From nobody Wed Oct 3 09:42:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68812131307 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:42:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SfWxwOWl8vmt for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35E87131292 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id o14-v6so5769016ljj.2 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9+I0k2o0stL22z+3loMYR58Re+KmVjp2gty+dpdgygQ=; b=qq4jzdfzNq41F8/PuUfpevLWA9HVbjiZlQXvXEaULj9DJ592j7i/xoo3zsLr29qYj6 6VLUkKFHWBCmcvadJMS3rXGrx8q3CHEFPvwx/XgQBFjOznDcqva8R7KeZxKYFOQwrOo9 X6mBNJ3RROJ7ATqxK49sDkG2nD6zGfOhOe0kwmc8US10APW2g4vj6irivuG0rgCJ2GOb 390m8FSmSx7FkS2DfgkJ4UYRl1quRusIKQNcV4S0LU1Lteql8v4rhtF4WagxQGQ8sj8U uyNZAWTazJgQC3sT9I4otIM++dFndvXmoRqhgS50jbks7uy4eY/TyTBZ42M0wOmpzGg+ V4HA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9+I0k2o0stL22z+3loMYR58Re+KmVjp2gty+dpdgygQ=; b=owv72zikDr7OnKpoFyrdXipaFNV/XdS2FoG5lv1qUZuQktxx19AxF32m571U+W3Lx/ gi/qYfAn4PqQza/YPy4AvhFzGHVS5cVqNxTsm7oCWEfkDq66y8T8iPfUyJ0jpB8Yi1dH qVkG0fhVfR8IXeLQNLY9LmyLLgkww7IS2rBhgzmDcmT8PoGcfDNn7rtG5FgNVdgMMzNU 2XWPml5OvOw7Za3OEobEPcwbQLETHyFgDoV19uwIWHjCj7n6Qj/xfzj+SBy2nGVSc/EG q5aAffCMaUxd/GURcZH3xON7i5VZ8aCMD+O2HM3Z9Dif2ldgw6wgBiV8rC0367DGgtU+ yPuw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoipD+rc2Qakt7JfBVo7JNmJx4IFg/rBKVI7dSsiZaKUmkPCqv7l k05DEURIPtghoY8CpQmAFR545um8bLARcY4/eAw++Fpk X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61C2K4FGQ9E3hai+LhXeKnDd9rr9M0M4mub5OZDGIsNwNy4Jjuw3BaQnx2xwPoP2g6GMzSc12v9SxhlDc+rj7M= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:914e:: with SMTP id q14-v6mr1703735ljg.23.1538584932647; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Raphael Canut Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 18:42:01 +0200 Message-ID: To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005e0c91057755b8c4" Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:42:17 -0000 --0000000000005e0c91057755b8c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I have improved the NHW Project image compression codec. This new version is better and I have added very high compression, which is very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now interesting for the IETF video codec working group... For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I find it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimized HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitate to let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Industry for my codec. Many thanks for your time! Cheers, Raphael Canut --0000000000005e0c91057755b8c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Mayb= e it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I have impr= oved the NHW Project image compression codec.

This= new version is better and I have added very high compression, which is ver= y competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now interesting = for the IETF video codec working group...

For remi= nder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I find it visu= ally more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x faster to en= code and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimized HEVC)! So it is= meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec.

You can find more at: http://nhw= codec.blogspot.com/

Sorry again if you find th= at I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitate to let me know), but= it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Industry for my codec.
=

Many thanks for your time!
Cheers,
= Raphael Canut
--0000000000005e0c91057755b8c4-- From nobody Wed Oct 3 15:10:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D10C130DBE for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:10:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52W_B_QndRdA for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73600129385 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 15:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id t22-v6so5304067lfb.7 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:10:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V6PX7tSfggsqATKjdYLA9HrJAjQf1VpfVe1PwSgjgUw=; b=Ndl2KdZg/mZENa/++4ooqkD85NoC38jkuq5TeD6FqrLBqt4P23KYnT1f+5C8M8WA/m +RJ0/9KtHywDfx4cC4VVw6bMoD4bV7/MdNeL3zV/HZtixQjTE7AiUIQFMs8ymeLEOW7C NxCKR8PLFaC6wyTQG9Jo5xpd8YkqenXn4b+o46iUjTran0qcp54kpChNWKgxc3E8/I4w ydmEwPvDOQXWR2OVXCw68ukQxrwIKKrWM+ykaDA8yJvH9NXkAfFGm7xO/JwlmWFf75bB EV+NXZVSgBuyj5rvPiAfy98OEjvcpPvFWQEv2WCEMh+2tsk+E52n5+AK5a66EaECpTP9 RCGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=V6PX7tSfggsqATKjdYLA9HrJAjQf1VpfVe1PwSgjgUw=; b=tVPdIAgRua83i6miOuGEBMcF3NrlYvvTEc1oZeklYMJctwi98sh/NGcT6paSRN6ypk ir7mFp+aNGCEIarLF3wC/k8Dy4u/fdflaRd7FQ6SvhW/02Paz3XcPv+5u8x09e4sMOfj GltThztUuBGBcT75QZYPTZkm4NBsyknU8GzP92Kh4UMd6KZTg2HaPmP84WZG5Vzz+KZB L4wH9y23aZbeB8KqJ8hu+U1iqA9kXqRGjqUKcwLS+YeoxGMu6WDMmbWJZ5T0ZzjEA7bR ns4zSLRefcrkhTBV7FdesWX4Rr694iO9jrjYHE9tF6FAnaIzbCZIjijv3cP1lNMYdkCF BOsg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogsL8ucf2AXcSUcYZ9A3zGJ/pgrMc0M8cW+VWAWHpXkgghOHYep AULmiGBdF1YTfOhXbmaTBxBnHqRBGjZ5NoVLo3WSTQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60xbR/c254xUqm/oBbyZMfI0/3RlBzz9WvIi5uVjs+HAubWrAFX0atMx7W7JDeSzpcnvW+Jh6nnVGIJ/yyC9vc= X-Received: by 2002:a19:8f57:: with SMTP id r84-v6mr2005083lfd.131.1538604633736; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:10:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Raphael Canut Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 00:10:22 +0200 Message-ID: To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a4cb9405775a4ef6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 22:10:40 -0000 --000000000000a4cb9405775a4ef6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Just a quick message in the case if the IETF would be studying the NHW Project, for fair comparison, notably at very high compression, the entropy coding schemes of the NHW Project are not optimal for now, and we can save in average 2.4KB per .nhw compressed file. Also, yes the NHW Project is only for 512x512 image size for now, I am currently spending my (limited) time on improving the codec and coding very high compression.But if you are interested in the NHW Project, it would be so great if you can propose me a contract, to adapt it to any image size for example, and other things! Thank you very much! Cheers, Raphael Canut Le mer. 3 oct. 2018 =C3=A0 18:42, Raphael Canut a =C3= =A9crit : > Hello, > > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I hav= e > improved the NHW Project image compression codec. > > This new version is better and I have added very high compression, which > is very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now > interesting for the IETF video codec working group... > > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I > find it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50= x > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimized > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. > > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ > > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitate to > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Industry > for my codec. > > Many thanks for your time! > Cheers, > Raphael Canut > --000000000000a4cb9405775a4ef6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Just a quick message = in the case if the IETF would be studying the NHW Project, for fair compari= son, notably at very high compression, the entropy coding schemes of the NH= W Project are not optimal for now, and we can save in average 2.4KB per .nh= w compressed file.

Also, yes the NHW Project is on= ly for 512x512 image size for now, I am currently spending my (limited) tim= e on improving the codec and coding very high compression.But if you are in= terested in the NHW Project, it would be so great if you can propose me a c= ontract, to adapt it to any image size for example, and other things!
=

Thank you very much!
Cheers,
Raphae= l Canut

Le= =C2=A0mer. 3 oct. 2018 =C3=A0=C2=A018:42, Raphael Canut <nhwcodec@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
H= ello,

Maybe it could be interesting for profession= al people of this list, I have improved the NHW Project image compression c= odec.

This new version is better and I have added = very high compression, which is very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe thi= s version could be now interesting for the IETF video codec working group..= .

For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness = than x265 (HEVC) and I find it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, = and it is at least 50x faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode t= han x265 (optimized HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video = codec.

You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/


--000000000000a4cb9405775a4ef6-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 05:37:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E1A130E47 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 05:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kUFJ2EHVSa9Z for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 05:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (relay5-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 530DD130E59 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 05:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: 213.47.41.20 Received: from localhost (213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [213.47.41.20]) (Authenticated sender: michael@niedermayer.cc) by relay5-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B74CD1C0004; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:37:25 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:37:24 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer To: Raphael Canut Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181004123724.GK26818@michaelspb> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:37:31 -0000 --1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Raphael On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I have > improved the NHW Project image compression codec. >=20 > This new version is better and I have added very high compression, which = is > very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now > interesting for the IETF video codec working group... >=20 > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I fi= nd > it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimized > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. >=20 > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ >=20 > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitate to > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Industry > for my codec. I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IETF but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As the author of the original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar would be very interr= ested in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And while FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real constraints of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a completely different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the right way forward. I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future revissions of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition between=20 different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity,=20 high compression, speed and losslessness. Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely related, its basically almost the same problem. Thanks [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say it by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes --1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlu2CYQACgkQYR7HhwQLD6tdygCeKM2Q0XSPyezUqtwCXlWPwaP5 xtkAnRflz8ELMT3nbpthGDY5/f1Lxxfy =ujKu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 06:59:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465BD130E0C for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 06:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AU19riPGg7io for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 06:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2DFF12DD85 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 06:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id q2-v6so6837327lfc.13 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 06:59:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YclrL7nFYH0G/SqlqpSpRA+0ykB45JNiBIg4GL1WC2w=; b=oQlkWREUsB1nfA40Y1FHmYlPTAk1KGv1MeyFG0Iq6NjD60Fb1MfJwbbOHH+/S7R6Ja D2QUHWLhBCtirzelt1+KDoo+/lBbNxIRRDYN6ilgyKJpTNXkmXyQiZExAYnnkpycDd4M RYQbsPG+cPrkLFR4ic6SStc0c1ReDNnGo5dT+yb8g4OObuh0C8vUWoZE0wVCW97D5pDF oRbBwWzK8DaER2W+Z2tM3D4iKQmC6SrEYvp5gviNMcdr4GwlAxdboJL1bYSlTodEXyvV O7GVRUnqd67ZuCk7OlDDzhE9IYnO2EOCFd2J0bIrlkiPdv1rQtxuxMx5Lk1huSYhIjo6 dK8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=YclrL7nFYH0G/SqlqpSpRA+0ykB45JNiBIg4GL1WC2w=; b=hx+KyYS9hNSS8kpVJdEtfruTlDc+4cLGSZlFlUUnV+vuv+75ntDLrC3gg41/8nebcf NXGMFApXMiuy6cq/GxOv5jz2EL65nTCh56FjwCZg+iCedG6RaR7HF5C/Jm54qeo4A7cf aN3/zyWh0YyPL/fzbBaW6OZf1R+UQuYHkiHxZ8VPy4CnGmKntJhC7ydkX9Bfc1S33C20 TgRLClYg389w/DPYk4k8CItjJ8U1Ec24DJ31EayhBPDewfVeft0xKwhmduoeUlz7MC4Y aEhZhBwejxr+AeGnKvW2GXkzkfQjtMfksGFpbRdDo4tEwkIC2szTmXtBR92yYVAaYj0N 0i/w== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohXip/9T9io9qJ7i0rm9aDalkSazOKxJBJ34fx3r7yz46/oTn9Y EIqCvZ5hm1P/hqDwQ9O76ytbEBHSAQA4Gow/PAv0zA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV621Eo9Iw/yBJS3JumFPdaI1B5iPCwr5O58eseFe3gRJvWV+m68c1gR73oZ6MzpCm2I+uXQjJjtUqLH65enXY/k= X-Received: by 2002:a19:59d3:: with SMTP id n202-v6mr3944160lfb.125.1538661560811; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 06:59:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181004123724.GK26818@michaelspb> In-Reply-To: <20181004123724.GK26818@michaelspb> From: Raphael Canut Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:59:08 +0200 Message-ID: To: michael@niedermayer.cc, video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c3052c0577678fe6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:59:25 -0000 --000000000000c3052c0577678fe6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, Many thanks for your answer Sir! It interests me a lot that the NHW Project algorithm would be studied for the great FFV1 codec! Just first I wanted to point out that the NHW Project is very experimental for now.For example there is no lossless mode and it is now only for 512x512 image size... Do you plan to add to FFV1 a lossy intra-coded picture mode? Maybe first and before going deeper, you can try the NHW Project and see if in its current state it can be interesting for FFV1? Many thanks again! Cheers, Raphael Le jeu. 4 oct. 2018 =C3=A0 14:37, Michael Niedermayer a =C3=A9crit : > Hi Raphael > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I > have > > improved the NHW Project image compression codec. > > > > This new version is better and I have added very high compression, whic= h > is > > very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now > > interesting for the IETF video codec working group... > > > > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I > find > > it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x > > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimized > > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. > > > > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ > > > > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitate = to > > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Industr= y > > for my codec. > > I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IETF > but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in > working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As the author of the > original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar would be very > interrested > in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And while > FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real constraints > of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a completely > different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the right > way forward. > I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future > revissions > of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition between > different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity, > high compression, speed and losslessness. > Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely related, > its basically almost the same problem. > > Thanks > > [...] > > -- > Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB > > No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say i= t > by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes > --000000000000c3052c0577678fe6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Michael,

Many thanks f= or your answer Sir!

It interests me a lot that the= NHW Project algorithm would be studied for the great FFV1 codec!

Just first I wanted to point out that the NHW Project is ve= ry experimental for now.For example there is no lossless mode and it is now= only for 512x512 image size...

Do you plan t= o add to FFV1 a lossy intra-coded picture mode?

Maybe first and before going deeper, you can try the NHW Project and see = if in its current state it can be interesting for FFV1?

Le=C2=A0jeu. 4 oct. 2018 =C3=A0=C2=A014:37, Michael Niedermayer <mic= hael@niedermayer.cc> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi Raphael

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I = have
> improved the NHW Project image compression codec.
>
> This new version is better and I have added very high compression, whi= ch is
> very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now
> interesting for the IETF video codec working group...
>
> For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I= find
> it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x<= br> > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimize= d
> HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec.
>
> You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/
>
> Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do no= t hesitate to
> let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Indust= ry
> for my codec.

I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IETF
but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in
working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As the author = of the
original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar would be v= ery interrested
in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And while
FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real constraints of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a completely
different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the right
way forward.
I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future revission= s
of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition between
different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity,
high compression, speed and losslessness.
Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely related,
its basically almost the same problem.

Thanks

[...]

--
Michael=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC= 787040B0FAB

No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say it<= br> by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes
--000000000000c3052c0577678fe6-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 16:24:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA080130E79 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:24:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9RDDb2vN5-DD for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E71D129385 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: 213.47.41.20 Received: from localhost (213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [213.47.41.20]) (Authenticated sender: michael@niedermayer.cc) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D13E60006; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:24:40 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:24:40 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer To: Raphael Canut Cc: video-codec@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181004232440.GL26818@michaelspb> References: <20181004123724.GK26818@michaelspb> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kunpHVz1op/+13PW" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:24:48 -0000 --kunpHVz1op/+13PW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Raphael Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 03:59:08PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > Hello Michael, >=20 > Many thanks for your answer Sir! >=20 > It interests me a lot that the NHW Project algorithm would be studied for > the great FFV1 codec! I think it would only be studied if someone (like for example you) would do that study, that is compare it to current ffv1 and suggest it as an=20 algorithm for a future version. Of course you would only do that if/when you see that as making sense. For example when it is better than the current code, supports lossless and arbitrary image sizes ... What i wanted to say with my reply is more that suggestions to extend ffv1 in ways that improve it would be welcome.=20 >=20 > Just first I wanted to point out that the NHW Project is very experimental > for now.For example there is no lossless mode and it is now only for > 512x512 image size... >=20 > Do you plan to add to FFV1 a lossy intra-coded picture mode? That would only make sense if that is either a very simple & natural extens= ion to existing code or if it adds significant value over other existing codecs. >=20 > Maybe first and before going deeper, you can try the NHW Project and see = if > in its current state it can be interesting for FFV1? >=20 > Many thanks again! > Cheers, > Raphael >=20 >=20 >=20 > Le jeu. 4 oct. 2018 =E0 14:37, Michael Niedermayer a > =E9crit : >=20 > > Hi Raphael > > > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list, I > > have > > > improved the NHW Project image compression codec. > > > > > > This new version is better and I have added very high compression, wh= ich > > is > > > very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now > > > interesting for the IETF video codec working group... > > > > > > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) and I > > find > > > it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 50x > > > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 (optimiz= ed > > > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. > > > > > > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not hesitat= e to > > > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the Indus= try > > > for my codec. > > > > I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IETF > > but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in > > working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As the author of the > > original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar would be very > > interrested > > in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And while > > FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real constraints > > of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a completely > > different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the right > > way forward. > > I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future > > revissions > > of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition between > > different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity, > > high compression, speed and losslessness. > > Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely related, > > its basically almost the same problem. > > > > Thanks > > > > [...] > > > > -- > > Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB > > > > No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say= it > > by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes > > > _______________________________________________ > video-codec mailing list > video-codec@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say it by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes --kunpHVz1op/+13PW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlu2oTgACgkQYR7HhwQLD6sZdACghluY9uFmZS3PSKAvDPF7+kEg D4sAmQE20wtdjGrdTo2ccYCFSJMGCpf2 =0p6t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kunpHVz1op/+13PW-- From nobody Thu Oct 4 16:59:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCAC129385 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:59:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8NgcLXg-xMf4 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90344130E85 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id o14-v6so10016905ljj.2 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:59:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dkQUjQB83nqKdrSxOkgX2NU+hp2nthM0XQjCng+kOS4=; b=tNf78UsUnmbGRQP7rF5cnxVfgEbF2t+v4X+QFlrr4LjFrgXDAFfSwX4tvvoj3+FQPL rGJ3iKgrE2+SK3wQTzZPHvE6Y0Tj4wxeVDX6i9BApJIQRzI8xbtKpA7mjQpkZg9DMKtz rvfhxIjQm5mWfJy2sqkWVUUVzCBfYlBmX82Di9M3GEHMfaql9y8LIC8w0evUGknGMOHa aw9MzQA0eExyFsFtkTQRNLVW8LuCUylyIAOLqL/2YsOTvG+Uo1MsEAN738jyb02e5UQa hcmSCKTVe32k0/HU8ot9cBC8DWREinA+ftE07RFzYzTas8HwM4mAwoujo+evw2oupR6c 3RqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dkQUjQB83nqKdrSxOkgX2NU+hp2nthM0XQjCng+kOS4=; b=NzCHdtSc+rNTMO0mDXsBEV5dUv0nLmqewaHBOhtpwh8FmH+udLCV3IAKkeEcS3js+A iXDwiKsGRuLGqlNo5lWyc6lJycAR94uPE3pF4MPkuX5khZXFZ50sJ4jB63PypreDovMH nwD4spErajjqOgKFiLbPDcuysk2ZKGpAuGghRAhgUP0KlGsOqDy5GoZiooXpIhLNad3D AVHyKHr/yjfrW/uoSs7KH++a5omBeW8obAjOt3/4T+3HrvIFzwsJwsOREstTiK3hhK5k 7m3Ki60IYu4U1yVvDRjXFW1ZXPPgM/y3lA4jK1OGB9AoMXMeJ31j8xv91xSG+FRrXNW2 buWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoh+63SxWJzpxXj/CAeLff32JBYuid0A6qpdmzkjWAiN6xdNctI+ +QlNv/OXM53NTQ5mWZ8QRfYDlVcOCLrOnrhMxQ3J3rGz X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60s27OkgPOght/dLBp+TP+I7qhU9Xh8wNVcqLYArWmFey1NsSkTN1/N8aOqm1aON3nqrrqMjidsXcCqs6rNcks= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8884:: with SMTP id k4-v6mr335509lji.145.1538697569617; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:59:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181004123724.GK26818@michaelspb> <20181004232440.GL26818@michaelspb> In-Reply-To: <20181004232440.GL26818@michaelspb> From: Raphael Canut Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:59:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: Michael Niedermayer , video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000dcaa605776ff20b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] NHW Project - new version - very high compression - Interesting for IETF? X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:59:36 -0000 --0000000000000dcaa605776ff20b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, Actually my codec is very lossy-oriented, and generally what works in lossy, doesn't really work in lossless... Lossy and lossless are two different things... For now at first glance, I don't see really good ideas from lossy NHW Project to improve lossless FFV1... but I will study it deeper.Even my entropy coding schemes are for lossy scheme... What I can advice, but you certainly already know it, I have read recently (on the encode.ru forum) that some developers have implemented good new image models (context and predictors) to the paq8px compressor which gave them even better compression, but I think it is complex.The paq8px compressor has then very good results on lossless image compression but is slow... Maybe if you are interested in these new image models, you can contact them. If I go through new good ideas while developing the NHW Project that could be useful to FFV1, I will let you know. Many thanks again! Kind regards, Raphael Canut Le ven. 5 oct. 2018 =C3=A0 01:24, Michael Niedermayer a =C3=A9crit : > Hi Raphael > > Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 03:59:08PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > > Hello Michael, > > > > Many thanks for your answer Sir! > > > > > It interests me a lot that the NHW Project algorithm would be studied f= or > > the great FFV1 codec! > > I think it would only be studied if someone (like for example you) would > do that study, that is compare it to current ffv1 and suggest it as an > algorithm for a future version. Of course you would only do that if/when > you see that as making sense. For example when it is better than the > current code, supports lossless and arbitrary image sizes ... > > What i wanted to say with my reply is more that suggestions to extend > ffv1 in ways that improve it would be welcome. > > > > > > Just first I wanted to point out that the NHW Project is very > experimental > > for now.For example there is no lossless mode and it is now only for > > 512x512 image size... > > > > > Do you plan to add to FFV1 a lossy intra-coded picture mode? > > That would only make sense if that is either a very simple & natural > extension > to existing code or if it adds significant value over other existing > codecs. > > > > > > Maybe first and before going deeper, you can try the NHW Project and se= e > if > > in its current state it can be interesting for FFV1? > > > > Many thanks again! > > Cheers, > > Raphael > > > > > > > > Le jeu. 4 oct. 2018 =C3=A0 14:37, Michael Niedermayer > a > > =C3=A9crit : > > > > > Hi Raphael > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of this list,= I > > > have > > > > improved the NHW Project image compression codec. > > > > > > > > This new version is better and I have added very high compression, > which > > > is > > > > very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could be now > > > > interesting for the IETF video codec working group... > > > > > > > > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (HEVC) an= d > I > > > find > > > > it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at least 5= 0x > > > > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265 > (optimized > > > > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec. > > > > > > > > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the list (do not > hesitate to > > > > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach the > Industry > > > > for my codec. > > > > > > I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IETF > > > but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in > > > working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As the author of the > > > original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar would be very > > > interrested > > > in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And while > > > FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real > constraints > > > of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a complete= ly > > > different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the right > > > way forward. > > > I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future > > > revissions > > > of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition between > > > different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity, > > > high compression, speed and losslessness. > > > Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely related= , > > > its basically almost the same problem. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > -- > > > Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0F= AB > > > > > > No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to > say it > > > by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > video-codec mailing list > > video-codec@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-codec > > > -- > Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB > > No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say i= t > by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes > --0000000000000dcaa605776ff20b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Michael,

Actually my codec is very lossy-oriented, and generally what works in lossy,=20 doesn't really work in lossless... Lossy and lossless are two different= =20 things...

For now at first glance, I don't see= =20 really good ideas from lossy NHW Project to improve lossless FFV1... but I will study it deeper.Even my entropy coding schemes are for lossy=20 scheme...

What I can advice, but you certainly alr= eady know it, I have read recently (on the encode.ru forum) that some developers have implemented good new image models=20 (context and predictors) to the paq8px compressor which gave them even=20 better compression, but I think it is complex.The paq8px compressor has=20 then very good results on lossless image compression but is slow...=20 Maybe if you are interested in these new image models, you can contact=20 them.

If I go through new good ideas while develop= ing the NHW Project that could be useful to FFV1, I will let you know.

Many thanks again!
Kind regards,
R= aphael Canut

Le=C2=A0ven. 5 oct. 2= 018 =C3=A0=C2=A001:24, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> a= =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Hi Raphael

Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 03:59:08PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> Many thanks for your answer Sir!
>

> It interests me a lot that the NHW Project algorithm would be studied = for
> the great FFV1 codec!

I think it would only be studied if someone (like for example you) would do that study, that is compare it to current ffv1 and suggest it as an
algorithm for a future version. Of course you would only do that if/when you see that as making sense. For example when it is better than the
current code, supports lossless and arbitrary image sizes ...

What i wanted to say with my reply is more that suggestions to extend
ffv1 in ways that improve it would be welcome.


>
> Just first I wanted to point out that the NHW Project is very experime= ntal
> for now.For example there is no lossless mode and it is now only for > 512x512 image size...
>

> Do you plan to add to FFV1 a lossy intra-coded picture mode?

That would only make sense if that is either a very simple & natural ex= tension
to existing code or if it adds significant value over other existing codecs= .


>
> Maybe first and before going deeper, you can try the NHW Project and s= ee if
> in its current state it can be interesting for FFV1?
>
> Many thanks again!
> Cheers,
> Raphael
>
>
>
> Le jeu. 4 oct. 2018 =C3=A0 14:37, Michael Niedermayer <michael@nied= ermayer.cc> a
> =C3=A9crit :
>
> > Hi Raphael
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 06:42:01PM +0200, Raphael Canut wrote: > > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Maybe it could be interesting for professional people of thi= s list, I
> > have
> > > improved the NHW Project image compression codec.
> > >
> > > This new version is better and I have added very high compre= ssion, which
> > is
> > > very competitive with x265 (HEVC).Maybe this version could b= e now
> > > interesting for the IETF video codec working group...
> > >
> > > For reminder, the NHW Project has more neatness than x265 (H= EVC) and I
> > find
> > > it visually more pleasant, it is royalty-free, and it is at = least 50x
> > > faster to encode and at least 15x faster to decode than x265= (optimized
> > > HEVC)! So it is meeting the criteria of the IETF video codec= .
> > >
> > > You can find more at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/<= br> > > >
> > > Sorry again if you find that I am "spamming" the l= ist (do not hesitate to
> > > let me know), but it is extremely difficult for me to reach = the Industry
> > > for my codec.
> >
> > I cant speak about NHW (as i have not looked at it yet) or for IE= TF
> > but somewhat on topic and related, if you are interrested in
> > working on a IETF "standarized" video codec". As t= he author of the
> > original FFV1 spec. I and i belive "we" at IETF cellar = would be very
> > interrested
> > in seeing work done to improve future iterations of FFV1. And whi= le
> > FFV1 is not a wavelet codec really i think there are no real cons= traints
> > of what a future v5, v6 or whatever might do, it could use a comp= letely
> > different algorithm if the people on IETF-cellar feel thats the r= ight
> > way forward.
> > I had always imagined long before cellar-IETF existed that future=
> > revissions
> > of FFV1 would be designed based on some sort of competition betwe= en
> > different algorithms being tested with the aim being simplicity,<= br> > > high compression, speed and losslessness.
> > Also image coding and intra only coded video are very closely rel= ated,
> > its basically almost the same problem.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > --
> > Michael=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BA= DF133611EC787040B0FAB
> >
> > No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen = to say it
> > by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenopha= nes
> >

> _______________________________________________
> video-codec mailing list
> video-codec@= ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/video-co= dec


--
Michael=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC= 787040B0FAB

No human being will ever know the Truth, for even if they happen to say it<= br> by chance, they would not even known they had done so. -- Xenophanes
--0000000000000dcaa605776ff20b-- From nobody Thu Oct 11 13:39:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3359E1277CC for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:39:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GHDGi818pz8 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F297127333 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id u21-v6so9444475lja.8 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:38:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=aDRIME6qMo1iN01/K6y7G7JfVkQulud9CrpjYfaF0Sk=; b=N3vcs3nvfoPj5/4W73iEzfYmd+AvgHUBQcfIeAcTZJFwnQnglpwUD3ayCthCBeOlTa IE7sRjzIOYK0k2GiYEbvEs2TBCV7tvIPJ4W31JgZCrcFVeRnLyY4XsClblTNXzJdvQth YRjRXtqimKSKxkk3Bgq4gcZkJ56qeOsVgIuQMwt9mY7cDR2fM9yHRgzjte0h5QpusDgv /5YJllM+mZrXXkJ1/lWJLYBc3Y4YNz6YjEO/LA9T9p1J2U2mlXUe/lauMmFFwwZlIqUH f2/MQV6AWDMaRmmfgj9vGskNglphBzNyj1G26OrqGxUyUlapQzBYRCzTxuClBTSXihJ4 TLfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=aDRIME6qMo1iN01/K6y7G7JfVkQulud9CrpjYfaF0Sk=; b=VuoOtgHkLTLjkknt9iVYnKq34+GopmSdS9BpsE2/E79ljSqqEwDWOe9a7WLYmsEWXX TU692SBpEAHNaHzMRsKGTdFa3FhJAxYjtc0FAnDPXBzP+hCRyqN0YZWqMJApq/6o1PTR WES+ZeNACCSlRTXVIAfd+T96FvCw6ntp0M2XG0P9sA3E9Z2ogi92fFcSWxo+JyLLBAEi LLnUS7/yJCIhGCGDt/AJhyLU0IIvgsngCx/av4kEkFEW8eeLC8WFFJY5UXhpiMcTuEGS KPvXbDXB3u1YsFph+YOIuKy2PcxU9x+1Cyvcqsoxu5CoUh+J53HoU8axyaXRu3zoqj9t JaEA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoghQEAG68RBL/0C1c962nMNeuvXD+l6NRPsXwby6QfGuSM1R1/T JuOcT36nqUFgpqAYkwv2HwXG6uWRDyeU+QF7XtaMVeka X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61T55Sy8gDoJxS7mReTq7R4sor6pkbW4diAnfb6AAnb7UkRGinVli2a4CevF5pedXhvkeueYRHaBli3KIYp/D0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8884:: with SMTP id k4-v6mr2165050lji.145.1539290335812; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 13:38:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Raphael Canut Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 22:38:43 +0200 Message-ID: To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ac2c070577f9f587" Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] NHW Neatness Metrics X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 20:39:00 -0000 --000000000000ac2c070577f9f587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, For those interested, I have developped a (simple) NHW Neatness Metrics to measure neatness between 2 images: the studied one and the reference one. The results are the significance of the neatness on the whole image and the average neatness amount. This work is experimental and could be incomplete for this first version (notably on "blurred" edges, contours)! But the metric shows that the NHW Project has more neatness than the other codecs, notably at high compression where there is more neatness. More at: http://nhwcodec.blogspot.com/ As I am claiming that visually (subjectively) the NHW Project has more neatness, this metric could add objective measurement.-But for now it could still not replace visual evaluation of image.- Many thanks! Cheers, Raphael Canut --000000000000ac2c070577f9f587 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

For those interested, I have developped a (simple) NHW Neatness Metrics=20 to measure neatness between 2 images: the studied one and the reference=20 one.

The results are the significance of the neatness on the whole image and the= average neatness amount.

This work is experimental and could be incomplete for this first=20 version (notably on "blurred" edges, contours)! But the metric sh= ows that the NHW Project has more neatness than the=20 other codecs, notably at high compression where there is more neatness.


As I am claiming that = visually (subjectively) the NHW Project has more neatness, this metric coul= d add objective measurement.-But for now it could still not replace visual = evaluation of image.-

Many thanks!
Cheers,
Raphael Canut
--000000000000ac2c070577f9f587--