From nobody Tue May 2 01:17:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A001294DF; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gA81FVeDCZwy; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 07:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw030.noc.ntt.com (mgw030.noc.ntt.com [210.160.55.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92B312947D; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 07:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c0043i0.coe.ntt.com (c0043i0.nc.agilit-hosting.com [10.18.161.12]) by mgw030.noc.ntt.com (NTT Com MailSV) with ESMTP id 66FC81C58950; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 23:10:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from C0147I0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.160.111) by c0043i0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.161.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.339.0; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 23:10:40 +0900 Received: from C0561I0.coe.ntt.com ([169.254.1.133]) by C0147I0.coe.ntt.com ([10.18.160.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Sat, 29 Apr 2017 23:10:39 +0900 From: Tomonori Takeda To: "'rtg-ads@ietf.org'" CC: "'rtg-dir@ietf.org'" <'rtg-dir@ietf.org'>, "'draft-ietf-rtgwg-spf-uloop-pb-statement.all@ietf.org'" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RTG-DIR QA review: draft-ietf-rtgwg-spf-uloop-pb-statement-03.txt Thread-Index: AdLA7qLGXj0F8yDgRaK42VOyHjaunA== Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:10:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: ja-JP, en-US Content-Language: ja-JP X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ccmail-original-to: rtg-ads@ietf.org x-ccmail-original-cc: 'rtg-dir@ietf.org', draft-ietf-rtgwg-spf-uloop-pb-statement.all@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org x-originating-ip: [10.25.154.86] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 02 May 2017 01:17:05 -0700 Subject: [RTG-DIR] RTG-DIR QA review: draft-ietf-rtgwg-spf-uloop-pb-statement-03.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 14:11:09 -0000 Hi, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate QA reviewer for this draft. Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-spf-uloop-pb-statement-03.txt Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda Review Date: April 29, 2017 Intended Status: Standards Track Here are my comments. Overall, the document is well organized and clear about problem statement and analysis of SPF triggers and SPF delays impact on micro-loops. Some specific comments. 1) The document is intended to be Standards Track. I do not think it is common for such analysis document to be Standards Track. 2) Just a nits, but in page 12, it says "In the figure 5", but it seems figures are not numbered. 3) In Section 4.2. Exponential backoff, it is not clear what is a condition (or conditions) to move from FM to BM. Thanks, Tomonori Takeda From nobody Tue May 2 02:14:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5069F129B76; Tue, 2 May 2017 02:14:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swo-oBu85r4Z; Tue, 2 May 2017 02:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C283127342; Tue, 2 May 2017 02:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.68]) by opfednr24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0D4D54044A; Tue, 2 May 2017 11:09:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.52]) by opfednr04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id B24E34006F; Tue, 2 May 2017 11:09:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORM2F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::994e:c3e:1d70:d2b4]) by OPEXCNORM54.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d4c1:bb8:4040:a2bb%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Tue, 2 May 2017 11:09:20 +0200 From: To: Alexander Vainshtein , "vainshtein.alex@gmail.com" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" , "Jonathan Hardwick (Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com)" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" , "chrisbowers.ietf@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Early RTG-DIR review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04 Thread-Index: AdK8QEEK4unKSUKcREikSjn35QwsHwG4h3lQ Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 09:09:19 +0000 Message-ID: <4720_1493716160_59084CC0_4720_340_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31CE985A@OPEXCNORM2F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31CE985AOPEXCNORM2Fcorp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Early RTG-DIR review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2017 09:14:42 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31CE985AOPEXCNORM2Fcorp_ 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AN3rC/7tgJ4MSJXBml4ssRx4aPcWJhXJFXFbRPEvbMo9Or1cJ7FlgHmZ +b0SEvyLVJXR0AnyCCyDDOy+PrQ5ZmFk X-Received: by 10.36.41.72 with SMTP id p69mr2235131itp.84.1493720384706; Tue, 02 May 2017 03:19:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.35.139 with HTTP; Tue, 2 May 2017 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.35.139 with HTTP; Tue, 2 May 2017 03:19:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4720_1493716160_59084CC0_4720_340_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31CE985A@OPEXCNORM2F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4720_1493716160_59084CC0_4720_340_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31CE985A@OPEXCNORM2F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Alexander Vainshtein Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 13:19:43 +0300 Message-ID: To: Bruno Decraene Cc: chrisbowers.ietf@gmail.com, rtgwg@ietf.org, rtg-dir@ietf.org, jefftant.ietf@gmail.com, Alexander Vainshtein , "Jonathan Hardwick (Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com)" , rtg-ads@ietf.org, draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113f837eec9efa054e87e042 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Early RTG-DIR review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2017 10:24:24 -0000 --001a113f837eec9efa054e87e042 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruno, Lots of thanks for a prompt response. I have looked up the -05 version, and it addresses all concerns I've raised in my review. Regards, Sasha On May 2, 2017 12:09, wrote: > Hi Sasha, > > > > Many thanks for your careful review. > > Your comments have been constructive, useful and helped clarifying the > draft. Thanks for this. > > > > We have updated the draft as per your comments. We believe that -05 > address all your comments. If it does not, please comment back. > > Draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-05 > > Diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg- > backoff-algo-05.txt > > > > > > --Bruno, on behalf of all authors. > > > > *From:* rtg-dir [mailto:rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Alexande= r > Vainshtein > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:25 PM > *To:* jefftant.ietf@gmail.com; chrisbowers.ietf@gmail.com > *Cc:* rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo@ietf.org; > rtg-ads@ietf.org; vainshtein.alex@gmail.com; Jonathan Hardwick ( > Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com); rtgwg@ietf.org > *Subject:* [RTG-DIR] Early RTG-DIR review of > draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04 > > > > Hello, > > > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate as an early reviewer for > this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or > routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG revie= w, > and sometimes on special request. In this case an early review has been > requested by Jeff Tantsura =E2=80=93 one of the co-chairs of the RTGWG. > > The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. > For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > > > *Document*: draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04 > > *Reviewer*: Alexander (=E2=80=9CSasha=E2=80=9D) Vainshtein > > *Review Date*: 27-Apr-17 > > *IETF LC End Date*: N/A > > *Intended Status*: Standards Track > > > > *Summary*: > > I have some minor concerns about this document that, from my POV, should > be resolved before publication. > > > > *Comments*: > > The draft is very well written, and, with one notable exception, easy to > understand. > > It represents an attempt to standardize one aspect of behavior of > link-state routing protocols: delay between the first IGP event that > triggers new SPF computation and the SPF calculation. Until now, this bee= n > left for the implementers to play with freely. The resulting differences > have been known for quite some time to result in some case in transient > micro-loops. > > > > The resolution proposed in this draft includes a well-defined FSM and a > full set of tunable parameters (timers) used in this FSM. > > The range and granularity of all the tunable parameters are explicitly > defined in the document so that the operator would be able to tune its > network to use exactly the same SPF delay algorithm with exactly the same > parameters. (The default values are not defined because one size does not > fit all in this case). > > > > It should be noticed that the draft does not intend to provide a > comprehensive solution of the micro-loop problems. > > Rather, it provides a common baseline upon which specific solutions for > these problems can be built (e.g., see draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay > > ). > > > > *Major Issues*: None found. > > > > *Minor Issues*: > > 1. The exception to good readability of the draft refers to the > term =E2=80=9C*proximate* failures/IGP events=E2=80=9D that appears 4 tim= es in the draft. > English is not my mother tongue, and the reference > I=E2=80=99ve looked= up did > not help much. =E2=80=9CTemporally close=E2=80=9D (or something along the= se lines) looks > like a suitable alternative. (Does this comment run strictly against the > recommendation for the RTG-DIR reviewers =E2=80=9Cto avoid raising esoter= ic > questions of English usage=E2=80=9D?) > > 2. Section 5 mentions starting the SPF_TIMER (with one of the 3 > values defined for it) as part of the response to some FSM events if it w= as > not already running - but *it does not specify what happens when this > timer expires*. I assume that its expiration leaves the FSM in its > current state and results in running the SPF computation =E2=80=93 if thi= s is > correct, it would be nice to say that explicitly. > > 3. Section 7 recommends that, in order to mitigate micro-loop > problems using the proposed algorithm, =E2=80=9Call routers in the IGP do= main, or > at least all the routers in the same area/level, have exactly the same > configured values=E2=80=9D of the relevant timers . However, the draft d= oes not > specify whether these timers should be configured just at the protocol > instance level or also at the level of each specific area/level. From my > POV, the *granularity of configuration* should be defined in this draft = =E2=80=93 > one way or another. > > 4. The latest versions of the YANG data model drafts for IS-IS and > OSPF already define the timers introduced in this draft. But *there are > no references to these drafts in the document*. From my POV such > references (Informational and therefore non-blocking) would be useful for > the readers, and I suggest to add them. > > 5. I have some concerns regarding *incremental introduction and > activation of the proposed algorithm*. The operator that runs a > well-tuned network may experience transient problems when some of its > routers are already upgraded and use the proposed back-off algorithm whil= e > some others still cannot do that. Some text explaining potential issues i= n > this scenario and, if possible, their mitigation, would be most helpful. > > 6. The explanatory text in the draft seems to strongly suggest > that *SPF_INITIAL_DELAY <=3D SPF_SHORT_DELAY <=3D SPF_LONG_DELAY *=E2= =80=93 but > this is not formalized as a requirement anywhere in the text. From my POV > satisfying this relationship should be RECOMMENDED to the operators. > > > > *NITS*: > > 1. Section 3 lists 3 possible values for the SPF_DELAY variable > called INITIAL_SPF_DELAY, SHORT SPF_DELAY and LONG_SPF_DELAY. Then, in th= e > last para, it refers to *a previously undefined value, INITIAL_WAIT*. > This is an obvious typo and should be replaced with INITIAL_SPF_DELAY > > 2. One of the parameters of the algorithm is called > *HOLD_DOWN_INTERVAL* (in Section 3 and Section 6) vs. *HOLDDOWN_INTERVAL= * > in Section 5. This also looks like an obvious typo, and the same name > should be used across the document. > > > > I have discussed my concerns about the draft with the authors who have > been most cooperative. > > I believe that we have reached an agreement on acceptable resolution of > all concerns listed above. > > > > Regards, > > Sasha > > > > Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302> > > Cell: +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302> > > Email: Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have > received this > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then > delete the original > and all copies thereof. > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid= entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages = electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i= nformation that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de= lete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > --001a113f837eec9efa054e87e042 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bruno,
Lots of thanks for a prompt respo= nse.
I have looked up the -05 version, and it addres= ses all concerns I've raised in my review.

<= /div>
Regards,
Sasha

On May 2, 2017 12:09= , <bruno.decraene@orange.c= om> wrote:

Hi Sash= a,

= =C2=A0

Many th= anks for your careful review.

Your co= mments have been constructive, useful and helped clarifying the draft. Than= ks for this.

= =C2=A0

We have= updated the draft as per your comments. We believe that -05 address all yo= ur comments. If it does not, please comment back.

Draft: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-05<= u>

Diff: <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-al= go-05.txt" target=3D"_blank"> https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-al= go-05.txt

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

--Bruno= , on behalf of all authors.

= =C2=A0

From: rtg-dir = [mailto:rtg-d= ir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:25 PM
To: jef= ftant.ietf@gmail.com; chrisbowers.ietf@gmail.com
Cc: rtg-dir@ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo@ietf.org; rtg-ads@ietf.org; vainshtein.alex@gmail.co= m; Jonathan Hardwick (Jonathan.Hardwick@metaswitch.com); rtgwg@ietf.org
Subject: [RTG-DIR] Early RTG-DIR review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-= algo-04

=C2=A0

Hello,

=C2=A0

I have been selected as the Rou= ting Directorate as an early reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directora= te seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass throu= gh IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. In this case an early review has been reques= ted by Jeff Tantsura =E2=80=93 one of the co-chairs of the RTGWG.=

The purpose of the review is to= provide assistance to the Routing ADs.=C2=A0=C2=A0 For more information ab= out the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.= ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

=C2=A0

Document: draft-ietf-rtgwg-backoff-algo-04

Reviewer: Alexander (=E2=80=9CSasha=E2=80=9D) Vainshtein

Review Date: 27-Apr-17

IETF LC End Date<= span lang=3D"EN-US">: N/A

Intended Status: Standards Track

=C2=A0

Summary:

I have some minor concerns abou= t this document that, from my POV, should be resolved before publication.

=C2=A0

Comments:

The draft is very well written,= and, with one notable exception, easy to understand.<= /p>

It represents an attempt to sta= ndardize one aspect of behavior of link-state routing protocols: delay betw= een the first IGP event that triggers new SPF computation and the SPF calcu= lation. Until now, this been left for the implementers to play with freely. The resulting differences have been = known for quite some time to result in some case in transient micro-loops. = =C2=A0

=C2=A0

The resolution proposed in this= draft includes a well-defined FSM and a full set of tunable parameters (ti= mers) used in this FSM.

The range and granularity of al= l the tunable parameters are explicitly defined in the document so that the= operator would be able to tune its network to use exactly the same SPF del= ay algorithm with exactly the same parameters. (The default values are not defined because one size does not fit all in t= his case).

=C2=A0

It should be noticed that the d= raft does not intend to provide a comprehensive solution of the micro-loop = problems.=C2=A0

Rather, it provides a common ba= seline upon which specific solutions for these problems can be built (e.g.,= see draft-ietf-rtgwg-uloop-delay).

=C2=A0

Major Issues: None found.

=C2=A0

Minor Issues:

1.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The exception to good readability of the draft = refers to the term =E2=80=9Cproximate failures/IGP events=E2= =80=9D that appears 4 times in the draft. English is not my mother tongue, = and the reference I=E2=80=99ve looked up did not help much. =E2=80=9CTem= porally close=E2=80=9D (or something along these lines) looks like a suitab= le alternative. (Does this comment run strictly against the recommendation = for the RTG-DIR reviewers =E2=80=9Cto avoid raising esoteric questions of Engl= ish usage=E2=80=9D?)

2.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 5 mentions starting the SPF_TIMER (with= one of the 3 values defined for it) as part of the response to some FSM ev= ents if it was not already running -=C2=A0 but it does not specify what happens when this timer expires. I a= ssume that its expiration leaves the FSM in its current state and results i= n running the SPF computation =E2=80=93 if this is correct, it would be nic= e to say that explicitly.

3.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 7 recommends that,=C2=A0 in order to mi= tigate micro-loop problems using the proposed algorithm, =E2=80=9Call route= rs in the IGP domain, or at least all the routers in the same area/level, h= ave exactly the same configured=C2=A0 values=E2=80=9D of the relevant timers . However, the draft does not specify whether these timers= should be configured just at the protocol instance level or also at the le= vel of each specific area/level. From my POV, the granularity of configuration should be defined in this draft = =E2=80=93 one way or another.

4.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The latest versions of the YANG data model draf= ts for IS-IS and OSPF already define the timers introduced in this draft. B= ut there are no references to these drafts in the document. From= my POV such references (Informational and therefore non-blocking) would be= useful for the readers, and I suggest to add them.

5.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I have some concerns regarding incrementa= l introduction and activation of the proposed algorithm. The operat= or that runs a well-tuned network may experience transient problems when so= me of its routers are already upgraded and use the proposed back-off algorithm while some others still cannot do = that. Some text explaining potential issues in this scenario and, if possib= le, their mitigation, would be most helpful.

6.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The explanatory text in the draft seems to stro= ngly suggest that=C2=A0 =E2=80=93=C2=A0 but this is not formalized = as a requirement anywhere in the text. From my POV satisfying this relation= ship should be RECOMMENDED to the operators.

=C2=A0

NITS:

1.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 3 lists 3 possible values for the SPF_D= ELAY variable called INITIAL_SPF_DELAY, SHORT SPF_DELAY and LONG_SPF_DELAY.= Then, in the last para, it refers to a previously undefined value, INITIAL_WAIT. This is an obviou= s typo and should be replaced with INITIAL_SPF_DELAY

2.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 One of the parameters of the algorithm is calle= d HOLD_DOWN_INTERVAL (in Section 3 and Section 6)=C2=A0 vs. HOLDDOWN_INTERVAL in Section 5. This also looks like an obvious typo= , and the same name should be used across the document.

=C2=A0

I have discussed my concerns ab= out the draft with the authors who have been most cooperative.

I believe that we have reached = an agreement on acceptable resolution of all concerns listed above.<= u>

=C2=A0

Regards,

Sasha

=C2=A0

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 +972-549266302

Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=C2=A0


_________________________________________________________________= __________

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CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
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--001a113f837eec9efa054e87e042-- From nobody Wed May 3 02:32:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C4212954E; Wed, 3 May 2017 02:32:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Jonathan Hardwick To: Cc: draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149380395894.21423.18366134547138249926@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 02:32:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 09:32:39 -0000 Reviewer: Daniele Ceccarelli Review result: Has Nits Hello, I’ve been selected as the QA reviewer for draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02. I believe the draft is well written and quite easy to understand, I just have some minor suggestion that might be help improving the readability (mostly for non subject experts). - Title: the title is not very clear, while the abstract explains very well in the first sentence what the goal of the draft is, what about changing it into: “A logical organization for network device YANG models” ? - Introduction: You are referencing an individual draft. This could be a block for the draft, but most of all does it make sense to have two separate drafts (in two different WGs), one to say the value of organizing YANG models and the other one defining a logical organization for the models? (maybe too late for such change) - Introduction: this sentence is a bit confusing: “ This document refers to two new modules that are expected to be implemented. These models are defined to support the configuration and operation of network-devices that allow for the partitioning of resources from both, or either, management and networking perspectives. Two forms of resource partitioning are referenced:” Maybe a modules/models mismatch? You start saying that the doc refers to two MODULES, then you say that MODELS are defined and the list two FORMS OF RESOURCE PARTITIONING. - Intro: “ Should structural-mount/YSDL not be available, the more explicit tree structure presented in earlier versions of this document will need to be utilized.” If it was described in previous versions of the document it is no longer available, or ? - Scope: as I got it while reading and as it is confirmed in the draft, the scope is “limited” to physical and virtual switches and routers and not devices operating at the lower layers. Since you say “we consider network devices that support protocols and functions defined within the IETF Routing Area” I would expect it to cover also lower layer devices. - Section 2: Section 2 and its subsection are very clear and explain well the concepts but it is not clear where the list comes from. It partially overlaps with the “overall structure” example above but at least having all of them in the overall structure plus some others (provided as example and not analyzed in the details with dedicated subsection ) would help. BR Daniele From nobody Wed May 3 07:54:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF471294D2; Wed, 3 May 2017 07:54:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stewart Bryant To: Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149382325961.21410.10726283274929738928@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 07:54:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early partial review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 14:54:20 -0000 Review is partially done. Another review request has been registered for completing it. Reviewer: Stewart Bryant Review result: Has Issues Firstly I should say that I am not an expert in YANG, hence my suggestion that you may wish to assign an additional reviewer. However in reviewing this a number of questions and issues arose: 2. Overview This document defines the following data types: SB> Accessibility note - the order of types seems random. It might SB> be more helpful to the reader if they were, in a systematic order SB> for example alphabetical and/or dependency order. ======= router-id Router Identifiers are commonly used to identify a nodes in SB> s/a nodes/nodes/ ======= route-target-type This type defines the import and export rules of Route Targets, as descibed in Section 4.3.1 of [RFC4364]. An example usage can be SB> s/descibed/described/ found in [I-D.ietf-idr-bgp-model]. ======== SB> I am surprised that IP multicast addresses are here, but IP addresses are not. SB> I would have thought that both should be in the same place. ======== SB> In some protocols we use the NTP and the 1588 timer types, I assume SB> they are defined elsewhere. ======== mpls-label The 20 bits label values in an MPLS label stack entry, specified in [RFC3032]. This label value does not include the encodings of Traffic Class and TTL (time to live). The label range specified by this type covers the general use values and the special-purpose label values. An example usage can be found in [I-D.ietf-mpls-base-yang]. SB> I am surprised that you don't start with label and then define the SB> other label definitions in terms of existing definitions. SB> The obvious order being label, sp-label, gp-label, generalized ======== S/ "This identity represents IPv4 address family.";/"This identity represents the IPv4 address family."; ======== //The rest of the values deinfed in the IANA registry SB> s/deinfed/defined/ SB> However a question arises, the list stops at mt-v6 SB> Why do you stop at this point in the IANA list? SB> https://www.iana.org/assignments/address-family-numbers/address-family-numbers.xhtml SB> It cannot be because some of the later ones are less relevant, as some of the SB> included ones are rather rare. One the other hand there are some later ones that SB> seem modern and useful. SB> SB> Also why do you have types in this list that you do not later define in detail? =========== SB> You have generalized label in the list top, but not in SB> the YANG model itself. =========== From nobody Wed May 3 08:21:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10418129B8B; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:20:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3BJ3WfxebMlT; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8BFE129B3F; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:18:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6983; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1493824708; x=1495034308; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=otXmcu1OwOMIwBn9yUH0SJTT3te5WKZzq5rTwPs036Q=; b=hVUQ52iQJkmb/4suYNXdoIkkMJXtW4PqYjU84H7GL8cIeraWHrZO0KmE 4Crv5YLukgZl+PxgY7fnfe1WfvY+znX+OrULcfkb9sc1pP4xMcnt/6piC LzDB1L90wVmDSCiZYtg4ojaEnSOz9Dmm9COy0RGRRBixHkbv8eZ2q9PVY I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BTAQBn8wlZ/xbLJq1cGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBiSuKGHOQYXKUfIIPhiQChQEYAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFFQEBAQECASMVQAY?= =?us-ascii?q?LCxgCAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBRQYBDAgBAYoVCLEjghQSinIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBASGBC4VUgV6CZzSEKSSDHIJfAQSWW4cBik6IRoIChTmDQoZjlDQfOIEKLiA?= =?us-ascii?q?IGRWFNhyBZT6JFAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.38,284,1491264000"; d="scan'208";a="652612578" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 03 May 2017 15:18:25 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.33] ([10.147.24.33]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v43FIO5J022043; Wed, 3 May 2017 15:18:25 GMT Message-ID: <5909F4C0.2010306@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 17:18:24 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stig Venaas , rtg-dir@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir QA review: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 15:20:58 -0000 Hi Stig, please see inline: On 27/04/17 00:08 , Stig Venaas wrote: > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this > draft. This is just an early QA review. > > The draft is in good shape, but I did find some minor issues and nits. > It is fairly readable, but it could be improved in a few places. > > > Minor issues: > > In 3.1: > The SR-Algorithm TLV is some places called a Sub-TLV. It might be > good to be consistent. fixed. > > This is not clear in 3.1: > The SR-Algorithm Sub-TLV is optional. It MAY only be advertised once > in the Router Information Opaque LSA. > Is this trying to say that it MUST NOT be advertised more than > once? With the current wording this is not obviously that strict. yes, I changed the text to: "It MUST only be advertised once in the Router Information Opaque LSA". Hope that is clear enough. > > I see some text regarding multiple SR-Algorithm sub-TLVs, but it also > looks like one can have multiple algorithms in one sub-TLV. At least > from the diagram. yes, multiple algorithms in the same SR-Algorithm TLV is fine. > But I don't see any discussion about this. Is it OK > to add multiple? When can it be done, what does it mean? What if > routers don't support the exact same set of algorithms? router advertise all algorithms it supports. Each router may support different set. > > The term "lowest flooding scope" is used a couple of places. I think I > know what it means, but it might be good to point it out. Also, I'm > used to seeing the term "smallest" rather than "lowest". I'm assuming > they mean the same. I changed all places to "narrowest flooding scope". > > In 3.2 there is this bullet point: > The receiving router must adhere to the order in which the ranges > are advertised when calculating a SID/label from a SID index. > > You probably should use MUST here. fixed. > > Section 4: > In section 4 there is a range for advertising a range of prefixes. > But it looks like it contains a single prefix length and it says > the length is the length of the prefix. While it says range size > is the number of prefixes. I don't understand from the text what > really prefix length and range size means and how this should be > used. 10.0.1.0/24 - 10.0.100.0/24 represents a range of 100 /24 prefixes, where: (starting) prefix - 10.0.1.0 length of the prefix is 24 range size is 100 > > I understand this is IPv4 only since OSPFv2, but rather than just > saying IPv4 is 0, maybe refer to an IANA AF registry? This might > be helpful if you want to use the same sub-TLV in OSPFv3 and > use the same code for parsing etc. IANA has 1 for IPv4 though. this is equivalent to section 2.1 of RFC7684. I have updated the text to match RFC7684. > > Section 5: > Is it intentional that the flags start in position 1 rather than > 0? yes. Originally we had N-flag (Node Flag) defined at position 0, but we moved that to the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV (section 2.1 of RFC7684). Due to an existing implementations, we did not shift all other bits after that. > > I see that the NP flag should be ignored when M is set. Then I > see this text: > As the Mapping Server does not specify the originator of a prefix > advertisement, it is not possible to determine PHP behavior solely > based on the Mapping Server advertisement. However, PHP behavior may > safely be done in following cases: > This seems not very precise. Could you say exactly what the behavior > should be, rather than saying "behavior may be done"? would changing "may safely be done" to "SHOULD be done" be sufficient? > > Section 6: > It might be good to make clear that other flag positions are > reserved, set to 0 and ignored... Perhaps also point out that > weight is in the range 0-255 fixed both. > > I see this sentence: > If the SID/Label Sub-TLV appears in the SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV > more than once, instances other than the first will be ignored and > > Should it say MUST be ignored? changed to SHOULD as the previous text says "SHOULD only appear once". > > Section 6.2 it says: > All ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the SID/Label Sub-TLV. > All Backup ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the last ERO Sub-TLV. > > Should these be normative MUSTs? Changed both to MUST. I'm also going to clarify this with Hannes, whether that is still required, because I do not see equivalent text in ISIS draft. > > In 6.2.1: > It would be good for all of these to specify that other flags are > reserved. done. > > > Nits: > The intro should perhaps mention LAN adjacency and binding SIDs? LAN Adjacency SID is a sub-type of the Adjacency SID. I have added sentence about binding/other SID types. > > 2nd paragraph of section 2 is confusing. It sounds like > the Opaque LSAs in 7684 were defined for SID in particular, > but it is a generic mechanism. Perhaps SID was the > motivation though? this part is a left-over from the original draft before we split to RFC7684 and this draft. I replaced the whole paragraph with: "Extended Prefix/Link Opaque LSAs defined in are used for advertisements of the various SID types." > > Section 6.1: > It says: > The ERO Metric Sub-TLV advertises the cost of an ERO path. It is > used to compare the cost of a given source/destination path. A > router SHOULD advertise the ERO Metric Sub-TLV in an advertised ERO > TLV. > > Is the ERO TLV the ERO Sub-TLVs defined in 6.2? It would be good to > point that out. ERO Metric Sub-TLV as well as all the other ERO sub-TLVs in sectin 6.2 are at the same level - they are all sub-TLVs of the Binding TLV. I added some text to 6.2 to make that clear. > > In 8.4.2: > Broadcast, NBMA or or hybrid > Extra "or". fixed. > > Section 9: > There are no new registries and most of the TLVs are already > allocated? It seems there are a few new ones where it should > probably say TBD, or say something about being suggested values. > That was done in earlier sections. I see in some places it says > "are allocated" here, while it says "suggested" in the definition > of the TLV. section 9 lists all the updates to the four different registries. Values are explicitly mentioned in section 9 for every single code point. > > Section 10: > It says there are responses from 2 implementers, but I see 3. fixed > > Section 11: > Are these really all the potential security issues? I'm not aware of any others. Feel free to suggest more if required. > > I'm on vacation the next 2 weeks, so I may not reply to any > emails during that period. I will post the new version after closing on the ERO part with Hannes and others. thanks, Peter > > Regards, > Stig > . > From nobody Wed May 3 08:42:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0901129445 for ; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:42:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtbrick.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ef9Rm2BCJmNI for ; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x242.google.com (mail-wr0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FA3A129457 for ; Wed, 3 May 2017 08:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x242.google.com with SMTP id 6so23550874wrb.1 for ; Wed, 03 May 2017 08:40:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtbrick.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=u//VV3xQXQGagiCKrwSIZYomytDcJGIUJadCW90ES2k=; b=KIkWdVfgZ2w7hF/DJk+L+KGXO9GemyPgr6wzLK9FbZVvgUXBgLAjBaWkOia0hzVZId gkd234YXU9dDbBI5NumGhsu2BvCxBPaNtq4/3gNprwx3qGgwbGGyoy2A82cvnJ9/OUfK XOn+JYOEepiI81kptsmgOlKCb1ew9qVyCmAejY011ckDFMqtX/XbD2bLvEy5pOvfcohK MH+jwgxsDFEvi0yDVc5lFKwhc68z6vRUHkTbCuA0grldoupgmT68KV8lnH19+pClkYYi sH5RKhj7y0P8HatuuygfCwH+VJWmFuzNXbh8bY8Zfd8ay/Ibw8LM0Ehhm1H03j4x6FLA gI4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=u//VV3xQXQGagiCKrwSIZYomytDcJGIUJadCW90ES2k=; b=EAsi0cYvLzSBXjZUh9rCC4CvcSzR/XkHuEImbt9OsisafPOcUZKyXIHgr8763AtrOl v/AbZir1mkF04T7U9fgpe60fSrDmI6hJRoRBR1SkKUZoE9xVCDxWDpjFrOHZQJHU4OoH BpHK6ieOheI/3W3/fVuL2ZMTLAsZjyddC4Z+xwv28x/QS+DFbtiEpuXOR8RgFZX4cZV8 /O2J+1QB/RKCEYwTgUTFyRiNr9hS3hyvdTEQHNq1z7dRU5y5jxQjnYKLY2RU1IZ/7t7C afjFefWaH6iQTPExldHIOg5rS8bVpHUFEguHHC3UTWMTJ0wDGt3PhTnq3XElQ4kXa6gG yV0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5zwUKjvWOrIIZSTDKX/jB/hQV908QE8R3F4W4ol3+00e1lqaUR aTligS67oSqmI9K7 X-Received: by 10.223.173.23 with SMTP id p23mr27146251wrc.117.1493826022736; Wed, 03 May 2017 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.213.119] ([46.183.103.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f25sm25920016wrf.13.2017.05.03.08.40.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 May 2017 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Hannes Gredler X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14E277) In-Reply-To: <5909F4C0.2010306@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 17:40:13 +0200 Cc: Stig Venaas , rtg-dir@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7DFC8F58-1EDD-4239-9D8E-468EEF137FBE@rtbrick.com> References: <5909F4C0.2010306@cisco.com> To: Peter Psenak Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir QA review: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 15:42:39 -0000 not sure where the ordering requirements have come in. no need from my POV. feel free to drop it. /hannes > On 3 May 2017, at 17:18, Peter Psenak wrote: >=20 > Hi Stig, >=20 > please see inline: >=20 >> On 27/04/17 00:08 , Stig Venaas wrote: >> Hello, >>=20 >> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this >> draft. This is just an early QA review. >>=20 >> The draft is in good shape, but I did find some minor issues and nits. >> It is fairly readable, but it could be improved in a few places. >>=20 >>=20 >> Minor issues: >>=20 >> In 3.1: >> The SR-Algorithm TLV is some places called a Sub-TLV. It might be >> good to be consistent. >=20 > fixed. >=20 >>=20 >> This is not clear in 3.1: >> The SR-Algorithm Sub-TLV is optional. It MAY only be advertised once >> in the Router Information Opaque LSA. >> Is this trying to say that it MUST NOT be advertised more than >> once? With the current wording this is not obviously that strict. >=20 > yes, I changed the text to: "It MUST only be advertised once in the Router= Information Opaque LSA". Hope that is clear enough. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> I see some text regarding multiple SR-Algorithm sub-TLVs, but it also >> looks like one can have multiple algorithms in one sub-TLV. At least >> from the diagram. >=20 > yes, multiple algorithms in the same SR-Algorithm TLV is fine. >=20 >> But I don't see any discussion about this. Is it OK >> to add multiple? When can it be done, what does it mean? What if >> routers don't support the exact same set of algorithms? >=20 > router advertise all algorithms it supports. Each router may support diffe= rent set. >=20 >>=20 >> The term "lowest flooding scope" is used a couple of places. I think I >> know what it means, but it might be good to point it out. Also, I'm >> used to seeing the term "smallest" rather than "lowest". I'm assuming >> they mean the same. >=20 > I changed all places to "narrowest flooding scope". >=20 >>=20 >> In 3.2 there is this bullet point: >> The receiving router must adhere to the order in which the ranges >> are advertised when calculating a SID/label from a SID index. >>=20 >> You probably should use MUST here. >=20 > fixed. >=20 >>=20 >> Section 4: >> In section 4 there is a range for advertising a range of prefixes. >> But it looks like it contains a single prefix length and it says >> the length is the length of the prefix. While it says range size >> is the number of prefixes. I don't understand from the text what >> really prefix length and range size means and how this should be >> used. >=20 > 10.0.1.0/24 - 10.0.100.0/24 represents a range of 100 /24 prefixes, where:= >=20 > (starting) prefix - 10.0.1.0 > length of the prefix is 24 > range size is 100 >=20 >>=20 >> I understand this is IPv4 only since OSPFv2, but rather than just >> saying IPv4 is 0, maybe refer to an IANA AF registry? This might >> be helpful if you want to use the same sub-TLV in OSPFv3 and >> use the same code for parsing etc. IANA has 1 for IPv4 though. >=20 > this is equivalent to section 2.1 of RFC7684. I have updated the text to m= atch RFC7684. >=20 >>=20 >> Section 5: >> Is it intentional that the flags start in position 1 rather than >> 0? >=20 > yes. Originally we had N-flag (Node Flag) defined at position 0, but we mo= ved that to the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV (section 2.1 of RFC7684). Due to a= n existing implementations, we did not shift all other bits after that. >=20 >>=20 >> I see that the NP flag should be ignored when M is set. Then I >> see this text: >> As the Mapping Server does not specify the originator of a prefix >> advertisement, it is not possible to determine PHP behavior solely >> based on the Mapping Server advertisement. However, PHP behavior may >> safely be done in following cases: >> This seems not very precise. Could you say exactly what the behavior >> should be, rather than saying "behavior may be done"? >=20 > would changing "may safely be done" to "SHOULD be done" be sufficient? >=20 >>=20 >> Section 6: >> It might be good to make clear that other flag positions are >> reserved, set to 0 and ignored... Perhaps also point out that >> weight is in the range 0-255 >=20 > fixed both. >=20 >>=20 >> I see this sentence: >> If the SID/Label Sub-TLV appears in the SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV >> more than once, instances other than the first will be ignored and >>=20 >> Should it say MUST be ignored? >=20 > changed to SHOULD as the previous text says "SHOULD only appear once". >=20 >>=20 >> Section 6.2 it says: >> All ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the SID/Label Sub-TLV. >> All Backup ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the last ERO Sub-TLV. >>=20 >> Should these be normative MUSTs? >=20 > Changed both to MUST. > I'm also going to clarify this with Hannes, whether that is still required= , because I do not see equivalent text in ISIS draft. >=20 >>=20 >> In 6.2.1: >> It would be good for all of these to specify that other flags are >> reserved. >=20 > done. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Nits: >> The intro should perhaps mention LAN adjacency and binding SIDs? >=20 > LAN Adjacency SID is a sub-type of the Adjacency SID. I have added sentenc= e about binding/other SID types. >=20 >>=20 >> 2nd paragraph of section 2 is confusing. It sounds like >> the Opaque LSAs in 7684 were defined for SID in particular, >> but it is a generic mechanism. Perhaps SID was the >> motivation though? >=20 > this part is a left-over from the original draft before we split to RFC768= 4 and this draft. >=20 > I replaced the whole paragraph with: >=20 > "Extended Prefix/Link Opaque LSAs defined in ar= e used for advertisements of the various SID types." >=20 >>=20 >> Section 6.1: >> It says: >> The ERO Metric Sub-TLV advertises the cost of an ERO path. It is >> used to compare the cost of a given source/destination path. A >> router SHOULD advertise the ERO Metric Sub-TLV in an advertised ERO >> TLV. >>=20 >> Is the ERO TLV the ERO Sub-TLVs defined in 6.2? It would be good to >> point that out. >=20 > ERO Metric Sub-TLV as well as all the other ERO sub-TLVs in sectin 6.2 are= at the same level - they are all sub-TLVs of the Binding TLV. I added some t= ext to 6.2 to make that clear. >=20 >>=20 >> In 8.4.2: >> Broadcast, NBMA or or hybrid >> Extra "or". >=20 > fixed. >=20 >>=20 >> Section 9: >> There are no new registries and most of the TLVs are already >> allocated? It seems there are a few new ones where it should >> probably say TBD, or say something about being suggested values. >> That was done in earlier sections. I see in some places it says >> "are allocated" here, while it says "suggested" in the definition >> of the TLV. >=20 > section 9 lists all the updates to the four different registries. Values a= re explicitly mentioned in section 9 for every single code point. >=20 >>=20 >> Section 10: >> It says there are responses from 2 implementers, but I see 3. >=20 > fixed >=20 >>=20 >> Section 11: >> Are these really all the potential security issues? >=20 > I'm not aware of any others. Feel free to suggest more if required. >=20 >>=20 >> I'm on vacation the next 2 weeks, so I may not reply to any >> emails during that period. >=20 > I will post the new version after closing on the ERO part with Hannes and o= thers. >=20 > thanks, > Peter >=20 >>=20 >> Regards, >> Stig >> . >>=20 >=20 From nobody Wed May 3 10:48:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF85129AEB; Wed, 3 May 2017 10:48:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early partial review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 17:48:41 -0000 SGkgU3Rld2FydCwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciByZXZpZXcuIFdlIG5lZWQgdG8gcHVibGlzaCBhIG5l dyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYXMgd2UNCmhhdmUgc2lnbmlmaWNhdGlvbiBjaGFuZ2Vz IGluIG91ciBHaXRIdWIgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KT24gNS8zLzE3LCAxMDo1NCBBTSwgIlN0ZXdh cnQgQnJ5YW50IiA8c3Rld2FydEBnM3lzeC5vcmcudWs+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+UmV2aWV3IGlzIHBh cnRpYWxseSBkb25lLiBBbm90aGVyIHJldmlldyByZXF1ZXN0IGhhcyBiZWVuIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQN Cj5mb3IgY29tcGxldGluZyBpdC4NCj4NCj5SZXZpZXdlcjogU3Rld2FydCBCcnlhbnQNCj5SZXZp ZXcgcmVzdWx0OiBIYXMgSXNzdWVzDQo+DQo+Rmlyc3RseSBJIHNob3VsZCBzYXkgdGhhdCBJIGFt IG5vdCBhbiBleHBlcnQgaW4gWUFORywgaGVuY2UgbXkNCj5zdWdnZXN0aW9uIHRoYXQgeW91IG1h 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for your review! On 4/27/2017 9:03 AM, Jonathan Hardwick wrote: > > I also spotted a few nits that should be fixed at some point before > publication. > I have fixed the nits. > Comments and Questions > > 1) In section 2.1 it says: > > “ If the Multiple Labels Capability for a given AFI/SAFI had been > > exchanged on the failed session, but is not exchanged on the > > restarted session, then any prefixes advertised in that AFI/SAFI with > > multiple labels MUST be explicitly withdrawn.” > > If I have understood this correctly, it requires a speaker to withdraw > NLRI that it sent on the previous session but that it has not sent on > the restarted session (because the negotiated session capabilities > changed). > > (a) Why does it need to do that – isn’t the NLRI implicitly withdrawn > when the EOR marker is sent? > The theory here is that the label stack in the stale routes is known to be invalid, so you really don't want your peer to hold on to them until EOR is received. > (b) This seems to contradict section 2.4 which says “Note that > label/prefix bindings that were not advertised on the given session > cannot be withdrawn by this method.” > I added the following text to section 2.4 right after the quoted sentence: (However, if the bindings were advertised on a previous session with the same peer, and the current session is the result of a "graceful restart" ([RFC4724]) of the previous session, then this withdrawal method may be used.) > > 2) In section 2.1 it says: > > “A BGP speaker SHOULD NOT send an UPDATE that binds more labels to a > given prefix than its peer is capable of receiving” – why isn’t that > MUST NOT? > Section 2.1 also requires the receiving speaker to apply "treat-as-withdraw" to such updates, which does imply that the sending speaker must not send them. So I've changed "SHOULD NOT" to "MUST NOT". > 3) In section 2.4 it says: > > “To do so, it may send a BGP UPDATE message with an MP_UNREACH_NLRI > attribute.” > > Should that be “it MUST send”? > I think the non-normative (non-RFC2119) language is fine here. > 4) In section 5: although some implementations treat SAFI 1 and SAFI 4 > routes as comparable, I believe that they should always be treated as > independent, in the following sense: > > Suppose a speaker S1 sends a SAFI 1 route and then a SAFI 4 route to > the same prefix P. The SAFI 4 route MUST NOT be treated by the > receiving speaker as an implicit withdraw of the SAFI 1 route. If S1 > subsequently sends an explicit withdraw of the SAFI 4 route, this MUST > NOT implicitly withdraw the SAFI 1 route, and vice versa. > > Am I correct? I have seen implementations that violate this so I > think it is worth spelling out somewhere in this section. > From Section 1: This document also addresses the issue of the how UPDATEs that bind labels to a given prefix interact with UPDATEs that advertise paths to that prefix but do not bind labels to it. However, for backwards compatibility, it declares most of these interactions to be matters of local policy. Different deployed implementations have different behavior, and I think it is better to advance the document as is rather than derail it with the inevitable food fight that would occur if we wanted to try to get the IETF to say which implementation is better than which other implementation. The deployed implementations have been around for many years, and people seem to have adapted to the differences. > 5) In section 7 it says: > > “ If a BGP implementation, not conformant with the current document, > > encodes multiple labels in the NLRI but has not sent and received the > > "Multiple Labels" Capability, a BGP implementation that does conform > > with the current document will likely reset the BGP session.” > > Wouldn’t that prevent incremental deployment of this RFC into a > network that is initially composed of such implementations? Because > it seems to require that both ends of each BGP session must be > upgraded simultaneously, or else the BGP sessions will all reset. > This issue was discussed at great length when the draft was first submitted. The vast majority of deployments do not check the S bit. That is, the de facto standard is to assume that a received update has only one label. If any existing deployment were transmitting updates with multiple labels encoded into the NLRI, it would already be causing BGP session resets. (Even iff this were a real problem, it wouldn't require both ends of a session to be upgraded simultaneously. It would just require one end to have a knob allowing it to accept both old and new behavior from its peer, and a knob telling it whether to use old or new behavior when sending to its peer. But since the defacto standard doesn't use multiple labels, I don't think we have to worry much about this.) --------------B904B5417489A850A8D161CD Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Thanks for your review!


On 4/27/2017 9:03 AM, Jonathan Hardwick wrote:

I also spotted a few nits that should be fixed at some point before publication.


I have fixed the nits.

 

Comments and Questions

 

1) In section 2.1 it says:

“   If the Multiple Labels Capability for a given AFI/SAFI had been

   exchanged on the failed session, but is not exchanged on the

   restarted session, then any prefixes advertised in that AFI/SAFI with

   multiple labels MUST be explicitly withdrawn.”

 

If I have understood this correctly, it requires a speaker to withdraw NLRI that it sent on the previous session but that it has not sent on the restarted session (because the negotiated session capabilities changed).

(a) Why does it need to do that – isn’t the NLRI implicitly withdrawn when the EOR marker is sent?


The theory here is that the label stack in the stale routes is known to be invalid, so you really don't want your peer to hold on to them until EOR is received.

(b) This seems to contradict section 2.4 which says “Note that label/prefix bindings that were not advertised on the given session cannot be withdrawn by this method.”


I added the following text to section 2.4 right after the quoted sentence:
 (However, if the bindings were advertised on a previous session with the same peer, and the current session is the result of a "graceful restart" ([RFC4724]) of the previous session, then this withdrawal method may be used.)


2) In section 2.1 it says:

“A BGP speaker SHOULD NOT send an UPDATE that binds more labels to a given prefix than its peer is capable of receiving” – why isn’t that MUST NOT?


Section 2.1 also requires the receiving speaker to apply "treat-as-withdraw" to such updates, which does imply that the sending speaker must not send them.  So I've changed "SHOULD NOT" to "MUST NOT". 

 

3) In section 2.4 it says:

“To do so, it may send a BGP UPDATE message with an MP_UNREACH_NLRI attribute.”

Should that be “it MUST send”?


I think the non-normative (non-RFC2119) language is fine here. 

 

 

4) In section 5: although some implementations treat SAFI 1 and SAFI 4 routes as comparable, I believe that they should always be treated as independent, in the following sense:

Suppose a speaker S1 sends a SAFI 1 route and then a SAFI 4 route to the same prefix P.  The SAFI 4 route MUST NOT be treated by the receiving speaker as an implicit withdraw of the SAFI 1 route.  If S1 subsequently sends an explicit withdraw of the SAFI 4 route, this MUST NOT implicitly withdraw the SAFI 1 route, and vice versa.

Am I correct?  I have seen implementations that violate this so I think it is worth spelling out somewhere in this section.


From Section 1:
This document also addresses the issue of the how UPDATEs that bind labels to a given prefix interact with UPDATEs that advertise paths to that prefix but do not bind labels to it.  However, for backwards compatibility, it declares most of these interactions to be matters of local policy.
Different deployed implementations have different behavior, and I think it is better to advance the document as is rather than derail it with the inevitable food fight that would occur if we wanted to try to get the IETF to say which implementation is better than which other implementation.  The deployed implementations have been around for many years, and people seem to have adapted to the differences.

 

 

5) In section 7 it says:

“ If a BGP implementation, not conformant with the current document,

encodes multiple labels in the NLRI but has not sent and received the

"Multiple Labels" Capability, a BGP implementation that does conform

with the current document will likely reset the BGP session.”

 

Wouldn’t that prevent incremental deployment of this RFC into a network that is initially composed of such implementations?  Because it seems to require that both ends of each BGP session must be upgraded simultaneously, or else the BGP sessions will all reset.

 


This issue was discussed at great length when the draft was first submitted.  The vast majority of deployments do not check the S bit.  That is, the de facto standard is to assume that a received update has only one label.   If any existing deployment were transmitting updates with multiple labels encoded into the NLRI, it would already be causing BGP session resets.

(Even iff this were a real problem, it wouldn't require both ends of a session to be upgraded simultaneously.  It would just require one end to have a knob allowing it to accept both old and new behavior from its peer, and a knob telling it whether to use old or new behavior when sending to its peer.  But since the defacto standard doesn't use multiple labels, I don't think we have to worry much about this.)

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AQHSvStM4BHVWrHbK0qj4IblMxrb7aHaf4gAgAla8rA= Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 07:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <25760_1493884225_590ADD41_25760_636_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921DD753DA@OPEXCNORMAC.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <52f7d439-e0b3-e7c5-e0ab-c00569dad1a5@labn.net> <6F302925-DB12-451F-8738-40A2E891E404@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6F302925-DB12-451F-8738-40A2E891E404@cisco.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 07:50:31 -0000 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E=Sophos;i="5.38,287,1491264000"; d="scan'208";a="651608283" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 04 May 2017 10:02:19 +0000 Received: from [10.147.24.33] ([10.147.24.33]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v44A2Jx6015953; Thu, 4 May 2017 10:02:19 GMT Message-ID: <590AFC2B.9050707@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 12:02:19 +0200 From: Peter Psenak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stig Venaas , rtg-dir@ietf.org, ospf@ietf.org, ospf-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions.all@ietf.org References: <5909F4C0.2010306@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5909F4C0.2010306@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir QA review: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 10:02:26 -0000 Hi Stig, a new version that includes your comments has been published. https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-13.txt thanks, Peter On 03/05/17 17:18 , Peter Psenak wrote: > Hi Stig, > > please see inline: > > On 27/04/17 00:08 , Stig Venaas wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this >> draft. This is just an early QA review. >> >> The draft is in good shape, but I did find some minor issues and nits. >> It is fairly readable, but it could be improved in a few places. >> >> >> Minor issues: >> >> In 3.1: >> The SR-Algorithm TLV is some places called a Sub-TLV. It might be >> good to be consistent. > > fixed. > >> >> This is not clear in 3.1: >> The SR-Algorithm Sub-TLV is optional. It MAY only be advertised once >> in the Router Information Opaque LSA. >> Is this trying to say that it MUST NOT be advertised more than >> once? With the current wording this is not obviously that strict. > > yes, I changed the text to: "It MUST only be advertised once in the > Router Information Opaque LSA". Hope that is clear enough. > > >> >> I see some text regarding multiple SR-Algorithm sub-TLVs, but it also >> looks like one can have multiple algorithms in one sub-TLV. At least >> from the diagram. > > yes, multiple algorithms in the same SR-Algorithm TLV is fine. > >> But I don't see any discussion about this. Is it OK >> to add multiple? When can it be done, what does it mean? What if >> routers don't support the exact same set of algorithms? > > router advertise all algorithms it supports. Each router may support > different set. > >> >> The term "lowest flooding scope" is used a couple of places. I think I >> know what it means, but it might be good to point it out. Also, I'm >> used to seeing the term "smallest" rather than "lowest". I'm assuming >> they mean the same. > > I changed all places to "narrowest flooding scope". > >> >> In 3.2 there is this bullet point: >> The receiving router must adhere to the order in which the ranges >> are advertised when calculating a SID/label from a SID index. >> >> You probably should use MUST here. > > fixed. > >> >> Section 4: >> In section 4 there is a range for advertising a range of prefixes. >> But it looks like it contains a single prefix length and it says >> the length is the length of the prefix. While it says range size >> is the number of prefixes. I don't understand from the text what >> really prefix length and range size means and how this should be >> used. > > 10.0.1.0/24 - 10.0.100.0/24 represents a range of 100 /24 prefixes, where: > > (starting) prefix - 10.0.1.0 > length of the prefix is 24 > range size is 100 > >> >> I understand this is IPv4 only since OSPFv2, but rather than just >> saying IPv4 is 0, maybe refer to an IANA AF registry? This might >> be helpful if you want to use the same sub-TLV in OSPFv3 and >> use the same code for parsing etc. IANA has 1 for IPv4 though. > > this is equivalent to section 2.1 of RFC7684. I have updated the text to > match RFC7684. > >> >> Section 5: >> Is it intentional that the flags start in position 1 rather than >> 0? > > yes. Originally we had N-flag (Node Flag) defined at position 0, but we > moved that to the OSPFv2 Extended Prefix TLV (section 2.1 of RFC7684). > Due to an existing implementations, we did not shift all other bits > after that. > >> >> I see that the NP flag should be ignored when M is set. Then I >> see this text: >> As the Mapping Server does not specify the originator of a prefix >> advertisement, it is not possible to determine PHP behavior solely >> based on the Mapping Server advertisement. However, PHP behavior may >> safely be done in following cases: >> This seems not very precise. Could you say exactly what the behavior >> should be, rather than saying "behavior may be done"? > > would changing "may safely be done" to "SHOULD be done" be sufficient? > >> >> Section 6: >> It might be good to make clear that other flag positions are >> reserved, set to 0 and ignored... Perhaps also point out that >> weight is in the range 0-255 > > fixed both. > >> >> I see this sentence: >> If the SID/Label Sub-TLV appears in the SID/Label Binding Sub-TLV >> more than once, instances other than the first will be ignored and >> >> Should it say MUST be ignored? > > changed to SHOULD as the previous text says "SHOULD only appear once". > >> >> Section 6.2 it says: >> All ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the SID/Label Sub-TLV. >> All Backup ERO Sub-TLVs must immediately follow the last ERO Sub-TLV. >> >> Should these be normative MUSTs? > > Changed both to MUST. > I'm also going to clarify this with Hannes, whether that is still > required, because I do not see equivalent text in ISIS draft. > >> >> In 6.2.1: >> It would be good for all of these to specify that other flags are >> reserved. > > done. > > >> >> >> Nits: >> The intro should perhaps mention LAN adjacency and binding SIDs? > > LAN Adjacency SID is a sub-type of the Adjacency SID. I have added > sentence about binding/other SID types. > >> >> 2nd paragraph of section 2 is confusing. It sounds like >> the Opaque LSAs in 7684 were defined for SID in particular, >> but it is a generic mechanism. Perhaps SID was the >> motivation though? > > this part is a left-over from the original draft before we split to > RFC7684 and this draft. > > I replaced the whole paragraph with: > > "Extended Prefix/Link Opaque LSAs defined in > are used for advertisements of the various SID types." > >> >> Section 6.1: >> It says: >> The ERO Metric Sub-TLV advertises the cost of an ERO path. It is >> used to compare the cost of a given source/destination path. A >> router SHOULD advertise the ERO Metric Sub-TLV in an advertised ERO >> TLV. >> >> Is the ERO TLV the ERO Sub-TLVs defined in 6.2? It would be good to >> point that out. > > ERO Metric Sub-TLV as well as all the other ERO sub-TLVs in sectin 6.2 > are at the same level - they are all sub-TLVs of the Binding TLV. I > added some text to 6.2 to make that clear. > >> >> In 8.4.2: >> Broadcast, NBMA or or hybrid >> Extra "or". > > fixed. > >> >> Section 9: >> There are no new registries and most of the TLVs are already >> allocated? It seems there are a few new ones where it should >> probably say TBD, or say something about being suggested values. >> That was done in earlier sections. I see in some places it says >> "are allocated" here, while it says "suggested" in the definition >> of the TLV. > > section 9 lists all the updates to the four different registries. Values > are explicitly mentioned in section 9 for every single code point. > >> >> Section 10: >> It says there are responses from 2 implementers, but I see 3. > > fixed > >> >> Section 11: >> Are these really all the potential security issues? > > I'm not aware of any others. Feel free to suggest more if required. > >> >> I'm on vacation the next 2 weeks, so I may not reply to any >> emails during that period. > > I will post the new version after closing on the ERO part with Hannes > and others. > > thanks, > Peter > >> >> Regards, >> Stig >> . >> > From nobody Thu May 4 05:59:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5A41294E0; Thu, 4 May 2017 05:59:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: 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smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t124sm1165589wma.10.2017.05.05.01.31.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 May 2017 01:31:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <7CFCE1D1-CBBA-4B1A-AC4D-587D1ED8464B@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6E34E0DB-172F-4225-8403-B5869E2075C8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 11:31:08 +0300 In-Reply-To: <149283456181.25913.15133934620501134310@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , rtg-dir@ietf.org, IPv6 List , IETF , draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis.all@ietf.org To: Ines Robles References: <149283456181.25913.15133934620501134310@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-06 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 08:31:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6E34E0DB-172F-4225-8403-B5869E2075C8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ines, Thanks for the review. Comments below. Bob > On Apr 22, 2017, at 7:16 AM, Ines Robles = wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Ines Robles > Review result: Has Nits >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-06.txt >=20 > Reviewer: Ines Robles >=20 > Review Date: April 21, 2017 >=20 > Intended status: Standards Track >=20 >=20 > Summary: >=20 > This document describes Path MTU Discovery for IP version 6 >=20 > I believe the draft is technically good. I have no =E2=80=9CMajor=E2=80=9D= issues > with this I-D. I have some minor comments. >=20 Good, thanks. >=20 > Comments: >=20 > 1- I think that it would be nice to add a graphical example that > describes the process of the Path MTU Discovery (including a Packet > Too Big Message). e.g. Figure 1 of RFC 5927[1]. I will consider it, but sure what it would look like. Suggestions? >=20 > 2- Section 1: >=20 > 2.1- I would add a reference when you mention black hole = connection. > What about section 2.1 of [2] or [3]? >=20 I will add RFC2923. The other is an expired draft that I don=E2=80=99t = think it appropriate to reference. > 3- Section 2: >=20 > 3.1- EMTU_S =3D> When it is defined, it references RFC6691. But = this > term is not mentioned in RFC6691. I would add additionally a reference > to RFC 1122 [4] which defines EMTU_S. >=20 OK > 3.2- I would add also the same references for EMTU_R. OK >=20 > 4.Section 3: >=20 > 4.1- In the first paragraph, I would add a reference to ICMPv6 = the > first time that ICMPv6 Packet Too Big message is mentioned. And I > would add here also "(ICMPv6 PTB)" since it used further in the > document. There is a reference to ICMPv6 the first time it shows up in Section 1. = I don=E2=80=99t think another is needed for ICMPv6 PTB. >=20 > 4.2- In the first paragraph: "...to send smaller fragments or = ..." > --> I think it would be clearer "to send smaller packets or=E2=80=A6" I agree, =E2=80=9Cpackets=E2=80=9D is better here. It=E2=80=99s = consistent with the definition in Section 2. >=20 > 4.3- Second Paragraph: "...process ends when the node's = estimate..." > -> "...process ends when the source node's estimate=E2=80=A6"? OK >=20 > 4.4- Last Paragraph: "can to appear" -> "can appear" . "...but = is in > fact..." -> "...but it is in fact=E2=80=A6" OK >=20 > 5. Section 4: >=20 > 4.1- about this: "The node MUST reduce the size of the packets = it is > sending along the path". I would add an explanation to which size the > packet should be reduced (maybe based in an initial example) This is described in the previous paragraph. >=20 >=20 > 6.Section 5: >=20 > 6.1- I would add a reference to RFC 1122 [4] when MMS_S is = mentioned. OK >=20 >=20 > 6.2- Section 5.5: "Some transport protocols are not allowed to > repacketize when doing a retransmission..." I would add some > examples. I will look into that. >=20 > 7. Section 6: >=20 > 7.1- What about to mention Blind Performance-Degrading Attack = [5]? This is protected against by not allow the MTU to be set below 1280 and = changes in rfc2460bis fragmentation. >=20 >=20 >>=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5927#section-7.3 > [2] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2923 > [3] = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jacquin-opsawg-icmp-blackhole-problem-00= > [4] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#page-58 > [5] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5927#section-7 --Apple-Mail=_6E34E0DB-172F-4225-8403-B5869E2075C8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZDDhMAAoJEK7rdBF357uotFEH/iBvAO+rLMUDG2lue9f3YbcK eAIte8Hc7uQJaUlkvJtAP5AAIeyOKeEW/h4CiaGyUKGKGEHRM1MLL0HJUIM/lUkX hPCnM0w/FfeMr40CLly7EQvYXf0W8ScyadcEddN5ItyLKAOz6uBBk3q233NhDrtq wHLaXABYkbT9N+2OVWcB0Ob7R1S7colsaoXqBlmW/cDdxfwRHhQyXzdTMUV1Ys9a iYeiM7ArDR5UWH01oPFH1g8XRpnY9FqtpHbCKPZ/YBOdE44hxLdUwLwK3bfA8C/t WsKQjDfMUDi3B2xB/AJEa3rpL+01SHcZWJdQ69JWnPl9bGyFr+KEoL4sJ2YdpoQ= =5dpn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_6E34E0DB-172F-4225-8403-B5869E2075C8-- From nobody Fri May 5 13:49:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C52128854; 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spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CY1PR05MB2521D35D61C3765946AD9A2EABEE0CY1PR05MB2521namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 May 2017 06:11:47.2906 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR05MB2523 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Review of draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 06:11:51 -0000 --_000_CY1PR05MB2521D35D61C3765946AD9A2EABEE0CY1PR05MB2521namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I had been designated as the RTG-DIR reviewer for this draft. I've reviewed the same. This draft does a decent job of defining the logical-network-element module= . Some minor comments that should be addressed: a. Section 1.1: refers to expired drafts. b. Some TBDs need to be populated: i. Security consideration= s section ii. An error-code in sectio= n 6 Regards Ravi --_000_CY1PR05MB2521D35D61C3765946AD9A2EABEE0CY1PR05MB2521namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi

I had been designated as the RTG-DIR reviewer for this draft.<= /o:p>

I’ve reviewed the same.

 

This draft does a decent job of defining the logical-network-elemen= t module.

 

Some minor comments that should be addressed:

a.  =      Section 1.1: ref= ers to expired drafts.

b.  =     Some TBDs need t= o be populated:

  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;           i.  = ;          Security considerations section

  &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;         ii. &nbs= p;          An error-code in section 6

 

Regards

Ravi

 

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While I don't want to get into a lot of details about the implementation differences, I do think it is fair to ask that section 5 point out more clearly that there can be interoperability problems, and that it might not be possible to achieve a desired set of local policies with some implementations or some combinations of implementation. See below for the proposed new contents of Section 5. Eric ---------------------- 5. Relationship Between SAFI-4 and SAFI-1 Routes It is possible that a BGP speaker will receive both a SAFI-1 route for prefix P and a SAFI-4 route for prefix P. Different implementations treat this situation in different ways. For example, some implementations may regard SAFI-1 routes and SAFI-4 routes as completely independent, and may treat them in a "ships in the night" fashion. In this case, bestpath selection for the two SAFIs is independent, and there will be a best SAFI-1 route to P as well as a best SAFI-4 route to P. Which packets get forwarded according to the routes of which SAFI is then a matter of local policy. Other implementations may treat the SAFI-1 and SAFI-4 routes for a given prefix as comparable, such that the best route to prefix P is either a SAFI-1 route or a SAFI-4 route, but not both. In such implementations, if load-balancing is done among a set of equal cost routes, some of the equal cost routes may be SAFI-1 routes and some may be SAFI-4 routes. Whether this is allowed is again a matter of local policy. Some implementations may allow a single BGP session to carry UPDATES of both SAFI-1 and SAFI-4; other implementations may disallow this. Some implementations that allow both SAFIs on the same session may treat the receipt of a SAFI-1 route for prefix P on a given session as an implicit withdrawal of a previous SAFI-4 route for prefix P on that session, and vice versa. Other implementations may have different behavior. A BGP speaker may receive a SAFI-4 route over a given BGP session, but may have other BGP sessions for which SAFI-4 is not enabled. In this case, the BGP speaker MAY convert the SAFI-4 route to a SAFI-1 route and then propagate the result over the session on which SAFI-4 is not enabled. Whether this is done is a matter of local policy. These differences in the behavior of different implementations may result in unexpected behavior or lack of interoperability. In some cases, it may be difficult or impossible to achieve the desired policies with certain implementations or combinations of implementations. From nobody Wed May 10 18:15:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560ED129508; Wed, 10 May 2017 18:15:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Min Ye To: Cc: draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, pals@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149446531632.16715.2861233468294466753@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 18:15:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 01:15:16 -0000 Reviewer: Patrice Brissette Review result: Has Issues [Resending to RTG-DIR] Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw-02.txt Reviewer: Patrice Brissette Review Date: May 10, 2017 IETF LC End Date: May 12, 2017 Intended Status: Standard Track Summary: • I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: • Please supply an overview of the draft quality and readability. • Include anything else that you think will be helpful toward understanding your review. Major Issues: • "No major issues found." Minor Issues: • Technically, I think the draft is completed. However, it doesn’t flow very well. Information is all over. I suggest the authors to review the layout/flow of the document. Here are my “detailed” comments: Abstract — What is the plus value on that draft? No clear Many Long sentences in the text. very hard to understand and follow. Syntax to be improved. Introduction Typo : “A reference model or a P2MP PW is depicted in Figure 1 below” “In this document, we specify a method of signaling P2MP PW using LDP.” —> suggest to move it from intro to abstract Also, make sure the 3rd person is used. Try to a void “we” usage May I suggest to have a requirement section. Requirements are all over the document. “ In case of mLDP, a Leaf-PE can decide to join the P2MP LSP at any time; whereas in the case of RSVP-TE, the P2MP LSP is set up by the R-PE, generally at the initial service provisioning time. It should be noted that local policy can override any decision to join, add or prune existing or new L-PE(s) from the tree. In any case, the PW setup can ignore these differences, and simply assume that the P2MP PSN LSP is available when needed “ Quite complex to follow. Missing to “why” / explanation. “The LDP liberal label retention mode is used“ Another requirement… is that a MAY, SHOULD, MUST? “In this case, a PW status message with status code of 0x00000008 (Local PSN-facing PW (ingress) Receive Fault) MUST also be sent to the R-PE“ How? The L-PE fails to join the P2MP PSN LSP. Section 2.2 “ Note that since the LDP label mapping message is only sent by the R- PE to all the L-PEs, it is not possible to negotiate any interface parameters.“ Why is that note there? Is that already been mentioned previously. Fig.4 must be moved to proper in the text OR create 2 subsection in 2.2 “As such, PW status negotiation procedure described in [RFC4447bis] is not applicable to P2MP PW. A node MUST NOT claim to be P2MP PW capable by sending a LDP P2MP PW Capability TLV if it is not also capable of handling PW status“ Should a node send LDP P2MP PW Capability TLV or not? Not well explain There is some reference to LSR in the text where the major part use the wording “node”. Nits: N/A Regards, Patrice Brissette From nobody Wed May 10 18:31:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359A212EAC3 for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 18:31:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O4y8h1ZIXbzH for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 18:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092065062.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.65.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C556129C62 for ; Wed, 10 May 2017 18:31:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=N3OpwgXPsoL5iLDg1VdMLWnojDkOj8Dlq7axvuyFVFk=; b=pOou0vXY5P/P5D6h7I+JEB3fwLtImW+1Fe3FrHnlTDpY7P6nX3OSBGJCTsRIRNIU79gJa25EJsUKvPTLUxRhUl2vr7rB51v9bGwO8gvPA73uGTEjw21RifimCvUBVdFyi5++zVKCJNDf9HYr4OYvM0CaEl2HxomHW2CQUqlqXZZAVj4sb603ynMzy8Ivwbxnoy5nKIW1U4dHuCw2v6VC6k8UVGmpUJqMelKaZv2hgSagbAZvuwC1n3A943HplGXRxGD4EtkDhTqLfNs/X+cOuR6svzgRRQ4sYuLnByDUzQE0osUxz5IvlnORJBHGuPE/+i/R2WoV5tbNXH6eivaKMw== Received: from VE1EUR01FT051.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.2.51) by VE1EUR01HT035.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.3.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1047.9; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:30:59 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.2.55) by VE1EUR01FT051.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.3.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1047.9 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:30:59 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::51f3:22a3:bd6c:a08]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::51f3:22a3:bd6c:a08%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1075.020; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:30:59 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: rtg-dir Thread-Topic: KHALED Routing Protocol (KRP). 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X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 01:31:03 -0000 SGkgU2lyL01hJ2FtLAoKSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIGFzayBmb3IgY29uc2lkZXJpbmcgS1JQIElE IHRvIGJlIGFkZGVkIHRvIHRoZSBSb3V0aW5nIEFyZWEgYW5kIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIG9mZmljaWFs IGRlY2lzaW9ucyByZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4KCmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aHRtbC9kcmFmdC1vbWFyLWtycC0wMQoKVGhhbmtzIGluIGFkdmFuY2UsCgpLaGFsZWQgT21hcg== From nobody Thu May 11 01:14:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA810127BA3; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:14:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b16tgciFlcA3; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54B8F120454; Thu, 11 May 2017 01:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F283618013D1; Thu, 11 May 2017 10:14:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Loa Andersson To: "" Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <1ea04d3a-2446-dcaa-e5b6-21797a3caa57@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:14:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 08:14:13 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt Reviewer: Loa Andersson Review Date: 2017-05-11 IETF LC End Date: 2015-05-11 (?) Intended Status: Experimental Summary: This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be considered prior to publication. Comments: The draft is well written and readable also for someone that does not read manet-draft that often. Major Issues: "No major issues found. Minor Issues: "No minor issues found." Nits: I've looked at the the GenArt review by Peter Yee and the Intdir review by Zhen Cao and largely agree with their comments. In addition: The nits tool picks on something that looks like references on line 469 ( [1] and [2] ) but is not. Don't think you'll need to fix that, the RFC Editor will fix if necessary. I'd like to have the Abstract fleshed out a bit, some more context given. If you are new to the area and the draft it is very hard to find the expected useful info in the abstract. You use "TC message" already in section 4, but TC (Traffic Control) is not expanded until section 6, should be done the first time it is used. The abbreviation "SR" is used (often as part of parameter names), but never really expanded, though one can find the expansion kind of explained at some places. Could be made clearer. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Thu May 11 06:34:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFC312EE46; Thu, 11 May 2017 06:34:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mm.st header.b=cAtkwAPl; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=pXlASUJz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNJs26b918RQ; Thu, 11 May 2017 06:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2B0912EBFE; Thu, 11 May 2017 06:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EF120AC3; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 11 May 2017 09:31:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mm.st; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=h4AjGDF5FSlDtB/R7CAKaA1O2uzgpcSiPcVTP1B8OYc=; b=cAtkwAPl EfnVpW8NItd2xJCq70Cy9X6fT+zQOlFhJCA8OOEGvV3mFeWYqpGVb9zzjm2AytIY 6f+YPDcsAkpNQAkGyq0f5jMjiOYrrnDKe+UhAWT7MmvHFFU9pGSp0XfZb/RYY2OQ JGJTmzvx8aiCf+ybsYAXl2o01waKRz0y/XyhL3lsbVIpjwI3XWFJcFfrOh8trSSW cJcI08iBTzA2ZM2wlDIUEFl6o6AFs1pqTCUJ2Qno367CszQVFNVCZQO7hniG/VPL fj1I4OCaJX9VmbhT0RKIRI5MkLARk1TRTiIzDijQs/MCAWxiXwp5zb6r3Rj3crkH DO+KqhkvzTx4tg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=h4AjGDF5FSlDtB/R7CAKaA1O2uzgp cSiPcVTP1B8OYc=; b=pXlASUJzDSpR2/CUjEBQErJusC+nj1xk6IaVMe+l+9u8a GDMj1Igy9eLNoOEG3GkItL50di0c1B5CzfMUPgeqIw8c6ePMP6BM8pQI7iogsS7Y khpO8syX/kTJbZ0/e7pXrVcpITzZ2mqPvQdF95E2DfbqSlKur/gLQs6mRl9SexvT AZO6huclnPfOcnPfM5/o0z/Y1u1XRjkO+qe8vHWTo778DMvUukKZyp1BzDDcxRuN 6wJpLbQ7ZqPc6hziZGR0+KGm+yrH29SEdZ92RscUYlLyZJH1WSTc0K5FhmamTAO3 lkpFw80r3TH5hgfDPULlo+WAe6AGM4h7ho7O+7V5w== X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 039BC9E259; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Dan Frost To: rtg-ads@ietf.org Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-pce-pceps.all@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-6cc55fe1 Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:31:04 +0100 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:34:03 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 Reviewer: Dan Frost Review Date: 2017-05-11 IETF LC End Date: Intended Status: Standards Track Summary: I have significant concerns about this document and recommend that the Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors. Comments: This document proposes to add a STARTTLS mechanism to the PCE protocol. If this basic approach is accepted, then the document is in good shape. It's clear, complete, and straightforward. The question is whether mandating STARTTLS is actually a good idea. Major Issues: My main concern with this document is that it takes as given that STARTTLS is the right way to secure PCEP with TLS. Perhaps this argument was already had at some point and this draft is the result, but if so then at a bare minimum it needs rationale explaining why STARTTLS was chosen over alternatives, and text that addresses weaknesses and mitigations associated with STARTTLS processing, in particular the possibility and relative ease of downgrade attacks. The obvious alternative would be to not use STARTTLS and simply allocate another TCP port for PCEP-over-TLS. This avoids complicating the PCE protocol and introducing the potential for downgrade attacks based on STARTTLS. PCE is used to convey critical path-determination information in carrier networks, among other things. That it's not fully authenticated and encrypted in all cases already is an unfortunate legacy of a bygone era. Ideally operators should move as quickly as possible to secure PCEP and aim to entirely remove the unsecure form. STARTTLS serves a weaker goal of "opportunistic" security, which, while it has its uses, makes little sense for PCE compared to simply deprecating the unsecured version. Minor Issues: * Section 3.3: "A RECOMMENDED value for StartTLSWait timer is 60 seconds." This seems like a very long time to wait for an initial reply on an already-established TCP connection. * Section 3.2, fifth paragraph (beginning with "A PCEP speaker receiving..."): This paragraph states: "A PCEP speaker receiving any other message apart from StartTLS, open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected message..." As written this is confusing and seems to imply that no other PCEP messages can ever be sent. It looks like this is meant to be scoped to the context of the first message sent/received on session initiation? * Section 8.6 The subsection titles of Section 8 have been taken from Section 8 of RFC 5440, but Section 8.6 here is called "Impact on Network Operations" while in RFC 5440 it's called "Impact on Network Operation". Funnily enough, that final "s" makes a difference. Without it, the section refers to an impact on the functioning of the network itself. With it, it would usually be taken to refer to impact on human operations and management procedures. It looks correct to say that the mechanism of this draft should not significantly impact the functioning of the network. On the other hand, it certainly does impact operations and management procedures, as staff have to develop policies around security requirements for PCEP within the organization, methods for verifying whether device security parameters are configured correctly, checking for unexpected downgrades to insecure sessions, etc. It would be an improvement for the document to address the impact of PCEPS on operational processes. Nits: Sec 3.1, first paragraph: OLD The steps involved in the PCEPS establishment consists of following successive steps: NEW The steps involved in establishing a PCEPS session are as follows: END Sec 3.4, Step 3: s/Any attempt of initiate a TLS/Any attempt to initiate a TLS/ Cheers, -d From nobody Thu May 11 07:16:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED69129409; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:16:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jiaziyi.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xDt3kLG8ESWA; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sender-of-o52.zoho.com (sender-of-o52.zoho.com [135.84.80.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7A8412FC15; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:10:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1494511825; s=jiazi; d=jiaziyi.com; i=ietf@jiaziyi.com; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; l=8878; bh=QRGXXnb0NtrMYBndFiTlI0RIZp8zAJye9cSB7pwL0Ww=; b=LVY+ZVClIEXooexHILY7T5+Eo2wSd2xkZGZoC2LAiq1dhxB5fnC3OpYx91WFt789 zK4zYOtxjlBdhiLKRJsG/HwHGs2j/rkJydiIxIksjUt7otWWGUGemzTTiVmj6Jjmu3n 6NNdel6/gFeuH7WMW8nM+OvmsxD7D/fExJBZzR28= Received: from [192.168.1.101] (230.248.86.88.rdns.comcable.net [88.86.248.230]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1494511825304355.26250910429405; Thu, 11 May 2017 07:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jiazi Yi Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A8363719-BA1B-45E1-9A96-D3136A16AC47" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:10:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1ea04d3a-2446-dcaa-e5b6-21797a3caa57@pi.nu> Cc: "" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath@ietf.org To: Loa Andersson References: <1ea04d3a-2446-dcaa-e5b6-21797a3caa57@pi.nu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-ZohoMailClient: External Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [manet] RtgDir review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:16:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A8363719-BA1B-45E1-9A96-D3136A16AC47 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Loa,=20 Thanks a lot for the review.=20 I don=E2=80=99t know why the nits tool says -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: '1' on line 469 -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: '2' on line 469 because there is no =E2=80=981=E2=80=99/=E2=80=982=E2=80=99 on line 469 = of the draft. May be the RFC editor could tell us what=E2=80=99s the = problem.=20 And we will fix the rest of the issues that you raised in the next = revision.=20 best Jiazi > On 11 May 2017, at 10:14, Loa Andersson wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this = draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or = routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG = review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is = to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the = Routing Directorate, please see = =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir >=20 > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, = it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF = Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through = discussion or by updating the draft. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt > Reviewer: Loa Andersson > Review Date: 2017-05-11 > IETF LC End Date: 2015-05-11 (?) > Intended Status: Experimental >=20 > Summary: >=20 > This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that = should be considered prior to publication. >=20 > Comments: >=20 > The draft is well written and readable also for someone that does > not read manet-draft that often. >=20 > Major Issues: > "No major issues found. >=20 > Minor Issues: >=20 > "No minor issues found." >=20 > Nits: >=20 > I've looked at the the GenArt review by Peter Yee and the Intdir > review by Zhen Cao and largely agree with their comments. >=20 > In addition: The nits tool picks on something that looks like > references on line 469 ( [1] and [2] ) but is not. Don't think you'll > need to fix that, the RFC Editor will fix if necessary. >=20 > I'd like to have the Abstract fleshed out a bit, some more context > given. If you are new to the area and the draft it is very hard to > find the expected useful info in the abstract. >=20 > You use "TC message" already in section 4, but TC (Traffic Control) > is not expanded until section 6, should be done the first time it is > used. >=20 > The abbreviation "SR" is used (often as part of parameter names), but > never really expanded, though one can find the expansion kind of > explained at some places. Could be made clearer. >=20 > /Loa >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet --Apple-Mail=_A8363719-BA1B-45E1-9A96-D3136A16AC47 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Loa, 

Thanks a lot for the = review. 

I = don=E2=80=99t know why the nits tool says

  -- Looks like a reference, but =
probably isn't: '1' on line 469

  -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: '2' on line =
469

because there is no =E2=80=981=E2=80=99/=E2=80=982=E2=80=99 = on line 469 of the draft. May be the RFC editor could tell us what=E2=80=99= s the problem. 

And we will fix the rest of the issues that you raised in the = next revision. 

best

Jiazi

On 11 May 2017, at 10:14, Loa Andersson = <loa@pi.nu> = wrote:

Hello,

I have been selected as = the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate = seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass = through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special = request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the = Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please = see =E2=80=8Bhttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the = use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them = along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and = strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: = draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt
Reviewer: Loa = Andersson
Review Date: 2017-05-11
IETF LC = End Date: 2015-05-11 (?)
Intended Status: Experimental

Summary:

This = document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be = considered prior to publication.

Comments:
The draft is well written and readable also = for someone that does
not read manet-draft that often.

Major Issues:
"No major issues = found.

Minor Issues:

"No minor issues found."

Nits:

I've looked at the the GenArt review by Peter = Yee and the Intdir
review by Zhen Cao and largely agree = with their comments.

In addition: The nits = tool picks on something that looks like
references on line = 469 ( [1] and [2] ) but is not. Don't think you'll
need to = fix that, the RFC Editor will fix if necessary.

I'd like to have the Abstract fleshed out a bit, some more = context
given. If you are new to the area and the draft it = is very hard to
find the expected useful info in the = abstract.

You use "TC message" already in = section 4, but TC (Traffic Control)
is not expanded until = section 6, should be done the first time it is
used.

The abbreviation "SR" is used (often as part = of parameter names), but
never really expanded, though one = can find the expansion kind of
explained at some places. = Could be made clearer.

/Loa

--


Loa Andersson =             &n= bsp;          email: = loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant) =     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

= --Apple-Mail=_A8363719-BA1B-45E1-9A96-D3136A16AC47-- From nobody Thu May 11 09:39:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E65E1314B2; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thomasclausen.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c9CGXpKnu7fK; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F13412F255; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81782240E54; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:33:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thomasclausen.org; s=1.tigertech; t=1494520399; bh=6kmy9vMDLcZlhitZnEd7MYoBBVu00FPLNmjHdANceAg=; h=From:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From; b=YnjTuKDbbaoig/k/NwUTpfTEFntCSAMIMFLVYjH8PPyu/FhUY3w+lL0V2M9qMKG6w G+z0uBshZBiW5AExboJHrStYYNT7uShLtkG8GIskPY9J8pol8auXligDJLNZCV10fc UfN9umok35sIVhyKMP1Y+o/QqDkXAfSjWUkOCIYo= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from [192.168.147.204] (mtg91-1-82-227-24-173.fbx.proxad.net [82.227.24.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 87D1424026A; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:33:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Clausen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2F272736-5654-426E-9715-8942ACD2D021 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 18:33:15 +0200 Message-Id: <598C016A-1E0C-4E68-928D-7700F16850B2@thomasclausen.org> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-scsi.authors@ietf.org, teas@ietf.org, amy.yemin@huawei.com To: rtg-ads@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14E304) Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-scsi-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:39:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2F272736-5654-426E-9715-8942ACD2D021 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The= Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts a= s they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special= request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing A= Ds. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B= http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it wou= ld be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call= comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or= by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-scsi-02 Reviewer: Thomas Clausen Review Date: 17/05/11 IETF LC End Date: Unknown Intended Status: Proposed Standard Summary:=20 I have significant concerns about this document and recommend that the Routi= ng ADs discuss these issues further with the authors. Comments: The document is short, to the point of honestly being entirely unreadable fo= r a non-expert in the very narrow domain of gmpls.=20 This is frankly not helped by the document employing what I can only assume t= o be a clever pun (SCSI ... ) which initially made me go look at the STORM w= g and RFC3720 (iSCSI). Unless there's a really good reason, could the WG not= chose a non-intentionally-misleading acronym? Another illustration of this is, that the document uses terminology that I a= ssume has a very specific interpretation (to those, actually experts in the v= ery narrow domain of gmpls) - but which is incomprehensible outside. For exa= mple, the document talks (already from the Abstract) about "any specific tec= hnology", and in general "technology" - I can think of many things that fall= s under that term (in general) but which I doubt have anything to do with wh= at this document is about.=20 So I went to read the introduction, hoping to understand what this document= was about. As far as I can gather, it has to do with defining a TLV format,= for use by GMPLS extensions for OSPF and IS-IS. Reading through the introdu= ction, and (quickly) skimming through RFC4202, 4203 and 5307 didn't help a g= reat deal in my understanding of what the purpose of these TLVs are (nor, fo= r that matter, what "technology" is supposed to mean). It is not clear to me that the document does not violate "rules" in the prot= ocol that it is setting out to extend. See below. I also feel that there are several places where the document is too vague. Major Issues: Fundamentally, the document needs an introduction written for engineers who h= ave not been part in the development of the document: what is this? Why is i= t needed? How does it fit into the architecture. I must admit that I have ne= ver before felt so lost as to what a document was trying to accomplish, afte= r having actually read the document, twice. The document also needs, I suspect, a terminology section that contains more= than 2119-language -- for example, what's meant by "Technology" ...=20 I went to read the Shepherd write-up (so, they serve an actual purpose), whi= ch indicates that this document was the result of a GEN-ART review of some o= ther document through the WG. I would assume that a synthesis of that review= , plus the resulting WG discussion, would make for excellent fodder for an i= ntroduction here. Section 3 specifies a Type field, stating "the lower range is used ..." and "= ...while the higher range is reserved .." -- I see nowhere a definition of "= lower range" or "higher range", not in this section, nor in the IANA section= . What does "formatted according to the value of the Type field" in the ultima= te bullet of section 3 mean? Essentially, that "the interpretation and forma= t of the Type field MUST be specified when making the IANA registration" (or= something of the sort), which must to be included as advice to the Designat= ed Expert Section 4 calls out a set of rules for inclusion of the defined TLVs - speci= fically calling for preservation of ordering both when processing and when r= e-originating. Is this enabled or prohibited by the protocols into which the= se TLVs are to be inserted? If explicitly enabled, I would appreciate specif= ic pointers to where this is enabled? -- if this is not explicitly enabled, m= ay there be potential interoperability problems here? For having in a differ= ent space written TLV-based protocols, and seen (locally highly optimized) p= arsers/processors/forwarders implementing different ordering priorities, thi= s merits clarification. The IANA section tells IANA to create "either XXX, or YYY" (2nd paragraph) -= - but which is it? I doubt that it is IANA's role to make this arbitration. T= he WG should make a clear recommendation. Minor Issues: Section 4 calls out "Sub-TLV parsing (format) errors, such as an underrun or= overrun, MUST be treated as a malformed ISCD". This seems either overreach= ing or underachieving: are we strictly talking about "there's not the promis= ed amount of octets in the value field" (overrun/underrun)? In which case, p= erhaps state just that. However the "Sub-TLV parsing" indicates that also an= error in parsing of the Value field should be treated the same way? Could y= ou clarify this.=20 I would be surprised, but leave to the SEC-DIR/SEC-AD, if the security consi= derations section is strong enough. The first half of the security considera= tions states "This document does not introduce any security issues beyond th= ose discussed in ...." -- but then goes on, saying "Tampering with .... may h= ave an effect...mechanisms such as ... are suggested". While I am by no mean= s a security expert, it would seem that yes, indeed, this document does intr= oduce new security issues -- for which I would expect a MTI security mechani= sm (Or, a convincing explanation as to why these already are covered). Nits: The errata to RFC2119 is not reflected in the terminology section (missing "= NOT RECOMMENDED") The abstract has an "modify an existing technology specific formats" - which= , presumably, should be "modify any existing..." or "...specific format" ? 2nd paragraph of the introduction, any good reason why the HTML version does= n't have a hyperlink to RFC7138 (XML snafu, I gather)? -- Thomas Heide Clausen =E2=80=A2 @thclausen =E2=80=A2 thomasclaus= en.org=20 www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/thomasheideclausen.html --Apple-Mail-2F272736-5654-426E-9715-8942ACD2D021 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate revi= ewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or r= outing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, a= nd sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide ass= istance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directora= te, please see =E2=80=8Bh= ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments a= re primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you coul= d consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receiv= e, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft.

Doc= ument: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-scsi-02

Reviewer: Thomas Clausen

Review Date: 1= 7/05/11
IETF LC End Date: Unknown
Intended Status: Propo= sed Standard

Summary: 

  • I have significant concerns abou= t this document and recommend that the Routing ADs discuss these issues furt= her with the authors.

Comments:

  • The document is short, to the point of h= onestly being entirely unreadable for a non-expert in the very narrow domain= of gmpls. 
  • This is frankly not helped by the document employing what I ca= n only assume to be a clever pun (SCSI ... ) which initially made me go look= at the STORM wg and RFC3720 (iSCSI). Unless there's a really good reason, c= ould the WG not chose a non-intentionally-misleading acronym?
    • Another illustrat= ion of this is, that the document uses terminology that I assume has a very s= pecific interpretation (to those, actually experts in the very narrow domain= of gmpls) - but which is incomprehensible outside. For example, the documen= t talks (already from the Abstract) about "any specific technology", and in g= eneral "technology" - I can think of many things that falls under that term (= in general) but which I doubt have anything to do with what this document is= about. 
  •  So I went to read the introduction, hoping to understand wh= at this document was about. As far as I can gather, it has to do with defini= ng a TLV format, for use by GMPLS extensions for OSPF and IS-IS. Reading thr= ough the introduction, and (quickly) skimming through RFC4202, 4203 and 5307= didn't help a great deal in my understanding of what the purpose of these T= LVs are (nor, for that matter, what "technology" is supposed to mean).
  • It is no= t clear to me that the document does not violate "rules" in the protocol tha= t it is setting out to extend. See below.
  • I also feel that there are several pl= aces where the document is too vague.

Major Issues:

  • <= span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Fundamentally, the d= ocument needs an introduction written for engineers who have not been part i= n the development of the document: what is this? Why is it needed? How does i= t fit into the architecture. I must admit that I have never before felt so l= ost as to what a document was trying to accomplish, after having actually re= ad the document, twice.
  • The document also needs, I suspect, a terminology secti= on that contains more than 2119-language -- for example, what's meant by "Te= chnology" ... 
  • I went to read the Shepherd write-up (so, they serve an act= ual purpose), which indicates that this document was the result of a GEN-ART= review of some other document through the WG. I would assume that a synthes= is of that review, plus the resulting WG discussion, would make for excellen= t fodder for an introduction here.
  • Section 3 specifies a Type field, stating "t= he lower range is used ..." and "...while the higher range is reserved .." -= - I see nowhere a definition of "lower range" or "higher range", not in this= section, nor in the IANA section.
  • What does "formatted according to the value o= f the Type field" in the ultimate bullet of section 3 mean? Essentially, tha= t "the interpretation and format of the Type field MUST be specified when ma= king the IANA registration" (or something of the sort), which must to be inc= luded as advice to the Designated Expert
  • Section 4 calls out a set of rules for= inclusion of the defined TLVs - specifically calling for preservation of or= dering both when processing and when re-originating. Is this enabled or proh= ibited by the protocols into which these TLVs are to be inserted? If explici= tly enabled, I would appreciate specific pointers to where this is enabled? -= - if this is not explicitly enabled, may there be potential interoperability= problems here? For having in a different space written TLV-based protocols,= and seen (locally highly optimized) parsers/processors/forwarders= implementing different ordering priorities, this merits clarification.
  • The IAN= A section tells IANA to create "either XXX, or YYY" (2nd paragraph) -- but w= hich is it? I doubt that it is IANA's role to make this arbitration. The WG s= hould make a clear recommendation.

Minor Issues:

  • Section 4 calls out "S= ub-TLV parsing (format) errors, such as an underrun or overrun, MUST be trea= ted as a malformed ISCD".  This seems either overreaching or underachie= ving: are we strictly talking about "there's not the promised amount of octe= ts in the value field" (overrun/underrun)? In which case, perhaps state just= that. However the "Sub-TLV parsing" indicates that also an error in parsing= of the Value field should be treated the same way? Could you clarify this.&= nbsp;
  • I would be surprised, but leave to the SEC-DIR/SEC-AD, if the security co= nsiderations section is strong enough. The first half of the security consid= erations states "This document does not introduce any security issues beyond= those discussed in ...." -- but then goes on, saying "Tampering with .... m= ay have an effect...mechanisms such as ... are suggested". While I am by no m= eans a security expert, it would seem that yes, indeed, this document does i= ntroduce new security issues -- for which I would expect a MTI security mech= anism (Or, a convincing explanation as to why these already are covered).

Nits:

  • The errata to RFC2119 is not reflected in the terminology section (= missing "NOT RECOMMENDED")
  • The abstract has an "modify an existing technology s= pecific formats" - which, presumably, should be "modify any existing..." or "= ...specific format" ?
  • 2nd paragraph of the introduction, any good reason why th= e HTML version doesn't have a hyperlink to RFC7138 (XML snafu, I gather)?

= --Apple-Mail-2F272736-5654-426E-9715-8942ACD2D021-- From nobody Thu May 11 09:44:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A011294A6; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NZn9SsUgZL3H; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96CE2129412; Thu, 11 May 2017 09:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DMS87338; Thu, 11 May 2017 16:38:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from BLREML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.20.4.47) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 11 May 2017 17:38:15 +0100 Received: from BLREML501-MBB.china.huawei.com ([10.20.5.200]) by BLREML408-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.20.4.47]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 11 May 2017 22:07:57 +0530 From: Dhruv Dhody To: Dan Frost , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-pceps.all@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Pce] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 Thread-Index: AQHSyltYC6H+jHLTg06wAJfoFK1pl6HvJ+jQ Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:37:56 +0000 Message-ID: <23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B8CAD810B@blreml501-mbb> References: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.195.40.152] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0202.59149379.015F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 47fe5610a508270e0cfe67eaa0713e17 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [Pce] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:44:52 -0000 Hi Dan,=20 Thanks for your review. Please see inline...=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dan Frost > Sent: 11 May 2017 19:01 > To: rtg-ads@ietf.org > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-pce-pceps.all@ietf.org; pce@ietf.org > Subject: [Pce] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 >=20 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related dr= afts as > they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on specia= l > request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routin= g ADs. > For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir >=20 > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it = would > be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call > comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion = or by > updating the draft. >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 > Reviewer: Dan Frost > Review Date: 2017-05-11 > IETF LC End Date: > Intended Status: Standards Track >=20 > Summary: >=20 > I have significant concerns about this document and recommend that the > Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors. >=20 > Comments: >=20 > This document proposes to add a STARTTLS mechanism to the PCE protocol. > If this basic approach is accepted, then the document is in good shape. > It's clear, complete, and straightforward. The question is whether mandat= ing > STARTTLS is actually a good idea. >=20 [Dhruv] Yes, this has been discussed in the WG.=20 The individual draft in fact asked for another port no, and during the WG a= doption process, it was discussed in the WG as well as with security expert= s, and concluded that we should use STARTTLS.=20 As far as I am aware, use of different port for secured version of a protoc= ol has not been followed by IETF for some time now. =20 > Major Issues: >=20 > My main concern with this document is that it takes as given that STARTTL= S is > the right way to secure PCEP with TLS. Perhaps this argument was already = had at > some point and this draft is the result, but if so then at a bare minimum= it needs > rationale explaining why STARTTLS was chosen over alternatives, and text = that > addresses weaknesses and mitigations associated with STARTTLS processing,= in > particular the possibility and relative ease of downgrade attacks. >=20 [Dhruv] I see the benefit of adding text, something in line of -=20 "As per the recommendation from [RFC7525], PCEP peers that support PCEPS, S= HOULD prefer strict TLS configuration i.e. do not allow non-TLS PCEP sessio= ns to be established." I will discuss further with my co-authors/chairs/AD, if we also need to spe= ll out the full rationale here. =20 > The obvious alternative would be to not use STARTTLS and simply allocate > another TCP port for PCEP-over-TLS. This avoids complicating the PCE prot= ocol > and introducing the potential for downgrade attacks based on STARTTLS. PC= E is > used to convey critical path-determination information in carrier network= s, > among other things. That it's not fully authenticated and encrypted in al= l cases > already is an unfortunate legacy of a bygone era. Ideally operators shoul= d move > as quickly as possible to secure PCEP and aim to entirely remove the unse= cure > form. > STARTTLS serves a weaker goal of "opportunistic" security, which, while i= t has its > uses, makes little sense for PCE compared to simply deprecating the unsec= ured > version. >=20 > Minor Issues: >=20 > * Section 3.3: "A RECOMMENDED value for StartTLSWait timer is 60 seconds.= " > This seems like a very long time to wait for an initial reply on an alrea= dy- > established TCP connection. >=20 [Dhruv] We saw a benefit in keeping this same as the OpenWait time in the P= CEP session establishment. =20 > * Section 3.2, fifth paragraph (beginning with "A PCEP speaker > receiving..."): >=20 > This paragraph states: "A PCEP speaker receiving any other message apart = from > StartTLS, open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected message..." >=20 > As written this is confusing and seems to imply that no other PCEP messag= es can > ever be sent. It looks like this is meant to be scoped to the context of = the first > message sent/received on session initiation? >=20 [Dhruv] Yes. I will add clarification that this is for the first message.=20 > * Section 8.6 >=20 > The subsection titles of Section 8 have been taken from Section 8 of RFC = 5440, > but Section 8.6 here is called "Impact on Network Operations" > while in RFC 5440 it's called "Impact on Network Operation". Funnily enou= gh, > that final "s" makes a difference. Without it, the section refers to an i= mpact on > the functioning of the network itself. With it, it would usually be taken= to refer > to impact on human operations and management procedures. >=20 > It looks correct to say that the mechanism of this draft should not signi= ficantly > impact the functioning of the network. On the other hand, it certainly do= es > impact operations and management procedures, as staff have to develop > policies around security requirements for PCEP within the organization, m= ethods > for verifying whether device security parameters are configured correctly= , > checking for unexpected downgrades to insecure sessions, etc. It would be= an > improvement for the document to address the impact of PCEPS on operationa= l > processes. >=20 [Dhruv] Agreed. I will work on text in this section, along these lines.=20 > Nits: [Dhruv] Ack for all.=20 Thanks for your review.=20 Regards, Dhruv >=20 > Sec 3.1, first paragraph: > OLD > The steps involved in the PCEPS establishment consists of following > successive steps: > NEW > The steps involved in establishing a PCEPS session are as follows: > END >=20 > Sec 3.4, Step 3: > s/Any attempt of initiate a TLS/Any attempt to initiate a TLS/ >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > -d >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Pce mailing list > Pce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Thu May 11 11:28:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A85B1293D6; Thu, 11 May 2017 11:28:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F0zJo0DS9Dqx; Thu, 11 May 2017 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 860C6129B0A; Thu, 11 May 2017 11:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v4BIMLFW019211; Thu, 11 May 2017 19:22:21 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (73.204.115.87.dyn.plus.net [87.115.204.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v4BIMKDg019191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 11 May 2017 19:22:21 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Dhruv Dhody'" , "'Dan Frost'" , Cc: , , References: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> <23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B8CAD810B@blreml501-mbb> In-Reply-To: <23CE718903A838468A8B325B80962F9B8CAD810B@blreml501-mbb> Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 19:22:13 +0100 Message-ID: <08f801d2ca83$838df1d0$8aa9d570$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 thread-index: AQJJcu8a0d6PWR3WtIJBOBWDqgn9PwJKnsZjoO/K9YA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23064.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--14.894-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--14.894-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: oTBA/+sdKaYn2WEbWzq9rXBRIrj8R47FG05a723w5ydcKZwALwMGs8i4 GR3ZCO6riOa7fw0bKuIWcqsxeJi+6wH/zrweiLuz8eSmTJSmEv2Hxi2fvkKUM5W/KlV6zYxFUiE kc086x3bdB9WdCbsnuhETDGyRSLo4wV5ZD2sQLdVswYo64ufkVeiY+s2L3xQETiKNDvuWVeGhqe T3Vbva/cuVSg9BRaEQxJf2YEv66abwz7Dn+9MyvZ4CIKY/Hg3AtOt1ofVlaoKYGUPdON1eXvoLR 4+zsDTtjoczmuoPCq0VBVGu21RXHVlBP+PgdpFD72LTUzxP7LEyXL0FQkFBlEMyXKmJaB0e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [Pce] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 18:28:20 -0000 > > This document proposes to add a STARTTLS mechanism to the PCE protocol. > > If this basic approach is accepted, then the document is in good shape. > > It's clear, complete, and straightforward. The question is whether mandating > > STARTTLS is actually a good idea. > > > [Dhruv] Yes, this has been discussed in the WG. > The individual draft in fact asked for another port no, and during the WG > adoption process, it was discussed in the WG as well as with security experts, and > concluded that we should use STARTTLS. > As far as I am aware, use of different port for secured version of a protocol has > not been followed by IETF for some time now. Right. Burning additional ports has been frowned upon for a while. I don't think it is right for a draft to explain why one solution was chosen over another. The question is: does the chosen solution work? But Dan is right that any weaknesses need to be highlighted and addressed/mitigated/warned. Cheers, Adrian From nobody Thu May 11 13:51:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389C113149C; Thu, 11 May 2017 13:51:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfQLh43AkuzP; Thu, 11 May 2017 13:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F72F12EBBC; Thu, 11 May 2017 13:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.103] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDC8418014F3; Thu, 11 May 2017 22:46:08 +0200 (CEST) To: Jiazi Yi References: <1ea04d3a-2446-dcaa-e5b6-21797a3caa57@pi.nu> Cc: "" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath@ietf.org From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 22:46:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [manet] RtgDir review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 20:51:47 -0000 Jiazi Inline please On 2017-05-11 16:10, Jiazi Yi wrote: > Hi Loa, > > Thanks a lot for the review. > > I don’t know why the nits tool says > > -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: '1' on line 469 > > -- Looks like a reference, but probably isn't: '2' on line 469 line 469 is (i've marked the '1' and '2' 469 (PT_metric, PT_address[1], PT_address[2], ..., PT_address[n]) ~~~ ~~~ My question is really not to the authors, I think your text is fine. RFC Editor might escape the '[' and ']', but I don't really understand why the nits tool does not have a warning for the '[n]' on the same line. I will bring this up witht he tools people. /Loa > > > because there is no ‘1’/‘2’ on line 469 of the draft. May be the RFC > editor could tell us what’s the problem. > > And we will fix the rest of the issues that you raised in the next > revision. > > best > > Jiazi > >> On 11 May 2017, at 10:14, Loa Andersson > >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this >> draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or >> routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG >> review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is >> to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about >> the Routing Directorate, please see ​ >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir >> >> Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, >> it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other >> IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them >> through discussion or by updating the draft. >> >> Document: draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-12.txt >> Reviewer: Loa Andersson >> Review Date: 2017-05-11 >> IETF LC End Date: 2015-05-11 (?) >> Intended Status: Experimental >> >> Summary: >> >> This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that >> should be considered prior to publication. >> >> Comments: >> >> The draft is well written and readable also for someone that does >> not read manet-draft that often. >> >> Major Issues: >> "No major issues found. >> >> Minor Issues: >> >> "No minor issues found." >> >> Nits: >> >> I've looked at the the GenArt review by Peter Yee and the Intdir >> review by Zhen Cao and largely agree with their comments. >> >> In addition: The nits tool picks on something that looks like >> references on line 469 ( [1] and [2] ) but is not. Don't think you'll >> need to fix that, the RFC Editor will fix if necessary. >> >> I'd like to have the Abstract fleshed out a bit, some more context >> given. If you are new to the area and the draft it is very hard to >> find the expected useful info in the abstract. >> >> You use "TC message" already in section 4, but TC (Traffic Control) >> is not expanded until section 6, should be done the first time it is >> used. >> >> The abbreviation "SR" is used (often as part of parameter names), but >> never really expanded, though one can find the expansion kind of >> explained at some places. Could be made clearer. >> >> /Loa >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> manet mailing list >> manet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Fri May 12 01:39:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64F4E1286AB; Fri, 12 May 2017 01:39:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, 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DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b177:a243:7a69:5ab8%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Fri, 12 May 2017 16:33:49 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmA== Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:33:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.194.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.5915739F.0020, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.84, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 77cbb30db962d15f261766c340e38a03 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: 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alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 May 2017 11:42:41 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com (xch-rcd-017.cisco.com [173.37.102.27]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v4CBgf7i006356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 12 May 2017 11:42:41 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Fri, 12 May 2017 06:42:41 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Fri, 12 May 2017 06:42:41 -0500 From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" To: Mach Chen , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCA Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:42:41 +0000 Message-ID: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1d.0.161209 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7CDC8F30B01D2F428503CEE6B19D0E61@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:47:51 -0000 SGkgTWFjaCwNCg0KTWFueSB0aGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBkZXRhaWxlZCByZXZpZXcgb2YgdGhlIGRv 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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" To: Mach Chen , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCAABUaawA= Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 21:46:54 +0000 Message-ID: <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> References: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1d.0.161209 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt X-BeenThere: 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Lopez" To: Dan Frost CC: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-pce-pceps.all@ietf.org" , "pce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 Thread-Index: AQHSylt1ZRa8At1SrEClaZOroEkISaHyTCYA Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 13:58:26 +0000 Message-ID: <940558E0-FF0F-4461-8122-F99C64D32C39@telefonica.com> References: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1494509464.34491.973270680.4CBC76C2@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: mm.st; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;mm.st; dmarc=none action=none header.from=telefonica.com; x-originating-ip: [195.76.232.154] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR0601MB2166; 7:iJgcIpMMs3aFXnQ2EjBFnli+iMiNTZut8jum+SexQK4xaVpSbtgYSA+jHqNIe04gpTx7NTN6S9TPodIOZ5ZaA3AxTFWItKouv+mLr+Upz27gH7IOuBEeQt+xc5ud1847ulK2dglnwBpTV69D9Ltw4Ca2dnLovp1jnjSwTX38QMF9MMh8Za/w471vvjJUiG/d7dWEL/zyDuBKQarccIGUr+MCSfh5xZmc0d57CtJKlu5nTJZd3Iql5R/lGujHLU9q2fnwyV9MMpM+1mJXhcflG3gdRcwQVF/376tkp8yvlLS6xV88ehXyepDg4HwDhYG8liggK031AMpHKBBHQQ2oSQ== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bd1b6ec8-699a-4b79-65cd-08d49a08210b x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081); SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2166; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(40392960112811)(192374486261705)(21532816269658); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(3002001)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(201703131423075)(201702281529075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(6072148); SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2166; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2166; x-forefront-prvs: 0306EE2ED4 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39410400002)(39840400002)(39450400003)(39850400002)(39400400002)(39860400002)(40134004)(51914003)(377424004)(76104003)(377454003)(252514010)(24454002)(53546009)(2900100001)(606005)(6486002)(229853002)(6506006)(6436002)(10000500002)(2950100002)(6916009)(1720100001)(99286003)(33656002)(82746002)(53936002)(110136004)(966004)(6246003)(36756003)(38730400002)(4326008)(478600001)(83716003)(3660700001)(3280700002)(5250100002)(76176999)(54356999)(50986999)(25786009)(5660300001)(8676002)(3846002)(8936002)(6116002)(102836003)(81166006)(561944003)(66066001)(189998001)(230783001)(6512007)(6306002)(54906002)(53946003)(86362001)(7906003)(236005)(2906002)(7736002)(559001)(299355004)(19627235001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2166; H:DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 May 2017 13:58:26.8891 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0601MB2166 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 14:00:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=3D_9FEB5268-98BA-4654-BECA-5C16B7883EF6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 Hi Dan, > On 11 May 2017, at 14:31 , Dan Frost wrote: >=3D20 >=3D20 > Hello, >=3D20 > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this =3D draft. > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related > drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and > sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide > assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing > Directorate, please see > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir >=3D20 > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, =3D it > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF > Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them =3D through > discussion or by updating the draft. >=3D20 > Document: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12 > Reviewer: Dan Frost > Review Date: 2017-05-11 > IETF LC End Date:=3D20 > Intended Status: Standards Track >=3D20 > Summary: >=3D20 > I have significant concerns about this document and recommend that the > Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors. >=3D20 > Comments: >=3D20 > This document proposes to add a STARTTLS mechanism to the PCE =3D protocol. > If this basic approach is accepted, then the document is in good =3D shape. > It's clear, complete, and straightforward. The question is whether > mandating STARTTLS is actually a good idea. >=3D20 > Major Issues: >=3D20 > My main concern with this document is that it takes as given that > STARTTLS is the right way to secure PCEP with TLS. Perhaps this =3D argument > was already had at some point and this draft is the result, but if so > then at a bare minimum it needs rationale explaining why STARTTLS was > chosen over alternatives, and text that addresses weaknesses and > mitigations associated with STARTTLS processing, in particular the > possibility and relative ease of downgrade attacks. >=3D20 > The obvious alternative would be to not use STARTTLS and simply =3D allocate > another TCP port for PCEP-over-TLS. This avoids complicating the PCE > protocol and introducing the potential for downgrade attacks based on > STARTTLS. PCE is used to convey critical path-determination =3D information > in carrier networks, among other things. That it's not fully > authenticated and encrypted in all cases already is an unfortunate > legacy of a bygone era. Ideally operators should move as quickly as > possible to secure PCEP and aim to entirely remove the unsecure form. > STARTTLS serves a weaker goal of "opportunistic" security, which, =3D while > it has its uses, makes little sense for PCE compared to simply > deprecating the unsecured version. Thanks for the review. Regarding your major concern, let me try to give =3D you and the Routing ADs the context for the use of the STARTTLS command. = =3D In the original versions of the draft we followed the proposal you =3D suggest, with a dedicated port for the PCEPS protocol. Here you go the =3D part of the -00 version (just after WG adoption, the last one proposing =3D a dedicated port) regarding this point: 8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94 3.1. TCP ports Since PCEP can operate either with or without TLS, it is necessary for the PCEP speaker to indicate whether it wants to set up a TLS connection or not. There are two main ways of achieving this: o One option is to use a different port number for TLS connections (for example, the port 443 used for HTTPS) o The other is to use the regular port number and have the PCEP speaker request that the PCE switch the connection to TLS using a protocol-specific mechanism (for example, the STARTTLS for mail and news protocols) To avoid requiring a specific PCEP extension to request TLS, this document proposes the usage of the former solution to implement PCEPS. The default destination port number for PCEPS is TCP/XXXX. NOTE: This port has to be agreed and registered as PCEPS with IANA. 8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94 During the discussions for adoption, the community decided to contact =3D experts from the TSVWG group to validate this and other proposals, and =3D the connection with potentially related techniques like TCP-AO and what =3D was being discussed in the TCPINC WG, now included in the "Security =3D Considerations". During these discussions, those experts were extremely =3D wary of the dedicated port approach, and the final decision was to move =3D towards the STARTTLS approach. You have the complete record of the =3D debate in the list archives, but I am including a excerpt of it below: 8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94 On 7/1/2014 7:45 AM, Diego R. Lopez wrote: > On 30 Jun 2014, at 18:28 , Joe Touch > wrote: >>>=3D20 >>> We are not proposing to use STARTTLS because, after discussing the >>> different options for doing so in PCEP, we believe including it =3D would >>> translate into a change of the PCEP protocol: >>> (1) against the original commitment of not changing it >>> (2) would translate into a much longer adoption by implementations >>=3D20 >> I don't understand or agree with either position. STARTTLS does not =3D change the protocol; it precedes it. >>=3D20 >> The complex mechanism below is, IMO, much less likely to be =3D successfuly adopted than STARTTLS, which is widely used. >=3D20 > As far as I know (RFC 2595, RFC 3207, RFC 4217, RFC 6120, RFC 2830, > RFC 4642) RFC4217 doesn't appear to use STARTTLS. RFC6120 just refers completely back to RFC2595. Section 2.1 of RFC2830 is a good example of performing STARTTLS in a =3D non-plaintext command/response protocol (LDAP), and how simple it can =3D and should be. I now see your concern, but RFC2830 provides a great example of a very =3D simple way to extend a protocol to address this issue. This further =3D ensures that the security state (secure vs. not) is integrated within =3D the protocol, so the protocol itself can disable commands if needed when = =3D security isn't available. FWIW, Section 7 of RFC2595 gives a good summary of reasons why using a =3D separate security port should be discouraged. Joe > STARTTLS is directly applicable to communication protocols > based on plain-text command/response protocols. PCEP does not follow > this model, so STARTTLS should become a new message or an object in =3D the > Open message. Both options imply changes in the PCEP protocol that =3D look > more complex than the suggested mechanism (or a dedicated port, if you > pay attention to the discussion shared in the original message by Qin) >=3D20 > Be goode, >=3D20 >>=3D20 >> Joe >>=3D20 >>>=3D20 >>> Be goode, >>>=3D20 >>> On 28 Jun 2014, at 06:35 , Joe Touch > wrote: >>>=3D20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=3D20 >>>> On 6/24/2014 4:03 AM, Qin Wu wrote: >>>>> Hi, Joe: >>>>> Sorry for late reply. >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Authors have been discussing a mechanism to enable secure PCEP via >>>>> TLS without making changes to the current PCEP protocol or state >>>>> machine. >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Since having a separate port has been discouraged, we suggest the >>>> ? following approach based on discovery mechanisms or configuration = =3D and >>>>> initial transport security assessment by the peer. >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> 1) A PCE (given a combination of IP address and port) only =3D supports >>>>> one type of connection, either TLS or not. >>>>=3D20 >>>> I'm not sure why that needs to be the case, given STARTTLS. >>>>=3D20 >>>>> Note that a different IP >>>>> address SHOULD be used for supporting both and will be considered =3D as >>>>> different PCEs. >>>>=3D20 >>>> I don't quite understand this. Different IP addresses should be =3D different PCEs anyway. If you want to support both encrypted and =3D non-encrypted, why not use the existing TLS mechanism for that - =3D STARTTLS? >>>>=3D20 >>>>> 2) The PCC MAY discover whether the PCE is willing to connect, >>>>> requires TLS or not via any of the discovery mechanisms. >>>>=3D20 >>>> That seems reasonable, but doesn't answer why a PCE needs to =3D support only one type of connection. The discovery could indicate =3D "either" and let the client decide, e.g., if both are supported (again, =3D via STARTTLS) >>>>=3D20 >>>>> 3) When connecting to a PCE that enforces TLS, the PCC MUST start =3D a >>>>> TLS connection prior to any exchange of PCEP messages. >>>>=3D20 >>>> Isn't that already what happens if TLS-only is used? >>>>=3D20 >>>>> Any PCEP message >>>>> received out of an appropriate TLS context will be rejected by the = =3D PCE >>>>> with a PCErr (Error-Type=3D3D1, Error-value=3D3D3, TLV identifying th= e =3D need for >>>>> TLS) message. [Existing error message, new TLV] >>>>=3D20 >>>> If non-TLS connections are rejected, then there shouldn't be any =3D such messages seen AFAICT. I.e., that would be a TLS port that is =3D configured to not support STARTTLS. >>>>=3D20 >>>>> 4) If a PCC attempts to start a TLS connection with a PCE without >>>>> success, it MAY attempt a further connection attempt without TLS =3D on a >>>>> different IP address if known, though that could imply a security >>>>> degradation. >>>>=3D20 >>>> I don't understand why a different address would be considered =3D degraded access to the same PCE. That seems like a different PCE, as =3D noted above. >>>>=3D20 >>>> If you want to support degraded (non-secure) access, why not just =3D support STARTTLS? >>>>=3D20 >>>>> Several flows become possible this way, and discovery can be used =3D to >>>> simplify them but it is not essential for them to work. Let's =3D consider them >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> * With discovery (or config) >>>>> 1.- PCC learn via discovery that the desired PCE require TLS. >>>>> 2.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake >>>>> 3.- PCEP exchange within TLS context >>>>=3D20 >>>> Makes sense. >>>>=3D20 >>>>> --- >>>>> 1.- PCC learn via discovery that the desired PCE does not use TLS. >>>>> 2.- PCC initiates TCP connection >>>>> 3.- PCEP exchange over TCP >>>>=3D20 >>>> Makes sense. >>>>=3D20 >>>>> * Without discovery - PCE requiring TLS >>>>> 1.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake >>>>=3D20 >>>> Wouldn't the TLS handshake here fail? Why would the rest of the =3D exchange occur? >>>>=3D20 >>>>> 2.- PCEP exchange within TLS context >>>>> --- >>>>> 1.- PCC initiates TCP connection and attempts a PCEP OPEN message >>>>> 2.- PCE rejects the message with a PCErr message (Error-Type=3D3D1, = =3D Error-value=3D3D3, TLV identifying the need for TLS(optionally)) >>>>> 3.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake >>>>> 4.- PCEP exchange within TLS context >>>>=3D20 >>>> (see issue above) >>>>=3D20 >>>>> * Without discovery - PCE not requiring TLS >>>>> 1.- PCC initiates TCP connection >>>>> 2.- PCEP exchange over TCP >>>>> --- >>>>> 1.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake >>>>=3D20 >>>> Why is this even attempted? >>>>=3D20 >>>>> 2.- No TLS context established with PCE or error message received >>>>> (optionally) >>>>> 3.- PCC initiates TCP connection >>>>> 4.- PCEP exchange over TCP >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> What do you think of this approach? >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Also we like to point a related discussion happened on UTA mailing = =3D list: >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uta/current/msg00423.html =3D >>>>=3D20 >>>> Those points were raised on the TSVWG list too, but fail to address = =3D the key issue - insecure ports are insecure. Regardless of how many =3D ports we allocate, it's no longer clear we should continue to deploy new = =3D insecure services on the Internet. >>>>=3D20 >>>> Joe >>>>=3D20 >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Authors >>>>> -----=3DE9=3D82=3DAE=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3DE5=3D8E=3D9F=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6----= - >>>>> =3DE5=3D8F=3D91=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3DE4=3DBA=3DBA: Joe Touch [mailto:touc= h@isi.edu =3D ] >>>>> =3DE5=3D8F=3D91=3DE9=3D80=3D81=3DE6=3D97=3DB6=3DE9=3D97=3DB4: 2014=3D= E5=3DB9=3DB43=3DE6=3D9C=3D8813=3DE6=3D97=3D =3DA5 23:58 >>>>> =3DE6=3D94=3DB6=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3DE4=3DBA=3DBA: Qin Wu; Diego R. Lopez= ; tcpm@ietf.org =3D >>>>> =3DE6=3D8A=3D84=3DE9=3D80=3D81: draft-ietf-pce-pceps@tools.ietf.org = =3D >>>>> =3DE4=3DB8=3DBB=3DE9=3DA2=3D98: Re: [tcpm] Looking for advice on a dr= aft from =3D the PCE working group >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Hi, Qin, >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> On 3/13/2014 3:35 AM, Qin Wu wrote: >>>>>> Hi, Joe: >>>>>>=3D20 >>>>>> It is still not clear to me when we choose the same port and when = =3D we >>>>>> choose the different port if we apply TLS to different protocols, >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> It's simple to determine: >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> - if you designed your service before STARTTLS, then you =3D needed >>>>> a separate port >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> - if you are designing your port now, you don't >>>>>=3D20 >>>>>> Take SMTP, POP3,IMAP as examples: >>>>> ... >>>>>> It looks to me when we apply SSL to SMTP,POP3,IMAP, then SMTP, =3D POP3 >>>>>> and IMAP with SSL support(i.e.,SMTPS,POP3S,IMAPS) >>>>>>=3D20 >>>>>> Will usually choose the different ports. >>>>>>=3D20 >>>>>> The same rule above is also applied to HTTP when we apply SSL to >>>>>> HTTP(i.e., HTTPS). >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> All of the above are good examples of the first part of the rule. >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Note that we have other assignments that now would be declined, =3D because we've learned to do better. E.g., there would not be a POP2 or =3D POP3 because we would expect POP to indicate the protocol version =3D in-band. We also no longer assign multiple names for the same service, =3D as was done for http/www, nor do we now assign multiple ports for the =3D same service (80, 8080), nor do we now assign ports for development =3D purposes (http-dev). >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> We've learned to do better. >>>>>=3D20 >>>>> Joe >>>>>=3D20 >>>=3D20 8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94 So we decided to go STARTTLS a-la-LDAP, so to say.=3D20 > Minor Issues: >=3D20 > * Section 3.3: "A RECOMMENDED value for StartTLSWait timer is 60 > seconds." This seems like a very long time to wait for an initial =3D reply > on an already-established TCP connection. This value was proposed to be of the order of magnitude of the KeepAlive = =3D PCEP timer (recommended to be of 30 seconds in RFC 5440) Since the =3D StartTLS message is required to happen before any other message, it is =3D not possible to rely on the timer negotiation during the Open message =3D exchange. I agree the value looks very long, and we are open to any =3D suggestion on this, either as recommending a concrete value or by =3D recommending an interval (between 5 and 30 secs?) > * Section 3.2, fifth paragraph (beginning with "A PCEP speaker > receiving..."): >=3D20 > This paragraph states: "A PCEP speaker receiving any other message =3D apart > from StartTLS, open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected =3D message..." >=3D20 > As written this is confusing and seems to imply that no other PCEP > messages can ever be sent. It looks like this is meant to be scoped to > the context of the first message sent/received on session initiation? You are completely right. It should read: =3DE2=3D80=3D9CA PCEP speaker =3D receiving as first message any other message apart from StartTLS, Open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected message=3DE2= =3D80=3D =3DA6" It is corrected in the new version I am editing right now. > * Section 8.6 >=3D20 > The subsection titles of Section 8 have been taken from Section 8 of =3D RFC > 5440, but Section 8.6 here is called "Impact on Network Operations" > while in RFC 5440 it's called "Impact on Network Operation". Funnily > enough, that final "s" makes a difference. Without it, the section > refers to an impact on the functioning of the network itself. With it, > it would usually be taken to refer to impact on human operations and > management procedures. >=3D20 > It looks correct to say that the mechanism of this draft should not > significantly impact the functioning of the network. On the other =3D hand, > it certainly does impact operations and management procedures, as =3D staff > have to develop policies around security requirements for PCEP within > the organization, methods for verifying whether device security > parameters are configured correctly, checking for unexpected =3D downgrades > to insecure sessions, etc. It would be an improvement for the document > to address the impact of PCEPS on operational processes. I believe all these operational policy aspects are discussed in the =3D other subsections of section 8, and therefore making a explicit mention =3D to them under 8.6 would be enough. BTW, in order to be consistent to RFC = =3D 5440 I have deleted the =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cs=3DE2=3D80=3D9D in the title of the= =3D section... > Nits: >=3D20 > Sec 3.1, first paragraph: > OLD > The steps involved in the PCEPS establishment consists of following > successive steps: > NEW > The steps involved in establishing a PCEPS session are as follows: > END Corrected. > Sec 3.4, Step 3: > s/Any attempt of initiate a TLS/Any attempt to initiate a TLS/ Corrected as well. Be goode, -- "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" Dr Diego R. Lopez Telefonica I+D http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com Tel: +34 913 129 041 Mobile: +34 682 051 091 ---------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=3D_9FEB5268-98BA-4654-BECA-5C16B7883EF6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dutf-8 Hi Dan,

On = 11 =3D May 2017, at 14:31 , Dan Frost <frost@mm.st> wrote:


Hello,

I have been selected a= s =3D the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
The =3D Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, = =3D and
sometimes on special request. The purpose of the =3D review is to provide
assistance to the Routing ADs. For =3D more information about the Routing
Directorate, please =3D see
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the= =3D use of the Routing ADs, it
would be helpful if you could = =3D consider them along with any other IETF
Last Call comments = =3D that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-pce-pceps-12
Reviewer: Da= n =3D Frost
Review Date: 2017-05-11
IETF LC End = =3D Date: 
Intended Status: Standards Track

Summary:

I h= ave =3D significant concerns about this document and recommend that the
Routing ADs discuss these issues further with the authors.

Comments:

Th= is =3D document proposes to add a STARTTLS mechanism to the PCE protocol.
If this basic approach is accepted, then the document is in = =3D good shape.
It's clear, complete, and straightforward. The = =3D question is whether
mandating STARTTLS is actually a good = =3D idea.

Major Issues:

My main concern with this document is that it takes as given = =3D that
STARTTLS is the right way to secure PCEP with TLS. =3D Perhaps this argument
was already had at some point and =3D this draft is the result, but if so
then at a bare minimum = =3D it needs rationale explaining why STARTTLS was
chosen over = =3D alternatives, and text that addresses weaknesses and
mitigations associated with STARTTLS processing, in =3D particular the
possibility and relative ease of downgrade = =3D attacks.

The obvious alternative would be = =3D to not use STARTTLS and simply allocate
another TCP port = =3D for PCEP-over-TLS. This avoids complicating the PCE
protoco= l=3D and introducing the potential for downgrade attacks based on
STARTTLS. PCE is used to convey critical path-determination = =3D information
in carrier networks, among other things. That = =3D it's not fully
authenticated and encrypted in all cases =3D already is an unfortunate
legacy of a bygone era. Ideally = =3D operators should move as quickly as
possible to secure =3D PCEP and aim to entirely remove the unsecure form.
STARTTLS= =3D serves a weaker goal of "opportunistic" security, which, while
it has its uses, makes little sense for PCE compared to =3D simply
deprecating the unsecured version.

Thanks for the review. Regarding your major concern, let me = =3D try to give you and the Routing ADs the context for the use of the =3D STARTTLS command. In the original versions of the draft we followed the =3D proposal you suggest, with a dedicated port for the PCEPS protocol. Here = =3D you go the part of the -00 version (just after WG adoption, the last one = =3D proposing a dedicated port) regarding this point:
8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94
3.1.  TCP = =3D ports

   Since PCEP can operate =3D either with or without TLS, it is necessary
   for the PCEP speaker = =3D to indicate whether it wants to set up a TLS
   connection or =3D not.  There are two main ways of achieving this:

   o  One option is to use a =3D different port number for TLS connections
      (for example, = =3D the port 443 used for HTTPS)

   o  The other is to use the regular port =3D number and have the PCEP
      speaker request that the PCE =3D switch the connection to TLS using a
      protocol-specific = =3D mechanism (for example, the STARTTLS for mail
      and news =3D protocols)

   To avoid requiring a = =3D specific PCEP extension to request TLS, this
   document proposes the = =3D usage of the former solution to implement
   PCEPS.

   The default destination port number for = =3D PCEPS is TCP/XXXX.

   NOTE: This port has = =3D to be agreed and registered as PCEPS with IANA.
8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94

<= /div>
During the discussions for adoption, the community decided to = =3D contact experts from the TSVWG group to validate this and other =3D proposals, and the connection with potentially related techniques like =3D TCP-AO and what was being discussed in the TCPINC WG, now included in =3D the "Security Considerations". During these discussions, those experts =3D were extremely wary of the dedicated port approach, and the final =3D decision was to move towards the STARTTLS approach. You have the =3D complete record of the debate in the list archives, but I am including a = =3D excerpt of it below:

8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94

<= /div>
On 7/1/201= 4 =3D 7:45 AM, Diego R. Lopez wrote:
On 30 Jun 2014, at 18:28 , Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:

We are not proposing to use STARTTLS because,= =3D after discussing the
different options for doing so in =3D PCEP, we believe including it would
translate into a =3D change of the PCEP protocol:
(1) against the original =3D commitment of not changing it
(2) would translate into a = =3D much longer adoption by implementations

I don't understand or agree with either position. STARTTLS =3D does not change the protocol; it precedes it.

The complex mechanism below is, IMO, much less likely to be = =3D successfuly adopted than STARTTLS, which is widely used.

As far as I know (RFC 2595, RFC = =3D 3207, RFC 4217, RFC 6120, RFC 2830,
RFC 4642)

RFC4217 = =3D doesn't appear to use STARTTLS.
RFC6120 ju= st =3D refers completely back to RFC2595.

Section 2.1 of RFC2830 is a = =3D good example of performing STARTTLS in a non-plaintext command/response =3D protocol (LDAP), and how simple it can and should be.

I= =3D now see your concern, but RFC2830 provides a great example of a very =3D simple way to extend a protocol to address this issue. This further =3D ensures that the security state (secure vs. not) is integrated within =3D the protocol, so the protocol itself can disable commands if needed when = =3D security isn't available.

FWIW, Section 7 of RFC2595 = =3D gives a good summary of reasons why using a separate security port =3D should be discouraged.

Joe


STARTTLS is directly applicable to communication protocols
based on plain-text command/response protocols. PCEP does not = =3D follow
this model, so STARTTLS should become a new message = =3D or an object in the
Open message. Both options imply =3D changes in the PCEP protocol that look
more complex than = =3D the suggested mechanism (or a dedicated port, if you
pay = =3D attention to the discussion shared in the original message by Qin)



Be goode,

Joe


Be goode,

On= 28 =3D Jun 2014, at 06:35 , Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote:

Hi,
<= br =3D class=3D3D"">On 6/24/2014 4:03 AM, Qin Wu wrote:
Hi, Joe:
Sorry for late reply.=

Authors have been discussing a mechanism to = =3D enable secure PCEP via
TLS without making changes to the = =3D current PCEP protocol or state
machine.
Since having a separate port has been discouraged, we suggest = =3D the
? following approach based on discovery = =3D mechanisms or configuration and
initial transport security assessment by the peer.

1) A PCE (given a combination of IP address = =3D and port) only supports
one type of connection, either TLS = =3D or not.

I'm not sure why that= =3D needs to be the case, given STARTTLS.

Note that a different= =3D IP
address SHOULD be used for supporting both and will be = =3D considered as
different PCEs.
= I don't quite understand this. Different IP addresses should = =3D be different PCEs anyway. If you want to support both encrypted and =3D non-encrypted, why not use the existing TLS mechanism for that - =3D STARTTLS?

2) The PCC MAY discover whether the PCE is willing to =3D connect,
requires TLS or not via any of the discovery =3D mechanisms.

That seems =3D reasonable, but doesn't answer why a PCE needs to support only one type =3D of connection. The discovery could indicate "either" and let the client =3D decide, e.g., if both are supported (again, via STARTTLS)

3) W= hen =3D connecting to a PCE that enforces TLS, the PCC MUST start a
TLS connection prior to any exchange of PCEP messages.

Isn't that already what happens = =3D if TLS-only is used?

Any PCEP message
received out = of =3D an appropriate TLS context will be rejected by the PCE
with= =3D a PCErr (Error-Type=3D3D1, Error-value=3D3D3, TLV identifying the need =3D for
TLS) message. [Existing error message, new TLV]

If non-TLS connections are =3D rejected, then there shouldn't be any such messages seen AFAICT. I.e., =3D that would be a TLS port that is configured to not support STARTTLS.

4) I= f a =3D PCC attempts to start a TLS connection with a PCE without
success, it MAY attempt a further connection attempt without = =3D TLS on a
different IP address if known, though that could = =3D imply a security
degradation.
= I don't understand why a different address would be =3D considered degraded access to the same PCE. That seems like a different =3D PCE, as noted above.

If you want to suppor= t =3D degraded (non-secure) access, why not just support STARTTLS?

Seve= ral =3D flows become possible this way, and discovery can be used to
simplify them but it is not essential for them = =3D to work. Let's consider them

* With discovery (or config)
= 1.- =3D PCC learn via discovery that the desired PCE require TLS.
2.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake
3.- PCEP exchange within TLS context

Makes sense.
---
1= .- =3D PCC learn via discovery that the desired PCE does not use TLS.
2.- PCC initiates TCP connection
3.- PCEP =3D exchange over TCP

Makes =3D sense.

*=3D Without discovery - PCE requiring TLS
1.- PCC initiates = =3D TCP connection and TLS handshake

Wouldn't the TLS handshake here fail? Why would the rest of = =3D the exchange occur?

2.- PCEP exchange within TLS context
---
1.- PCC initiates TCP connection and attempts a PCEP OPEN =3D message
2.- PCE rejects the message with a PCErr message = =3D (Error-Type=3D3D1, Error-value=3D3D3, TLV identifying the need for =3D TLS(optionally))
3.- PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS = =3D handshake
4.- PCEP exchange within TLS context

(see issue above)
* Without discovery = - =3D PCE not requiring TLS
1.- PCC initiates TCP connection
2.- PCEP exchange over TCP
---
1.- =3D PCC initiates TCP connection and TLS handshake

Why is this even attempted?

2.- = No =3D TLS context established with PCE or error message received
(optionally)
3.- PCC initiates TCP =3D connection
4.- PCEP exchange over TCP

What do you think of this approach?

Also we like to point a related discussion happened on UTA =3D mailing list:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uta/current/msg00423.html= <=3D /a>

Those points were raised = =3D on the TSVWG list too, but fail to address the key issue - insecure =3D ports are insecure. Regardless of how many ports we allocate, it's no =3D longer clear we should continue to deploy new insecure services on the =3D Internet.

Joe


Rega= rds,Authors
-----=3DE9=3D82=3DAE=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6= =3DE5=3D8E=3D9F=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3D -----
=3DE5=3D8F=3D91=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3DE4=3DBA=3DBA: Joe To= uch [mailto:touch@isi.edu]
=3DE5=3D8F=3D91=3DE9=3D80=3D81=3DE6=3D97=3DB6=3DE9=3D97=3DB4: = 2014=3DE5=3DB9=3DB43=3DE6=3D9C=3D8813=3D =3DE6=3D97=3DA5 23:58
=3DE6=3D94=3DB6=3DE4=3DBB=3DB6=3DE4= =3DBA=3DBA: Qin Wu; Diego =3D R. Lopez; tcpm@ietf.org
=3DE6=3D8A=3D84=3DE9=3D80=3D= 81: draft-ietf-pce-pceps@tools.ietf.org
=3DE4= =3DB8=3DBB=3D =3DE9=3DA2=3D98: Re: [tcpm] Looking for advice on a draft from the PCE work= ing =3D group

Hi, Qin,

On 3/13/2014 3:35 AM, Qin Wu wrote:
Hi, Joe:

It i= s =3D still not clear to me when we choose the same port and when we
choose the different port if we apply TLS to different =3D protocols,

It's simple to =3D determine:

     -= =3D if you designed your service before STARTTLS, then you needed
     a separate port
=      - if you are designing your =3D port now, you don't

Take SMTP, POP3,IMAP as examples:
...
It looks to me when we apply SSL to SMTP,POP3,IMAP, then =3D SMTP, POP3
and IMAP with SSL =3D support(i.e.,SMTPS,POP3S,IMAPS)

Will =3D usually choose the different ports.

The = =3D same rule above is also applied to HTTP when we apply SSL to
HTTP(i.e., HTTPS).

All of the above are good examples of the first part of the = =3D rule.

Note that we have other assignments = =3D that now would be declined, because we've learned to do better. E.g., =3D there would not be a POP2 or POP3 because we would expect POP to =3D indicate the protocol version in-band. We also no longer assign multiple = =3D names for the same service, as was done for http/www, nor do we now =3D assign multiple ports for the same service (80, 8080), nor do we now =3D assign ports for development purposes  (http-dev).
We've learned to do better.

J= oe


8<=3DE2=3D80=3D94<= /div>

So we decided to go = =3D STARTTLS a-la-LDAP, so to say. 

Minor Issues:

* Section 3.3: "A RECOMMENDED value for StartTLSWait timer is = =3D 60
seconds." This seems like a very long time to wait for = =3D an initial reply
on an already-established TCP =3D connection.

This value was proposed to be of the order of =3D magnitude of the KeepAlive PCEP timer (recommended to be of 30 seconds =3D in RFC 5440) Since the StartTLS message is required to happen before any = =3D other message, it is not possible to rely on the timer negotiation =3D during the Open message exchange. I agree the value looks very long, and = =3D we are open to any suggestion on this, either as recommending a concrete = =3D value or by recommending an interval (between 5 and 30 secs?)

* = =3D Section 3.2, fifth paragraph (beginning with "A PCEP speaker
receiving..."):

This paragrap= h =3D states: "A PCEP speaker receiving any other message apart
from StartTLS, open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected = =3D message..."

As written this is confusing = =3D and seems to imply that no other PCEP
messages can ever be = =3D sent. It looks like this is meant to be scoped to
the =3D context of the first message sent/received on session initiation?

You are = =3D completely right. It should read: =3DE2=3D80=3D9CA PCEP speaker receiving a= s =3D first message any other message apart
from =3D StartTLS, Open, or PCErr MUST treat it as an unexpected =3D message=3DE2=3D80=3DA6"

It is correct= ed in =3D the new version I am editing right now.

* Section 8.6

The subsection titles of Section 8 have been taken from =3D Section 8 of RFC
5440, but Section 8.6 here is called =3D "Impact on Network Operations"
while in RFC 5440 it's =3D called "Impact on Network Operation". Funnily
enough, that = =3D final "s" makes a difference. Without it, the section
refer= s=3D to an impact on the functioning of the network itself. With it,
it would usually be taken to refer to impact on human =3D operations and
management procedures.

It looks correct to say that the mechanism of this draft =3D should not
significantly impact the functioning of the =3D network. On the other hand,
it certainly does impact =3D operations and management procedures, as staff
have to =3D develop policies around security requirements for PCEP within
the organization, methods for verifying whether device =3D security
parameters are configured correctly, checking for = =3D unexpected downgrades
to insecure sessions, etc. It would = =3D be an improvement for the document
to address the impact = =3D of PCEPS on operational processes.

I believe = =3D all these operational policy aspects are discussed in the other =3D subsections of section 8, and therefore making a explicit mention to =3D them under 8.6 would be enough. BTW, in order to be consistent to RFC =3D 5440 I have deleted the =3DE2=3D80=3D9Cs=3DE2=3D80=3D9D in the title of the= =3D section...

Nits:

Sec 3= .1, =3D first paragraph:
OLD
   The= =3D steps involved in the PCEPS establishment consists of following
   successive steps:
NEW
   The steps involved in establishing a PCEPS = =3D session are as follows:
END

Corrected.

Sec =3D 3.4, Step 3:
s/Any attempt of initiate a TLS/Any attempt = =3D to initiate a TLS/

Corrected as well.

Be goode,

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica = =3D I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel: =3D    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

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DQpJIHdpbGwgbWFrZSBhbGwgY29uc2lzdGVudCwgYW5kIHVzZSBMU1IgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBub2Rl Lg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNClNhbWkNCj4gDQo+Tml0czogDQo+Ti9BDQo+IA0KPlJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ UGF0cmljZSBCcmlzc2V0dGUNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCg== From nobody Sun May 14 19:20:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EEF0129C34; Sun, 14 May 2017 19:20:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KVgpcCUent7j; Sun, 14 May 2017 19:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCAABUaawAAa3iuMA== Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 02:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.194.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.59190F7E.00E7, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.58, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: ae894308fcd24fd05cb5daea5fe4789f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 02:20:53 -0000 SGkgUmFoZXNoLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIG15IGNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCB0aGUg cXVpY2sgdXBkYXRlcyENCg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlZSBteSByZXBseSBpbmxpbmUuLi4NCg0KPiAtLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBSYWtlc2ggR2FuZGhpIChyZ2FuZGhpKSBb bWFpbHRvOnJnYW5kaGlAY2lzY28uY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBTYXR1cmRheSwgTWF5IDEzLCAyMDE3 IDU6NDcgQU0NCj4gVG86IE1hY2ggQ2hlbiA8bWFjaC5jaGVuQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+OyBydGctYWRz QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IENjOiBydGctZGlyQGlldGYub3JnOyBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXRlYXMtZ21wbHMt bHNwLWZhc3RyZXJvdXRlQGlldGYub3JnOw0KPiB0ZWFzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBSdGdEaXIgcmV2aWV3OiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXRlYXMtZ21wbHMtbHNwLWZhc3RyZXJvdXRlLTA3 LnR4dA0KPiANCj4gSGkgTWFjaCwgV0csDQo+IA0KPiBVcGRhdGVkIGRvY3VtZW50IHRoYXQgYWRk cmVzc2VzIHRoZSBjb21tZW50cyBjYW4gYmUgZm91bmQgYXQ6DQo+IA0KPiBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xz 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XCH-RCD-018.cisco.com (xch-rcd-018.cisco.com [173.37.102.28]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v4FCQo7A002928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 May 2017 12:26:50 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-RCD-018.cisco.com (173.37.102.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 15 May 2017 07:26:49 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 15 May 2017 07:26:49 -0500 From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" To: Mach Chen , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCAABUaawAAa3iuMAAX10yA Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:26:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1d.0.161209 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <6A6220C3E894BC43ACF864F12C4A98C8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:31:32 -0000 SGkgTWFjaCwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMuIA0KDQpVcGRhdGVkIHRoZSBk cmFmdCBhY2NvcmRpbmdseSBhbmQgY2FuIGJlIGZvdW5kIGF0Og0KDQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAg 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Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 15 May 2017 16:02:52 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-007.cisco.com (xch-rtp-007.cisco.com [64.101.220.147]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v4FG2pL4006023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 15 May 2017 16:02:52 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) by XCH-RTP-007.cisco.com (64.101.220.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 15 May 2017 12:02:51 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 15 May 2017 12:02:51 -0400 From: "Patrice Brissette (pbrisset)" To: Sami Boutros , Min Ye , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "pals@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw-02 Thread-Index: AQHSzZS0GfuQJeqMNUWBoX3pZMCpIw== Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:02:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149446531632.16715.2861233468294466753@ietfa.amsl.com> <89E173B8-3C03-4B4A-A405-F0442B983D7F@vmware.com> In-Reply-To: <89E173B8-3C03-4B4A-A405-F0442B983D7F@vmware.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.21.0.170409 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.221.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <22C5271AC015914A98A7AE7582165054@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:07:21 -0000 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACC8129C4A; Mon, 15 May 2017 18:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pvv0ZbgYWnmt; Mon, 15 May 2017 18:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 367C9129BAD; Mon, 15 May 2017 18:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DGR43289; Tue, 16 May 2017 01:17:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.38) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 16 May 2017 02:17:54 +0100 Received: from DGGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.58]) by DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::fca6:7568:4ee3:c776%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 16 May 2017 09:17:49 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" , "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCAABUaawAAa3iuMAAX10yAABjRMXA= Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 01:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: 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"teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt Thread-Index: AdLK+gfIqIAOQbYnRBmcL0Kch3fKmAAIzWCAABUaawAAa3iuMAAX10yAABjRMXAAAjZ2AA== Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 01:20:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3E02BB19-3F7E-4A65-A72F-5FC77C08B483@cisco.com> References: <846F8191-581F-4193-AA28-AB178CD2EE8B@cisco.com> <0D96224E-C123-4434-8309-CB7E984CCB1D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1d.0.161209 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.86.249.143] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-lsp-fastreroute-07.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , 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h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uDIShUAIv32qUL0X2ovq72NJsbtFJYtrJUSDTNuTamA=; b=sGjqDqS7ASBRTyIrgw4HY42tP+PialdqIqtgJxdMAnsQeBBXWv/u4lQgQPFtgbrC68 G9TOj/H+G8AYlacKuJGU27FMT4CxbtiFMOtAR1vjuw+oppy1LWe7aiUInMeQ2pojLovi mqozLGEvdlkP3WBKY5JOo4k5LjRNHScXDF88IuU/wiTI2LuOsmkWm21/kDIpeXGOCH1l 4AHsPblKcXu6XxGiU7urUpxla8xvI5mCM+Xp8F9GoW9+xYHOZjtoNmCTC30baZbCfCj6 juV4op5JheVMA7G+O3alD+nVM9U5RkTZ4SHIOoNmB64Fk4mVba+jHHPzXLMUsCGWAQTT K7vA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uDIShUAIv32qUL0X2ovq72NJsbtFJYtrJUSDTNuTamA=; b=OgAUpGSepdIajxnFobt/vkZsRzTW5fK46ZkbQ5ZjFhJMKiUh7fWiC7mk2vNVTGdbHM jQ8BBHYFLYVglmAr9NzALqf44IoP4cVggfOvG5Om0yupqIu6HoCFHvZ+51a/7n2MHRYg jhMh64ZiBb5lj4fjSRF2HYbtr8zcfn5Oy6KyIaUliKjSNDLdOmOnDqodPgSID+rpdpie IQ0GdY3sYomBMSj+/wpiKu7FXuZES+OAUjAjQJLMT7ShMavWBcbVlROCYBRT7OHfunr0 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text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-lisp-sec-12 Reviewer: Manav Bhatia Review Date: 17/05/2017 IETF LC End Date: Unknown Intended Status: Experimental Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: The draft describes the protocol mechanisms to secure LISP messages to provide origin authentication, integrity and anti-replay protection. The draft is very well written and readable even for someone who had never read LISP documents before. Major Issues: None Minor Issues: 1. All one time keys are exchanged by encrypting those using preconfigured shared keys (PSKs). This is done for messages exchanged between ITR and the MapResolver and the ETR and the Map-Server. Given that the entire security of the LISP domain falls on the PSK I found it rather strange that the authors have not spent any time discussing on the crypto life cycle of the PSKs. I would like to see some discussion on whether the PSKs should be long lived and need to be changed or whether they exist till eternity. I would presume that they should have a limited lifetime and may need to be changed when an operator who had access to them leaves. It can be argued that the user will never even know if an attacker has compromised the key if it remains "passive" till the d-day. Frequent key changes will limit potential damage from compromised keys. Another threat against the long-lived key is that one of the systems storing the key, or one of the users entrusted with the key, could get subverted. So, while there may not be cryptographic motivations of changing the keys, there could be system security motivations for rolling the key. 2. Has the WG considered using a Key Management protocol to dynamically distribute the keys, instead of using the PSKs? Can the authors add some text around that? 3. I am afraid I dont see how the messages are protected against the replay attacks. Thanks, Manav --001a113d343089c777054fb43f42 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Director= ate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all ro= uting or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IES= G review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to= provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Rout= ing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir<= br>
Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs= , it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF = Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through dis= cussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-lisp-sec-12
Reviewer: Manav Bhatia

Review Date: 17/05/2017
IETF LC End = Date: Unknown
Intended Status: Experimental

Summary:

I hav= e some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved b= efore publication.

Comments:

The draft describes the protocol= mechanisms to secure LISP messages to provide origin authentication, integ= rity and anti-replay protection. The draft is very well written and readabl= e even for someone who had never read LISP documents before.

Major I= ssues:

None

Minor Issues:

1. All one time keys are exc= hanged by encrypting those using preconfigured shared keys (PSKs).=C2=A0 Th= is is done for messages exchanged between ITR and the MapResolver and the E= TR and the Map-Server. Given that the entire security of the LISP domain fa= lls on the PSK I found it rather strange that the authors have not spent an= y time discussing on the crypto life cycle of the PSKs. I would like to see= some discussion on whether the PSKs should be long lived and need to be ch= anged or whether they exist till eternity. I would presume that they should= have a limited lifetime and may need to be changed when an operator who ha= d access to them leaves. It can be argued that the user will never even kno= w if an attacker has compromised the key if it remains "passive" = till the d-day. Frequent key changes will limit potential damage from compr= omised keys.

Another threat against the long-lived key is that one o= f the systems storing the key, or one of the users entrusted with the key, = could get subverted. So, while there may not be cryptographic motivations o= f changing the keys, there could be system security motivations for rolling= the key.

2. Has the WG considered using a Key Management protocol t= o dynamically distribute the keys, instead of using the PSKs? Can the autho= rs add some text around that?

3. I am afraid I dont see how the mess= ages are protected against the replay attacks.

Thank= s, Manav
--001a113d343089c777054fb43f42-- From nobody Wed May 17 02:22:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C8112EABC; Wed, 17 May 2017 02:22:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Min Ye To: Cc: ospf@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.51.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149501293882.6715.9441857001639471954@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 02:22:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-14 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:22:19 -0000 Reviewer: IJsbrand Wijnands Review result: Has Issues Hi All, I have been selected to do a routing directorate QA review of this draft. https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-14.txt Summary: This draft proposes a new addressing (TLV) format to more easily allow additional information to be added as part of a particular LSA. Overall, well written, easy to understand what the objective is for this draft. Comments and Questions: This looks like a pretty radical change to the OSPFv3 spec. I would almost argue to call it OSPFv4.. Its very unfortunate there are no ‘reserved’ fields in RFC5340 that would allow you keep the existing LSA’s format and have some way to extend it differently. The TLV approach look good, I can’t see a better way to achieve the goal. Minor Issues and Nits: none. Thx, Ice. From nobody Wed May 17 05:12:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ADC612422F; Wed, 17 May 2017 05:12:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hukVHWzVWVzf; Wed, 17 May 2017 05:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 709E5126C23; 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17 May 2017 12:07:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v4HC73UB023271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 May 2017 12:07:04 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:07:03 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 17 May 2017 08:07:03 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Min Ye , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" CC: "ospf@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Rtgdir early review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-14 Thread-Index: AQHSzu8WdJCLcbGHPk6KfFYvglZsraH4bkGA Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 12:07:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149501293882.6715.9441857001639471954@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149501293882.6715.9441857001639471954@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; 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SRVR:BY2PR0201MB1911; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY2PR0201MB1911; x-forefront-prvs: 0310C78181 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39410400002)(39400400002)(39840400002)(39850400002)(39450400003)(377424004)(13464003)(7736002)(122556002)(305945005)(38730400002)(33656002)(3846002)(102836003)(230783001)(7696004)(2501003)(2950100002)(3280700002)(25786009)(53546009)(966005)(3660700001)(5660300001)(2900100001)(189998001)(450100002)(66066001)(9686003)(72206003)(6306002)(99286003)(55016002)(86362001)(50986999)(54356999)(74316002)(76176999)(478600001)(53936002)(229853002)(77096006)(8676002)(2906002)(81166006)(6436002)(8936002)(6506006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR0201MB1911; H:BY2PR0201MB1910.namprd02.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: metaswitch.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 May 2017 15:21:30.1257 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9d9e56eb-f613-4ddb-b27b-bfcdf14b2cdb X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY2PR0201MB1911 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] FW: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:26:42 -0000 This new version of the stateful PCE draft resolves the comments received d= uring IETF last call. Thanks for your patience! Best regards Jon -----Original Message----- From: Pce [mailto:pce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.o= rg Sent: 17 May 2017 15:47 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: pce@ietf.org Subject: [Pce] I-D Action: draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Path Computation Element of the IETF. Title : PCEP Extensions for Stateful PCE Authors : Edward Crabbe Ina Minei Jan Medved Robert Varga Filename : draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2017-05-17 Abstract: The Path Computation Element Communication Protocol (PCEP) provides mechanisms for Path Computation Elements (PCEs) to perform path computations in response to Path Computation Clients (PCCs) requests. Although PCEP explicitly makes no assumptions regarding the information available to the PCE, it also makes no provisions for PCE control of timing and sequence of path computations within and across PCEP sessions. This document describes a set of extensions to PCEP to enable stateful control of MPLS-TE and GMPLS LSPs via PCEP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-pce-stateful-pce-19 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Pce mailing list Pce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pce From nobody Wed May 17 18:34:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7F9129461; Wed, 17 May 2017 18:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YqLnq8j1cTD1; Wed, 17 May 2017 18:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 977B9129455; Wed, 17 May 2017 18:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DNG38751; Thu, 18 May 2017 01:34:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 18 May 2017 02:34:25 +0100 Received: from DGGEML509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.14]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 18 May 2017 09:34:20 +0800 From: "Yemin (Amy)" To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" CC: "ospf@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Rtgdir early review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-14 Thread-Index: AQHSzwYeJ6QO1mB4GE+TPaqcTtLKAaH5Ty+A Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 01:34:20 +0000 Message-ID: <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC6BA7F39@dggeml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <149501293882.6715.9441857001639471954@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.169.31.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.591CFA23.0007, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.14, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: d43c34b6ff31f284a66ccc5f19666669 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early review of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend-14 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing 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<8AFB87E434798C4DB6376C37FEE4C646@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-pals-p2mp-pw-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:50:21 -0000 VGhhbmsgU2FtaQ0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KUGF0cmljZSBCcmlzc2V0dGUNCg0KT24gMjAxNy0wNS0x OCwgMTI6MjUgUE0sICJTYW1pIEJvdXRyb3MiIDxzYm91dHJvc0B2bXdhcmUuY29tPiB3cm90ZToN Cg0KICAgIEhpIFBhdHJpY2UsDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgUGxlYXNlIHNl ZSBjb21tZW50cyBpbmxpbmUuDQogICAgDQogICAgPiAgICA+IA0KICAgID4gICAgPkhlcmUgYXJl IG15IOKAnGRldGFpbGVk4oCdIGNvbW1lbnRzOg0KICAgID4gICAgPiANCiAgICA+ICAgID5BYnN0 cmFjdCDigJQgV2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgcGx1cyB2YWx1ZSBvbiB0aGF0IGRyYWZ0PyBObyBjbGVhcg0K ICAgID4gICAgPiANCiAgICA+ICAgID5NYW55IExvbmcgc2VudGVuY2VzIGluIHRoZSB0ZXh0LiB2 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From: To: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" CC: "teas@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-teas-lsp-diversity@ietf.org" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Rtgdir Last Call Review of draft-ietf-teas-lsp-diversity-07 Thread-Index: AdLT1IH+Q/fcjKT6QDCevo44IcFmxA== Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 15:18:34 +0000 Message-ID: <6300_1495552715_592452CB_6300_19911_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31D25785@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A31D25785OPEXCLILM21corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir Last Call Review of draft-ietf-teas-lsp-diversity-07 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 15:18:41 -0000 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(amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: syntax error)" header.d=ipinfusion.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YRtJDpUX0fm3 for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22a.google.com (mail-qt0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D44D5129666 for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id c13so51075361qtc.1 for ; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipinfusion.com; s=google; h=from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:thread-index:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z/CZ8Y5t1fHRVHskDvL4JiyHI8vyA/WGbkxg+xY4EGk=; b=CQZ3fcfMXV3KRC/BYMrXIv/RLgFMZ9JNIgOw9imwuwVG26/7jGBEfOdAkrfRxE8fXA 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MyK3YI5pvDe80/etjrEWm3wnQOT0Qbs0bI3nEp8hixpVa2fiRpDI17WANrp/pg0a4ERGiFPB7YZ NByTtRptPgVjr/CMioGrCPJ2hjunYK1s8nuL7HGAbvpvpAaKrgnUBSAfkONP6hUzXF2C7BvkGRc GwO+mZgfbKfvhDviPT X-Received: by 10.200.14.204 with SMTP id w12mr19170165qti.229.1496068310000; Mon, 29 May 2017 07:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mohammed Umair References: <8FA0B47D-32C0-41D0-BBDD-35F430DC44EE@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGCA568JvJrW7wv57ie05NblKPEFwJ1BxMKArneO88BoCgfV6J2j6FQ Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 20:01:42 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org, trill@ietf.org, Kingston Smiler Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e08228f2c2d80690550aa8c84" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [trill] Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 14:31:52 -0000 --089e08228f2c2d80690550aa8c84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Matthew and Andrew, Could you look at version -04 to see if this resolves your comments? My apologies for taking so long. Regards, Umair *From:* trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew G. Malis *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 12:40 PM *To:* Kingston Smiler *Cc:* Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB); rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org *Subject:* Re: [trill] [RTG-DIR] Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02 Kingston, On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Kingston Smiler wrote: Typically PBB-VPLS is used to avoid exposing the customer MAC in service provider network. In case of TRILL packet over MPLS, already the customer MAC is encapsulated inside the TRILL header. Having said that, do we really need to consider TRILL over PBB-VPLS. PBB (and by extension, PBB-VPLS) is not just used for C-MAC hiding, but also for provider infrastructure scaling, so I would think the answer is yes. Matthew, do you agree? Cheers, Andy -- . --089e08228f2c2d80690550aa8c84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi= Matthew and Andrew,

=C2=A0

Co= uld you look at version -04 to see if this resolves your comments?

My apologies for taking= so long.

=C2= =A0

Regards,

Umair

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

From: trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On B= ehalf Of Andrew G. Malis
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:40 P= M
To: Kingston Smiler
Cc: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB); = rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf-trill-transport-= over-mpls@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [trill] [RTG-DIR] Routing Area Directorate QA revi= ew of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sun, Mar 19, 20= 17 at 4:35 PM, Kingston Smiler <kingstonsmiler@gmail.com> wrote:

<Kingston&g= t;

Typically PBB-VPLS is= used to avoid exposing the customer MAC in service provider network. In ca= se of TRILL packet over MPLS, already the customer MAC is encapsulated insi= de the TRILL header. Having said that, do we really need to consider TRILL = over PBB-VPLS. =C2=A0=C2=A0

</Kingston>=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

PBB (and by extension, PBB-= VPLS) is not just used for C-MAC hiding, but also for provider infrastructu= re scaling, so I would think the answer is yes. Matthew, do you agree?

<= /div>

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Andy

=C2=A0


. --089e08228f2c2d80690550aa8c84-- From nobody Tue May 30 06:55:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E7E12954E; Tue, 30 May 2017 06:55:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stewart Bryant To: Cc: draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop.all@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.52.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149615250349.14821.15412224026719218818@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 06:55:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early review of draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-uloop-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 13:55:03 -0000 Reviewer: Stewart Bryant Review result: Has Issues I have been asked to perform an early review of this document on behalf of the Routing Directorate. Summary: A document on this subject is something that the WG should publish, but I think that there are number of issues that the WG need to discuss and reach consensus on before deciding whether or not they should adopt this draft as a starting point for that work. Major Issues: Before I get into the substance I am surprised that there are no IPR disclosures. In an earlier and related work (draft-francois-segment-routing-ti-lfa-00) there were three IPR disclosures. The work has four basic components, the concept of resolving the problem of P and Q being non-adjacent, the use of SR to solve the non-adjacency, the use of the post convergence path following failure and the applicability of these techniques to an SR network. The first and second points seem of utility in non-SR networks, and so I am surprised that they are not called out as such, in the first case perhaps with consideration to strategically places RSVP tunnels, or binding segments. The issue of mapping repair path to the post convergence path to the something that has always concerned me in this concept. It is true that traffic that always passes through the PLR will experience the properties the authors describe, but not all traffic will pass through the PLR post convergence. The post failure path will be topology dependent, and may take a different path from the point of ingress. I am also concerned that the authors do not discuss the need for loop free convergence, since although traffic going through the repair path will be loop-free, traffic arriving at the PLR might not be. Consider for example a topology fragment that looks like a clock with a router at each minute. Traffic enters at 9 o'clock, leave at 3 o'clock and goes via 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock fails. The routers 9..12 will re-converge at different times and this may give rise to the micro-looping of traffic trying to get to the PLR. A summary of the problem and a pointer to the companion draft may be sufficient. Finally on the basic concept it would be good to state up from whether the proposal is constrained solely to SR networks, or whether the authors believe that the concept is of wider applicability. It see no reason why it would be constrained to only work on SR networks. There is no discussion of multiple failures, nor as far as I can see of failures that are worse than anticipated. This is an important point that needs to be established early. Some methods, (MRT) intrinsically address multiple failures, others (NV) intrinsically exclude them. Simple LFA needs a supervisor to quickly abandon all hope when they occur. In an SR network the paths used are not the shortest paths, they are a collection of shortest paths, so there needs to be some discussion on the interaction between the SR paths and repair paths to consider whether it is unconditionally safe against forwarding loops. It would presumably be so if the authors borrowed the concept of repair addresses rather than normal forwarding addresses from not-via, but I don't think they have done this. There should also be some discussion on the original path constraints that are applicable to the repair. Presumably the ingress node constrained the traffic to go though failed node F for a reason. If the repair is unconstrained that reason could be violated, but this is not discussed in the text. In the Security section you say: The behavior described in this document is internal functionality to a router that result in the ability to guarantee an upper bound on the time taken to restore traffic flow upon the failure of a directly connected link or node. As such no additional security risk is introduced by using the mechanisms proposed in this document. SB> I am not sure that the above is correct. There may be a security reason SB> why a packet was steered along a path which breaks when you use this SB> technique. In the conclusion you say: The mechanism is able to calculate the backup path irrespective of the topology as long as the topology is sufficiently redundant. SB> That is certainly true in classic. I am not sure this is universally SB> true under SR which includes the use of non-shortest path and SB> binding segments. Minor issues: For each destination in the network, TI-LFA prepares a data-plane switch-over to be activated upon detection of the failure of a link used to reach the destination. SB> To make the scaling clearer to the reader, I think you need SB> to make it clear that for each protected link, you determine SB> the repair needed to reach every destination reachable over that SB> link. You sort of say that, but it's a bit hidden. We provide the TI-LFA approach that achieves guaranteed coverage against link, node, and local SRLG failure, in any IGP network, relying on the flexibility of SR. SB> Should that be any SINGLE link.... failure? In the text (and the text that follows) To do so, S applies a "NEXT" operation on Adj(S-F) and then two consecutive "PUSH" operations: first it pushes a node segment for F, and then it pushes a protection list allowing to reach F while bypassing S-F. You need to reference the SR operations. Also you are considering Adj segments, and presumably they were there for a reason, but you do not discuss that. In 5.3.1 and 5.3.2 you have a list of conditions, but do not make it clear whether any or all must be true. Nits 1. Introduction Segment Routing aims at supporting services with tight SLA guarantees [1]. This document provides a local repair mechanism relying on SR-capable of restoring end-to-end connectivity in the case of a sudden failure of a network component. SB> Grammar needs a little work in the last sentence. In Fig 1, I assume that the blobs are network fragments. In the conclusion you say: This document proposes a mechanism that is able to pre-calculate a backup path for every primary path so as to be able to protect against the failure of a directly connected link or node. SB> you need to add SRLG From nobody Tue May 30 08:51:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80BF129A9A; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oz4XkgcAk7-R; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FB081293DB; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id l18so116515816oig.2; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=k/M/RlrZgqryjDtbrnLAbt6YFYg/qkg9TmVg0hcKDTo=; b=Mk6eLokpLyWNE6cussMKvglQflrLqA/cHYYQH1kSCQmYKqZygEUZyApIt1NI2pCb4H olc0pchKkvtFz6bahbLutJcezfDnrWjXaAZXOaO6CeLmw19GjS/b25wP5LJyeiUYNQVZ kdRPsGRptZPwiZNxBxHNQhfHua7IJA01EXG6p16p7UCU6ObiooqSAbACoJLHtWcvDJzj Bk0iSIgFoA+gL7CL1NiiLZHIl0+rQp42VtCcj03FYPb/AZVsGsT7RZJ5zPKgruoSM9zS ayRCmA5SFhxzN2GgIcZ7keXXvCjNkpZBMXkLGIYQ2izKwvM7sjS10zxKkRsU3e8xV6RM abFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=k/M/RlrZgqryjDtbrnLAbt6YFYg/qkg9TmVg0hcKDTo=; b=rfwtT9SyWLG+bTyJiZk6c1UsCU9yGExuwMz1oHypKENV9He7b8OxjlavmNl/oetAEv vL1GCRGqBllJd6Ao93ZIlGoxhLA8GJ6VaoeSAVfgdcnvRsw9o1ofploe2Wj8Bg8wSvW/ J94FfBaGmSUv6belBt/PuP0dOMFQYr96MB6oT5nb0xfLt/VRKJD/FiC0oGCEY5SifX29 z+dAESt41NQo3yNVRX2nIGZgAgA5QNNfbThEOW+xLcEi6dTaoIWDgE7s7nUgCw5y7lwA sLff+RI8Ee8LKf1fqOagWmjrTUPS/dLxFYGnPbRmbzkiohPH3sOL9uIZ8GTrJHsC5UvU h6sA== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDGJw+RFICNkKYC7f5g7jL6S6rGWoQf49lOW0ztfyay12YPhDPV RQMGT+zWeJX0+s3kb1vx1PSCKJn63w== X-Received: by 10.157.37.5 with SMTP id k5mr2061713otb.189.1496159483866; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.38.162 with HTTP; Tue, 30 May 2017 08:51:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8FA0B47D-32C0-41D0-BBDD-35F430DC44EE@nokia.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 11:51:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Mohammed Umair Cc: "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org, "trill@ietf.org" , Kingston Smiler Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1140bda89050650550bfc6a2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] [trill] Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 15:51:26 -0000 --001a1140bda89050650550bfc6a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Umair, You added PBB being out of scope for this document to section 3.4, but it doesn=E2=80=99t say that anywhere else, such as in the introduction or the abstract. Is it really out of scope? The text in section 6 doesn=E2=80=99t scan, the first two sentences should = be joined together by a comma rather than a period and starting a new paragraph. But it still doesn=E2=80=99t make sense to me, because the secon= d part talks about what happens in the VPTS model if there=E2=80=99s a pseudowire = failure, but the first part of the doesn=E2=80=99t say anything about a pseudowire f= ailure in the VPLS model (which, as we noted, doesn=E2=80=99t present a problem if= you=E2=80=99re running spanning tree or H-VPLS with PW redundancy in the VPLS). Cheers, Andy On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Mohammed Umair < mohammed.umair2@ipinfusion.com> wrote: > Hi Matthew and Andrew, > > > > Could you look at version -04 to see if this resolves your comments? > > My apologies for taking so long. > > > > Regards, > > Umair > > > > *From:* trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Andrew G. > Malis > *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2017 12:40 PM > *To:* Kingston Smiler > *Cc:* Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB); rtg-dir@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [trill] [RTG-DIR] Routing Area Directorate QA review of > draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02 > > > > Kingston, > > > > On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Kingston Smiler > wrote: > > > > Typically PBB-VPLS is used to avoid exposing the customer MAC in service > provider network. In case of TRILL packet over MPLS, already the customer > MAC is encapsulated inside the TRILL header. Having said that, do we real= ly > need to consider TRILL over PBB-VPLS. > > > > > > PBB (and by extension, PBB-VPLS) is not just used for C-MAC hiding, but > also for provider infrastructure scaling, so I would think the answer is > yes. Matthew, do you agree? > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > . --001a1140bda89050650550bfc6a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Umair,

You added PBB being out of scope= for this document to section 3.4, but it doesn=E2=80=99t say that anywhere= else, such as in the introduction or the abstract. Is it really out of sco= pe?

The text in section 6 doesn=E2=80=99t scan, th= e first two sentences should be joined together by a comma rather than a pe= riod and starting a new paragraph. But it still doesn=E2=80=99t make sense = to me, because the second part talks about what happens in the VPTS model i= f there=E2=80=99s a pseudowire failure, but the first part of the doesn=E2= =80=99t say anything about a pseudowire failure in the VPLS model (which, a= s we noted, doesn=E2=80=99t present a problem if you=E2=80=99re running spa= nning tree or=C2=A0H-VPLS with PW redundancy in the VPLS).=C2=A0
=
Cheers,
Andy

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Mohammed = Umair <mohammed.umair2@ipinfusion.com> wrote:

Hi Matthew and Andrew,

=C2=A0

Could you look at version -04 to see if t= his resolves your comments?

My apologies for taking so long.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Umair

=C2=A0

From:= trill [mailto:trill-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew= G. Malis
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 12:40 PM
To: Kin= gston Smiler
Cc: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB); rtg-dir@ietf.org; draft-ietf= -trill-transport-over-mpls@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [trill] [R= TG-DIR] Routing Area Directorate QA review of draft-ietf-trill-transport-over-mpls-02

=C2= =A0

Kingston,

=C2=A0

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4= :35 PM, Kingston Smiler <kingstonsmiler@gmail.com> wrote:

<Kingston>

Typically PBB-VPLS is used t= o avoid exposing the customer MAC in service provider network. In case of T= RILL packet over MPLS, already the customer MAC is encapsulated inside the = TRILL header. Having said that, do we really need to consider TRILL over PB= B-VPLS. =C2=A0=C2=A0

<= ;/Kingston>=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2= =A0

PBB (and by extension, PBB-VPLS) i= s not just used for C-MAC hiding, but also for provider infrastructure scal= ing, so I would think the answer is yes. Matthew, do you agree?

=C2=A0

Cheer= s,

Andy

=C2=A0


.

--001a1140bda89050650550bfc6a2-- From nobody Wed May 31 11:35:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91613129AC1; Wed, 31 May 2017 11:35:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stewart Bryant To: Cc: draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.52.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149625574151.19908.2374594318145684422@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 11:35:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [RTG-DIR] Rtgdir early review of draft-bashandy-rtgwg-segment-routing-ti-lfa-00 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 18:35:42 -0000 Reviewer: Stewart Bryant Review result: Has Issues These review comments were incorrectly posted against the uloop draft, apologies for any confustion. I have been asked to perform an early review of this document on behalf of the Routing Directorate. Summary: A document on this subject is something that the WG should publish, but I think that there are number of issues that the WG need to discuss and reach consensus on before deciding whether or not they should adopt this draft as a starting point for that work. Major Issues: Before I get into the substance I am surprised that there are no IPR disclosures. In an earlier and related work (draft-francois-segment-routing-ti-lfa-00) there were three IPR disclosures. The work has four basic components, the concept of resolving the problem of P and Q being non-adjacent, the use of SR to solve the non-adjacency, the use of the post convergence path following failure and the applicability of these techniques to an SR network. The first and second points seem of utility in non-SR networks, and so I am surprised that they are not called out as such, in the first case perhaps with consideration to strategically places RSVP tunnels, or binding segments. The issue of mapping repair path to the post convergence path to the something that has always concerned me in this concept. It is true that traffic that always passes through the PLR will experience the properties the authors describe, but not all traffic will pass through the PLR post convergence. The post failure path will be topology dependent, and may take a different path from the point of ingress. I am also concerned that the authors do not discuss the need for loop free convergence, since although traffic going through the repair path will be loop-free, traffic arriving at the PLR might not be. Consider for example a topology fragment that looks like a clock with a router at each minute. Traffic enters at 9 o'clock, leave at 3 o'clock and goes via 12 o'clock and 12 o'clock fails. The routers 9..12 will re-converge at different times and this may give rise to the micro-looping of traffic trying to get to the PLR. A summary of the problem and a pointer to the companion draft may be sufficient. Finally on the basic concept it would be good to state up from whether the proposal is constrained solely to SR networks, or whether the authors believe that the concept is of wider applicability. It see no reason why it would be constrained to only work on SR networks. There is no discussion of multiple failures, nor as far as I can see of failures that are worse than anticipated. This is an important point that needs to be established early. Some methods, (MRT) intrinsically address multiple failures, others (NV) intrinsically exclude them. Simple LFA needs a supervisor to quickly abandon all hope when they occur. In an SR network the paths used are not the shortest paths, they are a collection of shortest paths, so there needs to be some discussion on the interaction between the SR paths and repair paths to consider whether it is unconditionally safe against forwarding loops. It would presumably be so if the authors borrowed the concept of repair addresses rather than normal forwarding addresses from not-via, but I don't think they have done this. There should also be some discussion on the original path constraints that are applicable to the repair. Presumably the ingress node constrained the traffic to go though failed node F for a reason. If the repair is unconstrained that reason could be violated, but this is not discussed in the text. In the Security section you say: The behavior described in this document is internal functionality to a router that result in the ability to guarantee an upper bound on the time taken to restore traffic flow upon the failure of a directly connected link or node. As such no additional security risk is introduced by using the mechanisms proposed in this document. SB> I am not sure that the above is correct. There may be a security reason SB> why a packet was steered along a path which breaks when you use this SB> technique. In the conclusion you say: The mechanism is able to calculate the backup path irrespective of the topology as long as the topology is sufficiently redundant. SB> That is certainly true in classic. I am not sure this is universally SB> true under SR which includes the use of non-shortest path and SB> binding segments. Minor issues: For each destination in the network, TI-LFA prepares a data-plane switch-over to be activated upon detection of the failure of a link used to reach the destination. SB> To make the scaling clearer to the reader, I think you need SB> to make it clear that for each protected link, you determine SB> the repair needed to reach every destination reachable over that SB> link. You sort of say that, but it's a bit hidden. We provide the TI-LFA approach that achieves guaranteed coverage against link, node, and local SRLG failure, in any IGP network, relying on the flexibility of SR. SB> Should that be any SINGLE link.... failure? In the text (and the text that follows) To do so, S applies a "NEXT" operation on Adj(S-F) and then two consecutive "PUSH" operations: first it pushes a node segment for F, and then it pushes a protection list allowing to reach F while bypassing S-F. You need to reference the SR operations. Also you are considering Adj segments, and presumably they were there for a reason, but you do not discuss that. In 5.3.1 and 5.3.2 you have a list of conditions, but do not make it clear whether any or all must be true. Nits 1. Introduction Segment Routing aims at supporting services with tight SLA guarantees [1]. This document provides a local repair mechanism relying on SR-capable of restoring end-to-end connectivity in the case of a sudden failure of a network component. SB> Grammar needs a little work in the last sentence. In Fig 1, I assume that the blobs are network fragments. In the conclusion you say: This document proposes a mechanism that is able to pre-calculate a backup path for every primary path so as to be able to protect against the failure of a directly connected link or node. SB> you need to add SRLG