From stpeter@stpeter.im Thu Feb 18 15:40:49 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D703B3A7375 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:40:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.627 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.627 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JHQTTOkX6p7J for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E088E3A7248 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C077440337 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:42:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B7DD067.6050907@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:42:31 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "codec@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060202050506070406010505" Subject: [codec] pre-Anaheim conference call X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:40:49 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060202050506070406010505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike and I would like to hold a pre-Anaheim conference call (officially a "virtual interim meeting") to provide some orientation and discussion before IETF 77. Because there is a two-week lead time, the most likely dates seem to be March 9 or 10. A time like 19:00 UTC appears to work fairly well for people in Europe and North America. If you have strong preferences about dates and times, let us know. Otherwise we'll go ahead and schedule something tomorrow or Monday. Thanks! Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms060202050506070406010505 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB 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--------------ms060202050506070406010505-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Feb 19 13:24:17 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B223A6A8A for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:24:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nv59a1lBQ3tD for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4B83A6818 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from leavealone.cisco.com (72-163-0-129.cisco.com [72.163.0.129]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1873140337 for ; Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:26:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B7F01E9.8060800@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:26:01 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "codec@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030006090807080202000702" Subject: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:24:17 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030006090807080202000702 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Codec WG is provisionally scheduled to meet at IETF 77 on Monday, March 22 at 17:40 local time. The sessions scheduled at that time are: alto Application-Layer Traffic Optimization WG eai Email Address Internationalization WG csi Cga & Send maIntenance WG hiprg Host Identity Protocol netconf Network Configuration WG codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG forces Forwarding and Control Element Separation WG roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG If you see any schedule conflicts in that list, please contact the chairs= =2E Thanks! 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--------------ms030006090807080202000702-- From hoene@uni-tuebingen.de Sat Feb 20 00:43:28 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232CB3A81DC for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:43:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JSlj6nzvVYlY for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:43:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (mx06.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA6F3A81D7 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 00:43:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from hoeneT60 (dslb-094-216-247-099.pools.arcor-ip.net [94.216.247.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1K8j7a2023168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:45:13 +0100 From: "Christian Hoene" To: "'Peter Saint-Andre'" , References: <4B7F01E9.8060800@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B7F01E9.8060800@stpeter.im> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:45:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000301cab209$066bac50$134304f0$@de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acqxqi66kOnuArr7TqiR3dhDV9M/BAAXOW+w Content-Language: de X-AntiVirus: NOT checked by Avira MailGate (version: 3.0.0-4; host: mx06) Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:43:28 -0000 Hello, > codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it before. The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is used = for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, the charter = does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title like = "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and would avoid = misunderstandings. But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require = approval of the IESG, don't they? With best regards, Christian From stpeter@stpeter.im Sat Feb 20 19:23:32 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352D23A82BA for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:23:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eT4wbqDpVgz7 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4C33A7248 for ; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from squire.local (dsl-140-211.dynamic-dsl.frii.net [216.17.140.211]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0AB1A40337; Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:25:22 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B80A7A2.2090809@stpeter.im> Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:25:22 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Hoene References: <4B7F01E9.8060800@stpeter.im> <000301cab209$066bac50$134304f0$@de> In-Reply-To: <000301cab209$066bac50$134304f0$@de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090907070306000206060700" Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:23:32 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090907070306000206060700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: > Hello, >=20 >> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >=20 > Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it > before. >=20 > The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is > used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, the > charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title > like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and would > avoid misunderstandings. >=20 > But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require > approval of the IESG, don't they? I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I think.= Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms090907070306000206060700 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN 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(dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 711C940126; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:26:10 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B830481.70004@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:26:09 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IESG Secretary , "codec@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050206070104080205010106" Subject: [codec] Codec WG interim meeting X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:24:11 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050206070104080205010106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To help prepare for IETF 77, the Codec WG will hold a virtual interim meeting on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 at 18:00 UTC. Meeting logistics to follow on the codec@ietf.org list. Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms050206070104080205010106 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB 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--------------ms050206070104080205010106-- From mknappe@juniper.net Mon Feb 22 15:59:05 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D2728C4B4 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:59:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LbzIBfRLdljH for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og113.obsmtp.com (exprod7og113.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D584E28C4AC for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob113.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS4MauA/KtC/tOjkPokmEVMxKcSgVHTmn@postini.com; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:01:04 PST Received: from EMBX02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::18fe:d666:b43e:f97e]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:57:30 -0800 From: Michael Knappe To: Peter Saint-Andre , Christian Hoene Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:57:27 -0800 Thread-Topic: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim Thread-Index: AcqypYPeZWtVcs/KTCuM6qjel2AOzwBdUVCI Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B80A7A2.2090809@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.3.0.091002 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:59:05 -0000 Agreed that for those with codec development backgrounds, the term 'wideband' has a very specific 150-6800 Hz bandwidth / 16 kHz sampling meaning, but for many in the more general populace it will more generally represent 'better than PSTN quality'. As Peter has indicated below, it's likely too late to change the WG name, but suffice it to say we won't be limiting our discussion to 16 kHz wideband codecs. Cheers, Mike On 2/20/10 7:25 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: >> Hello, >>=20 >>> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >>=20 >> Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it >> before. >>=20 >> The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is >> used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, the >> charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title >> like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and would >> avoid misunderstandings. >>=20 >> But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require >> approval of the IESG, don't they? >=20 > I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I think. >=20 > Peter From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 13:38:12 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41703A830F for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:38:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ne9JO3JzkJA1 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBA928C0DF for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 842A740126 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:40:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B844B3E.4070205@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:40:14 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Codec WG X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050500000608010703050205" Subject: [codec] codec matrix X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:38:12 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050500000608010703050205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At the BoF in Stockholm, Jean-Marc Valin presented a basic matrix of information about a number of codecs that might be considered as input to the WG's efforts. Now that the WG has been formed, it might be useful to revisit that matrix. I propose that we create a wiki page about it her= e: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix Any volunteers to help out with that? Jean-Marc, perhaps you could start by providing the information from your original slides? Thanks! Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms050500000608010703050205 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB 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--------------ms050500000608010703050205-- From stewe@stewe.org Tue Feb 23 13:40:58 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C795828C13B for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:40:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JAUEFzVcGKyV for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from stewe.org (stewe.org [85.214.122.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8146828C0DE for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.4.123] (unverified [160.79.219.114]) by stewe.org (SurgeMail 3.9e) with ESMTP id 596231-1743317 for multiple; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:42:57 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.23.0.091001 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:42:51 -0500 From: Stephan Wenger To: Peter Saint-Andre , Codec WG Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [codec] codec matrix Thread-Index: Acq00SXeJskW3phWJk+6T+6g1w6SqA== In-Reply-To: <4B844B3E.4070205@stpeter.im> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 160.79.219.114 X-Authenticated-User: stewe@stewe.org Subject: Re: [codec] codec matrix X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:40:58 -0000 I would recommend to limit the information to technical terms and/or to received IETF IPR statements. Posting your interpretation of commercial terms (including license terms) could open you up to liabilities you don't want to have. Stephan On 2.23.2010 16:40 , "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > At the BoF in Stockholm, Jean-Marc Valin presented a basic matrix of > information about a number of codecs that might be considered as input > to the WG's efforts. Now that the WG has been formed, it might be useful > to revisit that matrix. I propose that we create a wiki page about it here: > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix > > Any volunteers to help out with that? Jean-Marc, perhaps you could start > by providing the information from your original slides? > > Thanks! > > Peter From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 13:42:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F7728C203 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:42:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.594 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.594 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q3RB4w2UKdQc for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8980C3A76C6 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E11E40126; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:44:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B844C2A.70206@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:44:10 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephan Wenger References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080409060505010706040608" Cc: Codec WG Subject: Re: [codec] codec matrix X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:42:09 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080409060505010706040608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/23/10 2:42 PM, Stephan Wenger wrote: > I would recommend to limit the information to technical terms and/or to= > received IETF IPR statements. Posting your interpretation of commercia= l > terms (including license terms) could open you up to liabilities you do= n't > want to have. Good point. I agree. That was a point of contention in Stockholm because it was so open to interpretation and misunderstanding. 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--------------ms080409060505010706040608-- From mknappe@juniper.net Tue Feb 23 13:47:38 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E047528C1E2 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RgMNF38jnyxg for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og119.obsmtp.com (exprod7og119.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0101928C126 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob119.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS4RNclNloJjlUPNJMbZ8H72dVpdSAYc0@postini.com; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:49:42 PST Received: from EMBX02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::18fe:d666:b43e:f97e]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:52 -0800 From: Michael Knappe To: "stewe@stewe.org" , "stpeter@stpeter.im" , "codec@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:47:51 -0800 Thread-Topic: [codec] codec matrix Thread-Index: Acq00SXeJskW3phWJk+6T+6g1w6SqAAALHSQ Message-ID: <05542EC42316164383B5180707A489EE1D0AA5F3D6@EMBX02-HQ.jnpr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [codec] codec matrix X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 21:47:39 -0000 Agreed, this should be limited to technical information, such as audio band= width, latencies (encode / decode), packet size(s), etc. Anyone have any thoughts on a reasonable computational complexity benchmark= or measurement methodology for comparison purposes? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: codec-bounces@ietf.org To: Peter Saint-Andre ; Codec WG Sent: Tue Feb 23 16:42:51 2010=0A= Subject: Re: [codec] codec matrix I would recommend to limit the information to technical terms and/or to received IETF IPR statements. Posting your interpretation of commercial terms (including license terms) could open you up to liabilities you don't want to have. Stephan On 2.23.2010 16:40 , "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > At the BoF in Stockholm, Jean-Marc Valin presented a basic matrix of > information about a number of codecs that might be considered as input > to the WG's efforts. Now that the WG has been formed, it might be useful > to revisit that matrix. I propose that we create a wiki page about it her= e: >=20 > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix >=20 > Any volunteers to help out with that? Jean-Marc, perhaps you could start > by providing the information from your original slides? >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Peter _______________________________________________ codec mailing list codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 14:29:37 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F15528C1C5 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.594 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.594 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CZTyW8-ZA8fS for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:29:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640EB28C126 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:29:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC72040126 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:31:38 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Codec WG X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050900010508010605050000" Subject: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:29:37 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050900010508010605050000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our charter [1] specifies that our first two deliverables shall be: 1. A set of Codec Standardization Guidelines that define the work processes of the working group. This document shall be Informational. 2. A set of technical Requirements. This document shall be Informational. The submission deadline [2] for -00 drafts before IETF 77 is fast approaching. Because it is desirable for these documents to be official WG items before our session at IETF 77, as Chairs we hereby issue a consensus call for: 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial version of the Technical Requirements. We emphasize that these will be *initial* versions and that the existing Internet-Drafts will be used as *starting points* for discussion and consensus-building within the WG. (In fact, the Chairs have some list feedback to incorporate before submitting these documents to the Secretariat, so the versions referenced above are not *exactly* what would be submitted, but they are close.) We also emphasize that if accepted as WG items these documents will initially be under the editorship of the Chairs (not the current document authors) until the Chairs have an opportunity to select official Document Editors for these Internet-Drafts as described in Section 6.3 of RFC 2418. The Chairs envision that Document Editors can be selected close in time to IETF 77. Please provide your feedback to this consensus call by the end of the day on Sunday, 2010-02-28, so that if accepted the Chairs can submit -00 versions of the relevant Internet-Drafts before the cut-off date (Monday, 2010-03-01 at 17:00 PST). Thank you. Peter Saint-Andre & Michael Knappe Co-chairs, Codec WG [1] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/charters [2] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2010.html#IETF77 [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [4]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 --------------ms050900010508010605050000 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q 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Dd7p0hRPouLqjk3KGtPPH72GyTl6rnvDiKp9xHpaJOA7Hb26Kmm7RzkrAZtJi3A0GaII1vTj hP0wfx1k1U/9H3MEXoPRwUxY2j1NtSeUZkuxzmGHqLp48FmHZcThdIlVWghAbLTLBWewUqzT M+zYQejS4WhCC5Le2Sy6uV4TKljcVoaCd9Q7/G2EsRb195AoO2NoEupyoIxGnhpzdxEx5dUt HidUBZQZ1GYaxgAAAAAAAA== --------------ms050900010508010605050000-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Tue Feb 23 14:51:52 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D27663A82A1 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:51:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.594 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.594 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7iZrCXONmQk for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90F63A833D for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BA9B040332 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:53:55 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B845C82.1080700@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:53:54 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: codec@ietf.org References: <4B844B3E.4070205@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B844B3E.4070205@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050009060308040609030307" Subject: Re: [codec] codec matrix X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:51:52 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050009060308040609030307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/23/10 2:40 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > At the BoF in Stockholm, Jean-Marc Valin presented a basic matrix of > information about a number of codecs that might be considered as input > to the WG's efforts. Now that the WG has been formed, it might be usefu= l > to revisit that matrix. I propose that we create a wiki page about it h= ere: >=20 > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/trac/wiki/CodecMatrix >=20 > Any volunteers to help out with that? Jean-Marc, perhaps you could star= t > by providing the information from your original slides? BTW, because it is *not* obvious, you can create a wiki account here: http://tools.ietf.org/newlogin Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms050009060308040609030307 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN 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wyb40 with SMTP id 40so1520217wyb.31 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:10:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=oMwjhmjQI2a838qcq4e1h6OQXs6lNU+pVhuUp0vBFDE=; b=aysqbcK9jP8AutibPzMqiscwvLt/tTcojPh+fqvfjJlVleYjlNbyuL9qNJC5KLyvZD gUWT64CNQ6lGqKJQr91S9vvQZn2LFH125QLsjljKZA8CHUjyWvfUsRf8VEsOR6AfcpsO JEB5E3o98+G48FfUIVxEqjqndEtFZVXBYDrFQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=VtsgSz9JpXLWBTmkQFJ0j3tLXskw8n9EVDeKY5mX74iOKkuS8mBNtr06dJBV4iIFeT P5mXY76KZcdxqkVWOnNbTaUsKo4Jeq7EiV47PfK1ctImWACVbckcr9hcVfkwB9vjQlcW RIEirHGaq6EB9vBVCc/A/DJv9HzrPdeM6GY54= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: metajack@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.182.10 with SMTP id n10mr243785wem.142.1267056610412; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:10:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:10:10 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: b776734c8ee8d291 Message-ID: <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> From: Jack Moffitt To: Codec WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:08:08 -0000 > 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version > of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. > > 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial > version of the Technical Requirements. +1 to both of these from me. jack. From jean-marc.valin@usherbrooke.ca Wed Feb 24 16:14:22 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1084128C284 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:14:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KNLzfmPZm+nh for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8060F28C125 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:14:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([70.81.109.112]) by VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KYD00IKZFFGMBB0@VL-MO-MR004.ip.videotron.ca> for codec@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:28 -0500 (EST) Message-id: <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:16:27 -0500 From: Jean-Marc Valin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 To: Jack Moffitt References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> In-reply-to: <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Codec WG Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:14:22 -0000 Hi, I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that I'm in favor of adopting these drafts as WG items :-) Jean-Marc On 2010-02-24 19:10, Jack Moffitt wrote: >> 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version >> of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. >> >> 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial >> version of the Technical Requirements. > > +1 to both of these from me. > > jack. > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > > From stewe@stewe.org Wed Feb 24 17:05:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173D428C2A9 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:05:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZJbRXm9S0iRT for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from stewe.org (stewe.org [85.214.122.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD38F28C2A8 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:05:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.19.131.176] (unverified [12.130.122.3]) by stewe.org (SurgeMail 3.9e) with ESMTP id 597656-1743317 for multiple; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:07:20 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.23.0.091001 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:05:19 -0500 From: Stephan Wenger To: Peter Saint-Andre , Codec WG Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements Thread-Index: Acq1tpkOr7xlZcYVxES0H7Zju9jKNw== In-Reply-To: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 12.130.122.3 X-Authenticated-User: stewe@stewe.org Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:05:15 -0000 Writing in a private capacity only. I'm supportive of the the adoption of the requirements draft. I'm not comfortable with the adoption of an substantially unchanged draft-valid-codec-guidelines-02. Perhaps it is better to allow for a few weeks of development of this draft, and check for consensus in Anaheim. There are two main reasons for my lack of comfort with this draft. First, I think it contains statements (especially in Section 5) that are plainly not adequate for a WG draft--though they may well be appropriate for an individual submission. And, second, a WG draft should reflect the WG consensus at a given time. Looking at the BOF-time mailing list discussions, I don't see many aspects of the draft that were undisputed. That goes not only for section 5, but also for some of the procedural stuff of sections 2, 3, and 4. Section 5 of this draft (as well as a few words here and there) goes considerably beyond the charter text and the IETF policy documents in describing the desire for an unencumbered codec. I believe that section 5 should be either removed or substantially reworded. It clearly indicates the preferences of the individual draft authors towards an unencumbered codec. That's ok for an individual draft. However, I have difficulty to see that this is WG consensus. It certainly was not BOF consensus, by any consensus count I can imagine. Further, on principle, I don't like selective citations as employed here. It may be adequate for an individual draft to employ this type of suggestive tactics, as an individual draft clearly represents the opinion (and the business interest!) of the authors. In a WG draft, that should not be the case. We have some text in the charter related to this IPR stuff that has received IESG blessing (not sure about community consensus, but never mind). My preference would be to stick very closely to the charter text, or leave the IPR nonsense out completely. I'm not absolutely certain that the procedural aspects of the draft adequately reflect the outcome of the discussions surrounding issues such as characterization (and need/lack of need for it), need for an implementation, and so on. The only area where I believe to recall consensus was to employ a collaborative model of standardization, instead of a shootout. I could go on and on, but I think I have written enough to justify my current objection to adopt this draft. Let's take our time with this one. Stephan P.s.: I have a couple of rather busy days coming up, but I will try to find the time for more detailed comments, critizisms, and suggested changes. On 2.23.2010 17:31 , "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: > Our charter [1] specifies that our first two deliverables shall be: > > 1. A set of Codec Standardization Guidelines that define the work > processes of the working group. This document shall be Informational. > > 2. A set of technical Requirements. This document shall be > Informational. > > The submission deadline [2] for -00 drafts before IETF 77 is fast > approaching. Because it is desirable for these documents to be official > WG items before our session at IETF 77, as Chairs we hereby issue a > consensus call for: > > 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version > of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. > > 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial > version of the Technical Requirements. > > We emphasize that these will be *initial* versions and that the existing > Internet-Drafts will be used as *starting points* for discussion and > consensus-building within the WG. (In fact, the Chairs have some list > feedback to incorporate before submitting these documents to the > Secretariat, so the versions referenced above are not *exactly* what > would be submitted, but they are close.) > > We also emphasize that if accepted as WG items these documents will > initially be under the editorship of the Chairs (not the current > document authors) until the Chairs have an opportunity to select > official Document Editors for these Internet-Drafts as described in > Section 6.3 of RFC 2418. The Chairs envision that Document Editors can > be selected close in time to IETF 77. > > Please provide your feedback to this consensus call by the end of the > day on Sunday, 2010-02-28, so that if accepted the Chairs can submit -00 > versions of the relevant Internet-Drafts before the cut-off date > (Monday, 2010-03-01 at 17:00 PST). > > Thank you. > > Peter Saint-Andre & Michael Knappe > Co-chairs, Codec WG > > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/charters > [2] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2010.html#IETF77 > [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 > [4]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 > > > > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec From koen.vos@skype.net Wed Feb 24 19:38:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5492028C12D for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:38:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uLUxEtXlZhr5 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.skype.net (mail.skype.net [212.187.172.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C7B3A8616 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.skype.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5B56064D5CA for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:40:25 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=skype.net; h=message-id :date:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=Cnn7fR2/t/f5 zaa7sBJaW8V1YQU=; b=EKr/MQwzVe2IsbdP78TlZCDFqPl+wFqW05yoY9Jgy/wC HITBuvVVkX0kwnu4tFXM4rwHi1XN+PZA1TRqsDk4tOtSg8M+q51PrMH7MRoA6tq7 wzXXh4hroZXFpKD0QVGx19vILG5aWk7jAXdfNqq2jV0/cLzl6XEDKRXimPqZFck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=skype.net; h=message-id:date:from :to:subject:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=mail; b=h3lyxO4bE/7ztVYPTRan mHAA1iuSuBHGX0GxQdZNTO6j0r9XnEuNMrugE59TRCyXv9tlah63C2H2VYNfLBFA qMadiXjuCeeG8GmR70sBlPqlJvxSTgZqnBS+FI1Jj3gzjJBe8yTflyz3/4bhwHSU GJHudG/MHsommaFdLtJWh1c= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7859860647ADC for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:40:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at dub-mail.skype.net Received: from mail.skype.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dub-mail.skype.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x6aI-1qhcMfw for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:40:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail.skype.net (Postfix, from userid 33) id A05336064C8B0; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:40:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 71.141.133.171 ([71.141.133.171]) by mail.skype.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0800 Message-ID: <20100224194024.13954qd46evr6jvs@mail.skype.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:40:24 -0800 From: Koen Vos To: codec@ietf.org References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.3.4) Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 03:38:19 -0000 I support accepting both drafts as WG items. koen. Quoting Peter Saint-Andre : > Our charter [1] specifies that our first two deliverables shall be: > > 1. A set of Codec Standardization Guidelines that define the work > processes of the working group. This document shall be Informational. > > 2. A set of technical Requirements. This document shall be > Informational. > > The submission deadline [2] for -00 drafts before IETF 77 is fast > approaching. Because it is desirable for these documents to be official > WG items before our session at IETF 77, as Chairs we hereby issue a > consensus call for: > > 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version > of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. > > 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial > version of the Technical Requirements. > > We emphasize that these will be *initial* versions and that the existing > Internet-Drafts will be used as *starting points* for discussion and > consensus-building within the WG. (In fact, the Chairs have some list > feedback to incorporate before submitting these documents to the > Secretariat, so the versions referenced above are not *exactly* what > would be submitted, but they are close.) > > We also emphasize that if accepted as WG items these documents will > initially be under the editorship of the Chairs (not the current > document authors) until the Chairs have an opportunity to select > official Document Editors for these Internet-Drafts as described in > Section 6.3 of RFC 2418. The Chairs envision that Document Editors can > be selected close in time to IETF 77. > > Please provide your feedback to this consensus call by the end of the > day on Sunday, 2010-02-28, so that if accepted the Chairs can submit -00 > versions of the relevant Internet-Drafts before the cut-off date > (Monday, 2010-03-01 at 17:00 PST). > > Thank you. > > Peter Saint-Andre & Michael Knappe > Co-chairs, Codec WG > > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/charters > [2] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2010.html#IETF77 > [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 > [4]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 > > > > From fluffy@cisco.com Wed Feb 24 20:44:27 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B1F3A8559 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:44:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.614 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.614 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBz6YCn+b8Z9 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0B83A8556 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:44:26 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-5.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAN6PhUurRN+J/2dsb2JhbACbFHOkEJhNhHIEgxY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,536,1262563200"; d="scan'208";a="156460971" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Feb 2010 04:46:36 +0000 Received: from dhcp-171-68-21-119.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-21-119.cisco.com [171.68.21.119]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o1P4kacS015809 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:46:36 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) From: Cullen Jennings In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:46:35 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> References: To: codec@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:44:27 -0000 The short name probably needs to stay at "codec" but if we were going to = change the long name (the "Internet Wideband Audio Codec" part, what = would be a good name? On Feb 22, 2010, at 15:57 , Michael Knappe wrote: > Agreed that for those with codec development backgrounds, the term > 'wideband' has a very specific 150-6800 Hz bandwidth / 16 kHz sampling > meaning, but for many in the more general populace it will more = generally > represent 'better than PSTN quality'. As Peter has indicated below, = it's > likely too late to change the WG name, but suffice it to say we won't = be > limiting our discussion to 16 kHz wideband codecs. >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Mike >=20 >=20 > On 2/20/10 7:25 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: >=20 >> On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: >>> Hello, >>>=20 >>>> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >>>=20 >>> Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it >>> before. >>>=20 >>> The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is >>> used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, = the >>> charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title >>> like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and = would >>> avoid misunderstandings. >>>=20 >>> But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require >>> approval of the IESG, don't they? >>=20 >> I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I = think. >>=20 >> Peter >=20 > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec From koen.vos@skype.net Wed Feb 24 20:51:41 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED7628C0ED for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:51:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dd6XAXIAS82c for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.skype.net (mail.skype.net [212.187.172.39]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6AE3A7F6A for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.skype.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B616064D5D4 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:53:49 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=skype.net; h=message-id :date:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=rnnCKb6Q2s9p a5yFa/u18qdSgxQ=; b=dF7Wm4cA/tn1vN4CElsdB/TNh7wbX94sDaxC/anRDoT8 i81MLHPmWwDmTJ+gNCWQYUahbKEUNjtJzEyAHo67kvHTkblqqyMSlxQTnR9OZEjW NDH55Fch8vBNl0q34JhPcIj3czR6dBw8GsPubRaLs8fivhy7vCXan4ASXZEp1XI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=skype.net; h=message-id:date:from :to:subject:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=mail; b=AeHHQxjoTYpu3i0R2E0g YMa4ICwv5oTwN5aeTKGWjG4tdXof7tl/OW7xQCJqo5/6MOt5lJwtPA5K0pJ3ltK9 snzsCA1w5e4SIJQHWfN+3l5foHH7D7hwexaFeuAhtttxq8QVCyoiXtFjOpm7Uah5 s447tnsLrA/NqwR1FWfGkls= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.skype.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302CC6064D1DA for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:53:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at dub-mail.skype.net Received: from mail.skype.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (dub-mail.skype.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fyxfPvHtWxO8 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: by mail.skype.net (Postfix, from userid 33) id 5037D6064C8A6; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:53:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 71.141.133.171 ([71.141.133.171]) by mail.skype.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:53:48 -0800 Message-ID: <20100224205348.18712c69c10fe5i4@mail.skype.net> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:53:48 -0800 From: Koen Vos To: codec@ietf.org References: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.3.4) Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:51:41 -0000 Perhaps emphasize targeting real-time communications, as opposed to streaming? For instance: "Internet Interactive Audio Codec"? koen. Quoting Cullen Jennings: > > The short name probably needs to stay at "codec" but if we were > going to change the long name (the "Internet Wideband Audio Codec" > part, what would be a good name? > > > On Feb 22, 2010, at 15:57 , Michael Knappe wrote: > >> Agreed that for those with codec development backgrounds, the term >> 'wideband' has a very specific 150-6800 Hz bandwidth / 16 kHz sampling >> meaning, but for many in the more general populace it will more generally >> represent 'better than PSTN quality'. As Peter has indicated below, it's >> likely too late to change the WG name, but suffice it to say we won't be >> limiting our discussion to 16 kHz wideband codecs. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Mike >> >> >> On 2/20/10 7:25 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: >> >>> On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>>> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >>>> >>>> Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it >>>> before. >>>> >>>> The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is >>>> used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, the >>>> charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title >>>> like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and would >>>> avoid misunderstandings. >>>> >>>> But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require >>>> approval of the IESG, don't they? >>> >>> I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I think. >>> >>> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > From jean-marc.valin@usherbrooke.ca Wed Feb 24 21:08:09 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CE928C253 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:08:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PESKHrstKXm1 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais.videotron.ca (relais.videotron.ca [24.201.245.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8035628C1CB for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:08:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Received: from [192.168.1.10] ([70.81.109.112]) by VL-MH-MR002.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-4.01 (built Aug 3 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KYD00CAMT15LSG0@VL-MH-MR002.ip.videotron.ca> for codec@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:10:17 -0500 (EST) Message-id: <4B860639.2050307@usherbrooke.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 00:10:17 -0500 From: Jean-Marc Valin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 To: Koen Vos References: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> <20100224205348.18712c69c10fe5i4@mail.skype.net> In-reply-to: <20100224205348.18712c69c10fe5i4@mail.skype.net> Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:08:09 -0000 On 2010-02-24 23:53, Koen Vos wrote: > Perhaps emphasize targeting real-time communications, as opposed to > streaming? > > For instance: "Internet Interactive Audio Codec"? I like that name too. Jean-Marc > koen. > > > Quoting Cullen Jennings: >> >> The short name probably needs to stay at "codec" but if we were going >> to change the long name (the "Internet Wideband Audio Codec" part, >> what would be a good name? >> >> >> On Feb 22, 2010, at 15:57 , Michael Knappe wrote: >> >>> Agreed that for those with codec development backgrounds, the term >>> 'wideband' has a very specific 150-6800 Hz bandwidth / 16 kHz sampling >>> meaning, but for many in the more general populace it will more >>> generally >>> represent 'better than PSTN quality'. As Peter has indicated below, it's >>> likely too late to change the WG name, but suffice it to say we won't be >>> limiting our discussion to 16 kHz wideband codecs. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> On 2/20/10 7:25 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>>> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >>>>> >>>>> Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it >>>>> before. >>>>> >>>>> The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is >>>>> used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, the >>>>> charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title >>>>> like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and would >>>>> avoid misunderstandings. >>>>> >>>>> But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require >>>>> approval of the IESG, don't they? >>>> >>>> I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I >>>> think. >>>> >>>> Peter >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> codec mailing list >>> codec@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >> > > > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > > From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Wed Feb 24 21:39:40 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E273A862D for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:39:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lhexQMBA48A6 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:39:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com (mail-fx0-f213.google.com [209.85.220.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531373A8626 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:39:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by fxm5 with SMTP id 5so6059247fxm.29 for ; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:references :in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:content-language:thread-index; bh=BoUxDY+boCNSOL/AoFCjXixVqtNlby9vejyd8tBChRQ=; b=JQNtWJs45V6gl5diX9Z1n+2fSA43JAFFxIoHloP6SG8PfvaqbaSg+p5Gl3KHTcloFt DsRB4O3vRKIl0p9nX6xgHKyDv6lEhhQQnf6ePqpl/eou+JYPGn67mAT1ecKB4ti/Shd0 B7rkuoFmXU0so+kb9AyxIr/o/s+qUGJozfNLw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:content-language :thread-index; b=LYAzfREqY6fLsLgbQLKabDHbBjshE7uaL7ygMCkNXKp7jXHyxsuAw+Zy116XuWuerZ Ws9Z+RW3PEaNJ49rq3wLkt4ElNNQoisYZMz0/PEoEEM1kOUBrUf0mQXe9owdvyafWEWy qSXaCtDiJCfxDm4THB7287naka63a0bY5316U= Received: by 10.223.6.150 with SMTP id 22mr723053faz.12.1267076505310; Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from windows8d787f9 (bzq-79-182-13-83.red.bezeqint.net [79.182.13.83]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 16sm4004956fxm.15.2010.02.24.21.41.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:41:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Peter Saint-Andre'" , "'Codec WG'" References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:41:55 +0200 Message-ID: <4b860d97.100db80a.51f6.12f3@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-language: en-us Thread-index: Acq01/x1VKbNq/ooS8qm4rh2eIB4jgBBCQRQ Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:39:40 -0000 Hi, I support the adoption of the requirements draft as a starting point. I = think that the first step afterwards is be to decide on the requirements = for one codec according to the charter in order to enable the group to = focus on the delivering the high quality audio codec as specified in the = objective section of the charter. As for the guideline draft. I suggest to first do some work to make it = in line with the charter. I think that the major issues are with section = 1 and 5 that were targeted to explain why to form a WG and express views = that are not in the charter. I suggest to have a new revision before = accepting it as a WG document. Roni Even > -----Original Message----- > From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Peter Saint-Andre > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:32 AM > To: Codec WG > Subject: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements >=20 > Our charter [1] specifies that our first two deliverables shall be: >=20 > 1. A set of Codec Standardization Guidelines that define the work > processes of the working group. This document shall be = Informational. >=20 > 2. A set of technical Requirements. This document shall be > Informational. >=20 > The submission deadline [2] for -00 drafts before IETF 77 is fast > approaching. Because it is desirable for these documents to be = official > WG items before our session at IETF 77, as Chairs we hereby issue a > consensus call for: >=20 > 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial = version > of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. >=20 > 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial > version of the Technical Requirements. >=20 > We emphasize that these will be *initial* versions and that the > existing Internet-Drafts will be used as *starting points* for > discussion and consensus-building within the WG. (In fact, the Chairs > have some list feedback to incorporate before submitting these > documents to the Secretariat, so the versions referenced above are not > *exactly* what would be submitted, but they are close.) >=20 > We also emphasize that if accepted as WG items these documents will > initially be under the editorship of the Chairs (not the current > document authors) until the Chairs have an opportunity to select > official Document Editors for these Internet-Drafts as described in > Section 6.3 of RFC 2418. The Chairs envision that Document Editors can > be selected close in time to IETF 77. >=20 > Please provide your feedback to this consensus call by the end of the > day on Sunday, 2010-02-28, so that if accepted the Chairs can submit - > 00 versions of the relevant Internet-Drafts before the cut-off date > (Monday, 2010-03-01 at 17:00 PST). >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Peter Saint-Andre & Michael Knappe > Co-chairs, Codec WG >=20 > [1] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/charters > [2] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2010.html#IETF77 > [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 > [4]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 >=20 >=20 From kpfleming@digium.com Thu Feb 25 06:49:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0908628C186 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:49:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.307 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.307 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8z8anmySnzBr for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.digium.com (mail.digium.com [216.207.245.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07D828C165 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.digium.internal ([10.24.55.203] helo=zimbra.hsv.digium.com) by mail.digium.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nkf3y-0001Zz-S8 for codec@ietf.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:51:38 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.hsv.digium.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB44AD8023 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:51:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from zimbra.hsv.digium.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.hsv.digium.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zi3fi+0znOZM for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:51:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.1.143] (207.47.17.71.static.nextweb.net [207.47.17.71]) by zimbra.hsv.digium.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80715D8021 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:51:38 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4B868E79.7040509@digium.com> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:51:37 -0800 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" Organization: Digium, Inc. User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20090817) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Codec WG References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> In-Reply-To: <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=05FB8DB2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:49:30 -0000 Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that I'm in favor of > adopting these drafts as WG items :-) I'm shocked! Wait, that's just because I'm still half-asleep :-) I too am in favor of these drafts being adopted. -- Kevin P. Fleming Digium, Inc. | Director of Software Technologies 445 Jan Davis Drive NW - Huntsville, AL 35806 - USA skype: kpfleming | jabber: kfleming@digium.com Check us out at www.digium.com & www.asterisk.org From brian@freeswitch.org Thu Feb 25 06:51:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0133428C123 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:51:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IXFb1KuNgTwH for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f191.google.com (mail-iw0-f191.google.com [209.85.223.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1296E28C122 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by iwn29 with SMTP id 29so4396828iwn.31 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.167.204 with SMTP id r12mr49084iby.31.1267109615185; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.26? ([76.251.181.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm1626711iwn.11.2010.02.25.06.53.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:53:34 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Brian West In-Reply-To: <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:53:29 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> To: Jean-Marc Valin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) Cc: Codec WG Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:51:29 -0000 I'm in favor of them also.=20 /b On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that I'm in favor of = adopting these drafts as WG items :-) >=20 > Jean-Marc From mknappe@juniper.net Thu Feb 25 08:17:15 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B125A28C33E for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:17:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zg7deidTmC-s for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og104.obsmtp.com (exprod7og104.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.161]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1981928C212 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob104.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS4ai+zlK/oBR/V9KSxIq/3GHFfBnbWsl@postini.com; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:19:25 PST Received: from EMBX02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::18fe:d666:b43e:f97e]) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::88f9:77fd:dfc:4d51%11]) with mapi; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:08:32 -0800 From: Michael Knappe To: Jean-Marc Valin , Koen Vos Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:08:29 -0800 Thread-Topic: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim Thread-Index: Acq12NScY74nLSC5T4GLdRNHMtNv8gAW/AyR Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4B860639.2050307@usherbrooke.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/13.3.0.091002 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:17:15 -0000 I like it too, 'interactive' covers several bases nicely. Mike On 2/24/10 9:10 PM, "Jean-Marc Valin" wrote: > On 2010-02-24 23:53, Koen Vos wrote: >> Perhaps emphasize targeting real-time communications, as opposed to >> streaming? >>=20 >> For instance: "Internet Interactive Audio Codec"? >=20 > I like that name too. >=20 > Jean-Marc >=20 >> koen. >>=20 >>=20 >> Quoting Cullen Jennings: >>>=20 >>> The short name probably needs to stay at "codec" but if we were going >>> to change the long name (the "Internet Wideband Audio Codec" part, >>> what would be a good name? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Feb 22, 2010, at 15:57 , Michael Knappe wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Agreed that for those with codec development backgrounds, the term >>>> 'wideband' has a very specific 150-6800 Hz bandwidth / 16 kHz sampling >>>> meaning, but for many in the more general populace it will more >>>> generally >>>> represent 'better than PSTN quality'. As Peter has indicated below, it= 's >>>> likely too late to change the WG name, but suffice it to say we won't = be >>>> limiting our discussion to 16 kHz wideband codecs. >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>>=20 >>>> Mike >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 2/20/10 7:25 PM, "Peter Saint-Andre" wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On 2/20/10 1:45 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> codec Internet Wideband Audio Codec WG >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Probably my comment comes weeks too late, but I never noticed it >>>>>> before. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The title of working group is somewhat misleading as "Wideband" is >>>>>> used for speech codecs working at a sampling rate of 16kHz. Also, th= e >>>>>> charter does not mention the word "wideband" at all. Maybe a title >>>>>> like "Internet Audio/Speech Codec WG" would be more fitting and woul= d >>>>>> avoid misunderstandings. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> But, I think, it is too late for those changes because they require >>>>>> approval of the IESG, don't they? >>>>>=20 >>>>> I don't like it much either, but it's too late to change it now, I >>>>> think. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Peter >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> codec mailing list >>>> codec@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> codec mailing list >>> codec@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>=20 >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec From stpeter@stpeter.im Thu Feb 25 09:29:06 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1776B28C182 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:29:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ej3SKRklrMHY for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E3728C1AE for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:29:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-201.cisco.com [64.101.72.201]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EEF5C40126 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:31:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4B86B3E2.10308@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 10:31:14 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.1.7) Gecko/20100111 Thunderbird/3.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: codec@ietf.org References: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> <20100224205348.18712c69c10fe5i4@mail.skype.net> <4B860639.2050307@usherbrooke.ca> In-Reply-To: <4B860639.2050307@usherbrooke.ca> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.0.1 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050008050909060603090109" Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:29:06 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050008050909060603090109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/24/10 10:10 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > On 2010-02-24 23:53, Koen Vos wrote: >> Perhaps emphasize targeting real-time communications, as opposed to >> streaming? >> >> For instance: "Internet Interactive Audio Codec"? >=20 > I like that name too. +1 (when it can be changed). Peter --=20 Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --------------ms050008050909060603090109 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIWnDCC B1cwggY/oAMCAQICAVUwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQK Ew1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBT aWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAzIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRl IENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0wOTA3MDYwMDAwMDFaFw0xMDA3MDYyMzU5NTlaMIHCMQswCQYDVQQG EwJVUzERMA8GA1UECBMIQ29sb3JhZG8xDzANBgNVBAcTBkRlbnZlcjEiMCAGA1UEChMZWE1Q UCBTdGFuZGFyZHMgRm91bmRhdGlvbjEsMCoGA1UECxMjU3RhcnRDb20gVHJ1c3RlZCBDZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSBNZW1iZXIxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlMSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdHBldGVyQHN0cGV0ZXIuaW0wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIB 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--------------ms050008050909060603090109-- From hoene@uni-tuebingen.de Thu Feb 25 09:53:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 301253A86F1 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:53:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K9k1uVkbUwZ8 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (mx06.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.3.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A32B3A86EF for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2010 09:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from hoeneT60 ([141.21.21.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id o1PHtSd9013385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:55:34 +0100 From: "Christian Hoene" To: "'Peter Saint-Andre'" , References: <1CC0375B-768B-428B-B75A-5922C636B91D@cisco.com> <20100224205348.18712c69c10fe5i4@mail.skype.net> <4B860639.2050307@usherbrooke.ca> <4B86B3E2.10308@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B86B3E2.10308@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:55:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001801cab643$ba3dd940$2eb98bc0$@de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acq2QF+CHKZGE0L3ToOuQHUvn2GZFgAA0Qcg Content-Language: de X-AntiVirus: NOT checked by Avira MailGate (version: 3.0.0-4; host: mx06) Subject: Re: [codec] provisional timeslot in Anaheim X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:53:29 -0000 > >> For instance: "Internet Interactive Audio Codec"? > > > > I like that name too. > > +1 (when it can be changed). +1 Christian From gmaxwell@juniper.net Fri Feb 26 12:07:29 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537083A883D for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:07:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r9szQpSM3eQJ for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from chip3mx62.psmtp.com (chip3mx62.psmtp.com [64.18.14.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337C13A883E for ; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by chip3ob116.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKS4gqh/Zu4STI2+qsFM47mbaOdtihwAt1@postini.com; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:09:44 PST Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::a124:1ab1:8e0b:f671%11]) with mapi; Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:04:36 -0800 From: Gregory Maxwell To: "codec@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 12:01:44 -0800 Thread-Topic: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements Thread-Index: Acq2KrDDV0BfQTw6TxyEbguXd71ZUAA89RiS Message-ID: References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:07:29 -0000 Brian West [brian@freeswitch.org] wrote: >On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: >> Hi, >> I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that I'm in favor of adop= ting these drafts as WG items :-) > I'm in favor of them also. I think this is a good idea. (I also agree that the "Internet Interactive Audio Codec" or "Interactive I= nternet Audio Codec" are fine names) From ron@debian.org Sat Feb 27 03:46:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3D728C123 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:46:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aOswxRYD5CBB for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net [150.101.137.143]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A5B28C117 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAE6UiEt5LTdY/2dsb2JhbACbG3S5T4R7BA Received: from ppp121-45-55-88.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net (HELO audi.shelbyville.oz) ([121.45.55.88]) by ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 27 Feb 2010 22:19:07 +1030 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by audi.shelbyville.oz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6074F8F3 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:48 +1030 (CST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at audi.shelbyville.oz Received: from audi.shelbyville.oz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (audi.shelbyville.oz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 96Hk52ySjvrD for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:47 +1030 (CST) Received: by audi.shelbyville.oz (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8579B4F8FE; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:47 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:38:47 +1030 From: Ron To: codec@ietf.org Message-ID: <20100227110847.GS26532@audi.shelbyville.oz> References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:46:53 -0000 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:01:44PM -0800, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > Brian West [brian@freeswitch.org] wrote: > >On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > >> Hi, > >> I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear that I'm in favor of adopting these drafts as WG items :-) > > I'm in favor of them also. > > I think this is a good idea. > > (I also agree that the "Internet Interactive Audio Codec" or "Interactive Internet Audio Codec" are fine names) +1 on both drafts and naming From framefritti@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 11:36:16 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24CEB28C24F for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:36:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.114 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.114 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.485, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HPXZHPIIPySz for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5526528C2B1 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by vws20 with SMTP id 20so525024vws.31 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=SPnCY001cR5U/hCBInt41yUErWzmp3C3vs/3GQNQDoM=; b=OtWFaRJK7AIt4Xf2HpnMpIJyXIqhTHtfNB/B9QnD6M/88AphobZSCiIjWQvSceSacS r0JI5dov4m2CDXdYb30saMwlUd/ffImmErnzRL+zKg5Pir5J1yX1cpqpQY4fLKIOXHMX vsZdvtB9n0En0uztABXOsAfjY+SR3QyNu9v7M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=u/IvyXKAExD8WRk7UBeGfuuoSp58RHwcwjNR8YZNaXDA5ek0HMpzIZvnbUnWbQeyq0 i7VIr1aTH7xbufwwRXdpVE3h85nmz0qPoFtVnOpnTP6CWH+2Nqwqv7CquMLyXl0rORRI RueARXtKzoxi+vheCtsGNsvHGZ9v92sItb+DQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.122.24 with SMTP id j24mr1615802vcr.28.1267299512221; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20100227110847.GS26532@audi.shelbyville.oz> References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> <4B85C15B.5070603@usherbrooke.ca> <20100227110847.GS26532@audi.shelbyville.oz> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:38:32 +0100 Message-ID: <80617a0a1002271138ka08a1a7p15b48bb6fc1c1df0@mail.gmail.com> From: Finta Tartaruga To: codec@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:36:16 -0000 Just a minor point: section 5.6 of the requirement document (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02) seems to be a verbatim copy of section 5.4. (BTW, sorry for the gmail address. I have some problems with my "work" email) From jonas.svedberg@ericsson.com Sat Feb 27 13:00:47 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A407E28C202 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aKVgO0d3mY-2 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (mailgw9.se.ericsson.net [193.180.251.57]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F2B28C2E2 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:00:45 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb39-b7c2dae000007b99-61-4b8988885bc5 Received: from esessmw0256.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 9E.2D.31641.888898B4; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:03:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSCMS0361.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.202]) by esessmw0256.eemea.ericsson.se ([10.2.3.125]) with mapi; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:03:03 +0100 From: Jonas Svedberg To: Codec WG Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:03:03 +0100 Thread-Topic: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements Thread-Index: Acq02C7bX1i6roo1RRWknr7VXQRjvwC/DyIg Message-ID: <70605C7F7303F24DA29681D7F6AB952801A4E836@ESESSCMS0361.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:00:47 -0000 Hi all, =20 With respect to the standardization guidelines I see that more work is need= ed to bring it inline with the spirit of the charter, before adopting as a = WG draft document=20 e.g.=20 *The charter is much clearer on the goal of having one standardized codec = compared to the=20 the where in sections 1 and 2 the guid= elines target can still be seen as the standardization of several codecs. *Regarding the IPR section 5, (if this section is to be maintained in the = process guidelines at all), =20 it needs be aligned with the charter and then further discussion is desir= ed=20 especially around the listed subguidelines within section 5.=20 =20 *Also in general the WG draft guidelines should be limited to the process = description of the codec standardization work, and not include motivational/promotional parts. e.g= . in section 1, section 5. =20 The preferred way forward would be to develop the draft-guidelines a bit fu= rther=20 and then check for consensus at IETF 77. =20 --=20 With respect to the requirements draft it is fine as a *starting point*,=20 (I do see that the definition of the main application and the various desig= n constraints/references for the various points in the "Operating Space" st= ill need further input/discussion. )=20 =20 //BR Jonas Svedberg=20 PS=20 As I am new to this list:=20 For those who do not know me I am working at Ericsson. DS -----Original Message----- From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of P= eter Saint-Andre Sent: den 23 februari 2010 23:32 To: Codec WG Subject: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements Our charter [1] specifies that our first two deliverables shall be: 1. A set of Codec Standardization Guidelines that define the work processes of the working group. This document shall be Informational. 2. A set of technical Requirements. This document shall be Informational. The submission deadline [2] for -00 drafts before IETF 77 is fast approachi= ng. Because it is desirable for these documents to be official WG items bef= ore our session at IETF 77, as Chairs we hereby issue a consensus call for: 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version of = the Codec Standardization Guidelines. 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial version o= f the Technical Requirements. We emphasize that these will be *initial* versions and that the existing In= ternet-Drafts will be used as *starting points* for discussion and consensu= s-building within the WG. (In fact, the Chairs have some list feedback to i= ncorporate before submitting these documents to the Secretariat, so the ver= sions referenced above are not *exactly* what would be submitted, but they = are close.) We also emphasize that if accepted as WG items these documents will initial= ly be under the editorship of the Chairs (not the current document authors)= until the Chairs have an opportunity to select official Document Editors f= or these Internet-Drafts as described in Section 6.3 of RFC 2418. The Chair= s envision that Document Editors can be selected close in time to IETF 77. Please provide your feedback to this consensus call by the end of the day o= n Sunday, 2010-02-28, so that if accepted the Chairs can submit -00 version= s of the relevant Internet-Drafts before the cut-off date (Monday, 2010-03-= 01 at 17:00 PST). Thank you. Peter Saint-Andre & Michael Knappe Co-chairs, Codec WG [1] http://tools.ietf.org/wg/codec/charters [2] http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2010.html#IETF77 [3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [4]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 From gregory.ietf@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 23:21:19 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C783A8741 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:21:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.743, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jjVQyqJ0yPiq for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f211.google.com (mail-bw0-f211.google.com [209.85.218.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143E93A8136 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:20:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1023256bwz.29 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:20:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=vz95TmQeexwKCKOTMDj33DlXIt/4g43XhlQtdiN4wMc=; b=cDXlZxWLJgB6p9JpSai9y7PFDQFBwfRNcETeyaHnQVv8pI4sA02ZaBii4n54vvchmM hNolGx4ZeUUevVYJ1s4IU7oNxrsgZCtQslHwrKVL4PRd9AqziGhGHzJ/z7189i6TbJgB G+08Kf6gMi6ktZCVLcUacraYT6xlAXO/vYYMc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=M8DmJZDL0mAXpgHUEiSqr++bPFuQwHsSEXas8gMAq8EinsX9fLU33xNnBKyBkfgZ/r gAGX/dVxB3Z8+MKwH6SIMtw8bnVN3D9KzRVknEg5mvoH/O+7k75aJylADeqeGNLwncuQ kwlVE6sy4nrStK2btlX8B4wODxXxrCrDyklAA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.26.198 with SMTP id f6mr1939049bkc.13.1267341652313; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:20:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:20:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: Gregory Lebovitz To: Peter Saint-Andre , Michael Knappe , Codec WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325554b2efec8130480a3f8fa Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:21:19 -0000 --000325554b2efec8130480a3f8fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Jack Moffitt wrote: > > 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as the initial version > > of the Codec Standardization Guidelines. > > > > 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial > > version of the Technical Requirements. > > +1 to both of these from me. > ++1. This is not to say that I think either of these drafts are perfect and ready for WG last call. On the contrary, as many others have pointed out on this thread, there are still several contentious parts and tuning to be done, especially to make the documents align more fully with the charter. But, that said, these documents are (a) the clear and obvious efforts of focus of the WG, with no contending documents, and (b) well along the right path toward fulfilling the charter. For these reasons, I support adopting them as WG documents, and continuing our efforts and tune and align them. Hth, Gregory. > > jack. > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > -- ---- IETF related email from Gregory M. Lebovitz Juniper Networks --000325554b2efec8130480a3f8fa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Jack Moffit= t <jack@collecta.= com> wrote:
> 1. Accepting draft-valin-codec-guidelines-02 [3] as = the initial version
> of the Codec Standardization Guidelines.
>
> 2. Accepting draft-valin-codec-requirements-02 [4] as the initial
> version of the Technical Requirements.

+1 to both of these from me.

++1.=

This is not to say that I think either of these d= rafts are perfect and ready for WG last call. On the contrary, as many othe= rs have pointed out on this thread, there are still several contentious par= ts and tuning to be done, especially to make the documents align more fully= with the charter. But, that said, these documents are (a) the clear and ob= vious efforts of focus of the WG, with no contending documents, and (b) wel= l along the right path toward fulfilling the charter. For these reasons, I = support adopting them as WG documents, and continuing our efforts and tune = and align them.

Hth,
Gregory.
=A0

jack.
_______________________________________________
codec mailing list
codec@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec



--
----
IETF related em= ail from
Gregory M. Lebovitz
Juniper Networks
--000325554b2efec8130480a3f8fa-- From xiphmont@gmail.com Sat Feb 27 23:28:01 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8343A8747 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:28:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GtxJQufoAN8B for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:28:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f211.google.com (mail-bw0-f211.google.com [209.85.218.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C970C3A8626 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by bwz3 with SMTP id 3so1024476bwz.29 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:27:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=h8h2T6jTl1a7ea6cH9MnWg5B31j82SpNJ7tjVf+5Pqw=; b=Pv6geGV76c5yzZouw0Kt6dpzBRFcc13BF7H58z/F6jTsoBOCb1r6giLy0jNA0D45EC eMtx5QgGDC3O0Pacs0c3I/tnyqPCJqlq2xsbYakYQ0gPOwlqzHYdYYc11voaQOnhv3Cj OCAhkKmLeu00z5+jUih7h5QXwAEP6E4IapTh4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=Fo+BRbNRnEBCQZZzs/zFZ78b6IjJgsQWAQFkNuITi+6pzmo8RTeV44LaWo50JYDzl1 Nr9Z4o5acwwqYFo51B0XFRL3igevPoVyVnfswZ+t9XHa5T9L02jMjKhXE4j+RDrNYhm/ gJPFTJCEFkdGUGwXK1LCFsV//oMj88lHaZKIQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.5.217 with SMTP id 25mr1788320bkw.114.1267342075780; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:27:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4B84574A.5070204@stpeter.im> <9b58f4551002241610n15d78941ufcea4558dc0272ff@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 02:27:55 -0500 Message-ID: <806dafc21002272327t506b743fp6cd9da1cb2948398@mail.gmail.com> From: Monty Montgomery To: Gregory Lebovitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Codec WG Subject: Re: [codec] consensus call: guidelines and requirements X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 07:28:01 -0000 Gregory just made the points I was trying to find the words for. Not perfect, but clear, concise and accurate thusfar. I've held off on commenting only because wordsmithing is not my forte, but these documents appear to say what I think they should say. +1 to both. Monty Xiph.Org