From nobody Mon Jan 9 12:49:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A0F1294EA for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:49:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAzaYrcWKb0N for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F1411294B6 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8863002C6 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:39:15 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id lAO_e-cGYT2D for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:39:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69A95300253 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:39:14 -0500 (EST) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:49:30 -0500 References: <9B840E32-316D-47DD-8C90-24B0AFB6B93F@ietf.org> To: IETF Tools Development Message-Id: <94071575-34D8-4A5A-AEEA-72124CFBE0D3@vigilsec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Fwd: Call for broader participation in IETF Tools work X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 20:49:34 -0000 Forwarding to make sure that everyone saw this call for greater = participation. Russ Begin forwarded message: > From: IETF Chair > Subject: Call for broader participation in IETF Tools work > Date: January 9, 2017 at 2:44:45 PM EST > To: IETF Announcement List > Cc: IETF Discussion , Russ Housley = > Reply-To: chair@ietf.org, Russ Housley , IETF = Discussion >=20 > We would like to draw your attention to work on tools that serve > the IETF, and we would like to signal for a need to draw in > further people and vendors in this effort. >=20 > Part of the work is on a volunteer basis, both in our Code > Sprints [1] and through various long-term efforts. Part of the > work is run on a commercial basis, e.g., operations of the=20 > various IT systems that our Secretariat provides or the > implementation of various new tools that we have decided > to implement. The commercial efforts typically require some > volunteer effort as well, for instance, Robert Sparks is the=20 > project manager for all datatracker related efforts and Joe > Hildebrand is the project manager for the IETF web site > redesign project. >=20 > Thanks to all of the volunteers for their efforts. We are VERY=20 > grateful for their work, and it is necessary work. But at the same,=20 > we are realizing that resources are spread fairly thin. We=92re happy > about the turnout in the IETF Code Sprints, but would love to get > more people. And we would love to have individuals who care=20 > about particular tooling issues enough to adopt them as their=20 > longer term project and take them to completion. Getting=20 > involved with the volunteer tools work starts best at the Code > Sprint, however. The next one will be on Saturday, March 25,=20 > just before the IETF begins in Chicago. Join us [2], and book=20 > your flight tickets so that you can spend the Saturday with us! >=20 > But the same issue applies even to the commercial parts [3], and > we would like to have more companies or capable individuals bid > for some of the projects. The Technology Management Committee > and the IAOC have recently awarded the projects for building the > tools necessary for the new RFC format, for instance, to two=20 > individuals that are very active in the IETF community, one of > which was already doing quite a lot for the IETF. For the long-term > sustainability of the IETF IT and tool efforts, we would desperately > like to extend the set of people and companies looking at and=20 > bidding on these efforts. We know that many individuals in the IETF > sphere have capabilities in this area, and we=92d like to draw your > attention to this opportunity as well. We welcome first time = qualified > bidders, and we pay competitively. If you can do the work, a=20 > contract to work on open source tools for the IETF can be rewarding. >=20 > Jari Arkko, IETF Chair > Russ Housley, Chair of the IAOC Tools Committee >=20 > [1] Code Sprint IETF 98 Chicago = https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF98Sprint > [2] Sprint Sign-Up Page = https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF98SprintSignUp > [3] RFPs for Tools Development https://iaoc.ietf.org/rfps.html From nobody Mon Jan 9 12:54:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73F12129578 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2n0sli8CqADg for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0A731288B8 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 12:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9836030025B for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:43:58 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id JkmsND-Ja0hS for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:43:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 778C9300253 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:43:57 -0500 (EST) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:54:13 -0500 To: IETF Tools Development Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 20:54:16 -0000 Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern 1. Datatracker Projects - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert -- Author Statistics 2. Community & Other Projects - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe 3. RFC Services Projects - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert -- CSS for the RFCs -- IDnits -- Publication Formatter -- RFClint -- SVGcheck -- Text Submission -- XMLdiff 4. Server Infrastructure - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik 5. Parking Lot - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- Robert - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- Robert - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they become = available - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 - Meeting registration support for internationalized email addresses -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail lists 6. AOB From nobody Mon Jan 9 13:18:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19CA1295D8 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:18:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vqudR1J-u7FL for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C6101294E4 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from unnumerable.local ([47.186.22.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v09LIpN1089646 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:51 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.22.210] claimed to be unnumerable.local To: tools-development@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 15:18:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 21:18:54 -0000 Some notes to assist with call time tomorrow. On 1/9/17 2:54 PM, Russ Housley wrote: > Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern > > 1. Datatracker Projects > - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik > -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan As expected, developers were away for much of the holiday season so the delta between tools meetings isn't as high as it usually is. But progress has been made, and the MergePlan has been updated. > - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert > -- Author Statistics This is well underway, with a significant part of the project checked in last week. > > 2. Community & Other Projects > - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan Ryan can provide more detail, but we're targetting finishing this project within the next two weeks. There are still a couple of iterations that are not released. > - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe > > 3. RFC Services Projects > - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert > -- CSS for the RFCs The initial CSS created by the project has been community reviewed. Issues and suggestions are captured at the github instance for this document at https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues. Heather is iterating with the developer to decide which of the issues will result in a change to the css delivered by this project. > -- IDnits > -- Publication Formatter > -- RFClint > -- SVGcheck > -- Text Submission > -- XMLdiff These were awarded in late December. The developers are in the getting set up. > > 4. Server Infrastructure > - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben The IESG had a long discussion in a late December informal telechat. They are still weighing options. The proposed actions all involve waiting for a newer version of mailman to deploy (which will happen with the impending server upgrades). The proposal getting the most traction will also involve some development and configuration time if it is pursued. > - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik > - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik > > 5. Parking Lot > - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik > - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik > - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert > - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- Robert > - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- Robert > - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? > - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik > - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert > - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub > - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation > - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to > - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they become available > - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses > -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 > - Meeting registration support for internationalized email addresses > -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail lists > > 6. AOB > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Mon Jan 9 20:31:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B745129E7A for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:31:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y0rox_sweERC for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C618129E7E for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AA51E5657; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:30:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MDJK4SHKddiw; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.40.146] (static-24-113-209-104.wavecable.com [24.113.209.104]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0DB561E5656; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:30:56 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Heather Flanagan X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14C92) In-Reply-To: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 20:31:04 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 04:31:09 -0000 ... >>=20 >> 3. RFC Services Projects >> - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert >> -- CSS for the RFCs > The initial CSS created by the project has been community reviewed. Issues= and suggestions are captured at the github instance for this document at ht= tps://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues. Heather is iterati= ng with the developer to decide which of the issues will result in a change t= o the css delivered by this project. >> -- IDnits >> -- Publication Formatter >> -- RFClint >> -- SVGcheck >> -- Text Submission >> -- XMLdiff > These were awarded in late December. The developers are in the getting set= up. >>=20 >=20 I don't have anything to add to Robert's update, and am tied up with somethi= ng else during the call time. So, regrets from me but am happy to follow up a= nd answer questions if they come up. -Heather= From nobody Mon Jan 9 21:31:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EE1129F27 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:31:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AYg6I0n9mM9Q for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BB1129F1A for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925BE2CFC6; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:31:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2KZH9_d_x9u8; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:31:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000A82CCAF; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:31:24 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0E612C0B-98A4-4D2D-A4B1-36B436ABCED7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 07:31:24 +0200 Message-Id: <58BD17B7-172A-490B-8164-443E4712FD62@piuha.net> References: To: Russ Housley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 05:31:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0E612C0B-98A4-4D2D-A4B1-36B436ABCED7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I will try to be on the call, but I=92m also on my way to airport/in = taxis/security around the time. Jari --Apple-Mail=_0E612C0B-98A4-4D2D-A4B1-36B436ABCED7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYdHGsAAoJEM80gCTQU46qlEUP/39Vx/zgddBs0NCjK+tirJ+C xCqkciHw6IW/4uFgR8OiK3ByjitFi0SCokizFMwnSx7yCTBB05J8xct8JNRVfd3Z CBCuRxfTZPQ8kWVbQrv61/dBm/ARsLjU3oA0j6uYW8mITbrkQS5+/5MxEU02/op5 2ArCisWcEQOH7IkWI6Ko9sDLtwuVtcy0Ed54Pm5fob9qQSamfvebnWl2tjeKUxic yDLM2SA9P+0SekCm7YF8+mthCr6X6/4fiMgsXZwOVkJ9ptoVIPmlSGz1PT2KT9cf iXFJ3k/Mu8YZuvIuBAc0otSa6uE7UfqSsgvxtoIMfJQOAY+gMTJujh/P63dmrmH6 jOsb5OksyAVAOgjveFmLFM5iNdMGewv3Gx1iu2w1v9LC2HkGw93tulpgrEX37DLF Yt+khdBTcm3HQB4/yvnjBbwTwye4Xyy6duV1Ik4yJWn6/nB3inTRS8aLTueppozf YEYnSad3trEgy1k0cX7C0Ec9BxAHo3Gsn61ZV6DNKNihXEZ156WDGkdkBdci/2RV QgQTOyqHVPm6bIgkLvBNNjLlIbvkurRX5jx5jTC7v2t4ZayxSshPFdXSkTsoNZYb ctRrcr3VdYcuuu5biBabNOUwI9gW4CX00iGJfYNODYTCg1srgoFjR0ZIIIWcGXs4 uw9uSPqhKaOrnczOYSye =If8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0E612C0B-98A4-4D2D-A4B1-36B436ABCED7-- From nobody Tue Jan 10 02:38:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8E3127A91 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:38:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXoXIUQycTAD for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC5A31293DC for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-43-30.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([79.136.43.30]:56923 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cQtok-0002n2-Ke; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 02:38:15 -0800 To: Robert Sparks , tools-development@ietf.org References: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <5874B987.4060004@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 11:37:59 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xbgwAMUrKi0mFvFNR8UM9R7LngPMJ3xLE" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.43.30 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-development@ietf.org, rjsparks@nostrum.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:38:17 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --xbgwAMUrKi0mFvFNR8UM9R7LngPMJ3xLE Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="rmdn488ShtGPEFaAMhvLIQbH1NAhkhPhD"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Robert Sparks , tools-development@ietf.org Message-ID: <5874B987.4060004@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern References: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <758aa6f0-2364-4660-4b11-590c15700fcc@nostrum.com> --rmdn488ShtGPEFaAMhvLIQbH1NAhkhPhD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few additional notes: On 2017-01-09 22:18, Robert Sparks wrote: > Some notes to assist with call time tomorrow. >=20 >=20 > On 1/9/17 2:54 PM, Russ Housley wrote: >> Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern >> >> 1. Datatracker Projects >> - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik >> -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan > > As expected, developers were away for much of the holiday season so the= =20 > delta between tools meetings isn't as high as it usually is. > But progress has been made, and the MergePlan has been updated. > >> - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert >> -- Author Statistics > > This is well underway, with a significant part of the project checked i= n=20 > last week. > >> >> 2. Community & Other Projects >> - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan > > Ryan can provide more detail, but we're targetting finishing this=20 > project within the next two weeks. There are still a couple of=20 > iterations that are not released. > >> - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe >> >> 3. RFC Services Projects >> - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert= >> -- CSS for the RFCs > > The initial CSS created by the project has been community reviewed.=20 > Issues and suggestions are captured at the github instance for this=20 > document at https://github.com/rfc-format/draft-iab-rfc-css-bis/issues.= =20 > Heather is iterating with the developer to decide which of the issues=20 > will result in a change to the css delivered by this project. > >> -- IDnits >> -- Publication Formatter >> -- RFClint >> -- SVGcheck >> -- Text Submission >> -- XMLdiff > > These were awarded in late December. The developers are in the getting = > set up. > >> >> 4. Server Infrastructure >> - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben > > The IESG had a long discussion in a late December informal telechat.=20 > They are still weighing options. The proposed actions all involve=20 > waiting for a newer version of mailman to deploy (which will happen wit= h=20 > the impending server upgrades). The proposal getting the most traction = > will also involve some development and configuration time if it is purs= ued. > >> - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik =20 Now working on 1.9. I've gone through the list of incompatible changes in the release notes and adjusted as needed, and dealt with immediate deprecation warnings (or silenced them, for warnings in libs rather than own code). One very large batch of combined deprecation fixes and change= of idiom from an old convoluted form to a new straightforward form also done. =20 One add-in field type we have been using (TimedeltaField) does not work a= ny more in 1.9, to the point that migrations to the new built-in DurationFie= ld could not even be written. This has been solved by doing a new trunk release under 1.8 to migrate to DurationField, and merging the 1.9 branch= changes forward to a copy of that. =20 Now iterating through the test suite, which tickles occasional new deprecation warnings or issues discovered by the stricter checks in 1.9. =20 When the test suite is clean, a final revisit of the release notes, item by item, will be done. =20 >> - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik =20 Now rescheduled as item 5 of the PLAN file, after the Django 1.9/1.10 upgrades and a bunch of small cleanup and schema chanage items. =20 >> >> 5. Parking Lot >> - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik >> - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik >> - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert >> - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- Rob= ert >> - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- Rober= t >> - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? >> - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik >> - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert >> - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub >> - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation >> - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to >> - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they bec= ome available >> - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses >> -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 >> - Meeting registration support for internationalized email address= es >> -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail lis= ts >> >> 6. AOB --rmdn488ShtGPEFaAMhvLIQbH1NAhkhPhD-- --xbgwAMUrKi0mFvFNR8UM9R7LngPMJ3xLE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYdLmOAAoJEE6bV0uPuxcax/kQAINFOYARtVRNe25xzlhTC+MR Cyvzcgex5D9Sa9mrdAXm37b2ju7soYaORAPNWBk77Q1Bv0GPzIajXbIzuqZ+ILVm x86OZalao9y4RelThFgdTgepz8WgRc+pdtbNVTyFUnKjm8R8jhlYCK6IWGFZSpVa dcVZeS8XVmznSCmSBZJqoiBVbUqTo9qCkDSGLN4uWhlUYPvMVYjq2kEXCRBRCAEC hFGeErPmRVNYkQ6+gFOiKg3vRxlk28hcge9b+k8Jn3WFEZXXAb1F8r/0F89/zcof BO0m9apb0KK8O0XgDun4U636m9G2d81kD9vqVFSkrsXp85aqR/pKJb1Wt00ulYyD WTmLVNiUpxOqN/+S/yVXGrEzdFLQRNpNeX6aPPFhAA8iZ1BpQlm/orr6Y8tCxMwO haJCMW9wmKDcqsNZ0Fm2395itde4y+Q+9p5nPV9WKLwL2GVPlAzi3B5UhiP9sz23 Pd1R4MLc6pFlRf97nvkLdRITEEEYCLZCNIt18LOcajhwU6WP0J07sAM91kfTWa2g /iNJiLSwgLbGQkhv4qLFQ7tCuD5UwX172OqPim3d9NOxPH5/R4FrN4VH8olJxQV+ /mNPb6uUB7gP66R1WQwPJ45MCmXlN1BwFIPtV1twwgvtKKakE+BSJ04RaiP6YLtL 4NKWlftP5uhqKk7zrk1S =ho5g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xbgwAMUrKi0mFvFNR8UM9R7LngPMJ3xLE-- From nobody Tue Jan 10 10:23:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D838129D79 for ; 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Datatracker Projects > - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik > -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan > - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert > -- Author Statistics >=20 > 2. Community & Other Projects > - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan > - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe As promised on today=E2=80=99s call, here is the link to the update = timeline that aims to provide more detail, particularly around the = community roll-out: = https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dvVnCzVDRuyFoslwLBImLwMwVpjw8aSrd7= zB6i_cM3k/edit?usp=3Dsharing -Greg >=20 > 3. RFC Services Projects > - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert > -- CSS for the RFCs > -- IDnits > -- Publication Formatter > -- RFClint > -- SVGcheck > -- Text Submission > -- XMLdiff >=20 > 4. Server Infrastructure > - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben > - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik > - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik >=20 > 5. Parking Lot > - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik > - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik > - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert > - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- = Robert > - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- Robert > - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? > - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik > - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert > - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub > - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation > - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to > - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they = become available > - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses > -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 > - Meeting registration support for internationalized email addresses > -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail lists >=20 > 6. AOB >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Tue Jan 10 10:47:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D07312953D for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:47:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JU0uEEfMDQfE for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9CC5129509 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 10:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from unnumerable.local ([47.186.22.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0AIlQAL081378 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:47:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.22.210] claimed to be unnumerable.local To: tools-development@ietf.org References: <42DBDF20-358A-4B1D-8E02-C653DA5D645A@isoc.org> From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <9336065e-08a1-4533-f242-6e02019cbfaa@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 12:47:26 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42DBDF20-358A-4B1D-8E02-C653DA5D645A@isoc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 18:47:30 -0000 Hi Greg - Thanks for sending this update. I'm concerned that there isn't time for the revampers to actually _do_ any review. With the current flow, you're expecting that review to happen within one week (and assuming that the teleconference will happen at the beginning of that week). My instinct is that the review (if done meaningfully) will take more like 2-3 full weeks (people are going to have to do this on top of their job and other volunteer work). Do we have a disconnect about what we're expecting the revampers to _do_? Do you have instructions for them put together yet? RjS On 1/10/17 12:23 PM, Greg Wood wrote: > Hi, > >> On Jan 9, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Russ Housley wrote: >> >> Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern >> >> 1. Datatracker Projects >> - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik >> -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan >> - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert >> -- Author Statistics >> >> 2. Community & Other Projects >> - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan >> - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe > As promised on today’s call, here is the link to the update timeline that aims to provide more detail, particularly around the community roll-out: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dvVnCzVDRuyFoslwLBImLwMwVpjw8aSrd7zB6i_cM3k/edit?usp=sharing > > -Greg > >> 3. RFC Services Projects >> - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert >> -- CSS for the RFCs >> -- IDnits >> -- Publication Formatter >> -- RFClint >> -- SVGcheck >> -- Text Submission >> -- XMLdiff >> >> 4. Server Infrastructure >> - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben >> - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik >> - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik >> >> 5. Parking Lot >> - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik >> - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik >> - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert >> - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- Robert >> - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- Robert >> - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? >> - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik >> - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert >> - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub >> - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation >> - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to >> - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they become available >> - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses >> -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 >> - Meeting registration support for internationalized email addresses >> -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail lists >> >> 6. AOB >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Tue Jan 10 11:31:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3A51297F1 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2017 11:31:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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With the current flow, you're expecting that review to = happen within one week (and assuming that the teleconference will happen = at the beginning of that week). My instinct is that the review (if done = meaningfully) will take more like 2-3 full weeks (people are going to = have to do this on top of their job and other volunteer work). Do we = have a disconnect about what we're expecting the revampers to _do_? Do = you have instructions for them put together yet? I suspect we might have a disconnect. I don=E2=80=99t have a = review/discussion guide yet, but that's probably a good tool to spark = the conversation. I=E2=80=99ll work on this (as well as the review guide = for the Key Audience groups), aim to have a conversation with Joe about = them as a first step, and then plan to share next week. -Greg >=20 > RjS >=20 >=20 > On 1/10/17 12:23 PM, Greg Wood wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >>> On Jan 9, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Russ Housley = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Tools Call Agenda -- 10 Jan 2017 at 1:00 Eastern >>>=20 >>> 1. Datatracker Projects >>> - Expected Datatracker Releases -- Robert and Henrik >>> -- http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/MergePlan >>> - Contracts for Datatracker Enhancements -- Robert >>> -- Author Statistics >>>=20 >>> 2. Community & Other Projects >>> - Improvements to the mail archive application -- Robert and Ryan >>> - IETF Website Makeover -- Greg and Joe >> As promised on today=E2=80=99s call, here is the link to the update = timeline that aims to provide more detail, particularly around the = community roll-out: >>=20 >> = https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dvVnCzVDRuyFoslwLBImLwMwVpjw8aSrd7= zB6i_cM3k/edit?usp=3Dsharing >>=20 >> -Greg >>=20 >>> 3. RFC Services Projects >>> - Contracts for Improvements to RFC Services -- Heather and Robert >>> -- CSS for the RFCs >>> -- IDnits >>> -- Publication Formatter >>> -- RFClint >>> -- SVGcheck >>> -- Text Submission >>> -- XMLdiff >>>=20 >>> 4. Server Infrastructure >>> - IESG discussions of DMARC -- Robert and Ben >>> - Migrate toward Django 1.9 and 1.10 -- Henrik >>> - Libraries for HTML of I-Ds -- Henrik >>>=20 >>> 5. Parking Lot >>> - CDN support for HTML and PDF I-Ds -- Henrik >>> - Migrate from MySQL to PostgreSQL -- Henrik >>> - Discontinue MonArch email archives -- Robert >>> - Improve infrastructure for finding and fetching artifacts -- = Robert >>> - Author information for very old I-Ds in the datatracker -- = Robert >>> - Replace I-Ds in proceedings with links to archive copy? >>> - Performance improvements and transition to Postgres -- Henrik >>> - VM Architecture for Servers -- Robert >>> - Submit an I-D directly from GitHub >>> - Move downref registry , and integrate with IETF LC generation >>> - Add view of recent ballots by telechat to >>> - Allow meetecho to associate recordings with sessions as they = become available >>> - Mailman support for internationalized email addresses >>> -- Requires Mailman 3.1, which is expected in early 2017 >>> - Meeting registration support for internationalized email = addresses >>> -- Mailman must be done first; user is added to meeting mail = lists >>>=20 >>> 6. AOB >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Thu Jan 12 00:41:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B744E12943B for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 00:41:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f6-FR3A7nBpa for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 00:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4431412896F for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 00:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C5EA2CEBB for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:41:30 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6sCIH6SwtvU for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:41:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5212CCAF for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:41:29 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E14B5517-DC87-44EE-9CE1-FA4BEE54A467"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:41:28 +0200 Message-Id: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> References: To: IETF Tools Development X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:41:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E14B5517-DC87-44EE-9CE1-FA4BEE54A467 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 I shared the request for more people to join the code sprints, and Mark = Nottingham asked "So, when are tools going to GitHub?=94 Thoughts? Jari --Apple-Mail=_E14B5517-DC87-44EE-9CE1-FA4BEE54A467 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYd0E5AAoJEM80gCTQU46qnCgQAJCYwtf3WGDj3Kf54vE7/oUE Yk0A+AziWf68n7LmS79oRsswoZYA1CceGmGyIDS8sPwt9j9IIym5QttStuZjqptF 2KlATFRdd8f+0EylbxP4wjjyH9ZizbcgtL/vMKOgVw71iGUvd2v1Yl8lsZ1QTELH HNtJzGvi53Ho/zOQgXaqPf2whGdpaIsRH12p1T4YXOygXBFSVZsEN38S0q+C+9FI RHxgmMR0uyi1lZjyKu/NpHcxyAf/6M8mRZ301R6LfQJjqr3xoZYDWmR2UXQ5bh3K xYe0lzrQr2S6RUr7TtVUNXPQk6+jtTwsH0TuSIKCXOZ4lALikEkfBCUq/rwQGh62 imS2/SnkbL0uqX/8i4XlNBDDR/JOYUDCKR+GR6AIErIIMNFGYEY9e49+ry/jrobG L8SP/QJjZxwtMjCw0x1n7sumRfnjhrPOul4NVJpzHPpTvuSUJfGHLT7juGb/r5F7 ZETQ+Gn7fPkrxnxTsaPBeY6xk7/oXMaKoNNk2JMrO6FDM8rpYSyyv5iagVvmYWzA TuTHfGLfa7lQMhbHhYY6aWYKFqLx0NFIC5Ts/WPXSM0Knmz1wjp/BqyMC9Qh2Yux s+zpjWNGAK02uw3jyDKDnIS/8QmYrbOXFv+U1FTDPPDkEy4zJaOK5exoTlR+Mxwr a3YONuXidQ3b+3OwyZrg =rqs2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E14B5517-DC87-44EE-9CE1-FA4BEE54A467-- From nobody Thu Jan 12 06:15:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59DF31296DD for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:15:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UFwwDyS27FDw for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE74C1296D4 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-43-30.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([79.136.43.30]:65410 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cRgAR-0007BG-Su; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:15:52 -0800 To: Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:15:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PpIpLT040TmilhJ1IeMVmOQRAVON6BaJF" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.43.30 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-development@ietf.org, jari.arkko@piuha.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:15:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --PpIpLT040TmilhJ1IeMVmOQRAVON6BaJF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="tnGTQM5FjVww0pkgtVhIU1VgJRGr2VFEp"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development Message-ID: <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> --tnGTQM5FjVww0pkgtVhIU1VgJRGr2VFEp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jari, On 2017-01-12 09:41, Jari Arkko wrote: > I shared the request for more people to join the code sprints, and > Mark Nottingham asked "So, when are tools going to GitHub?=E2=80=9D >=20 > Thoughts? There are no current plans to migrate to GitHub, and personally I'm happier working with subversion than git, for the tools codebases. Git offers some features we haven't felt any need for, and while the git engine and plumbing is more capable than that of subversion, the user commands and the models one needs to understand to do advanced stuff are much more convoluted. For people who restrict themselves to interaction through GitHub, this complexity has been very nicely papered over, and GitHub provides a very easy work-flow to submit patches, through the pull requests. However, the volume work on tools is not done as patches, and I don't see an upside in moving to the git engine as opposed to subversion. Now, that may not be exactly what Mark is after. If what he is after is what GitHub is good at, we might investigate supporting a copy of the subversion repositories on GitHub (but keep the master in our own subversion repository); this might make occasional patch submission easie= r for the people more used to GitHub than raw git or subversion. I have no= idea if that's actually going to be workable, and it probably would take some effort to investigate, trial, and set things up for production. But it's a thought. Best regards, Henrik --tnGTQM5FjVww0pkgtVhIU1VgJRGr2VFEp-- --PpIpLT040TmilhJ1IeMVmOQRAVON6BaJF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYd4+QAAoJEE6bV0uPuxcaD4UP/2+0IBTk1kmmSHTRgB9Z0tVt XQE+TjJpk47QZ7keAU8FQ4i9qQyBjcxOcAeAFgTh8nMCWwLk7AK7Hjx/qhMcolCI H56vuzLhEq6+kuD4DlJoGeyPlp2UDect7BB6B0pUsPyLE/+kATNPeJvO60HnORTl L3oyPe6EWlgOn14NRgAZG+eNg7F+cVAl3QrrOgEYAwA/PzR2GXlqjfQhY2PsUaeo tX39aPjflAmNJoDJijf5ktGkhCMRzVBe/uysPINbcJv5GvSiRgLMMGgbuKkUQsDR AVnpMHliTZw22NZoXdWr9hd+qBoKVYalKIQwlplj+h8usEO3N/t6XqOGirRnk0U5 Ce/qfMgGITv2HNMQWOkmEgDp0BRucnGwYIe3XHamlLYBKA5bZx7XwXR0BMzmVxe2 WTF4C+43dadlKEgob5nQH4/1NnQ1ozDa8OJFykZVsX7Fk0qYN72C5QvDjRRCkBe1 oY1ffDHX06FFnlwaFLj9ug6PaV61vMd3JPvFbIonJLkeqqzXIGwqGHbUOhsjewNF vId42s5oC1kua9DH0Bo3ZJ2jhOGXSz7hJyiQZD11gsk2sK6KncSoRp5aYDu/jC8q YZ9y8BDA9gHcHwDxvxF+9TYJWo3pcgGjiSy6z9U0ydUhSscePsbcgknNApmMCVN1 3zd5rh0gn6/C5L7Y00QH =FK1P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PpIpLT040TmilhJ1IeMVmOQRAVON6BaJF-- From nobody Thu Jan 12 06:24:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D33A1296DD for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:24:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.756 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.756 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 165xQyBGWyZe for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:24:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB61A12948E for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.197] ([5.10.171.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LZiQy-1ct5bk3nKe-00lUdx; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:23:41 +0100 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:23:40 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:kbbUvU/Io8iNoxFg969lfBy4S6G/SDs+TsOLlR8twTYosMCi2PA GEtTTiUB2RVtfdCig2G+sDwBrdDvXLegP3lIsSDuR/9A87/c5OQMo/8jYS++1sQQx1NTavP PBKs/YueBz2geZ+p5+eiVDDYTSVP1LltLqbkJ4rZ63i5VyraNQhH9g7vCcIkaw5Z4UZ6Kk2 qSrm4Nf08PuhE2hiVJ3SA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:76/OUGppeRo=:xz3Sqq/Gu8oARQlmEeq5H+ QkxO8p6q2vrNnzC4f+KblAuzlspjFelJPAgFRQMgIQ8mV4I1C6OSzqnW1GrFRhBuiU2DKVswh JBxuVYw+AR6JnmWJQKPDZnzT24xBhGLP8bWYvLfUiMZeziehE6gQ1wm3gFQ+K/HoY6L7XowLI t4JF2bDQE+17mr2+/+Qn8qPDSVWYtP6ZQAqCLOvZVx4fy4SzbDJk/iQXsLe6xnXLVIRVsrcoc MEcn5i49jy1oZ3bF/xJsiacU9pHzkJmfqGbBpz0eZ/UOfVtEpKz0CNIRrvA6TpNmkgcVDDvE8 PU3ta8MKQ+AAgSvj08aNF8uWHre32zjt8DwW2eWal4hfwv0Woq80yzwlyoUFClLLTOMCk+5t7 WOmzzrijGxyCS5HO/LBUWdN/n2l2DApIUV7GTDFmvMAtFAt0guk8K6237FscxKftZEiJhx2xP AITNfme0csvOv2YxLpOA69XD0pdoe/ASSXhlFt/0tVgwSch6OnPDUiePTIHnAXRDiL0mOMNPH 7b8I3mt3XPLd3xXwA9wst2NB6VIBqUl8RWv3w1d2fntDjhblANkqHZ3jC1fiE6ag2HscpfR08 hsUK3L19g8zN72RWltCpvoyrSHbqpWbmZggoWL5JjpOsK591Dr6QcdCVqMDmAG5lOO+duh6qK rEPirjCP1Tps6d+ML8S6nPbkqha3hIzmVWwJKW3rnoKZJPwzeMHUHiMXh+mHLq4j8hZdAFZMw 7hmaJKWsBCmiQzijxcaVpMpDqo+l/BhCbwig6HwHzD4pb2jNM+M+YwE4uAMrmTWt/QGyyf9eV Gqft9F29XLxeQ6gHMJVNS/qUL2NnOxUhoV+ERtLufIaiQdS152M/cEvpcxJGDJrCjOD/h6fED Sw3duePrpgwQ4MH3I7CTlvzl9Jgh7NqYfLCp1P1/5Ib+zdSsd922ecMlSjocHHAZeZC0N5zrM 9ldJiKgjPcoABQTxrR0tNnjvYh+seKrPgkSzlD7hm5TqQCNCJQmI/2Ld1UZsrgrIKWmk3sZpK MBsnwxtOk55ADrIL0p/d0YtN0L0U9ZhVV9QLibVz6X9+g1hvO0nmqE2BdcJlPzUotQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:24:06 -0000 On 2017-01-12 15:15, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > ... > Now, that may not be exactly what Mark is after. If what he is after > is what GitHub is good at, we might investigate supporting a copy of > the subversion repositories on GitHub (but keep the master in our own > subversion repository); this might make occasional patch submission easier > for the people more used to GitHub than raw git or subversion. I have no > idea if that's actually going to be workable, and it probably would take > some effort to investigate, trial, and set things up for production. > But it's a thought. > ... This is what many Apache projects do - they live in SVN, but have a mirror on github... Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Jan 12 06:36:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80FE129417 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:36:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id svKWm7uqLBXS for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E26481293F0 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AEB12CEBB; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:36:11 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S2u6lwtk4UNo; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:36:10 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F492CCAF; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:36:10 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_356B1D42-AA98-4ED6-AB73-EF57B25E8702"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:36:10 +0200 Message-Id: <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:36:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_356B1D42-AA98-4ED6-AB73-EF57B25E8702 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks Julian and Henrik. Before we embark to the mission of making mirrors, we should probably = understand what Mark was thinking of, and what him and other people = might be needing. It isn=92t clear to me either, I just copied the = message here. We could be talking about git being more familiar tool for = some people, we could be talking about easier way to make bug fixes, or = a number of other things. Jari --Apple-Mail=_356B1D42-AA98-4ED6-AB73-EF57B25E8702 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYd5RaAAoJEM80gCTQU46qcXsQALMCSYIlYcef7VZA6OW/wqWC afMa5/EwbqgHrMjs6p0qbBNQGZ2njWn5DGC6RjROmYkdxXhwFlJCvxvs3M7ZCvQl 5H1ZjnV7Oz30YbTMVUXAhgsYklZHVCzEzbDzgT+Ir9lRAksCeYe8MQ5g1x98YsLn GzI35yFc5STi45yjM3UZSJHjgEtCtFwlUe9MuEu2fEZga6+3HolpuxYXhYkI63zr 0SzBSBLIWv9R+YgCBS81XUpBuWZ9qZEu2q9P3TUDBcn8lWv72JUmGRZzlyY1Krum YMk0suhdxFnJ6Y+SZPD4r6JNEaMaiK8f3sws2GtOf3Se6vEo0ClL2A7VZAMSvF2m jTFtH/V2J1knBV5imSwnzmuFQY5GV9uply2GcBlsF/00soZTaJIrRRXu7Ue6cqxL utByT5n5+HHE789aO6CdXXiYl1aLVUzKneQirl9aaaT06qDUg5h4vR2ZkxdAJZKj Y3Pkk2kGyZKjpalVmrUKE2CC9+BXilfMd1CKPMbf0QWQSuI/a2axV/OnmqmdixnH TeZlKQZpaZxLJI2slc+gf8C0Za+xVKev499MB3/rhWdXfPhLjXr25saOpwvQDWIQ GrWOu4ryZupAuY3LSx9UGbxMSiGH5b1PPzEet6fOLT4QqnPqYOdumVgeE5Qk39ec ++WG8gqBEEfgbs7+uuqF =NWb7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_356B1D42-AA98-4ED6-AB73-EF57B25E8702-- From nobody Thu Jan 12 06:41:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA7A129457 for ; 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Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:41:26 -0700 To: Julian Reschke , Henrik Levkowetz , Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <782da1ab-a4f6-a6aa-a4f4-39f9ddba8286@labn.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 09:41:13 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cRgZA-00049u-Sh X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:40748 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 4 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:41:34 -0000 Julian, How do they handle pull requests? Lou PS After much pain, I see real advantages with git over svn. It really facilitates multiple contributors... On 1/12/2017 9:23 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-01-12 15:15, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> ... >> Now, that may not be exactly what Mark is after. If what he is after >> is what GitHub is good at, we might investigate supporting a copy of >> the subversion repositories on GitHub (but keep the master in our own >> subversion repository); this might make occasional patch submission easier >> for the people more used to GitHub than raw git or subversion. I have no >> idea if that's actually going to be workable, and it probably would take >> some effort to investigate, trial, and set things up for production. >> But it's a thought. >> ... > This is what many Apache projects do - they live in SVN, but have a > mirror on github... > > Best regards, Julian > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > From nobody Thu Jan 12 06:59:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74C6129453 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:59:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.256 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.256 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id APhzVvr_mbfJ for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C832A12943C for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 06:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.197] ([5.10.171.186]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MZOan-1cAynw2PGP-00LGal; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:59:01 +0100 To: Lou Berger , Henrik Levkowetz , Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <782da1ab-a4f6-a6aa-a4f4-39f9ddba8286@labn.net> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <50ac23e2-1d24-f9c2-1fe0-8f3e08699b8f@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:59:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <782da1ab-a4f6-a6aa-a4f4-39f9ddba8286@labn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:C9SwEiy9lIOxKSCr5TbGLFFdeadn2xDpxxsIG4xkaE9Lw7N38zL 86gj5913mqqeNkeCNsBuF+5BNGuSM9RylBMpll7rTKsSa8AT6PTz7zlxPX0Xs5FC4MI3fZy OpEXtzTk8/TYM2hc4YKiV7mdof7MHy3NAnGyLqNoKDUQPNiasGWhplyMTEg/Bx1jvTnwNIA eaMVIbuwO1TXZRPg4aTkw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:zJ14g+ttAeY=:8xRSiJsQqxOrSybizpZkLX m6aOW+JXQ/wkT61pkAPYgqvlDLBMKNa1gkXhwDRcM0KGnlop6cvrSsnTBOn0spatsnPn7Y+T4 Jxou34HZWkuf5H0SR8USRsGjyVYKVXqp1NHDY8/egePrqQb9l02cHhXSyaCFAxJBd3Mwl4pD/ xfpq2eGjNwRhW0OODgLfHFblYAA7h7u7HZFFKUPtK3Y0GJwoNHqdwuVHMPDcJRJ5V/BgF7XDe xRF7hP6s6cK0oYDOjba/8MnV/mNCrUlVqZx812f2v0KxrDaEEbnKxssLR/DHfQ6E9t+D4TO28 +cJ0m+wCaBH4Cdlv4vP18N19eIFxyjX5KP0gAZnCemR/z9mg09b9H2OpTZy3f/nXWzyrq/rgd Rbh05y4Kt++Kw8OaL1ZOSaFCaqigrm7As6NDTGSojB307YICjkR+af2l+opZH3Lp0hh+/rzvS H7+oLfPNLjUx+342cFUZsaCzGbETaEs3ZGC8SIm9HDhZpRJmgFHmyJdL+FlK8kMCzmRaRnj6K 4EMr5Yat1Wnldgo6f3aYQspu+7stfmaThVJBPw2+gu81z6T81Cpw6JRtONCS8zxdoqd2sXRVy dWlulxDHdyM0zENDNqAPl2gjYzwTm4v1eXWfHRNjksSmxl4nr/o4O2OKwdPaDdLUp2cVipmDU PQtOmoKcr61uhZwOfuUR4Dr/ZY90PZN+L4tmP6yCW6fltDo7LdEuCZPexAHbKAFKoSGk4xRGy tXtuAwSokvXWIG0e5AAN1kXrlhueXRkPwxfSvnIlocwyn8Ux+m55uHCo9MQUPUC97Bu6nxqrh lmquFr7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:59:46 -0000 On 2017-01-12 15:41, Lou Berger wrote: > Julian, > > How do they handle pull requests? > ... AFAIU, we don't (in case you expect something automatic) Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Jan 12 07:05:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B212F129480 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:05:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.121 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.121 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fc9inxmFWa4W for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.kivinen.iki.fi (fireball.acr.fi [83.145.195.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6635C12943C for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fireball.acr.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kivinen.iki.fi (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id v0CF4uUo012414 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:04:56 +0200 (EET) Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by fireball.acr.fi (8.15.2/8.14.8/Submit) id v0CF4udM010542; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:04:56 +0200 (EET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:04:56 +0200 From: Tero Kivinen To: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 25.1.1 (x86_64--netbsd) X-Edit-Time: 14 min X-Total-Time: 6 min Archived-At: Cc: Julian Reschke , Henrik Levkowetz , IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:05:04 -0000 Jari Arkko writes: > Before we embark to the mission of making mirrors, we should > probably understand what Mark was thinking of, and what him and > other people might be needing. It isn=E2=80=99t clear to me either, I= just > copied the message here. We could be talking about git being more > familiar tool for some people, we could be talking about easier way > to make bug fixes, or a number of other things.=20 And it is completely unfamiliar with some people, who are much more familiar with old tools... I for example have refused to do anything with git, and will continue doing that... :-) We are not going to be able to pick any tool so that everybody would be familiar with it. When making bug fixes or enhancements to the datatracker etc, the issue is not about the svn or github or whatever, it is the setup which you need to do to test your change. In every single codesprint people usually use first few hours for setting up their system again to be able to run their own code, before they can start making their bug fixes or enhancments. It is getting easier and easier all the time, so we are heading to the good direction, but there is still some issues in that process (copying the database, recovering your mysql password as you forgot what you put there last time you recovered it during last codesprint, importing the database, installing the missing pieces of requirements which are new since last time, editing the local settings, getting copy of the rfcs, drafts, iprs etc). --=20 kivinen@iki.fi From nobody Sun Jan 15 22:38:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E67129428 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:38:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vmXmmqZM9UEu for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1DD126D73 for ; Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508292CD02 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:38:43 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oCITc1tuIUK9 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:38:42 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FAF2CCAF for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:38:42 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5CE692F0-0DB4-4F07-9806-ADE11F81DCD1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:38:47 +0200 Message-Id: <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> To: IETF Tools Development X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 06:38:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5CE692F0-0DB4-4F07-9806-ADE11F81DCD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I got an answer from Mark: > Jari Arkko Mark: can you expand on that a bit? Why, what advantages = you believe it brings, what kind of work model did you have in mind? I'm = not looking for this-version-control-system-is-better-than-the-other one = response, but rather: did you have in mind that the user base is larger = and people are more familiar with GitHub, or that it would be easier to = use in some specific case, or what? >=20 > Mark Nottingham Github has significantly less friction for getting = involved than SVN+trac; everything from the issues system to pull = requests to the repo clone experience is better. The experience of = getting productive with the tools system is friendly to insiders / = "old-timers", and very unfriendly to newcomers -- IMO this is the single = most helpful change you could make. Thoughts? Jari --Apple-Mail=_5CE692F0-0DB4-4F07-9806-ADE11F81DCD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYfGp4AAoJEM80gCTQU46qyAcP/Am/ESocR4EGH74sbyYSEUY4 a0cpJxybtPM93IrhO64krA9c2akgHhhimYAsfturlfzBjyLcmzzh8lyEEE3OSZ/s H8nV1e8+Ndi2BcYP2hJeD5ZUFnInxdgYlfU0/SmjOwutJlu/1Jv/Uvc1Q9/1s2O9 U900d+dQi+e5fZxUEOmX4EzUeTYoOXlBmVkssnnK3uj4qAatSf+zE7U7B1nDkbGb OUSJLBD4LYvLszHFP87c7mvohpXDGjBY1vkr1vE56y6Llpl0U3V5NRqQ4PrddBLY 1/u9b/h/E+KpiMFEVVHknUb/6ZEjG6c1hdrFIOO7vdAuL/yZHGGEyu+Dwk+vG0je yXDb8pmA6lvHX9R6IZ20MYKNDgB9BKTPwZpXg1UgwlyG8C6R3YcB/q54bVg1KsgA 3R2yHOJT548lex7ElBpcfyp7nWdK0EVluQI7GDILWWhrUC4PNCHx37JMexJawcRw RCns3Btsy6R+JDEQPGYN194T5sVXz5jxVifNMzIzkKhAidJ9gdhwskEEJ+dhNCaq mUDlGQaj+nbknJsydG+/mAnhI17gKlXa5C15jT848g8/P0W9Idesk9OlYxCSvkCh BDn/sCwY8ncR6YJTTfxC/pJUpiRcGF8vihcBaOLNDaFwMrSdHRgd1JU8uEWopasD iyu9bVzN0KZ7dGjkwz2m =w6uq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5CE692F0-0DB4-4F07-9806-ADE11F81DCD1-- From nobody Mon Jan 16 01:34:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3ADA12948A for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:34:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WMYNxyjjtEAX for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E4B8129467 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-43-30.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([79.136.43.30]:49465 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cT3gD-0004y5-Qx; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:34:22 -0800 To: Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <587C938F.4010001@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:34:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6JMHJpAFr8ElxRopu4WUb6fD9sbctltAM" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.43.30 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-development@ietf.org, jari.arkko@piuha.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:34:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --6JMHJpAFr8ElxRopu4WUb6fD9sbctltAM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="htSjip3i9KTCQFRtFFeUKv2BNT9lDn9q9"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Jari Arkko , IETF Tools Development Message-ID: <587C938F.4010001@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> --htSjip3i9KTCQFRtFFeUKv2BNT9lDn9q9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2017-01-16 07:38, Jari Arkko wrote: > I got an answer from Mark: >=20 >> Jari Arkko Mark: can you expand on that a bit? Why, what advantages >> you believe it brings, what kind of work model did you have in >> mind? I'm not looking for >> this-version-control-system-is-better-than-the-other one response, >> but rather: did you have in mind that the user base is larger and >> people are more familiar with GitHub, or that it would be easier to >> use in some specific case, or what? >>=20 >> Mark Nottingham Github has significantly less friction for getting >> involved than SVN+trac; everything from the issues system to pull >> requests to the repo clone experience is better. The experience of >> getting productive with the tools system is friendly to insiders / >> "old-timers", and very unfriendly to newcomers -- IMO this is the >> single most helpful change you could make. >=20 > Thoughts? This is pretty much covered by my earlier comment, but to reiterate and expand some: We could probably set things up so that GitHub has a copy of the repo, and add glue to propagate pull requests back to the master svn. Mark is right about the friction for newcomers in getting involved, if they already know GitHub, and don't know svn. If we take the same approach as the Apache projects, newcomers will then be able to suggest patches through pull requests on GitHub. Setting up the repo copy and production glue is a bit of work, I suspect.= One might have a look at what the Apache projects do, but if Julian is right about them not having glue for feeding pull requests back, this is still exploration, design, and coding work. However, please note that in order to actually run the development environment, newcomers will also need to set that up. This used to be a long process, but with the docker images I've made available this should be much easier now, even if it's not a 1-minute thing: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/Docker (That page would have to be updated to describe cloning from GitHub as an alternative to checking out from svn. The repo contents and docker commands would be the same whether the local working copy came from svn or GitHub.) The largest effort, which Mark does not mention, and which does not necessarily come into play for trivial patches, is of course to start getting familiar with the ~200 models/tables and ~75 000 lines of code. Not having to deal with a barrier of unfamiliar tools in order to suggest= a small patch would of course make it easier to start contributing. Best regards, Henrik --htSjip3i9KTCQFRtFFeUKv2BNT9lDn9q9-- --6JMHJpAFr8ElxRopu4WUb6fD9sbctltAM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYfJOWAAoJEE6bV0uPuxcayb4P/jXQli7utdHJ3uljWgUxv2Ak 1eh3X5Ws6WuE8kvG2us9YoHKOL+0lxMLmyulUBXyhTCS5GTOS4ex+UInZmX+FkeP riu/2SqHEKaN3TlaDvu6GsqvzkIcj+fmsjLkB9Yo3Dc2Y6dVQTorT55hGOrngqqW viCmz0PcE8fJdnGtt4w9+zS22hsnqLEORQbpk23vtRDTHlQsdJO78rtbTJ/pcj94 lprgwOEpBmzDp2+K10u5EkwVC/eMElr5ILU7WTUGnYwSqjhRPXx7QVubUhTsN0Ft D93w9ZVPYH/uW+I3JQ0Qlrl0i4jU86znbzWbIMXExrgjNW0kx5xFzASFxIUG5cSZ S8OipYVcI7Wehft4U1K3yvRBGL2FXWNXs7+JwU7bqkYJvmieqSzWFQGBPyJkJCVs jRX98PlUpKzR4moKZpoT8xtxTcF2EXl7sztr2tvgLomU9Ow5lv2dQ3uaGd8nfeK5 n23SObwiZTnxpiKLVc/ouH0he3vVn+XK7xToZEyjX58g4auj8SXEKUwio1zQib0h 00CV7cSpLremT9VLpOdEtwdo7tD0HfN5WsJfTFgfgYmPlwDUoMidpTXggXjmIY9r 5WwbCB+9gfg24XAWZ/CVX/3ZwbhlaAh8GsWqr7FsWxPN6RCnvDcGQKEA8I4YZRwo blnJ9mUJ/EM4uAO+Q7Tj =/a0V -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6JMHJpAFr8ElxRopu4WUb6fD9sbctltAM-- From nobody Mon Jan 16 11:02:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0B6129619 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:02:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w6_ZAZ2xFo6X for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A13F212960A for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:02:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0GJ2lGv061843 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:02:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Jari Arkko" Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:03:06 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 19:02:55 -0000 In my opinion, any group, be it a work group, a team working in the hackathon, or the tools team in the code sprint should use whatever tool chain that team finds productive. Pushing a team to change tools gives the impression of an "official" tool chain, which I think we are trying to avoid. In this particular case, I think the cost of the change would outweigh any benefit. Becoming productive on datatracker work is an intimidating learning curve, but the use of SVN is an extremely minor part of that. Switching to git would require rewriting a lot of automated processes. Ben (who still remembers when subversion was the hot new tool for open source work.) On 16 Jan 2017, at 0:38, Jari Arkko wrote: > I got an answer from Mark: > >> Jari Arkko Mark: can you expand on that a bit? Why, what advantages >> you believe it brings, what kind of work model did you have in mind? >> I'm not looking for >> this-version-control-system-is-better-than-the-other one response, >> but rather: did you have in mind that the user base is larger and >> people are more familiar with GitHub, or that it would be easier to >> use in some specific case, or what? >> >> Mark Nottingham Github has significantly less friction for getting >> involved than SVN+trac; everything from the issues system to pull >> requests to the repo clone experience is better. The experience of >> getting productive with the tools system is friendly to insiders / >> "old-timers", and very unfriendly to newcomers -- IMO this is the >> single most helpful change you could make. > > Thoughts? > > Jari > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Mon Jan 16 11:37:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C4A129641 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:37:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4wve65hwcT7C for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:37:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5DD12963E for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:37:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120ED2CD02; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:37:26 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qqt-pnb8NGss; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:37:25 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7099A2CCAF; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:37:25 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BC29670F-EDD9-4C61-904B-8A4E6C554BB9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:37:23 +0200 Message-Id: <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 19:37:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BC29670F-EDD9-4C61-904B-8A4E6C554BB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Switching is clearly out of question, but whether additional access = would be worthwhile may have been more of a question. (Btw I=92m anyway trying to relay comments than making those myself.) I tend to agree with Ben=92s assessment that SVN/git is a minor part of = the overall learning effort if one is to do tools. I think Mark=92s = point was that there=92d be more potential volunteers with Github = access; we haven=92t really talked whether those people would = materialise as actual tools volunteers though. And there=92s a cost even = with additional access, even if it less than with switching. What say you, team? Am I correct in interpreting that you seem = suspicious of actual net benefits? That=92s a fine answer. Jari --Apple-Mail=_BC29670F-EDD9-4C61-904B-8A4E6C554BB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYfSD0AAoJEM80gCTQU46qsYcP/RXTRMFuGW5l0uxn/BZsComW x5HGHU9tYW/yUWPQlt+K1G6UROWPhb83F9GhC25b6JVeWghyZqUmo0ZJPTiv5QHZ biAFBJnHW1GetbkMMt7K411LiZ1P2QTqlyp6/t1Xv+dDHLjI41rHDVJ766/WfXVR qYu8kC9+BDbfssDL7HbwOMyULpXcRb6rbmjIFGuhNzErq3VKvJQ9VC8cHNow6jSQ 9OEJo0MLfmm8vfUpaW0ksz/BdyELWtGCUBlY4M3Do79E5xmivlCDr/hKiWA+tJb5 42JWb+BiwmDjGL269zb7+OSx4T3pb1CtRtZKlgqOsfRFvqDo41zgGUD14meF2qOr 3nVJfNzccIBRu1nkQH7HjXXkN1DYJYWN5Grz+qAM54MEUgO11H71/2JF7tjfi5qu 1ywKRTTxb8wrDIcUvsd/FHgrLFn++0OUXBR5FisKGjacqePojtQSDu0nE3+c4TYo DANRlSCtJHfH9HHsKxf+RM+VuM/IctkoPELWUSzLWQccqGqdMp+KyTSbKmL46AiD //WDju7Jr4F3mpsx479E5DmCB0CcvyKjCo8i4lTY2V6X45hyLdRrQAM/f5ilZEUr neBf1c4hUYWuYdhpsGW0P0dzvhO34bU7VF/nOsQ0jQRwlfWtsxu5J/46VwHjQUoM CmXk4MRZwckr2cXNee8x =Zya+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BC29670F-EDD9-4C61-904B-8A4E6C554BB9-- From nobody Mon Jan 16 12:41:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852DB12967A for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U11OmJz7U-qy for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0D01126BF6 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBDF81E5669 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tehQ6lHlDMRH for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Heathers-MacBook-Pro.local (c-50-159-75-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [50.159.75.65]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAB861E5663 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) To: tools-development@ietf.org References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> From: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" Message-ID: <761178ee-9956-3ac2-02cd-153c621ee453@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:41:41 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:41:43 -0000 On 1/16/17 11:37 AM, Jari Arkko wrote: > Switching is clearly out of question, but whether additional access would be worthwhile may have been more of a question. > > (Btw I’m anyway trying to relay comments than making those myself.) > > I tend to agree with Ben’s assessment that SVN/git is a minor part of the overall learning effort if one is to do tools. I think Mark’s point was that there’d be more potential volunteers with Github access; we haven’t really talked whether those people would materialise as actual tools volunteers though. And there’s a cost even with additional access, even if it less than with switching. > > What say you, team? Am I correct in interpreting that you seem suspicious of actual net benefits? That’s a fine answer. > Not being a developer, I don't have anything to add re: the merits (or lack thereof) of either system. What I have observed, however, is that this community is very focused on workflow and tools. Even though it's a small part of the learning curve, it's going to loom large in people's minds because, well, it's workflow and tools. If we can get this out of the way, then we remove an attractive nuisance that gives people an excuse not to participate. -Heather From nobody Mon Jan 16 12:59:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37656126BF6 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I-hi44Qg4Kxz for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 03F421294BD for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18481 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jan 2017 20:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw4) (10.0.90.85) by gproxy5.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2017 20:58:52 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw4 with id Z8yo1u0072SSUrH018yrY1; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:58:52 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=JsBi8qIC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=EQ_9RXhmKEFRWIT47MoA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject; bh=Qi7XL5wesF2VEE99okqQ6qmVwP2dGhwSPaHol4Ein4Y=; b=jF6aZDnu61gA3FN3YrnOtI10Fd 4Jda28oQLq+hZU90ij6dO86V/0bHWhBmknvag3/wKp17O8TcAL0/QMDkjELZel0yqbZXpHj7PYexx x+UKP6LD51AmPzR77mZLt9mB9; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:40698 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1cTEMa-0005xq-06; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:58:48 -0700 To: Ben Campbell , Jari Arkko References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <8b544b48-b893-8360-083d-8c4ed2df71e4@labn.net> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 15:58:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cTEMa-0005xq-06 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:40698 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:58:58 -0000 FWIW I bit the bullet and changed over to git about a year ago. I converted over multiple svn repos as well as our automation scripts. (~.5M lines of code, histories going back ~15 years.) The conversion was less painful than I expected and we are definitely seeing benefits (notably branch management, upstream code integration, offline repo access). This said, there certainly is a learning curve and it's easy to get caught up in (i.e. distracted by) some new capabilities that come with git. This experience leads me to feel that converting everything over to git *at some point* is probably worthwhile, but there is real cost to doing so. Perhaps wait until most developers have paid the learning cost on other projects, and start with the shadow repo on github as initial steps. Clearly having an active developer/contributor on the project who is a git advocate is also a prerequisite -- and it seems that none currently fit this bill... Lou On 1/16/2017 2:03 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > In my opinion, any group, be it a work group, a team working in the > hackathon, or the tools team in the code sprint should use whatever tool > chain that team finds productive. Pushing a team to change tools gives > the impression of an "official" tool chain, which I think we are trying > to avoid. > > In this particular case, I think the cost of the change would outweigh > any benefit. Becoming productive on datatracker work is an intimidating > learning curve, but the use of SVN is an extremely minor part of that. > Switching to git would require rewriting a lot of automated processes. > > Ben (who still remembers when subversion was the hot new tool for open > source work.) > > On 16 Jan 2017, at 0:38, Jari Arkko wrote: > >> I got an answer from Mark: >> >>> Jari Arkko Mark: can you expand on that a bit? Why, what advantages >>> you believe it brings, what kind of work model did you have in mind? >>> I'm not looking for >>> this-version-control-system-is-better-than-the-other one response, >>> but rather: did you have in mind that the user base is larger and >>> people are more familiar with GitHub, or that it would be easier to >>> use in some specific case, or what? >>> >>> Mark Nottingham Github has significantly less friction for getting >>> involved than SVN+trac; everything from the issues system to pull >>> requests to the repo clone experience is better. The experience of >>> getting productive with the tools system is friendly to insiders / >>> "old-timers", and very unfriendly to newcomers -- IMO this is the >>> single most helpful change you could make. >> Thoughts? >> >> Jari >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > From nobody Wed Jan 18 11:30:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89610129879 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:30:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id irQjoc9-hBLD for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from zinfandel.tools.ietf.org (zinfandel.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B344129878 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-43-30.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([79.136.43.30]:64823 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by zinfandel.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cTvvw-0008KX-1n; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 11:30:12 -0800 To: Jari Arkko , Ben Campbell References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:30:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="19VWLilVxIFvdwPKCcgVMsQS49SNOIx6m" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.43.30 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: tools-development@ietf.org, ben@nostrum.com, jari.arkko@piuha.net X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on zinfandel.tools.ietf.org) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:30:15 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --19VWLilVxIFvdwPKCcgVMsQS49SNOIx6m Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1QVqbD0lTtHsOblsemmhuj7BjQcXgEtjD"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Jari Arkko , Ben Campbell Cc: IETF Tools Development Message-ID: <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> --1QVqbD0lTtHsOblsemmhuj7BjQcXgEtjD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2017-01-16 20:37, Jari Arkko wrote: > Switching is clearly out of question, but whether additional access > would be worthwhile may have been more of a question. >=20 > (Btw I=E2=80=99m anyway trying to relay comments than making those myse= lf.) >=20 > I tend to agree with Ben=E2=80=99s assessment that SVN/git is a minor p= art of > the overall learning effort if one is to do tools. I think Mark=E2=80=99= s > point was that there=E2=80=99d be more potential volunteers with Github= > access; we haven=E2=80=99t really talked whether those people would > materialise as actual tools volunteers though. And there=E2=80=99s a co= st > even with additional access, even if it less than with switching. >=20 > What say you, team? Am I correct in interpreting that you seem > suspicious of actual net benefits? That=E2=80=99s a fine answer. Mostly yes. I'm not adverse to setting up a GitHub mirror and working on feeding back and merging in pull requests, but I don't see it as a high or even medium priority, given the overall learning effort, as mentioned, and the amount of work I think it would take to do it properly= =2E Best regards, Henrik --1QVqbD0lTtHsOblsemmhuj7BjQcXgEtjD-- --19VWLilVxIFvdwPKCcgVMsQS49SNOIx6m Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYf8I7AAoJEE6bV0uPuxcaBH0P/jT3NgEk+0rhrQFRNpC29G6W GLLkQ1Uy+O4jDzSWX7dFI6QPFW5irtlvo28oIJEFG6NWqkw5vHcLxljqZCirxXEx t0VqtekmqxtoEogDaZsiD5ycEJ2DOPs/iVOaY35zEM5lAecTFpNVjLCTU+aW/QHB fKkyMM4RSwQ+pWf+H5a0M4aMMYvYWnm8ubITEENPYA7emIeHSHoe5qXrzYArlw79 Q9vHMJ2tNF9sMBriG+ZliK+Cbn5nzi1+FbWj/yP0YJHbSbqyFJgMgbkZiAQlE84V j/leagFI5Cm0bI4QY2uRyY2x8QjIzoNuCy0Oh9BN4eGo7f3z+VIj7riOpRzYJgBJ 5Wtvxbj2lPu1OqWeBvfvHfoShTinlb5BM9KPelxQ+6GtiyNjOFGgiWZyRnUttHRF EPRzro1qzl8EXrF5diTTBi/hjQ7RBQmoY7VY4+aZPqogXd0FbUpmA+eQtyce1VO4 hpcoFLKhoeNyDif31PtrO6wiwm34BYCrZ+qDvRlaCU4uuSgp5HzMgWBNPs5iE1Md QUI1A3btV3hDDiw1N1VIi4Vw57YAOmfLckZw90foLI82bXtFeKPZjC7x/bmyQvgL cVUNrmlKVP0Y5SGgYO4IDd2mOw8u6Kb617CXkOxIdPAWA/rcSElGQ3qyonAG4GGu nJ7mY5m+YFSYcSi+Q1hA =J3B1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --19VWLilVxIFvdwPKCcgVMsQS49SNOIx6m-- From nobody Wed Jan 18 12:27:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1D912983F for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:27:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NEc2rBn-oB8M for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:27:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBECE12959B for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 12:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371BD2CD02; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:27:17 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0m5ScxYro-Qt; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:27:16 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74662CCAF; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:27:16 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C34ADD8-1F72-42CC-8E41-640DEC095A0D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 22:27:15 +0200 Message-Id: <8D213BB6-8EA4-4041-B461-2B99978DB81E@piuha.net> References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:27:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C34ADD8-1F72-42CC-8E41-640DEC095A0D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ok. Jari --Apple-Mail=_9C34ADD8-1F72-42CC-8E41-640DEC095A0D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYf8+jAAoJEM80gCTQU46qS7AP/RnkRoZU0T41os1cU/qE2tla 8XSkL2OfsgM4UxkE7jVIpNOxUwGzxmqEtxtLYcFDQqtynUUHq573at2jRVSdRNMi tnxc7iJnpvajex0rWzi6/CNdTurm7fLximpf72rTEhbUHs3M3C3VV7N7ivkrnOFY +QejahEuyaUNyjiETOr0bNJ/6gxHA1Yrxk1MryoyGRkQ2clvLGMCZsvHti31NUxj /08A36dMUqp4kipNRdhR1BPSySKZVG+MglCgNtRKtvHW1wqoT6g/j0mILeYAZdpT h9SLJeGlCJ+GbKmm2MlFsxe9edYOFnZ3TZvUChnG1l5Nore0CDpuX8OknaaXhTfY EIyYRSUbHmkJM+hLCDfo/MOYDAVhtqnRKWzQ+rPAt4nriZqRStIWIluvZCKK6W50 cE5xaW+fC7k007qjDYLxDDJcRW94asnL4dGngB1VWBwpp2kpQ6vgy6P2OPPRxfMG az8hSf/uJtFO2CVZITr3wHMWgUs1aAR8hVeqTXta0vkB2peUUA3UNd/XDZC5MRkJ V9gsb89ct01VUTwCTvQKpz5mh39kd5+Y02Jfs+p90zpqqCf/maLlrCiz+CMzrMhR hpwx1c4JPz82Oo93jPQ2g1qTeDX2cU0Derq57If4qatLnbL+DrdR+faoB1MJpf6j AUDyMVkEqu+Un13ad0F1 =GLJ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9C34ADD8-1F72-42CC-8E41-640DEC095A0D-- From nobody Thu Jan 19 09:34:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65E7129498 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:34:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gZAqnPHkYFYG for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C707E12947D for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FF7130043A for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:24:05 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id h0oEcRsRcxGn for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:24:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04D4D300209; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:24:03 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:23:00 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6D41351E-CED6-4A8E-9063-39A41EE0DF90@piuha.net> <58778F90.5010601@levkowetz.com> <6bb8891b-2930-b94e-8b7b-573827d4e781@gmx.de> <80F2B6F3-E502-480E-9135-BC8DEC90EA9E@piuha.net> <22647.39704.943144.139658@fireball.acr.fi> <8A3116C9-171E-4B20-A375-1CFCEF4F419B@piuha.net> <367FD2C0-8AD8-49DC-AD0B-4B3C077F3A06@piuha.net> <587FC23B.7030001@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz , Jari Arkko X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] svn, github, etc. X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:34:23 -0000 On Jan 18, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Henrik Levkowetz = wrote: >=20 > On 2017-01-16 20:37, Jari Arkko wrote: >> Switching is clearly out of question, but whether additional access >> would be worthwhile may have been more of a question. >>=20 >> (Btw I=92m anyway trying to relay comments than making those myself.) >>=20 >> I tend to agree with Ben=92s assessment that SVN/git is a minor part = of >> the overall learning effort if one is to do tools. I think Mark=92s >> point was that there=92d be more potential volunteers with Github >> access; we haven=92t really talked whether those people would >> materialise as actual tools volunteers though. And there=92s a cost >> even with additional access, even if it less than with switching. >>=20 >> What say you, team? Am I correct in interpreting that you seem >> suspicious of actual net benefits? That=92s a fine answer. >=20 > Mostly yes. I'm not adverse to setting up a GitHub mirror and working > on feeding back and merging in pull requests, but I don't see it as a > high or even medium priority, given the overall learning effort, as > mentioned, and the amount of work I think it would take to do it = properly. It would be great is Mark or one of the other GitHub advocates could = take the lead on that work. Russ From nobody Fri Jan 20 08:38:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0352C12950E for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2017 08:38:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isoc.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwbNsTGmsQeO for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2017 08:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02on0071.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.36.71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4965129436 for ; 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For some time, the IETF has been operating a calendar server to allow the community to keep up to date on the scheduled events of various groups within the IETF / IAOC. The package we were using (CalDav) has been largely abandoned, and is no longer compatible with the current versions of the operating system used on the IETF servers. So, working with Matt Larson at AMS, it has been replaced with WebDav, and this has necessitated changing the URLs for the shared calendars. At this time, several IAOC calendars are being maintained on the server, and are available for subscription. These calendars include: Tools https://www.ietf.org/calendars/iaoc/tools.ics Interested parties can subscribe to the calendar feed(s) of their choice by using the URLs listed above. The exact method of subscribing to a calendar feed varies from client to client. As an example, the following instructions will allow Apple iCal users to subscribe to a calendar feed. 1. From the Calendar File menu, choose "New Calendar Subscription". 2. Enter the URL for the desired calendar in the resulting dialog box. 3. Click Subscribe. 4. In the dialog box that appears, set the desired options for refresh rates, alerts, and the name of the calendar, and click OK. The calendar will appear on your list of calendars, and the items on the calendar will populate onto your calendar display. For iOS users, you can add calendar subscriptions to your mobile device by going to Settings -> Calendar. Then choose Accounts -> Add Account -> Other. Then select 'Add Subscribed Calendar' and provide the URL for the appropriate calendar. From nobody Mon Jan 23 03:57:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D7D1295BB; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 03:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=cjxuKJiK; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=lMYhOuoj Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8VMjmk1cbX2v; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 03:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEEB41270B4; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 03:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02F46207B0; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:57:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:57:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= mesmtp; bh=MPZhtYepm9V7EQ01CH2dsfEQEkc=; b=cjxuKJiKhIlkUOKIa2ogt E+Rw0XgT40HCMleCCXTNzsAJhYQbF1ft8AgjJPBYr9ROQBM15NCqKK9HAhTR8hJs B1zxhh7JV23DWxtWP+qBvwVaLiSHg3vNOQKR3dLhDEBVrKAzZ8oFTJdnKZHMh5Z+ hZvD7AGm6hBl832API6l+o= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=MPZhtYepm9V7EQ01CH2dsfEQE kc=; b=lMYhOuojuuEkJoye1xHKH+jFeN9VjsvYI0kYl96TOYGGmWMKFCwdq0X0O wt+bcuO+u9InCMtQyvxIddo41iSBW35rvc0OhvIWf2ctYuC87zaHQsg/MSVmIt3y 2JlbZHWtxpA1RWvhyfY6t2a+I7aURCfkj+f1VGBg2g1gGsM9x8= X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id C2C3F6ABF4; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 06:57:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Glen , tools-development@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-0238a2e2 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:57:37 +0000 Archived-At: Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] DMARC and configuration of IETF mailing lists X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:57:40 -0000 Dear tools team, The IESG continues to be concerned about the impacts of growing usage of DMARC technology on IETF discussion lists. All choices in front of us, including not taking any action, cause some pain, as we have not been able to identify a perfect approach to mitigate the impacts. The situation is evolving, as email software evolves and new features relating to DMARC also continue to be developed. The IESG believes that we need to be aware of the effects and consider different mitigation approaches. The effects are not necessarily easy to predict based on theoretical analysis, given the wide variety of software and configurations that our participants use, and their personal preferences among important IETF mailing list functions and avoidance of various failure modes. Robert told us that Mailman is due for an upgrade in February. This upgrade would allow IETF to run different IETF mailing lists in different configurations. The IESG would like to perform limited tests on selected lists to determine the impacts of a couple of different possible mitigation configurations. It is important that such an experiment be carefully monitored and that the impacted users be asked about their experiences. There are strong opinions on this matter, but the discussion of this matter has so far involved a small subset of vocal IETFers. What matters more though is the experience of the users as a whole. The two options that IESG would like to test are: From header field rewriting (user@example.com would become an IETF managed forwarding alias, the exact structure is TBD(*)) and message wrapping (encapsulation of original message inside multipart/mixed, with the original message as message/rfc822 attachment + some explanatory text). These workarounds would only apply to email messages from domains that publish DMARC p=reject or p=quarantine policy. Messages from domains that don't publish DMARC policy or have DMARC policy p=none are not affected by this change. In order to figure out which option has less impact on IETF participants, IESG would like to try one of them for a couple of weeks (+ collect feedback), roll back the configuration to the current one, then try the other one (+collect feedback) for a couple of weeks. Each experiment will run on one or more IETF mailing list. In order to achieve this, the IESG would like to do the following: 0) Publish detailed description of how two workarounds are going to work and comparison of their side effects (both positive and negative). 1) Decide with the tools team which mailing lists to use for testing of each option. This will also need to be agreed with managers/working group chairs of the affected mailing lists. 2) Discuss with the tools team what kind of changes (new scripts, reconfiguration, Mailman options) are needed to deploy both of these. Agree on when they can be implemented. Publish the timeline to the wider IETF community. 3) Design with the tools team a detailed plan of what kind of feedback we will be looking for when evaluating results of experimental deployment of each of these options. Notify the IETF community. 4) It might be worth publishing a Wiki page describing how different email clients, email systems can be used or configured to minimize impact of workarounds. Does this look like a reasonable starting plan? Best Regards, Alexey, on behalf of IESG (*) For example, user@example.com would become user@dmarc.ietf.org and any email sent to user@dmarc.ietf.org would be forwarded to user@example.com. We are still discussing with Email experts how forwarding emails might look like. Some possibilites are u=user.example.com@dmarc.ietf.org, user@example.com.dmarc.ietf.org. From nobody Mon Jan 23 08:54:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65251295AD; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 08:54:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id asOgGbypnNOx; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 08:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from durif.tools.ietf.org (durif.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:1900:3001:11::3d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3356612966C; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 08:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from h-43-30.a357.priv.bahnhof.se ([79.136.43.30]:53977 helo=[192.168.1.120]) by durif.tools.ietf.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cVht8-0002Jq-Vo; Mon, 23 Jan 2017 08:54:39 -0800 To: Alexey Melnikov , Glen , tools-development@ietf.org References: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Henrik Levkowetz Message-ID: <58863545.1080506@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 17:54:29 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="SnxwrSHfwuv6aVsC8nXnW0r1hfLHLLaaA" X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 79.136.43.30 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: iesg@ietf.org, tools-development@ietf.org, glen@amsl.com, aamelnikov@fastmail.fm X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on durif.tools.ietf.org) Archived-At: Cc: iesg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] DMARC and configuration of IETF mailing lists X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:54:44 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --SnxwrSHfwuv6aVsC8nXnW0r1hfLHLLaaA Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="dT4SFUc6BlBXWB5gWHqvMcmKEPFEsedek"; protected-headers="v1" From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Alexey Melnikov , Glen , tools-development@ietf.org Cc: iesg@ietf.org Message-ID: <58863545.1080506@levkowetz.com> Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] DMARC and configuration of IETF mailing lists References: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> --dT4SFUc6BlBXWB5gWHqvMcmKEPFEsedek Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alexey, On 2017-01-23 12:57, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Dear tools team, >=20 > The IESG continues to be concerned about the impacts of growing usage o= f > DMARC technology on IETF discussion lists. All choices in front of us, > including not taking any action, cause some pain, as we have not been > able to identify a perfect approach to mitigate the impacts. >=20 > The situation is evolving, as email software evolves and new features > relating to DMARC also continue to be developed. The IESG believes that= > we need to be aware of the effects and consider different mitigation > approaches. The effects are not necessarily easy to predict based on > theoretical analysis, given the wide variety of software and > configurations that our participants use, and their personal preference= s > among important IETF mailing list functions and avoidance of various > failure modes. >=20 > Robert told us that Mailman is due for an upgrade in February. This > upgrade would allow IETF to run different IETF mailing lists in > different configurations. I guess this is coupled with upgrading to OpenSUSE 42.x and gives us Mailman 2.1.18 (or higher) with the DMARC handling options described here: , yes? https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC > The IESG would > like to perform limited tests on selected lists to determine the impact= s > of a couple of different possible mitigation configurations. It is > important that such an experiment be carefully monitored and that the > impacted users be asked about their experiences. There are strong > opinions on this matter, but the discussion of this matter has so far > involved a small subset of vocal IETFers. What matters more though is > the experience of the users as a whole. >=20 > The two options that IESG would like to test are: From header field > rewriting (user@example.com would become an IETF managed forwarding > alias, > the exact structure is TBD(*)) and message wrapping (encapsulation of > original message inside multipart/mixed, with the original message as > message/rfc822 attachment + some explanatory text).=20 > These workarounds would only apply to email messages from domains that > publish DMARC p=3Dreject or p=3Dquarantine policy. Messages from domain= s > that don't publish DMARC policy or have DMARC policy p=3Dnone are not > affected by this change. >=20 > In order to figure out which option has less impact on IETF > participants, IESG would like to try one of them for a couple of weeks > (+ collect feedback), roll back the configuration to the current one, > then try the other one (+collect feedback) for a couple of weeks. > Each experiment will run on one or more IETF mailing list. >=20 > In order to achieve this, the IESG would like to do the following: >=20 > 0) Publish detailed description of how two workarounds are going to wor= k > and comparison of their side effects (both positive and negative). >=20 > 1) Decide with the tools team which mailing lists to use for testing > of each option. This will also need to be agreed with managers/working > group chairs > of the affected mailing lists. >=20 > 2) Discuss with the tools team what kind of changes (new scripts, > reconfiguration, Mailman options) are needed to deploy both of these. > Agree on when they can be implemented. Publish the timeline to the wide= r > IETF community. If the features of Mailman 2.1.18 are insufficient, the start-up time (writing new scripts) will be longer than otherwise. This should maybe be factored into any decision on exactly which options to try out. FWIW, based on what I can read out of the available mailman 2.1 documentation (http://www.list.org/mailman-admin.txt) the From: header field rewriting considered above isn't supported by mailman directly; only replacement of the From: header value with the list address (for p=3Dreject or p=3Dquarantine domains) and placement of the original From:= address in Reply-To:. So it looks as if the rewrite test option _will_ require both new coding and consideration of where in the email pipeline the rewrite (and rewrite reversal) should be done. > 3) Design with the tools team a detailed plan of what kind of feedback > we will be looking for when evaluating results of experimental > deployment > of each of these options. Notify the IETF community. >=20 > 4) It might be worth publishing a Wiki page describing how different > email clients, email systems can be used or configured to minimize > impact of workarounds. >=20 > Does this look like a reasonable starting plan? Assuming that we can use mailman 2.1.18 features to do the rewriting/ wrapping, then yes, as far as I can see. If new code is required, it's still reasonable if the time and resources issue is considered. One more comment below: >=20 > Best Regards, > Alexey, on behalf of IESG >=20 >=20 > (*) For example, user@example.com would become user@dmarc.ietf.org and > any email sent to user@dmarc.ietf.org would be forwarded to > user@example.com. > We are still discussing with Email experts how forwarding emails might > look > like. Some possibilites are u=3Duser.example.com@dmarc.ietf.org, > user@example.com.dmarc.ietf.org. I'm sure the experts will provide a good suggestion. I just note that of= the options above, the 'u=3Duser.example.com@dmarc.ietf.org' variant will= not be able to handle addresses like some.user.name@some.domain.name (multiple dots in either localpart or domain -- which dot corresponds to the at sign when you reverse the address??) well if you expect to do the reversal without using saved state. Best regards, Henrik --dT4SFUc6BlBXWB5gWHqvMcmKEPFEsedek-- --SnxwrSHfwuv6aVsC8nXnW0r1hfLHLLaaA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJYhjVFAAoJEE6bV0uPuxca98cP/Au/wLBmWbytfqu3A5GhMFKB OpqxmZ73SoKP/FLpvCM1KDN3b8KgHGGlf3CR81WpxbQXLaYdTHwXC43ixp/bC1bN gBBdvIsZqFPuJMrAKHCq6FbOHhNGy4kX2JwqWgmR9mN3puFknoPw8eIUN/lcBAHt jKgdfVtw9omOSijH0NxIDMPQ6YKqx2Lta7hIf835rU43uMkmuIiKVUaHllX6KTbV cSech/E8secoG3AZJ3avvzmB62m0v9WUalifDII3RvylhR00yNBu5yYcTnILMLqZ 9y3Ft/wdhqD+n4+ZPCvrinNYKpFGiDURqDh78EnVeKVSEITERPoOA5DOMUeglEd0 EBBqJy0iBLvvKYAr59G5YTw3BeayWio9ho4r5i+jImHYRlxAXHQJ9fdYgqBDicWi KcWqJpPkO48qa2TQEwF8vz/F55L5KbcVlCB5ksd5RyUSH9qjzu2D8mfDd7Vx4RaW EeBqhNmW5GCzwEHgjtb6K2Knqb8O3N+UZADS5hFOaqsvUaH8SCvkElzqbqmLaOQK FOeZkoc16Um/dN8lltUQM1svx2GyAJWveDIWG3K+aOROsMaP13i+cBURMqmnAdqg 7ZHxMog1jZmsTdZkAxNoKkNteJ0za9R+EdwzdWmThbai5lVI5lMl0WUNWRoeNQ+8 rKNz48Hj/EtyPSIsJcyb =Hck4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --SnxwrSHfwuv6aVsC8nXnW0r1hfLHLLaaA-- From nobody Tue Jan 24 11:12:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65EEB129650; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:12:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=SQxqG1eo; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qSQoUNmH Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1iiI7uIhxHW; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD81129646; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 517812078C; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:12:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:12:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=bAcSvxvN43mb0dk OebIpH92Sbi0=; b=SQxqG1eohPFr459rtKFQN3JD/KSftc44wrErvXaSxs91fzd QMxidXWXZVEZzhCFqKJOV8qH/lMJaENLS9j0WV+Awj+hZkpbA6qdgelUzcxERtg7 tZQh9bZv6It6zkgG7DewiU6ddwtftjbmWxyFK7p8/7AgZLvgTWm32YpQPe/o= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=bAcSvxvN43mb0dkOebIpH92Sbi0=; b=qSQoUNmHmShdkbPXNg0P S/HD2psTNwKTxx916xYh87oCqQPRftO8I5gYawSGqfzJNX2O2mWJxK+L/WSlUFRB HHJjhKMg/EkBodqbf6/zBMLolO8UIJpj4tb8MA9EyOAKI8p6zPjycKg67O/zHah3 yTGjnIs0DZvoxr9UTbT+EBE= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: 7lon2qXQXrtD3W7QgUrXhdKfAOFPH0Y/e29bF46YLhVY 1485285168 Received: from [10.239.38.32] (unknown [148.252.129.8]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BA3877E5A0; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:12:48 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13G35) In-Reply-To: <58863545.1080506@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 19:22:55 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1485172657.2382784.856418992.32E67358@webmail.messagingengine.com> <58863545.1080506@levkowetz.com> To: Henrik Levkowetz Archived-At: Cc: iesg@ietf.org, tools-development@ietf.org, Glen Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] DMARC and configuration of IETF mailing lists X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 19:12:52 -0000 Hi Henrik, > On 23 Jan 2017, at 16:54, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >=20 > Hi Alexey, >=20 >> On 2017-01-23 12:57, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> Dear tools team, >>=20 >> The IESG continues to be concerned about the impacts of growing usage of >> DMARC technology on IETF discussion lists. All choices in front of us, >> including not taking any action, cause some pain, as we have not been >> able to identify a perfect approach to mitigate the impacts. >>=20 >> The situation is evolving, as email software evolves and new features >> relating to DMARC also continue to be developed. The IESG believes that >> we need to be aware of the effects and consider different mitigation >> approaches. The effects are not necessarily easy to predict based on >> theoretical analysis, given the wide variety of software and >> configurations that our participants use, and their personal preferences >> among important IETF mailing list functions and avoidance of various >> failure modes. >>=20 >> Robert told us that Mailman is due for an upgrade in February. This >> upgrade would allow IETF to run different IETF mailing lists in >> different configurations. >=20 > I guess this is coupled with upgrading to OpenSUSE 42.x and gives us > Mailman 2.1.18 (or higher) with the DMARC handling options described > here: , yes? I believe so. > https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC >=20 >> The IESG would >> like to perform limited tests on selected lists to determine the impacts >> of a couple of different possible mitigation configurations. It is >> important that such an experiment be carefully monitored and that the >> impacted users be asked about their experiences. There are strong >> opinions on this matter, but the discussion of this matter has so far >> involved a small subset of vocal IETFers. What matters more though is >> the experience of the users as a whole. >>=20 >> The two options that IESG would like to test are: =46rom header field >> rewriting (user@example.com would become an IETF managed forwarding >> alias, >> the exact structure is TBD(*)) and message wrapping (encapsulation of >> original message inside multipart/mixed, with the original message as >> message/rfc822 attachment + some explanatory text).=20 >> These workarounds would only apply to email messages from domains that >> publish DMARC p=3Dreject or p=3Dquarantine policy. Messages from domains >> that don't publish DMARC policy or have DMARC policy p=3Dnone are not >> affected by this change. >>=20 >> In order to figure out which option has less impact on IETF >> participants, IESG would like to try one of them for a couple of weeks >> (+ collect feedback), roll back the configuration to the current one, >> then try the other one (+collect feedback) for a couple of weeks. >> Each experiment will run on one or more IETF mailing list. >>=20 >> In order to achieve this, the IESG would like to do the following: >>=20 >> 0) Publish detailed description of how two workarounds are going to work >> and comparison of their side effects (both positive and negative). >>=20 >> 1) Decide with the tools team which mailing lists to use for testing >> of each option. This will also need to be agreed with managers/working >> group chairs >> of the affected mailing lists. >>=20 >> 2) Discuss with the tools team what kind of changes (new scripts, >> reconfiguration, Mailman options) are needed to deploy both of these. >> Agree on when they can be implemented. Publish the timeline to the wider >> IETF community. >=20 > If the features of Mailman 2.1.18 are insufficient, the start-up time > (writing new scripts) will be longer than otherwise. This should maybe > be factored into any decision on exactly which options to try out. Right. =46rom address rewriting will need some scripting work. John Levine s= aid that he could help (he done a version in Python for his mailing list man= ager, which is not Mailman). > FWIW, based on what I can read out of the available mailman 2.1 > documentation (http://www.list.org/mailman-admin.txt) the From: header > field rewriting considered above isn't supported by mailman directly; > only replacement of the From: header value with the list address (for > p=3Dreject or p=3Dquarantine domains) and placement of the original From: > address in Reply-To:. So it looks as if the rewrite test option _will_ > require both new coding and consideration of where in the email pipeline > the rewrite (and rewrite reversal) should be done. Right. >> 3) Design with the tools team a detailed plan of what kind of feedback >> we will be looking for when evaluating results of experimental >> deployment >> of each of these options. Notify the IETF community. >>=20 >> 4) It might be worth publishing a Wiki page describing how different >> email clients, email systems can be used or configured to minimize >> impact of workarounds. >>=20 >> Does this look like a reasonable starting plan? >=20 > Assuming that we can use mailman 2.1.18 features to do the rewriting/ > wrapping, then yes, as far as I can see. If new code is required, it's > still reasonable if the time and resources issue is considered. >=20 > One more comment below: >=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >> Alexey, on behalf of IESG >>=20 >>=20 >> (*) For example, user@example.com would become user@dmarc.ietf.org and >> any email sent to user@dmarc.ietf.org would be forwarded to >> user@example.com. >> We are still discussing with Email experts how forwarding emails might >> look >> like. Some possibilites are u=3Duser.example.com@dmarc.ietf.org, >> user@example.com.dmarc.ietf.org. >=20 > I'm sure the experts will provide a good suggestion. I just note that of > the options above, the 'u=3Duser.example.com@dmarc.ietf.org' variant will > not be able to handle addresses like some.user.name@some.domain.name > (multiple dots in either localpart or domain -- which dot corresponds to > the at sign when you reverse the address??) well if you expect to do the > reversal without using saved state. Right, this was just from the top of head. I don't think we want to maintain= any state for this. Some kind of encoding scheme would be needed. Possibly r= eplacing @ with %. Best Regards, Alexey= From nobody Wed Jan 25 10:13:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310FE129AC6 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:13:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zq4TJTFArMrh for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0440129AC5 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15741E5662; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:12:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RSTlGYaogJYK; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.128.230] (50-248-196-145-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.248.196.145]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFE9C1E5661; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:12:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Ryan Cross In-Reply-To: <15907540540.2818.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:13:23 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3228ecfe-1926-c338-6083-8d3fb12fe2ce@labn.net> <15907540540.2818.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> To: Lou Berger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Differences in thread view in archives X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 18:13:22 -0000 Hi Lou, This issue should be resolved now. Thanks, Ryan > On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:11 AM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > Thanks ryan. It looks better. >=20 > The "next" navigation is broken at least in mobile view >=20 > 1) go to wg > 2) select thread view > 3) select last message > 4) navigate to message via arrow > Question: is there a reason to being able to select message without = navigating the link? > 5) select thread view at bottom of message > 6) select next at bottom of list >=20 > Result is you end up back on the same page. >=20 > Lou >=20 >=20 > On December 15, 2016 5:47:50 PM Ryan Cross wrote: >=20 >> I identified an issue with some recent messages that were sent to = more then one >> IETF list not being indented properly in the thread view. This = problem has been resolved. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Ryan >>=20 >>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Ryan Cross wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Lou, >>>=20 >>> I would expect the new archive tool to have a thread view more in = line with that >>> displayed in MHonArc. I am not sure why some messages aren=E2=80=99t = being indented but >>> I will investigate. Thank you for reporting this issue. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Ryan >>>=20 >>>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I took a quick look at the thread view in the new archive tool and >>>> am a bit confused at what I'm seeing. I'm comparing: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dnetconf&gbt=3D1&q=3D= netmod+wg >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> and >>>>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/threads.html >>>>=20 >>>> The latter provides threading that is pretty aligned with what = you'd see >>>> in a mailer thread view (and what folks used to see). The former = has >>>> threading for some messages but not others, as an example check out = how >>>> the following shows in both: >>>>=20 >>>> * /Subject/: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] WG adoption poll >>>> draft-nmdsdt-netmod-revised-datastores-00 >>>> * /From/: Andy Bierman > >>>> * /Date/: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:51:50 -0800 >>>>=20 >>>> Is the current view expected behavior and if so can someone explain >>>> what's going on. (If not, where's the right place to open a = ticket?) >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Lou >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Jan 25 10:29:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021E7129AD8 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lMXgeINw1NwG for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy3-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy3-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.30.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CC3FE129ACF for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 6804 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2017 18:29:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO CMOut01) (10.0.90.82) by gproxy3.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2017 18:29:10 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by CMOut01 with id ciV61u0092SSUrH01iV9iu; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:29:09 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=H75InYoi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=zxSm_Xa9miOfAR0hEqEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=dTeMe_UjiPkA:10 a=sIVsILfLpIAA:10 a=jxtvw3No9BYA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zSGP4G9DyLoGE/rk58bgP4SIZREe3oFFHEQV9DY+SH4=; b=Q9Wia57ZieA6xOoZdD2qNl+oyV HNlesHtNmv1AU1mZFJhx6+Cz/a01LhnsC6HOunvYZIN0jzHXWJxKjNWfVo6SWQtrd5ntu8XRPDrXc 9D1YZFIvmifo+Puf4wnjOwrkB; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:52864 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWSJe-0007B4-Cf for tools-development@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:29:07 -0700 To: IETF Tools Development From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:29:00 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWSJe-0007B4-Cf X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:52864 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 15 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 18:29:13 -0000 I don't see any messages since the 22nd in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html is just an hour or two behind... Thanks, Lou From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:04:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776B0129AE3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:04:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fqpz0xo6VH5k for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1E04129AE1 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7DC30044A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:04:06 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id FIFsF_5EfnG3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:04:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-45-101-150.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.45.101.150]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2A6B3300157; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:04:05 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:57:45 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Lou Berger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:04:08 -0000 I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. The messages on the Last Call thread for = draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the = archive. Russ On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: > I don't see any messages since the 22nd in > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dteas&so=3D-date >=20 > while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html > is just an hour or two behind... >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Lou From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:07:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5670129AD8 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:07:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrmwobwJcBQ5 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C60A0129B04 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmgw3 (cmgw4 [10.0.90.84]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F46175FAC for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:07:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw3 with id cj6S1u01k2SSUrH01j6VuD; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:06:29 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=YuCcGeoX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=jGqiy6jZAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=xskcdSivAAAA:8 a=sNFhH4fSPVm3FJOlD8UA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=EH38xv1xwhkA:10 a=1UrHcX4zoTIA:10 a=Yz9wTY_ffGCQnEDHKrcv:22 a=jHrLhlbFqA1ZHZAWynec:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 a=B8SJYIqRPU5_XtF5Z38x:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=fHBpapx8DOje2eaTyYVFTbd4xqyMNHSkFy+Nt9H8uCg=; b=ONu0olz5DznotKdoHqpTUOYqn5 icTu7jOHWEJEw7+oultzjF4yFWa3bTF8FX4VC3obGkBdHb56GWzqFjhng9N/2syR3wqi9W9RBhhYp oNwtcY2iOhYEdiH4YbECkyVaW; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:53816 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWStm-0004Na-LW; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:06:26 -0700 To: Ryan Cross References: <3228ecfe-1926-c338-6083-8d3fb12fe2ce@labn.net> <15907540540.2818.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:06:25 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWStm-0004Na-LW X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:53816 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Differences in thread view in archives X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:07:11 -0000 Ryan, the next problem does indeed appear fixed - thanks. navigation still takes a double tap depending on where you touch/click... Thanks, Lou On 1/25/2017 1:13 PM, Ryan Cross wrote: > Hi Lou, > > This issue should be resolved now. > > Thanks, > Ryan > > >> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:11 AM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >> Thanks ryan. It looks better. >> >> The "next" navigation is broken at least in mobile view >> >> 1) go to wg >> 2) select thread view >> 3) select last message >> 4) navigate to message via arrow >> Question: is there a reason to being able to select message without navigating the link? >> 5) select thread view at bottom of message >> 6) select next at bottom of list >> >> Result is you end up back on the same page. >> >> Lou >> >> >> On December 15, 2016 5:47:50 PM Ryan Cross wrote: >> >>> I identified an issue with some recent messages that were sent to more then one >>> IETF list not being indented properly in the thread view. This problem has been resolved. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ryan >>> >>>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Ryan Cross wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Lou, >>>> >>>> I would expect the new archive tool to have a thread view more in line with that >>>> displayed in MHonArc. I am not sure why some messages aren’t being indented but >>>> I will investigate. Thank you for reporting this issue. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I took a quick look at the thread view in the new archive tool and >>>>> am a bit confused at what I'm seeing. I'm comparing: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=netconf&gbt=1&q=netmod+wg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/threads.html >>>>> >>>>> The latter provides threading that is pretty aligned with what you'd see >>>>> in a mailer thread view (and what folks used to see). The former has >>>>> threading for some messages but not others, as an example check out how >>>>> the following shows in both: >>>>> >>>>> * /Subject/: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] WG adoption poll >>>>> draft-nmdsdt-netmod-revised-datastores-00 >>>>> * /From/: Andy Bierman > >>>>> * /Date/: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:51:50 -0800 >>>>> >>>>> Is the current view expected behavior and if so can someone explain >>>>> what's going on. (If not, where's the right place to open a ticket?) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Lou >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> >> > From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:08:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E96C129B09 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZRnmOZpquxEp for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy4-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.23.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 613FE129AF5 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24696 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2017 19:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw4) (10.0.90.85) by gproxy4.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2017 19:07:57 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw4 with id cj7S1u00Q2SSUrH01j7VhC; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:07:30 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=JsBi8qIC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=akTFqq_j4ohWZR8ZgGgA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=sIVsILfLpIAA:10 a=jxtvw3No9BYA:10 a=Yz9wTY_ffGCQnEDHKrcv:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IM8oA0aSfgNl81IjRmJHZXV2ni8uwGCSmaeNM33uC1c=; b=qVo0bP0LdF6D+H3gHNsCypjeAP tNSqmkOoZgcRVuO/vCvMGWjFY8kE50SUZyt87k0I9YHWW2thba94bQAT4ybb282rV4s0KiDlaOWTH yR+cGYMkBtyExuzVh9wLVOy6/; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:53842 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWSuj-0004ab-UN; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:07:26 -0700 To: Russ Housley References: From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <78919756-ae71-d74b-45c3-00e60f473a78@labn.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:07:24 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWSuj-0004ab-UN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:53842 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 4 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:08:09 -0000 On 1/25/2017 1:57 PM, Russ Housley wrote: > I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. That's why I gave both links :-) Lou > The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. > > Russ > > > On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: > >> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >> >> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >> is just an hour or two behind... >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou > From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:09:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530E4129AF7 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:09:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gSJnQNpBRZVf for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B256129AF8 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F3731E565E for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com (mail-io0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12AAE1E5662 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id v96so21456279ioi.0 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:09:02 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJPqaF9exhrVE5qsit9O0KRmnSv/wfQljD3xBORees5+2tdRLw1hZxh+XimETehPYvBMSvH6MMHZIW3IQ== X-Received: by 10.107.18.230 with SMTP id 99mr32845434ios.45.1485371341309; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:09:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.14.197 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Glen Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:08:40 -0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: glen@amsl.com List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:09:04 -0000 This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already working on this. He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, which should take about 60 minutes. The archives should be back online once that's done. Glen On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley wrote: > I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. > > The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. > > Russ > > > On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: > >> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >> >> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >> is just an hour or two behind... >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:16:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE99129AF9 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:16:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3Lny3fbNppg for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 961DA129AF1 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from unnumerable.local ([47.186.22.210]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0PJGMJQ047156 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:16:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.22.210] claimed to be unnumerable.local To: tools-development@ietf.org References: From: Robert Sparks Message-ID: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:16:22 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:16:26 -0000 Thanks Glen (and Ryan). After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we can do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? RjS On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: > This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already > working on this. > > He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, > which should take about 60 minutes. > > The archives should be back online once that's done. > > Glen > > > On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >> >> The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. >> >> Russ >> >> >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>> >>> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>> is just an hour or two behind... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Lou >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:21:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364DC129B2D for ; 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bh=8ZmhFU267orRRFDvvYgLjFBGYDiW4sLpMYycuFKuPjc=; b=SarL0XxroT0CBu2f+UgiEnHqwS c6YUUkCVbJykxOPWyFfe07ih0K0tnNSHMz2Jh281P/uDIMD4wbJLE6RDJMJbKPxwkyJgODwc0XTqP zFy4qwMXfFC3Acrrhm0wF3Wvg; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:54078 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWT7t-0006ON-0O; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:21:01 -0700 To: Robert Sparks , tools-development@ietf.org References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:20:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWT7t-0006ON-0O X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:54078 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 6 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:21:49 -0000 Thanks. mailarchive looks good -- now https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html seems stuck... On 1/25/2017 2:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > Thanks Glen (and Ryan). > > After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you > have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we can > do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? > > RjS > > > On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already >> working on this. >> >> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >> which should take about 60 minutes. >> >> The archives should be back online once that's done. >> >> Glen >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>> >>> The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. >>> >>> Russ >>> >>> >>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>> >>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>> >>>> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Lou >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:28:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207C4129B07 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UaOaP4YJ0JHF for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA8D1129B39 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE891E5662; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpqSddDrA39C; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.6] (50-89-234-39.res.bhn.net [50.89.234.39]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 629CC1E565A; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:28:11 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Matt Larson In-Reply-To: <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:28:55 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <042CF4EF-6C2F-474D-9388-7A6CD3B584B2@amsl.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> To: Lou Berger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:28:58 -0000 Hi Lou, Bear in mind that while the mail archive tool works in real time, the = MhonArc tool that builds the html archive pages runs periodically, and = so it may lag by up to 30 minutes. Matt > On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > Thanks. mailarchive looks good -- now > https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html seems > stuck... >=20 >=20 > On 1/25/2017 2:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>=20 >> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you=20= >> have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we = can=20 >> do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? >>=20 >> RjS >>=20 >>=20 >> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is = already >>> working on this. >>>=20 >>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>=20 >>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>=20 >>> Glen >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley = wrote: >>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>=20 >>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for = draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the = archive. >>>>=20 >>>> Russ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dteas&so=3D-da= te >>>>>=20 >>>>> while = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Lou >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >=20 ------------------------------------------- Matthew Larson, Software Engineer Association Management Solutions Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning 5177 Brandin Court Fremont, CA 94538 From nobody Wed Jan 25 11:55:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984F1129B31 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:55:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9zJF2veWCCOW for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [70.40.196.235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7D643129B6A for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3431 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 2017 19:49:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw3) (10.0.90.84) by gproxy7.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2017 19:49:25 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw3 with id cjpM1u00Y2SSUrH01jpQxg; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:49:25 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=YuCcGeoX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=tGX7uwomAAAA:8 a=PVZOmgld0FM9tJ_xaC4A:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=sIVsILfLpIAA:10 a=jxtvw3No9BYA:10 a=Yz9wTY_ffGCQnEDHKrcv:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 a=ZFOOzkjxzLGrPE5HuMia:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=w77gO8sWeOg79cGVQTK5HP1tK2BYRnqvkPqZ8yn8Qjo=; b=PGzon+y6fA5U5xyg7OwjarbUlr XcZ8kO8XaEKhifLGeBrGSGIaeHYVyDijQNgaZXxkZeiYnqyRywgh0v4lpL+0CIKoezaewEoO8LONW KhScWkVpoWE4y/BvvWzllvgKD; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:54952 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWTZJ-0002AR-5H; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:49:21 -0700 To: Matt Larson References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> <042CF4EF-6C2F-474D-9388-7A6CD3B584B2@amsl.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 14:49:18 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <042CF4EF-6C2F-474D-9388-7A6CD3B584B2@amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWTZJ-0002AR-5H X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:54952 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 12 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 19:55:16 -0000 understood - it is hours behind at this point... On 1/25/2017 2:28 PM, Matt Larson wrote: > Hi Lou, > > Bear in mind that while the mail archive tool works in real time, the MhonArc tool that builds the html archive pages runs periodically, and so it may lag by up to 30 minutes. > > Matt > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >> Thanks. mailarchive looks good -- now >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html seems >> stuck... >> >> >> On 1/25/2017 2:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>> >>> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you >>> have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we can >>> do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? >>> >>> RjS >>> >>> >>> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already >>>> working on this. >>>> >>>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>> >>>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>> >>>> Glen >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >>>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>> >>>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. >>>>> >>>>> Russ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>>>> >>>>>> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Lou >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> > ------------------------------------------- > Matthew Larson, Software Engineer > Association Management Solutions > Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning > 5177 Brandin Court > Fremont, CA 94538 > > From nobody Wed Jan 25 12:31:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE05129BC9 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:31:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0LnXHlTOSs61 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5354D129BBE for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1995D1E5665; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x6PM76uqjxwi; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.6] (50-89-234-39.res.bhn.net [50.89.234.39]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9141C1E5661; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:30:15 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Matt Larson In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 15:31:00 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <18D4381F-7949-4699-A7DD-C216015E6A50@amsl.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> <042CF4EF-6C2F-474D-9388-7A6CD3B584B2@amsl.com> To: Lou Berger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:31:12 -0000 Hi! I just checked the mailarchive tool version and the MhonArc version, as = as of the last MhonArc run (at 12:20 Pacific), the archives are in sync. Part of the lag may have been from the CDN cacheing the old html page. = I've modified our settings to prevent cacheing of pages in the = mail-archive/web/ tree to remove another potential source of latency. Matt > On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:49 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > understood - it is hours behind at this point... >=20 >=20 > On 1/25/2017 2:28 PM, Matt Larson wrote: >> Hi Lou, >>=20 >> Bear in mind that while the mail archive tool works in real time, the = MhonArc tool that builds the html archive pages runs periodically, and = so it may lag by up to 30 minutes. >>=20 >> Matt >>=20 >>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>=20 >>> Thanks. mailarchive looks good -- now >>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html = seems >>> stuck... >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 1/25/2017 2:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>>> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>>>=20 >>>> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if = you=20 >>>> have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we = can=20 >>>> do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going = forward? >>>>=20 >>>> RjS >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>>>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is = already >>>>> working on this. >>>>>=20 >>>>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>>>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Glen >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley = wrote: >>>>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for = draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the = archive. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Russ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>>>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dteas&so=3D-date >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> while = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>=20 >> ------------------------------------------- >> Matthew Larson, Software Engineer >> Association Management Solutions >> Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning >> 5177 Brandin Court >> Fremont, CA 94538 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 ------------------------------------------- Matthew Larson, Software Engineer Association Management Solutions Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning 5177 Brandin Court Fremont, CA 94538 From nobody Wed Jan 25 12:45:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CCD129BDE for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:45:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RjmmQmh-kpL8 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 091C8129BD4 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CB31E5662; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:44:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPdcq_Z8xl1O; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.128.230] (50-248-196-145-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.248.196.145]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8853E1E5661; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:44:51 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Ryan Cross In-Reply-To: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:45:36 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7F362522-ADA3-4815-AE9D-ACB2674993E1@amsl.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:45:47 -0000 Here is a quick summary of the issue. Mail Archive indexing began failing Jan 22 03:00 PST, when the index = task queue started using the wrong version of Django. This problem has = been rectified. About 1400 messages are queued to be indexed now. This = should be complete by 4pm PST. We are looking into ways to detect = indexing failures to prevent this from happening in the future. Ryan > On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Robert Sparks = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >=20 > After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you = have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we can = do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? >=20 > RjS >=20 >=20 > On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already >> working on this. >>=20 >> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >> which should take about 60 minutes. >>=20 >> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>=20 >> Glen >>=20 >>=20 >> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley = wrote: >>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>=20 >>> The messages on the Last Call thread for = draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the = archive. >>>=20 >>> Russ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>=20 >>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dteas&so=3D-dat= e >>>>=20 >>>> while = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Lou >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Wed Jan 25 12:53:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939BA129BE1 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:53:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.156, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dk3963l3DtC3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97918129BE3 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cmgw2 (cmgw3 [10.0.90.83]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E7E117883D for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw2 with id cknM1u0132SSUrH01knQLn; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:47:25 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=ZINExxLb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=IgFoBzBjUZAA:10 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=tGX7uwomAAAA:8 a=DLMzWknLoaPYZ-8cc-UA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=sIVsILfLpIAA:10 a=jxtvw3No9BYA:10 a=Yz9wTY_ffGCQnEDHKrcv:22 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 a=ZFOOzkjxzLGrPE5HuMia:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Yuoe6BA26h4WN+9a9OdKbEN0dUb/13OeG7zeBTdGx0c=; b=vjCWaR+UCUw/Ju1V6A97EoKzAT GPmRWOG9JdJYo1GTrhDFB77bVztZCnZcENO4J7eMf0uSak9l5yQMrV4DaPMzUkAc9209XGpt+ekGV m/zCz8rvjQ4tSK0AU4Yh4UPhd; Received: from pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.85.191]:56010 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cWUTT-00032k-Cu; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:47:23 -0700 To: Matt Larson References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <1dba79bf-4185-0da7-f687-d24d400a2897@labn.net> <042CF4EF-6C2F-474D-9388-7A6CD3B584B2@amsl.com> <18D4381F-7949-4699-A7DD-C216015E6A50@amsl.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <7212e21e-e0a2-0f53-88a6-09d32fc297a9@labn.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 15:47:21 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <18D4381F-7949-4699-A7DD-C216015E6A50@amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.85.191 X-Exim-ID: 1cWUTT-00032k-Cu X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-85-191.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.85.191]:56010 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Cc: tools-development@ietf.org Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 20:53:25 -0000 Matt, Thanks for checking. On 1/25/2017 3:31 PM, Matt Larson wrote: > Hi! > > I just checked the mailarchive tool version and the MhonArc version, as as of the last MhonArc run (at 12:20 Pacific), the archives are in sync. great. > Part of the lag may have been from the CDN cacheing the old html page. I've modified our settings to prevent cacheing of pages in the mail-archive/web/ tree to remove another potential source of latency. That's believable. Thanks, Lou > Matt > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:49 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >> understood - it is hours behind at this point... >> >> >> On 1/25/2017 2:28 PM, Matt Larson wrote: >>> Hi Lou, >>> >>> Bear in mind that while the mail archive tool works in real time, the MhonArc tool that builds the html archive pages runs periodically, and so it may lag by up to 30 minutes. >>> >>> Matt >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks. mailarchive looks good -- now >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html seems >>>> stuck... >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/25/2017 2:16 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: >>>>> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>>>> >>>>> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you >>>>> have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we can >>>>> do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going forward? >>>>> >>>>> RjS >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>>>>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is already >>>>>> working on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>>>>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>>>> >>>>>> Glen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley wrote: >>>>>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in the archive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Russ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> while https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> Matthew Larson, Software Engineer >>> Association Management Solutions >>> Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning >>> 5177 Brandin Court >>> Fremont, CA 94538 >>> >>> > ------------------------------------------- > Matthew Larson, Software Engineer > Association Management Solutions > Forum Management, Meeting and Event Planning > 5177 Brandin Court > Fremont, CA 94538 > > From nobody Wed Jan 25 13:01:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3CC129BE0 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:01:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rSOM_1dbLnsP for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DBF6129B40 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1181E5662; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:00:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPXVWM_cnscv; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.128.230] (50-248-196-145-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.248.196.145]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D152F1E5661; Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:00:20 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Ryan Cross In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 13:01:05 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <926EA8D7-EEDB-435B-8093-20E23301501B@amsl.com> References: <3228ecfe-1926-c338-6083-8d3fb12fe2ce@labn.net> <15907540540.2818.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> To: Lou Berger X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Differences in thread view in archives X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:01:21 -0000 Hi Lou, In mobile view, the entire subject text should be a clickable link to = navigate to the message details. In desktop view you can navigate by double-clicking = the row or using the arrow icon. Note, this is by design, so that single = clicking the row will load the message content in the preview pane below. Is your = experience=20 different than this? Thanks, Ryan > On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 >=20 > Ryan, > the next problem does indeed appear fixed - thanks.=20 >=20 > navigation still takes a double tap depending on where you = touch/click... >=20 > Thanks, > Lou >=20 > On 1/25/2017 1:13 PM, Ryan Cross wrote: >> Hi Lou, >>=20 >> This issue should be resolved now. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Ryan >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Dec 16, 2016, at 3:11 AM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>=20 >>> Thanks ryan. It looks better. >>>=20 >>> The "next" navigation is broken at least in mobile view >>>=20 >>> 1) go to wg >>> 2) select thread view >>> 3) select last message >>> 4) navigate to message via arrow >>> Question: is there a reason to being able to select message without = navigating the link? >>> 5) select thread view at bottom of message >>> 6) select next at bottom of list >>>=20 >>> Result is you end up back on the same page. >>>=20 >>> Lou >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On December 15, 2016 5:47:50 PM Ryan Cross wrote: >>>=20 >>>> I identified an issue with some recent messages that were sent to = more then one >>>> IETF list not being indented properly in the thread view. This = problem has been resolved. >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, >>>> Ryan >>>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Ryan Cross wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Lou, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I would expect the new archive tool to have a thread view more in = line with that >>>>> displayed in MHonArc. I am not sure why some messages aren=E2=80=99= t being indented but >>>>> I will investigate. Thank you for reporting this issue. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Ryan >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I took a quick look at the thread view in the new archive tool = and >>>>>> am a bit confused at what I'm seeing. I'm comparing: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=3Dnetconf&gbt=3D1&q=3D= netmod+wg >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> and >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/threads.html >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> The latter provides threading that is pretty aligned with what = you'd see >>>>>> in a mailer thread view (and what folks used to see). The former = has >>>>>> threading for some messages but not others, as an example check = out how >>>>>> the following shows in both: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> * /Subject/: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] WG adoption poll >>>>>> draft-nmdsdt-netmod-revised-datastores-00 >>>>>> * /From/: Andy Bierman > >>>>>> * /Date/: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:51:50 -0800 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Is the current view expected behavior and if so can someone = explain >>>>>> what's going on. (If not, where's the right place to open a = ticket?) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Lou >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Mon Jan 30 07:57:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BB41294C1 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:57:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a18flEB5qdVs for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9677A12947B for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0UFuul3008089 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:56:57 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Ryan Cross" , tools-development@ietf.org Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:56:45 -0600 Message-ID: <71EBABF5-C34E-40CD-87A6-21E440002025@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <7F362522-ADA3-4815-AE9D-ACB2674993E1@amsl.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <7F362522-ADA3-4815-AE9D-ACB2674993E1@amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:57:11 -0000 I just noticed a number of messages missing from the MMUSIC mailing list missing from MailArchive. I thought it was a search problem, but they don't show up there, either. (See ticket #2180). Could this be related to the indexing issue? Ben. On 25 Jan 2017, at 14:45, Ryan Cross wrote: > Here is a quick summary of the issue. > > Mail Archive indexing began failing Jan 22 03:00 PST, when the index > task queue started using the wrong version of Django. This problem > has been rectified. About 1400 messages are queued to be indexed now. > This should be complete by 4pm PST. We are looking into ways to > detect indexing failures to prevent this from happening in the future. > > Ryan > >> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Robert Sparks >> wrote: >> >> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >> >> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if you >> have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what we >> can do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going >> forward? >> >> RjS >> >> >> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is >>> already >>> working on this. >>> >>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>> >>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>> >>> Glen >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley >>> wrote: >>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>> >>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for >>>> draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not in >>>> the archive. >>>> >>>> Russ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>>> >>>>> while >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Lou >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Mon Jan 30 07:59:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09ACE129528 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:59:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qYp1k0sk5j0k for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B9BD129518 for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0UFxSbk008315 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:59:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Ryan Cross" , tools-development@ietf.org Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:59:28 -0600 Message-ID: <67E8FA39-1B45-4ED0-AB81-9C7AA424AB98@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <71EBABF5-C34E-40CD-87A6-21E440002025@nostrum.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <7F362522-ADA3-4815-AE9D-ACB2674993E1@amsl.com> <71EBABF5-C34E-40CD-87A6-21E440002025@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:59:45 -0000 Well, I managed to find the alledgedly missing messages with a different search string. So it appears to be a search issue, not a missing message issue. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks! Ben. On 30 Jan 2017, at 9:56, Ben Campbell wrote: > I just noticed a number of messages missing from the MMUSIC mailing > list missing from MailArchive. I thought it was a search problem, but > they don't show up there, either. (See ticket #2180). > > Could this be related to the indexing issue? > > Ben. > > On 25 Jan 2017, at 14:45, Ryan Cross wrote: > >> Here is a quick summary of the issue. >> >> Mail Archive indexing began failing Jan 22 03:00 PST, when the index >> task queue started using the wrong version of Django. This problem >> has been rectified. About 1400 messages are queued to be indexed >> now. This should be complete by 4pm PST. We are looking into ways >> to detect indexing failures to prevent this from happening in the >> future. >> >> Ryan >> >>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Robert Sparks >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>> >>> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if >>> you have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and what >>> we can do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) going >>> forward? >>> >>> RjS >>> >>> >>> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is >>>> already >>>> working on this. >>>> >>>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>> >>>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>> >>>> Glen >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley >>>> wrote: >>>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>> >>>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for >>>>> draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not >>>>> in the archive. >>>>> >>>>> Russ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>>>> >>>>>> while >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Lou >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Mon Jan 30 08:04:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED6112951E for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:04:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BudqMB6wBNJl for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3539212947C for ; Mon, 30 Jan 2017 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v0UG465w008804 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:04:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Ryan Cross" , tools-development@ietf.org Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:04:06 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <67E8FA39-1B45-4ED0-AB81-9C7AA424AB98@nostrum.com> References: <8358a4c5-7bdb-7160-b614-f5b9e99bb4cb@nostrum.com> <7F362522-ADA3-4815-AE9D-ACB2674993E1@amsl.com> <71EBABF5-C34E-40CD-87A6-21E440002025@nostrum.com> <67E8FA39-1B45-4ED0-AB81-9C7AA424AB98@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5319) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Is the mail archive off line X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:04:10 -0000 Also, the messages were from the avt list, not mmusic. Sorry for the further confusion. On 30 Jan 2017, at 9:59, Ben Campbell wrote: > Well, I managed to find the alledgedly missing messages with a > different search string. So it appears to be a search issue, not a > missing message issue. Sorry for the confusion. > > Thanks! > > Ben. > > On 30 Jan 2017, at 9:56, Ben Campbell wrote: > >> I just noticed a number of messages missing from the MMUSIC mailing >> list missing from MailArchive. I thought it was a search problem, but >> they don't show up there, either. (See ticket #2180). >> >> Could this be related to the indexing issue? >> >> Ben. >> >> On 25 Jan 2017, at 14:45, Ryan Cross wrote: >> >>> Here is a quick summary of the issue. >>> >>> Mail Archive indexing began failing Jan 22 03:00 PST, when the index >>> task queue started using the wrong version of Django. This problem >>> has been rectified. About 1400 messages are queued to be indexed >>> now. This should be complete by 4pm PST. We are looking into ways >>> to detect indexing failures to prevent this from happening in the >>> future. >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Robert Sparks >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Glen (and Ryan). >>>> >>>> After the proper indexes are back in place, please let us know if >>>> you have any insight into _why_ the indexing was disrupted, and >>>> what we can do to prevent it (or at least automatically detect it) >>>> going forward? >>>> >>>> RjS >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/25/17 1:08 PM, Glen wrote: >>>>> This is just an indexing problem. No mail was lost. Ryan is >>>>> already >>>>> working on this. >>>>> >>>>> He informs me that a quick fix is needed, followed by a re-index, >>>>> which should take about 60 minutes. >>>>> >>>>> The archives should be back online once that's done. >>>>> >>>>> Glen >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Russ Housley >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I do not know what ought to be on the teas list archive. >>>>>> >>>>>> The messages on the Last Call thread for >>>>>> draft-ietf-lamps-eai-addresses-05 over the past few days are not >>>>>> in the archive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Russ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't see any messages since the 22nd in >>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?email_list=teas&so=-date >>>>>>> >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/teas/current/maillist.html >>>>>>> is just an hour or two behind... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list >>> TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development > > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Tue Jan 31 09:07:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D070129FD5 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:07:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Liw_KRtNSkVr for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 771C9129527 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.168] (76-218-8-128.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v0VH94w4000302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:09:04 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=default; t=1485882544; bh=K3KbAqilovHa81qTj52J/aYYEBBnQB90flD1xWhvjV8=; h=To:Reply-To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=RBgCCDUAgc1FqZk7wGEhN1TnGAVUu8/iKpitLKydn9Hqsnx+UrdxE46pRAbF0gqZN e5WY+6mFBcy7dlLsefkRWBXXPxPo41rtGJ3kppWK5zQIFtbimDtSsioT+RqNw3572t C1Qw9TFC8JcvbwaqDfzPCNoBgsdGB4tNWLkwv53I= To: IETF Tools Development From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking Message-ID: <328bdf90-195c-7995-4fc8-e0eec6f1fd28@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:07:18 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Citing messages in a working group archive X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:07:30 -0000 (No doubt, this is the wrong list to send this query to, but I just spent quite a few minutes looking for some indication, at the IETF site, of a better one and couldn't find it...) G'day. The archive search facility at: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q= Is quite nice. However it does not let me extract a URL that points to a specific message. It is quite common to need to include such a URL, when discussing working group history. So, what am I missing? Thanks. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Tue Jan 31 09:50:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7674112953B for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:50:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.199, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AYFDw5bSzGUd for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E535112951D for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7FF1E566B; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:39:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2CsL53-g8H9v; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2601:602:9c02:e2b0:cc40:4d02:a1b2:1dc1] (unknown [IPv6:2601:602:9c02:e2b0:cc40:4d02:a1b2:1dc1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CC0B1E566A; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:39:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) From: Ryan Cross In-Reply-To: <328bdf90-195c-7995-4fc8-e0eec6f1fd28@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:40:37 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9F5B3609-82F5-4356-9ACA-D45107964D50@amsl.com> References: <328bdf90-195c-7995-4fc8-e0eec6f1fd28@dcrocker.net> To: dcrocker@bbiw.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Citing messages in a working group archive X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:50:16 -0000 Hi Dave, I believe this is the appropriate list for this post. You can obtain the specific message URL by double-clicking on the = message row in the search result list to get to the message detail page. = The URL can then be copied from the browser address bar. It used to be = available from the message preview pane but that was removed with recent = UI changes. We could look at perhaps restoring this functionality. Thanks, Ryan > On Jan 31, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Dave Crocker wrote: >=20 > (No doubt, this is the wrong list to send this query to, but I just = spent quite a few minutes looking for some indication, at the IETF site, = of a better one and couldn't find it...) >=20 >=20 > G'day. >=20 >=20 > The archive search facility at: >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=3D >=20 > Is quite nice. >=20 >=20 > However it does not let me extract a URL that points to a specific = message. >=20 > It is quite common to need to include such a URL, when discussing = working group history. >=20 > So, what am I missing? >=20 >=20 > Thanks. >=20 >=20 > d/ > --=20 >=20 > Dave Crocker > Brandenburg InternetWorking > bbiw.net >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT mailing list > TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-development From nobody Tue Jan 31 09:58:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tools-development@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83401294A5 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:58:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dcrocker.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9qoudQwTkrxT for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BED512948D for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.168] (76-218-8-128.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v0VI0KI1002406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:00:21 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=default; t=1485885621; bh=x5+wqlLj1lyyE0Qe3S6dwUtuBgp37KjnSLIf9j8t1Nc=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:Reply-To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=hpZbaNy91isY58eJlFBF8o5uelGt/mBcxji3BzzXJLPnigCPaB0NnJHVUUvzaiz8F COWDh25zSTzF/o7UYELVAGYEou0Gg7ZNYuZP1Qj1G9LJwlKurwT9iwTx2GRb4vUtcC Sk0PGJeAG65ke+chjqlt8ISB5qANQpX06xtIoicE= To: Ryan Cross References: <328bdf90-195c-7995-4fc8-e0eec6f1fd28@dcrocker.net> <9F5B3609-82F5-4356-9ACA-D45107964D50@amsl.com> From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking Message-ID: <1a8e03c8-6196-aa8c-9373-e01d625d8591@dcrocker.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:58:35 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9F5B3609-82F5-4356-9ACA-D45107964D50@amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: IETF Tools Development Subject: Re: [TOOLS-DEVELOPMENT] Citing messages in a working group archive X-BeenThere: tools-development@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net List-Id: Tools Development list server List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:58:57 -0000 On 1/31/2017 9:40 AM, Ryan Cross wrote: > You can obtain the specific message URL by double-clicking on the > message row in the search result list to get to the message detail > page. The URL can then be copied from the browser address bar. It > used to be available from the message preview pane but that was > removed with recent UI changes. We could look at perhaps restoring > this functionality. Ryan, Oh. Wow. That works! I'm fine with that being the mechanism. The only obvious issue is with a random user being able to know about that. The basic feature is to 'open' a message in a new browser tab. Open Message in New Tab is a feature in Thunderbird, so the model is established. The only question, then, is how to indicate it... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net