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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E773812EB53 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 02:20:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rddSHcPgEaz8 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 02:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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Bjorklund Cc: Kent Watsen , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114429962d55ac0550e28b04" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:20:20 -0000 --001a114429962d55ac0550e28b04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > I get that. This can easily be an augment. IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module library. There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > /martin > Andy > > > > > container datastores { > > config false; > > description > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; > > leaf-list datastore { > > type identityref { > > base ds:datastore; > > } > > description > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > } > > } > > > > > > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG > module > > library. > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. > > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-state/datastores > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is "this > > server"? > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > accessible > > in all protocols? > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > > > > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > > > IETF repository. > > > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > Revision: 00 > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > Pages: 15 > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server > (e.g., > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > > > this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > submission > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > --001a114429962d55ac0550e28b04 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund &l= t;mbj@tail-f.com>= ; wrote:
Hi,

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC.

The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is
the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis.
This allows the server to inform the client which modules are
implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This addition has been
discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent
is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01).




/martin


Andy
= =C2=A0

>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies which datastores ar= e supported by this server.";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identityref {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A datastore supported b= y this server.";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>
>
>
> I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG mo= dule
> library.
> It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree.
>
> IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores.
>
> One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-state/datastor= es
> since that's where its been for 7 years.
>
> Also the text says "supported by this server".=C2=A0 What pr= otocol is "this
> server"?
> What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are access= ible
> in all protocols?
>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to<= br> > > support the revised-datastores draft.
> >
> > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this<= br> > > draft as a WG item?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> >
> >
> > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt=
> > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the<= br> > > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netcon= f-rfc7895bis
> > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
> > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
> > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
> > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netcon= f-
> > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > rfc7895bis/
> > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > rfc7895bis-00
> > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.= org/
> > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes a YANG library that provides= information
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modules used by a network managem= ent server (e.g.,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).= =C2=A0 Simple caching
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize= retrieval of
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=
> > submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netconf mailing list
> > Netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ne= tconf
> >

--001a114429962d55ac0550e28b04-- From nobody Thu Jun 1 03:04:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC4512EB5A for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 03:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zOfquzyf33Cf for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 03:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F51A1293DF for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 03:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.40]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1204C1AE0141; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 12:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 12:04:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: kwatsen@juniper.net, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 10:04:27 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > > > I get that. > This can easily be an augment. If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are available in all datastores. > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module library. But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. /martin > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > container datastores { > > > config false; > > > description > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > type identityref { > > > base ds:datastore; > > > } > > > description > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > } > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG > > module > > > library. > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. > > > > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-state/datastores > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is "this > > > server"? > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > > accessible > > > in all protocols? > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > > > > IETF repository. > > > > > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server > > (e.g., > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > > > > this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > > submission > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > From nobody Thu Jun 1 08:01:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CE312EBBA for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:01:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CLc5C-r3ppry for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 254C21293F3 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 123so4976786wmg.1 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=gDJIehLCY7ykwAaKp2wqXZDvB2pMzsQkp3sKJko4mTk=; b=g03TNdHA1hhtkVXE5Z4bEukVboZxEZPdl4cT0JHHNQE77p8A2V4hv/SXF7PESrGbH4 l+KacooE1sVUyV53nFFWbQ2G0CL3XF3hFy+SbzOIrED5oRLzE59X8koaQ6J1tKDgsSXd mVj1urYumxz7FShixgfStx4/BlyBV8UlteM6vlY7W8oKbMuKOsQZVyXKFghAhnEEPZNF +VF14HEzhH05wk1fDKB5GAX8Z+L/kBNoiIACou7AMlNTCE72whvLEGr9OVUEfRAvBdeN CzMu45w/lMVcWdCPX04nM8675EXIwG3t5ZahZCSh03SOOWDxoCrpQqf5Bhah/IjvNr62 TEQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gDJIehLCY7ykwAaKp2wqXZDvB2pMzsQkp3sKJko4mTk=; b=qon9w3+lhxJVjSF1ZhPrfKkE548v49MR9t3jPvnXdKiA1adi5jU01x5sV3X3ayiFjv Z/2wppsNaDKqHtam8ruIO9lcormn/d6jpXHOup9edMG2aT5mFXpvzvzUT42L6g7F/ZJ9 ggFhiOvP282aHlX7mCuTVa5eMUSugi1WEP5SVokbH8aKiyGjPHbF6Aa4/lOn3axHCpXo R3ZCUkPXnFyiL3tsetXznceOjzwbfrRB7C+jVJCLJ/h32ZSNtmH1e4p5wI/rDk88TvSD FYMyM6j3rWslBItuv/zp8hiBuOFkZkOqeTowgMeCgZ9hf1oAhmcQm15rqEPTEbOO24kL Nl5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDJiW6xLvJdDsghOgcY/OvO0RN78vZeXOOIj4riAztbDpa0GHTQ 4cL6L+/tzPVP4MKV9Sduti55+3jiHtk6 X-Received: by 10.223.173.38 with SMTP id p35mr1874442wrc.88.1496329276475; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 08:01:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:01:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: Kent Watsen , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d6fdf03a0550e74e87" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 15:01:21 -0000 --f403045cf3d6fdf03a0550e74e87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library > > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > > > > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is > > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent > > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > > > > > > I get that. > > This can easily be an augment. > > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > available in all datastores. > > What does this even mean? The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. The client MUST understand both of them, > > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > library. > > But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this node will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datastores are irrelevant. The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. The datastore info is not conformance data. > > /martin > > Andy > > > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. > > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > container datastores { > > > > config false; > > > > description > > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; > > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > > type identityref { > > > > base ds:datastore; > > > > } > > > > description > > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > > } > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG > > > module > > > > library. > > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > > > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something > > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. > > > > > > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > /netconf-state/datastores > > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > > > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is > "this > > > > server"? > > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > > > accessible > > > > in all protocols? > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > > > > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > > > > > IETF repository. > > > > > > > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server > > > (e.g., > > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple > caching > > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval > of > > > > > this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > > > submission > > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > > --f403045cf3d6fdf03a0550e74e87 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <= mbj@tail-f.com><= /span> wrote:
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaw= orks.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module= Library
> > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC.=
> >
> > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library,= is
> > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis.=
> > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are
> > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This addition has = been
> > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most re= cent
> > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01).<= br> > >
> >
> I get that.
> This can easily be an augment.

If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't
understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are
available in all datastores.



What does this even mea= n?
The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastor= es.
The client MUST understand both of them,

=
=C2=A0
> IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module lib= rary.

But YANG library lists the models a server implements.=C2=A0 It has
implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the
server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true.=C2=A0 So adding t= his crucial
piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo.


But RD is optional to implement. Addin= g the leaf-list by augment
does not change anything. This is not = a mandatory node.
It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-el= ements 1, but this node
will be empty for some modules (like ietf= -yang-types) where datastores
are irrelevant.

The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info.
The= datastore info is not conformance data.

=C2=A0

/martin


Andy
=C2=A0

> There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores.=
> That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores.
>

So why isn't ietf-datastores t= he correct module for datastore info?
=C2=A0
>
>
> >
> > /martin
> >
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies which dat= astores are supported by this server.";
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identityref {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;<= br> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A datastore s= upported by this server.";
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to t= he YANG
> > module
> > > library.
> > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > >
> > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that so= mething
> > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datas= tores.
> > >
> > > One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-stat= e/datastores
> > > since that's where its been for 7 years.
> > >
> > > Also the text says "supported by this server".=C2= =A0 What protocol is "this
> > > server"?
> > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores = are
> > accessible
> > > in all protocols?
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG L= ibrary to
> > > > support the revised-datastores draft.
> > > >
> > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to a= dopt this
> > > > draft as a WG item?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Kent
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> > > >
> > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895= bis-00.txt
> > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and post= ed to the
> > > > IETF repository.
> > > >
> > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmd= sdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Li= brary
> > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
> > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Sub= mission
> > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
> > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ht= tps://www.ietf.org/internet-
> > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-<= /a>
> > > > rfc7895bis/
> > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > rfc7895bis-00
> > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/
> > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Abstract:
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes a YANG library tha= t provides information
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modules used by a netwo= rk management server
> > (e.g.,
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF)= server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided to allow clients t= o minimize retrieval of
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from t= he time of
> > > > submission
> > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.= ietf.org.
> > > >
> > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/netconf
> > > >
> >

--f403045cf3d6fdf03a0550e74e87-- From nobody Thu Jun 1 09:16:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2DB1286D6 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:16:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ib-fPjEgi6Hl for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08A6D126B71 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id b84so164889003wmh.0 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=D3PQA8NeN+p2+gb3P+7nmK9awm6VVTjqfS4LDiApTKk=; b=XgT5fS6w00LOLTW2kgYY/B8OA5OLJgXf9Xrm5jlrM2IGj0UrBHANOqe9G7ArlMAsvt +qjgHLa50LwPAtvZ7k/MY7vC+QU6nvziTFKfHNHd791A3Ij3RUDPpeTFUE+kdZ5h2uU+ wXuiFJwnAICyAu1i/q4TU3jYJ1M414leJqWaYsUfbs1zjvgCXMtX7Lqrk+3WBj5X0bvp MgTB2pSovtGoZsYT0Xd7B7YSxUoCYtEF3SIvyrXFtmdtIN/X66rM0gXCnb82p28kTLOG Lq5Nav3CSGD/JHVSsgPUNvHcUnS+YRKf2sC7kmjPSvL4UVM/DNHfD/Upbi6j/r3UqDjv xXLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=D3PQA8NeN+p2+gb3P+7nmK9awm6VVTjqfS4LDiApTKk=; b=B42aXepBmU46PL6FqaHI1ejzcAu+TKJLfvoZSB5JMZyenCCrOBBwthw9OKO4QiRxnJ toOj5Kp7prDmuVmQByU9GN5+FnmHQDroBZyVqrXwDw2jw42iMNnqnaL4YiXt6wUblN5F q8u5lGNXjfQ3IEggCENdxhEcUsYildSmSNhXp56b60fT3KOjjzpfk7ShOpiLf1Y7V8jV /BpWsC4idM1RNrJgoEdL64/+0QWHEaR5R6cGMnma0L/I+VS68jQKN/4p5cHX4+6XQKTe GFAIMzpeYzqhR77bfYc8+lAb9PO3iq6ScamC+HceAYfzp6/RUEfeulfQbGeUlSejFwxj AKbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBm6XBR2TMMgmN9ZxSjVT+VuOimJBAQYylm01Xy9WqF3C20Txi3 Jw49fAMNXUTJZMDtDp5rcpyxgELSoYRN X-Received: by 10.28.211.85 with SMTP id k82mr6228wmg.48.1496333796404; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:16:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:16:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:16:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: Kent Watsen , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147131866a6350550e85c88" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 16:16:41 -0000 --001a1147131866a6350550e85c88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library > > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > > > > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is > > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent > > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > > > > > > I get that. > > This can easily be an augment. > > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > available in all datastores. > > > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > library. > > But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > I see no reason why this data node cannot be an augment. No reason why the RD draft cannot say "a server that implements revised datastores MUST implement the ietf-datastores module". leaf-list datastore { type identityref { base ds:datastore; } description "The datastores in which this module is supported."; } IMO this is a bad design because it lets the server change YANG conformance. I get it that the intent is to list stuff like I2RS-only modules are for I2RS-only datastores. But this leaf-list goes way beyond the intended use-cases to support anything the server wants to implement. e.g. modules A and C are candidate-only. Modules B, D, E are running only. Module F is candidate and startup only. This will make client implementations much more complicated. > > /martin > > Andy > > > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. > > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > container datastores { > > > > config false; > > > > description > > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; > > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > > type identityref { > > > > base ds:datastore; > > > > } > > > > description > > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > > } > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG > > > module > > > > library. > > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > > > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something > > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. > > > > > > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > /netconf-state/datastores > > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > > > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is > "this > > > > server"? > > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > > > accessible > > > > in all protocols? > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > > > > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > > > > > IETF repository. > > > > > > > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abstract: > > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server > > > (e.g., > > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple > caching > > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval > of > > > > > this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > > > submission > > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > > --001a1147131866a6350550e85c88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <= mbj@tail-f.com><= /span> wrote:
Andy Bie= rman <andy@yumaworks.com> w= rote:
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaw= orks.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module= Library
> > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC.=
> >
> > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library,= is
> > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis.=
> > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are
> > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This addition has = been
> > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most re= cent
> > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01).<= br> > >
> >
> I get that.
> This can easily be an augment.

If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't
understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are
available in all datastores.

> IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module lib= rary.

But YANG library lists the models a server implements.=C2=A0 It has
implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the
server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true.=C2=A0 So adding t= his crucial
piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo.


I see no reason why this data node can= not be an augment.
No reason why the RD draft cannot say "a = server that implements
revised datastores MUST implement the ietf= -datastores module".
         leaf-list datastore {
           type identityref {
             base ds:datastore;
           }
           description
             "The datastores in which this module is supported.";
         }

IMO this is a bad design because it lets the serv= er change YANG conformance.
I get it that the intent is to list s= tuff like I2RS-only modules are for I2RS-only datastores.
But thi= s leaf-list goes way beyond the intended use-cases to support anything the<= /div>
server wants to implement. =C2=A0e.g. modules A and C are candida= te-only.=C2=A0 Modules B, D, E
are running only. Module F is cand= idate and startup only.=C2=A0 This will make client implementations
much more complicated.



=C2=A0

/martin


Andy
=C2=A0

> There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores.=
> That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores.
>
>
>
> >
> > /martin
> >
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies which dat= astores are supported by this server.";
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identityref {
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;<= br> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A datastore s= upported by this server.";
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to t= he YANG
> > module
> > > library.
> > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > >
> > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that so= mething
> > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datas= tores.
> > >
> > > One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-stat= e/datastores
> > > since that's where its been for 7 years.
> > >
> > > Also the text says "supported by this server".=C2= =A0 What protocol is "this
> > > server"?
> > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores = are
> > accessible
> > > in all protocols?
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG L= ibrary to
> > > > support the revised-datastores draft.
> > > >
> > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to a= dopt this
> > > > draft as a WG item?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Kent
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> > > >
> > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895= bis-00.txt
> > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and post= ed to the
> > > > IETF repository.
> > > >
> > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmd= sdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Li= brary
> > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
> > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Sub= mission
> > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
> > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ht= tps://www.ietf.org/internet-
> > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-<= /a>
> > > > rfc7895bis/
> > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > rfc7895bis-00
> > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatra= cker.ietf.org/
> > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Abstract:
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes a YANG library tha= t provides information
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modules used by a netwo= rk management server
> > (e.g.,
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF)= server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided to allow clients t= o minimize retrieval of
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from t= he time of
> > > > submission
> > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.= ietf.org.
> > > >
> > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/netconf
> > > >
> >

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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB0841; H:HE1PR07MB0843.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB0843DAE079DC519CE524B8FD9BF60HE1PR07MB0843eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Jun 2017 23:14:23.5173 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB0841 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] subtree filter for list within a list (with no key specified for the 1st list) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:14:30 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB0843DAE079DC519CE524B8FD9BF60HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm uncertain about how to interpret a few statements in RFC6241 about subt= ree filtering (especially statements about nested elements and list content= ). If I have this model: ------------------------ list first { key "k1"; leaf k1 { type uint8; } list second { key "k2" leaf k2 { type string; } leaf color { type string; } } } and this instance data in the server: ------------------------------------ 55 test1 red test2 blue 88 test1 yellow test3 green will this subtree filter: ------------------------------- test1 return the following data ? ----------------------------- 55 test1 red 88 test1 yellow (i.e. is a {*, value} match for keys of nested lists supported with subtree= filtering ?) I assume I could extend this further and have any combination of 'wildcards= ' and specific values for keys across N embedded lists ? i.e. {*, value, *= , value, etc} In xpath this would be /first/second[k2=3D'test1'] (no predicate for k1) Rgds, Jason --_000_HE1PR07MB0843DAE079DC519CE524B8FD9BF60HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I’m uncertain about how to interpret a few statement= s in RFC6241 about subtree filtering (especially statements about nested el= ements and list content).

 

If I have this model:

------------------------

 

list first {

    key “k1”;=

    leaf k1 { type uint8; }

    list second {

        key “k2&#= 8221;

        leaf k2 { type = string; }

        leaf color { ty= pe string; }

    }

}

 

and this instance data in the server:

------------------------------------

 

<first>

   <k1>55</k1>

   <second>

        <k2>test1= </k2>

        <color>re= d</color>

   </second>

   <second>

        <k2>test2= </k2>

        <color>bl= ue</color>

   </second>

</first>

<first>

   <k1>88</k1>

   <second>

        <k2>test1= </k2>

        <color>ye= llow</color>

   </second>

   <second>

        <k2>test3= </k2>

        <color>gr= een</color>

   </second>

</first>

 

will this subtree filter:

-------------------------------

 

<filter type=3D"subtree">

    <first>

        <second><= o:p>

          &nb= sp; <k2>test1</k2>

        </second>=

    </first>

</filter>

 

return the following data ?

-----------------------------

<first>

   <k1>55</k1>

   <second>

        <k2>test1= </k2>

        <color>re= d</color>

   </second>

</first>

<first>

   <k1>88</k1>

   <second>

        <k2>test1= </k2>

        <color>ye= llow</color>

   </second>

</first>

 

 

(i.e. is a {*, value} match for keys of nested lists suppo= rted with subtree filtering ?)

 

I assume I could extend this further and have any combinat= ion of ‘wildcards’ and specific values for keys across N embedd= ed lists ?  i.e. {*, value, *, value, etc}

 

In xpath this would be /first/second[k2=3D’test1R= 17;]   (no predicate for k1)

 

Rgds,

Jason

 

--_000_HE1PR07MB0843DAE079DC519CE524B8FD9BF60HE1PR07MB0843eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jun 1 17:08:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8D412944E for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 17:08:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9_MZIS4rupPB for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 17:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ACC9129404 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 17:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id l18so73684084oig.2 for ; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 17:08:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=22nTavWTJjv3vPKg9EdFazN6kmmHvKefLRal9UgQ5dI=; b=jg7QCGXlHG1VrwHHae5jtPNJTfb0MoQVEADEfceMYTN+lV2h8Yy4uQnjEEtaRbVS1A R/fFvakz23iWwAMo1mpswW063/isO//u7DgYWAeN6DufDtCPZaLSfo6lZq0c7dWHDuEw V8JFhjz3EPnt/THaL8p/bsNcaHncQ9jpfGRcj+MUERBR+fydEwbv1GaIuurcLuJz6q0W Z91D8pEvgd/j2mLcNyQ0VI1yeZT7ASASP6Ug/pTAZty1bK6NTbSNa8lRncs70T6lpoOw ON3fsQc49ZENWyyIJ493j1vbV9/gk102TRR7tjkLt3u6/qwUcsiGYCturS2N0q4Yw8jd QDrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=22nTavWTJjv3vPKg9EdFazN6kmmHvKefLRal9UgQ5dI=; b=jTTDjbHEijVchogNQDdEPjodp/Q2cFPF/r7Y34XyftHA9pWt0Vzfj3rixT6E7N2J9x 7cpNPpDaLQoCh/3dQ3bz1SpwbwNapPzMXlgL0Avmbfcpu8W0WYumvvDvJWqnqv/PTYeO 9gVSP1au58ZaL85uH5R1Y6Zj8rTEBTAXt0lN7upwpFjmgy9pUZ5dKPiEfHU0Yu35y5C1 WV9a4vtWp+t68cjM0BLRR3o5edQB5UhzsYFIlKsb5tBXbITZWdIRVCBkhrQgo9OBg7k1 v1s7oQkUVWF1n8dpq6ncjr7646JkiMHq/EErfx0ZFg2h5x9HZibi/ML45yQPsHbA58XL oH/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcCtQk27StioufUPjASTfPrbQb9QZuJRGawm8moIxgIGtit1/jkc vZcQOcAmmkw+Eg== X-Received: by 10.202.44.134 with SMTP id s128mr1927676ois.7.1496362134640; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-128-107-147-111.cisco.com (dhcp-128-107-147-111.cisco.com. [128.107.147.111]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u16sm178094oif.15.2017.06.01.17.08.52 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Jun 2017 17:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <5B1FACE7-1467-4656-912F-2C531CF56A7D@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 17:08:51 -0700 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5B1FACE7-1467-4656-912F-2C531CF56A7D@juniper.net> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 00:08:57 -0000 > On Jun 1, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > In Chicago, I had a slide like this: >=20 > Should =E2=80=98private-key=E2=80=99 be a union? >=20 > What should be the treatment for when NACM hides a value,=20 > resulting in an invalid response? >=20 >=20 > leaf private-key { > nacm:default-deny-all; > type union { > type binary; > type enumeration { > enum "RESTRICTED" { > description > "The private key is restricted due to = access-control."; > } > enum "INACCESSIBLE" { > description > "The private key is inaccessible due to being = protected > by the cryptographic hardware modules (e.g., a = TPM)."; > } > } > } > mandatory true; > description > "A binary string that contains the value of the private > key. The interpretation of the content is defined in the > registration of the key algorithm. For example, a DSA key > is an INTEGER, an RSA key is represented as RSAPrivateKey > as defined in [RFC3447], and an Elliptic Curve = Cryptography > (ECC) key is represented as ECPrivateKey as defined in > [RFC5915]"; > } >=20 >=20 > Martin stated that, for NACM, the entire private-key node would be=20 > missing, and hence the "RESTRICTED" enumeration would never be sent. >=20 > While I'm okay with the core of this statement, and will remove the > RESTRICTED enum from the draft, I'm concerned by the implication that > servers will implement NACM. =20 >=20 > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG modules > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. >=20 > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: >=20 > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit > access control rule is required for all other users. >=20 > It seems that the description statements should say something that > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > NACM. >=20 > Thoughts? I would agree. At the min. the description statement for = default-deny-all should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module = is enabled=E2=80=9D. By that extension, would we change = default-deny-write to also drop reference to a similar statement? >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Thu Jun 1 18:35:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1375712948D for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:35:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j1krwzBEgtRf for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam03on0090.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.41.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98EDD12783A for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:35:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=swm3fCeKmOpVgfQCxfqsWkq12RShjrwiJYrUiU+AkA4=; b=X9gdBVsItjCyJz5SA/4OsJfvMwrYAEov+7/n3e8iXDgzHe2bgoYuepBFhTKc0Mg5kRwEBClluHAgG5QYHdKRPp8H9oBcMboULvMlzrGRGQpC0q9LxsRIVcvLc12t7xYJRAHLpk2nAt79Wg/S/uMb93SRMjZplK2Mzs+pSl1xotI= Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.151) by BN3PR0501MB1508.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1143.6; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:35:39 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1157.003; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:35:39 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Simplified client-auth okay for call-home apps? 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spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Jun 2017 09:34:14.2519 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB0509 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA03Se0hTURgAcM7u3e71sTjN16eW1ZAoI22SKFamSLQIRf0nLSlnXtTUaffq yCJZWTGc2iSlFGNKglRqKYpS5mMzmpL5AFEUM1+lVKRNMhOlbXdB//2+x+Gc851DE5ISoRed rsxlWKUiUypyJCvj230Pr8pkCUfWjKEhPdVUiFb7mQqpaJkShhPyuroNgXz89hglb/7zhIwh zjseT2Ey01UMGxCW5JjWPlIrypn0vFZ630yp0R3PIkTTgI9CW3VyEXKkJbgPwaexISEfvEMw /70IWQMSlxCwaR4V8ZWHAtC+NyE+mEOgmZ6zVBxoEY6EoaV5gdWuWA5q81tbnsAHoXFrlbDa BUfDreEOe08szH1dtDsZtranbD0k9oWq6RrbWjFOhN6eQspqCX5Owq9Od6sd8EloujchtBph d1gfaBDwe3nA5ILeZsAY6jqHCN5usDy/bbsbwmUIGkxqe9NeaKn5QfHeDaN6LeJdTEBpfShv 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dGhlciB0eXBlIG9mIGNlcnRzLg0KDQpVcGRhdGVkIGluIG15IGxvY2FsIGNvcHkuDQoNCg0KSy4N Cg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Jun 2 06:19:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C19712EA7C for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WnY7tWCiqEpg for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCA112EA6A for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:19:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 6E8D21820E70; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 15:21:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F31C81820E6C; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 15:21:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , andy@yumaworks.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:19:36 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 13:19:46 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > Andy Bierman wrote: >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library >> > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. >> > >> > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is >> > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. >> > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are >> > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been >> > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent >> > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). >> > >> > >> I get that. >> This can easily be an augment. > > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > available in all datastores. > >> IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module library. > > But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. I agree but I have another comment: It seems that basically the same info will be specified in two different ways for RD and for schema mount: 1. which modules are implemented in a datastore 2. which modules are implemented under a mount point This is awkward and should IMO be unified. The schema mount approach, if used for RD, would have the advantage that a named schema is defined as a collection of modules and multiple datastores that use the same schema can just reference it so that it is immediately clear what datastores have identical schemas. The other difference is that in schema mount we permit different revisions of a module to be implemented under different mount points and/or at the top level. I am not sure it is a good thing to do, and actually I would be willing to change that - at least for the use-schema case - so as to have only one revision of each module implemented. Lada > > > /martin > > >> There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. >> That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. >> >> >> >> > >> > /martin >> > >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> > >> > > >> > > container datastores { >> > > config false; >> > > description >> > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; >> > > leaf-list datastore { >> > > type identityref { >> > > base ds:datastore; >> > > } >> > > description >> > > "A datastore supported by this server."; >> > > } >> > > } >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG >> > module >> > > library. >> > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. >> > > >> > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something >> > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. >> > > >> > > One might expect to find the datastore list in /netconf-state/datastores >> > > since that's where its been for 7 years. >> > > >> > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is "this >> > > server"? >> > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are >> > accessible >> > > in all protocols? >> > > >> > > >> > > Andy >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >> > > > support the revised-datastores draft. >> > > > >> > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >> > > > draft as a WG item? >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Kent >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > > > >> > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >> > > > IETF repository. >> > > > >> > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >> > > > Revision: 00 >> > > > Title: YANG Module Library >> > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 >> > > > Group: Individual Submission >> > > > Pages: 15 >> > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >> > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt >> > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > rfc7895bis/ >> > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > rfc7895bis-00 >> > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Abstract: >> > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information >> > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server >> > (e.g., >> > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching >> > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of >> > > > this information. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> > > > submission >> > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> > > > >> > > > The IETF Secretariat >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Netconf mailing list >> > > > Netconf@ietf.org >> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jun 2 06:27:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACD812EB86 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ckSPcd37oaLx for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C2812EB90 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 25DE31820E70; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 15:29:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C0241820E6C; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 15:29:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund Cc: Netconf In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:27:49 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 13:27:55 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >> Andy Bierman wrote: >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund >> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi, >> > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: >> > > > Hi, >> > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module Library >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. >> > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). >> > > >> > > >> > I get that. >> > This can easily be an augment. >> >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are >> available in all datastores. >> >> > > What does this even mean? > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > The client MUST understand both of them, What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything is defined in one module. Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. Lada > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module >> library. >> >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. >> >> > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this node > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datastores > are irrelevant. > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > >> >> /martin >> >> > Andy > > >> >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. >> > >> > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > /martin >> > > >> > >> > >> > Andy >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > container datastores { >> > > > config false; >> > > > description >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server."; >> > > > leaf-list datastore { >> > > > type identityref { >> > > > base ds:datastore; >> > > > } >> > > > description >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; >> > > > } >> > > > } >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the YANG >> > > module >> > > > library. >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. >> > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that something >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. >> > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in >> /netconf-state/datastores >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. >> > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is >> "this >> > > > server"? >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are >> > > accessible >> > > > in all protocols? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Andy >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. >> > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >> > > > > draft as a WG item? >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, >> > > > > Kent >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >> > > > > IETF repository. >> > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >> > > > > Revision: 00 >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission >> > > > > Pages: 15 >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server >> > > (e.g., >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple >> caching >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval >> of >> > > > > this information. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> > > > > submission >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org. >> > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > Netconf mailing list >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jun 2 07:55:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9C612EBD2 for ; 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Fri, 02 Jun 2017 07:55:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:55:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:55:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: Martin Bjorklund , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11442996a1efa70550fb57a1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 14:55:27 -0000 --001a11442996a1efa70550fb57a1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi, > >> > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module > Library > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > >> > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, is > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most > recent > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I get that. > >> > This can easily be an augment. > >> > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > >> available in all datastores. > >> > >> > > > > What does this even mean? > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > > The client MUST understand both of them, > > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything is > defined in one module. > > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed to sync the schema trees between client and server. Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality contain the YANG modules for that functionality. The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a co-author) does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores module. This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. No need for new protocol.s. An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" just fine. > > Lada > Andy > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > >> library. > >> > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > >> > >> > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this node > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datastores > > are irrelevant. > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > >> > >> /martin > >> > >> > > Andy > > > > > >> > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > >> > > >> > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > /martin > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > Andy > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > >> > > > config false; > >> > > > description > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this > server."; > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > >> > > > type identityref { > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > >> > > > } > >> > > > description > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > >> > > > } > >> > > > } > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the > YANG > >> > > module > >> > > > library. > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > >> > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that > something > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of datastores. > >> > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > >> /netconf-state/datastores > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > >> > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is > >> "this > >> > > > server"? > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > >> > > accessible > >> > > > in all protocols? > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Andy > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen < > kwatsen@juniper.net> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > Kent > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > >> > > > > IETF repository. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management > server > >> > > (e.g., > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple > >> caching > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval > >> of > >> > > > > this information. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time > of > >> > > > > submission > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >> tools.ietf.org. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > --001a11442996a1efa70550fb57a1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <<= a href=3D"mailto:lhotka@nic.cz" target=3D"_blank">lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> writes:

> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
>
>> Andy Bierman <andy@yumawo= rks.com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > Andy Bierman <a= ndy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>> > > > Hi,
>> > > >
>> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YA= NG Module Library
>> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in ano= ther RFC.
>> > >
>> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG= library, is
>> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-modu= le basis.
>> > > This allows the server to inform the client which module= s are
>> > > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This addi= tion has been
>> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores= (most recent
>> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datasto= res-01).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > I get that.
>> > This can easily be an augment.
>>
>> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed a= re
>> available in all datastores.
>>
>>
>
> What does this even mean?
> The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores.
> The client MUST understand both of them,

What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if
both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything is defined in one module.



It is basic coupling an= d cohesion 101.
The RD module is only required for servers that i= mplement RD.

The YANG module library contains the = conformance data needed
to sync the schema trees between client a= nd server.
Only data related to this purpose should be in this mo= dule.

As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defini= ng the functionality
contain the YANG modules for that functional= ity.
The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on = as a co-author)
does not even explain how to use the new data add= itions at all.


Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers.

No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the iet= f-datastores module.
This is just another YANG module available v= ia NETCONF and RESTCONF.
No need for new protocol.s.
An "old client" will still be able to use the "= old datastores" just fine.
=C2=A0

Lada


Andy
=C2= =A0

>
>
>
>> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG m= odule
>> library.
>>
>> But YANG library lists the models a server implements.=C2=A0 It ha= s
>> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by = the
>> server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true.=C2=A0 So= adding this crucial
>> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo.
>>
>>
> But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment
> does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node.
> It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this node=
> will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datastores=
> are irrelevant.
>
> The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info.
> The datastore info is not conformance data.
>
>
>
>>
>> /martin
>>
>>
> Andy
>
>
>>
>> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-da= tastores.
>> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastor= es.
>> >
>>
>
> So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info= ?
>
>
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > /martin
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies = which datastores are supported by this server.";
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore { >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identityref = {
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base ds:da= tastore;
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A da= tastore supported by this server.";
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is rel= ated to the YANG
>> > > module
>> > > > library.
>> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state s= ubtree.
>> > > >
>> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obviou= s that something
>> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list= of datastores.
>> > > >
>> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in
>> /netconf-state/datastores
>> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years.
>> > > >
>> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server&q= uot;.=C2=A0 What protocol is
>> "this
>> > > > server"?
>> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all da= tastores are
>> > > accessible
>> > > > in all protocols?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Andy
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen <<= a href=3D"mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net">kwatsen@juniper.net>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to upda= te YANG Library to
>> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a = poll to adopt this
>> > > > > draft as a WG item?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > Kent
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen= and posted to the
>> > > > > IETF repository.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
>> > > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
>> > > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG = Module Library
>> > > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
>> > > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Indiv= idual Submission
>> > > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15 >> > > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = https://www.ietf.org/internet-
>> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
>> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
>> > > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/
>> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
>> > > > > rfc7895bis/
>> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00
>> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:= //datatracker.ietf.org/
>> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-= 00
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Abstract:
>> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes a YANG li= brary that provides information
>> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modules used b= y a network management server
>> > > (e.g.,
>> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration Protocol = (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple
>> caching
>> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided to allow = clients to minimize retrieval
>> of
>> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minut= es from the time of
>> > > > > submission
>> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are availa= ble at
>> tools.ietf.org.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _________________________________________= ______
>> > > > > Netconf mailing list
>> > > > > Netconf@ie= tf.org
>> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/netconf
>> > > > >
>> > >
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--001a11442996a1efa70550fb57a1-- From nobody Fri Jun 2 08:12:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93107129C15 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:12:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Zg7kt_zSwzQ for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9977F1252BA for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:11:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:13f:c6e9:7c5:afcc] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:13f:c6e9:7c5:afcc]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99FC17CAB0; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 17:11:55 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1496416315; bh=zAufbDe9dccUkZdfxaYY6h6ykbHfxo6U0K7DcuekVvs=; h=From:Date:To; b=KKyPj0as9rTe/L7q1aDAXBTOpohU3a74+NhwRgg7cy6gvRauHtPJFPuB3WOR4OYeX xQ92QQx4Y8R6PWNAzJRt/0GuSxwyMc1CZmhOlVACA/UOZALRexmrBDz9ukwqKeyyVn By1YuZWWyHzqGEfDfpOMRnMg1HTKWUlJ+DHUbw2k= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 17:11:55 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:12:00 -0000 > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: >=20 > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund = wrote: > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund = > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi, > >> > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module = Library > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > >> > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG = library, is > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module = basis. > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has = been > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most = recent > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I get that. > >> > This can easily be an augment. > >> > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed = are > >> available in all datastores. > >> > >> > > > > What does this even mean? > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > > The client MUST understand both of them, >=20 > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything = is > defined in one module. >=20 >=20 >=20 > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such = servers. >=20 > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed > to sync the schema trees between client and server. > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD, = if I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain = modules that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. >=20 > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality > contain the YANG modules for that functionality. > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a = co-author) > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. >=20 >=20 > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. >=20 > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores module. > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. > No need for new protocol.s. >=20 > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" just = fine. It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't = implemented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment = doesn't change this. Lada=20 > =20 >=20 > Lada >=20 >=20 > Andy > =20 >=20 > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG = module > >> library. > >> > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > >> > >> > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this = node > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where = datastores > > are irrelevant. > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > >> > >> /martin > >> > >> > > Andy > > > > > >> > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called = ietf-datastores. > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > >> > > >> > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > /martin > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > Andy > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > >> > > > config false; > >> > > > description > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this = server."; > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > >> > > > type identityref { > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > >> > > > } > >> > > > description > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > >> > > > } > >> > > > } > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to = the YANG > >> > > module > >> > > > library. > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > >> > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that = something > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of = datastores. > >> > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > >> /netconf-state/datastores > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > >> > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol = is > >> "this > >> > > > server"? > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores = are > >> > > accessible > >> > > > in all protocols? > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > Andy > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen = > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG = Library to > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt = this > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > >> > > > > Kent > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > >> > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, = draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted = to the > >> > > > > IETF repository. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > >> > > > > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides = information > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management = server > >> > > (e.g., > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). = Simple > >> caching > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize = retrieval > >> of > >> > > > > this information. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of > >> > > > > submission > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >> tools.ietf.org. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jun 2 08:48:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249B3128E19 for ; 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Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:48:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 08:48:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11491e7e5838420550fc16c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 15:48:46 -0000 --001a11491e7e5838420550fc16c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Andy Bierman writes: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hi, > > >> > > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module > Library > > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > >> > > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG library, > is > > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module basis. > > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most > recent > > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I get that. > > >> > This can easily be an augment. > > >> > > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > > >> available in all datastores. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > What does this even mean? > > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > > > The client MUST understand both of them, > > > > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything is > > defined in one module. > > > > > > > > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. > > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. > > But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such servers. > yes they can -- if it is designed correctly > > > > > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed > > to sync the schema trees between client and server. > > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. > > But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD, if > I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain modules that > are not implemented in running but elsewhere. > lumping all info related to YANG modules in one module is poor cohesion. Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-mandatory.yang?) is even worse cohesion. > > > > > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality > > contain the YANG modules for that functionality. > > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a > co-author) > > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. > > > > > > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't > > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. > > > > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores module. > > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. > > No need for new protocol.s. > > > > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" just fine. > > It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't implemented > in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment doesn't change this. > There is never any expectation that functionality added to a server after the client is coded and deployed will be supported. The only expectation is that the modules used by the client continue to work. There are exceptions (i.e., when the update rules in RFC 7950 are broken) but in general this works. > > Lada > > Andy > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > > >> library. > > >> > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > >> > > >> > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this node > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datastores > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> /martin > > >> > > >> > > > Andy > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called > ietf-datastores. > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > /martin > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Andy > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > >> > > > config false; > > >> > > > description > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this > server."; > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > >> > > > type identityref { > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > description > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to the > YANG > > >> > > module > > >> > > > library. > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that > something > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of > datastores. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol is > > >> "this > > >> > > > server"? > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores are > > >> > > accessible > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen < > kwatsen@juniper.net> > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library > to > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt > this > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > Kent > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to > the > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management > server > > >> > > (e.g., > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple > > >> caching > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval > > >> of > > >> > > > > this information. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the > time of > > >> > > > > submission > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > --001a11491e7e5838420550fc16c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <<= a href=3D"mailto:lhotka@nic.cz" target=3D"_blank">lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

> On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.= com> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Andy Bierman <andy@y= umaworks.com> wrote:
> >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund <<= a href=3D"mailto:mbj@tail-f.com">mbj@tail-f.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> >> > > > Hi,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to t= he YANG Module Library
> >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, i= n another RFC.
> >> > >
> >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of= YANG library, is
> >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per= -module basis.
> >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which m= odules are
> >> > > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This= addition has been
> >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datas= tores (most recent
> >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-da= tastores-01).
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > I get that.
> >> > This can easily be an augment.
> >>
> >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn= 9;t
> >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules lis= ted are
> >> available in all datastores.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > What does this even mean?
> > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores.=
> > The client MUST understand both of them,
>
> What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything = is
> defined in one module.
>
>
>
> It is basic coupling and cohesion 101.
> The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD.

But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such server= s.


yes they can -- if it= is designed correctly

=C2=A0

>
> The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed
> to sync the schema trees between client and server.
> Only data related to this purpose should be in this module.

But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD, if I= understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain modules that = are not implemented in running but elsewhere.


lumping all info related to YANG modules in one modul= e is poor cohesion.
Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-ma= ndatory.yang?)
is even worse cohesion.

= =C2=A0

>
> As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality
> contain the YANG modules for that functionality.
> The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a co-au= thor)
> does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all.
>
>
> Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don'= ;t
> understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers.
>
> No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores module.<= br> > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. > No need for new protocol.s.
>
> An "old client" will still be able to use the "old data= stores" just fine.

It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't imple= mented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment does= n't change this.


The= re is never any expectation that functionality added to a server after the = client is coded
and deployed will be supported. =C2=A0 The only e= xpectation is that the modules used by
the client continue to wor= k. There are exceptions (i.e., when the update rules in RFC 7950 are broken= )
but in general this works.

=C2=A0

Lada



Andy
=C2=A0
>
>
> Lada
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the Y= ANG module
> >> library.
> >>
> >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements.=C2=A0 = It has
> >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supporte= d by the
> >> server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true.=C2= =A0 So adding this crucial
> >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo.
> >>
> >>
> > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment<= br> > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node.
> > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this= node
> > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where datas= tores
> > are irrelevant.
> >
> > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info.
> > The datastore info is not conformance data.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> /martin
> >>
> >>
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ie= tf-datastores.
> >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new dat= astores.
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore= info?
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > /martin
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Andy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identi= fies which datastores are supported by this server.";
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore= {
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identit= yref {
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base = ds:datastore;
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description<= br> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "= ;A datastore supported by this server.";
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree i= s related to the YANG
> >> > > module
> >> > > > library.
> >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-st= ate subtree.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not o= bvious that something
> >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a= list of datastores.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in=
> >> /netconf-state/datastores
> >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > >> > > >
> >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this ser= ver".=C2=A0 What protocol is
> >> "this
> >> > > > server"?
> >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not a= ll datastores are
> >> > > accessible
> >> > > > in all protocols?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Andy
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen = <kwatsen@juniper.net>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to= update YANG Library to
> >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiati= ng a poll to adopt this
> >> > > > > draft as a WG item?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > Kent
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netcon= f-rfc7895bis-00.txt
> >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent W= atsen and posted to the
> >> > > > > IETF repository.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> >> > > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000 > >> > > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = YANG Module Library
> >> > > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
> >> > > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = Individual Submission
> >> > > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = 15
> >> > > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> >> > > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> >> > > > > rfc7895bis/
> >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00
> >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/
> >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc789= 5bis-00
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Abstract:
> >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes a YA= NG library that provides information
> >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modules u= sed by a network management server
> >> > > (e.g.,
> >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration Prot= ocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple
> >> caching
> >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided to a= llow clients to minimize retrieval
> >> of
> >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of = minutes from the time of
> >> > > > > submission
> >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are a= vailable at
> >> tools.ietf.org.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ____________________________________= ___________
> >> > > > > Netconf mailing list
> >> > > > > Netco= nf@ietf.org
> >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/netconf
> >> > > > >
> >> > >
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Netconf mailing list
> > Netconf@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ne= tconf
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67






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This addition has been > > > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most recent > > > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > > > > > > > > > I get that. > > > This can easily be an augment. > > > > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > > available in all datastores. > > > > > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > > library. > > > > But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > > > I see no reason why this data node cannot be an augment. > No reason why the RD draft cannot say "a server that implements > revised datastores MUST implement the ietf-datastores module". > > leaf-list datastore { > type identityref { > base ds:datastore; > } > description > "The datastores in which this module is supported."; > } > > > IMO this is a bad design because it lets the server change YANG conformance. > I get it that the intent is to list stuff like I2RS-only modules are for > I2RS-only datastores. > But this leaf-list goes way beyond the intended use-cases to support > anything the > server wants to implement. e.g. modules A and C are candidate-only. > Modules B, D, E > are running only. Module F is candidate and startup only. This will make > client implementations > much more complicated. Andy I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get more so:-( Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the engineering reality that YANG comes in YANG modules. A box will have datastores, a box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores. In relational terms, all very simple. Which RFC defines which is a different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time. I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores, albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG. And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to tease out the different concepts. Tom Petch > > > > /martin > > > > > Andy > > > > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called ietf-datastores. > > > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > Andy > > > From nobody Fri Jun 2 10:02:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2F8127B57 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:02:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yj4D8Hp3U73k for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 437A8126C22 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id d127so31603830wmf.0 for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=F1/TlyTw1/QFd6SiO2U1FvJEjvzORQ9dKQKOEVp+BM8=; b=mYbvsQ913VpmB5bFcnjKXyiMhYozYtkT4cc2LTTolwHd7h2SLcRDFNitufLTQ85Wwq oFprIUXZ73mByw31mlWiamZkv/ermc5vokn7y1g74973iG7frSP0/Cn6ECM4NiwmO5vc 1X0khP5bWD7GFxi+zdteAxZWN88S7wdiVXJ7jXWRRPzgbTXgvj0mvCRyOGpiMD7MuKtj bjfTsS9/5Bo08QimStNNGoeoALRhS0BssqD8EhNFaKrJhVQctyKQprjGWRbsiME8k+2r vm7eWv3aw24b9kdynttGQUoM5puKM5zVb+SvBEXIsoYWW56Vc4QY0B5q09eER5HJ1TWE 4Ewg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=F1/TlyTw1/QFd6SiO2U1FvJEjvzORQ9dKQKOEVp+BM8=; b=g++BNTYPB07qu/95TZYOwPgqoCpSyDVHIUxJy1DjZ4ffIDAXI+gOEDfTjdwXJosUbq bU8RUGgpD6p3Jpz2Yaq93WrfRI0aam8ipy2KiteFCS48dHwd3DoiqUxhwJ1d7k7fzJB+ CRnB/pqA8WNI5ATEe9TQbAGpnvtf/MC/VniHG6e30pK7Libvpdl44K0QDpqHkZ4dVd4b hPN5d2HaDSUSFT7MXYbGOlfULOWabeQyhBqLzZSfDh5dgeC3Peih5y5U6plxMQ6z8oC2 YyIug8ujPc3g+/HBHkLveheqAaWxutlAlac/c/KtV/Oui+cZDNkB9GbpeIMCO7MUF9Eo cs6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBNw5HQUdzfJN38Iq8HsKY8GUTGKO7VS9ufUrKIRfaCXuD9i2q9 nt7hYO+qs3WABFsXl6FXMLrYeX4ob37M X-Received: by 10.28.211.85 with SMTP id k82mr222791wmg.48.1496422923754; Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:02:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:02:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: "t.petch" Cc: Martin Bjorklund , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11471318cdea7c0550fd1c73" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 17:02:08 -0000 --001a11471318cdea7c0550fd1c73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 9:03 AM, t.petch wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Bierman" > To: "Martin Bjorklund" > Cc: "Netconf" > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 5:16 PM > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module > Library > > > > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > > > > > > > > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG > library, is > > > > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module > basis. > > > > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > > > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > > > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most > recent > > > > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I get that. > > > > This can easily be an augment. > > > > > > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > > > available in all datastores. > > > > > > > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > > > library. > > > > > > But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > > server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > > > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > > > > > > I see no reason why this data node cannot be an augment. > > No reason why the RD draft cannot say "a server that implements > > revised datastores MUST implement the ietf-datastores module". > > > > leaf-list datastore { > > type identityref { > > base ds:datastore; > > } > > description > > "The datastores in which this module is supported."; > > } > > > > > > IMO this is a bad design because it lets the server change YANG > conformance. > > I get it that the intent is to list stuff like I2RS-only modules are > for > > I2RS-only datastores. > > But this leaf-list goes way beyond the intended use-cases to support > > anything the > > server wants to implement. e.g. modules A and C are candidate-only. > > Modules B, D, E > > are running only. Module F is candidate and startup only. This will > make > > client implementations > > much more complicated. > > Andy > > I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get > more so:-( > > Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the > engineering > reality that YANG comes in YANG modules. A box will have datastores, a > box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to > modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores. In > relational terms, all very simple. Which RFC defines which is a > different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time. > > I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores, > albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG. > > And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the > IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled > together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have > been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to > tease out the different concepts. > > Whether RD will actually work or not is a separate topic. I have doubts that the incremental architectural purity gained is worth breaking many deployed modules. Basic concepts like module cohesion can be subjective, so we can disagree on whether augment /foo or republish /foo is the right choice. The proposed leaf-list solution ignores the fact that datastores are not independent of each other. There are only 3 variants 1) local configuration (config=true) 2) operational state (config=false + value-in-use for config=true) 3) other (special-case control-plane datastores) Variant (1) ALWAYS includes the implemented subset of candidate, running, startup, intended, and applied. If not, the system is broken. If the data model produces unintended garbage results, it might mean its the wrong data model. > Tom Petch > Andy > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called > ietf-datastores. > > > > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > --001a11471318cdea7c0550fd1c73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 9:03 AM, t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com&g= t; wrote:
----- Original Message -= ----
From: "Andy Bierman" <an= dy@yumaworks.com>
To: "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@= tail-f.com>
Cc: "Netconf" <netconf@iet= f.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 5:16 PM

> On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com>
wrote:
>
> > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaw= orks.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund
<mbj@tail-f.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Andy Bierman <= andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the Y= ANG Module
Library
> > > > > This new container can be in its own module, in an= other RFC.
> > > >
> > > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YAN= G
library, is
> > > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-mod= ule
basis.
> > > > This allows the server to inform the client which modul= es are
> > > > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0 This add= ition has been
> > > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastore= s (most
recent
> > > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datast= ores-01).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I get that.
> > > This can easily be an augment.
> >
> > If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't<= br> > > understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed = are
> > available in all datastores.
> >
> > > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG = module
> > library.
> >
> > But YANG library lists the models a server implements.=C2=A0 It h= as
> > implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by= the
> > server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true.=C2=A0 S= o adding this crucial
> > piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo.
> >
> >
> I see no reason why this data node cannot be an augment.
> No reason why the RD draft cannot say "a server that implements > revised datastores MUST implement the ietf-datastores module". >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list datastore {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type identityref {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The datastores i= n which this module is supported.";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>
>
> IMO this is a bad design because it lets the server change YANG
conformance.
> I get it that the intent is to list stuff like I2RS-only modules are for
> I2RS-only datastores.
> But this leaf-list goes way beyond the intended use-cases to support > anything the
> server wants to implement.=C2=A0 e.g. modules A and C are candidate-on= ly.
> Modules B, D, E
> are running only. Module F is candidate and startup only.=C2=A0 This w= ill
make
> client implementations
> much more complicated.

Andy

I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get
more so:-(

Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the
engineering
reality that YANG comes in YANG modules.=C2=A0 A box will have datastores, = a
box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to
modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores.=C2=A0 In
relational terms, all very simple.=C2=A0 Which RFC defines which is a
different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time.

I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores,
albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG.

And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the
IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled
together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have
been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to
tease out the different concepts.



Whether RD will actuall= y work or not is a separate topic.
I have doubts that the increme= ntal architectural purity gained is
worth breaking many deployed = modules.

Basic concepts like module cohesion can b= e subjective, so we can disagree
on whether augment /foo or repub= lish /foo is the right choice.

The proposed leaf-l= ist solution ignores the fact that datastores are not
independent= of each other.=C2=A0 There are only 3 variants

= =C2=A0 1) local configuration (config=3Dtrue)
=C2=A0 2) operation= al state (config=3Dfalse + value-in-use for config=3Dtrue)
=C2=A0= 3) other (special-case control-plane datastores)

= Variant (1) ALWAYS includes the implemented subset of=C2=A0
candi= date, running, startup, intended, and applied.
If not, the system= is broken.

If the data model produces unintended = garbage results, it might mean
its the wrong data model.

=C2=A0
Tom Petch

Andy
=C2=A0
> >
> > /martin
> >
> >
> Andy
>
> > > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called
ietf-datastores.
> > > That is the natural place to find info about the new datasto= res.
> > >
> > > > /martin
> > > >
> > > Andy
> > >


--001a11471318cdea7c0550fd1c73-- From nobody Fri Jun 2 10:14:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72211126557 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:14:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dOdCGHSK8Qf for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x236.google.com (mail-wr0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E5C51243F6 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:14:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g76so10158851wrd.1 for ; Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:14:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sVteNUCQY++1P7L1ec4UlIgaJSGi8EIVSUplVxj6/G8=; b=dQraQ1PpsZnj0gs1enVMj4iWjFma0uer8eIapXO4uYV7l0oHhikOp8N0tYJdmLpxOC kM08mzVkoqyUhgZtChfehxR09E6j1uaW3VDaityLjaI10fvfp4LsxMbN3HpSxqJ9y4e9 WwGkEciwvu7/FqvZNNcLsGkLDlwzWKwZj5MtMd50SVeMuDsOn9qd0BLe+xIePGzXkrvH 4oj2H83dgkUY65ORcWfYgw8LUEI33s9xRufXtMfR6VkKLpX6voBEWQaNNTB+i4JXKAX7 M/t/5EvpPHqKNGefc8aPswBI5IL2hRWEJyuZLIzvrUCPZ5Qze5qTXtudcTbuvSXwPxa4 U1aw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sVteNUCQY++1P7L1ec4UlIgaJSGi8EIVSUplVxj6/G8=; b=l9k8oRl+0FS99vF1v4oZBucxFdzGwIcKe3rEkHhnuixbKvUA4XGH/Xm1w9WP+IQz7H s4wO5GclDPq4rgzOeKwtkilGJq7u1E+hGHv10FDuzt4H4QR69Dc82S148yrpTbAIkeji MxGM5BeCuQUl6X0pSCFDDlR6qr6cahZzuRNcTbmJ8Gt6TwubKG+lYXRf9SPxBbMXuV8u BtUgFVpZfZvDrTOHaF+gZuMGZd8tMKTznf6CAxOX+nCUErqOo7BwUUyYMQ3ej26GN6u3 zJbZM8NgPQfZYGxsl9/VX0VHCylR4nYIYtHd+cVD+9AnFmRT3ve9B/kK0aJjq9kS9reV 32Iw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAmUHVofXwi1KoNuqFOnF+swi89zFbsRdfZ5/nu9am5/2dfw5cc TiMhoeXO+scrrf+Cnd3pEu/KTFu3YJxk X-Received: by 10.223.173.38 with SMTP id p35mr6605757wrc.88.1496423640034; Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:14:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:13:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5B1FACE7-1467-4656-912F-2C531CF56A7D@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:13:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d67f865e0550fd47ba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 17:14:04 -0000 --f403045cf3d67f865e0550fd47ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > > On Jun 1, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > In Chicago, I had a slide like this: > > > > Should =E2=80=98private-key=E2=80=99 be a union? > > > > What should be the treatment for when NACM hides a value, > > resulting in an invalid response? > > > > > > leaf private-key { > > nacm:default-deny-all; > > type union { > > type binary; > > type enumeration { > > enum "RESTRICTED" { > > description > > "The private key is restricted due to access-control."; > > } > > enum "INACCESSIBLE" { > > description > > "The private key is inaccessible due to being protected > > by the cryptographic hardware modules (e.g., a TPM)."; > > } > > } > > } > > mandatory true; > > description > > "A binary string that contains the value of the private > > key. The interpretation of the content is defined in the > > registration of the key algorithm. For example, a DSA key > > is an INTEGER, an RSA key is represented as RSAPrivateKey > > as defined in [RFC3447], and an Elliptic Curve Cryptography > > (ECC) key is represented as ECPrivateKey as defined in > > [RFC5915]"; > > } > > > > > > Martin stated that, for NACM, the entire private-key node would be > > missing, and hence the "RESTRICTED" enumeration would never be sent. > > > > While I'm okay with the core of this statement, and will remove the > > RESTRICTED enum from the draft, I'm concerned by the implication that > > servers will implement NACM. > > > > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, > > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG modules > > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those > > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that > > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these > > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. > > > > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: > > > > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., > > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server > > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have > > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit > > access control rule is required for all other users. > > > > It seems that the description statements should say something that > > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > > NACM. > > > > Thoughts? > > I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all > should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80= =9D. By that > extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop reference to a > similar statement? > > This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NACM. It is also operationally useful to allow an administrator to disable NACM t= o fix a broken NACM configuration (for example). I strongly oppse this change to NACM. I don't see any problem having the NACM extension and "restricted" enum. A server that implements NACM will skip the object and a server that does not will return "restricted". But it would be better to simply not return the instance than have enums that mean "not available". > > > > Kent > Andy > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --f403045cf3d67f865e0550fd47ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani &= lt;mjethananda= ni@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 1, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>
>
> In Chicago, I had a slide like this:
>
>=C2=A0 Should =E2=80=98private-key=E2=80=99 be a union?
>
>=C2=A0 What should be the treatment for when NACM hides a value,
>=C2=A0 resulting in an invalid response?
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf private-key {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 nacm:default-deny-all;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type union {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type binary;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type enumeration {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enum "RESTRICTED&= quot; {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The= private key is restricted due to access-control.";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 enum "INACCESSIBL= E" {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The= private key is inaccessible due to being protected
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the c= ryptographic hardware modules (e.g., a TPM).";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mandatory true;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A binary string that co= ntains the value of the private
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0key. The interpretation= of the content is defined in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0registration of the key= algorithm.=C2=A0 For example, a DSA key
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is an INTEGER, an RSA k= ey is represented as RSAPrivateKey
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as defined in [RFC3447]= , and an Elliptic Curve Cryptography
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(ECC) key is represente= d as ECPrivateKey as defined in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC5915]";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
>
>
> Martin stated that, for NACM, the entire private-key node would be
> missing, and hence the "RESTRICTED" enumeration would never = be sent.
>
> While I'm okay with the core of this statement, and will remove th= e
> RESTRICTED enum from the draft, I'm concerned by the implication t= hat
> servers will implement NACM.
>
> NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented,
> and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG mod= ules
> with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those<= br> > that don't implement NACM.=C2=A0 We are (at least I am) expecting = that
> servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these
> NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules.
>
> Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0/nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCO= NF server
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0will only allow the designated 'recovery session' = to have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0read, write, or execute access to the node.=C2=A0 An expli= cit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0access control rule is required for all other users.
>
> It seems that the description statements should say something that
> makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > NACM.
>
> Thoughts?

I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all s= hould remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80=9D.= By that extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop referen= ce to a similar statement?



This would be a non-bac= kward-compatible change to NACM.
It is also operationally useful = to allow an administrator to disable NACM to
fix a broken NACM co= nfiguration (for example).

I strongly oppse this c= hange to NACM.

I don't see any problem having = the NACM extension and "restricted" enum.
A server that= implements NACM will skip the object and a server that does not
= will return "restricted".=C2=A0 But it would be better to simply = not return the instance
than have enums that mean "not avail= able".



=C2=A0
>
> Kent

Andy
=C2=A0
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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Watsen Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045e274ab089360550ff983c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 19:59:55 -0000 --f403045e274ab089360550ff983c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > ...I'm concerned by the implication that > > servers will implement NACM. > > > > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, > > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG modules > > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those > > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that > > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these > > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. > > > > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: > > > > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., > > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server > > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have > > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit > > access control rule is required for all other users. > > > > It seems that the description statements should say something that > > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > > NACM. > > > > Thoughts? > > I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all > should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80= =9D. By that > extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop reference to a > similar statement? > > This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NACM. > > > > [KENT] How so? we're just trying to fix the extension statement > descriptions to > > useful to servers that don't use NACM also... > > > The extension statement applies to implementations of NACM. Nothing else. Put text in the description-stmt if you want server behavior outside of NACM. > > > It is also operationally useful to allow an administrator to disable NACM > to > > fix a broken NACM configuration (for example). > > > > [KENT] I'm not following, how is this related? > > > the nacm extensions are only for NACM implementations. NACM can be enabled and disabled, so this text is needed. > > > I strongly oppse this change to NACM. > > > > [KENT] Not sure why, but if it's a good reason, then I suggest we define > another > > set of YANG extension statements that can describe node-sensitivity in an > ACM- > > independent manner. To be honest, I've never been sure that > default-deny-all > > and default-deny-write are sufficient in general. For instance, why can'= t > I flag > > nodes that require elevated privileges, though not necessarily a recovery > session? > > > > > There is just 1 standard access control module for NETCONF and RESTCONF. it is a SHOULD implement, not MAY implement, for servers. I see no reason to support proprietary ACMs or start work on a different standard ACM. > I don't see any problem having the NACM extension and "restricted" enum. > > A server that implements NACM will skip the object and a server that does > not > > will return "restricted". But it would be better to simply not return th= e > instance > > than have enums that mean "not available". > > > > [KENT] my original idea was to ensure that the data could still be a vali= d > instance > > of the model, even when the data is restricted, by replacing it with > something that > > conforms to the data model. However, to do this universally would requir= e > models > > to use a 'union' around the original type and an enum for the node that > would be > > otherwise restricted. A different strategy would be needed for > containers, lists, and > > groupings. All this seems ugly to me to try to do in an IETF-standard. = I > think that > > it might be better for each ACM solution to describe how it handles > restricted nodes > > (NACM snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the offending node with > some > > special way, etc.). This is main reason why I removed the RESTRICTED > enum... > > > IMO a better data model would be a separate leaf that described the key-access-type as normal, restricted, or inaccessible, instead of overloading the first leaf with "reasons no instance is here" semantics -- but this info is not very useful so I am not suggesting adding a new leaf. > > Kent > Andy > > --f403045e274ab089360550ff983c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

> ...I'm concerned by the implication that
> servers will implement NACM.
>
> NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented,
> and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG mod= ules
> with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those<= br> > that don't implement NACM.=C2=A0 We are (at least I am) expecting = that
> servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these
> NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules.
>
> Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0/nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCO= NF server
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0will only allow the designated 'recovery session' = to have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0read, write, or execute access to the node.=C2=A0 An expli= cit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0access control rule is required for all other users.
>
> It seems that the description statements should say something that
> makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > NACM.
>
> Thoughts?

I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all s= hould remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80=9D.= By that extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop referen= ce to a similar statement?

This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NA= CM.

=C2=A0

[KENT] How so?=C2=A0 we're just trying to fix th= e extension statement descriptions to

useful to servers that don't use NACM also...=

=C2=A0



The extension statement ap= plies to implementations of NACM. Nothing else.
Put text in the d= escription-stmt if you want server behavior outside of NACM.

=
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It is also operationally useful to allow an administ= rator to disable NACM to

fix a broken NACM configuration (for example).

=C2=A0

[KENT] I'm not following, how is this related?

=C2=A0



the nacm extensions are on= ly for NACM implementations.
NACM can be enabled and disabled, so= this text is needed.
=C2=A0
=

=C2=A0

I strongly oppse this change to NACM.<= /p>

=C2=A0

[KENT] Not sure why, but if it's a good reason, = then I suggest we define another

set of YANG extension statements that can describe n= ode-sensitivity in an ACM-

independent manner.=C2=A0 To be honest, I've nev= er been sure that default-deny-all

and default-deny-write are sufficient in general.=C2= =A0 For instance, why can't I flag

nodes that require elevated privileges, though not n= ecessarily a recovery session?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0



There is just 1 standard a= ccess control module for NETCONF and RESTCONF.
it is a SHOULD imp= lement, not MAY implement, for servers.
I see no reason to suppor= t proprietary ACMs or start work on a different standard ACM.

=C2=A0

I don't see any problem having the NACM extensio= n and "restricted" enum.

A server that implements NACM will skip the object a= nd a server that does not

will return "restricted".=C2=A0 But it wou= ld be better to simply not return the instance

than have enums that mean "not available".=

=C2=A0

[KENT] my original idea was to ensure that the data = could still be a valid instance

of the model, even when the data is restricted, by r= eplacing it with something that

conforms to the data model.=C2=A0 However, to do thi= s universally would require models

to use a 'union' around the original type an= d an enum for the node that would be

otherwise restricted.=C2=A0 A different strategy wou= ld be needed for containers, lists, and

groupings.=C2=A0 All this seems ugly to me to try to= do in an IETF-standard.=C2=A0 I think that

it might be better for each ACM solution to describe= how it handles restricted nodes

(NACM snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the = offending node with some

special way, etc.).=C2=A0 This is main reason why I = removed the RESTRICTED enum...=

=C2=A0



IMO a better= data model would be a separate leaf that described the key-access-type
as normal, restricted, or inaccessible, instead of overloading the f= irst leaf with
"reasons no instance is here" semantics = -- but this info is not very useful so
I am not suggesting adding= a new leaf.




=C2=A0

Kent



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--f403045e274ab089360550ff983c-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 00:44:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CC91294C9 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 00:44:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SDSSVmypIQ5e for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 00:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F379B129B60 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 00:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:a84e:8d8:ae0c:ab31] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:a84e:8d8:ae0c:ab31]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5827C62528; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:44:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1496648670; bh=J4fXlQ4hlOFeNb8wPVeetvYAorFrhQQhkN8THstAu2Q=; h=From:Date:To; b=h6m/JLpmb95bv9ecqNkihSm2C6Jzu1xm4nBt9Sp6rH2fdSo/npHK+alecntSWe8Sq EdYbBddUcfOToYU2iCelP0X3lo1283Ed1PeXkVZ7cPg2qMUPmmjNiFYSpOu/TYiilD tNmcU+GzTCAxFN7YjAt9p/Kia9UpfjhQywraCLRQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:44:31 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 07:44:36 -0000 > On 2 Jun 2017, at 17:48, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: > > Andy Bierman writes: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund = wrote: > > > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund = > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hi, > > >> > > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > >> > > > Hi, > > >> > > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG = Module Library > > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another = RFC. > > >> > > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG = library, is > > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module = basis. > > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has = been > > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores = (most recent > > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I get that. > > >> > This can easily be an augment. > > >> > > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed = are > > >> available in all datastores. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > What does this even mean? > > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > > > The client MUST understand both of them, > > > > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if = everything is > > defined in one module. > > > > > > > > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. > > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. >=20 > But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such = servers. >=20 >=20 > yes they can -- if it is designed correctly >=20 > =20 >=20 > > > > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed > > to sync the schema trees between client and server. > > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. >=20 > But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD, = if I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain = modules that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. >=20 >=20 > lumping all info related to YANG modules in one module is poor = cohesion. > Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-mandatory.yang?) > is even worse cohesion. >=20 > =20 >=20 > > > > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality > > contain the YANG modules for that functionality. > > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a = co-author) > > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. > > > > > > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't > > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. > > > > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores = module. > > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. > > No need for new protocol.s. > > > > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" just = fine. >=20 > It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't = implemented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment = doesn't change this. >=20 >=20 > There is never any expectation that functionality added to a server = after the client is coded I guess you are talking about how your clients are coded. If it was so = in general, what's then the point of providing YANG library as state = data?=20 > and deployed will be supported. The only expectation is that the = modules used by > the client continue to work. There are exceptions (i.e., when the = update rules in RFC 7950 are broken) > but in general this works. >=20 RFC 6244 describes the data model as "a contract between the clent and = server", and further says: "A client knows how to create valid data for = the server, and knows what data will be sent from the server." But what is the value of such a contract if either party works with a = different spec? Lada > =20 >=20 > Lada >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy > =20 > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG = module > > >> library. > > >> > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this = crucial > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > >> > > >> > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this = node > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where = datastores > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> /martin > > >> > > >> > > > Andy > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called = ietf-datastores. > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new = datastores. > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore = info? > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > /martin > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Andy > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > >> > > > config false; > > >> > > > description > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this = server."; > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > >> > > > type identityref { > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > description > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > } > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to = the YANG > > >> > > module > > >> > > > library. > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that = something > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of = datastores. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What = protocol is > > >> "this > > >> > > > server"? > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores = are > > >> > > accessible > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen = > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG = Library to > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to = adopt this > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > Kent > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, = draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted = to the > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > >> > > > > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides = information > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network = management server > > >> > > (e.g., > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). = Simple > > >> caching > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize = retrieval > > >> of > > >> > > > > this information. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the = time of > > >> > > > > submission > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Netconf mailing list > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jun 5 06:52:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2E0129478 for ; 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Mon, 05 Jun 2017 06:52:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 06:52:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d6519d95055136cfeb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 13:52:18 -0000 --f403045cf3d6519d95055136cfeb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 17:48, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > Andy Bierman writes: > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund < > mbj@tail-f.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hi, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> > > > Hi, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG Module > Library > > > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another RFC. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG > library, is > > > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module > basis. > > > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules are > > > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has been > > > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores (most > recent > > > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I get that. > > > >> > This can easily be an augment. > > > >> > > > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules listed are > > > >> available in all datastores. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > What does this even mean? > > > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datastores. > > > > The client MUST understand both of them, > > > > > > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment if > > > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everything > is > > > defined in one module. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. > > > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. > > > > But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such servers. > > > > > > yes they can -- if it is designed correctly > > > > > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed > > > to sync the schema trees between client and server. > > > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. > > > > But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD, > if I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain modules > that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. > > > > > > lumping all info related to YANG modules in one module is poor cohesion. > > Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-mandatory.yang?) > > is even worse cohesion. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality > > > contain the YANG modules for that functionality. > > > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a > co-author) > > > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. > > > > > > > > > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that don't > > > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. > > > > > > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores module. > > > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCONF. > > > No need for new protocol.s. > > > > > > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" just > fine. > > > > It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't > implemented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment doesn't > change this. > > > > > > There is never any expectation that functionality added to a server > after the client is coded > > I guess you are talking about how your clients are coded. If it was so in > general, what's then the point of providing YANG library as state data? > > > and deployed will be supported. The only expectation is that the > modules used by > > the client continue to work. There are exceptions (i.e., when the update > rules in RFC 7950 are broken) > > but in general this works. > > > > RFC 6244 describes the data model as "a contract between the clent and > server", and further says: "A client knows how to create valid data for the > server, and knows what data will be sent from the server." > > But what is the value of such a contract if either party works with a > different spec? > > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update rules should be ignored or not. If the server implements a modules (e.g. ietf-system) then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the module needs to be republished with a new name. > Lada > Andy > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG module > > > >> library. > > > >> > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this > node > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where > datastores > > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> /martin > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called > ietf-datastores. > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > /martin > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Andy > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > > >> > > > config false; > > > >> > > > description > > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this > server."; > > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > >> > > > type identityref { > > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > description > > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to > the YANG > > > >> > > module > > > >> > > > library. > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that > something > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of > datastores. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What protocol > is > > > >> "this > > > >> > > > server"? > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores > are > > > >> > > accessible > > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen < > kwatsen@juniper.net> > > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG > Library to > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt > this > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > > >> > > > > Kent > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted > to the > > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management > server > > > >> > > (e.g., > > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). > Simple > > > >> caching > > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval > > > >> of > > > >> > > > > this information. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the > time of > > > >> > > > > submission > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > --f403045cf3d6519d95055136cfeb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <= lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

> On 2 Jun 2017, at 17:48, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
>
> > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaw= orks.com> writes:
> >
> > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Andy Bierman <a= ndy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund = <mbj@tail-f.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hi,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > Hi,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container= to the YANG Module Library
> > >> > > > This new container can be in its own modu= le, in another RFC.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revisi= on of YANG library, is
> > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on = a per-module basis.
> > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client wh= ich modules are
> > >> > > implemented in the different datastores.=C2=A0= This addition has been
> > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-= datastores (most recent
> > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01).
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > I get that.
> > >> > This can easily be an augment.
> > >>
> > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doe= sn't
> > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all module= s listed are
> > >> available in all datastores.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > What does this even mean?
> > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and ietf-datast= ores.
> > > The client MUST understand both of them,
> >
> > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment= if
> > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if everyt= hing is
> > defined in one module.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101.
> > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD.
>
> But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such s= ervers.
>
>
> yes they can -- if it is designed correctly
>
>
>
> >
> > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed
> > to sync the schema trees between client and server.
> > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module.
>
> But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With RD,= if I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain modules = that are not implemented in running but elsewhere.
>
>
> lumping all info related to YANG modules in one module is poor cohesio= n.
> Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-mandatory.yang?)
> is even worse cohesion.
>
>
>
> >
> > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality<= br> > > contain the YANG modules for that functionality.
> > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a = co-author)
> > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. > >
> >
> > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that do= n't
> > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers.<= br> > >
> > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores mod= ule.
> > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and RESTCO= NF.
> > No need for new protocol.s.
> >
> > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old= datastores" just fine.
>
> It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't = implemented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment= doesn't change this.
>
>
> There is never any expectation that functionality added to a server af= ter the client is coded

I guess you are talking about how your clients are coded. If it was so in g= eneral, what's then the point of providing YANG library as state data?<= br>
> and deployed will be supported.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The only expectation is th= at the modules used by
> the client continue to work. There are exceptions (i.e., when the upda= te rules in RFC 7950 are broken)
> but in general this works.
>

RFC 6244 describes the data model as "a contract between the clent and= server", and further says: "A client knows how to create valid d= ata for the server, and knows what data will be sent from the server."=

But what is the value of such a contract if either party works with a diffe= rent spec?



Let's not re-open t= he long debate about whether YANG module update rules
should be i= gnored or not.=C2=A0 If the server implements a modules (e.g. ietf-system)<= /div>
then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the = module needs
to be republished with a new name.

=C2=A0
Lada

Andy
=C2=A0

>
>
> Lada
>
>
>
> Andy
>
> >
> >
> > Lada
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into = the YANG module
> > >> library.
> > >>
> > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements.= =C2=A0 It has
> > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores sup= ported by the
> > >> server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer true= .=C2=A0 So adding this crucial
> > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > >>
> > >>
> > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by aug= ment
> > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node.
> > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but= this node
> > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where = datastores
> > > are irrelevant.
> > >
> > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info.
> > > The datastore info is not conformance data.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> /martin
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft call= ed ietf-datastores.
> > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the ne= w datastores.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for data= store info?
> > >
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > /martin
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Andy
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datastores {=
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config false;<= br> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "I= dentifies which datastores are supported by this server.";
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list data= store {
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type id= entityref {
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = base ds:datastore;
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 descrip= tion
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = "A datastore supported by this server.";
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subt= ree is related to the YANG
> > >> > > module
> > >> > > > library.
> > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modul= es-state subtree.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is = not obvious that something
> > >> > > > called the YANG module library would cont= ain a list of datastores.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore li= st in
> > >> /netconf-state/datastores
> > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 yea= rs.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by thi= s server".=C2=A0 What protocol is
> > >> "this
> > >> > > > server"?
> > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and = not all datastores are
> > >> > > accessible
> > >> > > > in all protocols?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Andy
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Wa= tsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>=
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been poste= d, to update YANG Library to
> > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft= .
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider ini= tiating a poll to adopt this
> > >> > > > > draft as a WG item?
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > > > Kent
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-n= etconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by K= ent Watsen and posted to the
> > >> > > > > IETF repository.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> > >> > > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 00
> > >> > > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
> > >> > > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
> > >> > > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 Individual Submission
> > >> > > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 15
> > >> > > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > >> > > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/
> > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netco= nf-
> > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00
> > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-r= fc7895bis-00
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Abstract:
> > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes= a YANG library that provides information
> > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG modu= les used by a network management server
> > >> > > (e.g.,
> > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configuration= Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple
> > >> caching
> > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are provided= to allow clients to minimize retrieval
> > >> of
> > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a coupl= e of minutes from the time of
> > >> > > > > submission
> > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff = are available at
> > >> tools.ietf.org.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > _______________________________= ________________
> > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > >> > > > > = Netconf@ietf.org
> > >> > > > > https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Netconf mailing list
> > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/netconf
> >
> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67






--f403045cf3d6519d95055136cfeb-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 06:56:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B8212950A for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 06:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ODaSF7lZFx0Y for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 06:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5907B1294F7 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 06:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:a84e:8d8:ae0c:ab31] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:a84e:8d8:ae0c:ab31]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A207762385; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 15:56:23 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1496670983; bh=g9qey01Ib/QC4+t0bZ6hdR3plahtffik7qkAvLcxIJg=; h=From:Date:To; b=crOJMKms99CPSzEDavVDoRMni9ye9AAebd4CCKYvIwB1t07h8j0QTSBFMiZY38rDZ ZpouaY+emoeSztYcwGVg+r9qku/0zxrgEpcjSbc50kqoEVN8f2mge6IV1EzAbYe/77 RI5bjOP+qZ40/8AbdzzCN9W34U6PYA8IPd82b08o= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 15:56:23 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9445835D-44EC-4860-970A-60E0114F016D@nic.cz> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 13:56:29 -0000 > On 5 Jun 2017, at 15:52, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >=20 > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 17:48, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: > > > > > On 2 Jun 2017, at 16:55, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: > > > Andy Bierman writes: > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 3:04 AM, Martin Bjorklund = wrote: > > > > > > > >> Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Martin Bjorklund = > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hi, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > > >> > > > Hi, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > This appears to add 1 top-level container to the YANG = Module Library > > > >> > > > This new container can be in its own module, in another = RFC. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > The main addition, which requires a new revision of YANG = library, is > > > >> > > the leaf-list datastore which is specified on a per-module = basis. > > > >> > > This allows the server to inform the client which modules = are > > > >> > > implemented in the different datastores. This addition has = been > > > >> > > discussed in the previous versions of revised-datastores = (most recent > > > >> > > is section D.2 in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-01). > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > I get that. > > > >> > This can easily be an augment. > > > >> > > > >> If it is just an augment it means that a client that doesn't > > > >> understand the augment is led to believe that all modules = listed are > > > >> available in all datastores. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > What does this even mean? > > > > The server advertises both ietf-yang-library and = ietf-datastores. > > > > The client MUST understand both of them, > > > > > > What is then the benefit of combining the two modules via augment = if > > > both are required? It would be much more comprehensible if = everything is > > > defined in one module. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is basic coupling and cohesion 101. > > > The RD module is only required for servers that implement RD. > > > > But clients that don't support RD cannot reliably work with such = servers. > > > > > > yes they can -- if it is designed correctly > > > > > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains the conformance data needed > > > to sync the schema trees between client and server. > > > Only data related to this purpose should be in this module. > > > > But, as Martin wrote, we currently have only one schema tree. With = RD, if I understand it correctly, YANG library is expected to contain = modules that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. > > > > > > lumping all info related to YANG modules in one module is poor = cohesion. > > Lumping all mandatory stuff together (ietf-mandatory.yang?) > > is even worse cohesion. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a developer, I prefer that the RFC defining the functionality > > > contain the YANG modules for that functionality. > > > The new YANG library (that I was obviously not consulted on as a = co-author) > > > does not even explain how to use the new data additions at all. > > > > > > > > > Either way, this means a new protocol because the clients that = don't > > > understand RD won't be able to work will RD-enabled servers. > > > > > > No -- An RD-enabled server will implement the ietf-datastores = module. > > > This is just another YANG module available via NETCONF and = RESTCONF. > > > No need for new protocol.s. > > > > > > An "old client" will still be able to use the "old datastores" = just fine. > > > > It won't because YANG library may contain modules that aren't = implemented in "old datastores". Adding the leaf-list via augment = doesn't change this. > > > > > > There is never any expectation that functionality added to a server = after the client is coded >=20 > I guess you are talking about how your clients are coded. If it was so = in general, what's then the point of providing YANG library as state = data? >=20 > > and deployed will be supported. The only expectation is that the = modules used by > > the client continue to work. There are exceptions (i.e., when the = update rules in RFC 7950 are broken) > > but in general this works. > > >=20 > RFC 6244 describes the data model as "a contract between the clent and = server", and further says: "A client knows how to create valid data for = the server, and knows what data will be sent from the server." >=20 > But what is the value of such a contract if either party works with a = different spec? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update = rules > should be ignored or not. If the server implements a modules (e.g. = ietf-system) > then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the = module needs > to be republished with a new name. I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may assume = that the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but it = won't be the case because some of them may not be implemented in running = after RD is added. Lada >=20 > =20 > Lada >=20 > Andy > =20 >=20 > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG = module > > > >> library. > > > >> > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by = the > > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this = crucial > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but = this node > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where = datastores > > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> /martin > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called = ietf-datastores. > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new = datastores. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore = info? > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > /martin > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Andy > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > > >> > > > config false; > > > >> > > > description > > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by = this server."; > > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > >> > > > type identityref { > > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > description > > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > } > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related = to the YANG > > > >> > > module > > > >> > > > library. > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state = subtree. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that = something > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of = datastores. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What = protocol is > > > >> "this > > > >> > > > server"? > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all = datastores are > > > >> > > accessible > > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen = > > > >> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG = Library to > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to = adopt this > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > > >> > > > > Kent > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, = draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and = posted to the > > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides = information > > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network = management server > > > >> > > (e.g., > > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). = Simple > > > >> caching > > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize = retrieval > > > >> of > > > >> > > > > this information. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from = the time of > > > >> > > > > submission > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jun 5 08:08:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA18129B05 for ; 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Mon, 05 Jun 2017 08:08:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 08:08:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9445835D-44EC-4860-970A-60E0114F016D@nic.cz> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> <9445835D-44EC-4860-970A-60E0114F016D@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 08:08:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11471eb25e3a06055137e0ec" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 15:08:38 -0000 --001a11471eb25e3a06055137e0ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > .... > > > > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update rules > > should be ignored or not. If the server implements a modules (e.g. > ietf-system) > > then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the module > needs > > to be republished with a new name. > > I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may assume > that the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but it won't > be the case because some of them may not be implemented in running after RD > is added. > > I thought running stays the same and intended is extra. You think people are going to deploy RD and break every single existing client application they use? Lada > > Andy > > > > > > Lada > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG > module > > > > >> library. > > > > >> > > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this crucial > > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but this > node > > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where > datastores > > > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> /martin > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called > ietf-datastores. > > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new datastores. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore info? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > /martin > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Andy > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > > > >> > > > config false; > > > > >> > > > description > > > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by this > server."; > > > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > > >> > > > type identityref { > > > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > description > > > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related to > the YANG > > > > >> > > module > > > > >> > > > library. > > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that > something > > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of > datastores. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What > protocol is > > > > >> "this > > > > >> > > > server"? > > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all datastores > are > > > > >> > > accessible > > > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen < > kwatsen@juniper.net> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG > Library to > > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to > adopt this > > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > > > >> > > > > Kent > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted > to the > > > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > > > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network > management server > > > > >> > > (e.g., > > > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). > Simple > > > > >> caching > > > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > > > this information. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the > time of > > > > >> > > > > submission > > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > --001a11471eb25e3a06055137e0ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=
....
>
> Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update= rules
> should be ignored or not.=C2=A0 If the server implements a modules (e.= g. ietf-system)
> then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the modul= e needs
> to be republished with a new name.

I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may assume th= at the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but it won'= t be the case because some of them may not be implemented in running after = RD is added.



I thought running stays= the same and intended is extra.
You think people are going to de= ploy RD and break every single
existing client application they u= se?=C2=A0

Lada


Andy
=C2=A0
>
>
> Lada
>
> Andy
>
>
> >
> >
> > Lada
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lada
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD = into the YANG module
> > > >> library.
> > > >>
> > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implemen= ts.=C2=A0 It has
> > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastore= s supported by the
> > > >> server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no longer= true.=C2=A0 So adding this crucial
> > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense i= mo.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list b= y augment
> > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node.=
> > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1= , but this node
> > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) w= here datastores
> > > > are irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info.=
> > > > The datastore info is not conformance data.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> /martin
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft= called ietf-datastores.
> > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about t= he new datastores.
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for= datastore info?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > /martin
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Andy
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container datasto= res {
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 config fa= lse;
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 descripti= on
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &q= uot;Identifies which datastores are supported by this server.";
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf-list= datastore {
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ty= pe identityref {
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }<= br> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 de= scription
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 "A datastore supported by this server.";
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG= subtree is related to the YANG
> > > >> > > module
> > > >> > > > library.
> > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /= modules-state subtree.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since i= t is not obvious that something
> > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would= contain a list of datastores.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datasto= re list in
> > > >> /netconf-state/datastores
> > > >> > > > since that's where its been for = 7 years.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported b= y this server".=C2=A0 What protocol is
> > > >> "this
> > > >> > > > server"?
> > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols= and not all datastores are
> > > >> > > accessible
> > > >> > > > in all protocols?
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Andy
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Ke= nt Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been = posted, to update YANG Library to
> > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores = draft.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly conside= r initiating a poll to adopt this
> > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item?
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > > >> > > > > Kent
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmd= sdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted= by Kent Watsen and posted to the
> > > >> > > > > IETF repository.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> > > >> > > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A000
> > > >> > > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
> > > >> > > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30=
> > > >> > > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
> > > >> > > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 15
> > > >> > > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > >> > > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/
> > > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt= -netconf-
> > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00
> > > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-<= wbr>rfc7895bis-00
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Abstract:
> > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document desc= ribes a YANG library that provides information
> > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the YANG= modules used by a network management server
> > > >> > > (e.g.,
> > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Configur= ation Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple
> > > >> caching
> > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms are pro= vided to allow clients to minimize retrieval
> > > >> of
> > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this information.<= br> > > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a = couple of minutes from the time of
> > > >> > > > > submission
> > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and = diff are available at
> > > >> tools.ietf.org.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > ______________________________<= wbr>_________________
> > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > >> > > > > https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/netconf
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >
> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67






--001a11471eb25e3a06055137e0ec-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 09:01:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A100C1294FA for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zcWmSp0QfSux for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32038127369 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:ffff:ffff:ffff:10] (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:ffff:ffff:ffff:10]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C89C162530; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 18:01:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1496678481; bh=40KXQA4LUACoZAPG60ngqWnde/KtwD8Caz1WQFtfIVA=; h=From:Date:To; b=ast5YQxxwJpBf8D/nBGFtbrIXWY4fOX+/y5SleO5oVYJ/rgNFlPZa9E1vlp3B2y59 UhK2YBXQB+VGyCNlJXMYUpvissJOll+L+Waj6AvLhKf157anCsXF35AMV5LeSOjiKQ 6B3a9YxRaW1zmWErjWv6T/dLMizVs4mneP4xLHqQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 18:01:21 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> <9445835D-44EC-4860-970A-60E0114F016D@nic.cz> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 16:01:26 -0000 > On 5 Jun 2017, at 17:08, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 > .... > > > > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update = rules > > should be ignored or not. If the server implements a modules (e.g. = ietf-system) > > then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the = module needs > > to be republished with a new name. >=20 > I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may = assume that the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but = it won't be the case because some of them may not be implemented in = running after RD is added. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I thought running stays the same and intended is extra. Running may stay the same but the "module" list in YANG library might = contain entries that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. At = least that's how I understand draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. > You think people are going to deploy RD and break every single > existing client application they use? Honestly, I think that with the RD and schema-mount combo we are getting = on a steep slippery slope, and I basically agree with what Tom Petch = wrote earlier in this thread. Lada > =20 >=20 > Lada >=20 >=20 > Andy > =20 > > > > > > Lada > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG = module > > > > >> library. > > > > >> > > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It = has > > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by = the > > > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this = crucial > > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by = augment > > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but = this node > > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where = datastores > > > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> /martin > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called = ietf-datastores. > > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new = datastores. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore = info? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > /martin > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Andy > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > > > >> > > > config false; > > > > >> > > > description > > > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by = this server."; > > > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > > >> > > > type identityref { > > > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > description > > > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > } > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related = to the YANG > > > > >> > > module > > > > >> > > > library. > > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state = subtree. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious = that something > > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of = datastores. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What = protocol is > > > > >> "this > > > > >> > > > server"? > > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all = datastores are > > > > >> > > accessible > > > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen = > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG = Library to > > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to = adopt this > > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > > > >> > > > > Kent > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, = draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and = posted to the > > > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that = provides information > > > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network = management server > > > > >> > > (e.g., > > > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) = server). Simple > > > > >> caching > > > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to = minimize retrieval > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > > > this information. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from = the time of > > > > >> > > > > submission > > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jun 5 09:52:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F45A120727 for ; 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Mon, 05 Jun 2017 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:52:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <503F15AB-F911-4D28-A371-3C57DD3A8798@nic.cz> <9445835D-44EC-4860-970A-60E0114F016D@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:52:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147131876802e0551395512" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 16:52:57 -0000 --001a1147131876802e0551395512 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > On 5 Jun 2017, at 17:08, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > .... > > > > > > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module update > rules > > > should be ignored or not. If the server implements a modules (e.g. > ietf-system) > > > then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the > module needs > > > to be republished with a new name. > > > > I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may assume > that the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but it won't > be the case because some of them may not be implemented in running after RD > is added. > > > > > > > > I thought running stays the same and intended is extra. > > Running may stay the same but the "module" list in YANG library might > contain entries that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. At least > that's how I understand draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. > > > You think people are going to deploy RD and break every single > > existing client application they use? > > Honestly, I think that with the RD and schema-mount combo we are getting > on a steep slippery slope, and I basically agree with what Tom Petch wrote > earlier in this thread. > > If done correctly, then existing clients will still be able to function with their old view of the world. Brand new protocols and datastores like I2RS are not supported by old clients. An old client uses for config=false and does not know or care about intended vs. applied or operational values of config=true nodes. Lada > > Andy > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to throw RD into the YANG > module > > > > > >> library. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server implements. It has > > > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all datastores supported by the > > > > > >> server". With RD this is no longer true. So adding this > crucial > > > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese sense imo. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-list by augment > > > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory node. > > > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-elements 1, but > this node > > > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-types) where > datastores > > > > > > are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance info. > > > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> /martin > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD draft called > ietf-datastores. > > > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info about the new > datastores. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct module for datastore > info? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > /martin > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Andy > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > container datastores { > > > > > >> > > > config false; > > > > > >> > > > description > > > > > >> > > > "Identifies which datastores are supported by > this server."; > > > > > >> > > > leaf-list datastore { > > > > > >> > > > type identityref { > > > > > >> > > > base ds:datastore; > > > > > >> > > > } > > > > > >> > > > description > > > > > >> > > > "A datastore supported by this server."; > > > > > >> > > > } > > > > > >> > > > } > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level YANG subtree is related > to the YANG > > > > > >> > > module > > > > > >> > > > library. > > > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to the /modules-state subtree. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people since it is not obvious that > something > > > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library would contain a list of > datastores. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the datastore list in > > > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores > > > > > >> > > > since that's where its been for 7 years. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Also the text says "supported by this server". What > protocol is > > > > > >> "this > > > > > >> > > > server"? > > > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple protocols and not all > datastores are > > > > > >> > > accessible > > > > > >> > > > in all protocols? > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Andy > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Kent Watsen < > kwatsen@juniper.net> > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG > Library to > > > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datastores draft. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to > adopt this > > > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item? > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Thanks, > > > > > >> > > > > Kent > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > >> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and > posted to the > > > > > >> > > > > IETF repository. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > > > > > >> > > > > Revision: 00 > > > > > >> > > > > Title: YANG Module Library > > > > > >> > > > > Document date: 2017-05-30 > > > > > >> > > > > Group: Individual Submission > > > > > >> > > > > Pages: 15 > > > > > >> > > > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > > > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt > > > > > >> > > > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/ > > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/ > draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > > > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > >> > > > > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > > > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Abstract: > > > > > >> > > > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > > > > > >> > > > > about all the YANG modules used by a network > management server > > > > > >> > > (e.g., > > > > > >> > > > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). > Simple > > > > > >> caching > > > > > >> > > > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> > > > > this information. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from > the time of > > > > > >> > > > > submission > > > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > > > >> tools.ietf.org. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > >> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Netconf mailing list > > > > > > Netconf@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > --001a1147131876802e0551395512 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <<= a href=3D"mailto:lhotka@nic.cz" target=3D"_blank">lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

> On 5 Jun 2017, at 17:08, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
>
> ....
> >
> > Let's not re-open the long debate about whether YANG module u= pdate rules
> > should be ignored or not.=C2=A0 If the server implements a module= s (e.g. ietf-system)
> > then it better work the same after RD is added. If not, then the = module needs
> > to be republished with a new name.
>
> I think the problem at hand is exactly the opposite: A client may assu= me that the server implements all modules listed in YANG library but it won= 't be the case because some of them may not be implemented in running a= fter RD is added.
>
>
>
> I thought running stays the same and intended is extra.

Running may stay the same but the "module" list in YANG library m= ight contain entries that are not implemented in running but elsewhere. At = least that's how I understand draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.<= br>
> You think people are going to deploy RD and break every single
> existing client application they use?

Honestly, I think that with the RD and schema-mount combo we are getting on= a steep slippery slope, and I basically agree with what Tom Petch wrote ea= rlier in this thread.


If done correctly, then existing clien= ts will still be able to function with
their old view of the worl= d.=C2=A0 Brand new protocols and datastores like I2RS
are not sup= ported by old clients. An old client uses <get> for config=3Dfalse
and does not know or care about intended vs. applied or operational= values
of config=3Dtrue nodes.


Lada



Andy
=C2=A0
>
>
> Lada
>
>
> Andy
>
> >
> >
> > Lada
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lada
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lada
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> > IMO it is really poor cohesion to to thro= w RD into the YANG module
> > > > >> library.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But YANG library lists the models a server imp= lements.=C2=A0 It has
> > > > >> implicitly meant "implemented in all data= stores supported by the
> > > > >> server".=C2=A0 =C2=A0With RD this is no l= onger true.=C2=A0 So adding this crucial
> > > > >> piece of information in YANG library makese se= nse imo.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > But RD is optional to implement. Adding the leaf-l= ist by augment
> > > > > does not change anything. This is not a mandatory = node.
> > > > > It is a leaf-list so it would have to be min-eleme= nts 1, but this node
> > > > > will be empty for some modules (like ietf-yang-typ= es) where datastores
> > > > > are irrelevant.
> > > > >
> > > > > The YANG module library contains YANG conformance = info.
> > > > > The datastore info is not conformance data.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> /martin
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > Andy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > There is already a YANG module in the RD = draft called ietf-datastores.
> > > > >> > That is the natural place to find info ab= out the new datastores.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > So why isn't ietf-datastores the correct modul= e for datastore info?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > /martin
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Andy
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container da= tastores {
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 conf= ig false;
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 desc= ription
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 "Identifies which datastores are supported by this server.";<= br> > > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf= -list datastore {
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 type identityref {
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 base ds:datastore;
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 }
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 description
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 "A datastore supported by this server.";
> > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 } > > > > >> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > I do not see why this top-level= YANG subtree is related to the YANG
> > > > >> > > module
> > > > >> > > > library.
> > > > >> > > > It is not linked in any way to = the /modules-state subtree.
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > IMO this will confuse people si= nce it is not obvious that something
> > > > >> > > > called the YANG module library = would contain a list of datastores.
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > One might expect to find the da= tastore list in
> > > > >> /netconf-state/datastores
> > > > >> > > > since that's where its been= for 7 years.
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > Also the text says "suppor= ted by this server".=C2=A0 What protocol is
> > > > >> "this
> > > > >> > > > server"?
> > > > >> > > > What if there are multiple prot= ocols and not all datastores are
> > > > >> > > accessible
> > > > >> > > > in all protocols?
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > Andy
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 11:39 A= M, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.n= et>
> > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > A proposed rfc7895bis has = been posted, to update YANG Library to
> > > > >> > > > > support the revised-datast= ores draft.
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Would the chairs kindly co= nsider initiating a poll to adopt this
> > > > >> > > > > draft as a WG item?
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >> > > > > Kent
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----=
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > A new version of I-D, draf= t-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > > >> > > > > has been successfully subm= itted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
> > > > >> > > > > IETF repository.
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
> > > > >> > > > > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A000
> > > > >> > > > > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
> > > > >> > > > > Document date:=C2=A0 2017-= 05-30
> > > > >> > > > > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
> > > > >> > > > > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
> > > > >> > > > > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-
> > > > >> > > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00.txt
> > > > >> > > > > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > > > >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-
> > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis/
> > > > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nm= dsdt-netconf-
> > > > >> > > > > rfc7895bis-00
> > > > >> > > > > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> > > > >> > > > > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netc= onf-rfc7895bis-00
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Abstract:
> > > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document= describes a YANG library that provides information
> > > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 about all the= YANG modules used by a network management server
> > > > >> > > (e.g.,
> > > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a Network Con= figuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple
> > > > >> caching
> > > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mechanisms ar= e provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this informat= ion.
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Please note that it may ta= ke a couple of minutes from the time of
> > > > >> > > > > submission
> > > > >> > > > > until the htmlized version= and diff are available at
> > > > >> tools.ietf.org.
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > __________________________= _____________________
> > > > >> > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > > >> > > > > Netconf@ietf.org
> > > > >> > > > > https:= //www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >>
> > > > > _____________________________________________= __
> > > > > Netconf mailing list
> > > > > Netconf@ietf.o= rg
> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<= wbr>listinfo/netconf
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >
> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
>
> --
> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67






--001a1147131876802e0551395512-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 10:04:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF074129B43 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:04:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h7jJgENcfIQD for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3plsmtpa07-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-05.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7879B120727 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPHLDJG5C ([73.211.20.104]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id HvPgdGVX2pzflHvPhdq4Eh; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 10:03:34 -0700 From: "Xiang Li" To: "'Sterne, Jason \(Nokia - CA/Ottawa\)'" , "'Netconf'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 12:03:36 -0500 Message-ID: <028001d2de1d$aceda900$06c8fb00$@seguesoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQFpbGA5d7yIlEfQMiEuiBdtpwd3UqLpUE+w Content-Language: en-us X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfMdshAC0uP7EMFG6AmD/p4Xpij/Cujfgp4Zn8cnXBObjImV/GHW1ApgIjCpG56NJelYBOnHpeiL1uBBv6HIvQJsTJj7iex79gfIYbr29gGtA/j9yl+Hm CQZvC5pSConbFwMFQ63deGl6wjMZBrf5ZYkMMPAIyt8l5Z0cKq/6YdxtsDFEKD0cXkCFguzpochtqnXNdU4Enhqs1SUEFCkLjXs= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] subtree filter for list within a list (with no key specified for the 1st list) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 17:04:07 -0000 Hi=20 I think with your filter string, the response might also be: test1 red test1 yellow That is, an implementation might choose to exclude 'k1' in the response because the existence of the sibling "second" in the subtree filter. I think if you want to make sure 'k1'(outer list's key) be included in = the response, the filter would have been: =20 test1 -Xiang From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sterne, = Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 6:14 PM To: Netconf Subject: [Netconf] subtree filter for list within a list (with no key specified for the 1st list) Hi all, I=92m uncertain about how to interpret a few statements in RFC6241 about subtree filtering (especially statements about nested elements and list content). If I have this model: ------------------------ list first { =A0=A0=A0 key =93k1=94; =A0=A0=A0 leaf k1 { type uint8; } =A0=A0=A0 list second { =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 key =93k2=94 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 leaf k2 { type string; } =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 leaf color { type string; } =A0=A0=A0 } } and this instance data in the server: ------------------------------------ =A0=A0 55 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test1 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 red =A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test2 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 blue =A0=A0 =A0=A0 88 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test1 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 yellow =A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test3 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 green =A0=A0 will this subtree filter: ------------------------------- =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0test1 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 return the following data ? ----------------------------- =A0=A0 55 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test1 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 red =A0=A0 =A0=A0 88 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 test1 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 yellow =A0=A0 (i.e. is a {*, value} match for keys of nested lists supported with = subtree filtering ?) I assume I could extend this further and have any combination of = =91wildcards=92 and specific values for keys across N embedded lists ?=A0 i.e. {*, = value, *, value, etc} In xpath this would be /first/second[k2=3D=92test1=92]=A0=A0 (no = predicate for k1) Rgds, Jason From nobody Mon Jun 5 10:28:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484A4129534 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:28:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HSaY5jxQcgJm for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01on0121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF239129B60 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 10:28:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=rwmPjseZnM4Nz91rRNw8JVIco0T2T0tS+hwaheX3MNQ=; b=iNUJIsQHks1j2aMFOcozz2KID+4ko3Ohcu4rlTjXicWMAZFna0Ho51wvPPXNeIaE95fX8NCzd8GKR8qYZLTlVcyoBTTYYQIZcJe/Z0vzFk/r04CFzB/g3Nb54ZXYs1UtA7Ky0zsjdUESVmIE4HmMEUdtaaCD7gxiSnLvTxH994I= Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.151) by BN3PR0501MB1395.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1157.9; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 17:28:02 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1157.010; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 17:28:02 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Should NC/RC-client models be groupings (not containers)? 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Mon, 5 Jun 2017 19:31:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 19:31:09 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "t.petch" Cc: Netconf Message-ID: <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "t.petch" , Netconf References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 17:31:16 -0000 On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:03:42PM +0100, t.petch wrote: > Andy > > I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get > more so:-( > > Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the > engineering > reality that YANG comes in YANG modules. A box will have datastores, a > box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to > modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores. In > relational terms, all very simple. Which RFC defines which is a > different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time. > > I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores, > albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG. > > And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the > IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled > together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have > been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to > tease out the different concepts. > Tom, this is not an IETF problem nor is it a YANG problem. Pretty much any computer technology I have seen requires careful maintenance when the technology sees active use that goes beyond the narrow scope of the initial design. Read the C language definition and compare it to how it looked like 30-40 years ago. Take early versions of HTTP and compare them to what we have today. I think the key challenge is to sharpen architectural concepts during the evolution of the technology in such a way that further evolution remains feasible or even becomes simpler. The networking world also has changed since the work on NETCONF (and a bit later YANG) started. While perhaps some things were foreseeable, others were likely not. We also punted a few issues during the design process that we knew were not finally resolved. For example, some of the debate how we deal with operational state was even documented in RFC 6244 (published six years ago) and we had more discussions around this issue when the interfaces model was written up. Could we have designed a 'perfect' data modeling language and supporting protocols before doing any implementations or deployments? Perhaps - if we would have managed to ever complete. Would we have been successful in terms of deployed running code? Most likely not. In order to create and grow an ecosystem around a technology, you need to start with something that offers value and is simple enough to get implemented and deployed. And once you have the seeds out, you need to carefully evolve the technology and grow the ecosystem around it. I do not see this as a 'general problem' - I see this is a successful path to introduce (and exploit) a new technology. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jun 5 13:43:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C22A12EB16 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lf9qwHKxNlMa for ; 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Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:43:19 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= , "Martin Bjorklund" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] ietf-tls-client@2017-03-13, some questions and comments Thread-Index: AdLZJHoqvQcGrWQQSX2+6K8ptz0IxQAKK0AAACS6YcAAAT2AgAAHHiOQAAVxPIAAJej4gAANyfKAACcvAyAApgKQgA== Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:43:19 +0000 Message-ID: <63D655B5-8919-4417-A339-C41C93F67D25@juniper.net> References: <97423DDE-A852-476C-AC87-7115043D3E34@juniper.net> <20170531.100803.1656646185181037402.mbj@tail-f.com> <82B35800-40E5-43B2-B63A-B6F8AFD8E350@juniper.net> <3014BD72-4E6B-4460-A0D8-B278589EC327@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: ericsson.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ericsson.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5AA22CAEF40BE34D984D6C548166B6A0@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jun 2017 20:43:19.8446 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1249 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] ietf-tls-client@2017-03-13, some questions and comments X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 20:43:23 -0000 DQoNCkhpIEJhbGF6cywNCg0KPj4gRldJVywgYm90aCBOQyAmIFJDIHJlcXVpcmUgdGhhdCB0aGUg VExTLWNsaWVudCBzZW5kcyBhIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlLA0KPg0KPiBTaG91bGQgdGhlbiB0aGUgJ211 c3QnIGV4cHJlc3Npb24gYmUgYWRkZWQgdG8gdGhlIE5DICYgUkMgbW9kdWxlcyANCj4gd2hlcmUg dGhlIGdyb3VwaW5nIGlzIHVzZWQ/DQoNCg0KVXBkYXRlZCBpbiBteSBsb2NhbCBjb3B5Lg0KDQpU aGFua3MsDQpLZW50DQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Jun 5 14:06:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD53C120454; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 14:05:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.52.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149669675574.3172.18193455633517784838.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 14:05:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 21:05:56 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I have a few minor comments, but this looks clear and plausible. In this text, 1. Finalize the YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism, which can be used to hold asymmetric private keys and certificates that are trusted by the system advertising support for this module. Based on the known dependencies this draft has the highest priority for the WG. I thought it might be helpful to say who has these dependencies, not in detail, but just at the "other working groups", "other SDOs", "open source community", "all of the above" level. I counted something like seven items that apply to both NETCONF and RESTCONF/HTTP2. Is the intention that these are two protocols that will continue to evolve, but in lockstep? I think you're headed that way, but I'm not sure. If so, saying that would be good. For all the other RFCs listed in the charter, the name of the RFC is also provided (sometimes the name is in parens, other times the RFC number is in parens, but they're always together), except for RFC 5277 which is invoked without providing its name. Could you adjust the first mention of RFC 5277 to match the others? From nobody Mon Jun 5 20:46:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9289A12EB92; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 20:46:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.53.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149672078853.4019.5198112663756820973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 20:46:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Ben Campbell's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 03:46:28 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Spencer's comments. Also, I have trouble suspending disbelief with those milestone dates. (Especially the ones in the past.) If those are real, it means the WG will be doing lots of work in parallel over the next couple of months. Is that reasonable? 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB4PR07MB0670; H:DB4PR07MB0509.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB4PR07MB0509A45AB1FC73855D3236D383CB0DB4PR07MB0509eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Jun 2017 14:55:22.6928 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB0670 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprPKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7jW7wYbNIg7+f5CymbrrN6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujPf71zEX/IqumD2vlamBsdG/i5GTQ0LAROLgpR2MXYxcHEIC RxglXq95wwrhHGeUOHNzNRtIFYtAL7PEvOfiEImpTBJnf82DqnrEKNFzZSITSBWbgKvE05k/ 2UFsEQFNicZZH1hBbGEBc4kLD1YA7eAAittIrNyfBFGiJ/Ht2XdmiAUqEsfe3wYr5xWIkTiz 4xmYzSggJvH91Bqw8cwC4hK3nsxngjhbQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/8DuYRToZpT4MO8aVJGCxKYF 79khbFmJS/O7wf6UEOhhlti6fxYbREJL4s3Jk1C2r8S8HyehGuokJlz8yAphZ0usP/0HKu4t sf3UdRaIQYdYJS4/mwO1TUbi48t+qEE3WSW6VthCfC8lcfdKJyOELSPx4s5eVoh38iV+dd1n msCoPgvJd7OQpGaBQ0NQ4uTMJywQcT2JG1OnsEHY2hLLFr5mhrB1JWb8O8SCLL6AkX0Vo2hx anFxbrqRsV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkmRmCyObjlt+4OxtWvHQ8xCnAwKvHwqh0wixRiTSwrrsw9 xCjBwawkwntrDVCINyWxsiq1KD++qDQntfgQozQHi5I4r8O+CxFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYO TqkGRjP1XMvTi/3/9Lc67M3asuZb0oMphsXnWGbvydNSfsE+aYq44tHQG8vdqgodU5VsQ71q PK5IOR3iO1ag3fKxevurY69vqgVJX+6KPxuo3rB+itT93wUzvjxYYMgi7LArrU0l+sxZ7kP5 X9681nDlXDjhZ/V6bsanLg/+PVWOeLZpmp/mOoFD/EosxRmJhlrMRcWJAOd8fjsyAwAA Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] ietf-tls/ssh groupings CA certs and peer certs X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 14:59:36 -0000 --_000_DB4PR07MB0509A45AB1FC73855D3236D383CB0DB4PR07MB0509eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In the 'server-auth' section TLS/SSH client models and the 'client-auth' se= ction of TLS/SSH server models there is usually a leaf pair defined for con= figuring both trusted-ca- or trusted-server/client certificates. For instan= ce, in the TLS client grouping: leaf trusted-ca-certs { type leafref { path "/ks:keystore/ks:trusted-certificates/ks:name"; } description "A reference to a list of certificate authority (CA) certificates used by the TLS client to authenticate TLS server certificates."; } leaf trusted-server-certs { type leafref { path "/ks:keystore/ks:trusted-certificates/ks:name"; } description "A reference to a list of server certificates used by the TLS client to authenticate TLS server certificates. A server certificate is authenticated if it is an exact match to a configured trusted server certificate."; } } I attempted to figure out how to enforce the rule "A server certificate is = authenticated if it is an exact match to a configured trusted server certif= icate" and the rule lately added by Kent mentioned in a recent mail "A serv= er certificate is authenticated if it has a valid chain of trust to a confi= gured trusted CA certificate." Is the TLS/SSH client/server implementation required to check whether the X= .509 certificate Basic Constraints field contains CA assertion or not befor= e accepting a certificate set as CA or client/server certs? https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280#section-4.2.1.9 I guess this could mean that a user of keystore can mix up different type o= f trusted certificates in keystore within one trusted-certificate list elem= ent, which later turns out to be invalid as leafrefs are set to them. Or is there any other hint how the above requirements shall be enforced? Sh= ould maybe the keystore model validate trusted certificate type (based on C= A boolean assertion) beforehand? Br, Bal=E1zs --_000_DB4PR07MB0509A45AB1FC73855D3236D383CB0DB4PR07MB0509eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

In the ‘server-auth’ section TLS/SSH cli= ent models and the ‘client-auth’ section of TLS/SSH server mode= ls there is usually a leaf pair defined for configuring both trusted-ca- or= trusted-server/client certificates. For instance, in the TLS client grouping:

 

         leaf trusted-ca-certs=
 {
           type leaf=
ref {
           &nbs=
p; path "/ks:keystore/ks:trusted-certificates/ks:name";
           }
           descripti=
on
           &nbs=
p; "A reference to a list of certificate authority (CA)

           &nbs=
p;  certificates used by the TLS client to authenticate

           &nbs=
p;  TLS server certificates.";


         }


 


         leaf trusted-server-c=
erts {


           type leaf=
ref {


           &nbs=
p; path "/ks:keystore/ks:trusted-certificates/ks:name";


           }


           descripti=
on


           &nbs=
p; "A reference to a list of server certificates used by

           &nbs=
p;  the TLS client to authenticate TLS server certificates.=



           &nbs=
p;  A server certificate is authenticated if it is an


           &nbs=
p;  exact match to a configured trusted server certificate.";


         }


       }


 


I attempted to figure out how to enforce the rule=
 “A server certificate is authenticated if it is an exact match to=
 a configured trusted server certificate” and the rule lately add=
ed by Kent mentioned in a recent mail “A server
 certificate is authenticated if it has a valid chain of trust to a configu=
red trusted CA certificate.”


 


Is the TLS/SSH client/server implementation requi=
red to check whether the X.509 certificate Basic Constraints field contains=
 CA assertion or not before accepting a certificate set as CA or client/ser=
ver certs?


https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280#section-4.2.1.9=



 


I guess this could mean that a user of keystore c=
an mix up different type of trusted certificates in keystore within one tru=
sted-certificate list element, which later turns out to be invalid as leafr=
efs are set to them.


 


Or is there any other hint how the above requirem=
ents shall be enforced? Should maybe the keystore model validate trusted ce=
rtificate type (based on CA boolean assertion) beforehand?


 


Br,


Bal=E1zs
--_000_DB4PR07MB0509A45AB1FC73855D3236D383CB0DB4PR07MB0509eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jun 6 08:03:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2A3129516; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZnubMtPAWRrH; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D27F712949F; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DON62696; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:03:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.42) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:02:28 +0100 Received: from DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.207]) by DGGEMA401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 23:02:21 +0800 From: Rohit R Ranade To: "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , Rohit pobbathi Thread-Topic: Output of /netconf-state/schemas in RFC 6022 Thread-Index: AdLe1d1Bsq+7wVbQQrm6fLRLB7cJrA== Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071DGGEMA502MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.5936C42D.023F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.207, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 37f10b4d62f0d4d48333ae03af1f45c2 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Output of /netconf-state/schemas in RFC 6022 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:03:15 -0000 --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071DGGEMA502MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, In RFC 6022 : 2.1.3. The /netconf-state/schemas Subtree The list of supported schema for the NETCONF server. In RFC 7950: Section 5.6.4 Announcing Conformance Information in NETCONF With this mechanism, a client can cache the supported modules for a server and only update the cache if the "module-set-id" value in the message changes. Whether "supported schema" , "supported module", "implemented module" all m= ean the same thing for YANG? RFC 6022 need to list both modules and sub-modules. So whether we need to e= xtend this rule to sub-modules? We need to list only those sub-modules of i= mplemented modules ? With Regards, Rohit --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071DGGEMA502MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

In RFC 6022 :

 

2.1.3. = ; The /netconf-state/schemas Subtree

 

   The list of supported schema for the NETCONF server.

 

In RFC 7950:

      Section 5.6.4 Announcing Conformance Information in NETCONF

 

   Wit= h this mechanism, a client can cache the supported modules for a

   ser= ver and only update the cache if the "module-set-id" value in the=

   <hello> message changes.

 

Whether “supported schema” , “supp= orted module”, “implemented module” all mean the same thi= ng for YANG?

 

RFC 6022 need to list both modules and sub-modules. = So whether we need to extend this rule to sub-modules? We need to list only= those sub-modules of implemented modules ?

 

With Regards,

Rohit

--_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071DGGEMA502MBXchi_-- From nobody Tue Jun 6 08:10:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D4A1294DF for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:10:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pTlRavdwc-pv for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04E3712949F for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DON63761; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:10:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.43) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 16:09:49 +0100 Received: from DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.207]) by DGGEMA402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.43]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 23:09:40 +0800 From: Rohit R Ranade To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RFC 6241 Encoding Query Thread-Index: AdLe1uj4B+K3iumtQQ+DmxUlsWz7qA== Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 15:09:40 +0000 Message-ID: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090DGGEMA502MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.5936C5E3.007C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.2.207, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: cd095fa0372558af569eb3fc7fa7487a Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] RFC 6241 Encoding Query X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:10:34 -0000 --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090DGGEMA502MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, RFC 6241 , 3. XML Considerations All NETCONF messages MUST be well-formed XML, encoded in UTF-8 [RFC3629]. If a peer receives an message that is not well- formed XML or not encoded in UTF-8, it SHOULD reply with a "malformed-message" error. In RFC 4741, there was no such restriction about the encoding. I tried sear= ching in ietf mail list about why this restriction was added but not very c= lear. We have a customer who would like to use GBK encoding . They want to use C= hinese characters for configurations / query. GBK encodes Chinese characters in 1-2 bytes, while UTF-8 may take 2,3 or 4 = bytes for the same characters. Can anyone shed some light on why such a restriction was placed in RFC 6241= . With Regards, Rohit --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090DGGEMA502MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

RFC 6241 , 3.  XML Co= nsiderations

 

All NETCONF mess= ages MUST be well-formed XML, encoded in UTF-8

   [RF= C3629].  If a peer receives an <rpc> message that is not well-

   for= med XML or not encoded in UTF-8, it SHOULD reply with a

   "malformed-message" error.

 

In RFC 4741, there was no such restriction about the= encoding. I tried searching in ietf mail list about why this restriction w= as added but not very clear.

 

We have a customer who would like to use GBK encodin= g .  They want to use Chinese characters for configurations / query.

GBK encodes Chinese characters in 1-2 bytes, while U= TF-8 may take 2,3 or 4 bytes for the same characters.

 

Can anyone shed some light on why such a restriction= was placed in RFC 6241.

 

With Regards,

Rohit

--_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090DGGEMA502MBXchi_-- From nobody Tue Jun 6 08:32:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23AE312944B for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0VTtFRAPA8kM for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB6F5129482 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F481F14; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:32:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 9MNN1H8LdT5T; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:31:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:32:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714AC2008C; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:32:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D688gWywoly1; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:32:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 989C020089; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:31:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id F23643F8F74F; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:31:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 17:31:58 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Rohit R Ranade Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170606153158.GA27845@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Rohit R Ranade , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094090@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] RFC 6241 Encoding Query X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 15:32:04 -0000 On Tue, Jun 06, 2017 at 03:09:40PM +0000, Rohit R Ranade wrote: > Hi All, > > RFC 6241 , 3. XML Considerations > > All NETCONF messages MUST be well-formed XML, encoded in UTF-8 > [RFC3629]. If a peer receives an message that is not well- > formed XML or not encoded in UTF-8, it SHOULD reply with a > "malformed-message" error. > > In RFC 4741, there was no such restriction about the encoding. I tried searching in ietf mail list about why this restriction was added but not very clear. > > We have a customer who would like to use GBK encoding . They want to use Chinese characters for configurations / query. > GBK encodes Chinese characters in 1-2 bytes, while UTF-8 may take 2,3 or 4 bytes for the same characters. > > Can anyone shed some light on why such a restriction was placed in RFC 6241. I guess this is there because (i) there is no negotiation of character encodings and (ii) UTF-8 is the default XML encoding (and popular anyway). Yes, this is a slight disadvantage for users of Chinese characters but then I am not sure how much of a disadvantage this really is (i.e., how much of the config data is really localized strings). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 6 09:02:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E43741292F5 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:01:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LQr3L8i_iJl5 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DF6E128D64 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id v111so49675087wrc.3 for ; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 09:01:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xYvWi6SboeditucMUQlfhJITlYlq3CsMPG24ySMVu30=; b=aeTsO1iVX1gNOYJ4UDm/6Z8Wwd5wBGRteU316+J5MJXbYsnaS5jz9SAwGWbFGQvanB 1dMnc9M55h5HeuS8LYsQBarobsX3EJIeuME0FBkm/lsTV36iJIVVzrjsdXOEue+6krWj GV6bNCg03rSKnI5EYB2+a0p7HwBzLkrDTv6mLAsAcRWlEBrLl2A1mVYWQbK0SsnkVnZ2 mwRvaP28tWYRCst2X+2MDEE6b0iD5eb3psQG4RB6Dijcm/uY8ftyUQsH5vkcN2igYTyV Ua229ktElZZjqYLGb2eE/sgI4W2rT4xTp8w7+yk6aK7xFmksgIvfpJ1lSYjunl68nMQB jfDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xYvWi6SboeditucMUQlfhJITlYlq3CsMPG24ySMVu30=; b=Wev6+VP7P2FzrbYObx098uNA//doUK1AnUvcp2MOhpLlNrXcKb1BDAEUKmeMCeynhX Qoh22Co9tfazVk7qgLYsgrHwdpbxZ/BG0zMhkxDUFWiAGRunoepczBRwMDBHk7LCYhsE V8n34sdluy56RGIf3D4I5TzM0PHjluwST/DM+hO4t6+65AsBiHpkAJeLSGUMJssWOO4R g2qwAqBTJkx02Rk7neGAVYwKo5bJxgkDPF7IWna5wVgbOrU5bz/f5XDXU7Pk60093IpT uwQPM+OBgUrkiwaJOrpQsGoSoEkGweIplopj5BzgHT2jT7DEfwFhS1+ZjiGgWG2ar0Sj Piiw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAd0evKfSJ47WG+gUHpYsGdc8Z3gB4LeCTHOa6vHa7RavymuZy3 Gam77SC/Ycg3PUJaQkbZUYAmi2sm2SSA X-Received: by 10.223.176.205 with SMTP id j13mr4566341wra.65.1496764914706; Tue, 06 Jun 2017 09:01:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.155.2 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:01:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6B094071@DGGEMA502-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 09:01:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Rohit R Ranade Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141c6c00dc8fb05514cbdf1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] Output of /netconf-state/schemas in RFC 6022 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 16:01:59 -0000 --001a1141c6c00dc8fb05514cbdf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Rohit R Ranade wrote: > Hi All, > > > > In RFC 6022 : > > > > *2.1.3. The /netconf-state/schemas Subtree* > > > > The list of *supported schema* for the NETCONF server. > this usage is general meaning all modules used by the server -- not the same as YANG > > > In RFC 7950: > > Section 5.6.4 *Announcing Conformance Information in NETCONF* > > > > With this mechanism, a client can cache *the supported modules* for a > > server and only update the cache if the "module-set-id" value in the > > message changes. > > > > Whether =E2=80=9Csupported schema=E2=80=9D , =E2=80=9Csupported module=E2= =80=9D, =E2=80=9Cimplemented module=E2=80=9D all > mean the same thing for YANG? > This probably means all modules used by the server -- not the same as implemented vs. imported. > > RFC 6022 need to list both modules and sub-modules. So whether we need to > extend this rule to sub-modules? We need to list only those sub-modules o= f > implemented modules ? > list all modules and submodules > > > With Regards, > > Rohit > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > --001a1141c6c00dc8fb05514cbdf1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 8:02 AM, Rohit R Ranade <rohitrranade@hua= wei.com> wrote:

Hi All,

=C2=A0

In RFC 6022 :

=C2=A0

2.1.3.=C2= =A0 The /netconf-state/schemas Subtree

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 The list of supported schema for the NETCONF server.



this usage is general mea= ning all modules used by the server -- not the same as YANG

<= /div>
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

In RFC 7950:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 5.6.4 Announcing Conformance Information in NETCONF<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Wit= h this mechanism, a client can cache the supported modules for a

=C2=A0=C2=A0 ser= ver and only update the cache if the "module-set-id" value in the=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 <hello> message changes.

=C2=A0

Whether =E2=80=9Csupported schema=E2=80=9D , =E2=80= =9Csupported module=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cimplemented module=E2=80=9D all mean= the same thing for YANG?


<= br>
This probably means all modules used by the server -- not the= same as implemented vs. imported.


<= u>

=C2=A0

RFC 6022 need to list both modules and sub-modules. = So whether we need to extend this rule to sub-modules? We need to list only= those sub-modules of implemented modules ?



list all modules and submodules
= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

With Regards,

Rohit



Andy
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________ netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
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--001a1141c6c00dc8fb05514cbdf1-- From nobody Tue Jun 6 12:08:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C93112952D; Tue, 6 Jun 2017 12:07:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.53.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149677607911.3993.1992285611026017018.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 12:07:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Adam Roach's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2017 19:08:02 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt that the text "The NETCONF WG recently finalized..." will age gracefully. Suggest s/recently finalized/published/ From nobody Wed Jun 7 07:08:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BBD51279E5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 07:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jL8M8Fz2UAj4 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 07:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3508127735 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 07:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD86F6B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id S4-Ff8-gryAV for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6912008C for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5_Bc76shd1v; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E8520089; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 851993FA0B67; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:08:35 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:08:40 -0000 Hi, assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 7 07:44:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DB0012EC8B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0y8hhQVPD6Fh for ; 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Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:44:55 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module Thread-Index: AQHS35eUnGTQUc+mX0GcwP2JXHyMgaIZNwIA Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 14:44:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: jacobs-university.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;jacobs-university.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1427; 7:up7Gpy39+Q0B/L4pG0DAG+0UMxTX83cLLw03oHzi8YpEhXNB8dOef0Ko9HuEkQ52/y2102xLRzzEe5SuMgqkb13zJ7PIWlhWG+b9agm8kNxeKcePS+FexICEPWB0Rq4euSXDLLdn4YDGHr5B+hYVROKfpIfxDKEIIeaaRq23HAcEL6DDRdxt2gAqHMskUb9KXfsx4xrQb6XJMwPZnqeo5duVVHLAS/JGIZDcnerdY30S4Xxv1yNJ7VRrexJXrQSrKvlhH1IzI0HrVCdRosp0NKS3g5O0J4HGwVy75TUrZp4DYdD983CP/BE0U+mpbeLlSzSgu2PPTQidF6deiTvgzQ== x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN3PR0501MB1427: x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3d8bea5b-3943-433d-4bf6-08d4adb3c32c x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1427; H:BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <36F2E48485B20545BB9DD9F3F90E882B@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jun 2017 14:44:55.0743 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1427 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 14:44:58 -0000 aHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL3JmYzgwNDAjc2VjdGlvbi0zLjUuMy4xOg0KDQog ICBhcGktcGF0aCA9IHJvb3QgKigiLyIgKGFwaS1pZGVudGlmaWVyIC8gbGlzdC1pbnN0YW5jZSkp DQogICByb290ID0gc3RyaW5nICA7OyByZXBsYWNlbWVudCBzdHJpbmcgZm9yIHsrcmVzdGNvbmZ9 DQogICBhcGktaWRlbnRpZmllciA9IFttb2R1bGUtbmFtZSAiOiJdIGlkZW50aWZpZXINCiAgIG1v ZHVsZS1uYW1lID0gaWRlbnRpZmllcg0KICAgbGlzdC1pbnN0YW5jZSA9IGFwaS1pZGVudGlmaWVy ICI9IiBrZXktdmFsdWUgKigiLCIga2V5LXZhbHVlKQ0KICAga2V5LXZhbHVlID0gc3RyaW5nICA7 OyBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCBjaGFycyBhcmUgcGVyY2VudC1lbmNvZGVkDQogICBzdHJpbmcgPSA8YW4g dW5xdW90ZWQgc3RyaW5nPg0KICAgaWRlbnRpZmllciA9IChBTFBIQSAvICJfIikNCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAqKEFMUEhBIC8gRElHSVQgLyAiXyIgLyAiLSIgLyAiLiIpDQoNCkxvb2tzIGxpa2Ug J2FwaS1pZGVudGlmaWVyJyBNVVNUIHJldHVybiAnaWRlbnRpZmllcicsIHNvIHRoZXJlJ3Mgbm8g d2F5IHRvLCBmb3IgaW5zdGFuY2UsIEdFVCAvZGF0YS9BOiAgW3RvIHJldHVybiB0aGUgZW50aXJl IG1vZHVsZSAnQSddDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgJ2xpc3QtaW5zdGFuY2UnIGNhbiBiZSB1c2Vk IGhlcmUsIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlc2UgYXJlIHRvcC1sZXZlbCBtb2R1bGUgY29udGFpbmVycyAobm90 IGxpc3RzKSB0aGF0IHlvdSBhcmUgZGVzY3JpYmluZy4NCg0KVGhpcyBwcm9ibGVtIHNlZW1zIGZh bWlsaWFyIHRvIHRoZSBjb2xsZWN0aW9ucyBwcm9ibGVtIGluIFJFU1RDT05GIC0gZ2V0dGluZyBh ICdsaXN0JyBub2RlIGhhcyB0byBnZW5lcmF0ZSBhIGZha2UgcGFyZW50LWNvbnRhaW5lciBpbiBK U09OLi4uDQoNCktlbnQNCg0KDQotLQ0KDQpIaSwNCg0KYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgSSBoYXZlIGEgWUFO RyBtb2R1bGUgQSB3aXRoIHR3byB0b3AtbGV2ZWwgY29udGFpbmVycyBBOmENCmFuZCBBOmIuIElz IHRoZXJlIGEgd2F5IHRvIHJldHJpZXZlIHRoZSBlbnRpcmUgbW9kdWxlIEEgd2l0aCBhIHNpbmds ZQ0KUkVDVENPTkYgcmVxdWVzdD8gSXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCBJIG5lZWQgYSBzZXBhcmF0ZSByZXF1 ZXN0IGZvciBlYWNoDQp0b3AtbGV2ZWwgbm9kZS4gSXMgdGhpcyBvYnNlcnZhdGlvbiBjb3JyZWN0 PyBJZiBzbywgaXMgdGhpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcNCnRoYXQgaGFzIHNob3duIHRvIGJlIHByb2JsZW1h dGljIGluIHByYWN0aWNlIGFuZCB3b3J0aCBmaXhpbmc/DQoNCi9qcw0KDQotLSANCkp1ZXJnZW4g U2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlciAgICAgICAgICAgSmFjb2JzIFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgQnJlbWVuIGdHbWJIDQpQ aG9uZTogKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzU4NyAgICAgICAgIENhbXB1cyBSaW5nIDEgfCAyODc1OSBCcmVt ZW4gfCBHZXJtYW55DQpGYXg6ICAgKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzEwMyAgICAgICAgIDxodHRwOi8vd3d3 LmphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5LmRlLz4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3Jn DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCg0KDQo= From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:01:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B460129443 for ; 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Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:01:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146ca7a3830f605516004f4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:01:57 -0000 --001a1146ca7a3830f605516004f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" hI, Why can't you just use the "select" query parameter? Andy On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-3.5.3.1: > > api-path = root *("/" (api-identifier / list-instance)) > root = string ;; replacement string for {+restconf} > api-identifier = [module-name ":"] identifier > module-name = identifier > list-instance = api-identifier "=" key-value *("," key-value) > key-value = string ;; constrained chars are percent-encoded > string = > identifier = (ALPHA / "_") > *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".") > > Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so there's no way > to, for instance, GET /data/A: [to return the entire module 'A'] > > I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these are > top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing. > > This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - > getting a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in JSON... > > Kent > > > -- > > Hi, > > assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a > and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single > RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each > top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something > that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing? > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1146ca7a3830f605516004f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
hI,

Why can't you just use the &quo= t;select" query parameter?


And= y


On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen &l= t;kwatsen@juniper.= net> wrote:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-3.5.3.1:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0api-path =3D root *("/" (api-identifier / list-insta= nce))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root =3D string=C2=A0 ;; replacement string for {+restconf} =C2=A0 =C2=A0api-identifier =3D [module-name ":"] identifier
=C2=A0 =C2=A0module-name =3D identifier
=C2=A0 =C2=A0list-instance =3D api-identifier "=3D" key-value *(&= quot;," key-value)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0key-value =3D string=C2=A0 ;; constrained chars are percent-en= coded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0string =3D <an unquoted string>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identifier =3D (ALPHA / "_")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *(ALPHA / DIGIT / &= quot;_" / "-" / ".")

Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so th= ere's no way to, for instance, GET /data/A:=C2=A0 [to return the entire= module 'A']

I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these a= re top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing.

This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - gettin= g a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in JSON...<= br>
Kent


--

Hi,

assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a
and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single
RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each
top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something
that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing?

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a1146ca7a3830f605516004f4-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:03:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CD512EC99 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:03:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZHTYhbQhkD5T for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x233.google.com (mail-wm0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 241631294DC for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x233.google.com with SMTP id x70so59887471wme.0 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:03:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=udU9qfnJ3I8G764s2uAZh4gt6JmeoOnOUej5kK0gS1s=; b=DrlHmnvCBrAEuHNPs+2B48p86plG7wsTjsqNSjIRkVUs8lxi/nC45lO1tB6Ivrx1I/ GdqXUlA5xfHiTjx9ZBTVJYt4DF7UkP4Pa15Fk4vii0014+HR41dvj3HAyIZ08JIDgPPt sOqziVfHy0VsOd+D9ML3hV/TNjRSkoGkHwo7Jh9WcIxWPrUTESRWNXRwOCqOron4AXiI oymlrcnBodiptaD+gQMVNdfflKlbyNaBK1TUZuDY/6JXyRM0uRgT4bFoitrkax6ZfPAf hT7GFoaXmEoZ9d3+5RJ9AaQE48f2T0oB8YrUgf8PXGPaQYuTwRUka+uUYjorDyCbdD0z d/sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=udU9qfnJ3I8G764s2uAZh4gt6JmeoOnOUej5kK0gS1s=; b=GM3Rxq0N/gqhFvnB2nFNtfTuFuC0et7wXkMCgmcpHklagUqb1tRf2EI0DXPWYDDHYZ yvS1JVatSv2FJVzCQR20Hn0Vv8q4S/lGcLukGIKhUIJ064zrSBDI29s7COTm+csBNx0k X5PZg4fvF90SaFnvRCthON21RuGEr7oZWiJqhErFMPzPnkdovLAAuEkmKXexJR34d8nM TiyEagoKnnVJBnRMDOCcH8KTrenMdWvYVZR+tKYXwMXVkQO0qfqhjUWTVEECUQD5G28h OVy16eV5fSEeqFWPHxxWc6FMbv7l9eiwdcmCUj7bwNQltTn7+T89A3APyGGt/ZZlOYXQ 5kOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBSD/t7J4cxb4h+neadCPdCMyc+/1NE85qSVKM8lA/vv2SarmcP B0/x0q1Ej539Zu+Q06wPGioRD0HtNmgN X-Received: by 10.28.229.144 with SMTP id c138mr84709wmh.60.1496847782711; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:03:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:03:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:03:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11471eb25f2acc0551600850" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:03:18 -0000 --001a11471eb25f2acc0551600850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" oops -- we renamed select to be called "fields" Andy On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > hI, > > Why can't you just use the "select" query parameter? > > > Andy > > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-3.5.3.1: >> >> api-path = root *("/" (api-identifier / list-instance)) >> root = string ;; replacement string for {+restconf} >> api-identifier = [module-name ":"] identifier >> module-name = identifier >> list-instance = api-identifier "=" key-value *("," key-value) >> key-value = string ;; constrained chars are percent-encoded >> string = >> identifier = (ALPHA / "_") >> *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".") >> >> Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so there's no way >> to, for instance, GET /data/A: [to return the entire module 'A'] >> >> I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these are >> top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing. >> >> This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - >> getting a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in JSON... >> >> Kent >> >> >> -- >> >> Hi, >> >> assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a >> and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single >> RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each >> top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something >> that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing? >> >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > > --001a11471eb25f2acc0551600850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
oops -- we renamed select to be called "fields"<= div>

Andy


On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:01= AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
hI,

Why can't = you just use the "select" query parameter?


Andy


On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen= <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#= section-3.5.3.1:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0api-path =3D root *("/" (api-identifier / list-insta= nce))
=C2=A0 =C2=A0root =3D string=C2=A0 ;; replacement string for {+restconf} =C2=A0 =C2=A0api-identifier =3D [module-name ":"] identifier
=C2=A0 =C2=A0module-name =3D identifier
=C2=A0 =C2=A0list-instance =3D api-identifier "=3D" key-value *(&= quot;," key-value)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0key-value =3D string=C2=A0 ;; constrained chars are percent-en= coded
=C2=A0 =C2=A0string =3D <an unquoted string>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0identifier =3D (ALPHA / "_")
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 *(ALPHA / DIGIT / &= quot;_" / "-" / ".")

Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so th= ere's no way to, for instance, GET /data/A:=C2=A0 [to return the entire= module 'A']

I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these a= re top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing.

This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - gettin= g a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in JSON...<= br>
Kent


--

Hi,

assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a
and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single
RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each
top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something
that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing?

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>


--001a11471eb25f2acc0551600850-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:27:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160131294F7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:27:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCP_xpyvNks6 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B4EC129B8B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4373A8D; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id CxlTCEr3aKtq; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AE720090; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xMZxkCHlUGDF; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FEB2008C; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 77C403FA0DDC; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:27:03 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:27:08 -0000 But for the path again needs an identifier, no? Can you show me the concrete example how I retrieve A:a and A:b from A? Or even better everything from A? /js On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 08:03:01AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > oops -- we renamed select to be called "fields" > > > Andy > > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > hI, > > > > Why can't you just use the "select" query parameter? > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-3.5.3.1: > >> > >> api-path = root *("/" (api-identifier / list-instance)) > >> root = string ;; replacement string for {+restconf} > >> api-identifier = [module-name ":"] identifier > >> module-name = identifier > >> list-instance = api-identifier "=" key-value *("," key-value) > >> key-value = string ;; constrained chars are percent-encoded > >> string = > >> identifier = (ALPHA / "_") > >> *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".") > >> > >> Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so there's no way > >> to, for instance, GET /data/A: [to return the entire module 'A'] > >> > >> I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these are > >> top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing. > >> > >> This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - > >> getting a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in JSON... > >> > >> Kent > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a > >> and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single > >> RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each > >> top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something > >> that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing? > >> > >> /js > >> > >> -- > >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Netconf mailing list > >> Netconf@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Netconf mailing list > >> Netconf@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >> > > > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:39:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4203312ECF0 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:39:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2euirYdDzt7U for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9351512F092 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id g76so7864984wrd.1 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:39:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=IKdYIomjgHTMJresh5Q/qj3uERufC63zJEYhl4VhY7A=; b=SfNJHn/3oJ0NBIAlKV6XE0W/c1ps8O0nv2QsViAhaji6zFf48jsW5q30sH+QOWqfuJ EgICm7aAExuNzBuU0TS6rY9e6sFKRGrvn1yEpXESU2IjIwqD4c0DAozNwTrErmEp2XCl yPtA7Mhe66w4VX+0Rl3ElamgwAnlI1cMuG0+pZmuBFckrPdS87A3ji13lUKvN6hk5/4/ wZt96gLJqNhBb0RBoHnbIL/ViCZ9BIZkwN4Li9nuhNXSpwwsbuJhifPnGe8md5C8zeFu aV0KD07kNB03g3pBdYR0O4p75meoXDAFoedvGTekM7+5GfW1wR8U+K0c1C+jfdbUUrbu 52hA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=IKdYIomjgHTMJresh5Q/qj3uERufC63zJEYhl4VhY7A=; b=AzzpBe/0at+3c0CKG+53mETZIvmgynqKsHII0qZ4Kx/jDlrsIEC3pDS8DSmoCpsowc RCAtrgCejSuvHmNGjhAxZ9W97XqLGB5EqEeRYTE96PHjGhKEs+WRkd/5wMamafNDZzTk gMUvH7y6dk7qOEzeRx2EomHppKBbDqkvbybTvVcCkvQ7lOW/oxXp94FXjIveVHS1kzWN Q38N3E0iwhgEI5tDA9c8e90BgbeLEIv0lYT51nJ6NQHDXGmUVufYEZVX3IcZNDw1QZyI gIikmPZ/aJ6OhjO0+8qfJyUqCTbFQV0/JXpoGJTIn+m+Sa3PIeA3EnXh1qX6QQImplI6 TE3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcA66X8Wds3jmRCWeBKmZFDEcPJF+i3c+eeeAlUJQhp7BGwj6MxB 3bcn/WOFQEHo4xIFmGqZtYHJifx8mitO X-Received: by 10.223.176.205 with SMTP id j13mr8310468wra.65.1496849981968; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:39:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:39:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:39:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1141c6c075308a0551608b1a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:39:48 -0000 --001a1141c6c075308a0551608b1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > But for the path again needs an identifier, no? Can you show me the > concrete example how I retrieve A:a and A:b from A? Or even better > everything from A? > > Our server accepts fields on the datastore root: GET http://localhost/restconf/data?fields=int8.1;int32.1 data xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-restconf"> 100 1 If the RFC says this is not allowed, then it should be corrected. > /js > > Andy > On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 08:03:01AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > oops -- we renamed select to be called "fields" > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > hI, > > > > > > Why can't you just use the "select" query parameter? > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > > > > >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-3.5.3.1: > > >> > > >> api-path = root *("/" (api-identifier / list-instance)) > > >> root = string ;; replacement string for {+restconf} > > >> api-identifier = [module-name ":"] identifier > > >> module-name = identifier > > >> list-instance = api-identifier "=" key-value *("," key-value) > > >> key-value = string ;; constrained chars are percent-encoded > > >> string = > > >> identifier = (ALPHA / "_") > > >> *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".") > > >> > > >> Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifier', so there's no > way > > >> to, for instance, GET /data/A: [to return the entire module 'A'] > > >> > > >> I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, because these are > > >> top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describing. > > >> > > >> This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RESTCONF - > > >> getting a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-container in > JSON... > > >> > > >> Kent > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level containers A:a > > >> and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with a single > > >> RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for each > > >> top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this something > > >> that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing? > > >> > > >> /js > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Netconf mailing list > > >> Netconf@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Netconf mailing list > > >> Netconf@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --001a1141c6c075308a0551608b1a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
But for the path again needs an id= entifier, no? Can you show me the
concrete example how I retrieve A:a and A:b from A? Or even better
everything from A?


Our server accepts fields on the datas= tore root:


data=C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-restconf"<= /span>>
<int32.1=C2=A0xmlns=3D"http://ne= tconfcentral.org/ns/test">100</int32.1>=
<int8.1=C2=A0= xmlns=3D"http://netconfcentral.org/ns/test">1</int8.1&g= t;
</data>

If the RFC says this is not a= llowed, then it should be corrected.


=C2=A0
/js


Andy

=C2=A0
On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 08:03:01AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> oops -- we renamed select to be called "fields"
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> > hI,
> >
> > Why can't you just use the "select" query parameter= ?
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
> >
> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf= c8040#section-3.5.3.1:
> >>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 api-path =3D root *("/" (api-identifie= r / list-instance))
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 root =3D string=C2=A0 ;; replacement string for = {+restconf}
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 api-identifier =3D [module-name ":"] i= dentifier
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module-name =3D identifier
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 list-instance =3D api-identifier "=3D"= key-value *("," key-value)
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 key-value =3D string=C2=A0 ;; constrained chars = are percent-encoded
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string =3D <an unquoted string>
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 identifier =3D (ALPHA / "_")
> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".")
> >>
> >> Looks like 'api-identifier' MUST return 'identifi= er', so there's no way
> >> to, for instance, GET /data/A:=C2=A0 [to return the entire mo= dule 'A']
> >>
> >> I don't think 'list-instance' can be used here, b= ecause these are
> >> top-level module containers (not lists) that you are describi= ng.
> >>
> >> This problem seems familiar to the collections problem in RES= TCONF -
> >> getting a 'list' node has to generate a fake parent-c= ontainer in JSON...
> >>
> >> Kent
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> assume that I have a YANG module A with two top-level contain= ers A:a
> >> and A:b. Is there a way to retrieve the entire module A with = a single
> >> RECTCONF request? It seems that I need a separate request for= each
> >> top-level node. Is this observation correct? If so, is this s= omething
> >> that has shown to be problematic in practice and worth fixing= ?
> >>
> >> /js
> >>
> >> --
> >> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Camp= us Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> >> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Netconf mailing list
> >> Netconf@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/netconf
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Netconf mailing list
> >> Netconf@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/netconf
> >>
> >
> >

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--001a1141c6c075308a0551608b1a-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:48:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C9312871F for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vpmw_ENpb4_S for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F31EC12ECC3 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:47:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9203; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496850479; x=1498060079; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=6GKmKNuwti+uS9oFRguQhiAmqmDKb3r1AornPVjsJDc=; b=RUDrhKf4oD3WY49Bvtph4/Snqu01b26U7D2d1H7J5YARhWV/fPSQ8elx V2RE6uHSIKizy7EEXX/krXqzWsS5euTyK8ebSel31wKQBuIu7rGI48Eg1 izoQSZLn4KFEDrG+Co0YMBJ4oPfcDBTt4rVnrGz90b4lAef0pIHQ+O/Q8 s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CxAQA7HzhZ/xbLJq1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgyuBD4ENjn6QVCFyj1WFOYIQIQEKhS5KAoM0FwECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRgBAQEBAgEBAWwQCwsYFRIHJx8RBgEMBgIBAYofCBCwZiuLVAEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFhmGBYCsLgjY0hFRVhTQFlweHMpM4iw+GcYwqiD0gATY?= =?us-ascii?q?/SzAhCBsVRoROgjs/NolSAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,311,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="652413934" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 07 Jun 2017 15:47:54 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.123] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-123.cisco.com [10.63.23.123]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v57Flsx1023681; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 15:47:54 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <8B937B7A-B151-45CE-A234-6A9601C23F3A@juniper.net> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <0ca6472c-fa06-0751-a742-349c8352a1b0@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:47:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E915262E4345ADDACA9275EF" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf default handling X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:48:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E915262E4345ADDACA9275EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, On 31/05/2017 20:09, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > s3.5.4, p.3 says: > > If the target of a GET method is a data node that represents a leaf > or leaf-list that has a default value and the leaf or leaf-list has > not been instantiated yet, the server MUST return the default value > or values that are in use by the server. In this case, the server > MUST ignore its "basic-mode", described in Section 4.8.9, and return > the default value. > > Is this really what we want? What happened to trusting that clients > are YANG-aware? How can a client otherwise test if a leaf is set > (e.g., get a 404) without GET-ing the parent container and then > checking if the leaf is present? > > I ask because this doesn't seem right, and there may be a way to not > carry this into the support for revised-datastores... > > > I think this is right. > If the target resource is a leaf or leaf-list and the YANG default is > returned. > If the target resource is an ancestor of the same leaf or leaf-list then > the with-defaults mode determines if the default is added to the response. > > If the client asks for a specific terminal node, then why not just > return it? Because a client may want to know whether the server holds an explicitly configured value for that leaf/leaf-list. If a client wants defaults to be taken into account then then could just make the query using the with-defaults query parameter. Making a GET of a leaf/leaf-list a special case doesn't make any sense to me, it just seems confusing. > This is simpler for the client. I think that it is anything but simpler for the client. :-) Having GET of a leaf, and GET of the parent container returning different information for that same leaf does not seem simple. It is also slightly unclear what happens if the "with-defaults" query parameter is used on a leaf. My reading of the draft is that the query parameter would be honoured and override the leaf behaviour described in 3.5.4. Is that right? > > > K. > > > Andy Thanks, Rob > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------E915262E4345ADDACA9275EF Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,


On 31/05/2017 20:09, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
s3.5.4, p.3 says:

 If the target of a GET method is a data node that represents a leaf
 or leaf-list that has a default value and the leaf or leaf-list has
 not been instantiated yet, the server MUST return the default value
 or values that are in use by the server.  In this case, the server
 MUST ignore its "basic-mode", described in Section 4.8.9, and return
 the default value.

Is this really what we want?  What happened to trusting that clients
are YANG-aware?  How can a client otherwise test if a leaf is set
(e.g., get a 404) without GET-ing the parent container and then
checking if the leaf is present?

I ask because this doesn't seem right, and there may be a way to not
carry this into the support for revised-datastores...


I think this is right.
If the target resource is a leaf or leaf-list and the YANG default is returned.
If the target resource is an ancestor of the same leaf or leaf-list then
the with-defaults mode determines if the default is added to the response.

If the client asks for a specific terminal node, then why not just return it?
Because a client may want to know whether the server holds an explicitly configured value for that leaf/leaf-list.

If a client wants defaults to be taken into account then then could just make the query using the with-defaults query parameter.

Making a GET of a leaf/leaf-list a special case doesn't make any sense to me, it just seems confusing.


This is simpler for the client.
I think that it is anything but simpler for the client. :-)

Having GET of a leaf, and GET of the parent container returning different information for that same leaf does not seem simple.

It is also slightly unclear what happens if the "with-defaults" query parameter is used on a leaf.  My reading of the draft is that the query parameter would be honoured and override the leaf behaviour described in 3.5.4.  Is that right?





K.


Andy

Thanks,
Rob

 

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf



_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
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--------------E915262E4345ADDACA9275EF-- From nobody Wed Jun 7 08:49:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67FF12ECF5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:49:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZCmY5IjtBvYQ for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F16B12ECC7 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D446A76; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id REm-V7SgLRtF; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A802008D; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7zq81N6ilDm3; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3C42008C; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4F3E13FA0F1E; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:49:12 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170607154912.GD28008@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 15:49:17 -0000 On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 08:39:41AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > But for the path again needs an identifier, no? Can you show me the > > concrete example how I retrieve A:a and A:b from A? Or even better > > everything from A? > > > > > Our server accepts fields on the datastore root: > > GET http://localhost/restconf/data?fields=int8.1;int32.1 > > data xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-restconf"> > 100 > 1 > > > If the RFC says this is not allowed, then it should be corrected. Just to make sure I got this right, I would do {+restconf}/data?fields=A:a;A:b in my example and the client has to construct a query with all toplevel fields (since there is no wildcard). The RFC says: fields-expr = path "(" fields-expr ")" / path ";" fields-expr / path path = api-identifier [ "/" path ] api-identifier = [module-name ":"] identifier identifier = (ALPHA / "_") *(ALPHA / DIGIT / "_" / "-" / ".") This looks OK since fields-expr defines the value of the fields query parameters. Since the "fields" query parameter is a "capability", can it be that a server does not allow me to do this? I guess so. Hm. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 7 09:01:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B621612F265 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 09:01:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1178.5; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:01:09 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1157.010; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:01:09 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Andy Bierman , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module Thread-Index: AQHS35eUnGTQUc+mX0GcwP2JXHyMgaIZNwIAgABHzACAAABSgIAABreAgAADiID//8LwAA== Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:01:09 +0000 Message-ID: <8C8AC488-98B0-411A-ABE8-B02442B75F1D@juniper.net> References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: yumaworks.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;yumaworks.com; dmarc=none action=none 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4UseVAROr9xP; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA5C20089; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id AEA8E3FA104A; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:13:46 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170607161346.GA28124@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170607140834.GA27865@elstar.local> <20170607152703.GA28008@elstar.local> <8C8AC488-98B0-411A-ABE8-B02442B75F1D@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8C8AC488-98B0-411A-ABE8-B02442B75F1D@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] restconf retrieval of a whole module X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 16:13:53 -0000 On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 04:01:09PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Still, having to resort to a query parameter to do this seems weird. > I think modules might be better to always define a single TLC > (top-level container) for everything to go under... NO! Please not! Lets not start to design data models to work around any protocol limitations. If a protocol has a problem (not sure yet whether this is true here), then fix the protocol. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 7 09:56:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651BF129A8D for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 09:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.53.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149686337302.2659.1827045858718578212@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 12:22:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:22:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : NETCONF Support for Event Notifications Authors : Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Alexander Clemm Eric Voit Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Ambika Prasad Tripathy Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-03.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2017-06-07 Abstract: This document defines how to transport network subscriptions and event messages on top of the Network Configuration protocol (NETCONF). This includes the full set of RPCs, subscription state changes, and message payloads needing asynchronous delivery. The capabilities and operations defined in this document used in conjunction with [subscribe] are intended to obsolete [RFC5277]. In addition, the capabilities within those two documents along with [yang-push] are intended to enable an extract of a YANG datastore on a remote device. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-event-notifications-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 7 16:00:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6C2126D45 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:00:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 85vgLnGTokGs for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CFF7120454 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:00:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7830; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496876432; x=1498086032; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=y9esYvjIQnh6/P8Ina2rqRHx9sNDtfxWLetctA0QCTw=; b=HyjuWDOGllg5MnC7RjJnIpPKL6YNiHOyUQJ09fDoJe1VHIfHXHIe8CG5 +1ak/JsSoQqQsNMPAnGWBq9RY++9BnI8p/eOYznn5wrBn2d9dmfqWXGzW S7bHtvgevYMvoOfGURhWVGrLql9M8XyeYpk52E4Vul7lTt5Ej5G6T5eIn Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CYAABQhThZ/4MNJK1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm9pYoENB44EojGFOYIQLIhnPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrHQuFTF4BgQA?= =?us-ascii?q?mAQQbiT9kELFHi38BAQEBAQEEAQEBAQEBARwFhmGETIFxiSAFij+TegKHJIwJk?= =?us-ascii?q?gmUZgEfOIEKdBWHTnYBAYhygQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,311,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="435093328" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 07 Jun 2017 23:00:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (xch-aln-013.cisco.com [173.36.7.23]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v57N0KFT001716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:00:20 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-014.cisco.com (173.37.102.24) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:00:19 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-014.cisco.com ([173.37.102.24]) by XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com ([173.37.102.24]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 18:00:20 -0500 From: "Steve Truong (struong)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RFC8040 Percent encoding and query point Thread-Index: AdLf4c+XLTU+/dXuQRygncq9gYXZtg== Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 23:00:19 +0000 Message-ID: <606e847a330d4835ab1d142c56f1dc9b@XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.199.66] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_606e847a330d4835ab1d142c56f1dc9bXCHRCD014ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] RFC8040 Percent encoding and query point X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 23:00:34 -0000 --_000_606e847a330d4835ab1d142c56f1dc9bXCHRCD014ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In 4.8.6. The "point" Query Parameter: ...The format is the same as a target resource URI string. But in example B.3.5. "point" Parameter Request from client: POST /restconf/data/example-jukebox:jukebox/\ playlist=3DFoo-One?insert=3Dafter&point=3D\ %2Fexample-jukebox%3Ajukebox\ %2Fplaylist%3DFoo-One%2Fsong%3D1 HTTP/1.1 I think this example request should be: POST /restconf/data/example-jukebox:jukebox/\ playlist=3DFoo-One?insert=3Dafter&point=3D\ /example-jukebox%3Ajukebox\ /playlist%3DFoo-One/song%3D1 HTTP/1.1 In other words, the segment separators must not be percent encoded but slas= hes (and other characters with special meaning in a URL) within the point = value, eg., 'GigabitEthernet0/0/0/1' must be percent encoded. Comment? steve --_000_606e847a330d4835ab1d142c56f1dc9bXCHRCD014ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In 4.8.6.  The "point" Query Parameter:

…The format is the same as a target reso= urce URI string.

 

But in example

B.3.5.  "poi= nt" Parameter

   Request from client:

 

      POST /restco= nf/data/example-jukebox:jukebox/\

       &= nbsp;  playlist=3DFoo-One?insert=3Dafter&point=3D\

       &= nbsp;  %2Fexample-jukebox%3Ajukebox\

       &= nbsp;  %2Fplaylist%3DFoo-One%2Fsong%3D1 HTTP/1.1=

 

 

I think this example request should be:

 

      POST /restco= nf/data/example-jukebox:jukebox/\

       &= nbsp;  playlist=3DFoo-One?insert=3Dafter&point=3D\

       &= nbsp;  /example-jukebox%3Ajukebox\

       &= nbsp;  /playlist%3DFoo-One/song%3D1 HTTP/1.1

 

In other words, the segment separators must not be p= ercent encoded but slashes  (and other characters with special meaning= in a URL) within the point value, eg., ‘GigabitEthernet0/0/0/1’= ; must be percent encoded.

 

Comment?

 

steve

 

 

--_000_606e847a330d4835ab1d142c56f1dc9bXCHRCD014ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 01:49:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EB4129C59; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 01:49:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.53.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 01:49:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_char?= =?utf-8?q?ter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 08:49:14 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Probably editorial comments on point 5: - Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/ - And what's a transport message? Regarding the milestones: - Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is that on purpose? - Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close enough to he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone is actually valuable. From nobody Thu Jun 8 04:45:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E08127078 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 04:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9rz3ED1jibWY for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 04:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.transpacket.com (s91205186171.blix.com [91.205.186.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9B71129C6D for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 04:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5021500661; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id iMwJCfeaTVQt; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1910150065C; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id QIipTedrVQdP; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.209.116] (s1853520235.blix.com [185.35.202.35]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B024D150065B; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:06 +0200 (CEST) References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> Cc: netconf@ietf.org To: Juergen Schoenwaelder From: Vladimir Vassilev Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:45:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 11:45:13 -0000 Hello, I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a lot of standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with little practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate explicitly states the importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to avoid complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and the corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with datastores that have different schema have limited application usecases and numerous alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this the solution should not put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have use for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I would very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores from there. My main question is: What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of the datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data tree /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the conventional running/intended ... datastores. There are alternatives like reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state container or schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and you can achieve the same without modifying rfc7895. Obviously this alternative solution will comply with requirement 5 in draft-ietf-netmod-opstate-reqs-04 which the currently proposed modifications break: 5. Backwards compatibility A. It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients. The conventional datastores - running/intended, candidate ... - should keep their default semantics with a schema tree described in /yanglib:modules-state. IMO the requirement is similar to keeping a printf C function (client) working despite that stdout is just another file descriptor and at some point fprintf is introduced (environments without file system still have printf and it works). Despite the changes of the C language definitions programs written 40 years ago still compile and work .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language#/media/File:Hello_World_Brian_Kernighan_1978.jpg Vladimir On 06/05/2017 07:31 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:03:42PM +0100, t.petch wrote: >> Andy >> >> I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get >> more so:-( >> >> Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the >> engineering >> reality that YANG comes in YANG modules. A box will have datastores, a >> box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to >> modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores. In >> relational terms, all very simple. Which RFC defines which is a >> different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time. >> >> I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores, >> albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG. >> >> And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the >> IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled >> together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have >> been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to >> tease out the different concepts. >> > Tom, this is not an IETF problem nor is it a YANG problem. Pretty much > any computer technology I have seen requires careful maintenance when > the technology sees active use that goes beyond the narrow scope of > the initial design. Read the C language definition and compare it to > how it looked like 30-40 years ago. Take early versions of HTTP and > compare them to what we have today. I think the key challenge is to > sharpen architectural concepts during the evolution of the technology > in such a way that further evolution remains feasible or even becomes > simpler. > > The networking world also has changed since the work on NETCONF (and a > bit later YANG) started. While perhaps some things were foreseeable, > others were likely not. We also punted a few issues during the design > process that we knew were not finally resolved. For example, some of > the debate how we deal with operational state was even documented in > RFC 6244 (published six years ago) and we had more discussions around > this issue when the interfaces model was written up. > > Could we have designed a 'perfect' data modeling language and > supporting protocols before doing any implementations or deployments? > Perhaps - if we would have managed to ever complete. Would we have > been successful in terms of deployed running code? Most likely not. In > order to create and grow an ecosystem around a technology, you need to > start with something that offers value and is simple enough to get > implemented and deployed. And once you have the seeds out, you need to > carefully evolve the technology and grow the ecosystem around it. I do > not see this as a 'general problem' - I see this is a successful path > to introduce (and exploit) a new technology. > > /js > From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:03:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A7912EABA; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vk2HzCMDlBZa; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBD76129B07; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:03:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2658; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496927034; x=1498136634; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jguJDh3UYr3obxkG643D15L10wOR802ExH8ndGCWJ0c=; b=MQ2mO4wFKW7BjfkQrl+4hS6MIL2COme7A2X7Ci0DvzRiM9BvNEV/POHI mLFzplxAvW2c+3w7A+uzTR0C8M5qSxt2HFYtrV/tP+rJMogdxyJjqcr1i k/425+S107XoSpIaWOiTo3KB4I2xCTMsW91+NXytU5gQ3WWqGg3s7vzi3 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BiAQB4SjlZ/xbLJq1EGhoBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYQ6gQ2Dc4oYc5BWliOCESyFeAKDOBgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUZBiMVQRA?= =?us-ascii?q?LGgImAgJXBgEMCAEBEIoXEDGwIIImjAABAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARkFg?= =?us-ascii?q?QuFVoILC4JqhDsSAQaDKIJhAQSJTYZmhlWHMocojBSCBoU+g0uGcowriD0fOH8?= =?us-ascii?q?LMCEIGxWHVD42AYdQgjABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208";a="655276732" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 13:03:49 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58D3mAd008634; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:03:49 GMT To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org References: <149669675574.3172.18193455633517784838.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:03:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149669675574.3172.18193455633517784838.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:03:56 -0000 Hi Spencer, > Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have a few minor comments, but this looks clear and plausible. > > In this text, > > 1. Finalize the YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism, > which can be used to hold asymmetric private keys and certificates that > are > trusted by the system advertising support for this module. Based on the > known > dependencies this draft has the highest priority for the WG. > > I thought it might be helpful to say who has these dependencies, not in > detail, but just at the "other working groups", "other SDOs", "open > source community", "all of the above" level. All dependencies are within NETCONF WG Details here: https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/impact_analysis.php?modules[]=ietf-tls-client&modules[]=ietf-tls-server&modules[]=ietf-ssh-client&modules[]=ietf-ssh-server&modules[]=ietf-restconf-client&modules[]=ietf-restconf-server&modules[]=ietf-key-store&modules[]=ietf-netconf-client&modules[]=ietf-netconf-server&orgs[]=ietf&recurse=0&rfcs=1&show_subm=1 In the charter text, I added the parentheses to the sentence: Based on the knowndependencies (multiple NETCONF documents), this draft has the highest priority for the WG. > > I counted something like seven items that apply to both NETCONF and > RESTCONF/HTTP2. Is the intention that these are two protocols that will > continue to evolve, but in lockstep? I think you're headed that way, but > I'm not sure. If so, saying that would be good. It depends what we mean by lockstep. NETCONF and RESTCONF have different protocol capabilities. However, what is common is that both must transport YANG encoded information. > For all the other RFCs listed in the charter, the name of the RFC is also > provided (sometimes the name is in parens, other times the RFC number is > in parens, but they're always together), except for RFC 5277 which is > invoked without providing its name. Could you adjust the first mention of > RFC 5277 to match the others? Done. Thanks for your feedback. Regards, B. > > > . > From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:08:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E7B12EABD; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikb1npgRI__H; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2E4912EAB5; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:08:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1212; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496927308; x=1498136908; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=86MwNmnSGJkrYOVO2wmT249LGQhPlxsbAdYKZYVLsfc=; b=S7E/repgV5jKlDCVqLJSHSyOxGnbrLRDPqRj02Tsiyd0NbHYOwEE6Ymd Tk1nAvRCc00K2n2+1iGYhPubTqm/GkR1QlqJx6uvUwpwO4V0PqOMGRfMx IRWmjko2uLKILgJu4og3tsUE4AwgU7zXJuo3WhTi3J8091m5kzpWpfJ6/ U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BiAQAsSzlZ/xbLJq1eGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBhDqFAIoYc5BWliOCESyFeAKDOBgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUZBiMVQRALGgI?= =?us-ascii?q?mAgJXBgEMCAEBiicQsFSCJowAAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEZBYELhVaCC?= =?us-ascii?q?wuCaoQ7EgGDLoJhAQSJTZRthyiMFAKCBIU+g0uGcowriD0fOH8LMCEIGxWHVD6?= =?us-ascii?q?HeA8XA4IWAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208";a="652435305" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 13:08:25 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58D8PfL011501; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:08:25 GMT To: Ben Campbell , The IESG Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org References: <149672078853.4019.5198112663756820973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <83414475-fee3-253b-5f1d-225f1e695c78@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:08:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149672078853.4019.5198112663756820973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Ben Campbell's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:08:30 -0000 Ben, > Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I agree with Spencer's comments. > > Also, I have trouble suspending disbelief with those milestone dates. > (Especially the ones in the past.) If those are real, it means the WG will be > doing lots of work in parallel over the next couple of months. Is that > reasonable? I (slightly) modified the milestone dates. Note that many documents have been worked on for some time. For example, this "Provide a revised version of NETCONF Access Control Model (RFC 6536)" document went through a last call already, as was already part of the previous charter. Regards, Benoit > > > . > From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:15:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AFF9129435; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:15:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.881 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ljdXSb3hiBlm; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D3F812EACF; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.2.172] (ip-13-230-239-173.toronto.ca.northamericancoax.com [173.239.230.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id v58DFXfl095966 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 8 Jun 2017 08:15:34 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host ip-13-230-239-173.toronto.ca.northamericancoax.com [173.239.230.13] claimed to be [10.0.2.172] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <83414475-fee3-253b-5f1d-225f1e695c78@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:15:32 -0400 Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <149672078853.4019.5198112663756820973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <83414475-fee3-253b-5f1d-225f1e695c78@cisco.com> To: Benoit Claise Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Ben Campbell's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:15:40 -0000 > On Jun 8, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >=20 > Ben, >> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection >>=20 [...] >> Also, I have trouble suspending disbelief with those milestone dates. >> (Especially the ones in the past.) If those are real, it means the WG wil= l be >> doing lots of work in parallel over the next couple of months. Is that >> reasonable? > I (slightly) modified the milestone dates. > Note that many documents have been worked on for some time. > For example, this "Provide a revised version of NETCONF Access Control Mod= el (RFC 6536)" document went through a last call already, as was already par= t of the previous charter. Thanks, the new dates at least enter the realm of the "possible". I'll leave= the "probably" up to you. :-) Ben. >=20 From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:18:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19ECF12EADB; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:18:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q8e2sWHc64fI; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ADA012EAE1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:18:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5192; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496927906; x=1498137506; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=cbc8UA/IJ+zfvqp1kuTp+pzjFYYiNgpJx373ppBS/g8=; b=gfa+xn8CvjReDzao2tbD4zzoGd3IYBjg2NCCSo9t828VXLCEn2IYcv88 8Ucr9Ol4qgrL+DU/i++/D1qdeaV0NRCc9m4ClercxFLp/8olCJJbaOsmJ zIXlDSktKYefecdHenVaDAefGbGAGvK3VJtEGTeYcej2RM1ZNItrWbALI w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ARAQAETjlZ/xbLJq1eGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBhDqFAIoYc6FAhTmCESyFeAKDORgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUZBiNWEAsEPgI?= =?us-ascii?q?CVwYBDAgBAYonELBTgiYri1UBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYZhgWArg?= =?us-ascii?q?nWEOxIBgy6CYQWJTY07hzKHKIwUggaFPoNLhnKMK4g9Hzh/CzAhCBsVhgaBTj6?= =?us-ascii?q?IB4IwAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="695000637" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 13:18:22 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58DILdI013646; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:18:21 GMT To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= , The IESG Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:18:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8A729AB497D56C6052406ACE" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:18:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8A729AB497D56C6052406ACE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mirja, > Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Probably editorial comments on point 5: > - Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/ Done. > - And what's a transport message? I don't know the right term. Any proposal? > > Regarding the milestones: > - Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is that > on purpose? Good point. I see missing milestones for: 6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore framework. Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates? I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD dependency. I introduced: Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard > - Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate > milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close enough to > he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone is > actually valuable. I could agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and I respect that. Regards, Benoit > > > . > --------------8A729AB497D56C6052406ACE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mirja,
Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Probably editorial comments on point 5:
- Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/
Done.
- And what's a transport message?
I don't know the right term. Any proposal?

Regarding the milestones:
- Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is that
on purpose?
Good point. I see missing milestones for:
6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a
revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore
framework.
Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates?
I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD dependency.
I introduced:
Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols

Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for
consideration as Proposed Standard

- Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate
milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close enough to
he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone is
actually valuable.
I could agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and I respect that.

Regards, Benoit


.

--------------8A729AB497D56C6052406ACE-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:22:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEBCA12EB47 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:22:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NB443xi_iHl0 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4846C12EB43 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:22:54 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=HgFih672XWsr10MwC9QFyKjRW72FbXfIOX5GsFAyCrUt8ccExz5x8A97aCzCnBta775H4vpSCOQYX7DBbkApMpCtYuyUX4fCDF5kBVRVnfKmp8t0OKUySfWiFhy4S3QcOoMCE0tD812dKpyXQ9qyzo+PJEIG69wnu+6zUBBsYd8=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 1601 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2017 15:22:52 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.243.37.8?) (89.202.203.52) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 8 Jun 2017 15:22:52 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:22:52 +0200 Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Benoit Claise X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20170608132252.1594.9117@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:22:57 -0000 Hi Benoit, > Am 08.06.2017 um 15:18 schrieb Benoit Claise : >=20 >> - And what's a transport message? > I don't know the right term. Any proposal? >=20 I not sure what is meant here. Packet? Connection? I guess the latter=E2=80= =A6 or something else? Which protocol we are talking about here? Mirja From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:27:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915BE12EB12; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:27:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vok4vt-nXD23; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ED42129483; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37214EF3; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 6CqTlldxTWO7; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177D320091; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YIrcvUQtYkzl; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C543120090; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E84C63FB1DEF; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:26:49 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: Benoit Claise , netconf@ietf.org, The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" , Benoit Claise , netconf@ietf.org, The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?iso-8859-1?q?Mirja_K=FChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_c?= =?iso-8859-1?q?harter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:27:01 -0000 On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 03:22:52PM +0200, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) wrote: > Hi Benoit, > > > Am 08.06.2017 um 15:18 schrieb Benoit Claise : > > > >> - And what's a transport message? > > I don't know the right term. Any proposal? > > > > I not sure what is meant here. Packet? Connection? I guess the latter… or something else? Which protocol we are talking about here? > I think it should be "into a single message" - simply remove 'transport'. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:28:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605D112EAE1; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pUL23h4I7vYq; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B84E129483; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:27:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1052; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496928473; x=1498138073; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CJ2Kf/irax1MyQM/pPoqDg4iwNP65sknJnHmJbLHjBw=; b=hEo5sAjsNjhxvcJYBF0zwReSfMzJw/ul8eKrIahSNAtlKAlKHDeXNNhd cgWgyfJPGsJJLLvWysbI6310Wf133/Jh/rdp7reTapWZ55Op/8MdVJ7E/ pyOahZWDa7yxsJufrxBFBh2UK9osrXTEHyUg7OxHoVm8zvt5X20jiPXeJ Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DPAAAOUDlZ/xbLJq1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBhUeDc4oYc5B3lgKCEYYkAoM5GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRkBBSMVQRA?= =?us-ascii?q?LGAICJgICVwYNBgIBAYonsGKCJowAAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEhgQuFVoILg?= =?us-ascii?q?nWHfIJhAQSeOpM8iw+GcowriD0fOIEKMCEIGxWHVD42h0IpghYBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208";a="695000894" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 13:27:49 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58DRmCj030870; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:27:48 GMT To: Ben Campbell Cc: netconf@ietf.org, The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org References: <149672078853.4019.5198112663756820973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <83414475-fee3-253b-5f1d-225f1e695c78@cisco.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:27:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Ben Campbell's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:27:55 -0000 Ben, >> On Jun 8, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> >> Ben, >>> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for >>> charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection >>> > [...] > >>> Also, I have trouble suspending disbelief with those milestone dates. >>> (Especially the ones in the past.) If those are real, it means the WG will be >>> doing lots of work in parallel over the next couple of months. Is that >>> reasonable? >> I (slightly) modified the milestone dates. >> Note that many documents have been worked on for some time. >> For example, this "Provide a revised version of NETCONF Access Control Model (RFC 6536)" document went through a last call already, as was already part of the previous charter. > Thanks, the new dates at least enter the realm of the "possible". I'll leave the "probably" up to you. :-) I spoke to one key contributor recently, and I have high expectations. Maybe ... this message is not addressed to you Ben, but to him ;-) No pressure ... Regards, Benoit From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:34:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E496012EAFB; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1rOzdoEntbPX; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:34:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3139112441E; 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08 Jun 2017 13:34:14 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (xch-rtp-013.cisco.com [64.101.220.153]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58DYELq025166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:34:14 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:34:13 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:34:13 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" CC: "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W05ldGNvbmZdICBNaXJqYSBLw7xobGV3aW5kJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9u?= =?utf-8?Q?_charter-ietf-netconf-18-13:_(with_COMMENT)?= Thread-Index: AQHS4Fr/iOONoQYD0UCIUPh7SOrA7qIa9sbg Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:34:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9bca92893d654214a9b0f2b87947b782@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:34:17 -0000 PiBGcm9tOiBKdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIsIFRodXJzZGF5LCBKdW5lIDgsIDIwMTcgOToy NyBBTQ0KPiANCj4gT24gVGh1LCBKdW4gMDgsIDIwMTcgYXQgMDM6MjI6NTJQTSArMDIwMCwgTWly amEgS3VlaGxld2luZCAoSUVURikgd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gSGkgQmVub2l0LA0KPiA+DQo+ID4gPiBB bSAwOC4wNi4yMDE3IHVtIDE1OjE4IHNjaHJpZWIgQmVub2l0IENsYWlzZSA8YmNsYWlzZUBjaXNj by5jb20+Og0KPiA+ID4NCj4gPiA+PiAtIEFuZCB3aGF0J3MgYSB0cmFuc3BvcnQgbWVzc2FnZT8N Cj4gPiA+IEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB0aGUgcmlnaHQgdGVybS4gQW55IHByb3Bvc2FsPw0KPiA+ID4N Cj4gPg0KPiA+IEkgbm90IHN1cmUgd2hhdCBpcyBtZWFudCBoZXJlLiBQYWNrZXQ/IENvbm5lY3Rp b24/IEkgZ3Vlc3MgdGhlIGxhdHRlcuKApiBvcg0KPiBzb21ldGhpbmcgZWxzZT8gV2hpY2ggcHJv dG9jb2wgd2UgYXJlIHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQgaGVyZT8NCj4gPg0KPiANCj4gSSB0aGluayBpdCBz aG91bGQgYmUgImludG8gYSBzaW5nbGUgbWVzc2FnZSIgLSBzaW1wbHkgcmVtb3ZlICd0cmFuc3Bv cnQnLg0KDQpZZXMsIGV4YWN0bHkuDQoNCkVyaWMNCiANCj4gL2pzDQo+IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBKdWVy Z2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgICAgICAgICAgIEphY29icyBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IEJyZW1lbiBnR21i SA0KPiBQaG9uZTogKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzU4NyAgICAgICAgIENhbXB1cyBSaW5nIDEgfCAyODc1 OSBCcmVtZW4gfCBHZXJtYW55DQo+IEZheDogICArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAzMTAzICAgICAgICAgPGh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHkuZGUvPg0KDQo= From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:36:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9F112441E; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lWHXsLOqKDMd; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B50F1200C5; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=530; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496928973; x=1498138573; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XxNkD9Ch+lPvTQSmB1ETbQXT9PlpqqWg2rE35tAOCPI=; b=f540VSOzHD6M6AIghnaP+1XMEA9z6Z/vKTvsilqt+rMOD/MAz9Q12Qxb FOG/MhpKXNLhG9QfajzmEpCwfQiQ2VBfIURRZfjKIW/OUJAg6rvipjLTS o2LbiuOOcH8HeqOD06N9NP7laMFv5XyUg7v+manG6wvsUJm9gDykiqKzz A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208";a="652436003" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 13:36:11 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58DaAqV017758; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 13:36:10 GMT To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" Cc: The IESG , "netconf-chairs@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> <9bca92893d654214a9b0f2b87947b782@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:36:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9bca92893d654214a9b0f2b87947b782@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:15 -0000 >> I think it should be "into a single message" - simply remove 'transport'. > Yes, exactly. Done. Thanks guys. Regards, B. > > Eric > >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu Jun 8 06:36:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9852F12EAFE for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=ietf@kuehlewind.net header.d=kuehlewind.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vXeQqOUTAiI3 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 932EF1200C5 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 06:36:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=kuehlewind.net; b=GnqSlxohEmyifvZkMST3A9HG+DF/YsJeKDH/DxvIbtXWSI9xojk+xDpJdxP3EVCrFiSf74Zjfiwpp94UJ1Jd4bjCHuFssQ2OWHDuPzK/jiY7cvcCBvnt3ZbLgtRX9BlVT1CIty2ZpNw7sfPqYt6Tok3m2XnV9WuP1OuoOV1lYtc=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-PPP-Message-ID:X-PPP-Vhost; Received: (qmail 1998 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2017 15:36:28 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.243.37.8?) (89.202.203.52) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 8 Jun 2017 15:36:27 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:36:28 +0200 Cc: Benoit Claise , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, The IESG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97739E96-2228-4651-90C9-2449F0B77EF3@kuehlewind.net> References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9D85A378-49DE-4802-9024-8F6977718D98@kuehlewind.net> <20170608132647.GB39691@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20170608133628.1990.95502@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 13:36:32 -0000 That works too. One more I guess: s/transport independence/protocol independence/ > Am 08.06.2017 um 15:26 schrieb Juergen Schoenwaelder = : >=20 > On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 03:22:52PM +0200, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) = wrote: >> Hi Benoit, >>=20 >>> Am 08.06.2017 um 15:18 schrieb Benoit Claise : >>>=20 >>>> - And what's a transport message? >>> I don't know the right term. Any proposal? >>>=20 >>=20 >> I not sure what is meant here. Packet? Connection? I guess the = latter=E2=80=A6 or something else? Which protocol we are talking about = here? >>=20 >=20 > I think it should be "into a single message" - simply remove > 'transport'. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 From nobody Thu Jun 8 07:04:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114E312948A; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:04:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MHBrKd6W9g6N; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3307912946F; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id x3so7483989wme.0; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 07:04:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=VSNbkLWqOHsIe2KN7xWamfgBA0c85Ick3Q2LANLN8Ws=; b=oJ1O0+0+3J4yimJAoBBsqWulVEegasmAW9z329xW4IIVlkzRQZ3yRgG1YkpxFJ07aS 76vxPdergwbEMsfXAd95cibUR4LWyjt0CJTCSdARR7oSAjPy1IF8Kln7Zn9l7udA3SWQ B2yONH8B/ph38PBioDewIPnUGm5UFRFFAvwZorb80YN1Iy00Bkcvz3sLhdIaEwxrSACG SXN26KQs8Ls0hG0fIiMBbax9vTHZLbBzoPEsE5L31SzOV7biXlP+1Hdm5FW1gkEM+GsI pqOjAGFpr80qXdxrlny0RT6+OP0bIQbDaqriRh4FlBnaI7KVRhoyC2O/X+SiZ7b9eWUy ATmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=VSNbkLWqOHsIe2KN7xWamfgBA0c85Ick3Q2LANLN8Ws=; b=d4iXxJAw32rk8bHtN4v0El1C9s4ynOIvhbZSjnvO1Uiar9XcZlL4H1YhtcQ59VMfhe MOnTEmjxC4G5+xG5DWtqlY02mdi5Z2qo20d6Ye+1quMQFtJvQmxCmjzqEDLne9r4fS7L BLaoQ6aS7kDhzCuf60c2+wIY5V3c5TwS7JkmssgW8FR0+xzvLMiqZYHSM34yk2pFi2Go cQ/FI94ZdE49OOTzsY2gdMkBYujSPS98/p4Nl0U4P+nYYl2uvWn8jwQLbPg3vcMfiqZm fp5mwV9A72GirzWO5DkBKoiuCUVX/CleNtQze7IaspzCF5USq7zNI2DWCN7PqoHnlz4q D6Sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyYIFtunn0PG6fQiIeJxRwFWbbZsRVF0ecgfw4j5ZJU1hUYWCOh R6K0ndrN8PC9atF0 X-Received: by 10.28.105.136 with SMTP id z8mr3501529wmh.60.1496930653677; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 07:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ (p57A77D8F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.167.125.143]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k53sm6521641wrc.10.2017.06.08.07.04.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Jun 2017 07:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'Benoit Claise'" , =?utf-8?Q?'Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind'?= , "'The IESG'" Cc: , References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 16:04:12 +0200 Message-ID: <00a901d2e060$1bb673f0$53235bd0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AA_01D2E070.DF405560" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQNCZj8fpMLcWqQ+vhtJ8mriPswc/QFIbdCGnzGvV7A= Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:04:18 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01D2E070.DF405560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates? > I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD = dependency. I introduced: > Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols > > Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to = AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Considering the availability of draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores in = July 2017 I expect the authors of NETCONF and RESTCONF-bis will need until = November=20 meeting to prepare a LC ready version. =20 Cheers, Mehmet =20 From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:18 PM To: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind ; The IESG Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's No Objection on = charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) =20 Mirja, Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection =20 When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) =20 =20 =20 The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ =20 =20 =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- =20 Probably editorial comments on point 5: - Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/ Done. =20 - And what's a transport message? I don't know the right term. Any proposal? =20 =20 Regarding the milestones: - Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is = that on purpose?=20 Good point. I see missing milestones for: 6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore framework.=20 =20 Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates? I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD = dependency. I introduced: Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard - Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close = enough to he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate = milestone is actually valuable. I could agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and I = respect that. Regards, Benoit =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01D2E070.DF405560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone = dates?
> I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a = NETMOD dependency.
I introduced:

> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Oct = 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols
>
> = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nov = 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG = for
consideration as Proposed Standard

Considering the = availability of draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores in July = 2017

I expect the authors of NETCONF and RESTCONF-bis = will need until November

meeting to prepare a LC = ready version.

 

Cheers,

Mehmet

 

From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] =
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Mirja = K=C3=BChlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>; The IESG = <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org; = netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's No = Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with = COMMENT)

 

Mirja,

Mirja K=C3=BChlewind =
has entered the following ballot position =
for
charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No =
Objection
 
When =
responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to =
all
email addresses included in the To and CC =
lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory =
paragraph, =
however.)
 
 
 
The document, along with other =
ballot positions, can be found here:
https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/
 
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------=
------
COMMENT:
---------------=
-------------------------------------------------------
<=
pre> 
Probably editorial comments on point =
5:
- Maybe =
s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/

Done.

 
- And what's a transport message?

I don't know the right term. Any = proposal?

 
 
Regarding the =
milestones:
- Is it correct that not all points =
listed are covered by milestones? Is that
on =
purpose?

Good point. = I see missing milestones for:

6. Based on the revised =
datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide =
a
revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols =
and the used datastore
framework. =

 

Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone = dates?
I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD = dependency.
I introduced:

Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF = bis protocols

Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols = to AD/IESG for
consideration as Proposed = Standard

- Is it really =
needed to call out the WGLC as a =
separate
milestones? I've seen wg adoption as =
milestones but WGLC seems close enough to
he final =
publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone =
is
actually =
valuable.

I could = agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and I respect = that.

Regards, Benoit

 
 
------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01D2E070.DF405560-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 07:22:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A24126CC7; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:22:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149693175825.14792.5602194924889744379.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 07:22:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Warren Kumari's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-19 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:22:38 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-netconf-18-19: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ There are no remarks associated with this position. From nobody Thu Jun 8 07:24:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B5B129431; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:24:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MWy9V0LRLxGM; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:24:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9625126CC7; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:24:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=13221; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1496931877; x=1498141477; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=wDhwT+pgf21CxrG0GgDGs+m5w8r2CAvEnsfTwFLovD4=; b=GdNBr9aSfkfQ54TYiJRMtxAj4Rq3uDM47dPEON9AATcLDRfyOddyuxyz xEyH/Y3bmIjcCbpkcpn4tHgB1ri32+0nawfMr5nNkNyDoPVvpZdfsIi2j 61aOqfmP7aX8SSkVVxusJzVWfFcgr6wkHpuMgTQpsHw0YORDUI5XyBcX7 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DMAACWXDlZ/xbLJq1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm+BS4ENg3OKGHOQd5BJhTmCESyFeAKDORgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?YAQEBAQIBIwpMBQsJAg4DBAEBKAMCAkYJCAYBDAYCAQGKHwgQkw2dYIImK4tVA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWGYYFgK4J1hDsSAVKCXIJhAQSJTY07hzK?= =?us-ascii?q?HKIwUggaFPoNLhnKMK4g9Hzh/CzAhCBsVhgaBTj42hxqCMAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,315,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="652437180" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Jun 2017 14:24:32 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v58EOVDh011949; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 14:24:32 GMT To: Mehmet Ersue , "=?UTF-8?Q?'Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind'?=" , "'The IESG'" Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org References: <149691175374.25755.13611600944260146651.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00a901d2e060$1bb673f0$53235bd0$@gmail.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 16:24:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <00a901d2e060$1bb673f0$53235bd0$@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9C6B64FAEEE161B12EC1DE8C" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_cha?= =?utf-8?q?rter-ietf-netconf-18-13=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 14:24:40 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9C6B64FAEEE161B12EC1DE8C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mehmet, > > > Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates? > > I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD > dependency. > I introduced: > > > Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols > > > > Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to > AD/IESG for > consideration as Proposed Standard > > Considering the availability of draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores > in July 2017 > > I expect the authors of NETCONF and RESTCONF-bis will need until November > > meeting to prepare a LC ready version. > Updated. Fresh from the IESG telechat, this charter is now approved. Regards, Benoit > > Cheers, > > Mehmet > > *From:*Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:18 PM > *To:* Mirja Kühlewind ; The IESG > *Cc:* netconf-chairs@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on > charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) > > Mirja, > > Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for > > charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Probably editorial comments on point 5: > > - Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/ > > Done. > > - And what's a transport message? > > I don't know the right term. Any proposal? > > Regarding the milestones: > > - Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is that > > on purpose? > > Good point. I see missing milestones for: > > 6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a > revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore > framework. > > Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates? > I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD dependency. > I introduced: > > Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols > > Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for > consideration as Proposed Standard > > - Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate > > milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close enough to > > he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone is > > actually valuable. > > I could agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and > I respect that. > > Regards, Benoit > --------------9C6B64FAEEE161B12EC1DE8C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mehmet,

> Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates?
> I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD dependency.
I introduced:

>             Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols
>
>             Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for
consideration as Proposed Standard

Considering the availability of draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores in July 2017

I expect the authors of NETCONF and RESTCONF-bis will need until November

meeting to prepare a LC ready version.

Updated.

Fresh from the IESG telechat, this charter is now approved.

Regards, Benoit

 

Cheers,

Mehmet

 

From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Mirja Kühlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: netconf-chairs@ietf.org; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT)

 

Mirja,

Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection
 
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)
 
 
 
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/
 
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Probably editorial comments on point 5:
- Maybe s/protocol-neutral/protocol-independent/

Done.

 
- And what's a transport message?

I don't know the right term. Any proposal?

 
 
Regarding the milestones:
- Is it correct that not all points listed are covered by milestones? Is that
on purpose?

Good point. I see missing milestones for:

6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a
revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore
framework. 
 

Mehmet, Mahesh, what are realistic milestone dates?
I understand this is difficult to guess, as there is a NETMOD dependency.
I introduced:

Oct 2017 WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols

Nov 2017 Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for
consideration as Proposed Standard

- Is it really needed to call out the WGLC as a separate
milestones? I've seen wg adoption as milestones but WGLC seems close enough to
he final publication/send to IESG that I don't think a separate milestone is
actually valuable.

I could agree with you, but this is the NETCONF chairs preference, and I respect that.

Regards, Benoit

 
 

--------------9C6B64FAEEE161B12EC1DE8C-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 09:16:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2420F128BA2 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:16:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LdtfZ9vRyM9S for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DA2312708C for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id d73so34394000wma.0 for ; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 09:16:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nOB1qH1OAMgfzbKeIGT3CN0jhjYLG3GWdr6KDxJ6Ees=; b=VCbHeXF8ghRTSLpVFdPP5vY7KLTOz/iG8Qe6z68y2gspcNmuQvimH3uUFPzzwfpEg6 GjH87vdciWke5IIBapJXc9OdouiQQguaNyRUak5MwZxkKqGFg4Y9JYY8YgMh28mO57i3 hrsQ510IrEhqbPiPeexh3uTmTDZ/wcR8ICLjmBYhQmHVfEJR1hW80blLCdv37FLY1C6R O3qZ9PC0N+QtU2BGozVIZc2q4iUJb68JwDS2bXHbA9fwZMEMfpKYtJ08a6cNYXpeLlVu cTPN0nSyaZNe1ezjuTV+niZN37T/8am1nUQlkpn19O3GL8kKshvuRUSPzFDffqcwKMze ektA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nOB1qH1OAMgfzbKeIGT3CN0jhjYLG3GWdr6KDxJ6Ees=; b=qWCJaLU9A1lseDDvpBq+UZFryJ0W2dfynTkLlyH4d7kUYpS5OD7sf4Kz8vjpbq0Rid cZKQjNnI15qQVmXX8cBrm1msSxtUMcNFXmGHWdmeV+DLsp8g6DyAyszyr/48oto0EabH cP9cahq8tTHGSViV3L7n2h6SzVsQDqhXIzBsxsIKozTt/V7XFAeC/wnkvHmuiFpjomOq XC7JgZtr+1h0y3Y+O4a+5ki3qCS7N/kwdU5uQ15bxTMh1D0PPxZREXgBLqVtQLRDihrV 6uLvZxOXq3u8xwLgHbpF1BTOFioGB8w3h/9DYinSenzKptqyyvxYjblSjOnMjNhQaUxS MCaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDx/ZknxTeGiqnATsKvEyK2RhVvTwNrn+NP7PYRvmlN35FBeT9c Bw6a1/Vc4Y26bobPdhBEt5Img5YdKTG1 X-Received: by 10.28.181.201 with SMTP id e192mr4458463wmf.48.1496938592884; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 09:16:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:16:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 09:16:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Vladimir Vassilev Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f55e21477130551752d8a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 16:16:38 -0000 --f403045f55e21477130551752d8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev wrote: > Hello, > > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a lot of > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with little > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate explicitly > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to avoid > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and the > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with datastores > that have different schema have limited application usecases and numerous > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this the solution should not > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have use > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I would > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores from > there. > I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library. I don't like the vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module. That is not how datastores work. It would violate the contract to advertise a capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=true nodes to be edited via the candidate datastore. The mapping from YANG object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It MUST be the same mapping on every server. > My main question is: > > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of the > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data tree > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the > conventional running/intended ... datastores. There are alternatives like > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state container or > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and you can > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895. > One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding datastore info the the 'module' list directly. > > Obviously this alternative solution will comply with requirement 5 in > draft-ietf-netmod-opstate-reqs-04 which the currently proposed > modifications break: > > IMO the requirement to inspect individial transitions (from intended to applied) for each individual leaf is total overkill, and it doesn't even work if another client changed a leaf after me. > 5. Backwards compatibility > > A. It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports > the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients. > > > This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions. There is no business-case to rewrite client applications. There is no need to require a massive "flag day" upgrade for an entire administrative domain. That would be extremely disruptive and risky, without any cost justification. The conventional datastores - running/intended, candidate ... - should > keep their default semantics with a schema tree described in > /yanglib:modules-state. IMO the requirement is similar to keeping a printf > C function (client) working despite that stdout is just another file > descriptor and at some point fprintf is introduced (environments without > file system still have printf and it works). Despite the changes of the C > language definitions programs written 40 years ago still compile and work > .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language#/me > dia/File:Hello_World_Brian_Kernighan_1978.jpg totally agree. For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - 3 years. > > > Vladimir > > Andy > On 06/05/2017 07:31 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:03:42PM +0100, t.petch wrote: >> >>> Andy >>> >>> I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get >>> more so:-( >>> >>> Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the >>> engineering >>> reality that YANG comes in YANG modules. A box will have datastores, a >>> box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to >>> modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores. In >>> relational terms, all very simple. Which RFC defines which is a >>> different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time. >>> >>> I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores, >>> albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG. >>> >>> And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the >>> IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled >>> together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have >>> been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to >>> tease out the different concepts. >>> >>> Tom, this is not an IETF problem nor is it a YANG problem. Pretty much >> any computer technology I have seen requires careful maintenance when >> the technology sees active use that goes beyond the narrow scope of >> the initial design. Read the C language definition and compare it to >> how it looked like 30-40 years ago. Take early versions of HTTP and >> compare them to what we have today. I think the key challenge is to >> sharpen architectural concepts during the evolution of the technology >> in such a way that further evolution remains feasible or even becomes >> simpler. >> >> The networking world also has changed since the work on NETCONF (and a >> bit later YANG) started. While perhaps some things were foreseeable, >> others were likely not. We also punted a few issues during the design >> process that we knew were not finally resolved. For example, some of >> the debate how we deal with operational state was even documented in >> RFC 6244 (published six years ago) and we had more discussions around >> this issue when the interfaces model was written up. >> >> Could we have designed a 'perfect' data modeling language and >> supporting protocols before doing any implementations or deployments? >> Perhaps - if we would have managed to ever complete. Would we have >> been successful in terms of deployed running code? Most likely not. In >> order to create and grow an ecosystem around a technology, you need to >> start with something that offers value and is simple enough to get >> implemented and deployed. And once you have the seeds out, you need to >> carefully evolve the technology and grow the ecosystem around it. I do >> not see this as a 'general problem' - I see this is a successful path >> to introduce (and exploit) a new technology. >> >> /js >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --f403045f55e21477130551752d8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev <= ;vladimir@tra= nspacket.com> wrote:
Hello,=

I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different datastore= s to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a lot of standardi= zation and implementation overhead and confusion with little practical valu= e. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate explicitly states the = importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to avoid comple= x mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and the correspo= nding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with datastores th= at have different schema have limited application usecases and numerous alt= ernative solutions. Even if someone needs this=C2=A0 the solution should no= t put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have us= e for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I would= very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores from= there.

I agree that there are no benef= its whatsoever to adding datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library.
I don't like the vendor-selected mapping to datastores for eac= h module.=C2=A0 That is not how datastores
work.=C2=A0 It would v= iolate the contract to advertise a capability like :candidate and not allow= certain
config=3Dtrue nodes to be edited via the candidate datas= tore.=C2=A0 The mapping from YANG object to
datastore should be a= lgorithmic, not vendor-selected. It MUST be the same mapping on every serve= r.




My main question is:

What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? ietf-datasto= res can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of the datastores tha= t do not have matching schema tree while the data tree /modules-state defin= ed in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the conventional running/inte= nded ...=C2=A0 datastores. There are alternatives like reusing the ietf-yan= g-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined /ietf-datastores:datastore= s/datastore[...]/modules-state container or schema mount /yanglib:modu= les-state container as /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modu= les-state and you can achieve the same without modifying rfc7895.

One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/n= ame instead of adding datastore info the the 'module' list directly= .
=C2=A0

Obviously this alternative solution will comply with requirement 5 in draft= -ietf-netmod-opstate-reqs-04 which the currently proposed modification= s break:


IMO the requirement to inspect individ= ial transitions (from intended to applied) for each
individual le= af is total overkill, and it doesn't even work if another client change= d
a leaf after me.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
5.=C2=A0 Backwards compatibility

A.=C2=A0 It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients.



This is critical -- especially conside= ring that the RD design team wants to replace many modules
with n= ew incompatible versions.=C2=A0 There is no business-case to rewrite client= applications.
There is no =C2=A0need to require a massive "= flag day" upgrade for an entire administrative domain.
That = would be extremely disruptive and risky, without any cost justification.


The conventional datastores -=C2=A0 running/intended, candidate ... - shoul= d keep their default semantics with a schema tree described in /yanglib:mod= ules-state. IMO the requirement is similar to=C2=A0 keeping a printf C func= tion (client) working despite that stdout is just another file descriptor a= nd at some point fprintf is introduced (environments without file system st= ill have printf and it works). Despite the changes of the C language defini= tions programs written 40 years ago still compile and work .. https://= en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language#/media/File:Hell= o_World_Brian_Kernighan_1978.jpg

t= otally agree.
For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into= /interfaces (not even sure what problem
this fixes), then the in= terfaces-state subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by
servers for 2 - 3 years.

=C2=A0


Vladimir


Andy
=C2=A0
On 06/05/2017 07:31 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:

On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 05:03:42PM +0100, t.petch wrote:
Andy

I think that the world is already complicated and that it will only get
more so:-(

Revised Datastores does not help because it largely ignores the
engineering
reality that YANG comes in YANG modules.=C2=A0 A box will have datastores, = a
box will have modules, you need a list of pointers from datastores to
modules and a list of pointers from modules to datastores.=C2=A0 In
relational terms, all very simple.=C2=A0 Which RFC defines which is a
different question, of how the semantics may evolve over time.

I think that this should be in place even without Revised Datastores,
albeit in a rudimentary form, that it is inherent in YANG.

And I think that this is a general problem with YANG, with much of the
IETF work, that initially it is all very simple and things are bundled
together and over time it becomes apparent that different things have
been merged that should not have been and then it becomes necessary to
tease out the different concepts.

Tom, this is not an IETF problem nor is it a YANG problem. Pretty much
any computer technology I have seen requires careful maintenance when
the technology sees active use that goes beyond the narrow scope of
the initial design. Read the C language definition and compare it to
how it looked like 30-40 years ago. Take early versions of HTTP and
compare them to what we have today. I think the key challenge is to
sharpen architectural concepts during the evolution of the technology
in such a way that further evolution remains feasible or even becomes
simpler.

The networking world also has changed since the work on NETCONF (and a
bit later YANG) started. While perhaps some things were foreseeable,
others were likely not. We also punted a few issues during the design
process that we knew were not finally resolved. For example, some of
the debate how we deal with operational state was even documented in
RFC 6244 (published six years ago) and we had more discussions around
this issue when the interfaces model was written up.

Could we have designed a 'perfect' data modeling language and
supporting protocols before doing any implementations or deployments?
Perhaps - if we would have managed to ever complete. Would we have
been successful in terms of deployed running code? Most likely not. In
order to create and grow an ecosystem around a technology, you need to
start with something that offers value and is simple enough to get
implemented and deployed. And once you have the seeds out, you need to
carefully evolve the technology and grow the ecosystem around it. I do
not see this as a 'general problem' - I see this is a successful pa= th
to introduce (and exploit) a new technology.

/js


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--f403045f55e21477130551752d8a-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 10:55:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F408E1200C5 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 10:55:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VkkJDMCnGyO3 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060C1126DCA for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 10:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A023B; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id FquweylEue_n; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20BD20094; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5mj0N_0RvGk7; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9C82008D; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0D6BB3FB5F1F; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 19:55:45 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Cc: Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Message-ID: <20170608175545.GA48296@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 17:55:54 -0000 On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 09:16:31AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different > > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a lot of > > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with little > > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate explicitly > > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to avoid > > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and the > > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with datastores > > that have different schema have limited application usecases and numerous > > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this the solution should not > > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have use > > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I would > > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores from > > there. > > > > I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding > datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library. I don't like the > vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module. That is not > how datastores work. It would violate the contract to advertise a > capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=true nodes > to be edited via the candidate datastore. The mapping from YANG > object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It > MUST be the same mapping on every server. Please note that this was not the intented usage; in fact we defined the 'conventional' identity on purpose in ietf-datastores in order to make it possible to announce in a concise way that a module is implemented in all 'conventional' datastores. > > My main question is: > > > > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of the > > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data tree > > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the > > conventional running/intended ... datastores. There are alternatives like > > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state container or > > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and you can > > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895. > > > > One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding > datastore info the the 'module' list directly. Yes, something like that addresses the backwards compatibility concern. > > 5. Backwards compatibility > > > > A. It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports > > the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients. > > > This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team > wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions. Trust me, it is not our goal to break backwards compatibility. If we did so, we will fix this. Claiming that the design team 'wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions' is not really helpful. > For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not > even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state > subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - > 3 years. Yes. Nobody proposed something different. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 8 12:32:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB0F1274D0 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:32:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g8Oicbv2CCmm for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x235.google.com (mail-wr0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D64D127337 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x235.google.com with SMTP id v104so22429392wrb.0 for ; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:32:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+ZNIE2nNJ4YHCAQ7ztyJnJecnlKyIn+04Yj1+2wZF7k=; b=fuaZbmZsbPR7JQAEGk154QrUzPCtF/Qtfw4yyxboGDIg4kCvf1re25jlQV9A1j7qxD 3qWleb1bVVrqUJyGGZ7DXINoH1cu7dJLiJxqpPrU/L+eYlUL5EbIr4tgh45y2iZ9ycxN F0Vue5tiQpDw8GtWUdquQ05ufz2kVyR9YzVgngqPJl55j4LSLUjQIWJgcDK9emi51T93 MQvBV6xbgEahA7dKgac7kbzHE+AWmn0CXo1SbpemWgfrct7FT8vDan5JTsrfaeP8H2b9 gDyLy0IXQDmnHi8vd6BVjKZoewC4q/QG2vVzdO6GY21fuFFVKubta2wYZQ2DMWjey3r/ GeZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=+ZNIE2nNJ4YHCAQ7ztyJnJecnlKyIn+04Yj1+2wZF7k=; b=DEGG3NO6DUVSEe5QvbqqoGlF2KZHCa9yUGLHNi/wTD933gGRIVI9BkDEWF32e0oPhv jUROoxudr+CUKOSZ4KGCb3LThE5meKZhVygdKj/XExV9dB+0NHI6Xbctm9cbHrPlM/0t z4ztoKI+dfxV98pryohj5S7CCpwG7Iz4u7mdLu/+0LXIaGMezo0pB9OzgMZmtfFzQM3X h4Xz3iySxGUFgFyC3wHmm3EODx0SNzxzMsCu5aGq9w71ZQnu1dWYK2GNzggBWvDuFBYC n9NWWW+v5daFCLV3n8kZoC1R6xEIzPcwY8VHkFvGAhzzpojV8OneD7lHuTlVHBbwqdxg zKNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcAX6KiZwju+Jg9oRbTCofVbktZE/cB6V1vDijHIyxNnE/O/PlAH jLS80vlY9P2jPmhnXw38JL7hWgFn7jec X-Received: by 10.223.173.38 with SMTP id p35mr29950569wrc.88.1496950363462; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 12:32:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:32:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170608175545.GA48296@elstar.local> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> <20170608175545.GA48296@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 12:32:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d6a936a2055177ea81" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 19:32:48 -0000 --f403045cf3d6a936a2055177ea81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 09:16:31AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev < > vladimir@transpacket.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different > > > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a > lot of > > > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with little > > > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate > explicitly > > > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to > avoid > > > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and > the > > > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with > datastores > > > that have different schema have limited application usecases and > numerous > > > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this the solution should > not > > > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have > use > > > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I > would > > > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores > from > > > there. > > > > > > > I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding > > datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library. I don't like the > > vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module. That is not > > how datastores work. It would violate the contract to advertise a > > capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=true nodes > > to be edited via the candidate datastore. The mapping from YANG > > object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It > > MUST be the same mapping on every server. > > Please note that this was not the intented usage; in fact we defined > the 'conventional' identity on purpose in ietf-datastores in order to > make it possible to announce in a concise way that a module is > implemented in all 'conventional' datastores. > I don't think the mapping is needed at all for any of the traditional datastores. The RD draft already says how to handle [candidate .. operational]. The only modules that need a mapping are special datastores like ephemeral. IMO the datastore identity in ietf-datastores needs to be used in a YANG extension in each YANG module. Susan already proposed this YANG extension I think. > > > > My main question is: > > > > > > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > > > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of > the > > > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data tree > > > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the > > > conventional running/intended ... datastores. There are alternatives > like > > > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined > > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state container or > > > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as > > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and you can > > > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895. > > > > > > > One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding > > datastore info the the 'module' list directly. > > Yes, something like that addresses the backwards compatibility concern. > > > > > 5. Backwards compatibility > > > > > > A. It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports > > > the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients. > > > > > > This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team > > wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions. > > Trust me, it is not our goal to break backwards compatibility. If we > did so, we will fix this. Claiming that the design team 'wants to > replace many modules with new incompatible versions' is not really > helpful. > I have heard they will be incompatible. If /foo and /foo-state are both defined for a few years then things should work OK. If /foo-state is taken away (even in new modules) then old clients will break. > > For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not > > even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state > > subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - > > 3 years. > > Yes. Nobody proposed something different. > > good > /js > Andy > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --f403045cf3d6a936a2055177ea81 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 09:16:31AM -0700, Andy Bierm= an wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@transpacket.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different=
> > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing= a lot of
> > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with li= ttle
> > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstat= e explicitly
> > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single s= chema to avoid
> > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf = and the
> > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices = with datastores
> > that have different schema have limited application usecases and = numerous
> > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this=C2=A0 the solut= ion should not
> > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not= have use
> > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and= I would
> > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datast= ores from
> > there.
> >
>
> I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding
> datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library.=C2=A0 I don't lik= e the
> vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module.=C2=A0 That is n= ot
> how datastores work.=C2=A0 It would violate the contract to advertise = a
> capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=3Dtrue nodes > to be edited via the candidate datastore.=C2=A0 The mapping from YANG<= br> > object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It
> MUST be the same mapping on every server.

Please note that this was not the intented usage; in fact we defined
the 'conventional' identity on purpose in ietf-datastores in order = to
make it possible to announce in a concise way that a module is
implemented in all 'conventional' datastores.
=

I don't think the mapping is needed at al= l for any of the traditional datastores.
The RD draft already say= s how to handle [candidate .. operational].
The only modules that= need a mapping are special datastores like ephemeral.
IMO the da= tastore identity in ietf-datastores needs to be used in
a YANG ex= tension in each YANG module.
Susan already proposed this YANG ext= ension I think.

=C2=A0

> > My main question is:
> >
> > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest= of the
> > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data t= ree
> > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for= the
> > conventional running/intended ...=C2=A0 datastores. There are alt= ernatives like
> > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defi= ned
> > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state con= tainer or
> > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as
> > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and= you can
> > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895.
> >
>
> One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding<= br> > datastore info the the 'module' list directly.

Yes, something like that addresses the backwards compatibility concern.
=
=C2=A0

> > 5.=C2=A0 Backwards compatibility
> >
> > A.=C2=A0 It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supp= orts
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the solution without breaking existing/legacy = clients.
> >

> This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team
> wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions.

Trust me, it is not our goal to break backwards compatibility. If we
did so, we will fix this. Claiming that the design team 'wants to
replace many modules with new incompatible versions' is not really
helpful.

I have heard they will be inco= mpatible.
If /foo and /foo-state are both defined for a few years= then things should work OK.
If /foo-state is taken away (even in= new modules) then old clients will break.


> For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not > even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state
> subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - > 3 years.

Yes. Nobody proposed something different.


good
=C2=A0
/js



Andy
=C2=A0

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--f403045cf3d6a936a2055177ea81-- From nobody Thu Jun 8 15:52:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5103F1292D3 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:52:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ekFa7uexOQHp for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:52:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7726129AFF for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id n195so39831941wmg.1 for ; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:52:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ANb85LfCR70bfz/ztVJF/OfWb4rzKe3vb540mg8bMMM=; b=ED8Yx1yxrm/19RkWkhYl0o7WXH4Ta/U33YN9ehHymUyUX6eQ1pIt5mgIiZGtq2la7w DFZckefNI6p0kXlGBuOcwm4llh5/sz1+f6j8G4kX+xHugEKW5EUOYA+cIdqLUhUePK4R aN9ztgLQ4Fj7V+L20SmGmbi9ILU4HBfvVGqkHJVj+KkPDr/Tmi/8rsZg1vUBOrwvxBSd 4WWbNE82dw20bTUokPGgridNS8xHlHZxYkRzOWxreBB0iAAujKI/rEp5yMO1sYNXxUrV SkP8wuvXyyunHDZxFhKdf9Xt8MHKW9CS8cx7hvIWd2olGYqq4/21BKyAMgmc/5DwdSH1 QTUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ANb85LfCR70bfz/ztVJF/OfWb4rzKe3vb540mg8bMMM=; b=lEfuuxnmJyEK79ucmBJSQh9+KHVdZV8+XIDZv1TTCeMM3wdmQdwgRFNLNC70fqVDe8 3GNkV/XQb8N5eeHTEv/R7UDZQbkz9/pGj43vb4JQn93iQliTjw6iv5/QmIlf9zU1340i 8jqdDvqWiBoB121od/qyas/NdYmyr7eMcQChu0dhE/JAtHFzNM5t5+ilm5D7W1SHaCJm uFvuhPFyZsIDo1gLNS+xb/jHPLCaK7O3FwWwG/KXP2VNDi97nEgpVwuCWDjxYDuSnrY2 kgntqEOND6afhlTpYsqGeiklexUN/NAgTeasNZO41reaUdXGGwe94/UmyrEYm5HBXWhg T0/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwJDCQMqnIS/atHkC5rlsHr3dY3P1mh01Zmm8MAydUcK6YxOJH6 R1d4MmBvDh559Cl14tjW2LkVFceC9Yo0 X-Received: by 10.28.151.207 with SMTP id z198mr5494962wmd.48.1496962365403; Thu, 08 Jun 2017 15:52:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:52:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170608175545.GA48296@elstar.local> References: <20170601.085606.1439041441422723123.mbj@tail-f.com> <20170601.120440.986793562283119282.mbj@tail-f.com> <00d101d2dbbc$297c1ce0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20170605173109.GA97343@elstar.local> <20170608175545.GA48296@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 15:52:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Vladimir Vassilev , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2a084d7505517ab6ea" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 22:52:49 -0000 --001a1144ea2a084d7505517ab6ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 09:16:31AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev < > vladimir@transpacket.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different > > > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing a > lot of > > > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with little > > > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstate > explicitly > > > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single schema to > avoid > > > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf and > the > > > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices with > datastores > > > that have different schema have limited application usecases and > numerous > > > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this the solution should > not > > > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not have > use > > > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and I > would > > > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datastores > from > > > there. > > > > > > > I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding > > datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library. I don't like the > > vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module. That is not > > how datastores work. It would violate the contract to advertise a > > capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=true nodes > > to be edited via the candidate datastore. The mapping from YANG > > object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It > > MUST be the same mapping on every server. > > Please note that this was not the intented usage; in fact we defined > the 'conventional' identity on purpose in ietf-datastores in order to > make it possible to announce in a concise way that a module is > implemented in all 'conventional' datastores. > > > > My main question is: > > > > > > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > > > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest of > the > > > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data tree > > > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for the > > > conventional running/intended ... datastores. There are alternatives > like > > > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defined > > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state container or > > > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as > > > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and you can > > > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895. > > > > > > > One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding > > datastore info the the 'module' list directly. > > Yes, something like that addresses the backwards compatibility concern. > > > > 5. Backwards compatibility > > > > > > A. It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supports > > > the solution without breaking existing/legacy clients. > > > > > > This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team > > wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions. > > Trust me, it is not our goal to break backwards compatibility. If we > did so, we will fix this. Claiming that the design team 'wants to > replace many modules with new incompatible versions' is not really > helpful. > > I have not seen a detailed proposal for "RD transition strategy" and I am supposed to write something for 6087bis. Here is my first draft of a solution: extension datastore-relocate { argument path; description "If present in a config=false data node, indicates where the data is re-mapped for revised datastore usage."; } container foo { ... } container foo-state { status deprecated. config false; rd:datastore-relocate "/ex:foo"; // config=false leafs follow } The /foo-state subtree only exists if is used. If the the new is used to retrieve the operational datastore, the server will relocate the /foo-state contents as child nodes of /foo. The actual YANG objects in /foo-state are not cut-and-pasted or shared via groupings. RD-aware clients and servers MUST support the rd:datastore-relocate extension. Other YANG extensions to support datastore mappings are probably needed as well. After the transition period (3 years?) the /foo-state objects will no longer be defined and the datastore-relocate extension can be phased out. Andy > For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not > > even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state > > subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - > > 3 years. > > Yes. Nobody proposed something different. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --001a1144ea2a084d7505517ab6ea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 09:16:31AM -0700, Andy Bierm= an wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 4:45 AM, Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@transpacket.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was following this thread with interest. IMO allowing different=
> > datastores to have different schema trees is flexibility bringing= a lot of
> > standardization and implementation overhead and confusion with li= ttle
> > practical value. The original draft-openconfig-netmod-opstat= e explicitly
> > states the importance of keeping single schema "... single s= chema to avoid
> > complex mapping between a particular intended configuration leaf = and the
> > corresponding applied configuration". Schizophrenic devices = with datastores
> > that have different schema have limited application usecases and = numerous
> > alternative solutions. Even if someone needs this=C2=A0 the solut= ion should not
> > put overhead and complexity on the mainstream devices that do not= have use
> > for such flexibility. The ietf-yang-library module is special and= I would
> > very much like to see a solution that does not import ietf-datast= ores from
> > there.
> >
>
> I agree that there are no benefits whatsoever to adding
> datastore-related objects to iewtf-yang-library.=C2=A0 I don't lik= e the
> vendor-selected mapping to datastores for each module.=C2=A0 That is n= ot
> how datastores work.=C2=A0 It would violate the contract to advertise = a
> capability like :candidate and not allow certain config=3Dtrue nodes > to be edited via the candidate datastore.=C2=A0 The mapping from YANG<= br> > object to datastore should be algorithmic, not vendor-selected. It
> MUST be the same mapping on every server.

Please note that this was not the intented usage; in fact we defined
the 'conventional' identity on purpose in ietf-datastores in order = to
make it possible to announce in a concise way that a module is
implemented in all 'conventional' datastores.

> > My main question is:
> >
> > What would be wrong with a solution leaving rfc7895 unchanged? > > ietf-datastores can have similar data - schema trees for the rest= of the
> > datastores that do not have matching schema tree while the data t= ree
> > /modules-state defined in ietf-yang-library remains the model for= the
> > conventional running/intended ...=C2=A0 datastores. There are alt= ernatives like
> > reusing the ietf-yang-library groupings in a ietf-datastores defi= ned
> > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state con= tainer or
> > schema mount /yanglib:modules-state container as
> > /ietf-datastores:datastores/datastore[...]/modules-state and= you can
> > achieve the same without modifying rfc7895.
> >
>
> One can use a leafref to /modules-state/module/name instead of adding<= br> > datastore info the the 'module' list directly.

Yes, something like that addresses the backwards compatibility concern.

> > 5.=C2=A0 Backwards compatibility
> >
> > A.=C2=A0 It MUST be possible to upgrade a server to one that supp= orts
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the solution without breaking existing/legacy = clients.
> >

> This is critical -- especially considering that the RD design team
> wants to replace many modules with new incompatible versions.

Trust me, it is not our goal to break backwards compatibility. If we
did so, we will fix this. Claiming that the design team 'wants to
replace many modules with new incompatible versions' is not really
helpful.



I have not seen a detai= led proposal for "RD transition strategy" and I am
supp= osed to write something for 6087bis.

Here is my fi= rst draft of a solution:

=C2=A0 extension datastor= e-relocate {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0argument path;
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "If pre= sent in a config=3Dfalse data node, indicates where the data is re-mapped
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for revised datastore usage.&quo= t;;
=C2=A0 }


=C2=A0 conta= iner foo { ... }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container foo-state = {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 status deprecated.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 config false;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rd:datastore-relocate = "/ex:foo";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 // config=3Dfalse leafs= follow
=C2=A0 }


The /foo= -state subtree only exists if <get> is used.
If the the new= <get-data> is used to retrieve the operational datastore,
= the server will relocate the /foo-state contents as child nodes of /foo.
The actual YANG objects in /foo-state are not cut-and-pasted or
shared via groupings.

RD-aware clients and = servers MUST support the rd:datastore-relocate extension.
Other Y= ANG extensions to support datastore mappings are probably needed as well.

After the transition period (3 years?) the /foo-sta= te objects will no longer
be defined and the datastore-relocate e= xtension can be phased out.


Andy



> For example, if /interfaces-state is collapsed into /interfaces (not > even sure what problem this fixes), then the interfaces-state
> subtree should be deprecated, and still supported by servers for 2 - > 3 years.

Yes. Nobody proposed something different.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Jun 2017 08:14:57 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.37] (ams-bclaise-nitro4.cisco.com [10.55.221.37]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v598Evn7001873; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:14:57 GMT To: Mehmet Ersue , "'Netconf'" References: <005801d2c451$b2499ed0$16dcdc70$@gmail.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <7fbf8be2-2404-9564-172a-71e7d8c73254@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:14:55 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <005801d2c451$b2499ed0$16dcdc70$@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DAEC88D069BFAFE00BA0B036" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Resigning from NETCONF Co-chair Position => Kent Watsen as new co-chair X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 08:15:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DAEC88D069BFAFE00BA0B036 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, Kent Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting _after _the IETF meeting in Prague. By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will be in last call. Kent, being already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more synergy between the NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and deliverables are closely connected. Congrats Kent and thanks again Mehmet. Regards, Benoit > > Dear NETCONF WG, > > as I informed Benoit and Mahesh, after 9 years I’m going to resign > from WG co-chair position effective with the end of IETF #99 meeting. > > Thank You very much for your kind support all the years. > > People interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD > soon. > > Regards, > Mehmet > --------------DAEC88D069BFAFE00BA0B036 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear all,

Kent Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting after the IETF meeting in Prague.
By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will be in last call.
Kent, being already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more synergy between the NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and deliverables are closely connected.

Congrats Kent and thanks again Mehmet.

Regards, Benoit

Dear NETCONF WG,

 

as I informed Benoit and Mahesh, after 9 years I’m going to resign from WG co-chair position effective with the end of IETF #99 meeting.

Thank You very much for your kind support all the years.     

 

People interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD soon.

 

Regards,
Mehmet

 


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XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com ([173.37.102.16]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:39:43 -0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] ietf-tls/ssh groupings CA certs and peer certs Thread-Index: AQHS367qJ4Ln2L5JWUaegYIadGkpJaIcmn2AgABYFwD//5nAAA== Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:39:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <91FDB5FF-EF24-4234-AD81-DA1830DC156A@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <91FDB5FF-EF24-4234-AD81-DA1830DC156A@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.33.248.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BB31E299777249318C8CC258F193CE1Eciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] ietf-tls/ssh groupings CA certs and peer certs X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list 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D4lFAEHPZtXC7FuvdYEFku+bUlpB04asOt/2/Mv4O+H5jsTt0kkNfdzofapblidGx1KL ZosQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDznpb5CTYODInBUNGprAsujIjmT/OMSF63awaFSYlLhv0l37hf mOjQkR4FntFZJA== X-Received: by 10.98.133.88 with SMTP id u85mr43423438pfd.211.1497027358424; Fri, 09 Jun 2017 09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc-mahesh-nitro4.cisco.com ([128.107.241.165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm2991218pfe.94.2017.06.09.09.55.56 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 09 Jun 2017 09:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F517559F-B912-4E2C-817B-864C5EC4F251" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <7fbf8be2-2404-9564-172a-71e7d8c73254@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 09:55:59 -0700 Cc: Mehmet Ersue , Netconf , Kent Watsen Message-Id: <2C95A02B-7666-4CED-922D-E59429406654@gmail.com> References: <005801d2c451$b2499ed0$16dcdc70$@gmail.com> <7fbf8be2-2404-9564-172a-71e7d8c73254@cisco.com> To: Benoit Claise X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Resigning from NETCONF Co-chair Position => Kent Watsen as new co-chair X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:56:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F517559F-B912-4E2C-817B-864C5EC4F251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Congratulations Kent. Welcome on board. Thanks again to Mehmet for his years in NETCONF. > On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:14 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Kent Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting after the IETF = meeting in Prague. > By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will be in last call.=20 > Kent, being already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more synergy = between the NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and = deliverables are closely connected. >=20 > Congrats Kent and thanks again Mehmet. >=20 > Regards, Benoit >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> =20 >> as I informed Benoit and Mahesh, after 9 years I=92m going to resign = from WG co-chair position effective with the end of IETF #99 meeting.=20 >> Thank You very much for your kind support all the years. =20 >> =20 >> People interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD = soon. >> =20 >> Regards,=20 >> Mehmet=20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_F517559F-B912-4E2C-817B-864C5EC4F251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Congratulations Kent. Welcome on board.

Thanks again to Mehmet for his years in = NETCONF.

On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:14 AM, = Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Dear all,

Kent = Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting after the IETF meeting in = Prague.
By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will = be in last call. 
Kent, being already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more = synergy between the NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and = deliverables are closely connected.

Congrats = Kent and thanks again Mehmet.

Regards, = Benoit
Dear NETCONF WG,
 
as I informed Benoit and = Mahesh, after 9 years I=92m going to resign from WG co-chair position = effective with the end of IETF #99 meeting. 
Thank You very much for your = kind support all the years.      
 
People = interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD soon.
 
Regards, 
Mehmet 
 



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_F517559F-B912-4E2C-817B-864C5EC4F251-- From nobody Fri Jun 9 10:22:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A39112871F; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 10:22:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <149702894241.29932.2114072515105911592.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 10:22:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG Action: Rechartered Network Configuration (netconf) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2017 17:22:23 -0000 The Network Configuration (netconf) WG in the Operations and Management Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. Network Configuration (netconf) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Active WG Chairs: Mahesh Jethanandani Mehmet Ersue Assigned Area Director: Benoit Claise Operations and Management Area Directors: Warren Kumari Benoit Claise Mailing list: Address: netconf@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/netconf/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/netconf/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ The NETCONF Working Group, previously named after the NETCONF protocol, now renamed as the NETwork CONFiguration Working Group, is responsible for the development and maintenance of protocols for YANG data model driven management, for the necessary framework where these protocols run, and for the YANG modules that formalize protocol behavior and are required from a protocol perspective. The NETCONF protocol (RFC 6241) provides mechanisms to install, manipulate, and delete the configuration of network devices. NETCONF is based on secure transport (SSH is mandatory to implement while TLS is an optional transport). The NETCONF protocol is data modeling language independent, but YANG (RFC 7950) is the recommended NETCONF data modeling language, which introduces advanced language features for configuration management. The NETCONF WG published the RESTCONF protocol (RFC 8040) which provides an interface over HTTPS for accessing data defined in YANG. RESTCONF is based on the capabilities of, and uses the datastore concept defined in, the NETCONF protocol specification. In support of RESTCONF the YANG Patch (RFC 8072) mechanism has been provided for applying patches to configuration datastores. The YANG Module Library (RFC 7895) provides information about all YANG modules used by a network management server. Last but not least NETCONF and RESTCONF Call Home (RFC 8071) have been developed, which enable a server to initiate a secure connection to a NETCONF or RESTCONF client respectively. In the current phase of NETCONF's incremental development the Working Group will focus on following items: 1. Finalize the YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism, which can be used to hold asymmetric private keys and certificates that are trusted by the system advertising support for this module. Based on the known dependencies (multiple NETCONF documents), this draft has the highest priority for the WG. 2. Finalize Server and Client Configuration YANG modules for both NETCONF and RESTCONF as well as the Client and Server Models for SSH and TLS. 3. Finalize the Zero-touch provisioning for NETCONF or RESTCONF-based Management as a technique to establish a secure network management relationship between a newly delivered network device configured with just its factory default settings, and the Network Management System. 4. Provide a revised version of NETCONF Access Control Model (RFC 6536) by adding support for RESTCONF and for YANG 1.1 constructs like "action" and the (locally-scoped) "notification" statements. 5. Provide a set of documents enabling advanced notification/subscription capabilities, which gracefully co-exist with deployments of NETCONF Event Notification (RFC 5277). The new capabilities include transport independence and multiple dynamic and configured subscriptions in a single transport session. RFC 5277 will be obsoleted in parallel with the publication of the new document set. The following specifications will be published: - A protocol-independent notification framework, explaining the concepts of subscriptions, filters, subscription state notifications, replay, etc. and defining the associated YANG data model, RPCs, etc. - Definition of notifications sent over NETCONF and HTTP. Examples for the encoding of YANG notifications in XML and JSON will be given and considerations for parallel support and implementation compatibility with RFC 5277 will be included. - Definition of notifications sent over RESTCONF and HTTP2 and of how YANG notifications are encoded in XML and JSON, including specifics of call-home and heartbeat for subscriptions. - The subscription and push mechanism for YANG datastores allowing subscriber applications to request updates from a YANG datastore. - Definition of transport agnostic notification headers and of a mechanism for bundling multiple YANG notifications into a single message. 6. Based on the revised datastore concept work in NETMOD, provide a revision for the NETCONF and RESTCONF protocols and the used datastore framework. 7. Coordinate with I2RS to support the I2RS profile use of RESTCONF and, optionally, NETCONF, and the I2RS dynamic datastore(s). Based on the implementation, deployment experience and interoperability testing, the WG aims to produce a NETCONF status report in a later stage. The result may be clarifications for NETCONF Protocol (RFC6241) and NETCONF over SSH (RFC6242) and addressing any reported errata. Milestones: Jun 2017 - WGLC for RFC 6536bis (NETCONF Access Control Model) Jul 2017 - Submit RFC 6536bis to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Jul 2017 - WGLC for Zero-touch Configuration Mechanism Jul 2017 - WGLC for System-level Keystore Mechanism Jul 2017 - WGLC for Server and Client Configuration Models for NETCONF and RESTCONF Jul 2017 - WGLC for Client and Server Configuration Models for SSH and TLS Jul 2017 - WGLC for advanced Notification/Subscription Specifications Aug 2017 - Submit Zero-touch Configuration Mechanism to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Aug 2017 - Submit System-level Keystore Mechanism to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Aug 2017 - Submit Server and Client Configuration Models for NETCONF and RESTCONF to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Aug 2017 - Submit Client and Server Models Configuration Models for SSH and TLS to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Aug 2017 - Submit Notification/Subscription Specifications to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard Nov 2017 - WGLC for NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols Dec 2017 - Submit NETCONF and RESTCONF bis protocols to AD/IESG for consideration as Proposed Standard From nobody Fri Jun 9 23:49:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87F91293D8 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 23:49:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUN45bSgn-Xz for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 23:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CF461205F1 for ; Fri, 9 Jun 2017 23:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B82677; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id qGg8E-4al6yP; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D71820090; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cubz49CUQ7JS; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9442008D; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 26CBD3FB9673; Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:49:07 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170610064907.GA49908@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <1D271DFF-FD0A-44EB-9EA3-0B39D160E8A1@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1D271DFF-FD0A-44EB-9EA3-0B39D160E8A1@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Should NC/RC-client models be groupings (not containers)? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:49:16 -0000 On Mon, Jun 05, 2017 at 05:28:02PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > This is my last issue from Chicago. > Here's the slide I presented then: > > Having a container for NC/RC-servers makes sense > - since the server's backend must have the code implementing > the modules it supports. > > But clients are different > - A client must have business logic of some sort to do something. > Specifically, an NC/RC client needs to be linked into an application > that orchestrates its function. > > That being the case, how can a client ever be configured on its own? > - Shouldn't the application itself be the thing that is configured? > > Should these client models be groupings instead of containers? > > > To be clear, assuming no objections, I plan to convert ietf-netconf-client > and ietf-restconf-client from defining a container to defining a grouping. In the LMAP working group, we have RC clients that are co-located with an RC server and these combinations are distributed in the network to do measurements. (The RC clients are used to post measurement results to an RC server.) So for this use case, it would be nice to have a concrete data model that can be implemented. So why not do both, define proper groupings but also offer an instantiation of the groupings that can be used directly? /js PS: I do not really see the difference between an application or a router - both can have modular configuration data models. I think the real difference is that we usually do not expect applications to be configurable via NC/RC. -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jun 12 05:20:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB64129503 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 05:20:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com Received: from 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c3bXg5GaOU0wf/Tv6B2dTw39KzsrpinTg43yvkM0UqE=; b=syuE6aBKXJPiwcNPi6tmUvXBlomPkzNasxEdGnnqQIm7yZi4XIsvMVELWsxO8WgDUZ 8q9edghSZNk50gre4gDSu/U//pT23SR4JmkFgo97IGhtjJZeebfqa2D5J8F4LaawPmwa bdsgt5R+BC9L0HS16u17UUtanDXIcmNkx5dYl4Bqk4oa4+1bqWQ3wwRhjZWABoULF7Sv XAt4N6oi4G1Yrbcwb8OlDm8SDibEPVa48GWVRM6o0JHPEy6nSt/g5p324gcv08HYJZxY 1nVjGdiplx8qyOxbf2ATV0z4bE1ILyvlfRp+x/6ldFdwVJqFSD1l2mmIUU8Rj0BKGdEO 0ojw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c3bXg5GaOU0wf/Tv6B2dTw39KzsrpinTg43yvkM0UqE=; b=pSpIyse7Kr6LIB0SEKqLT2yxVERDSyUdUuiWHurTlj/bHUKsxjU1g1OEjmAo6xeP5I ZjJbFTmYOYEn8hXTySLxPrc3WeQofsOhKHtIL+oKs76rR3AvLwmvFdVv4iF1IrzoSzrd nMbUNrovT8mtB3fkaYFsZKwbrAVWCm8vAT8WAPYl7U1vAXrZZeOGJeihNhyVvmn6gBfy 6ZS4zd2uREFYTm7zzJyhkfTUUhyECtLcFj+Exd7GTlOIcsgX598HkliLd/phezvq+HpH ebQDuIZohCgGw86zLHtVRkAXE66cXGB5+rrU4u03iaW4HH+I1v3fTONX1nhIw7YM86FO Kwxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDJKHaFbhdtfcBHdyu7FRatHwGYudyOQoBXLXcArsNqUz0TRyXG oo5WN0bT3f2lom6ETTdVoyjhMF5QrQ== X-Received: by 10.37.206.198 with SMTP id x189mr23752668ybe.46.1497275657569; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:54:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.172.160 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149669675574.3172.18193455633517784838.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 08:54:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Benoit Claise Cc: The IESG , netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19029cb34aaa0551c3a7e8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:54:22 -0000 --94eb2c19029cb34aaa0551c3a7e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Benoit, On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Spencer, > >> Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >> charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-netconf/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I have a few minor comments, but this looks clear and plausible. >> >> In this text, >> >> 1. Finalize the YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism, >> which can be used to hold asymmetric private keys and certificates that >> are >> trusted by the system advertising support for this module. Based on the >> known >> dependencies this draft has the highest priority for the WG. >> >> I thought it might be helpful to say who has these dependencies, not in >> detail, but just at the "other working groups", "other SDOs", "open >> source community", "all of the above" level. >> > All dependencies are within NETCONF WG > Details here: > https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/impact_analysis.php? > modules[]=ietf-tls-client&modules[]=ietf-tls-server&modules[ > ]=ietf-ssh-client&modules[]=ietf-ssh-server&modules[]= > ietf-restconf-client&modules[]=ietf-restconf-server&modules[ > ]=ietf-key-store&modules[]=ietf-netconf-client&modules[]= > ietf-netconf-server&orgs[]=ietf&recurse=0&rfcs=1&show_subm=1 > > In the charter text, I added the parentheses to the sentence: > Based on the knowndependencies (multiple NETCONF documents), this > draft has the highest priority for the WG. That's much clearer (and not what I thought the original text was saying at all - thanks!) If this is a cut and paste, there's a missing space between "known" and "dependencies". > > >> I counted something like seven items that apply to both NETCONF and >> RESTCONF/HTTP2. Is the intention that these are two protocols that will >> continue to evolve, but in lockstep? I think you're headed that way, but >> I'm not sure. If so, saying that would be good. >> > It depends what we mean by lockstep. > NETCONF and RESTCONF have different protocol capabilities. However, what > is common is that both must transport YANG encoded information. I'm sorry for asking a poorly formed question. I think a more coherent version would be, "is it the intention that the YANG encoded information transported by both protocols will be the same", but that's probably not quite right, either. What I'm asking is, are you expecting that both protocols will carry any new extensions, maybe? But I was asking whether you expected the working group to take on new work that didn't apply to both NETCONF and RESTCONF. > > For all the other RFCs listed in the charter, the name of the RFC is also >> provided (sometimes the name is in parens, other times the RFC number is >> in parens, but they're always together), except for RFC 5277 which is >> invoked without providing its name. Could you adjust the first mention of >> RFC 5277 to match the others? >> > Done. > > Thanks for your feedback. > Oh, thank you :-) Spencer > > Regards, B. > >> >> >> . >> >> > --94eb2c19029cb34aaa0551c3a7e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Benoit,

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Benoit Claise = <bclaise@cisco.co= m> wrote:
Hi Spencer,
Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
charter-ietf-netconf-18-13: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)



The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-= ietf-netconf/



-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
COMMENT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

I have a few minor comments, but this looks clear and plausible.

In this text,

1. Finalize the YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism,
which can be used to hold asymmetric private keys and certificates that
are
trusted by the system advertising support for this module. Based on the
known
dependencies this draft has the highest priority for the WG.

I thought it might be helpful to say who has these dependencies, not in
detail, but just at the "other working groups", "other SDOs&= quot;, "open
source community", "all of the above" level.
 All dependencies are within NETCONF WG
Details here:
https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/impac= t_analysis.php?modules[]=3Dietf-tls-client&modules[]=3Dietf-t= ls-server&modules[]=3Dietf-ssh-client&modules[]=3Dietf-ss= h-server&modules[]=3Dietf-restconf-client&modules[]=3Diet= f-restconf-server&modules[]=3Dietf-key-store&modules[]=3D= ietf-netconf-client&modules[]=3Dietf-netconf-server&orgs[]=3D<= wbr>ietf&recurse=3D0&rfcs=3D1&show_subm=3D1

In the charter text, I added the parentheses to the sentence:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Based on the knowndependencies (multiple NETCONF documents), = this draft has the highest priority for the WG.

=
That's much clearer (and not what I thought the original text was = saying at all - thanks!)

If this is a cut and past= e, there's a missing space between "known" and "dependen= cies".
=C2=A0


I counted something like seven items that apply to both NETCONF and
RESTCONF/HTTP2. Is the intention that these are two protocols that will
continue to evolve, but in lockstep? I think you're headed that way, bu= t
I'm not sure. If so, saying that would be good.
 It depends what we mean by lockstep.
NETCONF and RESTCONF have different protocol capabilities. However, what is= common is that both must transport YANG encoded information.
<= div>
I'm sorry for asking a poorly formed question. I thi= nk a more coherent version would be, "is it the intention that the YAN= G encoded information transported by both protocols will be the same",= but that's probably not quite right, either. What I'm asking is, a= re you expecting that both protocols will carry any new extensions, maybe?<= /div>

But I was asking whether you expected the working = group to take on new work that didn't apply to both NETCONF and RESTCON= F.
=C2=A0
For all the other RFCs listed in the charter, the name of the RFC is also provided (sometimes the name is in parens, other times the RFC number is in parens, but they're always together), except for RFC 5277 which is invoked without providing its name. Could you adjust the first mention of RFC 5277 to match the others?
 Done.

Thanks for your feedback.

Oh, thank you= :-)

Spencer
=C2=A0

Regards, B.


.



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13 Jun 2017 08:44:56 -0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBLb3bDoWNz?= , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] ietf-tls/ssh groupings CA certs and peer certs Thread-Index: AQHS367qJ4Ln2L5JWUaegYIadGkpJaIcmn2AgABYFwD//5nAAIAE9IiAgAAHXQCAATzFAP//8JgA Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 13:44:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <91FDB5FF-EF24-4234-AD81-DA1830DC156A@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.49.142] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A3CA0473D74D4B61B7CFA8BA1556DA6Fciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] ietf-tls/ssh groupings CA certs and peer certs X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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<5887CF08-6374-44F1-89B3-59ECCE8A039E@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:13:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f55e2c1e7570551debff2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 22:13:49 -0000 --f403045f55e2c1e7570551debff2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > Hi Andy, > > > > > ...I'm concerned by the implication that > > servers will implement NACM. > > > > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, > > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG modules > > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those > > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that > > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these > > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. > > > > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: > > > > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., > > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server > > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have > > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit > > access control rule is required for all other users. > > > > It seems that the description statements should say something that > > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > > NACM. > > > > Thoughts? > > I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all > should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80= =9D. By that > extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop reference to a > similar statement? > > This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NACM. > > > > [KENT] How so? we're just trying to fix the extension statement > descriptions to > > useful to servers that don't use NACM also... > > > > > > > > The extension statement applies to implementations of NACM. Nothing else. > > Put text in the description-stmt if you want server behavior outside of > NACM. > > > > > > You probably know that NACM is a rather simplistic ACM model. > > It might be useful for some NEs (though I don't know who's, I don=E2=80= =99t know of > > any implementations of NACM), but large-scale controller apps use more > robust > > models. The IETF models are only marked up with these NACM extension- > > statements. What do you expect systems not using NACM to do? The chang= e > > I propose is simple and does not break backwards compatibility, but it th= e > WG > > decides to not make this change to the NACM draft, then I propose we star= t > > working on another draft that defines generic security assertion > statements that > > are not tied to any particular ACM implementation. > > > > > I think it is rather easy for a developer to separate the NACM-specific details. Another ACM can figure out how default-deny-write and default-deny-all applies to them. > K. > > > Andy --f403045f55e2c1e7570551debff2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

Hi Andy,<= u>

=C2=A0

> ...I'm concerned by the implication that
> servers will implement NACM.
>
> NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented,
> and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG mod= ules
> with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those<= br> > that don't implement NACM.=C2=A0 We are (at least I am) expecting = that
> servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these
> NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules.
>
> Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0/nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCO= NF server
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0will only allow the designated 'recovery session' = to have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0read, write, or execute access to the node.=C2=A0 An expli= cit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0access control rule is required for all other users.
>
> It seems that the description statements should say something that
> makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > NACM.
>
> Thoughts?

I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all s= hould remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80=9D.= By that extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop referen= ce to a similar statement?

This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NA= CM.

=C2=A0

[KENT] How so?=C2=A0 we're just trying to fix th= e extension statement descriptions to

useful to servers that don't use NACM also...=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The extension statement applies to implementations o= f NACM. Nothing else.

Put text in the description-stmt if you want server = behavior outside of NACM.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<KENT> You probably know that NACM is a rather= simplistic ACM model.

It might be useful for some NEs (though I don't = know who's, I don=E2=80=99t know of

any implementations of NACM), but large-scale contro= ller apps use more robust

models. =C2=A0=C2=A0The IETF models are only marked = up with these NACM extension-

statements.=C2=A0 What do you expect systems not usi= ng NACM to do?=C2=A0 =C2=A0The change

I propose is simple and does not break backwards com= patibility, but it the WG

decides to not make this change to the NACM draft, t= hen I propose we start

working on another draft that defines generic securi= ty assertion statements that

are not tied to any particular ACM implementation.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


I think it is rather easy for a develop= er to separate the NACM-specific details.
Another ACM can figure = out how default-deny-write and default-deny-all
applies to them.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0
=

K.

=C2=A0


Andy

--f403045f55e2c1e7570551debff2-- From nobody Tue Jun 13 16:44:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7667129489; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:44:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149739744083.7461.6763643372848103114@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:44:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:44:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : Keystore Model Author : Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2017-06-13 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data module for a system-level keystore mechanism, that might be used to hold onto private keys and certificates that are trusted by the system advertising support for this module. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 13 16:47:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C636128B91; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:46:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149739761434.7653.5957899446135848345@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:46:54 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:46:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : SSH Client and Server Models Authors : Kent Watsen Gary Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2017-06-13 Abstract: This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings for a generic SSH client, the second defines groupings for a generic SSH server, and the third defines common identities and groupings used by both the client and the server. It is intended that these groupings will be used by applications using the SSH protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 13 16:49:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D0612EAB3; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:49:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149739774782.7444.5193602704561335322@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:49:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:49:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : TLS Client and Server Models Authors : Kent Watsen Gary Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2017-06-13 Abstract: This document defines three YANG modules: the first defines groupings for a generic TLS client, the second defines groupings for a generic TLS server, and the third defines common identities and groupings used by both the client and the server. It is intended that these groupings will be used by applications using the TLS protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 13 16:53:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E533712EB77; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:53:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149739798092.7612.991985160605547637@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:53:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:53:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : NETCONF Client and Server Models Authors : Kent Watsen Gary Wu Juergen Schoenwaelder Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2017-06-13 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a NETCONF client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server. Both modules support both the SSH and TLS transport protocols, and support both standard NETCONF and NETCONF Call Home connections. Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. No other RFC Editor instructions are specified elsewhere in this document. This document contains references to other drafts in progress, both in the Normative References section, as well as in body text throughout. Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore o I-D.ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server o I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client-server Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft o "YYYY" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-ssh-client- server o "ZZZZ" --> the assigned RFC value for I-D.ietf-netconf-tls-client- server Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2017-06-13" --> the publication date of this draft The following Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 13 16:54:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F41312956B; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:54:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149739804661.7517.11137200261390158899@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 16:54:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:54:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : RESTCONF Client and Server Models Authors : Kent Watsen Juergen Schoenwaelder Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2017-06-13 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules, one module to configure a RESTCONF client and the other module to configure a RESTCONF server. Both modules support the TLS transport protocol with both standard RESTCONF and RESTCONF Call Home connections. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 13 17:04:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373D612EB80 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 17:04:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cGz4oDAHcnG8 for ; 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Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:04:08 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: keystore and the client/server drafts Thread-Index: AQHS5KG+b6DHO32mDkCd5oYG5wpcuQ== Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 00:04:08 +0000 Message-ID: <28DB27E9-80D3-41BE-9AD5-E4CDEACD7A22@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1169; 7: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 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dad92f70-2e4c-447c-76c7-08d4b2b8e129 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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Tue, 13 Jun 2017 20:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BCa2F2tXc7hM for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 20:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B43512949F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 20:43:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.175.84; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Mahesh Jethanandani'" , "'Benoit Claise'" Cc: "'Netconf'" References: <005801d2c451$b2499ed0$16dcdc70$@gmail.com> <7fbf8be2-2404-9564-172a-71e7d8c73254@cisco.com> <2C95A02B-7666-4CED-922D-E59429406654@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2C95A02B-7666-4CED-922D-E59429406654@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 23:37:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001801d2e4bf$8cf727e0$a6e577a0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01D2E49E.05E7F8E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLlHsZErMvgTAs657KeniKdIDx+swF44FEBAekKYe+f5DHyAA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Resigning from NETCONF Co-chair Position => Kent Watsen as new co-chair X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 03:43:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D2E49E.05E7F8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations Kent! Mehmet - I shall miss Mehmet with all his tactful and kind aids to those new in NETCONF. Sue Hares From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 12:56 PM To: Benoit Claise Cc: Netconf Subject: Re: [Netconf] Resigning from NETCONF Co-chair Position => Kent Watsen as new co-chair Congratulations Kent. Welcome on board. Thanks again to Mehmet for his years in NETCONF. On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:14 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: Dear all, Kent Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting after the IETF meeting in Prague. By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will be in last call. Kent, being already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more synergy between the NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and deliverables are closely connected. Congrats Kent and thanks again Mehmet. Regards, Benoit Dear NETCONF WG, as I informed Benoit and Mahesh, after 9 years I'm going to resign from WG co-chair position effective with the end of IETF #99 meeting. Thank You very much for your kind support all the years. People interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD soon. Regards, Mehmet Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D2E49E.05E7F8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations Kent!

 

Mehmet -  I shall miss Mehmet with all his tactful and kind aids = to those new in NETCONF.

 

Sue Hares

 

From:= = Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh = Jethanandani
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 12:56 PM
To: = Benoit Claise
Cc: Netconf
Subject: Re: [Netconf] = Resigning from NETCONF Co-chair Position =3D> Kent Watsen as new = co-chair

 

Congratulations Kent. Welcome on = board.

 

Thanks again to Mehmet for his years in = NETCONF.

 

 

Dear = all,

Kent Watsen will be the new NETCONF co-chair, starting after the IETF meeting in = Prague.
By Prague, most of Kent's NETCONF documents will be in last = call. 
Kent, being = already the NETMOD co-chair, will bring some more synergy between the = NETCONF and NETMOD WGs, two WGs whose future and deliverables are = closely connected.

Congrats Kent and thanks again = Mehmet.

Regards, Benoit

Dear NETCONF WG,=

 =

as I informed Benoit and Mahesh, after 9 years I’m going to = resign from WG co-chair position effective with the end of IETF #99 = meeting. =

Thank You very much for your kind support all the = years.      =

 =

People interested to become NETCONF WG co-chair please contact our AD = soon.=

 =

Regards, 
Mehmet =

 =

 

 

Mahesh Jethanandani

 

 

 

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Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc-mahesh-nitro7.cisco.com ([128.107.241.191]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 71sm1087103pgd.57.2017.06.14.10.43.06 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <28DB27E9-80D3-41BE-9AD5-E4CDEACD7A22@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:43:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <28DB27E9-80D3-41BE-9AD5-E4CDEACD7A22@juniper.net> To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 17:43:13 -0000 With these updates, the chairs plan on starting a Last Call on these = documents in a weeks time. If anyone has concerns about the status of = these documents, this would be a good time to speak up. Cheers. > On Jun 13, 2017, at 5:04 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dear WG, >=20 > These latest updates reflect all comments received and close all of=20 > the open issues. At this point, there are no more issues to resolve. > I believe that these drafts are now ready for Last Call. >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03 > = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh & Mehmet. From nobody Wed Jun 14 10:48:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE39C12878D for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6SHt_6UgidC for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BF22120726 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7085D697; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 73alSTkVTRL4; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6682009B; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oBGJRhUW054H; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4FE20094; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C49273FC1C66; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:48:40 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 17:48:46 -0000 On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 04:31:43PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > 2) Juergen suggests the ietf-netconf-client and ietf-restconf-client > modules have both groupings and containers (the latest update > only has groupings). While it may be possible for a NC/RC client > to not need any configuration above and beyond what's provided in > these groupings, this seems like a corner case not worth supporting, > and hence why the current modules don't have any containers. > a) LMAP has a need for this since LMAP has RC clients that invoke an RPCs on a server and it is necessary to provide them with the necessary credentials etc. Perhaps this is what you call a corner case, but it is then at least an IETF WG corner case. b) Other configuration parameters can be (and typically are) in other modules. c) The argument we don't add a container since there is no container is circular or at least not helpful. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 14 12:26:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDBC12EB10 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6xXsocSgUeh1 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECBEE128D40 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id s3so6390957oia.0 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=lAOubecdiq2nYdf8PB8rZMpMmZHpMqk1LEe9Hq7qKnI=; b=pvnCABoUxF0UedLSt+DftNkQ9ryhkmTJLAkZk+SI+xCgdr4lcSz4AmIKYTV5Xg0Uhv mPGkXiSDAg6FesTpW7VbxwyIRN2YMPNm8i1BMfIySdx8K27UPQrnduJVY8RdcabjYuxf QQl7t+LrxhD6pNjzMnogAa7bYp0+Q6HzA5Ti5uU3IdhiEDyb4ltk0492Cpu1MkTbuYKp BWARDKxcJEAeYDRG+/HJ2tM8VX5kTzwgO/FDqmio1vZUzQbk/iIEapHa0NiMuZE6ZqhD b6q3bZXetuYyIK68W1tYSSSjPhgbdDVmaVRaGBi0kfHwTwshWwLZKwK5kc7F/zvcomOp FYbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=lAOubecdiq2nYdf8PB8rZMpMmZHpMqk1LEe9Hq7qKnI=; b=Vz2zpwcOLkg/q1OWCq/UA2Q3q7ucBpYWIStfKtoTC7oukuXYdQV6pPzy+ZatWNgtRu RORX9LIGbrGHapEIXrcUbn4lWq/hfvBVYchhajta2mPvFmhS6xwik4jispVlo5yLGowl IFUghuTGRzYRKGvePZ9uy/jOfvkBjwZczd8DdodNoPM2QygnfW5KYPQzofz52LlrZpWv 1/vojeiGasRbBF26hlYBD5qwHtWlDW1r+kPp+tb/Jws7nuHagTBmGv/yHYFv0rU1mqS6 ZmLKqg4xCqidji+iB0crbdGM357KuZu+xg7c1S7TF2JxKRzrdjlcGAJVz69PLnlNa0Y/ Ne6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOykzuFtQwjBfzzqYtoCIwR6PDY5DDafiyI3iwunkNiIBqluyV5R lQ1M0RT9dnUyXA== X-Received: by 10.202.244.86 with SMTP id s83mr1125850oih.59.1497468365301; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:30d:1320:9989:9816:bd3d:475d? ([2001:420:30d:1320:9989:9816:bd3d:475d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n6sm436525oif.25.2017.06.14.12.26.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C3AC1DF7-4910-4E52-AED6-AC140FBAF843" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:26:03 -0700 Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: <5B1FACE7-1467-4656-912F-2C531CF56A7D@juniper.net> <5887CF08-6374-44F1-89B3-59ECCE8A039E@juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:26:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C3AC1DF7-4910-4E52-AED6-AC140FBAF843 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 2, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > > ...I'm concerned by the implication that > > servers will implement NACM. > > > > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, > > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG = modules > > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even = those > > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that > > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these > > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. > > > > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: > > > > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., > > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server > > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have > > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit > > access control rule is required for all other users. > > > > It seems that the description statements should say something that > > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > > NACM. > > > > Thoughts? >=20 > I would agree. At the min. the description statement for = default-deny-all should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module = is enabled=E2=80=9D. By that extension, would we change = default-deny-write to also drop reference to a similar statement? >=20 > This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NACM. >=20 > =20 >=20 > [KENT] How so? we're just trying to fix the extension statement = descriptions to >=20 > useful to servers that don't use NACM also... >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The extension statement applies to implementations of NACM. Nothing = else. > Put text in the description-stmt if you want server behavior outside = of NACM. So you are suggesting that we could add something like this to the = description of default-deny-all? "If used outside of NACM module, the extension statement implies that no = one has read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit access = control rule is required for all users." >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > It is also operationally useful to allow an administrator to disable = NACM to >=20 > fix a broken NACM configuration (for example). >=20 > =20 >=20 > [KENT] I'm not following, how is this related? >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > the nacm extensions are only for NACM implementations. > NACM can be enabled and disabled, so this text is needed. > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I strongly oppse this change to NACM. >=20 > =20 >=20 > [KENT] Not sure why, but if it's a good reason, then I suggest we = define another >=20 > set of YANG extension statements that can describe node-sensitivity in = an ACM- >=20 > independent manner. To be honest, I've never been sure that = default-deny-all >=20 > and default-deny-write are sufficient in general. For instance, why = can't I flag >=20 > nodes that require elevated privileges, though not necessarily a = recovery session? >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > There is just 1 standard access control module for NETCONF and = RESTCONF. > it is a SHOULD implement, not MAY implement, for servers. > I see no reason to support proprietary ACMs or start work on a = different standard ACM. >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > I don't see any problem having the NACM extension and "restricted" = enum. >=20 > A server that implements NACM will skip the object and a server that = does not >=20 > will return "restricted". But it would be better to simply not return = the instance >=20 > than have enums that mean "not available". >=20 > =20 >=20 > [KENT] my original idea was to ensure that the data could still be a = valid instance >=20 > of the model, even when the data is restricted, by replacing it with = something that >=20 > conforms to the data model. However, to do this universally would = require models >=20 > to use a 'union' around the original type and an enum for the node = that would be >=20 > otherwise restricted. A different strategy would be needed for = containers, lists, and >=20 > groupings. All this seems ugly to me to try to do in an = IETF-standard. I think that >=20 > it might be better for each ACM solution to describe how it handles = restricted nodes >=20 > (NACM snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the offending node = with some >=20 > special way, etc.). This is main reason why I removed the RESTRICTED = enum... >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > IMO a better data model would be a separate leaf that described the = key-access-type > as normal, restricted, or inaccessible, instead of overloading the = first leaf with > "reasons no instance is here" semantics -- but this info is not very = useful so > I am not suggesting adding a new leaf. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_C3AC1DF7-4910-4E52-AED6-AC140FBAF843 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jun 2, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> = wrote:



On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM, = Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
 

 

> ...I'm concerned by the implication that
> servers will implement NACM.
>
> NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely = implemented,
> and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG = modules
> with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even = those
> that don't implement NACM.  We are (at least I am) expecting = that
> servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off = these
> NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules.
>
> Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says:
>
>   If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e.,
>   /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF = server
>   will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to = have
>   read, write, or execute access to the node.  An = explicit
>   access control rule is required for all other users.
>
> It seems that the description statements should say something = that
> makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use
> NACM.
>
> Thoughts?

I would agree. At the min. the description statement for = default-deny-all should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module = is enabled=E2=80=9D. By that extension, would we change = default-deny-write to also drop reference to a similar statement?

This would be a = non-backward-compatible change to NACM.

 

[KENT] How so?  we're = just trying to fix the extension statement descriptions to

useful to = servers that don't use NACM also...

 

=


The extension statement applies to = implementations of NACM. Nothing else.
Put text in = the description-stmt if you want server behavior outside of = NACM.

So you are suggesting that we could add something like = this to the description of default-deny-all?

"If used outside of NACM module, the extension = statement implies that no one has read, write, or execute access to the = node. An explicit access control rule is required for all = users."



 

 

It is = also operationally useful to allow an administrator to disable NACM to

fix a broken NACM configuration = (for example).

 

[KENT] I'm not following, how = is this related?

 

=


the nacm extensions are only for NACM = implementations.
NACM can be enabled and disabled, = so this text is needed.
 

 

I strongly oppse this change to = NACM.

 

[KENT] Not sure why, but if = it's a good reason, then I suggest we define another

set of YANG extension = statements that can describe node-sensitivity in an ACM-

independent = manner.  To be honest, I've never been sure that default-deny-all

and = default-deny-write are sufficient in general.  For instance, why = can't I flag

nodes that require elevated privileges, though not = necessarily a recovery session?

 

 

=


There is just 1 standard access control = module for NETCONF and RESTCONF.
it is a SHOULD = implement, not MAY implement, for servers.
I see no = reason to support proprietary ACMs or start work on a different standard = ACM.


 

I don't = see any problem having the NACM extension and "restricted" enum.

A server that implements NACM = will skip the object and a server that does not

will return "restricted".  = But it would be better to simply not return the instance

than have enums that mean "not = available".

 

[KENT] my original idea was to = ensure that the data could still be a valid instance

of the model, even when the = data is restricted, by replacing it with something that

conforms to = the data model.  However, to do this universally would require = models

to = use a 'union' around the original type and an enum for the node that = would be

otherwise restricted.  A different strategy = would be needed for containers, lists, and

groupings.  All this = seems ugly to me to try to do in an IETF-standard.  I think that

it might be = better for each ACM solution to describe how it handles restricted = nodes

(NACM = snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the offending node with some

special way, = etc.).  This is main reason why I removed the RESTRICTED = enum...

 



IMO a better data model would be a = separate leaf that described the key-access-type
as = normal, restricted, or inaccessible, instead of overloading the first = leaf with
"reasons no instance is here" semantics = -- but this info is not very useful so
I am not = suggesting adding a new leaf.




 

Kent



Andy
 

 



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_C3AC1DF7-4910-4E52-AED6-AC140FBAF843-- From nobody Wed Jun 14 13:26:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90082129540 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W6G6ijgVMhos for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22c.google.com (mail-wr0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98659124D68 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id r103so14035833wrb.0 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4IzpH+jo4mhsRhDQUz4drZvYHlR7zU0UfwCI0S9Jmng=; b=U9DRyE+jCi8nQdVyN/Dtehr4pHoytxXtu8AXIXJsB52QG9bzzwCbPArFEjD9wQfcmf RHZZxPkrkwY+377bqGDjx9ZLjKlENTSjRc0VeMSpv87Uxn+/s6ct2APOFD9el9Z73mBG Zvbgc6u6VFbxPfQEwdbSIx+oa1mBYzKiL9Un5BGoQmB/2KFYrHMkm6tcieho+s8Dbnit XacewGcM4DohnJXswmu823sfK7BgE6hXqKbzr2/hLTKtOox3m8xVpyfi4OySSLmVRhv0 7R4P+XHb6DepGL802vM6jAvoOs5eUmqD2/5jS/s+E1KfzYLO506XOaOC5TG3ob9i16dK b6gQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4IzpH+jo4mhsRhDQUz4drZvYHlR7zU0UfwCI0S9Jmng=; b=cpJTmicwelH3dOVV4hwMMAntS/d8/GFNbsneTviQ3uW1QIRk4AYmisV1OEaLn2wV0e FL365aWxkh4VbSl77r/KWFEldfITb76dADS64qDAB0kmJqDkuh8suf/h+7XmMDuHRL6U kBVA0WrtanBv50gJfkWMxTuBhtrcwl3S/k+wB0FMUSPFVgAjyvYZOaXRllUdV0YDvJZP m95rzv8+iS8MheNoX9fqr9egoK3tg4WJk1WQag6/0B57NITCaRf8dkJKz3jNCCKYKtpI 0b3Sh2Pb1owrf3AiSAn0+JFLXevDYy/DFMqmbxPSN834w1TUcsu6lkCeEtYdWRG78SWv vwSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwfJB/MoNiunoBEwAe+8pyzLUYo0qtOCbBwzp+v3E3XblHpUKCD Ii6FwBb9gU9e0HUIdoLQGgtDmaXB4/pG X-Received: by 10.223.173.38 with SMTP id p35mr1314122wrc.88.1497472011919; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.173 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5B1FACE7-1467-4656-912F-2C531CF56A7D@juniper.net> <5887CF08-6374-44F1-89B3-59ECCE8A039E@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d654f9b20551f15f22" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:26:57 -0000 --f403045cf3d654f9b20551f15f22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani < mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Jun 2, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > ...I'm concerned by the implication that >> > servers will implement NACM. >> > >> > NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented, >> > and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG modules >> > with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those >> > that don't implement NACM. We are (at least I am) expecting that >> > servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these >> > NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules. >> > >> > Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says: >> > >> > If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e., >> > /nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCONF server >> > will only allow the designated 'recovery session' to have >> > read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit >> > access control rule is required for all other users. >> > >> > It seems that the description statements should say something that >> > makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use >> > NACM. >> > >> > Thoughts? >> >> I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-al= l >> should remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80= =9D. By that >> extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop reference to = a >> similar statement? >> >> This would be a non-backward-compatible change to NACM. >> >> >> >> [KENT] How so? we're just trying to fix the extension statement >> descriptions to >> >> useful to servers that don't use NACM also... >> >> >> > > > The extension statement applies to implementations of NACM. Nothing else. > Put text in the description-stmt if you want server behavior outside of > NACM. > > > So you are suggesting that we could add something like this to the > description of default-deny-all? > > "If used outside of NACM module, the extension statement implies that no > one has read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit access > control rule is required for all users." > > I was suggesting you can add that text to the keystore data model. It seems rather odd for a YANG module (NACM or any other) to define what its data model constructs mean in another unspecified system. Andy > > >> >> >> It is also operationally useful to allow an administrator to disable NAC= M >> to >> >> fix a broken NACM configuration (for example). >> >> >> >> [KENT] I'm not following, how is this related? >> >> >> > > > the nacm extensions are only for NACM implementations. > NACM can be enabled and disabled, so this text is needed. > > >> >> >> I strongly oppse this change to NACM. >> >> >> >> [KENT] Not sure why, but if it's a good reason, then I suggest we define >> another >> >> set of YANG extension statements that can describe node-sensitivity in a= n >> ACM- >> >> independent manner. To be honest, I've never been sure that >> default-deny-all >> >> and default-deny-write are sufficient in general. For instance, why >> can't I flag >> >> nodes that require elevated privileges, though not necessarily a recover= y >> session? >> >> >> >> >> > > > There is just 1 standard access control module for NETCONF and RESTCONF. > it is a SHOULD implement, not MAY implement, for servers. > I see no reason to support proprietary ACMs or start work on a different > standard ACM. > > > > >> I don't see any problem having the NACM extension and "restricted" enum. >> >> A server that implements NACM will skip the object and a server that doe= s >> not >> >> will return "restricted". But it would be better to simply not return >> the instance >> >> than have enums that mean "not available". >> >> >> >> [KENT] my original idea was to ensure that the data could still be a >> valid instance >> >> of the model, even when the data is restricted, by replacing it with >> something that >> >> conforms to the data model. However, to do this universally would >> require models >> >> to use a 'union' around the original type and an enum for the node that >> would be >> >> otherwise restricted. A different strategy would be needed for >> containers, lists, and >> >> groupings. All this seems ugly to me to try to do in an IETF-standard. >> I think that >> >> it might be better for each ACM solution to describe how it handles >> restricted nodes >> >> (NACM snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the offending node with >> some >> >> special way, etc.). This is main reason why I removed the RESTRICTED >> enum... >> >> >> > > > IMO a better data model would be a separate leaf that described the > key-access-type > as normal, restricted, or inaccessible, instead of overloading the first > leaf with > "reasons no instance is here" semantics -- but this info is not very > useful so > I am not suggesting adding a new leaf. > > > > > >> >> Kent >> > > > Andy > > >> >> > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > --f403045cf3d654f9b20551f15f22 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanan= dani@gmail.com> wrote:

On = Jun 2, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:


=

On Fri, Jun 2, 20= 17 at 12:42 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> ...I'm concerned by the implication that
> servers will implement NACM.
>
> NACM is optional to implement, and I think not widely implemented,
> and yet we're putting NACM extensions statements into all YANG mod= ules
> with some hope that it might be meaningful to all servers, even those<= br> > that don't implement NACM.=C2=A0 We are (at least I am) expecting = that
> servers implementing some other mechanism will still key off these
> NACM extensions, as that is all that there is in these modules.
>
> Currently, the description statement for default-deny-all says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0If present, *and the NACM module is enabled* (i.e.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0/nacm/enable-nacm object equals 'true'), the NETCO= NF server
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0will only allow the designated 'recovery session' = to have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0read, write, or execute access to the node.=C2=A0 An expli= cit
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0access control rule is required for all other users.
>
> It seems that the description statements should say something that
> makes them meaningful to all servers, even those that don't use > NACM.
>
> Thoughts?

I would agree. At the min. the description statement for default-deny-all s= hould remove reference to =E2=80=9Cand the NACM module is enabled=E2=80=9D.= By that extension, would we change default-deny-write to also drop referen= ce to a similar statement?

This would be a non-backward-compatible change = to NACM.

=C2=A0

= [KENT] How so?=C2=A0 we're just trying to fix the extension statement d= escriptions to

useful to servers that don't u= se NACM also...

=C2=A0



The extension statement applies to implementations of NACM. Nothing = else.
Put text in the description-stmt if you want server behavio= r outside of NACM.

So you are suggesting that we could add something like this to the descrip= tion of default-deny-all?

"If used outside of= NACM module, the extension statement implies that no one has read, write, = or execute access to the node. An explicit access control rule is required = for all users."


=

I was suggesting you can add that text to the keystore = data model.
It seems rather odd for a YANG module (NACM or any ot= her) to define
what its data model constructs mean in another uns= pecified system.

=C2=A0

A= ndy



=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It is also operationally useful to= allow an administrator to disable NACM to

fix a broken NACM configuration (for example).<= u>

=C2=A0

= [KENT] I'm not following, how is this related?

=C2=A0



the nacm extensions are only for = NACM implementations.
NACM can be enabled and disabled, so this t= ext is needed.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I strongly oppse this change to NACM.=

=C2=A0

= [KENT] Not sure why, but if it's a good reason, then I suggest we defin= e another

set of YANG extension sta= tements that can describe node-sensitivity in an ACM-

independent manner.=C2=A0 To be honest, I've never b= een sure that default-deny-all

and = default-deny-write are sufficient in general.=C2=A0 For instance, why can&#= 39;t I flag

nodes that require elev= ated privileges, though not necessarily a recovery session?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=


There is just 1 stand= ard access control module for NETCONF and RESTCONF.
it is a SHOUL= D implement, not MAY implement, for servers.
I see no reason to s= upport proprietary ACMs or start work on a different standard ACM.


=C2=A0
=

I don't see any problem having the NACM extension and &q= uot;restricted" enum.

A server that implements NACM will skip the obj= ect and a server that does not

will return "restricted".=C2=A0 But i= t would be better to simply not return the instance

than have enums that mean "not available&q= uot;.

=C2=A0

= [KENT] my original idea was to ensure that the data could still be a valid = instance

of the model, even when th= e data is restricted, by replacing it with something that

=

conforms to the data model.=C2=A0 However, to do thi= s universally would require models

= to use a 'union' around the original type and an enum for the node = that would be

otherwise restricted.= =C2=A0 A different strategy would be needed for containers, lists, and

groupings.=C2=A0 All this seems ugly to= me to try to do in an IETF-standard.=C2=A0 I think that

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">it might be better for each ACM solution to describe = how it handles restricted nodes

(NA= CM snips out the offending node, XYZ replace the offending node with some

special way, etc.).=C2=A0 This is ma= in reason why I removed the RESTRICTED enum...=

=C2=A0



IMO a better data model would be a separate leaf that = described the key-access-type
as normal, restricted, or inaccessi= ble, instead of overloading the first leaf with
"reasons no = instance is here" semantics -- but this info is not very useful so
I am not suggesting adding a new leaf.


=


=C2=A0

Kent



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0



Mahesh Jethanandani




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multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf3d6dce6310551f1d974" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore issue X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 21:01:13 -0000 --f403045cf3d6dce6310551f1d974 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > On 6/14/17, 4:26 PM, "Andy Bierman" wrote: > > > > So you are suggesting that we could add something like this to the > description of default-deny-all? > > > > "If used outside of NACM module, the extension statement implies that no > one has read, write, or execute access to the node. An explicit access > control rule is required for all users." > > > > > > I was suggesting you can add that text to the keystore data model. > > It seems rather odd for a YANG module (NACM or any other) to define > > what its data model constructs mean in another unspecified system. > > > > Despite the subject line of this thread, what I'm talking about has > to do with ALL > > YANG modules (not just keystore). More specifically, per [1], the > Security Considerations > > in all my drafts, talk about sensitive nodes contained within the modules, > and then make a > > statement regarding how that node is tagged with a specific NACM extension > accordingly. > > It just seems a little misleading, perhaps especially to SecDir, that > these NACM annotations > > have no meaning for systems that don't implement NACM which, as mentioned > before, is > > every system that I interact with. Hence my desire to either update the > NACM extension > > statement descriptions so that they're applicable to systems that don't > implement NACM, or > > to start a new draft to define (likely better) extension statements that > can apply to all systems, > > regardless which ACM they implement. > > > > [1] https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines > > > I don't think the current NACM text is preventing other ACMs from applying the NACM extensions to their own system. But I can replace "NACM is enabled" with "the ACM is enabled". I don't think any developers are getting stuck over the current text. They are easily making this adjustment themselves. There are vendors implementing and shipping NACM. It is deployed and available for use. Whether it is really used by operators or not? Not sure. > K. > > > > > Andy --f403045cf3d6dce6310551f1d974 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

On 6/14/17, 4:26 PM, "Andy Bierman" <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

So you are suggesting that we could add = something like this to the description of default-deny-all?

=C2=A0

"If used outside of NACM module, th= e extension statement implies that no one has read, write, or execute acces= s to the node. An explicit access control rule is required for all users."

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I was suggesting you can add that text t= o the keystore data model.

It seems rather odd for a YANG module (N= ACM or any other) to define

what its data model constructs mean in a= nother unspecified system.



<KENT> Despite the subject line of this thread= , what I'm talking about has to do with ALL

YANG modules (not just keystore).=C2=A0=C2=A0 More s= pecifically, per [1], the Security Considerations

in all my drafts, talk about sensitive nodes contain= ed within the modules, and then make a

statement regarding how that node is tagged with a s= pecific NACM extension accordingly.

It just seems a little misleading, perhaps especiall= y to SecDir, that these NACM annotations

have no meaning for systems that don't implement= NACM which, as mentioned before, is

every system that I interact with.=C2=A0 Hence my de= sire to either update the NACM extension

statement descriptions so that they're applicabl= e to systems that don't implement NACM, or

to start a new draft to define (likely better) exten= sion statements that can apply to all systems,

regardless which ACM they implement.

=C2=A0

[1] https://trac.ietf.org/trac/= ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines

=C2=A0



I don't think the current NACM t= ext is preventing other ACMs from applying the NACM extensions
to= their own system. But I can replace "NACM is enabled" with "= ;the ACM is enabled".
I don't think any developers are g= etting stuck over the current text.
They are easily making this a= djustment themselves.

There are vendors implementi= ng and shipping NACM.=C2=A0 It is deployed and available for use.
Whether it is really used by operators or not?=C2=A0 Not sure.
<= br>


=C2=A0

K.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


Andy

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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1299; H:BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <313E6AFD0E9229498FC3E50DE30D17C9@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Jun 2017 11:02:06.7307 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1299 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:02:10 -0000 DQpIaSBKdWVyZ2VuLA0KDQpJIGRvbid0IGtub3cgbXVjaCBhYm91dCBMTUFQLiAgSXMgaXQgZXhw ZWN0ZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgZW50aXJlIHBoeXNpY2FsDQpvciB2aXJ0dWFsIGFwcGxpYW5jZSBpcyBh IHNpbmdsZSBSRVNUQ09ORiBjbGllbnQsIG9yIGlzIHRoZSBSQyBjbGllbnQNCm1vcmUgbGlrZSBh IHBhcnQgb2YgYSBsYXJnZXIgc3lzdGVtPyAgSG93IG1hbnkgc3VjaCBjbGllbnRzIG1pZ2h0IHRo ZXJlDQpiZT8gIEhvdyBhcmUgdGhleSBjb25maWd1cmVkPyAgRG8gdGhleSBoYXZlIGFueSBjb25m aWd1cmF0aW9uIGFib3ZlDQphbmQgYmV5b25kIGp1c3QgdGhlIFJDIGNsaWVudCBjb25maWd1cmF0 aW9uPw0KDQpLZW50DQoNCg0KT24gV2VkLCBKdW4gMTQsIDIwMTcgYXQgMDQ6MzE6NDNQTSArMDAw MCwgS2VudCBXYXRzZW4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiAyKSBKdWVyZ2VuIHN1Z2dlc3RzIHRoZSBpZXRm LW5ldGNvbmYtY2xpZW50IGFuZCBpZXRmLXJlc3Rjb25mLWNsaWVudA0KPiAgICBtb2R1bGVzIGhh dmUgYm90aCBncm91cGluZ3MgYW5kIGNvbnRhaW5lcnMgKHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgdXBkYXRlDQo+ICAg IG9ubHkgaGFzIGdyb3VwaW5ncykuICBXaGlsZSBpdCBtYXkgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgZm9yIGEgTkMv UkMgY2xpZW50DQo+ICAgIHRvIG5vdCBuZWVkIGFueSBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGFib3ZlIGFuZCBi ZXlvbmQgd2hhdCdzIHByb3ZpZGVkIGluDQo+ICAgIHRoZXNlIGdyb3VwaW5ncywgdGhpcyBzZWVt cyBsaWtlIGEgY29ybmVyIGNhc2Ugbm90IHdvcnRoIHN1cHBvcnRpbmcsDQo+ICAgIGFuZCBoZW5j ZSB3aHkgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgbW9kdWxlcyBkb24ndCBoYXZlIGFueSBjb250YWluZXJzLg0KPg0K DQphKSBMTUFQIGhhcyBhIG5lZWQgZm9yIHRoaXMgc2luY2UgTE1BUCBoYXMgUkMgY2xpZW50cyB0 aGF0IGludm9rZSBhbg0KICAgUlBDcyBvbiBhIHNlcnZlciBhbmQgaXQgaXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRv IHByb3ZpZGUgdGhlbSB3aXRoIHRoZQ0KICAgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IGNyZWRlbnRpYWxzIGV0Yy4gUGVy aGFwcyB0aGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgeW91IGNhbGwgYSBjb3JuZXINCiAgIGNhc2UsIGJ1dCBpdCBpcyB0 aGVuIGF0IGxlYXN0IGFuIElFVEYgV0cgY29ybmVyIGNhc2UuDQoNCmIpIE90aGVyIGNvbmZpZ3Vy YXRpb24gcGFyYW1ldGVycyBjYW4gYmUgKGFuZCB0eXBpY2FsbHkgYXJlKSBpbiBvdGhlcg0KICAg bW9kdWxlcy4NCg0KYykgVGhlIGFyZ3VtZW50IHdlIGRvbid0IGFkZCBhIGNvbnRhaW5lciBzaW5j ZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBjb250YWluZXINCiAgIGlzIGNpcmN1bGFyIG9yIGF0IGxlYXN0IG5vdCBo ZWxwZnVsLg0KDQovanMNCg0KLS0gDQpKdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgICAgICAgICAgIEph Y29icyBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IEJyZW1lbiBnR21iSA0KUGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAg ICAgICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFueQ0KRmF4OiAgICs0OSA0 MjEgMjAwIDMxMDMgICAgICAgICA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQoN Cg0K From nobody Thu Jun 15 04:32:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68BBD129B7F for ; 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Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:31:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:31:52 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:31:58 -0000 On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 11:02:06AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Juergen, > > I don't know much about LMAP. Is it expected that the entire physical > or virtual appliance is a single RESTCONF client, or is the RC client > more like a part of a larger system? How many such clients might there > be? How are they configured? Do they have any configuration above > and beyond just the RC client configuration? > An LMAP measurement agent has two interfaces. The first interface is towards a controller, the entity in charge of configuring measurement schedules etc. The second interface is towards a collector, an entity in charge of collection measurement results. The LMAP measurement agent acts as a RESTCONF server towards the controller (using call home where necessary) and it acts as a RESTCONF client towards the collector. What LMAP was hoping to get out of NETCONF (in addition to call home) is a way for the controller to configure on the LMAP measurement agent the parameters needed for the RESTCONF client to deliver measurement results to a collector. In other words, an LMAP agent acts as a RESTCONF server to its controller and as a RESTCONF client to its collectors. I do not get why it is relevant how much additional configuration there is or how many LMAP measurement agents there are etc. LMAP simply has a need to configure the parameters for a RESTCONF client and we were hoping that NETCONF provides this as an implementable module. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jun 19 08:38:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA9D1292D3 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:17:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (Postfix, from userid 501) id 626773FC937B; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:17:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 18:17:09 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:17:24 -0000 On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:38:31PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Sure, but would it make any sense to configure an LMAP server using > a global ietf-restconf-client model, or would you want something > more like ietf-lmap-server, that 'uses' ietf-restconf-client? > Interoperability means the same objects in the same namespace at the same location. I do not get why you think this is a problem. > That said, it occurs to me that the ietf-xxxconf-server models, which > currently only define containers, should also define groupings, as > there may be a ietf-foobar-whatever that can configure more than one > ietf-xxxconf-servers - e.g., in different parts of its config tree, > as one might be used for reason-X and the other used for reason-Y. > What do you think? So should we define interfaces groupings so that everybody can instantiate them where he sees fit? I fail to see the logic. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jun 19 09:48:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DBCC13159A for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:48:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TjWfUyXz8haN for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66E721315A0 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id d64so19219250wmf.1 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Gq/CoMghsqDR5ZwkaRHonfn9wrO9HPrVFKDqnk+eMbY=; b=rMXK6ezMPkoV2jlQnfB191B+d8nN8wwAyTCm0gM11t5fYBzQ5/zU4nwcSda16SlYjK 33cKoQM8eyM9QNPAlUq5UF1gn++CDq///GI/hEsuXiMnihBEtluRUqgWX+EfYfGQmtnI xuKHUSMSFk+wU0PmNWZ3qfF+eFc/8ETumRtXcoWQC6kYFICTYcLbsiKIEBNEuKhtREXI K5pYShbqZc0qANorRyrZRIK9vU2CWQdSEFi/rERnnKUKxzUgXnuzxfNw3Zx60PzxyMhC bzDVDWKxvzu8KKcCxdEjjPZ+CEyQhfjJ3HhcLK+9JSJKfCJkM+Hdzt1+uSfZHrC41yub lRsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Gq/CoMghsqDR5ZwkaRHonfn9wrO9HPrVFKDqnk+eMbY=; b=UO51C1NPBO9ItDXMTwHtaJ3/3w2UNENrnTLWaKilDuXgaPK5ItNNB2k6u2znl3HiNy FndqgAeCXr8bp3BjGERDtbSAzo64OzLVi6aqLqiNQLg7OHtF21LS2+XnHf9SUTs2z1b1 Vd7WMLRn0SR0NLPQV95S1/KNJs64iV6P3lW2iV6OmFx9cHstchsKVI+Il/Uqx2HGoi6j Or/WQKsr5vgu5BxZWlCXSgOhSrjBRT92TFKO9m2Bfn4RgL1d8gLLo3o8RGxNgTnzg5Vo /i0k+GiW0LQa93grsw/zgTCELc5AxLRkGGfzCpv+GI9vFmOUZ1gFAvanPiuVaqa49aPd Ocog== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxjbQi6K6yw/Q5lJ59R9/tVz+Hhyq2Ki1gB55xRyjARPt0pjG6o 2hlykk/6s0SlYz4RFdwhCQdLQuotwwmo X-Received: by 10.28.151.207 with SMTP id z198mr16766545wmd.48.1497890679811; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:44:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:44:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:44:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2ae205b3055252d9b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:48:34 -0000 --001a1144ea2ae205b3055252d9b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:38:31PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > Sure, but would it make any sense to configure an LMAP server using > > a global ietf-restconf-client model, or would you want something > > more like ietf-lmap-server, that 'uses' ietf-restconf-client? > > > > Interoperability means the same objects in the same namespace at the > same location. I do not get why you think this is a problem. > > Right -- we had the same issue with SNMP and TEXTUAL-CONVENTIONS. There is no way to measure the interoperability of a grouping or typedef. We have published groupings only before for RESTCONF, for use with the yang-data extension. We should not publish TBD-management-objects in the form of groupings. There should be at least 1 "uses" for each published grouping (intended as management data). > > That said, it occurs to me that the ietf-xxxconf-server models, which > > currently only define containers, should also define groupings, as > > there may be a ietf-foobar-whatever that can configure more than one > > ietf-xxxconf-servers - e.g., in different parts of its config tree, > > as one might be used for reason-X and the other used for reason-Y. > > What do you think? > > So should we define interfaces groupings so that everybody can > instantiate them where he sees fit? I fail to see the logic. > The routing modules use a lot of groupings, anticipating a lot of reuse. But you are right -- we could go overboard future-proofing data structures. I don't really like choice-stmts with 0 or 1 case-stmt (for example). There are lots of ways we can make the modules too complicated. > /js > Andy > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1144ea2ae205b3055252d9b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:38:31PM +0000, Kent Watse= n wrote:
>
> Sure, but would it make any sense to configure an LMAP server using > a global ietf-restconf-client model, or would you want something
> more like ietf-lmap-server, that 'uses' ietf-restconf-client?<= br> >

Interoperability means the same objects in the same namespace at the
same location. I do not get why you think this is a problem.


Right -- we had the same issue with SN= MP and TEXTUAL-CONVENTIONS.
There is no way to measure the intero= perability of a grouping or typedef.
We have published groupings = only before for RESTCONF, for use with
the yang-data extension.

We should not publish TBD-management-objects in the= form of groupings.
There should be at least 1 "uses" f= or each published grouping (intended as management data).

=C2=A0
> That said, it occurs to me that the ietf-xxxconf-server models, which<= br> > currently only define containers, should also define groupings, as
> there may be a ietf-foobar-whatever that can configure more than one > ietf-xxxconf-servers - e.g., in different parts of its config tree, > as one might be used for reason-X and the other used for reason-Y.
> What do you think?

So should we define interfaces groupings so that everybody can
instantiate them where he sees fit? I fail to see the logic.


The routing modules use a lot of group= ings, anticipating a lot of reuse.
But you are right -- we could = go overboard future-proofing data structures.
I don't really = like choice-stmts with 0 or 1 case-stmt (for example).
There are = lots of ways we can make the modules too complicated.

<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
/js

Andy
=C2=A0=

--
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bulk Message-ID: <149792844949.23807.16100750764443985297@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 20:14:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 03:14:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for NETCONF or RESTCONF based Management Authors : Kent Watsen Mikael Abrahamsson Ian Farrer Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14.txt Pages : 66 Date : 2017-06-19 Abstract: This draft presents a secure technique for establishing a NETCONF or RESTCONF connection between a newly deployed device, configured with just its factory default settings, and its deployment specific network management system (NMS). Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. Please note that no other RFC Editor instructions are specified anywhere else in this document. Artwork in the IANA Considerations section contains placeholder values for DHCP options pending IANA assignment. Please apply the following replacements: o "OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv4 Zero Touch Option" option o "OPTION_V6_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv6 Zero Touch Option" option Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2017-06-19" --> the publication date of this draft Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ieft-netconf-netconf-client-server o I-D.ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra The following one Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jun 2017 07:42:11.2434 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB380 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0iTYRTHe97b3g0HT/Oyk12IQR/SnKl9UApTIpEyqm9aYY580dWc+r5T 0j6opZGKZZHphjS1qdkULyiaVOgqpha17OI0L5lamEyCQFEpcnsX9O13zv+c/+H/8LCkopgO ZLV6A8frNToVI6OMib0RIV/exSftn21WRw7USiKruj7TMUS8xbJGxI9d/Sg5RZyRHUrldNpc jg+NTpGllxcPM1ml+PJj85SkEM36lCEpC/gA1NsdqAzJWAV+gWDtdTUjFkMIuudLaHdB4QoS 2i3tElG5R0BLYx/j3lfgOQSOcb2bGXwUFoxrEjf74QQY/WXa3GZZXxwOdmec2I4A841hJHI4 uIq6PDYU3gOT13poN8vxOagt6qVE+2iwT9d4WIoPg3X9uWce4QBYHWkl3ExiJUzMmwkxDgbL k7ekyP6wOPfHEwDh2whahwq9Q7thY7rTO7QTRs3lnvyAZxiYGO2gReEELNpWGJFHCTAteBf2 QoXDQriDAdbCuIMS2weh5cdPWvQZoOHTcrFX2AE9rk7vgQ4a1ttsHiNfHAhTH0pRJQoy/ZdC 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I believe this sentence should be added to tls/ss= h servers, to 'trusted-ca-certs': "A client certificate is authenticated if it has a valid chain of trust to = a configured trusted CA certificate." 2) We talked about adding must statements for 'trusted-*' nodes, and for th= e tls/ssh server cases we agreed that some TLS/SSH servers might be ok to n= ot do client certificate authentication, but Netconf and Restconf servers d= o require client certificate. I don't see this expressed with a must statem= ent in the new versions of the drafts: uses ts:tls-server-grouping { augment "client-auth" { description "Augments in the cert-to-name structure."; uses cert-maps-grouping; } } I'd expect a 'must trusted-ca-certs or trusted-client-certs' line. Br, Bal=E1zs -----Original Message----- From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:04 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts Dear WG, These latest updates reflect all comments received and close all of the ope= n issues. At this point, there are no more issues to resolve. I believe that these drafts are now ready for Last Call. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-03 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-03 Thanks, Kent _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Jun 20 12:28:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ECDD13160D for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:28:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9364542EEFEB4E66A09B143FF1EA354Fjunipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jun 2017 20:53:09.6745 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1268 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:53:14 -0000 --_000_9364542EEFEB4E66A09B143FF1EA354Fjunipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpIaSBKdWVyZ2VuLCBBbmR5LA0KDQo+IFN1cmUsIGJ1dCB3b3VsZCBpdCBtYWtlIGFueSBzZW5z ZSB0byBjb25maWd1cmUgYW4gTE1BUCBzZXJ2ZXIgdXNpbmcNCj4gYSBnbG9iYWwgaWV0Zi1yZXN0 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07:57:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:57:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:57:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2a813e8a0552799600" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:01:48 -0000 --001a1144ea2a813e8a0552799600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I am confused. Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise ietf-datastores:1.0? IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can choose the datastores that support a YANG module. This metadata MUST come from the YANG module itself. This is not a vendor implementation decision. Andy On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > module). > > But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > revision=&module-set-id= > > and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > (so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > Thoughts? > > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > support the revised-datastores draft. > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > draft as a WG item? > > Thanks, > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > Revision: 00 > Title: YANG Module Library > Document date: 2017-05-30 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 15 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > Abstract: > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > this information. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1144ea2a813e8a0552799600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am confused.
Why can= 9;t a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise ietf-datastores:= 1.0?

IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is = each vendor can choose the datastores
that support a YANG module.= =C2=A0 This metadata MUST come from the YANG module
itself.=C2=A0= This is not a vendor implementation decision. =C2=A0

<= div>
Andy


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Wats= en <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
module).

But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.= 0?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&module-set-id=3D<id>

and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.

Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
top-level container called "yang library", which would contain an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).

Thoughts?

Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
support the revised-datastores draft.

Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
draft as a WG item?

Thanks,
Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc= 7895bis
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt= -netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc78= 95bis/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00<= br> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG library that provides informati= on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management server= (e.g.,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simp= le caching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval= of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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Ip=[66.129.239.15]; Helo=[P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR05MB1972 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:25:09 -0000 Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". Thanks, Phil Kent Watsen writes: > > >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another >module). = > >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > revision=3D&module-set-id=3D > >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new = >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > >Thoughts? > >Kent > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >support the revised-datastores draft. > >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >draft as a WG item? > >Thanks, >Kent > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >Revision: 00 >Title: YANG Module Library >Document date: 2017-05-30 >Group: Individual Submission >Pages: 15 >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf= -rfc7895bis-00. >txt >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc= 7895bis/ >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895b= is-00 >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netcon= f-rfc7895bis-00 > > >Abstract: > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > this information. > > = = > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > > > >_______________________________________________ >Netconf mailing list >Netconf@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > >_______________________________________________ >Netconf mailing list >Netconf@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Jun 21 08:41:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE45D12EB67 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:41:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o2wqBJ4zijq2 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22E5A12EB05 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id r103so139977262wrb.0 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:38:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Fae0LJjHBtxnxWi/e6zt2W5BqVW6P+kr+BzLC/49Nk4=; b=jtRea2eTax95iJHk+wBeB4EF7kCvQv4CmOve9fKWWqqL9VGYu+2AUcYDM2i2Ha7RIe PnRaI9L3hcPnJZj/EK6S5Sr1HvIfJbv9yHbNrdXwqvsoPXLvZp74umKvRUFDFUD5ZUot 2AVWMybRM9gg2vh/ASwZixc6k6CWu2kmohghyRObTV78pOWDhJ8hk2GBsmc49O6KJ01W YzrBuwAy0bWaAw/+kl60s/UwR+iqKyXr6PlDn1U4+tqI6zSv9MOSAxMXHaEr9HtQ8kiO Xai4A7VgMTCqb98dfdaI17VG87ts1zDj7CRtEvHec2VahqZw0vXU5iOkVcb4XldtqI8m Xllg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Fae0LJjHBtxnxWi/e6zt2W5BqVW6P+kr+BzLC/49Nk4=; b=VrzthOh/hlmcgz9ULcUEZMPGDL9niF4mXXnu4GFIqJw65pfuPgPgELP2cNPzCWU4m4 jb9q9gN3sLCykYccs3BTtaL5zjZKAXcZPmM7Ec+JkTubXdyfgsI9+wOze6n5LNjnD9J3 58c+liqahacoxagh82PLBreWafnJYzDvnDUAHgU+uehf07EeU3FORtQn+T/XfRHzhIQB PP0gwGuoIujBcm+8UO672sl6AN1y1QQU2tgzrYX2Mn0h+6VDHlBmoHPzFE5miLJYYYdJ AZ64szc35HfZI2eg7UrrtVpQHQpKGj2MXsb9dP4Q6iE9ZOpU6xIexKcAPEI2HPafiJ/7 7xTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOym/ce60mJJGw6OEnJGEUxcivBORsSwIstQdFW0ufcXbfUCfrCr cKY9e621WUz+ObnkIpOxfkdblm/Ct94x X-Received: by 10.223.163.135 with SMTP id l7mr16921420wrb.88.1498059480473; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:38:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:37:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 08:37:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Phil Shafer Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f14662fae3705527a27c0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 15:41:46 -0000 --f403045f14662fae3705527a27c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself. The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version. Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case). The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality is being added to the standards. Andy On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: > Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was > a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits > any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". > > Thanks, > Phil > > > > Kent Watsen writes: > > > > > >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > >module). > > > >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > > revision=&module-set-id= > > > >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > > >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > > >Thoughts? > > > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > >support the revised-datastores draft. > > > >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > >draft as a WG item? > > > >Thanks, > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > >Revision: 00 > >Title: YANG Module Library > >Document date: 2017-05-30 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 15 > >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. > >txt > >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis/ > >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00 > >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > >Abstract: > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > > this information. > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --f403045f14662fae3705527a27c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

IMO -- no. You do not understand th= is capability URI.
The purpose of this capability is to advertise= the revision-date used
so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wr= t/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

The tex= t does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.
A client MU= ST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.
Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a ne= w module that augments
the YANG library, if that is required (whi= ch it isn't in this case).

The RD work provide= s no advantages whatsoever for many devices that
will not have I2= RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores
have th= eir own capability URIs with no need to change them.=C2=A0 We should not
disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functional= ity is being added
to the standards.

Andy



On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Sh= afer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:
Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?=C2=A0 It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-librar= y:1.0?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&module-set-id=3D= <id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contai= n
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc78= 95bis
>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 00
>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A015
>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt= -netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00<= /a>
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf= -rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG library that provides infor= mation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management se= rver (e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 = Simple caching
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retri= eval of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= /a>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= /a>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Oo2rkdf2Ad4xKR/lBV+ABCT50NXvatgLSuwwAyzBfRs=; b=d344oM60u4Vu3LrRK3lCAA6bpFsRrKVhYUUGTxLEpTAG01E4AUxqmWEOARKRt2HMIw 1V4CMEzqlUDWbCLTPWDlrjr0e3Zhjg44z7F8YLIrC71ySXrS35bnbIP13HvghoC+SqfB SciKN5hyLSpCySL6ME3sF0xsDr+T8Kf8ihJQj0SyUYpayRR04bMOQk/3lXpV0WoxCwSN F3Q7UE97ifDoQB6OaDeGi1szqDcqqlXNxv5S+H0usRE8kBeI/km8TqZGntKQMfQLhZxc sEuaKPQPHFOXP55N8dub/zf4NnjOzg+QuP59j3VhMqf3D7Y/fFPLPJy6ezJ/XCZwDPC1 HqZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Oo2rkdf2Ad4xKR/lBV+ABCT50NXvatgLSuwwAyzBfRs=; b=RiSnqYsiuSgPhwBM15vbt+xSJyj7rCaaUf2fAa86smeCauNUUxM+UELoxHatbkfDHM plrR8NmENRt1Qk1KJSs6g7yvsrXHwZDINfpoj/CtaAyXFALN1t8EzfsjSVIPW0zmedDd ubZvy3KzUaFavdV5GjNZLkRhrQ1HR+vP03HQ7Fd5U+Vdtt2E79zNrXl6X3gpEQ9usp4j 6LHiF1Wj0gqvwJkvLE9CzNNMMYKxBolwcMcdauQdUBRQWJ2/tG+Tlnn94EH3SO3nKAaP OxsIwCxZERpY+7xcNRrcOZYUkfTxvXY0kmkd5gYpNmBgo9DL7OBCRiM9KnfuzFYV1cJr ixqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyNG/RSBV0PHCWuF4ORnP6vSGYWv3Ve2yc4QxMyGuHfMKfJB0Yw /tmeJTX5AJ96YZmQZ0B36xKu8MwevSQh X-Received: by 10.28.151.207 with SMTP id z198mr8004191wmd.48.1498078234567; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:50:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:50:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2CEADD3B-F882-4404-8F26-D21BFA2AB211@juniper.net> References: <2CEADD3B-F882-4404-8F26-D21BFA2AB211@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 13:50:33 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2a04797f05527e856a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 20:50:39 -0000 --001a1144ea2a04797f05527e856a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > I am confused. > > > Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise > ietf-datastores:1.0? > > > > We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata a server can provide > > in one response. We originally thought about "ietf-datastores", but that > didn't > > fit the bill, so then we considered "server-metainfo" and then > "yang-library2". > > However, since yang-library as it stands is not suitable for NMDA servers, > > and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#section-5.6.4, it seems > that > > embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the best option. > > > > Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data in 1 response? This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another module. The augmented data is in the same tree. The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. > > > > IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can choose the > datastores > > > that support a YANG module. This metadata MUST come from the YANG module > > > itself. This is not a vendor implementation decision. > > > > Assuming 's/is each/if each/', that's not what we're saying. Of course, > modules > > are primarily deployed to datastores as they have always been. The only > real > > new thing here is that some modules may be datastore-specific, especially > with > > regards to dynamic datastores. But the expectation is that any such > module- > > deployment limitations would be called out in the associated RFC, perhaps > in > > the form of a new YANG extension statement. > > > Seems to me there is a simple static mapping from YANG to datastore for everything except I2RS. The solution should add localized-cost only to systems using I2RS. The I2RS solution proposals seem better because they tag the YANG module not the server implementation. A mapping that is read at runtime and can possibly change and can be different on every server is very high maintenance. > > > Andy > > > > Kent > Andy > > > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > module). > > But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > revision=&module-set-id= > > and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > (so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > Thoughts? > > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > support the revised-datastores draft. > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > draft as a WG item? > > Thanks, > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > Revision: 00 > Title: YANG Module Library > Document date: 2017-05-30 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 15 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > Abstract: > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > this information. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --001a1144ea2a04797f05527e856a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

> I am confused.

> Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1= .0 and also advertise ietf-datastores:1.0?

=C2=A0

We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata= a server can provide

in one response.=C2=A0 We originally thought about &= quot;ietf-datastores", but that didn't

fit the bill, so then we considered "server-met= ainfo" and then "yang-library2".=C2=A0

However, since yang-library as it stands is not suit= able for NMDA servers,

and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#secti= on-5.6.4, it seems that

embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the bes= t option.

=C2=A0


<= /div>
Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data i= n 1 response?
This is not the case at all if you augment /modules= -state from another module.
The augmented data is in the same tre= e.

The "1.0" in the capability refers to= the capability definition itself.
It in no way means RFC 7895 ha= s to be used as the YANG library.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is ea= ch vendor can choose the datastores

> that support a YANG module.=C2=A0 This metadata= MUST come from the YANG module

> itself.=C2=A0 This is not a vendor implementati= on decision. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Assuming 's/is each/if each/', that's no= t what we're saying.=C2=A0 Of course, modules

are primarily deployed to datastores as they have al= ways been.=C2=A0 The only real

new thing here is that some modules may be datastore= -specific, especially with

regards to dynamic datastores.=C2=A0 But the expecta= tion is that any such module-

deployment limitations would be called out in the as= sociated RFC, perhaps in

the form of a new YANG extension statement.

=C2=A0





=

=C2=A0

> Andy

=C2=A0

Kent


Andy
=C2=A0

<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
module).

But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.= 0?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&module-set-id= =3D<id>

and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.

Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
top-level container called "yang library", which would contain an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).

Thoughts?

Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
support the revised-datastores draft.

Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
draft as a WG item?

Thanks,
Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc= 7895bis
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Module Library
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895= bis-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00=


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG library that provides informati= on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management server= (e.g.,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simp= le caching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval= of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

=C2=A0


--001a1144ea2a04797f05527e856a-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 14:19:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B00128B4E for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZ5GSYfh9oVy for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 585F81289B0 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 77so151793145wrb.1 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mTPK6tf3nz3I7cG3GALCgg0zWn7amWTS/XRtIhq2mVE=; b=pH4U0RgL0T0lwly2W8/d2vM9ei1tBHIkA8uXDsPjC0ilfYf3/eHDzajCfpU6ew5HHn EjuzlvDcjE/1gzbUnrh2BkDbkybMCDsX71L2oCRU20T/WbyyxEgHWn2CYHkCEFEoXLw2 Sz7WxXWC2EV2hgqlSaS3P8b7vd3KlSZJXWySOcX4g9ytZZo8ulK/t9BA/VZUeaWRqMiZ e/B+iWqc54sIjF8EZEXi4XRc2drUBJxCRK9W2er253JEcu21lQkfscf4+6dfnTFWB6T3 k6R+aG0V4dU2hHObO2tFIwSwzy7RxruZCYztg9JXimlvLTYHAcNvHMQDbeikNRCuTDSX icwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mTPK6tf3nz3I7cG3GALCgg0zWn7amWTS/XRtIhq2mVE=; b=DYn8ENABkz2LHyOPL8/F/qub8I9Y+lj9OPwsQ9fd0ODVXLn4Qfliz7NIP/RL9Kv5GN 0BzEf6KsfXneuXC2y0/e0Y6Ah5QMmjX38oIWt0JVY45vXedRRkiN3VXvSwaQOnSpb1gr DhAXqlXAouB1XeFfwJXBFpjCyXaGXdOu1K6nxhGzwuHAFFRNBHTfidxvTfvu4SgJ4jS1 vTHNx9ch5d5O4DydB2BfyipCJkobdG/rBKF7oVKx70JJC5Be5uadJI4YRZFB4F9EZUA6 9IRXZBEFklN4/SRwGML0fvud0lRnjrsMtQL8fY2ia6ovBGI3qYdpETXam0ttz2BK0TSp RNtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxoFggMwna32/xaCxYDtr13HHcr0qXn5XwhLv58gBcJeZiiQE67 pYVRNeVw0C42lobFsqOLIWUc2uIsNv8n X-Received: by 10.28.170.193 with SMTP id t184mr8157165wme.124.1498079942716; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:19:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Phil Shafer , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11478262d4c1cd05527eea72" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:19:07 -0000 --001a11478262d4c1cd05527eea72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. > > > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used > > > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library > module itself. > > > > > > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. > > > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version. > > > > Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new > revision date. > > > > > > > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module > > > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in > this case). > > > > Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since > yang-library > > as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. > > > The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 need to be rewritten? > > > > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that > > > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores > > > have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should > > > not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable > functionality > > > is being added to the standards. > > > > I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules > > will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state of > their > > config true nodes would only be available via the new > datastore. > > Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to > report > > all their data. > > > Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to read the operational values of config=true nodes. Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang modules as needed for new style modules. There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state). It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that nobody is happy with. > > > Andy > > > > Kent > > > Andy > > > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: > > Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was > a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits > any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". > > Thanks, > Phil > > > > Kent Watsen writes: > > > > > >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > >module). > > > >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > > revision=&module-set-id= > > > >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > > >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > > >Thoughts? > > > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > >support the revised-datastores draft. > > > >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > >draft as a WG item? > > > >Thanks, > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > >Revision: 00 > >Title: YANG Module Library > >Document date: 2017-05-30 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 15 > >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- > drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. > >txt > >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis/ > >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf- > rfc7895bis-00 > >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > >Abstract: > > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > > this information. > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --001a11478262d4c1cd05527eea72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capabilit= y URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise = the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to = the ietf-yang-library module itself.

>=C2=A0

> The text does not say a specific revision date = MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find t= he proper module version.

=C2=A0

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-lib= rary:1.0 with a new revision date.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you f= rom writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is requ= ired (which it isn't in this case).

=C2=A0

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best = approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA ser= vers.

=C2=A0


The module represents YANG module conformance informa= tion for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms a= s defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever f= or many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. = The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to = change them.=C2=A0 We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new n= on-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.<= /p>

=C2=A0

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that f= uture YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it mea= ns that the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the ne= w <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compa= tible in order to report

all their data.

=C2=A0



Many people are OK with the limitation= s of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operation= al values of config=3Dtrue nodes.=C2=A0 Vendors can deploy the fake foo-sta= te.yang
modules as needed for new style modules.=C2=A0
=
There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-d= ata(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD a= nd schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be b= etter than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.




<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net>= wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?=C2= =A0 It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-librar= y:1.0?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&module-set-= id=3D<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contai= n
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc78= 95bis
>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 00
>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A015
>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895= bis-00.
>txt
>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00=
>
>
>Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG library that provides infor= mation
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management se= rver (e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 = Simple caching
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retri= eval of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org<= /a>
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org<= /a>
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

=C2=A0


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Ip=[66.129.239.15]; Helo=[P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB1978 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:19:27 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: >On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another >module. The current setup is unsuitable for augmentation. IIRC it was you that pointed out that augmenting the module list with a list of supported datastores will break backwards compatibility with clients that assume that any listed module will be supported in . >The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. >It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. The root cause is that we've put comformance with "yang-library:1.0" into the spec for YANG (1.1 at least) and this prevents us from replacing it with something else. My proposal is that we make a new container that holds a list of supported modules, and under each module is a container called "conditional". If this container is present, the client should ensure that it understands all the data under that container before accessing that module. An NMDA module would then augment that container with a list of supported datastores. Further modules could similarly augment their data, knowing that they will not be replicating our current situation (where clients don't know and don't know that they don't know). This frees us from having to respin yang-library when the next new idea requires it. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Jun 21 14:26:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253DB128954 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nbt8Yx6-DyS0 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x231.google.com (mail-wr0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04D15127977 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x231.google.com with SMTP id c11so96550744wrc.3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QTWwz0S7Wq3YrF50cPx61uqx6PANp5jODS7JkUaKmjA=; b=OTG+prvim8qRWb9CL6LRnZ60P3QCebbhQiflNBq49KEI3RcZGiuqI024erye3gzzK3 W0cmbVYNZUSzIJh4/hTAP82bDxi9ETBy15cQynWyjO+QYwsyT91NR6y2Yn40YvapLjmk 5B3cS8tsRu9Y8Zs0Ia4T8Ws3H19xKfB6D7VVmiQH+DzXPkj96h4LwL6SLW5ya42blGTx gdEdNAeL1X+uldLxxlHE7hGLsLh81AGei4I9HqDWSZzFlurSPT6QCSac87Aup3PH9HNs iSfupuU+oMbxsibHoKqwpuEPO91Qa14ml6pou1UHd8+GkDfYT8ObVUCNYdpqZce85biQ spYA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QTWwz0S7Wq3YrF50cPx61uqx6PANp5jODS7JkUaKmjA=; b=ZJ+UgiQVpoUgb/ypTgHX+p4EpKx1mNDwjHYTWpWm3/Ao8zD/bik9gbuMs+tb4Ao1Ej tMpCfgkfLuARbO7YCP17K5/hn/42APiF6x4gTueC1jV1TzVWGZq4UdiA4jEYFQyFpsNz IRK0ZwrOSJAJBk7nScF0qJG9DXX11KqsdMcTXr3uJIJOL7tGI5OhcRdTWEqrCUbWjTAz CbZIPgH47vFjGmnHyApO3CLZ8C/n2h8mS783dO8j2RIbY4PvrbNMdlCfcDQiNss91lwL J25pw2LeEeBwcyb5tBLqzIleqGl/BmSQmKuH+A8QjF1rHM40yGLqamvPSPUyIRDhRXnT VwOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOza1UW6mGjNGrMCNxvBGuB9NbOouG39VCKPO6SI4CRlzTyrKAAQ 6nEuRKN3Sw6hVH21Rb/gqaGNYDWqN3Py X-Received: by 10.28.151.207 with SMTP id z198mr8072976wmd.48.1498080371471; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201706212119.v5LLJqOe016623@idle.juniper.net> References: <201706212119.v5LLJqOe016623@idle.juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:26:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Phil Shafer Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2a63112005527f04a6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:26:15 -0000 --001a1144ea2a63112005527f04a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another > >module. > > The current setup is unsuitable for augmentation. IIRC it was > you that pointed out that augmenting the module list with a > list of supported datastores will break backwards compatibility > with clients that assume that any listed module will be supported > in . > > Then you want a completely different module. Any solution that maps server implementations to datastores instead of schema definitions to datastores is really broken. What you are really doing is introducing a whole new type of module deviations, ala SNMP MIN-ACCESS. Not a step forward for standards. A traditional client does not care about I2RS so there are no compatibility issues. > >The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. > >It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. > > The root cause is that we've put comformance with "yang-library:1.0" > into the spec for YANG (1.1 at least) and this prevents us from > replacing it with something else. > > My proposal is that we make a new container that holds a list of > supported modules, and under each module is a container called > "conditional". If this container is present, the client should > ensure that it understands all the data under that container before > accessing that module. > > An NMDA module would then augment that container with a list of > supported datastores. Further modules could similarly augment their > data, knowing that they will not be replicating our current situation > (where clients don't know and don't know that they don't know). > > This frees us from having to respin yang-library when the next new > idea requires it. > I don't see how this relates to the YANG library at all. You are creating something new that is not applicable to every YANG implementation. > > Thanks, > Phil > Andy --001a1144ea2a63112005527f04a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net><= /span> wrote:
Andy Bierman writes:
>On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another<= br> >module.

The current setup is unsuitable for augmentation.=C2=A0 IIRC it was
you that pointed out that augmenting the module list with a
list of supported datastores will break backwards compatibility
with clients that assume that any listed module will be supported
in <running>.


Then you want a completely different m= odule.
Any solution that maps server implementations to datastore= s instead
of schema definitions to datastores is really broken.
What you are really doing is introducing a whole new type of
=
module deviations, ala SNMP MIN-ACCESS. Not a step forward for standar= ds.

A traditional client does not care about I2RS = so there are no compatibility issues.

=C2=A0
=
>The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definiti= on itself.
>It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library.

The root cause is that we've put comformance with "yang-library:1.= 0"
into the spec for YANG (1.1 at least) and this prevents us from
replacing it with something else.

My proposal is that we make a new container that holds a list of
supported modules, and under each module is a container called
"conditional".=C2=A0 If this container is present, the client sho= uld
ensure that it understands all the data under that container before
accessing that module.

An NMDA module would then augment that container with a list of
supported datastores.=C2=A0 Further modules could similarly augment their data, knowing that they will not be replicating our current situation
(where clients don't know and don't know that they don't know).=

This frees us from having to respin yang-library when the next new
idea requires it.

I don't see how t= his relates to the YANG library at all.
You are creating somethin= g new that is not applicable to every YANG implementation.
=C2=A0=

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil

Andy

--001a1144ea2a63112005527f04a6-- From nobody Wed Jun 21 19:03:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8C1129412 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e2VcFEmJDTTh for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91766126CE8 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id c11so3345938wrc.3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=emVHQWcomChpkRgyhbaOfMF+VVOeH2+fjmGjCEK2zu0=; b=zFFKf6dnuGK0sYT+YRQoB5c1NnZxLe4akloToNVF7vY7Bnf5r2u2jy9UCEH39hbLxm eN/tWdr9me7jU6rnqOAxEj7re9vGBpf/5HjNBFPFK+aly9mt+8Ro6qvKIT8i0RJapfBE Qv2B8MKjfs1v1z2LZEDMVUzD8EP0cKSuPctjXIbL6I0d29xUpi4vMmxqYRJV9na05IQn qx2D6BsTcMFZf7wzyTpa+I6mwZNi4c4JFppqMdxs4shTqlnjju7F5QWyJskHX0Xsq6kj gClPz1ZMZ7Con6jUl8XNp4Pg6IRzA6TTa7uL+jeh6foycW4V7spPMTD7xBv50Ja5a3MY +R+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=emVHQWcomChpkRgyhbaOfMF+VVOeH2+fjmGjCEK2zu0=; b=AQyZXbkxpSW6a8vYFdFgk2A9sSrLNa+T/mIU8wsaL77y+ijAU5HXtbNHUjk6j7w/G5 ONwCxFidoh7AfQVlqOAqlF+EYOoDuq8aJdb1sQe/eqMXi6Wsnh/fZpV6VzBzb+o4H8q4 cKkj7aHa82xvcbGTSJf/Qyy9AuIqx2jhCf/bCbgSUm2FS/Y198b0o2W3Tuz0AuOypOcR hkfRjdCgK3gJgcLLqWLcUz7mK5KI8hkcLn0AAwSGaHrBA/Vm5Kcq5fJbf/P2KpacKwXs sT/int4zkdTq/FYwF9dJpPB+y9W0KC01OvxrrQpA07vmXlvd6M9jSXGqdhaEr4Mivb5j fiZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw+xTpF9/Dl4FMWOl+hx2tBLDFhiJ/afKpb1fSVhB08887GRltr uirJrYvaOsTwugwqjL1wA3f9moH8fj+iCWs= X-Received: by 10.28.30.3 with SMTP id e3mr371947wme.60.1498097013050; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201706212119.v5LLJqOe016623@idle.juniper.net> References: <201706212119.v5LLJqOe016623@idle.juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Phil Shafer Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b35084d640c055282e40a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 02:03:37 -0000 --001a114b35084d640c055282e40a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Here is my YANG extension based proposal for RD, instead of a server implementation specific mapping from module to datastore 1) make a guideline/rule that YANG modules do not mix datastore models so there is 1 datastore model for the whole module 2) add some definitions to ietf-datastore.yang extension datastore-model { argument type; description "Identifies the datastore model type that is used in this module. This statement must be contained within the module-stmt and should be near the top of the module. The parameter 'type' specifies the datastore type, which is represented as a YANG leaf of type identityref, base datastore-type. Example: rd:datastore-model rd:revised-datastore; "; } identity datastore-model { description "Abstract base identity for datastore model identities."; } identity netconf-datastore { base datastore-model; description "Identifies the NETCONF datastore model, as defined in RFC 6241."; } identity revised-datastore { base datastore-model; description "Identifies the Revised datastore model, as defined in RD-draft."; } identity i2rs-datastore { base datastore-model; description "Identifies the I2RS datastore model, as defined in I2RS-draft."; } The default is "netconf-datastore" so that all existing traditional YANG modules already comply with this mechanism. Andy On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another > >module. > > The current setup is unsuitable for augmentation. IIRC it was > you that pointed out that augmenting the module list with a > list of supported datastores will break backwards compatibility > with clients that assume that any listed module will be supported > in . > > >The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. > >It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. > > The root cause is that we've put comformance with "yang-library:1.0" > into the spec for YANG (1.1 at least) and this prevents us from > replacing it with something else. > > My proposal is that we make a new container that holds a list of > supported modules, and under each module is a container called > "conditional". If this container is present, the client should > ensure that it understands all the data under that container before > accessing that module. > > An NMDA module would then augment that container with a list of > supported datastores. Further modules could similarly augment their > data, knowing that they will not be replicating our current situation > (where clients don't know and don't know that they don't know). > > This frees us from having to respin yang-library when the next new > idea requires it. > > Thanks, > Phil > --001a114b35084d640c055282e40a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Here is my YANG extension based pro= posal for RD, instead of a server implementation specific
mapping= from module to datastore

1) make a guideline/rule= that YANG modules do not mix datastore models
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 so t= here is 1 datastore model for the whole module

=C2= =A02) add some definitions to ietf-datastore.yang

= =C2=A0extension datastore-model {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 argument type;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &qu= ot;Identifies the datastore model type that is used in this module.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This statement must be contained with= in the module-stmt and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 should = be near the top of the module.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The parameter 'type' specifies the datastor= e type, which is represented
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0as a YANG leaf of type identityref, base datastore-type.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Example:
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rd:datastore-model = rd:revised-datastore;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0";
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 identity datastore-model {=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &= quot;Abstract base identity for datastore model identities.";
=C2= =A0 }

=C2=A0 identity netconf-datastore {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0base datastore-model;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies the NETCONF datastore model, a= s defined in RFC 6241.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0identity revised-datastore {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bas= e datastore-model;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies the Revised datastore model, as defined = in RD-draft.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0identity i2rs-datastore {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0base d= atastore-model;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies the I2RS datastore model, as defined in I2RS= -draft.";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

The = default is "netconf-datastore" so that all existing traditional Y= ANG modules
already comply with this mechanism.


Andy



On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at= 2:19 PM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:
Andy Bierman writes:
>On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
>This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another<= br> >module.

The current setup is unsuitable for augmentation.=C2=A0 IIRC it was
you that pointed out that augmenting the module list with a
list of supported datastores will break backwards compatibility
with clients that assume that any listed module will be supported
in <running>.

>The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definiti= on itself.
>It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library.

The root cause is that we've put comformance with "yang-library:1.= 0"
into the spec for YANG (1.1 at least) and this prevents us from
replacing it with something else.

My proposal is that we make a new container that holds a list of
supported modules, and under each module is a container called
"conditional".=C2=A0 If this container is present, the client sho= uld
ensure that it understands all the data under that container before
accessing that module.

An NMDA module would then augment that container with a list of
supported datastores.=C2=A0 Further modules could similarly augment their data, knowing that they will not be replicating our current situation
(where clients don't know and don't know that they don't know).=

This frees us from having to respin yang-library when the next new
idea requires it.

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil

--001a114b35084d640c055282e40a-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 08:07:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC7F129AD7 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:07:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id srZ2BDvW6OD3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA4CF126DC2 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:07:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=26591; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498144065; x=1499353665; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=CAfSlJy2rX98jtq0+XyZ3MeRjsdNtx+YlDQnevgeNTk=; b=TaLsB7+ZGxXe2j4cVAEU28bG0lEHVvBP78G6/HZCdgoqDyOHv8TGff1V al4bgkonIc/b0zPF6KxC17ahXzHUUDilwPKa8yDuCjamH3yVC5YnVLjFj OkJERGsjC5gKP550j6784DjWW7Zk7MUH9S0/fZMD7aZJw6XvOucO+DNuL w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C2AACm3EtZ/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBhDqBDY4Fc5BLIpV4ghEhAQyFLEoCgz8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECAQEBbAkCBQsLEgYgBwcnHwMOBgEMBgIBAReKCQgQriMqiz4BAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdgyeDTIFgKwuBYoEMhEYOhgoFkEGGXIdGhzOML4IJVoR?= =?us-ascii?q?yg0sjhlCJJYMniEofOIEKMCEIGxUfKoRUboFOPzYBhx2CPwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,373,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="695334227" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Jun 2017 15:07:42 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5MF7gIW028570; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:07:42 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen References: <2CEADD3B-F882-4404-8F26-D21BFA2AB211@juniper.net> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <3fce1f5e-f174-84b8-5429-0448127f5f14@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:07:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3E6B04D573A595E80F3510AE" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:07:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3E6B04D573A595E80F3510AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andy, On 21/06/2017 21:50, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > > I am confused. > > > Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise > ietf-datastores:1.0? > > We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata a server can > provide > > in one response. We originally thought about "ietf-datastores", > but that didn't > > fit the bill, so then we considered "server-metainfo" and then > "yang-library2". > > However, since yang-library as it stands is not suitable for NMDA > servers, > > and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#section-5.6.4, it > seems that > > embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the best option. > > > Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data in 1 > response? > This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another > module. > The augmented data is in the same tree. > > The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. > It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. > > > IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can > choose the datastores > > > that support a YANG module. This metadata MUST come from the > YANG module > > > itself. This is not a vendor implementation decision. > > Assuming 's/is each/if each/', that's not what we're saying. Of > course, modules > > are primarily deployed to datastores as they have always been. > The only real > > new thing here is that some modules may be datastore-specific, > especially with > > regards to dynamic datastores. But the expectation is that any > such module- > > deployment limitations would be called out in the associated RFC, > perhaps in > > the form of a new YANG extension statement. > > > > Seems to me there is a simple static mapping from YANG to datastore for > everything except I2RS. The solution should add localized-cost only to > systems using I2RS. > > The I2RS solution proposals seem better because they tag the YANG module > not the server implementation. A mapping that is read at runtime and can > possibly change and can be different on every server is very high > maintenance. > I think that there may need to be some sort of combination. I'm not sure that you want to tag every node that is writable via I2RS, since this might require all existing modules to be updated to reflect this, although it could potentially be achieved via something like a deviation statement. Personally, I think that "config true" should at least mean that the node is configurable via regular NETCONF/RESTCONF. I also think that it is reasonable for an I2RS specific module to label the module, or nodes, as "config false, ephemeral true" to indicate that they are only writable via I2RS. But it isn't clear to me that all "config true" nodes/modules will necessarily be configurable via I2RS. I could imagine that it may be a much narrower subset of modules/nodes, which is why the suggestion was that the server should advertise which modules (and possibly even which features) are supported for an I2RS datastore. Another case where a per datastore list of supported modules could be the useful, is the example that you have previously given of just wanting to support only operational state without configuration. In this case the device could report that it doesn't support the configuration datastores, or perhaps that it doesn't support any modules in those datastores. Thanks, Rob > > > Andy > > Kent > > > Andy > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > > This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > module). > > But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > revision=&module-set-id= > > and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > (so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > Thoughts? > > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > support the revised-datastores draft. > > Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > draft as a WG item? > > Thanks, > Kent > > > -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > Revision: 00 > Title: YANG Module Library > Document date: 2017-05-30 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 15 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ > > Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > Abstract: > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > about all the YANG modules used by a network management > server (e.g., > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple > caching > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval of > this information. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time > of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org . > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------3E6B04D573A595E80F3510AE Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Andy,


On 21/06/2017 21:50, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 

> I am confused.

> Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise ietf-datastores:1.0?

 

We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata a server can provide

in one response.  We originally thought about "ietf-datastores", but that didn't

fit the bill, so then we considered "server-metainfo" and then "yang-library2". 

However, since yang-library as it stands is not suitable for NMDA servers,

and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#section-5.6.4, it seems that

embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the best option.

 


Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data in 1 response?
This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another module.
The augmented data is in the same tree.

The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself.
It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library.

 

 

> IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can choose the datastores

> that support a YANG module.  This metadata MUST come from the YANG module

> itself.  This is not a vendor implementation decision.  

 

Assuming 's/is each/if each/', that's not what we're saying.  Of course, modules

are primarily deployed to datastores as they have always been.  The only real

new thing here is that some modules may be datastore-specific, especially with

regards to dynamic datastores.  But the expectation is that any such module-

deployment limitations would be called out in the associated RFC, perhaps in

the form of a new YANG extension statement.

 



Seems to me there is a simple static mapping from YANG to datastore for
everything except I2RS.  The solution should add localized-cost only to
systems using I2RS.  

The I2RS solution proposals seem better because they tag the YANG module
not the server implementation.  A mapping that is read at runtime and can
possibly change and can be different on every server is very high maintenance.

I think that there may need to be some sort of combination.

I'm not sure that you want to tag every node that is writable via I2RS, since this might require all existing modules to be updated to reflect this, although it could potentially be achieved via something like a deviation statement.

Personally, I think that "config true" should at least mean that the node is configurable via regular NETCONF/RESTCONF.

I also think that it is reasonable for an I2RS specific module to label the module, or nodes, as "config false, ephemeral true" to indicate that they are only writable via I2RS.

But it isn't clear to me that all "config true" nodes/modules will necessarily be configurable via I2RS.  I could imagine that it may be a much narrower subset of modules/nodes, which is why the suggestion was that the server should advertise which modules (and possibly even which features) are supported for an I2RS datastore.

Another case where a per datastore list of supported modules could be the useful, is the example that you have previously given of just wanting to support only operational state without configuration.  In this case the device could report that it doesn't support the configuration datastores, or perhaps that it doesn't support any modules in those datastores.

Thanks,
Rob



 

> Andy

 

Kent


Andy
 

 

 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
module).

But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:

     urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0?
       revision=<date>&module-set-id=<id>

and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.

Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
top-level container called "yang library", which would contain
an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).

Thoughts?

Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
support the revised-datastores draft.

Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
draft as a WG item?

Thanks,
Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
Revision:       00
Title:          YANG Module Library
Document date:  2017-05-30
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          15
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00


Abstract:
   This document describes a YANG library that provides information
   about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
   a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).  Simple caching
   mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
   this information.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



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Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf


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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 




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--------------3E6B04D573A595E80F3510AE-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 09:15:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CCA9129AD5 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:15:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1GnK9v1N36A for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B054129789 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:15:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=31083; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498148137; x=1499357737; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=IdKxCAdJH/YiY4hLZh+Xe2BUtUgoi1Hi1Afru34kj5g=; b=X63e159kAAgucMfCKqJnWZLXp9dQfxvIr+YMT23vsPHToeT9PeqalXhr 1cMq0FNGEmXqxrZYaXVxj1N+hfrobNO9OXtm6NvfMVErZSHGRMPMiNNUO fN2b1cGZhZW/dA6Hz9JuEVCpFlBLivzjmCHIWamRPjr3ZIW/L9dpNd8ln U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C2AAAl7EtZ/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBhDqBDY4Fc5BKInOVBYIRIQEMhSxKAoM/GAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRg?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAgEBAWwJAgULCxIGIAEGBycfAw4GAQwGAgEBF4oJCBCuMiqLPwEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2DJ4NMgWArC4FiWDSERg6GCgWQQYZch0aHM4M9iHK?= =?us-ascii?q?CCVaEcoNLI4ZQiSWDJ4hKHziBCjAhCBsVHyqEVDkcGYFOPzaHHoI/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,373,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="655611343" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Jun 2017 16:15:34 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5MGFYUs001881; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:15:34 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:15:34 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E55FB134B29FE4002778B5B5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:15:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E55FB134B29FE4002778B5B5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen > wrote: > > > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. > > > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date > used > > > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the > ietf-yang-library module itself. > > > > > > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. > > > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module > version. > > Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with > a new revision date. > > > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new > module > > > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it > isn't in this case). > > Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since > yang-library > > as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. > > > The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. > You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 > need to be rewritten? > > > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that > > > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional > datastores > > > have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We > should > > > not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable > functionality > > > is being added to the standards. > > I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules > > will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational > state of their > > config true nodes would only be available via the new > datastore. > > Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order > to report > > all their data. > > > > Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and > do not want to > read the operational values of config=true nodes. But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled. The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter. But I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be? I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it to do". So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false. So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients. Rob > Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang > modules as needed for new style modules. > > There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, > operational) instead of get(/foo-state). > > It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD > and schema-mount will > cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a > 1-size-fits-all that > nobody is happy with. > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > > Andy > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer > wrote: > > Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was > a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits > any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". > > Thanks, > Phil > > > > Kent Watsen writes: > > > > > >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution > >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another > >module). > > > >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, > >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: > > > > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? > > revision=&module-set-id= > > > >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that > >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would > >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. > > > >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation > >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that > >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way > >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new > >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain > >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and > >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). > > > >Thoughts? > > > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to > >support the revised-datastores draft. > > > >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this > >draft as a WG item? > > > >Thanks, > >Kent > > > > > >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the > >IETF repository. > > > >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis > >Revision: 00 > >Title: YANG Module Library > >Document date: 2017-05-30 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 15 > >URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > . > >txt > >Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ > > >Htmlized: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > >Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 > > > > > > >Abstract: > > This document describes a YANG library that provides > information > > about all the YANG modules used by a network management > server (e.g., > > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). > Simple caching > > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize > retrieval of > > this information. > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the > time of submission > >until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org . > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Netconf mailing list > >Netconf@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------E55FB134B29FE4002778B5B5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 

 

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

> 

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

 

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

 

 

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case).

 

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

 


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
 

 

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.  We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

 

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

 



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=true nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.  But I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?  I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it to do".

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.

Rob

  Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules. 

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


 

> Andy

 

Kent

 



Andy
 

 

 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?  It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
 Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>     urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0?
>       revision=<date>&module-set-id=<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:          draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
>Revision:      00
>Title:         YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:         Individual Submission
>Pages:         15
>URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>   This document describes a YANG library that provides information
>   about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
>   a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).  Simple caching
>   mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
>   this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 




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--------------E55FB134B29FE4002778B5B5-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 09:21:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E41129ABE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hih5oBeIVByn for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x235.google.com (mail-wr0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A626C126579 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x235.google.com with SMTP id c11so30012962wrc.3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=EewBJYd8GVHrwgvz82zLy5OuTNhlK4503vVvRhCaMEk=; b=QFq5pFVrSdkmZDH0uaGpPYXkjKIoDuTPjIh5pdrxMUAOGW+nXakeynucKnF7Qeh78w uqEDazxIbbA9oiuVHIhzyjgln6A3+76+jalNcGKbaavhSNSFwdUt3DqwbQJdIbgk9cjH 8CijrOoL1MmbmZJ7vfG7ZN4mqkAuj8LDaacxSzXopao0sA4xmb4AcfVP8JQAtXmE74dz kAWXKUUcLSmEcZ5DPnODMptNeFgqmgb0I2z8QxNFpRnX3LdSvnDTtkkq0wBR+C5EADCJ M9kcDV/ZMNGy9GtKyvmRCUadEaGDbD3neJCNhm5BITwFDJOh6d+N/ta4YTOQ+UAdFi8S v6EA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EewBJYd8GVHrwgvz82zLy5OuTNhlK4503vVvRhCaMEk=; b=rfDpfvH+BLav1u54f+Hl2m7c3ukFK1TlpIQPtUy0J1pBQktC3ULlosxyDBQvTG6n2T uLlhCuUJQ9zL2RjY6vmsWzoNK4E3zdYSq6zR1aZKBp6gzOgU3g2v5eXb9aYAGzcTDs3U DpFx9FC+3uPPOgPrjiG3G0UEGOBizLhDT+QtuyY65yM1R1Sb1YTpe5rjAZ0xwdJ2L0kt 3Qo5giS9X//WQ+LooNxqwOxKgvncEgmr0tsfOmKb7wJQ4Um/kRabrV0sjZoCUV08zJEm P4B0r2/bz/SAB/2R2Cf4CrXJE73ayY+yx56krP3w448RBtbjK7AU3MD8yXH+MVAMY/vC 2NyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyPozsN+NRIAMk+8aImnu+rjmZ7ua5ybVn1aJMpItg4QTFnKf+7 hTmsS72p8Iqpxayvrup7tr7FJQPe731m X-Received: by 10.223.176.253 with SMTP id j58mr2528294wra.65.1498148485916; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3fce1f5e-f174-84b8-5429-0448127f5f14@cisco.com> References: <2CEADD3B-F882-4404-8F26-D21BFA2AB211@juniper.net> <3fce1f5e-f174-84b8-5429-0448127f5f14@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:21:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c0204c5302bf05528ee06b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:21:31 -0000 --001a11c0204c5302bf05528ee06b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > Hi Andy, > > On 21/06/2017 21:50, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> >> >> > I am confused. >> >> > Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise >> ietf-datastores:1.0? >> >> >> >> We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata a server can provide >> >> in one response. We originally thought about "ietf-datastores", but that >> didn't >> >> fit the bill, so then we considered "server-metainfo" and then >> "yang-library2". >> >> However, since yang-library as it stands is not suitable for NMDA >> servers, >> >> and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#section-5.6.4, it seems >> that >> >> embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the best option. >> >> >> > > Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data in 1 > response? > This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another > module. > The augmented data is in the same tree. > > The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capability definition itself. > It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library. > > > >> >> >> > IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can choose the >> datastores >> >> > that support a YANG module. This metadata MUST come from the YANG >> module >> >> > itself. This is not a vendor implementation decision. >> >> >> >> Assuming 's/is each/if each/', that's not what we're saying. Of course, >> modules >> >> are primarily deployed to datastores as they have always been. The only >> real >> >> new thing here is that some modules may be datastore-specific, especially >> with >> >> regards to dynamic datastores. But the expectation is that any such >> module- >> >> deployment limitations would be called out in the associated RFC, perhaps >> in >> >> the form of a new YANG extension statement. >> >> >> > > > Seems to me there is a simple static mapping from YANG to datastore for > everything except I2RS. The solution should add localized-cost only to > systems using I2RS. > > The I2RS solution proposals seem better because they tag the YANG module > not the server implementation. A mapping that is read at runtime and can > possibly change and can be different on every server is very high > maintenance. > > I think that there may need to be some sort of combination. > > I'm not sure that you want to tag every node that is writable via I2RS, > since this might require all existing modules to be updated to reflect > this, although it could potentially be achieved via something like a > deviation statement. > My solution proposal is 1 extension-stmt per module, one datastore model per module. I did not mean to suggest individual object tagging. If you want a solution that client developers will hate, then let every server implementation make up their own datastore model like they were making a salad from the salad bar. > > Personally, I think that "config true" should at least mean that the node > is configurable via regular NETCONF/RESTCONF. > > agreed > I also think that it is reasonable for an I2RS specific module to label > the module, or nodes, as "config false, ephemeral true" to indicate that > they are only writable via I2RS. > > that has been one proposal going back to the NYC interim. > But it isn't clear to me that all "config true" nodes/modules will > necessarily be configurable via I2RS. I could imagine that it may be a > much narrower subset of modules/nodes, which is why the suggestion was that > the server should advertise which modules (and possibly even which > features) are supported for an I2RS datastore. > there are 2 issues: 1) conformance: what is a compliant I2RS agent required to support 2) deviations: what does this non-compliant I2RS agent actually support > > Another case where a per datastore list of supported modules could be the > useful, is the example that you have previously given of just wanting to > support only operational state without configuration. In this case the > device could report that it doesn't support the configuration datastores, > or perhaps that it doesn't support any modules in those datastores. > This MIN-ACCESS approach has been rejected in the past because the focus of NETCONF is configuration management, so allowing a vendor to implement NETCONF but not support configuration did not seem appropriate. But YANG conformance has no way of expressing MIN-ACCESS. > Thanks, > Rob > > Andy > > > >> >> > Andy >> >> >> >> Kent >> > > Andy > > >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >> >> >> This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution >> that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another >> module). >> >> But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >> where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >> >> urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >> revision=&module-set-id= >> >> and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that >> the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >> not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >> >> Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation >> of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >> does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >> (so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new >> top-level container called "yang library", which would contain >> an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >> datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Kent >> >> >> -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> >> A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >> support the revised-datastores draft. >> >> Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >> draft as a WG item? >> >> Thanks, >> Kent >> >> >> -----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >> Revision: 00 >> Title: YANG Module Library >> Document date: 2017-05-30 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 15 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >> drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/d >> raft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes a YANG library that provides information >> about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., >> a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching >> mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of >> this information. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing listNetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --001a11c0204c5302bf05528ee06b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Hi Andy,


On 21/06/2017 21:50= , Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:37 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

> I am confused.

> Why can't a server advertise yang-library:1.0 and also advertise ietf-datastores:1.0?

=C2=A0

We want a module that can provide *all* the metadata a server can provide

in one response.=C2=A0 We origin= ally thought about "ietf-datastores", but that d= idn't

fit the bill, so then we considered "server-metainfo" and then "yang-library2".=C2=A0

However, since yang-library as it stands is not suitable for NMDA servers,

and there is that nasty requirement in rfc7950#section-5.6.4, it seems that

embrace-and-extend yang-library:1.0 might be the best option.

=C2=A0


Why are you assuming a protocol is incapable of retrieving data in 1 response?
This is not the case at all if you augment /modules-state from another module.
The augmented data is in the same tree.

The "1.0" in the capability refers to the capabi= lity definition itself.
It in no way means RFC 7895 has to be used as the YANG library.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO the RD architecture is totally broken is each vendor can choose the datastores

> that support a YANG module.=C2=A0 This metadata MUST come from the YANG module

> itself.=C2=A0 This is not a vendor implementation decision. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Assuming 's/is each/if each/= ', that's not what we're saying.=C2=A0 Of course= , modules

are primarily deployed to datastores as they have always been.=C2=A0 The only real

new thing here is that some modules may be datastore-specific, especially with

regards to dynamic datastores.= =C2=A0 But the expectation is that any such module-

deployment limitations would be called out in the associated RFC, perhaps in

the form of a new YANG extension statement.

=C2=A0



Seems to me there is a simple static mapping from YANG to datastore for
everything except I2RS.=C2=A0 The solution should add localized-cost only to
systems using I2RS. =C2=A0

The I2RS solution proposals seem better because they tag the YANG module
not the server implementation.=C2=A0 A mapping that is rea= d at runtime and can
possibly change and can be different on every server is very high maintenance.

I think that there may need to be some sort of combination.

I'm not sure that you want to tag every node that is writable via I2RS, since this might require all existing modules to be updated to reflect this, although it could potentially be achieved via something like a deviation statement.


My solution proposal is 1 extension-stmt per module= , one datastore model per module.
I did not mean to suggest indiv= idual object tagging. If you want a solution that client developers
will hate, then let every server implementation make up their own datast= ore model
like they were making a salad from the salad bar.
=

=C2=A0

Personally, I think that "config true" should at least mean t= hat the node is configurable via regular NETCONF/RESTCONF.


agreed

<= div>=C2=A0
I also think that it is reasonable for an I2RS specific module to label the module, or nodes, as "config false, ephemeral true"= to indicate that they are only writable via I2RS.


that has been one proposal g= oing back to the NYC interim.
=C2=A0
But it isn't clear to me that all "config true" nodes/mod= ules will necessarily be configurable via I2RS.=C2=A0 I could imagine that it may be a much narrower subset of modules/nodes, which is why the suggestion was that the server should advertise which modules (and possibly even which features) are supported for an I2RS datastore.
<= /div>

there are 2 issues:
=C2=A0 = 1) conformance: what is a compliant I2RS agent required to support
=C2=A0 =C2=A02) deviations: what does this non-compliant I2RS agent actua= lly support

=C2=A0

Another case where a per datastore list of supported modules could be the useful, is the example that you have previously given of just wanting to support only operational state without configuration.=C2=A0 = In this case the device could report that it doesn't support the configuration datastores, or perhaps that it doesn't support any modules in those datastores.

= This MIN-ACCESS approach has been rejected in the past because the focus
of NETCONF is configuration management, so allowing a vendor to imp= lement NETCONF
but not support configuration did not seem appropr= iate. But YANG conformance has
no way of expressing MIN-ACCESS.



Thanks,
Rob


Andy
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


=C2=A0

> Andy

=C2=A0

Kent


Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
module).

But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capab= ility:yang-library:1.0?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>= ;&module-set-id=3D<id>

and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.

Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
does NOT alter the existing "modules-state&q= uot; tree in any way
(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
top-level container called "yang library&quo= t;, which would contain
an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).

Thoughts?

Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
support the revised-datastores draft.

Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
draft as a WG item?

Thanks,
Kent


-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----

A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc789= 5bis-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dra= ft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG Mod= ule Library
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-05-30
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individu= al Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 15
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft= -nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rf= c7895bis/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-= 00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netc= onf-rfc7895bis-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG libra= ry that provides information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protocol (NE= TCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to allow cli= ents to minimize retrieval of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat



____________________________________________= ___
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netco= nf


____________________________________________= ___
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netco= nf

=C2=A0




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--001a11c0204c5302bf05528ee06b-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 09:32:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B01126BF0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 751DkN0SZSco for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22b.google.com (mail-wr0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F53C1270A3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id r103so30558933wrb.0 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JSvTp4BY/1TtpKuil5kKxtiMa+RJnElBDR1whuOuJiU=; b=KiOcyQGV3dBiPzIjA3uMZL/nEBvqenfPZBIgGCCa9eZx/NoioTiB3+dRmdykysaHMM m3YKUjDjWA2IALS+AWdk0vWI5cC1F1p1TkZ819Sbkwlc1dPs8c78hhYS0RJnxjmazYdv I2bKubNq0GL1wgkwjqL2irUpvIv/CxscE/G7DxRwt5/pQX2qZ0VDKUooo5obpLzX6gC0 U4lbUHGZ5uK510aR/LJqYpLbIY5RBIzJbV31s7yGTACfOFr1rC8edTrDusMc3jP/1OZI htKjS4c5o+pMHHMyrLZF6DXO8LMtVolIjEGGwNxyGzSxuliU1mMJsZhJoH4gU8f8rhk4 MCzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JSvTp4BY/1TtpKuil5kKxtiMa+RJnElBDR1whuOuJiU=; b=VciB8rjSgzwMdY5q6rtkxQPMleeEpwpnAh9FDP6UIcmHTdKDJjolrpseLkmBT/VQeQ Lr6WD4xnXIF0R8j4wdKkcuMIb7BZvdz51FitgxqtbBzdCYBLQsz4V/dp+mX7+4byYzhl 4fU4lrCD2D6XvZM6WEw4wvqKmJ3ceofYSFqLagQKDw345XX85wckUwPLTeQX/Ml7aCb3 1AwxVjX5Wkfz1lHkphcOs/UFYOHWEJV85uVz/eXzdWHU3RQMzWsU8ReJ63sk0K7QsL5a uD/c0q9IgOVkIJXeRG4JgS3P8XZEFecm1YhXsJz+I/0VxCVAKPo6z2/DT1C7LSozubkV 3n7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw4bKsYT1Uldnqcf7fsnmMGtcBDKJeo3x+XE/xoxJKKWs8sWVow WVTSNyfA9/jN8SZusWBVvvU+NKjXXCVx X-Received: by 10.28.54.13 with SMTP id d13mr2470079wma.124.1498149136446; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 09:32:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143678e195b7805528f070f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 16:32:22 -0000 --001a1143678e195b7805528f070f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. >> >> > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used >> >> > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library >> module itself. >> >> > >> >> > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. >> >> > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version. >> >> >> >> Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new >> revision date. >> >> >> >> >> >> > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module >> >> > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in >> this case). >> >> >> >> Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since >> yang-library >> >> as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. >> >> >> > > The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. > You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 > need to be rewritten? > > >> >> >> > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that >> >> > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional >> datastores >> >> > have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should >> >> > not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable >> functionality >> >> > is being added to the standards. >> >> >> >> I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules >> >> will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state >> of their >> >> config true nodes would only be available via the new >> datastore. >> >> Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to >> report >> >> all their data. >> >> >> > > > Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do > not want to > read the operational values of config=true nodes. > > But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that > is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. > > E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they > think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it > only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled. > > The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and > applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter. But I think that the > interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: > if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value > should it be? I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than > "what did I asked it to do". > > So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single > datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and > reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than > returning running + config false. > > So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA > architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if > the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a > simplified view to clients. > > You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. If the data modeler expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state leaf is added for the whole data structure. There are so many details a client developer needs to code from the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire project. There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second. NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/datastores and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems. Forcing them to upgrade just to report these same datastores twice is not a good idea. Forcing RD into the mandatory-to-implement YANG library (the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done. Rob > > Andy > Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang > modules as needed for new style modules. > > There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, > operational) instead of get(/foo-state). > > It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and > schema-mount will > cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all > that > nobody is happy with. > > > >> >> > Andy >> >> >> >> Kent >> >> >> > > > Andy > > >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: >> >> Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was >> a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits >> any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". >> >> Thanks, >> Phil >> >> >> >> Kent Watsen writes: >> > >> > >> >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution >> >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another >> >module). >> > >> >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >> > >> > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >> > revision=&module-set-id= >> > >> >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that >> >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >> >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >> > >> >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation >> >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >> >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >> >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new >> >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain >> >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >> >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >> > >> >Thoughts? >> > >> >Kent >> > >> > >> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > >> >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >> >support the revised-datastores draft. >> > >> >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >> >draft as a WG item? >> > >> >Thanks, >> >Kent >> > >> > >> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > >> >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >> >IETF repository. >> > >> >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >> >Revision: 00 >> >Title: YANG Module Library >> >Document date: 2017-05-30 >> >Group: Individual Submission >> >Pages: 15 >> >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >> drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. >> >txt >> >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >> >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/d >> raft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >> doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> > >> > >> >Abstract: >> > This document describes a YANG library that provides information >> > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., >> > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching >> > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of >> > this information. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> > >> >The IETF Secretariat >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Netconf mailing list >> >Netconf@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Netconf mailing list >> >Netconf@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing listNetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > --001a1143678e195b7805528f070f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 21/06/2017 22:19= , Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

>=C2=A0

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

=C2=A0

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case).

=C2=A0

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

=C2=A0


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.=C2=A0 = We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

=C2=A0

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operation= al state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

=C2=A0



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=3Dtrue nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.=C2=A0 But I th= ink that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?=C2=A0 I think that the "what= is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it to do"= ;.

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.


You seem to be making an ass= umption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data
has change= d value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. If the= data modeler
expects there is state data that needs to be expose= d, then 1 oper-state leaf is added
for the whole data structu= re.=C2=A0 There are so many details a client developer needs to code from
the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the en= tire project.

There are many systems that are dist= ributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second.
NETCON= F already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/dat= astores
and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate= , etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined
in RFC 6241 works fine= for these systems.=C2=A0 Forcing them to upgrade just to report these same=
datastores twice is not a good idea.=C2=A0 Forcing RD into the m= andatory-to-implement YANG library
(the only reason YANG library = was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done.


Rob


Andy
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules.=C2=A0

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


=C2=A0

> Andy

=C2=A0

Kent

=C2=A0



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?=C2=A0 It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0&= quot;.

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited b= y rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf= :capability:yang-library:1.0?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&module-set-id= =3D<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' = of yang-library:1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 dra= ft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 00
>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0YAN= G Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ind= ividual Submission
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A015<= br> >URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dra= ft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netco= nf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bi= s-00
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsd= t-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a YANG library that provides information
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules use= d by a network management server (e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configuration Protoc= ol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are provided to all= ow clients to minimize retrieval of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>______________________________________= _________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo= /netconf
>
>
>______________________________________= _________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo= /netconf

__________________________________________= _____
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net= conf

=C2=A0




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--001a1143678e195b7805528f070f-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 10:01:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85765129AF4 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:01:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZhaImBxTNnSI for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82B87129AFF for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:01:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=47323; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498150893; x=1499360493; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=jYctBkSoTkSDiMGzE1dxsPW+8jLvxh9Y56caEnaBJyw=; b=kdd0xVfpHx3NfyOom9Elsyaa1mDjGuNiMVmWyhwk7GUw724JDnJ+KAFr ot8JOuNO8BOK3CtGbAmzisvyVKLJJX9qCul0V4SUZpsycAqpBX4dbJh6H kqes7g5KYQM9APV5usu0Sgbbne57zVn4X6m9t+B4Jbzjfb2JFHxJY8E63 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BpAQD69ktZ/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgyuBDzNag2yKGXOQbHOVBYIRIQEMhSxKAoNAGAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRgBAQEBAgEBASFLCQIFCwkCEgYgAQYDAgInHwMOBg0GAgEBF4oJCBCOMJ1ig?= =?us-ascii?q?iYqgyuIFgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2DJ4NMgWArgW1YNIRGDoMpgmE?= =?us-ascii?q?FiUuGdoFdhH+HRoczgz2IcoIJVoRyg0sjhlCJJYMniEofOIEKMCEIGxUfKoRUO?= =?us-ascii?q?RwZgU4/Nocegj8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,373,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="653792243" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Jun 2017 17:01:30 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5MH1UoL011640; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:01:30 GMT To: Andy Bierman References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 18:01:30 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B69B5178B8E3024FB4E4B5E9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:01:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B69B5178B8E3024FB4E4B5E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote: > > > > On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen > > wrote: >> >> > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. >> >> > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the >> revision-date used >> >> > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the >> ietf-yang-library module itself. >> >> > >> >> > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. >> >> > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper >> module version. >> >> Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 >> with a new revision date. >> >> > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing >> a new module >> >> > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which >> it isn't in this case). >> >> Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, >> since yang-library >> >> as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. >> >> >> The module represents YANG module conformance information for the >> server. >> You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 >> need to be rewritten? >> >> > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many >> devices that >> >> > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The >> traditional datastores >> >> > have their own capability URIs with no need to change >> them. We should >> >> > not disrupt these implementations because new >> non-applicable functionality >> >> > is being added to the standards. >> >> I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future >> YANG modules >> >> will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the >> operational state of their >> >> config true nodes would only be available via the new >> datastore. >> >> Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in >> order to report >> >> all their data. >> >> >> >> Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores >> and do not want to >> read the operational values of config=true nodes. > But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the > data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. > > E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET > request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't > actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked > for foo to be enabled. > > The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the > intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter. But > I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended > and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given > back to the client then which value should it be? I think that > the "what is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it > to do". > > So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a > single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going > to running and reads coming from operational may be a better > compromise rather than returning running + config false. > > So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA > architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, > even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order > to present a simplified view to clients. > > > You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ > when some data > has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" devices at all. I completely appreciate that many of these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly. My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true values is what is required to build robust distributed systems. In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know what configuration the device has actually applied. > If the data modeler > expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 > oper-state leaf is added > for the whole data structure. There are so many details a client > developer needs to code from > the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire > project. The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that config node in a way that can never fail. You either need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore. > > There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still > converge in less than a second. > NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in > /netconf-state/datastores > and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The > NETCONF datastore model defined > in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems. Forcing them to upgrade > just to report these same > datastores twice is not a good idea. Forcing RD into the > mandatory-to-implement YANG library > (the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help > force this extra work to get done. I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice. I'm trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the configuration. Rob > > > Rob > > > Andy > >> Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang >> modules as needed for new style modules. >> >> There is no business case for rewriting clients to use >> get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state). >> >> It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like >> RD and schema-mount will >> cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a >> 1-size-fits-all that >> nobody is happy with. >> >> >> > Andy >> >> Kent >> >> >> >> Andy >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer >> > wrote: >> >> Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was >> a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits >> any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". >> >> Thanks, >> Phil >> >> >> >> Kent Watsen writes: >> > >> > >> >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a >> solution >> >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using >> another >> >module). >> > >> >But alas, it seems that we're limited by >> rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >> > >> > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >> > revision=&module-set-id= >> > >> >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine >> that >> >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they >> would >> >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >> > >> >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another >> variation >> >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >> >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >> >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new >> >top-level container called "yang library", which would >> contain >> >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >> >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >> > >> >Thoughts? >> > >> >Kent >> > >> > >> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > >> >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG >> Library to >> >support the revised-datastores draft. >> > >> >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to >> adopt this >> >draft as a WG item? >> > >> >Thanks, >> >Kent >> > >> > >> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >> > >> >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >> >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and >> posted to the >> >IETF repository. >> > >> >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >> >Revision: 00 >> >Title: YANG Module Library >> >Document date: 2017-05-30 >> >Group: Individual Submission >> >Pages: 15 >> >URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> . >> >txt >> >Status: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >> >> >Htmlized: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> >> >Htmlized: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >> >> > >> > >> >Abstract: >> > This document describes a YANG library that provides >> information >> > about all the YANG modules used by a network >> management server (e.g., >> > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). >> Simple caching >> > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize >> retrieval of >> > this information. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from >> the time of submission >> >until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org . >> > >> >The IETF Secretariat >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Netconf mailing list >> >Netconf@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Netconf mailing list >> >Netconf@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> > --------------B69B5178B8E3024FB4E4B5E9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 

 

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

> 

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

 

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

 

 

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case).

 

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

 


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
 

 

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.  We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

 

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

 



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=true nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.  But I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?  I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it to do".

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.


You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data
has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not.

No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" devices at all.  I completely appreciate that many of these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly.

My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true values is what is required to build robust distributed systems.

In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know what configuration the device has actually applied.

If the data modeler
expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state leaf is added
for the whole data structure.  There are so many details a client developer needs to code from
the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire project.
The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that config node in a way that can never fail.  You either need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore.



There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second.
NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/datastores
and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined
in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems.  Forcing them to upgrade just to report these same
datastores twice is not a good idea.  Forcing RD into the mandatory-to-implement YANG library
(the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done.
I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice.  I'm trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the configuration.

Rob



Rob


Andy
 
  Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules. 

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


 

> Andy

 

Kent

 



Andy
 

 

 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?  It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
 Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>     urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0?
>       revision=<date>&module-set-id=<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:          draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
>Revision:      00
>Title:         YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:         Individual Submission
>Pages:         15
>URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>   This document describes a YANG library that provides information
>   about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
>   a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).  Simple caching
>   mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
>   this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 




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--------------B69B5178B8E3024FB4E4B5E9-- From nobody Thu Jun 22 10:31:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D60128CFF for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y7Bb6uCkaC9l for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48F19128990 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id c11so32540212wrc.3 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GZUnEwQyHaeYlS679OSM5yvqDBmb5K752bhHuYU9v+A=; b=vweaIP/cPZvLZ7hdpvfdcP19GJgPpUBZjen27dfw1ap/qScnUFImpE7L4WhICCBdnB /h4knXWyK+1y8BVJ9akOMun7weAPbCgJOX7HDu/xwoOM1dCLDGuLA5enrB9kdhOLwaxE io8GprY/9e7IE1+PKzNh0GTuY69+LkfX+5AmgL7zK3OJL8Oh00PozMqpV/ydHO15rW0/ fOrhWcxXWQd+QRQL6+4nGTBuTZ47Nq5b75OLa7mJS1jRW9BP6aRsbNtYR/WGNcMNudHz yu76rj8fjZueJ70onReTarCT/Ifi5jKVW7jkzFxw+ld2nHEci0xQcgSIP4dh2jvGZDTB BL9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GZUnEwQyHaeYlS679OSM5yvqDBmb5K752bhHuYU9v+A=; b=CmquhS98H0VBb7JeT/OxfSYNL5BefVLm4Jrq1TeEX34iOv3BPpF4XO6gbI2vBYyeRT HuIssV4/qz/5xyqXTKjxIvX8pgtApfCCeh7ugZyL8kekAQ+dasKsm3MNpUKoHuaO90hh bDdTPfeAhyKbTSKwmzmMZR/gsOv/T4cd9nZO4QQ59aHbnZAB/ylrN/gl5D116/x0Acgt Wh0p0Y+o8yFmaEJEwPZq3XCB7h1ookY/y1Sl3O0DnKanLrCLO+hxHo4hjS6S34GnV7Vc IiqXA3qYFCO8GYySAzdbVuNitwyoyG//EHlLMN8v8L2QaZOMYpb/GwrifwCmBHLM6Lqt PqCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwE7SPrHaavb6bsuxaoB9jk3G8z/fccOnzifkaVFF41NA49Elj6 xv/PEUqf2sNVfFaxF7Gwu840Z0E5mIVR X-Received: by 10.28.191.29 with SMTP id p29mr2461594wmf.60.1498152687659; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 10:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c071c94c4871605528fda8a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:31:33 -0000 --94eb2c071c94c4871605528fda8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > >> >> >> On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. >>> >>> > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used >>> >>> > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library >>> module itself. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. >>> >>> > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module >>> version. >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new >>> revision date. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module >>> >>> > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in >>> this case). >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since >>> yang-library >>> >>> as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. >>> >>> >>> >> >> The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. >> You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 >> need to be rewritten? >> >> >>> >>> >>> > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that >>> >>> > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional >>> datastores >>> >>> > have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should >>> >>> > not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable >>> functionality >>> >>> > is being added to the standards. >>> >>> >>> >>> I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules >>> >>> will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state >>> of their >>> >>> config true nodes would only be available via the new >>> datastore. >>> >>> Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to >>> report >>> >>> all their data. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do >> not want to >> read the operational values of config=true nodes. >> >> But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that >> is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. >> >> E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they >> think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it >> only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled. >> >> The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and >> applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter. But I think that the >> interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: >> if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value >> should it be? I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than >> "what did I asked it to do". >> >> So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single >> datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and >> reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than >> returning running + config false. >> >> So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA >> architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if >> the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a >> simplified view to clients. >> >> > You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when > some data > has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. > > > No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" > devices at all. I completely appreciate that many of these devices > normally apply their configuration very quickly. > > My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices > returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true > values is what is required to build robust distributed systems. > > In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from > the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these > scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of > knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know > what configuration the device has actually applied. > > Thanks for making my point for me. For many deployments there is no business case to update a lot of code to go from 99% to 100%. This is not a new problem, and if it turns out that a config=false oper-status leaf is needed to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that. There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 granularity with the config nodes. It is not really a burden to know about /foo-state/oper-status as a special-case. IMO it is more of a burden to compre entire data structures between intended and operational just to find out the oper-status. Systems that need NMDA should migrate to it. Other systems can use the transition strategy and update as needed over time. Andy If the data modeler > expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state > leaf is added > for the whole data structure. There are so many details a client > developer needs to code from > the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire > project. > > The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all > devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that > config node in a way that can never fail. You either need a duplication of > all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore. > > > > There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in > less than a second. > NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in > /netconf-state/datastores > and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The > NETCONF datastore model defined > in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems. Forcing them to upgrade just to > report these same > datastores twice is not a good idea. Forcing RD into the > mandatory-to-implement YANG library > (the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force > this extra work to get done. > > I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice. I'm trying to > encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. > because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in > the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the > configuration. > > Rob > > > > Rob >> >> > Andy > > >> Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang >> modules as needed for new style modules. >> >> There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, >> operational) instead of get(/foo-state). >> >> It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and >> schema-mount will >> cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all >> that >> nobody is happy with. >> >> >> >>> >>> > Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> Kent >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Andy >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: >>> >>> Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was >>> a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits >>> any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> Kent Watsen writes: >>> > >>> > >>> >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution >>> >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another >>> >module). >>> > >>> >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >>> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >>> > >>> > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >>> > revision=&module-set-id= >>> > >>> >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that >>> >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >>> >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >>> > >>> >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation >>> >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >>> >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >>> >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new >>> >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain >>> >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >>> >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >>> > >>> >Thoughts? >>> > >>> >Kent >>> > >>> > >>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>> > >>> >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >>> >support the revised-datastores draft. >>> > >>> >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >>> >draft as a WG item? >>> > >>> >Thanks, >>> >Kent >>> > >>> > >>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>> > >>> >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >>> >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >>> >IETF repository. >>> > >>> >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >>> >Revision: 00 >>> >Title: YANG Module Library >>> >Document date: 2017-05-30 >>> >Group: Individual Submission >>> >Pages: 15 >>> >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >>> drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. >>> >txt >>> >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >>> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >>> >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/d >>> raft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>> >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >>> doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>> > >>> > >>> >Abstract: >>> > This document describes a YANG library that provides information >>> > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., >>> > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching >>> > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of >>> > this information. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> > >>> >The IETF Secretariat >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Netconf mailing list >>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Netconf mailing list >>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing listNetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >> >> --94eb2c071c94c4871605528fda8a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton <<= a href=3D"mailto:rwilton@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rwilton@cisco.com= > wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 22/06/2017 17:32= , Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net&g= t; wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

>=C2=A0

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

=C2=A0

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case).

=C2=A0

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

=C2=A0


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.=C2=A0 We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

=C2=A0

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means t= hat the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

=C2=A0



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=3Dtrue nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.=C2=A0 But I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?=C2=A0 I think that th= e "what is it doing" is more important than "w= hat did I asked it to do".

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.


You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data
has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not.

No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" devices at all.=C2=A0 I completely appreciate that m= any of these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly.

My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true values is what is required to build robust distributed systems.

In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know what configuration the device has actually applied.


Thanks for making my point f= or me.
For many deployments there is no business case to update a= lot of code to go from 99% to 100%.
This is not a new problem, a= nd if it turns out that a config=3Dfalse oper-status leaf is needed
to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that.

There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 g= ranularity with the config nodes.
It is not really a burden to kn= ow about /foo-state/oper-status as a special-case.
IMO it is more= of a burden to compre entire data structures between intended and operatio= nal
just to find out the oper-status.

Sy= stems that need NMDA should migrate to it.
Other systems can use = the transition strategy and update as needed over time.

Andy


If the data modeler
expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state leaf is added
for the whole data structure.=C2=A0 There are so many details a client developer needs to code from
the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire project.
The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that config node in a way that can never fail.=C2=A0 You eith= er need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore.



There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second.
NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/datastores
and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined
in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems.=C2=A0 Forcing th= em to upgrade just to report these same
datastores twice is not a good idea.=C2=A0 Forcing RD into the mandatory-to-implement YANG library
(the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done.
I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice.=C2=A0 I= 'm trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the configuration.

Rob



Rob


Andy
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules.=C2=A0=

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


=C2=A0

> Andy

=C2=A0

Kent

=C2=A0



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?=C2=A0 It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:netconf:capab= ility:yang-library:1.0?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<date>&m= odule-set-id=3D<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:= 1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in a= ny way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which wou= ld contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bi= s-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bi= s
>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0= 0
>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A015
>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-= nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netco= nf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm= l/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document desc= ribes a YANG library that provides information
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Network Configur= ation Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechanisms are pro= vided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.<= br> >
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<= wbr>listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<= wbr>listinfo/netconf

______________________________= _________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

=C2=A0




_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
=20

--94eb2c071c94c4871605528fda8a-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 00:32:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D421412EA54 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 00:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gSL37nxVTveG for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 00:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA01512EA56 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 00:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPR40622; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:32:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 08:31:20 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.25]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:31:17 +0800 From: "Guopeipei (Peipei Guo)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] Query about the output of from candidate before user executed any to candidate. Thread-Index: AdLr8SFLuPxIroCESDmLyt7YWOCxWg== Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:31:16 +0000 Message-ID: <9FC7EF52C614284C896188640F8C655FCD5DFFF2@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.137.162] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0207.594CC3F0.0184, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.25, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 807f7e036ccf0d612dafa0c127023ec0 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] [netconf] Query about the output of from candidate before user executed any to candidate. X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:32:05 -0000 Hi All, I have one query about RFC6241 candidate datastore: Before user executed any to candidate, there is no changes to= candidate datastore.=20 What should be the result of from candidate. Result 1: return empty data as below. Base on the reason: user did not conf= igure candidate, so no candidate conent. Result 2: return entire configuration data which same as running datastore.= Base on the reason: candidate no change, so same as running content. Which one should be correct? RFC6241 does not mention this point clearly. Thanks. Peipei Guo From nobody Fri Jun 23 02:42:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1378312009C for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 02:42:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KvNMJpa54PSj for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 02:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9F9712741D for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 02:41:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=69194; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498210915; x=1499420515; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=STlDZVuoFURwtWH1ZZFh9NaX08tcMxUbF6QBHdRt0Cg=; b=bGXTClVQYWCMCwZLr4ErehepFi6QEhDktAV75GfRZtlrFdLKMo9qptUY ZksabB81j1l/dCh1dM4c/giF504PJ4tgspAJfxoKakDlPBXAd7NmTz7r8 9T+AKdprIQU57HhSQKGp3elU5707X6H6afAFDYu7P3+XR/HX1hao5tqv2 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A0AQDe4UxZ/xbLJq1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgyuBDzNag2yKGXOQbnOVBYIOAyEBDIUsSgKDRhgBAgEBAQEBAQF?= =?us-ascii?q?rKIUYAQEBAQIBAQEYCUsJAgULCQISBiABBgMCAicfAw4GDQYCAQEXigkIEI9in?= =?us-ascii?q?WKCJiqDK4gUAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYMng0yBYSuBbVg0hEYOgym?= =?us-ascii?q?CYQWJS4Z2gV2Ef4dGhzODPYhzgglWhHKDSyOGUIZRglSDJ4hKHziBCjAhCBsVH?= =?us-ascii?q?yqEVDkcGYFOPzaGaYI/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,377,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="653806981" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Jun 2017 09:41:52 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5N9fqLX018445; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:41:52 GMT To: Andy Bierman References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <10370bbe-ad13-75f9-45ce-c1c70673377d@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 10:41:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------93FCC2A1BB0DD18E81941034" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:42:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------93FCC2A1BB0DD18E81941034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 22/06/2017 18:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton > wrote: > > > > On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. >>> >>> > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the >>> revision-date used >>> >>> > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the >>> ietf-yang-library module itself. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be >>> sent. >>> >>> > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the >>> proper module version. >>> >>> Yes, this is why the proposal is the update >>> yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date. >>> >>> > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from >>> writing a new module >>> >>> > that augments the YANG library, if that is required >>> (which it isn't in this case). >>> >>> Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best >>> approach, since yang-library >>> >>> as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. >>> >>> >>> The module represents YANG module conformance information >>> for the server. >>> You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC >>> 7950 >>> need to be rewritten? >>> >>> > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many >>> devices that >>> >>> > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The >>> traditional datastores >>> >>> > have their own capability URIs with no need to change >>> them. We should >>> >>> > not disrupt these implementations because new >>> non-applicable functionality >>> >>> > is being added to the standards. >>> >>> I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that >>> future YANG modules >>> >>> will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the >>> operational state of their >>> >>> config true nodes would only be available via the new >>> datastore. >>> >>> Hence, even these devices will need to be >>> NMDA-compatible in order to report >>> >>> all their data. >>> >>> >>> >>> Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional >>> datastores and do not want to >>> read the operational values of config=true nodes. >> But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of >> the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. >> >> E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET >> request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't >> actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has >> asked for foo to be enabled. >> >> The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the >> intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't >> matter. But I think that the interesting question concerns >> when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a >> single value can be given back to the client then which value >> should it be? I think that the "what is it doing" is more >> important than "what did I asked it to do". >> >> So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a >> single datastore view rather than two), then having writes >> going to running and reads coming from operational may be a >> better compromise rather than returning running + config false. >> >> So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the >> NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration >> management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of >> the data in order to present a simplified view to clients. >> >> >> You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision >> wrt/ when some data >> has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. > > No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these > "simple" devices at all. I completely appreciate that many of > these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly. > > My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the > devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that > returning the true values is what is required to build robust > distributed systems. > > In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be > from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't > and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client > probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, > because the client does not know what configuration the device has > actually applied. > > > Thanks for making my point for me. My pleasure ;-) > For many deployments there is no business case to update a lot of code > to go from 99% to 100%. I agree, but the converse is also true. > This is not a new problem, and if it turns out that a config=false > oper-status leaf is needed > to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that. Perhaps this works in bespoke scenarios, but I can't see how this approach works in a generalized way: Specifically, who is adding the extra oper leaf to the model? If this is the developer of the standard model then they cannot know which devices may fail which bits of configuration. But, If it is the device vendors adding the extra config=false oper-status leaves then the models end up fragmenting, clients are forced to handle each device in a bespoke way. NMDA gives an architecture to do this in a generic way that can be applied in the same way to all devices and all models that are structured in a suitable way. > > There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 granularity > with the config nodes. I disagree. Many clients probably think that they are getting actual values when they are not, particularly given that the datastore is given the somewhat misleading name called "running"! I think that in the general case the client has more need for the actual value than the configured value. > It is not really a burden to know about /foo-state/oper-status as a > special-case. > IMO it is more of a burden to compre entire data structures between > intended and operational > just to find out the oper-status. The overhead seems the same to me if they compare against operational rather than running. Current model: Clients compare their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore). The client can determine whether the device has been given the configuration, but not whether the device is using it. NMDA model: (1) Client compares their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore) and operational. The client can determine both whether the device has been given the config and also whether the config has been applied. (2) Or, client only compares their desired state against operational. The client cannot know whether the device has got their intended configuration, but they can determine that the operational behaviour matches their intent. > > Systems that need NMDA should migrate to it. > Other systems can use the transition strategy and update as needed > over time. This point at least we agree on ;-) Thanks, Rob > > Andy > > >> If the data modeler >> expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 >> oper-state leaf is added >> for the whole data structure. There are so many details a client >> developer needs to code from >> the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the >> entire project. > The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether > all devices that implement that model will always be able to > implement that config node in a way that can never fail. You > either need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an > operational state datastore. > > >> >> There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still >> converge in less than a second. >> NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in >> /netconf-state/datastores >> and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. >> The NETCONF datastore model defined >> in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems. Forcing them to upgrade >> just to report these same >> datastores twice is not a good idea. Forcing RD into the >> mandatory-to-implement YANG library >> (the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not >> help force this extra work to get done. > I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice. I'm > trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are > being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of > resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause > the system to fail to apply the configuration. > > Rob > >> >> >> Rob >> >> >> Andy >> >>> Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang >>> modules as needed for new style modules. >>> >>> There is no business case for rewriting clients to use >>> get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state). >>> >>> It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff >>> like RD and schema-mount will >>> cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a >>> 1-size-fits-all that >>> nobody is happy with. >>> >>> >>> > Andy >>> >>> Kent >>> >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was >>> a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it >>> prohibits >>> any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> >>> Kent Watsen writes: >>> > >>> > >>> >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search >>> for a solution >>> >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by >>> using another >>> >module). >>> > >>> >But alas, it seems that we're limited by >>> rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >>> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >>> > >>> > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >>> > revision=&module-set-id= >>> > >>> >and we very much want NC clients to be able to >>> determine that >>> >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet >>> they would >>> >not (could not) support yang-library in its current >>> form. >>> > >>> >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet >>> another variation >>> >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of >>> yang-library:1.0) that >>> >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in >>> any way >>> >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing >>> a new >>> >top-level container called "yang library", which >>> would contain >>> >an organization that incorporates modules, >>> module-sets, and >>> >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >>> > >>> >Thoughts? >>> > >>> >Kent >>> > >>> > >>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>> > >>> >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update >>> YANG Library to >>> >support the revised-datastores draft. >>> > >>> >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll >>> to adopt this >>> >draft as a WG item? >>> > >>> >Thanks, >>> >Kent >>> > >>> > >>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>> > >>> >A new version of I-D, >>> draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >>> >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and >>> posted to the >>> >IETF repository. >>> > >>> >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >>> >Revision: 00 >>> >Title: YANG Module Library >>> >Document date: 2017-05-30 >>> >Group: Individual Submission >>> >Pages: 15 >>> >URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>> . >>> >txt >>> >Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >>> >>> >Htmlized: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>> >>> >Htmlized: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >Abstract: >>> > This document describes a YANG library that >>> provides information >>> > about all the YANG modules used by a network >>> management server (e.g., >>> > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) >>> server). Simple caching >>> > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to >>> minimize retrieval of >>> > this information. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes >>> from the time of submission >>> >until the htmlized version and diff are available >>> at tools.ietf.org . >>> > >>> >The IETF Secretariat >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Netconf mailing list >>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Netconf mailing list >>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >> --------------93FCC2A1BB0DD18E81941034 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On 22/06/2017 18:31, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 

 

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

> 

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

 

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

 

 

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in this case).

 

Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

 


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
 

 

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.  We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

 

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

 



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=true nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.  But I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?  I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than "what did I asked it to do".

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.


You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data
has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not.

No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" devices at all.  I completely appreciate that many of these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly.

My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true values is what is required to build robust distributed systems.

In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know what configuration the device has actually applied.


Thanks for making my point for me.
My pleasure ;-)


For many deployments there is no business case to update a lot of code to go from 99% to 100%.
I agree, but the converse is also true.


This is not a new problem, and if it turns out that a config=false oper-status leaf is needed
to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that.

Perhaps this works in bespoke scenarios, but I can't see how this approach works in a generalized way: Specifically, who is adding the extra oper leaf to the model?

If this is the developer of the standard model then they cannot know which devices may fail which bits of configuration.

But, If it is the device vendors adding the extra config=false oper-status leaves then the models end up fragmenting, clients are forced to handle each device in a bespoke way.

NMDA gives an architecture to do this in a generic way that can be applied in the same way to all devices and all models that are structured in a suitable way.



There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 granularity with the config nodes.
I disagree.  Many clients probably think that they are getting actual values when they are not, particularly given that the datastore is given the somewhat misleading name called "running"!  I think that in the general case the client has more need for the actual value than the configured value.

It is not really a burden to know about /foo-state/oper-status as a special-case.
IMO it is more of a burden to compre entire data structures between intended and operational
just to find out the oper-status.
The overhead seems the same to me if they compare against operational rather than running.

Current model:
Clients compare their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore).  The client can determine whether the device has been given the configuration, but not whether the device is using it.

NMDA model:
(1) Client compares their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore) and operational.  The client can determine both whether the device has been given the config and also whether the config has been applied.

(2) Or, client only compares their desired state against operational.  The client cannot know whether the device has got their intended configuration, but they can determine that the operational behaviour matches their intent.



Systems that need NMDA should migrate to it.
Other systems can use the transition strategy and update as needed over time.
This point at least we agree on ;-)

Thanks,
Rob



Andy


If the data modeler
expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state leaf is added
for the whole data structure.  There are so many details a client developer needs to code from
the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire project.
The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that config node in a way that can never fail.  You either need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore.



There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second.
NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/datastores
and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined
in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems.  Forcing them to upgrade just to report these same
datastores twice is not a good idea.  Forcing RD into the mandatory-to-implement YANG library
(the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done.
I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice.  I'm trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the configuration.

Rob



Rob


Andy
 
  Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules. 

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


 

> Andy

 

Kent

 



Andy
 

 

 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?  It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0".

Thanks,
 Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,
>where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>     urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0?
>       revision=<date>&module-set-id=<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form.
>
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library", which would contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Name:          draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis
>Revision:      00
>Title:         YANG Module Library
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:         Individual Submission
>Pages:         15
>URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>   This document describes a YANG library that provides information
>   about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
>   a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).  Simple caching
>   mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
>   this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

 




_______________________________________________
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--------------93FCC2A1BB0DD18E81941034-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 07:04:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACCF1287A0 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eS_SvWIZ8bik for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94E2B12EAF4 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id h134so33366781iof.2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BsuypQx8fAbYVyCZwkvqkTGTwObYoUk3MqstWMd6rbs=; b=SMD0bIWh2Yt8h/aQTp4MLcGRfEillck82J6e69In4KU4lsFIbskc0MH2R7P4sEpTli Z3vscEvU0cXU1/I8IAL6Z0minOb5v+Yxq76Icdqo68uBPpcVUuA6NdCTMoGOj8NK81Gh yZCZfW7NnqIailKSm4VmMN++uTml0L7I52OKq3W0sAc/FEV10u4kBscJQSEI4o3Tqc/W jnf+2bzwQbAiI9epdjIqHN86FC1aBzePbdQu7+r2HyIDracDl1edUL9dbz3IsZtxBE7A /rkRU62/uBAJuc1AuyvBb8Y2rZy35UoNLxTGgkWofAQbLxyUPXaJ83M4upTt77fZwz77 hkMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BsuypQx8fAbYVyCZwkvqkTGTwObYoUk3MqstWMd6rbs=; b=rMF8Uy5TPbfLOjAH4/rnGpdYTeOst0jTM+uF+TkKrjedlDDM2ThIMJ7fTLNaKVeLcD n1BedVOCfdAZOqyCdnmfo/X0YCWfTROBRyVZvaku1mbcLAIVsU3e4m/riRKH+3IzMghg GejfcV51ttNHdNGGKvIzx0sWBz2PSQIYmZupUS0MG2ARSOKvRahh1lHgxsMJe8kvVb4t oK2QXoRtyEGmcahlq5ZMc+J7fGIQ7s8miYpA54uSOs/lspG/Gsu78V78PCdKbox5s1pS mneLQucwWXYaKM6FiAX5omHRGtB3bW09XmTQM2URTbVELQgjdeilWlj6O2u2Gtcnoeew Ml+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOz4s/msNVRnmliu6HPKjRCFMJ9bnc39WgCRUaBpR1DdqJt34V3L 9WB9bItRj8Qgo6JrTdin7InyWAcleCF2 X-Received: by 10.107.175.201 with SMTP id p70mr4686234ioo.20.1498226649805; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.9.9 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9FC7EF52C614284C896188640F8C655FCD5DFFF2@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <9FC7EF52C614284C896188640F8C655FCD5DFFF2@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Vinod Kumar Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:34:09 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Guopeipei (Peipei Guo)" Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144a3144141880552a11308" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [netconf] Query about the output of from candidate before user executed any to candidate. X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:04:13 -0000 --001a1144a3144141880552a11308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Guo PeiPei, As per the description of "Configuration Datastores" in section 5.1, it states as follows *"A configuration datastore is defined as the complete set of configuration data that is required to get a device from its initial default state into a desired operational state." * * //Since candidate is also a configuration store, it must have a complete set of configuration, In this case, it must be the running configuration. * Section 8.3.1 has the following description * "The candidate configuration is a full configuration data set that serves as a work place for creating and manipulating configuration data. Additions, deletions, and changes can be made to this data to construct the desired configuration data. A operation MAY be performed at any time that causes the device's running configuration to be set to the value of the candidate configuration."* * "The operation effectively sets the running configuration to the current contents of the candidate configuration. While it could be modeled as a simple copy, it is done as a distinct operation for a number of reasons"* * "The client can discard any uncommitted changes to the candidate **configuration by executing the operation. This **operation reverts the contents of the candidate configuration to the* * contents of the running configuration."* As per this, when no changes are done in candidate it needs to be same as running. In my opinion, we need to have candidate store contents same as running store, unless any change is done in candidate store. Once any change is done in the candidate, all the manipulations needs to be maintained in candidate store. So, In my interpretation, we need to return Result 2. Thanks and Regards, Vinod Kumar S. On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Guopeipei (Peipei Guo) < guopeipei@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi All, > > I have one query about RFC6241 candidate datastore: > Before user executed any to candidate, there is no changes > to candidate datastore. > What should be the result of from candidate. > > > > > > > > > Result 1: return empty data as below. Base on the reason: user did not > configure candidate, so no candidate conent. > > > > > > Result 2: return entire configuration data which same as running > datastore. Base on the reason: candidate no change, so same as running > content. > > > > > > > Which one should be correct? RFC6241 does not mention this point clearly. > > Thanks. > Peipei Guo > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1144a3144141880552a11308 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Guo PeiPei,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As per the description of= "Configuration Datastores" in section 5.1, it states as follows<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "A configuration datastore is defined as the compl= ete set of configuration data that is required to get a device from its ini= tial default state into a desired operational state."=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0//Since candidate is also a configuration= store, it must have a complete set of configuration, In this case, it must= be the running configuration.=C2=A0


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 8.3.1 has the following descripti= on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The candidate c= onfiguration is a full configuration data set that serves as a work place f= or creating and manipulating configuration data.=C2=A0 Additions, deletions= , and changes can be made to this data to construct the desired configurati= on data.=C2=A0 A <commit> operation MAY be performed at any time that= causes the device's running configuration to be set to the value of th= e candidate configuration."

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"The <commit> operation= effectively sets the running configuration to=C2=A0the current contents of= the candidate configuration.=C2=A0 While it could=C2=A0be modeled as a sim= ple copy, it is done as a distinct operation for a=C2=A0number of reasons&q= uot;

=C2=A0 = =C2=A0"The client can discard any uncommitted changes to the candidate= =C2=A0configuration by executing the = <discard-changes> operation.=C2=A0 This=C2=A0operation reverts= the contents of the candidate configuration to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contents of the running configuration= ."
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As per this, when no changes are = done in candidate it needs to be same as running.

= =C2=A0 In my opinion, we need to have candidate store contents same as runn= ing store, unless any change is done in candidate store. Once any change is= done in the candidate, all the manipulations needs to be maintained in can= didate store.

=C2=A0 So, In my interpretation, we = need to return Result 2.

Thanks and Regards,
=
Vinod Kumar S.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Guopeipei (Peipei Guo) <= guopeipei@huawei.com> wrote:
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a1144a3144141880552a11308-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 09:37:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65134120726 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fGgXDuwIVwzB for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDFC91200B9 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id k67so72449299wrc.2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0IWc41ct9KZqi189ks7+c7asda6D7jTqlTKMcC3ra9Q=; b=mPOWn4IMyQvpH8l3VcTkNm7qgvJO5umEyTzgWsjyi0NS2loSdhIF08Fir3S3KBdxky g+20kN+YlvFti/ZdntRCar8uzBswNiQuA6Fk7fybrPfLIK2t+bUCbdKBJciUuTwUZLcd gxa7rBOOGoUCY/ZodHZnr39nX3N1/Pc7S/RTZO4Vy99OhqtduPRxwEhxp2CRFL4+ALmn LCzfsyXil7FI6BkPP7Nl6VYRhgI3dXzCZwIJd30s1Nyhx+XE+SVWbiEW1XrWsH87PS6g Th7qq+p46savIYcrY0yzEMqPhJguFC8XT5/LIHreO0Z7HQArb5S+ixGqk/3PE+Oa38FL 3fUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0IWc41ct9KZqi189ks7+c7asda6D7jTqlTKMcC3ra9Q=; b=IDopziA/CiG+Rc43phYDIMVb+bR5fUNaKs+vj1saX+omJE4/fuiakJhUmxxhViBOVH PjImCkMQmiIJtoocsC/6/5FbR+lYfaQ0ZxBjn0kUXfbGMUG9S52WqCGJwpkCruQqInRi AV7Y63V6uc8ye80WOn731aFOsVfhkXjUHsHXqAM6BOKIWmVfsemL1VlnZKE06zYuxsFN 4SOKm+l+kIyUAbDT3BEMr0b41PW3vxH/nvHa4nbzWaAEMzDURxwH+xnSBIc8DafkcBin SnnjCsJ0ABbGo4a8o74LeG79QM/Vu8+Y3ugGHTbbhIyF3zC9GYojM3xH7U8MvVUk6yGi IHJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzohSsjpPDD4JWtUAX1AdhRMoQB0BglS1bcLElEPpBUJqg8En0o AxYdbNaA3JmrRDoLpCdwz1I53Bn6MMCn X-Received: by 10.223.134.117 with SMTP id 50mr6659063wrw.62.1498235830251; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <10370bbe-ad13-75f9-45ce-c1c70673377d@cisco.com> References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <8823d876-0560-bb46-9d49-33c5e073ecf9@cisco.com> <10370bbe-ad13-75f9-45ce-c1c70673377d@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:37:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Robert Wilton Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146bd9273de970552a33640" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:37:17 -0000 --001a1146bd9273de970552a33640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 22/06/2017 18:31, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > >> >> >> On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI. >>>> >>>> > The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used >>>> >>>> > so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library >>>> module itself. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent. >>>> >>>> > A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module >>>> version. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new >>>> revision date. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new >>>> module >>>> >>>> > that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't >>>> in this case). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since >>>> yang-library >>>> >>>> as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. >>> You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 >>> need to be rewritten? >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that >>>> >>>> > will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional >>>> datastores >>>> >>>> > have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should >>>> >>>> > not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable >>>> functionality >>>> >>>> > is being added to the standards. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules >>>> >>>> will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state >>>> of their >>>> >>>> config true nodes would only be available via the new >>>> datastore. >>>> >>>> Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to >>>> report >>>> >>>> all their data. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do >>> not want to >>> read the operational values of config=true nodes. >>> >>> But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that >>> is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today. >>> >>> E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, >>> they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at >>> all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled. >>> >>> The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and >>> applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter. But I think that the >>> interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: >>> if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value >>> should it be? I think that the "what is it doing" is more important than >>> "what did I asked it to do". >>> >>> So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single >>> datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and >>> reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than >>> returning running + config false. >>> >>> So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA >>> architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if >>> the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a >>> simplified view to clients. >>> >>> >> You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when >> some data >> has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not. >> >> >> No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these >> "simple" devices at all. I completely appreciate that many of these >> devices normally apply their configuration very quickly. >> >> My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices >> returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true >> values is what is required to build robust distributed systems. >> >> In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from >> the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these >> scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of >> knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know >> what configuration the device has actually applied. >> >> > Thanks for making my point for me. > > My pleasure ;-) > > > For many deployments there is no business case to update a lot of code to > go from 99% to 100%. > > I agree, but the converse is also true. > > > This is not a new problem, and if it turns out that a config=false > oper-status leaf is needed > to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that. > > > Perhaps this works in bespoke scenarios, but I can't see how this approach > works in a generalized way: Specifically, who is adding the extra oper leaf > to the model? > > If this is the developer of the standard model then they cannot know which > devices may fail which bits of configuration. > > But, If it is the device vendors adding the extra config=false oper-status > leaves then the models end up fragmenting, clients are forced to handle > each device in a bespoke way. > > NMDA gives an architecture to do this in a generic way that can be applied > in the same way to all devices and all models that are structured in a > suitable way. > > > > There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 granularity with > the config nodes. > > I disagree. Many clients probably think that they are getting actual > values when they are not, particularly given that the datastore is given > the somewhat misleading name called "running"! I think that in the general > case the client has more need for the actual value than the configured > value. > > It is not really a burden to know about /foo-state/oper-status as a > special-case. > IMO it is more of a burden to compre entire data structures between > intended and operational > just to find out the oper-status. > > The overhead seems the same to me if they compare against operational > rather than running. > > Current model: > Clients compare their desired state against the devices intended config > (running datastore). The client can determine whether the device has been > given the configuration, but not whether the device is using it. > > NMDA model: > (1) Client compares their desired state against the devices intended > config (running datastore) and operational. The client can determine both > whether the device has been given the config and also whether the config > has been applied. > > (2) Or, client only compares their desired state against operational. The > client cannot know whether the device has got their intended configuration, > but they can determine that the operational behaviour matches their intent. > > I have favored an RPC-based approach from the start. e.g. For writable-running: ... // regular params 60 send-diff For candidate: ... // regular params 60 send-diff Client sends an edit or commit with options to wait until the edit is applied before sending a response. Wait 60 seconds to timeout and then send back a diff highlighting the values that are not applied yet (may be entire edit) Other timeout actions could be ignore, rollback. IMO this is much easier for the client to use than a 1:1 mapping between config and state. There are so many exceptions where the state data model is not exactly the same as the config data model. > > > Systems that need NMDA should migrate to it. > Other systems can use the transition strategy and update as needed over > time. > > This point at least we agree on ;-) > > Thanks, > Rob > > > Andy > > Andy > > > If the data modeler >> expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state >> leaf is added >> for the whole data structure. There are so many details a client >> developer needs to code from >> the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire >> project. >> >> The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all >> devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that >> config node in a way that can never fail. You either need a duplication of >> all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore. >> >> >> >> There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge >> in less than a second. >> NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in >> /netconf-state/datastores >> and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The >> NETCONF datastore model defined >> in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems. Forcing them to upgrade just >> to report these same >> datastores twice is not a good idea. Forcing RD into the >> mandatory-to-implement YANG library >> (the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force >> this extra work to get done. >> >> I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice. I'm trying >> to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, >> e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs >> in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the >> configuration. >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> Rob >>> >>> >> Andy >> >> >>> Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang >>> modules as needed for new style modules. >>> >>> There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, >>> operational) instead of get(/foo-state). >>> >>> It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and >>> schema-mount will >>> cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all >>> that >>> nobody is happy with. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> > Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kent >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: >>>> >>>> Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was >>>> a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits >>>> any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kent Watsen writes: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution >>>> >that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another >>>> >module). >>>> > >>>> >But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4, >>>> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise: >>>> > >>>> > urn:ietf:params:netconf:capability:yang-library:1.0? >>>> > revision=&module-set-id= >>>> > >>>> >and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that >>>> >the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would >>>> >not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >>>> > >>>> >Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation >>>> >of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that >>>> >does NOT alter the existing "modules-state" tree in any way >>>> >(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new >>>> >top-level container called "yang library", which would contain >>>> >an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and >>>> >datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too). >>>> > >>>> >Thoughts? >>>> > >>>> >Kent >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>>> > >>>> >A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to >>>> >support the revised-datastores draft. >>>> > >>>> >Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this >>>> >draft as a WG item? >>>> > >>>> >Thanks, >>>> >Kent >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE----- >>>> > >>>> >A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt >>>> >has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the >>>> >IETF repository. >>>> > >>>> >Name: draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis >>>> >Revision: 00 >>>> >Title: YANG Module Library >>>> >Document date: 2017-05-30 >>>> >Group: Individual Submission >>>> >Pages: 15 >>>> >URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet- >>>> drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00. >>>> >txt >>>> >Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >>>> doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ >>>> >Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/d >>>> raft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>>> >Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ >>>> doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >Abstract: >>>> > This document describes a YANG library that provides information >>>> > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server >>>> (e.g., >>>> > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching >>>> > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of >>>> > this information. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> > >>>> >The IETF Secretariat >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >Netconf mailing list >>>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>> >Netconf mailing list >>>> >Netconf@ietf.org >>>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netconf mailing list >>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing listNetconf@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> >>> --001a1146bd9273de970552a33640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:41 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com&= gt; wrote:
=20 =20 =20



On 22/06/201= 7 18:31, Andy Bierman wrote:
=20


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:



On 22/06/2017 17:32, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com><= /span> wrote:



On 21/06/2017 22:19, Andy Bierman wrote:


On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kent Watsen <kw= atsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO -- no. You do not understand this capability URI.

> The purpose of this capability is to advertise the revision-date used

> so there is no chicken-and-egg problem wrt/ to the ietf-yang-library module itself.

>= =C2=A0

> The text does not say a specific revision date MUST be sent.

> A client MUST read the revision-date and find the proper module version.

=C2=A0=

Yes, this is why the proposal is the update yang-library:1.0 with a new revision date.

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module

> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn'= t in this case).

=C2=A0=

Perhap= s, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since yang-library

as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers.

=C2=A0=


The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server.
You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950
need to be rewritten?
=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that

> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional datastores

> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them.=C2=A0 = We should

> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable functionality

> is being added to the standards.

=C2=A0=

I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules

will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it = means that the operational state of their

config true nodes would only be available via the new <operational> datastore.

Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to report

all their data.

=C2=A0=



Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do not want to
read the operational values of config=3Dtrue nodes.
But that may due to confusion about the precise meaning of the data that is being returned by the NETCONF RPCs today.

E.g. when the device returns that foo is enabled in the GET request, they think that foo is enabled ... when it doesn't actually mean that at all, it only means that the client has asked for foo to be enabled.

The argument has been that for all intents and purposes the intended and applied value is the same, so it doesn't matter.=C2=A0 Bu= t I think that the interesting question concerns when the intended and applied values diverge: if only a single value can be given back to the client then which value should it be?=C2=A0 I think that the "what is it = doing" is more important than "what did I asked i= t to do".

So, if you want to keep clients simple (e.g. by only having a single datastore view rather than two), then having writes going to running and reads coming from operational may be a better compromise rather than returning running + config false.

So, in a long winded way, I am saying that I think that the NMDA architecture applies to all distributed configuration management, even if the devices choose not to expose all of the data in order to present a simplified view to clients.


You seem to be making an assumption that the lack of precision wrt/ when some data
has changed value is required for these "simple" devices. It is not.

No, this is not the reason why I think that NMDA applies to these "simple" devices at all.=C2=A0 I complet= ely appreciate that many of these devices normally apply their configuration very quickly.

My argument for the applicability of NMDA is just about the devices returning the actual true values, because I believe that returning the true values is what is required to build robust distributed systems.

In 99% of cases, you can infer what the true value is likely to be from the intended value, but in the other 1% of cases you can't and in these scenarios the system likely fails, and the client probably has no way of knowing exactly what has actually failed, because the client does not know what configuration the device has actually applied.


Thanks for making my point for me.
My pleasure ;-)


For many deployments there is no business case to update a lot of code to go from 99% to 100%.
I agree, but the converse is also true.


This is not a new problem, and if it turns out that a config=3Dfalse oper-status leaf is needed
to supply the actual value, then the developer justs adds that.

Perhaps this works in bespoke scenarios, but I can't see how this approach works in a generalized way: Specifically, who is adding the extra oper leaf to the model?

If this is the developer of the standard model then they cannot know which devices may fail which bits of configuration.

But, If it is the device vendors adding the extra config=3Dfalse oper-status leaves then the models end up fragmenting, clients are forced to handle each device in a bespoke way.

NMDA gives an architecture to do this in a generic way that can be applied in the same way to all devices and all models that are structured in a suitable way.



There is no real need to have the actual values at a 1:1 granularity with the config nodes.
I disagree.=C2=A0 Many clients probably think that they are getting actual values when they are not, particularly given that the datastore is given the somewhat misleading name called "running&qu= ot;!=C2=A0 I think that in the general case the client has more need for the actual value than the configured value.

It is not really a burden to know about /foo-state/oper-status as a special-case.
IMO it is more of a burden to compre entire data structures between intended and operational
just to find out the oper-status.
The overhead seems the same to me if they compare against operational rather than running.

Current model:
Clients compare their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore).=C2=A0 The client can determine whether the device has been given the configuration, but not whether the device is using it.

NMDA model:
(1) Client compares their desired state against the devices intended config (running datastore) and operational.=C2=A0 The client can determine both whether the device has been given the config and also whether the config has been applied.

(2) Or, client only compares their desired state against operational.=C2=A0 The client cannot know whether the device has got their intended configuration, but they can determine that the operational behaviour matches their intent.


I have favored an RPC-based = approach from the start.
e.g.

For writab= le-running:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0<rpc>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <edit-config>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ... =C2=A0// regular params
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<wait-for-apply />
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<wait-timeout>60</wait-timeout>
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<timeout-action>send-diff<= ;/timeout-action>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </edit-config>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>

For candidate:<= /div>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0<rpc>
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 <commit>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 ... =C2=A0// regular params
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0<wait-for-apply />
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0<wait-timeout>60</wait-timeout>
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<timeout-action>send-diff</timeo= ut-action>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </commit>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 </rpc>

Client sends an edit= or commit with options to wait until the edit is applied before
= sending a response. Wait 60 seconds to timeout and then send back
a diff highlighting the values that are not applied yet (may be entire edi= t)

Other timeout actions could be ignore, rollback= .

IMO this is much easier for the client to use th= an a 1:1 mapping between
config and state.=C2=A0 There are so man= y exceptions where the state data model
is not exactly the same a= s the config data model.

=C2=A0


Systems that need NMDA should migrate to it.
Other systems can use the transition strategy and update as needed over time.
This point at least we agree on ;-)=C2=A0

Thanks,
Rob



Andy
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

Andy


If the data modeler
expects there is state data that needs to be exposed, then 1 oper-state leaf is added
for the whole data structure.=C2=A0 There are = so many details a client developer needs to code from
the model, that this oper-state leaf is a tiny increment in the entire project.
The data modeller cannot know for a given config true node whether all devices that implement that model will always be able to implement that config node in a way that can never fail.=C2=A0 You either need a duplication of all the config nodes, or an operational state datastore.


There are many systems that are distributed, and yet can still converge in less than a second.
NETCONF already requires servers to report their datastores in /netconf-state/datastores
and also advertise the proper capabilities like candidate, etc. The NETCONF datastore model defined
in RFC 6241 works fine for these systems.=C2= =A0 Forcing them to upgrade just to report these same
datastores twice is not a good idea.=C2=A0 Forcing RD into the mandatory-to-implement YANG library
(the only reason YANG library was picked apparently) will not help force this extra work to get done.
I'm not trying to force them to report the same data twice.=C2=A0 I'm trying to encourage them to report the actual true values that are being used, e.g. because there are hardware issues, or out of resource issues, or bugs in the system that will sometimes cause the system to fail to apply the configuration.

Rob



Rob


Andy
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Vendors can deploy the fake foo-state.yang
modules as needed for new style modules.=C2=A0

There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, operational) instead of get(/foo-state).

It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will
cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all that
nobody is happy with.


=C2=A0=

> Andy

=C2=A0=

Kent

=C2=A0=



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Ca= n we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4?=C2=A0 It was
a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits
any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0&= quot;.

Thanks,
=C2=A0Phil



Kent Watsen writes:
>
>
>This thread has caused the NMDA-authors to search for a solution
>that does not entail modifying RFC 7895 (e.g., by using another
>module).
>
>But alas, it seems that we're limited by rfc7950#section-5.6.4,<= br> >where it states that NETCONF servers MUST advertise:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0urn:ietf:params:n= etconf:capability:yang-library:1.0?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0revision=3D<da= te>&module-set-id=3D<id>
>
>and we very much want NC clients to be able to determine that
>the server supports NMDA via a capability, and yet they would
>not (could not) support yang-library in its current form. >
>Thus, the current plan it to put forward yet another variation
>of 7895bis (i.e., a new 'revision' of yang-library:1.0) that
>does NOT alter the existing "modules-state&quo= t; tree in any way
>(so as to not break legacy clients) by introducing a new
>top-level container called "yang library"= ;, which would contain
>an organization that incorporates modules, module-sets, and
>datastores (and, perhaps, schema-mounts too).
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A proposed rfc7895bis has been posted, to update YANG Library to
>support the revised-datastores draft.
>
>Would the chairs kindly consider initiating a poll to adopt this
>draft as a WG item?
>
>Thanks,
>Kent
>
>
>-----ORIGINAL MESSAGE-----
>
>A new version of I-D, draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rf= c7895bis-00.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Kent Watsen and posted to the
>IETF repository. >
>Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rf= c7895bis
>Revision:=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 00
>Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG Module Libra= ry
>Document date: 2017-05-30
>Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission
>Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A015
>URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/= internet-drafts/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.
>txt
>Status:=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/<= wbr>doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-n= mdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/<= wbr>doc/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00
>
>
>Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This d= ocument describes a YANG library that provides information >=C2=A0 =C2=A0about = all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g.,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0a Netw= ork Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server).=C2=A0 Simple caching
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0mechan= isms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0this information.
>
>
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Netconf mailing list
>Netconf@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netconf

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/netconf

=C2=A0= 




___________________________________=
____________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netc=
onf
=20

--001a1146bd9273de970552a33640-- From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:11:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C4B129B48; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: bclaise@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149826282828.7840.10641269205218326433.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:07:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:07:10 -0000 Dear Mahesh Jethanandani, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netconf Session 1 (2:00:00) Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Congress Hall III size: 250 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 150 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime supa Second Priority: nmrg i2rs i2nsf nfvrg Third Priority: anima sacm v6ops core 6tisch 6lo People who must be present: Mehmet Ersue Benoit Claise Mahesh Jethanandani Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please schedule the NETCONF session on Tue, Wed or Thu. Friday is NOT possible. (netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime supa are a conflict for the OPS AD Benoit Claise) Thanks. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Jun 25 23:59:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E411242EA; Sun, 25 Jun 2017 23:59:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149846037638.31829.1168522334984195177@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 23:59:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 06:59:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : Subscribing to YANG datastore push updates Authors : Alexander Clemm Eric Voit Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Ambika Prasad Tripathy Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Andy Bierman Balazs Lengyel Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2017-06-25 Abstract: Providing rapid visibility into changes made on YANG configuration and operational objects enables new capabilities such as remote mirroring of configuration and operational state. Via the mechanism described in this document, subscriber applications may request a continuous, customized stream of updates from a YANG datastore. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jun 26 00:08:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C491292F5 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rYWFqFFhmuxK for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AD01126C89 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LAPTOPR7T053C2 ([73.71.191.170]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8gZ3-1ddKAl3mwV-00wAjg; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:08:01 +0200 From: "Alexander Clemm" To: Cc: "'Eric Voit \(evoit\)'" , "'Alberto Gonzalez'" , "'Einar Nilsen-Nygaard \(einarnn\)'" , "'Ambika Prasad Tripathy \(ambtripa\)'" , "'Andy Bierman'" , "'Balazs Lengyel'" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 00:08:00 -0700 Message-ID: <07c801d2ee4a$f3b483d0$db1d8b70$@clemm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07C9_01D2EE10.47564810" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdLuSfVcEcMRkyDqS0iOllLeK5N9GQ== Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:QZeVuyJ8EE5vpj8mbR5qUTPIEq5klZvVuN6GMhUsB8IORQZQ7tK OK/73HQ3MuIITQT5wSLzjDoEFiJtkABNSpJ7mQKRTvNJ5JIledrEFOHtd0OU1IDsBHUFWme je3ASIRpQMPolJumL7Y+f+bMMWYop1GOC1ZVWd2IDvwcYAdvU9gugrPT4qA8a21uIL4O666 zXTuwEdLKTp0pTpdMkd6g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:yI3M6GwiZMU=:SHycmC5jnkqC7zk3yd9i8J 09mV0ZTVPorf0o+1WxnL1uaz9BVBnOGy+iV83s2Se8e979gfhbASItc421ZenWFGNscG4C9ek x5g9iOq2DKs0LiiwC+etvMpnXdiIBdud9g0A4s3VA/uJAPpKVM5QdI8pKOOAJxXjN2hM93wTC QU/foiWQWqB72Xlo6Mjecu1co8WPQrUgvgtDPPXXhTETheFn0oUf9UemB2bqZzQQphU21h9rh nP5FEjaDWC1YFq1OhIwAqTAVNnNkPuaRE/vGzui0dPHUOprEFmOqVpGcK0lE5Ly+WiNX6T1gA +gzFxozXrOTPl6TNF23iK+PXCsoYLe4YpY73OMekOF52GUORoKy1dPJiHS0JvZ31fqw7TASj1 gQNX9c1hVxVm8MEYf86ibh91aTzcc02lYjt8ZOitMHEwyt9BPQqpY7EFbBmEfxKvabJFWMfSU Gp7l72IeUGA4NdFtf6oMwgcXkWECyMNqHoFASdi+oFIMCvMYe4mfrIKz6vj7bV89/eLOwjAeL Q05v0U19rpUgAu3d7QCqjtcendYIA7Ap8zog/WIZn2bHwfkQjJZu2pzB8jUbbQv8ejFtjKTGv oCp2Z/OVxEyzIMatUtvulGVigKSjSlK3KAAvGwR73D/a/UqCJGcSOez3sGBR402KzGq6+hDTX NhPx39uhzEphI/vLFCE14yER4XsYuWFKsxLptlhw6bKcHh45OwKbx5bleODhCmDmLzNmsxZZ4 D0cp0y+A2j+TTTIY Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] New revision of YANG-Push (-07) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:08:09 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07C9_01D2EE10.47564810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Netconf WG, We have just posted a new revision of the YANG-Push draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07) The draft contains mostly a number of editorial clarifications. This includes resolutions for some of the items discussed earlier on the list, such as clarifications regarding filters. Support for value filters, while possible as a future extension, is not included; filters act as node selectors only. The resulting model is very straightforward and simplifies the notification of change updates, simplifies implementation, and reduces the number of race conditions associated with object values falling in and out of filter range, etc. The YANG-Push model itself remains unchanged. Kind regards --- Alex (on behalf of the coauthors - Eric, Alberto, Ambika, Einar, Andy, Balazs) ------=_NextPart_000_07C9_01D2EE10.47564810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Netconf WG,

 

We have just = posted a new revision of the YANG-Push draft (http= s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-07) =

 

The draft contains mostly a number of editorial = clarifications.  This includes resolutions for some of the items = discussed earlier on the list, such as clarifications regarding filters. =  Support for value filters, while possible as a future extension, = is not included; filters act as node selectors only.  The resulting = model is very straightforward and simplifies the notification of change = updates, simplifies implementation, and reduces the number of race = conditions associated with object values falling in and out of filter = range, etc.  The YANG-Push model itself remains unchanged.  =

 

Kind regards

--- = Alex

(on behalf of the coauthors = – Eric, Alberto, Ambika, Einar, Andy, Balazs)

 

 

 

 

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MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_342590BCE87F4C428F0045BD8BCEA526junipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jun 2017 16:35:08.1369 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1505 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:35:12 -0000 --_000_342590BCE87F4C428F0045BD8BCEA526junipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vJiJlufM95vN for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 067871292FD for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id w126so3673066wme.0 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4Bs70Ts0DFJHDH+wiyaGBtSIIGPtJpjISqMLMIRx0bw=; 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AKS2vOwhIwYD7zGxQ5MKHdQ/1SB6Ie665PyI5xvp86cD69VhhXEvuHX6 t/qhbn9KHoMQysMuzJcxq+yOmnPnIzP6 X-Received: by 10.28.30.3 with SMTP id e3mr431461wme.60.1498497820321; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <342590BC-E87F-4C42-8F00-45BD8BCEA526@juniper.net> References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> <342590BC-E87F-4C42-8F00-45BD8BCEA526@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Phil Shafer , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b35084708010552e036c1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:23:45 -0000 --001a114b35084708010552e036c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > >>> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventing you from writing a new module > > >>> that augments the YANG library, if that is required (which it isn't in > this case). > > > > >>Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be the best approach, since > yang-library > > >>as it stands appears to not be suitable for NMDA servers. > > > > > The module represents YANG module conformance information for the server. > > > You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as defined in RFC 7950 > > > need to be rewritten? > > > > To some extent, yes. The main thing it that currently features and > deviations > > are expressed at a global-level, whereas we believe that servers may need > to > > be able to express these on a per-datastore basis. For instance, a > feature is > > supported in , but not in a dynamic datastore, or a module is > > supported in , but a deviation is needed in . > > > Datastore specific YANG sounds like a bad idea. Can you elaborate on real use-cases? I can see how YANG extensions might be added for controlling behavior on new datastores, but not something like if-feature that only applies to a subset of datastores. > > > > >>> The RD work provides no advantages whatsoever for many devices that > > >>> will not have I2RS or slow config convergence. The traditional > datastores > > >>> have their own capability URIs with no need to change them. We should > > >>> not disrupt these implementations because new non-applicable > functionality > > >>> is being added to the standards. > > >>I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, given that future YANG modules > > >>will reflect the NMDA "guidelines", it means that the operational state > of their > > >>config true nodes would only be available via the new > datastore. > > >>Hence, even these devices will need to be NMDA-compatible in order to > report > > >>all their data. > > >Many people are OK with the limitations of traditional datastores and do > not want > > > to read the operational values of config=true nodes. Vendors can deploy > the fake > > > foo-state.yang modules as needed for new style modules. > > > > The -state trees are recommended to support a transition period. > Currently there is > > no statement for how now the transition period may last. Let the market > decide, > > right? At some point a decision will need to be made to either stop > publishing > > -state modules, or something else. Of course, moving a server from > supporting > > -state modules (the hard part) to the datastore should be > easy. So, > > we're really only talking about servers that never want to support > , > > non NMDA-capable servers. Do you think there is going to be a market for > such > > things? - would these be ity-bitty IoT things? > > > IMO YANG modules are not rare or hard to create and the market will decide which YANG modules are needed and which are not. > > > > There is no business case for rewriting clients to use get-data(/foo, > operational) > > > instead of get(/foo-state). > > > > See how easy a change it is? And there's the benefit not having to > advertise > > a separate and potentially out-of-sync -state module, not to mention the > reduction > > of burden on module-designers to not maintain distinct -state modules in > their > > Appendix sections. > > > But it is a sideways change -- no loss or gain of any functionality. We needed to create proprietary anyways, so it doesn't really matter. The standard filtering in is not sufficient. > > > > > > It's starting to look like all the big-router-specific stuff like RD and > schema-mount will > > > cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be better than a 1-size-fits-all > that > > > nobody is happy with. > > > > I don't think we're anywhere close to that yet. > > > > > > > > Kent > > > Andy > > > > --001a114b35084708010552e036c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

>>> Also, there is nothing in YANG preventi= ng you from writing a new module

>>> that augments the YANG library, if that= is required (which it isn't in this case).

=C2=A0

>>Perhaps, but that doesn't appear to be t= he best approach, since yang-library

>>as it stands appears to not be suitable for = NMDA servers.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> The module represents YANG module conformance i= nformation for the server.

> You are saying YANG conformance mechanisms as d= efined in RFC 7950

> need to be rewritten?

=C2=A0

To some extent, yes.=C2=A0 The main thing it that cu= rrently features and deviations

are expressed at a global-level, whereas we believe = that servers may need to

be able to express these on a per-datastore basis.= =C2=A0 For instance, a feature is

supported in <running>, but not in a dynamic d= atastore, or a module is

supported in <running>, but a deviation is nee= ded in <operational>.

=C2=A0


Datastore specific YANG sounds like a bad= idea.
Can you elaborate on real use-cases?
I can see h= ow YANG extensions might be added for controlling
behavior on new= datastores, but not something like if-feature
that only applies = to a subset of datastores.


=C2=A0

=C2=A0

>>> The RD work provides no advantages what= soever for many devices that

>>> will not have I2RS or slow config conve= rgence. The traditional datastores

>>> have their own capability URIs with no = need to change them.=C2=A0 We should

>>> not disrupt these implementations becau= se new non-applicable functionality

>>> is being added to the standards.=

>>I2RS and slow convergence withstanding, give= n that future YANG modules

>>will reflect the NMDA "guidelines"= , it means that the operational state of their

>>config true nodes would only be available vi= a the new <operational> datastore.

>>Hence, even these devices will need to be NM= DA-compatible in order to report

>>all their data.

>Many people are OK with the limitations of tradi= tional datastores and do not want

> to read the operational values of config=3Dtrue= nodes.=C2=A0 Vendors can deploy the fake

> foo-state.yang modules as needed for new style = modules.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The -state trees are recommended to support a transi= tion period.=C2=A0 Currently there is

no statement for how now the transition period may l= ast.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Let the market decide,

right?=C2=A0 At some point a decision will need to b= e made to either stop publishing

-state modules, or something else.=C2=A0 Of course, = moving a server from supporting

-state modules (the hard part) to the <operationa= l> datastore should be easy.=C2=A0 So,

we're really only talking about servers that nev= er want to support <operational>,

non NMDA-capable servers.=C2=A0 Do you think there i= s going to be a market for such

things?=C2=A0 - would these be ity-bitty IoT things?=

=C2=A0



IMO YANG modules are not r= are or hard to create and the market will decide
which YANG modul= es are needed and which are not.


= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

> There is no business case for rewriting clients= to use get-data(/foo, operational)

> instead of get(/foo-state).

=C2=A0

See how easy a change it is?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 And t= here's the benefit not having to advertise

a separate and potentially out-of-sync -state module= , not to mention the reduction

of burden on module-designers to not maintain distin= ct -state modules in their

Appendix sections.

=C2=A0


But it is a sideways change -- no loss or= gain of any functionality.
We needed to create proprietary <g= et-bulk> anyways, so it doesn't
really matter. The standar= d filtering in <get> is not sufficient.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> It's starting to look like all the big-rout= er-specific stuff like RD and schema-mount will

> cause YANG deployment to fork. That may be bett= er than a 1-size-fits-all that

> nobody is happy with.

=C2=A0

I don't think we're anywhere close to that y= et.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kent

=C2=A0



Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--001a114b35084708010552e036c1-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 07:43:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B42129B4F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPX3Sxf19JcI for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A912129B4B for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE6BE45; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 4_2wge3PNrQB; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 017FB200A3; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MBYLlnKoGz8z; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23932009F; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 01A653FD4403; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:43:38 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Phil Shafer Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170627144338.GA4585@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Phil Shafer , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201706211524.v5LFOFoe013815@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] New Version Notification for draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:43:48 -0000 On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:24:14AM -0400, Phil Shafer wrote: > Can we use an ERRATA to completely remove 5.6.4? It was > a mistake to intertwine these standards, since it prohibits > any evolution away from "yang-library:1.0". I think procedurally this requires a new RFC that updates the sections 5.6.4 and 5.6.5 of RFC 7950 with new text. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 27 08:49:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3370B129A9F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 08:49:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUD3OhLsSI5S for ; 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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:49:03 +0000 From: "Szekely, Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification Thread-Index: AdLvJae0xBWjR9KVSMqn4nuZKP6kwA== Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:49:03 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [131.228.2.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR0701MB2807; 7: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 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:SKI; 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boundary="_000_DB6PR0701MB2376E35F3CB005D04A34683197DC0DB6PR0701MB2376_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2017 15:49:03.1124 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB2807 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:49:10 -0000 --_000_DB6PR0701MB2376E35F3CB005D04A34683197DC0DB6PR0701MB2376_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There is this part in the NACM RFC section 3.2.3 https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/rfc6536#section-3.2.3: A "merge" or "replace" operation may include data nodes that do not alter portions of the existing datastore. For example, a container or list node may be present for naming purposes but does not actually alter the corresponding datastore node. These unaltered data nodes are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. A "merge" operation may include data nodes but not include particular child data nodes that are present in the datastore. These missing data nodes within the scope of a "merge" operation are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. This means that if I have rules that allow the creation of a list element, = but denies the update of the list element leafs, then I can send the same e= dit-config as many times as I want, because after the first time (create is= allowed) the edit-config will not alter the datastore? Example yang, nacm rule and edit-config snippets: container test-container { list test-list { key parameter-1; leaf parameter-1 { type string; } leaf parameter-2 { type string; } } } update-deny test-module /test-container/test-list/* update delete read deny create-allow test-module /test-container create read allow merge key-1 parameter-2 Thanks for your help, Szabolcs Szekely Szabolcs Sz=E9kely Nokia --_000_DB6PR0701MB2376E35F3CB005D04A34683197DC0DB6PR0701MB2376_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
=    A "merge" or "replace" <edit-config>= operation may include data nodes
=    that do not alter portions of the existing datastore.  Fo= r example, a
=    container or list node may be present for naming purposes but = does
=    not actually alter the corresponding datastore node.  The= se unaltered
=    data nodes are ignored by the server and do not require any ac= cess
=    rights by the client.
=  
=    A "merge" <edit-config> operation may include = data nodes but not
=    include particular child data nodes that are present in the
=    datastore.  These missing data nodes within the scope of = a "merge"
=    <edit-config> operation are ignored by the server and do= not require
=    any access rights by the client.
 
This means that if I have rules that allow the creation of a list elem= ent, but denies the update of the list element leafs, then I can send the s= ame edit-config as many times as I want, because after the first time (crea= te is allowed) the edit-config will not alter the datastore?
 
Example yang, nacm rule and edit-config snippets:
 
container test-container {
    list test-list {<= /div>
        = key parameter-1;
        = leaf parameter-1 {
       &= nbsp;    type string;
        = }
        = leaf parameter-2 {
       &= nbsp;    type string;
        = }
    }
}
 
      <rule>=
        = <name>update-deny</name>
        = <module-name>test-module</module-name>
        = <path>/test-container/test-list/*</path>
        = <access-operations>update delete read</access-operations>
        = <action>deny</action>
      </rule>= ;
      <rule>=
        = <name>create-allow</name>
        = <module-name>test-module</module-name>
        = <path>/test-container</path>
        = <access-operations>create read</access-operations>
        = <action>allow</action>
      </rule>= ;
 
 
<rpc message-id=3D"rpc-1" xmln= s=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
  <edit-config>
    <target>
      <candidat= e/>
    </target>
    <default-operation>= ;merge</default-operation>
    <config xmlns=3D"= ;urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">
        = <test-container xmlns=3D"http://test.co= m">
       &= nbsp;    <test-list>
       &= nbsp;        <parameter-1>key-1<= ;/parameter-1>
       &= nbsp;        <parameter-2>paramete= r-2</parameter-2>
       &= nbsp;    </test-list>
        = </test-container>
    </config>
  </edit-config>
</rpc>
 
 
Thanks for your help,
Szabolcs Szekely
 
Szab= olcs Sz=E9kely
Noki= a
 
 
 --_000_DB6PR0701MB2376E35F3CB005D04A34683197DC0DB6PR0701MB2376_-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 12:04:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4550412969E; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:04:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149859024624.31061.4143685494482309694@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:04:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:04:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access Control Model Authors : Andy Bierman Martin Bjorklund Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2017-06-27 Abstract: The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF protocol requires a structured and secure operating environment that promotes human usability and multi-vendor interoperability. There is a need for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content. This document defines such an access control model. This document obsoletes RFC 6536. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 27 12:05:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0289812EB0B for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ptfu9WetQALg for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 428CA129AD5 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 62so33297574wmw.1 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=YWKc3GjyQ3zo9pZbAKsguOdehDojALq0auVp+wC/lgo=; b=OtB9u+H03PnxkTWKwb0pK24T3GiV3v5xkrjv2Yjyc3TDhHrQba/IilvATgqrYANMrX s1/ZYF4EOHuLNl5KspLalelxUqSvs/ZGjXFVXPS93JNkU8hYMKii5AOznSi/yv23IRPW 6WsppCR7CQ9Q2OZUE1maTGGFt/ttoty0M95hhJ6U0TyGry4i3wup9nqnIADtPPlU1w22 6mkKtD5NJSzPL1LeXP0b3ZNRU37gq6xsZtI6Bh6AtPSdRUDLYMWvBcM4qx7hVz6EXR4X XwoPBDzhJhpTzfHqgzRoVuiSQLVvST+DPPQQLaP873jiCNnuBU18OAAPq/Q6UUQXGJZC PyDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=YWKc3GjyQ3zo9pZbAKsguOdehDojALq0auVp+wC/lgo=; b=NH0I634FKONkuzK8mfvxEOsyUV63d7hXzorgOmC0rIoHgnSFgBVEMMPQJ7k0JlYJq6 M2jECddZvxIdV9MGaUbB8ekl3LLY+QQm1k7N2cF1VuTdrQVd7/elTyCYCxlzDBAljexF uSQ/geSgtv03YitboN9/mi5HH80Er5Cyproj5iPigU5DaK7xg7uu8qYEV5i6R//pDe0G GHvzS5jVAImkoqMurQouzpMjfMdOs3CXosIOieduUKYBTDeC7pyIEBankS0w40WXaU9d TNj+YopEdRhmKNVVcycCuRyytJ/mfr8FQyL72DltRPWDX6l38FSpSpMLmsaXGduaV0ON E/CQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyIqCdeSLn8hNM02B/kGKIh8qvxMqfSN93HckRx11dHWnna0JD3 XJTkX8MHuF2gMiJclY3gLN7Pe1aX2iJC X-Received: by 10.28.151.207 with SMTP id z198mr4745787wmd.48.1498590344432; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <149859024624.31061.4143685494482309694@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <149859024624.31061.4143685494482309694@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:05:43 -0700 Message-ID: Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ea2a24f78c0552f5c181" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:05:48 -0000 --001a1144ea2a24f78c0552f5c181 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, This draft updates the default-deny-write and default-deny-all extensions so they can be applied to other data models besides NACM. Andy On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 12:04 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. > > Title : Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access > Control Model > Authors : Andy Bierman > Martin Bjorklund > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03.txt > Pages : 54 > Date : 2017-06-27 > > Abstract: > The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with > the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF protocol > requires a structured and secure operating environment that promotes > human usability and multi-vendor interoperability. There is a need > for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol > access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all > available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content. This > document defines such an access control model. > > This document obsoletes RFC 6536. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1144ea2a24f78c0552f5c181 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

This draft updates the default-deny= -write and default-deny-all extensions
so they can be applied to = other data models besides NACM.


And= y


On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 12:04 PM, <internet-drafts@ietf= .org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access Control Model
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Andy= Bierman
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Martin Bjorklund
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-netconf-rfc6536bis-03.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 54
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-06-27

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The standardization of network configuration interfaces for us= e with
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF proto= col
=C2=A0 =C2=A0requires a structured and secure operating environment that pr= omotes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0human usability and multi-vendor interoperability.=C2=A0 There= is a need
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protoc= ol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content.= =C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document defines such an access control model.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document obsoletes RFC 6536.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/<= wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a1144ea2a24f78c0552f5c181-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 13:12:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CCB126B71 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QyifQLzSfH0 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3plsmtpa07-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-08.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.237]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71A841200ED for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPHLDJG5C ([165.254.182.20]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id Pwq8duKHYznf6Pwq9duqrg; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:12:02 -0700 From: "Xiang Li" To: "'Szekely, Szabolcs \(Nokia - HU/Budapest\)'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:12:03 -0500 Message-ID: <005701d2ef81$a5481530$efd83f90$@seguesoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01D2EF57.BC7BAA20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQJ6+EH0uQ+GRZcC0Wyyd7rA+6zBL6Do+N4A Content-Language: en-us X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPgN3g1B8EHb+wWRKfPEsuO4gWjV+WzBmZmq0Zxsr9sE3+blXYZcGrGsT3iOybv6m903LKeHZfQ+b1V6zWSVQ3e07OBrHZgLEb4jkGLkyF9Y5++NQMRo trLTHvM0usWY5KEWanBNvOV1kn4H+RZsVJa98RQr/zeZ/LSuRaKb6LyVWQxhwJnIGcwUlI0j83gpNtdAMTyMgmFzDJc6wBWMXi8= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 20:12:36 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01D2EF57.BC7BAA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =20 Technically speaking, the with =93merge=94 operation in = your example would not result in the *modification* of a datastore node since = the value supplied is the same as the value currently held by the server so arguably you may be able to send the same edit-config as many times as = you want without getting an error. =20 However according to RFC7950 YANG 1.1. 7.6.7. NETCONF Operations =20 When a NETCONF server processes an request, the elements of procedure for the leaf node are as follows: =20 o If the operation is "merge" or "replace", the node is created if it does not exist, and its value is set to the value found in the XML RPC data. =20 =20 Clearly, the node already exists after the initial , so a *compliant* server implementation will determine that the instance node = is already there and all it needs to do is to set to the value found in = your subsequent . But to do that, it needs =93update=94 rights, = and hence the server must send back an =93access-denied=94 error. =20 In other words, there is no requirement a server implementation must = check if the new value in an is different than the value already = in the server.=20 =20 And I think it also makes sense to reject the rest in your examples when your NACM is in effect. =20 -Xiang =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Szekely, Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest) Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:49 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification =20 Hi, =20 There is this part in the NACM RFC section 3.2.3 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6536#section-3.2.3: A "merge" or "replace" operation may include data nodes that do not alter portions of the existing datastore. For example, a container or list node may be present for naming purposes but does not actually alter the corresponding datastore node. These unaltered data nodes are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. =20 A "merge" operation may include data nodes but not include particular child data nodes that are present in the datastore. These missing data nodes within the scope of a "merge" operation are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. =20 This means that if I have rules that allow the creation of a list = element, but denies the update of the list element leafs, then I can send the = same edit-config as many times as I want, because after the first time = (create is allowed) the edit-config will not alter the datastore? =20 Example yang, nacm rule and edit-config snippets: =20 container test-container { list test-list { key parameter-1; leaf parameter-1 { type string; } leaf parameter-2 { type string; } } } =20 update-deny test-module /test-container/test-list/* update delete read deny create-allow test-module /test-container create read allow =20 =20 merge key-1 parameter-2 =20 =20 Thanks for your help, Szabolcs Szekely =20 Szabolcs Sz=E9kely Nokia =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01D2EF57.BC7BAA20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi,
 
Technically speaking, the <edit-config> with “merge” =
operation in your example would not result in the *modification* =
of a datastore node since the value supplied is the same as the value =
currently held by the server so arguably =A0you may be able to =
send the =
same edit-config as many times as you want without getting an =
<access-denied> error.
 
However =
according to RFC7950 YANG 1.1.

7.6.7.=A0 = NETCONF <edit-config> Operations

 

=A0=A0 = When a NETCONF server processes an <edit-config> request, = the

=A0=A0 = elements of procedure for the leaf node are as = follows:

 

=A0=A0 = o=A0 If the operation is "merge" or "replace", the = node is created if

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 it does not exist, and its value is = set to the value found in the

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 XML RPC = data.

 
 
Clearly, the =
node already exists after the initial <edit-config>, so a =
*compliant* server implementation will determine that the =
instance node is already there and all it needs to do is to set to the =
value found in your subsequent <edit-config>. But to do that, it =
needs “update” rights, and hence the server must send back =
an “access-denied” error.
 
In other =
words, there is no requirement a server implementation must check if the =
new value in an <edit-config> is different than the value already =
in the server. 
 
And I think it also makes sense to reject the rest <edit-conig> =
in your examples when your NACM is in =
effect.
 
-Xiang
 
 

 

 

From:<= /b> = Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Szekely, = Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest)
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 = 10:49 AM
To: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: [Netconf] = NACM edit-config clarification

 

Hi,

 

There is = this part in the NACM RFC section 3.2.3 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6536#section-3.2.3= :

   A = "merge" or "replace" <edit-config> operation = may include data nodes

   that = do not alter portions of the existing datastore.  For example, = a

   = container or list node may be present for naming purposes but = does

   not = actually alter the corresponding datastore node.  These = unaltered

   data = nodes are ignored by the server and do not require any = access

   rights = by the client.

 

   A = "merge" <edit-config> operation may include data nodes = but not

   = include particular child data nodes that are present in the

   = datastore.  These missing data nodes within the scope of a = "merge"

   = <edit-config> operation are ignored by the server and do not = require

   any = access rights by the client.

 

This means = that if I have rules that allow the creation of a list element, but = denies the update of the list element leafs, then I can send the same = edit-config as many times as I want, because after the first time = (create is allowed) the edit-config will not alter the = datastore?

 

Example = yang, nacm rule and edit-config = snippets:

 

container = test-container {

    = list test-list {

        key = parameter-1;

        leaf parameter-1 = {

            = type string;

        }

        leaf parameter-2 = {

            = type string;

        }

    = }

}

 

      <rule>

        = <name>update-deny</name>

        = <module-name>test-module</module-name>

        = <path>/test-container/test-list/*</path>

        = <access-operations>update delete = read</access-operations>

        = <action>deny</action>

      </rule>

      <rule>

        = <name>create-allow</name>

        = <module-name>test-module</module-name>

        = <path>/test-container</path>

        = <access-operations>create = read</access-operations>

        = <action>allow</action>

      </rule>

 

 

<rpc = message-id=3D"rpc-1" = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">

  = <edit-config>

    = <target>

      <candidate/>

    = </target>

    = <default-operation>merge</default-operation>

    = <config = xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">

        <test-container = xmlns=3D"http://test.com">

            = <test-list>

           &= nbsp;    = <parameter-1>key-1</parameter-1>

           &= nbsp;    = <parameter-2>parameter-2</parameter-2>

            = </test-list>

        = </test-container>

    = </config>

  = </edit-config>

</rpc>

 

 

Thanks for = your help,

Szabolcs = Szekely

 

Szabolcs = Sz=E9kely

Nokia

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01D2EF57.BC7BAA20-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 18:28:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04801201F2 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:28:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WVXJytseD70k for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED2C6126C2F for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DJH65686; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:28:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.40) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 02:28:27 +0100 Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.142]) by SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.186]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:28:21 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Andy Bierman CC: Martin Bjorklund , "evoit@cisco.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] In an update, when is a delete a delete? Thread-Index: AdLPVDqN5ppCqKOrQVCrK5qvBNQM2AAiVy4AANCNThAAEyk7AAArGsKAAAP1bgAACQ4GAAAThzGAAA9frZAAELxmgAakV8NA Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 01:28:20 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0BDD1F@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <20170523.195720.334918098247517091.mbj@tail-f.com> <98ef4c64e750467ca9a35b66b359dc8d@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20170524.093545.1590430256406536052.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0DFB052A@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.64] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0BDD1FSJCEML702CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.5953063D.0075, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.4.142, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 199caaf241fb3db042866cd50c5a84f9 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] In an update, when is a delete a delete? 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB1845 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:18:55 -0000 --_000_DB6PR0701MB237648F5D6E79C496894AA9497DD0DB6PR0701MB2376_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Sorry I didn't mention that I am using YANG 1.0. I suppose in cases like this the YANG 1.1 RFC can act as a guideline or wha= t the authors intended with the previous YANG version. Thanks for the help, Szabolcs Szabolcs Sz=E9kely Nokia From: Xiang Li [mailto:xiangli@seguesoft.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:12 PM To: Szekely, Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest) ; n= etconf@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification Hi, Technically speaking, the with "merge" operation in your exam= ple would not result in the *modification* of a datastore node since the va= lue supplied is the same as the value currently held by the server so argua= bly you may be able to send the same edit-config as many times as you want= without getting an error. However according to RFC7950 YANG 1.1. 7.6.7. NETCONF Operations When a NETCONF server processes an request, the elements of procedure for the leaf node are as follows: o If the operation is "merge" or "replace", the node is created if it does not exist, and its value is set to the value found in the XML RPC data. Clearly, the node already exists after the initial , so a *com= pliant* server implementation will determine that the instance node is alre= ady there and all it needs to do is to set to the value found in your subse= quent . But to do that, it needs "update" rights, and hence th= e server must send back an "access-denied" error. In other words, there is no requirement a server implementation must check = if the new value in an is different than the value already in= the server. And I think it also makes sense to reject the rest in your exa= mples when your NACM is in effect. -Xiang From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Szekely, Szabo= lcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest) Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:49 AM To: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification Hi, There is this part in the NACM RFC section 3.2.3 https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/rfc6536#section-3.2.3: A "merge" or "replace" operation may include data nodes that do not alter portions of the existing datastore. For example, a container or list node may be present for naming purposes but does not actually alter the corresponding datastore node. These unaltered data nodes are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. A "merge" operation may include data nodes but not include particular child data nodes that are present in the datastore. These missing data nodes within the scope of a "merge" operation are ignored by the server and do not require any access rights by the client. This means that if I have rules that allow the creation of a list element, = but denies the update of the list element leafs, then I can send the same e= dit-config as many times as I want, because after the first time (create is= allowed) the edit-config will not alter the datastore? Example yang, nacm rule and edit-config snippets: container test-container { list test-list { key parameter-1; leaf parameter-1 { type string; } leaf parameter-2 { type string; } } } update-deny test-module /test-container/test-list/* update delete read deny create-allow test-module /test-container create read allow merge key-1 parameter-2 Thanks for your help, Szabolcs Szekely Szabolcs Sz=E9kely Nokia --_000_DB6PR0701MB237648F5D6E79C496894AA9497DD0DB6PR0701MB2376_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,<= /o:p>

&nbs= p;

Sorry I d= idn’t mention that I am using YANG 1.0.

&nbs= p;

I suppose= in cases like this the YANG 1.1 RFC can act as a guideline or what the aut= hors intended with the previous YANG version.

&nbs= p;

Thanks fo= r the help,

Szabolcs<= o:p>

&nbs= p;

Szabolcs Sz=E9kely

Nokia

 

From: = Xiang Li [mailto:xiangli@seguesoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:12 PM
To: Szekely, Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest) <szabolcs.szekely@nok= ia.com>; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification

 

Hi,
 
Technically speaking, the <edit-confi=
g> with “merge” operation in your example would not result i=
n the *modification* of a datastore node since the value supplied is=
 the same as the value currently held by the server so arguably  you m=
ay be able to send the same edit-config as many time=
s as you want without getting an <access-denied> error.
 
However according to RFC7950 YANG 1.1.

7.6.7<= b>.  NETCONF <edit-config> Operations

 

   When a NETCONF ser= ver processes an <edit-config> request, the

   elements of proced= ure for the leaf node are as follows:

 

   o  If the ope= ration is "merge" or "replace", the node is created if<= o:p>

      = it does not exist, and its value is set to the value found in the

      = XML RPC data.

 
 
Clearly, the node already exists after the initial <=
;edit-config>, so a *compliant* server implementation will determ=
ine that the instance node is already there and all it needs to do is to se=
t to the value found in your subsequent <edit-config>. But to do that=
, it needs “update” rights, and hence the server must send back=
 an “access-denied” error.
 
In other words, there is no requirement a server imple=
mentation must check if the new value in an <edit-config> is differen=
t than the value already in the server. 
 
And I think it also makes sense to rejec=
t the rest <edit-conig> in your examples when your NACM is in effect.=

 
-Xiang
 
 

 


 






From: =
Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces=
@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Szekely, Szabolcs (Nokia - HU/Budapest)

Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:49 AM

To: netconf@ietf.org

Subject: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification<=
/p>





 




Hi,






 






There is this part in the NACM RFC s=
ection 3.2.3
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6536#section-3.2.3=
:






   A "merge" or "r=
eplace" <edit-config> operation may include data nodes






   that do not alter portions of =
the existing datastore.  For example, a






   container or list node may be =
present for naming purposes but does






   not actually alter the corresp=
onding datastore node.  These unaltered






   data nodes are ignored by the =
server and do not require any access






   rights by the client.






 






   A "merge" <edit-c=
onfig> operation may include data nodes but not






   include particular child data =
nodes that are present in the






   datastore.  These missing=
 data nodes within the scope of a "merge"<=
o:p>






   <edit-config> operation =
are ignored by the server and do not require






   any access rights by the clien=
t.






 






This means that if I have rules that=
 allow the creation of a list element, but denies the update of the list el=
ement leafs, then I can send the same edit-config
 as many times as I want, because after the first time (create is allowed) =
the edit-config will not alter the datastore?






 






Example yang, nacm rule and edit-con=
fig snippets:






 






container test-container {






    list test-list {<=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri&quo=
t;,sans-serif">






        =
key parameter-1;






        =
leaf parameter-1 {






       &=
nbsp;    type string;






        =
}






        =
leaf parameter-2 {






       &=
nbsp;    type string;






        =
}






    }=







}<=
/p>





 






      <rule>=







        =
<name>update-deny</name>






        =
<module-name>test-module</module-name>






        =
<path>/test-container/test-list/*</path>=







        =
<access-operations>update delete read</access-operations>






        =
<action>deny</action><=
/p>





      </rule>=
;






      <rule>=







        =
<name>create-allow</name>






        =
<module-name>test-module</module-name>






        =
<path>/test-container</path>






        =
<access-operations>create read</access-operations>






        =
<action>allow</action>=







      </rule>=
;






 






 






<rpc message-id=3D"rpc-1" xmln=
s=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">






  <edit-config>






    <target>






      <candidat=
e/>






    </target>






    <default-operation>=
;merge</default-operation>





    <config xmlns=3D"=
;urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">






        =
<test-container xmlns=3D"http://test.co=
m">






       &=
nbsp;    <test-list>






       &=
nbsp;        <parameter-1>key-1<=
;/parameter-1>






       &=
nbsp;        <parameter-2>paramete=
r-2</parameter-2>






       &=
nbsp;    </test-list>






        =
</test-container>






    </config>






  </edit-config>






</rpc>






 






 






Thanks for your help,






Szabolcs Szekely





 






Szabolcs Sz=E9kely=







Nokia






 






 
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([2001:420:30d:1320:7056:a25d:6bf7:da37]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l64sm3797154oia.6.2017.06.28.13.34.40 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <383DA6CB-84D2-4676-9655-BB1C72093017@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:34:38 -0700 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <860F6657-0B4D-4EBA-B6F3-B75D8A06F0B2@gmail.com> References: <383DA6CB-84D2-4676-9655-BB1C72093017@juniper.net> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Presentation slot requests X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 20:34:44 -0000 Kent, Thanks for prompting us, the chairs, on the call for agenda :-). Will = you be presenting all the NMDA/revised-datastore related drafts? If others on the mailing list are looking for a time slot for = presentation in the WG meeting on Thursday, please identify - what draft (the draft should have been posted) - who will present (if remote, please indicate) - how much time is needed A draft version of the slides is due by the Sunday of the start of the = meeting week. > On Jun 28, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dear WG Chairs, >=20 > I haven't seen a request for presentations yet, but I > know that the draft agendas are due soon, so... >=20 > First, I'm assuming that all of the following drafts=20 > are in Last Call and hence there isn't much to discuss, > at least not in a planned way, in Prague. So, for these > drafts, I leave it to you if you want me to present > anything or not: >=20 > - zerotouch > - keystore > - ssh-client-server > - tls-client-server > - netconf-client-server > - restconf-client-server >=20 >=20 > Next, please note that the NMDA-authors have been working > on some [not yet posted] drafts that should be presented > in Prague: >=20 > - rfc7895bis (15-20 minutes) > - nmda-netconf (10-15 minutes) > - nmda-restconf (10-15 minutes) >=20 > - revised-datastores /* technically a netmod draft, but you > may want to have some discussion in > the netconf session as well. Please > pick number of minutes as seen fit. */ >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf Mahesh & Mehmet. 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certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B088612EC67 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EFA4C6; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 7fGtwWuPmSUX; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB44200A3; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:54 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oHHQPuaZFId; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1EA22009F; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 569583FDBEB0; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:13:53 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170628211353.GB1355@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <9364542E-EFEB-4E66-A09B-143FF1EA354F@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:13:59 -0000 I am not entirely convinced by your reasoning. Do I really have to write another normative YANG module to instantiate the RC client grouping for LMAP? What if I run two LMAP instances on a box - I write another YANG module? It is likely rare that someone runs two RC servers on a box (other than testing and demonstration scenarioes) but if I want to I need to write another YANG module? /js On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 09:04:30PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > It seems that this thread petered-out. I'm hoping that my reasoning below was so compelling that it warrants no response. At least, that is my going assumption for now, as I prepare to submit updated *-client/server drafts to address Balazs's last comments. Even if the WG wants to discuss this more, it seems that it could be discussed as part of the Last Call too. > > Kent > > > > > On 6/20/17, 4:53 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Kent Watsen" on behalf of kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > > Hi Juergen, Andy, > > > Sure, but would it make any sense to configure an LMAP server using > > a global ietf-restconf-client model, or would you want something > > more like ietf-lmap-server, that 'uses' ietf-restconf-client? > > > > Interoperability means the same objects in the same namespace at the > same location. I do not get why you think this is a problem. > can you answer the question? It doesn't make sense because you want > LMAP-server "is-a" or "has-a" RESTCONF-client. Not, there is a LMAP-server > and, separately, there is a "RESTCONF-client" (whatever that means) that may > or may not be related. > > > We should not publish TBD-management-objects in the form of groupings. > There should be at least 1 "uses" for each published grouping (intended as management data). > > this doesn't always make sense. e.g., the ietf-[ssh/tls]-[client/server] > modules defy having protocol accessible nodes. e.g., the "tls-client" *grouping* > might be used by a specific apps (e.g., `curl` and `wget`), but each of those apps > would each have their own place for configuring the TLS-layer; it would not be > a global configuration that applies to all TLS-based apps on the box. > > > > That said, it occurs to me that the ietf-xxxconf-server models, which > > currently only define containers, should also define groupings, as > > there may be a ietf-foobar-whatever that can configure more than one > > ietf-xxxconf-servers - e.g., in different parts of its config tree, > > as one might be used for reason-X and the other used for reason-Y. > > What do you think? > > So should we define interfaces groupings so that everybody can > instantiate them where he sees fit? I fail to see the logic. > > Interfaces are a global thing, but there can be many different > SSH-based or TLS-based apps on a box. Similarly, there can be many > different NETCONF-based or RESTCONF-based apps on a box. > > > The routing modules use a lot of groupings, anticipating a lot of reuse. > But you are right -- we could go overboard future-proofing data structures. > I don't really like choice-stmts with 0 or 1 case-stmt (for example). > There are lots of ways we can make the modules too complicated. > > true, there are a couple instances of the single-option choice > statements in these models, for future-proofing. Though now I'm not > 100% it's still future-proofed, since Balazs added those 'must' statements, > which cannot be changed via YANG update rules... > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 28 14:46:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FF212EACF for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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BN3PR0501MB1332.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.183.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1220.5; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:46:34 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1220.014; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:46:34 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts Thread-Index: AQHS5Su1lG2YCBIgJk+Q2ri9Dy7U1qIkopIAgADdsICAAEteAIAGSy2AgABN24CAAAevgIABlLQAgAyV1YCAAEWsgP//xhKA Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:46:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4C0A408C-93B5-4A2F-A98D-893BA9D87E2D@juniper.net> <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jun 2017 21:46:34.6367 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1332 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:46:39 -0000 SGkgSnVlcmdlbiwNCg0KRm9yIFJDIHNlcnZlcnMsIHRoZSBpZXRmLXJlc3Rjb25mLXNlcnZlciBt b2R1bGUgaGFzIGEgY29udGFpbmVyLCANCmFuZCB0aGF0IGNvbnRhaW5lciBzdXBwb3J0cyBsaXN0 ZW5pbmcgb24gbXVsdGlwbGUgcG9ydHMuICBTbyBpdA0Kd291bGQgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gY29u ZmlndXJlIHR3byBhcHBzIHJ1bm5pbmcgb24gdGhlIHNhbWUgDQptYWNoaW5lLCBlYWNoIGxpc3Rl bmluZyBvbiBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCBwb3J0Lg0KDQpUaGF0IHNhaWQsIEkndmUgYWx3YXlzIGJlZW4g 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X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82F21277BB; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:09:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149870936079.6595.7023406453276489686@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:09:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 04:09:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. Title : Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access Control Model Authors : Andy Bierman Martin Bjorklund Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2017-06-28 Abstract: The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF protocol requires a structured and secure operating environment that promotes human usability and multi-vendor interoperability. There is a need for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content. This document defines such an access control model. This document obsoletes RFC 6536. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 28 21:11:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA8A1200F1 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.578 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.578 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8SQKwGKH-okB for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com (mail-wm0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4D5A126CBF for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x230.google.com with SMTP id i127so965402wma.0 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=P8aGai3+SBeOSwf5z+VxJdxtfYJmorK/QAJksZFoJH0=; b=ljXrkGlfXZ9Fto5w07bVMpX68F3CrSyO4ZjZwQTZzJQGQzV0fSs11roGsbsWkjUA/J Cg6CC6Epdtj9wDY/oE4wlJT9zWJqA4VvTzWTK5h1LswesuKZGVTNIpyGLcKo4z9K4v8o cvL3kEO2NycaUK1G6vMnK89+BJYBQnWHZclQQznF2A0UIp1qI70AzvR4qwOJovdLw7cO Q7TR8g2NQYJdOgdZnjKnirrId6Vgi7xPpJa+rPtQZO6raWieyAO3klUJgcJaBUjlwZDa MuTTLpJUmhsxR/8G70laH7JRX63UmetUi/15A/5GNKYsbX8koEbLah3hInj1Z3tGD8Sy nCAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=P8aGai3+SBeOSwf5z+VxJdxtfYJmorK/QAJksZFoJH0=; b=AoTD0v5RoXtVhFQDNA3BRkvF0haWTkfZr0i6YilyVhQsHlbCjZC4Stj3B+WZxhwvJI qhf+jqSJUuuOmK+HZbAetgyClX3mxELcy342xkzqIYsIDU4+Ytm/JOzuDLG9N93bav1l p6fhCU/0r0u85wx74nfphI/4oMZmAAEb5t771IvdTmaKhwkENwE7EJpiSiuuEEwLGI+q wpMJ388mTpoIAbE9C3RZQQECDzjA8mtripRfn4w5Gx0pbNpgydfN+QSHh1iJMGncRYgo jiQS5aBe/bqd0jYsXNq1TzQUD+ONiG19vdl+yzIQbZ3CuvOGbmuILR9jBe4eUKZJO0aq hctA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw9k14Jsa4c0H4AcG6MctbHyuQtukTORk0W40Xl54eQ3jCeYB1g 1ybwYMuCK93/NoC1wSro+X2+9tCpqTL/ X-Received: by 10.28.46.132 with SMTP id u126mr155869wmu.48.1498709503904; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <149870936079.6595.7023406453276489686@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <149870936079.6595.7023406453276489686@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:11:43 -0700 Message-ID: Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114228309a28e20553117fa1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 04:11:48 -0000 --001a114228309a28e20553117fa1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, this version just fixes the incorrect revision date for module extraction. Andy On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF. > > Title : Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access > Control Model > Authors : Andy Bierman > Martin Bjorklund > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04.txt > Pages : 54 > Date : 2017-06-28 > > Abstract: > The standardization of network configuration interfaces for use with > the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF protocol > requires a structured and secure operating environment that promotes > human usability and multi-vendor interoperability. There is a need > for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol > access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all > available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content. This > document defines such an access control model. > > This document obsoletes RFC 6536. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a114228309a28e20553117fa1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

this version just fixes the incorre= ct revision date for module extraction.

Andy
=


On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 9:09 PM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org= > wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration of the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Access Control Model
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Andy= Bierman
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Martin Bjorklund
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-netconf-rfc6536bis-04.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 54
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-06-28

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The standardization of network configuration interfaces for us= e with
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) or RESTCONF proto= col
=C2=A0 =C2=A0requires a structured and secure operating environment that pr= omotes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0human usability and multi-vendor interoperability.=C2=A0 There= is a need
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for standard mechanisms to restrict NETCONF or RESTCONF protoc= ol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0access for particular users to a pre-configured subset of all<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations and content.= =C2=A0 This
=C2=A0 =C2=A0document defines such an access control model.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document obsoletes RFC 6536.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i= etf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/<= wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a114228309a28e20553117fa1-- From nobody Wed Jun 28 22:04:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320F912704A for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:04:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 975KzaymLqqJ for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7998312025C for ; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8084BF6A; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UQyNnJ7-1_HG; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDFB200A5; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jvEoD5b7zu1G; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6402009F; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id EE8A83FDC44A; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 07:04:36 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170629050436.GA1647@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170614174839.GA57212@elstar.local> <882CBCBE-D52D-4F99-8C26-BD3997B0F3D6@juniper.net> <20170615113152.GA58303@elstar.local> <20170619161709.GA760@elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <9364542E-EFEB-4E66-A09B-143FF1EA354F@juniper.net> <20170628211353.GB1355@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] keystore and the client/server drafts X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 05:04:42 -0000 On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 09:46:34PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > For RC servers, the ietf-restconf-server module has a container, > and that container supports listening on multiple ports. So it > would be possible to configure two apps running on the same > machine, each listening on a different port. Two listening ports are not the same as two different servers. > That said, I've always been okay having the container in the RC and > NC server models. It's having containers in the RC and NC *client* > models that I can't make sense of... > > FWIW, above I mention that ietf-restconf-server has a container, > but be aware that it does not have a grouping (which would be used > by the container) that could be used by other models. I think it > might make sense to do this, to maximize flexibility. At least, > using groupings seems easier than schema-mount, which could be a > fallback option. What do you think? This is now a different topic. I am not sure groupings generally replace schema-mount. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 29 15:09:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9CA12EAEC for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BmoS3PxywMO4 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 042AB129AA3 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 62so94599011wmw.1 for ; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:thread-index :content-language; bh=LdAisnA/gTiBchWwN0bsEA47SHeiK1NG5Z/l81OPyh4=; b=Gca/QvmtJh+D9pKiKnTOngCcQyiI81E9PXJ8wk1+jdSyuTA1ht3mnxHj838SratbCs RjNtADGhbl2/qcGaw7URKXBXW8fcrLKEqXgcrRwIBK9buaxNIWADqehfbOmbEfT8vkMe oX8+joWeOaBTIBlEoGKldggTVHnZ5XtWPHeJgQFd868xRT7oI8IIVeeLygUDNLy6XIvj gIlNRCiSACk5hnYA5ZFFBj9Pe9S9mT/FB77wqKdsx/x8YOvFfm07mMMgp8lJLNhvvXPg jX5Q2OzSqmTxthjwwlf5dohgizmLc+7ciRCbCB0xvBCgQrYLj/GjU2XQGSnp4ud6HZ/M /ErQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=LdAisnA/gTiBchWwN0bsEA47SHeiK1NG5Z/l81OPyh4=; b=gDw62Dupq8mtdvNp7d8djn0vcyZzl2O1r+ccc7jQSPrY0r1qwcg9/3oHc4cEeKL5Gp nivoRVlGe0iAOapU7aPaXwTJrrjjQOsAETJl5zKherJm7+3mJ9Ao6VvNZ3lhkZcGMRbj StVWH4uW2RVP1mAT3EgyU1wtAI89XyeXsMCL+4Hckmzjwk7gdIqDAYY9sj5KhEe1OfWH JMgalo4IyDIakSgBIaSw+a+ilJhwFMO3mRBKd1DQ++4Di+ghEufC0DDFrvNWrwUdOscq KIn6mw4/KPjugLUBc9dK/lq8iBfubo4sYc6qXSXaETHYNsmNs/DKXG/rIVCywk7ceBHi LyYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxW1grVKxSNCXZmoGGyCIMPTGtdk1ddX3TIfMjMTTDaJHLVTciC TUwvpjwV9eKK6GTF X-Received: by 10.28.16.17 with SMTP id 17mr3413700wmq.1.1498774133299; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ (p57A77A8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.167.122.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c27sm5242209wrb.44.2017.06.29.15.08.52 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'Netconf'" Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 00:08:53 +0200 Message-ID: <018d01d2f124$4bbd2790$e33776b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_018E_01D2F135.0F46BAE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdLxIWgGxzH/CKjgSzaaO/oWnuIeTg== Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore and draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 22:08:59 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01D2F135.0F46BAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear NETCONF WG, we hereby issue a WG Last Call for 2 weeks for the drafts below: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 Please review and send your comments to the NETCONF WG mailing list by July 13, 2017 EOB PT. Please be aware that the Keystore and Zerotouch drafts are planned to publish as standard track documents. We would like to ask WG members to state explicitly that you have read/reviewed and whether you support the publication of the drafts. Please indicate also if you plan to implement or have already implementation experience with these drafts. Authors: Please indicate with an email on the maillist explicitly whether you are aware or you are not aware of any IPRs related to the drafts. PS: Next in the row are the 4 client-server drafts going to WGLC on July 10th. Thank you, Mehmet and Mahesh ------=_NextPart_000_018E_01D2F135.0F46BAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear NETCONF = WG,

 

we hereby issue a WG = Last Call for 2 weeks for the drafts below:

 

https= ://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02

http= s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14

 

Please review and send = your comments to the NETCONF WG mailing list by July 13, 2017 EOB PT. =

Please be aware that the Keystore and Zerotouch = drafts are planned to publish as standard track = documents.

 

We would like to ask WG = members to state explicitly that you have read/reviewed and whether you = support the publication of the drafts.

Please indicate also if = you plan to implement or have already implementation experience with = these drafts.

 

Authors: =

Please indicate with an email on the maillist = explicitly whether you are aware or you are not aware of any IPRs = related to the drafts.

 

PS: Next in the row are = the 4 client-server drafts going to WGLC on July = 10th.

 

Thank = you,

Mehmet and Mahesh

 

------=_NextPart_000_018E_01D2F135.0F46BAE0-- From nobody Fri Jun 30 05:36:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858FE127873 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 05:36:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FZc2uvqTi52h for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 05:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E64129503 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 05:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.55]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9138F1AE028C; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 14:36:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 14:37:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170630.143706.187715465181717900.mbj@tail-f.com> To: xiangli@seguesoft.com Cc: szabolcs.szekely@nokia.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <005701d2ef81$a5481530$efd83f90$@seguesoft.com> References: <005701d2ef81$a5481530$efd83f90$@seguesoft.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] NACM edit-config clarification X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 12:36:51 -0000 SGksDQoNCiJYaWFuZyBMaSIgPHhpYW5nbGlAc2VndWVzb2Z0LmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhpLA0K 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M-zsIaJ3ERY7 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546C412EC3D for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 08:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.55]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B85A81AE028C for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 17:22:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 17:22:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170630.172236.880016487537947013.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] comments on draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:22:23 -0000 Hi, Some quick comments on the keystore document: o Section 2 The text has: o A semi-configurable list of private keys, each with one or more associated certificates. "semi-configurable" sound very odd. What does it even mean? I think the model needs to be designed so that it works with the normal configuration datastores that we have. They are not "semi-configurable". I suggest s/semi-// o Section 2 Private keys MUST be either preinstalled (e.g., a key associated to an IDevID [Std-802.1AR-2009] certificate), be generated by request, or be loaded by request. What does this mean? The text is on the form: MUST be a, b, or c. This seems to imply that there are other things (d, e ...) that it MUST NOT be. What are those? o /keystore/keys/key I suggest the "INACCESSIBLE" enum is changed to something more descriptive, maybe "protected" or "tpm" or something similar. Also, what happens if a client creates a key with this enum set? I assume it is ok, but the key can't be used until "generate-private-key" has been used? o /keystore/keys/key I assume that if the client creates a new key with "generate-private-key", it shows up in . Then the client can create an entry in the config with the same name, in order to configure a certificate for example. o leaf algorithm-identifier Why is this config if it is only used when the key is generated? What happens if a client changes this on an existign key? The model has this which probably should be removed. // no 'params' like in RFC 5912? - none are set for // algs we care about, but what about the future? (there are some other comments that also should be removed, search for '//') /martin From nobody Fri Jun 30 15:28:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0948F127977 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:28:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ANQaH1ORmP6H for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0103.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.37.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DB7512741D for ; 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