From negge@dgql.org Thu Nov 1 07:06:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF6921F8CC5 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eMS+HixHR0ZB for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE66C21F8CD1 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id b25so1909127qca.31 for ; Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=AOkvCbGVb0P4zzq3erDbS0BSAtcwRIMsA9GyPB9ji0M=; b=mirkBRCbcZ3mx+JiRLgSrnMcdmXocATyhhwm5HBOFKTjbhX8se3V9jr/kcsScjyacG WYhZpewJVlGNtlvTbykUuYglAblbOkZi52fOn9qrxDeYU9WiX+EE8xSpRirTGLoKV8jj jw8UfI25on+8LpqRpMkTs9x67GTJVpC3aW3mKWq4iHX3MVS44MbgfLpkZb6kahgWiBP4 AAOUl5WwN0j1/GxY9vemYa6L1/0mXQAzOPzhvjRIDOQWdgNqq9yOSnBSZaCxE1jNQYiX 8nBLyKT9VGqaEk4mBgpCRx/Tj1DKUCfjJf0TOSef/orOV8yIJrp7THnd3SU5OgtHplai OvZQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.127.115 with SMTP id nf19mr32828021qeb.36.1351778795256; Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.98.36 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 07:06:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [207.244.165.201] In-Reply-To: <509185C7.5060901@mozilla.com> References: <507EEDB1.6030404@stpeter.im> <50903B5B.1040600@stpeter.im> <20121030184410.2cncwld79ckg08ww@kizuka.merseine.nu> <509185C7.5060901@mozilla.com> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:06:35 -0400 Message-ID: From: Nathan Egge To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d58d2e7f9a704cd6f863d X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnalXspiFazylSfuUeTiTuBU3r2TRvOXksOUsRQnpTxKbyb1g8HbmxzeglOmsFdOpAS8But Subject: Re: [video-codec] videocodec coordination X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:06:36 -0000 --047d7b5d58d2e7f9a704cd6f863d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This works for me as well. On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > Works for me too. > > On 12-10-30 07:30 PM, Adrian Grange wrote: > > Monday breakfast works for me. > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Timothy B. Terriberry > > > wrote: > > > > Peter Saint-Andre > > > wrote: > > > > Breakfast on Monday works for me. > > > > > > It works for me, also. > > > > > > And while we're chatting, I need to ask our presenters: how are > > those > > slides coming along? It would be very helpful if you could all > have > > > > > > I haven't started mine, but I should probably be able to put > > something together over the next 48ish hours. > > > > > --047d7b5d58d2e7f9a704cd6f863d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This works for me as well.

On Wed, Oct 31= , 2012 at 4:10 PM, Jean-Marc Valin <jmvalin@mozilla.com> w= rote:
Works for me too.

On 12-10-30 07:30 PM, Adrian Grange wrote:
> Monday breakfast works for me.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Timothy B. Terriberry
> <tterr= ibe@xiph.org <mailto:tterribe@xiph.org>> wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im <mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im>>
> =A0 =A0 wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Breakfast on Monday works for me.
>
>
> =A0 =A0 It works for me, also.
>
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 And while we're chatting, I need to ask our presen= ters: how are
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 those
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 slides coming along? It would be very helpful if you c= ould all have
>
>
> =A0 =A0 I haven't started mine, but I should probably be able to p= ut
> =A0 =A0 something together over the next 48ish hours.
>
>

--047d7b5d58d2e7f9a704cd6f863d-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Thu Nov 1 08:20:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE09E21F8E00 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.222, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YfAZjq05o2YR for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A4F21F8E03 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [64.101.72.26] (unknown [64.101.72.26]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F06234011B; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <50929348.8090003@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:20:40 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Egge References: <507EEDB1.6030404@stpeter.im> <50903B5B.1040600@stpeter.im> <20121030184410.2cncwld79ckg08ww@kizuka.merseine.nu> <509185C7.5060901@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [video-codec] videocodec coordination X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 15:20:44 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nathan, I think you sent this message to the list in error. Mary and I set up a time to chat with the BoF presenters so we can make sure they have their slides done, understand how BoFs function (since some of them are new to the IETF), etc. This is not a general chat for anyone and everyone who is interested in the topic -- that's what the BoF is for. :) Sorry about the noise! Peter On 11/1/12 8:06 AM, Nathan Egge wrote: > This works for me as well. > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Jean-Marc Valin > > wrote: > > Works for me too. > > On 12-10-30 07:30 PM, Adrian Grange wrote: >> Monday breakfast works for me. >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Timothy B. Terriberry >> > >> wrote: >> >> Peter Saint-Andre >> >> wrote: >> >> Breakfast on Monday works for me. >> >> >> It works for me, also. >> >> >> And while we're chatting, I need to ask our presenters: > how are >> those slides coming along? It would be very helpful if you could > all have >> >> >> I haven't started mine, but I should probably be able to put >> something together over the next 48ish hours. >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCSk0gACgkQNL8k5A2w/vyNrwCdFsf7gRc1ZK7Ns9Z+CRqvMcFq pSAAoMF2iOPLLLT7p6BWbEJUr4AEzErE =Z8/D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fluffy@cisco.com Sun Nov 4 15:47:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5971F21F87F7 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iMM3I4OvNhoC for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78A621F8707 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=737; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352072858; x=1353282458; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=k4rcJ/AcpZCLwM3/nVF2Ibgj+ouTGi+gNuET8eAr3xM=; b=Lc/DYLZClao3JYVxfeeOtMYJTlGax73FMLLsZj6cHF/14oHiY7QEsnuc KcrBsQT4BYiTQrBEzsczIVsJA/15JQALonGTeUiWYWLVaKNn6dC2I3twD 10t0mR/ZaVJ/HhpitMANrkV6e+slvWnOJVbBU2OUoHtOK2U9UeiyQOzVB I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlMFAHr9llCtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABDhVC9aoEIgh4BAQEDARIBJ0QLAgEIIhQQMiUCBBMIGodiBplQnwmMAYVbYQOkVIFrgm+CGQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,712,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="135682104" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2012 23:47:38 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com [173.36.12.77]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA4NlcV1008066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 23:47:38 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.217]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:47:38 -0600 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHNuubFGywIucR2FESNOo0Is1Bzbg== Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 23:47:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.91.211] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19338.004 x-tm-as-result: No--31.290200-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [video-codec] Proposed charter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 23:47:39 -0000 On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry wrote= : > 3. Specification of a codec that meets the agreed-upon requirements, in > the form of an Internet-Draft that defines the codec algorithm along > with source code for a reference implementation. The text description > of the codec shall describe the mandatory, recommended, and optional > portions of the encoder and decoder. It is envisioned that this dappropri= ateocument > shall be a Proposed Standard document. So of course I like the ice of an open source reference implementations, bu= t is there any reasons it needs to be in this RFC? I think that will lead t= o lots of problems of how to update the reference implementation.=20 From fluffy@cisco.com Sun Nov 4 15:47:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94AC221F8807 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KUQ-akXAGXWy for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D95521F8806 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=662; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352072862; x=1353282462; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=C1t3RG8kPejCyzVTzIm13mmAAP0wFTPtZLlAzH3TNs8=; b=KnB6s+KinSoq+2POX5m6Z3iKMzBSS22YireOKhSura7HyUPMyD9cIyqZ +7wf7KqYYy0vwAMv3TM4qHqRSUa/ZeyvHuMri/GUh29frZESAIMWxX6Ze 24GikLJ9td00+cw9zyjrY6SHt3Z97+FEHzh+JUsGClTu3anGRuo4S1clx M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlMFAHr9llCtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABDhVC9aoEIgh4BAQEDARIBJ0QLAgEIIhQQMiUCBAoJCBqHYgaZUJ8JjAEghTthA6RUgWuCb4FcPQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,712,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="138718101" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2012 23:47:41 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA4Nlfst015543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 23:47:41 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.217]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:47:41 -0600 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHNuubHGywIucR2FESNOo0Is1Bzbg== Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 23:47:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.91.211] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19338.004 x-tm-as-result: No--32.324400-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <06961F8C2D276D4CBD63C6B53FA67FCA@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [video-codec] Proposed charter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 23:47:42 -0000 On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry wrote= : > 4. Specification of a storage format for non-interactive (HTTP) > streaming or file transfer of the codec. It is envisioned that this > document shall be a Proposed Standard document. I think I would prefer to see this say something a little more specific lik= e do a storage format appropriate for use with DASH. If folks want to propo= se something other than DASH, sure, replace DASH with whatever, but my poin= t is, I don't want this WG to be charter to do a DASH equivalent just as on= e of the sides topics. That is enough work it would need it's own WG.=20 From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 4 21:05:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B63E421F88D4 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:05:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5oXKtrsuH2u2 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2A321F88C1 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.24] (unknown [50.73.80.245]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD7824012A; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:08:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <50974901.4000800@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 00:05:05 -0500 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" References: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Proposed charter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 05:05:08 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/4/12 6:47 PM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > > On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry > wrote: > >> 4. Specification of a storage format for non-interactive (HTTP) >> streaming or file transfer of the codec. It is envisioned that >> this document shall be a Proposed Standard document. > > I think I would prefer to see this say something a little more > specific like do a storage format appropriate for use with DASH. > If folks want to propose something other than DASH, sure, replace > DASH with whatever, but my point is, I don't want this WG to be > charter to do a DASH equivalent just as one of the sides topics. > That is enough work it would need it's own WG. Given the proposed use cases, I would have expected to see something about packetization rather than storage; but we can discuss in the BoF tomorrow if there's time, or on the list if not. Peter (*not* as BoF co-chair) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCXSQEACgkQNL8k5A2w/vy57wCePeUxxHHdYIUXLFXRqPE+qDtN 17QAoKhE7oSQ85TgYkEo3GjAdzrfJ3CJ =Yuyi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Nov 5 07:35:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF4721F96EA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5B8Bqgh3cghu for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC6421F84DE for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.129.84.156] (unknown [130.129.84.156]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A7014010C for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:38:20 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5097DC8F.0@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:34:39 -0500 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [video-codec] updated agenda X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:35:58 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Based on a chat with the presenters this morning, we've changed the order of technical presentations slights so that Time Domain Lapped Transforms (Nathan Egge) will go before Pyramid Vector Quantization (Jean-Marc Valin). http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/85/agenda-85-videocodec.html Also, all the slides for all presentations have been uploaded, with the exception of Cullen's. We're hoping to receive his soon. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/85/materials.html#wg-videocodec Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCX3I8ACgkQNL8k5A2w/vyfjgCePxkCyp7/29crjjxdo+rMPfm+ 4fcAoPPjeI8dhu6X51PzmSiy8lVLzApN =LXsv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From abegen@cisco.com Mon Nov 5 07:45:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2C321F87DC for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MIhRVhEbLOjU for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CD421F84DB for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:45:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1988; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352130339; x=1353339939; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=/mNbdmoY4Me//7u6j2U5HDh9uCxP/a5GbB9uJrebG3E=; b=eVfetqibL+DPaCLtRs+nqE5J5+/Ymw9a8E5f0zBojI372JrdKDHprKvH mvi1PPogmmsQrrNaFhjihnMdfMYbXw/pWSTfLG3/tyU0geKVft4xZhi24 5mxIhx2hRrj4SCZxjmEr+JyaYWwlW41vNGhXsoGE7233Fg+GugBcJqzUa s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAOzdl1CtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABEgmzAToEIgh4BAQEDARIBJ0sGAQgRAwECCxRCHQgCBAEJCQgah2IGAZp6n2qMASCFO2EDpFSBa4JvgVwfHg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,715,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="138918452" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2012 15:45:38 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA5FjcDC003629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:45:38 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:45:38 -0600 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHNu2SvGywIucR2FESNOo0Is1Bzbpfbxv0A Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:45:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [10.86.245.252] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19340.004 x-tm-as-result: No--43.788100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8F162F8791BB0C458C69719B36265105@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [video-codec] Proposed charter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:45:40 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Cullen Jennings Date: Monday, November 5, 2012 10:48 AM To: "Ali C. Begen" Subject: Fwd: [video-codec] Proposed charter > > >Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Cullen Jennings >> Subject: Re: [video-codec] Proposed charter >> Date: November 4, 2012 6:50:04 PM EST >> To: >>=20 >>=20 >> On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry >>wrote: >>=20 >>> 4. Specification of a storage format for non-interactive (HTTP) >>> streaming or file transfer of the codec. It is envisioned that this >>> document shall be a Proposed Standard document. >>=20 >> I think I would prefer to see this say something a little more specific >>like do a storage format appropriate for use with DASH. If folks want to >>propose something other than DASH, I think recording an rtcweb session using this new codec for a later playback is a legitimate use case. And using HTTP streaming (like DASH) for that purpose is perfectly fine. FYI, DASH is not codec dependent since the decoder components are outside the dash client. But, the DASH formats for both media content and its metadata are (already) defined in MPEG. This WG, if formed, should not define a new format but should rather make sure that they follow the existing formats. This will help keep everyone sane. Personally, I would much prefer that DASH's ISO-BMFF based formats to be followed for this purpose in this WG. The MPEG2-TS based formats are obsolete, complex to maintain, enhance and implement. >> sure, replace DASH with whatever, but my point is, I don't want this WG >>to be charter to do a DASH equivalent just as one of the sides topics. >>That is enough work it would need it's own WG. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 Agreed. But, if http streaming is targeted, DASH is a good candidate and much of the needed work is already complete. -acbegen > From harald@alvestrand.no Mon Nov 5 07:46:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC9921F867D for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:46:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.123 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.123 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zzynFBHjbXe2 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3AF21F87AA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3008539E197 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZEWQhMVm5Cs7 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:ed78:3a9f:6634:b011] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:ed78:3a9f:6634:b011]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4414139E091 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:46:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5097DF54.20401@alvestrand.no> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:46:28 +0100 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121011 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: video-codec@ietf.org References: <5032B6F5.7030402@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:46:40 -0000 On 11/05/2012 12:47 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: > >> 4. Specification of a storage format for non-interactive (HTTP) >> streaming or file transfer of the codec. It is envisioned that this >> document shall be a Proposed Standard document. > I think I would prefer to see this say something a little more specific like do a storage format appropriate for use with DASH. If folks want to propose something other than DASH, sure, replace DASH with whatever, but my point is, I don't want this WG to be charter to do a DASH equivalent just as one of the sides topics. That is enough work it would need it's own WG. > should we say that it needs to have a storage form that can be chunked, stored and reconstructed from chunks? I think that is the requirement to fit into DASH, and also for things like the MediaSource API in W3C; with some more constraints on what "chunking" means, it's probably also good enough to fit into Matroska and Ogg. (whether chunks are measured in milliseconds or 10s-of-seconds is another discussion topic, and more fit for discussing the format draft than for discussing the charter.) From abegen@cisco.com Mon Nov 5 07:56:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB7B21F88EC for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:56:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mi4FQbUiSB14 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EFCF21F8879 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:56:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2218; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352130967; x=1353340567; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=oWNgFdro7Ib4aHjfX30bbZjc+Sbl/Twr3MlOsCHQJTM=; b=Ht1i7I58Bun1SPNwXunHuUb2TKZlzH+wL2dG/ha4BUomuzWgLHxKpe8R 2z/CWBp7BubkrynXVIOnIlmSsy7sbR0Rcrb7MFRGqADrV+TENLrNFqQqa swtFC8v2MubYN/EihzgxoBMkpH6ftqWmwVGy2gOgv+7oLbXvlCFdnkb/w g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFADvhl1CtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABEgmzAT4EIgh4BAQEEAQEBDwEnNBcGAQgRAwECAQoUNwsdCAIEAQkJCBqHaAEKmwefagSMASCFO2EDpFSBa4JvgVwfHg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,715,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="138928508" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2012 15:55:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA5FtxZS003703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:55:59 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:55:59 -0600 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: Harald Alvestrand , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) Thread-Index: AQHNu2zCd3g8s8763UOLsAWGakbei5fbyc+A Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:55:58 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5097DF54.20401@alvestrand.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [10.86.245.252] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19340.004 x-tm-as-result: No--47.268800-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <80C98AB97F15E341B82DC7AB2BCE180D@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:56:08 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: "harald@alvestrand.no" Date: Monday, November 5, 2012 11:46 AM To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) >On 11/05/2012 12:47 AM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: >> On Aug 20, 2012, at 18:15 , Timothy B. Terriberry >>wrote: >> >>> 4. Specification of a storage format for non-interactive (HTTP) >>> streaming or file transfer of the codec. It is envisioned that this >>> document shall be a Proposed Standard document. >> I think I would prefer to see this say something a little more specific >>like do a storage format appropriate for use with DASH. If folks want to >>propose something other than DASH, sure, replace DASH with whatever, but >>my point is, I don't want this WG to be charter to do a DASH equivalent >>just as one of the sides topics. That is enough work it would need it's >>own WG. >> >should we say that it needs to have a storage form that can be chunked, >stored and reconstructed from chunks? If you want http streaming support, rather than a simple progressive download session, it has to be chunked anyway. Maybe the charter should actually clarify whether we need just progressive download support or a bit more advanced streaming support. > >I think that is the requirement to fit into DASH, and also for things >like the MediaSource API in W3C; with some more constraints on what >"chunking" means, it's probably also good enough to fit into Matroska >and Ogg. Could be, but see above. Chunking or not chunking is fundamental question regardless of you want dash support or not. > >(whether chunks are measured in milliseconds or 10s-of-seconds is >another discussion topic, and more fit for discussing the format draft >than for discussing the charter.) Sure, that is something dependent on the desired coding and storage efficiency, playback capabilities and things like that. Not specifically a charter level discussion. > > > >_______________________________________________ >video-codec mailing list >video-codec@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From giles@mozilla.com Mon Nov 5 09:46:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1DF321F843D for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VnrDw84LemCg for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38ED321F843F for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glaucomys.local (unknown [64.213.70.194]) (Authenticated sender: rgiles@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE167F260A; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:46:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5097FB85.8060105@mozilla.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 09:46:45 -0800 From: Ralph Giles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Harald Alvestrand , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:46:47 -0000 On 12-11-05 7:55 AM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > If you want http streaming support, rather than a simple progressive > download session, it has to be chunked anyway. Maybe the charter should > actually clarify whether we need just progressive download support or a > bit more advanced streaming support. Can you elaborate on the requirement you're proposing here? HTTP streaming, in the sense that media can be encoded and sent out in a single pass, works fine with WebM and Ogg containers. I've heard chunking into discrete files is necessary for some CDN-based delivery schemes, because the CDN won't pipeline file delivery. Is that what you're referring to? -r From abegen@cisco.com Mon Nov 5 10:04:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6079321F84BA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:04:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UvVVCxViHQl3 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7423121F84AB for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:04:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1730; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352138691; x=1353348291; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=IHvN5g23oaRpBMw9Ha1uHf8/yikzxH4ZUTyqucpV/Po=; b=E6egcfdDxCLBrXt2hbd9HqWzISVJWDFObzlb3nxn3ZY+l69klxq6Nqrh 1JN4SCDWyJZaejibS1nQrID6I3kqvWFUhzaNlXM0eNj1O9P5maOYznPlQ w832RIQ/Ehyee1jK9xyhbjYqz1kvcXT0DnZV+5aXnVWpmt8AAxODW1J62 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAEz+l1CtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABEgmzARoEIgh4BAQEEEgEnPwwGAQgRAwECAQoUQh0IAgQOBQgah2gBmwigAYwBIIU7YQOkVIFrgm+BXB8e X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,715,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="138980874" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2012 18:04:51 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com [173.37.183.89]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA5I4ov8026412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:04:50 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([173.37.183.89]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:04:50 -0600 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: Ralph Giles Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) Thread-Index: AQHNu2zCd3g8s8763UOLsAWGakbei5fbyc+AgAAe94CAAAULAA== Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:04:50 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5097FB85.8060105@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [10.86.254.82] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19340.004 x-tm-as-result: No--41.393200-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Harald Alvestrand , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:04:55 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Giles Date: Monday, November 5, 2012 1:46 PM To: "Ali C. Begen" Cc: "harald@alvestrand.no" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) >On 12-11-05 7:55 AM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > >> If you want http streaming support, rather than a simple progressive >> download session, it has to be chunked anyway. Maybe the charter should >> actually clarify whether we need just progressive download support or a >> bit more advanced streaming support. > >Can you elaborate on the requirement you're proposing here? HTTP I am not proposing any requirement. Just thought it would be nice for the charter to clarify this bullet. If you want simple progressive download, you just need a file format like a container that can use with the new codec. But, if you want a streaming functionality with trick modes, etc., the format has to support chunkability somehow. The file that holds the content on the server could be one huge file or several smaller files where each file holds one or more chunks. Dash really does not care about that. IOW, chunking does not have to be physical chunking. It could be all "virtual". >streaming, in the sense that media can be encoded and sent out in a >single pass, works fine with WebM and Ogg containers. Sure. > >I've heard chunking into discrete files is necessary for some CDN-based >delivery schemes, because the CDN won't pipeline file delivery. Is that Correct.=20 >what you're referring to? Nope. I hope what I meant is clear now from above. -acbeen > > -r > From giles@mozilla.com Mon Nov 5 10:51:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F7521F88C1 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:51:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DC2EJa21athQ for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0676921F87E4 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glaucomys.local (unknown [64.213.70.194]) (Authenticated sender: rgiles@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6B8DF2627; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:51:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50980ABB.6030001@mozilla.com> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:51:39 -0800 From: Ralph Giles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Harald Alvestrand , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 18:51:41 -0000 On 12-11-05 10:04 AM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > The file that holds the content on the server could be one huge file or > several smaller files where each file holds one or more chunks. Dash > really does not care about that. IOW, chunking does not have to be > physical chunking. It could be all "virtual". Ok, thanks for clarifying. I don't think this needs to be in the charter, although I have no objection to Harald's suggested wording change. This should certainly be part of the requirements or technical discussion when writing storage format drafts. Defining a common format for on-disk and http delivery is important for interoperability. Objective 3 of the charter covers packet-based transmission via RTP, but the corresponding payload draft may be primarily discussed in other areas of the IETF, like avt. That's not obviously the case for a storage format, so it's helpful to have a separate deliverable for this in the videocodec charter. -r From abegen@cisco.com Mon Nov 5 11:07:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A45421F886D for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:07:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3TPAEreXzEqV for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4492D21F8884 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:07:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1518; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1352142462; x=1353352062; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=8O7s6dR6V/JMP0YH1a4B8CGL+WMvCECXzcqFGQouk50=; b=cvSyPw1f9PyyHRaTuxVXvu+kNHufE4UVjfc6yPrViy6tGfs5wIooa8p7 JVguEbNeEJRFEKWzpZbka4buKmbwjxYtWTv+kjxBFuXEihBGj39A52p8n 2RWgGGbe988MH3biqQZOhCPKayMCeMI6XXSlxSkd6V+TUdSlUExn8DYL6 Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAIsNmFCtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABEgmzASIEIgh4BAQEEEgEnPwwGAQgRAwECAQoUQh0IAgQOBQgah2gBmn6gCYwBIIU7YQOkVIFrgm+BXAgXHg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,716,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="138782880" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2012 19:07:42 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qA5J7fkU016168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:07:41 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([fe80::747b:83e1:9755:d453]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:07:41 -0600 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: Ralph Giles Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) Thread-Index: AQHNu2zCd3g8s8763UOLsAWGakbei5fbyc+AgAAe94CAAAULAIAADReAgAAEeAA= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:07:41 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <50980ABB.6030001@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 x-originating-ip: [10.86.254.82] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19340.004 x-tm-as-result: No--46.395000-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5110EC987C1C9B4590B551A999E52D01@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Harald Alvestrand , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:07:43 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Giles Date: Monday, November 5, 2012 2:51 PM To: "Ali C. Begen" Cc: "harald@alvestrand.no" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) >On 12-11-05 10:04 AM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > >> The file that holds the content on the server could be one huge file or >> several smaller files where each file holds one or more chunks. Dash >> really does not care about that. IOW, chunking does not have to be >> physical chunking. It could be all "virtual". > >Ok, thanks for clarifying. > >I don't think this needs to be in the charter, although I have no >objection to Harald's suggested wording change. This should certainly be >part of the requirements or technical discussion when writing storage >format drafts. Well, I just commented on Cullen's email which was commenting on something in the charter. If it were not there, I would not shout ;) > >Defining a common format for on-disk and http delivery is important for >interoperability. Objective 3 of the charter covers packet-based >transmission via RTP, but the corresponding payload draft may be >primarily discussed in other areas of the IETF, like avt. That's not Yeah, I happen to co-chair the payload wg. >obviously the case for a storage format, so it's helpful to have a >separate deliverable for this in the videocodec charter. > > -r From tterribe@xiph.org Mon Nov 5 11:12:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B7721F845E for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:12:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AdsNBj4MGMuj for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9EBC21F8451 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from kizuka.merseine.nu (c-69-181-137-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.137.38]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0323F2560 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by kizuka.merseine.nu (Postfix, from userid 81) id 06D0375C02F; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:12:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20121105141219.3gsn3tlmaskw0oww@kizuka.merseine.nu> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:12:19 -0500 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" To: video-codec@ietf.org References: <50980ABB.6030001@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <50980ABB.6030001@mozilla.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) Subject: Re: [video-codec] Storage format (Re: Proposed charter) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:12:23 -0000 Ralph Giles wrote: > primarily discussed in other areas of the IETF, like avt. That's not > obviously the case for a storage format, so it's helpful to have a > separate deliverable for this in the videocodec charter. Right. This item was primarily there to justify something like the =20 current draft-terriberry-oggopus being discussed in the codec WG. Such =20 a deliverable is needed to allow Opus to be served in the HTML5 =20