Subject: Re: Need feedback on new Mini-Redirector tutorial

From: "Wilfred Nilsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:26:09 +0200

If it should not be called Mini Redirector, what should we name this WebDAV 
client?

It seems to be a general confusion about this product. A quick search on 
Google reveals that Mini Redirector seems to be common terminology.

Wikipedia is also using the name Mini Redirector
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebDAV#Windows_XP_and_the_.22mini_redirector.22

Answers.com is using the same name:
http://www.answers.com/topic/webdav?cat=technology

>From: Lee Fisher <[email-masked]>
>To: Wilfred Nilsen <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: Need feedback on new Mini-Redirector tutorial
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:05:35 -0700
>
>I haven't read the doc yet, but I have one comment already. :-)
>
>"Mini-Redirector" is the name of an NT file system driver model. So your 
>title is very misleading, it is interesting for file system developers, but 
>not DAV.
>
>replace the word "Mini-Redirector" with "NT File System Class Driver 
>Model", and try to read it.
>
>Wilfred Nilsen wrote:
>>
>>We have prepared a tutorial for users that would like to map a Windows 
>>Drive to a WebDAV server using Mini-Redirector. The documentation is 
>>designed for our server, but the problems we mention are generic regarding 
>>the Mini-Redirector.
>>
>>http://barracudaserver.com/products/BarracudaDrive/tutorials/mini_redirector.html
>>
>>
>>I would like some comments on this document as to the accuracy of our 
>>Mini-Redirector statements.
>>

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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:37:00 +0200

Wilfred Nilsen wrote:
> 
> 
> If it should not be called Mini Redirector, what should we name this 
> WebDAV client?

I guess it would be more correct to call it "WebDAV Mini Redirector".

> ...

>> "Mini-Redirector" is the name of an NT file system driver model. So 
>> your title is very misleading, it is interesting for file system 
>> developers, but not DAV.

Well, it is interesting for DAV insofar that NT file system driver model 
is used to connect to WebDAV servers.

> ...

Best regards, Julian

---

From: "Konstantin Breu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:12:29 +0200

Generally: I wonder how "important" the mini-redirector is... is it
important to test a webdav server with it? Or is it more likely that users
are using the web folder client?

One point: The documentation could mention the User-Agent-Strings of the
clients (web folder, mini-redirector,...). Or the wikepedia page ;-).

At my systems (Win XP), I was not able to use the mini-redirector (net use *
) so far. When I connect to WebDAV servers, I do not get a drive letter.
Except I use WebDrive, or something like that. But not by using Office,
Internet Explorer (open as web folder) or Windows Explorer (Add Network
Resource).

The documentation says that Web folder client is the old one, and that the
WebDAV Mini-Redirector is the "next generation" client. The reader could
read that as "web folder client old, bad", "mini-redirector, new, good"...
But Microsoft offered an update of the web folder client in May. So it's not
outdated or deprecated. And I wonder in which situations my system would use
the mini-redirector. Well, your documentation only describes the net use *
method for using the mini-redirector... which means that all other "normal"
ways of connection perhaps use the other client. Right?

When I use office with a web folder, it uses LOCK, and it does not create
temporary files (at the webdav server). Only updates the original document
with PUT. When I use office with WebDrive or something like that, it does
not use LOCK (if I remember right), and it creates temporary files, renames
the files, deletes the original one, all at saving. How is the behavior when
using the mini-redirector? I don't like such a behavior, from the
perspective of my server side repository....

So your documentation could write something about usage of Office with
mini-redirector.

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] Im
Auftrag von Wilfred Nilsen
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Juni 2007 16:26
An: [email-masked]
Betreff: Re: Need feedback on new Mini-Redirector tutorial

---

From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:54:55 +0200

> are using the web folder client?

The web folder client is gone in Vista.

> read that as "web folder client old, bad", "mini-redirector, new, good"...

...where the opposite is true :-)

> ways of connection perhaps use the other client. Right?

Hard to say. In XP, IE defaults to mini-redirector, and falls back to 
web folders when the mini redirector fails (that's why hacks like 
appending an ":80" to the host name changes the behaviour).

In Vista, things have changed; but I'm not sure exactly how.

Best regards, Julian

---

From: "Wilfred Nilsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:48:29 +0200

>perspective of my server side repository....

I had never tested this before so I started a WebDAV server on my PC. I then 
mounted a drive by using: net use y: http://localhost/dav/c/

I browsed to a Word document on y: and opened the document by double 
clicking it. I then immediately got another login prompt from Word, meaning 
that Word was not directly using the network drive, but was instead directly 
accessing the WebDAV resource. I am not sure how this is possible. Word must 
somehow notice that the drive is a WebDAV resource?

After opening the document, I inspected the document directly from my hard 
drive, and the name was not changed, nor were there any backup files. 
However, in the mapped network drive, the word document was changed to:
mydoc.docopaquelocktoken:009e3268-467b-eda4-a765-00a0c91e6bf9

Maybe Microsoft tools auto detects a mini redirector mapped drive and 
directly open files as WebDAV resources?

I have not seen this behavior using other tools, which simply opens the 
document as if the drive is a normal hard drive.

-W

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From: "Alex Jalali" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:32:20 -0700 (PDT)

The problem with Mini-Redirector is that it is full of bugs or rather odd
behavors. That it, when you try to use any other webdav server besides
theirs, which I guess their webdav server is called sharepoint. However
this looks more like part of their design and intentional instead of
simple bugs.

If you trace the request/response you will see that is asks for specific
files that would only exist on a windows server. Some of them are .ini
files and other GET requests for .exe which looks like a remote method
call. This is regardless of what the intial response of the server was to
the PROFIND at the root level. So it has a list of inital tasks that it
wants to do and expects the server to do them.

I'm sure after a few more versions it will not even fuction with any other
webdav servers besides windows. like most of their other client/server
products. A waste of time realy if you ask me to even try to follow it's
progress and bugs.

---

From: "Tim Olsen" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:35:16 -0400

> products. A waste of time realy if you ask me to even try to follow it's

Makes me wonder if Microsoft is still trying to "de-commoditize"
webdav and other protocols.

http://www.scripting.com/misc/halloweenMemo.html#_Toc427495768