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From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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To: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120110135951.0cb505f0@elandnews.com> <4F0CEF1E.1080303@gondrom.org> <alpine.OSX.2.02.1201110923050.25690@mac-allocchio3.elettra.trieste.it> <4F0DB93B.8030806@dcrocker.net> <4F0E40B3.9090408@gondrom.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20120111222251.0782c998@elandnews.com> <4F0E92F9.30402@gondrom.org>
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On 1/11/2012 11:59 PM, Tobias Gondrom wrote:
> But, if I may say so: actually I don't like the idea that you as the coordinator
> need to send a reminder if you don't get an ACK from the reviewer. That creates
> a lot of extra work on your end.
> The best default should be that the assigned review will be done until the
> deadline (of course as long as that deadline is something reasonable >72hours)
> unless the reviewer sends a deny (of course within lets say 72hours).


Good thing we are all in the communication protocol business and, therefore, all 
know the fundamental weakness in an open-loop control mechanisms.  Positive acks 
and retries are your friend.


d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

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Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2012 11:41:35 -0800
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References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120110135951.0cb505f0@elandnews.com> <4F0CEF1E.1080303@gondrom.org> <alpine.OSX.2.02.1201110923050.25690@mac-allocchio3.elettra.trieste.it> <4F0DB93B.8030806@dcrocker.net> <4F0E40B3.9090408@gondrom.org>
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On 1/11/2012 6:08 PM, Tobias Gondrom wrote:
> On 12/01/12 00:30, Dave CROCKER wrote:
> Maybe before I start, let me re-iterate, I have no strong preferences, only
> thought the sec-dir approach might be beneficial for the team. So on my account
> we can also keep things as they are.
> In the end it boils down to your work style: some prefer to read one email with
> a list which contains your name and assignment or scan a list of emails for some
> that may be relevant for you. Personally I prefer the first, but can equally see
> why others may prefer the latter.


The one-email approach imposes extra load on the administrator, to aggregate 
things.  It also means that the recipient does not have a transactional unit 
equal to a single review.  Whereas having notices be per-review still allows the 
recipient to do aggregation (automatically with a filter) into a separate folder.

At the meta-level, advocacy for an approach should consider downsides, or at 
least ask about them.  I believe the claimed downside for the one message per 
review model is that it has more pieces and is therefore harder to manage?  My 
suggestion about filtering into a separate folder is meant to attend to that.


d/
-- 

   Dave Crocker
   Brandenburg InternetWorking
   bbiw.net

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Subject: [appsdir] AppsDir reviews, and where to send them
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--20cf30363723f819dc04b8e11ce9
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When SM sends out review requests, he includes this in the instructions:

> The review should be sent to apps-discuss, the authors, the WG Chairs and
> document shepherd, if applicable.
...
> If your review recommends significant changes to a working-group document,
> you should also consider copying the working group's mailing list.

Please understand: I don't mean to pick on Henry at all... but his AppsDir
review of draft-ietf-oauth-v2 is a perfect example of when sending a copy
to the WG list would have been appropriate, and it wasn't sent there.
 Here's a good hint of that, from the review: there are four items labelled
as "major issues", including a concern about not requiring TLS (a major
security issue) and a concern that documentation of one aspect appears
insufficient, requiring an Intenet search to augment the documentation.

The doc editor responded to the review by forwarding it to the WG list.
 That was a good thing, but one result is that replies to the AppsDir
review don't go to the OAuth list, and replies on the OAuth list don't go
to apps-review or to the reviewer.  So any discussion becomes fragmented.

Again: I am NOT picking on any particular reviewer, but just using an
example.  I ask the reviewers to consider whether the WG should be seeing
your review.  In most cases where you're not just making editorial notes,
or just talking about very minor things, the answer is probably "Yes."

Barry

--20cf30363723f819dc04b8e11ce9
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When SM sends out review requests, he includes this in the instructions:<br=
><br>&gt; The review should be sent to apps-discuss, the authors, the WG Ch=
airs and<br>&gt; document shepherd, if applicable.<br>...<br>&gt; If your r=
eview recommends significant changes to a working-group document,<br>
&gt; you should also consider copying the working group&#39;s mailing list.=
<br><br>Please understand: I don&#39;t mean to pick on Henry at all... but =
his AppsDir review of draft-ietf-oauth-v2 is a perfect example of when send=
ing a copy to the WG list would have been appropriate, and it wasn&#39;t se=
nt there. =A0Here&#39;s a good hint of that, from the review: there are fou=
r items labelled as &quot;major issues&quot;, including a concern about not=
 requiring TLS (a major security issue) and a concern that documentation of=
 one aspect appears insufficient, requiring an Intenet search to augment th=
e documentation.<br>
<br>The doc editor responded to the review by forwarding it to the WG list.=
 =A0That was a good thing, but one result is that replies to the AppsDir re=
view don&#39;t go to the OAuth list, and replies on the OAuth list don&#39;=
t go to apps-review or to the reviewer. =A0So any discussion becomes fragme=
nted.<br>
<br>Again: I am NOT picking on any particular reviewer, but just using an e=
xample. =A0I ask the reviewers to consider whether the WG should be seeing =
your review. =A0In most cases where you&#39;re not just making editorial no=
tes, or just talking about very minor things, the answer is probably &quot;=
Yes.&quot;<br>
<br>Barry<br>

--20cf30363723f819dc04b8e11ce9--

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Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> writes:

> When SM sends out review requests, he includes this in the instructions:

>> ...
>> If your review recommends significant changes to a working-group document,
>> you should also consider copying the working group's mailing list.

Hmm, not in the email I got. . .

But I do remember seeing that somewhere in the past.  In this case I
followed the pro-forma on the appsdir page [1], which doesn't mention
the WG :-( Sorry about that!

I will try to have a look at the WG list tomorrow, but it may not be
until Wednesday. . .

ht

[1]
-- 
       Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
      10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440
                Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk
                       URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/
 [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam]

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 16:35:44 -0800
To: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson)
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Subject: Re: [appsdir] AppsDir reviews, and where to send them
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Hi Henry,
At 16:19 13-02-2012, Henry S. Thompson wrote:
>Hmm, not in the email I got. . .

I apologize for missing that.

As a reminder, I posted some notes about AppsDir reviews at 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview  If any 
information is missing, ambiguous, etc., please let me know.

Best regards,
-sm 


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>  :-( Sorry about that!

Again, stressing: I REALLY didn't mean to complain at anyone in particular,
and we REALLY appreciate the reviews!  Just happened to be a good sample
related to a WG that I'm involved with.

Barry

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&gt; =A0:-( Sorry about that!<br><br>Again, stressing: I REALLY didn&#39;t =
mean to complain at anyone in particular, and we REALLY appreciate the revi=
ews! =A0Just happened to be a good sample related to a WG that I&#39;m invo=
lved with.<br>
<br>Barry

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Subject: Re: [appsdir] AppsDir reviews, and where to send them
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I've done two Apps Dir reviews, and managed to screw up the recipient
list both times :)  -T

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrot=
e:
>> =A0:-( Sorry about that!
>
> Again, stressing: I REALLY didn't mean to complain at anyone in particula=
r,
> and we REALLY appreciate the reviews! =A0Just happened to be a good sampl=
e
> related to a WG that I'm involved with.
>
> Barry
> _______________________________________________
> appsdir mailing list
> appsdir@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/appsdir
>

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> I've done two Apps Dir reviews, and managed to screw up the recipient
> list both times :)  -T

He-he-he.......

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&gt; I&#39;ve done two Apps Dir reviews, and managed to screw up the recipi=
ent<br>&gt; list both times :) =A0-T<br><br>He-he-he.......

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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 19:48:55 -0800
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Subject: Re: [appsdir] Joint Review Experiment
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Hello,

Enrico Marocco, Alexey Melnikov performed a joint review.  The other 
joint review from Dave Cridland and Julian Reschke should be in soon.

Could everyone who had the option of a joint review assignment send 
me your comments off-list?  I would like to know the difficulties you 
encountered, why you opted for doing or not doing the joint review, 
etc.  I'll summarize the information without attribution for this mailing list.

Best regards,
-sm


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From: SM <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-10
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Hi Eliot,

[Bcc to appsdir]

Could you please review draft-desruisseaux-caldav-sched-10 before February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Best regards,
-sm


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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-reschke-http-status-308-05
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Hi Eran

[Bcc to appsdir]

Could you please review draft-reschke-http-status-308-05 by February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Best regards,
-sm


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Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:18:35 -0800
To: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
From: SM <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-behave-64-analysis-05
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Hi Claudio,

[Bcc to appsdir]

Could you please review draft-ietf-behave-64-analysis-05 before 
February 27?  The IESG evaluation is on March 1.

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.  BTW, if you identify any issue, please 
consider copying the review to the WG mailing list.  Barry posted 
some comments about that at 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/appsdir/current/msg00772.html

Best regards,
-sm


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Hello,

I'll review draft-ietf-behave-64-analysis-05 as Claudio is on vacation.

Regards,
-sm


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On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, SM wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'll review draft-ietf-behave-64-analysis-05 as Claudio is on vacation.

thanks S. !

>
> Regards,
> -sm
>
> _______________________________________________
> appsdir mailing list
> appsdir@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/appsdir
>

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            PGP Key: http://www.cert.garr.it/PGP/keys.php3#ca

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To: appsdir@ietf.org
From: SM <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: Re: [appsdir] Joint Review Experiment
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Hello,

First of all I would like to thank the persons who provided feedback 
on the Joint Review Experiment.  There were two reviews assigned as 
joint reviews.  One of them went smoothly and the other didn't.  Some 
reviewers did not choose the option.  I did not ask why.

One of the main points was that it increases the workload by 30%.  As 
one of the unlisted objectives of AppsDir is not to make matters 
easier for the reviewers, I prefer not to pursue the experiment.  As 
usual, you can override me by commenting on this.

It was pointed out that it is to early to tell whether doing joint 
reviews will improve the quality of the reviews.  Another point was 
that it will help spread knowledge.  As much as I believe that it is 
a good thing, I am not comfortable asking anyone to do so.

Best regards,
-sm


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To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-garcia-shim6-applicability-03
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Hi Carsten,

{Bcc to appsdir]

Could you review draft-garcia-shim6-applicability-03 by February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


From sm@elandsys.com  Sat Feb 18 20:57:21 2012
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To: Joseph Yee <jyee@afilias.info>
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-08
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Hi Joseph,

{Bcc to appsdir]

Could you review draft-ietf-dnsext-rfc2671bis-edns0-08 by February 
29?  As there will be a revised I-D, please work from it.  I am 
sending the assignment early to take it off my list.

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


From sm@elandsys.com  Sat Feb 18 21:01:17 2012
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-pkix-cmp-transport-protocols-16
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Hi Mark,

{Bcc to appsdir]

Could you review draft-ietf-pkix-cmp-transport-protocols-16 by February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


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To: Salvatore Loreto <salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com>
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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-reconfigure-rebind-09
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Hi Sal,

{Bcc to appsdir]

Could you review draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-reconfigure-rebind-09 by February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


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Subject: Re: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-reconfigure-rebind-09
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Hi Dave,

[Bcc to appsdir]

Can you do the review of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-reconfigure-rebind-09 
by February 29 as Sal is busy?

Tahnks,
-sm


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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-core-link-format-11
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Hi Julian

{Bcc to appsdir}

Could you please review draft-ietf-core-link-format-11 by February 28?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


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Subject: [appsdir] Request for review: draft-ietf-mile-template-02
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Hi Martin,

{Bcc to appsdir}

Could you please review draft-ietf-mile-template-02 by February 29?

Please see 
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/AppsDirReview for the 
administrative details.

Thanks,
-sm


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Subject: Re: [appsdir] Last Call: <draft-ietf-rmt-flute-revised-13.txt> (FLUTE - File Delivery over Unidirectional Transport) to Proposed Standard
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Hi Julian,
At 11:49 20-02-2012, Julian Reschke wrote:
>Here are a few comments, mainly of editorial nature:
>
>Below my review notes; just mechanical checks, and some checks on 
>the relation to HTTP header fields...:

Thanks for posting the notes.  For the record, this is related to the 
assignment posted at 
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/appsdir/current/msg00757.html

Best regards,
-sm 


From haibin.song@huawei.com  Mon Feb 20 18:24:08 2012
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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:24:08 +0000
From: Songhaibin <haibin.song@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [appsdir] Apps review of DECADE drafts
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Hi S. Moonesamy,

Just to let you know the updated DECADE problem statement draft is ready for your review.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-decade-problem-statement-05

BR,
-Haibin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S Moonesamy [mailto:sm+ietf@elandsys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:37 PM
> To: Richard Woundy; Songhaibin
> Cc: appsdir@ietf.org; David Harrington
> Subject: Apps review of DECADE drafts
> 
> Dear DECADE WG Chairs,
> 
> [Cc to Apps ADs and Responsible AD for their information]
> 
> I assigned the review of draft-ietf-decade-reqs to one of the members
> of the Applications Directorate and he pointed out that the document
> is not ready for review given the AD review (
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-decade-problem-statement/history/
> ).
> 
> The Application Directorate would like to review
> draft-ietf-decade-reqs and draft-ietf-decade-problem-statement
> simultaneously.  I would be grateful if you could contact me when
> these two drafts are ready for publiation.
> 
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy


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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 00:03:00 -0800
To: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
From: SM <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Cc: appsdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [appsdir] [OAUTH-WG] [apps-discuss] Apps Area review of draft-ietf-oauth-v2-threatmodel-01
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Hi Tim,
At 09:16 19-02-2012, Torsten Lodderstedt wrote:
>I just submitted the revised version of the OAuth 2.0 security 
>document 
>(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-threatmodel-02). 
>This revision should address the issues you raised in your AppsDir 
>review. We especially removed all normative language from the document.

Does the revised version address the issues you raised in your review 
( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss/current/msg04181.html )?

Best regards,
-sm 


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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:28:01 -0800
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
From: SM <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Cc: appsdir@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [appsdir] [apps-discuss] APPSDIR review of draft-ietf-core-link-format-11
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Hi Carsten, Julian,
At 12:13 28-02-2012, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>On Feb 28, 2012, at 20:49, Julian Reschke wrote:  A really good, 
>comprehensive review.
>
>Let me grab my implementer hat and pick three of the items.

The quality of the review and the friendly exchange exceeds AppsDir 
expectations. :-)

Thank you,
-sm 

