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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 12:39:38 -0700
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To: Joel Halpern Direct <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, sfc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet first.
And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to expired and, frankly,
stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I believe the
NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet
before it defines interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent
correctly points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I believe that
we must have more clear and deterministic definition of OAM packet as
current, in my opinion, may cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct <
jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
> That is what we will ask the WG to review.
> If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the WG to take a
> last look.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
>
> On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>> Hi Joel,
>> is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH draft? As I see, it is
>> missing TTL and all related changes:
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<div>you&#39;d expect that I&#39;l=
l look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m =
concerned that NSH refers to expired and, frankly, stalled document that ha=
d not been discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have o=
r refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines interpretat=
ion of O-bit flag.=C2=A0draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly points that in c=
urrent form O-bit indicates presence of OAM information which can be either=
 as metadata or as payload. I believe that we must have more clear and dete=
rministic definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause pro=
blems for HW-based SFC OAM support.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div>=
<div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.dir=
ect@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.<br>
That is what we will ask the WG to review.<br>
If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the WG to take a =
last look.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Joel,<br>
is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH draft? As I see, it is m=
issing TTL and all related changes:<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 12:46:38 -0700
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Next Protocol = "None"
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Hi Adrian,
predictably, I'll ask about OAM section.
The document states:

   Since OAM information will be carried in packets that also include
   payload data, that information must be carried in metadata.

I agree, that if we want to interleave or piggy-back OAM with payload
placing OAM information as metadata may be the right option in SFC.

But what about active OAM, e.g. Echo Request/Reply or proactive
monitoring? Should OAM be carried as metadata in these cases as well?

It is possible but I'm concerned that too flexible TLV format may
prove to be costly for HW-based implementation of SFC OAM.


Regards,

Greg


On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> All,
>
> I refreshed this draft with a little polish.
>
> Recall, it describes how, by setting the NSH "next protocol" field to
> "None" it
> is possible to send an NSH packet without user data but with metadata.
>
> Also recall that this document contains a description of how to handle an
> NSH
> packet with an unknown/unsupported "next protocol" field value.
>
> We previously discussed whether to move some or all of this material to
> the NSH
> document.
> The feeling that I recorded was that the description of handling unknown
> next
> protocols needs to be in the NSH spec, but that it might be wise to leave
> the
> meaning and use of "none" to a separate document to avoid delaying the NSH
> spec.
> I would note that the lack of rapid advancement of the NSH spec might
> suggest
> that we should roll all of this in together.
>
> Along the way, I found I needed to write text about the security
> implications of
> metadata and the way that metadata should be secured. In theory, this
> should all
> be covered in the NSH spec, but it isn't.
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > Sent: 29 June 2017 23:28
> > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> > Subject: I-D Action: draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02.txt
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> >
> >
> >         Title           : Operating the Network Service Header (NSH)
> with Next
> Protocol
> > "None"
> >         Authors         : Adrian Farrel
> >                           John Drake
> >       Filename        : draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02.txt
> >       Pages           : 10
> >       Date            : 2017-06-29
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    This document describes the use of the Network Service Header (NSH)
> >    in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) enabled network with no payload
> >    data and carrying only metadata.  This is achieved by defining a new
> >    NSH "Next Protocol" type value of "None".
> >
> >    This document illustrates some of the functions that may be achieved
> >    or enhanced by this mechanism, but it does not provide an exhaustive
> >    list of use cases, nor is it intended to be definitive about the
> >    functions it describes.  It is expected that other documents will
> >    describe specific use cases in more detail and will define the
> >    protocol mechanics for each use case.
> >
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-sfc-convent/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Adrian,<div>predictably, I&#39;ll ask about OAM section=
.</div><div>The document states:</div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
">   Since OAM information will be carried in packets that also include
   payload data, that information must be carried in metadata.</pre><pre cl=
ass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0=
,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, that if we want=
 to interleave or piggy-back OAM with payload placing OAM information as me=
tadata may be the right option in SFC. </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-new=
page" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font fac=
e=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">But what about active OAM, e.g. Echo Req=
uest/Reply or proactive monitoring? Should OAM be carried as metadata in th=
ese cases as well?</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica=
, sans-serif">It is possible but I&#39;m concerned that too flexible TLV fo=
rmat may prove to be costly for HW-based implementation of SFC OAM.</font><=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font><=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Regards,</fo=
nt></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom=
:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Greg</fo=
nt></pre></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Adrian Farrel <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">All,<br>
<br>
I refreshed this draft with a little polish.<br>
<br>
Recall, it describes how, by setting the NSH &quot;next protocol&quot; fiel=
d to &quot;None&quot; it<br>
is possible to send an NSH packet without user data but with metadata.<br>
<br>
Also recall that this document contains a description of how to handle an N=
SH<br>
packet with an unknown/unsupported &quot;next protocol&quot; field value.<b=
r>
<br>
We previously discussed whether to move some or all of this material to the=
 NSH<br>
document.<br>
The feeling that I recorded was that the description of handling unknown ne=
xt<br>
protocols needs to be in the NSH spec, but that it might be wise to leave t=
he<br>
meaning and use of &quot;none&quot; to a separate document to avoid delayin=
g the NSH spec.<br>
I would note that the lack of rapid advancement of the NSH spec might sugge=
st<br>
that we should roll all of this in together.<br>
<br>
Along the way, I found I needed to write text about the security implicatio=
ns of<br>
metadata and the way that metadata should be secured. In theory, this shoul=
d all<br>
be covered in the NSH spec, but it isn&#39;t.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: I-D-Announce [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf=
.org">i-d-announce-bounces@<wbr>ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</=
a><br>
&gt; Sent: 29 June 2017 23:28<br>
&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>=
<br>
&gt; Subject: I-D Action: draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02.<wbr>txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts<br>
directories.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: Operating the Network Service Header (NSH) with Next<br>
Protocol<br>
&gt; &quot;None&quot;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0: Adrian Farrel<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0John Drake<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-=
farrel-sfc-convent-02.<wbr>txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0: 10<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 : 2017-06-29<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes the use of the Network Service He=
ader (NSH)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in a Service Function Chaining (SFC) enabled network with=
 no payload<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data and carrying only metadata.=C2=A0 This is achieved b=
y defining a new<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NSH &quot;Next Protocol&quot; type value of &quot;None&qu=
ot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document illustrates some of the functions that may =
be achieved<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or enhanced by this mechanism, but it does not provide an=
 exhaustive<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 list of use cases, nor is it intended to be definitive ab=
out the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 functions it describes.=C2=A0 It is expected that other d=
ocuments will<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 describe specific use cases in more detail and will defin=
e the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol mechanics for each use case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-sfc-convent/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc=
/draft-farrel-sfc-convent/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-farrel-sfc-convent-02" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-f=
arrel-sfc-convent-02</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-farrel-sfc-conv=
ent-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<=
wbr>doc/html/draft-farrel-sfc-<wbr>convent-02</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-farrel-sfc-conven=
t-02" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wb=
r>url2=3Ddraft-farrel-sfc-convent-<wbr>02</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm=
ission<br>
&gt; until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http:/=
/tools.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
&gt; I-D-Announce mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org">I-D-Announce@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/i-=
d-announce</a><br>
&gt; Internet-Draft directories: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/shadow.<wbr>html=
</a><br>
&gt; or <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/<wbr>1shadow-sites.txt</a><=
br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1143219cc9ff1f055346ca1c--


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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework 
document.

<chair hat on>
More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does not 
normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was discussed with 
the working group several times, and the OAM wording in -13 is the 
result of that discussion.
</chair hat on>
<chair hat off>
Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH 
document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues (such 
as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM proposals, with 
new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such ahold-up would be 
almost indefinite.
</chair hat off>

Yours,
Joel M. Halpern

On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
> you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet 
> first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to expired and, 
> frankly, stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I 
> believe the NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC 
> OAM packet before it defines interpretation of O-bit 
> flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly points that in current form 
> O-bit indicates presence of OAM information which can be either as 
> metadata or as payload. I believe that we must have more clear and 
> deterministic definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may 
> cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct 
> <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>     That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>     If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the WG to
>     take a last look.
> 
>     Yours,
>     Joel
> 
> 
>     On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> 
>         Hi Joel,
>         is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH draft? As I
>         see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 14:02:30 -0700
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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--94eb2c055b32258bdb055347dacb
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Joel,
by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutions
progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambiguous
term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:

   - control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
   - control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
   - control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
   protocol carried as metadata

If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.

As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload.
But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of
O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.

Regards,
Greg

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
> document.
>
> <chair hat on>
> More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does not
> normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was discussed with the
> working group several times, and the OAM wording in -13 is the result of
> that discussion.
> </chair hat on>
> <chair hat off>
> Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH document
> until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues (such as in-situ,
> etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM proposals, with new behaviors.
> That seems to indicate that such ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
> </chair hat off>
>
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
>
> On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>> Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>> you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet first.
>> And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to expired and, frankly,
>> stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I believe the
>> NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet
>> before it defines interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent
>> correctly points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>> information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I believe that
>> we must have more clear and deterministic definition of OAM packet as
>> current, in my opinion, may cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct <
>> jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>     That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>     If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the WG to
>>     take a last look.
>>
>>     Yours,
>>     Joel
>>
>>
>>     On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Joel,
>>         is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH draft? As I
>>         see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>>

--94eb2c055b32258bdb055347dacb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Joel,<div>by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH =
document until SFC OAM solutions progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and=
, in my view, it is too ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:=
</div><div><ul><li>control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as pa=
yload;<br></li><li>control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as me=
tadata;</li><li>control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SF=
C OAM protocol carried as metadata</li></ul><div>If work on OAM framework i=
s progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discussion as well as allocation=
 of the O-bit itself can be moved there.</div></div><div><br></div><div>As =
co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has depe=
ndency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But cl=
ear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit ar=
e very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Hal=
pern <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D=
"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framewor=
k document.<br>
<br>
&lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does not norma=
tively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This was discussed with the=
 working group several times, and the OAM wording in -13 is the result of t=
hat discussion.<br>
&lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
&lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH document u=
ntil we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues (such as in-situ, e=
tc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new OAM proposals, with new behaviors=
.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate that such ahold-up would be almost indefinit=
e.<br>
&lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel M. Halpern<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet =
first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned that NSH refers to expired and, fran=
kly, stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I believe t=
he NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent co=
rrectly points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM informa=
tion which can be either as metadata or as payload. I believe that we must =
have more clear and deterministic definition of OAM packet as current, in m=
y opinion, may cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br></span><span class=3D"">
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a=
> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank=
">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That is what we will ask the WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the=
 WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is the -12 the latest published version of the =
NSH draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:=
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></span><span class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c055b32258bdb055347dacb--


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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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--001a113cd4e89e60a5055347dafa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Joel and Greg,

I for one am looking forward to seeing what -13 says about this as well as
other things that have been discussed on the list. Regard the O-bit flag,
-13 should have clear wording on what an implementation should do with the
bit at this time (on both sending and receiving) given that we expect its
publication prior to any publication of OAM-related RFCs. It can always be
updated by a future OAM RFC.

Cheers,
Andy


On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
> document.
>
> <chair hat on>
> More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does not
> normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was discussed with the
> working group several times, and the OAM wording in -13 is the result of
> that discussion.
> </chair hat on>
> <chair hat off>
> Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH document
> until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues (such as in-situ,
> etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM proposals, with new behaviors.
> That seems to indicate that such ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
> </chair hat off>
>
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
>
> On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>> Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>> you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet first.
>> And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to expired and, frankly,
>> stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I believe the
>> NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet
>> before it defines interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent
>> correctly points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>> information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I believe that
>> we must have more clear and deterministic definition of OAM packet as
>> current, in my opinion, may cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct <
>> jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>     That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>     If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the WG to
>>     take a last look.
>>
>>     Yours,
>>     Joel
>>
>>
>>     On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Joel,
>>         is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH draft? As I
>>         see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--001a113cd4e89e60a5055347dafa
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Joel and Greg,<div><br></div><div>I for one am looking for=
ward to seeing what -13 says about this as well as other things that have b=
een discussed on the list. Regard the O-bit flag, -13 should have clear wor=
ding on what an implementation should do with the bit at this time (on both=
 sending and receiving) given that we expect its publication prior to any p=
ublication of OAM-related RFCs. It can always be updated by a future OAM RF=
C.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 1, =
2017 at 4:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jm=
h@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Greg, the editors are working on the =
revision of the OAM Framework document.<br>
<br>
&lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does not norma=
tively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This was discussed with the=
 working group several times, and the OAM wording in -13 is the result of t=
hat discussion.<br>
&lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
&lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH document u=
ntil we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues (such as in-situ, e=
tc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new OAM proposals, with new behaviors=
.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate that such ahold-up would be almost indefinit=
e.<br>
&lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel M. Halpern<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM packet =
first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned that NSH refers to expired and, fran=
kly, stalled document that had not been discussed for too long. I believe t=
he NSH document should have or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent co=
rrectly points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM informa=
tion which can be either as metadata or as payload. I believe that we must =
have more clear and deterministic definition of OAM packet as current, in m=
y opinion, may cause problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br></span><span class=3D"">
On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a=
> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank=
">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That is what we will ask the WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If we already had it out, we would have already asked for the=
 WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is the -12 the latest published version of the =
NSH draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:=
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></span><span class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
</span></blockquote><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113cd4e89e60a5055347dafa--


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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <3bded8cb-af40-d7ae-96d5-64135b51aceb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmV38=-w78gsjro3zdndaMZ-+4hyyjR0KGnQR7q0jNBB2A@mail.gmail.com> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 17:11:39 -0400
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/GRprbTQLPFc45s8wM0i20120OX4>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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The definition of the O bit in the document is:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
    [oam-frame]).

    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
    disabled by default.

    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.

This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, 
and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at 
an NSH support entity.

If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to 
improve it.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM 
> solutions progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is 
> too ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
> 
>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>     protocol carried as metadata
> 
> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related 
> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
> 
> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has 
> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. 
> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of 
> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>     document.
> 
>     <chair hat on>
>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>     </chair hat on>
>     <chair hat off>
>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>     </chair hat off>
> 
>     Yours,
>     Joel M. Halpern
> 
>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> 
>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines
>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
> 
>         Regards,
>         Greg
> 
>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
> 
>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>         the WG to
>              take a last look.
> 
>              Yours,
>              Joel
> 
> 
>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> 
>                  Hi Joel,
>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>         draft? As I
>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         _______________________________________________
>         sfc mailing list
>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
> 
> 


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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2017 17:26:58 -0400
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Joel,

I would like to suggest changing:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).

to:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations,
Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and
processing
   is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).


The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the format =
of OAM
information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or
both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM pa=
ckets=E2=80=9D per se,
as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadata.

If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also
be amended to:

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
   a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with the
O bit
   set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
   packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not
support SFC OAM
   procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
   result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
   analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all OAM
functions
   prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
   disabled by default.

   The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST
NOT be set for
   packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along
the SFP.


Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D =
used in the document. The
document should choose one.

Thanks,
Andy


On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote=
:

> The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>    disabled by default.
>
>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
> This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set,
> and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at =
an
> NSH support entity.
>
> If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to
> improve it.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>> Hi Joel,
>> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solution=
s
>> progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous
>> term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>>
>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>     protocol carried as metadata
>>
>> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
>> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
>>
>> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
>> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload.
>> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of
>> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>>     document.
>>
>>     <chair hat on>
>>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>     </chair hat on>
>>     <chair hat off>
>>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>     </chair hat off>
>>
>>     Yours,
>>     Joel M. Halpern
>>
>>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines
>>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         Greg
>>
>>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>>         the WG to
>>              take a last look.
>>
>>              Yours,
>>              Joel
>>
>>
>>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>                  Hi Joel,
>>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>>         draft? As I
>>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         sfc mailing list
>>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Joel,<div><br></div><div>I would like to suggest changing:=
</div><div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">O =
bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and</span><b=
r style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000=
00190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual pack=
et format and processing of</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863=
px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><spa=
n class=3D"gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0OAM messages is outside t=
he scope of this specification (see</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001=
90734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oa=
m-frame]).</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">to:</span></div><div><span style=3D"=
font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.800000190734863px">O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of=
 Operations, Administration, and</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907=
34863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Mainte=
nance (OAM) information.=C2=A0 The actual OAM information format and proces=
sing</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0is outside the scope of this specification (see</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 [oam-frame]).</span><br style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px"></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000=
190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734=
863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"=
>The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the format=
 of OAM information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, o=
r both.=C2=A0Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if=C2=A0there will be=C2=
=A0=E2=80=9COAM packets=E2=80=9D per se, as data packets=C2=A0could possibl=
y also carry OAM=C2=A0information in the metadata.</span><br></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">If=C2=A0this change is acceptable, th=
en the following two paragraphs should also be amended to:</span></div><div=
><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/</span><span =
class=3D"gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0Proxy/Classifer implementat=
ions that do not support=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"gmail-il" style=3D"font=
-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
4863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM pro=
cedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000019=
0734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding recei=
ved packets with the O bit</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800=
000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0set unmodified to the next element in the chai=
n.=C2=A0 Forwarding</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with the O =
bit set unmodified by=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"gmail-il" style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734=
863px">=C2=A0elements that do not support=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"gmail-=
il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0OAM</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000=
190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0pr=
ocedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000=
0190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus i=
t is recommended to</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact =
of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all OAM functions</span><br s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001=
90734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configu=
rable parameter MUST be</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by def=
ault.</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br style=3D"font-=
size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information a=
nd MUST NOT be set for=C2=A0</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073486=
3px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets wi=
thout OAM information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<=
/span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></div><div><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen bot=
h=C2=A0=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the document.=C2=
=A0The document should choose one.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8=
00000190734863px">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000=
00190734863px">Andy</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907=
34863px"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The =
definition of the O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 For=
warding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r>
<br>
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br>
<br>
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Joel,<span class=3D""><br>
by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutio=
ns progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
>
=C2=A0 * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<s=
pan class=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has d=
ependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But=
 clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit=
 are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br></span><div><div class=3D"h5">
On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&=
gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This=
 was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bi=
t and wording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned t=
hat NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<=
wbr>.com</a>&gt;<br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><span class=
=3D""><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>____________=
_____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<=
wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113cd4e8d498e805534832c1--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Dear All,
I agree and support changes suggested by Andrew.

Regards,
Greg

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joel,
>
> I would like to suggest changing:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
> to:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations,
> Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and
> processing
>    is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).
>
>
> The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the forma=
t of OAM
> information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or
> both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM =
packets=E2=80=9D per se,
> as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadata=
.
>
> If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should
> also be amended to:
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with th=
e
> O bit
>    set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
>    packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not
> support SFC OAM
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>    analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all
> OAM functions
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>    disabled by default.
>
>    The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST
> NOT be set for
>    packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along
> the SFP.
>
>
> Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=
=9D used in the document. The
> document should choose one.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>>
>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>    [oam-frame]).
>>
>>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>>    disabled by default.
>>
>>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>
>> This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set,
>> and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at=
 an
>> NSH support entity.
>>
>> If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to
>> improve it.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM
>>> solutions progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is=
 too
>>> ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>>>
>>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>>>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>>     protocol carried as metadata
>>>
>>> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
>>> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there=
.
>>>
>>> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
>>> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload=
.
>>> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation o=
f
>>> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>>>     document.
>>>
>>>     <chair hat on>
>>>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>>>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>>>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>>>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>>     </chair hat on>
>>>     <chair hat off>
>>>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>>>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>>>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>>>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>>>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>>     </chair hat off>
>>>
>>>     Yours,
>>>     Joel M. Halpern
>>>
>>>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>>>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>>>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>>>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>>>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it define=
s
>>>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctl=
y
>>>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>>>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>>>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>>>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>>>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>>
>>>         Regards,
>>>         Greg
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>>>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>>>         the WG to
>>>              take a last look.
>>>
>>>              Yours,
>>>              Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>                  Hi Joel,
>>>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>>>         draft? As I
>>>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         sfc mailing list
>>>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>I agree and support changes suggested by And=
rew.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 2:26=
 PM, Andrew G. Malis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Joel,<div><br></div><div>I would lik=
e to suggest changing:</div><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">O bit: Setting this bit indicates an O=
perations, Administration, and</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734=
863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintena=
nce (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and processing of</span><b=
r style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000=
00190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-173375181644732326gmai=
l-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0OAM messages is outside the scope of thi=
s specification (see</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).</spa=
n><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></div><div><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div></span><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">to:</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8=
00000190734863px">O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operati=
ons, Administration, and</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"=
><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (O=
AM) information.=C2=A0 The actual OAM information format and processing</sp=
an></div><span class=3D""><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863p=
x">=C2=A0 =C2=A0is outside the scope of this specification (see</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 [oam-frame]).</span><br st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:=
12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800=
000190734863px"><br></span></div></span><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.80=
0000190734863px">The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet kn=
ow if the format of OAM information, and whether it will be in metadata, pa=
cket contents, or both.=C2=A0Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if=C2=A0t=
here will be=C2=A0=E2=80=9COAM packets=E2=80=9D per se, as data packets=C2=
=A0could possibly also carry OAM=C2=A0information in the metadata.</span><b=
r></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></di=
v><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">If=C2=A0this change i=
s acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also be amended to:<=
/span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span>=
</div><div><span class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/</span><span class=3D"m_-173375181644732326gmail-il" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.800000190734863px">=C2=A0Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not supp=
ort=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-173375181644732326gmail-il" style=3D"font=
-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
4863px"></span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support</span=
><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8=
00000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwardin=
g received packets with the O bit</span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size=
:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0set unmodified to the next element in t=
he chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863p=
x"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with=
 the O bit set unmodified by=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-1733751816447323=
26gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0elements that do not support=C2=
=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-173375181644732326gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:=
12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863=
px">=C2=A0OAM</span><span class=3D""><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734=
863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedur=
es may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
4863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is r=
ecommended to</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact=
 of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all OAM functions</span><spa=
n class=3D""><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=
=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.8=
00000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0disabled by default.</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST be set for packets cont=
aining OAM information and MUST NOT be set for=C2=A0</span><br style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.800000190734863px"><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets without OAM information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT be =
modified along the SFP.</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
</div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div>=
<div><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Finally,=
 I=E2=80=99ve seen both=C2=A0=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D use=
d in the document.=C2=A0The document should choose one.</span></div><div><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div><div><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Thanks,</span></div><div><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Andy</span></div><div><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px"><br></span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Sat, Jul 1, 2=
017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh=
@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5">The=
 definition of the O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 For=
warding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r>
<br>
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br>
<br>
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<span><br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Joel,<span><br>
by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutio=
ns progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
>
=C2=A0 * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<s=
pan><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has d=
ependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But=
 clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit=
 are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br></span><div><div class=3D"m_-173375181644732326h5">
On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&=
gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This=
 was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bi=
t and wording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned t=
hat NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<=
wbr>.com</a>&gt;<br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><span><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>____________=
_____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br></span><span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<=
wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote></div></div><div class=3D"m_-173375181644732326HOEnZb">=
<div class=3D"m_-173375181644732326h5"><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
</div></div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc<=
/a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c07684ae22fff0553484e0e--


From nobody Sun Jul  2 17:13:56 2017
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From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Below is the announcement of -13 of the NSH document.
To the best of the chairs and editors ability, this reflects all 
comments we have received, in accordance with the rough consensus of the 
WG as best the chairs were able to determine it.

We think it is done.
Please take a look.

Our goal is to hand this document to the IESG by the IETF meeting.  As 
such, we would like all comments to be in by 14-July-2017.

Yours,
Joel and Jim

PS: Unless someone objects, we will accept the OAM clarification Andy 
Malis sent to the list.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 04:33:38 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: sfc@ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

         Title           : Network Service Header
         Authors         : Paul Quinn
                           Uri Elzur
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2017-06-30

Abstract:
    This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
    packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
    provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
    service path.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
    Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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_______________________________________________
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From nobody Mon Jul  3 08:18:25 2017
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

        Title           : Service Function Chaining Operation, Administration and Maintenance Framework
        Authors         : Sam K. Aldrin
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Nagendra Kumar
                          Nobo Akiya
                          Ram Krishnan
                          Anoop Ghanwani
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2017-07-03

Abstract:
   This document provides reference framework for Operations,
   Administration and Maintenance (OAM) for Service Function Chaining
   (SFC).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02


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From nobody Mon Jul  3 16:59:15 2017
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "Fioccola Giuseppe (giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it)" <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 17:13:07 -0700
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>,  "Fioccola Giuseppe (giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it)" <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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--001a113c25ca893e0d055372bf0c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Hi Carlos,
we've received the same comment as #2 from Tal and have clarified location
and IANA consideration in version -01.
As for your first question. There are many advantages of Alternate Marking
methods that we will be glad to discuss during our presentation at SFC
meeting in Prague.
We'll improve wording that characterizes alternate marking method as
producing measurement as near passive method according to RFC 7799.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg, Ciao Giuseppe!
>
> Thanks for sharing this document with SFC!
>
> Looking at it, I have three main high-level comments:
>
>    1. Overall: While clearly I see the usability of this, I wonder if
>    this is too narrow of a solution in presence of things like IOAM that =
allow
>    to do marking as well as much richer set of performance measurements.
>    2. Syntax: The draft talks about two bits, but their location is not
>    specified! That makes for an IANA Considerations section that is trivi=
al.
>    (or going back to #1, the two bits coulee have easily be placed in IOA=
M.
>    3. =E2=80=9Ccan be viewed as true example of passive performance=E2=80=
=9D -> The
>    definition from RFC 7799 seems to potentially disagree with this.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carlos.
>
> On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> would like to bring your attention to the draft  Performance Measurement
> (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00> Function Chaining
> (SFC) Domain <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00>  we'=
ve
> submitted earlier. Alternate Marking method allows performance measuremen=
t
> performed close to passive measurement methods.
> Greatly appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>

--001a113c25ca893e0d055372bf0c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div>we&#39;ve received the same comment as #2 f=
rom Tal and have clarified location and IANA consideration in version -01.<=
/div><div>As for your first question. There are many advantages of Alternat=
e Marking methods that we will be glad to discuss during our presentation a=
t SFC meeting in Prague.</div><div>We&#39;ll improve wording that character=
izes alternate marking method as producing measurement as near passive meth=
od according to RFC 7799.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg<=
/div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon=
, Jul 3, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Hi Greg, Ciao Giuseppe!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing this document with SFC!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at it, I have three main high-level comments:</div>
<div>
<ol class=3D"m_-387568552848970981MailOutline">
<li>Overall: While clearly I see the usability of this, I wonder if this is=
 too narrow of a solution in presence of things like IOAM that allow to do =
marking as well as much richer set of performance measurements.=C2=A0</li><=
li>Syntax: The draft talks about two bits, but their location is not specif=
ied! That makes for an IANA Considerations section that is trivial. (or goi=
ng back to #1, the two bits coulee have easily be placed in IOAM.</li><li>=
=E2=80=9Ccan be viewed as true example of passive performance=E2=80=9D -&gt=
; The definition from RFC 7799 seems to potentially disagree with this.</li=
></ol>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregim=
irsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</di=
v>
<br class=3D"m_-387568552848970981Apple-interchange-newline">
</div></div><div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,
<div>would like to bring your attention to the <a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00" target=3D"_blank">
draft=C2=A0<b><u>=C2=A0</u></b><span style=3D"font-size:1em">Performance Me=
asurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service=C2=A0</span></a><sp=
an class=3D"m_-387568552848970981gmail-h1" style=3D"font-size:1em;line-heig=
ht:0pt;display:inline">
<h1 style=3D"line-height:0pt;display:inline;font-size:1em"><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:normal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-=
pmamm-00" target=3D"_blank">Function Chaining (SFC) Domain</a></span>=C2=A0=
</h1>
</span>we&#39;ve submitted earlier. Alternate Marking method allows perform=
ance measurement performed close to passive measurement methods.</div>
<div>Greatly appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div></div></div><span class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113c25ca893e0d055372bf0c--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Joel Halpern Direct <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From nobody Mon Jul  3 17:37:48 2017
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 00:37:41 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 05:32:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:41:23 -0700
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Hi Carlos,
you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version. And I
think that if it was in the document as you have presented (or very close
to it), it would address my concern, as you've provided clear and
unambiguous definition of what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet
that carries OAM information as payload that immediately follows the NSH.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Andy,
>
> I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more confusion
> that bring clarity.
>
> O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the payload is=
 an
> OAM packet.
>
> However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some Metadata can be
> OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent of a NULL payload =
as
> in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.
>
> A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.
>
> The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am not sure if we might =
be in
> diminishing return territory.
>
> (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the metadata
> independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does belong in
> other documents)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carlos.
>
> On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joel,
>
> I would like to suggest changing:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
> to:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations,
> Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and
> processing
>    is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).
>
>
> The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the forma=
t of OAM
> information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or
> both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM =
packets=E2=80=9D per se,
> as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadata=
.
>
> If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should
> also be amended to:
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with th=
e
> O bit
>    set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
>    packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not
> support SFC OAM
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>    analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all
> OAM functions
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>    disabled by default.
>
>    The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST
> NOT be set for
>    packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along
> the SFP.
>
>
> Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=
=9D used in the document. The
> document should choose one.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>>
>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>    [oam-frame]).
>>
>>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>>    disabled by default.
>>
>>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>
>> This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set,
>> and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at=
 an
>> NSH support entity.
>>
>> If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to
>> improve it.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Joel,
>>> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM
>>> solutions progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is=
 too
>>> ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>>>
>>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>>>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>>     protocol carried as metadata
>>>
>>> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
>>> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there=
.
>>>
>>> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
>>> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload=
.
>>> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation o=
f
>>> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>>>     document.
>>>
>>>     <chair hat on>
>>>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>>>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>>>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>>>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>>     </chair hat on>
>>>     <chair hat off>
>>>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>>>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>>>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>>>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>>>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>>     </chair hat off>
>>>
>>>     Yours,
>>>     Joel M. Halpern
>>>
>>>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>>>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>>>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>>>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>>>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it define=
s
>>>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctl=
y
>>>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>>>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>>>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>>>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>>>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>>
>>>         Regards,
>>>         Greg
>>>
>>>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>>>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>>>         the WG to
>>>              take a last look.
>>>
>>>              Yours,
>>>              Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>                  Hi Joel,
>>>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>>>         draft? As I
>>>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         sfc mailing list
>>>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>

--94eb2c067ebc83962a05537755cb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div>you have valid interpretation of the text i=
n its current version. And I think that if it was in the document as you ha=
ve presented (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you&#39=
;ve provided clear and unambiguous definition of what considered as OAM pac=
ket in SFC - packet that carries OAM information as payload that immediatel=
y follows the NSH.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 3=
, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Hi Andy,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more confusion=
 that bring clarity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the payload=
 is an OAM packet.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some Metadata can =
be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent of a NULL payload=
 as in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am not sure if we mig=
ht be in diminishing return territory.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the metadata indepe=
ndence of O for user packets, although maybe that does belong in other docu=
ments)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
</font></span><div><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agma=
lis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Joel,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to suggest changing:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">O bit: Setting this bit=
 indicates an Operations, Administration, and</span><br style=3D"font-size:=
12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OA=
M) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and processing of</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0</span><span cl=
ass=3D"m_-4571131612281247743gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073486=
3px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0OAM mes=
sages is outside the scope of this specification (see</span><br style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).</=
span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">to:</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">O bit: Setting this bit=
 indicates the presence of Operations, Administration, and</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OA=
M) information.=C2=A0 The actual OAM information format and processing</spa=
n></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0is outside=
 the scope of this specification (see</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800=
000190734863px">=C2=A0 [oam-frame]).</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000=
190734863px">
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">The reason for this cha=
nge is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the format of OAM information, and=
 whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or both.=C2=A0Thus, we do=
n=E2=80=99t yet even know if=C2=A0there will
 be=C2=A0=E2=80=9COAM packets=E2=80=9D per se, as data packets=C2=A0could p=
ossibly also carry OAM=C2=A0information in the metadata.</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">If=C2=A0this change is =
acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also be amended to:</s=
pan></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/</s=
pan><span class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.80=
0000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
=C2=A0Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=C2=A0</span><span=
 class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.80000019073=
4863px">SFC</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures =
SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable =
parameter to enable forwarding received packets with the O bit</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0set unmodi=
fied to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding</span><br style=3D"=
font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with th=
e O bit set unmodified by=C2=A0</span><span class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743=
gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0elements that do not support=C2=A0</=
span><span class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743gmail-il" style=3D"font-size:12.8=
00000190734863px">SFC</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
=C2=A0OAM</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may =
be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><br style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexp=
ected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to</span><br style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the imp=
act of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all OAM functions</span><=
br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabli=
ng this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by def=
ault.</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST =
be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST NOT be set for=C2=A0=
</span><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets without=
 OAM information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.</span=
><br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Finally, I=E2=80=99ve s=
een both=C2=A0=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the docume=
nt.=C2=A0The document should choose one.</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Thanks,</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">Andy</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern =
<span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalper=
n.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The definition of the O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 For=
warding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r>
<br>
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br>
<br>
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<span><br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Joel,<span><br>
by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutio=
ns progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br>
</span>=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as paylo=
ad;<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
>
=C2=A0 * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<s=
pan><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has d=
ependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But=
 clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit=
 are very much needed and will help
 to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
</span>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743h5">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joe=
l M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
mh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This=
 was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bi=
t and wording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned t=
hat NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<=
wbr>.com</a>&gt;<br>
</div>
</div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><span><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>____________=
_____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br>
</span><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
<div class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"m_-4571131612281247743h5"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div></div><span class=3D""><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</span></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:02:26 +0300
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>,  "Fioccola Giuseppe (giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it)" <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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Hi Carlos,

My perspective regarding #1 (I can't claim to be impartial, since I am
taking part in both IOAM and Alternate Marking :) is that IOAM and
Alternate Marking are not competing technologies, but complementary
technologies. IOAM provides fine-grained measurement with per-packet and
per-hop information, but comes at the cost of extending the data packets.
Alternate Marking, on the other hand, provides very accurate per-flow
measurement, at the cost of 1 or 2 bits per packet. Based on this tradeoff,
some operators may choose to use IOAM, others may use Alternate Marking,
and some may use both.

Cheers,
Tal.

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:58 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg, Ciao Giuseppe!
>
> Thanks for sharing this document with SFC!
>
> Looking at it, I have three main high-level comments:
>
>    1. Overall: While clearly I see the usability of this, I wonder if
>    this is too narrow of a solution in presence of things like IOAM that =
allow
>    to do marking as well as much richer set of performance measurements.
>    2. Syntax: The draft talks about two bits, but their location is not
>    specified! That makes for an IANA Considerations section that is trivi=
al.
>    (or going back to #1, the two bits coulee have easily be placed in IOA=
M.
>    3. =E2=80=9Ccan be viewed as true example of passive performance=E2=80=
=9D -> The
>    definition from RFC 7799 seems to potentially disagree with this.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carlos.
>
> On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> would like to bring your attention to the draft  Performance Measurement
> (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00> Function Chaining
> (SFC) Domain <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00>  we'=
ve
> submitted earlier. Alternate Marking method allows performance measuremen=
t
> performed close to passive measurement methods.
> Greatly appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div><br></div><div>My perspective regarding #1 =
(I can&#39;t claim to be impartial, since I am taking part in both IOAM and=
 Alternate Marking :) is that IOAM and Alternate Marking are not competing =
technologies, but complementary technologies. IOAM provides fine-grained me=
asurement with per-packet and per-hop information, but comes at the cost of=
 extending the data packets. Alternate Marking, on the other hand, provides=
 very accurate per-flow measurement, at the cost of 1 or 2 bits per packet.=
 Based on this tradeoff, some operators may choose to use IOAM, others may =
use Alternate Marking, and some may use both.=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tal.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:58 AM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Hi Greg, Ciao Giuseppe!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for sharing this document with SFC!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at it, I have three main high-level comments:</div>
<div>
<ol class=3D"m_-3565378183714016201MailOutline">
<li>Overall: While clearly I see the usability of this, I wonder if this is=
 too narrow of a solution in presence of things like IOAM that allow to do =
marking as well as much richer set of performance measurements.=C2=A0</li><=
li>Syntax: The draft talks about two bits, but their location is not specif=
ied! That makes for an IANA Considerations section that is trivial. (or goi=
ng back to #1, the two bits coulee have easily be placed in IOAM.</li><li>=
=E2=80=9Ccan be viewed as true example of passive performance=E2=80=9D -&gt=
; The definition from RFC 7799 seems to potentially disagree with this.</li=
></ol>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregim=
irsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</di=
v>
<br class=3D"m_-3565378183714016201Apple-interchange-newline">
</div></div><div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,
<div>would like to bring your attention to the <a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-pmamm-00" target=3D"_blank">
draft=C2=A0<b><u>=C2=A0</u></b><span style=3D"font-size:1em">Performance Me=
asurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method in Service=C2=A0</span></a><sp=
an class=3D"m_-3565378183714016201gmail-h1" style=3D"font-size:1em;line-hei=
ght:0pt;display:inline">
<h1 style=3D"line-height:0pt;display:inline;font-size:1em"><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight:normal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-sfc-=
pmamm-00" target=3D"_blank">Function Chaining (SFC) Domain</a></span>=C2=A0=
</h1>
</span>we&#39;ve submitted earlier. Alternate Marking method allows perform=
ance measurement performed close to passive measurement methods.</div>
<div>Greatly appreciate your questions, comments, and suggestions.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div></div></div><span class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</div>
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<br>
</div>
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</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04.txt
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Mohamed,

As requested, I am fwd'ing the new version announcement to the sfc list.

The only delta was to use your words to describe the SFC architecture 
(with slight changes).


Bob


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04.txt
Date: 	Mon, 03 Jul 2017 16:43:11 -0700
From: 	internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: 	i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: 	tsvwg@ietf.org



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group of the IETF.

         Title           : Propagating Explicit Congestion Notification Across IP Tunnel Headers Separated by a Shim
         Author          : Bob Briscoe
	Filename        : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2017-07-03

Abstract:
    RFC 6040 on "Tunnelling of Explicit Congestion Notification" made the
    rules for propagation of ECN consistent for all forms of IP in IP
    tunnel.  This specification updates RFC 6040 to clarify that its
    scope includes tunnels where two IP headers are separated by at least
    one shim header that is not sufficient on its own for wide area
    packet forwarding.  It surveys widely deployed IP tunnelling
    protocols separated by such shim header(s) and updates the
    specifications of those that do not mention ECN propagation (L2TPv2,
    L2TPv3, GRE and Teredo).  This specification also updates RFC 6040
    with configuration requirements needed to make any legacy tunnel
    ingress safe.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



--------------B7E1E96361696627D9A498C1
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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
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  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Mohamed,<br>
    <br>
    As requested, I am fwd'ing the new version announcement to the sfc
    list.<br>
    <br>
    The only delta was to use your words to describe the SFC
    architecture (with slight changes).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
      <br>
      -------- Forwarded Message --------
      <table class="moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0"
        cellpadding="0" border="0">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Subject:
            </th>
            <td>[tsvwg] I-D Action:
              draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04.txt</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
            <td>Mon, 03 Jul 2017 16:43:11 -0700</td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
            <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
            <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <th nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">CC: </th>
            <td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org">tsvwg@ietf.org</a></td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      <br>
      <pre>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : Propagating Explicit Congestion Notification Across IP Tunnel Headers Separated by a Shim
        Author          : Bob Briscoe
	Filename        : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2017-07-03

Abstract:
   RFC 6040 on "Tunnelling of Explicit Congestion Notification" made the
   rules for propagation of ECN consistent for all forms of IP in IP
   tunnel.  This specification updates RFC 6040 to clarify that its
   scope includes tunnels where two IP headers are separated by at least
   one shim header that is not sufficient on its own for wide area
   packet forwarding.  It surveys widely deployed IP tunnelling
   protocols separated by such shim header(s) and updates the
   specifications of those that do not mention ECN propagation (L2TPv2,
   L2TPv3, GRE and Teredo).  This specification also updates RFC 6040
   with configuration requirements needed to make any legacy tunnel
   ingress safe.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim/</a>

There are also htmlized versions available at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04</a>

A diff from the previous version is available at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim-04</a>


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a>


</pre>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------B7E1E96361696627D9A498C1--


From nobody Tue Jul  4 10:14:44 2017
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From: "Duarte Cardoso, Igor" <igor.duarte.cardoso@intel.com>
To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Hi all,

Just read the rfcdiff between -12 and -13 and this was the first time I saw=
 new TTL field (I don't actively follow the mailing list).

Isn't the Service Index field being implicitly/in practice limited to the T=
TL field?

Let me explain my reasoning:
TTL seems to be implicitly limiting SI to 63 because between each SF there =
will be at least 1 SFF, and each SFF will decrement TTL before checking the=
 mapping table. So we can't have 255 SF hops without also having at least ~=
255 SFF hops (potentially many more depending on the topology of SFFs).

Thank you,
Best regards,
Igor.

-----Original Message-----
From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel Halpern
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 1:14 AM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt

Below is the announcement of -13 of the NSH document.
To the best of the chairs and editors ability, this reflects all comments w=
e have received, in accordance with the rough consensus of the WG as best t=
he chairs were able to determine it.

We think it is done.
Please take a look.

Our goal is to hand this document to the IESG by the IETF meeting.  As such=
, we would like all comments to be in by 14-July-2017.

Yours,
Joel and Jim

PS: Unless someone objects, we will accept the OAM clarification Andy Malis=
 sent to the list.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 04:33:38 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: sfc@ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

         Title           : Network Service Header
         Authors         : Paul Quinn
                           Uri Elzur
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2017-06-30

Abstract:
    This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
    packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
    provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
    service path.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
    Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
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_______________________________________________
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To: "Duarte Cardoso, Igor" <igor.duarte.cardoso@intel.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Yes, in theory we could have reduced the size of the SI field without 
loss of functionality.  As I see it, there seemed no point.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/4/17 1:14 PM, Duarte Cardoso, Igor wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just read the rfcdiff between -12 and -13 and this was the first time I saw new TTL field (I don't actively follow the mailing list).
> 
> Isn't the Service Index field being implicitly/in practice limited to the TTL field?
> 
> Let me explain my reasoning:
> TTL seems to be implicitly limiting SI to 63 because between each SF there will be at least 1 SFF, and each SFF will decrement TTL before checking the mapping table. So we can't have 255 SF hops without also having at least ~255 SFF hops (potentially many more depending on the topology of SFFs).
> 
> Thank you,
> Best regards,
> Igor.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joel Halpern
> Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 1:14 AM
> To: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
> 
> Below is the announcement of -13 of the NSH document.
> To the best of the chairs and editors ability, this reflects all comments we have received, in accordance with the rough consensus of the WG as best the chairs were able to determine it.
> 
> We think it is done.
> Please take a look.
> 
> Our goal is to hand this document to the IESG by the IETF meeting.  As such, we would like all comments to be in by 14-July-2017.
> 
> Yours,
> Joel and Jim
> 
> PS: Unless someone objects, we will accept the OAM clarification Andy Malis sent to the list.
> 
> 
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 04:33:38 -0700
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> CC: sfc@ietf.org
> 
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.
> 
>           Title           : Network Service Header
>           Authors         : Paul Quinn
>                             Uri Elzur
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
> 	Pages           : 37
> 	Date            : 2017-06-30
> 
> Abstract:
>      This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
>      packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
>      provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
>      service path.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
>      Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/
> 
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 15:06:26 -0700
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Subject: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03.txt
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Hi Dave, Authors,
thank you for very interesting approach to the problem of SFC complexity.
Great well-written document. Please kindly consider my comments, questions:

   - even though the draft is targeted for Informational track, I'd
   encourage include wording from RFC 8174 that clarifies use of normative
   words:

Requirements Language

   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and
   "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in
BCP <https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp14>
   14 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp14> [RFC2119
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119>] [RFC8174
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8174>] when, and only when, they
appear in all
   capitals, as shown here.


   - I think that adding section with acronyms listed will be helpful
to the reader.
   - Is "stickiness to specific SF instances" another way to say that
SF is stateful? And the same question for types of SFs that require
bidirectional traffic (I think that such requirement implies what
later referred as stickiness, i.e. reverse direction must cross the
same SF instance as the forward direction of SFC).
   - I'm not sure that assumption in Section 2.2 regarding
encapsulation of the packets entering lower-level SFC domain. What you
see as the transport between SFF of the higher-level and IBN?
   - section 3.1.1 refers to IBN as"terminator of lower-level chain".
As I understand, IBN is the representation, proxy of the lower-level
chain in the higher-level. Right? If my understanding is correct, some
terminology alignment may be helpful.
   - Figure 3. What is seen as overlay encapsulation? I'd probably
refer to the outer header as Transport or Underlay without going into
gory details of what it is. But more importantly, in my view, is to
clarify where, at which point in hSFC, hSFC packet has format
presented in Fig.3. I'd imagine that lower-NSH is to be added by the
Classifier of the sub-domain. But would SFF that being handed the
resulting packet have the Transport Header to deal with?
   - I think that sections 3.3 and 3.4 are related as there's some
duplication between SI and TTL that was pointed on the NSH thread by
Igor. Thus policies that regulate handling of SI and TTL may need to
be synchronized or coordinated to have predictable behavior.
   - I think that section 3.4 may benefit from using RFC 3443
terminology in regard to TTL handling between inner and outer headers
and refer to Unified, Short Pipe, and Pipe.
   - does the first paragraph in section 4 refer to IBN removing
higher-level NSH? I thought that is one possible solution and other
solutions may rely on information in the higher-level NSH being
available to the sub-domain Classifier.
   - there's another term very close to bidirectional symmetry as
defined in section 4 - co-routed path. Co-routed path is bidirectional
path that traverses the same set of links and nodes in forward and
reverse directions and is viewed as single entity, e.g. failure in one
direction viewed as bi-directional failure. May be co-routed path be
used as reference or as term in (h)SFC .

Regards,

Greg


On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com> wrote:

> SFC WG,
>
> This new version hopefully addresses some of the comments received on the
> list.
> It also uses the new NSH header format, with some language about handling
> the TTL in the sub-domains.
> (I've written that whether to expose the hops of the sub-domain is
> administrator choice.)
>
> Hopefully my changes are acceptable to the working group.
> I'm more than happy to discuss this with anyone.
>
> I think the main outstanding issue is whether we should reduce the number
> of options in sections 3.1.1 thru 3.1.5 be reduced?
> On one hand, the start and end of sub-domain chains are within the purview
> of a single vendor.
> On the other hand, 5 options is too many.
>
> See you in Prague,
> -Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 3:47 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03.txt
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.
>
>         Title           : Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC)
>         Authors         : David Dolson
>                           Shunsuke Homma
>                           Diego R. Lopez
>                           Mohamed Boucadair
>                           Dapeng Liu
>                           Ting Ao
>                           Vu Anh Vu
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03.txt
>         Pages           : 26
>         Date            : 2017-06-30
>
> Abstract:
>    Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC) is a network
>    architecture allowing an organization to decompose a large-scale
>    network into multiple domains of administration.
>
>    The goals of hSFC are to make a large-scale network easier to reason
>    about, simpler to control and to support independent functional
>    groups within large network operators.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--94eb2c092da04d7ebe05538518ce
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Dave, Authors,<div>thank you for very interesting appro=
ach to the problem of SFC complexity. Great well-written document. Please k=
indly consider my comments, questions:</div><div><ul><li>even though the dr=
aft is targeted for Informational track, I&#39;d encourage include wording =
from RFC 8174 that clarifies use of normative words:</li></ul><pre class=3D=
"m_-8503957559869071737m_3141107160080773680m_5366060935559938260m_23309235=
03302706517gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class=3D"m_-8503957559869071737m_31411=
07160080773680m_5366060935559938260m_2330923503302706517gmail-h3" style=3D"=
line-height:0pt;display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h3 style=3D=
"line-height:0pt;display:inline;font-size:1em">Requirements Language</h3></=
span>

   The key words &quot;MUST&quot;, &quot;MUST NOT&quot;, &quot;REQUIRED&quo=
t;, &quot;SHALL&quot;, &quot;SHALL NOT&quot;,
   &quot;SHOULD&quot;, &quot;SHOULD NOT&quot;, &quot;RECOMMENDED&quot;, &qu=
ot;NOT RECOMMENDED&quot;, &quot;MAY&quot;, and
   &quot;OPTIONAL&quot; in this document are to be interpreted as described=
 in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp14" target=3D"_blank">BCP</a>
   <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp14" target=3D"_blank">14</a> [=
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119" title=3D"&quot;Key words fo=
r use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC21=
19</a>] [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8174" title=3D"&quot;Amb=
iguity of Uppercase vs Lowercase in RFC 2119 Key Words&quot;" target=3D"_bl=
ank">RFC8174</a>] when, and only when, they appear in all
   capitals, as shown here.</pre><pre class=3D"m_-8503957559869071737m_3141=
107160080773680m_5366060935559938260m_2330923503302706517gmail-newpage" sty=
le=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><ul><li><font color=3D"#000000" fac=
e=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I th=
ink that adding section with acronyms listed will be helpful to the reader.=
</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">Is &quot;stickiness to specif=
ic SF instances&quot; another way to say that SF is stateful? And the same =
question for types of SFs that require bidirectional traffic (I think that =
such requirement implies what later referred as stickiness, i.e. reverse di=
rection must cross the same SF instance as the forward direction of SFC).</=
span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans=
-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I&#39;m not sure that assumptio=
n in Section 2.2 regarding encapsulation of the packets entering lower-leve=
l SFC domain. What you see as the transport between SFF of the higher-level=
 and IBN?</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">section 3.1.1 refers=
 to IBN as&quot;terminator of lower-level chain&quot;. As I understand, IBN=
 is the representation, proxy of the lower-level chain in the higher-level.=
 Right? If my understanding is correct, some terminology alignment may be h=
elpful.</span></font></li><li><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">F=
igure 3. What is seen as overlay encapsulation? I&#39;d probably refer to t=
he outer header as Transport or Underlay without going into gory details of=
 what it is. But more importantly, in my view, is to clarify where, at whic=
h point in hSFC, hSFC packet has format presented in Fig.3. I&#39;d imagine=
 that lower-NSH is to be added by the Classifier of the sub-domain. But wou=
ld SFF that being handed the resulting packet have the Transport Header to =
deal with?</font></li><li><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I thi=
nk that sections 3.3 and 3.4 are related as there&#39;s some duplication be=
tween SI and TTL that was pointed on the NSH thread by Igor. Thus policies =
that regulate handling of SI and TTL may need to be synchronized or coordin=
ated to have predictable behavior.</font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" f=
ace=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">I =
think that section 3.4 may benefit from using RFC 3443 terminology in regar=
d to TTL handling between inner and outer headers and refer to Unified, Sho=
rt Pipe, and Pipe.</span></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">does the fi=
rst paragraph in section 4 refer to IBN removing higher-level NSH? I though=
t that is one possible solution and other solutions may rely on information=
 in the higher-level NSH being available to the sub-domain Classifier.</spa=
n></font></li><li><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-se=
rif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">there&#39;s another term very clos=
e to bidirectional symmetry as defined in section 4 - co-routed path. Co-ro=
uted path is bidirectional path that traverses the same set of links and no=
des in forward and reverse directions and is viewed as single entity, e.g. =
failure in one direction viewed as bi-directional failure. May be co-routed=
 path be used as reference or as term in (h)SFC .</span></font></li></ul><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px">Regards,</span></font></pre><pre class=3D"m_-850395755=
9869071737m_3141107160080773680m_5366060935559938260m_2330923503302706517gm=
ail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font color=3D"#000=
000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px">Greg</span></font></pre></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Dave Dolson <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" target=3D"_blank">dd=
olson@sandvine.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
SFC WG,<br>
<br>
This new version hopefully addresses some of the comments received on the l=
ist.<br>
It also uses the new NSH header format, with some language about handling t=
he TTL in the sub-domains.<br>
(I&#39;ve written that whether to expose the hops of the sub-domain is admi=
nistrator choice.)<br>
<br>
Hopefully my changes are acceptable to the working group.<br>
I&#39;m more than happy to discuss this with anyone.<br>
<br>
I think the main outstanding issue is whether we should reduce the number o=
f options in sections 3.1.1 thru 3.1.5 be reduced?<br>
On one hand, the start and end of sub-domain chains are within the purview =
of a single vendor.<br>
On the other hand, 5 options is too many.<br>
<br>
See you in Prague,<br>
-Dave<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">sfc-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>] On Behalf Of <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-=
drafts@ietf.org</a><br>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 3:47 PM<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-<wbr>03.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Davi=
d Dolson<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Shunsuke Homma<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Diego R. Lopez<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mohamed Boucadair<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dapeng Liu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Vu Anh Vu<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-hierarchical-<wbr>03.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 26<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2017-06-30<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC) is a network<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0architecture allowing an organization to decompose a large-sca=
le<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0network into multiple domains of administration.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The goals of hSFC are to make a large-scale network easier to =
reason<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0about, simpler to control and to support independent functiona=
l<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0groups within large network operators.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical/" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/d=
raft-ietf-sfc-<wbr>hierarchical/</a><br>
<br>
There are also htmlized versions available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-ie=
tf-sfc-hierarchical-03</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchica=
l-03" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wb=
r>doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-<wbr>hierarchical-03</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-=
03" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>=
url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-<wbr>hierarchical-03</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://to=
ols.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c092da04d7ebe05538518ce--


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To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Hi Joel, all,=20

The document is almost stable. Below my review of the version:

Major:=20

(1) Indicate that the spec does not assume nor preclude the MD type can cha=
nged on path. For example, this can be added as follows:

NEW:
   NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D  0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where
   the length is of value 0x2).  NSH implementations SHOULD support MD
   Type 0x2 with length > 0x2.  There exists, however, a middle ground,
   wherein a device will support MD Type 0x1 (as per the MUST) metadata,
   yet be deployed in a network with MD Type 0x2 metadata packets.  In
   that case, the MD Type 0x1 node, MUST utilize the base header length
   field to determine the original payload offset if it requires access
   to the original packet/frame.=20

OLD:
   NSH implementations MUST support MD type 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where
   the length is of value 0x2).  NSH implementations SHOULD support MD
   Type 0x2 with length > 0x2.  There exists, however, a middle ground,
   wherein a device will support MD Type 0x1 (as per the MUST) metadata,
   yet be deployed in a network with MD Type 0x2 metadata packets.  In
   that case, the MD Type 0x1 node, MUST utilize the base header length
   field to determine the original payload offset if it requires access
   to the original packet/frame. This specification does not assume nor
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   preclude that the same MD Type is maintained or changed along
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=20
   a service path; it is deployment-specific.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(2) The IANA section is not aligned with the core text with regards to assi=
gned MD type values:

OLD:

   This document defines two MD Type values:

   0x1 - which indicates that the format of the header includes a fixed
   length Context Header (see Figure 4 below).

   0x2 - which does not mandate any headers beyond the Base Header and
   Service Path Header, but may contain optional variable length Context
   Header(s).  The semantics of the variable length Context Header(s)
   are not defined in this document

The text should be updated to refer to these experimental values: 15 (Exper=
iment 1) and 16 (Experiment 2).
Some words about the usage of those values would be appropriate, too.=20

(3) The IANA section is not aligned with the core text with regards to assi=
gned Next Protocol values:

OLD:=20
   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS

NEW:=20
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

Further, the document does not include some text about the use of 254/255 v=
alues.    =20

(4) The document states the following:

OLD:
12.1.  NSH EtherType

   An IEEE EtherType, 0x894F, has been allocated for NSH.

But no entry is found at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/=
ieee-802-numbers.xhtml!=20

Unless I'm mistaken, an action is needed form IANA. Thus, I suggest the fol=
lowing NEW text:=20

NEW:=20
12.1.  NSH EtherType

   IANA is requested to register the IEEE EtherType, 0x894F, for NSH in htt=
ps://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-numbers.xhtml.

=3D=3D
Minor:=20
=3D=3D

* Title: I suggest this modification
OLD: Network Service Header=20
NEW: Network Service Header (NSH)

* Abstract:=20

OLD:=20
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service path.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).
NEW:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
               ^^
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).
                                  ^^

* Introduction:

(1)

OLD:=20
   Service functions are widely deployed and essential in many networks.
   These service functions provide a range of features such as security,
   WAN acceleration, and server load balancing.  Service functions may
   be instantiated at different points in the network infrastructure
   such as the wide area network, data center, campus, and so forth.

NEW:
   Service functions are widely deployed and essential in many networks.
   These service functions provide a range of features such as security,
   WAN (Wide Area Network) acceleration (REF), and server load balancing.  =
Service functions may
   be instantiated at different points in the network infrastructure
   such as the wide area network [I-D.ietf-sfc-use-case-mobility],=20
   data center [I-D.ietf-sfc-dc-use-cases], campus, and so forth.

- expand an acronym
- cite the use case drafts to illustrate the use of SFs
- Given that WAN acceleration may not be that clear, citing a reference whe=
re this is defined will be helpful.

(2) Expand an acronym on first use:=20

OLD:
   NSH defines a new service plane protocol specifically for the
   creation of dynamic service chains and is composed of the following
   elements:

   1.  Service Function Path identification

NEW:
   Network Service Header (NSH) defines a new service plane protocol specif=
ically for the
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   creation of dynamic service chains and is composed of the following
   elements:

   1.  Service Function Path identification.
                                           ^^

*  Section 2.1

(1)

OLD:
   Network Locator:  dataplane address, typically IPv4 or IPv6, used to
      send and receive network traffic.

NEW:
   Network Locator:  dataplane address, typically IPv4 or IPv6, used to
      send and receive traffic.

- Not sure what is meant by "network traffic"

(2)

OLD:
   Network Node/Element:  Device that forwards packets or frames based
      on outer header (i.e. transport) information.

NEW:
   Network Node/Element:  Device that forwards packets or frames based
      on the outer header (i.e., transport) information.
         ^^^^                  ^^=20

(3)=20

OLD:=20
   Network Overlay:  Logical network built on top of existing network
      (the underlay).  Packets are encapsulated or tunneled to create
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
      the overlay network topology.

NEW:=20
   Network Overlay:  Logical network built on top of existing network
      (the underlay).  Packets are encapsulated to create
      the overlay network topology.

(4)

Position the "Service Classifier" entry right after SFP given that the text=
 uses SFs and SFFs acronyms that are introduced later in the section.=20

* Section 2.2: NSH is already expanded.=20

OLD:
   Network Service Header (NSH) addresses several limitations associated
   with service function deployments. =20
NEW:
   NSH addresses several limitations associated
   with service function deployments. =20

* Section 2.3: Transport area folks may be "hurted" by this "network transp=
ort protocol" wording. I suggest to use transport encapsulation as per the =
SFC arch RFC.

OLD:=20
   5.  Transport Agnostic: NSH is transport independent.  An appropriate
       (for a given deployment) network transport protocol can be used
       to transport NSH-encapsulated traffic.  This transport may form
       an overlay network and if an existing overlay topology provides
       the required service path connectivity, that existing overlay may
       be used.

NEW:
   5.  Transport Agnostic: NSH is transport-independent.  An appropriate
                                         ^^^^^^   =20
       (for a given deployment) network transport encapsulation scheme can =
be used
                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       to transport NSH-encapsulated traffic.  This transport may form
       an overlay network and if an existing overlay topology provides
       the required service path connectivity, that existing overlay may
       be used.

* Section 3:

(1)

OLD:
   A Network Service Header (NSH) contains service path information and
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   optionally metadata that are added to a packet or frame and used to
   create a service plane.  An outer transport header is imposed, on NSH^
                    ^^^^^^
   and the original packet/frame, for network forwarding.
^
NEW:
   NSH contains service path information and
   optionally metadata that are added to a packet or frame and used to
   create a service path.  An outer transport header is imposed, on NSH
   and the original packet/frame, for network forwarding.

(2)

OLD:
   A Service Classifier adds NSH.  NSH is removed by the last SFF in the
   service chain or by a SF that consumes the packet.

NEW:
   A Service Classifier adds NSH.  NSH is removed by the last SFF in the
   service chain or by an SF that consumes the packet.
                       ^^

* Section 3.1

(1)

OLD:=20
   Service Path Header: provide path identification and location within
   a service path.

NEW:
   Service Path Header: provides path identification and location within
                        ^^^^^^^^
   a service path.

(2)

OLD:
   Context header: carry metadata (i.e. context data) along a service
   path.

NEW:
   Context header: carries metadata (a.k.a., context data) along a service
                   ^^^^^^^^         ^^^^^^^^=20
   path.

* Section 3.2.

(1)
Add this text before Figure 2

NEW:
Figure 2 depicts the NSH base header:

(2)

OLD:
   Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
   going forward with future NSH updates.  It MUST be set to 0x0 by the
   sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the widespread
   implementation of existing hardware that uses the first nibble after
   an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this document
   reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in future
   versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
   discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.

NEW:
   Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
   going forward with future NSH specification updates.  It MUST be set to =
0x0 by the
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=20
   sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the widespread
   implementation of existing hardware that uses the first nibble after
   an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this document
   reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in future
   versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
   discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.

(3)

OLD:
   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
   a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
   packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM

NEW:
   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support SFC
                   ^^^^^^^^^^
   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
   a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
   packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM

(4)

OLD:
   All other flag fields are reserved for future use.  Reserved bits
   MUST be set to zero upon origination and MUST be preserved unmodified
   by other NSH supporting elements.  Elements which do not understand
   the meaning of any of these bits MUST not modify their actions based
   on those unknown bits.

NEW:
   All other flag fields are reserved for future use.  Reserved bits
   MUST be set to zero upon origination and MUST be preserved unmodified
   by other NSH supporting elements.  Elements which do not understand
   the meaning of any of these bits MUST NOT modify their actions based
                                         ^^^^
   on those unknown bits.

(5)

OLD:=20
   0x1 - which indicates that the format of the header includes a fixed
   length Context Header (see Figure 4 below).

NEW:
   0x1 - which indicates that the format of the header includes a fixed
   length Context Header (see Figure 4).

(6)

OLD:
   0x2 - which does not mandate any headers beyond the Base Header and
   Service Path Header, but may contain optional variable length Context
   Header(s).  The semantics of the variable length Context Header(s)
   are not defined in this document

NEW:
   0x2 - which does not mandate any headers beyond the Base Header and
   Service Path Header, but may contain optional variable length Context
   Header(s).  The semantics of the variable length Context Header(s)
   are not defined in this document.=20
                                   ^^
   A generic format of the variable length Context Header is provided in Se=
ction 3.5.1.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=
^^^^^^^^^^^^

(7)

OLD:
   NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D  0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where
   the length is of value 0x2). =20

NEW1:
   NSH implementations MUST support MD type 0x1 and MD Type 0x2 (where
   the length is of value 0x2). =20

Or=20
NEW2:
   NSH implementations MUST support MD type =3D 0x1 and MD Type =3D 0x2 (wh=
ere
   the length is of value 0x2). =20

(8)

OLD:
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see IANA Considerations section below.

NEW:
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see IANA Considerations (Section 12.2.5).

* Section 3.3:

(1)

Add this new text right before Figure 3:=20

NEW:
Figure 3 shows the format of the Service Path Header:

(2)

Add this NEW text right after Figure 3:

NEW:
The meaning of these fields is as follows:

(3)

OLD:
   SI is used in conjunction with Service Path Identifier for Service
   Function Path Selection and for determining the next SFF/SF in the
   path.  Service Index (SI) is also valuable when troubleshooting/
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   =20
   reporting service paths.  In addition to indicating the location
   within a Service Function Path, SI can be used for service plane loop
   detection.

NEW:
   SI is used in conjunction with Service Path Identifier for Service
   Function Path Selection and for determining the next SFF/SF in the
   path.  SI is also valuable when troubleshooting/
   reporting service paths.  In addition to indicating the location
   within a Service Function Path, SI can be used for service plane loop
   detection.

* Section 3.4:

OLD:=20
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |Ver|O|R|    TTL    |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |          Service Path Identifer               | Service Index |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                                                               |
    |                 Fixed Length Context Header                   |
    |                                                               |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

NEW:
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |Ver|O|R|    TTL    |   Length  |R|R|R|R|MD Type| Next Protocol |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |          Service Path Identifier               | Service Index |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                                                               |
    |                 Fixed Length Context Header                   |
    |                                                               |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

* Section 3.5: Figure 5 is not called in the text.=20

OLD:
   When the base header specifies MD Type=3D 0x2, zero or more Variable
   Length Context Headers MAY be added, immediately following the
   Service Path Header. =20

NEW:
   When the base header specifies MD Type=3D 0x2, zero or more Variable
   Length Context Headers MAY be added, immediately following the
   Service Path Header (Figure 5). =20

* Section 3.5.1:=20

(1)

OLD:
   Metadata Class (MD Class): The MD Class defines the scope of the
   'Type' field to provide a hierarchical namespace.  The IANA
   Considerations section defines how the MD Class values can be
   allocated to standards bodies, vendors, and others.

NEW:
   Metadata Class (MD Class): defines the scope of the
   'Type' field to provide a hierarchical namespace.  Section 12.2.4 define=
s how the MD Class values can be
   allocated to standards bodies, vendors, and others.

(2)

OLD:
   Length: Length of the variable metadata, in single byte words. =20
NEW:
   Length: indicates the length of the variable metadata, in single byte wo=
rds. =20

* Section 4

(1)

OLD:
These nodes have several possible header related
   actions:

NEW:
These nodes have several possible NSH-related
   actions:

(2)=20

(1)

OLD:
   1.  Insert or remove NSH: These actions can occur at the start and

NEW:
   1.  Insert or remove NSH: can occur at the start and

(2) a classifier is a function, so "logical classifier" sounds weird to me.

OLD:=20
       Multiple logical classifiers may exist within a given service
       path. =20
NEW:
       Multiple classifiers may exist within a given service
       path. =20

* Section 5: Not sure I would maintain this section. At least, the title sh=
ould be updated to reflect the few points that are cited. =20

OLD: 5.  NSH Encapsulations
NEW: 5.  NSH & Transport Encapsulations

* Section 7.1

(1)

OLD:=20
   As described above, NSH contains a Service Path Identifier (SPI) and
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   a Service Index (SI).  The SPI is, as per its name, an identifier.^
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   The SPI alone cannot be used to forward packets along a service path.
   Rather the SPI provide a level of indirection between the service
   path/topology and the network transport.  Furthermore, there is no^
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
   requirement, or expectation of an SPI being bound to a pre-determined
   or static network path.

NEW:
   The SPI alone cannot be used to forward packets along a service path.
   Rather the SPI provides a level of indirection between the service
                  ^^^^^^^^
   path and the network transport.  Furthermore, there is no
   requirement, or expectation of an SPI being bound to a pre-determined
   or static network path.

(2) Use consistent terminology:

OLD:=20

  This indirection --- path ID to overlay -- creates a true service
                       ^^^^^^^^
   plane.

NEW:
   This indirection --- SPI to overlay -- creates a true service
   plane.   =20

* Section 9:

Add this NEW text at the end of the 4th paragraph:

NEW:

Means to prevent leaking privacy-related information outside an administrat=
ive domain are supported by NSH given that the last SFF of a path will syst=
ematically remove the NSH header before forwarding a packet upstream.


Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel Halpern
> Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 3 juillet 2017 02:14
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
>=20
> Below is the announcement of -13 of the NSH document.
> To the best of the chairs and editors ability, this reflects all
> comments we have received, in accordance with the rough consensus of the
> WG as best the chairs were able to determine it.
>=20
> We think it is done.
> Please take a look.
>=20
> Our goal is to hand this document to the IESG by the IETF meeting.  As
> such, we would like all comments to be in by 14-July-2017.
>=20
> Yours,
> Joel and Jim
>=20
> PS: Unless someone objects, we will accept the OAM clarification Andy
> Malis sent to the list.
>=20
>=20
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 04:33:38 -0700
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> CC: sfc@ietf.org
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.
>=20
>          Title           : Network Service Header
>          Authors         : Paul Quinn
>                            Uri Elzur
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
> 	Pages           : 37
> 	Date            : 2017-06-30
>=20
> Abstract:
>     This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
>     packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
>     provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
>     service path.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
>     Service Function Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-03.txt
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:14:14 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 22:38:06 +0900
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Subject: [sfc] Request for Timeslot in SFC WG Meeting
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--94eb2c112f90d8deeb0553a63b8c
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Hi Jim and Joel,
This is Paul at Sungkyunkwan University (SKKU).
I am working for service function chaining of networked security services
in I2NSF WG.

I would like to get feedback and advice from SFC WG
to move our I2NSF work forward.

Could I present the following draft in SFC WG meeting in Prague?

Title: Service Function Chaining-Enabled I2NSF Architecture
Draft: draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03
Link: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03

- Presenters: Jaehoon Paul Jeong and Sangwon Hyun
- Time: 15 min

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul
-- 
===========================
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>

--94eb2c112f90d8deeb0553a63b8c
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Jim and Joel,</div><div>This is Paul at Sungkyunkw=
an University (SKKU).</div><div>I am working for service function chaining =
of networked security services in I2NSF WG.</div><div><br></div><div>I woul=
d like to get feedback and advice from SFC WG=C2=A0</div><div>to move our I=
2NSF work forward.</div><div><br></div><div>Could I present the following d=
raft in SFC WG meeting in Prague?</div><div><br></div><div>Title: Service F=
unction Chaining-Enabled I2NSF Architecture</div><div>Draft: draft-hyun-i2n=
sf-nsf-triggered-steering-03</div><div>Link:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03">https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03</a></div><div><br></d=
iv><div>- Presenters: Jaehoon Paul Jeong and Sangwon Hyun</div><div>- Time:=
 15 min</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Rega=
rds,</div><div>Paul</div><div>--=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_signatu=
re"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br=
>Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>Assistant Professor<br>Department of So=
ftware<br>Sungkyunkwan University<br>Office: +82-31-299-4957<br>Email: <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.=
com</a>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu" style=3D"font-size:12.8=
px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a><br>Personal Homepage: <a href=
=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php" target=3D"_blank">http=
://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</a><br></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div>
</div>

--94eb2c112f90d8deeb0553a63b8c--


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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: [sfc] NSH draft continuing progress
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At the request of the authors, we have added a third editor to the NSH 
document.  Carlos Pignataro will be joining Paul and Uri as editor.  he 
will be the pen holder for what we hope is the last round of WG changes, 
and then the process with the larger IETF and IESG.

Our thanks to Carlos for agreeing to help move this forward.

Yours,
Joel


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To: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "Fioccola Giuseppe (giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it)" <giuseppe.fioccola@telecomitalia.it>
References: <CA+RyBmVMN34DC49E01eCcLkSRjvCe4e43s6-rb7fZg4-AELJQg@mail.gmail.com> <624141DA-3092-4AF6-B103-1DA614701B10@cisco.com> <CABUE3X=R-+nRJ8hg8Za8Ps0_0QN0qczwJHKqvtdWtC+FRWNpJg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 19:13:16 +0100
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Use of Alternate Marking Method in SFC
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On 04/07/2017 08:02, Tal Mizrahi wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> My perspective regarding #1 (I can't claim to be impartial, since I am 
> taking part in both IOAM and Alternate Marking :) is that IOAM and 
> Alternate Marking are not competing technologies, but complementary 
> technologies. IOAM provides fine-grained measurement with per-packet 
> and per-hop information, but comes at the cost of extending the data 
> packets. Alternate Marking, on the other hand, provides very accurate 
> per-flow measurement, at the cost of 1 or 2 bits per packet. Based on 
> this tradeoff, some operators may choose to use IOAM, others may use 
> Alternate Marking, and some may use both.
>
> Cheers,
> Tal.
>

+1

Stewart


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References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <3bded8cb-af40-d7ae-96d5-64135b51aceb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmV38=-w78gsjro3zdndaMZ-+4hyyjR0KGnQR7q0jNBB2A@mail.gmail.com> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 19:07:16 -0700
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To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>,  "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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--001a11499c044efdbf0553b0b171
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Hi Jim,
I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his
clarification may be reflected in the document:
OLD:

   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).

NEW:

   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has
OAM payload immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when
the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet
format and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of
this specification (see [oam-frame]).

Regards,

Greg


On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard <
james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg/Carlos,
>
>
>
> It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual change is bein=
g
> proposed or if the current text is sufficient; please can you clarify for
> the WG and if a textual change is being proposed please clearly state wha=
t
> this is so that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.
>
>
>
> Many thanks!
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
> *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Andrew G. Malis <
> agmalis@gmail.com>; sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF
> 99 in Prague]
>
>
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version. And I
> think that if it was in the document as you have presented (or very close
> to it), it would address my concern, as you've provided clear and
> unambiguous definition of what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet
> that carries OAM information as payload that immediately follows the NSH.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy,
>
>
>
> I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more confusion
> that bring clarity.
>
>
>
> O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the payload is=
 an
> OAM packet.
>
>
>
> However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some Metadata can be
> OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent of a NULL payload =
as
> in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.
>
>
>
> A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.
>
>
>
> The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am not sure if we might =
be in
> diminishing return territory.
>
>
>
> (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the metadata
> independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does belong in
> other documents)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Joel,
>
>
>
> I would like to suggest changing:
>
>
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
>
>
> to:
>
>
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations,
> Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and
> processing
>
>    is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).
>
>
>
>
>
> The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the forma=
t of OAM
> information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or
> both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM =
packets=E2=80=9D per se,
> as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadata=
.
>
>
>
> If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should
> also be amended to:
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with th=
e
> O bit
>
>    set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
>    packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not
> support SFC OAM
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>    analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all
> OAM functions
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>    disabled by default.
>
>    The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST
> NOT be set for
>    packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along
> the SFP.
>
>
>
>
>
> Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=
=9D used in the document. The
> document should choose one.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> wrote:
>
> The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>
> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>    disabled by default.
>
>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
> This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set,
> and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at =
an
> NSH support entity.
>
> If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to
> improve it.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
> Hi Joel,
> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutions
> progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambiguo=
us
> term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>
>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>     protocol carried as metadata
>
> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
>
> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload.
> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of
> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>
>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>     document.
>
>     <chair hat on>
>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>     </chair hat on>
>     <chair hat off>
>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>     </chair hat off>
>
>     Yours,
>     Joel M. Halpern
>
>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines
>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>
>         Regards,
>         Greg
>
>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>
>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>
>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>         the WG to
>              take a last look.
>
>              Yours,
>              Joel
>
>
>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>                  Hi Joel,
>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>         draft? As I
>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         sfc mailing list
>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
>
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim,<div>I can give my interpretation of what Carlos ha=
d proposed and how his clarification may be reflected in the document:</div=
><div>OLD:</div><div><pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font=
-size:14px;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.2=
14;color:rgb(0,0,0);word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,253,245);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);border-radius:4px"><=
font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">   O bit: Setting this bit indic=
ates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).</font></pre></div><div><pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box=
;overflow:auto;font-size:14px;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.=
5px;line-height:1.214;color:rgb(0,0,0);word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break=
-word;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-radius:4px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">NEW:</font></=
pre><pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;font-size:14px;paddin=
g:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);border-radius:4px"><pre style=3D"box-=
sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:1=
0.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);border-radius:4px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif">   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administra=
tion, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM pay=
load immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload =
is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processin=
g of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [oam=
-frame]).</font></pre><pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;pad=
ding:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:=
break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);border-rad=
ius:4px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Regards,</font></pre><=
pre style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;overflow:auto;padding:10px;margin-top:0p=
x;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:bre=
ak-word;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);border-radius:4px"><font face=3D"=
arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></pre></div></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45=
 AM, James N Guichard <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guich=
ard@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span=
> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg/Carlos,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is difficult to tell from this thr=
ead whether a textual change is being proposed or if the current text is su=
fficient; please can you clarify for the WG and
 if a textual change is being proposed please clearly state what this is so=
 that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Many thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-2275042166924828125__MailEndCompose"><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;; Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IET=
F 99 in Prague]<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Carlos,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">you have valid interpretation of the text in its cur=
rent version. And I think that if it was in the document as you have presen=
ted (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you&#39;ve provi=
ded clear and unambiguous definition of
 what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information=
 as payload that immediately follows the NSH.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Andy, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually ca=
use more confusion that bring clarity.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1=
 means the payload is an OAM packet.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, this is independent of the Metadata, since =
some Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent=
 of a NULL payload as in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am =
not sure if we might be in diminishing return territory.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to t=
he metadata independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does be=
long in other documents)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">Carlos.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joel, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to suggest changing:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Setting this =
bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmai=
l-il">SFC</span>=C2=A0OAM messages is outside the scope of this specificati=
on (see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">to:</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Setting this =
bit indicates the presence of Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) information.=C2=A0 The actual OAM informatio=
n format and processing</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0is outs=
ide the scope of this specification (see=C2=A0 [oam-frame]).</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The reason for this =
change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the format of OAM information, =
and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or both.=C2=A0Thus, we=
 don=E2=80=99t yet even know if=C2=A0there will be=C2=A0=E2=80=9COAM packet=
s=E2=80=9D
 per se, as data packets=C2=A0could possibly also carry OAM=C2=A0informatio=
n in the metadata.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">If=C2=A0this change =
is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also be amended to:=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/=
<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</sp=
an>=C2=A0Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=C2=A0<span cla=
ss=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets=
 with the O bit</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0set unm=
odified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with the O bit set unmodified by=C2=A0<span class=3D"m=
_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>=C2=A0element=
s that do not support=C2=A0<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-457113161=
2281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>=C2=A0OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set f=
or all OAM functions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information a=
nd MUST NOT be set for=C2=A0<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets without OAM information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT be m=
odified along the SFP.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Finally, I=E2=80=99v=
e seen both=C2=A0=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the doc=
ument.=C2=A0The document should choose one.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Thanks,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Andy</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The definition of the O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 For=
warding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r>
<br>
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br>
<br>
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Joel,<br>
by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutio=
ns progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
>
=C2=A0 * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has d=
ependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But=
 clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit=
 are very much needed and will help
 to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.co=
m</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
mh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This=
 was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bi=
t and wording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned t=
hat NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@<wbr>joelhal=
pern.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_=
blank">jmh.direct@<wbr>joelhalpern.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@<wbr>joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>____________=
_____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc=
</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________=
<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=E2=80=94<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><b=
r>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11499c044efdbf0553b0b171--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is defined.
Isn't that where we are at?



David Dolson
Sandvine
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
To: Greg Mirsky
Cc: Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]


Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.

For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the following=
 text:

=93SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately following =
NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST =
be reset.=94

And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at least n=
on-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragraph below:

=93The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM pa=
ckets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.=94

I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are already=
 pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things like =93immed=
iately following=94 can be specified in the OAM document. As it is now, wha=
t O means is clear and aligns with what I wrote below.

Additionally, I=92d much rather not change the text that was worked through=
 iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up that sentence =
one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly clear:


    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
    [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).

+   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
+   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
+
    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
    disabled by default.

-   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
-   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
-

Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of not ove=
r specify but bring clarity.

Thanks,

=97 Carlos.


On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:greg=
imirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Jim,
I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his clarif=
ication may be reflected in the document:
OLD:

   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).

NEW:

   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM pay=
load immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload =
is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processin=
g of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [oam=
-frame]).

Regards,

Greg

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg/Carlos,

It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual change is being =
proposed or if the current text is sufficient; please can you clarify for t=
he WG and if a textual change is being proposed please clearly state what t=
his is so that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.

Many thanks!

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] On Beh=
alf Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
To: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.c=
om>>
Cc: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; Andr=
ew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>; sfc@ietf.org<mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]

Hi Carlos,
you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version. And I thi=
nk that if it was in the document as you have presented (or very close to i=
t), it would address my concern, as you've provided clear and unambiguous d=
efinition of what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM=
 information as payload that immediately follows the NSH.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco=
.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:
Hi Andy,

I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more confusion that=
 bring clarity.

O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the payload is a=
n OAM packet.

However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some Metadata can be OA=
M-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent of a NULL payload as i=
n Adrian=92s draft.

A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.

The text can always be polished more =97 I am not sure if we might be in di=
minishing return territory.

(I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the metadata independenc=
e of O for user packets, although maybe that does belong in other documents=
)

Thanks!

Carlos.

On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmal=
is@gmail.com>> wrote:

Joel,

I would like to suggest changing:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).

to:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations, Administratio=
n, and
   Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and pr=
ocessing
   is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).


The reason for this change is that we don=92t yet know if the format of OAM=
 information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or both.=
 Thus, we don=92t yet even know if there will be =93OAM packets=94 per se, =
as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadata.

If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also=
 be amended to:

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
   a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with the =
O bit
   set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
   packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not suppor=
t SFC OAM
   procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
   result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
   analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all OAM=
 functions
   prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
   disabled by default.

   The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST NO=
T be set for
   packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along t=
he SFP.


Finally, I=92ve seen both =93O bit=94 and O-bit=94 used in the document. Th=
e document should choose one.

Thanks,
Andy


On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
The definition of the O bit in the document is:

O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
   a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
   packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
   packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
   procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
   result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
   analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
   prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
   disabled by default.

   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.

This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.

If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
Hi Joel,
by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutions p=
rogress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambiguous =
term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:

  * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
  * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
  * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
    protocol carried as metadata

If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.

As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has depen=
dency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But cle=
ar and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit are=
 very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.

Regards,
Greg
On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.co=
m>>> wrote:

    Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
    document.

    <chair hat on>
    More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
    not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
    discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
    in -13 is the result of that discussion.
    </chair hat on>
    <chair hat off>
    Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
    document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
    (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
    proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
    ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
    </chair hat off>

    Yours,
    Joel M. Halpern

    On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:

        Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
        you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
        packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
        expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
        discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
        or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines
        interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
        points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
        information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
        believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
        definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
        problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.

        Regards,
        Greg

        On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
        <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> <mai=
lto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
        <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m>
        <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m>>>> wrote:

             The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
             That is what we will ask the WG to review.
             If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
        the WG to
             take a last look.

             Yours,
             Joel


             On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:

                 Hi Joel,
                 is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
        draft? As I
                 see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:




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=97
Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com>

=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself=
 sound more photosynthesis."




=97
Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com>

=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself=
 sound more photosynthesis."


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Practically, &quot;The O-bit MUST be zero.&quot; Until OAM for NSH is defin=
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Isn't that where we are at?</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"display:initial">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif=
,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255)">
David&nbsp;Dolson<br>
Sandvine</div>
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:white; border-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size:initial; text-align:initial; backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,22=
3); border-top-width:1pt; padding:3pt 0in 0in; font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha=
 Sans','Slate Pro'; font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Greg Mirsky</div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org; James N Gui=
chard</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting a=
t IETF 99 in Prague]</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(186,188,20=
9); border-top-width:1pt; font-size:initial; text-align:initial; background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition =
of the following text:
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">=93SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immedi=
ately following NSH.&nbsp;&nbsp;In all other cases, i.e. when the payload i=
s not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.=94</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at le=
ast non-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragraph be=
low:</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>=93The&nbsp;O-bit&nbsp;MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set=
 for non-OAM&nbsp;packets.&nbsp;&nbsp;The&nbsp;O-bit&nbsp;MUST NOT be modif=
ied along the SFP.=94</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are al=
ready pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things like =93=
immediately following=94 can be specified in the OAM document. As it is now=
, what O means is clear and aligns with
 what I wrote below.</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>Additionally, I=92d much rather not change the text that was worked th=
rough iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up that sent=
ence one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly clear:</di=
v>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Ad=
ministration, and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) packet.&nbsp;&nbsp;The actual packet f=
ormat and processing of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specificat=
ion (see<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;<br class=3D"">
&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT b=
e set for non-OAM<br class=3D"">
&#43;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets.&nbsp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified a=
long the SFP.<br class=3D"">
&#43;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not s=
upport SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, bu=
t MAY support<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received S=
FC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.&nbs=
p;&nbsp;Forwarding OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support S=
FC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functio=
ns, but can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is rec=
ommended to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all O=
AM functions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;prior to enabling this behavior.&nbsp;&nbsp;The configur=
able parameter MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;disabled by default.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;<br class=3D"">
-&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be se=
t for non-OAM<br class=3D"">
-&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets.&nbsp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along=
 the SFP.<br class=3D"">
-<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of no=
t over specify but bring clarity.</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>=97 Carlos.</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" class=3D"">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
/div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">Hi Jim,
<div class=3D"">I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed an=
d how his clarification may be reflected in the document:</div>
<div class=3D"">OLD:</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; font-size:14px; padding:10px; margi=
n-top:0px; margin-bottom:10.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-all; w=
ord-wrap:break-word; background-color:rgb(255,253,245); border:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">   O=
 bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).</font></pre>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; font-size:14px; padding:10px; margi=
n-top:0px; margin-bottom:10.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-all; w=
ord-wrap:break-word; background-color:rgb(255,253,245); border:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">NEW:=
</font></pre>
<pre class=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; font-size:14px; padding:10px; margi=
n-top:0px; margin-bottom:10.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-all; w=
ord-wrap:break-word; background-color:rgb(255,253,245); border:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204)"><pre class=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; padding:10px; margi=
n-top:0px; margin-bottom:10.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-all; w=
ord-wrap:break-word; border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial=
, helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an=
 Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM pay=
load immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload =
is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processin=
g of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [oam=
-frame]).</font></pre><pre class=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; padding:10px;=
 margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:10.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-=
all; word-wrap:break-word; border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D=
"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" class=3D"">Regards,</font></pre><pre class=
=3D"" style=3D"overflow:auto; padding:10px; margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:1=
0.5px; line-height:1.214; word-break:break-all; word-wrap:break-word; borde=
r:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" c=
lass=3D"">Greg</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard=
 <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank" class=
=3D"">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d">Hi Greg/Carlos,<u class=
=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;=
<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d">It is difficult to tell =
from this thread whether a textual change is being proposed or if the curre=
nt text is sufficient; please can you clarify for
 the WG and if a textual change is being proposed please clearly state what=
 this is so that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.<u class=3D"">=
</u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;=
<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d">Many thanks!<u class=3D"=
"></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;=
<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d">Jim<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-2275042166924828125__MailEndCompose" c=
lass=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif; color:#1f497d"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""=
></u></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b class=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span cla=
ss=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-ser=
if"> sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b class=3D"">On Behalf Of </b>Greg Mirsky<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpi=
gnata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br=
 class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Cc:</b> Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern=
.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;; Andrew G. M=
alis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">=
agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</=
a><br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Mee=
ting at IETF 99 in Prague]<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Carlos,<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">you have valid interpretation of the text in its cur=
rent version. And I think that if it was in the document as you have presen=
ted (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you've provided =
clear and unambiguous definition of
 what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information=
 as payload that immediately follows the NSH.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D"=
"></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" class=
=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u>=
</p>
<blockquote class=3D"" style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0p=
t; padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Andy, <u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually ca=
use more confusion that bring clarity.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u><=
/p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1=
 means the payload is an OAM packet.&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, this is independent of the Metadata, since =
some Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent=
 of a NULL payload as in Adrian=92s draft.<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.=
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The text can always be polished more =97 I am not su=
re if we might be in diminishing return territory.<u class=3D""></u><u clas=
s=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to t=
he metadata independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does be=
long in other documents)<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"color:#888888"><u class=3D=
""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"color:#888888">Carlos.<u c=
lass=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"" style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">agmalis@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joel, <u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to suggest changing:<u class=3D""></u><=
u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Se=
tting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) packet.&nbsp; The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmai=
l-il">SFC</span>&nbsp;OAM messages is outside the scope of this specificati=
on (see<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;[oam-frame]).</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">to:</span=
><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Se=
tting this bit indicates the presence of Operations, Administration, and<br=
 class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) information.&nbsp; The actual OAM informatio=
n format and processing</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp; &n=
bsp;is outside the scope of this specification (see&nbsp; [oam-frame]).</sp=
an><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The reaso=
n for this change is that we don=92t yet know if the format of OAM informat=
ion, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or both.&nbsp;Thu=
s, we don=92t yet even know if&nbsp;there will be&nbsp;=93OAM
 packets=94 per se, as data packets&nbsp;could possibly also carry OAM&nbsp=
;information in the metadata.</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p=
>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">If&nbsp;t=
his change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also be =
amended to:</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp; &n=
bsp;SF/SFF/<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-=
il">SFC</span>&nbsp;Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support&nbs=
p;<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</=
span><br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY =
support<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets=
 with the O bit</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp; &n=
bsp;set unmodified to the next element in the chain.&nbsp; Forwarding<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;packets with the O bit set unmodified by&nbsp;<span class=3D"m=
_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>&nbsp;element=
s that do not support&nbsp;<span class=3D"m_-2275042166924828125m-457113161=
2281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>&nbsp;OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set f=
or all OAM functions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;prior to enabling this behavior.&nbsp; The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;disabled by default.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information a=
nd MUST NOT be set for&nbsp;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;packets without OAM information.&nbsp; The O bit MUST NOT be m=
odified along the SFP.</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Finally, =
I=92ve seen both&nbsp;=93O bit=94 and O-bit=94 used in the document.&nbsp;T=
he document should choose one.</span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></=
p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Thanks,</=
span><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Andy</spa=
n><u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh@joe=
lhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<blockquote class=3D"" style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0p=
t; padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The definition of the O bit in the document is:<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) packet.&nbsp; The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;[oam-frame]).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.&nbsp; For=
warding OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;prior to enabling this behavior.&nbsp; The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;disabled by default.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp;packets.&nbsp; The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Yours,<br class=3D"">
Joel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></=
p>
<blockquote class=3D"" style=3D"border:none; border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0p=
t; padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Joel,<br class=3D"=
">
by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutions p=
rogress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambiguous =
term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp; * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
 class=3D"">
&nbsp; * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; protocol carried as metadata<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has depen=
dency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But cle=
ar and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit are=
 very much needed and will help
 to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Regards,<br class=3D"">
Greg<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh@joe=
lhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=
=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D""=
>
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; document.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.&nbsp; This=
 was<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; (such as in-situ, etc.)&nbsp; I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; proposals, with new behaviors.&nbsp; That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Yours,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; Joel M. Halpern<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wo=
rding on OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that =
NSH refers to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regards,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Greg<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">j=
mh.direct@<wbr class=3D"">joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<u class=3D""></u><u class=
=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_=
blank" class=3D"">jmh.direct@<wbr class=3D"">joelhalpern.com</a><br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">jmh.direct@<wbr class=3D"">joelhalpe=
rn.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the WG to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;take a last look.<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Yours,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Joel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Hi Joel,<br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft? As I<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ______________________________<wbr class=3D"">_=
________________<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr class=3D"">listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr c=
lass=3D"">listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<u class=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br class=3D"">
______________________________<wbr class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D=
"">
sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</=
a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank" cla=
ss=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr class=3D"">listinfo/sfc</a><u cla=
ss=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr class=3D"">______=
___________<br class=3D"">
sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</=
a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank" cla=
ss=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr class=3D"">listinfo/sfc</a><u cla=
ss=3D""></u><u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"">=97<u class=3D""></u><u =
class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"" style=3D"">Carlos Pignataro,&nbsp;<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">carlos@cisc=
o.com</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<i class=3D"">=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, =
to make myself sound more&nbsp;photosynthesis.&quot;</i><u class=3D""></u><=
u class=3D""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u class=3D""></u>&nbsp;<u class=3D""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
=97</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">carlo=
s@cisco.com</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<i class=3D"">=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, =
to make myself sound more&nbsp;photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
CC: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 03:24:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <3bded8cb-af40-d7ae-96d5-64135b51aceb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmV38=-w78gsjro3zdndaMZ-+4hyyjR0KGnQR7q0jNBB2A@mail.gmail.com> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/smLoTe3mOBMd3P301HborlDLCDQ>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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The current text says rather more than just "the O bit must be zero". 
It prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH devices for 
processing packets where the O bit is set.  Which we were specifically 
asked to provide.

Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document not 
specify where the OAM information is carried.  While some folks have 
assumptions about where the information will reside, we have not agreed 
on that.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> Correct practically â€” zero for user packets.
> 
> And I believe thatâ€™s what this says (using more words):
> 
>      O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>      Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>      SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>      [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
> 
>      The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>      packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> â€” Carlos.
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com 
>> <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is defined.
>> Isn't that where we are at?
>>
>>
>>
>> David Dolson
>> Sandvine
>> *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>> *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
>> *To: *Greg Mirsky
>> *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org 
>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>; James N Guichard
>> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at 
>> IETF 99 in Prague]
>>
>>
>> Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
>>
>> For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the 
>> following text:
>>
>> â€œSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately 
>> following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM, 
>> the O-bit MUST be reset.â€
>>
>> And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at 
>> least non-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one 
>> paragraph below:
>>
>> â€œThe O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for 
>> non-OAM packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.â€
>>
>> I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are 
>> already pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things 
>> like â€œimmediately followingâ€ can be specified in the OAM document. As 
>> it is now, what O means is clear and aligns with what I wrote below.
>>
>> Additionally, Iâ€™d much rather not change the text that was worked 
>> through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up 
>> that sentence one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it 
>> explicitly clear:
>>
>>
>>     O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>>     SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>     [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>>
>> +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>> +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>> +
>>     SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>     OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>>     a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>>     packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>     packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>>     procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>     result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>     analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>>     prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>>     disabled by default.
>>
>> -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>> -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>> -
>>
>> Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of 
>> not over specify but bring clarity.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> â€” Carlos.
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>> I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his 
>>> clarification may be reflected in the document:
>>> OLD:
>>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and 
>>> Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual packet format and processing of 
>>> SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see 
>>> [oam-frame]).
>>> NEW:
>>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and 
>>> Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM 
>>> payload immediately following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the 
>>> payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format 
>>> and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this 
>>> specification (see [oam-frame]).
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard 
>>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi Greg/Carlos,____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual change
>>>     is being proposed or if the current text is sufficient; please
>>>     can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change is being
>>>     proposed please clearly state what this is so that the WG can
>>>     evaluate and we can move forward.____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     Many thanks!____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     Jim____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
>>>     *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com
>>>     <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>
>>>     *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>>     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting
>>>     at IETF 99 in Prague]____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     Hi Carlos,____
>>>
>>>     you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version.
>>>     And I think that if it was in the document as you have presented
>>>     (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you've
>>>     provided clear and unambiguous definition of what considered as
>>>     OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information as
>>>     payload that immediately follows the NSH.____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     Regards,____
>>>
>>>     Greg____
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>>>     <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:____
>>>
>>>         Hi Andy, ____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more
>>>         confusion that bring clarity.____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         O=0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=1 means the
>>>         payload is an OAM packet. ____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some
>>>         Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also
>>>         independent of a NULL payload as in Adrianâ€™s draft.____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=0.____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         The text can always be polished more â€” I am not sure if we
>>>         might be in diminishing return territory.____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the
>>>         metadata independence of O for user packets, although maybe
>>>         that does belong in other documents)____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         Thanks!____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         Carlos.____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>             On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis
>>>             <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             Joel, ____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             I would like to suggest changing:____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>>>             Administration, and
>>>                Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format
>>>             and processing of
>>>             SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>>>             specification (see
>>>                [oam-frame]).____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             to:____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of
>>>             Operations, Administration, and
>>>                Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM
>>>             information format and processing____
>>>
>>>                is outside the scope of this specification (see 
>>>             [oam-frame]).____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             The reason for this change is that we donâ€™t yet know if
>>>             the format of OAM information, and whether it will be in
>>>             metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus, we donâ€™t yet
>>>             even know if there will be â€œOAM packetsâ€ per se, as data
>>>             packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the
>>>             metadata.____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             If this change is acceptable, then the following two
>>>             paragraphs should also be amended to:____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>                SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not
>>>             support SFC
>>>                OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set,
>>>             but MAY support
>>>                a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received
>>>             packets with the O bit____
>>>
>>>                set unmodified to the next element in the chain. 
>>>             Forwarding
>>>                packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements
>>>             that do not support SFC OAM
>>>                procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>>>             functions, but can
>>>                result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is
>>>             recommended to
>>>                analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O
>>>             bit set for all OAM functions
>>>                prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>>>             parameter MUST be
>>>                disabled by default.
>>>
>>>                The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM
>>>             information and MUST NOT be set for
>>>                packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT
>>>             be modified along the SFP.____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             Finally, Iâ€™ve seen both â€œO bitâ€ and O-bitâ€ used in the
>>>             document. The document should choose one.____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             Thanks,____
>>>
>>>             Andy____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern
>>>             <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:____
>>>
>>>                 The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>>>
>>>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>>>                 Administration, and
>>>                    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet
>>>                 format and processing of
>>>                    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>>>                 specification (see
>>>                    [oam-frame]).
>>>
>>>                    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do
>>>                 not support SFC
>>>                    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit
>>>                 set, but MAY support
>>>                    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding
>>>                 received SFC OAM
>>>                    packets unmodified to the next element in the
>>>                 chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>>                    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not
>>>                 support SFC OAM
>>>                    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>>>                 functions, but can
>>>                    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it
>>>                 is recommended to
>>>                    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for
>>>                 all OAM functions
>>>                    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>>>                 parameter MUST be
>>>                    disabled by default.
>>>
>>>                    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT
>>>                 be set for non-OAM
>>>                    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the
>>>                 SFP.
>>>
>>>                 This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the
>>>                 bit is to be set, and what handling is required when
>>>                 packets with this bit are received at an NSH support
>>>                 entity.
>>>
>>>                 If you consider this wording unclear, please propose
>>>                 specific text to improve it.
>>>
>>>                 Yours,
>>>                 Joel
>>>
>>>                 On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:____
>>>
>>>                     Hi Joel,
>>>                     by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document
>>>                     until SFC OAM solutions progress. But NSH refers
>>>                     to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too
>>>                     ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>>>
>>>                       * control message of active SFC OAM protocol
>>>                     carried as payload;
>>>                       * control message of active SFC OAM protocol
>>>                     carried as metadata;
>>>                       * control information and/or measurement
>>>                     results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>>                         protocol carried as metadata
>>>
>>>                     If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps
>>>                     all the OAM related discussion as well as
>>>                     allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
>>>
>>>                     As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note
>>>                     that none of them has dependency on where OAM
>>>                     information must be placed, metadata or payload.
>>>                     But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM
>>>                     packet and interpretation of O-bit are very much
>>>                     needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>>>
>>>                     Regards,
>>>                     Greg____
>>>
>>>                     On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern
>>>                     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>>>                     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>>                     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         Greg, the editors are working on the revision
>>>                     of the OAM Framework
>>>                         document.
>>>
>>>                         <chair hat on>
>>>                         More importantly, we have been careful that
>>>                     the NSH document does
>>>                         not normatively depend upon the OAM
>>>                     specification.  This was
>>>                         discussed with the working group several
>>>                     times, and the OAM wording
>>>                         in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>>                         </chair hat on>
>>>                         <chair hat off>
>>>                         Are you really asking that we hold up RFC
>>>                     publication of the NSH
>>>                         document until we have agreement on all of
>>>                     the complex OAM issues
>>>                         (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady
>>>                     rate of new OAM
>>>                         proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to
>>>                     indicate that such
>>>                         ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>>                         </chair hat off>
>>>
>>>                         Yours,
>>>                         Joel M. Halpern
>>>
>>>                         On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>                             Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>>                             you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit
>>>                     and wording on OAM
>>>                             packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned
>>>                     that NSH refers to
>>>                             expired and, frankly, stalled document
>>>                     that had not been
>>>                             discussed for too long. I believe the NSH
>>>                     document should have
>>>                             or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM
>>>                     packet before it defines
>>>                             interpretation of O-bit flag.
>>>                     draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>>>                             points that in current form O-bit
>>>                     indicates presence of OAM
>>>                             information which can be either as
>>>                     metadata or as payload. I
>>>                             believe that we must have more clear and
>>>                     deterministic
>>>                             definition of OAM packet as current, in
>>>                     my opinion, may cause
>>>                             problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>>
>>>                             Regards,
>>>                             Greg
>>>
>>>                             On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel
>>>                     Halpern Direct
>>>                             <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>____
>>>
>>>                             <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>                             <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                                  The -13 will be out in a few days
>>>                     with all the changes.
>>>                                  That is what we will ask the WG to
>>>                     review.
>>>                                  If we already had it out, we would
>>>                     have already asked for
>>>                             the WG to
>>>                                  take a last look.
>>>
>>>                                  Yours,
>>>                                  Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>                                  On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>
>>>                                      Hi Joel,
>>>                                      is the -12 the latest published
>>>                     version of the NSH
>>>                             draft? As I
>>>                                      see, it is missing TTL and all
>>>                     related changes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                            
>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>                             sfc mailing list
>>>                     sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>                     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>>>                     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>                     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>>                            
>>>                     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>                     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>
>>>
>>>                     ____
>>>
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 sfc mailing list
>>>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>____
>>>
>>>             __ __
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             sfc mailing list
>>>             sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>             <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>         â€”____
>>>
>>>         Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>>>
>>>         /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand,
>>>         to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____
>>>
>>>         __ __
>>>
>>>     __ __
>>>
>>>
>>
>> â€”
>> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>>
>> /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make 
>> myself sound more photosynthesis."/
>>
> 
> â€”
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
> 
> /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make 
> myself sound more photosynthesis."/
> 


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References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <3bded8cb-af40-d7ae-96d5-64135b51aceb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmV38=-w78gsjro3zdndaMZ-+4hyyjR0KGnQR7q0jNBB2A@mail.gmail.com> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 20:53:07 -0700
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>,  James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Hi Carlos,
thank you for clarification. Andy and I had pointed that the NSH document
doesn't provide definition of OAM packet and thus use of O-bit is unclear.
In your earlier mail you've mentioned that SFC OAM packet is the packet
with OAM payload (that could be control message or measurement results). If
you believe that the current wording on O-bit should not be changed to
provide the definition of SFC OAM packet, then I support adoption of the
text proposed by Andy Malis.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Correct practically =E2=80=94 zero for user packets.
>
> And I believe that=E2=80=99s what this says (using more words):
>
>     O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>     SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>     [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>
>     The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>     packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>
> On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com> wrote:
>
> Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is defined.
> Isn't that where we are at?
>
>
>
> David Dolson
> Sandvine
> *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
> *To: *Greg Mirsky
> *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org; James N Guichard
> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF
> 99 in Prague]
>
> Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
>
> For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the
> following text:
>
> =E2=80=9CSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately fo=
llowing
> NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUS=
T
> be reset.=E2=80=9D
>
> And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at least
> non-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragraph belo=
w:
>
> =E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for
> non-OAM packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.=E2=80=9D
>
> I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are
> already pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things like
> =E2=80=9Cimmediately following=E2=80=9D can be specified in the OAM docum=
ent. As it is now,
> what O means is clear and aligns with what I wrote below.
>
> Additionally, I=E2=80=99d much rather not change the text that was worked=
 through
> iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up that sentence
> one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly clear:
>
>
>     O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>     SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>     [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>
> +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
> +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
> +
>     SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>     OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>     a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>     packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>     packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>     procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>     result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>     analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>     prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>     disabled by default.
>
> -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
> -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
> -
>
> Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of not
> over specify but bring clarity.
>
> Thanks,
>
> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
> I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his
> clarification may be reflected in the document:
> OLD:
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame]).
>
> NEW:
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM p=
ayload immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payloa=
d is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and process=
ing of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [o=
am-frame]).
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@huawei.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg/Carlos,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual change is
>> being proposed or if the current text is sufficient; please can you clar=
ify
>> for the WG and if a textual change is being proposed please clearly stat=
e
>> what this is so that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
>> *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com>
>> *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Andrew G. Malis <
>> agmalis@gmail.com>; sfc@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF
>> 99 in Prague]
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version. And I
>> think that if it was in the document as you have presented (or very clos=
e
>> to it), it would address my concern, as you've provided clear and
>> unambiguous definition of what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet
>> that carries OAM information as payload that immediately follows the NSH=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
>> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more confusion
>> that bring clarity.
>>
>>
>>
>> O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the payload i=
s an
>> OAM packet.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some Metadata can be
>> OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent of a NULL payload=
 as
>> in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.
>>
>>
>>
>> A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.
>>
>>
>>
>> The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am not sure if we might=
 be in
>> diminishing return territory.
>>
>>
>>
>> (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the metadata
>> independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does belong in
>> other documents)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Joel,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to suggest changing:
>>
>>
>>
>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>    [oam-frame]).
>>
>>
>>
>> to:
>>
>>
>>
>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of Operations,
>> Administration, and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM information format and
>> processing
>>
>>    is outside the scope of this specification (see  [oam-frame]).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the form=
at of OAM
>> information, and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or
>> both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM=
 packets=E2=80=9D per se,
>> as data packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the metadat=
a.
>>
>>
>>
>> If this change is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should
>> also be amended to:
>>
>>
>>
>>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets with
>> the O bit
>>
>>    set unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding
>>    packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements that do not
>> support SFC OAM
>>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>    analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set for all
>> OAM functions
>>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>>    disabled by default.
>>
>>    The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information and MUST
>> NOT be set for
>>    packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified alon=
g
>> the SFP.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=
=9D used in the document. The
>> document should choose one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>>
>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>    [oam-frame]).
>>
>>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>>    disabled by default.
>>
>>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>
>> This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set,
>> and what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at=
 an
>> NSH support entity.
>>
>> If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to
>> improve it.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>> Hi Joel,
>> by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solution=
s
>> progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous
>> term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:
>>
>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;
>>   * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;
>>   * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>     protocol carried as metadata
>>
>> If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related
>> discussion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
>>
>> As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note that none of them has
>> dependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload.
>> But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of
>> O-bit are very much needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Framework
>>     document.
>>
>>     <chair hat on>
>>     More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document does
>>     not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.  This was
>>     discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM wording
>>     in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>     </chair hat on>
>>     <chair hat off>
>>     Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the NSH
>>     document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM issues
>>     (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady rate of new OAM
>>     proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to indicate that such
>>     ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>     </chair hat off>
>>
>>     Yours,
>>     Joel M. Halpern
>>
>>     On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>         you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit and wording on OAM
>>         packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned that NSH refers to
>>         expired and, frankly, stalled document that had not been
>>         discussed for too long. I believe the NSH document should have
>>         or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet before it defines
>>         interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>>         points that in current form O-bit indicates presence of OAM
>>         information which can be either as metadata or as payload. I
>>         believe that we must have more clear and deterministic
>>         definition of OAM packet as current, in my opinion, may cause
>>         problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>         Greg
>>
>>         On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern Direct
>>         <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>
>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>         <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>              The -13 will be out in a few days with all the changes.
>>              That is what we will ask the WG to review.
>>              If we already had it out, we would have already asked for
>>         the WG to
>>              take a last look.
>>
>>              Yours,
>>              Joel
>>
>>
>>              On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>
>>                  Hi Joel,
>>                  is the -12 the latest published version of the NSH
>>         draft? As I
>>                  see, it is missing TTL and all related changes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         sfc mailing list
>>         sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>>
>>
>> =E2=80=94
>>
>> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>>
>> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to m=
ake
>> myself sound more photosynthesis."*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Carlos,<div>thank you for clarification. Andy and I had=
 pointed that the NSH document doesn&#39;t provide definition of OAM packet=
 and thus use of O-bit is unclear. In your earlier mail you&#39;ve mentione=
d that SFC OAM packet is the packet with OAM payload (that could be control=
 message or measurement results). If you believe that the current wording o=
n O-bit should not be changed to provide the definition of SFC OAM packet, =
then I support adoption of the text proposed by Andy Malis.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Carlos Pignatar=
o (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Correct practically =E2=80=94 zero for user packets.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I believe that=E2=80=99s what this says (using more words):</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span class=3D"">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Op=
erations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and =
processing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (=
see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).<br>
=C2=A0<br></span><span class=3D"">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for=
 non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<=
br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson=
@sandvine.com" target=3D"_blank">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate P=
ro&#39;,sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Practically, &quot;The O-bit MUST be zero.&quot; Until OAM for NSH is defin=
ed.</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate P=
ro&#39;,sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Isn&#39;t that where we are at?</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate P=
ro&#39;,sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate P=
ro&#39;,sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate P=
ro&#39;,sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"display:initial">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,&#39;Slate Pro&#39;,san=
s-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color=
:rgb(255,255,255)">
David=C2=A0Dolson<br>
Sandvine</div>
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:white;border-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223=
);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,&#39;BB Alpha=
 Sans&#39;,&#39;Slate Pro&#39;;font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Greg Mirsky</div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc@ietf.org</a>; James N Guichard</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting a=
t IETF 99 in Prague]</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(186,188,209=
);border-top-width:1pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the foll=
owing text:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=E2=80=9CSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately=
 following NSH.=C2=A0=C2=A0In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not=
 OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.=E2=80=9D</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at le=
ast non-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragraph be=
low:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=E2=80=9CThe=C2=A0O-bit=C2=A0MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT =
be set for non-OAM=C2=A0packets.=C2=A0=C2=A0The=C2=A0O-bit=C2=A0<wbr>MUST N=
OT be modified along the SFP.=E2=80=9D</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are al=
ready pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things like =E2=
=80=9Cimmediately following=E2=80=9D can be specified in the OAM document. =
As it is now, what O means is clear and
 aligns with what I wrote below.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Additionally, I=E2=80=99d much rather not change the text that was wor=
ked through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up tha=
t sentence one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly clea=
r:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Ad=
ministration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0=C2=A0The actual packet f=
ormat and processing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specificat=
ion (see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0[I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]<wbr>).<br>
=C2=A0<br>
+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be se=
t for non-OAM<br>
+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0packets.=C2=A0=C2=A0The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along=
 the SFP.<br>
+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not s=
upport SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, bu=
t MAY support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received S=
FC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0Forwarding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support S=
FC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functio=
ns, but can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is rec=
ommended to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all O=
AM functions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0=C2=A0The configur=
able parameter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
=C2=A0<br>
-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be se=
t for non-OAM<br>
-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0packets.=C2=A0=C2=A0The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along=
 the SFP.<br>
-<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of no=
t over specify but bring clarity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>=E2=80=94 Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimi=
rsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div=
>
<br class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Jim,
<div>I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his c=
larification may be reflected in the document:</div>
<div>OLD:</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"overflow:auto;font-size:14px;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wor=
d;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><fon=
t face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">   O bit: Setting this bit indicate=
s an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
   SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame]).</font></pre>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"overflow:auto;font-size:14px;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wor=
d;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><fon=
t face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">NEW:</font></pre>
<pre style=3D"overflow:auto;font-size:14px;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-wor=
d;background-color:rgb(255,253,245);border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><pre=
 style=3D"overflow:auto;padding:10px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.5px;li=
ne-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:break-word;border:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">   O bit: Set=
ting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM pay=
load immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload =
is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processin=
g of SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [oam=
-frame]).</font></pre><pre style=3D"overflow:auto;padding:10px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;word-wrap:br=
eak-word;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif">Regards,</font></pre><pre style=3D"overflow:auto;padding:10px;=
margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:10.5px;line-height:1.214;word-break:break-all;=
word-wrap:break-word;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><font face=3D"arial=
, helvetica, sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></pre>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard=
 <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.=
n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904m_-2275042166924828125WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi Greg/Carlos,<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is difficult to tell from this thr=
ead whether a textual change is being proposed or if the current text is su=
fficient; please can you clarify for
 the WG and if a textual change is being proposed please clearly state what=
 this is so that the WG can evaluate and we can move forward.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Many thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"m_-1860844093095844904_m_-227504216692482=
8125__MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;; Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IET=
F 99 in Prague]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Carlos,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">you have valid interpretation of the text in its cur=
rent version. And I think that if it was in the document as you have presen=
ted (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you&#39;ve provi=
ded clear and unambiguous definition of
 what considered as OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information=
 as payload that immediately follows the NSH.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Andy, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually ca=
use more confusion that bring clarity.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1=
 means the payload is an OAM packet.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, this is independent of the Metadata, since =
some Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also independent=
 of a NULL payload as in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am =
not sure if we might be in diminishing return territory.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to t=
he metadata independence of O for user packets, although maybe that does be=
long in other documents)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">Carlos.<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joel, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would like to suggest changing:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Setting this =
bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0<span class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904m_-2275042166924828125m-4=
571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>=C2=A0OAM messages is outside the sco=
pe of this specification (see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">to:</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">O bit: Setting this =
bit indicates the presence of Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) information.=C2=A0 The actual OAM informatio=
n format and processing</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0is outs=
ide the scope of this specification (see=C2=A0 [oam-frame]).</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The reason for this =
change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet know if the format of OAM information, =
and whether it will be in metadata, packet contents, or both.=C2=A0Thus, we=
 don=E2=80=99t yet even know if=C2=A0there will be=C2=A0=E2=80=9COAM
 packets=E2=80=9D per se, as data packets=C2=A0could possibly also carry OA=
M=C2=A0information in the metadata.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">If=C2=A0this change =
is acceptable, then the following two paragraphs should also be amended to:=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/=
<span class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904m_-2275042166924828125m-45711316122812=
47743gmail-il">SFC</span>=C2=A0Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not =
support=C2=A0<span class=3D"m_-1860844093095844904m_-2275042166924828125m-4=
571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received packets=
 with the O bit</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0set unm=
odified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with the O bit set unmodified by=C2=A0<span class=3D"m=
_-1860844093095844904m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">S=
FC</span>=C2=A0elements that do not support=C2=A0<span class=3D"m_-18608440=
93095844904m_-2275042166924828125m-4571131612281247743gmail-il">SFC</span>=
=C2=A0OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O bit set f=
or all OAM functions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM information a=
nd MUST NOT be set for=C2=A0<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets without OAM information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT be m=
odified along the SFP.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Finally, I=E2=80=99v=
e seen both=C2=A0=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the doc=
ument.=C2=A0The document should choose one.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Thanks,</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Andy</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The definition of the O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and p=
rocessing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (s=
ee<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support=
 SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY =
support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 For=
warding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, bu=
t can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommend=
ed to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fun=
ctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable parame=
ter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<b=
r>
<br>
This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the bit is to be set, and=
 what handling is required when packets with this bit are received at an NS=
H support entity.<br>
<br>
If you consider this wording unclear, please propose specific text to impro=
ve it.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Joel,<br>
by all means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document until SFC OAM solutio=
ns progress. But NSH refers to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too ambigu=
ous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as payload;<br>
=C2=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol carried as metadata;<br=
>
=C2=A0 * control information and/or measurement results of hybrid SFC OAM<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps all the OAM related discus=
sion as well as allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note that none of them has d=
ependency on where OAM information must be placed, metadata or payload. But=
 clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM packet and interpretation of O-bit=
 are very much needed and will help
 to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.co=
m</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">j=
mh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision of the OAM Fram=
ework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that the NSH document =
does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM specification.=C2=A0 This=
 was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several times, and the OAM w=
ording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC publication of the =
NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of the complex OAM is=
sues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady rate of new =
OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to indicate t=
hat such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bi=
t and wording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned t=
hat NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document that had=
 not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM packet =
before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag. draft-farrel-sfc-=
convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit indicates pre=
sence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as metadata or =
as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and determ=
inistic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in my opin=
ion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel Halpern D=
irect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<=
wbr>.com</a>&gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_=
blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a fe=
w days with all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask th=
e WG to review.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, w=
e would have already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mi=
rsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 th=
e latest published version of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is mi=
ssing TTL and all related changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ______________________________<wbr>____________=
_____<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc=
</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________=
<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=E2=80=94<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlo=
s@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113c25cad9a2320553b22b52--


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References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <3bded8cb-af40-d7ae-96d5-64135b51aceb@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmV38=-w78gsjro3zdndaMZ-+4hyyjR0KGnQR7q0jNBB2A@mail.gmail.com> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com> <5850a958-1720-4ce1-a840-0af018bd6fca@joelhalpern.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 20:59:10 -0700
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>,  "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>,  James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Hi Joel,
considering that we have active and hybrid OAM mechanisms under discussion,
the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet must be, in my view, in the NSH
document. I, for one, will support the definition of SFC OAM packet as
active OAM packet that is specifically generated for OAM purpose and whose
scope is limited by the SFC domain.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote=
:

> The current text says rather more than just "the O bit must be zero". It
> prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH devices for
> processing packets where the O bit is set.  Which we were specifically
> asked to provide.
>
> Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document not
> specify where the OAM information is carried.  While some folks have
> assumptions about where the information will reside, we have not agreed o=
n
> that.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
> On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
>
>> Correct practically =E2=80=94 zero for user packets.
>>
>> And I believe that=E2=80=99s what this says (using more words):
>>
>>      O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, an=
d
>>      Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing =
of
>>      SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>      [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>>
>>      The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-O=
AM
>>      packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>>
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:
>>> ddolson@sandvine.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is defined.
>>> Isn't that where we are at?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Dolson
>>> Sandvine
>>> *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>>> *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
>>> *To: *Greg Mirsky
>>> *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:
>>> sfc@ietf.org>; James N Guichard
>>> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF
>>> 99 in Prague]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
>>>
>>> For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the
>>> following text:
>>>
>>> =E2=80=9CSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately =
following
>>> NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM, the O-bit M=
UST
>>> be reset.=E2=80=9D
>>>
>>> And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at
>>> least non-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragr=
aph
>>> below:
>>>
>>> =E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for =
non-OAM
>>> packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.=E2=80=9D
>>>
>>> I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are
>>> already pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things li=
ke
>>> =E2=80=9Cimmediately following=E2=80=9D can be specified in the OAM doc=
ument. As it is now,
>>> what O means is clear and aligns with what I wrote below.
>>>
>>> Additionally, I=E2=80=99d much rather not change the text that was work=
ed
>>> through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up tha=
t
>>> sentence one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly cl=
ear:
>>>
>>>
>>>     O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, an=
d
>>>     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing =
of
>>>     SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>>     [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>>>
>>> +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-O=
AM
>>> +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>> +
>>>     SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>>>     OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY suppo=
rt
>>>     a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>>>     packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OA=
M
>>>     packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>>>     procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>>>     result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>>>     analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM function=
s
>>>     prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST b=
e
>>>     disabled by default.
>>>
>>> -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-O=
AM
>>> -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>>> -
>>>
>>> Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of not
>>> over specify but bring clarity.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> =E2=80=94 Carlos.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto=
:
>>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>> I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his
>>>> clarification may be reflected in the document:
>>>> OLD:
>>>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>>> Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual packet format and processing of S=
FC
>>>> OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-fram=
e]).
>>>> NEW:
>>>> O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>>>> Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM pa=
yload
>>>> immediately following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload i=
s not
>>>> OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processing =
of
>>>> SFC OAM messages are outside the scope of this specification (see
>>>> [oam-frame]).
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard <
>>>> james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Greg/Carlos,____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual change
>>>>     is being proposed or if the current text is sufficient; please
>>>>     can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change is being
>>>>     proposed please clearly state what this is so that the WG can
>>>>     evaluate and we can move forward.____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     Many thanks!____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     Jim____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>     <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
>>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
>>>>     *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <cpignata@cisco.com
>>>>     <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>
>>>>     *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>>>     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>; Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>>     *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting
>>>>     at IETF 99 in Prague]____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Carlos,____
>>>>
>>>>     you have valid interpretation of the text in its current version.
>>>>     And I think that if it was in the document as you have presented
>>>>     (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you've
>>>>     provided clear and unambiguous definition of what considered as
>>>>     OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information as
>>>>     payload that immediately follows the NSH.____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     Regards,____
>>>>
>>>>     Greg____
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>     On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>>>>     <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>> wrote:____
>>>>
>>>>         Hi Andy, ____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         I believe that s/packet/information/ can actually cause more
>>>>         confusion that bring clarity.____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. O=3D1 means the
>>>>         payload is an OAM packet. ____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         However, this is independent of the Metadata, since some
>>>>         Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And this is also
>>>>         independent of a NULL payload as in Adrian=E2=80=99s draft.___=
_
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=3D0.____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 I am not sure i=
f we
>>>>         might be in diminishing return territory.____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks to the
>>>>         metadata independence of O for user packets, although maybe
>>>>         that does belong in other documents)____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks!____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         Carlos.____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>             On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis
>>>>             <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>> wrote:____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             Joel, ____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             I would like to suggest changing:____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>>>>             Administration, and
>>>>                Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format
>>>>             and processing of
>>>>             SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>>>>             specification (see
>>>>                [oam-frame]).____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             to:____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             O bit: Setting this bit indicates the presence of
>>>>             Operations, Administration, and
>>>>                Maintenance (OAM) information.  The actual OAM
>>>>             information format and processing____
>>>>
>>>>                is outside the scope of this specification (see
>>>>    [oam-frame]).____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             The reason for this change is that we don=E2=80=99t yet kn=
ow if
>>>>             the format of OAM information, and whether it will be in
>>>>             metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t=
 yet
>>>>             even know if there will be =E2=80=9COAM packets=E2=80=9D p=
er se, as data
>>>>             packets could possibly also carry OAM information in the
>>>>             metadata.____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             If this change is acceptable, then the following two
>>>>             paragraphs should also be amended to:____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>                SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not
>>>>             support SFC
>>>>                OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set,
>>>>             but MAY support
>>>>                a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received
>>>>             packets with the O bit____
>>>>
>>>>                set unmodified to the next element in the chain.
>>>>      Forwarding
>>>>                packets with the O bit set unmodified by SFC elements
>>>>             that do not support SFC OAM
>>>>                procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>>>>             functions, but can
>>>>                result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is
>>>>             recommended to
>>>>                analyze the impact of forwarding a packet with the O
>>>>             bit set for all OAM functions
>>>>                prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>>>>             parameter MUST be
>>>>                disabled by default.
>>>>
>>>>                The O bit MUST be set for packets containing OAM
>>>>             information and MUST NOT be set for
>>>>                packets without OAM information.  The O bit MUST NOT
>>>>             be modified along the SFP.____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D an=
d O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the
>>>>             document. The document should choose one.____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             Thanks,____
>>>>
>>>>             Andy____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern
>>>>             <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>>>> wrote:____
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 The definition of the O bit in the document is:
>>>>
>>>>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>>>>                 Administration, and
>>>>                    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet
>>>>                 format and processing of
>>>>                    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>>>>                 specification (see
>>>>                    [oam-frame]).
>>>>
>>>>                    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do
>>>>                 not support SFC
>>>>                    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit
>>>>                 set, but MAY support
>>>>                    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding
>>>>                 received SFC OAM
>>>>                    packets unmodified to the next element in the
>>>>                 chain.  Forwarding OAM
>>>>                    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not
>>>>                 support SFC OAM
>>>>                    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>>>>                 functions, but can
>>>>                    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it
>>>>                 is recommended to
>>>>                    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for
>>>>                 all OAM functions
>>>>                    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>>>>                 parameter MUST be
>>>>                    disabled by default.
>>>>
>>>>                    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT
>>>>                 be set for non-OAM
>>>>                    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the
>>>>                 SFP.
>>>>
>>>>                 This seems to me a VERY clear description of when the
>>>>                 bit is to be set, and what handling is required when
>>>>                 packets with this bit are received at an NSH support
>>>>                 entity.
>>>>
>>>>                 If you consider this wording unclear, please propose
>>>>                 specific text to improve it.
>>>>
>>>>                 Yours,
>>>>                 Joel
>>>>
>>>>                 On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:____
>>>>
>>>>                     Hi Joel,
>>>>                     by all means, I'm not asking to hold NSH document
>>>>                     until SFC OAM solutions progress. But NSH refers
>>>>                     to OAM packet and, in my view, it is too
>>>>                     ambiguous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be=
:
>>>>
>>>>                       * control message of active SFC OAM protocol
>>>>                     carried as payload;
>>>>                       * control message of active SFC OAM protocol
>>>>                     carried as metadata;
>>>>                       * control information and/or measurement
>>>>                     results of hybrid SFC OAM
>>>>                         protocol carried as metadata
>>>>
>>>>                     If work on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps
>>>>                     all the OAM related discussion as well as
>>>>                     allocation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.
>>>>
>>>>                     As co-author of several SFC OAM drafts I'd note
>>>>                     that none of them has dependency on where OAM
>>>>                     information must be placed, metadata or payload.
>>>>                     But clear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM
>>>>                     packet and interpretation of O-bit are very much
>>>>                     needed and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions=
.
>>>>
>>>>                     Regards,
>>>>                     Greg____
>>>>
>>>>                     On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern
>>>>                     <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>>>>
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         Greg, the editors are working on the revision
>>>>                     of the OAM Framework
>>>>                         document.
>>>>
>>>>                         <chair hat on>
>>>>                         More importantly, we have been careful that
>>>>                     the NSH document does
>>>>                         not normatively depend upon the OAM
>>>>                     specification.  This was
>>>>                         discussed with the working group several
>>>>                     times, and the OAM wording
>>>>                         in -13 is the result of that discussion.
>>>>                         </chair hat on>
>>>>                         <chair hat off>
>>>>                         Are you really asking that we hold up RFC
>>>>                     publication of the NSH
>>>>                         document until we have agreement on all of
>>>>                     the complex OAM issues
>>>>                         (such as in-situ, etc.)  I observe a steady
>>>>                     rate of new OAM
>>>>                         proposals, with new behaviors.  That seems to
>>>>                     indicate that such
>>>>                         ahold-up would be almost indefinite.
>>>>                         </chair hat off>
>>>>
>>>>                         Yours,
>>>>                         Joel M. Halpern
>>>>
>>>>                         On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                             Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>>>>                             you'd expect that I'll look into OAM bit
>>>>                     and wording on OAM
>>>>                             packet first. And so I had. I'm concerned
>>>>                     that NSH refers to
>>>>                             expired and, frankly, stalled document
>>>>                     that had not been
>>>>                             discussed for too long. I believe the NSH
>>>>                     document should have
>>>>                             or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM
>>>>                     packet before it defines
>>>>                             interpretation of O-bit flag.
>>>>                     draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>>>>                             points that in current form O-bit
>>>>                     indicates presence of OAM
>>>>                             information which can be either as
>>>>                     metadata or as payload. I
>>>>                             believe that we must have more clear and
>>>>                     deterministic
>>>>                             definition of OAM packet as current, in
>>>>                     my opinion, may cause
>>>>                             problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.
>>>>
>>>>                             Regards,
>>>>                             Greg
>>>>
>>>>                             On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel
>>>>                     Halpern Direct
>>>>                             <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>____
>>>>
>>>>                             <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>>>>                             <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>>>>                     <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                                  The -13 will be out in a few days
>>>>                     with all the changes.
>>>>                                  That is what we will ask the WG to
>>>>                     review.
>>>>                                  If we already had it out, we would
>>>>                     have already asked for
>>>>                             the WG to
>>>>                                  take a last look.
>>>>
>>>>                                  Yours,
>>>>                                  Joel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                                  On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote=
:
>>>>
>>>>                                      Hi Joel,
>>>>                                      is the -12 the latest published
>>>>                     version of the NSH
>>>>                             draft? As I
>>>>                                      see, it is missing TTL and all
>>>>                     related changes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>                             sfc mailing list
>>>>                     sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>>                     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>>>>                     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>>                     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>>>>                                                <https://www.ietf.org/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>>                     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>
>>>>
>>>>                     ____
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 sfc mailing list
>>>>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>____
>>>>
>>>>             __ __
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             sfc mailing list
>>>>             sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>>>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>>>             <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>         =E2=80=94____
>>>>
>>>>         Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>>>>
>>>>         /=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully unders=
tand,
>>>>         to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____
>>>>
>>>>         __ __
>>>>
>>>>     __ __
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> =E2=80=94
>>> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>>>
>>> /=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to =
make
>>> myself sound more photosynthesis."/
>>>
>>>
>> =E2=80=94
>> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>>
>> /=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to m=
ake
>> myself sound more photosynthesis."/
>>
>>

--94eb2c07684a78871c0553b24114
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Joel,<div>considering that we have active and hybrid OA=
M mechanisms under discussion, the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet =
must be, in my view, in the NSH document. I, for one, will support the defi=
nition of SFC OAM packet as active OAM packet that is specifically generate=
d for OAM purpose and whose scope is limited by the SFC domain.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Hal=
pern <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D=
"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex">The current text says rather more than just &quot;the O bit must =
be zero&quot;. It prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH dev=
ices for processing packets where the O bit is set.=C2=A0 Which we were spe=
cifically asked to provide.<br>
<br>
Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document not spe=
cify where the OAM information is carried.=C2=A0 While some folks have assu=
mptions about where the information will reside, we have not agreed on that=
.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
Correct practically =E2=80=94 zero for user packets.<br>
<br>
And I believe that=E2=80=99s what this says (using more words):<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Admini=
stration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet forma=
t and processing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specifica=
tion (see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework])<wbr>.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be s=
et for non-OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the=
 SFP.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
=E2=80=94 Carlos.<br>
<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sand=
vine.com" target=3D"_blank">ddolson@sandvine.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" target=3D"_blank">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt;=
&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Practically, &quot;The O-bit MUST be zero.&quot; Until OAM for NSH is defin=
ed.<br>
Isn&#39;t that where we are at?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
David Dolson<br>
Sandvine<br></span>
*From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
*Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM<br>
*To: *Greg Mirsky<br>
*Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;; James N Guichard<br>
*Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 =
in Prague]<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.<br>
<br>
For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition of the following=
 text:<br>
<br>
=E2=80=9CSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately foll=
owing NSH.=C2=A0 In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM, the =
O-bit MUST be reset.=E2=80=9D<br>
<br>
And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially useful or at least n=
on-harmful addition, very similar text already exists one paragraph below:<=
br>
<br>
=E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-=
OAM packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.=E2=80=9D<b=
r>
<br>
I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since we are already=
 pointing to a spec that would detail this processing. Things like =E2=80=
=9Cimmediately following=E2=80=9D can be specified in the OAM document. As =
it is now, what O means is clear and aligns with what I wrote below.<br>
<br>
Additionally, I=E2=80=99d much rather not change the text that was worked t=
hrough iterations and consensus. However, I suggest we can move up that sen=
tence one paragraph up to improve the flow and make it explicitly clear:<br=
>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administrati=
on, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and =
processing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (=
see<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).<br>
<br>
+=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for=
 non-OAM<br>
+=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<=
br>
+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not suppor=
t SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY=
 support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OA=
M<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.=C2=A0 Fo=
rwarding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OA=
M<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, b=
ut can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommen=
ded to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM fu=
nctions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 prior to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable param=
eter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 disabled by default.<br>
<br>
-=C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for=
 non-OAM<br>
-=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<=
br>
-<br>
<br>
Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right balance of not ove=
r specify but bring clarity.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
=E2=80=94 Carlos.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<wbr>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi Jim,<br>
I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed and how his clarif=
ication may be reflected in the document:<br>
OLD:<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and Mainte=
nance (OAM) packet. The actual packet format and processing of SFC OAM mess=
ages is outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).<br>
NEW:<br>
O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and Mainte=
nance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload immed=
iately following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload is not OAM,=
 the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet format and processing of SFC OA=
M messages are outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).<b=
r>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br></span>
On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jame=
s.n.guichard@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a> =
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>james.n.guichard@huawe<wbr>i.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Greg/Carlos,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a textual ch=
ange<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is being proposed or if the current text is sufficient; pleas=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change is being<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 proposed please clearly state what this is so that the WG can=
<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 evaluate and we can move forward.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Many thanks!____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jim____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *From:*sfc [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpign=
ata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_=
blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;; Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeti=
ng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 at IETF 99 in Prague]____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Carlos,____<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you have valid interpretation of the text in its current vers=
ion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 And I think that if it was in the document as you have presen=
ted<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (or very close to it), it would address my concern, as you&#3=
9;ve<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provided clear and unambiguous definition of what considered =
as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM information as<br=
></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 payload that immediately follows the NSH.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<b=
r></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">c=
pignata@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Andy, ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I believe that s/packet/information/ can actual=
ly cause more<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 confusion that bring clarity.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet. =
O=3D1 means the<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payload is an OAM packet. ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, this is independent of the Metadata, s=
ince some<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And t=
his is also<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 independent of a NULL payload as in Adrian=E2=
=80=99s draft.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have O=
=3D0.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The text can always be polished more =E2=80=94 =
I am not sure if we<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 might be in diminishing return territory.____<b=
r>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks=
 to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 metadata independence of O for user packets, al=
though maybe<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that does belong in other documents)____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks!____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Carlos.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andre=
w G. Malis<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:=
____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel, ____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I would like to suggest changing:=
____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates=
 an Operations,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Administration, and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) pa=
cket.=C2=A0 The actual packet format<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and processing of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SFC OAM messages is outside the s=
cope of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specification (see<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-frame]).____<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to:____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates=
 the presence of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Operations, Administration, and<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) in=
formation.=C2=A0 The actual OAM<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information format and processing=
____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is outside the scope=
 of this specification (see=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
[oam-frame]).____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The reason for this change is tha=
t we don=E2=80=99t yet know if<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the format of OAM information, an=
d whether it will be in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 metadata, packet contents, or bot=
h. Thus, we don=E2=80=99t yet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 even know if there will be =E2=80=
=9COAM packets=E2=80=9D per se, as data<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets could possibly also carry=
 OAM information in the<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 metadata.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If this change is acceptable, the=
n the following two<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 paragraphs should also be amended=
 to:____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Cla=
ssifer implementations that do not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM procedures SHOUL=
D discard packets with O bit set,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 but MAY support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a configurable param=
eter to enable forwarding received<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets with the O bit____<span c=
lass=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0set unmodified to th=
e next element in the chain.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0Forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets with the O b=
it set unmodified by SFC elements<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that do not support SFC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0procedures may be ac=
ceptable for a subset of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 functions, but can<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0result in unexpected=
 outcomes for others, thus it is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 recommended to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0analyze the impact o=
f forwarding a packet with the O<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit set for all OAM functions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prior to enabling th=
is behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parameter MUST be<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0disabled by default.=
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The O bit MUST be se=
t for packets containing OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information and MUST NOT be set f=
or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packets without OAM =
information.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST NOT<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be modified along the SFP.____<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Finally, I=E2=80=99ve seen both =
=E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and O-bit=E2=80=9D used in the<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 document. The document should cho=
ose one.____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks,____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andy____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, J=
oel M. Halpern<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhal=
pern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt=
; wrote:____<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The definition of t=
he O bit in the document is:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 O bit: Setting this=
 bit indicates an Operations,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Administration, and=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mainte=
nance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 format and processi=
ng of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC OA=
M messages is outside the scope of this<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specification (see<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[oam-f=
rame]).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF=
/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not support SFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM pr=
ocedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 set, but MAY suppor=
t<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a conf=
igurable parameter to enable forwarding<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 received SFC OAM<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet=
s unmodified to the next element in the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 chain.=C2=A0 Forwar=
ding OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet=
s unmodified by SFC elements that do not<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 support SFC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0proced=
ures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 functions, but can<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0result=
 in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is recommended to<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0analyz=
e the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all OAM functions<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0prior =
to enabling this behavior.=C2=A0 The configurable<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 parameter MUST be<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0disabl=
ed by default.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The O-=
bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be set for non-OAM<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0packet=
s.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 SFP.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This seems to me a =
VERY clear description of when the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bit is to be set, a=
nd what handling is required when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets with this b=
it are received at an NSH support<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 entity.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If you consider thi=
s wording unclear, please propose<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 specific text to im=
prove it.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Joel<br>
<br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, =
Greg Mirsky wrote:____<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Jo=
el,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by al=
l means, I&#39;m not asking to hold NSH document<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 until=
 SFC OAM solutions progress. But NSH refers<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to OA=
M packet and, in my view, it is too<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ambig=
uous term. Please consider, OAM packet may be:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 carri=
ed as payload;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 * control message of active SFC OAM protocol<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 carri=
ed as metadata;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 * control information and/or measurement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 resul=
ts of hybrid SFC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 protocol carried as metadata<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If wo=
rk on OAM framework is progressing, perhaps<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 all t=
he OAM related discussion as well as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 alloc=
ation of the O-bit itself can be moved there.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As co=
-author of several SFC OAM drafts I&#39;d note<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that =
none of them has dependency on where OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 infor=
mation must be placed, metadata or payload.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 But c=
lear and unambiguous definitionsof OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packe=
t and interpretation of O-bit are very much<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 neede=
d and will help to progress SFC OAM solutions.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regar=
ds,<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg_=
___<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Sa=
t, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Joel M. Halpern<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalpern.com=
</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jm=
h@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalp=
ern.com</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joelhalp=
ern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Greg, the editors are working on the revision<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of th=
e OAM Framework<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 document.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 More importantly, we have been careful that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the N=
SH document does<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 not normatively depend upon the OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 speci=
fication.=C2=A0 This was<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 discussed with the working group several<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 times=
, and the OAM wording<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 in -13 is the result of that discussion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;chair hat off&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Are you really asking that we hold up RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publi=
cation of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 document until we have agreement on all of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the c=
omplex OAM issues<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 (such as in-situ, etc.)=C2=A0 I observe a steady<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 rate =
of new OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 proposals, with new behaviors.=C2=A0 That seems to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 indic=
ate that such<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 ahold-up would be almost indefinite.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 Joel M. Halpern<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you&#39;d expect that I&#39;ll look into OAM bit<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and w=
ording on OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet first. And so I had. I&#39;m concerned<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that =
NSH refers to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expired and, frankly, stalled document<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that =
had not been<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussed for too long. I believe the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 docum=
ent should have<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or refer to clear definition of SFC OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packe=
t before it defines<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 interpretation of O-bit flag.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft=
-farrel-sfc-convent correctly<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 points that in current form O-bit<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 indic=
ates presence of OAM<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information which can be either as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 metad=
ata or as payload. I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 believe that we must have more clear and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 deter=
ministic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 definition of OAM packet as current, in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my op=
inion, may cause<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 problems for HW-based SFC OAM support.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regards,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Joel<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Halpe=
rn Direct<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.d=
irect@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.d=
irect@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><br></div></div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.d=
irect@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;____<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalper=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.d=
irect@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalper=
n.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.direct@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh.d=
irect@joelhalpern<wbr>.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The -13 will be out in a few d=
ays<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with =
all the changes.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0That is what we will ask the W=
G to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 revie=
w.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If we already had it out, we w=
ould<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have =
already asked for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the WG to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0take a last look.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yours,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 6/29/17 7:21 PM, Greg Mirsk=
y wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Joel,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is the -12 the l=
atest published<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 versi=
on of the NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft? As I<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0see, it is missi=
ng TTL and all<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 relat=
ed changes:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_____________________________<wbr>__________________<br=
>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sfc mailing list<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></s=
pan>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;m=
ailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &l=
t;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/sfc</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &lt;<=
a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
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<br>
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" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m=
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rg/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br></span>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=94____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Carlos Pignataro, <a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do n=
ot fully understand,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;=
/____<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 __ __<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
=E2=80=94<br>
Carlos Pignataro, <a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">car=
los@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
/=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make=
 myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;/<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
=E2=80=94<br>
Carlos Pignataro, <a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">car=
los@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<br>
/=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make=
 myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;/<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c07684a78871c0553b24114--


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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com> <5850a958-1720-4ce1-a840-0af018bd6fca@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmW_QP3KEGtvurZ6jCOh7vvYL3xr-dCcc2cgDbUD8jNi-w@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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<all of the below without WG chair hat>
I would have to see specific text.  I am personally not happy with the 
wording you suggested recently that an OAM packet is one where the OAM 
payload follows the NSH header.

The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it 
is required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it 
what extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. 
And by keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we 
address various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for 
the different situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired 
behavior.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/6/17 11:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> considering that we have active and hybrid OAM mechanisms under 
> discussion, the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet must be, in my 
> view, in the NSH document. I, for one, will support the definition of 
> SFC OAM packet as active OAM packet that is specifically generated for 
> OAM purpose and whose scope is limited by the SFC domain.
> 
> Regards,
> Greg
> 
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
> 
>     The current text says rather more than just "the O bit must be
>     zero". It prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH
>     devices for processing packets where the O bit is set.  Which we
>     were specifically asked to provide.
> 
>     Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document
>     not specify where the OAM information is carried.  While some folks
>     have assumptions about where the information will reside, we have
>     not agreed on that.
> 
>     Yours,
>     Joel
> 
>     On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> 
>         Correct practically â€” zero for user packets.
> 
>         And I believe thatâ€™s what this says (using more words):
> 
>               O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>         Administration, and
>               Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
>         processing of
>               SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>         specification (see
>               [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
> 
>               The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
>         for non-OAM
>               packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
> 
> 
>         Thanks,
> 
>         â€” Carlos.
> 
>             On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson
>             <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>
>             <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>>
>             wrote:
> 
>             Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is
>             defined.
>             Isn't that where we are at?
> 
> 
> 
>             David Dolson
>             Sandvine
>             *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>             *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
>             *To: *Greg Mirsky
>             *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org
>             <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>             <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>; James N Guichard
>             *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was:
>             Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
> 
> 
> 
>             Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
> 
>             For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition
>             of the following text:
> 
>             â€œSFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload
>             immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when
>             the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.â€
> 
>             And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially
>             useful or at least non-harmful addition, very similar text
>             already exists one paragraph below:
> 
>             â€œThe O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
>             for non-OAM packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along
>             the SFP.â€
> 
>             I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since
>             we are already pointing to a spec that would detail this
>             processing. Things like â€œimmediately followingâ€ can be
>             specified in the OAM document. As it is now, what O means is
>             clear and aligns with what I wrote below.
> 
>             Additionally, Iâ€™d much rather not change the text that was
>             worked through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest
>             we can move up that sentence one paragraph up to improve the
>             flow and make it explicitly clear:
> 
> 
>                  O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>             Administration, and
>                  Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
>             processing of
>                  SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>             specification (see
>                  [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
> 
>             +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>             set for non-OAM
>             +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>             +
>                  SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not
>             support SFC
>                  OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set,
>             but MAY support
>                  a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received
>             SFC OAM
>                  packets unmodified to the next element in the chain. 
>             Forwarding OAM
>                  packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support
>             SFC OAM
>                  procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>             functions, but can
>                  result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is
>             recommended to
>                  analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all
>             OAM functions
>                  prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>             parameter MUST be
>                  disabled by default.
> 
>             -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>             set for non-OAM
>             -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>             -
> 
>             Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right
>             balance of not over specify but bring clarity.
> 
>             Thanks,
> 
>             â€” Carlos.
> 
> 
>                 On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky
>                 <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> 
>                 Hi Jim,
>                 I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed
>                 and how his clarification may be reflected in the document:
>                 OLD:
>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>                 Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual
>                 packet format and processing of SFC OAM messages is
>                 outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).
>                 NEW:
>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>                 Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM
>                 packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately
>                 following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload
>                 is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet
>                 format and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside
>                 the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).
>                 Regards,
>                 Greg
> 
>                 On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard
>                 <james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>> wrote:
> 
>                      Hi Greg/Carlos,____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a
>                 textual change
>                      is being proposed or if the current text is
>                 sufficient; please
>                      can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change
>                 is being
>                      proposed please clearly state what this is so that
>                 the WG can
>                      evaluate and we can move forward.____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      Many thanks!____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      Jim____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>
>                      <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
>                      *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
>                      *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>                 <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>
>                      <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
>                      *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>; Andrew G. Malis
>                 <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>
>                      <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>>; sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                      *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh
>                 [Was: Meeting
>                      at IETF 99 in Prague]____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      Hi Carlos,____
> 
>                      you have valid interpretation of the text in its
>                 current version.
>                      And I think that if it was in the document as you
>                 have presented
>                      (or very close to it), it would address my concern,
>                 as you've
>                      provided clear and unambiguous definition of what
>                 considered as
>                      OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM
>                 information as
>                      payload that immediately follows the NSH.____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      Regards,____
> 
>                      Greg____
> 
>                      __ __
> 
>                      On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro
>                 (cpignata)
>                      <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>
>                 <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
>                 wrote:____
> 
>                          Hi Andy, ____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          I believe that s/packet/information/ can
>                 actually cause more
>                          confusion that bring clarity.____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          O=0 means that the payload is a user packet.
>                 O=1 means the
>                          payload is an OAM packet. ____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          However, this is independent of the Metadata,
>                 since some
>                          Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And
>                 this is also
>                          independent of a NULL payload as in Adrianâ€™s
>                 draft.____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have
>                 O=0.____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          The text can always be polished more â€” I am not
>                 sure if we
>                          might be in diminishing return territory.____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks
>                 to the
>                          metadata independence of O for user packets,
>                 although maybe
>                          that does belong in other documents)____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          Thanks!____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          Carlos.____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                              On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis
>                              <agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>> wrote:____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              Joel, ____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              I would like to suggest changing:____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
>                 Operations,
>                              Administration, and
>                                 Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual
>                 packet format
>                              and processing of
>                              SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>                              specification (see
>                                 [oam-frame]).____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              to:____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              O bit: Setting this bit indicates the
>                 presence of
>                              Operations, Administration, and
>                                 Maintenance (OAM) information.  The
>                 actual OAM
>                              information format and processing____
> 
>                                 is outside the scope of this
>                 specification (see             [oam-frame]).____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              The reason for this change is that we donâ€™t
>                 yet know if
>                              the format of OAM information, and whether
>                 it will be in
>                              metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus,
>                 we donâ€™t yet
>                              even know if there will be â€œOAM packetsâ€
>                 per se, as data
>                              packets could possibly also carry OAM
>                 information in the
>                              metadata.____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              If this change is acceptable, then the
>                 following two
>                              paragraphs should also be amended to:____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                                 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
>                 implementations that do not
>                              support SFC
>                                 OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets
>                 with O bit set,
>                              but MAY support
>                                 a configurable parameter to enable
>                 forwarding received
>                              packets with the O bit____
> 
>                                 set unmodified to the next element in
>                 the chain.             Forwarding
>                                 packets with the O bit set unmodified by
>                 SFC elements
>                              that do not support SFC OAM
>                                 procedures may be acceptable for a
>                 subset of OAM
>                              functions, but can
>                                 result in unexpected outcomes for
>                 others, thus it is
>                              recommended to
>                                 analyze the impact of forwarding a
>                 packet with the O
>                              bit set for all OAM functions
>                                 prior to enabling this behavior.  The
>                 configurable
>                              parameter MUST be
>                                 disabled by default.
> 
>                                 The O bit MUST be set for packets
>                 containing OAM
>                              information and MUST NOT be set for
>                                 packets without OAM information.  The O
>                 bit MUST NOT
>                              be modified along the SFP.____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              Finally, Iâ€™ve seen both â€œO bitâ€ and O-bitâ€
>                 used in the
>                              document. The document should choose one.____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              Thanks,____
> 
>                              Andy____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern
>                              <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:____
> 
> 
>                                  The definition of the O bit in the
>                 document is:
> 
>                                  O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
>                 Operations,
>                                  Administration, and
>                                     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The
>                 actual packet
>                                  format and processing of
>                                     SFC OAM messages is outside the
>                 scope of this
>                                  specification (see
>                                     [oam-frame]).
> 
>                                     SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
>                 implementations that do
>                                  not support SFC
>                                     OAM procedures SHOULD discard
>                 packets with O-bit
>                                  set, but MAY support
>                                     a configurable parameter to enable
>                 forwarding
>                                  received SFC OAM
>                                     packets unmodified to the next
>                 element in the
>                                  chain.  Forwarding OAM
>                                     packets unmodified by SFC elements
>                 that do not
>                                  support SFC OAM
>                                     procedures may be acceptable for a
>                 subset of OAM
>                                  functions, but can
>                                     result in unexpected outcomes for
>                 others, thus it
>                                  is recommended to
>                                     analyze the impact of forwarding an
>                 OAM packet for
>                                  all OAM functions
>                                     prior to enabling this behavior. 
>                 The configurable
>                                  parameter MUST be
>                                     disabled by default.
> 
>                                     The O-bit MUST be set for OAM
>                 packets and MUST NOT
>                                  be set for non-OAM
>                                     packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be
>                 modified along the
>                                  SFP.
> 
>                                  This seems to me a VERY clear
>                 description of when the
>                                  bit is to be set, and what handling is
>                 required when
>                                  packets with this bit are received at
>                 an NSH support
>                                  entity.
> 
>                                  If you consider this wording unclear,
>                 please propose
>                                  specific text to improve it.
> 
>                                  Yours,
>                                  Joel
> 
>                                  On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:____
> 
>                                      Hi Joel,
>                                      by all means, I'm not asking to
>                 hold NSH document
>                                      until SFC OAM solutions progress.
>                 But NSH refers
>                                      to OAM packet and, in my view, it
>                 is too
>                                      ambiguous term. Please consider,
>                 OAM packet may be:
> 
>                                        * control message of active SFC
>                 OAM protocol
>                                      carried as payload;
>                                        * control message of active SFC
>                 OAM protocol
>                                      carried as metadata;
>                                        * control information and/or
>                 measurement
>                                      results of hybrid SFC OAM
>                                          protocol carried as metadata
> 
>                                      If work on OAM framework is
>                 progressing, perhaps
>                                      all the OAM related discussion as
>                 well as
>                                      allocation of the O-bit itself can
>                 be moved there.
> 
>                                      As co-author of several SFC OAM
>                 drafts I'd note
>                                      that none of them has dependency on
>                 where OAM
>                                      information must be placed,
>                 metadata or payload.
>                                      But clear and unambiguous
>                 definitionsof OAM
>                                      packet and interpretation of O-bit
>                 are very much
>                                      needed and will help to progress
>                 SFC OAM solutions.
> 
>                                      Regards,
>                                      Greg____
> 
>                                      On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM,
>                 Joel M. Halpern
>                                      <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>                                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
> 
>                                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:
> 
>                                          Greg, the editors are working
>                 on the revision
>                                      of the OAM Framework
>                                          document.
> 
>                                          <chair hat on>
>                                          More importantly, we have been
>                 careful that
>                                      the NSH document does
>                                          not normatively depend upon the OAM
>                                      specification.  This was
>                                          discussed with the working
>                 group several
>                                      times, and the OAM wording
>                                          in -13 is the result of that
>                 discussion.
>                                          </chair hat on>
>                                          <chair hat off>
>                                          Are you really asking that we
>                 hold up RFC
>                                      publication of the NSH
>                                          document until we have
>                 agreement on all of
>                                      the complex OAM issues
>                                          (such as in-situ, etc.)  I
>                 observe a steady
>                                      rate of new OAM
>                                          proposals, with new behaviors. 
>                 That seems to
>                                      indicate that such
>                                          ahold-up would be almost
>                 indefinite.
>                                          </chair hat off>
> 
>                                          Yours,
>                                          Joel M. Halpern
> 
>                                          On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky
>                 wrote:
> 
>                                              Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>                                              you'd expect that I'll look
>                 into OAM bit
>                                      and wording on OAM
>                                              packet first. And so I had.
>                 I'm concerned
>                                      that NSH refers to
>                                              expired and, frankly,
>                 stalled document
>                                      that had not been
>                                              discussed for too long. I
>                 believe the NSH
>                                      document should have
>                                              or refer to clear
>                 definition of SFC OAM
>                                      packet before it defines
>                                              interpretation of O-bit flag.
>                                      draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>                                              points that in current form
>                 O-bit
>                                      indicates presence of OAM
>                                              information which can be
>                 either as
>                                      metadata or as payload. I
>                                              believe that we must have
>                 more clear and
>                                      deterministic
>                                              definition of OAM packet as
>                 current, in
>                                      my opinion, may cause
>                                              problems for HW-based SFC
>                 OAM support.
> 
>                                              Regards,
>                                              Greg
> 
>                                              On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at
>                 4:22 PM, Joel
>                                      Halpern Direct
>                                              <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>____
> 
>                                             
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>                                             
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>>> wrote:
> 
>                                                   The -13 will be out in
>                 a few days
>                                      with all the changes.
>                                                   That is what we will
>                 ask the WG to
>                                      review.
>                                                   If we already had it
>                 out, we would
>                                      have already asked for
>                                              the WG to
>                                                   take a last look.
> 
>                                                   Yours,
>                                                   Joel
> 
> 
>                                                   On 6/29/17 7:21 PM,
>                 Greg Mirsky wrote:
> 
>                                                       Hi Joel,
>                                                       is the -12 the
>                 latest published
>                                      version of the NSH
>                                              draft? As I
>                                                       see, it is missing
>                 TTL and all
>                                      related changes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                                                               
>                   _______________________________________________
>                                              sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                                      <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>                                     
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>
>                                                               
>                   <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>                                     
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>>
> 
>                                      ____
> 
> 
>                                 
>                 _______________________________________________
>                                  sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>                                 
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>____
> 
>                              __ __
> 
>                              _______________________________________________
>                              sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>                              <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                          â€”____
> 
>                          Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:carlos@cisco.com> <mailto:carlos@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
> 
>                          /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully
>                 understand,
>                          to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____
> 
>                          __ __
> 
>                      __ __
> 
> 
> 
>             â€”
>             Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>             <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
> 
>             /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand,
>             to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/
> 
> 
>         â€”
>         Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>         <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
> 
>         /â€œSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to
>         make myself sound more photosynthesis."/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Earlier I suggested that if OAM=3D0, it is guaranteed that any SFC forwardi=
ng agent needs only consider the SPI and SI.

In other words, O is the slow-path bit, if you think of ASICs and handling =
exceptional cases in software.





David Dolson
Sandvine
  Original Message
From: Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 12:05 AM
To: Greg Mirsky
Cc: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org; Dave Dolson=
; James N Guichard
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]


<all of the below without WG chair hat>
I would have to see specific text.  I am personally not happy with the
wording you suggested recently that an OAM packet is one where the OAM
payload follows the NSH header.

The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it
is required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it
what extra work is required, or where to look for extra information.
And by keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we
address various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for
the different situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired
behavior.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/6/17 11:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Joel,
> considering that we have active and hybrid OAM mechanisms under
> discussion, the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet must be, in my
> view, in the NSH document. I, for one, will support the definition of
> SFC OAM packet as active OAM packet that is specifically generated for
> OAM purpose and whose scope is limited by the SFC domain.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>
>     The current text says rather more than just "the O bit must be
>     zero". It prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH
>     devices for processing packets where the O bit is set.  Which we
>     were specifically asked to provide.
>
>     Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document
>     not specify where the OAM information is carried.  While some folks
>     have assumptions about where the information will reside, we have
>     not agreed on that.
>
>     Yours,
>     Joel
>
>     On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
>
>         Correct practically =97 zero for user packets.
>
>         And I believe that=92s what this says (using more words):
>
>               O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>         Administration, and
>               Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
>         processing of
>               SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>         specification (see
>               [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>
>               The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
>         for non-OAM
>               packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         =97 Carlos.
>
>             On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson
>             <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>
>             <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>>
>             wrote:
>
>             Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is
>             defined.
>             Isn't that where we are at?
>
>
>
>             David Dolson
>             Sandvine
>             *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>             *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
>             *To: *Greg Mirsky
>             *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org
>             <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>             <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>; James N Guichard
>             *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was:
>             Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
>
>
>
>             Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.
>
>             For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition
>             of the following text:
>
>             =93SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload
>             immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when
>             the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.=94
>
>             And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially
>             useful or at least non-harmful addition, very similar text
>             already exists one paragraph below:
>
>             =93The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
>             for non-OAM packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along
>             the SFP.=94
>
>             I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since
>             we are already pointing to a spec that would detail this
>             processing. Things like =93immediately following=94 can be
>             specified in the OAM document. As it is now, what O means is
>             clear and aligns with what I wrote below.
>
>             Additionally, I=92d much rather not change the text that was
>             worked through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest
>             we can move up that sentence one paragraph up to improve the
>             flow and make it explicitly clear:
>
>
>                  O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>             Administration, and
>                  Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
>             processing of
>                  SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
>             specification (see
>                  [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).
>
>             +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>             set for non-OAM
>             +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>             +
>                  SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not
>             support SFC
>                  OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set,
>             but MAY support
>                  a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received
>             SFC OAM
>                  packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.
>             Forwarding OAM
>                  packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support
>             SFC OAM
>                  procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
>             functions, but can
>                  result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is
>             recommended to
>                  analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all
>             OAM functions
>                  prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
>             parameter MUST be
>                  disabled by default.
>
>             -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>             set for non-OAM
>             -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>             -
>
>             Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right
>             balance of not over specify but bring clarity.
>
>             Thanks,
>
>             =97 Carlos.
>
>
>                 On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky
>                 <gregimirsky@gmail.com <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>                 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>                 Hi Jim,
>                 I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed
>                 and how his clarification may be reflected in the documen=
t:
>                 OLD:
>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>                 Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual
>                 packet format and processing of SFC OAM messages is
>                 outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame])=
.
>                 NEW:
>                 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
>                 Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM
>                 packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately
>                 following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload
>                 is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet
>                 format and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside
>                 the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).
>                 Regards,
>                 Greg
>
>                 On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard
>                 <james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>                 <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>> wrote:
>
>                      Hi Greg/Carlos,____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a
>                 textual change
>                      is being proposed or if the current text is
>                 sufficient; please
>                      can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change
>                 is being
>                      proposed please clearly state what this is so that
>                 the WG can
>                      evaluate and we can move forward.____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      Many thanks!____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      Jim____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>
>                      <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsk=
y
>                      *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
>                      *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
>                 <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>
>                      <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
>                      *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>; Andrew G. Malis
>                 <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>
>                      <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>>; sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                      *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh
>                 [Was: Meeting
>                      at IETF 99 in Prague]____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      Hi Carlos,____
>
>                      you have valid interpretation of the text in its
>                 current version.
>                      And I think that if it was in the document as you
>                 have presented
>                      (or very close to it), it would address my concern,
>                 as you've
>                      provided clear and unambiguous definition of what
>                 considered as
>                      OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM
>                 information as
>                      payload that immediately follows the NSH.____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      Regards,____
>
>                      Greg____
>
>                      __ __
>
>                      On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro
>                 (cpignata)
>                      <cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>
>                 <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
>                 wrote:____
>
>                          Hi Andy, ____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          I believe that s/packet/information/ can
>                 actually cause more
>                          confusion that bring clarity.____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet.
>                 O=3D1 means the
>                          payload is an OAM packet. ____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          However, this is independent of the Metadata,
>                 since some
>                          Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And
>                 this is also
>                          independent of a NULL payload as in Adrian=92s
>                 draft.____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have
>                 O=3D0.____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          The text can always be polished more =97 I am no=
t
>                 sure if we
>                          might be in diminishing return territory.____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks
>                 to the
>                          metadata independence of O for user packets,
>                 although maybe
>                          that does belong in other documents)____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          Thanks!____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          Carlos.____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                              On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis
>                              <agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>> wrote:____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              Joel, ____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              I would like to suggest changing:____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
>                 Operations,
>                              Administration, and
>                                 Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual
>                 packet format
>                              and processing of
>                              SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of thi=
s
>                              specification (see
>                                 [oam-frame]).____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              to:____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              O bit: Setting this bit indicates the
>                 presence of
>                              Operations, Administration, and
>                                 Maintenance (OAM) information.  The
>                 actual OAM
>                              information format and processing____
>
>                                 is outside the scope of this
>                 specification (see             [oam-frame]).____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              The reason for this change is that we don=92=
t
>                 yet know if
>                              the format of OAM information, and whether
>                 it will be in
>                              metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus,
>                 we don=92t yet
>                              even know if there will be =93OAM packets=94
>                 per se, as data
>                              packets could possibly also carry OAM
>                 information in the
>                              metadata.____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              If this change is acceptable, then the
>                 following two
>                              paragraphs should also be amended to:____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                                 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
>                 implementations that do not
>                              support SFC
>                                 OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets
>                 with O bit set,
>                              but MAY support
>                                 a configurable parameter to enable
>                 forwarding received
>                              packets with the O bit____
>
>                                 set unmodified to the next element in
>                 the chain.             Forwarding
>                                 packets with the O bit set unmodified by
>                 SFC elements
>                              that do not support SFC OAM
>                                 procedures may be acceptable for a
>                 subset of OAM
>                              functions, but can
>                                 result in unexpected outcomes for
>                 others, thus it is
>                              recommended to
>                                 analyze the impact of forwarding a
>                 packet with the O
>                              bit set for all OAM functions
>                                 prior to enabling this behavior.  The
>                 configurable
>                              parameter MUST be
>                                 disabled by default.
>
>                                 The O bit MUST be set for packets
>                 containing OAM
>                              information and MUST NOT be set for
>                                 packets without OAM information.  The O
>                 bit MUST NOT
>                              be modified along the SFP.____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              Finally, I=92ve seen both =93O bit=94 and O-=
bit=94
>                 used in the
>                              document. The document should choose one.___=
_
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              Thanks,____
>
>                              Andy____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halp=
ern
>                              <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:____
>
>
>                                  The definition of the O bit in the
>                 document is:
>
>                                  O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
>                 Operations,
>                                  Administration, and
>                                     Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The
>                 actual packet
>                                  format and processing of
>                                     SFC OAM messages is outside the
>                 scope of this
>                                  specification (see
>                                     [oam-frame]).
>
>                                     SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
>                 implementations that do
>                                  not support SFC
>                                     OAM procedures SHOULD discard
>                 packets with O-bit
>                                  set, but MAY support
>                                     a configurable parameter to enable
>                 forwarding
>                                  received SFC OAM
>                                     packets unmodified to the next
>                 element in the
>                                  chain.  Forwarding OAM
>                                     packets unmodified by SFC elements
>                 that do not
>                                  support SFC OAM
>                                     procedures may be acceptable for a
>                 subset of OAM
>                                  functions, but can
>                                     result in unexpected outcomes for
>                 others, thus it
>                                  is recommended to
>                                     analyze the impact of forwarding an
>                 OAM packet for
>                                  all OAM functions
>                                     prior to enabling this behavior.
>                 The configurable
>                                  parameter MUST be
>                                     disabled by default.
>
>                                     The O-bit MUST be set for OAM
>                 packets and MUST NOT
>                                  be set for non-OAM
>                                     packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be
>                 modified along the
>                                  SFP.
>
>                                  This seems to me a VERY clear
>                 description of when the
>                                  bit is to be set, and what handling is
>                 required when
>                                  packets with this bit are received at
>                 an NSH support
>                                  entity.
>
>                                  If you consider this wording unclear,
>                 please propose
>                                  specific text to improve it.
>
>                                  Yours,
>                                  Joel
>
>                                  On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:___=
_
>
>                                      Hi Joel,
>                                      by all means, I'm not asking to
>                 hold NSH document
>                                      until SFC OAM solutions progress.
>                 But NSH refers
>                                      to OAM packet and, in my view, it
>                 is too
>                                      ambiguous term. Please consider,
>                 OAM packet may be:
>
>                                        * control message of active SFC
>                 OAM protocol
>                                      carried as payload;
>                                        * control message of active SFC
>                 OAM protocol
>                                      carried as metadata;
>                                        * control information and/or
>                 measurement
>                                      results of hybrid SFC OAM
>                                          protocol carried as metadata
>
>                                      If work on OAM framework is
>                 progressing, perhaps
>                                      all the OAM related discussion as
>                 well as
>                                      allocation of the O-bit itself can
>                 be moved there.
>
>                                      As co-author of several SFC OAM
>                 drafts I'd note
>                                      that none of them has dependency on
>                 where OAM
>                                      information must be placed,
>                 metadata or payload.
>                                      But clear and unambiguous
>                 definitionsof OAM
>                                      packet and interpretation of O-bit
>                 are very much
>                                      needed and will help to progress
>                 SFC OAM solutions.
>
>                                      Regards,
>                                      Greg____
>
>                                      On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM,
>                 Joel M. Halpern
>                                      <jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
>                                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
>
>                                      <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:
>
>                                          Greg, the editors are working
>                 on the revision
>                                      of the OAM Framework
>                                          document.
>
>                                          <chair hat on>
>                                          More importantly, we have been
>                 careful that
>                                      the NSH document does
>                                          not normatively depend upon the =
OAM
>                                      specification.  This was
>                                          discussed with the working
>                 group several
>                                      times, and the OAM wording
>                                          in -13 is the result of that
>                 discussion.
>                                          </chair hat on>
>                                          <chair hat off>
>                                          Are you really asking that we
>                 hold up RFC
>                                      publication of the NSH
>                                          document until we have
>                 agreement on all of
>                                      the complex OAM issues
>                                          (such as in-situ, etc.)  I
>                 observe a steady
>                                      rate of new OAM
>                                          proposals, with new behaviors.
>                 That seems to
>                                      indicate that such
>                                          ahold-up would be almost
>                 indefinite.
>                                          </chair hat off>
>
>                                          Yours,
>                                          Joel M. Halpern
>
>                                          On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky
>                 wrote:
>
>                                              Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
>                                              you'd expect that I'll look
>                 into OAM bit
>                                      and wording on OAM
>                                              packet first. And so I had.
>                 I'm concerned
>                                      that NSH refers to
>                                              expired and, frankly,
>                 stalled document
>                                      that had not been
>                                              discussed for too long. I
>                 believe the NSH
>                                      document should have
>                                              or refer to clear
>                 definition of SFC OAM
>                                      packet before it defines
>                                              interpretation of O-bit flag=
.
>                                      draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
>                                              points that in current form
>                 O-bit
>                                      indicates presence of OAM
>                                              information which can be
>                 either as
>                                      metadata or as payload. I
>                                              believe that we must have
>                 more clear and
>                                      deterministic
>                                              definition of OAM packet as
>                 current, in
>                                      my opinion, may cause
>                                              problems for HW-based SFC
>                 OAM support.
>
>                                              Regards,
>                                              Greg
>
>                                              On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at
>                 4:22 PM, Joel
>                                      Halpern Direct
>                                              <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>____
>
>
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
>
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
>                                      <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
>                 <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>>> wrote:
>
>                                                   The -13 will be out in
>                 a few days
>                                      with all the changes.
>                                                   That is what we will
>                 ask the WG to
>                                      review.
>                                                   If we already had it
>                 out, we would
>                                      have already asked for
>                                              the WG to
>                                                   take a last look.
>
>                                                   Yours,
>                                                   Joel
>
>
>                                                   On 6/29/17 7:21 PM,
>                 Greg Mirsky wrote:
>
>                                                       Hi Joel,
>                                                       is the -12 the
>                 latest published
>                                      version of the NSH
>                                              draft? As I
>                                                       see, it is missing
>                 TTL and all
>                                      related changes:
>
>
>
>
>
>                   _______________________________________________
>                                              sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                                      <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>
>
>                   <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>>
>
>                                      ____
>
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                                  sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>____
>
>                              __ __
>
>                              ____________________________________________=
___
>                              sfc mailing list
>                 sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
>                 <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>                              <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>                 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                          =97____
>
>                          Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:carlos@cisco.com> <mailto:carlos@cisco.com
>                 <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
>
>                          /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not full=
y
>                 understand,
>                          to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____
>
>                          __ __
>
>                      __ __
>
>
>
>             =97
>             Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>             <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
>
>             /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand,
>             to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/
>
>
>         =97
>         Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>
>         <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>
>
>         /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to
>         make myself sound more photosynthesis."/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:15:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
CC: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:22:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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My point is we can at least clearly define the requirements of a compliant =
implementation when O=3D0.
And if we don't define what to do when O=3D1, we must preclude it from bein=
g used. A later document will define that, thereby updating the current doc=
ument.

At this time O really is a reserved bit, or at best Experimental for OAM.


David Dolson
Sandvine
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 10:31 AM
To: Dave Dolson
Cc: Joel M. Halpern; Greg Mirsky; Andrew G. Malis; James N Guichard; sfc@ie=
tf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]


Hi, Dave,


On Jul 7, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com<mailto:ddols=
on@sandvine.com>> wrote:

Earlier I suggested that if OAM=3D0, it is guaranteed that any SFC forwardi=
ng agent needs only consider the SPI and SI.


If O=3D0, all the text from draft-ietf-sfc-nsh applies.

In other words, O is the slow-path bit, if you think of ASICs and handling =
exceptional cases in software.



I think this is too implementation of a consideration for the spec. I do no=
t think a definition at this level is about processing paths and exception =
paths. OAM might not be an exceptional case and some OAMs can be/are ASIC p=
rocessed.

This is why my belief is that for the base NSH document, we should strongly=
 avoid the temptation (that I also have) to go into OAM details (format, pr=
ocessing, etc).

Thanks,

Carlos.




David Dolson
Sandvine
 Original Message
From: Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 12:05 AM
To: Greg Mirsky
Cc: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@i=
etf.org>; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]


<all of the below without WG chair hat>
I would have to see specific text.  I am personally not happy with the
wording you suggested recently that an OAM packet is one where the OAM
payload follows the NSH header.

The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it
is required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it
what extra work is required, or where to look for extra information.
And by keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we
address various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for
the different situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired
behavior.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/6/17 11:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
Hi Joel,
considering that we have active and hybrid OAM mechanisms under
discussion, the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet must be, in my
view, in the NSH document. I, for one, will support the definition of
SFC OAM packet as active OAM packet that is specifically generated for
OAM purpose and whose scope is limited by the SFC domain.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:

   The current text says rather more than just "the O bit must be
   zero". It prescribes what behavior should be implemented in NSH
   devices for processing packets where the O bit is set.  Which we
   were specifically asked to provide.

   Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NSH document
   not specify where the OAM information is carried.  While some folks
   have assumptions about where the information will reside, we have
   not agreed on that.

   Yours,
   Joel

   On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:

       Correct practically =97 zero for user packets.

       And I believe that=92s what this says (using more words):

             O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
       Administration, and
             Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
       processing of
             SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
       specification (see
             [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).

             The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
       for non-OAM
             packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.


       Thanks,

       =97 Carlos.

           On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson
           <ddolson@sandvine.com<mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com> <mailto:ddols=
on@sandvine.com>
           <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>>
           wrote:

           Practically, "The O-bit MUST be zero." Until OAM for NSH is
           defined.
           Isn't that where we are at?



           David Dolson
           Sandvine
           *From: *Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
           *Sent: *Thursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM
           *To: *Greg Mirsky
           *Cc: *Joel M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@=
ietf.org>
           <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
           <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>; James N Guichard
           *Subject: *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was:
           Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]



           Thanks Greg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.

           For clarity, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition
           of the following text:

           =93SFC OAM packet is the packet that has OAM payload
           immediately following NSH.  In all other cases, i.e. when
           the payload is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.=94

           And while at first glance it sounds like a potentially
           useful or at least non-harmful addition, very similar text
           already exists one paragraph below:

           =93The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set
           for non-OAM packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along
           the SFP.=94

           I prefer to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since
           we are already pointing to a spec that would detail this
           processing. Things like =93immediately following=94 can be
           specified in the OAM document. As it is now, what O means is
           clear and aligns with what I wrote below.

           Additionally, I=92d much rather not change the text that was
           worked through iterations and consensus. However, I suggest
           we can move up that sentence one paragraph up to improve the
           flow and make it explicitly clear:


                O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
           Administration, and
                Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and
           processing of
                SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
           specification (see
                [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).

           +   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
           set for non-OAM
           +   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
           +
                SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not
           support SFC
                OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set,
           but MAY support
                a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received
           SFC OAM
                packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.
           Forwarding OAM
                packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support
           SFC OAM
                procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM
           functions, but can
                result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is
           recommended to
                analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all
           OAM functions
                prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable
           parameter MUST be
                disabled by default.

           -   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
           set for non-OAM
           -   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
           -

           Thoughts on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right
           balance of not over specify but bring clarity.

           Thanks,

           =97 Carlos.


               On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky
               <gregimirsky@gmail.com<mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com> <mailto=
:gregimirsky@gmail.com>
               <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com
               <mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com>>> wrote:

               Hi Jim,
               I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed
               and how his clarification may be reflected in the document:
               OLD:
               O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
               Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual
               packet format and processing of SFC OAM messages is
               outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).
               NEW:
               O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,
               Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM
               packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately
               following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload
               is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet
               format and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside
               the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).
               Regards,
               Greg

               On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard
               <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.=
com>
               <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
               <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com
               <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>> wrote:

                    Hi Greg/Carlos,____

                    __ __

                    It is difficult to tell from this thread whether a
               textual change
                    is being proposed or if the current text is
               sufficient; please
                    can you clarify for the WG and if a textual change
               is being
                    proposed please clearly state what this is so that
               the WG can
                    evaluate and we can move forward.____

                    __ __

                    Many thanks!____

                    __ __

                    Jim____

                    __ __

                    *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
               <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>
                    <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org
               <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>>] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky
                    *Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017 1:41 AM
                    *To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
               <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> <mailto:cpign=
ata@cisco.com>
                    <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com
               <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
                    *Cc:* Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com>
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>
                    <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>; Andrew G. Malis
               <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> <mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com>
                    <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
               <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.o=
rg>
               <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org
               <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
                    *Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh
               [Was: Meeting
                    at IETF 99 in Prague]____

                    __ __

                    Hi Carlos,____

                    you have valid interpretation of the text in its
               current version.
                    And I think that if it was in the document as you
               have presented
                    (or very close to it), it would address my concern,
               as you've
                    provided clear and unambiguous definition of what
               considered as
                    OAM packet in SFC - packet that carries OAM
               information as
                    payload that immediately follows the NSH.____

                    __ __

                    Regards,____

                    Greg____

                    __ __

                    On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro
               (cpignata)
                    <cpignata@cisco.com<mailto:cpignata@cisco.com> <mailto:=
cpignata@cisco.com>
               <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com <mailto:cpignata@cisco.com>>>
               wrote:____

                        Hi Andy, ____

                        __ __

                        I believe that s/packet/information/ can
               actually cause more
                        confusion that bring clarity.____

                        __ __

                        O=3D0 means that the payload is a user packet.
               O=3D1 means the
                        payload is an OAM packet. ____

                        __ __

                        However, this is independent of the Metadata,
               since some
                        Metadata can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And
               this is also
                        independent of a NULL payload as in Adrian=92s
               draft.____

                        __ __

                        A user packet with OAM-ish metadata will have
               O=3D0.____

                        __ __

                        The text can always be polished more =97 I am not
               sure if we
                        might be in diminishing return territory.____

                        __ __

                        (I would not oppose a clarification that speaks
               to the
                        metadata independence of O for user packets,
               although maybe
                        that does belong in other documents)____

                        __ __

                        Thanks!____

                        __ __

                        Carlos.____

                        __ __

                            On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis
                            <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>
               <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com> <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com
               <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>> wrote:____

                            __ __

                            Joel, ____

                            __ __

                            I would like to suggest changing:____

                            __ __

                            O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
               Operations,
                            Administration, and
                               Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual
               packet format
                            and processing of
                            SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this
                            specification (see
                               [oam-frame]).____

                            __ __

                            to:____

                            __ __

                            O bit: Setting this bit indicates the
               presence of
                            Operations, Administration, and
                               Maintenance (OAM) information.  The
               actual OAM
                            information format and processing____

                               is outside the scope of this
               specification (see             [oam-frame]).____

                            __ __

                            __ __

                            The reason for this change is that we don=92t
               yet know if
                            the format of OAM information, and whether
               it will be in
                            metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus,
               we don=92t yet
                            even know if there will be =93OAM packets=94
               per se, as data
                            packets could possibly also carry OAM
               information in the
                            metadata.____

                            __ __

                            If this change is acceptable, then the
               following two
                            paragraphs should also be amended to:____

                            __ __

                               SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
               implementations that do not
                            support SFC
                               OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets
               with O bit set,
                            but MAY support
                               a configurable parameter to enable
               forwarding received
                            packets with the O bit____

                               set unmodified to the next element in
               the chain.             Forwarding
                               packets with the O bit set unmodified by
               SFC elements
                            that do not support SFC OAM
                               procedures may be acceptable for a
               subset of OAM
                            functions, but can
                               result in unexpected outcomes for
               others, thus it is
                            recommended to
                               analyze the impact of forwarding a
               packet with the O
                            bit set for all OAM functions
                               prior to enabling this behavior.  The
               configurable
                            parameter MUST be
                               disabled by default.

                               The O bit MUST be set for packets
               containing OAM
                            information and MUST NOT be set for
                               packets without OAM information.  The O
               bit MUST NOT
                            be modified along the SFP.____

                            __ __

                            __ __

                            Finally, I=92ve seen both =93O bit=94 and O-bit=
=94
               used in the
                            document. The document should choose one.____

                            __ __

                            Thanks,____

                            Andy____

                            __ __

                            __ __

                            On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern
                            <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com=
>
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>> wrote:____


                                The definition of the O bit in the
               document is:

                                O bit: Setting this bit indicates an
               Operations,
                                Administration, and
                                   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The
               actual packet
                                format and processing of
                                   SFC OAM messages is outside the
               scope of this
                                specification (see
                                   [oam-frame]).

                                   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer
               implementations that do
                                not support SFC
                                   OAM procedures SHOULD discard
               packets with O-bit
                                set, but MAY support
                                   a configurable parameter to enable
               forwarding
                                received SFC OAM
                                   packets unmodified to the next
               element in the
                                chain.  Forwarding OAM
                                   packets unmodified by SFC elements
               that do not
                                support SFC OAM
                                   procedures may be acceptable for a
               subset of OAM
                                functions, but can
                                   result in unexpected outcomes for
               others, thus it
                                is recommended to
                                   analyze the impact of forwarding an
               OAM packet for
                                all OAM functions
                                   prior to enabling this behavior.
               The configurable
                                parameter MUST be
                                   disabled by default.

                                   The O-bit MUST be set for OAM
               packets and MUST NOT
                                be set for non-OAM
                                   packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be
               modified along the
                                SFP.

                                This seems to me a VERY clear
               description of when the
                                bit is to be set, and what handling is
               required when
                                packets with this bit are received at
               an NSH support
                                entity.

                                If you consider this wording unclear,
               please propose
                                specific text to improve it.

                                Yours,
                                Joel

                                On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:____

                                    Hi Joel,
                                    by all means, I'm not asking to
               hold NSH document
                                    until SFC OAM solutions progress.
               But NSH refers
                                    to OAM packet and, in my view, it
               is too
                                    ambiguous term. Please consider,
               OAM packet may be:

                                      * control message of active SFC
               OAM protocol
                                    carried as payload;
                                      * control message of active SFC
               OAM protocol
                                    carried as metadata;
                                      * control information and/or
               measurement
                                    results of hybrid SFC OAM
                                        protocol carried as metadata

                                    If work on OAM framework is
               progressing, perhaps
                                    all the OAM related discussion as
               well as
                                    allocation of the O-bit itself can
               be moved there.

                                    As co-author of several SFC OAM
               drafts I'd note
                                    that none of them has dependency on
               where OAM
                                    information must be placed,
               metadata or payload.
                                    But clear and unambiguous
               definitionsof OAM
                                    packet and interpretation of O-bit
               are very much
                                    needed and will help to progress
               SFC OAM solutions.

                                    Regards,
                                    Greg____

                                    On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM,
               Joel M. Halpern
                                    <jmh@joelhalpern.com<mailto:jmh@joelhal=
pern.com>
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>
                                    <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>

                                    <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>>>> wrote:

                                        Greg, the editors are working
               on the revision
                                    of the OAM Framework
                                        document.

                                        <chair hat on>
                                        More importantly, we have been
               careful that
                                    the NSH document does
                                        not normatively depend upon the OAM
                                    specification.  This was
                                        discussed with the working
               group several
                                    times, and the OAM wording
                                        in -13 is the result of that
               discussion.
                                        </chair hat on>
                                        <chair hat off>
                                        Are you really asking that we
               hold up RFC
                                    publication of the NSH
                                        document until we have
               agreement on all of
                                    the complex OAM issues
                                        (such as in-situ, etc.)  I
               observe a steady
                                    rate of new OAM
                                        proposals, with new behaviors.
               That seems to
                                    indicate that such
                                        ahold-up would be almost
               indefinite.
                                        </chair hat off>

                                        Yours,
                                        Joel M. Halpern

                                        On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky
               wrote:

                                            Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,
                                            you'd expect that I'll look
               into OAM bit
                                    and wording on OAM
                                            packet first. And so I had.
               I'm concerned
                                    that NSH refers to
                                            expired and, frankly,
               stalled document
                                    that had not been
                                            discussed for too long. I
               believe the NSH
                                    document should have
                                            or refer to clear
               definition of SFC OAM
                                    packet before it defines
                                            interpretation of O-bit flag.
                                    draft-farrel-sfc-convent correctly
                                            points that in current form
               O-bit
                                    indicates presence of OAM
                                            information which can be
               either as
                                    metadata or as payload. I
                                            believe that we must have
               more clear and
                                    deterministic
                                            definition of OAM packet as
               current, in
                                    my opinion, may cause
                                            problems for HW-based SFC
               OAM support.

                                            Regards,
                                            Greg

                                            On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at
               4:22 PM, Joel
                                    Halpern Direct
                                            <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com<mai=
lto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
                                    <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>
                                    <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
                                    <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>____


               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
                                    <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>

               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
                                    <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
               <mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>>>>> wrote:

                                                 The -13 will be out in
               a few days
                                    with all the changes.
                                                 That is what we will
               ask the WG to
                                    review.
                                                 If we already had it
               out, we would
                                    have already asked for
                                            the WG to
                                                 take a last look.

                                                 Yours,
                                                 Joel


                                                 On 6/29/17 7:21 PM,
               Greg Mirsky wrote:

                                                     Hi Joel,
                                                     is the -12 the
               latest published
                                    version of the NSH
                                            draft? As I
                                                     see, it is missing
               TTL and all
                                    related changes:





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               <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>>
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               <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
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                                    ____



               _______________________________________________
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               <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
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               <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>

               <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
               <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>>____

                            __ __

                            _______________________________________________
                            sfc mailing list
               sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org> <mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org
               <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
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                        __ __

                        =97____

                        Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@ci=
sco.com>
               <mailto:carlos@cisco.com> <mailto:carlos@cisco.com
               <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>

                        /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully
               understand,
                        to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/____

                        __ __

                    __ __



           =97
           Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com> <mai=
lto:carlos@cisco.com>
           <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>

           /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand,
           to make myself sound more photosynthesis."/


       =97
       Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com> <mailto:=
carlos@cisco.com>
       <mailto:carlos@cisco.com <mailto:carlos@cisco.com>>

       /=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to
       make myself sound more photosynthesis."/




_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


_______________________________________________
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sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

=97
Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com<mailto:carlos@cisco.com>

=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself=
 sound more photosynthesis."


--_000_2017070714513551446572155922090sandvinecom_
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nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
My point is we can at least clearly define the requirements of a compliant =
implementation when O=3D0.</div>
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And if we don't define what to do when O=3D1, we must preclude it from bein=
g used. A later document will define that, thereby updating the current doc=
ument.</div>
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',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
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<br>
</div>
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',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
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At this time O really is a reserved bit, or at best Experimental for OAM.</=
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<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
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<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
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<div style=3D"font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif=
,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255)">
David&nbsp;Dolson<br>
Sandvine</div>
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<tbody>
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3); border-top-width:1pt; padding:3pt 0in 0in; font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha=
 Sans','Slate Pro'; font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Friday, July 7, 2017 10:31 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Dave Dolson</div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>Joel M. Halpern; Greg Mirsky; Andrew G. Malis; James N Guic=
hard; sfc@ietf.org</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting a=
t IETF 99 in Prague]</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(186,188,20=
9); border-top-width:1pt; font-size:initial; text-align:initial; background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<br>
<div>Hi, Dave,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Jul 7, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ddolson@sandvine.com" class=3D"">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt; wrote:</d=
iv>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">Earlier I suggested that if OAM=3D0, it is guaranteed that =
any SFC forwarding agent needs only consider the SPI and SI.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>If O=3D0, all the text from&nbsp;draft-ietf-sfc-nsh applies.</div>
<br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">In other words, O is the slow-path bit, if you think of ASI=
Cs and handling exceptional cases in software.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>I think this is too implementation of a consideration for the spec. I =
do not think a definition at this level is about processing paths and excep=
tion paths. OAM might not be an exceptional case and some OAMs can be/are A=
SIC processed.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>This is why my belief is that for the base NSH document, we should str=
ongly avoid the temptation (that I also have) to go into OAM details (forma=
t, processing, etc).</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
<br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
David Dolson<br class=3D"">
Sandvine<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;Original Message<br class=3D"">
From: Joel M. Halpern<br class=3D"">
Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 12:05 AM<br class=3D"">
To: Greg Mirsky<br class=3D"">
Cc: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@iet=
f.org" class=3D"">
sfc@ietf.org</a>; Dave Dolson; James N Guichard<br class=3D"">
Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in=
 Prague]<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&lt;all of the below without WG chair hat&gt;<br class=3D"">
I would have to see specific text. &nbsp;I am personally not happy with the=
<br class=3D"">
wording you suggested recently that an OAM packet is one where the OAM<br c=
lass=3D"">
payload follows the NSH header.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it<br =
class=3D"">
is required to do extra work. &nbsp;The point of the bit is NOT to tell it<=
br class=3D"">
what extra work is required, or where to look for extra information.<br cla=
ss=3D"">
And by keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we<br=
 class=3D"">
address various cases. &nbsp;And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for<=
br class=3D"">
the different situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired<br =
class=3D"">
behavior.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Yours,<br class=3D"">
Joel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On 7/6/17 11:59 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">Hi Joel,<br class=3D"">
considering that we have active and hybrid OAM mechanisms under<br class=3D=
"">
discussion, the clear definition of what SFC OAM packet must be, in my<br c=
lass=3D"">
view, in the NSH document. I, for one, will support the definition of<br cl=
ass=3D"">
SFC OAM packet as active OAM packet that is specifically generated for<br c=
lass=3D"">
OAM purpose and whose scope is limited by the SFC domain.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Regards,<br class=3D"">
Greg<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@j=
oelhalpern.com" class=3D"">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalper=
n.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The current text says rather more than just &quot;the O b=
it must be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;zero&quot;. It prescribes what behavior should be impleme=
nted in NSH<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;devices for processing packets where the O bit is set. &n=
bsp;Which we<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;were specifically asked to provide.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Speaking personally, I prefer that the OAM text in the NS=
H document<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;not specify where the OAM information is carried. &nbsp;W=
hile some folks<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;have assumptions about where the information will reside,=
 we have<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;not agreed on that.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yours,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 7/6/17 11:24 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:<br=
 class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Correct practically =97 zero for =
user packets.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And I believe that=92s what this =
says (using more words):<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administration, and<br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;Maintenance (OAM) packet. &nbsp;The actual packet format and<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;processing of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specification (see<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;[I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for non-OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;packets. &nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<br class=3D=
"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=97 Carlos.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Jul 6,=
 2017, at 11:20 PM, Dave Dolson<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" class=3D"">ddolson@sandvine.com</a> &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" class=3D"">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.=
com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" class=3D"">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</=
a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com" class=3D"">mailto:ddolson@sa=
ndvine.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;wrote:<br=
 class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Practical=
ly, &quot;The O-bit MUST be zero.&quot; Until OAM for NSH is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;defined.<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Isn't tha=
t where we are at?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;David Dol=
son<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sandvine<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*From: *C=
arlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Sent: *T=
hursday, July 6, 2017 11:14 PM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*To: *Gre=
g Mirsky<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Cc: *Joe=
l M. Halpern; Andrew G. Malis; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">
sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;; Jame=
s N Guichard<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Subject:=
 *Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was:<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Meeting a=
t IETF 99 in Prague]<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks Gr=
eg and Jim. I would like to close on this item.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;For clari=
ty, what you (Greg) are proposing is the addition<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the fo=
llowing text:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93SFC OA=
M packet is the packet that has OAM payload<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;immediate=
ly following NSH. &nbsp;In all other cases, i.e. when<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the paylo=
ad is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset.=94<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And while=
 at first glance it sounds like a potentially<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;useful or=
 at least non-harmful addition, very similar text<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;already e=
xists one paragraph below:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=93The O-=
bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for non-O=
AM packets. &nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the SFP.=
=94<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I prefer =
to specify as little as possible of OAM here, since<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;we are al=
ready pointing to a spec that would detail this<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;processin=
g. Things like =93immediately following=94 can be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specified=
 in the OAM document. As it is now, what O means is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;clear and=
 aligns with what I wrote below.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Additiona=
lly, I=92d much rather not change the text that was<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;worked th=
rough iterations and consensus. However, I suggest<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;we can mo=
ve up that sentence one paragraph up to improve the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;flow and =
make it explicitly clear:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administr=
ation, and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) packet. &nbsp;The actual packet form=
at and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;processin=
g of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specifica=
tion (see<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-framework]).<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&#43; &nb=
sp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set for n=
on-OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&#43; &nb=
sp;&nbsp;packets. &nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&#43;<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;support S=
FC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set,<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;but MAY s=
upport<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Forwardin=
g OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;functions=
, but can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;recommend=
ed to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM funct=
ions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;prior to enabling this behavior. &nbsp;The configurabl=
e<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;parameter=
 MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;disabled by default.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&=
nbsp;The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set for n=
on-OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&=
nbsp;packets. &nbsp;The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-<br clas=
s=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thoughts =
on this proposal? It seems to achieve the right<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;balance o=
f not over specify but bring clarity.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,<b=
r class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=97 Carlo=
s.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:07 PM, Greg Mirsky<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" class=3D"">greg=
imirsky@gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" class=3D=
"">mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" class=3D"">mail=
to:gregimirsky@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" class=3D"">mail=
to:gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Jim,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I can give my interpretation of what Carlos had proposed<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and how his clarification may be reflected in the document:<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OLD:<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. The actual<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet format and processing of SFC OAM messages is<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;outside the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;NEW:<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations,<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) packet. SFC OAM<br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet is the packet that has OAM payload immediately<br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;following NSH. In all other cases, i.e. when the payload<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is not OAM, the O-bit MUST be reset. The actual packet<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;format and processing of SFC OAM messages are outside<br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the scope of this specification (see [oam-frame]).<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, James N Guichard<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" class=3D"=
">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" class=3D"=
">mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" class=3D"=
">mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com" class=3D"=
">mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Greg/Carlos,____<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It is difficult to tell from t=
his thread whether a<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;textual change<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is being proposed or if the cu=
rrent text is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sufficient; please<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;can you clarify for the WG and=
 if a textual change<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is being<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;proposed please clearly state =
what this is so that<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the WG can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;evaluate and we can move forwa=
rd.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Many thanks!____<br class=3D""=
>
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Jim____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*From:*sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a><br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailt=
o:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-boun=
ces@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailt=
o:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;] *On Behalf Of *Greg Mirsky<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Sent:* Tuesday, July 04, 2017=
 1:41 AM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*To:* Carlos Pignataro (cpigna=
ta)<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D"">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata=
@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:=
cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Cc:* Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joel=
halpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;; Andrew G. Malis<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">agmalis@=
gmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">mailto:ag=
malis@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@=
gmail.com" class=3D"">mailto:agmalis@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">mailto:a=
gmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;*Subject:* Re: [sfc] Status of=
 draft-ietf-sfc-nsh<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[Was: Meeting<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;at IETF 99 in Prague]____<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Carlos,____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;you have valid interpretation =
of the text in its<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;current version.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And I think that if it was in =
the document as you<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;have presented<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(or very close to it), it woul=
d address my concern,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;as you've<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;provided clear and unambiguous=
 definition of what<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;considered as<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM packet in SFC - packet tha=
t carries OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;information as<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payload that immediately follo=
ws the NSH.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM=
, Carlos Pignataro<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(cpignata)<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata=
@cisco.com" class=3D"">cpignata@cisco.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignat=
a@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:=
cpignata@cisco.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;wrote:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi And=
y, ____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I beli=
eve that s/packet/information/ can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;actually cause more<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;confus=
ion that bring clarity.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O=3D0 =
means that the payload is a user packet.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O=3D1 means the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;payloa=
d is an OAM packet. ____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Howeve=
r, this is independent of the Metadata,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;since some<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Metada=
ta can be OAM-ish (as a timestamp). And<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;this is also<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indepe=
ndent of a NULL payload as in Adrian=92s<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A user=
 packet with OAM-ish metadata will have<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O=3D0.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The te=
xt can always be polished more =97 I am not<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sure if we<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;might =
be in diminishing return territory.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(I wou=
ld not oppose a clarification that speaks<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;metada=
ta independence of O for user packets,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;although maybe<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that d=
oes belong in other documents)____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks=
!____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Carlos=
.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Jul 1, 2017, at 5:26 PM, Andrew G. Malis<br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">agmal=
is@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">mailto:a=
gmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"=
">mailto:agmalis@gmail.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" class=3D"">mailto:a=
gmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel, ____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would like to suggest changing:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates an<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Operations,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administration, and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) packet. &nbsp;The act=
ual<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet format<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and processing of<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this<br class=3D=
"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specification (see<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[oam-frame]).____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;presence of<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Operations, Administration, and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maintenance (OAM) information. &nbsp;Th=
e<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;actual OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;information format and processing____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is outside the scope of this<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specification (see &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[oam-frame]).____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The reason for this change is that we don=92t<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;yet know if<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the format of OAM information, and whether<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;it will be in<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;metadata, packet contents, or both. Thus,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;we don=92t yet<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;even know if there will be =93OAM packets=94<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;per se, as data<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets could possibly also carry OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;information in the<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;metadata.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If this change is acceptable, then the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;following two<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;paragraphs should also be amended to:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;implementations that do not<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;support SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;with O bit set,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;but MAY support<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a configurable parameter to enable<br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;forwarding received<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets with the O bit____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set unmodified to the next element in<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the chain. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Forwarding<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets with the O bit set unmodified b=
y<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC elements<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that do not support SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;procedures may be acceptable for a<br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;subset of OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;functions, but can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;result in unexpected outcomes for<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;others, thus it is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;recommended to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;analyze the impact of forwarding a<br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet with the O<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;bit set for all OAM functions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;prior to enabling this behavior. &nbsp;=
The<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;configurable<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;parameter MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;disabled by default.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The O bit MUST be set for packets<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;containing OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;information and MUST NOT be set for<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets without OAM information. &nbsp;=
The O<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;bit MUST NOT<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be modified along the SFP.____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Finally, I=92ve seen both =93O bit=94 and O-bit=94<br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;used in the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;document. The document should choose one.____<br class=3D=
"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Thanks,____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Andy____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Joel M. Halpern<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">jmh=
@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" cla=
ss=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The definition of the O bit in th=
e<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;document is:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O bit: Setting this bit indicates=
 an<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Operations,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Administration, and<br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maintenance (OA=
M) packet. &nbsp;The<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;actual packet<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;format and processing of<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM message=
s is outside the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;scope of this<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specification (see<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[oam-frame]).<b=
r class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SF/SFF/SFC Prox=
y/Classifer<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;implementations that do<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;not support SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM procedures =
SHOULD discard<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets with O-bit<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;set, but MAY support<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a configurable =
parameter to enable<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;forwarding<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;received SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodif=
ied to the next<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;element in the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;chain. &nbsp;Forwarding OAM<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets unmodif=
ied by SFC elements<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that do not<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;support SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;procedures may =
be acceptable for a<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;subset of OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;functions, but can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;result in unexp=
ected outcomes for<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;others, thus it<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is recommended to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;analyze the imp=
act of forwarding an<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM packet for<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;all OAM functions<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;prior to enabli=
ng this behavior.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The configurable<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;parameter MUST be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;disabled by def=
ault.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The O-bit MUST =
be set for OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets and MUST NOT<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be set for non-OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets. &nbsp;=
The O-bit MUST NOT be<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;modified along the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFP.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This seems to me a VERY clear<br =
class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;description of when the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;bit is to be set, and what handli=
ng is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;required when<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packets with this bit are receive=
d at<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;an NSH support<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;entity.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If you consider this wording uncl=
ear,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;please propose<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specific text to improve it.<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yours,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 7/1/17 5:02 PM, Greg Mirsky wr=
ote:____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Joel,<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;by all me=
ans, I'm not asking to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hold NSH document<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;until SFC=
 OAM solutions progress.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;But NSH refers<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to OAM pa=
cket and, in my view, it<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is too<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ambiguous=
 term. Please consider,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM packet may be:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;* control message of active SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM protocol<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;carried a=
s payload;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;* control message of active SFC<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM protocol<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;carried a=
s metadata;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;* control information and/or<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;measurement<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;results o=
f hybrid SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;protocol carried as metadata<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If work o=
n OAM framework is<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;progressing, perhaps<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;all the O=
AM related discussion as<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;well as<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;allocatio=
n of the O-bit itself can<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;be moved there.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As co-aut=
hor of several SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;drafts I'd note<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that none=
 of them has dependency on<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;where OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;informati=
on must be placed,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;metadata or payload.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;But clear=
 and unambiguous<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;definitionsof OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet an=
d interpretation of O-bit<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;are very much<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;needed an=
d will help to progress<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;SFC OAM solutions.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg____<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Sat, J=
ul 1, 2017 at 1:21 PM,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel M. Halpern<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br cla=
ss=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" cla=
ss=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto=
:jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg, the editors are working<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;on the revision<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the OA=
M Framework<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;document.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;chair hat on&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;More importantly, we have been<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;careful that<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the NSH d=
ocument does<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;not normatively depend upon the OAM<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specifica=
tion. &nbsp;This was<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discussed with the working<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;group several<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;times, an=
d the OAM wording<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;in -13 is the result of that<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discussion.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;/chair hat on&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;chair hat off&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Are you really asking that we<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;hold up RFC<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;publicati=
on of the NSH<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;document until we have<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;agreement on all of<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the compl=
ex OAM issues<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(such as in-situ, etc.) &nbsp;I<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;observe a steady<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;rate of n=
ew OAM<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;proposals, with new behaviors.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That seems to<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicate =
that such<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ahold-up would be almost<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indefinite.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;/chair hat off&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yours,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel M. Halpern<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 7/1/17 3:39 PM, Greg Mirsky<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Joel, Adrian, et. al,<br class=3D=
"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;you'd expect that I'll look<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;into OAM bit<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and wordi=
ng on OAM<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet first. And so I had.<br class=
=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm concerned<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that NSH =
refers to<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;expired and, frankly,<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;stalled document<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;that had =
not been<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;discussed for too long. I<br class=
=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;believe the NSH<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;document =
should have<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;or refer to clear<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;definition of SFC OAM<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;packet be=
fore it defines<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;interpretation of O-bit flag.<br cla=
ss=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft-far=
rel-sfc-convent correctly<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;points that in current form<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;O-bit<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;indicates=
 presence of OAM<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;information which can be<br class=3D=
"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;either as<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;metadata =
or as payload. I<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;believe that we must have<br class=
=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;more clear and<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;determini=
stic<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;definition of OAM packet as<br class=
=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;current, in<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;my opinio=
n, may cause<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;problems for HW-based SFC<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;OAM support.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Regards,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4:22 PM, Joel<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Halpern D=
irect<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joe=
lhalpern.com" class=3D"">jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh.direct@joelh=
alpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh.direct@joelh=
alpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh.direct@joelh=
alpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh.direct@joelh=
alpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D"">mailto:jmh.direct@joelh=
alpern.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com" class=3D""=
>mailto:jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The -1=
3 will be out in<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a few days<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;with all =
the changes.<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;That i=
s what we will<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ask the WG to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;review.<b=
r class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If we =
already had it<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;out, we would<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;have alre=
ady asked for<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the WG to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;take a=
 last look.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yours,=
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Joel<b=
r class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 6/2=
9/17 7:21 PM,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Greg Mirsky wrote:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hi Joel,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is the -12 the<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;latest published<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;version o=
f the NSH<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;draft? As I<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;see, it is missing<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;TTL and all<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;related c=
hanges:<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_______________________________________________<=
br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a><br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
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sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D""=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" class=
=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"=
">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/sfc" class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;____<br c=
lass=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_______________________________________________<br class=3D"=
">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a><br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" class=
=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;&gt;____<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;_______________________________________________<br class=
=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a> =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt; =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ietf.org</a><br c=
lass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">mailto:sfc@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" class=
=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc"=
 class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" cl=
ass=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;&gt;____<br class=
=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=97___=
_<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Carlos=
 Pignataro, <a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">
carlos@cisco.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:ca=
rlos@cisco.com</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">m=
ailto:carlos@cisco.com</a><br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:ca=
rlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/=93So=
metimes I use big words that I do not fully<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;understand,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to mak=
e myself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;/____<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<=
br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__ __<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=97<br cl=
ass=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Carlos Pi=
gnataro, <a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">carlos@cisco.com</a=
> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.co=
m</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.com</a> &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/=93Somet=
imes I use big words that I do not fully understand,<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to make m=
yself sound more photosynthesis.&quot;/<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=97<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Carlos Pignataro, <a href=3D"mail=
to:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">carlos@cisco.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisc=
o.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@=
cisco.com" class=3D"">mailto:carlos@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/=93Sometimes I use big words tha=
t I do not fully understand, to<br class=3D"">
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;make myself sound more photosynth=
esis.&quot;/<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" class=3D"">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</blockquote>
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
sfc mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" class=3D"">sfc@ietf.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" class=3D"">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
=97</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); letter-spacing:normal; orphans:a=
uto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:no=
rmal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; word-wrap:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" class=3D"">carlo=
s@cisco.com</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<i class=3D"">=93Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, =
to make myself sound more&nbsp;photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class=3D"">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 15:02:34 +0000
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 15:04:11 +0000
Message-ID: <C69E556E-1E33-4987-9323-10621CB0B0CD@cisco.com>
References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com> <5850a958-1720-4ce1-a840-0af018bd6fca@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmW_QP3KEGtvurZ6jCOh7vvYL3xr-dCcc2cgDbUD8jNi-w@mail.gmail.com> <2ea3d07d-fae0-765a-8bbd-bae854c0b682@joelhalpern.com> <20170707141406.5144657.95230.22069@sandvine.com> <CDDCBBD7-047B-4112-8F3D-189D6449E012@cisco.com> <20170707145135.5144657.21559.22090@sandvine.com>
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13.txt
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From nobody Fri Jul  7 14:29:07 2017
Return-Path: <agmalis@gmail.com>
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 17:28:42 -0400
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>,  "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>,  James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Joel et al,

The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it is
> required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it what
> extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by
> keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we address
> various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the differe=
nt
> situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.
>
>>
>> This was exactly the point of my proposed text change, to reflect that w=
e
don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occur. However, after cat=
ching up
on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state that the
definition of an =E2=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit se=
t, and leave it
at that.

Also, because the details of the forwarding and processing of OAM packets
is outside the scope of this document, so should be the details of any
optional parameters that modify that processing.

So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM paragraphs with:

   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
   SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [oam-frame <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-fr=
ame>]).
The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be

   set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.


FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=80=9CO bit=
=E2=80=9D and
=E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care which, but we should be consi=
stent. I=E2=80=99m happy to
leave that decision to the editors.

Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly offline =
for the
last few days.

Cheers,
Andy

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Joel et al,<div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it is =
required to do extra work.=C2=A0 The point of the bit is NOT to tell it wha=
t extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by ke=
eping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we address var=
ious cases.=C2=A0 And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the differe=
nt situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.<br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote></blockquote><div>This was exactly the poi=
nt of my proposed text change, to reflect that we don=E2=80=99t yet know wh=
ere OAM information will occur. However, after catching up on the discussio=
n, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state that the definition of an =E2=
=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit set, and leave it at t=
hat.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, because the details of the forwarding a=
nd processing of OAM packets is outside the scope of this document, so shou=
ld be the details of any optional parameters that modify that processing.</=
div><div><br></div><div>So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM p=
aragraphs with:</div><div><br></div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=
=3D"font-size:13.333333015441895px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:r=
gb(0,0,0)">   O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administrati=
on, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
   SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-fr=
ame">oam-frame</a>]). The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be=
=C2=A0</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333333015441=
895px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   set for non-OAM=
 packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.</pre></div><div><br=
></div><div>FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=
=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care whic=
h, but we should be consistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to leave that decision to=
 the editors.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, sorry for the delayed response=
, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly offline for the last few days.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div=
></div></div></div>

--001a113ccd8e0dda260553c0ec30--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 21:36:40 +0000
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References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com> <5850a958-1720-4ce1-a840-0af018bd6fca@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmW_QP3KEGtvurZ6jCOh7vvYL3xr-dCcc2cgDbUD8jNi-w@mail.gmail.com> <2ea3d07d-fae0-765a-8bbd-bae854c0b682@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU2wrHcjwOqAi-sxhgRYxCeh_TN37BuYn=-dz2QKrrTbUg@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <154501d2f12a$c3516ea0$49f44be0$@olddog.co.uk> <afd2eb0b-723a-1f61-3724-f5fb3cfd810b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmXwomE=AYfqvqxVqK67fjUaLQPxnBogoXxcid1E=pMh1g@mail.gmail.com> <10f44d37-abab-81c5-994c-057816361d8b@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmVHOKmikwbWH41rj4VwOvcm2oE+PrWXb1QPCNkcW98==A@mail.gmail.com> <6dc6ac23-a572-eef3-7f81-987ce7f5d65d@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU0s0RYWrh_-YUZHNgCxVFXFm7+GZ2XgreJMFtA+b-0ysQ@mail.gmail.com> <33CEB96C-04F1-4FEB-8B18-D257DF1531C8@cisco.com> <CA+RyBmUDHF8pUqeOGUhUsyRuRd4aO-UB-q7_sE4S3X3H4_-ddw@mail.gmail.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EE5AFA@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <CA+RyBmXL0AVr7xSoiZfGoq-W2=r+gyfh0w_N74Cu5dnigALquw@mail.gmail.com> <CFE231EE-4D46-4E00-8D6D-D92EDE4EE480@cisco.com> <20170707032005.5144657.26796.21967@sandvine.com> <039DA7F2-3FEC-4C8E-A5C3-FFEE8EFF3587@cisco.com> <5850a958-1720-4ce1-a840-0af018bd6fca@joelhalpern.com> <CA+RyBmW_QP3KEGtvurZ6jCOh7vvYL3xr-dCcc2cgDbUD8jNi-w@mail.gmail.com> <2ea3d07d-fae0-765a-8bbd-bae854c0b682@joelhalpern.com> <CAA=duU2wrHcjwOqAi-sxhgRYxCeh_TN37BuYn=-dz2QKrrTbUg@mail.gmail.com> <58ECBF12-77E2-4D36-80FD-02F651798886@cisco.com>
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 17:50:46 -0400
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>,  "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>,  James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Carlos,

I would support that revision, and perhaps even make it stronger, into a
MUST. But I could live with SHOULD.

Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Thanks Andy for the follow-up!
>
> I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful and simplifies the
> overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to include =E2=80=
=9Cunless
> otherwise specified, implementations SHOULD discard packets with the O bi=
t
> set.=E2=80=9D (as this was important to the WG during earlier discussions=
)
>
> And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9CO-bi=
t=E2=80=9D. I will make this
> change for now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carlos.
>
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Joel et al,
>
> The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it i=
s
>> required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it what
>> extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by
>> keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we addres=
s
>> various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the differ=
ent
>> situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.
>>
>>>
>>> This was exactly the point of my proposed text change, to reflect that
> we don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occur. However, afte=
r catching
> up on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state that the
> definition of an =E2=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit =
set, and leave it
> at that.
>
> Also, because the details of the forwarding and processing of OAM packets
> is outside the scope of this document, so should be the details of any
> optional parameters that modify that processing.
>
> So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM paragraphs with:
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
>    SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
>    [oam-frame <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-=
frame>]). The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>
>    set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
> FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=80=9CO bi=
t=E2=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care which, but we should be con=
sistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to
> leave that decision to the editors.
>
> Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly offlin=
e for the
> last few days.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>

--001a1141c70c04b80f0553c13be5
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Carlos,<div><br></div><div>I would support that revision, =
and perhaps even make it stronger, into a MUST. But I could live with SHOUL=
D.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 7, =
2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
Thanks Andy for the follow-up!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful and simplifies the=
 overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to include =E2=80=9C=
unless otherwise specified, implementations SHOULD discard=C2=A0packets wit=
h the O bit set.=E2=80=9D (as this was important
 to the WG during earlier discussions)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9CO=
-bit=E2=80=9D. I will make this change for now.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Carlos.</div>
<div><br>
<div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agma=
lis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"m_4799943259182740173Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Joel et al,
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it is =
required to do extra work.=C2=A0 The point of the bit is NOT to tell it wha=
t extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by ke=
eping that separation, we get significant
 flexibility in how we address various cases.=C2=A0 And we can evaluate the=
 behaviors we want for the different situations, and set the bit appropriat=
ely for our desired behavior.<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>This was exactly the point of my proposed text change, to reflect that=
 we don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occur. However, after=
 catching up on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state =
that the definition of an =E2=80=9COAM
 packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit set, and leave it at that.</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, because the details of the forwarding and processing of OAM pack=
ets is outside the scope of this document, so should be the details of any =
optional parameters that modify that processing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM paragraphs with:</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre class=3D"m_4799943259182740173gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333=
333015441895px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">   O bit: Setting this bit=
 indicates an Operations, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
   SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
   [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-fr=
ame" target=3D"_blank">oam-frame</a>]). The O bit MUST be set for OAM packe=
ts and MUST NOT be=C2=A0</pre>
<pre class=3D"m_4799943259182740173gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333=
333015441895px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">   set for non-OAM packets=
. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.</pre>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=80=9CO=
 bit=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care which, but =
we should be consistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to leave that decision to the ed=
itors.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly off=
line for the last few days.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div></div><div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
=E2=80=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-=
indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wra=
p:break-word">
Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank=
">carlos@cisco.com</a><span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1141c70c04b80f0553c13be5--


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
CC: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Dave Dolson" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 07:43:12 -0400
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To: "BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>,  "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>,  Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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--001a113f1dccb6b4360553f51711
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Med,

The first two paragraphs look great, thanks.

The third paragraph is inconsistent (this goes back to the original text as
well). It starts out with:

   SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support SFC

   OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set,


but then later says:

   Forwarding OAM

   packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM

   procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can

   result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to

   analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions

   prior to enabling this behavior.

The inconsistency is that forwarding OAM packets without supporting OAM
procedures is clearly not recommended without analysis of the impact.
However, since discarding is only a SHOULD for an implementation, not a
MUST, the operator may not have a choice in the matter, since the vendor
may not have implemented discarding at all.

Thus, discarding should be a MUST in the absence of setting the
configurable parameter. The configurable parameter would then allow the
operator to modify the discarding behavior if they wish, following their
analysis.

Cheers,
Andy




On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 3:58 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Andy, all,
>
>
>
> The reason we had =C2=AB SHOULD =C2=BB is because we allow for a configur=
able
> parameter.
>
>
>
> From that standpoint, I do personally prefer this change that takes into
> account your comment:
>
>
>
> OLD:
>
>
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame>]).
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>
>    disabled by default.
>
>
>
>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
>
>
> NEW:
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame>]).
>
>
>
>    The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>
>    disabled by default.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Andrew G. Malis
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 7 juillet 2017 23:51
> *=C3=80 :* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> *Cc :* Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern; James N Guichard; Dave Dolson;
> sfc@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99
> in Prague]
>
>
>
> Carlos,
>
>
>
> I would support that revision, and perhaps even make it stronger, into a
> MUST. But I could live with SHOULD.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy for the follow-up!
>
>
>
> I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful and simplifies the
> overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to include =E2=80=
=9Cunless
> otherwise specified, implementations SHOULD discard packets with the O bi=
t
> set.=E2=80=9D (as this was important to the WG during earlier discussions=
)
>
>
>
> And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9CO-bi=
t=E2=80=9D. I will make this
> change for now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Joel et al,
>
>
>
> The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it i=
s
> required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it what
> extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by
> keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we address
> various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the differe=
nt
> situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.
>
>
>
> This was exactly the point of my proposed text change, to reflect that we
> don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occur. However, after c=
atching up
> on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state that the
> definition of an =E2=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit =
set, and leave it
> at that.
>
>
>
> Also, because the details of the forwarding and processing of OAM packets
> is outside the scope of this document, so should be the details of any
> optional parameters that modify that processing.
>
>
>
> So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM paragraphs with:
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-=
frame>]). The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>
>    set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
> FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=80=9CO bi=
t=E2=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care which, but we should be con=
sistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to
> leave that decision to the editors.
>
>
>
> Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly offlin=
e for the
> last few days.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
>
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
>
>

--001a113f1dccb6b4360553f51711
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Med,<div><br></div><div>The first two paragraphs look grea=
t, thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>The third paragraph is inconsistent (th=
is goes back to the original text as well). It starts out with:</div><div><=
br></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Cla=
ssifier implementations that do not support SFC<u></u><u></u></span></p><sp=
an class=3D"gmail-im"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedur=
es SHOULD discard packets with O bit set,</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#=
39;"><br></span></p><div>but then later says:</div><div><br></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#=
39;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Forwarding OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);fo=
nt-size:12.800000190734863px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;=
font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may be acceptabl=
e for a subset of OAM functions, but can<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#=
39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is reco=
mmended to<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rg=
b(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the im=
pact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;fon=
t-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;"></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.800000190734863px"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#39;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior =
to enabling this behavior.</span></p></span><span class=3D"gmail-im"><div><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&#39;Courier New&#3=
9;"><br></span></div></span></div><div><div>The inconsistency is that forwa=
rding OAM packets without supporting OAM procedures is clearly not recommen=
ded without analysis of the impact. However, since discarding is only a SHO=
ULD for an implementation, not a MUST, the operator may not have a choice i=
n the matter, since the vendor may not have implemented discarding at all.<=
/div></div><div><br></div><div>Thus, discarding should be a MUST in the abs=
ence of setting the configurable parameter. The configurable parameter woul=
d then allow the operator to modify the discarding behavior if they wish, f=
ollowing their analysis.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</d=
iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 3:58 AM,  <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D=
"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-9121499113266146506WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Andy, all,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The reason we had =C2=AB=C2=A0S=
HOULD=C2=A0=C2=BB is because we allow for a configurable parameter.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">From that standpoint, I do pers=
onally prefer this change that takes into account your comment: =C2=A0<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">OLD:<u></u><u></u></span></p><s=
pan class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indica=
tes an Operations, Administration, and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packe=
t.=C2=A0 The actual packet format and processing of<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM messages is outside th=
e scope of this specification (see<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">oam-frame</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]).<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer imp=
lementations that do not support SFC<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D=
"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard =
packets with O-bit set, but MAY support<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a configurable parameter to en=
able forwarding received SFC OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified to the next=
 element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elem=
ents that do not support SFC OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may be acceptable f=
or a subset of OAM functions, but can<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes =
for others, thus it is recommended to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the impact of forwardi=
ng an OAM packet for all OAM functions<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior to enabling this behavio=
r.=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled by default.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST be set f=
or OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST =
NOT be modified along the SFP.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">NEW:<u></u><u></u></span></p><s=
pan class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indica=
tes an Operations, Administration, and<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=
=A0 The actual format and processing of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM packets is outside the=
 scope of this specification (see<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">oam-frame</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]).<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The O bit MUST be set for OAM =
packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST =
NOT be modified along the SFP.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classi=
fier implementations that do not support SFC<u></u><u></u></span></p><span =
class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard =
packets with O bit set, but MAY support<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a configurable paramete=
r to enable forwarding received SFC OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=
=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified to the next=
 element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elem=
ents that do not support SFC OAM<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may be acceptable f=
or a subset of OAM functions, but can<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes =
for others, thus it is recommended to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the impact of forwardi=
ng an OAM packet for all OAM functions<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior to enabling this behavio=
r.=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled by default.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Andrew G. Malis<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 7 juillet 2017 23:51<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern; James N Guichard; Dave Dolso=
n; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at=
 IETF 99 in Prague]<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Carlos,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would support that revision, and perhaps even make=
 it stronger, into a MUST. But I could live with SHOULD.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Andy for the follow-up! <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful =
and simplifies the overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to=
 include =E2=80=9Cunless otherwise specified, implementations SHOULD discar=
d=C2=A0packets with the O bit set.=E2=80=9D (as this was
 important to the WG during earlier discussions)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D ins=
tead of =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I will make this change for now.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Carlos.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joel et al, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH proces=
sing entity that it is required to do extra work.=C2=A0 The point of the bi=
t is NOT to tell it what extra work is required, or where to look for extra=
 information. And by keeping that separation,
 we get significant flexibility in how we address various cases.=C2=A0 And =
we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the different situations, and set=
 the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This was exactly the point of my proposed text chang=
e, to reflect that we don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occ=
ur. However, after catching up on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we=
 can simply state that the definition of an
 =E2=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit set, and leave it =
at that.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, because the details of the forwarding and proc=
essing of OAM packets is outside the scope of this document, so should be t=
he details of any optional parameters that modify that processing.<u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM pa=
ragraphs with:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administ=
ration, and<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual format and pro=
cessing of<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specificatio=
n (see<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ns=
h-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank">oam-frame</a>]). The O bit MUST be se=
t for OAM packets and MUST NOT be=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified a=
long the SFP.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide =
bewteen =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99=
t care which, but we should be consistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to leave that =
decision to the editors.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99=
ve been mostly offline for the last few days.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=E2=80=94<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><b=
r>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113f1dccb6b4360553f51711--


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:58:05 -0400
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To: "BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>,  "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Med,

Sigh, I see Adrian=E2=80=99s point as well. Thanks for reminding me of his =
email.
:-)

So I=E2=80=99m OK with your revision.

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 8:08 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Andy,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 10 juillet 2017 13:43
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
> *Cc :* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern; James N
> Guichard; Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99
> in Prague]
>
>
>
> Med,
>
>
>
> The first two paragraphs look great, thanks.
>
>
>
> The third paragraph is inconsistent (this goes back to the original text
> as well).
>
>
>
> It starts out with:
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set,
>
> but then later says:
>
>
>
>    Forwarding OAM
>
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>
>    prior to enabling this behavior.
>
>
>
> The inconsistency is that forwarding OAM packets without supporting OAM
> procedures is clearly not recommended without analysis of the impact.
>
> [Med] The rationale was to disable forwarding such packets by default=E2=
=80=A6but
> if under some deployments and after local assessment, that default behavi=
or
> can be changed. We included in that text sufficient warrants.
>
>
>
> However, since discarding is only a SHOULD for an implementation, not a
> MUST, the operator may not have a choice in the matter, since the vendor
> may not have implemented discarding at all.
>
> [Med] We used to have this wording in an earlier version of the NSH
> specification (-10) :
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations, which do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures, SHALL discard packets with O-bit set.
>
>
>
> We agreed to change SHALL to SHOULD as per this discussion:
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/current/msg05624.html. I don=E2=
=80=99t
> think we need to (re)play that discussion.
>
>
>
> Thus, discarding should be a MUST in the absence of setting the
> configurable parameter. The configurable parameter would then allow the
> operator to modify the discarding behavior if they wish, following their
> analysis.
>
> [Med] I hear you. This was my opinion too, but I changed my opinion on
> this based on the comment from Adrian.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 3:58 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Andy, all,
>
>
>
> The reason we had =C2=AB SHOULD =C2=BB is because we allow for a configur=
able
> parameter.
>
>
>
> From that standpoint, I do personally prefer this change that takes into
> account your comment:
>
>
>
> OLD:
>
>
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual packet format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM messages is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame>]).
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer implementations that do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O-bit set, but MAY support
>
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>
>    disabled by default.
>
>
>
>    The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  The O-bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
>
>
> NEW:
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame>]).
>
>
>
>    The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
>    SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support SFC
>
>    OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set, but MAY support
>
>    a configurable parameter to enable forwarding received SFC OAM
>
>    packets unmodified to the next element in the chain.  Forwarding OAM
>
>    packets unmodified by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM
>
>    procedures may be acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can
>
>    result in unexpected outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to
>
>    analyze the impact of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions
>
>    prior to enabling this behavior.  The configurable parameter MUST be
>
>    disabled by default.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Andrew G. Malis
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 7 juillet 2017 23:51
> *=C3=80 :* Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
> *Cc :* Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern; James N Guichard; Dave Dolson;
> sfc@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99
> in Prague]
>
>
>
> Carlos,
>
>
>
> I would support that revision, and perhaps even make it stronger, into a
> MUST. But I could live with SHOULD.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
> cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Andy for the follow-up!
>
>
>
> I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful and simplifies the
> overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to include =E2=80=
=9Cunless
> otherwise specified, implementations SHOULD discard packets with the O bi=
t
> set.=E2=80=9D (as this was important to the WG during earlier discussions=
)
>
>
>
> And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9CO-bi=
t=E2=80=9D. I will make this
> change for now.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Joel et al,
>
>
>
> The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH processing entity that it i=
s
> required to do extra work.  The point of the bit is NOT to tell it what
> extra work is required, or where to look for extra information. And by
> keeping that separation, we get significant flexibility in how we address
> various cases.  And we can evaluate the behaviors we want for the differe=
nt
> situations, and set the bit appropriately for our desired behavior.
>
>
>
> This was exactly the point of my proposed text change, to reflect that we
> don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occur. However, after c=
atching up
> on the discussion, my reaction is perhaps we can simply state that the
> definition of an =E2=80=9COAM packet=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit =
set, and leave it
> at that.
>
>
>
> Also, because the details of the forwarding and processing of OAM packets
> is outside the scope of this document, so should be the details of any
> optional parameters that modify that processing.
>
>
>
> So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM paragraphs with:
>
>
>
>    O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administration, and
>
>    Maintenance (OAM) packet.  The actual format and processing of
>
>    SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specification (see
>
>    [oam-frame <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-=
frame>]). The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be
>
>    set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified along the SFP.
>
>
>
> FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide bewteen =E2=80=9CO bi=
t=E2=80=9D and
> =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t care which, but we should be con=
sistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to
> leave that decision to the editors.
>
>
>
> Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99ve been mostly offlin=
e for the
> last few days.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=94
>
> Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com
>
> *=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself
> sound more photosynthesis."*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Med,<div><br></div><div>Sigh, I see Adrian=E2=80=99s point=
 as well. Thanks for reminding me of his email. :-)</div><div><br></div><di=
v>So I=E2=80=99m OK with your revision.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</d=
iv><div>Andy</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 8:08 AM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohame=
d.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-1913943985773526426WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Andy,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Andr=
ew G. Malis [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
agmalis@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 10 juillet 2017 13:43<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata); Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern;=
 James N Guichard; Dave Dolson; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><span class=3D""><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at=
 IETF 99 in Prague]<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Med,<u></u><u></u></p><span class=3D"">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The first two paragraphs look great, thanks.<u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The third paragraph is inconsistent (this goes back =
to the original text as well).<span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">It starts out with:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier im=
plementations that do not support SFC</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard =
packets with O bit set,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">but then later says:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0 =C2=A0Forwarding OAM</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodifi=
ed by SFC elements that do not support SFC OAM</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may b=
e acceptable for a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpe=
cted outcomes for others, thus it is recommended to</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the impa=
ct of forwarding an OAM packet for all OAM functions</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#500050">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior to enablin=
g this behavior.</span><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt;color:#500050"><u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</span><div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The inconsistency is that forwarding OAM packets wit=
hout supporting OAM procedures is clearly not recommended without analysis =
of the impact.<span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] The rationale was =
to disable forwarding such packets by default=E2=80=A6but if under some dep=
loyments and after local assessment, that default behavior can
 be changed. We included in that text sufficient warrants. =C2=A0<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">However, since discarding is on=
ly a SHOULD for an implementation, not a MUST, the operator may not have a =
choice in the matter, since the vendor may not have implemented discarding =
at all.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] We used to have th=
is wording in an earlier version of the NSH specification (-10) :
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer imp=
lementations, which do not support SFC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures, SHALL discard =
packets with O-bit set.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">We agreed to change SHALL to SH=
OULD as per this discussion:
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sfc/current/msg05624.html"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mail-<wbr>archive/web/sfc/current/<=
wbr>msg05624.html</a>. I don=E2=80=99t think we need to (re)play that discu=
ssion. =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thus, discarding should be a MU=
ST in the absence of setting the configurable parameter. The configurable p=
arameter would then allow the operator to modify the discarding behavior if=
 they wish, following their analysis.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">[Med] I hear you. This w=
as my opinion too, but I changed my opinion on this based on the comment fr=
om Adrian.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 3:58 AM, &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Andy, all,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The reason we had =C2=AB=C2=A0S=
HOULD=C2=A0=C2=BB is because we allow for a configurable parameter.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">From that standpoint, I do pers=
onally prefer this change that takes into account your comment:
 =C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">OLD:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indica=
tes an Operations, Administration, and</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=
=A0 The actual packet format and processing of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM messages is outside th=
e scope of this specification (see</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">oam-frame</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]).</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifer imp=
lementations that do not support SFC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard =
packets with O-bit set, but MAY support</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a configurable parameter to en=
able forwarding received SFC OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified to the next=
 element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elem=
ents that do not support SFC OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may be acceptable f=
or a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes =
for others, thus it is recommended to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the impact of forwardi=
ng an OAM packet for all OAM functions</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior to enabling this behavio=
r.=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled by default.</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST be set for OAM =
packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 The O-bit MUST =
NOT be modified along the SFP.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">NEW:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indica=
tes an Operations, Administration, and</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=
=A0 The actual format and processing of</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM packets is outside the=
 scope of this specification (see</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://tools.iet=
f.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">oam-frame</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">]).</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The O bit MUST be set for OAM =
packets and MUST NOT be set for non-OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 The O bit MUST =
NOT be modified along the SFP.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier im=
plementations that do not support SFC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM procedures SHOULD discard =
packets with O bit set, but MAY support</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a configurable parameter to en=
able forwarding received SFC OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified to the next=
 element in the chain.=C2=A0 Forwarding OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets unmodified by SFC elem=
ents that do not support SFC OAM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 procedures may be acceptable f=
or a subset of OAM functions, but can</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 result in unexpected outcomes =
for others, thus it is recommended to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 analyze the impact of forwardi=
ng an OAM packet for all OAM functions</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 prior to enabling this behavio=
r.=C2=A0 The configurable parameter MUST be</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 disabled by default.</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De=C2=A0:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Andrew G. Malis<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 7 juillet 2017 23:51<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky; Joel M. Halpern; James N Guichard; Dave Dolso=
n; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at=
 IETF 99 in Prague]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Carlos,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would support that revision, and perhaps even make=
 it stronger, into a MUST. But I could live with SHOULD.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cp=
ignata) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignat=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks Andy for the follow-up!
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I do not oppose this proposal. I think it is useful =
and simplifies the overall definition of the OAM bit. It might be useful to=
 include =E2=80=9Cunless otherwise specified, implementations
 SHOULD discard=C2=A0packets with the O bit set.=E2=80=9D (as this was impo=
rtant to the WG during earlier discussions)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">And yes, I suggest using =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D ins=
tead of =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I will make this change for now.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Carlos.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Joel et al,
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The point of the bit is that it tells the NSH proces=
sing entity that it is required to do extra work.=C2=A0 The point of the bi=
t is NOT to tell it what extra work is required, or where
 to look for extra information. And by keeping that separation, we get sign=
ificant flexibility in how we address various cases.=C2=A0 And we can evalu=
ate the behaviors we want for the different situations, and set the bit app=
ropriately for our desired behavior.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This was exactly the point of my proposed text chang=
e, to reflect that we don=E2=80=99t yet know where OAM information will occ=
ur. However, after catching up on the discussion, my reaction
 is perhaps we can simply state that the definition of an =E2=80=9COAM pack=
et=E2=80=9D is a packet with the O bit set, and leave it at that.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, because the details of the forwarding and proc=
essing of OAM packets is outside the scope of this document, so should be t=
he details of any optional parameters that modify
 that processing.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So I now propose replacing the existing three OAM pa=
ragraphs with:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit: Setting this bit indicates an Operations, Administ=
ration, and<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Maintenance (OAM) packet.=C2=A0 The actual format and pro=
cessing of<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM packets is outside the scope of this specificatio=
n (see<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ns=
h-13#ref-oam-frame" target=3D"_blank">oam-frame</a>]). The O bit MUST be se=
t for OAM packets and MUST NOT be=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0=C2=A0 set for non-OAM packets. The O bit MUST NOT be modified a=
long the SFP.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">FInally, I want to reiterate that we need to decide =
bewteen =E2=80=9CO bit=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CO-bit=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99=
t care which, but we should be consistent. I=E2=80=99m happy to leave that =
decision to the editors.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, sorry for the delayed response, but I=E2=80=99=
ve been mostly offline for the last few days.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=E2=80=94</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">Carlos Pignataro,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">carlos@cisco.com</a><b=
r>
<br>
<i>=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to ma=
ke myself sound more=C2=A0photosynthesis.&quot;</i></span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113ccd8e87369f0553f6232a--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Dave Dolson" <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 15:34:39 +0000
Message-ID: <F7C19808-E02D-436B-B6D3-D41A04BE10FD@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh [Was: Meeting at IETF 99 in Prague]
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:58:21 +0000
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Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6XCHRTP006ciscocom_--


From nobody Fri Jul 14 11:24:51 2017
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From: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
Thread-Index: AdL8yGj6ijlxPpxFQhyonVi4uiBr2QABYlRQ
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:24:42 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On=
 Behalf Of
</b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62SJCEML702CHMchina_--


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [mai=
lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316wtlexchp2sandvi_--


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To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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I find myself torn.  (And speaking personally in all that follows.)

There are actually two issues buried onder here.
Unless the reverse SFP is set up, and is congurent, the forwarding state 
may not exist.
Congruent reverse is only required when the nature of the SFP is such 
that reverse traffic must go through the same seqeunce of SFs, albeit in 
the reverse order, as the forward traffic.  That is not mandatory.  Even 
if some elements are common (as for example a TCP proxy), that doe snot 
mean that all are common and that full congruence is required.

To make this clearer, given an SFP that goes through SFFs A, B, and C, 
there is no requirement that SFF B have forwarding state for any 
specific SPI / SI to take reverse traffic.

So one of the points is to be explicit that a backwards path needs to be 
established (by control, routing, magic, ...) from those entities which 
need to send such reverse packets.  Which means that someone has to be 
able to determine where that is required.

Now, if we assume that piece of knowledge gets communicated, and the 
path is established, the quesiton you are asking is how to identify that 
reverse path.

I take Dave's point that there is a simplicity and efficiency in using 
the same SPI.  I find it conflicts with my personal view on how SPIs 
work.  But that is my problem, not the WGs.  The strong argument in 
favor is in fact that there can only be 64 different SIs in each 
direction, so there is plenty of room to keep things far enough apart 
that accidental wrap is not possible.

Net: using the SI grates on my nerves, but is probably sufficiently 
robust that it is a very reasonable choice.

Yours,
Joel


On 7/14/17 2:50 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:
> There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends 
> on **both** SPI and SI.
> 
> So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the 
> range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
> 
> The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
> 
> As I see it, Kent’s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the 
> same SPI used for two directions?
> 
> Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming 
> only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
> 
> It may make debugging easier as well.
> 
> Also, for what it’s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 
> at a previous IETF hackathon.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi Kent,
> 
> [personal opinion …] I have always assumed that the service path ID 
> would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid 
> collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c 
> and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho 
> will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the 
> same service path ID is used in both directions.
> 
> Jim
> 
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung (kleung)
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed 
> solution options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem 
> to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there 
> are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service Path ID and using 
> Service Index to determine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is 
> based on setting high order bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow 
> direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed opinions. One reason is that 
> there may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No 
> explicit wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe 
> we missed something?
> 
> If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is 
> easy (=> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough 
> consensus and revised the next version with that solution. This problem 
> is critical to address for Service Function that generate packet in 
> reverse direction, especially security service functions as mentioned in 
> draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kent
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Thanks for clarifying that in the case of same service path ID for both flo=
ws of a connection, the service index range is partitioned as described in =
sect. 5.4.1. I'm not sure if this is purely "aesthetics" as there may be as=
sumption that service path ID identifies the direction of the flow. The mea=
ning of service index is the sequence of service functions in the path. The=
re are two distinct flows and each flow follows a path. That's why I lean t=
oward sect. 5.4.2 (unique service path ID per flow/direction). But I can be=
 convinced to using one service path ID. :)

Kent

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 8:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kl=
eung@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Thanks for clarifying that in the case of same service path ID for bo=
th flows of a connection, the service index range is partitioned as describ=
ed in sect. 5.4.1. I&#8217;m not sure if this
 is purely &#8220;aesthetics&#8221; as there may be assumption that service=
 path ID identifies the direction of the flow. The meaning of service index=
 is the sequence of service functions in the path. There are two distinct f=
lows and each flow follows a path. That&#8217;s why
 I lean toward sect. 5.4.2 (unique service path ID per flow/direction). But=
 I can be convinced to using one service path ID.
</span></a><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span></span><span style=3D"mso-bookmark=
:_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 8:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@huawei.com&gt;; Kent Leung=
 (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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To: Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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The current architecture and the current NSH document both avoid any 
discussion of or implication of using a MASK applied to the SP-ID.  It 
is a large field because of the range of use cases that were requested 
to be supported (some of which use a large number of service function paths.

Evne this use is compatible with using the full SP-ID and SI as the 
lookup keys for the forwarding decision.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/14/17 4:28 PM, Sumandra Majee wrote:
> Fundamentally it is all about how divide up the SPI+SI space.
> 
> However, we like the service path SPI to be unique per direction. If the 
> forward and reverse path reversing the order of traversal then use a bit 
> flag (simple algorithmic) to derive the reverse SPI. This is sort of how 
> our implementation works today.
> 
> While we are at SPI bitfield allocation topic, 24 bit is quite a lot, 
> apologies if it has been disused earlier.
> 
> I am sure implementers would use many of those bits for various other 
> things, in that case SFF needs to know the MASK flag to separate out 
> forwarding table pointer.
> 
> SPI-fwding-tablePtr = SP & MASK
> 
> *From: *sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Dave Dolson 
> <ddolson@sandvine.com>
> *Date: *Friday, July 14, 2017 at 11:50 AM
> *To: *James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung 
> (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends 
> on **both** SPI and SI.
> 
> So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the 
> range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
> 
> The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
> 
> As I see it, Kentâ€™s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the 
> same SPI used for two directions?
> 
> Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming 
> only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
> 
> It may make debugging easier as well.
> 
> Also, for what itâ€™s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 
> at a previous IETF hackathon.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi Kent,
> 
> [personal opinion â€¦] I have always assumed that the service path ID 
> would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid 
> collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c 
> and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho 
> will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the 
> same service path ID is used in both directions.
> 
> Jim
> 
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung (kleung)
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed 
> solution options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem 
> to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there 
> are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service Path ID and using 
> Service Index to determine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is 
> based on setting high order bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow 
> direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed opinions. One reason is that 
> there may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No 
> explicit wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe 
> we missed something?
> 
> If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is 
> easy (=> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough 
> consensus and revised the next version with that solution. This problem 
> is critical to address for Service Function that generate packet in 
> reverse direction, especially security service functions as mentioned in 
> draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kent
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:12:27 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <e063629f-b3a0-cdbf-6450-3a442399a720@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Joel,
Both of the algorithmic approaches discussed need to make assumptions about=
 the symmetry of the reverse path. (Same SFs, in reverse order.)

-Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]=20
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 4:08 PM
To: Dave Dolson; James N Guichard; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I find myself torn.  (And speaking personally in all that follows.)

There are actually two issues buried onder here.
Unless the reverse SFP is set up, and is congurent, the forwarding state ma=
y not exist.
Congruent reverse is only required when the nature of the SFP is such that =
reverse traffic must go through the same seqeunce of SFs, albeit in the rev=
erse order, as the forward traffic.  That is not mandatory.  Even if some e=
lements are common (as for example a TCP proxy), that doe snot mean that al=
l are common and that full congruence is required.

To make this clearer, given an SFP that goes through SFFs A, B, and C, ther=
e is no requirement that SFF B have forwarding state for any specific SPI /=
 SI to take reverse traffic.

So one of the points is to be explicit that a backwards path needs to be es=
tablished (by control, routing, magic, ...) from those entities which need =
to send such reverse packets.  Which means that someone has to be able to d=
etermine where that is required.

Now, if we assume that piece of knowledge gets communicated, and the path i=
s established, the quesiton you are asking is how to identify that reverse =
path.

I take Dave's point that there is a simplicity and efficiency in using the =
same SPI.  I find it conflicts with my personal view on how SPIs work.  But=
 that is my problem, not the WGs.  The strong argument in favor is in fact =
that there can only be 64 different SIs in each direction, so there is plen=
ty of room to keep things far enough apart that accidental wrap is not poss=
ible.

Net: using the SI grates on my nerves, but is probably sufficiently robust =
that it is a very reasonable choice.

Yours,
Joel


On 7/14/17 2:50 PM, Dave Dolson wrote:
> There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding=20
> depends on **both** SPI and SI.
>=20
> So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the=20
> range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same S=
PI.
>=20
> The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
>=20
> As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the=20
> same SPI used for two directions?
>=20
> Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming=20
> only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
>=20
> It may make debugging easier as well.
>=20
> Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section=20
> 5.4.1 at a previous IETF hackathon.
>=20
> -Dave
>=20
> *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N=20
> Guichard
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for=20
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>=20
> Hi Kent,
>=20
> [personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID=20
> would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid=20
> collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC=20
> a-b-c and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c=20
> (which imho will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a=20
> conflict if the same service path ID is used in both directions.
>=20
> Jim
>=20
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung=20
> (kleung)
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
> *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for=20
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>=20
> Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed=20
> solution options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks=20
> seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However,=20
> there are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service Path ID and=20
> using Service Index to determine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The=20
> other is based on setting high order bit on Serve Path ID, which=20
> determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed opinions. One=20
> reason is that there may be the assumption the Service Path ID is=20
> uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has been=20
> encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?
>=20
> If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is=20
> easy (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough=20
> consensus and revised the next version with that solution. This=20
> problem is critical to address for Service Function that generate=20
> packet in reverse direction, especially security service functions as=20
> mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> Kent
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>=20


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From: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kl=
eung@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

--_000_BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8SJCEML702CHMchina_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@huawei.com&gt;; Kent Leung=
 (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Good discussion. I hope to correctly capture the preference of folks who ha=
d chimed in on this topic. It doesn't seem we've reached rough consensus.

Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):


-          Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo

Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):


-          Dave, Joel

BTW, I think both methods can support asymmetric paths as described in sect=
. 4.

Kent


From: James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2017 1:09 AM
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.c=
om>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Good discussion. I hope to correctly capture the preference of folks =
who had chimed in on this topic. It doesn&#8217;t seem we&#8217;ve reached =
rough consensus.
<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indic=
ates flow direction):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><![if !supportLists]><=
span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sumandra, Jim,=
 Kent, Renaldo<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow=
 direction):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><![if !supportLists]><=
span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dave, Joel<o:p=
></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">BTW, I think both methods can support asymmetric pat=
hs as described in sect. 4.
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guicha=
rd@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 15, 2017 1:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Dolson &lt;ddolson@sandvine.com&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &l=
t;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 20:10:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Sorry. Corrected below.

Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):


-          Dave, Joel

Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):


-          Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo





From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:38 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sa=
ndvine.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Good discussion. I hope to correctly capture the preference of folks who ha=
d chimed in on this topic. It doesn't seem we've reached rough consensus.

Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):


-          Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo

Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):


-          Dave, Joel

BTW, I think both methods can support asymmetric paths as described in sect=
. 4.

Kent


From: James N Guichard [mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2017 1:09 AM
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com<mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>; Kent L=
eung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org<mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Sorry. Corrected below.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indic=
ates flow direction):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><![if !supportLists]><=
span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dave, Joel<o:p=
></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow=
 direction):<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
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1 lfo2"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><![if !supportLists]><=
span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sumandra, Jim,=
 Kent, Renaldo<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On=
 Behalf Of
</b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 16, 2017 1:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@huawei.com&gt;; Dave Dolso=
n &lt;ddolson@sandvine.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Good discussion. I hop=
e to correctly capture the preference of folks who had chimed in on this to=
pic. It doesn&#8217;t seem we&#8217;ve reached rough consensus.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.1 (one servic=
e path ID, service index indicates flow direction):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sumandra, Jim,=
 Kent, Renaldo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sect 5.4.2 (two servic=
e path IDs, each indicate flow direction):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dave, Joel<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">BTW, I think both meth=
ods can support asymmetric paths as described in sect. 4.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> James N Guichard [<a href=3D"mailto:jam=
es.n.guichard@huawei.com">mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 15, 2017 1:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com">ddolson@=
sandvine.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisc=
o.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_aaa15a7d6bc8494cba2562ab04a103bdXCHRTP006ciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Jul 17 00:14:44 2017
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

        Title           : Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC)
        Authors         : David Dolson
                          Shunsuke Homma
                          Diego R. Lopez
                          Mohamed Boucadair
                          Dapeng Liu
                          Ting Ao
                          Vu Anh Vu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-04.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2017-07-17

Abstract:
   Hierarchical Service Function Chaining (hSFC) is a network
   architecture allowing an organization to decompose a large-scale
   network into multiple domains of administration.

   The goals of hSFC are to make a large-scale network easier to reason
   about, simpler to control and to support independent functional
   groups within large network operators.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-hierarchical-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From nobody Mon Jul 17 00:20:58 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Paul Quinn
                          Uri Elzur
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2017-07-16

Abstract:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
Thread-Index: AQHS/tsQSwB+odO/fE2BHE2d9NianA==
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:59:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:

Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
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</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each dir=
ection simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the pack=
ets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on =
SPI.</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Regards,</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad</div>
<div><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<br>
<br>
</div>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>sfc mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--_000_F241AD1DA0074AC7A2B019550F1FF52Cciscocom_--


From nobody Mon Jul 17 04:30:08 2017
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To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <8cb54041-bc79-868e-f302-c7625e472146@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:30:06 -0400
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Subject: [sfc] Advancing the NSH document
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Draft -14 has been posted this morning.  As far as the chairs can tell, 
this resolves the items mentioned since the posting of -13, and 
therefore resolves all WG comments (with rough consensus; we understand 
that there are still pieces individuals would like to see changed.)

Below is the shepherd writeup I expect to submit as part of the handoff 
to Alia for moving this document forward.


Essay format shepherd writeup for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14

The writeup is being prepared by one of the working group co-chairs, 
Joel Halpern.   It is prepared for consideration by the community, the 
IESG, and the responsible AD, Alia Atlas.

This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto 
packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also provides 
a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated ervice path. 
NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the Service Function 
Chaining (SFC) Architecture (defined in RFC7665).

The working group is requesting that this packet format and handling 
information be published as a Proposed Standard RFC.  It defines an 
interoperable mechanism to achieve the stated goals.

There are multiple corporate and open source implementations of this 
protocol.

The working group has had many discussions on this document.  Many 
individuals from many companies have helped bring together this 
solution.  Over the last 9 months significant effort has gone into 
fixing issues raised by earlier reviews.  While there is still some 
disagreement, all technical limitations are identified in the document 
and dealt with in fashions acceptable to the rough consensus of the 
working group.

As required by IETF process, all front page editors have explicitly 
confirmed that there is no undisclosed relevant IPR.

This document does normatively reference and build upon RFC 7665, which 
is an informational RFC published by the working group.


Thank you,
Joel (and Jim)


From nobody Mon Jul 17 04:47:32 2017
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14.txt
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SFC,

This revision catches up with all the pending edits and updates as discusse=
d and agreed on the list.=20

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 9:21 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@=
ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.
>=20
>        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
>        Authors         : Paul Quinn
>                          Uri Elzur
>                          Carlos Pignataro
>    Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14.txt
>    Pages           : 32
>    Date            : 2017-07-16
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
>   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
>   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
>   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
>   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-nsh-14
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


From nobody Mon Jul 17 05:39:56 2017
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From: "Paul Quinn (paulq)" <paulq@cisco.com>
To: Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com>
CC: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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On Jul 14, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Sumandra Majee <S.Majee@F5.com<mailto:S.Majee@=
F5.com>> wrote:

Fundamentally it is all about how divide up the SPI+SI space.
However, we like the service path SPI to be unique per direction.

I do as well.  It's simple and allows an operator to easily troubleshoot a =
path.


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<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Jul 14, 2017, at 4:28 PM, Sumandra Majee &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:S.Majee@F5.com" class=3D"">S.Majee@F5.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: Helve=
tica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-=
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<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
Fundamentally it is all about how divide up the SPI&#43;SI space.<o:p class=
=3D""></o:p></div>
<div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">
However, we like the service path SPI to be unique per direction.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div>I do as well. &nbsp;It's simple and allows an operator to easily troub=
leshoot a path.</div>
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictly, stats should=
 be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I can see how folk=
s might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roberta =
Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree on the operational aspect: having different =
SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as stat=
istics on the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displa=
yed just based on SPI.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">&nbsp;</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [<a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:29:12 +0000
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Subject: [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing SF for flow offload. Sk=
ipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decremented by SFF.  But thi=
s is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC architecture is based on SFF =
forwarding based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF=
 or SFC Proxy).

draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:

Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP.  The initial
   classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set the SI to 255, however the
   control plane MAY configure the initial value of SI as appropriate
   (i.e., taking into account the length of the service function path).
   Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service
   Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services
   and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH
   packet.

Should the draft be updated with description on how the flow is forwarded t=
hrough the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI? Or some other method =
to support offload?

Kent


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing =
SF for flow offload. Skipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decre=
mented by SFF.&nbsp; But this is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC a=
rchitecture is based on SFF forwarding
 based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF or SFC Pr=
oxy). <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP=
.&nbsp; The initial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set t=
he SI to 255, however the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; control plane MAY configure the initial=
 value of SI as appropriate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; (i.e., taking into account the length o=
f the service function path).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Service Index MUST be decremented by a =
value of 1 by Service<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after p=
erforming required services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; and the new decremented SI value MUST b=
e used in the egress NSH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Should the draft be updated with description on how =
the flow is forwarded through the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI=
? Or some other method to support offload?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
Thread-Index: AdL8yGj6ijlxPpxFQhyonVi4uiBr2QABYlRQAACi1WAACSYE0ACB4IoAAAAW/OAAAPzOEA==
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:36:56 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Why can't there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI=
? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing counters f=
or all flows in each service path. The latter is provide counters for all f=
lows served at each hop in the service path.

Can you explain the "spiral" scenario and how that pertains to usefulness o=
f having per service path stats? Thanks.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n=
.guichard@huawei.com>
Cc: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Why can&#8217;t there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats fo=
r per SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providin=
g counters for all flows in each service path.
 The latter is provide counters for all flows served at each hop in the ser=
vice path.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Can you explain the &#8220;spiral&#8221; scenario an=
d how that pertains to usefulness of having per service path stats? Thanks.=
<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) &lt;robmgl@cisco.com&gt;; James N Guic=
hard &lt;james.n.guichard@huawei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictly, stats should=
 be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I can see how folk=
s might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [</spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:robmgl@cisco.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i=
etf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,san=
s-serif">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree on the operational aspect: having different =
SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as stat=
istics on the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displa=
yed just based on SPI.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [</span><a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">sfc@=
ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif">_______________________________________________<=
br>
sfc mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc"><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1XCHRTP006ciscocom_--


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From: Kyle Larose <klarose@sandvine.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:41:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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What if the SFF had a hidden "virtual" SF located inside it? Or is that str=
etching things too much...

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:59 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads

Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing SF for flow offload. Sk=
ipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decremented by SFF.  But thi=
s is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC architecture is based on SFF =
forwarding based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF=
 or SFC Proxy).

draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:

Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP.  The initial
   classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set the SI to 255, however the
   control plane MAY configure the initial value of SI as appropriate
   (i.e., taking into account the length of the service function path).
   Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service
   Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services
   and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH
   packet.

Should the draft be updated with description on how the flow is forwarded t=
hrough the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI? Or some other method =
to support offload?

Kent


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">What if the SFF had a =
hidden &#8220;virtual&#8221; SF located inside it? Or is that stretching th=
ings too much&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [mai=
lto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 6:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing =
SF for flow offload. Skipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decre=
mented by SFF.&nbsp; But this is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC a=
rchitecture is based on SFF forwarding
 based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF or SFC Pr=
oxy). <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP=
.&nbsp; The initial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set t=
he SI to 255, however the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; control plane MAY configure the initial=
 value of SI as appropriate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; (i.e., taking into account the length o=
f the service function path).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Service Index MUST be decremented by a =
value of 1 by Service<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after p=
erforming required services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; and the new decremented SI value MUST b=
e used in the egress NSH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Should the draft be updated with description on how =
the flow is forwarded through the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI=
? Or some other method to support offload?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Kyle Larose <klarose@sandvine.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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Subject: Re: [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads
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Hi Kyle. I personally think that's not stretching too much. Actually, there=
 are various use cases that would require a "virtual SF" like function in S=
FF. Please see draft-wang-sfc-receive-only as one of the use cases. In that=
 draft, the "Extended SFC Proxy" is performing the SI decrement and packet =
copy. This function is typically collocated in SFF. So I like your thought =
process ... :)

Kent


From: Kyle Larose [mailto:klarose@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:41 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads

What if the SFF had a hidden "virtual" SF located inside it? Or is that str=
etching things too much...

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:59 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads

Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing SF for flow offload. Sk=
ipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decremented by SFF.  But thi=
s is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC architecture is based on SFF =
forwarding based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF=
 or SFC Proxy).

draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:

Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP.  The initial
   classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set the SI to 255, however the
   control plane MAY configure the initial value of SI as appropriate
   (i.e., taking into account the length of the service function path).
   Service Index MUST be decremented by a value of 1 by Service
   Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after performing required services
   and the new decremented SI value MUST be used in the egress NSH
   packet.

Should the draft be updated with description on how the flow is forwarded t=
hrough the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI? Or some other method =
to support offload?

Kent


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Hi Kyle. I personally think that&#8217;s not stretching too much. Act=
ually, there are various use cases that would require a &#8220;virtual SF&#=
8221; like function in SFF. Please see draft-wang-sfc-receive-only
 as one of the use cases. In that draft, the &#8220;Extended SFC Proxy&#822=
1; is performing the SI decrement and packet copy. This function is typical=
ly collocated in SFF. So I like your thought process &#8230;
</span></a><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font=
-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span></span><span style=3D"mso-bookmark=
:_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Kyle Larose [mailto:klarose@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">What if the SFF had a =
hidden &#8220;virtual&#8221; SF located inside it? Or is that stretching th=
ings too much&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 6:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] forwarding clarification on draft-ietf-sfc-offloads<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. The draft-ietf-sfc-offloads describes bypassing =
SF for flow offload. Skipping a hop requires service index (SI) to be decre=
mented by SFF.&nbsp; But this is not covered in the draft. Currently, SFC a=
rchitecture is based on SFF forwarding
 based on service path ID and SI (which is only decremented by SF or SFC Pr=
oxy). <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Service Index (SI): provides location within the SFP=
.&nbsp; The initial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; classifier for a given SFP SHOULD set t=
he SI to 255, however the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; control plane MAY configure the initial=
 value of SI as appropriate<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; (i.e., taking into account the length o=
f the service function path).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Service Index MUST be decremented by a =
value of 1 by Service<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; Functions or by SFC Proxy nodes after p=
erforming required services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; and the new decremented SI value MUST b=
e used in the egress NSH<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp; packet. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Should the draft be updated with description on how =
the flow is forwarded through the service path? Should SFF decrement the SI=
? Or some other method to support offload?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_11416aae74eb40bc8e7318bf2720f341XCHRTP006ciscocom_--


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From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:59:11 +0000
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--_000_7B36C41AEBE1453EBB2504377E63B559ciscocom_--


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Subject: [sfc] CFP - Deadline extended to July 31st - The 3rd IEEE Workshop on Orchestration for Software-Defined Infrastructures (O4SDI)
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Please accept our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP

************************************************************************

                           3rd IEEE Workshop on
        Orchestration for Software-Defined Infrastructures (O4SDI)

http://o4sdi.unibo.it/o4sdi3

http://edas.info/N23770

        To be held in conjunction with the 2017 IEEE Conference on
      Network Function Virtualization and Software Defined Networks
                           (IEEE NFV-SDN 2017)
                   6th November 2017 // Berlin, Germany

************************************************************************

The  current  industry  trend   of  convergence  between computing  and
networking  eco-systems  clearly  shows   that  software  will play  an
unprecedented    dominant   role    also    in   future communication
environments. Computing, storage, and  connectivity services, as well as
any other present and future  application instances, will be deployed in
the form of virtualized  assets within a software-defined infrastructure
running on top of general-purpose processing and communication hardware,
all  managed  and  made  available   under  the  cloud  â€œAs  A Serviceâ€
paradigm.  This  technological  convergence and  infrastructure sharing
between the computing and communication  systems portend a scenario with
a  â€œfogâ€  of  micro-clouds  composed of  generalized  virtual functions
providing both  applications and network services  that supplement those
deployed in traditional cloud datacenters.

The   Third  IEEE   Workshop  on   Orchestration  for Software-Defined
Infrastructures (O4SDI)  addresses the  challenges that  will facilitate
orchestration and  programmability of  generalized virtual functions in
Software  Defined  Infrastructures  (SDI), enabling  cloud  and network
providers  to  deploy  integrated  services  across  different resource
domains. Orchestration  mechanisms will  facilitate the  live deployment
and lifecycle management  of these virtual elements,  at the application
level, the  server level, and the  network level within a  single domain
and across multiple  domains. Without such orchestration it  will not be
possible  to   enable  dynamic  establishment  of   generalized virtual
functions chains, according to service requirements.

These  challenges  of  orchestration   are  many-fold,  with many  open
questions that need to be addressed in the areas of:

-  network   "softwarization"  which  requires  unified management  of
    computing,  storage,   and  network   resources  for   the effective
    deployment,  lifecycle  management,  and  run-time configuration  of
    generalized virtual functions;

-  abstraction models  and open standard interfaces,  needed for assuring
    vendor interoperability;

-  adaptation and  optimization mechanisms,  which must  be enforced  at
    global and/or  local level for  coping with user  demand, application
    requirements, resource unavailability, etc.

O4SDI  aims at  providing  an international  forum  for researchers  and
practitioners from  academia, industry,  network operators,  and service
providers  to discuss  and  address the  challenges  deriving from  such
emerging scenario where  systems, processes, and workflows  used in both
computing  and  communications  domains  are  converging.  The workshop
welcomes contributions from both computing and network-oriented research
communities,    with    the     aim    of    facilitating discussion,
cross-fertilization   and  exchange   of   ideas   and practices,   and
successfully promote innovative solutions toward a real programmatic use
of  software-defined  infrastructures  as a  whole. Contributions  that
discuss lessons learnt and best practices, describe practical deployment
and implementation experiences, and demonstrate innovative use-cases are
especially encouraged for presentation and publication.

We are particularly interested in papers that cover, but are not limited
to, the following topics:

-  single domain and cross domain orchestration issues
-  integrated network and computing resource control and management
-  control and abstraction of heterogeneous networks
-  orchestration in SDN/NFV
-  run-time orchestration
-  orchestration for next-generation IP and optical networks
-  orchestration in 5G networks
-  QoS/QoE in software-defined infrastructures
-  orchestration for high-availability and resilience in
    software-defined infrastructures
-  intent-based orchestration
-  orchestration for fog computing and networking
-  dynamic service composition and delivery
-  network programmability for service chaining
-  orchestration of network slices and data center slices
-  software engineering and operating systems techniques applied
    to orchestration
-  description, specification, and abstraction languages for
    orchestration
-  optimal orchestration algorithms
-  context-aware orchestration
-  functional architectures of orchestrating elements
-  testbed experiments on orchestrations
-  performance evaluation of orchestration elements
-  standardization issues in orchestration
-  best practices in orchestration
- cloudified mobile networks
- softwarized platforms for verticals

Important Dates

- Workshop Paper Submission: July 31, 2017 (EXTENDED)
- Notification of Acceptance: August 31, 2017
- Camera-ready Submission: September 15, 2017


Paper submissions will be handled on-line through the EDAS system.

Submission link: http://edas.info/N23770

Prospective  authors  are  invited   to  submit  high-quality, original
technical papers for presentation at the workshop and publication in the
O4SDI Proceedings  and IEEE Xplore.  Papers must be written  in English,
unpublished and not  submitted elsewhere. Full papers  must be formatted
as  the  standard  IEEE  double-column conference  template.  All final
submissions should have a maximum paper  length of six (6) printed pages
(10-point font),  including figures,  without incurring additional page
charges.


Workshop Co-Chairs

- Stuart Clayman, University College London, UK - s.clayman@ucl.ac.uk
- Walter Cerroni, University of Bologna, Italy - walter.cerroni@unibo.it
- Barbara Martini, CNIT, Pisa, Italy - barbara.martini@cnit.it
- Federica Paganelli, CNIT, Firenze, Italy - federica.paganelli@cnit.it


Technical Program Committee

- Carlos Bernardos, Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Spain
- Giuseppe Bianchi, University of Rome Tor Vergata, Italy
- Amina Boubendir, Orange Labs, France
- Hakki Cankaya, Fujitsu Network Communications, USA
- Ramon Casellas, CTTC, Spain
- Maurizio Casoni, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Italy
- Piero Castoldi, Scuola Superiore Santâ€™Anna, Italy
- Prosper Chemouil, Orange Labs, France
- Chiara Contoli, University of Bologna, Italy
- Luca Foschini, University of Bologna, Italy
- Molka Gharbaoui, Scuola Superiore Santâ€™Anna, Itally
- Riccardo Guerzoni, DOCOMO Euro-labs, Germany
- Vatche Ishakian, Bentley University, USA
- Lefteris Mamatas, University of Macedonia, Greece
- Catalin Meirosu, Ericsson Research, Sweden
- Paolo Monti, KTH Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
- Jordi Ortiz, University of Murcia, Spain
- Fulvio Risso, Politecnico di Torino, Italy
- Javier Rubio-Loyola, CINVESTAV Tamaulipas, Mexico
- Stefano Secci, University Pierre et Marie Curie, France
- Joan Serrat, Universitat PolitÃ¨cnica de Catalunya, Spain
- Antonio Fernando Skarmeta Gomez, University of Murcia, Spain
- Mauro Tortonesi, University of Ferrara, Italy
- Daphne Tuncer, University College London, UK
- Ishan Vaishnavi, Huawei Technologies Dusseldorf GmBH, Germany
- Mohammed Faten Zhani, Ecole de Technologie Superieure, University of 
Quebec, Canada


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<html>
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    <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <p>Please accept our apologies if you receive multiple copies of
      this CFP <br>
      <br>
************************************************************************
      <br>
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  3rd IEEE Workshop on <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â  Orchestration for Software-Defined Infrastructures (O4SDI)
      <br>
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="http://o4sdi.unibo.it/o4sdi3">http://o4sdi.unibo.it/o4sdi3</a>
      <br>
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="http://edas.info/N23770">http://edas.info/N23770</a> <br>
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â  To be held in conjunction with the 2017 IEEE Conference on
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â  Network Function Virtualization and Software Defined Networks
      <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  (IEEE NFV-SDN 2017) <br>
      Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  6th November 2017 // Berlin, Germany <br>
      <br>
************************************************************************
      <br>
      <br>
      TheÂ  currentÂ  industryÂ  trendÂ Â  ofÂ  convergenceÂ  betweenÂ 
      computingÂ  and <br>
      networkingÂ  eco-systemsÂ  clearlyÂ  showsÂ Â  thatÂ  softwareÂ  willÂ 
      playÂ  an <br>
      unprecedentedÂ Â Â  dominantÂ Â  roleÂ Â Â  alsoÂ Â Â  inÂ Â  futureÂ Â Â 
      communication <br>
      environments. Computing, storage, andÂ  connectivity services, as
      well as <br>
      any other present and futureÂ  application instances, will be
      deployed in <br>
      the form of virtualizedÂ  assets within a software-defined
      infrastructure <br>
      running on top of general-purpose processing and communication
      hardware, <br>
      allÂ  managedÂ  andÂ  madeÂ  availableÂ Â  underÂ  theÂ  cloudÂ  â€œAsÂ  AÂ 
      Serviceâ€ <br>
      paradigm.Â  ThisÂ  technologicalÂ  convergence andÂ  infrastructureÂ 
      sharing <br>
      between the computing and communicationÂ  systems portend a
      scenario with <br>
      aÂ  â€œfogâ€Â  ofÂ  micro-cloudsÂ  composed ofÂ  generalizedÂ  virtualÂ 
      functions <br>
      providing bothÂ  applications and network servicesÂ  that supplement
      those <br>
      deployed in traditional cloud datacenters. <br>
      <br>
      TheÂ Â  ThirdÂ  IEEEÂ Â  WorkshopÂ  onÂ Â  OrchestrationÂ  forÂ Â 
      Software-Defined <br>
      Infrastructures (O4SDI)Â  addresses theÂ  challenges thatÂ  will
      facilitate <br>
      orchestration andÂ  programmability ofÂ  generalized virtualÂ 
      functions in <br>
      SoftwareÂ  DefinedÂ  InfrastructuresÂ  (SDI), enablingÂ  cloudÂ  andÂ 
      network <br>
      providersÂ  toÂ  deployÂ  integratedÂ  servicesÂ  acrossÂ  differentÂ 
      resource <br>
      domains. OrchestrationÂ  mechanisms willÂ  facilitate theÂ  live
      deployment <br>
      and lifecycle managementÂ  of these virtual elements,Â  at the
      application <br>
      level, theÂ  server level, and theÂ  network level within aÂ  single
      domain <br>
      and across multipleÂ  domains. Without such orchestration itÂ  will
      not be <br>
      possibleÂ  toÂ Â  enableÂ  dynamicÂ  establishmentÂ  ofÂ Â  generalizedÂ 
      virtual <br>
      functions chains, according to service requirements. <br>
      <br>
      TheseÂ  challengesÂ  ofÂ  orchestrationÂ Â  areÂ  many-fold,Â  withÂ 
      manyÂ  open <br>
      questions that need to be addressed in the areas of: <br>
      <br>
      -Â  networkÂ Â  "softwarization"Â  whichÂ  requiresÂ  unifiedÂ Â 
      managementÂ  of <br>
      Â Â  computing,Â  storage,Â Â  andÂ  networkÂ Â  resourcesÂ  forÂ Â  theÂ 
      effective <br>
      Â Â  deployment,Â  lifecycleÂ  management,Â  andÂ  run-timeÂ 
      configurationÂ  of <br>
      Â Â  generalized virtual functions; <br>
      <br>
      -Â  abstraction modelsÂ  and open standard interfaces,Â  needed for
      assuring <br>
      Â Â  vendor interoperability; <br>
      <br>
      -Â  adaptation andÂ  optimization mechanisms,Â  which mustÂ  be
      enforcedÂ  at <br>
      Â Â  global and/orÂ  local level forÂ  coping with userÂ  demand,
      application <br>
      Â Â  requirements, resource unavailability, etc. <br>
      <br>
      O4SDIÂ  aims atÂ  providingÂ  an internationalÂ  forumÂ  for
      researchersÂ  and <br>
      practitioners fromÂ  academia, industry,Â  network operators,Â  and
      service <br>
      providersÂ  to discussÂ  andÂ  address theÂ  challengesÂ  deriving
      fromÂ  such <br>
      emerging scenario whereÂ  systems, processes, and workflowsÂ  used
      in both <br>
      computingÂ  andÂ  communicationsÂ  domainsÂ  areÂ  converging.Â  TheÂ 
      workshop <br>
      welcomes contributions from both computing and network-oriented
      research <br>
      communities,Â Â Â  withÂ Â Â  theÂ Â Â Â  aimÂ Â Â  ofÂ Â Â  facilitatingÂ Â Â 
      discussion, <br>
      cross-fertilizationÂ Â  andÂ  exchangeÂ Â  ofÂ Â  ideasÂ Â  andÂ 
      practices,Â Â  and <br>
      successfully promote innovative solutions toward a real
      programmatic use <br>
      ofÂ  software-definedÂ  infrastructuresÂ  as aÂ  whole.Â 
      ContributionsÂ  that <br>
      discuss lessons learnt and best practices, describe practical
      deployment <br>
      and implementation experiences, and demonstrate innovative
      use-cases are <br>
      especially encouraged for presentation and publication. <br>
      <br>
      We are particularly interested in papers that cover, but are not
      limited <br>
      to, the following topics: <br>
      <br>
      -Â  single domain and cross domain orchestration issues <br>
      -Â  integrated network and computing resource control and
      management <br>
      -Â  control and abstraction of heterogeneous networks <br>
      -Â  orchestration in SDN/NFV <br>
      -Â  run-time orchestration <br>
      -Â  orchestration for next-generation IP and optical networks <br>
      -Â  orchestration in 5G networks <br>
      -Â  QoS/QoE in software-defined infrastructures <br>
      -Â  orchestration for high-availability and resilience in <br>
      Â Â  software-defined infrastructures <br>
      -Â  intent-based orchestration <br>
      -Â  orchestration for fog computing and networking <br>
      -Â  dynamic service composition and delivery <br>
      -Â  network programmability for service chaining <br>
      -Â  orchestration of network slices and data center slices <br>
      -Â  software engineering and operating systems techniques applied <br>
      Â Â  to orchestration <br>
      -Â  description, specification, and abstraction languages for <br>
      Â Â  orchestration <br>
      -Â  optimal orchestration algorithms <br>
      -Â  context-aware orchestration <br>
      -Â  functional architectures of orchestrating elements <br>
      -Â  testbed experiments on orchestrations <br>
      -Â  performance evaluation of orchestration elements <br>
      -Â  standardization issues in orchestration <br>
      -Â  best practices in orchestration <br>
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      unpublished and notÂ  submitted elsewhere. Full papersÂ  must be
      formatted <br>
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      pages <br>
      (10-point font),Â  including figures,Â  without incurringÂ 
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      <br>
      <br>
      Workshop Co-Chairs <br>
      <br>
      - Stuart Clayman, University College London, UK - <a
        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
        href="mailto:s.clayman@ucl.ac.uk">s.clayman@ucl.ac.uk</a> <br>
      - Walter Cerroni, University of Bologna, Italy - <a
        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
        href="mailto:walter.cerroni@unibo.it">walter.cerroni@unibo.it</a>
      <br>
      - Barbara Martini, CNIT, Pisa, Italy - <a
        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
        href="mailto:barbara.martini@cnit.it">barbara.martini@cnit.it</a>
      <br>
      - Federica Paganelli, CNIT, Firenze, Italy - <a
        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
        href="mailto:federica.paganelli@cnit.it">federica.paganelli@cnit.it</a>
      <br>
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      Technical Program Committee <br>
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      - Giuseppe Bianchi, University of Rome Tor Vergata, Italy <br>
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      - Maurizio Casoni, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Italy <br>
      - Piero Castoldi, Scuola Superiore Santâ€™Anna, Italy <br>
      - Prosper Chemouil, Orange Labs, France <br>
      - Chiara Contoli, University of Bologna, Italy <br>
      - Luca Foschini, University of Bologna, Italy <br>
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      - Riccardo Guerzoni, DOCOMO Euro-labs, Germany <br>
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      - Joan Serrat, Universitat PolitÃ¨cnica de Catalunya, Spain <br>
      - Antonio Fernando Skarmeta Gomez, University of Murcia, Spain <br>
      - Mauro Tortonesi, University of Ferrara, Italy <br>
      - Daphne Tuncer, University College London, UK <br>
      - Ishan Vaishnavi, Huawei Technologies Dusseldorf GmBH, Germany <br>
      - Mohammed Faten Zhani, Ecole de Technologie Superieure,
      University of Quebec, Canada </p>
  </body>
</html>

--------------4179211C6B4B4D900F4E9ABC--


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:16:16 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com>, <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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"Spiral" means a path can traverse the same SF twice.
E.g., you might do "before" and "after" policies from the same SF device.



From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:37 PM
To: Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Why can't there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI=
? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing counters f=
or all flows in each service path. The latter is provide counters for all f=
lows served at each hop in the service path.

Can you explain the "spiral" scenario and how that pertains to usefulness o=
f having per service path stats? Thanks.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n=
.guichard@huawei.com>
Cc: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
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sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Spiral&#8221; m=
eans a path can traverse the same SF twice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">E.g., you might do &#8=
220;before&#8221; and &#8220;after&#8221; policies from the same SF device.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Kent Leu=
ng (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Why can&#8217;t there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats fo=
r per SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providin=
g counters for all flows in each service path.
 The latter is provide counters for all flows served at each hop in the ser=
vice path.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Can you explain the &#=
8220;spiral&#8221; scenario and how that pertains to usefulness of having p=
er service path stats? Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) &lt;robmgl@cisco.com&gt;; James N Guic=
hard &lt;james.n.guichard@huawei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictly, stats should=
 be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I can see how folk=
s might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roberta =
Maglione (robmgl) [</span><a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"=
>mailto:robmgl@cisco.com</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i=
etf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree on the operational aspect: having different =
SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as stat=
istics on the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displa=
yed just based on SPI.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [</s=
pan><a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:sfc-bounces@=
ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">____________________________________=
___________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">sfc@ietf.org</span><=
/a><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,=
&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc"><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;=
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</span></a><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A906571Awtlexchp2sandvi_--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:18:04 -0700
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Subject: [sfc] The scope of SFC OAM Framework draft
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--94eb2c1229c45d9635055485bef3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
the last sentence of the short section in the SFC OAM Framework draft is
what I've referred to when proposing to remove sections 5 and 6 from the
document:

1.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02#section-1.1>.
Document Scope

   The focus of this document is to provide an architectural framework
   for SFC OAM, particularly focused on the aspect of the Operations
   component within OAM.  Actual solutions and mechanisms are outside
   the scope of this document.


Regards,

Greg

--94eb2c1229c45d9635055485bef3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>the last sentence of the short section in th=
e SFC OAM Framework draft is what I&#39;ve referred to when proposing to re=
move sections 5 and 6 from the document:</div><div><pre class=3D"gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><span class=3D"gmail-h3" style=3D"line-height:0pt;display:inline;=
font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><h3 style=3D"line-height:0pt;display:inline=
;font-size:1em"><a class=3D"gmail-selflink" name=3D"section-1.1" href=3D"ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-framework-02#section-1.1" styl=
e=3D"color:black;text-decoration-line:none">1.1</a>.  Document Scope</h3></=
span>

   The focus of this document is to provide an architectural framework
   for SFC OAM, particularly focused on the aspect of the Operations
   component within OAM.  Actual solutions and mechanisms are outside
   the scope of this document.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br><=
/pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0=
px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans=
-serif">Regards,</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=
=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Greg</font></pre></div></div>

--94eb2c1229c45d9635055485bef3--


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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Thanks for clarifying the term. So the flow is going through the service pa=
th once, but re-enters the same SF in transit. In that case, the counter fo=
r the service path and counter for each hop would still be helpful.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 6:16 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robm=
gl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

"Spiral" means a path can traverse the same SF twice.
E.g., you might do "before" and "after" policies from the same SF device.



From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:37 PM
To: Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Why can't there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI=
? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing counters f=
or all flows in each service path. The latter is provide counters for all f=
lows served at each hop in the service path.

Can you explain the "spiral" scenario and how that pertains to usefulness o=
f having per service path stats? Thanks.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com<mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; =
James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawe=
i.com>>
Cc: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ie=
tf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Thanks for clarifying the term. So the flow is going through the serv=
ice path once, but re-enters the same SF in transit. In that case, the coun=
ter for the service path and counter for
 each hop would still be helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.co=
m] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 6:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;; Roberta Maglione (=
robmgl) &lt;robmgl@cisco.com&gt;; James N Guichard &lt;james.n.guichard@hua=
wei.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8220;Spiral&#8221; m=
eans a path can traverse the same SF twice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">E.g., you might do &#8=
220;before&#8221; and &#8220;after&#8221; policies from the same SF device.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Kent Leung (kleung) [<a href=3D"=
mailto:kleung@cisco.com">mailto:kleung@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Why can&#8217;t there =
be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI? They seem to s=
erve different purposes. The former is providing counters for all flows in =
each service path. The latter is provide counters
 for all flows served at each hop in the service path.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Can you explain the &#=
8220;spiral&#8221; scenario and how that pertains to usefulness of having p=
er service path stats? Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com=
">robmgl@cisco.com</a>&gt;; James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.=
guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleu=
ng@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictly, stats should=
 be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I can see how folk=
s might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [</spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:robmgl@cisco.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i=
etf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,san=
s-serif">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree on the operational aspect: having different =
SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as stat=
istics on the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displa=
yed just based on SPI.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [</span><a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">sfc@=
ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kent<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif">_______________________________________________<=
br>
sfc mailing list<br>
</span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><br>
</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc"><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_54c9fcda98e44cf6adfb8d6068c65ecbXCHRTP006ciscocom_--


From nobody Tue Jul 18 00:52:18 2017
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:51:59 +0100
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Subject: [sfc] NSH spec heads up
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Just to say I am working on three things...

1. With Carlos to look at ensuring we handle unknown values of Next Protocol
2. With Med to see whether to supply text for Next Protocol = None
3. To check that all of my review comments on -12 have been addressed

Trying to do this all ASAP.

Adrian


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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:12:43 +0100
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Subject: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future use of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph of 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.  
   
   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value 
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.  
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the 
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this 
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END


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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:41:46 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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What is the rationale to drop (vs skip) unrecognized next-protocol values?
And might the answer be different if O=3D1?

E.g., if an SF implementation does not recognize MPLS, =FDwouldn't it be be=
st to just forward (and count error)?

David Dolson
Sandvine
  Original Message
From: Adrian Farrel
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:12 AM
To: sfc@ietf.org
Reply To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol


Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future u=
se of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From: Kyle Larose <klarose@sandvine.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:56:01 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:14:48 2017
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: Kyle Larose <klarose@sandvine.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:14:42 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <D76BBBCF97F57144BB5FCF08007244A7A9018D6C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:19:11 -0400
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Adrian,

Two comments.

1. It=E2=80=99s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254=
 and 255
in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it
the same at both places (I don=E2=80=99t have a particular preference).

2. Does the text:

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =E2=80=9CNOT attempt to pr=
ocess=E2=80=9D
actually means.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations shoul=
d
> do
> with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future
> use of
> 0x0 (which we might want for "none").
>
> I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph
> of 2.2
> seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.
>
> (Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)
>
> Adrian
>
> ---
>
> Section 2.2
> OLD
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>
>    0x0: Reserved
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>    0xFF.
> NEW
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>    0xFF.
>
>    An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
>    SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
>    The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
>    SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
>    without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
>    payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
>    By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
>    NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
>    behavior SHOULD be configurable.
> END
>
> ---
>
> 11.2.5
>
> OLD
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
> NEW
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
> END
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Dave Dolson'" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Dave,
Yes, thanks, this is the discussion to have.

1. Suppose you are an SF and your job is to "do things" to IP packets. =
Suppose
you get an Ethernet frame, what do you do? Suppose you get a completely =
unknown
next protocol, what do you do?

I think the default needs to be "drop the packet" because you can't do =
your job,
but I also think you should be "configurable" such that your job =
definition
includes "forward untouched those packets you can't process."

But consider security SFs. They very probably should not forward packets =
that
they can't process.

2. Suppose you an SFC proxy. If you don't recognise the next protocol =
type, then
(presumably) your SF cannot process it and you should not pass it to the =
SF.

I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe the =
desire
to configure that the proxy simply passes the packet back to the SFF.

But consider proxies to security SFs. They very probably should not =
return
packets to the SFF making it look like the security function has been =
performed.

3. Suppose you are a classifier (or re-classifier). Part of you =
classification
process is looking into the payload, but if you don't know the payload =
type, you
can't process it.

I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe a
configuration that says "classify all unknown protocol types in the same =
way".

4. Suppose you are an SFF. In general you don't need to look at the next
protocol type and so the question does not arise (i.e., if you don't =
look at the
next protocol field, the value of the field cannot be unknown).=20

On the other hand, if you are an SFF that is load balancing based on the =
payload
packet then you probably use the next protocol field to decide how to =
load
balance (i.e., how to interpret the payload packet).

In this case, I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I =
can
rationalise a configuration that says "load balance all unknown protocol =
types
in the same way".

5. Next protocol =3D "none" or other potential magic (such as OAM) fits, =
I think,
into the same four options. That is, if you need to understand the =
special
meaning of the next protocol field in order to correctly process the =
packet, and
if you don't understand the next protocol value, then you cannot =
properly
process the packet.=20


Anyway, that was my thought process.

Adrian


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
> Sent: 18 July 2017 09:42
> To: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
> What is the rationale to drop (vs skip) unrecognized next-protocol =
values?
> And might the answer be different if O=3D1?
>=20
> E.g., if an SF implementation does not recognize MPLS, =FDwouldn't it =
be best to
just
> forward (and count error)?
>=20
> David Dolson
> Sandvine
>   Original Message
> From: Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:12 AM
> To: sfc@ietf.org
> Reply To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
> Subject: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations =
should
> do
> with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the =
future use
> of
> 0x0 (which we might want for "none").
>=20
> I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last =
paragraph of
2.2
> seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.
>=20
> (Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)
>=20
> Adrian
>=20
> ---
>=20
> Section 2.2
> OLD
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the =
inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>=20
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>=20
>    0x0: Reserved
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>=20
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE =
and
>    0xFF.
> NEW
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the =
inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>=20
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>=20
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>=20
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE =
and
>    0xFF.
>=20
>    An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
>    SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
>    The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within =
the
>    SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH =
packet
>    without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to =
the
>    payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol =
type.
>    By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of =
an
>    NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
>    behavior SHOULD be configurable.
> END
>=20
> ---
>=20
> 11.2.5
>=20
> OLD
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These =
are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via =
"Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>=20
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>=20
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
> NEW
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These =
are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via =
"Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>=20
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>=20
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
> END
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Fun, Andy!
=20
The two questions apply to text I haven't modified.
I pass the questions on to WG/authors.
=20
My opinions are:
1. Yes
2. Yes, we should be explicit.
=20
A
=20
From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]=20
Sent: 18 July 2017 10:19
To: Adrian Farrel
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
=20
Adrian,
=20
Two comments.
=20
1. It=E2=80=99s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but =
254 and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, =
and have it the same at both places (I don=E2=80=99t have a particular =
preference).
=20
2. Does the text:
=20
   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =E2=80=9CNOT attempt to =
process=E2=80=9D actually means.
=20
Thanks,
Andy
=20
=20
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> =
wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations =
should do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the =
future use of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last =
paragraph of 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol =
type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Fun, =
Andy!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>The two questions apply to =
text I haven't modified.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I pass the questions on to =
WG/authors.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>My opinions =
are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>1. Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>2. Yes, we should be =
explicit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>A<b =
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><o:p></o:p></b></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Andrew G. Malis =
[mailto:agmalis@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 18 July 2017 =
10:19<br><b>To:</b> Adrian Farrel<br><b>Cc:</b> =
sfc@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown =
Next Protocol<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Adrian,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Two comments.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1. It=E2=80=99s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in =
the main text, but 254 and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should =
pick one or the other, and have it the same at both places (I =
don=E2=80=99t have a particular preference).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>2. Does the text:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style=3D'font-size:9.5pt'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next =
Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0xFF.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>mean =
drop or forward? We should be explicit what =E2=80=9CNOT attempt to =
process=E2=80=9D actually means.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Andy<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Tue, =
Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi,<br><br>As we have been discussing we need to =
describe what implementations should do<br>with unknown &quot;Next =
Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block the future use =
of<br>0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br><br>I think we =
need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph of =
2.2<br>seem excessive and I would be happy to see them =
reduced.<br><br>(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the =
changed text.)<br><br>Adrian<br><br>---<br><br>Section =
2.2<br>OLD<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of =
the encapsulated data.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner =
payload, and the semantics on the inner<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain =
unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Please =
see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol =
values:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: =
IPv4<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: =
Experiment 1<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An =
implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next =
Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>NEW<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the =
semantics on the inner<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to =
NSH service function chaining.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA =
Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;This =
document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: =
Ethernet<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment =
2<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a =
specific experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to =
process Next Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0xFF.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not =
recognize the Next Protocol value<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to =
examine or process the payload of a packet.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning =
of this will depend on the role of a component within the<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward an =
NSH packet<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF =
applies a function to the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be =
expected to understand the Next Protocol type.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;By =
default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of =
an<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next =
Protocol, but this<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be =
configurable.<br>END<br><br>---<br><br>11.2.5<br><br>OLD<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next =
Protocol&quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next =
Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;in this =
document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned via =
&quot;Expert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per =
[RFC8126].<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Description&nbsp; | =
Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document =
|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | =
Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base Header =
Next Protocol Values<br>NEW<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up =
a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are =
defined<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values =
are assigned via &quot;Expert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per =
[RFC8126].<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Description&nbsp; | =
Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document =
|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | =
Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base Header =
Next Protocol =
Values<br>END<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>s=
fc mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p=
></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_05BD_01D2FFB0.E3A230B0--



From nobody Tue Jul 18 03:36:30 2017
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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If I may paraphrase, we should set the operator's expectation that unknown=
=3Ddrop by default, because this will be less surprising than functions not=
 being applied.

I'm OK with that.


-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol

Dave,
Yes, thanks, this is the discussion to have.

1. Suppose you are an SF and your job is to "do things" to IP packets. Supp=
ose you get an Ethernet frame, what do you do? Suppose you get a completely=
 unknown next protocol, what do you do?

I think the default needs to be "drop the packet" because you can't do your=
 job, but I also think you should be "configurable" such that your job defi=
nition includes "forward untouched those packets you can't process."

But consider security SFs. They very probably should not forward packets th=
at they can't process.

2. Suppose you an SFC proxy. If you don't recognise the next protocol type,=
 then
(presumably) your SF cannot process it and you should not pass it to the SF=
.

I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe the des=
ire to configure that the proxy simply passes the packet back to the SFF.

But consider proxies to security SFs. They very probably should not return =
packets to the SFF making it look like the security function has been perfo=
rmed.

3. Suppose you are a classifier (or re-classifier). Part of you classificat=
ion process is looking into the payload, but if you don't know the payload =
type, you can't process it.

I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe a confi=
guration that says "classify all unknown protocol types in the same way".

4. Suppose you are an SFF. In general you don't need to look at the next pr=
otocol type and so the question does not arise (i.e., if you don't look at =
the next protocol field, the value of the field cannot be unknown).=20

On the other hand, if you are an SFF that is load balancing based on the pa=
yload packet then you probably use the next protocol field to decide how to=
 load balance (i.e., how to interpret the payload packet).

In this case, I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can r=
ationalise a configuration that says "load balance all unknown protocol typ=
es in the same way".

5. Next protocol =3D "none" or other potential magic (such as OAM) fits, I =
think, into the same four options. That is, if you need to understand the s=
pecial meaning of the next protocol field in order to correctly process the=
 packet, and if you don't understand the next protocol value, then you cann=
ot properly process the packet.=20


Anyway, that was my thought process.

Adrian


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
> Sent: 18 July 2017 09:42
> To: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
> What is the rationale to drop (vs skip) unrecognized next-protocol values=
?
> And might the answer be different if O=3D1?
>=20
> E.g., if an SF implementation does not recognize MPLS, =FDwouldn't it be=
=20
> best to
just
> forward (and count error)?
>=20
> David Dolson
> Sandvine
>   Original Message
> From: Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:12 AM
> To: sfc@ietf.org
> Reply To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
> Subject: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations=20
> should do with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not=20
> block the future use of
> 0x0 (which we might want for "none").
>=20
> I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last=20
> paragraph of
2.2
> seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.
>=20
> (Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)
>=20
> Adrian
>=20
> ---
>=20
> Section 2.2
> OLD
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>=20
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>=20
>    0x0: Reserved
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>=20
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>    0xFF.
> NEW
>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>=20
>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>=20
>    0x1: IPv4
>    0x2: IPv6
>    0x3: Ethernet
>    0x4: NSH
>    0x5: MPLS
>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>=20
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>    0xFF.
>=20
>    An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
>    SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
>    The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
>    SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
>    without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
>    payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
>    By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
>    NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
>    behavior SHOULD be configurable.
> END
>=20
> ---
>=20
> 11.2.5
>=20
> OLD
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>=20
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>=20
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values NEW
>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>=20
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>              |               |              |               |
>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>=20
>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values END
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:19:27 +0200
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Hi SFC WG,

The link below is an Internet Draft of the I2NSF WG, which is related to
SFC.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03

This draft describes the integration of the I2NSF framework and SFC to
support
packet forwarding between Network Security Functions (NSFs) as service
functions.
The I2NSF framework defines an advanced security action that allows an NSF
to
call another type of NSF for further security inspection and action.
For example, a firewall filter calls a DPI for more in-depth analysis of
a suspicious packet. For such advanced security action to be realized,
the suspicious packet should be delivered from the firewall filter to the
DPI.
To enable this forwarding, we integrate SFC components into the I2NSF
framework.

Welcome your comments in the I2NSF on-site meeting or by email.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Paul and Sangwon
-- 
===========================
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Software
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: jaehoon.paul@gmail.com, pauljeong@skku.edu
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi SFC WG,</div><div><br></div><div>The link below is=
 an Internet Draft of the I2NSF WG, which is related to SFC.</div><div><a h=
ref=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-=
03">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hyun-i2nsf-nsf-triggered-steering-03<=
/a>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>This draft describes the integration of =
the I2NSF framework and SFC to support=C2=A0</div><div>packet forwarding be=
tween Network Security Functions (NSFs) as service functions.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv>The I2NSF framework defines an advanced security action that allows an N=
SF to=C2=A0</div><div>call another type of NSF for further security inspect=
ion and action.=C2=A0</div><div>For example, a firewall filter calls a DPI =
for more in-depth analysis of=C2=A0</div><div>a suspicious packet. For such=
 advanced security action to be realized,=C2=A0</div><div>the suspicious pa=
cket should be delivered from the firewall filter to the DPI.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv>To enable this forwarding, we integrate SFC components into the I2NSF fr=
amework.</div><div><br></div><div>Welcome your comments in the I2NSF on-sit=
e meeting or by email.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Best regards,</div><div>Paul and Sangwon</div><div>--=C2=A0<br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>Assistant Pr=
ofessor<br>Department of Software<br>Sungkyunkwan University<br>Office: +82=
-31-299-4957<br>Email: <a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.e=
du" style=3D"font-size:12.8px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a><br>=
Personal Homepage: <a href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.p=
hp" target=3D"_blank">http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</a><b=
r></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>

--001a11449a081b33e5055495b2f1--


From nobody Tue Jul 18 05:10:17 2017
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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Dave Dolson'" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <052f01d2ff9d$a26f30b0$e74d9210$@olddog.co.uk> <20170718084145.5140562.57688.23952@sandvine.com> <05b501d2ffa8$43939620$cabac260$@olddog.co.uk> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9066AE6@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:10:06 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/FfOIdu4WZHOrn56aUl2XSUNVmrU>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Dave,
Why shouldn't I use 1000 words where 22 would do?


;-)

Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
> Sent: 18 July 2017 11:36
> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
> If I may paraphrase, we should set the operator's expectation that
> unknown=3Ddrop by default, because this will be less surprising than =
functions
not
> being applied.
>=20
> I'm OK with that.
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:29 AM
> To: Dave Dolson; sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
>=20
> Dave,
> Yes, thanks, this is the discussion to have.
>=20
> 1. Suppose you are an SF and your job is to "do things" to IP packets. =
Suppose
> you get an Ethernet frame, what do you do? Suppose you get a =
completely
> unknown next protocol, what do you do?
>=20
> I think the default needs to be "drop the packet" because you can't do =
your
job,
> but I also think you should be "configurable" such that your job =
definition
> includes "forward untouched those packets you can't process."
>=20
> But consider security SFs. They very probably should not forward =
packets that
> they can't process.
>=20
> 2. Suppose you an SFC proxy. If you don't recognise the next protocol =
type,
then
> (presumably) your SF cannot process it and you should not pass it to =
the SF.
>=20
> I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe =
the desire
to
> configure that the proxy simply passes the packet back to the SFF.
>=20
> But consider proxies to security SFs. They very probably should not =
return
> packets to the SFF making it look like the security function has been
performed.
>=20
> 3. Suppose you are a classifier (or re-classifier). Part of you =
classification
process is
> looking into the payload, but if you don't know the payload type, you =
can't
> process it.
>=20
> I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I can believe a
configuration
> that says "classify all unknown protocol types in the same way".
>=20
> 4. Suppose you are an SFF. In general you don't need to look at the =
next
protocol
> type and so the question does not arise (i.e., if you don't look at =
the next
> protocol field, the value of the field cannot be unknown).
>=20
> On the other hand, if you are an SFF that is load balancing based on =
the
payload
> packet then you probably use the next protocol field to decide how to =
load
> balance (i.e., how to interpret the payload packet).
>=20
> In this case, I think the default should be to drop the packet, but I =
can
rationalise
> a configuration that says "load balance all unknown protocol types in =
the same
> way".
>=20
> 5. Next protocol =3D "none" or other potential magic (such as OAM) =
fits, I
think, into
> the same four options. That is, if you need to understand the special =
meaning
of
> the next protocol field in order to correctly process the packet, and =
if you
don't
> understand the next protocol value, then you cannot properly process =
the
> packet.
>=20
>=20
> Anyway, that was my thought process.
>=20
> Adrian
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
> > Sent: 18 July 2017 09:42
> > To: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
> >
> > What is the rationale to drop (vs skip) unrecognized next-protocol =
values?
> > And might the answer be different if O=3D1?
> >
> > E.g., if an SF implementation does not recognize MPLS, =FDwouldn't =
it be
> > best to
> just
> > forward (and count error)?
> >
> > David Dolson
> > Sandvine
> >   Original Message
> > From: Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:12 AM
> > To: sfc@ietf.org
> > Reply To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
> > Subject: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations
> > should do with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not
> > block the future use of
> > 0x0 (which we might want for "none").
> >
> > I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last
> > paragraph of
> 2.2
> > seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.
> >
> > (Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Section 2.2
> > OLD
> >    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.
> >    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the =
inner
> >    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
> >    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
> >
> >    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
> >
> >    0x0: Reserved
> >    0x1: IPv4
> >    0x2: IPv6
> >    0x3: Ethernet
> >    0x4: NSH
> >    0x5: MPLS
> >    0xFE: Experiment 1
> >    0xFF: Experiment 2
> >
> >    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment
> >    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE =
and
> >    0xFF.
> > NEW
> >    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.
> >    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the =
inner
> >    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
> >    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
> >
> >    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
> >
> >    0x1: IPv4
> >    0x2: IPv6
> >    0x3: Ethernet
> >    0x4: NSH
> >    0x5: MPLS
> >    0xFE: Experiment 1
> >    0xFF: Experiment 2
> >
> >    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment
> >    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE =
and
> >    0xFF.
> >
> >    An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
> >    SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
> >    The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within =
the
> >    SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH =
packet
> >    without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to =
the
> >    payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol =
type.
> >    By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload =
of an
> >    NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
> >    behavior SHOULD be configurable.
> > END
> >
> > ---
> >
> > 11.2.5
> >
> > OLD
> >    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These =
are
> >    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
> >    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via =
"Expert
> >    Review" as per [RFC8126].
> >
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >
> >                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values NEW
> >    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These =
are
> >    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
> >    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via =
"Expert
> >    Review" as per [RFC8126].
> >
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
> >              |               |              |               |
> >              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
> >              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
> >
> >                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values END
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc


From nobody Tue Jul 18 06:12:17 2017
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From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:12:11 +0000
Message-ID: <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>
References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Since there are not always two directions, I would prefer not to define 
that bit as always meaning direction.  I do not mind if the bit is used 
by configuration in a directional fashion.  (It is odd, but clearly works.)

Yours,
Joel

On 7/18/17 9:12 AM, Ron Parker wrote:
> I support 5.4.1 (single SPI with direction indicated in SI).   That 
> being said, the approach effectively reduces SI by 1 bit and reallocates 
> that bit to direction.   Is it feasible to instead be explicit by 
> creating an direction bit?   Also, how do we refer to directions?   
> East/West?   North/South?  Left/Right?   Upstream/Downstream?
> 
>     Ron
> 
> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung (kleung)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:54 AM
> *To:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson 
> <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; 
> James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi Reinaldo. I agree we need to get agreement in WG and update the draft 
> soon as folks are unsure what to implement.
> 
> It seems most folks have chimed in. Hereâ€™s the latest count. Iâ€™m putting 
> names down to make sure the count is accurate.
> 
> Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):
> 
> -(2) Dave, Joel
> 
> Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):
> 
> -(6) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul
> 
> Do we have some rough consensus yet? Or wait for more opinions to decide?
> 
> Kent
> 
> *From:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:59 PM
> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; 
> Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>; 
> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; 
> James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com 
> <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Hi Kent/others,
> 
> this decision is quite important for real deployments, as opposed to 
> demos and related.  I hope as the first step we all agree that we cannot 
> have more than one way of interpreting directionality of paths and 
> associated reverse paths. That would be an interoperability nightmare 
> and reduce the usefulness of NSH considerably.
> 
> So, whatever way it goes the WG needs to embrace it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> *From: *sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>> on 
> behalf of "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>
> *Date: *Monday, July 17, 2017 at 10:36 AM
> *To: *Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>, 
> "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com 
> <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>, James N Guichard 
> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
> *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>" <sfc@ietf.org 
> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Why canâ€™t there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per 
> SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing 
> counters for all flows in each service path. The latter is provide 
> counters for all flows served at each hop in the service path.
> 
> Can you explain the â€œspiralâ€ scenario and how that pertains to 
> usefulness of having per service path stats? Thanks.
> 
> Kent
> 
> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
> *To:* Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com 
> <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; James N Guichard 
> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
> *Cc:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; 
> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the 
> so-called spiral.
> 
> But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.
> 
> *From:*Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
> *To:* James N Guichard
> *Cc:* Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for 
> draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each 
> direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on 
> the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed 
> just based on SPI.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Roberta
> 
> Inviato da iPad
> 
> 
> Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard 
> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha 
> scritto:
> 
>     Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my
>     point was more from an operational perspective; if I use the same
>     path ID in both directions then I cannot immediately tell in which
>     direction the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and
>     look at the SI leading to a correlation of SPI + SI to be able to
>     figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.
> 
>     Jim
> 
>     *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>     *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
>     *To:* James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>     <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung)
>     <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org
>     <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* RE: clarification on Service Path ID for
>     draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
>     There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding
>     depends on **both** SPI and SI.
> 
>     So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the
>     range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the
>     same SPI.
> 
>     The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
> 
>     As I see it, Kentâ€™s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the
>     same SPI used for two directions?
> 
>     Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,
>       consuming only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
> 
>     It may make debugging easier as well.
> 
>     Also, for what itâ€™s worth, we demonstrated this method of section
>     5.4.1 at a previous IETF hackathon.
> 
>     -Dave
> 
>     *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
>     *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
>     *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>     draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
>     Hi Kent,
> 
>     [personal opinion â€¦] I have always assumed that the service path ID
>     would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid
>     collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC
>     a-b-c and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c
>     (which imho will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a
>     conflict if the same service path ID is used in both directions.
> 
>     Jim
> 
>     *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung
>     (kleung)
>     *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
>     *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>     draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
>     Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4
>     proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions,
>     most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section
>     5.4. However, there are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service
>     Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow direction (sect.
>     5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on Serve Path
>     ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed
>     opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Service
>     Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has
>     been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?
> 
>     If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer
>     is easy (=> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get
>     rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution.
>     This problem is critical to address for Service Function that
>     generate packet in reverse direction, especially security service
>     functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
> 
>     Thanks.
> 
>     Kent
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     sfc mailing list
>     sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>     <https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_jYzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> 


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From: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Dave Dolson" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!

Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:

1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that =
other document can define it.
1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's=
 draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and spec=
ification.
2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", clarifying t=
hat behavior.
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow it=
, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental pr=
otocols.

That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agm=
alis@gmail.com>> wrote:

Adrian,

Two comments.

1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 and 2=
55 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it=
 the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).

2. Does the text:

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to process=
=94 actually means.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:=
adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future u=
se of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br>
<br>
Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">1. Specify p=
rotocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that other docume=
nt can define it.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">1.5. Will no=
t merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's draft, just=
 as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and specification.&n=
bsp;<br>
2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped&quot;, cl=
arifying that behavior.&nbsp;<br>
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disall=
ow it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified.&quot;<=
/span></div>
<div>4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex</div>
<div>5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experiment=
al protocols.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Adrian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Two comments.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 =
and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and ha=
ve it the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Does the text:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;An impleme=
ntation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOUL=
D NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div>mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to pro=
cess=94 actually means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <=
span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>
with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block th=
e future use of<br>
0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br>
<br>
I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2<br>
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.<br>
<br>
(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 2.2<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol va=
lue<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a pack=
et.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component wit=
hin the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward a=
n NSH packet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function=
 to the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protoc=
ol type.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payloa=
d of an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but t=
his<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be configurable.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
11.2.5<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
END<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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From nobody Tue Jul 18 17:13:59 2017
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-15.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Paul Quinn
                          Uri Elzur
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-15.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2017-07-18

Abstract:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-15
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-15

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-15


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
CC: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Can 2 be "SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =FDforward"=
? Or is that obvious?


David Dolson
Sandvine
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis
Cc: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol


Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!

Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:

1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that =
other document can define it.
1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's=
 draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and spec=
ification.
2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", clarifying t=
hat behavior.
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow it=
, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental pr=
otocols.

That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agm=
alis@gmail.com>> wrote:

Adrian,

Two comments.

1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 and 2=
55 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it=
 the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).

2. Does the text:

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to process=
=94 actually means.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:=
adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future u=
se of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--_000_2017071902475551036872740524230sandvinecom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1=
256">
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Can 2 be &quot;SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =FDfor=
ward&quot;? Or is that obvious?</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"display:initial">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif=
,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255)">
David&nbsp;Dolson<br>
Sandvine</div>
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:white; border-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size:initial; text-align:initial; backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,22=
3); border-top-width:1pt; padding:3pt 0in 0in; font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha=
 Sans','Slate Pro'; font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Andrew G. Malis</div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol</=
div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(186,188,20=
9); border-top-width:1pt; font-size:initial; text-align:initial; background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br>
<br>
Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"">1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of rese=
rved. This is so that other document can define it.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"">1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be=
 advanced via Adrian's draft, just as any other protocol support allocation=
, assignment, and specification.&nbsp;<br>
2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped&quot;, cl=
arifying that behavior.&nbsp;<br>
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disall=
ow it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified.&quot;<=
/span></div>
<div>4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex</div>
<div>5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experiment=
al protocols.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Adrian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Two comments.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 =
and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and ha=
ve it the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Does the text:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;An impleme=
ntation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOUL=
D NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div>mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to pro=
cess=94 actually means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <=
span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>
with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block th=
e future use of<br>
0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br>
<br>
I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2<br>
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.<br>
<br>
(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 2.2<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol va=
lue<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a pack=
et.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component wit=
hin the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward a=
n NSH packet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function=
 to the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protoc=
ol type.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payloa=
d of an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but t=
his<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be configurable.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
11.2.5<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
END<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
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<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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<span>sfc mailing list</span><br>
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
CC: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Thanks Dave. I think it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we recommend a behavio=
r but there may be valid reasons to do something different, with appropriat=
e reflection about potential consequences.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com<mailto:ddols=
on@sandvine.com>> wrote:

Can 2 be "SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =FDforward"=
? Or is that obvious?


David Dolson
Sandvine
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis
Cc: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol


Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!

Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:

1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that =
other document can define it.
1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's=
 draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and spec=
ification.
2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", clarifying t=
hat behavior.
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow it=
, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental pr=
otocols.

That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agm=
alis@gmail.com>> wrote:

Adrian,

Two comments.

1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 and 2=
55 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it=
 the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).

2. Does the text:

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to process=
=94 actually means.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:=
adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future u=
se of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
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<html>
<head>
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256">
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>Thanks Dave. I think it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we recommend a be=
havior but there may be valid reasons to do something different, with appro=
priate<span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">&nbsp;</spa=
n>reflection about potential consequences.&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sand=
vine.com">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Can 2 be &quot;SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =FDfor=
ward&quot;? Or is that obvious?</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"width:100%; font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro=
',sans-serif,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br style=3D"display:initial">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size:initial; font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif=
,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial; background-color:rgb=
(255,255,255)">
David&nbsp;Dolson<br>
Sandvine</div>
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"background-color:white; border-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan=3D"2" style=3D"font-size:initial; text-align:initial; backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(181,196,22=
3); border-top-width:1pt; padding:3pt 0in 0in; font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha=
 Sans','Slate Pro'; font-size:10pt">
<div><b>From: </b>Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Andrew G. Malis</div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>Adrian Farrel; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org=
</a></div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol</=
div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(186,188,20=
9); border-top-width:1pt; font-size:initial; text-align:initial; background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br>
<br>
Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"">1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of rese=
rved. This is so that other document can define it.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"">1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be=
 advanced via Adrian's draft, just as any other protocol support allocation=
, assignment, and specification.&nbsp;<br>
2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped&quot;, cl=
arifying that behavior.&nbsp;<br>
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disall=
ow it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified.&quot;<=
/span></div>
<div>4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex</div>
<div>5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experiment=
al protocols.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Adrian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Two comments.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 =
and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and ha=
ve it the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).</di=
v>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Does the text:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;An impleme=
ntation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOUL=
D NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div>mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to pro=
cess=94 actually means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <=
span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>
with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block th=
e future use of<br>
0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br>
<br>
I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2<br>
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.<br>
<br>
(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 2.2<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol va=
lue<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a pack=
et.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component wit=
hin the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward a=
n NSH packet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function=
 to the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protoc=
ol type.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payloa=
d of an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but t=
his<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be configurable.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
11.2.5<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
-----------<wbr>-&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
END<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
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rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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From nobody Wed Jul 19 01:10:05 2017
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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)'" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "'Dave Dolson'" <ddolson@sandvine.com>
Cc: "'Andrew G. Malis'" <agmalis@gmail.com>, <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <052f01d2ff9d$a26f30b0$e74d9210$@olddog.co.uk>, <CAA=duU20Ogw2Fs=ngc5ztx0d2kTV-=RDf1SxfYO0Ct9Y=VpCxA@mail.gmail.com>, <9CEFFC29-C6CD-4F17-97A6-3FB4CD6A236E@cisco.com>, <20170719024755.5103687.27405.24230@sandvine.com> <A69D865E-B708-44CF-B585-0C0FA8F47E0C@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <A69D865E-B708-44CF-B585-0C0FA8F47E0C@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:09:51 +0100
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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In general, it is worth explaining the converse of the SHOULD (i.e., the =
MAY)
even if *we* think it is obvious.
=20
This stops the ADs coming back and placing a Discuss because the =
document "is
not complete"
=20
:-)
=20
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]=20
Sent: 19 July 2017 08:40
To: Dave Dolson
Cc: Andrew G. Malis; Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
=20
Thanks Dave. I think it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we recommend a =
behavior but
there may be valid reasons to do something different, with appropriate
reflection about potential consequences.=20

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com> wrote:
Can 2 be "SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =
=FDforward"? Or is
that obvious?
=20
=20
David Dolson
Sandvine

From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis
Cc: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
=20
Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!

Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH =
doc,
planned updates:
=20
1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so =
that other
document can define it.=20
1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via =
Adrian's draft,
just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and =
specification.=20
2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", =
clarifying that
behavior.=20
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow =
it, but
such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental
protocols.=20

That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have =
entered
the diminishing returns territory.=20
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
Adrian,=20
=20
Two comments.
=20
1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 =
and 255 in
the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it =
the same
at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).
=20
2. Does the text:
=20
   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to =
process=94
actually means.
=20
Thanks,
Andy
=20
=20
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> =
wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations =
should do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the =
future use of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last =
paragraph of 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol =
type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"73" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Colorful Grid Accent 5"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"60" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
UnhideWhenUsed=3D"false" Name=3D"Light Shading Accent 6"/>
<w:LsdException Locked=3D"false" Priority=3D"61" SemiHidden=3D"false" =
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>In general, it is worth =
explaining the converse of the SHOULD (i.e., the MAY) even if *we* think =
it is obvious.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>This stops the ADs coming back =
and placing a Discuss because the document &quot;is not =
complete&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Carlos Pignataro =
(cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 19 July 2017 =
08:40<br><b>To:</b> Dave Dolson<br><b>Cc:</b> Andrew G. Malis; Adrian =
Farrel; sfc@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - =
Unknown Next Protocol<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Thanks Dave. I think =
it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we recommend a behavior but there may be =
valid reasons to do something different, with =
appropriate&nbsp;reflection about potential =
consequences.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3DAppleMailSignature><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br>Sent from my =
iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br>On Jul 19, 2017, =
at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Time=
s New Roman";color:#1F497D'>Can 2 be &quot;SHOULD be dropped by default =
but MAY be configured to =FDforward&quot;? Or is that =
obvious?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Time=
s New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Time=
s New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Time=
s New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>David&nbsp;Dolson<br>Sandvine<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 =
width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;background:white;mso-yfti-tbl=
look:1184;border-spacing:0px'><tr =
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial'><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Carlos Pignataro =
(cpignata)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Sent: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>To: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Andrew G. =
Malis<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Cc: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Adrian Farrel; <a =
href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Subject: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman"'>Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown =
Next Protocol<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></td></tr></table><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br><br>Closing the loop on all =
these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc, planned =
updates:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This =
is so that other document can define =
it.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>1.5. Will not merge =
in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's draft, just as =
any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and =
specification.&nbsp;<br>2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be =
silently dropped&quot;, clarifying that behavior.&nbsp;<br>3. Allow =
different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disallow it, =
but such functionality would need to be explicitly =
specified.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>4. Will update the IANA numbers to =
hex<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>5. Will change The =
should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental =
protocols.&nbsp;<br><br>That's the scope of plan changes. All good =
useful things, though we have entered the diminishing returns =
territory.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Sent from my =
iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'><br>On Jul 18, 2017, =
at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agmalis@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Adrian, <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Two comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, =
but 254 and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the =
other, and have it the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular =
preference).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>2. Does the text:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.5pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a =
specific experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to =
process Next Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>mean drop or =
forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to process=94 =
actually means.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 =
at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" =
target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Hi,<br><br>As we =
have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not =
block the future use of<br>0x0 (which we might want for =
&quot;none&quot;).<br><br>I think we need the following two changes. My =
words in the last paragraph of 2.2<br>seem excessive and I would be =
happy to see them reduced.<br><br>(Note that a couple of typos are also =
fixed in the changed text.)<br><br>Adrian<br><br>---<br><br>Section =
2.2<br>OLD<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of =
the encapsulated data.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner =
payload, and the semantics on the inner<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain =
unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Please =
see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol =
values:<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: =
IPv4<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: =
Experiment 1<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An =
implementation not explicitly configured for a specific =
experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next =
Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>NEW<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated =
data.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the =
semantics on the inner<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to =
NSH service function chaining.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA =
Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;This =
document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: =
Ethernet<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment =
2<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a =
specific experiment<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to =
process Next Protocol values 0xFE and<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;0xFF.<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not =
recognize the Next Protocol value<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to =
examine or process the payload of a packet.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning =
of this will depend on the role of a component within the<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward an =
NSH packet<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF =
applies a function to the<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be =
expected to understand the Next Protocol type.<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;By =
default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of =
an<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next =
Protocol, but this<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be =
configurable.<br>END<br><br>---<br><br>11.2.5<br><br>OLD<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next =
Protocol&quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next =
Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;in this =
document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned via =
&quot;Expert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per =
[RFC8126].<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Description&nbsp; | =
Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document =
|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | =
Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base Header =
Next Protocol Values<br>NEW<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up =
a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are =
defined<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values =
are assigned via &quot;Expert<br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per =
[RFC8126].<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Description&nbsp; | =
Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document =
|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | =
Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| =
255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This =
document |<br>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;+---------------+--------------+---------------+<br><br>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base Header =
Next Protocol =
Values<br>END<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>s=
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------=_NextPart_000_0872_01D3006E.C83A41A0--


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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Dave Dolson" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:29:40 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F7479@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:34:04 -0400
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Carlos,

-15 takes care of my comments, thanks!

Cheers,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
cpignata@cisco.com> wrote:

> Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!
>
> Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH
> doc, planned updates:
>
> 1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so tha=
t
> other document can define it.
> 1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian=
's
> draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and
> specification.
> 2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", clarifying
> that behavior.
> 3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow
> it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
> 4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
> 5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental
> protocols.
>
> That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have
> entered the diminishing returns territory.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Adrian,
>
> Two comments.
>
> 1. It=E2=80=99s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 2=
54 and
> 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have
> it the same at both places (I don=E2=80=99t have a particular preference)=
.
>
> 2. Does the text:
>
>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>    0xFF.
>
> mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =E2=80=9CNOT attempt to =
process=E2=80=9D
> actually means.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations
>> should do
>> with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the futur=
e
>> use of
>> 0x0 (which we might want for "none").
>>
>> I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragrap=
h
>> of 2.2
>> seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.
>>
>> (Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)
>>
>> Adrian
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Section 2.2
>> OLD
>>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>>
>>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>>
>>    0x0: Reserved
>>    0x1: IPv4
>>    0x2: IPv6
>>    0x3: Ethernet
>>    0x4: NSH
>>    0x5: MPLS
>>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>>
>>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>>    0xFF.
>> NEW
>>    Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
>>    NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
>>    protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
>>    Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.
>>
>>    This document defines the following Next Protocol values:
>>
>>    0x1: IPv4
>>    0x2: IPv6
>>    0x3: Ethernet
>>    0x4: NSH
>>    0x5: MPLS
>>    0xFE: Experiment 1
>>    0xFF: Experiment 2
>>
>>    An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
>>    [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
>>    0xFF.
>>
>>    An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
>>    SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
>>    The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
>>    SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
>>    without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
>>    payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type=
.
>>    By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
>>    NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
>>    behavior SHOULD be configurable.
>> END
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 11.2.5
>>
>> OLD
>>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>>
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>
>>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
>> NEW
>>    IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
>>    8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
>>    in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
>>    Review" as per [RFC8126].
>>
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>              | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>              | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 4             | NSH          | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
>>              |               |              |               |
>>              | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
>>              +---------------+--------------+---------------+
>>
>>                Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
>> END
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Carlos,<div><br></div><div>-15 takes care of my comments, =
thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Andy</div><div><br></div=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Ju=
l 18, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">cpignata@cisco.com</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br>
<br>
Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">1. Specify protoc=
ol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that other document ca=
n define it.=C2=A0</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">1.5. Will not mer=
ge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian&#39;s draft, just =
as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and specification.=C2=
=A0<br>
2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped&quot;, cl=
arifying that behavior.=C2=A0<br>
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disall=
ow it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified.&quot;<=
/span></div>
<div>4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex</div>
<div>5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experiment=
al protocols.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
That&#39;s the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we hav=
e entered the diminishing returns territory.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Adrian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Two comments.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. It=E2=80=99s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, bu=
t 254 and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, =
and have it the same at both places (I don=E2=80=99t have a particular pref=
erence).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Does the text:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0An impleme=
ntation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment</span><br style=
=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC3692] SHOUL=
D NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and</span><br style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.800000190734863px">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFF.</span><br=
 style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
<br style=3D"font-size:12.800000190734863px">
</div>
<div>mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =E2=80=9CNOT attempt =
to process=E2=80=9D actually means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Andy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <=
span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.=
co.uk</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi,<br>
<br>
As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>
with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block th=
e future use of<br>
0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br>
<br>
I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2<br>
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.<br>
<br>
(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 2.2<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x0: Reserved<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x1: IPv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x2: IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x3: Ethernet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x4: NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x5: MPLS<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFE: Experiment 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFF.<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x1: IPv4<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x2: IPv6<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x3: Ethernet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x4: NSH<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00x5: MPLS<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFE: Experiment 1<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A00xFF.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol va=
lue<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a pack=
et.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component wit=
hin the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SFC system.=C2=A0 For example, an SFF may be able to forward a=
n NSH packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function=
 to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protoc=
ol type.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payloa=
d of an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but t=
his<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0behavior SHOULD be configurable.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
11.2.5<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.=C2=A0 These are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08-bit values.=C2=A0 Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in this document (see Table 7).=C2=A0 New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on=C2=A0 | Reference=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Unassigned=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 1=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| IPv4=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 2=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| IPv6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 3=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Ethernet=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 4=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| NSH=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| MPLS=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 6..253=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 | Unassigned=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 254=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 255=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
NEW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.=C2=A0 These are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08-bit values.=C2=A0 Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in this document (see Table 7).=C2=A0 New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on=C2=A0 | Reference=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Unassigned=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 1=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| IPv4=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 2=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| IPv6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 3=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Ethernet=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 4=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| NSH=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| MPLS=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| This docu=
ment |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 6..253=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 | Unassigned=C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 254=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| 255=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---------------+----------=
--<wbr>--+---------------+<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
END<br>
<br>
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<div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
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To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Just for clarity, my preference between the algorithmic encoding methods 
is quite small.
Yours,
Joel

On 7/19/17 4:29 AM, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote:
> Hi Ron. The control plane (sect. 5.1) and encoded (sect. 5.3) methods are covered in the draft along with the pros and cons of each of the options. A method to generate asymmetric paths for asymmetric SFC is described in sect. 6. This technique is based on symmetric SI sequence with NOP. Both algorithmic (sects. 5.4.1 & 5.4.2) methods can leverage this SI scheme to support asymmetric SFC. So maybe we need to reword the draft better to explain that mirrored order for both directions is not assumed.
> 
> Just updating the running count:
> 
> Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):
> 
> -	(4) Dave, Joel, Ron, Kyle
> 
> Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):
> 
> -	(6) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul
> 
>   Kent
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:12 PM
> To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
> Cc: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Good point on the optionality of this bidirectional concept.
> 
> For the bidirectional case, we would ultimately like to know the correlation of the 2 paths.    I'm thinking that this is more, even, than correlating the "forward" SPI and the "reverse" SPI.   It also becomes useful to correlate the position of a particular service function.   A strict presumption of mirrored order for the 2 directions does not always hold.   Lets say in the forward direction we want SF types A, B, C, D but in the reverse direction we want A, D, C, B.   It would be useful to know that SF D appears at the 4th position of the forward flow and the 2nd position of the correlated reverse flow.   This starts to become too heavy to insert into the encapsulation itself.   Instead, this full knowledge can be achieved through control plane distribution and stateful elements (e.g., SFF, SF).
> 
> So, the encapsulation can carry all of the correlation information, none of the correlation information, or some of the correlation information.    I'm not so sure "some" is that useful.
> 
>     Ron
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:58 AM
> To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
> Cc: sfc@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
> 
> Since there are not always two directions, I would prefer not to define that bit as always meaning direction.  I do not mind if the bit is used by configuration in a directional fashion.  (It is odd, but clearly works.)
> 
> Yours,
> Joel
> 
> On 7/18/17 9:12 AM, Ron Parker wrote:
>> I support 5.4.1 (single SPI with direction indicated in SI).   That
>> being said, the approach effectively reduces SI by 1 bit and reallocates
>> that bit to direction.   Is it feasible to instead be explicit by
>> creating an direction bit?   Also, how do we refer to directions?
>> East/West?   North/South?  Left/Right?   Upstream/Downstream?
>>
>>      Ron
>>
>> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung
>> (kleung)
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:54 AM
>> *To:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson
>> <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>;
>> James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>> Hi Reinaldo. I agree we need to get agreement in WG and update the
>> draft soon as folks are unsure what to implement.
>>
>> It seems most folks have chimed in. Hereâ€™s the latest count. Iâ€™m
>> putting names down to make sure the count is accurate.
>>
>> Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):
>>
>> -(2) Dave, Joel
>>
>> Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):
>>
>> -(6) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul
>>
>> Do we have some rough consensus yet? Or wait for more opinions to decide?
>>
>> Kent
>>
>> *From:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:59 PM
>> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com
>> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com
>> <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl)
>> <robmgl@cisco.com <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; James N Guichard
>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>> Hi Kent/others,
>>
>> this decision is quite important for real deployments, as opposed to
>> demos and related.  I hope as the first step we all agree that we
>> cannot have more than one way of interpreting directionality of paths
>> and associated reverse paths. That would be an interoperability
>> nightmare and reduce the usefulness of NSH considerably.
>>
>> So, whatever way it goes the WG needs to embrace it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *From: *sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>> on
>> behalf of "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com
>> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>
>> *Date: *Monday, July 17, 2017 at 10:36 AM
>> *To: *Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com
>> <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)"
>> <robmgl@cisco.com <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>, James N Guichard
>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>> *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>" <sfc@ietf.org
>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>> Why canâ€™t there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per
>> SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing
>> counters for all flows in each service path. The latter is provide
>> counters for all flows served at each hop in the service path.
>>
>> Can you explain the â€œspiralâ€ scenario and how that pertains to
>> usefulness of having per service path stats? Thanks.
>>
>> Kent
>>
>> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
>> *To:* Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com
>> <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; James N Guichard
>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>> *Cc:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com
>> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>> Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the
>> so-called spiral.
>>
>> But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.
>>
>> *From:*Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
>> *To:* James N Guichard
>> *Cc:* Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>> I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each
>> direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on
>> the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed
>> just based on SPI.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> Inviato da iPad
>>
>>
>> Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard
>> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>      Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my
>>      point was more from an operational perspective; if I use the same
>>      path ID in both directions then I cannot immediately tell in which
>>      direction the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and
>>      look at the SI leading to a correlation of SPI + SI to be able to
>>      figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.
>>
>>      Jim
>>
>>      *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
>>      *To:* James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>>      <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung)
>>      <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org
>>      <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>      *Subject:* RE: clarification on Service Path ID for
>>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>>      There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding
>>      depends on **both** SPI and SI.
>>
>>      So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the
>>      range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the
>>      same SPI.
>>
>>      The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
>>
>>      As I see it, Kentâ€™s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the
>>      same SPI used for two directions?
>>
>>      Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,
>>        consuming only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
>>
>>      It may make debugging easier as well.
>>
>>      Also, for what itâ€™s worth, we demonstrated this method of section
>>      5.4.1 at a previous IETF hackathon.
>>
>>      -Dave
>>
>>      *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
>>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
>>      *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>      *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>>      Hi Kent,
>>
>>      [personal opinion â€¦] I have always assumed that the service path ID
>>      would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid
>>      collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC
>>      a-b-c and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c
>>      (which imho will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a
>>      conflict if the same service path ID is used in both directions.
>>
>>      Jim
>>
>>      *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung
>>      (kleung)
>>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
>>      *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>      *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>>
>>      Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4
>>      proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions,
>>      most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section
>>      5.4. However, there are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service
>>      Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow direction (sect.
>>      5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on Serve Path
>>      ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed
>>      opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Service
>>      Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has
>>      been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?
>>
>>      If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer
>>      is easy (=> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get
>>      rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution.
>>      This problem is critical to address for Service Function that
>>      generate packet in reverse direction, especially security service
>>      functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
>>
>>      Thanks.
>>
>>      Kent
>>
>>      _______________________________________________
>>      sfc mailing list
>>      sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>      
>> https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_j
>> Yzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~
>>      
>> <https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_
>> jYzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_j
>> Yzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~
>>


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From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:48:20 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/OIfV7ZEDydU2WgIL0f0AlGw7-FY>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F7479@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <03cda27203ec4cc0b8c8cca7ffab2cad@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <bad829c9-2a90-af10-f06f-a9e90badf394@joelhalpern.com> <A925E36C-2C9B-42FD-96D5-736861AE8895@cisco.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/4niuWqViEOdyYvoKq2tMw9LltHQ>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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I beg you not to ask for more changes to NSH.  The document is in good 
shape.  It will never be perfect.  We need to finish it.

Having said that, if you really think we need to fix something in the 
document, you need to say so on the list.  I would VERY strongly request 
that if you do so, please include explicit new text and a clear 
description of where you think it goes.

Yours,
Joel

On 7/19/17 11:48 AM, Reinaldo Penno (repenno) wrote:
> My preference (as I explained to Dave offline) is based a lot on current implementations and the draft.
> 
> - I re-read NSH base and all examples have, as far as I can tell, unidirectional SPI. It might be legacy, an overlook, but that it is how I interpret it
> - Many vendors might have taken that to heart. Yes, I know, you should not cast in stone your implementations based on draftâ€¦still.
> 
> Irrespective if we change that or not I believe NSH base should clearly state the relationship between forwarding and Path (or Path + ID). Saying nothing is asking for one of those IETF mile-long threads where somebody will argue that saying nothing is the same as â€˜allowedâ€™.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> On 7/19/17, 11:37 AM, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
> 
>      Just for clarity, my preference between the algorithmic encoding methods
>      is quite small.
>      Yours,
>      Joel
>      
>      On 7/19/17 4:29 AM, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote:
>      > Hi Ron. The control plane (sect. 5.1) and encoded (sect. 5.3) methods are covered in the draft along with the pros and cons of each of the options. A method to generate asymmetric paths for asymmetric SFC is described in sect. 6. This technique is based on symmetric SI sequence with NOP. Both algorithmic (sects. 5.4.1 & 5.4.2) methods can leverage this SI scheme to support asymmetric SFC. So maybe we need to reword the draft better to explain that mirrored order for both directions is not assumed.
>      >
>      > Just updating the running count:
>      >
>      > Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):
>      >
>      > -	(4) Dave, Joel, Ron, Kyle
>      >
>      > Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):
>      >
>      > -	(6) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul
>      >
>      >   Kent
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Ron Parker [mailto:Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com]
>      > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:12 PM
>      > To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>      > Cc: sfc@ietf.org
>      > Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >
>      > Good point on the optionality of this bidirectional concept.
>      >
>      > For the bidirectional case, we would ultimately like to know the correlation of the 2 paths.    I'm thinking that this is more, even, than correlating the "forward" SPI and the "reverse" SPI.   It also becomes useful to correlate the position of a particular service function.   A strict presumption of mirrored order for the 2 directions does not always hold.   Lets say in the forward direction we want SF types A, B, C, D but in the reverse direction we want A, D, C, B.   It would be useful to know that SF D appears at the 4th position of the forward flow and the 2nd position of the correlated reverse flow.   This starts to become too heavy to insert into the encapsulation itself.   Instead, this full knowledge can be achieved through control plane distribution and stateful elements (e.g., SFF, SF).
>      >
>      > So, the encapsulation can carry all of the correlation information, none of the correlation information, or some of the correlation information.    I'm not so sure "some" is that useful.
>      >
>      >     Ron
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com]
>      > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:58 AM
>      > To: Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>      > Cc: sfc@ietf.org
>      > Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >
>      > Since there are not always two directions, I would prefer not to define that bit as always meaning direction.  I do not mind if the bit is used by configuration in a directional fashion.  (It is odd, but clearly works.)
>      >
>      > Yours,
>      > Joel
>      >
>      > On 7/18/17 9:12 AM, Ron Parker wrote:
>      >> I support 5.4.1 (single SPI with direction indicated in SI).   That
>      >> being said, the approach effectively reduces SI by 1 bit and reallocates
>      >> that bit to direction.   Is it feasible to instead be explicit by
>      >> creating an direction bit?   Also, how do we refer to directions?
>      >> East/West?   North/South?  Left/Right?   Upstream/Downstream?
>      >>
>      >>      Ron
>      >>
>      >> *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung
>      >> (kleung)
>      >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:54 AM
>      >> *To:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repenno@cisco.com>; Dave Dolson
>      >> <ddolson@sandvine.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>;
>      >> James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
>      >> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org
>      >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >> Hi Reinaldo. I agree we need to get agreement in WG and update the
>      >> draft soon as folks are unsure what to implement.
>      >>
>      >> It seems most folks have chimed in. Hereâ€™s the latest count. Iâ€™m
>      >> putting names down to make sure the count is accurate.
>      >>
>      >> Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):
>      >>
>      >> -(2) Dave, Joel
>      >>
>      >> Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):
>      >>
>      >> -(6) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul
>      >>
>      >> Do we have some rough consensus yet? Or wait for more opinions to decide?
>      >>
>      >> Kent
>      >>
>      >> *From:* Reinaldo Penno (repenno)
>      >> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:59 PM
>      >> *To:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com
>      >> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com
>      >> <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl)
>      >> <robmgl@cisco.com <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; James N Guichard
>      >> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>      >> *Cc:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >> Hi Kent/others,
>      >>
>      >> this decision is quite important for real deployments, as opposed to
>      >> demos and related.  I hope as the first step we all agree that we
>      >> cannot have more than one way of interpreting directionality of paths
>      >> and associated reverse paths. That would be an interoperability
>      >> nightmare and reduce the usefulness of NSH considerably.
>      >>
>      >> So, whatever way it goes the WG needs to embrace it.
>      >>
>      >> Thanks,
>      >>
>      >> *From: *sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>> on
>      >> behalf of "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com
>      >> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>
>      >> *Date: *Monday, July 17, 2017 at 10:36 AM
>      >> *To: *Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com
>      >> <mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com>>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)"
>      >> <robmgl@cisco.com <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>, James N Guichard
>      >> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>      >> *Cc: *"sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>" <sfc@ietf.org
>      >> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
>      >> *Subject: *Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >> Why canâ€™t there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per
>      >> SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing
>      >> counters for all flows in each service path. The latter is provide
>      >> counters for all flows served at each hop in the service path.
>      >>
>      >> Can you explain the â€œspiralâ€ scenario and how that pertains to
>      >> usefulness of having per service path stats? Thanks.
>      >>
>      >> Kent
>      >>
>      >> *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>      >> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
>      >> *To:* Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com
>      >> <mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; James N Guichard
>      >> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>
>      >> *Cc:* Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com
>      >> <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >> Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the
>      >> so-called spiral.
>      >>
>      >> But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.
>      >>
>      >> *From:*Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
>      >> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
>      >> *To:* James N Guichard
>      >> *Cc:* Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org
>      >> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >> draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >> I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each
>      >> direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on
>      >> the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed
>      >> just based on SPI.
>      >>
>      >> Regards,
>      >>
>      >> Roberta
>      >>
>      >> Inviato da iPad
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard
>      >> <james.n.guichard@huawei.com <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha
>      >> scritto:
>      >>
>      >>      Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my
>      >>      point was more from an operational perspective; if I use the same
>      >>      path ID in both directions then I cannot immediately tell in which
>      >>      direction the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and
>      >>      look at the SI leading to a correlation of SPI + SI to be able to
>      >>      figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.
>      >>
>      >>      Jim
>      >>
>      >>      *From:* Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
>      >>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
>      >>      *To:* James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com
>      >>      <mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung)
>      >>      <kleung@cisco.com <mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ietf.org
>      >>      <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >>      *Subject:* RE: clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >>      There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding
>      >>      depends on **both** SPI and SI.
>      >>
>      >>      So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the
>      >>      range [0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the
>      >>      same SPI.
>      >>
>      >>      The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.
>      >>
>      >>      As I see it, Kentâ€™s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the
>      >>      same SPI used for two directions?
>      >>
>      >>      Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,
>      >>        consuming only one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
>      >>
>      >>      It may make debugging easier as well.
>      >>
>      >>      Also, for what itâ€™s worth, we demonstrated this method of section
>      >>      5.4.1 at a previous IETF hackathon.
>      >>
>      >>      -Dave
>      >>
>      >>      *From:*sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *James N Guichard
>      >>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
>      >>      *To:* Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >>      *Subject:* Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >>      Hi Kent,
>      >>
>      >>      [personal opinion â€¦] I have always assumed that the service path ID
>      >>      would be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid
>      >>      collision in all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC
>      >>      a-b-c and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c
>      >>      (which imho will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a
>      >>      conflict if the same service path ID is used in both directions.
>      >>
>      >>      Jim
>      >>
>      >>      *From:* sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Kent Leung
>      >>      (kleung)
>      >>      *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
>      >>      *To:* sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >>      *Subject:* [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for
>      >>      draft-penno-sfc-packet
>      >>
>      >>      Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4
>      >>      proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions,
>      >>      most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section
>      >>      5.4. However, there are 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service
>      >>      Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow direction (sect.
>      >>      5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on Serve Path
>      >>      ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixed
>      >>      opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Service
>      >>      Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has
>      >>      been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?
>      >>
>      >>      If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer
>      >>      is easy (=> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get
>      >>      rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution.
>      >>      This problem is critical to address for Service Function that
>      >>      generate packet in reverse direction, especially security service
>      >>      functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
>      >>
>      >>      Thanks.
>      >>
>      >>      Kent
>      >>
>      >>      _______________________________________________
>      >>      sfc mailing list
>      >>      sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>      >>
>      >> https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_j
>      >> Yzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~
>      >>
>      >> <https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_
>      >> jYzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> _______________________________________________
>      >> sfc mailing list
>      >> sfc@ietf.org
>      >> https://url.serverdata.net/?a_R6iwBQImYWCr69g6-h0raXDRY2EORuQb3vcjuo_j
>      >> Yzi8LHrrWr1VlAzSt23U6FhEXpHwQ1RPMguMZ7RGyHHPw~~
>      >>
>      
> 


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From: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, "James N Guichard" <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:55:04 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/-qsUg9C8AMA6ILLeEOsbJm8azjU>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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We have appointed Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com> as working group 
secretary.  In addition to taking minutes, he will be helping the chairs 
with such tasks as agenda creation.

Our thanks to Tal for the work he has already put in with the minutes.

Yours,
Joel and Jim


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>,  "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 19:30:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol
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--_000_FBD729C6A24C488B8DB5B6633503CF36ciscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256"
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Adrian, Dave, we can add this.
Andrew, thanks much for checking your comments are addressed.
Med, thank you for the additional text and editorials. All addressed.

All,

Based on Med's most recent set of comments in Prague, I also identified a f=
ew small fixes in the field definitions and associated IANA parameter assig=
nment requests. For example, from RFC 8126, Reserved is very different from=
 Unassigned.

Since version numbers are cheap, new revision being submitted now.

FIN

Thanks!

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:adr=
ian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:

In general, it is worth explaining the converse of the SHOULD (i.e., the MA=
Y) even if *we* think it is obvious.

This stops the ADs coming back and placing a Discuss because the document "=
is not complete"

:-)

From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]
Sent: 19 July 2017 08:40
To: Dave Dolson
Cc: Andrew G. Malis; Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol

Thanks Dave. I think it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we recommend a behavio=
r but there may be valid reasons to do something different, with appropriat=
e reflection about potential consequences.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com<mailto:ddols=
on@sandvine.com>> wrote:
Can 2 be "SHOULD be dropped by default but MAY be configured to =FDforward"=
? Or is that obvious?


David Dolson
Sandvine
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis
Cc: Adrian Farrel; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol


Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!

Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:

1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. This is so that =
other document can define it.
1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advanced via Adrian's=
 draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assignment, and spec=
ification.
2. Add that "unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped", clarifying t=
hat behavior.
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: "NSH does not disallow it=
, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified."
4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex
5. Will change The should not process to SHOULD be drop for experimental pr=
otocols.

That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com<mailto:agm=
alis@gmail.com>> wrote:
Adrian,

Two comments.

1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main text, but 254 and 2=
55 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the other, and have it=
 the same at both places (I don=92t have a particular preference).

2. Does the text:

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT attempt to process=
=94 actually means.

Thanks,
Andy


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk<mailto:=
adrian@olddog.co.uk>> wrote:
Hi,

As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do
with unknown "Next Protocol" values. We also need to not block the future u=
se of
0x0 (which we might want for "none").

I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.

(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)

Adrian

---

Section 2.2
OLD
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x0: Reserved
   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.
NEW
   Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated data.
   NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the inner
   protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining.
   Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2.5.

   This document defines the following Next Protocol values:

   0x1: IPv4
   0x2: IPv6
   0x3: Ethernet
   0x4: NSH
   0x5: MPLS
   0xFE: Experiment 1
   0xFF: Experiment 2

   An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment
   [RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0xFE and
   0xFF.

   An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol value
   SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a packet.
   The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component within the
   SFC system.  For example, an SFF may be able to forward an NSH packet
   without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function to the
   payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protocol type.
   By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payload of an
   NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but this
   behavior SHOULD be configurable.
END

---

11.2.5

OLD
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
NEW
   IANA is requested to set up a registry of "Next Protocol".  These are
   8-bit values.  Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are defined
   in this document (see Table 7).  New values are assigned via "Expert
   Review" as per [RFC8126].

             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | Next Protocol | Description  | Reference     |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+
             | 0             | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 1             | IPv4         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 2             | IPv6         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 3             | Ethernet     | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 4             | NSH          | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 5             | MPLS         | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 6..253        | Unassigned   |               |
             |               |              |               |
             | 254           | Experiment 1 | This document |
             |               |              |               |
             | 255           | Experiment 2 | This document |
             +---------------+--------------+---------------+

               Table 7: NSH Base Header Next Protocol Values
END

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<div>
<div>Adrian, Dave, we can add this.&nbsp;<br>
Andrew, thanks much for checking your comments are addressed.&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Med, thank you for the additional text and e=
ditorials. All addressed.&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">All,&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Based on Med's most recent set of comments i=
n Prague, I also identified a few small fixes in the field definitions and =
associated IANA parameter assignment requests. For example, from RFC 8126, =
Reserved is very different from Unassigned.&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Since version numbers are cheap, new revisio=
n being submitted now.&nbsp;</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">FIN</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
Thanks!</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@ol=
ddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D">In general, it is worth explaining the converse of =
the SHOULD (i.e., the MAY) even if *we* think it is obvious.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D">This stops the ADs coming back and placing a Discus=
s because the document &quot;is not complete&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D">:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family=
:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;mso-ansi-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;;ms=
o-ansi-language:EN-US">
 Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@cisco.com">mailto:=
cpignata@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 19 July 2017 08:40<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Dolson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Andrew G. Malis; Adrian Farrel; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">=
sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Thanks Dave. I think it is implicit in the SHOULD -- we rec=
ommend a behavior but there may be valid reasons to do something different,=
 with appropriate&nbsp;reflection about potential consequences.&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><br>
Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-fa=
reast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;"><br>
On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:48 AM, Dave Dolson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sand=
vine.com">ddolson@sandvine.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">Can 2 be &quot;SHOULD be dropped by de=
fault but MAY be configured to =FDforward&quot;? Or is that obvious?<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;=
Times New Roman&quot;;color:#1F497D">David&nbsp;Dolson<br>
Sandvine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100=
%" style=3D"width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:1.5pt;background:white;mso-yfti-tb=
llook:1184;border-spacing:0px">
<tbody>
<tr style=3D"mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;font-size:initial;text-align:i=
nitial">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">Sent:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:34 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">To:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
Andrew G. Malis<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">Cc:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
Adrian Farrel;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times Ne=
w Roman&quot;">Subject:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=
Re: [sfc] Update to NSH spec - Unknown Next Protocol<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Thanks Adrian, Andy, and Dave!<br>
<br>
Closing the loop on all these points, as well as next steps for the NSH doc=
, planned updates:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">1. Specify protocol 0x0 is unassigned instead of reserved. =
This is so that other document can define it.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">1.5. Will not merge in Protocol =3D 0. That should be advan=
ced via Adrian's draft, just as any other protocol support allocation, assi=
gnment, and specification.&nbsp;<br>
2. Add that &quot;unknown protocol ids SHOULD be silently dropped&quot;, cl=
arifying that behavior.&nbsp;<br>
3. Allow different MD Type in a single SFP, like: &quot;NSH does not disall=
ow it, but such functionality would need to be explicitly specified.&quot;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">4. Will update the IANA numbers to hex<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-fa=
reast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">5. Will change The should no=
t process to SHOULD be drop for experimental protocols.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
That's the scope of plan changes. All good useful things, though we have en=
tered the diminishing returns territory.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"mso-fa=
reast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;"><br>
On Jul 18, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Andrew G. Malis &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:agmalis=
@gmail.com">agmalis@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Adrian,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Two comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">1. It=92s inconsistent to use 0xFE and 0xFF in the main tex=
t, but 254 and 255 in the IANA considerations. We should pick one or the ot=
her, and have it the same at both places (I don=92t
 have a particular preference).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">2. Does the text:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:9.5pt;mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp=
;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific experiment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.</span><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times=
 New Roman&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">mean drop or forward? We should be explicit what =93NOT att=
empt to process=94 actually means.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&g=
t; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">Hi,<br>
<br>
As we have been discussing we need to describe what implementations should =
do<br>
with unknown &quot;Next Protocol&quot; values. We also need to not block th=
e future use of<br>
0x0 (which we might want for &quot;none&quot;).<br>
<br>
I think we need the following two changes. My words in the last paragraph o=
f 2.2<br>
seem excessive and I would be happy to see them reduced.<br>
<br>
(Note that a couple of typos are also fixed in the changed text.)<br>
<br>
Adrian<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Section 2.2<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x0: Reserved<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Next Protocol: indicates the protocol type of the encapsulated=
 data.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH does not alter the inner payload, and the semantics on the=
 inner<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;protocol remain unchanged due to NSH service function chaining=
.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Please see the IANA Considerations section below, Section 11.2=
.5.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document defines the following Next Protocol values:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x1: IPv4<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x2: IPv6<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x3: Ethernet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x4: NSH<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0x5: MPLS<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFE: Experiment 1<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF: Experiment 2<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation not explicitly configured for a specific exp=
eriment<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC3692] SHOULD NOT attempt to process Next Protocol values 0=
xFE and<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;0xFF.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;An implementation that does not recognize the Next Protocol va=
lue<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SHOULD NOT attempt to examine or process the payload of a pack=
et.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;The meaning of this will depend on the role of a component wit=
hin the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;SFC system.&nbsp; For example, an SFF may be able to forward a=
n NSH packet<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;without reference to the payload, but an SF applies a function=
 to the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;payload and so might be expected to understand the Next Protoc=
ol type.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;By default, an implementation that needs to look at the payloa=
d of an<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;NSH packet MUST drop packets with unknown Next Protocol, but t=
his<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;behavior SHOULD be configurable.<br>
END<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
11.2.5<br>
<br>
OLD<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
NEW<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;IANA is requested to set up a registry of &quot;Next Protocol&=
quot;.&nbsp; These are<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;8-bit values.&nbsp; Next Protocol values 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are=
 defined<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;in this document (see Table 7).&nbsp; New values are assigned =
via &quot;Expert<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Review&quot; as per [RFC8126].<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Next Protocol | Descripti=
on&nbsp; | Reference&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| IPv6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Ethernet&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| NSH&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| MPLS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| This docu=
ment |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 6..253&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; | Unassigned&nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 254&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 1 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;|<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| 255&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;| Experiment 2 | This document |<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&#43;---------------&#43;--=
------------&#43;---------------&#43;<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Table 7: NSH Base He=
ader Next Protocol Values<br>
END<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-font-family:&quot;Times N=
ew Roman&quot;">_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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From nobody Wed Jul 19 12:33:13 2017
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-16.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Paul Quinn
                          Uri Elzur
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-16.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2017-07-19

Abstract:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-16
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-16

A diff from the previous version is available at:
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From: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 07:34:43 -0500
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Subject: [sfc] New Version Notification for draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05.txt
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--f403045cf6481e3b0c0554bef9da
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Folks,
We submitted a keep-alive revision of our hostid service header draft as
follows.
If you have any comments please post them on the list.

Regards,

Behcet

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:30 AM, <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
> A new version of I-D, draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader
> Revision:       05
> Title:          Service Function Chaining Service, Subscriber and Host
> Identification Use Cases and Metadata
> Document date:  2017-07-20
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          17
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-sfc-
> hostid-serviceheader-05.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/
> doc/draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-
> serviceheader-05
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-sarikaya-sfc-
> hostid-serviceheader-05
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-sarikaya-sfc-
> hostid-serviceheader-05
>
> Abstract:
>    This document discusses considerations related to passing service-,
>    host- and subscriber-related information to upstream Service
>    Functions for the sake of policy enforcement and appropriate SFC-
>    inferred forwarding.  Once the information is consumed by SFC-aware
>    elements of an SFC-enabled domain, the information is stripped from
>    packets so that privacy-sensitive information is not leaked outside
>    an SFC-enabled domain.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>

--f403045cf6481e3b0c0554bef9da
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Folks,<br></div>We submitted a keep-al=
ive revision of our hostid service header draft as follows.<br></div>If you=
 have any comments please post them on the list.<br><br></div>Regards,<br><=
br></div>Behcet<br><div><div><div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 7:30 AM,  <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">inter=
net-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-<wbr>serviceheader-05.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-<wb=
r>serviceheader<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A005<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Service Function Chaining Service,=
 Subscriber and Host Identification Use Cases and Metadata<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-07-20<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 17<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05.txt" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draf=
t-sarikaya-sfc-<wbr>hostid-serviceheader-05.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-sarikaya-sfc-host=
id-<wbr>serviceheader/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-<wbr>servi=
ceheader-05</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-sarikaya-s=
fc-<wbr>hostid-serviceheader-05</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-sarikaya-sfc-hostid-serviceheader-05" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-sari=
kaya-sfc-<wbr>hostid-serviceheader-05</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document discusses considerations related to passing serv=
ice-,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0host- and subscriber-related information to upstream Service<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Functions for the sake of policy enforcement and appropriate S=
FC-<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inferred forwarding.=C2=A0 Once the information is consumed by=
 SFC-aware<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0elements of an SFC-enabled domain, the information is stripped=
 from<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets so that privacy-sensitive information is not leaked ou=
tside<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0an SFC-enabled domain.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--f403045cf6481e3b0c0554bef9da--


From nobody Thu Jul 20 08:58:31 2017
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Subject: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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Hi,

Thanks for the recent set of revisions. I started reviewing -14 to
look for completion of my comments that I made on -12. I stuck with
that when -15 and -16 came out because otherwise I'd have to go
back and re-review.

You seem to have caught most points I raised, but not acted on a
few. I have discarded editorial nits and trivial points that you 
didn't include - they are not important. But there are a few missed
points listed below for attention. Sorry if I missed the discussion
on the list about any of these points: I went back to the archive, 
but didn't find anything.

As I went through I also picked up a few new (but small) points I have
included at the end of this email.

Thanks again for the focus and energy to complete this work.

Adrian

========

Why do you point to 7665 for the definition of "Classifier" but then
define "Service Classifier" to mean (AFAICS) exactly the same thing?

---

Wondering whether "Context Headers" should be "Context Header"
throughout.

---

OLD
3.2

   Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
   going forward with future NSH updates.  It MUST be set to 0x0 by the
   sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the widespread
   implementation of existing hardware that uses the first nibble after
   an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this document
   reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in future
   versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
   discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.
YOURS
2.2
   Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
   going forward with future NSH specification updates.  It MUST be set
   to 0x0 by the sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the
   widespread implementation of existing hardware that uses the first
   nibble after an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this
   document reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in
   future versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
   discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.

I believe this text is presuming the NSH-in-MPLS encapsulation. I don't
think it should do that, but if it does we have to look at the first
nibble not just the first two bits.

Now, as 4385 points out, if the first nibble is 4 or 6, IPv4 or IPv6
will be assumed. So 0b0100 or 0b0110 accounts for you reserving version
1 (just in case the C bit is 0 and for any value of the O bit). So far,
so good!

But 4385 defines a first nibble of 0000 to mean "here is a control word"
and that would mean you needed to reserve version 0 as well :-(

So my advice here would be that encapsulation in MPLS is not in scope
for this document, and you should not play with reserving version
numbers.

---

2.3

   In addition to indicating
   the location within a Service Function Path, SI can be used for
   service plane loop detection.

I think that, although this might still be true, the TTL will be more
helpful for loop detection and we should strike this text.

---

3.

   NSH-aware nodes are the only nodes that may alter the content of the
   NSH headers.

Is there a difference between an "SFC-aware node" and an "NSH-aware
node"? If not, you should retain the original terminology. If so, the
difference needs to be explained.

Isn't this sentence silly? "Only nodes that can understand the content
of the NSH can change the content of the NSH"

---

3.
Bullet 1

       Multiple logical classifiers may exist within a given service
       path.

There are several mentions of a "logical classifier" without discussion
or explanation. I looked in 7665 and did not find a description either.
I note that the "service classifier" in section 1.2 is described as 
being "logical" and that is also really unclear not just because of
the previous note on "service classifier" and "classifier" but because 
but because the term "logical" is possibly meant to men something.

Why can't you just say "classifier"?

---

In Figure 7

- Might an SFC proxy also select service policy for an NSH-unaware SF?

---

4.

   The presence of NSH is
   indicated via protocol type or other indicator in the outer
   encapsulation.

You are prejudging the "encapsulation of NSH" work that is to be done.
You may be largely correct, but not always. We should omit this text.

=============

Additional points on reading now...

---

In 2.2 I see

   0xF - this value is reserved for experimentation and testing, as per
   [RFC3692].  Implementations not explicitly configured to be part of
   an experiment SHOULD silently discard packets with MD Type 0x15.

<smile>

s/x15/xF/

But isn't this controversial? Should an SFF discard a packet with 
experimental metadata? 

Why can't an SF pass experimental metadata on to be used by a remote SF?
That would allow the experiment to be more flexible and more widely 
applied.

Finally, I wonder whether we shouldn't describe the processing when 
handling an unknown MD type. (Just like the unknown next protocol.)

---

Additionally, I don't see why 11.2.1 is a registry of "reserved bit" 
with each marked as Reserved (presumably in a 8126 sense).  Aren't these
actually Unassigned, and shouldn't a registry of bits include the O bit?


===========


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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From nobody Thu Jul 20 22:24:01 2017
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)'" <cpignata@cisco.com>
Cc: "'Service Function Chaining IETF list'" <sfc@ietf.org>
References: <0cbc01d30171$0416c650$0c4452f0$@olddog.co.uk> <DB13077F-A83C-4589-B45B-0C988531CC9B@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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I see no reasons for the April 1st RFC you mention: we already have RFC =
7282.
=20
=20
=20
From: Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com]=20
Sent: 21 July 2017 01:37
To: Adrian Farrel
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list
Subject: Re: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
=20
Hi, Adrian,=20
=20
An interesting idea just occurred to me! We could start working on a set =
of Performance Metrics for Internet-Draft Reviews =E2=80=94 we could =
define metrics (e.g., time to initial review, mean time between =
re-reviews), units (e.g., hours, days, months, IETF meetings), and =
specify mechanics for measurement (distribution of reviews after =
deadline) :-)
=20
I=E2=80=99ll be happy to contribute (or better to review! :-), we could =
shoot for publishing on April 1st, not specifying the year of course :-)
=20
Slightly more seriously, a few of these are already fixed in the =
currently posted revision.
=20
Fully seriously now:
=20
Thank you very much again Adrian for the newly discovered nits, =
editorials, and questions, and apologies on my behalf, editors, and WG =
for having missed some of the earlier comments. For real, thanks for the =
time and insight.
=20
I appreciate these and we should (and will) address them.
=20
*** However=E2=80=A6 ***
=20
Hi, Chairs,
=20
I very strongly recommend you ship the current revision to the AD. =
Nothing below is a show-stopper. We can continue integrating these in =
successive approximations towards perfection in /main, while publication =
is requested and the AD takes her/his time.
=20
We have to draw the line somewhere, so, here it goes, the line before =
the comments below:
=20
______________________________________
=20
Thanks!
=20
=E2=80=94 Carlos.
=20
On Jul 20, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
=20
Hi,

Thanks for the recent set of revisions. I started reviewing -14 to
look for completion of my comments that I made on -12. I stuck with
that when -15 and -16 came out because otherwise I'd have to go
back and re-review.

You seem to have caught most points I raised, but not acted on a
few. I have discarded editorial nits and trivial points that you=20
didn't include - they are not important. But there are a few missed
points listed below for attention. Sorry if I missed the discussion
on the list about any of these points: I went back to the archive,=20
but didn't find anything.

As I went through I also picked up a few new (but small) points I have
included at the end of this email.

Thanks again for the focus and energy to complete this work.

Adrian

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Why do you point to 7665 for the definition of "Classifier" but then
define "Service Classifier" to mean (AFAICS) exactly the same thing?

---

Wondering whether "Context Headers" should be "Context Header"
throughout.

---

OLD
3.2

  Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
  going forward with future NSH updates.  It MUST be set to 0x0 by the
  sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the widespread
  implementation of existing hardware that uses the first nibble after
  an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this document
  reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in future
  versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
  discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.
YOURS
2.2
  Version: The version field is used to ensure backward compatibility
  going forward with future NSH specification updates.  It MUST be set
  to 0x0 by the sender, in this first revision of NSH.  Given the
  widespread implementation of existing hardware that uses the first
  nibble after an MPLS label stack for ECMP decision processing, this
  document reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used in
  future versions of the protocol.  Please see [RFC7325] for further
  discussion of MPLS-related forwarding requirements.

I believe this text is presuming the NSH-in-MPLS encapsulation. I don't
think it should do that, but if it does we have to look at the first
nibble not just the first two bits.

Now, as 4385 points out, if the first nibble is 4 or 6, IPv4 or IPv6
will be assumed. So 0b0100 or 0b0110 accounts for you reserving version
1 (just in case the C bit is 0 and for any value of the O bit). So far,
so good!

But 4385 defines a first nibble of 0000 to mean "here is a control word"
and that would mean you needed to reserve version 0 as well :-(

So my advice here would be that encapsulation in MPLS is not in scope
for this document, and you should not play with reserving version
numbers.

---

2.3

  In addition to indicating
  the location within a Service Function Path, SI can be used for
  service plane loop detection.

I think that, although this might still be true, the TTL will be more
helpful for loop detection and we should strike this text.

---

3.

  NSH-aware nodes are the only nodes that may alter the content of the
  NSH headers.

Is there a difference between an "SFC-aware node" and an "NSH-aware
node"? If not, you should retain the original terminology. If so, the
difference needs to be explained.

Isn't this sentence silly? "Only nodes that can understand the content
of the NSH can change the content of the NSH"

---

3.
Bullet 1

      Multiple logical classifiers may exist within a given service
      path.

There are several mentions of a "logical classifier" without discussion
or explanation. I looked in 7665 and did not find a description either.
I note that the "service classifier" in section 1.2 is described as=20
being "logical" and that is also really unclear not just because of
the previous note on "service classifier" and "classifier" but because=20
but because the term "logical" is possibly meant to men something.

Why can't you just say "classifier"?

---

In Figure 7

- Might an SFC proxy also select service policy for an NSH-unaware SF?

---

4.

  The presence of NSH is
  indicated via protocol type or other indicator in the outer
  encapsulation.

You are prejudging the "encapsulation of NSH" work that is to be done.
You may be largely correct, but not always. We should omit this text.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Additional points on reading now...

---

In 2.2 I see

  0xF - this value is reserved for experimentation and testing, as per
  [RFC3692].  Implementations not explicitly configured to be part of
  an experiment SHOULD silently discard packets with MD Type 0x15.

<smile>

s/x15/xF/

But isn't this controversial? Should an SFF discard a packet with=20
experimental metadata?=20

Why can't an SF pass experimental metadata on to be used by a remote SF?
That would allow the experiment to be more flexible and more widely=20
applied.

Finally, I wonder whether we shouldn't describe the processing when=20
handling an unknown MD type. (Just like the unknown next protocol.)

---

Additionally, I don't see why 11.2.1 is a registry of "reserved bit"=20
with each marked as Reserved (presumably in a 8126 sense).  Aren't these
actually Unassigned, and shouldn't a registry of bits include the O bit?


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
=20
=E2=80=94
Carlos Pignataro, carlos@cisco.com

=E2=80=9CSometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to =
make myself sound more photosynthesis."
=20

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I see no reasons for the April =
1st RFC you mention: we already have RFC 7282.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-bidi-fon=
t-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-f=
ont-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US'> Carlos Pignataro =
(cpignata) [mailto:cpignata@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 21 July 2017 =
01:37<br><b>To:</b> Adrian Farrel<br><b>Cc:</b> Service Function =
Chaining IETF list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] Review of =
draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Hi, Adrian, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>An interesting idea just occurred to me! We could start working =
on a set of Performance Metrics for Internet-Draft Reviews =E2=80=94 we =
could define metrics (e.g., time to initial review, mean time between =
re-reviews), units (e.g., hours, days, months, IETF meetings), and =
specify mechanics for measurement (distribution of reviews after =
deadline) :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>I=E2=80=99ll be happy to contribute (or better to review! :-), =
we could shoot for publishing on April 1st, not specifying the year of =
course :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Slightly more seriously, a few of these are already fixed in the =
currently posted revision.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Fully seriously now:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Thank you very much again Adrian for the newly discovered nits, =
editorials, and questions, and apologies on my behalf, editors, and WG =
for having missed some of the earlier comments. For real, thanks for the =
time and insight.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>I appreciate these and we should (and will) address =
them.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>*** However=E2=80=A6 ***<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Hi, Chairs,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>I very strongly recommend you ship the current revision to the =
AD. Nothing below is a show-stopper. We can continue integrating these =
in successive approximations towards perfection in /main, while =
publication is requested and the AD takes her/his =
time.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>We have to draw the line somewhere, so, here it goes, the line =
before the comments below:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>______________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times =
New Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>=E2=80=94 Carlos.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>On Jul 20, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Adrian Farrel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>Hi,<br><br>Thanks =
for the recent set of revisions. I started reviewing -14 to<br>look for =
completion of my comments that I made on -12. I stuck with<br>that when =
-15 and -16 came out because otherwise I'd have to go<br>back and =
re-review.<br><br>You seem to have caught most points I raised, but not =
acted on a<br>few. I have discarded editorial nits and trivial points =
that you <br>didn't include - they are not important. But there are a =
few missed<br>points listed below for attention. Sorry if I missed the =
discussion<br>on the list about any of these points: I went back to the =
archive, <br>but didn't find anything.<br><br>As I went through I also =
picked up a few new (but small) points I have<br>included at the end of =
this email.<br><br>Thanks again for the focus and energy to complete =
this work.<br><br>Adrian<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>Why do =
you point to 7665 for the definition of &quot;Classifier&quot; but =
then<br>define &quot;Service Classifier&quot; to mean (AFAICS) exactly =
the same thing?<br><br>---<br><br>Wondering whether &quot;Context =
Headers&quot; should be &quot;Context =
Header&quot;<br>throughout.<br><br>---<br><br>OLD<br>3.2<br><br>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;Version: The version field is used to ensure backward =
compatibility<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;going forward with future NSH updates. =
&nbsp;It MUST be set to 0x0 by the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;sender, in this first =
revision of NSH. &nbsp;Given the =
widespread<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;implementation of existing hardware that uses =
the first nibble after<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;an MPLS label stack for ECMP =
decision processing, this document<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;reserves version 01 =
and this value MUST NOT be used in future<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;versions of the =
protocol. &nbsp;Please see [RFC7325] for =
further<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;discussion of MPLS-related forwarding =
requirements.<br>YOURS<br>2.2<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Version: The version field =
is used to ensure backward compatibility<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;going forward =
with future NSH specification updates. &nbsp;It MUST be =
set<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;to 0x0 by the sender, in this first revision of NSH. =
&nbsp;Given the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;widespread implementation of existing =
hardware that uses the first<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;nibble after an MPLS label =
stack for ECMP decision processing, this<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;document =
reserves version 01 and this value MUST NOT be used =
in<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;future versions of the protocol. &nbsp;Please see =
[RFC7325] for further<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;discussion of MPLS-related =
forwarding requirements.<br><br>I believe this text is presuming the =
NSH-in-MPLS encapsulation. I don't<br>think it should do that, but if it =
does we have to look at the first<br>nibble not just the first two =
bits.<br><br>Now, as 4385 points out, if the first nibble is 4 or 6, =
IPv4 or IPv6<br>will be assumed. So 0b0100 or 0b0110 accounts for you =
reserving version<br>1 (just in case the C bit is 0 and for any value of =
the O bit). So far,<br>so good!<br><br>But 4385 defines a first nibble =
of 0000 to mean &quot;here is a control word&quot;<br>and that would =
mean you needed to reserve version 0 as well :-(<br><br>So my advice =
here would be that encapsulation in MPLS is not in scope<br>for this =
document, and you should not play with reserving =
version<br>numbers.<br><br>---<br><br>2.3<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;In addition =
to indicating<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;the location within a Service Function =
Path, SI can be used for<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;service plane loop =
detection.<br><br>I think that, although this might still be true, the =
TTL will be more<br>helpful for loop detection and we should strike this =
text.<br><br>---<br><br>3.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;NSH-aware nodes are the =
only nodes that may alter the content of the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;NSH =
headers.<br><br>Is there a difference between an &quot;SFC-aware =
node&quot; and an &quot;NSH-aware<br>node&quot;? If not, you should =
retain the original terminology. If so, the<br>difference needs to be =
explained.<br><br>Isn't this sentence silly? &quot;Only nodes that can =
understand the content<br>of the NSH can change the content of the =
NSH&quot;<br><br>---<br><br>3.<br>Bullet =
1<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Multiple logical =
classifiers may exist within a given =
service<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;path.<br><br>There are =
several mentions of a &quot;logical classifier&quot; without =
discussion<br>or explanation. I looked in 7665 and did not find a =
description either.<br>I note that the &quot;service classifier&quot; in =
section 1.2 is described as <br>being &quot;logical&quot; and that is =
also really unclear not just because of<br>the previous note on =
&quot;service classifier&quot; and &quot;classifier&quot; but because =
<br>but because the term &quot;logical&quot; is possibly meant to men =
something.<br><br>Why can't you just say =
&quot;classifier&quot;?<br><br>---<br><br>In Figure 7<br><br>- Might an =
SFC proxy also select service policy for an NSH-unaware =
SF?<br><br>---<br><br>4.<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;The presence of NSH =
is<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;indicated via protocol type or other indicator in the =
outer<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;encapsulation.<br><br>You are prejudging the =
&quot;encapsulation of NSH&quot; work that is to be done.<br>You may be =
largely correct, but not always. We should omit this =
text.<br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>Additional =
points on reading now...<br><br>---<br><br>In 2.2 I =
see<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;0xF - this value is reserved for experimentation =
and testing, as per<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;[RFC3692]. &nbsp;Implementations not =
explicitly configured to be part of<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;an experiment SHOULD =
silently discard packets with MD Type =
0x15.<br><br>&lt;smile&gt;<br><br>s/x15/xF/<br><br>But isn't this =
controversial? Should an SFF discard a packet with <br>experimental =
metadata? <br><br>Why can't an SF pass experimental metadata on to be =
used by a remote SF?<br>That would allow the experiment to be more =
flexible and more widely <br>applied.<br><br>Finally, I wonder whether =
we shouldn't describe the processing when <br>handling an unknown MD =
type. (Just like the unknown next =
protocol.)<br><br>---<br><br>Additionally, I don't see why 11.2.1 is a =
registry of &quot;reserved bit&quot; <br>with each marked as Reserved =
(presumably in a 8126 sense). &nbsp;Aren't these<br>actually Unassigned, =
and shouldn't a registry of bits include the O =
bit?<br><br><br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br><br>________________=
_______________________________<br>sfc mailing list<br><a =
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ailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times =
New Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black'>=E2=80=94<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black'>Carlos Pignataro,&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"mailto:carlos@cisco.com">carlos@cisco.com</a><br><br><i>=E2=80=9C=
Sometimes I use big words that I do not fully understand, to make myself =
sound =
more&nbsp;photosynthesis.&quot;</i><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></di=
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------=_NextPart_000_0D8B_01D301E9.E9182DC0--



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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Dave Dolson" <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:32:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From nobody Tue Jul 25 18:55:11 2017
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From: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 01:55:04 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F7479@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <03cda27203ec4cc0b8c8cca7ffab2cad@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <bad829c9-2a90-af10-f06f-a9e90badf394@joelhalpern.com> <A925E36C-2C9B-42FD-96D5-736861AE8895@cisco.com>, <5b0089f70075435d8b2b6e4dc512770d@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Are the 5.4.2 folks willing to consider using the lower bit for odd/even pa=
irs instead of the upper bit?

David Dolson
Sandvine
  Original Message
From: Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:32 PM
To: Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; Rob=
erta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket


It seems enough time has elapsed for folks to chime in their preferences on=
 the solution option.

I believe that communication between two endpoints is based on flow traffic=
 from source to destination. A service path dictates which service function=
s are applied for the traffic. Technically, a flow is terminated at the rec=
eiving endpoint. So, the service path ended at the last hop. Communication =
may be uni-directional (one flow) or bi-directional (two flows). RFC 7665 d=
escribes SFC as steering of traffic flows through service functions. My int=
erpretation is that the service path is associated with the flow. A new flo=
w going in the reverse direction should be treated with a new service path =
(set up to handle that flow) and not continuation of the same service path =
(set up to handle original flow) in the forward direction. Seems logical to=
 me from that perspective.

The service path ID is used to identify the service path and the service in=
dex is used to identify the location within the service path as stated in c=
urrent NSH draft:

" NSH contains a Service Path Identifier (SPI) and a Service Index (SI).  T=
he SPI is, as per its name, an identifier" of the service path.

"The Service Index provides an indication of location within a service path=
."

Given that both options support asymmetric and symmetric SFCs, has anyone c=
hange their mind on selecting an option to go forth? Based on the feedback,=
 it seems that we all agree to choose one solution instead of allowing mult=
iple options for addressing reverse packet generation scenario. Now, what s=
hould we need to do to achieve that? Rock-paper-scissor? :)

Current count as Joel is OK with either option.

Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):

-       (4) Dave, Joel, Ron, Kyle

Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):

-       (7) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul, Joel

Kent

<snip>


From nobody Tue Jul 25 23:27:01 2017
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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From nobody Tue Jul 25 23:28:35 2017
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-17.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Paul Quinn
                          Uri Elzur
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-17.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2017-07-25

Abstract:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-17
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-17

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-17


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Review of draft-ietf-sc-nsh-14 (sic)
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From nobody Tue Jul 25 23:47:44 2017
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header (NSH)
        Authors         : Paul Quinn
                          Uri Elzur
                          Carlos Pignataro
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-18.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2017-07-25

Abstract:
   This document describes a Network Service Header (NSH) inserted onto
   packets or frames to realize service function paths.  NSH also
   provides a mechanism for metadata exchange along the instantiated
   service paths.  NSH is the SFC encapsulation required to support the
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture (defined in RFC7665).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-18
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-18

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-18


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--_000_510AFC6970614C08AD7832100231530Bciscocom_--


From nobody Wed Jul 26 00:07:49 2017
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: Dave Dolson <ddolson@sandvine.com>, "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Ron Parker <Ron_Parker@affirmednetworks.com>, "Roberta Maglione (robmgl)" <robmgl@cisco.com>, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:07:43 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F7479@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <03cda27203ec4cc0b8c8cca7ffab2cad@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <bad829c9-2a90-af10-f06f-a9e90badf394@joelhalpern.com> <A925E36C-2C9B-42FD-96D5-736861AE8895@cisco.com>, <5b0089f70075435d8b2b6e4dc512770d@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <20170726015503.5103687.96388.25593@sandvine.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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I think that would be a good compromise. If that would swing some of the 5.=
4.1 folks over, then I'm in favor of such an idea.

Kent
=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:55 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>; Reinaldo Penno (repenno) <repen=
no@cisco.com>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>; Ron Parker <Ron_Parke=
r@affirmednetworks.com>; Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com>; Jame=
s N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Are the 5.4.2 folks willing to consider using the lower bit for odd/even pa=
irs instead of the upper bit?

David Dolson
Sandvine
  Original Message
From: Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:32 PM
To: Reinaldo Penno (repenno); Joel M. Halpern; Ron Parker; Dave Dolson; Rob=
erta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket


It seems enough time has elapsed for folks to chime in their preferences on=
 the solution option.

I believe that communication between two endpoints is based on flow traffic=
 from source to destination. A service path dictates which service function=
s are applied for the traffic. Technically, a flow is terminated at the rec=
eiving endpoint. So, the service path ended at the last hop. Communication =
may be uni-directional (one flow) or bi-directional (two flows). RFC 7665 d=
escribes SFC as steering of traffic flows through service functions. My int=
erpretation is that the service path is associated with the flow. A new flo=
w going in the reverse direction should be treated with a new service path =
(set up to handle that flow) and not continuation of the same service path =
(set up to handle original flow) in the forward direction. Seems logical to=
 me from that perspective.

The service path ID is used to identify the service path and the service in=
dex is used to identify the location within the service path as stated in c=
urrent NSH draft:

" NSH contains a Service Path Identifier (SPI) and a Service Index (SI).  T=
he SPI is, as per its name, an identifier" of the service path.

"The Service Index provides an indication of location within a service path=
."

Given that both options support asymmetric and symmetric SFCs, has anyone c=
hange their mind on selecting an option to go forth? Based on the feedback,=
 it seems that we all agree to choose one solution instead of allowing mult=
iple options for addressing reverse packet generation scenario. Now, what s=
hould we need to do to achieve that? Rock-paper-scissor? :)

Current count as Joel is OK with either option.

Sect 5.4.1 (one service path ID, service index indicates flow direction):

-       (4) Dave, Joel, Ron, Kyle

Sect 5.4.2 (two service path IDs, each indicate flow direction):

-       (7) Sumandra, Jim, Kent, Renaldo, Roberta, Paul, Joel

Kent

<snip>


From nobody Wed Jul 26 00:39:16 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, "Service Function Chaining IETF list" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-18.txt
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From nobody Wed Jul 26 01:39:09 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 08:39:01 +0000
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com>, <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Hi Kent,

FWIW, there was an attempt to define this term in https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06. Below an excerpt from that draft:

=3D=3D
   o  Service Function Loop: If a Service Function Chain is structured
      to not invoke Service Functions multiple times, a loop is the
      error that occurs when the same Service Function is invoked
      several times when handling data bound to that Service Function
      Chain.  In other words, a loop denotes an error that occurs when a
      packet handled by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and
      arrives once again at that Service Function while this is not
      allowed by the Service Function Chain it is bound to.

   o  Service Function Spiral: denotes a Service Function Chain in which
      data is handled by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and
      arrives once again at that Service Function.

      *  Note that some Service Functions support built-in functions to
         accommodate spirals; these service-specific functions may
         require that the data received in a spiral should differ in a
         way that will result in a different processing decision than
         the original data.  This document does not make such
         assumption.

      *  A Service Function Chain may involve one or more Service
         Function Spirals.

      *  Unlike Service Function loop, spirals are not considered as
         errors.
=3D=3D

Cheers,
Med

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Kent Leung (kleung)
Envoy=E9 : lundi 17 juillet 2017 15:37
=C0 : Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc : sfc@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pack=
et

Why can't there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI=
? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing counters f=
or all flows in each service path. The latter is provide counters for all f=
lows served at each hop in the service path.

Can you explain the "spiral" scenario and how that pertains to usefulness o=
f having per service path stats? Thanks.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com<mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; =
James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawe=
i.com>>
Cc: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ie=
tf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Hi Kent,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">FWIW, there was an attempt to d=
efine this term in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06</a>. Below=
 an excerpt from that draft: &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; Service Function Loop:=
 If a Service Function Chain is structured<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to not invok=
e Service Functions multiple times, a loop is the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; error that o=
ccurs when the same Service Function is invoked<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; several time=
s when handling data bound to that Service Function<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Chain.&nbsp;=
 In other words, a loop denotes an error that occurs when a<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; packet handl=
ed by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; arrives once=
 again at that Service Function while this is not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed by t=
he Service Function Chain it is bound to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; Service Function Spira=
l: denotes a Service Function Chain in which<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; data is hand=
led by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; arrives once=
 again at that Service Function.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Note=
 that some Service Functions support built-in functions to<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; accommodate spirals; these service-specific functions may<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; require that the data received in a spiral should differ in a<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; way that will result in a different processing decision than<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; the original data.&nbsp; This document does not make such<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; assumption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; A Se=
rvice Function Chain may involve one or more Service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; Function Spirals.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Unli=
ke Service Function loop, spirals are not considered as<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"=
>errors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc =
[mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>De la part de</b> Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> lundi 17 juillet 2017 15:37<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard<=
br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-pe=
nno-sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"color:#1F497D">Why can&#8217;t there be stats for per SPI and more gr=
anular stats for per SPI/SI? They seem to serve different purposes. The for=
mer is providing counters for all flows in each
 service path. The latter is provide counters for all flows served at each =
hop in the service path.<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Can you=
 explain the &#8220;spiral&#8221; scenario and how that pertains to usefuln=
ess of having per service path stats? Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com">mailto:ddo=
lson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com=
">robmgl@cisco.com</a>&gt;; James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.=
guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleu=
ng@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictl=
y, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I c=
an see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:robmgl@cisco.com</=
span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a=
 href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&=
quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">sfc@ietf.org</span></a></span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I agree on the operational aspe=
ct: having different SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshootin=
g procedures, as statistics on the packets counters for each direction on e=
ach SF, can be displayed just based
 on SPI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes und=
erstood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more =
from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directio=
ns then I cannot immediately tell in which
 direction the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at =
the SI leading to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my=
 traffic matrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com">mailto:ddo=
lson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">There i=
s not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>bo=
th</b>* SPI and SI.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for =
example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127]=
 of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">The lim=
itation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I se=
e it, Kent&#8217;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SP=
I used for two directions?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Persona=
lly, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only on=
e path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may =
make debugging easier as well.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, f=
or what it&#8217;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a=
 previous IETF hackathon.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> sfc [</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a></spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mail=
to:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">sfc@ietf.org</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent=
,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[person=
al opinion &#8230;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be=
 uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all=
 forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic
 SFC a-b-c and the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c=
 (which imho will be the normal practice) then at b you would have a confli=
ct if the same service path ID is used in both directions.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces=
@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi. We are working on a revisio=
n for this draft. There were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. Duri=
ng some discussions, most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method=
 in section 5.4. However, there are
 2 sub-options. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Inde=
x to determine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting =
high order bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4=
.2). There are mixed opinions. One
 reason is that there may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-dire=
ctional. No explicit wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFC=
s, maybe we missed something?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If Serve Path ID is required to=
 be uni-directional, then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like=
 to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus and revised the next version=
 with that solution. This problem is critical
 to address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction,=
 especially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-us=
e-cases.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">_____________________=
__________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"=
font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"=
>sfc@ietf.org</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</span></a>=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tim=
es New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Hi Mohamed. Thanks for the reference. Dave did explain "spiral" as describe=
d below.

Kent

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@oran=
ge.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 1:39 AM
To: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com>
Cc: sfc@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

FWIW, there was an attempt to define this term in https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06. Below an excerpt from that draft:

=3D=3D
   o  Service Function Loop: If a Service Function Chain is structured
      to not invoke Service Functions multiple times, a loop is the
      error that occurs when the same Service Function is invoked
      several times when handling data bound to that Service Function
      Chain.  In other words, a loop denotes an error that occurs when a
      packet handled by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and
      arrives once again at that Service Function while this is not
      allowed by the Service Function Chain it is bound to.

   o  Service Function Spiral: denotes a Service Function Chain in which
      data is handled by a Service Function, forwarded onwards, and
      arrives once again at that Service Function.

      *  Note that some Service Functions support built-in functions to
         accommodate spirals; these service-specific functions may
         require that the data received in a spiral should differ in a
         way that will result in a different processing decision than
         the original data.  This document does not make such
         assumption.

      *  A Service Function Chain may involve one or more Service
         Function Spirals.

      *  Unlike Service Function loop, spirals are not considered as
         errors.
=3D=3D

Cheers,
Med

De : sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Kent Leung (kleung)
Envoy=E9 : lundi 17 juillet 2017 15:37
=C0 : Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard
Cc : sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Objet : Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pack=
et

Why can't there be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI=
? They seem to serve different purposes. The former is providing counters f=
or all flows in each service path. The latter is provide counters for all f=
lows served at each hop in the service path.

Can you explain the "spiral" scenario and how that pertains to usefulness o=
f having per service path stats? Thanks.

Kent


From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM
To: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) <robmgl@cisco.com<mailto:robmgl@cisco.com>>; =
James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawe=
i.com>>
Cc: Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>>; sfc@ie=
tf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Strictly, stats should be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called=
 spiral.
But I can see how folks might find the lazy implementation to be useful.

From: Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [mailto:robmgl@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM
To: James N Guichard
Cc: Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

I agree on the operational aspect: having different SPI's for each directio=
n simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as statistics on the packets c=
ounters for each direction on each SF, can be displayed just based on SPI.
Regards,
Roberta

Inviato da iPad

Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.com>> ha scritto:
Yes understood but I was assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point wa=
s more from an operational perspective; if I use the same path ID in both d=
irections then I cannot immediately tell in which direction the packets are=
 flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI leading to a correl=
ation of SPI + SI to be able to figure out my traffic matrix. Not so if the=
 SPI is uni-directional.

Jim

From: Dave Dolson [mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM
To: James N Guichard <james.n.guichard@huawei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@h=
uawei.com>>; Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com<mailto:kleung@cisco.com>=
>; sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

There is not actually forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on=
 *both* SPI and SI.
So for example, there is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range =
[0,127] of up-link and range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.
The limitation is ~127 SFs per path instead of ~255.

As I see it, Kent's question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same S=
PI used for two directions?

Personally, I find use of a single SPI to be more elegant,  consuming only =
one path ID instead of two. (section 5.4.1).
It may make debugging easier as well.

Also, for what it's worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at =
a previous IETF hackathon.

-Dave


From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James N Guichard
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pac=
ket

Hi Kent,

[personal opinion ...] I have always assumed that the service path ID would=
 be uni-directional given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in =
all forwarding scenarios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and the service =
index is set to 255 at the classifiers a & c (which imho will be the normal=
 practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same service path ID =
is used in both directions.

Jim

From: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM
To: sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
Subject: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet

Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. There were 4 proposed solu=
tion options in section 5. During some discussions, most folks seem to favo=
r the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. However, there are 2 sub-op=
tions. One is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to dete=
rmine flow direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high orde=
r bit on Serve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). Ther=
e are mixed opinions. One reason is that there may be the assumption the Se=
rvice Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit wording of that nature has be=
en encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed something?

If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, then the answer is easy=
 (=3D> 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG comments to get rough consensus =
and revised the next version with that solution. This problem is critical t=
o address for Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, e=
specially security service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-=
cases.

Thanks.

Kent
_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org<mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#1F=
497D">Hi Mohamed. Thanks for the reference. Dave did explain &#8220;spiral&=
#8221; as described below.
<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<span style=3D"mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
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<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On=
 Behalf Of
</b>mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 26, 2017 1:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;kleung@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> sfc@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif;color:black">Hi Kent,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black">FWIW, there was an attempt to define thi=
s term in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-sfc-requirements-06</a>. Below=
 an excerpt from that draft: &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; Service Function Loop: If a Ser=
vice Function Chain is structured<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to not invoke Service=
 Functions multiple times, a loop is the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; error that occurs whe=
n the same Service Function is invoked<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; several times when ha=
ndling data bound to that Service Function<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Chain.&nbsp; In other=
 words, a loop denotes an error that occurs when a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; packet handled by a S=
ervice Function, forwarded onwards, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; arrives once again at=
 that Service Function while this is not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed by the Servic=
e Function Chain it is bound to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp; o&nbsp; Service Function Spiral: denote=
s a Service Function Chain in which<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; data is handled by a =
Service Function, forwarded onwards, and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; arrives once again at=
 that Service Function.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Note that som=
e Service Functions support built-in functions to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acc=
ommodate spirals; these service-specific functions may<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; req=
uire that the data received in a spiral should differ in a<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; way=
 that will result in a different processing decision than<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the=
 original data.&nbsp; This document does not make such<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ass=
umption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; A Service Fun=
ction Chain may involve one or more Service<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fun=
ction Spirals.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; Unlike Servic=
e Function loop, spirals are not considered as<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;,serif">errors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black">=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;,serif;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">De&nbsp;:</span></b><span lang=3D"FR"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc =
[<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>De la part de</b> Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> lundi 17 juillet 2017 15:37<br>
<b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Dave Dolson; Roberta Maglione (robmgl); James N Guichard<=
br>
<b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-pe=
nno-sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Why can&#8217;t there =
be stats for per SPI and more granular stats for per SPI/SI? They seem to s=
erve different purposes. The former is providing counters for all flows in =
each service path. The latter is provide counters
 for all flows served at each hop in the service path.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Can you explain the &#=
8220;spiral&#8221; scenario and how that pertains to usefulness of having p=
er service path stats? Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kent<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com=
">robmgl@cisco.com</a>&gt;; James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.=
guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleu=
ng@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Strictly, stats should=
 be per SPI and SI, in order to support the so-called spiral.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I can see how folk=
s might find the lazy implementation to be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Roberta Maglione (robmgl) [</spa=
n><a href=3D"mailto:robmgl@cisco.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:robmgl@cisco.com</span></a><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 17, 2017 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dave Dolson; Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@i=
etf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,san=
s-serif">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I agree on the operational aspect: having different =
SPI's for each direction simplifies the troubleshooting procedures, as stat=
istics on the packets counters for each direction on each SF, can be displa=
yed just based on SPI.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roberta&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Inviato da iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Il giorno 15 lug 2017, alle ore 01:09, James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:james.n.guichard@huawei.com">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt; ha scri=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Yes understood but I w=
as assuming no manipulation of the SI and my point was more from an operati=
onal perspective; if I use the same path ID in both directions then I canno=
t immediately tell in which direction
 the packets are flowing unless I go one step deeper and look at the SI lea=
ding to a correlation of SPI &#43; SI to be able to figure out my traffic m=
atrix. Not so if the SPI is uni-directional.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Dolson [<a href=3D"mailto:ddolson@=
sandvine.com">mailto:ddolson@sandvine.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James N Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@huawei.c=
om">james.n.guichard@huawei.com</a>&gt;; Kent Leung (kleung) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:kleung@cisco.com">kleung@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-pa=
cket<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is not actually =
forwarding ambiguity, since SFF forwarding depends on *<b>both</b>* SPI and=
 SI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So for example, there =
is no ambiguity in forwarding to use SI in the range [0,127] of up-link and=
 range [128,255] for down-link, on the same SPI.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The limitation is ~127=
 SFs per path instead of ~255.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">As I see it, Kent&#821=
7;s question is one of aesthetics. Do folks like the same SPI used for two =
directions?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Personally, I find use=
 of a single SPI to be more elegant, &nbsp;consuming only one path ID inste=
ad of two. (section 5.4.1).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It may make debugging =
easier as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Also, for what it&#821=
7;s worth, we demonstrated this method of section 5.4.1 at a previous IETF =
hackathon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Dave</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> sfc [</span><a href=3D"mailto:sf=
c-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James N Guichard<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 2:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); </span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">sfc@=
ietf.org</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-=
sfc-packet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kent,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[personal opinion &#82=
30;] I have always assumed that the service path ID would be uni-directiona=
l given that it would be difficult to avoid collision in all forwarding sce=
narios. If you look at a basic SFC a-b-c and
 the service index is set to 255 at the classifiers a &amp; c (which imho w=
ill be the normal practice) then at b you would have a conflict if the same=
 service path ID is used in both directions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Jim</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> sfc [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf=
.org">mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent Leung (kleung)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 14, 2017 1:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-=
packet<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi. We are working on a revision for this draft. The=
re were 4 proposed solution options in section 5. During some discussions, =
most folks seem to favor the use of algorithmic method in section 5.4. Howe=
ver, there are 2 sub-options. One
 is based on same Service Path ID and using Service Index to determine flow=
 direction (sect. 5.4.1). The other is based on setting high order bit on S=
erve Path ID, which determines flow direction (sect. 5.4.2). There are mixe=
d opinions. One reason is that there
 may be the assumption the Service Path ID is uni-directional. No explicit =
wording of that nature has been encountered in the RFCs, maybe we missed so=
mething?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Serve Path ID is required to be uni-directional, =
then the answer is easy (=3D&gt; 5.4.2). We would like to solicit WG commen=
ts to get rough consensus and revised the next version with that solution. =
This problem is critical to address for
 Service Function that generate packet in reverse direction, especially sec=
urity service functions as mentioned in draft-wang-sfc-ns-use-cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh
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As per the earlier discussions on the email list, and the discussions at 
the meeting, the editor has made revisions to reflect the WG final comments.
In consultation with my co-chair, we have forwarded the document to our 
AD (Alia Atlas) for IETF last call and IESG approval.

Thank you for your continued engagement,
Yours,
Joel


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:53:19 -0700
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
To: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh@ietf.org, jmh@joelhalpern.com, sfc-chairs@ietf.org


The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh has been changed to "WG Consensus:
Waiting for Write-Up" from "Waiting for WG Chair Go-Ahead" by Joel Halpern:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh/


From nobody Wed Jul 26 23:36:26 2017
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
CC: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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References: <91d8a4564df24299a24bee2688c9f6a6@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0D62@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9060316@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <BF1BE6D99B52F84AB9B48B7CF6F17DA3EF0DF8@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com> <F241AD1D-A007-4AC7-A2B0-19550F1FF52C@cisco.com> <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E98A9064B5C@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <99da3de545b142f5b9400f808f418fa1@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <7B36C41A-EBE1-453E-BB25-04377E63B559@cisco.com> <6a0788234fec45909112016317e149fd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F731A@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <6fa79c3c-6ae7-7818-47b3-1c71de2f0c50@joelhalpern.com> <CDF2F015F4429F458815ED2A6C2B6B0B839F7479@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <03cda27203ec4cc0b8c8cca7ffab2cad@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <bad829c9-2a90-af10-f06f-a9e90badf394@joelhalpern.com> <A925E36C-2C9B-42FD-96D5-736861AE8895@cisco.com> <5b0089f70075435d8b2b6e4dc512770d@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300A01326E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <93596249c1e04032ae66695bd90868dd@XCH-RTP-006.cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-aggregation-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A Service Chain Aggregation Architecture
        Authors         : Huan Yan
                          Yong Li
                          Haiyang Sun
                          Chunshan Xiong
                          Depeng Jin
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-aggregation-00.txt
	Pages           : 5
	Date            : 2017-07-27

Abstract:
Service chains specifying the ordered sequences of network functions according to network policies requested, play a very important role in improving network performance in most networks. With the introduction of Software-Defined Networking (SDN) and Network Function Virtualization (NFV) technologies, service chains can be immediately deployed in more effective ways. Since different customers or operators would request multiple service chains in the same network but different administrative domains, and the multiple service chains may apply to the same network connection, we propose a service chain aggregation architecture that has ability to effectively aggregate them before the deployment. In this architecture, we determine the aggregating order of service chains according to different conditions verifying the aggregation effectiveness. The benefits of our architecture are 1) security, 2) network resource (e.g., flow entries in switches) savings and 3) scalability.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
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There are also htmlized versions available at:
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https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-aggregation-00


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/ncPf_H2l5myQmc4F4HSCryU50yA>
Subject: Re: [sfc] clarification on Service Path ID for draft-penno-sfc-packet
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