From nobody Tue Oct 1 07:36:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6494312082C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 07:36:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0AkbBOe-89_1 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 07:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 160111208CF for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569940551; bh=7M7QiNBSyCGaAnAQo1tfrrkYLlwyjmAk97fdjWDOeQ4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=kV/x7sPd+Mph06gDkQvDZ0czrKTPqNOQA9dBhzFa2mip+Xbj6/hiKeWIy3gBbDKOv Dr6OxxZtBkW9tfJ/R/6FLDA464KpImK7Ib3sL3eL5G3mBT889CzuRUGxiWDNGOr054 03/q0oAmaUr2bN3Fx5mS99ZZnoDVt28G+22QbxAM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.138.94]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MrhUK-1hljD124iC-00nfuI for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 16:35:51 +0200 To: XML Developer List From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <2ac1be9f-28a4-f541-00b2-abc4434e5d95@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:35:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:wzvSD2UBAFPlekELtd+KeGLAYhixA6d286v0T6zXr6NQ3wWyuiZ hDASP53t7LbYfTRk5glrzalGHijmC8LNq2kZwg8SYTfmUw7OM50v4LUWEX9swfh1lS4vc7E qtrf6QHFSQ9r181nsAHf3LiR9KCrKOKXj5xqCWJVsN9TP8NPHxwr3nb8FlTiPpxqWRFQqjf 8kFu6Q7St/rgpYrbL5E2A== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:s31Z1bRGJVQ=:lKDlYFTZb9VKUKYy8Rotu5 CuM4rpgS/P8w/fMqCd9Q0w3jmw2F7M3IlCnay/taHJr1gOxIdLn8mLga5d1IKYR4KYLCjXd/o X9dMBqaGVW480ZQRRIYoczm/6R8S7nstdiSVly5v+9VKJAcz+8ZaUBO9ifRgGSld93y7qicMJ GnKjBjftmU5lR1n/eKamrFImYUrXVlwB9xSqMQ55tFAL0yx1KiXIpsk93FrGYbDAP/Ft56xtI 5E94QxReKgWDezfrzUOHXQEpOQOF1rxa2jCsB2P4DuijqlaiuHQfoUq1CkonVyhasRBp3/dGH 9klzZ4fiscuQRp6q3EEjrvWNELJxGKqycStjfYrNRbas9dT+AQNP44tUTawdGjzTL35WYDd7T NZ15s0JNvxYHWrbTwl39pOQZ3iMMykzixn1VT7V/lyVhmMJK9N/YL+3oPTTTxn3GUAgVZsgA+ +uprkFI3R1SOrX3PIlQs650ukbqbf2Gfp4R0+Rr1vTMKZXV25PvAJZkrUHqveRW4YuNcY2nub 56w7XIVkgJuxvn+Xpp/sE2VnaCRThKjloPW3I6f5k6xXVpoowFNAp2AQa2+8S5nNd5bZUrLrt OTpN0GlDvF154+ZZd4pZ2xO0Y9S6UDzAh5MOIVRN68h2f7BFlyrMIZLaeR9RIoIJZh7Yz3ZRO uHEyCiYQjjO8OEbcB9W3HaiberdChsmccGD6ubHcCsgNmuPwn4aLkRAPnnqs+ZgCfJWWs3E5W sQ55db0uhs42VTCBGfKY6B1UKpjVfbXf7Prbn1suFEseDPoVSE0QftXdfV3FRV+GcKuE5VpHu CW8+wgDmDIfXlm/r/gQu8MaiVA8uBsl1ddG7I7bA5Sz+mo5rQ2ajr3kznqVeLOX2kK1+5x3Wb qMxLwntVLxYkOeMdvoS0R6zSkAk7PQrGfCzS/XoxE4OLKoONalIif8wu0B0NDDenp2EwJAOOw M57bJ6mRjZ3EZk9f9WG/l/xdrQFksFPfFzvYBTdg7AjhX6dPqVk9wB94Xun86kXODiY1zpjsx 9dnl0Aw3tLOlQesN9e+512yxL6bf2iQyQDbdnpjrnSKxeaoE9CGUPZUKKUNElioLkqpfyiMkQ eyy/KDe9YNpBWAA+gtkVftzL8BIB05umUHgQg6qfwWGqqtMSKSEIZt7RT3I08A1p79ZUES3nK D+uYVPq58cUrIG7eFPfuyAgQGQWxD76KHqx1DmpJKJZ+u5dbaSNMFX5KnlEMToQUNIhutrMJa ThzlDA+Xa4ocwySXzb9cD7d5jby2xEMc3/48uq2rpaw6WUg1duIO5QAAyHdE= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] date format weirdness X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 14:36:13 -0000 So, in v3 mode, xml2rfc formats dates different from before, for instance: "3 April 2020" instead of "April 3, 2020". Is there a good reason for that? I see that there's a command line switch (--legacy-date-format) to get the traditional format back, but it only affects the text output, and only the top level section, not the remainder of the boilerplate. I'm not against change, but this really looks like a mess to me. It would be great if we could either leave things the way they have been for ages, or come up with a single format to be used everywhere (and agreed by the relevant parties). And yes, a variant of ISO-8601 would be great. It would also be great if we could avoid having another knob to tune things. It'll either get ignored, or lead to variation where we really don't want it. Best regards, Julian PS: reported as From nobody Tue Oct 1 08:02:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A3112089D for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 08:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Mi9g88dZeaF for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 08:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E1FB1208B4 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 08:01:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569942099; bh=dg6NHyeaKB/UrnsLv4WO1qS+wV6V1ZbFU1VmK6xTX7w=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=fPkJfIzuvFuqg6Ga39yJPRpFrT8d1Zzw3eQ0uunyoZ+RrwYRIA1cThVX42qVDOWMP Vq7Hb9KWcOenMy7ttRKPkdAP70bwdy6nN98FNu4K2a+6oQ8m/z6BTCIFyeoEpDTq3P iSbRy71mI3G8DMYmxyzTfU1Im5nK+oJF6jYZxF6Q= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.138.94]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MtOGU-1i0Wth3Opi-00uoHR for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:01:39 +0200 To: XML Developer List From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 17:01:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ptmbnE5zejjVSTA2J27oSai1kQX0Yjk8hOOpBL1LlSLhJ1Sk3hZ 1AQnoT+v2+Stot9ncl/OhZHCaw7vUrjvPxfaJt0jEMK7kdxa8k6R2u14vV0PN2xoeSZ4HRW VQNEgZYF9KZLsCeDjVNrLaYEHJJfPEn1LrG5xnPxpVhSFCYz6EdlFzvfEwKCBIBnoTAs52r nM/9gC9r27jeJjfnwgqfA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:c/Dij9fQzqk=:GMVURlcwRRTPqXHyVJJxf+ PMzPLnsEgI3jmERw+c5S/QauMnOrFYWTNRU0sS4sFfK7kbE5Rm9JlgpgLikSpkPn0k0ckGtdH BDKME8u3CGQgW+s9hyff5rqsdzAbYq4JhXwY1Alsjxro/xKuYrJRFIC3dGQCVpC2yHzd335Wz xJPpLeSiBVVQnw+O1GBXvBnFwYx6jbo61K0oQFdTOsucePDE1obm2cB7GV3I4Nj/wdBBaIlm0 9xkwQQsgw5vLt8ifEZ3IgvbMefj06/43xjuNd5tVyYTKy5NY8odeclBMizRtA+g70tScy30cR BL0HZLEDpfvfr5x3WnFznlCB2vMFL3FhogaIIcYixfDz0Uq6P3ao9HTzsGY792P25WrFsf4p5 u8QKCgYucD1z8NwCPyGpFtMDTEdXT6gE28okDw10Am91J2K6pTWSX3dgfq7iE4tLkTjD53Hxc L59/+o+XVcT/9ACyrXSaZhzxmD2emKQqykpKqtpbFmDcM/o7dlkqUwxTE1bVLRqPdmjkEpHZJ Cl7Nn8gjFRrXSyR2+p5W8GOgbO/Ewg8dsfuoNEwxF8E1/DJDVUD5S+f3o83nNR3FpVtsip4bL b2QK5tT7Mb+O/vE+due3KNWhJWLXj9Z+z7Rf3jCy+KRlZnmPJN+HRXgk2nikq83ZL7Ieggf0W Hs/liGExloD5PihOgow7/QK/5OPqEJJyUdgUqc9jk/1qHvhU4pQkc/EKHnCq/EptW4DL+APsL AESSGXClSbHjAeXrxyUJF9zV0KQ5D42ukgbnG40VGnTsD6HEFf7Hdy8OWzRx6qelD3P2zeT2C L3LBd6SWDk3uDkrMKjC//7RE4qFpBU+kpkk29Bi0tmkCC6ZK3zTmwvdFUP7Buuk8svptOb9mI Okgqb7byEesY64AQ3uvDqPICkIASWXLu9ide7uguTd3zSZqGSE27xfkh4gqxHP8xGQ0rE1TJe tAZep0bl0W2X75FfkDXPgRKLaE/039MG8rkKXmFvVqtnkDcda3DDnFDPQY3O9wEmHL2YnsjeR csF97jz7ZzghyhHZIzKNZ8JhwVS5bRLi3bqgQ4bY3rwOC2BUSluciWhDVEF/8EnP9OfXWDHgw YyVfIbl2V9+kpIaH/r/Z4KYO8laNbSePxbasgZY6BuA10+NwY0WIvqOF4NjmiHY4USwNch9zK G9qioL2x0PNdsbqSj2GVf9+ssApB2irVKQUq2FPmK12hJ+VJefnq9KUEHE6XjLZCJQv9xRvwT rQsF3HqydAjBjthItMa9EeTdZx+AAR5Oo4271lUi6esefFHqIdmI27UwVLhw= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 15:01:59 -0000 V3: > [Messaging] > Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. F. Reschke, > Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- > httpbis-messaging-05, July 2019, > 99>. V2: > [Messaging] > Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. Reschke, > Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging- > 05 (work in progress), July 2019. Observations: 1) author initials not restricted to one anymore (I'm open to change, but it should be properly documented) 2) "Internet-Draft" is inserted 3) "(work in progress)" is missing 4) A URI on tools.ietf.org is inserted that I'd prefer not to have here. Note: see which suggests: > [SYMBOLIC-TAG] Last name, First initial., Ed. (if applicable) > and First initial. Last name, Ed. (if > applicable), "I-D Title", Work in Progress, > draft-string-NN, Month Year. > > Example: > > [RFC-STYLE] Flanagan, H. and S. Ginoza, "RFC Style Guide", > Work in Progress, draft-flanagan-style-01, > June 2013. Best regards, Julian PS: reported as From nobody Tue Oct 1 13:00:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1248812006E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:00:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2D5xCtQb9FVS for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4344F120059 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5C1203C65; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:59:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id agWKKS5gEFlL; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.198.42.38] (c-71-231-216-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.216.10]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5026203C64; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Heather Flanagan In-Reply-To: <2ac1be9f-28a4-f541-00b2-abc4434e5d95@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:00:05 -0700 Cc: XML Developer List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1422EE7D-D918-472E-A1A3-418619D0D487@rfc-editor.org> References: <2ac1be9f-28a4-f541-00b2-abc4434e5d95@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] date format weirdness X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:00:08 -0000 > On Oct 1, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >=20 > So, >=20 > in v3 mode, xml2rfc formats dates different from before, for instance: >=20 > "3 April 2020" instead of "April 3, 2020". >=20 > Is there a good reason for that? This came out of the discussion back in July, I think. Given all the = other dates in the references (generally Month Year) adding the specific = day at the front (a format commonly used by most of the world, if this = is to be believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country) = seems reasonable.=20 >=20 > I see that there's a command line switch (--legacy-date-format) to get > the traditional format back, but it only affects the text output, and > only the top level section, not the remainder of the boilerplate. I can=E2=80=99t find the details on this one, but I expect that=E2=80=99s = more my inability to sift through all the information instead of the = information not existing. I also suspect that this is an attempt to be = flexible enough to meet all possible use cases.=20 >=20 > I'm not against change, but this really looks like a mess to me. >=20 > It would be great if we could either leave things the way they have = been > for ages, or come up with a single format to be used everywhere (and > agreed by the relevant parties). And yes, a variant of ISO-8601 would = be > great. Agreed. >=20 > It would also be great if we could avoid having another knob to tune > things. It'll either get ignored, or lead to variation where we really > don't want it. I am going to put DMY format in the style guide for referencing I-Ds; = that=E2=80=99s my stake in the ground for now in response to the request = for a specific day for I-D references. If we decide on a universal date = standard across the board, that=E2=80=99s great but it=E2=80=99s going = to take a while to come to consensus on it. -Heather From nobody Tue Oct 1 13:03:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2C2120059 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tEOxKlTsyrBK for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF96B12001E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F04200034; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ZrFa9pH93B4; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.198.42.38] (c-71-231-216-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.216.10]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41C02200032; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Heather Flanagan In-Reply-To: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:03:29 -0700 Cc: XML Developer List Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> References: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:03:33 -0000 > On Oct 1, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >=20 > V3: >=20 >> [Messaging] >> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. F. = Reschke, >> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- >> httpbis-messaging-05, July 2019, >> = > 99>. >=20 > V2: >=20 >> [Messaging] >> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. Reschke, >> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging- >> 05 (work in progress), July 2019. >=20 > Observations: >=20 > 1) author initials not restricted to one anymore (I'm open to change, > but it should be properly documented) That=E2=80=99s been in the draft style guide for a while. "The author's name (initial followed by family name) appears on the first line of the heading. Some variation, such as additional initials or capitalization of family name, is acceptable. Once the author has selected how their name should appear, they should use that display consistently in all of their documents." >=20 > 2) "Internet-Draft" is inserted Yes. >=20 > 3) "(work in progress)" is missing Bug. >=20 > 4) A URI on tools.ietf.org is inserted that I'd prefer not to have = here. Why not? I think having a URI makes a lot of sense. >=20 > Note: see which > suggests: >=20 >> [SYMBOLIC-TAG] Last name, First initial., Ed. (if applicable) >> and First initial. Last name, Ed. (if >> applicable), "I-D Title", Work in Progress, >> draft-string-NN, Month Year. >>=20 >> Example: >>=20 >> [RFC-STYLE] Flanagan, H. and S. Ginoza, "RFC Style Guide", >> Work in Progress, draft-flanagan-style-01, >> June 2013. >=20 >=20 Stay tuned. About to post an updated version. -Heather > Best regards, Julian >=20 > PS: reported as = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > xml2rfc-dev mailing list > xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc-dev >=20 From nobody Tue Oct 1 13:44:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF0712009C for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:44:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uO66Mgn4bI3v for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17568120089 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:44:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569962640; bh=FxlzydXWrQmlTn4LUNWG33g0zpFjFdvaVbUmpLGIRAU=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Ul3WkP/vODTg+GfCMc0VcdE51F2wgOfFJFB0hhTU6QC/j2g0iJa/ALwA5UCs5kN20 uLDhYUAy+DfsNs59rNEzg9wqy7/T3QKxUjeXS0jZwvJciS8ZvbnecQYJ3Rs5kjWb0G R37m1Ju2aAOlrnES050h6y7h4suSpe6PSqQqlW48= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.138.94]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M4s51-1iFgFb1jp1-0021iI; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 22:44:00 +0200 To: Heather Flanagan Cc: XML Developer List References: <2ac1be9f-28a4-f541-00b2-abc4434e5d95@gmx.de> <1422EE7D-D918-472E-A1A3-418619D0D487@rfc-editor.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <169b79f1-f914-05d6-34ae-10c1dcd902d8@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:43:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1422EE7D-D918-472E-A1A3-418619D0D487@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5onUVvwHx9B7dXkqoYvo7B0Ggf4KkTszJMo+MC3yywnY9jvND2y 3G0uiQRLNdHjwQyrFcrjgZ9J0B9Wk5ktpfenuDDCd34ZrL6NcSldJl3PLJYiFHfPCVmNzNf OM430kgs4UIANz80sD5G1DKuqGaBT3itgWBTsTPtlKGoUuYlAp4USRiIz5LEPf8+uwhFLh0 WJgXHON0raf6oTS3atbvg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:AzXlgs226+w=:0AIgoapJfeO7Ba0vOFNN2C ezA4+OJCSSRKTOO9KrOFeWIxzh4tQS8Py15vcGT6iWewOSU/0VtypvRjG4oJ8SlNImy1hSKww a4D+jOmMzFFAtDMBb6gjxPNVJl4+bahgrPG18ViJ0J2VtD/kdTMlLYni6hErS6+PGrs8qkP7v G6DnCVWC0BKhdaPMSmEBcAlocqv9ZZo+MwTHwf8RjHiVJ8S14mC0ReqUNr8iUkMxfpd+58AJT f3/C8+O/eZvPvchgT+cVF+ywPAP9WD+0OGPY9HdJlq+182fw++GCwVT939D/ynunN4Cfmj3n7 /h4ABcwTQAbFr6sVYQrv3ynxe3SwZc+t7pzQPgEEXgKf0x1Ua0zNB/ukiTzVvrAmbGoDTf6hM mowcnyUlV7Vi3vb0YeV14CBD0XtII5KeDmlgkCB6j9eKqr0LqKZwA/jc0B4fEmVYKsPFIpRab AjANApmDmUo5HZ+L6ct6sFWGXENi6wE81E66ooEmBjI6km9LaHe4svRPjnX386QiSU58U5VBb hiYxu6bbTcl4I3lgIfBfaqZs3T6LEQHVakRpLHBoaD8HG18mfreJGjx1U6uughTe45qWk5XLo D2gs1LaRQOCD6j4aeHI1U665lSOI+/Kl4OQ37BNCTFKp2U1ZLPE4biVBNVjxVPvn6Jft5YkOW PNg8jmpLiteLc1ZoU8Tj/ukGJ5KQh99H8TnBNDUgFWJdj7zHnmMR7lErhYj1YkLAlWumGDhT8 oAJPf8yZjWZtPMV65waKazLe8Mk+wdZ8kWB8dPLd3p5R2NNCCOaURPplxixOo02MRjyKDqdnk qaItuFIWm48SDbQ1U3qPrTPzLlXYFVEeSn6WkqgUPRYVRqNW+EaIRprqUf0bc7X+U/Tg8lukm x9X1+29FhRCVns+P18e4nviNOa5F45+RMBgX4aWNpO/F0FpQ2zYV5gxKp7SuyGPdftwft7NY8 psdeLWmT15+KMwr7C1UgNDtZiA8C/w8vvRe2plaDBTNU6rl8PxCsttBuJcfagqTa3cqetF9j/ p0XMvpoztkRWtSbdWDKaOcA42ed59wdhBndAeBlNaXM4HXsociDYOyLFTH6nPaogLihYGUhXV vl0ZBQrGuQfscUuMlpC8saFnkM6l9O1rqdkrfF8WiaBrAtwtZmnBYeMC332lWJvC8BthhQI65 F5Z2PDV5JPDTuamPS7UbYUkeTE0sTFLtrfzaByPw8wHtuee6v7ITK/vgq8GcHvPAIdpQB++WI 2tC/4M3Nwv7/YcHphCYKOwEEdIt9cUNVns7rJ04aGQpkXP5Bz9UpML5o99uU= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] date format weirdness X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:44:10 -0000 On 01.10.2019 22:00, Heather Flanagan wrote: > > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Julian Reschke wrot= e: >> >> So, >> >> in v3 mode, xml2rfc formats dates different from before, for instance: >> >> "3 April 2020" instead of "April 3, 2020". >> >> Is there a good reason for that? > > This came out of the discussion back in July, I think. Given all the oth= er dates in the references (generally Month Year) adding the specific day = at the front (a format commonly used by most of the world, if this is to b= e believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country) seems re= asonable. Again, a change is ok (although I'd prefer just to do ISO-8601). But if you do a change, please coordinate it (internet drafts as opposed to RFCs), and document it somewhere. >> I see that there's a command line switch (--legacy-date-format) to get >> the traditional format back, but it only affects the text output, and >> only the top level section, not the remainder of the boilerplate. > > I can=E2=80=99t find the details on this one, but I expect that=E2=80=99= s more my inability to sift through all the information instead of the inf= ormation not existing. I also suspect that this is an attempt to be flexib= le enough to meet all possible use cases. I'm at a loss how changing the format in one of multiple places addresses a use case :-). >> I'm not against change, but this really looks like a mess to me. >> >> It would be great if we could either leave things the way they have bee= n >> for ages, or come up with a single format to be used everywhere (and >> agreed by the relevant parties). And yes, a variant of ISO-8601 would b= e >> great. > > Agreed. > > >> >> It would also be great if we could avoid having another knob to tune >> things. It'll either get ignored, or lead to variation where we really >> don't want it. > > I am going to put DMY format in the style guide for referencing I-Ds; th= at=E2=80=99s my stake in the ground for now in response to the request for= a specific day for I-D references. If we decide on a universal date stand= ard across the board, that=E2=80=99s great but it=E2=80=99s going to take = a while to come to consensus on it. Well, that's yet another change. The status quo is that in references, the day of month does not appear at all. Do you think anybody would be supposed to use YYYY-MM and YYYY-MM-DD? Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Oct 1 13:52:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A93F12001E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:52:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XDiN6fmdbSZ5 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E503912006F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569963127; bh=c4fptRmXVFh4/xNIzEa6vNVSe8e53RX2iMvpRYZg7N4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=SrwfLlQT8mSSUBTPuCzejZi45nS7TbM2PXyjE/YZSqlXLZksIoPtoNuO6ARMtZWmy d/04qIczoqtnMHBhlbs2DIydrhobGFUYZsuFBx0MVGGIoiaThvmEGjMJZrHzoyJWjd noVwcnU8LHeV1IODZ746OpoYCXTKGsnF5PCELWY0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.138.94]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MHGCu-1iJkhT0cIy-00DEsG; Tue, 01 Oct 2019 22:52:07 +0200 To: Heather Flanagan Cc: XML Developer List References: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:52:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:pQI9avmJyD1EIaWbRq/qGX697G3PL12MJ18F6Z44L3pWQssSEgY t1Xe0brtGfDW6M4LSjC71jeRQRjMWAY3o8ytHfqGwWzBmYWsE4UVMLLVLjcDnL469cS/p9r 9WHgp9qHxog7xc6ai2SwfpI/5Ltxu8ljlTbazs1EujZmVWeRhxWjLe6erYRfWTYAIE4ICMT +cH085biNYT+pV1PBVoMQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:mZvqijyI6KQ=:+e7oDyBB9bkkqOTUAJztGY TazFCIS5/4WBpbWOUzWRpDlrCw0MbBd/dNyePvmw92Id7i4yz5N2VJAJfeGiI7rq2mjaO3eZi 4O40NppTSh29aLmvmAmwDRuPlswpRKx2fSkE6pdjbi604PZir4HMwwoetKHCVzfzRDUyAZNEX rebiVhGHgWgXK1YQvWo3JPaBQAGxZVXT4MF1SU4aRg7z1LhlLF3D9VeXrIQntexicBbO/oulf E1j04nU1InWpGIEJTi064ryz8r2kKgM7eibI4iUSTMYiTCsm9i6JZzBC0F7bSTK1VdysB3pr6 seFROFZSQ+7eiLTJcBblkS0omoSDXCkK+sx0J6Yr7OMoTTSYIEGSU/Fa6bOQhOIdwvhLnbf2j IPKv2c8buNZZkG+0uyFcLM1LbNTUSP7LUEOJa6wNNqyDtWJYC8EZyybW7rZvR9fIDLkU7u2ii 1kqN0yQZXbYgG+Wf+Eyg+LbnZJY0c0e2rusqWxeTQ6UFgSb6oNYcrkOOGHpnqPcdlU7vvLNwZ pBhAZhm4iuM+Jb4BqoMlUeXvEcA5d8mqw3KUJWWZQrZm8ZeYdtIhaIM8TxYJAGeCWJ1lyFBvV Gj+dOpYel3AB/mTNPLgYF6FJ2JRkUkuXJwEbchsZNNN1TYVTYqGKPIOhbRxyYtgRyAs3aQr1D am17lvx42w4MVSRZcaQYzmMdus1Y1cSRBUOibX2IVRD5zwqqSpTssmu2FMdFJaCGvelpQyo8R Au5yvgEpf06ru4w0MgEYIW+ld6rrFicAaqhhnC5YfGsLsjDcE1trU/fPKwoLG6Z3HCF3z2Fkn 2xDqWsrBULq/I6heTZTPzJJmRzZjm/X0c9Ir3xcqQWu33VSsG00zBND+rDVqYkexdppz1t0EK lSmf+71z2jLebFP/9jRhKHbb36vIKWhL9rQqHyi4NTT4iKt2GWps+bcfjdnBSU0e0LQiOh90e ME80WNUwZ1ZPqRfM1vqWVPIr+wIVGISLKHhKmbJaZQPIqBgY+hM+Is+3rgpI0uEIpAQhiYEnY l/z0qWtjXp+DNEyyVG8/BCT8qETL55GXuM7rBppjDOR99AJElJtW//McIbjDrJ+J88vQBuKSN jRHnXXbnIg+G2dZpuQ9oQahqhx08qyXj/nSAQ+6FnqxiTyk+nGSMG0L3PhEsNyEl8i1+1afvP DYhcZx/GWHU29uFjBMygvQRXtZ8cY54WwEH6tLCEVbUC7+d2jTeucf2JqYWpNuXFJxxoFdW+9 E994cK/xalLes9TV4RsNQjQhq+RblDkuermRCSxzanc72N5NVMyzWG2J0m+M= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:52:19 -0000 On 01.10.2019 22:03, Heather Flanagan wrote: > > >> On Oct 1, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Julian Reschke wrot= e: >> >> V3: >> >>> [Messaging] >>> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. F. Reschk= e, >>> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- >>> httpbis-messaging-05, July 2019, >>> >> 99>. >> >> V2: >> >>> [Messaging] >>> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. Reschke, >>> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging- >>> 05 (work in progress), July 2019. >> >> Observations: >> >> 1) author initials not restricted to one anymore (I'm open to change, >> but it should be properly documented) > > That=E2=80=99s been in the draft style guide for a while. > > "The author's name (initial followed by family name) appears on the > first line of the heading. Some variation, such as additional > initials or capitalization of family name, is acceptable. Once the > author has selected how their name should appear, they should use > that display consistently in all of their documents." That's about the front page, not for references. For the latter, the draft style guide says in : > [SYMBOLIC-TAG] Last name, First initial., Ed. (if applicable) and > First initial. Last name, Ed. (if applicable), "I-D Title", Internet > Draft, draft-string-NN, Month Year. Note: "first initial". > .. >> 3) "(work in progress)" is missing > > Bug. Ack. >> 4) A URI on tools.ietf.org is inserted that I'd prefer not to have here= . > > Why not? I think having a URI makes a lot of sense. The style guide doesn't say so. The author didn't provide one. Why is the tool inserting something automatically? Also, why to tools.ietf.org? Are you planning to put that into the style guide? > ... Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Oct 1 13:57:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA2D12006F for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2LH_-hIDBWSB for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 391D412001E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD5C203329; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SPUTNkodBB_r; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.198.42.38] (c-71-231-216-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.216.10]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A4CF203328; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Flanagan Message-Id: <92B28AFE-32B0-4A97-8035-C8933B9DFF0D@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CBC27A3E-1E7C-490E-8211-72A42930F15B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 13:57:13 -0700 In-Reply-To: <169b79f1-f914-05d6-34ae-10c1dcd902d8@gmx.de> Cc: XML Developer List To: Julian Reschke References: <2ac1be9f-28a4-f541-00b2-abc4434e5d95@gmx.de> <1422EE7D-D918-472E-A1A3-418619D0D487@rfc-editor.org> <169b79f1-f914-05d6-34ae-10c1dcd902d8@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] date format weirdness X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 20:57:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CBC27A3E-1E7C-490E-8211-72A42930F15B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >=20 > On 01.10.2019 22:00, Heather Flanagan wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 7:35 AM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >>>=20 >>> So, >>>=20 >>> in v3 mode, xml2rfc formats dates different from before, for = instance: >>>=20 >>> "3 April 2020" instead of "April 3, 2020". >>>=20 >>> Is there a good reason for that? >>=20 >> This came out of the discussion back in July, I think. Given all the = other dates in the references (generally Month Year) adding the specific = day at the front (a format commonly used by most of the world, if this = is to be believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country) = seems reasonable. >=20 > Again, a change is ok (although I'd prefer just to do ISO-8601). But = if > you do a change, please coordinate it (internet drafts as opposed to > RFCs), and document it somewhere. Chickens vs eggs have been challenging, but you=E2=80=99re point is well = taken. >=20 >>> I see that there's a command line switch (--legacy-date-format) to = get >>> the traditional format back, but it only affects the text output, = and >>> only the top level section, not the remainder of the boilerplate. >>=20 >> I can=E2=80=99t find the details on this one, but I expect that=E2=80=99= s more my inability to sift through all the information instead of the = information not existing. I also suspect that this is an attempt to be = flexible enough to meet all possible use cases. >=20 > I'm at a loss how changing the format in one of multiple places > addresses a use case :-). I have seen stranger things, but in this case, I still can=E2=80=99t = find the justification. >=20 >>> I'm not against change, but this really looks like a mess to me. >>>=20 >>> It would be great if we could either leave things the way they have = been >>> for ages, or come up with a single format to be used everywhere (and >>> agreed by the relevant parties). And yes, a variant of ISO-8601 = would be >>> great. >>=20 >> Agreed. >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> It would also be great if we could avoid having another knob to tune >>> things. It'll either get ignored, or lead to variation where we = really >>> don't want it. >>=20 >> I am going to put DMY format in the style guide for referencing I-Ds; = that=E2=80=99s my stake in the ground for now in response to the request = for a specific day for I-D references. If we decide on a universal date = standard across the board, that=E2=80=99s great but it=E2=80=99s going = to take a while to come to consensus on it. >=20 > Well, that's yet another change. The status quo is that in references, > the day of month does not appear at all. >=20 > Do you think anybody would be supposed to use YYYY-MM and YYYY-MM-DD? I don=E2=80=99t know. Let=E2=80=99s ask!=20 /me goes over to rfc-interest -Heather --Apple-Mail=_CBC27A3E-1E7C-490E-8211-72A42930F15B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

On 01.10.2019 22:00, Heather = Flanagan wrote:


On Oct 1, 2019, at 7:35 = AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

So,

in v3 mode, xml2rfc formats = dates different from before, for instance:

"3= April 2020" instead of "April 3, 2020".

Is = there a good reason for that?

This came out of the discussion back in July, I think. Given = all the other dates in the references (generally Month Year) adding the = specific day at the front (a format commonly used by most of the world, = if this is to be believed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country) = seems reasonable.

Again, a change is ok (although I'd prefer just to do = ISO-8601). But if
you do a change, please coordinate it (internet drafts as = opposed to
RFCs), and = document it somewhere.

Chickens vs eggs have been challenging, but = you=E2=80=99re point is well taken.


I = see that there's a command line switch (--legacy-date-format) to get
the traditional format back, but it only affects the text = output, and
only the top level section, not the remainder = of the boilerplate.

I can=E2=80=99= t find the details on this one, but I expect that=E2=80=99s more my = inability to sift through all the information instead of the information = not existing. I also suspect that this is an attempt to be flexible = enough to meet all possible use cases.

I'm at a loss how changing the = format in one of multiple places
addresses a use case :-).


I have seen stranger = things, but in this case, I still can=E2=80=99t find the = justification.


I'm not against change, but this really looks like a mess to = me.

It would be great if we could either = leave things the way they have been
for ages, or come up = with a single format to be used everywhere (and
agreed by = the relevant parties). And yes, a variant of ISO-8601 would be
great.

Agreed.



It would also be great if we could avoid = having another knob to tune
things. It'll either get = ignored, or lead to variation where we really
don't want = it.

I am going to put DMY = format in the style guide for referencing I-Ds; that=E2=80=99s my stake = in the ground for now in response to the request for a specific day for = I-D references. If we decide on a universal date standard across the = board, that=E2=80=99s great but it=E2=80=99s going to take a while to = come to consensus on it.

Well, that's yet another change. = The status quo is that in references,
the day of month does not appear at all.

Do you think anybody would be = supposed to use YYYY-MM and YYYY-MM-DD?

I don=E2=80=99t know. Let=E2=80=99s = ask! 
/me goes over to rfc-interest

-Heather

= --Apple-Mail=_CBC27A3E-1E7C-490E-8211-72A42930F15B-- From nobody Tue Oct 1 14:19:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314031200B8 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e2vA5Yt53Wjg for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C003120089 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEEDE200034; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from c8a.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QZ14DdjOWngT; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.198.42.38] (c-71-231-216-10.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.216.10]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 36C52200032; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Heather Flanagan Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2CEC5F18-6408-4B83-92F3-92DE196E7037" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:19:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: XML Developer List To: Julian Reschke References: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 21:19:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2CEC5F18-6408-4B83-92F3-92DE196E7037 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >=20 > On 01.10.2019 22:03, Heather Flanagan wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 8:01 AM, Julian Reschke = wrote: >>>=20 >>> V3: >>>=20 >>>> [Messaging] >>>> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. F. = Reschke, >>>> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", Internet-Draft, draft-ietf- >>>> httpbis-messaging-05, July 2019, >>>> = >>> 99>. >>>=20 >>> V2: >>>=20 >>>> [Messaging] >>>> Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. = Reschke, >>>> Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", = draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging- >>>> 05 (work in progress), July 2019. >>>=20 >>> Observations: >>>=20 >>> 1) author initials not restricted to one anymore (I'm open to = change, >>> but it should be properly documented) >>=20 >> That=E2=80=99s been in the draft style guide for a while. >>=20 >> "The author's name (initial followed by family name) appears on = the >> first line of the heading. Some variation, such as additional >> initials or capitalization of family name, is acceptable. Once the >> author has selected how their name should appear, they should use >> that display consistently in all of their documents." >=20 > That's about the front page, not for references. Iirc, we=E2=80=99ve always tried to be consistent between what=E2=80=99s = on the front page and what=E2=80=99s in the references.=20 >=20 > For the latter, the draft style guide says in > >: >=20 >> [SYMBOLIC-TAG] Last name, First initial., Ed. (if applicable) and >> First initial. Last name, Ed. (if applicable), "I-D Title", = Internet >> Draft, draft-string-NN, Month Year. >=20 > Note: "first initial=E2=80=9D. =E2=80=9CSecond initial if provided=E2=80=9D is a really ugly example, = but I can add it if you think it=E2=80=99s critical. >=20 >> .. >> 3) "(work in progress)" is missing >>=20 >> Bug. >=20 > Ack. >=20 >>> 4) A URI on tools.ietf.org is inserted that = I'd prefer not to have here. >>=20 >> Why not? I think having a URI makes a lot of sense. >=20 > The style guide doesn't say so. The author didn't provide one. Why is > the tool inserting something automatically? Also, why to = tools.ietf.org ? > Are you planning to put that into the style guide? Well, there are always things the authors don=E2=80=99t provide that are = automatically added. And since we=E2=80=99ve been talking about making = sure that internal links to specific sections are included (which = perforce MUST go to tools references) the thought was to be consistent = and have the reference point to the same place that the internal section = pointers are going to send people. I think it would be confusing to have = one set of links go one place, and another set of links to somewhere = entirely different. -Heather --Apple-Mail=_2CEC5F18-6408-4B83-92F3-92DE196E7037 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Oct 1, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

On 01.10.2019 22:03, Heather = Flanagan wrote:


On Oct 1, 2019, at 8:01 = AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:

V3:

  [Messaging]
          &nb= sp;  Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. F. = Reschke,
          &nb= sp;  Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", Internet-Draft, draft-ietf-
          &nb= sp;  httpbis-messaging-05, July 2019,
          &nb= sp;  <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging-          &nb= sp;  99>.

V2:

  [Messaging]
          &nb= sp;  Fielding, R., Ed., Nottingham, M., Ed., and J. = Reschke,
          &nb= sp;  Ed., "HTTP/1.1 Messaging", = draft-ietf-httpbis-messaging-
          &nb= sp;  05 (work in progress), July 2019.

Observations:

1) author initials not restricted to one anymore (I'm open to = change,
but it should be properly documented)

That=E2=80=99s been in the draft = style guide for a while.

"<t>The = author's name (initial followed by family name) appears on the
first line of the heading.  Some variation, such as = additional
initials or capitalization of family name, is = acceptable.  Once the
author has selected how their = name should appear, they should use
that display = consistently in all of their documents.</t>"

That's about the front page, not for references.

Iirc, = we=E2=80=99ve always tried to be consistent between what=E2=80=99s on = the front page and what=E2=80=99s in the references. 


For the latter, the draft style = guide says in
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-flanagan-7322bis-03#section-4= .8.6.4>:
  [SYMBOLIC-TAG]  Last name, First initial., = Ed. (if applicable) and
  First initial. =  Last name, Ed. (if applicable), "I-D Title", Internet
  Draft, draft-string-NN, Month Year.

Note: "first initial=E2=80=9D.

=E2=80=9CSecond initial if provided=E2=80=9D is a = really ugly example, but I can add it if you think it=E2=80=99s = critical.


.. = >> 3) "(work in progress)" is missing

Bug.

Ack.

4)= A URI on tools.ietf.org is inserted that I'd prefer = not to have here.

Why not? I = think having a URI makes a lot of sense.

The style guide doesn't say so. = The author didn't provide one. Why is
the tool inserting something automatically? Also, why to tools.ietf.org?
Are you planning to put that into the style = guide?

Well, there = are always things the authors don=E2=80=99t provide that are = automatically added. And since we=E2=80=99ve been talking about making = sure that internal links to specific sections are included (which = perforce MUST go to tools references) the thought was to be consistent = and have the reference point to the same place that the internal section = pointers are going to send people. I think it would be confusing to have = one set of links go one place, and another set of links to somewhere = entirely different.

-Heather


= --Apple-Mail=_2CEC5F18-6408-4B83-92F3-92DE196E7037-- From nobody Tue Oct 1 20:45:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D6C120288 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 20:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DJqJP5WP3HTp for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 20:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74CB5120096 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 20:45:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569987934; bh=J9phVugKt005m5fXjfTWftwO7qnTu15Zi/tbwtcOK00=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WcheZbmQ7q/ZTW+FGiSNoav8WHtkVyqEei1MYC7T/k5Xxi4r3KdYdF0E0xXzt6frE gYHr7GlF89mc+pJtTEBZXAOxDWKdGlIORzbgEOyoDAnm3cNFjMnGEtnwpAsu0XAQUa /29wob/p9Lz96zG0Rv4yo936aNur0vC0whoDWTvU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.159.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MHGCo-1iJvQs2DKq-00DKFe; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:45:34 +0200 To: Heather Flanagan Cc: XML Developer List References: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:45:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZqVOieNIIKixIy5+hiaqmu3rSHET9lIAMYb7At9nBgZNBNN6WXd M21ENlYYFUAprwiuFAAdP40tnbI0eA5Q2qb8/6wn1vPchkcrS0VYCnOh4tOaEcnUMLl4y3c 3yPqi78pH1y/pykw4MThX+JQNvVtUW70qM5SMoi1Q0pVZiBKK8Y4mdetxMeYpCpf7xzrF0m c3V2IJbDbKIGEc4Hu6dDw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:RWuf/IB7W08=:WaFYKMfsVXEvTnNoKv1Iys VKwOQ9hs2P6Pbl0ShYPtestbvQb7asS/1qTq/0s8uXjpQ1UzJ0bseYJUb6fDxgGQEAIVOJ/Qs l4p/UVhlMgOhlB0c89bM7C6MzuQ8T5jgSBBvrTOvcSu8+IunTEhp2RcPDS3ZOXN0VCECVBYGh b1eddgHtbKb9Q8vbPIEVN9S4Lv9tUdQ3uvBXeAmJ/DKVJUX6SnuUXydgZ2fJ7tKPPlKAesuIb +DoZli6WJcp5t2HatPPb+tSz+wzoTIrCW6SfBRTLLRnSpm10YMFwGQLmgFuQeefg0xlT+y5Mo kkWd4p42K4y6PTn6yiC4hWmD42dnJJqsC7MVQb8VJsXt8TK7zfXeijAn9FleaFFezoSBanHUB ercFDhwPnlOGt2PGiFvG4NWGmq2ZXKIeA6RMQJyGqlaHxZMlvPKwHPj5XX6tHd0kZ2pPZHra6 fNZzDgdfADPW3X4W7fdvW44g7VrcUHzbWU4AEtkuQxNFzZZS91toZkGpuS44enOwXx7WgLFRg RsAb6B8xAwmxWQ9B9DkHPei7VwElyoCug0MxFZLhzwq6NGyfF/OJygyQwObtW/wnaavUebM53 9ShG/GGVsvfyL9SEPQqMYTT8E3pa63xbhRQ9m4wCufiQBgcbYb8RLUQpb7n4NU5xseBf5bk0Q F2wrhP/RtPNZsQiJzT7UzazrKzENhkBuIQhfQW8yAAAWJuq6FD30lNvv1qppvy5oE0VUT8y0z s/shxGVU0RQZn/IQxnFhi+KgLbdbYJESywj2YM2GMsJ2oB3dV15VVPH//EsQnLYDZ2asy6/5L 1Z9Q4C9kmZ87quRbOx4NWHosGD57idY9e6QOL3obwxFeoNh7jf1giK5HDbwPr0ErGrtcBJE2d URgSvsIdzuHy3fTdoo6rI4rCbmbqlYOGy3kE37qQikrxiW8jlkVz9UWbbAT5m7L+59EJt/peY V7irkgfONe2DeuSc1iwBGZ7Ss8eYx+z4CA/6LRQNxaIuG3LYvh7hWB1IGg8rKNMt/I4WEqx4y bPnfAu3A5JMW1Pbxsb2mdhRUGps3a9JPIkT+fxIjeEfJ/JZX6lj0ynR0+y89qUeX5WOfAsNH/ 5eHMOuz9+0n7rQqbCEibuHMlfVBYnjq1ubVIIHJMsqeNM1E8zF1BMq9wPSdGvc61X1/2hB/Fm +UxkveoP65obaV5yXAd8yLDlExxK13gFd31bB4jlyxOUOqVWX2jMVhpk8Zx9eI6tXRRZxipSF YkzR95ZJcUeVoA4+koXY/LDN6dIfmzBpNhWfBgGJRtoSZn4iRlPvVZcFucvI= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 03:45:44 -0000 On 01.10.2019 23:19, Heather Flanagan wrote: > ... >>> "The author's name (initial followed by family name) appears on the >>> first line of the heading. =C2=A0Some variation, such as additional >>> initials or capitalization of family name, is acceptable. =C2=A0Once t= he >>> author has selected how their name should appear, they should use >>> that display consistently in all of their documents." >> >> That's about the front page, not for references. > > Iirc, we=E2=80=99ve always tried to be consistent between what=E2=80=99s= on the front > page and what=E2=80=99s in the references. > ... Well, but we are not consistent right now. >> For the latter, the draft style guide says in >> = : >> >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0[SYMBOLIC-TAG] =C2=A0Last name, First initial., Ed. (if ap= plicable) and >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0First initial. =C2=A0Last name, Ed. (if applicable), "I-D = Title", Internet >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0Draft, draft-string-NN, Month Year. >> >> Note: "first initial=E2=80=9D. > > =E2=80=9CSecond initial if provided=E2=80=9D is a really ugly example, b= ut I can add it > if you think it=E2=80=99s critical. That would still be inconsistent with the front page, no? > ... >>>> 4) A URI ontools.ietf.org is inserted that >>>> I'd prefer not to have here. >>> >>> Why not? I think having a URI makes a lot of sense. >> >> The style guide doesn't say so. The author didn't provide one. Why is >> the tool inserting something automatically? Also, why totools.ietf.org >> ? >> Are you planning to put that into the style guide? > > Well, there are always things the authors don=E2=80=99t provide that are > automatically added. And since we=E2=80=99ve been talking about making s= ure that > internal links to specific sections are included (which perforce MUST go > to tools references) the thought was to be consistent and have the > reference point to the same place that the internal section pointers are > going to send people. I think it would be confusing to have one set of > links go one place, and another set of links to somewhere entirely > different. Well. Right now the tools target is only inserted when none is specified, so this is not in line what you're arguing for. Also, for RFCs the target uses https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfcNNNN, which also is not the URI used for the section links. Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Oct 1 21:20:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A687A12011E for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 21:20:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGqpSB4_KABr for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 21:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38FA7120096 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 21:19:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569989996; bh=KEAEsXYPUbCJLpb2CvH4DQWHlSdntzm+3ceYWkO9FO8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=BMsjn0Jf17qUF0zYdTyyr1BHSo/Z5WQzS9L2bplmz4fuUYSby9Y+QU8/jEfb7Qh3B bTp+e+ionQucTiBBiHvigi3spLIMEHPe6/Yvr7PSs8SIZDZUmlExVvDNVEqnaa0lH6 hMObrEojLQ0N+XXgKC9KVv0ka2+RSxLcgiL1XdEE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.159.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N79uI-1i3bxg3Aey-017Sru for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:19:56 +0200 To: XML Developer List From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <1f64ae39-ec45-172a-0c83-50c4ccc0387d@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 06:19:56 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:WWUx3j8TJ8OBy8d5IrjWVQJEI0U/cdAX2O8zLg6LgFz6Ol1V/yZ XxPng/eyxJtHZbAIRgf0F4qB6Aj7pqALnWHTana4e4qYln/fNA6l8gQe7Qw2MTanZFD4onv HSew73yXZHzgftJrdFmWX6XFGYFX5lHZZykU6O4kVFLa6Zidyv3RDIA5siq7BDKUR2H3dIB hwq1rUZi2r2Jt9NWgK7ew== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:JuRBx+M7xw0=:eRNG+hPsSvNlgTvd1oWjAo H+J5EXbIX01G/kfUCE3mNBZhrKu/ISGanXOG0JCWwUTVCoYTpd+WjKj6UBf1lzRn10536Iorc bwbhROKJV+u83cEZ/BnXjZ+cDO/PEmXQWcvpKjVaKkgHOTjOBk72FPU+4c1LfyH6FJqrk1D6k aW+lw0KpK1v4u9Hd7QGiRlc0gmspu+0gsUfHze4ixnxm3A6FZHf3jUqfQ5iiY71Ydzqtq3LUC c6E+D2CUiY4hwlyO3kuXKJYnILXzwBx1g0y3oz8kBTSygI2UCXrrX//UnYjQpB0mVRnvQ2NRZ 5ET+x8ahnWI1LoFmVuff1LS07PKPC/NU8amwidwunt9uSyrKqwvBbOkvnT/GEpCNRS4tyGYLC fSLG6qHQLOPNImhVDQol3yKW9oCmc4Gvob2LA2M/g1f8xSJa56p2nwg9E9hfEDD63i0bBUa45 y6ve5CkuVLesfTNo/wo95GtUXDSWBnBwDR1YCBemt8tzieFh2+Nx5DbI3p3c2dwGSJPqrB6QC L71iMuCPpLTuRSD1C5K2ZcWL8M/2qpAJUfOPzD5szr1JYjV9DKEDgQ3LmFaxSsuJ+BQKkInVF GQiB7j1rl7z9nW14BHMxbDPitHjSXc5gushVIREOIcoc0HLp1isfjXWEGDnG69JQACqpGkF2w RYs33I7i5otuUwfu9QUeIKni6FFsmaSrEoZwAGr6ECfoR15dFYq4VLu7MqoXFnMJtAaXTeMIu 6VelhxTHfS2oag4+lasvni2Fq/E1R9oiAt0cX36MOuWJtwOtzGKD7RSnUmefqLEQAkhSAiKQy oA8uQut5Zoyi3ZU4I9Tpb27MK8G72XAhI7XsVOPlhZI3EtKpCKg4x9PVwYrFC6bNzO0Uw6EPG LkHfVCYpzrpil+his8wV3iJgjCRz+qpYaAIjoriS1JwuRwlaw58FjyOQIqpDkh8GzPNXC5/9w BImyWAnbbhii1S3ab+nXk04aWbOY7yno3wZWe2vckONvKCsaS93FwNKgMoB/N7TM1P/Nd+asN BNJxJ9QDATu+AykCEjIHos0IDaxJ/+xJYU+81LqCxxRkNi2c6DVmJNxIMANsbs64DlfL/EiOw TcIMWtndrLVZQkYcpSssvvzlBDLl5Qcq3ThF4qcxMOrgF7KnlHiC1LfJPm4DL9aXUl1DPfDSW +Ek/V7+fsyjZzD+Ynhq63RH1RUOgDDHDVMS5ayHn0PCNzzhtifbLxJH73dnziDhbeYE6HzdOj d9pbkG6WzEifNbDI2ry51vn2T69RzO/tWYWydeQpXzIAFCIF83ZdtuGr0Adk= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] formatting in text output X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 04:20:03 -0000 In V3 mode the text formatter now formats elements without surrounding angle brackets. So, for instance, > Working Group information can be found at ; > source code and issues list for this draft can be found at > . now becomes > Working Group information can be found at https://httpwg.org/; source > code and issues list for this draft can be found at > https://github.com/httpwg/http-core. On the plus side, this makes the output consistent with the HTML output. On the negative side, it makes URI formatting inconsistent with the way URIs appear in references. Also, it is violating a style guide recommendation (): > 3.3. DNS Names and URIs > > DNS names, whether or not in URIs, that are used as generic examples > in RFCs should use the particular examples defined in "Reserved Top > Level DNS Names" [BCP32], to avoid accidental conflicts. > > Angle brackets are strongly recommended around URIs [STD66], e.g., > > > > The use of HTTPS rather than HTTP is strongly encouraged. Or is the assumption that authors add literal angle brackets *around* elements? This would lead to ugly XML source due to the required escaping. I think this needs more work - not sure where (style guide/format specs/formatter...). Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Oct 1 22:46:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41ED5120041 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:46:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8vkpSROMr9bN for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E307120077 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:45:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569995154; bh=57PyqVqS0AUl1g8QmoVpXvOAZpNKR8VJOJ8Ezm3xJyE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=O8MiAo+WgrGx8EGbf0ej+xWudk+HlA7UNClnWEtug0hrEmz45vY4RnTC/octtiMM0 QOsFL5OAij7qK3KDwgqmhsLrPWKGHluvdLWxyEElpjaaIOD1MrvXlpdYV4zjsdt/kD GNJf7TyyHIhmwk2U3KepnG8X+nYRR5ZtHCGU6jS4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.159.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N3se8-1i6uXa2bM8-00zn66 for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 07:45:54 +0200 To: XML Developer List From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <7adc8a61-1805-99e3-2097-c8d9d77c6e6d@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 07:45:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:PFe0rBsiDrTIIHa7BLigU0+azdg3GJtc5ouejVRJFgPV0ph47dd NUAIO2oN+RIVbZ7UDVyj3iC0i9NKzZjyXPR+y/ljrY9gctewFNWtW4D2tAg2BB/xBHfWoSj kGrum4zA26WWaaZRkanCngFZ4gvkYDvQXIpVEXKQPObJTe5XLNY4qgujz2pMMqroX9QmbJg wvSzrOqju01rbO7i+vrbg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:2jMAyTN0q+I=:uo2+mGrJMS44wKoU+i7ie5 Lcnj4MSPVHjNtCDedGxv4tREtskvNmhlraR+ghHEW3kH7l9/dD36qhOH7PG6VAOmo+5SqTQif Xf3bjE3lj6hgfaKk9clu8jUP+mMFqH6W/nD/p3Bim5XpkeQWakn0pvNc5CUJg3JGxFdqDatdt J86EvcHbp/6vlSzMvB58+mDJYveXMa91pqZy/oUP8ij9V4P+wmUNHKbmdBlgfi5XMX+sLt/gv vdfwZUTxqwlgjOf/BJH8LNb/qFrYhFhFI+NZ3WsdHHoMU5lRSN6JoPPvEDJK2sgN8zhq2oVhS 2cPYfcAOOzdlZog/IkHu7t/pqnEqqPVZSfYTaOZqbM7pkSbQ7wcTxCq7Saapi+GLYFJkCQNQn Als4wWiNknqXI2VBzGIwsuQtfrGWOSQjR9Kb4uxTZMjrOc28kQop4LCXhQIvKLe+AgTVCvbPa gAOuSDrIiLBg9q6UQB6WsHRYk4evLw1/v1Emqh6aEqEohcB+1p77rqIKnQ/EpcLbBjtN9XMBb OMx3n02Gj+sER2qDbF5u04m/uWumKp3m+iBcNDv+wDWVifRUXFIyX3Wtstuc/hIaE6b82y6m9 BO7BV3GGIseJ/ATFqQDwPO+nf5MWsI9VRd75yPFlIZArl8YemYW8Av2oYHd9eMAL7MzenKx8h Kd6YHEQSm5HXTq72uPVqmwYvp4snYwdjolrDtRLyQcQbx6q6fF7nJt1OddZfY8BlfozxXnXbJ ojyxlLSl5rEw+fNq2VucSkqQ8sr9qvZ2yRjRZIU26wd0vUz/sYTic2/CC/eMPTbS/u2aX+Xaf qVTzfyZ9aPaFE3ohPLqkmRP1eTwTc+8lNGjaktg3ATe/EUSZoi9m+ZfLLq5qMPPFcoE+8GP4A iXjKV2AcUN8kbdGcA/A7bq62aF5n7vn6YeL19cpmu2mUwI0PXzbBP+FyZ7DDMNWRbF+QlkSqW GrnUFYq8fekBWzgCVrw4HCwFI3L37eb2BalhlpN1jghdpyZMN92i7TzobRcssBPrjGPTUp7wY Kp3QLA2cYNiCKf3H5PM7URZt6R7FZ5LUdGxI0/GNY7E8aMKRMT6Aeu1C2FylBrZ+0260y6TpT KHvQt4PLjXkoIAWGc+2uwtb1yS3+T+kFRRKIsPwOs2RdJgOzYPuEwQ9RKrGJiam3aCa1wghPy 0t68xnfrWvZBgky92VwApe9hZhJCCR1Nb4J9vUS/O0jJrCto7N2C28hOxnjxkbmrVaztEAZMY 3+EIjWj84ZYpUKcGDgKkEKQznDopwFiy6j0mpIwUd7YvsDEmXRXF5kI9eyDY= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] silent information loss when formatting X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:46:00 -0000 In v3 mode, the formatter formats postal addresses according to the detected local of the address. This leads to cases where information is silently dropped (such as for German addresses). There are also cases where information is normalized (such as expanding "USA"). In both cases, the formatter should inform the user about these omissions/rewrites. Best regards, Julian PS: reported as From nobody Tue Oct 1 22:55:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA25120232 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:55:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOhg7Qjr5XB3 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1494120077 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 22:55:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569995714; bh=Yo08oTpXYRmL8LFnKwYNlz5yql+qqCvtcD0biuqfGHw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MY23Ie/Ec0sjyuAHJY+BbVUpdhLaxmtvHWkruoa6gcBj5VNJdOpq5USvPVd78cgqF GZ2eTLN/Y4YxjD7XgCzOMKSHzqnQR1W1LpyT+zpK/eTTDXhDhnpEG4je5LPjChIpEH WeO4UtVFwlfJMMBtg4jzyb4+wPrDa7NUSQMpHhvg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.159.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MSKy8-1iiAHa0SjI-00Sj8b for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 07:55:14 +0200 From: Julian Reschke To: XML Developer List References: <7adc8a61-1805-99e3-2097-c8d9d77c6e6d@gmx.de> Message-ID: <7e2588d8-6a79-72b6-6560-370eb28bbd69@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 07:55:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7adc8a61-1805-99e3-2097-c8d9d77c6e6d@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZFPRSttfIIHtUPVjeqWb8oJiCntXYOaInIQsEXlqZHNxOjeZeFW Sj0YPpW7bqrESDSWihkXL+2+lN6hJBW5j4sorBgEecFkO3bnNJ9f0DjaSXZsfcplXkBNO2w PiLjByuZsy4SGSsjopngns1nQMK7LPTq1+yO7iAJhugq2tRfLc0XsRiYaeHWQKJ25xmHAsu fzrn6AgS9TIYGtckSbv8w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:kxHRllBpZ40=:79B42JXUm+icZfSX4/V1UF Bvcwf+AKd39OGcUw/CpoKP2jU9H0/LuNCPpr08iv1f25yC4LgR4eZL4ZieRsPnt/RsT+hxnFZ m5aYSKcM1QvEOXWwazApgHRw46Gi1jCeEb5D2QosArRPpThBmpweqWtWlwQ6jUdbeAMwvstN+ safVrLxdEpUnXYZT0QoYeggx4rnPnn+nIH77Szq1/BYQ9HM0ssddlLbj3YdyrWg2+HaN+7vTv x+UJrNWa6KF9S3CiNzy+5fTwCL2kW5OoOhCq0yYBK4QrYupn1eJai/VCc6g5VUhIFvtPJfjG4 ZGoc+Zds/Lnc3+306X7cTDCxMmqHIWDcoCjR01E+6ZEobccy3NX1wXz9YblzwGgdyJy5Jcq0o 6ESlEn/CyaKBCXpoq2s+b1ANPsyNKxiLg5hYyOYiI51m/VflBXL5Wjqnzg+VJJHVJKO19t9K8 veyJvGJO3hrDy3tlAyItT2tBOGdDvVieivVHSTeNgg6pIMYzobZxD+hki2AeCiIVQl6QLnxsS GopuSvjXHsSY+5jai7aLHaEjRzVQIhHJiN5PRHtftSZ94x9egoeeSuNxFdvBNgA8JQKEB4RTG Thtg7oZybGhzrClcVt7KvjuhpS+j7bL11662wlcB+afozlThXAZuVl4kU1j6XNbeYodWmJXvm nyHUIpTn8BZa7nan3WC5iStDjq1pyLIXqO0fekLAw2q2pCVIasdY0GSSU7cOeieefWxDrFP02 WacJjRIx2xxHYaDaPpH0tKzfUba+BRdmvs68SvbhMzezCaXFLx82YBuQKzKaIGbraCxnoBTuF jvx5Fut0uomF4Db6ePUAtzWYbtcOKEn9G9LXucif+W4dhDHOTuFf/ziQDEp+HqetYCUBaNQpf ahfL8jWbmHPb6ryTc/wcW44CY7gEwWOh5hFmCTN+Wb+BSmPOfSjhg1Zr+Vyp0FSTU06sKXYpo s98qs7Mzqm1soNJOVt3I4WbLzQU0iRsL3qgL9RYLbhFvY/PH9jIPrM7ekQc3cW/bZ3pDj6fda UZGztkJwA6aWcbKvAdgj3uZsF/yR0Gg3I4NMxp8cJCcSgCtigqvfX5WgdTkiyywCh6cFNj3wf tb1hyZ/H7cBbL3LYynoCPFil6UHGBSmhCf3UZmhANkF7Zc9cqficnCy/hNagUdHmGW6qgro+r l4MtxY3sgV2U9QQQv8H/JjZFWrZh2QkDSO5wZMHEm74gQkXL2ARUo1Dh1nDddkflMBAG81arg LVJJOSx3hjywSGPvnIGJUV9smejwoK7dqOW4yJdkQXewx+aLpOR1Y7gdnS8E= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] silent information loss when formatting X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 05:55:19 -0000 On 02.10.2019 07:45, Julian Reschke wrote: > In v3 mode, the formatter formats postal addresses according to the > detected local of the address. > > This leads to cases where information is silently dropped (such as > for German addresses). > > There are also cases where information is normalized (such as expanding > "USA"). > > In both cases, the formatter should inform the user about these > omissions/rewrites. > > Best regards, Julian > > PS: reported as Related to that: says: > Contact information must include a long-lived email address and > optionally may include a postal address and/or telephone number. If > the postal address is included, it should include the country name, > using the English short name listed by the ISO 3166 Maintenance > Agency [ISO_OBP]. The purpose of this section is to (1) > unambiguously define author identity (e.g., the John Smith who works > for FooBar Systems) and (2) provide contact information for future > readers who have questions or comments. I *believe* this means that expanding "USA" to "United States of America" is incorrect. "Believe" because the citation for ISO_OPB isn't really helpful, it goes to , a generic ISO search page. Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Oct 1 23:05:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A27E3120041 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 23:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHmAuaTAEz2f for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3803120026 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2019 23:05:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1569996347; bh=yt/csHvKHleXS8stlk+U5TIjNkLsJakZw+eFeOd7jYs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=NSz8PlhQ8fHkopaXVa8ANTHQFnzwuzIs5MtbxiMTAPE+XjtZTTc2+qbIUGDvNMGqO oIxh8tYhywK4gpQIFMNXrsCdIZVWz4knYG/9+NilteKEFHP2uTF0dZkqq981k1KUhD aVN9Ts3T3LKM8xEVOEKeLzS2pqjCbY98mK2HEi74= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([84.171.159.18]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MvK4f-1hyQah423V-00rEJr for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:05:47 +0200 From: Julian Reschke To: XML Developer List References: <7adc8a61-1805-99e3-2097-c8d9d77c6e6d@gmx.de> <7e2588d8-6a79-72b6-6560-370eb28bbd69@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 08:05:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7e2588d8-6a79-72b6-6560-370eb28bbd69@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FhzCTTTBwhZsDk/R1+1y7bMT76VSvBxScqUCuFjxcR6HR7QX0xC QWMbIQvH75mq+f5M6F8ok6ztkoTrLHuTGqojRGl7t2FrFAS6CriHmQll4L+YrvVD9ErmGn+ u8j9d0VPZvunmzabZNZTb7pUvHkgUXAKD9hMq9ijVxz7+xs6qPkNM1Cu9C2FxKu84JDqSKk fHJScHs3H4W1zNqq6j5Sw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VeAYQtNvf1A=:P4dfZPyCdJvlwr943LFeXq XcKYQE0xzSeIukYW1DUyMS+Htf9pDZ9jZ7472CFdwR6oRaiDKnaOT0XEifvrXbgmMBNKtp3vC LruIDPMYALB6UBEJG8WU09PrkN/wi/4RRAL1dxCdWEudyj94vUKrbXaBmZpCXSRXDSh2BOIiL 6fuFn2PzyDGFGyEfh0YPugQVawi5w149AlNjY0MrZ9eLeUnizKQbMbYdPE8PxzLdP/BkIhmSV rT7dX3pPOv4ZR0ngG+nsQ8G2G9HtG7IHlvFYIE7gbYObJaccyzX68GlRlsCka4l+7MAyHIkx4 yVkFupqTAFi4ajuLFQ+/euE64LRQyTosK5rmVAeHZIn3Z37MtG//eppFCu7Nm4dbw0ZB/xVjB EeHIRQL6YOraQPooo3pa8HbfsuANj5OqH9Fdj116rQBf6Lz+NZgic/Ri6xA9haJqaUwFio9H8 OVf0HRLm32tjXx/H57ij29H4GvuHgu0HmJy00MYQoWiTZN+5B9uSvhdU2l+uXCfQQpcEKdMUj o6ITxSvmMVVwClHqRQObLzWpnCWL7WeJyqruaYgddS2cfp5+ONgEWfc2oZfkpQUhwGgvV7kZ9 M0SlvhS9dycjTlHeyl1Gr1ZTm1EFf6coo1iuimp6K2Mlosy/1mBFYiszWWtszfCTKYVPXyPsn HKj3Fd0wUQ62YOMX/TwggqZgC3KEYe8fUnYBtXbkADAOYnSdo9Rft1u9a3AXjccixdKL4Q/jU gUC8fixQt9275Jb66fhLLudKhvmJp0RC1CV60OjJWojz5819ndrLKLiBSfn4kG/uYzzXvs+n1 sUrvxVMBVr+GdgXZ9UqUAlpZ7q2sH9v74MQZjdmbus/C/B0OFQXpWxW4UCWnkgMKFAzWVTSX3 opmo6OaLbTSB7buYQ1apjUFagNGTv9lStkCEwYLog9Vxz+B8MXq2a/M9dIcwqSaT7AqcfMM1x ITiu8XpBnsSQnC6OcDdT9+lt67+lXFfw9O915oQeqfkdVvcN4raDHYb0Zzdl3+YllDYasLIdm ucn7yzF5IJFPTthBw1a7XEpufyp/K8Ct3OyAJOb3Z8Gc6E2f+akDcTjYA9RfqS29SgVWcYqdG 7kA4G4RRsw92rp9bNWDOKT+f9leCuttF70/LA9faAhT8Du9m5tbv3d6Sbgqt4Zv68rmON9vnC QpJphUSwYhLiHkiLEn2G0k1hRmAvLRZg8ZeUrkAJEKF+pJePnEGz+H4K/Ca4e8yJ5DORpRLB2 xFm/0ZCzCJzwFvHq3aUOjc6PiA5EjJ6n9A2uXXLP9rLrHWienDZEOKBjq8S8= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] silent information loss when formatting X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:05:55 -0000 On 02.10.2019 07:55, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 02.10.2019 07:45, Julian Reschke wrote: >> In v3 mode, the formatter formats postal addresses according to the >> detected local of the address. >> >> This leads to cases where information is silently dropped (such as >> for German addresses). >> >> There are also cases where information is normalized (such as >> expanding "USA"). >> >> In both cases, the formatter should inform the user about these >> omissions/rewrites. >> >> Best regards, Julian >> >> PS: reported as >> > > Related to that: > say= s: > >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Contact information must include a long-lived email addres= s and >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 optionally may include a postal address and/or telephone n= umber.=C2=A0 If >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 the postal address is included, it should include the coun= try name, >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 using the English short name listed by the ISO 3166 Mainte= nance >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Agency [ISO_OBP].=C2=A0 The purpose of this section is to = (1) >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 unambiguously define author identity (e.g., the John Smith= who works >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 for FooBar Systems) and (2) provide contact information fo= r future >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 readers who have questions or comments. > > I *believe* this means that expanding "USA" to "United States of > America" is incorrect. "Believe" because the citation for ISO_OPB isn't > really helpful, it goes to , a generic ISO > search page. In the meantime I realized that "United States of America" indeed *is* the short name; so I please ignore the above comment... Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Oct 2 03:10:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B23912006A for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 03:10:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8DdGdWGAZjqP for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CAF8120122 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 03:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.159.97.60] (ewa_guest_internet_sthlm_nat2.ericsson.net [192.176.1.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46jsN656Rhz10D4; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 12:10:46 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 12:10:46 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , XML Developer List X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 591703844.120478-14655f876a36f1b890eda0adbbb46264 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7e8bb742-1939-b48c-e7f7-03f3bec6bd63@gmx.de> <6F5868A8-56F3-4E26-B297-2CE0BD765397@rfc-editor.org> To: Heather Flanagan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [xml2rfc-dev] V3 breakage in formatting internet draft references X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 10:10:51 -0000 On Oct 1, 2019, at 23:19, Heather Flanagan wrote: >=20 > =E2=80=9CSecond initial if provided=E2=80=9D is a really ugly example, = but I can add it if you think it=E2=80=99s critical. How does that work? I have a second initial that I=E2=80=99m not using. If I started doing = that, there would be a hodgepodge of citations, and people would start = copying that initial over to citations that don=E2=80=99t have it and = delete it from citations that do. Heck, I=E2=80=99m happy when people don=E2=80=99t use Dave Borman=E2=80=99= s last name for citing my documents (*), so I don=E2=80=99t know why we = have to facilitate even more inconsistency between citation authors. (There may be a purpose on earth for an explicit override that a = citation author can invoke using some arduous ceremony if absolutely = needed. The normal case it should be not.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) e.g., in RFC 3374, 3409, 4376, 4628, 4896 (three times). =20 Sheesh, I never grepped for that before, I didn=E2=80=99t even know the = extent of the problem=E2=80=A6 From nobody Wed Oct 2 05:16:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04103120019 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7_ATKYLFCWhD for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC38012000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:16:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1570018597; bh=ic/a+Gh2wjjMalzB3Ux+P4i8Km8BJT6EcORpkBX4P5o=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Rs5pdk7iWO7juyYeSGS1Yrmv9iGVgcQ1x2dCAEGgtKAjzNcqPUkdQRmKZ1woS8J7F UmUBBs9WKwGbE2NWVoD+b0RL5fk6XtibqicDCm1zStrvm5sp9IncgxSehwvjS/0RcV 3r3OREmrBmOiIARukdfj5H9sPuXG3hNKeacyOi1w= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MEV3I-1iMoYh3Ejq-00G57H for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:16:37 +0200 From: Julian Reschke To: XML Developer List References: <7adc8a61-1805-99e3-2097-c8d9d77c6e6d@gmx.de> <7e2588d8-6a79-72b6-6560-370eb28bbd69@gmx.de> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:16:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:PRCvZsqcAACyPtQLvQCJYcUClH7DKGcmNRTnsM3c8leqiKmiAWo +RxJwNnbM3ZirgM0hmq6wY0JnR7/sqykYViJgMmACuznVQqKvUyo/jprT9b8sq3At5S/CEg UaIxidChdxCLTxGyqrxbB5JkoyU9Me1Zw7WcW0AiWOKnFuzPP3T3saAzrGrn/Do0xv0f89j OA6MTYnCBhJTimbso7bAQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:E2+4HdAxNlY=:zx+uD9wQlbB8/GojNItXiy xCwjv+0AeGCDXgM+Qum17PHxfnpC9/sZGviKQTSF+pB3fT9yYG8FtUotDqTSkrQZXz6RWvZdy b5gr9w6VVATJb67t8Y/fEr7OMcF7DXd/vDug2lNPU4YOYZtuT7O5QkFB3o9KCcnbYWNGjvi4T jSX6sVffzZIGoJfmQpUBt0RQikjpnXWW7buF8O3eufikdXUP2gTK9N5iMC8rwaodhi+tmu4xB dGkA+8Vc0z3vdYqjvUbvU3qtMGZfDys/L43w/wOvGsxL2Nm/J+l9/SswTErhJRVxMJgyw4dDm Rw2SimMvYM855Iy5iuZuRTd+3VdxiN8/df55L+biPO3l7oBAmq16cncTTRlRxG8DN+hDJievF R9n0S+8hCA4PjD7MAkyekE5wUpmfmpYx6axw5Q7QLQJ0nh+FPS/3b9L5W/PP+DRqoLRTopY9r 7sWrWXISOhi/8wS8/aFe2m1tC2xEai39wC1OfRJjBWEzGfMfN5epNjsA3V74ySLuupYP3/Lmn tWr7TVzhWpZ/DaI/8wN43LwX8FOj7VWjni8RNHyz5v2nmQDBwndCnq+UG92q9ijv3QGmW70oX BmCMpqphFrVJ0NofjXZYHw0OK6z6CneKiSslgu2xGTeuih/8a96Y7wBPkHTfsyc0ovGdwQ5c+ WgonKLB4ahYM2spE3NSN7aeWXJo0t8oeF6rAeOepOUtgrnEIQl47d+LLSkCiYB6e1Dpy7nEnL BPo/9wKvd/GAp5tikM9escWhhW2b/+P6NMk9nAkfW+Y7lUdKe+TnL5Vi8H2hcIOe/i/y5DYl5 rOo9UsEsMKfALxNHAqIfMSNLIqNyxjLEcwBhAP4Z4zjANjFAK/cESNxyCPvBjCox45+ih6C8k iHFInQZ2/x4YbOCJaqQhmQOT2S15OcaK/k0h5T0jAZ8T11sc/nl2AspmRJ/H3CZiK+CNDzwHK 5eCqE8dH8GmhQXxohTFcVxdnRmK1TJ9K85o4JRpRA3GmqhLDk7uHTIB5v8PUCRAQz+dlbDcu6 VIoKc6DY+tZlh8AulMVBCP5r+miA1XtBicP9dEym+arScC4rbdsishvdRym6iT4vYqapc/vk+ 2sQjZqVnkbO4BOF3om8Sn7BJs9/Md5+AGr241fpF6dda9waDxzZvpiLOJTSMCwNVmEeTM1gAH XMM/aPj+6X8vkkfVY4IevcWAexVZZ80QK8luF6S2zsPjAhaeRSM3OYHzZN4R3IWPR/YUuHaFS yv1AVSl6eEmHaL/MZ4eZ9JaQ965w4g/UWnF7rBjWWkA3m7lYsZSqKs1YBCSg= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] ISO country short names, was: silent information loss when formatting X-BeenThere: xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion about particulars of xml2rfc V3 design, development and code." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2019 12:16:44 -0000 On 02.10.2019 08:05, Julian Reschke wrote: > ... >> Related to that: >> >> says: >> >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Contact information must include a long-lived email addre= ss and >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 optionally may include a postal address and/or telephone = number.=C2=A0 If >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 the postal address is included, it should include the cou= ntry name, >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 using the English short name listed by the ISO 3166 Maint= enance >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 Agency [ISO_OBP].=C2=A0 The purpose of this section is to= (1) >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 unambiguously define author identity (e.g., the John Smit= h who works >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 for FooBar Systems) and (2) provide contact information f= or future >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 readers who have questions or comments. >> ... Here be dragons, unless I'm missing something. According to the referenced web page, the "English short name" for "Taiwan" is "Taiwan (Province of China)". But then see . Are formatters supposed to enforce this "should"? Will the RFC Production Center enforce it? Best regards, Julian PS: I stumbled over this while looking for the most-used country codes (among which is "China", and putting them into the ISO search form). From nobody Wed Oct 2 05:29:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xml2rfc-dev@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C719E120019 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PtxUyxLdBSMy for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E4C612000F for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2019 05:29:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1570019354; bh=OhQ8Pk4p/AQYN8X5Vid23BnuqGdwzFrdUCGrGxbP8FE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:From:Subject:Date; b=HDhaG9lzyh/BKzh6ep7ZVay+EKCljTASP6BNPmfjkYdzvI59hgxo7nVDJjwrkw11o 3AJubvdyzI85aOhljscTKgBEyrTFyH63MmkWNkOMkx7Znu7lXE1Dyx9IYzglBl7NRi 7B99jdvcghhGSMV23iBXAzktmtkerl02Drs+Y7nc= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MqJm5-1hlYCX1ymh-00nTpA for ; Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:29:14 +0200 To: XML Developer List From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <045519d1-fe3f-88f9-ad04-45257cd1a1a9@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2019 14:29:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:m8izM/gDOgmJhhZxDgAc2bpNpXvILvwYnFyyVLj1X5JgY2HcUPr nOVRelVEkhqdvWJwPaWX5xZf81SMP7ZHFDTL2Wqs7YHyTED9Sr2PGcUUWZp47dLufMnz5Yl 9JwFsFwU+Tp4H4jqK3AjXc4+RywXwznx0LTGFpjxSBV+0V05Wa9Jlhk+k6zRJ1pEdTue7aL JRaW1zpJr5MfymfaRJwgg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:5RTgQNL+r6k=:Fz/M2xpg4XG0fvxiMTopRQ p8+7574Uxv/y8tbr1ChE41WhL+cA8ouFu4iq1K9hw/T+9l0EWkGRpbEnjGK+62JFac85BZHdS E+zXzp7b7nS005qn1SdZozzJSGzIrADuJXSoMi0YLmyVYlI0OE1/Vbq0sqt0hr/AUrSUbIiG8 4x8mtUXWEOaGKhoqJ9fl00fNIB/bZbToXX9tn9N9LpD5ELRjMt+sZeyEO0+VNc6AlMcZA+JIf PT5Ax4duJ1DHd+inYSVw6vRwhhcNl5vJziSDnRfMdIsNW2J/QOC5FgD7A9M72WibNRhb37ipa 3Vji74IjyJlWc0jbmoqWJPXqsCjcF6GiBAF7FNit+kpWm5Gl8sKbiIehY1DWzsE5XKmRaweYb FzqOomi2uMUkNIeeBZM8DDkCybWUeG5RYG4vOWPe7Q9qIyP+i7FZ6SvfpoA/mJCDEmVYCrfpR XEjN8bVE4iGU45fpKbNAHt3qMIz+gR7kDDzOZlnSzQ++pbWchJibKSyhPaCXvKdx3bYQW1W2N 0e7w26fSecZTDwIpnFO34fhYMZkuy1YRE5jPheOYCv6wn9ogbOWuohi7x1BiqjamByZQNCf1U wMRQuqur0jrjkNDX4T3NIHeZhWyMGbVxknaqM4+QSxaBA7cywutrSagddwIMlWHCvpLuIkt2S mkQni6LKN1HtWU5qIzmuwapN8NzLR7/XEtsCysi0MxrCqLdUFRy9in33bTEAGdnc0ePhXFn1y z7OSN033m8qn2NbpR5EgxwN+dKUbiUJIunpGSjJ4q0pR3R3O7acyEx+Ws2rqgVXjFJeJVoNcv SsANXygn5tmiJ4kOpjUGhcybEOTOHriaJ036EscY7FzsK7/Bij4uT3CZ/xjVana0B/iHjZtLC YsvWn7FQlofz+y5Agk7KS2THHgIg1ZBBz/bS/jAFqwIBoIIFJMCjSr1XKy9qnZ7XjsSn+6vzE 6GvIxRKwlXyeWWv0tlqy4MhGP0CvQHhsWYJ7Zo7ot8K/h9f7V2Qz1T0Xhhux3rxey5C76ovBd E8ECnnl6+g2HP2YsAvVe51VtI5d53JPpLyw4SsVyAcbvzP6RwRohYr50IcsfjYzEpQFOVRnt3 bWNp420XeLn7TDqLe9PkD0jQx/hD+5I+5KQ6KIz13/eAWqxJzTajdg2Rd6KBIGbfsfocHPyUo Jd1i71/5RfTFgkNx/1Knl6qFKXWg9/MYTixzMm/NU7rwWGP97axPJFqylRr3lo5bsxV0JHctE p4CmcJ72l0ZJhJirUoKWmhmawc/MpK6okRBtzKznw66Pme6+odfJHrKbYM0o= Archived-At: Subject: [xml2rfc-dev] text rendering for