From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 4 13:43:13 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06115 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:43:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA29248 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25995; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA25963 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:09:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from iraun2.uka.de (iraun2.uka.de [129.13.10.91]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01949 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:09:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from irams1.ira.uka.de ([129.13.10.5]) by iraun2.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 16BJ4p-0000h0-00; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:09:51 +0100 Received: from i72pc127.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.70.78] helo=i72pc127.tm.uka.de ident=root) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 16BJ4o-0003Cq-00; Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:09:50 +0100 Received: from i72pc127.tm.uka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i72pc127.tm.uka.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id fB4H9oU14294; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:09:51 +0100 Message-Id: <200112041709.fB4H9oU14294@i72pc127.tm.uka.de> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4+dev To: Kathleen Nichols cc: diffserv@ietf.org, wehrle@tm.uka.de Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Diffserv at SLC and in future In-Reply-To: Message from Kathleen Nichols of "Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:22:22 PST." <3C05396E.FD3AEB35@packetdesign.com> References: <3C05396E.FD3AEB35@packetdesign.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:09:50 +0100 From: Roland Bless Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit nichols@packetdesign.com said: > We do have two PDB drafts in progress that aren't yet ready to > publish, draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb-ar-01.txt and draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb > -bh-03.txt. Both need to have their experience sections filled in > before they can be advanced to RFC, but they are still "alive" as > documents and list discussion, particularly of experience, is still > relevant. We note that the next revision of the Bulk Handling PDB > draft is in Roland Bless's hands (to add experience) and, we believe, > is expected in Jan or Feb or 02. Just a quick confirmation that Jan/Feb 02 is reasonable. Currently, some more simulations are done, some first results of using Limited Effort in a multicast context are also listed in Appendix B of draft-bless-diffserv-multicast-02.txt. Implementation experience is possibly also gathered by Internet2 people with their QBSS, but I couldn't find any pointer in the qbss definition to the BH or LE drafts, although it seems to be derived from our inital proposal. So we are not sure whether we could/should include a section about QBSS experience. Furthermore, we think that it would be a good idea to rename Bulk Handling PDB into Limited Effort PDB, because BH may be a little bit misleading for its potential application cases. Regards, Roland and Klaus -- Roland Bless -- e-Mail: bless@tm.uka.de Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany Zirkel 2, D-76128 Karlsruhe -- Office: Bld. 20.20, 3rd floor, R 358 Phone: +49 721 608-6413 Fax: +49 721 388097 _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 4 14:28:01 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08126 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA00827 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:28:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00074; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA00039 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:01:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06913 for ; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:01:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ipv16 (as1-98.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.156.98]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id NAA17796; Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:00:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <07fc01c17cf7$bd2269c0$a300a8c0@ipv16> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Kathleen Nichols" , "Roland Bless" Cc: , References: <3C05396E.FD3AEB35@packetdesign.com> <200112041709.fB4H9oU14294@i72pc127.tm.uka.de> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Diffserv at SLC and in future Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:13:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > nichols@packetdesign.com said: > > We do have two PDB drafts in progress that aren't yet ready to > > publish, draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb-ar-01.txt and draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb > > -bh-03.txt. Both need to have their experience sections filled in Is there any running code ? This may help... http://www.dot-biz.com/IPv4/Tutorial/ The Netfilter Project: Packet Mangling for Linux 2.4 http://netfilter.samba.org Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info IPv16....One Better !! _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Sun Dec 9 09:24:30 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01007 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA01280 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00497; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:06:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00469 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:06:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f294.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.169]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA00798 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:06:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:05:47 -0800 Received: from 141.213.8.57 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 14:05:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.213.8.57] From: "Mohamed El Gendy" To: diffserv@ietf.org Subject: Fwd: [Diffserv] Diffserv at SLC and in future Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 16:05:47 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2001 14:05:47.0517 (UTC) FILETIME=[99C4D2D0:01C180BA] Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org


-- Mohamed >From: Kathleen Nichols >To: diffserv@ietf.org >Subject: [Diffserv] Diffserv at SLC and in future >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:22:22 -0800 > > >Diffservers, > >We have decided not to hold a diffserv WG meeting at the >Salt Lake City IETF. > >As you know, the two documents we had in WG Last Call have passed >with minor comments. This means that the WG has effectively completed >all its milestones. All our drafts except one are on the way to >RFC publication. The differentiated services story isn't over, >but this WG has essentially finished the job it was set up to do >in early 1998. > >We do have two PDB drafts in progress that aren't yet >ready to publish, draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb-ar-01.txt and >draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb-bh-03.txt. Both need to have >their experience sections filled in before they can >be advanced to RFC, but they are still "alive" as >documents and list discussion, particularly of experience, >is still relevant. We note that the next revision of >the Bulk Handling PDB draft is in Roland Bless's hands (to >add experience) and, we believe, is expected in Jan or Feb or 02. >Draft-ietf-diffserv-pdb-vw is dormant at this time >since the co-authors did major revision of a >PDB definition for circuit emulation. This may be resurrected >with an experience section in the future. > >When PDB drafts are ready in terms of the guidelines in >RFC 3086, they should be posted as drafts and discussed by email >on this list. > >Another potential use of the diffserv list is to raise issues >that are barriers to implementation and require further IETF >action, but such should not be confused with general implementation >questions, which should go to the ds-implmentation list. We >(especially BC) will be quick to let you know if you have the >wrong list! > >You may also be interested by draft-conta-diffserv-fl-classifier-01.txt. >However, since the diffserv MIB already allows an IPv6 flow label as >a classifier element, we probably do not need any additional standards >action in this area. > >Regards > Brian Carpenter > Kathie Nichols > diffserv WG co-chairs > >_______________________________________________ >diffserv mailing list >diffserv@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv >Archive: >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Sun Dec 9 10:12:33 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA01004 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA01284 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:24:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00545; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA00514 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from hotmail.com (f285.law10.hotmail.com [64.4.14.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA00814 for ; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 09:08:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 9 Dec 2001 06:07:55 -0800 Received: from 141.213.8.57 by lw10fd.law10.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 09 Dec 2001 14:07:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [141.213.8.57] From: "Mohamed El Gendy" To: diffserv@ietf.org Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 16:07:55 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2001 14:07:55.0722 (UTC) FILETIME=[E62F5AA0:01C180BA] Subject: [Diffserv] A mistake! Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org I am sorry for the "wrong" forwarded email. Please discard my previous email which is a forward of an old one. I appologize! -- Mohamed _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 10 11:30:12 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04688 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:30:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA22782 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:29:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21704; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21675 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04195 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:03:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA04528; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:03:17 +0100 Received: from gsine06.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA26240 from ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:03:14 +0100 Message-Id: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:03:09 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Diff Serv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diffservers, As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be forwarded to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area Directors: Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send me a private response. Thanks Brian Carpenter diffserv co-chair _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 10 11:45:53 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05269 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA24770 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:45:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22775; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22743 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk [131.227.76.5]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04654 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:29:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.88.14] ident=eep1lw) by prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16DTId-0001a8-00; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:29:03 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:29:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Lloyd Wood X-X-Sender: eep1lw@phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk Reply-To: Lloyd Wood To: Brian E Carpenter cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG In-Reply-To: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Message-ID: Organization: speaking for none X-url: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/ X-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *16DTId-0001a8-00*jKxwx4g4t3s* (SECM, UniS) Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Diffservers, > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will > be forwarded to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > Directors: > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already > done so) please let us know? Brian, doesn't this sort of implementation question really belong on the diffserv implementation list? Please see http://www.atnf.csiro.au/news/exploders/dsimplementation.html > If you don't want to answer on the list, can't think why... L. > please send me a private response. > > Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair PGP _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 10 12:11:11 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05764 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA27481 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25347; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25318 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:55:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05448 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA04398; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:54:50 +0100 Received: from gsine06.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA28872 from ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:54:46 +0100 Message-Id: <3C14E8D3.F8019468@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:54:43 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Lloyd Wood Cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd, No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors as part of the IESG's decision process. Brian Lloyd Wood wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > > Diffservers, > > > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will > > be forwarded to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > > Directors: > > > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already > > done so) please let us know? > > Brian, doesn't this sort of implementation question really belong on > the diffserv implementation list? Please see > http://www.atnf.csiro.au/news/exploders/dsimplementation.html > > > If you don't want to answer on the list, > > can't think why... > > L. > > > please send me a private response. > > > > Thanks > > Brian Carpenter > > diffserv co-chair > > PGP _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 10 12:31:50 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06306 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA29342 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:31:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27543; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:11:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27519 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:11:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from usc.edu (root@usc.edu [128.125.253.136]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05796 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:11:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from aludra.usc.edu (demir@aludra.usc.edu [128.125.253.184]) by usc.edu (8.9.3.1/8.9.3/usc) with ESMTP id JAA03830; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demir@localhost) by aludra.usc.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1/usc) with ESMTP id fBAHC3905565; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:12:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: demir To: Lloyd Wood cc: Brian E Carpenter , Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Lloyd, I don't think it does cause It says "who plans to implement.". I have a suggestion. May be there should be "DiffservPlanToImplement" discussion group so that this sort of questions can be directed to that discussion group :) :) Alper K. Demir On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Lloyd Wood wrote: > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > > Diffservers, > > > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will > > be forwarded to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > > Directors: > > > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already > > done so) please let us know? > > Brian, doesn't this sort of implementation question really belong on > the diffserv implementation list? Please see > http://www.atnf.csiro.au/news/exploders/dsimplementation.html > > > > If you don't want to answer on the list, > > can't think why... > > L. > > > please send me a private response. > > > > Thanks > > Brian Carpenter > > diffserv co-chair > > PGP > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 10 13:13:11 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07322 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA01873 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00964; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:00:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00905 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06946 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-48.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.48]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id LAA00452; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:59:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <030c01c181a6$575f4460$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , "Diff Serv" References: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:13:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW, while on the subject of TCP, Qs, etc. It seems rather odd that people engrossed in protocols, would not consider the long history of making sure that layers are preserved or at least considered. You may have heard of Layer 2 (Network) and Layer 3 (Transport). It would seem that much of the work on Queues and the shaping of flows would most properly be located in Layer 3. The additions we are making to Layer 2, focus on extending the addressing and other functionality of Layer 2. It seems that Layer 2 will not have enough bits to accommodate all of the ideas that people are pouring into it. This may help... http://www.dot-biz.com/IPv4/Tutorial/ http://www.dot-biz.com/RepliGate/RIFRAF/ RIFRAF Routing RIFRAF (Remote Identification Field Random Action Filter) Routing is part of a phased approach to evolving from 32-bit IPv4 Internet Addressing to larger address spaces. The RIFRAF feature in an IP stack, allows for remote access control of the left-most 8-bits of the normally 16-bit IPv4 Identification Field. The feature is part of the IPv8 PeaceKeeper/GateKeeper series. The feature allows a PeaceKeeper for a /16 prefix to remotely set StarGate values in a marking engine via simple ICMP+ extensions via the TOS field. The 4-bit StarGate values are rotated through an 8-bit field which is used in a 50/50 coin-toss marking process as packets are processed with the /16 prefix. Source and Destination StarGate marking is distinct, and all 65,536 /16 prefixes have two choices for the source addresses and two choices for destination addresses. The random marking can be prevented by loading both StarGate values to be the same. The GateKeeper can be restored to legacy Identification Field marking by the PeaceKeeper. Packets marked via RIFRAF can be further routed or queued based on the marks which effectively add 4 bits to the 32-bit IPv4 legacy addresses. All of the packets pass transparently through legacy IPv4 equipment with no change. For legacy equipment not prepared to handle the markings, it appears as the left 8-bits of the Identification Field. For each of the 256 marking values, an independent counter is maintained for the right-most 8-bits of the Identification Field. There is no API required or other user-level tools. RIFRAF can exist silently inside of the stack and be totally controlled remotely via existing connection(s) to the IPv4 private Intranets or the IPv4 Global Public Internet. Spoofing of the PeaceKeeper is possible and the PeaceKeeper will receive the return reply, at which point the PeaceKeeper can restore the desired values. When RIFRAF is used in conjunction with other routing devices and on an IPv16 network, these problems can be minimized. RIFRAF is mostly intended for use in extending the addressing of leaf-nodes, which generally are protected behind fire-walls and NAT devices, but can also be used on the IPv4 Global Public Internet to increase the addressing used by edge devices on /16 networks. Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info IPv16....One Better !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian E Carpenter" To: "Diff Serv" Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:03 AM Subject: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > Diffservers, > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be forwarded > to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area Directors: > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) > please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send > me a private response. > > Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 20:05:43 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29189 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA18781 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17870; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:54:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17845 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:54:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (fmfdns02.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA28940 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:54:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxv042-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.48.110]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.46 2001/10/25 21:02:55 root Exp $) with SMTP id AAA17157 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:54:21 GMT Received: from FMSMSX017.fm.intel.com ([132.233.42.196]) by fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.16) with SMTP id M2001121116553715148 ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:55:37 -0800 Received: by fmsmsx017.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:54:20 -0800 Message-ID: <59885C5E3098D511AD690002A5072D3C01901140@orsmsx111.jf.intel.com> From: "Hahn, Scott" To: Brian E Carpenter , Diff Serv Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:53:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Intel has an implementation of COPS-PR and an early implementation of the diffserv PIB. We do plan on updating our implementation to the standard when it becomes available. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:03 AM > To: Diff Serv > Subject: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > Diffservers, > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, > and will be forwarded > to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and > Management Area Directors: > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has > already done so) > please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, > please send > me a private response. > > Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: > http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/curr ent/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 20:05:43 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29188 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA18782 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:05:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17440; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:42:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17408 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (fmfdns02.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA28665 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:41:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from fmsmsxvs041.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxv041-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.48.109]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.46 2001/10/25 21:02:55 root Exp $) with SMTP id AAA12595 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:41:44 GMT Received: from fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com ([132.233.42.26]) by fmsmsxvs041.fm.intel.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.16) with SMTP id M2001121116425024827 ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:42:50 -0800 Received: by fmsmsx26.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:41:42 -0800 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE99870DA5DC72@FMSMSX34> From: "Durham, David" To: "'Lloyd Wood'" , Brian E Carpenter Cc: Diff Serv Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:41:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Answering "on the list" could be potentially giving away a company's strategy or future product lineup... That's why not on the list would be more acceptable. -Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: Lloyd Wood [mailto:l.wood@eim.surrey.ac.uk] > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:29 AM > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: Diff Serv > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > > Diffservers, > > > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will > > be forwarded to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > > Directors: > > > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already > > done so) please let us know? > > Brian, doesn't this sort of implementation question really belong on > the diffserv implementation list? Please see > http://www.atnf.csiro.au/news/exploders/dsimplementation.html > > > > If you don't want to answer on the list, > > can't think why... > > L. > > > please send me a private response. > > > > Thanks > > Brian Carpenter > > diffserv co-chair > > PGP > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: > http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/curr ent/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 21:29:02 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00560 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA22655 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22002; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:19:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA21971 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00374 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:19:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-vcaul11.dsl.mindspring.com ([216.175.84.33] helo=ANDREWHOME) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16DyzA-00054z-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:19:04 -0800 From: "Andrew Smith" To: "Jim Fleming" , "Diff Serv" Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:44:09 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <030c01c181a6$575f4460$1000a8c0@Unir.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, What is it in the definitions of "Layer 2" and "Layer 3" that you are using that makes you put queueing and shaping of "flows" (your word, not mine) at one or other of these layers? Do you really subscribe to the flat-earth-society view that an internet is made up of perfect links with infinite capacity and zero propagation delays, joined together by IP switching nodes that are the only places that can affect the propagation of packets across the internet? That view is a little outdated today. The issue of "not enough bits at a given layer" is irrelevant - in most common internet architectures those bits are used purely for classification purposes at a switching node: those nodes can use whatever information is deemed appropriate, whether it be explicit in each packet (or packet fragment in some obselete technologies :-)) or implicitly carried by some other state (e.g. the arrival interface number). Andrew Smith -----Original Message----- From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Jim Fleming Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:13 AM To: Brian E Carpenter; Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG BTW, while on the subject of TCP, Qs, etc. It seems rather odd that people engrossed in protocols, would not consider the long history of making sure that layers are preserved or at least considered. You may have heard of Layer 2 (Network) and Layer 3 (Transport). It would seem that much of the work on Queues and the shaping of flows would most properly be located in Layer 3. The additions we are making to Layer 2, focus on extending the addressing and other functionality of Layer 2. It seems that Layer 2 will not have enough bits to accommodate all of the ideas that people are pouring into it. _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 21:29:16 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00578 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA22681 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22140; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22111 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:21:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00424 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-vcaul11.dsl.mindspring.com ([216.175.84.33] helo=ANDREWHOME) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Dyqv-000723-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:10:33 -0800 From: "Andrew Smith" To: "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Diff Serv" Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:35:38 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3C14E8D3.F8019468@hursley.ibm.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian, Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's only "proposed standard" that is being sought - have They changed the rules? It used to be that such implementation experience was only requested when "draft standard" status was sought. Andrew Smith -----Original Message----- From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM To: Lloyd Wood Cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Lloyd, No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors as part of the IESG's decision process. Brian _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 11 22:25:32 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA02131 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA24876 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24574; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24543 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA02025 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-243.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.243]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id VAA10303; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:16:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <001b01c182bd$38e2c4e0$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Andrew Smith" , "Diff Serv" References: Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think we agree. Classification is what RIFRAF Routing uses. http://www.dot-biz.com/IPv4/Tutorial/ http://www.RepliGate.net The Netfilter Project: Packet Mangling for Linux 2.4 http://netfilter.samba.org Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info IPv16....One Better !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Smith" To: "Jim Fleming" ; "Diff Serv" Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > Jim, > > What is it in the definitions of "Layer 2" and "Layer 3" that you are using > that makes you put queueing and shaping of "flows" (your word, not mine) at > one or other of these layers? Do you really subscribe to the > flat-earth-society view that an internet is made up of perfect links with > infinite capacity and zero propagation delays, joined together by IP > switching nodes that are the only places that can affect the propagation of > packets across the internet? That view is a little outdated today. > > The issue of "not enough bits at a given layer" is irrelevant - in most > common internet architectures those bits are used purely for classification > purposes at a switching node: those nodes can use whatever information is > deemed appropriate, whether it be explicit in each packet (or packet > fragment in some obselete technologies :-)) or implicitly carried by some > other state (e.g. the arrival interface number). > > Andrew Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > Of Jim Fleming > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:13 AM > To: Brian E Carpenter; Diff Serv > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > BTW, while on the subject of TCP, Qs, etc. It seems rather odd that people > engrossed in protocols, would not consider the long history of making sure > that > layers are preserved or at least considered. You may have heard of Layer 2 > (Network) and Layer 3 (Transport). It would seem that much of the work on > Queues and the shaping of flows would most properly be located in Layer 3. > The additions we are making to Layer 2, focus on extending the addressing > and other functionality of Layer 2. It seems that Layer 2 will not have > enough > bits to accommodate all of the ideas that people are pouring into it. > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 10:15:59 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08019 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:15:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA23343 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:15:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22116; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22084 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:50:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06028 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA18410; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:49:31 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA34898 from ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:49:27 +0100 Message-Id: <3C176E73.AABAE314@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:49:23 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Smith Cc: Diff Serv , Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We aren't there yet. Brian Andrew Smith wrote: > > Brian, > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's only "proposed > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the rules? It used to be > that such implementation experience was only requested when "draft standard" > status was sought. > > Andrew Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > Of Brian E Carpenter > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > To: Lloyd Wood > Cc: Diff Serv > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > Lloyd, > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > Brian > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 10:51:41 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10904 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA24966 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:51:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23819; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23788 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from auemail2.firewall.lucent.com (auemail2.lucent.com [192.11.223.163]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09242 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:30:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by auemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id fBCFU1D14919 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:30:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:30:00 +0100 Message-ID: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBBA9@nl0006exch002u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith Cc: Diff Serv , Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:29:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Right... to be very clear - we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. - we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked me about that) - what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real plans in the short term to implement the PIB Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:49 PM > To: Andrew Smith > Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > aren't there yet. > > Brian > > Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > Brian, > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > only "proposed > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > rules? It used to be > > that such implementation experience was only requested when > "draft standard" > > status was sought. > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > To: Lloyd Wood > > Cc: Diff Serv > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > Lloyd, > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > Area Directors > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:00:39 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14547 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA02366 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:00:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00987; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00926 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.157]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14057 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:43:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars04e.ca.nortel.com (zcars04e.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.56]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCHgpF15150 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcard00m.ca.nortel.com by zcars04e.ca.nortel.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:43:24 -0500 Received: from zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com ([132.245.205.52]) by zcard00m.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2JTGZH5; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:04 -0500 Received: from tweedy.NortelNetworks.com (artpt5zn.us.nortel.com [47.140.53.182]) by zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id XRGW5BC4; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:03 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912100651.02a54e00@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: khchan@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:27:36 -0600 To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush In-Reply-To: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBBA9@nl0006exch002u.nl .lucent.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Orig: Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org I have the following comments on this topic: 1. When did IETF started asking attendees for their product plans? 2. I remember that inter-operability tests and "bake-offs" was outside the business of IETF and has been done that way as far as I remember. 3. We have held the initial COPS-PR and initial PIB inter-operability test already and people have been asking me when should we do a second one. The logical answer is after the relevant drafts are RFCed. This is outside the realm of IETF. 4. Why the difference and need for short term, long term product plan info? I don't think this should be public info. :) -- Kwok -- At 04:29 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: >Right... to be very clear >- we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. >- we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked > me about that) >- what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real > plans in the short term to implement the PIB > >Bert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:49 PM > > To: Andrew Smith > > Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > aren't there yet. > > > > Brian > > > > Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > > only "proposed > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > > rules? It used to be > > > that such implementation experience was only requested when > > "draft standard" > > > status was sought. > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > > Area Directors > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >diffserv mailing list >diffserv@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv >Archive: >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:00:39 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14546 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:00:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA02361 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:00:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00961; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:44:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00920 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:44:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.157]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14056 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:43:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars04f.ca.nortel.com (zcars04f.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.57]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCHgpF15135 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from zbl6c012.us.nortel.com (actually zbl6c012.corpeast.baynetworks.com) by zcars04f.ca.nortel.com; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:43:26 -0500 Received: from zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com ([132.245.205.52]) by zbl6c012.us.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id YXCM1VP5; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:03 -0500 Received: from tweedy.NortelNetworks.com (artpt5zn.us.nortel.com [47.140.53.182]) by zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id XRGW5BCW; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:42:05 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912102814.029b3850@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: khchan@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:40:37 -0600 To: Brian E Carpenter From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Cc: Diff Serv In-Reply-To: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Orig: Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Brian: I think you have the duty to keep the info provided as reply to your question private when asked. As condition to replying to your question, I need you indicate the info will only be used just as one of the counts, and no indication of what company is implementing what. We have proto-typed both the DiffServ MIB and PIB and have plan on continuing the effort into creation of revenue. We are also thinking of inter-op testing with other vendors who have shown interest. But I must keep those info private as I have make my promises. I hope you will do the same. FYI: 3G Wireless will also use the DiffServ PIB. -- Kwok -- At 05:03 PM 12/10/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >Diffservers, > >As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be >forwarded >to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > >Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area >Directors: > >Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) >please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send >me a private response. > >Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair > >_______________________________________________ >diffserv mailing list >diffserv@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv >Archive: >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:40:18 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15457 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA05359 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:40:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03870; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:22:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03765 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15082 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-243.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.243]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id MAA21523; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:19:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <05b301c1833b$27addf60$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , "Kwok-Ho Chan" Cc: "Diff Serv" References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912102814.029b3850@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:31:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The "one true IPv4 core transport" is the collection of all networks that transparently pass all of the TOS and Protocol values, as well as the RIRRAF Routing values in the Identification Field. All other networks have to be considered private or not fully connected. They are running some sort of "alternate" protocols, just like alt DNS. RIFRAF Routing RIFRAF (Remote Identification Field Random Action Filter) Routing is part of a phased approach to evolving from 32-bit IPv4 Internet Addressing to larger address spaces. The RIFRAF feature in an IP stack, allows for remote access control of the left-most 8-bits of the normally 16-bit IPv4 Identification Field. The feature is part of the IPv8 PeaceKeeper/GateKeeper series. The feature allows a PeaceKeeper for a /16 prefix to remotely set StarGate values in a marking engine via simple ICMP+ extensions via the TOS field. The 4-bit StarGate values are rotated through an 8-bit field which is used in a 50/50 coin-toss marking process as packets are processed with the /16 prefix. Source and Destination StarGate marking is distinct, and all 65,536 /16 prefixes have two choices for the source addresses and two choices for destination addresses. The random marking can be prevented by loading both StarGate values to be the same. The GateKeeper can be restored to legacy Identification Field marking by the PeaceKeeper. Packets marked via RIFRAF can be further routed or queued based on the marks which effectively add 4 bits to the 32-bit IPv4 legacy addresses. All of the packets pass transparently through legacy IPv4 equipment with no change. For legacy equipment not prepared to handle the markings, it appears as the left 8-bits of the Identification Field. For each of the 256 marking values, an independent counter is maintained for the right-most 8-bits of the Identification Field. There is no API required or other user-level tools. Most modern "ping" programs can be used to set the bits. RIFRAF can exist silently inside of the stack and be totally controlled remotely via existing connection(s) to the IPv4 private Intranets or the IPv4 Global Public Internet. Spoofing of the PeaceKeeper is possible and the real PeaceKeeper will receive the return reply, at which point the PeaceKeeper can restore the desired values. When RIFRAF is used in conjunction with other routing devices and on an IPv16 network, these problems can be minimized. RIFRAF is mostly intended for use in extending the addressing of leaf-nodes, which generally are protected behind fire-walls and NAT devices, but can also be used on the IPv4 Global Public Internet to increase the addressing used by edge devices on /16 networks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" To: "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Diff Serv" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > Brian: > I think you have the duty to keep the info provided as reply to your > question private when asked. > > As condition to replying to your question, I need you indicate the > info will only be used just as one of the counts, and no indication > of what company is implementing what. > > We have proto-typed both the DiffServ MIB and PIB and have plan > on continuing the effort into creation of revenue. > We are also thinking of inter-op testing with other vendors who > have shown interest. > But I must keep those info private as I have make my promises. > I hope you will do the same. > > FYI: 3G Wireless will also use the DiffServ PIB. > > -- Kwok -- > > > At 05:03 PM 12/10/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >Diffservers, > > > >As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be > >forwarded > >to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > > >Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > >Directors: > > > >Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) > >please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send > >me a private response. > > > >Thanks > > Brian Carpenter > > diffserv co-chair > > > >_______________________________________________ > >diffserv mailing list > >diffserv@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > >Archive: > >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 13:46:49 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15572 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:46:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA05588 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:46:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03685; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:19:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA03657 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:19:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15021 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:19:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-243.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.243]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id MAA20131; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:16:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <059b01c1833a$c4d7bfa0$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)" , "Kwok-Ho Chan" Cc: "Brian E Carpenter" , "Andrew Smith" , "Diff Serv" , "Bert Wijnen" , "Randy Bush" References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912100651.02a54e00@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:28:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may help... http://www.dot-biz.com/IPv4/Tutorial/ http://www.RepliGate.net The Netfilter Project: Packet Mangling for Linux 2.4 http://netfilter.samba.org Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info IPv16....One Better !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Root" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:45 AM > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip.h netinet/ip.h > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip.h Wed Dec 22 19:13:20 1999 > --- netinet/ip.h Tue Dec 11 13:59:38 2001 > *************** > *** 43,48 **** > --- 43,53 ---- > */ > #define IPVERSION 4 > > + #define IPXX_V4 4 > + #define IPXX_V5 5 > + #define IPXX_V7 7 > + #define IPXX_V8 8 > + > /* > * Structure of an internet header, naked of options. > */ > *************** > *** 61,73 **** > #endif /* not _IP_VHL */ > u_char ip_tos; /* type of service */ > u_short ip_len; /* total length */ > ! u_short ip_id; /* identification */ > u_short ip_off; /* fragment offset field */ > #define IP_RF 0x8000 /* reserved fragment flag */ > #define IP_DF 0x4000 /* dont fragment flag */ > #define IP_MF 0x2000 /* more fragments flag */ > #define IP_OFFMASK 0x1fff /* mask for fragmenting bits */ > u_char ip_ttl; /* time to live */ > u_char ip_p; /* protocol */ > u_short ip_sum; /* checksum */ > struct in_addr ip_src,ip_dst; /* source and dest address */ > --- 66,89 ---- > #endif /* not _IP_VHL */ > u_char ip_tos; /* type of service */ > u_short ip_len; /* total length */ > ! #define IPXX_UNIRVERSE_DEFAULT 0 /* Default IPv8 UnirVerse Value */ > ! u_char ip_gate; /* UnirVerse/StarGate */ > ! u_char ip_id; /* identification */ > u_short ip_off; /* fragment offset field */ > + #define IPXX_FLAG 0x8000 /* IPvXX flag */ > #define IP_RF 0x8000 /* reserved fragment flag */ > #define IP_DF 0x4000 /* dont fragment flag */ > #define IP_MF 0x2000 /* more fragments flag */ > #define IP_OFFMASK 0x1fff /* mask for fragmenting bits */ > u_char ip_ttl; /* time to live */ > + #define IPXX_GALAXY 033 /* IPv8 Galaxy Value for 3:219 .INFO */ > + #define IPXX_P_MASK 0x3F > + #define IPXX_ICMP_VAL 1 > + #define IPXX_ICMP_FLAG 0x40 > + #define IPXX_TCP_VAL 6 > + #define IPXX_TCP_FLAG 0x80 > + #define IPXX_UDP_VAL 16 > + #define IPXX_UDP_FLAG 0xC0 > u_char ip_p; /* protocol */ > u_short ip_sum; /* checksum */ > struct in_addr ip_src,ip_dst; /* source and dest address */ > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip_icmp.c netinet/ip_icmp.c > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip_icmp.c Tue Jul 3 11:01:46 2001 > --- netinet/ip_icmp.c Tue Dec 11 14:00:00 2001 > *************** > *** 121,132 **** > #endif > > static void icmp_reflect __P((struct mbuf *)); > ! static void icmp_send __P((struct mbuf *, struct mbuf *)); > static int ip_next_mtu __P((int, int)); > > extern struct protosw inetsw[]; > > /* > * Generate an error packet of type error > * in response to bad packet ip. > */ > --- 121,396 ---- > #endif > > static void icmp_reflect __P((struct mbuf *)); > ! static void icmp_send __P((struct mbuf *, struct mbuf *, int)); > static int ip_next_mtu __P((int, int)); > > extern struct protosw inetsw[]; > > /* > + * Table used to reverse the 4-bit source and destination values > + * in the 8-bit TOS field. > + */ > + > + unsigned char reverse_nibbles[256] = { > + /*00*/ 0x00, > + /*01*/ 0x10, > + /*02*/ 0x20, > + /*03*/ 0x30, > + /*04*/ 0x40, > + /*05*/ 0x50, > + /*06*/ 0x60, > + /*07*/ 0x70, > + /*08*/ 0x80, > + /*09*/ 0x90, > + /*0a*/ 0xa0, > + /*0b*/ 0xb0, > + /*0c*/ 0xc0, > + /*0d*/ 0xd0, > + /*0e*/ 0xe0, > + /*0f*/ 0xf0, > + /*10*/ 0x01, > + /*11*/ 0x11, > + /*12*/ 0x21, > + /*13*/ 0x31, > + /*14*/ 0x41, > + /*15*/ 0x51, > + /*16*/ 0x61, > + /*17*/ 0x71, > + /*18*/ 0x81, > + /*19*/ 0x91, > + /*1a*/ 0xa1, > + /*1b*/ 0xb1, > + /*1c*/ 0xc1, > + /*1d*/ 0xd1, > + /*1e*/ 0xe1, > + /*1f*/ 0xf1, > + /*20*/ 0x02, > + /*21*/ 0x12, > + /*22*/ 0x22, > + /*23*/ 0x32, > + /*24*/ 0x42, > + /*25*/ 0x52, > + /*26*/ 0x62, > + /*27*/ 0x72, > + /*28*/ 0x82, > + /*29*/ 0x92, > + /*2a*/ 0xa2, > + /*2b*/ 0xb2, > + /*2c*/ 0xc2, > + /*2d*/ 0xd2, > + /*2e*/ 0xe2, > + /*2f*/ 0xf2, > + /*30*/ 0x03, > + /*31*/ 0x13, > + /*32*/ 0x23, > + /*33*/ 0x33, > + /*34*/ 0x43, > + /*35*/ 0x53, > + /*36*/ 0x63, > + /*37*/ 0x73, > + /*38*/ 0x83, > + /*39*/ 0x93, > + /*3a*/ 0xa3, > + /*3b*/ 0xb3, > + /*3c*/ 0xc3, > + /*3d*/ 0xd3, > + /*3e*/ 0xe3, > + /*3f*/ 0xf3, > + /*40*/ 0x04, > + /*41*/ 0x14, > + /*42*/ 0x24, > + /*43*/ 0x34, > + /*44*/ 0x44, > + /*45*/ 0x54, > + /*46*/ 0x64, > + /*47*/ 0x74, > + /*48*/ 0x84, > + /*49*/ 0x94, > + /*4a*/ 0xa4, > + /*4b*/ 0xb4, > + /*4c*/ 0xc4, > + /*4d*/ 0xd4, > + /*4e*/ 0xe4, > + /*4f*/ 0xf4, > + /*50*/ 0x05, > + /*51*/ 0x15, > + /*52*/ 0x25, > + /*53*/ 0x35, > + /*54*/ 0x45, > + /*55*/ 0x55, > + /*56*/ 0x65, > + /*57*/ 0x75, > + /*58*/ 0x85, > + /*59*/ 0x95, > + /*5a*/ 0xa5, > + /*5b*/ 0xb5, > + /*5c*/ 0xc5, > + /*5d*/ 0xd5, > + /*5e*/ 0xe5, > + /*5f*/ 0xf5, > + /*60*/ 0x06, > + /*61*/ 0x16, > + /*62*/ 0x26, > + /*63*/ 0x36, > + /*64*/ 0x46, > + /*65*/ 0x56, > + /*66*/ 0x66, > + /*67*/ 0x76, > + /*68*/ 0x86, > + /*69*/ 0x96, > + /*6a*/ 0xa6, > + /*6b*/ 0xb6, > + /*6c*/ 0xc6, > + /*6d*/ 0xd6, > + /*6e*/ 0xe6, > + /*6f*/ 0xf6, > + /*70*/ 0x07, > + /*71*/ 0x17, > + /*72*/ 0x27, > + /*73*/ 0x37, > + /*74*/ 0x47, > + /*75*/ 0x57, > + /*76*/ 0x67, > + /*77*/ 0x77, > + /*78*/ 0x87, > + /*79*/ 0x97, > + /*7a*/ 0xa7, > + /*7b*/ 0xb7, > + /*7c*/ 0xc7, > + /*7d*/ 0xd7, > + /*7e*/ 0xe7, > + /*7f*/ 0xf7, > + /*80*/ 0x08, > + /*81*/ 0x18, > + /*82*/ 0x28, > + /*83*/ 0x38, > + /*84*/ 0x48, > + /*85*/ 0x58, > + /*86*/ 0x68, > + /*87*/ 0x78, > + /*88*/ 0x88, > + /*89*/ 0x98, > + /*8a*/ 0xa8, > + /*8b*/ 0xb8, > + /*8c*/ 0xc8, > + /*8d*/ 0xd8, > + /*8e*/ 0xe8, > + /*8f*/ 0xf8, > + /*90*/ 0x09, > + /*91*/ 0x19, > + /*92*/ 0x29, > + /*93*/ 0x39, > + /*94*/ 0x49, > + /*95*/ 0x59, > + /*96*/ 0x69, > + /*97*/ 0x79, > + /*98*/ 0x89, > + /*99*/ 0x99, > + /*9a*/ 0xa9, > + /*9b*/ 0xb9, > + /*9c*/ 0xc9, > + /*9d*/ 0xd9, > + /*9e*/ 0xe9, > + /*9f*/ 0xf9, > + /*a0*/ 0x0a, > + /*a1*/ 0x1a, > + /*a2*/ 0x2a, > + /*a3*/ 0x3a, > + /*a4*/ 0x4a, > + /*a5*/ 0x5a, > + /*a6*/ 0x6a, > + /*a7*/ 0x7a, > + /*a8*/ 0x8a, > + /*a9*/ 0x9a, > + /*aa*/ 0xaa, > + /*ab*/ 0xba, > + /*ac*/ 0xca, > + /*ad*/ 0xda, > + /*ae*/ 0xea, > + /*af*/ 0xfa, > + /*b0*/ 0x0b, > + /*b1*/ 0x1b, > + /*b2*/ 0x2b, > + /*b3*/ 0x3b, > + /*b4*/ 0x4b, > + /*b5*/ 0x5b, > + /*b6*/ 0x6b, > + /*b7*/ 0x7b, > + /*b8*/ 0x8b, > + /*b9*/ 0x9b, > + /*ba*/ 0xab, > + /*bb*/ 0xbb, > + /*bc*/ 0xcb, > + /*bd*/ 0xdb, > + /*be*/ 0xeb, > + /*bf*/ 0xfb, > + /*c0*/ 0x0c, > + /*c1*/ 0x1c, > + /*c2*/ 0x2c, > + /*c3*/ 0x3c, > + /*c4*/ 0x4c, > + /*c5*/ 0x5c, > + /*c6*/ 0x6c, > + /*c7*/ 0x7c, > + /*c8*/ 0x8c, > + /*c9*/ 0x9c, > + /*ca*/ 0xac, > + /*cb*/ 0xbc, > + /*cc*/ 0xcc, > + /*cd*/ 0xdc, > + /*ce*/ 0xec, > + /*cf*/ 0xfc, > + /*d0*/ 0x0d, > + /*d1*/ 0x1d, > + /*d2*/ 0x2d, > + /*d3*/ 0x3d, > + /*d4*/ 0x4d, > + /*d5*/ 0x5d, > + /*d6*/ 0x6d, > + /*d7*/ 0x7d, > + /*d8*/ 0x8d, > + /*d9*/ 0x9d, > + /*da*/ 0xad, > + /*db*/ 0xbd, > + /*dc*/ 0xcd, > + /*dd*/ 0xdd, > + /*de*/ 0xed, > + /*df*/ 0xfd, > + /*e0*/ 0x0e, > + /*e1*/ 0x1e, > + /*e2*/ 0x2e, > + /*e3*/ 0x3e, > + /*e4*/ 0x4e, > + /*e5*/ 0x5e, > + /*e6*/ 0x6e, > + /*e7*/ 0x7e, > + /*e8*/ 0x8e, > + /*e9*/ 0x9e, > + /*ea*/ 0xae, > + /*eb*/ 0xbe, > + /*ec*/ 0xce, > + /*ed*/ 0xde, > + /*ee*/ 0xee, > + /*ef*/ 0xfe, > + /*f0*/ 0x0f, > + /*f1*/ 0x1f, > + /*f2*/ 0x2f, > + /*f3*/ 0x3f, > + /*f4*/ 0x4f, > + /*f5*/ 0x5f, > + /*f6*/ 0x6f, > + /*f7*/ 0x7f, > + /*f8*/ 0x8f, > + /*f9*/ 0x9f, > + /*fa*/ 0xaf, > + /*fb*/ 0xbf, > + /*fc*/ 0xcf, > + /*fd*/ 0xdf, > + /*fe*/ 0xef, > + /*ff*/ 0xff > + }; > + > + /* > * Generate an error packet of type error > * in response to bad packet ip. > */ > *************** > *** 226,232 **** > nip->ip_len = m->m_len; > nip->ip_vhl = IP_VHL_BORING; > nip->ip_p = IPPROTO_ICMP; > ! nip->ip_tos = 0; > icmp_reflect(m); > > freeit: > --- 490,496 ---- > nip->ip_len = m->m_len; > nip->ip_vhl = IP_VHL_BORING; > nip->ip_p = IPPROTO_ICMP; > ! nip->ip_tos = 0x44; /* Network Management Flow */ > icmp_reflect(m); > > freeit: > *************** > *** 610,615 **** > --- 874,880 ---- > struct in_addr t; > struct mbuf *opts = 0; > int optlen = (IP_VHL_HL(ip->ip_vhl) << 2) - sizeof(struct ip); > + int flags = 0; > > if (!in_canforward(ip->ip_src) && > ((ntohl(ip->ip_src.s_addr) & IN_CLASSA_NET) != > *************** > *** 617,622 **** > --- 882,895 ---- > m_freem(m); /* Bad return address */ > goto done; /* Ip_output() will check for broadcast */ > } > + /* Handle IPv8 TOS and UnirVerse fields */ > + if(((ip->ip_tos&0xF0)!=0) && ((ip->ip_tos&0x0F)!=0)){ > + ip->ip_tos = reverse_nibbles[ip->ip_tos]; > + if(ip->ip_gate != IPXX_UNIRVERSE_DEFAULT){ > + ip->ip_gate = reverse_nibbles[ip->ip_gate]; > + flags |= IP_UNIRVERSE_SET; > + } > + } > t = ip->ip_dst; > ip->ip_dst = ip->ip_src; > /* > *************** > *** 719,725 **** > (unsigned)(m->m_len - sizeof(struct ip))); > } > m->m_flags &= ~(M_BCAST|M_MCAST); > ! icmp_send(m, opts); > done: > if (opts) > (void)m_free(opts); > --- 992,998 ---- > (unsigned)(m->m_len - sizeof(struct ip))); > } > m->m_flags &= ~(M_BCAST|M_MCAST); > ! icmp_send(m,opts,flags); > done: > if (opts) > (void)m_free(opts); > *************** > *** 730,738 **** > * after supplying a checksum. > */ > static void > ! icmp_send(m, opts) > register struct mbuf *m; > struct mbuf *opts; > { > register struct ip *ip = mtod(m, struct ip *); > register int hlen; > --- 1003,1012 ---- > * after supplying a checksum. > */ > static void > ! icmp_send(m,opts,flags) > register struct mbuf *m; > struct mbuf *opts; > + int flags; > { > register struct ip *ip = mtod(m, struct ip *); > register int hlen; > *************** > *** 757,763 **** > } > #endif > bzero(&ro, sizeof ro); > ! (void) ip_output(m, opts, &ro, 0, NULL); > if (ro.ro_rt) > RTFREE(ro.ro_rt); > } > --- 1031,1037 ---- > } > #endif > bzero(&ro, sizeof ro); > ! (void) ip_output(m, opts, &ro, flags, NULL); > if (ro.ro_rt) > RTFREE(ro.ro_rt); > } > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip_input.c netinet/ip_input.c > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip_input.c Wed Aug 29 21:41:37 2001 > --- netinet/ip_input.c Wed Dec 12 09:57:20 2001 > *************** > *** 258,266 **** > maxnipq = nmbclusters / 4; > ip_maxfragpackets = nmbclusters / 4; > > - #ifndef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip_id = time_second & 0xffff; > ! #endif > ipintrq.ifq_maxlen = ipqmaxlen; > > register_netisr(NETISR_IP, ipintr); > --- 258,275 ---- > maxnipq = nmbclusters / 4; > ip_maxfragpackets = nmbclusters / 4; > > ip_id = time_second & 0xffff; > ! /* initialize all the StarGate id counters */ > ! for(i=0; i<256; i++){ > ! ip_id_[i] = time_second & 0xffff; > ! } > ! for(i=0; i<65536; i++){ > ! src_gate[i] = 0x00; > ! dst_gate[i] = 0x00; > ! } > ! galaxy_in=0; > ! galaxy_out=0; > ! > ipintrq.ifq_maxlen = ipqmaxlen; > > register_netisr(NETISR_IP, ipintr); > *************** > *** 269,274 **** > --- 278,285 ---- > static struct sockaddr_in ipaddr = { sizeof(ipaddr), AF_INET }; > static struct route ipforward_rt; > > + extern unsigned char reverse_nibbles[]; > + > /* > * Ip input routine. Checksum and byte swap header. If fragmented > * try to reassemble. Process options. Pass to next level. > *************** > *** 287,292 **** > --- 298,305 ---- > u_int32_t divert_info = 0; /* packet divert/tee info */ > #endif > struct ip_fw_chain *rule = NULL; > + u_int32_t src_addr; > + u_int32_t dst_addr; > > #ifdef IPDIVERT > /* Get and reset firewall cookie */ > *************** > *** 346,351 **** > --- 359,365 ---- > ip = mtod(m, struct ip *); > } > > + > /* 127/8 must not appear on wire - RFC1122 */ > if ((ntohl(ip->ip_dst.s_addr) >> IN_CLASSA_NSHIFT) == IN_LOOPBACKNET || > (ntohl(ip->ip_src.s_addr) >> IN_CLASSA_NSHIFT) == IN_LOOPBACKNET) { > *************** > *** 402,407 **** > --- 416,483 ---- > if (ipsec_gethist(m, NULL)) > goto pass; > #endif > + > + /* Process IPvXX ICMP++ packets that are special QoS codes */ > + if((ip->ip_p==IPPROTO_ICMP) && (((ip->ip_tos&0xF0)==0)||((ip->ip_tos&0x0F)==0))){ > + src_addr = ntohl(ip->ip_src.s_addr); > + dst_addr = ntohl(ip->ip_dst.s_addr); > + /* QoS(4)=Network Management */ > + switch(ip->ip_tos){ > + case 0x04: > + /* Check for Galaxy PeaceKeeper */ > + /* PPPPPPPP.PPPPPPPP.GGG00000.XXXX0000 */ > + if((src_addr&0x1F0F)==0){ > + dst_gate[src_addr>>16] >>= 4; > + dst_gate[src_addr>>16] |= src_addr&0xF0; > + /* Check for possible new Galaxy setting */ > + if(((src_addr&0x0E00)!=0)&&((src_addr&0xFFFF0000)==(dst_addr&0xFFFF0000))){ > + galaxy_out=(src_addr&0x0E00)>>8; > + log(LOG_WARNING,"Outbound Galactic Routing set to %d\n",galaxy_out); > + } > + else{ > + galaxy_out=0; > + } > + } > + break; > + case 0x40: > + /* Check for Galaxy PeaceKeeper */ > + /* PPPPPPPP.PPPPPPPP.GGG00000.XXXX0000 */ > + if((src_addr&0x1F0F)==0){ > + src_gate[src_addr>>16] >>= 4; > + src_gate[src_addr>>16] |= src_addr&0xF0; > + /* Check for possible new Galaxy setting */ > + if(((src_addr&0x0E00)!=0)&&((src_addr&0xFFFF0000)==(dst_addr&0xFFFF0000))){ > + galaxy_in=(src_addr&0x0E00)>>8; > + log(LOG_WARNING,"Inbound Galactic Routing set to %d\n",galaxy_in); > + } > + else{ > + galaxy_in=0; > + } > + } > + break; > + default: > + log(LOG_WARNING,"Unknown ICMP+ QoS Code from %s\n", > + inet_ntoa(ip->ip_src)); > + } > + } > + /* Process IPvXX-style Packets */ > + if((ip->ip_off&0x8000)!=0){ > + /* Process non-Galaxy 0 Packets */ > + if(((ip->ip_p&0xC0) != 0)&& > + ((ip->ip_p&0x07) != galaxy_in)){ > + printf("Dropped packet not from our galaxy\n"); > + ipstat.ips_badaddr++; > + goto bad; > + } > + else{ > + /* Packet is Galaxy 0, are we ? */ > + if(galaxy_in != 0){ > + printf("Dropped packet not from our galaxy\n"); > + ipstat.ips_badaddr++; > + goto bad; > + } > + } > + } > > /* > * IpHack's section. > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip_mroute.c netinet/ip_mroute.c > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip_mroute.c Thu Jul 19 06:37:26 2001 > --- netinet/ip_mroute.c Tue Dec 11 14:00:20 2001 > *************** > *** 1581,1590 **** > */ > ip_copy = mtod(mb_copy, struct ip *); > *ip_copy = multicast_encap_iphdr; > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip_copy->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > #else > ! ip_copy->ip_id = htons(ip_id++); > #endif > ip_copy->ip_len += len; > ip_copy->ip_src = vifp->v_lcl_addr; > --- 1581,1597 ---- > */ > ip_copy = mtod(mb_copy, struct ip *); > *ip_copy = multicast_encap_iphdr; > + ip_copy->ip_gate=0; > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip_copy->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > #else > ! if(ip_copy->ip_tos != 0){ > ! ip_copy->ip_id = ip_id_[ip_copy->ip_gate]++; > ! } > ! else{ > ! ip_copy->ip_id = ip_id++; > ! ip_copy->ip_gate = ip_id>>8; > ! } > #endif > ip_copy->ip_len += len; > ip_copy->ip_src = vifp->v_lcl_addr; > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip_output.c netinet/ip_output.c > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip_output.c Thu Jul 19 06:37:26 2001 > --- netinet/ip_output.c Wed Dec 12 10:28:11 2001 > *************** > *** 52,57 **** > --- 52,58 ---- > #include > #include > #include > + #include > > #include > #include > *************** > *** 88,101 **** > #include > #endif > > ! #ifdef IPFIREWALL_FORWARD_DEBUG > ! #define print_ip(a) printf("%ld.%ld.%ld.%ld",(ntohl(a.s_addr)>>24)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr)>>16)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr)>>8)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr))&0xFF); > - #endif > > u_short ip_id; > > static struct mbuf *ip_insertoptions __P((struct mbuf *, struct mbuf *, int *)); > static struct ifnet *ip_multicast_if __P((struct in_addr *, int *)); > --- 89,105 ---- > #include > #endif > > ! #define print_ip(a) printf("%ld.%ld.%ld.%ld ",(ntohl(a.s_addr)>>24)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr)>>16)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr)>>8)&0xFF,\ > (ntohl(a.s_addr))&0xFF); > > u_short ip_id; > + u_char ip_id_[256]; > + u_char src_gate[65536]; > + u_char dst_gate[65536]; > + u_char galaxy_out; > + u_char galaxy_in; > > static struct mbuf *ip_insertoptions __P((struct mbuf *, struct mbuf *, int *)); > static struct ifnet *ip_multicast_if __P((struct in_addr *, int *)); > *************** > *** 127,132 **** > --- 131,137 ---- > int flags; > struct ip_moptions *imo; > { > + struct timeval random_time; > struct ip *ip, *mhip; > struct ifnet *ifp; > struct mbuf *m = m0; > *************** > *** 207,219 **** > /* > * Fill in IP header. > */ > if ((flags & (IP_FORWARDING|IP_RAWOUTPUT)) == 0) { > ip->ip_vhl = IP_MAKE_VHL(IPVERSION, hlen >> 2); > ip->ip_off &= IP_DF; > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > #else > ! ip->ip_id = htons(ip_id++); > #endif > ipstat.ips_localout++; > } else { > --- 212,252 ---- > /* > * Fill in IP header. > */ > + > + /* Set UnirVerse on QoS-agile Packets */ > + if(ip->ip_tos != 0){ > + /* Allow reflectors and forwarders to prevent setting */ > + if((flags & IP_UNIRVERSE_SET) == 0){ > + getmicrotime(&random_time); > + if(random_time.tv_usec&0x01){ > + ip->ip_gate = > + ((src_gate[(ntohl(ip->ip_src.s_addr)>>16)&0xFFFF])&0xF0) | > + (((dst_gate[(ntohl(ip->ip_dst.s_addr)>>16)&0xFFFF])>>4)&0x0F); > + } > + else{ > + ip->ip_gate = > + (((src_gate[(ntohl(ip->ip_src.s_addr)>>16)&0xFFFF])<<4)&0xF0) | > + ((dst_gate[(ntohl(ip->ip_dst.s_addr)>>16)&0xFFFF])&0x0F); > + } > + } > + } > + else{ > + ip->ip_gate = IPXX_UNIRVERSE_DEFAULT; > + } > + /* Set id based on UnirVerse */ > if ((flags & (IP_FORWARDING|IP_RAWOUTPUT)) == 0) { > ip->ip_vhl = IP_MAKE_VHL(IPVERSION, hlen >> 2); > ip->ip_off &= IP_DF; > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > #else > ! if(ip->ip_tos != 0){ > ! ip->ip_id = ip_id_[ip->ip_gate]++; > ! } > ! else{ > ! ip->ip_id = ip_id++; > ! ip->ip_gate = ip_id>>8; > ! } > #endif > ipstat.ips_localout++; > } else { > *************** > *** 431,436 **** > --- 464,470 ---- > } > > sendit: > + > #ifdef IPSEC > /* get SP for this packet */ > if (so == NULL) > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/ip_var.h netinet/ip_var.h > *** /unir/sys/netinet/ip_var.h Thu Jul 19 06:37:26 2001 > --- netinet/ip_var.h Tue Dec 11 14:00:41 2001 > *************** > *** 133,138 **** > --- 133,140 ---- > /* flags passed to ip_output as last parameter */ > #define IP_FORWARDING 0x1 /* most of ip header exists */ > #define IP_RAWOUTPUT 0x2 /* raw ip header exists */ > + #define IP_UNIRVERSE_SET 0x4 /* UnirVerse set in header */ > + > #define IP_ROUTETOIF SO_DONTROUTE /* bypass routing tables */ > #define IP_ALLOWBROADCAST SO_BROADCAST /* can send broadcast packets */ > > *************** > *** 142,150 **** > struct sockopt; > > extern struct ipstat ipstat; > ! #ifndef RANDOM_IP_ID > ! extern u_short ip_id; /* ip packet ctr, for ids */ > ! #endif > extern int ip_defttl; /* default IP ttl */ > extern int ipforwarding; /* ip forwarding */ > extern u_char ip_protox[]; > --- 144,157 ---- > struct sockopt; > > extern struct ipstat ipstat; > ! > ! extern u_short ip_id; /* ip packet ctr, for ids */ > ! extern u_char ip_id_[]; /* id counters for each StarGate */ > ! extern u_char src_gate[]; > ! extern u_char dst_gate[]; > ! extern u_char galaxy_in; > ! extern u_char galaxy_out; > ! > extern int ip_defttl; /* default IP ttl */ > extern int ipforwarding; /* ip forwarding */ > extern u_char ip_protox[]; > diff -c -r /unir/sys/netinet/raw_ip.c netinet/raw_ip.c > *** /unir/sys/netinet/raw_ip.c Sun Jul 29 19:32:40 2001 > --- netinet/raw_ip.c Tue Dec 11 14:01:10 2001 > *************** > *** 239,249 **** > m_freem(m); > return EINVAL; > } > - if (ip->ip_id == 0) > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > ip->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > #else > ! ip->ip_id = htons(ip_id++); > #endif > /* XXX prevent ip_output from overwriting header fields */ > flags |= IP_RAWOUTPUT; > --- 239,259 ---- > m_freem(m); > return EINVAL; > } > #ifdef RANDOM_IP_ID > + if (ip->ip_id == 0){ > ip->ip_id = ip_randomid(); > + } > #else > ! if (ip->ip_id == 0){ > ! if(ip->ip_tos != 0){ > ! ip->ip_id = ip_id_[ip->ip_gate]++; > ! ip->ip_gate = IPXX_UNIRVERSE_DEFAULT; > ! } > ! else{ > ! ip->ip_id = ip_id++; > ! ip->ip_gate = ip_id>>8; > ! } > ! } > #endif > /* XXX prevent ip_output from overwriting header fields */ > flags |= IP_RAWOUTPUT; > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: "Brian E Carpenter" ; "Andrew Smith" ; "Diff Serv" ; "Bert Wijnen" ; "Randy Bush" Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:27 AM Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > I have the following comments on this topic: > 1. When did IETF started asking attendees for their product plans? > 2. I remember that inter-operability tests and "bake-offs" was outside > the business of IETF and has been done that way as far as I remember. > 3. We have held the initial COPS-PR and initial PIB inter-operability test > already and people have been asking me when should we do a second > one. The logical answer is after the relevant drafts are RFCed. > This is outside the realm of IETF. > 4. Why the difference and need for short term, long term product plan info? > I don't think this should be public info. :) > -- Kwok -- > > > At 04:29 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > >Right... to be very clear > >- we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. > >- we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked > > me about that) > >- what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real > > plans in the short term to implement the PIB > > > >Bert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:49 PM > > > To: Andrew Smith > > > Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > > You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > > is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > > aren't there yet. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > > > only "proposed > > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > > > rules? It used to be > > > > that such implementation experience was only requested when > > > "draft standard" > > > > status was sought. > > > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > > > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > > > Area Directors > > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >diffserv mailing list > >diffserv@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > >Archive: > >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 15:34:40 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17540 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:34:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA10726 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09423; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:12:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09392 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk [131.227.76.5]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17120 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:12:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.88.14] ident=eep1lw) by prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16EFjX-0001Ho-00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:12:03 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:12:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Lloyd Wood X-X-Sender: eep1lw@phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk Reply-To: Lloyd Wood To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" cc: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Randy Bush Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG In-Reply-To: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBBA9@nl0006exch002u.nl.lucent.com> Message-ID: Organization: speaking for none X-url: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/ X-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *16EFjX-0001Ho-00*DJhHhz2ZId6* (SECM, UniS) Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > Right... to be very clear > - we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. > - we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked > me about that) > - what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real > plans in the short term to implement the PIB Why? since the IESG's decision process is transparent, you may as well tell us up front... L. > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > > > Area Directors as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > Brian PGP _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 16:45:18 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18988 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA14173 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:45:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13366; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13340 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18647 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17230; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:34:48 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA29800 from ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:34:45 +0100 Message-Id: <3C17CD70.681AC4D0@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:34:40 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kwok-Ho Chan Cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912102814.029b3850@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > Brian: > I think you have the duty to keep the info provided as reply to your > question private when asked. Of course > > As condition to replying to your question, I need you indicate the > info will only be used just as one of the counts, and no indication > of what company is implementing what. Requests for anonymity will of course be honoured. Bits sent to the mailing list are hard to get back. ... > > FYI: 3G Wireless will also use the DiffServ PIB. Well, their specs are not 100% frozen yet but right now they do indeed include the PIB. Brian > > -- Kwok -- > > At 05:03 PM 12/10/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >Diffservers, > > > >As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be > >forwarded > >to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > > >Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area > >Directors: > > > >Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) > >please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send > >me a private response. > > > >Thanks > > Brian Carpenter > > diffserv co-chair > > > >_______________________________________________ > >diffserv mailing list > >diffserv@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > >Archive: > >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brian E Carpenter Distinguished Engineer, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM On assignment at the IBM Zurich Laboratory, Switzerland Board Chairman, Internet Society http://www.isoc.org _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 16:45:23 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18989 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA14167 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:45:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13139; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13109 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18602 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:32:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA08312; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:31:41 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA56088 from ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:31:37 +0100 Message-Id: <3C17CCB4.1EFDE165@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:31:32 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kwok-Ho Chan Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" , Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Randy Bush Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010912100651.02a54e00@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > I have the following comments on this topic: > 1. When did IETF started asking attendees for their product plans? I remember such discussions on various lists over many years. > 2. I remember that inter-operability tests and "bake-offs" was outside > the business of IETF and has been done that way as far as I remember. True, except for the requirements of the Draft Standard process. > 3. We have held the initial COPS-PR and initial PIB inter-operability test > already and people have been asking me when should we do a second > one. The logical answer is after the relevant drafts are RFCed. > This is outside the realm of IETF. Are the results public? > 4. Why the difference and need for short term, long term product plan info? > I don't think this should be public info. :) It doesn't have to be public; that's why I indicated that replies could be private. And I fully understand that some people will be unable to answer. I can't answer such a question without clearance. Brian > -- Kwok -- > > At 04:29 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > >Right... to be very clear > >- we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. > >- we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked > > me about that) > >- what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real > > plans in the short term to implement the PIB > > > >Bert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:49 PM > > > To: Andrew Smith > > > Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > > You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > > is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > > aren't there yet. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > > > only "proposed > > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > > > rules? It used to be > > > > that such implementation experience was only requested when > > > "draft standard" > > > > status was sought. > > > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > > > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > > > Area Directors > > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >diffserv mailing list > >diffserv@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > >Archive: > >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Brian E Carpenter Distinguished Engineer, Internet Standards & Technology, IBM On assignment at the IBM Zurich Laboratory, Switzerland Board Chairman, Internet Society http://www.isoc.org _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 16:59:43 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19450 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA15928 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14512; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:48:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14476 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19120 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:48:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA17284; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:47:41 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA30166 from ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:47:38 +0100 Message-Id: <3C17D077.4AE840AB@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:47:35 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Diff Serv Cc: Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush References: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Diffserv] Updated summary Re: diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary so far: Plan to use the PIB: 1 May use and implement the PIB: 1 Implemented/now implementing the draft PIB: 3 Also, the PIB is currently a normative reference in 3GPP. More replies welcome; anonymity guaranteed if requested. Brian Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > Diffservers, > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be forwarded > to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area Directors: > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) > please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send > me a private response. > > Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 17:02:15 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19561 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:02:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id RAA16756 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:02:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14322; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14289 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA19072 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA14034; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:46:32 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA36504 from ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:46:29 +0100 Message-Id: <3C17D032.EAF81D7E@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:46:26 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Diff Serv Cc: Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush References: <3C14DCBD.EFBE5EDA@hursley.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Diffserv] Summary Re: diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Summary so far: Plan to use the PIB: 1 May use and implement the PIB: 1 Implemented/now implementing the draft PIB: 2 Also, the PIB is currently a normative reference in 3GPP. More replies welcome; anonymity guaranteed if requested. Brian Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > Diffservers, > > As you know the Diffserv PIB recently passed WG last call, and will be forwarded > to the IESG as soon as the draft is updated. > > Now I have a question, at the request of the Ops and Management Area Directors: > > Can anyone who plans to implement the diffserv PIB (or has already done so) > please let us know? If you don't want to answer on the list, please send > me a private response. > > Thanks > Brian Carpenter > diffserv co-chair _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 12 22:56:27 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA28292 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:56:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA00515 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29870; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:35:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA29845 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:35:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [192.11.222.161]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA28070 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:35:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-85-76-62.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by ihemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id fBD3ZNf03176 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:35:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:35:22 +0100 Message-ID: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBCAC@nl0006exch002u.nl.lucent.com> From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" To: Lloyd Wood , "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Randy Bush Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 04:35:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Inline > -----Original Message----- > From: Lloyd Wood [mailto:l.wood@eim.surrey.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:12 PM > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) > Cc: Brian E Carpenter; Andrew Smith; Diff Serv; Randy Bush > Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote: > > > Right... to be very clear > > - we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and > > interoperability report. > > - we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs > > (some people asked me about that) > > - what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who > > have real plans in the short term to implement the PIB > > Why? > Seems clear, no? We hear from operators that they do NOT want binary interfaces for confuring the network devices. We are embaring here on a path to start standardizing PIBs. Seems like a good point to me to think and check a bit before moving ahead. If the show of hands is zero or one, then why stds track? If the show of hands is 20... then at least we see that the community is interested. We still have operators telling us that they do not want binary ifaces... > since the IESG's decision process is transparent, you may as well tell > us up front... > Sure... And I have seen this in WGs in the past... Bert > L. > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > > > > Area Directors as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > > > Brian > > PGP > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 01:35:45 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA02973 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA15276 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:35:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA14301; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00276 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:49:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from roam.psg.com (root@254-205-131-12.bellhead.com [12.131.205.254]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA28229 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from randy by roam.psg.com with local (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16EMs8-0005zL-00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:49:24 -0700 From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" Cc: Lloyd Wood , Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith , Diff Serv Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBCAC@nl0006exch002u.nl.lucent.com> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:49:24 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We hear from operators that they do NOT want binary interfaces > for confuring the network devices. i think what they are saying is that they want a solid consistent text interface. they don't care if binary config is there too. randy _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 05:26:47 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19335 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA22104 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:26:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA21568; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:10:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA21535 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:10:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com [47.129.242.157]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19215 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:10:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcars04f.ca.nortel.com (zcars04f.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.57]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDA9QF03766 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcard00m.ca.nortel.com by zcars04f.ca.nortel.com; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:10:05 -0500 Received: from zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com ([132.245.205.52]) by zcard00m.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id Y2JTJFGK; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:08:44 -0500 Received: from tweedy.NortelNetworks.com (artpt5kf.us.nortel.com [47.140.52.1]) by zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id XRGW5B0Y; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:08:43 -0500 Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.0.20010913030111.02536470@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> X-Sender: khchan@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:07:17 -0600 To: Brian E Carpenter From: "Kwok-Ho Chan" Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Cc: Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush In-Reply-To: <3C176E73.AABAE314@hursley.ibm.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Orig: Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org DiffServ PIB just completed WG last call and sought only "proposed standard" now. When I asked this question in tonight's IESG Planary, Scott Bradner, Transport Area (DiffServ's Area) Director have confirmed many implementations and proven interoperability is not required at this point. -- Kwok -- At 03:49 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard >is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We >aren't there yet. > > Brian > >Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > Brian, > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's only "proposed > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the rules? It used to be > > that such implementation experience was only requested when "draft > standard" > > status was sought. > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > To: Lloyd Wood > > Cc: Diff Serv > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > Lloyd, > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > Brian > > > >_______________________________________________ >diffserv mailing list >diffserv@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv >Archive: >http://www2.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 09:31:32 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21309 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA29220 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:31:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27731; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:08:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA17301 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 02:53:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16735 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 02:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from user-vcaul11.dsl.mindspring.com ([216.175.84.33] helo=ANDREWHOME) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16EQgE-00011e-00; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:53:22 -0800 Reply-To: From: "Andrew Smith" To: "Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)" Cc: "Diff Serv" , "Randy Bush" Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:18:26 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2413FED0DFE6D111B3F90008C7FA61FB0E1CBBA9@nl0006exch002u.nl.lucent.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bert, Right, that is a "what" answer, not a "why" answer. I'm not sure *why* this implementation report is of interest to the ADs: it's never been a criterion in the past for this level of standardisation. By all means move Proposed Standards to "historical" status in a few years if you find them not to be widely used but your job here is not to judge markets, it's to judge the technical merit of the protocols, and of their documentation, that the WGs produce. Based on your reasoning, IETF should be just endorsing the proprietary management "protocols" that are the most successful in the market. Andrew Smith -----Original Message----- From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 7:30 AM To: Brian E Carpenter; Andrew Smith Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Right... to be very clear - we were/are NOT asking for an implementation and interoperability report. - we are also NOT asking if people are shipping producs (some people asked me about that) - what we are asking is for a "show of hands" of people who have real plans in the short term to implement the PIB Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:49 PM > To: Andrew Smith > Cc: Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > aren't there yet. > > Brian > > Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > Brian, > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > only "proposed > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > rules? It used to be > > that such implementation experience was only requested when > "draft standard" > > status was sought. > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > To: Lloyd Wood > > Cc: Diff Serv > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > Lloyd, > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two > Area Directors > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 09:35:35 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21381 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA29356 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28057; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28026 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21097 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:15:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10268; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:15:12 +0100 Received: from gsine04.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA40480 from ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:15:05 +0100 Message-Id: <3C18B7E5.7443D0E1@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:15:01 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Kwok-Ho Chan Cc: Andrew Smith , Diff Serv , Bert Wijnen , Randy Bush Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010913030111.02536470@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the notes from Bert and Randy have explained why they asked me to ask the question. BTW, Kwok, your mail agent seems to think it is still September 13. Brian Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > DiffServ PIB just completed WG last call and sought only > "proposed standard" now. > When I asked this question in tonight's IESG Planary, > Scott Bradner, Transport Area (DiffServ's Area) Director have confirmed > many implementations and proven interoperability is not required at this point. > -- Kwok -- > > At 03:49 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > >is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > >aren't there yet. > > > > Brian > > > >Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's only "proposed > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the rules? It used to be > > > that such implementation experience was only requested when "draft > > standard" > > > status was sought. > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > Brian _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 10:07:55 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21934 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:07:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA01195 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:07:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29916; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29887 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21570 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-243.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.243]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.9.3/spamfix) with SMTP id IAA02107; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:47:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002f01c183e6$eabdab60$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , "Kwok-Ho Chan" Cc: "Andrew Smith" , "Diff Serv" , "Bert Wijnen" , "Randy Bush" References: <5.0.0.25.0.20010913030111.02536470@zbl6c002.corpeast.baynetworks.com> <3C18B7E5.7443D0E1@hursley.ibm.com> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:00:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.google.com/search?q=foreign+espionage+act THE ECONOMIC ESPIONAGE ACT OF 1996: THE THEFT OF TRADE ... ... be cited as the "Economic Espionage Act of 1996.". ... 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The Economic Espionage Act: Turning Fear into Compliance ... cyber.lp.findlaw.com/criminal/econ_esp.html - 28k - Cached - Similar pages ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian E Carpenter" To: "Kwok-Ho Chan" Cc: "Andrew Smith" ; "Diff Serv" ; "Bert Wijnen" ; "Randy Bush" Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > I think the notes from Bert and Randy have explained why they > asked me to ask the question. > > BTW, Kwok, your mail agent seems to think it is still September 13. > > Brian > > Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > > > DiffServ PIB just completed WG last call and sought only > > "proposed standard" now. > > When I asked this question in tonight's IESG Planary, > > Scott Bradner, Transport Area (DiffServ's Area) Director have confirmed > > many implementations and proven interoperability is not required at this point. > > -- Kwok -- > > > > At 03:49 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > >You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > >is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > >aren't there yet. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > >Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's only "proposed > > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the rules? It used to be > > > > that such implementation experience was only requested when "draft > > > standard" > > > > status was sought. > > > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors > > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 11:54:33 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23896 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:54:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id LAA05205 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:54:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04446; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04415 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from seralph10.essex.ac.uk (seralph10.essex.ac.uk [155.245.240.160]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23334 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ipsol3.essex.ac.uk ([155.245.211.20] helo=ipsol3) by seralph10.essex.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #1) id 16EYnu-0002qJ-00 for diffserv@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:33:50 +0000 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:33:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Alejandra Flores Mosri X-Sender: afloreb@ipsol3 Reply-To: Alejandra Flores Mosri To: diffserv@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Diffserv] Flow paths. Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Hi, I'm doing a research project that involves DiffServ. I have a question, if you think it is out of the subject of discussion of this list, I would greatly appreciate if somebody could provide me with a reference. Assume that a definition for a PHB group is given. Also assume that RSVP is used to set up the reservation, hence a fixed path for the transmission will be set up. Now the question is: must all the packets belong to the same micro flow within the PHB group in order to use this path? Or can different micro flows share the same reservation? Thanks a lot! Alex __________________________________________________________ Alejandra Flores Mosri PhD Research Student Audio and Video Networking Group Department of Electronic Systems Engineering University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, CO4 3SQ, Colchester, Essex, United Kingdom ph. +44 1206 872442 fax. +44 1206 872900 http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~afloreb _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 12:25:47 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24618 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:25:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA07631 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06986; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:11:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06953 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24261 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA09028; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:10:50 +0100 Received: from gsine03.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA32030 from ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:10:47 +0100 Message-Id: <3C18E113.F6908B2E@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:10:43 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Alejandra Flores Mosri Cc: diffserv@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Flow paths. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex, RSVP is nothing to do with diffserv, except in the particular mixed configurations of RFC 2998 and draft-ietf-issll-ds-map-01.txt Those are work items of the ISSLL working group. In the general case there is no "reservation" in diffserv; it is simply required that the network is adequately provisioned in advance. Brian Alejandra Flores Mosri wrote: > > Hi, I'm doing a research project that involves DiffServ. I have a > question, if you think it is out of the subject of discussion of this > list, I would greatly appreciate if somebody could provide me with a > reference. > > Assume that a definition for a PHB group is given. Also assume that RSVP > is used to set up the reservation, hence a fixed path for the transmission > will be set up. Now the question is: must all the packets belong to the > same micro flow within the PHB group in order to use this path? Or can > different micro flows share the same reservation? > > Thanks a lot! > > Alex > > __________________________________________________________ > Alejandra Flores Mosri > PhD Research Student > Audio and Video Networking Group > Department of Electronic Systems Engineering > University of Essex, > Wivenhoe Park, CO4 3SQ, Colchester, Essex, United Kingdom > ph. +44 1206 872442 > fax. +44 1206 872900 > http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~afloreb _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 13:28:56 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26080 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:28:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA10686 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:28:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10123; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:15:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10095 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:15:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from postal.ellacoya.com ([64.223.136.42]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25819 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:15:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.ellacoya.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:14:45 -0500 Message-ID: <85D31AAF3DFCD4119C44000102C00970010E005D@mail.ellacoya.com> From: "Weiss, Walter" To: "'Brian E Carpenter'" Cc: Diff Serv Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:14:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org This request goes to the very core of the IETF standardization process and the unwritten contract between ADs and the individual contributors that develop the standards. Irrespective of the what or why, I am not aware of a precedent for this request or as a justification for not moving a draft to proposed standard. In my view, this dramatically increases the level of control that ADs have over the standards process and undermines the desirability for individuals to invest in Chartered work items. There are already four checks for standards progression: 1. Is there sufficient interest the work to justify a chartered work item. 2. Is there consistent progress in the work item to justify keeping it on the charter. 3. Is it technically sufficient to progress to proposed standard. 4. Are there a sufficient number of interoperable implementations to justify progression to Draft Standard. There are already sufficient checks and balances in the process. Let's not add more and particularly not this arbitrary and politically charged one. regards, -Walter > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:15 AM > To: Kwok-Ho Chan > Cc: Andrew Smith; Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > I think the notes from Bert and Randy have explained why they > asked me to ask the question. > > BTW, Kwok, your mail agent seems to think it is still September 13. > > Brian > > Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > > > DiffServ PIB just completed WG last call and sought only > > "proposed standard" now. > > When I asked this question in tonight's IESG Planary, > > Scott Bradner, Transport Area (DiffServ's Area) Director > have confirmed > > many implementations and proven interoperability is not > required at this point. > > -- Kwok -- > > > > At 03:49 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > >You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > >is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > >aren't there yet. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > >Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > only "proposed > > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > rules? It used to be > > > > that such implementation experience was only requested > when "draft > > > standard" > > > > status was sought. > > > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area Directors > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > Brian _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.ht ml _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 13:48:23 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26691 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA12296 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:48:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11382; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:33:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA11353 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:33:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26205 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:33:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA17764; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:33:07 +0100 Received: from gsine03.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA32086 from ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:33:05 +0100 Message-Id: <3C18F45E.C4AE79DF@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:33:02 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Weiss, Walter" Cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <85D31AAF3DFCD4119C44000102C00970010E005D@mail.ellacoya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter, Personally I think you are reading too much into this - but if you have a process issue to raise, I think it should be raised directly with the IESG, since there is nothing the WG can decide about it. As soon as Kwok submits the updated PIB draft I intend to forward it to the IESG for Proposed Standard processing. Brian P.S. for the record, I was asked to make this enquiry some time ago, but waited until after the WG Last Call had ended and the OPS-NM BOF had taken place before doing so. "Weiss, Walter" wrote: > > This request goes to the very core of the IETF standardization process and > the unwritten contract between ADs and the individual contributors that > develop the standards. Irrespective of the what or why, I am not aware of a > precedent for this request or as a justification for not moving a draft to > proposed standard. In my view, this dramatically increases the level of > control that ADs have over the standards process and undermines the > desirability for individuals to invest in Chartered work items. > > There are already four checks for standards progression: > 1. Is there sufficient interest the work to justify a chartered work item. > 2. Is there consistent progress in the work item to justify keeping it on > the charter. > 3. Is it technically sufficient to progress to proposed standard. > 4. Are there a sufficient number of interoperable implementations to justify > progression to Draft Standard. > > There are already sufficient checks and balances in the process. Let's not > add more and particularly not this arbitrary and politically charged one. > > regards, > > -Walter > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian@hursley.ibm.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:15 AM > > To: Kwok-Ho Chan > > Cc: Andrew Smith; Diff Serv; Bert Wijnen; Randy Bush > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > I think the notes from Bert and Randy have explained why they > > asked me to ask the question. > > > > BTW, Kwok, your mail agent seems to think it is still September 13. > > > > Brian > > > > Kwok-Ho Chan wrote: > > > > > > DiffServ PIB just completed WG last call and sought only > > > "proposed standard" now. > > > When I asked this question in tonight's IESG Planary, > > > Scott Bradner, Transport Area (DiffServ's Area) Director > > have confirmed > > > many implementations and proven interoperability is not > > required at this point. > > > -- Kwok -- > > > > > > At 03:49 PM 12/12/01 +0100, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > > >You'll have to ask the Ops & Mgt ADs that. As far as Draft Standard > > > >is concerned, the actual requirement is proven interoperability. We > > > >aren't there yet. > > > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > > >Andrew Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > > > Seems odd that this formal request would come when it's > > only "proposed > > > > > standard" that is being sought - have They changed the > > rules? It used to be > > > > > that such implementation experience was only requested > > when "draft > > > > standard" > > > > > status was sought. > > > > > > > > > > Andrew Smith > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: diffserv-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:diffserv-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf > > > > Of Brian E Carpenter > > > > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:55 AM > > > > To: Lloyd Wood > > > > Cc: Diff Serv > > > > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > > > > > Lloyd, > > > > > > > > No, it belongs here because it is a formal request from two Area > Directors > > > > as part of the IESG's decision process. > > > > > > > > Brian _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 14:39:35 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28000 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA15310 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:39:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13926; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:14:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA13902 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mumm.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (root@mumm.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de [134.169.34.33]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27269 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:14:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from haerke.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (IDENT:root@haerke.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de [134.169.34.84]) by mumm.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA29557; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:14:29 +0100 (MET) Received: (from schoenw@localhost) by haerke.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fBDJET003225; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:14:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:14:29 +0100 Message-Id: <200112131914.fBDJET003225@haerke.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> X-Authentication-Warning: haerke.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de: schoenw set sender to schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de using -f From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: wweiss@ellacoya.com CC: diffserv@ietf.org In-reply-to: <85D31AAF3DFCD4119C44000102C00970010E005D@mail.ellacoya.com> (wweiss@ellacoya.com) Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG References: <85D31AAF3DFCD4119C44000102C00970010E005D@mail.ellacoya.com> Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org >>>>> Weiss, Walter writes: Walter> There are already four checks for standards progression: 1. Is Walter> there sufficient interest the work to justify a chartered work Walter> item. Was Bert not just trying to check the answer to this question? I have seen similar questions in other WGs and usually people just provide a suitable answer and move on. /js _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 15:14:20 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28484 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:14:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA16810 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15701; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA15672 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:57:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from postal.ellacoya.com ([64.223.136.42]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28249 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail.ellacoya.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:56:44 -0500 Message-ID: <85D31AAF3DFCD4119C44000102C00970010E0062@mail.ellacoya.com> From: "Weiss, Walter" To: "'Juergen Schoenwaelder'" Cc: diffserv@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:56:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Perhaps, as Brian said, I am reading too much into the request. However, the PIB has already past both the first check (WG charter) and the second (sufficient and consist progress), so if the question was in the context of either, it is irrelevant. regards, -Walter > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:schoenw@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:14 PM > To: wweiss@ellacoya.com > Cc: diffserv@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG > > > > >>>>> Weiss, Walter writes: > > Walter> There are already four checks for standards progression: 1. Is > Walter> there sufficient interest the work to justify a chartered work > Walter> item. > > Was Bert not just trying to check the answer to this question? > > I have seen similar questions in other WGs and usually people just > provide a suitable answer and move on. > > /js > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 13 16:58:14 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00147 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA21918 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20976; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:42:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20941 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:42:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (fmfdns02.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29837 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:42:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from fmsmsxvs043.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxv043-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.48.128]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.48 2001/12/13 16:27:50 root Exp $) with SMTP id VAA05105 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:42:42 GMT Received: from orsmsx26.jf.intel.com ([192.168.65.26]) by fmsmsxvs043.fm.intel.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.16) with SMTP id M2001121313415208707 ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:41:53 -0800 Received: by orsmsx26.jf.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:42:40 -0800 Message-ID: <10C8636AE359D4119118009027AE99870DA5DC77@FMSMSX34> From: "Durham, David" To: "'Wijnen, Bert (Bert)'" , Lloyd Wood Cc: Brian E Carpenter , Andrew Smith, Diff Serv , Randy Bush Subject: RE: [Diffserv] diffserv PIB: a question to the WG Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:42:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com] > If the show of hands is zero or one, then why stds track? > [Dave] Okay, good, more than one has now been demonstrated. > If the show of hands is 20... then at least we see that the > community is interested. [Dave] Are there 20 router vendors left in the World today? ;-) > We still have operators telling us that > they do not want binary ifaces... [Dave] COPS is for standardized automated network control systems, people can't type that fast:) Think: get network access request, grant request, allow traffic, provide correct DiffServ QoS for traffic associated with request. THis is the tightly integrated, distributed network control system operations for which COPS was designed. BTW, binary interfaces are unavoidable at some level (there is a program running somewhere) in the stack. > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@ns.ietf.org Fri Dec 14 01:07:11 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA09443 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA11778 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:07:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA08181; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:51:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA08150 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:51:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from samar.sasken.com (samar.sasken.com [164.164.56.2]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09114 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:50:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from samar (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by samar.sasken.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id fBE5okV29910 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:20:46 +0530 (IST) Received: from localhost (chandras@localhost) by sunsv2.sasken.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09215 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:20:34 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:20:34 +0530 (IST) From: Chandrashekhar S To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Diffserv] RSVP aggregation.. Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org I want to use rsvp aggregation inside diffsserv cloud. -On What basis classification of aggreagation be done. -How should i divide the aggregated flows back to individual flows at the deaggregator. -How to initiate aggregate path message at the aggregator. i mean is it the same same path message which comes from other cloud(ex: intserv) will become the aggregate path message after changing ip protocol no to 134 (RSVP_E2E_IGNORE).(RFC 3175) -Plz guide me the steps how to carry out reservation for aggregated flows using rsvp inside the diffserv cloud. I want some clarity.. --Best Regards, --Chandra -------------------------------------- S Chandrashekhar Software Engineer SASKEN COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES AMARJYOTHI LAYOUT Bangalore : ph:5355501 extn:8058 _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@ns.ietf.org Fri Dec 14 10:30:45 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01064 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA02732 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01776; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01745 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00720 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA09082; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:10:40 +0100 Received: from gsine08.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA51324 from ; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:10:38 +0100 Message-Id: <3C1A1667.FBBF68FE@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:10:31 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Chandrashekhar S Cc: diffserv@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diffserv] RSVP aggregation.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This topic belongs in the ISSLL working group which has published the relevant documents. Please see http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/issll-charter.html which has links to the documents Brian Chandrashekhar S wrote: > > I want to use rsvp aggregation inside diffsserv cloud. > > -On What basis classification of aggreagation be done. > -How should i divide the aggregated flows back to individual flows at the > deaggregator. > -How to initiate aggregate path message at the aggregator. i mean is it > the same same path message which comes from other cloud(ex: intserv) will > become the aggregate path message after changing ip protocol no to > 134 (RSVP_E2E_IGNORE).(RFC 3175) > > -Plz guide me the steps how to carry out reservation for aggregated flows > using rsvp inside the diffserv cloud. I want some clarity.. > > --Best Regards, > --Chandra > -------------------------------------- > S Chandrashekhar > Software Engineer > SASKEN COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES > AMARJYOTHI LAYOUT > Bangalore : ph:5355501 extn:8058 _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 19:09:16 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01043 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:09:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA12851 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11579; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA11547 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:33:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ISP-GO.FPT.VN (isp-go.fpt.vn [203.162.7.153]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29531 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:33:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from isp-mail.FPT.VN ([203.162.7.147]) by ISP-GO.FPT.VN with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:33:08 +0700 Received: from smtp.fpt.vn (isp-mta.fpt.vn [203.162.7.151]) by isp-mail.FPT.VN with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id YPLNY37Z; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:33:07 +0700 Received: from [203.162.61.57] by smtp.fpt.vn [203.162.7.151] Message-ID: <000501c1881e$037e74a0$393da2cb@nxlong24> Reply-To: "Nguyen Xuan Long" From: "Nguyen Xuan Long" To: "IETF DiffServ Group" Cc: "DTVTBK" Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:22:25 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2001 23:33:08.0152 (UTC) FILETIME=[59494380:01C1881C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I am comparing IntServ and DiffServ; so that I would show that DiffServ is realizable than IntServ. I have showed some differences as follow: (1) mechanisms: IntServ (Admission Control, Packet Scheduler, Classifier, Reservation protocol) & DiffServ (PHB, Traffic Conditioners). (2) IntServ (fine-grained, per-flow) & DiffServ (coarse-grained, per-aggregate) (3) scalability: IntServ < DiffServ Is there any thing else? What about the services that IntServ and DiffServ provide to end-users? It seems to be quite ambiguous. I would like to know further more the differences between IntServ and DiffServ Would you like show me those differences? Thank you so much! Best Regard, Nguyen Xuan Long _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 18 19:48:57 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA02284 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:48:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id TAA14178 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:48:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13620; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13587 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from zeus.anet-chi.com (root@zeus.anet-chi.com [207.7.4.6]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01845 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:32:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from IPv16 (as1b-67.chi.il.dial.anet.com [198.92.157.67]) by zeus.anet-chi.com (8.12.1/8.12.0) with SMTP id fBJ0Wo0O015916; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:32:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <05a701c18826$aa1ac360$1000a8c0@Unir.com> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "Nguyen Xuan Long" , "IETF DiffServ Group" Cc: "DTVTBK" References: <000501c1881e$037e74a0$393da2cb@nxlong24> Subject: Re: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:46:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fundamental difference between the IntServ and DiffServ research projects is that IntServ is that the IntServ approach assumed that all sorts of software would reside outside of the O/S kernel, doing complex things that can be dreamed up in user-space programs. DiffServ on the other hand, is a much more kernel-centric approach, not relying as much (or at all) on external software. This might be similar to the differences one finds in people working on database management systems outside of the kernel and filesystems which are mostly in the kernel. Jim Fleming http://www.IPv8.info IPv16....One Better !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nguyen Xuan Long" To: "IETF DiffServ Group" Cc: "DTVTBK" Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ > Hi all, > > I am comparing IntServ and DiffServ; so that I would show that DiffServ is > realizable than IntServ. > > I have showed some differences as follow: > > (1) mechanisms: IntServ (Admission Control, Packet Scheduler, Classifier, > Reservation protocol) & DiffServ (PHB, Traffic Conditioners). > > (2) IntServ (fine-grained, per-flow) & DiffServ (coarse-grained, > per-aggregate) > > (3) scalability: IntServ < DiffServ > > Is there any thing else? > What about the services that IntServ and DiffServ provide to end-users? It > seems to be quite ambiguous. > > I would like to know further more the differences between IntServ and > DiffServ > Would you like show me those differences? > > Thank you so much! > > Best Regard, > Nguyen Xuan Long > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 03:43:35 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25860 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:43:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id DAA04586 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:43:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA03740; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:24:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA03711 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:24:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from eu1s006.globalknowledge.net ([213.181.145.234]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA25692 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:24:29 -0500 (EST) Received: FROM eu1s006.globalknowledge.net BY eu1s006.globalknowledge.net ; Wed Dec 19 09:24:01 2001 +0100 Received: by eu1s006.globalknowledge.net with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:24:01 +0100 Message-ID: <2166DDC8B8ACD2119AA90008C709650B017CBB69@fr1s001.globalknowledge.net> From: Kamel Sadani To: Nguyen Xuan Long , IETF DiffServ Group Cc: DTVTBK Subject: RE: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:21:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id DAA03712 Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Not only technical approach should be taken in account when comparing Diffserv/Intserv but also the impact on network design. kamel > -----Message d'origine----- > De: Nguyen Xuan Long [SMTP:nxlong24@yahoo.com] > Date: mardi 18 décembre 2001 16:22 > À: IETF DiffServ Group > Cc: DTVTBK > Objet: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ > > Hi all, > > I am comparing IntServ and DiffServ; so that I would show that DiffServ is > realizable than IntServ. > > I have showed some differences as follow: > > (1) mechanisms: IntServ (Admission Control, Packet Scheduler, Classifier, > Reservation protocol) & DiffServ (PHB, Traffic Conditioners). > > (2) IntServ (fine-grained, per-flow) & DiffServ (coarse-grained, > per-aggregate) > > (3) scalability: IntServ < DiffServ > > Is there any thing else? > What about the services that IntServ and DiffServ provide to end-users? It > seems to be quite ambiguous. > > I would like to know further more the differences between IntServ and > DiffServ > Would you like show me those differences? > > Thank you so much! > > Best Regard, > Nguyen Xuan Long > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist. > html _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 05:51:05 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA26693 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:51:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA08317 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:51:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA07340; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:22:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA07310 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:22:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA26467 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 05:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA12882; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:22:20 +0100 Received: from dhcp222-13.zurich.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA52932 from ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:22:19 +0100 Message-Id: <3C206A5C.18A11C48@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:22:20 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nguyen Xuan Long Cc: IETF DiffServ Group , DTVTBK Subject: Re: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ References: <000501c1881e$037e74a0$393da2cb@nxlong24> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, This type of discussion is not part of the working group's charter. Please use the diffserv-interest list. mailto:diffserv-interest@ietf.org To Subscribe: diffserv-interest-request@ietf.org In Body: subscribe your_email_address Thanks Brian Carpenter diffserv co-chair Nguyen Xuan Long wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am comparing IntServ and DiffServ; so that I would show that DiffServ is > realizable than IntServ. > > I have showed some differences as follow: > > (1) mechanisms: IntServ (Admission Control, Packet Scheduler, Classifier, > Reservation protocol) & DiffServ (PHB, Traffic Conditioners). > > (2) IntServ (fine-grained, per-flow) & DiffServ (coarse-grained, > per-aggregate) > > (3) scalability: IntServ < DiffServ > > Is there any thing else? > What about the services that IntServ and DiffServ provide to end-users? It > seems to be quite ambiguous. > > I would like to know further more the differences between IntServ and > DiffServ > Would you like show me those differences? > > Thank you so much! > > Best Regard, > Nguyen Xuan Long _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 19 13:10:50 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03055 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:10:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id NAA23408 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22064; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22036 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:40:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com [171.69.24.11]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02388 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:40:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from FRED-W2K5.cisco.com ([171.71.21.235]) by sj-msg-core-2.cisco.com (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id fBJHeGg09531; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:40:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20011219093829.0428b008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: fred@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:39:27 -0800 To: "Nguyen Xuan Long" From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Diffserv] different between IntServ & DiffServ Cc: "IETF DiffServ Group" , "DTVTBK" In-Reply-To: <000501c1881e$037e74a0$393da2cb@nxlong24> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org At 07:22 AM 12/18/2001, Nguyen Xuan Long wrote: >Is there any thing else? how about the fact that diffserv is a data plane architecture targeting any and all traffic, while int-serv is a control-plane architecture targeting exactly those few applications that require a control plane? _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 20 05:32:48 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05176 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:32:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA02547 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA01388; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA01357 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04797 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA11638 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:03:21 +0100 Received: from dhcp23-128.zurich.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA41666 from ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:03:19 +0100 Message-Id: <3C21B768.9C4B34D7@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:03:20 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Diff Serv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Diffserv] Subscribing to diffserv-interest Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've seen several failed attempts to subscribe to the diffserv-interest list in the last couple of days. Please do *not* post administrative requests to the mailing list! If you wish to subscribe, visit http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv-interest or send a 'help' message to the the request address, diffserv-interest-request@ietf.org , for instructions. Brian _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 20 09:49:07 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08040 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA11506 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10095; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10062 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:22:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk [131.227.76.5]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07564 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:22:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.88.14] ident=eep1lw) by prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16H44l-0001yT-00; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:21:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:21:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Lloyd Wood X-X-Sender: eep1lw@phaestos.ee.surrey.ac.uk Reply-To: Lloyd Wood To: Brian E Carpenter cc: Diff Serv Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Subscribing to diffserv-interest In-Reply-To: <3C21B768.9C4B34D7@hursley.ibm.com> Message-ID: Organization: speaking for none X-url: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/ X-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanner: exiscan *16H44l-0001yT-00*i2LOj9Khlrs* (SECM, UniS) Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I've seen several failed attempts to subscribe to the diffserv-interest list > in the last couple of days. an indication that you should *only* give subscribe information in your directing emails. from Message-Id: <3C206A5C.18A11C48@hursley.ibm.com> $ This type of discussion is not part of the working group's charter. $ Please use the diffserv-interest list. $ $ mailto:diffserv-interest@[XXXX].org ^^^ handy link like this is just asking for trouble. L. $ To Subscribe: diffserv-interest-request@ietf.org $ In Body: subscribe your_email_address $ $ Thanks $ Brian Carpenter $ diffserv co-chair > Please do *not* post administrative requests to the mailing list! > If you wish to subscribe, visit > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv-interest > or send a 'help' message to the the request address, > diffserv-interest-request@ietf.org , for instructions. > > Brian PGP _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Thu Dec 20 10:08:41 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08457 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:08:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA12849 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11623; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:50:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11594 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:50:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com [66.185.86.72]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08069 for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:50:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from bert ([24.156.170.195]) by fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.04.02 201-253-122-122-102-20011128) with SMTP id <20011220144942.UDCH345551.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@bert> for ; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:49:42 -0500 Message-ID: <00f201c18965$9b7dce20$0200a8c0@bert> From: "Bert Cameron" To: Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:50:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C1893B.B28DD580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Diffserv] (no subject) Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C1893B.B28DD580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable who diffserv ------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C1893B.B28DD580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
who diffserv
------=_NextPart_000_00EF_01C1893B.B28DD580-- _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Sun Dec 23 09:30:50 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA26437 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:30:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA24813 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:30:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23854; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:08:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA23824 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:08:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from usc.edu (root@usc.edu [128.125.253.136]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA26139 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from aludra.usc.edu (demir@aludra.usc.edu [128.125.253.184]) by usc.edu (8.9.3.1/8.9.3/usc) with ESMTP id GAA20679; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:08:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demir@localhost) by aludra.usc.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1/usc) with ESMTP id fBNE8kt14608; Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:08:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:08:46 -0800 (PST) From: demir To: cc: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Diffserv] End2end-interest of "end of end2end" Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Hi. My name is Alper K. Demir. I am a PhD student at the University of Southern California. I have been trying to get my PhD degree. My PhD research is on Quality of Service in general focused on Differentiated Services. I would like to dedicate below poetry to the group. + A Poem: PhILOSOPHY ate of a Doctor's DisseRtation and de.FENCE My parents came, yesterday. They stood-up like a picture. a BIG picture with tears. I wish I were a pigeon. A pigeon lay oneself out. So that I can perch On both eyes of the picture(s). Do not cry bunch willow. Do not cry. Do not surrender Under the mirror of reflection. Do not yield; Nor do yield Cause "dishonesty"- or "honesty"+ The unity is burning the days and The nights, @in(1)$$$out(0). IFF Days are burning: --> Within the w<->fires Prisoned vitality is burning != My alma mater does not exist? It has Gone with THE |conduct| WINd Laughs, Comes, Vigours: The history burns. (I wished I had been a pigeon) A pigeon "ends the ends.""... From far \ far away Only [Quality] You and I Alper K. Demir, a PhD student _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Mon Dec 24 21:34:37 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA27513 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id VAA20998 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:34:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA20075; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA20048 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:12:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from web21207.mail.yahoo.com (web21207.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.165]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id VAA26692 for ; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:12:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20011225021244.40951.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [61.187.56.10] by web21207.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 18:12:44 PST Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 18:12:44 -0800 (PST) From: jie zhang To: diffserv@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Diffserv] Can we design Robust TCP Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org hi all, I know in diffserv network,when congestion happens, TCP will suffer bandwidth lost than UDP.The reason is TCP minishs its congestion window. Can we design robust TCP:When congestion happens TCP minishs its congestion window to (rtt*bandwidth of reservation)? Thanks JieZhang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Tue Dec 25 01:16:07 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA01352 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id BAA05586 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA26476; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA26444 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from usc.edu (root@usc.edu [128.125.253.136]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00570 for ; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:01:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from aludra.usc.edu (demir@aludra.usc.edu [128.125.253.184]) by usc.edu (8.9.3.1/8.9.3/usc) with ESMTP id WAA19799; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demir@localhost) by aludra.usc.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1/usc) with ESMTP id fBP62C717417; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:02:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:02:12 -0800 (PST) From: demir To: jie zhang cc: Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Can we design Robust TCP In-Reply-To: <20011225021244.40951.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org You can. Alper K. Demir, PhD student The University of Southern California On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, jie zhang wrote: > hi all, > I know in diffserv network,when congestion > happens, > TCP will suffer bandwidth lost than UDP.The reason is > TCP minishs its congestion window. > Can we design robust TCP:When congestion happens > TCP minishs its congestion window to (rtt*bandwidth of > reservation)? > > Thanks > JieZhang > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > diffserv mailing list > diffserv@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv > Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html > _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html From daemon@optimus.ietf.org Wed Dec 26 10:02:37 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA18022 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA27396 for diffserv-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:02:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26551; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA26525 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:41:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (internet-gateway2-x.zurich.ibm.com [195.212.119.243]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17824 for ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from collon.zurich.ibm.com (collon.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.143]) by internet-gateway2.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA08286; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:41:23 +0100 Received: from gsine02.us.sine.ibm.com by collon.zurich.ibm.com (AIX 4.3/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA39662 from ; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:41:21 +0100 Message-Id: <3C29E18C.7DD76557@hursley.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:41:16 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,fr Mime-Version: 1.0 To: demir Cc: jie zhang , diffserv@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Diffserv] Can we design Robust TCP References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: diffserv-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: diffserv-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Diffserv Discussion List X-BeenThere: diffserv@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But neither this, nor Alper's poetry, have anything to do with the charter of this WG. Thanks Brian Carpenter diffserv c0-chair demir wrote: > > You can. > > Alper K. Demir, PhD student > The University of Southern California > > On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, jie zhang wrote: > > > hi all, > > I know in diffserv network,when congestion > > happens, > > TCP will suffer bandwidth lost than UDP.The reason is > > TCP minishs its congestion window. > > Can we design robust TCP:When congestion happens > > TCP minishs its congestion window to (rtt*bandwidth of > > reservation)? > > > > Thanks > > JieZhang _______________________________________________ diffserv mailing list diffserv@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/diffserv Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/diffserv/current/maillist.html