From stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com Thu Dec 1 07:19:57 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AED311E820C for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:19:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id itaSdX1fjHsD for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (mailgw9.se.ericsson.net [193.180.251.57]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C12E11E81FF for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 07:19:56 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb39-b7b3eae00000252a-6e-4ed79b19adb3 Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D3.A1.09514.91B97DE4; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:19:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from [150.132.142.230] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.137.0; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:19:53 +0100 Message-ID: <4ED79B18.6060904@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:19:52 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_H=E5kansson_LK?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111110 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:19:57 -0000 Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with sharing" () we had a student experimenting a bit. Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a PeerConnection. The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected as a video source. Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to getUserMedia? (there is some more info about what the student did at ) Stefan From henry.sinnreich@gmail.com Thu Dec 1 11:18:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A90A21F84C1 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:18:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3MhbjNGT1hl5 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC5821F84BB for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by ywm13 with SMTP id 13so2622280ywm.31 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:18:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic :thread-index:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GrESW7QFXUTcg31UrRfVfqYTumQiVm1QrHLT66HuGS0=; b=QvK+ZIr/jbEFw58gP/qRny8Z7sXcZYWfBpBhOwLc6Tqp9/6biOQ1DZnXhQ/4P4If4z GidJEScVj3GBqWXmFRVcUCoLKFsokTws5dZ1AQ3n3lUl+nnoFESwICtpruz+wxm7HY8N Yvau7WFQxz5bci5ib985cvF3M0gcSp330L+g4= Received: by 10.236.161.197 with SMTP id w45mr1420571yhk.96.1322767115471; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.15.2] (cpe-76-184-230-185.tx.res.rr.com. [76.184.230.185]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u47sm11141747yhl.0.2011.12.01.11.18.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:18:31 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.30.0.110427 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 13:18:26 -0600 From: Henry Sinnreich To: Stefan =?ISO-8859-1?B?SOVrYW5zc29u?= LK , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Screen sharing Thread-Index: AcywXf/73UuSAuZXzkWmDmuA4M4YUQ== In-Reply-To: <4ED79B18.6060904@ericsson.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:18:43 -0000 Hi Stefan, Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet slides. Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. Thanks, Henry On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=E5kansson LK" wrote: > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with > sharing"=20 > ( /?include_text=3D1>) > we had a student experimenting a bit. >=20 > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a > PeerConnection. >=20 > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected as > a video source. >=20 > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to > getUserMedia? >=20 > (there is some more info about what the student did at > ) >=20 > Stefan > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From juberti@google.com Thu Dec 1 11:47:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58C3A11E815D for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:47:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j2EuOh6KZ92S for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7692D21F9188 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaek3 with SMTP id k3so457832iae.31 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:47:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; bh=e3mCDItnox6puo7HJVsxCBZ9CsZfAyCl+kYqNPFUxog=; b=rQJtdnrUHaGfSmyV57GGhhXObsh3SkauKsM0rsLkfuijarAt8D6C0y1cdPllBlwbXx Tnwg9ngBhcVsVZ6KVOEQ== Received: by 10.42.72.135 with SMTP id o7mr10477222icj.45.1322768868976; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.72.135 with SMTP id o7mr10477090icj.45.1322768867267; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:47:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.194.134 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:47:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4ED79B18.6060904@ericsson.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 14:47:26 -0500 Message-ID: To: Henry Sinnreich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e87d07414f804b30d20d3 X-System-Of-Record: true Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:47:50 -0000 --90e6ba6e87d07414f804b30d20d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It works pretty well for us in Hangouts, and we'd like to continue to support this functionality in WebRTC, so I think this area is definitely something this group should explore. getUserMedia("screen") seems like a good API to start with; it already needs to pop up a chooser dialog, and it has a mechanism to handling success or failure. As the demo indicates, there are many types of "screens" that the user could be prompted to share: - The entire desktop - Individual windows on the desktop - Windows owned by the browser - Specific tabs within the browser - A user-selectable onscreen region The exact details can be browser-specific, but we'll need to give some guidance here so that applications can have a consistent experience across browsers. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet > slides. > Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. > > Thanks, Henry > > > On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=C3=A5kansson LK" < > stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with > > sharing" > > (< > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requireme= nts > > /?include_text=3D1>) > > we had a student experimenting a bit. > > > > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a > > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a > > PeerConnection. > > > > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected as > > a video source. > > > > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And > > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to > > getUserMedia? > > > > (there is some more info about what the student did at > > ) > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > --90e6ba6e87d07414f804b30d20d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It works pretty well for us in Hangouts, and we'd like to continue to s= upport this functionality in WebRTC, so I think this area is definitely som= ething this group should explore.

getUserMedia("scr= een") seems like a good API to start with; it already needs to pop up = a chooser dialog, and it has a mechanism to handling success or failure.=C2= =A0

As the demo indicates, there are many types of "sc= reens" that the user could be prompted to share:
- The entir= e desktop
- Individual windows on the desktop
- Windows= owned by the browser
- Specific tabs within the browser
- A user-selectable onscr= een region

The exact details can be browser-specif= ic, but we'll need to give some guidance here so that applications can = have a consistent experience across browsers.

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Henry Sinnre= ich <henr= y.sinnreich@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stefan,

Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet slides.
Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO.
Thanks, Henry


On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=C3=A5kansson LK" <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com&= gt;
wrote:

> Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service wit= h
> sharing"
> (<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements
> /?include_text=3D1>)
> we had a student experimenting a bit.
>
> Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a=
> camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a<= br> > PeerConnection.
>
> The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected a= s
> a video source.
>
> Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And
> perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argume= nt to
> getUserMedia?
>
> (there is some more info about what the student did at
> <https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-community= /blog/screen-sharing>)
>
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--90e6ba6e87d07414f804b30d20d3-- From randell-ietf@jesup.org Thu Dec 1 11:57:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869291F0C50 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:57:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.650, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6W6Vg7+aBeXe for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:57:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from r2-chicago.webserversystems.com (r2-chicago.webserversystems.com [173.236.101.58]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED18711E8173 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool-173-49-135-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([173.49.135.74] helo=[192.168.1.12]) by r2-chicago.webserversystems.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RWCkw-0001RJ-80 for rtcweb@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 13:57:18 -0600 Message-ID: <4ED7DBC5.6060705@jesup.org> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:55:49 -0500 From: Randell Jesup User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - r2-chicago.webserversystems.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jesup.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:57:19 -0000 On 12/1/2011 2:18 PM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet > slides. > Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. It can suck, for sure, depending on resolution. If you change the encoding characteristics to be appropriate for a screen, it can be much better. We used to deliver Internet-over-Cable-Settops (at WorldGate), using MPEG-2 p-frames and Xvfb with damage regions. The trick it to not run steady video-like frame rates in CBR or near-CBR, but to instead adapt the codec to the source material - run highly variable framerates in partial VBR, and allow some initial fuzziness on a large changes to sharpen in subsequent frames (and maybe delay the first frame of a large change and use more bits for it), then stop updates if the source is static. Also you'd probably want to use a heuristic or other mechanism to detect sharing a window with video or animation in it and shift encoding modes to a video-centric mode. And obviously use as large a resolution as is useful at the other end, if the bandwidth supports it. And never, ever send an iframe unless needed. :-) (Note: I wasn't the video expert on this; I handled the browser side.) -- Randell Jesup randell-ietf@jesup.org From arosenberg@logitech.com Thu Dec 1 15:05:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A0C311E8150 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:05:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0BUEsDYpNfqT for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from na3sys009aog118.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog118.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.244]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0C911E80A2 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:05:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob118.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTtgIMye6EEPxZGgBLUh6hvdGiPD5+kzg@postini.com; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:05:36 PST Received: by vcbfy13 with SMTP id fy13so2160944vcb.31 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.247.208 with SMTP id md16mr1567758vcb.43.1322780723332; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:05:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.167.39 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:05:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4ED79B18.6060904@ericsson.com> From: Aron Rosenberg Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 15:05:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54fb61c2147d604b30fe353 Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 23:05:38 -0000 --bcaec54fb61c2147d604b30fe353 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to tweak the codec encoding parameters and FPS a bit, but you get great quality even on text. Aron Rosenberg LifeSize, a division of Logitech On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet > slides. > Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. > > Thanks, Henry > > > On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=E5kansson LK" < > stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with > > sharing" > > (< > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requireme= nts > > /?include_text=3D1>) > > we had a student experimenting a bit. > > > > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a > > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a > > PeerConnection. > > > > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected as > > a video source. > > > > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And > > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to > > getUserMedia? > > > > (there is some more info about what the student did at > > ) > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > --bcaec54fb61c2147d604b30fe353 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to tweak the = codec encoding=A0parameters=A0and FPS a bit, but you get great quality even= on text.

Aron Rosenberg
Lif= eSize, a division of Logitech



On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry S= innreich <henry.sinnreich@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Stefan,

Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet slides.
Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO.
Thanks, Henry


On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=E5kansson LK" <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>=
wrote:

> Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service wit= h
> sharing"
> (<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements
> /?include_text=3D1>)
> we had a student experimenting a bit.
>
> Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a=
> camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a<= br> > PeerConnection.
>
> The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected a= s
> a video source.
>
> Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And
> perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argume= nt to
> getUserMedia?
>
> (there is some more info about what the student did at
> <https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-community= /blog/screen-sharing>)
>
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--bcaec54fb61c2147d604b30fe353-- From henry.sinnreich@gmail.com Thu Dec 1 16:31:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DAC1F0C6D for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:31:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.053 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.053 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2US+dUWTo19 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C5A1F0C3B for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by ggnp4 with SMTP id p4so2895818ggn.31 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:31:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=user-agent:date:subject:from:to:message-id:thread-topic :thread-index:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=tdsLTzQl1YL6KLLrFAYaHZ5d3N0fybzWMwFA1pBlc2w=; b=uY2c6izOc+vHQU49cbD9Unyk+1ORVvoRa9QgfEYbOT7zerdzeFS0N7k41KaNIBXpbS GcxruvYKe0SfAXAlfQ4R4/1DLsQZkCc3ZokLFGfX68Qxd6dOPHN8W6jKqCefuE8gpPQ6 JMZlpLPSgiHwcg7i5zc2j0nYA8987ulxbUq1U= Received: by 10.236.157.1 with SMTP id n1mr15332224yhk.64.1322785898224; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.15.2] (cpe-76-184-230-185.tx.res.rr.com. [76.184.230.185]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f14sm19862905ani.8.2011.12.01.16.31.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:31:36 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.30.0.110427 Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:31:34 -0600 From: Henry Sinnreich To: Aron Rosenberg , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , Randell Jesup , Justin Uberti Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Screen sharing Thread-Index: Acywib6AsZdA6AbgVkeZyFaqklgtPA== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3405609096_928161" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:31:39 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3405609096_928161 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document under discussion? If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the codec tweaking enabled via the API? Thanks, Henry On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" wrote: > Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to tweak th= e > codec encoding=A0parameters=A0and FPS a bit, but you get great quality even o= n > text. >=20 > Aron Rosenberg > LifeSize, a division of Logitech >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich > wrote: >> Hi Stefan, >>=20 >> Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bulle= t >> slides. >> Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. >>=20 >> Thanks, Henry >>=20 >>=20 >> On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=E5kansson LK" >> wrote: >>=20 >>> > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with >>> > sharing" >>> >=20 >>>=20 (>> ts >>> > /?include_text=3D1>) >>> > we had a student experimenting a bit. >>> > >>> > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as = a >>> > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a >>> > PeerConnection. >>> > >>> > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected = as >>> > a video source. >>> > >>> > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And >>> > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to >>> > getUserMedia? >>> > >>> > (there is some more info about what the student did at >>> > ) >>> > >>> > Stefan >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > rtcweb mailing list >>> > rtcweb@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb --B_3405609096_928161 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document under = discussion?

If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the codec= tweaking enabled via the API?

Thanks, Henry


On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" <arosenberg@logitech.com> wrote:

<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'>Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for= us. You have to tweak the codec encoding=A0parameters=A0and FPS a bit, but you = get great quality even on text.

Aron Rosenberg
LifeSize, a division of Logitech



On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich <henry.sinnreich@gmail.com> wrote:
<= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'>Hi Stefan,

Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet slides.
Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO.
Thanks, Henry


On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan Håkansson LK" <stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service wit= h
> sharing"
> (<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-= cases-and-requirements
> /?include_text=3D1>)
> we had a student experimenting a bit.
>
> Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a=
> camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a<= BR> > PeerConnection.
>
> The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected a= s
> a video source.
>
> Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And
> perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argume= nt to
> getUserMedia?
>
> (there is some more info about what the student did at
> <https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-community/blog/screen-shar= ing>)
>
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
=

__________________________= _____________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
--B_3405609096_928161-- From juberti@google.com Thu Dec 1 16:58:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120A021F9872 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:58:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oYvrbOW9Z-Vg for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2077E21F9871 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaek3 with SMTP id k3so843342iae.31 for ; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; bh=Ehy1eSnO/MiZkTuIiOb1WmvhiDTbP5mKeNrY2K06PHc=; b=nmGg3ats328kENC1lyiVALcDAByJoJ/DKhhnz/vfyySzsBgSHUEx6oT6kkqrKLXS1l hz2DnmUbOKsFSX2HOOzQ== Received: by 10.42.72.135 with SMTP id o7mr11666934icj.45.1322787489500; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.72.135 with SMTP id o7mr11666915icj.45.1322787489301; Thu, 01 Dec 2011 16:58:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.194.134 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 16:57:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Justin Uberti Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 19:57:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Henry Sinnreich Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e87d069c43604b3117681 X-System-Of-Record: true Cc: Randell Jesup , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:58:11 -0000 --90e6ba6e87d069c43604b3117681 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document > under discussion? > In the implementations we have been referring to, yes. > > If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the > codec tweaking enabled via the API? > It's automatically enabled when attaching a source of type "screen" to a PeerConnection. > > Thanks, Henry > > > > On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" wrote: > > Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to tweak th= e > codec encoding parameters and FPS a bit, but you get great quality even o= n > text. > > Aron Rosenberg > LifeSize, a division of Logitech > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich < > henry.sinnreich@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > > Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet > slides. > Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO. > > Thanks, Henry > > > On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=C3=A5kansson LK" < > stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com> > wrote: > > > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with > > sharing" > > (< > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requireme= nts > > /?include_text=3D1>) > > we had a student experimenting a bit. > > > > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a > > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a > > PeerConnection. > > > > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected as > > a video source. > > > > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And > > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to > > getUserMedia? > > > > (there is some more info about what the student did at > > ) > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > --90e6ba6e87d069c43604b3117681 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Henry Si= nnreich <= henry.sinnreich@gmail.com> wrote:
Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document u= nder discussion?

In= the implementations we have been referring to, yes.

If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the codec= tweaking enabled via the API?
It's automatically enabled when attaching a source of type = "screen" to a PeerConnection.=C2=A0

Thanks, Henry



On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" <arosenberg@logitech.com> wrote:=

Screen s= haring works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to tweak the codec en= coding=C2=A0parameters=C2=A0and FPS a bit, but you get great quality even o= n text.

Aron Rosenberg
LifeSize, a division of Logitech



On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich <henry.sinnreich@gmail.com> = wrote:
Hi Stefan,

Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even plain bullet slides.
Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other league IMO.
Thanks, Henry


On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=C3=A5kansson LK" <stefan.lk.hakansson= @ericsson.com>
wrote:

> Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service wit= h
> sharing"
> (<http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements
> /?include_text=3D1>)
> we had a student experimenting a bit.
>
> Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source (just as a=
> camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream over a<= br> > PeerConnection.
>
> The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be selected a= s
> a video source.
>
> Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And
> perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argume= nt to
> getUserMedia?
>
> (there is some more info about what the student did at
> <https://labs.ericsson.com/developer-commun= ity/blog/screen-sharing>)
>
> Stefan
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--90e6ba6e87d069c43604b3117681-- From bernard_aboba@hotmail.com Thu Dec 1 17:02:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A9B21F9872 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:02:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iHd5+l0OvXcz for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from snt0-omc3-s7.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc3-s7.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E99321F9871 for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:02:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from SNT0-EAS409 ([65.55.90.137]) by snt0-omc3-s7.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 1 Dec 2011 17:02:14 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [65.34.177.21] X-Originating-Email: [bernard_aboba@hotmail.com] Message-ID: References: <4ED79B18.6060904@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-9DA53A6E-91A5-4427-8E01-7AA2D47E97A0" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 20:02:08 -0500 To: Aron Rosenberg MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2011 01:02:14.0328 (UTC) FILETIME=[076C3B80:01CCB08E] Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 01:02:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9DA53A6E-91A5-4427-8E01-7AA2D47E97A0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" VG8gYmUgY2xlYXIsIHdlJ3JlIHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQgSC4yNjQvU1ZDLCByaWdodD8gIA0KDQpP biBEZWMgMSwgMjAxMSwgYXQgMTg6MDUsICJBcm9uIFJvc2VuYmVyZyIgPGFyb3NlbmJlcmdAbG9n aXRlY2guY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPiBTY3JlZW4gc2hhcmluZyB3b3JrcyBncmVhdCBvdmVyIEgu MjY0IG9yIFZQOCBmb3IgdXMuIFlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIHR3ZWFrIHRoZSBjb2RlYyBlbmNvZGluZyBw YXJhbWV0ZXJzIGFuZCBGUFMgYSBiaXQsIGJ1dCB5b3UgZ2V0IGdyZWF0IHF1YWxpdHkgZXZlbiBv biB0ZXh0Lg0KPiANCj4gQXJvbiBSb3NlbmJlcmcNCj4gTGlmZVNpemUsIGEgZGl2aXNpb24gb2Yg TG9naXRlY2gNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gT24gVGh1LCBEZWMgMSwgMjAxMSBhdCAxMToxOCBBTSwg SGVucnkgU2lubnJlaWNoIDxoZW5yeS5zaW5ucmVpY2hAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGkg U3RlZmFuLA0KPiANCj4gVmlkZW8gc3Vja3MgZm9yIHNjcmVlbiBzaGFyaW5nLCBkaXNwbGF5aW5n IGRvY3VtZW50cyBvciBldmVuIHBsYWluIGJ1bGxldA0KPiBzbGlkZXMuDQo+IERpc3BsYXlpbmcg dGhlIHNjcmVlbiBhbmQgZG9jdW1lbnRzIGlzIGluIGEgY29tcGxldGVseSBvdGhlciBsZWFndWUg SU1PLg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzLCBIZW5yeQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIDEyLzEvMTEgOToxOSBBTSwg IlN0ZWZhbiBIw6VrYW5zc29uIExLIiA8c3RlZmFuLmxrLmhha2Fuc3NvbkBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+ DQo+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gPiBSZWxhdGVkIHRvIHVzZS1jYXNlIDQuMi43ICJTaW1wbGUgVmlk ZW8gQ29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlIHdpdGgNCj4gPiBzaGFyaW5nIg0KPiA+ICg8aHR0cDov L2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLXJ0Y3dlYi11c2UtY2FzZXMtYW5k LXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cw0KPiA+IC8/aW5jbHVkZV90ZXh0PTE+KQ0KPiA+IHdlIGhhZCBhIHN0dWRl bnQgZXhwZXJpbWVudGluZyBhIGJpdC4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IEVzc2VudGlhbGx5LCB0aGUgc2NyZWVu IHdhcyB0cmVhdGVkIGFzIGFub3RoZXIgdmlkZW8gc291cmNlIChqdXN0IGFzIGENCj4gPiBjYW1l cmEpLCBhbmQgd2FzIHRyYW5zbWl0dGVkIHRvIHRoZSBvdGhlciBlbmQgYXMgYSBNZWRpYVN0cmVh bSBvdmVyIGENCj4gPiBQZWVyQ29ubmVjdGlvbi4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IFRoZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlv biBvZiBnZXRVc2VyTWVkaWEgYWxsb3dlZCB0aGUgc2NyZWVuIHRvIGJlIHNlbGVjdGVkIGFzDQo+ ID4gYSB2aWRlbyBzb3VyY2UuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBQZXJoYXBzIHRoaXMgY291bGQgYmUgYSB3YXkg Zm9yd2FyZCBmb3IgbWVldGluZyB0aGlzIHVzZS1jYXNlPyBBbmQNCj4gPiBwZXJoYXBzICJzY3Jl ZW4iIHNob3VsZCBiZSBkZWZpbmVkIGFzIGEgdmFsaWQgb3B0aW9ucyBhcmd1bWVudCB0bw0KPiA+ IGdldFVzZXJNZWRpYT8NCj4gPg0KPiA+ICh0aGVyZSBpcyBzb21lIG1vcmUgaW5mbyBhYm91dCB3 aGF0IHRoZSBzdHVkZW50IGRpZCBhdA0KPiA+IDxodHRwczovL2xhYnMuZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tL2Rl dmVsb3Blci1jb21tdW5pdHkvYmxvZy9zY3JlZW4tc2hhcmluZz4pDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBTdGVmYW4N Cj4gPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+ IHJ0Y3dlYiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBydGN3ZWJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IHJ0Y3dlYiBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4gcnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vcnRjd2ViDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBydGN3ZWIgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IHJ0Y3dlYkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0K --Apple-Mail-9DA53A6E-91A5-4427-8E01-7AA2D47E97A0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PC9oZWFkPjxib2R5IGJnY29sb3I9IiNGRkZGRkYiPjxkaXY+VG8gYmUgY2xl YXIsIHdlJ3JlIHRhbGtpbmcgYWJvdXQgSC4yNjQvU1ZDLCByaWdodD8gJm5ic3A7PGJyPjwvZGl2 PjxkaXY+PGJyPk9uIERlYyAxLCAyMDExLCBhdCAxODowNSwgIkFyb24gUm9zZW5iZXJnIiAmbHQ7 PGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOmFyb3NlbmJlcmdAbG9naXRlY2guY29tIj5hcm9zZW5iZXJnQGxvZ2l0 ZWNoLmNvbTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj48L2Rpdj48YmxvY2txdW90 ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIj48ZGl2PlNjcmVlbiBzaGFyaW5nIHdvcmtzIGdyZWF0IG92ZXIgSC4yNjQg b3IgVlA4IGZvciB1cy4gWW91IGhhdmUgdG8gdHdlYWsgdGhlIGNvZGVjIGVuY29kaW5nJm5ic3A7 cGFyYW1ldGVycyZuYnNwO2FuZCBGUFMgYSBiaXQsIGJ1dCB5b3UgZ2V0IGdyZWF0IHF1YWxpdHkg ZXZlbiBvbiB0ZXh0LjxiciBjbGVhcj0iYWxsIj48ZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2PkFyb24gUm9z ZW5iZXJnPC9kaXY+PGRpdj5MaWZlU2l6ZSwgYSBkaXZpc2lvbiBvZiBMb2dpdGVjaDwvZGl2Pg0K DQo8ZGl2Pjxicj48L2Rpdj4NCjxicj48YnI+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiPk9uIFRo dSwgRGVjIDEsIDIwMTEgYXQgMTE6MTggQU0sIEhlbnJ5IFNpbm5yZWljaCA8c3BhbiBkaXI9Imx0 ciI+Jmx0OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpoZW5yeS5zaW5ucmVpY2hAZ21haWwuY29tIj5oZW5yeS5z aW5ucmVpY2hAZ21haWwuY29tPC9hPiZndDs8L3NwYW4+IHdyb3RlOjxicj48YmxvY2txdW90ZSBj bGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW46MCAwIDAgLjhleDtib3JkZXItbGVmdDox cHggI2NjYyBzb2xpZDtwYWRkaW5nLWxlZnQ6MWV4OyI+DQoNCkhpIFN0ZWZhbiw8YnI+DQo8YnI+ DQpWaWRlbyBzdWNrcyBmb3Igc2NyZWVuIHNoYXJpbmcsIGRpc3BsYXlpbmcgZG9jdW1lbnRzIG9y IGV2ZW4gcGxhaW4gYnVsbGV0PGJyPg0Kc2xpZGVzLjxicj4NCkRpc3BsYXlpbmcgdGhlIHNjcmVl biBhbmQgZG9jdW1lbnRzIGlzIGluIGEgY29tcGxldGVseSBvdGhlciBsZWFndWUgSU1PLjxicj4N Cjxicj4NClRoYW5rcywgSGVucnk8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpPbiAxMi8xLzExIDk6MTkgQU0s ICJTdGVmYW4gSMOla2Fuc3NvbiBMSyIgJmx0OzxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpzdGVmYW4ubGsuaGFr YW5zc29uQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbSI+c3RlZmFuLmxrLmhha2Fuc3NvbkBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb208L2E+ Jmd0Ozxicj4NCndyb3RlOjxicj4NCjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9IkhPRW5aYiI+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iaDUi Pjxicj4NCiZndDsgUmVsYXRlZCB0byB1c2UtY2FzZSA0LjIuNyAiU2ltcGxlIFZpZGVvIENvbW11 bmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZSB3aXRoPGJyPg0KJmd0OyBzaGFyaW5nIjxicj4NCiZndDsgKCZsdDs8 YSBocmVmPSJodHRwOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtcnRjd2Vi LXVzZS1jYXNlcy1hbmQtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL2RhdGF0 cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLXJ0Y3dlYi11c2UtY2FzZXMtYW5kLXJlcXVp cmVtZW50czwvYT48YnI+DQomZ3Q7IC8/aW5jbHVkZV90ZXh0PTEmZ3Q7KTxicj4NCiZndDsgd2Ug aGFkIGEgc3R1ZGVudCBleHBlcmltZW50aW5nIGEgYml0Ljxicj4NCiZndDs8YnI+DQomZ3Q7IEVz c2VudGlhbGx5LCB0aGUgc2NyZWVuIHdhcyB0cmVhdGVkIGFzIGFub3RoZXIgdmlkZW8gc291cmNl IChqdXN0IGFzIGE8YnI+DQomZ3Q7IGNhbWVyYSksIGFuZCB3YXMgdHJhbnNtaXR0ZWQgdG8gdGhl IG90aGVyIGVuZCBhcyBhIE1lZGlhU3RyZWFtIG92ZXIgYTxicj4NCiZndDsgUGVlckNvbm5lY3Rp b24uPGJyPg0KJmd0Ozxicj4NCiZndDsgVGhlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIG9mIGdldFVzZXJNZWRp YSBhbGxvd2VkIHRoZSBzY3JlZW4gdG8gYmUgc2VsZWN0ZWQgYXM8YnI+DQomZ3Q7IGEgdmlkZW8g c291cmNlLjxicj4NCiZndDs8YnI+DQomZ3Q7IFBlcmhhcHMgdGhpcyBjb3VsZCBiZSBhIHdheSBm b3J3YXJkIGZvciBtZWV0aW5nIHRoaXMgdXNlLWNhc2U/IEFuZDxicj4NCiZndDsgcGVyaGFwcyAi c2NyZWVuIiBzaG91bGQgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBhcyBhIHZhbGlkIG9wdGlvbnMgYXJndW1lbnQgdG88 YnI+DQomZ3Q7IGdldFVzZXJNZWRpYT88YnI+DQomZ3Q7PGJyPg0KJmd0OyAodGhlcmUgaXMgc29t ZSBtb3JlIGluZm8gYWJvdXQgd2hhdCB0aGUgc3R1ZGVudCBkaWQgYXQ8YnI+DQomZ3Q7ICZsdDs8 YSBocmVmPSJodHRwczovL2xhYnMuZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tL2RldmVsb3Blci1jb21tdW5pdHkvYmxv Zy9zY3JlZW4tc2hhcmluZyIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vbGFicy5lcmljc3Nvbi5j b20vZGV2ZWxvcGVyLWNvbW11bml0eS9ibG9nL3NjcmVlbi1zaGFyaW5nPC9hPiZndDspPGJyPg0K Jmd0Ozxicj4NCiZndDsgU3RlZmFuPGJyPg0KJmd0OyBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxicj4NCiZndDsgcnRjd2ViIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdDxicj4N CiZndDsgPGEgaHJlZj0ibWFpbHRvOnJ0Y3dlYkBpZXRmLm9yZyI+cnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnPC9h Pjxicj4NCiZndDsgPGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9ydGN3ZWIiIHRhcmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYjwvYT48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXzxicj4NCnJ0Y3dlYiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8YnI+DQo8 YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86cnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnIj5ydGN3ZWJAaWV0Zi5vcmc8L2E+PGJyPg0K PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9ydGN3ZWIiIHRh cmdldD0iX2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dl YjwvYT48YnI+DQo8L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9kaXY+PGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+PC9i bG9ja3F1b3RlPjxibG9ja3F1b3RlIHR5cGU9ImNpdGUiPjxkaXY+PHNwYW4+X19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX188L3NwYW4+PGJyPjxzcGFuPnJ0Y3dl YiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Q8L3NwYW4+PGJyPjxzcGFuPjxhIGhyZWY9Im1haWx0bzpydGN3ZWJAaWV0 Zi5vcmciPnJ0Y3dlYkBpZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48L3NwYW4+PGJyPjxzcGFuPjxhIGhyZWY9Imh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcnRjd2ViIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYjwvYT48L3NwYW4+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2tx dW90ZT48L2JvZHk+PC9odG1sPg== --Apple-Mail-9DA53A6E-91A5-4427-8E01-7AA2D47E97A0-- From stefan.lk.hakansson@ericsson.com Fri Dec 2 05:49:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F7C21F9338 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 05:49:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g5TIMc3pY5Ha for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 05:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (mailgw9.se.ericsson.net [193.180.251.57]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71ACE21F931D for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 05:49:48 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb39-b7b3eae00000252a-fd-4ed8d77b84c3 Received: from esessmw0237.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw9.se.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 64.A1.09514.B77D8DE4; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:49:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from [150.132.142.245] (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0237.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.137.0; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:49:47 +0100 Message-ID: <4ED8D77A.30209@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:49:46 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_H=E5kansson_LK?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111110 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 13:49:52 -0000 On 12/02/2011 01:31 AM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document > under discussion? All I can say is that in the little testing we did it looks quite OK. If you want to you can test our using our lib; depending on what GStreamer plug-ins you add Theora (no plug-in added), VP8 or H.264 would be used. But probably Aron's/Justin's experiences are more valid as those are based on live services if I understand correctly. My conclusion is that using video for screen sharing can be a quick way forward. > > If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the > codec tweaking enabled via the API? I proposed that a "screen" option could be added to the API (now "audio" and "video" is there). If "screen" is selected, the codec parameters could be tweaked accordingly (we have no tweaking in our current lib though) > > Thanks, Henry > > > On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" wrote: > > Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to > tweak the codec encoding parameters and FPS a bit, but you get great > quality even on text. > > Aron Rosenberg > LifeSize, a division of Logitech > > > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich > wrote: > > Hi Stefan, > > Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even > plain bullet > slides. > Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other > league IMO. > > Thanks, Henry > > > On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan Håkansson LK" > > wrote: > > > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Service with > > sharing" > > > ( > /?include_text=1>) > > we had a student experimenting a bit. > > > > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source > (just as a > > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStream > over a > > PeerConnection. > > > > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be > selected as > > a video source. > > > > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-case? And > > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argument to > > getUserMedia? > > > > (there is some more info about what the student did at > > > > >) > > > > Stefan > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > From emil@sip-communicator.org Fri Dec 2 06:18:25 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51A821F8B01 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 06:18:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id piq588ssE+sV for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 06:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877BC21F8B95 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 06:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by vbbez10 with SMTP id ez10so2628456vbb.31 for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.88.231 with SMTP id bj7mr9346346vdb.81.1322835500868; Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from pastropnet.u-strasbg.fr ([2001:660:4701:1001:a8f1:15d:9fdb:47e9]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id id7sm9961754vdb.21.2011.12.02.06.18.19 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 02 Dec 2011 06:18:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4ED8DE2A.9000102@jitsi.org> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:18:18 +0100 From: Emil Ivov Organization: Jitsi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Thunderbird/3.1.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_H=E5kansson_LK?= References: <4ED8D77A.30209@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <4ED8D77A.30209@ericsson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Screen sharing X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:18:26 -0000 FWIW, that's how we've been doing desktop sharing in Jitsi for quite a while now and the feedback is quite positive. Quality more than satisfactory and bandwidth is way better than what you get with things like VNC. --=20 http://jitsi.org On 02.12.11 14:49, Stefan H=E5kansson LK wrote: > On 12/02/2011 01:31 AM, Henry Sinnreich wrote: >> Can remote meeting attendees read the print on say a legal document >> under discussion? > All I can say is that in the little testing we did it looks quite OK. I= f=20 > you want to you can test our using our lib; depending on what GStreamer= =20 > plug-ins you add Theora (no plug-in added), VP8 or H.264 would be used.= >=20 > But probably Aron's/Justin's experiences are more valid as those are=20 > based on live services if I understand correctly. >=20 > My conclusion is that using video for screen sharing can be a quick way= =20 > forward. >> >> If yes for commercial grade quality (I still have doubts), how is the >> codec tweaking enabled via the API? > I proposed that a "screen" option could be added to the API (now "audio= "=20 > and "video" is there). If "screen" is selected, the codec parameters=20 > could be tweaked accordingly (we have no tweaking in our current lib th= ough) >> >> Thanks, Henry >> >> >> On 12/1/11 5:05 PM, "Aron Rosenberg" wrote: >> >> Screen sharing works great over H.264 or VP8 for us. You have to >> tweak the codec encoding parameters and FPS a bit, but you get gre= at >> quality even on text. >> >> Aron Rosenberg >> LifeSize, a division of Logitech >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Henry Sinnreich >> wrote: >> >> Hi Stefan, >> >> Video sucks for screen sharing, displaying documents or even >> plain bullet >> slides. >> Displaying the screen and documents is in a completely other >> league IMO. >> >> Thanks, Henry >> >> >> On 12/1/11 9:19 AM, "Stefan H=E5kansson LK" >> >> wrote: >> >> > Related to use-case 4.2.7 "Simple Video Communication Servi= ce with >> > sharing" >> > >> (> > /?include_text=3D1>) >> > we had a student experimenting a bit. >> > >> > Essentially, the screen was treated as another video source= >> (just as a >> > camera), and was transmitted to the other end as a MediaStr= eam >> over a >> > PeerConnection. >> > >> > The implementation of getUserMedia allowed the screen to be= >> selected as >> > a video source. >> > >> > Perhaps this could be a way forward for meeting this use-ca= se? And >> > perhaps "screen" should be defined as a valid options argum= ent to >> > getUserMedia? >> > >> > (there is some more info about what the student did at >> > >> >> >) >> > >> > Stefan >> > _______________________________________________ >> > rtcweb mailing list >> > rtcweb@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >=20 From giles@thaumas.net Fri Dec 2 15:18:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B1121F899D for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 15:18:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KFS3yiKUM2CU for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 15:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vx0-f172.google.com (mail-vx0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0126521F893C for ; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 15:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by vcbfy13 with SMTP id fy13so3075934vcb.31 for ; Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:18:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.92.210 with SMTP id co18mr150488vdb.111.1322867897246; Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.84.213 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 15:18:16 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [184.71.166.126] In-Reply-To: <201111300518.pAU5I3SJ021725@mtv-core-2.cisco.com> References: <201111171620.pAHGKK9M016833@mtv-core-3.cisco.com> <4ED53736.4030703@alvestrand.no> <201111300518.pAU5I3SJ021725@mtv-core-2.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 15:18:16 -0800 Message-ID: From: Ralph Giles To: "James M. Polk" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video resolution SHOULDs (Re: resolutions in draft-cbran-rtcweb-codec-01) X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:18:19 -0000 On 29 November 2011 21:18, James M. Polk wrote: > not meaning to open a can of worms, but what still requires interlaced > video? Most new things convert I to P, but less of these convert P to I. I guess I didn't respond to this, but what Harald said is a good summary. There are certainly still interlaced display devices in active use. For example, the screen in our video conferencing room only does 1080i, not 1080p, but the issue is more going the other direction. There are reasons to produce interlaced content still; for high-motion sources (like sport) the additional temporal resolution can give a better experience without the (mostly unsupported) overhead of 60p. That said, interlaced media support shouldn't be a requirement for this draft. -r From ted.ietf@gmail.com Mon Dec 5 09:56:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76B7321F8C51 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 09:56:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.462, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0kJxbZz8a5Dy for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA96721F8C4F for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by ghrr18 with SMTP id r18so5502495ghr.31 for ; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=VQmw8mHOvaaAdvCHHUGzc7/2Oq028awFSFWPP0gcVJg=; b=gsC0O0itZZCXax5apH+ibo41lVuR1FgDh8jlhsJ7/xMWs8sYreAsPCyw1nUl5wg/Zs lJSXmNweVjRYO6K2zsJQoV6BcPu65L0ghxj7dpiSagnb7Pp5sb8h+sBFW6tze6TaFr64 yLjoGfpE3GVPjHN8efhKyiw3qF+rTwFn8lm+4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.137.9 with SMTP id p9mr897002ann.71.1323107805304; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.156.40 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 09:56:45 -0800 Message-ID: From: Ted Hardie To: rtcweb@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e68ef413bc177504b35c0a80 Subject: [rtcweb] Results of Doodle Poll=Interim meeting 1/31/2012-2/1/2012 San Jose X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:56:46 -0000 --0016e68ef413bc177504b35c0a80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Though it was very tight, the doodle poll results have come in supporting an interim meeting January 31st to February 1st, 2012, in San Jose. The presumption at the moment is that we will start at 9:00 or so Janurary 31st and run as the IETF WG until noon of February 1st, with a half day meeting of the W3C group at the end. Agenda time slots and logistical details will be forthcoming soon. Ted, Cullen, Magnus --0016e68ef413bc177504b35c0a80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Though it was very tight, the doodle poll results have come in supporting a= n interim meeting January 31st to February 1st, 2012, in San Jose.=A0=A0 Th= e presumption at the moment is that we will start at 9:00 or so Janurary 31= st and run as the IETF WG until noon of February 1st, with a half day meeti= ng of the W3C group at the end.=A0 Agenda time slots and logistical details= will be forthcoming soon.

Ted, Cullen, Magnus
--0016e68ef413bc177504b35c0a80-- From kpfleming@digium.com Mon Dec 5 12:44:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF57011E8082 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:44:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zi5Yx+Ew2bus for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.digium.com (mail.digium.com [216.207.245.2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF541F0C6C for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 12:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.digium.internal ([10.24.55.203] helo=zimbra.hsv.digium.com) by mail.digium.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RXfOb-0004YA-C5 for rtcweb@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:44:17 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.hsv.digium.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B182D8005 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from zimbra.hsv.digium.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.hsv.digium.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0T3H4uAnTPvv for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from [10.24.250.46] (unknown [10.24.250.46]) by zimbra.hsv.digium.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0620ED8002 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:44:17 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4EDD2D20.8080302@digium.com> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:44:16 -0600 From: "Kevin P. Fleming" Organization: Digium, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111124 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Results of Doodle Poll=Interim meeting 1/31/2012-2/1/2012 San Jose X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:44:19 -0000 On 12/05/2011 11:56 AM, Ted Hardie wrote: > Though it was very tight, the doodle poll results have come in > supporting an interim meeting January 31st to February 1st, 2012, in San > Jose. The presumption at the moment is that we will start at 9:00 or > so Janurary 31st and run as the IETF WG until noon of February 1st, with > a half day meeting of the W3C group at the end. Agenda time slots and > logistical details will be forthcoming soon. I'm guessing there will be some sort of break around 5:00PM or so on the 31st and resumption at 9:00AM on the 1st, otherwise we're all going to be pretty tired on the second day :-) -- Kevin P. Fleming Digium, Inc. | Director of Software Technologies Jabber: kfleming@digium.com | SIP: kpfleming@digium.com | Skype: kpfleming 445 Jan Davis Drive NW - Huntsville, AL 35806 - USA Check us out at www.digium.com & www.asterisk.org From stephen.botzko@gmail.com Mon Dec 5 13:38:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFA811E8099 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 13:38:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RNb8iO7Vtxv5 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 13:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f44.google.com (mail-qw0-f44.google.com [209.85.216.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0666D11E8081 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by qadb15 with SMTP id b15so2158230qad.10 for ; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=yF/LEv13asDP8Yau7hQSCp84weDorMpwZFS+HWMJ7tI=; b=lR5hVwKPL/m1O8Tmb+oBOfo/GdBkgIvzvWEbSGKY191zhOtIhSwcOBBws1hi5z09PX Ev3b7Rhs8e5omml2tmVep37xHZ+AulRp+8vcJ+QhWwIpSGRZxvPMNjwUhEOTHMUKNU1R MazHUYmg0jNcecFcLuh5Ba9ErzGpnweqZYYgw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.216.197 with SMTP id hj5mr9522354qab.15.1323121130537; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.181.205 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 13:38:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201111171620.pAHGKK9M016833@mtv-core-3.cisco.com> <4ED53736.4030703@alvestrand.no> <201111300518.pAU5I3SJ021725@mtv-core-2.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 16:38:50 -0500 Message-ID: From: Stephen Botzko To: Ralph Giles Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf300fb3c7fb035304b35f2492 Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video resolution SHOULDs (Re: resolutions in draft-cbran-rtcweb-codec-01) X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:38:53 -0000 --20cf300fb3c7fb035304b35f2492 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Ralph Giles wrote: > On 29 November 2011 21:18, James M. Polk wrote: > > > not meaning to open a can of worms, but what still requires interlaced > > video? Most new things convert I to P, but less of these convert P to I. > > I guess I didn't respond to this, but what Harald said is a good > summary. There are certainly still interlaced display devices in > active use. For example, the screen in our video conferencing room > only does 1080i, not 1080p, but the issue is more going the other > direction. > > There are reasons to produce interlaced content still; for high-motion > sources (like sport) the additional temporal resolution can give a > better experience without the (mostly unsupported) overhead of 60p. > That said, interlaced media support shouldn't be a requirement for > this draft. > I believe there is a lot of IPR on interlaced coding, which should also be taken into account. It is quite easy to convert 30p to 60i for display. On the other hand, turning 60i to 30p for progressive PC displays is certainly possible, but most software PC players do a very poor job of it. Interlaced coding and deinterlacing both carry a delay penalty. So I think interlaced media should be a non-requirement for RTCWEB. BTW, ESPN uses 720p60 instead of 1080i60 in order to get better motion handling, so I am puzzled by the (mostly unsupported) comment. - sb > -r > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > --20cf300fb3c7fb035304b35f2492 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Ralph Gi= les <giles@thauma= s.net> wrote:
On 29 November 2011 21:18, James M. Polk <jmpolk@cisco.com> wrote:

> not meaning to open a can of worms, but what still requires interlaced=
> video? Most new things convert I to P, but less of these convert P to = I.

I guess I didn't respond to this, but what Harald said is a good<= br> summary. There are certainly still interlaced display devices in
active use. For example, the screen in our video conferencing room
only does 1080i, not 1080p, but the issue is more going the other
direction.

There are reasons to produce interlaced content still; for high-motion
sources (like sport) the additional temporal resolution can give a
better experience without the (mostly unsupported) overhead of 60p.
That said, interlaced media support shouldn't be a requirement for
this draft.
=A0
I believe there is a lot of = IPR on interlaced coding, which should also be taken into account.
=A0 <= br>It is quite easy to convert 30p to 60i for display.=A0

On the ot= her hand, turning 60i to 30p for progressive PC displays is certainly possi= ble, but most software PC players do a very poor job of it.=A0 Interlaced c= oding and deinterlacing both carry a delay penalty.

So I think interlaced media should be a non-requirement for RTCWEB.
=
BTW, ESPN uses 720p60 instead of 1080i60 in order to get better motion = handling, so I am puzzled by the (mostly unsupported) comment.

- sb<= br>

=A0-r
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--20cf300fb3c7fb035304b35f2492-- From ted.ietf@gmail.com Mon Dec 5 14:12:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98AD11E80B0 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:12:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.754 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.754 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.422, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_47=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YYpYTSQ2eRC5 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0382111E80A2 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by ywm13 with SMTP id 13so5656069ywm.31 for ; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:12:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=c6htMIqvnfXdbHkUkI6fMUVA8j7B3G8FadyfATdfjFc=; b=RwsZpN/73IV/KkSHNON8JI6hUpdSZ/7kMHg/vTrtp/zGw4Qj891K3Fr6eztWLwAps+ /9O6UEpGiwPc7V4nmFtGu2ek2VJi7nu4k16LczQQqBpdppiImx2inEBbIfsB4n0ZYSVi 9OT/Ko7vWOh1cV9lVzFf4mMvUkibZa05OSCNI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.145.72 with SMTP id o48mr15534964yhj.86.1323123151517; Mon, 05 Dec 2011 14:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.156.40 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:12:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4EDD2D20.8080302@digium.com> References: <4EDD2D20.8080302@digium.com> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 14:12:31 -0800 Message-ID: From: Ted Hardie To: "Kevin P. Fleming" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303b390570b6d004b35f9d41 Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Results of Doodle Poll=Interim meeting 1/31/2012-2/1/2012 San Jose X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:12:32 -0000 --20cf303b390570b6d004b35f9d41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: > > I'm guessing there will be some sort of break around 5:00PM or so on the > 31st and resumption at 9:00AM on the 1st, otherwise we're all going to be > pretty tired on the second day :-) > > Sure, but you should understand that the drinking during the break will be IETF-style. That's important, as it tells the IPv6 geeks that they need to bring whiskey, and the rest of us to plan for beer. Ted > -- > Kevin P. Fleming > Digium, Inc. | Director of Software Technologies > Jabber: kfleming@digium.com | SIP: kpfleming@digium.com | Skype: kpfleming > 445 Jan Davis Drive NW - Huntsville, AL 35806 - USA > Check us out at www.digium.com & www.asterisk.org > ______________________________**_________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/rtcweb > --20cf303b390570b6d004b35f9d41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Kevin P. Fleming <kpfleming@digium.com> wr= ote:

I'm guessing there will be some sort of break around 5:00PM or so on th= e 31st and resumption at 9:00AM on the 1st, otherwise we're all going t= o be pretty tired on the second day :-)


Sure, but you should understand that the d= rinking during the break will be IETF-style.=A0 That's important, as it= tells the IPv6 geeks that they need to bring whiskey, and the rest of us t= o plan for beer.

Ted


=A0
--
Kevin P. Fleming
Digium, Inc. | Director of Software Technologies
Jabber: kfleming@d= igium.com | SIP: kpfleming@digium.com | Skype: kpfleming
445 Jan Davis Drive NW - Huntsville, AL 35806 - USA
Check us out at www.dig= ium.com & www= .asterisk.org
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--20cf303b390570b6d004b35f9d41-- From salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com Sun Dec 11 23:22:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CE521F87D6 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:22:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_93=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MNnpnKX8m2Pj for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw10.se.ericsson.net (mailgw10.se.ericsson.net [193.180.251.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6283921F8713 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:22:14 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3d-b7cfeae000005b81-c0-4ee5aba43035 Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw10.se.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1C.CF.23425.4ABA5EE4; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 08:22:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se (153.88.115.8) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (153.88.115.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.3.137.0; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 08:22:12 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D4F231D for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:22:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB9B51B96 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:22:12 +0200 (EET) Received: from n211.nomadiclab.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F3850F83 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:22:11 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4EE5ABA3.1040100@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:22:11 +0200 From: Salvatore Loreto User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org References: <20111211221813.6072772E00C@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20111211221813.6072772E00C@rfc-editor.org> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20111211221813.6072772E00C@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050101080501020206090108" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [rtcweb] FYI WebSocket Protocol - RFC 6455 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 07:22:15 -0000 --------------050101080501020206090108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI WebSocket Protocol is now RFC 6455 /Sal -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [hybi] RFC 6455 on The WebSocket Protocol Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:18:10 +0100 From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org To: ietf-announce@ietf.org , rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org CC: hybi@ietf.org , rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 6455 Title: The WebSocket Protocol Author: I. Fette, A. Melnikov Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: December 2011 Mailbox: ifette+ietf@google.com, Alexey.Melnikov@isode.com Pages: 71 Characters: 162067 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-17.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6455.txt The WebSocket Protocol enables two-way communication between a client running untrusted code in a controlled environment to a remote host that has opted-in to communications from that code. The security model used for this is the origin-based security model commonly used by web browsers. The protocol consists of an opening handshake followed by basic message framing, layered over TCP. The goal of this technology is to provide a mechanism for browser-based applications that need two-way communication with servers that does not rely on opening multiple HTTP connections (e.g., using XMLHttpRequest or