Subject: Re: [Notifications] Notifications Types for Lemonade

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:56:20 -0800

I can't make 1/24 nor 1/25.

How about 1/22 at 5:00 PM EST, or 1/23 at noon EST?

At 10:30 AM -0500 12/28/06, Eric Burger wrote:

>  Drawing on Dave's e-mail:
>
>  Do we have any interest in notifications OTHER than:
>
>  MWI (Message Waiting Indicator) - "You have 2 new messages, 1 fax message,
>  and 99 old messages"

Is the purpose of this solely to enable a device to turn on or off 
enunciators (e.g., voice mail or email icon on main phone screen)? 
More specifically, is the intent that this is primarily intended as 
input to a device's main UI, as opposed to a specific application on 
a device (such as an email client)?

>  OOB Sync Messages (Out-of-Band, i.e., not IMAP) - "Hey - wake up!  You have
>  some work to do at the server."

Is the purpose of this intended to be limited to such wake-ups?  If 
the intent is to exclude more detailed information (such as the 
sender address, subject text, attachment and size information) then 
we have a very simple protocol with limited security needs.  Such a 
protocol can probably be mandatory to implement, but provides only a 
subset of the desired cool capabilities.  (This is often a good thing 
to start with.)

>  User-Directed Alerts - "That important message from your boss just arrived."

The differences between each of the three categories involve the 
level of detail supplied (and hence the security requirements), 
complexity, and user control.

-- 
Randall Gellens
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From: Dave Cridland <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:28:18 +0000

> How about 1/22 at 5:00 PM EST, or 1/23 at noon EST?
5pm EST is 22:00 for me in UTC, and 23:00 for most of Europe. I can 
do this, but I'm not sure you'd get useful input.

Noon is 5pm for UTC, 6pm for CET. I can do this.

Dave.
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---

From: Dave Cridland <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:00:39 +0000

On Tue Jan  2 18:56:20 2007, Randall Gellens wrote:
> input to a device's main UI, as opposed to a specific application 
> on a device (such as an email client)?
> 
> 
Good question - I've heard this discussed as part of the notification 
area of Lemonade, and I'd got it into my head that we were talking 
about a simple icon or blinking light - very much a boolean 
indicator, rather than a numeric display.

> protocol can probably be mandatory to implement, but provides only 
> a subset of the desired cool capabilities.  (This is often a good 
> thing to start with.)
> 
> 
Well, I'd really seen this as a protocol to avoid synchronizing - 
what various people have described as "true push". A "sync needed" 
protocol is really a lot simpler, and simple STATUS message packaging 
probably do for that and the MWI scenario very nicely.

I'd also state for the record that I don't think we need more than a 
STATUS response, but pushing content and detailed state out of band 
has been a consistent feature of many proposals.

> complexity, and user control.

I'm not so sure. I think the first two can be seen as the limits on a 
spectrum of machine-readable notifications, whereas machine 
readability isn't nearly so important when considering a 
user-directed alert.

Luckily, I also happen to think that user-alerts are essentially 
taken care of by Sieve, on delivery.

Dave.

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From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:22:55 -0800

On Jan 3, 2007, at 9:00 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:

>> More specifically, is the intent that this is primarily intended  
>> as input to a device's main UI, as opposed to a specific  
>> application on a device (such as an email client)?
> Good question - I've heard this discussed as part of the  
> notification area of Lemonade, and I'd got it into my head that we  
> were talking about a simple icon or blinking light - very much a  
> boolean indicator, rather than a numeric display.

I use "Google Notifier" (which uses pull, not push notifications but  
we can take it as a real-life use case) to let me know when to check  
mail hosted by google.
	- It displays a coloured icon and a number when I have unread  
messages (number of unread msgs)
	- It displays the sender and the first 20 or so characters of the  
last four unread messages.
	- It displays how fresh the information is ("Checked 1 min ago")

Another use case is a calendar client that can be configured to look  
at your IMAP Inbox directly, and it wants to get notified when there  
are incoming iMIP messages rather than poll frequently (I guess the  
message ID would be nice to allow it to quickly download the whole  
message).

>> Is the purpose of this intended to be limited to such wake-ups?   
>> If the intent is to exclude more detailed information (such as the  
>> sender address, subject text, attachment and size information)  
>> then we have a very simple protocol with limited security needs.   
>> Such a protocol can probably be mandatory to implement, but  
>> provides only a subset of the desired cool capabilities.  (This is  
>> often a good thing to start with.)
> protocol is really a lot simpler, and simple STATUS message  
> packaging probably do for that and the MWI scenario very nicely.

My opinion is that it would be good to get notifications working at  
all, before trying to build true-push synchronization.  I'd prefer to  
have synchronization be out-of-scope for notification work.

Lisa

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 15:24:10 -0800

At 5:00 PM +0000 1/3/07, Dave Cridland wrote:

>  I'd also state for the record that I don't think we need more than 
> a STATUS response, but pushing content and detailed state out of 
> band has been a consistent feature of many proposals.
>
>  I'm not so sure. I think the first two can be seen as the limits on 
> a spectrum of machine-readable notifications, whereas machine 

Interesting -- I hadn't thought about machine readability as an 
aspect of this -- I'd been assuming that all notifications were 
machine-readable and would be interpreted by the client or device, 
and then acted on in some way (ignore, silently update cache, defer, 
download in background, display something to user, etc.)  So I was 
thinking of user-directed as user-specified criteria, that is, the 
"directed" meaning "directed by" instead of "directed at" (the user). 
For notifications directed at the user and not intended for 
processing by the device or client, does lemonade need to be involved 
at all?

> taken care of by Sieve, on delivery.

For user-readable alerts, I'd agree.  For machine-readable, I'd want 
to be sure it is covered properly.

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