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Hi all,

Minutes have been uploaded: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/minutes/min=
utes-98-spring-00

Many thanks to Jonathan Hardwick.

Please review and comment. (Errors are mine)

Thanks
--Bruno, Martin


___________________________________________________________________________=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Minutes have been uploaded: </s=
pan><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/minutes/minutes-98-sprin=
g-00"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/98/minutes/minu=
tes-98-spring-00</span></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Many thanks to Jonathan Hardwic=
k.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review and comment. (Err=
ors are mine)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">--Bruno, Martin<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
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Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 22:08:21 +0530
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Subject: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder
how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.

Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up
to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in
service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?

Regards,
Muthu

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><div class=3D"gmail_default">=
<font face=3D"monospace, monospace">draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to desc=
ribe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that is configurable=
 on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually support changin=
g the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font f=
ace=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=
<font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Suppose a node is capable of pushing a =
maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-T=
E tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means the node will not=
 be able to push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-c=
onfiguration like would result in service failure, is there a real motivati=
on for changing MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capability instead, lik=
e the &#39;readable-label-stack-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</font=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><br=
></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospa=
ce">Regards,</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospa=
ce, monospace">Muthu</font></div><div><br></div></div></div>

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Hi Muthu,

=20

Thanks for your comments!

MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabil=
ities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying HW for th=
e MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.=20

=20

That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS=
 type could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, th=
at describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to prov=
ide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW =
are coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor=
 and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-po=
pulate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to di=
scuss with more HW vendors.

=20

Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, depending =
on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 generation=
s of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a r=
ather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different li=
ne cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported by t=
he node.

=20

Hope this helps,

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
To: <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a re=
ad-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how=
 many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.=20

=20

Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the n=
ode MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up t=
o K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so canno=
t do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in servi=
ce failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MS=
D be a node capability instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' define=
d in the yang draft?

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

_______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@=
ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=20


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<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schema=
s-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/20=
04/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta name=3DTitle c=
ontent=3D""><meta name=3DKeywords content=3D""><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type conte=
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--></style></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954=
F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:Calibri'>Hi Muthu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Thanks=
 for your comments!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>MSD is a configurable attribute, it is no=
t derived directly from HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an=
 API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there&#8217;s also depend=
ency on SW support. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>That&#8217;s why w=
e have introduced &#8220;Type&#8221; field, so more than a single MDS type c=
ould be signaled, as of now, we have only defined &#8220;Base&#8221; Type, t=
hat describes total number of SID&#8217;s supported. I&#8217;d expect vendor=
s to provide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when H=
W and SW are coming from different vendors, I&#8217;d expect HW to be the li=
miting factor and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supporte=
d and auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoo=
t, plan to discuss with more HW vendors.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'>Per node vs per LC capability &#8211; even on a same generation NPU, depen=
ding on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 gener=
ations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface i=
s a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over differe=
nt line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported=
 by the node.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Hope this helps,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padd=
ing:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span =
style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:Calibri;color:black'>spring &lt;spring-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf =
of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;muthu.arul@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wed=
nesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br><b>To: </b>&lt;spring@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>S=
ubject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"monospace","serif"'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to =
describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that is configura=
ble on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually support chang=
ing the MSD on a node.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"monospace","serif"'>S=
uppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the nod=
e MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to =
K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so cannot =
do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in service=
 failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MSD =
be a node capability instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined =
in the yang draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"monospace","serif"'>Regards,</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"monospace","serif"'>Muthu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div=
></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>___________________=
____________________________ spring mailing list spring@ietf.org https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>

--B_3574230994_1475050637--



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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 23:32:36 +0530
Message-ID: <CAKz0y8zG2T5LEiwdVHvwz7nuP71t296eTMZLMD-dZs3ff89sXw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: spring@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response. Comments inline..

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>

Since MSD is not derived from h/w capabilities, did you actually mean that
no vendor provides an API to query the underlying h/w label imposition
limit? MSD being a s/w attribute, I believe it can take any value from 1 to
the label imposition limit supported by the h/w?=E2=80=8B


>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported.
>

=E2=80=8BOk, do we expect MSD types to be tied to the application/service, =
say one
MSD to be used for L3VPN service on a node, one for L2VPN etc?=E2=80=8B


> I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, i=
n
> disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from different vendors, I=
=E2=80=99d
> expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW vendors to provide an API to
> query for the MSD supported and auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have
> reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>

=E2=80=8BAgain, guess you meant the label imposition limit of the h/w here?


>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>

=E2=80=8BAgree, this becomes really tricky with a router supporting differe=
nt NPU
types/generations, so node MSD is one thing a PCE can rely on for sure..

Regards,
Muthu


>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--001a113d484292bcda054c6f325f
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Jeff,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">Thanks for your response. Comments inline..</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 =
at 10:26 PM, Jeff Tantsura <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant=
.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-U=
S" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_9131781005705728423Wo=
rdSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri">Hi Muthu,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cali=
bri">Thanks for your comments!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">MSD is a configurab=
le attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabilities, in fact no v=
endor today provides an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, t=
here=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.</span></p></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Since MSD is not derived from =
h/w capabilities, did you actually mean that no vendor provides an API to q=
uery the underlying h/w label imposition limit? MSD being a s/w attribute, =
I believe it can take any value from 1 to the label imposition limit suppor=
ted by the h/w?=E2=80=8B</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#9=
54F72"><div class=3D"m_9131781005705728423WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> <u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">That=E2=80=99s why we have introd=
uced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS type could be =
signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that=
 describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. </span></p></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BOk, do we expe=
ct MSD types to be tied to the application/service, say one MSD to be used =
for L3VPN service on a node, one for L2VPN etc?=E2=80=8B</div></div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"E=
N-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_913178100570572842=
3WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri">I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidance wrt MS=
D semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from differen=
t vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW vendors t=
o provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-populate the value=
 in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss with more=
 HW vendors.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">=E2=80=8BAgain, guess you meant the label imposition limit of t=
he h/w here?</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><di=
v bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div =
class=3D"m_9131781005705728423WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on=
 a same generation NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary dra=
stically, routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception eit=
her, so MSD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if =
a tunnel could exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computat=
ion to the lowest value supported by the node.</span></p></div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BAgree, this becomes =
really tricky with a router supporting different NPU types/generations, so =
node MSD is one thing a PCE can rely on for sure..</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small">Regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" sty=
le=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Muthu</div></=
div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3D"m_913178100=
5705728423WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:C=
alibri">Hope this helps,<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
black">Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #=
b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mar=
gin-left:.5in"><b><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </s=
pan></b><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri;color:black">spring &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muth=
u.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date=
: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br><b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: =
</b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u><u></u></span></=
p></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-=
left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;monospace&q=
uot;,&quot;serif&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum=
 SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that is configurable on the node=
, but I really wonder how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on=
 a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;monospa=
ce&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum =
of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel=
 on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able=
 to push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configura=
tion like would result in service failure, is there a real motivation for c=
hanging MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the &#=
39;readable-label-stack-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u>=
</u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left=
:.5in"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;monospace&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=
Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;monospace&quot;,&quot;s=
erif&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div=
></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">__________________=
____________<wbr>_________________ spring mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:sp=
ring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 23:42:32 +0530
Message-ID: <CAKz0y8zSR-6bUU9fS=vkBn1_k9ztWz4oUeOOa-K0+9Yn4U0fuQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>,  Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>,  Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>,  Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/P7_Sz-aP8XCGEnYY1r8U4ps7fuQ>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Hi Saha,

Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Jeff, Muthu and all,
>
> I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW=
.
>
> Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data
> paths thru it.
>
> And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieve=
d
> at the expense of some other parameters.
>

=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:

=E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are t=
o
    be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that

=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label impo=
sition
limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a
SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be
set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the
expense of something else?

Regards,
Muthu=E2=80=8B


> This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.
>
> Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD
> value would be supported.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Tantsura
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
> *To:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect ven=
dors to provide
> clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW a=
re
> coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting f=
actor and
> HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and
> auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot,
> plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>
>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>

--001a113cbdd816b8c3054c6f5669
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Saha,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..</div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at=
 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ale=
xander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecite=
le.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">





<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-2520061608637186893WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Jeff, Muthu and all,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defi=
ned just by HW but also by SW.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Same HW may yield different MSD values with =
SW defining different data paths thru it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">And it may well be a matter of tradeoff wher=
e higher MSD could be achieved at the expense of some other parameters.</sp=
an></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=
=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B =C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are=
 additional labels (e.g. service) that are to</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be push=
ed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that</div><br></div><di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN a=
nd the h/w label imposition limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to=
 support up to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a=
 &#39;P&#39; router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean b=
y trading off higher MSD at the expense of something else?</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Muth=
u=E2=80=8B</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-=
2520061608637186893WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">This is exactly why MSD should be treated as=
 a configurable attribute.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Of course this does not preclude implementat=
ions when exactly one MSD value would be supported.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" va=
lue=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=
=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-=
549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<=
wbr>com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spri=
ng@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Thanks for your comments!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from =
HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlyin=
g HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s
 also dependency on SW support. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D fiel=
d, so more than a single MDS type could be signaled, as of now, we have onl=
y defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that describes total number of SID=
=E2=80=99s
 supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidance wrt MSD se=
mantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from different ve=
ndors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW vendors to pr=
ovide an API to query for the MSD supported and
 auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, p=
lan to discuss with more HW vendors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation=
 NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers =
with 3 generations of line cards are not
 an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a rather valuable informa=
tion to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different line cards. Per node MS=
D limits computation to the lowest value supported by the node.</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hope this helps,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Jeff</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><b><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">sprin=
g &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-b=
ounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;courier new&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maxi=
mum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that is configurable on the n=
ode, but I really wonder how many vendors actually
 support changing the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;courier new&quot;">Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum o=
f K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel =
on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means
 the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. G=
iven that a miss-configuration like would result in service failure, is the=
re a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capab=
ility instead, like the &#39;readable-label-stack-depth&#39;
 defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;courier new&quot;">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:&quot;courier new&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">_________________________=
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
CC: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, "Michael Gorokhovsky" <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 00:23:33 +0530
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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>,  Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>,  Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>,  Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Hi Saha,

Please see inline..

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Muthu hi,
>
> Two points:
>
> 1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is
> different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol
> must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (includi=
ng
> L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow lab=
els)
>
=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the=
 h/w,
right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?

My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part
and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into =
the LSP
part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS
depending on what MPLS services the node provides..

Regards,
Muthu

> and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE
>
> 2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other
> parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be
> pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegr=
ess
> encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in the forwarding HW, one option would be=
 to use
> one such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while anoth=
er
> option would be to use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would
> increase the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that th=
e
> device can support.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff, Muthu and all,
>
> I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW=
.
>
> Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data
> paths thru it.
>
> And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieve=
d
> at the expense of some other parameters.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are=
 to
>
>     be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label im=
position
> limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a
> SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be
> set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the
> expense of something else?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.
>
> Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD
> value would be supported.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Tantsura
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
> *To:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect ven=
dors to provide
> clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW a=
re
> coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting f=
actor and
> HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and
> auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot,
> plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>
>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
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--001a113d4842c136f8054c6fe8f6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Saha,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small">Please see inline..</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander V=
ainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecit=
ele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_4034297792877367856WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Muthu hi,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Two points:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_4034297792877367856MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><s=
pan>1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">My read=
ing of the text in the draft to which you refer is different: from my POV i=
t means that the MSD advertised in the protocol
 must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (includin=
g L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow lab=
els) </span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BT=
hat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the h/w, righ=
t? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?=C2=A0=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">My interpretation was=
 that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part and the LSP part. =E2=
=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP part. Now, MS=
D can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on=
 what MPLS services the node provides..</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small">Regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-=
family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Muthu</div></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">=
<div class=3D"m_4034297792877367856WordSection1"><p class=3D"m_403429779287=
7367856MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">and not just the labels that repres=
ent the list of SIDs for SR-TE<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"m_4034297792877367856MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><s=
pan>2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">When I =
mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other parameters, I had in min=
d something else. E.g., if the label stack
 to be pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the =C2=A0=
=E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in the forwarding HW, one o=
ption would be to use one such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) =
per LSP, while another option would be to use a linked
 list of such entries per LSP. This would increase the MSD at the expense o=
f the number of LSP out segments that the device can support.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Hope this helps.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6=
302" value=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <=
a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank"=
>+972-549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:=
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ec=
itele.<wbr>com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com=
</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@eci=
tele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;; R=
on Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.C=
ohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span><=
/p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi Saha,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Jeff, Muthu and all,</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is n=
ot defined just by HW but also by SW.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Same HW may yield different MSD value=
s with SW defining different data paths thru it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">And it may well be a matter of tradeo=
ff where higher MSD could be achieved at the expense of some other
 parameters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd has the foll:<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8B =C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are additional labels (e.g. serv=
ice) that are to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to refle=
ct that<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label=
 imposition limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4=
 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just
 a &#39;P&#39; router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean=
 by trading off higher MSD at the expense of something else?<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Muthu=E2=80=8B<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">This is exactly why MSD should be tre=
ated as a configurable attribute.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Of course this does not preclude impl=
ementations when exactly one MSD value would be supported.</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org<=
/a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks for your comments!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived =
directly from HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides
 an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also =
dependency on SW support.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=
=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS type could be signaled, as of no=
w, we have
 only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that describes total number of S=
ID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidanc=
e wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from =
different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW
 vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-populate=
 the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss=
 with more HW vendors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a s=
ame generation NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastic=
ally,
 routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so M=
SD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel =
could exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to th=
e lowest value supported by the
 node.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hope this helps,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jeff</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">F=
rom: </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:black">spring &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
 Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muth=
u.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-ya=
ng seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that=
 is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually=
 support changing the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Suppose a node is capab=
le of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured a=
s K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means t=
he node will not be able to push a VPN label,
 so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would resul=
t in service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node=
? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the &#39;readable-label-sta=
ck-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Regards,</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
______________________________<wbr>_________________ spring mailing list <a=
 href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=
" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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<br>
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br clear=3D"both">
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
CC: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, "Michael Gorokhovsky" <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 15:37:52 +0530
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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>,  Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>,  Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>,  Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Hi Sasha,

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Muthu,
>
> Two clarifications:
>
> 1.       The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends o=
n the service.
> Flow-aware PWs (RFC 6391 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391>), entropy
> labels for IP VPN (RFC 6790 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790>) and,
> possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (RFC 7708
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708>) give you some examples. To the
> best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label
> stack depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-specific at all.
>
=E2=80=8BIsn't it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in =
the MPLS
LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth  OBJECT-TYPE
   SYNTAX        Unsigned32 (1..2147483647)
   MAX-ACCESS    read-only
   STATUS        current
   DESCRIPTION
       "The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR."
::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }

This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write.
Anyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instead
of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also
clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts to
avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.

> 2.       I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may
> support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In
> the example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=
 database=E2=80=9D entry
> can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entr=
ies are available in the
> forwarding HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to
> support =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9DLSP  out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD=
 to (2*N) and
> expect forwarding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.
>
=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are say=
ing that
a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LSP out
segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this way. My
understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossible label
stack depth on a packet.

=E2=80=8BRegards,
Muthu=E2=80=8B

>
>
> Hope this clarifies my position.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302Muthu,
>
>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Please see inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu hi,
>
> Two points:
>
> 1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is
> different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol
> must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (includi=
ng
> L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow lab=
els)
>
> =E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by t=
he h/w,
> right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?
>
>
>
> My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service par=
t
> and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go int=
o the LSP
> part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-=
LS
> depending on what MPLS services the node provides..
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
> and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE
>
> 2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other
> parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be
> pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegr=
ess
> encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in the forwarding HW, one option would be=
 to use
> one such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while anoth=
er
> option would be to use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would
> increase the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that th=
e
> device can support.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff, Muthu and all,
>
> I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW=
.
>
> Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data
> paths thru it.
>
> And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieve=
d
> at the expense of some other parameters.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are=
 to
>
>     be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label im=
position
> limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a
> SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be
> set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the
> expense of something else?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.
>
> Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD
> value would be supported.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Tantsura
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
> *To:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect ven=
dors to provide
> clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW a=
re
> coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting f=
actor and
> HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and
> auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot,
> plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>
>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
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> _______________
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
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--001a113b0850a47323054c7cae8c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi=C2=A0Sasha,</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alex=
ander Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshte=
in@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<=
/span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Muthu,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Two clarifications:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><s=
pan>1.<span style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-v=
ariant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;lin=
e-height:normal;font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">The number of =
=E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends on the service. Flow-aware=
 PWs (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391" target=3D"_blank">RFC
 6391</a>), entropy labels for IP VPN (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6790</a>) and, possibly, using GAL as a V=
CCV Indicator (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708" target=3D"_b=
lank">RFC 7708</a>) give you some examples. To the best of my understanding=
,
 the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label stack depth that includes a=
ll labels, it is not SR-specific at all.</span></p></div></div></blockquote=
><div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8BIsn&#39;t it the same as the mplsMaxLabel=
StackDepth object defined in the MPLS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?=
=C2=A0</div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStac=
kDepth =C2=A0OBJECT-TYPE</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0Unsigned32 (1..2147483647)</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MAX-ACCESS =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0read-only</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0STATUS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0current=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0DESCRIPTION</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quo=
t;The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR.&quot;</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">::=3D { mpls=
LsrObjects 11 }</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This is a read-only object, so I am wo=
ndering why MSD is read-write. Anyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Lab=
el Stack Depth (MLSD), instead of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specifi=
c at all. We should also clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-ms=
d and other MSD drafts to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmai=
l-m_-1284547066174082180WordSection1"><p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082=
180MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans=
-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><s=
pan>2.<span style=3D"font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-v=
ariant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;lin=
e-height:normal;font-family:&quot;times new roman&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I believe that=
 I have already explained how the same HW may support different MSD values =
depending on usage of some HW resources.
 In the example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulati=
on database=E2=80=9D entry can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=
=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entries are available in the forwarding HW memory, th=
e user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9DL=
SP =C2=A0out-segments, or he/she may
 configure MSD to (2*N) and expect forwarding HW to support only (M/2) LSP =
out-segments.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are say=
ing that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of =
LSP out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this=
 way. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossible=
 label stack depth on a packet.</div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">=E2=80=8B=
Regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Muthu=E2=80=8B</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-1284=
547066174082180WordSection1"><p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180MsoLis=
tParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;co=
lor:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Hope this clarifies my position.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"></span></p><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;display:inline"=
>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</div>Sasha<u></u><u></u><p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office: +972-39266302Muthu,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=
=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-=
549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<=
wbr>com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM</span></p><div><div class=3D=
"gmail-h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com=
</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@eci=
tele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;; R=
on Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.C=
ohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Saha=
,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Please =
see inline..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Muthu hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Two points:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagrap=
h"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(6=
8,84,106)">1.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is di=
fferent: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol must =
take into account all labels that can
 be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D=
 labels, entropy labels/flow labels)
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the h/w, =
right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">My inte=
rpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part and the=
 LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP=
 part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w
 and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on what MPLS services the node=
 provides..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Regards=
,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Muthu<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagrap=
h"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(6=
8,84,106)">and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-T=
E</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagrap=
h"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(6=
8,84,106)">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other pa=
rameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be push=
ed on the packet is stored in a fixed
 size entry in the =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in=
 the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one such entry (with the res=
ulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another option would be to use a li=
nked list of such entries per LSP. This would increase
 the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device c=
an support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,8=
4,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Hope this helps.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Saha=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks =
for your inputs. Comments inline..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Jeff, Muthu and all,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defi=
ned just by HW but also by SW.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Same HW may yield different MSD values with =
SW defining different data paths thru it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">And it may well be a matter of tradeoff wher=
e higher MSD could be achieved at the expense of some other
 parameters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd has the foll:</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8B =C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that a=
re to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label imposition=
 limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up
 to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a &#39;P&#39=
; router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading o=
ff higher MSD at the expense of something else?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Regards=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Muthu=
=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">This is exactly why MSD should be treated as=
 a configurable attribute.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Of course this does not preclude implementat=
ions when exactly one MSD value would be supported.</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Thanks for your comments!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from =
HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides
 an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also =
dependency on SW support.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D fiel=
d, so more than a single MDS type could be signaled, as of now, we have
 only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that describes total number of S=
ID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidanc=
e wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from =
different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW
 vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-populate=
 the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss=
 with more HW vendors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation=
 NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically,
 routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so M=
SD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel =
could exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to th=
e lowest value supported by the
 node.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hope this helps,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Jeff</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From: </span>=
</b><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">spring &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@=
ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
 Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muth=
u.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-ya=
ng seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that=
 is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually=
 support changing the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Suppose a node is capab=
le of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured a=
s K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means t=
he node will not be able to push a VPN label,
 so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would resul=
t in service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node=
? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the &#39;readable-label-sta=
ck-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Regards,</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
______________________________<wbr>_________________ spring mailing list <a=
 href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=
" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
__________<br>
<br>
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is
<br>
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this
<br>
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original
<br>
and all copies thereof.<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
__________<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
__________<br>
<br>
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is
<br>
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this
<br>
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original
<br>
and all copies thereof.<br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
__________<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">
<br clear=3D"both">
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
__________<br>
<br>
This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is <br>
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this <br>
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
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and all copies thereof.<br>
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__________<br>
</div></div></div>


</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a113b0850a47323054c7cae8c--


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Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 07:48:27 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Hi Muthu,

=20

Please see inline

=20

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 11:02
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Jeff,

=20

Thanks for your response. Comments inline..

=20

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wr=
ote:

Hi Muthu,

=20

Thanks for your comments!

MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabil=
ities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying HW for th=
e MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.

=20

Since MSD is not derived from h/w capabilities, did you actually mean that =
no vendor provides an API to query the underlying h/w label imposition limit=
? MSD being a s/w attribute, I believe it can take any value from 1 to the l=
abel imposition limit supported by the h/w?=E2=80=8B

=20

[jeff] No HW vendor, obviously if your device and SW it runs are vertically=
 integrated (ie cisco/juniper router), there=E2=80=99s no difference, the MSD they=
 should provide is the system/line card MSD as supported by the system

=20

=20

That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS=
 type could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, th=
at describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported.=20

=20

=E2=80=8BOk, do we expect MSD types to be tied to the application/service, say on=
e MSD to be used for L3VPN service on a node, one for L2VPN etc?=E2=80=8B

=20

[jeff] I don=E2=80=99t really see a use case here, however if there=E2=80=99s one, it i=
s easy to realize with a new =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D=20

=20

I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disagg=
regated case, when HW and SW are coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect=
 HW to be the limiting factor and HW vendors to provide an API to query for =
the MSD supported and auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to=
 BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss with more HW vendors.

=20

=E2=80=8BAgain, guess you meant the label imposition limit of the h/w here?

[jeff] as explained above, it depends, in a vertically integrated system it=
 would be a system capability, if it is HW only (i.e.white box), it would be=
 HW capability. The end result would be the same though, the path, as comput=
ed by a PCE must not have MSD larger than communicated =20

=20

Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, depending =
on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 generation=
s of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a r=
ather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different li=
ne cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported by t=
he node.

=20

=E2=80=8BAgree, this becomes really tricky with a router supporting different NPU=
 types/generations, so node MSD is one thing a PCE can rely on for sure..

=20

[jeff] Link MSD is optional and provides additional information, in absence=
 of Link MSD, Node MSD (that represents the lowest MSD supported by a system=
) should be used

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

=20

Hope this helps,

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
To: <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a re=
ad-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how=
 many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.=20

=20

Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the n=
ode MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up t=
o K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so canno=
t do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in servi=
ce failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MS=
D be a node capability instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' define=
d in the yang draft?

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

_______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@=
ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=20

=20


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--></style></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><di=
v class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri'>Hi Muthu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Please see inl=
ine<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calib=
ri;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;b=
order-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Fr=
om: </span></b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Muthu Arul Mozh=
i Perumal &lt;muthu.arul@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2=
017 at 11:02<br><b>To: </b>Jeff Tantsura &lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;<br>=
<b>Cc: </b>&lt;spring@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [spring] Is MSD re=
ally a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Hi Jeff,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'=
><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Than=
ks for your response. Comments inline..<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Jeff Tant=
sura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.i=
etf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;ma=
rgin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri'>Hi Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Thanks fo=
r your comments!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not d=
erived directly from HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an AP=
I to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there&#8217;s also dependenc=
y on SW support.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Sin=
ce MSD is not derived from h/w capabilities, did you actually mean that no v=
endor provides an API to query the underlying h/w label imposition limit? MS=
D being a s/w attribute, I believe it can take any value from 1 to the label=
 imposition limit supported by the h/w?=E2=80=8B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:Arial'>[jeff] No HW vendor, obviously if your device and SW it runs=
 are vertically integrated (ie cisco/juniper router), there&#8217;s no diffe=
rence, the MSD they should provide is the system/line card MSD as supported =
by the system<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:non=
e;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8p=
t;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>That&#8217;s why we have intro=
duced &#8220;Type&#8221; field, so more than a single MDS type could be sign=
aled, as of now, we have only defined &#8220;Base&#8221; Type, that describe=
s total number of SID&#8217;s supported. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BOk, do we expect MSD types to be tied to the applic=
ation/service, say one MSD to be used for L3VPN service on a node, one for L=
2VPN etc?=E2=80=8B<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in=
'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>[jeff] I don&#=
8217;t really see a use case here, however if there&#8217;s one, it is easy =
to realize with a new &#8220;Type&#8221; <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><=
blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>I&#8217;d expect vendors=
 to provide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW=
 and SW are coming from different vendors, I&#8217;d expect HW to be the lim=
iting factor and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported=
 and auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot=
, plan to discuss with more HW vendors.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></b=
lockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D=
'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BAgain, guess you meant the label imposition limit of =
the h/w here?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5i=
n'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>[jeff] as explained above, it depends, in=
 a vertically integrated system it would be a system capability, if it is HW=
 only (i.e.white box), it would be HW capability. The end result would be th=
e same though, the path, as computed by a PCE must not have MSD larger than =
communicated </span>&nbsp;<span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0=
pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;=
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-m=
argin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri'>Per node vs per LC capability &#8211; even on a same generati=
on NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers=
 with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per ad=
j/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit=
 over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest va=
lue supported by the node.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:=
Arial'>=E2=80=8BAgree, this becomes really tricky with a router supporting differe=
nt NPU types/generations, so node MSD is one thing a PCE can rely on for sur=
e..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>[jeff] Link MSD is opti=
onal and provides additional information, in absence of Link MSD, Node MSD (=
that represents the lowest MSD supported by a system) should be used<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockqu=
ote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6=
.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Hope this=
 helps,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Ch=
eers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-lef=
t:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cali=
bri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B=
5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-=
top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:Calibri;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-family:Ca=
libri;color:black'>spring &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Per=
umal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br><b>To: =
</b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-=
top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:Courie=
r'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a =
read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder h=
ow many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.&nbsp;</span><o:=
p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso=
-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;=
margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:Courier'>Suppose a node is capab=
le of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured as=
 K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means the=
 node will not be able to push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given =
that a miss-configuration like would result in service failure, is there a r=
eal motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capability i=
nstead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:Courier'>Regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:Courier=
'>Muthu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-=
alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>_____________________=
__________________________ spring mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spr=
ing</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>

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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 07:59:10 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Message-ID: <9E03AA23-2FB2-4B30-970D-AF6905CB5423@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Muthu,

=20

Sasha is right, this list is not a right place to discuss HW details, which=
 is usually under NDA anyway.

=20

Having worked with many different NPU=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 there are ways to program NPU=
=E2=80=99s differently, depending on scale/ throughput and ability to look below S=
DK, don=E2=80=99t forget about recirculation too. In a chassis packet processing i=
s divided between ingress and egress NPU=E2=80=99s, which makes end result very im=
plementation dependent.=20

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 03:07
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf=
.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael=
.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohe=
n <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Sasha,

=20

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu,

Two clarifications:

1.       The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends on the service.=
 Flow-aware PWs (RFC 6391), entropy labels for IP VPN (RFC 6790) and, possib=
ly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (RFC 7708) give you some examples. To the =
best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label sta=
ck depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-specific at all.

=E2=80=8BIsn't it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in the MP=
LS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?=20

=20

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth  OBJECT-TYPE

   SYNTAX        Unsigned32 (1..2147483647)

   MAX-ACCESS    read-only

   STATUS        current

   DESCRIPTION

       "The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR."

::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }

=20

This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write. Anyway=
, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instead of MSD,=
to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also clarify this i=
n draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts to avoid misinter=
pretation, IMHO.

2.       I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may suppor=
t different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In the examp=
le I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation database=E2=80=9D entry can c=
ontain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entries are available in the forward=
ing HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support =E2=80=9CM=
=E2=80=9DLSP  out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and expect forwar=
ding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.

=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are saying th=
at a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LSP out=
 segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this way. My=
 understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossible label st=
ack depth on a packet.

=20

=E2=80=8BRegards,

Muthu=E2=80=8B

=20

Hope this clarifies my position.=20

=20

Regards,

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302Muthu,

=20

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM


To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Saha,

=20

Please see inline..

=20

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu hi,

Two points:

1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is differen=
t: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol must take in=
to account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN or PW =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow labels)=20

=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the h/w, =
right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?=20

=20

My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part =
and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP=
 part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS=
 depending on what MPLS services the node provides..

=20

Regards,

Muthu

and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE

2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other paramete=
rs, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be pushed on t=
he packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D=
 database in the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one such entry (w=
ith the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another option would be t=
o use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would increase the MSD at =
the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device can support.

=20

=20

Hope this helps.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>


Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Saha,

=20

Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..

=20

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com> wrote:

Jeff, Muthu and all,

I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW.=20

Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data path=
s thru it.

And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieved =
at the expense of some other parameters.

=20

=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:

=20

=E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are to

    be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that

=20

=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label imposition=
 limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a S=
R-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be set=
 as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the expens=
e of something else?

=20

Regards,

Muthu=E2=80=8B

=20

This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.=20

Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD value=
 would be supported.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Muthu,

=20

Thanks for your comments!

MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabil=
ities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying HW for th=
e MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.=20

=20

That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS=
 type could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, th=
at describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to prov=
ide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW =
are coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor=
 and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-po=
pulate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to di=
scuss with more HW vendors.

=20

Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, depending =
on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 generation=
s of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a r=
ather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different li=
ne cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported by t=
he node.

=20

Hope this helps,

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
To: <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a re=
ad-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how=
 many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.=20

=20

Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the n=
ode MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up t=
o K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so canno=
t do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in servi=
ce failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MS=
D be a node capability instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' define=
d in the yang draft?

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

_______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@=
ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=20


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This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
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=20


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
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v class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri'>Muthu,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Sasha is right, t=
his list is not a right place to discuss HW details, which is usually under =
NDA anyway.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Having worked with man=
y different NPU&#8217;s &#8211; there are ways to program NPU&#8217;s differ=
ently, depending on scale/ throughput and ability to look below SDK, don&#82=
17;t forget about recirculation too. In a chassis packet processing is divid=
ed between ingress and egress NPU&#8217;s, which makes end result very imple=
mentation dependent. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;p=
adding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:Calibri;color:black'>Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;muthu.arul@gmail.=
com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 03:07<br><b>To: </b>Alexa=
nder Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Jeff =
Tantsura &lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, &quot;spring@ietf.org&quot; &lt;sp=
ring@ietf.org&gt;, Shell Nakash &lt;Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com&gt;, Michael Go=
rokhovsky &lt;Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com&gt;, Ron Sdayoor &lt;Ron.Sdayo=
or@ecitele.com&gt;, Rotem Cohen &lt;Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com&gt;<br><b>Subjec=
t: </b>Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-family:Arial'>Hi&nbsp;Sasha,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vain=
shtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote s=
tyle=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;=
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Muthu,</span><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;c=
olor:#44546A'>Two clarifications:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dgmail-m-1284=
547066174082180msolistparagraph style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>1.</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>The number of &#8220=
;service-related&#8221; labels depends on the service. Flow-aware PWs (<a hr=
ef=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6391</a>), entr=
opy labels for IP VPN (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D=
"_blank">RFC 6790</a>) and, possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (<a href=
=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708" target=3D"_blank">RFC 7708</a>) give yo=
u some examples. To the best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects max=
imum imposable label stack depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-spec=
ific at all.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BIsn'=
t it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in the MPLS LSR M=
IB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabel=
StackDepth &nbsp;OBJECT-TYPE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;SY=
NTAX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Unsigned32 (1..2147483647)<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font=
-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;MAX-ACCESS &nbsp; &nbsp;read-only<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;STATUS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;current<o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;DESCRIPTION<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;The maximum stack depth supported=
 by this LSR.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 =
}<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in=
'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Thi=
s is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write. Anyway, we=
 could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instead of MSD,to i=
ndicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also clarify this in dr=
aft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts to avoid misinterpret=
ation, IMHO.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;borde=
r-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margi=
n-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3Dgmail-m-1284547066174082180msolistparagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;c=
olor:#44546A'>2.</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I believe that I have already explained how the same=
 HW may support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources=
. In the example I&#8217;ve given, if a single &#8220;egress encapsulation d=
atabase&#8221; entry can contain &#8220;N&#8221; labels, and &#8220;M&#8221;=
 such entries are available in the forwarding HW memory, the user may config=
ure MSD to N and expect HW to support &#8220;M&#8221;LSP &nbsp;out-segments,=
 or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and expect forwarding HW to support on=
ly (M/2) LSP out-segments.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:=
Arial'>=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are say=
ing that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of L=
SP out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this w=
ay. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossible la=
bel stack depth on a packet.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BRegards,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu=E2=80=8B<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;mar=
gin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;colo=
r:#44546A'>Hope this clarifies my position. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-le=
ft:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Sasha=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: +972-3926=
6302Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt=
:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>=
Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D=
"_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cali=
bri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> Mut=
hu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017=
 9:54 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-lef=
t:.5in'><br><b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Va=
inshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&g=
t;<br><b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; =
Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</=
a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD =
really a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:Arial'>Hi Saha,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in=
'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Please see inline..</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'>On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainsh=
tein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none=
;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt=
;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-le=
ft:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Mu=
thu hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Two points:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3Dgmail-m-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph style=3D'ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#445=
46A'>1.</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;=
color:#44546A'>My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is dif=
ferent: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol must ta=
ke into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN o=
r PW &#8220;application&#8221; labels, entropy labels/flow labels) </span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span sty=
le=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit =
supported by the h/w, right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the =
MSD on a node then?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mar=
gin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>My interpretation was that th=
e label stack has 2 parts -- the service part and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is th=
e maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP part. Now, MSD can be modifie=
d by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on what MPLS servic=
es the node provides..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu</span><o:p=
></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCC=
CCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margi=
n-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3Dgmail-m-1284547066174082=
180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>and not just the label=
s that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dgm=
ail-m-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph style=3D'margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>=
2.</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color=
:#44546A'>When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other paramete=
rs, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be pushed on t=
he packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the &nbsp;&#8220;egress encapsu=
lation&#8221; database in the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one =
such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another opti=
on would be to use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would increas=
e the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device c=
an support.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.75in'><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margi=
n-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A=
'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Hope this helps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#=
44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;m=
argin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44=
546A'>Sasha</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'=
>Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></=
span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel=
:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:=
#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com=
" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#=
44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:Calibri'> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mu=
thu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</=
b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell=
 Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.=
Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.=
Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com</a>=
&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.Co=
hen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is M=
SD really a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mar=
gin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-family:Arial'>Hi Saha,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Thanks for your inputs. C=
omments inline..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexan=
der Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D=
"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><bloc=
kquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.=
0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
Calibri;color:#44546A'>Jeff, Muthu and all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-lef=
t:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I c=
oncur with Jeff &#8211; MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW. </span=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defin=
ing different data paths thru it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>And it may we=
ll be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieved at the expense=
 of some other parameters.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has =
the foll:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><=
span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8B &nbsp; &nbsp;In case, there are additiona=
l labels (e.g. service) that are to</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp; be pushed to the st=
ack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mar=
gin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span=
 style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN an=
d the h/w label imposition limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to s=
upport up to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P=
' router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading of=
f higher MSD at the expense of something else?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margi=
n-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,=
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family=
:Arial'>Muthu=E2=80=8B</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #C=
CCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;mar=
gin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>This is exactly why MSD=
 should be treated as a configurable attribute. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margi=
n-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A=
'>Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD valu=
e would be supported.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
;color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Sasha</span><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;co=
lor:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%2=
03-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>=
Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D=
"_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.=
Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><=
o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:Calibri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Calibri'> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>=
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozh=
i Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.ar=
ul@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sprin=
g@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable =
attribute?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri'>Hi Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-lef=
t:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Thanks for your c=
omments!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:Calibri'>MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived d=
irectly from HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to que=
ry underlying HW for the MSD supported, there&#8217;s also dependency on SW =
support. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:=
auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>That&#8217;s why we have intr=
oduced &#8220;Type&#8221; field, so more than a single MDS type could be sig=
naled, as of now, we have only defined &#8220;Base&#8221; Type, that describ=
es total number of SID&#8217;s supported. I&#8217;d expect vendors to provid=
e clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW ar=
e coming from different vendors, I&#8217;d expect HW to be the limiting fact=
or and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-=
populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to =
discuss with more HW vendors.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Per node =
vs per LC capability &#8211; even on a same generation NPU, depending on rev=
ision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 generations of l=
ine cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a rather =
valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different line car=
ds. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported by the nod=
e.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Hope this helps,</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;=
color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:b=
lack'>Jeff</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5i=
n'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:bl=
ack'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>spring &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mu=
thu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date:=
 </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br><b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spr=
ing@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[sp=
ring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left=
:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang se=
ems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that is co=
nfigurable on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually suppor=
t changing the MSD on a node.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Courier New"'>Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum o=
f K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel o=
n the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to=
 push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration=
 like would result in service failure, is there a real motivation for changi=
ng MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the 'readabl=
e-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Muthu</span=
><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto=
m-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>______________________________________________=
_ spring mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sprin=
g@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring</a> <o:p></o:p></p></=
div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br>_____________________________________=
______________________________________<br><br>This e-mail message is intende=
d for the recipient only and contains information which is <br>CONFIDENTIAL =
and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this <br>t=
ransmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then del=
ete the original <br>and all copies thereof.<br>____________________________=
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockq=
uote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><=
/div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br>______________________________________=
_____________________________________<br><br>This e-mail message is intended=
 for the recipient only and contains information which is <br>CONFIDENTIAL a=
nd which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have received this <br>tr=
ansmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then dele=
te the original <br>and all copies thereof.<br>_____________________________=
______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></=
div></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><br>__=
_________________________________________________________________________<br=
><br>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inf=
ormation which is <br>CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telec=
om. If you have received this <br>transmission in error, please inform us by=
 e-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original <br>and all copies there=
of.<br>_____________________________________________________________________=
______<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></body></ht=
ml>

--B_3574310351_402079516--



From nobody Thu Apr  6 08:36:44 2017
Return-Path: <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2017 21:06:23 +0530
Message-ID: <CAKz0y8xJg7t2p-Z0J5Q8XSiV8LQRcHyubbRA=AR8McPPqz6RaA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>,  Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>,  Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>,  Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/vuWXHZNQl-WyfziHwC_S6TWmwp4>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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While we have been discussing what MSD is, let me rephrase my original
question/problem that made me reach out to the WG in the first place:

Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth of 4. For
simplicity, let's also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a single
linecard. Now, suppose the router is configured to do L3VPN with a PCE
(provided by another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on the router to
egress PEs. The questions is, what MSD value should the router advertise to
the PCE?

draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd says:

   MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of SIDs a
   node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation
   element/controller *and is only relevant to the part of the stack*
*   created as the result of the computation*.

In this case, the part of the stack created as the result of the
computation is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if it advertises a MSD of
4 and the PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4 SIDs, then the router
can't do L3VPN (because it doesn't have room to impose the VPN label).

The draft further says:

   In case, there are
   additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be pushed to the stack -
   MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that.

In this case there is an additional VPN label to be pushed onto to the
stack, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.

That's the only logical conclusion I can infer from the text in the MSD
drafts. If we mean something different, then we need to improve the text in
the drafts for it to be interpreted in a consistent manner.

BTW, we often discuss what vendors support/implement based on their
publicaly available information in IETF, and I don't see anything wrong
with that (what good are IETF standards that can't be implemented?)

Regards,
Muthu

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Muthu,
>
> I may be wrong here, but I think that *mplsMaxLabelStackDepth* in RFC 381=
3
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3813> most probably refers to maximum
> number of labels an LSR can simultaneously *look up in its ILM * and not
> to the maximum number of labels an LSR can *impose*.
>
>
>
> This makes sense to me since the former has been a well-known issue in
> 2004 (and earlier), e.g., if the LSR in question is an egress LER of an
> RSVP-TE LSP that uses FRR and is used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3
> VPN), while the latter has mainly become an issue with SR-TE.
>
>
>
> Regarding the trade-off between MSD and other HW resources:
>
> Your understanding of my general intention is correct. But what is (or is
> not) supported by this or that chip vendor is out of scope, and, from my
> POV,  should not be discussed on the IETF mailing lists.
>
> I can only say that, depending on the specific forwarding HW, there is
> more than one option for trade-offs, some of them quite ingenious.
>
> Again, the IETF mailing list is not the right place for discussing actual
> data path implementations IMHO.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:08 PM
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Sasha,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu,
>
> Two clarifications:
>
> 1.       The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends o=
n the service.
> Flow-aware PWs (RFC 6391 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391>), entropy
> labels for IP VPN (RFC 6790 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790>) and,
> possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (RFC 7708
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708>) give you some examples. To the
> best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label
> stack depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-specific at all.
>
> =E2=80=8BIsn't it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined i=
n the
> MPLS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth  OBJECT-TYPE
>
>    SYNTAX        Unsigned32 (1..2147483647 <02147%20483%20647>)
>
>    MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>
>    STATUS        current
>
>    DESCRIPTION
>
>        "The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR."
>
> ::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }
>
>
>
> This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write.
> Anyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instea=
d
> of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also
> clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts
> to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.
>
> 2.       I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may
> support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In
> the example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=
 database=E2=80=9D entry
> can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entr=
ies are available in the
> forwarding HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to
> support =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9DLSP  out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD=
 to (2*N) and
> expect forwarding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.
>
> =E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are s=
aying
> that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LS=
P
> out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this
> way. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossibl=
e
> label stack depth on a packet.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BRegards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> Hope this clarifies my position.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302Muthu,
>
>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Please see inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu hi,
>
> Two points:
>
> 1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is
> different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol
> must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (includi=
ng
> L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow lab=
els)
>
> =E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by t=
he h/w,
> right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?
>
>
>
> My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service par=
t
> and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go int=
o the LSP
> part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-=
LS
> depending on what MPLS services the node provides..
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
> and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE
>
> 2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other
> parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be
> pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegr=
ess
> encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in the forwarding HW, one option would be=
 to use
> one such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while anoth=
er
> option would be to use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would
> increase the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that th=
e
> device can support.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff, Muthu and all,
>
> I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW=
.
>
> Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data
> paths thru it.
>
> And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieve=
d
> at the expense of some other parameters.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are=
 to
>
>     be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label im=
position
> limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a
> SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be
> set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the
> expense of something else?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.
>
> Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD
> value would be supported.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Tantsura
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
> *To:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect ven=
dors to provide
> clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW a=
re
> coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting f=
actor and
> HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and
> auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot,
> plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>
>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><fo=
nt face=3D"monospace, monospace">While we have been discussing what MSD is,=
 let me rephrase my original question/problem that made me reach out to the=
 WG in the first place:</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-size:small"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=3D"monospace, m=
onospace">Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth o=
f 4. For simplicity, let&#39;s also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a=
 single linecard. Now, suppose the router is configured to do L3VPN with a =
PCE (provided by another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on the router to =
egress PEs. The questions is, what MSD value should the router advertise to=
 the PCE?</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small=
"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">draft-ietf-isis-segment-routin=
g-msd says:<br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"mono=
space, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><div class=
=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MSD of =
type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of SIDs a</font></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation</font></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0element/controller <b>and is only relevant to the part of the stack</=
b></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monosp=
ace"><b>=C2=A0 =C2=A0created as the result of the computation</b>.</font></=
div></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=
=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><fo=
nt face=3D"monospace, monospace">In this case, the part of the stack create=
d as the result of the computation is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if=
 it advertises a MSD of 4 and the PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4=
 SIDs, then the router can&#39;t do L3VPN (because it doesn&#39;t have room=
 to impose the VPN label).</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font f=
ace=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=
<font face=3D"monospace, monospace">The draft further says:</font></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be =
pushed to the stack -</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MSD SH=
OULD be adjusted to reflect that.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default">In this case there is an additional VPN lab=
el to be pushed onto to the stack, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.<=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">Th=
at&#39;s the only logical conclusion I can infer from the text in the MSD d=
rafts. If we mean something different, then we need to improve the text in =
the drafts for it to be interpreted in a consistent manner.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">BTW, we often dis=
cuss what vendors support/implement based on their publicaly available info=
rmation in IETF, and I don&#39;t see anything wrong with that (what good ar=
e IETF standards that can&#39;t be implemented?)</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default">Regards,</div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default">Muthu</div></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Alexander Vainshtein =
<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Muthu,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I may be wrong here, but I think that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;=
;color:rgb(68,84,106)">mplsMaxLabelStackDepth</span></b><span style=3D"font=
-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"> in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3813" target=3D"_blank">RFC 3813<=
/a> most probably refers to maximum number of labels an LSR can simultaneou=
sly
<b><i>look up in its ILM </i></b>=C2=A0and not to the maximum number of lab=
els an LSR can
<b><i>impose</i></b>. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">This makes sense to me since the former has =
been a well-known issue in 2004 (and earlier), e.g., if the LSR in question=
 is an egress LER of an RSVP-TE LSP that
 uses FRR and is used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3 VPN), while the la=
tter has mainly become an issue with SR-TE.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regarding the trade-off between MSD and othe=
r HW resources:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Your understanding of my general intention i=
s correct. But what is (or is not) supported by this or that chip vendor is=
 out of scope, and, from my POV, =C2=A0should
 not be discussed on the IETF mailing lists.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I can only say that, depending on the specif=
ic forwarding HW, there is more than one option for trade-offs, some of the=
m quite ingenious.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Again, the IETF mailing list is not the righ=
t place for discussing actual data path implementations IMHO.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p><span class=3D"gmail-">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" va=
lue=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=
=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-=
549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Alexand=
er.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<=
wbr>com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:=
calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-fami=
ly:calibri,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:08 PM</span></p><div><div class=3D"=
gmail-h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com=
</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@eci=
tele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;; R=
on Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.C=
ohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi=C2=
=A0Sasha,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">=
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Two clarifications:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180msolistpar=
agraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(68,84,106)">1.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:rgb(68,84,106)"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depen=
ds on the service. Flow-aware PWs (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/r=
fc6391" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6391</a>), entropy labels for
 IP VPN (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">=
RFC 6790</a>) and, possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (<a href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708" target=3D"_blank">RFC 7708</a>) give you s=
ome examples. To the best of my understanding,
 the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label stack depth that includes a=
ll labels, it is not SR-specific at all.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BIsn&#39;t it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in th=
e MPLS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth =C2=A0OBJECT-TYPE<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unsigned32 (1..<a href=3D"tel:02147=
%20483%20647" value=3D"+912147483647" target=3D"_blank">2147483647</a>)<u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0MAX-ACCESS =C2=A0 =C2=A0read-only<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0STATUS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0current<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0DESCRIPTION<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR.&qu=
ot;<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">::=3D {=
 mplsLsrObjects 11 }<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">This is=
 a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write. Anyway, we co=
uld perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instead of MSD,to ind=
icate that it is not SR specific at
 all. We should also clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-m=
sd and other MSD drafts to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180msolistpar=
agraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:=
rgb(68,84,106)">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;color:rgb(68,84,106)"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may =
support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In th=
e example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress
 encapsulation database=E2=80=9D entry can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labe=
ls, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entries are available in the forwarding HW=
 memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support =E2=80=9C=
M=E2=80=9DLSP =C2=A0out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and =
expect forwarding
 HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are saying th=
at a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LSP ou=
t segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor
 currently support it this way. My understanding is that BCM supports only =
a fixed maximum impossible label stack depth on a packet.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BRegards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Muthu=
=E2=80=8B<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Hope this clarifies my position.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8B=E2=80=8B<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sasha<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office: +972-39266302Muthu,</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Saha=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Please =
see inline..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Muthu hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Two points:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m403429779=
2877367856msolistparagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">1.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;c=
olor:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is di=
fferent: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol must =
take into account all labels that can
 be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D=
 labels, entropy labels/flow labels)
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the h/w, =
right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on
 a node then?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">My inte=
rpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part and the=
 LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can
 go into the LSP part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised i=
n IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on what MPLS services the node provides..</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Regards=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Muthu</=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m403429779=
2877367856msolistparagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">and not just the labels that represent =
the list of SIDs for SR-TE</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"gmail-m_143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m403429779=
2877367856msolistparagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calib=
ri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7pt;c=
olor:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(68,84,106)">When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other pa=
rameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be push=
ed on the packet is stored in a fixed
 size entry in the =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in=
 the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one such entry (with the res=
ulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another option would be to use a li=
nked list of such entries per LSP. This would increase
 the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device c=
an support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,8=
4,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Hope this helps.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Saha=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks =
for your inputs. Comments inline..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Jeff, Muthu and all,</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defi=
ned just by HW but also by SW.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Same HW may yield different MSD values with =
SW defining different data paths thru it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">And it may well be a matter of tradeoff wher=
e higher MSD could be achieved at the expense of some other
 parameters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd has the foll:</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8B =C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that a=
re to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that</spa=
n><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=E2=80=
=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label imposition=
 limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up
 to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a &#39;P&#39=
; router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading o=
ff higher MSD at the expense of something else?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Regards=
,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Muthu=
=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">This is exactly why MSD should be treated as=
 a configurable attribute.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Of course this does not preclude implementat=
ions when exactly one MSD value would be supported.</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Thanks for your comments!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from =
HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides
 an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also =
dependency on SW support.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D fiel=
d, so more than a single MDS type could be signaled, as of now, we have
 only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that describes total number of S=
ID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidanc=
e wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from =
different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW
 vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-populate=
 the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss=
 with more HW vendors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation=
 NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically,
 routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so M=
SD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel =
could exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to th=
e lowest value supported by the
 node.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hope this helps,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:calibri,=
sans-serif;color:black">Jeff</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">From: </span>=
</b><span style=3D"font-family:calibri,sans-serif;color:black">spring &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@=
ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
 Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muth=
u.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-ya=
ng seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that=
 is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually=
 support changing the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Suppose a node is capab=
le of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured a=
s K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means t=
he node will not be able to push a VPN label,
 so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would resul=
t in service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node=
? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the &#39;readable-label-sta=
ck-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Regards,</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36pt">
______________________________<wbr>_________________ spring mailing list <a=
 href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=
" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"gmail-h5">
<br clear=3D"both">
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
CC: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, "Michael Gorokhovsky" <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 10:58:31 +0530
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To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>,  Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>,  Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>,  Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Sasha,

I think we are on the same page now. To sum up, Type 1 MSD is *not* always
the maximum imposible stack depth of the hardware/chip -- it is the maximum
imposible stack depth my MPLS applications wants to advertise to the rest
of the world. If there is no such application running on the node (e.g.
bare-metal environment), then it could be the hardware/chip limit, in which
case an external application (i.e PCE) is expected to provide the entire
label stack the node would have to push on to the packets.

This also explains why MSD need to be a configurable attribute -- it needs
to be configured based on the application running on the node. This
configured value is then advertised in IGPs/PCEP/BGP-LS. In the absence of
such a configuration, the node may end up always advertising the
hardware/chip limit, resulting in application/service failure.

Regards,
Muthu

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:

> Muthu,
>
> The Type 1 MSD that is signaled by the router to the PCE depends on
> specific of your L3 application and your network behavior
>
> E.g., if you expect your PCE to return a loose ERO comprised mainly (or
> completely) of a small number of Node SIDs, your IP VPN packets will empl=
oy
> ECMP between each adjacent pair of nodes in this ERO.
>
>
>
> If the routers in our network implement ECMP based on hashing of IP heade=
r
> fields, then you need just one application label in the label stack, so y=
ou
> should signal Type 1 MSD =3D 3.
>
>
>
> However, if the routers in your network rely on entropy labels in the
> label stack for ECMP, signal the ELC attribute in NRLI for IP-VPN routes
> they distribute as defined in RFC 6970, and impose these labels at ingres=
s,
> then you will need two additional label stack entries in your stack (one
> for the ELI reserved label and one for the entropy label itself). And, of
> course, you will still need the IP VPN application label. So you can only
> signal Type 1 MSD=3D1 to your PCE, i.e., there will be no SR traffic
> engineering at all.
>
>
>
> Hopefully this addresses your concerns.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 06, 2017 6:36 PM
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> While we have been discussing what MSD is, let me rephrase my original
> question/problem that made me reach out to the WG in the first place:
>
>
>
> Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth of 4. For
> simplicity, let's also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a single
> linecard. Now, suppose the router is configured to do L3VPN with a PCE
> (provided by another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on the router to
> egress PEs. The questions is, what MSD value should the router advertise =
to
> the PCE?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd says:
>
>
>
>    MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of SIDs a
>
>    node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation
>
>    element/controller *and is only relevant to the part of the stack*
>
> *   created as the result of the computation*.
>
>
>
> In this case, the part of the stack created as the result of the
> computation is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if it advertises a MSD =
of
> 4 and the PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4 SIDs, then the router
> can't do L3VPN (because it doesn't have room to impose the VPN label).
>
>
>
> The draft further says:
>
>
>
>    In case, there are
>
>    additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be pushed to the stack -
>
>    MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that.
>
>
>
> In this case there is an additional VPN label to be pushed onto to the
> stack, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.
>
>
>
> That's the only logical conclusion I can infer from the text in the MSD
> drafts. If we mean something different, then we need to improve the text =
in
> the drafts for it to be interpreted in a consistent manner.
>
>
>
> BTW, we often discuss what vendors support/implement based on their
> publicaly available information in IETF, and I don't see anything wrong
> with that (what good are IETF standards that can't be implemented?)
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu,
>
> I may be wrong here, but I think that *mplsMaxLabelStackDepth* in RFC 381=
3
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3813> most probably refers to maximum
> number of labels an LSR can simultaneously *look up in its ILM * and not
> to the maximum number of labels an LSR can *impose*.
>
>
>
> This makes sense to me since the former has been a well-known issue in
> 2004 (and earlier), e.g., if the LSR in question is an egress LER of an
> RSVP-TE LSP that uses FRR and is used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3
> VPN), while the latter has mainly become an issue with SR-TE.
>
>
>
> Regarding the trade-off between MSD and other HW resources:
>
> Your understanding of my general intention is correct. But what is (or is
> not) supported by this or that chip vendor is out of scope, and, from my
> POV,  should not be discussed on the IETF mailing lists.
>
> I can only say that, depending on the specific forwarding HW, there is
> more than one option for trade-offs, some of them quite ingenious.
>
> Again, the IETF mailing list is not the right place for discussing actual
> data path implementations IMHO.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:08 PM
>
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Sasha,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu,
>
> Two clarifications:
>
> 1.       The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends o=
n the service.
> Flow-aware PWs (RFC 6391 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391>), entropy
> labels for IP VPN (RFC 6790 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790>) and,
> possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (RFC 7708
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708>) give you some examples. To the
> best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label
> stack depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-specific at all.
>
> =E2=80=8BIsn't it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined i=
n the
> MPLS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth  OBJECT-TYPE
>
>    SYNTAX        Unsigned32 (1..2147483647 <02147%20483%20647>)
>
>    MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>
>    STATUS        current
>
>    DESCRIPTION
>
>        "The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR."
>
> ::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }
>
>
>
> This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write.
> Anyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instea=
d
> of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also
> clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts
> to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.
>
> 2.       I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may
> support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In
> the example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=
 database=E2=80=9D entry
> can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entr=
ies are available in the
> forwarding HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to
> support =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9DLSP  out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD=
 to (2*N) and
> expect forwarding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.
>
> =E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are s=
aying
> that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LS=
P
> out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this
> way. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossibl=
e
> label stack depth on a packet.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BRegards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> Hope this clarifies my position.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302Muthu,
>
>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Please see inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Muthu hi,
>
> Two points:
>
> 1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is
> different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol
> must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (includi=
ng
> L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow lab=
els)
>
> =E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by t=
he h/w,
> right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?
>
>
>
> My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service par=
t
> and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go int=
o the LSP
> part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-=
LS
> depending on what MPLS services the node provides..
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
> and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE
>
> 2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other
> parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be
> pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegr=
ess
> encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in the forwarding HW, one option would be=
 to use
> one such entry (with the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while anoth=
er
> option would be to use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would
> increase the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that th=
e
> device can support.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
> *To:* Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell
> Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <
> Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>;
> Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Saha,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <
> Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff, Muthu and all,
>
> I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW=
.
>
> Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data
> paths thru it.
>
> And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieve=
d
> at the expense of some other parameters.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are=
 to
>
>     be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that
>
>
>
> =E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label im=
position
> limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a
> SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be
> set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the
> expense of something else?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu=E2=80=8B
>
>
>
> This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.
>
> Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD
> value would be supported.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sasha
>
>
>
> Office: +972-39266302 <+972%203-926-6302>
>
> Cell:      +972-549266302 <+972%2054-926-6302>
>
> Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com
>
>
>
> *From:* spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Tantsura
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
> *To:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> Hi Muthu,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments!
>
> MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW
> capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying
> HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.
>
>
>
> That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so mo=
re than a single MDS type
> could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D=
 Type, that
> describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect ven=
dors to provide
> clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW a=
re
> coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting f=
actor and
> HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and
> auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot,
> plan to discuss with more HW vendors.
>
>
>
> Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, de=
pending
> on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3
> generations of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per
> adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could
> exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the
> lowest value supported by the node.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
> Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
> *To: *<spring@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a
> read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonde=
r
> how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.
>
>
>
> Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the
> node MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify =
up
> to K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so
> cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result =
in
> service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node?
> Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the
> 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang draft?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Muthu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
> delete the original
> and all copies thereof.
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains
> information which is
> CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have
> received this
> transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then
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> ____________________________________________________________
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>

--94eb2c0963146bcd49054c8ce5d8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Sasha,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small">I think we are on the same page now. To sum up, Type 1=
 MSD is *not* always the maximum imposible stack depth of the hardware/chip=
 -- it is the maximum imposible stack depth my MPLS applications wants to a=
dvertise to the rest of the world. If there is no such application running =
on the node (e.g. bare-metal environment), then it could be the hardware/ch=
ip limit, in which case an external application (i.e PCE) is expected to pr=
ovide the entire label stack the node would have to push on to the packets.=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">This also explains wh=
y MSD need to be a configurable attribute -- it needs to be configured base=
d on the application running on the node. This configured value is then adv=
ertised in IGPs/PCEP/BGP-LS. In the absence of such a configuration, the no=
de may end up always advertising the hardware/chip limit, resulting in appl=
ication/service failure.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l">Regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Muthu =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Alexan=
der Vainshtein <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_5938094891104139032WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Muthu,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">The Type 1 MSD that is signaled by th=
e router to the PCE depends on specific of your L3 application and your net=
work behavior<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">E.g., if you expect your PCE to retur=
n a loose ERO comprised mainly (or completely) of a small number of Node SI=
Ds, your IP VPN packets will employ ECMP between
 each adjacent pair of nodes in this ERO. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">If the routers in our network impleme=
nt ECMP based on hashing of IP header fields, then you need just one applic=
ation label in the label stack, so you should
 signal Type 1 MSD =3D 3.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">However, if the routers in your netwo=
rk rely on entropy labels in the label stack for ECMP, signal the ELC attri=
bute in NRLI for IP-VPN routes they distribute
 as defined in RFC 6970, and impose these labels at ingress, then you will =
need two additional label stack entries in your stack (one for the ELI rese=
rved label and one for the entropy label itself). And, of course, you will =
still need the IP VPN application
 label. So you can only signal Type 1 MSD=3D1 to your PCE, i.e., there will=
 be no SR traffic engineering at all.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Hopefully this addresses your concern=
s.<u></u><u></u></span></p><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6=
302" value=3D"+97239266302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <=
a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" value=3D"+972549266302" target=3D"_blank"=
>+972-549266302</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:=
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ec=
itele.<wbr>com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 06, 2017 6:36 PM</span></p><div><div class=3D"=
h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com=
</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@eci=
tele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;; R=
on Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.C=
ohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
While we have been discussing what MSD is, let me rephrase my original ques=
tion/problem that made me reach out to the WG in the first place:</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth of 4. For s=
implicity, let&#39;s also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a single li=
necard. Now, suppose the router is configured to do
 L3VPN with a PCE (provided by another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on =
the router to egress PEs. The questions is, what MSD value should the route=
r advertise to the PCE?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
draft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd says:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of =
SIDs a</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation<=
/span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0element/controller
<b>and is only relevant to the part of the stack</b></span><u></u><u></u></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">=C2=A0 =C2=A0created as the result of the computation</span></b><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
In this case, the part of the stack created as the result of the computatio=
n is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if it advertises a MSD of 4 and the=
 PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4 SIDs,
 then the router can&#39;t do L3VPN (because it doesn&#39;t have room to im=
pose the VPN label).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
The draft further says:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be pushed to the =
stack -<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
In this case there is an additional VPN label to be pushed onto to the stac=
k, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
That&#39;s the only logical conclusion I can infer from the text in the MSD=
 drafts. If we mean something different, then we need to improve the text i=
n the drafts for it to be interpreted in a consistent
 manner.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
BTW, we often discuss what vendors support/implement based on their publica=
ly available information in IETF, and I don&#39;t see anything wrong with t=
hat (what good are IETF standards that can&#39;t be implemented?)<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Muthu<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Alexander Vainshtein=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">=
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">I may be wrong here, but I think that
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quo=
t;;color:#44546a">mplsMaxLabelStackDepth</span></b><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a"> in
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3813" target=3D"_blank">RFC 3813<=
/a> most probably refers to maximum number of labels an LSR can simultaneou=
sly
<b><i>look up in its ILM </i></b>=C2=A0and not to the maximum number of lab=
els an LSR can
<b><i>impose</i></b>. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">This makes sense to me since the form=
er has been a well-known issue in 2004 (and earlier), e.g., if
 the LSR in question is an egress LER of an RSVP-TE LSP that uses FRR and i=
s used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3 VPN), while the latter has mainly=
 become an issue with SR-TE.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regarding the trade-off between MSD a=
nd other HW resources:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Your understanding of my general inte=
ntion is correct. But what is (or is not) supported by this or
 that chip vendor is out of scope, and, from my POV, =C2=A0should not be di=
scussed on the IETF mailing lists.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">I can only say that, depending on the=
 specific forwarding HW, there is more than one option for trade-offs,
 some of them quite ingenious. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Again, the IETF mailing list is not t=
he right place for discussing actual data path implementations
 IMHO.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gma=
il.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:08 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi=C2=A0Sasha,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">=
Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Two clarifications:</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454706=
6174082180msolistparagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">1.</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:7.0pt;color:#44546a">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#44546a">The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D label=
s depends on the service. Flow-aware PWs (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org=
/html/rfc6391" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6391</a>), entropy labels for
 IP VPN (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">=
RFC 6790</a>) and, possibly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (<a href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708" target=3D"_blank">RFC 7708</a>) give you s=
ome examples. To the best of my understanding,
 the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label stack depth that includes a=
ll labels, it is not SR-specific at all.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BIsn&#39;t it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object de=
fined in the MPLS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth =C2=A0OBJECT-TYPE</span><u></=
u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0SYNTAX =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unsigned32 (1..<a href=
=3D"tel:02147%20483%20647" target=3D"_blank">2147483647</a>)</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0MAX-ACCESS =C2=A0 =C2=A0read-only</span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0STATUS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0current</span><u></u><u=
></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0DESCRIPTION</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&quot;The maximum stack depth supported by =
this LSR.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write. A=
nyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD),
 instead of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should al=
so clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd and other MSD d=
rafts to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"m_5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454706=
6174082180msolistparagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">2.</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:7.0pt;color:#44546a">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#44546a">I believe that I have already explained how the same =
HW may support different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources=
. In the example I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress
 encapsulation database=E2=80=9D entry can contain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labe=
ls, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entries are available in the forwarding HW=
 memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support =E2=80=9C=
M=E2=80=9DLSP =C2=A0out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and =
expect forwarding
 HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you ar=
e saying that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in
 terms of LSP out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently suppo=
rt it this way. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum =
impossible label stack depth on a packet.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BRegards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Muthu=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Hope this clarifies my position.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sasha<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office: +972-39266302Muthu,</span><u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gma=
il.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi Saha,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Please see inline..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Muthu hi,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Two points:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454706=
6174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#44546a">1.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546a">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#44546a">My reading of the text in the draft to which you refe=
r is different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protoco=
l must take into account all labels that can
 be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN or PW =E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D=
 labels, entropy labels/flow labels)
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported b=
y the h/w, right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on
 a node then?=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service =
part and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can
 go into the LSP part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised i=
n IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on what MPLS services the node provides..</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Muthu</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"m_5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454706=
6174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#44546a">and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for =
SR-TE</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454706=
6174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparagraph">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#44546a">2.</span><span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546a">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans=
-serif;color:#44546a">When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some o=
ther parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to =
be pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed
 size entry in the =C2=A0=E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D database in=
 the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one such entry (with the res=
ulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another option would be to use a li=
nked list of such entries per LSP. This would increase
 the MSD at the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device c=
an support.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:18.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;=
color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Hope this helps.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gma=
il.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; S=
hell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@=
ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt;;
 Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Hi Saha,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtei=
n &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Jeff, Muthu and all,</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is n=
ot defined just by HW but also by SW.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Same HW may yield different MSD value=
s with SW defining different data paths thru it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">And it may well be a matter of tradeo=
ff where higher MSD could be achieved at the expense of some other
 parameters.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-<wbr>routing-msd has the foll:</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8B =C2=A0 =C2=A0In case, there are additional labels (e.g. serv=
ice) that are to</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to refle=
ct that</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label=
 imposition limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up
 to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a &#39;P&#39=
; router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading o=
ff higher MSD at the expense of something else?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Muthu=E2=80=8B</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">This is exactly why MSD should be tre=
ated as a configurable attribute.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Of course this does not preclude impl=
ementations when exactly one MSD value would be supported.</span><u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Sasha</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Office:
<a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0
<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexa=
nder.Vainshtein@ecitele.<wbr>com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#44546a">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.<wbr>org<=
/a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Muthu,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks for your comments!</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived =
directly from HW capabilities, in fact no vendor today provides
 an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also =
dependency on SW support.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=
=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS type could be signaled, as of no=
w, we have
 only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, that describes total number of S=
ID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to provide clear guidanc=
e wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from =
different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW
 vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-populate=
 the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss=
 with more HW vendors.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a s=
ame generation NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastic=
ally,
 routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so M=
SD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel =
could exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to th=
e lowest value supported by the
 node.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">Hope this helps,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Jeff</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">F=
rom: </span></b><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;c=
olor:black">spring &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi
 Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muth=
u.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@=
ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">draft-ietf-spring-sr-ya=
ng seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a read-write attribute that=
 is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how many vendors actually=
 support changing the MSD on a node.=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Suppose a node is capab=
le of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is configured a=
s K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This means t=
he node will not be able to push a VPN label,
 so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would resul=
t in service failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node=
? Should MSD be a node capability instead, like the &#39;readable-label-sta=
ck-depth&#39; defined in the yang draft?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Regards,</span><u></u><=
u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Muthu</span><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
______________________________<wbr>_________________ spring mailing list <a=
 href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=
" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is
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transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
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______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____=
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 02:20:49 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Sasha,=20

Thanks for your help! You were faster than me, 5G transport summit took all=
 the time =E2=98=BA

=20

Muthu,

Glad all the questions have been clarified and we are on the same page.

=20

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 22:28
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf=
.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael=
.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohe=
n <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Sasha,

=20

I think we are on the same page now. To sum up, Type 1 MSD is *not* always =
the maximum imposible stack depth of the hardware/chip -- it is the maximum =
imposible stack depth my MPLS applications wants to advertise to the rest of=
 the world. If there is no such application running on the node (e.g. bare-m=
etal environment), then it could be the hardware/chip limit, in which case a=
n external application (i.e PCE) is expected to provide the entire label sta=
ck the node would have to push on to the packets.

=20

This also explains why MSD need to be a configurable attribute -- it needs =
to be configured based on the application running on the node. This configur=
ed value is then advertised in IGPs/PCEP/BGP-LS. In the absence of such a co=
nfiguration, the node may end up always advertising the hardware/chip limit,=
 resulting in application/service failure.

=20

Regards,

Muthu =20

=20

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu,

The Type 1 MSD that is signaled by the router to the PCE depends on specifi=
c of your L3 application and your network behavior

E.g., if you expect your PCE to return a loose ERO comprised mainly (or com=
pletely) of a small number of Node SIDs, your IP VPN packets will employ ECM=
P between each adjacent pair of nodes in this ERO.=20

=20

If the routers in our network implement ECMP based on hashing of IP header =
fields, then you need just one application label in the label stack, so you =
should signal Type 1 MSD =3D 3.

=20

However, if the routers in your network rely on entropy labels in the label=
 stack for ECMP, signal the ELC attribute in NRLI for IP-VPN routes they dis=
tribute as defined in RFC 6970, and impose these labels at ingress, then you=
 will need two additional label stack entries in your stack (one for the ELI=
 reserved label and one for the entropy label itself). And, of course, you w=
ill still need the IP VPN application label. So you can only signal Type 1 M=
SD=3D1 to your PCE, i.e., there will be no SR traffic engineering at all.

=20

Hopefully this addresses your concerns.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 6:36 PM


To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

While we have been discussing what MSD is, let me rephrase my original ques=
tion/problem that made me reach out to the WG in the first place:

=20

Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth of 4. For s=
implicity, let's also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a single linecar=
d. Now, suppose the router is configured to do L3VPN with a PCE (provided by=
 another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on the router to egress PEs. The q=
uestions is, what MSD value should the router advertise to the PCE?

=20

draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd says:

=20

   MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to signal the number of SIDs a

   node is capable of imposing, to be used by a path computation

   element/controller and is only relevant to the part of the stack

   created as the result of the computation.

=20

In this case, the part of the stack created as the result of the computatio=
n is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if it advertises a MSD of 4 and the =
PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4 SIDs, then the router can't do L3V=
PN (because it doesn't have room to impose the VPN label).

=20

The draft further says:

=20

   In case, there are

   additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be pushed to the stack -

   MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that.

=20

In this case there is an additional VPN label to be pushed onto to the stac=
k, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.

=20

That's the only logical conclusion I can infer from the text in the MSD dra=
fts. If we mean something different, then we need to improve the text in the=
 drafts for it to be interpreted in a consistent manner.

=20

BTW, we often discuss what vendors support/implement based on their publica=
ly available information in IETF, and I don't see anything wrong with that (=
what good are IETF standards that can't be implemented?)

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu,

I may be wrong here, but I think that mplsMaxLabelStackDepth in RFC 3813 mo=
st probably refers to maximum number of labels an LSR can simultaneously loo=
k up in its ILM  and not to the maximum number of labels an LSR can impose.=20

=20

This makes sense to me since the former has been a well-known issue in 2004=
 (and earlier), e.g., if the LSR in question is an egress LER of an RSVP-TE =
LSP that uses FRR and is used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3 VPN), while=
 the latter has mainly become an issue with SR-TE.=20

=20

Regarding the trade-off between MSD and other HW resources:

Your understanding of my general intention is correct. But what is (or is n=
ot) supported by this or that chip vendor is out of scope, and, from my POV,=
  should not be discussed on the IETF mailing lists.

I can only say that, depending on the specific forwarding HW, there is more=
 than one option for trade-offs, some of them quite ingenious.=20

Again, the IETF mailing list is not the right place for discussing actual d=
ata path implementations IMHO.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 1:08 PM


To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Sasha,

=20

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@=
ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu,

Two clarifications:

1.       The number of =E2=80=9Cservice-related=E2=80=9D labels depends on the service.=
 Flow-aware PWs (RFC 6391), entropy labels for IP VPN (RFC 6790) and, possib=
ly, using GAL as a VCCV Indicator (RFC 7708) give you some examples. To the =
best of my understanding, the MSD value reflects maximum imposable label sta=
ck depth that includes all labels, it is not SR-specific at all.

=E2=80=8BIsn't it the same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in the MP=
LS LSR MIB (RFC 3813), then =E2=80=8B?=20

=20

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth  OBJECT-TYPE

   SYNTAX        Unsigned32 (1..2147483647)

   MAX-ACCESS    read-only

   STATUS        current

   DESCRIPTION

       "The maximum stack depth supported by this LSR."

::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }

=20

This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD is read-write. Anyway=
, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (MLSD), instead of MSD,=
to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should also clarify this i=
n draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD drafts to avoid misinter=
pretation, IMHO.

2.       I believe that I have already explained how the same HW may suppor=
t different MSD values depending on usage of some HW resources. In the examp=
le I=E2=80=99ve given, if a single =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation database=E2=80=9D entry can c=
ontain =E2=80=9CN=E2=80=9D labels, and =E2=80=9CM=E2=80=9D such entries are available in the forward=
ing HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support =E2=80=9CM=
=E2=80=9DLSP  out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and expect forwar=
ding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.

=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you are saying th=
at a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms of LSP out=
 segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it this way. My=
 understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossible label st=
ack depth on a packet.

=20

=E2=80=8BRegards,

Muthu=E2=80=8B

=20

Hope this clarifies my position.=20

=20

Regards,

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302Muthu,

=20

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 PM


To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Saha,

=20

Please see inline..

=20

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com> wrote:

Muthu hi,

Two points:

1.       My reading of the text in the draft to which you refer is differen=
t: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the protocol must take in=
to account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (including L3VPN or PW =
=E2=80=9Capplication=E2=80=9D labels, entropy labels/flow labels)=20

=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label imposition limit supported by the h/w, =
right? What is the motivation for s/w configuring the MSD on a node then?=20

=20

My interpretation was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part =
and the LSP part. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP=
 part. Now, MSD can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS=
 depending on what MPLS services the node provides..

=20

Regards,

Muthu

and not just the labels that represent the list of SIDs for SR-TE

2.       When I mentioned increase of MSD at expense of some other paramete=
rs, I had in mind something else. E.g., if the label stack to be pushed on t=
he packet is stored in a fixed size entry in the  =E2=80=9Cegress encapsulation=E2=80=9D=
 database in the forwarding HW, one option would be to use one such entry (w=
ith the resulting limit on the MSD) per LSP, while another option would be t=
o use a linked list of such entries per LSP. This would increase the MSD at =
the expense of the number of LSP out segments that the device can support.

=20

=20

Hope this helps.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
Cc: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org; Shell Nakash =
<Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>; Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele=
.com>; Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>; Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecite=
le.com>


Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Saha,

=20

Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..

=20

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein=
@ecitele.com> wrote:

Jeff, Muthu and all,

I concur with Jeff =E2=80=93 MSD is not defined just by HW but also by SW.=20

Same HW may yield different MSD values with SW defining different data path=
s thru it.

And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD could be achieved =
at the expense of some other parameters.

=20

=E2=80=8Bdraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:

=20

=E2=80=8B    In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are to

    be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that

=20

=E2=80=8BIf the node needs 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label imposition=
 limit is 6 (say), then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a S=
R-TE tunnel, right? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be set=
 as high as 6. Is that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the expens=
e of something else?

=20

Regards,

Muthu=E2=80=8B

=20

This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attribute.=20

Of course this does not preclude implementations when exactly one MSD value=
 would be supported.

=20

Regards,

Sasha

=20

Office: +972-39266302

Cell:      +972-549266302

Email:   Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com

=20

From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57 PM
To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>; spring@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

Hi Muthu,

=20

Thanks for your comments!

MSD is a configurable attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabil=
ities, in fact no vendor today provides an API to query underlying HW for th=
e MSD supported, there=E2=80=99s also dependency on SW support.=20

=20

That=E2=80=99s why we have introduced =E2=80=9CType=E2=80=9D field, so more than a single MDS=
 type could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined =E2=80=9CBase=E2=80=9D Type, th=
at describes total number of SID=E2=80=99s supported. I=E2=80=99d expect vendors to prov=
ide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disaggregated case, when HW and SW =
are coming from different vendors, I=E2=80=99d expect HW to be the limiting factor=
 and HW vendors to provide an API to query for the MSD supported and auto-po=
pulate the value in IGPs. I have reached out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to di=
scuss with more HW vendors.

=20

Per node vs per LC capability =E2=80=93 even on a same generation NPU, depending =
on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically, routers with 3 generation=
s of line cards are not an exception either, so MSD per adj/interface is a r=
ather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel could exit over different li=
ne cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the lowest value supported by t=
he node.

=20

Hope this helps,

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

=20

=20

From: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Muthu Arul Mozhi Peruma=
l <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38
To: <spring@ietf.org>
Subject: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?

=20

draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as a re=
ad-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder how=
 many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.=20

=20

Suppose a node is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the n=
ode MSD is configured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up t=
o K SIDs. This means the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so canno=
t do L3VPN/L2VPN. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in servi=
ce failure, is there a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MS=
D be a node capability instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' define=
d in the yang draft?

=20

Regards,

Muthu

=20

_______________________________________________ spring mailing list spring@=
ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring=20


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
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transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
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=20


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
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=20


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
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___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________

=20


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa=
tion which is=20
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei=
ved this=20
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d=
elete the original=20
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________

=20


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--></style></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><di=
v class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri'>Sasha, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Thanks for your help! You were faster =
than me, 5G transport summit took all the time </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"'>=E2=98=BA</span><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Muthu,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:Calibri'>Glad all the questions have been clarified and we are on the same =
page.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibr=
i'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:Calibri'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none=
;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>=
From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Muthu Arul Mo=
zhi Perumal &lt;muthu.arul@gmail.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 6, =
2017 at 22:28<br><b>To: </b>Alexander Vainshtein &lt;Alexander.Vainshtein@ec=
itele.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>Jeff Tantsura &lt;jefftant.ietf@gmail.com&gt;, &=
quot;spring@ietf.org&quot; &lt;spring@ietf.org&gt;, Shell Nakash &lt;Shell.N=
akash@ecitele.com&gt;, Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.c=
om&gt;, Ron Sdayoor &lt;Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com&gt;, Rotem Cohen &lt;Rotem.C=
ohen@ecitele.com&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configu=
rable attribute?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
argin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Sasha,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>I think we are on th=
e same page now. To sum up, Type 1 MSD is *not* always the maximum imposible=
 stack depth of the hardware/chip -- it is the maximum imposible stack depth=
 my MPLS applications wants to advertise to the rest of the world. If there =
is no such application running on the node (e.g. bare-metal environment), th=
en it could be the hardware/chip limit, in which case an external applicatio=
n (i.e PCE) is expected to provide the entire label stack the node would hav=
e to push on to the packets.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:Arial'>This also explains why MSD need to be a configurable=
 attribute -- it needs to be configured based on the application running on =
the node. This configured value is then advertised in IGPs/PCEP/BGP-LS. In t=
he absence of such a configuration, the node may end up always advertising t=
he hardware/chip limit, resulting in application/service failure.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Alexander V=
ainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquot=
e style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0=
pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Muthu,</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibr=
i;color:#44546A'>The Type 1 MSD that is signaled by the router to the PCE de=
pends on specific of your L3 application and your network behavior</span><o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#44546A'>E.g., if you expect your PCE to return a loose ERO compr=
ised mainly (or completely) of a small number of Node SIDs, your IP VPN pack=
ets will employ ECMP between each adjacent pair of nodes in this ERO. </span=
><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>If the routers i=
n our network implement ECMP based on hashing of IP header fields, then you =
need just one application label in the label stack, so you should signal Typ=
e 1 MSD =3D 3.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margi=
n-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A=
'>However, if the routers in your network rely on entropy labels in the labe=
l stack for ECMP, signal the ELC attribute in NRLI for IP-VPN routes they di=
stribute as defined in RFC 6970, and impose these labels at ingress, then yo=
u will need two additional label stack entries in your stack (one for the EL=
I reserved label and one for the entropy label itself). And, of course, you =
will still need the IP VPN application label. So you can only signal Type 1 =
MSD=3D1 to your PCE, i.e., there will be no SR traffic engineering at all.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-marg=
in-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal sty=
le=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Hopefully this=
 addresses your concerns.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso=
-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;=
color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Sasha</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=
auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;col=
or:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%20=
3-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-l=
eft:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>C=
ell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"=
_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <=
a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.V=
ainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso=
-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calib=
ri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> Muth=
u Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 06, 2017 6=
:36 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:=
.5in'><br><b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vain=
shtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Sh=
ell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Mi=
chael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>=
&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD re=
ally a configurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-l=
eft:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Courier New"'>While we have been discussing what MSD is, let me re=
phrase my original question/problem that made me reach out to the WG in the =
first place:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New=
"'>Suppose a router supports a maximum imposible label stack depth of 4. For=
 simplicity, let's also assume that it is a pizza box, so has a single linec=
ard. Now, suppose the router is configured to do L3VPN with a PCE (provided =
by another vendor) initiating SR-TE tunnels on the router to egress PEs. The=
 questions is, what MSD value should the router advertise to the PCE?</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>draft-ietf-isis-=
segment-routing-msd says:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-f=
amily:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;MSD of type 1 (IANA Registry) is used to s=
ignal the number of SIDs a</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in=
'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;node is capable of im=
posing, to be used by a path computation</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;element=
/controller <b>and is only relevant to the part of the stack</b></span><o:p>=
</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-m=
argin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier=
 New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;created as the result of the computation</span></b><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;=
margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In this case, the part of the stack created=
 as the result of the computation is the SR-TE label stack. Apparently, if i=
t advertises a MSD of 4 and the PCE sets up SR-TE tunnels consisting of 4 SI=
Ds, then the router can't do L3VPN (because it doesn't have room to impose t=
he VPN label).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso=
-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier N=
ew"'>The draft further says:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5=
in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;In case, there are</span><o:p></o:p></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp=
; &nbsp;additional labels (e.g. service) that are to be pushed to the stack =
-</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-famil=
y:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; &nbsp;MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect that.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Couri=
er New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span sty=
le=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>In this case there is an additional VPN label=
 to be pushed onto to the stack, so advertising an MSD of 3 should work.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Co=
urier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>That's the only logical conclusion I can i=
nfer from the text in the MSD drafts. If we mean something different, then w=
e need to improve the text in the drafts for it to be interpreted in a consi=
stent manner.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>BTW, we often discuss wha=
t vendors support/implement based on their publicaly available information i=
n IETF, and I don't see anything wrong with that (what good are IETF standar=
ds that can't be implemented?)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:=
.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Regards,=
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family=
:"Courier New"'>Muthu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5i=
n'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 =
PM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p=
></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:=
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5=
in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I may b=
e wrong here, but I think that </span><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New";color:#44546A'>mplsMaxLabelStackDepth</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'> in <a href=3D"https=
://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3813" target=3D"_blank">RFC 3813</a> most probably r=
efers to maximum number of labels an LSR can simultaneously <b><i>look up in=
 its ILM </i></b>&nbsp;and not to the maximum number of labels an LSR can <b=
><i>impose</i></b>. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color=
:#44546A'>This makes sense to me since the former has been a well-known issu=
e in 2004 (and earlier), e.g., if the LSR in question is an egress LER of an=
 RSVP-TE LSP that uses FRR and is used as a tunnel LSP by a PW or by a L3 VP=
N), while the latter has mainly become an issue with SR-TE. </span><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;c=
olor:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Regarding the trade-off be=
tween MSD and other HW resources:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Your understa=
nding of my general intention is correct. But what is (or is not) supported =
by this or that chip vendor is out of scope, and, from my POV, &nbsp;should =
not be discussed on the IETF mailing lists.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-lef=
t:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I c=
an only say that, depending on the specific forwarding HW, there is more tha=
n one option for trade-offs, some of them quite ingenious. </span><o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;co=
lor:#44546A'>Again, the IETF mailing list is not the right place for discuss=
ing actual data path implementations IMHO.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left=
:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbs=
p;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Sasha<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-m=
argin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: <a =
href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
;color:#44546A'>Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-9=
26-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-lef=
t:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Ema=
il:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left=
:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbs=
p;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:Calibri'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Calibri'> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gma=
il.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday,=
 April 06, 2017 1:08 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><b=
r><b>To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@e=
citele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>C=
c:</b> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Naka=
sh@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Go=
rokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ro=
tem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem=
.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a c=
onfigurable attribute?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in=
'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family=
:Arial'>Hi&nbsp;Sasha,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, A=
lexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>=
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0=
in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bott=
om:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Two clarific=
ations:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3Dm5938094891104139032gmail-m14348805689=
9732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180msolistparagraph style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>1.</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>T=
he number of &#8220;service-related&#8221; labels depends on the service. Fl=
ow-aware PWs (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6391" target=3D"_blank">=
RFC 6391</a>), entropy labels for IP VPN (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/rfc6790" target=3D"_blank">RFC 6790</a>) and, possibly, using GAL as a VCCV=
 Indicator (<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7708" target=3D"_blank">RF=
C 7708</a>) give you some examples. To the best of my understanding, the MSD=
 value reflects maximum imposable label stack depth that includes all labels=
, it is not SR-specific at all.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BIsn't it t=
he same as the mplsMaxLabelStackDepth object defined in the MPLS LSR MIB (RF=
C 3813), then =E2=80=8B?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp=
;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial=
'>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BmplsMaxLabelStackDepth &nbsp;OBJECT-TYPE</span><o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;SYNTAX =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Unsigned32 (1..<a href=3D"tel:02147%20483%20647" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">2147483647</a>)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.=
5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;MAX-ACCESS &nbsp; &nbsp;re=
ad-only</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font=
-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp;STATUS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;current</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'=
>&nbsp; &nbsp;DESCRIPTION</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;The maximu=
m stack depth supported by this LSR.&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;=
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>::=3D { mplsLsrObjects 11 }<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt=
:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:=
Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-family:Arial'>This is a read-only object, so I am wondering why MSD i=
s read-write. Anyway, we could perhaps name it as MPLS Label Stack Depth (ML=
SD), instead of MSD,to indicate that it is not SR specific at all. We should=
 also clarify this in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd and other MSD draf=
ts to avoid misinterpretation, IMHO.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt=
;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><d=
iv><div><p class=3Dm5938094891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-128454=
7066174082180msolistparagraph style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>2.</span><span style=3D'font-size:=
7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I believe that I have =
already explained how the same HW may support different MSD values depending=
 on usage of some HW resources. In the example I&#8217;ve given, if a single=
 &#8220;egress encapsulation database&#8221; entry can contain &#8220;N&#822=
1; labels, and &#8220;M&#8221; such entries are available in the forwarding =
HW memory, the user may configure MSD to N and expect HW to support &#8220;M=
&#8221;LSP &nbsp;out-segments, or he/she may configure MSD to (2*N) and expe=
ct forwarding HW to support only (M/2) LSP out-segments.</span><o:p></o:p></=
p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:Arial'>=E2=80=8BThis looks interesting. If I understood you correctly, you ar=
e saying that a higher MSD value could be traded for a lower scale (in terms=
 of LSP out segments). But, I wonder which h/w vendor currently support it t=
his way. My understanding is that BCM supports only a fixed maximum impossib=
le label stack depth on a packet.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5=
in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:Arial'>=E2=80=8BRegards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu=E2=80=8B</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquot=
e style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0=
pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>=
<div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto=
m-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calib=
ri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-=
margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Hope this clarifies my=
 position. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'=
>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:Arial'>=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>Sasha<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: +972-39266302Mut=
hu,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5=
in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Cell:&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank=
">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-marg=
in-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=
=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainsht=
ein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Fr=
om:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> Muthu Arul=
 Mozhi Perumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:54 P=
M</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br><b>To:</b> Alexander=
 Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> Jeff Tantsura &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jefftant.ietf@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@iet=
f.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com" target=
=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokhovsky &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael.Gorokhovsky=
@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem Cohen &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com</a>=
&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?=
<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p=
><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Hi Saha,</span=
><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial=
'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-family:Arial'>Please see inline..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-=
left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 =
at 11:54 PM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@e=
citele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt=
;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0=
in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Muthu hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#445=
46A'>Two points:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"m5938094891104139032gmail-m1=
43488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m4034297792877367856msolistparag=
raph" style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#44546A'>1.</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color:#44546A'>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>My reading of the text in the draft to which y=
ou refer is different: from my POV it means that the MSD advertised in the p=
rotocol must take into account all labels that can be pushed on a packet (in=
cluding L3VPN or PW &#8220;application&#8221; labels, entropy labels/flow la=
bels) </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:=
.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BThat makes MSD same as the label im=
position limit supported by the h/w, right? What is the motivation for s/w c=
onfiguring the MSD on a node then?&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ma=
rgin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>My interpretat=
ion was that the label stack has 2 parts -- the service part and the LSP par=
t. =E2=80=8BMSD is the maximum no. of SIDs that can go into the LSP part. Now, MSD=
 can be modified by the s/w and advertised in IGP/PCEP/BGP-LS depending on w=
hat MPLS services the node provides..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margi=
n-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,</span><o=
:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>M=
uthu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-=
left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-=
top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3D"m5938094=
891104139032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m40342977928=
77367856msolistparagraph" style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>and not just the labels that represe=
nt the list of SIDs for SR-TE</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D"m59380948911041=
39032gmail-m143488056899732593gmail-m-1284547066174082180m403429779287736785=
6msolistparagraph" style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>2.</span><span style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;color=
:#44546A'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>When I mentioned increase of MSD =
at expense of some other parameters, I had in mind something else. E.g., if =
the label stack to be pushed on the packet is stored in a fixed size entry i=
n the &nbsp;&#8220;egress encapsulation&#8221; database in the forwarding HW=
, one option would be to use one such entry (with the resulting limit on the=
 MSD) per LSP, while another option would be to use a linked list of such en=
tries per LSP. This would increase the MSD at the expense of the number of L=
SP out segments that the device can support.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-le=
ft:.75in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&=
nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:=
.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Hope =
this helps.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'=
>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:=
auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Sasha</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-le=
ft:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;=
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">+972-39266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Cell:&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-5=
49266302</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto=
:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecit=
ele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin=
-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>From:</spa=
n></b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> Muthu Arul Mozhi P=
erumal [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 9:13 PM<br><b>=
To:</b> Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitel=
e.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b=
> Jeff Tantsura &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>jefftant.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">spring@ietf.org</a>; Shell Nakash &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Shell.Nakash@ec=
itele.com" target=3D"_blank">Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Michael Gorokho=
vsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Mi=
chael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Ron Sdayoor &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Ron.S=
dayoor@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com</a>&gt;; Rotem C=
ohen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Rotem.Cohe=
n@ecitele.com</a>&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br>=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?<o:p></o=
:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Hi Saha,</span><o:p></=
o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-mar=
gin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;=
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family=
:Arial'>Thanks for your inputs. Comments inline..</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>On Wed=
, Apr 5, 2017 at 10:34 PM, Alexander Vainshtein &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Alexande=
r.Vainshtein@ecitele.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid=
 #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;=
margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'ms=
o-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Jeff, Muthu and all,=
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>I concur with Jeff &#8211; MSD is not defined =
just by HW but also by SW. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Same HW may yield d=
ifferent MSD values with SW defining different data paths thru it.</span><o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cal=
ibri;color:#44546A'>And it may well be a matter of tradeoff where higher MSD=
 could be achieved at the expense of some other parameters.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-=
alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><=
/div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8Bdraft-i=
etf-isis-segment-routing-msd has the foll:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;=
margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8B &nbsp; &=
nbsp;In case, there are additional labels (e.g. service) that are to</span><=
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=
&nbsp; &nbsp; be pushed to the stack - MSD SHOULD be adjusted to reflect tha=
t</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><=
div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom=
-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>=E2=80=8BIf the node n=
eeds 2 labels to support L3VPN and the h/w label imposition limit is 6 (say)=
, then MSD could be set to 4 to support up to 4 SIDs in a SR-TE tunnel, righ=
t? OTOH, if the node is just a 'P' router, MSD could be set as high as 6. Is=
 that what you mean by trading off higher MSD at the expense of something el=
se?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:Arial'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:Arial'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-le=
ft:.5in'><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Muthu=E2=80=8B</span><o:p></o:p></p></div=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bot=
tom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style=3D=
'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margi=
n-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color=
:#44546A'>This is exactly why MSD should be treated as a configurable attrib=
ute. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Of course this does not preclude implemen=
tations when exactly one MSD value would be supported.</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#=
44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;colo=
r:#44546A'>Sasha</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;m=
argin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#44=
546A'>Office: <a href=3D"tel:+972%203-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-39266302<=
/a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:Calibri;color:#44546A'>Cell:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=
=3D"tel:+972%2054-926-6302" target=3D"_blank">+972-549266302</a></span><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;c=
olor:#44546A'>Email:&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitel=
e.com" target=3D"_blank">Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com</a></span><o:p></o:p=
></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Cali=
bri;color:#44546A'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;=
border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
 style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'=
><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'> spring [mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:spring-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>Jeff Tantsura<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2017 7:57=
 PM<br><b>To:</b> Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.arul@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:sprin=
g@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [spri=
ng] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div=
><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bott=
om-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D=
'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Hi Muthu,</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;=
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:Calibri'>Thanks for your comments!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:=
.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>MSD is a configurab=
le attribute, it is not derived directly from HW capabilities, in fact no ve=
ndor today provides an API to query underlying HW for the MSD supported, the=
re&#8217;s also dependency on SW support. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left=
:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-botto=
m-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calib=
ri'>That&#8217;s why we have introduced &#8220;Type&#8221; field, so more th=
an a single MDS type could be signaled, as of now, we have only defined &#82=
20;Base&#8221; Type, that describes total number of SID&#8217;s supported. I=
&#8217;d expect vendors to provide clear guidance wrt MSD semantics, in disa=
ggregated case, when HW and SW are coming from different vendors, I&#8217;d =
expect HW to be the limiting factor and HW vendors to provide an API to quer=
y for the MSD supported and auto-populate the value in IGPs. I have reached =
out to BCM and Barefoot, plan to discuss with more HW vendors.</span><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:a=
uto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:Calibri'>Per node vs per LC capability &#8211; even on a same=
 generation NPU, depending on revision, MSD supported could vary drastically=
, routers with 3 generations of line cards are not an exception either, so M=
SD per adj/interface is a rather valuable information to a PCE if a tunnel c=
ould exit over different line cards. Per node MSD limits computation to the =
lowest value supported by the node.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>Hop=
e this helps,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin=
-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;m=
argin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:bla=
ck'>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black'>Jeff</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;marg=
in-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&nbsp;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margi=
n-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:Calibri'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:so=
lid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><b><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:Calibri;color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:Calibri;color:black'>spring &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">spring-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Muthu Arul Moz=
hi Perumal &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">muthu.a=
rul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 09:38<br><=
b>To: </b>&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribut=
e?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-=
alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>=
</div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-m=
argin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier N=
ew"'>draft-ietf-spring-sr-yang seems to describe Maximum SID Depth (MSD) as =
a read-write attribute that is configurable on the node, but I really wonder=
 how many vendors actually support changing the MSD on a node.&nbsp;</span><=
o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Suppose a node =
is capable of pushing a maximum of K labels in h/w and the node MSD is confi=
gured as K, then a SR-TE tunnel on the node can specify up to K SIDs. This m=
eans the node will not be able to push a VPN label, so cannot do L3VPN/L2VPN=
. Given that a miss-configuration like would result in service failure, is t=
here a real motivation for changing MSD on a node? Should MSD be a node capa=
bility instead, like the 'readable-label-stack-depth' defined in the yang dr=
aft?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>Reg=
ards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Courier New"'>Muthu</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0=
in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:1.0in'>_____________=
__________________________________ spring mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:sprin=
g@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list=
info/spring</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.5in'><br>____=
_______________________________________________________________________<br><=
br>This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains infor=
mation which is <br>CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom=
. If you have received this <br>transmission in error, please inform us by e=
-mail, phone or fax, and then delete the original <br>and all copies thereof=
.<br>_______________________________________________________________________=
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, Shell Nakash <Shell.Nakash@ecitele.com>, Michael Gorokhovsky <Michael.Gorokhovsky@ecitele.com>, Ron Sdayoor <Ron.Sdayoor@ecitele.com>, Rotem Cohen <Rotem.Cohen@ecitele.com>, Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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Subject: Re: [spring] Is MSD really a configurable attribute?
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking of the IETF.

        Title           : Anycast Segments in MPLS based Segment Routing
        Authors         : Pushpasis Sarkar
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Martin Horneffer
	Filename        : draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2017-04-10

Abstract:
   Instead of forwarding to a specific device or to all devices in a
   group, anycast addresses, let network devices forward a packet to (or
   steer it through) one or more topologically nearest devices in a
   specific group of network devices.  The use of anycast addresses has
   been extended to the Segment Routing (SR) network, wherein a group of
   SR-capable devices can represent a anycast address, by having the
   same Segment Routing Global Block (SRGB) provisioned on all the
   devices and each one of them advertising the same anycast prefix
   segment (or Anycast SID).

   This document describes a proposal for implementing anycast prefix
   segments in a MPLS-based SR network, without the need to have the
   same SRGB block (label ranges) provisioned across all the member
   devices in the group.  Each node can be provisioned with a separate
   SRGB from the label range supported by the specfic hardware platform.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Pushpasis Sarkar <pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 11:49:53 +0530
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Subject: [spring] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt
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--001a11420582796512054cde1461
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Hi Chairs,

Just submitted a new version to avoid expiration. The authors would like to
request starting the WGLC process for this draft as we understand there is
consensus on the same. Looking forward to the WGLC process kicking in soon..

Thanks and Best regards,
Pushpasis


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt
To: Stefano Previdi <sprevidi@cisco.com>, Pushpasis Sarkar <
pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com>, Bruno Decraene <bruno.decraene@orange.com>,
Hannes Gredler <hannes@rtbrick.com>, Clarence Filsfils <cfilsfil@cisco.com>,
Martin Horneffer <Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Pushpasis Sarkar and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments
Revision:       01
Title:          Anycast Segments in MPLS based Segment Routing
Document date:  2017-04-11
Group:          spring
Pages:          19
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-
anycast-segments-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-
anycast-segments/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-
anycast-segments-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-
mpls-anycast-segments-01
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-mpls-
anycast-segments-01

Abstract:
   Instead of forwarding to a specific device or to all devices in a
   group, anycast addresses, let network devices forward a packet to (or
   steer it through) one or more topologically nearest devices in a
   specific group of network devices.  The use of anycast addresses has
   been extended to the Segment Routing (SR) network, wherein a group of
   SR-capable devices can represent a anycast address, by having the
   same Segment Routing Global Block (SRGB) provisioned on all the
   devices and each one of them advertising the same anycast prefix
   segment (or Anycast SID).

   This document describes a proposal for implementing anycast prefix
   segments in a MPLS-based SR network, without the need to have the
   same SRGB block (label ranges) provisioned across all the member
   devices in the group.  Each node can be provisioned with a separate
   SRGB from the label range supported by the specfic hardware platform.





Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--001a11420582796512054cde1461
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Chairs,<div><br></div><div>Just submitted a new version=
 to avoid expiration. The authors would like to request starting the WGLC p=
rocess for this draft as we understand there is consensus on the same. Look=
ing forward to the WGLC process kicking in soon..</div><div><br></div><div>=
Thanks and Best regards,</div><div>Pushpasis</div><div><br></div><div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: =
<b class=3D"gmail_sendername"></b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: =
Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:44 AM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for draf=
t-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt<br>To: Stefano Previdi &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sprevidi@cisco.com">sprevidi@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Pushpasis Sark=
ar &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com">pushpasis.ietf@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;, Bruno Decraene &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bruno.decraene@orange.com">b=
runo.decraene@orange.com</a>&gt;, Hannes Gredler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hann=
es@rtbrick.com">hannes@rtbrick.com</a>&gt;, Clarence Filsfils &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cfilsfil@cisco.com">cfilsfil@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Martin Horneffer=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Martin.Horneffer@telekom.de">Martin.Horneffer@teleko=
m.de</a>&gt;<br><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-spring-mpls-<wbr>anycast-segments-01.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Pushpasis Sarkar and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-spring-mpls-<wbr>a=
nycast-segments<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A001<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Anycast Segments in MPLS based Seg=
ment Routing<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-04-11<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 spring<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01.txt" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draf=
t-ietf-spring-mpls-<wbr>anycast-segments-01.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-=
<wbr>anycast-segments/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-ietf-spring-mpls-<wbr>anycast-=
segments-01</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-ietf-sprin=
g-<wbr>mpls-anycast-segments-01</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-mpls-anycast-segments-01" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?<wbr>url2=3Ddraft-ietf=
-spring-mpls-<wbr>anycast-segments-01</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Instead of forwarding to a specific device or to all devices i=
n a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0group, anycast addresses, let network devices forward a packet=
 to (or<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0steer it through) one or more topologically nearest devices in=
 a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0specific group of network devices.=C2=A0 The use of anycast ad=
dresses has<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0been extended to the Segment Routing (SR) network, wherein a g=
roup of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SR-capable devices can represent a anycast address, by having =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0same Segment Routing Global Block (SRGB) provisioned on all th=
e<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0devices and each one of them advertising the same anycast pref=
ix<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0segment (or Anycast SID).<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes a proposal for implementing anycast pr=
efix<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0segments in a MPLS-based SR network, without the need to have =
the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0same SRGB block (label ranges) provisioned across all the memb=
er<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0devices in the group.=C2=A0 Each node can be provisioned with =
a separate<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0SRGB from the label range supported by the specfic hardware pl=
atform.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
</div><br></div></div>

--001a11420582796512054cde1461--


From nobody Tue Apr 11 00:04:58 2017
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Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Recursive Information
        Authors         : Clarence Filsfils
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Peter Psenak
                          Les Ginsberg
	Filename        : draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2017-04-11

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
   paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of
   topological sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are
   advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).

   There are use cases where it is desirable to utilize a SID associated
   with a given node in order to transport traffic destined to different
   local services supported by such node.  This document defines the
   mechanism to do so and illustrates it.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04.txt
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All,=20

this is a refresh of draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info.

The authors believe this document is ready for WG adoption and would like t=
o request the chairs to initiate the call.

Thanks.
s.



> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-=
info-04.txt
> Date: April 11, 2017 at 9:04:54 AM GMT+2
> To: Clarence Filsfils <cfilsfil@cisco.com>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.c=
om>, Stefano Previdi <sprevidi@cisco.com>, Les Ginsberg <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info-04.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Stefano Previdi and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:		draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recursing-info
> Revision:	04
> Title:		Segment Routing Recursive Information
> Document date:	2017-04-11
> Group:		spring
> Pages:		8
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-sr-recursing-info-04.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-sr=
-recursing-info/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-filsfils-spring-sr-recu=
rsing-info-04
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spri=
ng-sr-recursing-info-04
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-filsfils-spring=
-sr-recursing-info-04
>=20
> Abstract:
>   Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
>   paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of
>   topological sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are
>   advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).
>=20
>   There are use cases where it is desirable to utilize a SID associated
>   with a given node in order to transport traffic destined to different
>   local services supported by such node.  This document defines the
>   mechanism to do so and illustrates it.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20


From nobody Thu Apr 13 01:31:39 2017
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Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking of the IETF.

        Title           : IPv6 SPRING Use Cases
        Authors         : John Brzozowski
                          John Leddy
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Roberta Maglione
                          Mark Townsley
	Filename        : draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10.txt
	Pages           : 11
	Date            : 2017-04-13

Abstract:
   The objective of this document is to illustrate some use cases that
   need to be taken into account by the Source Packet Routing in
   Networking (SPRING) architecture in the context of an IPv6
   environment.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Apr 20 14:50:52 2017
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Subject: [spring] Last Call: <draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10.txt> (IPv6 SPRING Use Cases) to Informational RFC
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The IESG has received a request from the Source Packet Routing in
Networking WG (spring) to consider the following document:
- 'IPv6 SPRING Use Cases'
  <draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases-10.txt> as Informational RFC

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-05-04. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   The objective of this document is to illustrate some use cases that
   need to be taken into account by the Source Packet Routing in
   Networking (SPRING) architecture in the context of an IPv6
   environment.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-ipv6-use-cases/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.





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CC: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, spring@ietf.org, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases@ietf.org, spring-chairs@ietf.org, aretana@cisco.com, Stephane Litkowski <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
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Subject: [spring] Last Call: <draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08.txt> (Resiliency use cases in SPRING networks) to Informational RFC
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The IESG has received a request from the Source Packet Routing in
Networking WG (spring) to consider the following document:
- 'Resiliency use cases in SPRING networks'
  <draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08.txt> as Informational RFC

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-05-04. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This document identifies and describes the requirements for a set of
   use cases related to network resiliency on Segment Routing (SPRING)
   networks.





The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.





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To: "Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda)" <kmajumda@cisco.com>
Cc: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "Krishna Deevi (kdeevi)" <kdeevi@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] FW: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
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Hello Kausik,

Are you aware about similar attempts in the past ?

For starter can you elaborate if you conisdered to just add SR related
information to BGP Operational Message as defined before in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00 ?

Kind regards,
Dave, Robert & Rob.


On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <
kmajumda@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We have submitted the below draft "draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback"
> to describe the framework for BGP Feedback message in Segment Routing to
> notify the inconsistency in the network. Please review and provide valuable
> feedback.
>
> Regards
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 12:35 PM
> To: Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <kmajumda@cisco.com>; Krishna Deevi
> (kdeevi) <kdeevi@cisco.com>; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) <kdeevi@cisco.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-
> bgp-feedback-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Kausik Majumdar and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:           draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback
> Revision:       00
> Title:          A Framework for BGP Feedback Message In Segment Routing
> Document date:  2017-04-21
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          12
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deevimajumdar-
> spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deevimajumdar-
> spring-bgp-feedback/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-
> bgp-feedback-00
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-deevimajumdar-
> spring-bgp-feedback-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    In support of Segment Routing(SR), routing protocols advertise a
>    variety of identifiers used to define the segments that direct packet
>    forwarding.
>
>    In cases where the information advertised by a given protocol
>    instance is either internally inconsistent or conflicts with
>    advertisements from another protocol instance a means of notifying
>    the originator about the inconsistency is required.  This document
>    defines a generic mechanism to notify the BGP originator about the
>    inconsistency in the network.
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>

--001a1140f5e8296232054db4cc79
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hello Kausik,</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small">Are you aware about similar attempts in the pas=
t ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">For starter =
can you elaborate if you conisdered to just add SR related information to B=
GP Operational Message as defined before in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.i=
etf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00">https://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00</a> ?</div><div class=3D"gmail_d=
efault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small">Kind regards,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Dave, Robe=
rt &amp; Rob.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_e=
xtra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Kaus=
ik Majumdar (kmajumda) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cis=
co.com" target=3D"_blank">kmajumda@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
We have submitted the below draft &quot;draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp=
-feedback&quot; to describe the framework for BGP Feedback message in Segme=
nt Routing to notify the inconsistency in the network. Please review and pr=
ovide valuable feedback.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org<=
/a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@iet=
f.<wbr>org</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 12:35 PM<br>
To: Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cisco.com">km=
ajumda@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kdee=
vi@cisco.com">kdeevi@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:kdeevi@cisco.com">kdeevi@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-f=
eedback-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-feedback-00.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Kausik Majumdar and posted to the IETF r=
epository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<w=
br>bgp-feedback<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Framework for BGP Feedback Messa=
ge In Segment Routing<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-04-21<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 12<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draf=
t-deevimajumdar-<wbr>spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback/" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-deevimajumdar-<wb=
r>spring-bgp-feedback/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-=
feedback-00</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-deevimajum=
dar-<wbr>spring-bgp-feedback-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In support of Segment Routing(SR), routing protocols advertise=
 a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0variety of identifiers used to define the segments that direct=
 packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0forwarding.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In cases where the information advertised by a given protocol<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0instance is either internally inconsistent or conflicts with<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertisements from another protocol instance a means of notif=
ying<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the originator about the inconsistency is required.=C2=A0 This=
 document<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines a generic mechanism to notify the BGP originator about=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inconsistency in the network.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://to=
ols.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org">spring@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a><br=
>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1140f5e8296232054db4cc79--


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From: "Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda)" <kmajumda@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "Krishna Deevi (kdeevi)" <kdeevi@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [spring] FW: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
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To: "Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda)" <kmajumda@cisco.com>, "Krishna Deevi (kdeevi)" <kdeevi@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] FW: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
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Hello Kausik & Krishna,

Let me provide few additional comments below regarding your draft.

1. Your draft defines a new BGP message so irrespective on what this new
message is to carry this is within IDR charter not SPRING. Adding IDR WG to
this discussion and I do recommend you rename your draft and repost
accordingly to IETF rules.

2. draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00 is in expired state but please
keep in mind that it was accepted as IDR WG document. As no money were
behind to implement it by major vendors we stopped refreshing it. However
the objective of former work draft-ietf-idr-advisory as well as
draft-raszuk-bgp-diagnostic-message which after number of discussions in
IDR were both merged into the above operational message document. Note also
that the common goal of all of the above was to provide feedback to eBGP
peers on various BGP propagated data and its state on the receving BGP
speaker.

You state:

"The BGP Feedback message would be a generic purpose message and could

be used for any cases within BGP by defining the required new TLVs

under this message."


This is precisely what BGP OPERATIONAL MESSAGE also defines.


3. You state in your draft that the point of the proposal is to convey the
feedback information to the originator of the message. With that I have
following concerns:

*A*

All information you are proposing to add should already be logged to syslog
and since SR deployments are usually under same administrative umbrella
they can be easily retrieved from it. So effectively you are now defining
new BGP message to carry filtered syslog events in BGP. And while
questionable I am ok with it.

What I am not ok with is that BGP propagates information in p2mp fashion.
It has no provision for p2p messaging even if recently number of attempts
has been made to stretch it that way. So effectively while only originator
of the colliding information needs to get the feedback such feedback will
be propagated to *every bgp speaker* in the AS and beyond the AS (Internet
wide) if new BGP capability has been negotiated with the peer. The draft
even does not bring any form of protection on the intended recipient of the
message and propagation scope. Contrary all it says to define the
propagation rules is this:

   To achieve this a new BGP message type called BGP "Feedback Message"
   is defined in this draft.  The Feedback message type is to provide
   the feedback to the BGP peers.  It would be processed hop by hop like
   update message.


*B*


While I am not questioning use case I do not see that the current
proposal is the right transport for

it. What you need for iBGP side is pub/sub message bus to get syslog
notifications to selected

nodes. For eBGP (when SRv6 goes beying single administrative boundary)
use of Operational

message is something you may reconsider.


*C*


If you however still would like to continue using new message and load
BGP to carry filtered syslog

or effectively selected telemetry data I would recommend to instead
current propagation proposal of

"hop by hop like update message" make it to travel over targeted short
lived TCP sessions directly

between notifier and originator of the information you are proposing
to carry. Is this a good idea to still

call it BGP .. maybe yes .. maybe no. But this is what you really need
here rather then going back

via RRs and hitting 100s of routers which would have to parse new
message only to ignore it and

propagate further. How far .. as indicated above it is currently undefined.


Kind regards,

Robert.



On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 2:57 AM, Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda)
<kmajumda@cisco.com> wrote:


>
> Hello Robert,
>
>
>
> Thanks for providing the pointer on the BGP Operation Message Draft. We
> looked through it. In this draft, Operational message is defined to carry
> different types of Operational TLVs like: ADVISE, STATE, DUMP and CONTROL
> and trying to provide network operational data between the BGP nodes.
>
>
>
> The draft we proposed has a different purpose. It doesn=E2=80=99t exchang=
e BGP
> operational data between the BGP nodes. Rather it defines on how to send
> BGP feedback information for a prefix to notify the network inconsistency
> to the BGP originator. The current use cases are in the BGP Segment Routi=
ng
> application as described in the draft.
>
>
>
> Thanks & regards
>
>
>
> *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober=
t
> Raszuk
> *Sent:* Friday, April 21, 2017 3:30 PM
> *To:* Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <kmajumda@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* spring@ietf.org; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) <kdeevi@cisco.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [spring] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hello Kausik,
>
>
>
> Are you aware about similar attempts in the past ?
>
>
>
> For starter can you elaborate if you conisdered to just add SR related
> information to BGP Operational Message as defined before in
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00 ?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Dave, Robert & Rob.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <
> kmajumda@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> We have submitted the below draft "draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedbac=
k"
> to describe the framework for BGP Feedback message in Segment Routing to
> notify the inconsistency in the network. Please review and provide valuab=
le
> feedback.
>
> Regards
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 12:35 PM
> To: Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <kmajumda@cisco.com>; Krishna Deevi
> (kdeevi) <kdeevi@cisco.com>; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) <kdeevi@cisco.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-
> bgp-feedback-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Kausik Majumdar and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:           draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback
> Revision:       00
> Title:          A Framework for BGP Feedback Message In Segment Routing
> Document date:  2017-04-21
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          12
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deevimajumdar-
> spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-deevimajumdar-
> spring-bgp-feedback/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-
> bgp-feedback-00
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-deevimajumdar=
-
> spring-bgp-feedback-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    In support of Segment Routing(SR), routing protocols advertise a
>    variety of identifiers used to define the segments that direct packet
>    forwarding.
>
>    In cases where the information advertised by a given protocol
>    instance is either internally inconsistent or conflicts with
>    advertisements from another protocol instance a means of notifying
>    the originator about the inconsistency is required.  This document
>    defines a generic mechanism to notify the BGP originator about the
>    inconsistency in the network.
>
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hello Kausik &amp; Krishna,<br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-famil=
y:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Let me provide few additional=
 comments below regarding your draft.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">1. Your draft defines a new BGP message so irrespecti=
ve on what this new message is to carry this is within IDR charter not SPRI=
NG. Adding IDR WG to this discussion and I do recommend you rename your dra=
ft and repost accordingly to IETF rules. =C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:small">2.=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:1em;font-weight:=
bold;text-decoration-line:underline;font-family:arial,sans-serif">draft-iet=
f-idr-operational-message-00</span><span style=3D"font-size:1em;font-weight=
:bold;font-family:arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
em;font-family:arial,sans-serif">is in expired state but please keep in min=
d that it was accepted as IDR WG document. As no money were behind to imple=
ment it by major vendors we stopped refreshing it. However the objective of=
 former work draft-ietf-idr-advisory as well as draft-raszuk-bgp-diagnostic=
-message which after number of discussions in IDR were both merged into the=
 above operational message document. Note also that the common goal of all =
of the above was to provide feedback to eBGP peers on various BGP propagate=
d data and its state on the receving BGP speaker.=C2=A0</span></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br>=
</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:ar=
ial,sans-serif">You state:=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:1em"><font face=3D"monosp=
ace, monospace"><br></font></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-size:small"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.333=
3px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"monosp=
ace, monospace">&quot;The BGP Feedback message would be a generic purpose m=
essage and could </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-si=
ze:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=
=3D"monospace, monospace">be used for any cases within BGP by defining the =
required new TLVs </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=
=3D"monospace, monospace">under this message.&quot;</font></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><p=
re class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"=
>This is precisely what BGP OPERATIONAL MESSAGE also defines.<br></font></p=
re></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,=
sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:1em;font-family:arial,=
sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-size:1e=
m;font-family:arial,sans-serif">3. You state in your draft that the point o=
f the proposal is to convey the feedback information to the originator of t=
he message. With that I have following concerns:</span></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sm=
all"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size:1em">*=
A*=C2=A0</span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size:=
1em"><br></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size=
:1em">All information you are proposing to add should already be logged to =
syslog and since SR deployments are usually under same administrative umbre=
lla they can be easily </span>retrieved<span style=3D"font-size:1em">=C2=A0=
from it. So effectively you are now defining new BGP message to carry filte=
red syslog events in BGP. And while questionable I am ok with it.=C2=A0</sp=
an><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size:1em"><br=
></span></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size:1em">Wh=
at I am not ok with is that BGP propagates information in p2mp fashion. It =
has no provision for p2p messaging even if recently number of attempts has =
been made to stretch it that way. So effectively while only originator of t=
he colliding information needs to get the feedback such feedback will be pr=
opagated to <b>every bgp speaker</b> in the AS and beyond the AS (Internet =
wide) if new BGP capability has been negotiated with the peer. The draft ev=
en does not bring any form of protection on the intended </span>recipient<s=
pan style=3D"font-size:1em">=C2=A0of the message and propagation scope. Con=
trary all it says to define the propagation rules is this:</span></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default"><span style=3D"font-size:1em"><br></span></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default"><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">   To achieve t=
his a new BGP message type called BGP &quot;Feedback Message&quot;
   is defined in this draft.  The Feedback message type is to provide
   the feedback to the BGP peers.  It would be processed hop by hop like
   update message.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></pre><pre cl=
ass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">*B* =
</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;marg=
in-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helveti=
ca, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font fa=
ce=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">While I am not questioning use case I d=
o not see that the current proposal is the right transport for </font></pre=
><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;m=
argin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-ser=
if">it. What you need for iBGP side is pub/sub message bus to get syslog no=
tifications to selected </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><fon=
t face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">nodes. For eBGP (when SRv6 goes bey=
ing single administrative boundary) use of Operational </font></pre><pre cl=
ass=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bo=
ttom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">mess=
age is something you may reconsider. </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpa=
ge" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre =
class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-=
bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">*C=
* </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;ma=
rgin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"arial, helve=
tica, sans-serif"><br></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font =
face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">If you however still would like to co=
ntinue using new message and load BGP to carry filtered syslog </font></pre=
><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><f=
ont face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-si=
ze:13.3333px">or effectively selected telemetry data I would recommend to i=
nstead current propagation proposal of </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-new=
page" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font color=3D"#000000" fa=
ce=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px">&qu=
ot;hop by hop like update message&quot; make it to travel over targeted sho=
rt lived TCP sessions directly </span></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newp=
age" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, helvet=
ica, sans-serif"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
">between </span></font>notifier and originator of the information you are =
proposing to carry. Is this a good idea to still </font></pre><pre class=3D=
"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"ar=
ial, helvetica, sans-serif">call it BGP .. maybe yes .. maybe no. But this =
is what you really need here rather then going back </font></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D=
"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">via RRs and hitting 100s of routers which wo=
uld have to parse new message only to ignore it and </font></pre><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D=
"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">propagate further. How far .. as indicated a=
bove it is currently undefined.  </font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" =
style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-ne=
wpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif">Kind regards,</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" s=
tyle=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, s=
ans-serif">Robert.</font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin=
-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetic=
a, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></pre>=
<pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px"><br></span></font></pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" st=
yle=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 2:57 AM, K=
ausik Majumdar (kmajumda) <span dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans=
-serif">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">kmajumd=
a@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wro=
te:</span><br></pre></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_8784521172464833363WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hello Robert,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for providing the pointer on the BGP =
Operation Message Draft. We looked through it. In this draft, Operational m=
essage is defined to carry different types
 of Operational TLVs like: ADVISE, STATE, DUMP and CONTROL and trying to pr=
ovide network operational data between the BGP nodes.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The draft we proposed has a different purpos=
e. It doesn=E2=80=99t exchange BGP operational data between the BGP nodes. =
Rather it defines on how to send BGP feedback information
 for a prefix to notify the network inconsistency to the BGP originator. Th=
e current use cases are in the BGP Segment Routing application as described=
 in the draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks &amp; regards<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:cali=
bri,sans-serif"> <a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rra=
szuk@gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">rraszuk@gmail.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 21, 2017 3:30 PM<span class=3D"gmail-"><br>
<b>To:</b> Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cisco.=
com" target=3D"_blank">kmajumda@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
</span><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spri=
ng@ietf.org</a>; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kdeevi@cisco.=
com" target=3D"_blank">kdeevi@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [spring] FW: New Version Notification for draft-deevima=
jumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-feedback-00.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail-h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hello K=
ausik,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Are you=
 aware about similar attempts in the past ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">For sta=
rter can you elaborate if you conisdered to just add SR related information=
 to BGP Operational Message as defined before in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://to=
ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-operational-message-00" target=3D"_blank">=
https://tools.ietf.org/<wbr>html/draft-ietf-idr-<wbr>operational-message-00=
</a>
 ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Kind re=
gards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">Dave, R=
obert &amp; Rob.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM, Kausik Majumdar (k=
majumda) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">kmajum=
da@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
We have submitted the below draft &quot;draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp=
-feedback&quot; to describe the framework for BGP Feedback message in Segme=
nt Routing to notify the inconsistency in the network. Please review and pr=
ovide valuable feedback.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">interne=
t-drafts@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.<wbr>org</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 12:35 PM<br>
To: Kausik Majumdar (kmajumda) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kmajumda@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">kmajumda@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:kdeevi@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">kdeevi@cisco.com</a>&gt;;=
 Krishna Deevi (kdeevi) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kdeevi@cisco.com" target=3D"_=
blank">kdeevi@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-f=
eedback-00.txt<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-feedback-00.txt<b=
r>
has been successfully submitted by Kausik Majumdar and posted to the IETF r=
epository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<w=
br>bgp-feedback<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Framework for BGP Feedback Messa=
ge In Segment Routing<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2017-04-21<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 12<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00.txt" target=
=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/internet-<wbr>drafts/draft-deevimajumdar-<wbr>spring-b=
gp-feedback-00.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback/" target=3D"_blank">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/draft-deevimajumdar-<wbr>spring-bgp-feedba=
ck/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00" target=3D"_blank">https://tools=
.ietf.org/html/<wbr>draft-deevimajumdar-spring-<wbr>bgp-feedback-00</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-deevimajumdar-spring-bgp-feedback-00" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/html/draft-deevimajumdar-<wbr>spring-bgp=
-feedback-00</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In support of Segment Routing(SR), routing protocols advertise=
 a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0variety of identifiers used to define the segments that direct=
 packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0forwarding.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In cases where the information advertised by a given protocol<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0instance is either internally inconsistent or conflicts with<b=
r>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0advertisements from another protocol instance a means of notif=
ying<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the originator about the inconsistency is required.=C2=A0 This=
 document<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defines a generic mechanism to notify the BGP originator about=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0inconsistency in the network.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at
<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
spring mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:spring@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">spring@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring" target=3D"_blank">=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/spring</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a114f5cce3f028a054dbc1b29--


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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: rtg-ads@ietf.org
Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases.all@ietf.org, spring@ietf.org
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Subject: [spring] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08
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Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft.
The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related
drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and
sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide
assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing
Directorate, please see
​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it
would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF
Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through
discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08
Reviewer: Lou Berger
Review Date: April 24
Intended Status: Informational

Summary:

    I have some minor comments about this document that I think would be
good, but not necessary, to be resolved before publication.

Comments:

This document is concise and clear.  I only have minor/nit level issues
that could be addressed before publication, but I don't think it
critical as the document is being published as Informational.

Major Issues:

	No major issues found.

Minor Issues:

- Section 2 mentions reversion, while sections 3 and 4 do not.
  This leaves reversion requirements open to interpretation.
  I suggest explicitly stating if reversion is a required
  option or not in sections 3 and 4 as well.

- Section 2 mentions 1:1 style path protection.  Past/other work
  on protection also allowed for / uses 1+1 style protection.  Is
  1+1 intentionally omitted? If not, I suggest allowing for it.

Nits:

>   referred to as local protection techniques or Fast Reroute
>   techniques.

References should be provided for each technique.

>    It is essential that the primary and backup path benefit from an end-
>    to-end liveness monitoring/verification.  The method and mechanisms
>    that provide such liveness check are outside the scope of this
>    document.

Given the importance of liveness monitoring, I think it would be worth
mentioned an example of such.

That's it!
Lou


From nobody Thu Apr 27 16:36:07 2017
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Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking of the IETF.

        Title           : Segment Routing Conflict Resolution
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Peter Psenak
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Martin Pilka
	Filename        : draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2017-04-27

Abstract:
   In support of Segment Routing (SR) routing protocols advertise a
   variety of identifiers used to define the segments which direct
   forwarding of packets.  In cases where the information advertised by
   a given protocol instance is either internally inconsistent or
   conflicts with advertisements from another protocol instance a means
   of achieving consistent forwarding behavior in the network is
   required.  This document defines the policies used to resolve these
   occurrences.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Apr 27 16:42:28 2017
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>, "i-d-announce@ietf.org" <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03.txt
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Folks -

V2 of the draft was set to expire in 2 days - this is simply a refresh with=
 no content changes.

A new version with content changes is being worked on - expect to see that =
published in the next few weeks.

   Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: spring [mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-
> drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:36 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: spring@ietf.org
> Subject: [spring] I-D Action: draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03.tx=
t
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking of t=
he
> IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Segment Routing Conflict Resolution
>         Authors         : Les Ginsberg
>                           Peter Psenak
>                           Stefano Previdi
>                           Martin Pilka
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 17
> 	Date            : 2017-04-27
>=20
> Abstract:
>    In support of Segment Routing (SR) routing protocols advertise a
>    variety of identifiers used to define the segments which direct
>    forwarding of packets.  In cases where the information advertised by
>    a given protocol instance is either internally inconsistent or
>    conflicts with advertisements from another protocol instance a means
>    of achieving consistent forwarding behavior in the network is
>    required.  This document defines the policies used to resolve these
>    occurrences.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution-03
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-conflict-resoluti=
on-03
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-spring-conflict-resolution=
-03
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
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> _______________________________________________
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From: "Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)" <sprevidi@cisco.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
CC: "rtg-ads@ietf.org" <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases.all@ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>
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From nobody Sun Apr 30 19:03:29 2017
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Subject: [spring] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08
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Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
Review result: Ready with Issues

Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at
<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.

Document: draft-ietf-spring-resiliency-use-cases-08.txt
Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
Review Date: 2017-05-01
IETF LC End Date: 2017-05-04
IESG Telechat date:  

Summary: Ready with issues
--------

Comment:
--------

I wonder about the value to the community of publishing use cases and
requirements late in the standards process. They clearly have value
while designing solutions, but do they really have archival value,
since
RFC7855 was published a year ago? (An alternative approach to use
case
documents is to structure them as example applications to validate
the
protocol design, but that would be a major rewrite.)

Major issue: 
------------

I agree with the AD review dated 2017-04-20; if we publish a use case
document of this kind, it should be historically consistent.

Minor issue:
------------

The text of section 3 doesn't explain what requirements for SPRING it
generates. Really it just describes what any IGP will do anyway.
How does that impact SPRING? If there is no impact, please say so!

The other sections are quite clear on this aspect.


