From nobody Fri Oct 3 13:09:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31E91A1BFF for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:09:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -97.645 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-97.645 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.793, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dq5_mh_4nuQS for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.smetech.net (unknown [209.135.219.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88961A1BF1 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [209.135.209.5]) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8AA49A4455 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:09:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smetech.net Received: from odin.smetech.net ([209.135.209.4]) by localhost (ronin.smeinc.net [209.135.209.5]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id trmQsAKgAX9a for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.2.108] (pool-96-255-133-207.washdc.fios.verizon.net [96.255.133.207]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC33C9A4457 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:08:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:08:28 -0400 Message-Id: <00219C3D-2E89-4CC5-AA5A-903D9B92E3E2@vigilsec.com> To: IETF Tools Development Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/fpr15pHNW8FHbXN8FUPq06v36uU Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 14 October 2014 X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:09:12 -0000 Tools Call Agenda -- 14 October 2014 at 13:00 Eastern 1. Datatracker Projects - Report on decision to use Bootstrap for UI -- Russ - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik - Automated Javascript testing -- Robert - Test Coverage -- Henrik - IPR Tool improvements -- Robert - Liaison Tool improvements -- Robert 2. Community & Other Projects - Present a directory view of active, archived, and unknown I-Ds -- AMS - Setup directorate wikis to ietf.org -- Henrik and AMS - Document consequences of mail list rename -- AMS - Mentor Support Tool -- AMS - IETF Website Makeover -- Russ 3. RFC Services Projects - xml2rfc bug fixes -- Alice and Henrik - DOI SOW -- Robert - rfclint SOW -- Robert - text submission converter SOW -- Robert - RSE's Design Team -- Heather 4. Transition of Mission Critical Tools - Moving mail aliases to ietf.org and link them to datatracker database - Moving issue trackers and wikis for IETF WGs on ietf.org 5. Server Infrastructure - Automatic failover from Sunnyvale to Orlando -- AMS - iCal servers -- AMS - IMAP access to the email archives -- Robert 6. IDIQ Contractors - Status of RFP for more IDIQ contractors -- Ray 7. Parking Lot - Support from a Content Distribution Network 8. AOB From nobody Mon Oct 6 06:49:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934691A6F49 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:49:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B6Er0WjQRQSP for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75461A6F9E for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54FFC1E59CE for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c9a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pndX4MlQ10Nz for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (98-125-73-199.dyn.centurytel.net [98.125.73.199]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E20591E59CD for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2014 06:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54329DFE.3040505@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 06:49:50 -0700 From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-development@ietf.org References: <53AAF93D.305@nostrum.com> <53AAFB7B.6020605@gmx.de> <53AAFF2C.6060400@nostrum.com> <53B1D189.3060200@nostrum.com> <53EBE0B1.9000908@nostrum.com> <54107715.4070901@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <54107715.4070901@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000109030907030302060901" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/XoSR2FP4jMcc433vNPD3Ja5PZt8 Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] PublicationFormatter-01 X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 13:49:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000109030907030302060901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Did anyone else have comments to offer on this SoW draft, or any thoughts on my input below? Thanks, Heather On 9/10/14 9:06 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > > I've included my comments in the Word doc (attached) but in case any of them require group discussion, I've also called them out here. > > 1. In Deliverables/Tasks, bullet four is not complete. Do you mean to say "through a web interface"? > > 2. For the first TODO, the example draft that Julian and Paul have signed up for is more a series of examples on how specific components would be handled in v2 vs v3. So probably the existing test draft, updated to use the v3 grammar and reviewed by the design team makes the most sense. > > 3. Regarding "The application suite will accept input using either...", would saying "both" instead of "either" be clearer? One might interpret the "either" as "either v2 or v3, but not necessarily both". > > 4. For the second TODO: I thought PublicationFormatter was in part the grammar converter, seeing as how it includes creating a v3 document from a v2 document? > > On 8/13/14, 3:03 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > This document is still early. The previous version didn't get a lot of feedback (outside the peripheral discussion of folding the v2 to v3 converter into it). > > The below questions are still outstanding. Please comment on them. > > > If you have a "This document is going to have to say X before it's done", please call X out. > > If you think it's enough for work to start from as soon as we fill in the TODOs that are already there, please say that too. > > > RjS > > > On 6/30/14, 4:07 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > >> Ok - since the only feedback I got was to stay generic, the first draft does that and is attached. > >> It is a very small start, but I hope to get enough conversation going before we get to Toronto that we > >> can knock of bigger things in the hallway if we need to.Please review and comment this week if > >> you can. Some specific questions about what the next layer of information here should be: > >> > >> * Do you think the referenced documents supply enough information about the > >> target formats that the folks we would ask to do development would know what > >> to produce? > >> > >> * What other high level user experience requirements do we incorporate here? For instance, do we > >> rely on the separate rfclint to tell people what's wrong with their document if it's not correct enough > >> to convert? Should this application invoke that directly (with an evolution of xml2rfc, that's what > >> would happen naturally). > >> > >> RjS > >> > >> On 6/25/14, 11:56 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > >>> > >>> On 6/25/14, 11:40 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >>>> On 2014-06-25 18:30, Robert Sparks wrote: > >>>>> All - > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm starting to build the first version of the SoW for tools that would > >>>>> make the first set of presentation formats from the canonical XML for an > >>>>> RFC. > >>>>> The requirements will include that people can run the conversion on > >>>>> their own machine on v3 formatted internet drafts. > >>>> > >>>> Just to make sure: this includes the parts that are deprecated as well, right? > >>> yes > >>>> > >>>>> Should we write this in generic terms like "one or more applications > >>>>> that produce the following outputs" > >>>>> or write it directly in terms of extending the capabilities of xml2rfc? > >>>> > >>>> As in the v2 python code, I assume? > >>> yes > >>>> > >>>>> If we produce something written the first way, I fully expect extending > >>>>> the capabilities of xml2rfc to be a strong contending proposal. Do we > >>>>> anticipate any others? > >>>> > >>>> I don't believe we should rule them out. > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, Julian > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUMp3+AAoJEER/xjINbZoG1DEH/RI1t6jUrT9fXx+5RAxyX5R7 IW/QS/HDzLdYQhhxqO2fq5ZzObJy6KK8XcdUVAbYKZJWwT0bVv8w0jGQ7TXMixSY KN1ALKkClS0kBDO+BV82vuT5v6VSQhq8f7x4IY6lvQjqYDUVyhAmmegju3FTwODM 4LLBL9TBrpTcWH/njw4nk+6SNTwogia4oVU0KWoCHxd/FDBGxI1M80QSbXMRapu4 /ltGUWZWrKpSQ0rKMvKU2NMmHtyYv+qsHa3ZbBe8W6WxGqEfxzsrf+bxq/elPggP umF2ZY5rk4SgBkOwTPTBqu28S+yXE9GEwC6SrAdREz0JZPrqVa5Keba5Vd7TE28= =fZ6e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------000109030907030302060901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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Did anyone else have comments to offer on this SoW draft, or any thoughts on my input below?

Thanks,
Heather


On 9/10/14 9:06 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote:
>
> I've included my comments in the Word doc (attached) but in case any of them require group discussion, I've also called them out here.
>
> 1. In Deliverables/Tasks, bullet four is not complete.  Do you mean to say "through a web interface"?
>
> 2. For the first TODO, the example draft that Julian and Paul have signed up for is more a series of examples on how specific components would be handled in v2 vs v3.  So probably the existing test draft, updated to use the v3 grammar and reviewed by the design team makes the most sense.
>
> 3. Regarding "The application suite will accept input using either...", would saying "both" instead of "either" be clearer?  One might interpret the "either" as "either v2 or v3, but not necessarily both".
>
> 4. For the second TODO: I thought PublicationFormatter was in part the grammar converter, seeing as how it includes creating a v3 document from a v2 document?
>
> On 8/13/14, 3:03 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> > This document is still early. The previous version didn't get a lot of feedback (outside the peripheral discussion of folding the v2 to v3 converter into it).
> > The below questions are still outstanding. Please comment on them.
>
> > If you have a "This document is going to have to say X before it's done", please call X out.
> > If you think it's enough for work to start from as soon as we fill in the TODOs that are already there, please say that too.
>
> > RjS
>
> > On 6/30/14, 4:07 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> >> Ok - since the only feedback I got was to stay generic, the first draft does that and is attached.
> >> It is a very small start, but I hope to get enough conversation going before we get to Toronto that we
> >> can knock of bigger things in the hallway if we need to.Please review and comment this week if
> >> you can. Some specific questions about what the next layer of information here should be:
> >>
> >> * Do you think the referenced documents supply enough information about the
> >>    target formats that the folks we would ask to do development would know what
> >>    to produce?
> >>
> >> * What other high level user experience requirements do we incorporate here? For instance, do we
> >> rely on the separate rfclint to tell people what's wrong with their document if it's not correct enough
> >> to convert? Should this application invoke that directly (with an evolution of xml2rfc, that's what
> >> would happen naturally).
> >>
> >> RjS
> >>
> >> On 6/25/14, 11:56 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 6/25/14, 11:40 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> >>>> On 2014-06-25 18:30, Robert Sparks wrote:
> >>>>> All -
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm starting to build the first version of the SoW for tools that would
> >>>>> make the first set of presentation formats from the canonical XML for an
> >>>>> RFC.
> >>>>> The requirements will include that people can run the conversion on
> >>>>> their own machine on v3 formatted internet drafts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just to make sure: this includes the parts that are deprecated as well, right?
> >>> yes
> >>>>
> >>>>> Should we write this in generic terms like "one or more applications
> >>>>> that produce the following outputs"
> >>>>> or write it directly in terms of extending the capabilities of xml2rfc?
> >>>>
> >>>> As in the v2 python code, I assume?
> >>> yes
> >>>>
> >>>>> If we produce something written the first way, I fully expect extending
> >>>>> the capabilities of xml2rfc to be a strong contending proposal. Do we
> >>>>> anticipate any others?
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't believe we should rule them out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards, Julian
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development

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--------------000109030907030302060901-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 09:12:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050851A0362 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EDhfeHj42xoc for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A880F1A0353 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541611E52B2 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c9a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubZ9fsgsKyxb for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [98.125.226.67]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1CDB21E45AD for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <543BF9FD.80107@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:12:45 -0700 From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-development@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/5UCptN0_bYx4CUr7MjqqlpMPP98 Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] need help with draft-flanagan-rfc-framework X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 16:12:44 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Tools Team, I tend to think in terms of where I'm trying to go, not the details of how I intend to get there. In the case of draft-flanagan-rfc-framework, that means I've described a more waterfall model for rollout than I really intend, or than we want future developers to follow. I need help revising that language into something more sensible. Here's where I'm stuck: Testing will involve: Working with existing drafts to first focus on getting the xml2rfc v3 vocabulary and tools right Then, iterate as needed to get the PDF/A-3 correct Then, iterate as needed to get the HTML correct etc. Each iteration will need to inform both the tool(s) and the vocabulary. We will get to a point where we continue to test, but start to roll out "final" XML-based RFCs, where the XML is that canonical format I've been talking about. It is ok to later republish the publication formats (PDF, HTML, etc) rendered from that XML, but it is not ok to republish the XML itself. What we do not want to do is reach the point where we agree to publish a canonical XML file and discover through testing a breaking change to the vocabulary that would render that XML unrenderable based on tool fixes. Given that last requirement, how can I rephrase the language in draft-flanagan-rfc-framework, Section 10, to be less waterfall-ish and more iterative? I want testing, but there's going to be a reasonably clear cut over at some point. Any suggestions? Heather -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUO/n9AAoJEER/xjINbZoG704H/0v9G+lvif5olIQjnAgTXpLJ E9wfAXOSncLZ5pO86YOLTCqnSzqHZm3Rd0YuT/GSjYDvTzYbB4q2kuOx/bBYzNlL qEBUrYUKKtuBbujjTq9dEz20ZZBeocbo715X3Pk67j8+PjXAQHl9RGfSCUCY8Rn9 KXBHrBL94V2Jxw9SyS0tecIqCrUSrHYB+VfSO5ISJRBmQ/iRCHf7KiyT2V5tp8bv XnPL3fifvCFetT2I29YobZRbktubnqQpTVlzOIhdwVS4BOnvtN9aCvHbkfFh0tCo UUiRReDNkiZQl6Wc1GrN9RIQh9hbq51qI/pp0pDSPdZtddSf1RSfFJwCXTRZCnU= =WwBo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Mon Oct 13 15:07:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9391B1A02EF for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:06:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.685 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.685 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pTR6c62c8UFa for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from egssmtp01.att.com (egssmtp01.att.com [144.160.112.12]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE7EF1A02F0 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by egssmtp01.att.com ( egs 8.14.5 TLS/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s9DM6SmS021856 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 17:06:30 -0500 Received: from vpn-135-70-99-159.vpn.swst.att.com ([135.70.99.159]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20141013220623gw100r937ee>; Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:06:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.99.159] Message-ID: <543C4CDD.2020604@att.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:06:21 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RFC Design , IETF Tools Development References: <543C4B85.3040203@att.com> In-Reply-To: <543C4B85.3040203@att.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <543C4B85.3040203@att.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060908040002010802060509" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/guUv1ShgsrE2Aoz-lZouKafyQPA Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: [rfc-i] xml2rfc v2 to v3 prototype converter available X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 22:06:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060908040002010802060509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI, I updated my xml2rfc convertv2v3 web page to fully support the v11 version of Paul's xml2rfc v3 draft. I also announced its availability to rfc-interest. Tony -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [rfc-i] xml2rfc v2 to v3 prototype converter available Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:00:37 -0400 From: Tony Hansen To: RFC Interest In support of the work on the XML2RFC v3 format work, I wrote a prototype of an XML2RFC V2 to V3 converter. In particular, it removes all deprecated elements from v2 and replaces them with their intended v3 replacements. It can be found at . Shortcomings: *) attributes will always be surrounded with single quotes in the output *) inherited list styles are not handled well The option "Output Comments About Conversions" will cause the output to be sprinkled with comments such as: Search for the string CONVERT to find them. There may also be WARNINGS in the output, such as If you have XML that passed the v1 converter but not the v2 converter, you may need to use the "fix XML problems" option. I THINK that it is otherwise complete up to the -11 version of the draft and working okay. A link to the code can be found at the bottom of the page. Tony Hansen --------------060908040002010802060509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI, I updated my xml2rfc convertv2v3 web page to fully support the v11 version of Paul's xml2rfc v3 draft. I also announced its availability to rfc-interest.

    Tony

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [rfc-i] xml2rfc v2 to v3 prototype converter available
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 18:00:37 -0400
From: Tony Hansen <tony@att.com>
To: RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org> 

In support of the work on the XML2RFC v3 format work, I wrote a 
prototype of an XML2RFC V2 to V3 converter. In particular, it removes 
all deprecated elements from v2 and replaces them with their intended v3 
replacements. It can be found at 
<http://zinfandel.tools.ietf.org/~tonyh/convertv2v3/>.

Shortcomings:
    *) attributes will always be surrounded with single quotes in the 
output
    *) inherited list styles are not handled well

The option "Output Comments About Conversions" will cause the output to 
be sprinkled with comments such as:

    <!-- CONVERT moving PI rfc tocInclude='yes'  to <rfc> element -->
    <!-- CONVERT title= moved to <titleelement> -->

Search for the string CONVERT to find them.

There may also be WARNINGS in the output, such as

    <!-- CONVERT WARNING: unknown <list style=numbered> value -->

If you have XML that passed the v1 converter but not the v2 converter, 
you may need to use the "fix XML problems" option.

I THINK that it is otherwise complete up to the -11 version of the draft 
and working okay. A link to the code can be found at the bottom of the page.

    Tony Hansen

--------------060908040002010802060509-- From nobody Tue Oct 14 08:31:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70041A8916 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A-KER3b-TBto for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (mail.amsl.com [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::28]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EFA1A88F0 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4F91E52B2 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c9a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fuSivmugG-VU for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [98.125.226.67]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BBC051E45BE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <543D41C1.1090402@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 08:31:13 -0700 From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-development@ietf.org References: <543BF9FD.80107@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <543BF9FD.80107@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050000020208050806070805" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/rb9blgs3ZrkkwAE1Qohgs0YN8-M Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] need help with draft-flanagan-rfc-framework X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 15:31:09 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050000020208050806070805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 FWIW, I've taken a first stab at better language and revised the plan somewhat based on feedback last week from Russ, Jari, and Sandy. Input welcome. See section 10; this draft has not yet been posted. https://github.com/hlflanagan/draft-flanagan-rfc-framework On 10/13/14 9:12 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > > Hello Tools Team, > > I tend to think in terms of where I'm trying to go, not the details of > how I intend to get there. In the case of draft-flanagan-rfc-framework= , > that means I've described a more waterfall model for rollout than I > really intend, or than we want future developers to follow. I need hel= p > revising that language into something more sensible. Here's where I'm > stuck: > > Testing will involve: > Working with existing drafts to first focus on getting the xml2rfc v3 > vocabulary and tools right > Then, iterate as needed to get the PDF/A-3 correct > Then, iterate as needed to get the HTML correct > etc. > > Each iteration will need to inform both the tool(s) and the vocabulary.= > > We will get to a point where we continue to test, but start to roll out= > "final" XML-based RFCs, where the XML is that canonical format I've bee= n > talking about. It is ok to later republish the publication formats > (PDF, HTML, etc) rendered from that XML, but it is not ok to republish > the XML itself. What we do not want to do is reach the point where we > agree to publish a canonical XML file and discover through testing a > breaking change to the vocabulary that would render that XML > unrenderable based on tool fixes. > > Given that last requirement, how can I rephrase the language in > draft-flanagan-rfc-framework, Section 10, to be less waterfall-ish and > more iterative? I want testing, but there's going to be a reasonably > clear cut over at some point. > > Any suggestions? > Heather > > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUPUHBAAoJEER/xjINbZoGBTcH/iXkqcZE4X692elSYEj+Ujjl +wtoAUqrgm1NujnRYSTLLFzHdjADzNFKU2XlZl7THgxmWYhOjdwyAkr2dVqsPKPq Sl1FpkXA5seRtwCPeriHXRX0ASMLixh7eODkRH7P5muL/xyu/XHnvT8vpHGa4Zw1 w1z+hQhVQ6Mb9z8Eai8xVzCGsOc3ss1GHKuQ7GIzkrr7l4RWI38IxmcUz9Q48kw4 OiEZ03MUk8ZD1az19e4J6onPanMJ53+rFK0m2dW1RwAHTEPPi+lvDLdKG+FgFnhn yHCiPOGnd026bj19UY3EHBlwUM23Qv6NUwQrzG5fKrX48hVAZFw8CiOYCLBLp5w=3D =3D2i8x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------050000020208050806070805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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Hash: SHA1

FWIW, I've taken a first stab at better language and revised the plan somewhat based on feedback last week from Russ, Jari, and Sandy.  Input welcome.

See section 10; this draft has not yet been posted.

https://github.com/hlflanagan/draft-flanagan-rfc-framework



On 10/13/14 9:12 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote:
>
> Hello Tools Team,
>
> I tend to think in terms of where I'm trying to go, not the details of
> how I intend to get there.  In the case of draft-flanagan-rfc-framework,
> that means I've described a more waterfall model for rollout than I
> really intend, or than we want future developers to follow.  I need help
> revising that language into something more sensible.  Here's where I'm
> stuck:
>
> Testing will involve:
> Working with existing drafts to first focus on getting the xml2rfc v3
> vocabulary and tools right
> Then, iterate as needed to get the PDF/A-3 correct
> Then, iterate as needed to get the HTML correct
> etc.
>
> Each iteration will need to inform both the tool(s) and the vocabulary.
>
> We will get to a point where we continue to test, but start to roll out
> "final" XML-based RFCs, where the XML is that canonical format I've been
> talking about.  It is ok to later republish the publication formats
> (PDF, HTML, etc) rendered from that XML, but it is not ok to republish
> the XML itself.  What we do not want to do is reach the point where we
> agree to publish a canonical XML file and discover through testing a
> breaking change to the vocabulary that would render that XML
> unrenderable based on tool fixes.
>
> Given that last requirement, how can I rephrase the language in
> draft-flanagan-rfc-framework, Section 10, to be less waterfall-ish and
> more iterative?  I want testing, but there's going to be a reasonably
> clear cut over at some point.
>
> Any suggestions?
> Heather
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>

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--------------050000020208050806070805-- From nobody Tue Oct 14 09:16:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FC81A87AE for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u141uQcwFcD2 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0698.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:698]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0035F1A87A3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB226.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.140) by BLUPR06MB308.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.23.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1049.19; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:15:35 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.22] (72.237.59.193) by BLUPR06MB226.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1049.19; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:15:31 +0000 From: Ray Pelletier Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8DE77E64-8165-4210-9D9A-9846E90C6FF9" Message-ID: <82D3FE68-7346-4C7E-92CF-EC90AE0C8988@isoc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:15:24 -0400 References: <611044514.7366.1413303284169.JavaMail.nobody@jsj2tc402.webex.com> To: IETF Tools Development X-Mail-Calendar-Part: Yes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Originating-IP: [72.237.59.193] X-ClientProxiedBy: BY1PR0201CA0013.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (25.160.191.151) To BLUPR06MB226.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.140) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR06MB226; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Forefront-PRVS: 03648EFF89 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6049001)(2473001)(199003)(189002)(51704005)(243025005)(377454003)(69234005)(89996001)(66066001)(76482002)(64706001)(71186001)(15202345003)(101416001)(57306001)(33656002)(92566001)(80022003)(46102003)(20776003)(102836001)(568964001)(16799955002)(36756003)(85852003)(76176999)(50986999)(77156001)(92726001)(105586002)(95666004)(77096002)(85306004)(31966008)(120916001)(19617315012)(117156001)(99396003)(512954002)(107886001)(4396001)(40100003)(50226001)(107046002)(21056001)(104166001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(15975445006)(88136002)(110136001)(86362001)(84326002)(93916002)(82746002)(16236675004)(83716003)(62966002)(106356001)(42186005)(122386002)(97736003)(87286001)(87976001)(104396001)(24704002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB226; H:[192.168.0.22]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR06MB308; X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/BNPIGMlBLO0fCWHttC3sMtWyuuU Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:16:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8DE77E64-8165-4210-9D9A-9846E90C6FF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FYI Ray Begin forwarded message: > From: Ray Pelletier > Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte > Date: October 14, 2014 at 12:14:44 PM GMT-4 > To: > Reply-To: >=20 > Hi, Ray Pelletier, > Ray Pelletier invites you to join this WebEx meeting. > =20 > Tools Cmte > Tuesday, October 14, 2014 > 1:00 pm | Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) | 1 hr > =20 > Join WebEx meeting > Meeting number: 828 929 277 > =20 > Join by phone > 1-877-668-4490 Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada) > 1-408-792-6300 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > Access code: 828 929 277 > Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions > =20 > Add this meeting to your calendar. > =20 > Can't join the meeting? Contact support. > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. --Apple-Mail=_8DE77E64-8165-4210-9D9A-9846E90C6FF9 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CDCDD081-994D-4CF5-89EA-DD64B6472551" --Apple-Mail=_CDCDD081-994D-4CF5-89EA-DD64B6472551 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" FYI

Ray
Begin = forwarded message:

From: Ray Pelletier <messenger@webex.com>
=
Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools = Cmte
Date: = October 14, 2014 at = 12:14:44 PM GMT-4
Reply-To: <rpelletier@isoc.org>
=

Hi, Ray Pelletier,
Ray Pelletier invites you to join this WebEx meeting.
 
=
= Tools Cmte
Tuesday, October 14, 2014
1:00 = pm  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, = GMT-04:00)  |  1 hr
 
= = Join WebEx meeting =
=
= Meeting number: 828 = 929 277
=09
 
Join by phone
1-877-668-4490 Call-in toll-free = number (US/Canada)
1-408-792-6300 Call-in toll number = (US/Canada)
Access code: 828 = 929 277
Global = call-in numbers  |  Toll-free = calling restrictions
 
Add this meeting to your = calendar.
 
Can't join the meeting? Contact support.
 
= IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and = other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be = discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session.
= --Apple-Mail=_CDCDD081-994D-4CF5-89EA-DD64B6472551 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="WebEx_Meeting.ics" Content-Type: text/calendar; name="WebEx_Meeting.ics" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BEGIN:VCALENDAR=0APRODID:-//Microsoft=20Corporation//Outlook=2010.0=20= MIMEDIR//EN=0AVERSION:2.0=0AMETHOD:REQUEST=0ABEGIN:VTIMEZONE=0A= TZID:Eastern=20Time=0ABEGIN:STANDARD=0ADTSTART:20121101T020000=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;INTERVAL=3D1;BYDAY=3D1SU;BYMONTH=3D11=0A= TZOFFSETFROM:-0400=0ATZOFFSETTO:-0500=0ATZNAME:Standard=20Time=0A= END:STANDARD=0ABEGIN:DAYLIGHT=0ADTSTART:20120301T020000=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DYEARLY;INTERVAL=3D1;BYDAY=3D2SU;BYMONTH=3D3=0A= TZOFFSETFROM:-0500=0ATZOFFSETTO:-0400=0ATZNAME:Daylight=20Savings=20Time=0A= END:DAYLIGHT=0AEND:VTIMEZONE=0ABEGIN:VEVENT=0AATTENDEE;CN=3D"Ray=20= Pelletier";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO:rpelletier@isoc.org=0A= ORGANIZER;CN=3D"Ray=20Pelletier":MAILTO:rpelletier@isoc.org=0A= DTSTART;TZID=3D"Eastern=20Time":20141014T130000=0ADTEND;TZID=3D"Eastern=20= Time":20141014T140000=0ALOCATION:https://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen=0A= TRANSP:OPAQUE=0ASEQUENCE:1=0AUID:WEBEX-MEETING=20= CENTER-6.0769982-286802302-SU=3Dworkgreen=0ADTSTAMP:20141014T170000Z=0A= DESCRIPTION:\n\n\nJOIN=20WEBEX=20= MEETING\nhttps://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/j.php?ED=3D286802302&UID=3D= 1925668552&RT=3DMiMxMQ%3D%3D\nMeeting=20number:=20828=20929=20= 277\n\n\nJOIN=20BY=20PHONE\n1-877-668-4490=20Call-in=20toll-free=20= number=20(US/Canada)=20\n1-408-792-6300=20Call-in=20toll=20number=20= (US/Canada)\nAccess=20code:=20828=20929=20277\n\nGlobal=20call-in=20= numbers:\nhttps://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/globalcallin.php?serviceTy= pe=3DMC&ED=3D286802302&tollFree=3D1\n\nToll-free=20dialing=20= restrictions:=20= \nhttp://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf\n\n\n\nCan't=20join=20= the=20meeting?=20Contact=20support=20= here:\nhttps://workgreen.webex.com/workgreen/mc\n\n\nIMPORTANT=20NOTICE:=20= Please=20note=20that=20this=20WebEx=20service=20allows=20audio=20and=20= other=20information=20sent=20during=20the=20session=20to=20be=20= recorded,=20which=20may=20be=20discoverable=20in=20a=20legal=20matter.=20= By=20joining=20this=20session,=20you=20automatically=20consent=20to=20= such=20recordings.=20If=20you=20do=20not=20consent=20to=20being=20= recorded,=20discuss=20your=20concerns=20with=20the=20host=20or=20do=20= not=20join=20the=20session.\n=0AX-ALT-DESC;FMTTYPE=3Dtext/html:=09 
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--Apple-Mail=_CDCDD081-994D-4CF5-89EA-DD64B6472551-- --Apple-Mail=_8DE77E64-8165-4210-9D9A-9846E90C6FF9-- From nobody Tue Oct 14 09:41:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981241A8A88 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oz6a9otzzfyF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22f.google.com (mail-la0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A495E1A8A64 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f47.google.com with SMTP id pv20so8704817lab.20 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=XLSUbQCB5fQZa82/LSx+A44QmPm+uaF23wi7S6M1YJM=; b=YLrfz8LOL30oCWTDcgCNxHr2yjHRY9V5MDT7yADd6Aem1ShW7qM0NxpzhYWotmyPYn 3RgzPbRWW38vJd3Exii/m2/Mx8RTAkQdc4rLbggIdfakKVIpFvFRUKRF0WVZ4WD5e7Z7 VYvjds0GUvKIcH5RbArO4trrD29AY0fV8Bx0YoALDk1GP419lFWCAAmFna/gyv+MImQh 6VQDTRki0mfe3Fj/j0Wndv/LgNEqHI4f7oP2uNUaoonzvoRjM1JOLnyXNCsIxLdeC7TI fHWCZDEEewkfpqst8OGnyFo5akCX3YmmbWNEZ23BmaHg9OTN/i7v6H5LLCWvCFUlaEjd eYLg== X-Received: by 10.112.28.75 with SMTP id z11mr6401997lbg.49.1413304877385; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.25] ([98.234.222.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id je9sm5780303lbc.3.2014.10.14.09.41.14 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9D43263E-3298-4269-B0C2-943F89F1F884"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <82D3FE68-7346-4C7E-92CF-EC90AE0C8988@isoc.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:41:14 -0700 Message-Id: References: <611044514.7366.1413303284169.JavaMail.nobody@jsj2tc402.webex.com> <82D3FE68-7346-4C7E-92CF-EC90AE0C8988@isoc.org> To: Ray Pelletier X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/RtCB_837rX5R38fsWacp_3gXHdw Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:41:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9D43263E-3298-4269-B0C2-943F89F1F884 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I will be heading to the airport so I don't think I can make the call. Bob On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Ray Pelletier wrote: > FYI >=20 > Ray > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: Ray Pelletier >> Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte >> Date: October 14, 2014 at 12:14:44 PM GMT-4 >> To: >> Reply-To: >>=20 >> Hi, Ray Pelletier, >> Ray Pelletier invites you to join this WebEx meeting. >> =20 >> Tools Cmte >> Tuesday, October 14, 2014 >> 1:00 pm | Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) | 1 hr >> =20 >> Join WebEx meeting >> Meeting number: 828 929 277 >> =20 >> Join by phone >> 1-877-668-4490 Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada) >> 1-408-792-6300 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >> Access code: 828 929 277 >> Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions >> =20 >> Add this meeting to your calendar. >> =20 >> Can't join the meeting? Contact support. >> =20 >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio = and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may = be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development --Apple-Mail=_9D43263E-3298-4269-B0C2-943F89F1F884 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUPVIqAAoJEK7rdBF357uo6YEH/iBgq4CWpTp6SR9QqWRAwz0V jCZUK55s1Gif00ZEsMcjmCKFLyNImVOo3zD4/l8MWx4pXUZz9KpTGBcI2j/M+Gik wYyG/V1GkjsHJzb944pNtafpF8AfjRZdKkJTL5Rn3AyhtMmIQH338auVI3r4a9sl E1TBrNzvNsXPkGIvxeF2L74GHt2cc5EucFjTcpNdOyXw99T5Wxx4msb0W+OW3VXf FM6UFJlcYaQ0iJF/eFnYg2GE8WWW62rdJnGEThY8hCA5dDJmvrlEumBt5U7MQea/ ljK42bDseK6qxP0LYY2q7SFLXgej9vkgsXW0LSTKoxJVom24bwtG9qW+/H8sECs= =E9RE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9D43263E-3298-4269-B0C2-943F89F1F884-- From nobody Tue Oct 14 09:48:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085281A8AAF for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:48:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aqZB0ByeriQx for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0063.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.63]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A86A1A8AB3 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.19] (72.237.59.193) by BY2PR06MB236.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.47.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1049.19; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:47:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:47:49 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <3E2C1EB0-FE41-4BC7-9209-75C3426FFEF5@isoc.org> References: <611044514.7366.1413303284169.JavaMail.nobody@jsj2tc402.webex.com> <82D3FE68-7346-4C7E-92CF-EC90AE0C8988@isoc.org> To: Bob Hinden X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Originating-IP: [72.237.59.193] X-ClientProxiedBy: BN3PR09CA0014.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (25.160.111.152) To BY2PR06MB236.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.47.24) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY2PR06MB236; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Forefront-PRVS: 03648EFF89 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(6049001)(199003)(51704005)(69234005)(377454003)(189002)(24454002)(2473001)(77096002)(50226001)(107046002)(64706001)(88136002)(76176999)(50986999)(95666004)(106356001)(15975445006)(105586002)(85852003)(21056001)(23726002)(4396001)(83716003)(92566001)(92726001)(102836001)(20776003)(82746002)(66066001)(89996001)(97756001)(42186005)(33656002)(57306001)(19580405001)(122386002)(19580395003)(93916002)(80022003)(101416001)(40100003)(87976001)(47776003)(62966002)(31966008)(46102003)(50466002)(104166001)(120916001)(97736003)(99396003)(85306004)(86362001)(77156001)(46406003)(87286001)(36756003)(76482002)(117156001)(110136001)(104396001)(24704002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR06MB236; H:[192.168.0.19]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/qT3v7FudKVr9KMYoKAjW8-cKPEo Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:48:04 -0000 If you can you may want to check in from the Airport as the TMC will = likely be talking about capital funding for 2015 - 2017 which may ripple into=20= the next Budget and Projections e-vote. ray On Oct 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > I will be heading to the airport so I don't think I can make the call. >=20 > Bob >=20 > On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Ray Pelletier = wrote: >=20 >> FYI >>=20 >> Ray >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >>> From: Ray Pelletier >>> Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte >>> Date: October 14, 2014 at 12:14:44 PM GMT-4 >>> To: >>> Reply-To: >>>=20 >>> Hi, Ray Pelletier, >>> Ray Pelletier invites you to join this WebEx meeting. >>>=20 >>> Tools Cmte >>> Tuesday, October 14, 2014 >>> 1:00 pm | Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) | 1 hr >>>=20 >>> Join WebEx meeting >>> Meeting number: 828 929 277 >>>=20 >>> Join by phone >>> 1-877-668-4490 Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada) >>> 1-408-792-6300 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>> Access code: 828 929 277 >>> Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions >>>=20 >>> Add this meeting to your calendar. >>>=20 >>> Can't join the meeting? Contact support. >>>=20 >>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio = and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may = be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. >> >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >=20 From nobody Tue Oct 14 09:58:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1911A8BC5 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nE3-WxTR-i_l for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 677F61A8F35 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id gq15so8741873lab.40 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:57:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=YodN0tKaoEODcde/H5dyDOv/sdCIA8lTEDJKSsLPYMo=; b=uIjaFPVt0K75Evb5Z6RNVW1BscXTcAs7u2uAgqa8koDgZtSj11XrIjjOmmrzAKRRjH 8xb1JF4RiQp1iVcaV1JlfbQ37aTiCqKYMooYAMjogbNJCbTGhps2HniVacDv0K3myr4d HwhEY5CyQyaTSA56l+whV9FEa4RV8kNEfysjJA6PbUtuLrFVpVjU+cliuW4cG4X84Sir yUu3b+3urHUDAKwOvGawlMDxOyg4jk1M9npH77g93n2wQ0YTbblM/APJh8z1JOr0+kaw EQHM/jpZ0tPk+HvQ2kQtafpojglt0uAd8TN2SZ90RzuQmDRZQ7TvC0xXKbtCSPaqFU9W +k7Q== X-Received: by 10.112.16.195 with SMTP id i3mr1348794lbd.72.1413305878684; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:9:500:76b:e06e:cf75:6dd:ff54? ([2601:9:500:76b:e06e:cf75:6dd:ff54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 5sm5799559lay.4.2014.10.14.09.57.55 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0941828A-616D-4773-B59D-CB1656D8CE67"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) From: Bob Hinden In-Reply-To: <3E2C1EB0-FE41-4BC7-9209-75C3426FFEF5@isoc.org> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:57:47 -0700 Message-Id: <2B891E05-D684-4FFD-B4F8-5D3D55E3C0A1@gmail.com> References: <611044514.7366.1413303284169.JavaMail.nobody@jsj2tc402.webex.com> <82D3FE68-7346-4C7E-92CF-EC90AE0C8988@isoc.org> <3E2C1EB0-FE41-4BC7-9209-75C3426FFEF5@isoc.org> To: Ray Pelletier X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/nssD7523TQln9q6IyrfvJivu7-U Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 16:58:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0941828A-616D-4773-B59D-CB1656D8CE67 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ray, How about if you text (650 387 6118) me when that is close to start with = the call in number info and I will try. =20 In case I don't make the call, I am OK with including some money in our = 2016 and 2017 advice if we think we might spend it. But I think we need = to have a solid plan for this before taking any action and that should = consider alternative like moving to the cloud for some of our capacity. Bob On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Ray Pelletier wrote: > If you can you may want to check in from the Airport as the TMC will = likely > be talking about capital funding for 2015 - 2017 which may ripple into=20= > the next Budget and Projections e-vote. >=20 > ray > On Oct 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: >=20 >> I will be heading to the airport so I don't think I can make the = call. >>=20 >> Bob >>=20 >> On Oct 14, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Ray Pelletier = wrote: >>=20 >>> FYI >>>=20 >>> Ray >>> Begin forwarded message: >>>=20 >>>> From: Ray Pelletier >>>> Subject: WebEx meeting invitation: Tools Cmte >>>> Date: October 14, 2014 at 12:14:44 PM GMT-4 >>>> To: >>>> Reply-To: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, Ray Pelletier, >>>> Ray Pelletier invites you to join this WebEx meeting. >>>>=20 >>>> Tools Cmte >>>> Tuesday, October 14, 2014 >>>> 1:00 pm | Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) | 1 hr >>>>=20 >>>> Join WebEx meeting >>>> Meeting number: 828 929 277 >>>>=20 >>>> Join by phone >>>> 1-877-668-4490 Call-in toll-free number (US/Canada) >>>> 1-408-792-6300 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) >>>> Access code: 828 929 277 >>>> Global call-in numbers | Toll-free calling restrictions >>>>=20 >>>> Add this meeting to your calendar. >>>>=20 >>>> Can't join the meeting? Contact support. >>>>=20 >>>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio = and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may = be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you = automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being = recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the = session. >>> >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_0941828A-616D-4773-B59D-CB1656D8CE67 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUPVYLAAoJEK7rdBF357uolrsH/iInRKDisntGnviyz5T7kiGg DyJTyAN0Q+9YJmlGPfp8S+2lVO2TGL2HyPdxZhMXHWzmHeqVMkZDVY14Qb+2bE0b swIbAZOmgESJ7FuSh4NML74FielSyTmOO+Lc8JZ1yZvmJXIvvL2dIANBIp59XC6c WBnsePcs3XWd7eXzl2vnf1kDYw/FgQlRXvr6ZyCLEv4bJUHQSTt9Om0qLbH9UPOx cOtCaMCSDMh4fcxW2RZfGZMcjqRfSSvCG7dRqzLj2D0iimhM0nxUeiLfJOC3JkW5 HZO29npZ+B2kc1f4ppYOMetF6eFBWF1gCWPjBBJ1n2k1SyqNeiYu+7HnWyOD3mI= =AflB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0941828A-616D-4773-B59D-CB1656D8CE67-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 11:42:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD9E1A909E for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jMb4Xqf1-ZQ2 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0082.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.82]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE1631A0058 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.19] (72.237.59.193) by BN1PR06MB232.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.215.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1049.19; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 18:42:16 +0000 From: Ray Pelletier Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <33EE6C33-1538-4CAD-9694-E742A7C3672B@isoc.org> Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:42:10 -0400 To: IETF Tools Development MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Originating-IP: [72.237.59.193] X-ClientProxiedBy: BLUPR11CA0051.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (10.141.30.19) To BN1PR06MB232.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.215.142) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR06MB232; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0365C0E14B X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(6049001)(199003)(189002)(87286001)(87976001)(86362001)(20776003)(76482002)(89996001)(101416001)(62966002)(66066001)(85852003)(85306004)(117156001)(92566001)(50226001)(92726001)(4396001)(102836001)(99396003)(42186005)(120916001)(104166001)(50466002)(83716003)(15974865002)(21056001)(50986999)(57306001)(107046002)(77096002)(122386002)(97736003)(82746002)(110136001)(36756003)(46102003)(77156001)(229853001)(33656002)(23746002)(80022003)(64706001)(106356001)(31966008)(40100003)(95666004)(107886001)(19580395003)(105586002)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR06MB232; H:[192.168.0.19]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/vgE-nxOLaJKw7SaKSF8VwPybamA Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Notes for 14 Oct Call X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 18:42:21 -0000 All Here are my rough notes from the call yesterday. Ray Tools Call 14 Oct 14 Tools Call Agenda -- 14 October 2014 at 13:00 Eastern 1. Datatracker Projects - Report on decision to use Bootstrap for UI -- Russ - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik - Automated Javascript testing -- Robert - Test Coverage -- Henrik - IPR Tool improvements -- Robert - Liaison Tool improvements -- Robert 2. Community & Other Projects - Present a directory view of active, archived, and unknown I-Ds = -- AMS - Setup directorate wikis to ietf.org -- Henrik and AMS - Document consequences of mail list rename -- AMS - Mentor Support Tool -- AMS - IETF Website Makeover -- Russ 3. RFC Services Projects - xml2rfc bug fixes -- Alice and Henrik - DOI SOW -- Robert - rfclint SOW -- Robert - text submission converter SOW -- Robert - RSE's Design Team -- Heather 4. Transition of Mission Critical Tools - Moving mail aliases to ietf.org and link them to datatracker = database - Moving issue trackers and wikis for IETF WGs on ietf.org 5. Server Infrastructure - Automatic failover from Sunnyvale to Orlando -- AMS - iCal servers -- AMS - IMAP access to the email archives -- Robert 6. IDIQ Contractors - Status of RFP for more IDIQ contractors -- Ray 7. Parking Lot - Support from a Content Distribution Network 8. AOB ++++++++++++ Attendees Henrik Robert Jari Russ Scott Tony Alexa Karen Ryan Glen Heather Sandy 1. Datatracker Projects - Report on decision to use Bootstrap for UI -- Russ Going to migrate custom interfaces to Bootstrap UI Will be working with IOLA to implement renders on multiple devices with a good library of support Deployment in spring of 2015 - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik Henrik released a big one yesterday Another release to Django 1.7 Another with several schema changes all to be done before Code = Sprint Rest will be after Hawaii - Automated Javascript testing -- Robert May not want to track this at every meeting, perhaps only on = major moves - Test Coverage -- Henrik More to do here; when we can get to it; time is booked up to = Honolulu So, after that. After Honolulu - IPR Tool improvements -- Robert At point where we need external testers; close to turn people = lose by week=92s end Ryan - should be able to wrap up Friday - Liaison Tool improvements -- Robert On hold waiting for IPR tool to finish 2. Community & Other Projects - Present a directory view of active, archived, and unknown I-Ds = -- Robert Documentation still needs to be done Waiting on cycles=20 Trying to expose archive under rsync and FTP - turning out to be = painful Behind other things Maybe in or after Honolulu - Setup directorate wikis to ietf.org -- Henrik and AMS Directorate Wikis Decide where the master config and templates which are filled in = when=20 creating a wiki lives on disk =85 /a/www/www6s/trac/.template/ Decide where the individual instantiated wikis live on disk and = as URLs =85 /a/www/www6s/trac// ? =85 www.ietf.org/trac//wiki/ ? Henrik - trac.ietf.org with pointers Set up apache to serve any instance among the instantiated wikis Matt Decide on reasonable default values for the Trac config = settings Copy from tools, review by Matt Decide on how to trigger creation of a wiki (now and in the = future): How tight should=20 the integration with the datatracker be? Should we try to set = things up so that the wiki=20 acronym always is the same as the datatracker acronym? yes, but not automatically triggered from the datatracker yet Write a script to copy and instantiate files from the master and = template directories. Python script using the Django framework for template handling = and pulling group data=20 from the datatracker Maybe, Yes, by Honolulu - Document consequences of mail list rename -- AMS Matt - has prepared the document, is in the process of being = published - Mentor Support Tool -- AMS Still in progress, in early days, working on models - IETF Website Makeover -- Russ Russ - has contacted a member of the community to be PM, will = know by the=20 end of the week. 3. RFC Services Projects - xml2rfc bug fixes -- Alice and Henrik Still some outstanding tickets Henrik - has started doing the fixes and will continue after the = wiki scripts Are tickets prioritized;Sandy to check and prioritize - DOI SOW -- Robert Let=92s not tie to ISOC=20 - DOI RFP - Ray By Monday - Automated Stats and Reporting RFP - Ray By Monday - RFC Editor Website Revamp RFP - Ray By Monday - rfclint SOW -- Robert Pub Formatter Converter SOW was the focus; other drafts point to = this and=20 is blocking completion; still wants feedback from this group on = the SOW and other drafts - text submission converter SOW -- Robert Next steps will include combining several SOWs into one=20 Russ - please comments in the next week - RSE's Design Team -- Heather Team has a call later today; looking for stable drafts in the = next 2 weeks. Expecting a lot more detail in the XML draft HTML largely done Tony has developed a POC tool Framework draft would like input on, esp section 10 Robert - Tony has put in a lot effort in the v2 to v3 converter; = pretty much done Tony - my prototype has things it cannot do; concept is there, = but it might be possible like Python can capture some things my tools cannot; = generally useful, but community may not find it so. Robert - get some road time with this Tony - lots of interest in getting v3 converter done more = quickly; need to finish grammar,=20 develop converter and fix, rinse and repeat 4. Transition of Mission Critical Tools - Moving mail aliases to ietf.org and link them to datatracker = database Henrik - all in Matt=92s hands now; just waiting from feedback = from Matt from testing Matt - will do. - Moving issue trackers and wikis for IETF WGs on ietf.org Russ - behind the directorate setup Henrik - will need repository support 5. Server Infrastructure - Automatic failover from Sunnyvale to Orlando -- AMS Parked; doing their homework - iCal servers -- AMS Matt - IOAC up and running; in the process for setting up IAB = and IESG which Cindy and Amy will manage; awaiting input on numbers; Looking at = end of next week. Alexa - issues including permissions for IESG; calendar for each = IAB Program, private=20 to IAB and program members Jari - calendar contents visible to community? Alexa - start by = making it public - IMAP access to the email archives Ray - ISODE contract this week 6. IDIQ Contractors - Status of RFP for more IDIQ contractors -- Ray Ray - send to TMC beginning of next week 7. Parking Lot - Support from a Content Distribution Network 8. AOB From nobody Thu Oct 30 09:03:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E74C1AD4EB for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:03:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YSFc0xfKj63s for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46A801AD512 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unnumerable.local ([173.64.248.98]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s9UG1xwq028187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:01:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [173.64.248.98] claimed to be unnumerable.local Message-ID: <545260F2.2080404@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:01:54 -0500 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Tools Development Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/7jA6CKgFjLZJHHILN7UaDpxffeE Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] RFC format related SoWs (PublicationFormatter, TextSubmissionConverter, idnits, rfclint, xmlDiff, svgCheck) X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:03:26 -0000 I've put the current versions (updated as described below) at . Here's the status: PublicationFormatter-02: (This remains the rawest document.) I made some minor adjustments based on Heather's feedback. I added Joe's test v3 document to the test documents this project will use. I added a TODO to add (or point to) the requirements for implementing the boilerplate and numbering manipulation the design team has been discussing. TextSubmissionConverter-02: I reverted the suggestion to use an intermediate language (such as markdown) at Sandy and Alice's request. idnits-00: Unchanged since what you saw last. I've received no comments that suggested changes. rfclint-04: I removed the idnits functionality from this, leaving it as a front end for grammar and spelling checks, and for verifying formal languages (such as XML or ABNF contained in a document. svgcheck-02: Repaired nits that Tony identified. xmlDiff-03: Repaired nit that Tony identified and incorporated his additional text. From nobody Thu Oct 30 09:10:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455081A0005 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:09:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKLE2S4XV-RL for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1013D1A005A for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unnumerable.local ([173.64.248.98]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s9UG9o0L028842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:09:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [173.64.248.98] claimed to be unnumerable.local Message-ID: <545262C9.2070800@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:09:45 -0500 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Tools Development Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/KWBgK-9bvqPikIEr6RddBEVaB4E Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Next steps on the rfc format related SoWs X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:09:58 -0000 For reference - these are the documents in flight: PublicationFormatter-02 TextSubmissionConverter-02 idnits-00 rfclint-04 svgcheck-02 xmlDiff-03 The next burst of effort needs to focus on fleshing out PublicationFormatter, and making sure the documents from the rfc-design team that it points to are sufficiently clear to inform implementation. We've talked for some time about combining some of these near the end. We're getting there, and I want to double check what we think should be combined to reduce the number of SoWs. I can see combining idnits, rfclint, and svgcheck into one SoW (that asks for three tools). I'm not sure we want to couple the fates of any of xmlDiff, TextSubmissionConverter, and PublicationFormatter. Is having four SoWs when we're done the right target? RjS From nobody Thu Oct 30 09:16:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA461A0005 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:16:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.909 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4CFWcsv9TWEr for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66A211A0023 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 09:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unnumerable.local ([173.64.248.98]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s9UGGP4E029429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:16:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [173.64.248.98] claimed to be unnumerable.local Message-ID: <54526455.4030102@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 11:16:21 -0500 From: Robert Sparks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-development@ietf.org References: <53AAF93D.305@nostrum.com> <53AAFB7B.6020605@gmx.de> <53AAFF2C.6060400@nostrum.com> <53B1D189.3060200@nostrum.com> <53EBE0B1.9000908@nostrum.com> <54107715.4070901@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <54107715.4070901@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080402090708080507070700" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-development/4DjzH5t_G-_1ckHF_LNn9pv-TS0 Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] PublicationFormatter-01 X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:16:30 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080402090708080507070700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (The difference between 10/30 and 9/10 makes me cringe - I'm really sorry) On 9/10/14 11:06 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I've included my comments in the Word doc (attached) but in case any > of them require group discussion, I've also called them out here. > > 1. In Deliverables/Tasks, bullet four is not complete. Do you mean to > say "through a web interface"? something similar. Fixed. > > 2. For the first TODO, the example draft that Julian and Paul have > signed up for is more a series of examples on how specific components > would be handled in v2 vs v3. So probably the existing test draft, > updated to use the v3 grammar and reviewed by the design team makes > the most sense. Yes (and OBE). I'm pointing to Joe's example input now. We need to build a version of the other test document I point to (from the v2 codebase) that is v3 specific. That will be more than just running it through the v2 to v3 converter - it needs to have things added to exercise the new v3 things. > > 3. Regarding "The application suite will accept input using > either...", would saying "both" instead of "either" be clearer? One > might interpret the "either" as "either v2 or v3, but not necessarily > both". I tried several things here, and ended up leaving the text alone. The problem with the suggestion is it adds the potential confusion that a given document might have both v3 and v2 stuff in it, which is not something we will allow. I think the context makes it clear that a solution that only implements one of the grammars is unacceptable. > > 4. For the second TODO: I thought PublicationFormatter was in part the > grammar converter, seeing as how it includes creating a v3 document > from a v2 document? Yes, this tool is expected to be the converter, and the text in front of that TODO was intended to imply that. Please check the next version to see if it's clearer there. From discussions with Tony, he's suggesting treating his implementation as a prototype that this project will reimplement. > > On 8/13/14, 3:03 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > > This document is still early. The previous version didn't get a lot of feedback (outside the > peripheral discussion of folding the v2 to v3 converter into it). > > The below questions are still outstanding. Please comment on them. > > > > If you have a "This document is going to have to say X before it's > done", please call X out. > > If you think it's enough for work to start from as soon as we fill > in the TODOs that are already there, please say that too. > > > > RjS > > > > On 6/30/14, 4:07 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > >> Ok - since the only feedback I got was to stay generic, the first > draft does that and is attached. > >> It is a very small start, but I hope to get enough conversation > going before we get to Toronto that we > >> can knock of bigger things in the hallway if we need to.Please > review and comment this week if > >> you can. Some specific questions about what the next layer of > information here should be: > >> > >> * Do you think the referenced documents supply enough information > about the > >> target formats that the folks we would ask to do development > would know what > >> to produce? > >> > >> * What other high level user experience requirements do we > incorporate here? For instance, do we > >> rely on the separate rfclint to tell people what's wrong with their > document if it's not correct enough > >> to convert? Should this application invoke that directly (with an > evolution of xml2rfc, that's what > >> would happen naturally). > >> > >> RjS > >> > >> On 6/25/14, 11:56 AM, Robert Sparks wrote: > >>> > >>> On 6/25/14, 11:40 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > >>>> On 2014-06-25 18:30, Robert Sparks wrote: > >>>>> All - > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm starting to build the first version of the SoW for tools > that would > >>>>> make the first set of presentation formats from the canonical > XML for an > >>>>> RFC. > >>>>> The requirements will include that people can run the conversion on > >>>>> their own machine on v3 formatted internet drafts. > >>>> > >>>> Just to make sure: this includes the parts that are deprecated as > well, right? > >>> yes > >>>> > >>>>> Should we write this in generic terms like "one or more applications > >>>>> that produce the following outputs" > >>>>> or write it directly in terms of extending the capabilities of > xml2rfc? > >>>> > >>>> As in the v2 python code, I assume? > >>> yes > >>>> > >>>>> If we produce something written the first way, I fully expect > extending > >>>>> the capabilities of xml2rfc to be a strong contending proposal. > Do we > >>>>> anticipate any others? > >>>> > >>>> I don't believe we should rule them out. > >>>> > >>>> Best regards, Julian > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) > Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUEHcVAAoJEER/xjINbZoGY/4IALqHE/NOJe8NamQFQdL3s/cS > AJ5aiLsQtZH0rmVk2NrEdUx+/JwiyrVOEGxIrK1Ir9IyanCuzyinz5IJNntT4+t7 > Oi06Vy9gQGAE07V5ciNIeSXPzqd3YPISIaluh0t2Xweja45uIm39/jEZrzkw8SBK > K4ulCKjbO4C99FRY29ZdorX5PUhYanu+wJoo2L+Xd+92N0RbO74ERGBig6aw2MmR > CkBDKr3hjI7bx43dYde0cXU9wWfWNJm0AE/btJGh9hyvPezu4TJO9meXoZ0Lu+xc > biLu981sgZgNsdyLmY20qmlKVGgNqm2xr0M5SktbMQUj1fu1bmAZmJLtYjgSfD0= > =3zhE > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development --------------080402090708080507070700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit (The difference between 10/30 and 9/10 makes me cringe - I'm really sorry)


On 9/10/14 11:06 AM, Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) wrote:

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I've included my comments in the Word doc (attached) but in case any of them require group discussion, I've also called them out here.

1. In Deliverables/Tasks, bullet four is not complete.  Do you mean to say "through a web interface"?
something similar. Fixed.

2. For the first TODO, the example draft that Julian and Paul have signed up for is more a series of examples on how specific components would be handled in v2 vs v3.  So probably the existing test draft, updated to use the v3 grammar and reviewed by the design team makes the most sense.
Yes (and OBE). I'm pointing to Joe's example input now. We need to build a version of the other test document I point to (from the v2 codebase) that is v3 specific. That will be more than just running it through the v2 to v3 converter - it needs to have things added to exercise the new v3 things.

3. Regarding "The application suite will accept input using either...", would saying "both" instead of "either" be clearer?  One might interpret the "either" as "either v2 or v3, but not necessarily both".
I tried several things here, and ended up leaving the text alone.
The problem with the suggestion is it adds the potential confusion that a given document might have both v3 and v2 stuff in it, which is not something we will allow. I think the context makes it clear that a solution that only implements one of the grammars is unacceptable.

4. For the second TODO: I thought PublicationFormatter was in part the grammar converter, seeing as how it includes creating a v3 document from a v2 document?
Yes, this tool is expected to be the converter, and the text in front of that TODO was intended to imply that. Please check the next version to see if it's clearer there. From discussions with Tony, he's suggesting treating his implementation as a prototype that this project will reimplement.

On 8/13/14, 3:03 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
> This document is still early. The previous version didn't get a lot of feedback (outside the peripheral discussion of folding the v2 to v3 converter into it).
> The below questions are still outstanding. Please comment on them.
>
> If you have a "This document is going to have to say X before it's done", please call X out.
> If you think it's enough for work to start from as soon as we fill in the TODOs that are already there, please say that too.
>
> RjS
>
> On 6/30/14, 4:07 PM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>> Ok - since the only feedback I got was to stay generic, the first draft does that and is attached.
>> It is a very small start, but I hope to get enough conversation going before we get to Toronto that we
>> can knock of bigger things in the hallway if we need to.Please review and comment this week if
>> you can. Some specific questions about what the next layer of information here should be:
>>
>> * Do you think the referenced documents supply enough information about the
>>    target formats that the folks we would ask to do development would know what
>>    to produce?
>>
>> * What other high level user experience requirements do we incorporate here? For instance, do we
>> rely on the separate rfclint to tell people what's wrong with their document if it's not correct enough
>> to convert? Should this application invoke that directly (with an evolution of xml2rfc, that's what
>> would happen naturally).
>>
>> RjS
>>
>> On 6/25/14, 11:56 AM, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>
>>> On 6/25/14, 11:40 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
>>>> On 2014-06-25 18:30, Robert Sparks wrote:
>>>>> All -
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm starting to build the first version of the SoW for tools that would
>>>>> make the first set of presentation formats from the canonical XML for an
>>>>> RFC.
>>>>> The requirements will include that people can run the conversion on
>>>>> their own machine on v3 formatted internet drafts.
>>>>
>>>> Just to make sure: this includes the parts that are deprecated as well, right?
>>> yes
>>>>
>>>>> Should we write this in generic terms like "one or more applications
>>>>> that produce the following outputs"
>>>>> or write it directly in terms of extending the capabilities of xml2rfc?
>>>>
>>>> As in the v2 python code, I assume?
>>> yes
>>>>
>>>>> If we produce something written the first way, I fully expect extending
>>>>> the capabilities of xml2rfc to be a strong contending proposal. Do we
>>>>> anticipate any others?
>>>>
>>>> I don't believe we should rule them out.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Julian
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list
> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development

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