From nobody Fri Oct 2 15:25:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36F81A8A4B for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8VU0-DvbNuI6 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE7671A8A48 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Orochi.local (99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t92MOubX082666 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:24:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110] claimed to be Orochi.local To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <560F0438.6030704@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:24:56 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Requests for Yokohama timeslots X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 22:24:59 -0000 [as chair] As you may have seen, the preliminary agenda for next month's IETF meeting has been posted. I'd like to start getting our own preliminary agenda for NETVC pulled together. If you think you'll be leading a discussion on a NETVC-related draft in Yokohama, please let me and Mo as soon as possible. Thanks! /a From nobody Tue Oct 13 11:23:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694FA1A06E9 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9kLjRoePNCKk for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-f50.google.com (mail-pa0-f50.google.com [209.85.220.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 438461A020D for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by padhy16 with SMTP id hy16so28264041pad.1 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vNFhfFLrXg0npz88PFOgroPGlO+2tJl6SPeHmupvPvk=; b=khaQw3CctpwciWN83siHC7f8tIjIlm2HkIRhK932aDnU2S6eOwVypmNSnw4BLFFcmK Zv7v+YfB+oRsLb3JvCOoOqU3HFFcWRGtdmWInXstRE53YlxN20pR1mY2Xev5AFNfFWAn s7rZDtSV6yCgk7ruYgKJRZcibjodASKSjfQkXDaDl8T3GTgVVfys/sPNBO6gTFQ8QWxG 6CBTySzvySEjuFgzVsv2xPnfdacHnKgEjHWDGOtNZC0pURSXhBW8veqQ/AdZMcFsfHv6 QhYwgl+znRM9WVlbnerOZNTerE9taYyeadYby4z/ejSOggVx5i3bHDZI7KWjU/Kj8U7P EC5A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlftQL+yhcEpbOIEdqjtUxb7hb4OBJTs6HfXATYjeQI0GxucH8WE4SeDMEoyXs+gBEak4vt X-Received: by 10.67.3.167 with SMTP id bx7mr42308597pad.47.1444760610714; Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id dd4sm5127897pbb.52.2015.10.13.11.23.29 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:29 -0700 (PDT) To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Thomas Daede X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <561D4C1F.4010701@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 11:23:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Testing draft text for low latency modes X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 18:23:34 -0000 Due to concerns about the high variability and relative codec independence of closed loop CBR rate control, I've split apart the "low latency" use case into two cases. I currently have both in the draft, which means that the requirements draft will need to be updated to reference the correct scenario. My suggestion would be to have quality requirements for the High Latency and Unconstrained Low Latency scenarios, but only require that the Constrained Low Latency test does not fail. Unconstrained Low Latency is also useful for applications where average bandwidth is more expensive than short peaks of bandwidth. Note that none of these scenarios forbid rate control, but they impose limits on what knowledge the rate control has. This means that none of them require exposing inner workings of the codec. The new text is below: ### High Latency The encoder should be run at the best quality mode available, using the mode that will provide the best quality per bitrate (VBR or constant quality mode). Lookahead and/or two-pass are allowed, if supported. One parameter is provided to adjust bitrate, but the units are arbitrary. Example configurations follow: - x264: --crf=x - x265: --crf=x - daala: -v=x - libvpx: --codec=vp9 --end-usage=q --cq-level=x ### Unconstrained Low Latency The encoder should be run at the best quality mode available, using the mode that will provide the best quality per bitrate (VBR or constant quality mode), but no frame delay, buffering, or lookahead is allowed. One parameter is provided to adjust bitrate, but the units are arbitrary. ### Constrained Low Latency The encoder is given one parameter, which is absolute bitrate. No frame delay, buffering, or lookahead is allowed. The maximum achieved bitrate deviation from the supplied parameter is determined by a buffer model: - The buffer starts out empty. - After each frame is encoded, the buffer is filled by the number of bits spent for the frame. - The buffer is then emptied by (bitrate * frame duration) bits. - The buffer fill level is checked. If it is over the limit, the test is considered a failure. The buffer size limit is defined by the bitrate target * 0.3 seconds. From nobody Sat Oct 17 13:14:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701501ACDDB for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:14:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s7kN9Iy31VXB for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 096051ACDD4 for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Orochi.local (99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t9HKEjCB006104 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:14:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110] claimed to be Orochi.local To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <5622AC35.6020403@nostrum.com> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:14:45 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 20:14:48 -0000 [as chair] Based on requests received so far, we have a preliminary agenda available for the face-to-face meeting in Yokohama: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/agenda/agenda-94-netvc Any feedback about topics and timing should be provided no later than this Friday, October 23rd. /a From nobody Mon Oct 19 16:11:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430F71B2E8D for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lmzTzebwLb5n for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA78E1B2E6C for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgeo38 with SMTP id o38so381434qge.0 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dgql_org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=u9Fi7d6HyjvQ8wILvvgc7zzlPvtZvkHhpTwt9nJevpI=; b=n26STHs9b46CIVBMHpeBlVWiG+CR+KAVhrR4N5fm0gb6Qs7poS9z1tlVf0NfG6Imzj iX8Q6fDqc9x+K0pg1wXeEg7A7lCM6mQ+6Zr3NIZyu9PoFAXV+y4g9WJAEV6kZ9tv0Sfz Ku0bvsuysasMMU548Bv5LF2u4CVgKAi5JSm1gG74xaThwEmotXR6MO+2JPi06UeePLuz eDKpoCh3KtFMGrnN1knMfdTUEDM8F7TdjRQlVi7NAxzuqB3Y4ztGGB2yjHhzKxZjZo3r ZCm1JbuureTy77lWt0soWCkLK9U5ZCaJEMUugE+fgByYsyL0ICXcNFwk13I3LO4aj8lL hE6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=u9Fi7d6HyjvQ8wILvvgc7zzlPvtZvkHhpTwt9nJevpI=; b=kIhtI2hCo3hTeKwg7ltWTilaDOy2jR5gjBwXOxudlxtS+g1zwAHnDTGvEzGqipFeXG 5yPuaWOtR6biaC28ZTEnktr4ikGhqRtFryH2pdmlELN4GFktvGIghFysq1duItkoqs5x b93/FUIOT12pGNvcRBo3znR7B2k5+Vke7SWXpDuJp/8HxFFfb7kYRZ9cDDsoQA6q8qub ZTBc0URhcW1uywNeSgOxL3adw8K0BHXPS1/CUQBCJ6HwO1dm5VcuZmYxX6zc1vU5D0K9 /CFj9pAZHn6MWCCtXxxCKw/mw0/C3xGMNGSmqFnwZNVKRjbg5QYAxHCulzJo80n3nkOw 4LNA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkRNSiZ/IfBydmGpSF31XoS3PBDH7CokniBf+P1W1zE42XH/ufsVi2pECbOCDBE5qAsg5Yr X-Received: by 10.140.82.199 with SMTP id h65mr25482qgd.52.1445296273119; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (c-98-204-138-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net. [98.204.138.165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g91sm42274qgg.20.2015.10.19.16.11.12 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:11:12 -0700 (PDT) References: <20151019224954.362.92250.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: video-codec@ietf.org From: Nathan Egge X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20151019224954.362.92250.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <5625788F.1070807@dgql.org> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:11:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151019224954.362.92250.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050905060206060107030903" Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:11:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050905060206060107030903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I submitted the following draft that documents the chroma-from-luma intra prediction technique used in Daala. This draft is based on the SPIE paper I presented at a conference in March, http://spie.org/Publications/Proceedings/Paper/10.1117/12.2080837. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:49:54 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Nathan E. Egge A new version of I-D, draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nathan E. Egge and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-egge-netvc-cfl Revision: 00 Title: Chroma-from-Luma Intraprediction for NETVC Document date: 2015-10-18 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 10 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-egge-netvc-cfl/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00 Abstract: This document proposes a scheme for predicting chroma coefficients from reconstructed luma coefficients in the frequency domain. When this technique is used with Perceptual Vector Quantization (PVQ), the expensive parameter fitting step can be completely omitted. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------050905060206060107030903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I submitted the following draft that documents the chroma-from-luma intra prediction technique used in Daala.  This draft is based on the SPIE paper I presented at a conference in March, http://spie.org/Publications/Proceedings/Paper/10.1117/12.2080837.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 15:49:54 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Nathan E. Egge <negge@xiph.org> 


A new version of I-D, draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Nathan E. Egge and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-egge-netvc-cfl
Revision:	00
Title:		Chroma-from-Luma Intraprediction for NETVC
Document date:	2015-10-18
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-egge-netvc-cfl/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-egge-netvc-cfl-00


Abstract:
   This document proposes a scheme for predicting chroma coefficients
   from reconstructed luma coefficients in the frequency domain.  When
   this technique is used with Perceptual Vector Quantization (PVQ), the
   expensive parameter fitting step can be completely omitted.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--------------050905060206060107030903-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 00:47:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260EE1B2B3B for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:47:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92jpXLClKFe8 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 482E71B2B2D for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:47:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4773; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445327225; x=1446536825; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=960/NH1rcXllMxW3puTUcTRhAafn4ubLhBN29iVTFik=; b=eMUxyBRThpzalc+aEqsG0o3EIDIOGBCI4Jz8XCS+fR6TXJFnD1xSb794 ngTwPc75FFOFofgIvvEb0RR/yV4/NHxreKxMmASWFUtWTuCveech5Fo4E ksWSjFCsZH8BdmqaZ7LnRfMDeOhqz8AME5f8yjGhIwTqynonv3EVmaYQ+ w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DtAgDD8CVW/5xdJa1egzZUb71uKwENgVohhX0CgTQ4FAEBAQEBAQF/C4QtAQEBBHcSAgEMDQMBAigHMhQHAggCBBOIMA3ETAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARiGd4IQgm6EfA0KAQaDFIEUBY0SiRIBhRiIBoFYSIN3lgkBEQ4BAUKEA3IBhWYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.17,706,1437436800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="39158428" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Oct 2015 07:47:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com (xch-rcd-014.cisco.com [173.37.102.24]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9K7l4WK019512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:47:04 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-RCD-014.cisco.com (173.37.102.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:46:45 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 02:46:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Davies (thdavies)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCojzdcQVtiVDOkauN/k5kyUoAp50Ad6f Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:46:45 +0000 Message-ID: <33BE15FA-1456-482A-8F44-94438C2E56D5@cisco.com> References: <20151019161242.27869.17135.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151019161242.27869.17135.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_33BE15FA1456482A8F4494438C2E56D5ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:47:07 -0000 --_000_33BE15FA1456482A8F4494438C2E56D5ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I submitted the following draft which describes a method of synthesising ne= w reference frames for video coding, and how that is done in Thor. Regards Thomas Begin forwarded message: From: > Date: 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST To: Thomas Davies >, Thomas D= avies > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-davies-netvc-irfvc Revision: 00 Title: Interpolated reference frames for video coding Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 8 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irf= vc-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00 Abstract: This document describes the use of interpolated reference frames in video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in particular. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --_000_33BE15FA1456482A8F4494438C2E56D5ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I submitted the following draft which describes a method of synthesisi= ng new reference frames for video coding, and how that is done in Thor.

Regards

Thomas



Begin forwarded message:

From: <internet-= drafts@ietf.org>
Date: 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST
To: Thomas Davies <thdavies= @cisco.com>, Thomas Davies <thdavies@cisco.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00= .txt


A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-davies-netvc-irfvc
Revision:    00
Title:        Interpolated reference frames for v= ideo coding
Document date:    2015-10-19
Group:        Individual Submission
Pages:        8
URL:           &nbs= p;https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.tx= t
Status:         https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00


Abstract:
  This document describes the use of interpolated reference= frames in
  video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in p= articular.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of sub= mission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--_000_33BE15FA1456482A8F4494438C2E56D5ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 09:50:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034721A912C for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PXYymt_GjmEd for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f44.google.com (mail-qg0-f44.google.com [209.85.192.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 393A91A9151 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgbb65 with SMTP id b65so20461824qgb.2 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FCRbGpNO0UceUY4a5hCzN7S8T/RBVcQ2KIdKYMHvo6A=; b=BjKJMIA1NpV53+DTPsD7xlwrRxHEhhsjBFmO62kcAnTHwKqb38rioX6500+E+Wl5de 7bdcRtCe5Lishs7qIoVpy8PdOyGsVpNMUciTmYpoRGRu5cIObFRMFl0aea4WOrZ4kwcS jvz6HfZzigtBA/YbUNZhmVDq+FB6H7oDSvqBnsV0ZveaqO8JHiWRehubbdZE+PCG6Rk3 7chuhNBkqAOIqAsfuUKsNPXG2D5F6fjIXIAMNHyy2kNnvjAZkuOqsgdPr4qNpAnPpKh8 KNnN0bJVrsIRiNCR18CwFqvuJcXkSTI3S68PtfjEOIxC8+FD39YbJ0/Upo0TFac4/p6U KnlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl2zKwQqXkN2bBD7Vu9WgbGn+m/Dlbp/acdtc72lPUlfHp/aH1skrSRGGv5I3L2StGFbTqV X-Received: by 10.140.147.129 with SMTP id 123mr5526147qht.12.1445359831209; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm1557884qkh.44.2015.10.20.09.50.30 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <20151019205948.15845.70991.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20151019205948.15845.70991.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <562670D5.70905@jmvalin.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:50:29 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151019205948.15845.70991.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:50:35 -0000 Hi, Just submitted the following draft describing a deringing filter. It's implemented in Daala, but should be applicable to any other video codec. Cheers, Jean-Marc -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00.txt Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 13:59:48 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Jean-Marc Valin A new version of I-D, draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Jean-Marc Valin and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-valin-netvc-deringing Revision: 00 Title: Directional Deringing Filter Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 7 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-valin-netvc-deringing/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00 Abstract: This document describes a deringing filter that takes into account the direction of edges and patterns being filtered. The filter works by identifying the direction of each block and then adaptively filtering along the identified direction. In a second pass, the blocks are also filtered in a different direction, with more conservative thresholds to avoid blurring edges. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Oct 20 10:48:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BA51A883F for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:48:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tCwIv-1xgZ84 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-f172.google.com (mail-yk0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 234671A8851 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykba4 with SMTP id a4so18322623ykb.3 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=h4aksaZIOHoXBmp2GGwfCJEquPmCbA7loKMr9td5c7I=; b=XBBg5S+k2b8UZ5sxVScH+HnDgZWqXiMmmdW+z/Bc4T10wXzF8taUlEpYCpKJsvVOLK spuu4NfVk4o1ApwXs8p/BUmvvR+g6UzCwG8IpIqkZ8Yjn3Bzcmic9A9acXx65MzkemxQ TKwjumiK2onM8CqaJKQp23z00Dor8MVPiAaX1R8a0w35zB0ADFwK3wG80UMGXXP1e9TW O5lfraSuzss8AAK+O+bvCuUaXs//StpcPFUdNj+x2jTSPthet6UvpDc1uEbzn5PRzWYv 1oFBEGMfFaxxWTktraxnwwApr3hoklMHd4Xs+17PftfbbrmtqM2gCzjHCF2X50yaB1/Q I2bw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlvWy/IjCn7tTFjRM8G7l9LCwT1np+zf9RZJ0QjCw7yeqbpKz5xMU76SGmuLTz2z1zx/BuZ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.70.195 with SMTP id t186mr3661499ywa.4.1445363279178; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.66.197 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:47:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <33BE15FA-1456-482A-8F44-94438C2E56D5@cisco.com> References: <20151019161242.27869.17135.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33BE15FA-1456-482A-8F44-94438C2E56D5@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:47:59 -0700 Message-ID: From: Yushin Cho To: "Thomas Davies (thdavies)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114c7f14d3ea6905228cdc16 Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:48:41 -0000 --001a114c7f14d3ea6905228cdc16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Thomas, I have some questions. 1) In subsection "3.2. Motion estimation process", "Since F does not exist the motion estimation process consists of matching blocks B+mv0 in R0 with blocks B+mv1 in R1." Does 'B' there probably mean each block in frame F? It was not defined anywhere. 2) Once interpolated reference frame F is obtained, which I understand will spend some bits unless all 16x16 blocks can be skipped, a regular motion estimation on top of frame F with target original input frame is performed? As implied by "The aim is to create a reference frame that is temporally co-located with the current frame being predicted," in "1. Introduction". 3) Lastly, is the interpolated reference frame F only used for B-frame, since frame F itself is anyway motion compensated bi-directionally, i.e. past and future frames (or the other way), R0 and R1, though the current frame can be coded as a P-frame style once F is provided? Thanks, Yushin On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Thomas Davies (thdavies) < thdavies@cisco.com> wrote: > I submitted the following draft which describes a method of synthesising > new reference frames for video coding, and how that is done in Thor. > > Regards > > Thomas > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From:* > *Date:* 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST > *To:* Thomas Davies , Thomas Davies < > thdavies@cisco.com> > *Subject:* *New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt* > > > A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-davies-netvc-irfvc > Revision: 00 > Title: Interpolated reference frames for video coding > Document date: 2015-10-19 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 8 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00 > > > Abstract: > This document describes the use of interpolated reference frames in > video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in particular. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > -- Thanks! Yushin --001a114c7f14d3ea6905228cdc16 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi Thomas,

I have some questions.
1) In sub=
section "3.2.  Motion estimation process",
   "Since F does not exist the motion estimation process consists of
   matching blocks B+mv0 in R0 with blocks B+mv1 in R1."
Does '=
B' there probably mean each block in frame F? It was not defined anywhe=
re.
2) Once interpolated reference frame F is obtained, which=
 I understand will spend some bits 
unless all 16x16 blocks can be skipp=
ed, a regular motion estimation on top of frame F 
with target original =
input frame is performed? 
As implied by "The aim is to create a re=
ference frame that is temporally co-located with
the current frame being=
 predicted," in "1. Introduction".
3) Lastly, =
is the interpolated reference frame F only used for B-frame,
since frame=
 F itself is anyway motion compensated bi-directionally, 
i.e. past and =
future frames (or the other way), R0 and R1, 
though the current frame c=
an be coded as a P-frame style once F is provided?
Thanks,Yushin

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Thomas Davies (thdavies) <thdavi= es@cisco.com> wrote:
I submitted the following draft which describes a method of synthesisi= ng new reference frames for video coding, and how that is done in Thor.

Regards

Thomas



Begin forwarded message:

From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST
To: Thomas Davies <thdavies@cisco.com>, Thomas Davies <thdavies@cisco.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00= .txt


A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-davies-netvc-irfvc
Revision: =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Interpolated reference frames for v= ideo coding
Document date: =C2=A0 =C2=A02015-10-19
Group: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission
Pages: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08
URL: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davie= s-netvc-irfvc-00.txt
Status: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/
Htmlized: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0https://tool= s.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0=C2=A0This document describes the use of interpolated reference= frames in
=C2=A0=C2=A0video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in p= articular.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of sub= mission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec




--
Thanks!
Yu= shin
--001a114c7f14d3ea6905228cdc16-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 01:47:05 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650561A0119 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:47:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rMJbHi16v691 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D9D11A0113 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 01:47:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=13125; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445417222; x=1446626822; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=W4dqwKtdIQGNivJE/0WqhUnqUMis1CsgputvYIb3Wj0=; b=KWr5BsB1WsyfbsiStWskqB4Kw07U5p5tV4E87YhZj3FPbQzjgjHeozTK 5MciM5AFdRUCRhOD0mk/mSKu/UjBbNr4PzebRVfcCEPqtN1EerNleHNGk cb7skq/5MvNe49d3UL8JzsbMyOtsmMfFQMdEnweku1PCLc6pha3kw0naj 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DPAQBSUCdW/xbLJq1dhApvvgEBDYFaFwEJhX0CgXwUAQEBAQEBAYEKhC0BAQEDAQEBASBJAgkBAQULCQIOAwMBAgEJFggDAgIJAwIBAgEVHwkIBg0BBQIBAYgkCA2SOZ03hTSNaAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARiGd4R+hHwRBgEGA4JggUUFjRKFSINKhRmIBoFYSIN3gwGTCR8BAUKCRIFAPTQBhWYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.17,711,1437436800"; d="scan'208,217";a="630422248" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Oct 2015 08:46:58 +0000 Received: from [10.47.200.95] ([10.47.200.95]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9L8kvPk021037; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:46:57 GMT Message-ID: <56275101.9040909@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:46:57 +0100 From: Thomas Davies Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120410 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yushin Cho References: <20151019161242.27869.17135.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33BE15FA-1456-482A-8F44-94438C2E56D5@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050603040208080802050605" Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 08:47:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050603040208080802050605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Yushin On 20/10/15 18:47, Yushin Cho wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > I have some questions. > 1) In subsection "3.2. Motion estimation process", > "Since F does not exist the motion estimation process consists of > matching blocks B+mv0 in R0 with blocks B+mv1 in R1." > Does 'B' there probably mean each block in frame F? It was not defined anywhere Yes. > . > 2) Once interpolated reference frame F is obtained, which I understand will spend some bits > unless all 16x16 blocks can be skipped, a regular motion estimation on top of frame F > with target original input frame is performed? There are no bits spent on the interpolated reference frame. Yes, a regular ME is done after that. In our code the two MEs are different, but really the conventional ME should make use of candidates derived from the interpolation. > As implied by "The aim is to create a reference frame that is temporally co-located with > the current frame being predicted," in "1. Introduction". > 3) Lastly, is the interpolated reference frame F only used for B-frame, > since frame F itself is anyway motion compensated bi-directionally, > i.e. past and future frames (or the other way), R0 and R1, > though the current frame can be coded as a P-frame style once F is provided? Yes, I've tried it and it doesn't give gains. I think this is because the interpolation is "pull" from references rather than "push" + infill. "Pull" has the advantage that there is no infilling to do , and for the bidirectional case it's usually not desirable as good references can be found on both sides of a motion discontinuity. But with 1-sided interpolation i.e. extrapolation, at motion discontinuities there is no information for revealed areas, so some kind of infilling is needed. Hence moving edges tend to be truncated with this method. Perhaps some of the Daala inpainting work could be applied in this context. best regards Thomas > Thanks, > Yushin > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Thomas Davies (thdavies) > > wrote: > > I submitted the following draft which describes a method of > synthesising new reference frames for video coding, and how that > is done in Thor. > > Regards > > Thomas > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *From:* > >> *Date:* 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST >> *To:* Thomas Davies > >, Thomas Davies > > >> *Subject:* *New Version Notification for >> draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt* >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-davies-netvc-irfvc >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Interpolated reference frames for video coding >> Document date: 2015-10-19 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 8 >> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes the use of interpolated reference frames in >> video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in particular. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org . >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > > > > -- > Thanks! > Yushin --------------050603040208080802050605 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Yushin

On 20/10/15 18:47, Yushin Cho wrote: 
Hi Thomas,

I have some questions.
1) In subsection "3.2.  Motion estimation process",
   "Since F does not exist the motion estimation process consists of
   matching blocks B+mv0 in R0 with blocks B+mv1 in R1."
Does 'B' there probably mean each block in frame F? It was not defined anywhere

Yes.
.

2) Once interpolated reference frame F is obtained, which I understand will spend some bits 
unless all 16x16 blocks can be skipped, a regular motion estimation on top of frame F 
with target original input frame is performed?
There are no bits spent on the interpolated reference frame. Yes, a regular ME is done after that. In our code the two MEs are different, but really the conventional ME should make use of candidates derived from the interpolation.

As implied by "The aim is to create a reference frame that is temporally co-located with
the current frame being predicted," in "1. Introduction".

3) Lastly, is the interpolated reference frame F only used for B-frame,
since frame F itself is anyway motion compensated bi-directionally, 
i.e. past and future frames (or the other way), R0 and R1, 
though the current frame can be coded as a P-frame style once F is provided?
Yes, I've tried it and it doesn't give gains. I think this is because the interpolation is "pull" from references rather than "push" + infill. "Pull" has the advantage that there is no infilling to do , and for the bidirectional case it's usually not desirable as good references can be found on both sides of a motion discontinuity. But with 1-sided interpolation i.e. extrapolation, at motion discontinuities there is no information for revealed areas, so some kind of infilling is needed. Hence moving edges tend to be truncated with this method. Perhaps some of the Daala inpainting work could be applied in this context.

best regards

Thomas



Thanks,
Yushin

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:46 AM, Thomas Davies (thdavies) <thdavies@cisco.com> wrote:
I submitted the following draft which describes a method of synthesising new reference frames for video coding, and how that is done in Thor.

Regards

Thomas



Begin forwarded message:

From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: 19 October 2015 17:12:42 BST
To: Thomas Davies <thdavies@cisco.com>, Thomas Davies <thdavies@cisco.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-davies-netvc-irfvc
Revision:    00
Title:        Interpolated reference frames for video coding
Document date:    2015-10-19
Group:        Individual Submission
Pages:        8
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00


Abstract:
  This document describes the use of interpolated reference frames in
  video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in particular.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec




--
Thanks!
Yushin

--------------050603040208080802050605-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 07:02:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0601F1A8887 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:02:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T5THj2yOI9EG for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65A371A8860 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BZC56878; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:01:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.70) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 15:01:51 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA508-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.169]) by szxema411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 22:01:43 +0800 From: Filippov Alexey To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCmdXUm6SiyVMQEWsnrZ5BGzN2Z51/Exw Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:01:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.88.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: Jose Alvarez Subject: [video-codec] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filippov-netvc-requirements-02.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:02:01 -0000 U2V2ZXJhbCBkYXlzIGFnbywgSSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYSBuZXcgcmV2aXNpb24gb2YgdGhlIHJlcXVp cmVtZW50cyBkcmFmdC4gU29ycnkgdGhhdCBJIGZvcmdvdCB0byBzZW5kIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBl YXJsaWVyDQoNCi0tDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpBbGV4ZXkgRmlsaXBwb3YNCg0KLS0tLS1Pcmln aW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRv OmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gDQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE9jdG9iZXIgMTksIDIw MTUgMzoxMiBQTQ0KVG86IEZpbGlwcG92IEFsZXhleTsgRmlsaXBwb3YgQWxleGV5DQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWZpbGlwcG92LW5ldHZjLXJlcXVp cmVtZW50cy0wMi50eHQNCg0KDQpBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtZmlsaXBwb3Yt bmV0dmMtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLTAyLnR4dA0KaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1pdHRl ZCBieSBBbGV4ZXkgRmlsaXBwb3YgYW5kIHBvc3RlZCB0byB0aGUgSUVURiByZXBvc2l0b3J5Lg0K DQpOYW1lOgkJZHJhZnQtZmlsaXBwb3YtbmV0dmMtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzDQpSZXZpc2lvbjoJMDIN ClRpdGxlOgkJPFZpZGVvIENvZGVjIFJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBhbmQgRXZhbHVhdGlvbiBNZXRob2Rv bG9neT4NCkRvY3VtZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMTUtMTAtMTkNCkdyb3VwOgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJt aXNzaW9uDQpQYWdlczoJCTE4DQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LWZpbGlwcG92LW5ldHZjLXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy0wMi50eHQN ClN0YXR1czogICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1m aWxpcHBvdi1uZXR2Yy1yZXF1aXJlbWVudHMvDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29s cy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWZpbGlwcG92LW5ldHZjLXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy0wMg0KRGlm ZjogICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1maWxp cHBvdi1uZXR2Yy1yZXF1aXJlbWVudHMtMDINCg0KQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQogICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50 IHByb3ZpZGVzIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgYSB2aWRlbyBjb2RlYyBkZXNpZ25lZA0KICAgbWFp bmx5IGZvciB1c2Ugb3ZlciB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQuIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBhbiBldmFsdWF0aW9u DQogICBtZXRob2RvbG9neSBuZWVkZWQgZm9yIG1lYXN1cmluZyB0aGUgcGFyYW1ldGVycyAoY29t cHJlc3Npb24NCiAgIGVmZmljaWVuY3ksIGNvbXB1dGF0aW9uYWwgY29tcGxleGl0eSwgZXRjLikg dG8gZW5zdXJlIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlDQogICBzdGF0ZWQgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGFyZSBmdWxmaWxs ZWQgb3Igbm90Lg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUg dGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3Vi bWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxl IGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KDQo= From nobody Wed Oct 21 14:07:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFBF1B3094 for ; 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[24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 18sm3108507qgx.47.2015.10.21.14.07.31 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 14:07:31 -0700 (PDT) To: "Thomas Davies (thdavies)" , "video-codec@ietf.org" , stemidts@cisco.com From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:07:30 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:07:35 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi Steinar, Thomas, I saw your new constrained low pass filter draft for Thor and decided to start experimenting with it. Putting the filter in Daala, I saw a PSNR bd-rate improvement around 2.1% in the 0.05 bpp to 0.1 bpp range over our ntt-short1 test set (I disabled our deringing filter for this comparison to avoid the interactions). However, I was unable to see improvements of 4-7% like you are reporting in the draft. Of course, it's quite likely that I messed up the implementation or the adaptation to Daala. It's also possible that somehow Daala cannot benefit from the CLP as much as Thor does. This is the code I wrote for filtering a small block of pixels: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8850049 I've had to do some adaptation since the Daala pixels are shifted up by 4 at the point where we're applying the filter. Does this look correct to you? The other experiment that would be nice to try is using the Daala deringing filter in Thor. In Daala, our deringing filter is improving PSNR bd-rate by about a 6.5% in the 0.05 bpp to 0.1 bpp range. The deringing filter is documented in this IETF draft: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00 or (for those who don't like ASCII equations) in this pdf: http://jmvalin.ca/notes/dir_dering.pdf I uploaded some still image examples at: http://jmvalin.ca/video/deringing_examples/ Any interest in trying the Daala deringing filter in Thor? Cheers, Jean-Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWJ/6NAAoJEJ6/8sItn9q9vUMIALcD8AZ2D7HM02qTYGMphnBx 4MG8J3s5eZmRahp1+pSy3soXS95fmJAbj1k4m/PmL3MrvxIlna7fLsLSygbD6MVs k3dlYRVDg/blCVGVA1GreynvQNpaGYmUphRyvFgAzZdx8g6/nU+2uhGQ+vY6qk1a yjniHvysne6m72r05hJIXk5gFj3HxaXtSC4phz43tWQ5EVwrMva+cM1JfST4fOxP 1KxlJ445GtJW6T+gu3PcAWtU4MuZ5H93rVm32+icv+485fCVh/xVBTjwdyskbSk5 iLtQL05WXShe8O81/LgqUQMdc7QMmvmlUgRYAGt52FzZ47G0LWA9bkcSn/oiMaE= =ooSR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Wed Oct 21 21:36:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A0591B3772 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dCBfNmYGKL5E for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yk0-x232.google.com (mail-yk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 550F01B3770 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykba4 with SMTP id a4so65609364ykb.3 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=6kGRw4nwLS/VfI95MRJ1GyGua6yOsK3JzWn1AIVp8xI=; b=Ql08fX6U7u9sSQlhmNY46QmK2ZO9BIhs6z4OkG268FVWkQfqWrzDQbWjj2pdKoC48g Pi1MgQwrAOEX+1Xx6ZqSLjdhwt+e/v6VwwDNMu20sSeoK5sLVJPgNpZxoT/1Bag2xn/n CQ8cpL+PPKZv68f/8sUSw33Au/KKwCnPnyAE4OFnisKHGqIT0CiIukOvbKaVbVHF2xf5 xADIBb/BLiDHTeol9gS5KcvRJnmrZVrydqXMWqDY7uBQKXdRakYQZgxvetf2/JBohXyP beiBlcrxvUUg73iKsQS5tabTb9h2S2G+8hzi8nlc13cTGYneFyFt1HITyP+/FShIpKgZ 5IUQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.55.140 with SMTP id e134mr9395301ywa.260.1445488578597; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.37.15.10 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 21:36:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 00:36:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Jon M. Kelley" To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143fdfc411bf60522aa09d8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] video-codec Digest, Vol 26, Issue 3 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 04:36:21 -0000 --001a1143fdfc411bf60522aa09d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Motion in Motion analysis: might be used a way of reducing motion compression complexity Video Motion Analysis http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/2015/08/image-processing-algorithm-= isolates-micro-movements-inside-macro-full- motion-video.html =E2=80=9CThe research groups of Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT; Cambridge, MA) professors of computer science and engineering William Freeman and Fr=C3=A9do Durand have been investigating techniques for amplif= ying movements captured by video but indiscernible to the human eye; for example, versions of their image-processing algorithms can make the human pulse visible and even recover intelligible speech from the vibrations of objects filmed through soundproof glass.=E2=80=9D Jon M. Kelley Jon.M.Kelley@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 3:00 PM, wrote: > Send video-codec mailing list submissions to > video-codec@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > video-codec-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > video-codec-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of video-codec digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Preliminary Agenda (Adam Roach) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Adam Roach > To: "video-codec@ietf.org" > Cc: > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:14:45 -0500 > Subject: [video-codec] Preliminary Agenda > [as chair] > > Based on requests received so far, we have a preliminary agenda available > for the face-to-face meeting in Yokohama: > > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/agenda/agenda-94-netvc > > Any feedback about topics and timing should be provided no later than thi= s > Friday, October 23rd. > > /a > > > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > --001a1143fdfc411bf60522aa09d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Motion in Motion analysis: =C2=A0mig= ht be used a way of reducing motion compression complexity


Video=C2=A0Motion=C2=A0A= nalysis

= http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/2015/08/image-proce= ssing-algorithm-isolates-micro-movements-inside-macro-full-motion-video.html

=E2=80=9CThe research groups of Massachusetts I= nstitute of Technology (MIT; Cambridge, MA) professors of computer science = and engineering William Freeman and Fr=C3=A9do Durand have been investigati= ng techniques for amplifying movements captured by video but indiscernible = to the human eye; for example, versions of their=C2=A0image-processing algorithms=C2=A0can make the human pulse visible and even recover intelligible speec= h from the vibrations of objects filmed through soundproof glass.= =E2=80=9D

=

Jon M. Kelley

= Jon.M.Kelley@gmail.com


=


O= n Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 3:00 PM, <video-codec-request@ietf.org<= /a>> wrote:
Send video-codec ma= iling list submissions to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 video-c= odec@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/video-codec
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 video-codec-request@ietf.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 v= ideo-codec-owner@ietf.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of video-codec digest..."

Today's Topics:

=C2=A0 =C2=A01. Preliminary Agenda (Adam Roach)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:=C2=A0Adam Roach &l= t;adam@nostrum.com>
To:=C2=A0= "video-codec@ietf.org"= ; <video-codec@ietf.org><= br>Cc:=C2=A0
Date:=C2=A0Sat, 17 Oct 2015 15:14:45 -0500
Subject:=C2= =A0[video-codec] Preliminary Agenda
[as chair]

Based on requests received so far, we have a preliminary agenda available f= or the face-to-face meeting in Yokohama:

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/agend= a/agenda-94-netvc

Any feedback about topics and timing should be provided no later than this = Friday, October 23rd.

/a



_______________________________________________
video-codec mailing list
video-codec@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec


--001a1143fdfc411bf60522aa09d8-- From nobody Thu Oct 22 08:34:47 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1D41A7005 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MANGLED_TOOL=2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KxxX18Pz2qrm for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22e.google.com (mail-qg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 046F61A0370 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgem9 with SMTP id m9so59299589qge.1 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=nMTsb5zzIMe1w0RrcbolHifJW3scWzdN+J5zdRU0HGQ=; b=eWA20MemaknHxkY9w9cOOFfueIMGxG5t7O58abVqpeN9TccE6xSovV3uAcV0NrvOZd 7bKRwbZDY978OL3K/1JndpDkcdg4Qzlbm5F7fqKM1+VDqGihCHn1lG4KEt9/wy9bbpgx kqOTW8eAT6gM1CwC01IieBiJRen86HDm5ed9LDnM+pIdA/mYPVSvJSk0Jv4klO93pL62 qd0mC9rvuz87yyMgTbFYfIjr2rbpg/sB4xpzA5i6YZZwocrEeYoQ8JRpV3cnTqcZ4LhZ YokyZRuMMWXtA9j+SmUg+iO7+MDaSvc6/bGAx3QIRe2eHCDcJ0AfkXsK5+O8ZN6QpRZU Jb9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=nMTsb5zzIMe1w0RrcbolHifJW3scWzdN+J5zdRU0HGQ=; b=U087mPP0hMkPLrzAQh5Dvb01J3hNwJW8dd2sgf4Q4Kb08EdPBiWQCXXnnr/KISCNgh NI037A5sD5feXZNy7bRcok5r18UUV3cwoFeO1Od2Hdp6o4JNC/3DqEGdRX1BlJhwymdg m4KO3SkPhGV87hRp6fTURCNUE90C8T2JaVLWP7+DgWJ6tV2lfnwTi9Y10Gah83+7swHs 2T+OnfPLv/t5XhTttlj5dwdcFPdnD2Xw+kmjkIGW+M1FsHj7QLnkHtnT3BwNtS1RRECv 91sjEyvRY3TeJg5ve3EORjyWUVbGGEJCTT7wf9Mg/Nmwsl1m0jM6Lkx/tCxgr9AlkHmi YD+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlRbkfF5A4yPl+YK0Vq9St+GJcYXQCKVKAecMn9DiaY8i4TewtjASfmy/FcHT3ZweUPOqTc X-Received: by 10.140.100.207 with SMTP id s73mr19141128qge.47.1445527699998; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 139sm5517718qht.32.2015.10.22.08.28.18 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 08:28:18 -0700 (PDT) To: Steinar Midtskogen References: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56290091.1070305@mozilla.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:28:17 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050009020408080908020203" Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" , "Thomas Davies \(thdavies\)" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:28:23 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050009020408080908020203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi Steinar, On 10/22/2015 04:48 AM, Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > It looks like you're adjusting pixels by one if just one or more > neighbour is more than 1 higher or lower. I wouldn't expect that > to work. How does this work: > > y[i*ystride + j] = x + ((((x0 > x) + (x1 > x) + (x2 > x) + (x3 > x) > > 2) - ((x0 < x) + (x1 < x) + (x2 < x) + (x3 < x) > 2)) << 4); Indeed, I clearly saw the "> 2" in the draft... and then omitted it from my code. Using your code above, I am now getting a 3.1% improvement. Although it's still lower than what you report in the draft, it's not so far considering that our test set does not include the two clips that are giving you the highest gains. For example, I'm seeing that CLP at high rate improves BQTerrace by about 8% and Johnny by about 9%. In fact, at very high rate (> 0.2 bpp), the deringing filter and the CLP give very similar improvement. Deringing is mostly providing better gains compared to CLP when the bitrate drops around 0.05 to 0.1 bpp (depending on the clip). I'm attaching a PDF with the PSNR and PSNR-HVS curves for CLP and deringing compared to no filter. > Thomas implemented a simplified SAO for Thor for reference, just > edge offset and +/-1, but this gives most of the gains in H.265 > anyway. The objective gains in Thor were useful, but not very > convincing. I think Thor needs less deringing than H.265. Perhaps > it's because the interpolation filter is different (fewer taps, the > special 2,2 filter and possibly an improved frequency response). > > I will look into your filter, but I might not be able to implement > anything before the meeting. Well, most of the Daala code we have for the deringing filter should be directly applicable in Thor. I can help in adapting it too. The main thing that would be required from the existing Thor codebase is doing the buffering so that the deringing filter only gets applied on non-filtered pixels rather than "refiltering" some pixels. This is important because the filter is longer than for CLP, so we can't just avoid filtering on the superblock boundaries. So let me know if/when you're interesting in trying this. Cheers, Jean-Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWKQCPAAoJEJ6/8sItn9q9AAMH/i/732JHBpExb/GzyuD82wSv DCY+l868eLi+1ShLMYvcCBqmlIrkLxu9Ve+54BM7JYFJXHTyjva0urtjpCbqVqKT KlDBHNRenQzOWPTg3BpuhVfR2FYYgWVmW4mNy/40QZxzsIQh7tHG07gYk9BJa4hk A6ccLhUgIXYKdt3XWb3otrQhuAdTqQLSSARcdhDzXMGxsq/l8ti/M/Pm4Ptq+Vux WQGgGzzEnjjvRmQ+rWxhWt1gcee916MQmpPyx7+OZl7hlSrY0drukU17TYNzZfjp qbbtavpZlZ7sTWtOFiBQ97dPNXM70rBhuUEZfuQghw4QTx7WQeNulH/qdEUPp7E= =FeCq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------050009020408080908020203 Content-Type: application/pdf; name="clp_vs_deringing.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="clp_vs_deringing.pdf" JVBERi0xLjQKJcfsj6IKNSAwIG9iago8PC9MZW5ndGggNiAwIFIvRmlsdGVyIC9GbGF0ZURl Y29kZT4+CnN0cmVhbQp4nJ1XTW8cNwxFr/MrdJw9rCKK1FePAdoABRokzgI5JD05ruvCThon Rfvz+zTSaDhZtygWDuDNM/fp6YmiyM/GWTKu/vTf1w/Ts6tkbr9MnydmsZGS8c57G8gEjggr RpwU66J5vDFvzceJrScOYv7Cp2x+npx5MaVYbArZeE7epmIepkzJsgsDuZ/eTCFKsL6oqBBK 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[24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t74sm5656870qkl.25.2015.10.22.09.22.35 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) To: Steinar Midtskogen References: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> <56290091.1070305@mozilla.com> From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56290D4A.3010300@mozilla.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 12:22:34 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" , "Thomas Davies \(thdavies\)" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 16:22:40 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Hi Steinar, On 10/22/2015 12:05 PM, Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > 3.1% doesn't sound very unreasonable if this means you're applying > the filter to all coded blocks without any signalling. > > Thor has a bit for every 64x64 block, except blocks that are > entirely without coefficients (can still have vectors, though) or > entirely bi-predicted. Such blocks are never filtered. If a 64x64 > block is filtered, subblocks can still be left unchanged if they > lack coefficients or are bipred. > > The test whether to filter a 64x64 block or not is a simple > squared difference with the original block. If the sum for the > filtered block is less than the sum for the unfiltered block, the > filtered block is kept. Actually, the 3.1% is with signalling, in exactly the same way as we did the signalling for deringing or for the first CLP filter. The test is based on a PSNR-HVS-like metric compared to the original block. The flag is entropy coded (with context from the neighbouring blocks), with an RDO decision. Our superblock size is 32x32 so the cost is a little bit higher than for Thor, but not significantly so since we have entropy coding. We do not signal a flag on superblocks that are entirely skipped. For superblocks that are filtered, we still disable the filter in areas that are skipped. I believe this is pretty much what Thor does too. > It's interesting to see that the deringing also works reasonably > well for low bitrates where CLP is falling apart (though I believe > it still is useful subjectively). > > I did some experiments also signalling offsets larger than 1 (same > offset for every 64x64 block) which probably helps more at low > rates than at high rates. But even if I assumed zero signalling > costs, the gains weren't big. Indeed, for lower bitrates you need to be able to have larger offsets. The key is being able to avoid blurring out edges, which is what our deringing filter attempts to do. > An observation in Thor is the CLP filter works better if applied > after the deblocking filter and not before. I think SAO in H.265 > has a similar property. Yes, both CLP and deringing in Daala are applied after our lapping post-filter. We never tried applying it before, but I would not expect anything good to come out of it. Cheers, Jean-Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWKQ1IAAoJEJ6/8sItn9q9oEgH/3gN2aaDF9BW7724NTNWHjoK xsbvnvAD8GwiVm6VB7ryH34pWSle8Cm8bWJ2U58bjiTw0cU8sHvsV0HxaCsceNyf Cu1fpasJal1mWW1uOtSfvsjP4dyl0prq/mciHwCyG5Q66e2oKEKCyxCOm4hvQKgM guqa3jM178EC4WStdIdccFny6AHrp/N0qeweCayQuvYJHt6gw8wSucRiibEQNi3y 2b3NSk3npOJxO90B848KMKgwzu3Za+nqf/7sP56HQ3mydBhIFjsi3f1QdhpXFefl kTQpm+Ll1d9WAHVM4I+JHXqwH38qbRMrCiAz2Nz+XDa2GMlm06nc03sC088keRQ= =M9NR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Thu Oct 22 11:37:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553231B2BEF for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gDSqktyk12PJ for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x230.google.com (mail-qg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38B9A1B2BF8 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgeo38 with SMTP id o38so65006097qge.0 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=KZNxWp+q7CFNBs4UEGYO4j1o1Ayny8NeW2Q35jJUXw8=; b=oi7ojAWltnIVLlZkb99TmRWiEK7BLY9RRN+viIH8PruRwuV4VL1amUZG4Vr6RfUt/b 0hXXiYJQcRKZxsXKtG/doxWhc7PrRw1kCs5NmzFzDjmxufJ7NLpH6w8A5IpPRqYnoJCt J2f/WwH9jJAWrPeEFN0ZWLmVSKeFTSNW4rsBHHIhAexuZgfF4tXZUnfCBvpF6kZ9SjJH 3b9zkmtmqiqTjn8nv02rAE2/u/6PpBuwkPUqEPnaz+fTUxfAaq1zPmzTIH0v6jF5RveD PWO9fjau4KDTiZAHShfRS9nRJNWL42Hhps3/gvJZEAl6QNxzV5UWTRGGd0MG/+D4/MJe GB+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KZNxWp+q7CFNBs4UEGYO4j1o1Ayny8NeW2Q35jJUXw8=; b=NqXNNmRkkinoxz+oQqjbnpCe3rqLXXHT2P5H39n3kzYLS7FeG4qC0tr2+3fr8CjLYa DGGOXFKqdmzze0ZmaNrks54zcbvTz4tb/WIDxCDcK4LeLZTcXva7V6WKv4w0wh84Fnaq LYA7opQpdyWydO2iGPp7lMXouuY1YBBxRaobwQfm4WFGxrqECJEz7Qe9GTJLUOTHNUpn q8xaJhRMjMWwTrNGfEuN1TCHa5p0dkfKdSjqVHwSRj2mBbPQQTIHilqiMc85SByLI47G 8YxxADsLEiQ9eZB79NQXsd8f/Y/I020G5sjjsLGkDbiNjG6Uv+NQC1hFh6kCPCjkUYl/ AX9w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnOaZNMmnJJlYYkPO1WezcSDvFDGLNQT57BeHDcHzpQCKmS2kWG5jWPU5KjRFn1FU42F7X4 X-Received: by 10.140.109.74 with SMTP id k68mr21052532qgf.77.1445539028206; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g197sm5831647qhc.35.2015.10.22.11.37.06 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:37:07 -0700 (PDT) To: Steinar Midtskogen References: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> <56290091.1070305@mozilla.com> <56290D4A.3010300@mozilla.com> From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56292CD2.3050606@mozilla.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 14:37:06 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "video-codec@ietf.org" , "Thomas Davies \(thdavies\)" Subject: Re: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2015 18:37:12 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 10/22/2015 12:50 PM, Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > If it's an easy experiment, what happens if you apply both the > deringing and the CLP filter (either order), or try to replace the > secondary deringing filter with CLP? Just ran the following experiments: 1) running CLP after the second deringing filter 2) running CLP before the first deringing filter 3) running CLP instead of the second deringing filter Of these, the best one was 2), but all three are slightly worse than running the deringing filter alone. This isn't so surprising considering that CLP is attempting to do something quite similar to deringing. Jean-Marc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWKSzLAAoJEJ6/8sItn9q9T7AH+gKwF7WdFOUolTqaDBB3Xcnd sYnMNSFzKi6M2NNJIfnqTCvw2Pyo8c56QAZ+7BJm93aoYbPMWfIv/fhKxGorK6kW HrK0B0RBjfuYGxApuxEkmZDzpru5ckSqDxqFHSJQzEPGQuc2DfnuzFpxvcH+gJ4h SVJn7YHSW14dpCNaxNyCG9GHAFi7Avw6cCrpJ0omQ1/4KCJ6aMPF110xRFPi2Rtz L5hIVFiqChlATLXTDDq7C0EIc9f/BetGlKEC8BqT1i2wPu9wAVe3tt5OwK5mRkzV qsoF2wa66t6hye5C+K1lR9C0ikIgwUyZ6MfTgcjj/6Rgru2+lE/Bz4SoFX7f9kY= =HWyt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Fri Oct 23 03:13:08 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797031B3455 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 03:13:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id doM9cTvdBEqo for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 871911B3453 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 03:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=28805; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1445595184; x=1446804784; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=XJfHyy8he4G5uw6b3stE4Aq4FTHMaDVsYpiNX6I9BDo=; b=dI32Lv6mM0aRGA5s4cdUAPvvl2dNqghxTDOWTam88o9wy+Fwa+v2/gO4 KgZQM/9ME0Tb6bT4SJrLM4sNbNrIRZwqHwH9iTQ2bzvLtONP/LJdrD7LR SHbHuisp3gb3fyT+8eo2djE+Yh658CLYRjbPVwcMdBU7TDX80rkdX9tiP g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0D6AQARBypW/4sNJK1egmlNVG8GviEBDYFZIYV8AoFFOBQBAQEBAQEBfwuEMwEBBC1cAgFAAQYHMg8FEQIEEwiIKA3FNQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARiGd4oHC4QuBY0UhUmDTgF5hB+HfoFfSIN3jUSISgEfAQFChANyAYU8gQYBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,186,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217";a="201139245" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 23 Oct 2015 10:13:03 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (xch-aln-001.cisco.com [173.36.7.11]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9NAD22K026402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:13:02 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com (173.36.7.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 05:12:41 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Fri, 23 Oct 2015 05:12:41 -0500 From: "Arild Fuldseth (arilfuld)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Thor drafts Thread-Index: AQHRDPjhhUllCvN8jEGPnue9Ecg/U5543I9w Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:12:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.54.92.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_cf843f061fb2494689cedbd13fba3a68XCHRCD001ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Thor drafts X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2015 10:13:06 -0000 --_000_cf843f061fb2494689cedbd13fba3a68XCHRCD001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, The latest update to the Thor draft (-01) includes two main changes, along = with some editorial changes. 1. Biprediction: A new biprediction technique synthesizes new reference fra= mes using interpolation from other reference frames. A separate draft (draf= t-davies-netvc-irfvc-00) was submitted on this technique which may be usabl= e by other codecs beyond Thor. 2. Low Pass Filter: The original Constrained Low Pass Filter, which is an i= n-loop filter separate from the deblocking filter, was updated with a new d= esign. A separate draft (draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf-00) was submitted on t= his filter which may be usable by other codecs beyond Thor. It covers the g= eneralized filter as well as the specific simplifications used in the Thor = implementation. Regards, Thor team On 10/19/15, internet-drafts@ietf.org > wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mo Zanaty and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor Revision: 01 Title: Thor Video Codec Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 26 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fuldseth-netvc-t= hor-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-fuldseth-netvc-th= or-01 Abstract: This document provides a high-level description of the Thor video codec. Thor is designed to achieve high compression efficiency with moderate complexity, using the well-known hybrid video coding approach of motion-compensated prediction and transform coding. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat On 10/19/15, internet-drafts@ietf.org > wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Thomas Davies and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-davies-netvc-irfvc Revision: 00 Title: Interpolated reference frames for video coding Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 8 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-davies-netvc-irf= vc-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00 Abstract: This document describes the use of interpolated reference frames in video coding in general, and in the Thor video codec in particular. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat On 10/19/15, internet-drafts@ietf.org > wrote: A new version of I-D, draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Mo Zanaty and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf Revision: 00 Title: Constrained Low Pass Filter Document date: 2015-10-19 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 8 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-midtskogen-netvc= -clpf-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-midtskogen-netvc-clp= f/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf-00 Abstract: This document describes a low complexity filtering technique which is being used as a low pass loop filter in the Thor video codec. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --_000_cf843f061fb2494689cedbd13fba3a68XCHRCD001ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 <= /p>

The latest upda= te to the Thor draft (-01) includes two main changes, along with some edito= rial changes.

 

1. Biprediction: A new bipredi= ction technique synthesizes new reference frames using interpolation from o= ther reference frames. A separate draft (draft-davies-netvc-irfvc-00) was submitted on this technique which may be usable by other codecs beyond= Thor.

 

2. Low Pass Filter: The origin= al Constrained Low Pass Filter, which is an in-loop filter separate from th= e deblocking filter, was updated with a new design. A separate draft (draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf-00) was submitted on this filter which = may be usable by other codecs beyond Thor. It covers the generalized filter= as well as the specific simplifications used in the Thor implementation.

 

Regards,

Thor team 

 

 

 

A new version of I-D, draft-fu= ldseth-netvc-thor-01.txt

has been successfully submitte= d by Mo Zanaty and posted to the

IETF repository.

 

Name:           &nb= sp;       draft-fuldseth-netvc-thor

Revision:           = ;    01

Title:           &n= bsp;          Thor Video Codec

Document date:    2015-10-19

Group:           &n= bsp;       Individual Submission

Pages:           &n= bsp;      26

 

Abstract:

   This document pro= vides a high-level description of the Thor video

   codec.  = ;Thor is designed to achieve high compression efficiency with

   moderate complexi= ty, using the well-known hybrid video coding

   approach of motio= n-compensated prediction and transform coding.

 

Please note that it may take a= couple of minutes from the time of submission

until the htmlized version and= diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

 

The IETF Secretariat

 

 

 

A new version of I-D, draft-davies-netvc-i= rfvc-00.txt

has been successfully submitted by Thomas = Davies and posted to the<= /span>

IETF repository.

 

Name:        draft-dav= ies-netvc-irfvc

Revision:    00

Title:        Interpol= ated reference frames for video coding

Document date:    2015-10-19

Group:        Individu= al Submission

Pages:        8=

 

Abstract:

  This document describes the use of = interpolated reference frames in

  video coding in general, and in the= Thor video codec in particular.

 

Please note that it may take a couple of m= inutes from the time of submission

until the htmlized version and diff are av= ailable at tools.ietf.org.

 

The IETF Secretariat

 

 

 

A new version of I-D, draft-mi= dtskogen-netvc-clpf-00.txt

has been successfully submitte= d by Mo Zanaty and posted to the

IETF repository.

 

Name:           &nb= sp;       draft-midtskogen-netvc-clpf

Revision:           = ;    00

Title:           &n= bsp;          Constrained Low Pass Filter

Document date:    2015-10-19

Group:           &n= bsp;       Individual Submission

Pages:           &n= bsp;      8

 

Abstract:

   This document des= cribes a low complexity filtering technique which is

   being used as a l= ow pass loop filter in the Thor video codec.

 

Please note that it may take a= couple of minutes from the time of submission

until the htmlized version and= diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

 

The IETF Secretariat

 

--_000_cf843f061fb2494689cedbd13fba3a68XCHRCD001ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Oct 29 09:41:56 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07B61B2FD4 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MANGLED_TOOL=2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2B7oCh3UsDg for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73CE11B2FD0 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicfv8 with SMTP id fv8so48592256wic.0 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=xvhN991zg5nZhs8tPDDldw9ISHfN48GDk7bxrmjExLo=; b=a5S8qSqzdhiLSTjsEjeH0Sh+QstDZpFtf/quJwEAvqjXeOwkFl7ygk067RedAgrzUP hc9A1uy2+ClwQUSz6W7vQVKiMcQ+L7Z8ivhrqCKplalJi32KOiRAemVZgj/ejkrWmbWY ynr7+yt9JjItcNuOe1oDHU8SZwhY68irEefMsb3TiOjMueRNQz+ZxPBC6f4UwPWM/n+d Zx4/MqWA0N3/SZ4jjPYxyHKqAD4bBBTUvbHyR/AZv/LIWEPOq0qAWCXIq/dvWUAZhqQx dA3VY6ZBvUjMcjG2riQPJt/Srkf2uIAZiYeLg9QYKzLEPLHOUvHHLlbag0sI/1gLqL49 b/+w== X-Received: by 10.194.122.42 with SMTP id lp10mr3924403wjb.51.1446136912905; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([149.200.191.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4sm2609086wjz.29.2015.10.29.09.41.51 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:41:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:41:40 +0300 From: Mohammad AlSaleh To: video-codec@ietf.org Message-ID: <20151029164140.GA8422@mail> References: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:41:56 -0000 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 05:07:30PM -0400, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi Steinar, Thomas, > > I saw your new constrained low pass filter draft for Thor and decided > to start experimenting with it. Putting the filter in Daala, I saw a > PSNR bd-rate improvement around 2.1% in the 0.05 bpp to 0.1 bpp range > over our ntt-short1 test set (I disabled our deringing filter for this > comparison to avoid the interactions). However, I was unable to see > improvements of 4-7% like you are reporting in the draft. > > Of course, it's quite likely that I messed up the implementation or > the adaptation to Daala. It's also possible that somehow Daala cannot > benefit from the CLP as much as Thor does. This is the code I wrote > for filtering a small block of pixels: > https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8850049 > I've had to do some adaptation since the Daala pixels are shifted up > by 4 at the point where we're applying the filter. Does this look > correct to you? > > The other experiment that would be nice to try is using the Daala > deringing filter in Thor. In Daala, our deringing filter is improving > PSNR bd-rate by about a 6.5% in the 0.05 bpp to 0.1 bpp range. The > deringing filter is documented in this IETF draft: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-00 > or (for those who don't like ASCII equations) in this pdf: > http://jmvalin.ca/notes/dir_dering.pdf > I uploaded some still image examples at: > http://jmvalin.ca/video/deringing_examples/ > Any interest in trying the Daala deringing filter in Thor? Looking at chapel subjectively, I think an option to use a weaker filter would be helpful. Generally, the filter gives good subjective results. But some of the details might get lost (e.g. the last steps leading to the chapel). From nobody Thu Oct 29 10:39:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F6EF1B307C for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4fUidJuFyxML for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22a.google.com (mail-qg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 370421B307B for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgad10 with SMTP id d10so40641369qga.3 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jmvalin_ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1NTB3l6kJUQGNBFZj+t/910a/n/CiDQcKcoVnsvhDLg=; b=wGN2KYhCGNUh05yoXYu6hS5YY3YQEC9ejmizf0P2lrqTUmPyU8HaAu7tx/v+qnl0E5 /aJSRfO1K95yQOdTFehWl+JP+XG03xw13eGPxpA5yypIo6+5zsOwn2ZsncS8kNLLcjoo R4R8CXKG2UwvD7sWZwb+bLam5bcIlTKo0m8NWrqfj69I3oerxdvR+PhcrQrbzyjY6aib DiOyU3zQ9gzpme2Pu79ODV/VIp2Xw800NfBLMmbOxGuOsPXOTiCPLkPIVnlj/p4kLIac WqdUNA6aDYw+jKU5rwDg2UX6ZtJ8chdERa1gkQx/1uWTdMNB2HX9geagwgMeuoSY9RfA 16TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1NTB3l6kJUQGNBFZj+t/910a/n/CiDQcKcoVnsvhDLg=; b=jisdx09r8QERwL5eaCprQdYh0P93t1eGnqID7GfBSThNArBn44tr0DsDAIBifC1+zq Kk1B+FvTt4W5rQxmh9QN8xgBLzdWfL2AZqwJDRz91tKJ+OEz4mWoa91W4sgytygz9f7P g2/hjfQH/NBTKVB1k8yUb8FEgvFPoJPTzvePjPYmyMYHNuarl0Gi78wo+ScAh/tKP6UL D2D0QdIApUXpbpDi/R9y9GS3h8+ilUAvDs4Xs4CZBGp2FUFEQEx4ohmke5EQn/qh0LSf e+yxfHaoO558kiLGYFRT7mWpWSM1X7tl6X7yoGQGZDGTIggVJozdcesPiO0m4LFbF3Sr MpJA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlchqnjFZZf1TJenf3Z70mR6UeElk7DNTojqXZwlW/0MTbhhxQOGd/SYOQkykaCEhw3r+m2 X-Received: by 10.140.167.69 with SMTP id n66mr2232323qhn.41.1446140390385; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable074.170-201-24.mc.videotron.ca. [24.201.170.74]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m73sm952399qkl.6.2015.10.29.10.39.49 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:49 -0700 (PDT) To: Mohammad AlSaleh , video-codec@ietf.org References: <5627FE92.4010704@mozilla.com> <20151029164140.GA8422@mail> From: Jean-Marc Valin Message-ID: <563259E4.8090609@jmvalin.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:39:48 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151029164140.GA8422@mail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Daala deringing filter vs Thor constrained low pass filter X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:39:52 -0000 On 10/29/2015 12:41 PM, Mohammad AlSaleh wrote: > Looking at chapel subjectively, I think an option to use a weaker > filter would be helpful. > > Generally, the filter gives good subjective results. But some of > the details might get lost (e.g. the last steps leading to the chapel). It isn't really a matter of stronger vs weaker filter. The encoder can turn the deringing filter on/off for every superblock, so any issue would come down to how the encoder made the decision to keep the filtered superblock. For example, the distortion function could be missing something, or the encoder could be deciding to "sacrifice" some region of the superblock to make another region better. Cheers, Jean-Marc From nobody Sat Oct 31 10:28:26 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B621B2C0F for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:28:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7jdIurynNijU for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30A991B2C0B for ; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:28:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11913; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1446312495; x=1447522095; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=Vu/bn8yf+NeuykMlXcKsouXzi++Fkl3PYuCgMU2aJu0=; b=aec7zaJDVkM70+ZZlIWrthuLFGZ0IFymHRl7oyQTaLCPoRqC4fIR06QR CIKH8noZ7k/wScf142pEHek1WAI1+oxidPApPs796CKrY/UKOMMIBGbaO 9UN33Bp3lMbqJcgLJDMJc0eqAg8NqMEEl+NgVapCmA/IKuAOA+6eGv4Ba 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CsAwCs+TRW/4kNJK1egztTb64TkHYrAQ2BWhcBC4UsSgKBGjgUAQEBAQEBAX8LhDUBAQEEAQEBawsQAgEdAg0bByEGCxQHAggCBA4FFIgHAxINviYNhEIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYhneCEIJuglOBdEQRgxCBFAWHRY4+QAGFHIJwgyKBdoFZSIN3jlGDX4NxAREOAQFChARyAYQ0gUkBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.20,224,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="40909581" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 31 Oct 2015 17:28:13 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (xch-rcd-005.cisco.com [173.37.102.15]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t9VHSDOL015417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:28:13 GMT Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) by XCH-RCD-005.cisco.com (173.37.102.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:28:13 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com ([173.36.7.15]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:28:12 -0500 From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: CELLAR charter available for external review! Thread-Index: AQHRE/O2ANvXQZGUaUesGkARNSr+Wp6F2yKF Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:28:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F5574BD353D24FFFB301F845FF2DEFAEciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "tessa.fallon@gmail.com" , "adam@nostrum.com" Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: CELLAR charter available for external review! X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:28:22 -0000 --_000_F5574BD353D24FFFB301F845FF2DEFAEciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NETVC, A new workgroup has been proposed for lossless audiovisual archival includi= ng coding, transmission and storage. The NETVC charter and current work is = not focused on lossless coding, but some participants may also be intereste= d in this. If so, please send any comments on the proposed charter and work= to iesg@ietf.org by Nov 9, as indicated below. Regards, Mo (as chair) ____________ From: The IESG > To: "IETF-Announce" > Cc: cellar@ietf.org Subject: WG Review: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime tran= smission (cellar) A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications and Real-Time Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg at ietf.org) by 2015-11-09. Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) ------------------------------------------------ Current Status: Proposed WG Chairs: Tessa Fallon > Assigned Area Director: Ben Campbell > Mailing list Address: cellar@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/ Charter: The preservation of audiovisual materials faces challenges from technological obsolescence, analog media deterioration, and the use of proprietary formats that lack formal open standards. While obsolescence and material degradation are widely addressed, the standardization of open, transparent, self-descriptive, lossless formats remains an important mission to be undertaken by the open source community. FFV1 is a lossless video codec and Matroska is an extensible media container based on EBML (Extensible Binary Meta Language), a binary XML format. There are open source implementations of both formats, and an increasing interest in and support for use of FFV1 and Matroska. However, there are concerns about the sustainability and credibility of existing specifications for the long-term use of these formats. These existing specifications require broader review and formalization in order to encourage widespread adoption. There is also a need for a lossless audio format to complement the lossless video codec and container format. FLAC is a lossless audio codec that has seen widespread adoption in a number of different applications including archival applications. While there are open source implementations of the codec, no formal standards for either the codec itself or its use in container formats currently exist. Review and formalization of the FLAC codec standard and its use in Matroska container formats is needed for wider adoption. Using existing work done by the development communities of Matroska, FFV1, and FLAC, the Working Group will formalize specifications for these open and lossless formats. In order to provide authoritative, standardized specifications for users and developers, the Working Group will seek consensus throughout the process of refining and formalizing these standards. Initial specifications can be accessed here: Specifications: - FFV1: https://mediaarea.net/temp/ffv1.html - Matroska: http://matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html - EBML: http://matroska-org.github.io/libebml/specs.html - FLAC: https://xiph.org/flac/format.html Development Versions: - FFV1: https://github.com/ffmpeg/ffv1 - Matroska: https://github.com/Matroska-Org/foundation-source/blob/master/spectool/spec= data.xml - EBML: https://github.com/Matroska-Org/ebml-specification The Working Group will seek consensus and refinements for specifications for both FFV1 and Matroska in order to provide authoritative, standardized specifications for users and developers. Backward compatibility with existing versions 0-3 of the FFV1 and Matroska specifications will be an important goal, while also reviewing and refining the current version 4 under active development. Although not encouraged, non-backwards-compatible changes to the input specifications will be acceptable if the Working Group determines that the modifications are required to meet the group's technical objectives, provided that the reasons for these changes are clearly documented. Deliverables: - Informational specification for Matroska container format versions 1, 2 and 3 to IESG for publication - Standards Track specification for Matroska container format version 4 to IESG for publication - Informational specification for FFV1 video codec versions 0, 1 and 3 to IESG for publication - Standards Track specification for FFV1 video codec version 4 to IESG for publication - Standards Track specification for FLAC audio codec to IESG for publication Milestones: TBD --_000_F5574BD353D24FFFB301F845FF2DEFAEciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
NETVC,

A new workgroup has been proposed for lossless audiovisual archival includi= ng coding, transmission and storage. The NETVC charter and current work is = not focused on lossless coding, but some participants may also be intereste= d in this. If so, please send any comments on the proposed charter and work to iesg@ietf.org by Nov 9, as indicated below. 

Regards,
Mo (as chair)

____________

From: The IESG <iesg-secretar=
y@ietf.org>
To: "IETF-Announce" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: cellar@ietf.org=20
Subject: WG Review: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime tran=
smission (cellar)

A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications and
Real-Time Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The
following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational
purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg
at ietf.org) by 2015-11-09.

Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar)
------------------------------------------------
Current Status: Proposed WG

Chairs:
  Tessa Fallon <tessa.fallon@g=
mail.com>

Assigned Area Director:
  Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com&g=
t;

Mailing list
  Address: cellar@ietf.org
  To Subscribe: ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar
  Archive: htt=
ps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/

Charter:

The preservation of audiovisual materials faces challenges from
technological obsolescence, analog media deterioration, and the use of
proprietary  formats that lack formal open standards. While obsolescence
and material degradation are widely addressed, the standardization of
open, transparent, self-descriptive, lossless formats remains an
important mission to be undertaken by the open source community.
=20
FFV1 is a lossless video codec and Matroska is an extensible media
container based on EBML (Extensible Binary Meta Language), a binary XML
format. There are open source implementations of both formats, and an
increasing interest in and support for use of FFV1 and Matroska. However,
there are concerns about the sustainability and credibility of existing
specifications for the long-term use of these formats. These existing
specifications require broader review and formalization in order to
encourage widespread adoption.
=20
There is also a need for a lossless audio format to complement the
lossless video codec and container format. FLAC is a lossless audio codec
that has seen widespread adoption in a number of different applications
including archival applications. While there are open source
implementations of the codec, no formal standards for either the codec
itself or its use in container formats currently exist. Review and
formalization of the FLAC codec standard and its use in Matroska
container formats is needed for wider adoption.
=20
Using existing work done by the development communities of Matroska,
FFV1, and FLAC, the Working Group will formalize specifications for these
open and lossless formats. In order to provide authoritative,
standardized specifications for users and developers, the Working Group
will seek consensus throughout the process of refining and formalizing
these standards. Initial specifications can be accessed here:
=20
Specifications:
- FFV1: https://mediaarea.=
net/temp/ffv1.html
- Matroska: http=
://matroska.org/technical/specs/index.html
- EBML: http:/=
/matroska-org.github.io/libebml/specs.html
- FLAC: https://xiph.org/flac=
/format.html

Development Versions:
- FFV1: https://github.com/ffmpe=
g/ffv1
- Matroska:
https://github.com/Matroska-Org/foundation-source/blob=
/master/spectool/specdata.xml
-  EBML: htt=
ps://github.com/Matroska-Org/ebml-specification
=20
The Working Group will seek consensus and refinements for specifications
for both FFV1 and Matroska in order to provide authoritative,
standardized specifications for users and developers. Backward
compatibility with existing versions 0-3 of the FFV1 and Matroska
specifications will be an important goal, while also reviewing and
refining the current version 4 under active development. Although not
encouraged, non-backwards-compatible changes to the input specifications
will be acceptable if the Working Group determines that the modifications
are required to meet the group's technical objectives, provided that the
reasons for these changes are clearly documented.=20
=20
Deliverables:
- Informational specification for Matroska container format versions 1, 2
and 3 to IESG for publication
- Standards Track specification for Matroska container format version 4
to IESG for publication
- Informational specification for FFV1 video codec versions 0, 1 and 3 to
IESG for publication
- Standards Track specification for FFV1 video codec version 4 to IESG
for publication
- Standards Track specification for FLAC audio codec to IESG for
publication


Milestones:

TBD

--_000_F5574BD353D24FFFB301F845FF2DEFAEciscocom_--