From nobody Wed Aug 2 03:43:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED93131EAD; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:43:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tAV7NvX4KH_C; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.160.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FA9C131EAF; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 03:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk (bgb01xi1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk [10.161.14.15]) by mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id v72AhGob023212; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:43:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from BGB01XUD1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.9]) by BGB01XI1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:43:15 +0100 From: John Fletcher To: Thomas Edwards CC: "payload-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" , "acbegen@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [payload] Last Call: (RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data) to Proposed Standard Thread-Index: AQHS9FTKepbnmWtL6ki9kLCc8NwsNKJxDGYE Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 10:43:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149912480123.16079.7688117540328146344.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149912480123.16079.7688117540328146344.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.19.161.212] x-exclaimer-md-config: c91d45b2-6e10-4209-9543-d9970fac71b7 x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4255-8.100.1062-23232.006 x-tm-as-result: No--21.539900-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] Last Call: (RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:43:23 -0000 The terms "HANC" and "VANC" are used without any definition. Can I suggest= that a definition is added by means of a reference to SMPTE RP 291-2?=0A= =0A= Regards,=0A= John=0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: payload [payload-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of The IESG [iesg-secret= ary@ietf.org]=0A= Sent: 04 July 2017 00:33=0A= To: IETF-Announce=0A= Cc: payload-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org; pay= load@ietf.org; acbegen@gmail.com=0A= Subject: [payload] Last Call: (RT= P Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data) to Proposed Standard=0A= =0A= The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG= =0A= (payload) to consider the following document: - 'RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 2= 91=0A= Ancillary Data'=0A= as Proposed Standard=0A= =0A= This is a repeated IETF Last Call due to material changes since the origina= l=0A= last call of version 6.=0A= =0A= The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final= =0A= comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the=0A= ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-07-25. Exceptionally, comments may be= =0A= sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning = of=0A= the Subject line to allow automated sorting.=0A= =0A= Abstract=0A= =0A= =0A= This memo describes a real-time transport protocol (RTP) payload=0A= format for the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers=0A= (SMPTE) Ancillary data, as defined by SMPTE ST 291-1. SMPTE=0A= Ancillary data is generally used along with professional video=0A= formats to carry a range of ancillary data types, including time=0A= code, Closed Captioning, and the Active Format Description (AFD).=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= The file can be obtained via=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/=0A= =0A= IESG discussion can be tracked via=0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ballot/= =0A= =0A= =0A= No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= payload mailing list=0A= payload@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload=0A= From nobody Wed Aug 2 04:05:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6F8131FF2; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aj1Jo1qGckre; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 027D1131FEF; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id m88so18901418iod.2; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 04:05:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eoKh5sr3npwZI8GgO+3hd0OLqBE+qXxZYGD2j4jv5e4=; b=Q7zt5awitoFD7hVshkyJwRuVIQ9FqOw6Q/qiXuqnwDMa/gr+C8TpIJIoUIeiosXEvY remJCNMxu2f23N7J8ewcUsZaa7TefzDMREo6sSihXyzhUJOZfVhESj39d0GowYYx1435 JJa8XhCet5AE98dT6gem6u8Ut0jyEulja63dSY8AJ54f7NygU827gDOktSc284J+nxcd zgw4NHJBW0wkjr9BbFS/UB3nAjkc8GtTrTnq/fy0KXzMwrW5HzJaFO3R7e5jDescmYyH /2HuwjZ/0+C+mEOFvdjUs9yDbxAXvNNajXT3i/4Wax9HVdHESx+JmjAWsfcfqbcn2gJD SSCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eoKh5sr3npwZI8GgO+3hd0OLqBE+qXxZYGD2j4jv5e4=; b=hXE/x6t0hK8k+hBz0svKS7uZlum3DrKquK77jpwiEii6oYjSnFR/SUZeUFw+8zO9S2 q039e2dyzVxpLRZisgi6oAKgtQKy80/N2o2u/1lj5TlcKiGIEGQEKJ84yzNONMdaSSgc YOl037YAiTkEvGbRSHhEiTudoZhIfwYFxWV4NFtL4Y426n35PYqxlbvi9Gp5E28l4O7U 2WI6H4AV6Z/36wchkJnO4jNldu+0vPEp47uIRq0qfvgkrRrcIz2O78N81BBJ5cb+qEFz dGdQnsLAVPTfYL0sLs9mUENC5uoX+3Rfw1C0HeEToaGjF/Yg5xHc88TFrkAo/ROzKmYu YUcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113hZbYJuWLFrTAsk8xM70Du088yrW0/bl+AQ5SZAZErzH1WahyK CkKmDo8xgUynhSKP+eOLyaK9Zk0hpQ== X-Received: by 10.107.35.140 with SMTP id j134mr25858411ioj.94.1501671911389; Wed, 02 Aug 2017 04:05:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.85.194 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 04:05:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149912480123.16079.7688117540328146344.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Ali C. Begen" Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:05:10 +0300 Message-ID: To: John Fletcher Cc: Thomas Edwards , "payload-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] Last Call: (RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 11:05:13 -0000 We will have to do this during the RFC editor phase as the draft is now with IESG so we cannot update the draft. Thanks. -acbegen On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 1:43 PM, John Fletcher wrote: > The terms "HANC" and "VANC" are used without any definition. Can I suggest that a definition is added by means of a reference to SMPTE RP 291-2? > > Regards, > John > ________________________________________ > From: payload [payload-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of The IESG [iesg-secretary@ietf.org] > Sent: 04 July 2017 00:33 > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: payload-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; acbegen@gmail.com > Subject: [payload] Last Call: (RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data) to Proposed Standard > > The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG > (payload) to consider the following document: - 'RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 > Ancillary Data' > as Proposed Standard > > This is a repeated IETF Last Call due to material changes since the original > last call of version 6. > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final > comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-07-25. Exceptionally, comments may be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of > the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > This memo describes a real-time transport protocol (RTP) payload > format for the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers > (SMPTE) Ancillary data, as defined by SMPTE ST 291-1. SMPTE > Ancillary data is generally used along with professional video > formats to carry a range of ancillary data types, including time > code, Closed Captioning, and the Active Format Description (AFD). > > > > > The file can be obtained via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ballot/ > > > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload From nobody Tue Aug 8 06:34:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E771321E7; Tue, 8 Aug 2017 06:34:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org, payload-chairs@ietf.org, acbegen@gmail.com, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150219927387.12412.13816543900315456551.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 06:34:33 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 13:34:34 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd like to begin by noting that I know basically nothing about SMPTE or ST 291 or Ancillary Data. I opened the document thinking that this was going to be either impenetrable, a huge waste of my time, or both... I was very pleasantly surprised by how clear, accessible and interesting the document is -- it clearly describes the use case / problem, provides just enough background to make understanding the discussion (relatively) easy, and documents the solution / protocol in a clear and concise manner. I'm not really qualified to evaluate if this is the best way to implement / if it has hidden landmines (see first sentence!), but I'd like to thank the author and WG for producing a document which was a pleasure to read. I'd also like to draw your attention to Nevil's OpsDir review, which contains some good questions, and some nits: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-06-opsdir-lc-brownlee-2016-11-03/ From nobody Thu Aug 10 05:49:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F64D1326BD; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:49:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150236939623.11859.10012455480897471932@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:49:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:49:56 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload Format for VC-2 HQ Profile Video Author : James P. Weaver Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2017-08-10 Abstract: This memo describes an RTP Payload format for the High Quality (HQ) profile of SMPTE Standard ST 2042-1 known as VC-2. This document describes the transport of HQ Profile VC-2 in RTP packets and has applications for low-complexity, high-bandwidth streaming of both lossless and lossy compressed video. The HQ profile of VC-2 is intended for low latency video compression (with latency potentially on the order of lines of video) at high data rates (with compression ratios on the order of 2:1 or 4:1). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Aug 10 05:50:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2318E1326B3 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:50:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-1xzTbFjNcJ for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.160.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F06621326B8 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1001.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.184.50.51]) by mailout0.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id v7ACoR2O004801 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:50:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from BGB01XUD1007.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.5]) by BGB01XI1001.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.184.50.51]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:50:26 +0100 From: James Barrett To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHTEdctgFJ6LY+eo0acTGe7jmGluw== Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:50:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150236939645.11859.1501659370577717168.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.10.48.249] x-exclaimer-md-config: 1cd3ac1c-62e5-43f2-8404-6b688271c769 x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4255-8.100.1062-23248.006 x-tm-as-result: No--15.665000-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CB7046DB883B400F867A752A65F44F89bbccouk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-03.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:50:49 -0000 --_000_CB7046DB883B400F867A752A65F44F89bbccouk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQotLQ0KSmFtZXMgUC4gV2VhdmVyIChuw6kgQmFycmV0dCkNClJlc2VhcmNoIEVuZ2luZWVyDQpC QkMgUiZEIE5vcnRoIExhYiwNCkZsb29yIDUgRG9jayBIb3VzZSwgTWVkaWFDaXR5LA0KTTUwIDJM 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FyEm5K9iK4H6 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk (mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.161.180]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCEAC12708C for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk (bgb01xi1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk [10.161.14.15]) by mailout1.telhc.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id v7ACwWOb019797; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:58:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from BGB01XUD1007.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.5]) by BGB01XI1011.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.161.14.15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 13:58:32 +0100 From: James Barrett To: "Ali C. Begen" CC: John Fletcher , "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] WGLC for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-01 Thread-Index: AQHSjiCWNi5A3ypT9ESfL4aDRiHLZKG1da2AgAFRdgCAAQ69AICirQAAgAAEE4CAI/zEgA== Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:58:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.10.48.249] x-exclaimer-md-config: c91d45b2-6e10-4209-9543-d9970fac71b7 x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.4255-8.100.1062-23248.006 x-tm-as-result: No--15.374800-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D81CC1FE3FA54FE38B7BFBB8CDA11D8Dbbccouk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] WGLC for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-vc2hq-01 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:58:36 -0000 --_000_D81CC1FE3FA54FE38B7BFBB8CDA11D8Dbbccouk_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sun, 13 Aug 2017 03:44:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org, payload-chairs@ietf.org, acbegen@gmail.com, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150262106405.26459.9850568812662383617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 03:44:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 10:44:24 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is generally a well written document. As the media type registration template in Section 3.1 is supposed to be self contained (it will be posted to IANA website as a web page), it should define (or point to) ABNF for different parameters and specify that some parameters (e.g. DID_SDID) can be repeated multiple times. I can find this information in Section 4, so please add references to section 4 in the template. From nobody Tue Aug 15 01:58:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735AE13261D; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 01:58:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org, payload-chairs@ietf.org, acbegen@gmail.com, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150278752346.21126.1870194955747059354.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 01:58:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 08:58:43 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- One comment at the end of section 2: "One millisecond is a reasonable upper bound for the amount of time between when an ANC data packet becomes available to a sender and the emission of an RTP payload containing that ANC data packet." While it makes sense to send out the packet as soon as possible, I'm not sure what this sentence gives you. I don't think you can guanrantee 1ms as there might be additional delays on the NIC and as such I don't think there are any actions that could follow based on this value. To avoid that anybody is taking this as a hard requirement, I would maybe rather just remove this note. From nobody Tue Aug 15 09:55:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B645E126DD9; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 09:55:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Spencer Dawkins To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org, payload-chairs@ietf.org, acbegen@gmail.com, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150281611174.20971.16853094230882242080.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 09:55:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 16:55:12 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I wasn’t sure whether this text was giving three examples of SDIs, or two. Am I the only one who’s confused? ANC is generally associated with the carriage of metadata within the bit stream of a Serial Digital Interface (SDI) such as SMPTE ST 259 [ST259], the standard definition (SD) Serial Digital Interface (with ANC data inserted as per SMPTE ST 125 [ST125]), or SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292], the 1.5 Gb/s Serial Digital Interface for high definition (HD) television applications. Perhaps using the descriptions first in each case, and ending with the name and reference in parentheses, would be clearer? From nobody Tue Aug 15 19:24:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B809132455; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:24:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Adam Roach To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary@ietf.org, payload-chairs@ietf.org, acbegen@gmail.com, payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150285025423.12514.106587665039751833.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 19:24:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 02:24:14 -0000 Adam Roach has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-10: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The grouping semantics here are problematic. Section 4.1 talks about LS to associate ANC streams with other streams. LS is strictly a synchronization construct, not used to otherwise state relationships between streams. More importantly, there's nothing that prevents it being used to synchronize an arbitrary number of video streams with each other. The problem that arises is best illustrated by this example, where I'm going to transmit two video streams, each with their own ANC data, but need them to be synchronized (e.g., perhaps I'm going to have two border-less screens physically right next to each other for a double-wide image, and synchronization is important to avoid tearing): v=0 o=Al 123456 11 IN IP4 host.example.com s=Professional Networked Media Test i=A test of synchronized video and ANC data t=0 0 a=group:LS V1 V2 M1 M2 m=video 50000 RTP/AVP 96 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.1/255 a=rtpmap:96 raw/90000 a=fmtp:96 sampling=YCbCr-4:2:2; width=1280; height=720; depth=10 a=mid:V1 m=video 50002 RTP/AVP 96 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.1/255 a=rtpmap:96 raw/90000 a=fmtp:96 sampling=YCbCr-4:2:2; width=1280; height=720; depth=10 a=mid:V2 m=video 50010 RTP/AVP 97 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.2/255 a=rtpmap:97 smpte291/90000 a=fmtp:97 DID_SDID={0x61,0x02};DID_SDID={0x41,0x05} a=mid:M1 m=video 50012 RTP/AVP 97 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.2/255 a=rtpmap:97 smpte291/90000 a=fmtp:97 DID_SDID={0x61,0x02};DID_SDID={0x41,0x05} a=mid:M2 If the recipient of these mutually synchronized streams needs to reintegrate the ANC data into the video for offloading to an HDMI connection, how does it know which ANC stream to insert into which video stream? There needs to be some additional association mechanism here. You can either add an attribute to the smpte291 media sections that clearly indicates which video stream they correspond to, or you can include the smpte291 packets in the same stream as the corresponding video, like so: v=0 o=Al 123456 11 IN IP4 host.example.com s=Professional Networked Media Test i=A test of synchronized video and ANC data t=0 0 m=video 50000 RTP/AVP 96 97 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.1/255 a=rtpmap:96 raw/90000 a=rtpmap:97 smpte291/90000 a=fmtp:96 sampling=YCbCr-4:2:2; width=1280; height=720; depth=10 a=fmtp:97 DID_SDID={0x61,0x02};DID_SDID={0x41,0x05} m=video 50002 RTP/AVP 96 97 c=IN IP4 233.252.0.1/255 a=rtpmap:96 raw/90000 a=rtpmap:97 smpte291/90000 a=fmtp:96 sampling=YCbCr-4:2:2; width=1280; height=720; depth=10 a=fmtp:97 DID_SDID={0x61,0x02};DID_SDID={0x41,0x05} (See RFC4733 for an example of a payload that performs stream association in this fashion) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It is common in examples of RTP payloads (such as Figure 1) to include values for those fields whose values are illustrative of the format itself. The "V=2" in Figure 1 is an example of this. I would suggest that the example would be slightly improved by including a similar notation for (e.g.) "Length = 32", "ANC_Count = 2", and the two Data_Count fields. Section 2.1 defines "b01" as "invalid" for the F field. It does not, however, prescribe what recipients of such a value should do; reasonable options would include (a) treat it as 0b00; (b) ignore the ANC but process any others that might be present; or (c) ignore the entire packet. I'll note that (b) allows you to come back and add semantics for "0b01" at a later date, if you find a reason to do so. In any case, to minimize variations among recipients, I would suggest defining concrete behavior here. [Warning: I'm not terribly familiar with SMPTE video formats, and with the UHD-and-higher specs in particular, so it may be that the following comment can be answered with "that can never happen no matter how high-res streams get in the future."] As far as I know, SMPTE defines 4k as having 4 streams (each efectively a normal 1080 stream), 8k as having 16, and the future-looking 16k (presumably) having 64. Given that the Horizontal_Offset can communicate widths only up to 4093 samples (well within striking distance of the 2640 samples used by a single stream), and that the StreamNum field can communicate at most 128 streams, it seems that any sizes larger than 16k run the risk of exceeding the ability for these fields to place ancillary data packets at the correct horizontal position. I would recommend defining another reserved value for Horizontal_Offset (0xFFD), that can be used to mean "longer field follows" in a future specification; and a reserved value (0x7F) for StreamNum for the same purpose. Line_Number, with a maximum value of 2045, is similarly within striking distance of the 1125 lines used by a single stream, and would likely need the same accommodations. It is implied, but not stated, that implementations should use different sessions (or at least different media sections) to convey smpte291 payloads than the video streams they correspond to. If this is the intention, please include a normative statement to that effect. If it is okay to include both payload types in the same media section, please add a statement explicitly saying so, and indicate that this can be used as an alternative to using LS groups. Section 5.1 indicates that the answerer can respond with "all or a subset" of the DID_SDID parameters, or that it "MAY reject the offer." Of course, an answerer is always able to reject an offer, but this text seems to imply that it might do so if it doesn't want to receive any of the DID_SDID parameters indicated in the offer. That seems like massive overkill. Since the model here appears to be using multiple sessions (or, at least, separate media sections) to convey smpte291 data, I would offer that this should instead say something like "MAY set the corresponding port number to 0 to decline the smpte291 stream". (If you opt to allow the smpte291 payloads to be in the same media section as their corresponding video streams, this would instead involve removing the corresponding PT). Nit: The final line in the final example of section 4 is too long. Consider outdenting by two characters.