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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:15:25 -0000 Kent Changing the subject because my tack is slightly different. I cannot reconcile this I-D with my (mis?)understanding of cryptography. Stepping back, I see two types of keys, symmetric where one key is used for encryption and decryption, and asymmetric, where there are two keys, public and private, mathematically related but impossible to derive one from the other, one used to encrypt, the other to decrypt. I see this I-D as solely concerned with asymmetric keys. Public and private key pairs must be generated together, after which the private key must stay secret else you have no security. Public keys by contrast are public for all to know. The challenge is authenticating that the public key really is the public key of who you think it is. Most public keys arrive by certificates which then allow you to follow a chain thereof to a hopefully trustworthy trust anchor. SSH, and some other protocols, are different in distributing naked public keys and relying on some other means of authenticating them (e.g. Trust on First Use). So when you say "AFAICT, the system should be able to generate its host-key from the private-key itself. " that is at odds with my understanding and would lead to an absence of security. When the I-D says, "that might be used to hold onto private keys and certificates " I struggle to see the point. Indeed, the module contains public keys as well as "leaf public-key { config false; mandatory true;" so you are really storing public/private key pairs (which may be generated on the box). The I-D also says "Certificates associated with this private key." which defeats me. A certificate or chain thereof gives me a public key, never a private one, and the means to authenticate the public key. A public key may or may not have a certificate or chain thereof. A TLS client would likely have both but will rarely have a private key. A server of any protocol (except SSH and such like) will have a public/private key pair and a certificate (and likely a chain thereof) to send to any enquiring client along with the public key. An SSH server would have a public/private key pair but likely no certificates. So, I cannot reconcile my understanding with the I-D. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" To: "Kent Watsen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:09 PM > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 05:00:06PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > >> >> >> - I am not sure I understand trusted-host-keys. On systems that have > > >> >> >> multiple user accounts, you usually have a per account list of > > >> >> >> trusted host keys in addition to a global system wide list. Perhaps > > >> >> >> make it clear that this models the global known hosts list only? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> it's a list of lists, so there can be many different > > >> >> >> sets a host-keys defined, with each application/use pointing > > >> >> >> to its own entry. The ietf-ssh-client module's grouping has > > >> >> >> a leafref to a specific entry. FWIW, this grouping is > > >> >> >> used by ietf-netconf-client module. At the moment, there > > >> >> >> no other uses of this grouping. I think that you may be > > >> >> >> getting confused between the key the server presents (the > > >> >> >> host-key) versus the key user presents. > > >> >> >> . > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I though these are the authorized host keys? Yes, I am confused. If > > >> >> > these are user public keys, they should not be called host keys. But > > >> >> > yes, I am confused (but I started to read the other documents). > > >> >> > > >> >> This leaf encodes an SSH public key (RFC4253, 6.6), same as used in > > >> >> /ietf-system/system/user/authorized-key/key-data (and I have changed > > >> >> this leaf's type to match it in my local copy already), but the uses > > >> >> are different. In ietf-system, the authorized-key is configured on > > >> >> a server in order to authenticate subsequent SSH-client connections. > > >> >> Here, we're taking about the key that that SSH-server presents to > > >> >> the client. These are the host keys that OpenSSL often puts into the > > >> >> ~/.ssh/known-hosts file. > > >> > > > >> > I understand what you are modeling is /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key.pub > > >> > and friends. Make sure it is described clearly. Or do you actually > > >> > mean the clients cache of authenticated keys that goes into an > > >> > account's known-hosts file? In this case, the keystore may be the > > >> > wrong place. > > >> > > >> /keystore/trusted-host-keys/trusted-host-key is in fact like the > > >> known-hosts file. That is, these are the host-keys that a client has > > >> "pinned" or "trusted". The ietf-ssh-client has a leafref to one of > > >> these entries. We could rename "trusted-host-key[s]" to > > >> "pinned-host-key[s]" if that helps. Ditto for trusted-certificate[s]) > > >> > > >> By contrast, /keystore/keys/key/name is referenced by ietf-ssh-server > > >> to identify the host-key(s) the SSH server presents to SSH clients. > > >> This is analogous to /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key.pub and friends. This > > >> node isn't called e.g. /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key because, AFAICT, > > >> the system should be able to generate its host-key from the private-key > > >> itself. Thus, referencing the name is equivalent. If there were a > > >> /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key node, it would be a gratuitous config > > >> false value that somehow encoded the host-key in a more SSH friendly > > >> format. But, it may have a subtler value in that, I think that your > > >> confusion may be because it was NOT there and so, in its absence, > > >> you may have thought that the "trusted-host-keys" must serve that > > >> function. Thoughts? > > >> > > >> BTW, "host key" has a specific meaning, defined in RFC4251#4.1, not to > > >> be confused with authorized keys. > > > > > > I do not really follow you. I think I do understand what a host key > > > (pair) is and that it is different from a users key (pair). > > > > Fine, but this is SSH architecture thing, not something specific to > > the draft - right? > > ??? > > > > Yes, I did > > > not understand from reading the ID that the private SSH host key is to > > > be found in /keystore/keys/key/name (likely because of all the > > > certificate stuff around it that I have never seen used with SSH host > > > keys). > > > > Okay, then do you like having a /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key node? > > I guess what I am looking for is a more radical split between X.509 > stuff and SSH key stuff, the most radical split would be a module for > X.509 keys and certs and another module for SSH host keys. Or > alternatively, if there is really a strong reason to have all these > different keys in one list, then define the list such that > augmentations add X.509 stuff and SSH key stuff. I am not a fan of > lists where the usage of leafs for different purposes is not clear. > > > > I guess I am not a big fan of bundling the way X.509 keys and certs > > > work together with how SSH keys work (because I am not used to this > > > and the systems I tend to use do not do this either). Anyway, if this > > > is the direction to go, I think this needs explanatory text somewhere. > > > > So then perhaps factoring out the x.509 and ssh stuff out into augmenting > > modules? > > I am not sure how much is left, other than a list with a key name leaf > and whether it is worth to have this common structure (and whether any > uniqueness constraints resulting from that are a benefit or not). > > > > > >> >> >> - Should the document title be aligned with other YANG module > > >> >> >> definitions, so it is easier to spot it? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I don't understand, what do you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > We often use "[A] YANG Data Model for ....". > > >> >> > > > >> >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YANG#Usage_in_Standards > > >> >> > > > >> >> > The current name does not say YANG (sometimes I search for YANG > > >> >> > in the RFC index) and Keystore is also pretty broad given the > > >> >> > related work we have. > > >> >> > > >> >> Gotcha, how about "YANG Data Model for Keystores"? > > >> > > > >> > Yes, except that 'keystores' leaves readers unclear about the scope. I > > >> > commented several times that the names of this module and the other > > >> > module for symmetric keys are unfortunate. Concerning the SSH keys, I > > >> > am still concerned that we would be better off to have a separate SSH > > >> > module that takes care about managing an SSH server's host keys and > > >> > then this module would be X509 certificate specific, i.e., a 'YANG > > >> > Data Model for Managing X.509 Keys and Certificates' would be a clear > > >> > and well defined scope. > > >> > > >> From a refactoring perspective, we could have a base module and then > > >> two augmenting modules, one for SSH and the other for X.509. I would > > >> think to define all three modules in the same draft, but that wouldn't > > >> help your draft-name issue. We could put each module into own draft > > >> (e.g. +2 drafts), but is it worth it for renaming sake? Maybe an even > > >> longer title? "YANG Data Model for Managing Asymmetric Private Keys, > > >> X.509 Certificates, and SSH Host Keys'? Naming aside, what do you > > >> think about the module-factoring idea? > > > > > > Perhaps it is simpler to have one data model to manage X.509 keys and > > > certs and another data model to manage SSH keys. I do not know how > > > much commonality there is. At the end, I also do not mind if > > > everything is lumped together as long as it is clear how to implement > > > things and key formats etc match with what implementations typically > > > do. > > > > Two modules, something like ietf-ssh-keystore and ietf-x509-keystore? > > Of course, there would overlap between them (e.g., both modules would > > have the /keys/key hierarchy, the ietf-ssh-client/server modules might > > need to import both keystores, since SSH can use X.509 certs too (per > > RFC6187). I don't know, this doesn't seem right. For instance, what > > is a server to do if it generates a private key that has not yet been > > associated with an X.509 cert or SSH host key, is the private key to > > appear in both keystores? > > Is this how systems work? My command line tools either create X.509 > keys or SSH keys. > > > >> >> >> - Since the certs of a key do not contain a signature, where are signed > > >> >> >> certificates stored or are they outside the scope of the model? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I'm confused, certificates are signed structures already... > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Well, the description of certificates/certificate/value says: > > >> >> > > > >> >> > An unsigned PKCS #7 SignedData structure, as specified > > >> >> > by Section 9.1 in RFC 2315, containing just certificates > > >> >> > (no content, signatures, or CRLs), encoded using ASN.1 > > >> >> > distinguished encoding rules (DER), as specified in > > >> >> > ITU-T X.690. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes, I am confused how this works. > > >> >> > > >> >> Okay, now I understand your confusion. I believe the text is > > >> >> accurate. Think of the PKCS#7 structure being a little like a > > >> >> TAR file that contains a directory structure like this: > > >> >> > > >> >> pkcs7: > > >> >> /signed-info > > >> >> /signature - this sig is only over 'signed-info' ... > > >> >> /extra-certificates > > >> >> /extra-revocation-objects > > >> >> > > >> >> So, in this case, we're using a degenerate form of the pkcs7 > > >> >> structure that has no content (signed-info), signature, or CRLs > > >> >> (revocation-objects), it only contains the certificates. Perhaps > > >> >> my use of the word "unsigned" isn't clear enough? > > >> > > > >> > So why pkcs7, is this what implementations use? The certificates > > >> > > >> Why pkcs7 is because each certificate may have an associated chain > > >> of certificates leading to a trust-anchor CA certificate. For instance, > > >> a vendor might have a CA called "foo-root" that signs an intermediate > > >> CA called "foo-intermediate" that signs the "foo-entity" certificates. > > >> So, a given foo-entity certificate (a single X.509 structure) is > > >> commonly presented along with its chain of CA certs (more X.509 > > >> structures), in this case, the "foo-intermediate" and "foo-root" CA > > >> certs. The pkcs7 structure is commonly used for this purpose in the > > >> PKI world. Yes, it could be just a TAR file having a flat list of > > >> certs, but then we'd have to define that structure, whereas its > > >> already defined in pkcs7. > > >> > > >> > I find in /etc/ssl/certs on my Debian system seem to be in PEM format. > > >> > > >> PEM and DER are interchangeable formats. PEM is essentially the base64 > > >> encoding of the DER surrounded by the "===== BEGIN/END CERTIFICATE > > >> =====" header/footer. > > >> > > > > > > DER encoded certificate or pkcs7? I thought PEM is just a base64 > > > encoded version of the DER encoded certificate, no pkcs7 involved. > > > > Both PKCS7 and X.509 or ASN.1-encoded structures, and all ASN.1 structures > > can be encoded using PEM, DER, or even BER. Your debian system's "certs" > > directory undoubtedly only contains root certs, hence there is no cert-chain > > to staple to them, and hence a single X.509 structure (either PEM or a DER) > > is perfect. As soon as you step into needing more than one cert, then > > either PKCS7 or PKCS12 (both of which could be PEM or DER encoded), or a > > very special multi-part PEM (one that contains more than one of the "=====" > > BEGIN/END blocks) could be used. BTW, all this was discussed a while back > > related to https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/issues/1. What's written > > in the GitHub issue tracker should be ignored, search instead the list-archive > > on issue #1... > > > > What matters is that the I-D is clear and captures the important > reasons etc. You can't expect implementors to read github issues > or mailing list archives. Sorry for my ignorance. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 1 03:48:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31326132CF3; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:48:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yb7cO65eUrjt; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AE84132064; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:205]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id cUiWdOLY5Qs3acUiWdTur7; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:48:02 +0200 Received: from 2001:983:a264:1:e02d:215:e37:a526 by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:48:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:48:00 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Sheng Jiang Cc: 6tisch@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> Message-ID: <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfBocXnfmrunqhWmJuSA5f25kfkgY+sNieHNwxtC0lfEWhjta0wohLS6No42V/TrN932K/oDYWuY/cEIZKr/KNe2hmZTojlWN96zh4oFZtgPZYTk//9Zd PppD7T/njVxEO97CdfJ+cEhKIUrfePQe4cNT37XL1MxulGwVKYAFSIw6iOfUx47NNyq3jskAWSHzubGQDNHNFB+bxh5PAVoj9F/A4tosljqm14e7OD1ljUlz Xv1F5EPx2mXqEkTXMxynCPWFVYcKOkZTfOS4YD2wbngGY1L04BQ3CLW4LRaZa1a+sdvdMQmk8ejHhDVzID66jQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 10:48:07 -0000 Hi all, I read this document, and find it well written and understandable. I do have some remarks about the content and several editing remarks. Content remarks: section 6, leaf prior-signed-voucher, at the end: The MASA SHOULD remove all "prior-signed-voucher". I would encourage a "MUST" instead of a "SHOULD" when thinking of transporting vouchers over constrained networks. section 6.3: leaf idevid-issuer, description, paragraph 2, "populated for serial numbers that are not otherwise unique" to be replaced by "populated when serial numbers are not unique". My proposed text is less selective, and consequently less error prone. Can a discussion section about "manufacturer additions" be added. Pointing out the consequences for interoperability when using "Augment" to add manufacturer specifics can be helpful. Editing remarks: Introduction, first phrase: pledge -> candidate device (pledge) page 3, PKCS#7 add RFC2315 reference, and may be add RFC7154 as JSON reference. Section 2; mention terminology from RFC7950 page 4 line 5; "process. i Typically" remove the "i" page 4, Voucher: add: that "acknowledges ownership of the pledge and" indicates... page 5 Authentication of: First appearances of PKIX, DNS-ID, and CN-ID abbreviations. page 5, add (MiTM) after Man-in-The-Middle. page 6 table: Voucher name -> Voucher type Nonceless Audit Voucher: "to support network partitions" -> "to withstand network partitions" Owenership audit Voucher: "Voucher's" -> "Vouchers", and remove "an ideal" otherwise explain what that means and why it is true. Add type in: Ownership ID voucher "type" is named Bearer Voucher "type" is named section 6 "The voucher is signing structure that" -> "The voucher signing structure" section 6, paragraph 6, all "of" the certificate, remove "of" section 6 page 7 below, First appearance of CA and JWS abbreviations section 6.1 (see section 4) add "see" section 6.3 page 10, module description: "securely assign one or more pledges to an 'owner'" seems to contradict section 7.2 voucher per pledge section 7.1 last line: "there is a delay" is that delay between creation and consumption and when is the delay unacceptable? the text is (on purpose?) vague. section 8.1 first paragraph: "no understandING of time", add "ing" section 8.1 paragraph 2: ephermal -> ephemeral section 8.2 compromized -> compromised? Hope this helps peter From nobody Tue Aug 1 05:04:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18130126BF3 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Uqi6hNFE7mP for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F141131CD7 for ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:04:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D76C40005D; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:04:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1501589056; bh=w52YXLwIIP92lHv0KrdYwW9F2WmT0LDWj+XN9MqB5V4=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=mCjDoigWv7FbhH3Ha2N9YrqDOIFTGJs63SCQkDccpHeQMhS7PI5gFFJlxIsSNdkkj oEURHvkYOc9mK9JXgd3PkD/rQvKlAnFIYCncXG4xDGVV235RKA4cpdCHy/tFzgp4NA tN4ckxPPVlPbknrh9PwA6kaTtsumpagXNj4YuCJM= To: Kent Watsen Cc: Vican Pavol , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <255a18c0-480a-981c-6c8a-933ba7b289a1@cesnet.cz> <01880FD9-6295-4F2A-8659-A22D51DBDFC3@juniper.net> From: =?UTF-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:03:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <01880FD9-6295-4F2A-8659-A22D51DBDFC3@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] notes to draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:04:23 -0000 Hi Kent, Dne 26.7.2017 v 19:06 Kent Watsen napsal(a): > draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 > > - section 7.2 seems as, kind of, duplication ofsection 6.3 > > True, but the one in 6.3 includes e.g. the "NMS" to tie it into = the workflow examples in Section 6. There is a separate discussion regar= ding if Section 6 should be moved to the Appendix, since it's not normati= ve, but some prefer it in the draft. My only thought here is that, if Se= ction 6 were moved to the Appendix, would it then be okay to keep this wo= rkflow? currently, 7.2 seems to be normative (device ... MUST support ...), but i= s it really the intention? I mean, are there some interoperability (or ot= her) issues when device does not follow (or somehow modify) the boot sequ= ence? Since 6.3 and 7.2 describe the same part of the process, why one is= supposed to be normative and the other non-normative? But after all, I'm= actually fine with keeping 7.2 in document, I'm just trying to simplify = readers' life :) > > - IDevID - not sure if the draft expects something about its uniqueness= =2E From my perspective, vendor is actually allowed to put the same IDevI= D into all its devices and there will not be any (security) issue, right?= It just means that bootstrap server cannot distinguish such device so th= ey all get the same data. Or am I missing something? Anyway, I would appr= eciate some explicit note about IDevID uniqueness.I know that in the most= cases there is some unique number hardcoded in the device, but in some c= ases the device can miss something like this and then vendor would have t= o modify the software of each of them. > > IDevID is defined by IEEE 802.1AR-2009 as an X.509 certificate t= hat encodes "globally unique per-device identifiers". In particular, it'= s a 2-tuple of a manufacturer-id field and a serial-number field. Two de= vices claiming to have the same IDevID would be a security issue, as one = could then impersonate the other. All this to say, IDevID is very much u= nique and also very much a hardware thing. That said, since the IDevID i= s being used to enable a device to authenticate itself to a bootstrap ser= ver, for which options may exist. For instance, while not described by t= he draft, because it's not technically *zero* touch, a software-based sol= ution could prompt the installer for something like a password that the d= evice uses to authenticate itself to the bootstrap server with instead...= ok, maybe extending the draft text this way would help to understand it. = Maybe just extend description in 1.2: =2E.. as the secure device identifier ... -> ... as the globally unique s= ecure device identifier ... > > - at several places there is a note about sending notification about th= e bootstrap process to the bootstrap server. I was wondering how RESTCONF= client is sending notification to the RESTCONF server, finally at one pl= ace there is note that it sends "notification" action, so then I was clea= r, but naming action "notification" maybe confusing :)It would be great i= f some other name could be used for that. > > yes, this was mentioned by others as well, but your idea to rena= me the action is new. I think the action was called "progress-notificati= on" before, which I had shortened for brevity. Other ideas might be "boo= tstrap-status" or maybe "status-update". Do you have a suggestion? I would prefer to use some verb form - update-status, report-status, chan= ge-status > ietf-zerotouch-information@2017-06-19.yang > > - onboarding-information/boot-image/* - is it necessary to have it mand= atory? I can imagine use cases when there is no boot image and the only b= ootstrap dataneeded is the configuration anydata content. > > I think that it needs to be mandatory because how scripts are wr= itten and configuration is constructed may depend on the version of softw= are running on the device. Of course, if the software running on the dev= ice already matches the expected software-version, then the software-upda= te progress would be a no-op. Maybe we could provide the match as a rege= x instead to, for instance, say that any minor-version of a specific majo= r-release is okay (see next comment) ok, but then it is software version / release, boot-image seems confusing= to me. I would be fine with keeping the name for the container, but desc= riptions should be more general - "boot image" can be just a software pac= kage in a repository and hash-algorithm does not make sense then. ok, it = can be augmented with key to verify repository/package, but the name coul= d be even git hash and then what is the mandatory hash-algorithm? > - onboarding-information/boot-image/name - there is a note about regexp= - no, the naming convention can very vary for different vendors/use case= s, keep it without pattern > > The idea of the regex is to be able to match any vendor-specific= format. For instance, for JUNOS, I might write "17.2R[1-4].*" to match = all 17.2-based 'R' release between 1 and 4. ok, I misunderstood it, I actually thought you want to add pattern to its= string type. There can be an issue with selecting regexp variant (there = will be always someone willing to use a different one). Since the value i= s highly device/software-specific (I can't imagine using the same value f= or JUNOS and CISCO IOS), I would probably avoid precise specification of = the regexp format and prefer just to mention regexp possibility in descri= ption but let the regexp support implementation-specific. > ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server@2017-06-19.yang > > - /device/unique-id - is the unique really necessary? I mean ID is wide= ly understood as unique and in the schema it is defined as key, so I beli= eve that just id would be fine > > this field-name is a somewhat a holdover from before. Since the= n, the draft has essentially turned to using "serial number" as its uniqu= e id (per DevID). But, since serial-numbers may not be unique across man= ufacturers, a unique-id may be to be constructed using the 2-tuple [manuf= acturer, serial-number]. It is up to each manufacturer to determine if t= his is needed for themselves. ok, probably I should study harder about the DevID, IDevID and serial num= bers differences because I'm getting lost :) Radek From nobody Tue Aug 1 11:24:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C111321F1; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBrRA4a2IH12; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02on0136.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.36.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A05B713221F; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:24:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=32IyEfdNar+JkB2SPpefJxeFkle/G42RMSVMz9a70jo=; b=BFlZrpfdKqtk45YZON19Mw2rxSFUWrtrOqfgFQL2tLHLZEQgMqEL7M/+p3XXokmft0MoB2opr3nwzDeRG2/bm+uiWeLOB20XciA+grIHbU9rhogUECtnqIAtz4NxwGblqQwWUmRaskdy0ZNADr2I8+isvL3ZswWfLRX1vO/ssAk= Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.151) by BN3PR0501MB1476.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Aug 2017 18:24:25.8972 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1476 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:24:31 -0000 SGkgVG9tLA0KDQoNCj4gQ2hhbmdpbmcgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgYmVjYXVzZSBteSB0YWNrIGlzIHNs aWdodGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudC4NCj4gDQo+IEkgY2Fubm90IHJlY29uY2lsZSB0aGlzIEktRCB3aXRo IG15IChtaXM/KXVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgb2YgY3J5cHRvZ3JhcGh5Lg0KPiANCj4gU3RlcHBpbmcg YmFjaywgSSBzZWUgdHdvIHR5cGVzIG9mIGtleXMsIHN5bW1ldHJpYyB3aGVyZSBvbmUga2V5IGlz 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19:09:44 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-006.cisco.com (173.37.102.16) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:09:43 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-006.cisco.com ([173.37.102.16]) by XCH-RCD-006.cisco.com ([173.37.102.16]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 14:09:43 -0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 Thread-Index: AQHTB+7zuFAY4qBtPEiFAM8Bielcg6Juu4KAgAEGkwA= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 19:09:43 +0000 Message-ID: <8A73EA6F-A375-42B8-BB2F-7EC43A662B0C@cisco.com> References: <150128009697.20678.11905105517795192@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: 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GzstyvpbdB0wmpT4EvZglH5D7c9WSnFF7S5HbHDmP2OY/8I9DQQPyAmDnUJhudqvKf2e v2/dUIxUuwWFOi++/bGXPN0Fi8JWW+D0+E4LLbcGh3sVgX0ogCfVYe8VEbmDdpn6CvyY Jlgg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110P+Xvti+vNT1uXtfACEI8V/ux2GK/X9l94mB4qRj0AbFz0lkR6 Ghsuv9+lbfdns0gPP9ktM0DqNzgTkIU0 X-Received: by 10.223.134.39 with SMTP id 36mr16332354wrv.244.1501615925348; Tue, 01 Aug 2017 12:32:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.160 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:32:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150128020275.20726.13027423171798327745@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:32:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:32:11 -0000 --001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Thanks for your review. Below are my responses to your comments. > > Thanks, > Kent > > > -- > > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > Review result: Ready with Nits > > Review: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 > > Modules: > (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang > (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang > > > YANG Usage: > > I did not find anything wrong in either module. > pyang and yangdump-pro do not report any errors or warnings. > > Comments: > > C1: > > (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF session" > needs to be defined > > > good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying transport > (TLS) that has a session. Fixed. But what about the 'max-sessions' leaf, > under 'listen', in both modules? - should this also be changed to talk > about the TLS session, or removed altogether? > > > I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TLS session" if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF > > C2: > > (M1) feature tls-initiate > (M1) feature tls-listen > (M2) feature tls-listen > (M2) feature tls-call-home > > Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > the TLS transport? > > the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > clients/servers may support. > OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, listen). You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future versions could be different. Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not clear how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: feature tls-listen { if-feature listen; ... } feature tls-listen { if-feature listen; ... } > the "tls" in the name of these features is likely unnecessary but > 1) maybe, someday, there will be another transport? and, 2) these names are > consistent with the names in the ssh modules, where there are both the > "tls" and "ssh" based feature names, and so make more sense there. > > > > C3: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/ > > RESTCONF has no session setup; It only has request and > response interactions. The purpose of reconnect, idle timeouts etc. > are completely up to the client application. > > > similar to the above, this is really meant to reflect the TLS > layer. It may not make too much sense for /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent. > That said, I think it's okay, in the sense that a real HTTPS client might > keep the underlying TLS session open across many HTTP-level interactions as > a performance optimization. What do you think? > > Change it to be TLS session > FWIW, it does *make* sense for /restconf-server/call-home/res > tconf-client/connection-type/persistent/. For instance, a client may > need to keep the call-home connection open in order to send messages to the > server when it needs to... > > > OK -- this may be more clear than hiding persistent in max-retries == unlimited > > C4: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/max-attempts > > What should the RESTCONF client do if a "Connection: close" > header is received from the server (indicating the server is dropping > the TCP connection) Should the reconnects proceed? > > I don't understand the question. The 'max-attempts' regards > testing the aliveness of a server that the client is already connected > to. But, assuming the client was configured to try to maintain a > persisted TLS connection, the client would immediately try to reconnect > to one of the configured RESTCONF servers. > OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case for Connection: close. > > C5: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that > the RESTCONF server may deliver messages pending for > the RESTCONF client. The RESTCONF server must close > the connection when it is ready to release it. > > This is not how RESTCONF works. > The RESTCONF server requires a request message in order to > send content to a client. I do not understand the use-case > for periodic RESTCONF sessions. > > Right, the server might be buffering data to send to > the client (e.g., logs). Maybe it's a wording issue? > > OLD > > server may deliver messages pending for the RESTCONF client > > NEW > > client can collect data (e.g., logs) from the RESTCONF server > > What do you think? > It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > > > > > C6: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection-type/ > periodic/ > > The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > not timeout an SSE response connection > > > Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' leaf > says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > > Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time provided) I think this would have to be used by the client. This tells the server to drop the connection when the replay is complete. This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > > C7: > > Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams > > Old text should be replaced with reference to > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01 > > same comment as before. > > > OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable > > C8: > > (M1) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017 > (M2) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017 > > fixed. > > > > Nits: > > Some descriptions mention SSH. This should be removed from > this document. > > done. > > > The descriptions for choices that have only 1 case should > explain why a choice is being used. > > done. > > > The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings, > even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts > open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output, > to really follow the data model structure. > > I know. Do you have a proposal? > > The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram should be made for uses external-grouping. > > > The examples do not show any usage of the hello-params. > This would be useful because the namespace for the > identityref objects (tls-version, cipher-suite) is not > the same as the module that uses the grouping. > > Point taken. I sent Gary an email on this also. > > > > Note that the 'map-type' identityref is shown correctly encoded > in examples on page 19 and 20. > > not sure which draft you mean, but it's okay, I know how to prefex > identities. > > > > Andy --001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Thanks for your review.=C2=A0 Below are my responses to your comments.

Thanks,
Kent


--

Reviewer: Andy Bierman
Review result: Ready with Nits

Review: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04

Modules:
=C2=A0(M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang
=C2=A0(M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang


YANG Usage:

=C2=A0I did not find anything wrong in either module.
=C2=A0pyang and yangdump-pro do not report any errors or warnings.

Comments:

C1:

=C2=A0(M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF sessi= on"
=C2=A0needs to be defined


<KENT> good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying tra= nsport (TLS) that has a session.=C2=A0 Fixed.=C2=A0 But what about the '= ;max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modules?=C2=A0 - s= hould this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed altoge= ther?




I think you can change = it to "transport session" or "TLS session"
if= the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF

=C2=A0

C2:

=C2=A0(M1) feature tls-initiate
=C2=A0(M1) feature tls-listen
=C2=A0(M2) feature tls-listen
=C2=A0(M2) feature tls-call-home

=C2=A0Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support=
=C2=A0the TLS transport?

<KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what = clients/servers may support.


=
OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, liste= n).
You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-su= pport,
but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implement= ed.
Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
versions could be different.

Also, recent YA= NG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested
nodes do n= ot inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 It is not clear
how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.

<= /div>
=C2=A0So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:

<= /div>
=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feat= ure listen;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
=C2=A0 }
=
=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-featu= re listen;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
=C2=A0 }


<KENT> the "tls" in the name of these features is likely un= necessary but 1) maybe, someday, there will be another transport? and, 2) t= hese names are consistent with the names in the ssh modules, where there ar= e both the "tls" and "ssh" based feature names, and so = make more sense there.



C3:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/=

=C2=A0RESTCONF has no session setup; It only has request and
=C2=A0response interactions. The purpose of reconnect, idle timeouts etc. =C2=A0are completely up to the client application.


<KENT> similar to the above, this is really meant to reflect the TLS = layer.=C2=A0 It may not make too much sense for /restconf-client/initiate/r= estconf-server/persistent.=C2=A0 =C2=A0That said, I think it's oka= y, in the sense that a real HTTPS client might keep the underlying TLS sess= ion open across many HTTP-level interactions as a performance optimization.= =C2=A0 What do you think?


Change it to be TLS session
=
=C2=A0
FWIW, it does *make* sense for /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-cli= ent/connection-type/persistent/.=C2=A0 For instance, a client may need= to keep the call-home connection open in order to send messages to the ser= ver when it needs to...



OK -- this may be more clear than hidi= ng persistent in max-retries =3D=3D unlimited

=C2= =A0

C4:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/= max-attempts

=C2=A0What should the RESTCONF client do if a "Connection: close"=
=C2=A0header is received from the server (indicating the server is dropping=
=C2=A0the TCP connection) Should the reconnects proceed?

<KENT> I don't understand the question.=C2=A0 The 'max-attemp= ts' regards
testing the aliveness of a server that the client is already connected
to.=C2=A0 But, assuming the client was configured to try to maintain a
persisted TLS connection, the client would immediately try to reconnect
to one of the configured RESTCONF servers.

<= div>
OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a s= pecial case for Connection: close.




C5:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so = that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RESTCONF server may deliver messages pending= for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RESTCONF client.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF server m= ust close
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the connection when it is ready to release it.
This is not how RESTCONF works.
The RESTCONF server requires a request message in order to
send content to a client.=C2=A0 I do not understand the use-case
for periodic RESTCONF sessions.

<KENT> Right, the server might be buffering data to send to
the client (e.g., logs).=C2=A0 Maybe it's a wording issue?

OLD

=C2=A0 server may deliver messages pending for the RESTCONF client

NEW

=C2=A0 client can collect data (e.g., logs) from the RESTCONF server

What do you think?


It sh= ould be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe POST
=
to initiate the sending of stored data like logs

<= div>=C2=A0




C6:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ =C2=A0(M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection= -type/periodic/

=C2=A0The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. =C2=A0The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server shoul= d
=C2=A0not timeout an SSE response connection


<KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeou= t' leaf
says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never<= br> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to sh= ed idle
connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect log= s
from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?



Notification replay has= a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time provided)
I think= this would have to be used by the client.=C2=A0 This tells the server to d= rop
the connection when the replay is complete.

This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-sess= ion

Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?




C7:

Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams

Old text should be replaced with reference to
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01

<KENT> same comment as before.




OK -- wait for tree dra= ft to be stable
=C2=A0

C8:

=C2=A0(M1) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017
=C2=A0(M2) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017

<KENT> fixed.



Nits:

Some descriptions mention SSH. This should be removed from
this document.

<KENT> done.


The descriptions for choices that have only 1 case should
explain why a choice is being used.

<KENT> done.


The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings,
even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts
open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output,
to really follow the data model structure.

<KENT> I know.=C2=A0 Do you have a proposal?


The external nodes cannot really use a= prefix because they
are pulled in from groupings, and technicall= y in the same module namespace.
I don't know if any changes t= o the tree diagram should be made for
uses external-grouping.


=C2=A0


The examples do not show any usage of the hello-params.
This would be useful because the namespace for the
identityref objects (tls-version, cipher-suite) is not
the same as the module that uses the grouping.

<KENT> Point taken.=C2=A0 I sent Gary an email on this also.



Note that the 'map-type' identityref is shown correctly encoded
in examples on page 19 and 20.

<KENT> not sure which draft you mean, but it's okay, I know how t= o prefex identities.






Andy
=C2=A0

--001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:44:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893F812EC48; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VC5znih3t_rQ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) 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-0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 Thread-Index: AQHTB+7XG4uCskNmz0G4+8XG9F6WsqJuuaaAgAESEYA= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 19:44:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150128005005.20715.8994557350330588925@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.199.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <6AC5F7B131F98F4188469765838A86BA@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: 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YWdyYW1zLTAxDQogICAgDQogICAgPEtFTlQ+IElzIHRoaXMgc2FmZT8gIEkndmUgcmVzaXN0ZWQg ZG9pbmcgdGhpcyBzbyBmYXIgYmVjYXVzZSBJDQogICAgd2Fzbid0IHN1cmUgaWYgdGhlIHRyZWUt ZGlhZ3JhbXMgZHJhZnQgbWlnaHQgYnJlYWsgc3ludGF4Li4uDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQog ICAgQzM6DQogICAgDQogICAgIChNMSkgSUVURiBjb3B5cmlnaHQgc2F5cyAyMDE0OyBjaGFuZ2Ug dG8gMjAxNw0KICAgICAoTTMpIElFVEYgY29weXJpZ2h0IHNheXMgMjAxNDsgY2hhbmdlIHRvIDIw MTcNCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICA8S0VOVD4gZG9uZSENCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICAN CiAgICANCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Wed Aug 2 02:43:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA75312EC13; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:42:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53Nxox_1K-fa; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25863127978; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 02:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA75EE00C; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 05:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D981E8076D; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 05:42:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: consultancy@vanderstok.org cc: Sheng Jiang , anima-chairs@ietf.org, 6tisch@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [6tisch] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 09:42:59 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain peter van der Stok wrote: > section 6, leaf prior-signed-voucher, at the end: > The MASA SHOULD remove all "prior-signed-voucher". > I would encourage a "MUST" instead of a "SHOULD" when thinking of > transporting vouchers over constrained networks. I believe that users of vouchers over constrained networks will want to "sub-class" the voucher. (I'm sure that's the wrong YANG term) There will be an example of how to do this in BRSKI, so we don't need to do that. > Hope this helps It does. Also proves you read every word. We also accept patches via github :-) -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlmBnp8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUZiQf+L/t8Sfd0Fi0Rhpf6E4ilPZiDZ86LnF59tAYtf6KA8w0dn5hfpUw4wgWw EdeBh/lqNYo3qMDls68ZOHgOapocCMZavGprz3x5WLUs3zcIBQpMeLroM5OSF79m UNmvb/ofTVbUAVa+nsN5C38a8hNfMJOM75Qfy4LEwcDBl8IuDn9wde76/w9Yw+gH l4PMKatjUdvMAKHE75sE5OpFBxeCNbd2uvo/UC5dNp0Rpb2X/lwiWYAksF/UJl+p QLMZ0vEjHZQVbUDS+ONR7qdF0WGGrqMNlL5X2FrHGJrkQhIwEyibutzrBJRPiRZ7 ZmAKoPQi/rlZ8s87UbOrog9kyducDg== =SYJC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Aug 2 03:20:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462A3131EA6; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:20:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: 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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB2997 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:20:23 -0000 Kent Mostly yes. I think the one further change that I would like is to move away from o An unordered list of pinned SSH host key sets... I think that the scope should be a public key, not limited to SSH and not restricted to what is referred to as a host key. Typically this would be in a client enabling it to trust a server to establish a secure channel which may then be used for further authentication. I see this as far more common than SSH. And since the scope is asymmetric cryptography, I would state the obvious in the Abstract This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including private keys, pinned certificates, and public keys, such as pinned SSH host-keys, for use in asymmetric cryptography. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Watsen" Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 7:24 PM > Hi Tom, > > > Changing the subject because my tack is slightly different. > > > > I cannot reconcile this I-D with my (mis?)understanding of cryptography. > > > > Stepping back, I see two types of keys, symmetric where one key is used > > for encryption and decryption, and asymmetric, where there are two keys, > > public and private, mathematically related but impossible to derive one > > from the other, one used to encrypt, the other to decrypt. > > > > I see this I-D as solely concerned with asymmetric keys. > > Correct, though there was a time when we considered having a "password" > leaf, which would've been a form of a symmetric key. > > > > Public and private key pairs must be generated together, after which the > > private key must stay secret else you have no security. Public keys by > > contrast are public for all to know. The challenge is authenticating > > that the public key really is the public key of who you think it is. > > Most public keys arrive by certificates which then allow you to follow a > > chain thereof to a hopefully trustworthy trust anchor. SSH, and some > > other protocols, are different in distributing naked public keys and > > relying on some other means of authenticating them (e.g. Trust on First > > Use). > > Correct, though it's worth noting that SSH can also distribute X.509 certs > per RFC 6187. > > > > So when you say "AFAICT, the system should be able to generate its > > host-key from the private-key itself." that is at odds with my > > understanding and would lead to an absence of security. > > My mistake, I was using the old name "private-key" before we changed > it to just "key", and what I really meant to say was that the system > should be able to convert /keystore/keys/key/private-key into a > representation suitable for software consumption (e.g., an openssh > host-key file). > > > > When the I-D says, "that might be used to hold onto private keys > > and certificates "I struggle to see the point. Indeed, the > > module contains public keys as well as > > "leaf public-key { > > config false; > > mandatory true;" > > so you are really storing public/private key pairs (which may be > > generated on the box). > > That particular sentence, in the Abstract and Introduction, has been > rewritten based on Juergen's comments. The abstract now says: > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including > private keys, pinned certificates, and pinned SSH host-keys. > > The Introduction now says: > > This document defines a YANG [RFC7950] module for a system-level > mechanism, herein called a "keystore". The keystore provides a > centralized location for security sensitive data, as described below. > > This module has the following characteristics: > > o A configurable list of keys, each a public/private key pair. If a > key is used to sign a certificate signing request (CSR), which is > then signed by a certificate authority (CA), then the resulting > certificate may be configured as being associated with the key. > Keys are expected to be configured using standard configuration > mechanisms, however, to support hardware that generates keys, the > key may also be created via an action called 'generate-private- > key" action. Keys may also be preinstalled (e.g., a key > associated to an IDevID [Std-802.1AR-2009] certificate). > > o An unordered list of pinned certificate sets... > o An unordered list of pinned SSH host key sets... > o An action to request the server to generate a new key... > o An action to request the server to generate a CSR... > o A notification... > > Does this help? What "point" are you not seeing? > > > > The I-D also says "Certificates associated with this private key." > > which defeats me. A certificate or chain thereof gives me a public key, > > never a private one, and the means to authenticate the public key. > > Again, this goes back the old name "private-key" before we changed > it to just "key". I agree that it's wrong at face-value. Above you > can see how this text was changed. Now what it says makes more sense. > > > > A public key may or may not have a certificate or chain thereof. > > true. > > > > A TLS client would likely have both but will rarely have a private > > key. > > True, assuming client certificate based authentication is "rare". > > > > A server of any protocol (except SSH and such like) will have a > > public/private key pair and a certificate (and likely a chain thereof) > > to send to any enquiring client along with the public key. An SSH > > server would have a public/private key pair but likely no certificates. > > All true > > > > So, I cannot reconcile my understanding with the I-D. > > I think it was mostly due to the whole "private-key" to "key" rename > not having percolated through all the text yet. Yes? > > > > Tom Petch > > Kent > > > > > From nobody Wed Aug 2 14:37:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEE2129ACD; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.012 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yeIR51XTHQ1m; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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"draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 Thread-Index: AQHS/tjFB6LSB6mMA0ixt1H16U9uU6Jbyb8AgAEruACAC1e7gIAAnl+AgAA4dACAAE3eAP//00kAgABFrwCABIqHgIAATTQAgAMwH4A= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:47:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150028100874.32703.14161403810529927281@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170720165942.GB21506@elstar.local> <20170728073923.GA28870@elstar.local> <701F31A6-9941-4DE4-AE7E-00E859F103F8@juniper.net> <20170728154008.GA29865@elstar.local> <53886D3E-8A0C-4664-A7BD-1E708A80EE9D@juniper.net> <20170728170930.GA30054@elstar.local> <7079A8FA-A8C6-4677-9DBA-2A00637AD023@juniper.net> <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0A668B1CC2E0C14F9B781DCDC03C9F9F@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Aug 2017 23:47:42.1154 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1170 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 23:47:46 -0000 DQpIaSBKdWVyZ2VuLA0KDQo+IDxzbmlwLz4NCj4gWWVzLCB0aGUgaG9zdC1rZXkgcmVzaWRlcyBv biB0aGUgc2VydmVyLCB0aGUgcHVibGljIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIGhvc3QNCj4ga2V5IG1heSBiZSBz 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elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C214D40079FA; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:37:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:37:59 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170803063759.GC35265@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170720165942.GB21506@elstar.local> <20170728073923.GA28870@elstar.local> <701F31A6-9941-4DE4-AE7E-00E859F103F8@juniper.net> <20170728154008.GA29865@elstar.local> <53886D3E-8A0C-4664-A7BD-1E708A80EE9D@juniper.net> <20170728170930.GA30054@elstar.local> <7079A8FA-A8C6-4677-9DBA-2A00637AD023@juniper.net> <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 06:38:05 -0000 On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 11:47:42PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Juergen, > > > > > Yes, the host-key resides on the server, the public part of the host > > key may be stored on a client in a known-hosts file so that client can > > check whether it talks to the right server. So far so good. > > > > It seems /keystore/trusted-host-keys/trusted-host-key represents > > /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts (i.e. a _global_ known hosts list) and there > > is no way to learn the public known host key from a server via the > > YANG module. Can I request creation of a hew host key? There is > > generate-private-key but that seems to be more tied to X.509 stuff. > > The 'generate-private-key' action is no way meant to be just for X.509 > stuff. But I acknowledge that there might be a semantic-gap here. > For instance, if one wants to ask an SSH server to generate a new > host-key, one expects an API called something like 'generate-host-key' > (inside an SSH namespace, or as an action to the server instance), > rather than first generating the 'key' and then separately saying that > it's the host-key. I think that this could be caulked up to saying > that there is a base API layer and then, separately, higher level > layers that use it, but it's worth the discussion if it makes sense > at all... Sound complex and unclear to me. > > Note that this does not model ~/.ssh/known-hosts since the list is not > > on a per user account base. It would actually be the equivalence of a > > global /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts file. > > Not exactly. As it is undetermined who, or which models, point to the > keystore host-key lists. In some data models, it might be global and, > in others, user specific. OK, but very different from how implementations work (they tend to store account specific known host keys in account specific places). > >> > >> No, your system most likely does not use a keystore mechanism. For > >> instance, OpenSSL's `ssh-keygen` utility just writes to a local file. > >> We're doing something a little different here, which is a cause for > >> careful review (thanks again). Taking a step back, one of the drivers > >> for this keystore mechanism is to centralize the /trusted-host-keys > >> and /trusted-certificates, as these lists are referenced from many > >> locations. Less important to centralize are the private keys, as > >> the keys (always?) have a single use. The only reason for centralizing > >> the private keys is to give keys created via the generate-private-key > >> action a place to be listed before they are used for some purpose... > > > > The question is whether there is value to centralize beyond the > > differnet key systems. Is there really added value to try to treat SSH > > keys and X.509 in the same list infrastructure or are they at the end > > just different things? What about other keys, i.e., for signing DNS > > zones or RPKI keys? Is it useful to try to put all of these keys that > > serve different purposes into a common structure? The open source > > people maintaining software packages seem to keep things separate. Is > > Junos having such a centralized asymmetric keystore? How about IOS XR? > > Others? If not, why would a standard do this? > > JUNOS is not having a centralized keystore. I can't speak for IOS or > others, but I guess not. This model is suggesting a *conceptual* > keystore. As the keystore draft says: > > It is not required that a system has an operating system level > keystore utility to implement this module. > > But to your higher-lever question, is there value to treating such > various keys similarly, all I can say is that all such private keys > should be protected and, as such, the nacm:default-deny-all property > given here is apropos. > It is easy to specify nacm:default-deny-all on multiple branches. I am concerned about trying to create a unified asymmetric keystore that nobody really has experience with and that maintenance of it may become a real problem given that this would involve collaboration and coordination between multiple WGs in the IETF (ideally this work should be done by security WGs). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 3 02:35:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEA113232C for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 02:35:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jbtN2KZm4uNQ for ; 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Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:26:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:26:19 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 11:26:25 -0000 --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I took a look at both documents today and I am attaching my two reviews. Since the structure of the documents is quite similar, the review comments are also quite similar. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ssh-client-server-review.txt" - The overall setup is somewhat complicated but I do understand why. Obviously, the attempts to make things generic come with a price since many YANG definitions interact with other definitions that need to be understood. And while the end result is that we can configure SSH clients and servers for NETCONF, we only have a collection of groupings to configure a regular SSH client or server. Should we have an instantiation of these groupings for regular SSH clients and servers as well? To create a YANG model for a regular SSH server (for system level or CLI access), one would have to implement the ietf-keystore model, write a YANG module to suitably instantiate the ietf-ssh-server:ssh-server-grouping and likely use some endpoints-container grouping (well this has not been factored out yet but I get to this in a different review). Obviously, reusability comes with a certain price in complexity and I guess this is why we often had WG meetings where Kent asked questions but nobody felt to respond. Anyway, if we create these reusable components, we need to find a name for them. Saying these are SSH client and server models (as the title does) is likely confusing people since the definitions are really only meaningful if instantiated in other contexts. The simplest change might be to change the title to "YANG Groupings for SSH Clients and SSH Servers". - The text in section 2 points out as an example X.509v3 certificate based host keys. I think these are far less common than regular SSH host keys. If so, perhaps we should use a different example? It might be useful to explain that X.509v3 certificate host keys are actually a YANG feature, i.e., not expected to be implemented everywhere. The example requires to understand the keystore model. Can a more complete example be provided that incorporates part of the keystore? - Copyright year should be 2017 not 2014 (update required in multiple places). - Document authors and YANG module authors do not line up. - 'for just the SSH configuration omitting' - should there be a comma before omitting to get the structure of the sentence straight? Or break into two sentences? - s/is authenticate/is authenticated/ - The example in 3.2 is again X.509 centric. Would be nice to see the more common case as well. It is also difficult to understand the example without seeing the corresponding part of the keystore model. - The identities in ietf-ssh-common probably need to be moved to IANA and there likely need to be proper procedures for managing the identities. Are the identities clearly SSH specific? If not, the management will likely be more complex. - I think it is a good practice to introduce for every base identity a corresponding specific identityref type so that tree diagrams etc have a more readable type. The pattern is: identity foo { description "Abstract base identity for foos."; } typedef foo-ref { type identifyref { base foo; } description "A foo identity reference."; } And then you use foo-ref as the type in the data models that refer to foo identities. - Security considerations: This may need some rewriting since there is really no data tree. The general template does not really work well for modules only defining reusable groupings. I think what is really needed here are guidelines for authors of documents using the groupings. Also remove text that clearly is irrelevant (there are no RPC so why spent a paragraph on them). --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="tls-client-server-review.txt" - As noted in my review of the SSH equivalent, I suggest to change the title to something like "YANG Groupings for TLS Clients and TLS Servers". - Copyright year should be 2017 not 2014 (update required in multiple places). - Document authors and YANG module authors do not line up. - In section 2, should there be text that says what happens if there is not client authentication configured or how to extend this for authentication types commonly found on the web for instance? - 'for just the TLS configuration omitting' - should there be a comma before omitting to get the structure of the sentence straight? Or break into two sentences? - Does the TLS server not need to know which key to use? I only see a reference to a certificate to use. - With web servers, things are often more complicated since you only know which key/certificate to use once you know which site is being accessed. The Server Name Indication (SNI) TLS extension [RFC 6066] deals with this. How could this be factored into the YANG server grouping? - The description of the list certificate says "unordered list of certificates the TLS server can pick from when sending its Server Certificate message.". So how does the server pick the certificate? Is the idea that the somewhat vague text takes care of SNI? What if SNI is not used, which certificate is picked? How does the server pick the corresponding key? (Or are these certificates assumed to all be associated with the same key?) - The identities in ietf-tls-common probably need to be moved to IANA and there likely need to be proper procedures for managing the identities. Are the identities clearly TLS specific? If not, the management will likely be more complex. - I think it is a good practice to introduce for every base identity a corresponding specific identityref type so that tree diagrams etc have a more readable type. The pattern is: identity foo { description "Abstract base identity for foos."; } typedef foo-ref { type identifyref { base foo; } description "A foo identity reference."; } And then you use foo-ref as the type in the data models that refer to foo identities. - Security considerations: This may need some rewriting since there is really no data tree. The general template does not really work well for modules only defining reusable groupings. I think what is really needed here are guidelines for authors of documents using the groupings. Also remove text that clearly is irrelevant (there are no RPC so why spent a paragraph on them). --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 06:54:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19BCE132359 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:54:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8KewwWjMyEtX for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B74C13233B for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B4AF39 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id OZHhOp8siF7T for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F80200BA for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFZ9eBSANFhn; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8A0200B8; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 69F824008482; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 15:54:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170803135414.GA35984@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:54:20 -0000 On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 01:26:19PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Hi, > > I took a look at both documents today and I am attaching my two > reviews. Since the structure of the documents is quite similar, the > review comments are also quite similar. > One more thing: Since ietf-ssh-client, ietf-ssh-server, ietf-ssh-common essentially define only groupings (one grouping per module) and identities, I suggest to merge these definitions into a single module, say ietf-ssh-common. This way, the module name ietf-ssh-server can be used (later) to define an instantiation of the groupings for a standalone SSH server. I would suggest the same for the ietf-tls-* modules (even though there is not a common standalone TLS server). Since these modules will have conformance-type 'import' in YANG library, I do not really see what the benfit of splitting things into multiple modules. What you implement is defined by the modules using the groupings. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 3 09:13:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5B13202A for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 09:13:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit 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([2001:420:30d:1320:20ac:9d9e:5dbe:85e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o186sm60948944pfo.155.2017.08.03.11.51.41 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Aug 2017 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FA67D125-1D16-47C7-AB6F-4955DD86E4F2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <1BEE236A-FE53-4462-A84A-649D877848A8@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:52:13 -0700 Cc: Netconf Message-Id: <2D83389E-A3D5-47A9-B9FC-B77A3DBC2674@gmail.com> References: <66F1DC3A-CA57-4C3F-BE68-80A1761A055C@gmail.com> <1BEE236A-FE53-4462-A84A-649D877848A8@juniper.net> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RFC7895bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:51:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FA67D125-1D16-47C7-AB6F-4955DD86E4F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks everyone. This concludes a successful call for adoption of the = draft. Authors please repost the draft as draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis. > On Aug 3, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > =20 > As a contributor, I support adoption of rfc7895bis. > =20 > Thanks, > Kent > =20 > =20 > On 7/28/17, 3:21 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani" = on behalf of = mjethanandani@gmail.com > wrote: > =20 > In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong = support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Note, the focus = of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, and as such falls within the = charter of the WG. > =20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 = > =20 > This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who = showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft = should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to = this thread.=20 > =20 > Thanks. >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_FA67D125-1D16-47C7-AB6F-4955DD86E4F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Thanks everyone. This concludes a successful call for = adoption of the draft.

Authors please repost the draft as = draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis.


On Aug 3, 2017, at 11:36 AM, = Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

 
As a = contributor, I support adoption of rfc7895bis.
 
Thanks,
Kent
 
 
On 7/28/17, 3:21 PM, "Netconf on behalf of = Mahesh Jethanandani" <netconf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of mjethanandani@gmail.com> = wrote:
 
In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of = hands indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG = item. Note, the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, and as = such falls within the charter of the WG.
 
This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it = includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you = think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, = by responding to this thread. 
 


Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_FA67D125-1D16-47C7-AB6F-4955DD86E4F2-- From nobody Thu Aug 3 11:53:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03DC312ECC6; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 11:53:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150178639100.7144.3541130171787002692.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 11:53:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] The NETCONF WG has placed draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis in state "Adopted by a WG" X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 18:53:11 -0000 The NETCONF WG has placed draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis in state Adopted by a WG (entered by Mahesh Jethanandani) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis/ From nobody Thu Aug 3 13:53:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F85131CC2 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:53:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S3YsIEw1qUTC for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.transpacket.com (s91205186171.blix.com [91.205.186.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D39C8131BF8 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 13:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6379A1403069; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pgwPbY-7jFML; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C2E140306B; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id QocxrNOw5bZY; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.209.122] (s1853520235.blix.com [185.35.202.35]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D6D51403064; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:02 +0200 (CEST) To: Balazs Lengyel , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> From: Vladimir Vassilev Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 22:53:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] NMDA comments X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 20:53:07 -0000 Hello, On 07/17/2017 12:38 PM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 > ------------------------------------------- > A lot of things should be mandatory and are not including module-name, > revision. They are needed by the user. It is even stranger that > deviations refer t modules by name, but the name is optional in the > list of modules. > > Is it an error if a module containing only config=false data is listed > for the running datastore? IMHO not, it should just be ignored in the > running datastore? Right. IMO 'mandatory true;' for both name and revision leafs after removing them as list keys was the intention (right?). I would like to use the occasion to propose the removal of the 'revision' key from the 'deviation' list making the revision leaf mandatory true instead. IMO it is a logical contradiction that exists in the original rfc7895 module allowing multiple instances of the same module name with different revisions to be listed while the description statements state that only a single revision of a module (the one that has conformance-type=implement) can be listed as deviation. /Vladimir > > The module-set-id only reference to the legacy part both in > /yanglib:yang-library-change/yanglib:module-set-id and > /yanglib:modules-state/yanglib:module-set-id. I assume this will > change also if something changes in the /yanglib:yang-library and the > notification will also be sent. > > regards Balazs > > From nobody Thu Aug 3 18:32:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7AB12EBF9 for ; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:32:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1320.10; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 01:32:44 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1320.010; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 01:32:44 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: =?utf-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= CC: Vican Pavol , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: notes to draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 Thread-Index: AQHTBguMZf+Ncmi6qE6lpL2POWalMaJmE+QAgAlcgACAAkVJAA== Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 01:32:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <255a18c0-480a-981c-6c8a-933ba7b289a1@cesnet.cz> <01880FD9-6295-4F2A-8659-A22D51DBDFC3@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1345; 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smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <78E1A7E8597F6C4583674BF69709EB63@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2017 01:32:44.2492 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1345 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] notes to draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 01:32:49 -0000 SGkgUmFkZWssDQoNCg0KPj4gLSBzZWN0aW9uIDcuMiBzZWVtcyBhcywga2luZCBvZiwgZHVwbGlj 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Y3R1cmVyLCBzZXJpYWwtbnVtYmVyXS4NCj4+IEl0IGlzIHVwIHRvIGVhY2ggbWFudWZhY3R1cmVy IHRvIGRldGVybWluZSBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIG5lZWRlZA0KPj4gZm9yIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMuDQo+DQo+ IG9rLCBwcm9iYWJseSBJIHNob3VsZCBzdHVkeSBoYXJkZXIgYWJvdXQgdGhlIERldklELCBJRGV2 SUQgYW5kDQo+IHNlcmlhbCBudW1iZXJzIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIGJlY2F1c2UgSSdtIGdldHRpbmcg bG9zdCA6KQ0KDQpJdCBpcyBwcmV0dHkgaW52b2x2ZWQsIGJ1dCByZWFkaW5nIDgwMi4xQVItMjAw OSwgd2hpY2ggZGVmaW5lcyB0aGUNCkRldklELCBpcyBoaWdobHkgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgZm9yIExD IHJldmlld2VycyBvZiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcyBhZ2FpbiwNCktlbnQNCg0KDQoN Cg0K From nobody Fri Aug 4 01:42:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7F3126B6D for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 01:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E3B5A4009266; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:42:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 10:42:38 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170804084238.GA36641@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 08:42:45 -0000 Here is my review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04. Several comments may also apply to draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 but I have not yet read this netconf version in detail yet. - what is this editor note? EDITOR NOTE: Please ignore this section, it is incomplete. Should there not be more meaningful text? - Is this correct? Just the container is displayed below, but there is also a grouping that the container is using. - autors and copyright year These seem to be out of sync in the YANG contact statement. - endpoint-container [client side] OLD "The IP address or hostname of the endpoint. If a hostname is configured and the DNS resolution results in more than one IP address, the RESTCONF client will process the IP addresses as if they had been explicitly configured in place of the hostname."; NEW "The IP address or hostname of the endpoint. If a domain name is configured, then the DNS resolution should happen on each usage attempt. If the the DNS resolution results in multiple IP addresses, the IP addresses will be tried according to local preference order until a connection has been established or until all IP addresses have failed."; - duplication of endpoints-container Since the endpoint-container grouping is duplicated and only used once where it is defined, why not inline it? I thought about factoring it out but see the endpoint discussion further below... - endpoints-container [client] description The description "This grouping is used to configure a set of RESTCONF servers a RESTCONF client may initiate connections to."; seems to say the wrong thing. Anyway, if the grouping is RESTCONF specific and only used once, defining the grouping is somewhat pointless. Furthermore, using two definitions of endpoints-container in a single document is somewhat confusing. - endpoint lists asymmetry For listening endpoints, the following pattern is used (list with embedded choice): +--rw endpoint* [name] +--rw name string +--rw (transport) +--:(ssh) {ssh-listen}? | +--rw ssh | +--rw address? inet:ip-address | +--rw port? inet:port-number : : /* ssh specifics per endpoint */ +--:(tls) {tls-listen}? +--rw tls +--rw address? inet:ip-address +--rw port? inet:port-number : /* tls specifics per endpoint */ Note this is a single list of listening endpoints (each list element with a unique name) for all transports supported. For initiating endpoints, the structure is different (choice with embedded lists): +--:(ssh) {ssh-initiate}? | +--rw ssh | +--rw endpoints | | +--rw endpoint* [name] | | +--rw name string | | +--rw address inet:host | | +--rw port? inet:port-number : : /* ssh specifics for _all_ endpoints */ +--:(tls) {tls-initiate}? +--rw tls +--rw endpoints | +--rw endpoint* [name] | +--rw name string | +--rw address inet:host | +--rw port? inet:port-number : /* tls specifics for _all_ endpoints */ Note that this means different uniqueness requirements for endpoints names. Furthermore, the second version essentially boils down to case ssh { container ssh { uses endpoints-container { ... } uses ss:ssh-client-grouping { ... } } } This looks nice but then it is not possible to have different ssh client parameters for different endpoints, which may be a serious limitation. The first nesting structure allows endpoint specific ssh parameters but it seems more complex to use reusable groupings. As explained in draft-schoenw-netmod-yang-pattern-00, using multiple lists in a choice furthermore has the disadvantage that it is not possible to generically refer to a listening endpoint, e.g., using a simple leafref. My conclusion is that we should be really using "list with embedded choice" and not "choice with embedded list". - 3.1 Tree Diagramm - What does this tell me? Just the container is displayed below, but there is also a grouping that the container is using. - What about the commented out NACM import? - s/REETCONF/RESTCONF/ - What is the purpose of the feature client-cert-auth? - Why is restconf-server defined as a grouping? It is used only once, no? - Is the listening address really optional? Which address is used if the leaf is not present? I think the description text is confusing ('of the interfaces' and 'all interfaces') and I would rather make the address mandatory. How about: mandatory true; description "The IP address of the endpoint to listen on. Please note that some addresses have special meanings (e.g., '0.0.0.0' and '::')."; I think also the port leaf description should be reworded: description "The port number of this endpoint to listen on."; - As discussed above, I suggest the structure of the crurrent call home lists and end endpoint list should be changed: call-home - endpoint* [name] - name :tls - address - port - tls parameters - call home logic (connection type, etc.) Yes, this requires to duplicate call home logic if multiple clients are configured to call home to but it also easily allows them to be different. - fallback connection types? We have persistent and periodic call homes. Is there a need to support fallback call homes, e.g., adding a case "fallback" (or whatever the right term) which is used when some other connections failed? The fallback container could have a leafref to the endpoint it serves as a fallback for. OK, I see something like this was intended with the reconnect strategy. But I think things would be simpler if the server always processes all call home endpoints according to the connection-type and the connection-type defines if some are there only has fallbacks. It is also unclear how reconnect-strategy/max-attempts interacts with keep-alives/max-attempts. - security considerations This needs some work (remove RPC text since there are no RPCs), add discussion of the different subtrees. - references I am wondering whether RFC 8040 and RFC 8071 are not normative references for this document. It seems NACM is not normative since it is not used (only in a commented out section) in anything normatively defined here. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 4 05:12:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7C212700F; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 05:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FwWIOBLujD9; 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Typically this > > would be in a client enabling it to trust a server to establish a secure > > channel which may then be used for further authentication. I see this > > as far more common than SSH. > > Agreed. > > > And since the scope is asymmetric cryptography, I would state the > >obvious in the Abstract > > > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including > > private keys, pinned certificates, and public keys, such as pinned SSH > > host-keys, for use in asymmetric cryptography. > > You're touching a point similar to what that Juergen raised. I think > the solution here is to refactor the ietf-keystore module into a base > module, which doesn't mention anything protocol-specific, and augmenting > modules that are protocol specific. If this were done, then the > abstract might read: > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data, such as > asymmetric private keys. This document defines additional modules > that augment the base keystore module adding support for X.509 > and SSH. > > What do you think? Kent I doubt that it will clarify. My model is that are different ways of arriving at a public key but that once you have, then the cryptography is the same, with a choice of algorithms. If you are a SSH client, then likely you have a stash of public host keys associated with one or more SSH servers, and, apart from algorithms, no more. If you are a TLS client, then likely you are using X.509 and will have a pre-configured trust anchor, in the shape of a public key or a certificate (which may or may not be root). If you are a SSH server, then likely you will have stash of private/public key pairs, perhaps with constraints on their usage, and the ability to generate further private/public key pairs. If you are a TLS server, then you will have one or more X.509 certificates with your public keys, a chain of X.509 certificates back to an anchor that the client will trust, the corresponding private keys and perhaps the ability to generate a X.509 certificate with a public/private key pair; this may or may not chain back to a trusted root. There are other TLS options but I think that their usage is limited, but in the context of network management, one or more could be significant although I don't have a specific example in mind ( I like PAKE but do not see it in use). So the only part in common is what you do once you have the public key, which is not much. Tom Petch. > Kent > > > > > From nobody Fri Aug 4 09:08:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42301323AE for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:08:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mR56lQHIHuh5 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 192F91321AB for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E890166F for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id HUIeWjAwMTW7 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B31200AA for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:50 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xb2dC548ZGOc; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F40200B8; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1A8434009A73; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 18:08:48 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netconf@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netconf@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 16:08:55 -0000 Here is my review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04. Some comments may also apply to draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04. - Introduction I think the document should reference RFC 6242 (NC over SSH) and RFC 7589 (NC over TLS). I also like the inline citation style more than the extra paragraph pointing to the RFCs and I am not sure it is necessary to reference the TLS and SSH specifications directly given that the SSH and TLS specifics are dealt with in another document. OLD This document defines two YANG [RFC7950] modules, one module to configure a NETCONF client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server. Both modules support both the SSH and TLS transport protocols, and support both standard NETCONF and NETCONF Call Home connections. NETCONF is defined by [RFC6241]. SSH is defined by [RFC4252], [RFC4253], and [RFC4254]. TLS is defined by [RFC5246]. NETCONF Call Home is defined by [RFC8071]). NEW This document defines two YANG [RFC7950] modules, one module to configure a NETCONF [RFC6241] client and the other module to configure a NETCONF server. Both modules support both NETCONF over SSH [RFC6242] and NETCONF over TLS [RFC7589] and NETCONF Call Home connections [RFC8071]. - endpoint list and choices and other inherited comments See my discussion in my restconf-client-server comments; I think the proper construction is to have a list of endpoints where each endpoint is contains a choice. There are more comments that equally apply to the netconf-client-server model so whatever the resolution is, we need to apply the changes consistently. - section 2.3 The statement about the imports before the module definition is incorrect. - copyright and authors The copyright year and the authors need to be aligned. - example addresses The examples should use IANA reserved example IP addresses instead of 11.22.33.44, potentially including some IPv6 addresses. - section 3.3 The statement about the imports before the module definition is incorrect. - hello-timeout Do servers really wait 600 seconds (= 10 minutes) by default for a hello message? There is also a comment whether this should be removed altogether. I would be in favour of removing this. We also do not care about how long the SSH layer is waiting for the hello string or how long the TLS layer is waiting for TLS records to flow. If needed, this can be added later. - design considerations It needs to be decided what to do with this. Either this becomes a (short) complete list of objectives (and then we would need the same for the twin RESTCONF document) or we drop this. In general, I am a fan of having objectives spelled out at the beginning since this makes it clear what to expect. Otherwise, there is just a ton of YANG. - security considerations There is a warning that max-sessions != 0 may be exploited for a denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to have in the first place? Remove the boilerplate text about RPCs since there are no RPCs. Replace the other NONE markers will a useful discussion of the subtrees. - tree diagrams outdated The tree diagrams list the choice :(password) which is not anymore in the YANG definitions, so apparently the tree diagrams are outdated. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 4 09:24:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EE7132327; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 09:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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b=ZVoK/fhQniTqtrNO9bm9T9KrVb2B+DT7sesgQScoZSOyDgblUmjsPVn404k+XxYLNUqKe7E3d1qlwcx28d9zCFbKV+owtsXawGY364OXVeDuJd7n2mHhgna44uzj6hO2/RaRhC8WyRI5cLHIbJ2qvR/+bC34GmEphtsxCHPxX4E= Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.151) by BN3PR0501MB1601.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.161.217.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1320.10; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:24:13 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1320.012; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:24:13 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] NMDA comments Thread-Index: AQHS/ujeB2vpJYYqyUKPyD0Sq6EwxaJ0O1qA Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 16:24:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> 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Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Aug 2017 16:24:13.6403 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1601 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] NMDA comments X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 16:24:18 -0000 SGkgQmFsYXpzLA0KDQoNCj4gR2VuZXJhbDogSXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIG1vcmUgY2xlYXJseSBkZXNj cmliZSBob3cgbGVnYWN5IGRldmljZXMgdGhhdCBkbyANCj4gbm90IHdpc2ggdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBO TURBIHNob3VsZCBiZWhhdmUuIFRoZXkgc3RpbGwgbmVlZCBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSANCj4gb3BlcmF0 aW9uYWwgZGF0YXN0b3JlLCBidXQgbWlnaHQgbm90ICh3aWxsIHByb2JhYmx5IG5vdCkgaGF2ZSBh 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[108.247.125.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w201sm2076896oie.7.2017.08.04.13.21.27 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Aug 2017 13:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D0B642E-C0D4-44C9-AC2C-7AD5D3FC8953" Message-Id: <8F6B2A13-2FE8-4679-BC5F-68D41E17EB83@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:21:26 -0700 References: <00df01d2f97e$58c162f0$0a4428d0$@gmail.com> To: Netconf In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG Last Call for SSH/TLS and NETCONF/RESTCONF Client Server Models X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 20:21:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5D0B642E-C0D4-44C9-AC2C-7AD5D3FC8953 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The WGLC ended on Monday unsuccessfully. The show of support that these = drafts had in the WG meeting in Prague did not materialize on the = mailing list. The authors will take the current crop of comments, address them and = post an updated I-D. We will resume the LC at that time. Thanks. > On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:01 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > WG, >=20 > During the meeting at IETF 99, there were several hands that went up = indicating that they had read these documents. But as Kent noted in his = presentation, he had not received any comments - good or bad. >=20 > We would like to ask those hands that went up and others in the WG to = please indicate if they believe the documents are ready. Silence = unfortunately, does not tell us much. Please indicate that you have = concerns/no concerns/support the document. Even a +1 for adoption is = helpful. If you have concerns, please indicate what specific concerns = you have. >=20 > The LC runs till Monday. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > p.s. Kent has already agreed to issue an update to correct a = discrepancy in the drafts. > p.p.s. Authors please indicate if you are aware of any IPRs. We need = that for each draft and from each author. >=20 >> On Jul 10, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Mehmet Ersue > wrote: >>=20 >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> =20 >> we hereby issue WG Last Call for 3 weeks for the drafts below:=20 >> =20 >> SSH/TLS Client Server Models: >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 = >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 = =20= >> NETCONF/RESTCONF Client Server Models: >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 = = =20 >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 = = >> =20 >> =20 >> Please review and send your comments to NETCONF WG mailing list by = July 31, 2017 EOB PT (extended duration because of IETF #99 in between). >> Please be aware that these drafts are planned to publish as standard = track documents. >> =20 >> We would like to ask WG members to state explicitly that you have = read/reviewed and whether you support the publication of the drafts. >> Please indicate also if you plan to implement or have already = implementation experience with these drafts. >> =20 >> Authors:=20 >> Please indicate with an email on the maillist explicitly whether you = are aware or you are not aware of any IPRs related to the drafts. >> =20 >> PS: Next in the row are the YANG-Push draft set going to WGLC after = IETF #99 meeting. >> =20 >> Thank you, >> Mehmet and Mahesh >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_5D0B642E-C0D4-44C9-AC2C-7AD5D3FC8953 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The WGLC ended on Monday unsuccessfully. The show of support = that these drafts had in the WG meeting in Prague did not materialize on = the mailing list.

The = authors will take the current crop of comments, address them and post an = updated I-D. We will resume the LC at that time.

Thanks.
On = Jul 26, 2017, at 9:01 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

WG,

During the meeting at = IETF 99, there were several hands that went up indicating that they had = read these documents. But as Kent noted in his presentation, he had not = received any comments - good or bad.

We would like to ask those hands that = went up and others in the WG to please indicate if they believe the = documents are ready. Silence unfortunately, does not tell us much. = Please indicate that you have concerns/no concerns/support the document. = Even a +1 for adoption is helpful. If you have concerns, please indicate = what specific concerns you have.

The LC runs till Monday.

Thanks.

p.s. Kent has already = agreed to issue an update to correct a discrepancy in the = drafts.
p.p.s. Authors please indicate if you are = aware of any IPRs. We need that for each draft and from each = author.

On Jul 10, 2017, at 9:13 AM, = Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear NETCONF WG,
 
we hereby = issue WG Last Call for 3 weeks for the drafts below: 
 
SSH/TLS = Client Server Models:
       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-serve= r-03
NETCONF/RESTCONF Client = Server Models:
       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-= server-04
 
 
Please = review and send your comments to NETCONF WG mailing list by July 31, 2017 EOB PT (extended duration because of IETF #99 in = between).
Please be = aware that these drafts are planned to publish as standard track = documents.
 
We would = like to ask WG members to state explicitly that you have read/reviewed = and whether you support the publication of the drafts.
Please indicate also if you = plan to implement or have already implementation experience with these = drafts.
 
Authors: 
Please indicate with an = email on the maillist explicitly whether you are aware or you are not = aware of any IPRs related to the drafts.
 
PS: Next in = the row are the YANG-Push draft set going to WGLC after IETF #99 = meeting.
 
Thank = you,
Mehmet and = Mahesh
 
_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing = list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_5D0B642E-C0D4-44C9-AC2C-7AD5D3FC8953-- From nobody Fri Aug 4 13:24:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6660A131FF9 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ojtiLAcFS31c for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F187131537 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id x3so24845362oia.1 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 13:24:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=+PLeNbgxRtMAgwV14lNq0TrGBQh/6gGjQQMZlu2OwMA=; b=tzZb3rBtc0DU/9GXcqUKZXMAr4T4DB12OzCmvP7BjNc8npVtLvkbERjO48wfGFq8KV UW5nBdQ9iLsFDtn3htMkjWv+v03Pif8R3yWiXEj6+3JUC10FO0+FtUBaL0dmq1QsmSLg dq9ivfRhj73o4HjqWAvEqU0jBufZNhco2yyd+Dnp3AQBr/wqyWdWHpM1YLRnyqQyOLbe cnkeWBllPsQaH5l/pureM6Th7jK+nuD4tLhtOcYaFJ7NosqIRBpMjCs3NGCRCGm9Bnr0 PwhPRMLQ6vtn58Wa39Cau+PyQDw8U1Y5Hawfcss/PcunDPi2wxFFH8I2TwrgqquPhQWx DnPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to; bh=+PLeNbgxRtMAgwV14lNq0TrGBQh/6gGjQQMZlu2OwMA=; b=nTrxccpRTTVbKSx6a6a65bSBmuZgEn5AmBViizUqgGGvpuXkz7JpTEbZ0UtsoRepEh w3/oPg44Jo7KOzqnDMMhMMG8k00yyPX9/lly4WeZvAtLPIDqpxcoX1wSdNQnZEPj1IUR aM3Fwc+T464dq2sa22H977qLgs0iK1wPU3GwVgv93PtU6JwXvzPTCaQ/HRFGb0ysUrag 8bF01VxLsUVykO1oCsebaP5D5xXqwwJpHuHNM8Q6O3MweZmQFXIOr9wHCzbZVIQK9XzY C8aqt45VfVOrkg6w703wgxVda6LS1dqb0D3BPp2a3KmX5Qzkyhv9Ig2EELYLk3lkvK53 4ZGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5j8BoDxWf/kVY7e/J/B/d/nW62kYqyMGQpr9/KLkHGyJ23Wrq/F U7FGxB2i7MCE5CgRcwk= X-Received: by 10.202.235.19 with SMTP id j19mr2929976oih.15.1501878255776; Fri, 04 Aug 2017 13:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.2.46] (108-247-125-249.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.125.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r10sm2290665oia.30.2017.08.04.13.24.14 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Aug 2017 13:24:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1BBCA2ED-D590-459B-AEF6-8CF53522386E" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2017 13:24:12 -0700 References: <018d01d2f124$4bbd2790$e33776b0$@gmail.com> <76CA7E47-E65D-4BF2-AA5E-3DB5441DED28@gmail.com> To: Netconf In-Reply-To: <76CA7E47-E65D-4BF2-AA5E-3DB5441DED28@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netconf-keystore and draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 20:24:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1BBCA2ED-D590-459B-AEF6-8CF53522386E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The same is true for these two drafts also. With no explicit support, we = are declaring the WGLC unsuccessful.=20 Once the authors have posted updated drafts, we will resume the LC. Thanks. > On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > The same message applies to these documents in WG LC. Even though the = LC has timed out, we are extending this by one week to get your vote in. >=20 > We saw support for these documents in the WG meeting, but we need that = support expressed on the mailing list. Note, that Kent has already = indicated that he will resolve the issue of whether to keep identifiers = in the keystore draft as part of the LC. >=20 > Authors please indicate whether you are aware of any IPRs. >=20 >> On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Mehmet Ersue > wrote: >>=20 >> Dear NETCONF WG, >> =20 >> we hereby issue a WG Last Call for 2 weeks for the drafts below:=20 >> =20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 = >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 = >> =20 >> Please review and send your comments to the NETCONF WG mailing list = by July 13, 2017 EOB PT.=20 >> Please be aware that the Keystore and Zerotouch drafts are planned to = publish as standard track documents. >> =20 >> We would like to ask WG members to state explicitly that you have = read/reviewed and whether you support the publication of the drafts. >> Please indicate also if you plan to implement or have already = implementation experience with these drafts. >> =20 >> Authors:=20 >> Please indicate with an email on the maillist explicitly whether you = are aware or you are not aware of any IPRs related to the drafts. >> =20 >> PS: Next in the row are the 4 client-server drafts going to WGLC on = July 10th. >> =20 >> Thank you, >> Mehmet and Mahesh >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_1BBCA2ED-D590-459B-AEF6-8CF53522386E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The same is true for these two drafts also. With no explicit = support, we are declaring the WGLC unsuccessful. 

Once the authors have posted updated = drafts, we will resume the LC.

Thanks.
On = Jul 26, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

The same = message applies to these documents in WG LC. Even though the LC has = timed out, we are extending this by one week to get your vote in.

We saw support for these = documents in the WG meeting, but we need that support expressed on the = mailing list. Note, that Kent has already indicated that he will resolve = the issue of whether to keep identifiers in the keystore draft as part = of the LC.

Authors please indicate whether you are aware of any = IPRs.

On Jun 29, 2017, at 6:08 PM, = Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear NETCONF WG,
 
we hereby = issue a WG Last Call for 2 weeks for the drafts below: 
 
 
Please review and send your = comments to the NETCONF WG mailing list by July 13, 2017 EOB PT. 
Please be aware that the = Keystore and Zerotouch drafts are planned to publish as standard track = documents.
 
We would = like to ask WG members to state explicitly that you have read/reviewed = and whether you support the publication of the drafts.
Please indicate also if you = plan to implement or have already implementation experience with these = drafts.
 
Authors: 
Please indicate with an = email on the maillist explicitly whether you are aware or you are not = aware of any IPRs related to the drafts.
 
PS: Next in = the row are the 4 client-server drafts going to WGLC on July 10th.
 
Thank = you,
Mehmet and = Mahesh
 
_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing = list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_1BBCA2ED-D590-459B-AEF6-8CF53522386E-- From nobody Fri Aug 4 14:21:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2895B12700F; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 14:21:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150188166913.18693.10522142926326000130@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 14:21:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-03.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2017 21:21:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Restconf and HTTP Transport for Event Notifications Authors : Eric Voit Ambika Prasad Tripathy Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Alexander Clemm Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-03.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-08-04 Abstract: This document defines Restconf, HTTP2, and HTTP1.1 bindings for the transport of Subscription requests and corresponding push updates. Being subscribed may be either publisher defined event streams or nodes/subtrees of YANG Datastores. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-notif-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 00:21:50 -0000 DQpDdXJyZW50bHksIC9rZXlzdG9yZS9rZXlzL2tleS9wdWJsaWMta2V5IGlzIGNvbmZpZyBmYWxz ZS4gIEkgdGhvdWdodCB0aGF0DQppdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBva2F5LCBiYXNlZCBvbiBteSB0aGlua2lu ZyB0aGF0IHB1YmxpYyBrZXlzIGNhbiBiZSBkZXJpdmVkDQpmcm9tIHByaXZhdGUga2V5cy4gIEZv ciBpbnN0YW5jZSwgYW4gUlNBIHB1YmxpYyBrZXkgaXMgYSBwcm9wZXIgc3Vic2V0IA0Kb2YgYW4g UlNBIHByaXZhdGUga2V5LCBhbmQgdGh1cyBpcyBkZXJpdmFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgcHJpdmF0ZSBr ZXkuDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIsIEVDQyBrZXlzIGFwcGVhciB0byBiZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQuICBUaGUga2V5 c3RvcmUgZHJhZnQgY3VycmVudGx5IA0KdXNlcyB0aGUgRUNQcml2YXRlS2V5IHN0cnVjdHVyZSAo ZnJvbSBSRkMgNTkxNSkgdG8gZW5jb2RlIHRoZSBwcml2YXRlIA0Ka2V5cywgYW5kIHRoYXQgZHJh ZnQgc2F5cyB0aGF0IHByaXZhdGUga2V5cyBTSE9VTEQgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgcHVibGljDQprZXks IGJ1dCBsZWF2ZXMgb3BlbiB0aGUgcG9zc2liaWxpdHkgdGhhdCBpdCdzIG1heSBub3QgYmUgaW5j bHVkZWQuDQoNCkV4dHJhcG9sYXRpbmcsIGl0IHNlZW1zIHBydWRlbnQgdG8gZ28gYWhlYWQgYW5k IG1ha2UgdGhlIHB1YmxpYy1rZXkNCmxlYWYgY29uZmlnIHRydWUuICBTdXJlbHksIGFueW9uZSBj b25maWd1cmluZyBhIHByaXZhdGUta2V5IGhhcyB0aGUNCnB1YmxpYy1rZXksIHNvIGl0IHNob3Vs ZG4ndCBiZSBkaWZmaWN1bHQgdG8gc3VwcGx5Li4uDQoNCkknbGwgcGxhbiB0byBtYWtlIHRoaXMg Y2hhbmdlIGlmIG5vIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgYXJlIGV4cHJlc3NlZC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2VudA0K DQoNCg== From nobody Fri Aug 4 22:24:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1AF12ECF0 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 22:23:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fh3L0GDVw3Mo for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 22:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ADD612EC57 for ; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 22:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7BA44C3; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id E0LjW8vHPoGF; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D38200BC; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S4BAZ_AgLtCx; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3159D200BA; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 834C4400A15B; Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 07:23:51 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170805052351.GA37808@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] /keystore/keys/key/public-key: config false --> config true? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 05:23:58 -0000 On Sat, Aug 05, 2017 at 12:21:46AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Currently, /keystore/keys/key/public-key is config false. I thought that > it would be okay, based on my thinking that public keys can be derived > from private keys. For instance, an RSA public key is a proper subset > of an RSA private key, and thus is derivable from the private key. He? > However, ECC keys appear to be different. The keystore draft currently > uses the ECPrivateKey structure (from RFC 5915) to encode the private > keys, and that draft says that private keys SHOULD include the public > key, but leaves open the possibility that it's may not be included. > > Extrapolating, it seems prudent to go ahead and make the public-key > leaf config true. Surely, anyone configuring a private-key has the > public-key, so it shouldn't be difficult to supply... If you allow to write the private key, you have to allow to write the public key. I assume not all systems may allow to read/write keys (but I think you take care of this). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 7 08:14:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF73E1323F7 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:14:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Ii5B9gV_07t for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A94A01323D4 for ; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9757840026C; Mon, 7 Aug 2017 17:14:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1502118859; bh=9/ToZ8mQpbOOuvaahD6tKllsIGfKqEeCkHi+QdtEvzo=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=V2KooHMkpr4v14MMQ8+NggC5OapbVAR0cDBD/7duvY39iyjLvfE2MUsq4eB0hqatL v1R2x9zstjoMD4XFVCBHZUk15cY0SD9kTDiSZIDleFhvSWEyh63MohhDzD86rU1q6R zj5MqPICdgYA9aTHSj3g4HsE9nHL08DkkONPNIcU= To: Kent Watsen Cc: Vican Pavol , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <255a18c0-480a-981c-6c8a-933ba7b289a1@cesnet.cz> <01880FD9-6295-4F2A-8659-A22D51DBDFC3@juniper.net> From: =?UTF-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 17:13:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] notes to draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2017 15:14:27 -0000 Hi Kent, Dne 4.8.2017 v 03:32 Kent Watsen napsal(a): > Hi Radek, > > >>> - section 7.2 seems as, kind of, duplication ofsection 6.3 >>> >>> True, but the one in 6.3 includes e.g. the "NMS" to tie it >>> into the workflow examples in Section 6. There is a separate=20 >>> discussion regarding if Section 6 should be moved to the Appendix, >>> since it's not normative, but some prefer it in the draft. My only >>> thought here is that, if Section 6 were moved to the Appendix, >>> would it then be okay to keep this workflow? >> currently, 7.2 seems to be normative (device ... MUST support ...), >> but is it really the intention? I mean, are there some interoperabilit= y >> (or other) issues when device does not follow (or somehow modify) >> the boot sequence? Since 6.3 and 7.2 describe the same part of the >> process, why one is supposed to be normative and the other non- >> normative? But after all, I'm actually fine with keeping 7.2 in >> document, I'm just trying to simplify readers' life :) > Others have raise questions regarding Section 6, e.g. if it should be i= n > the Appendix or not. I agree that this segment seems repetitive, but > the question for you is, is it helpful, in a non-normative sense, towar= ds > understanding the solution as a whole, or is it truly unhelpful altoget= her? > Please advise. Section 6 is definitely helpful, so please keep it at least at appendix. = Even with section 6 in appendix, I don't think that 7.2 should be necessa= ry - even in case the sequence is modified, the zerotouch mechanism can b= e still used by the device and there will be no interoperability issue. I= t is very helpful to have some description how the author believed it sho= uld work (sec 6/appendix), but I believe that in this case it can be "jus= t" inspiration for developers, not something that MUST be supported. > >>> - at several places there is a note about sending notification about >>> the bootstrap process to the bootstrap server. I was wondering how >>> RESTCONF client is sending notification to the RESTCONF server, >>> finally at one place there is note that it sends "notification" >>> action, so then I was clear, but naming action "notification" maybe >>> confusing :)It would be great if some other name could be used for >>> that. >>> yes, this was mentioned by others as well, but your idea to >>> rename the action is new. I think the action was called "progress- >>> notification" before, which I had shortened for brevity. Other >>> ideas might be "bootstrap-status" or maybe "status-update". Do you >>> have a suggestion? >> I would prefer to use some verb form - update-status, report-status, >> change-status > Verb-form for RPC/action names are goodness. I wonder if rfc6187bis=20 > should say anything about it. As for the name itself, I don't think > "status" connotes the right meaning. Here, the device is providing > a progress update...so how about "update-progress"? ok, goodand also good point about rfc6187bis > > >>>> ietf-zerotouch-information@2017-06-19.yang >>>> >>>> - onboarding-information/boot-image/* - is it necessary to >>>> have it mandatory? I can imagine use cases when there is no >>>> boot image and the only bootstrap data needed is the >>>> configuration anydata content. >>> I think that it needs to be mandatory because how scripts >>> are written and configuration is constructed may depend on the >>> version of software running on the device. Of course, if the >>> software running on the device already matches the expected >>> software-version, then the software-update progress would be a >>> no-op. Maybe we could provide the match as a regex instead to, >>> for instance, say that any minor-version of a specific major- >>> release is okay (see next comment) >> ok, but then it is software version / release, boot-image seems >> confusing to me. I would be fine with keeping the name for the >> container, but descriptions should be more general - "boot image" >> can be just a software package in a repository and hash-algorithm >> does not make sense then. ok, it can be augmented with key to >> verify repository/package, but the name could be even git hash >> and then what is the mandatory hash-algorithm? > I'm not following you entirely here. I'm purposely using boot-image > (as opposed to software-image) as I'm trying to differentiate the > OS-software from optional packages that might be installed on top > of the OS. But even then, it's not just the OS (e.g., linux), but > some software build that includes the OS + some core set of packages > that is ultimately represented as a software build version (e.g., > 17R3.1b3). It's just a naming issue. In my understanding, "image" is a complete set = of software, so when applied I'm getting the complete sw environment from= some template/sample. So it fits for products provided as boxes (e.g. ho= me router, NAS, ...), but there are use cases when the NETCONF server is = just an additionally installed software. So, the boot-image is just the N= ETCONF server (optionally together with some other software tightly conne= cted with it) package to be updated and then the "image", as I understand= it, does not fit much.But probably just clarifying the intention in desc= ription would be enough. > > >>>> - onboarding-information/boot-image/name - there is a note about >>>> regexp - no, the naming convention can very vary for different >>>> vendors/use cases, keep it without pattern >>> The idea of the regex is to be able to match any vendor- >>> specific format. For instance, for JUNOS, I might write=20 >>> "17.2R[1-4].*" to match all 17.2-based 'R' release between 1 and 4. >> ok, I misunderstood it, I actually thought you want to add pattern >> to its string type. There can be an issue with selecting regexp >> variant (there will be always someone willing to use a different >> one). Since the value is highly device/software-specific (I can't=20 >> imagine using the same value for JUNOS and CISCO IOS), I would >> probably avoid precise specification of the regexp format and >> prefer just to mention regexp possibility in description but let >> the regexp support implementation-specific. > Okay, but before getting to the details of a regex format, we should > discuss if it's a good idea at all. The safest (most conservative) > thing is to always have an exact match (no regex). Allowing the=20 > value to encode a range of revisions means that matches might occur > more often (e.g., 17.2R[1-4]), thereby negating the need for the > device to download/install a new boot-image, but it has the cost of > something going wrong. For instance, maybe 17.2R4 broke compatibility > in some way that causes the bootstrap to fail. Of course, in=20 > production environments, I'd expect all the variations supported by > the regex expression to be tested and, of course, a regex can also > be a simple string for those that don't want the ambiguity. Thoughts? as I stated - let it implementation-specific, so allow generic strings. I= n this case the client must know the server details anyway, since it spec= ifies the compatible version of the server's software so it should know h= ow the specific string will be evaluated by the server. Radek > =20 > > >>>> ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server@2017-06-19.yang >>>> >>>> - /device/unique-id - is the unique really necessary? I mean ID >>>> is widely understood as unique and in the schema it is defined >>>> as key, so I believe that just id would be fine >>> this field-name is a somewhat a holdover from before. =20 >>> Since then, the draft has essentially turned to using "serial >>> number" as its unique id (per DevID). But, since serial-numbers >>> may not be unique across manufacturers, a unique-id may need to >>> be constructed using the 2-tuple [manufacturer, serial-number]. >>> It is up to each manufacturer to determine if this is needed >>> for themselves. >> ok, probably I should study harder about the DevID, IDevID and >> serial numbers differences because I'm getting lost :) > It is pretty involved, but reading 802.1AR-2009, which defines the > DevID, is highly recommended for LC reviewers of this draft. > > > Thanks again, > Kent > > > > From nobody Wed Aug 9 01:55:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9AD1320BD for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2017 01:55:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Junod does this. WHoi has rread the drtaft? it iwll be done sonn somewhre. You are saying that it should be doen in a so called design team to get a new yang push draft? netconf to IPFIX, it is a lot to be learnet there. Perhaps voice recognition is not with us yet. Tom Petch > > Cheers, > Kent // co-chair > > > On 7/24/17, 1:51 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Kent Watsen" on behalf of kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > Could folks please review/update the raw minutes? > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-99-netconf?useMonospace Font=true. > > Presenters in particular should review the minutes for their presentations. FWIW, I > did this for the YANG Library presentation yesterday and found a need for a number > clarifications there. > > Cheers, > Kent // as co-chair > > > On 7/24/17, 12:18 AM, "Netconf on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani" on behalf of mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > > Below is the NETCONF WG session summary and AIs that were taken from the IETF 99 meeting. > > This e-mail verifies the discussion that took place in the room. Barring any strong objection, the AIs identified in this summary will be acted upon. > > The NETCONF session took place on Thursday, July 20, 2017, between 15:50-17:50 CET. > > - We had approx. 55+ participants in the 2 hour NETCONF session, > - We reviewed the status of the WG, > - We had a discussion on chartered and non-chartered documents. > > The raw notes from the meeting are available at: > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-99-netconf?useMonospace Font=true > > > * Zerotouch draft is going through a LC. Minor issues will be addressed with an update. The WG thinks it can go forward to the next step. (note in the meeting notes there is a note about ‘choice’ statement containing ‘container’ statements which is flagged as an error by both yumapro and pyang. Kent believes that it should not be an error per RFC 7950. Need it resolved). > * Keystore draft needs to be updated for issues raised in WGLC. A new WGLC might become necessary if there are substantial changes i.e. because of a necessary separate module for identifiers. > * SSH/TLS NETCONF/RESTCONF Client Server Models are in WGLC. Drafts had received zero comments. That concerns AD and co-chairs, who have asked the WG to review and comment on them on the mailing list. > * YANG push and Subscribed notifications drafts needs to be updated for the discussed issues. Other issues need discussion on the mailing list. Co-chairs will lead to WGLC based on the discussion result. > * Netconf-event notifications and Restconf notifications. These two drafts had support in the WG to go for WGLC. It will need YANG Doctors review to be started. > * The WG thinks Notification Message Headers and Bundles should be adopted as a WG item. > * YANG Library, Netconf NMDA and Restconf NMDA are part of current charter. > * YANG Library - Co-chairs will ask for adoption on the mailing list. > * Netconf NMDA needs to be updated with additional content before adopting. The discussion will continue on the mailing list. Whether get-operation gets deprecated will be decided on mailing list. Adoption call will be issued on the mailing list once an update to the draft is posted. > * Restconf NMDA is ready for adoption. Co-Chairs will call for adoption on the mailing list. > * There was not much support for the accounting draft at this time. But it was agreed that more discussion was needed. > * The room was in favor to work on Netconf proxy with a few hands. A call will be initiated on the mailing list. > * Several hands were in favor of working on UDP based Publication Channel, which is in the focus of the charter and can be done together with the YANG Push draft set. Co-Chairs will check when a call for adoption can be initiated. > > Mahesh Jethanandani (for co-chairs). > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Wed Aug 9 09:03:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B401323CB for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2017 09:02:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FAKE_REPLY_C=1.486, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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This may indeed be an accurate minute of what the Chair said but the new IPR policy is in RFC 8179. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "t.petch" To: "Kent Watsen" ; "Mahesh Jethanandani" ; "Netconf" Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 9:18 AM > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Kent Watsen" > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2017 1:15 AM > > > Thanks to all that took the time to review the minutes. > > The minutes have now been posted: > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/materials/minutes-99-netconf > > Mmmm the spelling and grammar look a little quirky, such as > > I support thois work. Junod does this. > WHoi has rread the drtaft? > it iwll be done sonn somewhre. > You are saying that it should be doen in a so called design team to get > a new yang push draft? > netconf to IPFIX, it is a lot to be learnet there. > > Perhaps voice recognition is not with us yet. > > Tom Petch > > > > > Cheers, > > Kent // co-chair > > > > > > On 7/24/17, 1:51 PM, "Netconf on behalf of Kent Watsen" > on behalf of > kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote: > > > > Could folks please review/update the raw minutes? > > > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-99-netconf?useMonospace > Font=true. > > > > Presenters in particular should review the minutes for their > presentations. FWIW, I > > did this for the YANG Library presentation yesterday and found a need > for a number > > clarifications there. > > > > Cheers, > > Kent // as co-chair > > > > > > On 7/24/17, 12:18 AM, "Netconf on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani" > on behalf of > mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Below is the NETCONF WG session summary and AIs that were taken from > the IETF 99 meeting. > > > > This e-mail verifies the discussion that took place in the room. > Barring any strong objection, the AIs identified in this summary will be > acted upon. > > > > The NETCONF session took place on Thursday, July 20, 2017, between > 15:50-17:50 CET. > > > > - We had approx. 55+ participants in the 2 hour NETCONF session, > > - We reviewed the status of the WG, > > - We had a discussion on chartered and non-chartered documents. > > > > The raw notes from the meeting are available at: > > > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-99-netconf?useMonospace > Font=true > > > > > > * Zerotouch draft is going through a LC. Minor issues will be > addressed with an update. The WG thinks it can go forward to the next > step. (note in the meeting notes there is a note about ‘choice’ > statement containing ‘container’ statements which is flagged as an error > by both yumapro and pyang. Kent believes that it should not be an error > per RFC 7950. Need it resolved). > > * Keystore draft needs to be updated for issues raised in WGLC. A > new WGLC might become necessary if there are substantial changes i.e. > because of a necessary separate module for identifiers. > > * SSH/TLS NETCONF/RESTCONF Client Server Models are in WGLC. > Drafts had received zero comments. That concerns AD and co-chairs, who > have asked the WG to review and comment on them on the mailing list. > > * YANG push and Subscribed notifications drafts needs to be > updated for the discussed issues. Other issues need discussion on the > mailing list. Co-chairs will lead to WGLC based on the discussion > result. > > * Netconf-event notifications and Restconf notifications. These > two drafts had support in the WG to go for WGLC. It will need YANG > Doctors review to be started. > > * The WG thinks Notification Message Headers and Bundles should be > adopted as a WG item. > > * YANG Library, Netconf NMDA and Restconf NMDA are part of > current charter. > > * YANG Library - Co-chairs will ask for adoption on the mailing > list. > > * Netconf NMDA needs to be updated with additional content before > adopting. The discussion will continue on the mailing list. Whether > get-operation gets deprecated will be decided on mailing list. Adoption > call will be issued on the mailing list once an update to the draft is > posted. > > * Restconf NMDA is ready for adoption. Co-Chairs will call for > adoption on the mailing list. > > * There was not much support for the accounting draft at this > time. But it was agreed that more discussion was needed. > > * The room was in favor to work on Netconf proxy with a few hands. > A call will be initiated on the mailing list. > > * Several hands were in favor of working on UDP based Publication > Channel, which is in the focus of the charter and can be done together > with the YANG Push draft set. Co-Chairs will check when a call for > adoption can be initiated. > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani (for co-chairs). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > -------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > From nobody Wed Aug 9 10:46:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A86B13245E for ; Wed, 9 Aug 2017 10:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] 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([2001:420:c0c8:1001::48c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n12sm10144942pfa.148.2017.08.09.21.31.56 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Aug 2017 21:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5CE59745-5B8E-4250-AAAE-2ECB7DBD58B5" Message-Id: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 21:32:06 -0700 To: Netconf Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 04:32:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5CE59745-5B8E-4250-AAAE-2ECB7DBD58B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong = support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus = of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the = WG. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda/ = This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed = support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be = adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this = thread.=20 Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_5CE59745-5B8E-4250-AAAE-2ECB7DBD58B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands = indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. = Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within = the charter of the WG.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nm= da/

This = e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed = support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be = adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this = thread. 

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_5CE59745-5B8E-4250-AAAE-2ECB7DBD58B5-- From nobody Thu Aug 10 09:48:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79891323AE for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtM0yWkQtGjV for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6276A132331 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id t138so22232216wmt.1 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FLtVPIxiGymrLqNFeelhxxi+SxPriRfylhqYhumoYn8=; b=ukvX3pErkAvFawFY/xMe/9YS1xsol/T1iLVj8LITolJmXwAJNbiyQBVrY2YI/KMkE6 6aMSRt96mIUBMu7RnoE+3lEBoaLqqcejR9zndZ4pwzNYLHKlc/chcWHtmoDXkaU2fFKX IoTgsylr9RwDMv9jv5Wm9NSXYcRZBRYMY/A0ehDZtABl7PwJ3/lTXXashyiAcDkqkfAL yggfC1DWSIh6jWBwsTaEjLQNlFLa8aBLTxcEi78oviV2Wbw1PqflfiPYWG0VS8qm7DBO uwtB+RFmEmNjrkgrynf6+ZNDZxoQm7q75Fl8IPdpSnIhGjCcLv9YgJEMiW/6l5pGPRjh Murw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FLtVPIxiGymrLqNFeelhxxi+SxPriRfylhqYhumoYn8=; b=WELyMlpw62HJx7PXwRraAgO+Qav2S/1MDz9XdCSX6hrTJswjyyfwHeT8yB3d51v6uP /lzBgw63+O2MQdJvRzdOu5vdfsgwH+FEu1ORlIU1WmkLM8PTWUxSKPfV8eLqDdqrq4Lz g29fAzyt3EZkMQa/zawdPwHn8VpyJAEkgsVKZDV2xNYjIC1gUcrYP2Tw2WoKMyBWYQ4f bQWXDeYuXixlp5TkCUMVoJtdhX9tfxiqlxRMp1IZ8kFTVK19Ip0krZXIMx3cBD2xJ+a5 4LzEXPvm9/RJnxlNucsvgFC5ifDhFwSelXGdRt8GyessDqHINGFJmHfy2+snja79HXn8 22ng== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5ihvNI98/fUdB5hmCT6lG6Y8EhDIph20KbJTG6SmQSUtsIEa7rs dOUXOykqXo3+rHjtSzH93DAs34/MZn7J X-Received: by 10.28.203.78 with SMTP id b75mr7683584wmg.50.1502383720859; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.160 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <30CD19F8-6441-4EA3-A340-8CEDD6D4FD6A@juniper.net> References: <150128020275.20726.13027423171798327745@ietfa.amsl.com> <30CD19F8-6441-4EA3-A340-8CEDD6D4FD6A@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:40 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:48:46 -0000 --94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Kent, On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > >>> Modules: > >>> (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang > >>> (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang > >>> > >>> Comments: > >>> > >>> C1: > >>> > >>> (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF session" > >>> needs to be defined > >> > >> good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying > >> transport (TLS) that has a session. Fixed. But what about the > >> 'max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modules? - should > >> this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed > >> altogether? > > > > I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TLS session" > > if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF > > Fixed in my local copy. > > > >>> C2: > >>> > >>> (M1) feature tls-initiate > >>> (M1) feature tls-listen > >>> (M2) feature tls-listen > >>> (M2) feature tls-call-home > >>> > >>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > >>> the TLS transport? > >> > >> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > >> clients/servers may support. > >> > > OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, listen). > > You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > > but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. > > Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future > > versions could be different. > > I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and > 'tls-initiate' features: > > Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTCONF, > this feature helps support possible future transports."; > If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement transport, this sentence is not quite right. You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It is more expensive than if-feature on many levels. > and I also added a design note into the draft itself. > > > > Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested > > nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not clear > > how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. > > Wait, seriously? I didn't see that. I don't understand how else nested > if-feature statements can be interpreted. Can you point to the thread > where this was discussed? > > I cannot find it now. Essentially, features are not coupled to objects: container foo { if-feature A; container foo2 { if-feature AA; } } container bar { if-feature AA; } The designer has to decide: Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends on container foo? Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend on both features or can they be used independently? In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if any transport is supported, and feature listen- is a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the 2nd feature is correct. > > > So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: > > > > feature tls-listen { > > if-feature listen; > > ... > > } > > > > feature tls-listen { > > if-feature listen; > > ... > > } > > I went ahead and made this change, it seems better. > > > > >>> C3: > > > > Change it to be TLS session > > Done. > > > > >>> C4: > > > > OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case for > Connection: close. > > Correct. > > > > >>> C5: > > > > It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe > POST > > to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > > Okay, how about this? > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > close the connection when it is ready to release it. > Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > restarts its timer until the next connection."; > > > Not sure this is needed. RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > >>>C6: > >>> > >>> (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > >>> (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection- > type/periodic/ > >>> > >>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > >>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > >>> not timeout an SSE response connection > >> > >> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' leaf > >> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > >> dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > >> connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > >> from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > > > > Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time > provided) > > I think this would have to be used by the client. This tells the server > to drop > > the connection when the replay is complete. > > Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could be other > data-collection mechanisms. Still, note that when end-time provided is > reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop. This seems like a > more generic mechanism. > > > > This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > > > > POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > > > > Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > > First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to 'close- > session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and is this actually > an issue for RFC 8040? > > RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > > > >>> C7: > >>> > >>> Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams > >>> > >>> Old text should be replaced with reference to > >>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01 > >> > >> same comment as before. > > > > OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable > > Yep. > > > >>> Nits: > >>> > >>> The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings, > >>> even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts > >>> open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output, > >>> to really follow the data model structure. > >> > >> I know. Do you have a proposal? > > > > The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they > > are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module > > namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram > > should be made for uses external-grouping. > > Agreed. > > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > Andy --94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kent,


On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@ju= niper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,=

>>> Modules:
>>>=C2=A0 (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang
>>>=C2=A0 (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang
>>>
>>> Comments:
>>>
>>> C1:
>>>
>>> (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCON= F session"
>>> needs to be defined
>>
>> <KENT> good point, in this case, it's actually the under= lying
>> transport (TLS) that has a session.=C2=A0 Fixed.=C2=A0 But what ab= out the
>> 'max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modul= es?=C2=A0 - should
>> this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed
>> altogether?
>
> I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TL= S session"
> if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF

Fixed in my local copy.


>>> C2:
>>>
>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate
>>> (M1) feature tls-listen
>>> (M2) feature tls-listen
>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home
>>>
>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST = support
>>> the TLS transport?
>>
>> <KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don't k= now what
>> clients/servers may support.
>>
> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, liste= n).
> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented.
> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
> versions could be different.

I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and 'tls-initiate' features:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTC= ONF,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature helps support possible future transports.= ";


If you are tryin= g to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement
transpo= rt, this sentence is not quite right.

You know I a= m not a big fan of YANG conformance.
We have nothing in between &= quot;always mandatory" and "purely optional,
server dev= eloper's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing like conditionally
mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then<= br>
the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."
The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandato= ry conformance,
but it has to be customized for each data subtree= . It is more expensive than if-feature
on many levels.
=


and I also added a design note into the draft itself.


> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested<= br> > nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 It is no= t clear
> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.

Wait, seriously? I didn't see that.=C2=A0 I don't understand how el= se nested
if-feature statements can be interpreted.=C2=A0 Can you point to the thread=
where this was discussed?


I cannot find it now.
Essent= ially, features are not coupled to objects:

=C2=A0= container foo {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature A;
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container foo2 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-= feature AA;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 container bar {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-featur= e AA;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

The designer has to= decide:
Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depe= nds on container foo?
Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend= on both features or can they be used independently?

In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if any tran= sport is supported,
and feature listen-<transport> is a spe= cific transport is supported, so the if-feature
inside the 2nd fe= ature is correct.




> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:
>
>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature listen;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>=C2=A0 }
>
>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature listen;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
>=C2=A0 }

I went ahead and made this change, it seems better.



>>> C3:
>
> Change it to be TLS session

Done.



>>> C4:
>
> OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case fo= r Connection: close.

Correct.



>>> C5:
>
> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe = POST
> to initiate the sending of stored data like logs

Okay, how about this?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF client must
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.";



Not sure this is needed.
RES= TCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated by the client= ,
but if that changes, then no reason to constrain this text. I w= ould change
'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentenc= e.

=C2=A0

>>>C6:
>>>
>>> (M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/peri= odic/
>>> (M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/con= nection-type/periodic/
>>>
>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeo= uts.
>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The serve= r should
>>> not timeout an SSE response connection
>>
>> <KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'id= le-timeout' leaf
>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active a= re never
>> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole point= is to shed idle
>> connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants to co= llect logs
>> from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?
>
> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time= provided)
> I think this would have to be used by the client.=C2=A0 This tells the= server to drop
> the connection when the replay is complete.

Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could be other<= br> data-collection mechanisms.=C2=A0 Still, note that when end-time provided i= s
reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop.=C2=A0 This seem= s like a
more generic mechanism.


> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session<= br> >
> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?

First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 With regards to &#= 39;close-
session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF?=C2=A0 - and is this = actually
an issue for RFC 8040?



RESTCONF does not speci= fy any behavior for specific operation resources.
It is left as a= n implementation detail.=C2=A0 Our server treats each RESTCONF request
as a new management session, so a NETCONF operation like <lock>= is granted
and then released right afterwards by the server beca= use the session is terminated.
I think any standard behavior for = application layer sessions would need to be defined
in a new vers= ions of RESTCONF.





=C2=A0


>>> C7:
>>>
>>> Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams
>>>
>>> Old text should be replaced with reference to
>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01
>>
>> <KENT> same comment as before.
>
> OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable

Yep.


>>> Nits:
>>>
>>> The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings,
>>> even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts >>> open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output,
>>> to really follow the data model structure.
>>
>> <KENT> I know.=C2=A0 Do you have a proposal?
>
> The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they
> are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module
> namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram
> should be made for uses external-grouping.

Agreed.



> Andy

Kent



Andy

=C2=A0

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List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:32:40 -0000 Mahesh Jethanandani writes: >Please indicate whether you think the draft should be >adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this >thread. I support adoption of this work. Thanks, Phil From nobody Thu Aug 10 12:28:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB22124B18 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r2jB2Xy8E7ro for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com (mail-wr0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D029F13240F for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v105so6574973wrb.0 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=zMgpYIzV9Un6SmFWXih/1fWZgkin3nfA9Da2D3gEb6s=; b=du3APFnJ+A6Ugk+lvgvV/3PWwMZSWlvInVK/G4pVcBeSRLW+rfceRMmv6tgsbnqEQb 3orMZoQnGBa+Lsczxllzdd6m9dxwMaNmfVZigJ2OYzOxwHUYOnXGJ185BV9qqMpn/N16 7iZYq0cvtn4kbbVuBTsJzC7+Y6tpkWD56sJSwfc6WptNp2UbPU37KCKuuqLeNJxF0lFa 2dTxuizy4DVq3brW74SN2qD+BtDkOaLqwlxOyYvA0d+4+OvPOPDzw63bm2DwEEey2uT8 V1Ps5AFzhTztI2v/w/TGLPGyNtRV47zKMieoIe8VA3PFDjVLFLhVxwJT3950/pkfNYMH wXTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=zMgpYIzV9Un6SmFWXih/1fWZgkin3nfA9Da2D3gEb6s=; b=s9wt0r3QU85SRFQ7QyS/e+2Xg8BimPxgoU3fai4ROa/lIA1WiJ4KDcJLwbmSGYLcrW cwjYWXPIGxhV2EhvQJB3kSyHOhMystSqoozxAg1ZJlUa/TKGT9EUbRMt03fIqFe1rVJb 9FwJDhaIxcemE61nMqfkMIzhVebAE2zpUwXrTgK1ir7J1kmSLeNDZR09jrLdxOg0weTX NcXM+6vIODRESV+gogQjDtJQ+SkK2oo2HqhHBW0lT/pM8SE0h8twP70eKMeiX5op5DmJ msI6Qh+ghDuxnZdgYMCOYpqUEsCtPYkNpaV7i0vyIMUKi71il6NX70XQmaMSbKA7v4/h hAcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jfqgB8nmrffqeAQTBSHOxmpI8sXzc0gUIDeJPaBKVFwsXK9ri5 X5VdTrALKvGE0Q+o X-Received: by 10.223.129.180 with SMTP id 49mr10029487wra.9.1502393329119; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ (p57A77FD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.167.127.217]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g26sm4883998wrb.21.2017.08.10.12.28.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:28:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'Netconf'" References: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> <201708101832.v7AIWOlw088464@idle.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <201708101832.v7AIWOlw088464@idle.juniper.net> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 21:28:47 +0200 Message-ID: <03b401d3120e$e3a108a0$aae319e0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIIynWZbkAjJZnknaZbpVU5NROOw6ISiKmg Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:28:53 -0000 I support adoption of this work. Mehmet > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Phil Shafer > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:32 PM > To: Mahesh Jethanandani > Cc: Netconf > Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft > > Mahesh Jethanandani writes: > >Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG > >item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. > > I support adoption of this work. > > Thanks, > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Thu Aug 10 13:11:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E61132446 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, 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15.00.1210.000; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:10:22 -0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 Thread-Index: AQHTDEtc7kCbZbNjL0eCSAwesYyyZKJ+ZNmA//+8uYA= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:10:22 +0000 Message-ID: <08F8FEA9-A298-469F-9B41-849E308C713D@cisco.com> References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.199.30] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <46F6DC14846DB749BEADB87BA3F18770@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of 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11 Aug 2017 01:00:54 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.78.152] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2AE63512DGGEMM506MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.598D01CE.022D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.170, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 8dc1e4d19b4849a3f6bb5c550c1e378d Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:01:07 -0000 --_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2AE63512DGGEMM506MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Support.

 

Best Regards!

-Michael

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Mahesh Jethanandani
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2017=C4=EA8=D4=C210=C8=D5 12:32
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Netconf <netconf@= ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Netconf] WG adoption of R= ESTCONF NMDA draft

 

In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hand= s indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. = Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the c= harter of the WG.

 

 

This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it inclu= des folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think t= he draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by respond= ing to this thread. 

 

Thanks.

 

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)

 

 

 

--_000_E6BC9BBCBCACC246846FC685F9FF41EA2AE63512DGGEMM506MBXchi_-- From nobody Thu Aug 10 18:22:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F305D131CFE for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3XkxDKQKOu1X for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75F13129ABE for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DMK18157; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:22:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:22:22 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:22:14 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Netconf Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft Thread-Index: AQHTEZGj/1XUmuX0tUGrXYlvzEIQ+aJ+XS+Q Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:22:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21A23F0538NKGEML515MBXchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090205.598D06E9.007A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 354984753a9659346d671f62444c7bcc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:22:54 -0000 --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21A23F0538NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support adoption of this work. Regards, Tianran From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethana= ndani Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:32 PM To: Netconf Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong supp= ort for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus of the = draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the WG. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda/ This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed su= pport in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adop= ted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com --_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21A23F0538NKGEML515MBXchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support adoption of this w= ork.

 

Regards,

Tianran

 

 

From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:32 PM
To: Netconf
Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft

 

In the WG meeting in Prague, fo= lks by a show of hands indicated strong support for adoption of the followi= ng draft as WG item. Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, = it falls within the charter of the WG.

 

 

This e-mail is to reaffirm that= support and it includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicat= e whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with= a reason, by responding to this thread. 

 

Thanks.

 

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chai= r)

 

 

 

--_000_BBA82579FD347748BEADC4C445EA0F21A23F0538NKGEML515MBXchi_-- From nobody Thu Aug 10 23:10:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35E1132546 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:10:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2eLpses3EknH for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2624132549 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 23:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-scanvirus: By SEG_CYREN AntiVirus Engine X-scanresult: CLEAN X-MAILFROM: X-RCPTTO: X-FROMIP: 10.30.3.21 X-SEG-Scaned: 1 X-Received: unknown,10.30.3.21,20170811141008 Received: from unknown (HELO mse02.zte.com.cn) (10.30.3.21) by localhost with (AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 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Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:24:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:24:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170811142428.GD46402@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 14:24:37 -0000 On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 08:11:11PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > > > I took a look at both documents today and I am attaching my two > > reviews. Since the structure of the documents is quite similar, the > > review comments are also quite similar. > > Thanks! And, to make responding easier, I've copied/pasted both > sets of comments in below. > > Kent > > > > For the ssh-client-server draft > =============================== > > > - The overall setup is somewhat complicated but I do understand why. > > Obviously, the attempts to make things generic come with a price > > since many YANG definitions interact with other definitions that > > need to be understood. And while the end result is that we can > > configure SSH clients and servers for NETCONF, we only have a > > collection of groupings to configure a regular SSH client or > > server. Should we have an instantiation of these groupings for > > regular SSH clients and servers as well? > > I'm hoping to not have to do this, but can see that there might be > value in doing so in order to further proof-out the model. To do > this right would entail something like what Clyde did for the syslog > model in evaluating many vendor's implementations to find a common > denominator. I can imagine the WG undertaking such an analysis for > an SSH-server container, but I fail to see how it could be done for > an SSH-client container. Also, when thinking about symmetry to the > tls-client-server draft, note that the idea of creating a container > for a TLS-server doesn't make sense (which one, right?) Yes, for TLS there is no a common standalone TLS service. For SSH, there is however since SSH was created for a specific service (while TLS was created as a plugin to secure another existing service). The client question we discussed before and I tend to agree that usually a client you configure is embedded into some other functionality that likely has its own configuration, so having a grouping is OK. But since there are SSH servers out there, do we expect this ID to just provide groupings and we hope that some other module later comes along and picks up the groupings and turns them into a more general SSH server configuration model? My understanding is that NC implementations actually come in different forms, some simply running behind a regular SSH server while others come with their own integrated SSH server. Does this affect the data model? > > To create a YANG model for a regular SSH server (for system level or > > CLI access), one would have to implement the ietf-keystore model, > > write a YANG module to suitably instantiate the > > ietf-ssh-server:ssh-server-grouping and likely use some > > endpoints-container grouping (well this has not been factored out > > yet but I get to this in a different review). > > Yes, it would be an exercise like this. So you are saying I guess this is the direction you see this to evolve. > > Obviously, reusability comes with a certain price in complexity and > > I guess this is why we often had WG meetings where Kent asked > > questions but nobody felt to respond. Anyway, if we create these > > reusable components, we need to find a name for them. Saying these > > are SSH client and server models (as the title does) is likely > > confusing people since the definitions are really only meaningful if > > instantiated in other contexts. The simplest change might be to > > change the title to "YANG Groupings for SSH Clients and SSH > > Servers". > > Yes, awkward silence, and now here we are. For now, I've change > the title as suggested. I also made the similar change for the > tls-client-server draft. OK > >- The text in section 2 points out as an example X.509v3 certificate > > based host keys. I think these are far less common than regular SSH > > host keys. If so, perhaps we should use a different example? It > > might be useful to explain that X.509v3 certificate host keys are > > actually a YANG feature, i.e., not expected to be implemented > > everywhere. The example requires to understand the keystore model. > > Can a more complete example be provided that incorporates part of > > the keystore? > We could copy/paste the keystore example, but isn't the following > note just above the example good enough? > > This example is consistent with the > examples presented in Section 2.2 of [I-D.ietf-netconf-keystore]. As a reader, having to look at multiple RFCs is a bit harder. During production of the RFCs, how do we make sure things stay aligned? Well, this problem exists in any case. > > - The identities in ietf-ssh-common probably need to be moved to IANA > > and there likely need to be proper procedures for managing the > > identities. Are the identities clearly SSH specific? If not, the > > management will likely be more complex. > > Right, and this is related to the keystore identity issue as well. > https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/issues/8. Yes. > > - I think it is a good practice to introduce for every base identity a > > corresponding specific identityref type so that tree diagrams etc > > have a more readable type. The pattern is: > > > > identity foo { > > description > > "Abstract base identity for foos."; > > } > > > > typedef foo-ref { > > type identifyref { base foo; } > > description > > "A foo identity reference."; > > } > > > > And then you use foo-ref as the type in the data models that refer to > > foo identities. > > All of the identities are in the "ietf-*-common" modules (Gary, can you > please take care of this one?). That said, there's still the larger > issue of us moving all the identities into some other module. It is not clear whether one module is the answer, i.e., whether the identities are identical between security protocols or whether they traditionally all do their own little soup. If the later, then this is likely how it works in practice. So the security WGs actually coordinate when they need a new name / label for a security mechanism? If not, creating a central module is going to lead to headaches for those in charge to maintain it. > > - Security considerations: This may need some rewriting since there is > > really no data tree. The general template does not really work well > > for modules only defining reusable groupings. I think what is really > > needed here are guidelines for authors of documents using the > > groupings. Also remove text that clearly is irrelevant (there are no > > RPC so why spent a paragraph on them). > > I added this sentence (to both drafts): > > Since the modules defined in this document define only groupings, > these considerations are primarily for the designers of other > modules that use these groupings. OK > I also change "module" to "modules", since the draft defines more > than one. > > I left the "RPC" paragraph (and both the RPC and "readable nodes" > paragraphs in the tls-client-server draft). These paragraphs have > a place where a list of nodes are to be supplied. In this case, > my putting "NONE" seems to 1) preserve the template and 2) indicate > that the consideration was analyzed. This is unchartered waters > but, it seems that we'd want the considerations to be explicit in > what all it considered. Personally, I prefer to not see text that does not apply in the final document. Perhaps decorate this with an RFC editor instruction to remove the text during the final stages of the process. > > - In section 2, should there be text that says what happens if there > > is not client authentication configured or how to extend this for > > authentication types commonly found on the web for instance? > > Why should there be, isn't that a protocol-specific issue? For instance, > per comments from before, the ietf-netconf-client and ietf-restconf-client > models add 'must' statements asserting client-authentication is configured. > Is this something that should be mentioned in Security Considerations? I think it would help to spell out 'if no client auth configured, there is no client auth; if you want to always have client auth, a must statement can be used'. > > - Does the TLS server not need to know which key to use? I only see > a reference to a certificate to use. > > I don't know which node you're looking at, but there is one reference > to a certificate that is under a specific key, and there is another > reference to a set of certificates that is not associated with any key. Ah, it is a leafref to .../key/certificates/certificate - I did not catch that. > > - With web servers, things are often more complicated since you only > > know which key/certificate to use once you know which site is being > > accessed. The Server Name Indication (SNI) TLS extension [RFC 6066] > > deals with this. How could this be factored into the YANG server > > grouping? > > I'm unsure what you're saying. A client is configured to connect to a > specific site, but it doesn't know what site it will actually connect > to, and hence can't be configured to know which certificate to use? No, the server starts a TLS handshake but it does not yet know which site hosted on the server the client goes to and hence the server does not know which certificate to use. In HTTP, it is the Host: header that tells the server which virtual host you talk to. TLS happens before that and hence the TLS server either has to guess the right certificate (bad) or the TLS client uses SNI to let the server know during the TLS exchange which Host: he wants to talk to. The point here is that the assumption that a listing transport endpoint maps to a specific certificate in general is not true. > This sounds a lot like what was discussed before about configuring > NC/RC clients to authentication to call-home connections. We decided > to just support a single set of auth params that would be used for all > servers (and not define a server-id to client-auth mapping). So, this > grouping may not work well in some examples. Is it okay? Perhaps not supporting SNI is sufficient for network management purposes but then also pretty clearly the TLS groupings are not generally usable. > > - The description of the list certificate says "unordered list of > > certificates the TLS server can pick from when sending its Server > > Certificate message.". So how does the server pick the certificate? > > Is the idea that the somewhat vague text takes care of SNI? What if > > SNI is not used, which certificate is picked? How does the server > > pick the corresponding key? (Or are these certificates assumed to > > all be associated with the same key?) > > I'm looking at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#section-7.4.2: > > If the server has multiple certificates, it chooses one of them based > on the above-mentioned criteria (in addition to other criteria, such > as transport layer endpoint, local configuration and preferences, > etc.). So the server magically picks one. This may be OK for the TLS spec to say, not sure this is sufficient for a configuration spec. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 11 07:31:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBE013264E for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 07:31:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ygcv4w0yEpVy for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 07:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D4C9132643 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 07:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A70C66F; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id fWJolYHuC-dX; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B2E200BE; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hQPnQo-vXZaH; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A01200BD; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6A84F4011836; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:31:30 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Gary Wu (garywu)" Cc: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170811143130.GE46402@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Gary Wu (garywu)" , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> <08F8FEA9-A298-469F-9B41-849E308C713D@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <08F8FEA9-A298-469F-9B41-849E308C713D@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 14:31:36 -0000 On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 11:10:22PM +0000, Gary Wu (garywu) wrote: > > They are SSH-specific in that they come from the IANA registry for > the SSH protocol. It would be difficult to come up with > protocol-independent identities as different protocols have > different ideas as to an algorithm 'unit' is. For example, in SSH > you specify KEX algorithms separate from MAC algorithms, but in TLS > the combination of those plus other algorithm types constitute a > cipher suite. If we move the identities to an iana-* module, I > suppose the expectation is that every IANA number has an associated > YANG identity. In that case, do we want to have an if-feature for > every identity (there are hundreds and they are almost all > optional-to-implement)? Or do we want to get rid of if-features > altogether and let the management agent return an error when it > can't support the requested configuration? > This is what I expected (that the identities are protocol specific). Personally, I do not think it is useful to define large numbers of features and servers should reject identities not supported. The question is whether there should be config false list of identities supported so that a client does not have to do trial and error. > > - I think it is a good practice to introduce for every base identity a > > corresponding specific identityref type so that tree diagrams etc > > have a more readable type. The pattern is: > > > > identity foo { > > description > > "Abstract base identity for foos."; > > } > > > > typedef foo-ref { > > type identifyref { base foo; } > > description > > "A foo identity reference."; > > } > > > > And then you use foo-ref as the type in the data models that refer to > > foo identities. > > All of the identities are in the "ietf-*-common" modules (Gary, can you > please take care of this one?). That said, there's still the larger > issue of us moving all the identities into some other module. > > > I had suggested defining types for the leafrefs to (trusted-){keys, certs} in > the keystore module, so that modules using keystore won't need to refer to > paths in keystore and removes their coupling to the structure of keystore. > There isn't as big a benefit to encapsulating identityrefs. The node > identifiers are descriptive of their type and I kind of like knowing that a type > is an identityref without referring to the typedef, but I think a case can be > made for consistency. > I agree that identities for the references into the keystore lists are even more useful. > > We haven't explored virtual hosting. I think the server grouping could be used > as it currently is, because each virtual host could have a separate TLS > configuration, although I don't know if any real-world implementations support > the full set of TLS configurations for each virtual host. > > Here's a hypothetical web server config, the SNI would be inferred from > 'server-name', which is an application-level config. > > e.g.: > > true > 0.0.0.0 > 443 > > foo.com > > foo_cert_1 > foo_cert_2 > > > > bar.org > > bar_cert_1 > bar_cert_2 > > > > > This might work. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 11 16:09:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81A54132199 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:09:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0A2DE7606AC05E458CD7AD3BA8C6F2D6@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Aug 2017 23:19:38.2587 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1475 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 23:19:43 -0000 SGkgVG9tLA0KDQoNCj4gTXkgbW9kZWwgaXMgdGhhdCBhcmUgZGlmZmVyZW50IHdheXMgb2YgYXJy aXZpbmcgYXQgYSBwdWJsaWMga2V5IGJ1dCB0aGF0DQo+IG9uY2UgeW91IGhhdmUsIHRoZW4gdGhl IGNyeXB0b2dyYXBoeSBpcyB0aGUgc2FtZSwgd2l0aCBhIGNob2ljZSBvZg0KPiBhbGdvcml0aG1z 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IGEgc3BlY2lmaWMgZXhhbXBsZSBpbiBtaW5kICggSSBsaWtlIFBBS0UgYnV0IGRvDQo+IG5vdCBz ZWUgaXQgaW4gdXNlKS4NCj4NCj4gU28gdGhlIG9ubHkgcGFydCBpbiBjb21tb24gaXMgd2hhdCB5 b3UgZG8gb25jZSB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0aGUgcHVibGljIGtleSwNCj4gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IG11Y2gu DQoNCkknbSB1bnN1cmUgd2hhdCBjaGFuZ2UgeW91J3JlIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIHdpdGggdGhpcyBj b21tZW50Lg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCktlbnQNCg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Sat Aug 12 01:22:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27005132707 for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 01:22:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d7gilHoJqVEp for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 01:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBA7C1324E5 for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 01:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85AE83B; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id YUCtvVZcegS4; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620A8200BE; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8QMlnMm5h0kT; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A19200BD; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3BB6840121AC; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:22:33 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170812082233.GA46926@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170804084238.GA36641@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 08:22:40 -0000 On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 11:09:08PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > - authors and copyright year > > > > These seem to be out of sync in the YANG contact statement. > > You made a similar statement for the SSH/TLS modules. I'm not sure > why these lists need to be in-sync. For instance, your "contribution" > is the "cert-maps" structure from back when you were working on > rfc5539bis. It makes sense to add you to the server yang modules that > use it, and maybe promote you to draft-author for it, but it wouldn't > make sense to add you as an author on the client yang modules that > don't use the cert-maps structure. Or maybe we should add everybody > everywhere? I don't really care, I'm just trying to understand the > rules for such things. Perhaps we should remove Authors from YANG > modules altogether, much like we removed WG Chairs before? [I just > noticed that you weren't actually listed in the server modules - fixed] > The core of a YANG data model RFC is the YANG data model and hence by default I assume RFC author == YANG data model author and I assumed an editing glitch here like with the tls/ssh drafts. This is why I wrote the comment. I am fine to be removed from these documents; the fact that cert-maps are reused does not make me a co-author. My involvement goes back to draft-kwatsen-netconf-server-00 (January 2014) and I think even this was an offspring from some other work, call home maybe. But again, I am happy to not be co-author of this since these documents have been reorganized and rearranged N times during the years anyway and I have not been deeply involved in the last iterations. > > - 3.1 Tree Diagram - What does this tell me? > > > > Just the container is displayed below, but there is also a grouping > > that the container is using. > > I'm trying to say that the tree output is from: > pyang -f tree > Not: > pyang -f tree --tree-print-groupings OK. Not sure it is necessary to say that since tree diagrams by default show the groupings expanded I think. I do not know whether the official tree diagram formats will have ways to show say a container with used groupings collapsed. This may actually be useful sometimes but this is not what you are look for here either. I am thinking about +--rw container +-u-- +--rw regular-leaf Clearly, this is for a different threat... > > - Is the listening address really optional? Which address is used if > > the leaf is not present? I think the description text is confusing > > ('of the interfaces' and 'all interfaces') and I would rather make > > the address mandatory. How about: > > > > mandatory true; > > description > > "The IP address of the endpoint to listen on. Please note that > > some addresses have special meanings (e.g., '0.0.0.0' and '::')."; > > > When not specified, the default is for the system to listen to all > interfaces, which we should have a way to do. I don't know if special > addresses are defined anywhere. I rewrote the description to say that > *some* addresses may have similar meanings on *some* systems: > > "The IP address to listen on for incoming call-home > connections. The RESTCONF server will listen on > all interfaces if no value is specified. Please > note that some addresses may have similar meanings > on some systems (e.g., '0.0.0.0' and '::')."; > > Are these special addresses defined anywhere? Are there systems where listening on 0.0.0.0 does not mean all IPv4 addreses and to listening to :: does not mean all IPv6 addresses? I rather have this not optional and use 0.0.0.0 and ::. If you write 'all interfaces', does this mean IP interfaces (likely yes), does it mean both IPv4 and IPv6 interfaces (unclear), and if so, can I expect a single socket using a magic mapping or can I expect two sockets with separate address families? I think all this can be avoided by making this leaf mandatory and using the ANY addresses. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sat Aug 12 23:35:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3951324ED for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xV_Ipy6yf2Rz for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72CA313251B for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id y129so30026944pgy.4 for ; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=ejsXiwisxnxlVZbTj0ERnNwvkBXg6oUIeY30i5dhupE=; b=nDKJOXc+oGRxbT46bS9Gc1x6jtX5fPUXPr7djcx2BQIMIVtZ11WFnpjdlmjtjJjN9y cGkKfLhVVwPNBl7Ct4QlH2icCpz0LvblQmoCI45lg0wRxF2OdDHmVb/UQ42t9AtFjse8 3WE9ipjCSxcNenhSCaEZXpNAhEuBy4fId2iNqwV98LWMIjmFTIxhZFDXsrqmXU4wM92U 7OFpwxpqM5ABLRqdMBwOxjiIYz/xnAH3iTc2zi9zvNVhcAsdiWgZ8zcCywmnFnCuQsMy h0T9KOCGRR9GS3rX0iwamz6GJteJYYvGzrtz8Uxlu+iszfgej537QXA5lJ9pBuXXiVwb sibQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to; bh=ejsXiwisxnxlVZbTj0ERnNwvkBXg6oUIeY30i5dhupE=; b=sM122gbQZNL6yHIg3vQbt+nfRu5lIQ+DRDdLvFkGRu5tNlPuQef8/315gGzlIzy3fr lTZiZtT25xrZfitXZJrAGWbqwQxIbn5KhGxa5mBp2h817IzI+HtHKdQv7GxmtEOSXZSx Tpo99p0GJa+aE6f5URhDE7VGFEJiQS24WD3U09f3hsJqI3THolbillR3tju712iYIpLq YZQVzUxQETYb97dUgkT/uJ6dfgGLp+SeYWt/QV9g3zOv7L0fxujAwvANfz4U7iC2VlO9 6RkFwW3wxKf1g9prOyN1/UNNJv0uAiaToERznEZaV7bDnVCWoa0OOH7DNj3PW98vmR+n MXWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jkYH6jlq65FV6v7qSXi3KrhkRcF0IYqDH41IssN/iF8ynzqU4P Ze/SvxCdK7QME9sydWk= X-Received: by 10.84.194.34 with SMTP id g31mr23807276pld.24.1502606146901; Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc-mahesh-nitro6.cisco.com ([128.107.241.168]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o73sm9160926pfj.1.2017.08.12.23.35.44 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_767F230C-0CC4-4161-BA91-A66355FA154A" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2017 23:35:45 -0700 References: To: Netconf In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG LC for draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 06:35:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_767F230C-0CC4-4161-BA91-A66355FA154A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As part of the LC issued back in April, the chairs had asked for the = authors to indicate if they are aware of any IPR. In the long discussion = that followed, that request got lost. Can each of the authors = individually indicate if they are aware of any IPRs. Also if anyone is aware of any implementations of this draft, please = indicate that too. Thanks. > On Apr 18, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > NETCONF WG, >=20 > In IETF 98, the authors indicated that the above draft was ready for = Last Call, and the consensus in the room indicated as much. >=20 > This is a start of a 2 week WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis. After two weeks, the document will be = assigned a shepherd, and the document will be prepared for IESG. >=20 > The latest version of the draft can be found at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-01 = >=20 > Please review and send any comments to the WG mailing list or by = responding to this e-mail. Comments can be statements such as, I = read/reviewed the document and believe it is ready for publication, or I = have concerns about the document. For the latter, please indicate what = your concerns are.=20 >=20 > Any reports on implementation status or plans to implement are also = very useful. >=20 > Authors, please indicate if you are aware of any IPRs related to the = draft. >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > Mahesh and Mehmet >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_767F230C-0CC4-4161-BA91-A66355FA154A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii As part of the LC issued back in April, the chairs had asked = for the authors to indicate if they are aware of any IPR. In the long = discussion that followed, that request got lost. Can each of the authors = individually indicate if they are aware of any IPRs.

Also if anyone is aware of any = implementations of this draft, please indicate that too.

Thanks.

On Apr 18, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Mahesh = Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

NETCONF WG,

In IETF 98, the authors indicated that the = above draft was ready for Last Call, and the consensus in the room = indicated as much.

This is a start of a 2 week WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis. After two weeks, the document will be = assigned a shepherd, and the document will be prepared for IESG.

The latest version of the draft can be found = at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-01

Please review and send any comments to = the WG mailing list or by responding to this e-mail. Comments can be = statements such as, I read/reviewed the document and believe it is = ready for publication, or I have concerns about the document. For the = latter, please indicate what your concerns are. 

Any reports on implementation status or plans to implement = are also very useful.

Authors, please indicate if you are aware of any IPRs related = to the draft.

Thanks.

Mahesh and Mehmet



Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_767F230C-0CC4-4161-BA91-A66355FA154A-- From nobody Sun Aug 13 10:53:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856AB13256C for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MtX-V_upPYVI for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E87113250A for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f15so27811489wmg.1 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8lWWiFMwhz+wRQMrLDTWFzCcf1si5IUlAHv8UmvmR0c=; b=nAIWgn2U52RMdD6ZbfEwMquMPZWb5M7QVuh83gjX+i9O0FLxzwJJVIyYOlTe1BKpdU IAoem0vvOkwd/OIHeqkagV9qrsvJ4bgOaAsI0Zfo8nrqweeByzkNNrECU+vDkvw+nCn6 KoigLbp3IwaCYawR3SR28VNuCRFcNbrYu4xfaVyf1PAFeinH7twmCvgZkbi6EvRXpSOu sYx4HZvYTx/EPR79w4LDohXc5yNm4qpR3g541k4w6DQQZIDUdszk/kSpWMT9vOb9jJQS mwtURmSJODfvCU3HpxG6COIQEcgAR4ZtnuNTTklnu5k1SkXXf6vNNwbGoMU8AVabfNo7 8LLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8lWWiFMwhz+wRQMrLDTWFzCcf1si5IUlAHv8UmvmR0c=; b=WYaaEZfVgmDIzpQMv9ZD4u2QJebduViM26glyGl3cJ//jfZL8HNOBA63EkY84IwDWP DTP5N6S2Lhu0fICotJqmlq4rPqUxtNJ/t7BmLIMz/jbswhv57WvGuBY21j1Nwg7uWqBh uUaybiHuWHZ8pu4giPS1T1AsC3H+s0tv64xIqDJUrpo4x5EnXqXD6pb6OdTjrr1950Kh lTY4MG9Zs42NLue86TXHUsfTsEMpbBfrTTaWUWtqhJQmh5RTyNGBdPR825idSDH59apJ afXIO9PhsWD1MJRsrd4WRaIrC2L0nxpuWfpUfQr8KMLRvrCgt7bg2dwhhHjmA7QVG9P4 BYWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5joSUOC8az4vOdPHRzfIZQQAywfcEH6hYfQ9CZKTDvECGMGaEA4 Ey/lVaNLwStgcygBM07I241R74bvjbQj X-Received: by 10.28.165.65 with SMTP id o62mr3528740wme.154.1502646775543; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.160 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Bierman Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:52:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b41ce47e75a0556a63754" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG LC for draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:52:59 -0000 --001a114b41ce47e75a0556a63754 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. The YumaWorks server implements this module for NETCONF, RESTCONF, and YANG 1.1 actions. Support for nested (YANG 1.1) notifications is not yet supported. Andy On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani < mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote: > As part of the LC issued back in April, the chairs had asked for the > authors to indicate if they are aware of any IPR. In the long discussion > that followed, that request got lost. Can each of the authors individually > indicate if they are aware of any IPRs. > > Also if anyone is aware of any implementations of this draft, please > indicate that too. > > Thanks. > > On Apr 18, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani > wrote: > > NETCONF WG, > > In IETF 98, the authors indicated that the above draft was ready for Last > Call, and the consensus in the room indicated as much. > > This is a start of a 2 week WG Last Call for > draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis. After two weeks, the document will be > assigned a shepherd, and the document will be prepared for IESG. > > The latest version of the draft can be found at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-01 > > Please review and send any comments to the WG mailing list or by > responding to this e-mail. Comments can be statements such as, I > read/reviewed the document and believe it is ready for publication, or I > have concerns about the document. For the latter, please indicate what your > concerns are. > > Any reports on implementation status or plans to implement are also very > useful. > > Authors, please indicate if you are aware of any IPRs related to the draft. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh and Mehmet > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > --001a114b41ce47e75a0556a63754 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am not aware of any IPR related t= o this document.
The YumaWorks server implements this module for = NETCONF,
RESTCONF, and YANG 1.1 actions. Support for nested (YANG= 1.1)
notifications is not yet supported.


Andy

=
On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 11:35 PM, Mahesh Jet= hanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:
As part of the L= C issued back in April, the chairs had asked for the authors to indicate if= they are aware of any IPR. In the long discussion that followed, that requ= est got lost. Can each of the authors individually indicate if they are awa= re of any IPRs.

Also if anyone is aware of any implement= ations of this draft, please indicate that too.

Than= ks.

On Apr 18, 2017, at 5:3= 4 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

NETCONF WG,

In IETF 98, the authors indicated that the a= bove draft was ready for Last Call, and the consensus in the room indicated= as much.

This is a start of a 2 week WG Last Call for d= raft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis. After two weeks, the document will be assigne= d a shepherd, and the document will be prepared for IESG.

The latest= version of the draft can be found at:
https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-01

Please rev= iew and send any comments to the WG mailing list or by responding to this e= -mail. Comments can be statements such as, I read/reviewed the document=C2= =A0and believe it is ready for publication, or I have concerns about the do= cument. For the latter, please indicate what your concerns are.=C2=A0
Any reports on implementation status or plans to implement are also=C2=A0= very useful.

Authors, please indicate if you are aware o= f any IPRs related to the draft.

Thanks.

Ma= hesh and Mehmet



Mahesh Jethanandani




_____________________________= __________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a114b41ce47e75a0556a63754-- From nobody Sun Aug 13 21:19:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40719124234 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24c9Kj5oTfFq for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40734124217 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LAPTOPR7T053C2 ([73.71.191.170]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LmdAz-1d8KKR0q71-00aBZb; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 06:19:28 +0200 From: "Alexander Clemm" To: "'Mahesh Jethanandani'" , "'Netconf'" References: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:27 -0700 Message-ID: <024901d314b4$86088350$921989f0$@clemm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_024A_01D31479.D9AA2080" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFHOLEvyKzt3lNcLGBiDuASk2FLP6Oa9zPw Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Cm4kKVTQntTtbi5/EdRGyDcmYHxwXvuSIs7j66Dm+ydTXv0/Y+t 6ryzhhi5+VIIQwWO25TCSwbm7G2dfoOXPBbL8PyL3y5OS35UZAkfjL8Bs2o5f86Rk2BuFz4 I4ucR5Pk9qm5Eo2lHNu+BqFSdrKgWLitUMYLNSpaHiJoxxezMNNiJzX++JaW/hYyrpSC8Hy UC2XN2S3Pf1v8l58GLPbQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:Nz3e4CM6lFA=:JvO7IVKKoEA3ITYwTQMYLV 7fxHqSwy57T9ih03IfMqjNUML10WSW53y6h8vwjAwkxtwDuBM3LBTr9yz1+bc/mr8S8DSlnHP bV+yD46RSZ210VLny3FP22cC+eTxNahEDRn01Sk8ypFTqRsQH3y7YQUABx3Km3MJFhdHlCBv7 qbaZ64AnGhvuhaQbSdC+cOG9DhsrLuv523dzpPCRga5oOXY0JClNs5fJbM46Ae5WfhH/LNM9Y Xw7/Sq90wCYrWE/4L8O5jDD4cx9Chg3uDBQKHV/C0wtXYVxDf6WrOpf0IbR28gjMbBbbTTHGO M/hABQzTlMBewN3LtBx4iEBLdobin53hYLKVz0+uYjoNtw7afiecZBZ25QeqKMdRL9jouhAzY XVAX6v2WHqIdi1JD2IT4j08UR1bRRocRsE3B3EnkeRJQ91WMN16ObZBNUb60Cz4Q1Dr9L8KrW jFyvce3WWAPSQz8ObaBXt/WrJT6VnEavBMwls5t4mZYo1seHTTCnSwrDFR9uoUwAAz6i68jGu Ag2L/KVCbRq671yQKFjYBHGOjPGnlF7ZMzZqfw1HF9ueNzOF6cJtFgdnH40nU/qt5vT1aZLMT 4D0j2DGP8PX/GJ6gOfnmPeL35LWtp9RmVL4wYmggkiJWDSh0DM+Z6WnBG7xH8tD2xpBHnvhyi GKc/D52WxRPwPjtoJ7ZoiJs4bMj1hz67ifmsBgKjtUMV75VZ2ayhuASwiu2KNLBsf9fpYc1+/ 7hW0wyXdS/mDZIoRhcILe0cmi3r6WUqDFBUSr+EvhvPVPqTJavq3ux/0ZJ4= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 04:19:32 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D31479.D9AA2080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Support --- Alex From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:32 PM To: Netconf Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the WG. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda/ This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D31479.D9AA2080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support

--- = Alex

 

From: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh = Jethanandani
Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 9:32 = PM
To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA = draft

 

In the WG = meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for = adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus of the draft = is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the = WG.

 

 

This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it = includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you = think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, = by responding to this thread. 

 

Thanks.

 

Mahesh Jethanandani (as = co-chair)

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_024A_01D31479.D9AA2080-- From nobody Sun Aug 13 21:19:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74581124217 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e-kIvV0idrsH for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 401D212420B for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LAPTOPR7T053C2 ([73.71.191.170]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MVtZm-1e5MsJ391k-00X6Tw; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 06:19:27 +0200 From: "Alexander Clemm" To: "'Mahesh Jethanandani'" , "'Netconf'" References: <66F1DC3A-CA57-4C3F-BE68-80A1761A055C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <66F1DC3A-CA57-4C3F-BE68-80A1761A055C@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:19:27 -0700 Message-ID: <024401d314b4$85c40040$914c00c0$@clemm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0245_01D31479.D965C480" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHpyKl7wdX89UF6QpLbC6TDMV+8IaJV16qQ Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:hkw3dY6fMUFASjEbY7C6ynKJg/rypy6liWQUyi95X7nKcJZFTBe Lr/Kk2XqCtwAAqu5K80v/l0lU6Onnwotc9EAirZ+TPNLEV4rvsN1Cslz7SCJ5ZLAAGTSagF 3RQK870oHvhaTEBtQfjUPNWyLZ1LEK7X+7oC72PcPV/CbJRPfkbVtxO6zFWro9IFil9pyCT 8x0rZwbWdyqr/5agn/jnQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KipIz+7i8Ew=:lfgx1tmIEGQxi2ZqC4P9W9 uJa99LkG6brsZZleaoQsSzFkpJy7thTqkb4Hss2UnJ1wts0/GMh4Og7a75M+Q7katR8anhurN wQJR5nkZ0jNGnWfY3vZZzNK3EngBvbm78zWwrEV30HJg98qmQ5vleWjkUKGJ4qXqtY9RhNFoi ECKInexzyStUWXA87tkG6P16xJjO5W+jRcPP30RKFXxTatG5oS9xQCxDV6i1XO+q/P2Nw1hNz kbLo42z345hJTVo7PoNoYrNtEWsAi9W8t4cLhx7uRm6+rYs9JXZCS1ZcuNA7dYBsrDAau8e8S qYy+tEePzv8lybqX2E0EgFdW7tKmuQk5EsAjMMlQGG4TFtiLty2cT53vl4oR079JesyHav86D TcSyPuu9XzxDLHm3Q0mRNnHu4bxzt5YgcKXRXnyt8C8TOSWZaGmxJpeIV4Bzc8zN1Pjo+PRcu k9L8UIC8OtDBp8UZp2zImxe8JbrLRXWbiuwqN1iy8GZHdTDsIkW6tY1mUiiB6+4QLBhqDscsI psIRoSSfgfOjJofV0jPk0t5gS+pMQR6SfusehAsJCtZe1aINEdnrFiPZbYxpU/6nvPBg4vUl3 Oe4WEZFpvVY0jUeoxr4rth4yXD7RxMDS1+ruzaDty2/vIC+pmquW8niq0W8Z1/+pyoj2m8Oaq RufpszceZKLgZagm1soy1RdFgpLx3ke2QhkL988wArZVJV3utGtQSfJps2vvO0vHKw+sb5Aa7 381qbDIcHduSfWMP1iqBwnUniFqNOu4Kul1F4rwq1pbUR2Ud3QPlmWdSvck= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RFC7895bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 04:19:33 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0245_01D31479.D965C480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Support --- Alex From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh Jethanandani Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 12:22 PM To: Netconf Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption of RFC7895bis In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Note, the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, and as such falls within the charter of the WG. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. Thanks. Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) mjethanandani@gmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_0245_01D31479.D965C480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Support

--- = Alex

 

From: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mahesh = Jethanandani
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 12:22 = PM
To: Netconf <netconf@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Netconf] WG adoption of RFC7895bis

 

In the WG = meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for = adoption of the following draft as WG item. Note, the focus of the = draft is to be NMDA compliant, and as such falls within the charter of = the WG.

 

 

This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it = includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you = think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, = by responding to this thread. 

 

Thanks.

 

Mahesh Jethanandani (as = co-chair)

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0245_01D31479.D965C480-- From nobody Mon Aug 14 13:11:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C8E126E64; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:11:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: bclaise@cisco.com, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150274147130.10477.7808967843716607006.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 13:11:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 20:11:11 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani, a Chair of the netconf working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime anima Second Priority: nmrg i2rs i2nsf nfvrg Third Priority: sacm v6ops core 6tisch 6lo People who must be present: Benoit Claise Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please schedule session Mon-Thur. Friday is NOT possible. (netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime supa are conflict for the OPS AD Benoit Claise) and anima is conflict for co-chair Kent Watsen. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Aug 14 14:16:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70BEE132428 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 14:16:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1362.12; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:16:48 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1362.012; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:16:48 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 Thread-Index: AQHTDTv7CVdD7svCh0umDY1qwq937KKDjkaA Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 21:16:48 +0000 Message-ID: <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> References: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email 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b3Ugc2F5KS4gVGhpcw0KcGFzc3dvcmQgZmllbGQgaXMgY29taW5nIGZyb20gdGhlIHNzaC1jbGll bnQtZ3JvdXBpbmcgKGZyb20gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi0NCm5ldGNvbmYtc3NoLWNsaWVudC1zZXJ2ZXIp LiAgRXZlcnl0aGluZyBzZWVtcyBjb3JyZWN0IHRvIG1lLiAgQ2FuIHlvdQ0KYmUgbW9yZSBzcGVj aWZpYz8NCg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpLZW50DQoNCg0K From nobody Mon Aug 14 15:20:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F551323B1; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 15:19:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: bclaise@cisco.com, mjethanandani@gmail.com, netconf-chairs@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150274919784.21049.3406669002503131484.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 15:19:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] netconf - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 100 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:19:58 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani, a Chair of the netconf working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Configuration Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Mahesh Jethanandani Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime anima Second Priority: i2rs bfd ippm rtgwg Third Priority: sacm v6ops core 6tisch 6lo People who must be present: Benoit Claise Mahesh Jethanandani Kent Watsen Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please schedule session Mon-Thur. Friday is NOT possible. (netmod opsarea opsawg l2sm lime supa are conflict for the OPS AD Benoit Claise) and anima is conflict for co-chair Kent Watsen. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Aug 14 16:46:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A0513244B for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:46:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1362.12; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:46:33 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1362.012; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:46:33 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: =?utf-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= CC: Vican Pavol , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: notes to draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 Thread-Index: AQHTBguMZf+Ncmi6qE6lpL2POWalMaJmE+QAgAlcgACAAkVJAIAHXcwAgAtMf4A= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <875F6096-AEE1-4563-B30A-89BF7E42E656@juniper.net> References: <255a18c0-480a-981c-6c8a-933ba7b289a1@cesnet.cz> <01880FD9-6295-4F2A-8659-A22D51DBDFC3@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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SMTP id i66so98489wmg.0 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 19:02:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=z2nyGdf35l6sIUWsVJYTzwOjo2fgVlEU3hmM9EbAcVw=; b=xZ+nbTDaTvjT0zM38c1TnGDk70q+4wOEdElyilihvmxh56tXej0bVYndu6g4dPA09g sepidMeyXcSiJt8eeHqNEdME5PHKMNzRECG/CPcdCNYuxJGYzZM+VFY9E1P3Qc5XLxWT piqmf7tz4NeZRBZ/4EgHZXZqdwmuGkDeMtvA9Tq6by721GQOO+DM1VMk0onqVSRO5ua+ Tn52txUS3x2MV9b8Dm6ibZgHW3W3UYTnozS10g7vMJ0qq1i1xhK4nK23nVjCJbAG16wi V3ibFsJH2kfkzHSOxQH3dFyfeyIqqmHByUNDmqR9KQ+IvyOAY0PR/h+xIgZPrby0RwI2 lbYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=z2nyGdf35l6sIUWsVJYTzwOjo2fgVlEU3hmM9EbAcVw=; b=FlR7OxSA7O4L6KExE0qJmJdroG0rY5ZgVVRP9kFHKFvbJbRT0LISJNYiUN+RoN/scl 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boundary="94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 02:02:58 -0000 --94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > >>>> C2: > >>>> > >>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate > >>>> (M1) feature tls-listen > >>>> (M2) feature tls-listen > >>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home > >>>> > >>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > >>>> the TLS transport? > >>> > >>> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > >>> clients/servers may support. > >>> > >> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, > listen). > >> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > >> but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. > >> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future > >> versions could be different. > > > > I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and > > 'tls-initiate' features: > > > > Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTCONF, > > this feature helps support possible future transports."; > > > > > > If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement > > transport, this sentence is not quite right. > > Fine, now it says "This feature exists as TLS might not be a > mandatory-to-implement transport in the future." > > > > You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. > > We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, > > server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally > > mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then > > the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." > > This seems unnecessary. Already the 'if-feature' statements will > force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not > configurable! > > > Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular object, because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature can make this conditional requirement. But not a big deal because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV of YANG conformance. > > The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory > > conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It > > is more expensive than if-feature on many levels. > > No thank-you. Let's stick with just the feature statements. > > agreed > > > >>> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested > >>> nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not > clear > >>> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. > >> > >> Wait, seriously? I didn't see that. I don't understand how else nested > >> if-feature statements can be interpreted. Can you point to the thread > >> where this was discussed? > > > > I cannot find it now. > > Essentially, features are not coupled to objects: > > > > container foo { > > if-feature A; > > container foo2 { > > if-feature AA; > > } > > } > > > > container bar { > > if-feature AA; > > } > > > > The designer has to decide: > > Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends > > on container foo? Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend > > on both features or can they be used independently? > > I don't think the designer has any choice in this. The features > themselves have no inherent dependency (in your example, we can't > see if the feature definitions actually define a dependency), but > the containers certainly do (e.g., foo2 depends on foo). External > sub-trees (e.g., bar) can have just if-feature AA, without also > having an if-feature A (assuming that dependency doesn't exist). > > > > In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if > > any transport is supported, and feature listen- is > > a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the > > 2nd feature is correct. > > Yes. > > > > >> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: > >> > >> feature tls-listen { > >> if-feature listen; > >> ... > >> } > >> > >> feature tls-listen { > >> if-feature listen; > >> ... > >> } > > > > I went ahead and made this change, it seems better. > > Nothing to add here, but I'm leaving it for now since it adds > to the above discussion. > > > > > > >>>> C5: > >>> > >>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET > >>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > >> > >> Okay, how about this? > >> > >> "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > >> e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > >> from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > >> close the connection when it is ready to release it. > >> Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > >> restarts its timer until the next connection."; > > > > Not sure this is needed. > > RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated > > by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain > > this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > Oh, now I see your concern, how about this? (I removed the sentence > altogether): > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so that > the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for > the RESTCONF server. Once the connection has been > closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart > its timer until the next connection."; > > I would change messages to requests > ...and by "for whatever reason", I mean, either due to the > client closing the connection, or due to reasons such as > an idle or keep-alive timeout. > > > >>>>C6: > >>>> > >>>> (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > >>>> (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection- > type/periodic/ > >>>> > >>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > >>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > >>>> not timeout an SSE response connection > >>> > >>> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' > leaf > >>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > >>> dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > >>> connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > >>> from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > >> > >> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., > >> end-time >provided) I think this would have to be used by the > >> client. This tells the server to drop the connection when the > >> replay is complete. > > > > Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could > > be other data-collection mechanisms. Still, note that when end-time > > provided is reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop. > > This seems like a more generic mechanism. > > I have nothing to add here, but I'm keeping it here since it's > connected to the below comment. > > > >>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > >>> > >>> POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > >>> > >>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > >> > >> First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to > >> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and > >> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040? > > > > RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation > > resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server > > treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a > > NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right > > afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I > > think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would > > need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > > Okay, but can you connect this to the draft? Are you asking for > a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification > needed for RFC 8040? > > not asking for a change. It is currently up to the implementation. For example CGI will call the server once for each request but Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session and call the server over and over for each request on that session. > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > > > Andy --94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

>>>> C2:
>>>>
>>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate
>>>> (M1) feature tls-listen
>>>> (M2) feature tls-listen
>>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home
>>>>
>>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server M= UST support
>>>> the TLS transport?
>>>
>>> <KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don'= ;t know what
>>> clients/servers may support.
>>>
>> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, l= isten).
>> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support= ,
>> but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented.
>> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
>> versions could be different.
>
> I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' = and
> 'tls-initiate' features:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Currently TLS is the only transport supported by R= ESTCONF,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature helps support possible future transpo= rts.";
>
>
> If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implem= ent
> transport, this sentence is not quite right.

Fine, now it says "This feature exists as TLS might not be a
mandatory-to-implement transport in the future."


> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance.
> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "pure= ly optional,
> server developer's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing like condit= ionally
> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , the= n
> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."

This seems unnecessary.=C2=A0 Already the 'if-feature' statements w= ill
force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not
configurable!




Nothing forces the serv= er to developer to implement a particular object,
because feature= s are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature
can ma= ke this conditional requirement.=C2=A0 But not a big deal
because= the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV
of Y= ANG conformance.

=C2=A0
> The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory
> conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It
> is more expensive than if-feature on many levels.

No thank-you.=C2=A0 Let's stick with just the feature statements.


agreed

=C2=A0=


>>> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that= nested
>>> nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 = It is not clear
>>> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.
>>
>> Wait, seriously? I didn't see that.=C2=A0 I don't understa= nd how else nested
>> if-feature statements can be interpreted.=C2=A0 Can you point to t= he thread
>> where this was discussed?
>
> I cannot find it now.
> Essentially, features are not coupled to objects:
>
>=C2=A0 container foo {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature A;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container foo2 {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature AA;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>=C2=A0 }
>
>=C2=A0 container bar {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature AA;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
> The designer has to decide:
> Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends
> on container foo?=C2=A0 Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend > on both features or can they be used independently?

I don't think the designer has any choice in this.=C2=A0 The features themselves have no inherent dependency (in your example, we can't
see if the feature definitions actually define a dependency), but
the containers certainly do (e.g., foo2 depends on foo).=C2=A0 External
sub-trees (e.g., bar) can have just if-feature AA, without also
having an if-feature A (assuming that dependency doesn't exist).


> In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if
> any transport is supported, and feature listen-<transport> is > a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the
> 2nd feature is correct.

Yes.



>> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:
>>
>>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature listen;
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>>=C2=A0 }
>>
>>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature listen;
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
>>=C2=A0 }
>
> I went ahead and made this change, it seems better.

Nothing to add here, but I'm leaving it for now since it adds
to the above discussion.





>>>> C5:
>>>
>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET >>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs=
>>
>> Okay, how about this?
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so = that,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF client m= ust
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release it.<= br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.";<= br> >
> Not sure this is needed.
> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated
> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain
> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2n= d sentence.

Oh, now I see your concern, how about this?=C2=A0 (I removed the sentence altogether):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so t= hat
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Once the connection has bee= n
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its timer until the next connection.";


I would change messages to requests

=C2=A0
...and by "for whatever reason", I mean, either due to the
client closing the connection, or due to reasons such as
an idle or keep-alive timeout.


>>>>C6:
>>>>
>>>> (M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/= periodic/
>>>> (M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client= /connection-type/periodic/
>>>>
>>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from t= imeouts.
>>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The s= erver should
>>>> not timeout an SSE response connection
>>>
>>> <KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the = 9;idle-timeout' leaf
>>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription acti= ve are never
>>> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole p= oint is to shed idle
>>> connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants t= o collect logs
>>> from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?=
>>
>> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,.,
>> end-time >provided) I think this would have to be used by the >> client.=C2=A0 This tells the server to drop the connection when th= e
>> replay is complete.
>
> Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could
> be other data-collection mechanisms.=C2=A0 Still, note that when end-t= ime
> provided is reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop= .
>=C2=A0This seems like a more generic mechanism.

I have nothing to add here, but I'm keeping it here since it's
connected to the below comment.


>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-= session
>>>
>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?
>>
>> First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 With rega= rds to
>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF?= =C2=A0 - and
>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040?
>
> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation
> resources.=C2=A0 It is left as an implementation detail.=C2=A0 Our ser= ver
> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a
> NETCONF operation like <lock> is granted and then released right=
> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated.=C2=A0 I > think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would
> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF.

Okay, but can you connect this to the draft?=C2=A0 Are you asking for
a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification
needed for RFC 8040?



not asking for a change= .
It is currently up to the implementation.
For example= CGI will call the server once for each request but Fast-CGI
will= call the thin-client once for each HTTP session and call the server
<= div>over and over for each request on that session.





> Andy

Kent






--94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7-- From nobody Mon Aug 14 23:30:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DB712420B for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tWCBq9ftH9s4 for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A9EF1204DA for ; Mon, 14 Aug 2017 23:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7C6EF9; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id GI-U_BkleD4B; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 262C1200BE; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rFL6TXheYh3m; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB075200BD; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 98B7D403E3F5; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:30:10 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170815063010.g3gng6dfs3nbmi7r@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 06:30:17 -0000 On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 09:16:48PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > - security considerations > > > > There is a warning that max-sessions != 0 may be exploited for a > > denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to have in the > > first place? > > It's important to production servers to constrain resources. > That said, we could debate if it needs to be a configurable > value. Another fix to the security-consideration text is > either remove '0' as an option or re-define '0' to mean > "use system preference". Thoughts? The question is whether a simple minded max-session really helps since it opens the floor to new attacks (and I note that it defaults to no limit anyway). Anyway, I assume 'session' here means an established NETCONF session, so the client must have successfully authenticated. Perhaps my interpretation of what 'session' means is wrong and you mean the max number of established TCP connections? But then the denial of service potential is even worse. > >- tree diagrams outdated > > > > The tree diagrams list the choice :(password) which is not anymore > > in the YANG definitions, so apparently the tree diagrams are > > outdated. > > Searching the netconf-client-server draft, there are four matches for > the string "password", all within the tree diagrams (as you say). This > password field is coming from the ssh-client-grouping (from draft-ietf- > netconf-ssh-client-server). Everything seems correct to me. Can you > be more specific? > OK. Looks like I overlooked this. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Aug 15 17:17:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8A81323B0; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:17:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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<150284276306.12625.17381613993631339731@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:19:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:19:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for NETCONF or RESTCONF based Management Authors : Kent Watsen Mikael Abrahamsson Ian Farrer Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15.txt Pages : 65 Date : 2017-08-15 Abstract: This draft presents a secure technique for establishing a NETCONF or RESTCONF connection between a newly deployed device, configured with just its factory default settings, and its deployment specific network management system (NMS). Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. Please note that no other RFC Editor instructions are specified anywhere else in this document. Artwork in the IANA Considerations section contains placeholder values for DHCP options pending IANA assignment. Please apply the following replacements: o "OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv4 Zero Touch Option" option o "OPTION_V6_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv6 Zero Touch Option" option Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2017-08-15" --> the publication date of this draft Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ieft-netconf-netconf-client-server The following one Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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(dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-66.cisco.com [10.63.23.66]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GAuX3b005374; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:56:33 GMT To: Kent Watsen , "'Netconf'" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" References: <018d01d2f124$4bbd2790$e33776b0$@gmail.com> <56a0feca-bc72-8b23-cbce-ca1fa6c2fe82@cisco.com> <9A8E9828-5247-4EE9-8EEB-C97ACC369A6A@juniper.net> <649D61E3-F35E-4FB7-BADF-9CA322AF5F93@juniper.net> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <6974fe69-28f2-aad3-dca2-b3b17d0c6461@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:56:33 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <649D61E3-F35E-4FB7-BADF-9CA322AF5F93@juniper.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------606549B6D9234D43297D7F2E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WGLC comments on draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:56:43 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------606549B6D9234D43297D7F2E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kent, The draft updates looks good, some further comments inline ... On 16/08/2017 01:17, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > I've decided to defer addressing some of your concerns until after > posting > > an update, so the changes are easier to understand. I'll post the > update > > later tonight. More responses below. > > K. > > On 7/20/17, 4:45 AM, "Robert Wilton" > wrote: > > Hi Kent, > > On 19/07/2017 20:07, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > Thanks for the review. Please see my comments below. > > Kent > > -- > > Hi, > > I've read through the zerotouch draft, but found it much more hard going > > that the keystore draft, but then it relates to stuff that I'm not > > particularly familiar with! > > I would say that this draft it a long way out of my domain of expertise, > > so I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to judge whether this draft is > > ready for publication. In particular, I think that a through founding > > in the security aspects are probably key to knowing whether this draft > > is right. > > So, my comments are more to do with the structure/readability of the > > document rather that whether the proposed technological solution is > > right. Hopefully they are still of use. > > Main comments: > > 1) I found that the draft is long, with quite lengthy descriptions in > > the early part of the document, which often seemed to overlap in the > > concepts that they are describing. E.g. whether some data is trusted or > > untrusted, and how that trust can be established could possibly be dealt > > with early in the document, and then just referenced later. > > I.e. data is untrusted unless it has been received over a secure > > connection to a trusted server, or is appropriately signed. > > Then in section 2.1, the 3 paragraphs on trust could be simplified to: > > Redirect data may be trusted or untrusted. If trusted, then it can be > > used to establish a secure connection to a trusted server by including > > the bootstrap server's trust anchor certificate. If untrusted, then the > > device MUST discard any included trust anchor certificates. The text > > about a provision connection could be left to a reference to section 7.5. > > Likewise, in section 2.2, the paragraph starting "Bootstrap information > > is trusted if ..." could be deleted. > > okay, point taken, I'll see how this can be simplified. > > 2) Section 4. Artifact Groupings: > > 2i) I think that the second paragraph of 4.1, starting "unsigned > > information is useful ..." is probably superfluous and could be deleted. > > or perhaps stated differently? I'm trying to provide the use > > case. Similar paragraphs are in 4.2 and 4.3 as well... > > My thought was to try and make the normative part of the document > (i.e. to actually implement zerotouch) shorter and more concise. > > If trusted vs untrusted and signed/unsigned data is covered once near > the top of the document then it may not be necessary to comment about > signed vs unsigned, and trusted vs untrusted in the subsequent sections. > > I deferring making this change now. > OK. > > 2ii) I wonder if sections 4.2 Signed Information (without Revocations) > > and 4.3 Signed Information (with Revocations) could be coalesced > > together. I.e. covering signed information, and then a subsection of > > revocations? > > Perhaps, but then wouldn't that make the three variations less > > obvious? Currently, each variation has its own section, which I think > > helps them to stand out... > > Yes, perhaps. > > But possibly you could see this as really just 2 options, one of which > has 2 sub options: > > 1) Unsigned data > 2) Signed data. If signed, then revocation certificates may or may > not be provided. > > I've dramatically shortened this section, we'll see how you > like it when I > > post the update… > Yes, I think that the shorter section is much better. > 3) Section 5: Sources of Bootstrapping Data > > I also think that these sections could also possible be made more concise: > > 3i) Some of the text on "Removable Storage" seems unnecessary given that > > it is out of scope for this draft. > > what do you think is out of scope? > > Sorry, I mean that the text is perhaps not normative. > > E.g. picking up this comment " > > The format of the removable storage device's filesystem and the > naming of the files are outside the scope of this document. > " > > > I wonder if this section could be summarized as: > > "Removal storage can be a source of untrusted bootstrap artifacts. > The specific details of how those artifacts are encoded is outside the > scope of this draft." > > Perhaps that text is a bit too short, but given it is implementation > specific I'm not sure how much needs to be stated. > > Yes, way too short. Actually, I like it the way it is, even > after re-reading it. > > Looking at removable storage in particular, since you called it out, > that last paragraph > > has been built up over time - mostly by comments from Juergen. Maybe > you should > > think about it again after seeing the update with all the other changes… > The new chapter 4 still seems quite long to me, but it is probably OK, and I don't think that I can offer any pragmatic alternative. > > 3ii) As per previous comments the comments about trust could potentially > > be curtailed if it previously been covered in a generic way. > > right, I'll look to tighten this up > > 4) Section 6. Workflow > > 4 i) Would it make sense to put the Workflow text as an appendix? It > > seems to be giving examples of how it could be implemented. > > certainly could, as it's not meant to be normative. That > > said, I think Andy said that he really appreciated that section > > being there... > > OK. My goal is just to try and get the normative text to be shorter. > > I've moved this section to the Appendix. > Thanks. > 4 ii) The diagram on page 23, point 2 seems incomplete: "for each source > > supported, check" > > If we use another line, we could have a more complete sentence. > > E.g. for each source supported, check if bootstrapping data is available. > > But then again, that's pretty much what #2 under the diagram says. Is > > this what you want? > > I don't mind. It just seemed that the current description ended mid flow. > > I'll consider this item closed. > OK. > Minor comments: > > 1) In the terminology section, it might be useful to add definitions for > > "fingerprint" and "webhook". Perhaps also "trusted", "untrusted", > > "trusted device". > > is "fingerprint" not commonly known? > > I don't know, within security circles I would assume yes, outside of > that I'm not sure. I do know that my children leave lots of > fingerprints on our windows ;-) > > I'm going to assume that readers of this draft know what a > fingerprint is. Also, where used, the draft seems to provide enough > context to provide a definition in situ. > OK. > 2) section 7.6, force the reinstallation of its boot image. > > Is this forcing re-installation of the original boot image, or an > > updated one, or does it not matter? > > it's the boot-image specified by the bootstrapping process. > > Reading this section, the intent seems clear, but I wrote it. Can > > you re-read this section and see if you still feel the same way? > > It's still not entirely clear to me, but if I was interpreting this > text I my best guess would match your description above. > > okay, I replaced "its boot image" with "the boot image". > Hopefully this > > resolves your issue. > Not sure. In the algorithm, it is still a bit ambiguous to me as to what happens when a failure happens, e.g. the downloaded image doesn't match the fingerprint. Does it keep trying to download the image? E.g. sometimes with a BIOS there is a known good BIOS baked into NVRAM so that if even if you bork updating the BIOS you can go back to a previous version that should hopefully allow you to recover without bricking the device. Perhaps the device should have a choice as to which boot image is reverts to? Thanks, Rob --------------606549B6D9234D43297D7F2E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Kent,

The draft updates looks good, some further comments inline ...

On 16/08/2017 01:17, Kent Watsen wrote:

Hi Robert,

 

I've decided to defer addressing some of your concerns until after posting

an update, so the changes are easier to understand.    I'll post the update

later tonight.   More responses below.

 

K.

 

 

 

Hi Kent,

 

On 19/07/2017 20:07, Kent Watsen wrote:

Hi Rob,
 
Thanks for the review.  Please see my comments below.
 
Kent
 
--
 
Hi,
 
I've read through the zerotouch draft, but found it much more hard going 
that the keystore draft, but then it relates to stuff that I'm not 
particularly familiar with!
 
I would say that this draft it a long way out of my domain of expertise, 
so I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to judge whether this draft is 
ready for publication.  In particular, I think that a through founding 
in the security aspects are probably key to knowing whether this draft 
is right.
 
So, my comments are more to do with the structure/readability of the 
document rather that whether the proposed technological solution is 
right.  Hopefully they are still of use.
 
 
Main comments:
 
1) I found that the draft is long, with quite lengthy descriptions in 
the early part of the document, which often seemed to overlap in the 
concepts that they are describing.  E.g. whether some data is trusted or 
untrusted, and how that trust can be established could possibly be dealt 
with early in the document, and then just referenced later.
 
I.e. data is untrusted unless it has been received over a secure 
connection to a trusted server, or is appropriately signed.
 
Then in section 2.1, the 3 paragraphs on trust could be simplified to:
 
Redirect data may be trusted or untrusted.  If trusted, then it can be 
used to establish a secure connection to a trusted server by including 
the bootstrap server's trust anchor certificate.  If untrusted, then the 
device MUST discard any included trust anchor certificates.  The text 
about a provision connection could be left to a reference to section 7.5.
 
Likewise, in section 2.2, the paragraph starting "Bootstrap information 
is trusted if ..." could be deleted.
 
<KENT> okay, point taken, I'll see how this can be simplified.
 
 
 
2) Section 4. Artifact Groupings:
2i) I think that the second paragraph of 4.1, starting "unsigned 
information is useful ..." is probably superfluous and could be deleted.
 
<KENT> or perhaps stated differently?  I'm trying to provide the use
case.  Similar paragraphs are in 4.2 and 4.3 as well...

My thought was to try and make the normative part of the document (i.e. to actually implement zerotouch) shorter and more concise.

If trusted vs untrusted and signed/unsigned data is covered once near the top of the document then it may not be necessary to comment about signed vs unsigned, and trusted vs untrusted in the subsequent sections.

<KENT> I deferring making this change now.

OK.


 
2ii) I wonder if sections 4.2 Signed Information (without Revocations) 
and 4.3 Signed Information (with Revocations) could be coalesced 
together.  I.e. covering signed information, and then a subsection of 
revocations?
 
<KENT> Perhaps, but then wouldn't that make the three variations less
obvious?  Currently, each variation has its own section, which I think
helps them to stand out...

Yes, perhaps.

But possibly you could see this as really just 2 options, one of which has 2 sub options:

1) Unsigned data
2) Signed data.  If signed, then revocation certificates may or may not be provided.

<KENT> I've dramatically shortened this section, we'll see how you like it when I

post the update…

Yes, I think that the shorter section is much better.


 

 
3) Section 5: Sources of Bootstrapping Data
I also think that these sections could also possible be made more concise:
3i) Some of the text on "Removable Storage" seems unnecessary given that 
it is out of scope for this draft.
 
<KENT> what do you think is out of scope?

Sorry, I mean that the text is perhaps not normative.

E.g. picking up this comment " 

The format of the removable storage device's filesystem and the
   naming of the files are outside the scope of this document.
"


I wonder if this section could be summarized as:

"Removal storage can be a source of untrusted bootstrap artifacts.  The specific details of how those artifacts are encoded is outside the scope of this draft."

Perhaps that text is a bit too short, but given it is implementation specific I'm not sure how much needs to be stated.

<KENT> Yes, way too short.  Actually, I like it the way it is, even after re-reading it.

Looking at removable storage in particular, since you called it out, that last paragraph

has been built up over time - mostly by comments from Juergen.   Maybe you should

think about it again after seeing the update with all the other changes…


The new chapter 4 still seems quite long to me, but it is probably OK, and I don't think that I can offer any pragmatic alternative.



 
3ii) As per previous comments the comments about trust could potentially 
be curtailed if it previously been covered in a generic way.
 
<KENT> right, I'll look to tighten this up
 
 
4) Section 6. Workflow
4 i) Would it make sense to put the Workflow text as an appendix? It 
seems to be giving examples of how it could be implemented.
 
<KENT> certainly could, as it's not meant to be normative.  That
said, I think Andy said that he really appreciated that section
being there...

OK.  My goal is just to try and get the normative text to be shorter.

<KENT> I've moved this section to the Appendix.

Thanks.

 

 
4 ii) The diagram on page 23, point 2 seems incomplete: "for each source 
supported, check"
 
<KENT> If we use another line, we could have a more complete sentence.
E.g. for each source supported, check if bootstrapping data is available.
But then again, that's pretty much what #2 under the diagram says.  Is
this what you want?

I don't mind.  It just seemed that the current description ended mid flow.

<KENT> I'll consider this item closed.

OK.

 

 
 
Minor comments:
 
1) In the terminology section, it might be useful to add definitions for 
"fingerprint" and "webhook".  Perhaps also "trusted", "untrusted", 
"trusted device".
 
<KENT> is "fingerprint" not commonly known?

I don't know, within security circles I would assume yes, outside of that I'm not sure.  I do know that my children leave lots of fingerprints on our windows ;-)

<KENT> I'm going to assume that readers of this draft know what a fingerprint is.  Also, where used, the draft seems to provide enough context to provide a definition in situ.

OK.


 

2) section 7.6, force the reinstallation of its boot image.
Is this forcing re-installation of the original boot image, or an 
updated one, or does it not matter?
 
<KENT> it's the boot-image specified by the bootstrapping process.
Reading this section, the intent seems clear, but I wrote it.  Can
you re-read this section and see if you still feel the same way?

It's still not entirely clear to me, but if I was interpreting this text I my best guess would match your description above.

<KENT> okay, I replaced "its boot image" with "the boot image".  Hopefully this

resolves your issue.

Not sure.

In the algorithm, it is still a bit ambiguous to me as to what happens when a failure happens, e.g. the downloaded image doesn't match the fingerprint.  Does it keep trying to download the image?

E.g. sometimes with a BIOS there is a known good BIOS baked into NVRAM so that if even if you bork updating the BIOS you can go back to a previous version that should hopefully allow you to recover without bricking the device.

Perhaps the device should have a choice as to which boot image is reverts to?

Thanks,
Rob

--------------606549B6D9234D43297D7F2E-- From nobody Wed Aug 16 04:14:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEB51324A3 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 04:14:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jn_lSzuE6cXO for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 04:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C33913263E for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 04:14:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3598; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1502882074; x=1504091674; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=tRodRIA+3SQvFJC9Qq0xmVKDbSP7uG6K8R8ijXfmyr4=; b=OEdpdc+/XBJ9GtXgZTng5xYL96ptpSZbtXHkhC4gS1GPH4oRHLQQ8Del mZXiwghfD0dbmLEAkJstSjrZgm8ePubUVp1AEN5cxZ3Ods7O96bo8504Z eZv1A/Fh3LjJjFXnxpVMdG4GY1Qj5ebgODlOh8X0ENlK2SKoGR0LqPYcg I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C6AADTJ5RZ/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBhD6BFY4Sc5ENiDeILIU2ghIhAQqDPIEQTwKEfhgBAgEBAQEBAQF?= =?us-ascii?q?rKIUZAQEBAwEBbBsLBAoKJwchBh8RBgEMBgIBAYoUAxUQrVknhxgNhBkBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMog06BYyuCfIJXiBAFmBmHcDyHVId4hHaCEIV?= =?us-ascii?q?gg1iHFIw2eYhsHziBCjIhCBwVSYRegj0/NolbAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,382,1498521600"; d="scan'208,217";a="654998038" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Aug 2017 11:14:30 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.66] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-66.cisco.com [10.63.23.66]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7GBEUw4009668; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:14:30 GMT To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Netconf References: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 12:14:29 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------53FDF4C66D815B92F6D35DD4" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:14:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------53FDF4C66D815B92F6D35DD4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Support. On 10/08/2017 05:32, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong > support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the > focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the > charter of the WG. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda/ > > > This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who > showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft > should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding > to this thread. > > Thanks. > > Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --------------53FDF4C66D815B92F6D35DD4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Support.


On 10/08/2017 05:32, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the WG.


This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. 

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)





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aXJzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGg6ICJubyB1bmRlcnN0YW5kSU5HIG9mIHRpbWUiLCBhZGQgImluZyINCg0K PEtFTlQ+IGRvbmUuDQoNCg0Kc2VjdGlvbiA4LjEgcGFyYWdyYXBoIDI6IGVwaGVybWFsIC0+IGVw aGVtZXJhbA0KDQo8S0VOVD4gZml4ZWQuDQoNCnNlY3Rpb24gOC4yIGNvbXByb21pemVkIC0+IGNv bXByb21pc2VkPw0KDQo8S0VOVD4gZml4ZWQuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Aug 17 07:52:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828EC1252BA for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:52:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: 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Thread-Index: AQHTF2hsdmDyCZHvzEG1i1lcdCC7gw== Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:52:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1492; 6:PblRIsxx3XlpFlTmqazhQhvBN2885JK8wgLGXxkm08QrHPtxrZ4joS2fP/Z2HANICrSow2QBqgeooMcF1WjljJqNQJXFFKEN4SxsUW/cyXrGPqsTbsXjF0rWqSDJNggU2CzLoRScSRI0o7NnJL9zXh76BTd/k5bXhuKKXCgGlVUD+Ug7J4ri38eNNGwqwGoMe5+dSDJvy8BsLLUAk0jVgdGuRjE38ZYcCHL29XsGquhWD0pJkW9Od7rZzMjudZ0Bd+htivGsRa3eaPY6QpgZ9SK9DRMD9H+5v2yuGdklNCmdtUaiTXE/JFA6F0JOEe6sqQgOhAmjVPHrPXh8OZG+3g==; 5:mlK52F8RxLv8LsWwtjCuWsdYqHwsiFRT7TdYfDWKFL+1u80IejTf4HpZZN4O3GFaby2hJnZrnwaFHxCyY8XRxzPdKvvHu0p0Fx4eKBJ8Kj7OY0F2CdZatbxcBvhfu2kdu//5e//sLaIGVGi4fuw5FtlCcsSbUaTDuSadeRX2Okk=; 24:VUlZThrgFq/oKspXNuwEgFp7jEKIWjWHl0aREIAEd+k4MLAnY8NUxMf6wFyPEtEZqgf8xdHJEpJnf08mQou3Ea5/ogNtVj3d7e7xnb+aG8E=; 7:ZopGW99VrglGfTa2z3YJe9V+LyobG1qhHVyplHEKK86vyTeNK4NG/4Hiy+b95dJ88bHcwJ2MbG5gl0Z1Lx5Vt+SQf/9uMYw7PduNR2fPtR0WtKSh7kWqy3v9fLumaMXMcvN00OHv0HHP7gkAonJ8409Uu7i+8kItLqSss4E7kwks/gkCgAMUeLMcme1IEb3hRlHy5alZq1dExgez6/ONxizxIur1a+mpiPAzOR0hf28= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ea53f0ab-8fe2-4e25-71e7-08d4e57f8f27 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254152)(48565401081)(300000503095)(300135400095)(2017052603031)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1492; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN3PR0501MB1492: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(60795455431006)(158342451672863); x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(100000703101)(100105400095)(10201501046)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558100)(20161123560025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1492; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1492; x-forefront-prvs: 0402872DA1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39860400002)(189002)(40224003)(199003)(14454004)(36756003)(6116002)(102836003)(3846002)(25786009)(101416001)(2351001)(110136004)(6306002)(6512007)(5640700003)(6436002)(6506006)(77096006)(6486002)(53936002)(86362001)(966005)(5660300001)(305945005)(6916009)(7736002)(99286003)(189998001)(97736004)(81166006)(1730700003)(81156014)(8936002)(8676002)(83716003)(83506001)(54356999)(50986999)(2900100001)(82746002)(2501003)(33656002)(66066001)(105586002)(106356001)(478600001)(2906002)(68736007)(4001350100001)(3280700002)(3660700001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1492; H:BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <95228FA731356D49A738D4D3C5B99E35@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Aug 2017 14:52:19.0010 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1492 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] send 'version' in zerotouch url? X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:52:23 -0000 DQoNCkl0IGhhcyBjb21lIHRvIG15IGF0dGVudGlvbiB0aGF0IHRoZSB6ZXJvdG91Y2ggZHJhZnQg aXMgbWlzc2luZyB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSBmb3IgYSBkZXZpY2UgdG8gaW5mb3JtIGEgYm9vdHN0cmFw LXNlcnZlciB3aGF0IHZlcnNpb24gb2Ygc29mdHdhcmUgdGhlIGRldmljZSBpcyBjdXJyZW50bHkg cnVubmluZy4gIERvaW5nIHNvIHdvdWxkIGFsbG93IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgdG8gcG90ZW50aWFsbHkg cmV0dXJuIGEgcmVzcG9uc2Ugc3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQgZm9yIHRoZSB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHNvZnR3YXJl IHRoZSBkZXZpY2Ugc2F5cyBpdCBpcyBydW5uaW5nLg0KDQpUaGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgY2hhbmdlIGlz IHRvIGFkZCBhIHF1ZXJ5LXBhcmFtZXRlciBjYWxsZWQgJ3ZlcnNpb24nIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRldmlj ZSBjYW4gcHV0IGludG8gaXRzIEdFVCByZXF1ZXN0LiAgRm9yIGV4YW1wbGU6DQoNCiAgR0VUIGh0 dHBzOi8vZXhhbXBsZS5jb20vcmVzdGNvbmYvZGF0YS9pZXRmLXplcm90b3VjaC1ib290c3RyYXAt 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DQoNCg== From nobody Thu Aug 17 13:42:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68AE132395 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgdRtZfPKAdq for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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6:42hfI3hmUqUI63IsSGeEHuDc3nm/uCn0IcC8rN0nvUvHVnpCev9UlJcb3Vmejmxw4r8SPBd1g9a4F+GLflv+6DacviYp5VZRAtxOZxYXi32DwiWQ8JjeZZ0P0obuDPoxtvze6bGIu1sxUpLY8jQtlCLeEff5HRx2E2KUVdorCnhNjKq0GWlMQnqpk83vVnv+NMYhiAm6tLeHaGuaDUovjz95DcqwP3l7SenduzURY+nr21CaNyne/fUu1/hRKJ+es35a4FzsrJvQkY0yzqij4vZlZJy8CnLL26k5I+AdzPW7bifg0d6i6wDp67ujsXhN4u6xj5GFw6ME6Zk5L5DrCQ==; 5:Ha6PaRJV/zSl0jXQ8cLPRaiv9mFtBW9AcvElnVjh1/NRk84+TS5OypPX92Hibzm6bfAyxaFLqielxktRu4nAVF/jUSefGkFHq5WiWGR/CHjnxJUQKtPaQYZnSnPHlu+EsL6xoUwLdHoLTc8+k43YAA==; 24:7t0kfFNEXrGyi3UX/VHN2fb8yzgTZPg+npfrkrjf7i0PProkp9100dcvcjBvmc2poeiWfsiNbtOdxEQnryC5tx0koidhJsDjfxhFO+iyToU=; 7:vuRfXUSuAkcpgIzlBg0RCpXeZdQiJdvYL4Oq2NKkSoh4GCQ1ky9q3gBnDdQ4EiiJOzDYtHim19GOoubU/aZzRvEYJEa1+XNMx78JuFXLJvk61D1ZVAcD1RtfGQmmaXNDb+dKXS/uoX18a1Tm4TAARTEWriy1jn7gVrwpyRXv+ZLUzojdHxESRVe+mpVohZo3iDCWRthK2YjTX16Xd9pAezeWGyBvkYxqwXBwdVaCgJg= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a2b39fcc-c510-4135-688c-08d4e5b06f66 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254152)(300000503095)(300135400095)(48565401081)(2017052603157)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:BN3PR0501MB1409; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN3PR0501MB1409: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(158342451672863)(192374486261705)(35073007944872)(150554046322364)(21532816269658); x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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cyBmb3IgdGhpcz8NCg0KDQoNCksuDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Thu Aug 17 18:41:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84512132804 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 18:41:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K0Vx3074CqqA for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 18:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22a.google.com 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([2001:420:30d:1320:88f5:4996:c193:78cb]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q76sm9599295pfi.76.2017.08.17.18.41.42 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Aug 2017 18:41:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_42EEC7E1-2847-471A-BDAE-F95744F1E277" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 18:41:42 -0700 References: <005FE988-D838-4CC3-A072-863667916849@gmail.com> To: Netconf In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption of RESTCONF NMDA draft X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 01:41:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_42EEC7E1-2847-471A-BDAE-F95744F1E277 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 This successfully concludes the call for adoption of = draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda. Authors, please re-submit the draft = with the name draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-nmda. Thanks. > On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:14 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: >=20 > Support. >=20 > On 10/08/2017 05:32, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >> In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated = strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the = focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter = of the WG. >>=20 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda/ = >>=20 >> This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who = showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft = should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to = this thread.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks. >>=20 >> Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair) >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_42EEC7E1-2847-471A-BDAE-F95744F1E277 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 This successfully concludes the call for adoption of draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda. Authors, please re-submit the draft with the name draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-nmda.

Thanks.

On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:14 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:

Support.


On 10/08/2017 05:32, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
In the WG meeting in Prague, folks by a show of hands indicated strong support for adoption of the following draft as WG item. Since the focus of the draft is to be NMDA compliant, it falls within the charter of the WG.


This e-mail is to reaffirm that support and it includes folks who showed support in the WG. Please indicate whether you think the draft should be adopted as a WG item, or not - with a reason, by responding to this thread. 

Thanks.

Mahesh Jethanandani (as co-chair)





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Mahesh Jethanandani



--Apple-Mail=_42EEC7E1-2847-471A-BDAE-F95744F1E277-- From nobody Fri Aug 18 00:46:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995B9132144; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 00:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OwcnWMbjCggX; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 00:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb1-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb1-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 885BD12EC06; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 00:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:207]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id ibyRdFVTccQyLibyRdQQfr; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:45:45 +0200 Received: from ip565c6c1e.direct-adsl.nl ([86.92.108.30]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:45:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 09:45:43 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Kent Watsen Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, Sheng Jiang , anima-chairs@ietf.org, 6tisch@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <3F9D68E6-57C9-48EF-A4EB-3CA8B613D42D@juniper.net> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> <3F9D68E6-57C9-48EF-A4EB-3CA8B613D42D@juniper.net> Message-ID: <1fee7f82c855def7345d506fbb720dbc@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLvmp/uAoE0ESmd6fJb69jJaqfYQYNjthF/bPbChbMOo6X8V+92q4gysxaVLdSHZoAZqvJ97wIlO/F9kjiRCsQiKQleF/0ZxNZiFvcsxS97VTWtB8W76 WTs3UUTJ7YheaDrrY4M6R6o73ZQzr2XcHlw3PRGwhAcAfg3V3OCuf0OEEPhvtgoD+zwtkU+wy5AV+jTI9QyKGoam7c4ba3egyQCRnm8L60lB/TJ1PMLJmSLj Jddq95rAaCLF8dLy8K9x2Aq5aoNRLwF8AFhT8dHvC5x+TqmAxWsisRhZV47qEqCw2xktdar+nhBhxi+VG4W8dN7/g33Mgh7F5ngjSBaPXxnotz4+OwpOuw2g oWePRlq3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [6tisch] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 07:45:51 -0000 >> Can a discussion section about "manufacturer additions" be >> added. Pointing out the consequences for interoperability >> when using "Augment" to add manufacturer specifics can be >> helpful. > > I'm confused, which section does this comment regard? It refers to the document as a whole and especially section 7. Usually, manufacturers want manufacturer-specific additions to documents. They may consider to use Augment for that purpose. My suggestion is to discuss ways to add manufacturer additions to the voucher and the consequences. That may turn out to be a big NO-NO to manufacturer additions. I think it would be worthwhile to point that out. > Section 2; mention terminology from RFC7950 > > What is this? Are you asking for the draft to import terms > from RFC7950? Which terms Reading RFC7950 is useful to understand section 4 for example; and needed when reading the voucher YANG text. So not especially terms, but complete knowledge of RFC7950 is required. > > > page 4, Voucher: add: that "acknowledges ownership of the pledge and" > indicates... > > what does "acknowledges ownership of the pledge" mean? how > is it different than "indicates to a Pledge the cryptographic identity > of the Domain it should trust"? Now I am confused. I thought it was 2 ways. Pledge trusts domain, and domain partners trust pledge. > >> Add type in: >> Ownership ID voucher "type" is named >> Bearer Voucher "type" is named > > you only mention these two, but none of the voucher type > descriptions have "type" in them, or maybe I'm missing something. The name of the voucher is taken from the type I understand. Only ownership ID voucher and Bearer voucher have text starting with "xxxx is named". I see that I forgot: An audit voucher "type" is named ..... > >> section 7.1 last line: "there is a delay" is that delay between >> creation >> and consumption and when is the delay unacceptable? the text is (on >> purpose?) vague. > > The previous sentence says "...there may be a significant > delay between when a voucher is created and when it is consumed." > and the remainder of the line you're citing says "to ensure that > the assertions made when the voucher was created are still valid > when it is consumed." This is vague? To me yes. It sounds like a circular definition. To paraphrase: When the voucher is consumed, the assertions are valid by definition. I would expect a pointer to a delay definition and then an assertion that states: when consumption time is larger than the creation time + delay, the voucher is invalid. > From nobody Fri Aug 18 06:21:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 508F313235B; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 06:21:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4iVWWSz41g2N; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 06:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01on0137.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8D7E1204DA; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 06:21:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=8Sot/wKNZ6NceRCtCuixpjZtZX9vs+ca51hEMhb5mqA=; b=hkB0UbArPm/zjyImPDJTCkl/nrvjGQq3c3Qd5QEAvRe65LI7eA/MDL5ZgPre2hGwbkGR17WXQYXFNChz+FFWggWC5bftNYaVp83NWwrgtDfSdCxBt7w+lDkRmvgFcncwllmXLEyO/NYoBU59hbarI1ZH44SvqrNj7GhxSz63+Ew= Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.151) by BN3PR0501MB1395.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1362.12; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 13:21:17 +0000 Received: from BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) by BN3PR0501MB1442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.117.151]) with mapi id 15.01.1385.003; Fri, 18 Aug 2017 13:21:17 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "consultancy@vanderstok.org" CC: Sheng Jiang , "anima-chairs@ietf.org" , "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org>, "netconf@ietf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [6tisch] [Netconf] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 Thread-Index: AdMKmFTPR22MviVNQvGwNG9FbFt4tQAG0+8AAvnwfwAAVqYFgAADVm+A Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 13:21:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8168023A-AC1F-4A7E-B8BA-026651EFEF33@juniper.net> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> <3F9D68E6-57C9-48EF-A4EB-3CA8B613D42D@juniper.net> <1fee7f82c855def7345d506fbb720dbc@xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: <1fee7f82c855def7345d506fbb720dbc@xs4all.nl> 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Aug 2017 13:21:17.6307 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1395 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [6tisch] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 13:21:22 -0000 SGkgUGV0ZXIsDQoNCg0KPj4gQ2FuIGEgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBzZWN0aW9uIGFib3V0ICJtYW51ZmFj dHVyZXIgYWRkaXRpb25zIiBiZQ0KPj4gYWRkZWQuIFBvaW50aW5nIG91dCB0aGUgY29uc2VxdWVu Y2VzIGZvciBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5DQo+PiB3aGVuIHVzaW5nICJBdWdtZW50IiB0byBhZGQg bWFudWZhY3R1cmVyIHNwZWNpZmljcyBjYW4gYmUNCj4+IGhlbHBmdWwuDQo+IA0KPiBJJ20gY29u 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Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-08.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 01:07:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Subscribing to YANG datastore push updates Authors : Alexander Clemm Eric Voit Alberto Gonzalez Prieto Ambika Prasad Tripathy Einar Nilsen-Nygaard Andy Bierman Balazs Lengyel Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-08.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2017-08-20 Abstract: Providing rapid visibility into changes made on YANG configuration and operational objects enables new capabilities such as remote mirroring of configuration and operational state. Via the mechanism described in this document, subscriber applications may request a continuous, customized stream of updates from a YANG datastore. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Aug 21 00:37:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B734113291F; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 00:37:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qs8YItuFIbDd; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 00:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net [194.109.24.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96E12132926; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 00:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:211]) by smtp-cloud9.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id jhGadHPCLdRLjjhGadi5Yz; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:36:58 +0200 Received: from ip565c6c1e.direct-adsl.nl ([86.92.108.30]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:36:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:36:55 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Kent Watsen Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, 6tisch@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, Sheng Jiang Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <8168023A-AC1F-4A7E-B8BA-026651EFEF33@juniper.net> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> <3F9D68E6-57C9-48EF-A4EB-3CA8B613D42D@juniper.net> <1fee7f82c855def7345d506fbb720dbc@xs4all.nl> <8168023A-AC1F-4A7E-B8BA-026651EFEF33@juniper.net> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKVxOchUAcQPO0lWmeROLpqCYU1XK6J4PVreOUm4jbZpUXdmglHiAY9oXaQEPJtSYmg93cLy3H2qEHs0pSH7oEw32FQlsO+aLrmo9mrk9SjuJmuL+qsZ Eiftn2NTfweBEXwHCN6epIYiT+uZprCOd/C1BX/IxkotfZpRn7zdufarhJHQhWdhl8+eFSVfut+DprQcmr7wIgYWmyYj4fvHtNBw1HbIyAZlDFfAxpwOC5U7 e+2FpQoZnuWLgY2fMwj3yASPQytxyLf+LGOW+fzKsEwvpV5Ybjtj0Di2D9H/KlH/zvUfOb0trVMAa9YB3rs3K/aKjm2INOIP1i9StzGEv8NJ/TVy3rzusyWv INzLHI+q8bAY/f+MhxPS3KIMDwS8G46ZR/jaMpR7hNnoD/UueAztB4HCNnDqfYBlLkx1E9vE Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [6tisch] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 07:37:04 -0000 Hi Kent, >>> Can a discussion section about "manufacturer additions" be >>> added. Pointing out the consequences for interoperability >>> when using "Augment" to add manufacturer specifics can be >>> helpful. >> >> I'm confused, which section does this comment regard? > > It refers to the document as a whole and especially section 7. > Usually, manufacturers want manufacturer-specific additions to > documents. > They may consider to use Augment for that purpose. > My suggestion is to discuss ways to add manufacturer additions to the > voucher and the consequences. > That may turn out to be a big NO-NO to manufacturer additions. > I think it would be worthwhile to point that out. > > Are you asking for the voucher to contain a node > called something like 'opaque' having YANG type 'anyData'? > A sanctioned place where the MASA can stash some extra > stuff not defined by this document? Recall that some of > the motivation for this work being standardized is to > enable inspection by intermediates, and while the opaque > data could be presented to a human, it might be base64 > data. Any concerns bout that? My suggestion is a discussion not a standardization. So, no additions to the voucher in this document. However, pointing out the base64 format would be helpful for those thinking about an addition with opaque. > >> page 4, Voucher: add: that "acknowledges ownership of the pledge and" >> indicates... >> >> what does "acknowledges ownership of the pledge" mean? how >> is it different than "indicates to a Pledge the cryptographic identity >> of the Domain it should trust"? > > Now I am confused. I thought it was 2 ways. Pledge trusts domain, and > domain partners trust pledge. > > The pledge trusts the MASA (which signs the voucher) and then > the pledge trusts the domain (whose cert is inside the voucher). > Perhaps you're conflating signing the voucher with acknowledging > ownership? I am afraid, that I made the voucher responsible for all keyinfra protocol objectives. Sorry, for the confusion. > > From nobody Mon Aug 21 02:27:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B158413232C for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kqB3jx7cHMlF for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 395FD132027 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D91E3C; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id NKoaqku95WYm; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBDE200DF; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8XziI4jHBD-g; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF972200DE; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 967BA40453D0; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:27:17 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170821092717.menstdafm6dpw6at@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> <20170811142428.GD46402@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:27:24 -0000 On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 08:42:11PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > I've trimmed all but the ongoing threads... > > Kent > > > >> For the ssh-client-server draft > >> =============================== > >> > >> > - The overall setup is somewhat complicated but I do understand why. > >> > Obviously, the attempts to make things generic come with a price > >> > since many YANG definitions interact with other definitions that > >> > need to be understood. And while the end result is that we can > >> > configure SSH clients and servers for NETCONF, we only have a > >> > collection of groupings to configure a regular SSH client or > >> > server. Should we have an instantiation of these groupings for > >> > regular SSH clients and servers as well? > >> > >> I'm hoping to not have to do this, but can see that there might be > >> value in doing so in order to further proof-out the model. To do > >> this right would entail something like what Clyde did for the syslog > >> model in evaluating many vendor's implementations to find a common > >> denominator. I can imagine the WG undertaking such an analysis for > >> an SSH-server container, but I fail to see how it could be done for > >> an SSH-client container. Also, when thinking about symmetry to the > >> tls-client-server draft, note that the idea of creating a container > >> for a TLS-server doesn't make sense (which one, right?) > > > > Yes, for TLS there is no a common standalone TLS service. For SSH, > > there is however since SSH was created for a specific service (while > > TLS was created as a plugin to secure another existing service). > > > > The client question we discussed before and I tend to agree that > > usually a client you configure is embedded into some other > > functionality that likely has its own configuration, so having a > > grouping is OK. > > > > But since there are SSH servers out there, do we expect this ID to > > just provide groupings and we hope that some other module later comes > > along and picks up the groupings and turns them into a more general > > SSH server configuration model? > > This is my hope, so as to limit the scope of this document. > > > > My understanding is that NC implementations actually come in different > > forms, some simply running behind a regular SSH server while others > > come with their own integrated SSH server. Does this affect the data > > model? > > I think JUNOS is an example where the NC server runs "behind an SSH > server", but it's not really "behind" so much as a fork/exec of an > sshd process running the "netconf" subsystem (i.e., the NC server). > Is this what you meant? > > Regardless, I don't see a need to change either the ietf-netconf-server > or ietf-ssh-server data models to support either the fork/exec or > link-to-library implementation strategies. Do you? Well, if your server is running as a subsystem of your regular SSH daemon, then I think your SSH daemon configuration and your NETCONF specific SSH configuration are essentially the same, no? Or more precisely, you have an SSH daemon configuration plus a statement that enables NETCONF as a subsystem, but you do not have a NETCONF specific SSH configuration. > >> > To create a YANG model for a regular SSH server (for system level or > >> > CLI access), one would have to implement the ietf-keystore model, > >> > write a YANG module to suitably instantiate the > >> > ietf-ssh-server:ssh-server-grouping and likely use some > >> > endpoints-container grouping (well this has not been factored out > >> > yet but I get to this in a different review). > >> > >> Yes, it would be an exercise like this. > > > > So you are saying I guess this is the direction you see this to evolve. > > Yes, I'm hoping to not increase the scope of this draft. I do see it > as a possible future item to define a concrete SSH server data model. > That effort would entail evaluating various implementations to ensure > it captures the most commonly used bits in the base model, and using > features for the less-used parts. Yes, this should not be in this draft but at least it should be clear how this all would integrate, see my comment above. > >> > - In section 2, should there be text that says what happens if there > >> > is not client authentication configured or how to extend this for > >> > authentication types commonly found on the web for instance? > >> > >> Why should there be, isn't that a protocol-specific issue? For > >> instance, per comments from before, the ietf-netconf-client and > >> ietf-restconf-client models add 'must' statements asserting > >> client-authentication is configured. Is this something that > >> should be mentioned in Security Considerations? > > > > I think it would help to spell out 'if no client auth configured, > > there is no client auth; if you want to always have client auth, a > > must statement can be used'. > > Sorry, I misspoke before. The 'must' statements were used elsewhere. > For section 2, /ietf-ssh-client:ssh-client/client-auth/auth-type is > set to mandatory true. So, in this case, client-auth is always > configured, and your original concern unwarranted? Likely. > >> This sounds a lot like what was discussed before about configuring > >> NC/RC clients to authentication to call-home connections. We decided > >> to just support a single set of auth params that would be used for all > >> servers (and not define a server-id to client-auth mapping). So, this > >> grouping may not work well in some examples. Is it okay? > > > > Perhaps not supporting SNI is sufficient for network management > > purposes but then also pretty clearly the TLS groupings are not > > generally usable. > > Thinking about this some more, it seems my previous response > wasn't on target. This isn't about what auth-credentials the > client passes, so much as how the client indicates the server > it wants to connect to in its client hello message. It > seems like something to configure SNI should be added to > ietf-tls-client, how about this? > > +-- server-name-indication > +-- server-name* [name-type] > +-- name-type enumeration (e.g., 'hostname') > +-- name-value anydata (e.g., foobar.example.com) > > And likewise to ietf-tls-server, though I have less idea > how to do it (suggestions welcome!) or, like mentioned above, > maybe it's just how ietf-tls-server is used. On the server side, based on the SNI received, you have to pick the right key and certificate. So there needs to be some mapping. > >> > - The description of the list certificate says "unordered list of > >> > certificates the TLS server can pick from when sending its Server > >> > Certificate message.". So how does the server pick the certificate? > >> > Is the idea that the somewhat vague text takes care of SNI? What if > >> > SNI is not used, which certificate is picked? How does the server > >> > pick the corresponding key? (Or are these certificates assumed to > >> > all be associated with the same key?) > >> > >> I'm looking at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#section-7.4.2: > >> > >> If the server has multiple certificates, it chooses one of them based > >> on the above-mentioned criteria (in addition to other criteria, such > >> as transport layer endpoint, local configuration and preferences, > >> etc.). > > > > So the server magically picks one. This may be OK for the TLS > > spec to say, not sure this is sufficient for a configuration spec. > > Do you want the configuration spec to have a pointer to this part of > the TLS spec? > Well, the TLS spec text does not help me to configure this such that I get the right certificate selected for the SNI presented... /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 02:36:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53CF413232C for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uGHU3kXG2dik for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60D351321C4 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 02:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3070499; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id FBDkS4w6z4uy; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0129200DF; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3WlyvQDW528C; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02554200DE; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id BF384404543E; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 11:36:44 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170821093644.or6onnpthxyy43fl@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170804084238.GA36641@elstar.local> <20170812082233.GA46926@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:36:49 -0000 On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 09:38:40PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Juergen, > > > > >> You made a similar statement for the SSH/TLS modules. I'm not sure > >> why these lists need to be in-sync. For instance, your "contribution" > >> is the "cert-maps" structure from back when you were working on > >> rfc5539bis. It makes sense to add you to the server yang modules that > >> use it, and maybe promote you to draft-author for it, but it wouldn't > >> make sense to add you as an author on the client yang modules that > >> don't use the cert-maps structure. Or maybe we should add everybody > >> everywhere? I don't really care, I'm just trying to understand the > >> rules for such things. Perhaps we should remove Authors from YANG > >> modules altogether, much like we removed WG Chairs before? [I just > >> noticed that you weren't actually listed in the server modules - fixed] > >> > > > > The core of a YANG data model RFC is the YANG data model and hence by > > default I assume RFC author == YANG data model author and I assumed an > > editing glitch here like with the tls/ssh drafts. This is why I wrote > > the comment. I am fine to be removed from these documents; the fact > > that cert-maps are reused does not make me a co-author. > > > > My involvement goes back to draft-kwatsen-netconf-server-00 (January > > 2014) and I think even this was an offspring from some other work, > > call home maybe. But again, I am happy to not be co-author of this > > since these documents have been reorganized and rearranged N times > > during the years anyway and I have not been deeply involved in the > > last iterations. > > I don't think that its right, but if you insist, it's your choice. > Are you sure? I am just saying I do not care that much and I happily leave it to the chairs to judge. If my contribution is the import of the cert-maps, well then this is not a reason to be co-author. > >> > - 3.1 Tree Diagram - What does this tell me? > >> > > >> > Just the container is displayed below, but there is also a grouping > >> > that the container is using. > >> > >> I'm trying to say that the tree output is from: > >> pyang -f tree > >> Not: > >> pyang -f tree --tree-print-groupings > > > > OK. Not sure it is necessary to say that since tree diagrams by > > default show the groupings expanded I think. > > Only protocol-accessible nodes (containers, rpcs, notifications) > are shown. Of course, groupings *used* by containers are also > shown. However, stand-alone groupings are not shown by default, > that requires --tree-print-groupings > > > > I do not know whether the > > official tree diagram formats will have ways to show say a container > > with used groupings collapsed. This may actually be useful sometimes > > but this is not what you are look for here either. I am thinking about > > > > +--rw container > > +-u-- > > +--rw regular-leaf > > > > Clearly, this is for a different threat... > > It might be helpful to have the ability to output a tree diagram that > has not expanded its groupings. But, as you say, for another thread. > Back to the original comment, regarding the sentence in section 3.1 > (and similar sections elsewhere), do you have a proposal for how this > can be said better? You are doing the default, right? So perhaps saying nothing is good. Or if you want to say something, I think I understand you wanted to say something like this: The schema tree is show below, including the expansion of all groupings. > >> > - Is the listening address really optional? Which address is used if > >> > the leaf is not present? I think the description text is confusing > >> > ('of the interfaces' and 'all interfaces') and I would rather make > >> > the address mandatory. How about: > >> > > >> > mandatory true; > >> > description > >> > "The IP address of the endpoint to listen on. Please note that > >> > some addresses have special meanings (e.g., '0.0.0.0' and '::')."; > >> > >> > >> When not specified, the default is for the system to listen to all > >> interfaces, which we should have a way to do. I don't know if special > >> addresses are defined anywhere. I rewrote the description to say that > >> *some* addresses may have similar meanings on *some* systems: > >> > >> "The IP address to listen on for incoming call-home > >> connections. The RESTCONF server will listen on > >> all interfaces if no value is specified. Please > >> note that some addresses may have similar meanings > >> on some systems (e.g., '0.0.0.0' and '::')."; > >> > >> Are these special addresses defined anywhere? > > > > Are there systems where listening on 0.0.0.0 does not mean all IPv4 > > addreses and to listening to :: does not mean all IPv6 addresses? I > > rather have this not optional and use 0.0.0.0 and ::. If you write > > 'all interfaces', does this mean IP interfaces (likely yes), does it > > mean both IPv4 and IPv6 interfaces (unclear), and if so, can I expect > > a single socket using a magic mapping or can I expect two sockets with > > separate address families? I think all this can be avoided by making > > this leaf mandatory and using the ANY addresses. > > Okay, how about this? > > leaf address { > type inet:ip-address; > mandatory true; > description > "The IP address to listen on for incoming connections. > The RESTCONF server will listen on all interfaces if > no value is specified. Please note that INADDR_ANY > (0.0.0.0) or INADDR6_ANY (0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 a.k.a. ::) > MUST be used when the server is to listen on all > IPv4 or IPv6 addresses respectively."; > } > > Do I need any refs for this? > I do still do not know what 'on all interfaces' boils down to, I think this needs to be more clearly defined. Does this imply I have to use v4 mapped addresses of some sort on a dual stack implementation? My experience is that this is more a pain than a feature, if you want to handle any IPv4 address and any IPv6 addresses, it is often better to listen on 0.0.0.0 and in addition on ::. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 08:35:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DE813239E; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 08:35:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: 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s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iWP2T82Cvb4FmoTPRlUGR01bZtTtG92d+C6ANlmJfIk=; b=oRtB4IuiQf2dyskYJDhkCTWAmzo7kRCtp5mB3hqaUM/dAhm+968gLBQPdwDKV9HWRc btedxovl/j95zAYUfaov5HMLxFtJ1Jugneg4tkx4ThkavfubW8OBXqEdqY4VxfVTslv1 m1AhCto+0kvVL0sV0lbzOmipkhFRNtocsTXsGgf3wXqTGC2dT7uHi2TEDPMv7taG4m+A CD+4NbUWid/a9u9d2gQq2nK2+HlqAHIqPyVP+Md5JXgk+k2FEijADgtQMrvMxTKNgRoH 2hMVEAQfxdU/pMAjApkDjv+x1p4vlRR+nFj164a0sZopJ9pXCssYy3F/EViW9PaEjgCy I5qA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iWP2T82Cvb4FmoTPRlUGR01bZtTtG92d+C6ANlmJfIk=; b=DIRq3J5SfMa50HROLuXdqWohoRpIwySe7ocar1phIDkNtJ0p0BOFVh3VYUhZ3Z7ZA2 CxFdorNeUa12FjzF4TeGFcM3iee/U+dtuegEH1Tp+bLRLn4JpW5TmRVhyck7RWyMOr9v /mu+fBOzhyXhTAeW7kdnvUFdo9gTCm+ePb17BX2EX6dz15nJ3Avk+wIQ70j5GSDVDLMk OZgLUFGUZmSa1H13uJXUD7GVPj/lI19y/KW3hLB5F9nMW2IrpvPIIHasbrSIpH8Dcdzi 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Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 16:26:22 -0000 --f403045f219c1faeac055745f046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Trimming down to just the still-open discussion points. > > Thanks, > Kent > > > >>> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. > >>> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, > >>> server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally > >>> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then > >>> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." > >> > >>This seems unnecessary. Already the 'if-feature' statements will > >>force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not > >>configurable! > > > > Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular object, > > because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature > > can make this conditional requirement. But not a big deal > > because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV > > of YANG conformance. > > I don't see this as a big deal. Regardless, it's not for this draft > to resolve, right? > > > right > > > > > > >>>>> C5: > >>>> > >>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET > >>>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > >>> > >>> Okay, how about this? > >>> > >>> "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > >>> e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > >>> from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > >>> close the connection when it is ready to release it. > >>> Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > >>> restarts its timer until the next connection."; > >> > >> Not sure this is needed. > >> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated > >> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain > >> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > > > Oh, now I see your concern, how about this? (I removed the sentence > > altogether): > > > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so that > > the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for > > the RESTCONF server. Once the connection has been > > closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart > > its timer until the next connection."; > > > > I would change messages to requests > > Done. > > > > > >>>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > >>>>> > >>>>> POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > >>>>> > >>>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > >>>> > >>>> First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to > >>>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and > >>>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040? > >>> > >>> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation > >>> resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server > >>> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a > >>> NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right > >>> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I > >>> think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would > >>> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > >> > >> Okay, but can you connect this to the draft? Are you asking for > >> a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification > >> needed for RFC 8040? > > > > not asking for a change. > > It is currently up to the implementation. > > For example CGI will call the server once for each request but > > Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session > > and call the server over and over for each request on that > > session. > > Okay, I'll consider this issue closed then. > > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > > --f403045f219c1faeac055745f046 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Trimming down to just the still-open discussion points.

Thanks,
Kent


>>> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance.
>>> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and &q= uot;purely optional,
>>> server developer's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing lik= e conditionally
>>> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on T= LS , then
>>> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."
>>
>>This seems unnecessary.=C2=A0 Already the 'if-feature' stat= ements will
>>force the server to advertise the features - or else they're no= t
>>configurable!
>
> Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular objec= t,
> because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feat= ure
> can make this conditional requirement.=C2=A0 But not a big deal
> because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV > of YANG conformance.

I don't see this as a big deal.=C2=A0 Regardless, it's not for this= draft
to resolve, right?
=C2=A0


right
=C2=A0





>>>>> C5:
>>>>
>>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a G= ET
>>>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like = logs
>>>
>>> Okay, how about this?
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server,= so that,
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)=
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF clie= nt must
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release = it.
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF clien= t
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.&quo= t;;
>>
>> Not sure this is needed.
>> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated >> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain >> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in th= e 2nd sentence.
>
> Oh, now I see your concern, how about this?=C2=A0 (I removed the sente= nce
> altogether):
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, = so that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending f= or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Once the connection has= been
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 closed, for whatever reason, the server will resta= rt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its timer until the next connection.";
>
> I would change messages to requests

Done.

=C2=A0


>>>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>>>>>
>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netcon= f:close-session
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?
>>>>
>>>> First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 W= ith regards to
>>>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RE= STCONF?=C2=A0 - and
>>>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040?
>>>
>>> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation<= br> >>> resources.=C2=A0 It is left as an implementation detail.=C2=A0= Our server
>>> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a=
>>> NETCONF operation like <lock> is granted and then releas= ed right
>>> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated.=C2= =A0 I
>>> think any standard behavior for application layer sessions wou= ld
>>> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF.
>>
>> Okay, but can you connect this to the draft?=C2=A0 Are you asking = for
>> a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification
>> needed for RFC 8040?
>
> not asking for a change.
> It is currently up to the implementation.
> For example CGI will call the server once for each request but
> Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session
> and call the server over and over for each request on that
> session.

Okay, I'll consider this issue closed then.



> Andy

Kent




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Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.129] ([144.121.38.165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm8603388qkb.91.2017.08.21.10.17.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Bogdanovic Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:17:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <611FE2EF-F273-44E9-A738-0E3653D8A788@juniper.net> Cc: YANG Doctors , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Kent Watsen References: <3ECE1319-255E-4B06-BF97-F4EAFFC3D8B5@gmail.com> <611FE2EF-F273-44E9-A738-0E3653D8A788@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [yang-doctors] Review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:17:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Kent, > On Aug 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > [CC-ing netconf] > =20 > Hi Dean, > =20 > Thanks for your review. > =20 > 1) validating yang-data examples directly is currently not possible. = Neither is validating RESTCONF examples. But my knowledge is limited to = `pyang` (which doesn't validate 1.1-examples at all) and `yanglint` = (which has fairly complete validation ability) > =20 > 2) the need for zerotouch support for LNEs needs to be discussed by = the WG. My personal experience is that only the host-system needs = zerotouch bootstrapping, but I can imagine zerotouch being useful to = support VNFs, or virtual-machines in general. Supporting VMs is = possible with the current draft, but it entails the hypervisor being = able to verify the VM image ("secure boot") and allocate a virtual = IDevID certificate to the VM, both of which are out of scope for this = draft. Do you think we should add an "applicability statement" in the = beginning, or perhaps to Section 5.1, something like this: > =20 > This document primarily regards physical devices, where the setting > of the initial "factory default" state occurs during the device's > manufacturing process. However, the zerotouch solution may be > extensible to virtual machines whereby, for instance, the = host-system > has an IDevID certificate and some ability to verify the virtual > machine's image before loading it and also provision a just-in-time > IDevID certificate. Details for how this may be accomplished can = be > defined in future work. Yes, I agree with this comment, as is specify more narrowly the = intention on how to use the modules. Dean > =20 > Thoughts? > =20 > Kent > =20 > =20 > On 8/18/17, 3:02 PM, "yang-doctors on behalf of Dean Bogdanovic" = on = behalf of ivandean@gmail.com > wrote: > =20 > Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic > Review result: Ready with caveat >=20 >=20 > Modules:=20 > ietf-zerotouch-information.yang > ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang > =20 > YANG Usage: >=20 > I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no tools to = valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module. > So couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with pyang and = lintyang tools. >=20 > Comments: > 1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t get the full validation with the = tools of the modules, but looking through the code and the draft, the = authors are following the general recommendations by = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with moving the draft = along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed very soon, as = there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be able to get = validated. > =20 > 2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see how this modules would work well with = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That draft describes how different virtual = systems with different administrators can run on the same HW. How can we = boot different versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or should it = state that this draft has no plans to support use cases described in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Dean > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Kent,

On = Aug 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>= wrote:

[CC-ing netconf]
 
Hi Dean,
 
Thanks for = your review.
 
1) = validating yang-data examples directly is currently not possible.  = Neither is validating RESTCONF examples.  But my knowledge is = limited to `pyang` (which doesn't validate 1.1-examples at all) and = `yanglint` (which has fairly complete validation ability)
 
2) the need = for zerotouch support for LNEs needs to be discussed by the = WG.   My personal experience is that only the host-system = needs zerotouch bootstrapping, but I can imagine zerotouch being useful = to support VNFs, or virtual-machines in general.   Supporting = VMs is possible with the current draft, but it entails the hypervisor = being able to verify the VM image ("secure boot") and allocate a virtual = IDevID certificate to the VM, both of which are out of scope for this = draft.   Do you think we should add an "applicability = statement" in the beginning, or perhaps to Section 5.1, something like = this:
 
   = This document primarily regards physical devices, where the setting
   of the initial = "factory default" state occurs during the device's
   manufacturing = process.  However, the zerotouch solution may be
   extensible to = virtual machines whereby, for instance, the host-system
   has an IDevID = certificate and some ability to verify the virtual
   machine's image = before loading it and also provision a just-in-time
   IDevID = certificate.  Details for how this may be accomplished can be
   defined in = future work.

Yes, I agree with this comment, as is specify more = narrowly the intention on how to use the modules.

Dean

 
Thoughts?
 
Kent
 
 
On 8/18/17, 3:02 PM, "yang-doctors on behalf of = Dean Bogdanovic" <yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ivandean@gmail.com> = wrote:
 
Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic
Review = result: Ready with caveat


Modules: 
ietf-zerotouch-information.yang
ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang
 
YANG Usage:

I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no = tools to valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module.
So couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with = pyang and lintyang tools.

Comments:
1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t get the full validation = with the tools of the modules, but looking through the code and the = draft, the authors are following the general recommendations by = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with moving the draft = along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed very soon, as = there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be able to get = validated.
 
2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see = how this modules would work well with draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That = draft describes how different virtual systems with different = administrators can run on the same HW. How can we boot different = versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or should it state that this = draft has no plans to support use cases described in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model.
 
Regards,
 
Dean
 
 

 

= --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41-- From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:30:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9004E1323C9 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7h2x62svIic for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F6BB132441 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4075399; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cDIgE8gb-foI; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08043200E0; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19x08vbIJaP3; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876DD200DF; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 77D8640460AB; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:30:15 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170821173015.izxbccusjzo45hv7@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> <20170815063010.g3gng6dfs3nbmi7r@elstar.local> <2913A1E9-5413-4A9B-BBA6-919AF72BD3E8@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2913A1E9-5413-4A9B-BBA6-919AF72BD3E8@juniper.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:30:20 -0000 On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 05:13:12PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > Now we're down to just this last open discussion point. > > > >> > - security considerations > >> > > >> > There is a warning that max-sessions != 0 may be exploited for a > >> > denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to have in the > >> > first place? > >> > >> It's important to production servers to constrain resources. > >> That said, we could debate if it needs to be a configurable > >> value. Another fix to the security-consideration text is > >> either remove '0' as an option or re-define '0' to mean > >> "use system preference". Thoughts? > > > > The question is whether a simple minded max-session really helps since > > it opens the floor to new attacks (and I note that it defaults to no > > limit anyway). Anyway, I assume 'session' here means an established > > NETCONF session, so the client must have successfully authenticated. > > Perhaps my interpretation of what 'session' means is wrong and you > > mean the max number of established TCP connections? But then the > > denial of service potential is even worse. > > I think that this field came from what YumaPro supports, hopefully > Andy chimes in. Just the same, the intent is for authenticated > sessions (standard TLS timeout and hello timeout should shed idle > TCP and TLS sessions respectively). > > To be clearer here, we're discussing a very benign form of DoS; as > you say, the clients are authenticated. The issue would manifest > itself when clients are somehow malfunctioning, not closing sessions > as expediently as they should. > But then you probably want an idle timeout mechanism and not a hard max-session limit. If malfunctioning clients do not close sessions, you lock yourself out sooner or later with a max-session limit. Anyway, I think it should be clarified what 'session' means. The question is whether these leafs are commonly implemented and generally believed to be useful in order to standardize them. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:32:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E961323C9 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DFKqZRzhBG0P for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CDA113235B for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id k46so30296252wre.2 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1rluse2a6XFesqnWyVVJ2la+ylaGYuZywzMsGj3nYgw=; b=QYTi2bBlnfW+W3hgMoqS46Q39zAPr77HXbWMGRz1frMAj130Bq032CwtPU+dZdZ48e 9LZzlVmugbXuhahCXKaGzA45o4xkmHSE4NjEalsxzOGKMQhU6PbqyLXHPvT98RBZSzmE RzhBIZyg5tx2L8Qh7F4MG9VvBHeTMcnYq1AqVpDZmvoUO9uf6PEF4EOAIaHCcLXiqFGm 3JWLXbyM0EyYDyIFhDZFZrFxKqlfowC3zDOfub3cmXUAn1P/5+p2+xSwu6UfIftWDl2W wmKoo2+eSBrW0GyPpg4b4VodqrAQ0/YWqzvoA9Ho9hJhTJN73Ti39k0xbecF3wwbB+NN Vw8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1rluse2a6XFesqnWyVVJ2la+ylaGYuZywzMsGj3nYgw=; b=lXPh8fR1RS/t4ZMW36Lh+Mi+7oAJCuDPmllbfPYnOu9hhWHTovpga3tGzU1riMTowC 7P4Y22aJ39s7XqJA4aGGMMKzDy4UA355dGD8wvvLfawh2G4vUhTh5lvzFMJhobeEzubN BUaneUJcTyDsVNtSaXaDlhz7+iCnh0VTulkaJOzrZw6HG2hVOdFzkO+TEj0m7MHyHh74 HAfSiKrtzqEYxK3ZaW/szoFk414RTtoxvGB+5orNupd9rRJzjE/fosMpcGNtsEq6JRlD BGF2sL1VASBRV7ftSXdEonPur1xjOpdPS5WHT6CFdhtW91bTUPLvOzD0TBOoMeiJtpCP IscA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5j0pz9riKjym+fN9mUS/3N2EywqYQCNZfp/aEZTPTeV0mGthXXI iRXA5D22ydRiIx9oJLLjxH1OWdvpcUtd X-Received: by 10.223.171.79 with SMTP id r15mr10826842wrc.57.1503336733122; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.129 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2913A1E9-5413-4A9B-BBA6-919AF72BD3E8@juniper.net> References: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> <20170815063010.g3gng6dfs3nbmi7r@elstar.local> <2913A1E9-5413-4A9B-BBA6-919AF72BD3E8@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:12 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cb818f4b8c9055746db73" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:32:17 -0000 --94eb2c1cb818f4b8c9055746db73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, max-sessions is for constraining resources, not a security parameter. It can be removed if it is not common. Andy On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > Now we're down to just this last open discussion point. > > > >> > - security considerations > >> > > >> > There is a warning that max-sessions != 0 may be exploited for a > >> > denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to have in the > >> > first place? > >> > >> It's important to production servers to constrain resources. > >> That said, we could debate if it needs to be a configurable > >> value. Another fix to the security-consideration text is > >> either remove '0' as an option or re-define '0' to mean > >> "use system preference". Thoughts? > > > > The question is whether a simple minded max-session really helps since > > it opens the floor to new attacks (and I note that it defaults to no > > limit anyway). Anyway, I assume 'session' here means an established > > NETCONF session, so the client must have successfully authenticated. > > Perhaps my interpretation of what 'session' means is wrong and you > > mean the max number of established TCP connections? But then the > > denial of service potential is even worse. > > I think that this field came from what YumaPro supports, hopefully > Andy chimes in. Just the same, the intent is for authenticated > sessions (standard TLS timeout and hello timeout should shed idle > TCP and TLS sessions respectively). > > To be clearer here, we're discussing a very benign form of DoS; as > you say, the clients are authenticated. The issue would manifest > itself when clients are somehow malfunctioning, not closing sessions > as expediently as they should. > > > > K. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --94eb2c1cb818f4b8c9055746db73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

max-sessions is for constraining re= sources, not a security parameter.
It can be removed if it is not= common.

Andy


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:= 13 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Juergen,

Now we're down to just this last open discussion point.


>> > - security considerations
>> >
>> >=C2=A0 There is a warning that max-sessions !=3D 0 may be expl= oited for a
>> >=C2=A0 denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to hav= e in the
>> >=C2=A0 first place?
>>
>> It's important to production servers to constrain resources. >> That said, we could debate if it needs to be a configurable
>> value.=C2=A0 Another fix to the security-consideration text is
>> either remove '0' as an option or re-define '0' to= mean
>> "use system preference".=C2=A0 Thoughts?
>
> The question is whether a simple minded max-session really helps since=
> it opens the floor to new attacks (and I note that it defaults to no > limit anyway). Anyway, I assume 'session' here means an establ= ished
> NETCONF session, so the client must have successfully authenticated. > Perhaps my interpretation of what 'session' means is wrong and= you
> mean the max number of established TCP connections? But then the
> denial of service potential is even worse.

I think that this field came from what YumaPro supports, hopefully
Andy chimes in.=C2=A0 Just the same, the intent is for authenticated
sessions (standard TLS timeout and hello timeout should shed idle
TCP and TLS sessions respectively).

To be clearer here, we're discussing a very benign form of DoS; as
you say, the clients are authenticated.=C2=A0 The issue would manifest
itself when clients are somehow malfunctioning, not closing sessions
as expediently as they should.



K.



_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Aug 2017 22:04:08.8821 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB2027 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:04:13 -0000 QWxsLA0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIHN0YXJ0IG9mIGEgdHdvLXdlZWsgcG9sbCBvbiBtYWtpbmcgdGhlIGZv bGxvd2luZyBkcmFmdCBhDQpORVRDT05GIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgZG9jdW1lbnQ6DQoNCiAgZHJh ZnQtemhlbmctbmV0Y29uZi11ZHAtcHViLWNoYW5uZWwtMDAgWzFdDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZW5kIGVt YWlsIHRvIHRoZSBsaXN0IGluZGljYXRpbmcgInllcy9zdXBwb3J0IiBvciAibm8vZG8gbm90DQpz 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b=gBjgPt/VE+V2DCvZZDPt2S01nQ0jjrJS8elyTBgLjURIu6XDtxd5hMltGDl1GzwQIRyhpYUkddP3vGkTRa1eg+4fAhx3OtWAvOB4bZuMR6ptdufgrBhX4Z9b8/TOpVUkFcCh/oGsz0y/bfhjQx9YZHvplhgOuI2Wo5H5P8jfKmw= Received: from CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.149.11) by CY1PR0501MB1737.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.140.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1385.4; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:05:37 +0000 Received: from CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.149.11]) by CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.149.11]) with mapi id 15.01.1385.008; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:05:37 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "zhengguangying@huawei.com" , "zhoutianran@huawei.com" , "alexander.clemm@huawei.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGsme7yVk36M2W06qG1Xz6niIog== Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:05:37 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Aug 2017 22:05:37.2905 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1737 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:05:40 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywNCg0KQXMgcGFydCBvZiBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBmb3IgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24gb2YgImRy YWZ0LXpoZW5nLW5ldGNvbmYtdWRwLXB1Yi1jaGFubmVsLTAwIiwgYXJlIHlvdSBhd2FyZSBvZiBh bnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Pw0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc3RhdGUgZWl0aGVy Og0KICAgICJObywgSSdtIG5vdCBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlz 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Aug 2017 22:05:57 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmq2KiStu0LpUC+dtqUvYwssQ== Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:05:57 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR0501MB1737; 6:ekilOYJFXk/TypU+OuSv5No8CZgrqdjCV/77lq8Q5GQuNvVNYYPRHPqnIiwGVyF2U064Uq4NZ1Dq89XBmPMCmYgyt0y/qvaIXxp+j+i97xyLSbdsSRWRMV2m4ybYgwNNc2Dx8Jhfw49XaZQ6O3UG7fh1xE/CoVmpgV6cOMVvb3DQx67ekRa8llQymKGje2BIlIFgNPnqlS9NrwupgAxJ9nTW32BhqxwTsu+qd8eFKKVd6MmuBUnp2bTvO4ACrc1ZGzqiqlQ8kWXGcY5/ug5yL2EuMcJEGQ4M+MMvZVclTxPbOui/MULQPdBfah2NJovPRmAXjXklMeFzNja4fMDi9g==; 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(protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Aug 2017 22:05:57.5723 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1737 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:06:00 -0000 DQpBbGwsDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgc3RhcnQgb2YgYSB0d28td2VlayBwb2xsIG9uIG1ha2luZyB0aGUg 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AQHTGsmvQpgXRYM8T0idt1h9zSemOg== Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:06:05 +0000 Message-ID: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR0501MB1164; 6:aIE0xh+zH1z6xKr2U1dHmwvgxqYccmaX8TGqaQ/jvO+nlKlvrdppO/+jpa94jMN6oCDR6TQd4Jr9J5PyWpeGRBAeWs6kQGc9kJHO0sMopaBMmJXlWe4Pt07BhPhez8qKOvlygxZx+7dJpe1xkMuFu7YNNuL4PEA/a/u6bUPg10DXGEE8B2fFaU1n1Tzj3qT2Nm3F33UEL2sfJlpW8Lg/j6Ed0wLr9IlNXpsCBxpDCmBlEyLsSqqTFhn325snyLW/8wNrJ/Gd01jr43cCirJzhEEitfeiUU42UZm79DvgliQ0NpzgBYQ3zZe7jORl7BRv3SiKPZNTTqh8Y26BHHBrtg==; 5:b34utXYdLlWHpAaErh1UJcnOy6vsEYniwgTl5NRevImN6JftkqSuuVJ5bJcfcsHq900EKBW7DXZkiBC8Ys3F1OMhdDN9dKTvA5P7DHxrwzk3OMYE8nkJ4suH+d/05xiYqeIGsW+VAwfPbUDJ1qJSBA==; 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juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Aug 2017 22:06:05.6975 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1164 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:06:11 -0000 QXV0aG9ycywNCg0KQXMgcGFydCBvZiBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBmb3IgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24gb2YgImRy YWZ0LXZvaXQtbmV0Y29uZi1ub3RpZmljYXRpb24tbWVzc2FnZXMtMDEiLCBhcmUgeW91IGF3YXJl IG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQ/DQoNClBsZWFzZSBzdGF0ZSBl aXRoZXI6DQogICAgIk5vLCBJJ20gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRv 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Lizhenbin To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKPmyOg Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 01:46:26 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.206.84] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.599B8CFD.002C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.233, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: dc0b2cdaf3cd2f172b818e57f07f3632 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] 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(amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id oDoBxOu9Rmkm; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004B7200E1; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h30OozsuLLUZ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1465200E0; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 96DFA4046B11; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:22:03 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170822062203.tpisslwgbstdout2@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170803112619.GA35785@elstar.local> <2465A343-16D3-4DD1-9AF8-6007D108084A@juniper.net> <20170811142428.GD46402@elstar.local> <20170821092717.menstdafm6dpw6at@elstar.local> <3676A0F4-4631-42C6-B1E6-259ADA247C37@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3676A0F4-4631-42C6-B1E6-259ADA247C37@juniper.net> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 and draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:22:10 -0000 On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:09:27PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > > >> >> For the ssh-client-server draft > >> >> =============================== > >> >> > >> >> > - The overall setup is somewhat complicated but I do understand why. > >> >> > Obviously, the attempts to make things generic come with a price > >> >> > since many YANG definitions interact with other definitions that > >> >> > need to be understood. And while the end result is that we can > >> >> > configure SSH clients and servers for NETCONF, we only have a > >> >> > collection of groupings to configure a regular SSH client or > >> >> > server. Should we have an instantiation of these groupings for > >> >> > regular SSH clients and servers as well? > >> >> > >> >> I'm hoping to not have to do this, but can see that there might be > >> >> value in doing so in order to further proof-out the model. To do > >> >> this right would entail something like what Clyde did for the syslog > >> >> model in evaluating many vendor's implementations to find a common > >> >> denominator. I can imagine the WG undertaking such an analysis for > >> >> an SSH-server container, but I fail to see how it could be done for > >> >> an SSH-client container. Also, when thinking about symmetry to the > >> >> tls-client-server draft, note that the idea of creating a container > >> >> for a TLS-server doesn't make sense (which one, right?) > >> > > >> > Yes, for TLS there is no a common standalone TLS service. For SSH, > >> > there is however since SSH was created for a specific service (while > >> > TLS was created as a plugin to secure another existing service). > >> > > >> > The client question we discussed before and I tend to agree that > >> > usually a client you configure is embedded into some other > >> > functionality that likely has its own configuration, so having a > >> > grouping is OK. > >> > > >> > But since there are SSH servers out there, do we expect this ID to > >> > just provide groupings and we hope that some other module later comes > >> > along and picks up the groupings and turns them into a more general > >> > SSH server configuration model? > >> > >> This is my hope, so as to limit the scope of this document. > >> > >> > >> > My understanding is that NC implementations actually come in different > >> > forms, some simply running behind a regular SSH server while others > >> > come with their own integrated SSH server. Does this affect the data > >> > model? > >> > >> I think JUNOS is an example where the NC server runs "behind an SSH > >> server", but it's not really "behind" so much as a fork/exec of an > >> sshd process running the "netconf" subsystem (i.e., the NC server). > >> Is this what you meant? > >> > >> Regardless, I don't see a need to change either the ietf-netconf-server > >> or ietf-ssh-server data models to support either the fork/exec or > >> link-to-library implementation strategies. Do you? > > > > Well, if your server is running as a subsystem of your regular SSH > > daemon, then I think your SSH daemon configuration and your NETCONF > > specific SSH configuration are essentially the same, no? Or more > > precisely, you have an SSH daemon configuration plus a statement that > > enables NETCONF as a subsystem, but you do not have a NETCONF specific > > SSH configuration. > > Not exactly. There's SSH listening on port 22 and then there is SSH > listening on port 830. When listening on 830, it can be a separate > instance of `sshd` and given unique startup parameters (e.g., the > sshd_config file). It is not expected that this configuration > (ietf-netconf-server) would ever influence the SSH listening on > port 22. So are you running a separate SSH server just for NETCONF or not? I am not asking about 'it _can_ be given unique parameters'. > Back to if the implementation strategy can affects the data model, my > assertion is that the startup parameters are equally applicable, whether > using the fork/exec (e.g., instances of `sshd`) or the link-to-library > (e.g., a python script), and therefore I don't think the implementation > strategy affects the data model. The question is whether there is a separate SSH daemon for NETCONF or NETCONF is just hooked up the SSH daemon also used for other services. I think this does make a difference, no? > > >> >> This sounds a lot like what was discussed before about configuring > >> >> NC/RC clients to authentication to call-home connections. We decided > >> >> to just support a single set of auth params that would be used for all > >> >> servers (and not define a server-id to client-auth mapping). So, this > >> >> grouping may not work well in some examples. Is it okay? > >> > > >> > Perhaps not supporting SNI is sufficient for network management > >> > purposes but then also pretty clearly the TLS groupings are not > >> > generally usable. > >> > >> Thinking about this some more, it seems my previous response > >> wasn't on target. This isn't about what auth-credentials the > >> client passes, so much as how the client indicates the server > >> it wants to connect to in its client hello message. It > >> seems like something to configure SNI should be added to > >> ietf-tls-client, how about this? > >> > >> +-- server-name-indication > >> +-- server-name* [name-type] > >> +-- name-type enumeration (e.g., 'hostname') > >> +-- name-value anydata (e.g., foobar.example.com) > >> > > Second guessing myself here, does this really need to be configuration > or is the client-side of SNI just a function of how the code works? It is the server side that matters I think. > > > > Well, the TLS spec text does not help me to configure this such that I > > get the right certificate selected for the SNI presented... > > Peaking at TLS 1.3, draft-ietf-tls-tls13-21#section-4.4.2.2 says: > > - The "server_name" and "certificate_authorities" extensions > [RFC6066] are used to *guide certificate selection*. > > and in S4.2.4 it says: > > The "trusted_ca_keys" extension, which serves a similar purpose > [RFC6066], but is more complicated, is not used in TLS 1.3 (although > it may appear in ClientHello messages from clients which are offering > prior versions of TLS). > > So, there's at least 3 different ways that the server can go about > selecting which certificates it sends. To me, this again seems like > something maybe the server's code does internally - e.g., it sifts > through all the certs it has (i.e. list certificate in the YANG model), > sending the subset matching protocol-level criteria. Do you know? > > Peaking at NGINX config, it seems to have a config like: > > +--- server* [ ] > +--- listen inet:port // 443 > +--- server_name string // example.com > +--- root string // /usr/share/nginx/www > +--- ssl Boolean // on > +--- ssl_certificate // /etc/nginx/ssl/example.org/server.crt; > +--- ssl_certificate_key // /etc/nginx/ssl/example.org/server.key; > > Note that the TLS-part of the config has been splayed across the > app-specific config. By contrast, the groupings we have now are more > for a single SSL host (not virtual hosting). We could add 'sni-to-name' > mapping structures, but we it be helpful to complex TLS apps like NGINX? > I think the key here is server_name as this allows nginx to multiplex incoming connections to the "right" list instance, i.e., I can have multiple server configured to listen on the same port and the TLS SNI indication provides a hint which list instance is used and this implies the correct security parameters. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 23:43:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3D01321A3; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:43:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VmI1tibwVg8f; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net [194.109.24.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F79B132063; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.xs4all.nl ([IPv6:2001:888:0:22:194:109:20:203]) by smtp-cloud8.xs4all.net with ESMTPA id k2tqdgfeQcQyLk2tqdc7FH; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:42:55 +0200 Received: from ip565c6c1e.direct-adsl.nl ([86.92.108.30]) by webmail.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:42:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:42:53 +0200 From: peter van der Stok To: Kent Watsen Cc: consultancy@vanderstok.org, anima-chairs@ietf.org, 6tisch@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org, Sheng Jiang Organization: vanderstok consultancy Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org In-Reply-To: <599334D6-083B-45B2-B3CB-0D048D2BAEAF@juniper.net> References: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B927CE3D826@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <76229c58f5d60d3a0c185c6645ba4355@xs4all.nl> <3F9D68E6-57C9-48EF-A4EB-3CA8B613D42D@juniper.net> <1fee7f82c855def7345d506fbb720dbc@xs4all.nl> <8168023A-AC1F-4A7E-B8BA-026651EFEF33@juniper.net> <599334D6-083B-45B2-B3CB-0D048D2BAEAF@juniper.net> Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDc8oNaiazrr/FhhBYnA0smw6VxESOwE9ynzDByo0WKkZMF42cA+cOyHal7SW+mk9WFaZRLI1zafhqBw2lxIcKQSsAwWOtl80m2gYt6JHtr92cKH5Q5K HRfVTsgDQ6kbBzmwDe/FPn1Y51P3rIHw0s7hM5n3qfmqYbuxQalxcGXrB+4wVPv++t+Yc6lT23s71ZDwrYu904l+7Nbr4ILFarf6Lg7pMNtgnaUiPu6Yhc0G m3tSepirBbcidR131Kj3qvktQTACbAO4Yl2+hRIW/lRinOD3Bz9Op51RLcxfcxcC Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] [6tisch] [Anima] Cross-WGs WGLC (second) on draft-ietf-anima-voucher-04 - Respond by Aug 08, 2017 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:43:02 -0000 Hi Kent, Thanks for your work, Peter Kent Watsen schreef op 2017-08-21 17:53: > Hi Peter, > > Thanks, I think we've reached closure. > Please review the diffs to the latest. > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-voucher-05 > > Thanks again, > Kent > > > -- > > Hi Kent, > >>>> Can a discussion section about "manufacturer additions" be >>>> added. Pointing out the consequences for interoperability >>>> when using "Augment" to add manufacturer specifics can be >>>> helpful. >>> >>> I'm confused, which section does this comment regard? >> >> It refers to the document as a whole and especially section 7. >> Usually, manufacturers want manufacturer-specific additions to >> documents. >> They may consider to use Augment for that purpose. >> My suggestion is to discuss ways to add manufacturer additions to the >> voucher and the consequences. >> That may turn out to be a big NO-NO to manufacturer additions. >> I think it would be worthwhile to point that out. >> >> Are you asking for the voucher to contain a node >> called something like 'opaque' having YANG type 'anyData'? >> A sanctioned place where the MASA can stash some extra >> stuff not defined by this document? Recall that some of >> the motivation for this work being standardized is to >> enable inspection by intermediates, and while the opaque >> data could be presented to a human, it might be base64 >> data. Any concerns bout that? > > > My suggestion is a discussion not a standardization. So, no additions > to > the voucher in this document. > However, pointing out the base64 format would be helpful for those > thinking about an addition with opaque. > >> >>> page 4, Voucher: add: that "acknowledges ownership of the pledge and" >>> indicates... >>> >>> what does "acknowledges ownership of the pledge" mean? how >>> is it different than "indicates to a Pledge the cryptographic >>> identity >>> of the Domain it should trust"? >> >> Now I am confused. I thought it was 2 ways. Pledge trusts domain, and >> domain partners trust pledge. >> >> The pledge trusts the MASA (which signs the voucher) and then >> the pledge trusts the domain (whose cert is inside the voucher). >> Perhaps you're conflating signing the voucher with acknowledging >> ownership? > > > I am afraid, that I made the voucher responsible for all keyinfra > protocol objectives. > Sorry, for the confusion. > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > 6tisch mailing list > 6tisch@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/6tisch From nobody Mon Aug 21 23:43:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5208B132063 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zN-b2MBiwtVa for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699981321A2 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 23:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F194C1AE02C9; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:43:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:42:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170822.084219.186808426218227153.mbj@tail-f.com> To: mjethanandani@gmail.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG LC for draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:43:53 -0000 Hi, I am not aware of any IPR related to this document. The tail-f software (ConfD and NSO) already implements NACM for RESTCONF, including actions. /martin Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > As part of the LC issued back in April, the chairs had asked for the authors to indicate if they are aware of any IPR. In the long discussion that followed, that request got lost. Can each of the authors individually indicate if they are aware of any IPRs. > > Also if anyone is aware of any implementations of this draft, please indicate that too. > > Thanks. > > > On Apr 18, 2017, at 5:34 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > > > NETCONF WG, > > > > In IETF 98, the authors indicated that the above draft was ready for Last Call, and the consensus in the room indicated as much. > > > > This is a start of a 2 week WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis. After two weeks, the document will be assigned a shepherd, and the document will be prepared for IESG. > > > > The latest version of the draft can be found at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-01 > > > > Please review and send any comments to the WG mailing list or by responding to this e-mail. Comments can be statements such as, I read/reviewed the document and believe it is ready for publication, or I have concerns about the document. For the latter, please indicate what your concerns are. > > > > Any reports on implementation status or plans to implement are also very useful. > > > > Authors, please indicate if you are aware of any IPRs related to the draft. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Mahesh and Mehmet > > > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > From nobody Tue Aug 22 00:57:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C5A126B71 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 00:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 85flAi52eTue for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 00:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14FC2132925 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 00:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB4BC1AE02C9; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:57:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:55:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170822.095549.31250933146131636.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jclarke@cisco.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Request for new groupings in ietf-yang-library X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: 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b=tnqDo8yybDmKGERqarHKwGjG2KvVN2Y3NsaTfP9bZv8il50WXgWLdXKi960iSGoyUU 9+CA2oa1iZdWXsobPnyr58UKaGEmqps5sRgaDmzVbhky/xnlv9pMrvvTOXy1THphxxZK hS/lOXC5i5YHp7wLSzV/pRaqNx5OkLQL14vdsbXp0XRgAtV0qBcD/x/hG/BEfT+EWEuZ 4ROOSEchwNIfYoOCdrhXtmAGXt8sMe9R+b7VI8YOsdt5LZH1RsL6oSIAnN/ZxT/Xh1tM B+zZUW1iA7Gn41relbIqXj4iwoq1voE61rjqfd/2hQFKCHcVlT6y+rtgHGkFJaSoaARY kwmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hbbd0807HYKdrcYRkbfBgWYIZARdE3Icogw4CKp0JMa730UrdP zAb8yoQI+CO5cYTKy/o= X-Received: by 10.223.163.199 with SMTP id m7mr192359wrb.128.1503398323542; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 03:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-giheron-nitro3.cisco.com ([173.38.220.36]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 55sm11110533wrv.32.2017.08.22.03.38.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 03:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Giles Heron In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:39:04 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> To: "netconf@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:38:48 -0000 There seem to be a few issues with this draft: 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests generating = it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. Perhaps an = EUI-64 makes more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP = packets tend to have source IP addresses? Or are you thinking in terms = of NAT? Or of correlating notifications from different line-cards on = the same system that may have different source IP addresses? 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and says = those are as per RFC3339. =46rom my reading of RFC3339 it encodes = dates/times as strings. 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems like a = strange choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable delivery? Or = re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see issues with = TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on UDP is better than = TCP). 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting encodings, = adding authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work = you can reuse there rather than defining your own. sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say anything = we didn=E2=80=99t know already... Giles > On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin wrote: >=20 > Yes/Support. >=20 > Best Regards, > Zhenbin(Robin) >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6=97=A5= 6:04 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >=20 > All, >=20 > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a = NETCONF working group document: >=20 > draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] >=20 > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not = support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the = document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like = to see addressed once the document is a WG document. >=20 >=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >=20 >=20 > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 22 05:49:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0BC132977 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 05:48:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="285892370" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Aug 2017 12:48:56 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7MCmtUA016920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:48:56 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:48:55 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:48:55 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "ludwig@clemm.org" , "Tim Jenkins (timjenki)" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmvQpgXRYM8T0idt1h9zSemOqKQVFPg Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:48:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 12:48:59 -0000 Tm8sIEknbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUiB0aGF0IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gdGhpcyBkcmFmdA0K DQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IEtlbnQgV2F0c2VuIFttYWls dG86a3dhdHNlbkBqdW5pcGVyLm5ldF0NCj4gU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMjEsIDIwMTcg NjowNiBQTQ0KPiBUbzogRXJpYyBWb2l0IChldm9pdCkgPGV2b2l0QGNpc2NvLmNvbT47IGFuZHlA eXVtYXdvcmtzLmNvbTsNCj4gbHVkd2lnQGNsZW1tLm9yZzsgVGltIEplbmtpbnMgKHRpbWplbmtp KSA8dGltamVua2lAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KPiBDYzogbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgSVBSIG9uIGRyYWZ0LXZvaXQtbmV0Y29uZi1ub3RpZmljYXRpb24tbWVzc2Fn ZXMtMDENCj4gDQo+IEF1dGhvcnMsDQo+IA0KPiBBcyBwYXJ0IG9mIHByZXBhcmF0aW9uIGZvciBX RyBBZG9wdGlvbiBvZiAiZHJhZnQtdm9pdC1uZXRjb25mLW5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbi0NCj4gbWVzc2Fn ZXMtMDEiLCBhcmUgeW91IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJh ZnQ/DQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2Ugc3RhdGUgZWl0aGVyOg0KPiAgICAgIk5vLCBJJ20gbm90IGF3YXJl IG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQiDQo+ICAgb3INCj4gICAgICJZ ZXMsIEknbSBhd2FyZSBvZiBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQiDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gSWYgc28sIGhhcyB0aGlzIElQUiBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZCBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIHdpdGgg SUVURiBJUFIgcnVsZXMgKHNlZSBSRkNzDQo+IDM5NzksIDQ4NzksIDM2NjkgYW5kIDUzNzggZm9y IG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscyk/DQo+IA0KPiBJZiB5ZXMgdG8gdGhlIGFib3ZlLCBwbGVhc2Ugc3RhdGUg ZWl0aGVyOg0KPiAgICAgIlllcywgdGhlIElQUiBoYXMgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgaW4gY29tcGxp YW5jZSB3aXRoIElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIg0KPiAgIG9yDQo+ICAgICAiTm8sIHRoZSBJUFIgaGFz IG5vdCBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3NlZCINCj4gDQo+IElmIHlvdSBhbnN3ZXIgbm8sIHBsZWFzZSBwcm92 aWRlIGFueSBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGRldGFpbHMgeW91IHRoaW5rIGFwcHJvcHJpYXRlLg0KPiANCj4g DQo+IElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbGlzdGVkIGFzIGEgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9y LCBwbGVhc2UgYW5zd2VyIHRoZSBhYm92ZQ0KPiBieSByZXNwb25kaW5nIHRvIHRoaXMgZW1haWwg cmVnYXJkbGVzcyBvZiB3aGV0aGVyIG9yIG5vdCB5b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueQ0KPiByZWxl dmFudCBJUFIuIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2lsbCBub3QgYWR2YW5jZSB0byB0aGUgbmV4dCBzdGFn ZSB1bnRpbCBhIHJlc3BvbnNlDQo+IGhhcyBiZWVuIHJlY2VpdmVkIGZyb20gZWFjaCBhdXRob3Ig YW5kIGxpc3RlZCBjb250cmlidXRvci4gTk9URTogVEhJUyBBUFBMSUVTDQo+IFRPIEFMTCBPRiBZ T1UgTElTVEVEIElOIFRISVMgTUVTU0FHRSdTIFRPIExJTkVTLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IElmIHlvdSBh cmUgb24gdGhlIFdHIGVtYWlsIGxpc3Qgb3IgYXR0ZW5kIFdHIG1lZXRpbmdzIGJ1dCBhcmUgbm90 IGxpc3RlZCBhcyBhbg0KPiBhdXRob3Igb3IgY29udHJpYnV0b3IsIHdlIHJlbWluZCB5b3Ugb2Yg eW91ciBvYmxpZ2F0aW9ucyB1bmRlciB0aGUgSUVURiBJUFINCj4gcnVsZXMgd2hpY2ggZW5jb3Vy YWdlcyB5b3UgdG8gbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBJRVRGIGlmIHlvdSBhcmUgYXdhcmUgb2YgSVBSIG9mIG90 aGVycw0KPiBvbiBhbiBJRVRGIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiwgb3IgdG8gcmVmcmFpbiBmcm9tIHBhcnRp Y2lwYXRpbmcgaW4gYW55IGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBvcg0KPiBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHJlbGF0ZWQgdG8g eW91ciB1bmRpc2Nsb3NlZCBJUFIuIEZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBwbGVhc2Ugc2VlIHRo ZQ0KPiBSRkNzIGxpc3RlZCBhYm92ZSBhbmQNCj4gaHR0cDovL3RyYWMudG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcv Z3JvdXAvaWVzZy90cmFjL3dpa2kvSW50ZWxsZWN0dWFsUHJvcGVydHkuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGFuayB5 b3UsDQo+IEtlbnQgKGFuZCBNYWhlc2gpDQo+IA0KPiBQUyBQbGVhc2UgaW5jbHVkZSBhbGwgbGlz dGVkIGluIHRoZSBoZWFkZXJzIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpbiB5b3VyIHJlc3BvbnNlLg0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Aug 22 06:03:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BA91329B1 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YX6R-TVwpXwV for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lb3-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb3-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AA4313239A for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Macintosh-4.fritz.box ([IPv6:2001:981:602b:1:917b:a599:5bc3:6fb3]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPSA id k8pfdL9gMAr7rk8pjdUeS3; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:03:09 +0200 To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:02:59 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIyHV4kG3vgS2o3GkN6qvGG+93r4L/+j7d5tmqGMzvC7WHeNb0NIwEmLWLjKLiXYicssJ9d49OxILpJZ3a2gAMkK92G+7dtUFGu7WpCwrvPYLfwrjNHA ooIpFvEFEfSVn1J6C3Hd26nvE8hX5NYp1xHEPkQrb1vHJXpAmk8oyAH3q7VqBfjO632lvWzETngW9f9Y4akDSxhLKN7NXCZCTOl3JyAH5nZTbh+eQ08vaiVm ca5UnCgcvEKNsM+Ifnq836QeJFCtxqMP98KSCj2k+pA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:03:18 -0000 Yes, support. As was (I believe) already pointed out at the IETF99 session, it tries to address a problem that was also presented here: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/slides/slides-98-nmrg-self-driving-networks-00.pdf So this work seems good to be done here. I believe that the authors of both the IETF98 and IETF99 presentations have already agreed they would work together on this issue too. Bert On 22/08/2017 00:04, Kent Watsen wrote: > All, > > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > NETCONF working group document: > > draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] > > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not > support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the > document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like > to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > > > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Tue Aug 22 06:42:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9A0126DD9 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:42:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, 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bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:41:57 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:41:56 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-011.cisco.com ([64.101.220.151]) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com ([64.101.220.151]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 09:41:56 -0400 From: "Tim Jenkins (timjenki)" To: Kent Watsen , "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "ludwig@clemm.org" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmvQpgXRYM8T0idt1h9zSemOqKQY40A Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:41:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 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10.28.16.133 with SMTP id 127mr48023wmq.75.1503416837289; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:47:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:47:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:47:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen , Benoit Claise Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146d95089528b05575982c9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 15:47:21 -0000 --001a1146d95089528b05575982c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Is the NETCONF WG the proper venue to work on UDP? Seems like the transport area would be a more appropriate home. Why is this transport work specific to pub/sub? It seems useful for unconstrained devices on constrained networks to be able to use UDP instead of TCP for all management messages. Andy On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > All, > > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > NETCONF working group document: > > draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] > > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not > support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the > document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like > to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > > > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1146d95089528b05575982c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Is the NETCONF WG the proper venue = to work on UDP?
Seems like the transport area would be a more app= ropriate home.

Why is this transport work specific= to pub/sub?
It seems useful for unconstrained devices on constra= ined networks
to be able to use UDP instead of TCP for all manage= ment messages.


Andy

<= /div>

On Mon= , Aug 21, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
All,

This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a
NETCONF working group document:

=C2=A0 draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1]

Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "n= o/do not
support".=C2=A0 If indicating no, please state your reservations with = the
document.=C2=A0 If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd= like
to see addressed once the document is a WG document.


[1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00


Thank you,
Kent (and Mahesh)




_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--001a1146d95089528b05575982c9-- From nobody Tue Aug 22 10:40:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED681329FE for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:40:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w9RdrEaUK8Lg for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9B031329DC for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DTY34347; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:40:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:40:09 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.62]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:40:01 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Kent Watsen , "evoit@cisco.com" , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "ludwig@clemm.org" , "timjenki@cisco.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmvQpgXRYM8T0idt1h9zSemOqKQpbiA Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:40:00 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F74FC@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.246.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.599C6C7B.008A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 05a51a688d667971d98450151b72ddb9 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:40:23 -0000 No, I'm not aware of IPR that applies to this draft. --- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 3:06 PM To: evoit@cisco.com; andy@yumaworks.com; ludwig@clemm.org; timjenki@cisco.c= om Cc: netconf@ietf.org Subject: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-message= s-01 Authors, As part of preparation for WG Adoption of "draft-voit-netconf-notification-= messages-01", are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R= FCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please answer the ab= ove by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware = of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until= a response has been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE= : THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF= IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR = of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any = contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more inform= ation, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/grou= p/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, Kent (and Mahesh) PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your respons= e. _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 22 10:46:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D53A132A0D for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:46:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EBlVE4Yz210z for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48021132A06 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DND07506; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:46:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:46:16 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.148]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:46:11 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , Benoit Claise CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKQ+6EA//+qXCA= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 17:46:10 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F7515@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.246.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F7515SJCEML701CHMchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.599C6DEA.0001, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ad0e13863e367fc0d2678f4196c78c89 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: 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<0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> References: <0BB5D437-8C0A-4E56-BE19-0FE027D57EB2@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:00:18 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "evoit@cisco.com" , "ludwig@clemm.org" , "timjenki@cisco.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146d95053fc7805575b5eb5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:00:23 -0000 --001a1146d95053fc7805575b5eb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft Andy On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Authors, > > As part of preparation for WG Adoption of "draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01", > are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft? > > Please state either: > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)? > > If yes to the above, please state either: > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" > > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please answer the > above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are > aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next > stage until a response has been received from each author and listed > contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S > TO LINES. > > > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed > as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the > IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware > of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating > in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For > more information, please see the RFCs listed above and > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. > > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) > > PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your > response. > > > > > --001a1146d95053fc7805575b5eb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

No= , I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft
=
Andy


On Mon,= Aug 21, 2017 at 3:06 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Authors,

As part of preparation for WG Adoption of "draft-voit-netconf-not= ification-messages-01", are you aware of any IPR that applies to this = draft?

Please state either:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this d= raft"
=C2=A0 or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft&qu= ot;


If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?

If yes to the above, please state either:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF= IPR rules"
=C2=A0 or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think
appropriate.


If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please answer the above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are
aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next
stage until a response has been received from each author and listed
contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S<= br> TO LINES.


If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware
of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating<= br> in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For
more information, please see the RFCs listed above and
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/= group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty.

Thank you,
Kent (and Mahesh)

PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your respons= e.





--001a1146d95053fc7805575b5eb5-- From nobody Tue Aug 22 11:20:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86180132452 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:20:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h94yFHXXDB3g for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 631F2132935 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:20:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3844; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503426039; x=1504635639; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=nv00JUK6FNAt+f1I40IWkaiPdZEdD/d7P62JCRUw9PI=; b=Z36e8j4T0Hjan7iwbZZRFtz/QncDvgToo3Fds+tB3nGaY76FC4gvTw3R 3JOoenflJeHswNFhM+2MihSgZRY0AiOAlYrc7uzvyO78YSsLVOdY6pA6X u1SXy+4OeNhGJZIauIEh7aCHGMd/iUvpiUCoOK8bzSO9Mn1nzBpTyJo6s s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CmAACOdJxZ/49dJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1pkgRUHjgyQG4Fulh8OggQhC4RMTwKEMT8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FGAEBAQEDAQE4NBcEAgEIDgMEAQEOEQkHJwsUCQgCBAESCBOKFhCvJ4thAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWDKoICgUyBY4MnhEABEgEJhgoFoFUCh1OMZYI?= =?us-ascii?q?ZhWKKbpYoAR84TDMLdxVJhxp2iGOBI4EPAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,413,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="289019024" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Aug 2017 18:20:38 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (xch-rtp-012.cisco.com [64.101.220.152]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7MIKbqK004800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:20:38 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:20:37 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:20:37 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKQoaHg Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:20:37 +0000 Message-ID: <7083a953512342049b095dfdd6e5d592@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:20:41 -0000 I do support this draft becoming a WG item. If adopted, there are number= of topics which need to be resolved in the weeks/months ahead... Section 3 Paragraph 1 & diagram While main board and line cards are identified as examples, there is nothin= g which restricts the functions to reside in these places, or even on the s= ame box. This document should say that a subscription server can support t= his logical function for many devices. Paragraph 2 Not all datastreams will allow for the deducing of notification loss & diso= rder. For UDP, this requires elements of the draft-voit-netconf-notificati= on-messages in many deployments. As you also bring up draft-voit several p= laces in Section 4. Do you believe it viable to adopt this draft without a= dopting the other one? The divisions between these drafts needs to be work= ed through. As Alex is an author for both drafts, we should be in a good p= lace to make the appropriate split.=20 Bullets 2 & 3 This is hard as the subscription server will have to maintain which yang-ob= jects should be pushed by individual line cards. Knowing that all requeste= d elements are being sent by one-and-only-one element of the publisher can = be tricky. In fact, several problems need analysis: - how will the subscriber know that it is receiving all updates across all = cards and mainboard? - "responsible for notifying the subscriber in case of any problems of comp= onent subscriptions" will require augmentations to draft-ietf-netconf-subs= cribed-notifications (which is fine). But such a mechanism for sub-subscri= ption distribution and reporting should not be done in a draft specific to = UDP, and it turns out it is a fairly complex problem. What form this solut= ion needs to take is something worthy of larger WG discussion. - is configuration data telemetry able to be pushed in this distributed man= ner? Or is this just for operational objects. Section 4 Per comment above, there are dependencies with draft-voit-netconf-notificat= ion-messages which need to be worked through. Section 4.2 Authentication and Encryption options Section 4.3 - Listing support for GPB is nice to have, but I am unsure how to cover Goo= gle specific specifications within IETF documents. This is non-trivial to = resolve. - Having CBOR for subscribed data will likely need additional supporting do= cumentation Section 5 The suggested tree augmentations should be made to draft-ietf-netconf-subsc= ribed-notifications, rather than yang-push. UDP is viable for events too. Also the subtree for udp-transport-type might not be necessary. We already= have a transport-protocol object in the base model. And some of the sugge= sted objects could also be made transport-independent. Thanks, Eric > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:04 PM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-0= 0 >=20 > All, >=20 > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a NETCONF > working group document: >=20 > draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] >=20 > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not supp= ort". If > indicating no, please state your reservations with the document. If yes,= please > also feel free to provide comments you'd like to see addressed once the > document is a WG document. >=20 >=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >=20 >=20 > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 22 11:56:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782AF1323C0 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:56:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yF5onF5bdRBN for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02on0137.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.36.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D8AA1323B8 for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 11:56:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=BEESCzKtkLHhmE1Ld0tmd/7k7dvvy14x45SMvCAA1As=; b=Mt5cg8nJ2KPTlIe5KZgaD14yc1WArWtxhkCmmdC8JQ557TDVs7UdEslZsXN0K9KQSPXcn2kvgnXgr+/HSNr/QcvWGdrw35fCUU5U8FLDwUXxLLEWpOiAME4bB5QMCJVyUq1A2Q9EMgt/CatKygnJ+mVDvZS0iisQOgbjd/haVtk= Received: from CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.149.11) by CY1PR0501MB1241.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.225.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.1385.4; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:56:16 +0000 Received: from CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.149.11]) by CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.160.149.11]) with mapi id 15.01.1385.008; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:56:16 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] send 'version' in zerotouch url? 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X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 18:56:20 -0000 DQpbTm90ZTogdGhpcyBpc3N1ZSBpcyBibG9ja2luZyB0aGUgcG9zdGluZyBvZiBhbiB1cGRhdGVk IHplcm90b3VjaCBkcmFmdCwgd2hpY2ggd291bGQgdGhlbiBiZSByZWFkeSBmb3IgYSAocHJlc3Vt YWJseSkgZmluYWwgTGFzdCBDYWxsXQ0KDQpTZWNvbmQgdHJ5ICA7KQ0KDQpUaGUgaXNzdWUgcmVn YXJkcyB3aGVuIGEgZGV2aWNlIGxlYXJucyBvZiBhIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2ZXIncyBhZGRyZXNz L3BvcnQgdmlhIGFuIGluc2VjdXJlIG1lY2hhbmlzbSAoZS5nLiwgREhDUCBvciBhIEROUyByZWNv cmQpLiAgQXMgc3VjaCwgdGhlIGRldmljZSB3aWxsIG5vdCBoYXZlIGEgdHJ1c3QtYW5jaG9yIGNl cnRpZmljYXRlIHRvIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0ZSB0aGUgYm9vdHN0cmFwIHNlcnZlcidzIFRMUyBjZXJ0 aWZpY2F0ZSB3aXRoLiAgRm9yIHN1Y2ggY2FzZXMsIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhbGxvd3MgdGhlIGRldmlj ZSB0byBlc3RhYmxpc2ggdGhlIFRMUyBjb25uZWN0aW9uIHdpdGggdGhlIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2 ZXIgYW55d2F5cyAoZS5nLiwgYnkgYmxpbmRseSBhY2NlcHRpbmcgdGhlIHNlcnZlcidzIGNlcnRp ZmljYXRlKS4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoZSBjb25jZXJuIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2 ZXIgbWF5ICJvd25lZCIgYnkgYW4gYXR0YWNrZXIuLi4NCg0KVG8gc2FmZWd1YXJkIGFnYWluc3Qg dGhpcyBzY2VuYXJpbywgdGhlIGRyYWZ0ICgxKSBzYXlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRldmljZSBNVVNUIHZl cmlmeSAodmlhIGEgc2lnbmF0dXJlKSBhbnkgZGF0YSBpdCBvYnRhaW5zIGZyb20gdGhlIFt1bnRy dXN0ZWRdIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2ZXIgYW5kICgyKSB0YWtlcyBzdGVwcyB0byBsaW1pdCB0aGUg YW1vdW50IG9mIGRhdGEgdGhlIGRldmljZSBzZW5kcyB0byB0aGUgW3VudHJ1c3RlZF0gYm9vdHN0 cmFwIHNlcnZlci4gIA0KDQpDdXJyZW50bHksIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBoYXMgcm9idXN0IHN1cHBvcnQg Zm9yIGdvYWwgIzEgYW5kIHBhcnRpYWwgc3VwcG9ydCBmb3IgZ29hbCAjMi4gIEZvciBnb2FsICMx LCB0aGUgZHJhZnQgZGVmaW5lcyBhIHNpZ25lZC1kYXRhIHNvbHV0aW9uIChvd25lciBjZXJ0aWZp Y2F0ZXMsIG93bmVyc2hpcCB2b3VjaGVycywgZXRjLikuICBGb3IgZ29hbCAjMiwgdGhlIGRyYWZ0 IHByZXZlbnRzIHRoZSBkZXZpY2UgZnJvbSBzZW5kaW5nIGl0cyBJRGV2SUQgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUg b3IgUE9TVC1pbmcgaXRzICd1cGRhdGUtcHJvZ3Jlc3MnIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgd2hlbiBjb25u ZWN0ZWQgdG8gdW50cnVzdGVkIHNlcnZlcnMsIGV2ZW4gdGhvdWdoIGl0IGluY29uc2lzdGVudGx5 IHJlcXVpcmVzIHRoZSBkZXZpY2Ugc2VuZCBpdHMgInVuaXF1ZS1pZCIgYW5kIG5vdywgbWF5YmUs IHBlciB0aGUgc3ViamVjdCBsaW5lLCBpdHMgInZlcnNpb24iLiAgVGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzLCBk byB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGFkaGVyZSB0byBnb2FsICMyIG9yIG5vdC4NCg0KV2hhdCBkb2VzIGFkaGVy aW5nIHRvIGdvYWwgIzIgbG9vayBsaWtlPyAgLSB3ZSBuZWVkIHRvIHN0YXRlIHRoYXQgdGhlICJ1 bmlxdWUtaWQiIGFuZCAidmVyc2lvbiIgKGlmIHdlIGdvIGZvciBpdCkgdmFsdWVzIGluIHRoZSBV UkwgYXJlIG11bmdlZCB2aWEgYSBzYWx0ZWQgaGFzaGluZyBhbGdvcml0aG0gKHNhbHQgdG8gcHJl dmVudCBkaWN0aW9uYXJ5IGF0dGFja3MpLiAgQWdhaW4sIHRoZSAqY3VycmVudCogZGVmaW5pdGlv biBvZiAidW5pcXVlLWlkIiBoYXMgZW5vdWdoIHdpZ2dsZS1yb29tIHRvIGVuYWJsZSB2ZW5kb3Jz IHRvIGhhc2ggdGhlc2UgdmFsdWVzIGlmIHRoZXkgd2FudCwgYnV0IGRvIHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gbWFr ZSBpdCBtYW5kYXRvcnkgdG8gYmUgY29uc2lzdGVudD8NCg0KV2hhdCBkb2VzIE5PVCBhZGhlcmlu ZyB0byBnb2FsICMyIGxvb2sgaXQ/IC0gSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHdlIHNheSB0aGF0IGRldmljZXMg TVVTVCBhbHdheXMgc2VuZCB0aGVpciBJRGV2SUQgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgLSB0aGlzIGRvZXNuJ3Qg aHVydCAoc2luY2UgdGhlIElEZXZJRCBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBkb2Vzbid0IGNvbnRhaW4gbXVjaCBi ZXlvbmQgc2VyaWFsIG51bWJlcikgd2hpbGUgYWN0dWFsbHkgaGVscGluZyB0byBwcmV2ZW50IE1p VE0gYXR0YWNrcyAoc2luY2UgYSBzcG9vZmVkIGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2ZXIgd291bGRuJ3Qga25v dyB0aGUgZGV2aWNlJ3MgSURldklEIHByaXZhdGUga2V5KS4gIEJ1dCBJJ20gY29uZmxpY3RlZCBp ZiBkZXZpY2VzIHNob3VsZCBzZW5kIHRoZWlyIHByb2dyZXNzIHVwZGF0ZXMgdG8gdW50cnVzdGVk IGJvb3RzdHJhcCBzZXJ2ZXJzLCBzaW5jZSB0aGUgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgdXBkYXRlcyBjb250YWluIGRh dGEgYWJvdmUgYW5kIGJleW9uZCB3aGF0IGRldmljZXMgd291bGQgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIHByb3ZpZGUu ICBUbyBhZGRyZXNzIHRoaXMsIHdlIG1pZ2h0IHN0YXRlIHRoYXQgaXQncyBva2F5IGZvciBkZXZp Y2VzIHRvIHNlbmQgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgdXBkYXRlcyB0byB1bnRydXN0ZWQgc2VydmVycyBpZiBhbmQg b25seSBpZiB0aGV5IGFyZSBmaXJzdCBhYmxlIHRvIHZlcmlmeSB0aGUgc2lnbmF0dXJlIG92ZXIg dGhlIHNpZ25lZCBkYXRhLCBzaW5jZSB0aGF0IHNvbWV3aGF0IGRlbW9uc3RyYXRlcyB0aGUgYm9v dHN0cmFwIHNlcnZlcidzIGF1dGhlbnRpY2l0eS4NCg0KVGhvdWdodHM/DQoNCktlbnQgLy8gY29u dHJpYnV0b3INCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Aug 22 18:32:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA25E132A77 for ; 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Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:32:04 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:31:52 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Kent Watsen , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" , Alexander Clemm CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGsme7yVk36M2W06qG1Xz6niIoqKRKXsg Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:31:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.599CDB16.0045, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ae3aeefad677d6dcce69a62f10692097 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:32:12 -0000 Tm8sIEknbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpS ZWdhcmRzLA0KVGlhbnJhbg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206 IEtlbnQgV2F0c2VuIFttYWlsdG86a3dhdHNlbkBqdW5pcGVyLm5ldF0NCj4gU2VudDogVHVlc2Rh eSwgQXVndXN0IDIyLCAyMDE3IDY6MDYgQU0NCj4gVG86IFpoZW5nZ3Vhbmd5aW5nIChXYWxrZXIp OyBUaWFucmFuIFpob3U7IEFsZXhhbmRlciBDbGVtbQ0KPiBDYzogbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0K PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgSVBSIG9uIGRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW5ldGNvbmYtdWRwLXB1Yi1j aGFubmVsLTAwDQo+IA0KPiBBdXRob3JzLA0KPiANCj4gQXMgcGFydCBvZiBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBm b3IgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24gb2YNCj4gImRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW5ldGNvbmYtdWRwLXB1Yi1jaGFubmVs LTAwIiwgYXJlIHlvdSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQNCj4gYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRy YWZ0Pw0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIHN0YXRlIGVpdGhlcjoNCj4gICAgICJObywgSSdtIG5vdCBhd2Fy ZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Ig0KPiAgIG9yDQo+ICAgICAi WWVzLCBJJ20gYXdhcmUgb2YgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Ig0KPiANCj4g DQo+IElmIHNvLCBoYXMgdGhpcyBJUFIgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSB3aXRo IElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIChzZWUNCj4gUkZDcyAzOTc5LCA0ODc5LCAzNjY5IGFuZCA1Mzc4IGZv ciBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHMpPw0KPiANCj4gSWYgeWVzIHRvIHRoZSBhYm92ZSwgcGxlYXNlIHN0YXRl IGVpdGhlcjoNCj4gICAgICJZZXMsIHRoZSBJUFIgaGFzIGJlZW4gZGlzY2xvc2VkIGluIGNvbXBs aWFuY2Ugd2l0aCBJRVRGIElQUiBydWxlcyINCj4gICBvcg0KPiAgICAgIk5vLCB0aGUgSVBSIGhh cyBub3QgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9zZWQiDQo+IA0KPiBJZiB5b3UgYW5zd2VyIG5vLCBwbGVhc2UgcHJv dmlkZSBhbnkgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBkZXRhaWxzIHlvdSB0aGluaw0KPiBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZS4NCj4g DQo+IA0KPiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIGxpc3RlZCBhcyBhIGRvY3VtZW50IGF1dGhvciBvciBjb250cmli dXRvciwgcGxlYXNlIGFuc3dlciB0aGUNCj4gYWJvdmUgYnkgcmVzcG9uZGluZyB0byB0aGlzIGVt YWlsIHJlZ2FyZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciBvciBub3QgeW91IGFyZSBhd2FyZQ0KPiBvZiBhbnkg cmVsZXZhbnQgSVBSLiBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwgbm90IGFkdmFuY2UgdG8gdGhlIG5leHQg c3RhZ2UgdW50aWwNCj4gYSByZXNwb25zZSBoYXMgYmVlbiByZWNlaXZlZCBmcm9tIGVhY2ggYXV0 aG9yIGFuZCBsaXN0ZWQgY29udHJpYnV0b3IuIE5PVEU6DQo+IFRISVMgQVBQTElFUyBUTyBBTEwg T0YgWU9VIExJU1RFRCBJTiBUSElTIE1FU1NBR0UnUyBUTyBMSU5FUy4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBJZiB5 b3UgYXJlIG9uIHRoZSBXRyBlbWFpbCBsaXN0IG9yIGF0dGVuZCBXRyBtZWV0aW5ncyBidXQgYXJl IG5vdCBsaXN0ZWQNCj4gYXMgYW4gYXV0aG9yIG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLCB3ZSByZW1pbmQgeW91 IG9mIHlvdXIgb2JsaWdhdGlvbnMgdW5kZXIgdGhlDQo+IElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIHdoaWNoIGVu Y291cmFnZXMgeW91IHRvIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgSUVURiBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlDQo+IG9mIElQ UiBvZiBvdGhlcnMgb24gYW4gSUVURiBjb250cmlidXRpb24sIG9yIHRvIHJlZnJhaW4gZnJvbSBw YXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nDQo+IGluIGFueSBjb250cmlidXRpb24gb3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiByZWxhdGVk IHRvIHlvdXIgdW5kaXNjbG9zZWQgSVBSLiBGb3IgbW9yZQ0KPiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNl IHNlZSB0aGUgUkZDcyBsaXN0ZWQgYWJvdmUgYW5kDQo+IGh0dHA6Ly90cmFjLnRvb2xzLmlldGYu b3JnL2dyb3VwL2llc2cvdHJhYy93aWtpL0ludGVsbGVjdHVhbFByb3BlcnR5Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhh bmsgeW91LA0KPiBLZW50IChhbmQgTWFoZXNoKQ0KPiANCj4gUFMgUGxlYXNlIGluY2x1ZGUgYWxs IGxpc3RlZCBpbiB0aGUgaGVhZGVycyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4geW91ciByZXNwb25zZS4N Cj4gDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Aug 22 18:38:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A5C132804 for ; 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Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:38:11 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.219]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:38:00 +0800 From: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" To: Kent Watsen , Tianran Zhou , Alexander Clemm CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGsme7yVk36M2W06qG1Xz6niIoqKRKwiQ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: <381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E140C91AD772@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.169.155] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090204.599CDC84.001D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.219, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ae3aeefad677d6dcce69a62f10692097 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:38:15 -0000 Tm8sIEknbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpS ZWdhcmRzLA0KV2Fsa2VyKHpoZW5nZ3Vhbmd5aW5nKQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2Ut LS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogS2VudCBXYXRzZW4gW21haWx0bzprd2F0c2VuQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0XSANClNl bnQ6IDIwMTflubQ45pyIMjLml6UgNjowNg0KVG86IFpoZW5nZ3Vhbmd5aW5nIChXYWxrZXIpOyBU aWFucmFuIFpob3U7IEFsZXhhbmRlciBDbGVtbQ0KQ2M6IG5ldGNvbmZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFJlZ2FyZGluZyBJUFIgb24gZHJhZnQtemhlbmctbmV0Y29uZi11ZHAtcHViLWNoYW5uZWwt MDANCg0KQXV0aG9ycywNCg0KQXMgcGFydCBvZiBwcmVwYXJhdGlvbiBmb3IgV0cgQWRvcHRpb24g b2YgImRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW5ldGNvbmYtdWRwLXB1Yi1jaGFubmVsLTAwIiwgYXJlIHlvdSBhd2Fy ZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Pw0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugc3RhdGUg ZWl0aGVyOg0KICAgICJObywgSSdtIG5vdCBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgSVBSIHRoYXQgYXBwbGllcyB0 byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Ig0KICBvcg0KICAgICJZZXMsIEknbSBhd2FyZSBvZiBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBs aWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQiDQoNCg0KSWYgc28sIGhhcyB0aGlzIElQUiBiZWVuIGRpc2Nsb3Nl ZCBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIHdpdGggSUVURiBJUFIgcnVsZXMgKHNlZSBSRkNzIDM5NzksIDQ4Nzks IDM2NjkgYW5kIDUzNzggZm9yIG1vcmUgZGV0YWlscyk/DQoNCklmIHllcyB0byB0aGUgYWJvdmUs IHBsZWFzZSBzdGF0ZSBlaXRoZXI6DQogICAgIlllcywgdGhlIElQUiBoYXMgYmVlbiBkaXNjbG9z ZWQgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSB3aXRoIElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIg0KICBvcg0KICAgICJObywgdGhl IElQUiBoYXMgbm90IGJlZW4gZGlzY2xvc2VkIg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgYW5zd2VyIG5vLCBwbGVhc2Ug cHJvdmlkZSBhbnkgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBkZXRhaWxzIHlvdSB0aGluayBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZS4NCg0K DQpJZiB5b3UgYXJlIGxpc3RlZCBhcyBhIGRvY3VtZW50IGF1dGhvciBvciBjb250cmlidXRvciwg cGxlYXNlIGFuc3dlciB0aGUgYWJvdmUgYnkgcmVzcG9uZGluZyB0byB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIHJlZ2Fy ZGxlc3Mgb2Ygd2hldGhlciBvciBub3QgeW91IGFyZSBhd2FyZSBvZiBhbnkgcmVsZXZhbnQgSVBS LiBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwgbm90IGFkdmFuY2UgdG8gdGhlIG5leHQgc3RhZ2UgdW50aWwg YSByZXNwb25zZSBoYXMgYmVlbiByZWNlaXZlZCBmcm9tIGVhY2ggYXV0aG9yIGFuZCBsaXN0ZWQg Y29udHJpYnV0b3IuIE5PVEU6IFRISVMgQVBQTElFUyBUTyBBTEwgT0YgWU9VIExJU1RFRCBJTiBU SElTIE1FU1NBR0UnUyBUTyBMSU5FUy4NCg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG9uIHRoZSBXRyBlbWFpbCBs aXN0IG9yIGF0dGVuZCBXRyBtZWV0aW5ncyBidXQgYXJlIG5vdCBsaXN0ZWQgYXMgYW4gYXV0aG9y IG9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLCB3ZSByZW1pbmQgeW91IG9mIHlvdXIgb2JsaWdhdGlvbnMgdW5kZXIg dGhlIElFVEYgSVBSIHJ1bGVzIHdoaWNoIGVuY291cmFnZXMgeW91IHRvIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgSUVU RiBpZiB5b3UgYXJlIGF3YXJlIG9mIElQUiBvZiBvdGhlcnMgb24gYW4gSUVURiBjb250cmlidXRp b24sIG9yIHRvIHJlZnJhaW4gZnJvbSBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nIGluIGFueSBjb250cmlidXRpb24g b3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiByZWxhdGVkIHRvIHlvdXIgdW5kaXNjbG9zZWQgSVBSLiBGb3IgbW9yZSBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNlIHNlZSB0aGUgUkZDcyBsaXN0ZWQgYWJvdmUgYW5kIGh0dHA6Ly90 cmFjLnRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2dyb3VwL2llc2cvdHJhYy93aWtpL0ludGVsbGVjdHVhbFByb3Bl cnR5Lg0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3UsDQpLZW50IChhbmQgTWFoZXNoKQ0KDQpQUyBQbGVhc2UgaW5jbHVk ZSBhbGwgbGlzdGVkIGluIHRoZSBoZWFkZXJzIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpbiB5b3VyIHJlc3Bv bnNlLg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Tue Aug 22 19:22:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11D31327EC for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 19:22:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kl8dSEm40m-r for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 19:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 852641323BF for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 19:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DTY80887; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:22:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 03:22:18 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:22:08 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmq2KiStu0LpUC+dtqUvYwssaKRLG+A Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:22:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090201.599CE6DB.013A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: f065eabb243cc58f777f6c85e9cd779b Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 02:22:24 -0000 Hi, I support this document to be adopted by the WG. The other call for adoption document draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00= will refer this work for the message header design. So I would like to review and contribute if it is adopted by the WG. Here are some initial comments: 1. I do not understand why the document separate the two formats for single= record and bundled records. In principle, the bundled message can represen= t=20 the general cases. Maybe you are considering some optimization. But I did n= ot see it. 2. You include the "dscp" in the message header. How can this be used in up= per transport layer? It's an IP layer parameter. 3. You have a "record-count? uint16" in the bundled record message. Why thi= s is useful? When decoding the records, the count is discovered automatical= ly. And it won't help for decoding the records. Alternatively I think a "me= ssage length" would help. The decoder can know how much data to feed. 4. You have "message-generator-id" and "observation-domain-id". I think bot= h of them are used to indicate the source of the data. Then why we need two= ? 5. In what scope is the subscription-id unique, per device, per receiver, o= r globally? It's better to indicate. Cheers, Tianran > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:06 AM > To: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 >=20 >=20 > All, >=20 > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a NETCONF > working group document: >=20 > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 [1] >=20 > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not supp= ort". > If indicating no, please state your reservations with the document. If y= es, > please also feel free to provide comments you'd like to see addressed onc= e > the document is a WG document. >=20 >=20 > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 >=20 >=20 > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 23 01:29:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2931B132BD6 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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14.03.0235.001; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 16:28:48 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Giles Heron , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKPmyOggAAO7QCAAdbTIA== Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:28:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.599D3CCA.0050, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 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2017 09:48:26.7214 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB3000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:48:33 -0000 ---- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Bierman" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 6:32 PM > Hi, > > max-sessions is for constraining resources, not a security parameter. > It can be removed if it is not common. I see max-sessions used widely in Enterprise server software, not just for Operations, since the software is licensed for the maximum number of users it will support concurrently. When that limit gets close, in everyday use, then some users cannot access the server at peak times. Users then logon first thing and stay logged on all day. Then an idle timeout is introduced to counter this practice. So I would say that if you have max-sessions, you must have an idle timeout. Of course, users then get in the habit of hitting the 'Enter' key every 15/30/60 minutes to keep their sessions alive, coming back early from coffee or lunch when necessary (well, I do); as yet, I have not seen the counter to that. Tom Petch > Andy > > > On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > Hi Juergen, > > > > Now we're down to just this last open discussion point. > > > > >> > - security considerations > > >> > > > >> > There is a warning that max-sessions != 0 may be exploited for a > > >> > denial of service. So how useful is max-sessions to have in the > > >> > first place? > > >> > > >> It's important to production servers to constrain resources. > > >> That said, we could debate if it needs to be a configurable > > >> value. Another fix to the security-consideration text is > > >> either remove '0' as an option or re-define '0' to mean > > >> "use system preference". Thoughts? > > > > > > The question is whether a simple minded max-session really helps since > > > it opens the floor to new attacks (and I note that it defaults to no > > > limit anyway). Anyway, I assume 'session' here means an established > > > NETCONF session, so the client must have successfully authenticated. > > > Perhaps my interpretation of what 'session' means is wrong and you > > > mean the max number of established TCP connections? But then the > > > denial of service potential is even worse. > > > > I think that this field came from what YumaPro supports, hopefully > > Andy chimes in. Just the same, the intent is for authenticated > > sessions (standard TLS timeout and hello timeout should shed idle > > TCP and TLS sessions respectively). > > > > To be clearer here, we're discussing a very benign form of DoS; as > > you say, the clients are authenticated. The issue would manifest > > itself when clients are somehow malfunctioning, not closing sessions > > as expediently as they should. > > > > > > > > K. 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kmDmvTHnT_Bv; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:08:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986AB200E0; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:08:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3A652404983C; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:08:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:08:43 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "t.petch" , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170823130843.ocghqqi235qapp5b@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "t.petch" , Andy Bierman , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170804160848.GA37373@elstar.local> <70D86CB8-39D7-4290-B4A8-396DB0D77947@juniper.net> <20170815063010.g3gng6dfs3nbmi7r@elstar.local> <2913A1E9-5413-4A9B-BBA6-919AF72BD3E8@juniper.net> <044a01d31bf4$d2ea0a80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] review of draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:08:48 -0000 On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:33:50PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Just adding to how common max-sessions may be, note that > sshd_config has the "MaxSessions" field... You have to pick examples carefully: MaxSessions Specifies the maximum number of open shell, login or subsystem (e.g. sftp) sessions permitted per network connection. Note the 'per network connection' - so this is not the max-session we were dealing with I think. There is also this: MaxStartups Specifies the maximum number of concurrent unauthenticated con- nections to the SSH daemon. Again, something slightly different and they can do random early drop instead of 'you are locked out once it is full'. Anyway, I did not see a limit for all established SSH sessions for all connections (and this might be difficult given their software architecture - perhaps they would have it otherwise). So a point for each of us. > FWIW, I know that JUNOS limits the number of sessions, but > doesn't have a config knob to set it. This does not make a strong argument that this is a commonly requested feature to configure. ;-) Point goes to me. /js PS: I do not really care much, but I do have fun with this. -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Aug 23 06:56:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D03C132C1E for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ruTPTw7Jiv8W for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57C7132C20 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id z132so1545567wmg.1 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5e+O1Ky+5dhpQbDuEfrR8RSVsFOMuBQFkJyewSgimw8=; b=k6ps37QhhTuSTwzeag3p4VQ0OLKRAXxOLVSknlKimTfspTcZEvyx+xk6pNGmdgppG4 s69sJkpUltNHDvYLKmJDq//jj85L/e6D3yNJ0uPUKMXV6t6FLrdUkkbbFruMvkxbNY05 It5NFCsiRWsgfUhbL+PwnpSTII5O0YjdlJlvw+BUXqZCfM/Khk5zK4Hvs325tjfNMy3W kh0p534v70ALjKEhaR17JNwjFGc2eovyzPOlaAChNVYlD/Tgv6q7C2I60JDU1rJWp+Mt ZFYsXW8iaONUHVP02NU7AW1/ZnrG1kZQUex4w8nt8eBl7shRHgRJ8JYs69qlZvpfRl34 r/cA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5e+O1Ky+5dhpQbDuEfrR8RSVsFOMuBQFkJyewSgimw8=; b=WE5qo4UkJL84H/I51xKh3I4ohXOaGFY4PJZGCFKR7zvNUWj/Lbf4Ksm1mNULo3xacX sPPaT/28peOZmt8uGDyGtE+YXHQkti4y6yCdNvBWj/jK3lRfp56XVgm3JkCxLuMyEaXY tqjROYFfwcWlJZnyfCO3uAHnn+N/I+fs8onsuMRmv1jO+Zz7d+qLVU4h6jImy9LqrY0Y gPveJytjjARSS4RdFtkhsbLSWHVaan/96Q5FS2U5KoA36NnfRBqdW8RDjUCJh4xb022t vMu/Fi9vmf/fZezX0MJeKHlLi5WJyUHzSJQ/ePbptgOCG7NjjfNzbyWERSQtLdFXMZMO vo6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gPO5XqFepbMgHKKwN2nLc4tXBptJ8of2+c5exbCkkiNQpLW3nO yL3fAO9DCXAr2g== X-Received: by 10.28.49.136 with SMTP id x130mr1883344wmx.57.1503496585020; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-giheron-nitro3.cisco.com ([173.38.220.36]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i127sm1404848wmf.3.2017.08.23.06.56.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Giles Heron In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:56:50 +0100 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> To: Tianran Zhou X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:56:29 -0000 Hi Tianran, sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts (one = for the problem statement and one for the solution)? That way you can = progress those separately. Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define your own = transport in a NETCONF draft. Adding reliability to UDP is a solved = problem (many times over) so you should be able to pick one of the = existing solutions. Giles > On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou wrote: >=20 > Hi Giles, >=20 > Thank you very much for your review and comments. > This version we were going to state the problem, raise possible issues = that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some TBDs = in the detailed solution part.=20 > We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on the = solution together with the community contributions. > Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the new = revision internally. > In line, please see my reply. >=20 > Thanks, > Tianran >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles = Heron >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM >> To: netconf@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll >> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>=20 >> There seem to be a few issues with this draft: >>=20 >> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests = generating >> it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. Perhaps an = EUI-64 makes >> more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP packets tend to = have >> source IP addresses?=20 >=20 > [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of the data. = Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So in the = new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the device = level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number. >=20 >> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT? =20 > [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think about. We = assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are in = the same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will be = used when collecting data? >=20 >> Or of correlating >> notifications from different line-cards on the same system that may = have >> different source IP addresses? > [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the same = source IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, = I think the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP = to device. >=20 >=20 >> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and = says those >> are as per RFC3339. =46rom my reading of RFC3339 it encodes = dates/times as >> strings. > [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the = encoding will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the = timestamp on message generation is not so important to be accurate. So = we tend to modify to:=20 > "The Notification-Time, is the time at which the message leaves = the > exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 January > 1970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer." >=20 >> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems like a = strange >> choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable delivery? Or = re-use >> existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see issues with = TCP? (in >> which case explain how reliability based on UDP is better than TCP). > [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechanism for = UDP. We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from = the transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the = packet loss/ reordering or so.=20 > In addition, I think the reliability may also have different levels. = The application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to = record the packet loss but not need retransmission, or need = retransmission but no ordering requirement from transport,... Simply = using TCP seems not a good option. >=20 >> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting encodings, = adding >> authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work you = can reuse >> there rather than defining your own. > [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming update = will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription model = may move to a separate document. And we are not going to create = authentication algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to truncate = to fit in the header field. We will reuse existing work as much as = possible. >=20 >> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say = anything we didn=E2=80=99t >> know already... >>=20 >> Giles >>=20 >>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin wrote: >>>=20 >>> Yes/Support. >>>=20 >>> Best Regards, >>> Zhenbin(Robin) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen >>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6=97=A5= 6:04 >>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org >>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>>=20 >>> All, >>>=20 >>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a = NETCONF >> working group document: >>>=20 >>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] >>>=20 >>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not >> support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the >> document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd = like to >> see addressed once the document is a WG document. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> [1] >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you, >>> Kent (and Mahesh) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Netconf mailing list >>> Netconf@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Netconf mailing list >> Netconf@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 23 07:11:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA1F6132C2F for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:10:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nT9JKk1dma8O for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72DD1132C2C for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:10:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4628; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503497457; x=1504707057; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=qw/h0MN2enWr8pM0DD3kf48QX1CaHlY7THH1Jrp270g=; b=Uo4h9uonX8y+p2c5wZcRkGHc+yu9L52dO+a37RhfGLcbnKWZXsAiPQ60 gGspc6+xkKEg+Q7rJFAONSTgviIXB8T2J6r+fjC3L+4Z5oSKWU3JxHOtu Li1Xpqza9N6yHp82rCOxDPIuorPNmus23MQ4rG3VVTwjfs3tJ+gpIKU/5 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CfAACajJ1Z/5tdJa1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1pkgRUHjg2QG4FwliQOggQhC4RMTwKERD8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FGAEBAQECAQEBGx00CQIFBwQCAQgRBAEBDhEJBycLFAkIAgQBDQUIiiEIELEhi?= =?us-ascii?q?2sBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMqggKBTIUKhDkHARIBhhMFoFgCh1S?= =?us-ascii?q?MZYIbhWOKb4lvjD4BHzh/C3cVSYUXHIFndohPgSOBDwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,417,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="475136763" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Aug 2017 14:10:41 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (xch-rtp-015.cisco.com [64.101.220.155]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7NEAe5d016684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:10:40 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:10:39 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:10:39 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Tianran Zhou , Kent Watsen , "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Thread-Topic: WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmq2KiStu0LpUC+dtqUvYwssaKRLG+AgAC4NEA= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:10:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:10:59 -0000 Thanks Tianran, some thoughts in-line... > From: Tianran Zhou, August 22, 2017 10:22 PM >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I support this document to be adopted by the WG. > The other call for adoption document draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-= 00 > will refer this work for the message header design. > So I would like to review and contribute if it is adopted by the WG. >=20 > Here are some initial comments: > 1. I do not understand why the document separate the two formats for sing= le > record and bundled records. In principle, the bundled message can represe= nt > the general cases. Maybe you are considering some optimization. But I did= not > see it. There are a few known reasons: (1) Optimization: one less level of encapsulation for records. (2) Provides a minimal change from existing YANG notifications: no need to = add hierarchical parsing. (3) Notification-time is mandatory with the bundling format, but optional f= or single records. I suspect we will find additional reasons as we examine specific transports > 2. You include the "dscp" in the message header. How can this be used in = upper > transport layer? It's an IP layer parameter. If the same application does not control both the notification generation p= rocess and the IP bundling process, then there needs to be some communicati= on between them to allow the DSCP to be set appropriately. =20 > 3. You have a "record-count? uint16" in the bundled record message. Why t= his > is useful? When decoding the records, the count is discovered automatical= ly. > And it won't help for decoding the records. Alternatively I think a "mess= age > length" would help. The decoder can know how much data to feed. This is one of the discussions we want to have about the draft. It is true= that record count can be calculated, but: (a) it conceivable that a receiver might start processing records before re= ceipt of the whole bundle. Perhaps the count might matter in allocating re= sources? (b) there are historical protocols which include record count as a field (c) extra layer of error checking? As you can see, the value might not be enough here to retain this optional = header object in the draft. But having it in for now keeps the discussion = open. Sadly we can't use message-length in this case as that will depend on the = selected encoding. =20 > 4. You have "message-generator-id" and "observation-domain-id". I think b= oth > of them are used to indicate the source of the data. Then why we need two= ? The creator of the record and the creator of the bundled notification might= not been the same. For example, a record might be created on a line car= d, but the notification itself might come from the main CPU. =20 One objective of the discussions will be to see if we can/should reuse the = definition of observation domains from IPFIX. IPFIX itself has the conce= pt of "Exporter" and there can be many observation domains per exporter, an= d many exporters per device. In the next version of the draft, I will rena= me message-generator-id to exporter-id to make this discussion clearer. > 5. In what scope is the subscription-id unique, per device, per receiver,= or > globally? It's better to indicate. Per publisher. I will update the text to make this clear. Eric > Cheers, > Tianran >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent > > Watsen > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:06 AM > > To: netconf@ietf.org > > Subject: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 > > > > > > All, > > > > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > > NETCONF working group document: > > > > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 [1] > > > > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not su= pport". > > If indicating no, please state your reservations with the document. > > If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like to see > > addressed once the document is a WG document. > > > > > > [1] > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 > > > > > > Thank you, > > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 23 07:39:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB957132C3C for ; 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cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Aug 2017 04:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Giles Heron In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:35:06 +0100 Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> To: Tianran Zhou X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:34:42 -0000 Hi Tianran, even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled = data (note you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or = NETCONF/RESTCONF) I suspect you can still build upon work others have = done on reliable UDP mechanisms etc. Even RTP does most of what you = want (as it has sequence numbers, timestamps, sender IDs, support for = different payload encodings etc.) - through granted it is targeted at a = very different application space. and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it = might be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether = reliability and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as = currently defined) and so on... Giles > On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou wrote: >=20 > Hi Giles, >=20 > I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. = Please see: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/ >=20 > I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also = separate the subscription model from this document. As things = progressed, now maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as = a support documents. >=20 > We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt = UDP for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG = Push work. > The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the = configuration/subscription. > So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension. > And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work = is important and can be done in NETCONF. >=20 > Thanks, > Tianran >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM >> To: Tianran Zhou >> Cc: netconf@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll >> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>=20 >> Hi Tianran, >>=20 >> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts = (one for the >> problem statement and one for the solution)? That way you can = progress those >> separately. >>=20 >> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define your = own >> transport in a NETCONF draft. Adding reliability to UDP is a solved = problem >> (many times over) so you should be able to pick one of the existing = solutions. >>=20 >> Giles >>=20 >>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Giles, >>>=20 >>> Thank you very much for your review and comments. >>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possible = issues >> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some = TBDs >> in the detailed solution part. >>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on = the >> solution together with the community contributions. >>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the = new >> revision internally. >>> In line, please see my reply. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Tianran >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles >>>> Heron >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM >>>> To: netconf@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll >>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>>>=20 >>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft: >>>>=20 >>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests = generating >>>> it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. Perhaps = an EUI-64 makes >>>> more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP packets tend = to >>>> have source IP addresses? >>>=20 >>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of the = data. >> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So in = the >> new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the = device >> level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number. >>>=20 >>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT? >>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think about. = We >> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are in = the >> same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will be = used >> when collecting data? >>>=20 >>>> Or of correlating >>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system that may >>>> have different source IP addresses? >>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the same = source >> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I = think >> the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP to = device. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and >>>> says those are as per RFC3339. =46rom my reading of RFC3339 it = encodes >>>> dates/times as strings. >>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the = encoding >> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp on = message >> generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend to modify = to: >>> "The Notification-Time, is the time at which the message leaves = the >>> exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 January >>> 1970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer." >>>=20 >>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems like = a >>>> strange choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable = delivery? >>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see >>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on = UDP >> is better than TCP). >>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechanism for = UDP. >> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from the >> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the packet = loss/ >> reordering or so. >>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different levels. = The >> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to record = the >> packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmission but = no >> ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP seems not a = good >> option. >>>=20 >>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting encodings, = adding >>>> authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work you = can >> reuse >>>> there rather than defining your own. >>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming = update >> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription = model may >> move to a separate document. And we are not going to create = authentication >> algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to truncate to fit in = the >> header field. We will reuse existing work as much as possible. >>>=20 >>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say = anything we >>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already... >>>>=20 >>>> Giles >>>>=20 >>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes/Support. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Zhenbin(Robin) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6=97= =A5 6:04 >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>>>>=20 >>>>> All, >>>>>=20 >>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a >>>>> NETCONF >>>> working group document: >>>>>=20 >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do = not >>>> support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with = the >>>> document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd >>>> like to see addressed once the document is a WG document. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [1] >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Kent (and Mahesh) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Netconf mailing list >>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >=20 From nobody Thu Aug 24 05:26:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040FA13295F for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:26:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a-mnvbJikhRr for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D42132949 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B29DA1AE046A; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:26:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:24:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170824.142441.805099729739418168.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kwatsen@juniper.net Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:26:14 -0000 Hi, I support the problem statement in this draft, but I have concerns with the proposed solution. Currently, the notification message is defined in RFC 5277, for both NETCONF and RESTCONF. It has a non-exensible header, and I agree that it would be good to fix that. We have a set of notfication-related documents that are supposed to replace RFC 5277, to make it more flexible. I think that one of the documents in this set (not sure which one) needs to properly define a new notification message, and introduce an extensibility mechanism for the header. Then a followup document (like draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages) can use this extensibility mechanism to define more common header fields. On another level, I'm also worried that this becomes a kitchen-sink of various headers that may or may not useful. I would prefer an initially small set of well thought-through headers, and work from there. I would like to see these concerns addressed before the WG adopts this document. /martin Kent Watsen wrote: > > All, > > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > NETCONF working group document: > > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 [1] > > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not > support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the > document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like > to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 > > > Thank you, > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > From nobody Thu Aug 24 05:42:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF16513293A for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:42:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NQBqcaieKa6A for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14D5C132937 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:42:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5290; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503578546; x=1504788146; h=subject:references:to:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=+MwH+7Bs1fl3PwXbeVFH+wXv78kAhQtUStV0AtRRKSA=; b=Sj3VARS06RjXSeFsqymHu5lrrHa/Xpzfyedbh3Uqen42aXLEIrDA2VXn rBEsL8KGSIknTXuJ4BwKpUN3oPLgSXX/FUTzlCFLTmWWp8BQbuTVKbbjU mRLq1S+T05TBY+VI6vDkQsJl05W4JGHaZ728ADfcMgbkIpkzlrHjAK3JN 0=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,421,1498521600"; d="scan'208,217";a="655185284" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Aug 2017 12:42:24 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.84] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-84.cisco.com [10.63.23.84]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7OCgN33018126; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:24 GMT References: <4d9e8555-dfb8-9c62-b51c-1b4b9a514618@cisco.com> To: netconf@ietf.org Cc: Martin Bjorklund From: David Ball X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <4d9e8555-dfb8-9c62-b51c-1b4b9a514618@cisco.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:42:23 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4d9e8555-dfb8-9c62-b51c-1b4b9a514618@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B95EC97C4CFC09D8B924108B" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Fwd: NACM question X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:42:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B95EC97C4CFC09D8B924108B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posed this question to Martin offline, but he asked me to post it to netconf as it may feed into work on RFC6536bis. Note I am not subscribed to the list. David -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: NACM question Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:41:03 +0100 From: David Ball To: Martin Bjorklund Hi Martin, I have a NACM question (this has come up on the IETF L3SM list). We want to use nacm:default-deny-write to prevent writes to a container and all of its contents - is it sufficient to just specify nacm:default-deny-write on the container, or does it also need to be specified on every node under the container as well? My reading of RFC 6536 is the latter, i.e. every node in the container needs to be annotated. This is based on reading section 3.2.3, that describes how no access control is applied if the effective operation is 'none', and section 3.4.5, where step 10 only mentions whether the data definition statement contains 'default-deny-write', not whether the data definition statement for any ancestor in the tree contains it. From this, I infer that if only the container was annotated, and if the container already existed in the data tree, a client would still be able to write to the other nodes under the container. However, RFC7317 contains an example where "container authentication" is annotated with nacm:default-deny-write, but none of the nodes under it are annotated. This suggests that at least the intent of RFC6536 was that the annotation does apply to all the nodes within the container. [Addendum: Martin points out there is also a similar example of "default-deny-all" in RFC6536 itself] As one of the authors of both RFCs, can you help clarify? Thanks, David -- David Ball --------------B95EC97C4CFC09D8B924108B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I posed this question to Martin offline, but he asked me to post it to netconf as it may feed into work on RFC6536bis.

Note I am not subscribed to the list.


    David

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: NACM question
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:41:03 +0100
From: David Ball <daviball@cisco.com>
To: Martin Bjorklund <mbjorklu@cisco.com> 


Hi Martin,

I have a NACM question (this has come up on the IETF L3SM list). We want 
to use nacm:default-deny-write to prevent writes to a container and all 
of its contents - is it sufficient to just specify 
nacm:default-deny-write on the container, or does it also need to be 
specified on every node under the container as well?

My reading of RFC 6536 is the latter, i.e. every node in the container 
needs to be annotated.  This is based on reading section 3.2.3, that 
describes how no access control is applied if the effective operation is 
'none', and section 3.4.5, where step 10 only mentions whether the data 
definition statement contains 'default-deny-write', not whether the data 
definition statement for any ancestor in the tree contains it.  From 
this, I infer that if only the container was annotated, and if the 
container already existed in the data tree, a client would still be able 
to write to the other nodes under the container.

However, RFC7317 contains an example where "container authentication" is 
annotated with nacm:default-deny-write, but none of the nodes under it 
are annotated.  This suggests that at least the intent of RFC6536 was 
that the annotation does apply to all the nodes within the container.

[Addendum: Martin points out there is also a similar example of "default-deny-all" in RFC6536 itself]

As one of the authors of both RFCs, can you help clarify?

Thanks,


    David


-- 
David Ball
<daviball@cisco.com>
--------------B95EC97C4CFC09D8B924108B-- From nobody Thu Aug 24 05:57:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF43B132937 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhRlZ3osSz8v for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8081326EC for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 05:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97DC41AE046A; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:57:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:55:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170824.145540.677818232128848327.mbj@tail-f.com> To: daviball@cisco.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <4d9e8555-dfb8-9c62-b51c-1b4b9a514618@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Fwd: NACM question X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 12:57:11 -0000 Hi, David Ball wrote: > I posed this question to Martin offline, but he asked me to post it to > netconf as it may feed into work on RFC6536bis. > > Note I am not subscribed to the list. > > > David > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: NACM question > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:41:03 +0100 > From: David Ball > To: Martin Bjorklund > > > > Hi Martin, > > I have a NACM question (this has come up on the IETF L3SM list). We > want > to use nacm:default-deny-write to prevent writes to a container and > all > of its contents - is it sufficient to just specify > nacm:default-deny-write on the container, or does it also need to be > specified on every node under the container as well? > > My reading of RFC 6536 is the latter, i.e. every node in the container > needs to be annotated. This is based on reading section 3.2.3, that > describes how no access control is applied if the effective operation > is > 'none', and section 3.4.5, where step 10 only mentions whether the > data > definition statement contains 'default-deny-write', not whether the > data > definition statement for any ancestor in the tree contains it. From > this, I infer that if only the container was annotated, and if the > container already existed in the data tree, a client would still be > able > to write to the other nodes under the container. > > However, RFC7317 contains an example where "container authentication" > is > annotated with nacm:default-deny-write, but none of the nodes under it > are annotated. This suggests that at least the intent of RFC6536 was > that the annotation does apply to all the nodes within the container. > > [Addendum: Martin points out there is also a similar example of > "default-deny-all" in RFC6536 itself] I think that the (implicit) intention was that the extension would be inherited by the descendants. As noted above, this is how current modules are written. However, it is not clear at all, so I think we should clarify this in 6536bis. /martin From nobody Thu Aug 24 06:52:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C56013295E for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 06:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vMuLQfNCCZ9t for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 06:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BADDD1326F4 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 06:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNG36764; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:52:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:52:28 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.219]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:52:23 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: daviball , "mbj@tail-f.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Fwd: NACM question Thread-Index: AQHTHOA1q96AZBdkx0+U16Pp/k5lVw== Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:52:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4d9e8555-dfb8-9c62-b51c-1b4b9a514618@cisco.com> , <20170824.145540.677818232128848327.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20170824.145540.677818232128848327.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Martin for confirmation, that is = to say the example in RFC 7317 is c= orrect.

-Qin
Sent from HUAWEI AnyOffice
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Martin Bjorklund
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA daviball;
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA netconf@ietf.org;
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [Netconf] Fwd: NACM question
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2017-08-24 20:57:39


Hi,

David Ball <daviball@cisco.com> wrote:
> I posed this question to Martin offline, but he asked me to post it to=
> netconf as it may feed into work on RFC6536bis.
>
> Note I am not subscribed to the list.
>
>
>     David
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject:       NACM question
> Date:  Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:41:03 +0100
> From:  David Ball <daviball@cisco.com>
> To:    Martin Bjorklund <mbjorklu@cisco.com>
>
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> I have a NACM question (this has come up on the IETF L3SM list). We > want
> to use nacm:default-deny-write to prevent writes to a container and > all
> of its contents - is it sufficient to just specify
> nacm:default-deny-write on the container, or does it also need to be > specified on every node under the container as well?
>
> My reading of RFC 6536 is the latter, i.e. every node in the container=
> needs to be annotated.  This is based on reading section 3.2.3, t= hat
> describes how no access control is applied if the effective operation<= br> > is
> 'none', and section 3.4.5, where step 10 only mentions whether the
> data
> definition statement contains 'default-deny-write', not whether the > data
> definition statement for any ancestor in the tree contains it.  F= rom
> this, I infer that if only the container was annotated, and if the
> container already existed in the data tree, a client would still be > able
> to write to the other nodes under the container.
>
> However, RFC7317 contains an example where "container authenticat= ion"
> is
> annotated with nacm:default-deny-write, but none of the nodes under it=
> are annotated.  This suggests that at least the intent of RFC6536= was
> that the annotation does apply to all the nodes within the container.<= br> >
> [Addendum: Martin points out there is also a similar example of
> "default-deny-all" in RFC6536 itself]

I think that the (implicit) intention was that the extension would be
inherited by the descendants.  As noted above, this is how current
modules are written.  However, it is not clear at all, so I think we should clarify this in 6536bis.


/martin

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
 --_000_etPan599eda166b8b45671e1fQinWudeiPhone_-- From nobody Thu Aug 24 08:07:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E584013237B; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 08:06:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150358721579.24468.8426236604695115178@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 08:06:55 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:06:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Library Authors : Andy Bierman Martin Bjorklund Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2017-08-24 Abstract: This document describes a YANG library that provides information about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of this information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 24 09:05:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA0F132BD5 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:05:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijKw40pVFvQm for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:05:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x230.google.com (mail-wr0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CED211320BD for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x230.google.com with SMTP id r6so4005836wrg.0 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:05:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1/itWz7nOhnrVdZGmqM+E6UbIwxjPrnLLLKVv9bsK+o=; b=NX6/Zq328GXNupikNO4ii24kX5EgspDnmT+suEAIIAnm/tSk+5qlk7PSWaIZ4kZ2gM xJqdDrNt2lREGY75+XAScn0c47m5mrO5JTyR0Q3OGMsxEcplVi7Rp4UGPxLw0rVkroUI BJi1BD63VnqC+ZsC9nTwmhhtLTCQjQhH9X5nyXig1LRRMxVXmJJYoyLsZmKsU5wMG24U CorwEF4E4UmZgU//L87uGE+ypGlrIHkLMkQJ7n+hNg2e9pBv/dL1R8SD1QV9yeGlJC0D jNr7mmAggpeF4Zc9zvGSoGvCieT8Ds133YUFUqMp60Fe9ONLe+s1xNUCvt2H3bmU6AcK twlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1/itWz7nOhnrVdZGmqM+E6UbIwxjPrnLLLKVv9bsK+o=; b=CnTQwqKfodIdf3xbuqwifLTKbu8JhOxpagr1ZIxErTqMREeEo5WqkbrrO+PwuHeAfp QfnOAf4Y61HX6MWMSTLUu8ccTrzPpf5+GO3tjV1LVdLP8aoN+n53E4V17mebw3qg1eqc F/k3psRPodD+fTQT2sKkfeWh+iEzJNyNpp/l7IkeqHpIu6ugEw4CCuvuFn4fYJItuVJ3 wFhYranFZR/XdKLKBtOUjVOBa9l54KlljeSyjst7LWg6Xz1aIJWd/rTprGhkU/XdiQ6v 5h7zA+UfeWKQea9zz79beYRMSXA9JrouKgrBEPz6gcMkajQ3iSV97xXZB0PUNgUglzmF BAJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jAxbn+QpmfjsnikeWWVNtFGdQDLUXXC70pdHCtj7qCem1gkEYV Yn9TmGkCcACRjeL7B2ufTXEdlK+3b+k5 X-Received: by 10.223.128.165 with SMTP id 34mr3850686wrl.116.1503590700376; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:05:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:04:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170824.142441.805099729739418168.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20170824.142441.805099729739418168.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: Kent Watsen , Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c05aeac957d9e055781fda2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:05:06 -0000 --94eb2c05aeac957d9e055781fda2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:24 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > I support the problem statement in this draft, but I have concerns > with the proposed solution. > > Currently, the notification message is defined in RFC 5277, for both > NETCONF and RESTCONF. It has a non-exensible header, and I agree that > it would be good to fix that. > > We have a set of notfication-related documents that are supposed to > replace RFC 5277, to make it more flexible. I think that one of the > documents in this set (not sure which one) needs to properly define a > new notification message, and introduce an extensibility mechanism for > the header. Then a followup document (like > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages) can use this extensibility > mechanism to define more common header fields. > > On another level, I'm also worried that this becomes a kitchen-sink of > various headers that may or may not useful. I would prefer an > initially small set of well thought-through headers, and work from > there. > > I would like to see these concerns addressed before the WG adopts this > document. > > I agree these issues need to be addressed. Many other protocols have these properties: 1) ability to add headers over time in separate RFCs 2) ability to identify mandatory vs. optional property (even if nothing else understood) 3) ability to skip over unknown optional headers > /martin > > Andy > > Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > All, > > > > This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > > NETCONF working group document: > > > > draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 [1] > > > > Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not > > support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the > > document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd like > > to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-voit-netconf- > notification-messages-01 > > > > > > Thank you, > > Kent (and Mahesh) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Netconf mailing list > > Netconf@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --94eb2c05aeac957d9e055781fda2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:24 AM, Martin Bjorklund <= ;mbj@tail-f.com>= wrote:
Hi,

I support the problem statement in this draft, but I have concerns
with the proposed solution.

Currently, the notification message is defined in RFC 5277, for both
NETCONF and RESTCONF.=C2=A0 It has a non-exensible header, and I agree that=
it would be good to fix that.

We have a set of notfication-related documents that are supposed to
replace RFC 5277, to make it more flexible.=C2=A0 I think that one of the documents in this set (not sure which one) needs to properly define a
new notification message, and introduce an extensibility mechanism for
the header.=C2=A0 Then a followup document (like
draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages) can use this extensibility mechanism to define more common header fields.

On another level, I'm also worried that this becomes a kitchen-sink of<= br> various headers that may or may not useful.=C2=A0 I would prefer an
initially small set of well thought-through headers, and work from
there.

I would like to see these concerns addressed before the WG adopts this
document.


I agree these issues need to be addres= sed.

Many other protocols have these properties:
=C2=A0 1) ability to add headers over time in separate RFCs
<= div>=C2=A0 2) ability to identify mandatory vs. optional property (even if = nothing else understood)
=C2=A0 3) ability to skip over unknown o= ptional headers


/martin


Andy
=C2=A0

Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net<= /a>> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a
> NETCONF working group document:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 [1]
>
> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or &q= uot;no/do not
> support".=C2=A0 If indicating no, please state your reservations = with the
> document.=C2=A0 If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you&= #39;d like
> to see addressed once the document is a WG document.
>
>
> [1] https://tools.ietf.org= /id/draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01
>
>
> Thank you,
> Kent (and Mahesh)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Netconf mailing list
> Netconf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf=
>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

--94eb2c05aeac957d9e055781fda2-- From nobody Thu Aug 24 09:57:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E962C126BF0 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acjj4AYNJP6e for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66131126B6D for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id b189so323181wmd.0 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aIbULZEce/m0g9kw+I2O3S9t74NDBIlVvShanvjrPus=; b=Ou+gwM+V0bxvRiO8kEZGG6O8SP5RKuVdgnZlOyiqxaPFYMgO87+6joW/e7rDanQbOE Di2rZeuyhAMm3kNnWJSi1GfiZGCcVVcXETbc4UtQotQesP5zkNOu/ls+aYO5aEWyzTmC wkpfdfcDZf2DOOSXZC1cJ8DQ5wmx40YV+yJfwJfFj0o8Vo5/6A2rnCwS36OTccuvXcfF BAdjL9NdIBiX6l/sfidobNQRn4fYFCTRouf1EXhA/4mPSNskcXHEywD/2odSbCUPKu+l atFMjRrE7Ch+eo/elXmi9qLYLbVrHEK6FPR6C/70tdsrCBdehHOsUSlVpiSngMvEIY7p Hdgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aIbULZEce/m0g9kw+I2O3S9t74NDBIlVvShanvjrPus=; b=pR1lxsuKycopOnE9wKd4F1WBj2Z3/eKN6zj5OQeBl0ZlgpnbGmHcvfJBnXuPoJXm6z 1E79sITK5Rkk/ez2L/wBr/Q9AQ6X5kMXmCTL36XGzi8W4zexEI9Rzb5stsCI9NWKPYWW 1rSTZ+xITxkUz8INSsFBYm5ItXyjvF0uSvwQkXkFnch45wJjZ+3y6z4o+hkCPOH5i192 39SJRLV57yAbQJ8IN/K/lc/osfyirmFahZXw5YBUQwZP9hrFeLbjUWgmACeH5Fngvqxb rsEcHIWO5WApXAg5HEqeHVr5EzdMxwzNOOB5rh0/GaMH0O7MtnBPdCR5J8k8ufJjMffX nGzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hfHuPmMXPUTES9NIyQTMV9R0EiP3HruisG8bQWX3R9fHvR93Mi 74g4s6cmkKv/sgbNXUQSxbQjdz/XYuVX X-Received: by 10.28.159.141 with SMTP id i135mr511969wme.153.1503593847759; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:57:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Giles Heron Cc: Tianran Zhou , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144e7f62ecaf0055782b970" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:57:33 -0000 --001a1144e7f62ecaf0055782b970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Giles Heron wrote: > Hi Tianran, > > even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled data= (note > you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or NETCONF/RESTCONF) I sus= pect you > can still build upon work others have done on reliable UDP mechanisms etc= . > Even RTP does most of what you want (as it has sequence numbers, > timestamps, sender IDs, support for different payload encodings etc.) - > through granted it is targeted at a very different application space. > > and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it migh= t > be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether > reliability and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as > currently defined) and so on... > > I don't understand why we bother to organize the IETF into areas of expertise, if we are just going to ignore that and produce ad-hoc point solutions in any WG. IMO the NETCONF WG does not have the transport area expertise to to a great job on this work. Clearly the transport area has the experts to understand all pre-existing solutions and all pre-existing issues (like congestion). How is the IESG going to ensure that there are sufficient transport area experts involved in the entire development cycle for this standard? Giles > Andy > > > On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > > Hi Giles, > > > > I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. > Please see: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/ > > > > I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also > separate the subscription model from this document. As things progressed, > now maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as a support > documents. > > > > We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt UD= P > for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG Push wor= k. > > The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the > configuration/subscription. > > So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension. > > And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work is > important and can be done in NETCONF. > > > > Thanks, > > Tianran > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM > >> To: Tianran Zhou > >> Cc: netconf@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >> > >> Hi Tianran, > >> > >> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts (on= e for the > >> problem statement and one for the solution)? That way you can progres= s > those > >> separately. > >> > >> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define your o= wn > >> transport in a NETCONF draft. Adding reliability to UDP is a solved > problem > >> (many times over) so you should be able to pick one of the existing > solutions. > >> > >> Giles > >> > >>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou wrote= : > >>> > >>> Hi Giles, > >>> > >>> Thank you very much for your review and comments. > >>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possible issue= s > >> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some TB= Ds > >> in the detailed solution part. > >>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on the > >> solution together with the community contributions. > >>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the ne= w > >> revision internally. > >>> In line, please see my reply. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Tianran > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles > >>>> Heron > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM > >>>> To: netconf@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>> > >>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft: > >>>> > >>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests > generating > >>>> it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. Perhaps a= n EUI-64 > makes > >>>> more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP packets tend to > >>>> have source IP addresses? > >>> > >>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of the data= . > >> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So in t= he > >> new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the devic= e > >> level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number. > >>> > >>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT? > >>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think about. We > >> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are in > the > >> same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will be us= ed > >> when collecting data? > >>> > >>>> Or of correlating > >>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system that may > >>>> have different source IP addresses? > >>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the same > source > >> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I thi= nk > >> the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP to > device. > >>> > >>> > >>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and > >>>> says those are as per RFC3339. From my reading of RFC3339 it encode= s > >>>> dates/times as strings. > >>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the encodi= ng > >> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp on > message > >> generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend to modify to= : > >>> "The Notification-Time, is the time at which the message leaves th= e > >>> exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 January > >>> 1970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer." > >>> > >>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems like = a > >>>> strange choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable delivery? > >>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see > >>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on UDP > >> is better than TCP). > >>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechanism for > UDP. > >> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from the > >> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the packet > loss/ > >> reordering or so. > >>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different levels. > The > >> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to record > the > >> packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmission but no > >> ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP seems not a > good > >> option. > >>> > >>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting encodings, > adding > >>>> authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work you c= an > >> reuse > >>>> there rather than defining your own. > >>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming updat= e > >> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription model > may > >> move to a separate document. And we are not going to create > authentication > >> algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to truncate to fit in th= e > >> header field. We will reuse existing work as much as possible. > >>> > >>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say anyth= ing we > >>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already... > >>>> > >>>> Giles > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes/Support. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>> Zhenbin(Robin) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.o= rg] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6= =97=A5 6:04 > >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>>> > >>>>> All, > >>>>> > >>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > >>>>> NETCONF > >>>> working group document: > >>>>> > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] > >>>>> > >>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do no= t > >>>> support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with the > >>>> document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments you'd > >>>> like to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> [1] > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> Kent (and Mahesh) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1144e7f62ecaf0055782b970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Hi Tianran,

even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled data (= note you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or NETCONF/RESTCONF) I = suspect you can still build upon work others have done on reliable UDP mech= anisms etc.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Even RTP does most of what you want (as it has seq= uence numbers, timestamps, sender IDs, support for different payload encodi= ngs etc.) - through granted it is targeted at a very different application = space.

and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it might = be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether reliabilit= y and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as currently de= fined) and so on...


I don't understand why we bother t= o organize the IETF into areas of expertise, if we are just going to
<= div>ignore that and produce ad-hoc point solutions in any WG.=C2=A0 IMO the= NETCONF WG does not have
the transport area expertise to to a gr= eat job on this work.=C2=A0 Clearly the transport area has the experts
to understand all pre-existing solutions and all pre-existing issues = (like congestion).

How is the IESG going to ensure= that there are sufficient transport area experts involved
in the= entire development cycle for this standard?


<= /div>

Giles

Andy
=C2=A0

> On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Giles,
>
> I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. Pl= ease see:
> https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/
>
> I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also s= eparate the subscription model from this document. As things progressed, no= w maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as a support documen= ts.
>
> We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt U= DP for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG Pus= h work.
> The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the configurati= on/subscription.
> So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension.
> And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work i= s important and can be done in NETCONF.
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM
>> To: Tianran Zhou
>> Cc: netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>
>> Hi Tianran,
>>
>> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts= (one for the
>> problem statement and one for the solution)?=C2=A0 That way you ca= n progress those
>> separately.
>>
>> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define yo= ur own
>> transport in a NETCONF draft.=C2=A0 Adding reliability to UDP is a= solved problem
>> (many times over) so you should be able to pick one of the existin= g solutions.
>>
>> Giles
>>
>>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Giles,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your review and comments.
>>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possibl= e issues
>> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are som= e TBDs
>> in the detailed solution part.
>>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work= on the
>> solution together with the community contributions.
>>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on= the new
>> revision internally.
>>> In line, please see my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tianran
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles
>>>> Heron
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM
>>>> To: netconf@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>
>>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft:
>>>>
>>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then sugge= sts generating
>>>> it from the MAC address.=C2=A0 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t = go.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Perhaps an EUI-64 makes
>>>> more sense?=C2=A0 Or do you even need this given that UDP = packets tend to
>>>> have source IP addresses?
>>>
>>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of t= he data.
>> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So = in the
>> new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the d= evice
>> level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number.
>>>
>>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT?
>>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think ab= out. We
>> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are= in the
>> same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will b= e used
>> when collecting data?
>>>
>>>> Or of correlating
>>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system= that may
>>>> have different source IP addresses?
>>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the= same source
>> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I= think
>> the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP t= o device.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseco= nds and
>>>> says those are as per RFC3339.=C2=A0 From my reading of RF= C3339 it encodes
>>>> dates/times as strings.
>>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the= encoding
>> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp= on message
>> generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend to modif= y to:
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The Notification-Time, is the time at which= the message leaves the
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0exporter, expressed in seconds since the UN= IX epoch of 1 January
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 3= 2-bit integer."
>>>
>>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP s= eems like a
>>>> strange choice.=C2=A0 Why not just use TCP if you want rel= iable delivery?
>>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if yo= u see
>>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability ba= sed on UDP
>> is better than TCP).
>>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechani= sm for UDP.
>> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from t= he
>> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the pac= ket loss/
>> reordering or so.
>>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different l= evels. The
>> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to rec= ord the
>> packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmission bu= t no
>> ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP seems not= a good
>> option.
>>>
>>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting en= codings, adding
>>>> authentication/encryption options).=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Again the= re may be work you can
>> reuse
>>>> there rather than defining your own.
>>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the comin= g update
>> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription m= odel may
>> move to a separate document. And we are not going to create authen= tication
>> algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to truncate to fit i= n the
>> header field. We will reuse existing work as much as possible.
>>>
>>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really= say anything we
>>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already...
>>>>
>>>> Giles
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes/Support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Zhenbin(Robin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48= =E6=9C=8822=E6=97=A5 6:04
>>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the followi= ng draft a
>>>>> NETCONF
>>>> working group document:
>>>>>
>>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1]
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/sup= port" or "no/do not
>>>> support".=C2=A0 If indicating no, please state your r= eservations with the
>>>> document.=C2=A0 If yes, please also feel free to provide c= omments you'd
>>>> like to see addressed once the document is a WG document.<= br> >>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Kent (and Mahesh)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netconf
>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netconf
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/netconf
>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
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(evoit)" To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund CC: Netconf Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTHPLd9+7kz5EjxEipRVcS/prvxKKTylYA Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:29:27 +0000 Message-ID: <966262187e804ed78b1317cff9a20047@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <20170824.142441.805099729739418168.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_966262187e804ed78b1317cff9a20047XCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 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; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-40-225.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.40.225]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 808781AE046A; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:42:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:43:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170824.204336.993345371581440417.mbj@tail-f.com> To: evoit@cisco.com Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <966262187e804ed78b1317cff9a20047@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> References: <20170824.142441.805099729739418168.mbj@tail-f.com> <966262187e804ed78b1317cff9a20047@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , 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L2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCj4gPg0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTmV0Y29uZkBp ZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86TmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+IA0KPA0K From nobody Thu Aug 24 14:11:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6831E132026; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:11:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:11:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:11:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA Authors : Martin Bjorklund Juergen Schoenwaelder Phil Shafer Kent Watsen Robert Wilton Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2017-08-24 Abstract: This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support the Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 24 15:54:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD02C1329BD for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:54:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVpzVi12LDxv for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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<644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F846A@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.177] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.599F5906.0153, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ae3aeefad677d6dcce69a62f10692097 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] Regarding IPR on draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:54:03 -0000 Tm8sIEknbSBub3QgYXdhcmUgb2YgYW55IElQUiB0aGF0IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gdGhlIGRyYWZ0DQot LS0gQWxleA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogS2VudCBXYXRzZW4g W21haWx0bzprd2F0c2VuQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0XSANClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgQXVndXN0IDIxLCAy MDE3IDM6MDYgUE0NClRvOiBaaGVuZ2d1YW5neWluZyAoV2Fsa2VyKSA8emhlbmdndWFuZ3lpbmdA aHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IFRpYW5yYW4gWmhvdSA8emhvdXRpYW5yYW5AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IEFsZXhh bmRlciBDbGVtbSA8YWxleGFuZGVyLmNsZW1tQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQpDYzogbmV0Y29uZkBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmVnYXJkaW5nIElQUiBvbiBkcmFmdC16aGVuZy1uZXRjb25mLXVkcC1w dWItY2hhbm5lbC0wMA0KDQpBdXRob3JzLA0KDQpBcyBwYXJ0IG9mIHByZXBhcmF0aW9uIGZvciBX RyBBZG9wdGlvbiBvZiAiZHJhZnQtemhlbmctbmV0Y29uZi11ZHAtcHViLWNoYW5uZWwtMDAiLCBh cmUgeW91IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhhdCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQ/DQoNClBs ZWFzZSBzdGF0ZSBlaXRoZXI6DQogICAgIk5vLCBJJ20gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgdGhh dCBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQiDQogIG9yDQogICAgIlllcywgSSdtIGF3YXJlIG9mIElQ UiB0aGF0IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8gdGhpcyBkcmFmdCINCg0KDQpJZiBzbywgaGFzIHRoaXMgSVBSIGJl 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Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+Pj4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+PiBodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldGNvbmYNCj4gDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpOZXRjb25mIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K TmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9u ZXRjb25mDQo= From nobody Thu Aug 24 16:46:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF3F13239C for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b2n0u33XEQzA for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 074091321C8 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id z132so1211295wmg.1 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=78KRdNUwCsAtlIjHTULo3juhFQ15PYrYszLXYTTnXSg=; b=jkM5+Reawi1agB8M9LqWRiyvMLmQZPTb0CFzUN0gNpkiKdpSJyV6PHBBMGbBFaUjTv 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10.28.16.133 with SMTP id 127mr163181wmq.75.1503618370397; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F84B1@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F84B1@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 16:46:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexander Clemm Cc: Giles Heron , Tianran Zhou , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146d950d87bca0557886e9a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 23:46:16 -0000 --001a1146d950d87bca0557886e9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Alexander Clemm wrote: > Couple of thoughts from my side: > > - Clearly, this addresses a valid problem. Whether we should talk to > transport area or keep here, not sure. I am wondering where else it woul= d > fit charter-wise, and how much that would slow progress down. Netconf > already has all the context that is needed. > This is clearly a general problem. NETCONF is not the first protocol WG that wants to push lots of data around= . I think IPFIX spent a lot of time on transport issues, maybe other WGs as well. No need to reinvent the wheel, right? NETCONF is OK for this work as long as early cross-area reviews are done. > - There are actually two aspects in the draft. One concerns the UDP > transport option that we are discussion here. The other aspect concerns > the fact that can have multiple message originators, such as multiple lin= e > cards each with its own stream but managed via one subscription. This i= s > what is currently outlined in section 3. Maybe this is something that > should be broken out into a separate draft, as potentially applicable to > other transports, but that aspect arguably fits much better with netconf. > > I agree YANG Push/NETCONF WG needs to define how a subscription can be transported. This includes 1 subscription with multiple receivers or multiple source addresses. Things get complicated if there are both on 1 subscription. (That's 1 reason why I prefer to have only 1 receiver per subscription + a shorthand way to config duplicate subscriptions). > --- Alex > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles Heron > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:35 AM > To: Tianran Zhou > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub- > channel-00 > > Hi Tianran, > > even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled data= (note > you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or NETCONF/RESTCONF) I sus= pect you > can still build upon work others have done on reliable UDP mechanisms etc= . > Even RTP does most of what you want (as it has sequence numbers, > timestamps, sender IDs, support for different payload encodings etc.) - > through granted it is targeted at a very different application space. > > and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it migh= t > be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether > reliability and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as > currently defined) and so on... > > Giles > > > On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou wrote: > > > > Hi Giles, > > > > I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. > Please see: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/ > > > > I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also > separate the subscription model from this document. As things progressed, > now maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as a support > documents. > > > > We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt UD= P > for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG Push wor= k. > > The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the > configuration/subscription. > > So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension. > > And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work is > important and can be done in NETCONF. > > > > Thanks, > > Tianran > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM > >> To: Tianran Zhou > >> Cc: netconf@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >> > >> Hi Tianran, > >> > >> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts (on= e for > >> the problem statement and one for the solution)? That way you can > >> progress those separately. > >> > >> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define your > >> own transport in a NETCONF draft. Adding reliability to UDP is a > >> solved problem (many times over) so you should be able to pick one of > the existing solutions. > >> > >> Giles > >> > >>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou wrote= : > >>> > >>> Hi Giles, > >>> > >>> Thank you very much for your review and comments. > >>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possible > >>> issues > >> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some > >> TBDs in the detailed solution part. > >>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on > >>> the > >> solution together with the community contributions. > >>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the > >>> new > >> revision internally. > >>> In line, please see my reply. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Tianran > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles > >>>> Heron > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM > >>>> To: netconf@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>> > >>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft: > >>>> > >>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests > generating > >>>> it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. Perhaps a= n EUI-64 > makes > >>>> more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP packets tend > >>>> to have source IP addresses? > >>> > >>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of the data= . > >> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So in > >> the new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the > >> device level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number. > >>> > >>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT? > >>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think about. > >>> We > >> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are in > >> the same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will > >> be used when collecting data? > >>> > >>>> Or of correlating > >>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system that may > >>>> have different source IP addresses? > >>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the same > >>> source > >> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I > >> think the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP > to device. > >>> > >>> > >>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and > >>>> says those are as per RFC3339. From my reading of RFC3339 it > >>>> encodes dates/times as strings. > >>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the > >>> encoding > >> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp on > >> message generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend to > modify to: > >>> "The Notification-Time, is the time at which the message leaves th= e > >>> exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 January > >>> 1970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer." > >>> > >>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems like > >>>> a strange choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable deliver= y? > >>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see > >>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on > >>>> UDP > >> is better than TCP). > >>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechanism for > UDP. > >> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from the > >> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the packet > >> loss/ reordering or so. > >>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different levels. > >>> The > >> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to record > >> the packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmission > >> but no ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP seems > >> not a good option. > >>> > >>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting encodings, > adding > >>>> authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work you c= an > >> reuse > >>>> there rather than defining your own. > >>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming > >>> update > >> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription > >> model may move to a separate document. And we are not going to create > >> authentication algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to > >> truncate to fit in the header field. We will reuse existing work as > much as possible. > >>> > >>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say anyth= ing we > >>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already... > >>>> > >>>> Giles > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes/Support. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>> Zhenbin(Robin) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.o= rg] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6= =97=A5 6:04 > >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>>> > >>>>> All, > >>>>> > >>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > >>>>> NETCONF > >>>> working group document: > >>>>> > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] > >>>>> > >>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do > >>>>> not > >>>> support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with > >>>> the document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments > >>>> you'd like to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> [1] > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> Kent (and Mahesh) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --001a1146d950d87bca0557886e9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Alexander Clemm <= alexander.c= lemm@huawei.com> wrote:
Cou= ple of thoughts from my side:

- Clearly, this addresses a valid problem.=C2=A0 Whether we should talk to = transport area or keep here, not sure.=C2=A0 I am wondering where else it w= ould fit charter-wise, and how much that would slow progress down.=C2=A0 Ne= tconf already has all the context that is needed.

=
This is clearly a general problem.
NETCONF is not the = first protocol WG that wants to push lots of data around.
I think= IPFIX spent a lot of time on transport issues, maybe other WGs as well.
No need to reinvent the wheel, right?

NETC= ONF is OK for this work as long as early cross-area reviews are done.
=

=C2=A0
- There are actually two aspects in the draft.=C2=A0 One concerns the UDP t= ransport option that we are discussion here.=C2=A0 The other aspect concern= s the fact that can have multiple message originators, such as multiple lin= e cards each with its own stream but managed via one subscription.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0This is what is currently outlined in section 3.=C2=A0 Maybe this is = something that should be broken out into a separate draft, as potentially a= pplicable to other transports, but that aspect arguably fits much better wi= th netconf.


I agree YANG Push/NETCONF WG needs to = define how a subscription can be transported.
This includes 1 sub= scription with multiple receivers or multiple source addresses.
T= hings get complicated if there are both on 1 subscription. (That's 1 re= ason why I prefer
to have only 1 receiver per subscription + a sh= orthand way to config duplicate subscriptions).

=C2=A0
--- Alex

Andy
=C2=A0

-----Original Message-----
From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles Heron
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:35 AM
To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@= huawei.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-ch= annel-00

Hi Tianran,

even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled data (= note you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or NETCONF/RESTCONF) I = suspect you can still build upon work others have done on reliable UDP mech= anisms etc.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Even RTP does most of what you want (as it has seq= uence numbers, timestamps, sender IDs, support for different payload encodi= ngs etc.) - through granted it is targeted at a very different application = space.

and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it might = be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether reliabilit= y and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as currently de= fined) and so on...

Giles

> On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Giles,
>
> I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. Pl= ease see:
> https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/
>
> I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also s= eparate the subscription model from this document. As things progressed, no= w maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as a support documen= ts.
>
> We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt U= DP for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG Pus= h work.
> The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the configurati= on/subscription.
> So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension.
> And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work i= s important and can be done in NETCONF.
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM
>> To: Tianran Zhou
>> Cc: netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>
>> Hi Tianran,
>>
>> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts= (one for
>> the problem statement and one for the solution)?=C2=A0 That way yo= u can
>> progress those separately.
>>
>> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define yo= ur
>> own transport in a NETCONF draft.=C2=A0 Adding reliability to UDP = is a
>> solved problem (many times over) so you should be able to pick one= of the existing solutions.
>>
>> Giles
>>
>>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Giles,
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your review and comments.
>>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possibl= e
>>> issues
>> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are som= e
>> TBDs in the detailed solution part.
>>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work= on
>>> the
>> solution together with the community contributions.
>>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on= the
>>> new
>> revision internally.
>>> In line, please see my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tianran
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles
>>>> Heron
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM
>>>> To: netconf@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>
>>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft:
>>>>
>>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then sugge= sts generating
>>>> it from the MAC address.=C2=A0 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t = go.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Perhaps an EUI-64 makes
>>>> more sense?=C2=A0 Or do you even need this given that UDP = packets tend
>>>> to have source IP addresses?
>>>
>>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of t= he data.
>> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So = in
>> the new version, we are going to use an message generator id for t= he
>> device level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number.
>>>
>>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT?
>>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think ab= out.
>>> We
>> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are= in
>> the same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT wi= ll
>> be used when collecting data?
>>>
>>>> Or of correlating
>>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system= that may
>>>> have different source IP addresses?
>>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the= same
>>> source
>> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I=
>> think the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the sourc= e IP to device.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseco= nds and
>>>> says those are as per RFC3339.=C2=A0 From my reading of RF= C3339 it
>>>> encodes dates/times as strings.
>>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the=
>>> encoding
>> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp= on
>> message generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend = to modify to:
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "The Notification-Time, is the time at which= the message leaves the
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0exporter, expressed in seconds since the UN= IX epoch of 1 January
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 3= 2-bit integer."
>>>
>>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP s= eems like
>>>> a strange choice.=C2=A0 Why not just use TCP if you want r= eliable delivery?
>>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if yo= u see
>>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability ba= sed on
>>>> UDP
>> is better than TCP).
>>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechani= sm for UDP.
>> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from t= he
>> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the pac= ket
>> loss/ reordering or so.
>>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different l= evels.
>>> The
>> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to rec= ord
>> the packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmissio= n
>> but no ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP se= ems
>> not a good option.
>>>
>>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting en= codings, adding
>>>> authentication/encryption options).=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Again the= re may be work you can
>> reuse
>>>> there rather than defining your own.
>>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the comin= g
>>> update
>> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription >> model may move to a separate document. And we are not going to cre= ate
>> authentication algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to >> truncate to fit in the header field. We will reuse existing work a= s much as possible.
>>>
>>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really= say anything we
>>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already...
>>>>
>>>> Giles
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes/Support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Zhenbin(Robin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48= =E6=9C=8822=E6=97=A5 6:04
>>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the followi= ng draft a
>>>>> NETCONF
>>>> working group document:
>>>>>
>>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1]
>>>>>
>>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/sup= port" or "no/do
>>>>> not
>>>> support".=C2=A0 If indicating no, please state your r= eservations with
>>>> the document.=C2=A0 If yes, please also feel free to provi= de comments
>>>> you'd like to see addressed once the document is a WG = document.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Kent (and Mahesh)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netconf
>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netconf
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>> Netconf@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/netconf
>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br> _______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf<= br>

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([169.254.3.191]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.148]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:08:50 -0700 From: Alexander Clemm To: Andy Bierman CC: Giles Heron , Tianran Zhou , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKPmyOggAEKYgCAAW3rAIAAW6sAgAEJIoCAAGGZAIAASyXQgACBHID//5CYoA== Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:08:48 +0000 Message-ID: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F86FF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F84B1@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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id MqUR4Um69XKx for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D07E5132A16 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 20:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNH15509; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:19:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 04:19:57 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 11:19:53 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Giles Heron CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 Thread-Index: AQHTGslpu+5gO8PnQEm3VBneSJzb9qKPmyOggAAO7QCAAdbTIP//8sMAgAGEvCD//+X/AIABjJPw Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:19:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.156.116] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.599F9760.0028, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ad0e13863e367fc0d2678f4196c78c89 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:20:12 -0000 SGkgR2lsZXMsDQoNCkl0J3Mgb3BlbiB3aGV0aGVyIHRvIGRlc2lnbiB0aGUgdHJhbnNwb3J0Lg0K Rm9yIHJlZmVyZW5jZSwgSSB0aGluayBJUEZJWCBhbmQgU05NUCB0cmFwIGFyZSBhbHNvIHJlbGV2 YW50Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpUaWFucmFuDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N Cj4gRnJvbTogR2lsZXMgSGVyb24gW21haWx0bzpnaWxlcy5oZXJvbkBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQo+IFNl bnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMjQsIDIwMTcgNzozNSBQTQ0KPiBUbzogVGlhbnJhbiBaaG91 DQo+IENjOiBuZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTmV0Y29uZl0gV0cgYWRv cHRpb24gcG9sbA0KPiBkcmFmdC16aGVuZy1uZXRjb25mLXVkcC1wdWItY2hhbm5lbC0wMA0KPiAN Cj4gSGkgVGlhbnJhbiwNCj4gDQo+IGV2ZW4gaWYgeW914oCZcmUgYWRhcHRpbmcgVURQIGZvciBw 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aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ID4NCg0K From nobody Thu Aug 24 22:42:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B76132814 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 85wnIhlwxs6w for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C49E1132811 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 22:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DUC86567; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 05:42:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML710-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 06:42:05 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com ([fe80::a54a:89d2:c471:ff]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 13:41:56 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Martin Bjorklund , "evoit@cisco.com" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 Thread-Index: AQHTGsmq2KiStu0LpUC+dtqUvYwssaKS7DuAgAA9jYCAAChdgIAAA/UAgAEctnA= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 05:41:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: 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Aug 25 00:10:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C063132A57 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:10:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xCdeGmHAJicF for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:10:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA54B132A55 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 00:10:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-40-225.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.40.225]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DED2B1AE02C9; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:10:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:11:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170825.091144.2268111396098840213.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: evoit@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F86E5@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <966262187e804ed78b1317cff9a20047@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <20170824.204336.993345371581440417.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F86E5@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 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<644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F86FF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> Cc: Andy Bierman , Tianran Zhou , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Alexander Clemm References: <05545A83-FEB9-486F-9003-8ADD500D5884@juniper.net> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D8E8D3F56@dggemm512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1F38FB23-119A-4E36-8D5F-E43B48DE7110@gmail.com> <0E62E635-4708-40D0-A0E5-2850C9567B84@gmail.com> <37CC29AB-6487-46EA-ADFE-48C3D29DAF6D@gmail.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F84B1@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F86FF@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 09:34:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_77613031-21B5-4EBB-BA50-B49B0C088A4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Alex, > On 25 Aug 2017, at 01:08, Alexander Clemm = wrote: >=20 > Hi Andy > =20 > , inline > =20 > --- Alex > =20 > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com = ]=20 > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:46 PM > To: Alexander Clemm > > Cc: Giles Heron >; Tianran Zhou >; netconf@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Alexander Clemm = > wrote: > Couple of thoughts from my side: >=20 > - Clearly, this addresses a valid problem. Whether we should talk to = transport area or keep here, not sure. I am wondering where else it = would fit charter-wise, and how much that would slow progress down. = Netconf already has all the context that is needed. > =20 > This is clearly a general problem. > NETCONF is not the first protocol WG that wants to push lots of data = around. > I think IPFIX spent a lot of time on transport issues, maybe other WGs = as well. > No need to reinvent the wheel, right? > =20 > NETCONF is OK for this work as long as early cross-area reviews are = done. > =20 > Sounds reasonable to me likewise. Hopefully the transport folk can point the authors in the = right direction. As Andy says - we want to avoid reinventing the wheel. > - There are actually two aspects in the draft. One concerns the UDP = transport option that we are discussion here. The other aspect concerns = the fact that can have multiple message originators, such as multiple = line cards each with its own stream but managed via one subscription. = This is what is currently outlined in section 3. Maybe this is = something that should be broken out into a separate draft, as = potentially applicable to other transports, but that aspect arguably = fits much better with netconf. >=20 > =20 > I agree YANG Push/NETCONF WG needs to define how a subscription can be = transported. > This includes 1 subscription with multiple receivers or multiple = source addresses. > Things get complicated if there are both on 1 subscription. (That's 1 = reason why I prefer > to have only 1 receiver per subscription + a shorthand way to config = duplicate subscriptions). > =20 > Actually, this here is a different case =E2=80=93 not = concerning receivers =E2=80=93 we will have multiple senders per = subscription=E2=80=A6 >=20 right - =E2=80=9Cmultiple source addresses=E2=80=9D as Andy stated? Giles > =20 > --- Alex > =20 > Andy > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Giles Heron > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:35 AM > To: Tianran Zhou > > Cc: netconf@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 >=20 > Hi Tianran, >=20 > even if you=E2=80=99re adapting UDP for publication of YANG-modelled = data (note you=E2=80=99re NOT adapting it for publication or = NETCONF/RESTCONF) I suspect you can still build upon work others have = done on reliable UDP mechanisms etc. Even RTP does most of what you = want (as it has sequence numbers, timestamps, sender IDs, support for = different payload encodings etc.) - through granted it is targeted at a = very different application space. >=20 > and if you do persist in trying to define your own transport then it = might be worth thinking about whether you need a length field, whether = reliability and authentication are per-stream (rather than per-packet as = currently defined) and so on... >=20 > Giles >=20 > > On 24 Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou > wrote: > > > > Hi Giles, > > > > I just updated the draft submission, so as to answer your question. = Please see: > > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel/ = > > > > I tried to make it a complete work with both ps and solution. I also = separate the subscription model from this document. As things = progressed, now maybe a separate ps is not necessary to be published as = a support documents. > > > > We are not going to define a general purpose transport, but to adapt = UDP for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. It's highly related to YANG = Push work. > > The publication channel behavior will highly depend on the = configuration/subscription. > > So I feel NETCONF is the right place to do this extension. > > And I believe the show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work = is important and can be done in NETCONF. > > > > Thanks, > > Tianran > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com = ] > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM > >> To: Tianran Zhou > >> Cc: netconf@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >> > >> Hi Tianran, > >> > >> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d be better to split this into 2 drafts = (one for > >> the problem statement and one for the solution)? That way you can > >> progress those separately. > >> > >> Re UDP vs TCP my point was more that it seems strange to define = your > >> own transport in a NETCONF draft. Adding reliability to UDP is a > >> solved problem (many times over) so you should be able to pick one = of the existing solutions. > >> > >> Giles > >> > >>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Giles, > >>> > >>> Thank you very much for your review and comments. > >>> This version we were going to state the problem, raise possible > >>> issues > >> that may need to solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some > >> TBDs in the detailed solution part. > >>> We hope the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on > >>> the > >> solution together with the community contributions. > >>> Since last meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the > >>> new > >> revision internally. > >>> In line, please see my reply. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Tianran > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Giles > >>>> Heron > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM > >>>> To: netconf@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>> > >>>> There seem to be a few issues with this draft: > >>>> > >>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID and then suggests = generating > >>>> it from the MAC address. 48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go. = Perhaps an EUI-64 makes > >>>> more sense? Or do you even need this given that UDP packets tend > >>>> to have source IP addresses? > >>> > >>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate the source of the = data. > >> Just as you suggested, the UDP session identifier can be used. So = in > >> the new version, we are going to use an message generator id for = the > >> device level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port number. > >>> > >>>> Or are you thinking in terms of NAT? > >>> [ztr] The NAT issue is a good catch, which we did not think about. > >>> We > >> assumed the device management port/interface and the collector are = in > >> the same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT = will > >> be used when collecting data? > >>> > >>>> Or of correlating > >>>> notifications from different line-cards on the same system that = may > >>>> have different source IP addresses? > >>> [ztr] We suggest all the line cards on the same system use the = same > >>> source > >> IP address. But the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I > >> think the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source = IP to device. > >>> > >>> > >>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds and microseconds and > >>>> says those are as per RFC3339. =46rom my reading of RFC3339 it > >>>> encodes dates/times as strings. > >>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We meant to say the > >>> encoding > >> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems the timestamp = on > >> message generation is not so important to be accurate. So we tend = to modify to: > >>> "The Notification-Time, is the time at which the message leaves = the > >>> exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 = January > >>> 1970 at 00:00 UTC, encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer." > >>> > >>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism on top of UDP seems = like > >>>> a strange choice. Why not just use TCP if you want reliable = delivery? > >>>> Or re-use existing work on adding reliability to UDP if you see > >>>> issues with TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on > >>>> UDP > >> is better than TCP). > >>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the full reliability mechanism = for UDP. > >> We just want to provide necessary support (sequence number) from = the > >> transport. Then the application can decide the reaction to the = packet > >> loss/ reordering or so. > >>> In addition, I think the reliability may also have different = levels. > >>> The > >> application may not care about any packet loss, or may need to = record > >> the packet loss but not need retransmission, or need retransmission > >> but no ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP = seems > >> not a good option. > >>> > >>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD (e.g. selecting = encodings, adding > >>>> authentication/encryption options). Again there may be work = you can > >> reuse > >>>> there rather than defining your own. > >>> [ztr] Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming > >>> update > >> will focus on the necessary parts. For example, the subscription > >> model may move to a separate document. And we are not going to = create > >> authentication algorithms, but to suggest algorithms and how to > >> truncate to fit in the header field. We will reuse existing work as = much as possible. > >>> > >>>> sections 1 - 3 are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say = anything we > >>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already... > >>>> > >>>> Giles > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Aug 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes/Support. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>> Zhenbin(Robin) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org ] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen > >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6= =97=A5 6:04 > >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org = > >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 > >>>>> > >>>>> All, > >>>>> > >>>>> This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a > >>>>> NETCONF > >>>> working group document: > >>>>> > >>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 [1] > >>>>> > >>>>> Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do > >>>>> not > >>>> support". If indicating no, please state your reservations with > >>>> the document. If yes, please also feel free to provide comments > >>>> you'd like to see addressed once the document is a WG document. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> [1] > >>>> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 = > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> Kent (and Mahesh) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Netconf mailing list > >>>> Netconf@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf = --Apple-Mail=_77613031-21B5-4EBB-BA50-B49B0C088A4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Alex,

On 25 Aug 2017, at 01:08, = Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Andy
 
<ALEX>, = inline
 
--- Alex
 
From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 = 4:46 PM
To: Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com>
Cc: Giles= Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>; Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>; netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption = poll draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 = at 4:12 PM, Alexander Clemm <alexander.clemm@huawei.com> wrote:
Couple of thoughts = from my side:

- Clearly, this addresses a = valid problem.  Whether we should talk to transport area or keep = here, not sure.  I am wondering where else it would fit = charter-wise, and how much that would slow progress down.  Netconf = already has all the context that is needed.
 
This is clearly a = general problem.
NETCONF is not the first protocol WG that = wants to push lots of data around.
I think IPFIX spent a = lot of time on transport issues, maybe other WGs as well.
No need to reinvent the wheel, right?
 
NETCONF is OK for this work as long as = early cross-area reviews are done.
 
<ALEX> Sounds = reasonable to me = </ALEX>

likewise.   Hopefully the transport folk = can point the authors in the right direction.  As Andy says - we = want to avoid reinventing the wheel.

- There are actually two aspects in the draft.  One = concerns the UDP transport option that we are discussion here.  The = other aspect concerns the fact that can have multiple message = originators, such as multiple line cards each with its own stream but = managed via one subscription.   This is what is currently = outlined in section 3.  Maybe this is something that should be = broken out into a separate draft, as potentially applicable to other = transports, but that aspect arguably fits much better with netconf.

 
I agree YANG = Push/NETCONF WG needs to define how a subscription can be = transported.
This includes 1 subscription with = multiple receivers or multiple source addresses.
Things get complicated if there are both on 1 subscription. = (That's 1 reason why I prefer
to have only 1 = receiver per subscription + a shorthand way to config duplicate = subscriptions).
 
<ALEX> Actually, this here is a different case =E2=80=93 = not concerning receivers =E2=80=93 we will have multiple senders per = subscription=E2=80=A6 </ALEX>


right - =E2=80=9Cmultiple source addresses=E2=80=9D as = Andy stated?

Giles

 
--- Alex
 
Andy
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Netconf = [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Giles Heron
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 4:35 AM
To: = Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00

Hi = Tianran,

even if you=E2=80=99re adapting = UDP for publication of YANG-modelled data (note you=E2=80=99re NOT = adapting it for publication or NETCONF/RESTCONF) I suspect you can still = build upon work others have done on reliable UDP mechanisms etc.  =   Even RTP does most of what you want (as it has sequence numbers, = timestamps, sender IDs, support for different payload encodings etc.) - = through granted it is targeted at a very different application space.

and if you do persist in trying to define your = own transport then it might be worth thinking about whether you need a = length field, whether reliability and authentication are per-stream = (rather than per-packet as currently defined) and so on...

Giles

> On 24 = Aug 2017, at 06:45, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> = wrote:
>
> Hi Giles,
>
> I just updated the draft submission, = so as to answer your question. Please see:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-ch= annel/
>
> I tried to make it a = complete work with both ps and solution. I also separate the = subscription model from this document. As things progressed, now maybe a = separate ps is not necessary to be published as a support documents.
>
> We are not going to define a general = purpose transport, but to adapt UDP for publication of NETCONF/RESTCONF. = It's highly related to YANG Push work.
> The = publication channel behavior will highly depend on the = configuration/subscription.
> So I feel NETCONF is the = right place to do this extension.
> And I believe the = show-hands on the NETCONF meeting showed this work is important and can = be done in NETCONF.
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
>> -----Original = Message-----
>> From: Giles Heron [mailto:giles.heron@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:57 PM
>> To: Tianran Zhou
>> Cc: netconf@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>
>> Hi Tianran,
>>
>> sure - so maybe it=E2=80=99d = be better to split this into 2 drafts (one for
>> = the problem statement and one for the solution)?  That way you = can
>> progress those separately.
>>
>> Re UDP vs TCP my point was = more that it seems strange to define your
>> own = transport in a NETCONF draft.  Adding reliability to UDP is a
>> solved problem (many times over) so you should be = able to pick one of the existing solutions.
>>
>> Giles
>>
>>> On 23 Aug 2017, at 09:28, Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com> = wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi = Giles,
>>>
>>> Thank you = very much for your review and comments.
>>> This = version we were going to state the problem, raise possible
>>> issues
>> that may need to = solve, and attract WG interests. So there are some
>> = TBDs in the detailed solution part.
>>> We hope = the working group can adopt this work, and we can work on
>>> the
>> solution together = with the community contributions.
>>> Since last = meeting, we keep moving forward, and are working on the
>>> new
>> revision = internally.
>>> In line, please see my reply.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tianran
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Giles
>>>> Heron
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 6:39 PM
>>>> To: netconf@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>
>>>> There seem to = be a few issues with this draft:
>>>>
>>>> 1) it suggests a 32 bit field for device ID = and then suggests generating
>>>> it from the = MAC address.  48 into 32 doesn=E2=80=99t go.   Perhaps an = EUI-64 makes
>>>> more sense?  Or do you = even need this given that UDP packets tend
>>>> = to have source IP addresses?
>>>
>>> [ztr] We were to use the device ID to indicate = the source of the data.
>> Just as you suggested, = the UDP session identifier can be used. So in
>> the = new version, we are going to use an message generator id for the
>> device level and plus the src-dst IP as well as port = number.
>>>
>>>> Or are = you thinking in terms of NAT?
>>> [ztr] The NAT = issue is a good catch, which we did not think about.
>>> We
>> assumed the device = management port/interface and the collector are in
>> = the same private network. Do you have any use case that the NAT will
>> be used when collecting data?
>>>
>>>> Or of = correlating
>>>> notifications from different = line-cards on the same system that may
>>>> = have different source IP addresses?
>>> [ztr] We = suggest all the line cards on the same system use the same
>>> source
>> IP address. But = the case you mentioned may happen. In this case, I
>> = think the collector/subscriber may have the mapping from the source IP = to device.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) the timestamp has 32 bits each of seconds = and microseconds and
>>>> says those are as = per RFC3339.  =46rom my reading of RFC3339 it
>>>> encodes dates/times as strings.
>>> [ztr] Yes, it is not a suitable reference. We = meant to say the
>>> encoding
>> will support the expression in RFC3339. But it seems = the timestamp on
>> message generation is not so = important to be accurate. So we tend to modify to:
>>>    "The Notification-Time, is the time = at which the message leaves the
>>>    =  exporter, expressed in seconds since the UNIX epoch of 1 = January
>>>     1970 at 00:00 UTC, = encoded as an unsigned 32-bit integer."
>>>
>>>> 3) building your own reliability mechanism = on top of UDP seems like
>>>> a strange = choice.  Why not just use TCP if you want reliable delivery?
>>>> Or re-use existing work on adding = reliability to UDP if you see
>>>> issues with = TCP? (in which case explain how reliability based on
>>>> UDP
>> is better than = TCP).
>>> [ztr] We are not going to provide the = full reliability mechanism for UDP.
>> We just want = to provide necessary support (sequence number) from the
>> transport. Then the application can decide the = reaction to the packet
>> loss/ reordering or so.
>>> In addition, I think the reliability may also = have different levels.
>>> The
>> application may not care about any packet loss, or = may need to record
>> the packet loss but not need = retransmission, or need retransmission
>> but no = ordering requirement from transport,... Simply using TCP seems
>> not a good option.
>>>
>>>> 4) big chunks of the draft are left TBD = (e.g. selecting encodings, adding
>>>> = authentication/encryption options).    Again there may be work = you can
>> reuse
>>>> = there rather than defining your own.
>>> [ztr] = Yes, based on the discussion in the community, the coming
>>> update
>> will focus on the = necessary parts. For example, the subscription
>> = model may move to a separate document. And we are not going to create
>> authentication algorithms, but to suggest algorithms = and how to
>> truncate to fit in the header field. = We will reuse existing work as much as possible.
>>>
>>>> sections 1 - 3 = are generally ok - but don=E2=80=99t really say anything we
>>>> didn=E2=80=99t know already...
>>>>
>>>> Giles
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 Aug = 2017, at 02:46, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> = Yes/Support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Zhenbin(Robin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<= /span>: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Watsen
>>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9= =97=B4: 2017=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8822=E6=97=A5 6:04
>>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] WG adoption poll
>>>>> = draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00
>>>>>
>>>>> = All,
>>>>>
>>>>>= This is start of a two-week poll on making the following draft a
>>>>> NETCONF
>>>> = working group document:
>>>>>
>>>>> draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel-00 = [1]
>>>>>
>>>>> = Please send email to the list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do
>>>>> not
>>>> = support".  If indicating no, please state your reservations with
>>>> the document.  If yes, please also feel = free to provide comments
>>>> you'd like to = see addressed once the document is a WG document.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zheng-netconf-udp-pub-channel= -00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank = you,
>>>>> Kent (and Mahesh)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>>>> = _______________________________________________
>>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>>>>
>>>> = _______________________________________________
>>>> Netconf mailing list
>>>> Netconf@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
>

_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf
_______________________________________________
Netconf mailing list
Netconf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf

= --Apple-Mail=_77613031-21B5-4EBB-BA50-B49B0C088A4E-- From nobody Fri Aug 25 10:36:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C716D1329C4 for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:36:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fqYiOT4DxxLJ for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4gTmV0Y29uZiBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86TmV0Y29uZkBpZXRm Lm9yZz4NCj4gPiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRj b25mDQo+ID4gPiA+DQo+ID4gPg0KPiA+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+IE5ldGNvbmYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gPiBOZXRj b25mQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpOZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ID4gPg0KPiA+IDwNCj4gPiBfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IE5ldGNvbmYg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0Y29uZg0K From nobody Fri Aug 25 13:50:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8524F13219F for ; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 13:50:47 -0700 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<20170825.091144.2268111396098840213.mbj@tail-f.com> <02b3a0fc71af43499925be286cebce80@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <02b3a0fc71af43499925be286cebce80@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.48.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090206.59A08DA1.0012, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.191, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 60251bf2d512b1908c1e5dccc409181f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: 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<2DA63A9D60033948910DE372CC27732B@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: vmware.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Aug 2017 23:53:15.6046 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: b39138ca-3cee-4b4a-a4d6-cd83d9dd62f0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR0501MB1349 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2017 23:53:21 -0000 SGksDQoNCkkgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgYWRvcHRpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCg0KVGhhbmtz LA0KDQpBbGJlcnRvDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQogICAgRnJvbTogTmV0 Y29uZiBbbWFpbHRvOm5ldGNvbmYtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEtlbnQg 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiA+ID4gTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4gPiA+ID4gTmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZzxtYWlsdG86TmV0Y29uZkBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4g PiA+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRjb25mDQo+ID4g PiA+DQo+ID4gPiA8DQo+ID4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+ID4gTmV0Y29uZiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiA+IE5ldGNvbmZAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0Y29u Zg0K From nobody Mon Aug 28 01:27:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBF9132C28 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:27:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ytGFtn0rwpS7 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80404132025 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CD351AE02C9; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:27:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:25:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170828.102536.1578506217804152036.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: evoit@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org, andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F8BF6@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <20170825.091144.2268111396098840213.mbj@tail-f.com> <02b3a0fc71af43499925be286cebce80@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F8BF6@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> 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Received: from XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (xch-rtp-015.cisco.com [64.101.220.155]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7SEVQP6002455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:31:27 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:31:26 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com ([64.101.220.153]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:31:26 -0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Balazs Lengyel CC: "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Netconf] draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages Thread-Index: AQHS/LRWvwDqaSbkSUW9bbtq0UqH6KJaDECQgEALQrA= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:31:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <26cf356e41884742bd64aca47d42061d@XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com> <463efabb-63bf-8717-c529-3936dc22c31b@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_acb5cebe202a4da48c668dda5ece159eXCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:31:34 -0000 --_000_acb5cebe202a4da48c668dda5ece159eXCHRTP013ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Balazs, Closing on the previous thread, do you want to add something to draft-voit-= netconf-notification-messages for bundled notifications on your time point?= Perhaps something like: "if a record time is not provided within any part= icular bundled record, the receiving system must be able to assume that the= notification time from the bundle may be safely copied into a missing reco= rd time". Eric -----Original Message----- From: Eric Voit, July 20, 2017 6:16 PM Hi Balazs, There are two cases here: (1) Non-bundled (2) bundled In the non-bundled case: Would you agree that either event-time or notification-time must be sent? = If yes, then in the descriptions, we can define that at least one must be i= ncluded. Note: For publishers which don't wish to differentiate between th= e two times, they should be forced to choose at least one. Otherwise a rec= eiver will need to guess to normalize information with publishers that can.= And it would seem far better for a publisher to make an assertion by choo= sing to populate one of those two fields rather than the receiver making a = guess. In the bundled case, it is hard for me to see how a record-time should not = be included. If forced, perhaps we could make it optional in the notificat= ion. But then we should define that it must be viable for the receiver to = copy/map the notification-time into each record's the event time. Thoughts? Eric *************** Parallel thread... > From: Balazs Lengyel, July 20, 2017 10:33 AM > > Hello, > > Many systems don't differentiate between notification time and record-tim= e. > Don't make it mandatory to have record-time in each change record. > regards Balazs > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From: Eric Voit, July 18, 2017 4:30 PM Hi Balazs, Glad you like the proposal. Thoughts in-line... From: Balazs Lengyel, July 14, 2017 11:17 AM Hello, I very much like this draft. Some comments: We would need to specify for some info bits that they are mandatory. I woul= d vote for making subscription-id, I have no problem with making the subscription-id leaf-list have a m= in-elements of 1. Existing RFC-5277 developers have suggested that subscri= ption-id isn't necessary. I am good either way. notification-if and I don't have strong feelings on this, but some implementations might= not want to generate and track a notification-id. record-time mandatory, this is mandatory now. the rest optional. previous-notification-id is only useful if you handle it separately for eac= h subscription. Otherwise due to filtering messages might be discarded by t= he server itself. Please state that this needs to be handled per subscripti= on. As several subscriptions can be encapsulated, I believe it should be= separate for each message-generator-id. Let's talk about this more, as th= is intersects what to do about multiple line-cards reporting on the same su= bscription. Thanks, Eric regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com --_000_acb5cebe202a4da48c668dda5ece159eXCHRTP013ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Balazs,

 

Closing on the previous thread, do yo= u want to add something to draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages for bun= dled notifications on your time point?  Perhaps something like: “if a record time is not provided within any particu= lar bundled record, the receiving system must be able to assume that the no= tification time from the bundle may be safely copied into a missing record = time”.


Eric

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Voit, July 20, 2017 6:16 PM

Hi Balazs,

 

There are two cases here:

(1) Non-bundled

(2) bundled

 

In the non-bundled case:

Would you agree that either event-time or notific= ation-time must be sent?  If yes, then in the descriptions, we can def= ine that at least one must be included.  Note: For publishers which do= n't wish to differentiate between the two times, they should be forced to choose at least one.  Otherwise a receiver w= ill need to guess to normalize information with publishers that can.  = And it would seem far better for a publisher to make an assertion by choosi= ng to populate one of those two fields rather than the receiver making a guess. 

 

In the bundled case, it is hard for me to see how= a record-time should not be included.  If forced, perhaps we could ma= ke it optional in the notification.  But then we should define that it= must be viable for the receiver to copy/map the notification-time into each record's the event time.

 

Thoughts?

Eric

 

 

***************<= /p>

Parallel thread…

 

> From: Balazs Lengyel, July 20, 2017 10:33 AM=

>

> Hello,

>

> Many systems don't differentiate between not= ification time and record-time.

> Don't make it mandatory to have record-time = in each change record.

> regards Balazs

>

> --

> Balazs Lengyel     =             &nb= sp;     Ericsson Hungary Ltd.

> Senior Specialist

> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909   = ;           email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericss= on.com

 

 

From: Eric Voit, July 18, 2017 4:30 PM

Hi Balazs,

 

Glad you like the proposal.  Tho= ughts in-line…

 

 

= From: Balazs Lengyel, July 14, 2017 11:17 AM

Hello,

I very much like this draft. Some comments:

We would need to specify for some info bits that they are mandatory. I w= ould vote for making subscription-id,

<eric> I have no problem with making the subscripti= on-id leaf-list have a min-elements of 1.  Existing RFC-5277 developer= s have suggested that subscription-id isn’t necessary. I am good either way.

notification-if and

<eric> I don’t have strong feelings on this, = but some implementations might not want to generate and track a notificatio= n-id.

record-time mandatory, <= /p>

<eric> this is mandatory now.

the rest optional.

previous-notification-id is only useful if you handle it separately for = each subscription. Otherwise due to filtering messages might be discarded b= y the server itself. Please state that this needs to be handled per subscri= ption.

<eric> As several subscriptions can be encapsulated= , I believe it should be separate for each message-generator-id.  Let&= #8217;s talk about this more, as this intersects what to do about multiple line-cards reporting on the same subscription.<= /p>

Thanks,
Eric

regards Balazs

 



-- 
Balazs Lengyel         &n=
bsp;            =
; Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909       &=
nbsp;      email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
--_000_acb5cebe202a4da48c668dda5ece159eXCHRTP013ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Aug 28 10:22:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E674132C48 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JGZOlL6cDvGI for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x234.google.com (mail-wm0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A78071326EC for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x234.google.com with SMTP id y71so7257705wmd.0 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=u4sdltDKMxVBzVd1dO/dxe1PL4e7XpU43C+aSCdscHw=; b=bfq6QlPDYrjkgcAIob7gsh+WYafk/40TzaL659IAvWpq+Sib+Bue+gFvWBmSPiO49V a+e3yfO5yRHSkr/CA16M9oCrHVoVFxPYAFJl4uI12XXvi7oisHOcr0uo/e9bRs6s/zEe LPs+Pbq02MTHxjnbXSF80vE/FyuNiNACqOVO2OLnsUbwhcrxDIsKa4igNOI+5J3nHD9F E2wNdFN30QZGQjde/wfOc9YXbkKJXogKMDSEkAisI81iw/OyyD6CcJpkiOoMu9vguvF/ QrUxtsXXTt8WEkzcqNESnIOwZjANvqEskuKHSodrDVgz1wQherosxExBvf2cXLE6UvLK 3VYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=u4sdltDKMxVBzVd1dO/dxe1PL4e7XpU43C+aSCdscHw=; b=k6Fya0v1b06vJl0/dkjzOHkylliUgHsZfqcQMFyoeREZvnkyJWFrt7egSf9T7rYYlK qVsPpkROzdLU/dvIOpKmSPtyNfbSLB0n0I5PY+5MKB78CtEsJgwHg43whQtYrtbFqW32 90qYR1a0xGH6Qp2MYAwAcnH7Ha/pwanVS364toGcpSK4C4s+9Q1kYRLVdXejQqJBb4xU nGXjvvAUH9F0cHq8wHvq0AJ/XLVbd97VwmL2l3qo0iyDyk+q0vEtWB3OfSIMLQdJ7Xkb dS9yQx50rFv2nH5onYlVH1B+Fizt4KWjEufuOhM3Yn1FcYoABFFb6QVznkfKHE2OcVaI tGOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hCtO7RtgXbL7nH0Lj3+agw9v0OE374tw5Cgl2AX9SsbAXhuexo 9f3nnV74//2HieyvYHfXXVllVYMxuGkm X-Received: by 10.28.159.141 with SMTP id i135mr746272wme.153.1503940953017; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:22:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: internet-drafts@ietf.org Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org, Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144e7f644bd180557d38a2b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 17:22:37 -0000 --001a1144e7f644bd180557d38a2b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Just a few comments on this short draft: - terminology: there is no terminology section for new terms or RD terms. None of the official terms in RD are used. Conformance: A RESTCONF server identifies that it supports NMDA both by supporting the datastore, as well as by supporting at least revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-library" module, as specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis]. Why can't a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revision, and just include the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited? I suggest a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of NMDA conformance. Note the term datastore not used in any official terminology. The first sentence is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the operational datastore. There is no suitable definition of the operational datastore given. The text needs to say that the operational datastore is identified by resource specification {+restconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational The draft says "For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and never defines "the" operational datastore. (i.e., there is only one official operational datastore). The protocol operations section could provide more details. The handling of defaults is made extra vague by the 3rd bullet. What does apply if not this paragraph about MAY include defaults? The with-origin query parameter and required server behavior are poorly defined. Is this query parameter mandatory to implement? How does a client know it can be used? The draft completely ignores the fact that RESTCONF does not support datastores or datastore locking, or sessions, or datastore lock recovery. Please provide details about how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific datastores. There are no examples at all in the draft, which would help since the terse text is not that clear. Andy On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA > Authors : Martin Bjorklund > Juergen Schoenwaelder > Phil Shafer > Kent Watsen > Robert Wilton > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt > Pages : 5 > Date : 2017-08-24 > > Abstract: > This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support the > Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in > [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores]. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > --001a1144e7f644bd180557d38a2b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Just a few comments on this short d= raft:

- terminology: there is no terminology secti= on for new terms or RD terms.
None of the official terms in RD ar= e used.

Conformance:
   A RESTCONF server=
 identifies that it supports NMDA both by supporting
   the <operational> datastore, as well as by supporting at least
   revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-library" modu=
le, as
   specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis].

Why can'= t a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revision,
and just in= clude the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited?
I suggest = a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of NMDA conformance= .

Note the term <operational> datastore not = used in any official terminology.

The first senten= ce is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the operational datastore.=

There is no suitable definition of the operationa= l datastore given.
The text needs to say that the operational dat= astore is identified by resource specification

{+r= estconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational
The draft says "= For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and never defines "the&qu= ot; operational datastore.
(i.e., there is only one official operational= datastore).

The protocol operations section could= provide more details.
The handling of defaults is made extra vag= ue by the 3rd bullet.
What does apply if not this paragraph about= MAY include defaults?

The with-origin query param= eter and required server behavior are poorly defined.
Is this que= ry parameter mandatory to implement?=C2=A0 How does a client know it can be= used?

The draft completely ignores the fact that = RESTCONF does not support datastores
or datastore locking, or ses= sions, or datastore lock recovery.=C2=A0 Please provide details about
=
how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific d= atastores.

There are no examples at all in the dra= ft, which would help since the terse text
is not that clear.


Andy



On Thu, Au= g 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wr= ote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Mart= in Bjorklund
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juergen Schoenwaelder
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Phil Shafer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Watsen
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Robert Wilton
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 5
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-08-24

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support t= he
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores].


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00
https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= /a>
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

--001a1144e7f644bd180557d38a2b-- From nobody Mon Aug 28 14:59:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57FA2120721 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:59:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OZI3uaR13t_u for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2EC6132A9B 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[209.85.217.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l141sm434339vke.31.2017.08.28.20.26.56 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-f169.google.com with SMTP id j46so6857303uag.5 for ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.176.95.137 with SMTP id b9mr1888071uaj.148.1503977216551; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Douglas Hubler Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:26:46 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Netconf Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08209aacbe385f0557dbfbdb" Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Industry scope of RESTCONF and YANG X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:27:00 -0000 --089e08209aacbe385f0557dbfbdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'll be talking at a local conference in the Boston area in few weeks about how RESTCONF and YANG can be used for general purpose infrastructure management with a prime example being microservices. I'll be talking to infrastructure operators, developers and folks in between. I'm hoping to increase the awareness of RESTCONF and YANG outside the networking space. Does anyone else have experience using these specs outside networking or have opinions on the idea? I'm soliciting advice and material from members of this list to help build a compelling 10min. presentation. About me: I'm a software developer that has been working on c2stack, an open source implementation of RESTCONF and YANG for Go developers for microservices and IoT. --089e08209aacbe385f0557dbfbdb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll be talking at a local conference in the Bost= on area in few weeks about how RESTCONF and YANG can be used for general pu= rpose infrastructure management with a prime example being microservices.= =C2=A0 I'll be talking to infrastructure operators, developers and folk= s in between.=C2=A0 I'm hoping to increase the awareness of RESTCONF an= d YANG outside the networking space.=C2=A0 Does anyone else have experience= using these specs outside networking or have opinions on the idea?=C2=A0 I= 'm soliciting advice and material from members of this list to help bui= ld a compelling 10min. presentation.

About me:= I'm a software developer that has been working on c2stack, an open sou= rce implementation of RESTCONF and YANG for Go developers for microservices= and IoT.

--089e08209aacbe385f0557dbfbdb-- From nobody Tue Aug 29 03:19:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7034D1321B7 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:18:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jC2IXFh2B0FM for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6894D1243F6 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 03:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61F391AE00A0; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:18:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 12:17:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170829.121726.2236819948251234206.mbj@tail-f.com> To: alexander.clemm@huawei.com Cc: evoit@cisco.com, netconf@ietf.org, andy@yumaworks.com, kwatsen@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F9261@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> References: <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F8BF6@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> <20170828.102536.1578506217804152036.mbj@tail-f.com> <644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0E0F9261@SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01 X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 10:18:59 -0000 QWxleGFuZGVyIENsZW1tIDxhbGV4YW5kZXIuY2xlbW1AaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhp IE1hcnRpbg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIHJlc3BvbnNlIC0gcmVwbGllcyBpbmxp bmUsIDxBTEVYPg0KPiANCj4gLS0tIEFsZXgNCj4gDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQo+IEZyb206IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgW21haWx0bzptYmpAdGFpbC1mLmNvbV0gDQo+ IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgQXVndXN0IDI4LCAyMDE3IDE6MjYgQU0NCj4gVG86IEFsZXhhbmRlciBD bGVtbSA8YWxleGFuZGVyLmNsZW1tQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQo+IENjOiBldm9pdEBjaXNjby5jb207 IG5ldGNvbmZAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGFuZHlAeXVtYXdvcmtzLmNvbTsga3dhdHNlbkBqdW5pcGVyLm5l dA0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW05ldGNvbmZdIFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgZHJhZnQtdm9pdC1u ZXRjb25mLW5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbi1tZXNzYWdlcy0wMQ0KPiANCj4gSGksDQo+IA0KPiBBbGV4YW5k ZXIgQ2xlbW0gPGFsZXhhbmRlci5jbGVtbUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBIaSBNYXJ0 aW4sIEVyaWMsIGFsbCwNCj4gPiANCj4gPiBGaXJzdCwgSSB0aGluayB3ZSBhcmUgYWxsIGluIGFn 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-0400 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "alexander.clemm@huawei.com" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "andy@yumaworks.com" , "kwatsen@juniper.net" Thread-Topic: Data Plane notifications within subscribed notifications (was RE: [Netconf] WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01) Thread-Index: AdMhGU3lSrekky5zQJaTwZZ2v3oZyw== Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 22:51:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.56.228] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_f2351598fe7d48198dbe17c36c416a91XCHRTP013ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] Data Plane notifications within subscribed notifications (was RE: WG adoption poll draft-voit-netconf-notification-messages-01) X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 22:51:45 -0000 --_002_f2351598fe7d48198dbe17c36c416a91XCHRTP013ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgTWFydGluLA0KDQpNb3ZpbmcgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gdG8gYSBuZXcgdGhyZWFkIHNpbmNl IGFzIGl0IG1vc3RseSBkZWFscyB3aXRoIFEmQSByZWxhdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBzdWJzY3JpYmVkLW5v dGlmaWNhdGlvbnMgZHJhZnQuLi4NCg0KSXQgaXMgd29ydGggbG9va2luZyBiYWNrIGF0IGhvdyB0 aGUgc2V0IG9mIHdvcmsgaGVyZSBpbiBORVRDT05GIHByb2dyZXNzZWQuLi4gIA0KKDEpIFRoZSBv cmlnaW5hbCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgd2VyZSBmb3IgeWFuZy1wdXNoLi4uDQooMikgLi53aGljaCB0 aGUgV0cgcmVxdWVzdGVkIGJlIGdlbmVyYWxpemVkIHRvIGNvdmVyIHRoZSA1Mjc3IGV2ZW50LW5v dGlmaWNhdGlvbiBjb250cm9sIHBsYW5lICAgDQooMykgICAuLndoaWNoIHRoZW4gbmVlZGVkIHRv IGNvdmVyIHRoZSBldmVudC1ub3RpZmljYXRpb24gZGF0YSBwbGFuZSAoZm9yIDUyNzcgb2Jzb2xl c2NlbmNlKQ0KKDQpICAgICAuLndoaWNoIHRoZW4gbmVlZGVkIGFuIHVwZGF0ZSB0byA3OTUwICYg 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X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150405101041.21577.559469245253580419@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 16:56:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 23:56:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : Zero Touch Provisioning for NETCONF or RESTCONF based Management Authors : Kent Watsen Mikael Abrahamsson Ian Farrer Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16.txt Pages : 65 Date : 2017-08-29 Abstract: This draft presents a secure technique for establishing a NETCONF or RESTCONF connection between a newly deployed device, configured with just its preconfigured initial state (e.g., factory default settings), and its deployment specific network management system (NMS). Editorial Note (To be removed by RFC Editor) This draft contains many placeholder values that need to be replaced with finalized values at the time of publication. This note summarizes all of the substitutions that are needed. Please note that no other RFC Editor instructions are specified anywhere else in this document. Artwork in the IANA Considerations section contains placeholder values for DHCP options pending IANA assignment. Please apply the following replacements: o "OPTION_V4_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv4 Zero Touch Option" option o "OPTION_V6_ZEROTOUCH_REDIRECT" --> the option code assigned for the "DHCPv6 Zero Touch Option" option Artwork in this document contains shorthand references to drafts in progress. Please apply the following replacements: o "XXXX" --> the assigned RFC value for this draft Artwork in this document contains placeholder values for the date of publication of this draft. Please apply the following replacement: o "2017-08-29" --> the publication date of this draft Please update the following references to reflect their final RFC assignments: o I-D.ieft-netconf-netconf-client-server The following one Appendix section is to be removed prior to publication: o Appendix A. Change Log The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Aug 29 17:16:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02AA3132D9B for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:16:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sWuo4cJLZDOp for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam03on0136.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.40.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 838A7132113 for ; 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Aug 2017 00:16:06.4502 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1297 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 00:16:11 -0000 SGV5IEZvbGtzLA0KDQpUaGlzIHVwZGF0ZSBhZGRyZXNzZXMgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMg dGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gcmVjZWl2ZWQgdG8gZGF0ZS4gIFBsZWFzZSByZXZpZXcgdGhlIGNoYW5n ZSBsb2cgZm9yIGRldGFpbHM6ICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1uZXRjb25mLXplcm90b3VjaC0xNiNhcHBlbmRpeC1CLjE3Lg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgcG9zdGVkIGNv bW1lbnRzIGJlZm9yZSwgcGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyB0byBzZWUgaWYgYWxsIHlvdXIgaXNzdWVzIGhh dmUgYmVlbiBhZGRyZXNzZWQuICBJZiB5b3UndmUgYmVlbiBvdXQgb24gUFRPIGZvciBhIHdoaWxl IGFuZCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gd2FpdGluZyBmb3IgYSBnb29kIHZlcnNpb24gdG8gcmV2aWV3LCBiZWZv cmUgYW5vdGhlci9maW5hbCBMQyBiZWdpbnMsIHRoaXMgaXMgaXQuDQoNClJlZ2FyZGluZyB3aGF0 J3MgbGVmdCwgdGhlIGlzc3VlcyBhcmU6DQogLSBzdXBwb3J0aW5nIHdoaXRlIGJveGVzIChyYWlz ZWQgYnkgRGVhbiBhbmQgUmFkZWspICANCiAtIHByaXZhY3kgaXNzdWUgd2hlbiBzZW5kaW5nIFVS TCB0byBhbiB1bnRydXN0ZWQgc2VydmVyIChyYWlzZWQgYnkgS2VudCkNCiAtIHBvdGVudGlhbCBm dXJ0aGVyIHRpZ2h0ZW5pbmcgb2YgdGV4dCwgb3IgaXMgaXQgZW5vdWdoIG5vdz8gKHJhaXNlZCBi eSBSb2IpDQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2VudCAgLy8gY29udHJpYnV0b3INCg0KDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Aug 30 11:29:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B9E13234B; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8xaFTzZ8mX-w; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD966132386; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-40-225.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.40.225]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A0251AE012C; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:29:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:31:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170830.203155.1351414372384771115.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: internet-drafts@ietf.org, netconf@ietf.org, i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:29:48 -0000 Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Just a few comments on this short draft: > > - terminology: there is no terminology section for new terms or RD terms. > None of the official terms in RD are used. Thanks, I'll fix this. > Conformance: > > A RESTCONF server identifies that it supports NMDA both by supporting > the datastore, as well as by supporting at least > revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-library" module, as > specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis]. > > > Why can't a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revision, > and just include the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited? No, this is probably ok. But the text specifies what a NMDA-compliant server would do, and it certainly supports . > I suggest a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of NMDA > conformance. But NMDA conformance really just means that the new version of yang-library is implemented, and that "operational" is listed as a datastore in the library. So I'm not sure what an additional capability would achieve. This said, if people think it would be useful for clarity that would be fine with me. > Note the term datastore not used in any official terminology. I'll fix the terminology. > The first sentence is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the > operational datastore. We can add a very explicit sentence: An NMDA-compliant server MUST support the operational state datastore. > There is no suitable definition of the operational datastore given. I'll make sure we import the correct term from the nmda draft, and use the term properly. > The text needs to say that the operational datastore is identified by > resource specification > > {+restconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational > > > The draft says "For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and never defines > "the" operational datastore. > (i.e., there is only one official operational datastore). Ok. I think we must state that the identity MUST be derived from ietf-datastore (and provide a reference). > The protocol operations section could provide more details. > The handling of defaults is made extra vague by the 3rd bullet. > What does apply if not this paragraph about MAY include defaults? Ok, I'll expand the text. It really means that all values are always returned from , even if a node happens to have a default statement in the YANG module, and this default value is being used by the server. > The with-origin query parameter and required server behavior are poorly > defined. > Is this query parameter mandatory to implement? How does a client know it > can be used? We should probably define a capability for "origin" support, just like we propose is done for NETCONF. > The draft completely ignores the fact that RESTCONF does not support > datastores > or datastore locking, or sessions, or datastore lock recovery. Please > provide details about > how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific > datastores. Are you looking for something like the text in 1.4 in 8040? > There are no examples at all in the draft, which would help since the terse > text > is not that clear. Ok, I'll add some examples. Thanks for these comments! /martin > > > Andy > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA > > Authors : Martin Bjorklund > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Phil Shafer > > Kent Watsen > > Robert Wilton > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt > > Pages : 5 > > Date : 2017-08-24 > > > > Abstract: > > This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support the > > Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in > > [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores]. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > From nobody Wed Aug 30 11:33:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D67D132386 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C_BVs_02tp0M for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DA313234B for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-40-225.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.40.225]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A7F0A1AE012C; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:33:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:35:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170830.203551.260426558235528753.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> Archived-At: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:33:43 -0000 [Fixed address line, please reply to this email instead of the previous one!] Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Just a few comments on this short draft: > > - terminology: there is no terminology section for new terms or RD terms. > None of the official terms in RD are used. Thanks, I'll fix this. > Conformance: > > A RESTCONF server identifies that it supports NMDA both by supporting > the datastore, as well as by supporting at least > revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-library" module, as > specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis]. > > > Why can't a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revision, > and just include the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited? No, this is probably ok. But the text specifies what a NMDA-compliant server would do, and it certainly supports . > I suggest a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of NMDA > conformance. But NMDA conformance really just means that the new version of yang-library is implemented, and that "operational" is listed as a datastore in the library. So I'm not sure what an additional capability would achieve. This said, if people think it would be useful for clarity that would be fine with me. > Note the term datastore not used in any official terminology. I'll fix the terminology. > The first sentence is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the > operational datastore. We can add a very explicit sentence: An NMDA-compliant server MUST support the operational state datastore. > There is no suitable definition of the operational datastore given. I'll make sure we import the correct term from the nmda draft, and use the term properly. > The text needs to say that the operational datastore is identified by > resource specification > > {+restconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational > > > The draft says "For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and never defines > "the" operational datastore. > (i.e., there is only one official operational datastore). Ok. I think we must state that the identity MUST be derived from ietf-datastore (and provide a reference). > The protocol operations section could provide more details. > The handling of defaults is made extra vague by the 3rd bullet. > What does apply if not this paragraph about MAY include defaults? Ok, I'll expand the text. It really means that all values are always returned from , even if a node happens to have a default statement in the YANG module, and this default value is being used by the server. > The with-origin query parameter and required server behavior are poorly > defined. > Is this query parameter mandatory to implement? How does a client know it > can be used? We should probably define a capability for "origin" support, just like we propose is done for NETCONF. > The draft completely ignores the fact that RESTCONF does not support > datastores > or datastore locking, or sessions, or datastore lock recovery. Please > provide details about > how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific > datastores. Are you looking for something like the text in 1.4 in 8040? > There are no examples at all in the draft, which would help since the terse > text > is not that clear. Ok, I'll add some examples. Thanks for these comments! /martin > > > Andy > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA > > Authors : Martin Bjorklund > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Phil Shafer > > Kent Watsen > > Robert Wilton > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt > > Pages : 5 > > Date : 2017-08-24 > > > > Abstract: > > This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support the > > Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in > > [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores]. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > _______________________________________________ Netconf mailing list Netconf@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Wed Aug 30 11:44:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B4313292B for ; 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Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.171.84 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170830.203155.1351414372384771115.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <150360906530.15093.2732359776305672509@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170830.203155.1351414372384771115.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:44:35 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: internet-drafts@ietf.org, Netconf , i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146d9505e6a8c0557fceb84" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:44:40 -0000 --001a1146d9505e6a8c0557fceb84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Just a few comments on this short draft: > > > > - terminology: there is no terminology section for new terms or RD terms. > > None of the official terms in RD are used. > > Thanks, I'll fix this. > > > Conformance: > > > > A RESTCONF server identifies that it supports NMDA both by supporting > > the datastore, as well as by supporting at least > > revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-library" module, as > > specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis]. > > > > > > Why can't a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revision, > > and just include the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited? > > No, this is probably ok. But the text specifies what a NMDA-compliant > server would do, and it certainly supports . > > > I suggest a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of NMDA > > conformance. > > But NMDA conformance really just means that the new version of > yang-library is implemented, and that "operational" is listed as a > datastore in the library. So I'm not sure what an additional > capability would achieve. This said, if people think it would be > useful for clarity that would be fine with me. > Balazs brought up this issue as well. There are 2 separate transitions and no reason to require both or none. 1) use instead of to retrieve config=false nodes 2) provide the operational values of config=true nodes The capability URI indicates both are supported. Without the capability URI, the server can still provide feature (1) > > > Note the term datastore not used in any official > terminology. > > I'll fix the terminology. > > > The first sentence is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the > > operational datastore. > > We can add a very explicit sentence: > > An NMDA-compliant server MUST support the operational state > datastore. > > OK > > There is no suitable definition of the operational datastore given. > > I'll make sure we import the correct term from the nmda draft, and use > the term properly. > > > The text needs to say that the operational datastore is identified by > > resource specification > > > > {+restconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational > > > > > > The draft says "For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and never defines > > "the" operational datastore. > > (i.e., there is only one official operational datastore). > > Ok. I think we must state that the identity MUST be derived from > ietf-datastore (and provide a reference). > > > The protocol operations section could provide more details. > > The handling of defaults is made extra vague by the 3rd bullet. > > What does apply if not this paragraph about MAY include defaults? > > Ok, I'll expand the text. It really means that all values are always > returned from , even if a node happens to have a default > statement in the YANG module, and this default value is being used by > the server. > OK -- then you will say the "with-defaults" query parameter is ignored? causes an error if used? something else? The draft should clearly state the RESTCONF query parameters that apply to the new /ds resource, and if they are different in any way. > > > The with-origin query parameter and required server behavior are poorly > > defined. > > Is this query parameter mandatory to implement? How does a client know > it > > can be used? > > We should probably define a capability for "origin" support, just like > we propose is done for NETCONF. > > OK > > The draft completely ignores the fact that RESTCONF does not support > > datastores > > or datastore locking, or sessions, or datastore lock recovery. Please > > provide details about > > how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific > > datastores. > > Are you looking for something like the text in 1.4 in 8040? > Well it would be a start to say if this applies. It is no different than using /restconf/operations/ I guess. > > There are no examples at all in the draft, which would help since the > terse > > text > > is not that clear. > > Ok, I'll add some examples. > > > Thanks for these comments! > > > > /martin > > > Andy > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, wrote: > > > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > > directories. > > > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > > > > > Title : RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA > > > Authors : Martin Bjorklund > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > Phil Shafer > > > Kent Watsen > > > Robert Wilton > > > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt > > > Pages : 5 > > > Date : 2017-08-24 > > > > > > Abstract: > > > This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to support the > > > Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in > > > [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores]. > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/ > > > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00 > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf- > nmda-restconf-00 > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > submission > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > > > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > --001a1146d9505e6a8c0557fceb84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Martin Bjorklund &l= t;mbj@tail-f.com>= ; wrote:
Hi,

Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a few comments on this short draft:
>
> - terminology: there is no terminology section for new terms or RD ter= ms.
> None of the official terms in RD are used.

Thanks, I'll fix this.

> Conformance:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A RESTCONF server identifies that it supports NMDA both b= y supporting
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the <operational> datastore, as well as by supporti= ng at least
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 revision YANG_LIBRARY_REVISION of the "ietf-yang-lib= rary" module, as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specified in [I-D.nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis].
>
>
> Why can't a non-NMDA server implement the new yang-library revisio= n,
> and just include the conventional datastores? Is this prohibited?

No, this is probably ok.=C2=A0 But the text specifies what a NMDA-compliant=
server would do, and it certainly supports <operational>.

> I suggest a capability URI or some other deterministic indication of N= MDA
> conformance.

But NMDA conformance really just means that the new version of
yang-library is implemented, and that "operational" is listed as = a
datastore in the library.=C2=A0 So I'm not sure what an additional
capability would achieve.=C2=A0 This said, if people think it would be
useful for clarity that would be fine with me.


> Note the term <operational> datastore not used in any official t= erminology.

I'll fix the terminology.

> The first sentence is not clear that an NMDA server MUST support the > operational datastore.

We can add a very explicit sentence:

=C2=A0 An NMDA-compliant server MUST support the operational state
=C2=A0 datastore.


> There is no suitable definition of the operational datastore given.
I'll make sure we import the correct term from the nmda draft, and use<= br> the term properly.

> The text needs to say that the operational datastore is identified by<= br> > resource specification
>
>=C2=A0 {+restconf}/ds/ietf-datastores:operational
>
>
> The draft says "For instance" (implying e.g., not i.e.) and = never defines
> "the" operational datastore.
> (i.e., there is only one official operational datastore).

Ok.=C2=A0 I think we must state that the identity MUST be derived from
ietf-datastore (and provide a reference).

> The protocol operations section could provide more details.
> The handling of defaults is made extra vague by the 3rd bullet.
> What does apply if not this paragraph about MAY include defaults?

Ok, I'll expand the text.=C2=A0 It really means that all values are alw= ays
returned from <operational>, even if a node happens to have a default=
statement in the YANG module, and this default value is being used by
the server.



=C2=A0

> The with-origin query parameter and required server behavior are poorl= y
> defined.
> Is this query parameter mandatory to implement?=C2=A0 How does a clien= t know it
> can be used?

We should probably define a capability for "origin" support, just= like
we propose is done for NETCONF.



=C2=A0
> The draft completely ignores the fact that RESTCONF does not support > datastores
> or datastore locking, or sessions, or datastore lock recovery.=C2=A0 P= lease
> provide details about
> how usage of the /restconf/data resources can interact with specific > datastores.

Are you looking for something like the text in 1.4 in 8040?

Well it would be a start to say if this applies.
=
It is no different than using /restconf/operations/<netconf-operati= on> I guess.



> There are no examples at all in the draft, which would help since the = terse
> text
> is not that clear.

Ok, I'll add some examples.


Thanks for these comments!



/martin




Andy
=C2=A0

>
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:11 PM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Draft= s
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the = IETF.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0: RESTCONF Update to Support the NMDA
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0: Martin Bjorklund
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Juergen Schoenwaelder
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Phil Shafer
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Kent Watsen
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Robert Wilton
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 : draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00.txt
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0: 5
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : 2017-08-24
> >
> > Abstract:
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document updates RESTCONF [RFC8040] in order to= support the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) def= ined in
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-revised-datastores].
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00
> > https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf-00
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=
> > submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/i-d-announce
> > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt=
> >

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Aug 2017 01:20:49.7450 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1121 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-16.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 01:20:57 -0000 QmVsb3cgYXJlIG15IHByb3Bvc2FscyBmb3IgdGhlIHR3byByZW1haW5pbmcgaXNzdWVzIGlkZW50 aWZpZWQgaW4gbXkgcHJldmlvdXMNCmVtYWlsOg0KICAxKSBzdXBwb3J0aW5nIHdoaXRlIGJveGVz IChyYWlzZWQgYnkgRGVhbiBhbmQgUmFkZWspICANCiAgMikgcHJpdmFjeSBpc3N1ZXMgd2hlbiBj b25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gYW4gdW50cnVzdGVkIHNlcnZlciAocmFpc2VkIGJ5IEtlbnQpDQoNCg0KRm9y 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dmVyLCB0aGUgZGV2aWNlIHdvdWxkIHRoZW4gZXN0YWJsaXNoIGEgdHJ1c3RlZA0KICBjb25uZWN0 aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIsIGFuZCB0aGVyZWJ5IGJlIGFibGUgdG8gZnJlZWx5IHNlbmQgZGF0 YSB0bw0KICB0aGUgc2VydmVyLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgaXRzIElEZXZJRCBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSwgdW5p cXVlLWlkLCBxdWVyeSANCiAgcGFyYW1ldGVycywgYW5kIHZhcmlvdXMgcHJvZ3Jlc3MgdXBkYXRl cy4NCg0KDQoNClRob3VnaHRzPyAgSWYgbm8gb2JqZWN0aW9ucyBhcmUgcmFpc2VkIGluIGEgZmV3 IGRheXMsIEknbGwgcHJvY2VlZCB3aXRoDQp0aGVzZSB1cGRhdGVzLg0KDQoNCktlbnQgIC8vIGNv bnRyaWJ1dG9yDQoNCg0KICANCg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Thu Aug 31 06:02:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietf.org Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48929132D8B; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 06:02:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netconf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150418454225.16776.14582877343501470504@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 06:02:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:02:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Library Authors : Andy Bierman Martin Bjorklund Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2017-08-31 Abstract: This document describes a YANG library that provides information about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of this information. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 31 06:06:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netconf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D85132D8C for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 06:06:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKXD15TxoFAa for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 06:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2515132D87 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 06:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E06351AE043A for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:06:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:05:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170831.150502.2232675556616776188.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netconf@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <150418454225.16776.14582877343501470504@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150418454225.16776.14582877343501470504@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Netconf] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netconf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Configuration WG mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:06:32 -0000 Hi, This version of the YANG library has been reorganized wrt groupings along the lines requested by Joe Clark. Also, the text about updating RFC 8040 is removed, or rather it was moved to draft-ietf-netconf-nmda-restconf. /martin internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Configuration WG of the IETF. > > Title : YANG Library > Authors : Andy Bierman > Martin Bjorklund > Kent Watsen > Filename : draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2017-08-31 > > Abstract: > This document describes a YANG library that provides information > about all the YANG modules used by a network management server (e.g., > a Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) server). Simple caching > mechanisms are provided to allow clients to minimize retrieval of > this information. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf >