From nobody Thu Jul 2 13:54:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39171A00C0 for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2015 13:54:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_ABOUTYOU=0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PJqOMJRxHHAx for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2015 13:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f169.google.com (mail-pd0-f169.google.com [209.85.192.169]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F23F81A00BF for ; Thu, 2 Jul 2015 13:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdbci14 with SMTP id ci14so50873422pdb.2 for ; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 13:54:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4xbP0ToXdg7co6MLdylQFFBJJ1BzC9HBz2QlDqArOFk=; b=P+iijbYXpw8vqdgBGVUQeqaW5QXwaQCUAu3gwOaiL4gfWOf9X3JrfsyDP5Wo5qFNut QN2BQseaT2u5CEBZotLlAV1kbF7BNXo0V7Y7rtFgyiOWlJGVENp6S+Wl4dPaHhEDYIgu fqDq7uHlH+/eDNCkoj78eU5B/S+Df7mKKPjjo4zmDIVLu+iKEwuwH18Fdh5euf753Ah/ Wq2Mt739F5hlsLP5nH6IZmCwdP6uR43a7l/kfxKusxBUUvKkzdtw/SvlduuHS3/Mq8Pe YpJXQnHHEzcUkw0p6faNIoT+VDecRgEWeq57fHIOzgPhaLzK7+a9/IEDBe+/WKC/BctP tSjw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmNpJqV+Ag/KU4ll//dT6DSX8Xj5KJ+raDuIxmZVL4Py6wfRZABE65GP0CGSOaqtjyxhzSu X-Received: by 10.68.129.38 with SMTP id nt6mr69934243pbb.30.1435870479606; Thu, 02 Jul 2015 13:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ho10sm6652276pbc.27.2015.07.02.13.54.37 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jul 2015 13:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5595A50B.1030409@mozilla.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 13:54:35 -0700 From: Thomas Daede User-Agent: http://a.pomf.se/cszdno.opus MIME-Version: 1.0 To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 20:54:42 -0000 First of all, thank you for submitting this draft! I will be the one working on merging any remaining parts of draft-moffitt-netvc-requirements-00 into your draft. I have some comments about your draft, organized by section. 2.1. Internet Protocol Television (IPTV) I don't think either error robustness or temporal scalability are necessary here. This sort of content is usually delivered over a reliable network with high latency, like TCP. Also, I would really like to not support interlacing. I would suggest removing the interlaced formats and recommending a deinterlacer be used before encoding. 2.2. Video conferencing I would suggest dropping all of the CIF/SIF/nonsquare pixel formats. 480p and 360p could replace them. 2.3. Video sharing So the main difference between 2.3 and 2.1 seems to be the content source. I would suggest replacing section 2.1 with 2.3 entirely. 2.4. Screencasting It should probably be made clear that these are input formats, but not necessarily what the encoder will run at. I would expect a reasonable encoder to convert RGB to YCbCr or YCgCo internally. In addition, high frame drop is really common for screencasting, for effective frame rates of 15fps or less. 2.5. Game streaming Why is this the only category that requires resolution scalability? 3.1. Basic requirements Is the intent that all decoders should support decoding 8 and 10 bit bitstreams? Also, maybe swap 4:2:2 with 4:4:4, as 4:2:2 isn't in any of the usecases mentioned earlier. 4.1. Compression performance evaluation Are you suggesting running all of the codecs in CBR mode? I don't think this makes sense for many of the applications mentioned earlier. In addition, you are going to need to specify CBR buffer sizes, etc. The equation you give seems to give the rate over the whole file, which I would normally consider VBR. Also, I'm not sure how much of this belongs in this draft versus the testing draft. From nobody Fri Jul 3 07:37:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F7B1A1A00 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.29 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_ABOUTYOU=0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyQVanLuNLwe for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 07:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la.cbs.com (mail-la.cbs.com [192.238.125.250]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D7981A0AC8 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 07:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown (HELO ED1PWISTMSXHC01.cbs.ad.cbs.net) ([10.149.32.80]) by smtprelay.cbs.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2015 10:37:34 -0400 Received: from ED1PWISTMSXMB06.cbs.ad.cbs.net ([169.254.12.159]) by ED1PWISTMSXHC01.cbs.ad.cbs.net ([10.149.32.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 10:37:33 -0400 From: "Coppa, Greg" To: Thomas Daede , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 Thread-Index: AQHQtQlVkDiKDvvN7EKjDm6Pdz0HWp3JzB8N Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:37:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108@ED1PWISTMSXMB06.cbs.ad.cbs.net> References: <5595A50B.1030409@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <5595A50B.1030409@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [68.173.9.71] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108ED1PWISTMSXMB06_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 14:37:37 -0000 --_000_3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108ED1PWISTMSXMB06_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All - With regard to Section 2.1 Internet Protocol Television (IPTV) and Table 1.= I note that the use case states "Typical content used in this application = is movies, cartoons, series, TV shows, etc." Table 1 lists 1080p at 24, 50 and 60 fps, and while these resolution/frame = rates may be used they do not represent typical content formats that a US B= roadcaster (e.g. CBS) delivers; a very typical format for the typical conte= nt types noted is 1080i at 59.94 fields per second (29.97 frames per second= ) and I suggest that this be added to Table 1 as a typically delivered cont= ent type. I'd also point out that 2160p @ 30 may be used in limited cases however the= frame rate is too low for most content (particularly Sports) and that at t= he resolution of 2160p, 59.94 frames per second is a more realistic and nec= essary use case. I suggest that this also be added to Table 1. greg ________________________________________ From: video-codec [video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Thomas Daede = [tdaede@mozilla.com] Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:54 PM To: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 First of all, thank you for submitting this draft! I will be the one working on merging any remaining parts of draft-moffitt-netvc-requirements-00 into your draft. I have some comments about your draft, organized by section. 2.1. Internet Protocol Television (IPTV) I don't think either error robustness or temporal scalability are necessary here. This sort of content is usually delivered over a reliable network with high latency, like TCP. Also, I would really like to not support interlacing. I would suggest removing the interlaced formats and recommending a deinterlacer be used before encoding. 2.2. Video conferencing I would suggest dropping all of the CIF/SIF/nonsquare pixel formats. 480p and 360p could replace them. 2.3. Video sharing So the main difference between 2.3 and 2.1 seems to be the content source. I would suggest replacing section 2.1 with 2.3 entirely. 2.4. Screencasting It should probably be made clear that these are input formats, but not necessarily what the encoder will run at. I would expect a reasonable encoder to convert RGB to YCbCr or YCgCo internally. In addition, high frame drop is really common for screencasting, for effective frame rates of 15fps or less. 2.5. Game streaming Why is this the only category that requires resolution scalability? 3.1. Basic requirements Is the intent that all decoders should support decoding 8 and 10 bit bitstreams? Also, maybe swap 4:2:2 with 4:4:4, as 4:2:2 isn't in any of the usecases mentioned earlier. 4.1. Compression performance evaluation Are you suggesting running all of the codecs in CBR mode? I don't think this makes sense for many of the applications mentioned earlier. In addition, you are going to need to specify CBR buffer sizes, etc. The equation you give seems to give the rate over the whole file, which I would normally consider VBR. Also, I'm not sure how much of this belongs in this draft versus the testing draft. _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec --_000_3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108ED1PWISTMSXMB06_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All -

With regard to Section 2.1 Internet Protocol Television (IPTV) and Table 1.= I note that the use case states "Typical content used in this = application is movies, cartoons, series, TV shows, etc." 

Table 1 lists 1080p at 24, 50 and 60 fps, and while these resolution/f= rame rates may be used they do not represent typical content formats t= hat a US Broadcaster (e.g. CBS) delivers; a very typical format f= or the typical content types noted is 1080i at 59.94 fields per second (29.97 frames per second) and I suggest that this = be added to Table 1 as a typically delivered content type.

I'd also point out that 2160p @ 30 may be used in limited cases howeve= r the frame rate is too low for most content (particularly Sports) and that= at the resolution of 2160p, 59.94 frames per second is a more realistic an= d necessary use case. I suggest that this also be added to Table 1.

greg
________________________________________
From: video-codec [video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Thomas Daede = [tdaede@mozilla.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 4:54 PM
To: video-codec@ietf.org
Subject: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00

First of all, thank you for submitting this draft! I will be the one
working on merging any remaining parts of
draft-moffitt-netvc-requirements-00 into your draft.

I have some comments about your draft, organized by section.

2.1. Internet Protocol Television (IPTV)

I don't think either error robustness or temporal scalability are
necessary here. This sort of content is usually delivered over a
reliable network with high latency, like TCP.

Also, I would really like to not support interlacing. I would suggest
removing the interlaced formats and recommending a deinterlacer be used
before encoding.

2.2. Video conferencing

I would suggest dropping all of the CIF/SIF/nonsquare pixel formats.
480p and 360p could replace them.

2.3. Video sharing

So the main difference between 2.3 and 2.1 seems to be the content
source. I would suggest replacing section 2.1 with 2.3 entirely.

2.4. Screencasting

It should probably be made clear that these are input formats, but not
necessarily what the encoder will run at. I would expect a reasonable
encoder to convert RGB to YCbCr or YCgCo internally. In addition, high
frame drop is really common for screencasting, for effective frame rates of 15fps or less.

2.5. Game streaming

Why is this the only category that requires resolution scalability?

3.1. Basic requirements

Is the intent that all decoders should support decoding 8 and 10 bit
bitstreams? Also, maybe swap 4:2:2 with 4:4:4, as 4:2:2 isn't in any of
the usecases mentioned earlier.

4.1. Compression performance evaluation

Are you suggesting running all of the codecs in CBR mode? I don't think
this makes sense for many of the applications mentioned earlier. In
addition, you are going to need to specify CBR buffer sizes, etc. The
equation you give seems to give the rate over the whole file, which I
would normally consider VBR.
Also, I'm not sure how much of this belongs in this draft versus the
testing draft.

_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec
--_000_3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108ED1PWISTMSXMB06_-- From nobody Fri Jul 3 11:59:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946131A1C02 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:59:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y9yjV26pViM7 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f45.google.com (mail-pa0-f45.google.com [209.85.220.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B2661A1BFF for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pabvl15 with SMTP id vl15so60791191pab.1 for ; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Eh4BYmhMsAr7hc7W163znrsGi/gE2htzi3BVhaLDf3k=; b=ALB5ORFxYO4Bc2ZjnVduAf8goC+qBAG3QE+/QfXwJHZ68/mFmqBsE0ALJ2J2k8QlW5 YksNGd15tKEL0nnxD5JSx1An85dF7pgz1OtBBhAmCgeQFDigUJE0sQlyCQnWeheAw89R PgPttyYH57elgCMG4wKbzAbzJwZnfy+e5A1ZXzUx6qDq5WZroYTShmJNMDizKve/uTs8 U1YCMoqZpO5eFB8ecNK2y903EYQskZ2o4TkjbZkuUSrQesD6ZNJ88Uwewc7NEY/ogrgh QknR/fQvuAkxYOhltGSwwnc7c0ReLx5uuQ0dSR8ryDWOl4fJXfOGTwyCgzp08DJ8fNdN XuRw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn9dvzUhV1wivNsugAoO+6AlimOhHgk5euXYPO+TDrSw3NEBG6ep+UAnQAxvOXik4C2b2ba X-Received: by 10.68.57.226 with SMTP id l2mr60988978pbq.61.1435949993140; Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.120] ([172.56.16.234]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id l7sm9828147pbq.87.2015.07.03.11.59.50 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5596DBA5.9080301@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:59:49 -0700 From: Thomas Daede User-Agent: http://a.pomf.se/cszdno.opus MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Coppa, Greg" , "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <5595A50B.1030409@mozilla.com> <3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108@ED1PWISTMSXMB06.cbs.ad.cbs.net> In-Reply-To: <3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108@ED1PWISTMSXMB06.cbs.ad.cbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 18:59:55 -0000 On 07/03/2015 07:37 AM, Coppa, Greg wrote: > Table 1 lists 1080p at 24, 50 and 60 fps, and while these > resolution/frame rates may be used they do not represent typical content > formats that a US Broadcaster (e.g. CBS) delivers; a very typical format > for the typical content types noted is 1080i at 59.94 fields per second > (29.97 frames per second) and I suggest that this be added to Table 1 as > a typically delivered content type. > We should explicitly specify whether the tables are for input content or for the actual encoding and output format. e.g. I would expect a deinterlacer or IVTC to be applied before encoding content if necessary. The same problem happens with screencasting, which frequently uses way lower framerates than the screen refresh rate (60-144fps). From nobody Fri Jul 3 12:22:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CD71A6F33 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:22:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.723 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3tVNmcLS9Cyi for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 375091A6F30 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03139C0971 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 19:22:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3F6S696GpHFe for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 19:22:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.17.0.26] (50-78-100-113-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.78.100.113]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CA160C045F for ; Fri, 3 Jul 2015 19:22:00 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <5596E0D8.8010400@xiph.org> Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 12:22:00 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <5595A50B.1030409@mozilla.com> <3569E2579E6AF14AAD30C8E74C9F9F8867F59108@ED1PWISTMSXMB06.cbs.ad.cbs.net> <5596DBA5.9080301@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <5596DBA5.9080301@mozilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Comments on draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2015 19:22:03 -0000 Thomas Daede wrote: > We should explicitly specify whether the tables are for input content or > for the actual encoding and output format. e.g. I would expect a > deinterlacer or IVTC to be applied before encoding content if necessary. > The same problem happens with screencasting, which frequently uses way > lower framerates than the screen refresh rate (60-144fps). For non-trivial encoder conversions like changing interlacing or framerates, you'll want to be very explicit about how you'll measure quality. From nobody Mon Jul 6 14:07:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DA21B328C for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:07:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xHaOrdUFefpw for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3BF71B328B for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=998; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436216857; x=1437426457; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=G/+7ope9fMBZgfVul6XD2yqjgehnbaEGK4vIx6tHmIA=; b=mKK0pZcVtIWtlanM/YUwyjvo/KRxB5clhX7oo4F40ndfz6ny1YnTOko3 aNihjPqtmAv9lDVueSOZ3Ud8IXgjrENaE8vELgW9T6mIdm6qkes3Ki3EQ nqr8OjTUSoiG/InOZSmI/1bnX0MFBaP5mrvvdkJRnMV86IkeZT1EiOCsc Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0C9AwBS7ZpV/5hdJa1cgxJUYAa9VwmBboV3AoE7OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEJAEBBDo/EAIBCDYQMiUCBA4FiC4Ny10BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBItLhQYHhCsBBJQVAYtngTqEFY8qg10mg3tvgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,417,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="13084247" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jul 2015 21:07:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t66L7bg5000935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:07:37 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.240]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 16:07:36 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Preliminary Agenda Thread-Index: AQHQuC/IJhA0e8FIYki197hev2ZkZg== Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 21:07:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55931FBE.5050609@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <55931FBE.5050609@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [64.100.32.216] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Adam Roach Subject: Re: [video-codec] Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:07:39 -0000 The netvc agenda has been updated with links to all drafts. Thanks to all authors for submitting their drafts and updates. https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/agenda/agenda-93-netvc If you would like to request agenda time and have not already done so, please submit your request (topic/draft and time requested) to netvc-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Thursday July 9. Thanks, Mo (as chair) On 6/30/15, 7:01 PM, Adam Roach wrote: [as chair] We now have a preliminary agenda up for NETVC at the upcoming meeting in Prague: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/agenda/agenda-93-netvc Note that the mentioned Thor document isn't yet in the repository, but we expect it to be available prior to the document deadline on Monday. Also, while the requirements slot mentions only draft-filippov-netvc-requirements, the plan is to incorporate the contents of draft-moffitt-netvc-requirements into that document prior to the document deadline as well. /a From nobody Mon Jul 6 15:32:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC98B1A86EA for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 15:32:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E8DZx3pbrhXs for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 15:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E28C41A212D for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 15:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C90C1604 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 22:32:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJ78H5KMbltt for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 22:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.252.26.16] (corp.mtv2.mozilla.com [63.245.221.32]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 60ED6C05FE for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 22:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <559B01F2.3060204@xiph.org> Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:32:18 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <20150706222840.25069.32034.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150706222840.25069.32034.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20150706222840.25069.32034.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 22:32:23 -0000 I submitted the following draft documenting Daala's variable-block-size OBMC scheme. This is based on the SPIE paper I presented at a conference in March, , but updated with recent improvements. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc-00.txt Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 15:28:40 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Timothy Terriberry , Timothy B. Terriberry A new version of I-D, draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Timothy B. Terriberry and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc Revision: 00 Title: Overlapped Block Motion Compensation for NETVC Document date: 2015-07-06 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 16 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-terriberry-netvc-obmc-00 Abstract: This document proposes a scheme for overlapped block motion compensation that could be incorporated into a next-generation video codec. The scheme described is that currently used by Xiph's Daala project, which supports variable block sizes without introducing any discontinuities at block boundaries. This makes the scheme suitable for use with lapped transforms or other techniques where encoding such discontinuities is expensive. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon Jul 6 17:05:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED341A21AB for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4TdXAeTikBXc for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 17:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f43.google.com (mail-qg0-f43.google.com [209.85.192.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E7C1A1A6A for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 17:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgef3 with SMTP id f3so27178001qge.0 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MRzlwBXfE4WaoyvqD9Tknv079I8WJvbF56KrAH6ZZg4=; b=cB6ylA7Iot/YpeY2YraTG/mIfX2XKITj6/VeGlykMibXmOPSMVL/71ipCiD/dzo+Ni 29yeSqgWJefSrQbvEZm+QTmy8svmJcz/opwYJQYYouXLqL68TftB3Twix6cNOyjBmXqL tJqHHSn6MKkOj1wNIS/JHJqUgETpoTRUxJ2v9jYV8qbjn6QYRXTcppV1psRboepWZooQ RvJIIq5wjFkIP6jvv8hAc0hhZT7FviRhn+jrA3AMEoXwO5Ci+ZQRGPl5jwMNHXE0Pcbm YV9sViHy6LS9hu7dLGIINGqn+Al0/owRs0pLhm6Ul24DKEXDFRCLShxACu9jMZN7nm8R OF2A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQktCDOF2fQ6IYGjvP5uQIsVda5jBSOZh5oA8ArN/FtFqJvajGHYFaDcjHG0FcRgMdpZ6wcw X-Received: by 10.55.22.161 with SMTP id 33mr2535643qkw.11.1436227535748; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 202sm10166461qhy.1.2015.07.06.17.05.34 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jul 2015 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) References: <20150706235757.28545.68675.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: video-codec@ietf.org From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20150706235757.28545.68675.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <559B17CD.2020905@jmvalin.ca> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:05:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20150706235757.28545.68675.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 00:05:38 -0000 I submitted the following draft discussing screencasting applications and proposing one technique to improve handling of anti-aliased text in those applications. Cheers, Jean-Marc -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01.txt Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 16:57:57 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Jean-Marc Valin , Jean-Marc Valin A new version of I-D, draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Jean-Marc Valin and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-valin-netvc-l1tw Revision: 01 Title: Screencasting Considerations and L1-Tree Wavelet Coding Document date: 2015-07-06 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 5 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-valin-netvc-l1tw/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-valin-netvc-l1tw-01 Abstract: This document proposes a screencasting encoding mode based on the Haar wavelet transform and L1-tree wavelet (L1TW) coding. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Jul 7 11:21:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B921A1A76 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:21:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZTenKdU9W3f for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f174.google.com (mail-pd0-f174.google.com [209.85.192.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C95DA1A1A6F for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pddu5 with SMTP id u5so42534033pdd.3 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:21:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=81kJ5p50yrSe+eLlClryI+1+nk3Alec9yszPM0EM6KI=; b=aOd7W+NmbuaLjQptyxbK4HyURzE6eYaBGOuOLFVfGcua9Ie+NsbpeNwal0gLzzh1FN KKgnof47WO8B+Kq8jjFfixLBRHXpu0mnjgKAFjIsJQq54sQavi/qSVPSqyRkWPHWF87b D9Nfrux3+gSen5v1Lsb6eUPtiCsP9IP2DGgpOhDSlt5kwbdcnTuUKEOpVKhALrkJKO/n 5UBtmEWGo0IbL8Qga5apOLnglzyW4AMDG1FFPBB9cvDIBNl/UJ9Dp55gEaPsXrquI5k+ vEks6VDYXkJXJBS3NBFso3rNgb2h0H9deJpHU+CcWnJihtMHEcr2bDow8jvdU26I4hGt IhpA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnFFFU/IZdOPObBAPZozlPJW+YNTwAZV3+hw/Wy3S9xiRNr8pMXvJspFnlos8CLuzjCwr4V X-Received: by 10.70.43.72 with SMTP id u8mr11546582pdl.33.1436293263228; Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pp6sm22562582pbb.79.2015.07.07.11.21.01 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:21:01 -0700 (PDT) To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Thomas Daede X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:20:59 -0700 User-Agent: http://a.pomf.se/cszdno.opus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:21:15 -0000 I don't think we should support interlacing in the netvc bitstream. I bring this up because draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 still specifies some interlaced modes. Arguments against interlacing: - Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, libvpx has never supported interlacing. - Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place to offload complexity - There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage If anyone has counterarguments, I'd like to hear them. From nobody Tue Jul 7 11:29:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B85E1A1B15 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:29:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ar7MJmu7zYbl for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53D951A0125 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11AF7C0346 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 18:29:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z8W9sRB0zdO5 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 18:29:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.252.28.57] (corp.mtv2.mozilla.com [63.245.221.32]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F29B2BFFBB for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 18:29:35 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:29:35 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:29:38 -0000 Thomas Daede wrote: > Arguments against interlacing: > - Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, > libvpx has never supported interlacing. > - Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place > to offload complexity > - There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to avoid. From nobody Tue Jul 7 11:43:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98A01A1B85 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4-AoFyFylA0P for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from espn5.mailsec1.batblue.net (espn5.mailsec1.batblue.net [74.123.200.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 531741A1B76 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXHUBP11C02V.corp.espn.pvt ([192.234.2.236]) by espn5.mailsec1.batblue.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t67Ih3u0022746; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:43:03 -0400 Received: from EXMDAGP11C01VC6.corp.espn.pvt ([169.254.6.85]) by EXHUBP11C02V.corp.espn.pvt ([10.75.64.205]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:42:28 -0400 From: "Krupiczka, Andrew" To: "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Interlacing support Thread-Index: AQHQuOGlqlxw+o4QPk2oof+IDqZZk53QlwqA//+9k3A= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 18:43:02 +0000 Message-ID: <7E78635F75F78C41ADC5ADAAD658319324B01E14@EXMDAGP11C01VC6.corp.espn.pvt> References: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.22.131.10] x-exclaimer-md-config: 8a320cb5-50ce-4a00-b4e5-c5b1c6c1625e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:43:07 -0000 Hello everyone, Yes, unlike H.264 the HEVC doesn't provide any encoding tools specific to t= he interlaced format sourced content. Not to say, the 1080i format is well alive and still very important for som= e broadcasters and markets due to operational distribution infrastructure. Even, if the interlaced format content is to be encoded it can always be de= interlaced prior and as noted no need for re-interlacing it back for displa= y devices. Best regards,=20 Andrew -----Original Message----- From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timoth= y B. Terriberry Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 2:30 PM To: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support Thomas Daede wrote: > Arguments against interlacing: > - Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped=20 > MBAFF, libvpx has never supported interlacing. > - Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier=20 > place to offload complexity > - There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to avo= id. _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From nobody Tue Jul 7 14:00:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD2BD1AC44B for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:00:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cy-FTFYy4pFF for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f175.google.com (mail-wi0-f175.google.com [209.85.212.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A0661AC3B1 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wifm2 with SMTP id m2so71137734wif.1 for ; Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=M/Ut4vn3SLbhvHSBqEFSjpTWNafFbIl/Q9lcZbXH8+c=; b=dJSIWEdUassoL207mesUl7m9KOYS8eIS40J5DXO6Z9YthefiogWQoFGsftbhLdBrbV 1SoJo25Rk0VHa5j/mpP2A4lPCisyY8s/NLJS+tccfQQUdf7fsNOujn/nnkdorSNs2X3d pOcTe3m5+JGcRu/YseJB8MbD1LYV8JQvwSQkWeY+l6t9L6ztuw1DWEsX4wk9jbXeRm+r gX3pmVyi8BKw5zOi62w6M9w77QyOn+7lFbLjRohwM7Pv59atREEl3on9mjgUd8F5vPSk HSxnHSP9L8j8FowA3X8hx/ybELExTd14s8tQKf6EGUA0daxsG2G4IxhWPbX4LueJqFMC /lrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmfLBsRk3zC3bJ+OTjxuyoyjBIMttT0UXanXmZpqhoe4vs+dBxj9RfgQ3Y6GPUhl+Zlb/8D MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.9.75 with SMTP id x11mr64185830wia.80.1436302814081; Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.243.106 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.243.106 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org> References: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: From: Mohammed Raad To: "Timothy B. Terriberry" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c241360609e2051a4f4f5b Archived-At: Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 21:00:20 -0000 --001a11c241360609e2051a4f4f5b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I agree, I don't see a reason for supporting interlace in future video codecs. On 7 Jul 2015 21:29, "Timothy B. Terriberry" wrote: > Thomas Daede wrote: > >> Arguments against interlacing: >> - Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, >> libvpx has never supported interlacing. >> - Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place >> to offload complexity >> - There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage >> > > I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to > avoid. > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > --001a11c241360609e2051a4f4f5b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree, I don't see a reason for supporting interlace i= n future video codecs.

On 7 Jul 2015 21:29, "Timothy B. Terriberry= " <tterribe@xiph.org> w= rote:
Thomas Daede w= rote:
Arguments against interlacing:
- Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, libvpx has never supported interlacing.
- Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place to offload complexity
- There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage

I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to= avoid.

_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec
--001a11c241360609e2051a4f4f5b-- From nobody Tue Jul 7 14:03:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9741ACD32 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:03:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VvTKRG2WGXxH for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A72B1ACC8C for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C377FC0521 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:03:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GFWBpqzdkyf7 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:03:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.252.28.57] (corp.mtv2.mozilla.com [63.245.221.32]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0A67BFF57 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:03:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:03:38 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 21:03:40 -0000 In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed to use subtractions instead of additions, right? A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=2,level>1), right? From nobody Tue Jul 7 14:55:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F18D1AD36E for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:55:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nasLftKhqzIx for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 832F41AD35B for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:55:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3502; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436306150; x=1437515750; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=v8yLTiDXj9NVQJynrYj/9qViGVCROCIeqN9G4XLU4qs=; b=K0hlCQZJyfBmkWgL9qM7V7naAtLTJExLEn0PT/GKQx+ii97Lj9eENQT/ qI+lI1dsjmETnemJjP8gpLWMIBZ0/KH3RAQ62q3FSr3TNN4jHIBE00xUE bx7upg/QhGgPRIX7pbW68+MYKvycAbgAmUAdw6fGK4P5cYc/iVDVghXvA A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CdAwCPSpxV/4kNJK1bgxJUYL1tCYFlAQmFdwKBZTgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCQBAQQBAQFrCxACAQgEOwcnCxQRAgQOBYguDc0DAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSLS4UCBAeDF4EUBZQYAYtomFomg3tvgksBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,426,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217";a="166373037" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Jul 2015 21:55:49 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t67LtnaH017795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:55:49 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.240]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 16:55:49 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: Mohammed Raad Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Interlacing support Thread-Index: AQHQuPfzEQSvAgqQPUCb1DF1ggxWlJ3QjW7i Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:55:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559C188B.8090604@mozilla.com> <559C1A8F.5060706@xiph.org>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B0F23405A043414C8174FE8B239DF73Aciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" , "Timothy B. Terriberry" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 21:55:54 -0000 --_000_B0F23405A043414C8174FE8B239DF73Aciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 On Jul 7, 2015, at 5:00 PM, Mohammed Raad > wrote: I agree, I don't see a reason for supporting interlace in future video code= cs. On 7 Jul 2015 21:29, "Timothy B. Terriberry" > wrote: Thomas Daede wrote: Arguments against interlacing: - Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, libvpx has never supported interlacing. - Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place to offload complexity - There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to avo= id. _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec --_000_B0F23405A043414C8174FE8B239DF73Aciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1

I agree, I don't see a reason for supporting interlace in fu= ture video codecs.

On 7 Jul 2015 21:29, "Timothy B. Terriberry= " <tterribe@xiph.org> w= rote:
Thomas Daede wrote:
Arguments against interlacing:
- Requires extra features to encode efficiently. HEVC has dropped MBAFF, libvpx has never supported interlacing.
- Moves deinterlacer complexity to the encoder, which is an easier place to offload complexity
- There are no internet-connected interlaced displays in common usage

I'll add one more: brings into play a large amount of additional IPR to avo= id.

_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.= org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec
--_000_B0F23405A043414C8174FE8B239DF73Aciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Jul 7 23:24:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D93C1B3137 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:24:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwkrA-eMxulN for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C14C1B3135 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYM01540; Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:24:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.73) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:24:01 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.221]) by SZXEMA414-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:51 +0800 From: Filippov Alexey To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Interlacing support Thread-Index: AdC5RqbV7dM1CnH0TxSFdvLnVAQJ7Q== Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 06:23:51 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.198.51.238] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED710745705088DCszxema508mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Thomas Daede Subject: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:24:09 -0000 --_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED710745705088DCszxema508mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Mr. Daede, >I don't think we should support interlacing in the netvc bitstream. I brin= g this up because draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 still specifies some= interlaced modes. Sorry but your understanding of my document is incorrect. I included interl= aced modes into the table titled "IPTV: typical values of resolutions, fram= e-rates..." because these formats are actually used by different companies = in practice. It is confirmed by Mr. Coppa from CBS in his comment ("a very = typical format for the typical content types noted is 1080i at 59.94 fields= per second (29.97 frames per second) and I suggest that this be added to T= able 1 as a typically delivered content type."). So, I guess it would be in= correct to ignore a consumer request (I mean, for example, CBS that can pot= entially decide to use a new netvc codec ) and exclude these formats from t= he list of input sequences for testing a new codec. However, it doesn't mea= n that a codec has to support tools like MBAFF or PAFF adopted for AVC/H.26= 4. I agree that a common way to avoid dealing with interlaced formats is to= use a deinterlacer before encoding. The main disadvantage of this approach= is blurring caused by applying a low-pass filter (deinterlacer) to an inte= rlaced picture. So, it's necessary to show that deinterlacing before encodi= ng is better than using specific tools inside the codec. If anyone has coun= terarguments, I'd like to hear them. -- Best regards, Alexey Filippov --_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED710745705088DCszxema508mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Mr. Daede,

 

>I don't think we should support interlacing in t= he netvc bitstream. I bring this up because draft-filippov-netvc-requiremen= ts-01 still specifies some interlaced modes.

Sorry but your understanding of my document is incor= rect. I included interlaced modes into the table titled “IPTV: typica= l values of resolutions, frame-rates…” because these formats ar= e actually used by different companies in practice. It is confirmed by Mr. Coppa from CBS in his comment (“a very t= ypical format for the typical content types noted is 1080i at 59.94 fi= elds per second (29.97 frames per second) and I suggest that this be added = to Table 1 as a typically delivered content type.”). So, I guess it would be incorrect to ignore a consumer request (I mean, fo= r example, CBS that can potentially decide to use a new netvc codec ) and e= xclude these formats from the list of input sequences for testing a new cod= ec. However, it doesn't mean that a codec has to support tools like MBAFF or PAFF adopted for AVC/H.264. I a= gree that a common way to avoid dealing with interlaced formats is to use a= deinterlacer before encoding. The main disadvantage of this approach is bl= urring caused by applying a low-pass filter (deinterlacer) to an interlaced picture. So, it's necessary to show= that deinterlacing before encoding is better than using specific tools ins= ide the codec. If anyone has counterarguments, I'd like to hear them.<= /o:p>

 

--

Best regards,

Alexey Filippov

--_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED710745705088DCszxema508mbschi_-- From nobody Tue Jul 7 23:49:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A49D1B3171 for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IFKjWmBxT0re for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C56B1B316E for ; Tue, 7 Jul 2015 23:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BUW03892; Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:49:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.70) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 07:49:22 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.221]) by szxema411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:49:10 +0800 From: Filippov Alexey To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Interlacing support Thread-Index: AdC5SjBP+/9x3FRmRZ203T0b4EqunQ== Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 06:49:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.198.51.238] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED71074570508938szxema508mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Thomas Daede Subject: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 06:49:29 -0000 --_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED71074570508938szxema508mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By the way, the statement that HEVC/H.265 doesn't support interlaced video = is incorrect. At the JCT-VC meeting in San Jose (February 2012), after disc= ussing several possible approaches, it was decided that efficient compressi= on of interlace video could be achieved by adding an SEI message to the spe= cification without needing to change the basic design or coding tools of HE= VC/H.265 [JCTVC-H0013]. An overview of interlaced video support in HEVC/H.2= 65 can be found in http://ngcodec.com/news/2014/1/15/does-hevch265-support-= interlaced So, including low-level tools into a codec is not the only way of supporti= ng interlaced video in bitstream. -- Best regards, Alexey Filippov --_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED71074570508938szxema508mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

By the way, the statement that HEVC/H.265 doesn̵= 7;t support interlaced video is incorrect. At the JCT-VC meeting in San Jos= e (February 2012), after discussing several possible approaches, it was dec= ided that efficient compression of interlace video could be achieved by adding an SEI message to the specification with= out needing to change the basic design or coding tools of HEVC/H.265 [JCTVC= -H0013]. An overview of interlaced video support in HEVC/H.265 can be found= in http://ngcodec.com/news/2014/1/15/does-hevch265-support-interlaced

So, including low-level tools into a codec is not th= e only way  of supporting interlaced video in bitstream.

 

--

Best regards,

Alexey Filippov

--_000_A95DB243D3936149BBFA3B43ED71074570508938szxema508mbschi_-- From nobody Wed Jul 8 15:50:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401CE1A879B for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 13:36:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10HRc3-E5VJ0 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 13:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 012401A879A for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 13:36:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=772; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436387802; x=1437597402; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=LKuEjtJPK5YkGEJxUESp16jZpTAC9SxMt+LPfXWqbRA=; b=I13nTxBQMplf3ZVYuKTml+a4XCi9Io7G8m8MexHjM7Y6WNow+NGWNjDx QcTcyMXG/dtgm7OLX4Yri+JKjyjpPMQDmMyrbcIkLv6DTHEfY/Fm0U8ef 5iMGSoTdz98MPGyCWZ1po0YNbDuw1yozP4sW+EgHJpGQn/M2DYsFqVSIE g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AABQCCiZ1V/5RdJa1bgxJUYAa9P4FlCoV3AoFdOhIBAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQQBAQE3NBcEAgEIEQQBAQsUCQcnCxQJCAIEARIIiCYNziMBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBItLhFU4BoMRgRQBBJQjAaRfJoN7b4FHgQQBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,434,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="166861629" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jul 2015 20:36:41 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t68KafA9029405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:36:41 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.3.83]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 8 Jul 2015 15:36:41 -0500 From: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" To: "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 Thread-Index: AQHQuPhpsyAwiuUU1UuYiPuRb2BdX53SCXlA Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 20:36:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.84.80] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 15:50:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 20:36:43 -0000 Tim, Yes, you are right on all points. Thank you for pointing that out. Regards, Arild -----Original Message----- From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timoth= y B. Terriberry Sent: 7. juli 2015 23:04 To: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed to use= subtractions instead of additions, right? A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=3D2,level>1), right? _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From nobody Thu Jul 9 09:12:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18131B2AC6 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:12:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zPJFcqD9XfDh for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 534691B2AC2 for ; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 09:12:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1295; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1436458321; x=1437667921; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=A5NZisPfxgih9brWgiAA9Nx5ndEffeMw95QuYMjBzlI=; b=cjkayT8VI1DSHIP0nW0sC4uhpTJhTJD42sqAdL77M5gElN8TKnF2tR1r Kx/eomvm1t284kDZ8Cwc99yGfA3xjS49dp+hjtguwnPvdsmOQ7+voW4LC OXmPbzBnZPmVGYCcx4UWxqNyGPRth7kVQvVcKoshU++m3RlYG8e1z1+vO U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BIBQAwnJ5V/5hdJa1bgxJUYAa7I4FnCoV3AoFZOhIBAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQQBAQE3NBcEAgEIEQQBAR8JBycLFAkIAgQBEoguDc8SAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSLS4UNBoQlBZQtAYt/mGcmg3tvgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,441,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="166955234" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2015 16:12:00 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com [173.36.12.75]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t69GC0qt031581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Jul 2015 16:12:00 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.240]) by xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com ([173.36.12.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:12:00 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" , "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 Thread-Index: AQHQumH7/DlDmhQZ0k+oWtsAK88Lzw== Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 16:11:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [64.100.32.216] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 16:12:03 -0000 Another correction in section 9.2.6: Table 3, Index=3D2 should show abs(coeff)=3D4 and level=3D4. Figure 10, the last 0 should be removed. All corrections will be updated in a new draft version once submission reopens. Mo On 7/8/15, 4:36 PM, video-codec on behalf of Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld) wrote: Tim, Yes, you are right on all points. Thank you for pointing that out. Regards, Arild -----Original Message----- From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Timothy B. Terriberry Sent: 7. juli 2015 23:04 To: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed to use subtractions instead of additions, right? A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=3D2,level>1), right? _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From nobody Fri Jul 10 11:50:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75971A1ADF for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wwlu_GL4RE5t for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f182.google.com (mail-pd0-f182.google.com [209.85.192.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D444B1A036F for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdbqm3 with SMTP id qm3so44711608pdb.0 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=L9KiIDnQINWWwGssRsVA6nJUO7pFrOwPip1G4Lgxkso=; b=HEzDICXvZEDXbnk/HDWBCUMgI+kg20j9nM3Go/MqxDPHz5guq3RaL8wVG+Bp5x1RRG 6aOgJiaXLkOl5cx0tWMcRjmYZ2GL+wIfKp6YFTzZepU3jGcNyKnDs57lt5sYXu2WI4sJ pCQVRnahnE2oSfp8w9NPdRGkMKVejARuJh0R3i98VfGCE9qjLO6SA43nfM1F1P/dJUx+ E63Tl8U2Az4tGsPMqpcYpQMT/GH09r2a+jOkZoA8mio9nJaPHYlAujCipvprvl6x/P/A klPxR00IeF0G4tLDFHy7EmvN0bLe8FJq4SK6Qy5vBxindkOqH4V3/pDy56ZCSWTZse8x r2vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlZOm7vnOTsc5425qfu4rM0g7yyJE9g9afiXIJec7dRA/sxyMR4nOVc3JBa0OcjvAS0oB0M X-Received: by 10.70.130.161 with SMTP id of1mr45036272pdb.31.1436554237386; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:232:bd05:d9d0:db6b:e094? ([2620:101:80fc:232:bd05:d9d0:db6b:e094]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ry2sm9985367pbb.83.2015.07.10.11.50.36 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:50:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Yushin Cho In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:51:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5724D873-9CE6-4DA3-9FC9-EFC44E06EF80@mozilla.com> References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> To: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:50:41 -0000 More erratas found: In 8.1.2.=20 Delocking =E2=80=94> Deblocking In 9.2.5 is the sort =E2=80=94> is to sort > On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) = wrote: >=20 > Another correction in section 9.2.6: > Table 3, Index=3D2 should show abs(coeff)=3D4 and level=3D4. > Figure 10, the last 0 should be removed. > All corrections will be updated in a new draft version once submission > reopens. >=20 > Mo >=20 > On 7/8/15, 4:36 PM, video-codec on behalf of Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld) > wrote: >=20 > Tim, >=20 > Yes, you are right on all points. >=20 > Thank you for pointing that out. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Arild >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Timothy B. Terriberry > Sent: 7. juli 2015 23:04 > To: video-codec@ietf.org > Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 >=20 > In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed = to > use subtractions instead of additions, right? >=20 > A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. >=20 > In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=3D2,level>1), = right? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From nobody Fri Jul 10 12:01:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DF511A1ADF for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:01:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-0X3ftoFr3o for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-f179.google.com (mail-qk0-f179.google.com [209.85.220.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 326341B2A84 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qkhu186 with SMTP id u186so213229652qkh.0 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dTtTXv37HqevccY/jNb/GQhAU6wOG0EdsFRx2wRHgsQ=; b=dW4dwLthn+YgGI7Ly1iHZHu/XaFbTd+/AsUrdiC/0/Gsk0jqFiv1FJzpfpxjhe0/kZ UAG+jS1rUValObH3tqatm8o/ZEjkc+JuVDBf+XYXq4hmqeOZ4OwtXFGDK3+5YWuKR4D8 iZVBvtq9qwiptbTjCREFxDDmCn4ElWw8Sj8NhUupWbheRiYYaXU4sGzqkDFQgJUvHfPu 10C2uBGZAWvq4LwJUOmcGsL5McgpnXF5EPEy8jOxvFNQEQMhB3Ng2kAO36clLGV1TXMU vUwy72kL5xcihsR4Z0sgPk6raXdiaD2J5N50SLSWQ3MYtccIzoGbl1QK/K4p31ABM+yE fHfw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm7cXW6SzWYFT+jr9irYryJnTnJkfnOar84PMMESn+yMrUAvLBeTwgW/Mm+spNkgK4W9m6p X-Received: by 10.140.25.208 with SMTP id 74mr34301447qgt.104.1436554851450; Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 20sm5926834qkz.30.2015.07.10.12.00.50 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Jul 2015 12:00:50 -0700 (PDT) To: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" , "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" , "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> From: Jean-Marc Valin Message-ID: <55A01661.309@jmvalin.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 15:00:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 19:01:03 -0000 I see in section 4 that there are only 8 intra modes including DC, rather than 9. I didn't understand why "upright" is missing, nor what "The upright and upleft directions are exactly 45 degrees" means in that context. Can you explain? Cheers, Jean-Marc On 07/09/2015 12:11 PM, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote: > Another correction in section 9.2.6: > Table 3, Index=2 should show abs(coeff)=4 and level=4. > Figure 10, the last 0 should be removed. > All corrections will be updated in a new draft version once submission > reopens. > > Mo > > On 7/8/15, 4:36 PM, video-codec on behalf of Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld) > wrote: > > Tim, > > Yes, you are right on all points. > > Thank you for pointing that out. > > Regards, > > Arild > > -----Original Message----- > From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Timothy B. Terriberry > Sent: 7. juli 2015 23:04 > To: video-codec@ietf.org > Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 > > In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed to > use subtractions instead of additions, right? > > A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. > > In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=2,level>1), right? > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > From nobody Sat Jul 11 09:53:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635731A902F for ; 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Sat, 11 Jul 2015 11:53:06 -0500 From: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" To: Yushin Cho Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 Thread-Index: AQHQuPhpsyAwiuUU1UuYiPuRb2BdX53SCXlAgAGcX4CAAb7JAIABHVGA Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:53:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> <5724D873-9CE6-4DA3-9FC9-EFC44E06EF80@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <5724D873-9CE6-4DA3-9FC9-EFC44E06EF80@mozilla.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.70.173] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:53:08 -0000 RGVhciBZdXNoaW4sDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgcG9pbnRpbmcgb3V0IHRoZXNlIHR5cG9zLg0K DQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpBcmlsZA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTog WXVzaGluIENobyBbbWFpbHRvOnljaG9AbW96aWxsYS5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogMTAuIGp1bGkgMjAx NSAyMDo1MQ0KVG86IEFyaWxkIEZ1bGRzZXRoIChhcmlsZnVsZCkNCkNjOiB2aWRlby1jb2RlY0Bp ZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFt2aWRlby1jb2RlY10gTWlub3IgY29tbWVudHMgb24gZHJh ZnQtZnVsZHNldGgtbmV0dmMtdGhvci0wMA0KDQpNb3JlIGVycmF0YXMgZm91bmQ6DQoNCkluIDgu MS4yLiANCkRlbG9ja2luZyDigJQ+IERlYmxvY2tpbmcNCg0KSW4gOS4yLjUNCmlzIHRoZSBzb3J0 IOKAlD4gaXMgdG8gc29ydA0KDQoNCg0KPiBPbiBKdWwgOSwgMjAxNSwgYXQgOToxMSBBTSwgTW8g WmFuYXR5IChtemFuYXR5KSA8bXphbmF0eUBjaXNjby5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gQW5vdGhl ciBjb3JyZWN0aW9uIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gOS4yLjY6DQo+IFRhYmxlIDMsIEluZGV4PTIgc2hvdWxk IHNob3cgYWJzKGNvZWZmKT00IGFuZCBsZXZlbD00Lg0KPiBGaWd1cmUgMTAsIHRoZSBsYXN0IDAg c2hvdWxkIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQuDQo+IEFsbCBjb3JyZWN0aW9ucyB3aWxsIGJlIHVwZGF0ZWQgaW4g YSBuZXcgZHJhZnQgdmVyc2lvbiBvbmNlIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gDQo+IHJlb3BlbnMuDQo+IA0KPiBN bw0KPiANCj4gT24gNy84LzE1LCA0OjM2IFBNLCB2aWRlby1jb2RlYyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgQXJp bGQgRnVsZHNldGggKGFyaWxmdWxkKSANCj4gPHZpZGVvLWNvZGVjLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcg b24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGFyaWxmdWxkQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBUaW0sDQo+IA0K PiBZZXMsIHlvdSBhcmUgcmlnaHQgb24gYWxsIHBvaW50cy4NCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3Ig cG9pbnRpbmcgdGhhdCBvdXQuDQo+IA0KPiBSZWdhcmRzLA0KPiANCj4gQXJpbGQNCj4gDQo+IC0t LS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IHZpZGVvLWNvZGVjIFttYWlsdG86dmlk ZW8tY29kZWMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIA0KPiBUaW1vdGh5IEIuIFRl cnJpYmVycnkNCj4gU2VudDogNy4ganVsaSAyMDE1IDIzOjA0DQo+IFRvOiB2aWRlby1jb2RlY0Bp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbdmlkZW8tY29kZWNdIE1pbm9yIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIGRyYWZ0 LWZ1bGRzZXRoLW5ldHZjLXRob3ItMDANCj4gDQo+IEluIHNlY3Rpb24gOC4xLjEsIHN0ZXAgNCwg dGhlIGNhbGN1bGF0aW9ucyBvZiBjJyBhbmQgZCcgYXJlIHN1cHBvc2VkIA0KPiB0byB1c2Ugc3Vi dHJhY3Rpb25zIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgYWRkaXRpb25zLCByaWdodD8NCj4gDQo+IEEgc2ltaWxhciBx dWVzdGlvbiBhcHBsaWVzIHRvIHRoZSBjYWxjdWxhdGlvbiBvZiBjJyBpbiA4LjIuMSBzdGVwIDMu DQo+IA0KPiBJbiBUYWJsZSAzIGluIFNlY3Rpb24gOS4yLjYsIGluZGV4IDkgc2hvdWxkIGNvZGUg KHJ1bj0yLGxldmVsPjEpLCByaWdodD8NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IHZpZGVvLWNvZGVjIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiB2aWRl by1jb2RlY0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L3ZpZGVvLWNvZGVjDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiB2aWRlby1jb2RlYyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gdmlkZW8tY29kZWNAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby92aWRlby1jb2Rl Yw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cj4gdmlkZW8tY29kZWMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IHZpZGVvLWNvZGVjQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vdmlkZW8tY29kZWMNCg0K From nobody Sat Jul 11 09:56:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5366D1A9039 for ; 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Sat, 11 Jul 2015 11:56:40 -0500 From: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" To: Jean-Marc Valin , "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" , "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 Thread-Index: AQHQuPhpsyAwiuUU1UuYiPuRb2BdX53SCXlAgAGcX4CAAcGAgIABGwNw Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:56:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <559C3EAA.2060809@xiph.org> <55A01661.309@jmvalin.ca> In-Reply-To: <55A01661.309@jmvalin.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.70.173] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 16:56:43 -0000 For the time being, we have decided to limit the number of intra prediction= modes to 8. In our simulations, the upright mode provides less coding gain= than the other 8 modes. The quote is a typo. It should read: "The upleft direction is exactly 45 degrees" Regards, Arild -----Original Message----- From: Jean-Marc Valin [mailto:jmvalin@jmvalin.ca]=20 Sent: 10. juli 2015 21:01 To: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty); Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld); Timothy B. Terriberry; = video-codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 I see in section 4 that there are only 8 intra modes including DC, rather t= han 9. I didn't understand why "upright" is missing, nor what "The upright = and upleft directions are exactly 45 degrees" means in that context. Can yo= u explain? Cheers, Jean-Marc On 07/09/2015 12:11 PM, Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) wrote: > Another correction in section 9.2.6: > Table 3, Index=3D2 should show abs(coeff)=3D4 and level=3D4. > Figure 10, the last 0 should be removed. > All corrections will be updated in a new draft version once submission=20 > reopens. >=20 > Mo >=20 > On 7/8/15, 4:36 PM, video-codec on behalf of Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)=20 > wrote: >=20 > Tim, >=20 > Yes, you are right on all points. >=20 > Thank you for pointing that out. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Arild >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Timothy B. Terriberry > Sent: 7. juli 2015 23:04 > To: video-codec@ietf.org > Subject: [video-codec] Minor comments on draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-00 >=20 > In section 8.1.1, step 4, the calculations of c' and d' are supposed=20 > to use subtractions instead of additions, right? >=20 > A similar question applies to the calculation of c' in 8.2.1 step 3. >=20 > In Table 3 in Section 9.2.6, index 9 should code (run=3D2,level>1), right= ? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec >=20 > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec >=20 From nobody Mon Jul 13 14:35:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FE61A03A2 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rBNAS2tvVFHK for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f47.google.com (mail-pa0-f47.google.com [209.85.220.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFC991A015F for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padck2 with SMTP id ck2so48877473pad.0 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=17O1t5va1vvknThPwuljmRkSFNLqUKu1wSVHXE8XiII=; b=eWz+2LSjo3K9zT3bW/IbLrxhHjl1VHFuj0oc8d4pK747NBo9V7UnjGELQwLsEfK8+M MCtRa1YK4lt/yQKGiOPA0kvvWs45pke9Jfms9irUTu8brJCNqlsgWkABRCryL+RDTWRx rzzmF8y+1WU6bMxDUTVkaFlp74dIl2cB7AShHrJTjMwn1friWYN0c++zqVqyKLA9potm REVMqTLTr962rLDh/aEHrcIdPKbY3gI6dNRdDRr8+sQdY+CVLOWiB7Eq9fQ/onHFjxpH h9leOjL8GzrIKmGiko1bdIuIw+nWzewzod5vC94Z4k6eBqoQejosIRCq9Sm0AYGgRmQ8 JRzw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmXWYCdlkOrj1D824Y3Lxelgq6ZezaE0u6VTqz36i9y78I1zCTOUdsP0aMp/6jQL3S+sblS X-Received: by 10.66.156.68 with SMTP id wc4mr73280681pab.126.1436823345256; Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d7sm19503279pbu.41.2015.07.13.14.35.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:44 -0700 (PDT) To: Filippov Alexey , "video-codec@ietf.org" References: From: Thomas Daede X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55A42F2D.30008@mozilla.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:35:41 -0700 User-Agent: http://a.pomf.se/cszdno.opus MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Interlacing support X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 21:35:48 -0000 On 07/07/2015 11:23 PM, Filippov Alexey wrote: > I agree that a common way to avoid dealing with interlaced formats is to > use a deinterlacer before encoding. The main disadvantage of this > approach is blurring caused by applying a low-pass filter (deinterlacer) > to an interlaced picture. So, it's necessary to show that deinterlacing > before encoding is better than using specific tools inside the codec. If > anyone has counterarguments, I'd like to hear them. Any blurring caused by the deinterlacer will also happen if the video is encoded interlaced, it will just happen on the decoder side instead. I agree that we should test this. We also need a way to compare the quality of the two methods. Here is my suggested test: original video -> deinterlacer original video -> x265 -> deinterlacer original video -> deinterlacer -> x265 All three will result in progressive output that can be compared with standard metrics. From nobody Mon Jul 20 02:13:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FB71A014C for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 02:13:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kt8yCTpEnJoi for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 02:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11B141A0123 for ; 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Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:13:15 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.42]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 04:13:15 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Note takers and jabber scribe Thread-Index: AQHQwsxPHDlY6ID6HkSBRCx41o/NBg== Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [64.100.32.216] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Note takers and jabber scribe X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:13:29 -0000 In preparation for today's meeting, the chairs would like to request any volunteers for note takers and a jabber scribe, so we don't have to "volunteer" you during the meeting. :) Thanks, Mo From nobody Mon Jul 20 05:41:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2E21A7D82 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O4pgeBRx-qD0 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22c.google.com (mail-ig0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09F8C1A6EDA for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by igbpg9 with SMTP id pg9so80291759igb.0 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2QakBGeV4UYzdVDCIgPM9fwvqL/pIdRpcQMcBdDYYdo=; b=l51JHBCTsVDyb34zRy8Lfyh+pIOCtXDAElO08nHZq88qmIRk854s5CaappqWnMPKt9 43/BNi6ChkiUxAI65AwHna0s6ZY0fUOkLoyipFmtE1bON5X5xUDy24MG1EyG3Q4MDdnR W02PWdwR6ABSBHjtLmpARd7XFNX2AJpmUkGzZaYlIRFrPZrokZy2OP7zM4sKIC34YHht gz709GEnOXh6EE/FM6IG6xbPjwk0hLv3T1IV0K5xXjWXkjCU/Nbw9zKIONLcjuuJt9cM Q6s/eDrdVlzPjwos1HZmyYJ5ccoPX2xh+UzF6arH29q/Wy0BS+oo8LVjqOLp4OzBm5L9 QrDA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.8.68 with SMTP id p4mr14915853iga.4.1437396106488; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Sender: metajack@gmail.com Received: by 10.79.65.88 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 06:41:46 -0600 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zdhyc7A1tD5CGZDxZ38z9Rbgw1Y Message-ID: From: Jack Moffitt To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] missing rounding behavior in draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:41:48 -0000 In section 8.2 on the constrained lowpass filter, the delta is computed with Delta = max(-1,min(1,(A+B+C+D-4X+2)>>2)) but the Thor code uses a slightly more complex calculation. The draft should probably be updated to match the code. jack. From nobody Tue Jul 21 04:11:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583D31A0024 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Iusa2lGLD2wB for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FFD01A004C for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibud3 with SMTP id ud3so123858143wib.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8zZbZKr/tDyMhUG8E/nBic2J3vD6dcj4e0MXR82O9D4=; b=FQl8LpUNpWaom+1gq47OuBfz0IWUN7uSapQ+xhOhN8NL78bxj8S5oJNQ8t3JfhCOcs mQgHSjaWDJ7frhcals96gAIg0jp4Lfwd2rmKNCc8NVDtCp5eDmjMq7skWO4D2cEUnanj EgwvjzVMcZLdm1L4VKte9QkY2XC5zMY1RvOF4xHdoVrGFn1m7EZjz3r5X5RU5DGEQ7/v hd9twaG7pnEPK25eDbWt5n69OTIsSq3ssHA7F5BbzV8nTo3be/ajdR4r+mytRd7iwWhD 9XvZazTh7YzTxQn7nNA2Z+dqrS/qWP46djXbasb1T2Y0e7UuGPNTPTQ3VyQ/g/xOnCPe sdLw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmEupdiA5FuONRI0BZ81/2B/0uk8ovppzur2tLX+sShyFvnINNkyzIuNpcMO4k6fyht3bvL X-Received: by 10.180.83.137 with SMTP id q9mr31960027wiy.68.1437477111172; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:168:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2001:67c:370:168:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ex8sm36477661wjc.34.2015.07.21.04.11.50 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2015 04:11:50 -0700 (PDT) To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Thomas Daede X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55AE28F6.6070100@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:11:50 +0200 User-Agent: http://a.pomf.se/cszdno.opus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Low-latency rate control constraints X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:11:54 -0000 At the Monday NETVC session, it was suggested that CBR mode with a fixed buffer size was not a very good representation of what rate control for video conferencing would do. Are there suggestions of a better model? Keep in mind that this is only for relatively short (~15s) clips. Another option is just to not specify CBR bounds, so that this test would be like the high latency test but with lookahead and 2 pass constraints. From nobody Tue Jul 21 07:22:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188C61B2E50 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:22:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id InZl7EaEMFsA for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A16171B2E6E for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:22:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1262; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437488560; x=1438698160; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=4VEDp3z3a4vJ4fRUNjdlIZxcLi45jQzfrVpVUpvVIOc=; b=akCQF21Xk5fN/wyZsjrBcYT+Ar0gdq4fpLCQ/gjetO0fkIuGCvgXi53+ T0msUzlkn6XPurH/4thTWT76IRA2XWWcSbty7d0u5/331J6EuNtSHRoSO ZEkJ8J5yp/+p34+0MwW8WwJ1NSELR2goKPftDdxqEgyShUENdMdrJqo1X c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0ALBQBQVa5V/49dJa1cgxOBQ8QngR47EQEBAQEBAQGBCoQqIxFXASICJgIEMBUSBIhBpQKPX5ZEAQEBAQEFAQEBAQEBAQEagSKSHy+BFAWRSIMLAYwpgUOHLHCPLyaDfII2gQQBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,516,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="170688463" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2015 14:22:39 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6LEMdS5015168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:22:39 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.2.64]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:22:39 -0500 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 Thread-Index: AQHQw8CyW0GCvpXJZECxIZTezzBngA== Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:22:39 +0000 Message-ID: <32AA73C5-0D17-4ECE-A02D-041C5147D9E5@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.150701 x-originating-ip: [10.61.108.86] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <131415CCE744F845868F93DDCF6A2E63@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:22:47 -0000 SSByZWFkIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYWZ0ZXIgc2VlaW5nIHRoZSBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24geWVzdGVyZGF5 LiBPdmVyYWxsLCBJIGRvbnQgbGlrZSB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgdHJpZXMgdG8g Y292ZXIgYSBsb3Qgb2YgdXNlIGNhc2VzIHF1aXRlIG5hcnJvd2x5LiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgc28gbWFu eSBvbWlzc2lvbnMgaGVyZSBhbmQgdGhlcmUuDQoNClRoZSBjaGFydGVyIGZvciB0aGlzIFdHIGlz IHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBnb29kIGNvZGVjIGZvciBpbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSB2aWRlbyBhcHBsaWNhdGlv bnMuIFNvIGFsbCB0aGUgcmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2VzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBkcm9wcGVkIGFu ZCBub3QgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGF0IGFsbC4NCg0KVGhpcyBXRyBzaG91bGQgc3BlbmQgd2hhdGV2ZXIg ZW5lcmd5IGl0IGhhcyB0byBmb2N1cyBvbiB0aGUgcHJpbWFyeSB1c2UgY2FzZSAoaW50ZXJhY3Rp dmUgdmlkZW8pIGxpa2UgUlRDd2ViLCBjb25mZXJlbmNpbmcsIGV0Yy4gSSBkb250IHRoaW5rIHdl IGhhdmUgdGhlIGVuZXJneSB0byBjcmVhdGUgYSBjb2RlYyB0aGF0IHdpbGwgc2F0aXNmeSB3b3Js ZOKAmXMgYWxsIHZpZGVvIGRlbWFuZHMuDQoNClNvIElQVFYsIGdhbWUgc3RyZWFtaW5nIGFuZCB2 aWRlbyBzaGFyaW5nIHNob3VsZCBiZSByZW1vdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIHJlcXMgZG9jdW1lbnQuIEkg YW0gbm90IHNvIHN1cmUgYWJvdXQgdmlkZW8gbW9uaXRvcmluZywgdGhvdWdoLCBhcyBpdCBoYXMg cXVpdGUgbWFueSBzaW1pbGFyaXRpZXMgdG8gaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUgdmlkZW8uIA0KDQpGV0lXLCBJ IGFyZ3VlIHRoYXQgaW50ZXJsYWNpbmcgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGluIHRoaXMg V0cgKG9yIGF0IGFsbCBmb3IgYW55IHZpZGVvIGNvZGVjKSBtb3ZpbmcgZm9yd2FyZC4gDQoNCi1h Y2JlZ2VuDQo= From nobody Tue Jul 21 07:29:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7048E1B2D7B for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:29:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.078 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.078 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vTHZ5tzRtmkY for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx1.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F7501B2E63 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5F02C01AF for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:28:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id okidLWQyhl-f for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:28:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [31.133.169.52] (dhcp-a934.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.169.52]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx1.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E774C0126 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:28:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <55AE5729.1000103@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:28:57 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <32AA73C5-0D17-4ECE-A02D-041C5147D9E5@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <32AA73C5-0D17-4ECE-A02D-041C5147D9E5@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:29:01 -0000 Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > I read this draft after seeing the presentation yesterday. Overall, I dont like the fact that this draft tries to cover a lot of use cases quite narrowly. There are so many omissions here and there. > > The charter for this WG is to provide a good codec for interactive video applications. So all the rest of the use cases should be dropped and not discussed at all. I think at the very least on-demand Netflix/Youtube/etc. streaming is a very important internet use case that we want to satisfy. Interactive is called out explicitly by the charter because it imposes a set of severe technical constraints on what the codec can do, but I don't think the intent was to limit us to that use case (as indicated by the words "but not necessarily limited to" in the charter). From nobody Tue Jul 21 07:37:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745291A8857 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:37:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ug-nDK7xa2Uj for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060091A1A8D for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:37:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2206; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437489448; x=1438699048; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=a8figfzJDYBiDR3HwDNYO/flR4Tk4zc86EXZqtDilAk=; b=FfWEZ6j+aqaBVh9sWdH7YNIIw1DJ4+L9bI20cLuKbyjnZCvEq3o9mLUS 21MDZ0KfJjLrHdWkH5VZlZ1S/b9MChMwOCWNZ9kiYENuS+cggbvn0bJS3 OZMIkeXDQoac3P5Pr2InoJ+lAANvwZDWb9SrXgkoJTL52k9Q2MHbrY0zr k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AiAwDYWK5V/4MNJK1cgxNUaQa8CgmBawqGAQIcgR44FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQjAQEBBAEBASAREycXBAIBCBEDAQIBAgImAgICJQsVCAgCBAESiC4NtF+FG5EuAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSBIooqhC0BJToGgmIvgRQFlFMBjCkBgUKHLJAfJoN8b4EEAR8jgQQBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,516,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="170693057" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2015 14:37:08 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6LEb8rN026142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:37:08 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.2.64]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 09:37:07 -0500 From: "Ali C. Begen (abegen)" To: "Timothy B. Terriberry" , "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 Thread-Index: AQHQw8CyW0GCvpXJZECxIZTezzBngJ3mT3eAgAAjzgA= Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:37:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <32AA73C5-0D17-4ECE-A02D-041C5147D9E5@cisco.com> <55AE5729.1000103@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: <55AE5729.1000103@xiph.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.150701 x-originating-ip: [10.61.108.86] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:37:29 -0000 DQoNCg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiB2aWRlby1jb2RlYyBv biBiZWhhbGYgb2YgIlRpbW90aHkgQi4gVGVycmliZXJyeSINCkRhdGU6IFR1ZXNkYXksIEp1bHkg MjEsIDIwMTUgYXQgNDoyOCBQTQ0KVG86ICJ2aWRlby1jb2RlY0BpZXRmLm9yZyINClN1YmplY3Q6 IFJlOiBbdmlkZW8tY29kZWNdIGRyYWZ0LWZpbGlwcG92LW5ldHZjLXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy0wMQ0K DQo+QWxpIEMuIEJlZ2VuIChhYmVnZW4pIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gSSByZWFkIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYWZ0 ZXIgc2VlaW5nIHRoZSBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24geWVzdGVyZGF5LiBPdmVyYWxsLCBJIGRvbnQgbGlr ZSB0aGUgZmFjdCB0aGF0IHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgdHJpZXMgdG8gY292ZXIgYSBsb3Qgb2YgdXNlIGNh c2VzIHF1aXRlIG5hcnJvd2x5LiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgc28gbWFueSBvbWlzc2lvbnMgaGVyZSBhbmQg dGhlcmUuDQo+Pg0KPj4gVGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgZm9yIHRoaXMgV0cgaXMgdG8gcHJvdmlkZSBhIGdv b2QgY29kZWMgZm9yIGludGVyYWN0aXZlIHZpZGVvIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4gU28gYWxsIHRoZSBy ZXN0IG9mIHRoZSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGRyb3BwZWQgYW5kIG5vdCBkaXNjdXNzZWQg YXQgYWxsLg0KPg0KPkkgdGhpbmsgYXQgdGhlIHZlcnkgbGVhc3Qgb24tZGVtYW5kIE5ldGZsaXgv WW91dHViZS9ldGMuIHN0cmVhbWluZyBpcyBhIA0KPnZlcnkgaW1wb3J0YW50IGludGVybmV0IHVz ZSBjYXNlIHRoYXQgd2Ugd2FudCB0byBzYXRpc2Z5LiBJbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSBpcyANCj5jYWxsZWQg b3V0IGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgYnkgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpbXBvc2VzIGEgc2V0IG9m IHNldmVyZSANCj50ZWNobmljYWwgY29uc3RyYWludHMgb24gd2hhdCB0aGUgY29kZWMgY2FuIGRv LCBidXQgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGUgDQo+aW50ZW50IHdhcyB0byBsaW1pdCB1cyB0byB0aGF0 IHVzZSBjYXNlIChhcyBpbmRpY2F0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIHdvcmRzICJidXQgDQo+bm90IG5lY2Vzc2Fy aWx5IGxpbWl0ZWQgdG8iIGluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyKS4NCg0KSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoYXQgcGFy dCBidXQgd2hhdCBJIGFtIHNheWluZyBpcyB0aGF0IGRldmVsb3BpbmcgYSBjb2RlYyB0aGF0IHdp bGwgYm90aCBwZXJmb3JtIGVub3VnaCB3ZWxsIGZvciBpbnRlcmFjdGl2ZSB2aWRlbyBhbmQgc3Ry ZWFtaW5nIHZpZGVvIGlzIGEgdGVkaW91cyB0YXNrLiBGb2N1c2luZyBvbiB0d28gZGlmZmVyZW50 IHRoaW5ncyB3aWxsIGluY3JlYXNlIHRoZSByaXNrIG9mIGZhaWx1cmUgZm9yIHRoaXMgd2cuIE1h eWJlIHRoZSB3ZyBzaG91bGQgY29uc2lkZXIgc29sdmluZyB0aGUgZmlyc3QgKGFuZCB0aGUgbW9y ZSBpbXBvcnRhbnQpIHByb2JsZW0gZmlyc3QgYW5kIHRoZW4gc2VlIHdoZXRoZXIgaXQgY2FuIHRh Y2tsZSB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHByb2JsZW0uDQoNCg0KPg0KPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+dmlkZW8tY29kZWMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+dmlk ZW8tY29kZWNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L3ZpZGVvLWNvZGVjDQo= From nobody Tue Jul 21 07:57:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6FD1B2EB5 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:57:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_FAIL=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtHBZAsH04R8 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.scl3.mozilla.com [63.245.214.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E32B01B2E1B for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD0AC054D for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:57:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-dekVR3_YW3 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:57:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [31.133.169.52] (dhcp-a934.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.169.52]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF586C183E for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:57:25 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <55AE5DD1.60400@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 07:57:21 -0700 From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "video-codec@ietf.org" References: <32AA73C5-0D17-4ECE-A02D-041C5147D9E5@cisco.com> <55AE5729.1000103@xiph.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-01 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:57:29 -0000 Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > I understand that part but what I am saying is that developing a codec that will both perform enough well for interactive video and streaming video is a tedious task. Focusing on two different things will increase the risk of failure for this wg. Maybe the wg should consider solving the first (and the more important) problem first and then see whether it can tackle the second problem. Well, I agree we can probably significantly narrow the set of use cases we want to consider, but I think narrowing it down to one is too extreme. From the perspective of my employer (Mozilla), for example, we need a codec that works in the