From nobody Tue Aug 1 05:33:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01C7126BF3; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:33:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics@ietf.org, ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ietf@trammell.ch, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150159081084.9662.4666780650195437302.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 05:33:30 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-i?= =?utf-8?q?etf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:33:31 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- High level comment: I still (compared to an earlier review I did during the first wg last call) think that the document could benefit from a mayor editorial pass that aims to remove redundancy (especially in section 8) and hopefully would lead to a much shorter document in the end. Especially the split between section 6, 7 and 8 is not always clear. It would actually be nice if the general model aspects and its applicability to one traffic class with the assumption that self-clocked, loss/CE-based congestion control is used would be separated more clearly. This would also help to separate generally reasoning from the test and evaluation instructions and make those more clear and understandable (in the sense that concrete implementation guidelines for both the tests and the evaluation seem quite hidden between all the other text at the moment). However, I understand that this is a lot of work and probably not appropriate at this state of processing. Processing comment: The references are not split into normative and informative. I guess most references including draft-ietf-tcpm-rack are informative. Indicating this clearly in two separate reference sections would also address the editor comment in 1.1 regarding draft-ietf-tcpm-rack. Various, mostly editorial comments: - The terminology mentions open loop. I would recommend to also note in the intro that these are open loop tests (compared to using TCP traffic directly). - ECN should be spelled out somewhere and RFC3168 should be referred (informatively). - It seems that the currently specified metrics and tests assume ack-clocked and loss/ECN-based congestion control. This might also worth stating in the intro given quic is experimenting with rate-based schemes. - Regarding the list at the end of section 4.1 on bursts: Shouldn't the initial window (which is usually today more than 4 packets) be mentioned additionally? - Network power could be defined in the terminology section. - It might also be useful to spell out more clearly in the intro that for these tests both endpoints (of the subpath under test) need to be under control of the tester. - As mentioned several times in the document, some of the tests are not intended for frequent monitoring tests as the high load can impact other traffic negatively. This should be re-stated clearly in the security considerations. From nobody Wed Aug 2 06:25:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBA91320CB; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 06:25:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H0zp3t4yeV8b; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 06:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7570D1320B8; 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02 Aug 2017 13:31:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (xch-rtp-018.cisco.com [64.101.220.158]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v72DV4Pc011115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:31:04 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (64.101.220.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 09:31:03 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 09:31:03 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWhf1LkHlOXUe+18aWC5YpTQ== Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 13:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.116.133] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ED9E6D07FFCF4756A2D858CC859B8D4Eciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 13:31:07 -0000 --_000_ED9E6D07FFCF4756A2D858CC859B8D4Eciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBJUFBNLA0KDQpUaGlzIGVtYWlsIHN0YXJ0cyBhbiBJUFIgY2FsbCBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRm LWlwcG0tYWx0LW1hcmstMDYsIGluIHByZXBhcmF0aW9uIHRvIGRvY3VtZW50IGFkdmFuY2VtZW50 Lg0KDQpBcmUgeW91IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt aXBwbS1hbHQtbWFyay0wNj8NCklmIHNvLCBoYXMgdGhpcyBJUFIgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgaW4g Y29tcGxpYW5jZSB3aXRoIElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIChzZWUgUkZDcyAzOTc5LCA0ODc5LCAzNjY5 IGFuZCA1Mzc4IGZvciBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHMpLg0KDQpUaGVyZSBpcyBvbmUgSVBSIGRpc2Nsb3N1 cmUgZmlsZWQgZGlyZWN0bHkgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LXRlbXBpYS1pcHBtLXAzbToNCmh0 dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaXByLzI1NTcvDQoNCl9BY3Rpb25fOg0KDQpJZiB5 b3UgYXJlIGxpc3RlZCBhcyBhIGRvY3VtZW50IGF1dGhvciwgZWRpdG9yLCBvciBjb250cmlidXRv ciBwbGVhc2UgcmVzcG9uZCB0byB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciBvciBu b3QgeW91IGFyZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgcmVsZXZhbnQgSVBSLiBUaGVzZSByZXNwb25zZXMgYXJl IG5lZWRlZCBmb3IgdGhlIHNoZXBoZXJkIHF1ZXN0aW9ubmFpcmUuDQoNCklmIHlvdSBhcmUgb24g dGhlIElQUE0gV0cgZW1haWwgbGlzdCBidXQgYXJlIG5vdCBsaXN0ZWQgYXMgYW4gYXV0aG9yIG9y IGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLCB0aGVuIHBsZWFzZSBleHBsaWNpdGx5IHJlc3BvbmQgb25seSBpZiB5b3Ug YXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBoYXMgbm90IHlldCBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZCBpbiBj b25mb3JtYW5jZSB3aXRoIElFVEYgcnVsZXMuDQoNClRoaXMgcG9sbCB3aWxsIHJ1biBmb3IgYSB3 ZWVrLCBvciB1bnRpbCBhbGwgY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIHJlc3BvbmQuDQoNClRoYW5rcyENCg0K4oCU DQpDYXJsb3MgUGlnbmF0YXJvLCBjYXJsb3NAY2lzY28uY29tPG1haWx0bzpjYXJsb3NAY2lzY28u Y29tPg0KDQrigJxTb21ldGltZXMgSSB1c2UgYmlnIHdvcmRzIHRoYXQgSSBkbyBub3QgZnVsbHkg dW5kZXJzdGFuZCwgdG8gbWFrZSBteXNlbGYgc291bmQgbW9yZSBwaG90b3N5bnRoZXNpcy4iDQoN Cg== --_000_ED9E6D07FFCF4756A2D858CC859B8D4Eciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; 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Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:14:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nb-10604.ethz.ch (account ietf@trammell.ch [82.130.102.91] verified) by switchplus-mail.ch (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPSA id 25336228 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 16:14:41 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_705999F7-EB4E-41DD-A0B6-7BD5A1E8BFCA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <6995DF9D-CD73-4DAB-BE04-94096A5E00F6@trammell.ch> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:14:40 +0200 Message-Id: <1CD38A0C-9016-427D-AA3D-071019491D6F@trammell.ch> References: <6995DF9D-CD73-4DAB-BE04-94096A5E00F6@trammell.ch> To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:14:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_705999F7-EB4E-41DD-A0B6-7BD5A1E8BFCA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings, all, Seeing not very much continuing traffic about this on the list, it seems = we may have converged within the WG; many thanks all for the productive = conversation in Chicago! We'll leave this thread open until Friday 4 August, and send up what we = have for a request for rechartering then. Thanks, cheers, Brian (as chair) > On 25 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Brian Trammell (IETF) = wrote: >=20 > Greetings, all, >=20 > Following our meeting in Prague (minutes forthcoming), here's where I = think we are with the suggested new charter. Track changes view in = Google Docs at: = https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Q5tIcv2b6oQ9tL_dS90N_ApREZZpSJJxmk-Jn= wx3z8/edit?usp=3Dsharing >=20 > The new charter text, in full, appears below. >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Thanks, cheers, >=20 > Brian (as chair) >=20 >=20 > The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and = maintains standard metrics that can be applied to the quality, = performance, and reliability of Internet data delivery services and = applications running over transport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over = IP. It also develops and maintains methodologies and protocols for the = measurement of these metrics. These metrics, protocols, and = methodologies are designed such that they can be used by network = operators, end users, or independent testing groups. Metrics developed = by the IPPM WG are intended to provide unbiased quantitative performance = measurements. >=20 > The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics = and measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is = limited to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over = transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations = required for measurements over non-IP layers. >=20 > The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and = procedures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The = working group will continue advancing the most useful of these metrics = along the standards track, using the guidelines stated in RFC 6576. To = the extent possible, these metrics will be used as the basis for future = work on metrics in the WG. >=20 > The WG will seek to develop new metrics and models to more accurately = characterize the network paths under test and/or the performance of = transport and application layer protocols on these paths. The WG will = balance the need for new metrics with the desire to minimize the = introduction of new metrics, and will require that new metric = definitions state how the definition improves on an existing metric = definition, or assesses a property of network performance not previously = covered by a defined metric. Metric definitions will follow the template = given in RFC 6390. >=20 > Additional methods will be defined for the composition and calibration = of IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and hybrid = measurement methods for these metrics. In addition, the WG encourages = work which describes the applicability of metrics and measurement = methods, especially to improve understanding of the tradeoffs involved = among active, passive, and hybrid methods. >=20 > The WG may update its core framework RFC 2330 as necessary to = accommodate these activities. >=20 > The WG has produced protocols for communication among test equipment = to enable the measurement of the one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and = TWAMP respectively). These protocols will be advanced along the = standards track. The work of the WG will take into account the = suitability of measurements for automation, in order to support = large-scale measurement efforts. This may result in further developments = in protocols such as OWAMP and TWAMP. >=20 > Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement = enables accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different = implementations. To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of = metric definitions. >=20 > The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of = measurements of IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG = also encourages work which improves the availability of information = about the context in which measurements were taken, for example (but not = limited to) measurement implementation information, estimates of = confidence in these measurements, conditions on the network(s) on which = measurements are taken, and/or information about the data-plane topology = of these network(s). >=20 > In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data = formats and information models for the storage and exchange of the = results of measurements defined within IPPM. >=20 > The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies = and forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF = process, IPPM metric definitions and measurement protocols will be = subject to as rigorous a scrutiny for usefulness, clarity, and accuracy = as other protocol standards. The IPPM WG will interact with other areas = of IETF activity whose scope intersects with the requirement of these = specific metrics. The WG will, on request, provide input to other IETF = working groups on the use and implementation of these metrics. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_705999F7-EB4E-41DD-A0B6-7BD5A1E8BFCA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZgd5RAAoJEIoSt78L6kajvZ4P/AnQ/7rWdv+ppQPVJhN3koUV izoLwlnIvJoRLyEkfHkA/TxA0CrryIxosEFPoMt00ybgInRTHr2awpkMMQeSxG7U HLXbE6tYnTRGFph2h5ZfWLKa8OrDpNGa96Jmgm8hg7hhd3mIYw+npJUA981jsDIe njN1pJDJZhlYEZzTSaZ9NCJUjdD+tMY9gWFKzpsOrRt10Pd1BV1mFViLs6juOoEa d6U81ibpOFC3Eay9yPLeJkJ/uVQfSrQhKu/Nf0/UdQtL7IW+5kF5XWIqwyeBQzOU iMM44nM3FWH6neUY4cIy+4If2tvwVOBb4X6bWF5njsKl1cCEGp6nkWQOXFJrC5Z7 hYwbtQroGJnGVBbtyfQ6bh7/JE3+OPzJ2Fr6lD6KBjbKozCEvgmesgmPavsqb8QW 2IJnxh6zN8DgU98SLn16QbLjXtKtp4/X2eLAlpnt38Wy+QUl9zu7fgKG/qWKUlIC sw1F4hoM6dQEZNs9SZMLlQv2XuDuNm+G/+woPP8cHj5DnJ0OxTJ702tf+blmyAyn lCgQKvxI9Nbs8NXN4SwC+NmZT1vq41Dl30JkE5sN3FjCCAySkM0KQjZ6xbQJNUGa 0bz62DDyghPjUDzNt3BoOBCKiznRSyc4bmhUNYWhKDgD74/kebJ8wyOjf3CXjcGr W+zoyXtCKUAujIrChMz/ =ierM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_705999F7-EB4E-41DD-A0B6-7BD5A1E8BFCA-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 07:24:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21ADC132079 for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Aug 2017 14:24:21.2796 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR07MB3204 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 14:24:26 -0000 Hi Brian, The only minor consideration that comes to mind is possibly removing the wo= rd "more" from this sentence. "The WG will seek to develop new metrics and= models to more accurately characterize the network paths under test and/or= the performance of transport and application layer protocols on these path= s. The WG will balance the need for new metrics with the desire to minimize= the introduction of new metrics, and will require that new metric definiti= ons state how the definition improves on an existing metric definition, or = assesses a property of network performance not previously covered by a defi= ned metric. Metric definitions will follow the template given in RFC 6390." Thanks, Footer -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell (IETF= ) Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 10:15 AM To: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion Greetings, all, Seeing not very much continuing traffic about this on the list, it seems we= may have converged within the WG; many thanks all for the productive conve= rsation in Chicago! We'll leave this thread open until Friday 4 August, and send up what we hav= e for a request for rechartering then. Thanks, cheers, Brian (as chair) > On 25 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Brian Trammell (IETF) wrote: >=20 > Greetings, all, >=20 > Following our meeting in Prague (minutes forthcoming), here's where I thi= nk we are with the suggested new charter. Track changes view in Google Docs= at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Q5tIcv2b6oQ9tL_dS90N_ApREZZpSJJxm= k-Jnwx3z8/edit?usp=3Dsharing >=20 > The new charter text, in full, appears below. >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Thanks, cheers, >=20 > Brian (as chair) >=20 >=20 > The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and maintain= s standard metrics that can be applied to the quality, performance, and rel= iability of Internet data delivery services and applications running over t= ransport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over IP. It also develops and main= tains methodologies and protocols for the measurement of these metrics. The= se metrics, protocols, and methodologies are designed such that they can be= used by network operators, end users, or independent testing groups. Metri= cs developed by the IPPM WG are intended to provide unbiased quantitative p= erformance measurements. >=20 > The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics and = measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is limited= to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over transport-layer pro= tocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations required for measuremen= ts over non-IP layers. >=20 > The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and proce= dures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The working g= roup will continue advancing the most useful of these metrics along the sta= ndards track, using the guidelines stated in RFC 6576. To the extent possib= le, these metrics will be used as the basis for future work on metrics in t= he WG. >=20 > The WG will seek to develop new metrics and models to more accurately cha= racterize the network paths under test and/or the performance of transport = and application layer protocols on these paths. The WG will balance the nee= d for new metrics with the desire to minimize the introduction of new metri= cs, and will require that new metric definitions state how the definition i= mproves on an existing metric definition, or assesses a property of network= performance not previously covered by a defined metric. Metric definitions= will follow the template given in RFC 6390. >=20 > Additional methods will be defined for the composition and calibration of= IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and hybrid measurement me= thods for these metrics. In addition, the WG encourages work which describe= s the applicability of metrics and measurement methods, especially to impro= ve understanding of the tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybri= d methods. >=20 > The WG may update its core framework RFC 2330 as necessary to accommodate= these activities. >=20 > The WG has produced protocols for communication among test equipment to e= nable the measurement of the one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and TWAMP resp= ectively). These protocols will be advanced along the standards track. The = work of the WG will take into account the suitability of measurements for a= utomation, in order to support large-scale measurement efforts. This may re= sult in further developments in protocols such as OWAMP and TWAMP. >=20 > Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement ena= bles accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different implem= entations. To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of metric d= efinitions. >=20 > The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of measurements o= f IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG also encourages wor= k which improves the availability of information about the context in which= measurements were taken, for example (but not limited to) measurement impl= ementation information, estimates of confidence in these measurements, cond= itions on the network(s) on which measurements are taken, and/or informatio= n about the data-plane topology of these network(s). >=20 > In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data form= ats and information models for the storage and exchange of the results of m= easurements defined within IPPM. >=20 > The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies and= forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF proce= ss, IPPM metric definitions and measurement protocols will be subject to as= rigorous a scrutiny for usefulness, clarity, and accuracy as other protoco= l standards. The IPPM WG will interact with other areas of IETF activity wh= ose scope intersects with the requirement of these specific metrics. The WG= will, on request, provide input to other IETF working groups on the use an= d implementation of these metrics. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Wed Aug 2 08:01:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2DA13212E for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:01:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfMfXPoxLEwz for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7675B131E96 for ; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10432; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1501686068; x=1502895668; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=pk6frt3WzZtKI/s8eRhLaQt9lXiSOleRiSbaj7iBLDg=; b=W5LRwwBfhbC3AVgwd7UuvxplaHZ9b02JifD+RIirLNUAh0H5uSzrGKmg p32pvHjjSIjSZhClkSInVUHwjZQq9YyL2p953eRlqqdSV+cGdO0N1rlk1 ygx8TinDKJMisk0priR5PFNzOgJJtGqwlxECztzrk/3Jh3VSdGha4KhRv 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DDAAAu6IFZ/4wNJK1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgy0tZG0nB44HkASBbpYQDoIELIUbAoQ1PxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?YAQEBAQIBDiwrGQcEAgEIEQQBAQEVCQkHMhQJCAIEAQkJCIofCBCwJItNAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDKIICgUyBY4MnhDAJExNThTUFn3wCh1GDTIk?= =?us-ascii?q?EghaQN4lajCABHzhMPncVh2N2hywBJYEMgQ8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,311,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="277799121" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 02 Aug 2017 15:01:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (xch-rcd-008.cisco.com [173.37.102.18]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v72F17l6011248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 2 Aug 2017 15:01:07 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 10:01:06 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 10:01:06 -0500 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion Thread-Index: AQHTBVTo0QB8UJENj0WtkwsiKJPAc6JoH6OAgAkVrnA= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 15:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: <2198b843da404031babd41bc4e5cb386@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com> References: <6995DF9D-CD73-4DAB-BE04-94096A5E00F6@trammell.ch> <75B99782-03D1-4D74-9C43-C40A5C3D3FC2@trammell.ch> In-Reply-To: <75B99782-03D1-4D74-9C43-C40A5C3D3FC2@trammell.ch> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.117.7] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 15:01:11 -0000 Thanks Brian. The changes reflect the discussion in the WG meeting in Pragu= e - and I do support them. Regards, Frank -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell (IETF= ) Sent: Donnerstag, 27. Juli 2017 17:16 To: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion Several people have noted that viewers of the Google Doc can't see the diff= s. Here's a diff -U 3 of the two charters: --- charter-05.txt 2017-07-27 11:12:52.000000000 -0400 +++ charter-06-00.txt 2017-07-27 11:13:07.000000000 -0400 @@ -1,12 +1,19 @@ -The IP Performance Metrics (IPPM) Working Group develops and maintains sta= ndard -metrics that can be applied to the quality, performance, and reliabi= lity of -Internet data delivery services and applications running over tran= sport layer -protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over IP. Specifying network or lowe= r layer OAM -mechanisms is out of scope of the IPPM charter. It also devel= ops and maintains -protocols for the measurement of these metrics. These me= trics are designed such -that they can be used by network operators, end us= ers, or independent testing -groups. Metrics developed by the IPPM WG are i= ntended to provide unbiased -quantitative performance measurements and not = a value judgement. + +The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and=20 +maintains standard metrics that can be applied to the quality,=20 +performance, and reliability of Internet data delivery services and=20 +applications running over transport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP)=20 +over IP. It also develops and maintains methodologies and protocols for th= e measurement of these metrics. +These metrics, protocols, and methodologies are designed such that they=20 +can be used by network operators, end users, or independent testing=20 +groups. Metrics developed by the IPPM WG are intended to provide=20 +unbiased quantitative performance measurements. + +The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics=20 +and measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is=20 +limited to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over=20 +transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations=20 +required for measurements over non-IP layers. The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and proced= ures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The working g= roup will @@ -21,9 +28,7 @@ will require that new metric definitions state= how the definition improves on an existing metric definition, or assesses= a property of network performance not previously covered by a defined met= ric. Metric definitions will follow the -template given in RFC 6390. It is = possible that new measurement protocols will -be needed to support new metr= ics; if this is the case, the working group will be -rechartered to develop= these protocols. +template given in RFC 6390. Additional methods will be defined for the composition and calibration of = IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and hybrid measurement me= thods @@ -44,11 +48,19 @@ Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement enab= les accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different implem= entations. -To this end, the WG will define and maintain a registry of metric definiti= ons. +To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of metric definitions= . + The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of measurements of= IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG also encourages wor= k which improves the availability of information about the context in whic= h measurements -were taken. +were taken, for example (but not limited to) measurement implementation=20 +information, estimates of confidence in these measurements, conditions=20 +on the +network(s) on which measurements are taken, and/or information about=20 +the data-plane topology of these network(s). + +In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data=20 +formats and information models for the storage and exchange of the=20 +results of measurements defined within IPPM. The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies and = forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF proce= ss, IPPM @@ -58,22 +70,3 @@ with the requirement of these specific metrics= . The WG will, on request, provide input to other IETF working groups on t= he use and implementation of these metrics. - -Specific near-term milestones include: - -1. Advancement of protocols for one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and TWAMP -respectively) along the standards track. - -2. Update of the IPPM framework document (RFC 2330) to reflect experience = with -the framework, and to cover planned future metric development. - -3. Definition of a registry of metric definitions to improve the equivalen= cy of -metric results across multiple implementations. - -4. Publication of a rate measurement problem statement. - -5. Publication of documents supporting the use of IPSec to protect OWAMP /= -TWAMP. - -6. Publication of documents related to model-based TCP bulk transfer capac= ity Cheers, Brian > On 25 Jul 2017, at 10:47, Brian Trammell (IETF) wrote: >=20 > Greetings, all, >=20 > Following our meeting in Prague (minutes forthcoming), here's where I=20 > think we are with the suggested new charter. Track changes view in=20 > Google Docs at:=20 > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Q5tIcv2b6oQ9tL_dS90N_ApREZZpSJJxm > k-Jnwx3z8/edit?usp=3Dsharing >=20 > The new charter text, in full, appears below. >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Thanks, cheers, >=20 > Brian (as chair) >=20 >=20 > The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and maintain= s standard metrics that can be applied to the quality, performance, and rel= iability of Internet data delivery services and applications running over t= ransport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over IP. It also develops and main= tains methodologies and protocols for the measurement of these metrics. The= se metrics, protocols, and methodologies are designed such that they can be= used by network operators, end users, or independent testing groups. Metri= cs developed by the IPPM WG are intended to provide unbiased quantitative p= erformance measurements. >=20 > The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics and = measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is limited= to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over transport-layer pro= tocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations required for measuremen= ts over non-IP layers. >=20 > The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and proce= dures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The working g= roup will continue advancing the most useful of these metrics along the sta= ndards track, using the guidelines stated in RFC 6576. To the extent possib= le, these metrics will be used as the basis for future work on metrics in t= he WG. >=20 > The WG will seek to develop new metrics and models to more accurately cha= racterize the network paths under test and/or the performance of transport = and application layer protocols on these paths. The WG will balance the nee= d for new metrics with the desire to minimize the introduction of new metri= cs, and will require that new metric definitions state how the definition i= mproves on an existing metric definition, or assesses a property of network= performance not previously covered by a defined metric. Metric definitions= will follow the template given in RFC 6390. >=20 > Additional methods will be defined for the composition and calibration of= IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and hybrid measurement me= thods for these metrics. In addition, the WG encourages work which describe= s the applicability of metrics and measurement methods, especially to impro= ve understanding of the tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybri= d methods. >=20 > The WG may update its core framework RFC 2330 as necessary to accommodate= these activities. >=20 > The WG has produced protocols for communication among test equipment to e= nable the measurement of the one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and TWAMP resp= ectively). These protocols will be advanced along the standards track. The = work of the WG will take into account the suitability of measurements for a= utomation, in order to support large-scale measurement efforts. This may re= sult in further developments in protocols such as OWAMP and TWAMP. >=20 > Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement ena= bles accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different implem= entations. To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of metric d= efinitions. >=20 > The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of measurements o= f IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG also encourages wor= k which improves the availability of information about the context in which= measurements were taken, for example (but not limited to) measurement impl= ementation information, estimates of confidence in these measurements, cond= itions on the network(s) on which measurements are taken, and/or informatio= n about the data-plane topology of these network(s). >=20 > In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data form= ats and information models for the storage and exchange of the results of m= easurements defined within IPPM. >=20 > The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies and= forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF proce= ss, IPPM metric definitions and measurement protocols will be subject to as= rigorous a scrutiny for usefulness, clarity, and accuracy as other protoco= l standards. The IPPM WG will interact with other areas of IETF activity wh= ose scope intersects with the requirement of these specific metrics. The WG= will, on request, provide input to other IETF working groups on the use an= d implementation of these metrics. >=20 From nobody Wed Aug 2 08:44:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7301131C33; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:44:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXAFlj8F02fh; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.telecomitalia.it (mx02.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 835C7124B18; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 08:44:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a97916-6f5ff70000000fc5-fb-5981f34067b2 Received: from TELMBXA02RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.26]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx02.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 19.2D.04037.043F1895; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 17:44:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Fioccola Giuseppe To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWhf1LkHlOXUe+18aWC5YpTaJxMPOg Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 15:43:59 +0000 Message-ID: <0ab8c7f9e81a486881d1db28d6c1e18e@TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: 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multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11428e80cd97f10555c9004b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-?= =?utf-8?q?ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:58:00 -0000 --001a11428e80cd97f10555c9004b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just checking ... On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind = wrote: > Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > High level comment: > I still (compared to an earlier review I did during the first wg last cal= l) > think that the document could benefit from a mayor editorial pass that > aims to > remove redundancy (especially in section 8) and hopefully would lead to a > much > shorter document in the end. Especially the split between section 6, 7 an= d > 8 is > not always clear. It would actually be nice if the general model aspects > and > its applicability to one traffic class with the assumption that > self-clocked, > loss/CE-based congestion control is used would be separated more clearly. > This > would also help to separate generally reasoning from the test and > evaluation > instructions and make those more clear and understandable (in the sense > that > concrete implementation guidelines for both the tests and the evaluation > seem > quite hidden between all the other text at the moment). However, I > understand > that this is a lot of work and probably not appropriate at this state of > processing. > > Processing comment: > The references are not split into normative and informative. I guess most > references including draft-ietf-tcpm-rack are informative. Indicating thi= s > clearly in two separate reference sections would also address the editor > comment in 1.1 regarding draft-ietf-tcpm-rack. > > Various, mostly editorial comments: > - The terminology mentions open loop. I would recommend to also note in t= he > intro that these are open loop tests (compared to using TCP traffic > directly). > - ECN should be spelled out somewhere and RFC3168 should be referred > (informatively). - It seems that the currently specified metrics and test= s > assume ack-clocked and loss/ECN-based congestion control. This might also > worth > stating in the intro given quic is experimenting with rate-based schemes.= - > Regarding the list at the end of section 4.1 on bursts: Shouldn't the > initial > window (which is usually today more than 4 packets) be mentioned > additionally? > - Network power could be defined in the terminology section. - It might > also be > useful to spell out more clearly in the intro that for these tests both > endpoints (of the subpath under test) need to be under control of the > tester. - > As mentioned several times in the document, some of the tests are not > intended > for frequent monitoring tests as the high load can impact other traffic > negatively. This should be re-stated clearly in the security > considerations. > This is on tomorrow's telechat. Any thoughts from the authors/working group about Mirja's comments? Thanks, Spencer --001a11428e80cd97f10555c9004b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just checking ...

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind <i= etf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
= Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<= wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics/



-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
COMMENT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

High level comment:
I still (compared to an earlier review I did during the first wg last call)=
think that the document could benefit from a mayor editorial pass that aims= to
remove redundancy (especially in section 8) and hopefully would lead to a m= uch
shorter document in the end. Especially the split between section 6, 7 and = 8 is
not always clear. It would actually be nice if the general model aspects an= d
its applicability to one traffic class with the assumption that self-clocke= d,
loss/CE-based congestion control is used would be separated more clearly. T= his
would also help to separate generally reasoning from the test and evaluatio= n
instructions and make those more clear and understandable (in the sense tha= t
concrete implementation guidelines for both the tests and the evaluation se= em
quite hidden between all the other text at the moment). However, I understa= nd
that this is a lot of work and probably not appropriate at this state of processing.

Processing comment:
The references are not split into normative and informative. I guess most references including draft-ietf-tcpm-rack are informative. Indicating this<= br> clearly in two separate reference sections would also address the editor comment in 1.1 regarding draft-ietf-tcpm-rack.

Various, mostly editorial comments:
- The terminology mentions open loop. I would recommend to also note in the=
intro that these are open loop tests (compared to using TCP traffic directl= y).
- ECN should be spelled out somewhere and RFC3168 should be referred
(informatively). - It seems that the currently specified metrics and tests<= br> assume ack-clocked and loss/ECN-based congestion control. This might also w= orth
stating in the intro given quic is experimenting with rate-based schemes. -=
Regarding the list at the end of section 4.1 on bursts: Shouldn't the i= nitial
window (which is usually today more than 4 packets) be mentioned additional= ly?
- Network power could be defined in the terminology section. - It might als= o be
useful to spell out more clearly in the intro that for these tests both
endpoints (of the subpath under test) need to be under control of the teste= r. -
As mentioned several times in the document, some of the tests are not inten= ded
for frequent monitoring tests as the high load can impact other traffic
negatively. This should be re-stated clearly=C2=A0 in the security consider= ations.

This is on tomorrow's telec= hat. Any thoughts from the authors/working group about Mirja's comments= ?

Thanks,

Spencer=C2=A0
--001a11428e80cd97f10555c9004b-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 16:23:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D453F1241FC; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 16:23:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics@ietf.org, ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ietf@trammell.ch, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150171621586.5787.1695210858720419313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 16:23:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 23:23:36 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics-11: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-model-based-metrics/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The abstract is overly long (long enough to run onto the second page.) That seems to detract from the purpose of an abstract. Can it be shortened to a paragraph or two? From nobody Wed Aug 2 23:26:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0DF132225; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:26:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SwKm5akGHmIN; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE4F11321FD; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id t201so6520119wmt.0; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 23:26:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LTrg9+RdTRTv9EDykMuvieduxRTGLaPQtBXxC385OTo=; b=jKMbMVURN57+ItYdxt9iftmaB5sQL1er0sJImlkwKFm955Z7Cfa82QSvqgK9OOjT6h cO7HosNV7j7E9zrAaw6T00B0EJg9WgyubZgvofjq0us6rR5RuzWtRMvu9KtAMS1TfLBk a/2nDjmBHYjQlDnN9gzAsnErdfZoC5DJ5uFg+9MCuNrdKA8JgDNi/OGRzKy7KhKro3k+ 7YoiAVATRYGqIJYBoOPZCPE9W1ULagkl+pZ8IYxInJ+7zgzGrJ4YwTTDCgnNNpeRgvh+ 8la7VK7pOStqpQlpOUeBuGICadkDGz2wgDsCd+OtcKMmdQt/QLxtRNOpZLPEODGEd+TS sucw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LTrg9+RdTRTv9EDykMuvieduxRTGLaPQtBXxC385OTo=; b=CbZ1qUFZzdLAWj0rTLhgCmmGDIXaOpY2NlXO5v0/rtN/hIymjG5MGFYn/VaTfCGVyX UH6kJ2m2r63XlA49ejK149/8IWQYntXzqn+VAbLuXVk6yki+DVApwbgL6t/OSyJzXLy2 N+16p+UGU3oHs6zWw4Mz7qKMYc1A8wlG+bNIgKeb3foHyxHfOtDxrDQtkXXFflqRYaD9 DfARGfI0zOmTIA8q/IlHxRWBQLpOYC+Xy/p/1VFgR7hyC16jaPivVnkg3lX4YG52xwcu Y7IX8fNd2i89rxGTZm6Mq0l3aBXeFiR4lsr7VYEsXCd9j9mtZxxEfCIwCILYfktKweFt BRlw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113fPCgoeBmonjTqR0Sykvw/ZLWE/l7rnMD6aLcOSAm5KciPf5J5 ylzy9GTa7KJXRAFX+st6ABOOdfhA2A== X-Received: by 10.80.139.65 with SMTP id l59mr804448edl.52.1501741596340; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 23:26:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.170.13 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:26:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:26:36 +0300 Message-ID: To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c194a0664f5d70555d376d2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 06:26:40 -0000 --94eb2c194a0664f5d70555d376d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am not aware of any IPRs related to this draft beyond the ones already reported. Cheers, Tal. On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > Dear IPPM, > > This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06, in > preparation to document advancement. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06? > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see > RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this > draft-tempia-ippm-p3m: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2557/ > > _Action_: > > If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contributor please > respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > relevant IPR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnaire. > > If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors respond. > > Thanks! > > =E2=80=94 > Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com > > *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma= ke myself > sound more photosynthesis."* > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > --94eb2c194a0664f5d70555d376d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am not aware of any IPRs related = to this draft beyond the ones already reported.

Ch= eers,
Tal.

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata= ) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
Dear IPPM,

This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06, in prepa= ration to document advancement.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06?<= /div>
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (= see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this draft-tempia-i= ppm-p3m:

_Action_:

If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contributor please = respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any rel= evant IPR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnaire.

If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as an author o= r contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any = IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors respond.

Thanks!

=E2=80=94
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0carlos@cisco.com

=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma= ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis."


_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--94eb2c194a0664f5d70555d376d2-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 00:37:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D6C131D25; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 00:37:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LhyWvEqaaWzx; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 00:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx08.telecomitalia.it (mx08.telecomitalia.it [156.54.233.144]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A333131687; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 00:37:01 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 0abc652c-857ff70000009aaa-0d-5982d29be6df Received: from TELMBXD09BA020.telecomitalia.local ( [10.112.45.41]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx08.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id EA.23.39594.B92D2895; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:36:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Capello Alessandro To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWhf1LkHlOXUe+18aWC5YpTaJyPlyg Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 07:36:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.14.252.250] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_facf11db8b924b33ae1bbb425dd07701TELMBXD09BA020telecomit_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCVaCrqTv7UlOkwfQZ4haf3u1gsWhbO5nR 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(PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DLW23850; Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:38:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.32) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:38:12 +0100 Received: from DGGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.135]) by DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::89ed:853e:30a9:2a79%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:38:09 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" , "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWhf1LkHlOXUe+18aWC5YpTaJyaPvw Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:38:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: 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--_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE291852E7Adggeml508mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 05:49:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E5D128961; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 05:49:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2MAaeHh8bRzw; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 05:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.telecomitalia.it (mx01.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDEF0131D32; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 05:49:20 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: d9a9790a-f03ff700000004ef-25-59831bce7c38 Received: from TELMBXA06RM001.telecomitalia.local ( [10.14.252.34]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx01.telecomitalia.it () with SMTP id 8D.9C.01263.ECB13895; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 14:49:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Cociglio Mauro To: "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" , "Carlos Pignataro, (cpignata)" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWhf1LkHlOXUe+18aWC5YpTaJylq9z Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:49:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_r40aniiiokh32f0mlbsvqhlg1501764554008emailandroidcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrEKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxfdHSfecdHOkwcuVihaf3u1gsWhbO5nR oufBO2YHZo8pvzeyeixZ8pMpgCmqgdEmMS8vvySxJFUhJbU42VbJJbM4OScxMze1SCEkNSc1 OT9XSSEzxVbJWEmhICcxOTU3Na/EVimxoCA1L0XJjksBA9gAlWXmKaTmJeenZOal2yp5Bvvr WliYWuoaKtkFlqYWl+Qr5KYWFyemp2fmK6QmrBfMePC9i6Xgm3rF3tk6DYxTlboYOTkkBEwk vh1fwdLFyMUhJDCVSWLP5D/sIAk2ATOJM1uesYEkRASaGCWer9jIBpJgFlCQeLSmiRXEFhYw l7jZfIsJxBYRsJT41ryDBcI2kni1dSPYIBYBFYn5a/rBbF4BN4nDc4+B9QoJ2EhcWrkbbCan gK3EvZnLwGoYBWQlJuxexAixS1zixfQT7BCXCkgs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rhG0gsXXpPhYIW0Zi 4ZHJrBC9ORLXutYwQewVlDg58wnLBEaRWUjGzkJSNgtJGUTcQOL9ufnMELa2xLKFr6FsfYmN X84yIosvYGRfxSiaW2FgqFcCicvMksSczES9zJJNjMCEcnNlJdcOxternA8xCnAwKvHwxos2 RwqxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4RWXAgrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9i9AGG3kRmKdHkfGCyyyuJNzSx sDQ0trAwMrQwM8UhrCTOy6bTECkkkA5MbNmpqQWpRTDjmDg4pRoYo/t9PD0cb2RotHUsmvc5 KmzLEceqHE6NqxuX7b04a8XZjdOK+ZY2RAi9NWRos6gtmHLlsY9kVVPc74bZe0zyJz5dpvhy 2bp1/Td75P5/t/7/OJE1jH/dU5Vw/9RwrYdMJqYaqhPfnFO3nFfO9/LpOcd/F3bsVlW51f4l buEiC/abW9f7HZ5crMRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAMRcvIZVAwAA Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] R: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:49:24 -0000 --_000_r40aniiiokh32f0mlbsvqhlg1501764554008emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I=92m not aware of any IPRs except for those already disclosed. Regards, Mauro ---- Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) ha scritto ---- Dear IPPM, This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06, in preparation= to document advancement. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RF= Cs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this draft-tempia-ippm-p3= m: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2557/ _Action_: If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contributor please respon= d to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant I= PR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnaire. If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as an author or cont= ributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR tha= t has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors respond. Thanks! =97 Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com =93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself= sound more photosynthesis." Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_r40aniiiokh32f0mlbsvqhlg1501764554008emailandroidcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable


Hi,

I=92m not aware of any IPRs except for those already disclose= d.

Regards,

Mauro



---- Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) ha scritto ----

Dear IPPM,

This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06= , in preparation to document advancement.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt= -mark-06?
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF I= PR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this draf= t-tempia-ippm-p3m:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2557/ 

_Action_:

If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contribut= or please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware o= f any relevant IPR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnair= e.

If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as a= n author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are awar= e of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.=

This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors res= pond.

Thanks!

=97
Carlos Pignataro, carlos= @cisco.com

=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, t= o make myself sound more photosynthesis."

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle= persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante d= alla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di da= rne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil= eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,= printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessa= rio.
--_000_r40aniiiokh32f0mlbsvqhlg1501764554008emailandroidcom_-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 06:38:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDB6131F5A for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:37:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lx8LUavx5ABI for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from capri.iway.ch (capri.iway.ch [IPv6:2001:8e0:40:325::45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C352D131FF2 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gozo.iway.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34053406D5; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ACF/18338.2238); Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from switchplus-mail.ch (switchplus-mail.ch [212.25.8.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gozo.iway.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nb-10604.ethz.ch (account ietf@trammell.ch [82.130.102.91] verified) by switchplus-mail.ch (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPSA id 25433522; Thu, 03 Aug 2017 15:37:30 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_53D64361-A61D-4778-AABB-DCEDCEBB8256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:37:29 +0200 Cc: IETF IPPM WG Message-Id: <1D84344E-930D-4498-AF25-03AE131EEAC9@trammell.ch> References: <6995DF9D-CD73-4DAB-BE04-94096A5E00F6@trammell.ch> <1CD38A0C-9016-427D-AA3D-071019491D6F@trammell.ch> To: "Foote, Footer (Nokia - CA)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:37:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_53D64361-A61D-4778-AABB-DCEDCEBB8256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi Foote, This word survives from the old charter, but sure, dropping "more" here = is a fine thing to do. :) Cheers, Brian > On 02 Aug 2017, at 16:24, Foote, Footer (Nokia - CA) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Brian, >=20 > The only minor consideration that comes to mind is possibly removing = the word "more" from this sentence. "The WG will seek to develop new = metrics and models to more accurately characterize the network paths = under test and/or the performance of transport and application layer = protocols on these paths. The WG will balance the need for new metrics = with the desire to minimize the introduction of new metrics, and will = require that new metric definitions state how the definition improves on = an existing metric definition, or assesses a property of network = performance not previously covered by a defined metric. Metric = definitions will follow the template given in RFC 6390." >=20 > Thanks, > Footer >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brian Trammell = (IETF) > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 10:15 AM > To: IETF IPPM WG > Subject: Re: [ippm] New IPPM charter suggestion >=20 > Greetings, all, >=20 > Seeing not very much continuing traffic about this on the list, it = seems we may have converged within the WG; many thanks all for the = productive conversation in Chicago! >=20 > We'll leave this thread open until Friday 4 August, and send up what = we have for a request for rechartering then. >=20 > Thanks, cheers, >=20 > Brian (as chair) >=20 >=20 >> On 25 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Brian Trammell (IETF) = wrote: >>=20 >> Greetings, all, >>=20 >> Following our meeting in Prague (minutes forthcoming), here's where I = think we are with the suggested new charter. Track changes view in = Google Docs at: = https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Q5tIcv2b6oQ9tL_dS90N_ApREZZpSJJxmk-Jn= wx3z8/edit?usp=3Dsharing >>=20 >> The new charter text, in full, appears below. >>=20 >> Comments? >>=20 >> Thanks, cheers, >>=20 >> Brian (as chair) >>=20 >>=20 >> The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and = maintains standard metrics that can be applied to the quality, = performance, and reliability of Internet data delivery services and = applications running over transport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over = IP. It also develops and maintains methodologies and protocols for the = measurement of these metrics. These metrics, protocols, and = methodologies are designed such that they can be used by network = operators, end users, or independent testing groups. Metrics developed = by the IPPM WG are intended to provide unbiased quantitative performance = measurements. >>=20 >> The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics = and measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is = limited to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over = transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations = required for measurements over non-IP layers. >>=20 >> The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and = procedures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The = working group will continue advancing the most useful of these metrics = along the standards track, using the guidelines stated in RFC 6576. To = the extent possible, these metrics will be used as the basis for future = work on metrics in the WG. >>=20 >> The WG will seek to develop new metrics and models to more accurately = characterize the network paths under test and/or the performance of = transport and application layer protocols on these paths. The WG will = balance the need for new metrics with the desire to minimize the = introduction of new metrics, and will require that new metric = definitions state how the definition improves on an existing metric = definition, or assesses a property of network performance not previously = covered by a defined metric. Metric definitions will follow the template = given in RFC 6390. >>=20 >> Additional methods will be defined for the composition and = calibration of IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and = hybrid measurement methods for these metrics. In addition, the WG = encourages work which describes the applicability of metrics and = measurement methods, especially to improve understanding of the = tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybrid methods. >>=20 >> The WG may update its core framework RFC 2330 as necessary to = accommodate these activities. >>=20 >> The WG has produced protocols for communication among test equipment = to enable the measurement of the one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and = TWAMP respectively). These protocols will be advanced along the = standards track. The work of the WG will take into account the = suitability of measurements for automation, in order to support = large-scale measurement efforts. This may result in further developments = in protocols such as OWAMP and TWAMP. >>=20 >> Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement = enables accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different = implementations. To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of = metric definitions. >>=20 >> The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of = measurements of IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG = also encourages work which improves the availability of information = about the context in which measurements were taken, for example (but not = limited to) measurement implementation information, estimates of = confidence in these measurements, conditions on the network(s) on which = measurements are taken, and/or information about the data-plane topology = of these network(s). >>=20 >> In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data = formats and information models for the storage and exchange of the = results of measurements defined within IPPM. >>=20 >> The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies = and forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF = process, IPPM metric definitions and measurement protocols will be = subject to as rigorous a scrutiny for usefulness, clarity, and accuracy = as other protocol standards. The IPPM WG will interact with other areas = of IETF activity whose scope intersects with the requirement of these = specific metrics. The WG will, on request, provide input to other IETF = working groups on the use and implementation of these metrics. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 --Apple-Mail=_53D64361-A61D-4778-AABB-DCEDCEBB8256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZgycaAAoJEIoSt78L6kajlO4P/jMm0bkN7d/v9xyGUnUM5glL gIwtCLQZz3cfZdwQWy+rMC+BICRG3prPAisUHtTNdDtttTj22wz5wt+cei1Px7ci DaEbeScWTTpMMDk51cWAH2PE9TKSrRDGuHx5OP5cQWv6161oZeZ//tq0rVtkeSsv GH59r9hKrhJeBpCfYBOj3yEWKObYuyr+G5YNiX/n3TKqvZ6FfbW2ZSi4e0YVj+7J vWGuBmQRcbicvJmu5Dnt2kZwQIEvic59nKWwNtzR+kmwwN73z8yPm3tTCqaPirly 89AwffYWp6wuC7A2RucO7ZFzbuVx9AXIoJbk95bMIDL64xpCA7fHNCR0h6f62hlU RIpdvS0Y8ZBkS0wlsKkw7JNc28+OxS0zBQgHmTuNiqpLMdjWCi0hfiq56jZpPqPM mBR8nkohluiGuAEbmgGngr1Q7ybxpIBprOb0MKUNKGo8+KPJu14L7BHv4bT+wPtD cSgEX3VoNAKW4nGPD4YA5tfwkl8NyqVotmLPP4mg1f2vRybc23ZShQpg+0S6Z/5Q 3ImcOEj5J1kcg9UN3Os0no0ZU+Ce9p7zs5NUAcLV3Qx1j3WTlbJVhX0r9L6LN4i1 /G12gAfoR9ydJJ1+dXyz2DRhLNB3FZTKYDFmu7FNDbYgAHEnbzAxBw4+eLozKRT/ ubHVNz2N0/YcHa7L2X0i =BT4n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_53D64361-A61D-4778-AABB-DCEDCEBB8256-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 10:54:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91552131FE7; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:54:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TNPR0bG8Om4u; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x232.google.com (mail-qt0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 375D6131EDB; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x232.google.com with SMTP id a18so12116718qta.0; Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3I4MuEFM6EE4cYvXMQNDuM9DdFeNM/02aoBDr9yJod8=; b=Cr/2Qsn3S6X24Ho0UEl5C0D+nEqkNplv9oNUHTV/BHc2JKcgrVtXGvXtbYobBNCVOp k1Psok6OKqUQ6bwY94hjuP7QytalTiLEin8ZFmvu0pGsfwy40GLF0tzpc3JptzXn4bhm UvmizF58ypD1p0xrALNXaYW93cGF+mhda+4WzzIBFXgJiwZlLR4bkSSihxase5rShFCY tbcPhIdKTSa+HEVTesRQy2tDwU5JvGwCb0SftyGXqgW04r6xU8F4qEKBFX+j5q0f/2mh DtQmtyuCC2ALB7pICq8+TIHU9kWxt3vKz/uhWKAIEy4nYfAC+Zwt4ABes8biuyvMxWRP otkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3I4MuEFM6EE4cYvXMQNDuM9DdFeNM/02aoBDr9yJod8=; b=agQotf6hqDu4xbo8rsb/7LrzSVOOHXL4k0kJKFirIWQLQEv16fRMAUdMV5Tn3+IXu/ LGXuDYgq6xA+vscNOYd27HSgN2jJf7HiXMzw1YXFY8imDvGQaqS9bR9BB/WyEuF021kM wyfHmiMENUErzJ2Sr+wUmYuuwkM+4hIqwzRkwCdUAw6TXEkGmdvIZpUaVzmiUByu2U7I QXYvyozUq4EG/jqJIKOUtVepDYt73Bffng9WALkkzTjeWkeitxaczhMAQXiSQa7rbG5n Hal2yWp1d8OWJjcNomivvNT3mQCUM97bDercrw49nxCsXAEn4PmUVft8jVGDC6ujYW33 kEhw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113r+F4aohJ9uGMdgG813P5VAie7d2MuqVqFJYF7fPGm4p2/uWHb T8bz2tD0u/QUfzAk7Vcp23RD4WIP+g== X-Received: by 10.200.37.21 with SMTP id 21mr3475775qtm.85.1501782853214; Thu, 03 Aug 2017 10:54:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.88.72 with HTTP; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:54:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 10:54:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114078d27ee7050555dd1106" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 17:54:41 -0000 --001a114078d27ee7050555dd1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I am not aware of any related to this draft IPR other than already disclosed. Regards, Greg On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > Dear IPPM, > > This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06, in > preparation to document advancement. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06? > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see > RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this > draft-tempia-ippm-p3m: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2557/ > > _Action_: > > If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contributor please > respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any > relevant IPR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnaire. > > If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors respond. > > Thanks! > > =E2=80=94 > Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com > > *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma= ke myself > sound more photosynthesis."* > > --001a114078d27ee7050555dd1106 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
I am not aware of any related to this draft IPR ot= her than already disclosed.

Regards,
Gre= g

On W= ed, Aug 2, 2017 at 6:31 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &= lt;cpignata@cisco.c= om> wrote:
Dear IPPM,

This email starts an IPR call on draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06, in prepa= ration to document advancement.

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-06?<= /div>
If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (= see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

There is one IPR disclosure filed directly against this draft-tempia-i= ppm-p3m:

_Action_:

If you are listed as a document author, editor, or contributor please = respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any rel= evant IPR. These responses are needed for the shepherd questionnaire.

If you are on the IPPM WG email list but are not listed as an author o= r contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any = IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

This poll will run for a week, or until all contributors respond.

Thanks!

=E2=80=94
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0carlos@cisco.com

=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma= ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis."


--001a114078d27ee7050555dd1106-- From nobody Tue Aug 15 19:41:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD5E132473; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:41:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150285129105.12617.13967108398253151946.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:41:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:41:31 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ippm/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Wed Aug 16 07:03:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 312671323A1; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:03:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alvaro Retana To: "The IESG" Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:03:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:03:02 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ippm/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I fully support this update. However, is the intent to change the name of the WG at the same time? The Internal Review announcement, as well as the write-ups talk about "IP Performance Metrics", but the first line of the charter says "IP Performance Measurement" instead. I don't object to the name change, it may in fact be a better reflection of the work, but I think it is a process issue (if the name is to be changed) that should be addressed before approval. From nobody Wed Aug 16 07:27:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9148E1321AE; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:27:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uL0FwLYkmZK1; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E84C1321C6; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049458.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049458.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id v7GEPc4l013456; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:27:43 -0400 Received: from tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (sbcsmtp3.sbc.com [144.160.112.28]) by m0049458.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2ccqmn8nhu-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:27:43 -0400 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GERfr1047312; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:27:42 -0500 Received: from dalint02.pst.cso.att.com (dalint02.pst.cso.att.com [135.31.133.160]) by tlpd255.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GERcSA047306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:27:38 -0500 Received: from clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (clpi183.sldc.sbc.com [135.41.1.46]) by dalint02.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:27:21 GMT Received: from sldc.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GERLgQ029957; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:27:21 -0500 Received: from mail-blue.research.att.com (mail-blue.research.att.com [135.207.178.11]) by clpi183.sldc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GERC07029357; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:27:12 -0500 Received: from exchange.research.att.com (njmtcas2.research.att.com [135.207.255.47]) by mail-blue.research.att.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF282F042F; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from njmtexg4.research.att.com ([fe80::8cd:baa3:219e:5bd4]) by njmtcas2.research.att.com ([fe80::d550:ec84:f872:cad9%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:27:11 -0400 From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" To: Alvaro Retana , The IESG CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTFphoFBNwAso1NEypXfJkx55u/6KHB78w Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:27:11 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF46C047E9@njmtexg4.research.att.com> References: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [73.178.187.36] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-08-16_05:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1707230000 definitions=main-1708160238 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:27:52 -0000 Hi Alvaro, just replying as someone from IPPM who is not on vacation... > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alvaro Retana > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:03 AM > To: The IESG > Cc: ippm-chairs@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org > Subject: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with > COMMENT) ... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I fully support this update. >=20 > However, is the intent to change the name of the WG at the same time? The > Internal Review announcement, as well as the write-ups talk about "IP > Performance Metrics", but the first line of the charter says "IP Performa= nce > Measurement" instead. I don't object to the name change, it may in fact = be a > better reflection of the work, but I think it is a process issue (if the = name > is to be changed) that should be addressed before approval. [ACM]=20 Yes, the name change is intentional, so the process=20 should reflect that aspect as well. I don't think this small change should be viewed as creating a=20 new working group, or that the change should separate the literature of the WG before/after=20 this name/charter. If there are more serious=20 implications than the WG anticipated, I would=20 like to understand them better. thanks and regards, Al >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ippm&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DA3792Yd9AQ0JTy76m6cA8jS6= O0N > zxVWtdP6P0zP-7bM&s=3D4m3lTS4Cbq4ikN2Hq0ny11l2eANpNR53uHs-jZWkViU&e=3D From nobody Wed Aug 16 07:41:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFC31321B8; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="273050260" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Aug 2017 14:41:38 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GEfdul020481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:41:39 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:41:38 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:41:38 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , The IESG CC: "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTFphjRgmdCipmsE26vZOwnHNhDqKHXh+A///A/AA= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:41:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF46C047E9@njmtexg4.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF46C047E9@njmtexg4.research.att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.22.0.170515 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.196.156] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:01:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.40.194 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:01:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF46C047E9@njmtexg4.research.att.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:01:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Cc: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , The IESG , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c015be786da90556e88dd1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:01:33 -0000 --001a11c015be786da90556e88dd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Alvaro, On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote: > Al: > > Hi! > > No, I don=E2=80=99t think there are more serious implications. We just n= eed the > process to show what is being done =E2=80=93 right now there is a small (= but > important) inconsistency. > > We changed the name of the pim WG last year, where the acronym, the list, > the archives, etc..were all maintained. It is possible! > > Thanks! > Thank you for spotting this - I think this is just a race condition between renaming and rechartering. Since you've done this recently and I've never done it - do you think I need to do more than make sure the Secretariat spots this, so they can change the name anywhere it needs to be changed? (I'd like for the announcement of the recharter to have the new name, for instance) Spencer > Alvaro. > > On 8/16/17, 10:27 AM, "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" wrote: > > Yes, the name change is intentional, so the process > should reflect that aspect as well. I don't think > this small change should be viewed as creating a > new working group, or that the change should > separate the literature of the WG before/after > this name/charter. If there are more serious > implications than the WG anticipated, I would > like to understand them better. > > > > --001a11c015be786da90556e88dd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Alvaro,

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Alvaro Retana (aretana) <areta= na@cisco.com> wrote:
Al:
Hi!

No, I don=E2=80=99t think there are more serious implications.=C2=A0 We jus= t need the process to show what is being done =E2=80=93 right now there is = a small (but important) inconsistency.

We changed the name of the pim WG last year, where the acronym, the list, t= he archives, etc..were all maintained.=C2=A0 It is possible!

Thanks!

Thank you for spotting this - I= think this is just a race condition between renaming and rechartering.

Since you've done this recently and I've neve= r done it - do you think I need to do more than make sure the Secretariat s= pots this, so they can change the name anywhere it needs to be changed? (I&= #39;d like for the announcement of the recharter to have the new name, for = instance)

Spencer=C2=A0


Alvaro.

On 8/16/17, 10:27 AM, "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acmorton@att.com> wrote:

Yes, the name change is intentional, so the process
should reflect that aspect as well. I don't think
this small change should be viewed as creating a
new working group, or that the change should
separate the literature of the WG before/after
this name/charter.=C2=A0 If there are more serious
implications than the WG anticipated, I would
like to understand them better.




--001a11c015be786da90556e88dd1-- From nobody Wed Aug 16 22:01:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD27413234B; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:01:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RaZq9Hqeo076; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB271124E15; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:01:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=640; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1502946072; x=1504155672; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=cmwiVSw+3LKzVD/iiJfxEXt5y584YMCnxPEzebmdp0g=; b=BCsFeSJuMZicqS9dR14fdToL7o12k2Kd3ji0TxlKjmqwyRQiopQojkXB niPuQVo0t+wUfHuf1qCGCfSF62ye7Eijtu7G4gOGlG8R5h+IbOXHu3sYQ 8VAoyan8YFE4WLb9JUxrxWRjb4eF8cke/cE+py8hJEVehyykfjozh5sLT c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D8AACPIpVZ/4MNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1qBeY4SkBKBTCKIOI1ighKFRwKESD8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECATo/BQsCAQgYHhAhESUCBA4FihgDDQisDIc9DYQWAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAR+DKIICgUyCDguCcYJXghyDQ4IxBZEVhwaHcTwCj0qEdoF4kGSMNol?= =?us-ascii?q?lAR84gQp3FVsBhQQcgWd2iiYBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,386,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="65764195" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Aug 2017 05:01:12 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (xch-rcd-003.cisco.com [173.37.102.13]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7H51C7R003493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:01:12 GMT Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com (173.36.7.12) by XCH-RCD-003.cisco.com (173.37.102.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 00:01:11 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) by XCH-ALN-002.cisco.com ([173.36.7.12]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 00:01:11 -0500 From: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF CC: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , The IESG , "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" , "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTFphjRgmdCipmsE26vZOwnHNhDqKHXh+A///A/ACAAPA8AP//7yjP Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:01:11 +0000 Message-ID: <61794744-F59F-4E64-957B-E756CE430839@cisco.com> References: <150289218210.12476.14285511463611207073.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF46C047E9@njmtexg4.research.att.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Alvaro Retana's Yes on charter-ietf-ippm-05-00: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:01:15 -0000 Hi! When we did it for pim, the charter review announcement went out with the n= ew name, so we did it from the start. In this case, I think it would be enough for a note to the Secretariat. Alvaro=20 Thumb typed and autocorrected. > On Aug 16, 2017, at 7:01 PM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >=20 > Since you've done this recently and I've never done it - do you think I n= eed to do more than make sure the Secretariat spots this, so they can chang= e the name anywhere it needs to be changed? (I'd like for the announcement = of the recharter to have the new name, for instance) From nobody Sat Aug 19 12:50:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C964B1329DD; Sat, 19 Aug 2017 12:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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15:50:17 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG , "luca.castaldelli@telecomitalia.it" , Lianshu Zheng Thread-Topic: IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark Thread-Index: AQHTC5OWXg3lKibFKkmSfq5E/KvZ46KMdKCA Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 19:50:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.116.138] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C699B27D2CAE4DB48EA3F4253904F60Fciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IPR Call regarding draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 19:50:22 -0000 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Aug 2017 06:43:19.3828 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: a652971c-7d2e-4d9b-a6a4-d149256f461b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0501MB2386 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 06:43:25 -0000 --_000_AM5PR0501MB238759C9308AA5C7C5C0C833C6860AM5PR0501MB2387_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, NodeLen described as the total length of data needed to be added by each no= de. It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up to 60B. I see few issues with this field and want to open it to a discussion. 1. There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque State Snapshot" which has varia= ble length 2. Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some are short and some are = wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of 4 bits (12-15). If the= y will be used this field will not be able to show the total node length 3. Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is not matching the number o= f bits in the trace type. Suggest to add text that trace type field has precedence and if a node deci= des to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks on the trace type. Thanks, Aviv --_000_AM5PR0501MB238759C9308AA5C7C5C0C833C6860AM5PR0501MB2387_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

NodeLen described as the total length of data needed= to be added by each node.

It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up= to 60B.

 

I see few issues with this field and want to open it= to a discussion.

 

1.

There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque Sta= te Snapshot" which has variable length

 

2.

Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some = are short and some are wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of= 4 bits (12-15). If they will be used this field will not be able to show t= he total node length

 

3.

Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is no= t matching the number of bits in the trace type.

Suggest to add text that trace type field has preced= ence and if a node decides to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks o= n the trace type.

 

Thanks,

Aviv

--_000_AM5PR0501MB238759C9308AA5C7C5C0C833C6860AM5PR0501MB2387_-- From nobody Sun Aug 20 23:56:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39EE13226B for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:56:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=barefootnetworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwOhnhpSeIRU for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23450132116 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id k46so15478659wre.2 for ; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=barefootnetworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3somo0si8bvAqhSnlJHgTINs+NfTKTTnfcHOQhE3Vs8=; b=cr12rUy2q7OW8whOrIIsNEoc9AF04TQ3D6No6DIl0pylmXy0PTXUxt9Eccg1elzJI9 2sPYDQKsDKiiqilde0edlx07Lx+wtMUxwSKkpOpENFcG4HWr2bZEAfdTg4Ot0ZvIFJJD MbmZkjdjroBmbNzVsvXRaKg+TiwJIS/J+Bzp+hv0aw3VtIfkAMROggigY+iF+dfgrBIt /Uxg7vF+u90pwJAXgO6fDQoAY29ltG8miA8o21HDstcnWoKijW0JBj1WeauI/BjqTUxZ 4onMmIpnV2IRbsOb7c9z9PT9dmWl1jNazKJVo5udAb7d/Ck9pRtiEhkEOOmQLHxW1ibW HkPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3somo0si8bvAqhSnlJHgTINs+NfTKTTnfcHOQhE3Vs8=; b=fpAMKyWoFKYH4OgNvcYkLEleaI2tkg59qW5SLcaHhBzlg7PRN/0jAThScSe4dXvlL8 F1jHEQkmXs7iVbV0V7pqqabx3tln15QR8uwWxpSHPhcn259QA8uy+51y7pCSKsQgqhMp KQVQxNwMFS7foS73AODKv72WBQfxbzra6EzH0PcPTpSrkO1+Dv48jOS2y/BstH+JmqVi dLbXWzweL6cph2S3PNowjYQpXeMLv1zyK2ZtZPFsqsOkzlBnT5P+8p39+VVX1cTd5ZAx nE/2E80agj9L5C6yYzDwFQGyBvJoQZtc2fxi5fwWRVNtrxIgJ2QX+9VZtj3PSdvUVrBR M7Dg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iv2EZ7ucEk0nLdnAsdTprqAbEE/FVvExI2dW/8LID15Fm04fmN TLH8iMJJImGXsCx0h+LG1SXMVQH4T0mr X-Received: by 10.28.5.136 with SMTP id 130mr5576350wmf.4.1503298557555; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.139.78 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Mickey Spiegel Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 23:55:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: Aviv Kfir Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144269483d40305573df87c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 06:56:02 -0000 --001a1144269483d40305573df87c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Aviv Kfir wrote: > Hi All, > > > > NodeLen described as the total length of data needed to be added by each > node. > > It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up to 60B. > > > > I see few issues with this field and want to open it to a discussion. > > > > 1. > > There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque State Snapshot" which has > variable length > This points out that there is some ambiguity with respect to the meaning of bit[7]. When bit[7] is set, this indicates that some "opaque state" must be included in the IOAM trace node data list, but it does not indicate what "opaque state" is intended to be captured. If there is more than one possible "opaque state" field (i.e. more than one schema is supported), then the node must determine which one to insert locally, perhaps based on configuration. If it is desired to keep the "Opaque State Snapshot" despite this issue, then the NodeLen could be defined as the length of data added by each node in multiples of 4-octets, excluding the length of the "Opaque State Snapshot". If bit[7] is not set, then the NodeLen specifies the actual length added by each node. If bit[7] is set, then the actual length added by a node would be (NodeLen + Opaque Data Length), assuming that the Opaque Data Length is changed to units of multiples of 4-octets. 2. > > Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some are short and some are > wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of 4 bits (12-15). If > they will be used this field will not be able to show the total node length > Without considering bit[7], looking at the current bits there should be no need for any combination with length greater than 11. Why would anyone need both short (4-octets) and wide (8-octets) fields of Hop_Lim and Node_id? Or both short and wide fields of ingress_if_id and egress_if_id? Or both short and wide fields of app_data? > 3. > > Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is not matching the number > of bits in the trace type. > > Suggest to add text that trace type field has precedence and if a node > decides to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks on the trace type. > This defeats the purpose of adding this field. In-situ OAM is designed to record information within data packets, without significantly affecting the processing of those data packets. As such, it is important that it be specified in a manner that is hardware friendly. By including the NodeLen, it eases the task of data plane processing. While inclusion of node data fields must be driven only by the IOAM-Trace-Type bits, it is also necessary to determine the length of data added by each node. This length is used both to determine whether the Maximum Length would be exceeded, and to adjust the length of encapsulating headers. IOAM is meant to be used within a "network domain" operated by a single administration. The IOAM administrator would specify the node data fields that are desired. Nodes at the edge of the network domain insert the appropriate IOAM Trace Option with the set of bits corresponding to the node data fields specified by the IOAM administrator. A software driver can determine the NodeLen based on the set of bits, i.e. the NodeLen is not meant to be a user configurable field. NodeLen is just a value that can be precomputed and communicated to each node along the path, easing the burden of per packet data plane processing. There have been offline suggestions that a translation table could be used to determine this length, without having to do the arithmetic associated with the individual bits. The issue with such an approach is that the number of possible combinations is likely to be large. If only a subset of combinations were to be included in the translation table, then this would add an operational burden. The IOAM administrator would have to specify the allowed combinations before the feature could be enabled, making IOAM more difficult to use. Mickey > > Thanks, > > Aviv > --001a1144269483d40305573df87c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Aviv Kfir <avivk@mellanox.com>= wrote:

Hi All,

=C2=A0

NodeLen described as the total length of data needed= to be added by each node.

It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up= to 60B.

=C2=A0

I see few issues with this field and want to open it= to a discussion.

=C2=A0

1.

There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque Sta= te Snapshot" which has variable length


This points out that there is some ambiguity with respect = to the meaning of bit[7]. When bit[7] is set, this indicates that some &quo= t;opaque state" must be included in the IOAM trace node data list, but= it does not indicate what "opaque state" is intended to be captu= red. If there is more than one possible "opaque state" field (i.e= . more than one schema is supported), then the node must determine which on= e to insert locally, perhaps based on configuration.

If it is desired to keep the "Opaque State Snapshot" despite t= his issue, then the NodeLen could be defined as the length of data added by= each node in multiples of 4-octets, excluding the length of the "Opaq= ue State Snapshot". If bit[7] is not set, then the NodeLen specifies t= he actual length added by each node. If bit[7] is set, then the actual leng= th added by a node would be (NodeLen + Opaque Data Length), assuming that t= he Opaque Data Length is changed to units of multiples of 4-octets.

2.

Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some = are short and some are wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of= 4 bits (12-15). If they will be used this field will not be able to show t= he total node length


Withou= t considering bit[7], looking at the current bits there should be no need f= or any combination with length greater than 11.
Why would anyone = need both short (4-octets) and wide (8-octets) fields of Hop_Lim and Node_i= d?
Or both short and wide fields of ingress_if_id and egress_if_i= d?
Or both short and wide fields of app_data?
=C2=A0

3.

Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is no= t matching the number of bits in the trace type.

Suggest to add text that trace type field has preced= ence and if a node decides to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks o= n the trace type.


This defe= ats the purpose of adding this field. In-situ OAM is designed to record inf= ormation within data packets, without significantly affecting the processin= g of those data packets. As such, it is important that it be specified in a= manner that is hardware friendly.

By including th= e NodeLen, it eases the task of data plane processing. While inclusion of n= ode data fields must be driven only by the IOAM-Trace-Type bits, it is also= necessary to determine the length of data added by each node. This length = is used both to determine whether the Maximum Length would be exceeded, and= to adjust the length of encapsulating headers.

IO= AM is meant to be used within a "network domain" operated by a si= ngle administration. The IOAM administrator would specify the node data fie= lds that are desired. Nodes at the edge of the network domain insert the ap= propriate IOAM Trace Option with the set of bits corresponding to the node = data fields specified by the IOAM administrator. A software driver can dete= rmine the NodeLen based on the set of bits, i.e. the NodeLen is not meant t= o be a user configurable field. NodeLen is just a value that can be precomp= uted and communicated to each node along the path, easing the burden of per= packet data plane processing.

There have been off= line suggestions that a translation table could be used to determine this l= ength, without having to do the arithmetic associated with the individual b= its. The issue with such an approach is that the number of possible combina= tions is likely to be large. If only a subset of combinations were to be in= cluded in the translation table, then this would add an operational burden.= The IOAM administrator would have to specify the allowed combinations befo= re the feature could be enabled, making IOAM more difficult to use.

Mickey

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Aviv

--001a1144269483d40305573df87c-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 01:39:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B5D1321B7; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:39:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150347754146.19506.5047442147607446239@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:39:01 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:39:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics WG of the IETF. Title : Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Data Model Authors : Ruth Civil Al Morton Reshad Rahman Mahesh Jethanandani Kostas Pentikousis Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-04.txt Pages : 64 Date : 2017-08-23 Abstract: This document specifies a data model for client and server implementations of the Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP). We define the TWAMP data model through Unified Modeling Language (UML) class diagrams and formally specify it using YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Aug 27 19:08:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B286A132A0F; Sun, 27 Aug 2017 19:08:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GMJOykERrWa; Sun, 27 Aug 2017 19:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UC1aXUPTv25e for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 12:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 813AA1320BD for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 12:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DE420C19 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:47:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=UWlfY+dJ2PF+owC2sWfjamg38dRSilDsokB1j9WW0 EI=; b=jpxEJtHcxEJ+GmyClxPiWd7ar85tAkvuy3uzqcuouBhxxIwcX60egu7em ZP9uk16at4GSPPA/8mg793oBKDXLkgyisGy0SdTK+ITAr0QMR/lEaRTyXEI8rJ12 RQM9zKeIt00GllLkspdXfpshp+OiOLANZQ4o7UW4/7/Z/p0egqxnCayHHaIR1cMK i/ec4HvCF77pPLlkc+gZTF+YhBmUS2TGYAJfnVIDf+fap2Bs5qKNCp6U2+0MAAeN YK0HenGMNaqpzvTpvLmabqTsfqeg7MYp7iTFRW/tkUEdgJ5ONshCUH3bW+QAo2jN 8z+K/WzlWlK/uPnRUtOs3EnvhLLGA== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: J1gPgXNim0HbMnZflRGENYewkWFcVSSzqY/5lu0rWJz7 1503949652 Received: from eng-7-225.aa.arbor.net (unknown [216.130.192.2]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B778A7F9C1 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:47:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Cerveny Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0E543732-87F5-42F7-9101-5F127CAC8A72" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:47:32 -0400 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Document shepherd still needed for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 19:47:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0E543732-87F5-42F7-9101-5F127CAC8A72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear IPPMers, We still need a volunteer to be document shepherd for = draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang. Ideally, this would be a non-author who has = reviewed the document. The document shepherd role is described in = [RFC4858](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4858 = ) as amended by an [IESG = statement](https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/document-shepherds.html = ). Thanks, Bill Cerveny IPPM co-chair= --Apple-Mail=_0E543732-87F5-42F7-9101-5F127CAC8A72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Dear IPPMers,

We still need a volunteer to be document shepherd for draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang. Ideally, this would be a non-author who has reviewed the document. The document shepherd role is described in [RFC4858](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4858) as amended by an [IESG statement](https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/document-shepherds.html).

Thanks,

Bill Cerveny
IPPM co-chair
--Apple-Mail=_0E543732-87F5-42F7-9101-5F127CAC8A72-- From nobody Tue Aug 29 03:07:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD03132C03 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:07:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150400122491.13155.6915869349082419033.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:07:04 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 10:07:05 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit draft on model-based TCP bulk transfer capacity metrics to IESG as Experimental", resolved as "Done". Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG adding support for IEEE-1588 timestamps to TWAMP", resolved as "Done". Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set due date to October 2017 from November 2016. Changed milestone "Submit draft on core registry for performance metrics to IESG as Proposed Standard", set due date to November 2017 from November 2016. Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG defining initial contents of performance metric registry", set due date to November 2017 from November 2016. Changed milestone "Submit an Experimental draft on coloring-based hybrid measurement methodologies for loss and delay to the IESG", set due date to November 2017 from November 2016. Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG updating RFC2330 to cover IPv6", set due date to July 2018 from July 2017. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ From nobody Tue Aug 29 06:04:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6861132803 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:04:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150401186087.13155.13737305189979890548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:04:20 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 13:04:21 -0000 Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set description to "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing TWAMP clients and servers". Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based measurement methodologies to the IESG", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ From nobody Tue Aug 29 07:37:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C866E132D52; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 07:37:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , ippm-chairs@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <150401742581.13202.16637987825790622632.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 07:37:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] WG Action: Rechartered IP Performance Measurement (ippm) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:37:06 -0000 The IP Performance Measurement (ippm) WG in the Transport Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. IP Performance Measurement (ippm) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Active WG Chairs: Brian Trammell Bill Cerveny Assigned Area Director: Spencer Dawkins Transport Area Directors: Spencer Dawkins Mirja Kühlewind Mailing list: Address: ippm@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ippm/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/ippm/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-ippm/ The IP Performance Measurement (IPPM) Working Group develops and maintains standard metrics that can be applied to the quality, performance, and reliability of Internet data delivery services and applications running over transport layer protocols (e.g. TCP, UDP) over IP. It also develops and maintains methodologies and protocols for the measurement of these metrics. These metrics, protocols, and methodologies are designed such that they can be used by network operators, end users, or independent testing groups. Metrics developed by the IPPM WG are intended to provide unbiased quantitative performance measurements. The IPPM WG works to foster commonality and comparability of metrics and measurements across IETF protocols at different layers. Its work is limited to metrics and methodologies which are applicable over transport-layer protocols over IP, and does not specify encapsulations required for measurements over non-IP layers. The IPPM WG has produced documents that define specific metrics and procedures for accurately measuring and documenting these metrics. The working group will continue advancing the most useful of these metrics along the standards track, using the guidelines stated in RFC 6576. To the extent possible, these metrics will be used as the basis for future work on metrics in the WG. The WG will seek to develop new metrics and models to accurately characterize the network paths under test and/or the performance of transport and application layer protocols on these paths. The WG will balance the need for new metrics with the desire to minimize the introduction of new metrics, and will require that new metric definitions state how the definition improves on an existing metric definition, or assesses a property of network performance not previously covered by a defined metric. Metric definitions will follow the template given in RFC 6390. Additional methods will be defined for the composition and calibration of IPPM-defined metrics, as well as active, passive and hybrid measurement methods for these metrics. In addition, the WG encourages work which describes the applicability of metrics and measurement methods, especially to improve understanding of the tradeoffs involved among active, passive, and hybrid methods. The WG may update its core framework RFC 2330 as necessary to accommodate these activities. The WG has produced protocols for communication among test equipment to enable the measurement of the one- and two-way metrics (OWAMP and TWAMP respectively). These protocols will be advanced along the standards track. The work of the WG will take into account the suitability of measurements for automation, in order to support large-scale measurement efforts. This may result in further developments in protocols such as OWAMP and TWAMP. Agreement about the definitions of metrics and methods of measurement enables accurate, reproducible, and equivalent results across different implementations. To this end, the WG defines and maintains a registry of metric definitions. The WG encourages work which assesses the comparability of measurements of IPPM metrics with metrics developed elsewhere. The WG also encourages work which improves the availability of information about the context in which measurements were taken, for example (but not limited to) measurement implementation information, estimates of confidence in these measurements, conditions on the network(s) on which measurements are taken, and/or information about the data-plane topology of these network(s). In the interest of measurement comparability, the WG may define data formats and information models for the storage and exchange of the results of measurements defined within IPPM. The IPPM WG seeks cooperation with other appropriate standards bodies and forums to promote consistent approaches and metrics. Within the IETF process, IPPM metric definitions and measurement protocols will be subject to as rigorous a scrutiny for usefulness, clarity, and accuracy as other protocol standards. The IPPM WG will interact with other areas of IETF activity whose scope intersects with the requirement of these specific metrics. The WG will, on request, provide input to other IETF working groups on the use and implementation of these metrics. Milestones: Done - Submit draft on RFC 2680 standards-track advancement testing to IESG as Informational Done - Submit draft updating the IPPM Framework (2330-update) to IESG as Proposed Standard Done - Submit draft on reference path for measurement location to IESG as Informational Done - Submit draft on access rate measurement protocol problem statement to IESG as Informational Done - Submit draft on OWAMP / TWAMP Security to IESG as Proposed Standard Done - Submit draft on "A One-Way Delay Metric for IPPM" (RFC 2679 bis) as Internet Standard Done - Submit draft on "A One-Way Loss Metric for IPPM" (RFC 2680 bis) as Internet Standard Done - Submit draft on DSCP and ECN monitoring in TWAMP to IESG as Proposed Standard Done - Submit draft on the UDP Checksum Trailer in OWAMP and TWAMP to the IESG as Informational Done - Submit a draft defining terminology for the continuum of passive and active measurement to the IESG as Informational Done - Submit draft on model-based TCP bulk transfer capacity metrics to IESG as Experimental Done - Submit a draft on the IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM) Destination Option as Proposed Standard Done - submit a Standards Track document to the IESG adding support for IEEE-1588 timestamps to TWAMP Oct 2017 - submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing TWAMP clients and servers Nov 2017 - Submit draft on core registry for performance metrics to IESG as Proposed Standard Nov 2017 - submit a Standards Track document to the IESG defining initial contents of performance metric registry Nov 2017 - Submit an Experimental draft on coloring-based hybrid measurement methodologies for loss and delay to the IESG Jul 2018 - submit a Standards Track document to the IESG updating RFC2330 to cover IPv6 Nov 2018 - submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based measurement methodologies to the IESG From nobody Tue Aug 29 08:24:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: 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bWFyZ2luLXRvcC1hbHQ6YXV0bzttc28tbWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbS1hbHQ6YXV0byI+QXZpdjxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1s Pg0K --_000_AM5PR0501MB2387CD4EE74F6092D46E8AF6C69F0AM5PR0501MB2387_-- From nobody Tue Aug 29 17:35:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7777F13219A; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S0DJ2atysKTt; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com (mail-lf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 382D21321C0; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id z12so19108633lfd.3; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dO+lLYmQKll7Hs3n1DRRXZJn5FPSXYlb1SXDuOSndM4=; b=mFnlBkK8NndM6nDmQUO2EaTvkgvez7IYHYqtI+iJF1lAdnJGejcxEwE+bqvOfoXGyP t7Kwe+7uUkEi+hjw45mMdSQ4H3OUxmKoz1EWsmfoOht89/8K2sSFgUNFsWdxswwe01ZD 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17:35:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.88.81 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <150401186087.13155.13737305189979890548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150401186087.13155.13737305189979890548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:35:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: IETF Secretariat Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b18ea618bc40557edb362" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 00:35:16 -0000 --001a114b18ea618bc40557edb362 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear All, term "inband OAM" has been discussed extensively, including at IPPM WG. The term does not characterize only the proposed measurement technology but to a much broader set, including active OAM. Authors of the document kindly had considered the discussion and now refer to the technology as in-situ OAM. I hope it is not too much trouble to update s/inband/in-situ/. My second question is to the intended track of in-situ OAM document. I cannot find in minutes and in the list archive that the WG, IPPM WG voted to adopt the draft as Standard. At the time of WF adoption call https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg04546.html the draft draft-brockners-inband-oam-data-05 intended status was Experimental. And the adoption call was explicit about the track by stating: date TBD: Submit an Experimental draft on inband OAM based measurement methodologies to the IESG Appreciate your clarification. Regards, Greg On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 6:04 AM, IETF Secretariat < ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> wrote: > Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG > model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set description to "submit > a > Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing TWAMP > clients and servers". > > Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based > measurement methodologies to the IESG", set state to active from review, > accepting new milestone. > > URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --001a114b18ea618bc40557edb362 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
term "inband OAM" has been discuss= ed extensively, including at IPPM WG. The term does not characterize only t= he proposed measurement technology but to a much broader set, including act= ive OAM. Authors of the document kindly had considered the discussion and n= ow refer to the technology as in-situ OAM.

I hope = it is not too much trouble to update s/inband/in-situ/.

My second question is to the intended track of in-situ OAM document. = I cannot find in minutes and in the list archive that the WG, IPPM WG voted= to adopt the draft as Standard. At the time of WF adoption call=C2=A0htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg04546.html the draft= =C2=A0draft-brockners-inband-oam-data-05 intended status was Experimental. = And the adoption call was explicit about the track by stating:
date TBD: Submit an Experimental draft on inb= and OAM based measurement methodologies to the IESG
Appreciate your clarification.

Regards,
Greg
=
On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 6:04 AM, IETF Secret= ariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org> wrote:=
Changed milestone "= ;submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG
model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set description= to "submit a
Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for = managing TWAMP
clients and servers".

Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based<= br> measurement methodologies to the IESG", set state to active from revie= w,
accepting new milestone.

URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/=

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

--001a114b18ea618bc40557edb362-- From nobody Wed Aug 30 05:34:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2631330F5 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:34:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESji55qrS08Q for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from capri.iway.ch (capri.iway.ch [212.25.24.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB659132C23 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gozo.iway.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2EB340EA7; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:34:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ACF/18338.4307); Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:34:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from switchplus-mail.ch (switchplus-mail.ch [212.25.8.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gozo.iway.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:34:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nb-10604.ethz.ch (account ietf@trammell.ch [82.130.102.91] verified) by switchplus-mail.ch (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPSA id 27981034; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:34:25 +0200 From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B1FC0EB5-759C-42FD-8CC9-48962337BD45"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:34:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" To: Greg Mirsky References: <150401186087.13155.13737305189979890548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:34:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B1FC0EB5-759C-42FD-8CC9-48962337BD45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi Greg, (dropping secretariat) > On 30 Aug 2017, at 02:35, Greg Mirsky wrote: >=20 > Dear All, > term "inband OAM" has been discussed extensively, including at IPPM = WG. The term does not characterize only the proposed measurement = technology but to a much broader set, including active OAM. Authors of = the document kindly had considered the discussion and now refer to the = technology as in-situ OAM. >=20 > I hope it is not too much trouble to update s/inband/in-situ/. Nope, we can change that, absent any unexpected objection in the WG. > My second question is to the intended track of in-situ OAM document. I = cannot find in minutes and in the list archive that the WG, IPPM WG = voted to adopt the draft as Standard. At the time of WF adoption call = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg04546.html the = draft draft-brockners-inband-oam-data-05 intended status was = Experimental. And the adoption call was explicit about the track by = stating: > date TBD: Submit an Experimental draft on inband OAM based measurement = methodologies to the IESG >=20 > Appreciate your clarification. I recall (but similarly cannot find evidence of this on review; Franck, = perhaps you have pointers to this) that the discussion had settled on = Standards Track as opposed to Experimental status for these documents, = given the state of the associated implementation work. The milestone = reflects that conversation, but I may be mistaken. In any case, the intended status of the document is, post adoption, a = matter for WG change control, and can in any case be freely changed with = WG consensus until the document is submitted to the IESG. I've edited = the milestone to reflect the open question about status, and this = question, then, opens a discussion on the WG list for the record: what = should the intended status of the IOAM work be? Cheers, Brian > Regards, > Greg >=20 > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 6:04 AM, IETF Secretariat = wrote: > Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for a = YANG > model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set description to = "submit a > Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing = TWAMP > clients and servers". >=20 > Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based > measurement methodologies to the IESG", set state to active from = review, > accepting new milestone. >=20 > URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_B1FC0EB5-759C-42FD-8CC9-48962337BD45 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZprDRAAoJEIoSt78L6kajw2QP/27h5+6pjQ1ptHt1mNujgl7Z 9xgboiW02743ZDAU9nvAnzi1PobVC0kQ8g9DyK89wOU5pTTeCidIuvL2nMF4flmE vHeRHxiokdz/OxjC7RHMEPw1n4InvvuaYWIDqozen7kecnwpoB84Oo4RthaDTfSM QBdeDqsZ6QhYw36xBcYjdSSQckwUgQGxFGSsTZN2mmq7hH+tz6PVjsIoVgyR1ihO P15qdl2qatSoTkKCIjKQpSwcY79e+9SNBnNrLm/c9c2lB+jckaCTlIoto8hxqVE9 XotS0337x9qxUZtH8HyqX2M8++7nMqHxAEUR6boOnpzFlicsVc8knM94pcOkQz3N yk3rKsvi+SjqE/zjeOMjPeOYb30y7vlBCNxs3Ltn6M3tCO2pOMMzH59hdS5eD+sz yFY/QmYbVjnW0WKkW/vOTe/bbeikrF4WDCE4+UYqOdpr9riyUx9tQJlpO75oSXNQ fPXAKTuAA9uTqey5KJ79KjSKIbbTRdkudVJa1BfR22gn367ZHqA8iDFEoTpW+yXE PYZfImy99g/mAHefsUc0rOcnREVBoYKcJKO2kOouFSdKPBQfc/FFLc+pxDaWWLzO xqqwQl7pyXJqFI68+aiq6wbWbQdcN8uk0dOdot4e4/0powWwnBbmSP+FcexYeGf2 QI57AohWdBgm0o5d+zvM =TC9Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B1FC0EB5-759C-42FD-8CC9-48962337BD45-- From nobody Wed Aug 30 05:36:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B3C1330FA for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:36:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jno2xaQmhmWt for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from capri.iway.ch (capri.iway.ch [212.25.24.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F26D13317A for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 05:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gozo.iway.ch (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F57A340E92; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:36:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ACF/18338.4329); Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:36:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from switchplus-mail.ch (switchplus-mail.ch [212.25.8.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gozo.iway.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:36:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from nb-10604.ethz.ch (account ietf@trammell.ch [82.130.102.91] verified) by switchplus-mail.ch (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPSA id 27981384; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:36:30 +0200 From: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_78888060-5115-4A97-A867-A6B1FA4F93F3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:36:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" To: Greg Mirsky References: <150401186087.13155.13737305189979890548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:36:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_78888060-5115-4A97-A867-A6B1FA4F93F3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 30 Aug 2017, at 14:34, Brian Trammell (IETF) = wrote: >=20 > hi Greg, >=20 > (dropping secretariat) >=20 >> On 30 Aug 2017, at 02:35, Greg Mirsky wrote: >>=20 >> Dear All, >> term "inband OAM" has been discussed extensively, including at IPPM = WG. The term does not characterize only the proposed measurement = technology but to a much broader set, including active OAM. Authors of = the document kindly had considered the discussion and now refer to the = technology as in-situ OAM. >>=20 >> I hope it is not too much trouble to update s/inband/in-situ/. >=20 > Nope, we can change that, absent any unexpected objection in the WG. >=20 >> My second question is to the intended track of in-situ OAM document. = I cannot find in minutes and in the list archive that the WG, IPPM WG = voted to adopt the draft as Standard. At the time of WF adoption call = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg04546.html the = draft draft-brockners-inband-oam-data-05 intended status was = Experimental. And the adoption call was explicit about the track by = stating: >> date TBD: Submit an Experimental draft on inband OAM based = measurement methodologies to the IESG >>=20 >> Appreciate your clarification. >=20 > I recall (but similarly cannot find evidence of this on review; = Franck, perhaps you have pointers to this) that the discussion had = settled on Standards Track as opposed to Experimental status for these = documents, given the state of the associated implementation work. The = milestone reflects that conversation, but I may be mistaken. >=20 > In any case, the intended status of the document is, post adoption, a = matter for WG change control, and can in any case be freely changed with = WG consensus until the document is submitted to the IESG. I've edited = the milestone to reflect the open question about status, (Actually, it appears that even though the datatracker UI lets me edit = this and save it as WG chair, it doesn't actually make the change, which = seems like a datatracker bug. The responsible AD presumably has to make = the change In any case, consider this question open until the discussion = opened by this question concludes.) > and this question, then, opens a discussion on the WG list for the = record: what should the intended status of the IOAM work be? >=20 > Cheers, >=20 > Brian >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Regards, >> Greg >>=20 >> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 6:04 AM, IETF Secretariat = wrote: >> Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track document to the IESG for = a YANG >> model for managing TWAMP clients and servers ", set description to = "submit a >> Standards Track document to the IESG for a YANG model for managing = TWAMP >> clients and servers". >>=20 >> Changed milestone "submit a Standards Track draft on inband OAM based >> measurement methodologies to the IESG", set state to active from = review, >> accepting new milestone. >>=20 >> URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_78888060-5115-4A97-A867-A6B1FA4F93F3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIbBAEBCgAGBQJZprFNAAoJEIoSt78L6kajlzUP91rbjVMMzrUWCAD7+G4yBt5G 16pJCHHg0pg3v+6qJ/fYrP4/9wBHIBp5NAMs1zhKVQvHJrT97QW2maOkU5duHPHy YKffnP8E8WapU1DPm+a6ACUFOcarOhlVZ3zBg1BHouMmSoPjWwmd8LzGXpu4k3AT 2bmxXo89bS3YNNDhfXwvCzpl8VR+1nobLGorcEwZ+jwoXuf+zBGE939EDsK5508q 9XEQg+qRicpDm75XfWvH6MsDNMsb73JfgSJ5utsHFgSSQWinASqhRLsRl7dk9M1c 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header.d=barefootnetworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gx0rlbFkUD4H for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22b.google.com (mail-wr0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80EE81320B5 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id j29so23168630wre.2 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=barefootnetworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4ILFaWTEOimQjIT6cewhdtV9Am6chSH2U+mUB6gcD8g=; b=wJ46BkxKRp6ecPjpQt/B+mdDUtckqmkWFyr+vZfbjWNQjI6jflylX3hdjvjEu/XcQc 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10.223.173.15 with SMTP id p15mr2655729wrc.128.1504166236813; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.139.78 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Mickey Spiegel Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:57:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Aviv Kfir Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf78c3a90e9055807fe16" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 07:57:24 -0000 --f403045cf78c3a90e9055807fe16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Aviv Kfir wrote: > > > > > *From:* Aviv Kfir > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:24 PM > *To:* 'Mickey Spiegel' > *Cc:* ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option > > > > > > > > *From:* Mickey Spiegel [mailto:mspiegel@barefootnetworks.com > ] > *Sent:* Monday, August 21, 2017 9:56 AM > *To:* Aviv Kfir > *Cc:* ippm@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Aviv Kfir wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > NodeLen described as the total length of data needed to be added by each > node. > > It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up to 60B. > > > > I see few issues with this field and want to open it to a discussion. > > > > 1. > > There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque State Snapshot" which has > variable length > > > > This points out that there is some ambiguity with respect to the meaning > of bit[7]. When bit[7] is set, this indicates that some "opaque state" must > be included in the IOAM trace node data list, but it does not indicate what > "opaque state" is intended to be captured. If there is more than one > possible "opaque state" field (i.e. more than one schema is supported), > then the node must determine which one to insert locally, perhaps based on > configuration. > > > > If it is desired to keep the "Opaque State Snapshot" despite this issue, > then the NodeLen could be defined as the length of data added by each node > in multiples of 4-octets, excluding the length of the "Opaque State > Snapshot". If bit[7] is not set, then the NodeLen specifies the actual > length added by each node. If bit[7] is set, then the actual length added > by a node would be (NodeLen + Opaque Data Length), assuming that the Opaque > Data Length is changed to units of multiples of 4-octets. > > > > Agree, just need to document that it does not include the variable length > opaque length. > Agreed. > > > > > > 2. > > Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some are short and some are > wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of 4 bits (12-15). If > they will be used this field will not be able to show the total node length > > > > Without considering bit[7], looking at the current bits there should be no > need for any combination with length greater than 11. > > Why would anyone need both short (4-octets) and wide (8-octets) fields of > Hop_Lim and Node_id? > > Or both short and wide fields of ingress_if_id and egress_if_id? > > Or both short and wide fields of app_data? > > > > > > Agree that it is not reasonable to use both short and wide, it should be > documented to restrict it. > > For the other bits that are now reserved 12-15 (4 bits) we could reach to > 15 which is the maximum value of this field. > > In case one of them will be defined as wide without a short version we > will exceed the width of the field. > > > > > > *[AK] Adding additional bit to the node-length field makes it more future > compatible. We can take the additional bit from the flag field* > I am not sure what other uses people have in mind for the Flags field. I have no objections to this. > 3. > > Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is not matching the number > of bits in the trace type. > > Suggest to add text that trace type field has precedence and if a node > decides to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks on the trace type. > > > > This defeats the purpose of adding this field. In-situ OAM is designed to > record information within data packets, without significantly affecting the > processing of those data packets. As such, it is important that it be > specified in a manner that is hardware friendly. > > > > By including the NodeLen, it eases the task of data plane processing. > While inclusion of node data fields must be driven only by the > IOAM-Trace-Type bits, it is also necessary to determine the length of data > added by each node. This length is used both to determine whether the > Maximum Length would be exceeded, and to adjust the length of encapsulating > headers. > > > > IOAM is meant to be used within a "network domain" operated by a single > administration. The IOAM administrator would specify the node data fields > that are desired. Nodes at the edge of the network domain insert the > appropriate IOAM Trace Option with the set of bits corresponding to the > node data fields specified by the IOAM administrator. A software driver can > determine the NodeLen based on the set of bits, i.e. the NodeLen is not > meant to be a user configurable field. NodeLen is just a value that can be > precomputed and communicated to each node along the path, easing the burden > of per packet data plane processing. > > > > There have been offline suggestions that a translation table could be used > to determine this length, without having to do the arithmetic associated > with the individual bits. The issue with such an approach is that the > number of possible combinations is likely to be large. If only a subset of > combinations were to be included in the translation table, then this would > add an operational burden. The IOAM administrator would have to specify the > allowed combinations before the feature could be enabled, making IOAM more > difficult to use. > > > > > > I understand and agree that it improves data-path processing, maybe we > should document that it is up to the implementation if to use this field or > calculate it from the bit-vector. > > > > *[AK] We can say that this field is mandatory when a node creates the > initial header, it is up to the transit node implementation whether to use > it or rely on the bit-vector.* > That works for me. Mickey > > > Mickey > > > > > > Thanks, > > Aviv > > --f403045cf78c3a90e9055807fe16 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Aviv Kfir <avivk@mellanox.com>= ; wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Aviv Kfir
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:24 PM
To: 'Mickey Spiegel' <mspiegel@barefootnetworks.com><= br> Cc: ippm@ietf.org=
Subject: RE: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Mickey Spiegel [mailto:mspiegel@b= arefootnetworks.com]
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 9:56 AM
To: Aviv Kfir <avivk@mellanox.com>
Cc: ippm@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [ippm] NodeLen in In-situ OAM trace option

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Aviv Kfir <avivk@mellanox.com&= gt; wrote:

Hi All,

=C2=A0

NodeLen described as the total length of data needed= to be added by each node.

It contains 4bits in 4B resolution which means 4B up= to 60B.

=C2=A0

I see few issues with this field and want to open it= to a discussion.

=C2=A0

1.

There is no consideration to bit[7] "Opaque Sta= te Snapshot" which has variable length

=C2=A0

This points out that there is some ambiguity with re= spect to the meaning of bit[7]. When bit[7] is set, this indicates that som= e "opaque state" must be included in the IOAM trace node data lis= t, but it does not indicate what "opaque state" is intended to be captured. If there is more than one possible "opaqu= e state" field (i.e. more than one schema is supported), then the node= must determine which one to insert locally, perhaps based on configuration= .

=C2=A0

If it is desired to keep the "Opaque State Snap= shot" despite this issue, then the NodeLen could be defined as the len= gth of data added by each node in multiples of 4-octets, excluding the leng= th of the "Opaque State Snapshot". If bit[7] is not set, then the NodeLen specifies the actual length added by each nod= e. If bit[7] is set, then the actual length added by a node would be (NodeL= en + Opaque Data Length), assuming that the Opaque Data Length is changed t= o units of multiples of 4-octets.

=C2=A0

Agree, just need to document t= hat it does not include the variable length opaque length.=C2=A0

=

Agreed= .
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

2.

Regardless bit[7], when all bits are set where some = are short and some are wide, the current total is 14 where we have spare of= 4 bits (12-15). If they will be used this field will not be able to show the total node length

=C2=A0

Without considering bit[7], looking at the current b= its there should be no need for any combination with length greater than 11= .

Why would anyone need both short (4-octets) and wide= (8-octets) fields of Hop_Lim and Node_id?

Or both short and wide fields of ingress_if_id and e= gress_if_id?

Or both short and wide fields of app_data?=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

Agree that it is not reasonable to us= e both short and wide, it should be documented to restrict it.

For the other bits that are now reser= ved 12-15 (4 bits) we could reach to 15 which is the maximum value of this = field.

In case one of them will be defined a= s wide without a short version we will exceed the width of the field.

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

[AK] Adding additional b= it to the node-length field makes it more future compatible. We can take th= e additional bit from the flag field


I am not sure what o= ther uses people have in mind for the Flags field. I have no objections to = this.
=C2=A0

=

3.

Checks needs to be defined in case the NodeLen is no= t matching the number of bits in the trace type.

Suggest to add text that trace type field has preced= ence and if a node decides to use the NodeLen it is required to do checks o= n the trace type.

=C2=A0

This defeats the purpose of adding this field. In-si= tu OAM is designed to record information within data packets, without signi= ficantly affecting the processing of those data packets. As such, it is imp= ortant that it be specified in a manner that is hardware friendly.

=C2=A0

By including the NodeLen, it eases the task of data = plane processing. While inclusion of node data fields must be driven only b= y the IOAM-Trace-Type bits, it is also necessary to determine the length of= data added by each node. This length is used both to determine whether the Maximum Length would be exceeded, an= d to adjust the length of encapsulating headers.

=C2=A0

IOAM is meant to be used within a "network doma= in" operated by a single administration. The IOAM administrator would = specify the node data fields that are desired. Nodes at the edge of the net= work domain insert the appropriate IOAM Trace Option with the set of bits corresponding to the node data fields specifie= d by the IOAM administrator. A software driver can determine the NodeLen ba= sed on the set of bits, i.e. the NodeLen is not meant to be a user configur= able field. NodeLen is just a value that can be precomputed and communicated to each node along the path, easi= ng the burden of per packet data plane processing.

=C2=A0

There have been offline suggestions that a translati= on table could be used to determine this length, without having to do the a= rithmetic associated with the individual bits. The issue with such an appro= ach is that the number of possible combinations is likely to be large. If only a subset of combinations were = to be included in the translation table, then this would add an operational= burden. The IOAM administrator would have to specify the allowed combinati= ons before the feature could be enabled, making IOAM more difficult to use.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

I understand and agree that it improv= es data-path processing, maybe we should document that it is up to the impl= ementation if to use this field or calculate it from the bit-vector.

=C2=A0=

[AK] We can say that this field= is mandatory when a node creates the initial header, it is up to the trans= it node implementation whether to use it or rely on the bit-vector.

<= /div>

That works for me.
Mickey
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Mickey

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Aviv


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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: ietf@trammell.ch, ippm-chairs@ietf.org, spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com, ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150418931789.16768.2293891616420638478.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 07:21:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] ippm - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 14:21:58 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Brian Trammell, a Chair of the ippm working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IP Performance Measurement Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Brian Trammell Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 60 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: tsvarea tsvwg taps bmwg lmap xrblock quic Second Priority: v6ops 6man 6lo sunset4 opsec tcpm Third Priority: cdni People who must be present: Al Morton Frank Brockners Spencer Dawkins Brian Trammell Gregory Mirsky Bill Cerveny Giuseppe Fioccola Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please try not to schedule opposite irtfopen, iccrg, maprg. Do not schedule opposite panrg (hard conflict with chair) --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Aug 31 08:18:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87BD0132DBF; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:18:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150419271749.16762.18038907254429504761@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:18:37 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-07.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:18:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Alternate Marking method for passive and hybrid performance monitoring Authors : Giuseppe Fioccola Alessandro Capello Mauro Cociglio Luca Castaldelli Mach(Guoyi) Chen Lianshu Zheng Greg Mirsky Tal Mizrahi Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-07.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2017-08-31 Abstract: This document describes a method to perform packet loss, delay and jitter measurements on live traffic. This method is based on Alternate Marking (Coloring) technique. A report on the operational experiment done at Telecom Italia is explained in order to give an example and show the method applicability. This technique can be applied in various situations as detailed in this document and could be considered passive or hybrid depending on the application. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-alt-mark-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 31 08:54:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0181713236D for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 08:54:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 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