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Subject: [OSPF] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling  MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Peter Psenak
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-05.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2017-06-04

Abstract:
   This document proposes a way to signal Maximum SID Depth (MSD)
   supported by a node at node and/or link granularity by an OSPF
   Router.  In a Segment Routing (SR) enabled network a centralized
   controller that programs SR tunnels needs to know the MSD supported
   by the head-end at node and/or link granularity to push the SID stack
   of an appropriate depth.  MSD is relevant to the head-end of a SR
   tunnel or Binding-SID anchor node where Binding-SID expansions might
   result in creation of a new SID stack.  Here the term OSPF means both
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-05
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Acee,

my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the SID/Label 
Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is not used for 
SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.

thanks,
Peter



On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Corrected IS-IS WG alias – Please reply to this one.
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM
> To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
> "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org
> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>, "isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>"
> <isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>>
> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>"
> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>>
> Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also
> effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)
>
>     Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,
>
>     As part of the Alia’s AD review, she uncovered the fact that the ERO
>     extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specified as far as encoding but are
>     not specified as far as usage in any IGP or SPRING document. As
>     document shepherd,  my proposal is that they simply be removed since
>     they were incorporated as part of a draft merge and it appears that
>     no one has implemented them (other than parsing). We could also
>     deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV
>     registry to delay usage of these code points for some time (or
>     indefinitely ;^).
>
>     Thanks,
>     Acee
>


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions  ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Important: Guidelines for YANG module authors
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Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 21:23:16 +0000
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:18:05 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Hi,

I would like to get some feedback on the usage of the SID/Label Binding TLV.

Is there any implementation that uses SID/Label Binding TLV for 
advertising the SID/Label binding to a FEC as specified in section 6 of 
the draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 or section 2.4 of 
draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12?

If not, do we see this as something we want to preserve in the IGP SR 
drafts?

ISIS uses The SID/Label Binding TLV to advertise
prefixes to SID/Label mappings, which is known to be supported by 
several implementations and that piece needs to be preserved.

thanks,
Peter

On 09/06/17 19:04 , Peter Psenak wrote:
> Acee,
>
> my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the SID/Label
> Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is not used for
> SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Corrected IS-IS WG alias – Please reply to this one.
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
>> Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM
>> To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>> "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org
>> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>, "isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>"
>> <isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>>
>> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>"
>> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>>
>> Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also
>> effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)
>>
>>     Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,
>>
>>     As part of the Alia’s AD review, she uncovered the fact that the ERO
>>     extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specified as far as encoding but are
>>     not specified as far as usage in any IGP or SPRING document. As
>>     document shepherd,  my proposal is that they simply be removed since
>>     they were incorporated as part of a draft merge and it appears that
>>     no one has implemented them (other than parsing). We could also
>>     deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV
>>     registry to delay usage of these code points for some time (or
>>     indefinitely ;^).
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Acee
>>
>
> .
>


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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:05:20 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <333262CF-AB4F-4BCC-B242-038C26042F66@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Hi,

I have got pretty much same view as Acee.
There are many application (future, to my knowledge no products) for which =
the concept of Binding SID (anchor node) is central, I=E2=80=99m aware of ISIS imp=
lementation, didn=E2=80=99t see OSPF.
=20
Currently, I don=E2=80=99t see any use to ERO extensions, perhaps could be remove=
d from base specs and added later, if/when clear use case shows up.
=20
Cheers,
Jeff
=20
On 6/12/17, 05:57, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Hi Bruno,=20
   =20
    Here is my view. =20
   =20
    On 6/12/17, 8:50 AM, "spring on behalf of bruno.decraene@orange.com"
    <spring-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
   =20
    >Hello SPRING WG,
    >
    >I'd like to encourage discussion on this thread.
    >
    >The related questions seem to be:
    >- Binding SIDs:
    >	-  Is there any implementation?
    >	- Is it useful?
    >	- Does it need to be specified?
   =20
    Binding SIDs as an architectural concept are very useful and will be
    leveraged by numerous use cases. For example, one implemented use case =
is
    BGP SR-TE.=20
    >
    >- Binding SIDs advertised in IGP:
    >	-  Is there any implementation?
    >	 - Is it useful?
    >	- Does it need to be specified?
   =20
    At least for OSPF(v3), we currently don=E2=80=99t see any usage of binding SI=
Ds. I
    believe there is a use case for IS-IS but I=E2=80=99ll defer to the authors o=
f the
    IS-IS SR draft and implementation to elaborate.
   =20
    As for the Bind SID ERO extensions, to the best of my knowledge, they a=
re
    not implemented or used by either OSPF or IS-IS.
   =20
    >
    >As of today, there seem to be multiple SPRING (related) document that
    >make reference (define/use) to the Binding SIDs. e.g.
    >- architecture=20
    >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11#secti=
on-3
    >.5.2
    >- MPLS instantiation
    >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-08#=
sect
    >ion-2
    >- non-protected paths
    >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-litkowski-spring-non-protected-paths=
-01#
    >section-3.3
    >- SR policies:=20
    >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-poli=
cy-0
    >0#section-7
    >
    >
    >However, it also seems a priori possible to define Binding SIDs and no=
t
    >advertised them in the IGP. (e.g. by keeping them local to the PCE)
    >
    >On a side note, if the Binding SIDs are removed from the IGP, do they
    >need to be removed from the BGP-LS extensions? [+IDR chairs]
   =20
    At least the ERO extensions should be removed.
   =20
    Thanks,
    Acee=20
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Regards,
    >--Bruno
    >
    >> From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak
    >> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:18 AM
    > > To: OSPF WG List; spring@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
    > > Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
    > > Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extension=
s
    >(would also effect
    > > OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
    > >=20
    > > Hi,
    > >=20
    > > I would like to get some feedback on the usage of the SID/Label
    >Binding TLV.
    > >=20
    > > Is there any implementation that uses SID/Label Binding TLV for
    > > advertising the SID/Label binding to a FEC as specified in section =
6 of
    > > the draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 or section 2.4 of
    > > draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12?
    > >=20
    > > If not, do we see this as something we want to preserve in the IGP =
SR
    > > drafts?
    > >=20
    > > ISIS uses The SID/Label Binding TLV to advertise
    > > prefixes to SID/Label mappings, which is known to be supported by
    > > several implementations and that piece needs to be preserved.
    > >=20
    > > thanks,
    > > Peter
    > >=20
    > > On 09/06/17 19:04 , Peter Psenak wrote:
    > > > Acee,
    > > >
    > > > my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the SID/La=
bel
    > > > Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is not use=
d
    >for
    > > > SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.
    > > >
    > > > thanks,
    > > > Peter
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
    > > >> Corrected IS-IS WG alias =E2=80=93 Please reply to this one.
    > > >> Thanks,
    > > >> Acee
    > > >>
    > > >> From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
    > > >> Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM
    > > >> To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
    > > >> "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org
    > > >> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>, "isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>=
"
    > > >> <isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>>
    > > >> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
    > > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>"
    > > >> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
    > > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>>
    > > >> Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would
    >also
    > > >> effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)
    > > >>
    > > >>     Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,
    > > >>
    > > >>     As part of the Alia=E2=80=99s AD review, she uncovered the fact th=
at
    >the ERO
    > > >>     extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specified as far as encoding b=
ut
    >are
    > > >>     not specified as far as usage in any IGP or SPRING document.=
 As
    > > >>     document shepherd,  my proposal is that they simply be remov=
ed
    >since
    > > >>     they were incorporated as part of a draft merge and it appea=
rs
    >that
    > > >>     no one has implemented them (other than parsing). We could a=
lso
    > > >>     deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix LSA Sub-=
TLV
    > > >>     registry to delay usage of these code points for some time (=
or
    > > >>     indefinitely ;^).
    > > >>
    > > >>     Thanks,
    > > >>     Acee
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > .
    > > >
    > >=20
    > > _______________________________________________
    > > OSPF mailing list
    > > OSPF@ietf.org
    > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
    >
    >______________________________________________________________________=
____
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    >electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
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   =20
   =20



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From: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:08:14 +0000
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To: bruno.decraene@orange.com, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>,  OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>,  "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Bruno, SPRING,

I am aware of at least one implementation that makes heavy use of Binding
SIDs, so I do not think that this is something that we can remove from the
protocol specification. It seems to me that we have a number of cases that
continue to exist that make it useful to have them specified, particularly:

   - Binding of a SID to a deeper label stack to prevent there being large
   label stacks required on ingress. This is required due to limited push
   depth, and limited readable label depths for hashing.
   - Re-use of some other protocol's or network's forwarding path by a
   device that is imposing an SR label stack.

There is not an alternative construct that can be used for this purpose, so
we should not remove it.

In both of these cases there seems, to me, to be a use case for having the
information in the IGP in the case that an implementation computes TE paths
using cSPF, having binding SID information available to it (along with the
ERO) enables it to reduce the label stack depth by finding binding SIDs
that follow the same path as the computed ERO. Without the ERO (which might
not be an RSVP-TE ERO, but I believe that it how it was first envisaged)
how can the head-end of an TE path know what path the advertised Binding
SID takes? It's fine to punt this and say "the PCE in the sky will know" -
however, I believe SPRING's charter doesn't limit the technology to only
centralised computation of paths.

I don't believe current demand for this is a good reason to remove it from
the protocol specification - it is still somewhat early days for folks
deploying TE based on SR - where I think the Binding SID concept is most
important.

r.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 at 05:50 <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Hello SPRING WG,
>
> I'd like to encourage discussion on this thread.
>
> The related questions seem to be:
> - Binding SIDs:
>         -  Is there any implementation?
>         - Is it useful?
>         - Does it need to be specified?
>
> - Binding SIDs advertised in IGP:
>         -  Is there any implementation?
>          - Is it useful?
>         - Does it need to be specified?
>
> As of today, there seem to be multiple SPRING (related) document that mak=
e
> reference (define/use) to the Binding SIDs. e.g.
> - architecture
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11#section-=
3.5.2
> - MPLS instantiation
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-08#sec=
tion-2
> - non-protected paths
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-litkowski-spring-non-protected-paths-01=
#section-3.3
> - SR policies:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-=
00#section-7
>
>
> However, it also seems a priori possible to define Binding SIDs and not
> advertised them in the IGP. (e.g. by keeping them local to the PCE)
>
> On a side note, if the Binding SIDs are removed from the IGP, do they nee=
d
> to be removed from the BGP-LS extensions? [+IDR chairs]
>
> Thanks,
> Regards,
> --Bruno
>
> > From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak
> > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:18 AM
>  > To: OSPF WG List; spring@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
>  > Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>  > Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions
> (would also effect
>  > OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
>  >
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > I would like to get some feedback on the usage of the SID/Label Bindin=
g
> TLV.
>  >
>  > Is there any implementation that uses SID/Label Binding TLV for
>  > advertising the SID/Label binding to a FEC as specified in section 6 o=
f
>  > the draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 or section 2.4 of
>  > draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12?
>  >
>  > If not, do we see this as something we want to preserve in the IGP SR
>  > drafts?
>  >
>  > ISIS uses The SID/Label Binding TLV to advertise
>  > prefixes to SID/Label mappings, which is known to be supported by
>  > several implementations and that piece needs to be preserved.
>  >
>  > thanks,
>  > Peter
>  >
>  > On 09/06/17 19:04 , Peter Psenak wrote:
>  > > Acee,
>  > >
>  > > my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the SID/Label
>  > > Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is not used f=
or
>  > > SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.
>  > >
>  > > thanks,
>  > > Peter
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>  > >> Corrected IS-IS WG alias =E2=80=93 Please reply to this one.
>  > >> Thanks,
>  > >> Acee
>  > >>
>  > >> From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
>  > >> Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM
>  > >> To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>  > >> "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org
>  > >> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>, "isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>"
>  > >> <isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>>
>  > >> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>  > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>"
>  > >> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>  > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>>
>  > >> Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would al=
so
>  > >> effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)
>  > >>
>  > >>     Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,
>  > >>
>  > >>     As part of the Alia=E2=80=99s AD review, she uncovered the fact=
 that the
> ERO
>  > >>     extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specified as far as encoding but
> are
>  > >>     not specified as far as usage in any IGP or SPRING document. As
>  > >>     document shepherd,  my proposal is that they simply be removed
> since
>  > >>     they were incorporated as part of a draft merge and it appears
> that
>  > >>     no one has implemented them (other than parsing). We could also
>  > >>     deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV
>  > >>     registry to delay usage of these code points for some time (or
>  > >>     indefinitely ;^).
>  > >>
>  > >>     Thanks,
>  > >>     Acee
>  > >>
>  > >
>  > > .
>  > >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > OSPF mailing list
>  > OSPF@ietf.org
>  > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez
> recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u
> falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
> information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
> delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n
> modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--001a11c024a8a1b3660551c303e6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Bruno, SPRING,<div><br></div><div>I am aware of at least o=
ne implementation that makes heavy use of Binding SIDs, so I do not think t=
hat this is something that we can remove from the protocol specification. I=
t seems to me that we have a number of cases that continue to exist that ma=
ke it useful to have them specified, particularly:</div><div><ul><li><font =
size=3D"2">Binding of a SID to a deeper label stack to prevent there being =
large label stacks required on ingress. This is required due to limited pus=
h depth, and limited readable label depths for hashing.</font></li><li><fon=
t size=3D"2">Re-use of some other protocol&#39;s or network&#39;s forwardin=
g path by a device that is imposing an SR label stack.</font></li></ul><div=
><font size=3D"2">There is not an alternative construct that can be used fo=
r this purpose, so we should not remove it.</font></div></div><div><font si=
ze=3D"2"><br></font></div><div><font size=3D"2">In both of these cases ther=
e seems, to me, to be a use case for having the information in the IGP in t=
he case that an implementation computes TE paths using cSPF, having binding=
 SID information available to it (along with the ERO) enables it to reduce =
the label stack depth by finding binding SIDs that follow the same path as =
the computed ERO. Without the ERO (which might not be an RSVP-TE ERO, but I=
 believe that it how it was first envisaged) how can the head-end of an TE =
path know what path the advertised Binding SID takes? It&#39;s fine to punt=
 this and say &quot;the PCE in the sky will know&quot; - however, I believe=
 SPRING&#39;s charter doesn&#39;t limit the technology to only centralised =
computation of paths.</font></div><div><font size=3D"2"><br></font></div><d=
iv><font size=3D"2">I don&#39;t believe current demand for this is a good r=
eason to remove it from the protocol specification - it is still somewhat e=
arly days for folks deploying TE based on SR - where I think the Binding SI=
D concept is most important.</font></div><div><font size=3D"2"><br></font><=
/div><div><font size=3D"2">r.</font></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 at 05:50 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bru=
no.decraene@orange.com">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello SPRING WG,<br>
<br>
I&#39;d like to encourage discussion on this thread.<br>
<br>
The related questions seem to be:<br>
- Binding SIDs:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0 Is there any implementation?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Is it useful?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Does it need to be specified?<br>
<br>
- Binding SIDs advertised in IGP:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0 Is there any implementation?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Is it useful?<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Does it need to be specified?<br>
<br>
As of today, there seem to be multiple SPRING (related) document that make =
reference (define/use) to the Binding SIDs. e.g.<br>
- architecture <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-seg=
ment-routing-11#section-3.5.2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11#section-3.5.2</a>=
<br>
- MPLS instantiation <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spri=
ng-segment-routing-mpls-08#section-2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-08#secti=
on-2</a><br>
- non-protected paths <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-litkowsk=
i-spring-non-protected-paths-01#section-3.3" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-litkowski-spring-non-protected-pat=
hs-01#section-3.3</a><br>
- SR policies: <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring=
-segment-routing-policy-00#section-7" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-00=
#section-7</a><br>
<br>
<br>
However, it also seems a priori possible to define Binding SIDs and not adv=
ertised them in the IGP. (e.g. by keeping them local to the PCE)<br>
<br>
On a side note, if the Binding SIDs are removed from the IGP, do they need =
to be removed from the BGP-LS extensions? [+IDR chairs]<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Regards,<br>
--Bruno<br>
<br>
&gt; From: OSPF [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">ospf-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:18 AM<br>
=C2=A0&gt; To: OSPF WG List; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">isis-wg@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@iet=
f.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extens=
ions (would also effect<br>
=C2=A0&gt; OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Hi,<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; I would like to get some feedback on the usage of the SID/Label =
Binding TLV.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Is there any implementation that uses SID/Label Binding TLV for<=
br>
=C2=A0&gt; advertising the SID/Label binding to a FEC as specified in secti=
on 6 of<br>
=C2=A0&gt; the draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 or section 2.4=
 of<br>
=C2=A0&gt; draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12?<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; If not, do we see this as something we want to preserve in the I=
GP SR<br>
=C2=A0&gt; drafts?<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; ISIS uses The SID/Label Binding TLV to advertise<br>
=C2=A0&gt; prefixes to SID/Label mappings, which is known to be supported b=
y<br>
=C2=A0&gt; several implementations and that piece needs to be preserved.<br=
>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; thanks,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Peter<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; On 09/06/17 19:04 , Peter Psenak wrote:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Acee,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the =
SID/Label<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is n=
ot used for<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; thanks,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Peter<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Corrected IS-IS WG alias =E2=80=93 Please reply to this=
 one.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Acee<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; From: Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; To: OSPF WG List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">ospf@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">spring@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:isis@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">isis@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:isis@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">isis@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:isis@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
isis@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:isis@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">isis@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-rou=
ting-extensions@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing=
-extensions@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-ro=
uting-extensions@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routin=
g-extensions@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-e=
xtensions@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-exten=
sions@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-ro=
uting-extensions@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routin=
g-extensions@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensio=
ns (would also<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt; effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0As part of the Alia=E2=80=99s AD rev=
iew, she uncovered the fact that the ERO<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specif=
ied as far as encoding but are<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0not specified as far as usage in any=
 IGP or SPRING document. As<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0document shepherd,=C2=A0 my proposal=
 is that they simply be removed since<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0they were incorporated as part of a =
draft merge and it appears that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0no one has implemented them (other t=
han parsing). We could also<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 =
Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0registry to delay usage of these cod=
e points for some time (or<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0indefinitely ;^).<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Acee<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; .<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
=C2=A0&gt; OSPF mailing list<br>
=C2=A0&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:OSPF@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">OSPF@ietf.org=
</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf</a><=
br>
<br>
___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________<br>
<br>
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<br>
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<br>
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<br>
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.<br>
<br>
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;<br>
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<br>
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.<br>
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--001a11c024a8a1b3660551c303e6--


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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:37:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
CC: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
Thread-Index: AQHS43pxPoK2+M5eY0W0s4AwnhuIiqIhdf8AgAAMTQA=
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:52:19 +0000
Message-ID: <2386A5FB-817D-4A8D-87A4-BD31EE4439DF@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:05:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 16:10:15 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
CC: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>,  OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Stefano, Rob,

the question is about the "usage of the SID/Label Binding TLV", not 
about the Binding SID concept. I don't know how to better describe the 
problem.

In ISIS SR draft SID/Label Binding TLV has two functions:

1. Advertise the SID/Label binding to a FEC
2. SRMS advertisements

In OSPF SID/Label Binding TLV has only one function:

1. Advertise the SID/Label binding to a FEC

The question is whether we need the function (1) at all in IGP SR drafts.

thanks,
Peter



On 12/06/17 15:52 , Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> sorry for the mess. I’m afraid, the problem has been poorly described.
>
> We’re obviously NOT questioning the use of the Binding SID and we’re NOT proposing the removal of it.
>
> What we’re talking about is the set of RSVP-like/ERO-like subTLVs that have been defined in both isis and ospf protocols and for which, apparently, nobody has found yet any use.
>
> Can we try to shutdown the unnecessary noise and confusion ?
>
> Thanks.
> s.
>
>
>> On Jun 12, 2017, at 3:08 PM, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:
>>
>> Bruno, SPRING,
>>
>> I am aware of at least one implementation that makes heavy use of Binding SIDs, so I do not think that this is something that we can remove from the protocol specification.
>> It seems to me that we have a number of cases that continue to exist that make it useful to have them specified, particularly:
>> 	• Binding of a SID to a deeper label stack to prevent there being large label stacks required on ingress. This is required due to limited push depth, and limited readable label depths for hashing.
>> 	• Re-use of some other protocol's or network's forwarding path by a device that is imposing an SR label stack.
>> There is not an alternative construct that can be used for this purpose, so we should not remove it.
>>
>> In both of these cases there seems, to me, to be a use case for having the information in the IGP in the case that an implementation computes TE paths using cSPF, having binding SID information available to it (along with the ERO) enables it to reduce the label stack depth by finding binding SIDs that follow the same path as the computed ERO. Without the ERO (which might not be an RSVP-TE ERO, but I believe that it how it was first envisaged) how can the head-end of an TE path know what path the advertised Binding SID takes? It's fine to punt this and say "the PCE in the sky will know" - however, I believe SPRING's charter doesn't limit the technology to only centralised computation of paths.
>>
>> I don't believe current demand for this is a good reason to remove it from the protocol specification - it is still somewhat early days for folks deploying TE based on SR - where I think the Binding SID concept is most important.
>>
>> r.
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 at 05:50 <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
>> Hello SPRING WG,
>>
>> I'd like to encourage discussion on this thread.
>>
>> The related questions seem to be:
>> - Binding SIDs:
>>          -  Is there any implementation?
>>          - Is it useful?
>>          - Does it need to be specified?
>>
>> - Binding SIDs advertised in IGP:
>>          -  Is there any implementation?
>>           - Is it useful?
>>          - Does it need to be specified?
>>
>> As of today, there seem to be multiple SPRING (related) document that make reference (define/use) to the Binding SIDs. e.g.
>> - architecture https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11#section-3.5.2
>> - MPLS instantiation https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-08#section-2
>> - non-protected paths https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-litkowski-spring-non-protected-paths-01#section-3.3
>> - SR policies: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy-00#section-7
>>
>>
>> However, it also seems a priori possible to define Binding SIDs and not advertised them in the IGP. (e.g. by keeping them local to the PCE)
>>
>> On a side note, if the Binding SIDs are removed from the IGP, do they need to be removed from the BGP-LS extensions? [+IDR chairs]
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Regards,
>> --Bruno
>>
>>> From: OSPF [mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak
>>> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:18 AM
>>   > To: OSPF WG List; spring@ietf.org; isis-wg@ietf.org
>>   > Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>>   > Subject: Re: [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect
>>   > OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
>>   >
>>   > Hi,
>>   >
>>   > I would like to get some feedback on the usage of the SID/Label Binding TLV.
>>   >
>>   > Is there any implementation that uses SID/Label Binding TLV for
>>   > advertising the SID/Label binding to a FEC as specified in section 6 of
>>   > the draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 or section 2.4 of
>>   > draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12?
>>   >
>>   > If not, do we see this as something we want to preserve in the IGP SR
>>   > drafts?
>>   >
>>   > ISIS uses The SID/Label Binding TLV to advertise
>>   > prefixes to SID/Label mappings, which is known to be supported by
>>   > several implementations and that piece needs to be preserved.
>>   >
>>   > thanks,
>>   > Peter
>>   >
>>   > On 09/06/17 19:04 , Peter Psenak wrote:
>>   > > Acee,
>>   > >
>>   > > my question is whether we need the whole section 6 and the SID/Label
>>   > > Binding Sub-TLV that it specifies. In OSPF Binding SID is not used for
>>   > > SRMS advertisement like in ISIS.
>>   > >
>>   > > thanks,
>>   > > Peter
>>   > >
>>   > >
>>   > >
>>   > > On 09/06/17 16:45 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>>   > >> Corrected IS-IS WG alias – Please reply to this one.
>>   > >> Thanks,
>>   > >> Acee
>>   > >>
>>   > >> From: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com <mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
>>   > >> Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 10:42 AM
>>   > >> To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org <mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>,
>>   > >> "spring@ietf.org <mailto:spring@ietf.org>" <spring@ietf.org
>>   > >> <mailto:spring@ietf.org>>, "isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>"
>>   > >> <isis@ietf.org <mailto:isis@ietf.org>>
>>   > >> Cc: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>>   > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>"
>>   > >> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org
>>   > >> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>>
>>   > >> Subject: OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also
>>   > >> effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS)
>>   > >>
>>   > >>     Hi OSPF, ISIS, and SPRING WGs,
>>   > >>
>>   > >>     As part of the Alia’s AD review, she uncovered the fact that the ERO
>>   > >>     extensions in 6.1 and 6.2 are specified as far as encoding but are
>>   > >>     not specified as far as usage in any IGP or SPRING document. As
>>   > >>     document shepherd,  my proposal is that they simply be removed since
>>   > >>     they were incorporated as part of a draft merge and it appears that
>>   > >>     no one has implemented them (other than parsing). We could also
>>   > >>     deprecate types (4-8) in the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix LSA Sub-TLV
>>   > >>     registry to delay usage of these code points for some time (or
>>   > >>     indefinitely ;^).
>>   > >>
>>   > >>     Thanks,
>>   > >>     Acee
>>   > >>
>>   > >
>>   > > .
>>   > >
>>   >
>>   > _______________________________________________
>>   > OSPF mailing list
>>   > OSPF@ietf.org
>>   > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
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CC: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, "idr-chairs@ietf.org" <idr-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [spring] [OSPF] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 14:16:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [spring] OSPFv2 Segment Routing Extensions ERO Extensions (would also effect OSPFv3 and IS-IS) - REPLY TO THIS ONE
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From: "Balaji Ganesh (balagane)" <balagane@cisco.com>
To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RFC 3101 NSSA/External Route preference clarification
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Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 08:13:23 +0000
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Subject: [OSPF] RFC 3101 NSSA/External Route preference clarification
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Hi all,

When the metrics are same, RFC 3101 specifies the preference for NSSA/Exter=
nal routes as follows.
In the section 2.5<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3101#section-2.5> Calcula=
ting Type-7 AS External Routes - 2.5.6.(e), it says..

          (e) If the current LSA is functionally the same as an
              installed LSA (i.e., same destination, cost and non-zero
              forwarding address) then apply the following priorities in
              deciding which LSA is preferred:

                 1. A Type-7 LSA with the P-bit set.

                 2. A Type-5 LSA.

                 3. The LSA with the higher router ID.


Points 1 and 2 are clear..

However Point 3 specifies preference of an LSA with a higher router ID. Why=
 is it so?


-          Should we not install ECMP paths in this case?

-          Is point 3 actually intended for NSSA translators to prefer a Ty=
pe 7 LSA which needs to be used for translation to Type 5?

Considering the above 2 points, I guess point 3 needs to be modified in the=
 RFC to probably say..

                    3. Preference is same, install ECMP paths.
                       Additionally if the router is an NSSA translator, pr=
efer the LSA with higher router ID for Type 7-Type 5 translation.

Please let know any views/comments on the same.

Regards,
Balaji


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<body lang=3D"EN-IN" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">When the metrics are same, RFC 3101 specifies the pr=
eference for NSSA/External routes as follows.<o:p></o:p></p>
<h3 style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:0pt">In the section <a name=3D"section-2.5=
"></a><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3101#section-2.5"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;m=
so-fareast-language:EN-IN">2.5</span></b></a><b><span style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:E=
N-IN">
 Calculating Type-7 AS External Routes - </span></b>2.5.6.(e), it says..<b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:b=
lack;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p></o:p></span></b></h3>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (e) If the current LSA is functionally =
the same as an<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; installed LSA (=
i.e., same destination, cost and non-zero<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; forwarding addr=
ess) then apply the following priorities in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; deciding which =
LSA is preferred:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; 1. A Type-7 LSA with the P-bit set.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; 2. A Type-5 LSA.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; 3. The LSA with the higher router ID.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Points 1 and 2 are clear=
.. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However Point 3 specifies preference of an LSA with =
a higher router ID. Why is it so?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Should we not install ECMP paths in this case?<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Is point 3 actually intended for NSSA translators t=
o prefer a Type 7 LSA which needs to be used for translation to Type 5?<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Considering the above 2 points, I guess point 3 need=
s to be modified in the RFC to probably say..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3. Preference is same, install ECMP paths.</span>=
<span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-IN">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Additionally if the router is an NSS=
A translator, prefer the LSA with higher router ID for Type 7-Type 5 transl=
ation.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please let know any views/comments on the same.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Balaji <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_d603d4b43ade416093bc56b9fd7602beXCHALN017ciscocom_--


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Subject: [OSPF] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC2328 (5041)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC2328,
"OSPF Version 2".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5041

--------------------------------------
Type: Editorial
Reported by: Adam Augustyn <brylant@gmail.com>

Section: 10.2

Original Text
-------------
1-Way
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

Corrected Text
--------------
1-WayReceived
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

Notes
-----
RFC2328 defines The Neighbor state machine and it's states. One of the states is defined/named as 1-WayReceived ([Page 95] 10.3.).
1-WayReceived is also mentioned on page 84 and 98.

Pages 85 and 88 use event 1Way which should be renamed to 1-WayReceived for consistency with definition of the state.

[Page 85]
Event 1-Way forces Init state,


[Page 88]
10.2.  Events causing neighbor state changes 
1-Way
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party  
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
--------------------------------------
Title               : OSPF Version 2
Publication Date    : April 1998
Author(s)           : J. Moy
Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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Subject: [OSPF] [Errata Verified] RFC2328 (5041)
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The following errata report has been verified for RFC2328,
"OSPF Version 2". 

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5041

--------------------------------------
Status: Verified
Type: Editorial

Reported by: Adam Augustyn <brylant@gmail.com>
Date Reported: 2017-06-13
Verified by: Alia Atlas (IESG)

Section: 10.2

Original Text
-------------
1-Way
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

Corrected Text
--------------
1-WayReceived
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

Notes
-----
RFC2328 defines The Neighbor state machine and it's states. One of the states is defined/named as 1-WayReceived ([Page 95] 10.3.).
1-WayReceived is also mentioned on page 84 and 98.

Pages 85 and 88 use event 1Way which should be renamed to 1-WayReceived for consistency with definition of the state.

[Page 85]
Event 1-Way forces Init state,


[Page 88]
10.2.  Events causing neighbor state changes 
1-Way
    An Hello packet has been received from the neighbor, in
    which the router is not mentioned.  This indicates that
    communication with the neighbor is not bidirectional.

On p. 85 after Figure 13, it says "Figure 13: Neighbor state changes (Database Exchange)
 ....
                Event 1-Way forces Init state,
 "
and Event 1-Way should be replaced with 1-WayReceived

--------------------------------------
RFC2328 (no draft string recorded)
--------------------------------------
Title               : OSPF Version 2
Publication Date    : April 1998
Author(s)           : J. Moy
Category            : INTERNET STANDARD
Source              : Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area                : Routing
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:22:32 -0400
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To: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>,  "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>,  "spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16
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On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) <
sprevidi@cisco.com> wrote:

>
> > On May 31, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Acee,
> >
> > On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Alia,
> > Thank you for your comments. I certainly don=E2=80=99t agree with all o=
f them
> but will allow the authors to respond. For example, I believe the concept
> of an SRMS to be well-undestood and defined in the SPRING WG. Perhaps we
> just need the right references.
> >
> > I found circular references about an SRMS in the SPRING WG documents bu=
t
> nothing that was a clear definition.
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop is the document where the
> srms is briefly introduced. I agree with you, more details are needed and
> then the sr-igp drafts (ospf,ospfv3,isis) should point to the ldp-interop
> draft.
>
> I will submit a new version of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-inte=
rop
> not later than this week.
>

Thank you.

Alia

s.
>
>
> >  I didn't read all the SPRING WG drafts, of course, but I did follow th=
e
> references from this document and from that on - back to the
> isis-segment-routing-extensions draft. Obviously, on the one hand, it
> isn't the job of the OSPF WG to define this - but it does need clear
> references so the technology can be understood in context.
> >
> > The one comment I will respond to is the one regarding the author limit=
.
> Note that this is covered in the Shepherd=E2=80=99s Write-Up. I=E2=80=99v=
e excerpted it
> here:
> >
> >       The document does have seven authors. All the authors have
> >       played in active role in the development of the standard includin=
g
> >       periodic segment routing design team meetings.  All of the author=
s
> >       have responded promptly to IPR polls. At least three of the
> >       authors represented independent implementations. There is
> >       absolutely no reason to relegate any of them to contributor statu=
s.
> >
> > Then the solution may be to have one or two be editors and on the front
> page.  I am willing to discuss but
> > I am getting quite tired of this consistent issue on almost every draft
> I receive for publication.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99ll be on vacation the remainder of this week but will touch b=
ase with
> the authors on Monday.
> >
> > Have a good vacation!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alia
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Acee
> > From: OSPF <ospf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Alia Atlas <
> akatlas@gmail.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM
> > To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-
> routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-
> routing-extensions@ietf.org>, "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.co=
m>,
> Deborah Brungard <db3546@att.com>
> > Cc: "spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-
> routing-extensions-16
> >
> > I forgot to point out that the Security Considerations sections is not
> close to sufficient.
> > At a minimum, it needs to refer to the existing security work for OSPF,
> indicate what new
> > information is being advertised, and discuss if there are any privacy o=
r
> security concerns
> > around them.  I don't personally see any - except for, perhaps, the
> increased ability to fingerprint
> > the type and version of routers with these advertisements.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alia
> >
> > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-ro=
uting-extensions-16
> once publication has been requested.  First, I would like to thank the
> editors & many authors, Peter, Stefano, Clarence, Hannes, Rob, Wim & Jeff=
,
> for the work that they have put in so far and the remaining work that is
> greatly needed.
> >
> > While there are a great many issues to be handled, they fall primarily
> into three categories.  The first is simply not going through and
> tightening up the details; for example, stating that the length of a TLV =
is
> variable provides no meaning.  The second is that the technical documents
> from SPRING that this draft depends on do not adequately describe the use
> of the advertised information (SID/Label Binding TLV) or some of the
> concepts (e.g. SR Mapping Server).  The third is a more common set of
> handling error cases and adding clarity to the intended behavior.  I do n=
ot
> see issues with the encodings but I do see fragility with the unstated
> assumptions and behaviors.  The draft describes encodings, but very littl=
e
> of the handling, behaviors, or meaning - and the references do not provid=
e
> adequate detail.
> >
> > I have spent all day (and evening) doing this review and I am quite
> disappointed and concerned about the document.  I would strongly recommen=
d
> having sharing the next WGLC with the SPRING working group; perhaps more
> eyes will help with the discrepancies.
> >
> > I have not yet decided what to do about the "early" IANA allocation -
> which has now existed for this draft for 3 years.  I do know that there a=
re
> implementations,
> > but I am currently seeing the failure of this work to successfully
> complete as an example of an issue with providing early allocations.
> >
> > MAJOR ISSUES:
> >
> > 1) This draft has 7 authors.  The limit for authors & editors is 5, as
> is clearly stated in RFC 7322 Sec 4.1.1 and has been the case for well ov=
er
> a decade, unless there are extraordinary circumstances.  Is there a reaso=
n
> to not simply list the active editor and move the others to contributors?
> One of the authors is already listed there.  I regret that failure to dea=
l
> earlier with this long-standing IETF policy will be delaying progressing
> the draft.
> >
> > 2) This expired individual draft(draft-minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-prote=
ction-03)
> is listed as Informative - but IS ACTUALLY NORMATIVE since it DEFINES the
> > "M-bit - When the bit is set, the binding represents a mirroring contex=
t
> as defined in [I-D.minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-protection]."
> Unfortunately, when I look there for the definition of a mirroring contex=
t,
> it doesn't exists.
> >
> > 3) The following Informative references expired several years ago and -
> being individual drafts - do not appear to convey the SPRING or TEAS WG
> consensus.
> >    a)  draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-03 was
> replaced with draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-07 and there
> are considerable differences.
> >    b) It is unclear what happened to draft-filsfils-spring-segment-rout=
ing-use-cases-01,
> but I do not see any successor - or reason for this individual draft to
> explain the OSPFv2 extensions more than work from the SPRING WG.
> >
> > 4) Sec 3.3: Is it ok to advertise an SRLB TLV without advertising the
> SR-Algorithm TLV?  What is the expected behavior and assumptions by the
> receiver?
> >
> > 5) Sec 3.4:  What happens if an SRMS Preference TLV is advertised
> without an SR-Algorithm TLV in the same scope?  I see that it says "For t=
he
> purpose of the SRMS Preference Sub-TLV advertisement, AS scope flooding i=
s
> required." but also provides for area scope flooding.  Some words
> clarifying the expected behavior would be useful.
> >
> > 6) Sec 5: "In such case, MPLS EXP bits of the Prefix-SID are not
> preserved for
> > the final destination (the Prefix-SID being removed)."   I am quite
> startled to see an assumption that MPLS Pipe mode is being forced as part
> of specifying PHP mode!  This will also break any ECN or 3-color marking
> that has affected the MPLS EXP bits.  I would like to see and understand =
a
> clear justification for why short-pipe mode is being required instead of
> Uniform (or up to implementation/configuration.).   Basically, this
> sentence means that transport considerations are a necessary section -
> which is completely inappropriate in an IGP draft.
> >
> > 7) Sec 6: This section defines the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV - which
> appears to be a way to advertise an explicit path - and has a SID/Label b=
y
> which the path can be entered.   How and what state is set up by the
> sending router to create the indicated segment is completely unclear.   I
> have hunted through draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing,
> draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls, and draft-ietf-spring-segment-rou=
ting-ldp-interop,
> RFC7855, and draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.   As far as I
> can tell, NONE of them clearly describe the details of where and why this
> advertising is needed.  Obviously, this mechanism does allow the potentia=
l
> shortening of the MPLS label stack at the cost of advertising multi-hop
> explicit path segments across the entire area or AS.  There MUST be a
> normative description of what the sending router will do when a packet is
> received with the specified label.
> >
> > 8) Sec 4: "The Segment Routing Mapping Server, which is described in
> [I-D.filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop]"  Where precisely is an
> SRMS and its behavior/role actually defined?  draft-ietf-spring-segment-r=
outing-ldp-interop-07
> claims:"SR to LDP interworking requires a SRMS as defined in
> [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions]." but that wouldn't be
> appropriate, of course, and it isn't there either!
> draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-04 talks about SRMS, but doesn't
> define it.   draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 mentions in Sec 3.5.1
> that "A Remote-Binding SID S advertised by the mapping server M" and refe=
rs
> to the ldp-interop draft for further details - but obviously not about an
> SRMS.
> >
> > Minor Issues:
> >
> > 1) In Sec 3.1, it says: "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional. It MUST only
> be advertised once in the Router Information Opaque LSA.  If the SID/Labe=
l
> Range TLV, as defined in Section 3.2, is advertised, then the SR-Algorith=
m
> TLV MUST
> > also be advertised."  Please provide a pointer in the text to the
> behavior for a receiving router if one or both of these are violated?   F=
or
> the requirement to advertise the SR-Algorithm TLV, please clarify that th=
is
> is in the same RI LSA as the SID/Label Range TLV was advertised & with th=
e
> same scope.  What does it mean, in terms of the receiving router, to
> determine that the sending router supports SR or not - given the
> possibility of receiving other SR-related TLVS in an RI LSA without getti=
ng
> an SR-Algorithm TLV?
> >
> > 2) Sec 3.1: The SR-Algorithm TLV simply defines "Length: Variable".
> Given that advertising Algorithm 0 is required, I'm fairly sure that the
> Length has to be a minimum of 1 - and, to prevent overrun & weird issues,
> let's have a reasonable maximum (for instance, 24) too.  It wouldn't hurt
> to remind readers that the length is just that of the value field - thoug=
h
> experienced OSPF implementers will know that.
> >
> > 3) Sec 3.1 & Sec 3.2 & Sec 3.3: "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV
> advertisement, area scope flooding is required." and "For the purpose of
> SID/Label Range TLV advertisement, area scope flooding is required."  and
> "For the purpose of SR Local Block Sub-TLV TLV advertisement, area scope
> flooding is required." Please capitalize REQUIRED as per RFC 2119.
> Otherwise, please explain behavior when area scope isn't used.
> >
> > 4) Sec 3.2:  The SID/Label Range TLV doesn't indicate that include a
> SID/Label sub-TLV is required - but I don't understand how it could be
> interpreted otherwise; nor does it indicate what to do if there are
> multiple SID/Label sub-TLVs included in a single SID/Label Range TLV. Aga=
in
> "Length" is just defined as variable.  In this case, it clearly can't be
> less than 11 (probably 12, assuming padding to the 32-bit boundary).   It
> would be useful to have an upper-bound on length, but at least here I can
> see the argument that meaningful flexibility is provided for.
> >
> > 5) SID index is used without introduction in Sec 3.2.  It isn't defined
> in the terminology of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 and the other
> uses of it in this document aren't enough to clearly define it.  Please a=
dd
> at least a description of its meaning before use - in a terminology
> section, if necessary.
> >
> > 6) Sec 3.2: "The originating router advertises the following ranges:
> >          Range 1: [100, 199]
> >          Range 2: [1000, 1099]
> >          Range 3: [500, 599]"
> > Please turn this into the information actually advertised - i.e.
> >    Range 1: Range Size: 100   SID/Label sub-TLV: 100  =3D> meaning [100=
,
> 199]
> > etc.
> >
> > 7) 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV:  Please specify that the sender MUST NOT
> advertise overlapping ranges & how to handle the case when it does.  This
> is required by draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution.
> >
> > 8) Sec 3.3  SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV: The document doesn't specify
> that the SR Local Block TLV MUST include a SID/Label sub-TLV nor indicate
> what to do if multiple are included.  The Length, again, isn't specified =
at
> all and clearly has at least a minimum.   I don't see a reference to an S=
R
> Local Block or the need to advertise it in draft-ietf-spring-segment-rout=
ing-11;
> perhaps I missed where the requirement and usage are defined?
> >
> > 9) Sec 3.3: "Each time a SID from the SRLB is allocated, it SHOULD also
> be
> >    reported to all components..."  Presumably, this is subjected to the
> normal OSPF dampening - it'd be nice to note that somewhere - since rapid
> sequential allocation may not provide the reporting speed anticipated.
> >
> > 10) Sec 4: "AF: Address family for the prefix. Currently, the only
> supported
> >       value is 0 for IPv4 unicast.  The inclusion of address family in
> >       this TLV allows for future extension."  Could you please clarify
> if this is to reuse the same TLV for OSPFv3 so IPv6 can be supported, are
> you thinking of extending OSPFv2 for IPv6 prefixes for some cases or
> something else? I think the current phrasing is likely to raise questions=
.
> Similarly, please define "Prefix length: Length of the prefix" clearly.  =
I
> really don't understand what the benefit of having a TLV that pretends to
> support multiple AFs but can't is versus the clarity of specifying the
> prefix lengths.
> >
> > 11) Sec 4:  Again "Length: Variable" - It should have a minimum and
> preferable describe a function for how it is computed.  A maximum is
> probably unlikely  with sub-TLVs.
> >
> > 12) Sec 4: OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV:  Does this TLV has any
> meaning or action associated with it without including sub-TLVs?  Are the=
re
> mandatory sub-TLVs?  What is a receiving router to do with it?
> >
> > 13) Sec 5: "If multiple Prefix-SIDs are advertised for the same prefix,
> the
> >   receiving router MUST use the first encoded SID and MAY use
> >   subsequent SIDs."  What does this even mean?  A receiving router when
> making the decision to use a subsequent SID is making a decision to not u=
se
> the first encoded SID; it's not like the router is going to stick both
> SID/Labels onto the stack.   Please describe this in meaningful normative
> terms.
> >
> > 14) Sec 5:" When calculating the outgoing label for the prefix, the
> router MUST
> >    take into account the E and P flags advertised by the next-hop route=
r
> >    if that router advertised the SID for the prefix.  This MUST be done
> >    regardless of whether the next-hop router contributes to the best
> >    path to the prefix."  First, I assume this is "NP flag" because ther=
e
> is no P flag.
> >    Second - please clarify to "take into account, as described below,
> the E and NP flags...".  Third, the M flag must also be taken into accoun=
t
> - given the text later in the section.
> >
> > 15) Sec 5: "When a Prefix-SID is advertised in an Extended Prefix Range
> TLV, then the value advertised in the Prefix SID Sub-TLV is interpreted a=
s a
> >    starting SID value."   This appears to contradict "SID/Index/Label:
> According to the V and L flags, it contains either:
> >
> >          A 32-bit index defining the offset in the SID/Label space
> >          advertised by this router.
> >
> >          A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmost bits are used for
> >          encoding the label value."
> >   I assume that what is meant by the first quote is "...is interpreted,
> if the V flag is clear, as a starting SID value, and if the V flag is set=
,
> as a starting Label value."  Otherwise, it looks like the Prefix-SID
> sub-TLV couldn't be included in the Extended Prefix Range TLV if a label
> value would be used.
> >
> > It would be helpful for Example 2 to show the label case.
> >
> > 16) Sec 6.1: "aggregate IGP or TE path cost."  Given that this is an
> OSPF draft, it'd be helpful to indicate whether there are challenges with
> non-comparable OSPF metrics (I'm thinking about AS-external type 2 costs)
> or if the path will never include such costs.
> >
> > 17) Sec 6.2: "a domain and hence need to be disambiguated using a
> domain-unique Router-ID."  Given that the Prefix-SIDs and sub-TLVs can be
> distributed between areas and even redistributed between protocols, pleas=
e
> clearly define what is meant by a "domain" or point to the appropriate
> definition.
> >
> > 18) Sec 4, 5, 6:  Is it possible to have an OSPF Extended Prefix Range
> TLV that includes both a Prefix SID Sub-TLV and a SID/Label Binding
> Sub-TLV?   What does that mean?
> >
> > What does it mean if there are multiple prefixes described in the OSPF
> Extended Prefix Range TLV that includes a SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV?  Doe=
s
> the SID/Label sub-sub-TLV indicate a single SID Index or Label that is us=
ed
> for the single path to all those prefixes?  Is it the start of a list of
> SID Indices or Labels?
> > I see that the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV can be in both the OSPF
> Extended Prefx Range TLV as well as the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV - but
> there is no text on differences in interpretation.
> >
> > 19) Sec 7.1 & 7.2: Another  couple "Length: Variable."  Please actually
> specify the value. I think that, given the padding to 32-bit alignment,
> there is a single correct value.
> >
> > 20) Sec 7.1 and 7.2: Given that the Flag bits have exactly the same
> meaning - it'd be clearer to have them defined once.
> >
> > 21) Sec 8.1: "An SR Mapping Server MUST use the OSPF Extended Prefix
> Range TLV when advertising SIDs for prefixes.  Prefixes of different
> route-types can be combined in a single OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV
> advertised by an SR Mapping Server."    So - I can't find a normative
> definition of an SRMS to determine why it is always necessary to use an
> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV instead of an OSPF Extended Prefix TLV.   =
I
> don't see how advertising prefixes from different route-types can work
> unless the prefixes are adjacent, which seems likely to be uncommon.
> Perhaps what is meant is "Because the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV
> doesn't include a Route-Type field, as in the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV, i=
t
> is possible to include adjacent prefixes from different Route-Types in th=
e
> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV."
> >
> > 22) Sec 8.1: "If multiple routers advertise a Prefix-SID for the same
> prefix, then
> > the Prefix-SID MUST be the same.  This is required in order to allow
> traffic load-balancing when multiple equal cost paths to the destination
> exist in the OSPFv2 routing domain."  How is this enforced?  What are the
> consequences of it not being conformed to?  This is NOT a protocol
> implementation requirement.  This should really be called out in a
> Manageability Considerations with warnings.
> >
> > 23) Sec 8.2:"If no Prefix-SID was advertised for the prefix in the
> source area
> >       by the router that contributes to the best path to the prefix, th=
e
> >       originating ABR will use the Prefix-SID advertised by any other
> >       router when propagating the Prefix-SID for the prefix to other
> >       areas."  I believe that this depends on the assumption that if a
> Prefix-SID is advertised by any router, the Prefix-SID will be the same.
> Please be explicit in this assumption, since the requirement on the netwo=
rk
> operator should be clear as well as the consequences of not conforming.
> >
> > 24) Sec 10:  The Implementation Status section should indicate that it
> is to be removed before publication as an RFC.   Also, the complete
> implementation part seems a bit dated - given the draft's technical chang=
es
> in the last 2 years.
> >
> >
> > NITS:
> >
> > 1) Sec 2.1: s/"SID/Label TLV"/"SID/Label sub-TLV"
> >
> > 2) Sec 3.2:"Initially, the only supported Sub-TLV is the SID/Label TLV
> as defined
> >    in Section 2.1.  The SID/Label advertised in the SID/Label TLV
> >    represents the first SID/Label in the advertised range."
> >    replace SID/Label TLV with SID/Label sub-TLV.
> >
> > 3) Sec 3.3 & Sec 3.4: " The SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV is a top-leve=
l
> TLV of the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770])."   Pleas=
e
> correct the descriptions (many) to SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV to SR
> Local Block SRLB TLV.   The same issue exists for "SRMS Preference Sub-TL=
V".
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alia
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Stefano Previdi (sprevidi) <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sprevidi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sprevi=
di@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span =
class=3D""><br>
&gt; On May 31, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@=
gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Acee,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Alia,<br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments. I certainly don=E2=80=99t agree with all =
of them but will allow the authors to respond. For example, I believe the c=
oncept of an SRMS to be well-undestood and defined in the SPRING WG. Perhap=
s we just need the right references.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I found circular references about an SRMS in the SPRING WG documents b=
ut nothing that was a clear definition.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-interop is the document w=
here the srms is briefly introduced. I agree with you, more details are nee=
ded and then the sr-igp drafts (ospf,ospfv3,isis) should point to the ldp-i=
nterop draft.<br>
<br>
I will submit a new version of draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-i=
nterop not later than this week.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thank =
you.</div><div><br></div><div>Alia</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
s.<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 I didn&#39;t read all the SPRING WG drafts, of course, but I did=
 follow the references from this document and from that on - back to the is=
is-segment-routing-<wbr>extensions draft. Obviously, on the one hand, it is=
n&#39;t the job of the OSPF WG to define this - but it does need clear refe=
rences so the technology can be understood in context.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The one comment I will respond to is the one regarding the author limi=
t. Note that this is covered in the Shepherd=E2=80=99s Write-Up. I=E2=80=99=
ve excerpted it here:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The document does have seven authors. All th=
e authors have<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0played in active role in the development of =
the standard including<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0periodic segment routing design team meeting=
s.=C2=A0 All of the authors<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0have responded promptly to IPR polls. At lea=
st three of the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0authors represented independent implementati=
ons. There is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0absolutely no reason to relegate any of them=
 to contributor status.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Then the solution may be to have one or two be editors and on the fron=
t page.=C2=A0 I am willing to discuss but<br>
&gt; I am getting quite tired of this consistent issue on almost every draf=
t I receive for publication.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99ll be on vacation the remainder of this week but will touch =
base with the authors on Monday.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Have a good vacation!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Alia<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Acee<br>
&gt; From: OSPF &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf-bounces@ietf.org">ospf-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail=
.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:35 PM<br>
&gt; To: OSPF WG List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@ietf.org</a=
>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@i=
etf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<wbr>routing-extensions@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org"=
>draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<wbr>routing-extensions@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;Al=
varo Retana (aretana)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aretana@cisco.com">aretan=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Deborah Brungard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:db3546@att.com"=
>db3546@att.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org">spring-chair=
s@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-chairs@tools.ietf.o=
rg">spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<wbr>routing-=
extensions-16<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I forgot to point out that the Security Considerations sections is not=
 close to sufficient.<br>
&gt; At a minimum, it needs to refer to the existing security work for OSPF=
, indicate what new<br>
&gt; information is being advertised, and discuss if there are any privacy =
or security concerns<br>
&gt; around them.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t personally see any - except for, perhap=
s, the increased ability to fingerprint<br>
&gt; the type and version of routers with these advertisements.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Alia<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aka=
tlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<=
wbr>routing-extensions-16 once publication has been requested.=C2=A0 First,=
 I would like to thank the editors &amp; many authors, Peter, Stefano, Clar=
ence, Hannes, Rob, Wim &amp; Jeff, for the work that they have put in so fa=
r and the remaining work that is greatly needed.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; While there are a great many issues to be handled, they fall primarily=
 into three categories.=C2=A0 The first is simply not going through and tig=
htening up the details; for example, stating that the length of a TLV is va=
riable provides no meaning.=C2=A0 The second is that the technical document=
s from SPRING that this draft depends on do not adequately describe the use=
 of the advertised information (SID/Label Binding TLV) or some of the conce=
pts (e.g. SR Mapping Server).=C2=A0 The third is a more common set of handl=
ing error cases and adding clarity to the intended behavior.=C2=A0 I do not=
 see issues with the encodings but I do see fragility with the unstated ass=
umptions and behaviors.=C2=A0 The draft describes encodings, but very littl=
e of the handling, behaviors, or meaning - and the references do not provid=
e adequate detail.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have spent all day (and evening) doing this review and I am quite di=
sappointed and concerned about the document.=C2=A0 I would strongly recomme=
nd having sharing the next WGLC with the SPRING working group; perhaps more=
 eyes will help with the discrepancies.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I have not yet decided what to do about the &quot;early&quot; IANA all=
ocation - which has now existed for this draft for 3 years.=C2=A0 I do know=
 that there are implementations,<br>
&gt; but I am currently seeing the failure of this work to successfully com=
plete as an example of an issue with providing early allocations.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; MAJOR ISSUES:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) This draft has 7 authors.=C2=A0 The limit for authors &amp; editors=
 is 5, as is clearly stated in RFC 7322 Sec 4.1.1 and has been the case for=
 well over a decade, unless there are extraordinary circumstances.=C2=A0 Is=
 there a reason to not simply list the active editor and move the others to=
 contributors?=C2=A0 One of the authors is already listed there.=C2=A0 I re=
gret that failure to deal earlier with this long-standing IETF policy will =
be delaying progressing the draft.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) This expired individual draft(draft-minto-rsvp-lsp-<wbr>egress-fast=
-protection-03) is listed as Informative - but IS ACTUALLY NORMATIVE since =
it DEFINES the<br>
&gt; &quot;M-bit - When the bit is set, the binding represents a mirroring =
context as defined in [I-D.minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-<wbr>fast-protection].&quo=
t;=C2=A0 Unfortunately, when I look there for the definition of a mirroring=
 context, it doesn&#39;t exists.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 3) The following Informative references expired several years ago and =
- being individual drafts - do not appear to convey the SPRING or TEAS WG c=
onsensus.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a)=C2=A0 draft-filsfils-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-i=
nterop-03 was replaced with draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-inte=
rop-07 and there are considerable differences.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b) It is unclear what happened to draft-filsfils-spring-s=
egment-<wbr>routing-use-cases-01, but I do not see any successor - or reaso=
n for this individual draft to explain the OSPFv2 extensions more than work=
 from the SPRING WG.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 4) Sec 3.3: Is it ok to advertise an SRLB TLV without advertising the =
SR-Algorithm TLV?=C2=A0 What is the expected behavior and assumptions by th=
e receiver?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 5) Sec 3.4:=C2=A0 What happens if an SRMS Preference TLV is advertised=
 without an SR-Algorithm TLV in the same scope?=C2=A0 I see that it says &q=
uot;For the purpose of the SRMS Preference Sub-TLV advertisement, AS scope =
flooding is required.&quot; but also provides for area scope flooding.=C2=
=A0 Some words clarifying the expected behavior would be useful.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 6) Sec 5: &quot;In such case, MPLS EXP bits of the Prefix-SID are not =
preserved for<br>
&gt; the final destination (the Prefix-SID being removed).&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0I am quite startled to see an assumption that MPLS Pipe mode is being fo=
rced as part of specifying PHP mode!=C2=A0 This will also break any ECN or =
3-color marking that has affected the MPLS EXP bits.=C2=A0 I would like to =
see and understand a clear justification for why short-pipe mode is being r=
equired instead of Uniform (or up to implementation/configuration.)<wbr>.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Basically, this sentence means that transport considerations a=
re a necessary section - which is completely inappropriate in an IGP draft.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 7) Sec 6: This section defines the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV - which a=
ppears to be a way to advertise an explicit path - and has a SID/Label by w=
hich the path can be entered.=C2=A0 =C2=A0How and what state is set up by t=
he sending router to create the indicated segment is completely unclear.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0I have hunted through draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing, dra=
ft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-mpls, and draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wb=
r>routing-ldp-interop, RFC7855, and draft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-ex=
tensions.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As far as I can tell, NONE of them clearly describe t=
he details of where and why this advertising is needed.=C2=A0 Obviously, th=
is mechanism does allow the potential shortening of the MPLS label stack at=
 the cost of advertising multi-hop explicit path segments across the entire=
 area or AS.=C2=A0 There MUST be a normative description of what the sendin=
g router will do when a packet is received with the specified label.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 8) Sec 4: &quot;The Segment Routing Mapping Server, which is described=
 in [I-D.filsfils-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-interop]&quot;=C2=A0 Wher=
e precisely is an SRMS and its behavior/role actually defined?=C2=A0 draft-=
ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-ldp-interop-07 claims:&quot;SR to LDP inte=
rworking requires a SRMS as defined in [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-=
extensions].&quot; but that wouldn&#39;t be appropriate, of course, and it =
isn&#39;t there either!=C2=A0 draft-ietf-spring-conflict-<wbr>resolution-04=
 talks about SRMS, but doesn&#39;t define it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-spring=
-segment-<wbr>routing-11 mentions in Sec 3.5.1 that &quot;A Remote-Binding =
SID S advertised by the mapping server M&quot; and refers to the ldp-intero=
p draft for further details - but obviously not about an SRMS.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Minor Issues:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) In Sec 3.1, it says: &quot;The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional. It MUS=
T only be advertised once in the Router Information Opaque LSA.=C2=A0 If th=
e SID/Label Range TLV, as defined in Section 3.2, is advertised, then the S=
R-Algorithm TLV MUST<br>
&gt; also be advertised.&quot;=C2=A0 Please provide a pointer in the text t=
o the behavior for a receiving router if one or both of these are violated?=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0For the requirement to advertise the SR-Algorithm TLV, please =
clarify that this is in the same RI LSA as the SID/Label Range TLV was adve=
rtised &amp; with the same scope.=C2=A0 What does it mean, in terms of the =
receiving router, to determine that the sending router supports SR or not -=
 given the possibility of receiving other SR-related TLVS in an RI LSA with=
out getting an SR-Algorithm TLV?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) Sec 3.1: The SR-Algorithm TLV simply defines &quot;Length: Variable=
&quot;.=C2=A0 Given that advertising Algorithm 0 is required, I&#39;m fairl=
y sure that the Length has to be a minimum of 1 - and, to prevent overrun &=
amp; weird issues, let&#39;s have a reasonable maximum (for instance, 24) t=
oo.=C2=A0 It wouldn&#39;t hurt to remind readers that the length is just th=
at of the value field - though experienced OSPF implementers will know that=
.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 3) Sec 3.1 &amp; Sec 3.2 &amp; Sec 3.3: &quot;For the purpose of SR-Al=
gorithm TLV advertisement, area scope flooding is required.&quot; and &quot=
;For the purpose of SID/Label Range TLV advertisement, area scope flooding =
is required.&quot;=C2=A0 and &quot;For the purpose of SR Local Block Sub-TL=
V TLV advertisement, area scope flooding is required.&quot; Please capitali=
ze REQUIRED as per RFC 2119.=C2=A0 Otherwise, please explain behavior when =
area scope isn&#39;t used.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 4) Sec 3.2:=C2=A0 The SID/Label Range TLV doesn&#39;t indicate that in=
clude a SID/Label sub-TLV is required - but I don&#39;t understand how it c=
ould be interpreted otherwise; nor does it indicate what to do if there are=
 multiple SID/Label sub-TLVs included in a single SID/Label Range TLV. Agai=
n &quot;Length&quot; is just defined as variable.=C2=A0 In this case, it cl=
early can&#39;t be less than 11 (probably 12, assuming padding to the 32-bi=
t boundary).=C2=A0 =C2=A0It would be useful to have an upper-bound on lengt=
h, but at least here I can see the argument that meaningful flexibility is =
provided for.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 5) SID index is used without introduction in Sec 3.2.=C2=A0 It isn&#39=
;t defined in the terminology of draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-11 =
and the other uses of it in this document aren&#39;t enough to clearly defi=
ne it.=C2=A0 Please add at least a description of its meaning before use - =
in a terminology section, if necessary.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 6) Sec 3.2: &quot;The originating router advertises the following rang=
es:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Range 1: [100, 199]<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Range 2: [1000, 1099]<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Range 3: [500, 599]&quot;<br>
&gt; Please turn this into the information actually advertised - i.e.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Range 1: Range Size: 100=C2=A0 =C2=A0SID/Label sub-TLV: 1=
00=C2=A0 =3D&gt; meaning [100, 199]<br>
&gt; etc.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 7) 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV:=C2=A0 Please specify that the sender MUST=
 NOT advertise overlapping ranges &amp; how to handle the case when it does=
.=C2=A0 This is required by draft-ietf-spring-conflict-<wbr>resolution.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 8) Sec 3.3=C2=A0 SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV: The document doesn&#39=
;t specify that the SR Local Block TLV MUST include a SID/Label sub-TLV nor=
 indicate what to do if multiple are included.=C2=A0 The Length, again, isn=
&#39;t specified at all and clearly has at least a minimum.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I d=
on&#39;t see a reference to an SR Local Block or the need to advertise it i=
n draft-ietf-spring-segment-<wbr>routing-11; perhaps I missed where the req=
uirement and usage are defined?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 9) Sec 3.3: &quot;Each time a SID from the SRLB is allocated, it SHOUL=
D also be<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reported to all components...&quot;=C2=A0 Presumably, thi=
s is subjected to the normal OSPF dampening - it&#39;d be nice to note that=
 somewhere - since rapid sequential allocation may not provide the reportin=
g speed anticipated.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 10) Sec 4: &quot;AF: Address family for the prefix. Currently, the onl=
y supported<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0value is 0 for IPv4 unicast.=C2=A0 The inclu=
sion of address family in<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this TLV allows for future extension.&quot;=
=C2=A0 Could you please clarify if this is to reuse the same TLV for OSPFv3=
 so IPv6 can be supported, are you thinking of extending OSPFv2 for IPv6 pr=
efixes for some cases or something else? I think the current phrasing is li=
kely to raise questions.=C2=A0 Similarly, please define &quot;Prefix length=
: Length of the prefix&quot; clearly.=C2=A0 I really don&#39;t understand w=
hat the benefit of having a TLV that pretends to support multiple AFs but c=
an&#39;t is versus the clarity of specifying the prefix lengths.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 11) Sec 4:=C2=A0 Again &quot;Length: Variable&quot; - It should have a=
 minimum and preferable describe a function for how it is computed.=C2=A0 A=
 maximum is probably unlikely=C2=A0 with sub-TLVs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 12) Sec 4: OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV:=C2=A0 Does this TLV has any=
 meaning or action associated with it without including sub-TLVs?=C2=A0 Are=
 there mandatory sub-TLVs?=C2=A0 What is a receiving router to do with it?<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 13) Sec 5: &quot;If multiple Prefix-SIDs are advertised for the same p=
refix, the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0receiving router MUST use the first encoded SID and MAY us=
e<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0subsequent SIDs.&quot;=C2=A0 What does this even mean?=C2=
=A0 A receiving router when making the decision to use a subsequent SID is =
making a decision to not use the first encoded SID; it&#39;s not like the r=
outer is going to stick both SID/Labels onto the stack.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please =
describe this in meaningful normative terms.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 14) Sec 5:&quot; When calculating the outgoing label for the prefix, t=
he router MUST<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 take into account the E and P flags advertised by the nex=
t-hop router<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if that router advertised the SID for the prefix.=C2=A0 T=
his MUST be done<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 regardless of whether the next-hop router contributes to =
the best<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 path to the prefix.&quot;=C2=A0 First, I assume this is &=
quot;NP flag&quot; because there is no P flag.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Second - please clarify to &quot;take into account, as de=
scribed below, the E and NP flags...&quot;.=C2=A0 Third, the M flag must al=
so be taken into account - given the text later in the section.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 15) Sec 5: &quot;When a Prefix-SID is advertised in an Extended Prefix=
 Range TLV, then the value advertised in the Prefix SID Sub-TLV is interpre=
ted as a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 starting SID value.&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0This appears to con=
tradict &quot;SID/Index/Label: According to the V and L flags, it contains =
either:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A 32-bit index defining the offset i=
n the SID/Label space<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 advertised by this router.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmos=
t bits are used for<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 encoding the label value.&quot;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0I assume that what is meant by the first quote is &quot;..=
.is interpreted, if the V flag is clear, as a starting SID value, and if th=
e V flag is set, as a starting Label value.&quot;=C2=A0 Otherwise, it looks=
 like the Prefix-SID sub-TLV couldn&#39;t be included in the Extended Prefi=
x Range TLV if a label value would be used.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It would be helpful for Example 2 to show the label case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 16) Sec 6.1: &quot;aggregate IGP or TE path cost.&quot;=C2=A0 Given th=
at this is an OSPF draft, it&#39;d be helpful to indicate whether there are=
 challenges with non-comparable OSPF metrics (I&#39;m thinking about AS-ext=
ernal type 2 costs) or if the path will never include such costs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 17) Sec 6.2: &quot;a domain and hence need to be disambiguated using a=
 domain-unique Router-ID.&quot;=C2=A0 Given that the Prefix-SIDs and sub-TL=
Vs can be distributed between areas and even redistributed between protocol=
s, please clearly define what is meant by a &quot;domain&quot; or point to =
the appropriate definition.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 18) Sec 4, 5, 6:=C2=A0 Is it possible to have an OSPF Extended Prefix =
Range TLV that includes both a Prefix SID Sub-TLV and a SID/Label Binding S=
ub-TLV?=C2=A0 =C2=A0What does that mean?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; What does it mean if there are multiple prefixes described in the OSPF=
 Extended Prefix Range TLV that includes a SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV?=C2=A0=
 Does the SID/Label sub-sub-TLV indicate a single SID Index or Label that i=
s used for the single path to all those prefixes?=C2=A0 Is it the start of =
a list of SID Indices or Labels?<br>
&gt; I see that the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV can be in both the OSPF Exten=
ded Prefx Range TLV as well as the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV - but there is =
no text on differences in interpretation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 19) Sec 7.1 &amp; 7.2: Another=C2=A0 couple &quot;Length: Variable.&qu=
ot;=C2=A0 Please actually specify the value. I think that, given the paddin=
g to 32-bit alignment, there is a single correct value.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 20) Sec 7.1 and 7.2: Given that the Flag bits have exactly the same me=
aning - it&#39;d be clearer to have them defined once.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 21) Sec 8.1: &quot;An SR Mapping Server MUST use the OSPF Extended Pre=
fix Range TLV when advertising SIDs for prefixes.=C2=A0 Prefixes of differe=
nt route-types can be combined in a single OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV a=
dvertised by an SR Mapping Server.&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 So - I can&#39;t find=
 a normative definition of an SRMS to determine why it is always necessary =
to use an OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV instead of an OSPF Extended Prefix=
 TLV.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I don&#39;t see how advertising prefixes from different r=
oute-types can work unless the prefixes are adjacent, which seems likely to=
 be uncommon.=C2=A0 Perhaps what is meant is &quot;Because the OSPF Extende=
d Prefix Range TLV doesn&#39;t include a Route-Type field, as in the OSPF E=
xtended Prefix TLV, it is possible to include adjacent prefixes from differ=
ent Route-Types in the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 22) Sec 8.1: &quot;If multiple routers advertise a Prefix-SID for the =
same prefix, then<br>
&gt; the Prefix-SID MUST be the same.=C2=A0 This is required in order to al=
low traffic load-balancing when multiple equal cost paths to the destinatio=
n exist in the OSPFv2 routing domain.&quot;=C2=A0 How is this enforced?=C2=
=A0 What are the consequences of it not being conformed to?=C2=A0 This is N=
OT a protocol implementation requirement.=C2=A0 This should really be calle=
d out in a Manageability Considerations with warnings.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 23) Sec 8.2:&quot;If no Prefix-SID was advertised for the prefix in th=
e source area<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0by the router that contributes to the best p=
ath to the prefix, the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originating ABR will use the Prefix-SID adve=
rtised by any other<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0router when propagating the Prefix-SID for t=
he prefix to other<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0areas.&quot;=C2=A0 I believe that this depen=
ds on the assumption that if a Prefix-SID is advertised by any router, the =
Prefix-SID will be the same.=C2=A0 Please be explicit in this assumption, s=
ince the requirement on the network operator should be clear as well as the=
 consequences of not conforming.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 24) Sec 10:=C2=A0 The Implementation Status section should indicate th=
at it is to be removed before publication as an RFC.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Also, the =
complete implementation part seems a bit dated - given the draft&#39;s tech=
nical changes in the last 2 years.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; NITS:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 1) Sec 2.1: s/&quot;SID/Label TLV&quot;/&quot;SID/Label sub-TLV&quot;<=
br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 2) Sec 3.2:&quot;Initially, the only supported Sub-TLV is the SID/Labe=
l TLV as defined<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in Section 2.1.=C2=A0 The SID/Label advertised in the SID=
/Label TLV<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 represents the first SID/Label in the advertised range.&q=
uot;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 replace SID/Label TLV with SID/Label sub-TLV.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; 3) Sec 3.3 &amp; Sec 3.4: &quot; The SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV is =
a top-level TLV of the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770])=
.&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please correct the descriptions (many) to SR Local Bloc=
k (SRLB) Sub-TLV to SR Local Block SRLB TLV.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The same issue exi=
sts for &quot;SRMS Preference Sub-TLV&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Alia<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c19319872717f0551ec48f4--


From nobody Wed Jun 14 09:44:44 2017
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Subject: [OSPF] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the IETF.

        Title           : H-bit Support for OSPFv2
        Authors         : Keyur Patel
                          Padma Pillay-Esnault
                          Manish Bhardwaj
                          Serpil Bayraktar
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2017-06-14

Abstract:
   OSPFv3 defines an option field for router-LSAs known as a R-bit in
   RFC5340.  If the R-bit is clear, an OSPFv3 router can participate in
   OSPF topology distribution without acting as a forwarder to forward
   the transit traffic.  In such cases, an OSPF router would only accept
   traffic intended for local delivery.  This draft defines R-bit
   functionality for OSPFv2 defined in RFC2328.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jun 14 12:48:43 2017
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From nobody Wed Jun 14 14:34:42 2017
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From: Greg Shepherd <gjshep@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 14:34:31 -0700
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Subject: [OSPF] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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BIER, OSPF

At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to WGLC for
some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a
process to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move the
work from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators is
that RFC status was more important than track, and we won't be able to meet
our charter requirements to change track without deployment experience and
operator support.

This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/

WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of the
work.

Thanks,
Greg
(BIER Chairs)

--001a1149da5a551b580551f25128
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">BIER, =
OSPF</span></div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><div><span =
style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div>At BIER WG meetin=
g, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to=C2=A0</span><span class=
=3D"gmail-m_-2082724403562994580gmail-m_-8927035794647631120gmail-m_-603335=
1764587737999gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">WGLC</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0for some of our docs. =
We learned that even once published the IESG has a process to change the tr=
ack of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move the work from Informational=
 to Standards track. The feedback from operators is that RFC status was mor=
e important than track, and we won&#39;t be able to meet our charter requir=
ements to change track without deployment experience and operator support.<=
/span><div style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><div><br></div><div>Thi=
s email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:</div><div><a hre=
f=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/</a=
><br></div><div><br></div><div>WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSP=
F WGs due to the scope of the work.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><=
div>Greg</div><div>(BIER Chairs)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><=
/div>

--001a1149da5a551b580551f25128--


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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
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Subject: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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As is customary, I have done my AD review
of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03.
First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert, Luis, and
Luay - for their work on this useful document.

I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the draft can progress.

Major:

1) First, the draft talks about what information is sent - but nothing
about how it is to be understood or used.  That'd be ok if there were a
clear reference to a document that discussed the related procedures.  A
quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 seems that it may be the
right place to start - but it's procedures are BGP-focused and while there
are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well.
For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color value expected to
represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?  Can a BGP route with a
particular color extended community then have the OSPF tunnel to use
selected from only those tunnels with the same color?  What does the Color
TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?  Sec 7 of
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 ("However, suppose that one of the TLVs in
U2's Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contains the Color Sub-TLV.  In that
case, packet P SHOULD
   NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1 is
   carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2's
   Color Sub-TLV.") doesn't seem to strictly apply.

Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings, and
that is all this draft currently has.

2) Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsulation Sub-TLV and
Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 - but that
draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA registry for
additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and contents of
the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.   I'm nearly certain that you mean
that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (*does variable length
fields based upon the allocated type cause issues for OSPF sub-TLV
parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs defined in the
relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no reference to the
registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the future.

3) It is unfortunate that Geneve, which is the agreed encapsulation for
NVO3, is not included in the set of tunnels but VXLAN-GPE, which is not
going to be a standard, is.
I know this is duplicating what is in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 but
it emphasizes the need to assume additional Tunnel Types and related
Encapsulation Sub-TLVs will be defined.

4) Sec 4: Is there a reason to create a new IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Types
registry instead of reusing BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types
(
https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types)?
The latter is FCFS and the proposed registry is Standards Action.   There
are already differences and collisions between the two (i.e. value 15).
What would happen if an Encapsulation Sub-TLV needed to include a Tunnel
Type? Which registry would it pull from? Would the value used depend on the
protocol it was signaled in?

5) I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has to be a normative reference.

6) Given that some of the references are to in progress documents for the
tunnel types, is it expected that the values will correspond to future
versions or are they nailed to this particular version or something else?


Nits:

a) Sec 1:"Partial deployment of IPv6 in IPv4 networks or IPv6 in IPv4
      networks as described in [RFC5565]"
s/IPv6 in IPv4/IPv4 in IPv6 for one of the two

Regards,
Alia

--001a114b41306d691f0551f3766a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>As is customary, I have done my AD review of=C2=A0dra=
ft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03.</div><div>First, I would like to thank t=
he authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert, Luis, and Luay - for their work on this=
 useful document.</div><div><br></div><div>I do have a few concerns that ne=
ed addressing before the draft can progress.</div><div><br></div><div>Major=
:</div><div><br></div><div>1) First, the draft talks about what information=
 is sent - but nothing about how it is to be understood or used.=C2=A0 That=
&#39;d be ok if there were a clear reference to a document that discussed t=
he related procedures.=C2=A0 A quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0=
6 seems that it may be the right place to start - but it&#39;s procedures a=
re BGP-focused and while there are many similarities, there may be interest=
ing differences as well. =C2=A0</div><div>For instance, for the Color sub-T=
LV, is the 4 byte color value expected to represent the same meaning in OSP=
F as in BGP?=C2=A0 Can a BGP route with a particular color extended communi=
ty then have the OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with t=
he same color?=C2=A0 What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?=
=C2=A0 Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06=C2=A0(&quot;However, suppos=
e that one of the TLVs in U2&#39;s Tunnel Encapsulation=C2=A0attribute cont=
ains the Color Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In that case, packet P SHOULD<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1 is<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2=
&#39;s<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Color Sub-TLV.&quot;) doesn&#39;t seem to strictly a=
pply.</div><div><br></div><div>Semantics and behavior need to be specified =
- not just the encodings, and that is all this draft currently has.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>2) Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsu=
lation Sub-TLV and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encap=
s-06 - but that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA =
registry for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format an=
d contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type. =C2=A0 I&#39;m nearly=
 certain that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (=
<i>does variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues f=
or OSPF sub-TLV parsing???</i>) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs def=
ined in the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no refer=
ence to the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the =
future.</div><div><br></div><div>3) It is unfortunate that Geneve, which is=
 the agreed encapsulation for NVO3, is not included in the set of tunnels b=
ut VXLAN-GPE, which is not going to be a standard, is.</div><div>I know thi=
s is duplicating what is in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 but it emphasiz=
es the need to assume additional Tunnel Types and related Encapsulation Sub=
-TLVs will be defined.</div><div><br></div><div>4) Sec 4: Is there a reason=
 to create a new IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Types registry instead of reusing=
 BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types (<a href=3D"https://www.ia=
na.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types">https:=
//www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types=
</a>)?=C2=A0 The latter is FCFS and the proposed registry is Standards Acti=
on. =C2=A0 There are already differences and collisions between the two (i.=
e. value 15).</div><div>What would happen if an Encapsulation Sub-TLV neede=
d to include a Tunnel Type? Which registry would it pull from? Would the va=
lue used depend on the protocol it was signaled in?<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>5)=C2=A0I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has to be a normative reference.<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>6) Given that some of the references are to in =
progress documents for the tunnel types, is it expected that the values wil=
l correspond to future versions or are they nailed to this particular versi=
on or something else?</div><div><br><br>Nits:</div><div><br></div><div>a) S=
ec 1:&quot;Partial deployment of IPv6 in IPv4 networks or IPv6 in IPv4<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 networks as described in [RFC5565]&quot;<br></div><div=
>s/IPv6 in IPv4/IPv4 in IPv6 for one of the two=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><=
div>Regards,</div><div>Alia</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

--001a114b41306d691f0551f3766a--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 18:37:43 +0000
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Balaji Ganesh (balagane)" <balagane@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] RFC 3101 NSSA/External Route preference clarification
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Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 18:37:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] RFC 3101 NSSA/External Route preference clarification
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 12:17:05 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Acee, can you refer to more specific section in  https://www.ietf.org/id/
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt>
draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt>
<https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt> ? I
don't think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 in the same subdomain
would ever share labels ...  I sent the conceptual model on the AD review
for -architecture that all drafts follow (as far I understood/helped
writing them) ...

--- tony

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Greg, Authors,
>
> I support publication. Also, I have two comments.
>
>    1. It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standards track whil=
e
> the architecture and encapsulations are experimental.
>    2. The OSPF encoding will not support the second example in
> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt. In
> this example, the BSL 256 and 512 are intermixed. While with the encoding=
,
> they would need to be two separate ranges of labels.
>
> I also have some editorial comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to th=
e
> authors.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Shepherd <
> gjshep@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> To: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
>
> BIER, OSPF
>
> At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to WGLC=
 for
> some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a
> process to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move t=
he
> work from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators i=
s
> that RFC status was more important than track, and we won't be able to me=
et
> our charter requirements to change track without deployment experience an=
d
> operator support.
>
> This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/
>
> WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of the
> work.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
> (BIER Chairs)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>
>


--=20
*We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could pr=
oduce
the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
that is not true.*
=E2=80=94Robert Wilensky

--94eb2c0df41c95ce86055240df9c
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Acee, can you refer to more specific section in=C2=A0<span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">=
=C2=A0</span><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14=
px"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-0=
7.txt">https://www.ietf.org/id/</a></span></font><font face=3D"Calibri, san=
s-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/=
draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt"><wbr>draft-ietf-bier-mpls-<wbr>e=
ncapsulation-07.txt</a></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf=
-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt" target=3D"_blank"></a></font>=C2=A0? I don=
&#39;t think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 in the same subdomain =
would ever share labels ...=C2=A0 I sent the conceptual model on the AD rev=
iew for -architecture that all drafts follow (as far I understood/helped wr=
iting them) ...=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>--- tony=C2=A0</div></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 1=
1:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@ci=
sco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Greg, Authors,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I support publication. Also, I have two comments.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A01. It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standar=
ds track while the architecture and encapsulations are experimental.=C2=A0<=
/div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A02. The OSPF encoding will not support the second example =
in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulati=
on-07.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/<wbr>draft-ietf-bier-m=
pls-<wbr>encapsulation-07.txt</a>. In this example, the BSL 256 and 512 are=
 intermixed.
 While with the encoding, they would need to be two separate ranges of labe=
ls.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also have some editorial comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to=
 the authors. =C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"m_-7996471188615554808OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
er-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on beh=
alf of Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
jshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5=
:34 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bie=
r@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;, OSPF WG List &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bi=
er-ospf-bier-<wbr>extensions-05<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"m_-7996471188615554808MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"=
 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">BIER, OSPF</span></div>
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to=C2=A0<=
/span><span class=3D"m_-7996471188615554808gmail-m_-2082724403562994580gmai=
l-m_-8927035794647631120gmail-m_-6033351764587737999gmail-il" style=3D"font=
-size:12.800000190734863px">WGLC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000019=
0734863px">=C2=A0for
 some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a proce=
ss to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move the work=
 from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators is that=
 RFC status was more important than
 track, and we won&#39;t be able to meet our charter requirements to change=
 track without deployment experience and operator support.</span>
<div style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-=
extensions/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-=
ietf-bier-ospf-bier-<wbr>extensions/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of =
the work.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div>(BIER Chairs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></span>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/bier</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face=3D"georgia, se=
rif"><i>We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards c=
ould produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet=
, we know that is not true.</i></font></span><i><font face=3D"garamond, ser=
if"><br></font></i></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">=
<font face=3D"times new roman, serif">=E2=80=94Robert Wilensky</font></span=
><br></div></div></div>
</div>

--94eb2c0df41c95ce86055240df9c--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
CC: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:17:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 19:21:26 -0700
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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The example is correct even under the assumption label values  L1-L11 are
ordered.  Encoding says for subdomain label range encodings in 2.2:

It MAY appear multiple times in the BIER Sub-TLV.


That aligns as well with the conceptual model I sent out ...


ISIS and OSPF encodings are 100% alligned ...

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:12 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Tony,
>
> I=E2=80=99m not saying they that BSL 256 and 512 bit strings would share =
any
> labels. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that the OSPF encoding (didn=E2=80=99t=
 look at IS-IS)
> doesn=E2=80=99t allow them to share the same label range yet the example =
in the
> MPLS encapsulation draft implies that they are interleaved by SD in the
> same label range. Here is the second example:
>
>
>       L1:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 0.
>
>       L2:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 1.
>
>       L3:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 2.
>
>       L4:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 3.
>
>       L5:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 0.
>
>       L6:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 1.
>
>       L7:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 0.
>
>       L8:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 1.
>
>       L9:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 2.
>
>       L10:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 3.
>
>       L11:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 0.
>
>       L12:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 1.
>
> Note that they are ordered by SD =E2=80=93 not BSL. However, that the OSP=
F
> encoding is BSL specific. So, a label range would only include the SD/SI
> labels for a single BSL.
>
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |              Type             |             Length            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |Lbl Range Size |                Label Range Base               |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    | BS Length |                    Reserved                       |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
> I think the example should be updated to match the protocol encoding.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
> Date: Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 3:17 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org=
>,
> OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
>
> Acee, can you refer to more specific section in  https://www.ietf.org/id/
> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt>dr
> aft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt
> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt>
> <https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt> ? I
> don't think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 in the same subdomain
> would ever share labels ...  I sent the conceptual model on the AD review
> for -architecture that all drafts follow (as far I understood/helped
> writing them) ...
>
> --- tony
>
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg, Authors,
>>
>> I support publication. Also, I have two comments.
>>
>>    1. It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standards track
>> while the architecture and encapsulations are experimental.
>>    2. The OSPF encoding will not support the second example in
>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt. In
>> this example, the BSL 256 and 512 are intermixed. While with the encodin=
g,
>> they would need to be two separate ranges of labels.
>>
>> I also have some editorial comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to t=
he
>> authors.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Shepherd <
>> gjshep@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM
>> To: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
>>
>> BIER, OSPF
>>
>> At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to WGL=
C for
>> some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a
>> process to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move =
the
>> work from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators =
is
>> that RFC status was more important than track, and we won't be able to m=
eet
>> our charter requirements to change track without deployment experience a=
nd
>> operator support.
>>
>> This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/
>>
>> WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of th=
e
>> work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Greg
>> (BIER Chairs)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could =
produce
> the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
> that is not true.*
> =E2=80=94Robert Wilensky
>
>


--=20
*We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could pr=
oduce
the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know
that is not true.*
=E2=80=94Robert Wilensky

--94eb2c195af22ead79055246cdd8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The example is correct =
even under the assumption label values =C2=A0L1-L11 are ordered.=C2=A0 Enco=
ding says for subdomain label range encodings in 2.2:</div><div><br></div><=
div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333333015441895px;ma=
rgin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">It MAY appear multiple tim=
es in the BIER Sub-TLV.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.333333015441895px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><=
br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333333015441895=
px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">That aligns as well w=
ith the conceptual model I sent out ... </pre></div><div><br></div><div>ISI=
S and OSPF encodings are 100% alligned ...=C2=A0</div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 6:12 PM,=
 Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
Hi Tony,=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
I=E2=80=99m not saying they that BSL 256 and 512 bit strings would share an=
y labels. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that the OSPF encoding (didn=E2=80=99t=
 look at IS-IS) doesn=E2=80=99t allow them to share the same label range ye=
t the example in the MPLS encapsulation draft implies that they
 are interleaved by SD in the same label range. Here is the second example:=
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L1: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 0.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L2: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 1.</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L3: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 2.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L4: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 3.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L5: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 0.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L6: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 1.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L7: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 0.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L8: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 1.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L9: =C2=A0 corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 2.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L10: =C2=A0corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 3.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L11: =C2=A0corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 0.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 L12: =C2=A0corr=
esponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 1.</font></div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
Note that they are ordered by SD =E2=80=93 not BSL. However, that the OSPF =
encoding is BSL specific. So, a label range would only include the SD/SI la=
bels for a single BSL.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px"><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px"=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</span>0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3<=
/font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6=
 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Length =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0|</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0|Lbl Range Size | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Label Range Base =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0| BS Length | =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Reserved =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>=
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<wbr>-+-+-+</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">I think the example=C2=A0should be updated to m=
atch the protocol encoding.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Thanks,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Courier">Acee=C2=A0</font></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14p=
x">
<br>
</div>
<span id=3D"m_-2562121615378578388OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"color:rgb(=
0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Tony Przygienda &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 3:17=
 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Acee Lindem &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;,
 OSPF WG List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-iet=
f-bier-ospf-bier-<wbr>extensions-05<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"m_-2562121615378578388MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"=
 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Acee, can you refer to more specific section in=C2=A0<span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">=
=C2=A0</span><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14p=
x"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07=
.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/</a></span></font><font fac=
e=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><a href=3D"https://=
www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt" target=3D"_blank=
">dr<wbr>aft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulati<wbr>on-07.txt</a></span><a href=3D"=
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt" target=
=3D"_blank"></a></font>=C2=A0?
 I don&#39;t think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 in the same subd=
omain would ever share labels ...=C2=A0 I sent the conceptual model on the =
AD review for -architecture that all drafts follow (as far I understood/hel=
ped writing them) ...=C2=A0
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--- tony=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (a=
cee) <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Greg, Authors,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I support publication. Also, I have two comments.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A01. It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standar=
ds track while the architecture and encapsulations are experimental.=C2=A0<=
/div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A02. The OSPF encoding will not support the second example =
in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulati=
on-07.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/id/dra<wbr>ft-ietf-bier-m=
pls-encapsulatio<wbr>n-07.txt</a>. In this example,
 the BSL 256 and 512 are intermixed. While with the encoding, they would ne=
ed to be two separate ranges of labels.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also have some editorial comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to=
 the authors. =C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"m_-2562121615378578388m_-7996471188615554808OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTIO=
N">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>BIER &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
er-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on beh=
alf of Greg Shepherd &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
jshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gjshep@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gjshep@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5=
:34 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:bier@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bie=
r@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bier@ietf.org</a>&gt;, OSPF WG List &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bi=
er-ospf-bier-exte<wbr>nsions-05<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-2562121615378578388h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"m_-2562121615378578388m_-7996471188615554808MAC_OUTLOOK_A=
TTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5=
;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">BIER, OSPF</span></div>
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to=C2=A0<=
/span><span class=3D"m_-2562121615378578388m_-7996471188615554808gmail-m_-2=
082724403562994580gmail-m_-8927035794647631120gmail-m_-6033351764587737999g=
mail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">WGLC</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0for
 some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a proce=
ss to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move the work=
 from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators is that=
 RFC status was more important than
 track, and we won&#39;t be able to meet our charter requirements to change=
 track without deployment experience and operator support.</span>
<div style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-=
extensions/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d<wbr>oc/draft-=
ietf-bier-ospf-bier-e<wbr>xtensions/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of =
the work.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div>(BIER Chairs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
BIER mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:BIER@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">BIER@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/bier</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class=3D"m_-2562121615378578388gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmai=
l_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face=3D"georgia,ser=
if"><i>We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards co=
uld produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet,=
 we know that is not true.</i></font></span><i><font face=3D"garamond,serif=
"><br>
</font></i></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face=3D"times new r=
oman,serif">=E2=80=94Robert Wilensky</font></span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></span>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><font face=3D"georgia, seri=
f"><i>We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards cou=
ld produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, =
we know that is not true.</i></font></span><i><font face=3D"garamond, serif=
"><br></font></i></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><f=
ont face=3D"times new roman, serif">=E2=80=94Robert Wilensky</font></span><=
br></div></div></div>
</div>

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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:54:22 +0200
Cc: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Hi Acee,

Thanks for the comments.

The ordering is not by SD, but SI.

The text below this example says the following:

"The first label in the range could correspond to SI 0, and the second =
to SI 1."


The =E2=80=9Ckey=E2=80=9D for the Label range is {SD, BSL}, and the =
index into the range is SI. So in the example below you see a Label =
range of 4 labels (L1-L4) for {0,256}, 2 labels (L5-L6) for {0,512}, =
etc=E2=80=A6.

Does that clarify it?

Thx,

Ice.


> On 19 Jun 2017, at 03:12, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Tony,=20
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m not saying they that BSL 256 and 512 bit strings would =
share any labels. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that the OSPF encoding =
(didn=E2=80=99t look at IS-IS) doesn=E2=80=99t allow them to share the =
same label range yet the example in the MPLS encapsulation draft implies =
that they are interleaved by SD in the same label range. Here is the =
second example:
>=20
>=20
>       L1:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 0.
>=20
>       L2:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 1.
>=20
>       L3:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 2.
>=20
>       L4:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 3.
>=20
>       L5:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 0.
>=20
>       L6:   corresponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 1.
>=20
>       L7:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 0.
>=20
>       L8:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 1.
>=20
>       L9:   corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 2.
>=20
>       L10:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 3.
>=20
>       L11:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 0.
>=20
>       L12:  corresponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 1.
>=20
> Note that they are ordered by SD =E2=80=93 not BSL. However, that the =
OSPF encoding is BSL specific. So, a label range would only include the =
SD/SI labels for a single BSL.=20
>=20
>     0                   1                   2                   3
>     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |              Type             |             Length            |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    |Lbl Range Size |                Label Range Base               |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>    | BS Length |                    Reserved                       |
>    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=20
> I think the example should be updated to match the protocol encoding.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee=20
>=20
> From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
> Date: Sunday, June 18, 2017 at 3:17 PM
> To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> Cc: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" =
<bier@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
>=20
> Acee, can you refer to more specific section in  =
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt ? I =
don't think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 in the same =
subdomain would ever share labels ...  I sent the conceptual model on =
the AD review for -architecture that all drafts follow (as far I =
understood/helped writing them) ...=20
>=20
> --- tony=20
>=20
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
> Hi Greg, Authors,=20
>=20
> I support publication. Also, I have two comments.=20
>=20
>    1. It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standards track =
while the architecture and encapsulations are experimental.=20
>    2. The OSPF encoding will not support the second example in =
https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt. In =
this example, the BSL 256 and 512 are intermixed. While with the =
encoding, they would need to be two separate ranges of labels.=20
>=20
> I also have some editorial comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to =
the authors. =20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee=20
>=20
> From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Greg Shepherd =
<gjshep@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> To: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
> Subject: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
>=20
> BIER, OSPF
>=20
> At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in Chicago, we decided to move forward to =
WGLC for some of our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG =
has a process to change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to =
move the work from Informational to Standards track. The feedback from =
operators is that RFC status was more important than track, and we won't =
be able to meet our charter requirements to change track without =
deployment experience and operator support.
>=20
> This email starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions/
>=20
> WGLC to run in parallel in both BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of =
the work.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Greg
> (BIER Chairs)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards =
could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the =
Internet, we know that is not true.
> =E2=80=94Robert Wilensky
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
> BIER@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier




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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Acee,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks for the comments.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The ordering is not by =
SD, but SI.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
text below this example says the following:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">"The first label in the range could =
correspond to SI 0, and the second to SI 1."</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
=E2=80=9Ckey=E2=80=9D for the Label range is {SD, BSL}, and the index =
into the range is SI. So in the example below you see a Label range of 4 =
labels (L1-L4) for {0,256}, 2 labels (L5-L6) for {0,512}, =
etc=E2=80=A6.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Does that clarify it?</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thx,</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Ice.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">On 19 Jun 2017, at 03:12, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" class=3D"">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi Tony,&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m not saying they that BSL 256 and 512 bit strings =
would share any labels. What I=E2=80=99m saying is that the OSPF =
encoding (didn=E2=80=99t look at IS-IS) doesn=E2=80=99t allow them to =
share the same label range yet the example in the MPLS encapsulation =
draft&nbsp;implies that they&nbsp;are interleaved by SD in the same =
label range. Here is the second example:<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L1: &nbsp; corresponding to SD 0, BSL =
256, SI 0.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L2: &nbsp; =
corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 1.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; L3: &nbsp; corresponding to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 2.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L4: &nbsp; corresponding =
to SD 0, BSL 256, SI 3.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; L5: &nbsp; corresponding to SD 0, BSL 512, SI 0.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L6: &nbsp; corresponding to SD 0, BSL =
512, SI 1.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L7: &nbsp; =
corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 0.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; L8: &nbsp; corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 1.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L9: &nbsp; corresponding =
to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 2.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; L10: &nbsp;corresponding to SD 1, BSL 256, SI 3.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L11: &nbsp;corresponding to SD 1, BSL =
512, SI 0.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; L12: =
&nbsp;corresponding to SD 1, BSL 512, SI 1.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Note that they are ordered by SD =E2=80=93 not BSL. However, =
that the OSPF encoding is BSL specific. So, a label range would only =
include the SD/SI labels for a single BSL.&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;0 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; 3<br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 =
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br=
 class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;| &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;Type &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Length &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br=
 class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;|Lbl Range Size | &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Label Range Base &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<br class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br=
 class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;| BS Length | &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Reserved &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; =
&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D"">I think the example should be updated to =
match the protocol encoding.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br =
class=3D"">Acee&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">From:&nbsp;Tony =
Przygienda &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tonysietf@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">tonysietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Sunday, =
June 18, 2017 at 3:17 PM<br class=3D"">To:&nbsp;Acee Lindem =
&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;<br class=3D"">Cc:&nbsp;"gjshep@gmail.com" =
&lt;gjshep@gmail.com&gt;, "bier@ietf.org" =
&lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;,&nbsp;OSPF WG List &lt;ospf@ietf.org&gt;<br =
class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;Re: [Bier] WGLC: =
draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Acee,=
 can you refer to more specific section =
in&nbsp;&nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-0=
7.txt&nbsp;?&nbsp;I don't think that it is assumed that BSL 256 and 512 =
in the same subdomain would ever share labels ... &nbsp;I sent =
the&nbsp;conceptual model on the AD review for -architecture that all =
drafts follow (as far I understood/helped writing them) ...&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">--- tony&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">On =
Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Acee Lindem =
(acee)&nbsp;&lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;&nbsp;wrote:<br class=3D"">Hi Greg, =
Authors,&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I support publication. Also, =
I have two comments.&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;1. =
It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standards track while the =
architecture and encapsulations are experimental.&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;2. The OSPF encoding will not support the second =
example =
in&nbsp;https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-bier-mpls-encapsulation-07.txt.=
 In this example,&nbsp;the BSL 256 and 512 are intermixed. While with =
the encoding, they would need to be two&nbsp;separate ranges of =
labels.&nbsp;<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I also have some editorial =
comments but I=E2=80=99ll just pass them to the authors.&nbsp;&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">Acee&nbsp;<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">From:&nbsp;BIER &lt;bier-bounces@ietf.org&gt; =
on behalf of Greg Shepherd &lt;gjshep@gmail.com&gt;<br =
class=3D"">Reply-To:&nbsp;"gjshep@gmail.com" &lt;gjshep@gmail.com&gt;<br =
class=3D"">Date:&nbsp;Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:34 PM<br =
class=3D"">To:&nbsp;"bier@ietf.org" &lt;bier@ietf.org&gt;, OSPF WG List =
&lt;ospf@ietf.org&gt;<br class=3D"">Subject:&nbsp;[Bier] WGLC: =
draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">BIER,=
 OSPF<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">At BIER WG meeting, IETF97 in =
Chicago, we decided to move forward to&nbsp;WGLC&nbsp;for&nbsp;some of =
our docs. We learned that even once published the IESG has a process to =
change the track of the RFC if the WG makes the case to move the work =
from&nbsp;Informational to Standards track. The feedback from operators =
is that RFC status was more important than&nbsp;track, and we won't be =
able to meet our charter requirements to change track without deployment =
experience and operator support.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">This email =
starts a two week timer for feedback on the draft:<br =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-exte=
nsions/<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">WGLC to run in parallel in both =
BIER and OSPF WGs due to the scope of the work.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Thanks,<br class=3D"">Greg<br class=3D"">(BIER Chairs)<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">BIER mailing list<br class=3D"">BIER@ietf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">--&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"">We=E2=80=99ve heard that a million monkeys at a million =
keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks =
to the Internet, we know that is not true.<br class=3D"">=E2=80=94Robert =
Wilensky<br class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">BIER mailing list<br class=3D"">BIER@ietf.org<br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><span><img =
height=3D"278" width=3D"569" apple-inline=3D"yes" =
id=3D"6BC682FA-B2B9-45A4-98AA-58DC75DDA9CB" apple-width=3D"yes" =
apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:6D5DA0C0-E3D6-4998-A2B2-FBE7253DB66D@cisco.com" =
class=3D""></span><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <ice@cisco.com>
CC: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>, "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:57:16 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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[Long delayed response.]

Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the
per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.  And some
come down to questions for timer granularity.

The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a boolean
that says "I'm using BFD or not".

Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the sessions
don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD session
to use?  

The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if different
parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.  However,
BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may spring
forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
"configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang model
doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on".

Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better sense.

To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were using
BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one BFD
session is formed using the most aggressive timers.

I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have been
prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different timing
requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to Down
when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to renegotiate to
the less aggressive timers.

-- Jeff






On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier this is pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when not all applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e.g. Go with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authentication parameters and having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc is not intuitive. And what do we do if applications have different BFD authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD authentication parms were better off in BFD. And once we did that, the timer/multiplier followed....
> 
> I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.
> 
> Regards,
> Reshad (as individual contributor).
> 
> From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net<mailto:jhaas@juniper.net>>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
> Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
> Resent-To: <vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>, Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>, <santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>, <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM
> 
> Resending with correct BFD WG address.
> 
> On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Agree with Acee's assessment. After much debate, we decided that we should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and have any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This makes sense specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jeff,
> 
> At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model (ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. However, after much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we agreed to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD within the OSPF and IS-IS models.
> 
> We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR and Juniper JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the consensus was to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The heuristics to determine what parameters to use when the same BFD endpoint was configured with different parameters in different protocols were proprietary and somewhat of a hack.
> 
> I may have not remembered all the details so I'd encourage others to chime in.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mahesh Jethanandani
> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 


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From: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:44:07 -0400
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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> It is somewhat strange to make protocol drafts standards track while 
> the architecture and encapsulations are experimental. 

I believe the documents are all supposed to be Experimental. However, 
this is not necessarily reflected correctly on the first page of each draft.

> The second example in the MPLS encapsulation draft implies a single 
> contiguous range of labels when, in fact, it must be encoded as 4 
> separate label ranges in the OSPF draft. 

That implication is unintended, as there is no suggestion that the 
labels L1, ..., L12 are successive numeric values.  At least, there was 
no intent to suggest that.  I can add a sentence to make that clearer.

> I think It would be good then to tie the IGP encodings to the two 
> examples.

I think it is appropriate in that example to point out that twelve 
labels must be allocated, each corresponding to a different <SD, BDL, 
SI> triple.  How those twelve labels get signaled is outside the scope 
of the encapsulation spec, and is totally a matter for the signaling 
documents to address.


From nobody Mon Jun 19 14:52:35 2017
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>, "gjshep@gmail.com" <gjshep@gmail.com>,  "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "ospf@ietf.org" <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:52:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] WGLC: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-05
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
CC: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 22:10:43 +0000
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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org>
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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:11:25 -0700
Cc: Reshad Rahman <rrahman@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>,  Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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> On Jun 19, 2017, at 11:57 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
> [Long delayed response.]
>=20
> Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the
> per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.  And =
some
> come down to questions for timer granularity.
>=20
> The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a =
boolean
> that says "I'm using BFD or not".
>=20
> Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the =
sessions
> don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD =
session
> to use? =20

The issue that I hear most is the timer granularity. Is there something =
else?

>=20
> The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
> to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if =
different
> parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.  =
However,
> BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may =
spring
> forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
> "configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang =
model
> doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on=E2=80=9D.

The idea is that a BFD session is configured a priori and before a IGP =
session is configured with the most aggressive timer. IGP sessions then =
refer to the BGP session configured. If a IGP session is added that =
requires a more aggressive timer, we would have to renegotiate the more =
aggressive timer value.
=20
>=20
> Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better =
sense.
>=20
> To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were =
using
> BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
> configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one =
BFD
> session is formed using the most aggressive timers.

That is what we are suggesting also.

>=20
> I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there =
have been
> prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different =
timing
> requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
> protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to =
Down
> when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to =
renegotiate to
> the less aggressive timers.

A BFD session would fail more likely because there is a real network =
failure than because the timer was more aggressive than what IGP had =
requested.=20

>=20
> -- Jeff
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) =
wrote:
>> We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the =
applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier this =
is pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when =
not all applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session =
(e.g. Go with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at =
authentication parameters and having BFD authentication parms in =
OSPF/ISIS etc is not intuitive. And what do we do if applications have =
different BFD authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD =
authentication parms were better off in BFD. And once we did that, the =
timer/multiplier followed....
>>=20
>> I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we =
went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> Reshad (as individual contributor).
>>=20
>> From: Mahesh Jethanandani =
<mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
>> Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM
>> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
>> Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net<mailto:jhaas@juniper.net>>, OSPF =
WG List <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>, =
"draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>" =
<draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>>, =
"draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>" =
<draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>>, =
"rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>" =
<rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
>> Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
>> Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
>> Resent-To: <vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>, =
Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, =
<mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>, =
<santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>, =
<gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
>> Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM
>>=20
>> Resending with correct BFD WG address.
>>=20
>> On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani =
<mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Agree with Acee's assessment. After much debate, we decided that we =
should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and =
have any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This =
makes sense specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.
>>=20
>> Cheers.
>>=20
>> On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) =
<acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi Jeff,
>>=20
>> At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to =
provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model =
(ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. However, =
after much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we =
agreed to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD =
within the OSPF and IS-IS models.
>>=20
>> We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR and =
Juniper JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the =
consensus was to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The =
heuristics to determine what parameters to use when the same BFD =
endpoint was configured with different parameters in different protocols =
were proprietary and somewhat of a hack.
>>=20
>> I may have not remembered all the details so I'd encourage others to =
chime in.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>=20
>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Mahesh Jethanandani
>> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com




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To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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--_000_D56E03BFB5CD5aceeciscocom_--


From nobody Tue Jun 20 07:07:53 2017
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:16:39 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: Reshad Rahman <rrahman@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>,  Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Mahesh,

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 03:11:25PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
> > On Jun 19, 2017, at 11:57 AM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> > Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the sessions
> > don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD session
> > to use?  
> 
> The issue that I hear most is the timer granularity. Is there something else?

Potentially mode (async vs. echo) and authentication.  However, I believe
timer granularity is the biggest one.

> > The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
> > to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if different
> > parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.  However,
> > BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may spring
> > forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
> > "configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang model
> > doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on”.
> 
> The idea is that a BFD session is configured a priori and before a IGP session is configured with the most aggressive timer. IGP sessions then refer to the BGP session configured. If a IGP session is added that requires a more aggressive timer, we would have to renegotiate the more aggressive timer value.

Consider a broadcast network segment such as Ethernet.
Consider a few dozen routers on such a segment.

Is it your expectation that an IGP would require each of those routers to be
manually configured in the Yang module a priori?  That is, after all, much
of the point of an IGP: automatic discovery.

> > Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better sense.
> > 
> > To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were using
> > BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
> > configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one BFD
> > session is formed using the most aggressive timers.
> 
> That is what we are suggesting also.

The distinguishing point is configuration vs. operational state.  The
current model doesn't permit more than one set of parameters to be
provisioned even if the implementation may choose to instantiate exactly one
session.

> > I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have been
> > prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different timing
> > requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
> > protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to Down
> > when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to renegotiate to
> > the less aggressive timers.
> 
> A BFD session would fail more likely because there is a real network failure than because the timer was more aggressive than what IGP had requested. 

Please note that I raise this point mostly because of prior discussion.  I'm
well aware of the headaches this currently causes:

Different protocols have different survivability requirements.  An IGP may
very well want sub-second timers, potentially for repair behaviors.  BGP may
want fast failover, but may be fine with second level granularity.  This is
particularly true since the cost of too aggressively flapping BGP is of
significantly greater impact to the network and the router.

But moving to what *is* rather than what should be, if there are two
different timing setups for the same endpoint: If you deprovision the more
aggressive timer, the session should likely renegotiate to the less
aggressive one rather than drop.

-- Jeff


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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:20:56 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Acee,

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:10:43PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> I don’t really feel there is a strong requirement to support different
> timers values per protocol even though several implementations allow
> different protocol specific values to be configured (with varying
> behaviors). 
> 
> If there were such a requirement, I would think it would be better
> satisfied by extending the BFD model session key with an additional
> identifier, e.g., <interface/dst-ip/instance>.

I suspect multi-instancing may be where this conversation goes.

> IMO, this would be
> preferable to allowing the details of BFD to permeate into all the other
> protocol models. This would require configuration of the instance rather
> than a boolean in the protocols.

My lingering concern is whether the client protocol may have preferences
about what session to use when such multi-instancing is permitted.
Minimally this would require some sort of Yang reference to the specific
instance.

As I'm noting in the other response, do we really expect BFD Yang model
users to pre-provision every single OSPF/ISIS adjacency in the config
stanza?  Likely, no.

What I tend to expect is a template being used for a service profile.  We
don't currently have such a thing.

> Acee 

-- Jeff


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
CC: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:14:28 +0000
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
CC: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:18:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
CC: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:25:12 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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From nobody Tue Jun 20 07:50:10 2017
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:58:56 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Les,

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 02:25:12PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) wrote:
> > Different protocols have different survivability requirements.  An IGP may
> > very well want sub-second timers, potentially for repair behaviors.  BGP may
> > want fast failover, but may be fine with second level granularity.  This is
> > particularly true since the cost of too aggressively flapping BGP is of
> > significantly greater impact to the network and the router.
> > 
> [Les:] The real issues here are false failures and proper use of dampening. No protocol - not even an IGP - wants to flap unnecessarily. If timers are set so aggressively that false failures are reported this is BAD.
> Even worse is failure to dampen so that we get multiple false failures in a short period of time.
> 
> Arguing that the right way to solve this problem is to increase the number of sessions using different timer granularity seems likely to make any problems worse as you have now increased the number of BFD sessions with the associated costs.

I'm mildly amused you seem to think I'm not considering the cost of
additional sessions in the scaling matrix. :-)

I do think you're conflating the survivability requirements vs. timer
granularity.  However, I agree that the most commonly deployed form is to go
for single session with the most stable aggressive timer.

Again, the reason I raise this is there has been discussion regarding
behavior for different client timing requirements.  There are a few options
for how this is likely to play out in terms of BFD protocol implementation.
However, configuration and operational models tend to evolve much more
slowly.  (And I certainly don't need to tell you that.)  Thus, I'm prodding
at this space a bit to attempt to do some future proofing.

As we noted earlier in thread, this likely at least encourages configuration
to be multi-instanced, even if the session instantiation is not currently.
Key changes aren't something we can readily do, so getting that part right
early is necessary.

The likely impact on current IGP module BFD configuration may be a later
augmentation.  Thus, as long as the likely implications are understood,
there may be no further action needed at this time.  Determining that is
partially what this thread is attempting to shake out.

-- Jeff


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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:26:56 -0400
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To: Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Alia,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response inline.
>
>
>
> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com <ak=
atlas@gmail.com>]
> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8815=E6=97=
=A5 6:56
> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation=
-cap@ietf.org
> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
>
>
>
> As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-03.
>
> First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert, Luis,
> and Luay - for their work on this useful document.
>
>
>
> I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the draft can
> progress.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.
>
> Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and better to not
> create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP  Tunnel Encapsulation Attribu=
te Types=E2=80=9D
> but rather reuse the existing BGP one:
>
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/
> bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types
>

Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I think this
makes sense.



> [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been defined, it has been
> modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP extension is bee=
n
> redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which normative
> reference should be use?
>
> - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may never be
> published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think RFC 5512 has no=
t
> been implemented hence we may question whether draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps
> will be=E2=80=A6)
>
> - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps may obsolete
> RFC 5512
>

Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I'm not quite
as concerned.  That said, are you certain that there aren't explanations
and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps that
aren't in RFC 5512?  Certainly, some of the tunnel types that were
mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.


> Major:
>
>
>
> 1)  First, the draft talks about what information is sent - but nothing
> about how it is to be understood or used.  That'd be ok if there were a
> clear reference to a document that discussed the related procedures.  A
> quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 seems that it may be the
> right place to start - but it's procedures are BGP-focused and while ther=
e
> are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=C2=A75.1-=C2=A7=
5.3) are
> normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic and usage
> standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in respectively the
> following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Type=
s,
> BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you comment, we need =
to
> clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:
>
> The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its semantic and
> usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-TLV defined in
> RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)
>
>
>
> For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color value expected t=
o
> represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.
>
>
>
>   Can a BGP route with a particular color extended community then have th=
e
> OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with the same color?
>
>
>
>   What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.  It=E2=80=99s a color used to =
define
> policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this color as an inp=
ut
> for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use).
>
> We can add this text if needed.
>
>
Yes, I think that is needed.  In BGP, since a route can have communities,
it is easy to just have a "must match color" rule (though one could picture
a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-color).  For OSPF, if the
intention of the use for this information is an external application, that
needs to be clearly stated.

There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can actually use
the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally what is
missing in the document.

   Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 ("However, suppose that one of
> the TLVs in U2's Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contains the Color
> Sub-TLV.  In that case, packet P SHOULD
>
>    NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1 is
>    carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2's
>    Color Sub-TLV.") doesn't seem to strictly apply.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be enough? If not,
> a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of section 5.4 defini=
ng this
> color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any text. (rather th=
an
> trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)
>

I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to you.  My
review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what is there
in the order and location it is presented.


> Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings, and
> that is all this draft currently has.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2)  Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsulation Sub-TLV
> and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 - but
> that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA registry
> for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and
> contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.   I'm nearly certain
> that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (*does
> variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues for OSP=
F
> sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs defined in
> the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no reference t=
o
> the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the future=
.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] Good point. Does the previous change address that point?
>

Simply changing to the BGP registry helps - but it isn't quite sufficient.
Are there cases where a BGP tunnel type wouldn't be supported?  How should
an unknown sub-TLV or unknown tunnel type be treated?

Also - are OSPF parsers ready to handle variability in terms of the number
of bytes for the length for a  sub-TLV?  I see that
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps Sec 2 defines that the sub-TLV length can be 1
or 2 bytes - but this draft says that the sub-TLV length is 1 byte (Sec
5).  If the tunnel type isn't understood, then I can see that the OSPF
parser would know about the number of bytes for the length of a sub-TLV
based upon the type value & which range it falls into.

As I investigate this, I actually have more concerns.   Generally, for
OSPF, TLVs and sub-TLVs are padded to a 4-byte boundary that includes the
type and length.  The format for the sub-TLVs in
draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps appear to be mostly aligned to 4-bytes
ignoring the type and length.   In Sec 3.2.4, the L2TPv3 sub-TLV isn't
padded to a 4-byte boundary and its length is how the cookie size is
determined.

At the bottom of Sec 4, the length is defined as the total number of octets
in the value field.  Since this doesn't indicate that it requires or adds
padding to a 4-byte boundary, this could throw off the alignment for the
rest of the LSA.

Is there an implementation of this draft?  Have these types of concerns
been thought through?



> 3) It is unfortunate that Geneve, which is the agreed encapsulation for
> NVO3, is not included in the set of tunnels but VXLAN-GPE, which is not
> going to be a standard, is.
>
> I know this is duplicating what is in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 but
> it emphasizes the need to assume additional Tunnel Types and related
> Encapsulation Sub-TLVs will be defined.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] I agree that this is unfortunate.
>
> But as the this new change, this draft will just refer to the existing BG=
P
> tunnels types. No duplication, no new tunnel types.
>
> I=E2=80=99d rather define new types in an independent document. Home of t=
his
> document, and possibly additional WGs to cross-post, would already be a
> good question ;-) (candidates could be OSPF, IS-IS, IDR, NVO3, RTGWG,
> softwires, possibly BESS=E2=80=A6)
>
>
>
> 4) Sec 4: Is there a reason to create a new IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type=
s
> registry instead of reusing BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Typ=
es
> (https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/
> bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types)?  The latter is FCFS and the proposed
> registry is Standards Action.   There are already differences and
> collisions between the two (i.e. value 15).
>
> What would happen if an Encapsulation Sub-TLV needed to include a Tunnel
> Type? Which registry would it pull from? Would the value used depend on t=
he
> protocol it was signaled in?
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] Not anymore. (in early version of the OSPF draft, the code
> point was 1 octet, while IDR was 2). As indicated above, we=E2=80=99ll ch=
ange to
> use the BGP one.
>
>
>
> 5) I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has to be a normative reference.
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] see the above.
>
>
>
> 6) Given that some of the references are to in progress documents for the
> tunnel types, is it expected that the values will correspond to future
> versions or are they nailed to this particular version or something else?
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] I think the reference to existing =E2=80=9CBGP=E2=80=9D/IA=
NA registry
> address this point
>
>
>
>
>
> Nits:
>
>
>
> a) Sec 1:"Partial deployment of IPv6 in IPv4 networks or IPv6 in IPv4
>       networks as described in [RFC5565]"
>
> s/IPv6 in IPv4/IPv4 in IPv6 for one of the two
>
>
>
> [Bruno/Xiaohu] will fix it. Thanks again for your detailed AD review of
> this doc.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alia
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Xiaohu/Bruno
>

Regards,
Alia

--001a114b2fc0d56d59055265e103
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Alia,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks a lot for your AD revi=
ew. Please see our response inline.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=
=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt">:</spa=
n></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt"> Alia Atlas [<a href=3D=
"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:akatlas@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=
=B4</span></b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt">:</span></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt"> 2017</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt">=E5=B9=B4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt"=
>6</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E6=9C=88</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10pt">15</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E6=97=
=A5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt">
 6:56<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>=
</b><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt">:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt"> OSPF List;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:10pt"> AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr=
>cap-03<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As is customary, I have done my=
 AD review of=C2=A0draft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap-03.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">First, I would like to thank th=
e authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert, Luis, and Luay - for their work on this =
useful document.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do have a few concerns that n=
eed addressing before the draft can progress.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] Many th=
anks for your useful comments.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Following your comments, we b=
elieve it would be simpler and better to not create a new IANA registry for=
 =E2=80=9DIGP =C2=A0Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=9D
 but rather reuse the existing BGP one:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style=3D"font-family:=
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-decoration:none"><a href=3D"ht=
tps://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-t=
ypes" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iana.org/<wbr>assignments/bgp-parameter=
s/<wbr>bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<wbr>types</a></span></span></p></div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Given that the sub-TLVs available depe=
nd on the tunnel type, I think this makes sense.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D=
"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437WordSection1"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this =
OSPF extension has been defined, it has been modeled based on RFC 5512. How=
ever, as of today, the BGP extension is
 been redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which normative=
 reference should be use?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">- as of today, RFC 5512 is pr=
obably the right one as draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC a=
nd may never be published as RFC (IDR requires
 2 implementations. I think RFC 5512 has not been implemented hence we may =
question whether draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps will be=E2=80=A6)<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">- in some hypothetical future=
, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps may obsolete RFC 5512</span></p></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Judging from the two partial implementatio=
ns in the IDR wiki, I&#39;m not quite as concerned.=C2=A0 That said, are yo=
u certain that there aren&#39;t explanations and behaviors that are clarifi=
ed in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps that aren&#39;t in RFC 5512?=C2=A0 Certa=
inly, some of the tunnel types that were mentioned in the OSPF registry are=
 from the former.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_440089439288=
9760437WordSection1"><span class=3D"gmail-"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Major:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font-style:normal;font-v=
ariant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-hei=
ght:normal;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">First, the draft talks abo=
ut what information is sent - but nothing about how it is to be understood =
or used.=C2=A0 That&#39;d be ok if there were a clear reference to a docume=
nt that discussed the related procedures.=C2=A0
 A quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 seems that it may be =
the right place to start - but it&#39;s procedures are BGP-focused and whil=
e there are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well=
. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:18pt;text-indent:0cm"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=
=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=C2=A75.1-=C2=A75.3) are normatively d=
efined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic and usage standpoint.
 And that there code point are allocated in respectively the following IANA=
 registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types, BGP Tunnel En=
capsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you comment, we need to clarify the =
5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The Color Sub-TLV value is a =
4-octet unsigned integer. Its semantic and usage are the same as the Color =
Value, from the Color Sub-TLV defined in
 RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For instance, for the Color sub=
-TLV, is the 4 byte color value expected to represent the same meaning in O=
SPF as in BGP?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.
<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 Can a BGP route with a p=
articular color extended community then have the OSPF tunnel to use selecte=
d from only those tunnels with the same color?<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 What does the Color TLV =
mean in a purely OSPF context?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as=
 in the IDR context.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s a color used to define policy. The =
application using those tunnels, may use this color as an input
 for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use). <u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">We can add this text if neede=
d.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p></span></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, I think that is needed.=C2=A0=
 In BGP, since a route can have communities, it is easy to just have a &quo=
t;must match color&quot; rule (though one could picture a community that me=
ans match-any-tunnel-but-this-color).=C2=A0 For OSPF, if the intention of t=
he use for this information is an external application, that needs to be cl=
early stated.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div>There needs to be enough text so t=
hat two implementations can actually use the functionality - not merely sig=
nal it - and that is generally what is missing in the document.</div><div><=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"ZH-=
CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437WordSection1"><span class=3D"g=
mail-"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span>=C2=A0 Se=
c 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06=C2=A0(&quot;However, suppose th=
at one of the TLVs in U2&#39;s Tunnel Encapsulation=C2=A0attribute contains=
 the Color Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In that case, packet P SHOULD</p><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless =
U1 is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2=
&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Color Sub-TLV.&quot;) doesn&#39;t seem to strictly apply.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] Would n=
ew clarification added above (*) be enough? If not, a priori, I=E2=80=99d r=
ather improve the definition of section 5.4 defining this
 color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any text. (rather tha=
n trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)</span></p></div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would be happy for you to fix it where =
makes the most sense to you.=C2=A0 My review suffers from the usual issue o=
f commenting mostly on what is there in the order and location it is presen=
ted.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
<div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437WordSection1">=
<span class=3D"gmail-"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:10.5pt">=
<br></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Semantics and behavior need to =
be specified - not just the encodings, and that is all this draft currently=
 has.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-le=
ft:18pt">
<u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font-style:normal;font-v=
ariant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-hei=
ght:normal;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer =
to the format of the Encapsulation Sub-TLV and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from=
 draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 - but that draft defines not merely t=
he format, but allocates an IANA registry
 for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and conten=
ts of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type. =C2=A0 I&#39;m nearly certain=
 that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (<i>does =
variable length fields based upon the allocated
 type cause issues for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???</i>) but can contain any val=
ues and sub-TLVs defined in the relevant IANA registry. As it is written no=
w, there is no reference to the registry or ability to easily support more =
tunnel types in the future.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] Good po=
int. Does the previous change address that point?</span></p></div></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>Simply changing to the BGP registry helps - b=
ut it isn&#39;t quite sufficient.=C2=A0 Are there cases where a BGP tunnel =
type wouldn&#39;t be supported?=C2=A0 How should an unknown sub-TLV or unkn=
own tunnel type be treated?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Also - are OSPF =
parsers ready to handle variability in terms of the number of bytes for the=
 length for a =C2=A0sub-TLV?=C2=A0 I see that draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps =
Sec 2 defines that the sub-TLV length can be 1 or 2 bytes - but this draft =
says that the sub-TLV length is 1 byte (Sec 5).=C2=A0 If the tunnel type is=
n&#39;t understood, then I can see that the OSPF parser would know about th=
e number of bytes for the length of a sub-TLV based upon the type value &am=
p; which range it falls into.</div><div><br></div><div>As I investigate thi=
s, I actually have more concerns. =C2=A0 Generally, for OSPF, TLVs and sub-=
TLVs are padded to a 4-byte boundary that includes the type and length.=C2=
=A0 The format for the sub-TLVs in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps appear to b=
e mostly aligned to 4-bytes ignoring the type and length. =C2=A0 In Sec 3.2=
.4, the L2TPv3 sub-TLV isn&#39;t padded to a 4-byte boundary and its length=
 is how the cookie size is determined.</div><div><br></div><div>At the bott=
om of Sec 4, the length is defined as the total number of octets in the val=
ue field.=C2=A0 Since this doesn&#39;t indicate that it requires or adds pa=
dding to a 4-byte boundary, this could throw off the alignment for the rest=
 of the LSA.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there an implementation of this dr=
aft?=C2=A0 Have these types of concerns been thought through?</div><div><br=
></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div lang=3D"ZH-CN"><div class=3D"gmail-m_4400894392889760437WordSection1"><=
span class=3D"gmail-"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">3) It is unfortunate that Genev=
e, which is the agreed encapsulation for NVO3, is not included in the set o=
f tunnels but VXLAN-GPE, which is not going to be a standard, is.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I know this is duplicating what=
 is in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 but it emphasizes the need to a=
ssume additional Tunnel Types and related Encapsulation Sub-TLVs will be de=
fined.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] I agree=
 that this is unfortunate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">But as the this new change, t=
his draft will just refer to the existing BGP tunnels types. No duplication=
, no new tunnel types.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I=E2=80=99d rather define new=
 types in an independent document. Home of this document, and possibly addi=
tional WGs to cross-post, would already be a good
 question ;-) (candidates could be OSPF, IS-IS, IDR, NVO3, RTGWG, softwires=
, possibly BESS=E2=80=A6)<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">4) Sec 4: Is there a reason to =
create a new IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Types registry instead of reusing BGP=
 Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel Types (<a href=3D"https://www.iana.o=
rg/assignments/bgp-parameters/bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.iana.org/<wbr>assignments/bgp-parameters/<wbr>bgp-param=
eters.xhtml#tunnel-<wbr>types</a>)?=C2=A0
 The latter is FCFS and the proposed registry is Standards Action. =C2=A0 T=
here are already differences and collisions between the two (i.e. value 15)=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What would happen if an Encapsu=
lation Sub-TLV needed to include a Tunnel Type? Which registry would it pul=
l from? Would the value used depend on the protocol it was signaled in?<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] Not any=
more. (in early version of the OSPF draft, the code point was 1 octet, whil=
e IDR was 2). As indicated above, we=E2=80=99ll change
 to use the BGP one.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">5)=C2=A0I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-enc=
aps has to be a normative reference.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] see the=
 above.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">6) Given that some of the refer=
ences are to in progress documents for the tunnel types, is it expected tha=
t the values will correspond to future versions or are they nailed to this =
particular version or something else?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] I think=
 the reference to existing =E2=80=9CBGP=E2=80=9D/IANA registry address this=
 point</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D=
"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
Nits:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a) Sec 1:&quot;Partial deployme=
nt of IPv6 in IPv4 networks or IPv6 in IPv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 networks as described in [RFC5565]&quot;<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">s/IPv6 in IPv4/IPv4 in IPv6 for=
 one of the two=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;=
font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno/Xiaohu] will fi=
x it. Thanks again for your detailed AD review of this doc.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Alia<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:16pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Xiaohu/Bruno</span></p></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alia=C2=A0</div><=
/div></div></div>

--001a114b2fc0d56d59055265e103--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, "OSPF WG List" <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
Thread-Index: AQHS6Syo68r6z3GylU2z1PR9VYBctaItArCAgAENr4CAAAJjAIAACW0A///IiAA=
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:40:28 +0000
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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org> <0578CD07-8678-4FF2-939F-0EF6F68CE34A@gmail.com> <20170620141639.GA22550@pfrc.org> <d4d161f4a91d4a479ed71affca9170c6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20170620145856.GC22550@pfrc.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:50:15 -0700
Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>
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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org> <0578CD07-8678-4FF2-939F-0EF6F68CE34A@gmail.com> <20170620141639.GA22550@pfrc.org> <d4d161f4a91d4a479ed71affca9170c6@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <20170620145856.GC22550@pfrc.org> <D56EB8CF.B5E9E%acee@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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> On Jun 20, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Jeff,=20
>=20
> On 6/20/17, 10:58 AM, "Jeffrey Haas" <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
>=20
>> Les,
>>=20
>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 02:25:12PM +0000, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) =
wrote:
>>>> Different protocols have different survivability requirements.  An
>>> IGP may
>>>> very well want sub-second timers, potentially for repair behaviors.
>>> BGP may
>>>> want fast failover, but may be fine with second level granularity.
>>> This is
>>>> particularly true since the cost of too aggressively flapping BGP =
is
>>> of
>>>> significantly greater impact to the network and the router.
>>>>=20
>>> [Les:] The real issues here are false failures and proper use of
>>> dampening. No protocol - not even an IGP - wants to flap =
unnecessarily.
>>> If timers are set so aggressively that false failures are reported =
this
>>> is BAD.
>>> Even worse is failure to dampen so that we get multiple false =
failures
>>> in a short period of time.
>>>=20
>>> Arguing that the right way to solve this problem is to increase the
>>> number of sessions using different timer granularity seems likely to
>>> make any problems worse as you have now increased the number of BFD
>>> sessions with the associated costs.
>>=20
>> I'm mildly amused you seem to think I'm not considering the cost of
>> additional sessions in the scaling matrix. :-)
>>=20
>> I do think you're conflating the survivability requirements vs. timer
>> granularity.  However, I agree that the most commonly deployed form =
is to
>> go
>> for single session with the most stable aggressive timer.
>>=20
>> Again, the reason I raise this is there has been discussion regarding
>> behavior for different client timing requirements.  There are a few
>> options
>> for how this is likely to play out in terms of BFD protocol
>> implementation.
>> However, configuration and operational models tend to evolve much =
more
>> slowly.  (And I certainly don't need to tell you that.)  Thus, I'm
>> prodding
>> at this space a bit to attempt to do some future proofing.
>>=20
>> As we noted earlier in thread, this likely at least encourages
>> configuration
>> to be multi-instanced, even if the session instantiation is not =
currently.
>> Key changes aren't something we can readily do, so getting that part =
right
>> early is necessary.
>>=20
>> The likely impact on current IGP module BFD configuration may be a =
later
>> augmentation.  Thus, as long as the likely implications are =
understood,
>> there may be no further action needed at this time.  Determining that =
is
>> partially what this thread is attempting to shake out.
>=20
> In the IGPs, we have a separate BFD container in the interface
> configuration. Currently, it only contains the a boolean. This could
> easily be augmented to reference the appropriate construct in the BFD
> model.=20

Let me work with Reshad to suggest what IGP could suggest to BFD in =
their construct, and have BFP pick what it believes would be the right =
set of parameters to be able to support most of the IGPs over the given =
BFD session. Whether we add it in the current model or add it later as =
an augmentation could then be decided separately.

>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee=20
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> -- Jeff
>=20

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com


From nobody Tue Jun 20 10:56:06 2017
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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:55:58 -0500
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To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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--001a1141cae8ccb407055267f65b
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Hi Jeff,
I'd like to hear from others who are familiar with implementations of BFD
that supports per protocol single-hop BFD multi-sessions between the same
pair of BFD systems. RFC 5881 does allow per protocol single-hop sessions
on the same interface, logical or physical, between the same pair of
systems. But it is not clear, in my opinion, how BFD does demultiplexing if
Your Discriminator == 0 per protocol (RFC 5881, section 3, last sentence)
if systems use the same IP addresses. And hence the question, Even though
it is allowed to have BFD single-hop sessions per application/protocol on
the same interface between the same pair of systems, is this real,
practical requirement?
Or am I missing the point completely?

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> [Long delayed response.]
>
> Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the
> per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.  And some
> come down to questions for timer granularity.
>
> The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a boolean
> that says "I'm using BFD or not".
>
> Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the sessions
> don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD
> session
> to use?
>
> The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
> to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if different
> parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.  However,
> BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may spring
> forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
> "configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang model
> doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on".
>
> Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better
> sense.
>
> To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were using
> BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
> configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one BFD
> session is formed using the most aggressive timers.
>
> I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have
> been
> prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different timing
> requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
> protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to Down
> when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to renegotiate to
> the less aggressive timers.
>
> -- Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> > We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the
> applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier this is
> pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when not all
> applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e.g. Go
> with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authentication
> parameters and having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc is not
> intuitive. And what do we do if applications have different BFD
> authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD authentication parms were
> better off in BFD. And once we did that, the timer/multiplier followed....
> >
> > I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we
> went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Reshad (as individual contributor).
> >
> > From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:
> mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> > Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> > To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> > Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net<mailto:jhaas@juniper.net>>, OSPF WG
> List <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-
> bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
> > Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
> > Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
> > Resent-To: <vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>,
> Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, <
> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>, <
> santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>, <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> > Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM
> >
> > Resending with correct BFD WG address.
> >
> > On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <
> mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Agree with Acee's assessment. After much debate, we decided that we
> should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and have
> any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This makes sense
> specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:
> acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to
> provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model
> (ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. However, after
> much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we agreed
> to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD within the
> OSPF and IS-IS models.
> >
> > We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR and Juniper
> JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the consensus was
> to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The heuristics to
> determine what parameters to use when the same BFD endpoint was configured
> with different parameters in different protocols were proprietary and
> somewhat of a hack.
> >
> > I may have not remembered all the details so I'd encourage others to
> chime in.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Acee
> >
> > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
>

--001a1141cae8ccb407055267f65b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jeff,<div>I&#39;d like to hear from others who are fami=
liar with implementations of BFD that supports per protocol single-hop BFD =
multi-sessions between the same pair of BFD systems. RFC 5881 does allow pe=
r protocol single-hop sessions on the same interface, logical or physical, =
between the same pair of systems. But it is not clear, in my opinion, how B=
FD does demultiplexing if Your Discriminator =3D=3D 0 per protocol (RFC 588=
1, section 3, last sentence) if systems use the same IP addresses. And henc=
e the question, Even though it is allowed to have BFD single-hop sessions p=
er application/protocol on the same interface between the same pair of syst=
ems, is this real, practical requirement?</div><div>Or am I missing the poi=
nt completely?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 19, 2=
017 at 1:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@=
pfrc.org" target=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">[Long delayed response.]<br>
<br>
Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the<br>
per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.=C2=A0 And s=
ome<br>
come down to questions for timer granularity.<br>
<br>
The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a boolean=
<br>
that says &quot;I&#39;m using BFD or not&quot;.<br>
<br>
Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the sessions<=
br>
don&#39;t share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD se=
ssion<br>
to use?<br>
<br>
The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session<br>
to be configured.=C2=A0 (Key is interface/dst-ip)=C2=A0 This means that if =
different<br>
parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won&#39;t permit it today.=C2=A0 H=
owever,<br>
BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may spring<b=
r>
forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.=C2=A0 Thus, it&#39;s no=
t<br>
&quot;configured&quot; - it&#39;s solely operational state.=C2=A0 However, =
the BFD yang model<br>
doesn&#39;t really make good provision for that as an &quot;on&quot;.<br>
<br>
Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better sense=
.<br>
<br>
To pick the example of Juniper&#39;s configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were u=
sing<br>
BFD, both can choose differing timers.=C2=A0 This represents two pieces of<=
br>
configuration state for the same endpoints.=C2=A0 Additionally, only one BF=
D<br>
session is formed using the most aggressive timers.<br>
<br>
I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have bee=
n<br>
prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different timing=
<br>
requirements.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think we handle this operationally in the B=
FD<br>
protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to Down<br=
>
when the aggressive timers fail and there&#39;s no clean way to renegotiate=
 to<br>
the less aggressive timers.<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:<br=
>
&gt; We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the applica=
tions/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier this is pretty =
straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when not all applic=
ations have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e.g. Go with most=
 aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authentication parameters and =
having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc is not intuitive. And what=
 do we do if applications have different BFD authentication parms. We concl=
uded that the BFD authentication parms were better off in BFD. And once we =
did that, the timer/multiplier followed....<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we w=
ent back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Reshad (as individual contributor).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; From: Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethananda=
ni@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM<br>
&gt; To: &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.co=
m">acee@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@<wbr=
>cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jhaas@junipe=
r.net</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jhaa<wbr>s@juniper=
.net</a>&gt;&gt;, OSPF WG List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@ie=
tf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@<wbr>ietf.org</a=
>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf=
-bfd-yang@ietf.org</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang=
@ietf.org">draft-ietf-bfd-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org</a>&lt;<wb=
r>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-bfd-yan=
g@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@i=
etf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org</a><wbr>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-=
yang@ietf.org</a><wbr>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@iet=
f.org">draft-ietf-ospf-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-=
bfd@ietf.org">rtg-<wbr>bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg=
-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@iet=
f.org">rtg-<wbr>bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration<br>
&gt; Resent-From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">alias-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">al=
ias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt; Resent-To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com">vero.zheng@hua=
wei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com"><wbr>vero.zh=
eng@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;, Reshad &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com"=
>rrahman@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com">rrah<=
wbr>man@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethananda=
ni@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com">santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com">santosh.pallagatti@<w=
br>gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com"><w=
br>gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Resending with correct BFD WG address.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;&g=
t; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Agree with Acee&#39;s assessment. After much debate, we decided that w=
e should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and hav=
e any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This makes sen=
se specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.=
com">acee@<wbr>cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Jeff,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to p=
rovide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model (ietf-ospf.yan=
g). We originally did have this configuration. However, after much discussi=
on and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we agreed to leave the B=
FD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD within the OSPF and IS-IS =
models.<br>
&gt;<br>
</span><span class=3D"im HOEnZb">&gt; We did discuss the fact that vendors =
(notably Cisco IOS-XR and Juniper JUNOS) do allow configuration within the =
IGPs. However, the consensus was to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD =
model. The heuristics to determine what parameters to use when the same BFD=
 endpoint was configured with different parameters in different protocols w=
ere proprietary and somewhat of a hack.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I may have not remembered all the details so I&#39;d encourage others =
to chime in.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Acee<br>
&gt;<br>
</span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt; Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>=
&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gm=
ail.com</a><wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>=
&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gm=
ail.com</a><wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141cae8ccb407055267f65b--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
CC: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
Thread-Index: AQHS6Syo68r6z3GylU2z1PR9VYBctaItArCAgAENr4CAAAJjAIAACW0A///IiACAAGdVgP//wMUA
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 18:04:04 +0000
Message-ID: <D56EDB5E.B5F63%acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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From nobody Tue Jun 20 11:51:23 2017
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:00:09 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20170620190009.GA2289@pfrc.org>
References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmWdd4bZ5j=9_HtB6ihuO2Bqgf13Yad68hnVL=hgOEBd+A@mail.gmail.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/ufEumgt4E3evQDv0wau8b0sZMnw>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Greg,

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:55:58PM -0500, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> I'd like to hear from others who are familiar with implementations of BFD
> that supports per protocol single-hop BFD multi-sessions between the same
> pair of BFD systems. RFC 5881 does allow per protocol single-hop sessions
> on the same interface, logical or physical, between the same pair of
> systems. But it is not clear, in my opinion, how BFD does demultiplexing if
> Your Discriminator == 0 per protocol (RFC 5881, section 3, last sentence)
> if systems use the same IP addresses. And hence the question, Even though
> it is allowed to have BFD single-hop sessions per application/protocol on
> the same interface between the same pair of systems, is this real,
> practical requirement?
> Or am I missing the point completely?

Correct, 5881 procedures do not currently permit this.
As I mentioned, we've had prior discussions about this being potentially
problematic for clients that may have differing timing requirements.

Part of the point of this exercise is to provide necessary future-proofing
against the need to re-issue the Yang modules if such a mechanism is
developed.  (Somewhat analogous to the instructions to the design team that
MPLS-TP was out of scope for the module, but that its structure shouldn't
prevent its implementation in the future.)

Thus far, two points have sprung from the discussion that are likely
actionable:
- The single-hop configuration in the current BFD module isn't suitable for
  use by the IGPs.  Some form of wildcard of templating behavior is
  necessary.
- Multiple clients that might desire to configure a session with different
  parameters are unable to do so today.  This precludes some implementations
  that permit such configuration, potentially at protocol scope.  It also
  doesn't fit the future-proofing thought.


-- Jeff

> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> 
> > [Long delayed response.]
> >
> > Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the
> > per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.  And some
> > come down to questions for timer granularity.
> >
> > The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a boolean
> > that says "I'm using BFD or not".
> >
> > Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the sessions
> > don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD
> > session
> > to use?
> >
> > The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
> > to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if different
> > parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.  However,
> > BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may spring
> > forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
> > "configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang model
> > doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on".
> >
> > Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better
> > sense.
> >
> > To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were using
> > BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
> > configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one BFD
> > session is formed using the most aggressive timers.
> >
> > I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have
> > been
> > prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different timing
> > requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
> > protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to Down
> > when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to renegotiate to
> > the less aggressive timers.
> >
> > -- Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote:
> > > We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the
> > applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier this is
> > pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when not all
> > applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e.g. Go
> > with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authentication
> > parameters and having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc is not
> > intuitive. And what do we do if applications have different BFD
> > authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD authentication parms were
> > better off in BFD. And once we did that, the timer/multiplier followed....
> > >
> > > I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we
> > went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Reshad (as individual contributor).
> > >
> > > From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:
> > mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> > > Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> > > To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> > > Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net<mailto:jhaas@juniper.net>>, OSPF WG
> > List <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> > mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> > mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> > <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> > <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-
> > bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
> > > Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
> > > Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
> > > Resent-To: <vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>,
> > Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, <
> > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>, <
> > santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>, <
> > gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> > > Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM
> > >
> > > Resending with correct BFD WG address.
> > >
> > > On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <
> > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Agree with Acee's assessment. After much debate, we decided that we
> > should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and have
> > any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This makes sense
> > specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.
> > >
> > > Cheers.
> > >
> > > On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com<mailto:
> > acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > > At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to
> > provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model
> > (ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. However, after
> > much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we agreed
> > to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD within the
> > OSPF and IS-IS models.
> > >
> > > We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR and Juniper
> > JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the consensus was
> > to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The heuristics to
> > determine what parameters to use when the same BFD endpoint was configured
> > with different parameters in different protocols were proprietary and
> > somewhat of a hack.
> > >
> > > I may have not remembered all the details so I'd encourage others to
> > chime in.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Acee
> > >
> > > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >


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References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmWdd4bZ5j=9_HtB6ihuO2Bqgf13Yad68hnVL=hgOEBd+A@mail.gmail.com> <20170620190009.GA2289@pfrc.org>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:48:51 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVMg0O=i8Nr_0ZMbeJRDdhPZYbxbGoscA2TysJHew4u_Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>,  "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/-I0cDlHqVZgg9uQD8MVgcQpjqnQ>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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Hi Jeff,
thank you for the great summary of the discussion, helps me to catch the
wave.
I'm skeptical that there's realistic scenario where two BFD systems will be
requested to run multiple BFD single-hop session between them over the same
interfaces (logical or physical). I believe that we should try to make
models future proof but to the level that is reasonable, practical.
Approach "if we can think of it, then we need to support it" may not be the
one.
RE: RFC 5881. I've referred to the following:
... any BFD packet from the remote machine with a zero value of Your
Discriminator MUST be associated with the session bound to the remote
system, interface, and protocol.
Unless we add out-band bootstrapping of BFD sessions like with LSP Ping, I
don't see how received BFD control packet with zero value in Your
Discriminator may be bound to not just any one of several protocols that
are trying to run BFD session on the same interface to the same remote
system but to the right one, the one that corresponds to the protocol on
whose behalf remote BFD peer sent the control packet. Hence my question Do
we have implementation(s) that use this and are asking for BFD data model
to accommodate them? Or we are just doing interesting intellectual exercise?

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:55:58PM -0500, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > Hi Jeff,
> > I'd like to hear from others who are familiar with implementations of BFD
> > that supports per protocol single-hop BFD multi-sessions between the same
> > pair of BFD systems. RFC 5881 does allow per protocol single-hop sessions
> > on the same interface, logical or physical, between the same pair of
> > systems. But it is not clear, in my opinion, how BFD does demultiplexing
> if
> > Your Discriminator == 0 per protocol (RFC 5881, section 3, last sentence)
> > if systems use the same IP addresses. And hence the question, Even though
> > it is allowed to have BFD single-hop sessions per application/protocol on
> > the same interface between the same pair of systems, is this real,
> > practical requirement?
> > Or am I missing the point completely?
>
> Correct, 5881 procedures do not currently permit this.
> As I mentioned, we've had prior discussions about this being potentially
> problematic for clients that may have differing timing requirements.
>
> Part of the point of this exercise is to provide necessary future-proofing
> against the need to re-issue the Yang modules if such a mechanism is
> developed.  (Somewhat analogous to the instructions to the design team that
> MPLS-TP was out of scope for the module, but that its structure shouldn't
> prevent its implementation in the future.)
>
> Thus far, two points have sprung from the discussion that are likely
> actionable:
> - The single-hop configuration in the current BFD module isn't suitable for
>   use by the IGPs.  Some form of wildcard of templating behavior is
>   necessary.
> - Multiple clients that might desire to configure a session with different
>   parameters are unable to do so today.  This precludes some
> implementations
>   that permit such configuration, potentially at protocol scope.  It also
>   doesn't fit the future-proofing thought.
>
>
> -- Jeff
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org> wrote:
> >
> > > [Long delayed response.]
> > >
> > > Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in the
> > > per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.  And
> some
> > > come down to questions for timer granularity.
> > >
> > > The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing a
> boolean
> > > that says "I'm using BFD or not".
> > >
> > > Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the
> sessions
> > > don't share common properties, how should the protocol pick what BFD
> > > session
> > > to use?
> > >
> > > The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop session
> > > to be configured.  (Key is interface/dst-ip)  This means that if
> different
> > > parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won't permit it today.
> However,
> > > BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but may
> spring
> > > forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.  Thus, it's not
> > > "configured" - it's solely operational state.  However, the BFD yang
> model
> > > doesn't really make good provision for that as an "on".
> > >
> > > Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes better
> > > sense.
> > >
> > > To pick the example of Juniper's configuration, if OSPF and eBGP were
> using
> > > BFD, both can choose differing timers.  This represents two pieces of
> > > configuration state for the same endpoints.  Additionally, only one BFD
> > > session is formed using the most aggressive timers.
> > >
> > > I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since there have
> > > been
> > > prior list discussions on the situation where clients have different
> timing
> > > requirements.  I don't think we handle this operationally in the BFD
> > > protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go to
> Down
> > > when the aggressive timers fail and there's no clean way to
> renegotiate to
> > > the less aggressive timers.
> > >
> > > -- Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
> wrote:
> > > > We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in the
> > > applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplier
> this is
> > > pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do when
> not all
> > > applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e.g. Go
> > > with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authentication
> > > parameters and having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc is not
> > > intuitive. And what do we do if applications have different BFD
> > > authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD authentication parms
> were
> > > better off in BFD. And once we did that, the timer/multiplier
> followed....
> > > >
> > > > I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall that we
> > > went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the decision.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Reshad (as individual contributor).
> > > >
> > > > From: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > mjethanandani@gmail.com>>
> > > > Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM
> > > > To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>
> > > > Cc: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net<mailto:jhaas@juniper.net>>,
> OSPF WG
> > > List <ospf@ietf.org<mailto:ospf@ietf.org>>, "
> draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> > > mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org<
> > > mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> > > <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org
> > > <mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>>, "rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-
> > > bfd@ietf.org>" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org>>
> > > > Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
> > > > Resent-From: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>>
> > > > Resent-To: <vero.zheng@huawei.com<mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com>>,
> > > Reshad <rrahman@cisco.com<mailto:rrahman@cisco.com>>, <
> > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>>, <
> > > santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com<mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com>>, <
> > > gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>
> > > > Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM
> > > >
> > > > Resending with correct BFD WG address.
> > > >
> > > > On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <
> > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Agree with Acee's assessment. After much debate, we decided that we
> > > should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself, and
> have
> > > any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This makes
> sense
> > > specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers.
> > > >
> > > > On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com
> <mailto:
> > > acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may want to
> > > provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model
> > > (ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. However,
> after
> > > much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, we
> agreed
> > > to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD within
> the
> > > OSPF and IS-IS models.
> > > >
> > > > We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR and
> Juniper
> > > JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the consensus
> was
> > > to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The heuristics to
> > > determine what parameters to use when the same BFD endpoint was
> configured
> > > with different parameters in different protocols were proprietary and
> > > somewhat of a hack.
> > > >
> > > > I may have not remembered all the details so I'd encourage others to
> > > chime in.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Acee
> > > >
> > > > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mahesh Jethanandani
> > > > mjethanandani@gmail.com<mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

--001a113ac7248124980552698abe
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jeff,<div>thank you for the great summary of the discus=
sion, helps me to catch the wave.</div><div>I&#39;m skeptical that there&#3=
9;s realistic scenario where two BFD systems will be requested to run multi=
ple BFD single-hop session between them over the same interfaces (logical o=
r physical). I believe that we should try to make models future proof but t=
o the level that is reasonable, practical. Approach &quot;if we can think o=
f it, then we need to support it&quot; may not be the one.</div><div>RE: RF=
C 5881. I&#39;ve referred to the following:</div><div>...=C2=A0<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">any BFD packet from the remote ma=
chine with a=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333p=
x">zero value of Your Discriminator MUST be associated with the session=C2=
=A0</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">bound to the=
 remote system, interface, and protocol.</span></div><div><font color=3D"#0=
00000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Unless we add out-band bootstrap=
ping of BFD sessions like with LSP Ping, I don&#39;t see how received BFD c=
ontrol packet with zero value in Your Discriminator may be bound to not jus=
t any one of several protocols that are trying to run BFD session on the sa=
me interface to the same remote system but to the right one, the one that c=
orresponds to the protocol on whose behalf remote BFD peer sent the control=
 packet. Hence my question Do we have implementation(s) that use this and a=
re asking for BFD data model to accommodate them? Or we are just doing inte=
resting intellectual exercise?</span></font></div><div><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">Regards,</span></div><div><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">Greg</span></div></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 2:00 PM,=
 Jeffrey Haas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">Greg,<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:55:58PM -0500, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi Jeff,<br>
&gt; I&#39;d like to hear from others who are familiar with implementations=
 of BFD<br>
&gt; that supports per protocol single-hop BFD multi-sessions between the s=
ame<br>
&gt; pair of BFD systems. RFC 5881 does allow per protocol single-hop sessi=
ons<br>
&gt; on the same interface, logical or physical, between the same pair of<b=
r>
&gt; systems. But it is not clear, in my opinion, how BFD does demultiplexi=
ng if<br>
&gt; Your Discriminator =3D=3D 0 per protocol (RFC 5881, section 3, last se=
ntence)<br>
&gt; if systems use the same IP addresses. And hence the question, Even tho=
ugh<br>
&gt; it is allowed to have BFD single-hop sessions per application/protocol=
 on<br>
&gt; the same interface between the same pair of systems, is this real,<br>
&gt; practical requirement?<br>
&gt; Or am I missing the point completely?<br>
<br>
</span>Correct, 5881 procedures do not currently permit this.<br>
As I mentioned, we&#39;ve had prior discussions about this being potentiall=
y<br>
problematic for clients that may have differing timing requirements.<br>
<br>
Part of the point of this exercise is to provide necessary future-proofing<=
br>
against the need to re-issue the Yang modules if such a mechanism is<br>
developed.=C2=A0 (Somewhat analogous to the instructions to the design team=
 that<br>
MPLS-TP was out of scope for the module, but that its structure shouldn&#39=
;t<br>
prevent its implementation in the future.)<br>
<br>
Thus far, two points have sprung from the discussion that are likely<br>
actionable:<br>
- The single-hop configuration in the current BFD module isn&#39;t suitable=
 for<br>
=C2=A0 use by the IGPs.=C2=A0 Some form of wildcard of templating behavior =
is<br>
=C2=A0 necessary.<br>
- Multiple clients that might desire to configure a session with different<=
br>
=C2=A0 parameters are unable to do so today.=C2=A0 This precludes some impl=
ementations<br>
=C2=A0 that permit such configuration, potentially at protocol scope.=C2=A0=
 It also<br>
=C2=A0 doesn&#39;t fit the future-proofing thought.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Jeff<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Greg<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jh=
aas@pfrc.org">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; [Long delayed response.]<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Reshad picked up the key points: Some things may make sense in th=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; per-client (protocol) users of BFD, some things perhaps do not.=
=C2=A0 And some<br>
&gt; &gt; come down to questions for timer granularity.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The OSPF and ISIS models both make use of BFD simply by providing=
 a boolean<br>
&gt; &gt; that says &quot;I&#39;m using BFD or not&quot;.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Where we run into some issues are the cases highlighted: when the=
 sessions<br>
&gt; &gt; don&#39;t share common properties, how should the protocol pick w=
hat BFD<br>
&gt; &gt; session<br>
&gt; &gt; to use?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The current BFD yang model only permits a single IP single-hop se=
ssion<br>
&gt; &gt; to be configured.=C2=A0 (Key is interface/dst-ip)=C2=A0 This mean=
s that if different<br>
&gt; &gt; parameters *were* desired, the BFD model won&#39;t permit it toda=
y.=C2=A0 However,<br>
&gt; &gt; BFD sessions for many protocols tend not to be configured, but ma=
y spring<br>
&gt; &gt; forth from protocol state, such as IGP adjacencies.=C2=A0 Thus, i=
t&#39;s not<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;configured&quot; - it&#39;s solely operational state.=C2=A0=
 However, the BFD yang model<br>
&gt; &gt; doesn&#39;t really make good provision for that as an &quot;on&qu=
ot;.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Where all endpoint state is known a priori, config state makes be=
tter<br>
&gt; &gt; sense.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; To pick the example of Juniper&#39;s configuration, if OSPF and e=
BGP were using<br>
&gt; &gt; BFD, both can choose differing timers.=C2=A0 This represents two =
pieces of<br>
&gt; &gt; configuration state for the same endpoints.=C2=A0 Additionally, o=
nly one BFD<br>
&gt; &gt; session is formed using the most aggressive timers.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I partially point out the situation of multiple timers since ther=
e have<br>
&gt; &gt; been<br>
&gt; &gt; prior list discussions on the situation where clients have differ=
ent timing<br>
&gt; &gt; requirements.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think we handle this operationall=
y in the BFD<br>
&gt; &gt; protocol in the cleanest fashion right now - the session will go =
to Down<br>
&gt; &gt; when the aggressive timers fail and there&#39;s no clean way to r=
enegotiate to<br>
&gt; &gt; the less aggressive timers.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -- Jeff<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 02:31:38AM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman)=
 wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; We started off with the intent of having BFD parameters in t=
he<br>
&gt; &gt; applications/protocols which make use of BFD. For timer/multiplie=
r this is<br>
&gt; &gt; pretty straight-forward, although the discussion of what to do wh=
en not all<br>
&gt; &gt; applications have the same BFD parameters for the same session (e=
.g. Go<br>
&gt; &gt; with most aggressive etc). Then we started looking at authenticat=
ion<br>
&gt; &gt; parameters and having BFD authentication parms in OSPF/ISIS etc i=
s not<br>
&gt; &gt; intuitive. And what do we do if applications have different BFD<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; authentication parms. We concluded that the BFD authentication pa=
rms were<br>
&gt; &gt; better off in BFD. And once we did that, the timer/multiplier fol=
lowed....<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I may not recall all the details/discussons, but I do recall=
 that we<br>
&gt; &gt; went back and forth on this and it took some time to make the dec=
ision.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Reshad (as individual contributor).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandan=
i@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:34 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ace=
e@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com"=
>acee@<wbr>cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: Jeffrey Haas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jh=
aas@juniper.net</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jhaas@juniper.net">jhaa<wbr=
>s@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;, OSPF WG<br>
&gt; &gt; List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@ietf.org</a>&lt;ma=
ilto:<a href=3D"mailto:ospf@ietf.org">ospf@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot=
;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.o=
rg</a>&lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf=
-bfd-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-=
yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org</a>&lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf=
-bfd-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-osp=
f-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org">draft=
-ietf-ospf-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-iet=
f-ospf-yang@ietf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org">draft=
-ietf-ospf-yang@<wbr>ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@=
ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-">rtg-</a><b=
r>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bfd@ietf.org">bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-bfd@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:rtg-bfd@ietf.org">rtg-<wbr>bfd@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Resent-From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org">a=
lias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ie=
tf.org">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Resent-To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com">vero=
.zheng@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:vero.zheng@huawei.com"><w=
br>vero.zheng@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt; &gt; Reshad &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com">rrahman@cisco.com=
</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rrahman@cisco.com">rrah<wbr>man@cisco.com<=
/a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethananda=
ni@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.com">santosh.pallagatt=
i@gmail.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:santosh.pallagatti@gmail.c=
om">santosh.pallagatti@<wbr>gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a=
>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">g<wbr>regimirsky@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Resent-Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 5:40 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Resending with correct BFD WG address.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On May 18, 2017, at 2:33 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani &lt;<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.co=
m</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethananda=
ni@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Agree with Acee&#39;s assessment. After much debate, we deci=
ded that we<br>
&gt; &gt; should leave BFD parameter configuration in the BFD model itself,=
 and have<br>
&gt; &gt; any IGP protocol reference the BFD instance in BFD itself. This m=
akes sense<br>
&gt; &gt; specially if multiple protocols fate-share the BFD session.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Cheers.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On May 18, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi Jeff,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; At the OSPF WG Meeting in Chicago, you suggested that we may=
 want to<br>
&gt; &gt; provide configuration of BFD parameters within the OSPF model<br>
&gt; &gt; (ietf-ospf.yang). We originally did have this configuration. Howe=
ver, after<br>
&gt; &gt; much discussion and coordination with the BFD YANG design team, w=
e agreed<br>
&gt; &gt; to leave the BFD session parameters in BFD and only enable BFD wi=
thin the<br>
&gt; &gt; OSPF and IS-IS models.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; We did discuss the fact that vendors (notably Cisco IOS-XR a=
nd Juniper<br>
&gt; &gt; JUNOS) do allow configuration within the IGPs. However, the conse=
nsus was<br>
&gt; &gt; to leave the BFD configuration in the BFD model. The heuristics t=
o<br>
&gt; &gt; determine what parameters to use when the same BFD endpoint was c=
onfigured<br>
&gt; &gt; with different parameters in different protocols were proprietary=
 and<br>
&gt; &gt; somewhat of a hack.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I may have not remembered all the details so I&#39;d encoura=
ge others to<br>
&gt; &gt; chime in.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Acee<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gma=
il.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjetha=
nandani@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Mahesh Jethanandani<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gma=
il.com</a>&lt;<wbr>mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjetha=
nandani@gmail.com</a><wbr>&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ac7248124980552698abe--


From nobody Tue Jun 20 13:17:56 2017
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:26:39 -0400
From: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@juniper.net>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "rtg-bfd@ietf. org" <rtg-bfd@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-bfd-yang@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-yang@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <20170620202639.GF2289@pfrc.org>
References: <D5436DE8.AF5B7%acee@cisco.com> <38DEB571-2918-4464-B18A-71B24221772F@gmail.com> <47325462-2430-4197-AA8D-D3FEF74A834D@gmail.com> <D5438DD9.298FE6%rrahman@cisco.com> <20170619185715.GB22146@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmWdd4bZ5j=9_HtB6ihuO2Bqgf13Yad68hnVL=hgOEBd+A@mail.gmail.com> <20170620190009.GA2289@pfrc.org> <CA+RyBmVMg0O=i8Nr_0ZMbeJRDdhPZYbxbGoscA2TysJHew4u_Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IETF OSPF YANG and BFD Configuration
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On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 02:48:51PM -0500, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> thank you for the great summary of the discussion, helps me to catch the
> wave.
> I'm skeptical that there's realistic scenario where two BFD systems will be
> requested to run multiple BFD single-hop session between them over the same
> interfaces (logical or physical). I believe that we should try to make
> models future proof but to the level that is reasonable, practical.
> Approach "if we can think of it, then we need to support it" may not be the
> one.
> RE: RFC 5881. I've referred to the following:
> ... any BFD packet from the remote machine with a zero value of Your
> Discriminator MUST be associated with the session bound to the remote
> system, interface, and protocol.
> Unless we add out-band bootstrapping of BFD sessions like with LSP Ping, I
> don't see how received BFD control packet with zero value in Your
> Discriminator may be bound to not just any one of several protocols that
> are trying to run BFD session on the same interface to the same remote
> system but to the right one, the one that corresponds to the protocol on
> whose behalf remote BFD peer sent the control packet. Hence my question Do
> we have implementation(s) that use this and are asking for BFD data model
> to accommodate them? Or we are just doing interesting intellectual exercise?

The constant iteration regarding "intellectual exercise" is getting
irritating.  See prior comments.

This distribution is too large to try to design the actual behavioral
change.  If you feel the need to pursue that thread, please reduce the scope
of the cc: list.  This will be my last reply to this topic on the expanded
distro.

To offer one example of how such a thing could be implemented, BFD
authentication can be used with different parameters for each session.  This
provides the necessary split for demultiplexing.  Such a hack is not unusual
operations trick when running OSPF for (partially) disjoint domains on the
same interface, although I suspect that the hack is no longer necessary with
multi-instance techs.  (This trick goes back to the 1990's.)

-- Jeff


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IETF 99  - OSPF WG Call for Agenda Items
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Peter Psenak
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Rob Shakir
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2017-06-23

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths
   within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological
   sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are advertised by the
   link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).

   This draft describes the OSPF extensions required for Segment
   Routing.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>,  Alvaro Retana <aretana@cisco.com>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>, "spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Hi Alia,

thanks for comments, please see inline:


On 31/05/17 04:05 , Alia Atlas wrote:
> As is customary, I have done my AD review
> of draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-16 once publication has
> been requested.  First, I would like to thank the editors & many
> authors, Peter, Stefano, Clarence, Hannes, Rob, Wim & Jeff, for the work
> that they have put in so far and the remaining work that is greatly needed.
>
> While there are a great many issues to be handled, they fall primarily
> into three categories.  The first is simply not going through and
> tightening up the details; for example, stating that the length of a TLV
> is variable provides no meaning.  The second is that the technical
> documents from SPRING that this draft depends on do not adequately
> describe the use of the advertised information (SID/Label Binding TLV)
> or some of the concepts (e.g. SR Mapping Server).  The third is a more
> common set of handling error cases and adding clarity to the intended
> behavior.  I do not see issues with the encodings but I do see fragility
> with the unstated assumptions and behaviors.  The draft describes
> encodings, but very little of the handling, behaviors, or meaning - and
> the references do not provide adequate detail.
>
> I have spent all day (and evening) doing this review and I am quite
> disappointed and concerned about the document.  I would strongly
> recommend having sharing the next WGLC with the SPRING working group;
> perhaps more eyes will help with the discrepancies.
>
> I have not yet decided what to do about the "early" IANA allocation -
> which has now existed for this draft for 3 years.  I do know that there
> are implementations,
> but I am currently seeing the failure of this work to successfully
> complete as an example of an issue with providing early allocations.
>
> MAJOR ISSUES:
>
> 1) This draft has 7 authors.  The limit for authors & editors is 5, as
> is clearly stated in RFC 7322 Sec 4.1.1 and has been the case for well
> over a decade, unless there are extraordinary circumstances.  Is there a
> reason to not simply list the active editor and move the others to
> contributors?  One of the authors is already listed there.  I regret
> that failure to deal earlier with this long-standing IETF policy will be
> delaying progressing the draft.

I don't know how to resolve this. I can not tell any of the coauthors 
that I'm going to drop him from the list after his contribution to this 
for several years. Two of us are marked as editors already.


>
> 2) This expired individual
> draft(draft-minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-protection-03) is listed as
> Informative - but IS ACTUALLY NORMATIVE since it DEFINES the
> "M-bit - When the bit is set, the binding represents a mirroring context
> as defined in [I-D.minto-rsvp-lsp-egress-fast-protection]."
>   Unfortunately, when I look there for the definition of a mirroring
> context, it doesn't exists.

Section 6 was removed.


>
> 3) The following Informative references expired several years ago and -
> being individual drafts - do not appear to convey the SPRING or TEAS WG
> consensus.
>     a)  draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-03 was
> replaced with draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-07 and there
> are considerable differences.

fixed

>     b) It is unclear what happened
> to draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-use-cases-01, but I do not see
> any successor - or reason for this individual draft to explain the
> OSPFv2 extensions more than work from the SPRING WG.

I replaced it with RFC7855.

>
> 4) Sec 3.3: Is it ok to advertise an SRLB TLV without advertising the
> SR-Algorithm TLV?  What is the expected behavior and assumptions by the
> receiver?

These are independent TLVs. Both are optional and there is no dependency 
between them.

>
> 5) Sec 3.4:  What happens if an SRMS Preference TLV is advertised
> without an SR-Algorithm TLV in the same scope?

SRMS Preference TLV is independent of the SR-Algorithm TLV.

The fact that SRMS provides mapping between addresses and SIDs, does not 
require SRMS to support SR at all. SRMS functionality can be run on a 
node that is never in the data path and as such does not need to support SR.


> I see that it says "For
> the purpose of the SRMS Preference Sub-TLV advertisement, AS scope
> flooding is required." but also provides for area scope flooding.  Some
> words clarifying the expected behavior would be useful.

   "For the purpose of the SRMS
    Preference Sub-TLV advertisement, AS scope flooding is required."

above refers to a generic case, where the SRMS can be located anywhere 
in the network, which means it can be in a different area.


    "If
    the SRMS advertisements from the SRMS server are only used inside the
    area to which the SRMS server is attached, area scope flooding may be
    used."

Above says that if the usage of the SRMS advertisements is bound to an 
area, area flooding is sufficient.

I added some more text to the first part above to make it clear that the 
is referring to the multi-area case.


>
> 6) Sec 5: "In such case, MPLS EXP bits of the Prefix-SID are not
> preserved for
> the final destination (the Prefix-SID being removed)."   I am quite
> startled to see an assumption that MPLS Pipe mode is being forced as
> part of specifying PHP mode!  This will also break any ECN or 3-color
> marking that has affected the MPLS EXP bits.  I would like to see and
> understand a clear justification for why short-pipe mode is being
> required instead of Uniform (or up to implementation/configuration.).
> Basically, this sentence means that transport considerations are a
> necessary section - which is completely inappropriate in an IGP draft.

sentence has been removed.

>
> 7) Sec 6: This section defines the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV - which
> appears to be a way to advertise an explicit path - and has a SID/Label
> by which the path can be entered.   How and what state is set up by the
> sending router to create the indicated segment is completely unclear.
> I have hunted
> through draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls,
> and draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop, RFC7855,
> and draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions.   As far as I can tell,
> NONE of them clearly describe the details of where and why this
> advertising is needed.  Obviously, this mechanism does allow the
> potential shortening of the MPLS label stack at the cost of advertising
> multi-hop explicit path segments across the entire area or AS.  There
> MUST be a normative description of what the sending router will do when
> a packet is received with the specified label.

section 6 has been removed.

>
> 8) Sec 4: "The Segment Routing Mapping Server, which is described in
> [I-D.filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop]"  Where precisely is
> an SRMS and its behavior/role actually defined?
>   draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop-07 claims:"SR to LDP
> interworking requires a SRMS as defined in
> [I-D.ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions]." but that wouldn't be
> appropriate, of course, and it isn't there either!
>   draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-04 talks about SRMS, but doesn't
> define it.   draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 mentions in Sec 3.5.1
> that "A Remote-Binding SID S advertised by the mapping server M" and
> refers to the ldp-interop draft for further details - but obviously not
> about an SRMS.


A new text has been added to filsfils-spring-segment-routing-ldp-interop 
to explain the SRMS better.

>
> Minor Issues:
>
> 1) In Sec 3.1, it says: "The SR-Algorithm TLV is optional. It MUST only
> be advertised once in the Router Information Opaque LSA.If the
> SID/Label Range TLV, as defined in Section 3.2, is advertised, then the
> SR-Algorithm TLV MUST

I removed the above sentence, it is not required. Following sentence in 
the draft clearly says:

"If the SR-Algorithm TLV is not advertised by the node, such node is 
considered as not being segment routing capable."

> also be advertised."  Please provide a pointer in the text to the
> behavior for a receiving router if one or both of these are violated?
> For the requirement to advertise the SR-Algorithm TLV, please clarify
> that this is in the same RI LSA as the SID/Label Range TLV was
> advertised & with the same scope.  What does it mean, in terms of the
> receiving router, to determine that the sending router supports SR or
> not - given the possibility of receiving other SR-related TLVS in an RI
> LSA without getting an SR-Algorithm TLV?

please see above.

>
> 2) Sec 3.1: The SR-Algorithm TLV simply defines "Length: Variable".
> Given that advertising Algorithm 0 is required, I'm fairly sure that the
> Length has to be a minimum of 1 - and, to prevent overrun & weird
> issues, let's have a reasonable maximum (for instance, 24) too.  It
> wouldn't hurt to remind readers that the length is just that of the
> value field - though experienced OSPF implementers will know that.

I added "dependent on number of Algorithms advertised".

But I'm not sure why would we want to limit ourselves to 24 or any 
specific length.

>
> 3) Sec 3.1 & Sec 3.2 & Sec 3.3: "For the purpose of SR-Algorithm TLV
> advertisement, area scope flooding is required." and "For the purpose of
> SID/Label Range TLV advertisement, area scope flooding is required."
>   and "For the purpose of SR Local Block Sub-TLV TLV advertisement, area
> scope flooding is required." Please capitalize REQUIRED as per RFC
> 2119.  Otherwise, please explain behavior when area scope isn't used.

I change to REQUIRED.

I'm not sure why do we need to explain what happens if other scope is 
used, when we say what is REQUIRED. If someone uses link scope, 
information would not be propagated where it needs to be present. If 
someone uses AS scope the information would go to places where it is not 
needed. Do we need to say that explicitly in the draft? We used teh same 
wording in other RFCs, without describing what happens if the REQUIRED 
is not followed.


>
> 4) Sec 3.2:  The SID/Label Range TLV doesn't indicate that include a
> SID/Label sub-TLV is required - but I don't understand how it could be
> interpreted otherwise; nor does it indicate what to do if there are
> multiple SID/Label sub-TLVs included in a single SID/Label Range TLV.

added text that the SID/Label sub-TLV MUST be included

I also added some text about handling of multiple SID/Label TLVs.



> Again "Length" is just defined as variable.  In this case, it clearly
> can't be less than 11 (probably 12, assuming padding to the 32-bit
> boundary).   It would be useful to have an upper-bound on length, but at
> least here I can see the argument that meaningful flexibility is
> provided for.

I added "dependent on sub-TLVs.", which we used in rfc7684

>
> 5) SID index is used without introduction in Sec 3.2.  It isn't defined
> in the terminology of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11 and the other
> uses of it in this document aren't enough to clearly define it.  Please
> add at least a description of its meaning before use - in a terminology
> section, if necessary.

Added some text at the beginning of section 3.2.

>
> 6) Sec 3.2: "The originating router advertises the following ranges:
>           Range 1: [100, 199]
>           Range 2: [1000, 1099]
>           Range 3: [500, 599]"
> Please turn this into the information actually advertised - i.e.
>     Range 1: Range Size: 100   SID/Label sub-TLV: 100  => meaning [100, 199]
> etc.

fixed.


>
> 7) 3.2. SID/Label Range TLV:  Please specify that the sender MUST NOT
> advertise overlapping ranges & how to handle the case when it does.
> This is required by draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution.

done.

>
> 8) Sec 3.3  SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV: The document doesn't specify
> that the SR Local Block TLV MUST include a SID/Label sub-TLV nor
> indicate what to do if multiple are included.

added text that the SID/Label sub-TLV MUST be included

I also added some text about multiple SID/Label TLVs being present.

> The Length, again, isn't
> specified at all and clearly has at least a minimum.

I added "dependent on sub-TLVs.", which we used in rfc7684


> I don't see a
> reference to an SR Local Block or the need to advertise it
> in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-11; perhaps I missed where the
> requirement and usage are defined?

The need for advertisement is described in latest version of 
draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls.

I also modified the text in OSPF draft to better describe the need for 
advertisemement.


>
> 9) Sec 3.3: "Each time a SID from the SRLB is allocated, it SHOULD also be
>     reported to all components..."  Presumably, this is subjected to the
> normal OSPF dampening - it'd be nice to note that somewhere - since
> rapid sequential allocation may not provide the reporting speed anticipated.


SRLB is something that is either configured or eventually tight to a 
platform. In neither case, this is not expected to change frequently.

>
> 10) Sec 4: "AF: Address family for the prefix. Currently, the only supported
>        value is 0 for IPv4 unicast.  The inclusion of address family in
>        this TLV allows for future extension."  Could you please clarify
> if this is to reuse the same TLV for OSPFv3 so IPv6 can be supported,
> are you thinking of extending OSPFv2 for IPv6 prefixes for some cases or
> something else?
> I think the current phrasing is likely to raise
> questions.

This mirrors what we have done for OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV in RFC768. 
We defined these top level containers in a way that they are extendible 
for other AFs.


> Similarly, please define "Prefix length: Length of the
> prefix" clearly.

changed to "Length of prefix in bits." to mirror RFC768.

> I really don't understand what the benefit of having a
> TLV that pretends to support multiple AFs but can't is versus the
> clarity of specifying the prefix lengths.

I fixed the Address Prefix encoding text to mirror RFC7684.

>
> 11) Sec 4:  Again "Length: Variable" - It should have a minimum and
> preferable describe a function for how it is computed.  A maximum is
> probably unlikely  with sub-TLVs.

I added "dependent on sub-TLVs.", which we used in rfc7684


>
> 12) Sec 4: OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV:  Does this TLV has any
> meaning or action associated with it without including sub-TLVs?

no.

> Are
> there mandatory sub-TLVs?  What is a receiving router to do with it?

no. If it's empty, router just stores it in LSDB and do not use it for 
anything.

>
> 13) Sec 5: "If multiple Prefix-SIDs are advertised for the same prefix, the
>    receiving router MUST use the first encoded SID and MAY use
>    subsequent SIDs."  What does this even mean?  A receiving router when
> making the decision to use a subsequent SID is making a decision to not
> use the first encoded SID; it's not like the router is going to stick
> both SID/Labels onto the stack.   Please describe this in meaningful
> normative terms.

replaced that text with a new one.

>
> 14) Sec 5:" When calculating the outgoing label for the prefix, the
> router MUST
>     take into account the E and P flags advertised by the next-hop router
>     if that router advertised the SID for the prefix.  This MUST be done
>     regardless of whether the next-hop router contributes to the best
>     path to the prefix."  First, I assume this is "NP flag" because
> there is no P flag.

corrected

>     Second - please clarify to "take into account, as described below,
> the E and NP flags...".

done



 >Third, the M flag must also be taken into
> account - given the text later in the section.

corrected

>
> 15) Sec 5: "When a Prefix-SID is advertised in an Extended Prefix Range
> TLV, then the value advertised in the Prefix SID Sub-TLV is interpreted as a
>     starting SID value."   This appears to contradict "SID/Index/Label:
> According to the V and L flags, it contains either:
>
>           A 32-bit index defining the offset in the SID/Label space
>           advertised by this router.
>
>           A 24-bit label where the 20 rightmost bits are used for
>           encoding the label value."

I added changed the text to:

"Prefix SID Sub-TLV is interpreted as a starting SID/Label value", which 
I believe should be sufficient.

>    I assume that what is meant by the first quote is "...is interpreted,
> if the V flag is clear, as a starting SID value, and if the V flag is
> set, as a starting Label value."
> Otherwise, it looks like the
> Prefix-SID sub-TLV couldn't be included in the Extended Prefix Range TLV
> if a label value would be used.
> It would be helpful for Example 2 to show the label case.
>
> 16) Sec 6.1: "aggregate IGP or TE path cost."  Given that this is an
> OSPF draft, it'd be helpful to indicate whether there are challenges
> with non-comparable OSPF metrics (I'm thinking about AS-external type 2
> costs) or if the path will never include such costs.

section 6 was removed

>
> 17) Sec 6.2: "a domain and hence need to be disambiguated using a
> domain-unique Router-ID."  Given that the Prefix-SIDs and sub-TLVs can
> be distributed between areas and even redistributed between protocols,
> please clearly define what is meant by a "domain" or point to the
> appropriate definition.

section 6 was removed


>
> 18) Sec 4, 5, 6:  Is it possible to have an OSPF Extended Prefix Range
> TLV that includes both a Prefix SID Sub-TLV and a SID/Label Binding
> Sub-TLV?   What does that mean?

SID/Label Binding TLV was removed.

>
> What does it mean if there are multiple prefixes described in the OSPF
> Extended Prefix Range TLV that includes a SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV?
> Does the SID/Label sub-sub-TLV indicate a single SID Index or Label that
> is used for the single path to all those prefixes?  Is it the start of a
> list of SID Indices or Labels?
> I see that the SID/Label Binding sub-TLV can be in both the OSPF
> Extended Prefx Range TLV as well as the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV - but
> there is no text on differences in interpretation.

SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV was removed


>
> 19) Sec 7.1 & 7.2: Another  couple "Length: Variable."  Please actually
> specify the value. I think that, given the padding to 32-bit alignment,
> there is a single correct value.

fixed.

>
> 20) Sec 7.1 and 7.2: Given that the Flag bits have exactly the same
> meaning - it'd be clearer to have them defined once.

done

>
> 21) Sec 8.1: "An SR Mapping Server MUST use the OSPF Extended Prefix
> Range TLV when advertising SIDs for prefixes.  Prefixes of different
> route-types can be combined in a single OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV
> advertised by an SR Mapping Server."    So - I can't find a normative
> definition of an SRMS to determine why it is always necessary to use an
> OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV instead of an OSPF Extended Prefix TLV.

for simplicity we only want to use OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV when 
advertising SRMS mapping entries. It's the encoding we enforced for SRMS 
advertisement.

> I don't see how advertising prefixes from different route-types can work
> unless the prefixes are adjacent, which seems likely to be uncommon.
> Perhaps what is meant is "Because the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV
> doesn't include a Route-Type field, as in the OSPF Extended Prefix TLV,
> it is possible to include adjacent prefixes from different Route-Types
> in the OSPF Extended Prefix Range TLV."

yes, that is correct. I added the above text to the draft.

>
> 22) Sec 8.1: "If multiple routers advertise a Prefix-SID for the same
> prefix, then
> the Prefix-SID MUST be the same.  This is required in order to allow
> traffic load-balancing when multiple equal cost paths to the destination
> exist in the OSPFv2 routing domain."  How is this enforced?  What are
> the consequences of it not being conformed to?  This is NOT a protocol
> implementation requirement.  This should really be called out in a
> Manageability Considerations with warnings.

I removed the above text.

>
> 23) Sec 8.2:"If no Prefix-SID was advertised for the prefix in the
> source area
>        by the router that contributes to the best path to the prefix, the
>        originating ABR will use the Prefix-SID advertised by any other
>        router when propagating the Prefix-SID for the prefix to other
>        areas."  I believe that this depends on the assumption that if a
> Prefix-SID is advertised by any router, the Prefix-SID will be the
> same.  Please be explicit in this assumption, since the requirement on
> the network operator should be clear as well as the consequences of not
> conforming.

above text says that the prefix SID may come from different router then 
the one which is contributing to the best path, if the router that 
contributes to the best path is not advertising the SID. No assumption 
about multiple SIDs being the same is made.

>
> 24) Sec 10:  The Implementation Status section should indicate that it
> is to be removed before publication as an RFC.   Also, the complete
> implementation part seems a bit dated - given the draft's technical
> changes in the last 2 years.

I added a sentence about this section being removed before publication.

>
>
> NITS:
>
> 1) Sec 2.1: s/"SID/Label TLV"/"SID/Label sub-TLV"

fixed all of them
>
> 2) Sec 3.2:"Initially, the only supported Sub-TLV is the SID/Label TLV
> as defined
>     in Section 2.1.  The SID/Label advertised in the SID/Label TLV
>     represents the first SID/Label in the advertised range."
>     replace SID/Label TLV with SID/Label sub-TLV.

done.

>
> 3) Sec 3.3 & Sec 3.4: " The SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV is a top-level
> TLV of the Router Information Opaque LSA (defined in [RFC7770])."
> Please correct the descriptions (many) to SR Local Block (SRLB) Sub-TLV
> to SR Local Block SRLB TLV.   The same issue exists for "SRMS Preference
> Sub-TLV".

I updated the text to use the expanded name first time and use 
abbreviated name in other places.

thanks,
Peter


>
> Regards,
> Alia
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSPF mailing list
> OSPF@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>


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To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions@ietf.org>, "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" <aretana@cisco.com>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTSI)" <db3546@att.com>, "spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <spring-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for OSPFv2 Segment Routing - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17
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Subject: [OSPF] Working Group Last Call for OSPFv2 Segment Routing - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-17
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From nobody Fri Jun 23 17:10:55 2017
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From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org>
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Subject: [OSPF] ospf - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 99
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Dear Acee Lindem,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

ospf Session 1 (2:00:00)
    Tuesday, Afternoon Session I 1330-1530
    Room Name: Karlin I/II size: 150
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Open Shortest Path First IGP
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Acee Lindem

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2 Hours
Number of Attendees: 75
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: idr isis rtgwg spring
 Second Priority: netmod bess bier pim
 Third Priority: mboned grow lisp


People who must be present:
  Acee Lindem
  Abhay Roy
  Alia Atlas

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Fri Jun 23 18:39:36 2017
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Subject: [OSPF] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the IETF.

        Title           : Advertising Tunneling Capability in OSPF
        Authors         : Xiaohu Xu
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Robert Raszuk
                          Luis M. Contreras
                          Luay Jalil
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2017-06-23

Abstract:
   Networks use tunnels for a variety of reasons.  A large variety of
   tunnel types are defined and the ingress needs to select a type of
   tunnel which is supported by the egress and itself.  This document
   defines how to advertise egress tunnel capabilities in OSPF Router
   Information Link State Advertisement (LSAs).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Jun 26 02:59:55 2017
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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
Thread-Index: AQHS6dmmivGCj9gSOUOIMMtroKuKN6I21iYw
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 09:59:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:51:52 +0000
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-hbit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-hbit@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 22:45:26 +0000
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Subject: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-hbit@ietf.org>
CC: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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From: "Manish Bhardwaj (manbhard)" <manbhard@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-hbit@ietf.org>
CC: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 23:20:10 +0000
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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No IPR I am aware of.

-Manish.

On 6/26/17, 3:50 PM, "OSPF on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)"
<ospf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of acee@cisco.com> wrote:

>Corrected draft alias - reply to this one.
>
>On 6/26/17, 6:45 PM, "OSPF on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)"
><ospf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>>Authors,
>>
>>If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to
>>this email stating whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. The
>>response needs to be sent to the OSPF mailing list. The document will
>>not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from
>>each author and each individual that has contributed to the document.
>>=20
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Acee
>>
>>
>>
>>On 6/14/17, 3:48 PM, "OSPF on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)"
>><ospf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The question of OSPFv2 complete blocking of transit routing support
>>>(similar to OSPFv3) seems to come up every year or so. I=B9d like to WG
>>>last
>>>call this document. Does anyone see any issues?
>>>Thanks,
>>>Acee=20
>>>
>>>On 6/14/17, 12:44 PM, "OSPF on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org"
>>><ospf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>>>>directories.
>>>>This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the
>>>>IETF.
>>>>
>>>>        Title           : H-bit Support for OSPFv2
>>>>        Authors         : Keyur Patel
>>>>                          Padma Pillay-Esnault
>>>>                          Manish Bhardwaj
>>>>                          Serpil Bayraktar
>>>>	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03.txt
>>>>	Pages           : 8
>>>>	Date            : 2017-06-14
>>>>
>>>>Abstract:
>>>>   OSPFv3 defines an option field for router-LSAs known as a R-bit in
>>>>   RFC5340.  If the R-bit is clear, an OSPFv3 router can participate in
>>>>   OSPF topology distribution without acting as a forwarder to forward
>>>>   the transit traffic.  In such cases, an OSPF router would only
>>>>accept
>>>>   traffic intended for local delivery.  This draft defines R-bit
>>>>   functionality for OSPFv2 defined in RFC2328.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit/
>>>>
>>>>There are also htmlized versions available at:
>>>>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03
>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03
>>>>
>>>>A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>>>https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit-03
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>>submission
>>>>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>>
>>>>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>>>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>OSPF mailing list
>>>>OSPF@ietf.org
>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OSPF mailing list
>>>OSPF@ietf.org
>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OSPF mailing list
>>OSPF@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf
>
>_______________________________________________
>OSPF mailing list
>OSPF@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf


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From: Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-hbit@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ospf/sFTxWw8Mnvw5NheMsmxsfF8lpDk>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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From: Padmadevi Pillay Esnault <padma@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv2-hbit@ietf.org>
CC: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, Padmadevi Pillay Esnault <padma@huawei.com>,  Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com>
Thread-Topic: [OSPF] IPR Call for "H-Support for OSPFv2"
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CC: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-06.txt
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-ospf-bier-extensions-06.txt
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 17:09:03 -0400
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To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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Hi Bruno,

Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:59 AM, <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Alia,
>
> Many thanks for the useful review.
> -04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of
> comments.
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04
>
>
>
> Main changes:
> - aligning with  I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.
> - adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field,
> UDP Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called "IPv4 D=
S
> Field" in the IDR draft. I've commented on IDR that this is IPv4 specific
> with no IPv6 counterpart.


[Alia] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.6) is wrong - it's just
copied from Sec 6.5.
I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS field to represent both IPv6 as
well as IPv4; it also just talks about the DS field - but that's 6 bits.
Are the ECN bits included?  That's a conversation for IDR.


> Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP and IGP draft to be aligned.
> - removed registry "IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type" and pointing to
> existing registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type"
> - (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped i=
n
> a dedicated section (=C2=A76)
> - clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in
> I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint.
> - color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)
> - added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
> (=C2=A77)
> - a significant rule added: " A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no
> route toward the IP address
>    specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not advertised
>    by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
>    advertising this tunnel. "
>
>
> Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous answe=
r:
>
> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM
> [...]
> > (does variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues
> for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???)
>
> I guess that you are referring to
> "   o  Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number of octets of the
>       sub-TLV value field.  The Sub-TLV Length field contains 1 octet if
>       the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range from 1-127.
>       The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Sub-TLV Type
>       field contains a value in the range from 128-254."
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-
> tunnel-encaps-06#section-2
>
> The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:
>     " Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indicating the
>       total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field."
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04#section-5


[Alia] I think that there is still clarification on what to do if (in the
future) a sub-TLV that
used the 2-octet length couldn't fit into a 1-octet length. I know this is
currently hypothetical,
so all I'm looking for is a statement about the difference and that such
sub-TLVs are not supported
without further extensions.



> > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings
>
> Agreed.
> Note however that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, because
> the Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of various
> SAFI with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case,
> labeled/unlabeled...) and their interaction with the different kind of
> tunnels (GRT vs VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). This is not the case in the I=
GP
> draft which only signals the tunnel itself (discovery, parameters).
>

[Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.
What isn't clear though is how tunnels that require setup are handled.  In
Sec 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I see
"The tunnel type is supported (i.e., router R knows how to set up tunnels
of that type, how to create the encapsulation header for tunnels of that
type, etc.)" as part of the discussion of what is a "feasible" tunnel.
Similar language would help in Sec 7.

[Alia] Finally, from a process perspective, I think that there has been
sufficient technical change that another short WGLC is appropriate.  Please
do update the draft first.  Then, we can do an IETF Last Call targeting an
IESG telechat in August.

Regards,
Alia



> Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.
>
> Regards,
> --Bruno
>
> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]  > Sent: Tuesday, June 20,
> 2017 5:27 PM
> >
>  > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hi Alia,
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response inline.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.co=
m <akatlas@gmail.com>]
>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8815=
=E6=97=A5 6:56
>  > > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsul=
ation-cap@ietf.org
>  > > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-c=
ap-03
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-
>  > > encapsulation-cap-03.
>  > >
>  > > First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert,
> Luis,
>  > > and Luay - for their work on this useful document.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the draft can
>  > > progress.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.
>  > >
>  > > Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and better t=
o
> not
>  > > create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP  Tunnel Encapsulation At=
tribute
> Types=E2=80=9D
>  > > but rather reuse the existing BGP one:
>  > >
>  > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/
>  > > bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types
>  > >
>  >
>  > Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I think
> this
>  > makes sense.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been defined, it has
> been
>  > > modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP extension i=
s
> been
>  > > redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which normativ=
e
>  > > reference should be use?
>  > >
>  > > - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as
>  > > draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may never be
>  > > published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think RFC 5512
> has not
>  > > been implemented hence we may question whether
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>  > > will be=E2=80=A6)
>  > >
>  > > - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps may
> obsolete
>  > > RFC 5512
>  > >
>  >
>  > Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I'm not
> quite
>  > as concerned.  That said, are you certain that there aren't explanatio=
ns
>  > and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps that
>  > aren't in RFC 5512?  Certainly, some of the tunnel types that were
>  > mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.
>  >
>  >
>  > > Major:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 1)  First, the draft talks about what information is sent - but
> nothing
>  > > about how it is to be understood or used.  That'd be ok if there wer=
e
> a
>  > > clear reference to a document that discussed the related procedures.
> A
>  > > quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 seems that it may be
> the
>  > > right place to start - but it's procedures are BGP-focused and while
> there
>  > > are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=C2=A75.1-=
=C2=A75.3) are
>  > > normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic and usage
>  > > standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in respectively
> the
>  > > following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel
> Types,
>  > > BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you comment, we
> need to
>  > > clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:
>  > >
>  > > The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its semantic
> and
>  > > usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-TLV define=
d
> in
>  > > RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color value
> expected to
>  > > represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >   Can a BGP route with a particular color extended community then
> have the
>  > > OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with the same
> color?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >   What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.  It=E2=80=99s a color use=
d to
> define
>  > > policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this color as a=
n
> input
>  > > for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use).
>  > >
>  > > We can add this text if needed.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > Yes, I think that is needed.  In BGP, since a route can have
> communities,
>  > it is easy to just have a "must match color" rule (though one could
> picture
>  > a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-color).  For OSPF, if
> the
>  > intention of the use for this information is an external application,
> that
>  > needs to be clearly stated.
>  >
>  > There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can actually
> use
>  > the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally what =
is
>  > missing in the document.
>  >
>  >    Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 ("However, suppose that
> one of
>  > > the TLVs in U2's Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contains the Color
>  > > Sub-TLV.  In that case, packet P SHOULD
>  > >
>  > >    NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1 =
is
>  > >    carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2's
>  > >    Color Sub-TLV.") doesn't seem to strictly apply.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be enough? If
> not,
>  > > a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of section 5.4 d=
efining
> this
>  > > color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any text.
> (rather than
>  > > trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)
>  > >
>  >
>  > I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to you.
> My
>  > review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what is
> there
>  > in the order and location it is presented.
>  >
>  >
>  > > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings=
,
> and
>  > > that is all this draft currently has.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 2)  Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsulation
> Sub-TLV
>  > > and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 -
> but
>  > > that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA
> registry
>  > > for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and
>  > > contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.   I'm nearly
> certain
>  > > that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format
> (*does
>  > > variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues fo=
r
> OSPF
>  > > sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs defined
> in
>  > > the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no
> reference to
>  > > the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the
> future
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bruno,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra">Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5=
:59 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Alia,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for the useful review.<br>
-04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of commen=
ts.<br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-<wbr=
>encapsulation-cap-04</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-=
<wbr>encapsulation-cap-04</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Main changes:<br>
- aligning with=C2=A0 I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.<br>
- adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field, UD=
P Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called &quot;IPv4 =
DS Field&quot; in the IDR draft. I&#39;ve commented on IDR that this is IPv=
4 specific with no IPv6 counterpart. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Alia=
] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.6) is wrong - it&#39;s just =
copied from Sec 6.5.</div><div>I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS =
field to represent both IPv6 as well as IPv4; it also just talks about the =
DS field - but that&#39;s 6 bits.=C2=A0 Are the ECN bits included?=C2=A0 Th=
at&#39;s a conversation for IDR.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP a=
nd IGP draft to be aligned.<br>
- removed registry &quot;IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot; and pointing t=
o existing registry &quot;BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot;<br>
- (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped in =
a dedicated section (=C2=A76)<br>
- clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in I-D.ietf=
-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint.<br>
- color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)<br>
- added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute (=
=C2=A77)<br>
- a significant rule added: &quot; A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no=
 route toward the IP address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not adver=
tised<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertising this tunnel. &quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous answer:=
<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@=
gmail.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM<br>
[...]<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-">&gt; (does variable length fields based upon the all=
ocated type cause issues for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???)<br>
<br>
</span>I guess that you are referring to<br>
&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number=
 of octets of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sub-TLV value field.=C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field co=
ntains 1 octet if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range f=
rom 1-127.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Su=
b-TLV Type<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 field contains a value in the range from 128-254.&quot=
;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-06#section-2" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.i=
etf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>tunnel-encaps-06#section-2</a><br=
>
<br>
The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot; Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indic=
ating the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field.&quo=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulat=
ion-cap-04#section-5" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap-04#sectio=
n-5</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Alia] I think that there is still =
clarification on what to do if (in the future) a sub-TLV that</div><div>use=
d the 2-octet length couldn&#39;t fit into a 1-octet length. I know this is=
 currently hypothetical,</div><div>so all I&#39;m looking for is a statemen=
t about the difference and that such sub-TLVs are not supported</div><div>w=
ithout further extensions.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"gmail-">
&gt; Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings<b=
r>
<br>
</span>Agreed.<br>
Note however that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, because th=
e Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of various SAFI =
with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case, labeled/un=
labeled...) and their interaction with the different kind of tunnels (GRT v=
s VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). This is not the case in the IGP draft which o=
nly signals the tunnel itself (discovery, parameters).<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>[Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.</div><div>What isn&#39;t c=
lear though is how tunnels that require setup are handled.=C2=A0 In Sec 5 o=
f draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I see=C2=A0</div><div>&quot;The tunnel t=
ype is supported (i.e., router R knows how to set up tunnels of that type, =
how to create the encapsulation header=C2=A0for tunnels of that type, etc.)=
&quot; as part of the discussion of what is a &quot;feasible&quot; tunnel. =
=C2=A0 Similar language would help in Sec 7.</div><div><br></div><div>[Alia=
] Finally, from a process perspective, I think that there has been sufficie=
nt technical change that another short WGLC is appropriate.=C2=A0 Please do=
 update the draft first.=C2=A0 Then, we can do an IETF Last Call targeting =
an IESG telechat in August.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Ali=
a</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">
<br>
Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
--Bruno<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@=
gmail.com</a>]=C2=A0 &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 5:27 PM<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-">&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
xuxiaohu@huawei.com">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Hi Alia,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response in=
line.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
</span>=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:=
<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:akatlas@gmail.com">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=
=9C=8815=E6=97=A5 6:56<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* OSPF List; <a href=3D"mail=
to:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org">draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulatio=
n-<wbr>cap@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encaps=
ulation-<wbr>cap-03<br>
<div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-osp=
f-<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; encapsulation-cap-03.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, R=
obert, Luis,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Luay - for their work on this useful document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the dr=
aft can<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; progress.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and=
 better to not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP=C2=A0 Tunnel En=
capsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=9D<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; but rather reuse the existing BGP one:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iana.org/<wbr>assignment=
s/bgp-parameters/</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<wbr>types<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I t=
hink this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; makes sense.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been define=
d, it has been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP ex=
tension is been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; reference should be use?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may n=
ever be<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think R=
FC 5512 has not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; been implemented hence we may question whether draft-ietf-i=
dr-tunnel-encaps<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; will be=E2=80=A6)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 may obsolete<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I&=
#39;m not quite<br>
=C2=A0&gt; as concerned.=C2=A0 That said, are you certain that there aren&#=
39;t explanations<br>
=C2=A0&gt; and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; aren&#39;t in RFC 5512?=C2=A0 Certainly, some of the tunnel type=
s that were<br>
=C2=A0&gt; mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Major:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 1)=C2=A0 First, the draft talks about what information is s=
ent - but nothing<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; about how it is to be understood or used.=C2=A0 That&#39;d =
be ok if there were a<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clear reference to a document that discussed the related pr=
ocedures.=C2=A0 A<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 seems th=
at it may be the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; right place to start - but it&#39;s procedures are BGP-focu=
sed and while there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; are many similarities, there may be interesting differences=
 as well.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=
=C2=A75.1-=C2=A75.3) are<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic an=
d usage<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in resp=
ectively the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribu=
te Tunnel Types,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you com=
ment, we need to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its =
semantic and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-T=
LV defined in<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color va=
lue expected to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Can a BGP route with a particular color extende=
d community then have the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with th=
e same color?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF c=
ontext?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=
=99s a color used to define<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this c=
olor as an input<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use)=
.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; We can add this text if needed.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Yes, I think that is needed.=C2=A0 In BGP, since a route can hav=
e communities,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; it is easy to just have a &quot;must match color&quot; rule (tho=
ugh one could picture<br>
=C2=A0&gt; a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-<wbr>color).=C2=
=A0 For OSPF, if the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; intention of the use for this information is an external applica=
tion, that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; needs to be clearly stated.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can ac=
tually use<br>
=C2=A0&gt; the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally=
 what is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; missing in the document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 (&quo=
t;However, suppose that one of<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; the TLVs in U2&#39;s Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contain=
s the Color<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In that case, packet P SHOULD<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in t=
hat TLV, unless U1 is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 carrying the Color Extended Community that is =
identified in U2&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Color Sub-TLV.&quot;) doesn&#39;t seem to stri=
ctly apply.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be e=
nough? If not,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of sect=
ion 5.4 defining this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any te=
xt. (rather than<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to=
 you.=C2=A0 My<br>
=C2=A0&gt; review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what=
 is there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; in the order and location it is presented.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the =
encodings, and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that is all this draft currently has.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 2)=C2=A0 Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Enc=
apsulation Sub-TLV<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-<wbr>06 - but<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an =
IANA registry<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the fo=
rmat and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0I&#39;m nearly certain<br>
</div></div>=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merel=
y the same format (*does<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; variable length fields based upon th=
e allocated type cause issues for OSPF<br>
</span>=C2=A0&gt; &gt; sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and =
sub-TLVs defined in<br>
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:30:09 -0400
Message-ID: <CAG4d1reTWATBUMSU8R6_FgpsvwLebrBkdt+AYN-vQTXhYtKE+A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
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Hi Bruno,

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 8:31 AM, <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Alia,
>
>
>
> More inline [Bruno2]
>
>
>
> *From:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:09 PM
> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN
> *Cc:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org; Xuxiaohu
> *Subject:* Re: AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
>
>
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:59 AM, <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Alia,
>
> Many thanks for the useful review.
> -04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of
> comments.
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04
>
>
>
> Main changes:
> - aligning with  I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.
> - adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field,
> UDP Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called "IPv4 D=
S
> Field" in the IDR draft. I've commented on IDR that this is IPv4 specific
> with no IPv6 counterpart.
>
>
>
> [Alia] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.6) is wrong - it's
> just copied from Sec 6.5.
>
> [Bruno2] thanks, fixed
>
> I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS field to represent both IPv6
> as well as IPv4; it also just talks about the DS field - but that's 6
> bits.  Are the ECN bits included?  That's a conversation for IDR.
>
> [Bruno2] agreed (that=E2=80=99s for IDR)
>
>
>
> Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP and IGP draft to be aligned.
> - removed registry "IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type" and pointing to
> existing registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type"
> - (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped i=
n
> a dedicated section (=C2=A76)
> - clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in
> I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint.
> - color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)
> - added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
> (=C2=A77)
> - a significant rule added: " A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no
> route toward the IP address
>    specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not advertised
>    by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
>    advertising this tunnel. "
>
>
> Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous answe=
r:
>
> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM
> [...]
> > (does variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues
> for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???)
>
> I guess that you are referring to
> "   o  Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number of octets of the
>       sub-TLV value field.  The Sub-TLV Length field contains 1 octet if
>       the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range from 1-127.
>       The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Sub-TLV Type
>       field contains a value in the range from 128-254."
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-
> tunnel-encaps-06#section-2
>
> The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:
>     " Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indicating the
>       total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field."
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap-04#section-5
>
>
>
> [Alia] I think that there is still clarification on what to do if (in the
> future) a sub-TLV that
>
> used the 2-octet length couldn't fit into a 1-octet length. I know this i=
s
> currently hypothetical,
>
> so all I'm looking for is a statement about the difference and that such
> sub-TLVs are not supported
>
> without further extensions.
>
>
>
>  [Bruno2] There are 2 =E2=80=9CTunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=
=9D registries:
>
> - one for BGP, which allow length of 1 or 2 octets (as per the
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 because RFC 5512 only allowed for 1 octet=
)
>
> - one for IGP, which allow length of 1 octet
>
>
>
> For the IGP, there is no provision/future possibility to use a two-octets
>  length sub-TLV.
>
> So yes, the length is limited, but this is not specific to this sub-TLV.
> All IGP/IETF/ISO=E2=80=A6. TLVs share the same limitation that the size o=
f the
> length field is predefined and fixed. So nothing new IMHO.
>
> The only specific thing with this document is the filiation with the BGP
> document. If BGP were to define a two-octets length sub-TLV, it could not
> be retro-fitted in the IGP. One option would be to split the information
> into multiple sub-TLVs, but this is still limited. Is this this relation
> with the BGP sub-TLV that you=E2=80=99d like to be highlighted? If so, I =
can
> propose a new section
>
> =E2=80=9C6.7 Future sub-TLV
>
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps similarly defines Tunnel Encapsulation
> Attribute Sub-TLVs but IGP and BGP have separate IANA registries allowing
> for separate sub-TLV definitions. If the same information is to be
> advertised for both IGP and BGP tunnel encapsulation, it=E2=80=99s RECOMM=
ENDED to
> use the same syntax, semantic and code point. However, it is to be noted
> that the "BGP Tunnel
>
>    Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs" registry allows for sub-TLV with two
> octets of length, while the =E2=80=9CIGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute T=
ypes=E2=80=9D
> registry only allows to octet of length. Hence the two-octets BGP Tunnel
>
>    Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs won=E2=80=99t be able to be defined f=
or IGP
> Tunnels. Eventually, their information may be split over multiple
> sub-TLVs.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Is this what you are looking for?
>
> Alternatively the IGP registry could also define such two lengths, but to
> be honest, I=E2=80=99m reluctant to introduce such a =E2=80=9Chack=E2=80=
=9D in IGP. I would fear
> bugs with the introduction of a type having a two-octet length, with
> possibly significant consequences in a link state IGP.
>
>
>
> BTW, I=E2=80=99ve just noticed that BGP and IGP registries have different=
 names as
> the name of the BGP registry has changed since RFC 5512. I=E2=80=99m fixi=
ng this
>
> OLD: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types
>
> NEW: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs
>
>
[Alia] I thought the draft was now using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
Attribute Sub-TLVs??
This draft just needs a statement that says "In BGP, as defined in
[draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps], Sub-TLVs with types 128-254 have a
two-octet length field.  In OSPF, there is no support for a two-octet
length field; sub-TLVs in this range cannot be used in OSPF unless the
value field's length is known to fit in one octet."


>
>
> > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings
>
> Agreed.
> Note however that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, because
> the Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of various
> SAFI with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case,
> labeled/unlabeled...) and their interaction with the different kind of
> tunnels (GRT vs VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). This is not the case in the I=
GP
> draft which only signals the tunnel itself (discovery, parameters).
>
>
>
> [Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.
>
> What isn't clear though is how tunnels that require setup are handled.  I=
n
> Sec 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I see
>
> "The tunnel type is supported (i.e., router R knows how to set up tunnels
> of that type, how to create the encapsulation header for tunnels of that
> type, etc.)" as part of the discussion of what is a "feasible" tunnel.
> Similar language would help in Sec 7.
>
> [Bruno2]
>
> Both IDR and OSPF drafts have the same text regarding tunnel setup: =E2=
=80=9C   Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of an explic=
it
>
>    tunnel setup protocol before they can be used for carrying data.
>
>    Other tunnel types may not require any tunnel setup protocol.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>

As the IDR draft defines the IANA registry for encapsulation type, it
also have the following sentence =E2=80=9CWhenever a new Tunnel Type TLV is
defined, the specification of that
>
>    TLV must describe (or reference) the procedures for creating the
>
>    encapsulation header used to forward packets through that tunnel
>
>    type. =C2=BB I don=E2=80=99t think that this is needed in the IGP draf=
t since it does not define such registry.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since you specifically refer to a text in section 5 of
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I think that for the ospf draft the
> related text is in section 7 and I=E2=80=99m proposing the following chan=
ge
>
> OLD: The decision to use that tunnel, is driven by policy on the ingress
> router.
>
> NEW: The decision to use that tunnel is driven by the capability of the
> ingress router to support the encapsulation type and the policy on the
> ingress router.
>

[Alia] That sounds good.


>
>
[Alia] Finally, from a process perspective, I think that there has been
> sufficient technical change that another short WGLC is appropriate.  Plea=
se
> do update the draft first.  Then, we can do an IETF Last Call targeting a=
n
> IESG telechat in August.
>
> [Bruno2] ok. Waiting for your feedback before uploading the new version.
>

[Alia] Please do.



> Thanks,
>
> Regards,
>
> --Bruno
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Alia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.
>
> Regards,
> --Bruno
>
> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]  > Sent: Tuesday, June 20,
> 2017 5:27 PM
> >
>  > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hi Alia,
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response inline.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.co=
m <akatlas@gmail.com>]
>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8815=
=E6=97=A5 6:56
>  > > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsul=
ation-cap@ietf.org
>  > > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-c=
ap-03
>
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-
>  > > encapsulation-cap-03.
>  > >
>  > > First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert,
> Luis,
>  > > and Luay - for their work on this useful document.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the draft can
>  > > progress.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.
>  > >
>  > > Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and better t=
o
> not
>  > > create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP  Tunnel Encapsulation At=
tribute
> Types=E2=80=9D
>  > > but rather reuse the existing BGP one:
>  > >
>  > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/
>  > > bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types
>  > >
>  >
>  > Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I think
> this
>  > makes sense.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been defined, it has
> been
>  > > modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP extension i=
s
> been
>  > > redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which normativ=
e
>  > > reference should be use?
>  > >
>  > > - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as
>  > > draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may never be
>  > > published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think RFC 5512
> has not
>  > > been implemented hence we may question whether
> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>  > > will be=E2=80=A6)
>  > >
>  > > - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps may
> obsolete
>  > > RFC 5512
>  > >
>  >
>  > Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I'm not
> quite
>  > as concerned.  That said, are you certain that there aren't explanatio=
ns
>  > and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps that
>  > aren't in RFC 5512?  Certainly, some of the tunnel types that were
>  > mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.
>  >
>  >
>  > > Major:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 1)  First, the draft talks about what information is sent - but
> nothing
>  > > about how it is to be understood or used.  That'd be ok if there wer=
e
> a
>  > > clear reference to a document that discussed the related procedures.
> A
>  > > quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 seems that it may be
> the
>  > > right place to start - but it's procedures are BGP-focused and while
> there
>  > > are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=C2=A75.1-=
=C2=A75.3) are
>  > > normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic and usage
>  > > standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in respectively
> the
>  > > following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunnel
> Types,
>  > > BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you comment, we
> need to
>  > > clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:
>  > >
>  > > The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its semantic
> and
>  > > usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-TLV define=
d
> in
>  > > RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color value
> expected to
>  > > represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >   Can a BGP route with a particular color extended community then
> have the
>  > > OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with the same
> color?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >   What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.  It=E2=80=99s a color use=
d to
> define
>  > > policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this color as a=
n
> input
>  > > for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use).
>  > >
>  > > We can add this text if needed.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > Yes, I think that is needed.  In BGP, since a route can have
> communities,
>  > it is easy to just have a "must match color" rule (though one could
> picture
>  > a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-color).  For OSPF, if
> the
>  > intention of the use for this information is an external application,
> that
>  > needs to be clearly stated.
>  >
>  > There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can actually
> use
>  > the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally what =
is
>  > missing in the document.
>  >
>  >    Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 ("However, suppose that
> one of
>  > > the TLVs in U2's Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contains the Color
>  > > Sub-TLV.  In that case, packet P SHOULD
>  > >
>  > >    NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1 =
is
>  > >    carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2's
>  > >    Color Sub-TLV.") doesn't seem to strictly apply.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be enough? If
> not,
>  > > a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of section 5.4 d=
efining
> this
>  > > color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any text.
> (rather than
>  > > trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)
>  > >
>  >
>  > I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to you.
> My
>  > review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what is
> there
>  > in the order and location it is presented.
>  >
>  >
>  > > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings=
,
> and
>  > > that is all this draft currently has.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > 2)  Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsulation
> Sub-TLV
>  > > and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 -
> but
>  > > that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA
> registry
>  > > for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and
>  > > contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.   I'm nearly
> certain
>
>  > > that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format
> (*does
>  > > variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues fo=
r
> OSPF
>  > > sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs defined
> in
>  > > the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no
> reference to
>  > > the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the
> future
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _____________________________________________________________
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bruno,<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 8:31 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.=
com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Hi Alia,<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">More inlin=
e [Bruno2]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Alia Atl=
as [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@g=
mail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> OSPF List; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap@ietf.org<=
/a>; Xuxiaohu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap-03<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Bruno,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:59 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Alia,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for the useful review.<br>
-04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of commen=
ts.<br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" target=3D"_blank">https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap-04=
</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-=
cap-04</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Main changes:<br>
- aligning with=C2=A0 I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.<br>
- adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field, UD=
P Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called &quot;IPv4 =
DS Field&quot; in the IDR draft. I&#39;ve commented on IDR that this is IPv=
4 specific with no IPv6 counterpart.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.=
6) is wrong - it&#39;s just copied from Sec 6.5.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Br=
uno2] thanks, fixed</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS field to=
 represent both IPv6 as well as IPv4; it also just talks about the DS field=
 - but that&#39;s 6 bits.=C2=A0 Are the ECN bits included?=C2=A0 That&#39;s=
 a conversation for IDR.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Br=
uno2] agreed (that=E2=80=99s for IDR)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP and IGP =
draft to be aligned.<br>
- removed registry &quot;IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot; and pointing t=
o existing registry &quot;BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot;<br>
- (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped in =
a dedicated section (=C2=A76)<br>
- clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in I-D.ietf=
-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint.<br>
- color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)<br>
- added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute (=
=C2=A77)<br>
- a significant rule added: &quot; A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no=
 route toward the IP address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not adver=
tised<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertising this tunnel. &quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous answer:=
<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM<br>
[...]<br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">&gt; (does variable length fie=
lds based upon the allocated type cause issues for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???)=
</span><br>
<br>
I guess that you are referring to<br>
&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number=
 of octets of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sub-TLV value field.=C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field co=
ntains 1 octet if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range f=
rom 1-127.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Su=
b-TLV Type<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 field contains a value in the range from 128-254.&quot=
;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-06#section-2" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>tunnel-encaps-06#section-2</a><br>
<br>
The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot; Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indic=
ating the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field.&quo=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulat=
ion-cap-04#section-5" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>d=
oc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap-04#section-5</a><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] I think that there is still clarification on =
what to do if (in the future) a sub-TLV that<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">used the 2-octet length couldn&#39;t fit into a 1-oc=
tet length. I know this is currently hypothetical,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">so all I&#39;m looking for is a statement about the =
difference and that such sub-TLVs are not supported<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">without further extensions.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Bruno2] There are 2 =E2=80=9CTunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute Types=E2=80=9D registries:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">- one for =
BGP, which allow length of 1 or 2 octets (as per the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-=
encaps-<wbr>06 because RFC 5512 only allowed for 1 octet)<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">- one for =
IGP, which allow length of 1 octet<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">For the IG=
P, there is no provision/future possibility to use a two-octets =C2=A0lengt=
h sub-TLV.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">So yes, th=
e length is limited, but this is not specific to this sub-TLV. All IGP/IETF=
/ISO=E2=80=A6. TLVs share the same limitation that the size of the
 length field is predefined and fixed. So nothing new IMHO.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The only s=
pecific thing with this document is the filiation with the BGP document. If=
 BGP were to define a two-octets length sub-TLV, it could
 not be retro-fitted in the IGP. One option would be to split the informati=
on into multiple sub-TLVs, but this is still limited. Is this this relation=
 with the BGP sub-TLV that you=E2=80=99d like to be highlighted? If so, I c=
an propose a new section<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=E2=80=9C6.7 Future sub-T=
LV<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1f497d">draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps similarly defines Tunnel Enc=
apsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs but IGP and BGP have separate
 IANA registries allowing for separate sub-TLV definitions. If the same inf=
ormation is to be advertised for both IGP and BGP tunnel encapsulation, it=
=E2=80=99s RECOMMENDED to use the same syntax, semantic and code point. How=
ever, it is to be noted that the &quot;BGP Tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs&quot; regis=
try allows for sub-TLV with two octets of length, while the =E2=80=9CIGP Tu=
nnel Encapsulation
 Attribute Types=E2=80=9D registry only allows to octet of length. Hence th=
e two-octets BGP Tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs won=E2=80=99t be able to be defined fo=
r IGP Tunnels. Eventually, their information may be split over multiple sub=
-TLVs.=E2=80=9D
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Is this wh=
at you are looking for?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Alternativ=
ely the IGP registry could also define such two lengths, but to be honest, =
I=E2=80=99m reluctant to introduce such a =E2=80=9Chack=E2=80=9D in IGP. I =
would fear
 bugs with the introduction of a type having a two-octet length, with possi=
bly significant consequences in a link state IGP.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">BTW, I=E2=
=80=99ve just noticed that BGP and IGP registries have different names as t=
he name of the BGP registry has changed since RFC 5512. I=E2=80=99m fixing
 this<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">OLD: IGP T=
unnel Encapsulation Attribute Types<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">NEW: IGP T=
unnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>[Alia] I thought the draft was now using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulati=
on Attribute Sub-TLVs??</div><div>This draft just needs a statement that sa=
ys &quot;In BGP, as defined in [draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps], Sub-TLVs wit=
h types 128-254 have a two-octet length field.=C2=A0 In OSPF, there is no s=
upport for a two-octet length field; sub-TLVs in this range cannot be used =
in OSPF unless the value field&#39;s length is known to fit in one octet.&q=
uot;</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" =
link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318WordSect=
ion1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div><span class=3D"">
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just t=
he encodings</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
Agreed.<br>
Note h</span>owever that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, bec=
ause the Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of variou=
s SAFI with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case, lab=
eled/unlabeled...) and their interaction
 with the different kind of tunnels (GRT vs VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). Thi=
s is not the case in the IGP draft which only signals the tunnel itself (di=
scovery, parameters).<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What isn&#39;t clear though is how tunnels that requ=
ire setup are handled.=C2=A0 In Sec 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>=
06, I see=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&quot;The tunnel type is supported (i.e., router R k=
nows how to set up tunnels of that type, how to create the encapsulation he=
ader=C2=A0for tunnels of that type, etc.)&quot; as part of the discussion o=
f what is a &quot;feasible&quot; tunnel. =C2=A0 Similar language
 would help in Sec 7.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno2=
]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Both IDR and OSPF drafts =
have the same text regarding tunnel setup: =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of =
an explicit<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 tunnel setup protocol before t=
hey can be used for carrying data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Other tunnel types may not req=
uire any tunnel setup protocol.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=
=C2=A0</span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" v=
link=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1"><div styl=
e=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u></=
span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">As the IDR draft defines =
the IANA registry for encapsulation type, it also have the following senten=
ce =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Whenever a new Tunnel Type TLV is d=
efined, the specification of that<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV must describe (or reference) the=
 procedures for creating the<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation header used to forward=
 packets through that tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 type.=C2=A0=C2=BB <span style=3D"col=
or:#1f497d">I don=E2=80=99t think that this is needed in the IGP draft sinc=
e it does not define such registry.<u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Since you =
specifically refer to a text in section 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<=
wbr>06, I think that for the ospf draft the related text is in
 section 7 and I=E2=80=99m proposing the following change<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">OLD: The d=
ecision to use that tunnel, is driven by policy on the ingress router.<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">NEW: The d=
ecision to use that tunnel is driven by the capability of the ingress route=
r to support the encapsulation type and the policy on the
 ingress router.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>[Alia] That sounds good.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-4559=
364344027937318WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid bl=
ue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<br></p></=
div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR=
" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318WordSe=
ction1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#1f497d"><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[Alia] Finally, from a process =
perspective, I think that there has been sufficient technical change that a=
nother short WGLC is appropriate.=C2=A0
</span>Please do update the draft first.=C2=A0 Then, we can do an IETF Last=
 Call targeting an IESG telechat in August.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Br=
uno2] ok. Waiting for your feedback before uploading the new version.</span=
></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Alia] Please=
 do.<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font=
-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple"><div cla=
ss=3D"m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-=
left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thanks,<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">--Bruno<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alia<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
--Bruno<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>]=C2=A0 &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 =
5:27 PM<br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">&gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; On Mon, Jun 19, 201=
7 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu@huawei.com" target=3D=
"_blank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Hi Alia,</span=
><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Thanks a lot f=
or your AD review. Please see our response inline.</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;</span><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:MingLiU">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA</span>**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:MingLiU">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=
=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>**:* 2017<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&q=
uot;">=E5=B9=B4</span>6<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=
=E6=9C=88</span>15<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=97=
=A5</span> 6:56<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E6=94=
=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>**:* OSPF List; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-os=
pf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;MS Gothic&quot;">=E4=B8=
=BB</span><span style=3D"font-family:MingLiU">=E9=A2=98</span>**:* AD revie=
w of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap-03<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-osp=
f-<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; encapsulation-cap-03.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, R=
obert, Luis,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Luay - for their work on this useful document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the dr=
aft can<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; progress.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and=
 better to not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP=C2=A0 Tunnel En=
capsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=9D<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; but rather reuse the existing BGP one:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iana.org/<wbr>assignments/bgp-parameters/</=
a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-<wbr>types<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I t=
hink this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; makes sense.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been define=
d, it has been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP ex=
tension is been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; reference should be use?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may n=
ever be<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think R=
FC 5512 has not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; been implemented hence we may question whether draft-ietf-i=
dr-tunnel-encaps<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; will be=E2=80=A6)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 may obsolete<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I&=
#39;m not quite<br>
=C2=A0&gt; as concerned.=C2=A0 That said, are you certain that there aren&#=
39;t explanations<br>
=C2=A0&gt; and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; aren&#39;t in RFC 5512?=C2=A0 Certainly, some of the tunnel type=
s that were<br>
=C2=A0&gt; mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Major:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 1)=C2=A0 First, the draft talks about what information is s=
ent - but nothing<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; about how it is to be understood or used.=C2=A0 That&#39;d =
be ok if there were a<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clear reference to a document that discussed the related pr=
ocedures.=C2=A0 A<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 seems th=
at it may be the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; right place to start - but it&#39;s procedures are BGP-focu=
sed and while there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; are many similarities, there may be interesting differences=
 as well.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=
=C2=A75.1-=C2=A75.3) are<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic an=
d usage<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in resp=
ectively the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribu=
te Tunnel Types,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you com=
ment, we need to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its =
semantic and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-T=
LV defined in<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color va=
lue expected to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Can a BGP route with a particular color extende=
d community then have the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with th=
e same color?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF c=
ontext?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=
=99s a color used to define<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this c=
olor as an input<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use)=
.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; We can add this text if needed.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Yes, I think that is needed.=C2=A0 In BGP, since a route can hav=
e communities,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; it is easy to just have a &quot;must match color&quot; rule (tho=
ugh one could picture<br>
=C2=A0&gt; a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-<wbr>color).=C2=
=A0 For OSPF, if the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; intention of the use for this information is an external applica=
tion, that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; needs to be clearly stated.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can ac=
tually use<br>
=C2=A0&gt; the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally=
 what is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; missing in the document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-<wbr>06 (&quo=
t;However, suppose that one of<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; the TLVs in U2&#39;s Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contain=
s the Color<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In that case, packet P SHOULD<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in t=
hat TLV, unless U1 is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 carrying the Color Extended Community that is =
identified in U2&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Color Sub-TLV.&quot;) doesn&#39;t seem to stri=
ctly apply.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be e=
nough? If not,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of sect=
ion 5.4 defining this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any te=
xt. (rather than<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to=
 you.=C2=A0 My<br>
=C2=A0&gt; review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what=
 is there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; in the order and location it is presented.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the =
encodings, and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that is all this draft currently has.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 2)=C2=A0 Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Enc=
apsulation Sub-TLV<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-<wbr>06 - but<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an =
IANA registry<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the fo=
rmat and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0I&#39;m nearly certain<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that =
you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (*does<br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; variable lengt=
h fields based upon the allocated type cause issues for OSPF</span><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLV=
s defined in<br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; the relevant I=
ANA registry. As it is written now, there is no reference to</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; the registry o=
r ability to easily support more tunnel types in the future</span><br>
<br>
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:59:21 -0400
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Cc: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
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Hi Acee,

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote=
:

> Hi Alia, Bruno,
>
> From: OSPF <ospf-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Alia Atlas <
> akatlas@gmail.com>
> Date: Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:30 AM
> To: Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
> Cc: OSPF WG List <ospf@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-
> encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSPF] AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
>
> Hi Bruno,
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 8:31 AM, <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alia,
>>
>>
>>
>> More inline [Bruno2]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:09 PM
>> *To:* DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN
>> *Cc:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org; Xuxiaohu
>> *Subject:* Re: AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-03
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bruno,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:59 AM, <bruno.decraene@orange.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alia,
>>
>> Many thanks for the useful review.
>> -04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of
>> comments.
>> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/
>> doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04
>> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?
>> url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04
>>
>>
>>
>> Main changes:
>> - aligning with  I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.
>> - adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field,
>> UDP Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called "IPv4 =
DS
>> Field" in the IDR draft. I've commented on IDR that this is IPv4 specifi=
c
>> with no IPv6 counterpart.
>>
>>
>>
>> [Alia] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.6) is wrong - it's
>> just copied from Sec 6.5.
>>
>> [Bruno2] thanks, fixed
>>
>> I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS field to represent both IPv6
>> as well as IPv4; it also just talks about the DS field - but that's 6
>> bits.  Are the ECN bits included?  That's a conversation for IDR.
>>
>> [Bruno2] agreed (that=E2=80=99s for IDR)
>>
>>
>>
>> Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP and IGP draft to be aligned.
>> - removed registry "IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type" and pointing to
>> existing registry "BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type"
>> - (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped
>> in a dedicated section (=C2=A76)
>> - clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in
>> I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint=
.
>> - color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)
>> - added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
>> (=C2=A77)
>> - a significant rule added: " A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no
>> route toward the IP address
>>    specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not advertised
>>    by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute
>>    advertising this tunnel. "
>>
>>
>> Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous
>> answer:
>>
>> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM
>> [...]
>> > (does variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issue=
s
>> for OSPF sub-TLV parsing???)
>>
>> I guess that you are referring to
>> "   o  Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number of octets of the
>>       sub-TLV value field.  The Sub-TLV Length field contains 1 octet if
>>       the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range from 1-127.
>>       The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Sub-TLV Type
>>       field contains a value in the range from 128-254."
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-
>> encaps-06#section-2
>>
>> The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:
>>     " Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indicating the
>>       total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field."
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encaps
>> ulation-cap-04#section-5
>>
>>
>>
>> [Alia] I think that there is still clarification on what to do if (in th=
e
>> future) a sub-TLV that
>>
>> used the 2-octet length couldn't fit into a 1-octet length. I know this
>> is currently hypothetical,
>>
>> so all I'm looking for is a statement about the difference and that such
>> sub-TLVs are not supported
>>
>> without further extensions.
>>
>>
>>
>>  [Bruno2] There are 2 =E2=80=9CTunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types=E2=
=80=9D registries:
>>
>> - one for BGP, which allow length of 1 or 2 octets (as per the
>> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 because RFC 5512 only allowed for 1
>> octet)
>>
>> - one for IGP, which allow length of 1 octet
>>
> Even though it is unlikely to be required, can we just go with 2 octet
> type and length for the tunnel attribute Sub-TLVs consistent with the TLV
> format in RFC 7770? Seems like this would simplify things =E2=80=93 I gue=
ss we are
> worried about IS-IS consistency?
>

That works too & is a cleaner solution.  I had forgotten about the sizes of
sub-tlvs in RFC 7770.

Thank you,
Alia



> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> For the IGP, there is no provision/future possibility to use a two-octet=
s
>>  length sub-TLV.
>>
>> So yes, the length is limited, but this is not specific to this sub-TLV.
>> All IGP/IETF/ISO=E2=80=A6. TLVs share the same limitation that the size =
of the
>> length field is predefined and fixed. So nothing new IMHO.
>>
>> The only specific thing with this document is the filiation with the BGP
>> document. If BGP were to define a two-octets length sub-TLV, it could no=
t
>> be retro-fitted in the IGP. One option would be to split the information
>> into multiple sub-TLVs, but this is still limited. Is this this relation
>> with the BGP sub-TLV that you=E2=80=99d like to be highlighted? If so, I=
 can
>> propose a new section
>>
>> =E2=80=9C6.7 Future sub-TLV
>>
>> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps similarly defines Tunnel Encapsulation
>> Attribute Sub-TLVs but IGP and BGP have separate IANA registries allowin=
g
>> for separate sub-TLV definitions. If the same information is to be
>> advertised for both IGP and BGP tunnel encapsulation, it=E2=80=99s RECOM=
MENDED to
>> use the same syntax, semantic and code point. However, it is to be noted
>> that the "BGP Tunnel
>>
>>    Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs" registry allows for sub-TLV with tw=
o
>> octets of length, while the =E2=80=9CIGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute =
Types=E2=80=9D
>> registry only allows to octet of length. Hence the two-octets BGP Tunnel
>>
>>    Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs won=E2=80=99t be able to be defined =
for IGP
>> Tunnels. Eventually, their information may be split over multiple
>> sub-TLVs.=E2=80=9D
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this what you are looking for?
>>
>> Alternatively the IGP registry could also define such two lengths, but t=
o
>> be honest, I=E2=80=99m reluctant to introduce such a =E2=80=9Chack=E2=80=
=9D in IGP. I would fear
>> bugs with the introduction of a type having a two-octet length, with
>> possibly significant consequences in a link state IGP.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, I=E2=80=99ve just noticed that BGP and IGP registries have differen=
t names
>> as the name of the BGP registry has changed since RFC 5512. I=E2=80=99m =
fixing this
>>
>> OLD: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types
>>
>> NEW: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs
>>
>>
> [Alia] I thought the draft was now using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation
> Attribute Sub-TLVs??
> This draft just needs a statement that says "In BGP, as defined in
> [draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps], Sub-TLVs with types 128-254 have a
> two-octet length field.  In OSPF, there is no support for a two-octet
> length field; sub-TLVs in this range cannot be used in OSPF unless the
> value field's length is known to fit in one octet."
>
>
>>
>>
>> > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the encodings
>>
>> Agreed.
>> Note however that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, because
>> the Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of various
>> SAFI with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case,
>> labeled/unlabeled...) and their interaction with the different kind of
>> tunnels (GRT vs VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). This is not the case in the =
IGP
>> draft which only signals the tunnel itself (discovery, parameters).
>>
>>
>>
>> [Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.
>>
>> What isn't clear though is how tunnels that require setup are handled.
>> In Sec 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I see
>>
>> "The tunnel type is supported (i.e., router R knows how to set up tunnel=
s
>> of that type, how to create the encapsulation header for tunnels of that
>> type, etc.)" as part of the discussion of what is a "feasible" tunnel.
>> Similar language would help in Sec 7.
>>
>> [Bruno2]
>>
>> Both IDR and OSPF drafts have the same text regarding tunnel setup: =E2=
=80=9C   Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of an explic=
it
>>
>>    tunnel setup protocol before they can be used for carrying data.
>>
>>    Other tunnel types may not require any tunnel setup protocol.=E2=80=
=9D
>>
>>
>>
>
> As the IDR draft defines the IANA registry for encapsulation type, it als=
o have the following sentence =E2=80=9CWhenever a new Tunnel Type TLV is de=
fined, the specification of that
>>
>>    TLV must describe (or reference) the procedures for creating the
>>
>>    encapsulation header used to forward packets through that tunnel
>>
>>    type. =C2=BB I don=E2=80=99t think that this is needed in the IGP dra=
ft since it does not define such registry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Since you specifically refer to a text in section 5 of
>> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06, I think that for the ospf draft the
>> related text is in section 7 and I=E2=80=99m proposing the following cha=
nge
>>
>> OLD: The decision to use that tunnel, is driven by policy on the ingress
>> router.
>>
>> NEW: The decision to use that tunnel is driven by the capability of the
>> ingress router to support the encapsulation type and the policy on the
>> ingress router.
>>
>
> [Alia] That sounds good.
>
>
>>
>>
> [Alia] Finally, from a process perspective, I think that there has been
>> sufficient technical change that another short WGLC is appropriate.  Ple=
ase
>> do update the draft first.  Then, we can do an IETF Last Call targeting =
an
>> IESG telechat in August.
>>
>> [Bruno2] ok. Waiting for your feedback before uploading the new version.
>>
>
> [Alia] Please do.
>
>
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Alia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --Bruno
>>
>> > From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]  > Sent: Tuesday, June 20,
>> 2017 5:27 PM
>> >
>>  > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote=
:
>>  >
>>  > > Hi Alia,
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response inline.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.c=
om <akatlas@gmail.com>]
>>  > > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4**:* 2017=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8815=
=E6=97=A5 6:56
>>  > > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* OSPF List; draft-ietf-ospf-encapsu=
lation-cap@ietf.org
>>  > > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-=
cap-03
>>
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-
>>  > > encapsulation-cap-03.
>>  > >
>>  > > First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, Robert,
>> Luis,
>>  > > and Luay - for their work on this useful document.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the draft can
>>  > > progress.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.
>>  > >
>>  > > Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and better
>> to not
>>  > > create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP  Tunnel Encapsulation A=
ttribute
>> Types=E2=80=9D
>>  > > but rather reuse the existing BGP one:
>>  > >
>>  > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/
>>  > > bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-types
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  > Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I think
>> this
>>  > makes sense.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been defined, it ha=
s
>> been
>>  > > modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP extension
>> is been
>>  > > redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which normati=
ve
>>  > > reference should be use?
>>  > >
>>  > > - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as
>>  > > draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may never be
>>  > > published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think RFC 5512
>> has not
>>  > > been implemented hence we may question whether
>> draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps
>>  > > will be=E2=80=A6)
>>  > >
>>  > > - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps may
>> obsolete
>>  > > RFC 5512
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  > Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I'm not
>> quite
>>  > as concerned.  That said, are you certain that there aren't
>> explanations
>>  > and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps that
>>  > aren't in RFC 5512?  Certainly, some of the tunnel types that were
>>  > mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > Major:
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > 1)  First, the draft talks about what information is sent - but
>> nothing
>>  > > about how it is to be understood or used.  That'd be ok if there
>> were a
>>  > > clear reference to a document that discussed the related
>> procedures.  A
>>  > > quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 seems that it may be
>> the
>>  > > right place to start - but it's procedures are BGP-focused and whil=
e
>> there
>>  > > are many similarities, there may be interesting differences as well=
.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=C2=A75.1-=
=C2=A75.3) are
>>  > > normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic and usage
>>  > > standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in respectively
>> the
>>  > > following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Tunne=
l
>> Types,
>>  > > BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you comment, we
>> need to
>>  > > clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:
>>  > >
>>  > > The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its semantic
>> and
>>  > > usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-TLV
>> defined in
>>  > > RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color value
>> expected to
>>  > > represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >   Can a BGP route with a particular color extended community then
>> have the
>>  > > OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with the same
>> color?
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >   What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF context?
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.  It=E2=80=99s a color us=
ed to
>> define
>>  > > policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this color as
>> an input
>>  > > for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use).
>>  > >
>>  > > We can add this text if needed.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > Yes, I think that is needed.  In BGP, since a route can have
>> communities,
>>  > it is easy to just have a "must match color" rule (though one could
>> picture
>>  > a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-color).  For OSPF,
>> if the
>>  > intention of the use for this information is an external application,
>> that
>>  > needs to be clearly stated.
>>  >
>>  > There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can actuall=
y
>> use
>>  > the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally what
>> is
>>  > missing in the document.
>>  >
>>  >    Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 ("However, suppose that
>> one of
>>  > > the TLVs in U2's Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contains the Color
>>  > > Sub-TLV.  In that case, packet P SHOULD
>>  > >
>>  > >    NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in that TLV, unless U1
>> is
>>  > >    carrying the Color Extended Community that is identified in U2's
>>  > >    Color Sub-TLV.") doesn't seem to strictly apply.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be enough? I=
f
>> not,
>>  > > a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of section 5.4 =
defining
>> this
>>  > > color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any text.
>> (rather than
>>  > > trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  > I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to you.
>> My
>>  > review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what is
>> there
>>  > in the order and location it is presented.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the
>> encodings, and
>>  > > that is all this draft currently has.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > 2)  Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Encapsulation
>> Sub-TLV
>>  > > and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-06 -
>> but
>>  > > that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an IANA
>> registry
>>  > > for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the format and
>>  > > contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.   I'm nearly
>> certain
>>
>>  > > that you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format
>> (*does
>>  > > variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues
>> for OSPF
>>  > > sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLVs define=
d
>> in
>>  > > the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no
>> reference to
>>  > > the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the
>> future
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> _____________________________________________________________
>>
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>> ________________________________________________________________________=
_________________________________________________
>>
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ecu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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ou falsifie. Merci.
>>
>> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
>> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and d=
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--001a11467e3e2d025a05532f8015
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Acee,<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hi Alia, Bruno,=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"m_-2778209138883579526OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>OSPF &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:os=
pf-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on beh=
alf of Alia Atlas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:3=
0 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>OSPF WG List &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ospf@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ospf@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf=
-ospf-<wbr>encapsulation-cap@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [OSPF] AD review of dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap-03<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"m_-2778209138883579526MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"=
 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bruno,
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 8:31 AM, <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno=
.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Alia,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">More inline [Bruno2]<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,=
sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahom=
a,sans-serif"> Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> DECRAENE Bruno IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc:</b> OSPF List; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">
draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap@ietf.org</a>; Xuxiaohu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap-03<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Bruno,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the updated draft - more in-line.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:59 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:bruno.decraene@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">bruno.decraene@orange.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Alia,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for the useful review.<br>
-04 has just been published. I believe it address your first pass of commen=
ts.<br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" target=3D"_blank">https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encap<wbr>sulation-cap-04=
</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap-04" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ospf-encapsula<wbr>tion-=
cap-04</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Main changes:<br>
- aligning with=C2=A0 I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps rather than RFC 5512.<br>
- adding 2 sub-TLV coming from I-D.ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps: IP QoS Field, UD=
P Destination Port. Note that the first one is currently called &quot;IPv4 =
DS Field&quot; in the IDR draft. I&#39;ve commented on IDR that this is IPv=
4 specific with no IPv6 counterpart.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</span>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] The text for the UDP Destination Port (Sec 6.=
6) is wrong - it&#39;s just copied from Sec 6.5.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno2] thanks, fixed</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree with you on the need for the IP QoS field to=
 represent both IPv6 as well as IPv4; it also just talks about the DS field=
 - but that&#39;s 6 bits.=C2=A0 Are the ECN bits included?=C2=A0 That&#39;s=
 a conversation for IDR.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno2] agreed (that=E2=80=
=99s for IDR)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Waiting for the resolution. We need the BGP and IGP =
draft to be aligned.<br>
- removed registry &quot;IGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot; and pointing t=
o existing registry &quot;BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Type&quot;<br>
- (editorial) Sub-TLV of the Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute are grouped in =
a dedicated section (=C2=A76)<br>
- clarification that for all but one, those sub-TLV are defined in I-D.ietf=
-idr-tunnel-encaps, from a syntax, semantic and usage standpoint.<br>
- color Sub-TLV better defined (as not aligned with the IDR draft)<br>
- added a section about the usage of the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute (=
=C2=A77)<br>
- a significant rule added: &quot; A tunnel MUST NOT be used if there is no=
 route toward the IP address<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specified in the Endpoint Sub-TLV or if the route is not adver=
tised<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by the router advertising the Tunnel Encapsulation attribute<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertising this tunnel. &quot;<br>
<br>
<br>
Some follow up on some of your points that I had missed in previous answer:=
<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:56 AM<br>
[...]<br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">&gt; (do=
es variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues for OS=
PF sub-TLV parsing???)</span><br>
<br>
I guess that you are referring to<br>
&quot;=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Sub-TLV Length (1 or 2 octets): the total number=
 of octets of the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sub-TLV value field.=C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field co=
ntains 1 octet if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the Sub-TLV Type field contains a value in the range f=
rom 1-127.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Sub-TLV Length field contains two octets if the Su=
b-TLV Type<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 field contains a value in the range from 128-254.&quot=
;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-06#section-2" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d<wbr>oc/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-<wbr>encaps-06#section-2</a><br>
<br>
The IGP draft does not use this. It uses a fixed 1-octet length field:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot; Sub-TLV Length (1 octet): Unsigned 8-bit integer indic=
ating the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 total number of octets of the Sub-TLV value field.&quo=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulat=
ion-cap-04#section-5" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/d<wbr>=
oc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-encaps<wbr>ulation-cap-04#section-5</a><u></u><u></=
u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] I think that there is still clarification on =
what to do if (in the future) a sub-TLV that<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">used the 2-octet length couldn&#39;t fit into a 1-oc=
tet length. I know this is currently hypothetical,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">so all I&#39;m looking for is a statement about the =
difference and that such sub-TLVs are not supported<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">without further extensions.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,1=
25)">[Bruno2] There are 2 =E2=80=9CTunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types=E2=
=80=9D registries:
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,san=
s-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">- one for BGP, which allow le=
ngth of 1 or 2 octets (as per the draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0<wbr>6 beca=
use RFC 5512 only allowed for
 1 octet)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">- one for IGP, which allow le=
ngth of 1 octet</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></span>
<div>Even though it is unlikely to be required, can we just go with 2 octet=
 type and length for the tunnel attribute Sub-TLVs consistent with the TLV =
format in RFC 7770? Seems like this would simplify things =E2=80=93 I guess=
 we are worried about IS-IS consistency? =C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>That works too &amp; is a cleaner solution.=C2=A0 I =
had forgotten about the sizes of sub-tlvs in RFC 7770. =C2=A0=C2=A0</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Thank you,</div><div>Alia</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><div>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee=C2=A0</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"m_-2778209138883579526OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"m_-2778209138883579526MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE"=
 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#b5c4df 5 solid;PADDING:0 0 0 5;MARGIN:0 0 0 5">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">For the IGP, there is no prov=
ision/future possibility to use a two-octets =C2=A0length sub-TLV.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">So yes, the length is limited=
, but this is not specific to this sub-TLV. All IGP/IETF/ISO=E2=80=A6. TLVs=
 share the same limitation that the size
 of the length field is predefined and fixed. So nothing new IMHO.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The only specific thing with =
this document is the filiation with the BGP document. If BGP were to define=
 a two-octets length sub-TLV,
 it could not be retro-fitted in the IGP. One option would be to split the =
information into multiple sub-TLVs, but this is still limited. Is this this=
 relation with the BGP sub-TLV that you=E2=80=99d like to be highlighted? I=
f so, I can propose a new section<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=E2=80=9C6.7 Future sub-TLV<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">d=
raft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps similarly defines Tunnel Encapsulation Attribut=
e Sub-TLVs but IGP and BGP have
 separate IANA registries allowing for separate sub-TLV definitions. If the=
 same information is to be advertised for both IGP and BGP tunnel encapsula=
tion, it=E2=80=99s RECOMMENDED to use the same syntax, semantic and code po=
int. However, it is to be noted that the
 &quot;BGP Tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs&quot; registry allows for sub=
-TLV with two octets of length, while the =E2=80=9CIGP
 Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=9D registry only allows to octe=
t of length. Hence the two-octets BGP Tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encapsulation At=
tribute Sub-TLVs won=E2=80=99t be able to be defined for IGP Tunnels. Event=
ually, their information may be split over multiple
 sub-TLVs.=E2=80=9D <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Is this what you are looking =
for?
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Alternatively the IGP registr=
y could also define such two lengths, but to be honest, I=E2=80=99m relucta=
nt to introduce such a =E2=80=9Chack=E2=80=9D in IGP.
 I would fear bugs with the introduction of a type having a two-octet lengt=
h, with possibly significant consequences in a link state IGP.<u></u><u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">BTW, I=E2=80=99ve just notice=
d that BGP and IGP registries have different names as the name of the BGP r=
egistry has changed since RFC 5512. I=E2=80=99m
 fixing this<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">OLD: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation=
 Attribute Types<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">NEW: IGP Tunnel Encapsulation=
 Attribute Sub-TLVs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Alia] I thought the draft was now using the BGP Tunnel Encapsulation =
Attribute Sub-TLVs??</div>
<div>This draft just needs a statement that says &quot;In BGP, as defined i=
n [draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps]<wbr>, Sub-TLVs with types 128-254 have a t=
wo-octet length field.=C2=A0 In OSPF, there is no support for a two-octet l=
ength field; sub-TLVs in this range cannot be used
 in OSPF unless the value field&#39;s length is known to fit in one octet.&=
quot;</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<span>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-455936434402=
7937318gmail-"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; Semantics and behavior need to be =
specified - not just the encodings</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
Agreed.<br>
Note h</span>owever that the behavior is more complex in the BGP draft, bec=
ause the Tunnel Attribute is attached to BGP routes, which can be of variou=
s SAFI with their own semantic and usage (e.g. GRT vs VPN/overlay case, lab=
eled/unlabeled...) and their interaction
 with the different kind of tunnels (GRT vs VPN, labeled vs unlabeled). Thi=
s is not the case in the IGP draft which only signals the tunnel itself (di=
scovery, parameters).<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Alia] Sure - Sec 7 helps a lot.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What isn&#39;t clear though is how tunnels that requ=
ire setup are handled.=C2=A0 In Sec 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0<wbr=
>6, I see=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&quot;The tunnel type is supported (i.e., router R k=
nows how to set up tunnels of that type, how to create the encapsulation he=
ader=C2=A0for tunnels of that type, etc.)&quot; as part of the discussion o=
f what is a &quot;feasible&quot; tunnel. =C2=A0 Similar language
 would help in Sec 7.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Bruno2=
]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">Both IDR and OSPF drafts =
have the same text regarding tunnel setup: =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that some tunnel types may require the execution of =
an explicit<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 tunnel setup protocol before t=
hey can be used for carrying data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Other tunnel types may not req=
uire any tunnel setup protocol.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=
=C2=A0</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=
</span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">As the IDR draft defines =
the IANA registry for encapsulation type, it also have the following senten=
ce =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Whenever a new Tunnel Type TLV is d=
efined, the specification of that<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV must describe (or reference) the=
 procedures for creating the<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 encapsulation header used to forward=
 packets through that tunnel<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0=C2=A0 type.=C2=A0=C2=BB <span style=3D"col=
or:#1f497d">I don=E2=80=99t think that this is needed in the IGP draft sinc=
e it does not define such registry.<u></u><u></u></span></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since you specifically refer =
to a text in section 5 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0<wbr>6, I think tha=
t for the ospf draft the related
 text is in section 7 and I=E2=80=99m proposing the following change<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">OLD: The decision to use that=
 tunnel, is driven by policy on the ingress router.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">NEW: The decision to use that=
 tunnel is driven by the capability of the ingress router to support the en=
capsulation type and the policy
 on the ingress router.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Alia] That sounds good.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">[Alia] Finally, from a process =
perspective, I think that there has been sufficient technical change that a=
nother short WGLC is appropriate.=C2=A0
</span>Please do update the draft first.=C2=A0 Then, we can do an IETF Last=
 Call targeting an IESG telechat in August.<u></u><u></u></p>
</span>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Bruno2] ok. Waiting for your=
 feedback before uploading the new version.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>[Alia] Please do.<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Calib=
ri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">--Bruno<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Alia<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
Thanks again for the careful review and the useful comments.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
--Bruno<br>
<br>
&gt; From: Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>]=C2=A0 &gt; Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 =
5:27 PM<br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">&gt;</sp=
an><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Xuxiaohu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xuxiaohu=
@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">xuxiaohu@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><br=
>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt; Hi Alia,</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt; Thanks a lot for your AD review. Please see our response inline.</s=
pan><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt;</span><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:MingLiU">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=
=BA=BA</span>**:* Alia Atlas [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akatlas@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">akatlas@gmail.com</a>&gt;]<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:MingLiU">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=
=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>**:* 2017<span style=3D"font-family:&#39;\00ff2d\00ff=
33  \0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af&#39;,&#39;MS Gothic&#39;">=E5=B9=B4</span>=
6<span style=3D"font-family:&#39;\00ff2d\00ff33  \0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030=
af&#39;,&#39;MS Gothic&#39;">=E6=9C=88</span>15<span style=3D"font-family:&=
#39;\00ff2d\00ff33  \0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af&#39;,&#39;MS Gothic&#39;">=
=E6=97=A5</span> 6:56<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:&#39;\00ff2d\00ff33  \0030b4\00=
30b7\0030c3\0030af&#39;,&#39;MS Gothic&#39;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</s=
pan>**:* OSPF List;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-<wbr>cap@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; *<span style=3D"font-family:&#39;\00ff2d\00ff33  \0030b4\00=
30b7\0030c3\0030af&#39;,&#39;MS Gothic&#39;">=E4=B8=BB</span><span style=3D=
"font-family:MingLiU">=E9=A2=98</span>**:* AD review of draft-ietf-ospf-enc=
apsulation-<wbr>cap-03<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; As is customary, I have done my AD review of draft-ietf-osp=
f-<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; encapsulation-cap-03.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; First, I would like to thank the authors - Xiaohu, Bruno, R=
obert, Luis,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Luay - for their work on this useful document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; I do have a few concerns that need addressing before the dr=
aft can<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; progress.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Many thanks for your useful comments.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Following your comments, we believe it would be simpler and=
 better to not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; create a new IANA registry for =E2=80=9DIGP=C2=A0 Tunnel En=
capsulation Attribute Types=E2=80=9D<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; but rather reuse the existing BGP one:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-parameters/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://www.iana.org/assignmen<wbr>ts/bgp-parameters/</=
a><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; bgp-parameters.xhtml#tunnel-ty<wbr>pes<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Given that the sub-TLVs available depend on the tunnel type, I t=
hink this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; makes sense.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] BTW when this OSPF extension has been define=
d, it has been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; modeled based on RFC 5512. However, as of today, the BGP ex=
tension is been<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; redefined in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps, sometimes. Which=
 normative<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; reference should be use?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - as of today, RFC 5512 is probably the right one as<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps has not passed WG LC and may n=
ever be<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; published as RFC (IDR requires 2 implementations. I think R=
FC 5512 has not<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; been implemented hence we may question whether draft-ietf-i=
dr-tunnel-encaps<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; will be=E2=80=A6)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; - in some hypothetical future, draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 may obsolete<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Judging from the two partial implementations in the IDR wiki, I&=
#39;m not quite<br>
=C2=A0&gt; as concerned.=C2=A0 That said, are you certain that there aren&#=
39;t explanations<br>
=C2=A0&gt; and behaviors that are clarified in draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps=
 that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; aren&#39;t in RFC 5512?=C2=A0 Certainly, some of the tunnel type=
s that were<br>
=C2=A0&gt; mentioned in the OSPF registry are from the former.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Major:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 1)=C2=A0 First, the draft talks about what information is s=
ent - but nothing<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; about how it is to be understood or used.=C2=A0 That&#39;d =
be ok if there were a<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clear reference to a document that discussed the related pr=
ocedures.=C2=A0 A<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; quick scan of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0<wbr>6 seems th=
at it may be the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; right place to start - but it&#39;s procedures are BGP-focu=
sed and while there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; are many similarities, there may be interesting differences=
 as well.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] We=E2=80=99ll clarify that the 3 sub-TLV (=
=C2=A75.1-=C2=A75.3) are<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; normatively defined in RFC 5512, from a format, semantic an=
d usage<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; standpoint. And that there code point are allocated in resp=
ectively the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; following IANA registries: BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribu=
te Tunnel Types,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; BGP Tunnel Encapsulation Attribute Sub-TLVs. As per you com=
ment, we need to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; clarify the 5.4 color Sub-TLV. Proposed text:<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; The Color Sub-TLV value is a 4-octet unsigned integer. Its =
semantic and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; usage are the same as the Color Value, from the Color Sub-T=
LV defined in<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; RFC 5512 section 4.3 (*)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; For instance, for the Color sub-TLV, is the 4 byte color va=
lue expected to<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; represent the same meaning in OSPF as in BGP?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu]Yes.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Can a BGP route with a particular color extende=
d community then have the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; OSPF tunnel to use selected from only those tunnels with th=
e same color?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0What does the Color TLV mean in a purely OSPF c=
ontext?<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] idem as in the IDR context.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=
=99s a color used to define<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; policy. The application using those tunnels, may use this c=
olor as an input<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for its policy when choosing the tunnel to use (or not use)=
.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; We can add this text if needed.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; Yes, I think that is needed.=C2=A0 In BGP, since a route can hav=
e communities,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; it is easy to just have a &quot;must match color&quot; rule (tho=
ugh one could picture<br>
=C2=A0&gt; a community that means match-any-tunnel-but-this-colo<wbr>r).=C2=
=A0 For OSPF, if the<br>
=C2=A0&gt; intention of the use for this information is an external applica=
tion, that<br>
=C2=A0&gt; needs to be clearly stated.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; There needs to be enough text so that two implementations can ac=
tually use<br>
=C2=A0&gt; the functionality - not merely signal it - and that is generally=
 what is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; missing in the document.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sec 7 of draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps-0<wbr>6 (&quo=
t;However, suppose that one of<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; the TLVs in U2&#39;s Tunnel Encapsulation attribute contain=
s the Color<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Sub-TLV.=C2=A0 In that case, packet P SHOULD<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NOT be sent through the tunnel identified in t=
hat TLV, unless U1 is<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 carrying the Color Extended Community that is =
identified in U2&#39;s<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Color Sub-TLV.&quot;) doesn&#39;t seem to stri=
ctly apply.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; [Bruno/Xiaohu] Would new clarification added above (*) be e=
nough? If not,<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; a priori, I=E2=80=99d rather improve the definition of sect=
ion 5.4 defining this<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; color sub-TLV, in order for it to generally apply to any te=
xt. (rather than<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; trying to patch the specific above text from Sec 7)<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; I would be happy for you to fix it where makes the most sense to=
 you.=C2=A0 My<br>
=C2=A0&gt; review suffers from the usual issue of commenting mostly on what=
 is there<br>
=C2=A0&gt; in the order and location it is presented.<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; Semantics and behavior need to be specified - not just the =
encodings, and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that is all this draft currently has.<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt;<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; 2)=C2=A0 Sec 5.1 and Sec 5.2 refer to the format of the Enc=
apsulation Sub-TLV<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; and Protocol Sub-TLV coming from draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-enca=
ps-0<wbr>6 - but<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that draft defines not merely the format, but allocates an =
IANA registry<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; for additional sub-types that can appear and defines the fo=
rmat and<br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; contents of the sub-TLV based upon the tunnel type.=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0I&#39;m nearly certain<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0&gt; &gt; that =
you mean that these sub-tlvs use not merely the same format (*does<br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt; variable length fields based upon the allocated type cause issues f=
or OSPF</span><br>
=C2=A0&gt; &gt; sub-TLV parsing???*) but can contain any values and sub-TLV=
s defined in<br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt; the relevant IANA registry. As it is written now, there is no refer=
ence to</span><br>
<span class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526m_-4559364344027937318gmail-">=C2=A0&g=
t; &gt; the registry or ability to easily support more tunnel types in the =
future</span><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
_________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_<br>
<br>
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<br>
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<br>
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<br>
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.<br>
<br>
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;<br>
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<br>
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.<br>
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.<br>
Thank you.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-2778209138883579526h5">
<pre>______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>=
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a11467e3e2d025a05532f8015--


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To: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-encapsulation-cap@ietf.org>
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From nobody Fri Jun 30 10:26:33 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Open Shortest Path First IGP of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Extensions to Support Maximally Redundant Trees
        Authors         : Alia Atlas
                          Shraddha Hegde
                          Chris Bowers
                          Jeff Tantsura
                          Zhenbin Li
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-mrt-03.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2017-06-30

Abstract:
   This document specifies extensions to OSPF to support the distributed
   computation of Maximally Redundant Trees (MRT).  Some example uses of
   the MRTs include IP/LDP Fast-Reroute and global protection or live-
   live for multicast traffic.  The extensions indicate what MRT
   profile(s) each router supports.  Different MRT profiles can be
   defined to support different uses and to allow transitioning of
   capabilities.  An extension is introduced to flood MRT-Ineligible
   links, due to administrative policy.

   The need for a mechanism to allow routers to advertise a worst-case
   FIB compute/install time is well understood for controlling
   convergence.  This specification introduces the Controlled
   Convergence TLV to be carried in the Router Information LSA.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-mrt/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mrt-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-mrt-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-mrt-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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