From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Jul 3 10:25:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E109511E81A0; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CUQW6Y-Z+QVj; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F159911E80A4; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:25:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.30 Message-ID: <20120703172557.17277.97699.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:25:57 -0700 Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:25:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Le= veraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for = the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) Author(s) : Christer Holmberg Staffan Blau Eric Burger Filename : draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2012-07-03 Abstract: This document defines a Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) extension, Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA). Support of the extension is OPTIONAL. The extension allows middleboxes to anchor the MSRP connection, without the need for middleboxes to modify the MSRP messages, and thus also enables a secure end-to-end MSRP communication in networks where such middleboxes are deployed. The document also defines a Session Description Protocol (SDP) attribute, 'msrp-cema', that MSRP endpoints use to indicate support of the CEMA extension. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Tue Jul 3 10:28:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59FD11E80AD for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gv97YedRV6it for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw2.ericsson.se (mailgw2.ericsson.se [193.180.251.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082F421F844F for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:28:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b7fc16d000005db2-ff-4ff32bd03946 Received: from esessmw0197.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw2.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 78.02.23986.0DB23FF4; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:28:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.237]) by esessmw0197.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.115.87]) with mapi; Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:28:48 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Simple WG Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 19:28:47 +0200 Thread-Topic: Draft new version: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07 Thread-Index: Ac1ZQU1khYXoKynOSBi/vAgYbUP5hg== Message-ID: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853405CC4C52@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853405CC4C52ESESSCMS0356e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvre4F7c/+Bif3q1pcm9PIZtF7+xm7 xcKJ/1gtpu+9xm6x49wEFgdWj7XdV9k87sz5wOqxZMlPJo9ZO5+weHy5/JktgDWKyyYlNSez LLVI3y6BK+Ppj1MsBU08FedWTmVqYLzA1cXIySEhYCIxZfklZghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEICpxgl ep+cZIVwFjBKrFl5iKWLkYODTcBCovufNkiDiIC8xIvZv5hAapgF/jFKvOy6zwKSYBFQkWh/ +ZkJxBYWsJLYsLSDBaLBXuLH1OWsELaexNWm42wgM3kFwiXeTbMHCTMCHfH91BqwVmYBcYlb T+YzQRwnILFkz3moQ0UlXj7+xwpRLypxp309I0R9vsSRW2fAbF4BQYmTM5+wTGAUnoVk1Cwk ZbOQlEHEdSQW7P7EBmFrSyxb+JoZxj5z4DETsvgCRvZVjMK5iZk56eVGeqlFmcnFxfl5esWp mxiBcXdwy2/VHYx3zokcYpTmYFES57XeusdfSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4ECMTB6dUA+P2 y/OSDDSObmCPnmRp/nhNmMWSKpcp51ouajKdd6hyKzeoinPryXsglHz/00RujqW9L08fj2iv XSTSeW/9Gk15o8d6cm4m2nozZ2Z5Hj61vPz+ubDeEwGyOUuTOsw+bdj6SYXn/6Y70j+fm3vx Pn7yN99tG0fsV8kks9spgk23fgluz1k2Y7oSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgCdsEAMiQIAAA== Cc: "turners@ieca.com" , "simple-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: [Simple] Draft new version: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07 X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:28:45 -0000 --_000_7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853405CC4C52ESESSCMS0356e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've submitted a new version of the CEMA draft, which contains the addition= al security considerations text suggested by Stephen. Thanks! Regards, Christer --_000_7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853405CC4C52ESESSCMS0356e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hi,
 
I've submitted a new version of the CEMA draft, which= contains the additional security considerations text suggested by Stephen.=
 
Thanks!
 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
 --_000_7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A05853405CC4C52ESESSCMS0356e_-- From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Fri Jul 6 06:54:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AD221F86DB; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:54:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kGPf+1g7pCZq; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1BA21F86EA; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 06:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.30p2 Message-ID: <20120706135416.6080.84149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 06:54:16 -0700 Cc: simple chair , simple mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [Simple] Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 13:54:17 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Gonzalo Camarillo and Robert Sparks. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema/ Technical Summary RFC4976 describes how to use MSRP over special purpose MSRP relays, in order to traverse NATs and firewalls, and to allow network policy enforcement. However, many networks use other middleboxes for this purpose for other SIP-signaled media, and would like to use the same middleboxes for MSRP. This draft describes an extension to MSRP to make it easier for them to do so. Working Group Summary The goal of the draft that this one replaced (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-sessmatch) was controversial in the SIMPLE work group. The authors of RFC4975 and 4976 initially objected to the modification of the protocol to make it more friendly to non-standardized middleboxes such as SBCs. However, those objections were generally secondary to security related objections that the older draft interfered with some TLS use cases. The working group has a consensus that the security issues do not apply to the current draft. In summary, draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-03 still extends the MSRP protocol to make it more friendly to middleboxes such as SBCs. The work group believes it does no incremental harm when compared with the case of using MSRP as defined in RFC4975 in the presence of such middleboxes--which would either result in communication failure, or the failure to anchor media at the middlebox. Document Quality Multiple participants have implemented or indicated an intent to implement it. Personnel The document shepherd for this document is Hisham Khartabil. The responsible Area Director is Gonzalo Camarillo. From ben@nostrum.com Fri Jul 6 13:15:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7090311E80BB for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Jqaad5gHnLD for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96E811E80A1 for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.12.30.47] ([4.30.77.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q66KFrJd031940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:15:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) From: Ben Campbell Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 15:15:53 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <52FF956F-7700-427C-8477-01168E04ACFE@nostrum.com> References: <20120706135416.6080.84149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Simple WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 4.30.77.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 20:15:45 -0000 Congratulations and thanks to Christer, Staffan, and Eric, as well as = everyone who engaged in the discussion on this list and in the WG = meetings. This has been a long, hard, process. This leaves only two drafts remaining on the SIMPLE charter! Thanks! Ben. Begin forwarded message: > From: The IESG > Subject: [Simple] Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media = Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' = to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) > Date: July 6, 2012 8:54:16 AM CDT > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: simple chair , simple mailing list = , RFC Editor >=20 > The IESG has approved the following document: > - 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message > Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' > (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) as Proposed Standard >=20 > This document is the product of the SIP for Instant Messaging and > Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group. >=20 > The IESG contact persons are Gonzalo Camarillo and Robert Sparks. >=20 > A URL of this Internet Draft is: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Technical Summary >=20 > RFC4976 describes how to use MSRP over special purpose MSRP relays, in = order > to traverse NATs and firewalls, and to allow network policy = enforcement. > However, many networks use other middleboxes for this purpose for = other > SIP-signaled media, and would like to use the same middleboxes for = MSRP. > This draft describes an extension to MSRP to make it easier for them = to do > so. >=20 > Working Group Summary >=20 > The goal of the draft that this one replaced > (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-sessmatch) was controversial in the SIMPLE = work > group. The authors of RFC4975 and 4976 initially objected to the > modification of the protocol to make it more friendly to = non-standardized > middleboxes such as SBCs. However, those objections were generally = secondary > to security related objections that the older draft interfered with = some TLS > use cases. The working group has a consensus that the security issues = do not > apply to the current draft. >=20 > In summary, draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-03 still extends the MSRP = protocol > to make it more friendly to middleboxes such as SBCs. The work group > believes it does no incremental harm when compared with the case of = using > MSRP as defined in RFC4975 in the presence of such middleboxes--which = would > either result in communication failure, or the failure to anchor media = at > the middlebox. >=20 > Document Quality >=20 > Multiple participants have implemented or indicated an intent to = implement > it. >=20 > Personnel >=20 > The document shepherd for this document is Hisham Khartabil. >=20 > The responsible Area Director is Gonzalo Camarillo. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Mon Jul 9 13:25:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B78C11E8112 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 13:25:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id taq0+I6ZWutw for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 13:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.ericsson.se (mailgw1.ericsson.se [193.180.251.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E435F11E80FE for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 13:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-b7f6c6d000001cc5-4e-4ffb3e3b4538 Received: from esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw1.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 60.59.07365.B3E3BFF4; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:25:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.100]) by esessmw0247.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.115.93]) with mapi; Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:25:31 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Ben Campbell , Simple WG Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 22:25:30 +0200 Thread-Topic: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNW8fHfnrRu9PlOUmbg8SWgf90+g== Message-ID: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534071B9900@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <20120706135416.6080.84149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <52FF956F-7700-427C-8477-01168E04ACFE@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <52FF956F-7700-427C-8477-01168E04ACFE@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvra613W9/g4Uf1S3md55mt9h7uIvF YuHEf6wOzB5Llvxk8pi18wmLx5fLn9kCmKO4bFJSczLLUov07RK4MmY+estcsFau4ubcFWwN jC8kuhg5OSQETCTu3J3PCGGLSVy4t54NxBYSOMUo8e89VxcjF5C9gFHi4sIbQAkODjYBC4nu f9ogpoiAvcTMN7og5cwC6RIndy9hBwmzCKhITDmWCNIpLHCWUWL6kW2MII6IwDlGieMbnoLt EhHQk1ix+RgTiM0rEC5x4uhaqL3FEktePwezOYHmn/t/jB3EZgS67fupNUwQy8Qlbj2ZzwRx s4DEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+xQtSLStxpX88IUa8jsWD3JzYIW1ti2cLXzBB7BSVOznzCMoFRbBaS sbOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjMK5iZk56eWGeqlFmcnFxfl5esWpmxiB0XRwy2/dHYynzokcYpTm YFES5+VK2u8vJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8iJGJg1OqgVFu5lyemLLOK7VCHTrxSi+7DB4V 9D5p3qzXJzW/Ue7U8lCGGzzczLyt+q6Walltf9yuOt/Wm7nD5uWczHd761UNcpfL/kmJDY/8 fuh5RCLPp6/xkirmuo+VNPWj3zYpsm6P8Wvr5ixi2D5rR2P+lt5Dicc9U4+s2vLW+teZ9PgQ cQmTlIYKJZbijERDLeai4kQArcvWFnQCAAA= Cc: "draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 20:25:08 -0000 Hi, I also want to say Thank You to everyone who has been involved in the proce= ss, providing feedback and input. Best regards, Christer ________________________________________ From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Ca= mpbell [ben@nostrum.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 11:15 PM To: Simple WG Cc: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media= Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)= ' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) Congratulations and thanks to Christer, Staffan, and Eric, as well as every= one who engaged in the discussion on this list and in the WG meetings. This= has been a long, hard, process. This leaves only two drafts remaining on the SIMPLE charter! Thanks! Ben. Begin forwarded message: > From: The IESG > Subject: [Simple] Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media An= choring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Prop= osed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) > Date: July 6, 2012 8:54:16 AM CDT > To: IETF-Announce > Cc: simple chair , simple mailing list , RFC Editor > > The IESG has approved the following document: > - 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message > Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' > (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) as Proposed Standard > > This document is the product of the SIP for Instant Messaging and > Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group. > > The IESG contact persons are Gonzalo Camarillo and Robert Sparks. > > A URL of this Internet Draft is: > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema/ > > > > > Technical Summary > > RFC4976 describes how to use MSRP over special purpose MSRP relays, in or= der > to traverse NATs and firewalls, and to allow network policy enforcement. > However, many networks use other middleboxes for this purpose for other > SIP-signaled media, and would like to use the same middleboxes for MSRP. > This draft describes an extension to MSRP to make it easier for them to d= o > so. > > Working Group Summary > > The goal of the draft that this one replaced > (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-sessmatch) was controversial in the SIMPLE work > group. The authors of RFC4975 and 4976 initially objected to the > modification of the protocol to make it more friendly to non-standardized > middleboxes such as SBCs. However, those objections were generally second= ary > to security related objections that the older draft interfered with some = TLS > use cases. The working group has a consensus that the security issues do = not > apply to the current draft. > > In summary, draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-03 still extends the MSRP protoco= l > to make it more friendly to middleboxes such as SBCs. The work group > believes it does no incremental harm when compared with the case of using > MSRP as defined in RFC4975 in the presence of such middleboxes--which wou= ld > either result in communication failure, or the failure to anchor media at > the middlebox. > > Document Quality > > Multiple participants have implemented or indicated an intent to implemen= t > it. > > Personnel > > The document shepherd for this document is Hisham Khartabil. > > The responsible Area Director is Gonzalo Camarillo. > > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple= From eburger@standardstrack.com Tue Jul 10 03:49:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DEE621F8763 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:49:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b6Gxv5slKI3d for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [173.247.254.120]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770E221F86B2 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:49:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip68-100-199-8.dc.dc.cox.net ([68.100.199.8]:60195 helo=[192.168.15.158]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SoY0m-0004JT-FM for simple@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 03:49:44 -0700 From: Eric Burger Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-138-685447694; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 06:49:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534071B9900@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> To: Simple WG References: <20120706135416.6080.84149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <52FF956F-7700-427C-8477-01168E04ACFE@nostrum.com> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A058534071B9900@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> Message-Id: <683F79DF-619D-4C44-90E9-DB8F30D09C0E@standardstrack.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: Re: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:49:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-138-685447694 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Me, too. It was a long time for me, and an even longer time for = Christer! A nice, cold, Canadian beer is in our future! On Jul 9, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I also want to say Thank You to everyone who has been involved in the = process, providing feedback and input. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________________ > From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Ben Campbell [ben@nostrum.com] > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 11:15 PM > To: Simple WG > Cc: draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema.all@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [Simple] Fwd: Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for = Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol = (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) >=20 > Congratulations and thanks to Christer, Staffan, and Eric, as well as = everyone who engaged in the discussion on this list and in the WG = meetings. This has been a long, hard, process. >=20 > This leaves only two drafts remaining on the SIMPLE charter! >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: The IESG >> Subject: [Simple] Protocol Action: 'Connection Establishment for = Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the Message Session Relay Protocol = (MSRP)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) >> Date: July 6, 2012 8:54:16 AM CDT >> To: IETF-Announce >> Cc: simple chair , simple mailing list = , RFC Editor >>=20 >> The IESG has approved the following document: >> - 'Connection Establishment for Media Anchoring (CEMA) for the = Message >> Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)' >> (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-07.txt) as Proposed Standard >>=20 >> This document is the product of the SIP for Instant Messaging and >> Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group. >>=20 >> The IESG contact persons are Gonzalo Camarillo and Robert Sparks. >>=20 >> A URL of this Internet Draft is: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Technical Summary >>=20 >> RFC4976 describes how to use MSRP over special purpose MSRP relays, = in order >> to traverse NATs and firewalls, and to allow network policy = enforcement. >> However, many networks use other middleboxes for this purpose for = other >> SIP-signaled media, and would like to use the same middleboxes for = MSRP. >> This draft describes an extension to MSRP to make it easier for them = to do >> so. >>=20 >> Working Group Summary >>=20 >> The goal of the draft that this one replaced >> (draft-ietf-simple-msrp-sessmatch) was controversial in the SIMPLE = work >> group. The authors of RFC4975 and 4976 initially objected to the >> modification of the protocol to make it more friendly to = non-standardized >> middleboxes such as SBCs. However, those objections were generally = secondary >> to security related objections that the older draft interfered with = some TLS >> use cases. The working group has a consensus that the security issues = do not >> apply to the current draft. >>=20 >> In summary, draft-ietf-simple-msrp-cema-03 still extends the MSRP = protocol >> to make it more friendly to middleboxes such as SBCs. The work group >> believes it does no incremental harm when compared with the case of = using >> MSRP as defined in RFC4975 in the presence of such middleboxes--which = would >> either result in communication failure, or the failure to anchor = media at >> the middlebox. >>=20 >> Document Quality >>=20 >> Multiple participants have implemented or indicated an intent to = implement >> it. >>=20 >> Personnel >>=20 >> The document shepherd for this document is Hisham Khartabil. >>=20 >> The responsible Area Director is Gonzalo Camarillo. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Simple mailing list >> Simple@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --Apple-Mail-138-685447694 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EDE21F8595 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J2Dp9UGapji7 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:34:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF23821F84D5 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2012 13:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.33] (cpe-76-187-92-156.tx.res.rr.com [76.187.92.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q6AKYZcu087748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:34:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 15:34:35 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <03F40873-47E1-4C11-B7EF-00EC7AD305A0@nostrum.com> References: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sa=FAl_Ibarra_Corretg=E9?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 76.187.92.156 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: Simple WG Subject: Re: [Simple] Using nicknames in conference event packages (draft-ietf-simple-chat) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 20:34:11 -0000 (as chair) Hi, and sorry for the late response.=20 The decision to use the xcon conference event package format is the = result of an explicit SIMPLE consensus call back in December of 2010. = That doesn't mean we can't readdress it, but we would need a really new = and strong technical reason to do so at this late stage. (The draft is = in IESG evaluation.) See the following email and the resulting thread: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg09093.html (as individual) The current text in the draft says use of that format is RECOMMENDED, = i.e. it's at SHOULD strength. According to RFC 2119, that means the "... = may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a = particular item, but the full implications must be understood and = carefully weighed before choosing a different course" allows an = implementation to choose another approach if there is good reason, and = the implementer is aware of the consequences of the decision." It seems to me that an implementation could choose to user other methods = to express a nickname and not necessarily be non-compliant. But I would = be concerned that doing so could cause interoperability problems between = switches and clients. Thanks! Ben. On Jun 14, 2012, at 9:37 AM, Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9 wrote: > Hi, >=20 > The draft-ietf-simple-chat specification states that the 'nickname' = extension defined by XCON (RFC 6501) should be used to convey the = nickname in the conference event package. I think section 7.4 could = clarify this a bit more, since the following may happen: >=20 > Alice joins the conference from multiple endpoints, but same AoR. The = way the conference event payload is defined, there will be only one = element, because the 'entity' attribute needs to be unique and in = the context of a SIP conference the entity most likely will be the = user's AoR. There will be 2 elements, representing each of = Alice's SIP clients, so putting the nickname there would IMHO make more = sense. >=20 > Also, using XCON just for the nickname attribute may not be desired by = some (that's me at least :-) ) so what about adding something along = these lines to section 7.4? "A conference focus MAY choose to use the = display-text element in the 'endpoint' or 'user' element to convey the = user's nickname". >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > -- > Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9 > AG Projects >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From saul@ag-projects.com Wed Jul 11 00:59:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2462421F8694 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.944 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.944 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2uN0+NeHoCb2 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sipthor.net (node06.dns-hosting.info [85.17.186.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBBF21F84C5 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 00:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.sipthor.net (Postfix, from userid 5001) id 4F71DB014D; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:59:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from imac.saghul.lan (ip3e830637.speed.planet.nl [62.131.6.55]) by mail.sipthor.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 433C5B006F; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:59:30 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sa=FAl_Ibarra_Corretg=E9?= In-Reply-To: <03F40873-47E1-4C11-B7EF-00EC7AD305A0@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 09:59:29 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00CB0F6A-8897-41E4-A4DB-EEC638253D21@ag-projects.com> References: <03F40873-47E1-4C11-B7EF-00EC7AD305A0@nostrum.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: Simple WG Subject: Re: [Simple] Using nicknames in conference event packages (draft-ietf-simple-chat) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 07:59:06 -0000 Hi Ben, On Jul 10, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > (as chair) >=20 > Hi, and sorry for the late response.=20 >=20 > The decision to use the xcon conference event package format is the = result of an explicit SIMPLE consensus call back in December of 2010. = That doesn't mean we can't readdress it, but we would need a really new = and strong technical reason to do so at this late stage. (The draft is = in IESG evaluation.) See the following email and the resulting thread: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg09093.html >=20 > (as individual) >=20 > The current text in the draft says use of that format is RECOMMENDED, = i.e. it's at SHOULD strength. According to RFC 2119, that means the "... = may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a = particular item, but the full implications must be understood and = carefully weighed before choosing a different course" allows an = implementation to choose another approach if there is good reason, and = the implementer is aware of the consequences of the decision." >=20 > It seems to me that an implementation could choose to user other = methods to express a nickname and not necessarily be non-compliant. But = I would be concerned that doing so could cause interoperability problems = between switches and clients. >=20 Thanks for your comments! It's unfortunate that I wasn't implementing nickname support back then = :-S Anyway, here is my concern, mainly based in my experience with its = implementation: The nickname is a replacement of a user's display name, and we have a = way to set it (MSRP NICKNAME) but there doesn't seem to be a reliable = way to convey this. If XCON is not implemented the draft doesn't specify = how one should proceed. I applied Common Sense (TM) and used the = display-text element in the User section (RFC 4575 payload). I'd love to = see a mention about this in the draft. XCON is recommended, yes, but requiring it just for the = element feels to much to me. It would be desirable that endpoints not = supporting XCON can also get the nickname in a non = implementation-specific way which they can rely upon. This brings me to another concern: the draft says that "A main difference is that a nickname is unique inside a chat room to allow an unambiguous reference to a participant in the chat." since not all participants might be using a nickname, is the focus = supposed to prevent setting a nickname which collides with a = participant's display name? If the element of a user or = endpoint contains either a display name or a nickname (as I proposed = above) then this should probably be checked, or endpoints connected to = the focus could be confused about participant's identity. Regards, -- Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9 AG Projects From geirsand@cisco.com Fri Jul 13 05:55:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FE821F8811 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 05:55:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hsNpYpmG3M9v for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 05:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C59721F8804 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 05:55:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4133; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1342184146; x=1343393746; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=PAaANJFoUxmvkZJkoPpyPFWquYlK1JYeNXjwD93m+I0=; b=eYdLvHdzvrwn8zH5OKiDY02qCuxHGmibycVDCZd6HvU29+HKv2vqMz6H ML0eOLTFvxxbuXlolftAQ2gFvwtb4YBKZDRQEAfRuFuCNk8MYX6LzC0Dj HlbDYZVm3kynbczEPAZnOD1cNftHOlB0MvbLpn6TISclGjzyLZp75Puxp A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAL0ZAFCtJXG+/2dsb2JhbAA8CbgggQeCIAEBAQQBAQEPAVUGBgUSAQgYVQslAgQBDQUJGYdrC5sfoCyLPBEJhVwDiBaNJI4ggWaCX4Ff X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,579,1336348800"; d="scan'208";a="98597744" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2012 12:55:46 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6DCtkKU018044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:55:46 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.114]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:55:45 -0500 From: "Geir Sandbakken (geirsand)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sa=FAl_Ibarra_Corretg=E9?= , "Ben Campbell" Thread-Topic: [Simple] Using nicknames in conference event packages (draft-ietf-simple-chat) Thread-Index: AQHNYPbRYcVTQQzkCEOMbaPW8XFnIg== Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:55:44 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00CB0F6A-8897-41E4-A4DB-EEC638253D21@ag-projects.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 x-originating-ip: [10.61.94.181] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19036.006 x-tm-as-result: No--58.367100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <46B2A380302DB94B89112994F802613A@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Simple WG Subject: Re: [Simple] Using nicknames in conference event packages (draft-ietf-simple-chat) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:55:11 -0000 Hi Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9, Listening to implementers is important - and we value your feedback. The nickname has been discussed at lengths - in the approximate 20 revisions of the draft numerous alternatives have been proposed. This includes usage of a nickname specific SIP AOR, a SIP URI parameter extension, a nickname attribute extension of RFC 4575 that would have required a bis, usage of display name part of the SIP AOR and finally the consensus decision of utilizing the XCON method that extends the USER element of 4575 with a nickname attribute. It's a bit risky to respond to either one of the alternatives from memory, but I believe that using the display name of the SIP AOR would be ambiguous for clients supporting or not supporting the extensions of this draft. Enforcing the nickname uniqueness is done by the 423 response code of the MSRP nickname request - and therefore is only applicable by UA's supporting the request. Thanks, Geir A On 7/11/12 9:59 AM, "Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9" wrote= : >Hi Ben, > >On Jul 10, 2012, at 10:34 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > >> (as chair) >>=20 >> Hi, and sorry for the late response. >>=20 >> The decision to use the xcon conference event package format is the >>result of an explicit SIMPLE consensus call back in December of 2010. >>That doesn't mean we can't readdress it, but we would need a really new >>and strong technical reason to do so at this late stage. (The draft is >>in IESG evaluation.) See the following email and the resulting thread: >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg09093.html >>=20 >> (as individual) >>=20 >> The current text in the draft says use of that format is RECOMMENDED, >>i.e. it's at SHOULD strength. According to RFC 2119, that means the "... >>may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a >>particular item, but the full implications must be understood and >>carefully weighed before choosing a different course" allows an >>implementation to choose another approach if there is good reason, and >>the implementer is aware of the consequences of the decision." >>=20 >> It seems to me that an implementation could choose to user other >>methods to express a nickname and not necessarily be non-compliant. But >>I would be concerned that doing so could cause interoperability problems >>between switches and clients. >>=20 > >Thanks for your comments! > >It's unfortunate that I wasn't implementing nickname support back then >:-S Anyway, here is my concern, mainly based in my experience with its >implementation: > >The nickname is a replacement of a user's display name, and we have a way >to set it (MSRP NICKNAME) but there doesn't seem to be a reliable way to >convey this. If XCON is not implemented the draft doesn't specify how one >should proceed. I applied Common Sense (TM) and used the display-text >element in the User section (RFC 4575 payload). I'd love to see a mention >about this in the draft. > >XCON is recommended, yes, but requiring it just for the >element feels to much to me. It would be desirable that endpoints not >supporting XCON can also get the nickname in a non >implementation-specific way which they can rely upon. > >This brings me to another concern: the draft says that > >"A main > difference is that a nickname is unique inside a chat room to allow > an unambiguous reference to a participant in the chat." > >since not all participants might be using a nickname, is the focus >supposed to prevent setting a nickname which collides with a >participant's display name? If the element of a user or >endpoint contains either a display name or a nickname (as I proposed >above) then this should probably be checked, or endpoints connected to >the focus could be confused about participant's identity. > > >Regards, > >-- >Sa=FAl Ibarra Corretg=E9 >AG Projects > > > >_______________________________________________ >Simple mailing list >Simple@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Jul 13 07:45:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DAA621F880D; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BIT5Uu9hzmFv; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFED21F87DC; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.30p3 Message-ID: <20120713144551.6465.51299.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:51 -0700 Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action: draft-ietf-simple-chat-15.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:45:52 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Le= veraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Multi-party Chat Using the Message Session Relay Protoco= l (MSRP) Author(s) : Aki Niemi Miguel A. Garcia-Martin Geir A. Sandbakken Filename : draft-ietf-simple-chat-15.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2012-07-13 Abstract: The Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) defines a mechanism for sending instant messages within a peer-to-peer session, negotiated using the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) and the Session Description Protocol (SDP). This document defines the necessary tools for establishing multi-party chat sessions, or chat rooms, using MSRP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-simple-chat There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-simple-chat-15 A diff from previous version is available at: http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-simple-chat-15 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From geirsand@cisco.com Fri Jul 13 07:48:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE51121F8820 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PpXUd19t99Tu for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1BE21F8817 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:47:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3915; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1342190916; x=1343400516; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=vQka1B4SwZ3iSOHQVRVUtonyNd231XjcPHB1PBjUBuU=; b=j9KEIzsAJeZ9rSE5raMFBvn3X6WAb0gSJoBCldWCRuGYORfUDRoUAnub XtEJacUN1xZ+SiBKlnHIClRBYW/W9krhzdb9NFQnLXQabgGpJysqSg2MX 4TVGCQCU9KrtOzx5X+TMdGCCXJuiJqDGJ+IRvlQwyzHNDtnAghxUUPvlK 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAMwzAFCtJV2d/2dsb2JhbABFgkq1VoEHgicSAXgBDHQnBBwZh2sLmgeBKKAskTIDlTqOIIFmgl8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.77,579,1336348800"; d="scan'208,217";a="98637358" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2012 14:48:36 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q6DEmZUH011137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:48:35 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.114]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0298.004; Fri, 13 Jul 2012 09:48:35 -0500 From: "Geir Sandbakken (geirsand)" To: Simple WG Thread-Topic: Multi-party Chat version 15 submitted Thread-Index: AQHNYQaTX2NwfLnGZka69g5OgvHGSQ== Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:48:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.2.120421 x-originating-ip: [10.61.94.181] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.1135-7.000.1014-19036.006 x-tm-as-result: No--24.877900-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CC26021F40B0geirsandciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Simple] Multi-party Chat version 15 submitted X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:48:00 -0000 --_000_CC26021F40B0geirsandciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A new version of Multi-party Chat Using the Message Session Relay Protocol = (MSRP) has been submitted adding a requirement of using the normalization o= f nicknames defined in I-D.saintandre-precis-nickname and Miguel's security= considerations addition. The new version can be found here: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-simple-chat-15.txt Changes from version =9614: 1. Changed section 7.1 adding a normative reference to nickname normalizati= on and comparison rules 2. Added a section in 7.1 for considerations around similar looking nicknam= es 3. Added a security section recommending the MSRP switch to send MSRP mess= ages notifying the non chat room aware UA's that they are connected to a ch= at room including the current rooster list. 4. Moved I-D.saintandre-precis-nickname into the Normative References secti= on --_000_CC26021F40B0geirsandciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <38B5AEDFF8F4984A80682CF0391777D1@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A new version of Multi-party Chat Us= ing the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) has been submitted adding a requirement of using the normalization = of nicknames defined in I-D.saintandre-precis-nickname and Miguel's se= curity considerations addition.

The new version can be found here:
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-simple-chat-15.txt

Changes from version =9614:
1. Changed section 7.1 adding a normative reference to n= ickname normalization and comparison rules
2. Added a section in 7.1 for considerations around simi= lar looking nicknames
3. Added a security  section recommending the MSRP = switch to send MSRP messages notifying the non chat room aware UA's that they are connected to a chat room including the = current rooster list.
4. Moved I-D.saintandre-precis-nickname into the Normative References section
--_000_CC26021F40B0geirsandciscocom_-- From ietf-ipr@ietf.org Fri Jul 20 10:27:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6951821F8552; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.41 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.41 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.189, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pjiOur6aux5D; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD9E21F853C; Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:27:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: IETF Secretariat To: hgs@cs.columbia.edu X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.30p3 Message-ID: <20120720172704.27683.20324.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:27:04 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:47:59 -0700 Cc: simple@ietf.org, hisham.khartabil@gmail.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] IPR Disclosure: Microsoft Corporation's Statement about IPR related to RFC 3994 X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:27:05 -0000 Dear Henning Schulzrinne: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your RFC entitled "Indication of Message Composition for Instant Messaging" (RFC3994) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2012-07-19 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellec= tual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1833/). The = title of the IPR disclosure is "Microsoft Corporation's Statement about IPR relat= ed to RFC 3994.""); The IETF Secretariat