Subject: [Simple] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:21:30 +0200

Hi,

The following draft is now available in the I-D directories. It is an initial attempt to specify a list management protocol on an abstract level (only semantics, no syntax). The proposal is made based on the requirements stated in "draft-ietf-simple-data-req-00". The draft is still quite drafty, but the main points should be visible. 

The main idea is that many applications (for instance presence and conferencing) require lists that should be configurable by a client terminal. It would be useful to define a standard protocol to handle list manipulation (for SIP-applications), so that it could be "plugged in" to any application needing it.

I hope comments to the approach and to the actual abstract protocol. If this is a good enough start, it could be used as a basis for a WG document. After that would be reasonably stable, a mapping to some real syntax could be made and that specifation should be in standards track.

Markus  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: 04 November, 2002 17:05
> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt
> 
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line 
> Internet-Drafts directories.
> 
> 
> 	Title		: Semantic Description of SIMPLE List 
> Manipulation 
>                           Operations
> 	Author(s)	: M. Isomaki et al.
> 	Filename	: draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt
> 	Pages		: 13
> 	Date		: 2002-11-1
> 	
> In SIMPLE based presence and messaging applications, it is necessary 
> for  the user to be able to configure a number of pieces of 
> information. 
> One of the most common types of information is a list of URIs. List 
> management is useful outside the scope of SIMPLE as well, for 
> instance 
> in conferencing. There are many reasons why it would be beneficial to 
> manage the lists in a similar fashion regardless of the application. 
> Before the selection of the actual protocol(s) to manage the 
> lists there 
> is a need to describe their semantics on an abstract level. This 
> document proposes the semantics for SIMPLE list manipulation protocol.
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-isomaki-simple-list-
man-sem-00.txt

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---

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:19:48 -0500

This draft is a good start.

I would very much like to do this as generally as possible. Clearly, 
there are a number of different ways to design a protocol to meet the 
requirements in the data-req draft. They range from the totally specific 
to totally general:

* PROTOCOL OPTION 1: We design a protocol that JUST does whats in the 
requirements doc, nothig more, nothing less. Its simple, but it only 
works for buddy lists and authorization policy. It won't work for 
conference policy, for example.

* PROTOCOL OPTION 2: Markus' draft. Generalize option 1 a bit. Focus on 
lists of things, and define a general protocol for creating, modifying 
and managing lists. Works for buddy lists and conferencing too, so long 
as all they do is manage lists.

* PROTOCOL OPTION 3: Generalize Markus' draft further. Assume that 
anything we want to manipulate can be represented in XML. Conference 
policies might be modelled as really complex XML documents. Media 
policies too. A buddy list is an XML document. And so on. The protocol, 
then, is a general tool for remote editing of XML documents. Using 
things like XPath, you can address a particular node, add elements, 
modify them, etc. The underlying application (conferencing, buddy list) 
validates the changes against its schemas, and assignes semantics to the 
documents.

There are probably more sub-options between 2 and 3. For example, we cna 
introduce restrictions on the types of XML documents we can manipulate, 
the types of changes we can make, and so on.

Where do draw the line?

Clearly, we want something simple so that we can be done soon. Simple is 
always good.

However, I would also like a single protocol that can meet the 
requirements here, AND the requirements for conference policy control 
and media policy control that are evolving in SIPPING. Conference policy 
is complex enough that a simple list won't suffice. So, I think we need 
a bit more that what Markus has defined.

Thoughts?

-Jonathan R.

[email-masked] wrote:
 > Hi,
 >
 > The following draft is now available in the I-D directories. It is an
 > initial attempt to specify a list management protocol on an abstract
 > level (only semantics, no syntax). The proposal is made based on the
 > requirements stated in "draft-ietf-simple-data-req-00". The draft is
 > still quite drafty, but the main points should be visible.
 >
 > The main idea is that many applications (for instance presence and
 > conferencing) require lists that should be configurable by a client
 > terminal. It would be useful to define a standard protocol to handle
 > list manipulation (for SIP-applications), so that it could be
 > "plugged in" to any application needing it.
 >
 > I hope comments to the approach and to the actual abstract protocol.
 > If this is a good enough start, it could be used as a basis for a WG
 > document. After that would be reasonably stable, a mapping to some
 > real syntax could be made and that specifation should be in standards
 > track.
 >
 > Markus
 >
 >
 >> -----Original Message----- From: ext [email-masked]
 >> [mailto:[email-masked]] Sent: 04 November, 2002 17:05
 >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
 >> directories.
 >>
 >>
 >> Title		: Semantic Description of SIMPLE List Manipulation
 >> Operations Author(s)	: M. Isomaki et al. Filename	:
 >> draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt Pages		: 13 Date		:
 >> 2002-11-1  In SIMPLE based presence and messaging applications, it
 >> is necessary for  the user to be able to configure a number of
 >> pieces of information. One of the most common types of information
 >> is a list of URIs. List management is useful outside the scope of
 >> SIMPLE as well, for instance in conferencing. There are many
 >> reasons why it would be beneficial to manage the lists in a similar
 >> fashion regardless of the application. Before the selection of the
 >> actual protocol(s) to manage the lists there is a need to describe
 >> their semantics on an abstract level. This document proposes the
 >> semantics for SIMPLE list manipulation protocol.
 >>
 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
 > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
 > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get
 > draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt".
 >
 > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
 > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
 >
 >
 > Send a message to: [email-masked]. In the body type: "FILE
 > /internet-drafts/draft-isomaki-simple-list-man-sem-00.txt".  NOTE:
 > The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded
 > form by using the "mpack" utility.  To use this feature, insert the
 > command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command.  To decode the
 > response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader.
 > Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior,
 > especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e.
 > documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check
 > your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages.   Below
 > is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
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[email-masked]                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.jdrosen.net                      PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com