From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Mon Jun 12 21:33:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20311270A7 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:33:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.805 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.805 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.439, STOX_REPLY_TYPE_WITHOUT_QUOTES=1.757, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5WtcSip5l3Dx for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F259C1200F1 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 4225084DE3; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 04:33:15 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id E6FDC84D7F; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 04:33:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B870984D7F for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 03:54:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id r2QMavsp8AFc for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 03:54:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40A2B84CDD for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 03:54:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=denisbider.com; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding; bh=82b06YWIixWLA45b0FMs8hhWlV1mPFEXdjVWrmBn3C4=; b=tbrZC2x+dc6JGxBCE64WcnONNEosYwBQMVZe7353Y/ebJlAFurKEXhEWKwA1+LfrzjOHdrgSpUBy2 W6tr0mo65jccvjFjCR2jeEitGhyVh55Zow6IwGlZe3OBHa6XlSO5P+fnq18boCTwtfXQkQmbyPodHx lBqYMXNkZwz/XUfs+Juq0FEH66plkbOcEKnXBILD94CByA02bsH4XWpThcHHmcDDs8Da++YYYY5t25 2Qlu73K2TsBohavJQ8iydG4Ub7moB9qb3DxyhcxIXvqeoEOEM/Qzv1gKOIBHf3rPqYaPFNSyCzw+dO ow/oUYzpObS5PS5ymNELP/x1nds7T0g== X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com with ESMTPSA (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Tue, 13 Jun 2017 04:53:41 +0100 Message-ID: From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" To: Cc: "Markus Friedl" , Subject: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:53:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: Bad news, everyone. Again - there’s a bug in OpenSSH that’s now widely deployed, and will require workarounds to coexist with. OpenSSH implements EXT_INFO. Excellent. Very nice. I'm grateful. Thank you. But it does so incorrectly. Suppose that a server sends the "delay-compression" extension to an OpenSSH client. The client disconnects, without attempting to authenticate, as soon as it sees the extension's encoding. It disconnects due to this choice of function in kex_input_ext_info: if ((r = sshpkt_get_cstring(ssh, &val, NULL)) != 0) { free(name); return r; } This is an incorrect function to use for the extension value, because it contains the following logic: /* Allow a \0 only at the end of the string */ if (len > 0 && (z = memchr(p , '\0', len)) != NULL && z < p + len - 1) { SSHBUF_DBG(("SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT")); return SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT; } THIS IS NOT CORRECT LOGIC TO USE WHEN PROCESSING AN UNKNOWN EXTENSION VALUE, OF UNKNOWN FORMAT, WHERE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WON'T CONTAIN ZEROS! The value for the “delay-compression” extension, in particular, contains zeros. The whole extension is defined as follows: string "delay-compression" string: name-list compression_algorithms_client_to_server name-list compression_algorithms_server_to_client Obviously, the lengths of both name-lists will have zeros, which will appear right at the start of the value. So we implement an extension mechanism - and once again, it cannot be used with OpenSSH, because it deploys a fundamentally botched implementation. Remember - the reason this "delay-compression" extension exists IN THE FIRST PLACE is that OpenSSH botched its delayed compression; designing it with a built-in, unescapable race condition. God dammit, guys. God dammit. What should I do with this? Not send "delay-compression" to OpenSSH versions up to 7.5? Or not send it to ANY OpenSSH version? denis From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Jun 15 10:19:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA53C126DFB for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:19:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kL-SH1UB49nF for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 470511293EB for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id EC2A68559B; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:19:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 9C90785594; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:19:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC04E84DE8 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:17:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id GLJ9cadH-dZA for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:17:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from newmailhub.uq.edu.au (mailhub2.soe.uq.edu.au [130.102.132.209]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A376484C6C for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:17:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au (smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au [10.138.113.40]) by newmailhub.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5DBBj1I002594; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:45 +1000 Received: from mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (holly.eait.uq.edu.au [130.102.79.58]) by smtp1.soe.uq.edu.au (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5DBBjur044232 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:45 +1000 Received: from natsu.mindrot.org (natsu.mindrot.org [130.102.96.2]) by mailhub.eait.uq.edu.au (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPS id v5DBBiYf003068 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 78A07A4F38; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by natsu.mindrot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AEEA4F37; Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:44 +1000 (AEST) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2017 21:11:44 +1000 (AEST) From: Damien Miller To: "denis bider (Bitvise)" cc: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org, Markus Friedl Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSO 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="0-1608668139-1497352304=:76321" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.73 on UQ Mailhub X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.75 on 130.102.79.58 X-UQ-FilterTime: 1497352306 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1608668139-1497352304=:76321 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Yes, this is a bug in OpenSSH. Yes, we'll fix it for 7.6. Yes, your attitude and approach stinks. On Mon, 12 Jun 2017, denis bider (Bitvise) wrote: > Bad news, everyone. > > Again - there’s a bug in OpenSSH that’s now widely deployed, and will require > workarounds to coexist with. > > OpenSSH implements EXT_INFO. Excellent. Very nice. I'm grateful. Thank you. > > But it does so incorrectly. > > Suppose that a server sends the "delay-compression" extension to an OpenSSH > client. > > The client disconnects, without attempting to authenticate, as soon as it sees > the extension's encoding. > > It disconnects due to this choice of function in kex_input_ext_info: > > > if ((r = sshpkt_get_cstring(ssh, &val, NULL)) != 0) { > free(name); > return r; > } > > > This is an incorrect function to use for the extension value, because it > contains the following logic: > > > /* Allow a \0 only at the end of the string */ > if (len > 0 && > (z = memchr(p , '\0', len)) != NULL && z < p + len - 1) { > SSHBUF_DBG(("SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT")); > return SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT; > } > > > THIS IS NOT CORRECT LOGIC TO USE WHEN PROCESSING AN UNKNOWN EXTENSION VALUE, > OF UNKNOWN FORMAT, WHERE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WON'T CONTAIN ZEROS! > > The value for the “delay-compression” extension, in particular, contains > zeros. > > The whole extension is defined as follows: > > > string "delay-compression" > string: > name-list compression_algorithms_client_to_server > name-list compression_algorithms_server_to_client > > > Obviously, the lengths of both name-lists will have zeros, which will appear > right at the start of the value. > > So we implement an extension mechanism - and once again, it cannot be used > with OpenSSH, because it deploys a fundamentally botched implementation. > > Remember - the reason this "delay-compression" extension exists IN THE FIRST > PLACE is that OpenSSH botched its delayed compression; designing it with a > built-in, unescapable race condition. > > God dammit, guys. God dammit. > > What should I do with this? > > Not send "delay-compression" to OpenSSH versions up to 7.5? > > Or not send it to ANY OpenSSH version? > > denis > > > --0-1608668139-1497352304=:76321-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Jun 15 10:22:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BA5129329 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yJSWrbusZuvy for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0088126D73 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id E7B058559B; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:22:08 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 94AE385594; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:22:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341F084DB5 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:44:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id xTCBO6Pcni9A for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:44:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA11084CDA for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:44:27 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=denisbider.com; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to: references; bh=O5L8fCH10+BsmIrfKqFmKEippN6dyRbEOdqgITVieME=; b=TKAtYUiAAyKS8rJAagAhmiYevD+tW4YxjJRHtvEhn0qTRzjzPaeKH5/mxpxJVZhy/lqCeUblyBSmz BcX9+m/Ujl05+alAg+urcG07xR0L7a+EMbyx4POKCSflucvXkhWuCGqJYvX+Iz27V7ZTEOVsLjTS3l Xtx+pSMpCokHw+CKEWw+77mxdaVzPPX4t2gPhUTNyqHaFz8sVwyScHjBcRbVJvXvmxFkMYLxFVdcy1 mNzAa6+SBR4DAbyfNub6MQk2FcPnb6+qqhzvWM1gfDIjR2RMMBrPPOPFQ2RhWRYWGWYa/Q8XMBXmgI hw8gxx5xmdSvwVfWmThZx8CXvVV0mnw== X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com with ESMTPSA (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:44:10 +0100 Message-ID: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" To: "Damien Miller" Cc: , "Markus Friedl" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 03:43:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_063B_01D2E4C0.6AE85330" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_063B_01D2E4C0.6AE85330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I appreciate the acknowledgment. I will plan accordingly. Thank you! My attitude does stink. I=E2=80=99m afraid this comes from frustration = with your work over the past 17 years. This will seem unfair to you because you value your work on the basis of = what good it does. Your work does a lot of good. It is a security-conscious project, with a = quality of implementation that exceeds at least half of commercial = implementations. It makes a difference in day to day lives for millions = of users. It improves the overall security of the internet. Its open = source nature is a valuable counterweight that helps keep in reign IP = encroachment by commercial implementations. I could be cynical, and say that =E2=80=9Cone gets what one pays = for=E2=80=9D. This would be partly true, in ways you might not be aware = of. But it would also be fundamentally unfair, because the value of your = work is much more than anyone pays. I don=E2=80=99t know about your circumstance. I don=E2=80=99t know if = you are adequately compensated for the work you do by some benevolent = benefactor. It is possible that you are not, and if you=E2=80=99re not, = I consider this a significant unfairness. If this is the case, = it=E2=80=99s an unfairness you have chosen, but it=E2=80=99s unfair = nevertheless. All of this being said =E2=80=93 although I can praise your project in = all these respects, and I can consider it better than a number of = commercial implementations; and although the very fact that I can have this conversation with you is = meaningful, and valuable; it is more than is possible in many cases, and = I do not take it for granted; all of these things being said... I am another implementor who is not part of your project; and therefore = does not have influence. So when you do things in your project that are short-sighted; or are = poorly planned; or do not consider the impact on others; in such cases, = I am impacted. And because I do not have control; my reaction is not =E2=80=9COK, so = this looks like a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. These guys are doing = valuable work for free. The world should be thankful for their = efforts.=E2=80=9D My reaction instead is: =E2=80=9COMG, these open = source developers again, and what passes their threshold for quality = work.=E2=80=9D This is partly unfair, because as I=E2=80=99ve said, your work is = actually better than 50% of commercial implementations. That is without = counting those implementations that are actually ripping off from your = work. :) But I hold you to a higher standard, and that=E2=80=99s not despite your = work being free, but because it is free, and therefore popular. I feel = that with the market position you have, comes great responsibility. And the reason I=E2=80=99m peeved is because I feel that the problem is = not accidental, but systemic. If you participate in an open source = project as long as you do, you=E2=80=99re not just giving the world a = freebie. You are writing the code for a principle. If your aim is to = serve a principle; and your software becomes overwhelmingly popular = because people see and recognize your commitment; then you are also = taking on responsibility. And when you do that, I am then peeved if you simultaneously abrogate = this responsibility, by developing, planning, and designing sloppily. If you=E2=80=99re going to uphold a principle, then uphold a great = principle, dammit. Do excellent work. Don=E2=80=99t be satisfied with = adequate. :) Again, I have no idea how this is experienced on your end. And yes = =E2=80=93 your code is still better than many. And it=E2=80=99s better, and more responsible, and your development = process is more responsive, than commercial companies have been in = similar leading market positions. denis From: Damien Miller=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 05:11 To: denis bider (Bitvise)=20 Cc: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org ; Markus Friedl=20 Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values Yes, this is a bug in OpenSSH. Yes, we'll fix it for 7.6. Yes, your attitude and approach stinks. On Mon, 12 Jun 2017, denis bider (Bitvise) wrote: > Bad news, everyone. >=20 > Again - there=E2=80=99s a bug in OpenSSH that=E2=80=99s now widely = deployed, and will require > workarounds to coexist with. >=20 > OpenSSH implements EXT_INFO. Excellent. Very nice. I'm grateful. Thank = you. >=20 > But it does so incorrectly. >=20 > Suppose that a server sends the "delay-compression" extension to an = OpenSSH > client. >=20 > The client disconnects, without attempting to authenticate, as soon as = it sees > the extension's encoding. >=20 > It disconnects due to this choice of function in kex_input_ext_info: >=20 >=20 > if ((r =3D sshpkt_get_cstring(ssh, &val, NULL)) !=3D 0) { > free(name); > return r; > } >=20 >=20 > This is an incorrect function to use for the extension value, because = it > contains the following logic: >=20 >=20 > /* Allow a \0 only at the end of the string */ > if (len > 0 && > (z =3D memchr(p , '\0', len)) !=3D NULL && z < p + len - 1) { > SSHBUF_DBG(("SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT")); > return SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT; > } >=20 >=20 > THIS IS NOT CORRECT LOGIC TO USE WHEN PROCESSING AN UNKNOWN EXTENSION = VALUE, > OF UNKNOWN FORMAT, WHERE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WON'T CONTAIN ZEROS! >=20 > The value for the =E2=80=9Cdelay-compression=E2=80=9D extension, in = particular, contains > zeros. >=20 > The whole extension is defined as follows: >=20 >=20 > string "delay-compression" > string: > name-list compression_algorithms_client_to_server > name-list compression_algorithms_server_to_client >=20 >=20 > Obviously, the lengths of both name-lists will have zeros, which will = appear > right at the start of the value. >=20 > So we implement an extension mechanism - and once again, it cannot be = used > with OpenSSH, because it deploys a fundamentally botched = implementation. >=20 > Remember - the reason this "delay-compression" extension exists IN THE = FIRST > PLACE is that OpenSSH botched its delayed compression; designing it = with a > built-in, unescapable race condition. >=20 > God dammit, guys. God dammit. >=20 > What should I do with this? >=20 > Not send "delay-compression" to OpenSSH versions up to 7.5? >=20 > Or not send it to ANY OpenSSH version? >=20 > denis >=20 >=20 > ------=_NextPart_000_063B_01D2E4C0.6AE85330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I appreciate the acknowledgment. I will plan accordingly. Thank = you!
 
My attitude does stink. I=E2=80=99m afraid this comes from = frustration with your=20 work over the past 17 years.
 
This will seem unfair to you because you value your work on the = basis of=20 what good it does.
 
Your work does a lot of good. It is a security-conscious project, = with a=20 quality of implementation that exceeds at least half of commercial=20 implementations. It makes a difference in day to day lives for millions = of=20 users. It improves the overall security of the internet. Its open source = nature=20 is a valuable counterweight that helps keep in reign IP encroachment by=20 commercial implementations.
 
I could be cynical, and say that =E2=80=9Cone gets what one pays = for=E2=80=9D. This would=20 be partly true, in ways you might not be aware of. But it would also be=20 fundamentally unfair, because the value of your work is much more than = anyone=20 pays.
 
I don=E2=80=99t know about your circumstance. I don=E2=80=99t know = if you are adequately=20 compensated for the work you do by some benevolent benefactor. It is = possible=20 that you are not, and if you=E2=80=99re not, I consider this a = significant unfairness.=20 If this is the case, it=E2=80=99s an unfairness you have chosen, but = it=E2=80=99s unfair=20 nevertheless.
 
All of this being said =E2=80=93 although I can praise your project = in all these=20 respects, and I can consider it better than a number of commercial=20 implementations;
 
and although the very fact that I can have this conversation with = you is=20 meaningful, and valuable; it is more than is possible in many cases, and = I do=20 not take it for granted;
 
all of these things being said...
 
I am another implementor who is not part of your project; and = therefore=20 does not have influence.
 
So when you do things in your project that are short-sighted; or = are poorly=20 planned; or do not consider the impact on others; in such cases, I am=20 impacted.
 
And because I do not have control; my reaction is not =E2=80=9COK, = so this looks=20 like a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. These guys are doing valuable = work for=20 free. The world should be thankful for their efforts.=E2=80=9D My = reaction instead is:=20 =E2=80=9COMG, these open source developers again, and what passes their = threshold for=20 quality work.=E2=80=9D
 
This is partly unfair, because as I=E2=80=99ve said, your work is = actually better=20 than 50% of commercial implementations. That is without counting those=20 implementations that are actually ripping off from your work. :)
 
But I hold you to a higher standard, and that=E2=80=99s not despite = your work being=20 free, but because it is free, and therefore popular. I feel = that with=20 the market position you have, comes great responsibility.
 
And the reason I=E2=80=99m peeved is because I feel that the = problem is not=20 accidental, but systemic. If you participate in an open source project = as long=20 as you do, you=E2=80=99re not just giving the world a freebie. You are = writing the code=20 for a principle. If your aim is to serve a principle; and your software = becomes=20 overwhelmingly popular because people see and recognize your commitment; = then=20 you are also taking on responsibility.
 
And when you do that, I am then peeved if you simultaneously = abrogate this=20 responsibility, by developing, planning, and designing sloppily.
 
If you=E2=80=99re going to uphold a principle, then uphold a great = principle,=20 dammit. Do excellent work. Don=E2=80=99t be satisfied with adequate. = :)
 
Again, I have no idea how this is experienced on your end. And yes = =E2=80=93 your=20 code is still better than many.
 
And it=E2=80=99s better, and more responsible, and your development = process is more=20 responsive, than commercial companies have been in similar leading = market=20 positions.
 
denis
 
 
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 05:11
Cc: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org ; Markus = Friedl
Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension=20 values
 
Yes,=20 this is a bug in OpenSSH.

Yes, we'll fix it for 7.6.

Yes, = your=20 attitude and approach stinks.

On Mon, 12 Jun 2017, denis bider = (Bitvise)=20 wrote:

> Bad news, everyone.
>
> Again - = there=E2=80=99s a bug in=20 OpenSSH that=E2=80=99s now widely deployed, and will require
> = workarounds to=20 coexist with.
>
> OpenSSH implements EXT_INFO. Excellent. = Very=20 nice. I'm grateful. Thank you.
>
> But it does so=20 incorrectly.
>
> Suppose that a server sends the=20 "delay-compression" extension to an OpenSSH
> client.
> =
> The=20 client disconnects, without attempting to authenticate, as soon as it=20 sees
> the extension's encoding.
>
> It disconnects = due to=20 this choice of function in kex_input_ext_info:
>
>
> = if ((r=20 =3D sshpkt_get_cstring(ssh, &val, NULL)) !=3D 0) = {
>   =20 free(name);
>    return r;
> }
> =
>=20
> This is an incorrect function to use for the extension value, = because=20 it
> contains the following logic:
>
>
> /* = Allow a \0=20 only at the end of the string */
> if (len > 0=20 &&
>    (z =3D memchr(p , '\0', len)) !=3D = NULL=20 && z < p + len - 1) {
>   =20 SSHBUF_DBG(("SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT"));
>    return = SSH_ERR_INVALID_FORMAT;
> }
>
>
> THIS IS NOT = CORRECT=20 LOGIC TO USE WHEN PROCESSING AN UNKNOWN EXTENSION VALUE,
> OF = UNKNOWN=20 FORMAT, WHERE THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IT WON'T CONTAIN ZEROS!
> =
> The=20 value for the =E2=80=9Cdelay-compression=E2=80=9D extension, in = particular, contains
>=20 zeros.
>
> The whole extension is defined as = follows:
>=20
>
> string         = "delay-compression"
> string:
>  = name-list   =20 compression_algorithms_client_to_server
> =20 name-list    = compression_algorithms_server_to_client
>=20
>
> Obviously, the lengths of both name-lists will have = zeros,=20 which will appear
> right at the start of the value.
> =
> So=20 we implement an extension mechanism - and once again, it cannot be = used
>=20 with OpenSSH, because it deploys a fundamentally botched = implementation.
>=20
> Remember - the reason this "delay-compression" extension exists = IN THE=20 FIRST
> PLACE is that OpenSSH botched its delayed compression; = designing=20 it with a
> built-in, unescapable race condition.
>
> = God=20 dammit, guys. God dammit.
>
> What should I do with = this?
>=20
> Not send "delay-compression" to OpenSSH versions up to = 7.5?
>=20
> Or not send it to ANY OpenSSH version?
>
> = denis
>=20
>
>
------=_NextPart_000_063B_01D2E4C0.6AE85330-- From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Jun 15 23:09:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BB5128CFF for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 23:09:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0NeudJKkaUBD for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 23:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BA3D128AFE for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 23:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 9749A84DD6; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 06:09:27 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 533BC84DD1; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 06:09:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B285855AA for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:38:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id m6BxuVwxwK6v for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG [98.124.61.89]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510D184D73 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:38:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23593; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:38:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mouse Message-Id: <201706152038.QAA23593@Stone.Rodents-Montreal.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. X-Message-Flag: Microsoft: the company who gave us the botnet zombies. X-Composition-Start-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:30:55 -0400 (EDT) To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values In-Reply-To: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> References: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: >> Yes, this is a bug in OpenSSH. >> Yes, we'll fix it for 7.6. >> Yes, your attitude and approach stinks. > My attitude does stink. I=E2=80=99m afraid this comes from frustration = > with your work over the past 17 years. > This will seem unfair to you [...] Rarely have I seen more eloquently expressed the frustration and dilemma of a user discovering a problem with a widely-deployed open-source program. And civilly, too, and with full acknowledgement and understanding of the other side of the fence. You, Sir, are an exemplar I wish I were better able to live up to. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Wed Jun 21 11:20:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A9412943B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMhp4SQlPuRf for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA664129468 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 0A4AB855D4; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:21 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C6F84D8D for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id MUGdHEfFcxBG for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02on0723.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe44::723]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B103284D7B for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=njzL2Cz9ubjzxX4oxmYyPp1adg/NX3kO1EYyt2Rf2/I=; b=IsrWh1fjcpAvQRezZwC4Cbva85Vj4i09ZJyDtxdiNslaX8BXB6HE0yFbgLMYrMkaMgofGkWQg8bYfNwvbG6ekHmdTvmNKtH2ABBz5CX5WSE+ytz8J0AXueO4WEuYrSDqRVIAZJb/Ku+s843Y8WWj5OidJmoDiMEdQddSjkvDlDc= Received: from CY1PR05CA0033.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:c5a4::43) by DM2PR0501MB1309.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:3c1b::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1199.6; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:11 +0000 Received: from BY2NAM05FT034.eop-nam05.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7e52::203) by CY1PR05CA0033.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:c5a4::43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1199.6 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:11 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.15) smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=juniper.net; Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.15 as permitted sender) Received: from P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.15) by BY2NAM05FT034.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.100.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1157.20 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:20:11 +0000 Received: from p-mailhub01.juniper.net (10.160.2.17) by P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:06 -0700 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by p-mailhub01.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id v5LIK5Z9028932; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:05 -0700 (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59ED11144E; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:20:05 -0700 (PDT) To: Curdle WG CC: SSH WG , Eric Rescorla From: "Mark D. 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bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4;Ip=[66.129.239.15];Helo=[P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR0501MB1309 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: Hi Folks, While working with the IETF AD Eric Rescorla doing the AD review of draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2, the topic came up of validation of the Diffie-Hellman public key on both client and server (peers). The RFC 4253 Section 8 writes: |8. Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange | | The Diffie-Hellman (DH) key exchange provides a shared secret that | cannot be determined by either party alone. The key exchange is | combined with a signature with the host key to provide host | authentication. This key exchange method provides explicit server | authentication as defined in Section 7. | | The following steps are used to exchange a key. In this, C is the | client; S is the server; p is a large safe prime; g is a generator | for a subgroup of GF(p); q is the order of the subgroup; V_S is S's | identification string; V_C is C's identification string; K_S is S's | public host key; I_C is C's SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message and I_S is S's | SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message that have been exchanged before this part | begins. | | 1. C generates a random number x (1 < x < q) and computes | e = g^x mod p. C sends e to S. | ...elided... | Values of 'e' or 'f' that are not in the range [1, p-1] MUST NOT be | sent or accepted by either side. If this condition is violated, the | key exchange fails. ...elided... The z in range [1, p-1] notation, specifies a closed interval which includes the end points which is equivant to 1 <= z <= p-1. The (1, p-1) notation specifies an open interval which excludes the endpoints 1 < z < p-2. Eric noted that https://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?rfc=7919#section-5.1 uses open endpoints. Eric suggested that my draft should include text that is similar to the ext in the RFC 7919 to correct this errata. Before I make such a change, I wish understand if what folks have been using for the test in their implementations and get a consensus on such a change. Thank you, -- Mark From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Wed Jun 21 21:44:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DE8127A90 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qgQ8jCONx3eu for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 896CF126C0F for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id BBEF384DDF; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:44:25 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 1061C84D7B; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:44:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39BE84D73 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id VZNywFC7B4Sf for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from NAM01-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam01on0730.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe42::730]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54CE84D72 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=GUNGCclqJKs+nZJkTuNlT90U9UEwGs3hB95W/icRF2M=; b=d5rpCkN7CksJZt9mI+ys4unZH2rtmJXbqnhKcQI7c4p7/q2BoaURHVxkjV8WuLWKT5tvAzf1EkN1aLEaLTEy1Ft847nPcqj50gt2/E7L8/y4VIkJrsyLh8pvG8LrRCDBz8wsROtCc5pC17yZTDV7JO2Pe9C7BcngSYA/VrukcrM= Received: from DM5PR05CA0007.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.173.226.17) by BN3PR0501MB1300.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.183.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1199.6; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:03 +0000 Received: from DM3NAM05FT034.eop-nam05.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7e51::206) by DM5PR05CA0007.outlook.office365.com (2603:10b6:3:d4::17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1199.6 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:03 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.15) smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; NetBSD.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;NetBSD.org; dmarc=fail action=none header.from=juniper.net; Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.15 as permitted sender) Received: from P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.15) by DM3NAM05FT034.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.98.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1157.20 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 19:32:02 +0000 Received: from p-mailhub01.juniper.net (10.160.2.17) by P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:32:02 -0700 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by p-mailhub01.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id v5LJW1Ff011097; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:32:01 -0700 (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D504011446; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 12:32:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Ron Frederick CC: Curdle WG , SSH WG , Eric Rescorla Subject: Re: RFC 4253 possible errata In-Reply-To: <50A8EE09-4FB3-4272-956E-E280F90E01A9@timeheart.net> References: <80212.1498069205@eng-mail01.juniper.net> <50A8EE09-4FB3-4272-956E-E280F90E01A9@timeheart.net> Comments: In-reply-to: Ron Frederick message dated "Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:35 -0700." 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bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4;Ip=[66.129.239.15];Helo=[P-EMFE01C-SAC.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1300 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: Hi Ron, Ron Frederick writes: > Hi Mark, >=20 > On Jun 21, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > > While working with the IETF AD Eric Rescorla doing the AD > > review of draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2, the topic came up of > > validation of the Diffie-Hellman public key on both client and server > > (peers). > >=20 > > The RFC 4253 Section 8 writes: > >=20 > > |8. Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange > > | > > | The Diffie-Hellman (DH) key exchange provides a shared secret that > > | cannot be determined by either party alone. The key exchange is > > | combined with a signature with the host key to provide host > > | authentication. This key exchange method provides explicit server > > | authentication as defined in Section 7. > > | > > | The following steps are used to exchange a key. In this, C is the > > | client; S is the server; p is a large safe prime; g is a generator > > | for a subgroup of GF(p); q is the order of the subgroup; V_S is S's > > | identification string; V_C is C's identification string; K_S is S's > > | public host key; I_C is C's SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message and I_S is S's > > | SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message that have been exchanged before this part > > | begins. > > | > > | 1. C generates a random number x (1 < x < q) and computes > > | e =3D g^x mod p. C sends e to S. > > | > > ...elided... > >=20 > > | Values of 'e' or 'f' that are not in the range [1, p-1] MUST NOT be > > | sent or accepted by either side. If this condition is violated, the > > | key exchange fails. > >=20 > > ...elided... > >=20 > > The z in range [1, p-1] notation, specifies a closed interval which > > includes the end points which is equivant to 1 <=3D z <=3D p-1. The (1,= p-1) > > notation specifies an open interval which excludes the endpoints 1 < z < > > p-2. >=20 > [Ron] I don=E2=80=99t understand the =E2=80=9Cp-2=E2=80=9D here. Is that = a typo?=20 Yes, I guess I should be careful when I touch-type numerals. It is intended to be p-1 in both cases. > Also, if you want to convert from the closed range [1, p-1], shouldn=E2= =80=99t > that to be to an open range of (0, p), which would correspond to =E2=80= =9C0 < > z < p=E2=80=9D? Yes. That is the error. I believe it should either have been written as [2, p-2] or (1, p-1). If we look at other sources such as NIST SP 800-56A revision 2, page 36 section 5.6.2.3.1 we see the verification is [2, p-2] which is also used in RFC 7919. > > Eric noted that https://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?rfc=3D7919#section-5.1 > > uses open endpoints. > >=20 > > Eric suggested that my draft should include text that is similar to the > > ext in the RFC 7919 to correct this errata. >=20 > [Ron] I see RFC 7919 refers to a closed range [2, p-2]. This would be > a change from what is allowed by RFC 4253 today. Yes. > > Before I make such a change, I wish understand if what folks have been > > using for the test in their implementations and get a consensus on such > > a change. >=20 > [Ron] In asyncssh, the test I=E2=80=99m doing on e & f is =E2=80=9C1 <=3D= e < p=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C1 > <=3D f < p", which is essentially the half-open range of [1, p) that is > equivalent to the closed range [1, p-1] listed in RFC 4253. Okay. This implies that there would need to be an implementation change if we agree that RFC 4253 use of a closed range is an errata because an open range was intended. Or, we could agree that narrowing the range is in the best interests of the DH key exchange. -- Mark From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Wed Jun 21 21:44:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E050A127B52 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZOCOxqL55UB for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47814126C0F for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 21:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 37D17855DC; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:44:34 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id D2F45855D9; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 04:44:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD55884D8D for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:41:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id rXnFTFDlHbF5 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:41:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pf0-x241.google.com (mail-pf0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B6E684C86 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:41:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf0-x241.google.com with SMTP id w12so32293314pfk.0 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timeheart.net; s=mail; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IVpCwhSnSYqQF32uusF9P6hLWPfnNGRVRqY8+d3woDw=; b=d0tuSMGHKecCiQrZr5Kr4kt3bX7FC4tJGOHiHvRPz5M0OBwsTD4t08YWCUhM6t07Vd kBUKqafBnWL4OAXYFXBAhl5POgw52zAy7pqT8xy9VRDqQ+M0N9hEYqGxCwe+HdsfsERj PJ0EBLGA4RWaEZ8ks1rj4Vm1QDw14tt+0zwpw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IVpCwhSnSYqQF32uusF9P6hLWPfnNGRVRqY8+d3woDw=; b=NCvq1KKe1xLNaBxWoRFfLJrgqEwVU+dHTlmoRp+bMfT0QQGsRngKbJVpkAHJApo0aI KkJZUq168xDpS7v4/dypUKLB8Hn9MjjhOXV2eBkRWYPCzqW46COWCoxBlYbBZ89H/ieV 7rWN2954F4IFj5tabQ1e34+PLNS1hgdGVTiAAgLPbb4B4YoM6613m4VILl5hR5MubeJT gJXt64K9ej0O8lgUOPxFtZe9Q6AEoFtO3zyZ0b0MrJU919u95yn4wufysol1sfmhxrFr CMyVa/GmlP90SZ2mN3APAfXcTudyBp7e6nX9sj7wnlrrvaO7y94ZkYDDTaGqFbhb+q6h 8zhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOy2662sPqaLANjDswTLloRkvhf2qLWLqXXNvcTsYGoigOTFTttO KATqWX0wRHUHw2+y X-Received: by 10.84.224.133 with SMTP id s5mr15138413plj.93.1498070498580; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ronfred.symc.symantec.com ([155.64.23.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d88sm37504364pfk.133.2017.06.21.11.41.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: RFC 4253 possible errata From: Ron Frederick In-Reply-To: <80212.1498069205@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 11:41:35 -0700 Cc: Curdle WG , SSH WG , Eric Rescorla Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <50A8EE09-4FB3-4272-956E-E280F90E01A9@timeheart.net> References: <80212.1498069205@eng-mail01.juniper.net> To: "Mark D. Baushke" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: Hi Mark, On Jun 21, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > While working with the IETF AD Eric Rescorla doing the = AD > review of draft-ietf-curdle-ssh-modp-dh-sha2, the topic came up of > validation of the Diffie-Hellman public key on both client and server > (peers). >=20 > The RFC 4253 Section 8 writes: >=20 > |8. Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange > | > | The Diffie-Hellman (DH) key exchange provides a shared secret that > | cannot be determined by either party alone. The key exchange is > | combined with a signature with the host key to provide host > | authentication. This key exchange method provides explicit server > | authentication as defined in Section 7. > | > | The following steps are used to exchange a key. In this, C is the > | client; S is the server; p is a large safe prime; g is a generator > | for a subgroup of GF(p); q is the order of the subgroup; V_S is = S's > | identification string; V_C is C's identification string; K_S is = S's > | public host key; I_C is C's SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message and I_S is S's > | SSH_MSG_KEXINIT message that have been exchanged before this part > | begins. > | > | 1. C generates a random number x (1 < x < q) and computes > | e =3D g^x mod p. C sends e to S. > | > ...elided... >=20 > | Values of 'e' or 'f' that are not in the range [1, p-1] MUST NOT = be > | sent or accepted by either side. If this condition is violated, = the > | key exchange fails. >=20 > ...elided... >=20 > The z in range [1, p-1] notation, specifies a closed interval which > includes the end points which is equivant to 1 <=3D z <=3D p-1. The = (1, p-1) > notation specifies an open interval which excludes the endpoints 1 < z = < > p-2. [Ron] I don=E2=80=99t understand the =E2=80=9Cp-2=E2=80=9D here. Is that = a typo? Also, if you want to convert from the closed range [1, p-1], = shouldn=E2=80=99t that to be to an open range of (0, p), which would = correspond to =E2=80=9C0 < z < p=E2=80=9D? > Eric noted that https://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup?rfc=3D7919#section-5.1 > uses open endpoints. >=20 > Eric suggested that my draft should include text that is similar to = the > ext in the RFC 7919 to correct this errata. [Ron] I see RFC 7919 refers to a closed range [2, p-2]. This would be a = change from what is allowed by RFC 4253 today. > Before I make such a change, I wish understand if what folks have been > using for the test in their implementations and get a consensus on = such > a change. [Ron] In asyncssh, the test I=E2=80=99m doing on e & f is =E2=80=9C1 <=3D = e < p=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C1 <=3D f < p", which is essentially the = half-open range of [1, p) that is equivalent to the closed range [1, = p-1] listed in RFC 4253. --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Thu Jun 22 22:19:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7C2126C23 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:19:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NDW7XET9yWlP for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1816120721 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 9375484DAD; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:19:37 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id 3A05584DA0; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:19:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CAD84DDE for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:31:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=timeheart.net Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id m_ZfaAOrMvKO for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:31:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-x241.google.com (mail-pg0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C281E84CDD for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:31:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-x241.google.com with SMTP id e187so1103840pgc.3 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:31:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timeheart.net; s=mail; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=cbrLFbC89qhf3PpoNGa4vgTnkyOF+F7gG9C8Qit/988=; b=aq1oUzHowdfdsR9Ck44zdn5+fQDsnM7ZX3MZtC+EpUKdviuXjaIYjXuBCgMwYGWoC2 5HPwPmHO6GToM7xiTr96dz2Bs1YZQcDWvl9h+0drmE2D8fyV1lgWx81Ye4SLDsJ+nzxS x41Qt2d4s0RA5vRAAx+U49Cm7tvr7XWUtYV4A= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=cbrLFbC89qhf3PpoNGa4vgTnkyOF+F7gG9C8Qit/988=; b=av+i/j+X2R2pA9EpnchuotODvIUKIshPmjTvtPye+4Lf7wuMAy4VUfcgvJDsKN8wk5 1ByJVyFYi9HzzjMWc/McWR2M6DK/xQIdPd3RYwA2jCdGsxn1hfdTOXhThDu7LokomBEF UxLkA4y7xsv4tOpc2R4uotFuZLlAbXbO8iSf3DkSpYlM9xdXpgOHEGTYo5X87DM3d0QO 1wtFMggAXuBwd6vx1sCmAsAxc7koIGYlYTuw62XQ/p1ojBd362QZ3PbsTG33RhMqJJHp 6Gx8Giyaa6axz9EAAxiZjHMoOPhbZgz9oxrgQwUN/TIIYhZhIfRFc40z8/hJVozl8U3E 36OQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyQbCi3BoYVWPYnB+eq+DffYke4GjaHHjUPb5npjI1XxnEyaC15 yFvlP6Sf6nl7uUvaLQx8A0O8 X-Received: by 10.84.216.70 with SMTP id f6mr910129plj.79.1498109464256; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 74-93-13-193-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net (74-93-13-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.93.13.193]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r129sm942402pfr.112.2017.06.21.22.31.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: RFC 4253 possible errata From: Ron Frederick In-Reply-To: <91495.1498073520@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:31:02 -0700 Cc: Curdle WG , SSH WG , Eric Rescorla Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8921418C-1876-446B-8216-C29127B22B0A@timeheart.net> References: <80212.1498069205@eng-mail01.juniper.net> <50A8EE09-4FB3-4272-956E-E280F90E01A9@timeheart.net> <91495.1498073520@eng-mail01.juniper.net> To: "Mark D. Baushke" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: Hi Mark, On Jun 21, 2017, at 12:32 PM, Mark D. Baushke wrote: >>> The z in range [1, p-1] notation, specifies a closed interval which >>> includes the end points which is equivant to 1 <=3D z <=3D p-1. The = (1, p-1) >>> notation specifies an open interval which excludes the endpoints 1 < = z < >>> p-2. >>=20 >> [Ron] I don=E2=80=99t understand the =E2=80=9Cp-2=E2=80=9D here. Is = that a typo?=20 >=20 > Yes, I guess I should be careful when I touch-type numerals. It is > intended to be p-1 in both cases. >=20 >> Also, if you want to convert from the closed range [1, p-1], = shouldn=E2=80=99t >> that to be to an open range of (0, p), which would correspond to =E2=80= =9C0 < >> z < p=E2=80=9D? >=20 > Yes. >=20 > That is the error. I believe it should either have been written as [2, > p-2] or (1, p-1). >=20 > If we look at other sources such as NIST SP 800-56A revision 2, page = 36 > section 5.6.2.3.1 we see the verification is [2, p-2] which is also = used > in RFC 7919. [Ron] Interesting. I just checked the OpenSSH code, and it looks like it = is already enforcing [2, p-2], so that would support considering this to = be an error in the RFC, and would also suggest I should change my = implementation to avoid picking a value that OpenSSH would reject if I = was doing a DH exchange with it. >>> Before I make such a change, I wish understand if what folks have = been >>> using for the test in their implementations and get a consensus on = such >>> a change. >>=20 >> [Ron] In asyncssh, the test I=E2=80=99m doing on e & f is =E2=80=9C1 = <=3D e < p=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C1 >> <=3D f < p", which is essentially the half-open range of [1, p) that = is >> equivalent to the closed range [1, p-1] listed in RFC 4253. >=20 > Okay. >=20 > This implies that there would need to be an implementation change if = we > agree that RFC 4253 use of a closed range is an errata because an open > range was intended. Or, we could agree that narrowing the range is in > the best interests of the DH key exchange. [Ron] If there=E2=80=99s a mix of implementations out there, that would = argue that making all of them use the narrower range would be best. In = additional to bringing this in line with RFC 7919, it would help to = avoid a rare but possible interoperability problem. --=20 Ron Frederick ronf@timeheart.net From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Fri Jun 23 05:42:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5692B128DF6 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:42:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S9_uiD8OHc6B for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.netbsd.org [199.233.217.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24AAE128DF3 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id E169F84DE0; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:41:59 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D61784DA0 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:41:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id RutB5txxXksP for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:41:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot0-x22c.google.com (mail-ot0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E884184D82 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:41:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id u13so30545829otd.2 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:41:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Uy+w8ow5d4L7MiUWadq7kM3tkO82Z/dO3TyHyOS6oS4=; b=UHfJJdQKn5HXaH3txTwqN/h9/Dd2jtVNOqceSchPmBVZDq/s9mJ40pxcqLPdT5VJ41 mqyp3b5MwX721mAgh3bRMwU9fmPp//SCmw7zuv4FkfwHI4ZNCCQR3U87ZyLUvVKTrHmP Ktp19qzmLXxKhHX9z38vBMgRBiEeqQpH2cyzAOLTcXWixkzLKmUiNtJyfQ2erJVnwd9z Oe14Gv3I6up+NO7YaAUC31bdxVBJew1PTefpHCq/S8ZiZiymtCfcCjt4pBMFbKP9oBGW nV37wcH2+lVhe2+2UoRl9p1WjGkW2DZLJAnGWKH7R8djVnt/OCmSDW+3CiKi/AjP6UoJ vwMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Uy+w8ow5d4L7MiUWadq7kM3tkO82Z/dO3TyHyOS6oS4=; b=hNVFVROjZWe0MNg7qSiyBooBFvN/TCJ6q+lFFpOePfQMLxpChlvj868g+jHHQ/XeVY 9LeM44omzMJTv4CqawuRGmHSJAWV37R6rWBRuPHcNObeDNBLGBqxNRIH/Kxgt0fFRzu2 B/Szaj1WfBrvGU0aSPhYsQdav0sRmSHNK1aupBfi1WcDRp2Z4Deu9nXO/nLmlz5IlvdD 0yUphbyqzfIwofKgW4MxrhB2N3y+grZHhNoq0nZrOA0X1L7mLv14RKp8/eCmFFDsTxQs 55ZdcQQmNiV3w55QNC7934CWfz0ZoXo/vU44w8TQ2wWsJXAEe3dkIZzGvY8y/+NRy04A gWMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwzoBfk5XAi+n4k9RWeqoO9akCueNfF6BMIDppmY5zUp2r/Pak8 GFQsw7nG+ESWXJuTk56zHEfDoFm+Nw== X-Received: by 10.157.12.205 with SMTP id o13mr4746059otd.20.1498221717251; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:41:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.0.36 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 05:41:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> References: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> From: Markus Friedl Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:41:56 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values To: "denis bider (Bitvise)" Cc: Damien Miller , ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: 2017-06-14 11:43 GMT+02:00 denis bider (Bitvise) : > And when you do that, I am then peeved if you simultaneously abrogate this > responsibility, by developing, planning, and designing sloppily. Just try to make simpler protocol extensions, so I can keep seeing sloppy -m From bounces-ietf-ssh-owner-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive=lists.ietf.org@NetBSD.org Sat Jun 24 01:32:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-secsh-tyoxbijeg7-archive@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13561127868 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:32:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.39 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QZGVwoJFNGKQ for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.netbsd.org (mail.NetBSD.org [IPv6:2001:470:a085:999::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A3281242F5 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 01:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 605) id 4EE4984DE0; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 08:32:16 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: ietf-ssh@netbsd.org Received: by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1347) id EE03E84D9C; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 08:32:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24FE84DA1 for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:19:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at netbsd.org Authentication-Results: mail.netbsd.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=denisbider.com Received: from mail.netbsd.org ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mail.netbsd.org [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id uEwMhB0jifpu for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:19:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.netbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45BEA84CDD for ; Fri, 23 Jun 2017 13:19:55 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=denisbider.com; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to: references; bh=vdbFB9Nm4jVlEE91iX/r38UPJFPDl5qdHYh9YbIvAOk=; b=iPOgF0RmxysxWDB3RRCl/C1BUFQIsbkkPMkKHumkBxQIdGxlbOq9Fx7EY3IHCJze5VxdwLyTdpf5U rrIN1s9mqPMejIY1o1A46hi2uX5dUCMOjoYdx/ZQ4ovo8JhtSTdxL0FI7kvIIR/atgR5aMAuDPM2Ty Df2L80KEMdgkepVQWIsjCzpKlL0f7GTf9Emn8+p0iH+aBB+p+xEBigvwJIVyCm/6LAoDF3RYNVMKKd Oxeeqzn4dMrmEdyQKhpExEttGMU7UO3Ar4MSYkAJ0DbTGyLNMIfZPUEsHVwcY+5nl4kVfjoInf0dQu pg7v5+dywleF3jJVPtcMfSlizjLPMCA== X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com with ESMTPSA (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Fri, 23 Jun 2017 14:19:33 +0100 Message-ID: <43E5E2A1DD834CDE8432FCA0EBFB32E3@Khan> From: "denis bider \(Bitvise\)" To: "Markus Friedl" Cc: "Damien Miller" , References: <76D46D670C0D4EED9447537DB7C131E3@Khan> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 07:18:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0206_01D2EBF0.E7B2F870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 Sender: ietf-ssh-owner@NetBSD.org List-Id: ietf-ssh.NetBSD.org Precedence: list List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0206_01D2EBF0.E7B2F870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aye =E2=80=93 I thought there=E2=80=99s nothing simpler than: string extension-name string extension-value <=3D can contain any value! But... there we go. :) It=E2=80=99s fascinating how much non-simplicity one discovers in things = that seem simple. *sigh* You know what the most common misunderstanding = of our users is? They don=E2=80=99t know what=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cclient=E2=80=9D and = what=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D. From: Markus Friedl=20 Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 06:41 To: denis bider (Bitvise)=20 Cc: Damien Miller ; ietf-ssh@netbsd.org=20 Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension values 2017-06-14 11:43 GMT+02:00 denis bider (Bitvise) = : > And when you do that, I am then peeved if you simultaneously abrogate = this > responsibility, by developing, planning, and designing sloppily. Just try to make simpler protocol extensions, so I can keep seeing = sloppy -m ------=_NextPart_000_0206_01D2EBF0.E7B2F870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Aye =E2=80=93 I thought there=E2=80=99s nothing simpler than:
 
  string extension-name
  string extension-value <=3D can contain any value!
 
But... there we go. :)
 
It=E2=80=99s fascinating how much non-simplicity one discovers in = things that seem=20 simple. *sigh* You know what the most common misunderstanding of our = users=20 is?
 
They don=E2=80=99t know what=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cclient=E2=80=9D = and what=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cserver=E2=80=9D.
 
 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 06:41
Subject: Re: OpenSSH bug in decoding EXT_INFO extension=20 values
 

2017-06-14=20 11:43 GMT+02:00 denis bider (Bitvise)=20 <ietf-ssh3@denisbider.com>:

> And when you do that, I am = then=20 peeved if you simultaneously abrogate this
> responsibility, by=20 developing, planning, and designing sloppily.

Just try to make = simpler=20 protocol extensions, so I can keep seeing=20 sloppy

-m
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