From nobody Fri Mar 4 08:27:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245E01A01F0 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 08:27:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v4Nie27DWtWU for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 08:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317FC1A01EA for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 08:27:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5343; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1457108846; x=1458318446; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=6KOLhalNDus6/AdbagQdWA+hZhJedlQfw8wVEe94VQ8=; b=JfOr/BdBEDvCTY2nkDkx0AIgJgxxY7vRjzQqILZSnD6nydY9y71DyDgc jUbRXvvUB5sd4vuCsBR89MkXnEmEE7L/IddZoVppB6YbNH3wmeDnIh0U0 zWJvJfoj+VVc8peIfsm8+U8VySfMut6KhHK3dBstw84oKf3wwIauuTc3R o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ADAgAWt9lW/5RdJa1TBAaDOlJtBro0A?= =?us-ascii?q?Q2BaRcKhW4CgTc4FAEBAQEBAQFkHAuEQQEBAQQBAQE3NAQTBAIBCBEEAQEfCQc?= =?us-ascii?q?nCxQJCAIEEQIIiBoOvW0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYhheDP32EDxqESgWXI?= =?us-ascii?q?QGFXYgDgWlLg3mIU45RAR4BAUKDZT8riDB+AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,536,1449532800"; d="scan'208";a="77726974" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 04 Mar 2016 16:27:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (xch-aln-015.cisco.com [173.36.7.25]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u24GRPs9015126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 16:27:25 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:27:24 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com ([173.37.102.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:27:24 -0600 From: "Thomas Davies (thdavies)" To: "video-codec@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHRc2Nrs42swrkORkmGH+r4glDPf59Jb+hA Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 16:27:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20160301023814.1728.87355.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160301023814.1728.87355.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.75.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 16:27:28 -0000 I have reviewed this and my main comment is that the testing draft reads as= a description of the kind of tests that could be done, and the sort of mea= surements that could be made, and does not specify the precise test conditi= ons and metrics that should be used.=20 I think to make progress in the group having some common test conditions sp= ecified so that tools and technologies can be compared, and the exact minim= al sets of results that should be reported, would be good. The common test= conditions should specify codec configurations for the two codecs that hav= e so far been proposed, quality/qp settings, test sequences, anchors, BDR m= etric calculations and so on. They should also not be so onerous that it re= quires a compute farm to run them. The test sets mentioned in the draft are quite large, and each group contai= ns a lot of very similar material. Running simulations in high complexity m= ode for Daala or Thor for multiple data points across the whole test set ta= kes hundreds of CPU hours. So it would be valuable to identify a core small= er set of sequences, and simulation parameters to be reported on, as part o= f the common test conditions. These could be periodically checked against t= he larger test sets for representativeness. The draft refers to the BDR calculation tool provided as part of the AreWeC= ompressedYet. It would be useful to specify mathematically what this calcul= ation is, as whilst there are multiple implementations of the original BDR = calculation, the only implementation of the spline-interpolated version is = in these scripts. Having a specification means that these scripts can be te= sted for sanity also. I think it also needs to be specified how BDR numbers from tests should be = aggregated to produce a BDR figure for a category or a whole test set. AWCY= does an unusual thing in computing a combined BDR as if all the individual= sequences had been concatenated. This means that the sequence with the lar= gest bit rate tends to dominate, and the correlation between the metrics an= d visual quality is worsened, since this is quite strong for single sequenc= es, but pretty weak across sequences. Potentially this number is very misl= eading. I think averaging the BDR figures for individual sequences would be= much better, and that should be mandated in the draft. The draft requires that at least 10 samples should be used. I think this de= pends on the range that you want to cover, and whether it is necessary to c= over very low and very high rates, and also what metrics are being tested. = FASTSSIM is the least log-linear metric, and does tend to require more poin= ts. But it also has the most unpredictable relation with quality, sometimes= indicating big losses when there are visual improvements, sometimes vice-v= ersa. So I am not so sure that a large number of points should be mandated.= Only 4 were deemed necessary for AVC and HEVC standardization. The draft mentions three bit rate ranges, and it implies that BDR should be= computed for them individually. That seemed like a good idea initially but= since experimenting with this I've found it pretty problematic, because BD= R requires an overlap in *quality* ranges, not bit rate ranges. Therefore t= wo curves being compared may not overlap at all, or very much. In some case= s it has also proved impossible to configure a codec to provide data points= that cover the whole of the upper or the whole of the lower range. On the = AWCY tool, this results in missing data and invalidates all the aggregate B= DR values.=20 Best regards Thomas -----Original Message----- From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of intern= et-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 2:38 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Internet Video Codec of the IETF. Title : Video Codec Testing and Quality Measurement Authors : Thomas Daede Andrey Norkin Filename : draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2016-02-29 Abstract: This document describes guidelines and procedures for evaluating a video codec specified at the IETF. This covers subjective and objective tests, test conditions, and materials used for the test. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-testing/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netvc-testing-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ video-codec mailing list video-codec@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec From nobody Fri Mar 4 15:24:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5461AC411 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:24:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KYCN4relwdN3 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com (mail-pf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 245791AC413 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 4so43051276pfd.1 for ; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:24:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZVwInxxnka9U1EulkcSHP+NVWBMufxhuLOszYYKu9DY=; b=km1LD2JvHGBbHsiZFIE0yxoQJm0k7jvh/iK0DwIXET/vk3+8e7tAMSLSnZTAC6Cdft S7KoIF59lJGnwXjs8Rsoe5cMfJPujiuO9Vb7qx/uoVt2cUZkp58H7DoHAT2scVrl9YQr qsA+ggWJErLnBqkJgY8JtJNxdXVLfvGdSiP58EbMSNuMPZS0qmT3o7qvQpdi9xfMV/Wa ByLbRJ8U/eTmjUWs26iWrH3oYNCTCp/GBeRmitfWXEzaTCjN8SCii7Lxia5bfYcrPisn 9cKHjg6t9i+mKDo2UG5STHOwR2ASagUcuU0yEj1PBFibjhcfIMeCX+sCpD7lATkiUdXs A0og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZVwInxxnka9U1EulkcSHP+NVWBMufxhuLOszYYKu9DY=; b=QMlzM3rgYKSbxwgDOdaD+QlG0VrT7vUEBT+jjOzfiVIb5x5fRrIlPbNOnN2HkWH1Uy LKujBrVMCqtMUPbZ0bxmdLSLZXdpYjZCNjE2EMiOttWqmoy7pioaPMNgPfiY5y4Y3gsu UT/auuDN+N8o0ie+9L/tdnRfQpgu7xEDQLkH3H6AnNBw0VHYwdQlU1fedDYiJekz4Qcy 03EcMp6E0tAEB1wRvKkGDKgdn4ooAb31qlQ/3jyyn2HzK1m+NQzXV27lyknK04WBOyBL u0CaruKNNPt5+zU835V3Pss82XdJui5JlQdI86B8IBrg5smZA8KA2cCS5sun5cimBcVO OYHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJ93+HK93I7zOAX0/Rv0ZlzRA0ctNYcn5SI6CmXHvGHXg/D/6rvXHLUSxm7TNtjUm7k X-Received: by 10.98.11.217 with SMTP id 86mr15683544pfl.71.1457133845617; Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i23sm7853298pfj.68.2016.03.04.15.24.03 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 Mar 2016 15:24:04 -0800 (PST) To: video-codec@ietf.org References: <20160301023814.1728.87355.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Thomas Daede X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56DA1912.8020203@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 15:24:02 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 23:24:11 -0000 On 03/04/2016 08:27 AM, Thomas Davies (thdavies) wrote: > I have reviewed this and my main comment is that the testing draft reads as a description of the kind of tests that could be done, and the sort of measurements that could be made, and does not specify the precise test conditions and metrics that should be used. > > I think to make progress in the group having some common test conditions specified so that tools and technologies can be compared, and the exact minimal sets of results that should be reported, would be good. The common test conditions should specify codec configurations for the two codecs that have so far been proposed, quality/qp settings, test sequences, anchors, BDR metric calculations and so on. They should also not be so onerous that it requires a compute farm to run them. > > The test sets mentioned in the draft are quite large, and each group contains a lot of very similar material. Running simulations in high complexity mode for Daala or Thor for multiple data points across the whole test set takes hundreds of CPU hours. So it would be valuable to identify a core smaller set of sequences, and simulation parameters to be reported on, as part of the common test conditions. These could be periodically checked against the larger test sets for representativeness. I'll update the draft with the exact sequences specified for the categories in "Automation". For feature changes, I think having a total # of frames of content similar to that used in HEVC testing would be reasonable. > The draft refers to the BDR calculation tool provided as part of the AreWeCompressedYet. It would be useful to specify mathematically what this calculation is, as whilst there are multiple implementations of the original BDR calculation, the only implementation of the spline-interpolated version is in these scripts. Having a specification means that these scripts can be tested for sanity also. One of the downsides of the cubic hermite spline (or similar alternatives, like pchip) is that it's somewhat complex to specify. I also think it would be great to specify it in the test document, rather than rely on a certain implementation. > I think it also needs to be specified how BDR numbers from tests should be aggregated to produce a BDR figure for a category or a whole test set. AWCY does an unusual thing in computing a combined BDR as if all the individual sequences had been concatenated. This means that the sequence with the largest bit rate tends to dominate, and the correlation between the metrics and visual quality is worsened, since this is quite strong for single sequences, but pretty weak across sequences. Potentially this number is very misleading. I think averaging the BDR figures for individual sequences would be much better, and that should be mandated in the draft. Sounds good, proposing this text in the BD-Rate section: ### Result aggregation Total BD-Rate changes for a set of test clips should be calculated by the average of the rate change (in percent) calculated for each test clip. > The draft requires that at least 10 samples should be used. I think this depends on the range that you want to cover, and whether it is necessary to cover very low and very high rates, and also what metrics are being tested. FASTSSIM is the least log-linear metric, and does tend to require more points. But it also has the most unpredictable relation with quality, sometimes indicating big losses when there are visual improvements, sometimes vice-versa. So I am not so sure that a large number of points should be mandated. Only 4 were deemed necessary for AVC and HEVC standardization. I realized I specified two numbers in this section - I think I'll drop the 10 sample requirement, and rely on the "4 samples within the measured range". This implies at least 6 samples, unless the ranges coincide exactly with the sample points. > The draft mentions three bit rate ranges, and it implies that BDR should be computed for them individually. That seemed like a good idea initially but since experimenting with this I've found it pretty problematic, because BDR requires an overlap in *quality* ranges, not bit rate ranges. Therefore two curves being compared may not overlap at all, or very much. In some cases it has also proved impossible to configure a codec to provide data points that cover the whole of the upper or the whole of the lower range. On the AWCY tool, this results in missing data and invalidates all the aggregate BDR values. Bit rates are mapped to qualities based on the first curve. However, this does not solve the issue that codecs can't hit the required bitrate (this is most apparent in the Twitch set.) Options include: a) Choosing bit rate ranges per test sequence. b) Choosing bit rate ranges high enough for all test sequences covered. c) Defining ranges based on quantizers of the first curve. d) Defining ranges based on the intersection of qualities bounded by the quantizers for both curves. e) Defining ranges based on quantizers of a third, reference curve. I think you might have suggested option e) to me before. I'm going to try an implementation of it on the AWCY site. > Best regards > > Thomas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: video-codec [mailto:video-codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 2:38 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: video-codec@ietf.org > Subject: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Internet Video Codec of the IETF. > > Title : Video Codec Testing and Quality Measurement > Authors : Thomas Daede > Andrey Norkin > Filename : draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2016-02-29 > > Abstract: > This document describes guidelines and procedures for evaluating a > video codec specified at the IETF. This covers subjective and > objective tests, test conditions, and materials used for the test. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-testing/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netvc-testing-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > From nobody Fri Mar 11 15:07:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietf.org Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E05812DE6E; Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:05:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.16.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160311230540.15028.55813.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 15:05:40 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: video-codec@ietf.org, alissa@cooperw.in Subject: [video-codec] netvc - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 23:05:40 -0000 Dear Adam Roach, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netvc Session 1 (2:30:00) Thursday, Morning Session I 1000-1230 Room Name: Atlantico B size: 125 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Internet Video Codec Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Adam Roach Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 92 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: codec rtcweb dispatch sipcore mmusic perc cellar Second Priority: avtcore payload avtext raiarea xrblock clue Special Requests: Please make one of the new 1080p projectors available for this session. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Mar 13 11:24:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9F112D750 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Huys950usocz for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1852612D737 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Svantevit.roach.at (cpe-70-122-154-80.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.154.80]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2DIOMTX093904 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 13:24:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-154-80.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.154.80] claimed to be Svantevit.roach.at To: video-codec@ietf.org From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <56E5B051.4050808@nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 13:24:17 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Planning for Buenos Aires X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:24:25 -0000 [as chair] If you beleive you will have a topic to discuss at the upcoming Buenos Aires meeting, please contact me and Mo to let us know how much time you believe you will need. Thanks. /a From nobody Tue Mar 15 15:13:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietf.org Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DCC612DDFF; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:13:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.16.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160315221307.14829.79589.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:13:07 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Subject: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 22:13:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Video Codec of the IETF. Title : Video Codec Testing and Quality Measurement Authors : Thomas Daede Andrey Norkin Filename : draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2016-03-15 Abstract: This document describes guidelines and procedures for evaluating a video codec specified at the IETF. This covers subjective and objective tests, test conditions, and materials used for the test. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-testing/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Mar 15 15:24:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17F7312D6C4 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mozilla-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJtkxPqZNzgJ for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22e.google.com (mail-pf0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62CBC12D62B for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 124so46414617pfg.0 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MZhM3ao5ftMn0iwtHTIXLlCxzD1Fh8iQDj7H3lmFNuI=; b=A/MzGYjJPijKqMsofjoLpJUbaGploBe9EC5/mCXV/11bKiUC4yL81O2josD0BPFohz P+wB8n9rjM7bRvXTrsiLToiayXllQgupGK0gh9pEfz4dAjxdJ9AgjQT2sPa/C+shTQMh l1gA5S0YNG+9c+1akJ/P8ZB6fliw4gJwAX5S9l0nYBLtbZe3xQhrK4zKwREuuabBAyVa iYPRKuLwlZ+tDiL/u7/xhd/2HhMqYIhZXET217r+apgf5JBebKuq07sHonxtza9sx9cu 3KYAc0w0ctE5+QqluFwm/lvDL/tn7Iee1OhCNjFI+uGvElnR7ARu5ArjSqiIsKmk57Uy Liww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MZhM3ao5ftMn0iwtHTIXLlCxzD1Fh8iQDj7H3lmFNuI=; b=cJNB3hRpgdULjeumLn9LFlt53Rug2P0Tbx5rHhlgyigCypBhnyBG5G/TfwL2zODRYS 3pLbweAWorho+V5yVqfKnCl8nYymTHKNw4HNBI3ohWZUbWdzAnhWhJ0kcYBXEe4Ha194 A5ONeYsv8j1RnbV8L/NmSg9NV35leLAQ8nha36cwIiWtrWGONxwof7dDkGrPWjsQbgov tlUb46rTSKABbjqlKxTiIdGRUPHrspYLW9p3w9m2oly5u43FuWCntMvY5xMV2h7CLz+4 EdwrMgcK2obq6VP7eYKkrsxDPPt2u5448e74jZMcMao0xUBCJwobByujY85sz+CEguWc YTxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLQTxagjvlsltCdmiQ/96E+K97WZnQxvGECOtpOYrda6JdY8Z4c3udnFWaYUM3c/G/J X-Received: by 10.98.13.216 with SMTP id 85mr630177pfn.143.1458080642000; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126? ([2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe9e:8126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id yx4sm219846pac.5.2016.03.15.15.24.00 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:24:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <20160315221307.14829.15523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Thomas Daede X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20160315221307.14829.15523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <56E88B7F.6070407@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:23:59 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160315221307.14829.15523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 22:24:04 -0000 Based on feedback from the list, this draft features an update to the BD-rate method. It uses quantizer-based bounds, and includes a much more detailed description that should be sufficiently descriptive to be implemented. The public instance of AWCY has not been updated yet to use this method, it should be available soon. Exact sets of videos are now specified, though I may need to update them again due to computational constraints. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:13:07 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Thomas Daede , Andrey Norkin A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Thomas Daede and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-netvc-testing Revision: 02 Title: Video Codec Testing and Quality Measurement Document date: 2016-03-15 Group: netvc Pages: 12 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-testing/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netvc-testing-02 Abstract: This document describes guidelines and procedures for evaluating a video codec specified at the IETF. This covers subjective and objective tests, test conditions, and materials used for the test. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Mon Mar 21 15:11:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC2112D0F8 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:11:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ut5IrHOJttgo for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F8E12D0C6 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Orochi.local (99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2LMBJ2l068626 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 17:11:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-145-110.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.145.110] claimed to be Orochi.local To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Adam Roach Message-ID: <56F07186.9080308@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 17:11:18 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Preliminary Agenda Posted X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:11:22 -0000 [as chair] We have uploaded a preliminary agenda for the upcoming NETVC meeting in Buenos Aires: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/95/agenda/agenda-95-netvc Any comments on the proposed agenda should be made to the chairs before the end of this week. Thanks! /a From nobody Mon Mar 21 16:56:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D7C712D1E3 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cFDxjEdOyiWY for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x233.google.com (mail-qg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3D5012D527 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id w104so165920086qge.1 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jmvalin-ca.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oYQ5Jp1s1Tl+j4Tz/Yu/12KfWgZ52q0eS3VBWnr2JJY=; b=vch+aWeSR0jIsCCtg7qg6fLZZuM/203HzfRo10eQejNVbB5qDiZgmzDe1TwSbtsgS0 3u0jEc3PiM5jZRto1lafUvT3t5pjCuLT5WI9ipD0qPQEKMuE92l2/Wobjk/6SejB/l43 8xolglN3cB8AT6qzUHQNPCsNGhoWGIs1iCT3/vPhG5FCRqly+pqPsi6yXIjP07AeCjqm LygEAxFa5MIrlIBhflUa9jw0Yu+gSJve6o8+qwwH0Y9Ue43SYZDxDYlnZNZ4fEoz5f6i 3+Nz3mUu1iTc8iEREBRqaKpWitc/Z/wdrI2L58/6rgs7JRg2n3oUhJM1VlFEWB6F5wJG GfAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oYQ5Jp1s1Tl+j4Tz/Yu/12KfWgZ52q0eS3VBWnr2JJY=; b=Uj5R281Aq23+qZkTR0F43OqSiQCj68LdjyqwJ13RrHE6PbjGK1ALjo6ptmwMoCkkLd HxXi0x44nCb+r04Zpy5GwSjQBtzP19kGpHQdaNvfWvdmy74YcGxRXFDoZG+SrHHB1GKQ A7AAhYBZtBFQdR80BIUR8+/SoUUkRNsOoAq1tWIc9O5lZLOdfFxjSjJkdOZ1c4CSiJaO wUxjF3pVkOTWwQKqwdC+OeSvqr5x9ZJJDlGHlJHto2F+RsN+NtI7VHyxyvDRhhd9pgwp I+jVfuF1oNeGCT8nTfJXjzQlAqEIFYRsM2VWvE4ae2YeVJC1cf02vCvQY/fKthvKG4SH evtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJK1eW5zH47X1BYd3zzyAVCmURoHxdyncMjlqt74RQ07L2stIYRreyuXy8kvEUgN0g== X-Received: by 10.140.88.11 with SMTP id s11mr42804987qgd.93.1458604570872; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable017.46-176-173.mc.videotron.ca. [173.176.46.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x79sm13386270qka.37.2016.03.21.16.56.10 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:56:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <20160321233726.10914.2713.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "video-codec@ietf.org" From: Jean-Marc Valin X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20160321233726.10914.2713.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <56F08A19.7070907@jmvalin.ca> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:56:09 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160321233726.10914.2713.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 23:56:14 -0000 Here's a new version of the deringing filter draft, including an update for the integration in the AOM video codec. Cheers, Jean-Marc -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01.txt Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:37:26 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Jean-Marc Valin A new version of I-D, draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Jean-Marc Valin and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-valin-netvc-deringing Revision: 01 Title: Directional Deringing Filter Document date: 2016-03-21 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 8 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-valin-netvc-deringing/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-valin-netvc-deringing-01 Abstract: This document describes a deringing filter that takes into account the direction of edges and patterns being filtered. The filter works by identifying the direction of each block and then adaptively filtering along the identified direction. In a second pass, the blocks are also filtered in a different direction, with more conservative thresholds to avoid blurring edges. The proposed deringing filter is shown to improve the quality of both Daala and the Alliance for Open Media (AOM) video codec. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat