From nobody Tue Feb 12 12:50:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B8B130E1C for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:50:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id biRPEN3R4JwN for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 599BA130E64 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8A57C3BDD for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:50:47 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bCKW8t9DeEBL for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:50:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from hta-hippo.lul.corp.google.com (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:1043:12:88ab:4fa2:7af4:100d]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C4AE7C0753 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:50:46 +0100 (CET) To: codec@ietf.org From: Harald Alvestrand Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <15e1a439-bdc1-cd5f-8c9b-ee02c0248a30@alvestrand.no> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 21:50:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [codec] SDP mapping for > 2 channels in OPUS? X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 20:50:51 -0000 Hi, I wonder if there exists some specification for multichannel OPUS in SDP - I have searched for it and missed it. I note that RFC 8486 (ambisonics) doesn't say anything about SDP considerations. Harald From nobody Tue Feb 12 14:41:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA92130DD8 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WaxsnQr-MFvA for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81327126C01 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id b8so405964qtr.9 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SgG6xn/dIzdd3/NTY+FO1qKsac7BlJ7ogfcnZmRvSo0=; b=ow6Im9I6QALS7kqIMjdc6ffDPQIl5C8P4Anw2Cas73uv2HEoaQjW8tEhrQnYG4DyRS eocp+aX/33LbF29BPDs1mshbjM3a7kD9cdMLG6K1bup5oUmVpbmNSyck3PV2V4xXAJcX V0U3CyP/wwUHrxfaSywG6rS6t7YDbmVALUb6fQRnqfrB4l6k74KxAwDufmeLcMxt2lIl mmZEKIR+CZl1U/L5Ekh1sYIMJKaXKA89GjipTu5c70/yXFmJAWynCnq4QoG4XOpmFoBy E6yFoGHpWumGifsabNJxn7kfIOuqVvMLTB8Hj0Td4A8FwSrWeKQo/XgMV3SlJmPamkhp c9xQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=SgG6xn/dIzdd3/NTY+FO1qKsac7BlJ7ogfcnZmRvSo0=; b=TomEn4t2EzLcv9NnVkehfcJZeL05LMwyE0VCHjzPHDjO6YwESYqmKZXYSnm7hanSVP oIE7zZi6OeQ4slPI6W0OWfCQmlKbM/1SYzKWN1CLPJ4kkLh3VT5Av8NEQzYQPqlc9PWB UCUe4+Zz7QN+4aB7vXRCW5tHOD1IwQT4J/LF3J0TObRVFVxagwA+W633/rSZGFCQfAQY rWXY4HCdmKtcVXQX0KHJmVVDooTbRxqPOWf/nYRibbQzhdxmGd6ETS2QX3qQNkFyLOJo V9IqYPuzzFDbAZqO/KF90GkE5/qToN09MW2baV0Hd10t+0RslkryhUQEV36lbzkpm61Z I/pw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAub19cgFTMwX/X7j5Lot24IWZDoMU9Gc/+WcRKm3oGEWKuRoeabH uAkuDg08gTHLiNJsgTq+yGfACSHugKg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3Ib7itRvTFvUMB7nFP7XESnPjasA92vBJyd62JvoOipPqbtH62xIHohLvXWjnpFuDBb0PU5X2Q== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d283:: with SMTP id q3mr4482983qvh.67.1550011274288; Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from obelix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable231.101-131-66.mc.videotron.ca. [66.131.101.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g49sm8809383qtg.24.2019.02.12.14.41.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:41:13 -0800 (PST) To: Harald Alvestrand , codec@ietf.org References: <15e1a439-bdc1-cd5f-8c9b-ee02c0248a30@alvestrand.no> From: Jean-Marc Valin Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 17:41:11 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15e1a439-bdc1-cd5f-8c9b-ee02c0248a30@alvestrand.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [codec] SDP mapping for > 2 channels in OPUS? X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:41:18 -0000 Hi Harald, There's no such spec yet. It probably would not be too hard to come up with one, starting from the RFC7845 and RFC8486. That being said, I think we would need to define a new payload and corresponding media subtype to avoid compatibility problems with RFC7587. Cheers, Jean-Marc On 02/12/2019 03:50 PM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > Hi, > > I wonder if there exists some specification for multichannel OPUS in SDP > - I have searched for it and missed it. > > I note that RFC 8486 (ambisonics) doesn't say anything about SDP > considerations. > > Harald > > > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > From nobody Wed Feb 13 00:46:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35689131083 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 00:46:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7t27k1FRxNc for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 00:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1715131047 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 00:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C720B7C3E59; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:46:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e3UwAlphEii3; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:46:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from hta-hippo.lul.corp.google.com (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:1043:12:88ab:4fa2:7af4:100d]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C70E7C0C58; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:46:22 +0100 (CET) To: Jean-Marc Valin , codec@ietf.org References: <15e1a439-bdc1-cd5f-8c9b-ee02c0248a30@alvestrand.no> From: Harald Alvestrand Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <181650d0-db82-dde6-6624-fdb27ee03917@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:46:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [codec] SDP mapping for > 2 channels in OPUS? X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 08:46:29 -0000 On 12. feb. 2019 23:41, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > Hi Harald, > > There's no such spec yet. It probably would not be too hard to come up > with one, starting from the RFC7845 and RFC8486. That being said, I > think we would need to define a new payload and corresponding media > subtype to avoid compatibility problems with RFC7587. Thanks for confirming the absence of specs. The hackaround that Google folks are trying is to send 5.1 as 3 OPUS stereo channels, which doesn't make me particularly happy. > > Cheers, > > Jean-Marc > > > On 02/12/2019 03:50 PM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I wonder if there exists some specification for multichannel OPUS in SDP >> - I have searched for it and missed it. >> >> I note that RFC 8486 (ambisonics) doesn't say anything about SDP >> considerations. >> >> Harald >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >> > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec From nobody Wed Feb 13 01:05:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C9F128CB7 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ok34TxMRdwLd for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DBAA12D4E6 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id p25so1435897qtb.3 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla.com; s=google; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s7UYfE90XWFc2O1uHV6Wi2Ot6huFc+gNmtKe++pY3jI=; b=Hd94ai9p6CFwioK1TVMCZBewmR4QQ8di8LmHPstKTdJj90tGpWkGMlVP+WF9LIp1zF fd5kpFrZ37NYttTxxS7bXLkae323rYLBQv7n3GDEcxNuRvZqD9OP1vf9n87hV9C+AyAy 2mZdWn2pJAca632WxNuFOq9FgjW9omrZi+RKM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=s7UYfE90XWFc2O1uHV6Wi2Ot6huFc+gNmtKe++pY3jI=; b=ePrYZfBYw0eHX+eu0PiC+xAa6hX9bt2RFaw/eYqqdMnzmE2LditxZA0MD8cJD8rCVR fSE5Wa7swevaC8gKHxdqL6buS/mYQPahPF5d6HjYOfyyPw4qIYTF62l4+GE9Q0YYkwgF glCPUNHUA0LiVZxpIPm4OqAUGDZ6AimtDXB94e5HsW9RzBAELZuduTdVIxMhxG5HQOgj ABUaaR3VmuI5575UVPkZXl2jGp/czT6FzwV+y11Akf1NZWGnHQIa6O7/KYNCE75qu9jo tStGJx5z5814cyP3jqrWlgf9Vr1cjWpR+Aujz+Llh3gdD7gOkYuVkZz4wZCGtwThnQj3 bGFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAubJ4ZSmHO+dpQ6qaQ01Lo4TaxIfj9MpOExM0gCpRD2RNB8gIguO yekCnpJE597qMMYN1dqTrTPFlVEZ3A4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYbaxkE5orTSx0axy1bCOwH0Uc+VignNtfwKSqxNcq0y7JPK1PWRyxQXZod62/0i2u3T6t/9w== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e707:: with SMTP id d7mr5769788qvn.175.1550048707121; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from obelix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable231.101-131-66.mc.videotron.ca. [66.131.101.231]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e129sm16932853qkf.85.2019.02.13.01.05.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Feb 2019 01:05:06 -0800 (PST) To: Harald Alvestrand , Jean-Marc Valin , codec@ietf.org References: <15e1a439-bdc1-cd5f-8c9b-ee02c0248a30@alvestrand.no> <181650d0-db82-dde6-6624-fdb27ee03917@alvestrand.no> From: Jean-Marc Valin Message-ID: <7c0b01f2-5ea3-666a-8976-d2d0603368ae@mozilla.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 04:05:05 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <181650d0-db82-dde6-6624-fdb27ee03917@alvestrand.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [codec] SDP mapping for > 2 channels in OPUS? X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 09:05:12 -0000 On 02/13/2019 03:46 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: > Thanks for confirming the absence of specs. The hackaround that Google > folks are trying is to send 5.1 as 3 OPUS stereo channels, which doesn't > make me particularly happy. No, don't do that. I think the correct solution is to define a new subtype (e.g. mc-opus) and then just specify an SDP version of the multi-channel fields of the Ogg header. For something like 5.1, that would basically mean transmitting the channel order and coupling. That also means being able to use the existing libopus surround encoder code, which will have *much* better quality than explicitly breaking down 5.1 into 3 independent stereo streams. Even ambisonics should work, though mapping family 3 may result in a few kB of data in the SDP for the matrices when using 3rd order. Cheers, Jean-Marc >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jean-Marc >> >> >> On 02/12/2019 03:50 PM, Harald Alvestrand wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I wonder if there exists some specification for multichannel OPUS in SDP >>> - I have searched for it and missed it. >>> >>> I note that RFC 8486 (ambisonics) doesn't say anything about SDP >>> considerations. >>> >>> Harald >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> codec mailing list >>> codec@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > > > _______________________________________________ > codec mailing list > codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >