From owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Mon Jul 19 12:05:01 2004 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (postfix@trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00743 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:05:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id 558219123A; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 2B5889125F; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297179123A for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 16CD059DBF; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:04:56 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@merit.edu Received: from pb-freek.localhost (pb-freek.science.uva.nl [146.50.22.53]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51AA59A79 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pb-freek.localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFEB1EEF2D; Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:04:57 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:04:56 +0200 Subject: mDNS discussion? From: Freek Dijkstra To: Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I got curious into the operating of ZeroConf, so I viewed the zeroconf.org and multicastdns.org sites, read an article or two, noted the controversy with LLMNR, and read draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04. This list seems pretty quiet (or the archive is broken...). That's too bad. I'm just an innocent spectator, not really involved, who just want a "zero configuration" network. I don't care if the solution is called ZeroConf, mDNS, RendezVous, DNS-SD, LLMNR or whatever. I understand that zeroconf involves 3 issues topics: automatic IP allocation, name resolution and service discovery. (I don't understand the last one, Automatic allocation of Multicast Addresses, yet). The first, Link-local interface configuration seems more or less a done deal with the 169.254/16 range and the draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17. The third, service discovery, seems focussed around DNS-SD, UPnP and SLP. I'm probably ignore this (my time is unfortunately limited). My first impression at least is that UPnP has unnecessary overhead, but I really can't judge on DNS-SD and SLP. The second, name resolution seems to focus on either LLMNR or mDNS. What is the current status of mDNS? Should I conclude from the fact that draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04 is a individual submission (and can't thus, according to IETF guidelines become a standards track RFC, but only experimental or informational track), is not an IETF-endorsed activity, but (probably just as important) a community-driven activity? Two questions: is the above correct? In particular, are mDNS and LLMNR compatible, and if not, does mDNS have functions LLMNR not have? Pointers are welcome (I will read them both, but a short note or pointer is appreciated). Second, having just (partially) read draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04, is it useful to give feedback? I found an obvious type (FF0X::FB in section 25 should read FF02::FB), but I'm willing to give more feedback, if appreciated. If so, were to sent it to? To this list, the authors individually, or even rendezvous@lists.apple.com? Kind regards, Freek Dijkstra PS: for the curious and interested: I work for the University of Amsterdam, and have been to IETF 52&53 when I was a student, but have no professional interest anymore. Just personal curiousity. From owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Wed Jul 21 04:56:18 2004 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (postfix@trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA29323 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id 6CA329121B; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 405739121D; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200D79121B for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 0BD3F5A875; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@merit.edu Received: from server30.ukservers.net (server30.ukservers.net [217.10.138.207]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C8D5A863 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:56:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aldebaran (213-152-45-185.dsl.eclipse.net.uk [213.152.45.185]) by server30.ukservers.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29F31BB451; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:56:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <008b01c46f00$8e4dc100$0468fea9@aldebaran> From: "Philip Nye" To: "Freek Dijkstra" , References: Subject: Re: mDNS discussion? Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:56:04 +0100 Organization: Engineering Arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Freek, The Zeroconf group and this list has been dedicated almost entirely to = getting the IPv4 Link Local address assignment specification done and = there has been little discussion for a long time of the other topics you = mention - in general each of the specs you mention probably has it's own = list (where you will probably see many of the same people). Other earlier objectives of the zero-config group were dropped either = because of lack of progress or because they were being covered = elsewhere. For comparison of mDNS vs LLMNR or of SLP vs DNS-SD vs UPnP you are best = looking not just at the specs and the appropriate lists, but at who is = promoting or actually using them and in what circumstances and trying to = assess the reasons (both technical and commercial) for that choice. Philip ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Freek Dijkstra" To: Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: mDNS discussion? > Hi, >=20 > I got curious into the operating of ZeroConf, so I viewed the = zeroconf.org > and multicastdns.org sites, read an article or two, noted the = controversy > with LLMNR, and read draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04. >=20 > This list seems pretty quiet (or the archive is broken...). That's too = bad. > I'm just an innocent spectator, not really involved, who just want a = "zero > configuration" network. I don't care if the solution is called = ZeroConf, > mDNS, RendezVous, DNS-SD, LLMNR or whatever. >=20 > I understand that zeroconf involves 3 issues topics: automatic IP > allocation, name resolution and service discovery. (I don't understand = the > last one, Automatic allocation of Multicast Addresses, yet). >=20 > The first, Link-local interface configuration seems more or less a = done deal > with the 169.254/16 range and the = draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17. >=20 > The third, service discovery, seems focussed around DNS-SD, UPnP and = SLP. > I'm probably ignore this (my time is unfortunately limited). My first > impression at least is that UPnP has unnecessary overhead, but I = really > can't judge on DNS-SD and SLP. >=20 > The second, name resolution seems to focus on either LLMNR or mDNS. = What is > the current status of mDNS? Should I conclude from the fact that > draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04 is a individual submission (and = can't > thus, according to IETF guidelines become a standards track RFC, but = only > experimental or informational track), is not an IETF-endorsed = activity, but > (probably just as important) a community-driven activity? >=20 > Two questions: is the above correct? In particular, are mDNS and LLMNR > compatible, and if not, does mDNS have functions LLMNR not have? = Pointers > are welcome (I will read them both, but a short note or pointer is > appreciated). >=20 > Second, having just (partially) read = draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns-04, > is it useful to give feedback? I found an obvious type (FF0X::FB in = section > 25 should read FF02::FB), but I'm willing to give more feedback, if > appreciated. If so, were to sent it to? To this list, the authors > individually, or even rendezvous@lists.apple.com? >=20 > Kind regards, > Freek Dijkstra >=20 > PS: for the curious and interested: I work for the University of = Amsterdam, > and have been to IETF 52&53 when I was a student, but have no = professional > interest anymore. Just personal curiousity. From owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Wed Jul 21 12:33:55 2004 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (postfix@trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01882 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id B2E2D91235; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 62F099123F; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44AE291235 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 229CF59E12; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@merit.edu Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (nwkea-mail-2.sun.com [192.18.42.14]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4DF59D78 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hs-ehdb03-01.Germany.Sun.COM ([129.157.142.201]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6LGXe0R025193 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:33:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from suncc41 (suncc41 [129.157.142.41]) by hs-ehdb03-01.Germany.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id i6LGXd3r014406 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:33:39 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:34:27 +0200 (MEST) From: Erik Guttman X-Sender: erikg@suncc41 Reply-To: Erik Guttman To: zeroconf@merit.edu Subject: IPv4 LL to RFC - ZEROCONF WG to close Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Precedence: bulk The latest draft (17) of the specification has been accepted as a proposed standard and has entered the RFC editor's queue. The official announcement will appear shortly. I want to thank the numerous working group contributors, past and present, who have both improved the document and engaged in a lively and enlightening discussion about the nature and impact of local address configuration. I have learned a great deal and am extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to coordinate this effort over the past five years. I extend special appreciation to Stuart Cheshire. His initial efforts to establish this protocol proved decisive for our understanding and design. The document as it stands today remains largely intact from his initial careful crafting. He has assured that work on additional caveats and context remain workable and consistent with the initial vision. His fastidious contributions are apparent throughout. It has been a pleasure and a privilege to work with Stuart through this entire process. Regarding the matter of the intellectual property claim from Apple: The patent expires this August. I therefore suggest that this should not present a concern to implementors of the standard. I leave thorough and legally cogent analysis of this statement to lawyers, however. I hope that you share my opinion that the "Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local Addresses" is ready for general adoption as an IETF proposed standard. This seemed to be the prevalent opinion on the WG mailing list when the matter was last discussed. Pending any ongoing discussion of the intellectual property associated with the specification over the next week, I will request that the ZEROCONF WG be concluded. Thanks again for all your hard work and congratulations for seeing this important project through to completion. All the best in your future endeavors! Erik Guttman From owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Thu Jul 29 11:38:54 2004 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (postfix@trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18989 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id A51FF91205; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 74C8091207; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FFA91205 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 576215A2FE; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@merit.edu Received: from main.uucpssh.org (main.uucpssh.org [212.27.33.224]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B55ED5A2E6 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 11:38:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by main.uucpssh.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF5E5ADE6 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:37:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: by main.uucpssh.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 071795AE07; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 17:37:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.yaubi.com (Postfix, from userid 81) id 95AF111232E; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:39:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from 192.168.0.10 (SquirrelMail authenticated user yoann) by www.yaubi.com with HTTP; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:39:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <34798.192.168.0.10.1091115540.squirrel@www.yaubi.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:39:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: IPv4 LL to RFC - ZEROCONF WG to close From: "Yoann Aubineau" To: zeroconf@merit.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Erik Guttman a dit : > > The latest draft (17) of the specification has been accepted as a > proposed standard and has entered the RFC editor's queue. The official > announcement will appear shortly. Could someone tell me how long it would normaly take for that draft to be accepted as a standard? Will the RFC be announced to that list? Regards, -- Yoann From owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Thu Jul 29 12:15:54 2004 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu (trapdoor.merit.edu [198.108.1.26]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21764 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) id 444A591208; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56) id 15F2791209; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:14:50 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@trapdoor.merit.edu Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41]) by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 181C991208 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) id 063A65A2E6; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:14:49 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: zeroconf@merit.edu Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18955A1C5 for ; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hs-ehdb03-01.Germany.Sun.COM ([129.157.142.201]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i6TGETJ6026903; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (vpn-129-150-116-26.UK.Sun.COM [129.150.116.26]) by hs-ehdb03-01.Germany.Sun.COM (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id i6TGEP3r004943; Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:14:27 +0200 (MEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:14:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Erik Guttman X-X-Sender: erik@skin.local Reply-To: erik.guttman@sun.com To: Yoann Aubineau Cc: zeroconf@merit.edu Subject: Re: IPv4 LL to RFC - ZEROCONF WG to close In-Reply-To: <34798.192.168.0.10.1091115540.squirrel@www.yaubi.com> Message-ID: References: <34798.192.168.0.10.1091115540.squirrel@www.yaubi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-zeroconf@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Yoann, On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Yoann Aubineau wrote: > Could someone tell me how long it would normaly take for that draft to > be accepted as a standard? Will the RFC be announced to that list? The draft has been accepted as a standard already, by the IESG. The document is now in the RFC editor's queue. Please see http://www.rfc-editor.org/queue.html - search for draft-ietf-zeroconf-ipv4-linklocal-17.txt From prior experience, I believe the RFC won't come out for at least 3-6 months. There's a lot ahead of our doc in the queue. Regards, Erik