Subject: [Simple] INVITE or BYE Clarification

From: "Ngo, Dai (c)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:59:20 +0000

Hi All,

In section 3, "Overview of Operation" of the
draft-ietf-simple-presence-01.txt it states, 
"The SUBSCRIBE message effectively establishes a session with the
   presence agent. As a result, the SUBSCRIBE can be record-routed, and
   rules for tag handling and Contact processing mirror those for
   INVITE. "

However, in section 5, "Node Behavior" of draft-ietf-sip-events-00.txt it
states,
"Unless noted otherwise, SUBSCRIBE and NOTIFY requests follow the
     same protocol rules governing the usage of tags, Route,
     Record-Route, Via handling, retransmission, reliability, CSeq
     handling, Contact handling, provisional responses, and message
     formatting as those defined in RFC 2543 [1] for BYE."

Please note the difference of INVITE in the first draft versus BYE in the
second draft.

Which one is correct? Please clarify.
Thanks.

-- Dai Ngo

---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:12:25 -0400

-----Original Message-----
From: Ngo, Dai (c) [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:59 AM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [Simple] INVITE or BYE Clarification

states, 
second draft. 
>Which one is correct? Please clarify. 

I believe the behavior should mirror INVITE. I believe I pointed this out to
Adam but don't recall whether he concurred. This obviously needs to be
resolved asap. Adam?

-Jonathan R.
---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
[email-masked]                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                      PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:33:41 -0400

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:43 PM
> To: [email-masked]; Jonathan Rosenberg
> Subject: RE: [Simple] INVITE or BYE Clarification
> 
> 
> 
> > I believe the behavior should mirror INVITE.
> 
> Would not it be logical that if SUBSCRIBE establishes a 
> session then NOTIFY
> should be regarded as media and have the same limits tried to 
> be imposed on
> MESSAGE?

That concept has come up. But, I think that presence data is much more
arguably "signaling" than IM is. Its generally small in size (although
potentially frequent in its generation), but machine interpretable and
therefore reasonably operated on by signaling entities as well. 

Note that, in genearl, the model with SIP is that proxies assist in setting
up the call, and then step out of the way for subsequent communication, both
signaling and media, to go direct if possible. Thus, I would expect that
proxies wouldn't record-route subscribe unless they really needed to (i.e.,
nat, firewall). 

-Jonathan R.
---

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:43:12 +0300

> I believe the behavior should mirror INVITE.

Would not it be logical that if SUBSCRIBE establishes a session then NOTIFY
should be regarded as media and have the same limits tried to be imposed on
MESSAGE?

I just want to try to point to what extermes things can go.

avshalom
Sametime/Lotus/IBM

                    Jonathan Rosenberg                                                                                          
                    <[email-masked]>         To:     "'Ngo, Dai (c)'" <[email-masked]>,                            
                    Sent by:                          "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>       
                    [email-masked]        cc:     "Adam Roach (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked]'" 
                    icsoft.com                        <[email-masked]>                                                            
                                                      Subject:     RE: [Simple] INVITE or BYE Clarification                     
                                                                                                                                
                    30/08/2001 18:12                                                                                            

-----Original Message-----
From: Ngo, Dai (c) [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:59 AM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [Simple] INVITE or BYE Clarification

states,
second draft.
>Which one is correct? Please clarify.

I believe the behavior should mirror INVITE. I believe I pointed this out
to
Adam but don't recall whether he concurred. This obviously needs to be
resolved asap. Adam?

-Jonathan R.
---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
[email-masked]                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                      PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
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