From matt@advanced.org Fri May 5 07:00:48 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA13714 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 07:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA00150 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Fri, 5 May 2000 06:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA05581 for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 06:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13229; Fri, 5 May 2000 06:40:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200005051040.GAA13229@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ippm@advanced.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 06:40:21 -0400 Sender: nsyracus@cnri.reston.va.us --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network performance measurement for periodic streams Author(s) : V. Raisanen, G. Grotefeld Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt Pages : 17 Date : 04-May-00 This document describes some of the issues associated with application-level measurements of network performance for periodic streams. An example application would be the testing of Dst-Src routes for use as bearer for multimedia streams. In this document, the reader is assumed to be familiar with the terminology of the Framework for IP Performance Metrics RFC 2330 [1]. This document is parallel to A One-way Delay Metric for IPPM RFC 2679[2]. A sample metric is described that is suitable for application-level measurement for streaming multimedia over IP. Using such a measurement, transmission service of a network is probed with a traffic stream similar to that of the application of interest, which is likely to be very dissimilar to the Poisson inter-arrival interval described in [2]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000504082118.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000504082118.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From matt@advanced.org Mon May 8 22:15:13 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26345 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 22:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA12777 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Mon, 8 May 2000 22:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from NS.r-net.sk (root@NS.r-net.sk [193.58.193.10]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA07960 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 22:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jakab (Kosice55.r-net.sk [193.58.192.183]) by NS.r-net.sk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id DAA24473; Tue, 9 May 2000 03:59:29 +0200 Message-ID: <004e01bfb95b$1e796d20$b7c03ac1@jakab> From: "jakab frantisek" To: Cc: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: ATMTU 2000 in Slovakia Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 03:00:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0C1B_01BFB962.B44AD580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0C1B_01BFB962.B44AD580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Accept my apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call. Please = forward to your colleagues. = ___________________________________________________________ The deadline for abstract submission is quickly = approaching (May) = ___________________________________________________________ =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS SYMPOSIUM ATMTU 2000 13 - 15 September 2000 Kosice, Slovakia =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Dear colleagues, Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a special issue of The ATMTU 2000 = Symposium.=20 Detailed information about the Symposium and registration form 4you will = also fing on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk. The Symposium will be devoted to exchange of experiences in = implementation and operation of the broad-band networks based on the ATM technology, = presentation of=20 verified applications and presentation of the offered services. It will = promote the ATM=20 technology transfer between the producers and customers - users of the = ATM technology. In framework of the Symposium we are preparing an exhibition of new = products and=20 components of the ATM technology, applications, measurement equipment, = etc. The exhibition will be held in the same location as the Symposium. = Companies and institutions will have an opportunity to exhibit their products and = advertise them among the specialists and potential customers. Also, a special session will be = devoted to=20 introducing their products and applications (short lectures in duration = of approx. 10-20 min.).=20 In the plenary session we expect a presentation of the ambassadors of = the ATM Forum and also presentation of important business, academical and public = representative. Yours sincerely, Organising Committee ATMTU 2000 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Scope of the Symposium The Symposium will be devoted to the: a.. Presentation and sharing of experiences in the implementation and = operation = of the broad-band = networks based on ATM technologies=20 b.. Presentation of verified ATM based applications=20 c.. Presentation of the offered services=20 d.. Perspectives of the ATM based technologies=20 Aims of the Symposium a.. To support dissemination of experiences pursuant to ATM technology = utilisation=20 b.. To get an extensive base of future customers and users=20 c.. To support various forms of links among users and service = providers.=20 The Symposium will be open for the exhibition of new ATM products and = services. Symposium Structure and Suggested Topics for Papers Symposium will consist of plenary sessions and technical sessions. Plenary Session I.(1st day of the Symposium) Presentations of topics of general interest, e.g. building the = "information highways" = in the = international context, strategic aims of governmental institutions etc. = = =20 Plenary Session II. (2nd day of the Symposium) Presentations of the world leading a.. vendors=20 b.. operators=20 c.. investors=20 d.. integrators and=20 e.. users of the ATM technology.=20 Presentations of the implemented pilot projects and services in the ATM = based networks. Technical Sessions: Technical sessions will be held on the second day of the Symposium, in = parallel = with the Plenary Session = II. It is proposed for general audience and specialists from = = research, industry and academic institutions, intending to = present their experiences = and = recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will = cover the following = topics:=20 a.. Comparison of ATM technologies from the view of their = implementation, protection = of investments = and further development=20 b.. Standardisation of the ATM technology=20 c.. Multimedia applications (videoconferencing etc.)=20 d.. Broadband services and quality of services=20 e.. Broadband networks management=20 f.. Security in the broadband networks=20 g.. Future of the ATM technology=20 Exhibition The Symposium will promote ATM technology transfer between producers and = users. = Producers and institutions will have the = opportunity to present new products, components, = = applications, measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on = same premises = as the Symposium. Symposium Languages Slovak, Czech and English are the official languages of the symposium.=20 Symposium Proceedings The proceedings will be published in time for the Symposium. Each = registered participant = will receive the = proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD). Contributions Authors intending to submit a paper are welcome to mail in 1 page: a.. (approx. 300 words) of abstract on A4 standard sheet=20 b.. borders 2,5 cm=20 c.. Times New Roman or similar font, 12 p.,=20 d.. in one of the symposium languages.=20 The abstract should be headed as follows: a.. Title of the paper=20 b.. Author's name(s)=20 c.. Affiliation=20 d.. Mailing address.=20 The deadline is 10 of May 2000.=20 If you need extension for few days, please let us know in advance - = = we will try to accomodate such requests. The Organising Committee will also accept abstracts processed by the "MS = Word" = text editor and mailed to the = Organising Committee by Internet. Authors of papers, = = selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with = instructions for full papers. = . Deadlines 1.. Acceptance of registration forms and abstracts and/or proposals to = exhibition 10 May 2000 2.. Notification of acceptance, rules for full paper preparation and = Second Call 30 May 2000 3.. Receipt of full paper and advanced registration 15 August 2000 4.. Last information and Final Program 25 August 2000=20 All deadlines are as per postmark. Venue Presentation hall and associated lecture halls at the Technical = University, Letna 9, Kosice, Slovak Republic. Optional Agenda On the third day of the Symposium one of the following optional programs = will be at your disposal: a.. either technical program - visit to see the advanced ATM solutions = b.. or a trip, according to the choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine = region) with the social program.=20 Registration Fee It is supposed that the registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. = The PhD. students presenting = their contributions will have = 30 % discount from the registration fee. The details will be announced in the Second Announcement. Information about Kosice Kosice, the metropolis of Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich = history. It has always been = a town of both national and = international significance. Kosice belongs to the most beautiful and = lovely = cities in Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently = renewed historical centre. Towering over the centre = is the = gothic Cathedral of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508. In last decades Kosice quickly expanded and at the present there are = nearly 250 thousands of inhabitants. = It is the second largest city = in the Slovak Republic (after the capital - Bratislava) and is the = centre of the = industrial activities, business and commerce, = communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping, cultural = and = leisure activities for the whole Eastern Slovakia.=20 The first in-town university was established in 1657. At present there = are five universities. = Technical University of = Kosice, established in 1952, with over 11 500 students, consists of = eight faculties. = The Faculty of Electrical Engineering and = Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution of = = higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information = technologies. The education programs = are firmly linked with = research and scientific activities. Address and Contact ATMTU 2000 Symposium Secretariat Martina Atanasova elfa, s.r.o. Letna 9 042 00 Kosice, Slovak Republic Tel.:+421-95-62 538 39, 62 53202 Fax: +421-95-62 532 00 E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk ------=_NextPart_000_0C1B_01BFB962.B44AD580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Accept my apologies if you receive multiple = copies of=20 this call. Please forward to your=20 colleagues.
       =20        =20 ___________________________________________________________=
       &nbs= p;            = ; =20 The deadline for abstract submission is quickly approaching=20 (May)
       &nbs= p;      =20 ___________________________________________________________=
 
          &nbs= p; =20 THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS=20 SYMPOSIUM
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;    =20 ATMTU = 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20 13 - 15 September 2000
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;   Kosice,=20 Slovakia
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

Dear colleagues,

Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a = special issue=20 of The ATMTU 2000 Symposium.

Detailed information about the = Symposium and=20 registration form 4you will  also fing
on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk.
The Symposium = will be=20 devoted to exchange of experiences in  implementation = and
operation of the broad-band = networks based=20 on the ATM technology, presentation of
verified applications and = presentation of the=20 offered services. It will promote the ATM
technology transfer between the = producers and=20 customers - users of the ATM technology.
In framework of the Symposium we are = preparing=20 an exhibition of new products and
components of the ATM technology, = applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc.
The exhibition will be held in the = same location=20 as the Symposium. Companies and
institutions will have an opportunity = to=20 exhibit their products and advertise them among
the specialists and potential = customers. Also, a=20 special session will be devoted to
introducing their products and = applications=20 (short lectures in duration of approx. 10-20 min.).
In the plenary session we expect a = presentation=20 of the ambassadors of the ATM Forum
and also presentation of important = business,=20 academical and public representative.
 
Yours sincerely,

Organising = Committee=20 ATMTU=20 2000
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
Scope of=20 the Symposium

The Symposium will = be devoted to=20 the:

  • Presentation and = sharing of=20 experiences in the implementation and operation          &nbs= p;            = ;       =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     of=20 the broad-band networks based on ATM technologies=20
  • Presentation of = verified ATM=20 based applications=20
  • Presentation of = the offered=20 services=20
  • Perspectives of = the ATM based=20 technologies

Aims of the=20 Symposium

  • To support = dissemination of=20 experiences pursuant to ATM technology utilisation=20
  • To get an = extensive base of=20 future customers and users=20
  • To support = various forms of=20 links among users and service providers.

The Symposium will = be open for=20 the exhibition of new ATM products and services.

Symposium = Structure and=20 Suggested Topics for Papers

Symposium will = consist of=20 plenary sessions and technical sessions.

Plenary=20 Session I.(1st day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of = topics of=20 general interest, e.g. building the "information=20 highways"          =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;=20 in the international context, strategic aims of governmental = institutions=20 etc.           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;           =20

Plenary=20 Session II. (2nd day=20 of the Symposium)

Presentations of the = world=20 leading

  • vendors=20
  • operators=20
  • investors=20
  • integrators = and=20
  • users of the ATM=20 technology.

Presentations of the = implemented=20 pilot projects and services in the ATM based networks.

Technical=20 Sessions:

Technical sessions = will be held=20 on the second day of the Symposium, in parallel   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             with the Plenary Session = II. It is=20 proposed for general audience and specialists from   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 research, industry and academic institutions, intending to present their = experiences           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     and=20 recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The = session will=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             cover the = following=20 topics: 

  • Comparison of ATM = technologies from the view of their implementation, protection=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         of investments and further=20 development=20
  • Standardisation = of the ATM=20 technology=20
  • Multimedia = applications=20 (videoconferencing etc.)=20
  • Broadband = services and=20 quality of services=20
  • Broadband = networks=20 management=20
  • Security in the = broadband=20 networks=20
  • Future of the ATM = technology
Exhibition

The Symposium will = promote ATM=20 technology transfer between producers and users.   =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             Producers and=20 institutions will have the opportunity to present new products, = components,=20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             applications,=20 measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on same=20 premises         =    =20             =    =20               &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;          =20 as the Symposium.

Symposium=20 Languages

Slovak, Czech and = English are=20 the official languages of the symposium.

Symposium=20 Proceedings

The proceedings will = be=20 published in time for the Symposium. Each registered=20 participant           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             will receive = the=20 proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD).

Contributions

Authors intending to = submit a=20 paper are welcome to mail in 1 page:

  • (approx. 300 = words) of=20 abstract on A4 standard sheet=20
  • borders 2,5 = cm=20
  • Times New Roman = or similar=20 font, 12 p.,=20
  • in one of the = symposium=20 languages.

The abstract should = be headed as=20 follows:

  • Title of the = paper=20
  • Author's = name(s)=20
  • Affiliation=20
  • Mailing = address.=20

The deadline is = 10=20 of May 2000.

If you need = extension=20 for few days,  please let us know in advance -    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =     we=20 will try to accomodate such = requests.

The Organising Committee will = also accept=20 abstracts processed by the "MS Word"    =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     text editor and mailed to the Organising = Committee by=20 Internet. Authors of papers,        =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with instructions = for full=20 papers.           =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           =20 .

Deadlines
  1. Acceptance of = registration=20 forms and abstracts and/or proposals to exhibition

    10 May=20 2000
  2. Notification of = acceptance,=20 rules for full paper preparation and Second Call

    30 May=20 2000
  3. Receipt of full = paper and=20 advanced registration

    15 August 2000
  4. Last information = and Final=20 Program

    25 August 2000     
 
 All=20 deadlines are as per postmark.
Venue

Presentation hall and=20 associated lecture halls at the Technical University,
Letna 9, = Kosice, Slovak=20 Republic.

Optional=20 Agenda

On the third day of = the=20 Symposium one of the following optional programs will be at your=20 disposal:

  • either technical = program -=20 visit to see the advanced ATM solutions=20
  • or a trip, = according to the=20 choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine region) with the social program. =
Registration = Fee

It is supposed that = the=20 registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. The PhD. students=20 presenting           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             their = contributions=20 will have 30 % discount from the registration fee.

The details will be = announced in=20 the Second Announcement.

Information = about=20 Kosice

Kosice, the = metropolis of=20 Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich history. It has always=20 been           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  =20 a town of both national and international significance. Kosice belongs = to the=20 most beautiful and lovely    =      =20              =20             =20             =    =20             =    =20                = cities in=20 Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently renewed historical centre. = Towering=20 over the centre           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             is the gothic = Cathedral=20 of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508.

In last decades Kosice = quickly=20 expanded and at the present there are nearly 250 thousands of=20 inhabitants.           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     It is the second largest city in the Slovak Republic = (after=20 the capital - Bratislava) and is the centre of the   =20            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         industrial activities, business = and=20 commerce, communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping,=20 cultural           =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         and leisure activities for the = whole=20 Eastern Slovakia.

The first in-town university was established = in 1657.=20 At present there are five universities.     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Technical University of Kosice, established in 1952, = with=20 over 11 500 students, consists of eight faculties.    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         The Faculty of Electrical = Engineering and=20 Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution=20 of            =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information=20 technologies. The education programs     =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20         are firmly linked with research = and=20 scientific activities.

Address and=20 Contact
ATMTU = 2000=20 Symposium Secretariat
Martina Atanasova
elfa,=20 s.r.o.
Letna 9
042 00 Kosice, Slovak = Republic

Tel.:+421-95-62 538=20 39, 62 53202
Fax: +421-95-62 532 00
E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk

------=_NextPart_000_0C1B_01BFB962.B44AD580-- From matt@advanced.org Tue May 9 08:41:01 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17342 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 08:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA27566 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Tue, 9 May 2000 08:32:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from kcmso1.proxy.att.com (kcmso1.att.com [192.128.133.69]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22432 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 08:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hogpa.mt.att.com ([135.16.74.2]) by kcmso1.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-2.2) with SMTP id IAA04000 for ; Tue, 9 May 2000 08:32:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from acmortonw by hogpa.mt.att.com (SMI-8.6/ATTEMS-1.4.1 sol2) id IAA12933; Tue, 9 May 2000 08:32:07 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.20000509083205.0068c8fc@hogpa.mt.att.com> X-Sender: acm1@hogpa.mt.att.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:32:06 -0400 To: ippm@advanced.org From: Al Morton Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ippm@advanced.org, New Draft, a few more suggestions: Section 3.2, first Paragraph, 3rd sentence: "End-to-end delay may be best managed in the general case by assigning maximum per-domain quotas (e.g. 50 ms for a particular IP domain)." I agree that in some cases, delay can be managed on a per-domain basis by setting only a maximum. An example would be where the max delay threshold for a domain is very low (e.g., 10 ms), and the application is fairly tolerant of end-end delay variation. However, the general case must evaluate: * Domains with long 1-way delays (>100 ms). * Domains with considerable delay variation (100 ms Max, >80 ms range for a sample). * Applications of periodic streams with stringent delay variation requirements. So the general case should include both delay max and some measure of delay variation (ipdv, or 1-way delay range). You could mention this general case, then go on to describe the case where a Max delay quota may be sufficient. Section 3.5.2 Paired one way measurement, second paragraph. "Moreover, paired one way delay measurement emulates a full-duplex VoIP call more accurately than a single one-way measurement only." To motivate paired one way measurement, it may be helpful to cite the possible reasons for better accuracy. For example: - Performance of some 1-way links depends on conditions in the reverse direction. - Many two-way real-time applications have unsatisfactory performance if packet transfer suffers in a single direction. (more to follow) Al From matt@advanced.org Thu May 11 06:23:33 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23298 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 06:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id GAA02497 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Thu, 11 May 2000 06:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com (mgw-x1.nokia.com [131.228.20.21]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA19827 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 06:09:54 -0400 (EDT) From: vilho.raisanen@nokia.com Received: from mgw-i1.ntc.nokia.com (mgw-i1.ntc.nokia.com [131.228.118.60]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/o) with ESMTP id NAA03179; Thu, 11 May 2000 13:09:13 +0300 (EETDST) Received: from esebh03nok.ntc.nokia.com (esebh03nok.ntc.nokia.com [131.228.118.244]) by mgw-i1.ntc.nokia.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22073; Thu, 11 May 2000 13:09:11 +0300 (EETDST) Received: by esebh03nok with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) id ; Thu, 11 May 2000 13:09:09 +0300 Message-ID: <01D91AFB08B6D211BFD00008C7EABAE101F535B2@eseis04nok> To: ippm@advanced.org Cc: acmorton@att.com Subject: RE: draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:09:03 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.10) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by betelgeuse.advanced.org id GAA10215 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Al, thanks for the comments. The per-domain issue should (and will) be further clarified along the lines that you outlined. The quoted sentence in the draft is really a placeholder for more detailed information, and I have some references for that. Regards, Vilho %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Vilho Räisänen vilho.raisanen@nokia.com Nokia Research Center, Helsinki, Finland %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > -----Original Message----- > From: EXT Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > Sent: 09. May 2000 15:32 > To: ippm@advanced.org > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ippm-npmps-01.txt > > > ippm@advanced.org, > New Draft, a few more suggestions: > > Section 3.2, first Paragraph, 3rd sentence: > "End-to-end delay may be best managed in the general case > by assigning maximum per-domain quotas (e.g. 50 ms for a > particular IP domain)." > > I agree that in some cases, delay can be managed > on a per-domain basis by setting only a maximum. An example > would be where the max delay threshold for a domain > is very low (e.g., 10 ms), and the application is fairly > tolerant of end-end delay variation. > However, the general case must evaluate: > * Domains with long 1-way delays (>100 ms). > * Domains with considerable delay variation (100 ms Max, >80 ms range > for a sample). > * Applications of periodic streams with stringent delay variation > requirements. > So the general case should include both delay max and some measure of > delay variation (ipdv, or 1-way delay range). You could mention this > general case, then go on to describe the case where a Max delay quota > may be sufficient. > > Section 3.5.2 Paired one way measurement, second paragraph. > "Moreover, paired one way delay measurement emulates a full-duplex > VoIP call more accurately than a single one-way measurement only." > > To motivate paired one way measurement, it may be helpful to cite > the possible reasons for better accuracy. For example: > - Performance of some 1-way links depends on conditions in the reverse > direction. > - Many two-way real-time applications have unsatisfactory > performance if > packet transfer suffers in a single direction. > > (more to follow) > Al > From matt@advanced.org Thu May 11 11:47:28 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01018 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 11:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA08729 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Thu, 11 May 2000 11:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA10147 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 11:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA27018 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 08:37:10 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exw10.corp.mot.com (il06exw10.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.81]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA09373 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 08:37:09 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exw10.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 11 May 2000 10:37:09 -0500 Message-ID: <23DBE2EFD4D5D3119616009027E32671133E9C@il06exm23.corp.mot.com> From: Grotefeld Glenn-cecl03 To: "'ippm'" Subject: Liaison statement regarding "Network performance measurement for periodic streams" Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 10:37:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: ippm working group From: Glenn Grotefeld, Motorola, Inc. co-author, Network performance measurement for periodic streams The following is the text of a "liaison" sent from a North American Standards Development Organization (SDO), Committee T1A1.3, regarding version -00 of the Internet-Draft. Since version -01 was posted on 04 May, some of the comments have been superseded. Within the text is a point-by-point response to the liaison that will be sent back to T1A1.3 by separate note. As always, questions/comments/clarifications that advance work on the Internet-Draft are welcome. DISCLOSURE: Aside from being a co-author of this draft, I am also vice-chair of T1A1.2, which works in parallel with T1A1.3, the working group providing this liaison. ******************* LIAISON/RESPONSE START ******************* To: Will Leland and Matt Zekaukas - IPPM Co-Chairs Subject: T1A1 Comments on Network Performance Measurement with Periodic Streams (draft 00) Will and Matt, At its April meeting, Working Group T1A1.3 reviewed the Internet draft "Network Performance Measurement with Periodic Streams (draft 00)" currently under development in the IPPM Working Group. T1A1.3 supports the development of this Internet draft and others like it. Such cooperative work with tight linkages between the definitions of the relevant T1 and ITU-T standards and actual IETF metrics to assess performance enhances the usefulness of both outputs. Specific comments on draft-00 follow. 1. The Results/Statistics section (4.9) appears consistent with the packet transfer outcomes defined in ITU-T/Rec. Y.1540 (ex I.380). It is likely that ITU-T and T1A1 will reference the approved version of this draft as a method of measurement in future standards, such as Draft Rec. Y.1541. GG: Noted. I.380 (not checked in its successor, Y.1540) makes a number of references to RFC 2330, the framework document for this Internet-Draft. I support the effort to "harmonize" these documents where appropriate. 2. T1A1.3 believes that there is a need to handle step delay changes during a delay measurement. This could be handled by using small test intervals, or sliding window evaluation. GG: Noted. Proposed text would be most useful. 3. The example definition of delay Jitter in section 4.2.4 needs clarification. It was noted that the Jitter measurement is suitable in this document, since its scope is end-to-end measurement. T1A1.3 noted that evaluating delay variation at intermediate points (between domains, or with hybrid networks) may require the set of 1-way packet transfer delays as a basis. This would be a useful extension of the current draft. GG: There are significantly different schools of thought between the authors regarding "jitter" within the scope of this Internet-Draft. In fact, in the -01 version of the document, the term jitter has been replaced with Successive Delay Variation (Consecutive Delay Variation was considered as a title, but not used to prevent confusion with CDV as used in ATM circles). You can expect to see much more debate on "jitter" as this document progresses. GG:I also refer you to the end of section 3.5 of the document: "It is also possible to have intermediate measurement points between MP(Src) and MP(Dst), but that is beyond the scope of this document." 4. The Tcon parameter in section 4.2.1 needs clarification. It does not seem to be used or defined elsewhere in the draft. Specific code to implement the metric may be helpful in this regard. GG: Noted. I think you will find version -01 clarifies the use of "Tcons". 5. Although the scope of this document is end-end IP transport of periodic packet streams, the measurements should be applicable in the evaluation of the entire IP portion of a hybrid PSTN-IP network. This application of the metric would be useful to T1A1.3 in its ongoing work. GG: Noted. 6. The current metric, focused on delay, is very close to the alternate definition of IP Packet delay variation in Appendix II (II.3) of Y.1540 (ex I.380). With a little work it appears that this single metric could be modified to provide a metric for this version of IP packet delay variation. GG: This author would dispute that this Internet-Draft is "focused on delay". Delay is ONE OF a number of measurable parameters of interest. This Internet-Draft also is concerned about duplicate packets, which was not covered in I.380. GG: The jitter (version -00) or Successive Delay Variation (version -01) is very close to the definition of IP packet delay variation in Y.1540. GG: FINAL NOTE: Again, this author STRONGLY ENCOURAGES all interested parties in T1A1.3 to join the ippm e-mail list and express their views to the entire working group. In this author's view, there are no planned changes to version -01 based on this liaison. ******************* LIAISON/RESPONSE STOP ******************* Glenn Grotefeld Motorola, Inc. g.grotefeld@motorola.com US 847 576-5992 847 538-7455 FAX From matt@advanced.org Thu May 18 17:55:17 2000 Received: from betelgeuse.advanced.org (betelgeuse.advanced.org [199.222.103.10]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13507 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 17:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from guest@localhost) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA23020 for ippm-l@advanced.org; Thu, 18 May 2000 17:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by betelgeuse.advanced.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23607 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 17:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA16722 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 14:42:54 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from il06exw10.corp.mot.com (il06exw10.corp.mot.com [199.5.78.81]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-mothost 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA04273 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 14:42:53 -0700 (MST)] Received: by il06exw10.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 18 May 2000 16:42:53 -0500 Message-ID: <23DBE2EFD4D5D3119616009027E32671133EB0@il06exm23.corp.mot.com> From: Grotefeld Glenn-cecl03 To: "'ippm'" Subject: Guaranteed and timely message delivery Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:56:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" [My apologies to those of you who receive this from multiple mailing lists. - GG] Wall Street Journal, 15 May 2000 (non-interactive edition) A brief article discussed a new startup, Slam Dunk Networks Inc. "The new venture, Slam Dunk Networks, Inc. is betting that Web performance will be unacceptable when new business exchanges start zapping purchase orders and payments around. The Redwood City, Calif., company plans to address the problem by setting up server computers in 20 locations around the world and reformulating the data for private, efficient transport. It sends at lease two copies of each message, choosing different Internet routes to each destination. These redundant systems, Mr. Miller says, will allow a bold promise: guaranteed delivery of any message anywhere in the world in four seconds. Slam dunk has raised $50 million from an unusual group of blue-chip investors, including Cisco Systems Inc., American Express Co., Oracle Corp., SAP AG, Adobe Systems Inc. and Tibco Software Inc. ... And what happens if the messages don't arrive when Slam Dunk promises? 'We're working on that,' Mr. Miller says. 'We will have insurance in case we screw up.' " Glenn Grotefeld Motorola, Inc. g.grotefeld@motorola.com US 847 576-5992 847 538-7455 FAX