From prvs=32120e22f2=hans@fb.com Wed Feb 8 10:29:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA12129D24 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 10:29:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fb.com header.b=ZizehSnH; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fb.onmicrosoft.com header.b=H99ne0F5 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2iX0mn-A7mBW for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 10:29:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00082601.pphosted.com (mx0b-00082601.pphosted.com [67.231.153.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27BCA129D18 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 10:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0001255.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00082601.pphosted.com (8.16.0.20/8.16.0.20) with SMTP id v18IT6cs014202 for ; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 10:29:44 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fb.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=facebook; bh=utsixLceFvCDrWpgfHsfgqPAH/XhWH9EKOOoJkuxpbM=; b=ZizehSnHrFYuANGn+C2b66dLt55XdjMYKzzvx+4Q8jaEbqIvUX0YjbH2neSCb/ZGjGuP yb75a5/bSXv2f+1SZfDqd53wpd+CURENfVhZmsxfvQOZ/us9SgxHM7n3xNvWIFLDB8BS gCQb8dNNNPR51tmtRj4NqpDSZc0hf90vxFw= Received: from maileast.thefacebook.com ([199.201.65.23]) by mx0b-00082601.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 28fs1ua1an-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 08 Feb 2017 10:29:44 -0800 Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (192.168.183.28) by o365-in.thefacebook.com (192.168.177.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.294.0; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 13:29:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fb.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-fb-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=utsixLceFvCDrWpgfHsfgqPAH/XhWH9EKOOoJkuxpbM=; b=H99ne0F5uY6Yp+hRu25VF9MBktoQXrlVOtOT5/IPQnoU+P6/HhiHprQaKlJrK6FOyQpGX75JR6ZNlY2Nxhs6Pg3bkQky+/Qx9AfUJbsoNnz89TLPSELHm3b64hcPCXzQoNYhXtB6dWhfZEYMyhNkZueqO/GlZuE11guO6cU/3Gc= Received: from BN6PR15MB1553.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.172.152.20) by BN6PR15MB1556.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.172.152.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.888.16; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:29:40 +0000 Received: from BN6PR15MB1553.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.152.20]) by BN6PR15MB1553.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.152.20]) with mapi id 15.01.0888.026; Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:29:40 +0000 From: Hans Fugal To: "codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHSgjlP1nQn+semiEm46Jbn6/BG8w== Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <2D916546-8C57-4435-9B7C-341AF385476D@fb.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [2620:10d:c090:200::d:86c6] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: be4973ac-7ed6-4e64-1599-08d4505071c4 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:BN6PR15MB1556; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR15MB1556; 7: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; 20:FZprMfvtnvA+iA6wUCzXcGZE/RtZP1GGy7iw4TFwk0aOG5/nhJ1TBcd6PMGRlpmM9sEycw7g0KJ0W7vjGCtpUE2eNtkGarSMX/4uS1LItA31pSk4SHDdqEBF6tYuhIiDVKF3sbBTlenFdeV+QuYxLZriIjbtSfPLtRokLmitM0g= x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040375)(601004)(2401047)(2017020702029)(20170203043)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(20161123558025)(20161123555025)(6072148); SRVR:BN6PR15MB1556; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN6PR15MB1556; x-forefront-prvs: 0212BDE3BE x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(39410400002)(39830400002)(39450400003)(54094003)(199003)(189002)(5640700003)(5660300001)(106356001)(6916009)(8676002)(25786008)(6436002)(8936002)(105586002)(77096006)(7736002)(189998001)(106116001)(3660700001)(83506001)(82746002)(450100001)(83716003)(1730700003)(305945005)(110136004)(6486002)(6512007)(81166006)(81156014)(99286003)(122556002)(2501003)(38730400002)(97736004)(50986999)(101416001)(36756003)(3280700002)(6506006)(68736007)(2351001)(2900100001)(33656002)(6116002)(102836003)(2906002)(230783001)(86362001)(4001350100001)(53936002)(54356999)(92566002)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN6PR15MB1556; H:BN6PR15MB1553.namprd15.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: fb.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8D4F2793F092BD4BB91952AFB2F2921E@namprd15.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Feb 2017 18:29:40.0332 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 8ae927fe-1255-47a7-a2af-5f3a069daaa2 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR15MB1556 X-OriginatorOrg: fb.com X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe X-FB-Internal: Safe X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-02-08_11:, , signatures=0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:17:01 -0800 Subject: [codec] Comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-01.txt X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 21:49:10 -0000 SSBoYXZlIHJldmlld2VkIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGZpbmQgaXQgc2F0aXNmYWN0b3J5LiBJbiBw YXJ0aWN1bGFyIEkgbGlrZSB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBhbWJpWCAoQUNOIG9yZGVyaW5nIGFuZCBTTjNE IG5vcm1hbGl6YXRpb24pIGZvcm1hdCwgdGhlIGluY2x1c2lvbiBvZiBub24tZGllZ2V0aWMgYXVk aW8gaW4gYm90aCBjaGFubmVsIG1hcHBpbmdzLCBhbmQgdGhlIGZsZXhpYmxlIHN1cHBvcnQgaW4g Y2hhbm5lbCBtYXBwaW5nIDMgZm9yIGFyYml0cmFyeSBtYXRyaWNlcy4gSSB0aGluayBpdCB3aWxs IGJlIGFuIGltcG9ydGFudCBjb250cmlidXRpb24gdG8gZW5jb2RpbmcgYW5kIHN0YW5kYXJkaXpp bmcgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIG9mIGFtYmlzb25pY3MgLSB3aGljaCBpcyBhbiBpbXBvcnRhbnQgZW1l cmdpbmcgZm9ybWF0IC0gYW5kIHRoYXQgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSBhIGJvb24gdG8gT2dnIE9wdXMuDQoN Ckkgd29uZGVyIGlmIGl0IG1pZ2h0IGFsc28gYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gd2lkZW4gdGhlIHNjb3Bl IG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdCB0byBpbmNsdWRlIG90aGVyIGNvZGVjcyBpbiBhbiBPZ2cgY29udGFpbmVy LCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkgRkxBQyBvciBzb21lIG90aGVyIGxvc3NsZXNzIGNvZGVjLg0KDQpDaGVl cnMNCg0K From nobody Fri Feb 10 12:57:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A9C129BF2 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=thaumas-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0dP6MUnJvIW5 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 359E01294A3 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 189so11780234pfu.3 for ; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thaumas-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oP2zTEFtsFRTBBZbcD7DWvvaxQXGF1SwhhlhfzvPrdc=; b=FcANqOUBrh/KzGoNEDVMkD0VWfUXh/YX6bLttCBeosi4QI3oSCkPiit4r4oOYs+zJI BNiGDRlRo4sWWzmnQRL2lRkc46MLoI7KJK+GJjTG6G6y/W9TAR9x1De81+ikyqhY2K6C I6l7k8ad0EP0gFQk1yRHYowvcPvn8DXHOgPHzrVZyLyZjsszGTnkF6TM+nKP3Zo9iY53 KVSaHS0P6ePrfI4mm2BLW/X0Cf5bEmUemoWe0KVdqf3pJHMpOXIDaBv9l2CNTA5UT8Ue vslOKUyGoS3zpZl4xFI6f7yc3EOzb/XLOYt2nXPJLD24w9SRBy9AWc/U1hWmcwDhrjtg gmiw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oP2zTEFtsFRTBBZbcD7DWvvaxQXGF1SwhhlhfzvPrdc=; b=DIlG1zz7My5/ttl3iPGadiFoORiYufap8U2WMf4oilQoBytj8QXbbFWAONo9wZsyUW nTsVgRUHLgGzoruL53vNCgFyoIy4TPeLe1RYxRJwVB+Igb/MuwNf4kwyu8lpWw7JRzcE hmWg6Tob0NM1oBfrsQhVQ5pNcsrT1Va4dxHqwQ/X+QXHypHofBuW67sj9ae2RV/CPaiy D42mO2fA6FcY0jM4w/6cGmXYLMi2sB99Y6HJ3tF7xAqqeEBeWdBRRSq96B1t066licau nUwzy97ynro2X2i795Rn6AGqRPX7JDxcO0T0RMmT7gJ44T/vgt9nrOWTkCFjD1pcvgDh k2hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lXsPjygDoOYiICm3H79oZcpSptG/HTdeSP48djnReLjP3b6CA1UCNK1PQxsUNvng== X-Received: by 10.84.247.2 with SMTP id n2mr13869939pll.39.1486760226688; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pteropus.local ([2607:ffb0:3001:224:5469:6db:6cfc:8fc]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m136sm7343753pga.22.2017.02.10.12.57.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:06 -0800 (PST) To: codec@ietf.org References: <2D916546-8C57-4435-9B7C-341AF385476D@fb.com> From: Ralph Giles Message-ID: <486c69e2-2005-2769-d998-2f30275c05b7@thaumas.net> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 12:57:04 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2D916546-8C57-4435-9B7C-341AF385476D@fb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [codec] Comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-01.txt X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 20:57:08 -0000 On 2017-02-08 10:29 AM, Hans Fugal wrote: > I wonder if it might also be possible to widen the scope of the draft to include other codecs in an Ogg container, particularly FLAC or some other lossless codec. I think the draft would be a good basis for a similar extension to lossless encoding. However, FLAC's 8-channel limit means one would probably need some way of trunking multiple FLAC streams together. There's interest in this for multitrack recording as well as ambisonics, but I think specifying it is outside the focus of this working group. Could you bring it up with the CELLAR group, which is standardizing FLAC? -r From nobody Sat Feb 11 07:43:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietf.org Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E132F12988D; Sat, 11 Feb 2017 07:43:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.43.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148682783687.10956.1118280195444300700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 07:43:56 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: tterriberry@mozilla.com, codec-chairs@ietf.org, codec@ietf.org Subject: [codec] codec - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 98 X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 15:43:57 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Tim Terriberry, a Chair of the codec working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Internet Wideband Audio Codec Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Tim Terriberry Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 20 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netvc Second Priority: avtcore mmusic payload perc rtcweb rmcat tram People who must be present: Ben Campbell Tim Terriberry Mo Zanaty Resources Requested: Projector in room Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Feb 17 13:57:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69909129BF1 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tUBETKdb1YCh for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x233.google.com (mail-pg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D7C51296DA for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id z67so18600160pgb.1 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XlDUTk8Yx4+G8tPZiRHHKZMUylQ1ZEek5BbjD3n0k7M=; b=u8WHc/pRJdzl8PloiLUh4kxZllDEPfj9BU/YuGtdIOFeywDbcpFSesh1Oji9GUxACi 1BXDCT8Qyrf/mcYUu6VNT0AvPsfO+f003/3RpE3P67Bmw99wB33vZ8ko19N9qlT1H/6v 7nqX9ZpJanbb1O+k0RdXOqUwVioW2wAQtIfmQLqzNclSAtnvmYhTlQWLkGH2puVO7pff NDNvpmw/8F03L0T/CfhfweAXpdRCFNZZGg/9XFNqnGhHRCEdhRoJkvmmHdZdEohZ5O3U 4Y0TRI//+GzNIcFaz34cPgZP/PXqligcHHfZpGEtngQDekq33semUZHkUUzCvAo0GaR5 f/SQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XlDUTk8Yx4+G8tPZiRHHKZMUylQ1ZEek5BbjD3n0k7M=; b=NeBFRhUIIp7MKnudZOSOJa62W2YlUmCqYVzO/6QKBJvNLAEQfehiA3WngwFhTKwVU+ bpMViPsfZXw1eJGNit16hlJG2MmWX0zATTHHvD1Aa4hdvt7SYnlRS1pXgFS7+V12k+J3 a5QhuQgsSD6nFWXECDY1qmHEqDshzXXK1UPrsTv0frDieaL9CbCLSbWP1asOho1CVgMc e6nKDn1E8Jbkq1zdoTCxhad8j1GuweIG9SOx93pBzyg7o/LFVeUchrmwmYsBm8jZN13q +YpAFgW49ZlijsdcFZTV2OoM4lQduI2/kVEH220mFfZZgCdE4idePriUwE+0JrzAPV0C 3ZJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lXBfOlkZFdUomwtRml3WdRM7JGsBgjnrwMn9E3W5VyfCRpSeCpdNbBdHyoIwjDFA== X-Received: by 10.98.7.150 with SMTP id 22mr11808919pfh.69.1487368638545; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca ([2620:101:80fc:232:a950:c5b3:e7af:f605]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m136sm21470967pga.22.2017.02.17.13.57.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Feb 2017 13:57:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jean-Marc Valin To: Jan Skoglund , "codec@ietf.org" Message-ID: <2f534e1b-b1af-266a-50ef-36f1739d878b@jmvalin.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:57:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [codec] Comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-01 X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 21:57:20 -0000 Hi Jan, Here's some comments based on my review of the ambisonics draft: 3. Ambisonics With Ogg Opus > Ambisonics MAY be encapsulated in the Ogg format by encoding with the I would suggest replacing the normative MAY by just "can" 3.1. Channel Mapping Family 2 > This channel mapping uses the same channel mapping table format used > by channel mapping families 1 and 255. I would suggest saying "mapping family 1" rather than "mapping families 1 and 255" since otherwise, you have families 2 referencing itself. Also, we don't know what families 4 and up will look like. 3.2. Channel Mapping Family 3 I would suggest removing the "Output Channel Numbering" field because it is fully equivalent to simply permuting lines of the matrix. Also, I believe that the size of the matrix was meant to be "32*(N+M)*C bits" rather than "32*N*C bits". About the matrix -- and as previously discussed privately -- I think it should probably be stored as 16-bit integers in Q15 format. If any global scaling is ever required, then the "output gain" field can always be used. > Note that [RFC7845] specifies that the identification header cannot > exceed one "page", which is 65,025 octets. This sets a practical > maximum ambisonic order of 10, if full order is utilized and the > number of coded streams is the same as the ambisonic order plus the > two non-diegetic channels. This text is unclear about whether partial order 11 is allowed. I have no strong opinion on the subject, but think it should be clarified. Cheers, Jean-Marc From nobody Fri Feb 17 22:03:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B696612896F for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jaaFHc5-PxWG for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22c.google.com (mail-pg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F1F7120726 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 129so2364496pgg.2 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T+gNiMJ62OknP9jYUf5P6/RlPP2j1yLiRuMwNxvL7Rc=; b=Lo2ni86+MZTNkxyISA2jw66uNLWMWfykyNWu1fEVTrw+c4e5KJgcBhhyXNF5D7cn9U RSRJKrb7W2IrS4r7I6WQUKkbwR0GjZ44/OlZD11UU5ctKd5+riPEkiBDlc5RTTOlSTLy 16NalAp/QqMZQa5qpo69orLDX/EYtZo4BRLM1z7iBgrCD0bbYpRkrAl1YHkBiPJLaFBS q38Q1itsKBndYcUESNnMwER1MzzW+mReN9c2x1rEkgUYlTC5agF0VGZCeN1U0v5SveeV bywaXyCR7An/8Z5oiCWiKPT0vDxqR2aY1igptSa/JbRIyac8rEKxDveePOIw+wd1gRwz 6g8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T+gNiMJ62OknP9jYUf5P6/RlPP2j1yLiRuMwNxvL7Rc=; b=KGF9rYmSSvQUTUUHILDkPER1FuEIHHdY8vN5UJOTgKhmRPjiOfPAm1yHzMhTga9kdi sOyySEifOF1XdZiujyv7PLiR0/9A+9yVcQ4Z4zo3wImmHvg7fyBL9cNIC8YfL5ACTuEZ zPzEdjnOB+TzuicioScAuoW1cTmCry9a3lri6VIDi2PYeMPTVx/eQw5NMdI4CVnABHg4 KoKkGsBvzpNG1vl/ODmY/M9xSoDHdIpY4hlbv6sf+oxWUIwQaOi+4JmAiyZXk6OUZBG9 Q83+DtzCQY7eo1IsLtBNa/3KTxQYLJSKyPUsg9O1Ci6HJJvYI0jGtCefS2Fw+Z67HGce 5Jzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39md0NlBzT7kvn4sVlNxM77l9piKoMsPGIGdqhweN8QsA6txmzksTC9XlqrEnk7eDQ== X-Received: by 10.84.164.231 with SMTP id l36mr16486079plg.166.1487397777987; Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca ([64.134.221.20]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m21sm22930413pgh.4.2017.02.17.22.02.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Feb 2017 22:02:57 -0800 (PST) To: Jan Skoglund , "codec@ietf.org" References: <2f534e1b-b1af-266a-50ef-36f1739d878b@jmvalin.ca> From: Jean-Marc Valin Message-ID: <77dc6cba-c541-b355-dc1a-bf59238d94a2@jmvalin.ca> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 01:02:56 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2f534e1b-b1af-266a-50ef-36f1739d878b@jmvalin.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [codec] Comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-01 X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 06:03:00 -0000 > I would suggest removing the "Output Channel Numbering" field because it > is fully equivalent to simply permuting lines of the matrix. Also, I > believe that the size of the matrix was meant to be "32*(N+M)*C bits" > rather than "32*N*C bits". So based further discussions off-list with Mark and Tim, it seems like there's a few issues with RFC7845 that would need to be addressed: 5.1.1. Channel Mapping > The order and meaning of these > channels are defined by a channel mapping, which consists of the > 'channel mapping family' octet and, for channel mapping families > other than family 0, a 'channel mapping table', as illustrated > in Figure 3. This seems to impose that all other families have a channel mapping table, which as I pointed out for family 3, isn't always appropriate. So I think this draft should update RFC7845 to state that only the "Stream Count" and "Coupled Count" fields are required for all families greater than 0. The channel mapping table isn't required unless a particular family defines it. 5.1.1.4. Undefined Channel Mappings > The remaining channel mapping families (2...254) are reserved. A > demuxer implementation encountering a reserved 'channel mapping > family' value SHOULD act as though the value is 255. If we change the channel mapping table to not be defined for all families, then we would need to update this paragraph to state that undefined families should be treated as 255, but assuming an "identity ordering" rather than attempting to read a mapping table that may not actually exist. I also think we should officially mark families 250-254 (or maybe a larger range?) as reserved for experimental features that have yet to be assigned a permanent family number by IANA. For example, the Opus code currently uses 254 and 253 to handle what would be families 2 and 3 ones this draft becomes RFC. Mark, Tim, did I forget anything? Cheers, Jean-Marc