From nobody Tue Jan 11 06:50:40 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3F03A1379 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:50:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RtwwzYOq4w1I for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smarthost1.greenhost.nl (smarthost1.greenhost.nl [195.190.28.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB92D3A1376 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 06:50:32 -0800 (PST) References: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> To: emo-dir@ietf.org From: Niels ten Oever X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> Message-ID: <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 15:50:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-As-Hash: f1842a279235a42f6aa2a2a81130733515c5a4ec X-Virus-Scanned: by clamav at smarthost1.greenhost.nl X-Scan-Signature: 2ecd0b53b7de9511489f92806276a3d7 Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:50:39 -0000 Dear all, First of all, a happy and healthy 2022 to all of you. Greg Wood and I would like to propose January 19 as an informal day to join efforts to update the Tao. There are a few outstanding issues and general needs for improvement and we thought it might be best to work through this hackathon style. So feel free to join us on the 19th or send your suggestions, ideas, and comments before then on this list or as pull requests here: https://github.com/ietf/tao/blob/main/Tao.md On the 19th I will try to be present as much as possible in https://meet.jit.si/TaoHackathon for live conversation and joint editing. Then hopefully by the end of the day we will have a new version which we can submit for review at tao-discuss, and after that through the formal review process. Thanks in advance - happy editing!, Niels -- Niels ten Oever, PhD Postdoctoral Researcher - Media Studies Department - University of Amsterdam Affiliated Faculty - Digital Democracy Institute - Simon Fraser University Non-Resident Fellow 2022-2023 - Center for Democracy & Technology Associated Scholar - Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - Fundação Getúlio Vargas Research Fellow - Centre for Internet and Human Rights - European University Viadrina W: https://nielstenoever.net E: mail@nielstenoever.net T: @nielstenoever P/S/WA: +31629051853 PGP: 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3 Read my latest article on Internet infrastructure governance in Globalizations here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14747731.2021.1953221 From nobody Thu Jan 13 10:25:37 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD533A0403; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:25:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: IESG Secretary To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.42.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <164209833591.25846.1289484537651798190@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:25:35 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] Education, Mentoring and Outreach Directorate (emodir) DIR Virtual Meeting: 2022-01-27 X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:25:36 -0000 The Education, Mentoring and Outreach Directorate (emodir) Directorate will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2022-01-27 from 09:00 to 10:00 America/Los_Angeles (17:00 to 18:00 UTC). Agenda: • Welcome and administrative details • Newcomer’s Program update • Review plan for authoring I-Ds and RFCs tutorials and materials • Technical tutorials for the IETF reboot plan • emodir activities plan for 2022 brainstorming • AOB As a reminder, emodir strives to enhance the productivity of IETF work, expand the diversity and inclusiveness of the IETF, and enable the IETF to facilitate technical development and innovation in the Internet. Feel free to contact us at emodir-chairs@ietf.org for more information. Information about remote participation: https://ietf.zoom.us/j/3671772413?pwd=TCsyWnZaK3hRWFg3UmZkY2tXdlNMUT09 Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 Passcode: IETF One tap mobile +13126266799,,3671772413# US (Chicago) +16465588656,,3671772413# US (New York) Dial by your location +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC) +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) +1 720 707 2699 US (Denver) +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 Find your local number: https://ietf.zoom.us/u/kcGPVKZBq From nobody Thu Jan 13 10:53:13 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC5A3A09AD for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sjGJmLW_Nvxh for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FFEA3A09A8 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258BF411568A for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2FW8KFydk7Sv for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E74F5411567C for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:53:07 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:53:06 -0500 To: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] emodir virtual interim meeting on 27 January 2022 at 1700 UTC X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:53:12 -0000 Hello! There will be a virtual interim meeting of the Education Mentoring and = Outreach (emodir) directorate on 27 January 2022 at 1700 UTC. Zoom = details are provided at the end of this message. Please come and share = your ideas and experiences to help new and experienced participants be = more effective working in the IETF. The draft agenda is: =E2=80=A2 Welcome and administrative details =E2=80=A2 Newcomer=E2=80=99s Program update=20 =E2=80=A2 Review plan for authoring I-Ds and RFCs tutorials and = materials =E2=80=A2 Technical tutorials for the IETF reboot plan =E2=80=A2 emodir activities plan for 2022 brainstorming =E2=80=A2 AOB As a reminder, emodir strives to enhance the productivity of IETF work, = expand the diversity and inclusiveness of the IETF, and enable the IETF = to facilitate technical development and innovation in the Internet.=20 Feel free to contact us at emodir-chairs@ietf.org for more information. Sincerely, Karen O=E2=80=99Donoghue and Greg Wood emodir coordinators +++ Zoom Details Topic: IETF emodir meeting Time: Jan 27, 2022 05:00 PM GMT Join Zoom Meeting https://ietf.zoom.us/j/3671772413?pwd=3DTCsyWnZaK3hRWFg3UmZkY2tXdlNMUT09 Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 Passcode: IETF One tap mobile +13126266799,,3671772413# US (Chicago) +16465588656,,3671772413# US (New York) Dial by your location +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC) +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) +1 720 707 2699 US (Denver) +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 Find your local number: https://ietf.zoom.us/u/kcGPVKZBq= From nobody Fri Jan 14 10:26:03 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20063A2ED7 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:26:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.576, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:25:48 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Niels ten Oever , "emo-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon Thread-Index: AQHYBvqeeOSwn18q3EW5/IQQtxsIM6xi2lgA Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:25:48 +0000 Message-ID: <81C9E380-7868-494E-A3C8-A696CD9EC11C@akamai.com> References: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> In-Reply-To: <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.57.22011101 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.816 definitions=2022-01-14_06:2022-01-14, 2022-01-14 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=655 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2201140113 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: YR8MYPnwy1mnqJwm6BVQ_MxVsTJJLqYR X-Proofpoint-GUID: YR8MYPnwy1mnqJwm6BVQ_MxVsTJJLqYR X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.816,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.11.62.513 definitions=2022-01-14_06,2022-01-14_01,2021-12-02_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=660 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 priorityscore=1501 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2201140113 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:26:02 -0000 PiAgICBPbiB0aGUgMTl0aCBJIHdpbGwgdHJ5IHRvIGJlIHByZXNlbnQgYXMgbXVjaCBhcyBwb3Nz aWJsZSBpbiBodHRwczovL21lZXQuaml0LnNpL1Rhb0hhY2thdGhvbiAgZm9yIGxpdmUgY29udmVy c2F0aW9uIGFuZCBqb2ludCBlZGl0aW5nLiANCg0KQW55IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgc2V0IG9mIGhvdXJz Pw0KDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Jan 14 10:29:17 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D5473A2F62 for ; 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Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 595B44115694; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:29:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Greg Wood In-Reply-To: <81C9E380-7868-494E-A3C8-A696CD9EC11C@akamai.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:29:02 -0500 Cc: Niels ten Oever , "emo-dir@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AC464A7-55A4-498A-BA0B-C73B8B7982D9@staff.ietf.org> References: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> <81C9E380-7868-494E-A3C8-A696CD9EC11C@akamai.com> To: "Salz, Rich" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:29:16 -0000 > On 14, Jan2022, at 13:25, Salz, Rich = wrote: >=20 >> On the 19th I will try to be present as much as possible in = https://meet.jit.si/TaoHackathon for live conversation and joint = editing.=20 >=20 > Any particular set of hours? Hi Rich! We will try to be available as much as possible all day (generally CET = and ET US hours) so people can come by as they please.=20 However, if you have (or anyone has) a particular preference or plan, = please let us know and we will make sure at least one of us is online = then. Thanks, Greg >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir >=20 From nobody Fri Jan 14 10:30:07 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738293A2F02 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.675 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.576, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id afF0D04S9DDg for ; 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Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:29:25 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Niels ten Oever , "emo-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon Thread-Index: AQHYBvqeeOSwn18q3EW5/IQQtxsIM6xi21kA Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:29:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> In-Reply-To: <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.57.22011101 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.27.164.43] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <2759A62EF3843545BB18B83DA68A95E5@akamai.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.425, 18.0.816 definitions=2022-01-14_06:2022-01-14, 2022-01-14 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=624 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2201140113 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: mfRNvn7kYWG2LPBlmx9-OFe-T9eJcd05 X-Proofpoint-GUID: mfRNvn7kYWG2LPBlmx9-OFe-T9eJcd05 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.816,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.11.62.513 definitions=2022-01-14_06,2022-01-14_01,2021-12-02_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=622 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1015 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2201140113 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:30:05 -0000 V2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgcHVycG9zZSBvZiB0aGUgVGFvIHRoZXNlIGRheXM/DQoNCklzIGl0ICJpbnN0 ZWFkIG9mIiB0aGUgbmV3Y29tZXIncyB2aWRlb3M/ICBBIGhhcmRjb3B5IHJlZnJlc2hlcj8gIFdo ZXJlIGluIGEgbmV3IHVzZXJzIGluaXRpYWwgaW52b2x2ZW1lbnQgd2l0aCB0aGUgSUVURiwgd291 bGQgd2UgZXhwZWN0IHRoZW0gdG8gcmVhZCB0aGlzPw0KDQpPdmVyYWxsLCBJIHRoaW5rIGl0J3Mg d2F5IHRvbyBsb25nLiAgRXNwZWNpYWxseSBzaW5jZSBUYW8gc2F5aW5nIHNlZW0gbm90YWJsZSBm b3IgdGhlaXIgYnJldml0eSA6KQ0KDQo= From nobody Tue Jan 18 10:11:07 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D263A0B16 for ; 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Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B599C45841C1 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 13:10:58 -0500 References: <8e0c86a4-13c4-c55c-cc9a-db6aae26587d@nielstenoever.net> <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> To: emo-dir@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9eacb6e7-dfff-0298-a9ec-cfd0bc11df12@nielstenoever.net> Message-Id: <5A529A82-5B64-49BA-86F9-DEA88FE2C665@staff.ietf.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] Tao edit-a-thon on 19 Jan X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 18:11:05 -0000 Hi everyone, Just a reminder that tomorrow is the =E2=80=9CTao edit-a-thon=E2=80=9D! Generally during EU and ET US working times, Niels and I will be hanging = out at: https://meet.jit.si/TaoHackathon For me that will be at least 1700-2200 UTC. -Greg > On 11, Jan2022, at 09:50, Niels ten Oever = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > First of all, a happy and healthy 2022 to all of you.=20 >=20 > Greg Wood and I would like to propose January 19 as an informal day to = join efforts to update the Tao. There are a few outstanding issues and = general needs for improvement and we thought it might be best to work = through this hackathon style. >=20 > So feel free to join us on the 19th or send your suggestions, ideas, = and comments before then on this list or as pull requests here: = https://github.com/ietf/tao/blob/main/Tao.md >=20 > On the 19th I will try to be present as much as possible in = https://meet.jit.si/TaoHackathon for live conversation and joint = editing.=20 >=20 > Then hopefully by the end of the day we will have a new version which = we can submit for review at tao-discuss, and after that through the = formal review process. >=20 > Thanks in advance - happy editing!, >=20 > Niels=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Niels ten Oever, PhD > Postdoctoral Researcher - Media Studies Department - University of = Amsterdam > Affiliated Faculty - Digital Democracy Institute - Simon Fraser = University > Non-Resident Fellow 2022-2023 - Center for Democracy & Technology > Associated Scholar - Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - Funda=C3=A7=C3=A3= o Get=C3=BAlio Vargas > Research Fellow - Centre for Internet and Human Rights - European = University Viadrina >=20 > W: https://nielstenoever.net > E: mail@nielstenoever.net > T: @nielstenoever > P/S/WA: +31629051853 > PGP: 2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488 643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3 >=20 > Read my latest article on Internet infrastructure governance in = Globalizations here: = https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14747731.2021.1953221 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir From nobody Wed Jan 26 15:01:38 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308503A2654 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqcxNo904LNt for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B98E3A2650 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3B9D4096D35 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dFRivbaUkAdP for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [70.18.229.17]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 821E64096D30 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:01:32 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:01:29 -0500 References: To: emo-dir@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] Reminder: emodir virtual interim meeting on 27 January 2022 at 1700 UTC X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 23:01:37 -0000 Hi, A gentle reminder that the emodir meeting will happen at 1700 UTC on 27 = Jan. (which is tomorrow for me). Hope to see you there. -Greg > On 13, Jan2022, at 13:53, Greg Wood wrote: >=20 > Hello! >=20 > There will be a virtual interim meeting of the Education Mentoring and = Outreach (emodir) directorate on 27 January 2022 at 1700 UTC. Zoom = details are provided at the end of this message. Please come and share = your ideas and experiences to help new and experienced participants be = more effective working in the IETF. >=20 > The draft agenda is: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Welcome and administrative details > =E2=80=A2 Newcomer=E2=80=99s Program update=20 > =E2=80=A2 Review plan for authoring I-Ds and RFCs tutorials and = materials > =E2=80=A2 Technical tutorials for the IETF reboot plan > =E2=80=A2 emodir activities plan for 2022 brainstorming > =E2=80=A2 AOB >=20 > As a reminder, emodir strives to enhance the productivity of IETF = work, expand the diversity and inclusiveness of the IETF, and enable the = IETF to facilitate technical development and innovation in the Internet.=20= >=20 > Feel free to contact us at emodir-chairs@ietf.org for more = information. >=20 > Sincerely, >=20 > Karen O=E2=80=99Donoghue and Greg Wood > emodir coordinators >=20 > +++ >=20 > Zoom Details >=20 > Topic: IETF emodir meeting > Time: Jan 27, 2022 05:00 PM GMT >=20 > Join Zoom Meeting > https://ietf.zoom.us/j/3671772413?pwd=3DTCsyWnZaK3hRWFg3UmZkY2tXdlNMUT09= >=20 > Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 > Passcode: IETF > One tap mobile > +13126266799,,3671772413# US (Chicago) > +16465588656,,3671772413# US (New York) >=20 > Dial by your location > +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) > +1 646 558 8656 US (New York) > +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC) > +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) > +1 720 707 2699 US (Denver) > +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) > Meeting ID: 367 177 2413 > Find your local number: https://ietf.zoom.us/u/kcGPVKZBq From nobody Thu Jan 27 08:38:42 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D2A3A1520 for ; 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Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:38:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Wes Hardaker Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 08:37:35 -0800 Message-ID: To: Greg Wood Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a18e8805d692f105" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] Reminder: emodir virtual interim meeting on 27 January 2022 at 1700 UTC X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:38:40 -0000 --000000000000a18e8805d692f105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > A gentle reminder that the emodir meeting will happen at 1700 UTC on 27 > Jan. (which is tomorrow for me). > Appologies. That slot unfortunately overlaps with a mission critical operational meeting for me, so I can't make it. [that an I'm hugely overstressed trying to get a proposal done by tomorrow too] -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI --000000000000a18e8805d692f105 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


A gentle reminder that the emodir meeting will happen at 1700 UTC on 27 Jan= . (which is tomorrow for me).

Appologie= s.=C2=A0 That slot unfortunately overlaps with a mission critical operation= al meeting for me, so I can't make it.

[that a= n I'm hugely overstressed trying to get a proposal done by tomorrow too= ]

--
Wes Hardaker
USC/ISI
--000000000000a18e8805d692f105-- From nobody Thu Jan 27 10:11:40 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD2723A089B for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L7_5916mKPwk for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from c8a.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DA533A0899 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9A1425A346 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y5LIRFLtuX_N for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.4.33] (c-24-17-19-210.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [24.17.19.210]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E880C425A344 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: Alice Russo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:11:34 -0800 To: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 18:11:39 -0000 As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. Alice -- A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. - Share it and update it. B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically = kramdown-rfc2629) - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. - Share it and update it. Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. [1] = https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/dra= ft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ [4] = https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-t= odo-yourname-protocol.md [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references [6] = https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md= From nobody Fri Jan 28 02:38:32 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D023A0962 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 02:38:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3o1cHMzRqweT for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 02:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E565A3A094E for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 02:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from p200300dee73c6e005941ee6e3fc21f12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([2003:de:e73c:6e00:5941:ee6e:3fc2:1f12]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1nDOe3-0003MB-84; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 11:38:19 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 11:38:16 +0100 Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> To: Alice Russo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1643366305;2ba07550; X-HE-SMSGID: 1nDOe3-0003MB-84 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:38:29 -0000 Thanks. I think that=E2=80=99s exactly what is needed. And I also revise = my own statement from yesterday: I guess providing both xml and md makes = sense as this is easy enough. Now we only need to to layout it nicely = and put it in as many places as possible :-) > On 27. Jan 2022, at 19:11, Alice Russo wrote: >=20 > As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. >=20 > Alice > -- >=20 > A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > - Share it and update it. >=20 > B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically = kramdown-rfc2629) > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > - Share it and update it. >=20 > Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. >=20 > [1] = https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/dra= ft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml > [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml > [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ > [4] = https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-t= odo-yourname-protocol.md > [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references > [6] = https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir >=20 From nobody Mon Jan 31 00:45:41 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED483A285A for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 00:45:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=eggert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l7v5YYCA1bt4 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 00:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eggert.org (mail.eggert.org [91.190.195.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60EC43A2857 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 00:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a00:ac00:4000:400:49a9:3c31:e49e:a32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.eggert.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F53B1D9BF5; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:45:21 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eggert.org; s=dkim; t=1643618721; bh=uexCZvfpbZW0Dl940B/NQ3bM/RO7f0ec3oI15b8/EHw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=CznT84GftesSYd8FLxjJULDAHQQ6xsU/EORtusEJ5k185hiFbAdf5j//QzmZVeeJY kAU7apWSwSrsIZ2vy8WOHxg40FKu66lXNx3oTj95Ng9O0LjwHRvruoiq9tSY4EVKeH a6IYO4lXp8ziHCAgonc7N3DhJEExIwDjegTDAMgg= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1FD0A59E-3A1D-4099-849E-F7950704BA0A"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\)) From: Lars Eggert In-Reply-To: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:45:20 +0200 Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org Message-Id: <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> To: Alice Russo X-MailScanner-ID: 2F53B1D9BF5.A2964 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: lars@eggert.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:45:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1FD0A59E-3A1D-4099-849E-F7950704BA0A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, do we want to (strongly) recommend kramdown-rfc2629 esp. for new = documents? It has a significantly lower bar than editing directly in XML. Thanks, Lars > On 2022-1-27, at 20:11, Alice Russo wrote: >=20 > As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. >=20 > Alice > -- >=20 > A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > - Share it and update it. >=20 > B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically = kramdown-rfc2629) > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > - Share it and update it. >=20 > Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. >=20 > [1] = https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/dra= ft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml > [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml > [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ > [4] = https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-t= odo-yourname-protocol.md > [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references > [6] = https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir --Apple-Mail=_1FD0A59E-3A1D-4099-849E-F7950704BA0A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEmpq0ZpSoejRmyhheVLXDCb9wwVcFAmH3oaAACgkQVLXDCb9w wVfHzQ/+IreSNxvnB//v8ZNRXdCBjK4KzDB4nA1iPEE7WmP9PFti8gQsrPIL54tV PUcaC2MekqAgrjiU9keX3jNw4me7qG3rSj49jfz7YFhvrADQfgzyy00FpTF+B99f 9YidCW4tmVnqT1nyaQoADFh2Cn2h5pgsa8sl9BYMmkzfESWmv+KhPe2qWVCGooWx NWyIshFC8r61rxnq24lwFFIC0Ue7NiYL8e2KmhxImGOO9GHRGZbmexZEqgrWIuKj 5TsszydX12b+hDSO0CCAvnUYwHKXTdH+wsAXzHomAjSCF5xf4AMc9ShgllbGcBEX ONPAuuU6PFOlrS6Omwx09/4hoDO6owxkY+yomj8dy9yW7t1uK6pMNm+DSA8rxf9X pscDIiu8nbxZGpUzEurDOcxU6QZwtE+71zqZnP/8QQe06BFRuPshrthcmwpTpQEi G6Nihd6qBqwT87qjgKyxKE2TIYYtGbzPqUZAN66U9BNKCHJU+zNWELA+Ym9JvOJ4 /+dAaB4l/ERx+OvcFkMRLBJmrQvRTQySNvysalfxORN0a9II0yDdUpDYfF5L0bUz DAczeSNjjQSEKSgi0SuU+Owg39TpMms2bvhVELCOkvksrkjcRV43xCwYBxCrgXpG zAa24JLxVcUdC+97xQ/cG7K51Y9bGV35Uzd2Mc78cSFobe2TGCo= =rzFA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1FD0A59E-3A1D-4099-849E-F7950704BA0A-- From nobody Mon Jan 31 03:16:05 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005323A2CD9 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 03:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tVfvXK5WxG-Z for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 03:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4515A3A2CD5 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 03:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089ad4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.173.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JnQV33pfxzDCd8; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:15:55 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:15:55 +0100 Cc: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 665320555.084572-5a46538e3c7106b540b24b4e47fb04ad Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> To: Alice Russo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:16:04 -0000 On 2022-01-27, at 19:11, Alice Russo wrote: >=20 > Convert I have a slight problem with this word. Convert, to many, implies a one-time activity. =E2=80=9CLet=E2=80=99s convert this library to C++ so it is easier to = maintain=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 What we mean here is something that is done after each round of editing. Maybe we need a better term for formatting documents. =E2=80=9CFormatting=E2=80=9D may be more familiar to people who have = used LaTeX or similar at the university. =E2=80=9CRendering=E2=80=9D is another word, but maybe even more of an = in-group term. =E2=80=9CPrinting=E2=80=9D is something a Word user would do, =E2=80=9CPri= nt to PDF=E2=80=9D. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jan 31 07:24:00 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2D33A077C for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 07:23:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nx5MunVXUpGf for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 07:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 704C13A076E for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 07:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3343C58C4B0; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:23:49 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 2004B4EA503; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:23:49 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:23:49 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Lars Eggert Cc: Alice Russo , emo-dir@ietf.org Message-ID: References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:23:59 -0000 I would strongly recommend kramdown-rfc2629, but... I think we need some better documentation / tooling pieces first to avoid users to maybe become frustrated:. 1. Instead of Matin Thomsons template, i would suggest a template that has (ideally) an instance of every formatting option: - a table, - figure, - an instance of every paragraph formatting etc. pp. at least what the xml template has: https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/draft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml 2. If you want to start changing an existing I-D in MD and there is no github, but only datatracker, you need to retrieve an existing MD via the XML: Every XML on datatracker that was generated by kramdown-rfc2629 contains a compressed version of the MD source. I couldn't find a tool to extract the MD from the XML though. it is easy to write it yourself (base64 or the like, don't quite remember), but would strngly suggest to have a pointer to such a tool. 3. It might be helpful to have on authors.ietf.org a page also documenting MD formatting. The doc on cabos github is kinda hmm... all over the place, but not complete for the formatting pieces ? 4. aplicable to MD and XML: I would add to the templates also elements that are not mandatory, but very useful: - a terminology section (references to a defined term in such a section are somewhat of a pain. Have not tried to see how good that works in MD). - A changelog section (helps WG chairs and others a lot if these are done well). Cheers Toerless On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:45:20AM +0200, Lars Eggert wrote: > Hi, > > do we want to (strongly) recommend kramdown-rfc2629 esp. for new documents? > > It has a significantly lower bar than editing directly in XML. > > Thanks, > Lars > > > > On 2022-1-27, at 20:11, Alice Russo wrote: > > > > As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. > > > > Alice > > -- > > > > A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML > > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). > > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. > > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > > - Share it and update it. > > > > B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically kramdown-rfc2629) > > - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). > > - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > > -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. > > - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > > - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > > - Share it and update it. > > > > Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. > > > > [1] https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/draft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml > > [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml > > [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ > > [4] https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-todo-yourname-protocol.md > > [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references > > [6] https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md > > _______________________________________________ > > Emo-dir mailing list > > Emo-dir@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir > > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir -- --- tte@cs.fau.de From nobody Mon Jan 31 15:28:38 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668893A1CB3 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:28:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EptAvl1n2ek6 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C839E3A1CB0 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p5089ad4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.173.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JnklH3XDYzDCcM; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 00:28:27 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 00:28:26 +0100 Cc: Lars Eggert , emo-dir@ietf.org, Alice Russo Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <991BF843-26F3-4787-B483-FFBBA81E1EC2@tzi.org> References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> To: Toerless Eckert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 23:28:37 -0000 On 31. Jan 2022, at 16:23, Toerless Eckert wrote: >=20 > I couldn't find a tool > to extract the MD from the XML though. It=E2=80=99s called kramdown-rfc-extract-markdown=20 kramdown-rfc-extract-markdown myfile.xml >myfile.md Documented at: https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#upconversion Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Mon Jan 31 19:29:50 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C85C3A0EA5 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCJ52wwg4r5r for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AF1F3A0EA0 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 003754096D32; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lazcg_BeXmep; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47DE84096D30; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:29:44 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Jay Daley In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:29:41 +1300 Cc: Alice Russo , emo-dir@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <54C9EFC3-79B2-4578-B266-39C5ECBFFC31@ietf.org> References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 03:29:49 -0000 > On 1/02/2022, at 12:15 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On 2022-01-27, at 19:11, Alice Russo wrote: >>=20 >> Convert >=20 > I have a slight problem with this word. >=20 > Convert, to many, implies a one-time activity. > =E2=80=9CLet=E2=80=99s convert this library to C++ so it is easier to = maintain=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 >=20 > What we mean here is something that is done after each round of = editing. >=20 > Maybe we need a better term for formatting documents. > =E2=80=9CFormatting=E2=80=9D may be more familiar to people who have = used LaTeX or similar at the university. > =E2=80=9CRendering=E2=80=9D is another word, but maybe even more of an = in-group term. The standard term used by the tools team is "rendering". This predates = me so I don=E2=80=99t the know origins but authors.ietf.org uses this = term and "converting" where "rendering" would be hard to understand. I = agree that it has a one-time implication but some times we just need to = pick a word. Jay > =E2=80=9CPrinting=E2=80=9D is something a Word user would do, =E2=80=9CP= rint to PDF=E2=80=9D. >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir --=20 Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org From nobody Mon Jan 31 19:44:24 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: emo-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90FE53A1040 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2x3mePrR15vz for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfx.ietf.org (ietfx.amsl.com [4.31.198.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F21F23A103D for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B724096D32; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from ietfx.ietf.org ([4.31.198.45]) by localhost (ietfx.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lv-dI_uKcwH6; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [158.140.230.105]) by ietfx.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06F834096D30; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:44:16 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5AA632C0-330D-4DD2-81B5-7D8FDBA2751F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Jay Daley In-Reply-To: <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:44:13 +1300 Cc: Alice Russo , emo-dir@ietf.org Message-Id: <3EADD8F6-8AC9-444D-B69A-063A9C5E24FA@ietf.org> References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> To: Lars Eggert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 03:44:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5AA632C0-330D-4DD2-81B5-7D8FDBA2751F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 When I looked at quick start guides before the new year there were some = unanswered questions getting in the way. 1. As below, do we recommend Markdown over XML or let people choose? = The authors site currently lets people choose but that can change. 2. Do we recommend kramdown-rfc over mmark or let people choose? = kramdown-rfc is used much more than mmark so that would be fair but = it=E2=80=99s still odd that we should pick a winner. 3. Do we recommend going straight in with Martin Thompson=E2=80=99s = templates? The recommendation from Ekr on another list was "I would = think one with XML and one with Markdown and a separate one for how to = use MT's ID tools, which means Github." If we=E2=80=99re going to include all of those then that=E2=80=99s four = quickstarts and they still need to choose between them. Doable but not = as snappy as perhaps we might hope. Any thoughts? Jay > On 31/01/2022, at 9:45 PM, Lars Eggert wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Hi, >=20 > do we want to (strongly) recommend kramdown-rfc2629 esp. for new = documents? >=20 > It has a significantly lower bar than editing directly in XML. >=20 > Thanks, > Lars >=20 >=20 >> On 2022-1-27, at 20:11, Alice Russo wrote: >>=20 >> As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. >>=20 >> Alice >> -- >>=20 >> A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML >> - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). >> - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. >> -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. >> - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. >> - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. >> - Share it and update it. >>=20 >> B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically = kramdown-rfc2629) >> - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). >> - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. >> -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. >> - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. >> - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. >> - Share it and update it. >>=20 >> Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. >>=20 >> [1] = https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/dra= ft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml >> [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml >> [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ >> [4] = https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-t= odo-yourname-protocol.md >> [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references >> [6] = https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md >> _______________________________________________ >> Emo-dir mailing list >> Emo-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir >=20 >=20 -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@ietf.org --Apple-Mail=_5AA632C0-330D-4DD2-81B5-7D8FDBA2751F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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Tue, 1 Feb 2022 06:16:25 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 1BB1D4EA511; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 06:16:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 06:16:25 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Jay Daley Cc: Lars Eggert , emo-dir@ietf.org, Alice Russo Message-ID: References: <51F3DD06-DA88-4DBD-ABBA-1CD0972326A4@amsl.com> <2FBDEFE9-CE5B-4CD3-BE20-670056E836A4@eggert.org> <3EADD8F6-8AC9-444D-B69A-063A9C5E24FA@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3EADD8F6-8AC9-444D-B69A-063A9C5E24FA@ietf.org> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Emo-dir] quick-start guides X-BeenThere: emo-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Education, Mentoring & Outreach Directorate" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 05:16:37 -0000 On Tue, Feb 01, 2022 at 04:44:13PM +1300, Jay Daley wrote: > When I looked at quick start guides before the new year there were some unanswered questions getting in the way. > > 1. As below, do we recommend Markdown over XML or let people choose? The authors site currently lets people choose but that can change. Afaik, XML was never designed for direkt human writing. Mardown is. Arguably this means that we should have and recommend a markdown language for writing. As i said in my prior mail, if we recommend then this puts us in a bit of a bind to document/tool-support the markdown as much as the XML (IMHO). Aka: additional work for tools team (although i think it's not much work). > 2. Do we recommend kramdown-rfc over mmark or let people choose? kramdown-rfc is used much more than mmark so that would be fair but it’s still odd that we should pick a winner. I would just put "recommend" into context. It just means that the recommended choice is the one where tools team will spend resources on and where it seems more members of the community can provide peer-2-peer support. > 3. Do we recommend going straight in with Martin Thompson’s templates? The recommendation from Ekr on another list was "I would think one with XML and one with Markdown and a separate one for how to use MT's ID tools, which means Github." Repeating: I would like to see a template that has an instance of all important formatting options and all useful sections, and have it the same for XML as for markdown. The XML template is already quite good, the markdown one weak. No opinions about the importance of the github piece. > If we’re going to include all of those then that’s four quickstarts and they still need to choose between them. Doable but not as snappy as perhaps we might hope. I'd start with kramdown-rfc markdown and XML quickstarts. Toerless > Any thoughts? > > Jay > > > On 31/01/2022, at 9:45 PM, Lars Eggert wrote: > > > > Signed PGP part > > Hi, > > > > do we want to (strongly) recommend kramdown-rfc2629 esp. for new documents? > > > > It has a significantly lower bar than editing directly in XML. > > > > Thanks, > > Lars > > > > > >> On 2022-1-27, at 20:11, Alice Russo wrote: > >> > >> As discussed today. Outlines below as potential starting points. > >> > >> Alice > >> -- > >> > >> A) Quick-start guide for editing in XML > >> - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [1]). > >> - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > >> -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using xi:include [2]. > >> - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > >> - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > >> - Share it and update it. > >> > >> B) Quick-start guide for editing in markdown (specifically kramdown-rfc2629) > >> - Start with a file (an existing I-D or template [4]). > >> - Edit it w/ the software of your choice. > >> -> Tip: Rely on the citation library by using a YAML header [5]. > >> - Convert it using https://author-tools.ietf.org. > >> - Upload it to the I-D submission tool [3]. > >> - Share it and update it. > >> > >> Note: If you prefer a GitHub workflow, see instructions on [6]. > >> > >> [1] https://github.com/ietf-authors/rfcxml-templates-and-schemas/blob/main/draft-rfcxml-general-template-standard-00.xml > >> [2] https://authors.ietf.org/references-in-rfcxml > >> [3] https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/ > >> [4] https://github.com/martinthomson/internet-draft-template/blob/main/draft-todo-yourname-protocol.md > >> [5] https://github.com/cabo/kramdown-rfc2629#references > >> [6] https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/blob/main/doc/TEMPLATE.md > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Emo-dir mailing list > >> Emo-dir@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir > > > > > > -- > Jay Daley > IETF Executive Director > exec-director@ietf.org > > _______________________________________________ > Emo-dir mailing list > Emo-dir@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/emo-dir -- --- tte@cs.fau.de