From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Feb 7 15:57:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151DA1AD79D; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:57:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twWVssYjAsCd; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A881AD739; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:57:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.0.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140207235751.17430.32211.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 15:57:51 -0800 Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: [codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 23:57:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Wideband Audio Codec Working Group of the IETF. Title : Ogg Encapsulation for the Opus Audio Codec Authors : Timothy B. Terriberry Ron Lee Ralph Giles Filename : draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2014-02-07 Abstract: This document defines the Ogg encapsulation for the Opus interactive speech and audio codec. This allows data encoded in the Opus format to be stored in an Ogg logical bitstream. Ogg encapsulation provides Opus with a long-term storage format supporting all of the essential features, including metadata, fast and accurate seeking, corruption detection, recapture after errors, low overhead, and the ability to multiplex Opus with other codecs (including video) with minimal buffering. It also provides a live streamable format, capable of delivery over a reliable stream-oriented transport, without requiring all the data, or even the total length of the data, up-front, in a form that is identical to the on-disk storage format. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From giles@thaumas.net Fri Feb 7 16:21:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8145D1AD7C1 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:21:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pO2hejs5qE_M for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:21:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-f176.google.com (mail-pd0-f176.google.com [209.85.192.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A691AD79D for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:21:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f176.google.com with SMTP id w10so3798519pde.35 for ; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:21:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MpYfui/UBoc24sx58o5fZFroMqWcVS6ALr4nqD6T/Lc=; b=aQEusnXdNquKvvx5c/m6WxY7DTWHN+t4skDVEI/B6hvjsAbtoyEuKEVh63CAhLyb41 pll4PP0BaW92scMN3u6RkzrT6dTVj6W1001LrjW7rGX8k1KZROXfQIbpf44m9Told+yT 5D8neS6JHoyoq7U0JqYL7Pm9+bAtQQFCYvZ45hNSg5ZYcVntOHzk/M8Uc72Cc1bslZIl 0rA+oDzwKkZf7APOz6usD21QTVWu0y0EwvIxbUBX5MWWpEdUV13djSECTSGJBpYKrXWm v3PmByMOk1/4RjrLneoK5UlEGL3NJhZxygVhbVWpNE3wJT1QAuPOSU1EkqMmrcOIpd6i smiA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk+R50c49OArGw/2zqR3dCjIcNokvVfzBFyWSmeiCG5qNq8+9o5O3CqLHx7zPvZHGNOjIu1 X-Received: by 10.68.196.195 with SMTP id io3mr23406759pbc.6.1391818864148; Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:21:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from tamias.local (static-68-179-67-77.ptr.terago.net. [68.179.67.77]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id xn12sm44820460pac.12.2014.02.07.16.21.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:21:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52F57871.7070107@thaumas.net> Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:21:05 -0800 From: Ralph Giles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: codec@ietf.org References: <20140207235751.17430.32211.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140207235751.17430.32211.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 00:21:06 -0000 On 2014-02-07 3:57 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > Title : Ogg Encapsulation for the Opus Audio Codec > Filename : draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt I've posted a new version of the Ogg Encapsulation draft for Opus. The -03 draft just fixes some formatting issues in the -02 draft. The -02 draft includes a couple of new sections over the -01 draft: - Jean-Marc's encoder guidelines for lapping - Tim's section on gap repair for RTP stream recording - My recommended surround->stereo downmix matrices - Text improved and clarified (we hope!) - More and updated references Thanks to everyone who sent feedback on the earlier drafts. I'm happier with this one. As far as the authors are concerned, there are two issues left outstanding by this version: (1) We'd like to give more specific instructions for setting pre-skip values 'in such a way' as to properly cross-lap when performing compressed stream editing. Section 7.2, step 4. (2) We haven't addressed Calvin Walton's questions about the various gain headers. The idnits program complains about our normative references to RFC 3533 "Ogg Encapsulation Format", which is Informational. I think this should be acceptable since it documents an already established format. I haven't preceived any need for a 3533bis, so doing the work to produce a Standards Track revision makes little sense. It likewise complains about our citation of EBU-128, which I believe is similarly acceptable. It is the industry standard reference for the applicable technique. Comments on the new draft welcome! Cheers, -r From nobody Fri Feb 28 06:48:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF54C1A0820 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KosB3RYEqMFa for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ig0-x22b.google.com (mail-ig0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AA61A0814 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ig0-f171.google.com with SMTP id uq10so1760184igb.4 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kepstin.ca; s=google; h=message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to:references :content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6x3Lfb5GhwEoZs5KWswSshIom1Cnva3f50AxzWKjvII=; b=GeDxX1O4bnNazFP+DTJ4dXWngNFuQOqYR8ZVmp7m5pRZzOLb1Ql+R3Tk9GnfC1k4GD wP3N+VUoxx9iDuLLg6jC+Wzhh6zkhBe2XRBCwYlLfC+Z4rvr5vPxdsDlJ67QqJpyA6mX tEvQW/s6GuHdREFQ2I0Xdji5dXjJjGlmX04jw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:date:in-reply-to :references:content-type:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6x3Lfb5GhwEoZs5KWswSshIom1Cnva3f50AxzWKjvII=; b=aHlNqwoXuy/32wBsVf+8LOLZQ5rhaAzYPiF6DBZOh5nNX8kIb5+252Nc0yyir+mUgv /twmUfuxMnXGDZIz55EJQKNoFa7lAcF4AVlVt5GAuYPkbwLnrPW0m+0zFQIUbcxjaxHA m8U33clYadu/iMDFy+WgPZFDaDivgZCofhWeX16xSZIhh0gTOgshq1GeQ2qJOkQqJZ5Z ir38n8C5Bz5a+nb2Nls/acX3jT6UpBmVz4ZCZSmrs/Xny3kw0YPn3kyzYgGjGrlUNpT4 IboTMBXdgidl7uY4rKAlv3RtbF8+s5894S/ph7BQiJ9KidO4xcQE7c2AzV+JWBNPx0/D QeSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnJPtLNkyef1WYw0LdawCyxK17y+shYTMZ3Xu2ynmlamp9S/Xvj3ycGjoObm2XFrc4vr/ZO X-Received: by 10.50.79.135 with SMTP id j7mr4483704igx.32.1393598904747; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.176] (OTWAON23-1242490325.sdsl.bell.ca. [74.14.229.213]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hs6sm7705250igb.2.2014.02.28.06.48.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:48:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1393598902.1003.30.camel@sasami.ottawa.blindsidenetworks.com> From: Calvin Walton To: Ralph Giles Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:48:22 -0500 In-Reply-To: <52F57871.7070107@thaumas.net> References: <20140207235751.17430.32211.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <52F57871.7070107@thaumas.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/codec/Mq10DrOHWGC3L2Uz3V0Ohwuo8Z8 Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:48:29 -0000 On Fri, 2014-02-07 at 16:21 -0800, Ralph Giles wrote: > On 2014-02-07 3:57 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > Title : Ogg Encapsulation for the Opus Audio Codec > > Filename : draft-ietf-codec-oggopus-03.txt > > I've posted a new version of the Ogg Encapsulation draft for Opus. > > (2) We haven't addressed Calvin Walton's questions about the various > gain headers. I just want to try to restate and clarify my opinion on this a bit: The ReplayGain tags are application-specific metadata tags defined by a specification that is managed externally to the IETF[1]. As such, I don't think it's appropriate for the Ogg Opus specification to state whether or not the REPLAYGAIN tags should be present in the file, or their specific semantics. Any required changes for handling ReplayGain in Ogg Opus should probably be done in the ReplayGain specs themselves. - One question I'm not sure about. Is the proposed R128_TRACK_GAIN field supposed to be a generic vorbis comment standard that can be used in multiple formats? (e.g. Ogg Vorbis, Flac), or is it intended only for use in Opus? If the former, it should probably be proposed in a more general way. Inasmuch as there is no real standardization organization for multi-format vorbis comment fields, a discussion on the HydrogenAudio forums may be a good place to see if there is any interest in adopting the comment format. Having a uniform set of tag names for vorbis comments is advantageous to people building music players and decoding libraries, since it means that vorbis comment parsing code can be shared between multiple formats. 1) It's currently published on the HydrogenAudio wiki. Current standard (David Robinson's original calculation algorithm) http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ReplayGain_1.0_specification Proposed revision (updated algorithm based on EBU-R128 with gain offset) http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ReplayGain_2.0_specification -- Calvin Walton