From nobody Sat Apr 1 07:11:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2078912948B for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y3rsbtTnDcaP for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B97FE129477 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01D61C0AD0; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:11:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1491055871; bh=gBIk7C6z1caBFH4MDezAmo4vbcvZro4GGFQh0EoSzAI=; h=To:Cc:From:Subject:Date:From; b=EgwTqqD4Kp8kn6zUPsYiuoMhNFiD++fkjBUK+KMnLatKNzZuXWLtPRpxDPrG+Bzfu QNDIw8N90ERHnkAGjgpf3WFXxJRnj/HaOt5g/EUbM6p1zbW0sw5Lp6lwEJH3sKEdf2 HXFc8LbNpyPeZhigIdMWpOVAxG3HDkp/tnHCxpXI= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (swissotel07.s.subnet.rcn.com [216.80.61.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3166F1C0244; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:11:11 -0700 (PDT) To: "sfc@ietf.org" Cc: Tal Mizrahi , James N Guichard From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <08ff9e9a-e34d-8f6d-9436-8bdfdd474fb7@joelhalpern.com> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 10:11:10 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] draft-kumar-sfc-offloads adoption call X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 14:11:13 -0000 The working group adoption call for draft-kumar-sfc-offloads has completed. In the chairs opinion, there is sufficient support for adoption of this document. Authors, please submit draft-ietf-sfc-offloads with the same content as the current draft-kumar-sfc-offloads. As both chairs have been actively involved in this document (and are named authors), we have asked Tal Mizrahi to shepherd this document from here forward. Thank you, Joel and Jim From nobody Sat Apr 1 15:06:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25A621292FD for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:06:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TBssCPIw06Ri for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66C9A12947A for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKC96749; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:06:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 23:06:16 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:06:05 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYw== Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 22:06:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.158.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5D5SJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020204.58E02459.0086, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 1735cbeb47c80f9b8efc407893dc73e1 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:06:22 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5D5SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5D5SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call for WG adoption = of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any stat= ements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG la= st call. The document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the con= tent until there is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, plea= se don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption o= f the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would ta= ke to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by all me= ans raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address = them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to sh= epherd this document should it be accepted as a WG document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5D5SJCEML701CHMchina_-- From nobody Sat Apr 1 15:13:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A7812951D for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hyLgNnJ8VLru for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CFF012953F for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DDY92955; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:13:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 23:13:00 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:12:50 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwAAWXCQ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 22:12:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.158.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5F7SJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.58E025ED.00CA, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: c3d02a70efc9fe598711e8b9a9badccc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 22:13:05 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5F7SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear WG: One small correction; Sumandra has accepted to act as editor for the docume= nt should it be accepted as a WG document. Jim From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 6:06 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/d= raft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5F7SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear WG:

 

One small correction; = Sumandra has accepted to act as editor for the document should it be accept= ed as a WG document.

 

Jim<= /p>

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 6:06 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call for WG adoption = of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any stat= ements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG la= st call. The document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the con= tent until there is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, plea= se don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption o= f the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would ta= ke to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by all me= ans raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address = them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to sh= epherd this document should it be accepted as a WG document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE5F7SJCEML701CHMchina_-- From nobody Sun Apr 2 00:03:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietf.org Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86348126D05; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 00:03:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sfc@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.49.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149111662850.4324.1523299574945384026@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 00:03:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-offloads-00.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 07:03:49 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF. Title : Service Function Simple Offloads Authors : Surendra Kumar Jim Guichard Paul Quinn Joel Halpern Sumandra Majee Filename : draft-ietf-sfc-offloads-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-04-02 Abstract: Service Function Chaining (SFC) enables services to be delivered by selective traffic steering through an ordered set of service functions. Once classified into an SFC, the traffic for a given flow is steered through all the service functions of the SFC for the life of the traffic flow even though this is often not necessary. Steering traffic to service functions only while required and not otherwise, leads to shorter SFC forwarding paths with improved latencies, reduced resource consumption and better user experience. This document describes the rationale, techniques and necessary protocol extensions to achieve such optimization, with focus on one such technique termed "simple offloads". The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-offloads/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-offloads-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-offloads-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Apr 2 23:05:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24A4129568 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 23:05:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3hq1tk2SsGd for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 23:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDF30126C2F for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 23:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar21.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 13169100800; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:05:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.2]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E4B1E40064; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:05:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e92a:c932:907e:8f06%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:05:06 +0200 From: To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSg Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 06:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 06:05:10 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, all, I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresses = the comments raised during the interim meeting: =B7 Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other d= ocuments (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). =B7 The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for adopti= on to be issued on a version that addresses the comments raised during the = interim meeting:

=B7    &n= bsp;    Many of the TLVs in the= document are already defined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, an= d 12).

=B7    &n= bsp;    The description of some= TLVs is really weak. E.g.,

o=     Content type (Section 6= )

o=     Ingress Network Informa= tion (Section 7)

o=     URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,=

 

This message begins a two week = call for WG adoption of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC maili= ng list with any statements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:<= /p>

 

  1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is expec= ted to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is s= olid. Therefore, please don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your = reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns.<= /o:p>
  3. = If you have issues with the content, by all means rais= e those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has = kindly accepted to shepherd this document should it be accepted as a WG doc= ument.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 11:54:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B1A127449 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:54:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddPCStyy4ZwA for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A41A81242EA for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id w11so181135271wrc.3 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=EJHPBk/ui+L3EE6uVshlxGHK3T6DTay66KjjNQe4TG8=; b=F5AnnbdT0XBT1h199KSK/WmU1+YsfbpYsFMdfwOWXRYihdQGYsVPQav12Td/y3t8RY 0QQq6CfIhl9OkYaJdWG9ftVLaKyScLfLDmnIfmnBeN+lqqO4RBfRivyaWET4Wp+szq3f YVTKWy7o+SKM1B5HZDlcx06dXoNcp8wqjamklvYfm87M+YsC3Nyu83PP2GS5OCK/vT/I dmP0vTFTgVnViMAeLH6X+nnF8Qu25jay6wW8wbw8uslA7l5jUpfOod9mz6ZvMPICCxzK qMNE64CYA5jrkurmhXCS+bsb8RlDnRivah9v8DMkyEj6s3KwgilgOmRssc0bRLDgGnw1 Q9Rg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=EJHPBk/ui+L3EE6uVshlxGHK3T6DTay66KjjNQe4TG8=; b=V4oNOyazWpbb+tJ9oF7KXw9zqnp66aGJADHMPhcDzoq7VE6bNy0AZ54vIh5Zl9GjpV KC5qoJCBLXdj5UmHFvob7wzXWr/2UDDC0Fj06ttkHpEjqsiMtIVDjX8nx0DiBwW4kB/W zB8oZ+p54IWXvSd7OrVqRSUYm1xaTGcOfa+KMixJqOdhbtB4NDBWPpTUSewjZyRNARFM feeRM7oq8eZrBlTovz7PsKkmImgfclBUlfQc8XW6OarKURyHC4p/g7nzVAd9GT3e4hQ4 aCRe37SFLv/zWlmdNWPZMrtjMIOCCkYGIVeqYnJF5xCSmcS6NonzULBBqBWWrqpXae1L NiSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3PYgyvhW2wAlxiySyT3rAn5juiVy5Rcu25HZmBdOG57BZB1vyc fzg1CX+IpVJHNEUUkdO/ZaC6VPcnyw== X-Received: by 10.28.46.198 with SMTP id u189mr10537908wmu.54.1491245658183; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.169.228 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 11:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:54:17 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mohamed Boucadair Cc: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11423b64baaadb054c47afa5 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 18:54:21 -0000 --001a11423b64baaadb054c47afa5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 1:05 AM, wrote: > Hi Jim, all, > > > > I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresse= s > the comments raised during the interim meeting: > > =C2=B7 Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in ot= her > documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). > > =C2=B7 The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., > > o Content type (Section 6) > > o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) > > o URI (Section 10) > > > Yes, Subscriber/user Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Section 3 are defined elsewhere. Also Application ID in Section 5, and Metadata 1's in Sections 11 and 12 need to be removed. Sumendra, please remove these TLVs. Regards, Behcet > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* James N Guichard > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 > *=C3=80 :* sfc@ietf.org > *Objet :* [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv > > > > Greetings WG, > > > > This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document *http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ > * ending > 17th April 2017. > > > > Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or > disapproval. > > > > Please note: > > > > 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is > expected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the co= ntent > is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80=99t oppose adoption just because= you want to > see changes to its content. > 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state > your reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your conce= rns. > 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those > issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. > > > > In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document > should it be accepted as a WG document. > > > > Yours, > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > --001a11423b64baaadb054c47afa5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 1:05 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.= com> wrote:

Hi Jim, all,

=C2=A0

I do prefer the call for adoption= to be issued on a version that addresses the comments raised during the in= terim meeting:

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many of the TLVs in the docu= ment are already defined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12)= .

=C2=B7=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The description of some TLVs= is really weak. E.g.,

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Content type (Section 6)<= /u>

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Ingress Network Information = (Section 7)

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 URI (Section 10)

=C2=A0



Yes, Subscriber/user Inf= ormation in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Section 3=C2=A0are defined els= ewhere. Also Application ID in Section 5, and Metadata 1's in=C2=A0 Sec= tions 11 and 12 need to be removed.

Sumendra, ple= ase remove these TLVs.

Regards,

Behcet

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@i= etf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C3=80=C2=A0: sfc@= ietf.org
Objet=C2=A0: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv<= /u>

=C2=A0

Greetings WG,

=C2=A0

This message begins a two week = call for WG adoption of the document https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ endin= g 17th April 2017.

=C2=A0

Please respond to the SFC maili= ng list with any statements of approval or disapproval.

=C2=A0

Please note:

=C2=A0

  1. This is not WG last call. The = document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the content until th= ere is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80= =99t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.<= /li>
  2. If you have objections to = adoption of the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what i= t would take to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by= all means raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to a= ddress them.

=C2=A0

In addition Sumandra Majee has = kindly accepted to shepherd this document should it be accepted as a WG doc= ument.

=C2=A0

Yours,

=C2=A0

Jim & Joel

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s0_vFix8Fj_o for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8373F1294C3 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 12:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v33JWWg6014179; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:32:32 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([176.241.250.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v33JWQIG014135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:32:29 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Sumandra Majee'" , , "'James N Guichard'" , References: <806D9ED1-17A7-4B36-AAE9-35B4A54CFF15@f5.com> In-Reply-To: <806D9ED1-17A7-4B36-AAE9-35B4A54CFF15@f5.com> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:32:27 +0100 Message-ID: <03c101d2acb1$09ab5d20$1d021760$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03C2_01D2ACB9.6B7431F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGg32GymeVDJe2uAEtL6+zflEXBJqIXomog Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-22984.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--20.862-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--20.862-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: yebcs53SkkDYfPOPCpnfAlPjo7D4SFg4YETZ7PmJhkDSYAzZ6KmqWuJ9 yPxnZ8tubrgUJ4CnqHixJZlbR4Xa9ibe3TK4uBX+nVTWWiNp+v9+RK30aqYpVStQE8zWBwIoDaj TssRnSt1r1mzjtC5jOO+8FfiT1K/X8P4Bf0DnMRvMU6h4F0f+fVsChor7BLiN9YBezwhBfW6XRA 57JA6vlsZ9W5O/0+mKU/9daewFqhn0XRNV17HLOqm4PbloS2C3YWNvBFvbNrgM74Nf6tTB9k+/k +iAGogx7WORC7cdCFvYTTOXlIalbtaSgJLPelTmFBJtdu/9JCbF2cUL5sovKnQ8D+SLaQjsHEkR fST+Ts4uI29Z9XjQN4cypU5vI8wyw1hXve9gEVCO0rt0LpQGeRSpYqhygmjp6ygMMToK892nhZy bKoFsXELduO9IO73n36y5gCD1lYkzG8Dg48sJ/vIVL3+KSNgwkTzAgHG5eNKgJH974mpbq6gTkL gTtTggXql2hIcwl2sTHy/6jlpjHT4gGkEowIKZNs3S39zaoXYU2wesiIXyuxW+93iqRvX7dmFLE 8oqrHwzmpYx+UKjh3C2KyYp/H7vWYqLLUX2mAtB6yOrxc8xu8MdI0UcXEHzj2iyfwmt0k/Z8MUY hpNWM6H/0NvSton7/1paUDrxVm587T/mVRt8xBIMDPFEv6Uxf6/Md8Lb2l8no0smd1GLZADH+SZ FBrRqJIPFmqDDlsqSU848M/hs6Ei8wUMZL0vvi+m1DDPm2yL/fHyH+MCF5Q8YwboCQc88p74Nig gzoBg1C2f8ND2KYDyp6zFdwwP9o27w8ee4WC+eAiCmPx4NwGmRqNBHmBve1B0Hk1Q1KyI+8FJNG dxYq+EmMBEXHLXt3UUiejJ7tsLcNVGdz87m/X6ihek4qg+xmpLKOAy+0pc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 19:32:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03C2_01D2ACB9.6B7431F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has there been a version since October 2016? =20 Maybe some confusion because the section numbering is "a bit odd". =20 Adrian =20 From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sumandra Majee Sent: 03 April 2017 20:04 To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv =20 Med, =20 Which version are you referring to? =20 From: sfc on behalf of = "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" Date: Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 11:05 PM To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" = Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv =20 Hi Jim, all,=20 =20 I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that = addresses the comments raised during the interim meeting:=20 =C2=B7 Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in = other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12).=20 =C2=B7 The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) =20 Cheers, Med =20 De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=C3=A9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C3=80 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv =20 Greetings WG, =20 This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending = 17th April 2017. =20 Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval = or disapproval. =20 Please note: =20 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is = expected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the = content is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80=99t oppose adoption just = because you want to see changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your = reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. =20 In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document = should it be accepted as a WG document. =20 Yours, =20 Jim & Joel =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_03C2_01D2ACB9.6B7431F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has there been a = version since October 2016?

 

Maybe some confusion = because the section numbering is "a bit = odd".

 

Adrian

 

From: sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sumandra = Majee
Sent: 03 April 2017 20:04
To: = mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; James N Guichard; = sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv<= /span>

 

Med,

 

Which version are you referring = to?

 

From: sfc = <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of = "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" = <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Date: Sunday, April 2, = 2017 at 11:05 PM
To: James N Guichard = <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" = <sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for = adoption to be issued on a version that addresses the comments raised = during the interim meeting:

=C2=B7      =    Many of the TLVs in the = document are already defined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, = and 12).

=C2=B7      =    The description of some TLVs = is really weak. E.g.,

o    Content type (Section = 6)

o    Ingress Network Information = (Section 7)

o    URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N = Guichard
Envoy=C3=A9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 = 00:06
=C3=80 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] = Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call = for WG adoption of the document h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/<= /u> ending 17th April 2017.

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list = with any statements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG last call. The document = is not final and the WG is expected to modify the content until there is = WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80=99t = oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its = content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption of = the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would = take to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by = all means raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to = address them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly = accepted to shepherd this document should it be accepted as a WG = document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_03C2_01D2ACB9.6B7431F0-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 13:03:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F614128990 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ei4j-ZzUu3aD for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6851D1294BF for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DEB57914; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 20:02:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 21:02:52 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:02:40 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSgAB2nVTA= Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:02:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.212.245.152] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE958SJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020206.58E2AA6D.028F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: c3d02a70efc9fe598711e8b9a9badccc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 20:02:58 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE958SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, As I said this is not a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will mo= dify the content. If this document is adopted by the WG then the editor wil= l make any necessary changes based upon WG consensus. Jim From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 2:05 AM To: James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, all, I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresses = the comments raised during the interim meeting: =B7 Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other d= ocuments (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). =B7 The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE958SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Med,

 

As I said this is not = a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will modify the content. If t= his document is adopted by the WG then the editor will make any necessary c= hanges based upon WG consensus.

 

Jim<= /p>

 

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mo= hamed.boucadair@orange.com]
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 2:05 AM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/h= tml/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued= on a version that addresses the comments raised during the interim meeting= :

=B7       =   Many of the TLVs in the document are a= lready defined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12).

=B7       =   The description of some TLVs is really= weak. E.g.,

o    Content type (Section 6)

o    Ingress Network Information (Section 7= )

o    URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call for WG adoption = of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any stat= ements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG la= st call. The document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the con= tent until there is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, plea= se don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption o= f the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would ta= ke to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by all me= ans raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address = them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to sh= epherd this document should it be accepted as a WG document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DCE958SJCEML701CHMchina_-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 16:54:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4FD127077 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:54:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukEMcXvI9syp for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53F5F126B7F for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id b187so145317662oif.0 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:54:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=no8hQ1cZx8LezfPf4Y0QxCPPrlr0wM8qUtoOuzcQyEU=; b=OJ3tdwTJRW3zUeskxEc75WZoBiT6F11H8rbKI9N20a4Jq4TFFWPqLkA7ovnZISvziv EVLspFlqQNuOPxamhgG6pGsqrJkBjFq6ExeZ3ExJzzWDRpzBbg1TlvxSSJoIpCNb4QKu 4vfad9oaKK0OU5dXqxTqmgP2OZRZLr4+eXqsCMMbfrQC3j2kCiS5+4Z4ARdUrjMho6OR XsIpcIzR48affP7ovXiY3nDGdAuVZsgPUxhcHv+oc6ipRhzYPoUUfw8W8GiGYTzTSBOg O8yO/hs1X9Dd9CSSeJYboXX1GEIbnKh0d1LffTY7/M3OuZEkeQwPqal86fqE2Cv8wKrl XEFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=no8hQ1cZx8LezfPf4Y0QxCPPrlr0wM8qUtoOuzcQyEU=; b=IassXn8/ZTFZBciFJ0D8s0lYD559vZY7ev8ieIEtCJLdwonxiezOClBjGC2jeSkFlk 7jHAbDNDlt9skYT+OZCSjejehLNhZx7J3QlkHrNeGBGX8wMc4/YHNbQDPOlVcOtSZVKT 8ieEWHQxbXYNPIj1eBBLZli5vqI58RBfPT87Zt12DynHwc52iF9u1rvqjtzC3wxHVlfE BP9NHvm+NALO2DWgQ9Gffk9XXzRySMbf66qYW4NZhtr2ZFruZoO4+yHCF6075vwPvI/J qhkR0AHJM9Ahzv934p44mfAVhY5sZCTSKrmy1iFyQX/gm/sP6lapLqNGZeh8lzHgLtrn pl0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1dvK1mlujq5wdH+wD2mTzIh5ZPg5VwKNW4K96KfJd72S0g64CVSXfkR8GjW5Vd38pzmx4PlyV8xtXBBg== X-Received: by 10.157.54.73 with SMTP id w67mr9809546otb.191.1491263660709; Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:54:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.201 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:54:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:54:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: "BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN" Cc: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c000b98c35afa054c4be05a Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 23:54:24 -0000 --94eb2c000b98c35afa054c4be05a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Med, I agree that the changes need to be made, but it=E2=80=99s easier if it bec= omes a WG document since the chairs can then appoint the editor and WG consensus directs the content, not the original author. Needless to say, I support WG adoption. Cheers, Andy On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:05 PM, wrote: > Hi Jim, all, > > > > I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresse= s > the comments raised during the interim meeting: > > =C2=B7 Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in ot= her > documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). > > =C2=B7 The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., > > o Content type (Section 6) > > o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) > > o URI (Section 10) > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* James N Guichard > *Envoy=C3=A9 :* dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 > *=C3=80 :* sfc@ietf.org > *Objet :* [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv > > > > Greetings WG, > > > > This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document *http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ > * ending > 17th April 2017. > > > > Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or > disapproval. > > > > Please note: > > > > 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is > expected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the co= ntent > is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80=99t oppose adoption just because= you want to > see changes to its content. > 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state > your reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your conce= rns. > 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those > issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. > > > > In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document > should it be accepted as a WG document. > > > > Yours, > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > --94eb2c000b98c35afa054c4be05a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Med,

I agree that the changes need to b= e made, but it=E2=80=99s easier if it becomes a WG document since the chair= s can then appoint the editor and WG consensus directs the content, not the= original author.

Needless to say, I support WG ad= option.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sun, Apr 2, 2= 017 at 11:05 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> = wrote:

Hi Jim, all,

=C2=A0

I do prefer the call for adopti= on to be issued on a version that addresses the comments raised during the = interim meeting:

=C2=B7= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many of the TLVs in the do= cument are already defined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 1= 2).

=C2=B7= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The description of some TL= Vs is really weak. E.g.,

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Content type (Section 6)

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ingress Network Informatio= n (Section 7)

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 URI (Section 10)=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Med

=C2=A0

De=C2=A0: sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounc= es@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C3=80=C2=A0: sfc@= ietf.org
Objet=C2=A0: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv<= /u>

=C2=A0

Greetings WG,

=C2=A0

This message begins a two week = call for WG adoption of the document https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.

=C2=A0

Please respond to the SFC maili= ng list with any statements of approval or disapproval.

=C2=A0

Please note:

=C2=A0

  1. This is not WG last call. The = document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the content until th= ere is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, please don=E2=80= =99t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.<= /li>
  2. If you have objections to = adoption of the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what i= t would take to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by= all means raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to a= ddress them.

=C2=A0

In addition Sumandra Majee has = kindly accepted to shepherd this document should it be accepted as a WG doc= ument.

=C2=A0

Yours,

=C2=A0

Jim & Joel

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" To: Sumandra Majee CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: About minimal controller requirement Thread-Index: AdKolGPWzh3ZTy5aSjm/YaInEB+SBAA+JtqAANWrxxA= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 01:45:28 +0000 Message-ID: <25537982d9bb4a89a4bdf611d550bb0f@XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com> References: <56cc619cf45e40bbaeb746e21eb4cd10@XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com> <02CCDC97-F606-4546-B997-C09E3282222A@f5.com> In-Reply-To: <02CCDC97-F606-4546-B997-C09E3282222A@f5.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.240.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] About minimal controller requirement X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 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VGhhbmtzDQogICAgUm9iZXJ0YQ0KICAgIA0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Mon Apr 3 22:55:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04065128BB7 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 22:55:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UyZwWj4QVQPn for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 22:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta135.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D902B1242F7 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 22:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.64]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id F202140508; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 07:55:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.34]) by opfednr00.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BD4701A0064; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 07:55:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6F.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::bd00:88f8:8552:3349%17]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 07:55:45 +0200 From: To: Sumandra Majee , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AQHSrKz8KG+6RxnkSkWsm8olLyDF86G0ttCg Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 05:55:45 +0000 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b05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiPkppbSAmYW1wOyBKb2VsPC9zcGFuPjxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+PHNwYW4gbGFuZz0iRU4tVVMiIHN0eWxlPSJm b250LWZhbWlseTomcXVvdDtNb25vdHlwZSBDb3JzaXZhJnF1b3Q7O2NvbG9yOiMwMDcwQzAiPiZu YnNwOzwvc3Bhbj48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxzcGFuIGxh bmc9IkVOLVVTIj4mbmJzcDs8L3NwYW4+PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9y bWFsIj48c3BhbiBsYW5nPSJFTi1VUyI+Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464A0OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Mon Apr 3 23:00:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734E6127076 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 23:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KHyL_HhqLbAq for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DEAB12704A for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2017 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.6]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A0F89606D9; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:00:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.10]) by opfedar04.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 81FCF40058; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:00:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::4bd:9b2b:3651:6fba%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 08:00:19 +0200 From: To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSgAB2nVTAAFOp9oA== Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 06:00:18 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BE@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BEOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 06:00:23 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BEOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, The point is that there was already an agreement to make these changes. Ple= ase let's do things in the right order. Cheers, Med De : James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com] Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet : RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Med, As I said this is not a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will mo= dify the content. If this document is adopted by the WG then the editor wil= l make any necessary changes based upon WG consensus. Jim From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [ma= ilto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 2:05 AM To: James N Guichard >; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, all, I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresses = the comments raised during the interim meeting: * Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other doc= uments (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). * The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BEOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim,

 

The point is that there was alr= eady an agreement to make these changes. Please let’s do things in th= e right order.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Jame= s N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com]
Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org
Objet : RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Hi Med,=

&n= bsp;

As I sa= id this is not a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will modify th= e content. If this document is adopted by the WG then the editor will make = any necessary changes based upon WG consensus.

&n= bsp;

Jim

 

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for adopti= on to be issued on a version that addresses the comments raised during the = interim meeting:

=B7<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Ro= man","serif";color:black">     &nbs= p;   Many of the TLVs in the document are already de= fined in other documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12).

=B7<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Ro= man","serif";color:black">     &nbs= p;   The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.= g.,

o=     Content type (Section 6)

o=     Ingress Network Information (Section 7)

o=     URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,=

 

This message begins a two week = call for WG adoption of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC maili= ng list with any statements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:<= /p>

 

  1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is expec= ted to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is s= olid. Therefore, please don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your = reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns.<= /o:p>
  3. = If you have issues with the content, by all means rais= e those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has = kindly accepted to shepherd this document should it be accepted as a WG doc= ument.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

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(1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S14Yl7dHKATZ for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 09:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 167E112943F for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 09:58:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3225; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1491325082; x=1492534682; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=RH19pevNVTaMdNUYjwYiv0S9v7T3hhtuSGtjXHq6l8o=; b=KxR+6o2LTlMdXnk4TUjGJqSwxfGo/R+t+2OocpZgAojTRBpCFSqmx+CE tUXMjCJGSNxheDa6uxu9nfmGCrJT7cwDLEMuVaFW/PmWsb+T16YFu9+4o QcF+PZCqi6P8wolBizLWHAq1WrpxTAO5lO8gAyVzWm8lBkEnG+5fvREgn w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: 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XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 11:58:00 -0500 From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" To: James N Guichard CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwAAWXCQAJZ0ToA= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 16:58:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.131.118.65] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E08A12A5B47745C380FC7382E12B2F55ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 16:58:04 -0000 --_000_E08A12A5B47745C380FC7382E12B2F55ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support the adoption of the draft. Paul On Apr 1, 2017, at 6:12 PM, James N Guichard > wrote: Dear WG: One small correction; Sumandra has accepted to act as editor for the docume= nt should it be accepted as a WG document. Jim --_000_E08A12A5B47745C380FC7382E12B2F55ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <54DF6D81E0E1C5498A28F59CB625BCA6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support the adoption of the draft.

Paul


On Apr 1, 2017, at 6:12 PM, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com= > wrote:

Dear WG:
 <= /o:p>
One small correction; S= umandra has accepted to act as editor for the document should it be accepte= d as a WG document.
 <= /o:p>
Jim
 

--_000_E08A12A5B47745C380FC7382E12B2F55ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Apr 4 10:04:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC784127A97 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:04:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TLM94Qld1pnm for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8E9D120326 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:04:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3826; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1491325454; x=1492535054; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=b3m3W+IfFMOTBniyBlhRYfs4aDoJ5fPSIMUaeglP6co=; b=DuU7ymrKjb9G/wr4t4hF82Q1z6/mN8Bz28sKevjJqhV0mB6YDjx2Aih6 9LEfBLYHf84KzlY4H4S/yJI1cHQMtpG0skAwcU5y5VJSWEhCh4ppSbSwy 5ZG1FxwhfwAZdgjJnBFx5mfBmT8c79jZg4Ze7e8euIH7W3/QnQh3OdU6Q g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BMAQBI0eNY/4oNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm5mYYELB41uoXyFMoIOKoV4AoNCPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUWBh1?= =?us-ascii?q?cEAIBCAQKFhsHMhQRAQEEDgWKDg6wD4ppAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBG?= =?us-ascii?q?AWGToIFgmqFDIJ8ghIfBZxtAYZ8i1ORPJN0AR84gQVbFVIBhH0YgTJ1iA6BDQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.36,275,1486425600"; d="scan'208,217";a="403559385" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 04 Apr 2017 17:04:14 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v34H4DMj007766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:04:13 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 12:04:13 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 12:04:13 -0500 From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" To: Sumandra Majee CC: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSgACXv7YAAK9lYgAACmQoA Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:04:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.131.118.65] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C5FA24EA22AE41C786DE2A6B1691F941ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:04:17 -0000 --_000_C5FA24EA22AE41C786DE2A6B1691F941ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There seems to be some confusion. What we originally discussed is that the= TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves. Optional companion drafts can delv= e into more specific uses / best practices of a given TLV or TLVs. On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee > wrote: Behcet, >>Yes, Subscriber/user Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Sect= ion 3 are defined elsewhere. So basically point to the this for subscribe/user information. However why remove the AppID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO. --_000_C5FA24EA22AE41C786DE2A6B1691F941ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <641E7C35C319DC45A97DDB000BC7DDF8@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There seems to be some confusion.  What we originally discussed is tha= t the TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves.  Optional companion draft= s can delve into more specific uses / best practices of a given TLV or TLVs= .




On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com> wrote:

Behcet,
 
>>Yes, Subscriber/user Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier i= n Section 3 are defined elsewhere.
So basically point to the th= is for subscribe/user information. 
 
However why remove the AppID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO.

--_000_C5FA24EA22AE41C786DE2A6B1691F941ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Apr 4 10:06:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 357C91292AE for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WHQ-_4tZN9Mb for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B98B9127A97 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Tue, 4 Apr 2017 13:06:44 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" , Sumandra Majee CC: "sfc@ietf.org" , James N Guichard Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSgACPXfIAAK9lYgAACmTCAAAhZBwA= Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2017 17:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987057759Dwtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 17:06:55 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987057759Dwtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to understand this position better. Are you saying this draft is intended to give names to TLVs without providi= ng semantics? If so, I see no point in that. Standardize TLVs in documents than can fully= explain their usage. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Quinn (paulq) Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 1:04 PM To: Sumandra Majee Cc: sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht= ml/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv There seems to be some confusion. What we originally discussed is that the= TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves. Optional companion drafts can delv= e into more specific uses / best practices of a given TLV or TLVs. On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee > wrote: Behcet, >>Yes, Subscriber/user Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Sect= ion 3 are defined elsewhere. So basically point to the this for subscribe/user information. However why remove the AppID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO. --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987057759Dwtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’d like to underst= and this position better.

Are you saying this draft= is intended to give names to TLVs without providing semantics?<= /span>

If so, I see no point in = that. Standardize TLVs in documents than can fully explain their usage.

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Quinn (paulq)
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 1:04 PM
To: Sumandra Majee
Cc: sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard
Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

There seems to be some confusion.  What we orig= inally discussed is that the TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves.  O= ptional companion drafts can delve into more specific uses / best practices= of a given TLV or TLVs.

 

 

 

 

On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com> wrote:

 

Behcet,

 

>>Yes, Subscriber/u= ser Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Section 3 are defi= ned elsewhere.

So basically point to the=  this for subscribe/user information. =

 

However why remove the Ap= pID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO.

 

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987057759Dwtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Wed Apr 5 00:07:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7240312940C for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:07:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0t_ByiCkpvdl for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9278E128B44 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar24.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id DDCC7C0499; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:07:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.18]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BC8C7180065; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:07:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cba:56d0:a732:ef5a%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:07:00 +0200 From: To: Sumandra Majee , "sarikaya@ieee.org" CC: "sfc@ietf.org" , James N Guichard Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07iKG+6RxnkSkWsm8olLyDF8wBCowSgACog0IAAHS5mAAAdQQTg Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 07:07:00 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DCC@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DCCOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 07:07:07 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DCCOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C072B12943A for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:08:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xqkhba2j1uoq for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B102F1292FD for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 00:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.65]) by opfednr20.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 03F6440378; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:08:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.21]) by opfednr01.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BCC221A0078; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:08:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM6C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::d9f5:9741:7525:a199%18]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 09:08:02 +0200 From: To: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" , Sumandra Majee CC: "sfc@ietf.org" , James N Guichard Thread-Topic: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07iKG+6RxnkSkWsm8olLyDF8wBCowSgACog0IAAHS5mAP//80GA//8GvLA= Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 07:08:02 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DE1@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DE1OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 07:08:17 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DE1OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul, There is no confusion at all. What was agreed is recorded in the SFC interim minutes: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The TLVs with short explanations belong to common TLV doc.; other doc. may = define the TLV needing more semantics for a use case. In particular, there = is no point in an entry in the common document whose only text is see WFC d= ocument X for structure and meaning of this TLV. In that case, document X = should reserve the type code. Action item: 1. Editors to remove inappropriate entries 2. WG to work out mechanism for vendors to create their own MD-2 type co= des. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Paul Quinn (paulq) Envoy=E9 : mardi 4 avril 2017 19:04 =C0 : Sumandra Majee Cc : sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard Objet : Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm= l/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv There seems to be some confusion. What we originally discussed is that the= TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves. Optional companion drafts can delv= e into more specific uses / best practices of a given TLV or TLVs. On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee > wrote: Behcet, >>Yes, Subscriber/user Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Sect= ion 3 are defined elsewhere. So basically point to the this for subscribe/user information. However why remove the AppID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO. --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DE1OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Paul,

 

There is no confusion at all.

 

What was agreed is recorded in = the SFC interim minutes:

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

The TLVs with short explanation= s belong to common TLV doc.; other doc. may define the TLV needing more sem= antics for a use case. In particular, there is no point in an entry in the common document whose only text is see WFC docume= nt X for structure and meaning of this TLV.  In that case, document X = should reserve the type code.

 

Action item:<= /p>

1.    Editors to= remove inappropriate entries

2.    WG to work= out mechanism for vendors to create their own MD-2 type codes.<= /span>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Paul Quinn (paulq)
Envoy=E9 : mardi 4 avril 2017 19:04
=C0 : Sumandra Majee
Cc : sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard
Objet : Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

There seems to be some confusion.  What we orig= inally discussed is that the TLV draft defines the TLVs themselves.  O= ptional companion drafts can delve into more specific uses / best practices= of a given TLV or TLVs.

 

 

 

 

On Apr 4, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com> wrote:

 

Behcet,

 

>>Yes, Subscriber/u= ser Information in Section 2 and Host Identifier in Section 3 are defi= ned elsewhere.

So basically point to the=  this for subscribe/user information. =

 

However why remove the Ap= pID, that is a pretty useful information IMHO.

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E46DE1OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Wed Apr 5 01:27:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5862129412 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 01:27:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wWa1jyJ1eBor for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MAILOUT21.telekom.de (MAILOUT21.telekom.de [80.149.113.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65981129441 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 01:27:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telekom.de; i=@telekom.de; q=dns/txt; s=dtag1; t=1491380861; x=1522916861; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=CPoYA7vTyffRJlWnfQtE8gc2mlEInCxDU76d86iPnCo=; b=oz5AJuKavlPYkizOswnyzXnlMsu2tMwe3RTJGWvFmb06sBBgmAJ5+5cC f9R/OJvQuxCXC1kH++aS8T9Sz0FH5igd7rmqYw3HH7jxIGwRD4U+wOhTz jAeiZ8Xzt43JFAmppjATrTYznTf5cQ7ocL/xEpP5EfQGsiwXuuto0MBrL JBNuEWI5zDUyymcKrpG2AOV6fBCIvgNk1k62DdKUKP+MooCwwrzbtzM2H Wpco42yX4UUJ9pOipAGO4h7RY2k1+7xEPhFBEDs0WKFxwTE7US2jFltr7 ICVAxbyoM79S5xQFr2oNDsRbfIRCneAWHv52Cce7ADBy4eCmQsw2b9h4w Q==; Received: from q4de8ssaz61.gppng.telekom.de ([10.206.166.200]) by MAILOUT21.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 05 Apr 2017 10:27:36 +0200 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.36,277,1486422000"; d="scan'208,217";a="1160467416" Received: from he105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.169.119.34]) by q4de8ssazdv.gppng.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 05 Apr 2017 10:27:33 +0200 Received: from HE105831.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.119.34) by HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.169.119.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 10:27:27 +0200 Received: from HE105831.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::68a7:ffa4:81be:3178]) by HE105831.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::68a7:ffa4:81be:3178%26]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 10:27:27 +0200 From: To: , , Thread-Topic: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Thread-Index: AdKrM07icTzG9KkhRIioxtuJ1M0cYwBCowSgAB2nVTAAFOp9oAA2wbcQ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 08:27:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E45972@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BE@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E464BE@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.117.17.15] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ca57be81a2a64292931ad687eee235acHE105831emea1cdstintern_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 08:27:46 -0000 --_000_ca57be81a2a64292931ad687eee235acHE105831emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I would second Meds opinion. Why not clean up everything already agreed bef= ore (or rather while) moving to next level and upload WG version of the dra= ft? Best Regards Dirk From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge.com Sent: Dienstag, 4. April 2017 08:00 To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht= ml/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, The point is that there was already an agreement to make these changes. Ple= ase let's do things in the right order. Cheers, Med De : James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com] Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet : RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Med, As I said this is not a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will mo= dify the content. If this document is adopted by the WG then the editor wil= l make any necessary changes based upon WG consensus. Jim From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [ma= ilto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 2:05 AM To: James N Guichard >; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, all, I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresses = the comments raised during the interim meeting: * Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other doc= uments (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). * The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_ca57be81a2a64292931ad687eee235acHE105831emea1cdstintern_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

I would second Meds op= inion. Why not clean up everything already agreed before (or rather while) = moving to next level and upload WG version of the draft?<= /p>

Best Regards
Dirk

 

 = ;

From: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Sent: Dienstag, 4. April 2017 08:00
To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Hi Jim,

 

The point is that there was already an agreeme= nt to make these changes. Please let’s do things in the right order.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : Jame= s N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com]
Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org
Objet : RE: Call for adoption of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-= nsh-tlv

 

Hi Med,

 

As I said this is not = a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will modify the content. If t= his document is adopted by the WG then the editor will make any necessary c= hanges based upon WG consensus.

 

Jim<= /p>

 

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued= on a version that addresses the comments raised during the interim meeting= :

=B7         Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other = documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12).

=B7         The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g.,<= /span>

o    Content type (Section 6)

o    Ingress Network Information (Section 7)

o    URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc [mailto:sfc= -bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call for WG adoption = of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any stat= ements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG la= st call. The document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the con= tent until there is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, plea= se don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption o= f the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would ta= ke to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by all me= ans raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address = them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to sh= epherd this document should it be accepted as a WG document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_ca57be81a2a64292931ad687eee235acHE105831emea1cdstintern_-- From nobody Wed Apr 5 16:11:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857C91293F9 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 16:11:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hzo1r9_grksf for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 16:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db5eur01on0095.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.2.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29232126FB3 for ; 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FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR0701MB2188C407A8A1ECD90768B5A1EA0A0HE1PR0701MB2188_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Apr 2017 23:11:18.8023 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2188 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [ALU] Re: Call for adoption ofhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 23:11:26 -0000 --_000_HE1PR0701MB2188C407A8A1ECD90768B5A1EA0A0HE1PR0701MB2188_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 -Praveen From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.= de Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:27 AM To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; james.n.guichard@huawei.com; sfc@ietf.org Subject: [ALU] Re: [sfc] Call for adoption ofhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Dear all, I would second Meds opinion. Why not clean up everything already agreed bef= ore (or rather while) moving to next level and upload WG version of the dra= ft? Best Regards Dirk From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge.com Sent: Dienstag, 4. April 2017 08:00 To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht= ml/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, The point is that there was already an agreement to make these changes. Ple= ase let's do things in the right order. Cheers, Med De : James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com] Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet : RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Med, As I said this is not a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will mo= dify the content. If this document is adopted by the WG then the editor wil= l make any necessary changes based upon WG consensus. Jim From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [ma= ilto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 2:05 AM To: James N Guichard >; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Hi Jim, all, I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued on a version that addresses = the comments raised during the interim meeting: * Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other doc= uments (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12). * The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g., o Content type (Section 6) o Ingress Network Information (Section 7) o URI (Section 10) Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv Greetings WG, This message begins a two week call for WG adoption of the document https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2= 017. Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any statements of approval or d= isapproval. Please note: 1. This is not WG last call. The document is not final and the WG is exp= ected to modify the content until there is WG consensus that the content is= solid. Therefore, please don't oppose adoption just because you want to se= e changes to its content. 2. If you have objections to adoption of the document, please state your= reasons why, and explain what it would take to address your concerns. 3. If you have issues with the content, by all means raise those issues = and we can begin a dialog about how best to address them. In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to shepherd this document sh= ould it be accepted as a WG document. Yours, Jim & Joel --_000_HE1PR0701MB2188C407A8A1ECD90768B5A1EA0A0HE1PR0701MB2188_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1

 

-Praveen

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 1:27 AM
To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; james.n.guichard@huawei.com; sfc@i= etf.org
Subject: [ALU] Re: [sfc] Call for adoption ofhttps://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Dear all,

I would second Meds op= inion. Why not clean up everything already agreed before (or rather while) = moving to next level and upload WG version of the draft?<= /p>

Best Regards
Dirk

&nbs= p;

 = ;

 

Hi Jim,

 

The point is that there was already an agreeme= nt to make these changes. Please let’s do things in the right order.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com]
Envoy=E9 : lundi 3 avril 2017 22:03
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; sfc@ietf.org Objet : RE: Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Hi Med,

 

As I said this is not = a WG last call and it is expected that the WG will modify the content. If t= his document is adopted by the WG then the editor will make any necessary c= hanges based upon WG consensus.

 

Jim<= /p>

 

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I do prefer the call for adoption to be issued= on a version that addresses the comments raised during the interim meeting= :

=B7&n= bsp;        Many of the TLVs in the document are already defined in other = documents (Sections: 2, 3, 5, 11, and 12).

=B7&n= bsp;        The description of some TLVs is really weak. E.g.,<= /span>

o    Content type (Section 6)

o    Ingress Network Information (Section 7)

o    URI (Section 10)

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 2 avril 2017 00:06
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] Call for adoption of https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv

 

Greetings WG,

 

This message begins a two week call for WG adoption = of the document https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draf= t-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ ending 17th April 2017.=

 

Please respond to the SFC mailing list with any stat= ements of approval or disapproval.

 

Please note:

 

  1. This is not WG la= st call. The document is not final and the WG is expected to modify the con= tent until there is WG consensus that the content is solid. Therefore, plea= se don’t oppose adoption just because you want to see changes to its content.
  2. If you have objections to adoption o= f the document, please state your reasons why, and explain what it would ta= ke to address your concerns.
  3. If you have issues with the content, by all me= ans raise those issues and we can begin a dialog about how best to address = them.

 

In addition Sumandra Majee has kindly accepted to sh= epherd this document should it be accepted as a WG document.

 

Yours,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

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mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DEAE120454; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id b187so99400864oif.0; Fri, 07 Apr 2017 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZtYxLllyN1b6oq+E76CqYS0TFubwBGvLtCrT4O30jlA=; b=XtJofOlpbP9SFCoQbPR2ReHgigRZKU14XMyghU3XJV/aRGjlyAhWO20tLOe4ZEgeLu STs9Ey5KOfAYduL6kgaG7JrEWkyVxzgaC2FaAa+FC0crrzLSy0oY0q9LY0EMfHeRludk mUnX1Ru4u6Jc1km8l0NGWuvhvMtwGauosE+UAS5CRFLEOfmCZ9AknkN2EI8iJAiBd8qj erAkjYUzh3PXffksyeYpArLhCvertJZ0SACc+2tzEK87F89jM21OhiRk+bGnLYteXsaI 9/KO5LmlR3FkT74Mkl9LuaAaxa7zBIPWUVVAPKJLxP5IRHC/6u0ca5VGRZeDP9Vfqoxf z2jA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; 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-0700 Message-ID: To: David Mozes , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , sfc@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , NVO3 , "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=001a1146eeda8142b5054c99dde7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 20:57:01 -0000 --001a1146eeda8142b5054c99dde7 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1146eeda8142b3054c99dde6 --001a1146eeda8142b3054c99dde6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, please find my notes in-line tagged GIM2>>. Regards, Greg On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:32 AM, David Mozes wrote: > Greg , > > I have a lot to say on what you write below , but let put the discussion > in the right content. > > The main thing is: > > I think yours work and the OAM design team should be focus to define the > OAM related data and the OAM mechanism and there is a lot to do on this > area .and try to make it uniform on all the diffenet encapsulations > (NVO3,BEIR,SFC) and not dealing with the encapsulation itself. By this yo= u > mixed all things up and we will achieve nothing . > GIM2>> I feel that you assume that the proposed solution is for NVO3 only and thus had not thought about SFC and BIER. Dave Dolson had pointed out that the proposed solution is beneficial for SFC. > > > > > Specifically: > > 1)The extension header (container) concept was discussed on the encap > design team . the content was to make VXLN-GPE extendable (While it is no= t > by adding NSH header to it and was rejected because of the bytes overhea= d > (less bytes than your proposal). > Now you like to take encap protocol with build in extension and add to it > extension header ? what we will do with other extensions like security a= dd > extension header as well ? This doesn=E2=80=99t make sense and not neede= d in all > the cases > GIM2>> What are these cases that don't require active OAM? > 2) the total header length on the base header is important and help for > parsing in all the cases especially when you don=E2=80=99t like to deal w= ith the > extensions . > > 3) 8 bytes overhead is important > GIM2>> To be precise, if I look at TLV-based approach then the difference is, at most, 4 bytes. > 4)and adding ether type to the parsing graph is costly and can complicate > things especially if you need to parse options(TLV) before > GIM2>> What EtherType? Who says that active OAM must be combined with TLVs? The benefit, in my opinion, of using Overlay Associated Channel, is that it is self-contained and processing can be offloaded once the packet was identified as OAC packet. > > > Thx > > David > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 10:44 PM > > *To:* David Mozes > *Cc:* Fioccola Giuseppe ; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 ; > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > Hi David, > > thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes > in-line and tagged GIM>>. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes wrote: > > Hi Greg , > > PSB > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM > *To:* David Mozes > *Cc:* Fioccola Giuseppe ; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 ; > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > Hi David, > > thank you for sharing your opinion. > > Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use > extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM? > > David> yes > > Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you think a > middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload? > > I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if it i= s > not addressed to it at all. > > David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ? so change the > draft to include just that . On the current draft I see all kinds of OAM > > GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Channel for an > overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or OAM. OA= M > methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performance > Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault > Management are: > > - failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continuity but may > include Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network; > - defect localization; > - Alarm Indication Signal; > - Remote Defect Indication. > > Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration, > Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required. > > Performance Measurement usually supports the following: > > - one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement; > - one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement; > - Synthetic Loss Measurement. > > Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually > combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations. > > The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set of > OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. I s= ee > such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I > believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually > used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. > On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects. > > > > > While I agree with you regarding Middle box and proactive OAM .The > same can be achieve with the protocol extensions > > Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable to use > of active OAM. > > David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include > extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions f= or > such protocol and not innovate extra header that use for protocols > without extensions. > > GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length header > mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some network= s > choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel header > with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as > common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation. > > > > David > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes wrote: > > Hi , > > I am not supporting the adoption > > I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol > > > > This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options the protocol is > supporting! > > > > This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the > extensions/options > > That node/middlbox don not need to be part of the extensions/ option ca= n > jump directly to the overlay by reading the base header length only > > > > Thx > > David > > > > *From:* nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fioccola > Giuseppe > *Sent:* Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM > *To:* Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 < > nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > *Subject:* [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > Hi All, > > I have read the draft and support its adoption. > > > > Regards, > > > > Giuseppe > > > > *Da:* nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org ] *Per > conto di *Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) > *Inviato:* venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35 > *A:* NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > *Oggetto:* [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > This email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam= -header-03 > in the NVO3 working group. > > > > Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list. > > Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an NVO3 > working group document. > > > > Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the draf= t. > > > > Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this > draft? > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see > RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)? > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to > > this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > > IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The > > document will not advance to the next stage until a response > > has been received from each author and each contributor. > > > > This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017. > > > > Regards > > > > Matthew and Sam > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle > persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante > dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualo= ra > abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d= i > darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua > distruzione, Grazie. > > *This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain > privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, > copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not > the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments an= d > advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.* > > *[image: rispetta l'ambiente]Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mai= l > se non =C3=A8 necessario.* > > > > > > > --001a1146eeda8142b3054c99dde6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi David,
please find my notes in-line tagged GIM2>= >.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:32 AM,= David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:

Greg ,

I have a lot to say on what you write below , but l= et put the discussion in the right content.

The main thing is:

I think yours work and the OAM design team should b= e focus to define the OAM related data and=C2=A0 the OAM mechanism and ther= e is a lot to do on this area .and try to make it uniform on all the diffenet encapsulations (NVO3,BEIR,SFC) and not dealing with th= e encapsulation itself. By this you mixed all things up and we will achieve= nothing .

GIM2>> =C2=A0I fee= l that you assume that the proposed solution is for NVO3 only and thus had = not thought about SFC and BIER. Dave Dolson had pointed out that the propos= ed solution is beneficial for SFC.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Specifically:

1)The extension header (container) concept was disc= ussed on the encap design team . the content was to make VXLN-GPE extendabl= e (While it is not by adding NSH=C2=A0 header to it and was rejected because of the bytes overhead (less bytes than your propo= sal).

Now you like to take encap pr= otocol with build=C2=A0 in extension and add to it extension header ?=C2=A0= what we will do with other extensions like security add extension header a= s well=C2=A0 ? This doesn=E2=80=99t make sense and not needed in all the cases

GIM2>> What are these cases that don&= #39;t require active OAM?=C2=A0

2) the total header length on the base header is im= portant and help for parsing in all the cases especially when you don=E2=80= =99t like to deal with the extensions .

3) 8 bytes overhead is important

GIM2>> To be precise, if I look at TLV-based ap= proach then the difference is, at most, 4 bytes.

4)and adding ether type to the parsing graph is cos= tly and can complicate things especially if you need to parse options(TLV)= =C2=A0 before=C2=A0

GIM2>> Wh= at EtherType? Who says that active OAM must be combined with TLVs? The bene= fit, in my opinion, of using Overlay Associated Channel, is that it is self= -contained and processing can be offloaded once the packet was identified a= s OAC packet.

=C2=A0

Thx

David

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 10:44 PM


To: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it&g= t;; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooam= dt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt= -rtgwg-ooam-header-03

=C2=A0

Hi David,

thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Plea= se find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>>.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:

Hi Greg=C2=A0 ,<= /p>

PSB

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM
To: David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com>
Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it&g= t;; Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org&g= t;; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt= -rtgwg-ooam-header-03

=C2=A0

Hi David,

thank you for sharing your opinion.

Could you please clarify your position. You propose = to use extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM?

David> yes

=C2=A0Let us look at proactive continuity check betw= een NVEs. Why you think a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?

I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look= into payload if it is not addressed to it at all.

David> Are you limit the header ju= st for proactive OAM ? =C2=A0so change the draft to include just that . On the current =C2=A0draft I see all kinds of OAM

GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduce= s Associated Channel for an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used= for signalling or OAM. OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Manag= ement and Performance Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault Management are:

  • failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continuity but may include = Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network;
  • defect localization;
  • Alarm Indication Signal;
  • Remote Defect Indication.

Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and= restoration, Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.<= u>

Performance Measurement usually supports the followi= ng:

  • one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement;
  • one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement;
  • Synthetic Loss Measurement.

Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM t= oolset, usually combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.=

The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to= create common set of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM an= d PM operations. I see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passiv= e OAM methods. I believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually used to perform mo= nitor network for defects and performance degradation. On-demand OAM tools = may be used to localize the defects.

=C2=A0

> While=C2=A0 I agree with you reg= arding =C2=A0Middle box and proactive OAM .The same can be achieve with the protocol extensions

Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refe= r to is applicable to use of active OAM.

David> I think if t= he WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include =C2=A0extension (Like GUE = and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions for such protocol and not innovate =C2=A0extra header =C2=A0that use for protocols = without extensions.

GIM>> I question your assumption that use of v= ariable length header mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. An= d since some networks choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associ= ated Channel header with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as common solution for either ty= pe of overlay encapsulation.

=C2=A0

David

Greg

=C2=A0

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:

Hi ,<= /span>

I am = not supporting the adoption

I thi= nk while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol

=C2= =A0

This = OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options=C2=A0 the protocol=C2=A0= =C2=A0 is supporting!

=C2= =A0

This = header also violate the number 1 requirements from the extensions/options= =C2=A0

That = node/middlbox=C2=A0 don not=C2=A0 need to be part of the extensions/ option= can jump directly=C2=A0 to the overlay by reading the base header length only

=C2= =A0

Thx

David

=C2= =A0

From:= nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giuseppe
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM
To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-= ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03

=C2=A0

Hi Al= l,

I hav= e read the draft and support its adoption.

=C2= =A0

Regar= ds,

=C2= =A0

Giuse= ppe

=C2= =A0

Da: nvo3 [= mailto:nvo3-boun= ces@ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35
A: NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooa= mdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03

=C2=A0

This= email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-= header-03 in the NVO3 working group.

=C2= =A0

Plea= se review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.

Plea= se also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an NVO3 worki= ng group document.

=C2= =A0

Simu= ltaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the draft.

=C2= =A0

Auth= ors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this draft?<= /span>

=C2= =A0

If s= o, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs = 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?

=C2= =A0

If y= ou are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond to=

this= email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant

IPR.= The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The

docu= ment will not advance to the next stage until a response

has = been received from each author and each contributor.

=C2= =A0

This= poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.

=C2= =A0

Rega= rds

=C2= =A0

Matt= hew and Sam

Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizza= ti esclusivamente alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigoro= samente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete= cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di pro= vvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments=C2=A0is=C2=A0confidential and may contain = privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pr= inting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended = recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the se= nder by return e-mail, Thanks.

3D"rispetta= Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.<= /b>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--001a1146eeda8142b3054c99dde6-- --001a1146eeda8142b5054c99dde7 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: 734d5321e2fbe09f_0.1 R0lGODlhGgAoANU5AEiFNnikNyRvNcvYOafCOEOEW3DO3jB2NqjGs9ny9o+zOIOrN+L1+G+ggbzo 8GCUN1SNNv///zx+NrPJOL/ROYPV44zY5YuzmrfQwCZxQlKNaMXZzOfy8NTi2TV6TuLs5vX8/ez5 +4yzmtTj2cXr8mCXdKni62ycN5/f6aDf6X2qjrPl7rLl7Zu6OJbb53nS4PH188bs8sXZzfH18pq9 p0SDWxhnNWbL3NfgOf///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH5BAEAADkALAAAAAAaACgAAAb/wJxw SBQ6WMWkMmm6kZbQ5OvmjFoT1JuBYYWmsrcXqJvEgm8WctFypnI66pyjfXMhCmqGgR4r2S5dIBV0 FjI2h3BRX20VHAUCEjZ4UHNtFo42BA+HCEskbQYOIwU2CjgBNgAZM0kMbSYcIjYCBDg4LTYLf0V6 YCghNBk2DwO2OASZqkS9VBYMCB6pE8bGucidOYJUoaOptdQTFDg2ATgHGkIs2wyyAqbUtgICCwfl uh8ge1sNNhDF8LYiHYKAg4INBJUS8FsAEF6AA6lsHWjg4gYKDDZONGwIAIAtCAX2hPAgYSNHj6ds 3KiA8V3DAQGm2epoS4HKFQ0EmMRhc97Mwge2kN1IoIGgyQECD5wQUO6YygTkdtpCdSgqDl0VoDaV OmDBpm+oTCQoABQgBZfGbIrDAUBDAgcNDnDs98/WA504Buxa0RKgzVkB/h0oi+pDjgQhHtU1RgDi oY6l8gpAJyTBCBsSFtuC6XjWTBuJhIRAgFkmwAmoAkM4mCQCBmEB1sIDIKAFRGytYfDrt4CAuAkn qnrYYCXCBxGkqlYtgbtLhOcbMNSw0SBOEmg2VFj/sGHDhRLCNBC3fqFqARWhowQBADs= --001a1146eeda8142b5054c99dde7-- From nobody Sun Apr 9 19:00:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87459129405; 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10 Apr 2017 01:59:51 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (xch-rtp-018.cisco.com [64.101.220.158]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3A1xpfk010113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Apr 2017 01:59:51 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-018.cisco.com (64.101.220.158) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 21:59:50 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 21:59:50 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Greg Mirsky CC: David Mozes , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "sfc@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , NVO3 , "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 Thread-Index: AQHSrqf5WceqzCP3V0C9KzvolVDqmqG6qLQAgAN5UAA= Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 01:59:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <16320f45864d445f9a1bc3463d0c6352@TELMBXB02RM001.telecomitalia.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.217.90] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sun, 09 Apr 2017 19:07:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.39.167 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 19:07:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 19:07:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Cc: David Mozes , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , NVO3 , "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" , Fioccola Giuseppe , sfc@ietf.org, bier@ietf.org, "rtgwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134f93c3b18da054cc67189 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 02:07:54 -0000 --001a1134f93c3b18da054cc67189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carlos, if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, agreed on, then, I believe, we only had to check if the proposed solution addresses one of the requirements. I strongly believe that having OAM requirements as working document, not necessarily to be published, is very helpful. But I'm surprised that you suggest that defect indication, in peer and multi-layer OAM interworking in not required. You're co-author of OAM requirements draft in SPRING WG that has the following requirement: REQ#11: When SR OAM is initialized from centralized controller, it MUST have the ability to alert any edge node in SR domain about the corresponding path or service failure. The node on receiving the alert MAY take a local protection action or pop an informational message. Isn't that the functionality that is exactly supported by RDI and AIS? Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that you are co-author ed, I find this: 10. BIER OAM MUST support Reverse Defect Indication (RDI) notification of the source of continuity checking BFR by Bit- Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.g. by using Diag in p2mp BFD with active tail support. and this 13. BIER OAM MUST support defect notification mechanism, like Alarm Indication Signal. Any BFR in the given BIER domain MAY originate a defect notification addressed to any subset of BFRs within the domain. You don't agree with these requirements? Regards, Greg On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a couple thoughts= , inline. > > > On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes > in-line and tagged GIM>>. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes > wrote: > > Hi Greg , > > > > PSB > > > > > > > > From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM > > To: David Mozes > > Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe ; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 ; > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > thank you for sharing your opinion. > > > > Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use > extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM? > > > > David> yes > > > > Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you think = a > middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload? > > > > I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if it > is not addressed to it at all. > > > > David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ? so change the > draft to include just that . On the current draft I see all kinds of OAM > > > > GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Channel for > an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or OAM. > > Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, on a = covert > channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address the > requirements? > > > OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performanc= e > Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault > Management are: > > =E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Continu= ity but > may include Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network= ; > > =E2=80=A2 defect localization; > > =E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal; > > =E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication. > > I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to move > into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AIS / > RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers. > > > Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration, > Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required. > > Performance Measurement usually supports the following: > > =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement; > > =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement; > > =E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement. > > Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually > combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations. > > The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set > of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. = I > see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I > believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually > used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. > On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects. > > > > The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change... > > > > > > While I agree with you regarding Middle box and proactive OAM .The > same can be achieve with the protocol extensions > > > > Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable to > use of active OAM. > > > > David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include > extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions fo= r > such protocol and not innovate extra header that use for protocols > without extensions. > > > > GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length header > mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some network= s > choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel header > with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as > common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation. > > > > > > I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessary > overhead. > > Support-- > > Carlos. > > > > > David > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes > wrote: > > > > Hi , > > > > I am not supporting the adoption > > > > I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protocol > > > > > > > > This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options the protocol i= s > supporting! > > > > > > > > This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the > extensions/options > > > > That node/middlbox don not need to be part of the extensions/ option > can jump directly to the overlay by reading the base header length only > > > > > > > > Thx > > > > David > > > > > > > > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giusepp= e > > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM > > To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 < > nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have read the draft and support its adoption. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > Da: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew > (Nokia - GB) > > Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35 > > A: NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > This email begins a two week poll for adoption of > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 in the NVO3 working group. > > > > > > > > Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list. > > > > Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an > NVO3 working group document. > > > > > > > > Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the > draft. > > > > > > > > Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to this > draft? > > > > > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)? > > > > > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond t= o > > > > this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > > > > IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The > > > > document will not advance to the next stage until a response > > > > has been received from each author and each contributor. > > > > > > > > This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Matthew and Sam > > > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle > persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante > dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualo= ra > abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d= i > darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua > distruzione, Grazie. > > > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain > privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, > copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not > the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments an= d > advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > > > Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =C3= =A8 > necessario. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nvo3 mailing list > > nvo3@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > --001a1134f93c3b18da054cc67189 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Carlos,
if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.= e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, agreed on, then, I believe, we only had to check if= the proposed solution addresses one of the requirements. I strongly believ= e that having OAM requirements as working document, not necessarily to be p= ublished, is very helpful.
But I'm surprised that you suggest= that defect indication, in peer and multi-layer OAM interworking in not re= quired. You're co-author of OAM requirements draft in SPRING WG that ha= s the following requirement:
=
   REQ#11:  When SR OAM is initialized from centralized controller, it
            MUST have the ability to alert any edge node in SR domain
            about the corresponding path or service failure.  The node
            on receiving the alert MAY take a local protection action or
            pop an informational message.
Isn't that the functionality that is exactly supported= by RDI and AIS?
Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that y= ou are co-author ed, I find this:
   10.  BIER OAM MUST support Re=
verse Defect Indication (RDI)
        notification of the source of continuity checking BFR by Bit-
        Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.g. by using Diag in p2mp
        BFD with active tail support.
and this
   13.  BIER OAM MUST support defect not=
ification mechanism, like Alarm
        Indication Signal.  Any BFR in the given BIER domain MAY
        originate a defect notification addressed to any subset of BFRs
        within the domain.
You don't agree with these requirements?
Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (c= pignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a cou= ple thoughts, inline.

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
> thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes i= n-line and tagged GIM>>.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
> Hi Greg=C2=A0 ,
>
> PSB
>
>
>
> From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gre= gimirsky@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM
> To: David Mozes <davidm@mell= anox.com>
> Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>; Bocci, Matthew (= Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@no= kia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooa= mdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-r= tgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> thank you for sharing your opinion.
>
> Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use extensions/= options for end-to-end active OAM?
>
> David> yes
>
>=C2=A0 Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you = think a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?
>
> I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if i= t is not addressed to it at all.
>
> David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ?=C2=A0 so c= hange the draft to include just that . On the current=C2=A0 draft I see all= kinds of OAM
>
> GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Chann= el for an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or= OAM.

Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, = on a covert channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address th= e requirements?

> OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Performan= ce Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault Mana= gement are:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually detecti= on of Loss of Continuity but may include Mis-connection defect as well for = connection-oriented network;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 defect localization;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication.

I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to= move into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AIS= / RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers.

> Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration, Prot= ection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.
> Performance Measurement usually supports the following:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Loss me= asurement;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Delay m= easurement;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement.
> Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually co= mbines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.
> The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common set= of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. I= see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I b= elieve that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually use= d to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. On-de= mand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects.
>

The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change...

>
> > While=C2=A0 I agree with you regarding=C2=A0 Middle box and proac= tive OAM .The same can be achieve with the protocol extensions
>
> Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable= to use of active OAM.
>
> David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include= =C2=A0 extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensio= ns for such protocol and not innovate=C2=A0 extra header=C2=A0 that use for= protocols without extensions.
>
> GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length hea= der mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some netwo= rks choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel heade= r with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as com= mon solution for either type of overlay encapsulation.
>
>

I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessa= ry overhead.

Support--

Carlos.

>
> David
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
>
> Hi ,
>
> I am not supporting the adoption
>
> I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protoco= l
>
>
>
> This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options=C2=A0 the protoc= ol=C2=A0 =C2=A0is supporting!
>
>
>
> This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the extensions= /options
>
> That node/middlbox=C2=A0 don not=C2=A0 need to be part of the extensio= ns/ option can jump directly=C2=A0 to the overlay by reading the base heade= r length only
>
>
>
> Thx
>
> David
>
>
>
> From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounc= es@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giuseppe
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM
> To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-oo= amdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have read the draft and support its adoption.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Giuseppe
>
>
>
> Da: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces= @ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
> Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35
> A: NVO3; dr= aft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamd= t-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
>
>
>
> This email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-o= oam-header-03 in the NVO3 working group.
>
>
>
> Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list.
>
> Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an N= VO3 working group document.
>
>
>
> Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the d= raft.
>
>
>
> Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to thi= s draft?
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (= see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond = to
>
> this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>
> IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The >
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response
>
> has been received from each author and each contributor.
>
>
>
> This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Matthew and Sam
>
> Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente all= e persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante= dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualor= a abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati d= i darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distru= zione, Grazie.
>
> This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil= eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying= , printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the inten= ded recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise th= e sender by return e-mail, Thanks.
>
> <image001.gif>Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare = questa mail se non =C3=A8 necessario.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nvo3 mailing list
> nvo3@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3

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sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D857E129536; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 09:47:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Liaison Statement Management Tool To: "Jim Guichard" , "Thomas Narten" Cc: Alvaro Retana , hroh@tta.or.kr, Deborah Brungard , Zhiyuan.Hu@alcatel-sbell.com.cn, Joel Halpern , Scott Mansfield , jhbaek@kisa.or.kr, Service Function Chaining Discussion List , Alia Atlas , Jim Guichard , icezzoco@gmail.com, itu-t-liaison@iab.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.49.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149192926987.15670.5300405812153390359.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 09:47:49 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 09:05:08 -0700 Subject: [sfc] New Liaison Statement, "LS on ongoing ITU-T Q2/17 and Q6/17 work on security aspects for the software-defined networking" X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:47:50 -0000 Title: LS on ongoing ITU-T Q2/17 and Q6/17 work on security aspects for the software-defined networking Submission Date: 2017-04-11 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1515/ From: Hu Zhiyuan To: Jim Guichard , Thomas Narten Cc: Alvaro Retana ,Deborah Brungard ,Joel Halpern ,Scott Mansfield ,Service Function Chaining Discussion List ,Alia Atlas ,Jim Guichard ,itu-t-liaison@iab.org Response Contacts: hroh@tta.or.kr, Zhiyuan.Hu@alcatel-sbell.com.cn, jhbaek@kisa.or.kr, icezzoco@gmail.com Technical Contacts: Purpose: For information Body: ITU-T SG17 is pleased to inform you of the progress of SDN security work in its Q2/17 and Q6/17. We are currently developing two SDN-related work items: X.sdnsec-1 and X.sdnsec-3. X.sdnsec-3 was established at the March 2017 SG17 meeting. In the spirit of our continuous and ongoing collaboration, we look forward to your feedback and further collaboration. Attachments: - Revision of draft Recommendation X.sdnsec-1: Security services using the software-defined networking (TD 336). - New work item of X.sdnsec-3: Security guideline of Service Function Chain based on software defined network (TD 335). Attachments: Revision of draft Recommendation X.sdnsec-1: Security services using the software-defined networking (TD 336). https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2017-04-11-itu-t-sg-17-sfc-ls-on-ongoing-itu-t-q217-and-q617-work-on-security-aspects-for-the-software-defined-networking-attachment-1.pdf New work item of X.sdnsec-3: Security guideline of Service Function Chain based on software defined network (TD 335) https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2017-04-11-itu-t-sg-17-sfc-ls-on-ongoing-itu-t-q217-and-q617-work-on-security-aspects-for-the-software-defined-networking-attachment-2.pdf From nobody Wed Apr 12 09:05:16 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828221250B8; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 19:16:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, 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ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 Apr 2017 02:16:52 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-016.cisco.com (xch-rtp-016.cisco.com [64.101.220.156]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3C2Gqpg015661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Apr 2017 02:16:52 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-016.cisco.com (64.101.220.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 22:16:51 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 22:16:51 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Greg Mirsky CC: David Mozes , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , NVO3 , "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" , Fioccola Giuseppe , "sfc@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "spring-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 Thread-Index: AQHSsZ9BJbZPpRdrXkyy2+E4i4mIcKHBRYCA Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 02:16:51 +0000 Message-ID: <9BC52F60-6E9A-4594-AC95-4F0186BF81D4@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.243.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7AB474E315B0044FB895D9DDBD152CC3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 09:05:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [sfc] [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 02:16:58 -0000 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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7OVUMC9PGfxc; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 147D71242F5; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id f22so18028718oib.2; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LNaUwXEJCTGJMDdV6W5oayECYel2/o0lyswoQsVd0Gg=; b=qhX6DT/XBRg6nvkzNyCg5mkAEEkJ9p6X2U3StE792dkAan8MjRU6nkO84DGNjd49rZ U457RvStxJ+0RAq98eKGW43gDMvpbsMknCoemEd+8gTrkvrnAPMcmUHR+to+uEW91FEG QNv7Nw9jiyRW03B5arJNB+GYGVBQ8iboGq4wRKu5DCf7cQtPFGA1srni+O2sVJrFcFhd cRs1RqgFLTHxhW1/gmi+Rgtar4M9bLuRwuy37JYao/qFYzt4TW3vAqN4qblm+DkM6Yde zz61FNjf5bjFtIrz6T7cHavB3+n/ngcfiKozb7pdlk4HxpGHu0NwtEVjobOQO1FIauxT MUKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LNaUwXEJCTGJMDdV6W5oayECYel2/o0lyswoQsVd0Gg=; b=OxlPEBcmWDKarYpP2ORQxD1BJOLC/SwSAqJ8hKc/+XE1wNKpVGhNlIZP/6XcS2n6yx GD16UQHURNRSGpsMuwu430wPK4CvAMINiADgUWaXUXPxVepLS9kvoiw7oN80SyasL2tR BiOtlFoMghI19k/sQ7Qw941YhcQy7fobBmvYqp3u5B//cC98JUMN4r4zp8Kk2K1JwDaZ t5LnxBYvYnMdzTyTnNf04XO2mCcyp3pygFMftzWp/bWK3frBYJItft/Jb69kcoUljmk/ hM40IWx0spfQ+lPAiqESJN+SroDWBcee9JkcSMy0e+7s2cc6P0Kt/MNMXUm9R1HWXmF9 80nw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7hTWZzuc/EcY5/eHvKMdCxSdwWustD6AG2/Wyk1N8i/rV/vPWctIkAX3kDo57gTuoN0aVBWVGS+Ltq9Q== X-Received: by 10.157.12.42 with SMTP id 39mr6143830otr.35.1491966669388; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.39.165 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9BC52F60-6E9A-4594-AC95-4F0186BF81D4@cisco.com> References: <9BC52F60-6E9A-4594-AC95-4F0186BF81D4@cisco.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 20:11:08 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" Cc: David Mozes , "Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)" , NVO3 , "draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org" , Fioccola Giuseppe , "sfc@ietf.org" , "bier@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , spring-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c04f09c58828f054cef8fb5 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 09:05:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [sfc] [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 03:11:14 -0000 --94eb2c04f09c58828f054cef8fb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carlos, as you've noted, this is WG adoption call, not WG last call. I'll let others to decide whether the proposed Overlay Associated Channel which, borrowing from RFC 7212, "provides an auxiliary logical data channel associated with" an instance of the overlay network "over which a variety of protocols may flow" enables design and development of Overlay OAM protocols to be re-useable among Overlay networks. Regards, Greg On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > Greg, > > I am providing some follow-ups below, but I will top-post note that you > completely missed responding to the key issues raised: what problem is th= is > really attempting to solve? what is gained by this extra overhead and > indirection? what is overlay-specific in this header? > > After this email, since I believe I made my points already, I will let > others comment. > > Please see inline=E2=80=A6 > > > On Apr 9, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > > Hi Carlos, > > if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, > agreed on > > This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of WG operations by you, if I > follow your logic correctly. > > An existing Internet-Draft under a WG control means that at some point th= e > WG thought it useful to work on that problem, and the WG charter allowed > for that scope. It does *not* mean that every word and every sentence is > agreed by the WG, or that they even make sense. [RFC 2418], [RFC 7221] > Agreement is via consensus. > > With that context in mind... > > > , then, I believe, we only had to check if the proposed solution > addresses one of the requirements. I strongly believe that having OAM > requirements as working document, not necessarily to be published, is ver= y > helpful. > > But I'm surprised that you suggest that defect indication, in peer and > multi-layer OAM interworking in not required. You're co-author of OAM > requirements draft in SPRING WG that has the following requirement: > > Interestingly, after a dialogue with one of the spring chairs in Chicago, > I emailed the spring chairs (Cc=E2=80=99ed on this note) and draft contri= butors > alias stating that there=E2=80=99s really no value on that document. On t= hat email > thread, you were the only dissenting voice trying to hold on to that > document. > > Now, is SPRING also an overlay for which you suggest > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header has a solution? The MPLS, IPv6 encap, or > both? I=E2=80=99d love to know, since you had previously said =E2=80=9CNV= O3, SFC, BIER=E2=80=9D (a > rather capricious choice, apparently) > > You seem to have missed the main point I was making here though: since > operators said in IETF95=E2=80=99s rtgwg meeting they want more tracerout= e-like and > less traditional-like tools, are you ignoring operational needs? > > > REQ#11: When SR OAM is initialized from centralized controller, it > > MUST have the ability to alert any edge node in SR domain > > about the corresponding path or service failure. The node > > on receiving the alert MAY take a local protection action o= r > > pop an informational message. > > > > I=E2=80=99ve rarely seen solutions evaluated against requirements, unless > hand-picked requirements were reverse-engineered from solutions. > > > Isn't that the functionality that is exactly supported by RDI and AIS? > > As it is the case here it seems to me. > > > Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that you are co-author ed, I > find this: > > Similarly, it is funny to see the (lack of) differences and progress > between 2015=E2=80=99s draft-mirsky-bier-oam-requirements-00 and > draft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-03: > > https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-bier- > oam-requirements-03.txt&url1=3Ddraft-mirsky-bier-oam-requirements-00.txt > > Content differences are effectively null. Do you really insist in calling > that WG agreement? > > > > 10. BIER OAM MUST support Reverse Defect Indication (RDI) > > notification of the source of continuity checking BFR by Bit- > > Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.g. by using Diag in p2mp > > BFD with active tail support. > > > > and this > > 13. BIER OAM MUST support defect notification mechanism, like Alarm > > Indication Signal. Any BFR in the given BIER domain MAY > > originate a defect notification addressed to any subset of BFRs > > within the domain. > > > > You don't agree with these requirements? > > > > It=E2=80=99s odd, those requirements read to me like =E2=80=9CI require t= his solution=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 > not real requirements=E2=80=A6 > > And these are not the things I hear operators need. No. > > Best, > > =E2=80=94 Carlos. > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) < > cpignata@cisco.com> wrote: > > David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a couple though= ts, > inline. > > > > > On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote= : > > > > > > Hi David, > > > thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my notes > in-line and tagged GIM>>. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Greg > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes > wrote: > > > Hi Greg , > > > > > > PSB > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM > > > To: David Mozes > > > Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe ; Bocci, > Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 ; > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > thank you for sharing your opinion. > > > > > > Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use > extensions/options for end-to-end active OAM? > > > > > > David> yes > > > > > > Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why you thin= k > a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload? > > > > > > I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload if > it is not addressed to it at all. > > > > > > David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ? so change > the draft to include just that . On the current draft I see all kinds of > OAM > > > > > > GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated Channel fo= r > an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalling or OAM. > > > > Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, on = a covert > channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address the > requirements? > > > > > OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and > Performance Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive > Fault Management are: > > > =E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually detection of Loss of Conti= nuity but > may include Mis-connection defect as well for connection-oriented network= ; > > > =E2=80=A2 defect localization; > > > =E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal; > > > =E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication. > > > > I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to > move into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AI= S > / RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers. > > > > > Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration, > Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required. > > > Performance Measurement usually supports the following: > > > =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Loss measurement; > > > =E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Delay measurement; > > > =E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement. > > > Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usually > combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations. > > > The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create common se= t > of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operations. = I > see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods. I > believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usually > used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. > On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects. > > > > > > > The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change... > > > > > > > > > While I agree with you regarding Middle box and proactive OAM .Th= e > same can be achieve with the protocol extensions > > > > > > Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is applicable to > use of active OAM. > > > > > > David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that include > extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in extensions fo= r > such protocol and not innovate extra header that use for protocols > without extensions. > > > > > > GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable length header > mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some network= s > choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel header > with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, as > common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation. > > > > > > > > > > I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessary > overhead. > > > > Support-- > > > > Carlos. > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes > wrote: > > > > > > Hi , > > > > > > I am not supporting the adoption > > > > > > I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap protoc= ol > > > > > > > > > > > > This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options the protocol > is supporting! > > > > > > > > > > > > This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the > extensions/options > > > > > > That node/middlbox don not need to be part of the extensions/ optio= n > can jump directly to the overlay by reading the base header length only > > > > > > > > > > > > Thx > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola > Giuseppe > > > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM > > > To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) ; NVO3 < > nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > > Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I have read the draft and support its adoption. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Giuseppe > > > > > > > > > > > > Da: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew > (Nokia - GB) > > > Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35 > > > A: NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org > > > Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 > > > > > > > > > > > > This email begins a two week poll for adoption of > draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03 in the NVO3 working group. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list. > > > > > > Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as an > NVO3 working group document. > > > > > > > > > > > > Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to the > draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies to > this draft? > > > > > > > > > > > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)? > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please respond > to > > > > > > this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > > > > > > IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. The > > > > > > document will not advance to the next stage until a response > > > > > > has been received from each author and each contributor. > > > > > > > > > > > > This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew and Sam > > > > > > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente > alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione > derivante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente > vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete > cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di > provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie. > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain > privileged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, > copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not > the intended recipient, please delete this message and any attachments an= d > advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks. > > > > > > Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non = =C3=A8 > necessario. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nvo3 mailing list > > > nvo3@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 > > > > > > --94eb2c04f09c58828f054cef8fb5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Carlos,
as you've noted, this is WG adoption ca= ll, not WG last call.
I'll let others to decide whether the p= roposed Overlay Associated Channel which, borrowing from RFC 7212, "provides an auxiliary=C2= =A0logical data= channel associated with" an instance of the overlay network "over which a varie= ty of protocols may=C2=A0flow" enables design and development of Overlay OAM protocol= s to be re-useable among Overlay networks.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:1= 6 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrot= e:
Greg,

I am providing some follow-ups below, but I will top-post note that you com= pletely missed responding to the key issues raised: what problem is this re= ally attempting to solve? what is gained by this extra overhead and indirec= tion? what is overlay-specific in this header?

After this email, since I believe I made my points already, I will let othe= rs comment.

Please see inline=E2=80=A6

> On Apr 9, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Carlos,
> if we had the OAM requirements that WGs, i.e. NVO3, SFC, and BIER, agr= eed on

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of WG operations by you, i= f I follow your logic correctly.

An existing Internet-Draft under a WG control means that at some point the = WG thought it useful to work on that problem, and the WG charter allowed fo= r that scope. It does *not* mean that every word and every sentence is agre= ed by the WG, or that they even make sense. [RFC 2418], [RFC 7221] Agreemen= t is via consensus.

With that context in mind...

> , then, I believe, we only had to check if the proposed solution addre= sses one of the requirements. I strongly believe that having OAM requiremen= ts as working document, not necessarily to be published, is very helpful. > But I'm surprised that you suggest that defect indication, in peer= and multi-layer OAM interworking in not required. You're co-author of = OAM requirements draft in SPRING WG that has the following requirement:

Interestingly, after a dialogue with one of the spring chairs in Chi= cago, I emailed the spring chairs (Cc=E2=80=99ed on this note) and draft co= ntributors alias stating that there=E2=80=99s really no value on that docum= ent. On that email thread, you were the only dissenting voice trying to hol= d on to that document.

Now, is SPRING also an overlay for which you suggest draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooa= m-header has a solution? The MPLS, IPv6 encap, or both? I=E2=80=99d love to= know, since you had previously said =E2=80=9CNVO3, SFC, BIER=E2=80=9D (a r= ather capricious choice, apparently)

You seem to have missed the main point I was making here though: since oper= ators said in IETF95=E2=80=99s rtgwg meeting they want more traceroute-like= and less traditional-like tools, are you ignoring operational needs?

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 REQ#11:=C2=A0 When SR OAM is initialized from centralized= controller, it
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST have the ability t= o alert any edge node in SR domain
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0about the corresponding= path or service failure.=C2=A0 The node
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on receiving the alert = MAY take a local protection action or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pop an informational me= ssage.
>

I=E2=80=99ve rarely seen solutions evaluated against requirements, u= nless hand-picked requirements were reverse-engineered from solutions.

> Isn't that the functionality that is exactly supported by RDI and = AIS?

As it is the case here it seems to me.

> Then in BIER WG adopted OAM Requirements, that you are co-author ed, I= find this:

Similarly, it is funny to see the (lack of) differences and progress= between 2015=E2=80=99s draft-mirsky-bier-oam-requirements-00 and draf= t-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-03:

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddr= aft-ietf-bier-oam-requirements-03.txt&url1=3Ddraft-mirsky-bie= r-oam-requirements-00.txt

Content differences are effectively null. Do you really insist in calling t= hat WG agreement?


>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 10.=C2=A0 BIER OAM MUST support Reverse Defect Indication= (RDI)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0notification of the source of continu= ity checking BFR by Bit-
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Forwarding Egress Routers (BFERs), e.= g. by using Diag in p2mp
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BFD with active tail support.
>
> and this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 13.=C2=A0 BIER OAM MUST support defect notification mecha= nism, like Alarm
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Indication Signal.=C2=A0 Any BFR in t= he given BIER domain MAY
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originate a defect notification addre= ssed to any subset of BFRs
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0within the domain.
>
> You don't agree with these requirements?
>

It=E2=80=99s odd, those requirements read to me like =E2=80=9CI requ= ire this solution=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6 not real requirements=E2=80=A6

And these are not the things I hear operators need. No.

Best,

=E2=80=94 Carlos.

> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
> David responded to this, though I=E2=80=99d like to add a couple thoug= hts, inline.
>
> > On Apr 5, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> > thank you for your detailed follow-up comments. Please find my no= tes in-line and tagged GIM>>.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:54 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
> > Hi Greg=C2=A0 ,
> >
> > PSB
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 2:23 AM
> > To: David Mozes <davidm= @mellanox.com>
> > Cc: Fioccola Giuseppe <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>; Bocci, Matt= hew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.boc= ci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.o= rg>; draf= t-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-ooa= mdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > thank you for sharing your opinion.
> >
> > Could you please clarify your position. You propose to use extens= ions/options for end-to-end active OAM?
> >
> > David> yes
> >
> >=C2=A0 Let us look at proactive continuity check between NVEs. Why= you think a middlebox needs to be aware of the OAM payload?
> >
> > I believe that a transient NVO3 node should not look into payload= if it is not addressed to it at all.
> >
> > David> Are you limit the header just for proactive OAM ?=C2=A0= so change the draft to include just that . On the current=C2=A0 draft I se= e all kinds of OAM
> >
> > GIM>> I want to point that the draft introduces Associated = Channel for an overlay network. Associated Channel may be used for signalli= ng or OAM.
>
> Whoa=E2=80=A6 what problem are we solving? Inline signaling of OAM, on= a covert channel? As if we do not have enough ways already to address the = requirements?
>
> > OAM methods enable operators to perform Fault Management and Perf= ormance Monitoring. Among functions required to perform comprehensive Fault= Management are:
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 failure detection, usually de= tection of Loss of Continuity but may include Mis-connection defect as well= for connection-oriented network;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 defect localization;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Alarm Indication Signal;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Remote Defect Indication.
>
> I thought one strong point made quite a few times by operators is to m= ove into less-ATM-like OAMs and more into traceroute-like tools. Less AIS /= RDIs and more treetrace and udp singers.
>
> > Depending on the requirements towards resiliency and restoration,= Protection Switchover Coordination protocol may be required.
> > Performance Measurement usually supports the following:
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet Lo= ss measurement;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 one-way and two-way Packet De= lay measurement;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Synthetic Loss Measurement. > > Service Activation Protocol, as part of active OAM toolset, usual= ly combines OAM functions from FM and PM operations.
> > The goal of Overlay OAM work, as I understand, is to create commo= n set of OAM protocols that supports all of listed above FM and PM operatio= ns. I see such set as combination of active, hybrid and passive OAM methods= . I believe that the draft states that clearly. The proactive OAM is usuall= y used to perform monitor network for defects and performance degradation. = On-demand OAM tools may be used to localize the defects.
> >
>
> The temperature of the ocean does not seem to change...
>
> >
> > > While=C2=A0 I agree with you regarding=C2=A0 Middle box and = proactive OAM .The same can be achieve with the protocol extensions
> >
> > Thus I don't agree that the requirement you refer to is appli= cable to use of active OAM.
> >
> > David> I think if the WG decide on NVO3 encap protocol that in= clude=C2=A0 extension (Like GUE and Geneve) we have to use the build in ext= ensions for such protocol and not innovate=C2=A0 extra header=C2=A0 that us= e for protocols without extensions.
> >
> > GIM>> I question your assumption that use of variable lengt= h header mandates how OAM, active OAM, must be implemented. And since some = networks choose to use fixed size header, using Overlay Associated Channel = header with multiplexed Overlay OAM functionality appears, in my opinion, a= s common solution for either type of overlay encapsulation.
> >
> >
>
> I still do not see how an overlay layer benefits from this unnecessary= overhead.
>
> Support--
>
> Carlos.
>
> >
> > David
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM, David Mozes <davidm@mellanox.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi ,
> >
> > I am not supporting the adoption
> >
> > I think while the working group decided on Geneve as the encap pr= otocol
> >
> >
> >
> > This OAM need to be via one of the extensions/options=C2=A0 the p= rotocol=C2=A0 =C2=A0is supporting!
> >
> >
> >
> > This header also violate the number 1 requirements from the exten= sions/options
> >
> > That node/middlbox=C2=A0 don not=C2=A0 need to be part of the ext= ensions/ option can jump directly=C2=A0 to the overlay by reading the base = header length only
> >
> >
> >
> > Thx
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > From: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fioccola Giuseppe
> > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:40 PM
> > To: Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB) <matthew.bocci@nokia.com>; NVO3 <nvo3@ietf.org>; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Subject: [nvo3] R: Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for dra= ft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have read the draft and support its adoption.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Giuseppe
> >
> >
> >
> > Da: nvo3 [mailto:nvo3-bo= unces@ietf.org] Per conto di Bocci, Matthew (Nokia - GB)
> > Inviato: venerd=C3=AC 31 marzo 2017 17:35
> > A: NVO3; draft-ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header@ietf.org
> > Oggetto: [nvo3] Poll for NVO3 WG adoption and IPR call for draft-= ooamdt-rtgwg-ooam-header-03
> >
> >
> >
> > This email begins a two week poll for adoption of draft-ooamdt-rt= gwg-ooam-header-03 in the NVO3 working group.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please review the draft and send any comments to the NVO3 list. > >
> > Please also indicate whether you support adoption of the draft as= an NVO3 working group document.
> >
> >
> >
> > Simultaneously, we are also poling for any IPR that may apply to = the draft.
> >
> >
> >
> > Authors and contributors, are you aware of any IPR that applies t= o this draft?
> >
> >
> >
> > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR ru= les (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details)?
> >
> >
> >
> > If you are listed as a document author or contributor, please res= pond to
> >
> > this email stating of whether or not you are aware of any relevan= t
> >
> > IPR. The response needs to be sent to the NVO3 WG mailing list. T= he
> >
> > document will not advance to the next stage until a response
> >
> > has been received from each author and each contributor.
> >
> >
> >
> > This poll closes on Friday 14th April 2017.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Matthew and Sam
> >
> > Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivament= e alle persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione deri= vante dalla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Q= ualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente preg= ati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua d= istruzione, Grazie.
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--94eb2c04f09c58828f054cef8fb5-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 11:57:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6106B12EB55 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D725VH4tZWtF for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DA0912EB53 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05396760040 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:57:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492023449; bh=GKQhVCl8apBZHDVEA9KT5s8Xz5MMWtu7nnoUV8CgRd4=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=GKhCULEc+cYrBRj7rDInVfLSmBjS782YPrfuPVSldCYrK/PIh9yU0QsQCmHJJ1ESu k1xXEC5K3XNlrPi54vRU8EDuhlfP+WdBe6KAxP9ZYiJ8Qf1VGB3VIiBLYu0Vyo6oej 0xarNPLguX4G1OI5usDIiBkF9AKurEin7QUVZDdA= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A20D476003F for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:57:28 -0700 (PDT) To: "sfc@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 14:57:27 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 18:57:30 -0000 This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to deprecate that bit. There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. Thank you, Joel (and Jim) From nobody Wed Apr 12 12:20:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7398C129649 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:20:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PLnjEqdHJE7A for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E7D7127077 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com (192.168.196.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:20:48 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:20:47 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76mw6BJbapv9kW5hTelYGGL6KHCG5Hw Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:20:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:20:51 -0000 Joel, One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement and te= st the TTL. Only SFFs ? -Dave -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email = serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field = to the NSH header. While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of= changing the NSH header to include a TTL. The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL= . And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. Th= e backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was dis= cussed, and seems workable. The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmi= ssion, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to depr= ecate that bit. There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested.=20 The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0, = thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any sp= ecial case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a TTL= of 255. Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying= to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are additional clar= ifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Working Gr= oup agreement. Thank you, Joel (and Jim) _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Wed Apr 12 12:31:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB8D1294EF for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kmSym-qxd231 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F33EC129649 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA82760085; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492025460; bh=4RaIdDOWHr8zcDXjJaSDuir3knyLn2S5pz0bzW8qtcg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=nnrqz2r9VHQyvkBAKfLU9HR4FwKxiteuGKp8x+tw3+gX3xIhGMqI0UvxaSQKdDNQq Bh5aLfHa/f4wD63C8llyJHO8+oaQoyd0X7dTa1OGg+1sLCMTEX6Ck/CqA5GVJQFDYm BBeq6r+2K12umteexe0Ffe+1tIGO9Q3Eb14IXiCQ= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7005A76007D; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Dave Dolson , "sfc@ietf.org" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:30:59 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:31:02 -0000 Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF and SF to decrement the TTL. Opinions? Joel On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > Joel, > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > -Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > To: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Wed Apr 12 12:47:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC3212778E for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:46:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIWomAlTnrza for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E98F1289B5 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 15:46:54 -0400 From: Kyle Larose To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Dave Dolson , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76mXPA98oyDRECYUxmvw5KWE6HCX1eAgAAC2YD//8Bo4A== Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:46:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.51] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:46:59 -0000 Should we make it a little abstract? "Any component that understands the NS= H header MUST decrement then test the TTL prior to forwarding it (or prior = to processing it?). If the TTL is zero when tested, the packet MUST be disc= arded?" That would then also cover SFC Proxies, for example.=20 That said, do we need a special discussion about proxies? I.e. do they main= tain the TTL for the same "packet" when it returns from the SFC unaware ser= vice function? > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 3:31 PM > To: Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >=20 > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF and S= F > to decrement the TTL. >=20 > Opinions? > Joel >=20 > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > Joel, > > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement an= d > test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > > > -Dave > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > > To: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this em= ail > serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL fiel= d > to the NSH header. > > > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in suppor= t > of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a > TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits= . > The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was > discussed, and seems workable. > > > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensu= s > to deprecate that bit. > > > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested= . > > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for= 0, > thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any > special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a > TTL of 255. > > > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are additio= nal > clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Work= ing > Group agreement. > > > > Thank you, > > Joel (and Jim) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Wed Apr 12 12:59:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9121294C3 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D0Idb52hWy3P for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 908551293FB for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id f22so44461855oib.2 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v/iAvwqzxHMQ5klaClzJX8VrigKgml//ncwM1AKoN34=; b=EMgj0DP2mhfczfBhvS/Q9hc9FCQQK7fufuT5QZ7z+T5OuGbzy83NvytfC13NGMJJ4f kfCdoY36+53FBSvCa8j/2qEOqMah4l4b7kzdsI7kVp+ePbrkvqSCnuyLQmFI8u8MHPJr 1D/3F3qBsJYUKLN/bBI73FbwikgJYoG9KekDt6SIOsQnrCIUXCIk+3uRlEfnqgEw0CYr op0pCGrCIR5hR0ZPpVGC2LgDWLxAdRzqctHyzJgp4l5R+ctV9tyVZ4FB9QihGbi8WSv4 xmPUHb58EMnuy2S24KRFuWrEbeVeQ3YQhFEBCVxrQdevw/8mAC5hJgbbtzJ86gyKDXei Atpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v/iAvwqzxHMQ5klaClzJX8VrigKgml//ncwM1AKoN34=; b=VrcV4ylK5eQPxhZY1+jsc1keULs+SPSUnpQm3VBOUWcv/SRGMX9HKI93JIpk687gX8 gwsxnBmaCxDUK6SAGmxgxApCJtvaPmEYXSxVbdGh83jbztXUfrcHZoxvI9VjpM8HM8dA oVEcy4e2DcimTzBHTCYuxGsLa2VHvRi009H615LO+GHgN930gzkAimCMKnwtpHrZORDV 9moG6ZiUSzp4nhkQk0/DAa3EOTFViGVeOjDvlvY936ejygwopOXydKu6/GUAS8PK8NXi yyOYjehj1uAoRlIPfL93NcQJZn8pnDPPhG6hQ3TbMAm5aEy93LMH2rm5JRkXxqTAys0b Bjtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5l54gmsRCgGYfHTtER3yVSWuvYX91Nb7tH/F7Ed0Y6pSbEJXOYs5qILQWYsim3FTKjPKfXN8zQ9GzWqQ== X-Received: by 10.157.12.42 with SMTP id 39mr8220986otr.35.1492027173941; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:59:33 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Dave Dolson , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c04f09cb2b820054cfda595 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:59:36 -0000 --94eb2c04f09cb2b820054cfda595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Joel, since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL expiration may be desired, engineered event. Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF and SF > to decrement the TTL. > > Opinions? > Joel > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > >> Joel, >> One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement and >> test the TTL. Only SFFs ? >> >> -Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM >> To: sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. >> The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. >> While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this >> email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL >> field to the NSH header. >> >> While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support >> of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. >> >> The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a >> TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. >> The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was >> discussed, and seems workable. >> >> The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: >> >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on >> transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus >> to deprecate that bit. >> >> There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. >> The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for >> 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any >> special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a >> TTL of 255. >> >> Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are >> trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are >> additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors >> reflect Working Group agreement. >> >> Thank you, >> Joel (and Jim) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --94eb2c04f09cb2b820054cfda595 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,
since we're introducing TTL, should we de= fine behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some sc= enario, e.g. OAM, TTL expiration may be desired, engineered event.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M= . Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
Good question.=C2=A0 My understanding was that the agreement= was for SFF and SF to decrement the TTL.

Opinions?
Joel


On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:
Joel,
One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement and te= st the TTL. Only SFFs ?

-Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion.
The chairs neglected to close off the discussion.
While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email = serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field = to the NSH header.

While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of= changing the NSH header to include a TTL.

The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL= .=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits= .=C2=A0 The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementatio= ns was discussed, and seems workable.

The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel:

=C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0|Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length= =C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Proto=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+

I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmi= ssion, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to depr= ecate that bit.

There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. =C2=A0 The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing fo= r 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without a= ny special case coding.=C2=A0 The default for originating an NSH header wil= l be a TTL of 255.

Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying= to get the document completed.=C2=A0 Also speak up if there are additional= clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Worki= ng Group agreement.

Thank you,
Joel (and Jim)

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--94eb2c04f09cb2b820054cfda595-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 13:28:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5E61296C9 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:28:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d_YK6M1iYOlG for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EACC7129AA6 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:28:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D478078003F; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:28:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492028887; bh=mewialfIEiZDsyq2ZRq2lzxOd7Z9HJg0AckZMO248Jo=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=PdoD6giMptI3ZUqyNG7FgtbgFUck6gm1pXOrjtZkS/euktRhHSvquJwfFOAUOVQP8 CJdHStL/z/OvSk5LS+BLuhrhB/HwF1aWlksw371vJpI3t0xgcMqV4ELVZxsNlIewHq SuZHzNf45qtpEFgo/SlHWM8q+PEOu8USbUy5kk5Q= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B871780039; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:28:07 -0700 (PDT) To: Greg Mirsky References: Cc: Dave Dolson , "sfc@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 16:28:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:28:10 -0000 I am not sure what you are asking for. I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort of ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional. If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL. Yours, Joel On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Joel, > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL > expiration may be desired, engineered event. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF > and SF to decrement the TTL. > > Opinions? > Joel > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > Joel, > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should > decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > -Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > To: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, > this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion > of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use > them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as > reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration > of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero > on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate > rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be > tested. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we > are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if > there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make > sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > From nobody Wed Apr 12 13:33:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F7812EB12 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:33:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EgVKkGnrH8Hm for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41A4012EB40 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.194.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 16:33:02 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 16:33:02 -0400 From: Kyle Larose To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Greg Mirsky CC: "sfc@ietf.org" , Dave Dolson Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76mXPA98oyDRECYUxmvw5KWE6HCX1eAgAAC2YCAAAf8gIAAB/oA//+9rgA= Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:33:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.51] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:33:12 -0000 Does the method by which we handle a TTL expiry, aside from drop, really ne= ed to be defined in the NSH spec? Later protocols or standards could always= extend the functionality, unless we phrase it to exclude future extensions= . Can we just avoid doing that? For example, imagine a traceroute like OAM message specification. Couldn't = we just say that in order to support it, any devices which drop the message= because of NSH ttl expiry must send a message back to the originator (cont= ained within the OAM payload)? No change to the NSH spec -- it simply exten= ds the existing functionality. > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:28 PM > To: Greg Mirsky > Cc: sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson > Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >=20 > I am not sure what you are asking for. > I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. >=20 > I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort o= f > ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more > importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional= . > If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years > delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL. >=20 > Yours, > Joel >=20 > On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Joel, > > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component > > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL > > expiration may be desired, engineered event. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: > > > > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF > > and SF to decrement the TTL. > > > > Opinions? > > Joel > > > > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > > > Joel, > > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should > > decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > > > -Dave > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > > ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > > To: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussio= n. > > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, > > this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion > > of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus i= n > > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use > > them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them a= s > > reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration > > of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 = 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +- > +-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto > | > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zer= o > > on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate > > rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should b= e > > tested. > > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as w= e > > are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if > > there are additional clarifications that we should have, to mak= e > > sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > > > Thank you, > > Joel (and Jim) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Wed Apr 12 13:46:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05939129AD7 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UPUFhLQRYtH1 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37C56129AA6 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id f22so45744156oib.2 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cor9smTIJ/cURtWSDDMxdUo+hCN3d5EB56rFQz0xW6Y=; b=iRX8VJe8qxlGW90X+JHF/55x3VadzMYaX7dr2nXeURo7KTaecP636DOf2WiAjr6DmD zfyvmPCHFbO1LYjQ/z/NOlxH70UL8oUjHzAqrlE1lM6vCd69+ya7I38eIwVE5cLsQGx3 uwnMHAmzzUfrpaVVaU2uvCf7TtSMXY4mVPVm6J6i69PkQG3bINepr5AFqAs1szXP0Z7j WEjyehOrlZxi3fE2guC47HIo7gwDhcdUFrXSoXT037KalMEG/mg6rIs0D0U2ehyZqfrk qQ3kdOoyuV1Nu6L0pmwaKPuOWignGG6PRMwomCp0X8c2UQCu0c6y0YZRIaTeQtAI5vm2 DTgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cor9smTIJ/cURtWSDDMxdUo+hCN3d5EB56rFQz0xW6Y=; b=hV93WKrsurwulT4IWQXrasrft5xz4yobRaBisUaD5h8fDhDbwn8QVuX71FMN8HybcT 8MZ5WOlnctKsj1DtGorwI/qzqn4sfX7Lpm6SqW8f9IbNDf0JfU62LpALcfdezM+HgJdJ J5hSH74XqJfnJP/KDWJ0zXlcI0lswMzB825+rlrVbe1Tl3moZPjqym2M1AHjKFPEITvJ 1iGV5sfquLSkqBsPaUoK2jc8gNYKKJpPVcSQ/W62dqX9zUGmVHR7Cz9NnBvptAFLsqY/ 6z3Wj19RhPtSslATTbS8UVHK9ioOMT8ASWqMBx2GrzoR+E8PnWGD8zdcUts8YJEN6jnR daaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5bgyY6Mq/qjZIGXDIxl43dejDLYn+9FZSTcCjSBQYdXZPHh2KAa4zqUmeWuWh/acUczrQP3L93IH99vQ== X-Received: by 10.157.42.82 with SMTP id t76mr11546559ota.40.1492029999551; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:46:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kyle Larose Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" , Dave Dolson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d09de1e28d7054cfe4e39 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:46:43 -0000 --001a113d09de1e28d7054cfe4e39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Kyle, I very much agree with your suggestion. I think that details of TTL Expiry handling could be deferred to another document. If the NSH document states that the packet with TTL of 0 MUST not be forwarded, that may be all we need. More details might be added "a packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed for processing to the appropriate network layer". Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Kyle Larose wrote: > Does the method by which we handle a TTL expiry, aside from drop, really > need to be defined in the NSH spec? Later protocols or standards could > always extend the functionality, unless we phrase it to exclude future > extensions. Can we just avoid doing that? > > For example, imagine a traceroute like OAM message specification. Couldn't > we just say that in order to support it, any devices which drop the message > because of NSH ttl expiry must send a message back to the originator > (contained within the OAM payload)? No change to the NSH spec -- it simply > extends the existing functionality. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:28 PM > > To: Greg Mirsky > > Cc: sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson > > Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > I am not sure what you are asking for. > > I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text > > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. > > > > I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort > of > > ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more > > importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not > bi-directional. > > If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years > > delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL. > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > Hi Joel, > > > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component > > > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL > > > expiration may be desired, engineered event. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Greg > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > > wrote: > > > > > > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF > > > and SF to decrement the TTL. > > > > > > Opinions? > > > Joel > > > > > > > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > > > > > Joel, > > > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should > > > decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > > > > > -Dave > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > > > ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > > > To: sfc@ietf.org > > > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful > discussion. > > > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > > > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, > > > this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion > > > of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > > > > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus > in > > > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > > > > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use > > > them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them > as > > > reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration > > > of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > > > > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > 0 1 > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > +-+ > > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto > > | > > > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be > zero > > > on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate > > > rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > > > > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should > be > > > tested. > > > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > > > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > > > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > > > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > > > > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as > we > > > are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if > > > there are additional clarifications that we should have, to > make > > > sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Joel (and Jim) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sfc mailing list > > > sfc@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sfc mailing list > > > sfc@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sfc mailing list > > > sfc@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a113d09de1e28d7054cfe4e39 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kyle,
I very much agree with your suggestion. I thi= nk that details of TTL Expiry handling =C2=A0could be deferred to another d= ocument. If the NSH document states that the packet with TTL of 0 MUST not = be forwarded, that may be all we need. More details might be added "a = packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed for processing to the appropria= te network layer".

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, = Apr 12, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Kyle Larose <klarose@sandvine.com> wrote:
Does the method by which we han= dle a TTL expiry, aside from drop, really need to be defined in the NSH spe= c? Later protocols or standards could always extend the functionality, unle= ss we phrase it to exclude future extensions. Can we just avoid doing that?=

For example, imagine a traceroute like OAM message specification. Couldn= 9;t we just say that in order to support it, any devices which drop the mes= sage because of NSH ttl expiry must send a message back to the originator (= contained within the OAM payload)? No change to the NSH spec -- it simply e= xtends the existing functionality.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:28 PM
> To: Greg Mirsky
> Cc: sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson
> Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL
>
> I am not sure what you are asking for.
> I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text<= br> > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. >
> I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sor= t of
> ICMP behavior.=C2=A0 The working group did not ask for that.=C2=A0 And= more
> importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directio= nal.
> If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years=
> delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL= .
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > Hi Joel,
> > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a c= omponent
> > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, T= TL
> > expiration may be desired, engineered event.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern= .com>> wrote:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Good question.=C2=A0 My understanding was that= the agreement was for SFF
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and SF to decrement the TTL.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Opinions?
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One thing: we need to make it cl= ear which functions should
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0decrement and test the TTL. Only= SFFs ?
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-Dave
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpe= rn
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 = 2:57 PM
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.or= g>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention v= ia TTL
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This was brought up on the list,= and there was useful discussion.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The chairs neglected to close of= f the discussion.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0While Jim is collecting all the = action items for the NSH draft,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0this email serves to report our = conclusion about the discussion
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of adding a TTL field to the NSH= header.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0While not everyone likes the ans= wer, there is rough consensus in
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0support of changing the NSH head= er to include a TTL.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The specific change is to take 6= bits from the flags, and use
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0them as a TTL.=C2=A0 And take 4 = bits from the MD-Type and use them as
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reserved flag bits.=C2=A0 The ba= ckwards compatibility for migration
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0of existing implementations was = discussed, and seems workable.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The resulting packet format is, = as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> +-+
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 T= TL=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Proto
> |
> >
> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have marked what was the C bit= as R for reserved (must be zero
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0on transmission, ignored on rece= ption), as we have a separate
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0rough consensus to deprecate tha= t bit.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0There was some discussion of exa= ctly how the TTL field should be
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0tested.
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The agreement observed on= the list is to decrement before
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0testing for 0, thus allowing an = NSH packet initiated with 0 to
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0be processed without any special= case coding.=C2=A0 The default for
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0originating an NSH header will b= e a TTL of 255.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please speak up promptly if folk= s see a problem with this, as we
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0are trying to get the document c= ompleted.=C2=A0 Also speak up if
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0there are additional clarificati= ons that we should have, to make
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sure the authors reflect Working= Group agreement.
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel (and Jim)
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sfc mailing list
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sfc mailing list
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_________________________________________= ______
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sfc mailing list
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<= wbr>listinfo/sfc
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/sfc>
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/sfc

--001a113d09de1e28d7054cfe4e39-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 13:58:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD8912EB49 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14PQSwBkKk0y for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D16F21273B1 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id f22so46027657oib.2 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=prFiLNp3OH4VR50R+F2j8e2S1rWH4nMsAiz1pJaBZnE=; b=K/43zAKSKV/HdcxxPN/mQpQ6tr4uzrcRvlt9TFIYQnnePXZ91gomdoXBPNfiDE31kM hgwJvIaKPhhe3oI5osJ5n+lQZtSJT5S7pXTjmbhNnIizO7IOVePC/z2A4dURyKFm0H5N SJAgUTiKzZek16cZgQn5GAyAnDUvHCHGRenojihFIWx6ZLJYaEiL/XVyootOsW6PNC5t 1m+GzCsVf5p6QtoWrasK2L3nSXCjGSUYhR2XloyJ7eTs7sNsjPkeW64xkX1WlvIU8fpx d4iOOIPpyLjDA1j64JZtlvw/2GFNrkx+EWhr3rorBsOB4kI2xwPaRJRkHNt/qcJ6NUbm 8TRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=prFiLNp3OH4VR50R+F2j8e2S1rWH4nMsAiz1pJaBZnE=; b=ucHgKgzjiAJxHrE+6pFfmPxpo9tcknJJIc+ilrniCdR9WZN9T65FiCGdqG+FA1XQ1l j0EVLhCpS2wtu8ESfFQHaDK28FlLUl77V1UX5lLn9Wgq9fNaz6YSWPglH7gLmTu2Dkon 1UTPSgqhD5fMOIyW+BfnaXGngXabEcBVueWZimOwaob6Z7Hd5ygFJaonvyRLzvPguxe4 LFa+XnmSqHSADSLg+xwJ9aNcJyvwgKjzvebU0dAQPtpqWgQQ6dpUv0/szR9coumHmKty /JX2N+nM2WTlcFnHELhagFl9Fd1QXAfAxiG7D8tnDIKX9wrZ6FvipTdWTjRHStI4lj9b MhOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7en5r0nvzZrT7vwRLWkecDOSTpHKfd/Hfby/ugBptDh2YH9etetK8j0cV7rtq+wWJLT7JhhE9G6cxrrQ== X-Received: by 10.157.12.42 with SMTP id 39mr8342889otr.35.1492030666272; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.39.165 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 13:57:45 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Dave Dolson , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c04f09cdb7759054cfe75dc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:57:58 -0000 --94eb2c04f09cdb7759054cfe75dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Joel, perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere: Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate network layer for error processing. Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > I am not sure what you are asking for. > I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. > > I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort of > ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more > importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional. > If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years > delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > >> Hi Joel, >> since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component >> that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL >> expiration may be desired, engineered event. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: >> >> Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF >> and SF to decrement the TTL. >> >> Opinions? >> Joel >> >> >> On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: >> >> Joel, >> One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should >> decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? >> >> -Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org >> ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM >> To: sfc@ietf.org >> Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. >> The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. >> While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, >> this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion >> of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. >> >> While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in >> support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. >> >> The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use >> them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as >> reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration >> of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. >> >> The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: >> >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> -+-+-+ >> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto >> | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> -+-+-+ >> >> I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero >> on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate >> rough consensus to deprecate that bit. >> >> There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be >> tested. >> The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before >> testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to >> be processed without any special case coding. The default for >> originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. >> >> Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we >> are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if >> there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make >> sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. >> >> Thank you, >> Joel (and Jim) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> >> --94eb2c04f09cdb7759054cfe75dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,
perhaps the following explanation of TTL hand= ling will be sufficient for NSH document and still leave room for detailed = analysis elsewhere:
Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarde= d. The packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate netwo= rk layer for error processing.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern <= ;jmh@joelhalpern.c= om> wrote:
I am not sure wh= at you are asking for.
I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text showe= d, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped.

I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort of = ICMP behavior.=C2=A0 The working group did not ask for that.=C2=A0 And more= importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional.= =C2=A0 If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two yea= rs delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL.<= br>
Yours,
Joel

On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
Hi Joel,
since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL
expiration may be desired, engineered event.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
 <mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com>> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Good question.=C2=A0 My understanding was that the agreement = was for SFF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and SF to decrement the TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Opinions?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One thing: we need to make it clear which funct= ions should
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Joel M. Ha= lpern
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This was brought up on the list, and there was = useful discussion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The chairs neglected to close off the discussio= n.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While Jim is collecting all the action items fo= r the NSH draft,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this email serves to report our conclusion abou= t the discussion
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of adding a TTL field to the NSH header.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While not everyone likes the answer, there is r= ough consensus in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support of changing the NSH header to include a= TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The specific change is to take 6 bits from the = flags, and use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them as a TTL.=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the M= D-Type and use them as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reserved flag bits.=C2=A0 The backwards compati= bility for migration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of existing implementations was discussed, and = seems workable.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed b= y Adrian Farrel:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Prot= o=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have marked what was the C bit as R for reser= ved (must be zero
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission, ignored on reception), as we h= ave a separate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rough consensus to deprecate that bit.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There was some discussion of exactly how the TT= L field should be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tested.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The agreement observed on the list is to= decrement before
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet init= iated with 0 to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be processed without any special case coding.= =C2=A0 The default for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem= with this, as we
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are trying to get the document completed.=C2=A0= Also speak up if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there are additional clarifications that we sho= uld have, to make
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure the authors reflect Working Group agreemen= t.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel (and Jim)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<= wbr>istinfo/sfc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sfc>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<= wbr>istinfo/sfc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sfc>


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.or= g <mailto:sfc@ietf= .org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sf= c
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/sfc>



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Halpern" CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76mw6BJbapv9kW5hTelYGGL6KHCG5HwgABGn4CAAAf8gIAAB/oAgAAISID//76voA== Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:05:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987058789Dwtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:05:43 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987058789Dwtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987058789Dwtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 14:22:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F64212EB51; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 14:22:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dTqweLlJXxQ8; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 14:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9F56129ABD; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 14:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKU45269; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:22:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 22:22:23 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 14:22:16 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "sfc@ietf.org" CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Thread-Index: AdKz0q4mvQxAZWegTRWi/qWLS+LkoA== Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.151.40] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0DB5SJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0204.58EE9A91.0039, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 39565f5b12661fecc7ceca31253e56d6 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 21:22:35 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0DB5SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear WG: After careful review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12, the following changes have b= een agreed upon by the WG. Please review carefully and highlight if any cha= nges have been missed so that the chairs can call consensus and ask the edi= tors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the document. Li= kewise, if you disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!. Note t= hat the following does not assume that there are no outstanding issues to c= all consensus on but the chairs would like to see a new document published = with all agreed upon changes so that we can better evaluate as a WG what el= se is outstanding before the document is ready for IESG publication: 1. C-bit changes Section 3.2: - Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figure 2), returning = the bit to "reserved" status. - Remove the following text: C bit: Indicates that a critical metadata TLV is present. This bit acts as an indication for hardware implementers to decide how to handle the presence of a critical TLV without necessarily needing to parse all TLVs present. For an MD Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable length metadata is present), the C bit MUST be set to 0x0. Section 3.4 and 3.5 - Remove the c bit and return the bit to "reserved" status (figure= 4 and figure 5). Section 3.5.1 - Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "Type" an 8-bit field. - Remove the following text: Type: the Type field is split into two ranges - 0 to 127 for non- critical options and 128-255 for critical options. While the value allocation is the responsibility of the MD Class owner, critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 0 to 127 range and non- critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 128-255 range. - Remove figure 7 and associated text. Section 12.2.1 - Remove the following text: Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) 2. Service Index decrement Section 3.3: - The third sentence describing the Service Index currently reads: Service Index MUST be decremented by Service Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. - Update the text as follows: Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service Functions o= r by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. 3. Metadata processing Section 3.5.1: - As per ticket https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket/21 insert th= e following text between the 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs of this section= : Upon receipt of a packet that belongs to a given SFP, if a mandatory- to-process TLV is missing in that packet, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT process the packet and MUST log at least once per the SPI for which mandatory metadata is missing. 4. NSH MD Type 1 Section 3.4: - The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, four Context Headers, 4-byte each, MUST be added immediately following the Service Path Header, as per Figure 4. Context Headers that carry no metadata MUST be set to zero. - Update the text to read as follows: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length Context Header (16-bytes) MUST be added immediately following the Servic= e Path Header, as per Figure 4. A Fixed Length Context Header that carries no = metadata MUST be set to zero. - The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: This specification does not make any assumption about the content placed in the mandatory context field of the NSH header, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. - Update the text to read as follows: This specification does not make any assumptions about the content of the 16 byte Fixed Length Context Header that must be present when the MD Type field is set to 0x1, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. 5. MD class registry Section 12.2.4: - Replace existing text with the following: 12.2.4. MD Class Registry IANA is requested to set up a registry of "MD Class". These are 16- bit values. New allocations are to be made according to the following policies: 0x0000 to 0x01ff: IETF Review 0x0200 to 0xfff5: Expert Review 0xfff6 to 0xfffe: Experimental 0xffff: Reserved IANA is requested to assign the following value: MD Class | Meaning | Reference ---------+----------------------------+----------- 0x0000 | IETF Base NSH MD Class | [This.I-D] Designated Experts evaluating new allocation requests from the "Expert Review" range should principally consider whether a new MD class is needed compared to adding MD types to an existing class. The Designated Experts should also encourage the existence of an associated and publically visible registry of MD types although this registry need not be maintained by IANA. 6. New IETF assigned MD TLV Type Registry - Add a new section 12.2.6 entitled "IETF Assigned MD TLV Type Registry" wi= th the following text: This document requests IANA to create a registry for the type values owned by the IETF (i.e., MD Class set to 0x0000) called the "IETF Assign= ed MD TLV Type Registry." The type values are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. No initial values are assigned at the creation of the registry. 7. NSH base header length field Section 3.2: - Replace all of the existing text for the "length" field with the= following: Length: The total length, in 4-byte words, of the NSH including the Base Header, the Service Path Header, the Fixed Length Context Header or Optional Variable Length Metadata that is present. Then length MUST be of value 0x6 for MD Type equal to 0x1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or greater for MD Type equal to 0x2. The length of the NSH header MUST be an integer multiple of 4 bytes, thus variable length metadata is always padded out to a multiple of 4 bytes. 8. Mandatory support for MD Type 2 no metadata Section 3.2: - Current text for the first sentence for implementation support o= f metadata reads: NSH implementations MUST support MD Type =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD Type =3D 0x2. - Suggestion to replace this text with the following as wG consens= us for this change: NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where = the length is of value 0x2). NSH implementations SHOULD support MD Type 0x2 with le= ngth > 0x2. Thanks! Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0DB5SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear WG:

 

After careful review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12, the f= ollowing changes have been agreed upon by the WG. Please review carefully a= nd highlight if any changes have been missed so that the chairs can call co= nsensus and ask the editors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the document. Likewise, if y= ou disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!. Note that the foll= owing does not assume that there are no outstanding issues to call consensu= s on but the chairs would like to see a new document published with all agreed upon changes so that we can b= etter evaluate as a WG what else is outstanding before the document is read= y for IESG publication:

 

1. C-bit changes

Section 3.2:

-       = ;   Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figure 2= ), returning the bit to “reserved” status.

-       = ;   Remove the following text:

   C bit: Indicates that a critical metada= ta TLV is present.  This bit

   acts as an indication for hardware impl= ementers to decide how to

   handle the presence of a critical TLV w= ithout necessarily needing to

   parse all TLVs present.  For an MD= Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable

   length metadata is present), the C bit = MUST be set to 0x0.

 

Section 3.4 and 3.5

-       = ;   Remove the c bit and return the bit to “reser= ved” status (figure 4 and figure 5).

 

Section 3.5.1

-       = ;   Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "Type&= quot; an 8-bit field.

-       = ;   Remove the following text:

   Type: the Type field is split into two = ranges - 0 to 127 for non-

   critical options and 128-255 for critic= al options.  While the value

   allocation is the responsibility of the= MD Class owner, critical

   options MUST NOT be allocated from the = 0 to 127 range and non-

   critical options MUST NOT be allocated = from the 128-255 range.

-       = ;   Remove figure 7 and associated text.

 

Section 12.2.1

-       = ;   Remove the following text:

   Bit 3 – Critical TLV (C bit)=

 

2. Service Index decrement

Section 3.3:

-       = ;   The third sentence describing the Service Index cur= rently reads:

   Service Index MUST be decremented by Se= rvice Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after performing required s= ervices and the new

   decremented SI value MUST be used in th= e egress NSH packet. 

 

-       = ;   Update the text as follows:

   Service Index MUST be decremented by a = value of 1 by Service Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after performing required s= ervices and the new

   decremented SI value MUST be used in th= e egress NSH packet.

 

3. Metadata processing

Section 3.5.1:

-       = ;   As per ticket https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket= /21 insert the following text between the 3rd and 2nd= to last paragraphs of this section:

   Upon receipt of a packet that belongs t= o a given SFP, if a mandatory-

   to-process TLV is missing in that packe= t, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT

   process the packet and MUST log at leas= t once per the SPI for which

   mandatory metadata is missing.

 

4. NSH MD Type 1

Section 3.4:

-       = ;   The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads:=

   When the Base Header specifies MD Type = =3D 0x1, four Context Headers,

   4-byte each, MUST be added immediately = following the Service Path

   Header, as per Figure 4.  Context = Headers that carry no metadata MUST

   be set to zero.

 

-       = ;   Update the text to read as follows:

   When the Base Header specifies MD Type = =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length

   Context Header (16-bytes) MUST be = added immediately following the Service Path

   Header, as per Figure 4.  A Fixed = Length Context Header that carries no metadata

   MUST be set to zero.

 

-       = ;   The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads:=

   This specification does not make any as= sumption about the content

   placed in the mandatory context field o= f the NSH header, and does not

   describe the structure or meaning of th= e included metadata.

 

-       = ;   Update the text to read as follows:

   This specification does not make any as= sumptions about the content

   of the 16 byte Fixed Length Context Hea= der that must be present when

   the MD Type field is set to 0x1, a= nd does not describe the structure

   or meaning of the included metadata.

 

5. MD class registry

Section 12.2.4:

- Replace existing text with the following:

12.2.4.  MD Class Registry

   IANA is requested to set up a regi= stry of “MD Class”.  These are 16-

   bit values. New allocations are to be m= ade according to the

   following policies:

   0x0000 to 0x01ff: IETF Review=

   0x0200 to 0xfff5: Expert Review

   0xfff6 to 0xfffe: Experimental

   0xffff: Reserved

   IANA is requested to assign the fo= llowing value:

   MD Class | Meaning  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    | Reference

   ---------+-------------------------= ---+-----------

   0x0000   | IETF Base NSH MD C= lass     | [This.I-D]

   Designated Experts evaluating new = allocation requests

   from the “Expert Review” ra= nge should principally

   consider whether a new MD class is need= ed compared to

   adding MD types to an existing class. T= he Designated

   Experts should also encourage the = existence of an

   associated and publically visible regis= try of MD types

   although this registry need not be main= tained by IANA.

 

6. New IETF assigned MD TLV Type Registry

- Add a new section 12.2.6 entitled "IETF Assig= ned MD TLV Type Registry" with the following text:

 

   This document requests IANA to create a= registry for the type values

   owned by the IETF (i.e., MD Class set t= o 0x0000) called the "IETF Assigned

   MD TLV Type Registry."<= /p>

 

   The type values are assigned via Standa= rds Action [RFC5226].

 

   No initial values are assigned at the c= reation of the registry.

 

7. NSH base header length field

Section 3.2:

-       = ;   Replace all of the existing text for the “len= gth” field with the following:

   

   Length: The total length, in 4-byt= e words, of the NSH including the

   Base Header, the Service Path Header, t= he Fixed Length Context Header

   or Optional Variable Length Metadata th= at is present. Then length MUST

   be of value 0x6 for MD Type equal to 0x= 1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or

   greater for MD Type equal to 0x2. = The length of the NSH header MUST

   be an integer multiple of 4 bytes, thus= variable length metadata is

   always padded out to a multiple of= 4 bytes.

 

8. Mandatory support for MD Type 2 no metadata

Section 3.2:

-       = ;   Current text for the first sentence for implementat= ion support of metadata reads:

   NSH implementations MUST support MD Typ= e =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD

   Type =3D 0x2.

 

-       = ;   Suggestion to replace this text with the following = as wG consensus for this change:

   NSH implementations MUST support MD typ= e =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where the length

   is of value 0x2). NSH implementations S= HOULD support MD Type 0x2 with length > 0x2.

 

Thanks!

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

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--_000_4D0EE38FA4354B7D90A21BB80A4AF1C2nokiacom_-- From nobody Wed Apr 12 20:47:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617B412704A for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:47:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jEQWmeuhWq2w for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:47:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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<4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2017 20:47:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" Cc: Dave Dolson , "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e09cefdcfdc054d042f63 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 03:47:46 -0000 --001a113e09cefdcfdc054d042f63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andrew, as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm OK= . Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) < andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> wrote: > I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the p= oint and > does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to the packet = as > it does mandates immediate drop. > > > > Andrew > > > > *From: *sfc on behalf of Dave Dolson < > ddolson@sandvine.com> > *Date: *Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM > *To: *Greg Mirsky , "Joel M. Halpern" < > jmh@joelhalpern.com> > *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org" > > *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, the value of zero must only b= e > checked after decrementing. > > > > Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT > be forwarded. > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM > *To:* Joel M. Halpern > *Cc:* Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > Hi Joel, > > perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for > NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere: > > Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The packet MAY > be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate network layer for err= or > processing. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > I am not sure what you are asking for. > I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. > > I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort o= f > ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more > importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional= . > If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years > delaying publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Joel, > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL > expiration may be desired, engineered event. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF > and SF to decrement the TTL. > > Opinions? > Joel > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > Joel, > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should > decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > -Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > > To: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, > this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion > of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use > them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as > reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration > of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > -+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto > | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > -+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero > on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate > rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be > tested. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we > are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if > there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make > sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > --001a113e09cefdcfdc054d042f63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Andrew,
as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, bu= t instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm OK.

Rega= rds,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG= /Singapore) <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> wrote:

I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the po= int and does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to the p= acket as it does mandates immediate drop.

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org= > on behalf of Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <= jmh@joelhalpern.co= m>
Cc: "sfc@ietf= .org" <sfc@ie= tf.org>


Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL
=

=C2=A0

To make it more precise, as Joe= l mentioned, the value of zero must only be checked after decrementing.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Outg= oing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT be forward= ed.

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM
To: Joel M. Halpern
Cc: Dave Dolson; s= fc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

=C2=A0

Hi Joel,<= /p>

perhaps the following e= xplanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for NSH document and still le= ave room for detailed analysis elsewhere:

Outgoing packet with TT= L value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The packet MAY be discarded or it MAY b= e passed to the appropriate network layer for error processing.

=C2=A0

Regards,<= /p>

Greg

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at= 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

I am not sure what you = are asking for.
I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text showe= d, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped.

I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort of = ICMP behavior.=C2=A0 The working group did not ask for that.=C2=A0 And more= importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional.= =C2=A0 If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally p= refer to skip the TTL.

Yours,
Joel

On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:

Hi Joel,
since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL
expiration may be desired, engineered event.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
<mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com>> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Good question.=C2=A0 My understanding was that the agreement = was for SFF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and SF to decrement the TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Opinions?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One thing: we need to make it clear which funct= ions should
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Joel M. Ha= lpern
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM<= u>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 To: sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This was brought up on the list, and there was = useful discussion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The chairs neglected to close off the discussio= n.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While Jim is collecting all the action items fo= r the NSH draft,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this email serves to report our conclusion abou= t the discussion
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of adding a TTL field to the NSH header.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While not everyone likes the answer, there is r= ough consensus in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support of changing the NSH header to include a= TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The specific change is to take 6 bits from the = flags, and use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them as a TTL.=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the M= D-Type and use them as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reserved flag bits.=C2=A0 The backwards compati= bility for migration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of existing implementations was discussed, and = seems workable.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed b= y Adrian Farrel:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Prot= o=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have marked what was the C bit as R for reser= ved (must be zero
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission, ignored on reception), as we h= ave a separate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rough consensus to deprecate that bit.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There was some discussion of exactly how the TT= L field should be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tested.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The agreement observed on the list is to= decrement before
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet init= iated with 0 to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be processed without any special case coding.= =C2=A0 The default for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem= with this, as we
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are trying to get the document completed.=C2=A0= Also speak up if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there are additional clarifications that we sho= uld have, to make
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure the authors reflect Working Group agreemen= t.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel (and Jim)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc= >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc= >


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.or= g <mailto:sfc@ietf= .org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>


=C2=A0


--001a113e09cefdcfdc054d042f63-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 01:24:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCEBF1317DA; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 01:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RGb7wUUftwQY; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 01:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 930C81317D6; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 01:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar23.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id D85C21603AE; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:24:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.31.3]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id AEC7E8007D; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:24:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM5D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::9898:741c:bc1d:258d%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:24:20 +0200 From: To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Thread-Index: AdKz0q4mvQxAZWegTRWi/qWLS+LkoAAW4RQA Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:24:19 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 08:24:26 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, Thank you for this summary. There is an item that was not included in your list: OLD : SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations, which do not support SFC OAM procedures, SHALL discard packets with O-bit set. SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations MAY support a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM packets unmodified to the next element in the chain. Such behavior may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to enabling this behavior. The configurable parameter MUST be disabled by default. For non OAM packets, the O-bit MUST be cleared and MUST NOT be modified along the SFP. NEW : SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM packets unmodified to the next element in the chain. Forwarding OAM packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM procedur= es may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can result in unex= pected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to enabling this behavior. The configurable parameter MUST be disabled by default. The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM packets. The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 avril 2017 23:22 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Dear WG: After careful review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12, the following changes have b= een agreed upon by the WG. Please review carefully and highlight if any cha= nges have been missed so that the chairs can call consensus and ask the edi= tors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the document. Li= kewise, if you disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!. Note t= hat the following does not assume that there are no outstanding issues to c= all consensus on but the chairs would like to see a new document published = with all agreed upon changes so that we can better evaluate as a WG what el= se is outstanding before the document is ready for IESG publication: 1. C-bit changes Section 3.2: - Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figure 2), returning = the bit to "reserved" status. - Remove the following text: C bit: Indicates that a critical metadata TLV is present. This bit acts as an indication for hardware implementers to decide how to handle the presence of a critical TLV without necessarily needing to parse all TLVs present. For an MD Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable length metadata is present), the C bit MUST be set to 0x0. Section 3.4 and 3.5 - Remove the c bit and return the bit to "reserved" status (figure= 4 and figure 5). Section 3.5.1 - Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "Type" an 8-bit field. - Remove the following text: Type: the Type field is split into two ranges - 0 to 127 for non- critical options and 128-255 for critical options. While the value allocation is the responsibility of the MD Class owner, critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 0 to 127 range and non- critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 128-255 range. - Remove figure 7 and associated text. Section 12.2.1 - Remove the following text: Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) 2. Service Index decrement Section 3.3: - The third sentence describing the Service Index currently reads: Service Index MUST be decremented by Service Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. - Update the text as follows: Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service Functions o= r by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. 3. Metadata processing Section 3.5.1: - As per ticket https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket/21 insert th= e following text between the 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs of this section= : Upon receipt of a packet that belongs to a given SFP, if a mandatory- to-process TLV is missing in that packet, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT process the packet and MUST log at least once per the SPI for which mandatory metadata is missing. 4. NSH MD Type 1 Section 3.4: - The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, four Context Headers, 4-byte each, MUST be added immediately following the Service Path Header, as per Figure 4. Context Headers that carry no metadata MUST be set to zero. - Update the text to read as follows: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length Context Header (16-bytes) MUST be added immediately following the Servic= e Path Header, as per Figure 4. A Fixed Length Context Header that carries no = metadata MUST be set to zero. - The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: This specification does not make any assumption about the content placed in the mandatory context field of the NSH header, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. - Update the text to read as follows: This specification does not make any assumptions about the content of the 16 byte Fixed Length Context Header that must be present when the MD Type field is set to 0x1, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. 5. MD class registry Section 12.2.4: - Replace existing text with the following: 12.2.4. MD Class Registry IANA is requested to set up a registry of "MD Class". These are 16- bit values. New allocations are to be made according to the following policies: 0x0000 to 0x01ff: IETF Review 0x0200 to 0xfff5: Expert Review 0xfff6 to 0xfffe: Experimental 0xffff: Reserved IANA is requested to assign the following value: MD Class | Meaning | Reference ---------+----------------------------+----------- 0x0000 | IETF Base NSH MD Class | [This.I-D] Designated Experts evaluating new allocation requests from the "Expert Review" range should principally consider whether a new MD class is needed compared to adding MD types to an existing class. The Designated Experts should also encourage the existence of an associated and publically visible registry of MD types although this registry need not be maintained by IANA. 6. New IETF assigned MD TLV Type Registry - Add a new section 12.2.6 entitled "IETF Assigned MD TLV Type Registry" wi= th the following text: This document requests IANA to create a registry for the type values owned by the IETF (i.e., MD Class set to 0x0000) called the "IETF Assign= ed MD TLV Type Registry." The type values are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. No initial values are assigned at the creation of the registry. 7. NSH base header length field Section 3.2: - Replace all of the existing text for the "length" field with the= following: Length: The total length, in 4-byte words, of the NSH including the Base Header, the Service Path Header, the Fixed Length Context Header or Optional Variable Length Metadata that is present. Then length MUST be of value 0x6 for MD Type equal to 0x1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or greater for MD Type equal to 0x2. The length of the NSH header MUST be an integer multiple of 4 bytes, thus variable length metadata is always padded out to a multiple of 4 bytes. 8. Mandatory support for MD Type 2 no metadata Section 3.2: - Current text for the first sentence for implementation support o= f metadata reads: NSH implementations MUST support MD Type =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD Type =3D 0x2. - Suggestion to replace this text with the following as wG consens= us for this change: NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where = the length is of value 0x2). NSH implementations SHOULD support MD Type 0x2 with le= ngth > 0x2. Thanks! Jim & Joel --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you for this summary. &nb= sp;

 

There is an item that was not i= ncluded in your list:

 

OLD :

 

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer imp= lementations, which do not support SFC

   OAM procedures, SHALL discard = packets with O-bit set.

 

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer imp= lementations MAY support a configurable

   parameter to enable forwarding= received SFC OAM packets unmodified to

   the next element in the chain.=   Such behavior may be acceptable for a

   subset of OAM functions, but c= an result in unexpected outcomes for

   others, thus it is recommended= to analyze the impact of forwarding an

   OAM packet for all OAM functio= ns prior to enabling this behavior.

   The configurable parameter MUS= T be disabled by default.

 

   For non OAM packets, the O-bit= MUST be cleared and MUST NOT be

   modified along the SFP.

 

NEW :

 

    SF/SFF/SFC P= roxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC

    OAM procedur= es SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY

    support a co= nfigurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC

    OAM packets = unmodified to the next element in the chain. Forwarding OAM

    packets= unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM procedures

    = may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can result in= unexpected outcomes for

   others, thus it is recommended= to analyze the impact of forwarding an

   OAM packet for all OAM functio= ns prior to enabling this behavior.

   The configurable parameter MUS= T be disabled by default.

 

   The O-bit MUST be = set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM

   packets. The O-bit= MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 avril 2017 23:22
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12

 

Dear WG:

 

After careful review of draft-i= etf-sfc-nsh-12, the following changes have been agreed upon by the WG. Plea= se review carefully and highlight if any changes have been missed so that t= he chairs can call consensus and ask the editors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the docu= ment. Likewise, if you disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!= . Note that the following does not assume that there are no outstanding iss= ues to call consensus on but the chairs would like to see a new document published with all agreed upon cha= nges so that we can better evaluate as a WG what else is outstanding before= the document is ready for IESG publication:

 

1. C-bit changes<= /span>

Section 3.2:

-  =         Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figu= re 2), returning the bit to “reserved” status.

-  =         Remove the following text:

   C bit: Indicates t= hat a critical metadata TLV is present.  This bit

   acts as an indicat= ion for hardware implementers to decide how to

   handle the presenc= e of a critical TLV without necessarily needing to

   parse all TLVs pre= sent.  For an MD Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable

   length metadata is= present), the C bit MUST be set to 0x0.

 

Section 3.4 and 3.5

-  =         Remove the c bit and return the bit to “r= eserved” status (figure 4 and figure 5).

 

Section 3.5.1

-  =         Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "T= ype" an 8-bit field.

-  =         Remove the following text:

   Type: the Type fie= ld is split into two ranges - 0 to 127 for non-

   critical options a= nd 128-255 for critical options.  While the value

   allocation is the = responsibility of the MD Class owner, critical

   options MUST NOT b= e allocated from the 0 to 127 range and non-

   critical options M= UST NOT be allocated from the 128-255 range.

-  =         Remove figure 7 and associated text.=

 

Section 12.2.1

-  =         Remove the following text:

   Bit 3 – Crit= ical TLV (C bit)

 

2. Service Index decrement

Section 3.3:

-  =         The third sentence describing the Service Index= currently reads:

   Service Index MUST= be decremented by Service Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after = performing required services and the new

   decremented SI val= ue MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. 

 

-  =         Update the text as follows:

   Service Index MUST= be decremented by a value of 1 by Service Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after = performing required services and the new

   decremented SI val= ue MUST be used in the egress NSH packet.

 

3. Metadata processing<= /o:p>

Section 3.5.1:

-  =         As per ticket https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket/21 insert the following text betw= een the 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs of this sectio= n:

   Upon receipt of a = packet that belongs to a given SFP, if a mandatory-

   to-process TLV is = missing in that packet, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT

   process the packet= and MUST log at least once per the SPI for which

   mandatory metadata= is missing.

 

4. NSH MD Type 1<= /span>

Section 3.4:

-  =         The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently re= ads:

   When the Base Head= er specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, four Context Headers,

   4-byte each, MUST = be added immediately following the Service Path

   Header, as per Fig= ure 4.  Context Headers that carry no metadata MUST<= /p>

   be set to zero.

 

-  =         Update the text to read as follows:<= /span>

   When the Base Head= er specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length

   Context Heade= r (16-bytes) MUST be added immediately following the Service Path

   Header, as per Fig= ure 4.  A Fixed Length Context Header that carries no metadata

   MUST be set t= o zero.

 

-  =         The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently re= ads:

   This specification= does not make any assumption about the content

   placed in the mand= atory context field of the NSH header, and does not

   describe the struc= ture or meaning of the included metadata.

 

-  =         Update the text to read as follows:<= /span>

   This specification= does not make any assumptions about the content

   of the 16 byte Fix= ed Length Context Header that must be present when

   the MD Type f= ield is set to 0x1, and does not describe the structure

   or meaning of the = included metadata.

 

5. MD class registry

Section 12.2.4:

- Replace existing text with th= e following:

12.2.4.  MD Class Registry=

 

   IANA is reque= sted to set up a registry of “MD Class”.  These are 16-

   bit values. New al= locations are to be made according to the

   following policies= :

 

   0x0000 to 0x0= 1ff: IETF Review

   0x0200 to 0xfff5: = Expert Review

   0xfff6 to 0xfffe: = Experimental

   0xffff: Reserved

 

   IANA is reque= sted to assign the following value:

 

   MD Class | Me= aning           &nbs= p;        | Reference<= /p>

   ---------+----= ------------------------+-----------

   0x0000  = | IETF Base NSH MD Class     | [This.I-D]

 

   Designated Ex= perts evaluating new allocation requests

   from the “Ex= pert Review” range should principally

   consider whether a= new MD class is needed compared to

   adding MD types to= an existing class. The Designated

   Experts shoul= d also encourage the existence of an

   associated and pub= lically visible registry of MD types

   although this regi= stry need not be maintained by IANA.

 

6. New IETF assigned MD TLV = Type Registry

- Add a new section 12.2.6 enti= tled "IETF Assigned MD TLV Type Registry" with the following text= :

 

   This document requ= ests IANA to create a registry for the type values

   owned by the IETF = (i.e., MD Class set to 0x0000) called the "IETF Assigned

   MD TLV Type Regist= ry."

 

   The type values ar= e assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].

 

   No initial values = are assigned at the creation of the registry.

 

7. NSH base header length fi= eld

Section 3.2:

-  =         Replace all of the existing text for the “= ;length” field with the following:

    <= /span>

   Length: The t= otal length, in 4-byte words, of the NSH including the

   Base Header, the S= ervice Path Header, the Fixed Length Context Header

   or Optional Variab= le Length Metadata that is present. Then length MUST

   be of value 0x6 fo= r MD Type equal to 0x1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or

   greater for M= D Type equal to 0x2. The length of the NSH header MUST

   be an integer mult= iple of 4 bytes, thus variable length metadata is

   always padded= out to a multiple of 4 bytes.

 

8. Mandatory support for MD = Type 2 no metadata

Section 3.2:

-  =         Current text for the first sentence for impleme= ntation support of metadata reads:

   NSH implementation= s MUST support MD Type =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD

   Type =3D 0x2.=

 

-  =         Suggestion to replace this text with the follow= ing as wG consensus for this change:

   NSH implementation= s MUST support MD type =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where the length=

   is of value 0x2). = NSH implementations SHOULD support MD Type 0x2 with length > 0x2.

 

Thanks!

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 06:05:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226FA12943B; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:05:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V33Dv-vN30fG; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7489E12942F; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DEQ37888; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:05:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:05:22 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 06:05:16 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "sfc@ietf.org" CC: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Thread-Index: AdKz0q4mvQxAZWegTRWi/qWLS+LkoAAW4RQAAAoIdYA= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:05:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E4CDD9@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.150.69] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0FC0SJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.58EF7794.02E1, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: cad482416f4a89307242e3deb09c4299 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:05:30 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0FC0SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Med, Thank you. I have captured this and will add it to the list of items for th= e NSH document editors. Jim From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 4:24 AM To: James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Cc: sfc-chairs@ietf.org Subject: RE: WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Hi Jim, Thank you for this summary. There is an item that was not included in your list: OLD : SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations, which do not support SFC OAM procedures, SHALL discard packets with O-bit set. SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations MAY support a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM packets unmodified to the next element in the chain. Such behavior may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to enabling this behavior. The configurable parameter MUST be disabled by default. For non OAM packets, the O-bit MUST be cleared and MUST NOT be modified along the SFP. NEW : SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM packets unmodified to the next element in the chain. Forwarding OAM packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM procedur= es may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can result in unex= pected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to enabling this behavior. The configurable parameter MUST be disabled by default. The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM packets. The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 avril 2017 23:22 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12 Dear WG: After careful review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12, the following changes have b= een agreed upon by the WG. Please review carefully and highlight if any cha= nges have been missed so that the chairs can call consensus and ask the edi= tors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the document. Li= kewise, if you disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!. Note t= hat the following does not assume that there are no outstanding issues to c= all consensus on but the chairs would like to see a new document published = with all agreed upon changes so that we can better evaluate as a WG what el= se is outstanding before the document is ready for IESG publication: 1. C-bit changes Section 3.2: - Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figure 2), returning = the bit to "reserved" status. - Remove the following text: C bit: Indicates that a critical metadata TLV is present. This bit acts as an indication for hardware implementers to decide how to handle the presence of a critical TLV without necessarily needing to parse all TLVs present. For an MD Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable length metadata is present), the C bit MUST be set to 0x0. Section 3.4 and 3.5 - Remove the c bit and return the bit to "reserved" status (figure= 4 and figure 5). Section 3.5.1 - Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "Type" an 8-bit field. - Remove the following text: Type: the Type field is split into two ranges - 0 to 127 for non- critical options and 128-255 for critical options. While the value allocation is the responsibility of the MD Class owner, critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 0 to 127 range and non- critical options MUST NOT be allocated from the 128-255 range. - Remove figure 7 and associated text. Section 12.2.1 - Remove the following text: Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) 2. Service Index decrement Section 3.3: - The third sentence describing the Service Index currently reads: Service Index MUST be decremented by Service Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. - Update the text as follows: Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service Functions o= r by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH packet. 3. Metadata processing Section 3.5.1: - As per ticket https://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket/21 insert th= e following text between the 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs of this section= : Upon receipt of a packet that belongs to a given SFP, if a mandatory- to-process TLV is missing in that packet, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT process the packet and MUST log at least once per the SPI for which mandatory metadata is missing. 4. NSH MD Type 1 Section 3.4: - The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, four Context Headers, 4-byte each, MUST be added immediately following the Service Path Header, as per Figure 4. Context Headers that carry no metadata MUST be set to zero. - Update the text to read as follows: When the Base Header specifies MD Type =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length Context Header (16-bytes) MUST be added immediately following the Servic= e Path Header, as per Figure 4. A Fixed Length Context Header that carries no = metadata MUST be set to zero. - The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads: This specification does not make any assumption about the content placed in the mandatory context field of the NSH header, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. - Update the text to read as follows: This specification does not make any assumptions about the content of the 16 byte Fixed Length Context Header that must be present when the MD Type field is set to 0x1, and does not describe the structure or meaning of the included metadata. 5. MD class registry Section 12.2.4: - Replace existing text with the following: 12.2.4. MD Class Registry IANA is requested to set up a registry of "MD Class". These are 16- bit values. New allocations are to be made according to the following policies: 0x0000 to 0x01ff: IETF Review 0x0200 to 0xfff5: Expert Review 0xfff6 to 0xfffe: Experimental 0xffff: Reserved IANA is requested to assign the following value: MD Class | Meaning | Reference ---------+----------------------------+----------- 0x0000 | IETF Base NSH MD Class | [This.I-D] Designated Experts evaluating new allocation requests from the "Expert Review" range should principally consider whether a new MD class is needed compared to adding MD types to an existing class. The Designated Experts should also encourage the existence of an associated and publically visible registry of MD types although this registry need not be maintained by IANA. 6. New IETF assigned MD TLV Type Registry - Add a new section 12.2.6 entitled "IETF Assigned MD TLV Type Registry" wi= th the following text: This document requests IANA to create a registry for the type values owned by the IETF (i.e., MD Class set to 0x0000) called the "IETF Assign= ed MD TLV Type Registry." The type values are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. No initial values are assigned at the creation of the registry. 7. NSH base header length field Section 3.2: - Replace all of the existing text for the "length" field with the= following: Length: The total length, in 4-byte words, of the NSH including the Base Header, the Service Path Header, the Fixed Length Context Header or Optional Variable Length Metadata that is present. Then length MUST be of value 0x6 for MD Type equal to 0x1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or greater for MD Type equal to 0x2. The length of the NSH header MUST be an integer multiple of 4 bytes, thus variable length metadata is always padded out to a multiple of 4 bytes. 8. Mandatory support for MD Type 2 no metadata Section 3.2: - Current text for the first sentence for implementation support o= f metadata reads: NSH implementations MUST support MD Type =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD Type =3D 0x2. - Suggestion to replace this text with the following as wG consens= us for this change: NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where = the length is of value 0x2). NSH implementations SHOULD support MD Type 0x2 with le= ngth > 0x2. Thanks! Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD0FC0SJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Med,

 

Thank you. I have capt= ured this and will add it to the list of items for the NSH document editors= .

 

Jim<= /p>

 

From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mo= hamed.boucadair@orange.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 4:24 AM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.o= rg
Cc: sfc-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thank you for this summary.  <= /span>

 

There is an item that was not included in your= list:

 

OLD :

 

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations, w= hich do not support SFC

   OAM procedures, SHALL discard packets with O-= bit set.

 

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations MA= Y support a configurable

   parameter to enable forwarding received SFC O= AM packets unmodified to

   the next element in the chain.  Such beh= avior may be acceptable for a

   subset of OAM functions, but can result in un= expected outcomes for

   others, thus it is recommended to analyze the= impact of forwarding an

   OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to ena= bling this behavior.

   The configurable parameter MUST be disabled b= y default.

 

   For non OAM packets, the O-bit MUST be cleare= d and MUST NOT be

   modified along the SFP.

 

NEW :

 

    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer = implementations that do not support SFC

    OAM procedures SHOULD disca= rd packets with O-bit set, but MAY

    support a configurable para= meter to enable forwarding received SFC

    OAM packets unmodified to t= he next element in the chain. Forwarding OAM

    packets unmodified by = SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM procedures

    may be acceptable for= a subset of OAM functions, but can result in unexpected outcomes for<= /o:p>

   others, thus it is recommended to analyze the= impact of forwarding an

   OAM packet for all OAM functions prior to ena= bling this behavior.

   The configurable parameter MUST be disabled b= y default.

 

   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM pac= kets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM

   packets. The O-bit MUST NOT be mo= dified along the SFP.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 12 avril 2017 23:22
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Cc : sfc-chairs@ietf.org=
Objet : [sfc] WG consensus changes to draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12

 

Dear WG:

 

After careful review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-12, the f= ollowing changes have been agreed upon by the WG. Please review carefully a= nd highlight if any changes have been missed so that the chairs can call co= nsensus and ask the editors to make the changes and publish an updated version of the document. Likewise, if y= ou disagree with the changes, now is the time to speak!. Note that the foll= owing does not assume that there are no outstanding issues to call consensu= s on but the chairs would like to see a new document published with all agreed upon changes so that we can b= etter evaluate as a WG what else is outstanding before the document is read= y for IESG publication:

 

1. C-bit changes

Section 3.2:

-          Remove the c bit from the NSH base header (figure 2), returning the = bit to “reserved” status.

-          Remove the following text:

   C bit: Indicates that a critical metada= ta TLV is present.  This bit

   acts as an indication for hardware impl= ementers to decide how to

   handle the presence of a critical TLV w= ithout necessarily needing to

   parse all TLVs present.  For an MD= Type of 0x1 (i.e. no variable

   length metadata is present), the C bit = MUST be set to 0x0.

 

Section 3.4 and 3.5

-          Remove the c bit and return the bit to “reserved” status= (figure 4 and figure 5).

 

Section 3.5.1

-          Remove the c bit from figure 6 and make "Type" an 8-bit fi= eld.

-          Remove the following text:

   Type: the Type field is split into two = ranges - 0 to 127 for non-

   critical options and 128-255 for critic= al options.  While the value

   allocation is the responsibility of the= MD Class owner, critical

   options MUST NOT be allocated from the = 0 to 127 range and non-

   critical options MUST NOT be allocated = from the 128-255 range.

-          Remove figure 7 and associated text.

 

Section 12.2.1

-          Remove the following text:

   Bit 3 – Critical TLV (C bit)=

 

2. Service Index decrement

Section 3.3:

-          The third sentence describing the Service Index currently reads:

   Service Index MUST be decremented by Se= rvice Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after performing required s= ervices and the new

   decremented SI value MUST be used in th= e egress NSH packet. 

 

-          Update the text as follows:

   Service Index MUST be decremented by a = value of 1 by Service Functions or by SFC

   Proxy nodes after performing required s= ervices and the new

   decremented SI value MUST be used in th= e egress NSH packet.

 

3. Metadata processing

Section 3.5.1:

-          As per ticket h= ttps://trac.ietf.org/trac/sfc/ticket/21 insert the following text betwe= en the 3rd and 2nd to last paragraphs of this section= :

   Upon receipt of a packet that belongs t= o a given SFP, if a mandatory-

   to-process TLV is missing in that packe= t, the SFC-aware SF MUST NOT

   process the packet and MUST log at leas= t once per the SPI for which

   mandatory metadata is missing.

 

4. NSH MD Type 1

Section 3.4:

-          The first paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads:

   When the Base Header specifies MD Type = =3D 0x1, four Context Headers,

   4-byte each, MUST be added immediately = following the Service Path

   Header, as per Figure 4.  Context = Headers that carry no metadata MUST

   be set to zero.

 

-          Update the text to read as follows:

   When the Base Header specifies MD Type = =3D 0x1, a Fixed Length

   Context Header (16-bytes) MUST be = added immediately following the Service Path

   Header, as per Figure 4.  A Fixed = Length Context Header that carries no metadata

   MUST be set to zero.

 

-          The third paragraph of section 3.4 currently reads:

   This specification does not make any as= sumption about the content

   placed in the mandatory context field o= f the NSH header, and does not

   describe the structure or meaning of th= e included metadata.

 

-          Update the text to read as follows:

   This specification does not make any as= sumptions about the content

   of the 16 byte Fixed Length Context Hea= der that must be present when

   the MD Type field is set to 0x1, a= nd does not describe the structure

   or meaning of the included metadata.

 

5. MD class registry

Section 12.2.4:

- Replace existing text with the following:

12.2.4.  MD Class Registry

 

   IANA is requested to set up a regi= stry of “MD Class”.  These are 16-

   bit values. New allocations are to be m= ade according to the

   following policies:

 

   0x0000 to 0x01ff: IETF Review=

   0x0200 to 0xfff5: Expert Review

   0xfff6 to 0xfffe: Experimental

   0xffff: Reserved

 

   IANA is requested to assign the fo= llowing value:

 

   MD Class | Meaning  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;    | Reference

   ---------+-------------------------= ---+-----------

   0x0000   | IETF Base NSH MD C= lass     | [This.I-D]

 

   Designated Experts evaluating new = allocation requests

   from the “Expert Review” ra= nge should principally

   consider whether a new MD class is need= ed compared to

   adding MD types to an existing class. T= he Designated

   Experts should also encourage the = existence of an

   associated and publically visible regis= try of MD types

   although this registry need not be main= tained by IANA.

 

6. New IETF assigned MD TLV Type Registry

- Add a new section 12.2.6 entitled "IETF Assig= ned MD TLV Type Registry" with the following text:

 

   This document requests IANA to create a= registry for the type values

   owned by the IETF (i.e., MD Class set t= o 0x0000) called the "IETF Assigned

   MD TLV Type Registry."<= /p>

 

   The type values are assigned via Standa= rds Action [RFC5226].

 

   No initial values are assigned at the c= reation of the registry.

 

7. NSH base header length field

Section 3.2:

-          Replace all of the existing text for the “length” field = with the following:

   

   Length: The total length, in 4-byt= e words, of the NSH including the

   Base Header, the Service Path Header, t= he Fixed Length Context Header

   or Optional Variable Length Metadata th= at is present. Then length MUST

   be of value 0x6 for MD Type equal to 0x= 1, and MUST be of value 0x2 or

   greater for MD Type equal to 0x2. = The length of the NSH header MUST

   be an integer multiple of 4 bytes, thus= variable length metadata is

   always padded out to a multiple of= 4 bytes.

 

8. Mandatory support for MD Type 2 no metadata

Section 3.2:

-          Current text for the first sentence for implementation support of me= tadata reads:

   NSH implementations MUST support MD Typ= e =3D 0x1, and SHOULD support MD

   Type =3D 0x2.

 

-          Suggestion to replace this text with the following as wG consensus f= or this change:

   NSH implementations MUST support MD typ= e =3D 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where the length

   is of value 0x2). NSH implementations S= HOULD support MD Type 0x2 with length > 0x2.

 

Thanks!

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

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This call for comment is open until the 5th of May Thanks M&T [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ From nobody Thu Apr 13 12:03:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE1B12956C; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:03:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7lJzT3kRAXD; 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Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:03:41 +0000 Received: from CO2PR05MB618.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.198.146]) by CO2PR05MB618.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.198.146]) with mapi id 15.01.1047.006; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:03:41 +0000 From: John E Drake To: BESS CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure Thread-Index: AQHStIBizWROpzavekSV7f1EGZ67jKHDp4LQ Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:03:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CO2PR05MB620; 7:hcc2NdSMatIq/h9thhhgm3g+uy54ppnj3gX4PY7PJxOJaxFQTE6Gc7yxQ9Jg8USmOaeSbKwkzpKWu3vHTRe749PaB/TZBYr0ckZEl9I/Mw/X90XfBI+IQinzhdP3QdbUMsKCZ5kOpEQhtgJFSZ3Dwv1dioqCwCZN3qPp8nUJltz0g0c9rcdHGfkCUbx2c3PNI4MtE3AEQxaYUcOvgD1g3X78vuEQ2ED8KTYYCEomM/tClmeoKXZMGCSKVCtPA+rqPinL/BVXITSz47+ra4h1Y95dRGWKrlg7+iXWB5sYA03hPtb5zVtrH7KAGnxLSKVqCDcqULTSQf9hTrfpB6pCvw== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c68bfefd-619a-4d2a-1f6c-08d4829fccc1 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO2PR05MB620; H:CO2PR05MB618.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Apr 2017 19:03:41.1295 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CO2PR05MB620 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:03:44 -0000 M&T, I still support the adoption. I looked at the subject patent and it appear= s to have very little to do with draft-mackie. I think this means that the= IPR assertion would be similarly made against *any* solution developed by = BESS. Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Vigoureux > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM > To: BESS > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control= -plane > adoption following the IPR disclosure >=20 > WG >=20 > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for comme= nt > specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how draft-ietf-be= ss-nsh- > bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. >=20 > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May >=20 > Thanks > M&T >=20 > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Fri Apr 14 09:43:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0BE129421; 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Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.32] ([76.126.247.72]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c83sm4220024pfd.113.2017.04.14.09.45.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:45:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Tantsura Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:45:15 -0700 Message-Id: <03E692EE-D1EC-45C4-85EB-D2FC06778081@gmail.com> Cc: BESS , "sfc@ietf.org" To: Martin Vigoureux X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14E304) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:45:22 -0000 Yes/support Regards, Jeff > On Apr 13, 2017, at 11:04, Martin Vigoureux w= rote: >=20 > WG >=20 > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against=20 > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for=20 > comment specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how=20 > draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. >=20 > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May >=20 > Thanks > M&T >=20 > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Fri Apr 14 09:49:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4ED128B8E; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:49:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3IHY1zLxilmM; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:49:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44C4B1294CE; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0083689.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0083689.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id v3EGkA7f048083; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:49:35 -0400 Received: from alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp7.sbc.com [144.160.229.24]) by m0083689.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 29twq13gm3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:49:35 -0400 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3EGnYeS008512; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:49:34 -0400 Received: from mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.239]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3EGnRkI008365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:49:31 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.149]) by mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:49:17 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRCA.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.1.23]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.149]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:49:17 -0400 From: "LINGALA, AVINASH" To: John E Drake , BESS CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure Thread-Index: AQHStIi1T7yWCm1sxEC3sJbVK6tw6KHFANjA Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:49:17 +0000 Message-ID: <69C84E23D6485E46BBAC817C2860E07D37EAEC5E@MISOUT7MSGUSRCA.ITServices.sbc.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.91.198.229] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-04-14_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1702020001 definitions=main-1704140143 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 16:49:42 -0000 I still support the adoption. Thanks, Avinash=20 -----Original Message----- From: BESS [mailto:bess-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John E Drake Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 3:04 PM To: BESS Cc: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bess] [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bg= p-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure M&T, I still support the adoption. I looked at the subject patent and it appear= s to have very little to do with draft-mackie. I think this means that the= IPR assertion would be similarly made against *any* solution developed by = BESS. Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Vigoureux > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM > To: BESS > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on=20 > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane > adoption following the IPR disclosure >=20 > WG >=20 > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for=20 > comment specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how=20 > draft-ietf-bess-nsh- bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. >=20 > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May >=20 > Thanks > M&T >=20 > [1]=20 > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf. > org_ipr_2980_&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DBrp6KjSZbKLoy2Ukj= hwk > Cg&m=3DehMaQDD-dPc_aAvjT9K9ornHKFsasBzQssYKQYdShn4&s=3D9bX6EnFiFVIJKujVIt= H > 4RkKo597AyFSnYMqrfdXh09I&e=3D >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail > man_listinfo_sfc&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DBrp6KjSZbKLoy2= Ukj > hwkCg&m=3DehMaQDD-dPc_aAvjT9K9ornHKFsasBzQssYKQYdShn4&s=3D8kpNlzV6glIyOof= c > Wti-2MnPBPXhixi3LNv5vJt-Tq0&e=3D _______________________________________________ BESS mailing list BESS@ietf.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman= _listinfo_bess&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DBrp6KjSZbKLoy2Ukjh= wkCg&m=3DehMaQDD-dPc_aAvjT9K9ornHKFsasBzQssYKQYdShn4&s=3DafbSOZlylyqyYgt13e= NgSrNn0q63XptOW9vecNk51l4&e=3D=20 From nobody Fri Apr 14 13:01:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47BB9129646; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5177F680EDDCEB4F9EC29EA73393B506@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:01:41 -0000 U3VwcG9ydC4gV2hpbGUgSSB3b27igJl0IGNvbW1lbnQgb24gc3BlY2lmaWNzLCB0aGUgSVBSIGFw cGVhcnMgdG8gb25seSBhcHBseQ0KdG8gb25lIGFzcGVjdCBvZiB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgU0ZDIG1l Y2hhbmlzbXMuDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBY2VlIA0KDQpPbiA0LzEzLzE3LCAyOjA0IFBNLCAiQkVTUyBv biBiZWhhbGYgb2YgTWFydGluIFZpZ291cmV1eCINCjxiZXNzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24g YmVoYWxmIG9mIG1hcnRpbi52aWdvdXJldXhAbm9raWEuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPldHDQo+DQo+ R2l2ZW4gdGhlIElQUiBkaXNjbG9zZWQgWzFdIGFnYWluc3QNCj5kcmFmdC1tYWNraWUtYmVzcy1u c2gtYmdwLWNvbnRyb2wtcGxhbmUsIHdlIGFyZSBzdGFydGluZyBhIGNhbGwgZm9yDQo+Y29tbWVu dCBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHkgdG8gbGV0IHBlb3BsZSBleHByZXNzIGEgcmV2aXNlZCBvcGluaW9uIG9u IGhvdw0KPmRyYWZ0LWlldGYtYmVzcy1uc2gtYmdwLWNvbnRyb2wtcGxhbmUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHB1 cnN1ZWQgaW4gQkVTUy4NCj4NCj5UaGlzIGNhbGwgZm9yIGNvbW1lbnQgaXMgb3BlbiB1bnRpbCB0 aGUgNXRoIG9mIE1heQ0KPg0KPlRoYW5rcw0KPk0mVA0KPg0KPlsxXSBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFj a2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2lwci8yOTgwLw0KPg0KPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+QkVTUyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj5CRVNTQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9iZXNzDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Apr 14 14:00:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94342129508 for ; 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Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:00:37 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Greg Mirsky'" , "'Dolganow, Andrew \(Nokia - SG/Singapore\)'" Cc: "'Joel M. Halpern'" , , "'Dave Dolson'" References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:00:41 +0100 Message-ID: <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0689_01D2B56A.8FE7A710" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQG31du0qGmAzc08a6gvXaNKfDAgWQEYjbicATSRvIUBnq61sAHGxXAVAf1vyZgB7h214gJSzG+uAf5dY46hi5X1kA== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23006.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--33.773-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--33.773-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: IeZYkn8zfFrDBNgbKIiiTClrosmS0SOAYoHH/gi0K9t6ttL9nwYPsqoy tXMP4p4TQ1ropejmC2jlPWOZdnoFfI7VvZCLNnEn7DzBuedLDxspWss5kPUFdC6ogQC9AmExtmj dHVJqZebmR66AekC9fj7s4zn/rRPXOGTJgRuqByaY63uuW+jaFUsRVi7tL1fl31GU/N5W5BAyr5 6f45o2606f9v7RRuowyRHuydhXzgzg9hsPOeKTK0hEDfw/93BuQPCWRE0Lo8J/y29NnT7OAyz7z bxSPANVxLsQ3jqFCUA45j2/H+PWYcwrDggcQ6d1vbFZsqMF9Y9TXz6ppaqoDA7AH5/ezluzDTe2 LH7huSvyBNKF/asa6s+go3RzIwvWKGWYAsXkscjcWo5Vvs8MQvn94Go09nBsYdpcZH3BrBT2vUz 4DKUdkeNLtVlcPRQXVkSDE/6liA3mzYT8cOkbWd35+5/2RxqmzJmqByfAaS2CsBeCv8CM/ZCN/2 7sS2jmZNTBHTayGijb9VzSSCvNWn2NS+KnccOu4NAJeq9IDSzkgaxh2Mn2ustgH5JIEplz60ymG L9M3RjvEStvxcI1GjKCWAhkTcAzq4h6jlXiXdPM1jffIgQXhpRy1HDTPOXaxe3blg14hRKHevEn VmTQT0AuLVKfwcUEIm7G8BJTcdkHvAxUe+03PfYiLRVJ915DkT7cMJfe6Jvjud2x7TPVt9Jl9Wa a9IqmUQadCSMfgQc6ocIxgws8GF2kuSHmn3uDVo6mn+xXmdVlrsuS5tC+P8naL1ri/ilX2zUIfO RoaiIRW3Fo+hK3sJbNfgtQUD+kR1vveBQPCRfCoQSXzGiR930tCKdnhB58r10pknZXGJqy5/tFZ u9S3PDS0mCJEJgsIAcCikR3vq/z0O14pmsuZ2eDKm5MCiuAt3nNCb2bi5YVV0OH2hN+cCcMWXz4 Jfzb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:00:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0689_01D2B56A.8FE7A710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. =20 Three things to add to this discussion. =20 With the removal of the C-bit, should we increase the size of the TTL by = 1 bit? If, as has been suggested, anything that is processing the NSH should = decrement the TTL, we can expect three decrements per SF (SFF in, SF, = SFF out), so we might welcome an extra bit. =20 Joel wrote > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. =20 I don't understand this. If a packet is initiated with TTL of 0, and = then processed, the TTL will be decremented. But decrementing 0 is = ambiguous. Actually, I don't understand initiating with TTL 0. What's that about? =20 Joel also wrote... > If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years = delaying > publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL I choose neither of these options! If there was a call to draft text, then I missed it. =20 Thanks, Adrian =20 =20 =20 From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Mirsky Sent: 13 April 2017 04:48 To: Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) Cc: Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL =20 Hi Andrew, as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm = OK. =20 Regards, Greg =20 On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) = wrote: I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the = point and does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to = the packet as it does mandates immediate drop. =20 Andrew =20 From: sfc on behalf of Dave Dolson = Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM To: Greg Mirsky , "Joel M. Halpern" = Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL =20 To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, the value of zero must only = be checked after decrementing. =20 Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT = be forwarded. =20 From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM To: Joel M. Halpern Cc: Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL =20 Hi Joel, perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for = NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere: Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The packet = MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate network layer = for error processing. =20 Regards, Greg =20 On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern = wrote: I am not sure what you are asking for. I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text = showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort = of ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more = importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not = bi-directional. If adding the TTL would result in the working group = spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally = prefer to skip the TTL. Yours, Joel On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: Hi Joel, since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL expiration may be desired, engineered event. Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF and SF to decrement the TTL. Opinions? Joel On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: Joel, One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? -Dave -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org ] On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL This was brought up on the list, and there was useful = discussion. The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1 = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto = | = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to deprecate that bit. There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. Thank you, Joel (and Jim) _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0689_01D2B56A.8FE7A710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello.

 

Three things to add to this = discussion.

 

With the removal of the C-bit, = should we increase the size of the TTL by 1 bit?

If, as has been suggested, = anything that is processing the NSH should decrement the TTL, we can = expect three decrements per SF (SFF in, SF, SFF out), so we might = welcome an extra bit.

 

Joel = wrote

>=C2=A0 The agreement observed on the = list is to decrement before

>=C2=A0 testing for 0, thus allowing an = NSH packet initiated with 0 to

>=C2=A0 be processed without any = special case coding.=C2=A0 The = default for

>=C2=A0 originating an NSH header will = be a TTL of 255.

 

I don't understand this. If a = packet is initiated with TTL of 0, and then processed, the TTL will be = decremented. But decrementing 0 is ambiguous.

Actually, I don't understand = initiating with TTL 0. What's that about?

 

Joel also = wrote...

> If adding the TTL would = result in the working group spending two years = delaying

> publication of NSH, I = would personally prefer to skip the TTL

I choose neither of these = options!

If there was a call to draft = text, then I missed it.

 

Thanks,

Adrian

 

 

 

From: sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg = Mirsky
Sent: 13 April 2017 04:48
To: Dolganow, = Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
Cc: Joel M. Halpern; = sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson
Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention = via TTL

 

Hi = Andrew,

as long as it doesn't = say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm = OK.

 

Regards,

Greg

 

On Wed, = Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com> = wrote:

I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is = clear and to the point and does not preclude any extra processing that = may take place to the packet as it does mandates immediate = drop.

 

Andrew

 

From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Dave Dolson = <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Date: Thursday, = April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. = Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" = <sfc@ietf.org>


Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop = prevention via = TTL

 

To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, = the value of zero must only be checked after decrementing.

 

    Outgoing packet = with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT be = forwarded.

 

From: Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, = April 12, 2017 4:58 PM
To: Joel M. Halpern
Cc: Dave = Dolson; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop = prevention via TTL

 

Hi = Joel,

perhaps the = following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for NSH = document and still leave room for detailed analysis = elsewhere:

Outgoing = packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The packet MAY be = discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate network layer for error = processing.

 

=

Regards,

Greg

<= div>

 

On Wed, Apr = 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> = wrote:

I am not = sure what you are asking for.
I did not write it, but I think we all = assumed, and the proposed text showed, that when the decrement results = in 0, the packet is dropped.

I suspect what youa re really asking = is whether we should add some sort of ICMP behavior.  The working = group did not ask for that.  And more importantly, it would be very = dificult, since SFPs are not bi-directional.  If adding the TTL = would result in the working group spending two years delaying = publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the = TTL.

Yours,
Joel

On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky = wrote:

Hi = Joel,
since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a = component
that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. = OAM, TTL
expiration may be desired, engineered = event.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, = Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:

  =   Good question.  My understanding was that the agreement was = for SFF
    and SF to decrement the TTL.

  =   Opinions?
    Joel


    On = 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:

        = Joel,
        One thing: we need to make it clear = which functions should
        decrement and test = the TTL. Only SFFs ?

        = -Dave


        -----Original = Message-----
        From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
      =   <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Joel M. = Halpern
        Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 = 2:57 PM

  =       To: sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
        = Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

      =   This was brought up on the list, and there was useful = discussion.
        The chairs neglected to close = off the discussion.
        While Jim is = collecting all the action items for the NSH draft,
    =     this email serves to report our conclusion about the = discussion
        of adding a TTL field to the = NSH header.

        While not everyone likes = the answer, there is rough consensus in
        = support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL.

  =       The specific change is to take 6 bits from the = flags, and use
        them as a TTL.  And = take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as
      =   reserved flag bits.  The backwards compatibility for = migration
        of existing implementations was = discussed, and seems workable.

        The = resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian = Farrel:

           0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      =     =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+           |Ver|O|R|    = TTL    |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type|  =    Proto     |
        =   =  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
        I have marked what was the C bit as R = for reserved (must be zero
        on = transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate
  =       rough consensus to deprecate that = bit.

        There was some discussion of = exactly how the TTL field should be
        = tested.
          The agreement observed on = the list is to decrement before
        testing = for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to
    =     be processed without any special case coding.  The = default for
        originating an NSH header = will be a TTL of 255.

        Please speak up = promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we
      =   are trying to get the document completed.  Also speak up = if
        there are additional clarifications = that we should have, to make
        sure the = authors reflect Working Group agreement.

      =   Thank you,
        Joel (and = Jim)

        = _______________________________________________
      =   sfc mailing list

    =     sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
 =       <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
        = _______________________________________________
      =   sfc mailing list
        sfc@ietf.org = <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
        https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
 =       <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>

    = _______________________________________________
    sfc = mailing list
    sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
 =   <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>

 

 

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Malis" Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:28:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Keyur Patel Cc: John E Drake , BESS , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ba450c3c0e5054d2720e3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:28:55 -0000 --001a113ba450c3c0e5054d2720e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I also agree with John. Cheers, Andy On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Keyur Patel wrote: > Agree with John. I support the adoption. > > On 4/13/17, 12:03 PM, "sfc on behalf of John E Drake" < > sfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of jdrake@juniper.net> wrote: > > M&T, > > I still support the adoption. I looked at the subject patent and it > appears to have very little to do with draft-mackie. I think this means > that the IPR assertion would be similarly made against *any* solution > developed by BESS. > > Yours Irrespectively, > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin > Vigoureux > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM > > To: BESS > > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp- > control-plane > > adoption following the IPR disclosure > > > > WG > > > > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for > comment > > specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how > draft-ietf-bess-nsh- > > bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. > > > > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May > > > > Thanks > > M&T > > > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess > --001a113ba450c3c0e5054d2720e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also agree with John.

Cheers,
Andy

On F= ri, Apr 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Keyur Patel <keyur@arrcus.com> = wrote:
Agree with John. I support the ado= ption.

On 4/13/17, 12:03 PM, "sfc on behalf of John E Drake" <sfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of jdrake@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 M&T,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I still support the adoption.=C2=A0 I looked at the subject p= atent and it appears to have very little to do with draft-mackie.=C2=A0 I t= hink this means that the IPR assertion would be similarly made against *any= * solution developed by BESS.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours Irrespectively,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 John


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Martin Vigoureux
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > To: BESS <bess@ietf.= org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Cc: sfc@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bes= s-nsh-bgp-control-plane
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > adoption following the IPR disclosure
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > WG
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are sta= rting a call for comment
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > specifically to let people express a revised opinion on = how draft-ietf-bess-nsh-
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Thanks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > M&T
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2= 980/
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sfc mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sfc@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/sfc

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sf= c


_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess

--001a113ba450c3c0e5054d2720e3-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 14:45:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F6712957F for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eZg3i4tzgpBo for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D7C812957A for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DKY86882; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:44:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:44:55 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:44:49 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "'Greg Mirsky'" , "'Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)'" CC: "'Joel M. Halpern'" , "'Dave Dolson'" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76xt+QcCY6lC06UZod6EMESiaHCkaGAgAAC2oCAAAf7gIAAB/oAgAAISYCAAAIzgIAASFcAgAAoAYCAArLwgP//lThQ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:44:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.151.186] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD174CSJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0202.58F142D9.0090, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 47bf8f6f8b7392a50eba815fedf36ee8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:45:04 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD174CSJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SXMgdGhlcmUgYW55IGdvb2QgdGVjaG5pY2FsIHJlYXNvbiB0byBkZWNyZW1lbnQgdGhlIFRUTCBh dCBhbiBTRiBnaXZlbiB0aGF0IHRoZSBTRkYgd2lsbCBjYXRjaCB0aGUgbG9vcCBhbnl3YXk/LiBB bHNvLCBub3RlIHRoYXQgYW4gU0YgZG9lcyBub3QgZm9yd2FyZCBwYWNrZXRzIGJhc2VkIHVwb24g dGhlIE5TSCBlbmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIGFuZCBJIHdvdWxkIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgZGVjcmVtZW50aW5n IHRoZSBUVEwgaXMgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgZm9yd2FyZGluZyBvcGVyYXRpb24uDQoNCkppbQ0KDQpG cm9tOiBzZmMgW21haWx0bzpzZmMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFkcmlh biBGYXJyZWwNClNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgQXByaWwgMTQsIDIwMTcgNTowMSBQTQ0KVG86ICdHcmVn 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localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EvdWu5yOgiaS for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58DC5129564 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4C68C0026; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:47:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492206462; bh=/tBJuyGqRzz78uXdTd4b6kgUQNGr98wY8nwLbuFelMY=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=rSYUE8GbRLw3gthKA/b2AlHRrfUOA2P6PiAP6gKjVIAmYbDB9AXGuDBuYqGl2muQ0 CSPGl5TQzs6W+s/Xj7D1clw9/9EqNk4c35vNEtypv1f3iE7ORjjePx+kh8d1YFdwET fimhNeIDdgQ0DHosAkzUleWVSofgpOABH/dOQ6n8= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C33B71C0274; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:47:40 -0700 (PDT) To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Greg Mirsky' , "'Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)'" References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> Cc: sfc@ietf.org, 'Dave Dolson' From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <50f74156-0448-0fa3-3c8a-41ec1a0237a6@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 17:47:39 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:47:44 -0000 Adrian. Comments in -line. Yours, Joel On 4/14/17 5:00 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hello. > > > > Three things to add to this discussion. > > > > With the removal of the C-bit, should we increase the size of the TTL by > 1 bit? > > If, as has been suggested, anything that is processing the NSH should > decrement the TTL, we can expect three decrements per SF (SFF in, SF, > SFF out), so we might welcome an extra bit. As chair, I can live with either. As a participant, I tend to prefer 6 bits, but it is very small preference. > > > > Joel wrote > >> The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > >> testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > >> be processed without any special case coding. The default for > >> originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > > > I don't understand this. If a packet is initiated with TTL of 0, and > then processed, the TTL will be decremented. But decrementing 0 is > ambiguous. > > Actually, I don't understand initiating with TTL 0. What's that about? This was a discussion on the list. First, as was pointed out to me privately, as it is a 6 bit field, the starting value is 63. The question is what happens if the initial classifier has not yet been upgraded to compliance with the RFC. If the logic is taht suggested by Dave Dolson: Decrement TTL; Compare with 0 -> Do not forward if 0; Then things work even if the initial classifier (or a reclassifier which is not complaint and over-writes all the flag bits) sets the TTL to 0. This helps us with migration. > > > > Joel also wrote... > >> If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years delaying > >> publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL > > I choose neither of these options! > > If there was a call to draft text, then I missed it. Greg had suggested that we needed to spell out the full OAM implications of the TTL handling. My experience as a participant and leader is that trying to work out all the implications would produce an unacceptable delay. Greg has since stated that as long as we define the TTL expiration behavior as "do not forward", he can live with it for this document. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > > > > > > > *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* 13 April 2017 04:48 > *To:* Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) > *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > Hi Andrew, > > as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm OK. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) > > wrote: > > I like Dave’s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the point > and does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to the > packet as it does mandates immediate drop. > > > > Andrew > > > > *From: *sfc > on > behalf of Dave Dolson > > *Date: *Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM > *To: *Greg Mirsky >, "Joel M. Halpern" > > *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org " > > > > *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, the value of zero must only > be checked after decrementing. > > > > Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT > be forwarded. > > > > *From:*Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com > ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM > *To:* Joel M. Halpern > *Cc:* Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > > > Hi Joel, > > perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for > NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere: > > Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The > packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate > network layer for error processing. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > I am not sure what you are asking for. > I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text > showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. > > I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort > of ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more > importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not > bi-directional. If adding the TTL would result in the working group > spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally > prefer to skip the TTL. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Joel, > since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component > that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL > expiration may be desired, engineered event. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > >> wrote: > > Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF > and SF to decrement the TTL. > > Opinions? > Joel > > > On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: > > Joel, > One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should > decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? > > -Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > >] On > Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM > > To: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, > this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion > of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use > them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as > reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration > of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero > on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate > rough consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be > tested. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to > be processed without any special case coding. The default for > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we > are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if > there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make > sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > From nobody Fri Apr 14 15:30:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0D61296C9 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E_sYwxA2cHKN for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75F521296B0 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id f22so102095639oib.2 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Bkzs6HGHu3m0o7EMQBNpJhBnjNggvJ5PSdggEoywwYY=; b=IdbBg0K6er3D6z2oqsptXTkytzf9ae0z4dndQkKOUqpimGSlHMQWTnL03/xiCjuEHy Q/M3DeW91DkvcdNTYSKdMhuzelnlAhgQp+BioLC0vn6nkIaP03WMOISX0psO6p8bnaUz eWQwz2yyJbpbOww/12fg9J/JGAj3DqiLihlcy9sL5W5SPgekLsTfZVwxC9R+0nrPtwPr pFKoi+u48GL79ThFoxsZM1LKQyae4RGikanvANN2pgVPVUGvvuqZWxYZc+qVfNz80PE1 Ww6JL0xgCEa6GgQfuplclXzg96fTlyJL/1dlU5Bztgr8bNIyUCmBpxfpYcJun+GDTv51 Q+yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Bkzs6HGHu3m0o7EMQBNpJhBnjNggvJ5PSdggEoywwYY=; b=VueZ7KPKzy4y3y06m/tfD3ITLxO//CsIkNZjXRX1+kp27VInlyQvMVTo9wTjXQ9q9t mqJV2p4+ornYw2ukUOzA2TFwyIGFGF5ppfu9FzJn+2+xU2hbQaoe2o7XmWLUYj4FORf9 G78Es0Ql5IuaCwfTqEG7uL7ylyqr/D08NXMr/TYxvgJCCIdzzZg91cHgVEVX01LU2+7J tBiO1gi1ndnJbHdb7DZz9gzlLhC724Go9CCUX2kbX/N0G8zGIkP5cACc4Zkxl2VqWqIP XZgdtERrARWNNGS4xNS+Fiq9F0sTZgJYWzo6jU5XFJkHK9QkVKvZowh1y75oHmDJA3j8 9QDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6RCa6CIf1KuFV5vZAKUA0cJqKu45csaoGN852idS9wD/nv0x07 gvEpSkUFbw/YOym7lmDz74EWxe9/sQ== X-Received: by 10.202.206.84 with SMTP id e81mr5579207oig.158.1492209053778; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.89.225 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <50f74156-0448-0fa3-3c8a-41ec1a0237a6@joelhalpern.com> References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> <50f74156-0448-0fa3-3c8a-41ec1a0237a6@joelhalpern.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:30:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: Adrian Farrel , "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" , sfc@ietf.org, Dave Dolson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ad99c94c9ab054d27fe96 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:30:57 -0000 --001a113ad99c94c9ab054d27fe96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I've mentioned the Alternate Marking method that can be used as truly passive method to measure packet loss and delay. The method requires allocation of Marking field so that the value of the field does not affect the processing of the packet by the network. Ideally, it could be two bits long, but one bit will do too. I don't think it has to be defined in the NSH document at this time. I just would like us to consider how limited number of reserved bits we have in the fixed header. Regards, Greg On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Adrian. Comments in -line. > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/14/17 5:00 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >> Hello. >> >> >> >> Three things to add to this discussion. >> >> >> >> With the removal of the C-bit, should we increase the size of the TTL by >> 1 bit? >> >> If, as has been suggested, anything that is processing the NSH should >> decrement the TTL, we can expect three decrements per SF (SFF in, SF, >> SFF out), so we might welcome an extra bit. >> > > As chair, I can live with either. As a participant, I tend to prefer 6 > bits, but it is very small preference. > > >> >> >> Joel wrote >> >> The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before >>> >> >> testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to >>> >> >> be processed without any special case coding. The default for >>> >> >> originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. >>> >> >> >> >> I don't understand this. If a packet is initiated with TTL of 0, and >> then processed, the TTL will be decremented. But decrementing 0 is >> ambiguous. >> >> Actually, I don't understand initiating with TTL 0. What's that about? >> > > This was a discussion on the list. First, as was pointed out to me > privately, as it is a 6 bit field, the starting value is 63. > The question is what happens if the initial classifier has not yet been > upgraded to compliance with the RFC. If the logic is taht suggested by > Dave Dolson: > > Decrement TTL; > Compare with 0 -> Do not forward if 0; > > Then things work even if the initial classifier (or a reclassifier which > is not complaint and over-writes all the flag bits) sets the TTL to 0. Th= is > helps us with migration. > > >> >> >> Joel also wrote... >> >> If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years >>> delaying >>> >> >> publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL >>> >> >> I choose neither of these options! >> >> If there was a call to draft text, then I missed it. >> > > Greg had suggested that we needed to spell out the full OAM implications > of the TTL handling. My experience as a participant and leader is that > trying to work out all the implications would produce an unacceptable > delay. Greg has since stated that as long as we define the TTL expiratio= n > behavior as "do not forward", he can live with it for this document. > > >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Adrian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky >> *Sent:* 13 April 2017 04:48 >> *To:* Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) >> *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern; sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> >> >> Hi Andrew, >> >> as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I'm >> OK. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) >> > wrote: >> >> I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the = point >> and does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to the >> packet as it does mandates immediate drop. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> *From: *sfc > on >> behalf of Dave Dolson > >> >> *Date: *Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM >> *To: *Greg Mirsky > >, "Joel M. Halpern" > > >> *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org " > > >> >> >> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> >> >> To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, the value of zero must only >> be checked after decrementing. >> >> >> >> Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 MUST NOT >> be forwarded. >> >> >> >> *From:*Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com >> ] >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM >> *To:* Joel M. Halpern >> *Cc:* Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> >> >> Hi Joel, >> >> perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for >> NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere: >> >> Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. The >> packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriate >> network layer for error processing. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern > > wrote: >> >> I am not sure what you are asking for. >> I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text >> showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped. >> >> I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort >> of ICMP behavior. The working group did not ask for that. And more >> importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not >> bi-directional. If adding the TTL would result in the working group >> spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally >> prefer to skip the TTL. >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: >> >> Hi Joel, >> since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component >> that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL >> expiration may be desired, engineered event. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern > >> >> wrote: >> >> Good question. My understanding was that the agreement was for SFF >> and SF to decrement the TTL. >> >> Opinions? >> Joel >> >> >> On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote: >> >> Joel, >> One thing: we need to make it clear which functions should >> decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ? >> >> -Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > sfc-bounces@ietf.org> >> >] On >> Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern >> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM >> >> To: sfc@ietf.org > >> > >> Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL >> >> This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion= . >> The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. >> While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, >> this email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion >> of adding a TTL field to the NSH header. >> >> While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in >> support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. >> >> The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use >> them as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as >> reserved flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration >> of existing implementations was discussed, and seems workable. >> >> The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: >> >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0= 1 >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> -+-+-+ >> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto >> | >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> -+-+-+ >> >> I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero >> on transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate >> rough consensus to deprecate that bit. >> >> There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be >> tested. >> The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before >> testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to >> be processed without any special case coding. The default for >> originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. >> >> Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we >> are trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if >> there are additional clarifications that we should have, to make >> sure the authors reflect Working Group agreement. >> >> Thank you, >> Joel (and Jim) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> >> sfc@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --001a113ad99c94c9ab054d27fe96 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
I've mentioned the Alternate Marking met= hod that can be used as truly passive method to measure packet loss and del= ay. The method requires allocation of Marking field so that the value of th= e field does not affect the processing of the packet by the network. Ideall= y, it could be two bits long, but one bit will do too.
I don'= t think it has to be defined in the NSH document at this time. I just would= like us to consider how limited number of reserved bits we have in the fix= ed header.

Regards,
Greg



On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelh= alpern.com> wrote:
Adrian.= =C2=A0 Comments in -line.
Yours,
Joel

On 4/14/17 5:00 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
Hello.



Three things to add to this discussion.



With the removal of the C-bit, should we increase the size of the TTL by 1 bit?

If, as has been suggested, anything that is processing the NSH should
decrement the TTL, we can expect three decrements per SF (SFF in, SF,
SFF out), so we might welcome an extra bit.

 As chair, I can live with either.=C2=A0 As a participant, I tend to prefer = 6 bits, but it is very small preference.




Joel wrote

=C2=A0The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before

=C2=A0testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to

=C2=A0be processed without any special case coding.=C2=A0 The default for

=C2=A0originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255.



I don't understand this. If a packet is initiated with TTL of 0, and then processed, the TTL will be decremented. But decrementing 0 is
ambiguous.

Actually, I don't understand initiating with TTL 0. What's that abo= ut?

 This was a discussion on the list.=C2=A0 First, as was pointed out to me pr= ivately, as it is a 6 bit field, the starting value is 63.
The question is what happens if the initial classifier has not yet been upg= raded to compliance with the RFC.=C2=A0 If the logic is taht suggested by D= ave Dolson:

Decrement TTL;
Compare with 0 -> Do not forward if 0;

Then things work even if the initial classifier (or a reclassifier which is= not complaint and over-writes all the flag bits) sets the TTL to 0. This h= elps us with migration.




Joel also wrote...

If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years dela= ying

publication of NSH, I would personally prefer to skip the TTL

I choose neither of these options!

If there was a call to draft text, then I missed it.

 Greg had suggested that we needed to spell out the full OAM implications of= the TTL handling.=C2=A0 My experience as a participant and leader is that = trying to work out all the implications would produce an unacceptable delay= .=C2=A0 Greg has since stated that as long as we define the TTL expiration = behavior as "do not forward", he can live with it for this docume= nt.




Thanks,

Adrian







*From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
*Sent:* 13 April 2017 04:48
*To:* Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)
*Cc:* Joel M. Halpern; sf= c@ietf.org; Dave Dolson
*Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL



Hi Andrew,

as long as it doesn't say MUST do X, but instead uses MUST NOT do Y, I&= #39;m OK.



Regards,

Greg



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore) <andrew.d= olganow@nokia.com <mailto:andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>> wrote:

I like Dave=E2=80=99s text better. MUST not forward is clear and to the poi= nt
and does not preclude any extra processing that may take place to the
packet as it does mandates immediate drop.



Andrew



 *From: *sfc <s= fc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>> on
behalf of Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:05 AM
*To: *Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com
<mailto:gregi= mirsky@gmail.com>>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com>>
*Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org<= /a> <mailto:sfc@ietf.o= rg>" <sfc@= ietf.org
<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>


*Subject: *Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL



To make it more precise, as Joel mentioned, the value of zero must only
be checked after decrementing.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 after decrementing by 1 M= UST NOT
be forwarded.



 *From:*Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
<mailto:gregi= mirsky@gmail.com>]
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:58 PM
*To:* Joel M. Halpern
*Cc:* Dave Dolson; sfc@ie= tf.org <mailto:sfc= @ietf.org>
*Subject:* Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL



Hi Joel,

perhaps the following explanation of TTL handling will be sufficient for NSH document and still leave room for detailed analysis elsewhere:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Outgoing packet with TTL value of 0 MUST NOT be forwarded. Th= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet MAY be discarded or it MAY be passed to the appropriat= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network layer for error processing.



Regards,

Greg



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
 <mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com>> wrote:

I am not sure what you are asking for.
I did not write it, but I think we all assumed, and the proposed text
showed, that when the decrement results in 0, the packet is dropped.

I suspect what youa re really asking is whether we should add some sort
of ICMP behavior.=C2=A0 The working group did not ask for that.=C2=A0 And m= ore
importantly, it would be very dificult, since SFPs are not
bi-directional.=C2=A0 If adding the TTL would result in the working group spending two years delaying publication of NSH, I would personally
prefer to skip the TTL.

Yours,
Joel

On 4/12/17 3:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:

Hi Joel,
since we're introducing TTL, should we define behavior of a component that realizes that TTL had expired? In some scenario, e.g. OAM, TTL
expiration may be desired, engineered event.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
<mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com>
 <mailto:jmh@joe= lhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Good question.=C2=A0 My understanding was that the agreement = was for SFF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and SF to decrement the TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Opinions?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 4/12/17 3:20 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 One thing: we need to make it clear which funct= ions should
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 decrement and test the TTL. Only SFFs ?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Dave


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -----Original Message-----
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>= ;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>>] On
Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:57 PM

 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To: sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org

<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Subject: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This was brought up on the list, and there was = useful discussion.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The chairs neglected to close off the discussio= n.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While Jim is collecting all the action items fo= r the NSH draft,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this email serves to report our conclusion abou= t the discussion
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of adding a TTL field to the NSH header.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 While not everyone likes the answer, there is r= ough consensus in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support of changing the NSH header to include a= TTL.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The specific change is to take 6 bits from the = flags, and use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them as a TTL.=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the M= D-Type and use them as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 reserved flag bits.=C2=A0 The backwards compati= bility for migration
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of existing implementations was discussed, and = seems workable.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed b= y Adrian Farrel:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 = 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Prot= o=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have marked what was the C bit as R for reser= ved (must be zero
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission, ignored on reception), as we h= ave a separate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rough consensus to deprecate that bit.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There was some discussion of exactly how the TT= L field should be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tested.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The agreement observed on the list is to= decrement before
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet init= iated with 0 to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be processed without any special case coding.= =C2=A0 The default for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem= with this, as we
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are trying to get the document completed.=C2=A0= Also speak up if
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 there are additional clarifications that we sho= uld have, to make
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure the authors reflect Working Group agreemen= t.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel (and Jim)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<= wbr>istinfo/sfc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sfc>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __________________________________________= _____
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<= wbr>istinfo/sfc
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/sfc>


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.or= g <mailto:sfc@ietf= .org> <mailto:s= fc@ietf.org
<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sf= c
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/sfc>






--001a113ad99c94c9ab054d27fe96-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 20:41:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223EC128ACA for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:41:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMNxnjhCA3Rc for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F52A128A32 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (unknown [112.200.233.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFA4D18014F3 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 05:41:37 +0200 (CEST) To: sfc@ietf.org References: From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:41:30 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 03:41:45 -0000 Folks, I also agree with John, and support that we continue to work on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane. /Loa On 2017-04-15 05:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > I also agree with John. > > Cheers, > Andy > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Keyur Patel > wrote: > > Agree with John. I support the adoption. > > On 4/13/17, 12:03 PM, "sfc on behalf of John E Drake" > on behalf of > jdrake@juniper.net > wrote: > > M&T, > > I still support the adoption. I looked at the subject patent > and it appears to have very little to do with draft-mackie. I think > this means that the IPR assertion would be similarly made against > *any* solution developed by BESS. > > Yours Irrespectively, > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > ] On Behalf Of Martin Vigoureux > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM > > To: BESS > > > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane > > adoption following the IPR disclosure > > > > WG > > > > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a > call for comment > > specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how > draft-ietf-bess-nsh- > > bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. > > > > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May > > > > Thanks > > M&T > > > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Sat Apr 15 00:49:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83811293E4; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 00:49:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 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by mercury.verizonwireless.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 15 Apr 2017 07:48:50 +0000 Received: from OMZP1LUMXCA05.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (144.8.22.175) by GAALPEXHUB2.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (10.191.138.196) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.406.0; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 03:48:49 -0400 Received: from OMZP1LUMXCA07.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (144.8.22.180) by OMZP1LUMXCA05.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com (144.8.22.175) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 02:48:48 -0500 Received: from OMZP1LUMXCA07.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([144.8.22.180]) by OMZP1LUMXCA07.uswin.ad.vzwcorp.com ([144.8.22.180]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 02:48:48 -0500 To: BESS CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure Thread-Index: AQHStby3034M0loOcUuHRBcU6IkGnQ== Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:48:48 +0000 Message-ID: <49EF93F5-4278-40CC-B5B8-276BF3038DF8@one.verizon.com> References: In-Reply-To: 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[86.183.86.67]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 43sm13538266wry.31.2017.04.17.03.25.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Apr 2017 03:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Daniel King X-Google-Original-Sender: "Daniel King" From: To: "'Loa Andersson'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:25:10 +0100 Message-ID: <009001d2b764$e5340550$af9c0ff0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQLmxRzEtpxCwlvmoDHvn+/lLd4HqgLKoqq5Acaf9HECXjDNugGUmntsn10e3BA= Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:25:17 -0000 +1 with Johns assessment. BR, Dan. -----Original Message----- From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson Sent: 15 April 2017 04:42 To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure Folks, I also agree with John, and support that we continue to work on draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane. /Loa On 2017-04-15 05:28, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > I also agree with John. > > Cheers, > Andy > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Keyur Patel > wrote: > > Agree with John. I support the adoption. > > On 4/13/17, 12:03 PM, "sfc on behalf of John E Drake" > on behalf of > jdrake@juniper.net > wrote: > > M&T, > > I still support the adoption. I looked at the subject patent > and it appears to have very little to do with draft-mackie. I think > this means that the IPR assertion would be similarly made against > *any* solution developed by BESS. > > Yours Irrespectively, > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org > ] On Behalf Of Martin Vigoureux > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 2:04 PM > > To: BESS > > > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane > > adoption following the IPR disclosure > > > > WG > > > > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a > call for comment > > specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how > draft-ietf-bess-nsh- > > bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. > > > > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May > > > > Thanks > > M&T > > > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2980/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Mon Apr 17 05:32:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63FF12EC70; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 05:32:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-htCHSPSmm1; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 05:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20CAD12EC68; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 05:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. 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Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76m0gVsNn4M3EmZhmiAQOfACaHJ6vIA Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:34:16 +0000 Message-ID: <931034D7-3508-4161-987B-102DAE68830D@f5.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.18.0.160709 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [172.23.251.193] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5E11FDAB4B9F7548864D45204A7B78CC@F5.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:34:20 -0000 U3VwcG9ydC4NCg0KUXVpdGUgYSBiaXQgaGFzIGFscmVhZHkgYmVlbiBkaXNjdXNzZWQuIE15ICAk MC4yDQoxKSBPbmx5IFNGRiBkZWNyZW1lbnQgVFRMDQoyKSBJZiBUVEwgPSAwIEFGVEVSIGRlY3Jl bWVudCwgdGhlbiBTRkYgbXVzdCBkcm9wIHRoaXMgcGFja2V0LiANCg0KT24gNC8xMi8xNywgMTE6 NTcgQU0sICJzZmMgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIEpvZWwgTS4gSGFscGVybiIgPHNmYy1ib3VuY2VzQGll dGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBqbWhAam9lbGhhbHBlcm4uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIFRo aXMgd2FzIGJyb3VnaHQgdXAgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QsIGFuZCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgdXNlZnVsIGRpc2N1 c3Npb24uDQogICAgVGhlIGNoYWlycyBuZWdsZWN0ZWQgdG8gY2xvc2Ugb2ZmIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNz aW9uLg0KICAgIFdoaWxlIEppbSBpcyBjb2xsZWN0aW5nIGFsbCB0aGUgYWN0aW9uIGl0ZW1zIGZv ciB0aGUgTlNIIGRyYWZ0LCB0aGlzIA0KICAgIGVtYWlsIHNlcnZlcyB0byByZXBvcnQgb3VyIGNv bmNsdXNpb24gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgYWRkaW5nIGEgDQogICAgVFRMIGZpZWxk IHRvIHRoZSBOU0ggaGVhZGVyLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFdoaWxlIG5vdCBldmVyeW9uZSBsaWtlcyB0 aGUgYW5zd2VyLCB0aGVyZSBpcyByb3VnaCBjb25zZW5zdXMgaW4gc3VwcG9ydCANCiAgICBvZiBj aGFuZ2luZyB0aGUgTlNIIGhlYWRlciB0byBpbmNsdWRlIGEgVFRMLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSBz cGVjaWZpYyBjaGFuZ2UgaXMgdG8gdGFrZSA2IGJpdHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgZmxhZ3MsIGFuZCB1c2Ug dGhlbSBhcyBhIA0KICAgIFRUTC4gIEFuZCB0YWtlIDQgYml0cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBNRC1UeXBlIGFu ZCB1c2UgdGhlbSBhcyByZXNlcnZlZCBmbGFnIA0KICAgIGJpdHMuICBUaGUgYmFja3dhcmRzIGNv bXBhdGliaWxpdHkgZm9yIG1pZ3JhdGlvbiBvZiBleGlzdGluZyANCiAgICBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlv bnMgd2FzIGRpc2N1c3NlZCwgYW5kIHNlZW1zIHdvcmthYmxlLg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSByZXN1 bHRpbmcgcGFja2V0IGZvcm1hdCBpcywgYXMgZGlhZ3JhbW1lZCBieSBBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsOg0K ICAgIA0KICAgICAgIDAgMSAyIDMgNCA1IDYgNyA4IDkgMCAxIDIgMyA0IDUgNiA3IDggOSAwIDEg MiAzIDQgNSA2IDcgOCA5IDAgMQ0KICAgICAgICstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0r LSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rDQogICAgICAgfFZlcnxPfFJ8ICAg IFRUTCAgICB8ICAgTGVuZ3RoICB8UnxSfFJ8UnxNRCBUeXBlfCAgICAgUHJvdG8gICAgIHwNCiAg ICAgICArLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSstKy0rLSst Ky0rLSstKy0rLSstKw0KICAgIA0KICAgIEkgaGF2ZSBtYXJrZWQgd2hhdCB3YXMgdGhlIEMgYml0 IGFzIFIgZm9yIHJlc2VydmVkIChtdXN0IGJlIHplcm8gb24gDQogICAgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLCBp Z25vcmVkIG9uIHJlY2VwdGlvbiksIGFzIHdlIGhhdmUgYSBzZXBhcmF0ZSByb3VnaCANCiAgICBj b25zZW5zdXMgdG8gZGVwcmVjYXRlIHRoYXQgYml0Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZXJlIHdhcyBzb21l IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgZXhhY3RseSBob3cgdGhlIFRUTCBmaWVsZCBzaG91bGQgYmUgdGVzdGVk LiANCiAgICAgIFRoZSBhZ3JlZW1lbnQgb2JzZXJ2ZWQgb24gdGhlIGxpc3QgaXMgdG8gZGVjcmVt ZW50IGJlZm9yZSB0ZXN0aW5nIGZvciANCiAgICAwLCB0aHVzIGFsbG93aW5nIGFuIE5TSCBwYWNr ZXQgaW5pdGlhdGVkIHdpdGggMCB0byBiZSBwcm9jZXNzZWQgd2l0aG91dCANCiAgICBhbnkgc3Bl Y2lhbCBjYXNlIGNvZGluZy4gIFRoZSBkZWZhdWx0IGZvciBvcmlnaW5hdGluZyBhbiBOU0ggaGVh ZGVyIHdpbGwgDQogICAgYmUgYSBUVEwgb2YgMjU1Lg0KICAgIA0KICAgIFBsZWFzZSBzcGVhayB1 cCBwcm9tcHRseSBpZiBmb2xrcyBzZWUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggdGhpcywgYXMgd2UgYXJlIA0K ICAgIHRyeWluZyB0byBnZXQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGNvbXBsZXRlZC4gIEFsc28gc3BlYWsgdXAg aWYgdGhlcmUgYXJlIA0KICAgIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbnMgdGhhdCB3ZSBzaG91 bGQgaGF2ZSwgdG8gbWFrZSBzdXJlIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIA0KICAgIHJlZmxlY3QgV29ya2luZyBH cm91cCBhZ3JlZW1lbnQuDQogICAgDQogICAgVGhhbmsgeW91LA0KICAgIEpvZWwgKGFuZCBKaW0p DQogICAgDQogICAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCiAgICBzZmMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgc2ZjQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zZmMNCiAgICANCg0K From nobody Mon Apr 17 11:56:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDAD131592 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:56:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HUiMYwO-cDmr for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE25513157C for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 11:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:56:20 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: James N Guichard , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'Greg Mirsky' , "'Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)'" CC: "'Joel M. Halpern'" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76mw6BJbapv9kW5hTelYGGL6KHCG5HwgABGn4CAAAf8gIAAB/oAgAAISID//76voIAAi9sAgAAoAoCAArLwgIAADFMAgAREv1A= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:56:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E987058CC63wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 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h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pi8Ukb1DHitOQZtmuYn4MW10I7U5LBQKlQIcNCkYE+A=; b=AXm4pZisS7Cf7Us/cUtVKVvUwiqm+uUs5qLVXwEDW3Dm0WYtuLouw8nt/FNiUf2EoS H/VI18TYEpEtja2vI28vmgQD6DdNAjOnmPSo4WFQrfuY0QKIxWdiKtnrqOcJtPYSdpqG ixpwU6yIxWntZ6HFYjfkJA9It13C88zq/4b34kaXZb9VNkmLZ4g90qkgtwqn7+2BMnbc iekhrrn3+xH3NWmTLpGH3megdJS5nrMd2dAr8nry/d31Bye9gQXCSHjA73P8tFLxY+gs qDWTuHYRj18xlx8n6OOA+tZtcRvzmrzHzzw6FBDFN++ZEZX1eMHCRtA3WkeHAdo49XR0 2wxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7QIc5n4EMgHrHsdG7tgahToCub4rCZAzt+0GGK2n9LAXYSOIvd zBh6bu9ohC3HeO8CjN7ybNmOWnBGvQ== X-Received: by 10.202.168.15 with SMTP id r15mr5357049oie.62.1492465135333; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:38:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.89.225 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:38:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Joel M. Halpern" Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113c328c3b3ff0054d639ed4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 21:38:58 -0000 --001a113c328c3b3ff0054d639ed4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Joel, I've got some concern about the behavior we expect from the SFC entities that do not support TTL. The current draft requires that Reserved fields be set to zero on transmit and ignored on receipt. If we have such entities in the SFC, wouldn't these reset the TTL field on each NSH that traverses them? and thus we still may have undetectable infinite loop (it is not worse than without TTL). Not sure we can really fix it but perhaps mention such scenario in the document would be helpful. Regards, Greg On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email > serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field > to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support > of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a > TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits. > The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementations was > discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus > to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0, > thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any > special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header will be a > TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are > additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors > reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a113c328c3b3ff0054d639ed4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Joel,
I've got some concern about the behavior = we expect from the SFC entities that do not support TTL. The current draft = requires that Reserved fields be set to zero on transmit and ignored on rec= eipt. If we have such entities in the SFC, wouldn't these reset the TTL= field on each NSH that traverses them? and thus we still may have undetect= able infinite loop (it is not worse than without TTL). Not sure we can real= ly fix it but perhaps mention such scenario in the document would be helpfu= l.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:= 57 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
This was brought up on the list, and there was = useful discussion.
The chairs neglected to close off the discussion.
While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this email = serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a TTL field = to the NSH header.

While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in support of= changing the NSH header to include a TTL.

The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as a TTL= .=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag bits= .=C2=A0 The backwards compatibility for migration of existing implementatio= ns was discussed, and seems workable.

The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel:

=C2=A0 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
=C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |= R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Proto=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on transmi= ssion, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough consensus to depr= ecate that bit.

There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be tested.=C2= =A0 The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing for 0= , thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed without any = special case coding.=C2=A0 The default for originating an NSH header will b= e a TTL of 255.

Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are trying= to get the document completed.=C2=A0 Also speak up if there are additional= clarifications that we should have, to make sure the authors reflect Worki= ng Group agreement.

Thank you,
Joel (and Jim)

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--001a113c328c3b3ff0054d639ed4-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 15:27:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EF161289B5 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:27:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GNpkBId8TPGO for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E7141242F7 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:27:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543D6B8022B; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:27:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492468061; bh=XXBXU8xNiXq67BBElulkWXw07llLxl4xXIBeIu15i08=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Vn6eElpVgelnd5hUQLi2K76mAvgCq7jYM3ScjI4SAxG3RQmF/xQHnCJ8QPUYxIeK6 Un98dQQmAyiHii88zUyMpDQAdJeeptDfAMfFVp6dHgzwmuj4zvj5KFDhtIoX14qhNg gZT3k2qNCI8YyzUhCx2xYK+Nh2ZFtX710dmCkokA= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D86FBB8023C; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Greg Mirsky References: Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <76f90ede-3427-791a-a225-871299ab30f9@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:27:39 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 22:27:43 -0000 Greg, SFF (and SF, and proxy SF) do not create the NSH header. They do modify it. Hence, an NSH should preserve the reserved bits unmodified. This is common practice in protocols across the IETF. We can change the wording if you like, but it will not chane the behavior of existing devices. If they gratuitously modified flags, then they will break things. As far as I can tell, the WG agreed that was unlikely. Also, that is not our primary concern. We want to make it easy to work with existing implementations, but not at the cost of being crazy. Yours, Joel On 4/17/17 5:38 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Joel, > I've got some concern about the behavior we expect from the SFC entities > that do not support TTL. The current draft requires that Reserved fields > be set to zero on transmit and ignored on receipt. If we have such > entities in the SFC, wouldn't these reset the TTL field on each NSH that > traverses them? and thus we still may have undetectable infinite loop > (it is not worse than without TTL). Not sure we can really fix it but > perhaps mention such scenario in the document would be helpful. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 11:57 AM, Joel M. Halpern > wrote: > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this > email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding > a TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in > support of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them > as a TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved > flag bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing > implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough > consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be > tested. The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before > testing for 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be > processed without any special case coding. The default for > originating an NSH header will be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are > additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the > authors reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > From nobody Mon Apr 17 16:49:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F7212944C for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:49:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qIrMa3rw73fx for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94E1C124D68 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:49:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2751; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1492472972; x=1493682572; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=+RHKcvPvZ7Yk8yafFPVNusiADcfDaD8Bl/O+Uuf0zjs=; b=UMd0jgmIeSfF6XnqwuXsKRazeAmV1CRgUvQ//Q11yjDT7a7i/8V4irxm C6MJxsz4hr83+oDkBhRPDp0IKreze3AhB0SKYchvthHcPqOivtSwB0qRS MzpIhteB9s5sKLjdur1/kp4QUz8jM3QnluYjxAk1Bxb3ig3ndzQB8SJDS g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AZAQBcU/VY/40NJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgygrYYELB410kV+VX4IPIQuCHQGDWgKEBD8YAQIBAQEBAQEBayi?= =?us-ascii?q?FFQEBAQECAQEBODQLBQsCAQgOCh4QJwslAgQOBYoPCA6tJoshAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWGUoIIgm2EKREBHIM0gjEFnRsBkmSBf4UwiheUCQEfOH0?= =?us-ascii?q?IYxVEEQGGU3WGbYEhgQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,217,1488844800"; d="scan'208";a="237086218" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Apr 2017 23:49:31 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3HNnVhe027619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:49:31 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com (173.37.102.18) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:49:30 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) by XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com ([173.37.102.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 18:49:30 -0500 From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" To: Sumandra Majee CC: "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76rRuk940BheEi1VVRyZBbr/aHKPsMAgABYEoA= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:49:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <931034D7-3508-4161-987B-102DAE68830D@f5.com> In-Reply-To: <931034D7-3508-4161-987B-102DAE68830D@f5.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.17.229] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6B55E6E8EA2FBD41A2EF875DD6E8DA3F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:49:34 -0000 Agreed, both seems reasonable to me. > On Apr 17, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sumandra Majee wrote: >=20 > Support. >=20 > Quite a bit has already been discussed. My $0.2 > 1) Only SFF decrement TTL > 2) If TTL =3D 0 AFTER decrement, then SFF must drop this packet.=20 >=20 > On 4/12/17, 11:57 AM, "sfc on behalf of Joel M. Halpern" wrote: >=20 > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this=20 > email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a= =20 > TTL field to the NSH header. >=20 > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in suppo= rt=20 > of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. >=20 > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as = a=20 > TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag=20 > bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing=20 > implementations was discussed, and seems workable. >=20 > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: >=20 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on=20 > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough=20 > consensus to deprecate that bit. >=20 > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be teste= d.=20 > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing fo= r=20 > 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed withou= t=20 > any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header wi= ll=20 > be a TTL of 255. >=20 > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are=20 > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are=20 > additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the author= s=20 > reflect Working Group agreement. >=20 > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Mon Apr 17 16:53:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C688124D68 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uCIpzk-9kX1X for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49AAE1293FF for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id j201so6643325oih.2 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=C4BFBsTX1RqcHvfeHNqsl3Ag7TFsFBlKiJhSNgG5qFw=; b=JdBm5SgLtYUObstqBc0SrmSh5kj5KNeBtCy3krCHqJn+wc3CKOHwxpCZiAIpCK48sd rKqHAdGtuUflT1iWeOPkdy17O2TaGXW5ErTB4FQTgEOPrdjNCoDZlV3q3OF4DyLk14g0 nJrI8OKlQKL7F8/lLq45FIpHawPih9fIHQO1XYHOsG3XjOywAXhOvj/doc2xHGZ7lxvb YlZp6CRCsBJuby4BSvPoy27lZ4mRqxE50cpfSAsAYhtxvtFFNuMpV1c+mB8Ev94aCsdE Ioq5CNP1DADAb2J/9fokcmSzmGysohM5Ynj4KKq+CPtESCHTPvEk8MuqH+FPrrFVD5SC jkwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=C4BFBsTX1RqcHvfeHNqsl3Ag7TFsFBlKiJhSNgG5qFw=; b=psp38iGOhY6YbhfKJVMnSoIzfztY071NMpdfgzx6byvmeotUciqE85ewUt+yoWJNJ7 DMbAs5karDABGnjOLqBEbvJaREx7cnLFouF0kBXqCeiaX0H/N7rnMh7E4xRTd+8cOnQj NhTt24OmkydN2qekHZUN8c4eC8mj7Q+s8W8v5x4sSyPW3R6pcW4EwMl7+FezmaBMc1h8 BlZferWEvs37WWtbynU61yKajwy4RC0h/r5Cq1JkcjqIOD1lKs3QvglGGnF3Oslqu9H4 xpQj8I8EflVTOvIlSOL74IJD8VQea8PL1xehoz7qHxYO7RKY1tH00GTkVOFgDy98sCN4 Cuug== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/53LZrZ6HXAxkq/2Oz1H7PWhh3japhEEfHfGoJViQ943gzX4raR y4WmDEQzBlVe1EaAibY0z6jkPRHlkg== X-Received: by 10.157.15.218 with SMTP id m26mr277488otd.210.1492473221697; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.89.225 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <931034D7-3508-4161-987B-102DAE68830D@f5.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:53:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" Cc: Sumandra Majee , "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d6ed037552e054d6580a3 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:53:44 -0000 --001a113d6ed037552e054d6580a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Sumandra, I prefer the wording that states "MUST NOT forward" rather than "MUST drop" as the latter is too restrictive. Regards, Greg On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Paul Quinn (paulq) wrote: > Agreed, both seems reasonable to me. > > > > On Apr 17, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sumandra Majee wrote: > > > > Support. > > > > Quite a bit has already been discussed. My $0.2 > > 1) Only SFF decrement TTL > > 2) If TTL = 0 AFTER decrement, then SFF must drop this packet. > > > > On 4/12/17, 11:57 AM, "sfc on behalf of Joel M. Halpern" < > sfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > > > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this > > email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a > > TTL field to the NSH header. > > > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in > support > > of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as > a > > TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag > > bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing > > implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on > > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough > > consensus to deprecate that bit. > > > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be > tested. > > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing > for > > 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed > without > > any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header > will > > be a TTL of 255. > > > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are > > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are > > additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the > authors > > reflect Working Group agreement. > > > > Thank you, > > Joel (and Jim) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a113d6ed037552e054d6580a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sumandra,
I prefer the wording that states "MU= ST NOT forward" rather than "MUST drop" as the latter is too= restrictive.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:= 49 PM, Paul Quinn (paulq) <paulq@cisco.com> wrote:
Agreed, both seems reasonable to me.


> On Apr 17, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com> wro= te:
>
> Support.
>
> Quite a bit has already been discussed. My=C2=A0 $0.2
> 1) Only SFF decrement TTL
> 2) If TTL =3D 0 AFTER decrement, then SFF must drop this packet.
>
> On 4/12/17, 11:57 AM, "sfc on behalf of Joel M. Halpern" <= ;sfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf= of jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrot= e:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This was brought up on the list, and there was useful dis= cussion.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The chairs neglected to close off the discussion.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH = draft, this
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 email serves to report our conclusion about the discussio= n of adding a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL field to the NSH header.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough conse= nsus in support
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of changing the NSH header to include a TTL.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and= use them as a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL.=C2=A0 And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them = as reserved flag
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bits.=C2=A0 The backwards compatibility for migration of = existing
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 implementations was discussed, and seems workable.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian F= arrel:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|Ver|O|R|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Proto=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0|
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must = be zero on
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separat= e rough
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 consensus to deprecate that bit.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field sh= ould be tested.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The agreement observed on the list is to decrement= before testing for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be pro= cessed without
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 any special case coding.=C2=A0 The default for originatin= g an NSH header will
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be a TTL of 255.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this= , as we are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 trying to get the document completed.=C2=A0 Also speak up= if there are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 additional clarifications that we should have, to make su= re the authors
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reflect Working Group agreement.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thank you,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel (and Jim)
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf= o/sfc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--001a113d6ed037552e054d6580a3-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 17:24:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBBD1243F3 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=f5.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNsx0fyLei8C for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail13.f5.com (mail13.f5.com [104.219.104.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C2351293F9 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=f5.com; i=@f5.com; q=dns/txt; s=f5; t=1492475037; x=1524011037; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=GhpMwglSnlPFC7EOj0HnMVZpDI6vxrkRPKjYe3Vz/7s=; b=W5IV743xe0wkyuVobrFjs78YxS0NmN5b/cwnnFDTScXz+xF/beUP/f6o EFNwGiIrWBbDdevoO9GL+xLK3YLBsZTy2qwnFOs5r5vL7K0k1/EXK/kwD Zh3BNEa+GPiE/RqZakZ0JcxGu1FAhvynn3hDtAktZJsTQK5YfoYexD7GI hv8rYVOiyKMjaqFjdyJAto64SOox/AgH4EGrvZoy2jIdCiuScRm10o4M6 KPYEApRGP8OA9eXWDG0VgLWpKHspyBrZD6GIcz4ygFudqngQNPWBdYLLF 4Q2Arm/QzAJb0QHobe8XSagwnF6+KteNVCv0ONAVZSuHcCCAAXk4QOR8n A==; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5800,7501,8501"; a="6549335" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,217,1488873600"; d="scan'208,217";a="6549335" Received: from sv5ccpems03.olympus.f5net.com (HELO owa.f5.com) ([172.23.209.14]) by mail.f5net.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Apr 2017 17:23:54 -0700 Received: from SV5CCPEMS01.olympus.F5Net.com (172.23.209.12) by SV5CCPEMS03.olympus.F5Net.com (172.23.209.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.1.845.34; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:23:52 -0700 Received: from SV5CCPEMS01.olympus.F5Net.com ([fe80::8cea:a209:8eb7:c2ab]) by SV5CCPEMS01.olympus.F5Net.com ([fe80::8cea:a209:8eb7:c2ab%19]) with mapi id 15.01.0845.034; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 17:23:52 -0700 From: Sumandra Majee To: Greg Mirsky CC: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" , "Joel M. Halpern" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76m0gVsNn4M3EmZhmiAQOfACaHJ6vIAgADNbACAAAErgP//kxf3 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:23:52 +0000 Message-ID: <6FABF890-7417-45F5-AC62-2C4F2BA70C35@F5.com> References: <931034D7-3508-4161-987B-102DAE68830D@f5.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6FABF890741745F5AC622C4F2BA70C35F5com_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:23:59 -0000 --_000_6FABF890741745F5AC622C4F2BA70C35F5com_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agree Sent from my iPhone On Apr 17, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Greg Mirsky > wrote: Hi Sumandra, I prefer the wording that states "MUST NOT forward" rather than "MUST drop"= as the latter is too restrictive. Regards, Greg On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Paul Quinn (paulq) > wrote: Agreed, both seems reasonable to me. > On Apr 17, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sumandra Majee > wrote: > > Support. > > Quite a bit has already been discussed. My $0.2 > 1) Only SFF decrement TTL > 2) If TTL =3D 0 AFTER decrement, then SFF must drop this packet. > > On 4/12/17, 11:57 AM, "sfc on behalf of Joel M. Halpern" on behalf of jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > > This was brought up on the list, and there was useful discussion. > The chairs neglected to close off the discussion. > While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH draft, this > email serves to report our conclusion about the discussion of adding a > TTL field to the NSH header. > > While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough consensus in suppo= rt > of changing the NSH header to include a TTL. > > The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and use them as = a > TTL. And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them as reserved flag > bits. The backwards compatibility for migration of existing > implementations was discussed, and seems workable. > > The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian Farrel: > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Proto | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must be zero on > transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separate rough > consensus to deprecate that bit. > > There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field should be teste= d. > The agreement observed on the list is to decrement before testing fo= r > 0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be processed withou= t > any special case coding. The default for originating an NSH header wi= ll > be a TTL of 255. > > Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this, as we are > trying to get the document completed. Also speak up if there are > additional clarifications that we should have, to make sure the author= s > reflect Working Group agreement. > > Thank you, > Joel (and Jim) > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc _______________________________________________ sfc mailing list sfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc --_000_6FABF890741745F5AC622C4F2BA70C35F5com_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agree

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Sumandra,
I prefer the wording that states "MUST NOT forward" rather t= han "MUST drop" as the latter is too restrictive.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Paul Quinn (pau= lq) <paulq@cisco.com> wrote:
Agreed, both seems reasonable to me.


> On Apr 17, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com> wrote:
>
> Support.
>
> Quite a bit has already been discussed. My  $0.2
> 1) Only SFF decrement TTL
> 2) If TTL =3D 0 AFTER decrement, then SFF must drop this packet.
>
> On 4/12/17, 11:57 AM, "sfc on behalf of Joel M. Halpern" <= ;sfc-bounces@ietf.org on behalf= of jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: >
>    This was brought up on the list, and there was useful dis= cussion.
>    The chairs neglected to close off the discussion.
>    While Jim is collecting all the action items for the NSH = draft, this
>    email serves to report our conclusion about the discussio= n of adding a
>    TTL field to the NSH header.
>
>    While not everyone likes the answer, there is rough conse= nsus in support
>    of changing the NSH header to include a TTL.
>
>    The specific change is to take 6 bits from the flags, and= use them as a
>    TTL.  And take 4 bits from the MD-Type and use them = as reserved flag
>    bits.  The backwards compatibility for migration of = existing
>    implementations was discussed, and seems workable.
>
>    The resulting packet format is, as diagrammed by Adrian F= arrel:
>
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= ;-+-+
>       |Ver|O|R|    TTL    |&nb= sp;  Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type|     Proto  &nb= sp;  |
>       +-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= ;-+-+
>
>    I have marked what was the C bit as R for reserved (must = be zero on
>    transmission, ignored on reception), as we have a separat= e rough
>    consensus to deprecate that bit.
>
>    There was some discussion of exactly how the TTL field sh= ould be tested.
>      The agreement observed on the list is to decrement= before testing for
>    0, thus allowing an NSH packet initiated with 0 to be pro= cessed without
>    any special case coding.  The default for originatin= g an NSH header will
>    be a TTL of 255.
>
>    Please speak up promptly if folks see a problem with this= , as we are
>    trying to get the document completed.  Also speak up= if there are
>    additional clarifications that we should have, to make su= re the authors
>    reflect Working Group agreement.
>
>    Thank you,
>    Joel (and Jim)
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    sfc mailing list
>    sfc@ietf.org
>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--_000_6FABF890741745F5AC622C4F2BA70C35F5com_-- From nobody Tue Apr 18 00:53:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0791317D6 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:53:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JLvEekR-qe2k for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62F2C1317AF for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2017 00:53:49 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-42bff700000058cf-09-58f57fadd883 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1B.EA.22735.DAF75F85; Tue, 18 Apr 2017 04:53:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Tue, 18 Apr 2017 03:53:43 -0400 From: Eric Gray To: "Joel M. Halpern" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , 'Greg Mirsky' , "'Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)'" CC: 'Dave Dolson' , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL Thread-Index: AQHSs76rW97cm8iSuU2Ao8PQ7QU5d6HCX1eAgAAC2YCAAAf8gIAAB/oAgAAISICAAAIzgIAASFcAgAAoAoCAArLwgIAADR+AgAUZTmA= Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 07:53:42 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF64B6165F9@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <24e547f7-a9f8-f188-817e-dbd1b610e027@joelhalpern.com> <4D0EE38F-A435-4B7D-90A2-1BB80A4AF1C2@nokia.com> <068801d2b562$2dac3a50$8904aef0$@olddog.co.uk> <50f74156-0448-0fa3-3c8a-41ec1a0237a6@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <50f74156-0448-0fa3-3c8a-41ec1a0237a6@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprCIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO6G+q8RBq938lv86LnBbHFDzGLr sofsFt+mPWW1+HjqDZPFkwdb2R3YPHbOusvusWTJTyaPc1O+M3rcvXWJyWPF5pWMHl83b2cN YIvisklJzcksSy3St0vgynjYJViwqaTixv27bA2MWwq7GDk5JARMJGbcW8PexcjFISSwgVHi y7KfjBDOckaJLVOPs4BUsQloSBy7sxYsISJwhlFi1s117CAJZgF3iWez7rOB2MICWhJTP59i BbFFBLQlJt1aygRhl0kse7+EGcRmEVCVuP1sC1A9BwevgK/E3aeqEMs2sUo86PvMCFLDKeAs caxtB9h8RgExie+n1jBB7BKXuPVkPhPE2QISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmErSuzrn84OMp9ZQFNi /S59iFZFiSndD8FG8goISpyc+YRlAqPoLCRTZyF0zELSMQtJxwJGllWMHKXFBTm56UaGmxiB cXVMgs1xB+PeXs9DjAIcjEo8vAqTvkQIsSaWFVfmHmKU4GBWEuHdsO9rhBBvSmJlVWpRfnxR aU5q8SFGaQ4WJXHed+UXIoQE0hNLUrNTUwtSi2CyTBycUg2MZW9zTvxeEfnxtFT3NPPMjo3T Z9+6O9vpwYaV/2LMH+wK3KBmtoMx8Y5WkWnXR5WeR4vPy7qmJV9o2GFlt6SWY8a6abFfxPKE f0bPX6gU/YOvWCHmyYerukvnP6xS8rpurXjkjppQxc7LFi+EJc45rlu16LSrTcCl7VueuNZ8 68+pzvntuPfPBCWW4oxEQy3mouJEAHsNH8OnAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Loop prevention via TTL X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service 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([2607:fb90:2700:f6fb:d482:6d93:8e0e:ed94]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x21sm11616533pfa.71.2017.04.20.10.21.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-165DF1D2-2690-41CA-A62E-1E919927CACF Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Sami Boutros X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14D27) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:21:06 -0700 Cc: "luay.jalil@verizon.com" , BESS , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <49EF93F5-4278-40CC-B5B8-276BF3038DF8@one.verizon.com> To: "UTTARO, JAMES" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] [bess] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:21:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail-165DF1D2-2690-41CA-A62E-1E919927CACF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support . Thanks, Sami > On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:31 AM, UTTARO, JAMES wrote: >=20 > Support > =20 > Jim Uttaro > =20 > From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of luay.jalil@verizon.co= m > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:49 AM > To: BESS > Cc: sfc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-cont= rol-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure > =20 > Support > =20 > =20 > Luay > =20 > From: sfc on behalf of Martin Vigoureux > Reply-To: BESS > Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 1:04 PM > To: BESS > Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" > Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-= plane adoption following the IPR disclosure > =20 > WG > =20 > Given the IPR disclosed [1] against > draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for > comment specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how > draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS. > =20 > This call for comment is open until the 5th of May > =20 > Thanks > M&T > =20 > [1] https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.iet= f.org_ipr_2980_&d=3DDwIFAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r= =3D7yfE7g9ZjpRzGkNuVTidj5c7H2bMIhCLfUwl8WcELSY&m=3DqN2VxBfuDQTHb9spUcOb6U-0Q= hNArhH4-TqX_aTjyaw&s=3D4VuflmQibSX6JGcRHsfv4SgtIIMuNUzVFEdMMccItP8&e=3D > =20 > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailma= n_listinfo_sfc&d=3DDwIFAg&c=3DudBTRvFvXC5Dhqg7UHpJlPps3mZ3LRxpb6__0PomBTQ&r=3D= 7yfE7g9ZjpRzGkNuVTidj5c7H2bMIhCLfUwl8WcELSY&m=3DqN2VxBfuDQTHb9spUcOb6U-0QhNA= rhH4-TqX_aTjyaw&s=3Du3C3H2GPfolNL2O1q7-SoUfZRNFXGGqXbUo471yGMkU&e=3D > =20 > _______________________________________________ > BESS mailing list > BESS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess --Apple-Mail-165DF1D2-2690-41CA-A62E-1E919927CACF Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Support .

Thanks,

Sami

On Apr 17, 2017, at 5:31 AM, UTTARO, JAMES <ju1738@att.com> wrote:

Support

 

Jim Uttaro

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of luay.jalil@verizon.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:49 AM
To: BESS <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure

 

Support

 

 

Luay

 

From: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>
Reply-To: BESS <bess@ietf.org>
Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 1:04 PM
To: BESS <bess@ietf.org>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] Extra time to reflect on draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane adoption following the IPR disclosure

 

WG

 

Given the IPR disclosed [1] against

draft-mackie-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane, we are starting a call for

comment specifically to let people express a revised opinion on how

draft-ietf-bess-nsh-bgp-control-plane should be pursued in BESS.

 

This call for comment is open until the 5th of May

 

Thanks

M&T

 

 

_______________________________________________

sfc mailing list

 

_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list
BESS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bess
--Apple-Mail-165DF1D2-2690-41CA-A62E-1E919927CACF-- From nobody Sat Apr 22 14:23:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0B91276AF for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:23:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-sLtqt6OIgV for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCE2A1205D3 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:23:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B971D2646 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:23:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1492896225; bh=+6UD4iF5hWTl6I+fjCeCSKU5mjQBLHSXsEBjl5J4kvc=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=aRG6UYT7kOPsF5Mf01XR4xeCB7L8wN9Ky8VnKF07B624ef+IT/w9o46+ByUjYDY5l y0luUf5ggfOG88syBl7eTJpxRjgcD8DHMDgcmim1GiKzGhV9/AOzCoT7qRxQTB+JJo 2yn9xzGPegn4BVK4PF1yegI9BaSDoji56yAHwc6M= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [88.128.80.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C3B711C0752 for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 14:23:43 -0700 (PDT) To: "sfc@ietf.org" From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:23:41 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Minutes are posted X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:23:47 -0000 My apologies for the delay. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-98-sfc/00/ My thanks to the multiple minute takers who helped us with this (Ignas Bagdonas and Tal Mizrahi on the Etherpad, and John Strassner whose notes helped me fill in soem blanks.) Please let me know if there are significant errors in the minutes. Yours, Joel (and Jim) From nobody Sun Apr 23 23:38:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454B8128B90 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Ehy-L6R5b7B for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1856F128BA2 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id r16so174700514ioi.2 for ; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rE/W+ze8As1d60qDR3NQGjZQd8ni/6RCUYOeXEctCeU=; b=tDEbvvenSk812CbYqAefdciaGvdP6FWdwagn12vv1I1iT4N0glxKeKYc37MH5QoaPA 8V7lFQkrZn1ix50EprE5ARKGLrtr/uZ6esl6bux1GiND0g6zSUe9peSYvweix9YLLGS8 pzmkv6M13BnrO7Z77iz+8sDOy0U+rFZzwQJ5hNe2BEOJSBO50W6+H74Jf38ViJlcTXAI zsilKYYY7fZSd30sW0xc8PLT92iZwGNy1P3sSNfqKeQZdxhWvevrkLe7OY74JmqJN+qT qgA+ASCeX1QeLWTIRUswmQvcvJJ1yQSdnhpC71HKlxV76/ENxNgTLiHUy6jBn/43wMQ2 go7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=rE/W+ze8As1d60qDR3NQGjZQd8ni/6RCUYOeXEctCeU=; b=KiYvS3sk0q036VaorvHA04aAanDynFaE76PkMZ6aBvNE94awLD3knriJ7FaRmSy1Fi zN1kscua0W7KxWiowSXP3AnHRnz4pB16IdII0aPthGsfdjdxqFLRbILRF8oN0fPQfsHq WxkLCdn8xquuNvrl4jhsYDSfi0A3SLn2wKEziQVTJsP5wnNdZrdDDBMTSITqtBbphkoh rsfR12jbIOtsAwSuWWUZxHGUubmKE9WN/qo/g3SHBY1lqeu1LqMgKMZ2t8ryKsXu2Wen lX27ZJavv0vAWP6IzBG0CUTXKgLoE+aCO78Mo/4QTAsCNNKWbxzywdmxaKxa9vfGPMd9 GA4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/606LHQFY2oJ6vr7IZ8Bfvuks0XLU7+k9lTcaefRTTKL/lnqybB ZExNQht5DdO6xTInnuj7vTSnxOPa4w== X-Received: by 10.202.235.196 with SMTP id j187mr12810282oih.167.1493015891362; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.52.118 with HTTP; Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <149301550360.25857.13262494361152306223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <149301550360.25857.13262494361152306223.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 23:38:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: sfc@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cf63ed976ce054de3d96d Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 06:38:15 -0000 --001a113cf63ed976ce054de3d96d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear All, this new draft introduces the Alternate Marking method into SFC environment. In order to realize advantages of the Alternate Marking method, the draft requests allocation of the Mark field in the NSH Base header. Greatly appreciate your reviews, comments, and questions. Regards, Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:31 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00.txt To: Gregory Mirsky , Giuseppe Fioccola < giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it> A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm Revision: 00 Title: Performance Measurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Domain Document date: 2017-04-23 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 7 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm- 00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc- pmamm-00 Abstract: This document describes how the alternate marking method be used as the passive performance measurement method in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --001a113cf63ed976ce054de3d96d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
this new draft introduces the Alternate Mark= ing method into SFC environment. In order to realize advantages of the Alte= rnate Marking method, the draft requests allocation of the Mark field in th= e NSH Base header. Greatly appreciate your reviews, comments, and questions= .

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Sun, Apr= 23, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mirsky= -sfc-pmamm-00.txt
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.i= t>



A new version of I-D, draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Performance Measurement (PM) with = Alternate Marking Method in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Domain
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-04-23
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmam= m-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://too= ls.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes how the alternate marking method be us= ed as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the passive performance measurement method in a Service Functi= on
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Chaining (SFC) domain.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--001a113cf63ed976ce054de3d96d-- From nobody Tue Apr 25 02:53:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35771128D44 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:53:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bDP_icRRnNo for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6BB3129B77 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1F82A0EC2 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:53:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1493113996; bh=EIofzvqrVxSKT8U2uiENG8FCSGvdM2UXBfXJCENMRGQ=; h=Subject:References:To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Ngs0+7L2KeI2QnOztQkZRemaRvLILxPHSEXppz4fHAuGk+AVDKoEebEUnhEW1IHMl iSJ5pzRCYRBmTlBc9FuNJ7MW4+TQhCnlaUH2Tw4uUce+xkC3iNQ+j2QZYpnwHm0Mek N0n/qTqk4daOfBoK9FZOj/p2OYLTlZcEUkwQOSfE= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [195.50.183.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0EAF31C0331 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 02:53:15 -0700 (PDT) References: <149305364986.25767.16646180382405330509@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "sfc@ietf.org" From: Joel Halpern X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <149305364986.25767.16646180382405330509@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 05:53:13 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149305364986.25767.16646180382405330509@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] Call for Adoption: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:53:19 -0000 As per the discussion on the list, the authors have revised the NSH TLV draft to remove TLVs that the WG has agreed to document elsewhere. When the document is adopted, and the revision to the NSH document is made to remove the C bit, the text here will need to be changed to remove the C bit. Such is life as we change things. This email starts a new call for adoption for this draft. Does the working group consider this a good basis for work on documenting a base set of TLVs for use with NSH? This call will last 2 weeks, until the end of the day 9-May-2017. Please speak up either in support or objection. Thank you, Joel -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:07:29 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Network Service Header TLVs Authors : Paul Quinn Uri Elzur Sumandra Majee Filename : draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2017-04-24 Abstract: This draft describes Network Service Header (NSH) MD-Type 2 metadata TLVs that can be used within a service function path. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Tue Apr 25 07:01:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C867129BEC for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.438 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.438 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1dETMCIkdPZU for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5793B129454 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id w12so60388262oiw.3 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Fz2fbXxy9ugvlkxSI0Mjmzj/3DGlvdgpD1v4sK2PY0A=; b=SpKF9RLEDG1NwDiLIkqY6R7Lk2Wb5qiDp7pB6GowUPdlrzAXd33lVA1nq1psBFOULM 76DzxA1o1ckss21KtBBStYe735vEl4xHMcSQ1pZttF605lUZf6bhi8khhAmPnre9jBke TGdWM+9xz6hzZsqTFhUPTzvl7g4GzaTP1bK85irCZRQ53wfrWqaWYWehg1CemgNlRi1B P6tBH7Z9xZCpB4nn0fZYf+Rm2VaDyjKgyG2oL3fhEZREl0Vae8yNbILEbkdi1sdjnXNo mz+7yVl0FPiCYZbvj8+HR0RvEfWaGCB99oKYcbxosvZ1QdCZXqkF4m4t5Mc4h/IouYTd eFLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Fz2fbXxy9ugvlkxSI0Mjmzj/3DGlvdgpD1v4sK2PY0A=; b=LEC6ffz9gE242TTLBX1VnLQiYpWVUas2IHEvWrmHTfPc1rtft2+w9Ce0aiYUiN0POL NL3iFiyKcyZtCiW/OiRzY3fSL53V6iJMcbiQSQKWrmc69baw+sBroO98o8FIJLw/rhdk dhdDxcmrATTrbWp+Oa30IrvezVXt2p8ADkSXm16Gq4BplaEdlSDXhIO4u0yr4lDWrUA7 ILZtOkVYuhOTEzpz1YmYtWf4SltdfvQUH7xWkSSDBFzD9lrmxpyNBNeU2qtpzyBKUuuy /zeS7GiAOwmAcS/7hgYh6fOnUtUIeBfNnYKA0CmpCTuCTcn+B6GOGq7Wa7rLjkWqqWn+ TgUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7qPZRy+o0hj+WSFgrrUoHTHi90Fs+xeeKatPKo+pD9aTAEU19S xPR5BmVpooSGOzPwAmGR5MgJiqBJww== X-Received: by 10.202.88.214 with SMTP id m205mr5171748oib.159.1493128889960; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.201 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 07:01:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <149305364986.25767.16646180382405330509@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:01:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Joel Halpern Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d5ca0170e67054dfe29ea Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for Adoption: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:01:33 -0000 --001a113d5ca0170e67054dfe29ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joel, I support WG adoption, it=E2=80=99s been updated to reflect the previous di= scussion and it=E2=80=99s time to put it officially under WG management. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Joel Halpern wrote: > As per the discussion on the list, the authors have revised the NSH TLV > draft to remove TLVs that the WG has agreed to document elsewhere. > > When the document is adopted, and the revision to the NSH document is mad= e > to remove the C bit, the text here will need to be changed to remove the = C > bit. Such is life as we change things. > > This email starts a new call for adoption for this draft. Does the > working group consider this a good basis for work on documenting a base s= et > of TLVs for use with NSH? > > This call will last 2 weeks, until the end of the day 9-May-2017. > > Please speak up either in support or objection. > > Thank you, > Joel > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: I-D Action: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt > Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:07:29 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : Network Service Header TLVs > Authors : Paul Quinn > Uri Elzur > Sumandra Majee > Filename : draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2017-04-24 > > Abstract: > This draft describes Network Service Header (NSH) MD-Type 2 metadata > TLVs that can be used within a service function path. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a113d5ca0170e67054dfe29ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joel,

I support WG adoption, it=E2=80= =99s been updated to reflect the previous discussion and it=E2=80=99s time = to put it officially under WG management.

Cheers,<= /div>
Andy


On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Joel Halpern <j= mh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
= As per the discussion on the list, the authors have revised the NSH TLV dra= ft to remove TLVs that the WG has agreed to document elsewhere.

When the document is adopted, and the revision to the NSH document is made = to remove the C bit, the text here will need to be changed to remove the C = bit.=C2=A0 Such is life as we change things.

This email starts a new call for adoption for this draft.=C2=A0 Does the wo= rking group consider this a good basis for work on documenting a base set o= f TLVs for use with NSH?

This call will last 2 weeks, until the end of the day 9-May-2017.

Please speak up either in support or objection.

Thank you,
Joel


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:07:29 -0700
From: interne= t-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce= @ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Network Service Header TLVs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Paul= Quinn
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Uri Elzur
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sumandra Majee
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-qui= nn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 8
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-04-24

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft describes Network Service Header (NSH) MD-Type 2 me= tadata
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TLVs that can be used within a service function path.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-s= fc-nsh-tlv-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-ann= ounce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= br> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--001a113d5ca0170e67054dfe29ea-- From nobody Tue Apr 25 08:54:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E622131580 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_OBFUSCATE_05_10=0.26, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2E2uopsBezfo for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F08081315AF for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id w64so26848879wma.0 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=VfL1Vg0bVpOeaM2cWQLva3uSY57Xo2EcoihSZqK2mYM=; b=GrxYG2TLkQU+y9l/AaOr4vfr8DewkuevKrv3H4tUFaf+Gt+ru93ruSXraUklt+Dw19 i0nO3pubSMwS0AnYDb1tAzmvZMOJpZYdzESNOs/ZIJmmv2U9DyifI5SMkkbFMHY/aq67 WmbYL+0paPEeUONaEyTAt5uhCzBy6d4GeST/zijvDc9LlAoHWBFBSMRXHMdVbN+srN34 iKLKzpVAQKdy3b6zwavrT75CrtVgRopBvIxGwV4X8+5yN1I121FAwBqTbu34xOxFQHbS u0XHt/IS0cYTeu/wrny/8fRe3F8H4ZpRfCbdaO+/4/67fspz4o1wRv/lnzrP2E2Goqjn s8dQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VfL1Vg0bVpOeaM2cWQLva3uSY57Xo2EcoihSZqK2mYM=; b=T9F2FkWpCe+SdTcdwgYa1f3B3zapg0ft+q7yt8qAAnAnqdqrFWfLX8y0NRoR02vQQw dwILfV4hmJFNtYIojIYcTxYOdpkO04vS5NTxXIT5kAk63STIl+e9HYVS5pAqTyH3jb7v 7jJgmxqbBK8bzhq585WwnC8YJpYIfH7JT4bINPDCOVPisqNyHRfekGZc4OILsHXfCFeT zR9iNGm/00T/nP0bn7Te3I1oWXB0tq1bJJUAv7EZEC4zw+90JNcRT25Gy7vdpt+/AUAt jYUE4rUW9HmgmY3C68g6YsdBYsTADyDdNsx/tcEWqule5RP8ijItzR6WCXnbrCbPpizs IMGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/43LYFlr4AY1HHfZG43L8XnTtXtiYUStNNX1lU3bV1BgRubwKKn +HO3uR8Ze9l6FTgYtz5qy9+k8dUotw== X-Received: by 10.28.18.135 with SMTP id 129mr2364122wms.54.1493135671548; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.134.52 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: References: <149305364986.25767.16646180382405330509@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:54:31 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joel Halpern Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1145ba144de23a054dffbd01 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] Call for Adoption: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:54:35 -0000 --001a1145ba144de23a054dffbd01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I checked Rev. 03. I am OK with the content. I support the adoption. Regards, Behcet On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:53 AM, Joel Halpern wrote: > As per the discussion on the list, the authors have revised the NSH TLV > draft to remove TLVs that the WG has agreed to document elsewhere. > > When the document is adopted, and the revision to the NSH document is made > to remove the C bit, the text here will need to be changed to remove the C > bit. Such is life as we change things. > > This email starts a new call for adoption for this draft. Does the > working group consider this a good basis for work on documenting a base set > of TLVs for use with NSH? > > This call will last 2 weeks, until the end of the day 9-May-2017. > > Please speak up either in support or objection. > > Thank you, > Joel > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: I-D Action: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt > Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:07:29 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > > Title : Network Service Header TLVs > Authors : Paul Quinn > Uri Elzur > Sumandra Majee > Filename : draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2017-04-24 > > Abstract: > This draft describes Network Service Header (NSH) MD-Type 2 metadata > TLVs that can be used within a service function path. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --001a1145ba144de23a054dffbd01 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I checked Rev. 03. I am OK with the content.
I support= the adoption.

Regards,

B= ehcet

= On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 4:53 AM, Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com&g= t; wrote:
As per the discussion on= the list, the authors have revised the NSH TLV draft to remove TLVs that t= he WG has agreed to document elsewhere.

When the document is adopted, and the revision to the NSH document is made = to remove the C bit, the text here will need to be changed to remove the C = bit.=C2=A0 Such is life as we change things.

This email starts a new call for adoption for this draft.=C2=A0 Does the wo= rking group consider this a good basis for work on documenting a base set o= f TLVs for use with NSH?

This call will last 2 weeks, until the end of the day 9-May-2017.

Please speak up either in support or objection.

Thank you,
Joel


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 10:07:29 -0700
From: interne= t-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce= @ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Network Service Header TLVs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Paul= Quinn
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Uri Elzur
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sumandra Majee
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-qui= nn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 8
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-04-24

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This draft describes Network Service Header (NSH) MD-Type 2 me= tadata
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TLVs that can be used within a service function path.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-quinn-s= fc-nsh-tlv-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/html/draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-quinn-sfc-nsh-tlv-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-ann= ounce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= br> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--001a1145ba144de23a054dffbd01-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 11:57:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF475129AF2 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:57:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSiUGD5qWbus for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D139129552 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DFQ01683; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:54:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.38) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:54:15 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.4.233]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:54:10 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxg== Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:54:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.149.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD5F8ESJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.59023E58.01B0, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 65024b3fe46eceafc8f88476578ee036 Archived-At: Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:57:42 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD5F8ESJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD5F8ESJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL &n= bsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD5F8ESJCEML701CHMchina_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 12:06:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64E36129AA1 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:06:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2eHCH-GTBnmG for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6693B129C09 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:02:45 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAUZJg Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:02:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BA327wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:06:48 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BA327wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that is improved wording. I support it. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BA327wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think that is improv= ed wording. I support it.

 

From: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL &n= bsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BA327wtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 12:24:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B081296B3 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:24:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbHquerkpvlF for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub021-ca-5.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-5.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.70]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDAB8129B66 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-5.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:20:36 -0700 From: Ron Parker To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAqFVg Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:20:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.205.79.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B83991FDCMBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:24:01 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B83991FDCMBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 an= d reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a precedi= ng SFF misbehaved, wouldn't it? Why are we insistent that the test for 0 = happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I suspect that t= his has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed it, but if the l= anguage were simplified to say an SFF that receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 sha= ll not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF = instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to= another SFF. An exact wording along these lines might be something like: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before forwarding= to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the received TTL va= lue is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise have been forwarde= d to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions= if the SFF terminates the Service Function Chain. If the TTL value is gr= eater than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anot= her SFF. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B83991FDCMBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I had to really think = about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 and reaching 63. &n= bsp; This would only occur in an error scenario where a preceding SFF misbe= haved, wouldn’t it?   Why are we insistent that the test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. = ;    I suspect that this has been already discussed and I ap= ologize if I missed it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF t= hat receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF instances, still)= .   Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.

 

An exact wording along= these lines might be something like:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test th= e TTL before forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions if the SFF = terminates the Service Function Chain.   If the TTL value is grea= ter than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.   The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.

 

 

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3= 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL&n= bsp;   |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol= |

    +-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B83991FDCMBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:06:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85893129646 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:05:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VZ0-QD2suxVV for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D558A129AA7 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:02:36 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Ron Parker , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAqFVgAAHGe0A= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:02:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BB593wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:05:58 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BB593wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron, Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after decrementin= g provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior header format= . This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were previously= "reserved". -Dave From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 an= d reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a precedi= ng SFF misbehaved, wouldn't it? Why are we insistent that the test for 0 = happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I suspect that t= his has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed it, but if the l= anguage were simplified to say an SFF that receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 sha= ll not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF = instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to= another SFF. An exact wording along these lines might be something like: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before forwarding= to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the received TTL va= lue is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise have been forwarde= d to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions= if the SFF terminates the Service Function Chain. If the TTL value is gr= eater than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anot= her SFF. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BB593wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ron,=

Decrementing from zero= to reach 63, and checking for zero after decrementing provides a degree of= backwards compatibility with the prior header format.

This permits packets o= n the wire to have 0 in the bits that were previously “reserved”= ;.

 

-Dave

 

 

From: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM
To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

I had to really think = about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 and reaching 63. &n= bsp; This would only occur in an error scenario where a preceding SFF misbe= haved, wouldn’t it?   Why are we insistent that the test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. = ;    I suspect that this has been already discussed and I ap= ologize if I missed it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF t= hat receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF instances, still)= .   Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.

 

An exact wording along= these lines might be something like:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test th= e TTL before forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions if the SFF = terminates the Service Function Chain.   If the TTL value is grea= ter than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.   The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.

 

 

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL &n= bsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BB593wtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:08:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 894D7127201 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:08:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2v0TyKd7jzR for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub021-ca-7.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-7.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93D7D129C13 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-7.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.109]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:05:06 -0700 From: Ron Parker To: Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAqFVgAAHGe0AAABDMYA== Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.205.79.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839920ADMBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:08:55 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839920ADMBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward compa= tibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet that arri= ves with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is the termin= ating SFF of the path? Ron From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM To: Ron Parker ; James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: TTL field within the NSH base header Ron, Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after decrementin= g provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior header format= . This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were previously= "reserved". -Dave From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 an= d reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a precedi= ng SFF misbehaved, wouldn't it? Why are we insistent that the test for 0 = happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I suspect that t= his has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed it, but if the l= anguage were simplified to say an SFF that receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 sha= ll not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF = instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to= another SFF. An exact wording along these lines might be something like: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before forwarding= to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the received TTL va= lue is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise have been forwarde= d to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions= if the SFF terminates the Service Function Chain. If the TTL value is gr= eater than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anot= her SFF. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM To: sfc@ietf.org Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839920ADMBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Dave. &nb= sp;  Do you think it is possible to combine that backward compatibilit= y with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet that arrives wit= h TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is the terminating SFF of the path?

 

   Ron<= /o:p>

 

 

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co= m]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM
To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; James N Guic= hard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Ron,=

Decrementing from zero= to reach 63, and checking for zero after decrementing provides a degree of= backwards compatibility with the prior header format.

This permits packets o= n the wire to have 0 in the bits that were previously “reserved”= ;.

 

-Dave

 

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Parker
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM
To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

I had to really think = about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 and reaching 63. &n= bsp; This would only occur in an error scenario where a preceding SFF misbe= haved, wouldn’t it?   Why are we insistent that the test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. = ;    I suspect that this has been already discussed and I ap= ologize if I missed it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF t= hat receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to engage its local SF instances, still)= .   Otherwise, it must decrement by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.

 

An exact wording along= these lines might be something like:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test th= e TTL before forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to attached service functions if the SFF = terminates the Service Function Chain.   If the TTL value is grea= ter than 1, the SFF must decrement the TTL by 1 before forwarding to anothe= r SFF.   The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.

 

 

 

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3= 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL&n= bsp;   |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol= |

    +-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839920ADMBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:25:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41EE21293F9 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dCZnmPouc4ao for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x235.google.com (mail-io0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 324EB1294F9 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x235.google.com with SMTP id k87so34816431ioi.0 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+n295CmD8kR63PWcDzyLNOYYB6KVp75EJyCB9wy/NZw=; b=PMnAQCGldFqC7LZ8Mdp/JJ16mvWEQawGCfQe6L0aJuELwB0fMhrKju+t+Msq/QK+2s GmpxUB7uRfTg6ftTPsfca80i9XbfJsy0U6BNGKMJXUMec+6yrZs6k6qT1KH63klz3TgK VzqQTTcfD2vdCIUybS+OPTCyUT/4VgOj4PqyNwlAQz0UeThaHmcZr0lED++nsW9sWpra 1Vk4OmbZIR2B2FqHkU+hMWNIDsb4JyhLiKk5OZFUs2/+s8FZZ70V9aQ/RbNBxTbskU36 ruYOcTI60Rra9WQzZPbWIHEtel1mHlrz/m6KW0mUMdV9vvnYuu6v0R0NB6qXpXuA4POs sZnA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+n295CmD8kR63PWcDzyLNOYYB6KVp75EJyCB9wy/NZw=; b=eTv+02nEp3CGERn0lkMBAAL3Z/cVitd6Iyw+iBHYGBp1GW8bAfWvjTepF8bvoBFp4i UWgk33Z6m0D47TQGlghGfHHBJxqVctpdcvHpWIlTTZZh/3Okkroi7XsmbUcz6G8zWXwF y2JZILIIEJS1Rv9IHh93lzpkC6fkAxnhN2SwvOLZQWqdhK5zIzJRHQqo3TzsMvuWu9o8 zDNrDyzpwl/ZXUPScvgBb2AwutK8+xq5YTorgfzQ4jRUhxHv3HpIdmB8zsxe1GWW4niY DI+zwGTPTLf4kqrOwIW+rfd3t+R++8n/JZ0I/DasrXM1YFFGXhnFh/VX5fjpZE9VY7hf SlUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5qD0eE3VNufak5OmVcBxy/JXjTVuptjwDLs2eW8fpXs2vp31bU BrIsvDah/0d537wZIF8iJV/RFtx0Aw== X-Received: by 10.157.55.131 with SMTP id x3mr2038332otb.60.1493324446380; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:20:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.132 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:20:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:20:26 -0400 Message-ID: To: James N Guichard Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c000de2293a52054e2bb1ff Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:25:02 -0000 --94eb2c000de2293a52054e2bb1ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Jim, The replacement text says: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. There are now actually five reserved bits. Cheers, Andy On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard < james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote: > Dear WG: > > > > Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears > to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base > header. We would like to propose the following changes: > > > > Section 3.2: > > Update figure 2 as follows: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > Add the following text after figure 2: > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value > of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 > shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH > packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for > 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. > > > > Section 3.4: > > Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > Section 3.5: > > Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > Section 12.2.1: > > Current text is as follows: > > > > There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) > > Bits 4-9 - Reserved > > > > Replace entire text as follows: > > > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Reserved > > Bits 16-19 - Reserved > > > > Section 12.2.3: > > Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. > > > > Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* > 8-bit values. > > > > *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any > changes to the suggested text).* > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > --94eb2c000de2293a52054e2bb1ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,

The replacement text says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. N= ew bits

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].<= /u>


There are now actually five reserve= d bits.

Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Ap= r 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei= .com> wrote:

Dear WG:

=C2=A0

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

=C2=A0

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0

Add the following text after figure 2:=

=C2=A0

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

=C2=A0

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

=C2=A0

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

=C2=A0

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.=C2=A0 New bits

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bits 0-1 - Version

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 4-9 - Reserved

=C2=A0

Replace entire text as follows:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 0-1 - Version

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Reserved

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 16-19 - Reserved

=C2=A0

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.=

=C2=A0

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

=C2=A0

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

=C2=A0

Thanks,

=C2=A0

Jim & Joel

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


--94eb2c000de2293a52054e2bb1ff-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:40:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD26A12948A for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.748 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.748 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FwM8PTe42bxW for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x232.google.com (mail-ua0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F28CC1292AE for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x232.google.com with SMTP id f10so26711169uaa.2 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WGGDlQGy3lF2TcQ3uLlirWrnjW7GFOcObT2QlfNj+Pg=; b=TK9E3ksapeOXqbI4anLVng+7+eP5oMggfLz8rInuF6TAMnwkqv6SC7DFAXB2XIdHUi MeiXqcCJoACmUGQtDEE1sdtyDl60hc8xkgc+3ux34K5IetNphxDzKqI4dDaHrSH0wZoC DBbKKnl0R4UFwa5tVbf0t493UhIxPZy1v65F3gT0D6ZBhklXBlNhlp68zm6h/ecO5XJ4 HBV+fS3J584OsvAw1xbEWQD25KwyBi+dhuhrlt6tH7Yy4ZLemcQ/u/+WZDBQTwxehJf1 4hY+/uu2SMI6DD+xi1+Eh5reHgvrmCiNZ8WE5wqQmZ0PVb9axPb7+Aaq5v3jPO86mZg5 kSuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WGGDlQGy3lF2TcQ3uLlirWrnjW7GFOcObT2QlfNj+Pg=; b=mzaOKmLjfWIMVI+bb+PByXHEpZljV1FEGRLTg8Z2qn8YLd1VI8swnUCJqT/3UiJ8wi 9SC6mcTPp6D0ah/C9kcapfenkmqTgYepezkVlob3vYhct2N4UkPnH5e6GessmKQIxDcH 1vszSlq5h2uGtHR/QctsTpJF/eGGgtBQo9h/PfSQp04O98gUhp+aFlfn6Oek9UGhADLv FXgaw/NQkwkp3P3q0/bJ+UkvsM0YdzQTEf6JOPVR5e95at7aATlbqaNYQwuqDe2qVCDa 4FakWoVrfXPn1K1aBnfoTgeuKjXnGfL7NMl+p1th8Aa3jZO4bmbxpgywzTlShHwGr9P+ 2BgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6GFzlCzNz6h0rvZXpaxeKlirjGIQl448Gv80xOthShB9K74U3l QriKIf3mFuQqBxkv0YzVReLJekoRAQ== X-Received: by 10.176.74.81 with SMTP id r17mr4409325uae.39.1493325454100; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jim Guichard Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:37:23 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" , James N Guichard Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045f8fd439cd94054e2bedcb Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:40:32 -0000 --f403045f8fd439cd94054e2bedcb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits that were reserved and are now allocated.. On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis wrote: > Jim, > > The replacement text says: > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > There are now actually five reserved bits. > > Cheers, > Andy > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard < > james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear WG: >> >> >> >> >> >> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH >> base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >> >> >> >> >> >> Section 3.2: >> >> >> Update figure 2 as follows: >> >> >> >> >> >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> >> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >> >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> >> >> >> >> Add the following text after figure 2: >> >> >> >> >> >> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value >> of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 >> shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH >> packet is a TTL value >> >> of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, >> if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. >> >> >> >> >> >> Section 3.4: >> >> >> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >> base header. >> >> >> >> >> >> Section 3.5: >> >> >> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >> base header. >> >> >> >> >> >> Section 12.2.1: >> >> >> Current text is as follows: >> >> >> >> >> >> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits >> >> >> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >> >> >> >> >> >> Bits 0-1 - Version >> >> >> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >> >> >> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >> >> >> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >> >> >> >> >> >> Replace entire text as follows: >> >> >> >> >> >> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >> >> >> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >> >> >> >> >> >> Bits 0-1 - Version >> >> >> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >> >> >> Bit 3 - Reserved >> >> >> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >> >> >> >> >> >> Section 12.2.3: >> >> >> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >> >> >> >> >> >> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >> 8-bit values. >> >> >> >> >> >> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >> changes to the suggested text).* >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> >> >> Jim & Joel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> sfc mailing list >> >> >> sfc@ietf.org >> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > --f403045f8fd439cd94054e2bedcb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits that were reserved and are now= allocated..

On Thu, Apr 27, = 2017 at 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis <ag= malis@gmail.com> wrote:
Jim,

The replacement text says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bi= ts

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].


There are now actually five r= eserved bits.

Cheers,
Andy

On T= hu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote:





=










Dear WG:


=C2=A0



Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appe= ars to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base= header. We would like to propose the following changes:

<= br>

=C2=A0



Section 3.2:



Upda= te figure 2 as follows:



= =C2=A0



=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A00 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |



=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



=C2=A0



Add the following text after figure 2:

<= br>

=C2=A0



TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by= a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1= from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an N= SH packet is a TTL value

of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before te= sting for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be f= orwarded.



=C2=A0<= /u>



Section 3.4:


Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header form= at as per section 3.2 base header.



=C2=A0



Section 3.5:=



Update figure 5 to reflect= the new base header format as per section 3.2 base header.

=C2=A0



Section 12.2.1:



Current text is as follows:



=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th= ere are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header.=C2=A0 New bits=



=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via= Standards Action [RFC5226].



=C2=A0



=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bits = 0-1 - Version



=C2=A0=C2=A0 = Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)



=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 4-9 - Reserved



=C2=A0



Repla= ce entire text as follows:



= =C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 There a= re eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits


=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action= [RFC5226].



=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 0-1 - Version<= /u>



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bi= t)



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Res= erved



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 16-= 19 - Reserved



=C2=A0=



Section 12.2.3:

=

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values= .



=C2=A0

<= br>

Update text for this section and table 1 to r= eflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.



=C2=A0



Pl= ease review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any change= s to the suggested text).



=C2=A0



Thanks,



=C2=A0


=

Jim & Joel



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0









_______________________________________________


sfc= mailing list


= sfc@ietf.org


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/sfc






________= _______________________________________

sfc mailing list

sfc@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--f403045f8fd439cd94054e2bedcb-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:40:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF1F120227 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNrthE3hhWYl for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F39BC129B9B for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7AE10201F6; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1493325462; bh=Q9iOgh5LTSMxWKIKvajY2VC5AO7+WDvYHQXZyvUwGAk=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Hiau+1OyoYH5AwEh+broS+lBKS/dsi1gsPwpWrNhfAK1E+rqqMXkMzGFA7MKpVJmZ gXz18c5Lj07JSo7KAOOiPMi2fVVAeUEx0KJ44JHJrZiXtJMXs95+XmhedC/tIuYoNj zOlw/G8SQdAk7PwZfDLDe522241Urrc93tTu80xk= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [82.209.169.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E1B33258318; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:37:40 -0700 (PDT) To: Ron Parker , Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" References: From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:37:37 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:40:54 -0000 That alternative was discussed. It also works. However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht einterim adn on the list. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: > Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward > compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet > that arrives with TTL=1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is > the terminating SFF of the path? > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM > *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard > ; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Ron, > > Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after > decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior > header format. > > This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were > previously reserved. > > > > -Dave > > > > > > *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM > *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 > and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a > preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldnt it? Why are we insistent that the > test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I > suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed > it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an > NSH with TTL=1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to > engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by > 1 before forwarding to another SFF. > > > > An exact wording along these lines might be something like: > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before > forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the > received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise > have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to > attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function > Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the > TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originating > an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. > > > > > > > > *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM > *To:* sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Dear WG: > > > > Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it > appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the > NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: > > > > Section 3.2: > > Update figure 2 as follows: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > Add the following text after figure 2: > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a > value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 > from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an > NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before > testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT > be forwarded. > > > > Section 3.4: > > Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > Section 3.5: > > Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > Section 12.2.1: > > Current text is as follows: > > > > There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) > > Bits 4-9 - Reserved > > > > Replace entire text as follows: > > > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Reserved > > Bits 16-19 - Reserved > > > > Section 12.2.3: > > Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. > > > > Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* > 8-bit values. > > > > *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any > changes to the suggested text).* > > * * > > Thanks, > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:50:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C601292AE for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id co3PfC-uafUm for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub021-ca-8.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-8.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.56.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A91ED129412 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-8.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:47:08 -0700 From: Ron Parker To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAqFVgAAHGe0AAABDMYAAP4JOAAA5eOYA= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:47:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.205.79.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:50:32 -0000 Thanks for the explanation, Joel. -----Original Message----- From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:38 PM To: Ron Parker ; Dave Dolson ; James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header That alternative was discussed. It also works. However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old system = (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the TTL,= then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an initial= classifier that generates a TTL of 0. It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht einterim a= dn on the list. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: > Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward > compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet=20 > that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF=20 > is the terminating SFF of the path? > > > > Ron > > > > > > *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM > *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard=20 > ; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Ron, > > Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after=20 > decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the=20 > prior header format. > > This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were=20 > previously "reserved". > > > > -Dave > > > > > > *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM > *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 > and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a > preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn't it? Why are we insistent that the > test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I > suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I=20 > missed it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that=20 > receives an NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., a= llowing it to > engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by > 1 before forwarding to another SFF. > > > > An exact wording along these lines might be something like: > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before=20 > forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the=20 > received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would=20 > otherwise have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such=20 > packets to attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service F= unction > Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the > TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originating > an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. > > > > > > > > *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N=20 > Guichard > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM > *To:* sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Dear WG: > > > > Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it=20 > appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the=20 > NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: > > > > Section 3.2: > > Update figure 2 as follows: > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > Add the following text after figure 2: > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a=20 > value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of=20 > 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for=20 > originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL=20 > occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH=20 > packet MUST NOT be forwarded. > > > > Section 3.4: > > Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section=20 > 3.2 base header. > > > > Section 3.5: > > Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section=20 > 3.2 base header. > > > > Section 12.2.1: > > Current text is as follows: > > > > There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New=20 > bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) > > Bits 4-9 - Reserved > > > > Replace entire text as follows: > > > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > Bit 3 - Reserved > > Bits 16-19 - Reserved > > > > Section 12.2.3: > > Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. > > > > Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not*=20 > 8-bit values. > > > > *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or=20 > any changes to the suggested text).* > > * * > > Thanks, > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Thu Apr 27 14:00:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D08129C49 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:00:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id esg605jpuRs7 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x231.google.com (mail-it0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03055129BBE for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g66so25053552ite.1 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:56:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RgO6GjCwfYvVYjBU4LlLzSqEmojc1b0IeppzCvIVG8E=; b=GsPWbueegqHTpyYMG5O9f+5FgtsJFk3X7AGD6uxOKAUzUMnrxpahLfQeyAz+TN/L33 1/UiLwGQ9gAgtt4dFBCKTMK+RfRfD1OZx94njeYmgtq/Ynr1x4RHaCpRlSr1ZdpDaatI 9kvSOILPANgcqj60tbfV4pDSFJCB7wNw+2RZoQvF0TyxuGt9Qdbjc4IBHQB0evuCqSDN jOnOPQAH4cJ/xBdaI4SoZtZSZoxLR9f6+3O/bDlGUhMDTzni93+SWTBg56T6d2Ljdbqy 3mIMyN5iJjq8OjmYFPpMh3SSG7ERXIVc0LZR5Xv8vsragWl0fFRUtfrLMEHlSimHN/yV vHMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RgO6GjCwfYvVYjBU4LlLzSqEmojc1b0IeppzCvIVG8E=; b=CgnBhZMd/EMrYM8L6p8AM16s+4ov1GVSxjKoSteyaVfP8GLc4o27XqAK51EOBhofuM eX52F0jhFIbK4/LvoymbWp3620AAmjDa2GCx5EeJkOXsal1PR0m+NNR5d/n+uXKOP15r mQhf77+ZloIp7NQhqcU8d4G0udFoVdlyjGPhkkPNEt6fpI4T7Na54rBrhCLfJr+HBLP1 NnhvZurnl2xjfMs9X2CDqTQSP9xTa4JlAxMgINmhJN2ySk2CVS5/70IFFQ9Z06yGRrpM LUgAD6BKXcpJIBxpXyh0AEXZfhrDnE23Abr0ByytH+HF4oVdsT4yyvYCHm8nBbk5BIGb Oqig== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4qqD8+KZgiEEHaAStAX4PrJwDQO8G8dgYbXDxZruh1D4IWbYNk p2RUz25PuEkrsG7HXLhSjZsypxvLyQ== X-Received: by 10.202.81.196 with SMTP id f187mr3063031oib.126.1493326574307; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:56:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.132 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:55:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:55:53 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jim Guichard Cc: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113b013efed0fe054e2c2f22 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:00:26 -0000 --001a113b013efed0fe054e2c2f22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, In that case, you need to remove the word =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D from t= he replacement text. Cheers, Andy On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Jim Guichard wrote: > Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits that were reserved and are now > allocated.. > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis wrote= : > >> Jim, >> >> The replacement text says: >> >> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >> >> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >> >> There are now actually five reserved bits. >> >> Cheers, >> Andy >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard < >> james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the = NSH >>> base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of = 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating a= n >>> NSH packet is a TTL value >>> >>> of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, >>> if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bit= s >>> >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> sfc mailing list >>> >>> >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> sfc mailing list >> >> sfc@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >> --001a113b013efed0fe054e2c2f22 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,

In that case, you need to remove t= he word =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D from the replacement text.
Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:37 PM= , Jim Guichard <jguichard1966@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits th= at were reserved and are now allocated..

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at= 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
Jim,

The replacement text says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Hea= der. New bits

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226= ].


There are now actu= ally five reserved bits.

Cheers,
Andy


On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@= huawei.com> wrote:


=













= Dear WG:



=C2=A0



Having reviewed all of the email discu= ssion on the mailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus t= o add a TTL field to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the foll= owing changes:



=C2= =A0



Section 3.2:

=

Update figure 2 as follows:

=C2=A0



=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1



= =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+



=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 Leng= th=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |



=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



=C2=A0



Add= the following text after figure 2:



=C2=A0



TTL: Servic= e plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value of 1 for all= NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result = in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL va= lue

of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After de= crement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.



=C2=A0



Section 3.4:



Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2= base header.



=C2=A0=



Section 3.5:


Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header = format as per section 3.2 base header.



=C2=A0



Section = 12.2.1:



Current text is as = follows:



=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are ten bits at the= beginning of the NSH Base Header.=C2=A0 New bits



=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].



=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bits 0-1 - Version=



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)<= /u>



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Critical = TLV (C bit)



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bi= ts 4-9 - Reserved



= =C2=A0



Replace entire text as foll= ows:



=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are eight reserved bits= in the NSH Base Header. New bits



=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].<= /u>



=C2=A0



=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 0-1 - Version



=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)


=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Reserved

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 16-19 - Reserved



=C2=A0



Section 12.2.3:



Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.


=C2=A0



Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *n= ot* 8-bit values.



= =C2=A0



Please review carefully = and indicate support for these changes (or any changes to the suggested tex= t).



=C2=A0=



Thanks,


=C2=A0



Jim & Joel



<= /u>=C2=A0



=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0



=C2=A0



=C2=A0










________= _______________________________________


sfc mailing list

sfc@ietf.org=


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc<= /a>






___________________= ____________________________

sfc mailing list

sfc@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


--001a113b013efed0fe054e2c2f22-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 14:02:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF7D129481 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JBQ_3R2f_Efu for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:02:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D6B4129C07 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DLW69917; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:58:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com (10.208.112.39) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:58:08 +0100 Received: from SJCEML701-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.8]) by SJCEML703-CHM.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.195]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:57:56 -0700 From: James N Guichard To: "Andrew G. Malis" , Jim Guichard CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgARxo4AAACXi4AAAKVngAAOoPmw Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:57:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.149.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD60FESJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.59025B63.003F, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: e2af2f492f1f756e316d4c37c225cb2c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD60FESJCEML701CHMchina_-- From nobody Thu Apr 27 14:02:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA8E7129BAC for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pUcVkVJ8ca_0 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com 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Malis" , Jim Guichard CC: "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgARxo4AAACXi4AAAKVngAAOmEvQ Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:58:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.149.48] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD610ASJCEML701CHMchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.59025B76.0169, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.8, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2dd44c1b41feabef88ba909b94eff50f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:02:35 -0000 --_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3DD610ASJCEML701CHMchina_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 U29ycnkgZnJvbSA4IHRvIDUgLi4gZ2Vleg0KDQpGcm9tOiBBbmRyZXcgRy4gTWFsaXMgW21haWx0 bzphZ21hbGlzQGdtYWlsLmNvbV0NClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAyNywgMjAxNyA0OjU2 IFBNDQpUbzogSmltIEd1aWNoYXJkIDxqZ3VpY2hhcmQxOTY2QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCkNjOiBKYW1l cyBOIEd1aWNoYXJkIDxqYW1lcy5uLmd1aWNoYXJkQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+OyBzZmNAaWV0Zi5vcmcN ClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbc2ZjXSBUVEwgZmllbGQgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBOU0ggYmFzZSBoZWFkZXIN Cg0KSmltLA0KDQpJbiB0aGF0IGNhc2UsIHlvdSBuZWVkIHRvIHJlbW92ZSB0aGUgd29yZCDigJxy ZXNlcnZlZOKAnSBmcm9tIHRoZSByZXBsYWNlbWVudCB0ZXh0Lg0KDQpDaGVlcnMsDQpBbmR5DQoN Cg0KT24gVGh1LCBBcHIgMjcsIDIwMTcgYXQgNDozNyBQTSwgSmltIEd1aWNoYXJkIDxqZ3VpY2hh cmQxOTY2QGdtYWlsLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86amd1aWNoYXJkMTk2NkBnbWFpbC5jb20+PiB3cm90ZToN ClllcyBidXQgSSBhbHNvIGNvdW50ZWQgdGhlIG90aGVyIDMgYml0cyB0aGF0IHdlcmUgcmVzZXJ2 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Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:55:36 GMT To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Ron Parker , Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> From: Joe Clarke Organization: Cisco Message-ID: <3e94276c-88ae-8a09-cf4b-7538748a3513@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:55:34 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:58:28 -0000 On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > That alternative was discussed. It also works. > However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old > system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. > If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the > TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an > initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. > > It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht > einterim adn on the list. Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from the beginning. While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a year? In two? Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat explicitness. Joe > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >> that arrives with TTL=1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is >> the terminating SFF of the path? >> >> >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >> *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard >> ; sfc@ietf.org >> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >> >> >> >> Ron, >> >> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior >> header format. >> >> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >> previously reserved. >> >> >> >> -Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >> >> >> >> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 >> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldnt it? Why are we insistent that the >> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed >> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >> NSH with TTL=1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to >> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by >> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >> >> >> >> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >> >> >> >> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originating >> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >> >> >> >> Dear WG: >> >> >> >> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >> >> >> >> Section 3.2: >> >> Update figure 2 as follows: >> >> >> >> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> >> >> >> Add the following text after figure 2: >> >> >> >> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 >> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an >> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT >> be forwarded. >> >> >> >> Section 3.4: >> >> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >> base header. >> >> >> >> Section 3.5: >> >> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >> base header. >> >> >> >> Section 12.2.1: >> >> Current text is as follows: >> >> >> >> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits >> >> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >> >> >> >> Bits 0-1 - Version >> >> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >> >> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >> >> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >> >> >> >> Replace entire text as follows: >> >> >> >> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >> >> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >> >> >> >> Bits 0-1 - Version >> >> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >> >> Bit 3 - Reserved >> >> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >> >> >> >> Section 12.2.3: >> >> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >> >> >> >> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >> 8-bit values. >> >> >> >> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >> changes to the suggested text).* >> >> * * >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Jim & Joel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> > > _______________________________________________ > sfc mailing list > sfc@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc From nobody Fri Apr 28 01:31:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F42129541 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:31:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8sH4708QXQE for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6F2B1292AE for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992523A0C4B; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:28:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1493368103; bh=5PRTCDh3ACjM4IuV+wTMOx6peKMEu8Av/Xj/KFgE1Gs=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=EnMYeFWH5uUfxMSBIdG+fWGS/YEjC5aa4xVIws/g4ChNUARntJnnVPQxKVr+So6cg TQRSsoU7+AHp2aLzAoXSfeD92YxE+GUiRjRKVIjPw7iyx5a9pQf5F9BcGsrrTgj+Ao FYQi5LscOdBnd0k66PsTV6MACsIkqcqrgyyNVEnY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (sessfw99-sesbfw99-93.ericsson.net [192.176.1.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2C361C0367; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 01:28:21 -0700 (PDT) To: Joe Clarke , Ron Parker , Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> <3e94276c-88ae-8a09-cf4b-7538748a3513@cisco.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 04:28:20 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3e94276c-88ae-8a09-cf4b-7538748a3513@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:31:16 -0000 There are really two separate issues. First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough consensus Jim and I saw. Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >> >> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list. > > Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I > wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from > the beginning. > > While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a > year? In two? > > Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat > explicitness. > > Joe > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>> that arrives with TTL=1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is >>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>> *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard >>> ; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior >>> header format. >>> >>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>> previously reserved. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 >>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldnt it? Why are we insistent that the >>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed >>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>> NSH with TTL=1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to >>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by >>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>> >>> >>> >>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originating >>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an >>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT >>> be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Fri Apr 28 04:54:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2EA12783A for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 04:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXe8-6u_gIUt for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 04:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F370128792 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 04:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:50:01 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , Ron Parker , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAAqFVgAAHGe0AAABDMYAAJl0CAAAK47QAAFhlgAP//9UrS Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:49:59 +0000 Message-ID: <20170428114959.5161041.15785.10536@sandvine.com> References: <0e91eb10-2259-0056-98ee-2de3d2e25ddf@joelhalpern.com> <3e94276c-88ae-8a09-cf4b-7538748a3513@cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:54:06 -0000 For the record, I want backwards compatibility. And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason. As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64. David Dolson =FD Original Message From: Joel M. Halpern Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header There are really two separate issues. First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough consensus Jim and I saw. Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >> >> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list. > > Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I > wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from > the beginning. > > While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a > year? In two? > > Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat > explicitness. > > Joe > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF = is >>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>> *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard >>> ; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prio= r >>> header format. >>> >>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>> previously =93reserved=94. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from = 0 >>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it? Why are we insistent that th= e >>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I misse= d >>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it= to >>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement b= y >>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>> >>> >>> >>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originatin= g >>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guicha= rd >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of = 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating a= n >>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NO= T >>> be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bit= s >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > From nobody Fri Apr 28 05:34:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4969A12956A for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:34:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7q8Hp_BllLQ4 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E0F912E852 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:31:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055EE3A28FE; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1493382670; bh=xqk6Tgexcrn7dzJNnwJPtBiJTkpwv4Q/5dFYVPD5IKQ=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:From; b=pCjTYAUQvFLSWVCRswMIsNO/kjBz/8tqU2chdd1yYVVuiJEAs80ShCPWQTgruMed8 sWWfmb9M9PNwoJ4E7KfVHJCqgt0ZmKHsvS4CGESDpxA7dZUh/DsxK7ln68ou99QnjP IUzvh8a45wgUuKcVv7l2TF5sV8CfT+6oyeA+j130= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from [10.148.60.114] (sessfw99-sesbfw99-82.ericsson.net [192.176.1.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63FF71C0367; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:31:02 +0200 Message-ID: Importance: normal From: "jmh.direct" To: Dave Dolson , "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , Ron Parker , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.samsung.android.email_945123548959380" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:34:34 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_945123548959380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SXQgc2VlbXMgeW91IGFyZSBzYXlpbmcgeW91IGFncmVlIHdpdGggdGhlIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBiZWhh dmlvci4KQ2FuIHlvdSBsaXZlIHdpdGggdGhlIHRleHQgYXMgaXQgaXM/CllvdXJzLEpvZWwKCgpT ZW50IHZpYSB0aGUgU2Ftc3VuZyBHYWxheHkgU8KuIDYsIGFuIEFUJlQgNEcgTFRFIHNtYXJ0cGhv bmUKLS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLUZyb206IERhdmUgRG9sc29uIDxk ZG9sc29uQHNhbmR2aW5lLmNvbT4gRGF0ZTogNC8yOC8xNyAgMTM6NDkgIChHTVQrMDE6MDApIFRv 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localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F059129AF2 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4mQcsRtBw1di for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70305128DE5 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 05:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:39:10 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , Ron Parker , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZE Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:39:09 +0000 Message-ID: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2017042812390851610411218710550sandvinecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:42:21 -0000 --_000_2017042812390851610411218710550sandvinecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, yes, I think the proposed text is OK. If it would help others, we could be more explicit about the reason. David Dolson =FD From: jmh.direct Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James N Guichard;= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header It seems you are saying you agree with the described behavior. Can you live with the text as it is? Yours, Joel Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dave Dolson Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT+01:00) To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke = , Ron Parker , James N Guichard , sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header For the record, I want backwards compatibility. And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason. As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64. David Dolson =FD Original Message From: Joel M. Halpern Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header There are really two separate issues. First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough consensus Jim and I saw. Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >> >> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list. > > Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I > wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from > the beginning. > > While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a > year? In two? > > Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat > explicitness. > > Joe > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF = is >>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>> *To:* Ron Parker ; James N Guichard >>> ; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prio= r >>> header format. >>> >>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>> previously =93reserved=94. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from = 0 >>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it? Why are we insistent that th= e >>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I misse= d >>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it= to >>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement b= y >>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>> >>> >>> >>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originatin= g >>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guicha= rd >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of = 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating a= n >>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NO= T >>> be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bit= s >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --_000_2017042812390851610411218710550sandvinecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
David Dolson
=FD
From: jmh.direct
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM
To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James= N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

It seems you are saying you agree with the described behavior.

Can you live with the text as it is?

Yours,
Joel



Sent via the Samsu= ng Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT+01:00)
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Joe Clark= e <jclarke@cisco.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com= >, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

For the record, I want backwards compatibility.
And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason.

As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64.

David Dolson
=FD
  Original Message
From: Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM
To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header


There are really two separate issues.
First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want?
     The discussion started with a proposal along the l= ines Ron
suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided.  We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a
close.  Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility.  So, yes= ,
we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough
consensus Jim and I saw.

Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear.  It is
always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything
at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior
with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.)  W= e
need to be somewhere in between.  We may not be in the right place.
Yours,
Joel

On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:
> On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>> That alternative was discussed.  It also works.
>> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an ol= d
>> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from th= e TTL.
>> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing= the
>> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work wi= th an
>> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0.
>>
>> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list.
>
> Thanks, Joel.  I know it was discussed, but reading the final tex= t, I
> wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from<= br> > the beginning.
>
> While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in = a
> year?  In two?
>
> Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat
> explicitness.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote:
>>> Thanks, Dave.    Do you think it is possible to= combine that backward
>>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for = a packet
>>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether= the SFF is
>>> the terminating SFF of the path?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM
>>> *To:* Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; Jame= s N Guichard
>>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero afte= r
>>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with= the prior
>>> header format.
>>>
>>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that we= re
>>> previously =93reserved=94.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Pa= rker
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM
>>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org&g= t;
>>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing b= y 1 from 0
>>> and reaching 63.   This would only occur in an error= scenario where a
>>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it?   Why are w= e insistent that the
>>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this probl= em.     I
>>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize i= f I missed
>>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that rec= eives an
>>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., al= lowing it to
>>> engage its local SF instances, still).   Otherwise, = it must decrement by
>>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL befo= re
>>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the
>>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise
>>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packet= s to
>>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service F= unction
>>> Chain.   If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF= must decrement the
>>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF.   The def= ault for originating
>>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James= N Guichard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
>>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear WG:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing lis= t it
>>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fiel= d to the
>>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following change= s:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.2:
>>>
>>> Update figure 2 as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 = 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>     |Ver|O|R|    TTL &= nbsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Add the following text after figure 2:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL= by a
>>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a = value of 1
>>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for orig= inating an
>>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur bef= ore
>>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packe= t MUST NOT
>>> be forwarded.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.4:
>>>
>>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.5:
>>>
>>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.1:
>>>
>>> Current text is as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are ten bits at the beginning of the N= SH Base Header.  New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)
>>>
>>>    Bits 4-9 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Replace entire text as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Bas= e Header. New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Reserved
>>>
>>>    Bits 16-19 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.3:
>>>
>>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit valu= es *not*
>>> 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these change= s (or any
>>> changes to the suggested text).*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
--_000_2017042812390851610411218710550sandvinecom_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 06:39:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D770127909 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:39:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bkJGV85Posw9 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta134.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC240128BBB for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.70]) by opfednr25.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 2330118051D; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:35:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.46]) by opfednr06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 00F9F1A006D; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:35:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORM3D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::e4bd:f641:7b12:33fc%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:35:48 +0200 From: To: James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAl9Xdg Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:35:48 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9OPEXCNORMADcorp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:39:12 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9OPEXCNORMADcorp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, all, I have the following comments : =B7 Change "TTL" to "SFF Hop Limit (SHL)" because this field is not= about a time to live but about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed. =B7 I don't understand what is meant by "testing". =B7 I suggest to make this change to cover the following points: o SHL should be configurable by the control plane. o Packets can be forwarded to SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0 for th= e terminating SFF. o I don't think it is a good idea to include "Decrementing by a value of= 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63" because this will lead to a br= oken mechanism. OLD: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. NEW: SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indicates the maximum SFF hops for a service chain. Th= e initial SHL value SHOULD be configurable via the control plane; the confi= gured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial= value is explicitly provided, the default initial SHL value 63 MUST be use= d. Each SFF involved in forwarding an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value b= y 1. The packet MUST NOT be forwarded to a next hop SFF if SHL is decrement= ed to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to = attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0. Thank you. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9OPEXCNORMADcorp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim, all,

 

I have the fo= llowing comments :

=B7    &n= bsp;    Chang= e “TTL” to “SFF Hop Limit (SHL)” because this field= is not about a time to live but about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed.

=B7    &n= bsp;    I don= ’t understand what is meant by “testing”.

=B7    &n= bsp;    I sug= gest to make this change to cover the following points:

o&n= bsp;   SHL s= hould be configurable by the control plane.

o&n= bsp;   Packe= ts can be forwarded to SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0 for the terminat= ing SFF.

o&n= bsp;   I don= ’t think it is a good idea to include “Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63” because th= is will lead to a broken mechanism.

 

OLD:

TTL: Service plane time-t= o-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets i= t receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL v= alue of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement= , if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.<= /p>

 

NEW:

SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indi= cates the maximum SFF hops for a service chain. The initial SHL value SHOUL= D be configurable via the control plane; the configured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial value is exp= licitly provided, the default initial SHL value 63 MUST be used. Each SFF i= nvolved in forwarding an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value by 1. The pack= et MUST NOT be forwarded to a next hop SFF if SHL is decremented to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain= MUST forward the packet to attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0.

 <= /p>

Thank you.

 <= /p>

Cheers,=

Med

 

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the emai= l discussion on the mailing list it appears to the chairs that we have cons= ensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base header. We would like to propose t= he following changes:

 

Section 3.2:<= /p>

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     = 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<= /span>

    +-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+

    |Ver|O= |R|    TTL    |   Length  |R|R= |R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

    +-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+

 

Add the following text after fi= gure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live= . An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it rece= ives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63= . The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for = 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.<= o:p>

 

Section 3.4:<= /p>

Update figure 4 to reflect the = new base header format as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:<= /p>

Update figure 5 to reflect the = new base header format as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits= at the beginning of the NSH Base Header.  New bits<= /p>

   are assigned via S= tandards Action [RFC5226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version=

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit= )

   Bit 3 - Critical T= LV (C bit)

   Bits 4-9 - Reserve= d

 

Replace entire text as follows:=

 

   There are eight re= served bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via S= tandards Action [RFC5226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version=

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit= )

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reser= ved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as= 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section an= d table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and = indicate support for these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).<= o:p>

 =

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9OPEXCNORMADcorp_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 07:10:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F2C1292D3 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:10:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9JXt9hfXjoy1 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:10:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hub021-ca-2.exch021.serverdata.net (hub021-ca-2.exch021.serverdata.net [64.78.22.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CC8C128D44 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.78]) by HUB021-CA-2.exch021.domain.local ([10.254.4.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:07:06 -0700 From: Ron Parker To: Dave Dolson , jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , "Joe Clarke" , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZEgAAMRtA= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:07:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [50.205.79.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839926F2MBX021W3CA2exch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:10:34 -0000 --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839926F2MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks all for the discussion, and I now appreciate the backward compatibil= ity aspect. But, if we take a more direct approach to describing the beha= vior, we simply need to state what happens when SFF receives NSH with TTL= =3D0, TTL=3D1, TTL >1. I might offer the following=85 TTL: Service plane time-to-live. Treatment of certain received TTL values b= y an SFF is dependent on the SFF=92s position within the sequence of SFF=92= s for the given Service Function Path. A received TTL value of 0 received= by the first SFF in an SFP shall be treated as if it had a value of 64, fo= r backward compatibility with classifiers that don=92t set TTL. A receiv= ed TTL value of 0 at a non-first SFF shall result in discard of the packet.= A received TTL value of 1 received by the last SFF in an SFP is valid an= d shall result in appropriate forwarding to attached service functions. A= received TTL value of 1 received by a non-last SFF in an SFP shall result = in discard of the packet. For all scenarios where propagation to a subseq= uent SFF are valid, the transmitted TTL shall be a decrement of 1 from the = received TTL, except in the special case of first-SFF receiving TTL 0 which= shall result in a transmitted TTL of 63. Classifiers that support TTL sh= all adopt 63 as the default initial TTL. From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:39 AM To: jmh.direct ; Joel M. Halpern ; Joe Clarke ; Ron Parker ; James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Sorry, yes, I think the proposed text is OK. If it would help others, we could be more explicit about the reason. David Dolson =FD From: jmh.direct Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James N Guichard;= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header It seems you are saying you agree with the described behavior. Can you live with the text as it is? Yours, Joel Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dave Dolson > Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT+01:00) To: "Joel M. Halpern" >, Jo= e Clarke >, Ron Parker >, James N = Guichard >,= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header For the record, I want backwards compatibility. And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason. As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64. David Dolson =FD Original Message From: Joel M. Halpern Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header There are really two separate issues. First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough consensus Jim and I saw. Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >> >> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list. > > Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I > wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from > the beginning. > > While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a > year? In two? > > Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat > explicitness. > > Joe > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF = is >>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>> *To:* Ron Parker >; James N Guichard >>> >; sfc@= ietf.org >>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prio= r >>> header format. >>> >>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>> previously =93reserved=94. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from = 0 >>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it? Why are we insistent that th= e >>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I misse= d >>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it= to >>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement b= y >>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>> >>> >>> >>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originatin= g >>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guicha= rd >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of = 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating a= n >>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NO= T >>> be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bit= s >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839926F2MBX021W3CA2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks all for the discussion, and I now appreciate = the backward compatibility aspect.   But, if we take a more direc= t approach to describing the behavior, we simply need to state what happens= when SFF receives NSH with TTL=3D0, TTL=3D1, TTL >1.   I might offer the following=85

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. Treatment of certai= n received TTL values by an SFF is dependent on the SFF=92s position within= the sequence of SFF=92s for the given Service Function Path.   A= received TTL value of 0 received by the first SFF in an SFP shall be treated as if it had a value of 64, for backward compat= ibility with classifiers that don=92t set TTL.    A received= TTL value of 0 at a non-first SFF shall result in discard of the packet.&n= bsp;  A received TTL value of 1 received by the last SFF in an SFP is valid and shall result in appropriate forwarding to attached = service functions.   A received TTL value of 1 received by a non-= last SFF in an SFP shall result in discard of the packet.   For a= ll scenarios where propagation to a subsequent SFF are valid, the transmitted TTL shall be a decrement of 1 from the received TTL= , except in the special case of first-SFF receiving TTL 0 which shall resul= t in a transmitted TTL of 63.   Classifiers that support TTL shal= l adopt 63 as the default initial TTL.

 

 

&nbs= p;

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sa= ndvine.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:39 AM
To: jmh.direct <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>; Joel M. Halpern &= lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com>; Ron Parke= r <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.gui= chard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Sorry, yes, I think the pro= posed text is OK.

If it would help others, we= could be more explicit about the reason.

 

David Dolson
=FD

From: jmh.direct

Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM

To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James N Gu= ichard; sfc@ietf.org=

Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header=

 

It seems you are saying you agree with the described= behavior.

 

Can you live with the text as it is?

 

Yours,

Joel

 

 

 

Sent = via the Samsung Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

 

-------- Original messag= e --------

From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>

Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT= +01:00)

To: "Joel M. Halper= n" <jmh@joelhalpern.c= om>, Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com&g= t;, Ron Parker <R= on_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, James N= Guichard <james.n= .guichard@huawei.com>, sfc@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL f= ield within the NSH base header

 =

For the record, I want backwards compatibility.
And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason.

As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64.

David Dolson
=FD
  Original Message
From: Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM
To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header


There are really two separate issues.
First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want?
     The discussion started with a proposal along the l= ines Ron
suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided.  We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a
close.  Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility.  So, yes= ,
we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough
consensus Jim and I saw.

Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear.  It is
always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything
at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior
with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.)  W= e
need to be somewhere in between.  We may not be in the right place.
Yours,
Joel

On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:
> On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>> That alternative was discussed.  It also works.
>> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an ol= d
>> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from th= e TTL.
>> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing= the
>> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work wi= th an
>> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0.
>>
>> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list.
>
> Thanks, Joel.  I know it was discussed, but reading the final tex= t, I
> wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from<= br> > the beginning.
>
> While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in = a
> year?  In two?
>
> Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat
> explicitness.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote:
>>> Thanks, Dave.    Do you think it is possible to= combine that backward
>>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for = a packet
>>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether= the SFF is
>>> the terminating SFF of the path?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Dave Dolson [m= ailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM
>>> *To:* Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; James N Guichard
>>> <james.n.gui= chard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero afte= r
>>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with= the prior
>>> header format.
>>>
>>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that we= re
>>> previously =93reserved=94.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc= -bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM
>>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ie= tf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org><= br> >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing b= y 1 from 0
>>> and reaching 63.   This would only occur in an error= scenario where a
>>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it?   Why are w= e insistent that the
>>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this probl= em.     I
>>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize i= f I missed
>>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that rec= eives an
>>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., al= lowing it to
>>> engage its local SF instances, still).   Otherwise, = it must decrement by
>>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL befo= re
>>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the
>>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise
>>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packet= s to
>>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service F= unction
>>> Chain.   If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF= must decrement the
>>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF.   The def= ault for originating
>>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sf= c-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
>>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear WG:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing lis= t it
>>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fiel= d to the
>>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following change= s:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.2:
>>>
>>> Update figure 2 as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 = 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>     |Ver|O|R|    TTL &= nbsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Add the following text after figure 2:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL= by a
>>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a = value of 1
>>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for orig= inating an
>>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur bef= ore
>>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packe= t MUST NOT
>>> be forwarded.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.4:
>>>
>>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.5:
>>>
>>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.1:
>>>
>>> Current text is as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are ten bits at the beginning of the N= SH Base Header.  New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)
>>>
>>>    Bits 4-9 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Replace entire text as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Bas= e Header. New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Reserved
>>>
>>>    Bits 16-19 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.3:
>>>
>>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit valu= es *not*
>>> 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these change= s (or any
>>> changes to the suggested text).*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>> https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--_000_CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839926F2MBX021W3CA2exch_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 07:16:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAD8129B3F for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:16:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GuQ8qfG-1Sut for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com (mail-it0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D8EC129B01 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id x188so38780661itb.0 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:13:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IPDOu+Lhifk8wjUi8vzIFLcg55XC3hx9u/nWSWPXSWs=; b=IpHNCkWyuYKLNHJL8nK4yjAE6d392kOS12G5wi6CSFChfV2/iiMY2ozVZN8ndn/bpW AJyK6OdHJByHRpfAIcNRYo4gSwKDGqwDw5r8T+nNiLcm+OIVCvYisOEGkEq8z/2dEBz5 DRj4KwRpo01HiFnYUpNNDuQsTYp8/tISrpSTvHeps4Io0jhXW4T9TsC1vr0xPWmOUwQ7 1ZgvSqO1uRDBBttOa+v1wlfGuTARPz3hVqwVdc573Y+3O0fqcNneiMybimYlmJrr0pMU S2SWQPDLgjEwNZtPSDn7P1wZPOhYELMm3EirxTqRF7+q09jOuyYASgzQG6zbnujO3E8t 1SxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IPDOu+Lhifk8wjUi8vzIFLcg55XC3hx9u/nWSWPXSWs=; b=FzWoouqE1mRAjhuwYw7ul39itzyTWNzf48UT0Gkga/mBCXMH6txskvHdAKoP+mTCUp PIss9+QpMVupmd2Xc77Qba7kVnRAKO4hrJM5YtYHzlK4aTtAY1X8V0lCHCasFdyLoIGv k88ZNsIW/KIHVWXdG8MNZ8AiPuCusNxsZG1taoXrRv5O6PQlh9hRBEXp0o447VDWBgzq 3WrxrtsNWJdBDzBUPJCeoI+JXMtg6sW450PR6nhpI/hK0vlqLUQLOKms7EPsfgIGmyng OtUPMbg3VjT5VnSLL9b8GInK36dCZl+/M79Q0xUQHNBwl7xaN4sJ0FiJBCg3v41+0+KA YDmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4xKFGYGTo/5fuVnRilBiyneIlYggXoXNldlbbJyef6XEcJcJcq 1KwLZjcW9kt8HKMdsPQB6AwHhF0Y6w== X-Received: by 10.202.81.199 with SMTP id f190mr4534256oib.22.1493388789788; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:13:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.231.132 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:12:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:12:49 -0400 Message-ID: To: James N Guichard Cc: Jim Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d798a53b324054e3aac4b Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:16:02 -0000 --001a113d798a53b324054e3aac4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, This looks good to me. Thanks, Andy On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:58 PM, James N Guichard < james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote: > Sorry from 8 to 5 .. geez > > > > *From:* Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:56 PM > *To:* Jim Guichard > *Cc:* James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Jim, > > > > In that case, you need to remove the word =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D from= the replacement > text. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Jim Guichard > wrote: > > Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits that were reserved and are now > allocated.. > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis wrote= : > > Jim, > > > > The replacement text says: > > > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > There are now actually five reserved bits. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard < > james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear WG: > > > > > > > > Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appear= s > to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base > header. We would like to propose the following changes: > > > > > > > > Section 3.2: > > > > Update figure 2 as follows: > > > > > > > > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | > > > > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > > > > > > > Add the following text after figure 2: > > > > > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value > of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 > shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH > packet is a TTL value > > of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, i= f > the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. > > > > > > > > Section 3.4: > > > > Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > > > > > Section 3.5: > > > > Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 > base header. > > > > > > > > Section 12.2.1: > > > > Current text is as follows: > > > > > > > > There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits > > > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > > > Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) > > > > Bits 4-9 - Reserved > > > > > > > > Replace entire text as follows: > > > > > > > > There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits > > > > are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. > > > > > > > > Bits 0-1 - Version > > > > Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) > > > > Bit 3 - Reserved > > > > Bits 16-19 - Reserved > > > > > > > > Section 12.2.3: > > > > Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. > > > > > > > > Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* > 8-bit values. > > > > > > > > *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any > changes to the suggested text).* > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Jim & Joel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sfc mailing list > > > sfc@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sfc mailing list > > sfc@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > > > --001a113d798a53b324054e3aac4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jim,

This looks good to me.
<= br>
Thanks,
Andy

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:58 PM, James N Guichard = <james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote:

Sorry from 8 to 5 .. geez

=C2=A0

From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:56 PM
To: Jim Guichard <jguichard1966@gmail.com>
Cc: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

=C2=A0

Jim,

=C2=A0

In that case, you need to remove the word =E2=80=9Cr= eserved=E2=80=9D from the replacement text.

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:37 PM, Jim Guichard <jguichard1966@gm= ail.com> wrote:

Yes but I also counted the other 3 bits that were re= served and are now allocated..

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 4:25 PM Andrew G. Malis <= agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:

Jim,

=C2=A0

The replacement text says:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0There a= re eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are ass= igned via Standards Action [RFC5226].

=C2=A0

There are now actually five reserved bits.=

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:54 PM, James N Guichard &l= t;james.n.= guichard@huawei.com> wrote:












=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0<= /p>

Dear WG:

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Section 3.2:

=C2=A0<= /p>

Update figure 2 as follows:

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |Ver|O|R|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TTL=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0=C2=A0 Length=C2=A0 |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Add the following text after figure 2:=

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value

of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if = the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Section 3.4:

=C2=A0<= /p>

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Section 3.5:

=C2=A0<= /p>

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Section 12.2.1:

=C2=A0<= /p>

Current text is as follows:

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.=C2=A0 New bits

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bits 0-1 - Version

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 4-9 - Reserved

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Replace entire text as follows:

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 0-1 - Version

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bit 3 - Reserved

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Bits 16-19 - Reserved

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Section 12.2.3:

=C2=A0<= /p>

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.=

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Thanks,

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

Jim & Joel

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0<= /p>






_______________________________________________


sfc mailing list


sfc@ietf.org


htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


=C2=A0



_______________________________________________

sfc mailing list

sfc@ietf.org

htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

=C2=A0


--001a113d798a53b324054e3aac4b-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 07:21:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B95B12951C for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:21:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fv9Q_dYlI1Oz for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta241.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E56E129C64 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.8]) by opfedar22.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BAB3B605B1; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:17:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.113]) by opfedar06.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7E70580077; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:17:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORM2D.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::7919:5bec:48cc:ccdf%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:17:08 +0200 From: To: Ron Parker , Dave Dolson , jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , "James N Guichard" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZEgAAMRtCAAA29MA== Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:17:07 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422OPEXCNORMADcorp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:21:03 -0000 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1D8AB129484 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:22:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5HlvTv1qDyYV for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84BFF1294A3 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by WTL-EXCHP-3.sandvine.com ([fe80::3c39:d305:d721:f00a%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:18:54 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: Ron Parker , jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , "Joe Clarke" , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZEgAAMRtCAAA3GcA== Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:18:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BCFF4wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:22:56 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BCFF4wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ron, I would not want an SFF to have to know if it is the first that is capable = of decrementing TTL. Also, the backwards-compatibility is also intended to address the situation= with some SFFs not decrementing the TTL. So I think what you propose only complicates matters. Can we instead say, =93TTL coded as 0 (binary 000000) represents 64. Decrem= enting this value of 0 results in 63 (binary 111111)=94. This doesn=92t actually produce any special cases in code, since integer ma= th under-flows properly on all modern processors and hardware adders. -Dave From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:07 AM To: Dave Dolson; jmh.direct; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; James N Guichard;= sfc@ietf.org Subject: RE: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thanks all for the discussion, and I now appreciate the backward compatibil= ity aspect. But, if we take a more direct approach to describing the beha= vior, we simply need to state what happens when SFF receives NSH with TTL= =3D0, TTL=3D1, TTL >1. I might offer the following=85 TTL: Service plane time-to-live. Treatment of certain received TTL values b= y an SFF is dependent on the SFF=92s position within the sequence of SFF=92= s for the given Service Function Path. A received TTL value of 0 received= by the first SFF in an SFP shall be treated as if it had a value of 64, fo= r backward compatibility with classifiers that don=92t set TTL. A receiv= ed TTL value of 0 at a non-first SFF shall result in discard of the packet.= A received TTL value of 1 received by the last SFF in an SFP is valid an= d shall result in appropriate forwarding to attached service functions. A= received TTL value of 1 received by a non-last SFF in an SFP shall result = in discard of the packet. For all scenarios where propagation to a subseq= uent SFF are valid, the transmitted TTL shall be a decrement of 1 from the = received TTL, except in the special case of first-SFF receiving TTL 0 which= shall result in a transmitted TTL of 63. Classifiers that support TTL sh= all adopt 63 as the default initial TTL. From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:39 AM To: jmh.direct ; Joel M. Halpern ; Joe Clarke ; Ron Parker ; James N Guichard ; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Sorry, yes, I think the proposed text is OK. If it would help others, we could be more explicit about the reason. David Dolson =FD From: jmh.direct Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James N Guichard;= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header It seems you are saying you agree with the described behavior. Can you live with the text as it is? Yours, Joel Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Dave Dolson > Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT+01:00) To: "Joel M. Halpern" >, Jo= e Clarke >, Ron Parker >, James N = Guichard >,= sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header For the record, I want backwards compatibility. And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason. As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64. David Dolson =FD Original Message From: Joel M. Halpern Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header There are really two separate issues. First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough consensus Jim and I saw. Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. Yours, Joel On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: > On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >> >> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list. > > Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I > wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from > the beginning. > > While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a > year? In two? > > Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat > explicitness. > > Joe > >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF = is >>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>> *To:* Ron Parker >; James N Guichard >>> >; sfc@= ietf.org >>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Ron, >>> >>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prio= r >>> header format. >>> >>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>> previously =93reserved=94. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from = 0 >>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it? Why are we insistent that th= e >>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I misse= d >>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it= to >>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement b= y >>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>> >>> >>> >>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originatin= g >>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guicha= rd >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear WG: >>> >>> >>> >>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.2: >>> >>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>> >>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>> >>> >>> >>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>> >>> >>> >>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of = 1 >>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating a= n >>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NO= T >>> be forwarded. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.4: >>> >>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 3.5: >>> >>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.= 2 >>> base header. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.1: >>> >>> Current text is as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bit= s >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>> >>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Replace entire text as follows: >>> >>> >>> >>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>> >>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>> >>> >>> >>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>> >>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>> >>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>> >>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 12.2.3: >>> >>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>> 8-bit values. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>> changes to the suggested text).* >>> >>> * * >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim & Joel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sfc mailing list >> sfc@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc > --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BCFF4wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ron,

I would not want an SFF t= o have to know if it is the first that is capable of decrementing TTL.=

Also, the backwards-compa= tibility is also intended to address the situation with some SFFs not decre= menting the TTL.

 <= /p>

So I think what you propo= se only complicates matters.

 <= /p>

Can we instead say, =93TT= L coded as 0 (binary 000000) represents 64. Decrementing this value of 0 re= sults in 63 (binary 111111)=94.

This doesn=92t actually p= roduce any special cases in code, since integer math under-flows properly o= n all modern processors and hardware adders.

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

-Dave

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Ron Park= er [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:07 AM
To: Dave Dolson; jmh.direct; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; James N Gu= ichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Thanks all for the discussion, and I now appreciate = the backward compatibility aspect.   But, if we take a more direc= t approach to describing the behavior, we simply need to state what happens= when SFF receives NSH with TTL=3D0, TTL=3D1, TTL >1.   I might offer the following=85

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. Treatment of certai= n received TTL values by an SFF is dependent on the SFF=92s position within= the sequence of SFF=92s for the given Service Function Path.   A= received TTL value of 0 received by the first SFF in an SFP shall be treated as if it had a value of 64, for backward compat= ibility with classifiers that don=92t set TTL.    A received= TTL value of 0 at a non-first SFF shall result in discard of the packet.&n= bsp;  A received TTL value of 1 received by the last SFF in an SFP is valid and shall result in appropriate forwarding to attached = service functions.   A received TTL value of 1 received by a non-= last SFF in an SFP shall result in discard of the packet.   For a= ll scenarios where propagation to a subsequent SFF are valid, the transmitted TTL shall be a decrement of 1 from the received TTL= , except in the special case of first-SFF receiving TTL 0 which shall resul= t in a transmitted TTL of 63.   Classifiers that support TTL shal= l adopt 63 as the default initial TTL.

 

 <= /p>

 

From: Dave D= olson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:39 AM
To: jmh.direct <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>; Joel M. Halpern &= lt;jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com>; Ron Parke= r <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.gui= chard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Sorry, yes, I t= hink the proposed text is OK.

If it would hel= p others, we could be more explicit about the reason.

 

David Dols= on
=FD

From: jmh.direct

Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM

To: Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker= ; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se= rif"">

Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header<= /o:p>

 

It seems you are saying you agree with the described= behavior.

 

Can you live with the text as it is?

 

Yours,

Joel

 

 

 

Sent = via the Samsung Galaxy S=AE 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

 

-------- Original messag= e --------

From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>

Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT= +01:00)

To: "Joel M. Halper= n" <jmh@joelhalpern.c= om>, Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com&g= t;, Ron Parker <R= on_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, James N= Guichard <james.n= .guichard@huawei.com>, sfc@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL f= ield within the NSH base header

 =

For the record, I want backwards compatibility.
And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited on= the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason.

As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=3D0 is valid on the wire,= meaning 64.

David Dolson
=FD
  Original Message
From: Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM
To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header


There are really two separate issues.
First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want?
     The discussion started with a proposal along the l= ines Ron
suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided.  We are trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a
close.  Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility.  So, yes= ,
we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough
consensus Jim and I saw.

Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear.  It is
always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything
at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior
with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.)  W= e
need to be somewhere in between.  We may not be in the right place.
Yours,
Joel

On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote:
> On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>> That alternative was discussed.  It also works.
>> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an ol= d
>> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from th= e TTL.
>> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing= the
>> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work wi= th an
>> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0.
>>
>> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >> einterim adn on the list.
>
> Thanks, Joel.  I know it was discussed, but reading the final tex= t, I
> wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from<= br> > the beginning.
>
> While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in = a
> year?  In two?
>
> Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat
> explicitness.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote:
>>> Thanks, Dave.    Do you think it is possible to= combine that backward
>>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for = a packet
>>> that arrives with TTL=3D1 and conditioning behavior on whether= the SFF is
>>> the terminating SFF of the path?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Dave Dolson [m= ailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM
>>> *To:* Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; James N Guichard
>>> <james.n.gui= chard@huawei.com>; sfc@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron,
>>>
>>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero afte= r
>>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with= the prior
>>> header format.
>>>
>>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that we= re
>>> previously =93reserved=94.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc= -bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM
>>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ie= tf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org><= br> >>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing b= y 1 from 0
>>> and reaching 63.   This would only occur in an error= scenario where a
>>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn=92t it?   Why are w= e insistent that the
>>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this probl= em.     I
>>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize i= f I missed
>>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that rec= eives an
>>> NSH with TTL=3D1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., al= lowing it to
>>> engage its local SF instances, still).   Otherwise, = it must decrement by
>>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL befo= re
>>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain.&= nbsp; If the
>>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would = otherwise
>>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packet= s to
>>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service F= unction
>>> Chain.   If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF= must decrement the
>>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF.   The def= ault for originating
>>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sf= c-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM
>>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear WG:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing lis= t it
>>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fiel= d to the
>>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following change= s:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.2:
>>>
>>> Update figure 2 as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 = 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>     |Ver|O|R|    TTL &= nbsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>>
>>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-&#= 43;-+
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Add the following text after figure 2:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL= by a
>>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a = value of 1
>>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for orig= inating an
>>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur bef= ore
>>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packe= t MUST NOT
>>> be forwarded.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.4:
>>>
>>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 3.5:
>>>
>>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per s= ection 3.2
>>> base header.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.1:
>>>
>>> Current text is as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are ten bits at the beginning of the N= SH Base Header.  New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)
>>>
>>>    Bits 4-9 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Replace entire text as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Bas= e Header. New bits
>>>
>>>    are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226].=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Bits 0-1 - Version
>>>
>>>    Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)
>>>
>>>    Bit 3 - Reserved
>>>
>>>    Bits 16-19 - Reserved
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 12.2.3:
>>>
>>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit valu= es *not*
>>> 8-bit values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these change= s (or any
>>> changes to the suggested text).*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>> https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BCFF4wtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 07:27:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B453F129503 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:27:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iM2JCHmc5R1F for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BA1612EAD2 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.194.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:23:23 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:23:23 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , Ron Parker , jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZEgAAMRtCAAA29MIAAAf8Q Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:23:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD046wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:27:51 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD046wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgZGViYXRlIGFib3V0IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIGZsYWdzIG11c3QgYmUgc2V0IHRv IHplcm8gd2hlbiB0aGUgcGFja2V0IGlzIGNyZWF0ZWQgb3IgZWFjaCB0aW1lIGl0IGlzIHNlbnQg ZnJvbSBhIGRldmljZS4NCkkgdGhpbmsgbW9zdCBvZiB1cyBob3BlZCB0aGF0IFNGRnMgYW5kIFNG cyBvbmx5IOKAnGZvcndhcmTigJ0gcGFja2V0cywgbm90IOKAnHdyaXRl4oCdIHBhY2tldHMuDQoN ClNob3VsZCB3ZSBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRvIGluZGljYXRlIHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNl IGJldHdlZW4gYSBjbGFzc2lmaWVyIGNyZWF0aW5nIGEgcGFja2V0IGFuZCB6ZXJvaW5nIHRoZSBy ZXNlcnZlZCBmbGFncyB2cy4gU0ZGcyBhbmQgU0ZzIGZvcndhcmRpbmcgd2hhdGV2ZXIgaXMgcmVj ZWl2ZWQ/DQoNCg0KRnJvbTogbW9oYW1lZC5ib3VjYWRhaXJAb3JhbmdlLmNvbSBbbWFpbHRvOm1v aGFtZWQuYm91Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb21dDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEFwcmlsIDI4LCAyMDE3 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[64.7.137.134]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DE95128B38 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLR-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.196.172) by WTL-EXCHP-2.sandvine.com (192.168.194.177) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:29:16 -0400 Received: from WTL-EXCHP-1.sandvine.com ([fe80::ac6b:cc1e:f2ff:93aa]) by blr-exchp-2.sandvine.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:29:15 -0400 From: Dave Dolson To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "James N Guichard" , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAl9XdgAAMaEWA= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:29:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.200.114] x-c2processedorg: b2f06e69-072f-40ee-90c5-80a34e700794 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD0A0wtlexchp1sandvi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:33:25 -0000 --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD0A0wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Med, "SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to attached SF= s even if SHL is decremented to 0." I don't think this is right. If TTL/SHL is decremented to 0, this must not be forwarded as NSH. I see that *receiving* a packet with SHL=3D1 can result in chain terminatio= n, i.e., NSH decapsulation. But not forwarding as NSH with SHL=3D0. -Dave From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:36 AM To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Hi Jim, all, I have the following comments : =B7 Change "TTL" to "SFF Hop Limit (SHL)" because this field is not= about a time to live but about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed. =B7 I don't understand what is meant by "testing". =B7 I suggest to make this change to cover the following points: o SHL should be configurable by the control plane. o Packets can be forwarded to SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0 for th= e terminating SFF. o I don't think it is a good idea to include "Decrementing by a value of= 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63" because this will lead to a br= oken mechanism. OLD: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. NEW: SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indicates the maximum SFF hops for a service chain. Th= e initial SHL value SHOULD be configurable via the control plane; the confi= gured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial= value is explicitly provided, the default initial SHL value 63 MUST be use= d. Each SFF involved in forwarding an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value b= y 1. The packet MUST NOT be forwarded to a next hop SFF if SHL is decrement= ed to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to = attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0. Thank you. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD0A0wtlexchp1sandvi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Med,=

 

“SFFs that term= inate a service chain MUST forward the packet to attached SFs even if SHL i= s decremented to 0.”

I don’t think this is right.

If TTL/SHL is decremented to 0, this must not be for= warded as NSH.

I see that *receiving* a packet with SHL=3D1 = can result in chain termination, i.e., NSH decapsulation. But not forwardin= g as NSH with SHL=3D0.

 

-Dave

 

 

From: sfc [mai= lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:36 AM
To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I have the following comments :

=B7       =   Change “TTL” to “SFF= Hop Limit (SHL)” because this field is not about a time to live but = about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed.

=B7       =   I don’t understand what is meant= by “testing”.

=B7       =   I suggest to make this change to cover= the following points:

o    SHL should be configurable by the cont= rol plane.

o    Packets can be forwarded to SFs even i= f SHL is decremented to 0 for the terminating SFF.

o    I don’t think it is a good idea = to include “Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63” because this will lead to a broken mechanism. =

 

OLD:

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the= TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a val= ue of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The de= crement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0,= the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

NEW:

SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indicates the maximum SFF hops for a = service chain. The initial SHL value SHOULD be configurable via the control= plane; the configured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial value is explicitly provided, the = default initial SHL value 63 MUST be used. Each SFF involved in forwarding = an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value by 1. The packet MUST NOT be forward= ed to a next hop SFF if SHL is decremented to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to at= tached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0.

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : sfc [mailto:sfc= -bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the m= ailing list it appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL fi= eld to the NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes:=

 

Section 3.2:

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

    |Ver|O|R|    TTL &n= bsp;  |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+

 

Add the following text after figure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decreme= nt the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by= a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for ori= ginating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement, if= the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 

Section 3.4:

Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:

Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header forma= t as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits at the beginning of = the NSH Base Header.  New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit)=

   Bits 4-9 - Reserved

 

Replace entire text as follows:

 

   There are eight reserved bits in the NS= H Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5= 226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit)

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reserved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect = 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and indicate support for = these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98705BD0A0wtlexchp1sandvi_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 07:37:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BB912EA7F for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:37:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4u5IJBa3_dTu for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta136.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.70.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E848129C5E for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.66]) by opfednr26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 624E320355; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:33:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.51]) by opfednr02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EEDD1120073; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:33:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORM53.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::c469:df6b:6d94:b4e1%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:33:21 +0200 From: To: Dave Dolson , Ron Parker , jmh.direct , "Joel M. Halpern" , Joe Clarke , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AQHSwBtMhW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxqHauKZEgAAMRtCAAA29MIAAAf8QgAACKyA= Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:33:21 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E48D@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E48DOPEXCNORMADcorp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id arUIcDQnBRaX for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.orange.com (mta239.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A794D1294F7 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 07:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.4]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 1447C1C0606; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:38:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme3.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.50.92]) by opfedar02.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E911618007A; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:38:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f1a0:3c6b:bc7b:3aaf]) by OPEXCNORMAC.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f9fb:6cba:1c64:7737%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0339.000; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:38:19 +0200 From: To: Dave Dolson , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TTL field within the NSH base header Thread-Index: AdK/h0bahW5bvXGwSoCeYu3QIaIxxgAl9XdgAAMaEWAAADpXIA== Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:38:19 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E4BD@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E3B9@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E4BDOPEXCNORMADcorp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 14:43:01 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E4BDOPEXCNORMADcorp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re-, I see SHL as a means to prevent SFF loops. There is no value in deleting a = packet after an SFF decrement the SHL to 0, but that packet is to be passed= to SFs that are attached to this SFF. The packet will be forwarded after s= tripping the NSH header; no risk for SFF loops out there. No? Cheers, Med De : Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] Envoy=E9 : vendredi 28 avril 2017 16:29 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Objet : RE: TTL field within the NSH base header Med, "SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to attached SF= s even if SHL is decremented to 0." I don't think this is right. If TTL/SHL is decremented to 0, this must not be forwarded as NSH. I see that *receiving* a packet with SHL=3D1 can result in chain terminatio= n, i.e., NSH decapsulation. But not forwarding as NSH with SHL=3D0. -Dave From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@oran= ge.com Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:36 AM To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Hi Jim, all, I have the following comments : =B7 Change "TTL" to "SFF Hop Limit (SHL)" because this field is not= about a time to live but about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed. =B7 I don't understand what is meant by "testing". =B7 I suggest to make this change to cover the following points: o SHL should be configurable by the control plane. o Packets can be forwarded to SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0 for the= terminating SFF. o I don't think it is a good idea to include "Decrementing by a value of = 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63" because this will lead to a bro= ken mechanism. OLD: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. NEW: SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indicates the maximum SFF hops for a service chain. Th= e initial SHL value SHOULD be configurable via the control plane; the confi= gured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial= value is explicitly provided, the default initial SHL value 63 MUST be use= d. Each SFF involved in forwarding an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value b= y 1. The packet MUST NOT be forwarded to a next hop SFF if SHL is decrement= ed to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST forward the packet to = attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0. Thank you. Cheers, Med De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54 =C0 : sfc@ietf.org Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header Dear WG: Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it appears = to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base hea= der. We would like to propose the following changes: Section 3.2: Update figure 2 as follows: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Add the following text after figure 2: TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value o= f 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 sh= all result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet = is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After= decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded. Section 3.4: Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 3.5: Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 ba= se header. Section 12.2.1: Current text is as follows: There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) Bits 4-9 - Reserved Replace entire text as follows: There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. Bits 0-1 - Version Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) Bit 3 - Reserved Bits 16-19 - Reserved Section 12.2.3: Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bi= t values. Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any chan= ges to the suggested text). Thanks, Jim & Joel --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E4BDOPEXCNORMADcorp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Re-,

 

I see SHL as = a means to prevent SFF loops. There is no value in deleting a packet after = an SFF decrement the SHL to 0, but that packet is to be passed to SFs that are attached to this SFF. The packet will be forwarded after s= tripping the NSH header; no risk for SFF loops out there. No?

 

Cheers,<= /o:p>

Med

 

De : Dave= Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 28 avril 2017 16:29
=C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org=
Objet : RE: TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Med,

 <= /span>

“= SFFs that terminate a service chain MUST = forward the packet to attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0.”<= /span>

I don’t think this is rig= ht.

If TTL/SHL is decremented to 0,= this must not be forwarded as NSH.

I see that *receiving* a= packet with SHL=3D1 can result in chain termination, i.e., NSH decapsulati= on. But not forwarding as NSH with SHL=3D0.

 

-Dave

 <= /span>

 <= /span>

From: sfc [mailto:s= fc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed= .boucadair@orange.com
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 9:36 AM
To: James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Hi Jim, all,

 

I have the fo= llowing comments :

=B7         Chang= e “TTL” to “SFF Hop Limit (SHL)” because this field= is not about a time to live but about a limit of SFF hops to be crossed.

=B7         I don= ’t understand what is meant by “testing”.

=B7         I sug= gest to make this change to cover the following points:

o   SHL s= hould be configurable by the control plane.

o   Packe= ts can be forwarded to SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0 for the terminat= ing SFF.

o   I don= ’t think it is a good idea to include “Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63” because th= is will lead to a broken mechanism.

 =

OLD:

TTL: Service plane time-t= o-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets i= t receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL v= alue of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for 0. After decrement= , if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.

 =

NEW:

SHL (SFF Hop Limit): Indi= cates the maximum SFF hops for a service chain. The initial SHL value SHOUL= D be configurable via the control plane; the configured initial value can be specific to a chain or all chains. If no initial value is exp= licitly provided, the default initial SHL value 63 MUST be used. Each SFF i= nvolved in forwarding an NSH packet MUST decrement SHL value by 1. The pack= et MUST NOT be forwarded to a next hop SFF if SHL is decremented to zero. SFFs that terminate a service chain= MUST forward the packet to attached SFs even if SHL is decremented to 0.

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers,

Med

 =

De : sfc = [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de James N Guichard
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 27 avril 2017 20:54
=C0 : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header

 

Dear WG:

 

Having reviewed all of the emai= l discussion on the mailing list it appears to the chairs that we have cons= ensus to add a TTL field to the NSH base header. We would like to propose t= he following changes:

 

Section 3.2:<= /p>

Update figure 2 as follows:

 

     = 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+<= /o:p>

    |Ver|O= |R|    TTL    |   Length  |R|R= |R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |=

    +-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= 3;-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+<= /o:p>

 

Add the following text after fi= gure 2:

 

TTL: Service plane time-to-live= . An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a value of 1 for all NSH packets it rece= ives. Decrementing by a value of 1 from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63= . The default for originating an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before testing for = 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT be forwarded.<= o:p>

 

Section 3.4:<= /p>

Update figure 4 to reflect the = new base header format as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 3.5:<= /p>

Update figure 5 to reflect the = new base header format as per section 3.2 base header.

 

Section 12.2.1:

Current text is as follows:

 

   There are ten bits= at the beginning of the NSH Base Header.  New bits<= /p>

   are assigned via S= tandards Action [RFC5226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version=

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit= )

   Bit 3 - Critical T= LV (C bit)

   Bits 4-9 - Reserve= d

 

Replace entire text as follows:=

 

   There are eight re= served bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits

   are assigned via S= tandards Action [RFC5226].

 

   Bits 0-1 - Version=

   Bit 2 - OAM (O bit= )

   Bit 3 - Reserved

   Bits 16-19 - Reser= ved

 

Section 12.2.3:

Current text has the MD-type as= 8-bit values.

 

Update text for this section an= d table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* 8-bit values.

 

Please review carefully and = indicate support for these changes (or any changes to the suggested text).<= /span>

 

Thanks,

 

Jim & Joel

 

 

 

 

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E4BDOPEXCNORMADcorp_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 08:20:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sfc@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C851293D8 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:20:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3Gpi36jMj4L for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EBE3129BBE for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14881A60515; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1493392632; bh=Di8/v2cGpaHZRcDGvi8u9jcVU8etvO+PP/3eBm9CHwQ=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=TzEIY5vqXaMWnkA2RY+xfDXSS1bo1H+gJdq6oXu9BLRAe7bR3Xz4uNtEfmstIDMm4 h1fPp2F8NM6jHzKhScynrmJSUcD8bQBLuGcAg4+g83iMJm7Kp07JAGW4uW9k7mqXxK Um9GkGScbasqoB3QYBojwCPeVhldnOeWPovx4R/s= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [82.209.169.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C0A524EB38; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 08:17:08 -0700 (PDT) To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, Dave Dolson , Ron Parker , Joe Clarke , James N Guichard , "sfc@ietf.org" References: <20170428123908.5161041.12187.10550@sandvine.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E422@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E48D@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <0d222943-0036-31a4-0bf0-998010088310@joelhalpern.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 11:17:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5E48D@OPEXCNORMAD.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header X-BeenThere: sfc@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Service Chaining List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:20:41 -0000 One of the minor clarifications for the document, not related directly to TTL, that I gathered from the list discussion was that some people were understanding the 0 on transmission requirement the way you say. That was never the intent. That would have made the behavior counter-productive for forward compatibility. So we will direct the authors to clarify that the MBZ is on origination, and that other devices must preserve the reserved bits unmodified. (When the bits have meaning, and the meaning is understood, then the intermediate behavior will depend upon the specific bit obviously.) Yours, Joel On 4/28/17 10:33 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote: > Re-, > > > > The current spec says : > > > > All other flag fields are reserved for future use. Reserved bits > > MUST be set to zero when sent and MUST be ignored upon receipt. > > > > Which means that these bits are zeroed, not forwarded as received. > > > > Changing that behavior would avoid that the SFF hop limit bits are > zeroed by an non-compatible SFF, but still doing so would lead to > processing a hop limit field that is not reflecting the exact SFF hops > (SFF loops will be still possible, then). Is it worth to enable the > feature in such SFC domain given the unreliability of the mechanism? > Wouldn’t be simple to require to enable it only if all SFFs/Classifier > if a domain comply with it? > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :*Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] > *Envoyé :* vendredi 28 avril 2017 16:23 > *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; Ron Parker; jmh.direct; Joel M. > Halpern; Joe Clarke; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > *Objet :* RE: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > This is the debate about whether the flags must be set to zero when the > packet is created or each time it is sent from a device. > > I think most of us hoped that SFFs and SFs only “forward” packets, not > “write” packets. > > > > Should we change the language to indicate the difference between a > classifier creating a packet and zeroing the reserved flags vs. SFFs and > SFs forwarding whatever is received? > > > > > > *From:*mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] > *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 10:17 AM > *To:* Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; jmh.direct; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; > James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Ron, all, > > > > About the decrement of 0 to 63, isn’t that behavior broken anyway given > that a non-compliant SFF in the path will set these bits to zero because > reserved bits “MUST be set to zero when sent”? > > > > Cheers, > > Med > > > > *De :*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Ron Parker > *Envoyé :* vendredi 28 avril 2017 16:07 > *À :* Dave Dolson; jmh.direct; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; James N > Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > *Objet :* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Thanks all for the discussion, and I now appreciate the backward > compatibility aspect. But, if we take a more direct approach to > describing the behavior, we simply need to state what happens when SFF > receives NSH with TTL=0, TTL=1, TTL >1. I might offer the following… > > > > TTL: Service plane time-to-live. Treatment of certain received TTL > values by an SFF is dependent on the SFF’s position within the sequence > of SFF’s for the given Service Function Path. A received TTL value of > 0 received by the first SFF in an SFP shall be treated as if it had a > value of 64, for backward compatibility with classifiers that don’t set > TTL. A received TTL value of 0 at a non-first SFF shall result in > discard of the packet. A received TTL value of 1 received by the last > SFF in an SFP is valid and shall result in appropriate forwarding to > attached service functions. A received TTL value of 1 received by a > non-last SFF in an SFP shall result in discard of the packet. For all > scenarios where propagation to a subsequent SFF are valid, the > transmitted TTL shall be a decrement of 1 from the received TTL, except > in the special case of first-SFF receiving TTL 0 which shall result in a > transmitted TTL of 63. Classifiers that support TTL shall adopt 63 as > the default initial TTL. > > > > > > > > *From:*Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] > *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 8:39 AM > *To:* jmh.direct >; Joel M. Halpern > >; Joe Clarke > >; Ron Parker > >; James N Guichard > >; > sfc@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > Sorry, yes, I think the proposed text is OK. > > If it would help others, we could be more explicit about the reason. > > > > David Dolson > ‎ > > *From: *jmh.direct > > *Sent: *Friday, April 28, 2017 8:31 AM > > *To: *Dave Dolson; Joel M. Halpern; Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; James N > Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > > *Subject: *Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > It seems you are saying you agree with the described behavior. > > > > Can you live with the text as it is? > > > > Yours, > > Joel > > > > > > > > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Dave Dolson > > > Date: 4/28/17 13:49 (GMT+01:00) > > To: "Joel M. Halpern" >, Joe Clarke >, Ron Parker >, James N Guichard > >, > sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > > For the record, I want backwards compatibility. > And also, I think it is wasteful to have a code-point that is prohibited > on the wire. I've always felt IP.TTL was bad for this reason. > > As for the wording, we could be explicit that TTL=0 is valid on the > wire, meaning 64. > > David Dolson > ‎ > Original Message > From: Joel M. Halpern > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 4:28 AM > To: Joe Clarke; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header > > > There are really two separate issues. > First, and most important, what behavior does the working group want? > The discussion started with a proposal along the lines Ron > suggests, and moved to what is in the summary Jim provided. We are > trying as chairs to reflect the WG agreement, and to bring this to a > close. Yes, we are incurring technical debt (of different forms and > degrees) in any solution that allows backwards compatibility. So, yes, > we can still change this if the WG wants, but this was the rough > consensus Jim and I saw. > > Second, there is the question of whether the text is clear. It is > always a balancing act between explaining the motivation for everything > at great length 9and losing the reader), vs just giving the behavior > with no explanation (and tending to get incorrect implementations.) We > need to be somewhere in between. We may not be in the right place. > > Yours, > Joel > > On 4/27/17 5:55 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: >> On 4/27/17 16:37, Joel M. Halpern wrote: >>> That alternative was discussed. It also works. >>> However, with that alternative, if the Initial classifier is an old >>> system (not RFC compliant), we will not get any protection from the TTL. >>> If we take this (admittedly slightly odd) approach to decrementing the >>> TTL, then even though we do not recommend it, things still work with an >>> initial classifier that generates a TTL of 0. >>> >>> It is thus more robust, so the WG selected it in discussion atht >>> einterim adn on the list. >> >> Thanks, Joel. I know it was discussed, but reading the final text, I >> wonder if this is just building technical debt into the protocol from >> the beginning. >> >> While this makes sense today, will it be as obvious (or as needed) in a >> year? In two? >> >> Ron's text does seem clearer at the expense of the backward compat >> explicitness. >> >> Joe >> >>> >>> Yours, >>> Joel >>> >>> On 4/27/17 4:05 PM, Ron Parker wrote: >>>> Thanks, Dave. Do you think it is possible to combine that backward >>>> compatibility with the simpler (to me) concept of testing for a packet >>>> that arrives with TTL=1 and conditioning behavior on whether the SFF is >>>> the terminating SFF of the path? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com] >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:03 PM >>>> *To:* Ron Parker >; James N Guichard >>>> >; > sfc@ietf.org >>>> *Subject:* RE: TTL field within the NSH base header >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ron, >>>> >>>> Decrementing from zero to reach 63, and checking for zero after >>>> decrementing provides a degree of backwards compatibility with the prior >>>> header format. >>>> >>>> This permits packets on the wire to have 0 in the bits that were >>>> previously “reserved”. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Parker >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:21 PM >>>> *To:* James N Guichard; sfc@ietf.org >>>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I had to really think about the language around decrementing by 1 from 0 >>>> and reaching 63. This would only occur in an error scenario where a >>>> preceding SFF misbehaved, wouldn’t it? Why are we insistent that the >>>> test for 0 happen after decrement, thereby creating this problem. I >>>> suspect that this has been already discussed and I apologize if I missed >>>> it, but if the language were simplified to say an SFF that receives an >>>> NSH with TTL=1 shall not forward it to another SFF (e.g., allowing it to >>>> engage its local SF instances, still). Otherwise, it must decrement by >>>> 1 before forwarding to another SFF. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> An exact wording along these lines might be something like: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST test the TTL before >>>> forwarding to another SFF for a given Service Function Chain. If the >>>> received TTL value is 1, the SFF MUST drop packets that would otherwise >>>> have been forwarded to another SFF, but SHALL send such packets to >>>> attached service functions if the SFF terminates the Service Function >>>> Chain. If the TTL value is greater than 1, the SFF must decrement the >>>> TTL by 1 before forwarding to another SFF. The default for originating >>>> an NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 2:54 PM >>>> *To:* sfc@ietf.org >>>> *Subject:* [sfc] TTL field within the NSH base header >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear WG: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Having reviewed all of the email discussion on the mailing list it >>>> appears to the chairs that we have consensus to add a TTL field to the >>>> NSH base header. We would like to propose the following changes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 3.2: >>>> >>>> Update figure 2 as follows: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> |Ver|O|R| TTL | Length |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol | >>>> >>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Add the following text after figure 2: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> TTL: Service plane time-to-live. An SFF MUST decrement the TTL by a >>>> value of 1 for all NSH packets it receives. Decrementing by a value of 1 >>>> from 0 shall result in a TTL value of 63. The default for originating an >>>> NSH packet is a TTL value of 63. The decrement SHALL occur before >>>> testing for 0. After decrement, if the TTL is 0, the NSH packet MUST NOT >>>> be forwarded. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 3.4: >>>> >>>> Update figure 4 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >>>> base header. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 3.5: >>>> >>>> Update figure 5 to reflect the new base header format as per section 3.2 >>>> base header. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 12.2.1: >>>> >>>> Current text is as follows: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are ten bits at the beginning of the NSH Base Header. New bits >>>> >>>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>>> >>>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>>> >>>> Bit 3 - Critical TLV (C bit) >>>> >>>> Bits 4-9 - Reserved >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Replace entire text as follows: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There are eight reserved bits in the NSH Base Header. New bits >>>> >>>> are assigned via Standards Action [RFC5226]. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bits 0-1 - Version >>>> >>>> Bit 2 - OAM (O bit) >>>> >>>> Bit 3 - Reserved >>>> >>>> Bits 16-19 - Reserved >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Section 12.2.3: >>>> >>>> Current text has the MD-type as 8-bit values. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Update text for this section and table 1 to reflect 4-bit values *not* >>>> 8-bit values. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Please review carefully and indicate support for these changes (or any >>>> changes to the suggested text).* >>>> >>>> * * >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jim & Joel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sfc mailing list >>>> sfc@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sfc mailing list >>> sfc@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc >> >