From bertietf@bwijnen.net Thu Apr 4 02:47:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553CF21F9644 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 02:47:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.639 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.639 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zD4T8Z1tmBx5 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 02:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from csmtp5.one.com (csmtp5.one.com [195.47.247.105]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4BC21F9643 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 02:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from guest211.guestnet.ripe.net (guest211.guestnet.ripe.net [193.0.10.242]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by csmtp5.one.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53CEF401375FB for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:47:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <515D4C25.4090304@bwijnen.net> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 11:47:17 +0200 From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netconf References: <5149DAEA.7010802@bwijnen.net> In-Reply-To: <5149DAEA.7010802@bwijnen.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Netconf] Action before May 1st: Advancement of NetConf RFCs X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 09:47:20 -0000 We (WG chairs) have had no reaction at all to the below. Should we conclude that there is NO REAL interest in advancing the documents? Please send in details as requested below, or a statement as to when you expect you can send us such details. If we do not get sufficient answers before May 1st, we'll consider the topic as closed for now. Bert and Mehmet On 3/20/13 4:51 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: > So are requested at the NetConf session at IETF86 in Orlando, > > PLEASE send me any deployment reports you may have. > > Some of you may be deploying netconf yourself. > Some of you may have nnn customers who bought netconf related products > from you or your companies. > Some of you may know about the number of downloads of open source > netconf code. > Some of you may know about planned deployments > > All that sort of info will be helpfull trying to justify that > we advance the documents. The documents we are considering are: > > - RFC6241, Network Configuration Protocol > - RFC6242, Using the NETCONF Protocol over Secure Shell > - RFC5717, Partial Lock Remote Procedure Call for NETCONF > - RFC5277, NETCONF Event Notifications > - RFC6243, With-defaults Capability for NETCONF > - RFC6536, Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model > > If you want tio keep it confidential, you can send it privately > to us (or one of us) chairs. Pls mark clearly of you indeed want > us to keep it confidential. We will then only count, but not > make any details public. > > Bert and Mehmet From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Thu Apr 4 04:07:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BBE21F9619 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 04:07:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QkTUTB1Pm-rb for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 04:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE74021F9615 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 04:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r34B7PFt002816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:07:28 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r34B7Pj4021973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:07:25 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.38) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:07:24 +0200 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.229]) by DEMUHTC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 4 Apr 2013 13:07:25 +0200 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Draft Minutes for the IETF 86 NETCONF Session Thread-Index: Ac4xJJXDXqgL3CZ2SfGyTPZNiZEZAA== Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 11:07:24 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.122] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 319 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1365073648-00004D0E-1FA4D1C9/0-0/0-0 Subject: [Netconf] Draft Minutes for the IETF 86 NETCONF Session X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2013 11:07:33 -0000 We uploaded the draft minutes for the IETF 86 NETCONF session. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/minutes/minutes-86-netconf Many thanks to our minute takers: Bill Fenner and David Kessens Please comment by April 18, 2013. Please send a note to the chairs if you can resolve the ?s. Cheers, Mehmet From lhotka@nic.cz Mon Apr 8 04:03:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8341121F8BF8 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:03:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GwfFj0jTRqbX for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B98EF21F85BF for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:9c5d:3810:cbd1:89bd] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:ac14:1400:9c5d:3810:cbd1:89bd]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D4932140342 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:03:43 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1365419023; bh=36WpdXH6m0d1mH/inhDgudAxayLuUS40UScf6PR0WSU=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=w8jWAa9wDScSja33qcV+jk/U5ojuc5de7cZmvMcZIsAN3naDB6p9xNXmzSTZgX+ih kRqdYi/1P89nEaeHrBfcUtIIre8uov0NfufxWAUY9+99pBaK9IoEJq8wo5OhPbXmXn usyXXJ8uiPo2krAFd6f6lvtTYBsOL0BQ7c9sEkvI= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0461E3EA-3C4F-414D-934C-F4C105DC90FE@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:03:43 +0200 To: Netconf Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.96.5 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [Netconf] YANG-API comments X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:03:45 -0000 Hi, I think YANG-API is an important work because it uses concepts and = technologies that are widely deployed and well-known to both developers = and admins. Here are my comments: 1. There might actually be use cases for two different APIs: (i) a limited but truly RESTful API with opaque URIs and only the = basic HTTP methods; (ii) a sophisticated API, with a functionality comparable to NETCONF, = where the client knows the data model and is expected to construct URI. API (i) would be suitable for browsers whereas (ii) would require a = specialized client app utilising HTTP PATCH for editing configurations. 2. In PUT, POST and PATCH, the name of the target node appears both in = the URI and in request contents. What if they are not the same? Maybe = the member name in the contents could be generic, e.g. "value". 3. I think that using the "insert" and "point" parameters with PUT = violates idempotency, which is a required property of the PUT method. = The example request in sec. 3.8.5 is certainly not idempotent. 4. The use of JSON Patch with HTTP PATCH is IMO worth investigating. One = scenario could be to have only datastores as resources, and YANG data = nodes inside them would be addressed using "path". =20 Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From lhotka@nic.cz Mon Apr 8 04:33:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDE021F9399 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:33:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6BIet17dumIc for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (nat-5.bravonet.cz [77.48.224.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9869421F93BF for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2CF54025F; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:33:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8NhLkB7G0Wuv; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:33:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [217.31.207.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D837C540189; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 13:32:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Bert Wijnen \(IETF\)" , netconf In-Reply-To: <515D4C25.4090304@bwijnen.net> References: <5149DAEA.7010802@bwijnen.net> <515D4C25.4090304@bwijnen.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.15.2+56~gf55b35b (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/23.3.50.1 (i386-apple-darwin9.8.0) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 13:32:56 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Netconf] Action before May 1st: Advancement of NetConf RFCs X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:33:18 -0000 Hi, CZ.NIC is currently implementing NETCONF as the main configuration tool for "DNS Collector" software (https://redmine.labs.nic.cz/projects/dns-collector/wiki) that is intended for monitoring DNS traffic in TLD name servers. We use libnetconf. I also plan to implement NETCONF for the BIRD routing daemon (http://bird.network.cz). Lada "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" writes: > We (WG chairs) have had no reaction at all to the below. > Should we conclude that there is NO REAL interest in > advancing the documents? > > Please send in details as requested below, or a statement > as to when you expect you can send us such details. > > If we do not get sufficient answers before May 1st, > we'll consider the topic as closed for now. > > Bert and Mehmet > > On 3/20/13 4:51 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) wrote: >> So are requested at the NetConf session at IETF86 in Orlando, >> >> PLEASE send me any deployment reports you may have. >> >> Some of you may be deploying netconf yourself. >> Some of you may have nnn customers who bought netconf related products >> from you or your companies. >> Some of you may know about the number of downloads of open source >> netconf code. >> Some of you may know about planned deployments >> >> All that sort of info will be helpfull trying to justify that >> we advance the documents. The documents we are considering are: >> >> - RFC6241, Network Configuration Protocol >> - RFC6242, Using the NETCONF Protocol over Secure Shell >> - RFC5717, Partial Lock Remote Procedure Call for NETCONF >> - RFC5277, NETCONF Event Notifications >> - RFC6243, With-defaults Capability for NETCONF >> - RFC6536, Network Configuration Protocol Access Control Model >> >> If you want tio keep it confidential, you can send it privately >> to us (or one of us) chairs. Pls mark clearly of you indeed want >> us to keep it confidential. We will then only count, but not >> make any details public. >> >> Bert and Mehmet > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From bclaise@cisco.com Mon Apr 8 07:12:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCB121F94C3; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 07:12:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.319, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WdY+b8RggFRe; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 07:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from av-tac-bru.cisco.com (weird-brew.cisco.com [144.254.15.118]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C0E21F935A; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 07:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r38E1nGt024009; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 16:01:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.60.67.87] (ams-bclaise-8916.cisco.com [10.60.67.87]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r38E1XsT016387; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 16:01:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5162CD72.9050201@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 16:00:18 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group , NETCONF References: <5162CBD4.9080708@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5162CBD4.9080708@cisco.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <5162CBD4.9080708@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030606000503050304000603" Subject: [Netconf] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A_=5Bi2rs=5D_I2RS_OPS_technical_adv?= =?iso-8859-1?q?isor=3A_J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 14:12:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030606000503050304000603 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050305080708050008050002" --------------050305080708050008050002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FYI. Regards, Benoit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [i2rs] I2RS OPS technical advisor: Jürgen Schönwälder Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:24 +0200 From: Benoit Claise To: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org CC: ops-ads@tools.ietf.org , Juergen Schoenwaelder , i2rs-chairs@ietf.org, i2rs@ietf.org Dear all, I would like to announce Jürgen Schönwälder as the I2RS OPS technical advisor. Jürgen is very knowledgeable in OPS in general, in NETCONF/YANG and SNMP/MIB, and in data modeling in general. Exactly like he did in the recent LMAP BoF, he will be able to help with the pros and cons of the different OPS protocols ... Also, let me stress an important aspect behind Jürgen's selection as OPS technical advisor: he's not biased. Even if he is one of the netmod chairs, his job doesn't depend on the success of a particular solution. Bottom line: I'm sure Jürgen will do an excellent job. He will be monitoring the I2RS progress, but don't hesitate to involve him in the OPS-related discussions. The agreement with Jürgen is that he will not be doing this job /ad vitam æternam/. That makes sense: once the I2RS use cases and requirements are done, and that the protocol and data model are selected, the OPS technical advisor job should be done. The I2RS charter page has been updated. Regards, Benoit (OPS AD° --------------050305080708050008050002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI.

Regards, Benoit


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [i2rs] I2RS OPS technical advisor: Jürgen Schönwälder
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:24 +0200
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
To: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
CC: ops-ads@tools.ietf.org <ops-ads@tools.ietf.org>, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, i2rs-chairs@ietf.org, i2rs@ietf.org


Dear all,

I would like to announce Jürgen Schönwälder as the I2RS OPS technical advisor.

Jürgen is very knowledgeable in OPS in general, in NETCONF/YANG and SNMP/MIB, and in data modeling in general.
Exactly like he did in the recent LMAP BoF, he will be able to help with the pros and cons of the different OPS protocols ... Also, let me stress an important aspect behind Jürgen's selection as OPS technical advisor: he's not biased. Even if he is one of the netmod chairs, his job doesn't depend on the success of a particular solution.
Bottom line: I'm sure Jürgen will do an excellent job. He will be monitoring the I2RS progress, but don't hesitate to involve him in the OPS-related discussions.

The agreement with Jürgen is that he will not be doing this job ad vitam æternam. 
That makes sense: once the I2RS use cases and requirements are done, and that the protocol and data model are selected, the OPS technical advisor job should be done.

The I2RS charter page has been updated.

Regards, Benoit (OPS AD°


--------------050305080708050008050002-- --------------030606000503050304000603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Attached Message Part" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Attached Message Part" _______________________________________________ i2rs mailing list i2rs@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i2rs --------------030606000503050304000603-- From andy@yumaworks.com Mon Apr 8 19:31:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5D421F8EDF for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.082, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YEm9QU9zbFXq for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x231.google.com (mail-ie0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFB321F8E62 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id tp5so7959768ieb.36 for ; Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Tbr40o+FQTi6u2Fg8qdcfO3CTYQj1iTQb8BdFlb52dM=; b=hexomus1MwG/KfZn3X4RUlOnsh5B7ebQSxmJXzUNfOAAP8yT2ceSLlbSImVcmuL6br 4M4OQiUh2o9sQAGASJ3UeY8lXSBTTLBIfpPxGdPY4Qj5FqZ26P8faATfJQaMrzlULCoN rPdkhGfmaC6XNFxkEnZB0T1YnzhQolQYXL4U7K9ZIJTv7/Kyr2Uu/ieQg+SNmEd+Tx1q CoY8Zsa2znK9vT7DQm4gfiUE9+AOe+XvsyJLxQPC6V17hCOwSDhWZ7WPf0J0Smd3TnuS F9fr+ibc91hv4KqLp2iO11eKIAwOTegH8JfKHO7FfQjWoApaHMI9N4GzNAJunKK3sAGV WPPg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.136.138 with SMTP id qa10mr9082319igb.74.1365474669677; Mon, 08 Apr 2013 19:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.11.2 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:31:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130409022627.16888.35291.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2013 19:31:09 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnOYErAUhHfthLpN4poBVdJg3/AZRDvcerTpENmV365zbTLgFrBqJm8HpZVMWk/JcUB2+au Cc: Netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-bierman-netconf-get2-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 02:31:10 -0000 oops -- sorry NETMOD, meant to send to NETCONF WG... On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > FYI, > > I updated the draft. > References and definitions related to operational state have > been removed since that work is very TBD and new operations > and/or datastores may be needed > > > Andy > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: > Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 7:26 PM > Subject: I-D Action: draft-bierman-netconf-get2-03.txt > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : The NETCONF Operation > Author(s) : Andy Bierman > Filename : draft-bierman-netconf-get2-03.txt > Pages : 28 > Date : 2013-04-08 > > Abstract: > This document describes NETCONF protocol enhancements to improve data > retrieval capabilities. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bierman-netconf-get2 > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bierman-netconf-get2-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-bierman-netconf-get2-03 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Fri Apr 12 06:29:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE2B21F8C8C for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:29:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WaYatGJAxO2I for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA45921F8CE5 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 06:29:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r3CDTbi3018278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:29:37 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r3CDTbLu009557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:29:37 +0200 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.229]) by DEMUHTC002.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:29:36 +0200 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text Thread-Index: Ac43gcZBI0IihwBoSgWyY8JKmyGZJg== Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:29:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3407 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1365773377-00004D0E-DD40090E/0-0/0-0 Subject: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 13:29:41 -0000 Dear NETCONF WG, we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and developing= the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment by the s= erver. The session attendees supported the development of call home for bot= h, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on Reverse= SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft agree= d to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session agreement, = the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing list and add= call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as plann= ed by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to the = charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the re= sponse we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the charte= r text below with a short note to the co-chairs. Bert & Mehmet =3D=3D=3D modified charter text =3D=3D=3D In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup will focus on following items: 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a server-initiated session establishment. 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., update RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated session establishment. 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing any reported errata. Goals and Milestones: Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed Stand= ard Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed Standard Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules poste= d Done - WGLC for NACM document Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed Sta= ndard Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for con= sideration as Proposed Standard May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and 6242 May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 implementat= ion/deployment experience Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Sta= ndard Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed St= andard Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experie= nce doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC =3D=3D=3D end-of modified charter text =3D=3D=3D From andy@yumaworks.com Fri Apr 12 19:14:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE3721F8EC9 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.258, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tebw2FTmd9Xh for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x233.google.com (mail-ia0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5852021F8EA5 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f179.google.com with SMTP id l25so2898930iad.24 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=SVUXTPrcX5MQpU5bKByl6saKrSoEXsIp51Vyz8ooqDA=; b=f6tSKhZBV4KvjrS+RYH0ZO7noJPdYZhnmZzwRWIilck726/3uxvhwsteySGKnUCYSu U7+WcrBnaMpmDXduj/B/Uyt0J2ZaxYR5/wQAGGRCYOFQiDj+wJrC3Mfv0a6gvaE23XJH /KtuAGiznRjXkm/rW8d0xhjQojOytv0DDV2IE1aVZ92sItrNP2XpFAu/XSmhY2YmOKYL MkpqyUiEQeSSkKRGSiyYzHXCMkvopxk3LDVxTFX74MMlYz3ZmaUjaUlKnInm8jQSD750 C5tFx63EKX53EDmyIPul+IEUE7xr6cahdIKqNsr0FSjkcvD9AOGvufbZIoCDy8QxTqTk bTsQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.236.100 with SMTP id ut4mr528275igc.86.1365819274967; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 19:14:34 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmmUxvMCtltlfqgfm3pG7mSxdgiGwupnwJ/VKatqDm4KeyFMUXXK0r50Tm7PUmorYCtdYDI Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 02:14:36 -0000 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Dear NETCONF WG, > I don't object to this work, but I don't think it very high priority. Since no current drafts related to this topic exist, it is hard to guess how long it will take the WG to finish. Getting to WGLC within a month of starting seems rather unrealistic. There was also strong support for the operation when it was presented, and lots of interest in better support for operational state. I find the division between NETMOD and NETCONF labor to be artificial, since so many NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior. I don't think a very good solution will be reached for operational state unless the charters are coordinated better. I also wonder why the IESG will approve a charter item for Reverse SSH to be done in the NETCONF WG, or why they will like it now when they did not at the Call-home BoF several years ago. Andy > we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and developi= ng the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment by the= server. The session attendees supported the development of call home for b= oth, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. > > For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on Rever= se SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft agr= eed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session agreement= , the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing list and a= dd call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. > > If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as pla= nned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to th= e charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. > > Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the = response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. > > Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. > > Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the char= ter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. > > Bert & Mehmet > > > =3D=3D=3D modified charter text =3D=3D=3D > > In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup > will focus on following items: > > 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a > server-initiated session establishment. > > 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., updat= e > RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated > session establishment. > > 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and > interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. > The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing > any reported errata. > > Goals and Milestones: > Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis > Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed Sta= ndard > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted > Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed Standa= rd > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules pos= ted > Done - WGLC for NACM document > Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document > Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed S= tandard > Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for c= onsideration as Proposed Standard > May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH > May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and 62= 42 > May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 implement= ation/deployment experience > Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis > Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH > Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience > Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed S= tandard > Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed = Standard > Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment exper= ience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC > > =3D=3D=3D end-of modified charter text =3D=3D=3D > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Sat Apr 13 03:50:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A88721F8842 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 03:50:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.074 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.074 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.175, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fsfZYnQmEqP6 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 03:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5790021F869A for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 03:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB6720C07; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:50:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aBNFf5fHiddN; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:50:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB1B20C01; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:50:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 77E88259FF51; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:50:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:50:16 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 10:50:18 -0000 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 07:14:34PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > I find the division between NETMOD and NETCONF labor > to be artificial, since so many NETMOD drafts specify > YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior. While I might agree on your general statement, I disagree with the argument you bring forward. I think none of the current NETMOD I-Ds has a YANG extension that changes the NETCONF protocol behaviour. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 13 06:40:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E99721F891D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.221, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NbqmgERaFHTZ for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com (mail-ie0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB7521F884F for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id bn7so4444903ieb.9 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=hIKbn3W5Sa+zT3rx2rvGXznfL7qaA+HAuC5HVg2TnFw=; b=hcljjpzfuxnffFCR44H1YLIfcwTdc6epajKbhk5ByKXmcM7B2vqscpAYhb37DytvgE pu8dp1Tt/C2XnPXkXz081LFSU/EA84Kvag9pZnwsKUXAk2zP/VI4IyyqdfNB25M5ZbSW cIBVnB5KZ1ouqpCEE4+R/z4zdewzIU57f+IN7sW80+7XRh7yKazuEfsPySe1/yx9HsAj juop0QrK3TBz4J1GGPgonL67Dc13aBTCHeCaRzfVIcnoeJQpmtn3FFurR+Al5EnyGlTY aYPF9z3NHbPD+GzT2kzvmk+ym+5PEiC3hiCZ0SpMlHVXWG2wosUhLFdF+7zpoBSZdxce 6j6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.7.69 with SMTP id h5mr1574269iga.69.1365860402958; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 06:40:02 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQle7CaIHWLej1YT8U/KfO66Wi/acTiD60vTPveg54P35zcaGtFreGuU6ihbr3cpBiTcrCkH Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:40:04 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 07:14:34PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> I find the division between NETMOD and NETCONF labor >> to be artificial, since so many NETMOD drafts specify >> YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior. > > While I might agree on your general statement, I disagree with the > argument you bring forward. I think none of the current NETMOD I-Ds > has a YANG extension that changes the NETCONF protocol behaviour. > I was referring to the work on operational state. I assume that the current NETMOD drafts will eventually be finished this year. IMO any YANG module that even slightly breaks the contract established by base:1.1 or standard capabilities is not acceptable, so changing the protocol via YANG modules is not going to work (for operational state and in general). > /js Andy From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Sat Apr 13 08:13:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458A521F86FA for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:13:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z4gaqn-fR806 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9567A21F8675 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21CA20BED; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:13:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMXAINtPWOQg; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:13:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA5C20BE8; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:13:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C6FE625A0561; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:13:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:13:29 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:13:27 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 06:40:02AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 07:14:34PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> I find the division between NETMOD and NETCONF labor > >> to be artificial, since so many NETMOD drafts specify > >> YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior. > > > > While I might agree on your general statement, I disagree with the > > argument you bring forward. I think none of the current NETMOD I-Ds > > has a YANG extension that changes the NETCONF protocol behaviour. > > > > I was referring to the work on operational state. > I assume that the current NETMOD drafts will eventually > be finished this year. > > IMO any YANG module that even slightly breaks the contract > established by base:1.1 or standard capabilities is not > acceptable, so changing the protocol via YANG modules > is not going to work (for operational state and in general). > Again, the operational state discussion was in NETCONF not NETMOD. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 13 08:35:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B0221F86BC for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.771 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U00Z1fbz8MLs for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26E921F8654 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id k13so1401660iea.4 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=2PboY0cW+s2ztTkph4wxMCiptmkT3t566kUx0L7xxeA=; b=QZFPsylMQZJ1iv0nz/w+pQ+S64KMH/Tx4YrbZnWJxsSw5qckITC2rONf9jJRFjxa/J yAxR0Bme6Huz1kvlHNDle73glG3RGF1g/uLzo35kVeO8EDeX8vTqvlF2l5TYb2/eNcxP udg6Cgx6VAIlFURXFZCx2i367M+gll7Jg+7Yahq/0IQGpXHPDEGxPSs7QPSmAKTOPX/Z xdkhevuoWnnhkk6up8X/mUv3tsU5F/lPLFMx22jd/g0Zn89YS0lXlk0QGWzdczscnL2q 3flrKMuE0dMJp9QxO/e7R0n05T7IZFn6JNbN4TBceARvzq37H5dV8SFCpvyrwSzxIWNG 1imQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.170.36 with SMTP id aj4mr1645163igc.67.1365867315151; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 08:35:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkihe44SRUIMfgnRFYY5v5Z9YxXi6mG3qV51ewwGRKkWrcVqxwQB8BSMaLE+wLgQ7hTxZuS Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:35:16 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 06:40:02AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:50 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >> wrote: >> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 07:14:34PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> > >> >> I find the division between NETMOD and NETCONF labor >> >> to be artificial, since so many NETMOD drafts specify >> >> YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior. >> > >> > While I might agree on your general statement, I disagree with the >> > argument you bring forward. I think none of the current NETMOD I-Ds >> > has a YANG extension that changes the NETCONF protocol behaviour. >> > >> >> I was referring to the work on operational state. >> I assume that the current NETMOD drafts will eventually >> be finished this year. >> >> IMO any YANG module that even slightly breaks the contract >> established by base:1.1 or standard capabilities is not >> acceptable, so changing the protocol via YANG modules >> is not going to work (for operational state and in general). >> > > Again, the operational state discussion was in NETCONF not NETMOD. > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, which expired 5 days ago. > /js Andy From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Sat Apr 13 11:20:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCD421F8B61 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.103 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.103 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.146, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nwcENXJF+NZ4 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC0FE21F8B2B for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C36720BF1; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:20:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CdX5l1XSA0g8; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:20:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA3520BEF; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:20:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5C89B25A0A3F; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:20:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:20:22 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 18:20:21 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > which expired 5 days ago. > An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the last IETF: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol behavior". Coming back to the topic of this thread, I think the NETCONF community needs to prioritize the various work items that have been proposed (in square brackets people who have worked on this): - call home for tls [Juergen] - call home for ssh [Kent] - handling operational state [Martin] - improved retrieval (get2) [Andy] - alternate encodings [Lada, Andy] - mechanisms to comment out config [Kent] - REST API to access NETCONF datastore(s) [Martin, Andy] - advancement of RFCs [Bert, Mehmet] - ... Right now, it seems contributors want to run into different directions or all directions at the same time. The list may be incomplete or incorrect but it is necessary that we find a way to prioritize all these things. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 13 11:41:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EEC21F8C5C for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jEDXit-6xM4d for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x22d.google.com (mail-ia0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A9821F8CE2 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f173.google.com with SMTP id j5so2771667iaf.18 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=U1dkqFlDvJbpmWrFLsahHVjXhPCm60YGgBiz84Uw6WI=; b=bpu35HxcTIj3hrDaCXnVewBzDOXP0yPov/Xfpv+3ZnG1J+fnGiZkKsqWADumlLifew PK9j3eCNXt+oxwe/JcvveOca/2ILCYre97SC9q2SUpiYByCMzD5Xe8s3q2u+lnmgu734 X/z0NB8FqK1FCUuNzECEKqvmmj9fYu4sZmHTOns7dP28j7gdeTOLOO0fklau2CwyYejf rqYEb8pSeiVaAAJ5RY5UwpmXzOtIArhUnJekAZuXHIB6CR+1zsuwBgJgq0Z1RaJI1ALf zthbFQey9OiTRsnbUAg5XIiaRn38NfAZ1FKGIl4iHW4vQZ+0UGMtRonVTsQmSe19n1OI WfEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.236.100 with SMTP id ut4mr1837568igc.86.1365878471913; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:41:11 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkPTTalGa5hf8joo+JiXPce5SerWA6O+eXpf56Mq822XrGTgWSutcnGRwZSGFCM8WWARj3c Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 18:41:13 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, >> which expired 5 days ago. >> > > An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > last IETF: > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html > > While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many > NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > behavior". > I did not say merge -- I said coordinate the charters better. Big difference. > Coming back to the topic of this thread, I think the NETCONF community > needs to prioritize the various work items that have been proposed (in > square brackets people who have worked on this): > > - call home for tls [Juergen] > - call home for ssh [Kent] > - handling operational state [Martin] > - improved retrieval (get2) [Andy] > - alternate encodings [Lada, Andy] > - mechanisms to comment out config [Kent] > - REST API to access NETCONF datastore(s) [Martin, Andy] > - advancement of RFCs [Bert, Mehmet] > - ... > > Right now, it seems contributors want to run into different directions > or all directions at the same time. The list may be incomplete or > incorrect but it is necessary that we find a way to prioritize all > these things. > Agreed. > /js > Andy From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 13 11:47:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9793921F8E04 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.182, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3t-k9DwzMe2s for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x22b.google.com (mail-ia0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31AAA21F8D86 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f171.google.com with SMTP id f27so1408341iae.16 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=QttAVHgb/sk+JHv+9LU9IaY9A5YgzXAsUdgMKzCMRDk=; b=GMMrv7rnn2Rrdlk0ky0aEwQfcEKFc8A29seu0XXdpAqNkFiKsEqSbY9s4TG9JZZsit Wfbt2N1Ojut/OO9tI+d9FdvenejeMs2bQeK+xuSZrU6Opvw/nOw5NoEVt3yZBYY5EsL8 ecfpHdZVQKJd1EmKrp42RKpcUzFCBu6WSfdlSgEBYK46kKtSEwMoUEcrpafuLdfrtGtY HmhKMmk/xPbZVctVq7Y0m2sm7NU4WY5uf62qQZgZrptVmypPvuU5bZdl5yaOZb2P7utE s1CxbXj6yGmO4DNA6+1DpBa0qGv9sUjFBp9+tTgT/LihfKqetjOnxkvNB88RA7mvie/D Ldkw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.114.195 with SMTP id ji3mr1981539igb.67.1365878824487; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnqPo6VAbfw9Mkh9PYocgfYqGIUP8r2TvL/FKAR8FDPDFRKo9kGl8jzHQ7LRrIcs5hRVn2A Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 18:47:05 -0000 ... > I did not say merge -- I said coordinate the charters better. Big difference. > IMO, we should be feature oriented. We decide what feature to work on, and write charter proposals for all the WGs involved (probably just NETCONF and NETMOD). We figure out at the start what work is needed in each WG and all WG charters have to be aligned and all have to get approved, or none of them get to be done. Andy From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Sat Apr 13 12:09:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D738821F863C for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.114 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.114 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.135, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s81LxVNFz0yf for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EB621F8682 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C52320BF1; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:09:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hdBtKnlHoP2j; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:09:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D9820AFE; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:09:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2D17D25A0C17; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:09:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:09:49 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20130413190949.GA19430@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20130413105016.GB18152@elstar.local> <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 19:09:47 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:41:11AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > >> I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > >> which expired 5 days ago. > >> > > > > An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > > discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > > last IETF: > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html > > > > While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many > > NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > > behavior". > > > > I did not say merge -- I said coordinate the charters better. Big difference. > The existing charters are IMHO well coordinated - I do not know what should have been done better in terms of separating protocol work from data modeling work. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From mbj@tail-f.com Sat Apr 13 13:39:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0209121F863C for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:39:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.446 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.446 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJM1AxlZdv+F for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-2007.d.ipeer.se [213.180.74.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D6C21F8615 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (c213-100-166-57.cust.tele2.se [213.100.166.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E52F1200D5E; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 22:39:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 22:39:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20130413.223936.308386830.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> References: <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5rc2 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 20:39:40 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > > which expired 5 days ago. > > > > An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > last IETF: > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html > > While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many > NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > behavior". And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations to NETCONF. /martin From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 13 14:48:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307A821F8605 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:48:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.806 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.806 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cU4iAw+Aaz6D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com (mail-ie0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0BE021F84E3 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f181.google.com with SMTP id as1so126139iec.40 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=y6CiLp5+Rl/IR52bGoElHhGafhdWW3KS5g9Nl6MfUzo=; b=peSmQ0voMzF+1mzJZyMhLpXSZEsujdySo6i8qi6kbiw6/dogE58GVWcQh/FHpfZRv6 7wWt+9HmKVDzKQJo/UseZdIiMYPPP0juG3iZh+8KOj1bVmzlu4GOzoAEkeARfirdrdhn np6dJ8JqAQoNr/4q3MJGBwvfSb2diU9uiHIeb08qSkZRYUon/zjHNZh8D+vsq95gxPvP zLfWkXfK+ZNH/NcPXFS62O8/vEAPgP9dQIiWCAE9m2ADt3vLgkLtvnbYTnH91o2YgxO5 U+G6n3zCetuOhqQIX9shT8V5z+LTqQ//AE+LXkEKCRmw7SBIkthn8+Zu5qG2lOFOPODv zoYA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.6.34 with SMTP id x2mr2115644igx.86.1365889678633; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130413.223936.308386830.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20130413151329.GA18928@elstar.local> <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> <20130413.223936.308386830.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 14:47:58 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlFzn/OPDWeQYLg+u7B1i3QhSZRVDXXKi9c5Nd4GpQi+76ntAlqe6F1geIOrNqRC8LcSir5 Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:48:00 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> > >> > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, >> > which expired 5 days ago. >> > >> >> An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The >> discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the >> last IETF: >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html >> >> While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many >> NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol >> behavior". > > And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of > existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations > to NETCONF. > > IMO breaks the base:1.1 contract because a base:1.1 client does not know about . It will think that only special leafs (like duplex=auto) are allowed to have a different operational value than the configured value. A "new client" using can break a compliant base:1.1 client using the same server. > /martin Andy From mbj@tail-f.com Sat Apr 13 15:00:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1F921F8E6D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.746 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P4Q187IYtndK for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-2007.d.ipeer.se [213.180.74.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A5821F8E49 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 15:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (c213-100-166-57.cust.tele2.se [213.100.166.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8354A1200174; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:00:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:00:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20130414.000011.469676972.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20130413182022.GB19257@elstar.local> <20130413.223936.308386830.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5rc2 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 22:00:14 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > > >> > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > >> > which expired 5 days ago. > >> > > >> > >> An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > >> discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > >> last IETF: > >> > >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html > >> > >> While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many > >> NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > >> behavior". > > > > And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of > > existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations > > to NETCONF. > > > > > > IMO breaks the base:1.1 contract because > a base:1.1 client does not know about . > It will think that only special leafs (like duplex=auto) > are allowed to have a different operational value than > the configured value. > > A "new client" using can break a > compliant base:1.1 client using the same server. No. An old client will never do , so it will do or . This document does not change the behavior of these operations. If an old client performs on a node that is config true, it will receive the running config's value, as defined in RFC 6241. /martin From andy@yumaworks.com Sun Apr 14 08:29:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6051821F9113 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.815 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.815 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q3rexdzrEiX1 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x233.google.com (mail-ie0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C919221F910B for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 16so263252iea.10 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=BxHqN4HdPBNPC17XIhB9IztLEPDXiQwZKRfSSgz+pms=; b=fvIVagQiIVaiYe+3VizpLE7+bmaCbF3faxGimTpkRAjf3aqK0hr3XjlC/986MIzTgn Ql0zOKDMvKS51ZVwOk4zXD9qF2mo4Mq+XmqnHbAl9lCeNUZoZqdaderxXXaM8aBnKBU8 YFZMG6NLT8Iy0ssHcVSa0kS/Dw3BQXeQZU3ZYeW0kNNE2o1Um8n9ooDJe+66cfhOShJL e4VxGn9UVRhjEJk6pQxVDr4khUeq1u2jODbcR8R/tFLRt8Ms20vkpJ1PT6pIiGJTcuJl wsQju5FLG2ckB/eJTbvH2vjo7YdK5Z4b2Q0jb3GTnh+k4mj0Iq8aZ+dVZwrRzHttuPrw YGNw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.236.100 with SMTP id ut4mr3129323igc.86.1365953343304; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:29:03 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmlZ8nqxCLcCv3uGHpid1L5RTpralY+cxRlsncgIjmTrZ2jCl3k8phsrVHQPUAqzwrg/3yH Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] more operational state (was Re: Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:29:04 -0000 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> > >> >> > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, >> >> > which expired 5 days ago. >> >> > >> >> >> >> An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The >> >> discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the >> >> last IETF: >> >> >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html >> >> >> >> While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many >> >> NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol >> >> behavior". >> > >> > And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of >> > existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations >> > to NETCONF. >> > >> > >> >> IMO breaks the base:1.1 contract because >> a base:1.1 client does not know about . >> It will think that only special leafs (like duplex=auto) >> are allowed to have a different operational value than >> the configured value. >> >> A "new client" using can break a >> compliant base:1.1 client using the same server. > > No. An old client will never do , so it will do > or . This document does not change the behavior of > these operations. If an old client performs on a node that is > config true, it will receive the running config's value, as defined in > RFC 6241. > An old client will only know about base:1.1 and the YANG modules the server supports. Unless the semantics of a YANG data node indicate the operational value is allowed to be different than the configured value, the client is not expecting this to happen, IMO, the key to your solution is a missing YANG extension to tag a YANG data node with these semantics: extension with-operational { description "This extension identifies whether the operational value associated with a configuration data node is allowed to be different than the configured value for the specified data definition. If this extension is present directly within a data-def statement for a configuration data node, then any data node instance for that node is allowed to have an operational value which are different from the configured value."; } leaf duplex { oper:with-operational; type enumeration { enum "half"; enum "full"; enum "auto"; } config true; } IMO, this allows old clients to be compatible with new servers and new clients, since is only allowed to alter nodes that support a different operational value. > > /martin Andy From mbj@tail-f.com Sun Apr 14 08:59:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2668821F9132 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:59:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6H6Fbvc9dyZK for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-2007.d.ipeer.se [213.180.74.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6208F21F9128 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (c213-100-166-57.cust.tele2.se [213.100.166.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B32EC1200174; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:59:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:59:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20130414.175933.492843171.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5rc2 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] more operational state X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 15:59:36 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > >> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > >> >> > which expired 5 days ago. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > >> >> discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > >> >> last IETF: > >> >> > >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html > >> >> > >> >> While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many > >> >> NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > >> >> behavior". > >> > > >> > And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of > >> > existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations > >> > to NETCONF. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> IMO breaks the base:1.1 contract because > >> a base:1.1 client does not know about . > >> It will think that only special leafs (like duplex=auto) > >> are allowed to have a different operational value than > >> the configured value. > >> > >> A "new client" using can break a > >> compliant base:1.1 client using the same server. > > > > No. An old client will never do , so it will do > > or . This document does not change the behavior of > > these operations. If an old client performs on a node that is > > config true, it will receive the running config's value, as defined in > > RFC 6241. > > > > An old client will only know about base:1.1 and the YANG modules > the server supports. Unless the semantics of a YANG data node > indicate the operational value is allowed to be different than the > configured value, the client is not expecting this to happen, A client cannot make this assumption with or without this draft. Again, take the duplex leaf as an example. If the configured value is 'auto', the operationally used value is certainly something else. Another example is pre-provisioning of some hardware. If the hardware is not there, the pre-configured values are not operationally used. /martin From andy@yumaworks.com Sun Apr 14 09:08:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C10B21F91A2 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.823 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.155, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ElJ-UNxcAAvp for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9590421F919A for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id e14so4986712iej.16 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=hycn41F61/H4ZnH7H+7cp6JQ3Ji0+AFhdX1jdZr6FN8=; b=fw309Kb0tQMY8pnVYm7P1fAkSyrUUUXMcDNDMw9sWayYTPw02YGGF4U0TWcoeBy7w7 gwLY4QvuKBaYFFBEjFmn8Z0Tl3CRrXwXQ4zwsNwGOC121+NIrOuSofKrkTOKKvFnlFJ6 f5PCY/Qk59IJFEfLoOhaD+fy4NlVoX1hQLp4s5EujubXVXxaNfKR4TY/YjUuEBdv5VzE aHGSKLSJyuK+Yd/2EPpsJ7eI2Fut/qgY2dNIhsN3Z3OVycgBk2t8/o9fBUqH8XrdR3e4 NJRg/hJU0cNFveRUDaIZs3tgfbjX1TW9W9VHX5zicjKGi5fRPC42qOThP1nnMwJmW4V6 OECw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.236.100 with SMTP id ut4mr3181407igc.86.1365955694122; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130414.175933.492843171.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20130414.175933.492843171.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:08:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnFpuFLaSXfFRxfJA7kSH0lGDWtcyj4Ruytnb/ahda3t1bNUoYQGt0jbC71uE3PloLRk+/U Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] more operational state X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:08:19 -0000 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >> > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, >> >> >> > which expired 5 days ago. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The >> >> >> discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the >> >> >> last IETF: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=agenda-86-netconf.html >> >> >> >> >> >> While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "many >> >> >> NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol >> >> >> behavior". >> >> > >> >> > And, for the record, this draft does not change the behavior of >> >> > existing NETCONF protocol behavior. It adds new optional operations >> >> > to NETCONF. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> IMO breaks the base:1.1 contract because >> >> a base:1.1 client does not know about . >> >> It will think that only special leafs (like duplex=auto) >> >> are allowed to have a different operational value than >> >> the configured value. >> >> >> >> A "new client" using can break a >> >> compliant base:1.1 client using the same server. >> > >> > No. An old client will never do , so it will do >> > or . This document does not change the behavior of >> > these operations. If an old client performs on a node that is >> > config true, it will receive the running config's value, as defined in >> > RFC 6241. >> > >> >> An old client will only know about base:1.1 and the YANG modules >> the server supports. Unless the semantics of a YANG data node >> indicate the operational value is allowed to be different than the >> configured value, the client is not expecting this to happen, > > A client cannot make this assumption with or without this draft. > > Again, take the duplex leaf as an example. If the configured value is > 'auto', the operationally used value is certainly something else. > Another example is pre-provisioning of some hardware. If the hardware > is not there, the pre-configured values are not operationally used. > If the YANG object defines enum "auto" correctly then the client does know the operational value can be different. If the semantics of the object contain this property, then a developer of a client application must know about it, because they read the YANG module. The point of this tag is not to say all instances of the data node have different operational values. Just that instances are allowed to have different operational values. Obviously would be used to know for sure which instances are indeed different. > > /martin Andy From balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Mon Apr 15 04:27:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D28A21F937A for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:27:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n122AVziXRQv for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0622221F9352 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 04:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7f366d000004d10-e5-516be413801c Received: from esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 84.21.19728.314EB615; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:27:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [159.107.197.124] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0184.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:27:15 +0200 Message-ID: <516BE412.4070700@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:27:14 +0200 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3VlfkSXagwfKX7BYf7lxhsZi66Tar A5PHkiU/mTx+rr/KHsAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJWxYt8VloLJ8hUnep6xNDDOkuhi5OSQEDCR mLrhNwuELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgVOMEmtmH2SGcNYySrxe9p4NpIpXQFti4u05rCA2i4CqxMWJ d8G62QSMJKb2nwezRQWiJPZuuMwMUS8ocXLmE7C4iICNRP+ib0wgNrOApsTavx/BaoQF0iWO TlsHZgsJ+Ercfr6NEcTmFPCTeNjaD1VvK3FhznUWCFteYvvbOVD1GhIPL/xlncAoOAvJullI WmYhaVnAyLyKkT03MTMnvdxoEyMwKA9u+a26g/HOOZFDjNIcLErivOGuFwKEBNITS1KzU1ML Uovii0pzUosPMTJxcEo1MPqyX3ymL3gqzeb+Js439iX8c90ynxlccVQ4lbHo7NI83z49+5h3 MSYRSztKfjFLx+j1HHvEbJuRbZZzdfH86wmHWVuz3jq/+VE7f4m4/odl/75pvfCI9UvZ0nK8 YuahRoGAa719iWtMNXOWnll1OcK65Mm0mX3rHz6++aJhdlvR8wznWffYepVYijMSDbWYi4oT AWO9C7gYAgAA Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:27:18 -0000 I agree with the need for call home. It is the highest priority at the moment for Ericsson. Balazs On 2013-04-12 15:29, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Dear NETCONF WG, > > we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment by the server. The session attendees supported the development of call home for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. > > For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. > > If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. > > Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. > > Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. > > Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. > > Bert & Mehmet > > > === modified charter text === > > In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup > will focus on following items: > > 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a > server-initiated session establishment. > > 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., update > RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated > session establishment. > > 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and > interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. > The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing > any reported errata. > > Goals and Milestones: > Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis > Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted > Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed Standard > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules posted > Done - WGLC for NACM document > Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document > Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH > May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and 6242 > May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience > Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis > Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH > Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience > Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC > > === end-of modified charter text === > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From lhotka@nic.cz Mon Apr 15 05:05:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB96921F937D for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:05:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qLCjLrbiF9Ym for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (nat-5.bravonet.cz [77.48.224.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B7F21F937A for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1ACE54019B; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:05:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06K9p0c3d6m8; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:04:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.201]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BD3C3540189; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:04:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , andy@yumaworks.com In-Reply-To: <20130414.175933.492843171.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20130414.175933.492843171.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.15.2+56~gf55b35b (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/23.3.50.1 (i386-apple-darwin9.8.0) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:04:49 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Netconf] more operational state X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 12:05:09 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > > Again, take the duplex leaf as an example. If the configured value is > 'auto', the operationally used value is certainly something else. > Another example is pre-provisioning of some hardware. If the hardware > is not there, the pre-configured values are not operationally used. I am leaning towards duplicating the config and operational value as two separate objects, because the latter is in fact a first-class entity and it can interact with the config value (and other management interfaces, protocols etc.) in various ways and quite often their datatype would also be different. This duplex parameter is one example, and the problem of zone indices in IP addresses could also be resolved quite nicely: the zone id would be allowed with operational address but not in manual address configuration. I think the amount of duplication would not be that large, and in fact it already happens in the routing module: static routes appear in configuration but they are also duplicated in routing table(s), with additional info and attributes. An important advantage of having separate config and operational objects is that it can be essentially done without any changes to YANG and any new NETCONF operations. The relationship between the two could be expressed simply in descriptions. Lada > > > /martin > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Mon Apr 15 07:37:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5107321F8E94 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:37:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FB_IOW=3.333, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUIRvJWsOMBU for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3753B21F8C55 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r3FEbqcT008383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:37:52 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r3FEbq4u025551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:37:52 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.37) by DEMUHTC004.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:37:52 +0200 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.229]) by DEMUHTC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:37:52 +0200 From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Priority of the topics in queue WAS:RE: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text Thread-Index: Ac455s3/2fQZdkqCRqSKcXR249fWOg== Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:37:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 3641 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1366036673-000077CC-F586FD55/0-0/0-0 Subject: [Netconf] Priority of the topics in queue WAS:RE: Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:37:58 -0000 Hi All, the co-chairs agree that Juergen has a point and the priorities should be d= iscussed. The co-chairs are mainly interested to finalize the TLS draft with the addi= tion the WG members proposed. As Bert raised, it is an issue to extend TLS for call-home and not doing th= e same for the mandatory SSH binding. Iow. to extend both transport bindings at once seems to be the best way to = go. This was the agreement of the Netconf session in IETF #86, which is now sub= ject to approve. As far as we know, there are no drafts for the other topics in the list, wh= ich would be ready for asking the WG to adopt as WG item. - For operational state, we had different proposals, which need to be align= ed and/or updated before we can ask for re-chartering. - Concerning get2, Andy was planning to do it after YANG-API is done and af= ter getting implementation experience. - For the REST API, Andy proposed to discuss it first in a BoF. - Mechanisms to comment out-config is new and includes requirements coming = from i2rs. Based on our agreement with the i2rs chairs drafts addressing i2= rs requirements need to be aligned with the discussion in i2rs. - As of today we did not get much input for alternate encodings. - Advancement of RFCs will/can be done once we get more input on the deploy= ment and implementation. That said we would like to hear what the WG thinks on the priority of diffe= rent topics in queue. Should we try to push one or the other topic specifically? Please comment on and indicate your priorities below: Priority Work item (1=3Dhigh) Call home for TLS Call home for SSH Operational state Improved retrieval (get2) Alternate encodings Conditional-enablement REST API to access NETCONF datastore(s) Advancement of RFCs Mehmet & Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university= .de] > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:10 PM > To: Andy Bierman > Cc: Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich); netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport= bindings - > New Charter text > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:41:11AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > wrote: > > > On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 08:35:14AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > > >> I must be thinking of draft-bjorklund-netmod-operational-00, > > >> which expired 5 days ago. > > >> > > > > > > An individual submission under a name picked by an individual. The > > > discussion of this I-D took place in the NETCONF WG meeting at the > > > last IETF: > > > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netconf/agenda?item=3Dagenda-86-netconf.html > > > > > > While it may make sense to merge NETCONF/NETMOD, I disagree with "man= y > > > NETMOD drafts specify YANG extensions that change NETCONF protocol > > > behavior". > > > > > > > I did not say merge -- I said coordinate the charters better. Big diff= erence. > > > > The existing charters are IMHO well coordinated - I do not know what > should have been done better in terms of separating protocol work from > data modeling work. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From andy@yumaworks.com Mon Apr 15 07:49:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B74021F93FB for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pa+1+Je5wK7e for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x234.google.com (mail-ie0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC15221F90D9 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id qd14so87940ieb.39 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=3ZzqnE6pjbwceCYbRtr4ru15wvJ+w0zvBbSDb0WpJ6o=; b=TQQLCi1rItTlBA1j/E4GhlTTUd+uPUkqO0HvREeBsUxxJGusMGUdVpttS2SPWHLJdt 0lJa+Volyl18mE5EPXl4OAMXPwvHA4DZbxbXPjBKwRZIAi2ajhqYI/vMhs275HRia3CE oF/FQ1CUowyxS3iTU4JvbZVevPyAqAi/RSdgsiDL09C+VMKRMaG9cUVf0P++TfduZBgZ CPvcUv1+I214ceTCPNQjmDJ6SgypA+qQM0EDZgijV/7aONKPEWjOHuA7me+zlk+CsY6L VXMhbDh54f6+dMYRFlrcV4pK6sIKieTyp0JF5pm3HhUsdwqzOIr+K64QBEOXfu9aLkHu eA7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.151.3 with SMTP id c3mr11992625icw.27.1366037361178; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <516BE412.4070700@ericsson.com> References: <516BE412.4070700@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 07:49:21 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Balazs Lengyel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQley0prGs8kgxxVHQeK/mZTc68KLlQwFX1vV+Tvv7fFlTJIviZMRnWEIbv4dNikQ+TbnHK6 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:49:24 -0000 On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:27 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > I agree with the need for call home. It is the highest priority at the > moment for Ericsson. Does this mean that somebody from Ericcson (you?) is going to author drafts and/or review drafts, and continue doing so until the work item is published as an RFC? When prioritizing work, I think it is important to identity resources, since "wanting X" and "willing to work on X" are not the same thing. Getting drafts started is easy in the IETF. Getting drafts finished is the hard part. > Balazs > Andy > On 2013-04-12 15:29, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >> >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> >> we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and >> developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment >> by the server. The session attendees supported the development of call home >> for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. >> >> For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on >> Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft >> agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session >> agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing >> list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. >> >> If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as >> planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to >> the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. >> >> Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the >> response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. >> >> Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. >> >> Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the >> charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. >> >> Bert & Mehmet >> >> >> === modified charter text === >> >> In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup >> will focus on following items: >> >> 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a >> server-initiated session establishment. >> >> 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., >> update >> RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated >> session establishment. >> >> 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and >> interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. >> The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing >> any reported errata. >> >> Goals and Milestones: >> Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis >> Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed >> Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted >> Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard >> Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed >> Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules >> posted >> Done - WGLC for NACM document >> Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document >> Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed >> Standard >> Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for >> consideration as Proposed Standard >> May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH >> May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and >> 6242 >> May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 >> implementation/deployment experience >> Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis >> Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH >> Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience >> Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed >> Standard >> Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed >> Standard >> Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment >> experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC >> >> === end-of modified charter text === >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > System Manager > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From lhotka@nic.cz Tue Apr 16 02:20:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1203821F9659 for ; 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Tue, 16 Apr 2013 11:19:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Ersue\, Mehmet \(NSN - DE\/Munich\)" , "netconf\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.15.2+56~gf55b35b (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/23.3.50.1 (i386-apple-darwin9.8.0) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 11:19:49 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Netconf] Priority of the topics in queue WAS:RE: Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 09:20:07 -0000 "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" writes: > Hi All, > > the co-chairs agree that Juergen has a point and the priorities should be discussed. > > The co-chairs are mainly interested to finalize the TLS draft with the addition the WG members proposed. > As Bert raised, it is an issue to extend TLS for call-home and not doing the same for the mandatory SSH binding. > Iow. to extend both transport bindings at once seems to be the best way to go. > > This was the agreement of the Netconf session in IETF #86, which is now subject to approve. > > As far as we know, there are no drafts for the other topics in the list, which would be ready for asking the WG to adopt as WG item. > > - For operational state, we had different proposals, which need to be aligned and/or updated before we can ask for re-chartering. > - Concerning get2, Andy was planning to do it after YANG-API is done and after getting implementation experience. > - For the REST API, Andy proposed to discuss it first in a BoF. > - Mechanisms to comment out-config is new and includes requirements coming from i2rs. Based on our agreement with the i2rs chairs drafts addressing i2rs requirements need to be aligned with the discussion in i2rs. > - As of today we did not get much input for alternate encodings. This input is draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-json-01, presented in NETMOD. BTW, it might really make sense to consider a merger of NETCONF & NETMOD. In my experience, external people are often confused as to which topic belongs where, and I don't see any benefits of having two groups - there is a significant overlap in terms of both topics and active participants. > - Advancement of RFCs will/can be done once we get more input on the deployment and implementation. > > > That said we would like to hear what the WG thinks on the priority of different topics in queue. > Should we try to push one or the other topic specifically? > > Please comment on and indicate your priorities below: Here is my list (ordered-by user;-): > > Priority Work item > (1=high) 1. REST API to access NETCONF datastore(s), 2. Alternate encodings, 3. Conditional-enablement, 4. Operational state, 5. Improved retrieval (get2), 6. Call home for TLS, 7. Call home for SSH, 8. Advancement of RFCs (unless it means NETCONF over TLS, which should certainly be finished first). Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From ietfc@btconnect.com Thu Apr 18 02:39:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58CE021F8E5F for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 02:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dq2qN5MWvJtM for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 02:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (am1ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [213.199.154.209]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35AF21F8D71 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 02:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail37-am1-R.bigfish.com (10.3.201.253) by AM1EHSOBE010.bigfish.com (10.3.204.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:46 +0000 Received: from mail37-am1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail37-am1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914EC3C00FD; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.254.197; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:DB3PRD0711HT001.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -20 X-BigFish: PS-20(zz9371I542I1432I1418Izz1f42h1fc6h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h5a9h668h839h947hd24hf0ah1177h1179h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah139eh13b6h1441h1504h1537h162dh1631h1758h17f1h184fh1898h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah304l1155h) Received: from mail37-am1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail37-am1 (MessageSwitch) id 1366277984718862_18917; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM1EHSMHS016.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.201.248]) by mail37-am1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD88B3A0073; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DB3PRD0711HT001.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.254.197) by AM1EHSMHS016.bigfish.com (10.3.207.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:44 +0000 Received: from DBXPRD0411HT002.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (157.56.253.165) by pod51017.outlook.com (10.255.183.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.293.5; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:42 +0000 Message-ID: <025301ce3c17$fd0b1780$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , References: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:34:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [157.56.253.165] X-FOPE-CRA-SourceIpAddress: 157.56.254.197 X-FOPE-CRA-DRYRUN: 1207119;1 X-FOPE-BFA-SENDER: ietfc@btconnect.com X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: netconf@ietf.org X-FOPE-BFA-RECEIVER: mehmet.ersue@nsn.com X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 09:39:49 -0000 I find this premature. The issue, as has come up many times before, on this and on other lists, is security. I think that the starting point should be a review of existing call home mechanisms, how they provide security and how appropriate they are for Netconf. Then we can look at whether or not an SSH or TLS based design is viable. Tom Petch p.s. My prejudice is dead against call home. I see it over and over again on a Windows (the commonest in the world by a big margin:-) workstation - i.e. server in the context of call home - which wants to update its software from websites such as Adobe and Microsoft ('Updates are available'). NO, I do not want the software trashed by who knows what! When I am sitting at the workstation, I expect to be able to stop it, but yesterday, I got outmanoeuvred by Microsoft:-( Oddly, I do trust the downloads to my set-top box, don't know why, perhaps because I have less to lose if that gets trashed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:29 PM Subject: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text > Dear NETCONF WG, > > we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment by the server. The session attendees supported the development of call home for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. > > For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. > > If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. > > Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. > > Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. > > Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. > > Bert & Mehmet > > > === modified charter text === > > In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup > will focus on following items: > > 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a > server-initiated session establishment. > > 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., update > RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated > session establishment. > > 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and > interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. > The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing > any reported errata. > > Goals and Milestones: > Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis > Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted > Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed Standard > Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules posted > Done - WGLC for NACM document > Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document > Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH > May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and 6242 > May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience > Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis > Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH > Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience > Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC > > === end-of modified charter text === > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From kwatsen@juniper.net Thu Apr 18 10:32:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E9E21F93D7 for ; 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Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:26:53 -0700 Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (216.32.181.185) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 10:36:45 -0700 Received: from mail175-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.241) by CH1EHSOBE009.bigfish.com (10.43.70.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:52 +0000 Received: from mail175-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail175-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B38FE6029E for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.245.197; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:CH1PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: -27 X-BigFish: PS-27(zzbb2dI98dI9371I542I1432I1418I4015Izz1f42h1fc6h1ee6h1de0h1fdah1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839h944he5bhf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h1ad9h1b0ah1155h) Received: from mail175-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail175-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1366306010494046_30563; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS041.bigfish.com (snatpool2.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.233]) by mail175-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7651F3E0049; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.245.197) by CH1EHSMHS041.bigfish.com (10.43.69.250) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:49 +0000 Received: from CH1PRD0511MB407.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.5.91]) by CH1PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.159.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0293.003; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:48 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: t.petch , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text Thread-Index: AQHOPFnncSFH22Ub0EOGKxNwA/y4bA== Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:26:47 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <025301ce3c17$fd0b1780$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.2.130206 x-originating-ip: [10.255.159.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <675B9172F08F1A4EBFCCC04418269DBF@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.245.197$btconnect.com%0%1%juniper.net%False%False%0$ X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%BTCONNECT.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%NSN.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:32:11 -0000 Tom, We have SPs and Fortune 500 customers that require a call-home mechanism, in order to manage devices deployed behind NAT gateways. These customers are already committed to using an EMS/NMS, call-home is merely a mechanism to let that happen in certain deployment scenarios. Thanks, Kent On 4/18/13 5:34 AM, "t.petch" wrote: >I find this premature. > >The issue, as has come up many times before, on this and on other lists, >is security. > >I think that the starting point should be a review of existing call home >mechanisms, how they provide security and how appropriate they are for >Netconf. Then we can look at whether or not an SSH or TLS based design >is viable. > >Tom Petch > > >p.s. My prejudice is dead against call home. I see it over and over >again on a Windows (the commonest in the world by a big margin:-) >workstation - i.e. server in the context of call home - which wants to >update its software from websites such as Adobe and Microsoft ('Updates >are available'). NO, I do not want the software trashed by who knows >what! When I am sitting at the workstation, I expect to be able to stop >it, but yesterday, I got outmanoeuvred by Microsoft:-( > >Oddly, I do trust the downloads to my set-top box, don't know why, >perhaps because I have less to lose if that gets trashed. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:29 PM >Subject: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport >bindings - New Charter text > > >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> >> we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and >developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session >establishment by the server. The session attendees supported the >development of call home for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. >> >> For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on >Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis >draft agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the >session agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on >the mailing list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the >charter. >> >> If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as >planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition >to the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG >approval. >> >> Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on >the response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. >> >> Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. >> >> Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the >charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. >> >> Bert & Mehmet >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D modified charter text =3D=3D=3D >> >> In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the >workgroup >> will focus on following items: >> >> 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a >> server-initiated session establishment. >> >> 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., >update >> RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a >server-initiated >> session establishment. >> >> 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and >> interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status >report. >> The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and >addressing >> any reported errata. >> >> Goals and Milestones: >> Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis >> Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed >Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted >> Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard >> Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed >Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules >posted >> Done - WGLC for NACM document >> Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document >> Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG >for consideration as Proposed Standard >> May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH >> May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and >6242 >> May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 >implementation/deployment experience >> Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis >> Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH >> Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience >> Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment >experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC >> >> =3D=3D=3D end-of modified charter text =3D=3D=3D >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Netconf mailing list >Netconf@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Fri Apr 19 03:27:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3B621F9404 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:27:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1OGjE7sN2MXI for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8685621F9408 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f316d0000028db-2b-51711c039c0a Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FE.81.10459.30C11715; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 12:27:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [159.107.197.4] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.279.1; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 12:27:15 +0200 Message-ID: <51711C02.30507@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 12:27:14 +0200 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <516BE412.4070700@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3VpdZpjDQ4FqTlMWDI7PYLT7cucJi MXXTbVYHZo8lS34yefxcf5Xdo6X/IksAcxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXRvOLw6wFW7Qrth6/wdrA eFyxi5GTQ0LARGLlpYNMELaYxIV769lAbCGBU4wS7/fzdzFyAdmrGSWmHuoDK+IV0JT4vfEf C4jNIqAqcXfaOzCbTcBIYmr/eTBbVCBK4t/b3YwQ9YISJ2c+AYuLANVfmDuRGcRmFkiTeLf2 LthMYYF0iaPT1jFDLN7EKPFjpzeIzSkQKLF8wRF2iHpbiQtzrrNA2PIS29/OgarXkHh44S/r BEbBWUjWzULSMgtJywJG5lWM7LmJmTnp5YabGIFhenDLb90djKfOiRxilOZgURLnDXO9ECAk kJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBUShNev2n3QXz1Nd9cLw4c2/35aNFTRtqRP/7ZvHw TlT1lYn4q83QZL+Ly1rc18Q9PTBv/T3ZtxGtURONZ/hv9v67QNDA/uBrWYUzndWzLIIm9Mbb d994cDzzykFmpQP5htcU7tlYH7tya/W2/WIGr88F/GtxfLKJufH3d9brxYYsc6W0Ge10lViK MxINtZiLihMB4Zr7iSECAAA= Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:27:30 -0000 Hello , In my view call-home will happen, even if it has security problems. The real question is just whether IETF will provide a solution, or whether every interested vendor makes his own. regards Balazs On 2013-04-15 16:49, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:27 AM, Balazs Lengyel > wrote: >> I agree with the need for call home. It is the highest priority at the >> moment for Ericsson. > Does this mean that somebody from Ericcson (you?) is going to author > drafts and/or review drafts, and continue doing so until the work item > is published as an RFC? > When prioritizing work, I think it is important to identity resources, > since "wanting X" and "willing to work on X" are not the same thing. > Getting drafts started is easy in the IETF. Getting drafts finished > is the hard part. [BALAZS]: I would love to work on it, but I am not able to. So I am just hoping someone will do it. (I agree with your point.) > > >> Balazs >> > Andy > >> On 2013-04-12 15:29, Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: >>> Dear NETCONF WG, >>> >>> we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and >>> developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session establishment >>> by the server. The session attendees supported the development of call home >>> for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. >>> >>> For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on >>> Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis draft >>> agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the session >>> agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on the mailing >>> list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the charter. >>> >>> If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as >>> planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition to >>> the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG approval. >>> >>> Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on the >>> response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. >>> >>> Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. >>> >>> Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the >>> charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. >>> >>> Bert & Mehmet >>> >>> >>> === modified charter text === >>> >>> In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the workgroup >>> will focus on following items: >>> >>> 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a >>> server-initiated session establishment. >>> >>> 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., >>> update >>> RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a server-initiated >>> session establishment. >>> >>> 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and >>> interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status report. >>> The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and addressing >>> any reported errata. >>> >>> Goals and Milestones: >>> Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis >>> Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed >>> Standard >>> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted >>> Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard >>> Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed >>> Standard >>> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules >>> posted >>> Done - WGLC for NACM document >>> Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document >>> Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as Proposed >>> Standard >>> Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG for >>> consideration as Proposed Standard >>> May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH >>> May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and >>> 6242 >>> May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 >>> implementation/deployment experience >>> Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis >>> Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH >>> Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience >>> Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed >>> Standard >>> Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed >>> Standard >>> Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment >>> experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC >>> >>> === end-of modified charter text === >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >> -- >> Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. >> System Manager >> ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 >> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. System Manager ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From calle@tail-f.com Fri Apr 19 09:19:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CEEE21F89A5 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JnTHMwB4DkiN for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-2007.d.ipeer.se [213.180.74.102]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A71321F9600 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [67.174.223.110]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 13E041200050; Fri, 19 Apr 2013 18:19:49 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) From: Carl Moberg In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 09:19:48 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 16:19:55 -0000 Just to add to this. We need this for scalable discovery of new = physical and virtual devices as they arrive on the network. The current = state of the art is ping sweeps and highly proprietary probing of = neighbour states. On Apr 18, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > Tom, >=20 > We have SPs and Fortune 500 customers that require a call-home = mechanism, > in order to manage devices deployed behind NAT gateways. These = customers > are already committed to using an EMS/NMS, call-home is merely a = mechanism > to let that happen in certain deployment scenarios. >=20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 4/18/13 5:34 AM, "t.petch" wrote: >=20 >> I find this premature. >>=20 >> The issue, as has come up many times before, on this and on other = lists, >> is security. >>=20 >> I think that the starting point should be a review of existing call = home >> mechanisms, how they provide security and how appropriate they are = for >> Netconf. Then we can look at whether or not an SSH or TLS based = design >> is viable. >>=20 >> Tom Petch >>=20 >>=20 >> p.s. My prejudice is dead against call home. I see it over and over >> again on a Windows (the commonest in the world by a big margin:-) >> workstation - i.e. server in the context of call home - which wants = to >> update its software from websites such as Adobe and Microsoft = ('Updates >> are available'). NO, I do not want the software trashed by who knows >> what! When I am sitting at the workstation, I expect to be able to = stop >> it, but yesterday, I got outmanoeuvred by Microsoft:-( >>=20 >> Oddly, I do trust the downloads to my set-top box, don't know why, >> perhaps because I have less to lose if that gets trashed. >>=20 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:29 PM >> Subject: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport >> bindings - New Charter text >>=20 >>=20 >>> Dear NETCONF WG, >>>=20 >>> we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and >> developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session >> establishment by the server. The session attendees supported the >> development of call home for both, the SSH and TLS transport = bindings. >>>=20 >>> For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on >> Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the = rfc5539bis >> draft agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the >> session agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on >> the mailing list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the >> charter. >>>=20 >>> If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home = as >> planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following = addition >> to the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG >> approval. >>>=20 >>> Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on >> the response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. >>>=20 >>> Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. >>>=20 >>> Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the >> charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. >>>=20 >>> Bert & Mehmet >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D modified charter text =3D=3D=3D >>>=20 >>> In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the >> workgroup >>> will focus on following items: >>>=20 >>> 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing = a >>> server-initiated session establishment. >>>=20 >>> 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., >> update >>> RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a >> server-initiated >>> session establishment. >>>=20 >>> 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and >>> interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status >> report. >>> The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and >> addressing >>> any reported errata. >>>=20 >>> Goals and Milestones: >>> Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis >>> Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed >> Standard >>> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted >>> Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed = Standard >>> Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed >> Standard >>> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules >> posted >>> Done - WGLC for NACM document >>> Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document >>> Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as >> Proposed Standard >>> Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG >> for consideration as Proposed Standard >>> May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH >>> May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 = and >> 6242 >>> May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 >> implementation/deployment experience >>> Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis >>> Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH >>> Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment = experience >>> Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as >> Proposed Standard >>> Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as >> Proposed Standard >>> Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment >> experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC >>>=20 >>> =3D=3D=3D end-of modified charter text =3D=3D=3D >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Carl Moberg twitter: @cmoberg http://www.tail-f.com/ From ietfc@btconnect.com Fri Apr 19 10:08:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A76821F95EF for ; 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Fri, 19 Apr 2013 17:08:01 +0000 Message-ID: <014a01ce3d1f$c74213c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: Kent Watsen , "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" , References: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 18:03:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [157.56.248.133] X-FOPE-CRA-Verdict: 157.56.249.213$juniper.net%12218%4%btconnect.com%False%False%0$ X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Subject: Re: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport bindings - New Charter text X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 17:08:10 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Watsen" To: "t.petch" ; "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" ; Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:26 PM Tom, We have SPs and Fortune 500 customers that require a call-home mechanism, in order to manage devices deployed behind NAT gateways. These customers are already committed to using an EMS/NMS, call-home is merely a mechanism to let that happen in certain deployment scenarios. Yes, they are probably the same companies who regard NAT as adequate security:-) We have a responsibility to provide technology that does not do harm. Call home without adequate security may not meet that so I still say that a review of security, across the many existing instances of call home, is the starting point, not a design. Tom Petch Thanks, Kent On 4/18/13 5:34 AM, "t.petch" wrote: >I find this premature. > >The issue, as has come up many times before, on this and on other lists, >is security. > >I think that the starting point should be a review of existing call home >mechanisms, how they provide security and how appropriate they are for >Netconf. Then we can look at whether or not an SSH or TLS based design >is viable. > >Tom Petch > > >p.s. My prejudice is dead against call home. I see it over and over >again on a Windows (the commonest in the world by a big margin:-) >workstation - i.e. server in the context of call home - which wants to >update its software from websites such as Adobe and Microsoft ('Updates >are available'). NO, I do not want the software trashed by who knows >what! When I am sitting at the workstation, I expect to be able to stop >it, but yesterday, I got outmanoeuvred by Microsoft:-( > >Oddly, I do trust the downloads to my set-top box, don't know why, >perhaps because I have less to lose if that gets trashed. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" >To: >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 2:29 PM >Subject: [Netconf] Developing Call-Home for the SSH and TLS transport >bindings - New Charter text > > >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> >> we discussed in the IETF #86 Netconf session on resurrecting and >developing the call home mechanism, i.e. initiation of session >establishment by the server. The session attendees supported the >development of call home for both, the SSH and TLS transport bindings. >> >> For the SSH binding, Kent Watsen volunteered to update his draft on >Reverse SSH. Concerning the TLS binding, the authors of the rfc5539bis >draft agreed to add the necessary text for call home. Based on the >session agreement, the co-chairs promised to verify the WG support on >the mailing list and add call-home for the ssh and tls drafts to the >charter. >> >> If there are no substantial arguments against developing call home as >planned by April 26, 2013 EOB, the co-chairs will add following addition >to the charter and provide our AD to review and initiate the IESG >approval. >> >> Whether point 3. on the list below remains in the charter depends on >the response we get to the call on RFC advancement until May 1st. >> >> Please send your comments to the Netconf maillist by April 26, 2013. >> >> Draft authors: Please confirm or comment the deadlines listed in the >charter text below with a short note to the co-chairs. >> >> Bert & Mehmet >> >> >> === modified charter text === >> >> In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the >workgroup >> will focus on following items: >> >> 1. Add call home mechanism for the mandatory SSH binding providing a >> server-initiated session establishment. >> >> 2. Advance NETCONF over TLS to be in-line with NETCONF 1.1 (i.e., >update >> RFC 5539) and add the call home mechanism to provide a >server-initiated >> session establishment. >> >> 3. Based on the implementation, deployment experience and >> interoperability testing, the WG will produce a NETCONF status >report. >> The result may be clarifications for RFC6241 and RFC6242 and >addressing >> any reported errata. >> >> Goals and Milestones: >> Done - WG Last Call on rfc4741bis >> Done - Send with-defaults to IESG for consideration as Proposed >Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NACM posted >> Done - rfc4741bis to IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard >> Done - Send rfc4742bis to IESG for consideration as proposed >Standard >> Done - first WG draft (rev 00) on NETCONF specific YANG modules >posted >> Done - WGLC for NACM document >> Done - WGLC for NETCONF specific notifications document >> Done - submit NACM document to IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Done - submit NETCONF specific notifications document to IESG >for consideration as Proposed Standard >> May 2013 - Submit initial WG document on Reverse SSH >> May 2013 - Collect Implementation/Deployment reports for RFC6241 and >6242 >> May 2013 - IETF wiki page and/or initial I-D for RFC6241/6242 >implementation/deployment experience >> Jun 2013 - WGLC for rfc5539bis >> Jul 2013 - WGLC for Reverse SSH >> Jul 2013 - WGLC on RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment experience >> Jul 2013 - submit rfc5539bis to AD/IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Aug 2013 - submit SSH binding to AD/IESG for consideration as >Proposed Standard >> Aug 2013 - Possibly submit RFC6241/6242 implementation/deployment >experience doc to IESG for publication as Informational RFC >> >> === end-of modified charter text === >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Netconf mailing list >Netconf@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From stone@openclovis.com Fri Apr 26 14:50:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1940621F9CF6 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YjXo+3p6KTl0 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vb0-x231.google.com (mail-vb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B3B21F9CF5 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 12so575993vbf.36 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=C+vpJgJQKZRs2G3jCeeekHrKsNlv86VzutuflW2RsLw=; b=GoDWxZ5/ryOCmUyFHswRDHHYZbA1KI/U3iasbA2c+vQujqFtkb0xfo7G/SkKNpJRZ7 SRJ7ZQYue2l/DejTvna0EucaCQF71qlf/wr/OE099ZfSOtGcqeGG0pMRR5AA+NtBT2nZ Pw0Y39sXyp6c+CqDhRN9Si1iJyyWWiDMQovZeXTbfctWIYnv7v6FNkj0JYVkfVbxMNo/ 7rBXRNHhvQcgr3kNCOqwArLzqJl5zNfjZ+zM13zcTji9DilbGnTgKkWNtQVTuoELs1EP fF8gU5NbtAadFp9pvPhBY1ZRhMLaFy5T8rYr/y0vERrow9f7j6XnIW/freJGEvK2DRHK +Zkg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.57.197 with SMTP id d5mr14344987vch.47.1367013040551; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.167.134 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:50:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andrew Stone To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2ce7cafbb6304db4a8627 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlyiBGG0hmudcrWjG+2KpsnxVIGpzyXB5oDppZNjVi0135OB9IZBng0WglfHtvE9CCLk+kb Subject: [Netconf] Yuma? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 21:50:42 -0000 --001a11c2ce7cafbb6304db4a8627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-source into Yuma Works. But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a git repository https://github.com/openclovis/openyuma which contains the 2.2.5 release. Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on this project!! and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do understand :-). Best, Andy Stone Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc. --001a11c2ce7cafbb6304db4a8627 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-s= ource into Yuma Works. =A0But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a gi= t repository=A0https://g= ithub.com/openclovis/openyuma=A0which contains the 2.2.5 release.

Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on = this project!! and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do un= derstand :-).

Best,
Andy Sto= ne
Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc.
--001a11c2ce7cafbb6304db4a8627-- From andy@yumaworks.com Fri Apr 26 15:49:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB51E21F9A10 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.444 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.533, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbxQUVYCrHOR for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x231.google.com (mail-ia0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C37921F9A05 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f177.google.com with SMTP id y26so3993154iab.8 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=WCcuIbbT7FCzJe6ZGe1IVudl34uvQtk5MyXs5YfoD/c=; b=a4JQ8RBYO4p3uj2LuGkxkBl1tYDVaLmbanC8GgQJ9ZnRbLk8WqLWgjQHa2H4eHzmY4 rnM9HwZ4FRo2yW5kTjV8QvO2RD0sY779FUygGPmComg3/08xmWUghMQqOSziuPMtInox T6QMZagV+cfyDG/ALpgcQhqo6kcgrqWi9UHifoNdPGBD4L0YTNLuWjYYlMb90nIeMiqT u2qQkUGCgD776YNZj8XUYhGiLZQSG/LFzIyg04vFhGoHvCoBGjleFiScCeye72bUEwoh jWkb4V2iTUIWIGbb9hTjr6G4Fbe3+PPkW+7uU6kbXwnF+1oZ3i7b7kFEx/St8Y3iYrsW S2qQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.29.82 with SMTP id i18mr2983048igh.86.1367016547570; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.125.202 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:49:07 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Andrew Stone Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6c628b86a9b04db4b57e5 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkosRSA4LzSbv5Y8RL8GNkZaBNuJFOiSXGZH8uDGI3L9de6GxnqzdOaGuOcSrAnLqO61e9O Cc: Netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yuma? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 22:49:08 -0000 --047d7bd6c628b86a9b04db4b57e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Andrew Stone wrote: > Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-source into Yuma > Works. But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a git repository > https://github.com/openclovis/openyuma which contains the 2.2.5 release. > > Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on this project!! > and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do understand :-). > > I assume you are following the copyright correctly. Please remove YumaWorks support information from the documentation and replace it with your support contact information. > Best, > Andy Stone > Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc. > > Andy --047d7bd6c628b86a9b04db4b57e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Andrew = Stone <stone@openclovis.com> wrote:
Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-s= ource into Yuma Works. =A0But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a gi= t repository=A0https://github.com/openclovis/openyuma=A0which contains the 2.= 2.5 release.

Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on = this project!! and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do un= derstand :-).


I assume you are following the copyright correctly.
Please remove= YumaWorks support information from the documentation
and replace= it with your support contact information.

=A0
Best,
=
Andy Stone
Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc.


Andy
=A0
--047d7bd6c628b86a9b04db4b57e5-- From andy@yumaworks.com Sat Apr 27 11:42:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C791221F98FE for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.077 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.077 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.899, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iwgnfhuWmNjG for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-f180.google.com (mail-lb0-f180.google.com [209.85.217.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BE521F98D4 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id t11so4665668lbi.11 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=NDxO7toGTPh7eias/AwzlKYC+68PixriNQ4HBiUyfeQ=; b=cdEAdjQ0L2RzXUQGO3JkZAoOdAOgGBT1eloTHBk7zBbfHvRfa4mHjLkvKP8GQvFttw EKrjVxSHeNVjgoUFTSrxPdk1nvVaroxUQiVtikAOkQxljLSRfhS/1EBiHv/El0ri6ccQ WifZsM/0qpcYzGt/pBJOsQF83/nJNmnj/rJpMK99++9XFtnTLxyLI0FamKML4ik/Yflb KlGCNRoGgjBeaOr5GbI2ROQy21XjlvQ/B1Ijsb0fG59peYq4mnrNVGDvex8AYym97uQF ugzUD9NarhWfadqFsi2+GsjaN6Ajc9qDZYaAt14Gs+vdLzAWB5UvRgolA4EFqliEpECd O+YA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.88.194 with SMTP id bi2mr13205282lbb.111.1367088121674; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.155.68 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Andrew Stone Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c36944de8d1104db5c0189 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlLOrjP4v4vy1G6agpt1psgjqi5dkSVHCHkR9TtkmpHQvYtYkT6CsSJDLZeqAlchPJjgUCo Cc: Netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yuma? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 18:42:04 -0000 --001a11c36944de8d1104db5c0189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, To be clear, we did not take the Yuma open-source private. We forked YumaPro from Yuma about 18 months ago and nobody has really worked on Yuma since. thanks, Andy On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Andrew Stone wrote: > Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-source into Yuma > Works. But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a git repository > https://github.com/openclovis/openyuma which contains the 2.2.5 release. > > Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on this project!! > and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do understand :-). > > Best, > Andy Stone > Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > --001a11c36944de8d1104db5c0189 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

To be clear, we did not take the Yuma open-source pr= ivate.
We forked YumaPro from Yuma about 18 months ago
= and nobody has really worked on Yuma since.

thanks= ,
Andy


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013= at 2:50 PM, Andrew Stone <stone@openclovis.com> wrote:
Yuma seems to have disappeared... I think it went closed-s= ource into Yuma Works. =A0But since it is BSD licensed, I have created a gi= t repository=A0https://github.com/openclovis/openyuma=A0which contains the 2.= 2.5 release.

Andy Bierman, I want to thank for your tremendous effort on = this project!! and I'm sorry to see you go closed source... but I do un= derstand :-).

Best,
Andy Stone
Software Architect, OpenClovis, Inc.

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


--001a11c36944de8d1104db5c0189-- From johnsonhammond1@hushmail.com Sat Apr 27 15:47:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1EC21F98B7 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 15:47:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.469 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.469 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id geZrHi+DpGAo for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 15:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp10.hushmail.com (smtp10a.hushmail.com [65.39.178.239]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B8221F9922 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 15:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp10.hushmail.com (smtp10a.hushmail.com [65.39.178.239]) by smtp10.hushmail.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A1F361B5337 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 17:34:48 +0000 (UTC) X-hush-relay-time: 213 X-hush-relay-id: b1bd903faba185ee07e5a0ed3a1fde37 Received: from smtp.hushmail.com (w5.hushmail.com [65.39.178.80]) by smtp10.hushmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 17:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.hushmail.com (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6D4D2E6739; Sat, 27 Apr 2013 17:34:48 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 13:34:48 -0400 To: netconf@ietf.org From: johnsonhammond1@hushmail.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20130427173448.6D4D2E6739@smtp.hushmail.com> Subject: [Netconf] Biggest Fake Conference in Computer Science X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 22:47:31 -0000 Biggest Fake Conference in Computer Science We are researchers from different parts of the world and conducted a study on the world’s biggest bogus computer science conference WORLDCOMP ( http://sites.google.com/site/worlddump1 ) organized by Prof. Hamid Arabnia from University of Georgia, USA. We submitted a fake paper to WORLDCOMP 2011 and again (the same paper with a modified title) to WORLDCOMP 2012. This paper had numerous fundamental mistakes. Sample statements from that paper include: (1). Binary logic is fuzzy logic and vice versa (2). Pascal developed fuzzy logic (3). Object oriented languages do not exhibit any polymorphism or inheritance (4). TCP and IP are synonyms and are part of OSI model (5). Distributed systems deal with only one computer (6). Laptop is an example for a super computer (7). Operating system is an example for computer hardware Also, our paper did not express any conceptual meaning. However, it was accepted both the times without any modifications (and without any reviews) and we were invited to submit the final paper and a payment of $500+ fee to present the paper. We decided to use the fee for better purposes than making Prof. Hamid Arabnia (Chairman of WORLDCOMP) rich. After that, we received few reminders from WORLDCOMP to pay the fee but we never responded. We MUST say that you should look at the above website if you have any thoughts to submit a paper to WORLDCOMP. DBLP and other indexing agencies have stopped indexing WORLDCOMP’s proceedings since 2011 due to its fakeness. See http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/conf/icai/index.html for of one of the conferences of WORLDCOMP and notice that there is no listing after 2010. See Section 2 of http://sites.google.com/site/dumpconf for comments from well-known researchers about WORLDCOMP. The status of your WORLDCOMP papers can be changed from scientific to other (i.e., junk or non-technical) at any time. Better not to have a paper than having it in WORLDCOMP and spoil the resume and peace of mind forever! Our study revealed that WORLDCOMP is a money making business, using University of Georgia mask, for Prof. Hamid Arabnia. He is throwing out a small chunk of that money (around 20 dollars per paper published in WORLDCOMP’s proceedings) to his puppet (Mr. Ashu Solo or A.M.G. Solo) who publicizes WORLDCOMP and also defends it at various forums, using fake/anonymous names. The puppet uses fake names and defames other conferences to divert traffic to WORLDCOMP. He also makes anonymous phone calls and tries to threaten the critiques of WORLDCOMP (See Item 7 of Section 5 of above website). That is, the puppet does all his best to get a maximum number of papers published at WORLDCOMP to get more money into his (and Prof. Hamid Arabnia’s) pockets. Monte Carlo Resort (the venue of WORLDCOMP for more than 10 years, until 2012) has refused to provide the venue for WORLDCOMP’13 because of the fears of their image being tarnished due to WORLDCOMP’s fraudulent activities. That is why WORLDCOMP’13 is taking place at a different resort. WORLDCOMP will not be held after 2013. The draft paper submission deadline is over but still there are no committee members, no reviewers, and there is no conference Chairman. The only contact details available on WORLDCOMP’s website is just an email address! Let us make a direct request to Prof. Hamid arabnia: publish all reviews for all the papers (after blocking identifiable details) since 2000 conference. Reveal the names and affiliations of all the reviewers (for each year) and how many papers each reviewer had reviewed on average. We also request him to look at the Open Challenge (Section 6) at https://sites.google.com/site/moneycomp1 Sorry for posting to multiple lists. Spreading the word is the only way to stop this bogus conference. Please forward this message to other mailing lists and people. We are shocked with Prof. Hamid Arabnia and his puppet’s activities http://worldcomp-fake-bogus.blogspot.com Search Google using the keyword worldcomp fake for additional links.