From nobody Fri Dec 1 08:45:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A501205F0 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:45:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SENWy1TU--Mf for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 467D5126E7A for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:45:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB1GjQh6026726; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:45:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from wangari.tzi.org (p508A45B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.138.69.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ypKrj5lszzDXcb; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:45:25 +0100 (CET) From: Olaf Bergmann To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Carsten Bormann , Szymon Sasin , Oleg Smirnov , "core\@ietf.org WG" References: <76F043CB-0D03-4F72-8D67-3BF6F2F2F34A@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:45:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Hannes Tschofenig's message of "Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:23:44 +0000") Message-ID: <87shcu4ct6.fsf@tzi.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over TCP/TLS Online Interop Testing (Dec2017) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:45:32 -0000 Hannes Tschofenig writes: > I only used this first Doodle poll to find out who is interested and > available on what days. Then, I would narrow down the time. > I would think that 3 hours should/could be enough. I have just restarted the server on test.libcoap.net for those who are interested in testing in advance. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe Olaf From nobody Fri Dec 1 14:37:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C17126BFD; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:37:22 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151216784198.7518.7747152279972313091@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:37:22 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-comi-02.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 22:37:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoAP Management Interface Authors : Michel Veillette Peter van der Stok Alexander Pelov Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-core-comi-02.txt Pages : 56 Date : 2017-12-01 Abstract: This document describes a network management interface for constrained devices and networks, called CoAP Management Interface (CoMI). The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP) is used to access datastore and data node resources specified in YANG, or SMIv2 converted to YANG. CoMI uses the YANG to CBOR mapping and converts YANG identifier strings to numeric identifiers for payload size reduction. CoMI extends the set of YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to manage constrained devices and networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-comi/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-comi-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 1 14:40:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A0812426E; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:40:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151216804224.7361.8847219964416543304@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:40:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-sid-03.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 22:40:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Schema Item iDentifier (SID) Authors : Michel Veillette Alexander Pelov Filename : draft-ietf-core-sid-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2017-12-01 Abstract: YANG Schema Item iDentifiers (SID) are globally unique 64-bit unsigned numbers used to identify YANG items. This document defines the semantics, the registration, and assignment processes of SIDs. To enable the implementation of these processes, this document also defines a file format used to persist and publish assigned SIDs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-sid/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-sid-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Dec 2 14:09:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99397126C22 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 14:09:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7uzemQg8VQi6 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 14:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 213091241F3 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 14:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (50.252.25.182) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 14:08:07 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Hannes Tschofenig' , 'Carsten Bormann' CC: 'Szymon Sasin' , 'Oleg Smirnov' , References: <76F043CB-0D03-4F72-8D67-3BF6F2F2F34A@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 14:09:16 -0800 Message-ID: <03f901d36bba$33dc48c0$9b94da40$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIpT1mhoh7W753Yr4nGIoEPFMIlyAKozHOWAtcyf2yiWNWSYA== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [50.252.25.182] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over TCP/TLS Online Interop Testing (Dec2017) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 22:09:29 -0000 Time makes a big difference to me as to availability. The 9 hour time = difference between here and Europe can be fun at times. -----Original Message----- From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 5:24 AM To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Szymon Sasin ; Oleg Smirnov = ; core@ietf.org WG Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over TCP/TLS Online Interop Testing (Dec2017) Hi Carsten, I only used this first Doodle poll to find out who is interested and = available on what days. Then, I would narrow down the time. I would think that 3 hours should/could be enough. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] Sent: 30 November 2017 14:22 To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: core@ietf.org WG; Szymon Sasin; Oleg Smirnov Subject: Re: [core] CoAP over TCP/TLS Online Interop Testing (Dec2017) On Nov 30, 2017, at 12:44, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: > > Hi all, > > Based on the promising interop testing work at the IETF#100 Hackathon = of CoAP over TCP/TLS by various folks from the CORE group I am = suggesting to get together for online interop testing in December. To = find one (or multiple) dates I put a Doodle poll together. Please enter = the dates that are most suitable for you: > https://doodle.com/poll/nkwwc29rkzpw8p53 Thanks for proposing dates. The doodle poll has full days. I have indicated when I=E2=80=99m available for much of the day, but of = course there are some interruptions. Do you expect us to spend a whole day? =E2=80=9CDay=E2=80=9D in which = timezone? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > Ciao > Hannes > > PS: I added Szymon & Oleg from our team, who have been working on the = implementation at ARM. > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Sat Dec 2 15:11:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566AB12783A for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:11:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVSKeGCl3uPN for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CF14126557 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (192.168.0.11) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:09:55 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' , 'Hannes Tschofenig' CC: 'Hannes Tschofenig' , References: <2ab07f35-0f28-c33e-2345-6d8125a0ce43@gmx.net> <8CF8E49A-0EAF-481A-A589-2A00634562D4@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <8CF8E49A-0EAF-481A-A589-2A00634562D4@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:11:04 -0800 Message-ID: <040201d36bc2$d5fb4cc0$81f1e640$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGRbElmUqop936soToFdIU6viwCYwJA5Zivo6KlbQA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.0.11] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Connection ID X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 23:11:16 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 9:55 AM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Hannes Tschofenig ; core@ietf.org WG = Subject: Re: [core] Connection ID On Nov 20, 2017, at 15:17, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > some of you may have missed the TLS WG meeting last week where we had=20 > a discussion about the Connection ID. The slides can be found at=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/100/materials/slides-100-tls-sess > a-connection-id/ > and the draft itself is here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-tls-dtls-connection-id-02 >=20 > I am bringing this to your attention since there have been several=20 > discussions about problems with expired NAT bindings and DTLS on this=20 > mailing list. >=20 > Here is the good news: the TLS WG meeting participants expressed=20 > strong consensus to adopt this work. >=20 > We are planning to advance the work rapidly given the urgency. There=20 > are open issues, which we plan to address in the next couple of weeks. = > Then, we would like to do an online interop test. If you have an=20 > implementation please drop me a private mail. >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 > PS: Note that the latest DTLS 1.3 spec now includes an optimized=20 > record layer format, which can be used with the connection ID draft.=20 > This leads to a smaller per packet overhead. This is all very good. RFC 7252 still says: The following rules are added for matching an Acknowledgement message or Reset message to a Confirmable message, or a Reset message to a Non-confirmable message: The DTLS session MUST be the same, and the epoch MUST be the same. Apparently, we need to relax the rule about the epoch. Should we just strike this part, or is there going to be a weaker rule? [JLS] I would say that the session might need to be the same, but I am = not sure. Something that connects the sessions would be required so say = that the sessions are the same (hello connection id?). The epoch should = be able to change w/o a problem. Jim Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten _______________________________________________ core mailing list core@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Sat Dec 2 15:15:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB13012783A for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:15:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NNee0B_B39yU for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9FF8126557 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (192.168.0.11) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:13:51 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: =?UTF-8?Q?'Jaime_Jim=C3=A9nez'?= , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:15:00 -0800 Message-ID: <040301d36bc3$622011e0$266035a0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0404_01D36B80.53FD4710" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQELOOdJVykR3w+ToZWre1gILEoiCqTBFN0A Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [192.168.0.11] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-tilo?= =?utf-8?q?ca-core-multicast-oscoap?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 23:15:11 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0404_01D36B80.53FD4710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe that this work needs to be done. Yes adopt it =20 From: core [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jaime = Jim=C3=A9nez Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 8:59 AM To: core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org) Cc: ji-ye.park@uni-due.de Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Call for Adoption on = draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap =20 Dear all,=20 =20 The draft on "Secure group communication for CoAP" ( = draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap = ) had = in room consensus for adoption during IETF99 already, now we are clear = to confirm it on the mailing list.=20 =20 Please reply to the list with your comments, including although not = limited to whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are = especially encouraged to comment. =20 Target to end the WGA is 14th of December. =20 Ciao, - - Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0404_01D36B80.53FD4710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe = that this work needs to be done. =C2=A0Yes adopt it

 

From: core = [mailto:core-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jaime = Jim=C3=A9nez
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 8:59 = AM
To: core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org) = <core@ietf.org>
Cc: = ji-ye.park@uni-due.de
Subject: [core] 🔔 WG = Call for Adoption on = draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap

 

Dear all, =

 

The draft on "Secure group communication for = CoAP" ( = draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap ) had in room consensus for = adoption during IETF99 already, now we are clear to confirm it on the = mailing list. 

 

Please reply to the list with your comments, including = although not limited to whether or not you support adoption. = Non-authors are especially encouraged to = comment.

 

Target to end the WGA is 14th of = December.

 

Ciao,

- - Jaime = Jim=C3=A9nez

 

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[108.201.184.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d141sm5565285oih.57.2017.12.04.05.50.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Dec 2017 05:50:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Koster Message-Id: <1893AB2B-E540-4D34-8393-DF90F86A4142@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AFE78D5E-D979-4525-B01D-66E8C11955F0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 05:50:37 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , "ji-ye.park@uni-due.de" To: =?utf-8?Q?Jaime_Jim=C3=A9nez?= References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Call_for_Adoption_on_draft-tilo?= =?utf-8?q?ca-core-multicast-oscoap?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 13:50:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AFE78D5E-D979-4525-B01D-66E8C11955F0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +1 I support adoption of draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap = by the = CoRE Working Group. Michael Koster > On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez = wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > The draft on "Secure group communication for CoAP" ( = draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap = ) had = in room consensus for adoption during IETF99 already, now we are clear = to confirm it on the mailing list.=20 >=20 > Please reply to the list with your comments, including although not = limited to whether or not you support adoption. Non-authors are = especially encouraged to comment. >=20 > Target to end the WGA is 14th of December. >=20 > Ciao, > - - Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_AFE78D5E-D979-4525-B01D-66E8C11955F0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 +1

I = support adoption of  draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap by the CoRE = Working Group.

Michael= Koster

On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:59 AM, Jaime Jim=C3=A9ne= z <jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com> wrote:

Dear all,

The draft on "Secure group communication for CoAP" = ( draft-tiloca-core-multicast-oscoap ) had in room = consensus for adoption during IETF99 already, now we are clear to confirm it on the mailing list. 

Please reply to the list with your comments, including = although not limited to whether or not you support adoption. = Non-authors are especially encouraged to comment.

Target to end the WGA is 14th of December.

Ciao,
- - Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez

_______________________________________________
core = mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

= --Apple-Mail=_AFE78D5E-D979-4525-B01D-66E8C11955F0-- From nobody Wed Dec 6 02:10:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420F11271FD for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:10:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kb7cUyuYe10E for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:10:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net [194.109.24.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC6851242F7 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:199]) by smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id MWePeV3ennIXbMWePecYhP; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 11:10:02 +0100 Received: from 2001:983:a264:1:ede3:a997:71f5:877 by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 11:10:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 11:10:01 +0100 From: peter van der Stok To: Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfNR+GHIs1PEjfMxDHoLm0gQrm8c4WO3oSDT2k72+Mlc+OApFJFTmqMB4zy8ECEy/fcPFDjGuLF7IFve/KGlBGzvw9US76lWnuRqp0cZo4f2PwA6rH9XZ iWPHkHmvw5zvqqPmakXpPbS63P6XLmJZ9nAOXZXWGFvBriX6zTOisXqIFWLBHXRTASY0Qe3nrL5Kip1AdJQ9vWvlwtaUfBSPGOE= Archived-At: Subject: [core] WGLC core-object-security-07 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:10:07 -0000 Hi all, I have read this document and found it well structured and comprehensible. I do have some suggestions and questions. Apologies if the the subjects below have already been discussed on the ML. My interest in this document is quite recent. Abstract: The abstract is intended for naive readers like me; and some text can be improved. To my understanding this document specifies "the transport of secured data with CoAP or HTTP". There is no phrase in the abstract which covers this. It might be helpful to state that the distribution and generation of keys is out of scope. IMO end-to-end encryption is a bit terse for naive people. A phrase about proxies would be nice. The last phrase "OSCORE may ... draft." can be removed. It is an aspect treated later in the text, and now creates the impression to be the main reason for this document. 1 Introduction; The abstractions coap message layer and coap request/response layer are used. The discussions about coap over tcp taught me that these abstractions are very differently interpreted by different people. A more concrete statement about coap payload and coap headers will be more informative. What is an "in-layer security protocol"? This statement generates more questions than its absence will. State that the "Oject-security option" is new and defined in this document. The text "OSCORE provides protection of message payload... Figure1" is really difficult to understand. Problems for me are: Not knowing what a message is, difference between OSCORE payload and coap payload, and others. With little extra effort this can be described more concretely. I suggest to just describe figure 1 which is clearer than the text. 3 Security Context. The text restricts itself to AEAD algorithms. COSE allows many more. I can imagine that in some installations, only one context per server is needed. In that case, the Additional Data can be empty. Is it possible to extend the choice of algorithms to all COSE (and future ones) and point out that transmitting the context identifier necessitates an AEAD algorithm? The text suggests that the derivation of the keys is done independently in client and server. Is it not possible to distribute derived keys with other mechanisms? (oauth-authz is mentioned later). In 3.2 the text says that input parameters may be pre-established. Additional text pointing out the current possibilities and their consequences would be welcome to me. 4 protected message fields. Again, what is a (coap, Oscore) message? Most of the text is about Inner and Outer message fields. IMO Figure 5 should be expressed in those two aspects. Integrity protected coap options does not exist to-day, but its eventual presence is treated as main focus. This is a bit confusing especially as letter "I" could stand for Inner and Integrity. I found the separation of inner and outer Max-age confusing: Is it not better to add a new option: cache-age? Also the outer block option is confusing. I understand the block option to be an end-to-end option, and to be no concern of intermediate routers, bridges or proxies. The block option should be used by client and server with knowledge about transmitted packet (datagram) size. If packet size data are wrong, other means of fragmentation are possible and these are outside the coap end-to-end security scope. 8 OSCORE compression. If I understand correctly, the compression removes CBOR tags which are self-evident. Could that motivation be added; Once I realized that aspect, the section became much clearer. Thanks for all your work; Hope this helps. Nice document, Peter -- Peter van der Stok vanderstok consultancy mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org www: www.vanderstok.org tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 From nobody Sat Dec 9 08:10:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F04129353 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2017 08:10:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jpaXSipZuqPB for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2017 08:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net 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2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FEC128656 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:54:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ioSr3qeVKPy2 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DC8B126B7E for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:54:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:52:59 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:54:11 -0800 Message-ID: <01b801d37382$fcc83bc0$f658b340$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdNzgscm2QoJ1sBFTLiKSD2ljxZIow== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:54:24 -0000 I have just sat down to try and get my BERT support working correctly (and clean up some block transfer bugs at the same time), and I have a question about signaling support for BERT. The document has the following two ways to signal BERT. 1. Use the SZX value of 7, presumably as part of a an early request to signal that it is supported. 2. The use of the Block-wise transfer capability option combined w/ the Max-Message-Size Option. Questions: 1. The following sequence of events occurs Signal - Max-Message-Size=3+K, Block-wise Transfer Signal - Max-Message-Size=1152 Signal - Max-Message-Size=3+K At the end of the sequence is the block-wise transfer capability still enabled or not? The text says that step two in this sequence indicates that it is no longer supported but I question that this is the intent. I think it means that you can't do it not that it is no longer supported and thus step three would re-able it. 2. If I send an SZ value of 7 as part of an early request, is this an indicator for the channel as a whole or only for the specific request? Jim From nobody Tue Dec 12 12:15:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C059129521 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:15:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2gb5d5qMSyYi for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 090CD1294CF for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:15:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBCKF8vm016212; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:15:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.124] (p5DC7F151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.241.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yx9zc3SBnzDXBR; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:15:08 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <01b801d37382$fcc83bc0$f658b340$@augustcellars.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:15:06 +0100 Cc: core@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 534802506.578821-e755439386ce4c9e8af968a12bed3470 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <01b801d37382$fcc83bc0$f658b340$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:15:50 -0000 Hi Jim, thank you for the feedback. Those =E2=80=9Cquestions from the implementers=E2=80=9D are always very = useful. > On Dec 12, 2017, at 20:54, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > I have just sat down to try and get my BERT support working correctly = (and > clean up some block transfer bugs at the same time), and I have a = question > about signaling support for BERT. >=20 > The document has the following two ways to signal BERT. >=20 > 1. Use the SZX value of 7, presumably as part of a an early request to > signal that it is supported. > 2. The use of the Block-wise transfer capability option combined w/ = the > Max-Message-Size Option. >=20 >=20 > Questions:=20 >=20 > 1. The following sequence of events occurs >=20 > Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K, Block-wise Transfer > Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D1152 > Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K >=20 > At the end of the sequence is the block-wise transfer capability still > enabled or not? =20 Yes. 5.3 says: Both capability and setting options are cumulative. A CSM does not invalidate a previously sent capability indication or setting even if it is not repeated. A capability message without any option is a no- operation (and can be used as such). An option that is sent might override a previous value for the same option. The option defines how to handle this case if needed. > The text says that step two in this sequence indicates that > it is no longer supported Where? > but I question that this is the intent. I think > it means that you can't do it not that it is no longer supported and = thus > step three would re-able it. >=20 > 2. If I send an SZ value of 7 as part of an early request, is this an > indicator for the channel as a whole or only for the specific request? This is for the specific request. (For the channel, it is useful to know max-message-size in order to know = whether BERT makes sense. For a specific request, a requester can indicate in this way that it = would prefer BERT, but there is no way to say =E2=80=9CI have a = max-message-size of 129 KiB, but for this request, 16 KiB blocks would = be the bee=E2=80=99s knees...) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Dec 12 12:34:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86118129540 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:34:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vIUGZMVRvxQU for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF19612726E for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:34:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:32:46 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' CC: References: <01b801d37382$fcc83bc0$f658b340$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:33:59 -0800 Message-ID: <01ca01d37388$8bd895d0$a389c170$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEmFSkSa74Kj5/8XAKMPE8P+0EFTwE5ADM9pJEdjIA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:34:10 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 12:15 PM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > thank you for the feedback. > Those =E2=80=9Cquestions from the implementers=E2=80=9D are always = very useful. >=20 > > On Dec 12, 2017, at 20:54, Jim Schaad = wrote: > > > > I have just sat down to try and get my BERT support working = correctly > > (and clean up some block transfer bugs at the same time), and I have = a > > question about signaling support for BERT. > > > > The document has the following two ways to signal BERT. > > > > 1. Use the SZX value of 7, presumably as part of a an early request = to > > signal that it is supported. > > 2. The use of the Block-wise transfer capability option combined w/ > > the Max-Message-Size Option. > > > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. The following sequence of events occurs > > > > Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K, Block-wise Transfer Signal - > > Max-Message-Size=3D1152 Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K > > > > At the end of the sequence is the block-wise transfer capability = still > > enabled or not? >=20 > Yes. 5.3 says: >=20 > Both capability and setting options are cumulative. A CSM does not > invalidate a previously sent capability indication or setting even = if > it is not repeated. A capability message without any option is a = no- > operation (and can be used as such). An option that is sent might > override a previous value for the same option. The option defines > how to handle this case if needed. >=20 >=20 > > The text says that step two in this sequence indicates that it is no > > longer supported The text in section 5.3.2 states: Subsequently, if the Max-Message-Size Option is indicated with a value equal to or less than 1152, BERT support is no longer indicated. To me that says I should go into an unknown state. >=20 > Where? >=20 > > but I question that this is the intent. I think it means that you > > can't do it not that it is no longer supported and thus step three > > would re-able it. > > > > 2. If I send an SZ value of 7 as part of an early request, is this = an > > indicator for the channel as a whole or only for the specific = request? >=20 > This is for the specific request. Good, that was my guess, but was not sure.=20 Jim >=20 > (For the channel, it is useful to know max-message-size in order to = know > whether BERT makes sense. > For a specific request, a requester can indicate in this way that it = would prefer > BERT, but there is no way to say =E2=80=9CI have a max-message-size of = 129 KiB, but for > this request, 16 KiB blocks would be the bee=E2=80=99s knees...) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Dec 12 12:53:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B896E12726E for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:53:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7GxSmyiYMOfe for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA69E1201F8 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:52:12 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' CC: References: <01b801d37382$fcc83bc0$f658b340$@augustcellars.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:53:26 -0800 Message-ID: <01cb01d3738b$433ac610$c9b05230$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEmFSkSa74Kj5/8XAKMPE8P+0EFTwE5ADM9pJEjoKA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:53:36 -0000 Rereading the section again I just noticed that I was totally misreading = it. For some reason I was reading it as supports BERT not supports = block-wise transfer. Sorry. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 12:15 PM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] Signaling of BERT in TLS draft >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > thank you for the feedback. > Those =E2=80=9Cquestions from the implementers=E2=80=9D are always = very useful. >=20 > > On Dec 12, 2017, at 20:54, Jim Schaad = wrote: > > > > I have just sat down to try and get my BERT support working = correctly > > (and clean up some block transfer bugs at the same time), and I have = a > > question about signaling support for BERT. > > > > The document has the following two ways to signal BERT. > > > > 1. Use the SZX value of 7, presumably as part of a an early request = to > > signal that it is supported. > > 2. The use of the Block-wise transfer capability option combined w/ > > the Max-Message-Size Option. > > > > > > Questions: > > > > 1. The following sequence of events occurs > > > > Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K, Block-wise Transfer Signal - > > Max-Message-Size=3D1152 Signal - Max-Message-Size=3D3+K > > > > At the end of the sequence is the block-wise transfer capability = still > > enabled or not? >=20 > Yes. 5.3 says: >=20 > Both capability and setting options are cumulative. A CSM does not > invalidate a previously sent capability indication or setting even = if > it is not repeated. A capability message without any option is a = no- > operation (and can be used as such). An option that is sent might > override a previous value for the same option. The option defines > how to handle this case if needed. >=20 >=20 > > The text says that step two in this sequence indicates that it is no > > longer supported >=20 > Where? >=20 > > but I question that this is the intent. I think it means that you > > can't do it not that it is no longer supported and thus step three > > would re-able it. > > > > 2. If I send an SZ value of 7 as part of an early request, is this = an > > indicator for the channel as a whole or only for the specific = request? >=20 > This is for the specific request. >=20 > (For the channel, it is useful to know max-message-size in order to = know > whether BERT makes sense. > For a specific request, a requester can indicate in this way that it = would prefer > BERT, but there is no way to say =E2=80=9CI have a max-message-size of = 129 KiB, but for > this request, 16 KiB blocks would be the bee=E2=80=99s knees...) >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Dec 13 03:50:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28251270A7; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:50:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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--_000_DB6P121MB0038BC4D9CB5198A75E9C14C9B350DB6P121MB0038EURP_-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 00:41:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51D2126CC4 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:41:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LElmpRZzAmf3 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:41:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C2E21201F8 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 00:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:213]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id PP4vebzKkbYqmPP4ve3810; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:41:18 +0100 Received: from 2001:983:a264:1:edf1:704:20b9:e19d by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:41:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:41:17 +0100 From: peter van der Stok To: =?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran_Selander?= Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, Core Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5328968a93a1fed15d804c4827beb835@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHZfXuQriY3VtU35ylikkuDuuvPeYs0iqGo9kOzjz739qlkFWH2xhaIukC51Kp0yebpX9NEw7ugKuh7x9z3Jab0ht6QAWIc8gA7Bhch5rsPWq1aYumv/ Ff1/A0nrQCEyuu5ygGuVOxCQaUy3nWxoQhEHxbPTP5/g0khTfXa17JL3JE8h9H8NdfK2F/GECaxBhV8HCFx8dnqj2ZQ07QmO6zdReXmvo5amzzLraPUVXOCa eXykpMQ4W5Wu8zzZKzUWDQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] WGLC core-object-security-07 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:41:25 -0000 Hi Goran, thanks for you reaction; some late clarifications of my comments below. > abstract, since part of the CoAP message remains unchanged through the > OSCORE transformation so it is not a clean cut "transport with CoAP”. May be: "Application layer security addition to http and coap transport" > >> It might be helpful to state that the distribution and generation of >> keys is out of scope. > > [GS] It was not entirely clear to me what "distribution and generation > of > keys” refers to. There is always a need to introduce some initial keys > - > that is unavoidable and seems redundant to remark. The remark is not about the necessity of the initial keys but on the fact tat the draft does not specify it. I like it when drafts clearly specify their scope. (especially in the abstract) > > Then there may be TTP-assisted key distribution (like ACE), or the use > of > a key exchange protocol to get an OSCORE master key in place. If that > is > what you refer to, Indeed then I can agree we could give make clear that it is > out of scope earlier in the document but perhaps better in the section > 1 > rather than in the abstract? both? >> >> 1 Introduction; >> The abstractions coap message layer and coap request/response layer >> are >> used. The discussions about coap over tcp taught me that these >> abstractions are very differently interpreted by different people. A >> more concrete statement about coap payload and coap headers will be >> more >> informative. > > [GS] These abstractions are used in the Introduction to avoid going > into > which CoAP headers are protected, which is done later in the document. > Perhaps a forward reference to relevant sections would be sufficient? > Also, the description of how CoAP works above Figure 1 gives a high > level > explanation of how CoAP payload, options and header fields are handled > (again, this part can be made more clear). Abstractions are always difficult. Once found they are obvious. My impression was that with few words you could define your own abstractions that will inherit less confusion than the coap layers do. > > >> What is an "in-layer security protocol"? This statement generates more >> questions than its absence will. > > [GS] I agree that the term may be confusing and we should probably > remove > it. Here is anyway the rationale for the term: > > OSCORE is an extension to CoAP which protects the CoAP message and > replaces the original CoAP message with a modified CoAP message (the > OSCORE message). In this sense, it does not depend on any other layer > in > the stack, which in turn enables the independence of underlying layers > and > support for CoAP proxy operations etc.. We need to make this part > clear, > but we don’t need to use the term “in-layer”. I agree that I would never have guessed the semantics of in-layer as described above. > >> >> State that the "Oject-security option" is new and defined in this >> document. > > [GS] It is stated that: > > "The use of OSCORE is signaled with the Object-Security CoAP option or > HTTP header, defined in Section 2 and Section 10.2.” > > Is it the word “new” you are missing? Yes, that's all. > > > But when we extended the scope the HTTP, we removed the explicit > mentioning of ‘CoAP’ in “CoAP message”, with the assumption that > "message" > could be either "CoAP message" or "HTTP message”. > > Likewise there used to be a sentence explaining that the OSCORE message > is > indeed a CoAP message, but that seems also have been lost in the > ambition > of explaining how it works with CoAP and HTTP at the same time. I need > to > think about what is best, either reverting and discuss the HTTP part > separate or adding "CoAP/HTTP” before message. Defining them will be enough and does not cost much in words. > >> With little extra effort this can be described more concretely. >> I suggest to just describe figure 1 which is clearer than the text. > > [GS] Yes, let’s add that too. Adding? replacing is more concise? > >> >> 3 Security Context. >> The text restricts itself to AEAD algorithms. COSE allows many more. >> I >> can imagine that in some installations, only one context per server is >> needed. In that case, the Additional Data can be empty. > > [GS] I didn’t understand this part of the comment. IMU the AEAD restriction was needed because there is additional data to be protected against tampering. That concerns the not yet existing options and the kid, etc data. When these data are not needed (no confusion to select because only one connection exists) the AEAD restriction was not needed; and therefore the AEAD restriction is not a MUST but a recommendation for most use cases. > >> Is it possible >> to extend the choice of algorithms to all COSE (and future ones) and >> point out that transmitting the context identifier necessitates an >> AEAD >> algorithm? > > [GS] Same question as above, what are the use cases for the COSE > objects > not already mentioned? Since different COSE objects assume different > security contexts and different processing steps we didn’t try to cover > them all in one specification. Should additional COSE objects be needed > we > could make an extension (e.g. using the OSCORE flag byte as an > extension > point.) Possibly, I'm making a point about nothing, and can new algorithms always be added to OSCORE. The current text creates the impression that this is not possible. > > >> 4 protected message fields. > >> Integrity protected coap options does not exist to-day, but its >> eventual >> presence is treated as main focus. > > [GS] I would not say Class I options are main focus, but they require > special processing and anticipating their usefulness (see example > above) > we wanted to include their processing in the specification. The text surface about Class I is really large compared to its use. > >> I found the separation of inner and outer Max-age confusing: Is it not >> better to add a new option: cache-age? > > [GS] Sorry, I didn’t understand what is confusing and why a new option > would be better. > > we can use the inner option to communicate with the endpoint. For the > endpoint we use Max-Age in the usual way, for a proxy we use Max-age to > avoid unnecessary caching. Exactly my point; the semantics are different, but they have the same name, and Max_age is defined for inner in 7252. > > >> Also the outer block option is confusing. I understand the block >> option >> to be an end-to-end option, and to be no concern of intermediate >> routers, bridges or proxies. The block option should be used by client >> and server with knowledge about transmitted packet (datagram) size. If >> packet size data are wrong, other means of fragmentation are possible >> and these are outside the coap end-to-end security scope. > > > [GS] Your understanding is entirely correct. However, we need to > describe > outer block processing to the extent it has an impact on the OSCORE > processing. Since proxies may perform block processing on OSCORE > messages, > a recipient may receive a fragment (block) of an OSCORE message, and > thus > first need to wait for the remaining blocks before processing the > OSCORE > message. > > This is in contrast to other CoAP processing which comes after OSCORE > has > verified and decrypted the message. Outer block is thus an exception, > which is visible in the processing steps, see e.g. section 7.2, but we > should highlight that better in the description about the outer block > option. Right, and where and how are these new block options generated? in routers? or does this necessitate an extension to coap proxy specifications? Greetings, thanks for your explanations, Peter From nobody Thu Dec 14 03:42:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8026B128BB6; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:42:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yMoqYfjTcWHl; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (prometheus.amsuess.com [5.9.147.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35B02128B90; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (095129206250.cust.akis.net [95.129.206.250]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C0A44779F; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:42:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [10.13.13.231]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3050139; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:42:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D26F539; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:42:07 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 17482 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:42:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:42:06 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: draft-ietf-core-links-json@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171214114204.GA31455@hephaistos> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: [core] links-json: target resolution in presence of anchors / RFC8288 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:42:16 -0000 --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello links-json authors, there is a discrepancy between the Link Format described in RFC6690 and the Link header described in RFC8288 (formerly 5988bis). Take the example this line obtained from a resource : ;rel=3D"x";anchor=3D"http://external-host/" If this is sent in an RFC6690 document, it means ;rel=3D"x";anchor=3D"http://external-host/" but if it is sent in an RFC8288 header, it means ;rel=3D"x";anchor=3D"http://external-host/" On the formal side, this means that some statements can not be expressed in RFC6690 link format without knowledge of where the resource is served from. This is detrimental when describing links in an (esp. statically configured) collection to describe members using outside anchors. On the practical side, this leads to implementations doing the resolution wrong because none of the documents points out that there is a difference. On the social side, this results in many questions about link resolutions, and us CoRE people teaching ways that are not applicable to the rest of the web linking world. This point is especially relevant to links-json given it aims to be usable in the regular web world too. Please include a statement as to which of the interpretations is applied to JSON and CBOR link format documents. I strongly recommend to take up the interpretation of RFC8288. This *does* have effects on roundtrip-ability (the meaning of `[{href:"/b",anchor:"http://external-host"}]` is inexpressable in RFC6690 documents, and `;anchor=3D"http://external-host/"` needs to be converted to `[{href:"http://external-host/b",...}]` but retains the same semantics), but I still think that it is better to have that complexity in the converters than to carry on the mistakes[1] of the past into the next generation of content formats. Having a decision is also relevant to the Resource Directory draft (where this discussion comes from) because we need to either stay that we have to impose the same restrictions on JSON/CBOR documents as we do on RFC6690 ones ("no relative hrefs when anchor is present"), or we can recommend using JSON/CBOR link format because it can be used without worries. Best regards Christian [2]: My personal opinion of the origin of the discrepancy is that it was an honest mistake in reading 5988 back when 6690 was written (otherwise it would have been pointed out as a deliberate decision to deviate here) -- I made the same mistake myself[2] revisiting 5988. The newer 8288 does not allow for that interpretation any more. [1]: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/6r-Dcl6l4ieqzI4K4p5KkQZ7HcI --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAloyY4gACgkQOY0REtOk veGxyg//fddM/eqsAS8UN8INo/06XvdHax/XJy2Q7tmmczzYNZvCkaM2nXwZFjq3 0+IYWNKwfdNEIhwUM0hGdTkQ9tgXp1CznJl/g6oXbHlYZtsRJ8QozeVEySZsEuzW 1mglSqyAsuIP9ikX9n/ZBpjaQ0yG9DXjN1ROOZ4YMq7BYkCOcWADqJ1fJLjQ7Kvu dDqHjCVM4/sqY2qgmWHr1KD/C5C9C6rPxXhbdsarBscwql531yCBvddZjJb1eAuy WAr31WsL8+pzJlpEPfHmgKKS3BK1ynKW7tkHAf8maIjpSsW4qMzAHPFe1y++jt0o nxomKCSyqFrUVRo/M0J4GqONFWa66YXdcTD3dM4Pn+ieY9U+UBhJZzNE2qi9pzXg QVoeQbSt4adZjqWUOy/CCLhGpp41gH/XbFNNFLAJ9qHhbEnWn/D4jPvH6FiFQBf8 Y//YGCd/9MFTnSPV8ubMhGZIHFvS27+rbjjXcleXy/WGeR5lCX6p3/MGepuBAg43 Z302kfFNjfm0VKRo2PVdOcCQ89JUBNa7Wo84+6gelJ8PSUD976BSylipGe2kwmQp maaPKxcyZykQXGZeXocwDRfjwgviL9z6snQ3qBg99ltzixYwNF2uFsnpC+WVc0NK T5jqkCno3hDyFDpzm6tmq0+FASCSaETRhmIMim8cRD3+yjioiAQ= =FLcN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Kj7319i9nmIyA2yE-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:18:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4F1126C25; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:18:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1HhPZ4fw2Fz7; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9722B124205; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:18:06 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508796000"; d="scan'208,217";a="305473148" Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.3]) ([89.188.33.128]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 14:18:04 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9F79A59E-E2B0-4213-8F06-D17B9DBBA9B4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:18:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: <59F07A9C-B5E4-4EA0-96D6-A425F132F56B@ericsson.com> Cc: "draft-ietf-core-object-security.authors@ietf.org" To: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" References: <59F07A9C-B5E4-4EA0-96D6-A425F132F56B@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WGLC_on_draft-ietf-core-object-sec?= =?utf-8?q?urity?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:18:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9F79A59E-E2B0-4213-8F06-D17B9DBBA9B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 G=C3=B6ran, all, It was really a pleasure to witness how this spec advanced from = draft-selander-ace-object-security-00 and evolved to its current form. = Thank you for accommodating the requests coming from 6TiSCH and making = this solution so efficient. I am just starting to work on a Wireshark dissector and this made me go = through the text on HTTP-to-CoAP and CoAP-to-HTTP proxying as one may = have HTTP carrying OSCORE. I would like to understand better the added = value of this part of the spec. Take as an example HTTP client = generating request that is proxied/translated into a CoAP request. For = the HTTP client to generate external_aad and ciphertext, it needs to = implement portions of CoAP machinery. For example, to generate = plaintext, the HTTP client needs to know in advance what CoAP Code will = the proxied request have, how HTTP headers will translate to CoAP = options and how to encode them in CoAP format. My question is whether it = makes sense for an HTTP client to implement this, but not the rest of = CoAP. Second comment is related to normative language on error handling in = -07. Background: Some error responses can be spoofed as they are not = protected due to the lack of common keying material, so this opens up a = DoS vector on the client. Current text in -07 states that the server MAY = send this kind of response. Could you elaborate the reasoning behind = this? What is the expected behavior of a client? Could you discuss = somewhere security tradeoff being made when one opts for one approach or = the other? Why do you not differentiate based on message type (NON/CON), = as used in previous versions? Mali=C5=A1a > On 20 Nov 2017, at 16:09, Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez = wrote: >=20 > Dear CoRE WG, >=20 > As we discussed during this IETF, the OSCORE draft is in good shape = for WGLC.=20 > The authors have submitted a reviewed version dealing with the minor = comments from IEF100. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-object-security-07 = =20 >=20 > The WGLC will end by 11th of December.=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > - - Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core --Apple-Mail=_9F79A59E-E2B0-4213-8F06-D17B9DBBA9B4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 G=C3=B6ran, all,

It was really a pleasure to witness how this spec advanced = from draft-selander-ace-object-security-00 and evolved to its current = form. Thank you for accommodating the requests coming from 6TiSCH and = making this solution so efficient.

I am just starting to work on a = Wireshark dissector and this made me go through the text on HTTP-to-CoAP = and CoAP-to-HTTP proxying as one may have HTTP carrying OSCORE. I would = like to understand better the added value of this part of the spec. Take = as an example HTTP client generating request that is proxied/translated = into a CoAP request. For the HTTP client to generate external_aad and = ciphertext, it needs to implement portions of CoAP machinery. For = example, to generate plaintext, the HTTP client needs to know in advance = what CoAP Code will the proxied request have, how HTTP headers will = translate to CoAP options and how to encode them in CoAP format. My = question is whether it makes sense for an HTTP client to implement this, = but not the rest of CoAP.

Second comment is related to normative language on error = handling in -07. Background: Some error responses can be spoofed as they = are not protected due to the lack of common keying material, so this = opens up a DoS vector on the client. Current text in -07 states that the = server MAY send this kind of response. Could you elaborate the reasoning = behind this? What is the expected behavior of a client? Could you = discuss somewhere security tradeoff being made when one opts for one = approach or the other? Why do you not differentiate based on message = type (NON/CON), as used in previous versions?

Mali=C5=A1a


On 20 Nov 2017, at 16:09, Jaime = Jim=C3=A9nez <jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com> wrote:

Dear CoRE WG,

As we discussed during this IETF, the OSCORE draft is in = good shape for WGLC. 
The authors have submitted a reviewed version dealing = with the minor comments from IEF100.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-object-security-07<= /a> 

The WGLC will end by = 11th of December. 

Best Regards,
- - Jaime Jim=C3=A9nez

_______________________________________________
core = mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core

= --Apple-Mail=_9F79A59E-E2B0-4213-8F06-D17B9DBBA9B4-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:29:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E83128DE5; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:29:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44eVy9nLkAEV; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C76C3128DF3; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:29:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEDT7bc002514; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:29:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p5DC7F151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.241.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yyDtC3BB0zDXgX; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:29:07 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:29:05 +0100 Cc: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , "draft-ietf-core-object-security.authors@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 534950945.037071-3d83db6df1e7b70c201503d302522a3f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9215CD62-532C-40DC-BC11-DF9DBD6B7165@tzi.org> References: <59F07A9C-B5E4-4EA0-96D6-A425F132F56B@ericsson.com> To: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WGLC_on_draft-ietf-core-object-sec?= =?utf-8?q?urity?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:29:13 -0000 On Dec 14, 2017, at 14:18, Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 = wrote: >=20 > My question is whether it makes sense for an HTTP client to implement = this, but not the rest of CoAP. Hi Mali=C5=A1a, unfortunately, this is not just a question of implementation, but also = about whether the client will have reachability. =20 HTTP is "the protocol that goes through firewalls=E2=80=9D... Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Dec 14 05:55:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE35F126C83; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:55:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325973985.6124.4673819241466756988@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 05:55:39 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-12.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 13:55:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : Media Types for Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) Authors : Cullen Jennings Zach Shelby Jari Arkko Ari Keranen Carsten Bormann Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-12.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2017-12-14 Abstract: This specification defines media types for representing simple sensor measurements and device parameters in the Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML). Representations are defined in JavaScript Object Notation (JSON), Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR), eXtensible Markup Language (XML), and Efficient XML Interchange (EXI), which share the common SenML data model. A simple sensor, such as a temperature sensor, could use this media type in protocols such as HTTP or CoAP to transport the measurements of the sensor or to be configured. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-senml-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:00:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 930C31201F2 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:00:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iQwHFG5Nur3E for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0D891200CF for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:00:44 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-473ff7000000341b-12-5a32840a4731 Received: from ESESSHC022.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.84]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 61.DD.13339.A04823A5; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:00:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.225]) by ESESSHC022.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0352.000; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:00:42 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ari_Ker=E4nen?= To: core Thread-Topic: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-12.txt Thread-Index: AQHTdOM8ufxVucytlECNj7PVmPZSFaNCzVCA Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:00:41 +0000 Message-ID: <70B22736-4C58-4CF1-80FE-BBB8FD1332BC@ericsson.com> References: <151325973985.6124.4673819241466756988@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151325973985.6124.4673819241466756988@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iC53i1GUwb1Ci31v1zM7MHosWfKT KYAxissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvj0rMDrAUfRSp+P37D3sDYLtDFyMkhIWAi8abjKwuILSRwmFGi e559FyMXkL2EUWLjr2lsIAk2AXuJyWs+MoLYIgISEp1f97N3MXJwCAvYSCydIQQRtpVYeG8m G4RtJPGo7R7YTBYBVYlzv+4ygdi8QGPmfHvJBrHLSeLQ/6dgcU4BZ4ntE44zg9iMAmIS30+t AYszC4hL3HoynwniTgGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jhbCVJBbd/gxVrydxY+oUNgjbWqLhxVJWCFtb YtnC18wQNwhKnJz5hGUCo+gsJCtmIWmfhaR9FpL2WUjaFzCyrmIULU4tTspNNzLWSy3KTC4u zs/Ty0st2cQIjJODW36r7mC8/MbxEKMAB6MSD++9DKMoIdbEsuLK3EOMEhzMSiK8rdFAId6U xMqq1KL8+KLSnNTiQ4zSHCxK4rwnPXmjhATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYySM437gqcaTJkg lX/N0vWlu1Cvqn7VjJTqz6KCszcb/Fi26c2+vN1TN5bWWHyZLaG3nK2haopNPPOfd1WOZ85U X9zJcKrSaJtg63OWnGk5Cxyfz5y6pmiR3zu+dzzh2dFFglN2KB6flcOg9tt0cpv6VQlTpaQ9 65TNeEwVfp8JLWrnPl/VclyJpTgj0VCLuag4EQAI820kjwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-senml-12.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:00:48 -0000 This update addresses the final comments from, and before, the Singapore IE= TF meeting. In particular: * The IANA table of SenML labels includes now more clearly all info=20 * There's new table in the beginning summarising the registered labels and = their types * Removed final references to "link" extension that we missed in the previo= us update * Security considerations moved from media types to it's own section (and r= eferencing that in media type registrations) * Editorial fixes We believe this version is ready for publication. Cheers, Ari > On 14 Dec 2017, at 14.55, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of t= he IETF. >=20 > Title : Media Types for Sensor Measurement Lists (SenML) > Authors : Cullen Jennings > Zach Shelby > Jari Arkko > Ari Keranen > Carsten Bormann > Filename : draft-ietf-core-senml-12.txt > Pages : 46 > Date : 2017-12-14 >=20 > Abstract: > This specification defines media types for representing simple sensor > measurements and device parameters in the Sensor Measurement Lists > (SenML). Representations are defined in JavaScript Object Notation > (JSON), Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR), eXtensible > Markup Language (XML), and Efficient XML Interchange (EXI), which > share the common SenML data model. A simple sensor, such as a > temperature sensor, could use this media type in protocols such as > HTTP or CoAP to transport the measurements of the sensor or to be > configured. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-12 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-senml-12 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-core-senml-12 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:59:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833F7126D3F; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:59:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vqP4anwYUIoY; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0686D127868; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:59:07 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,400,1508796000"; d="scan'208,217";a="305493540" Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.3]) ([89.188.33.128]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Dec 2017 15:59:06 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= Message-Id: <1A6AB710-B033-4BB1-90FD-475358F1900C@inria.fr> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B6EB42A8-7952-4493-912F-DC801862F1E2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:59:05 +0100 In-Reply-To: <9215CD62-532C-40DC-BC11-DF9DBD6B7165@tzi.org> Cc: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , "draft-ietf-core-object-security.authors@ietf.org" To: Carsten Bormann References: <59F07A9C-B5E4-4EA0-96D6-A425F132F56B@ericsson.com> <9215CD62-532C-40DC-BC11-DF9DBD6B7165@tzi.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WGLC_on_draft-ietf-core-object-sec?= =?utf-8?q?urity?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:59:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B6EB42A8-7952-4493-912F-DC801862F1E2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Carsten, Thanks, I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of those use cases. I take then as useful = that OSCORE has a stand-alone dissector instead of being part of CoAP. Mali=C5=A1a > On 14 Dec 2017, at 14:29, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Hi Mali=C5=A1a, >=20 > unfortunately, this is not just a question of implementation, but also = about whether the client will have reachability. =20 > HTTP is "the protocol that goes through firewalls=E2=80=9D... >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --Apple-Mail=_B6EB42A8-7952-4493-912F-DC801862F1E2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Carsten,

Thanks, I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of those use cases. I take = then as useful that OSCORE has a stand-alone dissector instead of being = part of CoAP.

Mali=C5=A1a

On = 14 Dec 2017, at 14:29, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

Hi Mali=C5=A1a,
unfortunately, this is not just a question of = implementation, but also about whether the client will have = reachability.  
HTTP is "the protocol that goes = through firewalls=E2=80=9D...

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, = Carsten

= --Apple-Mail=_B6EB42A8-7952-4493-912F-DC801862F1E2-- From nobody Thu Dec 14 07:31:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16CC3126DED; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:31:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X7wkd6QWkpkf; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EA00124319; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:31:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBEFV3Mo023599; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:31:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.114] (p5DC7F151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.241.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yyHZv3JKbzDXhv; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:31:03 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20171214114204.GA31455@hephaistos> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:31:01 +0100 Cc: draft-ietf-core-links-json@ietf.org, core@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 534958260.914469-3bd32420c321aa5369462444b09e1ad0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20171214114204.GA31455@hephaistos> To: =?utf-8?Q?Christian_Ams=C3=BCss?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] links-json: target resolution in presence of anchors / RFC8288 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:31:12 -0000 Hi Christian, (Speaking as a core-links-json co-author:) We indeed have experienced a shift of focus here. When the work on links-json started, seamless roundtripping with RFC = 6690 link-format was the foremost objective. But, in the meantime, seamless integration into the larger Web world = (both Big Web and Thing Web) was become of foremost importance. Three aspects of RFC 6690 are in the way here: =E2=80=94 it is based on RFC 5988, which has been superseded by RFC = 8288, with many problems solved =E2=80=94 in particular the handling of = starred attributes (such as title*) can be much simplified now. =E2=80=94 it uses a rather simplified form of resolving percent = encoding, which works great for limited use cases, but prevents its = seamless use with Web applications that may employ more complex percent = encoding. =E2=80=94 it has unusual rules for resolving relative links, which is = the point that you are referring to. We can work around the third problem by only using absolute links, which = will be the fix for RD for now. The deviation of RFC 6690 from the relative link handling that would be = usual for RFC 8288 (and, actually, also for RFC 5988 already) was a = feeble attempt to get some URI compression into the format (relative = URIs can be shorter than absolute ones). This kind of works, for = certain use cases, but is brittle. A better way is to go back to = absolute links and address the URI compression objective separately, = maybe even in a different RFC. This does need some thinking. (I may be = worth to remember that RDF has been using a form URI compression from = the outset, and we may want to learn from there =E2=80=94 see also = link-employing formats such as CORAL!) So the next step is to integrate these learnings into links-json and = come up with a new version. This will obviously need another WGLC before we hand it back to the = IESG. =20 By addressing this heads-on, the process should also fix the blocking = issues that got it stuck in the IESG, so we should be able to finish = this soon. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Dec 14 18:35:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05FD81243FE for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:35:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwuSlieigGWK for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:35:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AD1D12704B for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (12.110.93.130) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:33:57 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdN1R6vkhR/jTuwAS7uQz8XdDSgQ3A== Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [12.110.93.130] Archived-At: Subject: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 02:35:23 -0000 I have managed to get back to this topic and given it some deep thought over the last 24 hours and would like to get some feedback. First, what does it mean to have something on the same session? There are three different things that I can think of: 1. A response is required to be returned on the same session. Reconnect on a different session and the response is dropped on the floor. 2. An observe relationship is defined as returning responses -- see item 1 3. An application could, in theory, require that a sequence of operations must be done on a single session. That is the total set that I can think of. Authorization as it is currently defined is attached to keys for the secure sessions, thus if a new session is created with the same key the same set of authorizations can be expected. How one defines a session: * For UDP, it would be based on the 4-tuple address. A session would last as long as nobody interferes with the routing table. This can be indefinitely for a static routing table or something short like 2 minutes or so. (I had to remotely diagnose this at one point, the fire wall closes the routing and observe values stop getting to the client. The value depends on the specific version of windows that is being uses as well as which of the different firewalls is being used.) * For TCP, it is based on the TCP session. * For TLS/DTLS, it would be based on the TLS idea of a session. Sessions can be re-connected if that was setup when the initial handshakes was performed. There is also coming the ability to have DTLS sessions be able to automatically re-route without needing to re-connect the session. The only potential problem with this concept is that one could do two TLS session reconnections at the same time. This would either need to be disallowed or some thought would need to be put into questions of what this means. I would lean towards the disallow myself, but it is a harder question for DTLS where the client may think that the session had been lost and the server thinks it is still open just on a different address 4-tuple because a re-routing operation. (Closing the first and rolling over to the second would be a viable option for DTLS.) These concepts would completely replace the current text in RFC 7252 where it says it needs to be the same session, but text such as the same EPOCH would be removed because, from a DTLS view it just does not make any sense. Future: 1. Is this is correct set of concepts for sessions? 2. What re-writes in what documents need to be made? 3. What is the correct way to do those re-writes. (Are there enough problems w/ RFC 7252 that a re-issue is needed or could this just be an update?) Jim From nobody Thu Dec 14 22:42:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C3512704B for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:42:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tQsYHlvc_ObT for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22BE8126B7F for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:42:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBF6fjJ6023086; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:41:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.217.102] (p5DC7F151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.241.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3yygnj2HqFzDXpF; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:41:45 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 07:41:44 +0100 Cc: core@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 535012904.524395-ffc1da89a3f967d404f2e0c2ff0d4e97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5CB08BD1-0817-40E6-994D-FD0606377947@tzi.org> References: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 06:42:27 -0000 Hi Jim, Not sure that =E2=80=9Csession=E2=80=9D is the right concept for this, = but for now I=E2=80=99ll go with that. (Ironically, I worked on the OSI session layer some 35 years ago :-) = Some memories=E2=80=A6) > How one defines a session: > * For UDP, it would be based on the 4-tuple address. =20 This. And we have some special precautions in CoAP and Observe to = handle the case that one end of the session has lots its memory (one = case of which is that the IP address is reallocated). > A session would last > as long as nobody interferes with the routing table. =20 The routing table is the internal working of the IP layer and simply = doesn=E2=80=99t enter the picture here. > * For TCP, it is based on the TCP session. TCP calls that a =E2=80=9Cconnection=E2=80=9D. (Which in turn is based on the 4-tuple and a pair of 32-bit sequence = numbers at both ends, hopefully chosen with some entropy; we usually = entertain the fiction that this is uniquely identifying the connection.) Here, we have fate-sharing between the application state and and = connection state. > * For TLS/DTLS, it would be based on the TLS idea of a session. =20 Which is the part where we have to find out whether the concepts match. (Right now, again, it is the (D)TLS *connection*.) > Sessions > can be re-connected if that was setup when the initial handshakes was > performed. There is also coming the ability to have DTLS sessions be = able > to automatically re-route without needing to re-connect the session. =20= Can you point to the mechanism/document you have in mind? > The > only potential problem with this concept is that one could do two TLS > session reconnections at the same time. This would either need to be > disallowed or some thought would need to be put into questions of what = this > means. =20 Right. So we don=E2=80=99t seem to have a perfect match of concepts. > I would lean towards the disallow myself, but it is a harder > question for DTLS where the client may think that the session had been = lost > and the server thinks it is still open just on a different address = 4-tuple > because a re-routing operation. (Closing the first and rolling over = to the > second would be a viable option for DTLS.) Right. > These concepts would completely replace the current text in RFC 7252 = where > it says it needs to be the same session, but text such as the same = EPOCH > would be removed because, from a DTLS view it just does not make any = sense. >=20 > Future: > 1. Is this is correct set of concepts for sessions? > 2. What re-writes in what documents need to be made? > 3. What is the correct way to do those re-writes. (Are there enough > problems w/ RFC 7252 that a re-issue is needed or could this just be = an > update?) I don=E2=80=99t think there is a reason to re-issue 7252. This document would simply be an =E2=80=9Cupdates 7252=E2=80=9D RFC. (And we could update the MTI ciphers at the same time, if we want.) We could also go ahead and define extended session concepts for = non-secure, as well. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Dec 15 00:32:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5172124D85 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:32:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fn-ssmDBPB4N for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from prometheus.amsuess.com (alt.prometheus.amsuess.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:190:3064::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AAE1126DFE for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 00:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b18:c13b:8010:a800:ff:fede:b1bd]) by prometheus.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 646F34789E; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com [10.13.13.231]) by poseidon-mailhub.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6407739; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from hephaistos.amsuess.com (hermes.amsuess.com [10.13.13.254]) by poseidon-mailbox.amsuess.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28EEF39; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:29 +0100 (CET) Received: (nullmailer pid 4380 invoked by uid 1000); Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:32:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:27 +0100 From: Christian =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ams=FCss?= To: Jim Schaad Cc: core@ietf.org Message-ID: <20171215083226.GA13299@hephaistos> References: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:32:36 -0000 --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim, On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 06:35:11PM -0800, Jim Schaad wrote: > First, what does it mean to have something on the same session? There are > three different things that I can think of: > 1. A response is required to be returned on the same session. Reconnect= on > a different session and the response is dropped on the floor. > 2. An observe relationship is defined as returning responses -- see item= 1 > 3. An application could, in theory, require that a sequence of operations > must be done on a single session. >=20 > That is the total set that I can think of. Authorization as it is curren= tly > defined is attached to keys for the secure sessions, thus if a new session > is created with the same key the same set of authorizations can be expect= ed. I think that this can be narrowed down even further to: * Where can a response be sent to, and where does the server accept a response to come from? * Where can observe notices be sent to (and are accepted from)? * Where are follow-up blockwise fragments sent to (and are accepted from)? Anything higher-level (especially applications) should IMO not try to establish anything session-ish from the involved addresses. Applications should only access authentication information (detached from the addresses/sessions) the but not routing information any more -- such an access would violate the REST principle of being stateless. > How one defines a session: > * For UDP, it would be based on the 4-tuple address. [..] > * For TCP, it is based on the TCP session. > * For TLS/DTLS, [...] I'd add OSCORE, and argue that all the use of a context constitutes a "session" (or as I prefer to call it, compatible addresses). > These concepts would completely replace the current text in RFC 7252 where > it says it needs to be the same session, but text such as the same EPOCH > would be removed because, from a DTLS view it just does not make any sens= e. 7252 mentions sessions only in the DTLS context. For everything else, it talks about the "same endpoint" (eg. messsage deduplication from same message ID and source endpoint, or observation requirements of matching endpoint/token pairs). The definition of Endpoint in 7252 kind of already covers the DTLS session definition by by saying that an endpoint is identified by "transport layer multiplexing information", detailing that in 4.1. It could be more explicit there, talk of address 4-tuples rather "IP address and UDP port", and ask documents on other transports to define "endpoint (address) identity" there, but IMO this concept only needs to be explained better and not replaced with sessions. Best regards Christian --=20 To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater power= s. -- Bene Gesserit axiom --NzB8fVQJ5HfG6fxh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEECM1tElX6OodcH7CWOY0REtOkveEFAloziJUACgkQOY0REtOk veGynxAAspTlTxIwasjiewqPZwCDiZ90oB4gfdHpOmGTuN3wHbRwAMeKIqAEksin 1Q6wp0BVHVE5BHE70nXsEG7yVBvQkijRIMXSF18QjTmWDHmhGvYxbP2yEyAetHug rlMi94OGHzj0CTpwlD8FD7LFhXOhu5yuI66G/IL/GCAffbq2+tkdk4AT48I/y7xa D0le8UGKaU6aHKuUh+i8SPoGT+5vP8nbMf4zupRYOOeNBZV744fCnuTcyKPUISFX gVbQXAnu50BEqBDsEUSGXuxSKC9AhsSf2XDlb7jH5c955KTehDY/HVrt69F6fg6Q EK9KPEh4OsBLbhR39yvoHFIW9qaaPS/pV/FZkhGiKr9ex75NGGz8dzsUz0BrpU0v ZLZ6klOoBVETb3J6Z7VhJtQPXuLGItdWlUER7XeZIWHlc/XRMlsV0SKy9vgbz32O HTVDWpAAj/bDj3kTCmreA+XY7Xp7981PWA6j48EEDGilhDVuiTlcQqYxx6nUZvhZ xpCeChWn0dI14a56j32yaW+fRrOH9A/Pq/pkF1sLDWj04sQKq65w+IeM5RBC7hK+ 36fINFicHM6CAbwNkZ8GRjBO4QKBOvs6dTJf0W/NBYSUfWHXqn0IRlF69GLwnV3j 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[iot-wg] IoT Developer Survey X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:44:37 -0000 --_000_6CFBC5B2000A4F17AABCDF6FB283660Dericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCkVjbGlwc2UgaXMgcHJlcGFyaW5nIHRoZWlyIGRldmVsb3BlciBzdXJ2ZXks IGlmIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgd2l0aCBxdWVzdGlvbnMgb3IgZmVlZGJhY2sgbm93 IGlzIHRoZSB0aW1lLg0KTGF0ZXIgb24gcGxlYXNlIHJlbWVtYmVyIHRvIGNvbW1lbnQgb24geW91 ciBkaXN0cmlidXRpb25zL3Byb3RvY29scy9lbnZpcm9ubWVudHMgb2YgY2hvaWNlLg0KDQpDaWFv IQ0KLSAtIEphaW1lIEppbcOpbmV6DQoNCkJlZ2luIGZvcndhcmRlZCBtZXNzYWdlOg0KDQpGcm9t OiBJYW4gU2tlcnJldHQgPGlhbi5za2VycmV0dEBlY2xpcHNlLWZvdW5kYXRpb24ub3JnPG1haWx0 bzppYW4uc2tlcnJldHRAZWNsaXBzZS1mb3VuZGF0aW9uLm9yZz4+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbaW90LXdn 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autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwK6a9Havdhc for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89E8D12940F for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (12.110.93.130) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:30:48 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Carsten Bormann' CC: References: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> <5CB08BD1-0817-40E6-994D-FD0606377947@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <5CB08BD1-0817-40E6-994D-FD0606377947@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:32:02 -0800 Message-ID: <011b01d375ca$a03137a0$e093a6e0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJesKG9jT/0loqZYAvxbv3VnbNnmwGfGDoSoiE5M5A= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [12.110.93.130] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:32:49 -0000 Carsten, > -----Original Message----- > From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:42 PM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] What is a session >=20 > Hi Jim, >=20 > Not sure that =E2=80=9Csession=E2=80=9D is the right concept for this, = but for now I=E2=80=99ll go with that. > (Ironically, I worked on the OSI session layer some 35 years ago :-) = Some > memories=E2=80=A6) There is never a good term for any of these ideas in part because they = are so overloaded. >=20 > > How one defines a session: > > * For UDP, it would be based on the 4-tuple address. >=20 > This. And we have some special precautions in CoAP and Observe to = handle the > case that one end of the session has lots its memory (one case of = which is that > the IP address is reallocated). >=20 > > A session would last > > as long as nobody interferes with the routing table. >=20 > The routing table is the internal working of the IP layer and simply = doesn=E2=80=99t > enter the picture here. Anything that causes the addresses to be re-used plays a picture here. = As a server and a client, as long as my IP address does not change which = is the normal case, it can always re-use the port number allowing for = the same "UDP session" to be established even if it goes down for a = period of time. However, if there is any IP entity in the middle which = changes any of those values for any reason then that is the effective = lifetime limit.=20 >=20 > > * For TCP, it is based on the TCP session. >=20 > TCP calls that a =E2=80=9Cconnection=E2=80=9D. > (Which in turn is based on the 4-tuple and a pair of 32-bit sequence = numbers at > both ends, hopefully chosen with some entropy; we usually entertain = the fiction > that this is uniquely identifying the connection.) >=20 > Here, we have fate-sharing between the application state and and = connection > state. Right. >=20 > > * For TLS/DTLS, it would be based on the TLS idea of a session. >=20 > Which is the part where we have to find out whether the concepts = match. > (Right now, again, it is the (D)TLS *connection*.) >=20 > > Sessions > > can be re-connected if that was setup when the initial handshakes = was > > performed. There is also coming the ability to have DTLS sessions = be > > able to automatically re-route without needing to re-connect the = session. >=20 > Can you point to the mechanism/document you have in mind? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-tls-dtls-connection-id-02 = establishes a connection identifier that would allow the 5-tuple to = change and it would still be recognized as being the same DTLS session. >=20 > > The > > only potential problem with this concept is that one could do two = TLS > > session reconnections at the same time. This would either need to = be > > disallowed or some thought would need to be put into questions of = what > > this means. >=20 > Right. So we don=E2=80=99t seem to have a perfect match of concepts. >=20 > > I would lean towards the disallow myself, but it is a harder = question > > for DTLS where the client may think that the session had been lost = and > > the server thinks it is still open just on a different address = 4-tuple > > because a re-routing operation. (Closing the first and rolling over > > to the second would be a viable option for DTLS.) >=20 > Right. >=20 > > These concepts would completely replace the current text in RFC 7252 > > where it says it needs to be the same session, but text such as the > > same EPOCH would be removed because, from a DTLS view it just does = not > make any sense. > > > > Future: > > 1. Is this is correct set of concepts for sessions? > > 2. What re-writes in what documents need to be made? > > 3. What is the correct way to do those re-writes. (Are there = enough > > problems w/ RFC 7252 that a re-issue is needed or could this just be > > an > > update?) >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think there is a reason to re-issue 7252. > This document would simply be an =E2=80=9Cupdates 7252=E2=80=9D RFC. > (And we could update the MTI ciphers at the same time, if we want.) We = could > also go ahead and define extended session concepts for non-secure, as = well. Making it an updates would be the simplest method to do this. I was not = sure if there were enough things like errata and other concepts to make = it worthwhile doing a re-issue. Also I am unsure of where things = are/want to be in the standards process. Jim >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Dec 15 09:38:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACA312940F for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jMpp_UrKFStO for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 843B5129409 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from Jude (12.110.93.130) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:36:48 -0800 From: Jim Schaad To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Christian_Ams=FCss'?= CC: References: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> <20171215083226.GA13299@hephaistos> In-Reply-To: <20171215083226.GA13299@hephaistos> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:02 -0800 Message-ID: <011f01d375cb$771c9890$6555c9b0$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJesKG9jT/0loqZYAvxbv3VnbNnmwIDHMpQoh4bRvA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [12.110.93.130] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:38:14 -0000 Hi Christian, > -----Original Message----- > From: Christian Ams=FCss [mailto:c.amsuess@energyharvesting.at] > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 12:32 AM > To: Jim Schaad > Cc: core@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [core] What is a session >=20 > Hello Jim, >=20 > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 06:35:11PM -0800, Jim Schaad wrote: > > First, what does it mean to have something on the same session? = There > > are three different things that I can think of: > > 1. A response is required to be returned on the same session. > > Reconnect on a different session and the response is dropped on the floor. > > 2. An observe relationship is defined as returning responses -- see > > item 1 3. An application could, in theory, require that a sequence = of > > operations must be done on a single session. > > > > That is the total set that I can think of. Authorization as it is > > currently defined is attached to keys for the secure sessions, thus = if > > a new session is created with the same key the same set of authorizations can > be expected. >=20 > I think that this can be narrowed down even further to: >=20 > * Where can a response be sent to, and where does the server accept a > response to come from? > * Where can observe notices be sent to (and are accepted from)? > * Where are follow-up blockwise fragments sent to (and are accepted > from)? >=20 > Anything higher-level (especially applications) should IMO not try to establish > anything session-ish from the involved addresses. Applications should = only > access authentication information (detached from the > addresses/sessions) the but not routing information any more -- such = an access > would violate the REST principle of being stateless. That makes it easier. I was trying to think of anything that might be = of interest. The biggest one for me was observations which can cause all = sorts of problems depending on who goes to sleep and how often things change. = I had not thought of the blockwise case because I tend to think of that as something that is done "quickly". >=20 > > How one defines a session: > > * For UDP, it would be based on the 4-tuple address. [..] > > * For TCP, it is based on the TCP session. > > * For TLS/DTLS, [...] >=20 > I'd add OSCORE, and argue that all the use of a context constitutes a "session" > (or as I prefer to call it, compatible addresses). That would make sense to me as well. >=20 > > These concepts would completely replace the current text in RFC 7252 > > where it says it needs to be the same session, but text such as the > > same EPOCH would be removed because, from a DTLS view it just does = not > make any sense. >=20 > 7252 mentions sessions only in the DTLS context. For everything else, = it talks > about the "same endpoint" (eg. messsage deduplication from same = message ID > and source endpoint, or observation requirements of matching endpoint/token > pairs). >=20 > The definition of Endpoint in 7252 kind of already covers the DTLS = session > definition by by saying that an endpoint is identified by "transport = layer > multiplexing information", detailing that in 4.1. It could be more explicit there, > talk of address 4-tuples rather "IP address and UDP port", and ask documents > on other transports to define "endpoint (address) identity" there, but = IMO this > concept only needs to be explained better and not replaced with = sessions. Does that mean that for DTLS an endpoint would be defined as a DTLS = session identifier? Some of my thinking is influenced by the code base that I = am maintaining. It has the concept of an endpoint only for the local half = of the 4-tuple of UDP and shoves all of the "other side" parts under the covers. This means that my way of thinking of things might be wrong. = Oh to have been in the original discussions so that my concepts matched = better. Jim >=20 > Best regards > Christian >=20 > -- > To use raw power is to make yourself infinitely vulnerable to greater powers. > -- Bene Gesserit axiom From nobody Sat Dec 16 01:18:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12538126CBF; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:18:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jaime Jimenez To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Jaime Jimenez , jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com, core-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Message-ID: <151341593306.8284.8591814368311802713.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:18:53 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-core-cocoa-02 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:18:53 -0000 Jaime Jimenez has requested publication of draft-ietf-core-cocoa-02 as Informational on behalf of the CORE working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-cocoa/ From nobody Sun Dec 17 12:52:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0603F1242F5 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=taitradio.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgV0IaGySsRm for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x236.google.com (mail-qt0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD7CA1201FA for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x236.google.com with SMTP id f2so17876471qtj.4 for ; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=taitradio.com; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GG5Z24VujNzzk3abFCTUUDWeBHhILER4Ywy17u+46Yo=; b=AKf2Fnb3QZHMV1MF3kfg2SOWC9r9FJclOfWyw8Frc/kNkRG01ZfvsckD8c/xqOd/i5 Tf6UqFhjLLwasVFD3sVxp8l1F7lUdKW3TLvymfCRpdg4GUA/4VCUnlC+nZ2ou69p3fgD bjcnIe5OjSCK3CKbATDFolTm/iy4jkaLa2Ghc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GG5Z24VujNzzk3abFCTUUDWeBHhILER4Ywy17u+46Yo=; b=ICgFhSrBoDbhwZFXHSLXVuj5KJWuiubee949gm2tvVoJGDLb9sPCOBtexZ+qM27QdP hL3cPF8xLeszgwBh1KhSREeG3M2fvLbjyE+KGcrSdB1VC1ydLJ0JfvPYJXn3gUBg9SNZ 17q5tNwnEkWLeZc2zuzpd27zno+R2lHJnYG4Wx3z5OzMsTExo2oNGa2ImIfFplE/AScI G9uzBvDIO5ZK0DTazEov4czVhDtJlrdk1OzN4uglcpFdOlftfGDAVTWUdA0OECC4IwgP ruBSCLaD+NTMOSWnMl5xoEr6TC5r9RpBm5zYXt3OjRx1sgDrpPkrKyxXxu1Lh8wzita2 mSFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIvl/lqw1FQMK/0jir8sHzA7q8QneUa13sZPmxpsI2tHVq+xVJP xKbMSSp8eLDVdEFGPNL1Yl8w3YvKljoimCO9TjDE4fqbD1VRRorLnXzxCl5vREB2L/A/+1+xv/d zJw3uy5Jvubb5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosvJrYys4W0A2PUXKDgaMTJRlJUIxhTtiSjz8Zf3LdVcsHA5titbB438qWs9HMkhrIJFgN2rzhKtJTotjJvXVM= X-Received: by 10.200.23.20 with SMTP id w20mr9700828qtj.210.1513543967823; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.135.145 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2017 12:52:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5CB08BD1-0817-40E6-994D-FD0606377947@tzi.org> References: <00e301d3754d$56677a30$03366e90$@augustcellars.com> <5CB08BD1-0817-40E6-994D-FD0606377947@tzi.org> From: John Carter Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:52:27 +1300 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Jim Schaad , core@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114817428df95605608f6a21" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] What is a session X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 20:52:51 -0000 --001a114817428df95605608f6a21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > Not sure that =E2=80=9Csession=E2=80=9D is the right concept for this, bu= t for now I=E2=80=99ll go > with that. > (Ironically, I worked on the OSI session layer some 35 years ago :-) Som= e > memories=E2=80=A6) > To go completely off on a tangent...... (although in some senses very related) ...I've been trying to wade my way through "Patterns in Network Architecture: A Return to Fundamentals" by John Day Which is largely a rant against the failings of the OSI.... I get the impression John Day's memories of OSI weren't very pleasant.... does that match your memory? Have you read John Day's book and/or have an opinion on his "RINA " initiative? Thanks! --=20 ------------------------------ This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at www.taitradio.com/email_disclaimer ------------------------------ --001a114817428df95605608f6a21 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrot= e:

Not sure that =E2=80=9Csession=E2=80=9D is the right concept for this, but = for now I=E2=80=99ll go with that.
(Ironically, I worked on the OSI session layer some 35 years ago :-)=C2=A0 = Some memories=E2=80=A6)

To go completely off on a tangent....= .. (although in some senses very related)

...I've been trying to wade my = way through "Patterns in Network Architecture: A Return to Funda= mentals" by John Day

Which is largely a rant against the fail= ings of the OSI....

I get the impression John Day's memories of OSI weren'= ;t very pleasant.... does that match your memory?

Have you read John Day'= s book and/or have an opinion on his = "RINA" initiative?

=
Thanks!

This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on t= he
basis of the terms set out at www.taitradio.com/email_disclaimer
--001a114817428df95605608f6a21-- From nobody Mon Dec 18 08:11:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029FD127863 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 08:11:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I9EQtyPKk-ch for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 08:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr10068.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.1.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 507BB1243F3 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM4PR0801MB2707; H:AM4PR0801MB2706.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: arm.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0801MB2706A1F121C639AE7F997D39FA0E0AM4PR0801MB2706_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8a94f541-5292-4a2a-b787-08d54631f726 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2017 16:11:15.5863 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR0801MB2707 Archived-At: Subject: [core] CoAP over TCP Interop Testing: Status Update X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:11:23 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0801MB2706A1F121C639AE7F997D39FA0E0AM4PR0801MB2706_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, On Wednesday and Thursday, December 13th and 14th, Olaf Bergmann, Szymon Sa= sin (for ARM), and Jim Schaad with admin support from Carsten Bormann and m= yself met to test the latest and greatest CoAP over TCP specification (see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-10). The goal of this online interop testing activity was to determine whether t= here are any additional clarifications that need to be added to the spec be= fore it gets published as an RFC. The three teams all had server and client components. The good news upfront: the basic tests, including the new messaging format = and the capability exchange, worked fine between all implementations. The tests focused on retrieving a payload of different size by the client f= rom the server. Observing resources was not tested this time. Sending data = from the client to the server was also postponed to the next event. To acco= mplish the goals set for this event we used CoAP over TCP rather than CoAP = over TLS since standard TLS is used by the spec. To make testing more interesting the focus was soon shifted to block-wise t= ransfer, which was also supported by almost all implementations. Minor prob= lems were noticed during the tests and fixed during these two days. All participants considered the event useful and will get together again to= test further functionality. Tool-wise we used Webex, which allowed us to b= oth exchange chat messages and to discuss problems conveniently. This is mo= st likely the setup we should use again at the next online test event. A po= ssible date would be late January 2018 and we will distribute a Doodle poll= early next year. Ciao Hannes PS: The test servers are located here: ** ARM coap://[2001:14ba:884c:b00:f92a:5b96:b94e:5b61]:5683 coap://85.23.50.176:5683 Supported uri paths: /small-1k /large-10k /xlarge-100k ** Jim jimsch.hopto.org ** Olaf test.libcoap.net IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM4PR0801MB2706A1F121C639AE7F997D39FA0E0AM4PR0801MB2706_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 =

On Wednesday and Thursda= y, December 13th and 14th, Olaf Bergmann, Szymon Sasin (for ARM), and Jim S= chaad with admin support from Carsten Bormann and myself met to test the la= test and greatest CoAP over TCP specification (see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-10).

 =

The goal of this online = interop testing activity was to determine whether there are any additional = clarifications that need to be added to the spec before it gets published a= s an RFC.

 =

The three teams all had = server and client components.

 =

The good news upfront: t= he basic tests, including the new messaging format and the capability excha= nge, worked fine between all implementations.

 =

The tests focused on ret= rieving a payload of different size by the client from the server. Observin= g resources was not tested this time. Sending data from the client to the s= erver was also postponed to the next event. To accomplish the goals set for this event we used CoAP over TCP ra= ther than CoAP over TLS since standard TLS is used by the spec.

 =

To make testing more int= eresting the focus was soon shifted to block-wise transfer, which was also = supported by almost all implementations. Minor problems were noticed during= the tests and fixed during these two days. 

 =

All participants conside= red the event useful and will get together again to test further functional= ity. Tool-wise we used Webex, which allowed us to both exchange chat messag= es and to discuss problems conveniently. This is most likely the setup we should use again at the next online test = event. A possible date would be late January 2018 and we will distribute a = Doodle poll early next year.

 =

Ciao

Hannes=

 =

PS: The test servers are= located here:

 =

** ARM=

 =

coap://[2001:14ba:884c:b= 00:f92a:5b96:b94e:5b61]:5683

coap://85.23.50.176:5683=

 =

Supported uri paths:

  /small-1k

  /large-10k

  /xlarge-100k=

 =

** Jim=

  <= /span>

jimsch.hopto.org

 =

** Olaf

 =

test.libcoap.net

 =

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM4PR0801MB2706A1F121C639AE7F997D39FA0E0AM4PR0801MB2706_-- From nobody Mon Dec 18 09:32:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3AA12751F; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:32:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls@ietf.org, Jaime Jimenez , core-chairs@ietf.org, jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com, core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151361836142.3433.9249492756874271585.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 09:32:41 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?utf-8?q?etf-core-coap-tcp-tls-10=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:32:41 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my discuss with the next upcoming version -11. Happy Holidays! From nobody Mon Dec 18 11:32:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C5312D862; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 11:32:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: core@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151362554487.18426.12202111618794119919@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 11:32:24 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] I-D Action: draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11.txt X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 19:32:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Constrained RESTful Environments WG of the IETF. Title : CoAP (Constrained Application Protocol) over TCP, TLS, and WebSockets Authors : Carsten Bormann Simon Lemay Hannes Tschofenig Klaus Hartke Bilhanan Silverajan Brian Raymor Filename : draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2017-12-18 Abstract: The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP), although inspired by HTTP, was designed to use UDP instead of TCP. The message layer of the CoAP over UDP protocol includes support for reliable delivery, simple congestion control, and flow control. Some environments benefit from the availability of CoAP carried over reliable transports such as TCP or TLS. This document outlines the changes required to use CoAP over TCP, TLS, and WebSockets transports. It also formally updates RFC 7641 for use with these transports and RFC 7959 to enable the use of larger messages over a reliable transport. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Dec 18 13:04:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EEF12D94F; Mon, 18 Dec 2017 13:04:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com, core-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls@ietf.org, Jaime Jimenez , core@ietf.org, alexey.melnikov@isode.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <151363105955.13418.3921278388828597013.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 13:04:19 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Protocol Action: 'CoAP (Constrained Application Protocol) over TCP, TLS, and WebSockets' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11.txt) X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 21:04:19 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'CoAP (Constrained Application Protocol) over TCP, TLS, and WebSockets' (draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls-11.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Constrained RESTful Environments Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Ben Campbell. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-coap-tcp-tls/ Technical Summary The Constrained Application Protocol (CoAP), although inspired by HTTP, was designed to use UDP instead of TCP. The message layer of the CoAP over UDP protocol includes support for reliable delivery, simple congestion control, and flow control. Some environments benefit from the availability of CoAP carried over reliable transports such as TCP or TLS. This document outlines the changes required to use CoAP over TCP, TLS, and WebSockets transports. It also formally updates RFC 7641 for use with these transports and RFC 7959 to enable the use of larger messages over a reliable transport. Working Group Summary The document has gone through multiple expert reviews over the years and was last presented on multiple IETF sessions. The discussion on whether the document should use coaps+ws:// versa coap+wss:// URI scheme was rather protracted, but the WG finally came to a conclusion. The decision to allocate several new URI schemes for different underlying transports has caused some controversy, but was finally settled after a discussion with IESG and URI experts. Document Quality Several vendors are interested in implementing the specification. Personnel Document Shepherd: Jaime Jiménez Responsible Area Director: Alexey Melnikov From nobody Tue Dec 19 01:35:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA516120725; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 01:35:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GxhXEsN5iybS; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 01:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 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TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FA8712778E; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 02:02:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vBJA2FbH018929; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:02:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de (sev.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.218.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3z1D3C4LHBzDXCX; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:02:15 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1A6AB710-B033-4BB1-90FD-475358F1900C@inria.fr> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 11:02:13 +0100 Cc: "core@ietf.org WG (core@ietf.org)" , "draft-ietf-core-object-security.authors@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 535370533.406415-a782e01436dad551a624f1e656033b3e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <59F07A9C-B5E4-4EA0-96D6-A425F132F56B@ericsson.com> <9215CD62-532C-40DC-BC11-DF9DBD6B7165@tzi.org> <1A6AB710-B033-4BB1-90FD-475358F1900C@inria.fr> To: =?utf-8?B?TWFsacWhYSBWdcSNaW5pxIc=?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [core] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_WGLC_on_draft-ietf-core-object-sec?= =?utf-8?q?urity?= X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 10:02:28 -0000 On Dec 14, 2017, at 15:59, Mali=C5=A1a Vu=C4=8Dini=C4=87 = wrote: >=20 > Thanks, I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of those use cases. I take then as = useful that OSCORE has a stand-alone dissector instead of being part of = CoAP. Actually, CoAP now comes in three encoding variants: =E2=80=94 in a CoAP/UDP (or CoAP/DTLS) message =E2=80=94 in a CoAP/TCP (TLS, WebSockets) stream =E2=80=94 within an OSCORE Object-Security option, in CoAP, or in the = HTTP header field of the same name These are all mostly the same (most of the work is in the option = encoding), but the way the message code is transported differs between = these three cases. (There are also some new options for CoAP/TCP the = meaning of which depends on the message code.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Dec 19 04:33:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: core@ietf.org Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC69512DA6C; Tue, 19 Dec 2017 04:33:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jaime Jimenez To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Jaime Jimenez , jaime.jimenez@ericsson.com, core-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, core@ietf.org Message-ID: <151368682996.7387.3023516265459512626.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 04:33:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [core] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-core-senml-12 X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 12:33:50 -0000 Jaime Jimenez has requested publication of draft-ietf-core-senml-12 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the CORE working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-core-senml/