From nobody Thu Feb 16 12:01:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC721296C8; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:01:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u7brmvFkhM-Q; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CA5512941A; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v1GK0jNi025345 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:00:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Magnus Westerlund" Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:00:44 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5344) Archived-At: Cc: "avtext@ietf.org" , IETF AVTCore WG Subject: Re: [avtext] Proposed charter for merger of AVTCORE and AVTEXT into AVT X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:01:03 -0000 Hi AVTCORE and AVTEXT: Since we had support for this in previous discussion, and unless I missed something, no objections to the charter text below, I'm going to schedule this for the next available IESG telechat. Hopefully we can complete this before Chicago. Please note that, from a tools perspective, it looks like the easiest thing will be to keep the AVTCORE name for the combined group. That will keep the post-split history of the AVTCORE work, and we can put a link to the history for AVTEXT. Going back to AVT would favor ancient pre-split history, and force people to follow links to find any recent history. Thanks! Ben. On 31 Jan 2017, at 3:42, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > WGs, > > Below you find the chairs and ADs proposal for an AVT WG charter, > covering the work currently done by AVTCORE and AVTEXT WG. If you have > any issues, suggestions or other proposals, please provide them no > later than the 14th of February. > > > Charter text > ------------ > > The Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) along with its associated > profiles and payload formats provides for real-time transmission of > audio and video over unicast and multicast transports. RTP is widely > implemented, and deployed for a wide range of applications, ranging > from telephony to television over IP. RTP itself has been shepherded > to Full Standard. Its associated profiles, extensions, and payload > formats are currently at various levels of standards maturity. As new > applications have emerged, the need for guidelines for the use of the > RTP/RTCP protocols and extensions specific to those applications has > been identified. > > The AVT working group is chartered to maintain the core RTP/RTCP > specifications and the AVP, SAVP, AVPF, and SAVPF profiles. The group > will provide architectural guidance for extending the protocols and > guidelines for their proper use. While other working groups are > chartered to work on RTCP Extended Report Extensions (XRBLOCK) and RTP > Payload Formats (PAYLOAD), extensions that are generally applicable > will be developed in AVT. The AVT working group is also charted to > develop application-specific guidelines for the use of RTP/RTCP > protocols with the AVP, SAVP, AVPF, and SAVPF profiles, and extensions > to those protocols that are driven by application-specific needs. > > The AVT working group will coordinate closely with the Security Area > while working on maintenance and enhancements to the SRTP Profile > (SAVP). > > ---- End of Charter Text > > Milestone that exist in either of the groups will be moved to the AVT > WG. > > -- > > Magnus Westerlund > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Feb 23 06:10:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F566129869 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 06:10:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fYIz2uAjo798 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 06:10:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC62A129697 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 06:09:59 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-eabff70000002c77-af-58aeed340ae1 Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.66]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D6.27.11383.43DEEA85; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:09:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.319.2; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:09:56 +0100 To: "avtext@ietf.org" From: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 15:09:55 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbHdSdfs7boIg2nPeCw+3rvB6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujP175jIXzFOo+P7mFXsD4yHJLkZODgkBE4nV+zvZuhi5OIQE 1jFK/Hr3gRHCWc4oMePxZCaQKhEBdYk70y+wgdhsAhYSN380gtnCAjYSMy/+ZwGxeQXsJQ7M +M7axcjBwSKgKnF+eTVIWFQgRmJv/30miBJBiZMzn7CAlDADlT/YWgYSZhaQl2jeOpsZxBYS 0JZoaOpgncDIOwtJxyyEjllIOhYwMq9iFC1OLU7KTTcy0kstykwuLs7P08tLLdnECAybg1t+ G+xgfPnc8RCjAAejEg9v4fK1EUKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEeBe/WBchxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sak1p8 iFGag0VJnNds5f1wIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA6O3YdDZe86zaq+fmGU391XX7L5XhzMy ZVLfMe25MH3VIg2X4KJ+zyNan46eV7g7gzu8pXrWg3K1z95iZZ8WPslO0F4cflo20Hxr0PXi mR3G10Sn19xfYj5t/1TblQ7+a4MrfqUnl95Yu2P51C0moRe0/iVvkdFfVrqfu6lu88oPT+tr Dp45xiKuxFKckWioxVxUnAgAMafnpBcCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [avtext] AUTH48 change in draft-ietf-avtext-avpf-ccm-layered X-BeenThere: avtext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Extensions working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:10:01 -0000 WG, The authors have found in a questionable sentence when doing our AUTH48 reviews. In Section 5, below copied in the form edited by the RFC-Editor. The sentence in question from paragraph 2 is: In such a scenario, it is potentially, though not necessarily, counterproductive to send a decoder refresh point on all RTP streams using that payload format and SSRC. The issue with the above is that the this doesn't correctly considers Mult-stream transport (MSST and MSMT). Thus, we suggest to change this to: In such a scenario, it is potentially, though not necessarily, counterproductive to send a decoder refresh point on all layers for that payload format and media source. Thus, changing "all RTP streams" to "all layers" and "SSRC" to "media source". This encompasses all the cases we can consider. Any concerns with this change? Unless we hear something blocking this by the 2nd of March, we will continue with publication. 5. Identifying the Use of Layered Bitstreams (Informative) The above modifications to RFC 5104 unambiguously define how to deal with FIR when layered bitstreams are in use. However, it is surprisingly difficult to identify the use of a layered bitstream. In general, it is expected that implementers know when layered bitstreams (in its commonly understood sense: with inter-layer prediction between pyramid-arranged layers) are in use and when not and can therefore implement the above updates to RFC 5104 correctly. However, there are scenarios in which layered codecs are employed creating non-pyramid-shaped bitstreams. Those scenarios may be viewed as somewhat exotic today but clearly are supported by certain video coding syntaxes, such as H.264/SVC. When blindly applying the above rules to those non-pyramid-arranged layering structures, suboptimal system behavior would result. Nothing would break, and there would not be an interoperability failure, but the user experience may suffer through the sending or receiving of decoder refresh points at times or on parts of the bitstream that are unnecessary from a user experience viewpoint. Therefore, this informative section is included that provides the current understanding of when a layered bitstream is in use and when not. The key observation made here is that the RTP payload format negotiated for the RTP streams, in isolation, is not necessarily an indicator for the use of a layered bitstream. Some layered codecs (including H.264/SVC) can form decodable bitstreams including only (one or more) enhancement layers, without the base layer, effectively creating simulcastable sub-bitstreams within a single scalable bitstream (as defined in the video coding standard), but without inter-layer prediction. In such a scenario, it is potentially, though not necessarily, counterproductive to send a decoder refresh point on all RTP streams using that payload format and SSRC. It is beyond the scope of this document to discuss optimized reactions to FIRs received on RTP streams carrying such exotic bitstreams. One good indication of the likely use of pyramid-shaped layering with inter-layer prediction is when the various RTP streams are "bound" together on the signaling level. In an SDP environment, this would be the case if they are marked as being dependent on each other using "The Session Description Protocol (SDP) Grouping Framework" [RFC5888] and layer dependency [RFC5583]. Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Services, Media and Network features, Ericsson Research EAB/TXM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Feb 27 03:31:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: avtext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857B0129DDE for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 03:31:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, 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([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Mon, 27 Feb 2017 19:31:13 +0800 From: Roni Even To: Magnus Westerlund , "avtext@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [avtext] AUTH48 change in draft-ietf-avtext-avpf-ccm-layered Thread-Index: AQHSjd6QNoHQcTmfT0++/DYNJ8LzRKF8vZ7Q Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:31:11 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD776C3C@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.201.150] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.58B40E07.028E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.117, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 8ed8481d92356004ad5193d7de94299f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [avtext] AUTH48 change in 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