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by CASCADE.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([10.64.28.248]) with mapi id 14.03.0468.000; Fri, 15 Nov 2019 02:00:42 -0500 From: Roman Danyliw To: Filippov Alexey , Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "netvc-chairs@ietf.org" , "video-codec@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netvc-requirements@ietf.org" , Mo Zanaty , Elena Alshina Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHVIL2m9AWiZ72osE6epr04IDyWcKaZ1RMwgAw9jwCAwT+q0IAlO5YA Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 07:00:41 +0000 Message-ID: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01E70AC780@marchand> References: <156030268519.5895.7315446863069831893.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8820dcb9272f4de7b3ebb7cba68052f4@huawei.com> <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01B33A0CEA@marathon> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.22.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] 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aW4gYSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZG9jdW1lbnQuICBJIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgZXhwZWN0ZWQgaXQgaW4g dGhlDQo+ID4+IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0dmMtIHRlc3RpbmcNCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKDExKSBTZWN0 aW9uIDQuMS4gIFZQOSBuZWVkcyBhIHJlZmVyZW5jZS4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gKDEyKSBTZWN0aW9u IDYuICBJIGRvbuKAmXQgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBlbnRpcmUgc2VjdGlvbiBpcyBuZWNlc3NhcnkuDQo+ ID4+DQo+ID4+ICgxMykgRWRpdG9yaWFsIE5pdHM6DQo+ID4+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4gIFN0eWxl IG5pdC4gIHMvY2hhcHRlci9zZWN0aW9uLw0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiAtLSBTZWN0aW9uIDQuMS4gVHlw by4gIHMvY29tcHV0Z2VkL2NvbXB1dGVkDQo+ID4+DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 18 08:16:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDA612010E; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:16:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOHXddpey1ni; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2707E12007A; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 959ED12E252316AAB4C9; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:16:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fraeml710-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.59) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:16:17 +0000 Received: from fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.55) by fraeml710-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 17:16:16 +0100 Received: from fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.112.184]) by fraeml706-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.112.184]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 17:16:16 +0100 From: Filippov Alexey To: Roman Danyliw , Adam Roach , The IESG CC: "netvc-chairs@ietf.org" , "video-codec@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netvc-requirements@ietf.org" , Mo Zanaty , Elena Alshina Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHVIL2m9AWiZ72osE6epr04IDyWcKaZ1RMwgAw9jwCAwT+q0IAlO5YAgAWEWnA= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:16:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <156030268519.5895.7315446863069831893.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8820dcb9272f4de7b3ebb7cba68052f4@huawei.com> <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01B33A0CEA@marathon> <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01E70AC780@marchand> In-Reply-To: <359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC01E70AC780@marchand> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.198.51.251] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [video-codec] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:16:23 -0000 SGkgUm9tYW4sDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBSb21hbiBEYW55 bGl3IFttYWlsdG86cmRkQGNlcnQub3JnXSANClNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTUsIDIw MTkgMTA6MDEgQU0NClRvOiBGaWxpcHBvdiBBbGV4ZXkgPEFsZXhleS5GaWxpcHBvdkBodWF3ZWku Y29tPjsgQWRhbSBSb2FjaCA8YWRhbUBub3N0cnVtLmNvbT47IFRoZSBJRVNHIDxpZXNnQGlldGYu 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ZQ0KPj4gPj4gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXR2Yy0gdGVzdGluZw0KPiA+Pj4NCj4+ID4+ICgxMSkgU2Vj dGlvbiA0LjEuICBWUDkgbmVlZHMgYSByZWZlcmVuY2UuDQo+ID4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4gKDEyKSBTZWN0 aW9uIDYuICBJIGRvbuKAmXQgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBlbnRpcmUgc2VjdGlvbiBpcyBuZWNlc3Nhcnku DQo+ID4+Pg0KPiA+Pj4gKDEzKSBFZGl0b3JpYWwgTml0czoNCj4gPj4+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4g IFN0eWxlIG5pdC4gIHMvY2hhcHRlci9zZWN0aW9uLw0KPiA+Pj4NCj4gPj4+IC0tIFNlY3Rpb24g NC4xLiBUeXBvLiAgcy9jb21wdXRnZWQvY29tcHV0ZWQNCj4gPj4+DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Nov 19 09:26:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE03E1200FF for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:26:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id blIqxsQQ-A_3 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:26:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC43112007C for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id q28so17750300lfa.5 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:26:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UnHJ26TYa7SvZ5yGKI42k4kOp1tbvC1LcLD6x5UeVTQ=; b=Z0ntyqJh1kqCkouRjLtspnV19TU/cg0yxZgxhoyyEfETX0tYEwR34fCsiEFfZF8cF6 x4Hn9JrfmdouyMssKZDkLMnZhBwsqCs04iy5rRUkLzPTgw0hETZ0/N6hau7PoarmiMn/ lW92Z3WaVyom3c7Its7piaPH2ftfuvT6kzsRrJ1h5GV1E4lJxgzQ6QL5z4z2tLj+uyI2 1xe7YjqFvX05y0oK8//3w+GkNBnLVhp54cY6SNYSTicRGSjz9H7DgiLV72Bz1WjoeOXL We2bA3tMWMZtFpdwKLLgKypmNfnk4dwLttZyRQ/n/7+cqaiAnBzjfWNmer5X4x3zsqh9 kxYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UnHJ26TYa7SvZ5yGKI42k4kOp1tbvC1LcLD6x5UeVTQ=; b=d4bZN/YeWj4TftOfDzQlBlvD2a5oowoiY86ZibCC2fb5tpaGosdxzIdMzFhSkVuTGT AtL6KwqIcsa2Em9KWOBlmeGEOqDS2P4+a237oA4/y/SlE+PtBeQWU/K/BGdheMzFsCuj Z1qITNFEvPsaBj+wXHPsy7TlO50egIFTNW99qJJDmvbBB6VWntLdF6RPRMcXOjYqUAhH WMTRrfW9kNnIBfpoftzG/j2ftd6rVYniG6T01jpvEeFgxCOy4Pqk3DAqp5EO1GjusKSs LxH+4mXd8Hakk+Za2zdTmpXS2Vuuk6zUeDQigcT8xu3Ok2dQ9oeV5PEd5FehIzcn1Jrz qmXA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0D8rEZ+lqcP6g+JjSB4jzf+NzR9Mtu0N29saP9cJxzGy5u9sL yTC4HQkeZiBTVA/TMJft9lduryuiAVMrT9r10Xl3UQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzZ2+AGFq2RNipoQOWzPBiE5XuinJZL53tfRj+CISGKzrigKqRYtoUD7n2qYRINmM0NV/NyvxBIuyl0KMlLZhA= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c144:: with SMTP id r65mr4889271lff.133.1574184383483; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:26:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Raphael Canut Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:26:10 +0100 Message-ID: To: video-codec@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fd15a70597b65c8c" Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] NHW Project - new test on very high compression X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 17:26:28 -0000 --000000000000fd15a70597b65c8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Just a quick email and hope that I am not polluting this channel as I think now that the IETF is not interested in the NHW Project. Just I have also (personally) contacted some people of this list, and I wanted to give you all an update of the NHW Project via this mailing list rather than individually contacting you on your professional emails. I have started to look into the NHW Project again and notably very high compression, as it is nearly one year now that I did not develop the NHW Project. I stated in my last update that the NHW Project was better than AOM AV1 and HEVC only for high quality, and some people answered me that it was too restrictive and so then not interesting to be only better for high quality.So I have finally retested the NHW Project at -l13 very high compression setting (0.3bpp), and surprisingly on good quality images, I find the NHW Project visually more pleasant than AOM AV1, HEVC, x265 because it has more neatness! -Just a reminder if you want to test the NHW Project, its 3 new entropy coding schemes are not totally optimal for now, I have the fast ideas to improve them, and so we can save 2.5KB per .nhw compressed file, will have to re-work on it...- So actually, I wanted to correct what I said in my previous post, on rather good quality images, the NHW Project is visually better for me than AOM AV1 and HEVC for high quality to very high compression (0.3bpp -> 3bpp), which is more complete and maybe more interesting.AOM AV1 and HEVC remains better for extreme compression. I don't think this will change the absence of interest in the NHW Project, but I wanted to bring however this correction. Many thanks for your attention. Cheers, Raphael Canut --000000000000fd15a70597b65c8c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Just a quick email and h= ope that I am not polluting this channel as I think now that the IETF is no= t interested in the NHW Project.

Just I have also = (personally) contacted some people of this list, and I wanted to give you a= ll an update of the NHW Project via this mailing list rather than individua= lly contacting you on your professional emails.

I = have started to look into the NHW Project again and notably very high compr= ession, as it is nearly one year now that I did not develop the NHW Project= .

I stated in my last update that the NHW Project = was better than AOM AV1 and HEVC only for high quality, and some people ans= wered me that it was too restrictive and so then not interesting to be only= better for high quality.So I have finally retested the NHW Project at -l13= very high compression setting (0.3bpp), and surprisingly on good quality i= mages, I find the NHW Project visually more pleasant than AOM AV1, HEVC, x2= 65 because it has more neatness!

-Just a reminder = if you want to test the NHW Project, its 3 new entropy coding schemes are n= ot totally optimal for now, I have the fast ideas to improve them, and so w= e can save 2.5KB per .nhw compressed file, will have to re-work on it...-

So actually, I wanted to correct what I said in my = previous post, on rather good quality images, the NHW Project is visually b= etter for me than AOM AV1 and HEVC for high quality to very high compressio= n (0.3bpp -> 3bpp), which is more complete and maybe more interesting.AO= M AV1 and HEVC remains better for extreme compression.

=
I don't think this will change the absence of interest in the NHW = Project, but I wanted to bring however this correction.

<= /div>
Many thanks for your attention.
Cheers,
Rapha= el Canut


--000000000000fd15a70597b65c8c-- From nobody Thu Nov 21 08:16:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietf.org Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC13120B37; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 08:16:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: video-codec@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.110.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: video-codec@ietf.org Message-ID: <157435296063.28748.6958333710546641324@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 08:16:00 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10.txt X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:16:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Video Codec WG of the IETF. Title : Video Codec Requirements and Evaluation Methodology Authors : Alexey Filippov Andrey Norkin Jose Roberto Alvarez Filename : draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-11-21 Abstract: This document provides requirements for a video codec designed mainly for use over the Internet. In addition, this document describes an evaluation methodology needed for measuring the compression efficiency to ensure whether the stated requirements are fulfilled or not. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-requirements/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 27 06:51:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: video-codec@ietf.org Delivered-To: video-codec@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C437F120921; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 06:51:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.111.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , adam@nostrum.com, netvc-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netvc-requirements@ietf.org, mzanaty@cisco.com, Mo Zanaty , video-codec@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <157486629276.21930.6053671017548715394.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 06:51:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [video-codec] Document Action: 'Video Codec Requirements and Evaluation Methodology' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10.txt) X-BeenThere: video-codec@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Video codec BoF discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:51:33 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Video Codec Requirements and Evaluation Methodology' (draft-ietf-netvc-requirements-10.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Internet Video Codec Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Barry Leiba. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netvc-requirements/ Technical Summary This document specifies the requirements for a video codec designed mainly for use over the internet, encompassing a wide range of interactive and non-interactive applications. Evaluation methodology is also specified for quantitative requirements such as compression efficiency. Working Group Summary There is broad working group consensus on the document contents, with no notable exceptions. The working group deliberated on whether to publish this as an RFC or keep as a living document during codec candidate development. The deciding factors were the requirements had become stable, and other consortiums (Alliance for Open Media) were also using this document for their codec development activities. Document Quality There have been several reviews of this document from several working group participants, as well as external review from other consortiums (Alliance for Open Media). Andrey Norkin, who also participates in AOM, became a co-author to maintain alignment between working group review and external (AOM) review. The first WGLC had extensive review comments, resulting in Andrey becoming a co-author. The last WGLC had no comments, as the document is mature and stable. Personnel Mo Zanaty is the document shepherd. Adam Roach is the responsible AD.