From tharper@logitech.com Wed May 2 22:15:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB0721F85FC for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 22:15:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ULbwheYov-nT for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 22:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog131.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog131.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.247]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B86721F85FF for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 22:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob131.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT6IUVNTIuIFioxBXg95ON3DYokZ/MEpv@postini.com; Wed, 02 May 2012 22:15:01 PDT Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so1864514pbb.28 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 22:15:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=j6wakoTSX+xF8S4KmWBZ3UGFJIDraq2DG0/1lT5mwZI=; b=OAKLQP7b6XBbpqwSe3EQm9BMK1N4DmrXpJiNdY2raYmMfwm1WYrCk3URHW9YZnFd/m xC4rpj3q8fYCqQ9F61mgfn+WSf2ROeO8E+8YKmfpc9DZyRF+Z0IyRdc6cisQAdCcxGa9 hz1LHoDWP7PTZCgsqOwlQDvO4kuIZtcqkwXx4XN7TiIWREC4ECURFaTvH4GKN5uz+/zH 6xgvQMNlC6EiPAFMzWcRHtMygVyy4mwSmXQjU908/i1jftEjmHrW4y19qfPGCpRfUahn je9/YLKNfFVcP1b78gExiNlm9ksfInkIj6XAxF8zIdpWhIzsNGxHiC4fnEv988hgJrRP rUlA== Received: by 10.68.225.104 with SMTP id rj8mr3692615pbc.135.1336022100237; Wed, 02 May 2012 22:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (c-76-126-8-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [76.126.8.251]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y3sm4123642pbh.59.2012.05.02.22.14.59 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 May 2012 22:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FA21442.8030002@logitech.com> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 22:14:42 -0700 From: tom harper User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: payload@ietf.org References: <4F87D9B1.4000206@alvestrand.no> <4f8d1296.e950b40a.7abe.4224@mx.google.com> <4F8D1FF0.5050002@logitech.com> <4F969A29.3040908@logitech.com> <4f970f96.634cb40a.7e67.ffff8a0e@mx.google.com> <5B1A263B43E389479AB3DAC1EAF0C8F5024458@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1335303658.1928.3.camel@TesterTop4> <5B1A263B43E389479AB3DAC1EAF0C8F5025DC5@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <5B1A263B43E389479AB3DAC1EAF0C8F5025DC5@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnVmBzcGpQpQfhWvqgAbWyrehdzwVUBEGYG6+HuWcWWDYwSTrYrM/DrE+4jM/kvJEsJVV3s Subject: Re: [payload] VP8 payload, decoder processing capabilities X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: tharper@logitech.com List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 05:15:02 -0000 Has there been any follow up on this subject? I have seen a great deal of tangential discussion on the rtcweb list, but I am wondering if that discussion changes what is done here? It seemed like there was some consensus on this list about including max-mbps, max-fs, and max-fr type equivalents. And possibly the number of partitions used or equivalent? Regarding RFC 6236, it seems like so much of it is optional that it could just cause more interoperability problems than it could solve- but maybe I misinterpret the intent? The syntax itself seems promising as an alternative- was any final decision made about whether it would work in this particular case? Thanks! Tom On 4/25/2012 9:26 AM, Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis wrote: > Thanks Olivier. > > I was hoping to hear from someone at Google about this. > > BTW, there might be a misunderstanding here. What I have in mind is that a sender would offer a stream indicating how many coefficient partitions that stream uses, along with the frame size and rate (or whatever alternative such as pixel rate or macroblock rate the group decides on). A receiver would be able to decide based on this information whether or not it can decode the stream. The receiver might need at least a certain number of coefficient partitions to be able to decode a stream with a certain frame size& rate. > > Note 1: This does not apply to all receivers, but it might apply to some. > > Note 2: If the stream has more coefficient partitions than the receiver needs, that's not a problem, but if it has too few, that could potentially be a problem. > > In this scenario it doesn't matter whether the receiver's capability are static or dynamic; all that matters is that the receiver knows what its capabilities are at the time it decides whether or not it can decode the stream. > > If the concern is that the receiver's capability might be reduced after it starts to decode the stream, that opens a bigger issue that I was not trying to address. However, I don't think that concern applies to the specific question of how many coefficient partitions the stream has. If the receiver either requires a certain number of coefficient partitions initially, or anticipates that due to dynamic behavior it might require them in the future, it can use that information to decide whether or not to accept the stream. On the other hand, if the receiver might in the future require a smaller frame size& rate stream after the stream has started, that's another matter altogether. > > --Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis > Broadcom > > > -----Original Message----- > From: payload-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Olivier Crête > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:41 PM > To: payload@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [payload] VP8 payload, decoder processing capabilities > > On Tue, 2012-04-24 at 21:31 +0000, Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis wrote: >> I have another question about this. >> >> Background: >> In the VP8 bitstream spec, and in the payload draft, the use of multiple coefficient partitions is optional and not required. >> >> A VP8 decoder might use multi-threaded processing, such that it can achieve significantly greater throughput by decoding multiple coefficient partitions in parallel. Such a decoder might rely on the presence of a certain number of coefficient partitions in order to achieve a certain level of throughput. >> >> For example, some receiver might comprise a multi-threaded decoder that can decode 1920x1080p60 if the stream has at least four coefficient partitions, but if the stream has only one coefficient partition it might be limited to a significantly smaller product of frame size and frame rate. >> >> Question: With the current draft, how does a multi-threaded decoder know in advance how many coefficient partitions the stream uses, so it can decide whether it can decode a stream of a given frame size and frame rate? Or does this aspect not matter? > I think the receiver should include all of that in its SDP, maybe > something like: SamplesPerCoefficientPartition=X > MaxParallelCoeffficientPartitions=Y > > That said, I'm concerned that all of this is a really static view of > things, which is useful on a fixed device. But is completely pointless > when writing software that runs on a general purpose computer (such as a > desktop or a smartphone), in which case we want something more dynamic. > So maybe all of this discussion is mostly pointless and we should push > for a more dynamic solution (maybe some kind of RTCP feedback?) > From keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com Fri May 4 04:09:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA04921F86CA; Fri, 4 May 2012 04:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.342, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0EUZyG-RfBqM; Fri, 4 May 2012 04:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE34E21F8680; Fri, 4 May 2012 04:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.62]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q44B93rF023730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 4 May 2012 13:09:03 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSC3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.44]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.62]) with mapi; Fri, 4 May 2012 13:09:03 +0200 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: "avtext@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 13:08:59 +0200 Thread-Topic: AVTEXT (including PAYLOAD) proceedings from Paris Thread-Index: Ac0p5k5tMG57YnzETz6DJF4vjpYDFQ== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_EDC0A1AE77C57744B664A310A0B23AE227FECA5CFRMRSSXCHMBSC3d_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.84 Subject: [payload] AVTEXT (including PAYLOAD) proceedings from Paris X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:09:26 -0000 --_002_EDC0A1AE77C57744B664A310A0B23AE227FECA5CFRMRSSXCHMBSC3d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I attach after some delay (for which apologies) the draft version of these. If you have comments please send them soon, as we need to upload the offici= al version. 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.02 Message-ID: <20120507123617.21830.64210.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 05:36:17 -0700 Cc: payload@ietf.org Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 12:36:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads Workin= g Group of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload Format for G.718 Speech/Audio Author(s) : Glen Zorn Ye-Kui Wang Ari Lakaniemi Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2012-05-07 This document specifies the Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload format for the Embedded Variable Bit-Rate (EV-VBR) speech/ audio codec, specified in ITU-T G.718. A media type registration for this RTP payload format is also included. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718/ From glenzorn@gmail.com Mon May 7 05:41:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B8421F85C9 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:41:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8X8iRsEdk0qj for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f44.google.com (mail-pb0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC4C921F85C7 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pbcwy7 with SMTP id wy7so6664058pbc.31 for ; Mon, 07 May 2012 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y1TxS+ldRcpbz5EIqVHGorYidZGugcgqH+h5kWgZm08=; b=qpah4d1iBLEA1unBLLvH8CK7EDmlKklC0KzdlndeqOorYSpJtqLOACj0DSzffMlsDk jDUeRDY8wklG2odeR6vWBFtNd9LJ70vv676KPHuo/MeJUnoSuXjMGoQYUkshl+K+4rgN aEktPdRfbxNYgg+YEtkMYb6KgIOICRfderd1CuQBhoyGaemoYlumdVz26v3K1KdJ9vfF T1Ti3iTZ2joyrGSDpWqu/rn+3shvrshIiE+DqvbSc9qIi0cNDZ04Uil+ferB0uJSxSvq tENXlh3KYhfmDMWA5WcuieE2zz2m3re6FeTmifCbd5KKehGYUtRtnSvaXthB7MXqWhXx RiBg== Received: by 10.68.196.200 with SMTP id io8mr1914936pbc.91.1336394503723; Mon, 07 May 2012 05:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.98] (ppp-124-120-228-184.revip2.asianet.co.th. [124.120.228.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ky10sm11444840pbc.0.2012.05.07.05.41.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 May 2012 05:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FA7C302.4000707@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 19:41:38 +0700 From: Glen Zorn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: payload@ietf.org References: <20120507123617.21830.64210.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120507123617.21830.64210.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 12:41:44 -0000 On 05/07/2012 07:36 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : RTP Payload Format for G.718 Speech/Audio > Author(s) : Glen Zorn > Ye-Kui Wang > Ari Lakaniemi > Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt > Pages : 27 > Date : 2012-05-07 > > This document specifies the Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) > payload format for the Embedded Variable Bit-Rate (EV-VBR) speech/ > audio codec, specified in ITU-T G.718. A media type registration for > this RTP payload format is also included. This document has been on hold waiting input from ITU-T re: G.7018B for quite some time now. I suggest that we just take it to WGLC & publish w/o waiting any more. Opinions? From stewe@stewe.org Mon May 7 05:45:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C1D21F85D3 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:45:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.771 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.771 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.171, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bi7toWPkydo5 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5D121F85CE for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 05:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail44-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.237) by CH1EHSOBE013.bigfish.com (10.43.70.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:33 +0000 Received: from mail44-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail44-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4837C340369; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:33 +0000 (UTC) X-SpamScore: -36 X-BigFish: PS-36(zzbb2dI9371I1503M936eK1432N98dKzz1202h1082kzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944he5bh) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.240.133; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI Received-SPF: pass (mail44-ch1: domain of stewe.org designates 157.56.240.133 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.240.133; envelope-from=stewe@stewe.org; helo=BL2PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail44-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail44-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 133639473253064_4776; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS027.bigfish.com (snatpool3.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.225]) by mail44-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F2542010F; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.240.133) by CH1EHSMHS027.bigfish.com (10.43.70.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:31 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0710MB349.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.20]) by BL2PRD0710HT005.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.102.40]) with mapi id 14.16.0152.000; Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:43 +0000 From: Stephan Wenger To: Glen Zorn , "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHNLE4CnR+NNdAm10iOeBVQOhSMTJa+ROEAgAAiq4A= Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:45:43 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4FA7C302.4000707@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.255.102.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <975B663DBEAFC14DA0F0025D29B92F5F@namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: stewe.org Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 12:45:48 -0000 SG16 is meeting this week. Wait one more week, and you will know whether the ITU spec advances now. Stephan On 5.7.2012 14:41 , "Glen Zorn" wrote: >On 05/07/2012 07:36 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport >>Payloads Working Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : RTP Payload Format for G.718 Speech/Audio >> Author(s) : Glen Zorn >> Ye-Kui Wang >> Ari Lakaniemi >> Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt >> Pages : 27 >> Date : 2012-05-07 >> >> This document specifies the Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) >> payload format for the Embedded Variable Bit-Rate (EV-VBR) speech/ >> audio codec, specified in ITU-T G.718. A media type registration >>for >> this RTP payload format is also included. > >This document has been on hold waiting input from ITU-T re: G.7018B for >quite some time now. I suggest that we just take it to WGLC & publish >w/o waiting any more. Opinions? >_______________________________________________ >payload mailing list >payload@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > From glenzorn@gmail.com Mon May 7 06:19:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019E921F85D3 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 06:19:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Uyi6uK4I75t for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 06:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52CA821F85C5 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 06:19:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dacx6 with SMTP id x6so6448740dac.31 for ; Mon, 07 May 2012 06:19:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KEdtcIT5+4Wf6usEI9si2I7tXsd2uVbodprnwnKL5Vo=; b=qef0VaAAseu9rg0QcvulAMhbrr2qkMh2epDbz+uwhn//01rh8zCgP4uctiYY8Dz53P qGfqvU2xoAwuYIN04/qC0GEjhoILyl1DQHMTUUHgeJ4kJghaFVg0H347KoF3RLhU7Uij YjObav8LhT1uHuLrMjEky5VBW1dtaWXbQThMRMgaaVld+a80Rs2Z7Kia86+vGAy2STxR L6k5Cn1GL7Z1fXBhgOnUj+NUXef7bmqhmTlgioCy3aIHy/GEd+gen/U+VYypOJxfcAg/ noz+TC91+iOTC4oCzRZFl+eM/aSBRwA8WcSWRoiIyIYS5QiGQ4bPr9Td/UM7438C2J9a W6Hg== Received: by 10.68.129.131 with SMTP id nw3mr45416387pbb.150.1336396797692; Mon, 07 May 2012 06:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.98] (ppp-124-120-228-184.revip2.asianet.co.th. [124.120.228.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pl8sm18303402pbb.72.2012.05.07.06.19.54 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 May 2012 06:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FA7CBF8.4040701@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 20:19:52 +0700 From: Glen Zorn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephan Wenger References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 13:19:59 -0000 On 05/07/2012 07:45 PM, Stephan Wenger wrote: > SG16 is meeting this week. Wait one more week, and you will know whether > the ITU spec advances now. OK, but we also need somebody who will contribute text regarding the new stuff to the draft. > Stephan > > > On 5.7.2012 14:41 , "Glen Zorn" wrote: > >> On 05/07/2012 07:36 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport >>> Payloads Working Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : RTP Payload Format for G.718 Speech/Audio >>> Author(s) : Glen Zorn >>> Ye-Kui Wang >>> Ari Lakaniemi >>> Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt >>> Pages : 27 >>> Date : 2012-05-07 >>> >>> This document specifies the Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) >>> payload format for the Embedded Variable Bit-Rate (EV-VBR) speech/ >>> audio codec, specified in ITU-T G.718. A media type registration >>> for >>> this RTP payload format is also included. >> This document has been on hold waiting input from ITU-T re: G.7018B for >> quite some time now. I suggest that we just take it to WGLC& publish >> w/o waiting any more. Opinions? >> _______________________________________________ >> payload mailing list >> payload@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >> > From stewe@stewe.org Tue May 8 05:50:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F8421F84C3 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 05:50:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.758 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.758 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id auq9HEAFXQxK for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 05:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.185]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3322121F8535 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 05:50:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail126-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.225) by CH1EHSOBE008.bigfish.com (10.43.70.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:49:52 +0000 Received: from mail126-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail126-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2822720576 for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:49:52 +0000 (UTC) X-SpamScore: -36 X-BigFish: PS-36(zzbb2dI9371I1503M936eK1432N98dKzz1202h1082kzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2fh2a8h668h839h944he5bh) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.240.133; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:BL2PRD0710HT003.namprd07.prod.outlook.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI Received-SPF: pass (mail126-ch1: domain of stewe.org designates 157.56.240.133 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.240.133; envelope-from=stewe@stewe.org; helo=BL2PRD0710HT003.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ; .outlook.com ; Received: from mail126-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail126-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1336481389790056_15860; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:49:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (snatpool3.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.226]) by mail126-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD09E2C051C for ; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:49:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0710HT003.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (157.56.240.133) by CH1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (10.43.70.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:49:49 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0710MB349.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.1.237]) by BL2PRD0710HT003.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.102.38]) with mapi id 14.16.0152.000; Tue, 8 May 2012 12:50:02 +0000 From: Stephan Wenger To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHNLE4CnR+NNdAm10iOeBVQOhSMTJa+ROEAgAAiq4CAAZOHAA== Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:50:02 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.255.102.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: stewe.org Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 12:50:08 -0000 There was a bit of email back-and-forth, as well as hallway discussions here in Geneva. It appears that there will not be an updated version of G.718 at this meeting. Further, the impact of the unfinished ITU work (floating point implementation) to the RTP payload spec seems minimal. As the next ITU-T SG16 meeting is many months away, I would now suggest that it's ok to move forward with the IETF's approval and publication process. Stephan On 5.7.2012 14:45 , "Stephan Wenger" wrote: >SG16 is meeting this week. Wait one more week, and you will know whether >the ITU spec advances now. >Stephan > > >On 5.7.2012 14:41 , "Glen Zorn" wrote: > >>On 05/07/2012 07:36 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport >>>Payloads Working Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : RTP Payload Format for G.718 Speech/Audio >>> Author(s) : Glen Zorn >>> Ye-Kui Wang >>> Ari Lakaniemi >>> Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-g718-02.txt >>> Pages : 27 >>> Date : 2012-05-07 >>> >>> This document specifies the Real-Time Transport Protocol (RTP) >>> payload format for the Embedded Variable Bit-Rate (EV-VBR) speech/ >>> audio codec, specified in ITU-T G.718. A media type registration >>>for >>> this RTP payload format is also included. >> >>This document has been on hold waiting input from ITU-T re: G.7018B for >>quite some time now. I suggest that we just take it to WGLC & publish >>w/o waiting any more. Opinions? >>_______________________________________________ >>payload mailing list >>payload@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >> > > >_______________________________________________ >payload mailing list >payload@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > From harald@alvestrand.no Wed May 9 00:10:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4B521F85B1 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 00:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.162, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7aWJtSv1n597 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 00:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99CD21F8596 for ; Wed, 9 May 2012 00:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808CD39E262; Wed, 9 May 2012 09:10:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z0KOuJGrzCBY; Wed, 9 May 2012 09:10:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.107] (unknown [188.113.88.47]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A09939E08B; Wed, 9 May 2012 09:10:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4FAA185B.8090607@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 09:10:19 +0200 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/3.1.20 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tharper@logitech.com References: <4F87D9B1.4000206@alvestrand.no> <4f8d1296.e950b40a.7abe.4224@mx.google.com> <4F8D1FF0.5050002@logitech.com> <4F969A29.3040908@logitech.com> <4f970f96.634cb40a.7e67.ffff8a0e@mx.google.com> <5B1A263B43E389479AB3DAC1EAF0C8F5024458@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <1335303658.1928.3.camel@TesterTop4> <5B1A263B43E389479AB3DAC1EAF0C8F5025DC5@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <4FA21442.8030002@logitech.com> In-Reply-To: <4FA21442.8030002@logitech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: payload@ietf.org Subject: Re: [payload] VP8 payload, decoder processing capabilities X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 07:10:29 -0000 On 05/03/2012 07:14 AM, tom harper wrote: > Has there been any follow up on this subject? I have seen a great > deal of tangential discussion on the rtcweb list, but I am wondering > if that discussion changes what is done here? > > It seemed like there was some consensus on this list about including > max-mbps, max-fs, and max-fr type equivalents. And possibly the > number of partitions used or equivalent? > > Regarding RFC 6236, it seems like so much of it is optional that it > could just cause more interoperability problems than it could solve- > but maybe I misinterpret the intent? The syntax itself seems > promising as an alternative- was any final decision made about whether > it would work in this particular case? The authors are working on an updated draft proposal. Real Soon Now! > > Thanks! > > Tom > > > > On 4/25/2012 9:26 AM, Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis wrote: >> Thanks Olivier. >> >> I was hoping to hear from someone at Google about this. >> >> BTW, there might be a misunderstanding here. What I have in mind is >> that a sender would offer a stream indicating how many coefficient >> partitions that stream uses, along with the frame size and rate (or >> whatever alternative such as pixel rate or macroblock rate the group >> decides on). A receiver would be able to decide based on this >> information whether or not it can decode the stream. The receiver >> might need at least a certain number of coefficient partitions to be >> able to decode a stream with a certain frame size& rate. >> >> Note 1: This does not apply to all receivers, but it might apply to >> some. >> >> Note 2: If the stream has more coefficient partitions than the >> receiver needs, that's not a problem, but if it has too few, that >> could potentially be a problem. >> >> In this scenario it doesn't matter whether the receiver's capability >> are static or dynamic; all that matters is that the receiver knows >> what its capabilities are at the time it decides whether or not it >> can decode the stream. >> >> If the concern is that the receiver's capability might be reduced >> after it starts to decode the stream, that opens a bigger issue that >> I was not trying to address. However, I don't think that concern >> applies to the specific question of how many coefficient partitions >> the stream has. If the receiver either requires a certain number of >> coefficient partitions initially, or anticipates that due to dynamic >> behavior it might require them in the future, it can use that >> information to decide whether or not to accept the stream. On the >> other hand, if the receiver might in the future require a smaller >> frame size& rate stream after the stream has started, that's another >> matter altogether. >> >> --Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis >> Broadcom >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: payload-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Olivier Crête >> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:41 PM >> To: payload@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [payload] VP8 payload, decoder processing capabilities >> >> On Tue, 2012-04-24 at 21:31 +0000, Sandy (Alexander) MacInnis wrote: >>> I have another question about this. >>> >>> Background: >>> In the VP8 bitstream spec, and in the payload draft, the use of >>> multiple coefficient partitions is optional and not required. >>> >>> A VP8 decoder might use multi-threaded processing, such that it can >>> achieve significantly greater throughput by decoding multiple >>> coefficient partitions in parallel. Such a decoder might rely on the >>> presence of a certain number of coefficient partitions in order to >>> achieve a certain level of throughput. >>> >>> For example, some receiver might comprise a multi-threaded decoder >>> that can decode 1920x1080p60 if the stream has at least four >>> coefficient partitions, but if the stream has only one coefficient >>> partition it might be limited to a significantly smaller product of >>> frame size and frame rate. >>> >>> Question: With the current draft, how does a multi-threaded decoder >>> know in advance how many coefficient partitions the stream uses, so >>> it can decide whether it can decode a stream of a given frame size >>> and frame rate? Or does this aspect not matter? >> I think the receiver should include all of that in its SDP, maybe >> something like: SamplesPerCoefficientPartition=X >> MaxParallelCoeffficientPartitions=Y >> >> That said, I'm concerned that all of this is a really static view of >> things, which is useful on a fixed device. But is completely pointless >> when writing software that runs on a general purpose computer (such as a >> desktop or a smartphone), in which case we want something more dynamic. >> So maybe all of this discussion is mostly pointless and we should push >> for a more dynamic solution (maybe some kind of RTCP feedback?) >> > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Fri May 18 07:58:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF4F21F86A1 for ; Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jkk2nicTpyVX for ; Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com (mail-wi0-f178.google.com [209.85.212.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D8A21F869E for ; Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so216643wib.13 for ; Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language; bh=gySInKhoWCv7hZPAPu6Eyua8AglYoBRn3olpLfrQt3M=; b=PP069qoJQx1MLZR75oIzb2Fqjuu76ysRPh48XZtp7qlyGoXGHz467aaEb+IHW/UYqx yU8wH9+2TeOYkdyHqQj6iet2UxLzRcNk1QC9e7PUTTjwYeuTf53IHMpasNPJXm2IQADq vjwLQwU+P4hoe8YVToTruEGtsg8YerwyOvJ7AZHpMXuJjGS8c1HKwOXfvNGQzxCde4uV 27Pg3TqN49GR4Lw3pCfMK5DxelCHlXhK0u97SJPO83grxJx8Stah0l/+HhJaRwBjVHWD Sg9/hJ2VqSmG5JX5NmADh0sQq+V7nkMhAy2r0FuyPjphEWjgEs3EFhtOiJFjAFJPI8wS VKPQ== Received: by 10.180.87.35 with SMTP id u3mr2354249wiz.11.1337353089552; Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from windows8d787f9 (bzq-79-177-198-116.red.bezeqint.net. [79.177.198.116]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o9sm2352265wia.3.2012.05.18.07.58.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 18 May 2012 07:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: References: <20120425173200.1079.20033.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120425173200.1079.20033.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 17:55:37 +0300 Message-ID: <4fb6637f.2908b40a.7ba7.561f@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac0jCVh+LAd7DeaMRpuGCSHkJ/S96AR/KzNA Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [payload] IPR Disclosure: Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw-06 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 14:58:11 -0000 Hi, We intend to send this draft to publication and would like to know if people have any concerns about this draft with regards to the IPR statement Thanks Roni Even Payload co-chair > -----Original Message----- > From: payload-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of IETF Secretariat > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:32 PM > To: zfang@qualcomm.com > Cc: payload@ietf.org; ipr-announce@ietf.org > Subject: [payload] IPR Disclosure: Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson > (publ)'s Statement about IPR related to draft-ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw-06 > > > Dear Zheng Fang: > > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "RTP > payload format for Enhanced Variable Rate Narrowband-Wideband Codec > (EVRC-NW)" (draft- > ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2012-04- > 25 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property > Rights Disclosures" > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1766/). The title of the IPR > disclosure is "Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson (publ)'s Statement about > IPR related to draft- ietf-avt-rtp-evrc-nw-06.""); > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload From ron.even.tlv@gmail.com Sat May 26 02:55:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94DAF21F84A0 for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.433 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.433 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KK94GcRKZUgt for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9377F21F856F for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by werb13 with SMTP id b13so1289420wer.31 for ; Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=z+4n3y7JPaL6jIaGRO6k/izscBJAzzNeeKYgkM/HAQs=; b=0AkIWGtS7Fu8dy+aa3RtyfUuMI8YmNExL8nyh235efK4i4lGpRtQtTywRBmJf6TqT2 c3V+2zCPZnfmVmpaIjleKNgI20qWwk6asV8x5VNyGF97r98oOXAiDrEpovEg+6vf0E/W Zac0NlDTMSRhE++1oHujafLr+Q/uGyHEEtanN1f2EDMwqDacS+e8BoYkFw71g0Y/dRKX j6MTWZlElp6apCeZLRLU3EERT1vJFttbpt+kWpI07YE/qki/QUtLi4jHnbRPYPgnDwcf gUKmuedRCx4Hcqn/SDaM6cRYkhYdpeGaDPEeLcaTe0/t0h8ZtIdUUj2kwJbOwiIxy+hG EFJA== Received: by 10.216.202.14 with SMTP id c14mr1112649weo.63.1338026137768; Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from windows8d787f9 (bzq-79-177-198-116.red.bezeqint.net. [79.177.198.116]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q6sm3788680wiy.0.2012.05.26.02.55.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 26 May 2012 02:55:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Paul Libbrecht'" , References: <17F2F6DB-D3F0-4EA2-9234-F3EFF27E6F11@hoplahup.net> In-Reply-To: <17F2F6DB-D3F0-4EA2-9234-F3EFF27E6F11@hoplahup.net> Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 12:53:14 +0300 Message-ID: <4fc0a898.8653b40a.27a0.ffffa445@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac07GXqO8m2HLBa4TMCJ2PHU/1RwXQAC7JQA Content-Language: en-us Cc: 'IANA Media types' Subject: Re: [payload] [ietf-types] Video media-types insufficient? X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:55:39 -0000 Hi, I think this should be discussed in payload WG Roni Even > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-types-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-types-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Paul Libbrecht > Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:28 AM > To: IANA Media types > Subject: [ietf-types] Video media-types insufficient? > > > hello dear Media-types' expert, > > the other day, I played with the nifty new video element of HTML5 which > seems to be fairly well implemented. This element allows a list of > sources together with their media-type so that the browser can find the > "video format" that it can play. > This element is perfectly following the idea of a media-type's > characterization of an exploitable format. > > However, this characterization is insufficient: the same media-type for > videos can be encode data in multiple codecs and these are not encoded > in media-types: > > I met this while using the video/mp4 media-type and realized that our > default encoding, the mpeg4 codec, did not play in iPad. > So I used the same video element, with a src of media-type pointing to > an mp4 file that uses the h264 codec. This one plays on iPad. > > To me, this is a clear failure of the media-type video/mp4: it does not > express sufficiently the playability on a device. > > Is this something well known? > Are there maybe media-type parameters that could help? > Are newer video media-types better on this respect? > > thanks in advance > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > ietf-types mailing list > ietf-types@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-types From magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Sun May 27 23:43:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB19221F84FE for ; Sun, 27 May 2012 23:43:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.174 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.174 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xUHXTZ3F0Ciu for ; Sun, 27 May 2012 23:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw7.ericsson.se (mailgw7.ericsson.se [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8094E21F84FA for ; Sun, 27 May 2012 23:43:22 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-b7f606d0000002be-ec-4fc31e899962 Received: from esessmw0197.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw7.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 8E.8E.00702.98E13CF4; Mon, 28 May 2012 08:43:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0197.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.88) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.264.0; Mon, 28 May 2012 08:43:20 +0200 Message-ID: <4FC31E87.2020202@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 08:43:19 +0200 From: Magnus Westerlund User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roni Even References: <17F2F6DB-D3F0-4EA2-9234-F3EFF27E6F11@hoplahup.net> <4fc0a898.8653b40a.27a0.ffffa445@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <4fc0a898.8653b40a.27a0.ffffa445@mx.google.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvrW6n3GF/g55tQhbrrp1ismj6spzJ 4tLFs0wWf9uZHVg8ds66y+6xdN0OFo8eeY8lS34yBbBEcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGW0f3jPWDBV rOLgnq9sDYydQl2MnBwSAiYSLxesY4ewxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcIpRouNHKxNIQkhgOaPEt7UC IDavgLbEpH+bmEFsFgFViTdfWxhBbDYBC4mbPxrZQGxRgWCJF3uusELUC0qcnPmEBcQWEVCT eL32M1gNs0CdxNYPXWBzhAWcJdac2MEKsStfYv9siF5OARuJr3saoI6TlDj47xo7RK+exJSr EHuZBeQlmrfOZobo1ZZoaOpgncAoNAvJ6llIWmYhaVnAyLyKUTg3MTMnvdxcL7UoM7m4OD9P rzh1EyMwyA9u+W2wg3HTfbFDjNIcLErivHqq+/2FBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosPMTJxcEo1 MHZpi/z/KpO8a32QqOri5ydPFJe89eVXsAz8/l784a9ZrjkqK3VK7psbrTPiX3Zf9c/lp8cy ZDNZVq6c11q/1J83Mii9SOb9s523ZCPu75rP/P3eqj9KP97uLqtviuRwlFt8jJ1/e+Dag9vL VTV4pxZt0jgrwXzh0yShl2cs5dNSBP1kzxYqT1diKc5INNRiLipOBADlawpPQAIAAA== Cc: 'IANA Media types' , 'Paul Libbrecht' , "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] [ietf-types] Video media-types insufficient? X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 06:43:23 -0000 Hi, Roni, if I understand correctly this is about the ISO based mp4 file format and not the RTP payload format. Thus not really a question for the Payload WG. My question to Paul, does you and the browser use the codecs and profiles parameter that are defined for this type. Please see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6381.txt That is intended to more detailed express which profiles and codecs that are included in the media type. Cheers Magnus On 2012-05-26 11:53, Roni Even wrote: > Hi, > I think this should be discussed in payload WG > Roni Even > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ietf-types-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-types-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Paul Libbrecht >> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:28 AM >> To: IANA Media types >> Subject: [ietf-types] Video media-types insufficient? >> >> >> hello dear Media-types' expert, >> >> the other day, I played with the nifty new video element of HTML5 which >> seems to be fairly well implemented. This element allows a list of >> sources together with their media-type so that the browser can find the >> "video format" that it can play. >> This element is perfectly following the idea of a media-type's >> characterization of an exploitable format. >> >> However, this characterization is insufficient: the same media-type for >> videos can be encode data in multiple codecs and these are not encoded >> in media-types: >> >> I met this while using the video/mp4 media-type and realized that our >> default encoding, the mpeg4 codec, did not play in iPad. >> So I used the same video element, with a src of media-type pointing to >> an mp4 file that uses the h264 codec. This one plays on iPad. >> >> To me, this is a clear failure of the media-type video/mp4: it does not >> express sufficiently the playability on a device. >> >> Is this something well known? >> Are there maybe media-type parameters that could help? >> Are newer video media-types better on this respect? >> >> thanks in advance >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> ietf-types mailing list >> ietf-types@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-types > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > > -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------