From nobody Thu Dec 9 14:31:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2710C3A11CB for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kUR2QFkYqByO for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 030E53A11C9 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE1C4A7703D for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AJ0CNxFHdp6u for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2AC104A76F5C for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Message-Id: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:28:43 -0500 To: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 14:31:00 -0800 Subject: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 22:28:49 -0000 Hello IETF Education, Mentoring, and Outreach members! As an FYI, I=E2=80=99ve submitted some minor wording updates to the Tao = source maintained by the editors on Github, mostly to update references = to EDU Team to emodir. You can see details here: = https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/21/commits/761203bede1fbd0c507eb5896a8fed= f3c16fd24b After looking over the Tao, I think there are some further = emodir-related updates that would be useful. For example, the Tao = mentions =E2=80=9Cmentors=E2=80=9D but I think the program is now named = =E2=80=9CIETF Guides=E2=80=9D. So, I encourage to take a look and = suggest any other changes you think would be helpful for newcomers. (Of course the primary venue for discussions related to the Tao is = tao-discuss@ietf.org.) Regards, -Greg From nobody Thu Dec 9 14:52:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C643A1178 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:52:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QofL1s4VtW9a for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0225F3A1242 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B881E548632; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:51:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id A389B4EA00F; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:51:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:51:50 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Greg Wood Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 22:52:02 -0000 Convert the emodir URL to a real reference, so its not a URL at some random point in the doc. If IETF Guides is the new term, please include something like (prevously called "mentors"), so old readers like myself immediately know its just language, but not semantic change. Same i guess applies to EDU->emodir (previosly called EDU). Cheers Toerless On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:28:43PM -0500, Greg Wood wrote: > Hello IETF Education, Mentoring, and Outreach members! > > As an FYI, I’ve submitted some minor wording updates to the Tao source maintained by the editors on Github, mostly to update references to EDU Team to emodir. You can see details here: > > https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/21/commits/761203bede1fbd0c507eb5896a8fedf3c16fd24b > > After looking over the Tao, I think there are some further emodir-related updates that would be useful. For example, the Tao mentions “mentors” but I think the program is now named “IETF Guides”. So, I encourage to take a look and suggest any other changes you think would be helpful for newcomers. > > (Of course the primary venue for discussions related to the Tao is tao-discuss@ietf.org.) > > Regards, > > -Greg > > > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir From nobody Thu Dec 9 15:49:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3EC3A14F2 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:49:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E_Uqw6gHBAda for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF3693A14F4 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935094A7F272; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G8IxFT7hMz1f; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 569FB4A7F271; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 15:48:55 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Greg Wood In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 18:48:54 -0500 Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:49:00 -0000 Hi Toerless, Thanks for the quick review and reply! > On 9, Dec2021, at 17:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Convert the emodir URL to a real reference, so its not a URL at some = random point in the doc.=20 I agree an embedded hyperlinks are preferred. That=E2=80=99s an issue in = other places in the Tao so I=E2=80=99m happy to raise it as an issue on = the tao-discuss list. >=20 > If IETF Guides is the new term, please include something like = (prevously called "mentors"), > so old readers like myself immediately know its just language, but not = semantic change. The IETF Guides name has been in use since (at least) 2018. Since the primary audience for the Tao is newcomers, I think it is less = confusing to refer to terms no longer in use.=20 However, I defer to Wes and others more directly involved in the program = about their preference. > Same i guess applies to EDU->emodir (previosly called EDU). Similarly, emodir was set up in 2017: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/Si9gobk81uISkL-v0A7fLE= -zlxU/ -Greg >=20 > Cheers > Toerless >=20 > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:28:43PM -0500, Greg Wood wrote: >> Hello IETF Education, Mentoring, and Outreach members! >>=20 >> As an FYI, I=E2=80=99ve submitted some minor wording updates to the = Tao source maintained by the editors on Github, mostly to update = references to EDU Team to emodir. You can see details here: >>=20 >> = https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/21/commits/761203bede1fbd0c507eb5896a8fed= f3c16fd24b >>=20 >> After looking over the Tao, I think there are some further = emodir-related updates that would be useful. For example, the Tao = mentions =E2=80=9Cmentors=E2=80=9D but I think the program is now named = =E2=80=9CIETF Guides=E2=80=9D. So, I encourage to take a look and = suggest any other changes you think would be helpful for newcomers. >>=20 >> (Of course the primary venue for discussions related to the Tao is = tao-discuss@ietf.org.) >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> -Greg >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Emo-dir mailing list >> Emo-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir >=20 From nobody Thu Dec 9 17:43:54 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456BD3A16FE for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H-fiECIC5-R0 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D71E03A16FD for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC2F4A7F260; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zAYHZ1eLRQ4j; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49AC2450B814; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 17:43:48 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Greg Wood In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 20:43:47 -0500 Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <58FACC49-9FEB-492F-A380-19583589E5E5@staff.ietf.org> References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao - Correction X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:43:53 -0000 [sorry for multiple emails but the previous version of this mail omitted = a word important to my intended meaning. -Greg] Hi Toerless, Thanks for the quick review and reply! > On 9, Dec2021, at 17:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > Convert the emodir URL to a real reference, so its not a URL at some = random point in the doc.=20 I agree an embedded hyperlinks are preferred. That=E2=80=99s an issue in = other places in the Tao so I=E2=80=99m happy to raise it on the = tao-discuss list. >=20 > If IETF Guides is the new term, please include something like = (prevously called "mentors"), > so old readers like myself immediately know its just language, but not = semantic change. The IETF Guides name has been in use since (at least) 2018. Since the primary audience for the Tao is newcomers, I think it is less = confusing *not* to refer to terms no longer in use.=20 However, I defer to Wes and others more directly involved in the program = about their preference. > Same i guess applies to EDU->emodir (previosly called EDU). Similarly, emodir was set up in 2017: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/Si9gobk81uISkL-v0A7fLE= -zlxU/ -Greg >=20 > Cheers > Toerless >=20 > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:28:43PM -0500, Greg Wood wrote: >> Hello IETF Education, Mentoring, and Outreach members! >>=20 >> As an FYI, I=E2=80=99ve submitted some minor wording updates to the = Tao source maintained by the editors on Github, mostly to update = references to EDU Team to emodir. You can see details here: >>=20 >> = https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/21/commits/761203bede1fbd0c507eb5896a8fed= f3c16fd24b >>=20 >> After looking over the Tao, I think there are some further = emodir-related updates that would be useful. For example, the Tao = mentions =E2=80=9Cmentors=E2=80=9D but I think the program is now named = =E2=80=9CIETF Guides=E2=80=9D. So, I encourage to take a look and = suggest any other changes you think would be helpful for newcomers. >>=20 >> (Of course the primary venue for discussions related to the Tao is = tao-discuss@ietf.org.) >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> -Greg >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Emo-dir mailing list >> Emo-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir >=20 _______________________________________________ Emo-dir mailing list Emo-dir@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir From nobody Thu Dec 9 22:23:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C4F3A0B5F for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 22:23:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBRuc6P7QoFv for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 22:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FAF03A0B59 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 22:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61B8E549A09; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:23:24 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 5E17D4EA017; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:23:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:23:24 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Greg Wood Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 06:23:35 -0000 I am sure old-timers will also like to review the TAO ever 5 years or so ;-) Cheers Toerless On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:48:54PM -0500, Greg Wood wrote: > Hi Toerless, > > Thanks for the quick review and reply! > > > On 9, Dec2021, at 17:51, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > > Convert the emodir URL to a real reference, so its not a URL at some random point in the doc. > > I agree an embedded hyperlinks are preferred. That’s an issue in other places in the Tao so I’m happy to raise it as an issue on the tao-discuss list. > > > > > If IETF Guides is the new term, please include something like (prevously called "mentors"), > > so old readers like myself immediately know its just language, but not semantic change. > > The IETF Guides name has been in use since (at least) 2018. > > Since the primary audience for the Tao is newcomers, I think it is less confusing to refer to terms no longer in use. > > However, I defer to Wes and others more directly involved in the program about their preference. > > > Same i guess applies to EDU->emodir (previosly called EDU). > > Similarly, emodir was set up in 2017: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/Si9gobk81uISkL-v0A7fLE-zlxU/ > > -Greg > > > > > Cheers > > Toerless > > > > On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 05:28:43PM -0500, Greg Wood wrote: > >> Hello IETF Education, Mentoring, and Outreach members! > >> > >> As an FYI, I’ve submitted some minor wording updates to the Tao source maintained by the editors on Github, mostly to update references to EDU Team to emodir. You can see details here: > >> > >> https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/21/commits/761203bede1fbd0c507eb5896a8fedf3c16fd24b > >> > >> After looking over the Tao, I think there are some further emodir-related updates that would be useful. For example, the Tao mentions “mentors” but I think the program is now named “IETF Guides”. So, I encourage to take a look and suggest any other changes you think would be helpful for newcomers. > >> > >> (Of course the primary venue for discussions related to the Tao is tao-discuss@ietf.org.) > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> -Greg > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Emo-dir mailing list > >> Emo-dir@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir > > -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Thu Dec 9 23:28:53 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C6BA3A08C8 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:28:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fBSE1aQJYHhE for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:28:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBB9F3A08B9 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2021 23:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089a436.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.164.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4J9Mvv6jtCzDCfy; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:28:43 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 08:28:43 +0100 Cc: Toerless Eckert , emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 660814123.403379-b2eca93909c884bd6555a5df625d6991 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <54C03374-2B73-4171-8CC1-008D240358CA@tzi.org> References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> To: Greg Wood X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:28:52 -0000 On 2021-12-10, at 00:48, Greg Wood wrote: >=20 > Since the primary audience for the Tao is newcomers, I think it is = less confusing to refer to terms no longer in use.=20 (I think you are missing a NOT=E2=80=A6) =E2=80=A6 until that term is used by old-timers that the newcomers = interact with. If you are asked =E2=80=9Chave you found a mentor=E2=80=9D, without = knowing that these are =E2=80=9CIETF guides=E2=80=9D in newspeak, you = won=E2=80=99t know where to look. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Dec 10 13:36:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1ABD3A088A for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:36:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=isi.edu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwDTiEwaRbOz for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11E513A0886 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id y5so19106241ual.7 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:35:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isi.edu; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZJTgGR3cGQtdOlNrQNbz86tJ6ZiXSQYel+S/k3/zsZk=; b=XnSQJkqeZj3ZQWPecoopzWUndyf6+jOm+6VprUW4gt5ZchaWsHqvN3HcgHcz5yRnCt AwcWs5MzMnqMcA7Bfr5SwfUU5samlkF6TpmVxGQPsXFoKZbxQaqln74JqegyWnuMTqeq Oh5iiubE+HlgbBOfqTFDLOUCb4rdnoi/8BFqvi2TJ+DTs/nun6pjaEgzLnLVw+KsNGDp xZXWtU2MaJo8e/AsZPqV69w7yxFjlyx+kzICzJS4184eYMixdMd8k+YmJOQ+8KiyKYcw tkFjgSct7T3+dcJ6Y0OcVreDRBbaPyfhNbiYTEK9PySAfGgm+YzGK5d+uoJjKRp8w6hm ouTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZJTgGR3cGQtdOlNrQNbz86tJ6ZiXSQYel+S/k3/zsZk=; b=nWShNZL+gXgxZ5PtptLYiRNOZUA62BxbwXEm2idRsqQZ5Pskd6MOb3+FMwdShglVSV Ez0ENBDq4S+5xeLbcTqyv4lgMaA9L/+LKB5SyjvTUAsuXwAjjflj9LL2SF+/AfmqTUIL zJ7M+AqNf8n6KNn80rJsaFD9SRlKukpDJ2wuN5um8ytHZLktCnouwvZjmxwE4bRVPUjy zAGhtsdZwWr04zHOerj2zu+jB85qlNL+CFq+1TeTzJmJ57Fp3wm9cIG4vF8tWvOtMzLI +PEYH43FgA1tMUGAjT12/JHsDKX2D++re+KqbyDPwqAaUpnKgSpJ6IXwoU8+QilpHUro i+ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532O/5L3t9ix45fOha4YRd4uEmEvgaBgPoGR2ldE+FXU+ESE2e0f kEkPvHhlndV1mBaxZs8Fg/7lwStuHS9Uvz/lxMG0x98Uwzw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwUtRXKaidduxc5JCj0WRKFp6w8VynV1amtGfR3yC30wL/b/XKjEAISvcXqYdd+4ORjr57YnE+KbnKCg5XIg2M= X-Received: by 2002:a67:d491:: with SMTP id g17mr19403595vsj.41.1639172156904; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:35:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2824C39A-E051-48E6-8DEB-9A669788E0FB@staff.ietf.org> <54C03374-2B73-4171-8CC1-008D240358CA@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <54C03374-2B73-4171-8CC1-008D240358CA@tzi.org> From: Wes Hardaker Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:35:21 -0800 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Greg Wood , emo-dir@ietf.org, Toerless Eckert Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000236e4505d2d18296" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Updates to the Tao X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 21:36:05 -0000 --000000000000236e4505d2d18296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > =E2=80=A6 until that term is used by old-timers that the newcomers intera= ct with. > If you are asked =E2=80=9Chave you found a mentor=E2=80=9D, without knowi= ng that these are > =E2=80=9CIETF guides=E2=80=9D in newspeak, you won=E2=80=99t know where t= o look. > The two terms are probably approaching the same time-length usage. The way around this, though, is to introduce the subject in the Tao with a description that says "Your guide will act as a general mentor into understanding the IETF ways" or something similar. --=20 Wes Hardaker USC/ISI --000000000000236e4505d2d18296 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=E2=80=A6 until that term is used by old-timers that the newcomers interact= with.
If you are asked =E2=80=9Chave you found a mentor=E2=80=9D, without knowing= that these are =E2=80=9CIETF guides=E2=80=9D in newspeak, you won=E2=80=99= t know where to look.

The two terms are= probably approaching the same time-length usage.

= The way around this, though, is to introduce the subject in the Tao with a = description that says "Your guide will act as a general mentor into un= derstanding the IETF ways" or something similar.
--
Wes Hardaker
U= SC/ISI
--000000000000236e4505d2d18296--