From enum-admin@ietf.org Fri Jun 1 14:30:01 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA15651 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16624; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16594 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wanadoo.fr (APoncelet-101-2-1-235.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.42.235]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA15162 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:11:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Service Commercial" To: enum@ietf.org Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 19:54:25 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0EAD4.A915FA10" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [Enum] Decouvrez les services d'Objectif Algerie. Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0EAD4.A915FA10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by optimus.ietf.org id OAA16624 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Objectif Alg=E9rie Cr=E9=E9e en mars 2001, Objectif Alg=E9rie se des= tine =E0 =EAtre un des acteurs majeurs de l=92Internet Alg=E9rien. Evoluant =E0 la= foissur le march=E9 B-to-B et B-to-C, Objectif Alg=E9rie est avant tout un portail d= =E9di=E9 aux alg=E9riens pr=E9sents aux quatre coins de la plan=E8te et souhaitant= garder un =9Cil sur l=92actualit=E9 de leur pays. Ainsi ils pourront y trouver t= outes sortes d=92informations : la m=E9t=E9o, les actualit=E9s alg=E9riennes, l= a finance, les nouveaut=E9s informatiques , leur horoscope ou m=EAme y d=E9couvrir d= es dossiers sp=E9ciaux r=E9dig=E9s mensuellement en fonction des =E9v=E8neme= nts mondiaux. Outre ces services =AB standards =BB, le portail proposera un exhaustif m= oteur de recherche, un =AB chat-room =BB, des forums, ou encore un service d=92= annuaire d=E9di=E9 aux professionnels et particuliers. Outre ses activit=E9s grand public, Objectif Alg=E9= rie proposera un panel complet de services destin=E9s aux professionnels. Ach= at de noms de doma=EEnes, h=E9bergement et cr=E9ation de sites web ou gestions d'e-mailings constitueront notre offre de services BtoB. Pour vous faire d=E9couvrir ses services, Objecti= f Alg=E9rie vous propose de t=E9l=E9charger gratuitement un appel d'offres correspondant =E0 votre secteur d'activit=E9 : la vente de la deuxi=E8me = licence GSM en Alg=E9rie. > Je le t=E9l=E9charge !< A tr=E8s bient=F4t sur ObjectifAlgerie.com ! About us www.objectifalgerie.com ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0EAD4.A915FA10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Objectif Alg=E9rie
=
 
Cr=E9=E9e en = mars 2001, Objectif=20 Alg=E9rie se destine =E0 =EAtre un des acteurs = majeurs de=20 l’Internet Alg=E9rien. Evoluant =E0 la = foissur le march=E9=20 B-to-B et B-to-C, Objectif Alg=E9rie est avant = tout un=20 portail d=E9di=E9 aux alg=E9riens pr=E9sents aux = quatre coins de=20 la plan=E8te et souhaitant garder un œil = sur l’actualit=E9=20 de leur pays. Ainsi ils pourront y trouver = toutes sortes=20 d’informations : la m=E9t=E9o, les = actualit=E9s alg=E9riennes,=20 la finance, les nouveaut=E9s informatiques , = leur=20 horoscope ou m=EAme y d=E9couvrir des dossiers = sp=E9ciaux=20 r=E9dig=E9s mensuellement en fonction des = =E9v=E8nements=20 mondiaux. Outre ces services =AB standards =BB, = le portail=20 proposera un exhaustif moteur de recherche, un = =AB=20 chat-room =BB, des forums, ou encore un service = d’annuaire=20 d=E9di=E9 aux professionnels et = particuliers.
Outre ses = activit=E9s grand=20 public, Objectif Alg=E9rie proposera un panel = complet de=20 services destin=E9s aux professionnels. Achat de = noms de=20 doma=EEnes, h=E9bergement et cr=E9ation de sites = web ou=20 gestions d'e-mailings constitueront notre offre = de=20 services BtoB.

Pour vous faire d=E9couvrir ses services, = Objectif=20 Alg=E9rie vous propose de t=E9l=E9charger = gratuitement un=20 appel d'offres correspondant =E0 votre secteur = d'activit=E9=20 : la vente de la deuxi=E8me licence GSM en=20 Alg=E9rie.

 
>=20 Je le t=E9l=E9charge !<
 
A tr=E8s bient=F4t sur = ObjectifAlgerie.com=20 = !
About = us www.objectifalgerie.com
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0EAD4.A915FA10-- _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 6 00:15:40 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id AAA07099 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00652; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA00626 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nwcst284.netaddress.usa.net (nwcst284.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.29]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA06912 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15513 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2001 03:55:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20010606035516.15512.qmail@nwcst284.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.29 by nwcst284 for [129.107.63.172] via web-mailer(34FM.0700.17C.01) on Wed Jun 6 03:55:16 GMT 2001 Date: 5 Jun 2001 21:55:16 MDT From: rajesh bellur To: enum@ietf.org X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34FM.0700.17C.01) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id XAA00627 Subject: [Enum] post to the list Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks for subscribing, please post to the list. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 6 10:32:22 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA01998 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01716; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA01675 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wanadoo.fr (APoncelet-101-2-1-235.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.42.235]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA01331 for ; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:06:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Service Commercial" To: enum@ietf.org Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:44:45 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EE9F.9C6AF580" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Subject: [Enum] Discover Objectif Algerie services. Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EE9F.9C6AF580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by optimus.ietf.org id KAA01716 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Objectif Alg=E9rie Created in March 2001, Objectif Algerie intends t= o be one of the major actors of the Internet in Algeria. Evolving both on B= to B and B to C markets, Objectif Alg=E9rie is mainly a large gate dedicated= to Algerian people living all around the planet and wishing to keep an eye o= n the topicality of their country. Thus they will be able to find a wide range of information : weather, Algerian current events, finance, computing innovations, their horoscope and also discover "hot topics" throught mont= hly written reports according to world events. In addition to these " standar= ds " services, the portal will offer a search engine, a " chat room ", forum= s, or a service of directory dedicated to professionals and to private individuals. In addition to its general public activities, Objectif Alg=E9rie will propose a complete panel of services intended for= the professionals. Purchase of domain names, hosting and Web sites design or e-mailings management will constitute our B to B services offer. In the meanwhile, to make you discover its servic= es, Objectif Alg=E9rie proposes you to download a free tender corresponding t= o your branch of industry: the sale of the second GSM licence in Algeria. > I download !< Good surf on ObjectifAlgerie.com ! About us www.objectifalgerie.com ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EE9F.9C6AF580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Objectif Alg=E9rie
=
 
Created in March = 2001,=20 Objectif Algerie intends to be one of the major = actors=20 of the Internet in Algeria. Evolving both on B = to B and=20 B to C markets, Objectif Alg=E9rie is mainly a = large gate=20 dedicated to Algerian people living all around = the=20 planet and wishing to keep an eye on the = topicality of=20 their country.
Thus they will be able to = find a wide=20 range of information : weather, Algerian current = events,=20 finance, computing innovations, their horoscope = and also=20 discover "hot topics" throught monthly written = reports=20 according to world events. In addition to these = "=20 standards " services, the portal will offer a = search=20 engine, a " chat room ", forums, or a service of = directory dedicated to professionals and to = private=20 individuals.
In addition to = its general=20 public activities, Objectif Alg=E9rie will = propose a=20 complete panel of services intended for the=20 professionals. Purchase of domain names, hosting = and Web=20 sites design or e-mailings management will = constitute=20 our B to B services offer.

In the meanwhile, to make you discover its = services,=20 Objectif Alg=E9rie proposes you to download a = free tender=20 corresponding to your branch of industry: the = sale of=20 the second GSM licence in=20 Algeria.

 
>=20 I download !<
 
Good surf on ObjectifAlgerie.com = = !
About = us www.objectifalgerie.com
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0EE9F.9C6AF580-- _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 7 23:02:35 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id XAA20084 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28233; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28206 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from young (d139-kauai-lih0.midpac.net [204.149.167.139] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA19779 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:42:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2246520016582364150@young> X-EM-Version: 5, 0, 0, 19 X-EM-Registration: #01B0530810E603002D00 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mitchell" To: enum@ietf.org Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:36:04 -1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id WAA28207 Subject: [Enum] Your Order (MLM Plan) Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friend, here is your Multi-Level Marketing Plan: "Making over half million dollars every 4 to 5 months from your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense one time" THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! =============================================== BE A MILLIONAIRE LIKE OTHERS WITHIN A YEAR !! Before you say "Bull" , please read the following. This is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below , to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are "absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions, they are bound to make some mega bucks with only $25 out of pocket cost". DUE TO THE RECENT INCREASE OF POPULARITY & RESPECT THIS PROGRAM HAS ATTAINED, IT IS CURRENTLY WORKING BETTER THAN EVER. This is what one had to say: "Thanks to this profitable opportunity. I was approached many times before but each time I passed on it. I am so glad I finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received total $ 610,470.00 in 21 weeks, with money still coming in". Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is another testimonial: "This program has been around for a long time but I never believed in it. But one day when I received this again in the mail I decided to gamble my $25 on it. I followed thesimple instructions and walaa ..... 3 weeks later the money started to come in. First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the program,I have made over $710,000.00 and I am playing it again. The key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change anything ." More testimonials later but first, ****** PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE ******* $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If you would like to make at least $500,000 every 4 to 5 months easily and comfortably, please read the following...THEN READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN !!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTION BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED! INSTRUCTIONS: **** Order all 5 reports shown on the list below. **** For each report, send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail problems. **** When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports. You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5 = $25.00. **** Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the 5 reports from these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in case something happen to your computer. ****.IMPORTANT - DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than what is instructed below in steps 1 through6 or you will loose out on majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter, it will NOT work!!! People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened. So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will not work for you. Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! 1.. After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT # 5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 4 down TO REPORT # 5. 3.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT # 4. 4.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 2 down TO REPORT # 3. 5.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT # 2 6.... Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY ! ========================================================= Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD # 1 : BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY ============================================ let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume You and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailing receive only a0.2% response (the response could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2% . Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0.2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e-mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's = 100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # 4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5. THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500 + 3..... $5,000 + 4..... $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ......... Grand Total = $555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone, or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are over 250 million people on the internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! METHOD # 2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET =================================================== Advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free adson the internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 and add METHOD # 2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it . Always provide same day service on all orders. This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. _____________________ AVAILABLE REPORTS_____________________ ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY) for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper, Write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW : ============================================== REPORT #1, "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: G. Mitchell P.O. Box 25884 Honolulu, Hawaii 96825-0884 don't forget to provide a permanent e-mail address in clear writing (better typed) to receive the reports. We had problems in delivery e-mails before!!! ============================================== REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #2 FROM: JD P.O.Box 1114 Des Plaines, IL 60017 USA ============================================== REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet" ORDER REPORT #3 FROM: J Santi 833 Walter Ave Des Plaines, IL 60016 USA ============================================== REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of Multilevel Marketing and the Internet" ORDER REPORT #4 FROM: Elaine Rix 138 Dundas Street, West, #243 Toronto, Ontario Canada M5G 1C3 ============================================== REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE" ORDER REPORT #5 FROM: C. Shaw P.O. Box 468 Schomberg, Ontario Canada L0G IT0 ============================================== There are currently more than 250,000,000 people online worldwide! $$$$$$$$$ YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$ Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT # 2. If you did not, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you , and the cash will continue to roll in ! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER : Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! ____________________________________________________ FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2...........# 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! ************** MORE TESTIMONIALS **************** "My name is Mitchell. My wife , Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on her when the thing didn'twork. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received a total of $ 147,200.00 all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her ''hobby''." Mitchell Wolf, Chicago, Illinois ------------------------------------------------------------ "Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big." Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada ----------------------------------------------------------- "I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks". Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. ---------------------------------------------------- "It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $ 20,560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $ 362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to internet". Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand ------------------------------------------------------------ ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! ======================================================= If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. Under Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact information and a method of removal. This is one time e-mail transmission. No request for removal is necessary. ------------------------------------------------------------ This message is sent in compliance of the new email Bill HR 1910. Under Bill HR 1910 passed by the 106th US Congress on May 24, 1999, this message cannot be considered Spam as long as we include the way to be removed. Per Section HR 1910, Please type "REMOVE" in the subject line and reply to this email. All removal requests are handled personally an immediately once received. _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 21 20:29:01 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA21661 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:29:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20981; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA20933 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourwebsite.com (24.100.115.107.on.wave.home.com [24.100.115.107]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA20909 for ; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:10:51 -0400 (EDT) From: TimeForAChange@real.com Message-Id: <200106220010.UAA20909@ietf.org> Reply-To: kchmystery@yahoo.com To: enum@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:09:29 -0400 Subject: [Enum] Don't take my word for it Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Earn up to $500K in 120 Days Sending Email!! > ________________________________________________________________________________ Note Transmissions to you by the sender of 'this' email will be stopped promptly by sending an e-mail with "unsubscribe" in the subject line. Simply hit reply and send and we will remove you from our database. Please Note-This is a one time mailing.Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________ > >Excuse us for bothering you but we would like to share our >good luck with everybody. > >My wife received this e-mail and forwarded it to me to review. >We've both read completely through it and have been in contact >with some of the individuals listed below. > >We think it's an excellent opportunity that is well worth the small >investment of time and money, and believe that you will, too! > > >===== PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE ====== >If you would like to make at least $500,000 every 4 to 5 months easily and >comfortably, please read the following... > >THEN READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN!!! > > >FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL >DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED! > >INSTRUCTIONS: >Order all 5 reports shown on the list below > >For each report, send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT >YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose >name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN >ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail >problems. > >When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports. > > >You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer >and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5=$25.00. > >Within a few days you will receive, vie e-mail, each of the 5 re ports from >these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be >accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them >from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk in >case something happens to your computer. > > >IMPORTANT - DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next >to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than what is >instructed below in step '' 1 through 6 '' or you will loose out on a >majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, >you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, >this method has been tested, and if altered, it will NOT work !!! >People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking >they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, >and Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. If you do, >it will not work for you. >Remember, honesty reaps the reward!!! > > > > > >1.... After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and >REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT # 5. This person >has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune > > >2....Move the name & address in REPORT # 4 down toREPORT # 5. > > >3....Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT # 4. > > >4....Move the name & address in REPORT # 2 downTO REPORT # 3. > > >5.... Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT # 2 > > >6.... Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE >SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY! >****Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on >your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. > > >Save this on a disk as well, just in case you loose any data. To assist you >with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase >will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how >to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads >and much more. > > >There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: > > >METHOD # 1:BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY > >Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we >Will assume you and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's >also assume that the mailing receive only a 0.2% response (the response >could be much better but lets just say it is only 0.2%. Also many people >will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). >Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0.2% >response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded >by sending out 5,000 e-mail each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 >e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's=100 people responded and >ordered Report # 2. > > >Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 >e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. > > >Those 1000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million >e-mails sent out. The 0.2% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report # >4. > > >Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 >(50 million) e-mails. > > > >The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report # 5 > > THAT'S 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH=$500,000.00 (half million). >Your total income in this example is: 1..... $50 + 2..... $500 + 3..... >$5,000 + 4 .... $50,000 + 5..... $500,000 ........ Grand Total=$555,550.00 > > >NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT >THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU >CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ! > > > >REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE >ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. > >Dare to think for a moment what would happen if everyone or half or even >one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are >over 150 million people on the Internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, >many people will do just that, and more! > > > >METHOD # 2 : BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET >Advertising on the net is very very inexpensive and there are hundreds >of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free ads on the Internet will >easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # 1 >and add METHOD # 2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you >must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it. Always provide >same day service on all orders. > >This will guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and >address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they >receive the report. > > >========= AVAILABLE REPORTS ============= >ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: > >============================================== >Always send $5 cash (U.S. CURRENCY only) for each Report. > >Checks NOT accepted. >Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets >of paper. > > On one of those sheets of paper, Write > > a.The NUMBER & the NAME of the Report > > you are ordering, > > b. YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and > > c. your name and postal address. > > (In case of mail difficulties.) > > >PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW : > >REPORT # 1: "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Net" >Order Report #1 from: >Kerry G. >PO Box 210132 >San Francisco, CA 94121 >USA >_________________________________________________________ >REPORT # 2: "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk e-mail on the Net" >Order Report # 2 from: >P.Harry >P.O. Box 470015 >Brooklyn, NY 11247 > USA >__________________________________________________________ >REPORT # 3: "Secret to Multi-Level Marketing on the Net" >Order Report # 3 from: >Mary Morgan >12 Condotti Drive >Woodbridge, Ontario, L4H 2C8 >Canada >__________________________________________________________ >REPORT # 4: "How to Become a Millionaire Utilizing MLM & the Net" >Order Report # 4 from: >D. Harris >6717 Main Street >Stouffville, ON L4A 6B3 >Canada >__________________________________________________________ >REPORT #5: "How to Send Out One Million e-mails for Free" >Order Report # 5 from: >Christa H >6021 Yonge Street, Ste. 1021 >Toronto, ON M2M 3W2 >Canada > >_________________________________________________________ >You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report >people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE >INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E-MAILS AND START >THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. >_________________________________________________________ >$$$$$$$$$YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES $$$$$$$$$$$ > > >Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: > > >=== If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 >weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. > > >=== After you have received 10 orders, 2 to 3 weeks after that you >should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT # 2. If you did not, >continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. > > >=== Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU >CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the >cash will continue to roll in ! THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: >Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front >of a Different report. > > >There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business !!! > > >=============================================== > > >FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS >PROGRAM: > >You have just received information that can give you >financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST >A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT. You can make more money in the next >few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program >EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works >exceedingly well as it is now. > > >Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put >your name and address in Report #1 and moved others to #2 ..........# 5 >as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out >100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on every one of them. >Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers >you will reach. > > >So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and >opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW ! > > >============ TESTIMONIALS ================ > >This is what one had to say: ''Thanks to this profitable opportunity. I >was approached many times before but each time I passed on it. I am >so glad I finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the >minimal effort and money required. > >To my astonishment, I received total $610,470.00 in 21 weeks, >with money still coming in." >Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey > > >Here is another testimonial: > >"This program has been around for a long time but I never believed >in it. But one day when I received this again in the mail I decided to >gamble my $25 on it. I followed the simple instructions and walaa >..... 3 weeks later the money started to come in. > >First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made >a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the >program, I have made over $710,000.00 and I am playing it again. The >key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change >anything.'' > > >"My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an >accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. >When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving ''junk >mail''. I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the >population and percentages involved. I ''knew'' it wouldn't work. >Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and a few days later >she jumped in with both feet. > >I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old ''I told you so'' on >her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me! Within 3 weeks >she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received >total $ 147,200.00 ........... all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody >in her ''hobby''. > >Mitchell Wolf M.D., Chicago, Illinois > >================================================ > > >''Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my >mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that >the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I >wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back''. '' I was >surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with >orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about >this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a >better investment with a faster return and so big." >Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada > > >================================================ >''I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered >if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to >get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed agai n by someone >else.........11 months passed then it luckily came again...... I did not >delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the >money came within 22 weeks." >Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y. > > >================================================= > > >''It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with >little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and >within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made >$20,560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was >$362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanks to internet.". >Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand > > >================================================= >ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON >'YOUR' ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM ! >================================================= > > >About 50,000 new people get online every month! >_______________________________________________________ > > > > >FOR YOUR INFORMATION.... >If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, >learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the >Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) 1-(800)827-5722 for free >help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers >free help via telephone and free seminars about business tax requirements. > >Under Bill S1618 Title III passed by the 105th US Congress this letter >cannot be considered spam as long as the sender includes contact >information >and a method of removal. This is a one-time e-mail transmission. No request >for removal is necessary. > >If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the >Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade >Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. > > Transmissions to you by the sender of 'this' email will be stopped promptly by sending an e-mail with "unsubscribe" in the subject line. Simply hit reply and send and we will remove you from our database. Please Note-This is a one time mailing.Thank you. _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Mon Jun 25 19:18:37 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA29452 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:18:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29965; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA29936 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chi02.npac.com (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA29008 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 18:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chi02.chicago.npac.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:54:52 -0500 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F3BE@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: enum@ietf.org Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 17:55:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org This Internet Draft was announced earlier today (see below) and stated that comments should be directed to this (ENUM WG) list. Here are some comments about how this I-D talks about E.212 (and RFC 2916). FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are not intended "for dialling purposes" even though they happen to be strings of decimal digits. IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility services, providing unique international identification of mobile terminals and/or users. The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks a Scenario and examples that describe associated services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. A reference to the current version of E.212 is: ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile users, 11/98. It would be very interesting to understand the context for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. Regards, -Andy Andrew Gallant, NeuStar, Inc. 1120 Vermont Avenue NW, 4th Floor Washington, DC 20005 USA Tel: +1 202 533 2812 Fax: +1 202 533 2987 Email: andrew.gallant@neustar.com -----Original Message----- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:11 AM Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : E.212 number and DNS Author(s) : G. Dommety et al. Filename : draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Pages : 5 Date : 22-Jun-01 An E212 number or IMSI (International Mobile Station Identity) is used to uniquely identify a mobile station Internationally. This document discusses the use of the Domain Name System (DNS) for storage of information regarding E.212 numbers and how DNS can be used for identifying available services connected to one E.212 number. This draft is adaptation of RFC 2916 to E.212 numbers. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Tue Jun 26 14:27:38 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA02036 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20713; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA20683 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA01423 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA15398 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:08:04 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from ont14a-bdc.canada.css.mot.com (ont14a-bdc.canada.css.mot.com [199.1.20.72]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA21563 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 11:01:10 -0700 (MST)] Received: by ont14a-bdc.canada.css.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:07:58 -0400 Message-ID: <28F1A76E98BDD31189A1009027DE31CF016034BB@ont14a-bdc.canada.css.mot.com> From: Young Michael-Y10724 To: "'Gallant, Andy'" , enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:07:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0FE6A.CD8A5F40" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FE6A.CD8A5F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Andy, Please see my comments in line. BR, Michael Young --------------------------------------------------------------- System Design, GTSS Vancouver, Motorola Tel: +1 (604)241-6032 Cel: +1 (604)726-6609 Email: michael.young@motorola.com --------------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Gallant, Andy [mailto:Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com] > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 3:56 PM > To: enum@ietf.org > Subject: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > > This Internet Draft was announced earlier today > (see below) and stated that comments should be > directed to this (ENUM WG) list. > > Here are some comments about how this I-D > talks about E.212 (and RFC 2916). > > FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are > not intended "for dialling purposes" even though > they happen to be strings of decimal digits. [MYH] Agreed. It is also stated in the ID. > > IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility > services, providing unique international > identification of mobile terminals and/or users. [MYH] Agreed. > > The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not > used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks > a Scenario and examples that describe associated > services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. [MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. > > A reference to the current version of E.212 is: > ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international > identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile > users, 11/98. > > It would be very interesting to understand the context > for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be > useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts > about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work > efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. > > Regards, > > -Andy > > > Andrew Gallant, NeuStar, Inc. > 1120 Vermont Avenue NW, 4th Floor > Washington, DC 20005 USA > Tel: +1 202 533 2812 > Fax: +1 202 533 2987 > Email: andrew.gallant@neustar.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:11 AM > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : E.212 number and DNS > Author(s) : G. Dommety et al. > Filename : draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > Pages : 5 > Date : 22-Jun-01 > > An E212 number or IMSI (International Mobile Station Identity) is > used to uniquely identify a mobile station Internationally. This > document discusses the use of the Domain Name System (DNS) for > storage of information regarding E.212 numbers and how DNS can be > used for identifying available services connected to one E.212 > number. This draft is adaptation of RFC 2916 to E.212 numbers. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login > with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant > mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FE6A.CD8A5F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt

Andy,

Please see my comments in line.

BR,

Michael Young
---------------------------------------------------------------
System Design, GTSS Vancouver, Motorola
Tel: +1 (604)241-6032   Cel: +1 (604)726-6609
Email: michael.young@motorola.com
---------------------------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gallant, Andy [mailto:Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 3:56 PM
> To: enum@ietf.org
> Subject: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt
>
>
> This Internet Draft was announced earlier today
> (see below) and stated that comments should be
> directed to this (ENUM WG) list.
>
> Here are some comments about how this I-D
> talks about E.212 (and RFC 2916).
>
> FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers.  IMSIs are
> not intended "for dialling purposes" even though
> they happen to be strings of decimal digits.

[MYH] Agreed.  It is also stated in the ID.
>
> IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility
> services, providing unique international
> identification of mobile terminals and/or users.

[MYH] Agreed.
>
> The term "E.212 number" is incorrect.  E.212 is not
> used the same way that E.164 is.  The I-D also lacks
> a Scenario and examples that describe associated
> services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916.

[MYH]  E.212 number is widely used.  Please check MAP spec.
>
> A reference to the current version of E.212 is:
> ITU-T  Recommendation  E.212, The international
> identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile
> users, 11/98.
>
> It would be very interesting to understand the context
> for this Internet Draft.  In particular, it would be
> useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts
> about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work
> efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Andy
>
>
> Andrew Gallant, NeuStar, Inc.
> 1120 Vermont Avenue NW, 4th Floor
> Washington, DC  20005  USA
> Tel:    +1 202 533 2812
> Fax:    +1 202 533 2987
> Email:  andrew.gallant@neustar.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 7:11 AM
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
>       Title           : E.212 number and DNS
>       Author(s)       : G. Dommety et al.
>       Filename        : draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt
>       Pages           : 5
>       Date            : 22-Jun-01
>      
> An  E212 number or IMSI  (International  Mobile Station Identity) is
> used to uniquely identify a mobile station Internationally. This
> document discusses the use of the Domain Name System (DNS) for
> storage of information regarding E.212 numbers and  how DNS can be
> used for identifying available services connected to one E.212
> number. This draft is adaptation of RFC 2916 to E.212 numbers.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login
> with the username
> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
> type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>       "get draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt".
>
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
>
> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
> Send a message to:
>       mailserv@ietf.org.
> In the body type:
>       "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt".
>      
> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
>       MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this
>       feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
>       command.  To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or
>       a MIME-compliant mail reader.  Different MIME-compliant
> mail readers
>       exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with
>       "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split
>       up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on
>       how to manipulate these messages.
>              
>              
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
>
> _______________________________________________
> enum mailing list
> enum@ietf.org
> http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0FE6A.CD8A5F40-- _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 02:23:03 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id CAA20436 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA21467; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA21423 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com (mgw-x1.nokia.com [131.228.20.21]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id BAA01186 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 01:59:27 -0400 (EDT) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.1.0/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f5R5x8902246 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:59:08 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh24nok.ntc.nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:00:04 +0300 Received: by esebh24nok with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:00:04 +0300 Message-ID: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> To: Michael.Young@motorola.com, Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:00:04 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi Michael & Andy, > The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not > used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks > a Scenario and examples that describe associated > services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. [MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. [ ] I believe that some text about this would be very helpful. I do not think most IETF folks know MAP very well. Also, it could be stated in more clear terms how MAP over IP (SIGTRAN for example) would need this kind of functionality. Also, as SIP will be used in 3G networks, service identification via E.212 could also be useful. > A reference to the current version of E.212 is: > ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international > identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile > users, 11/98. > It would be very interesting to understand the context > for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be > useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts > about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work > efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. [ ] Agreed. John _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 05:08:36 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id FAA14613 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 05:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA27741; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 04:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA27706 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 04:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chi02.npac.com (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id EAA09064 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 04:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chi02.chicago.npac.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:50:38 -0500 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F460@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: john.loughney@nokia.com, Michael.Young@motorola.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:24:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi, John, and thanks for providing this information. -Andy Note to others: FYI, John and James Yu wrote an interesting I-D last year - J. Loughney & J. Yu, " Roaming Support with DNS," draft-loughney-enum-roaming-00.txt, July 14, 2000. -----Original Message----- From: john.loughney@nokia.com [mailto:john.loughney@nokia.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 2:00 AM To: Michael.Young@motorola.com; Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com; enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Hi Michael & Andy, > The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not > used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks > a Scenario and examples that describe associated > services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. [MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. [ ] I believe that some text about this would be very helpful. I do not think most IETF folks know MAP very well. Also, it could be stated in more clear terms how MAP over IP (SIGTRAN for example) would need this kind of functionality. Also, as SIP will be used in 3G networks, service identification via E.212 could also be useful. > A reference to the current version of E.212 is: > ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international > identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile > users, 11/98. > It would be very interesting to understand the context > for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be > useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts > about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work > efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. [ ] Agreed. John _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 07:09:31 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA00398 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA02331; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA02300 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com (mgw-x3.nokia.com [131.228.20.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id GAA18668 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:52:05 -0400 (EDT) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.1.0/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f5RAr5I10286 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:53:05 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh25nok.ntc.nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:52:38 +0300 Received: by esebh25nok with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:52:38 +0300 Message-ID: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1CD@eseis04nok> To: Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com, Michael.Young@motorola.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:52:35 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi Andy, > Note to others: FYI, John and James Yu wrote an interesting I-D > last year - J. Loughney & J. Yu, " Roaming Support with DNS," > draft-loughney-enum-roaming-00.txt, July 14, 2000. Thanks for the quote - I still have the draft on my computer - if there is interest, I could see about updating it. br, John _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 09:18:09 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA21792 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:18:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06895; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06864 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exchange.netmagic.com (exchange.chaos.com [206.5.17.8]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA08588 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [206.5.17.17] by exchange.netmagic.com (NTMail 5.06.0016/NT2627.00.5ef58ba0) with ESMTP id trsmaaaa for enum@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:58:54 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010627072644.025c6418@mail.netmagic.com> X-Sender: amr@mail.netmagic.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:58:30 -0400 To: john.loughney@nokia.com, enum@ietf.org From: "A.M.Rutkowski" Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt In-Reply-To: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi John et al., >[MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. >[ ] I believe that some text about this would be very helpful. I do >not think most IETF folks know MAP very well. Also, it could be stated in >more clear terms how MAP over IP (SIGTRAN for example) would need this kind >of functionality. Also, as SIP will be used in 3G networks, service >identification via E.212 could also be useful. There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; and it maps much more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application names (a fundamental flaw of e164). It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense currently in vogue. It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or other identifiers NAPTR and other resource records and even IP addresses using A RRs. E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users --tony _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 09:43:10 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA08584 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08054; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08018 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:26:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA26901 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jim (ip-20-152-170.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.20.152.170]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5RDQP343540; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:26:25 -0400 Message-ID: <016d01c0ff0c$e480a360$041eff87@jim> From: "Jim Fleming" To: , , "A.M.Rutkowski" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010627072644.025c6418@mail.netmagic.com> Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:27:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.NIC.biz http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12472.html "RFC-2001-06-25-000 - IPv16 SLD.TLD Immigration Scoring System (0:212 .BIZ)" http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12458.html "RFC-2001-06-24-000 - 2001 A Space Odyssey" Jim Fleming http://www.DOT-BIZ.com 0:212 - BIZ World ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.M.Rutkowski" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 7:58 AM Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > Hi John et al., > > >[MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. > >[ ] I believe that some text about this would be very helpful. I do > >not think most IETF folks know MAP very well. Also, it could be stated in > >more clear terms how MAP over IP (SIGTRAN for example) would need this kind > >of functionality. Also, as SIP will be used in 3G networks, service > >identification via E.212 could also be useful. > > There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin > Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative > to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have > the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; and it maps much > more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application > names (a fundamental flaw of e164). It also doesn't > invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense currently > in vogue. > > It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or > other identifiers NAPTR and other resource > records and even IP addresses using A RRs. E212 may > be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers > and users > > --tony > > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 10:37:58 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA01630 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10220; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA10189 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from joy.songbird.com (IDENT:root@songbird.com [208.184.79.7]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA25150 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bbthead.dcrocker.net (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by joy.songbird.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02184; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 07:16:24 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010627094612.021224e0@dcrocker.net> X-Sender: dhc@brandenburg.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:54:16 -0400 To: "A.M.Rutkowski" From: Dave Crocker Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Cc: john.loughney@nokia.com, enum@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010627072644.025c6418@mail.netmagic.com> References: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org At 08:58 AM 6/27/2001, A.M.Rutkowski wrote: There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin >Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative >to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have >the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; In other words, no established practise. That means a human factors learning curve of unknown length and difficulty. >and it maps much >more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application >names (a fundamental flaw of e164). Maps more cleanly... once there is a specific proposal for Internet use that is widely supported, adopted, deployed and used. And what is the usual timeframe for such an adoption processes, say to the 75th percentile of the candidate user base? Is the unit of measure years or decades? >It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense currently >in vogue. Indeed, structure is always nonsense... until one tries to operate a serious, large-scale system without it. We await your detailed proposal. >It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or >other identifiers NAPTR and other resource >records and even IP addresses using A RRs. Excellent! That means that we can continue with our current work and deployment. When your preferred approach reaches a serious level of utility, we can create the necessary mapping. Until then you are debating future, hypothetical superiority, against immediate, well-understood, practical utility. >E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users May be. Hmmm. That means it also may NOT be. In any event, pleast note that World Peace is the preferred mode for most people. The only problem is finding practical ways of achieving it. d/ ---------- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.273.6464 _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 11:40:34 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA09222 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:40:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12840; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12809 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA18560 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jim (nas-147-146.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.20.147.146]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5RF9H386368; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:09:17 -0400 Message-ID: <024f01c0ff1b$3f3aec80$041eff87@jim> From: "Jim Fleming" To: "A.M.Rutkowski" , "Dave Crocker" Cc: , References: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> <5.1.0.14.2.20010627094612.021224e0@dcrocker.net> Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:10:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This appears to all be related to the "toy", IPv4 proof-of-concept Internet ....is that the case ? The "toy" IPv4 Internet is a sewer. IPv8 is designed to be a swamp to cover the sewer. IPv16 is the "high-ground".... ...good luck in the sewer.... Jim Fleming http://www.unir.com Mars 128n 128e http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Crocker" To: "A.M.Rutkowski" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:54 AM Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > At 08:58 AM 6/27/2001, A.M.Rutkowski wrote: > There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin > >Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative > >to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have > >the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; > > In other words, no established practise. That means a human factors > learning curve of unknown length and difficulty. > > > >and it maps much > >more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application > >names (a fundamental flaw of e164). > > Maps more cleanly... once there is a specific proposal for Internet use > that is widely supported, adopted, deployed and used. > > And what is the usual timeframe for such an adoption processes, say to the > 75th percentile of the candidate user base? Is the unit of measure years > or decades? > > > >It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense currently > >in vogue. > > Indeed, structure is always nonsense... until one tries to operate a > serious, large-scale system without it. We await your detailed proposal. > > > >It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or > >other identifiers NAPTR and other resource > >records and even IP addresses using A RRs. > > Excellent! That means that we can continue with our current work and > deployment. > > When your preferred approach reaches a serious level of utility, we can > create the necessary mapping. > > Until then you are debating future, hypothetical superiority, against > immediate, well-understood, practical utility. > > > >E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users > > May be. Hmmm. That means it also may NOT be. > > In any event, pleast note that World Peace is the preferred mode for most > people. The only problem is finding practical ways of achieving it. > > d/ > > > ---------- > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.273.6464 > > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 12:10:32 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA29891 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14984; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14900 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (nordic.cisco.com [64.103.48.45]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA17925 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-64-102-95-119.cisco.com (dhcp-64-102-95-119.cisco.com [64.102.95.119]) by cisco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29125; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:48:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:44:32 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Jim Fleming , "A.M.Rutkowski" , Dave Crocker cc: john.loughney@nokia.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Message-ID: <5245014.993642272@localhost> In-Reply-To: <024f01c0ff1b$3f3aec80$041eff87@jim> References: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> <5.1.0.14.2.20010627094612.021224e0@dcrocker.net> <024f01c0ff1b$3f3aec80$041eff87@jim> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0b1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Discussions about various versions of IP is not to be held on the ENUM mailing list. As WG chair, I declare this being out of scope of this mailing list. Patrik --On 01-06-27 10.10 -0500 Jim Fleming wrote: > This appears to all be related to the "toy", IPv4 proof-of-concept > Internet ....is that the case ? > > The "toy" IPv4 Internet is a sewer. > IPv8 is designed to be a swamp to cover the sewer. > IPv16 is the "high-ground".... > ...good luck in the sewer.... > > Jim Fleming > http://www.unir.com > Mars 128n 128e > http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif > http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif > http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt > http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Crocker" > To: "A.M.Rutkowski" > Cc: ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:54 AM > Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > >> At 08:58 AM 6/27/2001, A.M.Rutkowski wrote: >> There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin >> > Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative >> > to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have >> > the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; >> >> In other words, no established practise. That means a human factors >> learning curve of unknown length and difficulty. >> >> >> > and it maps much >> > more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application >> > names (a fundamental flaw of e164). >> >> Maps more cleanly... once there is a specific proposal for Internet use >> that is widely supported, adopted, deployed and used. >> >> And what is the usual timeframe for such an adoption processes, say to >> the 75th percentile of the candidate user base? Is the unit of measure >> years or decades? >> >> >> > It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense > currently >> > in vogue. >> >> Indeed, structure is always nonsense... until one tries to operate a >> serious, large-scale system without it. We await your detailed proposal. >> >> >> > It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or >> > other identifiers NAPTR and other resource >> > records and even IP addresses using A RRs. >> >> Excellent! That means that we can continue with our current work and >> deployment. >> >> When your preferred approach reaches a serious level of utility, we can >> create the necessary mapping. >> >> Until then you are debating future, hypothetical superiority, against >> immediate, well-understood, practical utility. >> >> >> > E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users >> >> May be. Hmmm. That means it also may NOT be. >> >> In any event, pleast note that World Peace is the preferred mode for most >> people. The only problem is finding practical ways of achieving it. >> >> d/ >> >> >> ---------- >> Dave Crocker >> Brandenburg InternetWorking >> tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.273.6464 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> enum mailing list >> enum@ietf.org >> http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 12:10:54 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA00165 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15061; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15032 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pimout1-int.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA18747 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jim (nas-147-146.chicago-n.navipath.net [64.20.147.146]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5RFsH346520; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:54:17 -0400 Message-ID: <030401c0ff21$877d18a0$041eff87@jim> From: "Jim Fleming" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= , "A.M.Rutkowski" , "Dave Crocker" Cc: , References: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1AD@eseis04nok> <5.1.0.14.2.20010627094612.021224e0@dcrocker.net> <024f01c0ff1b$3f3aec80$041eff87@jim> <5245014.993642272@localhost> Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:55:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by pimout1-int.prodigy.net id f5RFsH346520 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id LAA15033 Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by optimus.ietf.org id LAA15061 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id MAA00165 Your comments from CISCO are noted for future reference. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrik Fältström" To: "Jim Fleming" ; "A.M.Rutkowski" ; "Dave Crocker" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:44 AM Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > Discussions about various versions of IP is not to be held on the ENUM > mailing list. > > As WG chair, I declare this being out of scope of this mailing list. > > Patrik > > --On 01-06-27 10.10 -0500 Jim Fleming wrote: > > > This appears to all be related to the "toy", IPv4 proof-of-concept > > Internet ....is that the case ? > > > > The "toy" IPv4 Internet is a sewer. > > IPv8 is designed to be a swamp to cover the sewer. > > IPv16 is the "high-ground".... > > ...good luck in the sewer.... > > > > Jim Fleming > > http://www.unir.com > > Mars 128n 128e > > http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif > > http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif > > http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif > > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Crocker" > > To: "A.M.Rutkowski" > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:54 AM > > Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > > > > >> At 08:58 AM 6/27/2001, A.M.Rutkowski wrote: > >> There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin > >> > Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative > >> > to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have > >> > the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; > >> > >> In other words, no established practise. That means a human factors > >> learning curve of unknown length and difficulty. > >> > >> > >> > and it maps much > >> > more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application > >> > names (a fundamental flaw of e164). > >> > >> Maps more cleanly... once there is a specific proposal for Internet use > >> that is widely supported, adopted, deployed and used. > >> > >> And what is the usual timeframe for such an adoption processes, say to > >> the 75th percentile of the candidate user base? Is the unit of measure > >> years or decades? > >> > >> > >> > It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense > > currently > >> > in vogue. > >> > >> Indeed, structure is always nonsense... until one tries to operate a > >> serious, large-scale system without it. We await your detailed proposal. > >> > >> > >> > It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or > >> > other identifiers NAPTR and other resource > >> > records and even IP addresses using A RRs. > >> > >> Excellent! That means that we can continue with our current work and > >> deployment. > >> > >> When your preferred approach reaches a serious level of utility, we can > >> create the necessary mapping. > >> > >> Until then you are debating future, hypothetical superiority, against > >> immediate, well-understood, practical utility. > >> > >> > >> > E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users > >> > >> May be. Hmmm. That means it also may NOT be. > >> > >> In any event, pleast note that World Peace is the preferred mode for most > >> people. The only problem is finding practical ways of achieving it. > >> > >> d/ > >> > >> > >> ---------- > >> Dave Crocker > >> Brandenburg InternetWorking > >> tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.273.6464 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> enum mailing list > >> enum@ietf.org > >> http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enum mailing list > > enum@ietf.org > > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > > > _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 12:45:03 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA18171 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17305; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17274 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from air1.airslide.com ([212.150.80.240]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA10208 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:27:34 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:30:24 +0200 Message-ID: <854C0C09E30AD04FB3A0593CCB561F6358F954@air1.airslide.com> Thread-Topic: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Thread-Index: AcD/K6jtV4LuvoS9RG+6+UET9M+StAACBYbw From: "Hong Liu" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= , "Jim Fleming" , "A.M.Rutkowski" , "Dave Crocker" Cc: , X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by optimus.ietf.org id MAA17275 Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by optimus.ietf.org id MAA17305 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id MAA18171 Patrik, I would suggest that we come back to the original question of this thread. The point here is whether E.212 can also be used as a namespace for ENUM-like resolution. If I recall correctly, this point was heavily debated (partially by me) before the ENUM document became an RFC. And, correct me if I am wrong, that the intent then was to move the document forward for E.164 first, and to leave other numbering schemes (including private numbering plan) for future study. I hope the option is still open. Maybe it is time to revisit some these issues given the fact of renewed interests. --Hong -----Original Message----- From: Patrik Fältström [mailto:paf@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:45 AM To: Jim Fleming; A.M.Rutkowski; Dave Crocker Cc: john.loughney@nokia.com; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Discussions about various versions of IP is not to be held on the ENUM mailing list. As WG chair, I declare this being out of scope of this mailing list. Patrik --On 01-06-27 10.10 -0500 Jim Fleming wrote: > This appears to all be related to the "toy", IPv4 proof-of-concept > Internet ....is that the case ? > > The "toy" IPv4 Internet is a sewer. > IPv8 is designed to be a swamp to cover the sewer. > IPv16 is the "high-ground".... > ...good luck in the sewer.... > > Jim Fleming > http://www.unir.com > Mars 128n 128e > http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif > http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif > http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt > http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12213.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg12223.html > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Crocker" > To: "A.M.Rutkowski" > Cc: ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:54 AM > Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt > > >> At 08:58 AM 6/27/2001, A.M.Rutkowski wrote: >> There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin >> > Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative >> > to e164. A number of people noted it doesn't have >> > the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; >> >> In other words, no established practise. That means a human factors >> learning curve of unknown length and difficulty. >> >> >> > and it maps much >> > more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application >> > names (a fundamental flaw of e164). >> >> Maps more cleanly... once there is a specific proposal for Internet use >> that is widely supported, adopted, deployed and used. >> >> And what is the usual timeframe for such an adoption processes, say to >> the 75th percentile of the candidate user base? Is the unit of measure >> years or decades? >> >> >> > It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense > currently >> > in vogue. >> >> Indeed, structure is always nonsense... until one tries to operate a >> serious, large-scale system without it. We await your detailed proposal. >> >> >> > It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or >> > other identifiers NAPTR and other resource >> > records and even IP addresses using A RRs. >> >> Excellent! That means that we can continue with our current work and >> deployment. >> >> When your preferred approach reaches a serious level of utility, we can >> create the necessary mapping. >> >> Until then you are debating future, hypothetical superiority, against >> immediate, well-understood, practical utility. >> >> >> > E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users >> >> May be. Hmmm. That means it also may NOT be. >> >> In any event, pleast note that World Peace is the preferred mode for most >> people. The only problem is finding practical ways of achieving it. >> >> d/ >> >> >> ---------- >> Dave Crocker >> Brandenburg InternetWorking >> tel +1.408.246.8253; fax +1.408.273.6464 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> enum mailing list >> enum@ietf.org >> http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > > > _______________________________________________ > enum mailing list > enum@ietf.org > http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum > _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 14:09:35 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA27482 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA21028; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20997 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:53:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dnspri.npac.com (dnspri.npac.com [208.143.33.66]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA15325 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dnspri.npac.com; id MAA27020; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 12:53:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(209.173.49.231) by dnspri.npac.com via smap (V5.0) id xma027018; Wed, 27 Jun 01 12:52:47 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20010627134644.0320aec0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:57:14 -0400 To: "Hong Liu" , Patrik =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=E4ltstr=F6m?= From: Richard Shockey Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Cc: In-Reply-To: <854C0C09E30AD04FB3A0593CCB561F6358F954@air1.airslide.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org At 07:30 PM 6/27/2001 +0200, Hong Liu wrote: >Patrik, Hong...how are you ?? Some of us were wondering where you landed! >I would suggest that we come back to the original question of this >thread. The point here is whether E.212 can also be used as a namespace >for ENUM-like resolution. If I recall correctly, this point was heavily >debated (partially by me) before the ENUM document became an RFC. And, >correct me if I am wrong, that the intent then was to move the document >forward for E.164 first, correct.... I would certainly like to see 2916 go from proposed to draft ..but there are a couple of things that need to happen first before that is possible. > and to leave other numbering schemes (including >private numbering plan) for future study. I hope the option is still >open. Maybe it is time to revisit some these issues given the fact of >renewed interests. Well as for the issue of private numbering plans there is nothing stopping anyone from using the _technology_ of 2916 for that purpose and indeed there are commercial firms offering that kind of hosted application now...NetNumbers for instance. as for looking into the issue of E.212, I would certainly like to see some discussion of what is the problem statement that the dommety draft proports to solve and as for taking on any new work we had pretty much concluded after IETF Pittsburgh that we would have to consider a recharter. >--Hong RS - the other co-chair... >_______________________________________________ >enum mailing list >enum@ietf.org >http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum Please note new address: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Shockey, Senior Manager, Strategic Technology Initiatives NeuStar Inc. 45980 Center Oak Plaza Bldg 8 Sterling, VA 20166 1120 Vermont Ave NW Suite 400 Washington DC 20005 Voice 571.434.5651 Cell : 314.503.0640, Fax: 815.333.1237 or <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Wed Jun 27 18:44:13 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA09932 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01119; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01088 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA23564 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA21357 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:20:01 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com (tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com [178.3.50.25]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA15356 for ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:20:00 -0700 (MST)] Received: by tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:20:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: Burks Janus-FJB034 To: "'enum@ietf.org'" Cc: Dykes Greg-FGD008 , Miriyala Srinivas-FSM016 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:19:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Enum] DNS question Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org I have a question about the following draft: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-enum-operation-02.txt It has the following example in section 6.1 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . *.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . 1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!^.*$!sip:joe@company.com!" . IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . There is a problem (? limitation) with DNS. Using this example, assuming these three entries only, if you call 987654321102, the DNS query will come back with unknown entry. One of the following entries is needed in order to support 987654321102 in this same server. It will not default to the attendant without one of these entries. *.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . 2.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . A combination of default entries and explicit entries is very complex to specify. If you make an explicit entry(1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa ), then you must make explicit entries for all numbers of that domain (1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa through 9.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa ) that you wish to support or make a wildcard entry for that specific domain (*.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa ). This same rule applies for all levels of the domain. Is this what was intended for ENUM? Jan Burks ************************************************************ Motorola, NSS/NSG/iDEN/SAG Mail Stop: S258-2 Phone: (817) 245-2540 5401 N. Beach St. Pager: 1800-sky-tel2,pin 245-2540 Fort Worth, TX 76137-2794 > Email: mailto:FJB034@email.mot.com > Pager email: mailto:2452540@skytel.com > 2-way pager: http://www.skytel.com/Paging/pageme.cgi?pin=2452540,2 ************************************************************ _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 05:16:37 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id FAA09767 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA00524; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA00493 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from va02.npac.com (inetgw.va.neustar.com [209.173.53.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id EAA09579 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by va02.va.neustar.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F4CD@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: "A.M.Rutkowski" , john.loughney@nokia.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:58:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org See comments in line. The final comment may be of more general interest. -Andy -----Original Message----- From: A.M.Rutkowski [mailto:amr@netmagic.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 8:59 AM To: john.loughney@nokia.com; enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Hi John et al., >[MYH] E.212 number is widely used. Please check MAP spec. >[ ] I believe that some text about this would be very helpful. I do >not think most IETF folks know MAP very well. Also, it could be stated in >more clear terms how MAP over IP (SIGTRAN for example) would need this kind >of functionality. Also, as SIP will be used in 3G networks, service >identification via E.212 could also be useful. There was considerable interest at the recent Berlin Internet workshop in e212 as a namespace alternative to e164. ag: Any URLs for available workshop materials? A number of people noted it doesn't have the 50 years of legacy baggage as e164; ag: See previous comment. and it maps much more cleanly to individuals and ancillary application names (a fundamental flaw of e164). ag: Not clear what this means. In E.212, IMSIs are assigned to identify mobile terminals and/or mobile users. See previous comment. It also doesn't invoke all the tier-1, tier-2,...tier-n nonsense currently in vogue. ag: Not true. IMSIs have 3 fields: Mobile Country Code, Mobile Network Code, and Mobile Subscriber Identification Number. Note that IMSIs already have a tiered structure. Note also that MCCs identify countries or may be shared by certain networks that meet ITU-defined criteria. Note finally that more than one MCC may identify a country, the rest of the resource is a national matter, and that Member States and Sector Members working in ITU-T Study Groups specified the criteria. It can also fairly trivially easily point to e164 or other identifiers NAPTR and other resource records and even IP addresses using A RRs. E212 may be the ENUM namespace of choice by many providers and users ag: Note that in theory, *any* set of alphanumeric strings *could be* the basis for an ENUM-like mapping (reverse string - separate characters with dots - prepend to suitable domain name). (As a thought experiment once, I constructed "ENAME" using a standard 26-letter alphabet instead of an alphabet of the 10 decimal digits. The mapping and protocol that resulted were exactly like those for ENUM as in RFC 2916 (as expected), and there was no reason to write it up or do further formalistic work.) That(!) is the easy part. All the rest, including the infrastructure of the infrastructure, will be just as complex as for ENUM, e.g., for E.212?, for those sets of strings that are identifiers and that have a significant meaning of their own outside the scope of the IETF and RFCs. So, the hard parts come from that "outside meaning" (which is the reason to use non-arbitrary identifiers in the first place) and from all the related mapping issues. These include registration functions/entities and policies/procedures deriving from whatever it was that made these identifiers of value. To go from the sublime to possibly ludicrous, consider two other ITU "numbering" plans. There's X.121 (used for example for X.25 data network terminal addresses). There's also F.69 (telex) - consider what web browsing would be like at telex speeds. Should those plans be ENUMified for DNS-based implementation? The question, "Could E.212 be ENUMified?" is easy. The question, "Should E.212 be ENUMified?" is non-trivial. For the E.212 I-D, further information about intended use, related applications, administrative and coordination aspects, and other relevant matters would materially help with the second question. -Andy --tony _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 07:33:04 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA11903 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:33:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05080; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:14:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05051 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:14:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com (mgw-x3.nokia.com [131.228.20.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA10812 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.1.0/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f5SBFAI17263 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:15:10 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh24nok.ntc.nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:14:47 +0300 Received: by esebh24nok with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:14:47 +0300 Message-ID: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE10680B1EA@eseis04nok> To: Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:14:41 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2652.78) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi Andy, > The question, "Could E.212 be ENUMified?" is easy. > The question, "Should E.212 be ENUMified?" is non-trivial. > For the E.212 I-D, further information about intended > use, related applications, administrative and coordination > aspects, and other relevant matters would materially > help with the second question. Cutting through the fog ... I think this is a good idea. I can see uses for ENUMifying E.212 numbers and this may dovetail nicely into some work that is going on elsewhere - but some discussion of this is warrented. best regards, John _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 10:03:08 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id KAA22857 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10395; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10361 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com [171.70.157.152]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id JAA06721 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:41:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com (mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com [171.69.24.15]) by sj-msg-core-3.cisco.com (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f5SDdrH21963; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GDOMMETY-W2K2.cisco.com (dhcp-161-44-30-173.cisco.com [161.44.30.173]) by mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGK11031; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:41:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010626182436.01785e48@mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com> X-Sender: gdommety@mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:43:52 -0700 To: "Gallant, Andy" , enum@ietf.org From: Gopal Dommety Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt In-Reply-To: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F3BE@dc02.npac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Andy, Sorry for the delay (I was travelling). Thanks for the comments. Please see reply inline. >FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are >not intended "for dialling purposes" even though >they happen to be strings of decimal digits. I agree. >IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility >services, providing unique international >identification of mobile terminals and/or users. I agree. >The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not This term is frequently used. Not sure if I understand the concern. >used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks >a Scenario and examples that describe associated >services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. I agree with u that E.164 and E212 are different. And in that context this draft is not very simlar to RFC2916. It is similar to RFC2916 from DNS perspective. >A reference to the current version of E.212 is: >ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international >identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile >users, 11/98. I will add this reference to the draft. >It would be very interesting to understand the context >for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be >useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts >about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work >efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the existing IP network. IMSI is used to uniquely identify a mobile subscriber globally. When a mobile shows up at foreign network, the foreign network gets the IMSI of the mobile. Depending on the IMSI we want to be able to route SS7 traffic to the Home Network (as obtained from DNS). This is the motivation behind the draft. Doing this will significantly reduce the configuration information that needs to be maintained in mobile networks regarding foreign IMSIs and facilitate sending of these messages using SUA. Going forward there could be other features that can be developed. Regards, Gopal _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 11:47:13 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA06936 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:47:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15680; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15644 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (nordic.cisco.com [64.103.48.45]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA24471 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-2sjc13-85-42.cisco.com (dhcp-2sjc13-85-42.cisco.com [171.70.85.42]) by cisco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05552; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:30:29 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:46:10 -0700 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: Burks Janus-FJB034 , "'enum@ietf.org'" cc: Dykes Greg-FGD008 , Miriyala Srinivas-FSM016 Subject: Re: [Enum] DNS question Message-ID: <7659882.993714370@localhost> In-Reply-To: References: X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by optimus.ietf.org id LAA15680 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ietf.org id LAA06936 --On 01-06-27 17.19 -0500 Burks Janus-FJB034 wrote: > I have a question about the following draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-enum-operation-02.txt > > It has the following example in section 6.1 > 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . > IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . > *.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . > IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . > 1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!^.*$!sip:joe@company.com!" . > IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . > > There is a problem (? limitation) with DNS. Using this example, assuming > these three entries only, if you call 987654321102, the DNS query will > come back with unknown entry. There are also syntactic errors in the example. > One of the following entries is needed in order to support 987654321102 in > this same server. It will not default to the attendant without one of > these entries. > > *.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . > IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . > 2.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > IN NAPTR 102 10 "u" "tel+E2U" "!^.*$!tel:+987654321!" . > IN NAPTR 10 10 "u" "sip+E2U" "!+(.*)!sip:AA@company.com!" . > > A combination of default entries and explicit entries is very complex to > specify. Wildcards in DNS is "not a good thing" and should not be used. > If you make an explicit entry(1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa ), then > you must make explicit entries for all numbers of that domain > (1.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa through > 9.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa ) that you wish to support or make a > wildcard entry for that specific domain (*.0.1.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.e164.arpa > ). This same rule applies for all levels of the domain. > > Is this what was intended for ENUM? One have to generate records for all of the numbers which one want to have NAPTR for. How the generation is done is up to the DNS software one use, and many (like later versions of Bind) have the ability to generate records automatically so one doesn't have to type in all records manually. paf Patrik Fältström Cisco Systems Consulting Engineer Office of the CSO Phone: (Stockholm) +46-8-6859131 (San Jose) +1-408-525-8509 PGP: 2DFC AAF6 16F0 F276 7843 2DC1 BC79 51D9 7D25 B8DC _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 11:52:46 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA11079 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14961; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14930 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA17112 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [136.182.15.8]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA05196 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:20:46 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com (tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com [178.3.50.25]) by pobox2.mot.com (MOT-pobox2 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA28240 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:20:45 -0700 (MST)] Received: by tx14exm06.ftw.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:20:44 -0500 Message-ID: From: Segal Niranjan-FNS001 To: "'Gopal Dommety'" , "Gallant, Andy" , enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:20:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Andy, I am the co-author of the above draft. Here are some more thoughts which might help answer some of your questions and provide some more support in favour of this draft: With reference to the scope/motivation/future work behind this IMSI based DNS, I quote directly from E.212 recommendation: "In order to enable land mobile stations to roam among public land mobile networks located in different countries, an international identification plan is required for unique international identification of such stations. It is desirable that the allocation of international mobile station identities should be made independently of the numbering plans used for accessing mobile stations from the different public networks. This will enable Administrations to develop their own national numbering plans for land mobile stations for different services without the need for coordinating them with other countries. Note - The word "country" in this Recommendation is also used with the meaning of geographical area". Currently, IMSI is used in mobile environment not only for registration, roaming services but also for billing/chrging, subscriber profile updates etc. As far as the future services specific to IMSI are concerned, MNP and perhaps inter-working of LNP/MNP comes to mind. My point here is: although IMSI is treated as an identifier from the E.164 point of view; in fact IMSI, in mobile environment, is being used in conjuction with E.164 numbers as a supplemental numbering scheme. Therefore, the motivation behind IMSI-DNS draft is of importance. Regards, Niranjan Segal -----Original Message----- From: Gopal Dommety [mailto:gdommety@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:44 AM To: Gallant, Andy; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Andy, Sorry for the delay (I was travelling). Thanks for the comments. Please see reply inline. >FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are >not intended "for dialling purposes" even though >they happen to be strings of decimal digits. I agree. >IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility >services, providing unique international >identification of mobile terminals and/or users. I agree. >The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not This term is frequently used. Not sure if I understand the concern. >used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks >a Scenario and examples that describe associated >services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. I agree with u that E.164 and E212 are different. And in that context this draft is not very simlar to RFC2916. It is similar to RFC2916 from DNS perspective. >A reference to the current version of E.212 is: >ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international >identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile >users, 11/98. I will add this reference to the draft. >It would be very interesting to understand the context >for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be >useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts >about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work >efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the existing IP network. IMSI is used to uniquely identify a mobile subscriber globally. When a mobile shows up at foreign network, the foreign network gets the IMSI of the mobile. Depending on the IMSI we want to be able to route SS7 traffic to the Home Network (as obtained from DNS). This is the motivation behind the draft. Doing this will significantly reduce the configuration information that needs to be maintained in mobile networks regarding foreign IMSIs and facilitate sending of these messages using SUA. Going forward there could be other features that can be developed. Regards, Gopal _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 12:47:33 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA19824 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18701; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:30:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18652 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-msg-core-4.cisco.com (sj-msg-core-4.cisco.com [171.71.163.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id MAA07098 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com (mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com [171.69.24.15]) by sj-msg-core-4.cisco.com (8.11.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id f5SGTkN26230; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:29:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GDOMMETY-W2K2.cisco.com (dhcp-161-44-30-173.cisco.com [161.44.30.173]) by mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AGK12491; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010628081522.017c6fb0@mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com> X-Sender: gdommety@mira-sjcm-3.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:31:58 -0700 To: "Shaw, Robert" , enum@ietf.org From: Gopal Dommety Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Cc: "Gallant, Andy" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org At 04:50 PM 6/28/2001 +0200, Shaw, Robert wrote: > > 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is > > considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting > > mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can > > > be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the > > existing IP network. > >Isn't this Q.1901 (BICC)? No. >When you say "existing IP network", do you mean >tunneling over the Internet No >or a private IP-based roaming network? Could be, but need not be a private network( I am assuming that you mean the following by "private IP-based roaming network". If operators have private network and are interconnected to a other operators via VPNs or some other exclusive network). Think of the following example scenario. Basically the mobile networks will have an IP core to which various network elements are connected (such as SIP server, SGSN etc). These cores will be connected via an IP network (could be public or private). Whether the signaling information goes via a signalling gateway or directly to the end node depends on the operator. Hope this clarifies, Thanks, Gopal >With QoS and security issues, I'd imagine it'd have to be latter - >something like GRX. If it's the latter, why would you put IMSIs >into the public DNS? It'd be either a split or private DNS, wouldn't >it? With the potential for fraud, I cannot imagine what would merit >putting these into the public DNS. > >Bob >-- >Robert Shaw >ITU Internet Strategy and Policy Advisor >International Telecommunication Union >Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 14:16:29 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA21902 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23149; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23027 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cisco.com (nordic.cisco.com [64.103.48.45]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA10257 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dhcp-2sjc13-85-42.cisco.com (dhcp-2sjc13-85-42.cisco.com [171.70.85.42]) by cisco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA28228; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:56:42 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:33:52 -0700 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Patrik_F=E4ltstr=F6m?= To: "Gallant, Andy" , "A.M.Rutkowski" , john.loughney@nokia.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Message-ID: <8263274.993724432@localhost> In-Reply-To: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F4CD@dc02.npac.com> References: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F4CD@dc02.npac.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0b1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On 01-06-28 04.58 -0400 "Gallant, Andy" wrote: > (As a thought experiment once, I constructed > "ENAME" using a standard 26-letter alphabet > instead of an alphabet of the 10 decimal > digits. The mapping and protocol that resulted > were exactly like those for ENUM as in RFC 2916 > (as expected), and there was no reason to > write it up or do further formalistic work.) > > That(!) is the easy part. Another problem is though that what you grandfather for the grandfathering to work have to be globally unique. A name of a person is not unique, so grandfathering the names of persons doesn't help. paf _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 14:21:43 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA25498 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23503; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23469 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chi02.npac.com (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA14402 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chi02.chicago.npac.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:05:55 -0500 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F53B@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: Segal Niranjan-FNS001 , "'Gopal Dommety'" , "Gallant, Andy" , enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:06:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org This is good information. In fact, we're in a race condition right now for sending out E.212 quotes! This helps lower my concerns about the many ways that good discussion of issues could have been sidetracked, and I look forward to the next messages on this thread. -Andy -----Original Message----- From: Segal Niranjan-FNS001 [mailto:fns001@motorola.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 11:21 AM To: 'Gopal Dommety'; Gallant, Andy; enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Andy, I am the co-author of the above draft. Here are some more thoughts which might help answer some of your questions and provide some more support in favour of this draft: With reference to the scope/motivation/future work behind this IMSI based DNS, I quote directly from E.212 recommendation: "In order to enable land mobile stations to roam among public land mobile networks located in different countries, an international identification plan is required for unique international identification of such stations. It is desirable that the allocation of international mobile station identities should be made independently of the numbering plans used for accessing mobile stations from the different public networks. This will enable Administrations to develop their own national numbering plans for land mobile stations for different services without the need for coordinating them with other countries. Note - The word "country" in this Recommendation is also used with the meaning of geographical area". Currently, IMSI is used in mobile environment not only for registration, roaming services but also for billing/chrging, subscriber profile updates etc. As far as the future services specific to IMSI are concerned, MNP and perhaps inter-working of LNP/MNP comes to mind. My point here is: although IMSI is treated as an identifier from the E.164 point of view; in fact IMSI, in mobile environment, is being used in conjuction with E.164 numbers as a supplemental numbering scheme. Therefore, the motivation behind IMSI-DNS draft is of importance. Regards, Niranjan Segal -----Original Message----- From: Gopal Dommety [mailto:gdommety@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:44 AM To: Gallant, Andy; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Andy, Sorry for the delay (I was travelling). Thanks for the comments. Please see reply inline. >FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are >not intended "for dialling purposes" even though >they happen to be strings of decimal digits. I agree. >IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility >services, providing unique international >identification of mobile terminals and/or users. I agree. >The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not This term is frequently used. Not sure if I understand the concern. >used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks >a Scenario and examples that describe associated >services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. I agree with u that E.164 and E212 are different. And in that context this draft is not very simlar to RFC2916. It is similar to RFC2916 from DNS perspective. >A reference to the current version of E.212 is: >ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international >identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile >users, 11/98. I will add this reference to the draft. >It would be very interesting to understand the context >for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be >useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts >about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work >efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the existing IP network. IMSI is used to uniquely identify a mobile subscriber globally. When a mobile shows up at foreign network, the foreign network gets the IMSI of the mobile. Depending on the IMSI we want to be able to route SS7 traffic to the Home Network (as obtained from DNS). This is the motivation behind the draft. Doing this will significantly reduce the configuration information that needs to be maintained in mobile networks regarding foreign IMSIs and facilitate sending of these messages using SUA. Going forward there could be other features that can be developed. Regards, Gopal _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 14:22:20 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA26005 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:22:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23455; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23417 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chi02.npac.com (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id OAA14312 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chi02.chicago.npac.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:05:48 -0500 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F538@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: Gopal Dommety , enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:06:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org Hi, Gopal, and sorry for my delay. The brief explanation to your comments is: (1) I worked on the latest version of E.212 and wanted to get some of the info out there, and (2) I'm working on ENUM and trying to learn from the experience. In the Numbering Question (Q1) in ITU-T Study Group 2, "E.212 number" isn't used, and things about IMSIs aren't the same as for E.164 numbers. My intent was to get accurate info on E.212 out on the list ASAP to improve the odds of meaningful discussions and shorter handshakes on terminology. I also wanted to highlight some things that I think are central to discussing your I-D. Some of the issues came from ENUM (is ENUMifying something a "good" thing for the DNS or not), and some come from E.212 (users should almost never know their IMSIs). Your information on the mobile context is very useful and much appreciated. It helps a great deal with understanding why this should be considered. I'm looking forward to the forthcoming discussions on substantive issues. Good luck, thanks, and best regards, -Andy -----Original Message----- From: Gopal Dommety [mailto:gdommety@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:44 AM To: Gallant, Andy; enum@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Andy, Sorry for the delay (I was travelling). Thanks for the comments. Please see reply inline. >FYI, E.212 IMSIs are identifiers. IMSIs are >not intended "for dialling purposes" even though >they happen to be strings of decimal digits. I agree. >IMSIs have to do with roaming and mobility >services, providing unique international >identification of mobile terminals and/or users. I agree. >The term "E.212 number" is incorrect. E.212 is not This term is frequently used. Not sure if I understand the concern. >used the same way that E.164 is. The I-D also lacks >a Scenario and examples that describe associated >services, and it is not "very similar" to RFC 2916. I agree with u that E.164 and E212 are different. And in that context this draft is not very simlar to RFC2916. It is similar to RFC2916 from DNS perspective. >A reference to the current version of E.212 is: >ITU-T Recommendation E.212, The international >identification plan for mobile terminals and mobile >users, 11/98. I will add this reference to the draft. >It would be very interesting to understand the context >for this Internet Draft. In particular, it would be >useful to have some indication of the authors' thoughts >about the E.212-related issues, what some useful work >efforts might be, and what next steps might be considered. 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the existing IP network. IMSI is used to uniquely identify a mobile subscriber globally. When a mobile shows up at foreign network, the foreign network gets the IMSI of the mobile. Depending on the IMSI we want to be able to route SS7 traffic to the Home Network (as obtained from DNS). This is the motivation behind the draft. Doing this will significantly reduce the configuration information that needs to be maintained in mobile networks regarding foreign IMSIs and facilitate sending of these messages using SUA. Going forward there could be other features that can be developed. Regards, Gopal _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Fri Jun 29 03:07:41 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA13506 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 03:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA25845; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA25815 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail2.itu.int (mail2.itu.ch [156.106.192.18]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id CAA01572 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail2.itu.ch with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:51:02 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Shaw, Robert" To: "'Gopal Dommety'" , enum@ietf.org Cc: "Gallant, Andy" Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:50:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org > 3GPP (UMTS/3G standards body - under the umbrella of ITU) is > considering using SUA (SCCP User Adaptation Layer) for transporting > mobile related SS7 messages in the Core network. Details of this study can > be found in TR 29.903. The aim is to transport these message over the > existing IP network. Isn't this Q.1901 (BICC)? When you say "existing IP network", do you mean tunneling over the Internet or a private IP-based roaming network? With QoS and security issues, I'd imagine it'd have to be latter - something like GRX. If it's the latter, why would you put IMSIs into the public DNS? It'd be either a split or private DNS, wouldn't it? With the potential for fraud, I cannot imagine what would merit putting these into the public DNS. Bob -- Robert Shaw ITU Internet Strategy and Policy Advisor International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum From enum-admin@ietf.org Sat Jun 30 03:25:21 2001 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA20079 for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:25:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA20066; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:02:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA20035 for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chi02.npac.com (inetgw.il.neustar.com [209.173.57.225]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id DAA19148 for ; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:02:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by chi02.chicago.npac.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 02:02:04 -0500 Message-ID: <842908F8E14DD511B92600306E0722D066F5D3@dc02.npac.com> From: "Gallant, Andy" To: john.loughney@nokia.com, Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com, enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 02:02:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: enum-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: enum-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Enum Discussion List X-BeenThere: enum@ietf.org (possible duplicate transmission - my apologies) Hello, John. You said, "... some discussion of this is warranted." I agree absolutely. Since there are many factors in the mix that come up during such discussions, it helps to clear up what the starting points are. One factor in getting to "should" is describing what the interesting uses of an ENUM-like capability might be. Another factor is looking into the outside value and the inherent constraints (in this case, those that come from E.212). Below are some excerpts from Rec. E.212 (11/98). It is possible that constraints/intents like those might well conflict with a desired ENUMification. The discussion should include an assessment that considers constraints as well as benefits. This I hope would help figure out the most relevant factors that would be part of the should/shouldn't decision. brgds, -Andy Some excerpts from ITU-T Rec. E.212, "THE INTERNATIONAL IDENTIFICATION PLAN FOR MOBILE TERMINALS AND MOBILE USERS", Geneva, November 1998. Excerpt: Section 2 - Scope This Recommendation describes an international identification plan for mobile terminals or mobile users of public networks enabling roaming capabilities. It also establishes procedures for the assignment of International Mobile Subscriber Identities (IMSIs) to the mobile terminals and mobile users of such networks. This Recommendation describes the format of the IMSI. Excerpts: from Section 6 - Considerations 6.4 The IMSI permits the identification of the home country (MCC) as well as the home network (MCC + MNC) to which the mobile terminal or mobile user is subscribed. 6.7 The identifiers assigned to a subscriber under this identification plan should, for security reasons, not be directly related to the numbers assigned to that same subscriber under numbering plans, e.g. E.164, in use for different services. 6.9 The IMSI should, if necessary, enable: ... c) mobile terminal or mobile user identification when information about a specific mobile terminal or mobile user is to be exchanged between networks offering mobility services; ... e) mobile terminal identification for signalling on the radio control path; f) mobile terminal or mobile user identification for charging and billing purposes; ... h) mobile user identification during the user authentication procedure, e.g. UPT: the IMSI is then called the Personal User Identity (PUI). This list is not exhaustive. 6.10 The IMSI is not used for dialling purposes in the public switched network. Excerpts: from Section 7 - IMSI Structure, Format and Assignment procedures ... 7.2 IMSI Assignment procedures ... 7.2.1 TSB assigns MCCs to countries ... 7.2.2 MNCs are administered by the designated administrator within each country ... 7.2.3 MSINs are administered by the MNC assignee. 7.2.4 The utilization of IMSIs should be such that not more than the first 6 digits of the IMSI have to be analysed in a visited public network for querying the home network. 7.2.5 In principle, only one IMSI shall be assigned to each mobile terminal or mobile user. ... [end of excerpts from E.212 (11/98)] -----Original Message----- From: john.loughney@nokia.com [mailto:john.loughney@nokia.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 7:15 AM To: Andrew.Gallant@neustar.com; enum@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Enum] fyi RE: I-D ACTION:draft-dommety-e212-dns-00.txt Hi Andy, > The question, "Could E.212 be ENUMified?" is easy. > The question, "Should E.212 be ENUMified?" is non-trivial. > For the E.212 I-D, further information about intended > use, related applications, administrative and coordination > aspects, and other relevant matters would materially > help with the second question. Cutting through the fog ... I think this is a good idea. I can see uses for ENUMifying E.212 numbers and this may dovetail nicely into some work that is going on elsewhere - but some discussion of this is warrented. best regards, John _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum