From nobody Fri Dec 1 09:11:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AA912714F for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:11:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tL3LjcHKkWwu for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 716811275C5 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:11:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=646; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512148313; x=1513357913; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=anrlsABVnWCVyaL99P6Ysn65amVmRR54XueT9gqwK/Y=; b=RJ6OqGVVhrIfTvApXqyhScC2OFkBGWlsWvfEv1AkT4FvkrMf0AqK31Us nnHjKsE2tybZrXUsiuO3FmHLXBilDW9KX5pvbJMrXIZf5ocR8Nk8KSE2C J0LKEOBYnB2TQ/mdDmfylowBCIxi6Xcf3PLFjyee9knik2zT07HQpqAsC o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BNAQDcjCFa/5pdJa1cGgEBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYM8Zm4ug3iKII5XHph6ghUKJYUyhRE/GAEBAQEBAQEBAWsdC4VMEVc?= =?us-ascii?q?BIgImAgQwFRIEijUQpnmCJ4pkAQEBAQEBAQMBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ+CMoFgK?= =?us-ascii?q?oNogwKBSYFpgT6DRjGCMgWiYgKBdIV+jR2BfQGRV4x8iSACERkBgTkBHzmBOhN?= =?us-ascii?q?vFWQBgX+CXYF3iDWBMoEUAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,346,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="38491842" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Dec 2017 17:11:52 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com (xch-aln-017.cisco.com [173.36.7.27]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB1HBq8b024398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:11:52 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-ALN-017.cisco.com (173.36.7.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:11:52 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:11:52 -0600 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Recap of IETF 100 Hackathon Thread-Index: AQHTasd7RDehN4jFAE6CeZNV6UbLFw== Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:11:51 +0000 Message-ID: <9C120AE4-0F1A-413F-917C-3D2E61502ADA@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.27.0.171010 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.20.182.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <332EDEDF05581B43BE0F0ED0D243FBBF@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Recap of IETF 100 Hackathon X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 01:06:55 -0000 --001a113ed1ecacde02055f5119e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Charles, Thanks for your good summary for IETF-100 Hackathon. Our SKKU team had enjoyed the IETF Hackathon. We will keep working to contribute our I2NSF open source along with I2NSF standardization. See you in London for the next IETF meeting. Best Regards, Paul On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > Thanks to you all for making the hackathon such a success. We exceeded all > expectation including my own in terms of participation, and the results of > the projects were fantastic as well. Apologies in advance for mistakes and > omissions. It is getting to be pretty difficult to summarize all the great > work that occurs in the content of the hackathon. > > https://blogs.cisco.com/developer/ietf-hackathon-closes-loop-between-open- > source-and-standards > > Cheers, > Charles > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > -- =========================== Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Software Sungkyunkwan University Office: +82-31-299-4957 Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php --001a113ed1ecacde02055f5119e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Charles,
Thanks for your good summary for IETF-100 = Hackathon.
Our SKKU team had enjoyed the IETF Hackathon.
We will keep working to contribute our I2NSF open source along with I2NSF= standardization.

See you in London for the next I= ETF meeting.

Best Regards,
Paul

On Sat, Dec 2,= 2017 at 2:11 AM, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) <eckelcu@cisco.com> wrote:
Thanks to you all for making the= hackathon such a success. We exceeded all expectation including my own in = terms of participation, and the results of the projects were fantastic as w= ell. Apologies in advance for mistakes and omissions. It is getting to be p= retty difficult to summarize all the great work that occurs in the content = of the hackathon.

https:= //blogs.cisco.com/developer/ietf-hackathon-closes-loop-between-op= en-source-and-standards

Cheers,
Charles

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon<= /a>



--
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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:52:15 -0000 Hi Ulrike, I=E2=80=99ve made that change to the website. Thanks for supplying a = substitute image to make this easier. I=E2=80=99ll ask about updating the pdf. Please accept my apologies for the discomfort the original image caused. Regards, Mat Mat Ford Editor, IETF Journal > On 5 Dec 2017, at 13:38, u wrote: >=20 > Hi! >=20 > I've been sent the link to: > http://www.ietfjournal.org/running-code-is-king-at-ietf-99-in-prague/ > where I can see my face and read my name tag even if I'd be half blind = :) >=20 > I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my > picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You = can > use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this = picture. >=20 > I actually already did that to make your life easier, and uploaded the > file here: > https://451f.org/IETF-Hackathon-woman-July-2017-Prague-031.jpg. Please > exchange the picture as soon as possible with the one where my name is > readable on the tag. >=20 > I know that the picture is also in the PDF of the journal, but in = there > it's at least a little bit smaller, so don't bother redacting this too = - > unless you want to offer me a present for Christmas. >=20 > Thank you for your attention, > Ulrike >=20 From nobody Tue Dec 5 09:07:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A871272E1 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:07:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XFBiaJqHBpvj for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D8FC126CD8 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6355F99B; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:07:15 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A98D82057E; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: eckelcu@cisco.com Cc: u , hackathon@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 12:07:04 -0500 Message-ID: <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:07:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi Charles and IETF hackathon team-- i guess you saw this note: On Tue 2017-12-05 13:38:00 +0000, u wrote: > I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my > picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You can > use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this picture. I'm wondering what we can do for future hackathons to make them more welcoming to people who would rather not appear in photographs. There is generally a wandering photographer, which is great for documenting the energy and spirit of the hackathon, and i think seeing the photos has made the event more appealing, helped to document its impact, and have encouraged further participation, which is great. But it'd be a shame if the presence of the photographer actually discourages some people from participating, too. Maybe we could offer participants a way that they could simply identify themselves as being "ok for photos", or "not ok for photos", and ask the photographer to respect the expressed preference? Some ideas i've seen at other conferences aimed at respecting participants' privacy preferences: * stickers on nametags that say "no photos please" -- a camera with a circle with a slash through it is a common visual, but a simple large, visible, colored dot (with a clear legend at the nametag table explaining what the color means) is also probably fine. * different-colored lanyards for people who would prefer to not appear in photographs (again, with a clear legend). lanyards are nice because they're visible from all sides -- you don't have to see the nametag to tell the person's preference. * a box full of buttons (with a picture of a camera with a circle with a slash through it), which people can pick up next to the nametags. I think i've seen the same photographer at multiple hackathons -- is that right, that it's a steady gig? if so, i'd be happy to involve the photgrapher in this discussion to find out what kind of markings/expression they think would make it easier for them to do their job while respecting these preferences. Let me know what you think makes sense as a next step! And thanks for your ongoing work in organizing the hackathon. It continues to be one of the best parts of the IETF. All the best, --dkg --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEOCdgUepHf6PklTkyFJitxsGSMjcFAlom0jgACgkQFJitxsGS MjcMbxAAi9oNkGk1+EMLElKD35lsk0Hh7XYniduM3uS6I49CxSdjWYE9z/4GB0wq fn5Q0oaaECPQPF4P7Fi/fy1l1hthMi2nmYNc6wqYbCU7PozXiEu4iIhZuTkEA5FJ X7eQTWEUf5C443yId5fybkwyOjOf3zKaNnikrINJMYKHiiaGJfMsmUbajS0I7GEx x7L5OdnX3NoOy51mgnF4KxNfcVZMe/Fc1MoBqOwZrATztC5pZj6R0BdADRPJ4R6J qiPIebd2gDcvr6oIu0Z7v5iU20CoIUrM+Llv6+YsqpHqJ15pAb9VZaAPB3tKZ/Va llY4GFN+N6o3EeXST+M5Amg4rHLAFy1mMzGoeclyQWmjFoLSLYJ4b8FuALP7xIJh rB9rK1+meYE2+926V1DtTvwb9pcZv3pDJSHkF/hellzHQuwUn3f4H8Zznb+y2IM/ PMNy7LNE/S/9Mu/qWbdBsuQYL1BDBM84FLvu6FenBQDe+HbOUeXqz0EX8JmwM9ub N/glB9Z8q1Nqr1AF5O+Pu0cFoKyFMngfMji1ExLr4EmrZb8nYs24gUm4T88GcvJs NsXb7/g2j2y62bE0i07gldEfguZQx1DHvA4WBc0XQnYHcZAOV5PcOF6TcP1MYuc+ GmdRYTZaPU6mpjAxidZFMZhGrUeN86DeDziJ5LIQIEWe2eV9tLQ= =wyYN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Dec 5 09:09:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB36127871 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:09:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-4bLg7ji5IH for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-x22e.google.com (mail-yw0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C9661272E1 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f1so410104ywd.8 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 09:09:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Od7nKVhS53LORcn0bxp/PIQ0khrMdiLk2u3xlYX0gH8=; b=ds3nTqsJX//wDvf+pOPOtmtyDDtejTqJNQTOy+njjXZWxLmFrt8zN7S/YMrxcyjIB2 rl7VEGXJPB2mNFOj69aIquvKEpOQmtoum4WuCnDYktGdjYlTFsygvBN2S6MTBm6fzJ7t 0IkzvCQbzYdzxN80/cVp68x8xHXPvHetVhigfS8N07LiCR1eajx99VMr7+qHG2TwXF+e tedLUUf2gppcTDO5dwqBA7s6BL8w0GHZsvDevRPjLqmozc0RSAwa0cl5P8D1Uvk6AX8J mbzarnbBETKyY+3pkcRgFBJEclJ6jvQCnH8180BuWB81GsTU9ZwsaQcI4T/mJH69bc74 S2bQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Od7nKVhS53LORcn0bxp/PIQ0khrMdiLk2u3xlYX0gH8=; b=d+8GdAvz9HftBufgLnNqLBPMkZhXatIyknuma3VmtgT0epls2OGNzyMAiJqo6jT0oz Lcaz/3A+rxoAPENN0WncU0jNeZ8gyTiQZQbb/6qFP3roDl2qmzJ3cQ3/PF3OoVzQ5TLz KMqZkugQlJghMEncgzsALKemoK0YVT/J+7jqS58Mw7cfX3cappygEJcHTAh5hzaIIPum MURbQKTwicklhQhR2TYD4XfZsAxcy4xEwTWqKa39m47mpHVA8neDnF0m9zoToVR9n5NC rq1bQVmNzfm8rJyPZV45WcZdVxOm+gJnq3MVCQUvRzRs9LqywgktKGJD2cGQHCuvq1XR 8jhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6ls6Cp8e0+aMhaOYFeTUI5lBuWhtbqKGPmWuQOj6nZsQduUn8O QTtG9WujFC0K9eK0M0JmmX+BFWoC8rmrOlg7oTTfJopt X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYcvpPXYfesIPV1DeCaAPCJl5LKfMUZo1B91jMylgenkEav8fO4qApRgdU5ZY9Ki0rEnrxSispfwpvd3HVk3MY= X-Received: by 10.129.85.198 with SMTP id j189mr13303810ywb.504.1512493779067; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 09:09:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.123.132 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:08:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:08:58 -0800 Message-ID: To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor Cc: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , u , hackathon@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113f169e6d4099055f9ae628" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:09:42 -0000 --001a113f169e6d4099055f9ae628 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I want to second this. In fact, I think this would be good for the IETF as a whole. Obviously, people consent to being video recorded, but that doesn't mean they want to be still photographed, which is different. Different colored badges seem the easiest. -Ekr On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > Hi Charles and IETF hackathon team-- > > i guess you saw this note: > > On Tue 2017-12-05 13:38:00 +0000, u wrote: > > I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my > > picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You can > > use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this picture. > > I'm wondering what we can do for future hackathons to make them more > welcoming to people who would rather not appear in photographs. There > is generally a wandering photographer, which is great for documenting > the energy and spirit of the hackathon, and i think seeing the photos > has made the event more appealing, helped to document its impact, and > have encouraged further participation, which is great. > > But it'd be a shame if the presence of the photographer actually > discourages some people from participating, too. > > Maybe we could offer participants a way that they could simply identify > themselves as being "ok for photos", or "not ok for photos", and ask the > photographer to respect the expressed preference? > > Some ideas i've seen at other conferences aimed at respecting > participants' privacy preferences: > > * stickers on nametags that say "no photos please" -- a camera with a > circle with a slash through it is a common visual, but a simple > large, visible, colored dot (with a clear legend at the nametag table > explaining what the color means) is also probably fine. > > * different-colored lanyards for people who would prefer to not appear > in photographs (again, with a clear legend). lanyards are nice > because they're visible from all sides -- you don't have to see the > nametag to tell the person's preference. > > * a box full of buttons (with a picture of a camera with a circle with > a slash through it), which people can pick up next to the nametags. > > I think i've seen the same photographer at multiple hackathons -- is > that right, that it's a steady gig? if so, i'd be happy to involve the > photgrapher in this discussion to find out what kind of > markings/expression they think would make it easier for them to do their > job while respecting these preferences. > > Let me know what you think makes sense as a next step! And thanks for > your ongoing work in organizing the hackathon. It continues to be one of > the best parts of the IETF. > > All the best, > > --dkg > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > > --001a113f169e6d4099055f9ae628 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I want to second this. In fact, I think this would be good= for the IETF as a whole.
Obviously, people consent to being video reco= rded, but that doesn't mean they
want to be still photographe= d, which is different.

Different colored badges se= em the easiest.

-Ekr


On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:07 AM, = Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
Hi Charles and IETF hackathon team--

i guess you saw this note:

On Tue 2017-12-05 13:38:00 +0000, u wrote:
> I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my=
> picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You c= an
> use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this pi= cture.

I'm wondering what we can do for future hackathons to make them = more
welcoming to people who would rather not appear in photographs.=C2=A0 There=
is generally a wandering photographer, which is great for documenting
the energy and spirit of the hackathon, and i think seeing the photos
has made the event more appealing, helped to document its impact, and
have encouraged further participation, which is great.

But it'd be a shame if the presence of the photographer actually
discourages some people from participating, too.

Maybe we could offer participants a way that they could simply identify
themselves as being "ok for photos", or "not ok for photos&q= uot;, and ask the
photographer to respect the expressed preference?

Some ideas i've seen at other conferences aimed at respecting
participants' privacy preferences:

=C2=A0* stickers on nametags that say "no photos please" -- a cam= era with a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0circle with a slash through it is a common visual, but a simpl= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0large, visible, colored dot (with a clear legend at the nameta= g table
=C2=A0 =C2=A0explaining what the color means) is also probably fine.

=C2=A0* different-colored lanyards for people who would prefer to not appea= r
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in photographs (again, with a clear legend).=C2=A0 lanyards ar= e nice
=C2=A0 =C2=A0because they're visible from all sides -- you don't ha= ve to see the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0nametag to tell the person's preference.

=C2=A0* a box full of buttons (with a picture of a camera with a circle wit= h
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a slash through it), which people can pick up next to the name= tags.

I think i've seen the same photographer at multiple hackathons -- is that right, that it's a steady gig?=C2=A0 if so, i'd be happy to in= volve the
photgrapher in this discussion to find out what kind of
markings/expression they think would make it easier for them to do their job while respecting these preferences.

Let me know what you think makes sense as a next step!=C2=A0 And thanks for=
your ongoing work in organizing the hackathon. It continues to be one of the best parts of the IETF.

All the best,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --dkg

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon<= /a>


--001a113f169e6d4099055f9ae628-- From nobody Tue Dec 5 09:35:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F503126BF3 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:35:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9NquBKyhiiyI for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3AF8127011 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 09:35:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16896; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512495354; x=1513704954; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=bkoTAiNcEzshOKXk260D5xFo29ML7+rkD98UV66trnQ=; b=SrrSSx2AqbY1VpodHHVsC47PbI69ApshKgBcBqWSSaCRLsx42R8+r8lP 0CdQg0K01M13I6uUaCA2h30aij13hFUyDRR/ZN022c+Ta3HjbD5e4Uvl5 QqFRJF0ZsLafjTJNhTY8wmDfDgCYssVJWdtbIBxzpd8zHM5OB7onvsZ5R A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AxAgB22CZa/5NdJa1SChkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGCSkQvZm4nB4N5mRuBfZE3hUuCFQoYAQqESU8CGoUuQRYBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQFrKIUiAQEBAQMBASFFBgsQAgEIDgMDAQIBJwMCAgIlCxQJCAIEAQ0FG?= =?us-ascii?q?4kkZBCpWYInJoo2AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDSIIKg2iBdIEOhHZ?= =?us-ascii?q?CCRaCXzGCEiAFimCHJpBwApURghaGEYsxliQCERkBgTkBJQEygU1vFToqAYF+h?= =?us-ascii?q?FV4iRWBFAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,364,1508803200"; d="scan'208,217";a="332404155" Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Dec 2017 17:35:53 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (xch-aln-019.cisco.com [173.36.7.29]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB5HZrI1031437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:35:53 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (173.36.7.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:35:53 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:35:52 -0600 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: Eric Rescorla , Daniel Kahn Gillmor CC: u , "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hackathon] Please redact my picture Thread-Index: AQHTbc5RGZ/thTUxl0ShbTGeev3i2KM1X+oAgAAAiAD//4FqAA== Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:35:52 +0000 Message-ID: <13DD81A6-A10A-42B9-A84C-CFD0B7099A85@cisco.com> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.176.54] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_13DD81A6A10A42B9A84CCFD0B7099A85ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:35:57 -0000 --_000_13DD81A6A10A42B9A84CCFD0B7099A85ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2UgZG8gYXNrIGF0IHRoZSBraWNrb2ZmIG9mIGVhY2ggaGFja2F0aG9uIGlmIGFueW9uZSBwcmVm ZXJzIHRvIE5PVCBiZSBwaG90b2dyYXBoZWQuIEFkbWl0dGVkbHksIHRoaXMgb25lIGF0dGVtcHQg dG8gaWRlbnRpZnkgcGVvcGxlIG1pc3NlcyBhbnlvbmUgd2hvIGlzIG5vdCBwcmVzZW50IGF0IHRo YXQgdGltZS4gSSBhbHNvIGFncmVlIHdpdGggRWtyIHRoYXQgd2hpbGUgdGhpcyBpbnN0YW5jZSBp cyBpbiByZWdhcmQgdG8gdGhlIGhhY2thdGhvbiwgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gYW5kIHNvbHV0aW9uIHNo b3VsZCBleHRlbmQgYmV5b25kIHRoZSBoYWNrYXRob24gd2Vla2VuZCBhbmQgcm9vbSBhbmQgYXBw bHkgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgYXMgYSB3aG9sZS4NCg0KV2UgaGF2ZSBuZXZlciBoYWQgYWN0dWFsbHkg YmFkZ2VzIGZvciBoYWNrYXRob24gYXR0ZW5kZWVzOyByYXRoZXIsIHN0aWNrZXJzIGhhdmUgYmVl biBtYWRlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBmb3IgcGVvcGxlIHRvIHdyaXRlIHRoZWlyIG5hbWUgdG8gYXR0YWNo 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(8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB5Hvqi6024032 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:59:45 -0500 Received: from usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com ([216.178.109.236]) by m0048276.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 2ekpmt89c2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 12:59:45 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO potemwp00039.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.33.204]) by usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2017 09:59:44 -0800 Received: from potemwp00028.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.52) by potemwp00033.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:59:43 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.53) by potemwp00028.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.52) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:59:42 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) by potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.032; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:59:42 -0700 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla , Daniel Kahn Gillmor CC: u , "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture Thread-Index: AQHTbfLT8J4aUiV/bE63ok1ljcR/wg== Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:59:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.3.170325 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [100.126.25.31] x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D64C1A06EC928glenndeennbcunicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-05_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712050259 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:59:49 -0000 --_000_D64C1A06EC928glenndeennbcunicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Photo and video policies are delicate things that need to be considered car= efully. We've had a pretty open policy at the IETF with people freely carrying and = using cameras, to shift from that is something we should have a long seriou= s thinking through because while privacy is very important, so to is freedo= m to use your camera in what are public spaces and it can help support tran= sparency of the activities at the IETF. I'm not saying we shouldn't seek a way to support people's desires for priv= acy, but we need to be careful to also seek to support other's freedom to u= se cameras in public spaces at meetings that are supposed to be open and tr= ansparent. We need to have a lot of discussion and carefully consider the implications= of changing the current practices before making any changes. -glenn From: hackathon > on behalf of "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" > Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 9:35 AM To: Eric Rescorla >, Daniel Kahn Gillmor = > Cc: u >, "hackathon@ietf.org" > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture We do ask at the kickoff of each hackathon if anyone prefers to NOT be phot= ographed. Admittedly, this one attempt to identify people misses anyone who= is not present at that time. I also agree with Ekr that while this instanc= e is in regard to the hackathon, the problem and solution should extend bey= ond the hackathon weekend and room and apply to the IETF as a whole. We have never had actually badges for hackathon attendees; rather, stickers= have been made available for people to write their name to attach to their= person. There has been talk of moving to actual badges, and we could proba= bly make that happen for the IETF 101 hackathon. If so, we can leverage wha= tever is put in place for IETF as a whole. Different colored badges seems a= good option to me. Cheers, Charles From: Eric Rescorla > Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 9:09 AM To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor > Cc: Charles Eckel >, u >, "hackathon@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture I want to second this. In fact, I think this would be good for the IETF as = a whole. Obviously, people consent to being video recorded, but that doesn't mean th= ey want to be still photographed, which is different. Different colored badges seem the easiest. -Ekr On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor > wrote: Hi Charles and IETF hackathon team-- i guess you saw this note: On Tue 2017-12-05 13:38:00 +0000, u wrote: > I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my > picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You can > use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this picture. I'm wondering what we can do for future hackathons to make them more welcoming to people who would rather not appear in photographs. There is generally a wandering photographer, which is great for documenting the energy and spirit of the hackathon, and i think seeing the photos has made the event more appealing, helped to document its impact, and have encouraged further participation, which is great. But it'd be a shame if the presence of the photographer actually discourages some people from participating, too. Maybe we could offer participants a way that they could simply identify themselves as being "ok for photos", or "not ok for photos", and ask the photographer to respect the expressed preference? Some ideas i've seen at other conferences aimed at respecting participants' privacy preferences: * stickers on nametags that say "no photos please" -- a camera with a circle with a slash through it is a common visual, but a simple large, visible, colored dot (with a clear legend at the nametag table explaining what the color means) is also probably fine. * different-colored lanyards for people who would prefer to not appear in photographs (again, with a clear legend). lanyards are nice because they're visible from all sides -- you don't have to see the nametag to tell the person's preference. * a box full of buttons (with a picture of a camera with a circle with a slash through it), which people can pick up next to the nametags. I think i've seen the same photographer at multiple hackathons -- is that right, that it's a steady gig? if so, i'd be happy to involve the photgrapher in this discussion to find out what kind of markings/expression they think would make it easier for them to do their job while respecting these preferences. Let me know what you think makes sense as a next step! And thanks for your ongoing work in organizing the hackathon. It continues to be one of the best parts of the IETF. All the best, --dkg _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon --_000_D64C1A06EC928glenndeennbcunicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <297CB9F72B37704896DBBCE97A37E000@NBCUNI.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Photo and video policies are delicate things that need to be considere= d carefully.   

We’ve had a pretty open policy at the IETF with people freely ca= rrying and using cameras, to shift from that is something we should have a = long serious thinking through because while privacy is very important, so t= o is freedom to use your camera in what are public spaces and it can help support transparency of the activities a= t the IETF.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t seek a way to support people's= desires for privacy, but we need to be careful to also seek to support oth= er’s freedom to use cameras in public spaces at meetings that are sup= posed to be open and transparent.    

We need to have a lot of discussion and carefully consider the implica= tions of changing the current practices before making any changes.  


-glenn

From: hackathon <hackathon-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf= of "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" <eckelcu@cisco.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at = 9:35 AM
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Cc: u <u@451f.org>, "hackat= hon@ietf.org" <hackathon@= ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [hackathon]= Please redact my picture

We do ask at the kickoff of each hackathon if an= yone prefers to NOT be photographed. Admittedly, this one attempt to identi= fy people misses anyone who is not present at that time. I also agree with Ekr that while this instance is in regard to = the hackathon, the problem and solution should extend beyond the hackathon = weekend and room and apply to the IETF as a whole.

 

We have never had actually badges for hackathon = attendees; rather, stickers have been made available for people to write th= eir name to attach to their person. There has been talk of moving to actual badges, and we could probably make that happ= en for the IETF 101 hackathon. If so, we can leverage whatever is put in pl= ace for IETF as a whole. Different colored badges seems a good option to me= .

 

Cheers,

Charles

 

From= : Eric Rescorla <= ;ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 9:09 AM
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Cc: Charles Eckel <eckelcu@c= isco.com>, u <u@451f.org>, &= quot;hackathon@ietf.org" <= ;hackathon@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture<= /p>

 

I want to second this. In fact, I think this would b= e good for the IETF as a whole.

Obviously, people consent to being video recorded, b= ut that doesn't mean they

want to be still photographed, which is different.

 

Different colored badges seem the easiest.

 

-Ekr

 

 

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor = <dkg@fifthhor= seman.net> wrote:

Hi Charles and IETF h= ackathon team--

i guess you saw this note:

On Tue 2017-12-05 13:38:00 +0000, u wrote:
> I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my
> picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You c= an
> use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this pictur= e.

I'm wondering what we can do for future hackathons to make them more
welcoming to people who would rather not appear in photographs.  There=
is generally a wandering photographer, which is great for documenting
the energy and spirit of the hackathon, and i think seeing the photos
has made the event more appealing, helped to document its impact, and
have encouraged further participation, which is great.

But it'd be a shame if the presence of the photographer actually
discourages some people from participating, too.

Maybe we could offer participants a way that they could simply identify
themselves as being "ok for photos", or "not ok for photos&q= uot;, and ask the
photographer to respect the expressed preference?

Some ideas i've seen at other conferences aimed at respecting
participants' privacy preferences:

 * stickers on nametags that say "no photos please" -- a cam= era with a
   circle with a slash through it is a common visual, but a simpl= e
   large, visible, colored dot (with a clear legend at the nameta= g table
   explaining what the color means) is also probably fine.

 * different-colored lanyards for people who would prefer to not appea= r
   in photographs (again, with a clear legend).  lanyards ar= e nice
   because they're visible from all sides -- you don't have to se= e the
   nametag to tell the person's preference.

 * a box full of buttons (with a picture of a camera with a circle wit= h
   a slash through it), which people can pick up next to the name= tags.

I think i've seen the same photographer at multiple hackathons -- is
that right, that it's a steady gig?  if so, i'd be happy to involve th= e
photgrapher in this discussion to find out what kind of
markings/expression they think would make it easier for them to do their job while respecting these preferences.

Let me know what you think makes sense as a next step!  And thanks for=
your ongoing work in organizing the hackathon. It continues to be one of the best parts of the IETF.

All the best,

    --dkg

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon

 

--_000_D64C1A06EC928glenndeennbcunicom_-- From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:28:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208B912946F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oSadD2D2EXlG for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99FA2126D73 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A278AF99A; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0490520568; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:12:40 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: "Deen\, Glenn \(NBCUniversal\)" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , Eric Rescorla Cc: u , "hackathon\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:12:36 -0500 Message-ID: <87lgih9h7v.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:28:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Tue 2017-12-05 17:59:42 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > Photo and video policies are delicate things that need to be > considered carefully. Agreed. Has the current policy been considered carefully? > We need to have a lot of discussion and carefully consider the > implications of changing the current practices before making any > changes. afaict, we're currently discussing the best way that people present at the event (all of whom we presume to be acting in good faith) can clearly express their preferences in a way that other people can respect those preferences. Surely that's not a dangerous change to make? This is not a discussion of adversarial photography -- an alternate-colored badge, sticker, button, or lanyard would clearly not be a solution to that case. Right? This is not about abridging the freedoms of photographers. It's about giving respectful photographers more information so that they can be better informed when taking pictures. This actually makes things easier for respectful photographers because they don't have to worry about asking people (either before or after taking pictures) whether they're ok with being photographed. --dkg --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEOCdgUepHf6PklTkyFJitxsGSMjcFAlom4ZUACgkQFJitxsGS Mjf1bQ//dJhyAYU7y66r8NssNkgvGLtYAeTgUt430toxBTnJ5TXZLmQTX4+CiJ6A 68Qy8ZNSPCbJP6jzMmSICteuhohT8UFvggzrF8901NG/9pq4cADtDApiVh8LSNyb LE6tAKx7i5KeZYNLyawA2kIsu0zBTazPXEtWiHGPyoe9fY3EYJoCN8YuEUmRzBYg 99kVZ6HnNlzxmZ2UuKH1OgcaBuNuspDAsb0yhHWyn6JdYL9y7UjSuX1ByDt6efP+ LJFsOribjDt9X2qI8wMgezWXn4rPsLcRscnIhhanzxDgOXFG5lhcCU2CFqH+36Sr ZD8IjF1QmcNZvzA9wpHx45TqSpmNcRq4hod/ieS5pAGS2H8NglS0Ahjt1HjxJViN cULFteN5G8YBs4YgEUwXKovetzpsQ0JeBdO4f0ARpJw5azowxtPNLXEYgoqYskhO krVLvQuBoRGJRMjNDqdeXTXxAo0IBQFNsqLy+dEVGIAqH6vu3BzSgZAl8h6Kp7UH BaWoUuFlA+1G6OPQ+ZBpcY6H58614ip7c8+L6pPKC+CCxe7QhP+SFH3H3yy5GytC eDFIPIYzseUH/Y3GMPOr2fvpCs815TttLug0sWc/hF/sYW6yrzMBWnoP2srDTcLw FpL2Nj+2SS6FIj8LJ60qZ8/ngc+DmBmIak0J3X08wOP/4ck4ZR0= =XbCK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:28:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87497126D73 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzmhsKdogNyV for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B55D112704A for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1154F99B; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:28:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9ED452059A; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , Eric Rescorla Cc: u , "hackathon\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <13DD81A6-A10A-42B9-A84C-CFD0B7099A85@cisco.com> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <13DD81A6-A10A-42B9-A84C-CFD0B7099A85@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:27:55 -0500 Message-ID: <87indl9gic.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:28:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain On Tue 2017-12-05 17:35:52 +0000, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > We do ask at the kickoff of each hackathon if anyone prefers to NOT be > photographed. Admittedly, this one attempt to identify people misses > anyone who is not present at that time. I also agree with Ekr that > while this instance is in regard to the hackathon, the problem and > solution should extend beyond the hackathon weekend and room and apply > to the IETF as a whole. Getting buy-in for the IETF as a whole sounds like a large undertaking. if we can do it, that'd be great! But we could also model a successful strategy at the hackathon first, without blocking on the rest of the IETF, and inform the greater IETF of the result of our experiment. > We have never had actually badges for hackathon attendees; rather, > stickers have been made available for people to write their name to > attach to their person. right, i think the "colored dot" proposal fits best with the hackathon's traditional nametag approach. I'm happy to foot the bill for a few sheets of stickers for hackathon 101. We should probably choose a color that doesn't collide with anything in [0]. Maybe a black dot, if that doesn't seem too somber to people? [1] [0] https://www.ietf.org/tao.html#rfc.section.3.6 [1] https://www.staples.com/Avery-Removable-Self-Adhesive-Color-Coding-Round-Labels-28-Labels-Per-Sheet-Black-3-4-Diameter-1-000-Labels-Pk/product_537928 > There has been talk of moving to actual badges, and we could probably > make that happen for the IETF 101 hackathon. If so, we can leverage > whatever is put in place for IETF as a whole. Different colored badges > seems a good option to me. Again, i'd be happy to not block on bigger changes, but if the bigger changes happen we should definitely piggyback on them. Also, at IETF 100, i didn't get my smileyface logo on my badge, despite ticking the correct box during registration. i had to draw it on myself, so i'm not convinced that banking on the IETF badge process reflecting people's preferences is the way to go. finally, there are people at the hackathon who do not attend the rest of the IETF. will those people have badges? --dkg --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEOCdgUepHf6PklTkyFJitxsGSMjcFAlom5SsACgkQFJitxsGS Mjd2ZA//UviGb8ofD3Z+/XLDEzAzPaXclxTyfqrquVAAzyBSwkZVwliw6zIc0Jes VrVR21Jgm755dV05g4Yd0ARJJNkh7SYEWxSl4ITeNB/NsS1BDURaYgv6UfptvXD7 MCLX2G9wuN89tW3lOutbrZg8/+xa7DrTboXZKzyOry23rHmNyqHaEqqBh0EnRcdO Iq+SQi+imnFnvJpdAJZt50w0E+dyHOa1WEojpgO3kf+VDjNw/cXbK1mumOAFy/Hr 5voNH5S3eSaP/O0JemcmJ1orAwv5wav/2En6PHkaENnnsz5A86c07JInVrM93Uai RmvdAzT7BP0oryoNnT6s9dwrsGlUh0RXYEUEZ2CT6FGPjqTOcxLnvcyZVoWo+jg/ EqpBCR0iKX8BpGIpFP3KNXZ0TeQuzVEAu3Vac5xIYI2jbhjxW+WVq7HCvwSKMxPX 9yLwiBQmz8R4ys8lWH0d9YtKR70RegVRxQGALQKU6SWE9uaXdU9lqAWDC/Lgfx+S BvvWUuWHPhPnHLthALWZBcGuqnuzU+DsZ7NxpyzumIBXxOQR6SVtGB+1qBm5oLN8 hpnO+D09+X3hJMD61rKrHXtEhCEAHJsbUK+l7IxqitjE1UjoIw/fFVA64qUHZ4g0 mD+oQ2wmpaAm99UWCS8YIyU8moClwWl1PvlFb2xxHoUGSbgMlJo= =agU4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:47:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69BC127A91 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:47:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n0qQuyAAghHO for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x230.google.com (mail-ot0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C764712717E for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:47:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 103so1133766otj.12 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:47:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VWJQGHoIUPONEoCjoqtqcSwblBMPBXFYxEisIDP3nSA=; b=QRsTjFJEcseXmKTY8TGflJ+l2dSWM5sCtYimr9PPUTTzRkcc0lncI+C1b+xwMQf2uS 6+PkgAxVkGBV/k9JJQA5SrtaqIGUIS78pNoXUhhVYje+eIX2R0E+0aKC8aEwMhoKREok ckKV0gY7SIjfi2A3nMGTKpzmdQI6NFM40AlCumjWAUv7/UiVA4wY2haDpzeshdnCA+sH ZYS5NHTpYfsEXUas9DZqLi1QzhO8v+vugte2RJkWL2Ufgtlcts+9HDYNT6xVSIfeVDAx luOPOh/P1mZWdeSbmDpxm3Cqz0jE6UX4W+zRBjJHf2HBNbUzd0IWgn9T0tNTCwBm+Ost I50A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VWJQGHoIUPONEoCjoqtqcSwblBMPBXFYxEisIDP3nSA=; b=aoDZzBrTwzOx1Xms1BkF0k4VhLjmty+CJsHU1ZlanQjAaJSOCBdW35bsrjodfDJe7c LTuFaK6UrVQGObcY4yfY7KNohY1xZvxUqvPoIJYoIysbgBjaWqIXFC3f+ZaLvb8QvmEM BNFTrO/9bNIabZylxj+rX+tqudNMa4JZNNKnjc1ssf/JLuz0fSHyxZh2aGae3KvPUE5L XXODCPHPFya8ktu53qrL0fgAx7PUeYpg0SLLX7fbtjX+OJ+us4yzQ4U+Sx+pwZXk857S TFVyT9kRlbgGliuRAs8WyT4aObo9XzGZK6hwbMPWnXQACa03+py6JVqLyJ57/99yKP0E jGCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ0b6hSIzXCeRMuXutE4zUObVUMRwYWyQR41km4g9FCgW4oWTyu EK3/Ltd2/UAeG6S1i8pLnm6HwsnYrgyrnDfd0D6zig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZCuZ9evgz+OvhPVeXAGMgomMfVQ/YrM8xH4uhO7Lxs3zG3gqeah7oI3vkTQ0nqHKJaRpOJeDjQHnJ0U5P3J6Q= X-Received: by 10.157.50.37 with SMTP id t37mr4399643otc.135.1512499635002; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:47:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.168.53.129 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:46:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87indl9gic.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <13DD81A6-A10A-42B9-A84C-CFD0B7099A85@cisco.com> <87indl9gic.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:46:59 -0500 Message-ID: To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "hackathon@ietf.org" Cc: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla , u Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:47:18 -0000 The smiley stickers were on the table at registration. You had to stick one on yourself. The IETF meeting is a public open meeting. I am opposed to photography / audio recording / videoing restrictions there. However, the Hackathon is a different thing, witness, for example, its different IPR rules. So, while I have some doubts, I don't oppose trying out photography/recording restrictions at the Hackathon. Thanks, Donald =============================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On Tue 2017-12-05 17:35:52 +0000, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: >> We do ask at the kickoff of each hackathon if anyone prefers to NOT be >> photographed. Admittedly, this one attempt to identify people misses >> anyone who is not present at that time. I also agree with Ekr that >> while this instance is in regard to the hackathon, the problem and >> solution should extend beyond the hackathon weekend and room and apply >> to the IETF as a whole. > > Getting buy-in for the IETF as a whole sounds like a large undertaking. > if we can do it, that'd be great! > > But we could also model a successful strategy at the hackathon first, > without blocking on the rest of the IETF, and inform the greater IETF of > the result of our experiment. > >> We have never had actually badges for hackathon attendees; rather, >> stickers have been made available for people to write their name to >> attach to their person. > > right, i think the "colored dot" proposal fits best with the hackathon's > traditional nametag approach. I'm happy to foot the bill for a few > sheets of stickers for hackathon 101. > > We should probably choose a color that doesn't collide with anything in > [0]. Maybe a black dot, if that doesn't seem too somber to people? [1] > > [0] https://www.ietf.org/tao.html#rfc.section.3.6 > [1] https://www.staples.com/Avery-Removable-Self-Adhesive-Color-Coding-Round-Labels-28-Labels-Per-Sheet-Black-3-4-Diameter-1-000-Labels-Pk/product_537928 > >> There has been talk of moving to actual badges, and we could probably >> make that happen for the IETF 101 hackathon. If so, we can leverage >> whatever is put in place for IETF as a whole. Different colored badges >> seems a good option to me. > > Again, i'd be happy to not block on bigger changes, but if the bigger > changes happen we should definitely piggyback on them. > > Also, at IETF 100, i didn't get my smileyface logo on my badge, despite > ticking the correct box during registration. i had to draw it on > myself, so i'm not convinced that banking on the IETF badge process > reflecting people's preferences is the way to go. finally, there are > people at the hackathon who do not attend the rest of the IETF. will > those people have badges? > > --dkg > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:55:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC41127AD4 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:55:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TL0NKyrBFE7C for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x230.google.com (mail-pf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ED661243FE for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id u25so827297pfg.5 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CQGrvD4dtwKOtYsxwUmpkptDZWmBMTnyYC08iTxQwCw=; b=f1wjTpwTnKwbRgcvC6/z07ipAKFIGhXwCgtXn0PcPWR65t4e4IM+pbXvX7gNJgx0tV 2ayedwald5lHAodwYrM9SDUNmlbZYm/afQfQZEoYydmcNJLkTxbnQOJqGlQLkpoj8GpL GuUZMib5GxItpg6+LCXHVYU7vl3kjTny6SqUMf1xUqhzLQ8iyooVtFrL/6k6/1C4acvj 3Sk+PcZ1ASKd8sfJJ6VqQY3QING+6fzhWWVphU3ASzmziClHHjtdlk8xLssF/CXkQR55 uaboxbJlhrkJShJDFLznL4VPemCh2o0/DfEGNgaEVGrSgN+AFZcIK1Dq1bSZ+idi22Oa X+qg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CQGrvD4dtwKOtYsxwUmpkptDZWmBMTnyYC08iTxQwCw=; b=BVc6e2xgoORZ4CAMRnyboliYtVWzf5y/g3AlAS4QpSMSICA8il53ZcGZ/pviJ1lCMh Qynthd//wcuoAfwszziFCW1GYIqdDgkV7/SMlZnWNFtBLdRSs/anjqx3z661V1vFfkwb TIvQP/J54mw3z32FoLRvuO3zdGSjXLgFHbll7lc8HzmgxBEp1EHEjuG1SWiBbPi84BLq +KWIVET4zzmx2NmOsH/jZXdszSweqGTr9Tm4atRoIfCCls83DwjSvJHJPfFaSov94FSx Rp0UDbNr2acp+peDtjEWJc6u2jkqjGcc07wiPMyC4IE6VFdlYf/O+m+soXTjrPGw7X7C ubAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7d0GR1YfbWzshRkl+5pli/OKt+kM5c1NEGgs2IkhVU+S8oMYBA 6yL+hqoMEi8nuvrEiWXebAJ9fg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMatMRmPtkm9xNDEj/1gRdQD5bHKfW69J+UC9jLkG/2ha2/XVAhiqVxMBVn6UfPbkX1K750aBA== X-Received: by 10.84.241.6 with SMTP id a6mr19751414pll.318.1512500145602; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:6f17:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:6f17:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g17sm1306925pfj.66.2017.12.05.10.55.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Dec 2017 10:55:44 -0800 (PST) To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla Cc: u , "hackathon@ietf.org" References: <87lgih9h7v.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 07:55:43 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87lgih9h7v.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:55:48 -0000 On 06/12/2017 07:12, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On Tue 2017-12-05 17:59:42 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > >> Photo and video policies are delicate things that need to be >> considered carefully. > > Agreed. Has the current policy been considered carefully? The current IETF policy** is written into the "Note Well" that everyone acknowledges when signing up to attend the IETF meeting. I don't recall whether Hackathon-only attendees have to acknowldege the "Note Well" but since the Hackathon is listed in the IETF Meeting agenda my non-lawyerly assumption is that it is covered anyway. Whether still photos are a subset of the set "video recordings" is an interesting question. That aside, respecting individual preferences is IMHO the right thing to do, within the general requirement for IETF procedures to be open [RFC2026 section 1.2]. **"A participant in any IETF activity acknowledges that written, audio and video records of meetings may be made and may be available to the public. " Brian From nobody Tue Dec 5 11:08:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23340124D85 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:08:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JAKxA5o4V8fu for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk (mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.161.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 013ED1243FE for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from BGB01XI1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk (bgb01xi1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk [10.161.14.14]) by mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vB5J8Ihk011998; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:08:18 GMT Received: from BGB01XUD1012.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.10]) by BGB01XI1010.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.14]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:08:18 +0000 From: Lucas Pardue To: Donald Eastlake , Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "hackathon@ietf.org" CC: Eric Rescorla , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , u Thread-Topic: [hackathon] Please redact my picture Thread-Index: AQHTbet5I4Id+8n/z0qWL4UH1TV4/aM0+6MAgAAHhACAAA6LgIAABVOAgAACFaI= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:08:18 +0000 Message-ID: <7CF7F94CB496BF4FAB1676F375F9666A3BAA0D23@bgb01xud1012> References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <878tehaytj.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <13DD81A6-A10A-42B9-A84C-CFD0B7099A85@cisco.com> <87indl9gic.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.19.161.213] x-exclaimer-md-config: c91d45b2-6e10-4209-9543-d9970fac71b7 x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4255-8.100.1062-23512.001 x-tm-as-result: No--26.369400-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:08:30 -0000 Some great points being made. To highlight a few: * Respect: I think dhk's point about respectful photographers is a good one= . Rather than think of restricting them, it could be empowering to identify= in post-production that certain images are not quite appropriate.=20 * name/face correlation: I think the conversation may have evolved off the = original issue. I don't mind having my photo taken but I would rather not h= ave an in-band identifier (captions also count IMO). It would be great if t= here were a badge holder that was visible to the naked eye yet opaque to ca= mera, for those in this bracket. Do such things exist? (Polarizing insert p= lus opposite polarizing lens filter perhaps? :)) * default no-correlation policy in certain arenas. Inform attendees that %P= ROPORTION% of people prefer not to be so easily and permenantly identifiabl= e outside the room/event. Please avoid such photos or inform people that th= ey may be leaking inadvertently. (E.g. I occasionally see colleagues weari= ng a work ID badge on public transport, a little reminder generally leads t= o a hasty removal). Lucas ________________________________________ From: hackathon [hackathon-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Donald Eastlake [= d3e3e3@gmail.com] Sent: 05 December 2017 18:46 To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor; hackathon@ietf.org Cc: Eric Rescorla; Charles Eckel (eckelcu); u Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture The smiley stickers were on the table at registration. You had to stick one on yourself. The IETF meeting is a public open meeting. I am opposed to photography / audio recording / videoing restrictions there. However, the Hackathon is a different thing, witness, for example, its different IPR rules. So, while I have some doubts, I don't oppose trying out photography/recording restrictions at the Hackathon. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote: > On Tue 2017-12-05 17:35:52 +0000, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: >> We do ask at the kickoff of each hackathon if anyone prefers to NOT be >> photographed. Admittedly, this one attempt to identify people misses >> anyone who is not present at that time. I also agree with Ekr that >> while this instance is in regard to the hackathon, the problem and >> solution should extend beyond the hackathon weekend and room and apply >> to the IETF as a whole. > > Getting buy-in for the IETF as a whole sounds like a large undertaking. > if we can do it, that'd be great! > > But we could also model a successful strategy at the hackathon first, > without blocking on the rest of the IETF, and inform the greater IETF of > the result of our experiment. > >> We have never had actually badges for hackathon attendees; rather, >> stickers have been made available for people to write their name to >> attach to their person. > > right, i think the "colored dot" proposal fits best with the hackathon's > traditional nametag approach. I'm happy to foot the bill for a few > sheets of stickers for hackathon 101. > > We should probably choose a color that doesn't collide with anything in > [0]. Maybe a black dot, if that doesn't seem too somber to people? [1] > > [0] https://www.ietf.org/tao.html#rfc.section.3.6 > [1] https://www.staples.com/Avery-Removable-Self-Adhesive-Color-Coding-Ro= und-Labels-28-Labels-Per-Sheet-Black-3-4-Diameter-1-000-Labels-Pk/product_5= 37928 > >> There has been talk of moving to actual badges, and we could probably >> make that happen for the IETF 101 hackathon. If so, we can leverage >> whatever is put in place for IETF as a whole. Different colored badges >> seems a good option to me. > > Again, i'd be happy to not block on bigger changes, but if the bigger > changes happen we should definitely piggyback on them. > > Also, at IETF 100, i didn't get my smileyface logo on my badge, despite > ticking the correct box during registration. i had to draw it on > myself, so i'm not convinced that banking on the IETF badge process > reflecting people's preferences is the way to go. finally, there are > people at the hackathon who do not attend the rest of the IETF. will > those people have badges? > > --dkg > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > _______________________________________________ hackathon mailing list hackathon@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon From nobody Tue Dec 5 11:10:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1874E124D85 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:10:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.534 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.534 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SR5m-TLFs-uE for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.96.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319091243FE for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (bill@grace.encs.concordia.ca [132.205.2.217]) by oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca (envelope-from william.atwood@concordia.ca) (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id vB5JAChp002780 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:10:12 -0500 To: hackathon@ietf.org References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <4E8FEDDC-B869-4E14-AA77-86C98E2CA840@isoc.org> From: William Atwood Organization: Concordia University, Montreal Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:10:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4E8FEDDC-B869-4E14-AA77-86C98E2CA840@isoc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.58 on oldperseverance.encs.concordia.ca at 2017-12-05 14:10:12 EST Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:10:16 -0000 Having read this and the next several posts, I am struck by the fact that Ulrike asked that her name not be visible with her photo, and this has escalated to "people should be able to ask not to be photographed". These are two different things, or, if you wish, two different levels of desired privacy. Bill On 05/12/2017 11:51 AM, IETF Journal wrote: > Hi Ulrike, > > I’ve made that change to the website. Thanks for supplying a substitute image to make this easier. > > I’ll ask about updating the pdf. > > Please accept my apologies for the discomfort the original image caused. > > Regards, > Mat > > Mat Ford > Editor, IETF Journal > >> On 5 Dec 2017, at 13:38, u wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> I've been sent the link to: >> http://www.ietfjournal.org/running-code-is-king-at-ietf-99-in-prague/ >> where I can see my face and read my name tag even if I'd be half blind :) >> >> I've been very careful in the past to not appear somewhere with my >> picture AND name (at least this picture is not text searchable!) You can >> use this photo, but I'd like you to redact the name tag on this picture. >> >> I actually already did that to make your life easier, and uploaded the >> file here: >> https://451f.org/IETF-Hackathon-woman-July-2017-Prague-031.jpg. Please >> exchange the picture as soon as possible with the one where my name is >> readable on the tag. >> >> I know that the picture is also in the PDF of the journal, but in there >> it's at least a little bit smaller, so don't bother redacting this too - >> unless you want to offer me a present for Christmas. >> >> Thank you for your attention, >> Ulrike >> > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > -- Dr. J.W. Atwood, Eng. tel: +1 (514) 848-2424 x3046 Distinguished Professor Emeritus fax: +1 (514) 848-2830 Department of Computer Science and Software Engineering Concordia University EV 3.185 email:william.atwood@concordia.ca 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~bill Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 From nobody Tue Dec 5 11:42:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36EE126C2F for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QghjeOeq7zd3 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.157.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6FE01200FC for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 11:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048208.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048208.ppops.net-00176a04. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB5JfB24023333 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 14:42:31 -0500 Received: from usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com ([216.178.109.236]) by m0048208.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 2ekqq6hgtc-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 14:42:31 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO potemwp00019.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.33.204]) by usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 05 Dec 2017 11:42:30 -0800 Received: from potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) by potemwp00017.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:42:29 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.53) by potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:42:28 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) by potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.032; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 12:42:28 -0700 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla CC: u , "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Thread-Index: AQHTbgEuQF9eYtOhl0uYVjVhN97F0Q== Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 19:42:28 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.3.170325 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [100.126.25.31] x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <154AF0F0CD66F74BA0701B73AFF13F76@NBCUNI.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-05_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712050282 Archived-At: Subject: [hackathon] Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 19:42:36 -0000 On 12/5/17, 10:12 AM, "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" wrote: >| afaict, we're currently discussing the best way that people present at >| the event (all of whom we presume to be acting in good faith) can >| clearly express their preferences in a way that other people can respect >| those preferences. >| >| Surely that's not a dangerous change to make? Discussion as I said is good, however I think we are thinking differently on what should be discussed: I was suggesting that the principle of even being able to ask for selective privacy should be discussed as it is a deviation from what=B9s worked at the last 100 IETF meetings and it differs from what one can expect in regular public space. My point was that the basic policy should be discussed before implementation solutions are developed or tested, because even the basic policy concept has a lot of potential consequences and requirements. For instance - what do we do when people ignore the policy? Do they get excluded from future meetings? Do we force them to delete the photos? Do we give people the right to demand to see the photos someone has taken and then demand they delete them? That then gets intrusive into the privacy of the photographer and their device. Please understand that I am not trying to be hostile to the principle that people should have some control over the use of their image, but the core principle being proposed here differs from what is today common practice supported by the legal system that you can record without permission in public space with specific limitations, but not blanket limitations, around commercial use. And when it=B9s being proposed for including into the entire IETF meeting process, then that touches upon the policy of the meeting sessions being recorded which impacts both transparency and on remote attendees . So this quickly grows to touch a lot of what we do and operate on, and deviates from what has worked for a 100 meetings. On 12/5/17, 10:12 AM, "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" wrote: >| This is not a discussion of adversarial photography -- an >| alternate-colored badge, sticker, button, or lanyard would clearly not >| be a solution to that case. Right? >| >| This is not about abridging the freedoms of photographers. It's about >| giving respectful photographers more information so that they can be >| better informed when taking pictures. This actually makes things easier >| for respectful photographers because they don't have to worry about >| asking people (either before or after taking pictures) whether they're >| ok with being photographed. The devil is always in the details isn=B9t it? Badges can be hard to read= , especially from across a room, and what about when taking the shot from the side or the back of a person? Where is the line with respecting a photographers freedom and the desires of the subjects? Once there is a means to notify someone of your preference does that mean they need to respect it and what recourse does each side have? Once you have a =B3recommendation=B2 for anything, you need to develop what the appropriate response is when that recommendation is ignored otherwise you have policies that some will follow and others will not with no means of reconciling expectations of various parties because everyone isn=B9t following same recommendations. I know the =B3don=B9t photo me notification=B2 approach is used at other ev= ents like Rights Con - how do they deal with people not respecting the request? -glenn > From nobody Tue Dec 5 13:33:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA7512773A for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rswxv27ZlXsn for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC1E31267BB for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 24923F99D; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:33:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 293512059A; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 15:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: William Atwood , hackathon@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <0411146b-36c5-dde5-b700-0edee4ed804a@451f.org> <4E8FEDDC-B869-4E14-AA77-86C98E2CA840@isoc.org> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 15:56:01 -0500 Message-ID: <87shco99ni.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Please redact my picture X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 21:33:11 -0000 On Tue 2017-12-05 14:10:17 -0500, William Atwood wrote: > name not be visible with her photo, and this has escalated to "people > should be able to ask not to be photographed". These are two > different things, or, if you wish, two different levels of desired > privacy. I know more than one person who prefers not to be photographed at all, who would be excellent to have at the IETF hackathon. The current policy, with aggressive pervasive photography makes the space unwelcoming to those people. The original request here reminded me of this fact, and i thought i'd see whether we can improve the situation for the simplest case. There are surely many different variations of desired privacy (it's not even a linear scale), but if we're talking about being able to simply state a preference that can be clearly understood by other parties, finer levels of nuance probably aren't the way to go. --dkg From nobody Wed Dec 6 10:27:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C44127909 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:26:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rZEPXk8VbRK8 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 644D1127286 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E349F99A; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:26:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B33BE2072E; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:26:45 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: "Deen\, Glenn \(NBCUniversal\)" , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , Eric Rescorla Cc: u , "hackathon\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 13:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: <87bmjb67bu.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 18:26:51 -0000 On Tue 2017-12-05 19:42:28 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > I know the ³don¹t photo me notification² approach is used at other events > like Rights Con - how do they deal with people not respecting the request? I reached out to the RightsCon organizers to ask them for more details. Here's what i heard from them: > Here's how we see it, and how we enforce it. Our code of conduct outlines > that participants must *"Respect the privacy rights of participants that do > not wish to be photographed or quoted"* > . > > We have a lanyard based privacy system -- people pick up red lanyards (no > photo) or black lanyards (photo okay) at credential pickup > . It was > resoundingly supported and people really loved the idea. > > For our own photographer on site, he was trained to make sure not to take > photos of folks with red lanyards. For larger group shots where red > lanyards are unavoidable, we literally photoshopped peoples' faces before > sharing them publicly. We were very clear about our photo policy in opening > ceremonies, social media, and through signage at the event. The community > of participants in turn helped enforce the policy. > > I don't know the exact coordination realities of IETF hackathons but can > say that 1) this has worked for us, 2) it was relatively easy to implement, > 3) it is vital for us to respect the privacy of attendees that choose not > to be photographed. Obviously, RightsCon is not the IETF, and their policies are not IETF policies. However, it sounds like it was an easy mechanism, and people generally understood it and held each other accountable for mutual respect. --dkg From nobody Wed Dec 6 11:36:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BADB127BA3 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pwX53BRir4Zy for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.149.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7463126CC4 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0047965.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0047965.ppops.net-00176a04. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB6JWceE008643 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:36:22 -0500 Received: from usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com ([216.178.109.236]) by m0047965.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 2ekspypsap-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 14:36:22 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO potemwp00005.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.33.204]) by usushmgip002.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2017 11:36:21 -0800 Received: from potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) by potemwp00009.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:36:20 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.53) by potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:36:19 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) by potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.032; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 12:36:18 -0700 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla CC: u , "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Thread-Index: AQHTbgEuQF9eYtOhl0uYVjVhN97F0aM3GOCA//+NUwA= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 19:36:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87bmjb67bu.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: <87bmjb67bu.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.3.170325 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [100.126.25.31] x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <8D33423AC9EF8D4FAD23E157DDC9D805@NBCUNI.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-06_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712060276 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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Wed, 06 Dec 2017 12:30:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87bmjb67bu.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 20:29:56 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" Cc: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Daniel Kahn Gillmor , Eric Rescorla , "hackathon@ietf.org" , u Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114edf983ad502055fb1d1a5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 20:30:11 -0000 --001a114edf983ad502055fb1d1a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If we have to go the I-D route, I'm happy to coauhtor. I think it would be great to pilot this for 101 and can devote budget for red lanyards for the hackathon. I see this as an important normative consideration that we can require only paid photogs to adhere to, but it might also make sense for recreational/etc. photogs to signal that they respect this norm. On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 11:36 Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) < Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com> wrote: > That=E2=80=99s interesting how Rights Con handled it by inserting it in a= s a MUST > into their Code of Conduct. The equivalent would be the IETF Note Well > https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html as Brian pointed out. > > While it could be argued that =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=99s a simple experiment t= o just add this > policy on a voluntary basis=E2=80=9D, that could be seen as possibly back= dooring a > policy change into the IETF without it having been openly discussed as a > basic policy change for the iETF. > > The proper way would be for a draft I-D to submitted around amending Note > Well so that it could be considered and discussed. > > > > -glenn > > On 12/6/17, 10:26 AM, "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" wrote= : > > >On Tue 2017-12-05 19:42:28 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > >> I know the =C2=B3don=C2=B9t photo me notification=C2=B2 approach is us= ed at other > >>events > >> like Rights Con - how do they deal with people not respecting the > >>request? > > > >I reached out to the RightsCon organizers to ask them for more details. > >Here's what i heard from them: > > > >> Here's how we see it, and how we enforce it. Our code of conduct > >>outlines > >> that participants must *"Respect the privacy rights of participants > >>that do > >> not wish to be photographed or quoted"* > >> . > >> > >> We have a lanyard based privacy system -- people pick up red lanyards > >>(no > >> photo) or black lanyards (photo okay) at credential pickup > >> . It was > >> resoundingly supported and people really loved the idea. > >> > >> For our own photographer on site, he was trained to make sure not to > >>take > >> photos of folks with red lanyards. For larger group shots where red > >> lanyards are unavoidable, we literally photoshopped peoples' faces > >>before > >> sharing them publicly. We were very clear about our photo policy in > >>opening > >> ceremonies, social media, and through signage at the event. The > >>community > >> of participants in turn helped enforce the policy. > >> > >> I don't know the exact coordination realities of IETF hackathons but c= an > >> say that 1) this has worked for us, 2) it was relatively easy to > >>implement, > >> 3) it is vital for us to respect the privacy of attendees that choose > >>not > >> to be photographed. > > > >Obviously, RightsCon is not the IETF, and their policies are not IETF > >policies. However, it sounds like it was an easy mechanism, and people > >generally understood it and held each other accountable for mutual > >respect. > > > > --dkg > > _______________________________________________ > hackathon mailing list > hackathon@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon > --=20 Joseph Lorenzo Hall Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org] 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 --001a114edf983ad502055fb1d1a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If we have to go the I-D route, I'm happy to coa= uhtor. I think it would be great to pilot this for 101 and can devote budge= t for red lanyards for the hackathon. I see this as an important normative = consideration that we can require only paid photogs to adhere to, but it mi= ght also make sense for recreational/etc. photogs to signal that they respe= ct this norm.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 = at 11:36 Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com> wrote:
That=E2=80=99s interesting how Rights Con handled it by inserting i= t in as a MUST
into their Code of Conduct.=C2=A0 The equivalent would be the IETF Note Wel= l
https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html as Brian poin= ted out.

While it could be argued that =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=99s a simple experiment to = just add this
policy on a voluntary basis=E2=80=9D, that could be seen as possibly backdo= oring a
policy change into the IETF without it having been openly discussed as a basic policy change for the iETF.

The proper way would be for a draft I-D to submitted around amending Note Well so that it could be considered and discussed.



-glenn

On 12/6/17, 10:26 AM, "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wro= te:

>On Tue 2017-12-05 19:42:28 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote:
>> I know the =C2=B3don=C2=B9t photo me notification=C2=B2 approach i= s used at other
>>events
>> like Rights Con - how do they deal with people not respecting the<= br> >>request?
>
>I reached out to the RightsCon organizers to ask them for more details.=
>Here's what i heard from them:
>
>> Here's how we see it, and how we enforce it. Our code of condu= ct
>>outlines
>> that participants must *"Respect the privacy rights of partic= ipants
>>that do
>> not wish to be photographed or quoted"*
>> <https://www.rightscon.org/code-of-conduct/>.
>>
>> We have a lanyard based privacy system -- people pick up red lanya= rds
>>(no
>> photo) or black lanyards (photo okay) at credential pickup
>> <https://twitter.com/rightscon/st= atus/846990310995623937>. It was
>> resoundingly supported and people really loved the idea.
>>
>> For our own photographer on site, he was trained to make sure not = to
>>take
>> photos of folks with red lanyards. For larger group shots where re= d
>> lanyards are unavoidable, we literally photoshopped peoples' f= aces
>>before
>> sharing them publicly. We were very clear about our photo policy i= n
>>opening
>> ceremonies, social media, and through signage at the event. The >>community
>> of participants in turn helped enforce the policy.
>>
>> I don't know the exact coordination realities of IETF hackatho= ns but can
>> say that 1) this has worked for us, 2) it was relatively easy to >>implement,
>> 3) it is vital for us to respect the privacy of attendees that cho= ose
>>not
>> to be photographed.
>
>Obviously, RightsCon is not the IETF, and their policies are not IETF >policies.=C2=A0 However, it sounds like it was an easy mechanism, and p= eople
>generally understood it and held each other accountable for mutual
>respect.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --dkg

_______________________________________________
hackathon mailing list
hackathon@ietf.org<= /a>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon
--
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief = Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 2= 0005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.= 8825, pgp: https://josephhall.or= g/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10=C2=A0 1607 5F86 6987= 40A9 A871
--001a114edf983ad502055fb1d1a5-- From nobody Wed Dec 6 13:09:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444321270A3 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:09:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=retevia.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ne93RVQOiRtt for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDD391200FC for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289303000271E; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=retevia.net; h=date :subject:from:to:cc:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=retevia.net; bh=I9ndj3X3htMBp+1ZFd H+0aWOsLE=; b=rFZNnUYIteVvJFun19MioksZehJHPL57vw/Wk5j4XkuyJuzpje JMAN9mOnUYu4y3eMJVcMSDFVGMqoA3ypwhZ8dGzaVkF+8u9CDjE/Jpt4nogDhxqJ 3ysDwpenrFc9sVEJAVGvWoTHuOGiW7ueRU8ShZX/2vU9cRFUK5mMerYhg= Received: from [192.168.2.160] (wsip-184-185-35-18.dc.dc.cox.net [184.185.35.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: Lee.Howard@retevia.net) by homiemail-a113.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A6F530002726; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:09:08 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:09:07 -0500 From: Lee Howard To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , Eric Rescorla CC: "hackathon@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:09:13 -0000 On 12/6/17, 2:36 PM, "hackathon on behalf of Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" wrote: >That=E2=80=99s interesting how Rights Con handled it by inserting it in as a MUS= T >into their Code of Conduct. The equivalent would be the IETF Note Well >https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html as Brian pointed out. The Hackathon is not the IETF. I can=E2=80=99t find the Hackathon intro slides, but I believe there=E2=80=99s a nuance= d version of the Note Well. Contributions to code projects are not necessarily IETF contributions covered by the Note Well. Someone could write and submit code anonymously on GitHub remotely, so there=E2=80=99s no particular reason we require a record of who contributed, unless we depend on that code for some reason. I therefore think that it=E2=80=99s possible within our legal and policy framewor= k to run a privacy experiment at the Hackathon, but it would have to be abundantly clear that there is no expectation that privacy preferences would be respected at the IETF. > >While it could be argued that =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=99s a simple experiment to just add th= is >policy on a voluntary basis=E2=80=9D, that could be seen as possibly backdooring= a >policy change into the IETF without it having been openly discussed as a >basic policy change for the iETF. I do think the IETF=E2=80=99s requirement and value for transparency can easily b= e in conflict with a preference for privacy or anonymity, and therefore would have to be carefully and broadly discussed before doing anything at the IETF. > >The proper way would be for a draft I-D to submitted around amending Note >Well so that it could be considered and discussed. Lee > >-glenn > >On 12/6/17, 10:26 AM, "Daniel Kahn Gillmor" wrote: > >>On Tue 2017-12-05 19:42:28 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: >>> I know the =C2=B3don=C2=B9t photo me notification=C2=B2 approach is used at other >>>events >>> like Rights Con - how do they deal with people not respecting the >>>request? >> >>I reached out to the RightsCon organizers to ask them for more details. >>Here's what i heard from them: >> >>> Here's how we see it, and how we enforce it. Our code of conduct >>>outlines >>> that participants must *"Respect the privacy rights of participants >>>that do >>> not wish to be photographed or quoted"* >>> . >>> >>> We have a lanyard based privacy system -- people pick up red lanyards >>>(no >>> photo) or black lanyards (photo okay) at credential pickup >>> . It was >>> resoundingly supported and people really loved the idea. >>> >>> For our own photographer on site, he was trained to make sure not to >>>take >>> photos of folks with red lanyards. For larger group shots where red >>> lanyards are unavoidable, we literally photoshopped peoples' faces >>>before >>> sharing them publicly. We were very clear about our photo policy in >>>opening >>> ceremonies, social media, and through signage at the event. The >>>community >>> of participants in turn helped enforce the policy. >>> >>> I don't know the exact coordination realities of IETF hackathons but >>>can >>> say that 1) this has worked for us, 2) it was relatively easy to >>>implement, >>> 3) it is vital for us to respect the privacy of attendees that choose >>>not >>> to be photographed. >> >>Obviously, RightsCon is not the IETF, and their policies are not IETF >>policies. However, it sounds like it was an easy mechanism, and people >>generally understood it and held each other accountable for mutual >>respect. >> >> --dkg > >_______________________________________________ >hackathon mailing list >hackathon@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hackathon From nobody Wed Dec 6 13:15:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FE91270A3 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:15:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lInpTCLRy4x8 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.157.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BECCC1200FC for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049465.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB6LCp42012563 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:15:16 -0500 Received: from usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([173.213.212.135]) by mx0b-00176a04.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2ekrae7yf1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:15:16 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO potemwp00031.mail.tfayd.com) ([10.40.78.204]) by usaoamgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP; 06 Dec 2017 16:15:15 -0500 Received: from potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) by potemwp00009.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:15:12 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.53) by potemwp00032.mail.tfayd.com (100.124.56.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:15:12 -0700 Received: from potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) by potemwp00029.mail.tfayd.com ([100.124.56.53]) with mapi id 15.01.0669.032; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:15:11 -0700 From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" To: Lee Howard , Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" , "Eric Rescorla" CC: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Thread-Index: AQHTbtZzQF9eYtOhl0uYVjVhN97F0aM2wCgA Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:15:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.3.170325 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [100.126.25.31] x-exclaimer-md-config: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <1643037FC8D3194AB60A8E862DAC0A6A@NBCUNI.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-06_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712060298 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:15:21 -0000 On 12/6/17, 1:09 PM, "Lee Howard" wrote: >| The Hackathon is not the IETF. I fully agree that when it started it wasn=B9t the IETF, but isn=B9t is essentially part of the IETF now? While it does have different IPR rules, it is held inside the IEFT event space, it's list on the agenda, and we extended the start if the IETF officially a couple meetings ago to be on Saturday - so hasn=B9t it evolved into being part of the IETF but with special IPR rules ? -glenn > From nobody Wed Dec 6 13:56:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CB4127B52 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:56:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LlXr6WPt6RuX for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59D7B126B72 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 13:56:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2744; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512597395; x=1513806995; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=YFcMpQFlJKP/wPNT/lUKDSbH4lfQyP/Jw8OIVgmLRLk=; b=gSio03EQeYalybtctM9AZ0/+epQMzbe/6U0lP2lWwZTMaVc3DofeN7T6 EFd8WdPqUdHJKgvODtSiM9siN2YrKs2vL4INtKXrwScZfdcyEQ9Sf72r2 rh6c0MpxgKTjEi0PdXBxMVzNfcYPpJLFWJob7OSZIJ3qtZ5CbnIaimNs1 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CfDwDlZiha/51dJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYM9ZnEnB4N7mQABHYFXJoFalT+CAQolhRYCGoU6QhUBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQFrKIUiAQEBBCMRRQwEAgEIEQMBAgMCJgICAjAVCAgCBAENBYojEKkUgieKW?= =?us-ascii?q?gEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ+EIwEpgz8pC4J3gzOBM0IzglsxgjI?= =?us-ascii?q?Fon0Ch3SNI5NbjQGJJQIRGQGBOQE1I4FObxU6KgGBfoRVeIhYgRUBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,369,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="41224853" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Dec 2017 21:56:33 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com (xch-rcd-016.cisco.com [173.37.102.26]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB6LuXXi006642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:56:33 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-RCD-016.cisco.com (173.37.102.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:56:32 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:56:32 -0600 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , Lee Howard , Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Eric Rescorla" CC: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Thread-Index: AQHTbtZzQF9eYtOhl0uYVjVhN97F0aM2wCgA///61AA= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 21:56:32 +0000 Message-ID: <8AA66F9B-AD16-4EDF-9833-8A6E37BF9D99@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.176.43] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5FB9E9D713E47C4798FD48888DF3F7D7@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 21:56:43 -0000 VGhlIElFVEYgaGFja2F0aG9uIG9wZXJhdGVzIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBydWxlcyBvZiB0aGUgSUVURiBO b3RlIFdlbGwuIEhhY2thdGhvbiBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgYWdyZWUgdG8gdGhpcyBkdXJpbmcgdGhl IGhhY2thdGhvbiByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gcHJvY2VzcyBhbmQgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSByZW1pbmRlciBk dXJpbmcgdGhlIGhhY2thdGhvbiBraWNrb2ZmLiBUaGUgZXh0cmEgYml0IGZvciB0aGUgaGFja2F0 aG9uIGlzIGFzIGZvbGxvd3M6DQoNCi0tLQ0KSVBSIGFuZCBDb2RlIENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBHdWlk ZWxpbmUNCg0KQWxsIGhhY2thdGhvbiBwYXJ0aWNpcGFudHMgYXJlIGZyZWUgdG8gd29yayBvbiBh bnkgY29kZS4gVGhlIHJ1bGVzIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGF0IGNvZGUgYXJlIHdoYXQgZWFjaCBwYXJ0 aWNpcGFudCdzIG9yZ2FuaXphdGlvbiBhbmQvb3Igb3BlbiBzb3VyY2UgcHJvamVjdCBzYXlzIHRo ZXkgYXJlLiBUaGUgY29kZSBpdHNlbGYgaXMgbm90IGFuIElFVEYgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uLiBIb3dl dmVyLCBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucywgcHJlc2VudGF0aW9ucywgZGVtb3MsIGV0Yy4sIGR1cmluZyB0aGUg aGFja2F0aG9uIGFyZSBJRVRGIENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMgKHNpbWlsYXIgdG8gQ29udHJpYnV0aW9u cyBtYWRlIGluIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbWVldGluZ3MpLiBUaHVzLCB0aGUgdXN1YWwgSUVURiBw b2xpY2llcyBhcHBseSB0byB0aGVzZSBDb250cmlidXRpb25zLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgY29weXJpZ2h0 LCBsaWNlbnNlLCBhbmQgSVBSIGRpc2Nsb3N1cmUgcnVsZXMuDQotLS0NCg0KVGhpcyBpcyBpbiBh ZGRpdGlvbiB0bywgbm90IGluc3RlYWQgb2YsIHRoZSBOb3RlIFdlbGwuIFlvdSBjYW4gYWNjZXNz IHRoZSBJRVRGIDEwMCBoYWNrYXRob24ga2lja29mZiBzbGlkZXMgaGVyZTogaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRh dHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2Mvc2xpZGVzLTEwMC1oYWNrYXRob24tc2Vzc2EtaGFja2F0aG9u LWtpY2tvZmYvDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCkNoYXJsZXMNCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkRlZW4sIEdsZW5uIChOQkNVbml2ZXJzYWwpIiA8R2xlbm4uRGVlbkBuYmN1 bmkuY29tPg0KRGF0ZTogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBEZWNlbWJlciA2LCAyMDE3IGF0IDE6MTUgUE0NClRv OiBMZWUgSG93YXJkIDxMZWUuSG93YXJkQHJldGV2aWEubmV0PiwgRGFuaWVsIEthaG4gR2lsbG1v ciA8ZGtnQGZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0PiwgQ2hhcmxlcyBFY2tlbCA8ZWNrZWxjdUBjaXNjby5j b20+LCBFcmljIFJlc2NvcmxhIDxla3JAcnRmbS5jb20+DQpDYzogImhhY2thdGhvbkBpZXRmLm9y ZyIgPGhhY2thdGhvbkBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbaGFja2F0aG9uXSBbRVhURVJO QUxdIFJlOiBQaG90byBhbmQgdmlkZW8gcG9saWN5IGF0IEhhY2thdGhvbnMNCg0KICAgIA0KICAg IA0KICAgIE9uIDEyLzYvMTcsIDE6MDkgUE0sICJMZWUgSG93YXJkIiA8TGVlLkhvd2FyZEByZXRl dmlhLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6DQogICAgDQogICAgPnwgVGhlIEhhY2thdGhvbiBpcyBub3QgdGhlIElF VEYuDQogICAgDQogICAgSSBmdWxseSBhZ3JlZSB0aGF0IHdoZW4gaXQgc3RhcnRlZCBpdCB3YXNu wrl0IHRoZSBJRVRGLCBidXQgaXNuwrl0IGlzDQogICAgZXNzZW50aWFsbHkgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUg SUVURiBub3c/DQogICAgDQogICAgV2hpbGUgaXQgZG9lcyBoYXZlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBJUFIgcnVs ZXMsIGl0IGlzIGhlbGQgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBJRUZUIGV2ZW50DQogICAgc3BhY2UsIGl0J3MgbGlz dCBvbiB0aGUgYWdlbmRhLCBhbmQgd2UgZXh0ZW5kZWQgdGhlIHN0YXJ0IGlmIHRoZSBJRVRGDQog ICAgb2ZmaWNpYWxseSBhIGNvdXBsZSBtZWV0aW5ncyBhZ28gdG8gYmUgb24gU2F0dXJkYXkgLSBz byBoYXNuwrl0IGl0IGV2b2x2ZWQNCiAgICBpbnRvIGJlaW5nIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgYnV0 IHdpdGggc3BlY2lhbCBJUFIgcnVsZXMgPw0KICAgIA0KICAgIC1nbGVubg0KICAgID4NCiAgICAN CiAgICANCg0K From nobody Wed Dec 6 14:01:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABA4127B57 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:01:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UbBuhIV16Nn3 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00D18127869 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3B9D0F99A; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:01:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B4C3E2072E; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:01:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: "Deen\, Glenn \(NBCUniversal\)" , Lee Howard , "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "Eric Rescorla" Cc: "hackathon\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 17:01:37 -0500 Message-ID: <87h8t34ita.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 22:01:44 -0000 On Wed 2017-12-06 21:15:11 +0000, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal) wrote: > On 12/6/17, 1:09 PM, "Lee Howard" wrote: > >>| The Hackathon is not the IETF. > > I fully agree that when it started it wasn¹t the IETF, but isn¹t is > essentially part of the IETF now? > > While it does have different IPR rules, it is held inside the IEFT event > space, it's list on the agenda, and we extended the start if the IETF > officially a couple meetings ago to be on Saturday - so hasn¹t it evolved > into being part of the IETF but with special IPR rules ? I agree that the Hackathon is part of the IETF, but the IETF itself is not uniform. The NomCom interviews also happen as part of the IETF, and they have different policies and practices around recording and publicity than do the WG meetings. Likewise, BoFs also have different policies and practices than the Beverage Breaks, and conduct we expect in the Plenary is different from the conduct we expect in the Newcomers Tutorial. Can we dial back this discussion from "how do we fix the whole IETF?" to "how can we make the hackathon a more welcoming place for people who prefer not to be photographed?" please? This discussion is happening on hackathon@ietf.org -- if i came into a WG and asked to boil the ocean i'd (rightly) get told to stand down. :) At the moment, there are a handful of concrete proposals on the table for the hackathon. Probably the easiest thing to get off the ground is two-fold: A) someone volunteers to bring a clear indicator of preference to not be photographed, and makes it available (with a sign explaining it that it means "i prefer to not be photographed") at the same place where nametags are handed out. B) the official photographer for the hackathon gets onboard and tries to avoid including people in the photographs who have explicitly adopted that marker. There are no promises that everyone displaying that marker will be automatically fully excluded from all photography, but well-meaning people operating in good faith can use it as a guide to their actions. I'm volunteering to do (A) -- in keeping with the visual precedent established at RightsCon, i'll bring a stack of red lanyards, and i'll make a sign explaining what they mean and i'll put it on the tables that have the nametags, so people can grab them and use them if they want them. Charles, or any of the other hackathon organizers -- do you have a suggestion about how to get started on (B)? What's the best way to reach out to the photographer to explain what this symbol means? In my experience, if i explicitly tell the photographer that something shouldn't be photographed (e.g. sensitive content in a preliminary version of a demo, private e-mails visible on the screen), he has avoided photographing it. This is just a convenient way to give him that indication automatically about a person. Any thoughts? --dkg, grateful for the productive discussion From nobody Wed Dec 6 14:27:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: hackathon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E7E128656 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:27:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rkj1Qp2HKk18 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C298C127BA3 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:27:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5764; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1512599261; x=1513808861; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=RNwuxAR1Fej6wnXC9NdDMYSI3SO0CkmT9RBUs1vQ0jw=; b=Z90riANGr4xfkR6xPLgE0hqXC2R1Q3Nh0aJm+vwgFusC11PnBIQboY5P MohqzTAuqF3QG5IE6Z5UEb9Ijb7jJX78Z+Aa6WIRthYjsQy3f1VG6INZH BcXADaXFp5cf2PVJ2i82LCzCU+XbIH0Nm/lEuYymbRrew9OXHngAersdy w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A5AgDsbSha/4sNJK1TChkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGDDi+BVycHg3uZHoF9fpgcCoU7AhqFOkMUAQEBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FIgEBAQQjEUUMBAIBCBEDAQIBAgImAgICMBUICAIEAQ0FiiOpKoIniloBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgQ+ETYM/KYFbcTaEdjIQI4JbMYIyBaJ9ApUXgha?= =?us-ascii?q?GEYs0liYCERkBgTkBNiKBTm8VOioBgX6EVXiIWIEVAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.45,369,1508803200"; d="scan'208";a="111432753" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Dec 2017 22:27:40 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com (xch-aln-018.cisco.com [173.36.7.28]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB6MReZX009474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Dec 2017 22:27:40 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:27:40 -0600 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:27:40 -0600 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor , "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" , Lee Howard , Eric Rescorla CC: "hackathon@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons Thread-Index: AQHTbtZzQF9eYtOhl0uYVjVhN97F0aM2wCgAgACCU4D//4E0AA== Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 22:27:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87h8t34ita.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> In-Reply-To: <87h8t34ita.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.28.0.171108 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.176.43] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7510CA9D0158184B9C18077E1951E7AE@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA152128799 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-fYSf5gPY1n for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from che.mayfirst.org (che.mayfirst.org [162.247.75.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FC9B12711E for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 14:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fifthhorseman.net (unknown [38.109.115.130]) by che.mayfirst.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEC7BF99B; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:53:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by fifthhorseman.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 452ED207F1; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:53:31 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor To: "Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)" , "Deen\, Glenn \(NBCUniversal\)" , Lee Howard , Eric Rescorla Cc: "hackathon\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <87h8t34ita.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 17:53:31 -0500 Message-ID: <87a7yv4ges.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [hackathon] [EXTERNAL] Re: Photo and video policy at Hackathons X-BeenThere: hackathon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion regarding past, present, and future IETF hackathons." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 22:53:39 -0000 On Wed 2017-12-06 22:27:39 +0000, Charles Eckel (eckelcu) wrote: > [cue] I can help with (B). We will be working with the same > photographer at the hackathon at IETF 101 as at IETF 100. He has > already been honoring peoples’ privacy on a best effort basis. In the > past, this was done by explicit request by individuals when asked > during the hackathon to identify themselves by raising their hand > during the kickoff or more privately at any time during the > hackathon. In the future, we can try out whatever is agreed to be a > good approach for (A). Thanks a lot! If the photographer has any feedback about what would make their job easier, i'd be happy to hear from them. I'll mock up a sign explaining the lanyards to hackathon participants in the coming weeks, and float it here on-list for feedback. If the photographer wants to participate in the discussion (or to propose a different sign), please let me know. i'm happy to talk with him off-list too, if he doesn't do mailing lists :) --dkg